Education · The Creative Process: Recent Episodes

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“We are in the middle of a labyrinth which suggests to us many fake corridors. What's the superpower of literature? Literature is like an antidote against propaganda. Propaganda explains the world easily in a two-dimensional way.  Literature gives you a more complex explanation. Literature tells personal stories.”

Today, we have a conversation about time, memory, and the bittersweet geography of human sorrow. Georgi Gospodinovis widely considered one of the most daring voices in contemporary European literature. His acclaimed novel, The Physics of Sorrow, won the prestigious Jan Michalski Prize in 2016, blending ancient myth and quantum physics to chronicle the delicate realities of post-socialist Eastern Europe. Joining him is Angela Rodel, a brilliant linguist, musician, and translator whose profound artistic empathy carries the flowing cadences of the Bulgarian language into vivid English. Together, this extraordinary creative duo made history by winning the 2023 International Booker Prizefor Time Shelter—the first book written in Bulgarian to ever receive the honor.

Time Shelter is a masterfully dark, funny, and prescient novel. It begins with an enigmatic psychiatrist opening a clinic that treats Alzheimer’s patients by meticulously recreating past decades to match their internal clocks. But the experiment quickly escapes the clinic walls, triggering a pan-European crisis where entire nations hold democratic referendums to choose which era of the past they will retreat into. It is a book that holds up a mirror to our own world, exploring what happens when a civilization faces a deficit of meaning and tries to weaponize nostalgia.

(0:00) The Trap of Nostalgia

(2:13) The Art of Translation

(5:44) The Pandemic of the Past

(11:30) Reading from ‘Time Shelter’

(14:28) Death and the Gardener

(19:34) The Translator's Calling

(26:05) Cultural Rhythms of the Bulgarian Language

(30:00) The Nonlinear Approach to Storytelling

(34:30) Separating Personal and Historical Pasts

(42:55) Storytelling vs Propaganda

(47:19) Bodies, Animals and the Loneliness of the Minotaur

(56:00) Reading ' Eight Minutes and 19 Seconds’

(1:00:28) What makes a good life? What has given your life meaning?

(1:04:18)   Childhood, Memory and Imagination

(1:10:38) Reflections on God and the Stories His Grandmother Told Him

(1:17:20) Education and the Empathic Imagination

(1:23:25) The Museum of Memory

(1:26:15) The Importance of Hugging and Empathy

(1:28:02) AI and the Future of Humanity

Episode Website

www.creativeprocess.info/pod

Instagram:@creativeprocesspodcast

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Today, we have a conversation about time, memory, and the bittersweet geography of human sorrow. Georgi Gospodinovis widely considered one of the most daring voices in contemporary European literature. His acclaimed novel, The Physics of Sorrow, won the prestigious Jan Michalski Prize in 2016, blending ancient myth and quantum physics to chronicle the delicate realities of post-socialist Eastern Europe. Joining him is Angela Rodel, a brilliant linguist, musician, and translator whose profound artistic empathy carries the flowing cadences of the Bulgarian language into vivid English. Together, this extraordinary creative duo made history by winning the 2023 International Booker Prizefor Time Shelter—the first book written in Bulgarian to ever receive the honor.

Time Shelter is a masterfully dark, funny, and prescient novel. It begins with an enigmatic psychiatrist opening a clinic that treats Alzheimer’s patients by meticulously recreating past decades to match their internal clocks. But the experiment quickly escapes the clinic walls, triggering a pan-European crisis where entire nations hold democratic referendums to choose which era of the past they will retreat into. It is a book that holds up a mirror to our own world, exploring what happens when a civilization faces a deficit of meaning and tries to weaponize nostalgia.

(0:00) The Trap of Nostalgia

(1:22) The Nonlinear Approach to Storytelling

(3:53) Translating the Atmosphere

(4:31) The Pandemic of the Past

(6:37) Death and the Gardener

(9:49) The Translators Calling

(11:00) Slowing Down Time

(13:14) Storytelling vs Propaganda

(15:54) Translating the Atmosphere

(18:19) What makes a good life? What has given your life meaning?

(20:56) Reflections on God and the Stories His Grandmother Told Him

(23:43) The Importance of Hugging, Empathy and Storytelling

Episode Website

www.creativeprocess.info/pod

Instagram:@creativeprocesspodcast

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“ I'm a believer in this technology. I believe that the cheaper it is, the more people will use it. So, even if we assume that models will get smaller for the same level of intelligence, the demand to actually have more compute is going to be enormous. And the reason why you want to have the, the compute close to you is not only in terms of performance. As a national security threat, I'm not saying this will happen, but it could happen that, China or US or whoever decides to stop exporting compute to the rest of the world. If that happens today, Europe has zero AI at the scale of data the data center.”

For over a decade, technology has promised to make life easier. Social media was meant to connect us, we were told smartphones would simplify our lives, and now artificial intelligence promises to lift even more daily burdens. Yet these advances also raise an important question: when do tools enhance human creativity, and when do they replace the very experiences that give life meaning? While AI holds immense promise, many people face challenges coping with current technological advancements that ‘redefine’ human communication, work, education, and democratic values. Today, we examine societal and cultural impacts of AI, identity, inclusion, governance, education, and community well-being. And are speaking with Nacho de Gregorio, author of TheWhiteBox, one of Medium's most-followed AI analysts, for a level-headed conversation about both the remarkable potential and the real limitations of AI.

(0:22) The hidden risks of the AI debt bubble

(0:55) Shadow borrowing and the data center boom

(3:12) The AI compute gap and national security

(5:40) Europe's missing infrastructure and tech sovereignty

(8:13) The Jevons paradox and the demand for compute

(10:25) Why open source AI is the best path forward

(12:31) The chess paradox and the future of human art

(12:53) Unmeasurable domains and future-proofing your career

(14:00) Tutoring and AI in education

(15:11) Navigating AI slop and the information ecosystem

(16:24) The Pleasure of Waiting vs. The Hustle

Episode Website

www.creativeprocess.info/pod

Instagram:@creativeprocesspodcast

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If you live in a city, you’ve probably had that moment in the middle of the night. You hear a scratching in the walls, or you catch the glowing eyes of a raccoon peering out from a dumpster, and for a second, the concrete world feels a lot less 'controlled' than we like to pretend. We’ve been taught to think of cities as 'biological deserts'—places where nature goes to die. But my guest today, Dan Werb, says that’s a myth we tell ourselves to feel safe. Dan is an award-winning epidemiologist and a musician, and in his new book, Our Wild Familiars, he explores the 'synanthropes'—the wild creatures that aren't our pets, but aren't quite strangers either. They are the coyotes, the bats, and even the octopuses that are learning to use our cities as laboratories for their own rapid evolution. He’s also the author of The Invisible Siege and City of Omens.

(0:02) The unexpected biodiversity of urban areas and wild familiars

(1:18) What is a Synanthrope?

(4:15) The Myth of the Biological Desert

(8:04) The Ancestral Bond between early humans, ravens, and foxes

(9:15) Crows and Grudges

(12:42) Stepping Stones in the Concrete

(14:20) The Epidemiological Triangle

(17:58) The Illusion of AI Connection

(19:56) The Museum of Memory

Episode Website

www.creativeprocess.info/pod

Instagram:@creativeprocesspodcast

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"So synanthropes are animals that have adapted to human-modified environments, and the Greek translation essentially is together with humans, so synanthrope. And they're a fascinating subset of wild animals that they're all around us, but we don't really notice them. And so in this new book, I was excited about writing something that had to do with the natural world. I was excited about writing something that touched on climate change. These are not just insects and earthworms and things like that. These are very large predators that have nevertheless found a way to survive among us. And that in and of itself I think is just an amazing story and what I explore in this book."

If you live in a city, you’ve probably had that moment in the middle of the night. You hear a scratching in the walls, or you catch the glowing eyes of a raccoon peering out from a dumpster, and for a second, the concrete world feels a lot less 'controlled' than we like to pretend. We’ve been taught to think of cities as 'biological deserts'—places where nature goes to die. But my guest today, Dan Werb, says that’s a myth we tell ourselves to feel safe. Dan is an award-winning epidemiologist and a musician, and in his new book, Our Wild Familiars, he explores the 'synanthropes'—the wild creatures that aren't our pets, but aren't quite strangers either. They are the coyotes, the bats, and even the octopuses that are learning to use our cities as laboratories for their own rapid evolution. He’s also the author of The Invisible Siege and City of Omens.

(0:02) The unexpected biodiversity of urban areas and wild familiars

(2:32) Defining synanthropes and the myth of the biological desert

(6:04) Why cities are becoming magnets for wildlife and natural biodiversity

(14:32) How our discarded garbage acts as a reliable nutrition source

(18:01) The raccoon city and highly adaptable urban mesopredators

(21:49) Redesigning cities as crucial sites for wildlife conservation and containerisation

(26:31) The impact of highways on mountain lion migration in Los Angeles

(31:03) The ancestral spiritual bond between early humans, ravens, and foxes

(38:24) Facial recognition, grudges, and the intense intelligence of urban crows

(42:40) Discovering giant Pacific octopuses living in discarded garbage near Seattle

(49:04) How translucent boardwalks helped save baby salmon afraid of the dark

(52:42) Building green corridors and ecological stepping stones in the concrete

(1:01:07) Cultural shifts in pods of orcas sinking boats off the Iberian coast

(1:05:23) Social epidemiology, vulnerable populations, and insights from City of Omens

(1:08:29) The epidemiological triangle and the environmental causes of novel viruses

(1:16:08) The rhythm shift required to observe wild animals in urban spaces

(1:25:26) Why we need more cosmological humility when studying animal biology

(1:31:06) The illusion of AI connection and why engaging with nature expands the mind

(1:34:46) Memories, Laughter, and Animal Connection

Episode Website

www.creativeprocess.info/pod

Instagram:@creativeprocesspodcast

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For over a decade, technology has promised to make life easier. Social media was meant to connect us, we were told smartphones would simplify our lives, and now artificial intelligence promises to lift even more daily burdens. Yet these advances also raise an important question: when do tools enhance human creativity, and when do they replace the very experiences that give life meaning? While AI holds immense promise, many people face challenges coping with current technological advancements that ‘redefine’ human communication, work, education, and democratic values. Today, we examine societal and cultural impacts of AI, identity, inclusion, governance, education, and community well-being. And are speaking with Nacho de Gregorio, author of TheWhiteBox, one of Medium's most-followed AI analysts, for a level-headed conversation about both the remarkable potential and the real limitations of AI.

(0:00) The AI compute gap and national security

(1:56) The hidden risks of the AI debt bubble

(4:40) Separating AI hype from job displacements

(12:38) Shadow borrowing and the data center boom

(17:19) Europe's missing infrastructure and tech sovereignty

(21:52) The Jevons paradox and the demand for compute

(26:37) Regulatory capture and doomerism

(31:12) Why open source AI is the best path forward

(42:19) The chess paradox and the future of human art

(46:35) Unmeasurable domains and future-proofing your career

(53:45) Tutoring and AI in education

(1:01:48) Navigating the AI slop and information ecosystem

(1:16:00) Finding beauty in the natural world

(1:20:18) The pleasure of waiting vs. the hustle

(1:35:01) Setting healthy boundaries with technology

Episode Website

www.creativeprocess.info/pod

Instagram:@creativeprocesspodcast

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Why do we write? Is it to capture a memory before it vanishes or to build a bridge between the person we are and the stories we've been told? In this episode of The Creative Process, we explore the practice of writing as an awakening and tool for discovery with a group of celebrated poets, novelists, musicians and thinkers.

We hear from neuroscientist, dancer and author Julia Christensen on how literature inspires transformative aesthetic experiences. Award-winning poet and clinical psychologist Hala Alyan discusses navigating displacement through narrative, while bestselling author Andre Dubus III reflects on the honest labor of the writer and the willingness to fail.

Pulitzer Prize-winning poet Jericho Brown shares how the sounds of American vernacular guide his work and Fmr. US Poet Laureate Ada Limón discusses holding hope within frightening thoughts about the future of our planet. NYT Bestseller Aimee Nezhukumatathil speaks on tenderness towards the natural world and naturalist Sy Montgomery shares how animals have been her greatest teachers.

The conversation expands with poet Max Stossel on finding humanity in conflict, Tiokasin Ghosthorse on the ancient energy of the earth and Julian Lennon on art as a collective human endeavor. Finally, composer Erland Cooper takes us to the landscape of his youth, where the sound of the sea informed his creative voice.

To hear more from each guest, listen to their full interviews.

Episode Website

www.creativeprocess.info/pod

Instagram:@creativeprocesspodcast

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Today, we examine how we will adapt to a changing climate and learn to listen to the Earth.(0:00) Abrahm Lustgarten(Reporter, ProPublica) (3:00) Jon Gertner (Author, The Ice at the End of the World) (5:32) Bill Hare (CEO, Climate Analytics) (6:35) Rob Nixon (Prof. Environmental Humanities, Princeton) (8:12) Louis de Jaeger (Co-founder, Food Forest Institute) (10:06) Kathleen Rogers (Pres., EarthDay.org) (11:31) Rebecca Tickell (Filmmaker, Groundswell) (13:42) Ben Goldfarb (Author, Crossings) (14:56) Jane Madgwick (CEO, Plantlife International) (19:23) Jason deCaires Taylor (Sculptor, Underwater Museums) (21:02) William McDonough (Architect, Cradle to Cradle) (23:19) Euan Nisbet(Scientist, Royal Holloway) (26:06) Roland Geyer (Author, The Business of Less) (28:15) Ron Gonen (CEO, Closed Loop Partners) (29:34) Paul Shrivastava (Co-President, Club of Rome) (30:14) Carlo Ratti (Architect, Dir., MIT Senseable City Lab) (31:24) Osprey Orielle Lake (Founder, WECAN) (32:38) Liza Featherstone (Journalist) (33:41) Yolanda Kakabadse (Fmr. President, WWF)

For more, listen to their full interviews

Episode Site: https://www.creativeprocess.info/interviews-featured/anth-regen

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“Architecture should bring a true sensation of wellbeing. We were really lucky to experience that as children, and now as architects, we try to bring all that we learned into our practice.”

