The Ten Thousand Things

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Sam, Joe and Ali reflect on our experiences in therapy. Sometimes the results seem clear – other times they’re hard to see. All agree it’s important to compare your progress to your past self, not some idealised perfect self.

We discuss people who don’t think they need therapy. Ali mentions people who “prefer to work things out themselves”.

Sam discusses the frustration of the session ending after 50 minutes – Joe says he wants an 8 hour MDMA therapy session – Sam wants to get on the ketamine.

Parents get a light going over. Sam discusses a breakthrough around his time in Hare Krishna boarding school. Things can’t be fully resolved, but they can be carried more lightly.

Does Bill Burr think therapy is bullshit, or does he do it? (We think so)

Ali discusses sharing her darkest secrets with Joe and the trust involved in the that.

We discuss psychiatrists vs psychologists and where bipolar comes from. Joe says he can intellectualise feelings but struggles to actually feel feelings.

Ali says three years is the sweet spot for how long therapy should take to work.

Sam reckons more like 10 years for him and talks about being exasperating.

We conclude with a discussion of the psychoanalytic method and why we always end up back in childhood.

(00:00) - Theme
(00:17) - Intro
(00:23) - How do we know therapy is working?
(01:13) - Compare yourself to six months ago
(01:44) - You forget how f***d up you were
(02:39) - Journal entries help track progress
(03:05) - Using prayer to overcome thoughts
(04:18) - "They said I'm fine" said Person needing therapy
(05:22) - You're here to 'do the reps'
(05:40) - Is there a 40 year old that doesn't need therapy?
(07:24) - Subsidised therapy in Australia
(08:19) - Sometimes it wasn't working
(08:50) - Write a long email - delete most of it
(09:41) - Bill Burr and therapy
(10:32) - End of a session, castration anxiety
(13:22) - I haven't hit a limit with therapy yet
(13:34) - I don't waste my time in there
(14:13) - Pick any childhood memory and start there
(14:35) - It's actually about NOT blaming your parents
(15:36) - You're flawed, and your parents too
(16:32) - The wound was already there
(16:47) - Boarding school trauma - need to tell the story properly
(18:24) - It's not about more recent things
(19:16) - You feel you're doing what you need to be doing
(19:36) - Not resolve, but hold it more lightly
(22:48) - I'm curious about why people are like they are
(24:33) - You don't need a pat on the back
(25:54) - It's not about your diagnosis
(27:07) - Therapy helps with nature and nurture
(28:24) - My awful habit of giving advice
(28:44) - I'm containing things more
(29:23) - Getting to 'You're safe now'
(31:05) - You can be trusted, you are a safe pair of hands
(31:31) - Being persuaded you aren't a bad person
(32:13) - Many women will begin with self blame
(33:17) - Deconstruction and Construction
(34:22) - The final level boss
(37:32) - It may take three years
(38:51) - Resisting therapy, realising you can change
(41:42) - Neurotic misery to normal unhappiness

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We ask if we are willing to compromise to be in a long-term monogamous relationship?

Sam discusses how to, whether we need to and to what extent we need to compromise.

Ali shares how a lot of women have fallen in love with the idea of being single.

We acknowledge all relationships require compromise however can we compromise our values? Can your values be flexible or do we become stuck in our ways the longer we remain single?

We also discuss in distorted times do distorted dynamics come in to play, is finding a sugar daddy/mamma the answer to living under capitalism?

Joe thinks we would be better off dropping some the mental load, but it is that possible for women when the expectation is that women need to manage that?

Episode image by listener Craig, catch more of his great stuff on the gram

We appreciate your feedback, if you would like to reach out you can find us on threads and instagram @thetenthousandthings

Toasted sandwhich recipes:
Ali's: Put mayo on the outside, cheese and kimchi in the middle, cook in the pan

Sam's: Butter and oil in the pan, low-medium heat, heavy base if you have it
Cheese - a mix of whatever, slices of mozarella, swiss, colby, cheer, whatever
Tomato paste, toss on some dried italian herb mix
Optional: Fresh tomato slices, but if you do, mandatory* cheese above and below the tomato slices

*(can butter the outside of the bread and just put it straight on the pan)

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This week we listened to a Mamamia podcast where Mia Freedman interviews Caitlin Moran on her latest book "What about men?" and discuss our thoughts.

We acknowledge we are all victims of the patriarchy, but what tools do men have to help dismantle it? Why don't they identify with feminism and why are the gravitating towards extreme figures?

Ali explains why feminism has been helpful in plight of women, however men are not identifying with these strategies. Why can't men post photos of themselves and not be ridiculed?

Joe felt the interview was a little condescending. He asks if young boys have no lived experience of seeing women so openly objectified as they historically were, why are they feeling like somehow they are still responsible for it? We discuss how we can help the young men in our lives navigating these challenges.

Sam explores how the discourse analysis has been one sided and produced reactionary politics to feminism and how the facts of how men are negatively effected by the patriarchy is getting lost in the conversation.

We also discuss what men today can do to portray positive masculine role models for young men.

We appreciate your feedback, if you want to reach out you can find us on instagram and threads @thetenthousandthingspodcast

Find the interview here https://pod.link/995159486/episode/6573549cf512e72c5f770439a827702a

Publisher's page for What about men? by Caitlin Moran https://www.penguin.com.au/books/what-about-men-9781529149159

A decent article on patriarchy, men and masculinities - https://counseling.vcu.edu/students/identity-based-resources/men-and-masculinities/

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What are feelpinions? - Ali shares her definition and how she views it through a Dialectical Behavioural lens of logic and emotion. Sam elaborates why all extremes are mutually constitutive and why logic needs emotion and emotion needs logic, Joe however, wants more facts.

We ask how do feelpinions affect our day to day? Are they needed to run the country or just good value in the cricket group chat?

We share what sources we use to get our facts and how the perceived value of those facts influence how we feel about them. Ali likes her ritual of subscription news, Joe enjoys paid substack articles from bloggers while Sam prefers primary sources and secondary analysis.

Can we trust our feelings and how do we manage our feelings when the facts feel terrifying? We explore how we manage the balance of fear with facts.

