Igniting Imagination: Leadership Ministry: Recent Episodes
TMF & Wesleyan Investive
Igniting Imagination is a podcast to spark the spirit within you, from Wesleyan Investive and Texas Methodist Foundation. We believe every movement for change starts with conversation. We hope the conversations in these episodes might invite you into new perspectives and possibilities, inspire you with an idea, give you insight about your next faithful step…and further equip you to engage in the conversations in your context that can lead to deep change. This season, we are sharing with you conversations with the inaugural class of Tom Locke Innovative Leader Award winners.
Kenda Creasy Dean reminds us in her new book, Innovating for Love, that we don’t create new things for the sake of change, for innovation’s sake, but rather so that we can love better. We are always finding new ways to love our neighbors in the ways Jesus calls us to love. Carlos Huerta, the Executive Director of the Center for Community Transformation in Fresno, certainly embodies Kenda’s notion. A California-based entrepreneur who turned his attention and life’s work to loving people well – listening to their stories and sharing his own, giving space for building connections, community, and voice. Carlos reminds us that innovation begins with paying attention. Wow! Could it be that simple? What might that look like in our own congregations, families, neighborhoods? What are we paying attention to? What are we noticing? Who might we partner with in our community to love better? We hope Carlos’ story sparks a new conversation and perhaps a new idea for you as you lean into God’s call for this season of your life and ministry. Please share with friends and colleagues and leave us a review. Thanks for listening!
In this conversation, you’ll hear:
- Carlos’ rootedness in Fresno and his inspired journey that led him to become the Executive Director for the Center for Community Transformation.
- Why “doing life together” is so central to innovation.
- How the theology of imago dei” has shaped Carlos’ leadership.
About Carlos Huerta
Carlos is the Executive Director of the Center for Community Transformation, overseeing programs in entrepreneurship, financial literacy, ministry leadership training for Spanish-speaking leaders and soft-skills job-training. Carlos holds a Bachelors in Social Work from Fresno Pacific University, a Masters in Organizational Leadership from Michigan State university and an MBA from Fresno Pacific University.
Read about Carlos’ organization, the Center for Community Transformation: https://www.fresno.edu/departments/center-community-transformation
Read all about the Locke Innovative Leader Award on our website: https://wesleyanimpactpartners.org/locke-leaders
To view videos of podcast episodes, please go to the Igniting Imagination YouTube.
Subscribe to our Learning and Innovation emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
Pastah J, as his friends and parishioners affectionately call him, is a remarkable testament to the notion that innovating is what happens when you love the people you are with. We often make innovation out to be the next, big, creative, tech, cool thing when really it's about figuring out how to love our neighbors better and how to more deeply and faithfully root ourselves in Jesus' call. It's ministry. It's courageously saying YES. It's never going it alone. It's tenaciously pursuing possibilities. It's being a neighbor and loving the neighborhood. We pray this conversation sparks a new idea or even a new courage in you and your ministry. If it does, please share with friends and colleagues and leave us a review. Thanks for listening!
In this conversation, you’ll hear:
- Pastah J’s relational approach to ministry with the Englewood and Lawndale communities in Chicago.
- How Pastah J organized bringing Whole Foods into the neighborhood on the neighborhood’s terms.
- Pastah J’s vision is to destroy Saviorism in congregations and reclaim neighboring neglected neighborhoods.
- Discussion of the quote from Benjamin Mays, “The love of God and love of humanity is one love” and why it beautifully articulates Pastah J’s ministry.
About Jonathan Brooks
Rev. Jonathan Brooks, or Pastah J, as he is affectionately known, is a lifelong resident of Chicago, IL, and serves as the lead pastor at Lawndale Christian Community Church in the North Lawndale Neighborhood. He is also the board chair of the Parish Collective. He previously served as the senior pastor at Canaan Community Church in the West Englewood neighborhood for fifteen years. As an educator on many different levels and a firm believer in investing in your local community, Jonathan has a deep desire to impress this virtue on the students and young people in his congregation, classroom, and community. His ministry focuses on youth development, holistic health, college scholarships, art and music training as well as restorative justice practices and care for the incarcerated and their families.
Pastah J is a sought-after speaker, writer, artist, and community activist. He has contributed to numerous blogs, articles and books, and his most recent book is Church Forsaken: PracticingPresence in Neglected Neighborhoods.
For more information about Jonathan “Pastah J” Brooks, visit: pastahj.com.
Pastah J is the Lead Pastor of Lawndale Christian Community Church in Chicago: http://www.lawndalechurch.org/
Read all about the Locke Innovative Leader Award on our website: https://wesleyanimpactpartners.org/locke-leaders
To view videos of podcast episodes, please go to the Igniting Imagination YouTube.
Subscribe to our Learning and Innovation emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
Our Locke Innovative Leaders offer a powerful picture of what is possible for the church. They don’t just see a need, they see great potential that exists in that need, and they respond with the next faithful step, always gathering others to help create and build. It’s remarkably consistent. Moy Mendez, a pastor in Chicago and the Executive Director of the Hope Center in Blue Island, is a great example – he didn’t just see the needs of his community; he saw the potential, and he leaned in, offering a platform for the giftedness of his neighbors. Today, Hope Center employs, engages, and trains neighbors in agriculture, auto mechanics, technology, and the arts, building a culture of hope and well-being. Lives are being transformed! We can’t wait for you to meet Moy and hear his story! We pray it sparks an imagination in you for what is possible and if it does, please share with friends and colleagues and leave us a review. Thanks for listening!
In this conversation, you’ll hear:
- Co-host Rev. Dr. Kenda Creasy Dean describe what it means to her to be named an innovative leader.
- Moy Mendez share his calling to create a platform to empower people
- Why Moy believes the Hope Center is the ‘modern look of evangelism’
- How Moy experienced “innovating for love” as a child and how he innovates for love today.
About Moy Mendez
Moy Mendez is a dedicated and visionary leader, serving as the Executive Director of the Hope Center, a dynamic non-profit organization committed to catalyzing community economic development. His journey is a testament to the transformative power of faith, education, and a deep-seated commitment to giving back to the community that shaped him.
Born and raised in a close-knit community, Moy's early years instilled a profound sense of responsibility and a genuine desire to make a positive impact. His unwavering belief in the potential of individuals to create change led him to establish the Hope Center—a platform aimed at equipping the next generation of entrepreneurs in diverse fields, including agriculture, technology, and auto mechanics.
Moy's faith has been a guiding force throughout his life, serving as the cornerstone of his personal values and professional pursuits. Grounded in his strong convictions, he has seamlessly intertwined his spiritual beliefs with his career aspirations. This harmonious blend has not only enriched his journey but has also inspired those around him to find purpose and fulfillment in their own endeavors.
Education has been a cornerstone of Moy's personal growth and professional success. He holds an Associates Degree in Computer Programming from Moraine Valley Community College, a Bachelor's Degree in Theology from Christian Life College, and a Master's Degree in Philosophy of Religion from Trinity International University. Moy enjoys traveling with his wife Eva and dog Oreo in his free time to state parks and beach fronts.
For more information about Hope Center, visit: https://hopecenter.tv/
Read all about the Locke Innovative Leader Award on our website: https://wesleyanimpactpartners.org/locke-leaders
To view videos of podcast episodes, please go to the Igniting Imagination YouTube.
Subscribe to our Learning and Innovation emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
We are so excited about this season of the Igniting Imagination Podcast as Rev. Dr. Kenda Creasy Dean and Rev. Lisa Greenwood have conversations with four exceptional, innovative faith leaders who are profoundly influencing the way we think about the church’s mission and witness. It’s stunning and inspiring! Our guest this week is Rev. Dr. Heber Brown, III. Heber’s story, the story of how the Black church he served in Baltimore birthed a network of hundreds of churches and black farmers to feed thousands of people with healthy, fresh food, is remarkable. Truly. Nothing short of the powerful work of God! We pray Heber’s story will ignite a new conversation, a new way of thinking, a new imagination in you.
In this conversation, you’ll hear:
- Co-host Rev. Dr. Kenda Creasy Dean shares the qualities of innovative leaders she’s observed.
- Heber’s God-sized vision for a small plot of land on his church property.
- How networking allowed something small to have an outsized impact.
- Heber’s call to a mission, not a church.
About Rev. Dr. Heber Brown, III
Rev. Dr. Heber M. Brown, III has been a catalyst for personal transformation and social change for more than 20 years. For nearly 14 years, he served as pastor of a Baptist church in Baltimore, where he saw and personally experienced the impacts of food apartheid. This helped to inspire him to launch the Black Church Food Security Network which advances food security and food sovereignty by co-creating Black food ecosystems anchored by nearly 250 Black congregations in partnership with Black farmers and other food justice stakeholders. He serves on the board of Bread for the World and has garnered numerous awards including an Ashoka Fellowship. He is the author of the forthcoming book Nothing More Sacred: Radical Stories of Black Church Faith, Food and Freedom.
For more information about Rev. Dr. Brown, visit his website: https://www.heberbrown.com/
For more information about the Black Church Food Security Network, visit: https://blackchurchfoodsecurity.net/
Read all about the Locke Innovative Leader Award on our website: https://wesleyanimpactpartners.org/locke-leaders
To view videos of podcast episodes, please go to the Igniting Imagination YouTube.
Subscribe to our Learning and Innovation emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
Have you enjoyed Season 10 of our Igniting Imagination Podcast as much as we have?! We started with Margaret Wheatley and we are ending the season with two remarkable innovative leaders, who also happen to be part of our leadership learning and innovation team, Rev. Kathi McShane and Derrick Scott, III. If you haven’t been listening, this conversation can guide you toward the episodes that most speak to you – it’s a great place to start! If you’ve been listening along the way, we hope you’ll find it helpful to pull on the threads that name the realities we are facing today and how we claim our leadership in the midst. It’s not an easy season, but I’m convinced we have an opportunity to lead in new ways that get us a bit closer to the world that God imagines.
In this conversation, you’ll hear:
- Leading in a time of polarization.
- The importance of naming and understanding ambiguous loss.
- More responses to Wheatley’s “addicted to hope”.
Derrick Scott, III is the associate director of learning and innovation for Wesleyan Impact Partners. Derrick has been leading ministry in the collegiate and young adult context for over 20 years.
In addition to his work with Wesleyan Impact Partners, Derrick currently serves as the creative producer of Studio Wesley, a ministry that’s exploring how to serve college-aged young adults in the digital space. He is also the co-lay leader of the Florida Conference of the UMC. He is passionate about empowering a new generation of leaders and laborers who will live as disciples of Jesus Christ to transform the world.
He has an undergraduate degree in history, is a Cicerone Certified Beer Server, and is a textbook introvert. He loves eating sushi, flying on Delta, and pouring craft beer. He lives in Jacksonville, Florida with his Chihuahua-mix dog Winston and Bengal cat Julian. Most importantly, he hates mayonnaise.
Rev. Kathleen McShane is the director of learning and innovation for Wesleyan Impact Partners. Kathi retired from active ministry as an ordained Elder in the California-Nevada Conference of the United Methodist Church in 2022. She led four congregations and served for eight years as the vice president for Institutional Advancement at Pacific School of Religion. Before attending seminary and beginning her life in ministry, she was a civil litigator, practicing law in the San Francisco Bay Area.
In her final appointment in Los Altos, California, Kathi co-founded the Changemaker Initiative, which is a small national movement of churches committed to empowering lay people to become compassion-driven changemakers like Jesus. That work has led her toward multiple projects that are re-imagining leadership for the church of the future. She is the co-author, with Rabbi Elan Babchuck, of Picking Up the Pieces: Leadership after Empire.
Kathi lives on a vineyard on the Central Coast of California.
To view videos of podcast episodes, please go to the Igniting Imagination YouTube.
Subscribe to our Learning and Innovation emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
In this week’s episode of the Igniting Imagination Podcast, we talk with professor Eric Barreto who invites us into a biblical imagination for our work together. We love how he reminds us to keep coming back to the good news of Jesus. Yes! That is what inspires us, forms us, equips and animates us! We hope this conversation gives you a new imagination for what’s possible and if it does, please share with friends and leave us a review! Thank you for listening!
In this conversation, you’ll hear:
- How childhood experiences shaped Eric’s understanding of faith and the church.
- The value of a seminary education today.
- Biblical wisdom for this time of polarization.
- The gift of Hispanic and Latino perspectives in biblical and theological studies.
About Eric Barreto
Dr. Eric D. Barreto is the Weyerhaeuser Associate Professor of New Testament at Princeton Theological Seminary. He holds a BA in religion from Oklahoma Baptist University, an MDiv from Princeton Seminary, and a PhD in New Testament from Emory University. Prior to coming to Princeton Theological Seminary, he served as associate professor of New Testament at Luther Seminary, and also taught as an adjunct professor at the Candler School of Theology and McAfee School of Theology.
As a Baptist minister, Barreto has pursued scholarship for the sake of the church, and he regularly writes for and teaches in faith communities around the country. He has also been a leader in the Hispanic Theological Initiative Consortium, a national, ecumenical, and inter-constitutional consortium comprised of some of the top seminaries, theological schools, and religion departments in the country. He is a member of the Society of Biblical Literature and the National Association of Baptist Professors of Religion.
Visit Eric’s website at: https://www.ericbarreto.com/
To view videos of podcast episodes, please go to the Igniting Imagination YouTube.
Subscribe to our Learning and Innovation emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
Dr. Randy Woodley, professor, scholar, farmer, and indigenous American, speaks of indigenous ways of leading that seem, on the surface, to be counter-intuitive, and yet as we sit with them, we see how resonate with Jesus’ teachings they are. We are so curious what you think as you listen. What do we have to learn from indigenous cultures about leading in this season? What old patterns do we need to let go of, and new postures embrace? Where are you finding yourself renewed in your leadership and in your spirit? As always, we pray this conversation will spark a new imagination for you and for your ministry and if it does, please share with a colleague and leave us a review.
In this conversation, you’ll hear:
- Difficult truths related to eco-justice, diversity, racial justice.
- The gifts of indigenous spirituality and indigenous worldview.
- Why becoming rooted in the earth is essential.
- A decolonized approach to Christianity and church leadership.
About Randy Woodley
Dr. Randy Woodley addresses a variety of issues concerning American culture, faith, justice, race, our relationship with the earth, and Indigenous realities. He recently retired as Distinguished Professor of Faith and Culture and Director of Intercultural and Indigenous Studies at Portland Seminary, Portland Oregon. His expertise has been sought in national venues as diverse as Time Magazine, The New York Times, Politifact, Christianity Today, The Huffington Post, and Planet Drum: A Voice for Bioregional, Sustainability, Education, and Culture.
Dr. Woodley earned a Ph.D. in Intercultural Studies and remains active in ongoing discussions in a variety of areas concerning spirituality, earth-care, racial and ethnic identity, diversity, peace, social justice, eco-justice, interreligious dialogue, Indigenous studies, agriculture, and spirituality.
Randy and his wife Edith, are the founders of Eloheh Indigenous Center for Earth Justice and Eloheh Farm & Seeds. Through Eloheh they invite people to a new relationship with Creation and model sustainable farming practices and Earth justice. You can learn more about their work here. And more about their Cultural Consultant work at Sho-Kee here.
Randy’s most recent book, Becoming Rooted: One Hundred Days of Reconnecting with Earth is available here.
To view videos of podcast episodes, please go to the Igniting Imagination YouTube.
Subscribe to our Learning and Innovation emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
This week’s episode of Igniting Imagination is a bit of a departure for us – for the first time, our guest is a politician! Yep, State Representative James Talarico. We decided that if we are going to do a season on Facing Reality and Claiming Leadership, we ought to directly address the polarization in our country – and where better than Texas politics!?!
James Talarico, a lifelong Christian, active church member, and student at Austin Presbyterian Seminary while serving in the Texas House of Representatives, lives his deep faith in startling ways in his legislative work. If you find yourself disagreeing with his stances, then all the more, he wants to draw you into conversation and even collaboration. He lives a very biblical and profoundly challenging understanding of what it means to love your neighbor. We look forward to hearing your reactions. We pray it will spark new conversations for you, perhaps a new insight into God’s call for you or your church.
In this conversation, you’ll hear:
- Why James is in seminary and how he navigates faith and politics
- Why polarization is the greatest challenge of our time and how people of faith can respond
- The threat of Christian nationalism to the country and church
- How to lead in an environment of constant criticism
- Stories of hope and making a difference at the local level
About James Talarico
Representative James Talarico is a former public school teacher first elected to serve in the Texas House of Representatives in 2018. Born in Round Rock, Rep. Talarico attended Wells Branch Elementary School and graduated from McNeil High School before earning degrees from The University of Texas at Austin and Harvard University. After college, he taught middle school on the Westside of San Antonio. He currently sits on the Public Education Committee, the Juvenile Justice and Family Issues Committee, and the Calendars Committee.
As a former teacher, Rep. Talarico has worked to ensure all Texas students have access to a quality education. In his first term, he helped write the most significant reform to the state’s school finance system in 20 years. He went on to pass major legislation to open up millions of dollars for student mental health and character education programs, establish the first-ever cap on Pre-K class sizes to reduce student-to-teacher ratios, and improve the quality and affordability of child care. As a type 1 diabetic, Rep. Talarico also passed historic legislation to cap insulin copays in Texas at $25 a month and import low-cost prescription drugs from Canada — dramatically reducing prescription drug costs for Texas patients. In addition, he passed laws to combat teen fentanyl overdoses, ban reality TV policing, increase accountability within the Texas Juvenile Justice Department, and give all incarcerated minors in Texas the opportunity to earn a high school diploma.
For these accomplishments, Talarico was named one of the Top 10 Best Legislators by Texas Monthly magazine.
Article by Adam Wren referenced in the episode can be accessed here.
Talarico’s websites are here and here.
To view videos of podcast episodes, please go to the Igniting Imagination YouTube.
Subscribe to our Learning and Innovation emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
Rev. Dr. Dave Odom, who leads Leadership Education at Duke Divinity, works with hundreds of congregations and leaders from multiple faith traditions across the country. As such, he has a unique vantage point to view the realities of the church and what is needed for leaders today. In this week’s podcast episode, Dave shares that a new kind of support is needed for the work of ministry today – specifically, catalytic leaders and organizations (even congregations!) who are discovering and supporting leaders and ministries doing God’s transformative work in the world. Catalysts multiply the witness! May this conversation be catalytic in your work. May it spark a new imagination and perhaps a new collaboration that multiplies your impact. If it does, we hope you’ll let us know. Email us, share with friends, leave us a review. Thanks for listening!
In this conversation, you’ll hear:
- The challenges of polarization in the church today and what leaders can do.
- What catalytic leadership is and why is it so important.
- Why being a healthy church is not the point.
- A story about a congregation that gives Dave hope for the church.
About Dave Odom
Rev. Dr. Dave Odom joined Duke Divinity School in August 2007 to launch Leadership Education at Duke Divinity and now oversees all of its programs and publications, including Faith & Leadership. He regularly teaches and facilitates events and both writes and solicits content for Faith & Leadership. Since 2014, he has directed Alban at Duke Divinity School.
In addition, Odom supervises select initiatives at Duke Divinity School, where he serves as an associate dean and consulting professor. He teaches courses on strategy and leadership along with consulting on program and staff development.
Before coming to Duke, Odom was the founder and president of the Center for Congregational Health in Winston-Salem, North Carolina, which supported healthy communities of faith through consultation, leadership development, interim ministry training and vocational discernment.
For more than 20 years, he has been active in the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship. He is an ordained Baptist pastor and graduate of Furman University, Southeastern Baptist Theological Seminary and Princeton Theological Seminary.
To learn more about Leadership Education, visit their website: https://leadership.divinity.duke.edu/
To view videos of podcast episodes, please go to the Igniting Imagination YouTube.
Subscribe to our Learning and Innovation emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
To view videos of podcast episodes, please go to the Igniting Imagination YouTube.
The Rev. Dr. Amy Butler is a master at facing reality and claiming leadership. In her newly released memoir, Beautiful and Terrible Things: Faith, Doubt, and Discovering a Way Back to Each Other, she weaves together what is real and messy and hard with what is true and hopeful and redemptive, reminding us that the journey of faith is inextricably all those things. In our conversation with Pastor Amy, we get to experience a powerful leader, whose vulnerability and honesty offer a witness of the kind of leadership our beautiful (and terrible) world needs today. We hope you find it inspiring as you seek to navigate and lead in this season! If this podcast is meaningful to you, please share with friends and colleagues and leave us a review. Thanks for listening!
In this conversation, you’ll hear:
- Why Amy chose “Beautiful and Terrible Things” as her theme and book title
- The beautiful and terrible things present in the church today
- The connection between vulnerability and leadership and how Amy has leaned into vulnerability
- Amy’s vision for Invested Faith, the philanthropic initiative she founded
- An excerpt from Amy’s book
About Amy Butler
Rev. Dr. Amy Butler is the founder of the philanthropic initiative Invested Faith. She previously served as the first woman senior minister of The Riverside Church in New York City, senior pastor of Calvary Baptist Church (D.C.), associate pastor at St. Charles Avenue Baptist Church in New Orleans, and intentional interim minister at National City Christian Church (D.C.). Pastor Amy holds degrees from Baylor University, the International Baptist Theological Seminary, and Wesley Theological Seminary. She's a mother of three children and currently lives in Hawaii.
Amy Butler’s website: https://www.pastoramy.com/
Invested Faith’s website: https://www.investedfaith.org/
Amy’s book is Beautiful and Terrible Things: Faith, Doubt, and Discovering a Way Back to Each Other.
To view videos of podcast episodes, please go to the Igniting Imagination YouTube.
Subscribe to our Learning and Innovation emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
If you are having conversations about innovation in the church, chances are that Andy Root’s name has come up. Writing books like, When the Church Stops Working and The Church After Innovation and The Pastor in a Secular Age, Dr. Andrew Root is leading the way in helping leaders to name and face current reality and lean into new ways of leading. What we love in Andy’s work, and it comes through in this episode, is that he doesn’t turn to expected solutions or ways of behaving. Deeply grounded in scripture and our shared Christian narrative, he invites us to consider a counter-intuitive way of showing up. As always, it is our great hope that this podcast will spark a new imagination within you, perhaps a new conversation and a new way of leading in this season and if it does, please share with friends and leave us a review! Thanks for listening.
In this conversation, you’ll hear:
- Why the church is in crisis and why the problem we think is the problem isn’t really the problem
- What the Accelerating Age is and what it means for the church
- Excavating the idea of innovation and entrepreneurship
- Andy’s questions and concerns about innovation in the church
- The question every church leader should be asking right now
About Dr. Andy Root
Andrew Root (Ph.D., Princeton Theological Seminary) is the Carrie Olson Baalson professor of youth and family ministry at Luther Seminary in St. Paul, Minnesota.
Andrew Root is the Carrie Olson Baalson Professor of Youth and Family Ministry at Luther Seminary, USA. He writes and researches in areas of theology, ministry, culture and younger generations. His most recent books are Churches and the Crisis of Decline (Baker, 2022), The Congregation in a Secular Age (Baker, 2021), The End of Youth Ministry? (Baker, 2020), The Pastor in a Secular Age: Ministry to People Who No Longer Need God (Baker, 2019), Faith Formation in a Secular Age (Baker, 2017), and Exploding Stars, Dead Dinosaurs, and Zombies: Youth Ministry in the Age of Science (Fortress Press, 2018).
For more information about Dr. Andy Root, visit his website at www.andrewroot.org
You can view Andy’s video on the Church in the Accelerating Age here.
To view videos of podcast episodes, please go to the Igniting Imagination YouTube.
Subscribe to our Learning and Innovation emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
Our guest is Dr. Aaron Kuecker, President of Trinity Christian College in Chicago. We can’t wait for you to hear what they are doing at Trinity Christian to tend to the wellbeing of their students. It is intentional and generous and nothing short of life-changing – from their approach to the funding model to how they are protecting the mid-week “Wellbeing Wednesday.” You can’t help but think: What if all campuses were trying similar things? How would this generation be shaped for good? Perhaps we might all be a bit more grounded and generous and less despairing. We are excited for you to meet Aaron and hear how truth-telling, transparency and a commitment to wellbeing is transforming individual lives, a campus, and a community. We hope it sparks a new imagination in you for what is possible in this season and if it does, let us know! Share with friends and leave us a review.
In this conversation, you’ll hear:
- Challenges college campuses are facing today
- How Christian theology led to prioritizing student wellbeing
- Exploring a new economic model for higher education
- Leading an established institution through significant change
About Aaron Kuecker
Dr. Aaron Kuecker serves as president of Trinity Christian College. Before assuming this role, he had served as the College’s provost since July 2016. His work as interim president and provost represent a sort of homecoming to the Trinity community. From 2008-2013, Kuecker was associate professor of theology and director of education at the College. In the intervening years, he served at LeTourneau University in Longview, Texas, most recently as dean of the School of Theology & Vocation, professor of theology, and director of the Honors College.
Kuecker’s academic work has largely focused on identity formation in the early Christian church, with an emphasis on New Testament studies and biblical theology. He received his Ph.D. in New Testament studies from the University of St. Andrews in Scotland; his M.Div., from Western Theological Seminary; and his B.A. in political science from Central College. Before earning his Ph.D., Kuecker served as associate pastor and youth pastor at Community Reformed Church in Zeeland, MI.
For more information about Trinity Christian College, visit their website at https://www.trnty.edu/
To view videos of podcast episodes, please go to the Igniting Imagination YouTube.
Subscribe to our Learning and Innovation emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
This conversation with Dr. Pauline Boss, author of Ambiguous Loss: Learning to Live with Unresolved Grief, is hope-filled, encouraging, validating, and motivating. Her insights manage to be both practical and weighty. She reminds us that we live in a mastery culture – that is, we want to be in control, have the answers, and win – which is, of course, a myth, so we are a nation (yes, a whole nation!) of unresolved grief, needing to name our profound sense of loss in the face of so much uncertainty. Wow! Think about the implications for the church – the essential role we can play in stewarding grief today, navigating uncertainty, residing in hope. This conversation feels like holy ground. We hope it ignites a new imagination for your leadership, your relationships, your way of being in the world.
In this conversation, you’ll hear:
- How Dr. Boss came to coin the term “ambiguous loss”
- Loss vs. Grief in our culture
- Learning to sit with loss and unanswered questions
- Ambiguous loss in congregations / leading congregations to grieve ambiguous loss
- Why closure is a myth and what that means for how we live and lead
About Dr. Pauline Boss
Pauline Boss, PhD, Professor Emeritus at the University of Minnesota is a Fellow in the American Psychological Association and the American Association for Marriage and Family Therapy and a former president of the National Council on Family Relations. She practiced family therapy for over 40 years.
With her groundbreaking work in research and practice, Dr. Boss coined the term ambiguous loss in the 1970s and since then, developed and tested the theory of ambiguous loss, a guide for working with families of the missing, physically or psychologically. She summarized this research and clinical work in her widely acclaimed book Ambiguous Loss: Learning to Live with Unresolved Grief (Harvard University Press, 2000).