Salwa and Selma Mikou are the founders of Paris-based Mikou Architecture. Born in Fez, Morocco and educated in Paris, they have spent the last two decades reimagining the relationship between the built environment and the cultural landscape.

After honing their craft under two of the world’s most iconic architects, Jean Nouvel and Renzo Piano, they founded their own studio. For them, architecture is a living interaction with landscape and what they call the Atlas of Resonance, interpreting the hidden layers of a territory, geology, memory, and craft. It is a philosophy that rejects the generic, seeking instead to weave together technological innovation with local materials. Whether it is a mosque in the north of England or a hybrid innovation hub in a former royal manufactory, their work asks a fundamental question: How does space shape the way we think, learn and remember?

They were selected by Rem Koolhaas to represent Morocco at the Venice Biennale. Most recently, they were commissioned by Hermès to create a 17,000-square-meter facility that bridges industrial performance with poetic expression. At the heart of their practice is a belief that architecture is not just about building—it’s about shaping relationships: between people, between past and future, between technology and craft.

(0:04) The Intuitive Knowledge of Living Art

(4:24) The Medina and the Geometry of Childhood

(8:18) The Social Spaces of Rooftops

(13:46) The Intuitive Knowledge of Living Art

(15:31) Contextual Echoes & Traces of the Site

(19:18) The Twin Dynamic and Confrontation with 'l'autre'

(26:42) The Temples of Water

(33:24) The Mosque as Pure Spatiality

(38:01) The Crisis Period and Structural Systems

(48:24) Building Culture with Yves Saint Laurent & Pierre Bergé

(51:38) The Wast ed-dar (وسط الدار) and the Heart of a Building

(57:02) Preserving the Human Core of Expression

(1:04:29) Urban Acupuncture in the Modern City

(1:08:46) The Smells and Sounds of Home

(1:10:02) Balance, Nature, and Sisterhood

Episode Website

www.creativeprocess.info/pod

Instagram:@creativeprocesspodcast

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Step into the deep time of the forest floor, where a single fallen leaf contains the history of the world, and invisible fungal networks hum with ancient conversations. Biologist and acclaimed author David George Haskell reveals a staggering truth: we are completely dependent on the botanical world, and our belief in strict human individuality is a biological illusion.

Haskell has spent much of his life training himself to see the universal within the infinitesimally small. He's famously sat for a year in a single square meter of Tennessee's forest, a mandala experience that revealed the deep history of the world through a single fallen leaf. He's a two-time finalist for the Pulitzer Prize for his books The Forest Unseen and Sounds Wild and Broken, and he received the John Burroughs Medal for The Songs of Trees.

His work often focuses on what he calls the unwaged labor of the natural world, the complex biological communities that sustain our planet without a monetary ledger. And his latest book is How Flowers Made Our World. In it, he argues that we are essentially grass apes dependent on the ancient innovations of flowering plants for two-thirds of our daily calories.

(0:00) How Flowers Made Our World

(1:33) Networked Connection is the Foundation of Life

(2:00) Contemplating the Small

(4:07) Consciousness, Intelligence & Memory in the More-Than-Human-World

(4:18) We Are Grass Apes

(5:41) Memories of His Childhood in Paris & Wild Orchids

(6:34) The Networked Intelligence of Forests

(7:45) The Earth in Full Song

(8:46) The Practice of Listening

(10:11) Escaping the Screen: Real Connections in the Classroom

(11:35) The True Cost of AI

(12:11) Transforming Ourselves

(14:23) Silence Without Expectation

(15:32) A Sensory Legacy for the Future

Episode Website

www.creativeprocess.info/pod

Instagram:@creativeprocesspodcast

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What if the defining revolution of Earth's history wasn't led by animals or humans, but by flowers? Are we truly individuals, or are our bodies and minds just walking ecosystems?

Our guest today is David George Haskell, a biologist who has spent much of his life training himself to see the universal within the infinitesimally small. He's famously sat for a year in a single square meter of Tennessee's forest, a mandala experience that revealed the deep history of the world through a single fallen leaf. He's a two-time finalist for the Pulitzer Prize for his books The Forest Unseen and Sounds Wild and Broken, and he received the John Burroughs Medal for The Songs of Trees.

His work often focuses on what he calls the unwaged labor of the natural world, the complex biological communities that sustain our planet without a monetary ledger. And his latest book is How Flowers Made Our World. In it, he argues that we are essentially grass apes dependent on the ancient innovations of flowering plants for two-thirds of our daily calories.

(0:00) How Flowers Made Our World

The incredible ancient history of flowers on Earth

(4:56) Contemplating the Small

Expanding our world by restricting our gaze

(14:30) The Illusion of Individuality

Why atomism is false and interconnectedness is the foundation of life

(26:08) We Are Grass Apes

The evolutionary origins of humans and our dietary dependence on grass

(33:32) Memories of His Childhood in Paris & Wild Orchids

(38:55) The Networked Intelligence of Forests

How trees communicate and share resources beneath the soil

(44:00) The Earth in Full Song

Tracing the sonic history of our planet

(51:08) The Practice of Listening

Why tuning in to the natural world is crucial for our survival

(1:01:21) Silence Without Expectation

Sitting with nature without demanding progress or enlightenment

(1:11:01) Transforming Ourselves

Why personal change matters in the fight for the climate

(1:15:20) Escaping the Screen

Finding real human-to-human connection away from technology

(1:16:16) The True Cost of AI

The devastating impact of data centers on our fossil fuel consumption

(1:23:18) A Sensory Legacy for the Future

What we must preserve for the generations not yet born

Episode Website

www.creativeprocess.info/pod

Instagram:@creativeprocesspodcast

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Why does our economy treat environmental destruction as an inevitable side effect rather than a massive design flaw? How can shifting our focus from polarizing "talkers" to practical "builders" literally save the planet? We are repeatedly told that the climate crisis is too vast and volatile to solve, but what if the true obstacle is simply bad design?

Tom Chi is a physicist, designer, inventor, and investor whose work has shaped everything from Google Glass and rapid prototyping at Google X to some of the most ambitious climate technologies being built today. He’s now the founding partner of At One Ventures, where he invests in deep-tech companies focused on a bold goal: a world where humanity is a net positive to nature.

Tom’s new book, Climate Capital: Investing in the Tools for a Regenerative Future, reframes economics itself—not as a fixed law, but as a design discipline that can be reimagined to align with the physical realities of our planet. Drawing on science, systems thinking, and lessons from nature, the book offers a grounded, practical framework for moving beyond both climate doom and empty optimism—and toward real, regenerative solutions. Today’s conversation is about what Tom calls the 4Cs: Capital, Compassion, Climate, and Community—but also about agency, responsibility, and what becomes possible when we stop treating the future as something that happens to us and start designing it deliberately.

0:00) Build Integrity: Choosing Builders Over Talkers

Why prioritizing those who physically create solutions over those who merely debate them is essential for systemic change

(1:21) Overcoming Powerlessness Through Creativity, Critical Thinking, Community Compassion

Utilizing a specific framework of portable skills to move from climate anxiety into meaningful, iterative action

(2:22) Capital Misallocation: Taxing What We Want to See

A critique of current tax structures that burden labor while under-taxing capital and failing to serve societal needs

(3:47) The Volatility Gap: Why Average Temperatures Mislead

Understanding why increasing climate volatility—rather than just average temperature rise—is the true driver of human distress

(6:19) Economics As Design: Redesigning The Global Engine

Moving beyond "physics envy" in economics to treat the global market as a discipline that can be redesigned for better outcomes

(9:11) Depth Over Breadth: Reforming Education Through Experience

(13:30) Local Resilience: How Cities Can Lead The Transformation

Practical, block-by-block strategies for urban adaptation, from expanding tree canopies to improving household efficiency

(16:33) AI and Robotics in Agriculture

(19:12) Human-Centric AI: Flipping The Priority Of Automation

(20:18) Thinking In Pictures: A Language Beyond Words

Episode Website

www.creativeprocess.info/pod

Instagram:@creativeprocesspodcast

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“In the book I spend a bunch of time basically teaching skills and teaching frameworks of thinking. Not to indoctrinate, it's not a framework like an ideology where you need to believe exactly these things. This is a lot more about how does one use their minds effectively to solve problems that have been solved before. Of course, I work on things that have to do with investment and climate and the future of the economy and automation. The main things I'm trying to teach in the book are skills around creativity, critical thinking, community compassion and frameworks around how to go and use that on problems that should be relatively portable to a bunch of problems that are meaningful to you. The way that education needs to change is that people need to actively be working on things that truly matter to them so that over time they end up being able to go make that difference.”

Tom Chi is a physicist, designer, inventor, and investor whose work has shaped everything from Google Glass and rapid prototyping at Google X to some of the most ambitious climate technologies being built today. He’s now the founding partner of At One Ventures, where he invests in deep-tech companies focused on a bold goal: a world where humanity is a net positive to nature.

Tom’s new book, Climate Capital: Investing in the Tools for a Regenerative Future, reframes economics itself—not as a fixed law, but as a design discipline that can be reimagined to align with the physical realities of our planet. Drawing on science, systems thinking, and lessons from nature, the book offers a grounded, practical framework for moving beyond both climate doom and empty optimism—and toward real, regenerative solutions. Today’s conversation is about what Tom calls the 4Cs: Capital, Compassion, Climate, and Community—but also about agency, responsibility, and what becomes possible when we stop treating the future as something that happens to us and start designing it deliberately.

(0:00) Overcoming Powerlessness through Creativity, Critical Thinking, Community Compassion

Why broad hopelessness about the future is a purposeful tactic to maintain the status quo.

(7:16) How average temperature metrics fail to communicate the true danger of extreme climate volatility.

(11:54) Economics as Design

(17:11) Multi-disciplinary Learning Centered on Real-World Impact

(26:12) Local Resilience

(31:15) Tax & Capital Misallocation

(36:52) Build Integrity

(45:32) AI and Robotics in Agriculture

(51:08) The First Honeybee Vaccine

(56:11) The Entropy Curve of Pollution

(1:15:31) Human-Centric AI

Flipping the priority of automation to serve the collective good rather than enriching a select few

(1:20:59) Thinking in Pictures

How learning to communicate and problem-solve without language fueled a career in deep tech invention

Episode Website

www.creativeprocess.info/pod

Instagram:@creativeprocesspodcast

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“These oppressive structures are built to strip us of our humanity. One of the ways they do that is by filling us with anger and hatred. If we allow ourselves to stay there, we're doing the job of the oppressor for them by slowly killing ourselves. I wanted to make a movie that would remind people that we can't allow them to win by giving up our humanity. We have to hold onto our humanity and try in these impossible circumstances.”

My guest today is Cherien Dabis. She’s a filmmaker and actress who has spent much of her career trying to fill the silences in the American narrative. In 2022, she became the first Palestinian to receive an Emmy nomination. She has worked on everything from The L Word to Ozark, Only Murders in the Building to the hit Netflix series Mo, always with an eye toward breaking the one-dimensional mold that has historically defined Arab representation in the West. But her latest project is perhaps her most ambitious yet. It’s a film called All That’s Left of You. It follows one Palestinian family across three generations, beginning in 1948 and ending in 2022. It is a story of exile and memory, and it’s Jordan’s official submission for this year’s Academy Awards.

(0:00) The Inheritance of Trauma

Cherien Dabis discusses showing the multifaceted humanity of Palestinians beyond just pain and suffering

(3:41) Inherited Trauma: Identity And History The film explores how collective trauma is passed down across generations and shapes individual identities

(5:52) The Bakri Dynasty: Collaborative Lineage Working with the legendary Bakri Family brought deep, authentic relational dynamics to the screen

(9:25) Filming The Nakba: Art Imitating Crisis The crew faced severe challenges and had to evacuate Palestine during the October 2023 escalation

(16:10) Representation Gap: Dehumanization In Media Growing up in Ohio, Cherien Dabis witnessed the dangerous misrepresentation of Arabs in Western media

(21:24) The Moment Of Activation: Racism In Ohio The stark racism experienced during the first Gulf War ignited her passion to become a filmmaker

(33:40) Psychological Violence: Impact Of Humiliation The film depicts how psychological harassment under occupation leaves devastating, long-term impacts on families

(38:23) Broken Distribution: Industry Gatekeepers Despite international success, systemic fear and gatekeeping in the US distribution market remain significant obstacles

(45:28) Previous Films, Television And Craft Directing television shows like Only Murders in the Building expanded her creative capacity and adaptability

(51:45) Truth Seekers: The Next Generation
Cherien Dabis shares her profound hope for young people who refuse to accept the broken systems of the past

Episode Website

www.creativeprocess.info/pod

Instagram:@creativeprocesspodcast

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"To be in the process of making things, to be in the process of talking to people about what things mean. The creative process is actually, I think, the most meaningful part of life, but it's very hard to measure. When we get shoved towards a world that demands easy measurables, it's very hard to optimize away from the creative process and optimize towards things that are more static."

On this episode of The Creative Process, philosopher C. Thi Nguyen joins us to discuss his new book, The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else's Game. He unpacks the profound concept of "value capture"—the moment we stop caring about the rich, subtle experiences of life and start obsessing over simplified, external metrics like grades, likes, and screen time.

Beyond the trap of quantification, C. Thi Nguyen explores the liberating power of games and art. We discuss how true play requires us to step lightly between different rule sets, the difference between art and craft, and how reclaiming our creative process might just be the ultimate meaning of life.