We appreciate your feedback, if you want to reach out you can you can find us on instagram and threads @thetenthousandthingspodcast

Episode image by Craig, catch more of his great stuff on the gram

(00:00) - Theme
(00:19) - Introduction
(00:31) - Definition, and fact checking is for other people
(01:24) - Are opinions a problem?
(01:59) - The wise mind - dialectical behaviour therapy
(03:33) - Recognising error and culpability, exalted being / worthless being
(04:44) - Extremes make each other - cops make hippies and hippies make cops
(06:10) - They stole the presents from under the Christmas tree
(08:47) - Speaking with an authoritative tone
(09:59) - Feelpinions in sport
(11:13) - The ideal republic governed by detached intellectuals?
(11:54) - Subscribing to writers of long articles on Substack
(13:48) - Rational to feel sick about wind turbines?
(17:14) - SamGPT
(17:59) - Paying someone to tell you what to think
(19:11) - Joe used to read the Economist, and pay for it
(19:30) - If you pay, you value it
(21:32) - Noah Smith and Matt Yglesias
(22:02) - Paying to get a better quality of opinion - The Age and Guardian suck now
(25:13) - Following Ukraine conflict through bloggers, Telegram, and academics
(27:35) - The incentive is to spread rumour
(28:05) - The Age is very bad now - in case we didnt already say that
(29:14) - Crowd funded blog journalists, Matt Yglesias, NoahPininion, Matt Taibbi
(29:44) - The market beats us all out of shape in the end
(30:02) - I'm interested once it becomes old news
(30:44) - Why does Putin wanna kill me with a nuke?
(31:22) - Putin will sort all the problems out
(31:50) - MAGA still matters? Yes, and no. Christian Identity and Maga Communism
(33:10) - So you guys aren't worried about facts being hard to establish?
(33:22) - Is the Montana survivalist actually crazier than the Christian fascist?
(33:50) - Planning for a future, what future? Losing a parent young
(35:06) - Don't worry, we all love facts
(35:24) - Distrusting your feelings
(36:41) - Nixon didn't blow up Vietnam, not with nukes anyway
(37:38) - I just need to talk this stuff through sometimes / don't worry about things you can't change
(39:10) - Douglas Murray - read the news for five minutes only. Also he seems fash
(39:59) - ABC News app
(40:25) - Podcast recommendations
(42:25) - Centrist and the lure of false rationality
(43:10) - People don't read the articles we share
(43:59) - Who would I send this to? No one, that's who
(44:36) - Joe shoulld have his own feed: breaking down centrist coverage
(45:24) - Michael Schellenberger
(46:05) - The end of the world is not the end of the world
(47:00) - The algorithm treats us to the dialectic, too much of this, and now, too much of the other
(48:06) - Joe Rogan and Greta Thunberg
(49:33) - Joe Rogan before he was really big
(51:10) - Lucky to have wise friends
(51:41) - Feelings help absorb the facts
(52:55) - A vague sense that we might muddle through

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"The meaning of life"

Welcome back Joe and welcome to a new format.

Here at the ten thousand things we have decided to tackle the ten thousand things that distract us from loving awareness one thing at a time, so we will now be devoting each episode to one topic where we can really delve into the questions we ask.

This week we have TTTT listener Oly ask us what is the meaning of life? We explore what means to us personally and what does it mean for us collectively.

Sam believes we need to take responsibility of our own meaning and the meaning we ascribe to others, but ultimately it should be about fun.

Ali believes we have a purpose but is unsure that purpose has meaning, however we can find meaning in moments.

Joe has a more sentimental take and believes those connections can't happen in isolation but with people.

We hope you enjoy the new format and appreciate any feedback, you can find us on instagram and threads @thetenthousandthingspodcast.

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Something a little different from The Ten Thousand Things, Joe is taking a well deserved break in beautiful Vietnam so Sam and Ali take the opportunity to discuss all things Autism/ADHD through their lived experiences.

1 - How has neurodiversity contributed to our biggest successes and failures?

Sam and Ali share how their neurodiversity impacts their day to day lives, are we doing the right things at the right time? We also share how we've learnt to work with our differences rather than against it.

2 - Who runs the world?

Women, young women specifically. We discuss how these young trailblazers and taste makers define the cultural landscape and what we can learn from them to fit in.

3 - Nigella, the domestic goddess.

Sam and Ali's special interests cross over and we deep dive into all things Nigella and how we use food to connect with the "normies".

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Self actualisation / non monogamy / Communism1 - Quotation corner "Ageing is an extraordinary process where you become the person you always thought you should be" David BowieAli explains why this quote resonated with her. Sam discusses why finding your medium for expression is so important and Joe shares how he's found contentment through podcasting. We discuss trying to find your cultural capital and is self actualisation just faking it until you make it?2 - Non monogamySam explains the patriarchal and matricentric dynamics of bonobos and how we are not so different from our chimpanzee counterparts. Joe delves into how jealousy and insecurity make polyamory difficult and Ali shares her thoughts on why she doesn't think men are very good at non monogamy. We ask are all the "narmies" polyamorous and is that better?3 - Listener mailEben has written in to ask Sam if he is in fact a card carrying communist and what role, if any, does communism have in 2023? We share our beliefs and what we would like to put in to practice.--- Send in a voice message: https://podcasters.spotify.com/pod/show/thetenthousandthings/message

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Our parent's values / Crying / Jaded dating profiles

1 - How did our parents values shape our own?

Ali shares how she's not only grown into her parents' values. Sam explores the dichotomy of how his parents created a culture of questioning in a Hare Krishna environment and Joe shares how his parents politics influenced their values. We also ask whether boomers will ever be able to see how good they had it.

2 - Is crying for losers?

Ali shares how her views on crying have changed and how she's come to embrace it. Sam details some anecdotes of how women don't like crying and how that impacts men feeling comfortable expressing emotions. Joe explains why he would like to be able to tap into the cathartic experience of crying. We also discuss how our own attitudes towards crying have shaped our responses to seeing other people cry.

The Relationship of Gender Roles and Beliefs to Crying in an International Sample3 - Jaded dating profiles

We delve into jaded dating profiles, should we be using the space to express our deal breakers, or if you get to that point, should you just take a break?

------ (☞ﾟヮﾟ)☞

If you would like to learn a bit more about the podcast or u,s feel free to follow us on Instagram @thetenthousandthingspodcast https://www.instagram.com/thetenthousandthingspodcast/

Joe @joefanebustloh, Sam @toomanypictureswillneverbeseen and Ali @ali_from_reso

Image courtesy of Craig Wishart

Our show page is at https://tttt.transistor.fm/

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Leaning in, to content, confidence and courage.