In addition to over 100 peer reviewed academic articles and chapters, her other books include Loss, Trauma, and Resilience: Therapeutic Work with Ambiguous Loss (W. W. Norton, 2006) and Loving Someone Who Has Dementia: How to Find Hope While Coping with Stress and Grief (Jossey-Bass, 2011). Her most recent book is The Myth of Closure: Ambiguous Loss in a Time of Pandemic and Change (W. W. Norton, 2022). Her work is known around the world wherever ambiguous losses occur, and her books have been translated 23 times into various languages. As of 2022, Dr. Boss was granted Emeritus status as a longtime family therapist, and, as of 2023, Emeritus status in the American Association for Marriage and Family Therapy.
For more information about Dr. Boss, her writings, and the ambiguous loss online training program, see www.ambiguousloss.com.
To view videos of podcast episodes, please go to the Igniting Imagination YouTube.
Subscribe to our Learning and Innovation emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
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Jump into 2024 with a special Bonus Episode of Igniting Imagination! We have invited two of our most frequent (and beloved) guests, Rev. Rachel Billups and Rev. Matt Rawle, to engage with Carey Nieuwhof’s list of 7 Church Trends That Will Disrupt 2024. Matt and Rachel reflect that this year’s list seems particularly spot on. From the endangered stable church to the normative adoption of AI, these trends are real and happening now. Throughout the conversation, they offer practical nuggets – things they are trying in the midst of so much change and challenge and possibility. Thanks for listening and sharing our podcast with colleagues and friends! We hope this conversation inspires and even provokes you to new conversations and imagination in this New Year!
In this conversation, you’ll hear:
- How Rachel and Matt have experienced the trend that the “stable church” is an “endangered species” (5:30)
- What it means for congregations where Millennials are becoming the core (10:45)
- The different generational needs and expectations of pastoral leadership (14:00)
- How Gen Z is reshaping the church and how leaders can cultivate Gen Z community (25:00)
- Growing opportunities for digital discipleship (30:00)
- Leaning into AI in 2024 and beyond (38:10)
Guests
Rev. Rachel Billups is a visionary, leader, speaker, and author. Currently, she serves as pastor at New Albany United Methodist Church. She previously served as senior pastor at Ginghamsburg Churchmulti-campus ministry in Tipp City, Ohio. Rachel draws on her love of people and passion to explore new venues for ministry and mission.
Rachel is an ordained Elder within the United Methodist Church and holds bachelor’s degrees in Bible/religion and history from Anderson University and a master of divinity from Duke Divinity School. Rachel is the author of Be Bold: Finding Your Fierce and other books published by Abingdon Press.
Rev. Matt Rawle is the lead pastor at Asbury United Methodist Church in Bossier City, Louisiana and a graduate from the LSU School of Music and Duke Divinity School. He’s an international speaker who loves to tell an old story in a new way, especially at the intersection of pop culture and the church. He’s authored The Heart that Grew Three Sizes, The Grace of Les Misérables, What Makes a Hero?, The Faith of a Mockingbird, Hollywood Jesus, The Salvation of Doctor Who, and The Redemption of Scrooge. Learn more about Matt on his website, mattrawle.com.
To view videos of podcast episodes, please go to the Igniting Imagination YouTube.
Subscribe to our Learning and Innovation emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
Read Rev. Dr. Paul Escamilla’s response to the Wheatley episode on our website here.
In this episode, you’ll hear us:
- Discuss of Wheatley’s unsettling insistence that we are ‘addicted to hope’ (9:19)
- Consider what the notion of “islands of sanity” means for local congregations (13:55)
- Analyze becoming vs. gaining (22:34)
- Interpret Wheatley’s Two Loop theory for the work of the church today (37:24)
- Experience Danielle Shroyer reading an excerpt from the new intro to the 10th Anniversary of her book, “Boundary Breaking God” (53:00)
Danielle Shroyer’s Bio
Danielle spent over a decade in pastoral leadership and was a founding member of the emerging church movement. She speaks often across the country on issues of theology, faith, culture, and story, and she blogs at beasoulninja.com. Danielle currently serves as the Spiritual Director in Residence at Preston Hollow Presbyterian Church in Dallas.
Danielle is the author of Original Blessing: Putting Sin in its Rightful Place; Where Jesus Prayed: Illuminations on the Lord’s Prayer in the Holy Land; and The Boundary Breaking God: An Unfolding Story of Hope and Promise.
Gil Rendle’s Bio
Gil is a retired Senior Vice President and part-time consultant with The Texas Methodist Foundation in Austin, Texas, and an independent consultant working with issues of change and leadership in denominations.
Rendle has an extensive background in organizational development, group and systems theory, and leadership development. He has consulted with congregations on planning, staff and leadership development, and issues of change. He is well known for his work with middle judicatory and national denominational offices and staff as they wrestle with denominational and congregational change.
He is the author of ten books, a contributor to four books, and the author of numerous articles and monographs. His most recent books include Journey in the Wilderness: New Life for Mainline Churches (2010) and Back to Zero: The Search to Rediscover the Methodist Movement (2011) both published by Abingdon Press and Doing the Math of Mission: Fruits, Faithfulness and Metrics (2014) and Quietly Courageous: Leading the Church in a Changing World (2018) both published by Rowman & Littlefield.
To view videos of podcast episodes, please go to the Igniting Imagination YouTube.
Subscribe to our Learning and Innovation emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
Dr. Margaret Wheatley has greatly influenced our leadership ministry work over the past several decades. We have given her book Who Do We Choose to Be? Facing Reality, Restoring Sanity, Claiming Leadership to many leaders. Meg’s foundational idea that “conversation is the currency of change” is at the heart of everything we do. The Two-Loop Theory she developed with Deborah Frieze has helped us clarify and articulate our role in forming cohorts that network, nourish, and inspire leaders to bring about the new Wesleyan ecosystem and the world that God imagines. Needless to say, getting to meet Meg and record a podcast with her was thrilling for us! And…this interview truly wowed us. In fact, it was so dang good we are releasing it way earlier than we anticipated! We want you to hear Meg’s insights about the age we are living in, how she’s changed her mind, and what is ours to do as leaders today.If you find our podcast meaningful, share with a friend and leave us a review! And as we mention in each episode, we love hearing from you! Visit our websites for our contact information and more! https://ignitingimagination.org/ and https://wesleyanimpactpartners.org/
In this conversation, you'll hear:
- Response to those who think money, not conversation is the currency of change today (7:18)
- Analysis of the “Age of Threat” we are living in and the role of islands of sanity (12:00)
- Updated thinking about the Two-Loop theory and role of catalyst (20:05)
- The antidote to despair and grief in our time (34:15)
- The need for health refugias (43:35)
- What’s going to be on her tombstone (50:30)
- Lisa Greenwood and Shannon Hopkins reflect on the conversation with Meg (53:27)
Dr. Margaret Wheatley is a consultant, senior-level advisor, teacher, speaker, co-founder and President of The Berkana Institute; she has worked on all continents (except Antarctica) with all levels, ages, and types of organizations, leaders, and activists. Her work now focuses on developing and supporting leaders globally as Warriors for the Human Spirit. These leaders put service over self, stand steadfast through crises and failures, and make a difference for the people and causes they care about. With compassion and insight, they know how to invoke people’s inherent generosity, creativity, kindness, and community–no matter what’s happening around them.
Meg has written ten books, including the classic Leadership and the New Science, and been honored for her pathfinding work by many professional associations, universities, and organizations. Her website is designed as a library of free resources as well as information about products and her speaking calendar. www.margaretwheatley.com
We reference Margaret Wheatley and Deborah Frieze’s Two Loop Theory in the conversation. Find information about the theory and so much more on the Berkana website resource page here.
To view videos of podcast episodes, please go to the Igniting Imagination YouTube.
Subscribe to our Learning and Innovation emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
Rev. Kathi McShane, a retired United Methodist pastor, and Rabbi Elan Babchuck, a millennial, experienced an immediate connection when they met, a Spirit connection that made them fast friends from the beginning. In this episode, they share how their friendship naturally manifested in Picking Up the Pieces: Leadership After Empire. They discuss the vision of the book, moving away from the pyramid model of leadership where power is centered around one person or a group of people and towards a shared power where every person can stretch toward the fullness of their God-given gifts, regardless of where they land on an organizational chart. Their vision of leadership, born of their friendship, shows how holy friendship truly benefits not only those in the friendship but blesses the whole world.
Poem from the Podcast
“Red Brocade” by Naomi Shihab Nye
The Arabs used to say,
When a stranger appears at your door,
feed him for three days
before asking who he is,
where he’s come from,
where he’s headed.
That way, he’ll have strength
enough to answer.
Or, by then you’ll be
such good friends
you don’t care.
Let’s go back to that.
Rice? Pine nuts?
Here, take the red brocade pillow.
My child will serve water
to your horse.
No, I was not busy when you came!
I was not preparing to be busy.
That’s the armor everyone put on
to pretend they had a purpose
in the world.
I refuse to be claimed.
Your plate is waiting.
We will snip fresh mint
into your tea.
(Nye, Naomi Shihab. “Red Brocade.” 19 Varieties of Gazelle: Poems of the Middle East, HarperCollins Publishers, 2005, pp. 40.)
Quotations
"I know I'm in a holy friendship when I feel in every interaction like I am so gifted by this person's presence in my life and what I want for him is only good. I think those are the same things that sound like love."
- Rev. Kathleen McShane
We discuss:
A rabbi and a pastor, living on different coasts and born in different generations, form a holy friendship. (04:13)
The friends discuss the concept of a soul friend and their deep connection with each other. (11:30)
The two reflect on the spontaneous and immediate response that led them to collaborate on writing a book, believing it was something bigger than themselves. (13:51)
The friends reflect on the dynamics of power and friendship, highlighting the importance of humility, learning, and letting go of pride. (28:33)
The suggestion that religious organizations have the potential to experiment with alternative leadership models and add value to society. (34:43)
About
Rev. Kathleen McShane is the director of Leadership and Innovation for Texas Methodist Foundation and Wesleyan Impact Partners. She retired from active ministry as an ordained Elder in the California-Nevada Conference of the United Methodist Church in 2022. She led four congregations and served eight years as the vice president for Institutional Advancement at the Pacific School of Religion. Before attending seminary, she was a civil litigator, practicing law in the San Francisco Bay Area. She co-founded the Changemaker Initiative, a small national movement of churches committed to empowering lay people to become compassion-driven changemakers like Jesus.
Rabbi Elan Babchuck is the executive vice president at Clal, the National Jewish Center for Learning and Leadership, and the founding executive director of Glean Network, which partners with Columbia Business School. He is a sought-after thought leader, having delivered keynotes at stages ranging from TEDx to the US Army’s General Officer Convocation, published in The Atlantic, The Guardian, Washington Post, and Religion News Service, has a column for The Wisdom Daily, and he contributed to Meaning Making – 8 Values That Drive America’s Newest Generations (2020, St. Mary’s Press). He also serves as a founding partner of Starts With Us, a movement to counteract toxic polarization in America, and a founding research advisory board member of Springtide Research Institute, which focuses on spirituality, mental health, and Gen Z.
Rev. Kathleen McShane and Rabbi Elan Babchuck co-authored Picking Up the Pieces: Leadership after Empire (Fortress Press, to be published January 2024). The book offers a provocation to religious leaders to exercise institutional power more generously. It speaks to leaders ready to shift from organizational patterns that demand over-functioning and instead share power so that power multiplies.
Show Notes
Rev. Kathleen McShane is the director of Leadership and Innovation for Texas Methodist Foundation and Wesleyan Impact Partners. She retired from active ministry as an ordained Elder in the California-Nevada Conference of the United Methodist Church in 2022. She led four congregations and served eight years as the vice president for Institutional Advancement at the Pacific School of Religion. Before attending seminary, she was a civil litigator, practicing law in the San Francisco Bay Area. She co-founded the Changemaker Initiative, a small national movement of churches committed to empowering lay people to become compassion-driven changemakers like Jesus.
Rabbi Elan Babchuck is the executive vice president at Clal, the National Jewish Center for Learning and Leadership, and the founding executive director of Glean Network, which partners with Columbia Business School. He is a sought-after thought leader, having delivered keynotes at stages ranging from TEDx to the US Army’s General Officer Convocation, published in The Atlantic, The Guardian, Washington Post, and Religion News Service, has a column for The Wisdom Daily, and he contributed to Meaning Making – 8 Values That Drive America’s Newest Generations (2020, St. Mary’s Press). He also serves as a founding partner of Starts With Us, a movement to counteract toxic polarization in America, and a founding research advisory board member of Springtide Research Institute, which focuses on spirituality, mental health, and Gen Z.
Rev. Kathleen McShane and Rabbi Elan Babchuck co-authored Picking Up the Pieces: Leadership after Empire (Fortress Press, to be published January 2024). The book offers a provocation to religious leaders to exercise institutional power more generously. It speaks to leaders ready to shift from organizational patterns that demand over-functioning and instead share power so that power multiplies.
To view videos of podcast episodes, please go to the Igniting Imagination YouTube.
Subscribe to our Learning and Innovation emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
The guests in this episode became friends through a common commitment to activism and social justice. Dr. Cleve V. Tinsley IV and Rev. Dr. Matt Russell became best friends both by cultivating their common ground and exploring the very real differences between their perspectives and experiences. They share how their friendship has profoundly shaped their work, their personal growth, and their lives as Christian men. Their conversation, very real and full of laughter, feels like an experience of the holy, showing us how sanctified friendships are a work of the Spirit bringing us together, especially for such a time as this. It’s well worth just taking the time to be fully immersed in this wonderful conversation.
Find the poem from the podcast here.
Quotations
"Matt enables me to be creative because he's one of the few persons in the world who would understand my decisions and commitment to my integrity of conscience."
- Dr. Cleve V. Tinsley IV
We discuss:
Matt and Cleve discuss how they met and became friends through their shared passion for social justice and activism. (5:27)
The importance of building friendships across divides and the challenges of understanding different experiences and perspectives. (26:01)
The speakers discuss how their friendship changed them and impacted their personal growth, creativity, and ability to thrive. (33:30)
Exploring the challenges and importance of forming meaningful friendships between Christian men. (41:33)
Exploring the concept of holiness and the need for the church to redefine it, emphasizing the importance of relational and shared resourcing. (49:18)
About
Dr. Cleve V. Tinsley IV is assistant professor of history and political science in the School of Arts and Sciences at Virginia Union University (VUU), where he has also been appointed the inaugural executive director of the Center for African-American History and Culture (CAAHC).
Dr. Tinsley is quickly emerging as a noted interpreter of religion and Black freedom movements, recently commenting on the role of religion in light of recent uprisings for Black lives for the Berkley Center for Religion, Peace and World Affairs at Georgetown University. He is the co-author of Embodiment and Black Religion: Rethinking the Body in African-American Religious Experience and is working on his first monograph, tentatively entitled Making Black Lives Matter: Religion and Race in the Struggle for African-American Identity.
Rev. Dr. Matt Russell is an academic, activist, pastor, professor, and teacher. He is on staff at Chapelwood United Methodist Church in Houston and is co-founder and co-managing director of Project Curate, which works with religious, academic, and community organizations by curating and bringing together different voices and traditions to realize a radical vision of a more just and equitable world. He is also co-founder and executive director of Iconoclast Artists, a program that empowers young artists throughout the community.
Show Notes
Dr. Cleve V. Tinsley IV is assistant professor of history and political science in the School of Arts and Sciences at Virginia Union University (VUU), where he has also been appointed the inaugural executive director of the Center for African-American History and Culture (CAAHC). He is the co-author of Embodiment and Black Religion: Rethinking the Body in African-American Religious Experience and is working on his first monograph, tentatively entitled Making Black Lives Matter: Religion and Race in the Struggle for African-American Identity.
Rev. Dr. Matt Russell is an academic, activist, pastor, professor, and teacher. He is on staff at Chapelwood United Methodist Church in Houston and is co-founder and co-managing director of Project Curate, which works with religious, academic, and community organizations by curating and bringing together different voices and traditions to realize a radical vision of a more just and equitable world. He is also co-founder and executive director of Iconoclast Artists, a program that empowers young artists throughout the community.
This podcast is brought to you by the Learning and Innovation team at Wesleyan Impact Partners. Learning and Innovation connects diverse, high-capacity leaders who are courageously doing God’s work in the world, partnering in a Spirit-led movement to bring about human flourishing grounded in love, generosity, and belonging.
To view videos of podcast episodes, please go to the Igniting Imagination YouTube.
Subscribe to our Learning and Innovation emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
The guests in this episode are ‘all in’ with the church; they are dear friends of our host, Rev. Lisa Greenwood, who also happen to be Bishops in the United Methodist Church, Bishop Laura Merrill, and Bishop Janice Huie. In their conversation the three of them explore what has been meaningful about their friendship and how their friendship has impacted their leadership for the better, throughout their careers. They provide important insight into the critical role of vulnerability in friendship and how that means intentionally creating space for unlikely friendships, especially during challenging times. And they discuss how friendship is vital not only for us personally, but for the thriving of the church itself. Please enjoy and let us know what you think!
Quotations
"I'm in a holy friendship when I have both the desire and the energy and the willingness to be better, to be my best, truest self—that I want to, and I feel empowered to do so by that relationship."
- Bishop Laura Merrill
“[Sanctified friendship] is a time and a space and a relationship in which love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, gentleness—all those are expanded and make us more whole. It's when the fruit of the spirit is enlarged.”
- Bishop Janice Huie
We discuss:
The depth and breadth of friendship (8:35)
The importance of deep trust and vulnerability in friendship, even during challenging times. (23:08)
Intentionally creating spaces for unlikely friendships and the potential impact of these connections in the church and society. (29:35)
The significance of friendship in leadership roles (34:52)
Challenges of maintaining friendships as a bishop (36:16)
Find the poem from the podcast here.
About
Bishop Janice Huie serves with Texas Methodist Foundation in the area of Learning and Innovation, following twenty years as a bishop of the United Methodist Church. Previously, she served as bishop of the Texas Annual Conference and the Arkansas Conference. Bishop Huie served as president of the General Board of Higher Education & Ministry from 2000-2004, president of the Council of Bishops from May 2006 through May 2008, president of the UMCOR Board of Directors from 2008-2012, and president of the South Central Jurisdiction College of Bishops in 1998 & 2013.
Bishop Laura Merrill is Capital District Superintendent for the Rio Texas Conference of the UMC in Austin, Texas. Her Cabinet experience includes service as Assistant to the Bishop, Director of Clergy Excellence, and El Valle District Superintendent on the Texas-Mexico border.
When she was ten, Bob and Bishop Janice Huie were her pastors, and Bishop Huie has supported her ever since. As a young adult, Laura served as a missionary in Chile and with the Desert Southwest Conference in Tucson, Arizona. After seminary, she pastored local churches in Victoria, Los Fresnos, and Wimberley, Texas, followed by her appointment to the Cabinet in 2010. Her experience working with people experiencing poverty and in cross-cultural regions has fundamentally shaped her approach to ministry.
Show Notes
Bishop Janice Huie serves with Texas Methodist Foundation in the area of Learning and Innovation, following twenty years as a bishop of the United Methodist Church. Previously, she served as bishop of the Texas Annual Conference and the Arkansas Conference. Bishop Huie served as president of the General Board of Higher Education & Ministry from 2000-2004, president of the Council of Bishops from May 2006 through May 2008, president of the UMCOR Board of Directors from 2008-2012, and president of the South Central Jurisdiction College of Bishops in 1998 & 2013.
Bishop Laura Merrill is Capital District Superintendent for the Rio Texas Conference of the UMC in Austin, Texas. Her Cabinet experience includes service as Assistant to the Bishop, Director of Clergy Excellence, and El Valle District Superintendent on the Texas-Mexico border. After seminary, she pastored local churches in Victoria, Los Fresnos, and Wimberley, Texas, followed by her appointment to the Cabinet in 2010.
This podcast is brought to you by the Learning and Innovation team at Wesleyan Impact Partners. Learning and Innovation connects diverse, high-capacity leaders who are courageously doing God’s work in the world, partnering in a Spirit-led movement to bring about human flourishing grounded in love, generosity, and belonging.
To view videos of podcast episodes, please go to the Igniting Imagination YouTube.
Subscribe to our Learning and Innovation emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
This episode features two “besties” talking honestly and openly about their friendship of many years and how it has deeply nourished them, even though they’ve never even lived in the same state. They discuss being fully present in real friendship, giving each other accountability, compassion, love, and care. They engage with the challenges that all leaders face, especially clergy and lay leaders in the church, and how none of us are immune to the loneliness epidemic in our culture. Heartfelt and real, this episode is a call to all of us to take care of our friendships because they are core to who we are and our well-being. We hope you’ll listen and then share it with all your friends!
Quotations
"The people around us are better because of the way that we've challenged each other."
-Matt Rawle
"I don't know how often I find myself in a group of people who, at one moment or another, there's a confession time that says, 'I ain't got anybody... I don't have friends.'"
-Rachel Billups
We discuss:
The need for affirmation and cheerleading in friendships, as well as the importance of being able to challenge and give honest feedback. (14:42)
The challenges clergy face in forming friendships, particularly due to the isolation and boundaries that come with their work. (20:06)
How the church can be a space where people can find and nurture holy friendships, emphasizing the transformative power of community. (32:05)
Understanding the need for pastors to strike a balance between vulnerability while maintaining appropriate boundaries with their congregations. (34:09)
The different spaces where people can connect, such as online platforms and retreat centers, help remove barriers for gathering and help foster relationships. (40:06)
Find the poem from the podcast here.
About:
Rachel Billups is a visionary, leader, speaker, and author. Currently, she serves as pastor at New Albany United Methodist Church. She previously served as senior pastor at Ginghamsburg Church multi-campus ministry in Tipp City, Ohio. Rachel draws on her love of people and passion to explore new venues for ministry and mission.
Rachel is an ordained Elder within the United Methodist Church and holds bachelor degrees in Bible/religion and history from Anderson University and a master of divinity from Duke Divinity School. Rachel is the author of Be Bold: Finding Your Fierce and other books published by Abingdon Press.
Matt Rawle is the lead pastor at Asbury United Methodist Church in Bossier City, Louisiana and a graduate from the LSU School of Music and Duke Divinity School. He’s an international speaker who loves to tell an old story in a new way, especially at the intersection of pop culture and the church. He’s authored The Heart that Grew Three Sizes, The Grace of Les Misérables, What Makes a Hero?, The Faith of a Mockingbird, Hollywood Jesus, The Salvation of Doctor Who, and The Redemption of Scrooge. Learn more about Matt on his website, mattrawle.com.
Show Notes:
Rachel Billups is a visionary, leader, speaker, and author. Currently, she serves as pastor at New Albany United Methodist Church. She previously served as senior pastor at Ginghamsburg Church multi-campus ministry in Tipp City, Ohio. Rachel draws on her love of people and passion to explore new venues for ministry and mission.
Rachel is an ordained Elder within the United Methodist Church and holds bachelor degrees in Bible/religion and history from Anderson University and a master of divinity from Duke Divinity School. Rachel is the author of Be Bold: Finding Your Fierce and other books published by Abingdon Press.
Matt Rawle is the lead pastor at Asbury United Methodist Church in Bossier City, Louisiana and a graduate from the LSU School of Music and Duke Divinity School. He’s an international speaker who loves to tell an old story in a new way, especially at the intersection of pop culture and the church. He’s authored The Heart that Grew Three Sizes, The Grace of Les Misérables, What Makes a Hero?, The Faith of a Mockingbird, Hollywood Jesus, The Salvation of Doctor Who, and The Redemption of Scrooge. Learn more about Matt on his website, mattrawle.com.
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at Wesleyan Impact Partners. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders who are courageously doing God’s work in the world, partnering in a Spirit-led movement to bring about human flourishing grounded in love, generosity, and belonging.
To view videos of podcast episodes, please go to the Igniting Imagination YouTube.
Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
One of God’s greatest gifts to us is friendships, especially what our guest Rev. Dr. Victoria White calls “holy friendships.” These are the friendships that not only make life more enjoyable and more creative, but they are also core to who we are and who we become. They are “mutual and sacred relationships formed in God’s love,” and they help us be who God designs us to be. She gives us permission to drop the idea that we have to be hyper-productive lone rangers in the world and calls us to spend more time with our friends. She points out that even Jesus depended on the diversity and friendship of his disciples for his ministry. We are excited for you to hear this conversation on the life-giving importance of holy friendship. Listen with a friend over coffee!
Quotations
"Our society has commodified friendship and developed it into something that can be consumed. The church offers a real opportunity for us to cultivate the conditions for more authentic, more mutual, more holy relationships that help form us into the people God is creating us to be."
- Rev. Dr. Victoria White
"My holy friends are going to do that for me because they know that my work matters; they know that what I am doing contributes to the way that I am bearing witness to God's work in this world."
- Rev. Dr. Victoria White
"You know you're in a holy friendship when you can be uber confident and unashamedly yourself."
- Rev. Dr. Victoria White
We discuss:
The different forms that holy friendships can take and how they can impact various aspects of life. (6:00)
The power of friendship in forming disciples and the importance of cultivating authentic relationships in the church. (11:39)
The positive impact of spending time with friends on energy, creativity, and overall performance in various aspects of life. (16:00)
The significance of mutual respect, covenant, and conversation in friendships, especially in the face of inequality and social issues. (29:44)
Exploring the connection between holy friendships and institutions, highlighting the need for friendships among institutions. (34:03)
Find the poem from the podcast here.
About
Victoria Atkinson White is the managing director of grants at Leadership Education at Duke Divinity. In this role, she encourages traditioned innovation among Christian institutions and their leaders. For eight years, Victoria was a chaplain at the 900-resident Westminster Canterbury Community in Richmond, Virginia. Before that, she worked as minister to alumni at the Baptist Theological Seminary at Richmond. Victoria is a graduate of Duke Divinity School, Baptist Theological Seminary at Richmond and Rhodes College. She is an ordained minister affiliated with the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship.
Victoria is author of Holy Friendships: Nurturing Relationships That Sustain Pastors and Leaders, a book about how pastors and Christian institutional leaders serve more creatively, effectively, and joyfully when they feel supported and art of an intimate community of colleagues and friends who care about their personal and professional wellbeing.
Show Notes
Victoria Atkinson White is the managing director of grants at Leadership Education at Duke Divinity. In this role, she encourages traditioned innovation among Christian institutions and their leaders. Victoria is a graduate of Duke Divinity School and an ordained minister affiliated with the Cooperative Baptist Fellowship. She is also author of Holy Friendships: Nurturing Relationships That Sustain Pastors and Leaders.
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at Wesleyan Impact Partners. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders who are courageously doing God’s work in the world, partnering in a Spirit-led movement to bring about human flourishing grounded in love, generosity, and belonging.
Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
In a world of surface-level connections, true friendship is a divine experience. Friendship forms us and allows us to show up as our true selves. Join us as this season as we delve into the power of sanctifying friendship.
Rev. Alisha Gordon wants black single mothers not just to survive but to thrive socially, economically, and emotionally. This vision, borne out of Alisha’s own experience as a single mother, led to the start of the Current Project, an advocacy and mission-driven organization focused on supporting the well-being of black single mothers by connecting them to the resources needed to attain and maintain thriving. At the end of every episode this season, we have asked each guest, “What is a breath of fresh air in the church today that is nothing less than the gift of the Spirit?” This conversation with Alisha is a breath of fresh air that will leave you inspired, hopeful, and energized for working for “thy kingdom come” today. As Alisha says, “I think we actually have the capacity to save the world right now. We don’t have to wait until the return. We can just do it.” May it be so!