(0:00) THE TRAP OF VALUE CAPTURE How external metrics and scoring systems hijack our personal values and creativity

(7:09) THE LOGIC OF QUANTIFICATION Why simple numbers travel well but strip away vital human context, from screen time to grades

(11:58) THE MAGIC CIRCLE OF PLAY Understanding the difference between a gamified life and the true, disattached beauty of struggle

(14:57) ART, CRAFT, AND METRICS Why taking the hard way leads to genuine creative expression, and how to spot value-laden systems

(19:34) THE POLITICS OF MEASUREMENT Questioning the assumption that complex human traits, like IQ or consciousness, can be quantified on a single scale

(21:31) THE SPIRIT OF PLAY Using constraints to boost collaborative storytelling and learning to step lightly between different rule worlds

Episode Website

www.creativeprocess.info/pod

Instagram:@creativeprocesspodcast

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We live in a world obsessed with tracking. From our sleep scores to our social media engagement, invisible systems constantly quantify our worth. But when we replace our deepest values with these thin, easily measurable numbers, we lose a part of our humanity. It is time to step outside the magic circle of optimization and reclaim the unstructured joy of being alive.

C. Thi Nguyen is a philosopher whose work gets to the heart of the invisible structures that define modern life. He first established himself as a food writer, exploring the sensory world, before turning his intellectual gaze toward the philosophy of games and agency. He’s the author of Games: Agency As Art.His new book is The Score: How to Stop Playing Somebody Else's Game.He argues that when we simplify our values for the sake of a leaderboard, something inside the human spirit begins to die. In it, he explores a concept called "value capture"—the moment we stop caring about the experience and start obsessing over the metric. He joins me now to discuss how we can lead a playful, spontaneous life without getting lost in the scoring systems of the 21st century.

(0:00) THE MEANING OF LIFE IS THE CREATIVE PROCESS Why the most valuable parts of life are impossible to measure

(6:46) VALUE CAPTURE DEFINED How external metrics and institutional scoring systems take over our personal values

(11:38) THE METRICS WE LIVE BY The invisible toll of screen time, credit scores, and daily optimization

(19:44) THE LOGIC OF QUANTIFICATION Why simple numbers travel well but strip away vital human context

(24:13) THE MAGIC CIRCLE OF PLAY Understanding the difference between a gamified life and the true beauty of struggle

(31:56) ART AS A GAME How taking the hard way and avoiding efficiency leads to genuine creative expression

(38:48) THE POLITICS OF TECHNOLOGY Why tools and systems like factories and databases are never truly value-neutral

(44:23) AI AND HUMAN CREATIVITY Navigating the tension between automated efficiency and expressive human art

(50:44) THE POLITICS OF IQ Questioning the assumption that complex human traits can be measured on a single scale

(1:01:12) NARRATIVE SCAFFOLDING How structured constraints in role-playing games can actually boost collaborative storytelling

(1:10:00) THE SPIRIT OF PLAY Stepping lightly between different rule worlds and reclaiming our agency

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"The thing that puzzled him was why people don't agree to be fully expressed while they're alive. Why does it only happen in their last moment? Why wouldn't you live being fully expressed?"

My guest today is AL Kennedy. She is one of Britain’s most acclaimed and versatile literary voices, a writer who can inhabit the internal life of a soldier in a POW camp, as she did in her Costa Book Award-winning novel Day, as easily as she can navigate the "professional lying" of a modern civil servant.

Her latest novel, Alive in the Merciful Country, takes place during the 2020 lockdown. It tells the story of a primary school teacher who receives a confession from an undercover police officer who infiltrated her life decades earlier. It’s a provocative investigation into state power, the "Spy Cops" scandal and the search for mercy in an age of surveillance. It’s a book about the breakdown of trust. We talk about her life, her activism, and why she believes fiction is the only way to tell the truth when the facts are forbidden and how she balances the truth of her novels with the relief of stand-up comedy.

(0:00) Finding Your Voice

On the Alfred Wolfsohn voice method and the power of being fully expressed

(2:30) Reading from Alive in the Merciful Country

Kennedy shares a passage from her latest novel, exploring hope and resilience in dark times.

(4:43) The Myth of Shrinking Attention Spans

Challenging the narrative that modern audiences cannot focus, and the importance of engaging storytelling.

(6:22) Education and the Foundation of Democracy

The dangers of dismantling education and how critical thinking protects us from fascism.

(10:26) The Spy Cop Scandal and State Surveillance

Unpacking the reality of undercover police infiltrating peaceful protests and intimate lives.

(13:59) Lockdown: A Global Pause and the Inrush of Empathy

The fleeting moment of unified humanity during the pandemic and how it was ultimately betrayed.

(17:34) Writing Without Theft: The Ethics of Character Creation

Kennedy explains her imaginative process and why she refuses to steal details from real people's lives.

(28:16) AI, Digital Slop, and the Loss of Trust

Reflections on artificial intelligence as an unstable plagiarism machine and its impact on truth.

(30:03) Nature, Spirituality, and the Merciful Country

Finding healing in the natural world and navigating the future with love and awareness.

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What happens when the state infiltrates your most intimate relationships? How do we protect the innocence and imagination of children in an increasingly authoritarian world? “"If you have love, eventually you're going to win. It's not that people aren't going to die. It's not terrible things aren't going to happen. But if you stay with that and you stay centered in that, you'll get through and you will not have turned into a monster in order to overcome monsters.”

My guest today is AL Kennedy. She is one of Britain’s most acclaimed and versatile literary voices, a writer who can inhabit the internal life of a soldier in a POW camp, as she did in her Costa Book Award-winning novel Day, as easily as she can navigate the "professional lying" of a modern civil servant.

Her latest novel, Alive in the Merciful Country, takes place during the 2020 lockdown. It tells the story of a primary school teacher who receives a confession from an undercover police officer who infiltrated her life decades earlier. It’s a provocative investigation into state power, the "Spy Cops" scandal and the search for mercy in an age of surveillance. It’s a book about the breakdown of trust. We talk about her life, her activism, and why she believes fiction is the only way to tell the truth when the facts are forbidden and how she balances the truth of her novels with the relief of stand-up comedy.

(0:00) Finding Your VoiceOn the Alfred Wolfsohn voice method and the power of being fully expressed

(2:17) Education and the Foundation of Democracy
The dangers of dismantling education and how critical thinking protects us from fascism.

(5:14) The Myth of Shrinking Attention SpansChallenging the narrative that modern audiences cannot focus, and the importance of engaging storytelling.

(8:23) Reading from Alive in the Merciful CountryKennedy shares a passage from her latest novel, exploring hope and resilience in dark times.

(17:45) The Spy Cop Scandal and State SurveillanceUnpacking the reality of undercover police infiltrating peaceful protests and intimate lives.

(22:07) AI, Digital Slop, and the Loss of TrustReflections on artificial intelligence as an unstable plagiarism machine and its impact on truth.

(28:29) The Power of the Powerless: Radical WhimsyHow absurdity, humor, and inflatable costumes can disrupt authoritarian mindsets and potential violence.

(33:13) Lockdown: A Global Pause and the Inrush of EmpathyThe fleeting moment of unified humanity during the pandemic and how it was ultimately betrayed.

(42:53) Writing Without Theft: The Ethics of Character CreationKennedy explains her imaginative process and why she refuses to steal details from real people's lives.

(1:29:40) Nature, Spirituality, and the Merciful CountryFinding healing in the natural world and navigating the future with love and awareness.

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“Grief is a particular kind of unrequited love. It wasn't unrequited in the past. Usually, we think of unrequited love as you never got to do it, you never had it for yourself. But, in fact, there can be requited love, which is then unrequited love in the paroxysms of grief.”

Today, we are honored to welcome a writer whose work has long explored the intimate landscapes of the mind, memory and the heart. Siri Hustvedt’s writing moves between the personal and the philosophical, the literary and the deeply human. Her work bridges collections of essays, non-fiction, poetry, and seven novels, including the international bestsellers What I Loved and The Summer Without Men. Recipient of the Princess of Asturias Award for Literature and the Gabarron Prize for Thought, her work has been translated into over thirty languages. Her new memoir, Ghost Stories, is a reflection on forty-three years shared with her late husband, the writer and filmmaker Paul Auster. In its pages, we encounter not only love and loss, but the quiet persistence of presence, memory, and language itself.

(0:00) “We were hugely important to the drama of becoming in our own lives”

(2:04) Grief as Unrequited Love

Siri explores the emotional reality of living without Paul Auster, noting that grief occurs because love does not stop when a person dies.

(3:19) The Shared Space of a 43-year Marriage

(4:36) Reading from Ghost Stories

Siri reads the opening passage of her memoir, detailing how the loss of her husband deranged her sense of time and bodily rhythms.

(7:02) How Loss Changes Our Sense of Time

(11:24) How Powerful Emotions and a Person's Life Can Play a Role in Illness

(13:04) Believing in a Reality that Transcends the Individual

(20:06) Physical Love in Marriage

On the importance of physical intimacy in long-term marriages, a reality often left out of grief memoirs.

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“Grief happens because you don't stop loving the person who died. The person doesn't exist in your reality anymore. The everyday is not colored and shaped by this other human being, but you don't stop loving the person. So grief is a particular kind of unrequited love. And probably without that dynamic relationship with this person, I would be someone else. And he would've been someone else. I mean, Paul died before me. But we were, I think, hugely important to the drama of becoming in our own lives.”

Today, we are honored to welcome a writer whose work has long explored the intimate landscapes of the mind, memory and the heart. Siri Hustvedt’s writing moves between the personal and the philosophical, the literary and the deeply human. Her work bridges collections of essays, non-fiction, poetry, and seven novels, including the international bestsellers What I Loved and The Summer Without Men. Recipient of the Princess of Asturias Award for Literature and the Gabarron Prize for Thought, her work has been translated into over thirty languages. Her new memoir, Ghost Stories, is a reflection on forty-three years shared with her late husband, the writer and filmmaker Paul Auster. In its pages, we encounter not only love and loss, but the quiet persistence of presence, memory, and language itself.

(0:00) Grief as Unrequited Love

Siri explores the emotional reality of living without Paul Auster, noting that grief occurs because love does not stop when a person dies.

(4:00) Facing Death with Courage

The importance of not hiding from mortality and how discussing end-of-life wishes offered a necessary perspective.

(12:37) Reading from Ghost Stories

Siri reads the opening passage of her memoir, detailing how the loss of her husband deranged her sense of time and bodily rhythms.

(18:41) The Phantom Limb: ” The beloved is taken away and it feels as if you're amputated or gutted.”

(21:50)  Grandfather, Father and Son: Generational Traumas Behind Paul Auster's Writing

(24:11) How Powerful Emotions and a Person's Life Can Play a Role in Illness

(30:09) Feeding the Earth

"Paul very pointedly told me that he wanted to be buried in the Jewish mode. And the phrase he used was, “I want my body to feed the earth.”

(44:23) Physical Love in Marriage

On the importance of physical intimacy in long-term marriages, a reality often left out of grief memoirs.

(54:00) The Philosophy of the Between

How relational existence is foundational to life.

(1:00:16) The Hubris of Controlling Nature

(1:12:00) The Dark History of Statistics

(1:32:12) The Art of Learning vs. AI and Automated Outcomes

“I think we have to ask ourselves, what is education? What do we want from it? How do we want people to learn?

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Can curiosity and empathy be taught? How can we expand our sense of solidarity through stories? In this episode, we explore the internal dialogues of artists, actors and writers to ask what it means to step into someone else's shoes.

(0:00) Novelist Jim Shepard discusses Literature as a Tool for Emotional Education and Exploring History

(2:05) Tony Award-winning Actor Neil Patrick Harris on Being Moved by Theater and its Ability to Bridge Worlds

(3:55) Novelist Katie Kitamura on How a Book is Made in Collaboration with the Reader

(5:00) Screenwriter, Playwright Laura Eason on Inhabiting the Hearts of Characters Different from Ourselves

(6:03) Academy Award-winning Director Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy on the Art of Visual Storytelling

(6:37) Cinematographer, Director Benoit Delhomme on the Freedom of Handheld Cinematography

(7:19) Author Etgar Keret on Looking for Humanity through Shared Intention

(8:18) Viet Thanh Nguyen – Opposing Power through Expansive Solidarity

(9:27) Adam Moss – Author, Fmr. Editor New York magazine on “The Work of Art”

(10:29) John Patrick Shanley – Tony & Academy Award-winning Writer, Director on Finding Value in Ordinary Experiences and the Creative Power of Daydreaming

(11:56) Pulitzer Prize-winning Journalist Nicholas Kristof on Why Individual Stories are Necessary to Generate Connection

To hear more from each guest, listen to their full interviews.

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"Within society, we seem to have separated the arts out, so they're not so much a part of our daily lives. Often there's something that we feel we should do as a kind of leisure activity or hobby if we have enough time or if we have enough money to engage in them. And this is so fundamentally different to how humans engaged with the arts. When we look back thousands of years, it just was part of the everyday, and I feel like that's a major loss within contemporary societies."

Daisy Fancourt is a Professor of Psychobiology & Epidemiology at UCL and the author ofArt Cure: The Science of How the Arts Transform Our Health. A pioneer in the field of psychoneuroimmunology, she directs the WHO Collaborating Center on Arts and Health, where her research influences global health policy and the integration of the arts into medical care.

(0:00) The Healing Power of the Arts: Longevity, Immunity & Wellbeing

(1:17) Singing to Daphne: How Daisy used singing to comfort her premature daughter in the ICU

(2:47) The Story of Russell: How a stroke survivor used art classes to reclaim his life, health, and identity

(5:23) A Planet of 8 Billion Artists: Tracing the evolutionary origins of creativity back 40,000 years

(8:58) Psychoneuroimmunology. Defining the biological mechanisms: how art reduces inflammation and cortisol

(12:42) Art & Longevity. How arts engagement can slow biological aging and alter gene expression

(18:24) Safeguarding Creativity. Why we should use AI for routine tasks but protect the human joy of the creative process

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Did you know that visiting a museum can lower your cortisol levels? Or that singing can bond a group faster than almost any other activity? We tend to think of the arts as entertainment, but science tells a different story. Today, we explore why creativity is hardwired into our biology and how it can be used to treat everything from postnatal depression to stroke recovery.