Do we read books anymore? / How do you rate yourself? / Is spirituality just watered down religion?

1 - Are you a book dragon or a book worm? We ask how in an ever increasing time poor society is there time to read and does it matter what medium and content you're reading?

Sam shares why he believes physical books are not necessary and that reading and learning are more accessible than ever before. Joe is worried the kids are not reading anymore and longs to be able to curl up at night with a good book. Ali shares why she loves to give away her books.

2 - If we can't all be 7s can we objectively rate ourselves? We break down why the system of rating is complex and the value we place different attributes. Why do men consistently rate themselves higher and women lower?

Ali believes comparison is the thief of joy and we should just try to find the people who think we are 10s. Sam shares how as we get older, through hard work you can improve your rating and Joe discusses the different values men and women places on looks vs other attributes. We all agree we are ageing like fine wines.

3 - Listener mail from Hugh McGinlay - we give Hugh a second bite of the apple and ask if modern day spirituality is just watered down religion and discuss the courage to pursue your beliefs.

Joe explains how his experience of God has been profound in his life. Ali shares and why she places her faith in science. Sam is still waiting for a sign. We explore if we don't need organised religion anymore can we connect with the divine through psychosis, drugs and sex?

Art by Craig Wishart

And a little DVD extra - a chat about Ali joining the show

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How the language of therapy took over dating / The little things that help / Death

1 - Are we able to diagnose our dates? Should we?

Ali discusses if therapists are having proxy relationships through us or is it better to just focus on clear communication instead? Joe finds "red flags" limiting and wants a more nuanced conversation. Sam shares how the mystery of long term relationships remains. We also discuss if datings apps are ruining monogamy or do we all just want to stay in the lavender haze?

https://www.nytimes.com/2023/02/11/style/therapy-speak-dating.html

“I don’t know if I’ve learned anything yet! I did learn how to have a happy home, but I consider myself fortunate in that regard because I could’ve rolled right by it. Everybody has a superficial side and a deep side, but this culture doesn’t place much value on depth — we don’t have shamans or soothsayers, and depth isn’t encouraged or understood. Surrounded by this shallow, glossy society we develop a shallow side, too, and we become attracted to fluff. That’s reflected in the fact that this culture sets up an addiction to romance based on insecurity — the uncertainty of whether or not you’re truly united with the object of your obsession is the rush people get hooked on. I’ve seen this pattern so much in myself and my friends and some people never get off that line.

But along with developing my superficial side, I always nurtured a deeper longing, so even when I was falling into the trap of that other kind of love, I was hip to what I was doing. I recently read an article in Esquire magazine called ‘The End of Sex,’ that said something that struck me as very true. It said: “If you want endless repetition, see a lot of different people. If you want infinite variety, stay with one.” What happens when you date is you run all your best moves and tell all your best stories — and in a way, that routine is a method for falling in love with yourself over and over.

You can’t do that with a longtime mate because he knows all that old material. With a long relationship, things die then are rekindled, and that shared process of rebirth deepens the love. It’s hard work, though, and a lot of people run at the first sign of trouble. You’re with this person, and suddenly you look like an asshole to them or they look like an asshole to you — it’s unpleasant, but if you can get through it you get closer and you learn a way of loving that’s different from the neurotic love enshrined in movies. It’s warmer and has more padding to it.” - Joni Mitchell on long term commitment

2 - What little things do we do that help us?

Sam finds staying connected to friends, family and yourself most beneficial. Joe has found self care rituals to be very helpful. Ali shares why blondes have the most fun and why we should all "take a thousand naked pictures of yourself"

3 - Quotation corner "If the very worst comes to pass we'll only be dead, a very common and ultimately bearable occurrence"

Joe realises he needs to uproot his fear of death in order to enjoy life. Ali shares why her view on death has changed. Sam has learnt that you fear death the most when you're wasting your fucking time, so use your time wisely.

Cover Image: Be Here Now - Ram Dass

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``` Benefits!

The benefits of ChatGP / The benefits of neurodiversity / The benefits of working on yourself

1 - What are the benefits of emerging AI technologies? Will it advance us or be our undoing?

Will Joe's doomsday predictions come to fruition or will it be a golden age for human creativity? Ali has mixed feelings, will we make not just our jobs but ourselves redundant? Sam is hoping if not for complete marxist revolution that it will create a universal usefulness guarantee where we are all earning, learning and caring.

2 - What are the benefits of neurodiversity? Is capitalism maladaptive to diversity or does this diversity play a vital role in a healthy eco-system?

Ali shares her experience of re-framing her vulnerabilities as strengths and how her neurodiverity has made her better at work. Can Joe be a shaman in this capitalist hell-scape? Sam shares how he's been able to mitigate some of the chaotic elements into passion projects.

3 - Quotation corner "I can do nothing for you but work on myself and you can do nothing for me but work on yourself" - Ram Das

Can people really change? Joe addresses some feedback from boomers, are we just navel gazing or are we really "doing the work"? Sam examines the benefits of being able to check your own bullshit and Ali shares why it's in fact not selfish to put yourself first. ```

Photo by Tim Mossholder on Unsplash --- Send in a voice message: https://anchor.fm/thetenthousandthings/message

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Throwing soup at paintings / Cat dads vs dog dads / Gratitude - yeah or nah?

1 - We delve into the effectiveness of political protests. Is throwing soup at a painting going to fix the climate crisis? Are Gen Z’s really the “last generation”?

Joe shares some stories of his historical political activism and why he thinks his way was better. Ali shares some insights from a Gen Z and why they may not be the last generation but in the current political landscape it might feel like it. Sam doesn’t care that he may never see a Van Gogh, but believes this kind of protest highlights that we need to convince the majority to take action.

2 - Masculinity, what does your pet say about you? Are they a reflection of your status or are you comfortable in yourself? Is being able to control a wild animal important to you?

Joe a self identified “dog dad” examines some of his controlling behaviours in dating. Sam a “committed cat dad” is happy cheer his partner on no matter what they’re doing. Ali shares her experiences of dating both dog dads and cat dads and her thoughts on why Miley Cyrus’ “Flowers” is resonating with women of all ages. We also discuss sartorial choices and other social signals in dating.

3 - Gratitude, is it the panacea for living in a neo capitalist system?
Is it an inclusive practice or is there a darker side to “Big Gratitude”?