Quotations
“Programming is key because the program is often the bridge that meets the needs when policy fails us, and policy what gets people from the program in which they're doing well back into a society that can actually sustain their thriving.” (8:41)
“These were not mothers with a lack of innovation, a lack of ideas, or a lack of desire.
The only thing that was missing was that they needed someone to believe, someone to resource them and someone to get out of their way.” (15:10)
“I am of the strong belief that as we work and live and play in the margins that marginalized people know better than anyone what it is that they need. They don't need anybody to tell them that.” (16:42)
“It's really about how do we give people the opportunity to dream? And how can they dream safely? How can they live in a community where they can live out their dreams without worrying about them getting snatched from them by violence or bad policies?” (17:00)
“When we talk about the social, economic, and emotional thriving of not just Black single mothers, but of all people, we're talking about a notion of nothing missing, nothing broken, nothing or no one, or no policy or no social idea getting in the way of people experiencing the fullness of what God has caused us to experience.” (26:00)
“I think we actually have the capacity to save the world right now. We don't have to wait until the return. We can just do it.” (36:00)
“The breath of fresh air we need is a willingness to tell the real truth, to go against doctrine, denomination, and politics, and tell the real truth. And this is really inspired in particularly by GenZers. A lot of them don't go to church, but they're still the hands and feet of God. They really don't care about offending people as long as the offense gets us to the greater good.”
We discuss:
- Alisha’s journey to start The Current Project as the pandemic exposed so many of the gaps in marginalized communities. (5:23)
- How the pandemic ignited social entrepreneurship and Alisha’s own project which started with a virtual economic and mental health wellness group. (6:23)
- Programming and policy must complement each other for people to thrive. (8:41)
- The Current Project grew out of a survey of 230 moms in East Harlem and a promise she made to God. (9:51)
- The survey revealed Black single mothers who were very clear about their purpose and goals and only in need of resources and support. (13:57)
- Along with resources we must create safe places for people to dream and imagine what’s possible. (17:00)
- The financial sacrifice and leap of faith Alisha made to start The Current Project. (17:32)
- Overcoming an oppressive theology of shame to get to a place of thriving. (21:47)
- The core of The Current Project's work is to move from surviving to thriving, to experience the fullness of what God wants us to experience. (25:13)
- The Current Project’s cohort model which creates a shared space for moms to be honest about their experiences and be seen, heard, and supported. (27:46)
- Alisha’s God-sized dreams which include living communities for single moms and galvanizing information to influence program and policies that sustain thriving. (29:50)
- The need to serve moms who are earning too much for the social safety net but not enough to economically thrive. (30:59)
- The breath of fresh air in the church today is the willingness to tell the real truth, about what is possible in the world. (39:00)
About
Rev. Alicia Gordon is an awarded teacher, faith leader and social strategist whose work intersects social advocacy and culture. She's the founder and executive director of The Current Project, a nonprofit organization committed to closing social and economic gaps for Black single mothers, blending strategic programming and policy to lengthen the runway for thriving. Alisha focuses on helping Black single mothers get small businesses off the ground through financial support and training, so they live into their dreams and create space for economic stability and social liberation.
Prior to the current project, Alisha served with United Methodist women, now known as United Women in Faith, and was Executive Minister of programs at the historic Riverside Church in the city of New York, where she led innovative strategic programming. She's also brought a lens of moral and social advocacy to her work as the director for faith-based initiatives for national and city-wide political campaigns.
Alisha earned her Bachelor of English degree from Spelman College and a Master of Divinity degree from the Candler School of Theology at Emory University. Her work has been featured in national publications and media outlets, including Gray Television Washington Bureau, Parents, and WomanEvolve Podcast. Alicia was awarded Emory University's distinguished Top 40 under 40 in 2019 and is a member of the alumni Board of Candler School of Theology.
Show Notes
Rev. Alicia Gordon is an awarded teacher, faith leader and social strategist whose work intersects social advocacy and culture. She's the founder and executive director of The Current Project, a nonprofit organization committed to closing social and economic gaps for Black single mothers, blending strategic programming and policy to lengthen the runway for thriving. Alisha focuses on helping Black single mothers get small businesses off the ground through financial support and training, so they live into their dreams and create space for economic stability and social liberation.
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at Wesleyan Impact Partners. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders who are courageously doing God’s work in the world, partnering in a Spirit-led movement to bring about human flourishing grounded in love, generosity, and belonging.
To view videos of podcast episodes, please go to the Igniting Imagination Youtube.
Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
When Rev. Tyler Sit set out to plant a church in Minneapolis in 2015, he began by listening. He walked every neighborhood in the city to listen for God’s dreams and discern where God wanted him to plant a church. He listened to neighbors over meals to hear what kind of church they would want to be a part of. What emerged was a church led by BIPOC leaders focused on eco-justice, community organizing, and centering marginalized voices in the community. New City Church gets its name from Revelation 21 which describes a heaven where God lives in a new city where all tribes all welcomed, there is no more violence, and the earth is renewed. Tyler’s book is “Staying Awake: The Gospel for Changemakers.” This conversation will open your eyes and re-energize you for the change making work of the gospel in your context.
Quotations
“Innovation is born out of the innate Holy Spirit momentum that is already present among people in the neighborhood. The church is just there to hurry it along and keep people on board.” (11:42)
“If what we're doing as a church doesn't resonate with the felt visceral experience of the people in our neighborhoods, the people who are right in front of us, then what are we doing?” (14:40)
“The idea with centering marginalized voices is we want the people who are the most oppressed by society, the most neglected by society to be able to start, stop, and steer the conversation.” (16:56)
“We're entrusting the marginalized folks in our community to steer the conversation, away from what is maybe most important to the dominant culture and toward what might is most important to people who are oppressed by the dominant culture.”(17:45)
“I would encourage church leaders to consider what happens if the next international racial awakening happens in your front door?” (23:10)
“We need a separate sandbox for innovation where different rules apply. Where we have a dashboard of accountability metrics defined by planters and their communities, not just nickels and noses.” (40:35)
“There is no mechanism of social change or personal transformation that doesn't require organizing of a lot of people together. I think that organized religion is a requirement for social change today. It's a precondition for us to experience personal transformation and social transformation.” (44:30)
We discuss:
- Tyler’s innovative approach to ministry, focusing on solidarity and listening to the community. (7:43)
- Starting New City Church with a prayer walk through every neighborhood, paying close attention to each neighborhood’s needs. (8:46)
- Starting a multi-site church with a common mission and vision but specific to the neighborhood of each church. (13:12)
- How centering marginalized voices and entrusting them to steer the conversation is central to New City Church. (16:12)
- Being faithful in social movements instead of being in charge of them (19:05)
- How New City Church responded to the murder of George Floyd and how other churches can be faithful in social movements. (21:11)
- Centering marginalized voices means finding a new center of gravity for a community, not excluding anyone. (26:14)
- His book, Staying Awake: The Gospel for Changemakers was created to be useful to the people Tyler is ministry with. (29:01)
- The origins and mission of Intersect to support intersectional church planting for marginalized communities. (30:59)
- Realistic planning for funding ministry is key because it’s not enough just to have a great entrepreneurial idea. (33:43)
- The importance of institutional support from the Minnesota Annual Conference, Candler School of Theology, and different churches. (38:37)
- Organized religion is a requirement for social change today. (44:30)
- Launching The Grapevine Collective to provide capacity building and development for healing justice nonprofits. (45:31)
About
Rev. Tyler Sit is the church planter and pastor of New City Church in Minneapolis, Minnesota, which has been featured in the New York Times, The Atlantic, Minnesota Public Radio, and more. He is the author of Staying Awake: The Gospel for ChangemakersTyler is also co-founder of Intersect Planting Network and of Grapevine Collective. Tyler earned a BS in Communication Studies from Boston University and a Master of Divinity from Candler School of Theology, and he has lived in four continents.
Tyler has formal training as a prison chaplain, community organizer, and social entrepreneur. He is a lover of Minnesota and the son of a Chinese immigrant. When he is not at New City, you’ll find Tyler wandering around the Mississippi River. Learn more about Tyler at tylersit.com.
Show Notes
Rev. Tyler Sit is the church planter and pastor of New City Church in Minneapolis, Minnesota, which has been featured in the New York Times, The Atlantic, Minnesota Public Radio, and more. He is the author of Staying Awake: The Gospel for Changemakers. Tyler is also co-founder of Intersect Planting Network and of Grapevine Collective. Tyler earned a BS in Communication Studies from Boston University and a Master of Divinity from Candler School of Theology, and he has lived in four continents. Learn more about Tyler at tylersit.com.
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at Wesleyan Impact Partners. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders who are courageously doing God’s work in the world, partnering in a Spirit-led movement to bring about human flourishing grounded in love, generosity, and belonging.
Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
“This place makes me feel human again” is a phrase often heard at Galveston Central Church from people at radically different ends of the socioeconomic spectrum. Being a part of the community grounds people in the truth that they belong to each other. It is not too much to say that this conversation with Rev. Michael Gienger will make you feel human again. We talk with Michael about the church’s transformation from transactional ministry to relational ministry, the systemic impact the congregation is having on the city’s approach to homelessness, the improbable friendships that are probable at Central, and the fruit of scrappiness that churches are discovering as they try ministry in new ways. What you’ll hear from Michael is not just an inspired vision for being the church; you will also experience his authentic love for Jesus and tenacity for the poor that will leave you filled with real hope for what God is doing right now in and through leaders and congregations. Glory be!
Quotations
“It just became very obvious that with our little teeny tiny church we were never going to be able to do big things that God had in store for us unless we chose to partner with other organizations and utilize their gifts and graces. And our name didn't need to be on everything.” (15:23)
“What Central has done really well is fostering improbable friendships. Really what's happening here is we’re getting out of a transactional model, a social service model, that's based on hierarchies of the haves and the have nots.” (16:52)
“Our kitchen feeds hundreds of people every week, but when you walk into the kitchen I don't think you can tell who's somebody who slept on the beach last night, who's a UTMB student, and who's a congregant that showed up.” (18:49)
“We have this wonderful mix of people that are all serving together, that are learning from each other and are starting with what's right with you rather than what's wrong with you. We're not trying to fix people, we're just trying to have this tenacious solidarity with each other.” (19:02)
“It's hard to follow Jesus to live the full life that God's called us to if you don't have access to medical care, or if you don't have access to food or whatever else you need.” (22:01)
“My role is to help people come along and understand just a different way of being in the world. I’m convinced when people are met with that kind of love, when they get to see their neighbor up close, that’s really where transformation happens.” (29:03)
“If we're going to be in solidarity with the divine, it means solidarity with the poorest among us because this seems to be where God shows up.” (38:15)
We discuss:
- The journey that led Michael to Galveston Central Church and his innovative approach to ministry. (7:10)
- The challenges of restarting a church that had been around for 130 years that is averse to change and doesn’t have many resources. (9:50)
- Reopening Galveston Central Church with an eye for who they hadn't been in ministry with before. (12:10)
- Accomplishing what God had in store for the church required partnering with other organizations and not worrying about who gets credit. (15:19)
- Michael’s innovative approach to ministry, including fostering friendships, moving away from a transactional model, and partnering with other organizations. (16:28)
- Flattening power dynamics with monthly listening sessions to really understand the community’s needs and following their lead to meet those needs. (17:41)
- Central’s innovative clinic where the patients are in charge and the doctors and nurses and social workers and others who come are the guests. (19:40)
- Starting by caring for the whole person, weaving together their spiritual lives with their “actual” lives as a way to deepen their relationship with God. (21:11)
- Flipping hierarchies by moving from a model of believe first and then you can belong to belong first and the belief will come. (23:28)
- How people on all demographic sides at Central have told him that being at Central makes them “feel human again.” (26:01)
- The challenge of balancing their innovative ministry with expectations of the denomination and the neighborhood. (27:42)
- All the innovative ways they are finding to fund ministry, relying on the ways they are truly embedded in their community and being entrepreneurial. (29:57)
- The power of storytelling and how in addition to being pastor he is also chief story collector. (33:32)
- Sources of hope and creativity amidst all the many challenges the church has faced over the last three years. (41:44)
About Michael Gienger
Rev. Michael Gienger, a community organizer and changemaker, is pastor at Galveston Central Church in Galveston, Texas and an ordained elder in the Texas Annual Conference of the United Methodist Church. He received his undergraduate degree in Religion, concentrating in Christian Ethics, from Baylor University, and his Master of Divinity from Perkins School of Theology at Southern Methodist University. Michael is a co-founder of Galveston Housing Plus, a cofounding board member of Galveston CoCare, and a Curricula and Community Consultant for Project Curate.
Galveston Central Church is a hybrid church plant/revitalization that is making space for hopeful skeptics and the spiritually homeless through a generous orthodoxy and focus on justice ministries. Since Michael joined Central in 2014, Central has transformed from a dying congregation to a thriving community. In addition to re-planting the church itself, Michael has been able to establish smaller "new faith communities" within the larger Central structure, including the Couch Surfers - a weekly surfing group. Michael helps congregations think through new ways of engaging with people outside of their community through nontraditional, creative, contextual expressions of "church."
Show Notes
Rev. Michael Gienger is pastor at Galveston Central Church in Galveston, Texas. He is an ordained elder in the Texas Annual Conference of the United Methodist Church. He received his undergraduate degree in Religion, concentrating in Christian Ethics, from Baylor University, and his Master of Divinity from Perkins School of Theology at Southern Methodist University. Michael is a co-founder of Galveston Housing Plus, a cofounding board member of Galveston CoCare, and a Curricula and Community Consultant for Project Curate.
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at Wesleyan Impact Partners. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders who are courageously doing God’s work in the world, partnering in a Spirit-led movement to bring about human flourishing grounded in love, generosity, and belonging.
Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes.
Expanding imagination for ministry can happen when you employ the FISHing differently framework developed by today’s inspired guest and 2023 Locke Innovative Leader, Rev. Dr. Sidney WIlliams. As the saying goes: “what got us here won’t get us there.” Instead of focusing purely on the financial capital needed to fund ministry, Sidney invites us to FISH differently than we ever have before, and harness the power of Faith capital, Intellectual capital, Social capital, and Human capital. If you are like the disciples who are tired of catching few fish, this episode will make you want to get back in the boat and try again with a Jesus-led and Spirit-driven invitation to fish differently for the sake of the kingdom.
Quotations
“Storytelling is a form of pastoral care. To get people to do things differently, they have to know you know their story, so that before we write the next chapter in this journey together, you know how we got here.” (12:37)
“Churches that really excel in making an impact in their communities have created a safe space where people feel like their ideas will be heard and their differences are nurtured.” (17:15)
“We've got pastors and bishops and church leaders and lay leaders who are focused on budgets and money as if that's the goal rather than the harvest. What I try to teach and preach is there is no shortage of money, but we have to focus on solving problems.” (25:47)
“It's less about fixing people and more about asking, God, how can I partner with the people closest to the pain?” (29:18)
“Greatness is not about how great the speech you give, how big the crowd you assemble, how much power you assemble in your community organizing. Greatness is what's replicable.” (40:30)
“If we kind of blame the system it can almost give us a reason not to do the work as opposed to knowing we are a part of the system and asking how we can bring about justice and equity and mercy and love and grace and hope and those things that God is calling us to be.” (44:35)
“Fishing differently is learning how to thread to needle in a way that you can put together a tapestry, a cloth of different fabrics that would probably never come together on their own and threading that fabric together in a way that comfort gives warmth and comfort to the people in our community who need it most.” (47:48)
We discuss:
- Sidney’s journey from Wall Street to Fishing differently. (5:36)
- The FISHing Differently framework and how Sidney developed it. (9:54)
- Healing and pastoral care through storytelling. (12:37)
- Churches are part of the ecosystem that God has put in place. (17:36)
- Discerning purpose and measuring impact of a congregation. (23:54)
- Solving problems, finding funding, and partnering with communities. (28:31)
- How Sidney led the church to rebuild and reimagine ministry. (30:09)
- Partnerships to sustain ministry. (35:25)
- Changing systems from within and working with flawed systems. (39:28)
- Why calling everyone to a common table matters today. (47:05)
About Sidney Williams
Rev. Dr. Sidney Williams, a social impact advisor and community builder, is President & CEO of Crossing Capital Group and Senior Pastor of Bethel AME Church in Morristown, New Jersey. Sidney is the author of Morning Meditations: 100 Days to Believing You’re Successful and Fishing Differently: Ministry Formation in the Marketplace. Through his FISHing Differently framework, he helps churches and nonprofits engage with impact investors to fund ministries that accelerate sustained thriving in underfinanced communities.
Through his 30 year corporate and community development experience, Sidney has participated in over $10 billion in public equity and debt offerings, including working for leading Wall Street firms in New York City and helping to start several companies. Since 2005, Pastor Sidney has been training leaders of faith communities using his FISHing Differently framework. In addition to providing leadership development training for local churches, Pastor Sidney is an adjunct professor at Drew Theological Seminary and a Senior Lecturer at Payne Theological Seminary in Wilberforce, Ohio. He has also lectured in graduate business programs and taught corporate executives from Asia, Europe and the United States.
His greatest joys in life include spending time with family, traveling, meeting new people, cooking, and learning how to greet people in their native tongue.
Show Notes
Rev. Dr. Sidney Williams, a social impact advisor and community builder, is President & CEO of Crossing Capital Group and Senior Pastor of Bethel AME Church in Morristown, New Jersey. Sidney is the author of Morning Meditations: 100 Days to Believing You’re Successful and Fishing Differently: Ministry Formation in the Marketplace. Through his FISHing Differently framework, he helps churches and nonprofits engage with impact investors to fund ministries that accelerate sustained thriving in underfinanced communities.
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at Wesleyan Impact Partners. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders who are courageously doing God’s work in the world, partnering in a Spirit-led movement to bring about human flourishing grounded in love, generosity, and belonging.
Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes.
Why do we innovate? The goal is never innovation itself. As Dr. Kenda Creasy Dean says, “The goal is always loving people well.” This conversation is packed with insight and wisdom that gets to the heart of why innovation matters. We often feel pressure to innovate in big ways that make things bigger, faster, stronger but Kendra reminds us that the innovation present in the incarnation was smaller, slower, and more vulnerable. How can we cultivate a balance between prayerfully listening and holy impatience so that we meet people where they are and love them well? This conversation ignited our imagination for innovation in ministry–we can’t wait for you to hear it!
Quotations
“We know we’re supposed to love our neighbor, but we don’t always know how to love well.” (8:29)
“Social innovation is a way of making change that keeps human relationships at the center. We are creating new ways to relate to one another that are helpful and life giving and dignity restoring.” (11:38)
“We don’t have to go out and look for people who need ministry. We just look around and figure out how God has called us to be Christ’s envoys in that setting.” (13:49)
“We don’t want to make our goal innovation. We want to make our goal loving people well.” (16:03)
“We often think about innovation as helping things get bigger, faster, and stronger. But in the incarnation, God got more limited. God got smaller, slower, and more vulnerable.” (25:18)
“The innovation we are behind is about slowing things down, breaking things apart, making people more human and vulnerable.” (25:26)
“The point is to disrupt and to re-enter our large systems with the perspective of love. There’s nothing more disruptive than sacrificial love.” (27:45)
“There's nothing that gives me more hope than the young leaders who are out there. They have holy impatience in spades. They will make a hundred mistakes. They will jump the gun, and they will be eager and in their own way. They are completely smitten with God and with the people who God has put on their path. It's really hard not to be hopeful when you get to work with young leaders.” (38:36)
We discuss:
-
Owen Ross shares what he means by “every church planting” (4:43)
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Kenda Creasy Dean on the point of innovation (10:27)
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Where the focus of the church needs to be (14:02)
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How innovation is connected with loving people well (17:30)
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The two things Kenda is hearing from leaders in the church right now (18:42)
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The role of connection and permission in innovation (21:18)
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Leading ministry that is responsive to the Spirit (22:32)
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Innovation that is centered in relationships and vulnerability (25:22)
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Learning to prayerfully listen (30:57)
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Discerning the difference God is calling us to make (33:44)
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Where Kenda draws the most hope (38:37)
About Kenda Creasy Dean
Kenda Creasy Dean is the Mary D. Synnott Professor of Youth, Church, and Culture at Princeton Theological Seminary and an ordained United Methodist pastor in the Greater New Jersey Annual Conference. In addition to teaching in practical theology, education, and formation, Dean works closely with Princeton’s Institute for Youth Ministry and the Farminary. Dean is the author of numerous books on youth, church, and culture, the best known of which includes Almost Christian: What the Faith of Our Teenagers Is Telling the American Church, Practicing Passion: Youth and the Quest for a Passionate Church Eerdmans, and The Godbearing Life: The Art of Soul Tending for Youth Ministry with Ron Foster Upper Room, 1998).
Kenda has directed numerous grants on youth, innovation, and the church, including The Zoe Project (2017-2021), and was co-director with Harold Masback of The Joy and Adolescent Faith and Flourishing Project through Yale’s Center for Faith and Culture. In 2013, she co-founded Ministry Incubators, Inc., an educational and consulting group that supports Christian social innovation and entrepreneurial ministries. A graduate of Wesley Theological Seminary, she served as a pastor in Virginia, Maryland, and New Jersey and as a campus minister in suburban Washington, D.C. before receiving her PhD from Princeton Seminary in 1997.
Show Notes
Kenda Creasy Dean is the Mary D. Synnott Professor of Youth, Church, and Culture at Princeton Theological Seminary and an ordained United Methodist pastor in the Greater New Jersey Annual Conference. In addition to teaching in practical theology, education, and formation, Dean works closely with Princeton’s Institute for Youth Ministry and the Farminary. Dean is the author of numerous books on youth, church, and culture, the best known of which includes Almost Christian: What the Faith of Our Teenagers Is Telling the American Church.
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at Wesleyan Impact Partners.
Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
The last episode of our season on formation begins with co-hosts Lisa Greenwood and Tim Soerens each sharing their top three takeaways from the season. Don’t miss this great season wrap up!
And then: We couldn’t imagine a better conversation partner to end this season with than Jonathan Brooks, or as he’s better known, Pastah J, who offers a hopeful vision and powerful challenge for the church to lead the way out of these hard times: practice presence with all neighbors in all neighborhoods. “I don’t actually think that there are ever any God forsaken places,” Pastah J says, “but there are church forsaken places because it is the church that has decided to take all our gifts and talents, all that God gives us, our power, and reside in more comfortable spaces.” Rooted in scripture and grounded in theology, Pastah J reminds us that God is as interested in where people live as God is in whether they will go to heaven. Pastah J invites us to engage our neighborhoods right now for God’s sake.
Quotations
“I cannot understand my faith apart from my own social location and context and the struggle of African Americans in this country.” (13:53)
“We need to think about how God feels about land, how God feels about place, how God feels about how we use spaces to bring him glory and cultivate the kingdom of God on earth.’ (16:24)
“Loving your neighborhood is as important as loving your neighbor.” (20:15)
“I don’t think God has forsaken my neighborhood. I think God is alive and well in my community, and if you come closer you’ll be able to see that.” (24:20)
“I don’t actually think that there are ever any God forsaken places, but there are church forsaken places because it is the church that has decided to take all our gifts and talents, all that God gives us, our power, and reside in more comfortable spaces.” (25:05)
“God is intimately concerned with where people eat, what people eat, where they live, how they’re educated, just as much as whether or not their soul will spend eternity in heaven.” (30:00)
“The truth is that every person and every place display both the glory of God and the brokenness of humanity.” (34:16)
“If you live in a place where the dominant narrative is that it’s beautiful, you as a Christian have a godly responsibility to expose the brokenness. And if you live in a place where brokenness and negativity is the dominant narrative, you have a godly responsibility to lift up the beauty there.” (36:24)
“Preach with power, teach with power, love in ways that you never have, don’t give up. Allow the truth of what we’ve experienced to be the wind that blows you forward.” (51:00)
We discuss:
- Tim and Lisa each share their top three takeaways from this season on formation (0:43)
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Pastah J: how place impacts the way we live out our theology and formation (14:27)
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The pivotal moment Pastah J realized that his neighborhood and his church were intimately connected (18:45)
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The impact of the narrative of upward mobility on urban neighborhoods and how it leads to “continual disinvestment” (23:10)
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Jesus call us to be uncomfortable and to reinvest in some of the places we have run away from (25:35)
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We need to need make bifocal “Glory of God” and “Brokenness of Humanity” glasses to fully see the world the way God does (32:00)
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Discipleship and formation happen in relationship to each other and to the places we live (39:30)
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God’s gifts and goodness exist for us in community with each other (44:42)
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Words of hope for everyone doing the work of God (49:35)
About Jonathan Brooks
Jonathan Brooks, or Pastah J as he is affectionately known, is a lifelong resident of Chicago, IL and currently serves as Co-Lead Pastor at Lawndale Christian Community Church in the North Lawndale Neighborhood. He is also Board Chair of the Parish Collective. He previously served as Senior Pastor at Canaan Community Church in the West Englewood neighborhood for fifteen years. As an educator on many different levels and a firm believer in investing in your local community, Jonathan has a deep desire to impress this virtue on the students and young people in his congregation, classroom and community. His ministry focuses on youth development, holistic health, college scholarships, art and music training as well as restorative justice practices and care for the incarcerated and their families.
Pastah J is a sought after speaker, writer, artist and community activist. He has contributed to numerous blogs, articles and books, and his most recent book is Church Forsaken: Practicing Presence in Neglected Neighborhoods.
Show Notes
Jonathan Brooks, or Pastah J, is Co-Lead Pastor at Lawndale Christian Community Church in the North Lawndale Neighborhood. An artist and community activist, he is Board Chair of the Parish Collective and author of Church Forsaken: Practicing Presence in Neglected Neighborhoods. Learn more about him and his work at pastahj.com.
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission.
Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
Rosa Lee Harden, Episcopal priest and serial entrepreneur, says that a conversation about generosity should bring about the best in us. This conversation certainly does just that! Each minute with Rosa Lee is inspired and inspiring. Rosa Lee shares her journey of faith that led her to bring together her desire to follow Jesus with her financial savvy and to start SOCAP (Social Capital Markets) and Neighborhood Economics, both dedicated to bringing capital to neighborhoods that cannot normally access it and expanding the reach of impact investing. This conversation invites us to think deeply about how we invest our money. We may be born into a consumer economy, but we can think and live better and more in line with the economy God imagines. Rosa Lee’s authentic, wholehearted, and brilliant presence shines throughout this conversation and challenges us to let our faith formation change how we see and use our financial resources.