Daisy Fancourt is a Professor of Psychobiology & Epidemiology at UCL and the author of Art Cure: The Science of How the Arts Transform Our Health. A pioneer in the field of psychoneuroimmunology, she directs the WHO Collaborating Center on Arts and Health, where her research influences global health policy and the integration of the arts into medical care.

(0:00) The Healing Power of the Arts: Longevity, Immunity & Wellbeing

(4:14) The Story of Russell: How a stroke survivor used art classes to reclaim his life, health, and identity

(9:01) A Planet of 8 Billion Artists: Tracing the evolutionary origins of creativity back 40,000 years

(15:30) The Chemistry of Connection. Why singing evolved before language and how it accelerates group bonding

(20:32) Psychoneuroimmunology. Defining the biological mechanisms: how art reduces inflammation and cortisol

(25:57) The Professional Paradox: Balancing the wellbeing benefits of art with the pressures of a creative career

(30:03) Predictive Coding & Play: Why the human brain needs improvisation and why we shouldn't outsource creativity to AI

(33:26) Singing to Daphne: How Daisy usedsinging to comfort her premature daughter in the ICU

(37:55) World Health Organization, Public Policy & Social Prescribing

(46:04) Art & Longevity. How arts engagement can slow biological aging and alter gene expression

(58:17) Finding Artistic Reverence in Nature

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“They're kind of like a hidden superhero in your body and we just didn't know they existed. Muse cells eat the damaged cells, and they can actually turn into new cells using the cellular machinery.”

Dr. Adeel Khan is a global thought leader in regenerative medicine. He is the CEO and Founder of and founder of Eterna Health, whose work with MUSE cell therapy—developed in collaboration with its discoverer, Professor Mari Dezawa—has made him the go-to expert for world leaders, athletes, and celebrities Chris Hemsworth, Kim Kardashian, and Tony Robbins. In this episode, we move beyond the hype of "anti-aging" to explore the hard science of Muse cells (Multilineage-differentiating Stress-Enduring cells). Dr. Khan breaks down how these unique cells differ from the "medicinal signaling cells" (MSCs) found in most clinics and how they act as a bridge to a future where tissue regeneration is standard care.

(0:00) The "Repair Guys" & The Muse Difference Dr. Khan explains why traditional stem cells (MSCs) often disappoint and how Muse cells offer the "best of both worlds": safety and pluripotency.

(2:19) Smart Cells: How They Find the Damage Understanding the "homing mechanism" that allows Muse cells to sense inflammation and instinctively travel to injured areas like the brain or heart.

(3:11) Curing the Incurable: Diabetes & Alzheimer's The potential of the "cure triad"—stem cells, gene therapy, and FMT—to treat complex autoimmune diseases within the next decade.

(4:40) Biological Noise & The Symphony of Health How "static" in our gene expression indicates aging, and how cellular therapy can reduce this noise to restore the body's harmony.

(6:40) The Viral Monkey Study Dr. Khan discusses a recent study showing significant de-aging in monkeys through high-frequency cell dosing.

(7:32) Unshakeable Foundations: Lifestyle as Medicine
Why advanced therapies must be paired with purpose, community, and mindfulness to create a "bulletproof" body.

(8:44) From Sketchy to Standardized
Navigating the regulatory landscape: why Muse cells are being classified as a drug in regions like the UAE and the path toward FDA approval.

(12:24) A Personal Mission
Dr. Khan shares the origin of his journey: trying to find solutions for his mother's chronic illness when traditional medicine failed.

(14:16) The Cancer Hunter
Unlike other pluripotent cells that risk tumor growth, Muse cells have a unique mechanism that can detect cancer cells and trigger their death.

(18:30)Future Outlook: AI, Nature & Blue Zones Reflections on the risks of AI, the importance of "Blue Zone" city design, and reconnecting with nature in a post-human world.

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"The repair mechanisms don't work as well as you get older... The whole idea was: if we can give you more of the 'repair guys,' maybe we can reverse disease."

Dr. Adeel Khan is a global thought leader in regenerative medicine. He is the CEO and Founder of and founder of Eterna Health, whose work with MUSE cell therapy—developed in collaboration with its discoverer, Professor Mari Dezawa—has made him the go-to expert for world leaders, athletes, and celebrities Chris Hemsworth, Kim Kardashian, and Tony Robbins. In this episode, we move beyond the hype of "anti-aging" to explore the hard science of Muse cells (Multilineage-differentiating Stress-Enduring cells). Dr. Khan breaks down how these unique cells differ from the "medicinal signaling cells" (MSCs) found in most clinics and how they act as a bridge to a future where tissue regeneration is standard care.

(0:00) The Future of Regenerative Medicine

(6:13) The Muse Difference: Why these cells are "pluripotent" (able to become any tissue) without the cancer risks of Yamanaka factors.

(10:29) Curing the Incurable: Diabetes & Alzheimer's

(11:27) The Cure Triad: How combining stem cells, gene therapy, and Fecal Microbial Transplants (FMT) could cure complex autoimmune diseases within a decade.

(12:56) Biological Noise: Measuring the "mistakes" in our gene expression to quantify aging.

(16:42) Lifestyle as Medicine: Why Dr. Khan prescribes community, mindfulness, and nature immersion alongside advanced therapies.

(18:13) From Sketchy to Standardized: The Regulatory Landscape

(23:25) A Personal Mission: Trying to Save Mom

(25:38) The Cancer Hunter: How Muse cells naturally detect and trigger cell death in tumors.

(29:02) Quantum Biology & Healing Frequencies
(41:13) The AI Pessimist: Planning for a Post-Human World

(44:03) Reconnecting with Nature

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In this special edition, we hear from our guests from across the arts and sciences. From composers and poets to forest ecologists and climate envoys, they tell the story of our planet. Moving beyond the data of destruction, we explore the intelligence of nature, the ethics of what we eat, and the empathy required to save our future.

MAX RICHTER, Composer, Sleep, The Blue Notebooks

CARL SAFINA, Author, Becoming Wild

ADA LIMÓN, 24th US Poet Laureate

CYNTHIA DANIELS, Grammy Award-winning Sound Eng.

SUZANNE SIMARD, Finding the Mother Tree

JOELLE GERGIS, Lead Author, IPCC 6th Assessment Rpt

NOAH WILSON-RICH, CEO, Best Bees Company

INGRID NEWKIRK, PETA Founder

BERTRAND PICCARD, Solar Impulse Foundation

DAVID FARRIER, Author, Footprints

KATHLEEN ROGERS, Pres, Earth Day Network

ODED GALOR, Unified Growth Theory

PETER SINGER, Philosopher

GEOFF MULGAN, Another World Is Possible

CLAIRE POTTER, Welcome to the Circular Economy

CHRIS FUNK, Dir. Climate Hazards Car.

JENNIFER MORGAN, Special Envoy, International Climate Action

To hear more from each guest, listen to their full interviews.

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On Music, Trust and Connection with the Animal World

“Mostly I’ll play in a minor key, something sad, which I think can work for an animal because they can sense the sadness, and they try to reassure me and comfort me. I chose love songs because I'm convinced they are very intuitive and they can sense what I am trying to say to them, and profess my love in a way. I think there's always a way to connect, and if you're being cautious and don't threaten the animals, something beautiful can happen.”

Musician Plumestakes his guitar to the world's most unlikely concert halls—farms, sanctuaries, and wild habitats. A passionate advocate for veganism and animal welfare, we discuss what animals hear, how trust forms, and what music can reveal when it enters a world not made for humans alone.

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How is music a pathway to understanding animals?

Musician Plumes‍ takes his guitar to the world's most unlikely concert halls—farms, sanctuaries, and wild habitats. A passionate advocate for veganism and animal welfare, we discuss what animals hear, how trust forms, and what music can reveal when it enters a world not made for humans alone.

“Mostly I’ll play in a minor key, something sad, which I think can work for an animal because they can sense the sadness, and they try to reassure me and comfort me. I chose love songs because I'm convinced they are very intuitive and they can sense what I am trying to say to them, and profess my love in a way. I think there's always a way to connect, and if you're being cautious and don't threaten the animals, something beautiful can happen.”

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On the urgent need to reclaim our political voices, the forces that silence dissent, and how art and poetry are crucial tools for survival

Our guest today is an activist scholar who believes the classroom is inseparable from the public square. David Palumbo-Liu is the Louise Hewlett Nixon Professor of Comparative Literature at Stanford University and a founding faculty member of Stanford’s Program in Comparative Studies in Race and Ethnicity. But his work has long reached beyond the academy. Through his book, Speaking Out of Place: Getting Our Political Voices Back, and his podcast of the same name, he insists that the great global crises of our time—from escalating wars and democratic failures to environmental collapse—are fundamentally crises of value and voice. His recent work has put him on the front lines of campus activism, challenging institutions, resigning his membership from the MLA, a move that highlights the ethical cost of speaking truth to power. We’ll talk about what he calls the "carceral logic" of the modern university, why art and poetry are crucial tools for survival in times of war, and what he tells his students about preparing for a future defined by uncertainty. His perspective is rooted in literature, but his urgency is all about the world we live in now. We will discuss the forces that silence dissent, the "imperial logic" of AI, and what it means to be a moral, active citizen when the systems we rely on are failing.

“There is a dispute about what the American Dream is or how it would play out in different circumstances. The American dream has essentially been narrowed into a white Christian nationalist notion of things so that everything that falls outside what they imagine that to be is not only undesirable, but should be the subject of extermination, deportation, and detention. I am heartened by the fact that more of our 'better angels' are emerging with a more capacious and expansive notion of what the American dream could be.”

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On the urgent need to reclaim our political voices, the forces that silence dissent, and how art and poetry are crucial tools for survival

“There is a dispute about what the American Dream is or how it would play out in different circumstances. The American dream has essentially been narrowed into a white Christian nationalist notion of things so that everything that falls outside what they imagine that to be is not only undesirable, but should be the subject of extermination, deportation, and detention. I am heartened by the fact that more of our 'better angels' are emerging with a more capacious and expansive notion of what the American dream could be.”

Our guest today is an activist scholar who believes the classroom is inseparable from the public square. David Palumbo-Liu is the Louise Hewlett Nixon Professor of Comparative Literature at Stanford University and a founding faculty member of Stanford’s Program in Comparative Studies in Race and Ethnicity. But his work has long reached beyond the academy. Through his book, Speaking Out of Place: Getting Our Political Voices Back, and his podcast of the same name, he insists that the great global crises of our time—from escalating wars and democratic failures to environmental collapse—are fundamentally crises of value and voice.

His recent work has put him on the front lines of campus activism, challenging institutions, resigning his membership from the MLA, a move that highlights the ethical cost of speaking truth to power. We’ll talk about what he calls the "carceral logic" of the modern university, why art and poetry are crucial tools for survival in times of war, and what he tells his students about preparing for a future defined by uncertainty. His perspective is rooted in literature, but his urgency is all about the world we live in now. We will discuss the forces that silence dissent, the "imperial logic" of AI, and what it means to be a moral, active citizen when the systems we rely on are failing.

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Instagram:@creativeprocesspodcast

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How do writers develop their voice, showing us what is important in life?

ADA LIMÓN(24th U.S. Poet Laureate, Startlement, The Carrying) explains that her poetry begins with a bodily sensation or curiosity, not an idea. She values the space and breath poetry offers for unknowing and mystery, finding solace in the making and the mess, not in answers. She discusses being free on the page to be her whole, authentic, complicated self.

JAY PARINI (Author, Filmmaker, Borges and Me) calls poetry the prince of literary arts—language refined to its apex of memorability. He recounts how his road trip with Borges around Scotland restored him from depression and anxiety following the Vietnam War death of his friend.

JERICHO BROWN (Pulitzer Prize-winning Poet, The Tradition, How We Do It: Black Writers on Craft, Practice, and Skill) discusses the rhythm of black vernacular and capturing "symphonic complexity of black life". He shares how he’s found a way not to think about personal risk as he’s writing.

ADAM MOSS (Fmr. Editor, New York Magazine; Author, The Work of Art) relates David Simon’s concept of the bounce, in which creativity gains momentum as it is passed between people.

VIET THANH NGUYEN (Pulitzer Prize-winning Author, The Sympathizer; To Save and to Destroy) discusses his path to expansive solidarity and capacious grief and how it works against the state's power to divide and conquer. He emphasizes that literature is crucial because authoritarian regimes abuse language; a commitment to the beauty of language is a commitment to truth, and fear is often an indicator of a truth that needs to be spoken.

To hear more from each guest, listen to their full interviews.

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How can we use negative spaces in fiction to engage with readers’ imaginations? How are memory and trauma passed onto us through language? How do we become more than the stories we tell ourselves?

KATIE KITAMURA (Author, Audition, Intimacies) emphasizes that a book is created in collaboration with the reader, using negative spaces in the narrative structure to allow for reader interpretation, paralleling the space between audience and actor in performance.

PAUL LYNCH (Booker Prize-winning Novelist, Prophet Song) discusses the richness and slipperiness of the English language in Ireland, shaped by the overlay of English onto Irish grammatical constructions, resulting in unique phrasing and a capacity to create new constructions.

DANIEL PEARLE (Screenwriter, Playwright, The Beast in Me) shares that audiences are fascinated by the unfettered, uncensored ID in characters, reflecting the universal fantasy of acting without consequences. He advises writers to put people who deeply irritate them into a play, as those characters often become the audience's favorites.