Sam, Joe and Ali have all practiced gratitude and have experienced the benefits, particularly for our mental health, however we explore the limitations and privilege to do so. We share some insights into our own mental health diagnoses and neurodiversity as well as how we practice gratitude and the overlap between traditional psychological methodologies, traditional religious and spiritual practices and the value they have.

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We return for Season 2. Life before and after ADHD treatment / Sam on learning / You are falling through the air without a parachute, but don't worry, there is no ground.

Joe asked, so Sam explains that before treatment for ADHD, getting things done was endlessly frustrating and chaotic. It's not magically better now, but there's been many improvements and achievements in around nine months. To be fair a lot of that is also coming from a lot of groundwork done in therapy before drug treatment. We also talk bipolar disorder, and some differences in experience between conditions with highly acute aspects such as bipolar and a condition with mainly chronic aspects such as ADHD

Joe worries about 'overwhelm' not being correct English, but that word has been very well established for quite a while now. Columbia Journalism Review has a great piece from 2017 about 'overwhelm' entering English!

Sam goes off the deep end about education, ticking all the manifesto boxes. Total rebuild of the education system - tick. Paolo Freire - tick. Learning is hard. No, you're not bad at maths. You need to learn how to learn. You must build a range of qualities and skills, not just stuff you're already good at. You must learn to engage critically with reality. Know where you're at and when in history you are situated and what might be coming. Understand you are a being capable of knowledge and ignorance. You must construct your own means of self-liberation, by engaging with reality, and with others. Joe says 'so you Robin Williams them?'. Not really, but yes, sometimes.
Quotation corner is a doozy. But it always is. The bad news is you're falling through the air, nothing to hang on to, no parachute. The good news is, there's no ground. Attributed* to Chogyam Trungpa Get that into you. It's a high mountain breeze. It'll change your life, really let it settle into your being.

The things you're worried may not be real, and even if they are real enough, they may not be the problem you think they are, or a problem at all. Having said that Buddhists do theoretically believe in reincarnation and maybe that comes into this quote. But Sam's says it's not strictly about death not being final or not a probem, but about the relationship between experiencer and experienced, and how we can get past a sense that life is an intolerable nightmare, and just deal with it as it is. Also, you're literally truly just endlessly falling through space, but also in a metaphorical sense. And that's actually pretty cool when you think about it. Also terrifying. Definitely that, as well.

*Stack Exchange can't find the source. Wikiquote has no parachute for Chogyam Trungpa, who mentioned parachutes once, which may have inspired Ram Dass, a Joe favourite: "You only suffer if you are attached. If you think you’re young and you start to grow old, you suffer because you’re busy thinking you’re young. If you’re not standing anywhere, where is the suffering? No pain. So, you finally realize it’s as if you jump out of an airplane and there’s no parachute, but there’s no Earth. You could just keep doing it. It’s all skydiving from there on in. So, for a person who realizes that, suffering — although you don’t go after it because you’re not a masochist — isn’t pushed because you realize it’s teaching you something."

Image: Edward Coley Burnes-Jones: Sisyphus

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Christmas in the bin? What can be redeemed in it? / Note to self: 'let it stream' / That's Facts - A dark brooding romantic fixer upper

Christmas - Quite a few people are not into Christmas at all so here is a A Christmas Survival Guide

Why do people hate christmas? Hear from the internet masses here - it's a lot of the same reasons that Joe does. Too much booze, too much pretend, enforced intimacy, stress, loss, sadness and expense. Not having the extended family, and when there was the extended family, it wasn't great. Or do kids who have Christmas, just kind of enjoy it and don't notice or ignore what's going on with the adults?

On Christmas Day Joe will be on the road northwards, listening to non-Christmas tunes. It's all about that Boxing Day Test. When that starts - the pressure is off, finally. Picture him driving to the sounds of Neil Young - Unknown Legend

Note to Self - Let it Stream

Let things be as they are. You can't push away the negative thought. Don't hold onto the positive thought. Don't even try to push away the annoyance at having to just accept the existence of thoughts that you don't like.

Change the channel - a cognitive behavioural therapy method for dealing with intrusive thoughts.

Is cognitive behavioural therapy NOT the best thing ever? It won't get to the REAL stuff. Well that's what Lacanians and Freudians say. There's lots of other good modes of counselling and psychotherapy.

But change the channel works. Being annoyed or tortured by intrusive thoughts? Change the channel by putting another thought there. Read a sign or a license plate. Disrupt the other thought. Probably more productive than just trying to push it away.

That's Facts - A dark brooding romantic fixer upper

Does Joe sometimes choose to lead on a date with a troubled self over a fun self? Both selves are real, so which to present? Present nothing, just let things be as they are? Does the fixer upper always fail? Is there anything wrong with two people wanting to entertain the same illusion, that we will always have fun, or that we can save each other?

Does anyone really want a fixer upper for a partner? Why? To help entertain their own delusion that they are magical, which is much easier when the other person sees the magic in you, and one way to do that is to invite someone looking for magic solutions in their life.

I hope we all get through the holiday period best as we can. Truly, blessings and best wishes to all, and if there is a miracle for you, that's great. It can be a season for endings and undoings and also new beginnings. Maybe you can invent a great new tradition with a collection of dear people, whether they you biological kin or not. Sam: Merry Christmass/Merry 'this time of year' to one and all, may the goddess bless you

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Revolution? / Do not seek the truth, only cease to cherish opinions / Paparazzi

We mention Sengcan a lot: sage, poet and 3rd Patriarch of Chan Buddhism. Famous for (maybe) writing Xinxin Ming sutra (scripture/poem). Read it here. It begins like this:

The Great Way is not difficult / for those who have no preferences

When love and hate are both absent / everything becomes clear and undisguised

Make the smallest distinction, however / and heaven and earth are set infinitely apart

If you wish to see the truth / then hold no opinions for or against anything

To set up what you like against what you dislike / is the disease of the mind.

When the deep meaning of things is not understood / the mind’s essential peace is disturbed to no avail

The Way is perfect like vast space / where nothing is lacking and nothing is in excess

Indeed, it is due to our choosing to accept or reject / that we do not see the true nature of things.