Quotations
“I cared more about following Jesus than loving Jesus. I was always wondering why did Jesus do something and how did that impact who we are today.” (5:58)
“Impact investing, people investing in change, is a response to a moral hunger in the market.” (14:30)
“Everybody knows, you scratch an impact investor and you have a faith story.” (15:15)
“A conversation about generosity should bring about the best in us instead of the worst in us.” (17:30)
“The people who live upstream from us determine the quality of the water in our river, and we determine the quality of the water in the river of the people downstream. So we are in it together.” (22:28)
“When you dig into the traditional bank way of doing things and the traditional accounting way of doing things, folks on the ground, folks in the trenches, folks who are in need, know a whole lot more about how to manage money effectively than we do.” (32:57)
“We want to open the eyes of people in the pews to get rid of that idea that when we're talking about being more generous, we’re not coming after your stuff, we’re saying that your stuff can participate in this new economy. Your stuff can be generative in a way that you actually don't lose anything and everybody gains.” (34:10)
We discuss:
- Key moments in her formation as a follower of Jesus (5:38)
- How she became a leader at the intersection of faith and finance (8:30)
- Being called to become a priest while running the Mississippi Business Journal (10:08)
- Keeping meaning alive as a motive for impact investing (12:00)
- Jesus and our understanding of money (15:30)
- Why it’s so hard to talk about money from a biblical, theological frame (16:30)
- The challenge of preaching about money (19:00)
- Biblical and theological threads that have guided her work (20:53)
- Her work with Neighborhood Economics (24:00)
- Building innovative loans funds by listening to people on the ground who are closest to the challenges (33:00)
- The relationship between Christian formation and our every-day relationship with money (38:47)
- Paying attention to the ways in which how you spend your money in your community can improve your community (43:19)
- How to think differently despite the fact that we are born into a consumer economy (47:30)
- How she’s being formed currently and how that is making a difference for her and in her work (49:52)
About Rosa Lee Harden
The Rev. Canon Rosa Lee Harden is an Episcopal priest and self-described serial-entrepreneur. She is executive producer of Neighborhood Economics, and a founder of SOCAP, both dedicated to bringing capital to neighborhoods that cannot normally access it and expanding the reach of impact investing.
Her vocational life has included being publisher of weekly newspapers, trade journals, a business journal and CEO of a ‘Silicon Valley’ start-up. She was ordained as an Episcopal Priest in 2000 and served as Vicar of Holy Innocents Episcopal Church in San Francisco for ten years. She also served as the Canon for Money and Meaning at All Soul’s Episcopal Cathedral in Asheville, NC. In 2003, she developed ‘via media,’ a video curriculum about basic theology for the Episcopal church, at a time when the church was under great stress. Purchased by more than 1000 churches, it brought healing and connection across the denomination. In 2008, she and her husband, Kevin Jones, launched the global SOCAP (Social Capital Markets) conference, the conference at the intersection of money and meaning. In its 11th year, SOCAP18 brought more than 3,000 people from more than 60 countries to San Francisco to accelerate the good economy.
Now, Rosa Lee is leading F+F: Reimagining God’s Economy, a conference to enable the varied and disconnected tribes of the Christian church to learn a language for making theological sense of money and its uses.
Show Notes
Rev. Canon Rosa Lee Harden, Episcopal priest and serial entrepreneur, is executive producer of Neighborhood Economics, a founder of SOCAP and a leader of F+F: Reimagining God’s Economy
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission.
Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
Mark DeYmaz, founder of Mosaix Church and the Mosaix Global Network, passionately articulates how the multi-ethnic church is the visible sign of the Gospel. In this wide-ranging conversation, Mark shares the origin story of Mosaix Church and his conviction that “if a people group or an individual is missing, then we’re actually missing part of the beauty of what God is revealing.” From a gripping football metaphor to scriptural analysis and an in-depth reflection about the economic and demographic challenges for churches today, this fast-moving, hopeful, and challenging conversation is not to be missed!
Quotations
“Formation isn’t a Christian idea. It’s a human one. All of us are always being formed.” (1:14)
“In the New Testament, men and women, Jews and Gentiles, rich and poor all walk, work and worship God together as one, in local churches.” (11:59)
“If the Kingdom of Heaven is not segregated, why on earth is the church?”(14:12)
“We live in a Matthew 5:16 century” (19:49)
“Jesus didn’t say let them hear your good words. He said let them see your good works.” (19:50)
“In the 21st century you have to get people comfortable living with tension.” (35:01)
"So it's not about size, it's about influence. The greater diversity, the greater your influence, comfort versus tension in the 20th century. You make people feel comfortable at church in the 21st. You gotta get people comfortable with tension, right? Because that's where the unity is. And the, the, the picture of that to me is Jesus with his arms outstretched dying on the cross, lifted up to draw all people himself."
“We are called to be ministers of reconciliation and ambassadors of peace.” (41:45)
“We have to stand on our faith, our stewardship, our love, and just go for it.” (43:28)
We Discuss:
- The complicated relationship between what’s happening in the church today and the role of formation (2:35)
- We have to consistently ask who we are seeking to become and what is asked of us. (3:24)
- If we are not intentional about how we are formed, we will default to being formed by the influences around us. (4:08)
- Starting and growing Mosaic Church following a New Testament model (9:00)
- Mosaic Church functions like a football team – different teams all working together to meet the particular challenges of its congregation (16:35)
- How Mosaic Church blends spiritual, nonprofit and for-profit strategies to thrive (19:11)
- The credit that Mosaic Church gets is to the glory of God (20:51)
- Their drive to advance the cause of Christ by meeting the needs of their community led them to innovate their business model (23:30)
- Metrics for the church in the 21st century (30:17)
- We have to show pastors how to stop just managing decline (31:14)
- In the 21st century the key purpose of the church is to help people get comfortable living in tension (35:01)
- Regardless of the challenges, and emboldened by the Gospel, we have to act out of faith and optimism (43:28)
About Mark DeYmaz
Mark DeYmaz is a thought-leading writer and recognized champion of the Multi-Ethnic Church Movement. Mark planted the Mosaic Church of Central Arkansas in 2001 where he continues to serve as Directional Leader. In 2004, he co-founded the Mosaix Global Network, and currently serves as its president and the convener of the National Multi-ethnic Church Conference which occurs every three years. He has written several books, including his most recent, The Coming Revolution in Church Economics, as well as Disruption: Repurposing the Church to Redeem the Community. His book Leading a Healthy Multi-Ethnic Church was a finalist for a Christianity Today Book of the Year Award in 2008.
Show Notes
More information about Mark DeYmaz can be found on his website.
Mark DeYmaz is the author of several books including The Coming Revolution in Church Economics, Disruption: Repurposing the Church to Redeem the Communityand Leading a Healthy Multi-Ethnic Church
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission.
Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
Joe Park, CEO and Principal of Horizons Stewardship, invites us to think deeply about the connection between formation and generosity. He humbly says he is not an expert in generosity but his track record of incredible successes helping churches and faith-based not for profits build sustainable cultures of generosity, and the depth with which he approaches this topic sure makes us want to call him an expert!
Joe shares how creating a culture of generosity connects with cultivating experiences where people can grow as disciples through small groups and service together. He offers practical ideas for weaving generosity throughout the entire congregation (don’t miss these insightful and important ideas!). Joe’s own story of discerning his call to ministry and his continued openness to the Spirit is inspiring; he is not just talking the talk of generosity. Joe’s generous spirit shines through his life and certainly through this conversation.
This conversation is timely. We’re releasing it at the beginning of the new year both for the practical ideas Joe shares for creating cultures of generosity–and for the invitation to consider what is forming us and if what is forming us is leading us to become more generous.
Quotes
“Generosity is a way of being.” (3:59)
“A financial gift is way bigger than the dollar amount. It’s a visible sign of trust.” (8:12)
“Creating a culture of generosity requires an encounter with the Holy Spirit, which happens in small groups, discipleship and serving.” (23:25)
“Whenever you talk about generosity, you want to talk about spiritual growth. When you talk about giving, you want to talk about impact.” (37:11)
“Generosity is about inviting people to join God in what God is already doing and invest all of themselves in that.” (45:00)
We discuss:
- Generosity and formation are naturally connected (1:00)
- Being invested in one’s neighborhood and one’s faith community. (7:06)
- The transition from being a bank CEO to working with churches to build cultures of generosity (16:41)
- The connection between generosity, fundraising and discipleship (20:30)
- Ministry funding is more about doing for than about getting from (25:30)
- Building a year-round culture of generosity (26:51)
- The close tie between generosity and discipleship (33:00)
- The pivotal role of a generosity team (34:30)
- How the “offering talk” is one of a pastor’s most important tools (36:30)
- The transformative impact of Joe’s visit to Magdala in Israel and a Hall that celebrates women of the Bible (52:00)
About Joe Park
Joe Park is CEO and principal of Horizons Stewardship, whose mission is to help churches and faith-based nonprofits grow disciples and fund ministry. Horizons team has assisted churches in raising over $9 billion in capital funding and uncountable amounts of annual and planned giving. Joe has consulted and taught extensively on the implementation of best practices in generosity, strategic planning, and change management.
Prior to joining Horizons in 2002, Joe served as CEO of Community Financial Group with banking, insurance, and investment presences in seven different cities. He was named one of Arkansas’ Outstanding Business leaders by Arkansas Business Magazine, was a recipient of the Sam Walton Business Leader Award, and was selected by the Secretary of the Air Force as a Civilian Leader representative to the Air War College. The Community Financial Group received the prestigious Arkansas Governor’s award for Most Outstanding Mid-Sized Company for Community Service. Joe has also achieved C.F.R.E. (Certified Fundraising Executive) status.
Joe earned a degree in Finance and Banking from the University of Arkansas and a master’s degree in Business Administration from Boston University. Joe and his family live in Dallas.
Show Notes
Joe Park is CEO and principal of Horizons Stewardship, whose mission is to help churches and faith-based nonprofits grow disciples and fund ministry. Among the many useful resources Joe recommends for building a culture of generosity includes Horizon’s GIVING365, a library of stewardship and generosity resources for churches, and Henri J. M. Nouwen’s timeless work on generosity, A Spirituality of Fundraising.
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission.
Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
This is a first for us: we recorded this bonus episode on location at a gathering we hosted in Austin, Texas! You’ll hear from eleven amazing leaders and practitioners of physical and digital ministry, or “phygital” as we’ve now learned to say. These pioneers in digital ministry will share their experiences, questions, and ideas for what the digital space makes possible for formation. From designing apps that reach younger generations to exploring virtual reality in the Metaverse, and so much more, this episode is interesting, informative, and inspiring!
In this episode, we discuss:
- What formation is and what the digital space makes possible? (3:20)
- Three experiences of digital ministry: worship, an app, and campus ministry (18:38)
- Experiments in the Metaverse and the possibilities of virtual reality (34:36)
- Ethics and digital ministry (44:37)
- Reaching the unchurched or dechurched in digital space (51:54)
Quotes:
-
“I think the church is supposed to be the one making that clarion call to adventure for people to accept and then we're supposed to equip them along the way to launch them back into the world they came from so they can awaken others. … All the things that happen along the way take us from walking towards Jesus to walking with Jesus.” -Christian Washington
-
There's an app that you can download that actually wakes you up inside of a homeless person's tent. It starts with 360 degree recording of a real person's tent being arrested and dragged out of her tent. Then it fades to black and then you open up in a virtual environment, it's still her tent, but you can reach out and grab her mug, and then it plays an audio story of where the mug came from. You can pick up her journal and flip through it, or you can pick up her family photo and it flashes back to a memory of her and her family. It’s immersive, empathy building storytelling where you take somebody and transport them into somebody else's life, experiencing what other people are going through and building empathy across people groups.” -Dan Bracken
Bios of Guests
Rachel Billups
Rachel Billups is a visionary, leader, speaker and author. Currently she serves as Senior Pastor at New Albany United Methodist Church, New Albany/Columbus, Ohio. Rachel draws on her love of people and passion to explore new venues for ministry and mission. Rachel is an ordained Elder within the United Methodist Church and holds a Bachelor’s Degree in Bible/Religion and History from Anderson University and a Master of Divinity Degree from Duke Divinity School. Rachel is a popular speaker for national gatherings and has recently authored BE BOLD: Finding Four Fierce published by Abingdon Press. You can find her on social media at: @rlbillups.
Dan Bracken
Dan has been on staff at Ginghamsburg Church since 2006, where he serves as Ginghamsburg’s communication director. Dan also leads the Ginghamsburg Design Studio, the church’s in-house creative media resourcing team where he practices all aspects of communication – video production, graphic design, social media, website development, app creation, creative storytelling, marketing and wayfinding.
Phil Dieke
Phil is a Deacon in the North Texas Conference, currently serving as the Associate Pastor of Discipleship and Digital Ministry at White Rock UMC in East Dallas. He chairs the Board of Church and Society for the North Texas Conference, is a facilitator for Project Unity's Together We Dine, sits on the Executive Board of Texas Impact and the Leadership Council for Faith Forward Dallas. Phil believes technology, like human nature, has the potential to do good and all kinds of harm in this world, and creation as a whole.
Rohini Drake
Rohini Drake is the Director of Welcoming and Online Ministries at First UMC Richardson.
Rachel Gilmore
Rachel is a former Peace Corp Volunteer who spent 10 years as a church planter and spiritual entrepreneur in Virginia Beach before serving as the Director of Recruiting, Assessing and Training of Church Planters for the United Methodist Church at Path 1/Discipleship Ministries. She now serves as the Director of New and Vital Faith in the Desert Southwest Conference and lives with her husband, two kids and two dogs in Phoenix, Arizona. She has also authored two books and launched two podcasts and co-founded Intersect: a Co-Planting Network in the fall of 2021.
Aaron Manes
Aaron Manes is a Spiritual Director, Enneagramist and haphazard participant in spiritual practices. Aaron is the Director of Online Ministry and Spiritual Engagement at Arapaho United Methodist Church where he produces content and leads small groups. Aaron is also a trained and practicing Spiritual Director and is nearing completion of a Somatic Inquiry certification (a meditative prayer practice using the body as a guide for healing).
Matt Rawle
Matt is an ordained elder in the United Methodist Church, and he loves meditating on scripture, listening to the heart of God, and inspiring people to build God’s kingdom through radical love. He currently serves as Lead Pastor of Asbury United Methodist Church in Bossier City, LA. He has authored eleven studies through Abingdon Press (Including Jesus Revealed, The Grace of Les Miserables, The Redemption of Scrooge, and Faith of a Mockingbird). Matt is a Louisiana delegate to the General and Jurisdictional Conferences, and the LA Conference Board of Ordained Ministry. He has a BA in Music from LSU and a MDiv from Duke Divinity School. His website is http://www.MattRawle.com.
Derrick Scott
Derrick is first a follower of Jesus. He seeks to offer everything he does, all that he has and all that he is in response to all God has done for him. His passion is raising up a new generation of leaders and laborers who will live as disciples of Jesus Christ to transform the world. Derrick believes all of life flows from our spiritual being. He believes the deeper we go into understanding who we are as souls, the more we are able to experience life in its fullness. Wherever he goes, his goal is to inspire individuals to steward this moment we are in by holding space for all to bring their true selves.
Jeremy Steele
Jeremy Steele is a writer, technologist, conspirator and spiritual entrepreneur who refuses to give up on Christianity. He is the Founder of the Zoay app and currently works two jobs as the Church Translator for the Changemaker initiative in Silicon Valley and as the Executive director of the Wesley Foundation in Mobile, Al. Jeremy also consults with digital ministry innovators and churches on developing new ministry and scaling up their digital strategy to impact more people and reach sustainability. You can find more about him and his work at Jeremy-Steele.com
Christian Washington
Christian Washington serves as lead pastor of Upper Room Heights, an intentionally multiethnic community of Chapelwood UMC. Prior to his work in ministry Christian started REAL Coaching, Incorporated (realcoaching.net) in 2004 as the first “rapid solutions” consulting practice that focuses on faith-based and non-profit organizations. Much in demand as a public speaker, Christian is a native of Los Angeles (It’s true, he is from Compton!) and enjoys inspiring leaders to make a significant impact on the world. He studied theology at Princeton Theological Seminary and management science at the University of California in San Diego. Christian sits on numerous non-profit boards, is a Project Curate Lily Fellow and a Fellow of the Loyola University Institute of Politics.
John Whirledge
John believes he was placed in the world by God to be a shepherd of people. He has served churches as a youth pastor, worship pastor and now finds himself immersed in all things related to digital ministry. His greatest joy comes from seeing people connect with Jesus, wherever they are physically, spiritually, emotionally, or anywhere else in between.
Show Notes
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission.
Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
Humans are equipped with an innate capacity for spirituality and our brains become more resilient and robust the more we engage with spirituality. This groundbreaking research from Dr. Lisa Miller has enormous implications for the church. Dr. Miller joins our podcast to make a case for why the church is desperately needed today, not just as an antidote to the “diseases of despair,” but also as a key and necessary ingredient for human thriving. From her own personal journey of spiritual awakening to her passionate plea to bring religion back into the public square, Dr. Miller shares insight and inspiration that is not to be missed.
Quotations
“Sometimes God tells you when there’s only one answer and that answer is ‘yes!’” (07:12)
“Just as we have two eyes, two ears and a nose, every single baby is born with a capacity for spiritual life” (12:01) (Quote for Graphic)
“We can no longer locate diagnosis, suffering, or despair at the level of the individual. This is a culture and climate crisis. Our entire society needs to put our spiritual heart back into the center of who we are.” (23:30)
“I feel that our culture at large is in a state of developmental depression. This is the knock at the door for our own spiritual awakening and deepening.” (31:10)
“The greatest gift that I wish for my children is not that they ace AP Chemistry, it's that they can develop a sacred relationship through which they find guidance in very unpredictable waters.” (38:56)
We discuss:
- Dr. Miller’s ‘aha’ moment that led her to study spirituality and the brain (5:23)
- Key research about the brain not to be missed (9:00)
- Our capacity of spiritual life is one third innate and two-thirds environmental (14:40)
- Why we can’t throw religion out of the public square (15:50)
- Dr. Miller’s work with the military to integrate spiritual life into the armed forces (19:30)
- The impact of spiritual decline on the mental well-being of our youth (21:30)
- The path forward out of the epidemic of despair among young people (26:20)
- Research insights about the impact of spirituality on children and young people (36:38)
- We are all born with the ability to see and know God (42:30)
About Lisa Miller
Lisa Miller, Ph.D., is the New York Times bestselling author of The Spiritual Child and The Awakened Brain, and a professor in the Clinical Psychology Program at Teachers College, Columbia University. She is the founder and director of the Spirituality Mind Body Institute, the first Ivy League graduate program and research institute in spirituality and psychology, and has held over a decade of joint appointments in the Department of Psychiatry at Columbia University Medical School. Dr. Miller has published more than one hundred peer-reviewed articles in leading journals in leading journals such as The American Journal of Psychiatry and the Journal of the American Academy of Child and Adolescent Psychiatry. She is also Editor of the Oxford Handbook of Psychology and Spirituality and Founding Co-Editor-in-Chief of Spirituality in Clinical Practice.
Show Notes
Lisa Miller is a professor in the Clinical Psychology Program at Teachers College, Columbia University and Founder and Director of the Spirituality Mind Body Institute at Teachers College, Columbia University. Find out more about her work at her work with the awakened brain and the spiritual child at her website.
Lisa Miller is author of The Awakened Brain: The New Science of Spirituality and Our Quest for an Inspired Life and the New York Times bestseller The Spiritual Child: The New Science on Parenting for Health and Lifelong Thriving.
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission.
Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
Our podcast aims to “spark the Spirit within you” and what you will hear in this conversation with Anne Snyder is a person whose spirit is on fire for something bigger than herself. What an inspired and inspiring time we had with Anne Snyder–we can’t wait for you to listen! From her vulnerable sharing of her own formation story to her reflection on why institutions matter today and how we can become whole people, Anne offers us so much to be hopeful for. In addition to her wise and thoughtful articulation of these ideas, Anne also shares inspiring stories of the everyday heroes she’s encountered who humbly bring people together, working to be “agents of repair” in their institutions, their neighborhoods, and on their front porches.
Enjoy this dynamic conversation, share with others, and keep the conversation going! Thanks for listening.
Quotations
“Love, to be, to have integrity, has to suffer with.” (12:34)
“If we can name some of the deeper principles at work in a healthy organization that save people and provide a bridge in times of displacement and loss, maybe that's where we need to begin in the century of so much institutional distrust. (15:01)
“Institutions are the bridge for us between individual self-actualization and contribution and understanding our role within something larger.” (19:56)
“We awaken to the deepest truth of things always in dialogue, and institutions are the containers that allow us to experience that dialogue, even when it's discordant.” (21:21)
“I long to be welcomed into an alternative reality through words and bread and hugs, and tears and shared prayers.” (49:00)
We discuss:
- Anne’s formation story (12:00)
- Why institutions bring important gifts in these challenging times (14:53)
- The deeper stream of change and growth available to us (19:30)
- What it means to to be a whole human (23:30)
- Positive change through institutionalists with a revolutionary impulse (29:50)
- Every day, people “suffer their way to serve our world and keep our democracy alive” (37:18)
- How institutions can be life-giving and uniting (38:00)
- The mystery of God plays out in the mix people, neighborhoods and churches (45:05)
- Anne’s current formation lies in the tensions of being a “weaver of people.” (48:03)
- Being a woman in a public and the role of the feminine spirit in the world (52:28)
About Anne Snyder
Anne Snyder is the editor in chief of Comment Magazine and oversees Comment’s partner project Breaking Ground. She's the host of the podcast The Whole Person Evolution and co-editor of Breaking Ground: Charting Our Future in a Pandemic Year that came out in January of 2022. Her book, The Fabric of Character: A Wise Giver’s Guide to Renewing our Social and Moral Landscape was published in 2019.
Before leading Comment, she directed the Philanthropy Round Table Character Initiative, a program seeking to help foundations and business leaders strengthen the “middle ring” of morally formative institutions. In addition to regular pieces for Comment, Anne has also published in The Atlantic Monthly, The Washington Post, and Bittersweet Monthly, and her writings are available at her site, Souls and Silos.
Show Notes
Anne Snyder is editor in chief of Comment Magazine
Anne Snyder is the author of The Fabric of Character: A Wise Giver’s Guide to Renewing our Social and Moral Landscape (2019) and co-editor of Breaking Ground: Charting Our Future in a Pandemic Year (2022).
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission.
Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
We kick off Season 7 of the Igniting Imagination podcast in conversation with pastor and social entrepreneur Tim Soerens about the immense opportunity to reenergize the church today by daring to be “faithfully present” to what God imagines for us in our churches, our neighborhoods, and in our daily lives. The challenges the church faces today are very real, yet Tim shows us a path forward that blends an active spiritual journey with the material realities of daily life. Tim provides insights from his work as well as his experience as a dad with three children.
In this conversation we discuss:
- The purpose of the church (7:03)
- Why we are at a crossroads in the life of the church (9:53)
- ‘What is God’s dream right here in my neighborhood and right here in my church, right now?’ (13:25)
- The church is both events in a building at set times AND people out in their neighborhoods every day. (17:01)
- Our spiritual formation is happening to us all the time(21:03)
- How we can avoid a “path of despair” and move the church forward (25:00)
- How Tim puts this into action in his own daily life, with his three children. (30:13)
- Tim’s own continual process of spiritual formation and how he lives it on a daily basis. (35:13)
About Tim Soerens
Tim Soerens is a pastor, social entrepreneur, and co-founding director of the Parish Collective, a growing network and global movement of Christians reimagining what it means to be church in, with and for the neighborhood. He’s the author of Everywhere You Look, Discovering the Church Right Where You Are and co-author of The New Parish: How Neighborhood Churches Transform Mission, Discipleship and Community. He co-founded Neighborhood Economics which catalyzes entrepreneurship as a path to wealth for marginalized communities and has helped to raise over 3 million dollars. With a global reach, Tim speaks to organizations and denominations across the United States, Canada, the United Kingdom, Australia, and New Zealand.
Show Notes
More information about Tim Soerens can be found on his website.
Tim Soerens is the author of Everywhere You Look, Discovering the Church Right Where You Are.
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission.
Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
This season on Igniting Imagination host Lisa Greenwood, co-host Tim Soerens, and special guests explore spiritual formation: what is formation and what is the church’s role in formation? Join our email, contact us, and find more resources from Leadership Ministry at tmf-fdn.org
We conclude our season on Jacob’s Bones (the core truths, values and practices to carry forward in the new church) in the wilderness where identity and purpose can become clear. Bishop Palmer reflects on the gifts of this wilderness time in the church and through his no-nonsense, compelling way, challenges the church to move beyond navel-gazing to face out to the world. This inspired and hope-filled conversation invites us to consider what it really means to be the church today. Bishop Palmer embodies the passion and possibility of the church’s bold witness for the present and future church. What will be your bold witness for the church?
In this conversation:
- Lisa and Gil answer the question: “What do you hope is true about the church 20-30 years from now?” (01:29)
- Bishop Palmer reflects on the gifts of wilderness (09:43)
- What Bishop Palmer means when he says the church “campaigned to be chaplains of the middle class” (16:34)
- Helping the church face out to the world (22:41)
- “We overvalued being respected and being nice” (32:22)
- Bishop Palmer talks racism, mass incarceration, poverty (37:44)
- What Bishop Palmer hopes is true about the church in 20-30 years (52:19)
QUOTES
- “The fact that there are many natural born leaders that are incarcerated, how are we tapping that resource to learn more about leadership? And how are we making room for them in the pew, in the life of the church?” -Bishop Gregory Palmer [50:16]
- “I believe the Gospel is large enough to have whether you want to say multiple angles of view or a wide angle of view.” -Bishop Gregory Palmer [55:26]
Bishop Gregory Palmer’s bio
Bishop Palmer is the Resident Bishop of the West Ohio Conference of The United Methodist Church. Born and reared in Philadelphia, Bishop Gregory Vaughn Palmer is a “child of the church,” the son of a retired United Methodist pastor and a schoolteacher in the Philadelphia Public School system. A graduate of Duke University Divinity School, Palmer was ordained a deacon in 1977. In 1981, he was elected to full membership and ordained an elder. Palmer also served as superintendent. He was elected to the episcopacy in 2000. He has served as president of the General Board of Higher Education and Ministry and president of the Council of Bishops and he is currently a member of the Standing Committee on Central Conference Matters and chair of the Comprehensive Africa Plan. He also is a board member of several organizations, including The United Methodist Publishing House, Methodist Theological School in Ohio, United Theological Seminary and OhioHealth. Married for 45 years to his wife Cynthia, they are the parents of two adult children, Monica and Aaron.
RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
Read Gil Rendle’s paper “Jacob’s Bones” for free off our TMF website here.
Bishop Palmer’s Podcast (with Bishop Easterling and Bishop McKee) is The Unfinished Church. Visit their website here: https://theunfinishedchurch.org
Bishop Palmer’s Leadership Clinics are inspiring! Find out more here: https://www.westohioumc.org/clinics
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission.
Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
Andy Crouch believes that one of the biggest challenges of pastoral ministry right now is not being seduced by the false vision of human flourishing that our culture offers and that technology optimizes. “You’re not going to get to the Kingdom of God by providing these religious goods and services that your system has been set up to provide and that technology can help you optimize,” Crouch says. “You're only going to get there by finding ways to reinvest in small communities, small enough for people to actually be known and to actually encounter God together.” This conversation begins with a robust discussion of how we have displaced the need for authentic relationships with the ease of technology and concludes with real clarity for how leaders in the church can lead us back to true community. To be clear, Crouch is not saying to get rid of technology and devices, rather he shows us how to put them in their proper place in our church and world. Andy articulates a deeply thoughtful, challenging, and compelling vision for the church’s role in restoring true community and facilitating human flourishing in the world. We can’t wait for you to listen!