HALA ALYAN (Novelist, Poet, I’ll Tell You When I’m Home: A Memoir) describes her work as an excavation of the darkest hours and intergenerational trauma carried by her lineage, which has endured repeated exile. She links exile from the body to the larger patterns of not having a place in the world.

T.C. BOYLE(Novelist, Short Story Writer, Environmentalist) shares that the creative process involves a magic in reaching for the unconscious and the surprise of the creative process. He emphasizes that art and nature are our salvations, over money. He advocates for solitude in nature—alone on a beach or in the woods—to connect with the natural world.

ADAM ALTER (Author of Anatomy of a Breakthrough) discusses the axioms of creativity, noting that being around more people, even those who are "deeply incompetent," is generally beneficial for creativity by providing diversity of opinion and information, preceding the necessary time for solitary focus.

SHEHAN KARUNATILAKA (Booker Prize-winning Author of The Seven Moons of Maali Almeida) explains his decision to write in the second person as a way of exploring the spiritual dimension of the internal voice. He posits that the "you" could be a spirit whispering thoughts, leading people (and nations) astray.

DANIEL HANDLER A.K.A LEMONY SNICKET (Author, A Series of Unfortunate Events) argues that his books for children and adults are not fundamentally different and says everyone's childhood is full of powerful emotions derived from ordinary injustices, noting that we cry hardest over hurt feelings, not global catastrophes.

ADA LIMÓN (24th U.S. Poet Laureate, Startlement, The Carrying) talks about her responsibility as a writer to honor her ancestors, specifically her grandfather, who had to sublimate his creative spirit for safety and belonging, leading her to prioritize grace and freedom in her own writing.

To hear more from each guest, listen to their full interviews.

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“ I think we're betting on AI as something that can help to solve a lot of problems for us. It's the future, we think, whether it's producing text or art, or doing medical research or planning our lives for us, etc., the bet is that AI is going to be great, that it's going to get us everything we want and make everything better. But at the same time, we're gambling, at the extreme end, with the future of humanity  , hoping for the best and hoping that this, what I'm calling the AI wager, is going to work out to our advantage, but we'll see.”

As we move towards 2026, we are in a massive “upgrade moment” that most of us can feel. New pressures, new identities, new expectations on our work, our relationships, and our inner lives. Throughout the year, I've been speaking with professional creatives, climate and tech experts, teachers, neuroscientists, psychologists, and futureists about how AI can be used intelligently and ethically as a partnership to ensure we do not raise a generation that relies on machines to think for them. It’s not that we are being replaced by machines. It’s that we’re being invited to become a new kind of human. Where AI isn’t the headline; human transformation is. And that includes the arts, culture, and the whole of society. Generative AI – the technologies that write our emails, draft our reports, and even create art – have become a fixture of daily life, and the philosophical and moral questions they raise are no longer abstract. They are immediate, personal, and potentially disruptive to the core of what we consider human work.

Our guest today, Sven Nyholm, is one of the leading voices helping us navigate this new reality. As the Principal Investigator of AI Ethics at the Munich Center for Machine Learning, and co-editor of the journal Science and Engineering Ethics. He has spent his career dissecting the intimate relationship between humanity and the machine. His body of work systematically breaks down concepts that worry us all: the responsibility gap in autonomous systems, the ethical dimensions of human-robot interaction, and the question of whether ceding intellectual tasks to a machine fundamentally atrophies our own skills. His previous books, like Humans and Robots: Ethics, Agency, and Anthropomorphism, have laid the foundational groundwork for understanding these strange new companions in our lives.

His forthcoming book is The Ethics of Artificial Intelligence: A Philosophical Introduction. The book is a rigorous exploration of everything from algorithmic bias and opacity to the long-term existential risks of powerful AI. We’ll talk about what it means when an algorithm can produce perfect language without genuine meaning, why we feel entitled to take credit for an AI’s creation, and what this technological leap might be costing us, personally, as thinking, moral beings.

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As we move towards 2026, we are in a massive “upgrade moment” that most of us can feel. New pressures, new identities, new expectations on our work, our relationships, and our inner lives. Throughout the year, I've been speaking with professional creatives, climate and tech experts, teachers, neuroscientists, psychologists, and futureists about how AI can be used intelligently and ethically as a partnership to ensure we do not raise a generation that relies on machines to think for them. It’s not that we are being replaced by machines. It’s that we’re being invited to become a new kind of human. Where AI isn’t the headline; human transformation is. And that includes the arts, culture, and the whole of society. Generative AI – the technologies that write our emails, draft our reports, and even create art – have become a fixture of daily life, and the philosophical and moral questions they raise are no longer abstract. They are immediate, personal, and potentially disruptive to the core of what we consider human work.

Our guest today, Sven Nyholm, is one of the leading voices helping us navigate this new reality. As the Principal Investigator of AI Ethics at the Munich Center for Machine Learning, and co-editor of the journal Science and Engineering Ethics. He has spent his career dissecting the intimate relationship between humanity and the machine. His body of work systematically breaks down concepts that worry us all: the responsibility gap in autonomous systems, the ethical dimensions of human-robot interaction, and the question of whether ceding intellectual tasks to a machine fundamentally atrophies our own skills. His previous books, like Humans and Robots: Ethics, Agency, and Anthropomorphism, have laid the foundational groundwork for understanding these strange new companions in our lives.

His forthcoming book is The Ethics of Artificial Intelligence: A Philosophical Introduction. The book is a rigorous exploration of everything from algorithmic bias and opacity to the long-term existential risks of powerful AI. We’ll talk about what it means when an algorithm can produce perfect language without genuine meaning, why we feel entitled to take credit for an AI’s creation, and what this technological leap might be costing us, personally, as thinking, moral beings.

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As we move towards 2026, we are in a massive “upgrade moment” that most of us can feel. New pressures, new identities, new expectations on our work, our relationships, and our inner lives. Throughout the year, I've been speaking with professional creatives, climate and tech experts, teachers, neuroscientists, psychologists, and futureists about how AI can be used intelligently and ethically as a partnership to ensure we do not raise a generation that relies on machines to think for them. It’s not that we are being replaced by machines. It’s that we’re being invited to become a new kind of human. Where AI isn’t the headline; human transformation is. And that includes the arts, culture, and the whole of society. Generative AI – the technologies that write our emails, draft our reports, and even create art – have become a fixture of daily life, and the philosophical and moral questions they raise are no longer abstract. They are immediate, personal, and potentially disruptive to the core of what we consider human work.

Our guest today,Sven Nyholm, is one of the leading voices helping us navigate this new reality. As the Principal Investigator of AI Ethics at the Munich Center for Machine Learning, and co-editor of the journal Science and Engineering Ethics. He has spent his career dissecting the intimate relationship between humanity and the machine. His body of work systematically breaks down concepts that worry us all: the responsibility gap in autonomous systems, the ethical dimensions of human-robot interaction, and the question of whether ceding intellectual tasks to a machine fundamentally atrophies our own skills. His previous books, likeHumans and Robots: Ethics, Agency, and Anthropomorphism,have laid the foundational groundwork for understanding these strange new companions in our lives.

His forthcoming book isThe Ethics of Artificial Intelligence: A Philosophical Introduction. The book is a rigorous exploration of everything from algorithmic bias and opacity to the long-term existential risks of powerful AI. We’ll talk about what it means when an algorithm can produce perfect language without genuine meaning, why we feel entitled to take credit for an AI’s creation, and what this technological leap might be costing us, personally, as thinking, moral beings.

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“People today are so used to Basquiat's prices being extraordinarily high and rising that it's almost hard for people to understand that wasn't always the case. In the year he died, 1988, a terrific painting by Basquiat might have sold for $30,000. Relative to his other artistic peers, like a great Julian Schnabel painting that cost $800,000. After Basquiat died, some speculative capital entered his market, and his prices did pop, but in the early 1990s, his prices fell apart, and for much of the first half of the 1990s, his work was selling for 80% off what it had been selling before. Auction houses didn't want to include him in their auctions. There was a really good chance he was going to be remembered, but certainly not become a great star. Three key figures believed in him and proceeded to buy almost every available Basquiat in the first half of the 1990s. They were also just passionate believers in his work. But for those three people, it would have taken much longer for Basquiat to achieve acclaim, if ever.”

Today, we’re joined by someone uniquely positioned to unpack the art world’s inner workings and to help us understand one of its most mythic figures — Jean-Michel Basquiat. Doug Woodham is the author of the new biography, Jean-Michel Basquiat: The Making of an Icon, the first major life study of Basquiat in over twenty-five years. Drawing on more than a hundred interviews — from family and friends to collectors and curators — Doug traces the rise, fall, and resurrection of an artist who redefined what it means to be a cultural icon. Before turning to writing, Doug served as President of the Americas for Christie’s, one of the world’s leading auction houses. That role gave him an insider’s perspective on how value is created — and mythologized — in the modern art market. In this conversation, we’ll explore not just the man behind the legend, but the powerful machinery that turned Jean-Michel Basquiat into one of the most recognized and commercially successful artists in the world.

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“All of the great artists are there for a reason: because they rebelled in some way. They created a visual vocabulary that felt fresh and new, which excited people. So, the great artists are not built on sort of anthills of sand. They're built on things of substance and of meaning. Though this is not a sufficient condition to become an icon, it's a necessary but not sufficient condition. I think you have to have an interesting and vivid personality or personal narrative that makes you interesting for people to talk about and want to learn about. I think you also have to have a support network of galleries, curators, and collectors who are excited about your work and want to push it forward, not wanting it to be forgotten. Basquiat's visual vocabulary is distinctive and stands out relative to what was being done in the 1980s. That's the sort of strong hill on which his reputation is built. Basquiat benefited from being the first black artist of note who got pushed forward. As in many things, the first benefits.”

Today, we’re joined by someone uniquely positioned to unpack the art world’s inner workings and to help us understand one of its most mythic figures — Jean-Michel Basquiat. Doug Woodham is the author of the new biography, Jean-Michel Basquiat: The Making of an Icon, the first major life study of Basquiat in over twenty-five years. Drawing on more than a hundred interviews — from family and friends to collectors and curators — Doug traces the rise, fall, and resurrection of an artist who redefined what it means to be a cultural icon. Before turning to writing, Doug served as President of the Americas for Christie’s, one of the world’s leading auction houses. That role gave him an insider’s perspective on how value is created — and mythologized — in the modern art market. In this conversation, we’ll explore not just the man behind the legend, but the powerful machinery that turned Jean-Michel Basquiat into one of the most recognized and commercially successful artists in the world.

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“How do you render something interior filmically? How do you communicate the details of the lost child, of the amount of time of the stuck creative process, and even the exterior, or the externalization of the house as a kind of hellish thing that's barely staying together—literally flooding with waste—and that you can't afford? So those are the details that we had to carefully figure out how to weave. But, you know, when you look at the first 10 minutes, it could be a horror movie. From that moment, a lot can happen. But what's important about it is that it sets the table for what does happen.” -Howard Gordon

Today, we explore the dark psychology of obsession, guilt, and the thin line between predator and victim. Our guests are two of television's most accomplished architects of high-stakes drama and moral ambiguity: Howard Gordon, the showrunner and executive producer whose work defined a generation of thrillers with 24 and the multi-award-winning Homeland; and Daniel Pearle, an executive producer and writer who brings a distinct, penetrating depth from his background as a celebrated playwright and his work on series like Accused and American Crime Story.

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“And I think there's also just something about an unfettered or uncensored id that is so captivating. We all have that fantasy of doing exactly what we want with no consequences and sort of letting that go. I think when you see an athlete at the peak of their game, doing that embodied thing and living that dream, or when someone has actually done horrible things that you would never allow yourself to do, there is a fascination there. I had one teacher who said, "Anyone who drives you crazy or that you just cannot stand in life, put them in a play or put them in a scene, and the audience will love them." If someone has really gotten under your skin and you just cannot stand them, and you have a visceral reaction—like, "I just hate this person"—make them a character, and the audience will make them everyone's favorite character. There is something to that.” - Daniel Pearle

Today, we explore the dark psychology of obsession, guilt, and the thin line between predator and victim. Our guests are two of television's most accomplished architects of high-stakes drama and moral ambiguity: Howard Gordon, the showrunner and executive producer whose work defined a generation of thrillers with 24 and the multi-award-winning Homeland; and Daniel Pearle, an executive producer and writer who brings a distinct, penetrating depth from his background as a celebrated playwright and his work on series like Accused and American Crime Story..

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“I can change my mind. I can reduce anger, hatred. Nothing to do with religion. All religions carry the message of love, loving kindness, and tolerance. With different views, there is a possibility to synthesize new ideas. If majority of the world leaders become female, world become safer. I feel that. Compassion is the key factor. Non-violence, compassion and self-confidence, these are key factors for happy individual, happy community, peaceful world. This century should be century of compassion, century of peace. No more bloodshed. We should develop a big “we,” rather than “we” or “they.” With these wings, you can fly.” -DALAI LAMA

For decades, the Dalai Lama has been a global symbol of peace, compassion, and resilience, a spiritual leader living in exile from his home in Tibet. But how do you capture the essence of his wisdom—the kind that can truly change a life—in a way that feels intimate and personal? My guest today, documentary filmmaker Barbara Miller, has managed to do just that in her new film, Wisdom of Happiness. It’s a beautiful film that feels less like a documentary and more like a private, heart-to-heart conversation, where he invites us into his thoughts and shares practical steps for finding inner peace in a chaotic world.  She's dealt with anti-globalization, domestic violence, and the fight for female pleasure in her previous works. We’ll talk about how she shifted from exposing systemic pain to focusing on radical hope and her collaboration with Executive Producer Richard Gere and Manuel Bauer, the Dalai Lama’s personal photographer for the last thirty-five years, who made his cinematography debut with this film. She shares what the Dalai Lama taught her about living in harmony with our body, nature, and the world.