Be serene in the oneness of things / and such erroneous views will disappear by themselves

Revolutions. Do Marxists want things to get worse? What do Marxists mean when they talk about 'exposing the contradictions inherent in capitalism"? Are Victorian Socialists just nice young middle-class people who want to make things better? Often. Should a family doctor struggle to buy a home? No. But we are seeing a lot of that. This + many other absurdities in this country, might create the conditions for a revolution. I recommend the Revolutions podcast, wrapping up now. Mike summarises hundreds of episodes in the Appendix series. I've made a playlist for easier listening

Will Australia actually have a revolution? Very unlikely, but becoming less unlikely? A major dummy spit by doctors, teachers, nurses, and every kind of wage worker, volunteer and carer, is called for. That's my opinion anyway.

Also the Herald-Sun could not get Dan Andrews kicked out, because he makes people build things, and cos chippies, brikkies, sparkies, builders, laborers, and taxi drivers have phones to scroll on now. Why would they read about how Dan Andrews pissed in their cornflakes, had a poo with the door open, and took the last tim tam, last ciggy and last beer from the fridge, when they have thirst traps to look at, and mates to hang shit on in chat all day?

"Do not seek the truth, only cease to cherish opinions" - Sengcan. Creating false distinctions in the mind causes problems. But also, if you forget about truth, and stop having so many opinions, you can have some space inside, and truth can actually come in. Freddy Nietzsche drops in: 'Truth' and the search for truth are no trivial matter; and if a person goes about searching in too human a fashion, I'll bet he won't find anything!'
Actually the paparazzi provide a valuable public service, by helping to reveal the contradictions inherent in capitalism?

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Boundaries / The idea of your mother is not your mother / That's facts - the magical vagina and the song of the magical penis

Boundaries, romantic fiascos, anxious attachment. Why do I wonder if I'm real while waiting for a reply? Texting too much. Getting in touch with exes when there's nothing to discuss. School of Life: Can Exes Be Friends? Thinking you're the good guy, but the motives are all wrong. Every Time the Sun Comes Up (I'm in trouble): Sharon Van Etten

Stopping as much dishonesty with yourself and others as you can, is one of the keys to recovering from addiction and regaining control of yourself and life. Yes, Woolworths are crooks but you can't live by their ethics. They do own a lot of pokies and that is theft also. But quitting petty theft and fare evasion, very good for you. GetUp! Woolworths campaign

The idea of your mother is not your mother. Can't find the source of this quote, but I read some psychology articles. Some people have mean mothers which is very bad for you. Some have difficult mothers, a challenge into adulthood. The dismissive mother can be hard to get over. Mummy Issues article is a good summary. Role playing and therapy can help couples get past mum issues and work as a team rather than isolated individuals

Gregory Batesom wikipedia The map is not the territory, and the name is not the thing named / Finally, in the dim region where art, magic, and religion meet and overlap, human beings have evolved the “metaphor that is meant,” the flag which men will die to save, and the sacrament that is felt to be more than “an outward and visible sign, given unto us.” Here we can recognize an attempt to deny the difference between map and territory, and to get back to the absolute innocence of communication by means of pure mood-signs." Bateson wikiquote

Joe's word portraits of extras. Can you meditate with aliens, and turn your ASD and ADD into powers? Can we handle the full reality of all others? Bodhisattva can

Jung on Love/Relationships a spiritual path for the 21st century and Individuation in Marriage Through Wounding and Healing / Marriage, life’s greatest intimacy, paradoxically delivers both wounding and healing and challenges to the full our capacities for self-acceptance and self-giving. In this lecture, Dr. Stein examines the mysteries and dynamics of married life."

Tool - Sober

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Why is Sam liking the internet more and more? / Leave the front door open, leave the back door open / Freedom is Obedience to Self-Formulated Rules

We get into why the internet can be a good presence, and a bit about Joe's experience with click-bait being a big problem even in 'quality' press

Sam is happy he can find: good visual artists and audio/video producers, cool stuff to make things with, and pats on the head for making things. Joe has a harder time with the internet - finds it too top down + it shows him scary stuff + dating apps can be a hamster wheel of deadening gamification.

Also, remember that funny era when people wrote long emails about their overseas travels? I remember. And I did it to people. My dad did too, but his emails were good.

It's headed straight for us! Oh wait, it's not. Gotcha!

ABC coverage of the same story

The Guardian comes in for another shellacking from both of us. While on opposite ideological sides to Alex Jones, have The Guardian occasionally employed similar tactics to the infamous Info Wars host: "things are really bad, planet endingly bad, and only this brave outlet can save you, so give us your support." - see Knowledge Fight

Try newsletters - Future Crunch and current events pods - Bullshit Filter - examines / triangulates reporting on one issue, adds historical perspective, gives a range of interpretations

Personalities: Roger Pielke Jr - wikipedia - political scientist analysing climate policy and modelling

Michael Shellenberger - wikipedia - used to work in PR. just a nuclear crank? maybe. also blames progressives for drug addiction and rising incarceration.

Briahna Joy Gray - wikipedia - rising star of political media. Very strong insta - her awesome Bad Faith youtube channel here her Bad Faith podcast insta here

Ash Sarkar - who famously said to Piers Morgan "I'm Literally a Communist You Idiot" - on her Novara Media youtube channel, doesn't put heaps on her insta

Shunryu Suzuki full quote "Leave your front door and your back door open. Allow your thoughts to come and go. Just don’t serve them tea.” Quora article about the quote
Freedom is obedience to self-formulated rules Aristotle

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Growing up Hare Krishna / Note to self: "I love you. Keep going" / the beach

Being in the Moomba Parade as a Hare kid, in a fierce competition with the Gas and Fuel Corporation for Moomba float prizes / Krishnas coverage of Moomba Back to Godhead magazine July 1985

(Does Moomba mean 'up your bum'? Was it revenge from Bill Onus for Moomba organisers deliberately upstaging Labor Day in a plot against workers?)

Hare Krishna Moomba on youtube, closer to 1990

George Harrison explains why chanting Hare Krishna does something

Going to India. The shock of recognition. Discovering that one religion borrowed heavily from another one. If a Sikh person offers you a cookie from in a passing parade of dancing and singing... take the cookie, and hopefully it might change you. Pilgrimage could be to India, or New York.