Our Leadership Ministry team has returned again and again to Andy’s book and to this conversation with him… here are some key points in this episode:
- Gil reflects on Jacob’s Bones in light of the denominational divisions happening right now (01:36)
- Andy describes the false vision of human flourishing (12:18)
- The life we’re looking for, the true vision of human flourishing (15:20)
- Why there are no technological solutions to the problems technology has created (27:53)
- Putting tech in its proper place in our lives and in the church (30:32)
- Why Andy says “This is all very Wesleyan!” (34:30)
- Why the numbers 3 and 12 are SO important for leaders (42:42)
QUOTES
- “I think the task of every shepherd, whether you’re ordained or a lay shepherd like I am, is to find ways to circumvent the production system and get people into real relationships.” -Andy Crouch [33:57]
- “The problem is we think culture making requires scale because we think about the millions of consumers, but the actual creation of new culture happens in these tiny groups. And it’s because creation requires trust. It’s the most risky thing human beings do.” -Andy Crouch [48:40]
Andy Crouch’s bio
Andy Crouch is the author of four books; he is also a partner for theology and culture at Praxis, an organization that works as a creative engine for redemptive entrepreneurship. For more than ten years, Crouch was a producer and then executive editor at Christianity Today. His work and writing have been featured in The New York Times, The Wall Street Journal, Time, Best Christian Writing, and Best Spiritual Writing.
RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
Read Gil Rendle’s paper “Jacob’s Bones” for free off our TMF website here.
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission.
Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
Grace Church is the perfect name for the now large, multi-site, United Methodist congregation in Southwest Florida that Jorge Acevedo started two decades ago. “Help us be the church for people that nobody sees” has been the church’s focus and that is exactly the church they have become. Grace Church is taking the healing ministry of Jesus seriously by bringing together people, places, and processes that make it possible for those who are affected by addiction to heal–and Grace Church is leading the way as one of America’s most effective churches in recovery ministries. Jorge shares his own story of how God’s saving grace saved him from addiction and offers a rich theology of salvation and formation that is deeply moving and convicting. Do we have the courage as the church to create spaces for people who need help and healing?
In this conversation:
- Gil Rendle considers what resilience looks like for the church right now (01:01)
- Jorge shares his story of recovery from addiction and how his experience of God’s grace has shaped his ministry (10:27)
- What is the role of healing in Christian ministry? (14:50)
- Jorge’s conviction that spiritual leaders primarily do three things (18:39)
- Why Jorge says the “hardest thing for a spiritual leader to lead is themselves” and his wisdom for leading your life well (22:37)
- Creating a disciple-making culture (29:59)
- The depth at the heart of innovative ministry (38:09)
- The one question Jorge asked NT Wright that guides his vision for the church’s future (50:53)
QUOTES
- “Deep within our theology and the early practices of Methodist was this desire to see the goodness and the grace of God penetrate our addictions and our afflictions and compulsive behaviors.” -Jorge Acevedo [12:31]
- “So we believe that God is at work in every person in every human heart, but do we have the courage to join God in those spaces and in those places and amongst those people who may be very far from God?” -Jorge Acevedo [36:08]
Jorge Acevedo’s bio
Jorge is the Lead Pastor at Grace Church, a multi-site, United Methodist congregation in Southwest Florida with three campuses.
Jorge is a 1984 graduate of Asbury College where he received a Bachelor of Arts Degree majoring in Bible. He is also a graduate of Asbury Theological Seminary with a Master of Divinity Degree. He is currently working on a Doctor of Ministry degree from United Theological Seminary focusing on building generative teams for congregational vitality and sustainability.
He’s been a faithful United Methodist, serving for many years as a delegate to the General Conference; he also served on the Call to Action Steering Team and the Commission on a Way Forward.
Jorge has co-authored and written many books, including: A Field Guide for Methodist Fresh Expressions, Neighboring and The Grace-Full Life: God’s All-Reaching, Soul-Saving, Character-Shaping, Never-Ending Love.
RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
Read Gil Rendle’s paper “Jacob’s Bones” for free off our TMF website here.
Find out more about Fresh Expressions here.
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission.
Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
Gil Rendle says in the intro that this conversation with Father Greg Boyle is “one of the richest conversations I’ve ever been in.” How grateful we are to have recorded this beautiful and rich back and forth between Gil, Rev. Lisa Greenwood, Father Boyle and Rev. Justin Coleman! Father Boyle’s approach to gang intervention rehabilitation and re-entry at his organization Homeboy Industries is not really about providing services, although they do provide holistic services from education to tattoo removal. The real heart of the work is relationship and creating a culture of kinship, tenderness, and joy. Boyle returns again and again to the heart of God and the heart of Jesus, inviting us again and again to embrace our own belovedness and everyone else’s belovedness.
In this conversation…
- Gil shares the difference between the work of improving and the work of creating (01:06)
- The short game of trying experiments and the long game of deep institutional work (04:39)
- Father Boyle’s vocational journey that led him to start Homeboy Industries (16:41)
- Providing services vs being in relationship (22:35)
- The theology that guides Father Boyle (31:58)
- When there is so much grief and pain, how do you not get caught up in a constant cycle of desolation? (36:54)
- Creating a culture of the Gospel (42:03)
- Why Father Boyle says “Gang members have taught me everything of value.” (50:41)
QUOTES
- “We’re always getting ahead of ourselves, right? Just about tomorrow or lamenting what I did yesterday. Ouch. Why did I say that? And as opposed to staying anchored in the present moment. I think that’s where the joy is.” -Father Boyle [27:41]
- “Don’t just look at the services. Look at the language that’s being used. Look at the approach towards the other person.” -Rev. Coleman [48:54]
Father Greg Boyle’s bio
Gregory Boyle is an American Jesuit priest and the founder of Homeboy Industries in Los Angeles, the largest gang-intervention, rehabilitation, and re-entry program in the world. He has received the California Peace Prize and been inducted into the California Hall of Fame. In 2014, the White House named Boyle a Champion of Change. He received the University of Notre Dame’s 2017 Laetare Medal, the oldest honor given to American Catholics. He is the acclaimed author of Tattoos on the Heart and Barking to the Choir.
The Whole Language is his third book, and all net proceeds go to Homeboy Industries.
Rev. Justin Coleman’s bio
Justin grew up in Texas, and attended Southern Methodist University, graduating in 2000 with a major in religious studies. He, too, was highly active in SMU’s Wesley Foundation, and served as Associate Pastor at SMU’s Wesley Foundation from 2001 to 2003 as he began seminary studies at SMU’s Perkins School of Theology. Justin transferred to Duke Divinity School in 2003 and graduated with a Master of Divinity in 2005. Justin’s first clergy appointment was to University UMC, as an intern in 2004 and then as Associate Pastor from 2005 to 2007.
In 2007, Justin was called back to the Texas Annual Conference of the United Methodist Church, where he is an elder, and was appointed Associate Pastor at St. Luke’s United Methodist Church in Houston, Texas. For six years from 2008 to 2014, Justin served as the Executive and Lead Pastor of the Gethsemane Campus of St. Luke’s Church and led it through a remarkable period of growth in ministry and service to its community.
From 2014 to June 2017 Justin served as the Chief Ministry Officer of the United Methodist Publishing House in Nashville, Tennessee. During this time, he has also continued to frequently offer lectures, sermons, and lead worship.
RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
Read Gil Rendle’s paper “Jacob’s Bones” for free off our TMF website here.
Find out more about Homeboy Industries here.
Father Greg Boyle’s bestselling book is Tattoos on the Heart, his newest book is The Whole Language. All proceeds go to Homeboy Industries.
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission.
Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
“America’s crisis of despair crashed into my life while I was getting paid to think about joy,” is how Dr. Angela Gorrell begins her book on joy and that is where we begin our conversation. What is authentic joy and how do you experience joy when there is so much to NOT be joyful about? One key, says Dr. Gorrell, is to recognize joy as a gift, like grace, and not something you can pursue like the “choose joy” coffee mugs and wall hangings imply. This episode includes a dynamic discussion between Lisa and Gil about the “we” and “I” culture that carries into their conversation with Angela: what are the communal and individual aspects of joy and ultimately: what is the church’s role in cultivating space for people to experience and receive joy?
What to listen for
- Lisa and Gil discuss the “I” based culture and the “we” based culture (00:54) and what the church has to offer
- How despair came crashing into Angela’s life (12:54)
- Joy as a gift, not something you can choose (18:30)
- Gil wonders if we do have to choose to be open to joy for the gift to be received (26:12)
- How we all have a “flashlight” to look for truth, beauty, goodness (28:37)
- What’s the role of the church in cultivating joy? (36:12)
- The Future of Church Project (42:38)
QUOTES
- “Joy is about open hands. It’s about a posture that we have in the world. It’s about a readiness.” -Dr. Angela Gorrell [22:12]
- “We can't receive a gift if our hands are closed.” -Dr. Angela Gorrell [28:08]
Angela Gorrell’s Bio
Dr. Angela Williams Gorrell joined Baylor's George W. Truett Theological Seminary in Fall 2019 as Assistant Professor of Practical Theology. Prior to joining the faculty at Baylor University, she was an Associate Research Scholar at the Yale Center for Faith & Culture, working on the Theology of Joy and the Good Life Project, and a lecturer in Divinity and Humanities at Yale University in New Haven, Connecticut. She is an ordained pastor with 14 years of ministry experience.
Dr. Gorrell is passionate about finding issues that matter to people and shining the light of the Gospel on them. She is the author of always on: practicing faith in a new media landscapeand a new book, The Gravity of Joy: A Story of Being Lost and Found, which shares findings of the joy project while addressing America’s opioid and suicide crises. Dr. Gorrell’s expertise is in the areas of theology and contemporary culture, education and formation, meaning-making, joy, new media, and youth and emerging adults. Dr. Gorrell regularly consults, speaks, and leads workshops and retreats on her research and areas of expertise.
RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
Read Gil Rendle’s paper “Jacob’s Bones” for free off our TMF website here.
Visit Angela’s Gorrell’s website for more information about her work including a free book discussion guide, and information about her speaking and consulting.
Angela’s Gorrell book is The Gravity of Joy: A Story of Being Lost and Found.
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission.
Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
What better way to start our season about the values the church must carry forward into the future than with the ‘gadfly of the church,’ Bishop Will Willimon! Co-host Gil Rendle points out that as the gadfly of the church, Will both loves and cares about the institution AND asks critically important questions that challenge the church to be better. You won’t want to miss this compelling story-packed episode that includes topics like how Jesus disrupts contented churches, why purpose is so important right now and Will’s advice to pastors in today’s context.
In this conversation, you’ll hear:
- Gil Rendle shares the meaning behind his paper “Jacob’s Bones.” What should we carry forward? (02:52)
- Will Willimon’s call to ministry and relationship with the church (13:36)
- How Jesus Christ disrupts otherwise happy, contented churches (19:46)
- Why getting clear on purpose is so important and how easy it is to get distracted (22:19)
- How to stay focused on what to keep and what to let go of (33:17)
- Willimon’s hope for the church 20, 30, 40 years from now (51:00)
QUOTES
- “It is easy to get distracted in the present moment. And sometimes I think the church argues about some of the stuff we’re fighting over because it's’ easier to fight over those subjects than to have a good argument about how can we have a future? How can we welcome in the two or three generations of Christians that we have excluded? That’s hard, and maybe that’s why we’ve been arguing.” -Will Willimon [25:59]
- “There’s times when I think sometimes our Methodist problems are due to the fact that maybe we have taken our eye off of the ball. We have not allowed the main thing to be the main thing, and we’ve had our arguments. But at the end of the day, those arguments have got to answer to Jesus Christ.” -Will Willimon [29:17]
Will Willimon’s Bio
The Reverend Dr. William H. Willimon is Professor of the Practice of Christian Ministry at the Divinity School, Duke University. He served eight years as Bishop of the North Alabama Conference of The United Methodist Church, where he led the 157,000 Methodists and 792 pastors in North Alabama. For twenty years prior to the episcopacy, he was Dean of the Chapel and Professor of Christian Ministry at Duke University, Durham, North Carolina. Willimon is the author of over 80 books. His articles have appeared in many publications including Theology Today, Interpretation, Liturgy, and Christianity Today.
RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
More information about Bishop Will Willimon can be found on his website.
Will Willimon is the author of 80 books. His latest is “Don’t Look Back: Methodist Hope for What Comes Next.”
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission.
Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
Season 6 of Igniting Imagination is coming soon! Host Lisa Greenwood, co-host Gil Rendle, and special guests from diverse theological perspectives discuss what core values and truths to carry forward and include in the future church. What values and truths will you carry forward? Our guests this season are:
- Bishop Will Willimon
- Dr. Angela Gorrell
- Father Greg Boyle and Rev. Justin Coleman
- Rev. Jorge Acevedo
- Andy Crouch
- Bishop Gregory Palmer
We’re so grateful to share these conversations with you and pray they spark the spirit within you and ignite your imagination for what’s possible in your life and ministry.
Join our weekly email, contact us, and find more resources from Leadership Ministry at tmf-fdn.org/leadership-ministry. If you like our podcast, please share your favorite episodes with friends and colleagues and leave us a review. Thanks for listening!
Our most-downloaded episode is back (!) for one big reason: this conversation remains incredibly relevant today. We are inviting you to listen again or for the first time to Tod Bolsinger because the way he talks about how to manage change, stress and resistance without burning out is as practical as it is inspiring. In this conversation, you’ll hear:
- What’s the most important thing to hold on to in the face of change (05:54)
- Tod’s response to a leader who said “I think I can lead change, I’m not sure I can survive it.” (07:21)
- Who in history is the exemplar of tempered resilience and what we can learn from him (11:52)
- What are the qualities of leaders who can persevere under trial (14:20)
- Why ‘heat’ shapes a leader and Tod’s helpful blacksmithing metaphor (19:39)
- Why a rule of life and a rhythm of leading and not leading are vitally important (25:11)
- What are the practices I need in order to become resilient? (28:31)
QUOTES
- “The hardest thing about leading change is having to grapple with our own vulnerability.” -Dr. Tod Bolsinger [11:18]
- “Empathy is what we need for leadership. Because when you attune to people and they feel cared for, they will trust you and go further into their own pain and further into their own discomfort if they don’t.” -Dr. Tod Bolsinger [16:11]
RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
Follow Tod Bolsinger: @todbol
For more resources from Tod and his team, text change to 66866.
Tod Bolsinger is the author of Canoeing the Mountains, It Takes a Church to Raise a Christian, and most recently, Tempered Resilience: How Leaders are Formed in the Crucible of Change.
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission.
Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
Joe Stabile started centering prayer at age 14. If you’ve ever wondered how a lifetime of centering prayer shapes a person, listen to this conversation with Joe. Throughout his life, Joe has had a constant posture of discernment and a deep trust in where God is leading. Joe is so rooted in the Spirit; listening to him, being around him, is like jumping into a cold pool of water on a hot summer day. In this soul-refreshing conversation, you’ll hear:
- Joe’s story of his life with God and his deep trust in God that has led him on an interesting, unexpected, and awesome life journey (to say the least!) (04:53)
- The Seven Classical Disciplines and which ones feel particularly important right now (17:00)
- The definition of ‘spiritual practice’ that made us go ‘wow!’ (21:32)
- Advice for leaders in the church who are facing stress and burnout (27:36)
QUOTES
- “90% of centering prayer is about your intention. What is your intention when you sit for this 20 minutes? What’s your intention? And your intention is to be totally open to God. Those six words: to be totally open to God. ” -Joe Stabile [25:27]
- “We can choose any of the spiritual practices or disciplines and find times to incorporate them into our lives and allow them to move us forward. Going back for me, going back always to contemplative prayer or centering prayer. Everybody can find 20 minutes everyday to just stop and do centering prayer.” -Joe Stabile [33:02]
About Joe Stabile
Rev. Joe Stabile is a United Methodist Church pastor as well as Co-Founder and Animator of Life in the Trinity Ministry, in Dallas, Texas. He has served in vocational ministry for more than forty years, with combined experience in local church pastoral ministry, spiritual direction, retreat leadership, pastoral care and mentoring. In addition to serving as Associate Pastor at First UMC Dallas, Joe leads the Contemplative Cohort at Life in the Trinity Ministry.
RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
For more information about the Contemplative Cohort Joe leads at Life in the Trinity Ministry, visit their website here.
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission.
Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
Danielle Shroyer’s curiosity about the spiritual path took an unexpected turn in 2018. This founder of the emerging church movement and deeply faithful Christian leader took the path East, towards the wisdom and practices of the Eastern traditions. Her blog, Be a Soul Ninja, chronicles her experiences engaging in different Eastern religious thoughts and practices. So what does it mean to Be a Soul Ninja? In this conversation, we discuss:
- Why Danielle is a ‘hot mess’ at meditating and still names meditation as the practice that has helped her to grow the most in her faith (6:30)
- The difference between meditation and centering prayer and why Danielle does an extra day of meditation each week (10:55)
- How to start meditating (14:04)
- What it means to “Be a Soul Ninja” and why being a ninja necessarily involves being in community with others (19:17)
- What would it look like to spiritually direct a whole community? (24:47)
- What is spiritual direction and why it’s important for clergy (27:40)
- How her blog “Be a Soul Ninja” got started after a rejected book proposal, her approach to writing the blog and an excerpt from a blog post (31:53)
QUOTES
- “All of that practice, I think what it does, is help me just be with myself in the reality of who I am. And I think that is incredibly important for leaders to do, because I just have to see myself exactly as I am. All the good stuff. All the bad stuff. All the stuff that’s extra boring and not worth conversation on either side of good or bad. And I think that helps me sorta operate from a more centered place, because there’s just no hiding from yourself if you sit and meditate in your own thoughts everyday.” -Danielle Shroyer [09:43]
- “Really the goal in meditation is not to stop thinking. It’s just not to attach to your thoughts.” -Danielle Shroyer [17:36]
About Danielle Shroyer
Danielle spent over a decade in pastoral leadership and was a founding member of the emerging church movement. She speaks often across the country on issues of theology, faith, culture, and story, and blogs at beasoulninja.com. Danielle is the author of Original Blessing: Putting Sin in its Rightful Place; Where Jesus Prayed: Illuminations on the Lord’s Prayer in the Holy Land; and The Boundary Breaking God: An Unfolding Story of Hope and Promise.
RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
Find out more about today’s guest, Danielle Shroyer, including information about Spiritual Direction, on her website http://www.beasoulninja.com. You can also sign up for her weekly blogs to be delivered to your inbox.
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission.
Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here. We send emails about each episode and include additional related resources related to the episode’s topic. We know your inbox is inundated these days, we aim to send you content that is inspiring, innovative, and impactful for your life and ministry.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
Shannon Hopkins has been asking, “God, what is the church you are building today?” for decades–and she’s been living that question. Shannon’s pursuit of new forms of Christian community inspired her to move from Texas to London where she has continued to build an incredible network of friends and colleagues who are living the questions, too. Through her organization RootedGood, Shannon is bringing spiritual entrepreneurs and innovators together to support one another and discern what it means to do the Gospel-inspired work that transforms the world today. In this conversation, we get to ask the one who has been living the questions to answer some questions such as: what have you learned since you’ve been playing in the sandbox, experimenting with new forms of Christian community? Shannon’s insights about the church today and her inspiring personal story of faith will leave you filled with hope and perhaps saying (as we said at the conclusion of the conversation): Glory be!
QUOTES
- “If we don’t look at training and sustainability like new economic models, we’re not going to see a movement of God that transforms the church or the world.” -Shannon Hopkins [11:24]
- “We were all created to do good work. And if we really truly believe that, then when we meet people, then I want to know, ‘Well, what’s the good work? What’s the good work God created you to do? And how can I fuel that? And how can I accelerate that?’” -Shannon Hopkins [32:45]
TIMESTAMPS
- [00:00] Intro
- [00:55] What has inspired the hosts about this class
- [02:08] About Shannon Hopkins
- [06:14] How she was formed
- [12:38] Texas to London
- [22:35] What she brings into her ministry today
- [25:41] The courage to break out of the mold
- [29:27] Extreme networking and collaborations
- [33:02] What is giving her hope
- [41:47] Rapid fire questions
- [47:13] A blessing
- [48:33] Outro
RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
For more information about RootedGood’s resources and to access the Mycelium Network to connect with other leaders, visit their website here.
Listen to Shannon Hopkins’ previous episode on Igniting Imagination here.
RSVP for the Locke Leader Virtual Event You are invited to attend a virtual event honoring the 2022 Tom Locke Innovative Leader Award recipients. Earlier this year, four extraordinary leaders received a surprising letter from our organization. Without their knowledge, each leader had been nominated and selected to receive the second annual Tom Locke Innovative Leader Award. We would be honored if you would join us to celebrate them at a virtual event on Sunday, May 22 at 5 pm CT / 6 pm ET. RSVP and find out more about the Locke Award at award.wesleyaninvestive.org. Expect to be inspired by their stories and filled with hope for the future of the church’s witness! (45 minute virtual event, register today!)
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission.
Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
Shannon Hopkins Bio
Shannon Hopkins is an extreme networker and social entrepreneur living in East London. Her passion for community and individual transformation has launched or influenced the formation of fifteen campaigns, projects, and organizations — and trained over 200 social entrepreneurs. In 2008, Shannon was awarded the Women of the UN and UK’s Annual Woman of Peace Award for a campaign called The Truth isn’t Sexy that addressed the demand side of human trafficking.
A Texas native, in 2004 Shannon moved to London and founded Matryoshka Haus, which was part incubator, part community, part training organization. In 2019 Matryoshka Haus launched 3 new initiatives, including Rooted Good, where Shannon is co-founder and Lead Cultivator. RootedGood empowers social impact organizations and leaders to make good in the world through tools and games that help implement design thinking, produce creative ideas, launch new ventures and so much more.
Coté Soerens has made her neighborhood in South Park, Seattle her world. She and her husband Tim moved their family into the under-resourced neighborhood with a deep desire to discover God’s dreams for the community and participate in helping those dreams come to fruition alongside their neighbors. Coté started a coffee shop, Resistencia Coffee, that has become a third space for neighbors to gather, to build relationships with one another and to discern next steps towards making their neighborhood thrive. When you listen to Coté tell her story and the story of South Park, you’ll hear how the Spirit has worked again and again, inspiring people to dream dreams and see visions and make connections that has ultimately made the seemingly impossible possible. Faith can move mountains – and, it turns out, highways! We can’t wait for you to hear what God has done through Coté’s love for–and deep commitment to–her neighbors and her neighborhood.
QUOTES
- “My journey, I think, has been one of trying to weave together what does the gospel look like in the public sphere.” -Coté Soerens [12:30]
- “Let’s live a life that is conducive to catching the right wave.” -Coté Soerens [27:12]
TIMESTAMPS
- [00:00] Intro
- [01:08] About Coté Soerens
- [04:15] A little bit of a problem
- [10:35] What’s the future of the church?
- [16:22] Planting a church in South Park
- [23:45] Where her ideas emerge from
- [27:35] Why stay connected to the church
- [33:15] What breaks her heart and gives her life
- [43:59] Rapid questions
- [47:36] A blessing
- [49:04] Outro
RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
Cultivate South Park is “Connecting Neighbors and their Gifts to Co Create a thriving and equitable South Park.” Find out more on their website.
Learn more about Resistencia Coffee in Seattle, Washington at their website.
RSVP for the Locke Leader Virtual Event You are invited to attend a virtual event honoring the 2022 Tom Locke Innovative Leader Award recipients. Earlier this year, four extraordinary leaders received a surprising letter from our organization. Without their knowledge, each leader had been nominated and selected to receive the second annual Tom Locke Innovative Leader Award. We would be honored if you would join us to celebrate them at a virtual event on Sunday, May 22 at 5 pm CT / 6 pm ET. RSVP and find out more about the Locke Award at award.wesleyaninvestive.org. Expect to be inspired by their stories and filled with hope for the future of the church’s witness! (45 minute virtual event, register today!)
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission.
Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
Coté Soerens Bio
Originally from Chile, Coté has made Seattle her home, where she lives with her husband Tim and their sons.
She has served as the founding executive director of Puentes, an immigrant-led organization mobilizing mental health resources to support families affected by immigration policies. Coté is a founding partner of Resistencia Coffee, a neighborhood coffee shop in the heart of South Park.
She is also the co-founder of Cultivate South Park, a non-profit that lends infrastructure to neighborhood community development projects such as the Urban Fresh Food Collective, Reconnect South Park, and the South Park Arts and Culture Collective.
Arrabon means “a foretaste of the kingdom.” This conversation with David Bailey is full of Arrabon! David describes the significance of the numbers 8 and 2008 in his life. From an early age, David saw the benefits and challenges of cultivating a diverse community where everyone can thrive. His passion for God and scripture, together with his love of music and vision for reconciled communities led him to start Arrabon. Arrabon, like David, takes the long view of reconciliation, walking alongside congregations and organizations to facilitate conversation and curriculum that leads to both healing and justice. Although this topic perhaps feels heavy and even overwhelming at times, David’s joyful approach and hopeful vision is pure grace and just what is needed for such a time as this.
QUOTES
- “You can’t have justice without reconciliation. You can’t have reconciliation without justice.” -David Bailey [10:14]
- “Let’s not complain about what we see was going wrong in curse of darkness. What does it look like if we be the light?” -David Bailey [24:28]
TIMESTAMPS
- [00:00] Intro
- [01:16] About David Bailey
- [03:11] Eight and 2008
- [09:32] About Arrabon
- [14:48] What we need to get through
- [21:37] You have to practice being a Christian
- [25:44] Negotiating anti-blackness in his work
- [33:47] Repentance as a verb
- [38:12] Rapid fire questions
- [45:36] A blessing
- [47:00] Outro
RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
Learn more about David Bailey’s ministry at Arrabon by visiting their website here. View David’s TEDx Talk from 2015 here.
RSVP for the Locke Leader Virtual Event You are invited to attend a virtual event honoring the 2022 Tom Locke Innovative Leader Award recipients. Earlier this year, four extraordinary leaders received a surprising letter from our organization. Without their knowledge, each leader had been nominated and selected to receive the second annual Tom Locke Innovative Leader Award. We would be honored if you would join us to celebrate them at a virtual event on Sunday, May 22 at 5 pm CT / 6 pm ET. RSVP and find out more about the Locke Award at award.wesleyaninvestive.org. Expect to be inspired by their stories and filled with hope for the future of the church’s witness! (45 minute virtual event, register today!)
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission.
Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
David Bailey Bio
David Bailey believes that the Church should lead by example in cross-cultural engagement and reconciliation. He’s the founder and executive director of Arrabon, a ministry that cultivates Christian communities to pursue healing and reconciliation in a racially divided world. David is an active speaker, consultant, and strategist for many national organizations about cultural intelligence and culture-making. He is the co-author of the Race, Class, and the Kingdom of God Study Series. David was named by Christianity Today as one of “The Twenty Most Creative Christians We Know”. He serves as a teaching elder at East End Fellowship. David and his wife, Joy, live in Richmond, Virginia.