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“ Everybody wants happiness, joyfulness, peaceful world. Our 21st century will not be easy century. Fear, anger, hatred. In our mind we created distinctions. Different nationality, different color, different religion. Strong concept of “we” and “they”. Brothers and sisters of this small planet, we are same human beings. Meanwhile, global warming is a serious problem. Destruction of this planet is actually destruction of yourself. Our common responsibility should be work together, to save our world. We all have this marvelous human brain. The problem is, when negative emotions develop, our whole mind is taken over. So, we must deal with emotions.

I can change my mind. I can reduce anger, hatred. Nothing to do with religion. All religions carry the message of love, loving kindness, and tolerance. With different views, there is a possibility to synthesize new ideas. If majority of the world leaders become female, world become safer. I feel that. Compassion is the key factor. Non-violence, compassion and self-confidence, these are key factors for happy individual, happy community, peaceful world. This century should be century of compassion, century of peace. No more bloodshed. We should develop a big “we,” rather than “we” or “they.” With these wings, you can fly.” -DALAI LAMA

For decades, the Dalai Lama has been a global symbol of peace, compassion, and resilience, a spiritual leader living in exile from his home in Tibet. But how do you capture the essence of his wisdom—the kind that can truly change a life—in a way that feels intimate and personal? My guest today, documentary filmmaker Barbara Miller, has managed to do just that in her new film, Wisdom of Happiness. It’s a beautiful film that feels less like a documentary and more like a private, heart-to-heart conversation, where he invites us into his thoughts and shares practical steps for finding inner peace in a chaotic world.  She's dealt with anti-globalization, domestic violence, and the fight for female pleasure in her previous works. We’ll talk about how she shifted from exposing systemic pain to focusing on radical hope and her collaboration with Executive Producer Richard Gere and Manuel Bauer, the Dalai Lama’s personal photographer for the last thirty-five years, who made his cinematography debut with this film. She shares what the Dalai Lama taught her about living in harmony with our body, nature, and the world.

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Today’s episode is about something most of us long for: feeling healthy in our bodies and calm in our minds – not by pushing harder, but by letting the body restore itself. Our guest today is LD Chen, an entrepreneur-turned-author who discovered the ancient wisdom that healing doesn’t come from trying harder, but from restoring the body’s natural intelligence. LD believes everyone has the right to live peacefully and free from constant stress and anxiety – to move through life with genuine joy, peace, and appreciation. After quickly building a 1,000-person company and then facing burnout and serious health issues, LD’s life changed when he encountered an ancient standing practice called Oneness. He is now the Head Coach of the Oneness Institute for America and Europe, and author of the Amazon bestseller Oneness: The Self-Healing Secret You Were Never Supposed to Know.

“Oneness is actually not about learning in the usual way. Most teachings tell you how to learn – how to let go, how to calm down, how to manage anger. Oneness does the opposite: we stand, we train the body to correct the heart, and then we live from that heart.”

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“Oneness is actually not about learning in the usual way. Most teachings tell you how to learn – how to let go, how to calm down, how to manage anger. Oneness does the opposite: we stand, we train the body to correct the heart, and then we live from that heart.”

Today’s episode is about something most of us long for: feeling healthy in our bodies and calm in our minds – not by pushing harder, but by letting the body restore itself. Our guest today is LD Chen, an entrepreneur-turned-author who discovered the ancient wisdom that healing doesn’t come from trying harder, but from restoring the body’s natural intelligence. LD believes everyone has the right to live peacefully and free from constant stress and anxiety – to move through life with genuine joy, peace, and appreciation. After quickly building a 1,000-person company and then facing burnout and serious health issues, LD’s life changed when he encountered an ancient standing practice called Oneness. He is now the Head Coach of the Oneness Institute for America and Europe, and author of the Amazon bestseller Oneness: The Self-Healing Secret You Were Never Supposed to Know.

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“So when we decided to do a documentary to follow Ai Weiwei, we knew, of course, it wouldn't be just a simple opera, and we knew he would bring his own very special and original vision. Because, of course, he is not an opera director. From his point of view, it's a challenge, but from another perspective, it’s probably an enrichment for the opera audience because he doesn't follow the rules of opera. And, of course, once you decide to do a documentary about Ai Weiwei, it's in his DNA to be political. Once I started to follow him, the political issues and topics came into the documentary by themselves.”

The renowned artist and activist Ai Weiwei has used sculpture, photography, documentaries, and large-scale installations to challenge authoritarian power for decades. But his project at the Rome Opera House, directing Puccini’s final opera, Turandot, may be his most powerful fusion of art and politics yet. Puccini’s original is a fairy tale set in ancient China about a princess whose riddle game costs failed suitors their lives. But Ai Weiwei transformed this story into a stark reflection of the present, weaving in footage of refugee crises, COVID hospitals, and the Ukraine war—a production that became an urgent act of resistance for its Ukrainian conductor and cast. The opera and documentary are a living document of our turbulent times, embodying Ai Weiwei’s belief that 'Everything is Art. Everything is Politics.'

The new documentary, Ai Weiwei's Turandot, goes behind the curtain to capture the artistic struggle and emotional weight of making this work—a process that began with one vision and was fundamentally changed by a global pandemic and a major war.

My guest is the documentary’s director, Maxim Derevianko. He grew up in a family with deep ties to the Rome Opera House, and he offers a deeply personal, intimate look at how in Ai Weiwei’s words, “art competes with reality, but art will have the last word.”

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“Everything is Art. Everything is Politics.
I think art competes with reality. And art will give you the last words.” –Ai Weiwei

The renowned artist and activist Ai Weiwei has used sculpture, photography, documentaries, and large-scale installations to challenge authoritarian power for decades. But his project at the Rome Opera House, directing Puccini’s final opera, Turandot, may be his most powerful fusion of art and politics yet. Puccini’s original is a fairy tale set in ancient China about a princess whose riddle game costs failed suitors their lives. But Ai Weiwei transformed this story into a stark reflection of the present, weaving in footage of refugee crises, COVID hospitals, and the Ukraine war—a production that became an urgent act of resistance for its Ukrainian conductor and cast. The opera and documentary are a living document of our turbulent times, embodying Ai Weiwei’s belief that 'Everything is Art. Everything is Politics.'

The new documentary, Ai Weiwei's Turandot, goes behind the curtain to capture the artistic struggle and emotional weight of making this work—a process that began with one vision and was fundamentally changed by a global pandemic and a major war.

My guest is the documentary’s director, Maxim Derevianko. He grew up in a family with deep ties to the Rome Opera House, and he offers a deeply personal, intimate look at how in Ai Weiwei’s words, “art competes with reality, but art will have the last word.”

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How do our environments shape who we are and how we care for the world and each other? There are many solutions to climate change, inequality, and poverty around the world. How can we learn from them and transform our society?

Eiren Caffall (All the Water in the World) discusses the importance of embracing complexity and emotional flexibility in facing ecological grief.

Irvin Weathersby Jr. (In Open Contempt) discusses the transformative power of meditation and nature, drawing inspiration from Emerson and Thoreau.

Jay Parini (Biographies of Steinbeck, Frost, Faulkner…) on the significance of place in literature and life.

Natasha Hakimi Zapata (Another World Is Possible) explores the generosity and hope in people’s efforts to build better societies.

Audrea Lim (Free The Land) on how personal experiences with public lands influence our views on conservation.

Katie Kitamura (Audition, Intimacies) reflects on the role of landscape and memory in her novels.

Dr. Bayo Akomolafe (Philosopher, Founder of Emergence Network) discusses his awe for mountains, using them as a metaphor for humility and the search for meaning beyond oneself.

For more from each guest, listen to their full interviews.

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“There are many ways in which I think human exceptionalism has seeped into the sciences, but one of the many ways is through the methodologies we use when we compare the intelligence of humans and other species. In particular, in my field, I’m a primatologist by training, comparing the cognitive abilities of humans with the abilities of our closest living relatives, the great apes. Many times, those studies compare the intelligence of captive chimpanzees who are living in highly restricted, manmade environments. Often, these chimpanzees have been separated from their biological mothers at birth. They're often separated from the group during testing. They're subjected to very human-centric experimental paradigms, like playing with plastic puzzle boxes or computer touchscreens, and we're measuring how they perform on these tasks.”

In this episode of Speaking Out of Place podcast, Professor David Palumbo-Liu talks with primatologist Christine Webb about her new book, The Arrogant Ape: The Myth of Human Exceptionalism and Why it Matters. The title of the book itself is a concise and precise description of its two constituent halves. First, Webb tells us how science itself, from premodern times onward, has operated with an assumption it keeps reconfirming constantly--that humans are not only exceptional, but also superior to other forms of life. Webb convincingly debunks this science over and over again. And most importantly, she explains how this myth has devastating political, cultural, and environmental consequences. Combining scientific and humanistic studies, we go into some detail about what this arrogance produces, and why we desperately need a much more humble sense of ourselves.

Christine Webb is an Assistant Professor in the Department of Environmental Studies at New York University, where she is part of the Animal Studies program. Her research is driven by growing awareness that the ecological crisis demands a profound shift in how we understand other animals and our place among them, leading to two intersecting lines of inquiry. First, her work seeks to elucidate the complex dynamics of animal social life and to apply this knowledge to foundational questions in animal ethics and conservation. Second, she is interested in how prevailing societal norms, values, and institutions shape contemporary scientific knowledge of other animals and the environment, with a critical emphasis on human exceptionalism. Her debut book, The Arrogant Ape: The Myth of Human Exceptionalism and Why it Matters, was recently published with Avery (Penguin Random House) and is being translated into 17 languages.

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“At Guggenheim Abu Dhabi, I work with a very international team—people from all over the world, around 50 nationalities in this museum. I’ve never worked in such an environment, and it’s inspiring. When you talk to someone from a different country, you can’t help but be inspired. The most important thing for me is to feel fulfilled, and I find fulfillment in learning something new and being inspired every day. Of course, it doesn’t have to be the same for everyone. People can find fulfillment in charity or teaching kids. Everyone chooses what makes them feel fulfilled, as long as it’s meaningful.”

Art museums have long been pillars of culture, but they are now at a critical juncture, navigating a new era defined by artificial intelligence, immersive technology, and the shifting habits of a global audience. The challenge is immense: how do you honor artistic tradition while building a museum for the future? On Saadiyat Island, Abu Dhabi is answering this question in a dramatic way, with the Guggenheim Abu Dhabi. Designed by the visionary architect Frank Gehry, this $1 billion project is more than just a new museum; it’s a statement—a new cultural superpower announcing itself on the world stage. It will be the largest contemporary art museum in the world, several times the size of the Guggenheim in New York, and a key part of their constellation of museums that is expected to contribute an estimated $200 million annually to the local economy. In the lead-up to its 2027 opening, the Guggenheim Abu Dhabi is embracing a new vision: moving from an "exhibition economy" to an "experience economy," where art becomes a conversation, a laboratory for ideas at the intersection of creativity and technology. Amr Hussein is the Digital Media Manager for the Guggenheim Abu Dhabi, and with a background in major sports broadcasting—from the FIFA World Cup to the Olympic Games—he’s bringing a unique perspective to digital storytelling in the arts. We talk to him about his journey and how he’s helping shape the digital narrative for this landmark museum.

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“Guggenheim Abu Dhabi is a unique concept. The idea behind the building itself is a dance. It's a living building because it's a dance between spaces. It's a dance between blocks of spaces and shapes and cones, and it's inspiring for the future because the legacy is a huge factor for every project. It's the legacy for young architects and for other architects. It gives them the space to dream more and to feel like it can be possible, and not to be shy. Present more bold ideas that can inspire creativity because you can't see this building and walk in without feeling like you want to be creative as well.”

Art museums have long been pillars of culture, but they are now at a critical juncture, navigating a new era defined by artificial intelligence, immersive technology, and the shifting habits of a global audience. The challenge is immense: how do you honor artistic tradition while building a museum for the future? On Saadiyat Island, Abu Dhabi is answering this question in a dramatic way, with the Guggenheim Abu Dhabi. Designed by the visionary architect Frank Gehry, this $1 billion project is more than just a new museum; it’s a statement—a new cultural superpower announcing itself on the world stage. It will be the largest contemporary art museum in the world, several times the size of the Guggenheim in New York, and a key part of their constellation of museums that is expected to contribute an estimated $200 million annually to the local economy. In the lead-up to its 2027 opening, the Guggenheim Abu Dhabi is embracing a new vision: moving from an "exhibition economy" to an "experience economy," where art becomes a conversation, a laboratory for ideas at the intersection of creativity and technology. Amr Hussein is the Digital Media Manager for the Guggenheim Abu Dhabi, and with a background in major sports broadcasting—from the FIFA World Cup to the Olympic Games—he’s bringing a unique perspective to digital storytelling in the arts. We talk to him about his journey and how he’s helping shape the digital narrative for this landmark museum.

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“This awe that I feel every time I meet an artist who has the courage to deal with what it means to be in the world as a human being and to tackle it from different ways and through different media. I always feel that through the collaborations I have with artists, I learn a little bit more about the world, myself, my feelings or emotions, and how I reflect on things. Getting another person's perspective and taking that in is extremely generous. What we can take with us from the artistic practices we encounter is significant. Again, I think one of the fundamental aspects of art is that it doesn't require agreement, consensus, or rules. It's a place where we can speculate, imagine, and, hopefully, re-courage ourselves in a way, if that's a word. I've always been motivated by working with artists; that personal meeting is always extremely fruitful.”

In the ever-evolving world of contemporary art, some voices rise to shape the conversation in truly profound ways. Marie Nipper has spent her career at the nexus of institutional leadership, curatorial innovation, and artistic collaboration. As the director of the ARKEN Museum of Contemporary Art in Denmark, she is not just leading a museum; she's rethinking its very purpose—from an artistic lab to a public town square. Her journey has taken her from the hallowed halls of the TATE and ARoS to the forward-thinking spaces of Copenhagen Contemporary, all while championing the freedom of artists and the civic role of the museum.