Whatever happened to the Hare Krishnas? Life in Hare Krishna boarding school

"I love you, keep going" - not an inspiration from instagram, but a guy in New York with a very uncomfortable skin condition. Try it yourself!
The beach - why is it such a great place to think and let go of your worries? Because it's liminal. The littoral is the line between land and sea. It's always moving. This is a reminder that everything is temporary, and that either relaxes you or can freak you out. Don't even worry it's all good, that house on the cliff, you can't afford it, and it will fall in the sea one day. The almighty ocean says 'you are small' and that's good

But also the beach can mean body image worries. And that's why lots of us are not 'beach people' and neither is Joe, not in that way. But he sure loves a walk on the beach.

Coastline paradox

Fractal dimension of coastline of Australia, in the journal Nature

Earth scale fractals

Earths most beautiful fractals

Fractals and Britain's coast

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Heaven and Hell is here and now? 1. Leaving the Ambassador Hotel 2. On clinging 3. Heaven on Earth, or somewhere else?

Joe at 19 in Bangkok, Thailand. A story he needs to tell, as life has not been the same since, but maybe it can be okay. Taxi drivers. Getting picked up by the tourist police. A strait jacket. A hospital, and a giant syringe. A gripping tale.

Hey, maybe humanity is not so bad after all. Humankind: A Hopeful History by Rutger Bregman, also wrote Utopia for Realists

Clinging: "If we do not cling, everything that arises is naturally freed"

Level 1 of Not Clinging? Getting into arguments on the internet, but being okay with how it turns out. Not needing other people to believe what you believe.

Does Sam get pwned in the comments on Isaac's video. You decide. It doesn't matter, but I think I did okay. https://www.instagram.com/reel/Ciuq7fgg1Ra/

Bhagavad Gita can teach us a lot about letting go, so can Epictetus and Seneca. Buddhism and the Gita agree Attachment and acquisition leads to suffering

Relaxing Bhagavad Gita audio summary on youtube

Hank Williams, as sung by Steve Earle. I'll Never Get Out of This World Alive

Victor Frankl "If there is a meaning in life at all, then there must be a meaning in suffering. Suffering is an ineradicable part of life, even as fate and death."

Samsara - the forest fire of existence. Suffering

Dharma - the way, knowledge of the path, duty, what is and what must be done and must be accepted. Can also mean religion

Traditionalism "The War for Eternity" (and to subjugate women, the non-'white' and the non-straight) Ben Teitelbaum on Steve Bannon, Alexander Dugin etc

Tulpas - beings made out of our own thoughts - an idea from Buddhism but via Theosophy, which is a whole 'nother story

Buddhism is great. Here's a critique of some aspects of Buddhism

Paul Axton - peace loving Christian dude who knows his stuff and loves Lacan and Zizek. Peaceable Kingdom - Heaven on Earth?

All traditions can be problematic, and all can offer solutions. Peace to all

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Socialising 2. 'Am I expanding or contracting?' 3. Highly sensitive persons -HSP

Where did all the house parties go? Did we grow up? Did we get sick of it? What about dinner parties?

Is Joe not getting invited to dinner parties? Do they actually happen? Are people afraid their space or their entertaining won't be good enough? Are we all just hellishly busy with whatever?

Sam's Attention Deficit Disorder gets in the way of organising get togethers, that's for sure.

But what do we actually want from socialising and partying? Is dancing the best part? Should we just cut straight to that? No Lights No Lycra, no alcohol, no small talk needed, just dancing in the morning in the dark. It's good.

Why do I find something that's good for me, and love it, and plan on doing it again, only to not do it again? Why do I talk myself out of good things?

Why wait? Don't die wondering. Show up for the good things. The best things in life are on the other side of blocks.

I'm just getting FOMO about things that don't exist.

We procrastinate things we have to do. But way sadder than that is procrastinating things you actually want to do.

"1) Living in the same place as the people you love matters. I probably have 10X the time left with the people who live in my city as I do with the people who live somewhere else.

2) Priorities matter. Your remaining face time with any person depends largely on where that person falls on your list of life priorities. Make sure this list is set by you—not by unconscious inertia.

3) Quality time matters. If you’re in your last 10% of time with someone you love, keep that fact in the front of your mind when you’re with them and treat that time as what it actually is: precious."

Note to self - contract or expanding

Not expanding the ego, but expanding your consciousness until it blends with everything and you're not in the way of yourself anymore.

Loch Kelly mindfulness

Is this actually a problem, or do I just think it's a problem?

Highly sensitive persons - more on HSP from Psychology Today

Sensitivity can come from childhood experiences, or a genuine threat to our belonging, status, certainty and so on. Sometimes we need to get over ourselves. I couldn't tell the difference between ribbing and hostility. But a well-aimed joke at our expense can also show that we belong in a group. So making fun of ourselves and others is very helpful. And so is biting the dust in life, often enough to learn that we can recover.

Speaking of consciousness expansion, once upon a time I watched Ridley Scott's Aliens and suddenly had a mind-blowing experience of seeing the beauty and wonder of the universe contained in another person, only to realise it was the same universe in all of us, and we are all one! Then back to the movie. No drugs involved.

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If you win, you're allowed to cry / Looking outside yourself for what you already have / Being pompous

Sport can be an antidote to the messy and unresolved nature of life.

There may not be a higher meaning to sport, but does there have to be.

We need playfulness, and doing things together. Everything can be ridiculous when you look at it the right way, and test cricket really pushes the envelope in that way. Maybe if you can sit through a whole test series without getting distracted constantly, you might be enlightened.

ennui [ɒnˈwiː] NOUN a feeling of listlessness and dissatisfaction arising from a lack of occupation or excitement:

As long as the thing you are looking for is outside of yourself, it will never be enough.

We need to be there for others. Some have it harder than others, but we have a lot of what we need inside. If we're up late scrollin, or drinkin, or datin, maybe you won't find it. It's already there, if we can stop looking.

I can't get no, satisfaction.

Education happens to us all. Some get some fancy ed, and maybe think they're better. But it's not so. We all suffer on the way through, and we all have something to learn, and to teach. Each one, teach one. We'll all get through.

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Do normal stuff or get enlightened? / Avoid problems you don't have / Away from climate anxiety

Listener mail - Eben crushes it with a killer question that really revs us up. Do the 10,000 things, or seek enlightenment? Neither. Both. Thank you so much Eben. Don't let us confuse you about enlightenment, you've got this. Keep doing what you're doing. We are here for this practical, get-on-with-it Mid-West vibe.

Guided meditation by Australian Buddhist nuns.