Dr. Kit Evans-Ford’s passion for providing safe spaces for survivors of domestic violence and sexual violence is deeply personal. Kit’s grandmother, Argrow, is the namesake for her social enterprise Argrow’s House of Healing and Hope, a bath and body social enterprise that employs female survivors of domestic violence and sexual violence. Kit shares how her family story and her own life experiences led her to discern her life’s purpose and learn how to start a social enterprise. This compelling conversation has a thread of grace that inspires with transparency and vulnerability and a great reminder that whatever we’re facing in life, we don’t do it alone.
Note: There are themes of violence and sexual abuse in this interview. If those are triggering topics for you, please take care of yourself and skip this episode.
QUOTES
- “But ultimately, what I do and why I do what I do is deeply rooted and connected to the women in my family… but also from a place of deep personal pain for me that I know that God has used to do good in the world.” -Kit Evans-Ford [19:02]
- “It’s ok to think outside of the box. Everybody’s path doesn’t look the same, but all the work that we do is grounded in the love of God and Jesus Christ.” -Kit Evans-Ford [46:48]
TIMESTAMPS
- [00:00] Intro
- [01:36] About Kit Evans-Ford
- [03:05] What stood out in this conversation
- [05:48] What led Kit’s to where she is
- [09:59] Joining the Peace Corp
- [16:17] Accepting her call to ministry
- [21:11] Take a deep breath
- [23:03] Becoming a spokesperson at a young age
- [27:49] The connection between trauma and call
- [32:21] Doing it together as community
- [34:49] Safe spaces for healing
- [43:18] It’s ok to step outside of the box
- [47:57] Be open to understanding
- [51:16] The essence of Wesleyans
- [53:00] A blessing
- [55:23s] Outro
RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
This episode references domestic violence, physical violence, and attempted sexual violence. Please skip this episode if these topics are triggering for you. For resources related to trauma, visit the work of Bessel van der Kolk, MD. Here is another site full of resources related to trauma.
RSVP for the Locke Leader Virtual Event You are invited to attend a virtual event honoring the 2022 Tom Locke Innovative Leader Award recipients. Earlier this year, four extraordinary leaders received a surprising letter from our organization. Without their knowledge, each leader had been nominated and selected to receive the second annual Tom Locke Innovative Leader Award. We would be honored if you would join us to celebrate them at a virtual event on Sunday, May 22 at 5 pm CT / 6 pm ET. RSVP and find out more about the Locke Award at award.wesleyaninvestive.org. Expect to be inspired by their stories and filled with hope for the future of the church’s witness! (45 minute virtual event, register today!)
Visit Argrow’s House website and support this amazing social enterprise! Argrow’s House is a safe space where free services are offered daily for women healing from violence and abuse in the greater Quad Cities area.
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission.
Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
Kit Evans-Ford Bio
Dr. Kit Evans Ford is a national trainer, spiritual director, and professor. She is passionate about nonviolence, God, and serving others. She has been a trainer and activist for 14 years working relentlessly in the areas of nonviolence education and assisting people in healing from violence and abuse. Kit is an Adjunct Professor in the Department of Theology at St. Ambrose University. She is the author of 101 Testimonies of Hope: Life Stories to Encourage Your Faith in God and A Children’s Book On Bishop Richard Allen: A Nonviolent Journey. She is also certified in spiritual direction and is the founder of Argrow’s House of Healing and Hope in Davenport, Iowa. Argrow’s House is a safe space where free services are offered daily for women healing from violence and abuse in the greater Quad Cities area. Argrow’s House is also a successful social enterprise where women healing from violence and abuse create beautiful bath products that provide a living wage for themselves in a safe space that celebrates who they are.
In these five episodes of Season 5, we’ll be meeting stunning spiritual entrepreneurs who are making a profound impact as they follow God’s call on their lives. They are the recipients of the 2022 Locke Innovative Leader Award.
To help us set the stage for these conversations, we begin with Brian McLaren! In book after book (his newest book Do I Stay Christian? comes out in May… we talk about it!), with startling clarity, he lays bare the deeply troubling and the fundamentally beautiful aspects of the church and what it means to be the Body of Christ in the world. Being human, being Christian, is messy and imperfect. Christ, have mercy. And still, God is good. And the Holy Spirit is at work in the world. Our conversation is as challenging as it is hopeful. May it spark new conversations, renewed hope, and new imagination for what is possible.
QUOTES
- “You realize for many people Christianity is defined by adherence to a set of beliefs. You can be a racist. You can be a bigot. You can be an abuser, but you’re still an orthodox Christian because of beliefs. So it just raises this question, what does this word even mean?” -Brian McLaren [19:20]
- “Don’t imitate. Innovate.” -Brian McLaren [34:43]
TIMESTAMPS
- [00:00] Intro
- [00:45] Co-host Matt Russell
- [01:47] About the Locke Innovative Leader Award
- [04:21] About Brian McLaren
- [10:00] Brian’s faith journey
- [16:42] Defining the word, Christian
- [22:14] What it is to be a new kind of Christian
- [31:01] The role of leaders and spiritual entrepreneurs
- [40:39] Outro
RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
Brian McLaren’s newest book Do I Stay Christian? A Guide for the Doubters, the Disappointed, and the Disillusioned, is coming out on May 24th but can be preordered now here.
RSVP for the Locke Leader Virtual Event You are invited to attend a virtual event honoring the 2022 Tom Locke Innovative Leader Award recipients. Earlier this year, four extraordinary leaders received a surprising letter from our organization. Without their knowledge, each leader had been nominated and selected to receive the second annual Tom Locke Innovative Leader Award. We would be honored if you would join us to celebrate them at a virtual event on Sunday, May 22 at 5 pm CT / 6 pm ET. RSVP and find out more about the Locke Award at award.wesleyaninvestive.org. Expect to be inspired by their stories and filled with hope for the future of the church’s witness! (45 minute virtual event, register today!)
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission.
Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
Brian McLaren Bio
Brian D. McLaren is an author, speaker, activist, and public theologian. A former college English teacher and pastor, he is a passionate advocate for “a new kind of Christianity” – just, generous, and working with people of all faiths for the common good. He is a faculty member of The Living School and podcaster with Learning How to See, which are part of the Center for Action and Contemplation. He is also an Auburn Senior Fellow and is a co-host of Southern Lights. His newest books are Faith After Doubt released in January 2021, and his next release, Do I Stay Christian is coming out in May and can be preordered now.
Season 5 of Igniting Imagination is coming soon! Host Lisa Greenwood and co-host Matt Russell talk about spiritual entrepreneurship and innovative ministry with author, activist, and public theologian Brian McLaren and our four 2022 Locke Innovative Leaders. Listen to this short trailer for a glimpse of our conversations with courageous leaders sharing their powerful, inspiring stories. If you like our podcast, please share your favorite episodes with friends and colleagues and leave us a review. Thanks for listening!
In our final episode for the season, Mandy McDow, pastor of Los Angeles First UMC, shares the story of LA First who razed their building in 2002. Yep. No building. That reality forces a posture of constant discernment: God, what is the difference you would have us make in this neighborhood in this season? Theirs is not a tidy, perfect story. It’s messy and real and very much in process. We hope it inspires you as it has us! Wow!
QUOTES
- “That’s the first barrier for entry to understanding how God loves you. The way the church behaves is the way people perceive that God behaves.” -Mandy McDow [12:02]
- “I think every congregation has the capacity to adapt. It’s just a matter of when you decide to do it. Do you do it in crisis? Or do you do it so that you’re not in crisis?” -Mandy McDow [19:09]
TIMESTAMPS
- [00:00] Intro
- [02:12] What to listen for in the conversation with Mandy
- [03:47] Meet Mandy McDow
- [04:46] This history of LA First
- [12:13] How they got to the parking lot
- [15:13] How the DNA is showing up now
- [19:27] Inviting congregation into imagination
- [25:09] LA First in 10 years
- [27:24] Distinguish between fan and follower
- [35:23] Outro
RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
Visit LA First’s website here.
Read Lisa Greenwood’s monograph about God’s Mixed Ecology: The Changing Spiritual Landscape here.
New Feature: Transcripts for this Season’s Episodes
We will have transcripts for each of our episodes this season. Visit our website to download this week’s transcript. We hope these additional resources will help you share these conversations with your friends, colleagues, and leadership teams to spark the spirit within you, your organization, and “ignite imagination!”
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission.
Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
Mandy McDow’s Bio
Rev. Mandy McDow grew up in Knoxville, Tennessee and attended Oglethorpe University in Atlanta, Georgia. She attended Princeton Theological Seminary for her Master of Divinity and is currently pursuing doctoral work at Candler School of Theology. Mandy has served congregations in Atlanta, Laguna Beach, and in 2017 accepted the appointment to Los Angeles First UMC with one catch and you’ll hear about it in the interview: the church bulldozed their building in 2001. Mandy has a black belt in Taekwondo, she is an aspiring musician, still has a passion for sweet tea, and is the proud mother of three children.
“What does ‘Distributing Power’ look like for a congregation?” is a frequent question we get about our fourth adaptive muscle. Now we can say: listen to this interview with Mike Mather! Mike helps us make the connection between distributing power and abundance.
When Mike and his congregation started actually living out their beliefs that everyone (both inside and outside of the church) has gifts, it changed their perspective–and their church–for the better. They began to look for the gifts their neighbors possessed instead of their needs. They shifted how they perceived their role in the community from being bringers of all good things to being connectors who bring people’s gifts together for the good of the neighborhood. Mike is a powerful storyteller, we can't wait for you to hear this conversation! May his stories and lessons stick with you and inspire you to discover the gifts and power already at work in your neighbors and in your neighborhood.
QUOTES
- “She didn’t need training. She needed people who saw she had gifts and power. That was when things really shifted for me.” -Mike Mather [12:58]
- “I would say what we often talked about it as was ‘How do we join the power that God has present in the lives of our neighbors?’” -Mike Mather [30:19]
TIMESTAMPS
- [00:00] Intro
- [00:55] What it means to distribute power
- [04:41] Meet Mike Mather
- [05:29] What Mike hopes people get out of his book
- [08:01] The pivot in his life
- [13:15] How that impacted how his church did ministry
- [20:12] The impact to Mike as a leader
- [29:22] It changed their job descriptions
- [30:38] Point to where the power is at work
- [32:38] Where he met resistance and/or obstacles
- [43:31] Outro
RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
Read Mike Mather’s book Having Nothing, Possessing Everything for more insights that inspire and equip leaders with very practical ideas for moving beyond buildings and into the streets.
Read Lisa Greenwood’s monograph about God’s Mixed Ecology: The Changing Spiritual Landscape here.
New Feature: Transcripts for this Season’s Episodes
We will have transcripts for each of our episodes this season. Visit our website to download this week’s transcript. We hope these additional resources will help you share these conversations with your friends, colleagues, and leadership teams to spark the spirit within you, your organization, and “ignite imagination!”
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission.
Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
Mike Mather’s Bio:
Mike Mather is the pastor at First United Methodist in Boulder, Colorado. For many years, Mike was the pastor at Broadway United Methodist Church in Indianapolis, Indiana. Before that he served as pastor of another church named Broadway in South Bend, Indiana. Mike is also on the faculty of the Asset-Based Community Development Institute at DePaul University. Mike is the author of Having Nothing, Possessing Everything: Finding Abundant Communities in Unexpected Places. As a preacher-consultant-storyteller, he speaks all over the country about community development and urban ministry.
Adam Barlow-Thompson, co-founder of The Neighboring Movement, wants us to meet our actual neighbors. While that may seem like a simple idea, research (and perhaps experience) shows us that few of us truly engage our neighbors. Adam invites us to move from the theoretical ‘love your neighbor’ to the literal: meet your neighbors in the eight houses or apartments around you and discover the gifts God has given them. Adam does not simply offer a rosy picture of neighboring. He relates a story of a neighbor who slammed the door on his colleague one day, and a year later embraced the chance to work with neighbors in a community garden.
Neighboring is a long-term investment in relationships. The Neighboring Movement is not a numerical church-growth program with an aim to get more people in pews, rather a shift in mindset from scarcity to abundance that ultimately results in a congregation’s increased joy. This conversation is packed with inspiring stories and practical ideas for connecting with neighbors, discovering their gifts, and bringing people together to foster a thriving community.
QUOTES
- “In many ways, we’re asking you to meet your neighbor. Like that is such a simple task.” -Adam Barlow-Thompson [24:17]
- “To be a good neighbor means you have to be present in your neighborhood.” -Adam Barlow-Thompson [30:35]
TIMESTAMPS
- [00:00] Intro
- [00:48] Blair’s story about her neighbor
- [02:46] The proximity of neighbor
- [03:53] Why neighboring is so important for the church
- [06:48] Meet Adam Barlow-Thompson
- [08:41] Host’s reactions to the conversation
- [11:35] Why neighboring is important
- [15:03] What it means to be a neighbor
- [20:32] Where social media plays into neighboring movement
- [23:38] Is the neighboring movement subservice?
- [26:51] The Good Neighbor Experiment
- [36:15] The Eight Front Doors Project
- [42:18] Outro
RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
Read all about the Neighboring Movement and find resources like the Eight Front Doors Project here.
Read Lisa Greenwood’s monograph about God’s Mixed Ecology: The Changing Spiritual Landscape here.
New Feature: Transcripts for this Season’s Episodes
We will have transcripts for each of our episodes this season. Visit our website to download this week’s transcript. We hope these additional resources will help you share these conversations with your friends, colleagues, and leadership teams to spark the spirit within you, your organization, and “ignite imagination!”
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission.
Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
Adam Barlow-Thompson’s Bio
Adam Barlow-Thompson is a graduate of Southwestern College and Garrett-Evangelical Theological Seminary. He served for 6 years as the Executive Pastor at Woodlawn UMC in Derby, KS, and created a Process Communication Model-based worship service called Swerve. Adam is a certified trainer and provider of Process Communication Model, Servants by Design, and Leading Out of Drama. In 2016 Adam left the local church to become a full-time trainer/facilitator and to support the nonprofit Neighboring Movement which he founded with Ashley and their neighbors.
The Neighboring Movement believes the best way to create vibrant, thriving communities is by first creating neighborly relationships, connecting people–just like you–with others whose skills, passions and causes can change the world for good.
Adam loves playing banjo and laughing loudly. He can be seen around the neighborhood playing music on the front porch or riding his bike to the office. Adam is always up for a story or a laugh and is an eternal optimist when it comes to his neighborhood. Adam is married to Ashley and they have a son named Prescott.
Most of us can readily identify with having a love-hate relationship with the Institution of the Church. Gil Rendle’s latest paper, Jacob’s Bones: On the Church’s Institutional Future, addresses our ambivalence head-on and offers a distinction that is a gamechanger. He states, “Institutions are not organizations that house values. Institutions are values and disciplines that need organizations to bring their gifts to the people.”
Listen to this week’s episode of Igniting Imagination as we dig deeper into this conversation with Gil. We hope it sparks a new imagination in you around the vital work of identifying the core truths, values and practices that reside at the center of what it means to be the Church today.
QUOTES
- “We still have this internal knowledge that there is something of great purpose in what we’re doing by forming a family. There is something of great purpose in what we’re doing in forming a marriage or in being part of a religious community or seeking democracy or wanting to serve the common good. This is going back to fundamentals that reside pretty deep in us.” -Gil Rendle [31:55]
- “The younger an institution is or the younger an expression of an institution is, the easier it is because the closer it lives to its purpose.” -Gil Rendle [32:59]
TIMESTAMPS
- [00:00] Intro
- [01:06] The purpose of talking about purpose
- [05:10] Meet Gil Rendle
- [06:24] Host’s reactions to this conversation
- [11:32] About Jacob’s Bones: On the Church’s Institutional Future
- [15:17] Institution as a construction of a social reality
- [19:43] Problem-solving instead of discernment
- [24:31] How leaders shift from problem-solving mode to discernment mode
- [30:08] What we’re experiencing
- [34:47] What giving Gil hope for the future of the Church
- [37:32] Outro
RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
Read Gil Rendle’s publication “Jacob’s Bones: On the Church’s Institutional Future” for free on our website here.
In the intro, Blair references this article from Fortune: 2022 Will Be A Year of Continuing Transformation by Alan Murray and David Meyer
Read Lisa Greenwood’s monograph about God’s Mixed Ecology: The Changing Spiritual Landscape here.
New Feature: Transcripts for this Season’s Episodes
We will have transcripts for each of our episodes this season. Visit our website to download this week’s transcript. We hope these additional resources will help you share these conversations with your friends, colleagues, and leadership teams to spark the spirit within you, your organization, and “ignite imagination!”
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission.
Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
Gil Rendle’s Bio
Dr. Gil Rendle is a retired Senior Vice President and part-time consultant with The Texas Methodist Foundation in Austin, Texas and an independent consultant working with issues of change and leadership in denominations.
Rendle has an extensive background in organizational development, group and systems theory, and leadership development. He has consulted with congregations on planning, staff and leadership development, and issues of change. He is well known for his work with middle judicatory and national denominational offices and staff as they wrestle with denominational and congregational change.
He is the author of ten books, a contributor to four books, and the author of numerous articles and monographs. His most recent books include Journey in the Wilderness: New Life for Mainline Churches (2010) and Back to Zero: The Search to Rediscover the Methodist Movement (2011) both published by Abingdon Press and Doing the Math of Mission: Fruits, Faithfulness and Metrics (2014) and Quietly Courageous: Leading the Church in a Changing World (2018) both published by Rowman & Littlefield. Rendle is a resident of Pennsylvania where he lives with his wife, Lynne.
One big takeaway about the Five Muscles (Grieving Well, Discerning Purpose, Walking Alongside, Distributing Power, Expanding Imagination) is that they are all connected. Shannon Hopkins, co-founder and lead cultivator of RootedGood, profoundly understands that grieving well makes discerning purpose and expanding imagination possible. Shannon shares the origin story of her organization RootedGood. She and her colleagues discerned that Matryoshka Haus, the 15-year-old organization she founded and that was by many accounts thriving, could no longer continue in the same way. They decided to let go of what was so that they could step into the new dreams God had for them and RootedGood and two other organizations were born. This conversation with Shannon is rich with insight about grieving as a leader, leading an organization through loss, and living and leading out of the reality and great gift of the Christian tradition that there is life, death, and life after death.
QUOTES
- “If we don’t do the work of grief, it will come out another way, and I think whether that leads us to toxic, unhealthy organizations and communities, we don’t need more of that.” -Shannon Hopkins [29:49]
- “There’s going to be some pain, and it’s going to take and require some bold leadership. And it’s going to look like death before it looks like life, but I think that’s where it’s exciting.” -Shannon Hopkins [46:52]
TIMESTAMPS
- [00:00] Intro
- [00:52] The theme for Season 4
- [03:38] A story about muscles from Scott
- [05:29] The changing spiritual landscape
- [07:52] About Shannon Hopkins
- [10:11] Hosts’ observations
- [14:28] Matryoshka Haus and RootedGood
- [22:07] How purpose ties with needing to grieve and move on
- [23:36] Recognize the need to grieve
- [30:57] Difference between leader’s grief and corporate grief
- [35:02] How God’s imagination has taken off
- [38:52] How this has changed Shannon personally
- [43:13] The hope Shannon has to offer to the church
- [48:58] Outro
RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
RootedGood’s Tools and Games
Explore RootedGood’s website to find tools and games to help you implement design thinking, produce creative ideas, launch new ventures, generate revenue consistent with mission, measure your impact, and more. Membership in RootedGood’s Mycelium Network allows access to all of the content and a dynamic network of social impact leaders.
How to Lead When Things Fall Apart
Shannon Hopkins names and explains the five stages of a healthy pivot when the structures you have built no longer work. This is an important read and a helpful conversation starter for leadership teams as we continue to navigate disruption, change, and the feelings of loss that come when things do not go as we had hoped and planned. (5 min read)
Read Lisa Greenwood’s monograph about God’s Mixed Ecology: The Changing Spiritual Landscape here.
New Feature: Transcripts for this Season’s Episodes
We will have transcripts for each of our episodes this season. Visit our website to download this week’s transcript. We hope these additional resources will help you share these conversations with your friends, colleagues, and leadership teams to spark the spirit within you, your organization, and “ignite imagination!”
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission.
Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
Shannon Hopkins’ Bio
Shannon Hopkins is an extreme networker and social entrepreneur living in East London. Her passion for community and individual transformation has launched or influenced the formation of fifteen campaigns, projects, and organizations — and trained over 200 social entrepreneurs. In 2008, Shannon was awarded the Women of the UN and UK’s Annual Woman of Peace Award for The Truth isn’t Sexy, a campaign that addressed the demand side of human trafficking.
A Texas native, in 2004 Shannon moved to London and founded Matryoshka Haus. Part incubator, part community, part training organization, Matryoshka Haus was born of a fundamental belief that a different world is possible. Shannon is excited to see how over a decade’s worth of work, passion, and learning will live on and take new shape in the US through RootedGood. Shannon’s mission-centered focus on bridging the gap between partners, funders, and cause-related champions in a post-Christian secular world is rooted in one powerful concept: inspiration. In her words, “I think we undervalue what inspires us and moves us to act… but once someone is inspired it can really set a whole host of things in motion.”
Vice President of Leadership Ministry and host Rev. Lisa Greenwood welcomes guests Rev. Rachel Billups and Rev. Matt Rawle to discuss disruptive trends impacting churches. Drawing from recent articles about 2022 trends by Carey Nieuwhof, Joe Park, and Thom Rainer, the three discuss how multi-access is here to stay, the shift to more decentralized power, the role of authority, giving permission to play, less givers giving more…and so much more! This engaging conversation will surely ignite your imagination for what God may be inviting you to consider in your context this year and beyond.
See our show notes for an invitation to email us your reflections from today’s topic for a chance to win a copy of Gil Rendle’s book “Quietly Courageous.”
QUOTES
- “As we’re moving forward, even myself, I have to let go of the fear of what I know and step into something I don’t know.” -Rev. Rachel Billups [07:14]
- “That’s the beauty of a church in a community is that we’re not going anywhere. Even if you disappoint us, even if you walk away, even if you don’t join my church and leave, you’re still in the neighborhood, and it’s still my job to love you and serve you.” -Rev. Matt Rawle [31:26]
TIMESTAMPS
- [00:00] Intro
- [02:55] Permission to play
- [08:24] Transformation is in the hands of God
- [10:02] Influence over authority
- [13:20] Three marathons…
- [18:59] Less will give more
- [24:11] Lessening the generation gap
- [29:03] Community focus is more important than ever
- [37:05] Outro
RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
Three Articles on Trends
Today’s episode references 1) Carey Nieuwhof’s 12 Disruptive Church Trends that Will Rule 2022, 2) Joe Park’s Seven Trends to Watch in 2022, and 3) Thom Rainer’s Ten (Very Different) Church Trends for 2022.
Email and Enter a Drawing for a Free Book
What trends are you noticing? We’d love to hear from you! Email Lisa (lgreenwood@tmf-fdn.org) your reflections on trends and we’ll enter your name into a drawing for a free copy of Gil Rendle’s book “Quietly Courageous.” We’ll pick three names next Wednesday (2/16)
Posts Related to Today’s Episode
Matt Rawle’s recent blogpost “The Center of Nine” expands on what he shares in our conversation, including the “Three Covid Marathons” he sees and his thoughts on what it means to “Abide.” Dan Bracken is a member of Rachel Billups’s team at Ginghamsburg Church and wrote this piece about their first steps into ministry in the metaverse.
New Feature: Transcripts for this Season’s Episodes
We will have transcripts for each of our episodes this season. Visit our website to download this week’s transcript. We hope these additional resources will help you share these conversations with your friends, colleagues, and leadership teams to spark the spirit within you, your organization, and “ignite imagination!”
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high-capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission.
Subscribe to our Leadership Ministry emails here.
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
Matt Rawle’s Bio:
Matt is the Lead Pastor at Asbury United Methodist Church in Bossier City, Louisiana and a graduate from the LSU School of Music and Duke Divinity School. He is an international speaker who loves to tell an old story in a new way, especially at the intersection of pop culture and the church. Matt is also the author of The Heart that Grew Three Sizes, The Grace of Les Misérables, What Makes a Hero?, The Faith of a Mockingbird, Hollywood Jesus, The Salvation of Doctor Who, and The Redemption of Scrooge. He and wife Christie have four awesome kids: Isabelle, Annaleigh, Cecilia, and Robert.
Rachel Billups’ Bio:
Rachel Billups is a visionary, leader, speaker and author. Currently she serves as Senior Pastor at Ginghamsburg Church multi-campus ministry in Tipp City/Dayton Ohio. Rachel draws on her love of people and passion to explore new venues for ministry and mission.
Rachel is an ordained Elder within the United Methodist Church and holds a Bachelor’s Degree in Bible/Religion and History from Anderson University and a Master of Divinity Degree from Duke Divinity School.
Most days you can find Rachel reaching out – praying online, hosting Open Table gatherings in her home or enjoying moments with husband Jon and their four loves: Adeline, Christopher, David and Sarah. She also might be cheering for those Duke Blue Devils and The OSU Buckeyes.
Rachel is a popular speaker for national gatherings and has recently authored BE BOLD: Finding your Fierce as well as co-authoring Down to Earth: Hopes and Fears of all the Year Are Met in Thee Tonight and Sent: Delivering the Gift of Hope at Christmas – all published by Abingdon Press. You can find her on social media at: @rlbillups.
The fifth and final muscle the church needs to strengthen in order to be fit, agile, and ready for God’s now is Expanding Imagination. Dr. Amy Oden teaches theology, the history of Christianity and spiritual formation. Her ability to combine deep theological thought with spiritual practice and bring ancient wisdom to inform contemporary life is not just relevant…her work is truly revelatory for the church today.
In this conversation, Amy connects imagination with the life and ministry of Jesus and the work of the early church. She invites us to see curiosity as a spiritual practice so we can have the discipline to explore what God might be imagining instead of moving too quickly into problem solving and resolution. Amy explores how hospitality is connected to expanding imagination and the gift of science in giving us awe and wonder. This conversation is packed with insight and inspiration for becoming more imaginative in your context!
QUOTES
- “It takes discipline to withhold that really strong muscle that we’ve developed very well of jumping to resolution. But instead what spiritual practices do is help us stay in the unknowing, the not knowing, the not jumping into conclusions long enough to pay attention to what God is up to here.” -Amy Oden [22:16]
- “When we pay attention to our bodies, God has given us this incredible gift of embodiment where God is often revealed. God speaks to us through our bodies, and that’s often where grief shows up. ” -Amy Oden [30:45]
TIMESTAMPS
- [00:00] Intro
- [00:50] Answering questions from listeners
- [04:57] How to start exercising the muscles
- [09:07] Meet Dr. Amy Oden
- [16:34] How Expanding Imagination applies to the church
- [21:04] What spiritual practices inform about curiosity
- [23:50] At the table with the stranger and the other
- [29:06] How it links back to grief
- [33:03] What “all” means to Amy
- [38:29] Outro
RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
Visit Amy Oden’s website to find out more about her books and other recent podcast interviews.
Read Amy’s book “Right Here, Right Now: The Practice of Christian Mindfulness”
Read more about the Five Muscles on our website and download a PowerPoint presentation to share with your leadership.