“I think that is one of the places where we are really challenged, especially when we speak to kids and young people, as they often feel they have little agency in creating a better future for themselves. So, I believe we can really give that space to our audiences by showcasing some of these groundbreaking practices that are out there right now in contemporary art.”

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“We don't need to find an end solution, but it's a space where we can speculate, imagine, and practice our foresight. We can be part of a bigger imagination together with an institutional framework, which is really what we try to motivate as well when we communicate these exhibitions to our audience and speak with our guests about these works. We can also sense that it's really a place where a lot of people like to enter these days. When you turn on a TV, look at a newspaper, listen to your radio, or speak with your friends, it seems like the world is falling apart on so many levels. It's such a challenging time. I think we can also offer this space for reflection and hopefully provide a reflection that gives some idea or feeling of agency.

For me, it's this awe that I feel every time I meet an artist who has the courage to deal with what it means to be in the world as a human being and to tackle it from different ways and through different media. I always feel that through the collaborations I have with artists, I learn a little bit more about the world.”

In the ever-evolving world of contemporary art, some voices rise to shape the conversation in truly profound ways. Marie Nipper has spent her career at the nexus of institutional leadership, curatorial innovation, and artistic collaboration. As the director of the ARKEN Museum of Contemporary Art in Denmark, she is not just leading a museum; she's rethinking its very purpose—from an artistic lab to a public town square. Her journey has taken her from the hallowed halls of the TATE and ARoS to the forward-thinking spaces of Copenhagen Contemporary, all while championing the freedom of artists and the civic role of the museum.

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“Poetry is like one of the great loves of my life, and I think it's probably the longest relationship I'll ever have. I read a lot of poetry. I also wrote these short stories even when I was pretty young, like in second grade, and the stories kept getting shorter and shorter. My family used to go to Damascus in Syria and Lebanon every summer for three months until 2011, when the Civil War broke out in Syria. In 2015, we made our first return after that gap, and my father and I went to Lebanon for two weeks. It's the first time I felt that I belong. To the extent that was true or not, I'm obviously irrevocably American. I speak broken Arabic. I don't think I could ever live in Lebanon or Syria. But for what it was worth at 15 years old, it was a life-changing trip. I wrote my first official poem on the plane back to San Diego from that trip, and I feel that was a formative moment for me. I felt that I had a story to tell and wanted to put it to paper in the form of poetry.”

In this episode of the Speaking Out of Place podcast, Professor David Palumbo-Liutalks with poet Maya Salameh about her poetry collection, How to Make an Algorithm in the Microwave, which won the prestigious Etel Adnan Poetry Prize in 2022. The judges remarked, “Maya Salameh’s poetry stood out for its inventiveness in cracking the code of life ‘between system and culture'…The turns and swerves the poems make are astonishing; the expectations they upend are remarkable… It’s a testament to the aesthetic boundaries and intellectual revolt poets of Arab heritage are pushing, breaking, and reinventing.” We talk about what led her to both technology and poetry, language and story-telling, and the challenges and joys of representing life in the diaspora. In a time of war and genocide, Salameh’s poetry shows how patterns of life and reproduction and desire persist. In her readings and discussions of three poems, we find a new lexicon and a new grammar.

Maya Salameh is the author of MERMAID THEORY (Haymarket Books, 2026), HOW TO MAKE AN ALGORITHM IN THE MICROWAVE (University of Arkansas Press, 2022), winner of the Etel Adnan Poetry Prize, and the chapbook rooh (Paper Nautilus Press, 2020). She has received fellowships from the National Endowment for the Arts, Sewanee Writers’ Conference, Bread Loaf Environmental Writers’ Conference, and the President’s Committee for the Arts and Humanities, and served as a National Student Poet, America’s highest honor for youth poets. Her work has appeared in The Offing, Poetry, Gulf Coast, The Rumpus, AGNI, Mizna, and the LA Times, among others. @mayaslmhhttps://speakingoutofplace.com Bluesky @palumboliu.bsky.social
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“There's something fundamental about the value of art and culture. Not just being integrated for vocational reasons, but because the experience of art and having a cultural element in one's life brings enjoyment, learning, relief, or any of the many experiences and feelings that art provides. I think this is quite fundamental as an element of life. Creativity is key in any career and also in personal life, especially in terms of problem-solving, relationships, kindness, compassion, and empathy. The arts, creativity, and the cultural world at large are not just nice to have; they are essential. Their value is fundamental, although sometimes it's extremely difficult to define. To see the arts lost from the developmental moments in one's life is tragic. Developmental moments in life come at all points in the arc of one's existence. To see that taken or diminished is unfortunate. Everyone involved in working with artists, artists themselves, or those who are creative knows this and believes in it.”

Today, we have with us a figure from the heart of the London art scene, Hannah Barry. At a moment when the art world often feels centered on global mega-galleries, Hannah has cultivated something truly unique in Peckham. With her gallery and the ambitious non-profit, Bold Tendencies, she has created a vibrant platform for a new generation of artists, taking risks and championing experimentation. She has been pivotal in shaping careers and bringing ambitious projects to life. We'll talk to her about the mission behind her work, her journey as a gallerist, and her latest exhibitions, including The Garden with the photographer Harley Weir.

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“I feel that when you don't tell your story, it's as if you have a limited existence. We can always have some kind of choice, but I'm saying that the story we choose may be the most crucial choice that we make, because this story will affect all the other choices.”

Etgar Keret is one of the most inventive and celebrated short story writers of his generation, a voice that captures the absurdities and profound loneliness of modern life with a deceptive, almost casual wit. His work, translated into dozens of languages, uses fantastical premises—from alien visitations to parallel universes—to illuminate the most human of truths. His new collection, Autocorrect, explores a world grappling with technology, loss, and the aftershocks of a global pandemic and, more recently, war. His awards include the Cannes Film Festival’s Caméra d’Or (2007), the Charles Bronfman Prize (2016), and the pres­tigious Sapir Prize (2018). Over a hundred short films and several feature films have been based on his stories. Keret teaches creative writing at Ben-Gurion University of the Negev. He now has a weekly newsletter on Substack called Alphabet Soup. He's also the new MFA Director of the Jewish Theological Seminary, where he's pioneering a new approach to storytelling. Joining me today from Tel Aviv is the great Israeli writer and filmmaker Etgar Keret.

“When I write my stories, I don't want to solve things in life. I just want to persuade myself that there is a way out. Maybe I am in a cell, maybe I'm trapped. Maybe I won't make it, but if I can imagine a plan for escape, then I'll be less trapped because at least in my mind, there is a way. I think that my parents are survivors. They always talked about this idea of humanity. My parents always said to me, when you look at people, don't look at their political views; that's not important. Look at the way that they look at you. If they see you, if they listen to you, if they can understand your intention, even if it's a failing one, they're your people. And if they can't, it doesn't matter.

I think that when I came with my mother and father, they thought there are people, there are human beings, and there are people who want to be human beings but are still struggling. And you go with humanity; you go with the person who can go against his ideology if his heart tells him something.”

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“When I write my stories, I don't want to solve things in life. I just want to persuade myself that there is a way out. Maybe I am in a cell, maybe I'm trapped. Maybe I won't make it, but if I can imagine a plan for escape, then I'll be less trapped because at least in my mind, there is a way. I think that my parents are survivors. They always talked about this idea of humanity. My parents always said to me, when you look at people, don't look at their political views; that's not important. Look at the way that they look at you. If they see you, if they listen to you, if they can understand your intention, even if it's a failing one, they're your people. And if they can't, it doesn't matter.

I think that when I came with my mother and father, they thought there are people, there are human beings, and there are people who want to be human beings but are still struggling. And you go with humanity; you go with the person who can go against his ideology if his heart tells him something.”

Etgar Keret is one of the most inventive and celebrated short story writers of his generation, a voice that captures the absurdities and profound loneliness of modern life with a deceptive, almost casual wit. His work, translated into dozens of languages, uses fantastical premises—from alien visitations to parallel universes—to illuminate the most human of truths. His new collection, Autocorrect, explores a world grappling with technology, loss, and the aftershocks of a global pandemic and, more recently, war. His awards include the Cannes Film Festival’s Caméra d’Or (2007), the Charles Bronfman Prize (2016), and the pres­tigious Sapir Prize (2018). Over a hundred short films and several feature films have been based on his stories. Keret teaches creative writing at Ben-Gurion University of the Negev. He now has a weekly newsletter on Substack called Alphabet Soup. He's also the new MFA Director of the Jewish Theological Seminary, where he's pioneering a new approach to storytelling. Joining me today from Tel Aviv is the great Israeli writer and filmmaker Etgar Keret.

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“I'm Lebanese. I grew up in Lebanon during the Civil War, and I came to the United States as a graduate student with the intention of going back. I never wanted to stay here. I really thought that my life would happen in Beirut, in a city that I loved and hated in the healthiest of ways. My investments, both literary and intellectual, were rooted there. I came here as a graduate student and joined the PhD program, and then the events continued to unfold there, making life more and more of a risk, building a life in a place like Lebanon. The most important counterpoint in my life was meeting my partner, Ahmad Almallah, who is Palestinian. So immediately, my life became the life of a Palestinian by association.

Of course, the past two years—almost two years—have been surreal. I sometimes don't believe that we're going through what we're going through because, as security concerns have become something we think about at home, when we walk from home to campus or my office, I'm constantly anxious to open my mail because often there are things that will require a lot of energy, time, emotion, and are emotionally taxing. There’s a lot of rage now in many aspects of my life, but all that aside, my personal experience—both professional and personal, and at home, familial—are not exceptional. Many other people are experiencing intimidation, silencing, and feeling cornered, censored, and oppressed just because they took a stand—a very decent, normal, basic human stand against genocide.”

In this episode on Speaking Out of Place podcast Professor David Palumbo-Liutalks with Huda Fakhreddine, writer, translator, and scholar of Arabic literature. Among the many topics they touch upon are the challenges of teaching Arabic literature, especially Palestinian literature, in a time of genocide, when universities, professional organizations, and political groups militate against any honest discussion of these topics, and punish those who do. They talk about the notion of belonging and the importance of being able to choose what to belong to, and what not to. Huda speaks of the freedom found in living in Arabic, and explains what that means to her. She also reads in Arabic and English Nima Hasan’s stunning and wrenchingly beautiful poem, “Old Song.”

Huda J. Fakhreddine is a writer, translator, and Associate Professor of Arabic Literature at the University of Pennsylvania. She is the author of Metapoesis in the Arabic Tradition (Brill, 2015) and The Arabic Prose Poem: Poetic Theory and Practice (Edinburgh University Press, 2021), and the co-editor of The Routledge Handbook of Arabic Poetry (Routledge, 2023). Among her translations are The Sky That Denied Me: Selections from Jawdat Fakhreddine (University of Texas Press, 2020), The Universe, All at Once: Selections from Salim Barakat (Seagull Books, 2024), and Palestinian: Four Poems by Ibrahim Nasrallah (World Poetry Books, 2024). Her creative work includes a book of creative non-fiction titled Zaman saghīr taḥt shams thāniya (A Brief Time under a Different Sun), Dar al-Nahda, Beirut, 2019 and the forthcoming Wa min thamma al-ālam (And then the World), Manshūrāt Marfa’, Beirut, 2025. Her translations of Arabic poems have appeared in Protean, Lithub, Words Without Borders, Nimrod, ArabLit Quarterly, Asymptote, and Middle Eastern Literatures, among many others. She is co-editor of Middle Eastern Literatures and section editor of the Encyclopedia of Islam.

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“One day, I woke up with this concept of oil being tied up in our lives in ways that we don't talk about. It’s sort of a value-theoretical approach to climate change and the climate crisis. Something that's impersonal and goes to the root of our entire social metabolic structure.”

In this episode of the Speaking Out of Place podcast, Professor David Palumbo-Liuwelcomes Malcolm Harris back to the show. Previously, he talked with us about his mammoth study, Palo Alto: A History of California, Capitalism, and the World. This time, we are looking not at a history of Capitalism and the World, but our possible futures under the threat of catastrophic climate change. We talk about not only failed policies, but failed perspectives on society, politics, and culture, and focus on a deadly form of Value that has led us to the abyss precisely because it has emanated from a basic rift between humans and the world. It is a rift that Capital has always both fed and exploited, but will end up exhausting a finite resource—the Planet. We talk about what is needed to heal this, what we are up against, and his latest book, What's Left: Three Paths Through the Planetary Crisis.

Malcolm Harris is the author of the national bestseller Palo Alto: A History of California, Capitalism, and the World, a finalist for the Los Angeles Times Book Prize; Kids These Days: The Making of Millennials; and Shit is Fucked Up and Bullshit: History Since the End of History. He was born in Santa Cruz, CA and graduated from the University of Maryland.

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“I think my role and where I'm most comfortable is focusing on the economic harms that the choices this administration is making will limit access to affordable, clean energy. Affordable energy overall, and that they will wind up harming the American people. EDF is standing up and fighting the Trump administration in court every single day. We believe, based on the facts and the law, that we have very good cases and expect to see more wins than not. When the government sets aside all of the things they need to do to land appropriately and just say, "We don't care. This is what Donald Trump wants," there is recourse to step in, intervene, and challenge that. They were sloppy the first time he was president. They're even more brazen now.”

David Kieve has been on the front lines of some of the most critical environmental debates of our time. Before becoming president of EDF Action, the advocacy and political arm of the Environmental Defense Fund, he was in the White House as the director of public engagement at the Council on Environmental Quality. But his journey to the West Wing started on the campaign trail, where he was tasked with a unique role: convincing a broad coalition of voters that Joe Biden was the candidate to tackle the climate crisis. He is a strategist who understands not just the science of climate change but what it takes to implement those policies. We talk about connecting climate policy to everyday costs and the political will required to confront climate change.