Tao te Ching - get into it, it's a great read, lots of good advice, practical, relaxing, and sometimes funny as well. A typical youtube version of Tao te Ching

Henry Shukman - "Take them as you will... pointers to help us in our lives, and guide us towards greater kindness and less harm, more love, and lives that are more open to witnessing this world, and calling out it's injustices, to seeing them. And to be able to do that without reactivity. Offering calm to the world, in it's turmoil."

Chop wood, carry water. Wash dishes, fold laundry

“Before Enlightenment…You chop wood and carry water, but secretly wish to get out of it all. You bear with these activities through habit and out of hopelessness, but you really wish you could do something else. In a way, you are a victim, a slave — the wood chops you and the water carries you, and there is no way to escape…After Enlightenment, you are in harmony with the universe…so you see that there is nothing more important than chopping wood and carrying water. All activities are equalized, there is no preference, no discrimination. Because there is no ‘you’, no ego, no personality, no being, no separate individuality — there is no conflict. No need to escape…because you have mastered your mind, you are not chopped by the wood and carried by the water anymore. You can flip your perspective at will. It is your choice to chop wood and carry water, and you live it in complete suchness and spontaneity.”

2. Introducing a regular segment: "Note to Self." Today's note: Is that rock heavy? Ajahn Chah says "Only if you pick it up." jackkornfield.com/bio/

3. Climate anxiety- don't beat yourself up to no good purpose? Stop telling your kids they'll die from climate change

Our World in Data

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Fatherhood, parenting / capitalism / identity

Camille Paglia, Sexual Personae en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Camille_Paglia / Paternity may be a legal fiction. Who is the father of any son that any son should love him or he any son? James Joyce

Feeling like you have to do heaps with yr kids. They wanna chill. So do you. Connect with yr kids through frustration. Deal with dumb stuff by getting on the same page and conspiring in fun

Capitalism: what even am it? Magic? Water? www.sloww.co/this-is-water-david-foster-wallace/ Do we live in capitalism, or social democracy with regulated markets? Neo-liberalism?

Capitalism lifted millions from poverty? Or state investment in infrastructure, development and services? Regulation or free market? Both

Are u out of Marxism if you buy a cheap house and it goes up? R u hypocritical if you talk about overthrowing capitalism but also cash in? Did they get rich from capitalism or government intervention: wealth transfer via Peter Costello?

Shut up about capitalism/socialism? Centrism or leftism? Look at data, history, work with others to get things we need. Back away from hating/loving capitalism/socialism and get in the messy middle, away from hope and fear, from the exalted self and the lowly self.

Is $ real? Just shut up and make $ or do something useful? Make art or money, stop whinging?

Not the end of the world. End of capitalism? Francis Fukuyama, The End of History and the Last Man (1992) en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_Fukuyama Liberalism 4eva? Good one, Francis. Maybe he gets the last laugh one day

Getting excited by Bernie Sanders. But we already have medicare for all in Australia yay! Why so obsessed with America? We need USA in one piece

Frederic Jameson: Postmodernism or the Cultural Logic of Late Capitalism (1985) describes the culture we've been living in. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_capitalism is actually a pretty old idea

You first see a food delivery worker. Do you think 'that's capitalism' or 'the last days of the Roman Empire'? Amazon = own system: not free market or capitalism. Techno-feudalism. Yanis Varoufakis explains. www.yanisvaroufakis.eu/2021/11/06/star-trek-vs-the-matrix-chatting-with-briahna-joy-gray-about-my-another-now-on-bad-faith/

Identity: kids teach you how identity is made. Watch carefully. Gender made by childhood consumption. Is Identity choice, or thrust upon us? Does it limit the freedom of all? Identity is oppression?

Krishna: Abandon all varieties of religion and surrender unto Me. I shall deliver you from all sinful reaction. Do not fear www.asitis.com/18/66.html Neither Jew nor Greek, slave nor free, man nor woman, for you are all one in Christ Jesus - Galatians 3:28

Paul Watson forgingploughshares.org Christianity that frees us from violence and identity? Escape identity through God? But we can't all Jesus. Meditation? Joe's prayer: I ask only to be free of self-pity and selfishness and do my small part. Joe drops the W word - wokeism. Douglas Murray, beware identity politics cos whitey can do it too, has been for years. instagram.com/thenewevangelicals

Slavoi Zizek: I'm not saying anything big or revolutionary, we need a little bit more radical politics, but like, social democracy. I’m very much against all this Nietzschean “against good and evil” ideas. I’m for kind of a common morality. There are no big provocations here daily.jstor.org/getting-a-grip-on-slavoj-zizek-with-slavoj-zizek/

Examine whiteness? Sure. It's more about working together than being pure. Hate wins if we concentrate on identity? Time to get workin class? We're all working class. Greens are watermelons, red inside? twitter.com/MChandlerMather

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Work + mental health 2. Judging people 3. Knowing it all 4. Letters from listeners! Four huge ones, but don't worry, we almost dent the surface.

WorkGood to have a role. Structure is connection. People on Joe's psych ward, dosed with news, nothing to do. Some have too much. Work with fair rewards, dignity, autonomy, meaning, and time away!

Judging people

Joe says Sam doesn't judge that much. Joe judged two Gertrude St tiny dog yuppies, then a lady with a lot of work done, but saw that it's hard for her too. We love you, Toorak lady. It's not easy

It doesn't matter who you are or how much you have, everyone has a hard road (Dylan's grandma)

Maybe we judge when threatened or insecure. Maybe Sam is a lucky bastard doesn't have to deal with difficult people.

Ram Dass - we look at trees without judgement, but judge people. People are like trees. Some get more water, light, nutrients, shelter than others. Life bends us all.

*Men are born soft and supple

dead, they are stiff and hard

Plants are born tender and pliant

dead, they are brittle and dry*

*Thus whoever is stiff and inflexible

is a disciple of death

Whoever is soft and yielding

is a disciple of life*

*The hard and stiff will be broken

The soft and supple will prevail*

Tao te Ching 76

Trying to know everything

Sam Harris: reach exceeds his grasp. Joe says good meditation app. Free for low-income, grab that

Sam Ellis: showing off is fun. Bigging yourself up is hard work. It destroys your peace. The world needs knowing, so we can help it. So many clever people. Let's learn from them

Why seek knowledge, if not to act? Joe's Jabiluka/refugee arrests are behind him for now

The more I see, the more I know, the more I know, the less I understand - Paul Weller - Changingman

Slavoi Zizek - Don't act, think

Letters 1. No hope or fear, how do we act? Hope and fear agitate us. Aim for peace

*Success is as dangerous as failure

Hope is as hollow as fear*

*Both praise and shame

invite anxiety and fear

Serving one’s ego

only leads to a fiasco*

Tao te Ching 13

Tao in You - help with fear and anxiety

Desires of the belly: easy. Desires of the mind: impossible.