“God Has Work for Us To Do” music and lyrics by Mark Miller. Visit Mark’s website at markamillermusic.com or find him on YouTube at youtube.com/c/markismusic67.
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission. For more information and to support Leadership Ministry, visit tmf-fdn.org/leadership-ministry.
The fourth of five muscles the church needs to strengthen in order to be fit, agile, and ready for God’s now is Distributing Power. Dr. Joerg Rieger is the Distinguished Professor of Theology and the Cal Turner Chancellor’s Chair of Wesleyan Studies at Vanderbilt University. He has spent the last two decades addressing the relation of theology and public life, reflecting on the misuse of power in religion, politics, and economics.
In this conversation, Joerg reminds us that distributed power is at the heart of Jesus’ ministry and the ministry of John Wesley and the people called Methodists. He connects spiritual practices with distributing power, inviting us to do the work of theology so that we might grow in holy power not to hoard it but to channel it. This conversation with Joerg is full of that holy power. We can’t wait for you to listen!
QUOTES
- “I remember years ago there was some theologian who wrote a book saying we have to ask more God questions and less me questions. And everybody was really excited about this book. ‘We have to ask more God questions and less me questions.’ In the Perkins faculty where I was teaching at the time was really excited, and I said ‘What if your God questions are really your concealed me questions?’ Is that possible, right, that you talk about God, and you’re really talking about yourself.” -Joerg Rieger [13:41]
- “Power is not a dirty word, but it’s a different sort of power. If you want to use modern language, you could say it’s more democratic. It’s more shared. It’s something that brings people together. Something that builds relationships. Something that builds solidarity.” -Joerg Rieger [15:00]
TIMESTAMPS
- [00:00] Intro
- [01:14] Current conversations with congregations
- [05:23] Meet Joerg Rieger
- [07:06] Highlights from the interview
- [10:51] What comes to mind with “distributing power”
- [17:04] The issue of power in the US right now
- [20:58] Ways to build those power muscles
- [25:42] Practices to get a better grip on the notion of power
- [33:26] Signs of hope
- [38:55] Outro
RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
Visit Joerg Rieger’s website to find out more about his books and other recent podcast interviews.
Joerg’s book “No Religion but Social Religion” reflects on the Wesley’s understanding of grace, God, and religion.
Read more about the Five Muscles on our website and download a PowerPoint presentation to share with your leadership.
“God Has Work for Us To Do” music and lyrics by Mark Miller. Visit Mark’s website at markamillermusic.com or find him on YouTube at youtube.com/c/markismusic67.
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission. For more information and to support Leadership Ministry, visit tmf-fdn.org/leadership-ministry.
The third of five muscles the church needs to strengthen in order to be fit, agile, and ready for God’s now is Walking Alongside or Neighboring. Coté Soerens is the owner and midwife of Resistencia Coffee shop in the South Park neighborhood of Seattle, Washington. She is also the co-founder of Cultivate South Park, a non-profit that lends infrastructure to neighborhood community development projects such as the Urban Fresh Food Collective, Reconnect South Park, and the South Park Arts and Culture Collective.
In this conversation, Coté beautifully and powerfully offers a picture of what it means to walk alongside and build trust with our neighbors, to let go of who we think we are, to believe we have everything we need, and to find power in vulnerability, friendship and joy. Her passion is infectious. We can’t wait for you to hear her!
QUOTES
- “We have to recognize that the work in the neighborhood is very messy. It sounds beautiful because it is, but it’s also very messy.” -Coté Soerens [15:55]
- “Being able to make myself vulnerable became a practice, an everyday practice. Giving up control is a way for me to become vulnerable. Taking how in my wanting to keep control everyday in the work in the neighborhood is a way that I keep myself accountable.” -Coté Soerens [28:33]
TIMESTAMPS
- [00:01] Intro
- [01:00] How the muscles are connected
- [05:11] Meet Coté
- [08:17] What stood out to the hosts about this conversation
- [10:21] What is Cultivate South Park?
- [13:18] How to build trust and relationships
- [17:15] From soup nights to coffee shop
- [24:58] Navigating all the things in the neighborhood
- [30:54] Some of the visions that the neighborhood experiences
- [42:17] Outro
RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
Cultivate South Park is “Connecting Neighbors and their Gifts to Co Create a thriving and equitable South Park.” Find out more on their website.
Learn more about Resistencia Coffee in Seattle, Washington at their website.
Mark Elsdon’s book that is referenced in the interview is We Aren't Broke: Uncovering Hidden Resources for Mission and Ministry.
Read more about the Five Muscles on our website and download a PowerPoint presentation to share with your leadership.
“God Has Work for Us To Do” music and lyrics by Mark Miller. Visit Mark’s website at markamillermusic.com or find him on YouTube at youtube.com/c/markismusic67.
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission. For more information and to support Leadership Ministry, visit tmf-fdn.org/leadership-ministry.
The second of five muscles the church needs to strengthen in order to be fit, agile, and ready for God’s now is Discerning Purpose. Susan Beaumont is well known for her groundbreaking work in organizational leadership dynamics. She is a consultant, coach, author, spiritual director, and an ordained minister within the American Baptist Churches. She has worked with hundreds of congregations and denominational bodies across the United States and in Canada.
In this conversation with Lisa Greenwood, Susan reflects on the difference between discernment and decision-making. She offers practical wisdom for how pastors can begin to help leaders shift towards a posture of discernment that will help clarify the congregation’s purpose. In the midst of this liminal season, Susan is an expert guide who models leadership rooted in spiritual practices that ultimately help connect the soul of the leader to the soul of the institution.
QUOTES
- “I think that congregations are at their most vital when the soul of a leader is connecting with the soul of the institution and calling something forth.” -Susan Beaumont [13:32]
- “We cannot manufacture or produce discernment. It’s a gift that is given.” -Susan Beaumont [32:27]
TIMESTAMPS
- [00:01] Intro
- [01:20] Meet Susan
- [01:56] What stood out to Blair and Scott about this conversation
- [09:19] How her book came to be and her commitment to it
- [11:37] Tending the soul of an institution
- [14:07] The act of discernment and why it’s important
- [20:09] Methods and tools to shift into discernment mode
- [30:49] Obstacles or resistances that a leader might face
- [36:25] Outro
RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
Susan Beaumont’s book that is referenced throughout the interview is How to Lead When You Don’t Know Where You’re Going: Leading in a Liminal Season.
Find more information about Susan, including blogs and other resources, visit her website: https://susanbeaumont.com
Read more about the Five Muscles on our website and download a PowerPoint presentation to share with your leadership.
“God Has Work for Us To Do” music and lyrics by Mark Miller. Visit Mark’s website at markamillermusic.com or find him on YouTube at youtube.com/c/markismusic67.
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission. For more information and to support Leadership Ministry, visit tmf-fdn.org/leadership-ministry.
The first of five muscles the church needs to strengthen in order to be fit, agile, and ready for God’s now is Grieving Well. Suzanne Stabile is well known as an expert on the Enneagram. This past year, she has done extensive work on grief and the Enneagram because she believes grieving in real time is so important in our world today. Suzanne offers us remarkable insights through this in-depth interview about grief and what grieving well looks like for congregations and communities.
Suzanne Stabile is a highly sought after speaker and teacher, known for her engaging laugh, personal vulnerability and creative approach to Enneagram instruction. After 25 years of studying the enneagram, learning from people’s stories, cultivating relationships, and learning under Father Richard Rohr, she has become a bestselling author and world class teacher of the enneagram and how individuals can best utilize this spiritual tool.
QUOTES
- “But what has happened to me as I’ve started to work on grieving is that I’ve come to believe that we have to grieve through the transition in order to live into the teaching that life has merely changed.” -Suzanne Stabile [17:23]
- “Grieving has got to be as unique to the individual as anything that’s ever gonna happen.” -Suzanne Stabile [25:59]
TIMESTAMPS
- [00:01] Intro
- [01:28] Meet Suzanne
- [04:11] The hosts’ thoughts on the conversation
- [06:51] Grieving in real time
- [12:59] How the enneagram can inform how to grieve
- [16:01] What has happened to her as she’s worked on grieving
- [22:45] Why she decided to study grieving
- [25:08] Grieving has to be as unique to the individual
- [27:42] What it would look like for congregations to do grief well together
- [33:12] Two kinds of ambiguous loss
- [37:05] Grief, fear and despair are basic emotions
- [45:11] Outro
RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
Suzanne’s newest book is “The Journey Toward Wholeness: Enneagram Wisdom for Stress, Balance, and Transformation” released on November 2, 2021. Her other books include “The Road Back to You” and “The Path Between Us.” Find out more about Suzanne’s ministry and workshop opportunities on her Life in the Trinity website: https://www.lifeinthetrinityministry.com and at: https://suzannestabile.com
Suzanne’s podcast is “The Enneagram Journey”: https://www.theenneagramjourney.org/podcast
The two books Suzanne references in the podcast are: Ambiguous Loss by Pauline Boss and Healing through the Dark Emotions by Miriam Greenspan
“God Has Work for Us To Do” music and lyrics by Mark Miller. Visit Mark’s website at markamillermusic.com or find him on YouTube at youtube.com/c/markismusic67.
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission. For more information and to support Leadership Ministry, visit tmf-fdn.org/leadership-ministry.
You’re listening to Igniting Imagination, a podcast to spark the spirit within you from Wesleyan Investive and Texas Methodist Foundation. This season, we are sharing conversations about the five adaptive muscles the church must strengthen to be fit, agile, and ready for God’s now. For more information about these muscles, visit tmf-fdn.org/leadership-ministry.
TMF’s Leadership Ministry team had conversations with pastors, bishops, conference leaders, spiritual entrepreneurs and practitioners from various fields about the adaptive challenges the church is facing in the pandemic and post-pandemic world. Through these conversations, the team identified “Five Muscles” that congregations need to strengthen and flex in order to thrive now and in the foreseeable future. The “Five Muscles” have been affirmed by numerous leaders who note that these are the muscles the church must continually exercise to be fit, agile, and ready for God’s now.
The “Five Muscles” are Grieving Well, Discerning Purpose, Walking Alongside / Neighboring, Distributing Power, and Expanding Imagination. In this episode, host Lisa Greenwood and this season’s co-hosts, Scott Sharp and Blair Thompson-White, give an overview of each of the five muscles. Their conversation is not only packed with insights about what leaders and congregations might consider related to each muscle, they also model for listeners how to talk through each muscle and exercise them together.
Guests this season will dive deep into each muscle. Join us for: Grieving Well with Suzanne Stabile, Discerning Purpose with Susan Beaumont, Walking Alongside / Neighboring with Coté Soerens, Distributing Power with Joerg Rieger, and Expanding Imagination with Amy Oden.
QUOTES
- “If you only go to the gym and you only work on your arms and you skip leg day every week, you’re not going to have the complimentary strength that you can have, and I don’t mean just to power lift, but to move through life.” -Scott Sharp [04:48]
- “This is not a one and done kind of thing. You can’t just run around the block once and think that you’re back in shape. It’s a constant, constant thing.” -Blair Thompson-White [28:32]
- “Just because I’m exercising or doing something doesn’t mean that I’m actually doing all that my body needs to stay fit and agile.” -Lisa Greenwood [29:42]
TIMESTAMPS
- [00:01] Intro
- [01:09] Why the muscle metaphor is a helpful image
- [05:20] How we identify the five muscles
- [06:30] First Muscle: Grieving Well
- [11:34] Second Muscle: Discerning Purpose
- [15:36] Third Muscle: Walking Alongside / Neighboring
- [18:43] Fourth Muscle: Distributing Power
- [23:43] Fifth Muscle: Expanding Imagination
- [28:41] A wake-up to do more
- [33:20] A blessing
- [34:15] Outro
RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
Read the book, New Power: How Power Works in Our Hyperconnected World--and How to Make It Work for You by Henry Timms and Jeremy Heimans.
Our hosts refer to the progression “We Welcome You--We Stand with You--We Need You.” This is the work of Sandra van Opstahl. Find more information about her here.
The question "What biblical narrative are you currently inhabiting?" was incorrectly attributed to John Thornburg. Gil Rendle was the first to offer the question that is now widely used by our Area Representatives team when working with congregations.
Read the bios of our hosts on our podcast website and find quotes and other information about each episode.
“God Has Work for Us To Do” music and lyrics by Mark Miller. Visit Mark’s website at markamillermusic.com or find him on YouTube at youtube.com/c/markismusic67.
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission. For more information and to support Leadership Ministry, visit tmf-fdn.org/leadership-ministry.
You’re listening to Igniting Imagination, a podcast to spark the spirit within you from Wesleyan Investive and Texas Methodist Foundation. This season, we are sharing conversations about the five adaptive muscles the church must strengthen to be fit, agile, and ready for God’s now. For more information about these muscles, visit tmf-fdn.org/leadership-ministry.
“God Has Work for Us To Do” music and lyrics by Mark Miller. Visit Mark’s website at markamillermusic.com or find him on YouTube at youtube.com/c/markismusic67.
Co-hosts Lisa Greenwood and Casper ter Kuile talk with Emmanuel Andre, 2021 Locke Innovative Leader Award Winner. Emmanuel prefers to be known as a “Community Defender” instead of a “Defense Attorney,” which says a lot about his approach to his work both inside and outside the courtroom. Restorative justice is more than a program. It is a way of being to Emmanuel, who believes transformation is possible if love is offered unconditionally while walking alongside another.
Emmanuel’s non-profit organization Circles and Ciphers walks alongside young people impacted by violence through hip-hop and art-based peace circles that provide space for conversations and community support to promote healing from trauma. Emmanuel’s story of how the church has walked alongside him from his childhood until now is a testimony to the church’s power to make a positive difference in the lives of individuals and communities. This conversation is simply inspirational from beginning to end and invites us all to consider our responsibility to create spaces where hope and healing can flourish and those who feel unseen can find friends.
QUOTES
- “It’s about relationships, not transactions.” -Emmanuel Andre [18:42]
- “There is something that happens when you’re willing to be uncomfortable and stay in relationship with. It’s that idea of walking with that continues to happen.” -Emmanuel Andre [30:58]
TIMESTAMPS
- [00:00] Intro
- [00:39] Final observation about these conversations
- [01:31] Meet Emmanuel Andre
- [04:47] Significant events in Emmanuel’s life
- [08:36] The power of the community
- [15:28] What is justice and how it pairs with healing
- [23:56] Leaning into the pain
- [28:11] Circles and Ciphers
- [33:04] His partnership with the Church
- [38:10] Three rapid fire questions
- [43:49] A blessing
- [45:26] Outro
RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
For information about our co-host Casper ter Kuile, visit his website: caspertk.com and check out the work of Sacred Design Lab at sacred.design.
Find and follow the Northside Transformative Law Center on their website: northsidetlc.com, on Facebook @ Northside-Transformative-Law-Center and Twitter @LawNorthside
Find and Follow Circles and Ciphers on their website: circlesandciphers.org, on Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter @CirclesAndCiphers
This season features Wesleyan Investive’s 2021 Tom Locke Innovative Award winners. The award honors spiritual entrepreneurs who have envisioned a broader mission field and have taken risks to make their God-sized dreams a reality. For more information about the award and the recipients, visit award.wesleyaninvestive.org.
“God Has Work for Us To Do” music and lyrics by Mark Miller. Visit Mark’s website at markamillermusic.com or find him on YouTube at youtube.com/c/markismusic67.
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission. For more information and to support Leadership Ministry, visit tmf-fdn.org/leadership-ministry.
Co-hosts Lisa Greenwood and Casper ter Kuile talk with DeAmon Harges, 2021 Locke Innovative Leader Award Winner. DeAmon is the original “Roving Listener” who defined the role by his posture of curiosity and his passion for discovering the gifts and talents of the people in his community. He is also the founder of The Learning Tree, a non-profit that uses the Asset-Based Community Development (ABCD) approach with city governments and organizations to improve the quality of lives of people, communities, schools and businesses.
His approach has greatly influenced how congregations, non-profits, and local governments view their work. Instead of seeing people and communities as lacking in resources, DeAmon sees their wealth of “intangible currencies'' such as imagination, relationships, and stories that bring people together in a fellowship of “mutual delight.” This conversation may well inspire you to be a “Social Banker” like DeAmon, who extends the metaphor: when you invest in the intangible currencies in your neighborhood, you will find the riches of love, hope, and joy in abundance!
QUOTES
- “Having a team to work through to have other gifts besides yourself is super important. If you don’t ever feel like you need people, then you’re way too tired. When you need people, you can guarantee you’re going to get some rest.” -DeAmon Harges [27:38]
- “I think the fact that we’ve been schooled in scarcity so much that we need proof of God’s abundance. And yet, we are God’s abundance.” -DeAmon Harges [30:46]
TIMESTAMPS
- [00:00] Intro
- [01:08] Meet DeAmon Harges
- [04:46] Significant events in DeAmon’s life
- [06:09] How we got to here
- [09:17] The Learning Tree
- [13:58] Working with the state and governor’s office
- [16:21] What it means to become a roving listener
- [22:20] Being a social banker
- [25:48] Navigating the challenges of being a social banker
- [28:03] A mixed spiritual ecology
- [31:04] Three rapid fire questions
- [32:20] A blessing
- [33:27] Outro
RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
For information about our co-host Casper ter Kuile, visit his website: caspertk.com and check out the work of Sacred Design Lab at sacred.design.
Find and follow DeAmon on Twitter @rovinglistener
For information about The Learning Tree, visit: thelearningtrees.com
This season features Wesleyan Investive’s 2021 Tom Locke Innovative Award winners. The award honors spiritual entrepreneurs who have envisioned a broader mission field and have taken risks to make their God-sized dreams a reality. For more information about the award and the recipients, visit award.wesleyaninvestive.org.
“God Has Work for Us To Do” music and lyrics by Mark Miller. Visit Mark’s website at markamillermusic.com or find him on YouTube at youtube.com/c/markismusic67.
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission. For more information and to support Leadership Ministry, visit tmf-fdn.org/leadership-ministry.
Co-hosts Lisa Greenwood and Casper ter Kuile talk with Rev. Leroy Barber, 2021 Locke Innovative Leader Award Winner. Leroy has dedicated 30 years to eradicating poverty, confronting homelessness, restoring local neighborhoods, healing racism, and living what Dr. King called “the beloved community.” Leroy is the Co-Founder of the Voices Project, which gathers leaders of color across fields, who pursue and work for change, for important conversations about the current challenges and triumphs within communities of color and their role as cultural influencers.
Leroy is a seasoned innovator who has spent decades as a spiritual entrepreneur starting new ministries and organizations. He is the definition of an ‘edge leader’ and yet, Leroy now serves deep in the center of the institution of the church as Director for Innovation for an Engaged Church in the Greater Northwest Area of the United Methodist Church. So how does an edge leader thrive when working in the heart of the center? Relationships. Leroy recognizes the value of relationship building between the center and the edge and brings people together to take the next faithful step in making God’s dreams reality. Whether you are in ministry in the center or the edge, this episode will encourage you to see the gifts and graces of the other and consider the ways the center and edge can work together to make a positive difference in congregations and communities.
QUOTES
- “I came up with this saying that I think is mine. Innovation happens at the intersection of difference. Meaning, you can’t really innovate if you don’t bring something different in.” -Leroy Barber [21:41]
- “I manage relationships in the middle and I lead on the edge.” -Leroy Barber [27:37]
TIMESTAMPS
- [00:00] Intro
- [01:36] Meet Leroy Barber
- [03:56] Significant event that have shaped Leroy
- [06:07] The Voices Project
- [12:04] The resistance Leroy meets today
- [15:32] Building collaborations
- [19:32] His role at the United Methodist Church
- [22:23] What gives him that confidence to try something new
- [26:04] Staying grounded and energized
- [29:11] Three rapid fire questions
- [32:25] A blessing
- [33:36] Outro
RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
For information about our co-host Casper ter Kuile, visit his website: caspertk.com and check out the work of Sacred Design Lab at sacred.design
Find and follow Leroy Barber on Facebook @leroy.barber.71, Instagram and Twitter @leroybarber
For information about The Voices Project, visit their website: voices-project.org
Leroy Barber’s most recent book is “Embrace: God’s Radical Shalom for a Divided World.”
This season features Wesleyan Investive’s 2021 Tom Locke Innovative Award winners. The award honors spiritual entrepreneurs who have envisioned a broader mission field and have taken risks to make their God-sized dreams a reality. For more information about the award and the recipients, visit award.wesleyaninvestive.org.
“God Has Work for Us To Do” music and lyrics by Mark Miller. Visit Mark’s website at markamillermusic.com or find him on YouTube at youtube.com/c/markismusic67.
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission. For more information and to support Leadership Ministry, visit tmf-fdn.org/leadership-ministry.
Co-hosts Lisa Greenwood and Casper ter Kuile talk with Dr. Matt Russell, 2021 Locke Innovative Leader Award Winner, about what he calls the “improbable friendships'' that have enriched his life and influenced the direction of his ministry. From these improbable friendships emerged projectCURATE, a non-profit educational and social enterprise incubator that seeks to build bridges across cultural, economic, religious, and racial divides, and Iconoclast Artists, a creative writing and arts program that gives young creative minds a chance to speak through written, visual, and performance art. The two organizations are making a big difference in the city of Houston and beyond.
Matt serves as Executive Pastor at Chapelwood United Methodist Church in Houston, Texas. He shares how innovation is not a formula to replicate but a faithful response to relationships based in trust and mutuality where the Spirit can work. “How can I be faithful to this moment?” is a question he asks often. Hearing Matt describe his answers to that question throughout his ministry journey is inspiring and may well lead you to discern your next faithful step or the next improbable friendship you are being invited to cultivate.
QUOTES
- “I think faith early on has always been a verb for me.” -Matt Russell [06:40]
- “All improbable friendships move at the pace of guidance. It’s not an agenda. It’s a guidance of relationship that are moving together.” -Matt Russell [21:27]
TIMESTAMPS
- [00:00] Intro
- [00:52] Meet Matt Russell
- [03:26] Significant encounters that have shaped Matt
- [07:01] How Project Curate came to be
- [15:06] Improbable friendships & what draws him to those relationships
- [20:17] How he navigates resistance
- [23:34] How he knows what’s working
- [30:30] Working with the pressure of the institution of the church
- [34:54] Three rapid fire questions
- [39:36] A blessing
- [40:46] Outro
RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
For information about our co-host Casper ter Kuile, visit his website: caspertk.com and check out the work of Sacred Design Lab at sacred.design
For information about Project Curate, visit their website: projectcurate.org or follow them on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter: @projectcurate
For more information about Iconoclast Artists, visit their website: iconoclastartists.org or follow them on Instagram or Facebook @iconoclastartists
Find and follow Matt Russell on Facebook @matthew.russell.1048, Instagram @mhrussell1, and Twitter @Dudeabides67
This season features Wesleyan Investive’s 2021 Tom Locke Innovative Award winners. The award honors spiritual entrepreneurs who have envisioned a broader mission field and have taken risks to make their God-sized dreams a reality. For more information about the award and the recipients, visit award.wesleyaninvestive.org.
“God Has Work for Us To Do” music and lyrics by Mark Miller. Visit Mark’s website at markamillermusic.com or find him on YouTube at youtube.com/c/markismusic67.
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission. For more information and to support Leadership Ministry, visit tmf-fdn.org/leadership-ministry.
Co-hosts Lisa Greenwood and Casper ter Kuile talk with Rev. Jen Bailey, 2021 Locke Innovative Leader Award Winner, about her womanist-led Faith Matters Network, whose mission is to catalyze personal and social change by equipping community organizers, faith leaders, and activists with resources for connection, spiritual sustainability, and accompaniment. Jen, founder and executive director, discusses how the organization has focused on “healing the healers” of transformative social movements through a variety of programs.
Jen discusses the role partnerships play in innovation. She also explains the term “composting religion” as taking the best of the old to create something new that meets the needs of today. This conversation is rich with insight about leading a start-up organization whose work at the intersection of spiritual tradition, social healing and social justice requires continual discernment and collaboration.
QUOTES
- “I think what unites us is the sense that what we’re doing is a continuation of a story, not a brand new story we’re starting ourselves.” -Jen Bailey [23:08]
- “But the reality is we exist in a space that is right there in the inbetween. My worldview is inherently influenced by what I would call the spiritual, even as I’m operating in ‘secular’ spaces. And I think what is also true for me is that I am most impactful in some of those non-explicitly religious spaces when I’m authentic to who I am.” -Jen Bailey [29:26]
TIMESTAMPS
- [00:00] Intro
- [01:35] Meet Jen Bailey
- [03:54] Significant moments that has shaped Jen
- [11:47] Her work with Faith Matters Network
- [15:57] People’s Supper
- [22:27] The continuation of a story
- [27:16] When sacred and secular intersect
- [32:45] Three rapid fire questions
- [36:29] A blessing
- [37:31] Outro
RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
For information about our co-host Casper ter Kuile, visit his website: caspertk.com and check out the work of Sacred Design Lab at sacred.design
For information about Faith Matters Network, where Jen Bailey serves as Executive Director, click here.
Find Faith Matters Network on Instagram and Facebook @faithmattersnetwork or follow them on Twitter @faithmattersnet
Follow Jen Bailey on Instagram and Twitter @revjenbailey
This season features Wesleyan Investive’s 2021 Tom Locke Innovative Award winners. The award honors spiritual entrepreneurs who have envisioned a broader mission field and have taken risks to make their God-sized dreams a reality. For more information about the award and the recipients, visit award.wesleyaninvestive.org.
“God Has Work for Us To Do” music and lyrics by Mark Miller. Visit Mark’s website at markamillermusic.com or find him on YouTube at youtube.com/c/markismusic67.
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission. For more information and to support Leadership Ministry, visit tmf-fdn.org/leadership-ministry.
Igniting Imagination is a podcast to spark the spirit within you, from Wesleyan Investive and Texas Methodist Foundation. This season, we are sharing conversations with five spiritual entrepreneurs who were awarded the 2021 Tom Locke Innovative Leader Award from the Wesleyan Investive. These five spiritual entrepreneurs share their wisdom through stories and reflections that will encourage and challenge you and ultimately ignite your imagination as a leader.
Rev. Lisa Greenwood interviews her co-host for this season, Casper ter Kuile. Casper is the author of The Power of Ritual and the co-founder of Sacred Design Lab, a soul-centered research and development lab. Casper shares his analysis of the spiritual landscape in America today, the two discuss Lisa’s work on the mixed ecology of church and together they talk with Tom Locke, President of TMF and Wesleyan Investive. This episode is jam-packed with insight about purpose that invites reflection about how your church or organization’s purpose is aligning with the spiritual needs of our world today.
QUOTES
- “Folks are still as hungry for belonging, their experiences of spiritual growth and becoming, to feel connected to something beyond themselves. It just looks different, and so, what we have to do is to be attuned to see where are people going to try and find it. ” -Casper ter Kuile [07:19]
- “I would never begin to think that I’m driving those values. I think those values are driving me.” -Tom Locke [29:08]
TIMESTAMPS
- [00:01] Intro
- [00:40] Meet co-host Casper ter Kuile
- [02:35] Significant moments in Casper’s life
- [06:34] What he’s seeing in the landscape
- [10:18] A podcast beyond Harry Potter
- [13:03] How Lisa found mixed spiritual ecology
- [16:33] The thinking behind these awards
- [20:56] Meet Tom Locke
- [22:16] Why purpose is central for Tom and the church
- [24:55] The evolution for TMF
- [29:54] Why invest in innovative leaders
- [35:09] The role of foundations
- [38:36] How TMF embraced its current mission
- [43:11] Three rapid fire questions
- [46:23] A blessing
- [47:29] Outro
RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
For information about Casper ter Kuile, visit his website: caspertk.com and check out the work of Sacred Design Lab at sacred.design
This season features Wesleyan Investive’s 2021 Tom Locke Innovative Award winners. The award honors spiritual entrepreneurs who have envisioned a broader mission field and have taken risks to make their God-sized dreams a reality. For more information about the award and the recipients, visit award.wesleyaninvestive.org
“God Has Work for Us To Do” music and lyrics by Mark Miller. Visit Mark’s website at markamillermusic.com or find him on YouTube at youtube.com/c/markismusic67
This podcast is brought to you by the Leadership Ministry team at TMF and Wesleyan Investive. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission. For more information and to support TMF’s Leadership Ministry, visit tmf-fdn.org/leadership-ministry.
Rev. Liliana Padilla is the Senior Pastor of Westlawn United Methodist Church in San Antonio, Texas. She has overcome many obstacles in ministry. When she was ordained in Mexico, she was prevented from pastoring a church because she was a married woman. When she came to the United States, she had to go through the ordination process again. When she went through divorce, she had to overcome the stigma of divorce in her community.
Liliana has never let obstacles prevent her from pursuing God’s call on her life. When COVID-19 hit, it greatly affected her congregation. Some lost their jobs. Some were not able to work because they had to stay home with their children. Families with limited access to the internet and fewer devices than children struggled to keep their kids from falling behind in class. Liliana shares how she drew on her own story of resilience to find the strength to lead her congregation to discern God’s purpose in this time of pandemic.
QUOTES
- “Something that I like to do is try to see things as good as they can be.” -Rev. Liliana Padilla [10:59]
- “For me, the pandemic meant an opportunity to show love to people.” -Rev. Liliana Padilla [17:26]
TIMESTAMPS
- [00:00] Intro
- [01:42] Rev. Liliana’s story
- [04:42] Starting all over again
- [09:15] One step forward, two steps back
- [10:40] A huge storm with no solution
- [15:11] God opened the windows and doors
RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
Reservoirs of Resilience is inspired by the monograph written by Bishop Janice Huie. Read the full publication here.
This podcast is brought to you by TMF’s Leadership Ministry. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission. For more information and to support TMF’s Leadership Ministry, visit https://tmf-fdn.org/leadership-ministry.
How we tell the stories of our lives and the life of our church or organization makes all the difference. Bishop Robert Schnase, Bishop of the Rio Texas Conference of the United Methodist Church, details for us how narrative connects to resilience by sharing personal stories from his time as pastor and his observations as Bishop. He shares how the stories we tell ourselves shape our capacity to move through difficult circumstances. This episode will encourage and inspire you to consider the narratives in your life and leadership are shaping your way of seeing and being.
QUOTES
- “Sometimes you think of resilience, you get knocked down, you jump back up. Resilience often takes a long time. It puts you on a path that lasts for a long time.” -Bishop Robert Schnase [15:22]
- “And that again, a descending narrative, it’s not that it’s not the truth. It’s just that it’s not the whole truth.” -Bishop Robert Schnase [20:12]
TIMESTAMPS
- [00:00] Intro
- [00:22] Bishop Huie reads from Reservoirs of Resilience
- [04:01] An excerpt of Bishop Huie’s writing on the narratives of resilience
- [07:03] Meet Bishop Robert Schnase
- [08:20] A story of resilience from Bishop Schnase
- [16:36] The definition of narrative and the role of resilience through narrative
- [21:31] Two purposes to music in worship
- [23:15] Narratives in the church and among leaders that need to change
- [24:21] How leaders can help shift the descending narrative
- [30:58] What resilience looks like at an annual conference level
- [35:13] How narrative can be helpful in the church today and post-pandemic
- [38:58] Rapid fire round with three sentences
- [45:53] Bishop Huie’s reflections and takeaways
- [50:45] Outro
RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
For information about Bishop Schnase and links to all his books, visit http://robertschnase.com
The episode references Life is in the Transitions by Bruce Feiler who points to the work of Marshall Duke at Emory University to describe three categories of family narratives: ascending, descending and oscillating.
Reservoirs of Resilience is inspired by the monograph written by Bishop Janice Huie. Read the full publication here.
"That's Something" music and lyrics by Billy Crockett, © 2016 Spare Room Music, BMI, from the album In Session (with Roscoe Beck), Blue Rock Artists, 2020
"Resilience" music by Billy Crockett, © 2021 Spare Room Music, BMI
This podcast is brought to you by TMF’s Leadership Ministry. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission. For more information and to support TMF’s Leadership Ministry, visit https://tmf-fdn.org/leadership-ministry.
What is it like to live through storm after storm...after storm? Rev. Romonica Malone-Wardley is District Superintendent of the Southeast District of the Texas Annual Conference of the United Methodist Church. She has met people and congregations who have lived through one devastating storm after another. Living through a storm though doesn’t mean just surviving.
Romonica shares how instead of throwing up their hands in despair, congregations in hurricane-hit areas roll up their sleeves to help neighbors and offer hope to their communities. This episode is a powerful account about how we can lean on each other and into our purposes to weather life’s storms and find the stamina to keep moving forward.
QUOTES
- “They understand that God gives them the strength to rally and come together to support one another and their neighbors again and again and again.” -Romonica Malone-Wardley [03:01]
- “As much as they would love for there to be no storms or no need, they’ve experienced enough to look towards the future and know that it’s a reality and they want to prepare themselves to be able to help.” -Romonica Malone-Wardley [05:25]
TIMESTAMPS
- [00:00] Intro
- [01:29] Time here is marked by storms
- [03:18] Hearing these stories firsthand
- [06:48] Connexionalism at its best
RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
Reservoirs of Resilience is inspired by the monograph written by Bishop Janice Huie. Read the full publication here.
This podcast is brought to you by TMF’s Leadership Ministry. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission. For more information and to support TMF’s Leadership Ministry, visit https://tmf-fdn.org/leadership-ministry.
What is needed to enlarge the capacity of pastors, congregations, annual conferences and the denomination to become more resilient, i.e. to absorb change and retain its integrity and purpose? We pose that very deep and difficult question to Erin Hawkins, Executive Director of Connectional Ministries for the California Pacific Annual Conference and Bishop Cynthia Harvey, bishop of the United Methodist Church in Louisiana and President of the Council of Bishops.
You’ll notice this is one of our longer episodes. The content was so rich with these two dynamic leaders, we didn’t want you to miss a minute of the conversation, so we didn’t cut much. They discuss the current state of the church, what resilience looks like for the church, and what changes they are hoping to see in the denomination. We suspect that like us, by the end of the episode your own reservoir of resilience will be a bit more full of grace.
QUOTES
- “We think systemically because we’re a large institution and our system’s thinking has us reduced and separate so that we can better analyze and organize and change the parts. And I’m increasingly convinced that what will help to transform us is becoming masters not of the parts, but of the relationship between the parts.” -Erin Hawkins [28:12]
- “Right now, I would love to see us do a total realignment of where we invest ourselves. How are we using our time and our money and our resources to do a good and joyful thing?” -Bishop Cynthia Harvey [49:53]
TIMESTAMPS
- [00:00] Intro
- [00:23] Bishop Huie reads from Reservoirs of Resilience
- [04:17] An excerpt of Bishop Huie’s writing
- [07:18] Meet Erin and Bishop Harvey
- [09:01] The current reality: challenges the church is facing
- [16:50] Actions for leaders to help lead a resilient church
- [23:55] What does a resilient church look like
- [33:53] The changes Erin hopes to see in her anti-racism work
- [38:44] How Erin stay resilient
- [45:20] The changes Bishop Harvey hopes to see as President of the Council of Bishops
- [51:17] Rapid fire round with three sentences
- [52:15] Bishop Huie’s reflections and takeaways
- [56:34] Outro
RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
Follow Bishop Harvey on Facebook -- Cynthia Fierro Harvey
Read the press release about Erin Hawkins new role as the Executive Director of Connectional Ministries with the California-Pacific Conference of the UMC here.
Follow the General Commission on Religion and Race of the United Methodist Church @GCORR_UMC
Reservoirs of Resilience is inspired by the monograph written by Bishop Janice Huie. Read the full publication here.
"That's Something" music and lyrics by Billy Crockett, © 2016 Spare Room Music, BMI, from the album In Session (with Roscoe Beck), Blue Rock Artists, 2020
"Resilience" music by Billy Crockett, © 2021 Spare Room Music, BMI
This podcast is brought to you by TMF’s Leadership Ministry. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission. For more information and to support TMF’s Leadership Ministry, visit https://tmf-fdn.org/leadership-ministry.
Mike Smith is Executive Director of the Holding Institute in Laredo, Texas. He shares the story of a plant at his home that offers a poignant illustration of resilience. Mike is an excellent storyteller who talks about how watering what appeared to be dead is a lesson we can all apply in our own context. While this is our shortest story shared so far in our series, the powerful image of new life will stay with you for a long time.
QUOTES
- “When we’re talking about resilience, it’s not just us, but it’s those whom we serve.” -Mike Smith [05:45]
- “It’s more than tilling the soil. It’s putting something into there.” -Mike Smith [06:23]
TIMESTAMPS
- [00:00] Intro
- [01:08] Sacrificing plant #3
- [04:33] Watering the bucket of dirt
RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
Reservoirs of Resilience is inspired by the monograph written by Bishop Janice Huie. Read the full publication here.
This podcast is brought to you by TMF’s Leadership Ministry. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission. For more information and to support TMF’s Leadership Ministry, visit https://tmf-fdn.org/leadership-ministry.
What better person to talk with about the reservoir of courage than Dr. Gil Rendle, whose book Quietly Courageous has profoundly impacted our work and the work of many leaders in ministry and beyond. He is a retired Senior Vice President and part-time consultant with The Texas Methodist Foundation in Austin, Texas and an independent consultant working with issues of change and leadership in denominations.
Rendle has an extensive background in organizational development, group and systems theory, and leadership development. He has consulted with congregations on planning, staff and leadership development, and issues of change. He is well known for his work with middle judicatory and national denominational offices and staff as they wrestle with denominational and congregational change.
There is no doubt that courage is required for leaders today, and Gil does an excellent job in the book and in our conversation with offering provocative takeaways for leaders on how to lead with courage in such a time like this. You may want to have your notepad ready for this conversation with Gil, this episode is packed with practical ideas for becoming a courageous leader in your context.
QUOTES
- “That is one of the things about temptations. They do feel very rich and rewarding, but actually you’re feeding off yourself.” -Dr. Gil Rendle [26:12]
- “If you’re a leader, you have to learn how to stand in the center and move at least one foot towards the edge.” -Dr. Gil Rendle [31:40]
TIMESTAMPS
- [00:00] Intro
- [00:24] Bishop Huie reads from Reservoirs of Resilience
- [03:40] An excerpt of Bishop Huie’s writing on the reservoir of courage
- [06:32] Meet Gil Rendle
- [07:46] The connection between courage and resilience
- [09:34] What is quiet courage
- [13:57] Disturb the system and ask questions
- [19:41] Relationship between conversation, quiet courage and purpose
- [24:45] Temptations leaders face and how to recognize and not give into them
- [29:13] Quiet courage and focusing on the edge
- [33:58] Guidance for congregation leaders
- [36:22] Rapid fire round with three sentences
- [37:57] Bishop Huie’s reflections and takeaways
- [41:22] Outro
RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
Today’s episode included conversation based on insights from Gil Rendle’s most recent book Quietly Courageous: Leading the Church in a Changing World. Gil can be reached at GRendle@tmf-fdn.org
Reservoirs of Resilience is inspired by the monograph written by Bishop Janice Huie. Read the full publication here.
"That's Something" music and lyrics by Billy Crockett, © 2016 Spare Room Music, BMI, from the album In Session (with Roscoe Beck), Blue Rock Artists, 2020
"Resilience" music by Billy Crockett, © 2021 Spare Room Music, BMI
This podcast is brought to you by TMF’s Leadership Ministry. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission. For more information and to support TMF’s Leadership Ministry, visit https://tmf-fdn.org/leadership-ministry.
When Bill Lamar was appointed Senior Pastor of Metropolitan African Methodist Episcopal Church in Washington, D.C, which sits on the longest continuously held piece of property by persons of African descent in the District of Columbia, the Bishop asked him how he felt. Rev. Lamar said he felt like he had 200 years of history on his back. The Bishop agreed and said, “Now go do something with it.”
Rev. Lamar, now in his seventh year as pastor of Metropolitan, draws resilience from ancestors of the past and visions of future generations who will continue the church’s ministry. This story is a powerful account of the church’s capacity to be more loyal to what God is doing in the world than to anything or anyone else. “The church has to be resilient enough to understand our power is not generated from the government of the United States but our power is generated from the one who defeated death.” Rev. Lamar’s story will inspire and challenge you to discover the depths of your resilience and lead with purpose.
QUOTES
- “You don’t know what you have until you get there, until you live among the people.” -Rev. Bill Lamar [03:03]
- “Being in the presence of God, living in the divine life frees us and that liberation is not just spiritual. That liberation is physical, emotional, economic, politically.” -Rev. Bill Lamar [12:24]
TIMESTAMPS
- [00:00] Intro
- [02:08] An address change
- [05:21] Understanding what had come before him
- [08:53] His source of resilience
- [13:12] What it looks like today
RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
Rev. Bill Lamar is the co-host of "Can These Bones," the Faith & Leadership podcast, and can be reached on Twitter @WilliamHLamarIV.
Rev. Lamar mentions the book, Eyewitness: The Negro in American History (A Living Documentary of the Afro-American Contribution to U.S. History) by William Loren Katz
Reservoirs of Resilience is inspired by the monograph written by Bishop Janice Huie. Read the full publication here.
This podcast is brought to you by TMF’s Leadership Ministry. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission. For more information and to support TMF’s Leadership Ministry, visit https://tmf-fdn.org/leadership-ministry.
Our guests Dori Baker and Stephen Lewis know all about drawing on the reservoir of purpose. They literally wrote one of the best books about purpose we have read! Together with co-author Matthew Wesley Williams, their book Another Way: Living and Leading Change on Purpose, published in 2020, offers a new way of leadership for the 21st Century.
Dr. Dori Baker is an ordained United Methodist elder in the Virginia Annual Conference. She’s an educator, activist, and scholar focused on feminist theologies, critical race theory, young adult culture, leadership development and spiritual practices that sustain activism.
Stephen Lewis is the President of the Forum for Theological Exploration (also known as FTE), which is a national leadership incubator that cultivates wise, faithful and courageous leaders who make a difference in the world through the church and academy. He is an organizational change strategist and facilitator, and a leadership development specialist, focused on helping leaders to discover their purpose, passion and calling in life.
Our conversation with Dori and Stephen is packed with fresh insights about seeing leadership as a communal practice, the role of deep listening, and the work of discerning purpose that requires both risk and courage. As their “Another Way Manifesto” puts it, “There is a future that mourns if you and I do not step into our purpose.” It is not too much to say that there is also a future that mourns if you do not listen to the inspiration and wisdom Dori and Stephen offer in this episode.
QUOTES
- “Resilience in some aspects for me is this idea that it’s our ability to bounce back, and we can only bounce back from these disappointments, from our rejection of people saying no when we recognize that we are not our actions.” -Stephen Lewis [12:04]
- “Reflecting theologically and critically together is communal. It’s critical, and it’s for the sake of action.” -Dr. Dori Baker [27:15]
TIMESTAMPS
- [00:00] Intro
- [00:24] Bishop Huie reads from Reservoirs of Resilience
- [03:37] An excerpt of Bishop Huie’s writing on the reservoir of purpose
- [05:56] Meet Dr. Dori Baker and Stephen Lewis
- [08:11] The authors’ take on purpose and resilience
- [13:00] How our culture has limited the understanding of purpose
- [18:48] CARE - what does stand for and how it relates to purpose and resilience
- [33:19] How they help young leaders center themselves when they feel discouraged
- [40:10] How to use CARE practices to lead an organization through change
- [52:42] Rapid fire round with three sentences
- [54:13] Bishop Huie’s reflections and takeaways
- [56:16] Outro
RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
Today’s episode focused on conversation from themes found in Another Way: Living and Leading Change on Purpose by Dori Baker, Stephen Lewis, and Matthew Wesley Williams.
Podcast and additional resources on Another Way can be found at https://fteleaders.org/anotherway
For more information about Dori Baker and her work as a consultant, visit: www.doribaker.com
Find out more about the work of the Forum for Theological Exploration at fteleaders.org.
Stephen Lewis founded DO GOOD X, a start-up accelerator for diverse, faith-rooted entrepreneurs creating social good ventures. For more information: dogoodx.org.
"That's Something" music and lyrics by Billy Crockett, © 2016 Spare Room Music, BMI, from the album In Session (with Roscoe Beck), Blue Rock Artists, 2020
"Resilience" music by Billy Crockett, © 2021 Spare Room Music, BMI
Reservoirs of Resilience is inspired by the monograph written by Bishop Janice Huie. Read the full publication here.
This podcast is brought to you by TMF’s Leadership Ministry. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission. For more information and to support TMF’s Leadership Ministry, visit https://tmf-fdn.org/leadership-ministry.
Ugonna Onuoha’s daughter Agnes was diagnosed with lupus in third grade and passed away in 2019 at age 23. Ugonna tells the story of Agnes’ illness and death to an audience for the first time in this episode. As a hospital chaplain at Children’s Medical Center, Ugonna has sat with countless families as they navigate illness and grieve loss. She reflects on how going through her own loss has affected her ministry. Ugonna’s deep faith and reliance on scripture is profound; she embodies resilience through her life and it comes through in this powerful recording.
QUOTES
- “Living with Agnes’ illness helped me to begin to talk about my faith in a way that was not outside, but something that was really personal in a way.” -Ugonna Onuoha [04:31]
- “I found God to be real and truthful and honest and a companion and a good God in the midst of that pain.” -Ugonna Onuoha [06:49]
TIMESTAMPS
- [00:00] Intro
- [01:21] Raising a child with lupus
- [06:13] The image of the Good Shepherd
- [10:11] Receiving comfort and support
- [14:38] Taking care of herself
- [17:37] The great pain
- [20:00] Three things to surround yourself with
RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
Reservoirs of Resilience is inspired by the monograph written by Bishop Janice Huie. Read the full publication here.
This podcast is brought to you by TMF’s Leadership Ministry. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission. For more information and to support TMF’s Leadership Ministry, visit https://tmf-fdn.org/leadership-ministry.
In this episode of Reservoirs of Resilience podcast, Lisa Greenwood, Vice President of Leadership Ministry at Texas Methodist Foundation (TMF), and Bishop Janice Huie, Leadership Formation at TMF, speak with Colette Pierce Burnette.
Dr. Burnette knows about drawing on the reservoir of hope to survive and thrive through difficult times. As President and CEO of Huston-Tillotson University, Dr. Burnette reflects on the hope she receives from her students, many of whom are first-generation, and how maintaining hope helps her to navigate the challenging landscape of higher education today. Her wisdom about how to live and lead out of hope, especially when facing one challenge after another, is not to be missed. The vulnerability and leadership Dr. Burnette demonstrates, even through this conversation, is remarkable.
QUOTES
- “I’m hopeful that in my children’s lifetime or their children’s lifetime, we as a nation will continue to get to this space of equity, every realm with every generation. Because if I think about the people that marched across the Selma bridge and people like my father, if they had just kind of given up and succumbed to the lifestyle that has been driven to them, I’d wouldn’t be here sitting here as the president of Huston-Tillotson University having this conversation with you right now.” -Dr. Colette Pierce Burnette [12:08]
- “She said to me that in a meeting that they were having, someone said ‘This community is so resilient.’ She said that there was a Black woman who stood up and said, ‘When does resilience become abuse?’” -Dr. Colette Pierce Burnette [29:17]
TIMESTAMPS
- [00:00] Intro
- [00:24] Bishop Huie reads from Reservoirs of Resilience
- [03:45] A reflection from Bishop Huie’s writing on the reservoir of hope
- [06:36] Meet Dr. Colette Pierce Burnette
- [08:25] A personal story of how hope that helped her become resilient
- [14:51] Hope is a noun and a verb
- [19:08] What gives Dr. Burnette hope
- [23:19] What it means to her to be an agent of hope
- [28:05] Who are her agents of hope
- [30:47] Wisdom to help people reorient towards living a sense of hope
- [36:21] Dealing with fear of the unknown
- [38:11] Rapid fire round with three sentences
- [39:09] Bishop Huie’s reflections and takeaways
- [42:34] Outro
RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
Follow Colette Pierce Burnette on Twitter @HTPresCPB
Facebook - Colette Pierce Burnett
Instagram - colettepb
Huston-Tillotson University (HT) nurtures a legacy of leadership and excellence in education, connecting knowledge, power, passion, and values. Find out more about HT and support their mission by visiting https://htu.edu
Learn more about Rabbi Lord Jonathan Sacks, who Dr. Burnette references in the podcast, at https://rabbisacks.org.
Reservoirs of Resilience is inspired by the monograph written by Bishop Janice Huie. Read the full publication here.
"That's Something" music and lyrics by Billy Crockett, © 2016 Spare Room Music, BMI, from the album In Session (with Roscoe Beck), Blue Rock Artists, 2020
"Resilience" music by Billy Crockett, © 2021 Spare Room Music, BMI
This podcast is brought to you by TMF’s Leadership Ministry. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission. For more information and to support TMF’s Leadership Ministry, visit https://tmf-fdn.org/leadership-ministry.
We asked six resilient leaders to share a story of resilience with us. We originally planned to include a “Story of Resilience” segment at the end of each episode. Not surprisingly, each story we recorded was incredible and inspiring! We wanted to make sure you didn’t miss these stories and feared you might if they were at the end of episodes. So, our six episode podcast now includes six additional bonus episodes! Each bonus episode features a leader’s answer to our invitation to “tell us a story of resilience.” Each leader shares a story that is powerful, poetic, and deeply personal. We are really grateful for their vulnerability and hope their stories will inspire you as they did us.
In our first Bonus Episode, Martha Valencia shares the story of her congregation’s partnership with a church in Honduras and her friendship with their pastor who has faced significant challenges, including helping his already poverty-stricken congregation navigate two hurricanes and a pandemic. His example of resilient leadership has inspired and sustained Martha as she grieves the loss of her mother to Covid-19 while continuing to lead her congregation through these difficult times.
Martha Valencia
Rev. Martha Valencia is the Senior Pastor of Elmwood-El Buen Samaritano UMC in Dallas, Texas.
QUOTES
- “What he started to do was visit members one by one on his bicycle and go outside of their homes and simply share a word of encouragement and love from outside their homes, from outside their door, outside their window.” -Martha Valencia [05:39]
- “Every time we talk to him, it is “Blessed it be in the name of the Lord.’” -Martha Valencia [08:16]
TIMESTAMPS
- [00:00] Intro
- [02:07] Martha meets Pastor Lara
- [04:51] Pastor Lara’s shares the word of God
- [06:56] Hurricanes hit Honduras
RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
- Elmwood-El Buen Samaritano UMC in Dallas
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
Reservoirs of Resilience is inspired by the monograph written by Bishop Janice Huie. Read the full publication here.
This podcast is brought to you by TMF’s Leadership Ministry. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission. For more information and to support TMF’s Leadership Ministry, visit https://tmf-fdn.org/leadership-ministry.
In this episode of Reservoirs of Resilience podcast, Lisa Greenwood, Vice President of Leadership Ministry at Texas Methodist Foundation (TMF), and Bishop Janice Huie, who works in Leadership Formation at TMF, speak with Dr. Tod Bolsinger, Senior Congressional Strategist and Associate Professor of Leadership Formation at Fuller Seminary. Dr. Bolsinger offers insight on what resilient leadership looks like today. He describes the character qualities required of a resilient leader, how stress makes a leader and why anyone facing constant resistance should keep leading.
QUOTES
- “The hardest thing about leading change is having to grapple with our own vulnerability.” -Dr. Tod Bolsinger [15:12]
- “Empathy is what we need for leadership. Because when you attuned to people and they feel cared for, they will trust you and go further into their own pain and further into their own discomfort if they don’t.” -Dr. Tod Bolsinger [20:21]
TIMESTAMPS
- [00:00] Intro
- [00:26] Bishop Huie reads from Reservoirs of Resilience
- [03:01] An overview of the six episodes of this podcast
- [05:23] An excerpt of Bishop Huie’s writing about resilience
- [08:49] Meet Dr. Tod Bolsinger
- [09:50] How Dr. Bolsinger thinks about resilience
- [11:16] Crucible of change
- [13:52] Blacksmithing metaphor
- [18:27] Character qualities of a resilient leader
- [21:38] Why work so hard to face resistance and how stress can make a leader
- [29:30] What does tempered resilience mean for a pastor today
- [32:51] What Dr. Bolsinger means by Rule of Life and why it’s important
- [36:45] Rapid fire round with three sentences
- [38:36] Bishop Huie’s reflections and takeaways
- [41:44] Outro
RESOURCES & RELEVANT LINKS
- Resilience: Why Things Bounce Back by Andrew Zolli and Ann Marie Healy
- Grit: The Power of Passion and Perseverance by Angela Duckworth
If you enjoy the podcast, would you please consider leaving a short review on Apple Podcasts / iTunes?
Follow Tod Bolsinger: @todbol
For more resources from Tod and his team, text change to 66866.
Find out more about the De Pree Center Church Leadership Initiative at depree.org/church.
Tod Bolsinger is the author of Canoeing the Mountains, It Takes a Church to Raise a Christian, and most recently, Tempered Resilience: How Leaders are Formed in the Crucible of Change.
Reservoirs of Resilience is inspired by the monograph written by Bishop Janice Huie. Read the full publication here.
"That's Something" music and lyrics by Billy Crockett, © 2016 Spare Room Music, BMI, from the album In Session (with Roscoe Beck), Blue Rock Artists, 2020
"Resilience" music by Billy Crockett, © 2021 Spare Room Music, BMI
This podcast is brought to you by TMF’s Leadership Ministry. Leadership Ministry connects diverse, high capacity leaders in conversations and environments that create a network of courage, learning, and innovation in order to help the church lean into its God-appointed mission. For more information and to support TMF’s Leadership Ministry, visit https://tmf-fdn.org/leadership-ministry.
What do leaders need in this moment of unprecedented challenge and change?
Resilience. This podcast from Texas Methodist Foundation’s Leadership Ministry is based on Bishop Janice Huie’s publication “Reservoirs of Resilience.” Each episode is packed with insights and inspiration from people who lead with hope, purpose, and courage. The stories and ideas they share will encourage and equip you to deepen your capacity for resilience so that you can not only survive in this challenging season, but thrive and even strive for the world God imagines.