We act out of ignorance, passion or goodness

2. Men, feelings, talk. Footy helps. Can we chat without gender?

Zen + the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance

If there's something inside that you wanna say

You can say it out loud, it'll be okay

I will be your light Dry the Rain - Beta Band Spotify

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We nail the sound this time, feels good. Sam tells some wild tales from Hare Krishna boarding school, we discuss relationships in our 40s compared to our 20s and also ring a bell a few times.

Sam finally tells (part of) the boarding school story, which does involve a bit of corporal punishment and vague military or martial vibes. Some Hari Krishnas were feeling a bit judged and vulnerable in those days, and perhaps that explains it.

Reclaiming labels people mock you with. And snitches get stitches.

We structure up: bells announce the conclusion of a topic.

When you have ADHD you need structure. You have to create it for yourself.

Structure also allows for better connection, better relationships, better work and play.

Unlike the relationships we had in our twenties, not always very structured. Two entertaining people. Two agents of chaos. One drawn to intensity. One drawn to stability, with no idea how to provide it for someone else or take personal responsibility.

Struggling with commitment. Playing at being adults in a forever relationship, when you're nowhere near being able to accomplish that.

Idealism and realism. Hope and fear. Buddhists say "no hope, no fear", and therapy does that I reckon. So does AA. Alcoholics very often have 'high ego and low self-esteem.' AA is very good at crushing down the ego. Right-sizing the ego. But AA doesn't always raise the self-esteem at the same time.

Ordinary mind, ordinary self. Treat everything as important, but hold these things lightly at the same time. Fantasies of the future and past are just that. Be in the present. See things and other people clearly, clear mind, clear heart.

Making progress and getting better at being on time. Good practice. Being a hard to reach friend.

Everything is important. Everything is sacred. Holy holy holy as Alan Ginsberg said.

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Musical theme by maestro Ehsan Gelsi recorded live at the Melbourne Town Hall

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0:25 Being an article head (news junkie)

15.00 - Wanting to feel alive and awake. Risk taking behaviour. Sketchy people. Guns

18.00 - Ordinary mind. Do the dishes. Thanks to Sean for the episode image

28:51 - Parents, being a scared kid, loss, addiction, therapy, abandonment. It'll be okay in the end though.

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Alain de Botton - The News - A Users Manual
The News: Worst Show on the Internet. Let's agree. Emotional reactions. Pretending to be above the News/make useful comments
Looking for a hit of fear: The Age, The ABC, New York Times, Washington Goddamn Post + coffee
The Economist: magazine okay, online not so much. Speculations about escalation, nuclear war, the apocalypse. It gives Joe nerves
Putin is the Devil/Messiah/just a naughty boy/a rational actor. Depends who you ask (don't ask Alex Jones).
Read wikipedia instead. I use the app
News/adrenaline junkies just wanna know reality. Doesn't matter. Real reality is waiting. Take a walk. Bill Hicks tells you how it is re: the News
Many smart people don't read the news. And they could tell there wouldn't be a nuclear war.
Excitement and possibility = flip side of anxiety and fear. To feel a threat is to feel alive= = riding a bike through traffic on high alert can feel quite life affirming
It's ok to want to feel alive. If you're not nervous, you're probably not emotionally engaged
Permission to play cricket. Go the Royal Park Reds, Australia's only socialist cricket team?
Chores ain't necessarily bores - Alan Watts says you only ever do one dish, so stop hating it, put on nineties hip hop, mate, and enjoy reality, there's kind of nowhere else to go. Doing chores mindfully helps feel okay with life, and feel sane. Clean your environment, clean the self
Chaitanya, gender bending Hindu mystic from 500 yrs ago - let's abolish caste, class, religion, ethnicity, gender etc
The apocalypse is not for 5000 years (no, soz 426,877 years left in Kali Yuga).
"Two old men with nuclear buttons? Been there done that" - Vanillatary
Moral outrage. Joining Twitter mobs back when they were cool. Sorry about that
We're in a golden age inside a dark age. Get that into you
You don't need a rats tail to be a Hari these days
Religion <-> conspiracy theories
Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu (Gauranga) - Vishnu (Krishna)'s avatar, incarnated as their own female + male energy, + their own servant, at the same time
Become a Hare Krishna, or Become Nobody like Ram Dass
Hare Krishnas, boarding school, parents, feeling abandoned
Double Asteroid Redirection Test
The Precipice, Toby Ord

Musical theme by boy genius Ehsan Gelsi

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We should probably shut up, but everyone needs to express themselves

doing stuff because you want people to think you're attractive
egotism, false self-esteem, being childish but still feeling superior to Donald Trump
Donald's brother Fred Jr (he just wanted a regular life), difficult fathers, alcoholism, losing parents, Joe's Dad
old blokes out the front of the TAB (gambling joint in Aus/NZ)
being a loose unit, attention deficit disorder, amphetamines, addictions, video games
getting kicked out of university (college)
psychotherapy, good therapists as characters on the show, and possibly the most important person in your life, Alain de Botton, epiphanies, illusion of free will?

I say 'truth to tell' a lot. Therapist could say: "let's think more about that."

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Musical theme by maestro Ehsan Gelsi. Ephemera, live at the Melbourne Town Hall, with synths and Ten Thousand Pipe Acoustic Organ and Ben Crook on drums. Encroyable! One of my happiest moments of recent years. Do yourself a flavour and listen, it's a fun, beautiful, tasty, and hopeful piece of instrumental music for our times.

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We take a test drive and chat about Buddhism, Taoism, Hare Krishna, dating, poke bowls, Byron Bay, tanned people, music (Paul Kelly, Richard Clapton, Wilco), being on your phone, philosophy, feelings, mental health. Life really.

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Spotify links to music discussed:

Paul Kelly - Northern Rivers

Richard Clapton - Blue Bay Blues (original)

Wilco - Being There

Episode cover image: Photo by Photoholgic on Unsplash

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