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“As I was reading Hooks and Freire, a colleague recommended Adrian Rich's essay "Teaching Language in Open Admissions." It was in that essay that I first read about her experiences teaching at CUNY during open admissions, learning that she taught alongside June Jordan, Audre Lorde, and Toni Cade Bambara. Eventually, that essay led me to their archival teaching materials. I was really excited because I found in those materials concrete teaching methods, things they were doing in their own classrooms that I then started trying in my classrooms as well. I also really liked their educational philosophies, thinking about what it means for college to be free and the fact that they were teaching during this revolutionary era. What would that look like today? What would it mean? What could free college bring to our society? What does free college make possible? All of those things coming together led me to the project.”In this episode of the Speaking Out of Place podcast, Professor David Palumbo-Liu talks with Danica Savonick about her marvelous book entitled Open Admissions: The Poetics and Pedagogy of Toni Cade Bambara, June Jordan, Audre Lorde, and Adrienne Rich in the Era of Free College. This is a riveting and deeply inspiring story of how each of these luminaries in the fields of literature and feminism found their way into the City University of New York in the 1960s, when community activists had forced open what was called the Harvard for the proletariat to admit new classes of Black, brown, and other people of color. Savonick shows through copious archival research how Bambara, Jordan, Lorde, and Rich each came to find radical teaching methods in collaboration with these new students, and how their experiences with this new pedagogy affected their creative and other writing in profound and lasting ways. This is a critical history we can and must learn from today, when federal and state governments have added to the damage and violence done by the neoliberal university. We find exactly the tools and models we need to create spaces for education for liberation both within, but also outside, the Academy.

Danica Savonick is an Associate Professor of English at SUNY Cortland. Her current project focuses on the radical writers and artists who taught at the experimental Livingston College (part of Rutgers University) in the 1970s. Her research has appeared in MELUS, American Literature, Modern Fiction Studies, Radical Teacher, Keywords for Digital Pedagogy in the Humanities, Public Books, and The Chronicle of Higher Ed.

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“The origin was really trying to make sense of that 2016-2017 moment and to ask whether the alt-right was, as we were being told, a return to the 1930s, a kind of awakening of the sleeping beast of white supremacy armed in the streets in the United States. There are many explanations, but I decided to take this kind of curious route in with the distorted readings and reinterpretations of the works of people like Ludwig von Mises and Friedrich Hayek. As a scholar of comparative literature, I wanted to write a revision based on Crack-Up Capitalism.”

In this episode of the Speaking Out of Place podcast, Professor David Palumbo-Liutalks with Quinn Slobodian about his new book, Hayek’s Bastards: Race, Gold, IQ, and the Capitalism of the Far Right. He takes a deep dive into the genesis of a weird and powerful merging of two seemingly different groups the Far Right and neoliberals. Slobodian writes, “as repellent as their politics may be these radical thinkers are not barbarians the gates of neoliberalism but the bastard offspring of that line of thought itself.” They talk about how this meshing is driven by a primitive desire to ward off egalitarianism, difference, democracy, and government that services the common good. The wide-ranging talk ends with addressing DOGE, Trump's tariffs, and yes, the Jeffrey Epstein case.

Quinn Slobodian is a professor of international history at the Frederick S. Pardee School of Global Studies at Boston University. His books, which have been translated into ten languages, include Globalists: The End of Empire and the Birth of Neoliberalism, Crack-Up Capitalism: Market Radicals and the Dream of a World without Democracy, and Hayek’s Bastards: Race, Gold, IQ and the Capitalism of the Far Right . A Guggenheim Fellow for 2025-6, he has been an associate fellow at Chatham House and held residential fellowships at Harvard University and Free University Berlin. Project Syndicate put him on a list of 30 Forward Thinkers and Prospect UK named him one of the World’s 25 Top Thinkers.https://speakingoutofplace.com Bluesky @palumboliu.bsky.social
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“I want people to understand South Asian art as broader than a single gallery or a single artist, but as a larger cultural movement. I want people to encounter art in all parts of their lives, and I’m constantly thinking about new ways to achieve that. I was very aware, as someone launching a South Asia-focused gallery, that this was the cultural dynamic that undergirded the way that most people in the West were thinking about art from the region. Taking that on directly and inviting artists to work with that theme was a really important ground for setting the ethos of the gallery and the types of critical questions we wanted to tackle with the work we were doing.”

My guest today is Rajiv Menon, a gallerist and curator who is carving out a distinctive space in the contemporary art world. Based in Los Angeles, Rajiv Menon holds a PhD from NYU, where he studied global media and visual culture, and he's also a passionate collector of South Asian art. He founded Rajiv Menon Contemporary with a clear mission: to bring artists from South Asia and its diaspora to a wider audience, and to cultivate a new generation of art collectors within these communities. His exhibitions have tackled fascinating themes, from the exuberant and sometimes overwhelming world of the Indian wedding through Viraj Khanna's intricate textile art in Why Did I Say Yes?, to a deep dive into the creativity of Kerala in Three Steps of Land, and a compelling look at how artists transform nostalgia into an aesthetic movement in The Past Is a Country. His work resonates far beyond the gallery walls, aiming to shift our collective culture. He's also recently been honored by the City of Los Angeles for his contributions to the arts. @rajivmenoncontemporary

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In this time of rapid technological change, how do we hold onto our humanity? How do stories, traditions, and community help us find meaning in loss and face an uncertain future? How can science, art, and spirituality open new pathways to understanding ourselves and the human experience?

PAUL SHRIVASTAVA (Co-President of The Club of Rome) discusses the need for a holistic, eco-civilizational future, emphasizing that science, technology, and economics are important but not the whole picture. He urges us to design our own lives and livelihoods to meet diverse ecological futures, and later highlights the importance of embodied, emotional, and spiritual learning as essential to evolving human consciousness in a technologically dominated world.

BAYO AKOMOLAFE (Philosopher, Psychologist, Writer & Founder of the Emergence Network) shares a deeply personal story about the loss of his father, describing how it forced him to mature quickly and become the breadwinner for his family. He reflects on the lessons learned from his children, especially his autistic son, who teaches him about grace, possibility, and futurity.

MICHEL FORST (Human Rights Advocate & the UN Special Rapporteur on Environmental Defenders) explores how theology and meditation serve as ongoing sources of inspiration, shaping his values and career choices in human rights advocacy.

DR. GUY LESCHZINER(Neurologist & Author of The Nocturnal Brain, The Man Who Tasted Words & other books; Consultant Neurologist & Professor at King's College London) analyzes the concept of free will, suggesting that much of what we do is influenced by factors beyond our control. He also discusses the importance of striving to make the world better, the role of sleep and dreams in memory and emotional processing, and the changing nature of mentorship and education.

EIREN CAFFALL (Musician & Author of All the Water in the World) highlights the importance of preserving knowledge and human history, imagining how future generations might rebuild society after catastrophe by holding onto stories, traditions, and the hope of repair.

DR. FERNANDO GARCÍA-MORENO (Neuroscientist, Ikerbasque Research Associate at the Achucarro Basque Centre for Neuroscience) explains that while our brains have not changed biologically for thousands of years, cultural evolution has accelerated. He emphasizes the unique human roles of generating and transmitting knowledge across generations.

NATASHA HAKIMI ZAPATA (Journalist, Author of Another World Is Possible: Lessons for America From Around the Globe) shares her inspiration from the generosity and hope she encounters in others, and describes how connecting with nature—especially bodies of water—reinforces the importance of conservation policies that integrate human communities into ecosystems.

IRVIN WEATHERSBY JR. (Author of In Open Contempt) reflects on the influence of his church upbringing and family, especially his grandmother, on his writing and creative expression. He discusses the impact of music, particularly hip hop, and the importance of lyricism and cultural heritage in shaping his literary voice.

To hear more from each guest, listen to their full interviews.

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Today, we talk about creativity—not as a luxury, but as a national strategy. Sheila Deegan is one of Ireland’s leading cultural architects. Over three decades, she’s shaped the artistic life of Limerick and helped reimagine the role of creativity in civic life. She now serves in the Creative Ireland Programme, a bold cross-government initiative that sees culture as a force for personal and national wellbeing. From children’s creative freedom to climate action, from local festivals to cross-border partnerships, Creative Ireland asks a radical question: what happens when a country places imagination at the heart of public policy? Sheila Deegan joins me now to talk about that question—about culture, community, the role of art in a divided world, and what it means to build something lasting through the machinery of government.

"I left the local environment to pursue Creative Ireland because I really believe in this broader approach. Let's try not to silo things. Let’s try and get people working collaboratively for the benefit of everybody, not just one program over the other. I really hope that young people can hold a sense of social justice as we move forward into a very complicated world. They need to remember that we're all just people and that we all just need each other, whether that's creatively or within the landscape or within the economics."

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“I work in between archeology and anthropology in this field called either historical archeology or contemporary archeology. At the heart of that is the relationship between objects and humans. How do we write about the past or the present in terms of listening to human voices or evidence from things where maybe human voices have been erased or haven't left as much of a mark on the written records as others? Wrapped up with that, though, is always the risk of dehumanization, of the treatment of human lives as if the boundary between a subject and an object is one that is permeable, not in a sort of positive way, but in a more sinister way. There is a long history of people being treated as things.”

In this episode of Speaking Out of Place podcast Professor David Palumbo-Liu talks with Dan Hicks about the present’s responsibility to itself. How do not only monuments, but also the very idea of monumentality, serve to mystify and perpetuate beliefs that maintain social orders that deserve to be strenuously re-evaluated? Archaeologist and anthropologist Dan Hicks traces the development of a particularly virulent strain of monument-worship, that which emerges out of what he calls “militarist realism,” which harnesses technologies of war, particularly colonial, white supremacist war, to build institutions, disciplines, museums in its image in order to permanently maintain a border between those deemed human subjects and the object-worlds of the non-human—which includes racial others. Rather than grant the past immunity, Hicks argues that we need to decide for ourselves what we chose to remember, and what deserves to be forgotten.

Dan Hicks is Professor of Contemporary Archaeology at Oxford University, Curator at the Pitt Rivers Museum, and a Fellow of St Cross College. He has written widely on art, heritage, museums, colonialism, and the material culture of the recent past and the near-present. Dan's books include The Brutish Museums: the Benin Bronzes, colonial violence and cultural restitution (Pluto 2020) and Every Monument Will Fall: a story of remembering and forgetting (Hutchinson Heinemann 2025). Bluesky/Insta: @ProfDanHicks

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"For the last two decades, I've made over 20 films about the environment, starting with oil and carbon emissions. Those films, Kiss the Ground and now Common Ground, talk about how we can stabilize the climate, reverse climate change, grow nutrient-dense food, and help farmers make a profit through biodiversity and regenerative practices and principles.

There's incredible intelligence in nature; it knows how to be resilient. We thought we could do it better, and in trying to mechanize and industrialize the entire system, we created a linear system that doesn’t make sense. We’re growing animals to produce food that we can’t eat so that we can ship it halfway around the world. It’s a system that doesn’t work.

The way to heal, regenerate, stabilize the climate, and reverse climate change is literally one inch and one acre at a time—through communities waking up to the power of soil and biodiversity to sequester carbon for all of us. The oceans can’t handle any more carbon absorption; they’re acidifying and heating up. We need to take the carbon we’ve emitted and put it back into the soil. When we do that, we create thriving ecosystems, biodiversity, and water infiltration, which massively reduces the risks from flooding.

It helps reverse desertification and staves off droughts by retaining water like a sponge. Resiliency comes from having genetic diversity rather than just one of everything."

Today, we explore the work of a filmmaker whose lens is consistently turned toward the most critical issues facing our planet. Rebecca Tickell, in collaboration with her husband Josh Tickell, has created a powerful cinematic catalog of films that are not merely observations, but catalysts for change. They've taken on the complexities of our energy systems, the deep-seated problems within our food supply, and now, with her latest work, Bee: Wild, they explore the essential, fragile, and often unseen world of pollinators.

Their film Kiss the Ground sparked a global conversation about regenerative agriculture, leading to tangible shifts in policy and public understanding. Common Ground continued this exploration, unraveling the intricate web of our food systems. Now, with Bee: Wild, narrated by Ellie Goulding and executive produced by Angelina Jolie,Rebecca brings her characteristic blend of journalistic rigor, personal narrative, and solutions-driven storytelling to the urgent plight of bees, asking us to reconsider our relationship with the natural world.

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“I didn't really appreciate bees until I became a farmer, and then I started to understand how essential bees are for our food. They pollinate 70% of our food, and that feeds 90% of the world. There's a whole world of insects that creates the color in our food; it's what creates the flavor in our food. It's part of our biodiversity, and it's essential for human life on Earth to protect and understand how to protect these bees and pollinators.

If you look at the COP, the Conference of the Parties, they haven't even been talking about soil regeneration at all, and they've been holding these conferences in oil-rich countries, then talking about reducing carbon emissions. Soil has the power, through photosynthesis, to draw down carbon from the atmosphere. It's called biosequestration. It takes that carbon down into the roots, and then it turns it into healthy humus. That is the food for life in the soil. It needs that carbon. And so that is the purpose of plants. They breathe in the carbon and breathe out the oxygen. As we've been watching carbon levels increase in our atmosphere, we've been watching the ocean try to absorb as much of it as it can and become acidified as a result, leading to great losses to our ocean habitat and coral reefs.

We've forgotten that simple tool of the solution that's right beneath our feet called soil health and soil regeneration. Not only does it draw down carbon, it's the only place we can put that teraton of carbon that we've emitted. There's only one place for it, and it's in the soil. So why isn't that the main conversation of every climate conversation? You not only bring the soil back to life, but you are creating nutrient-dense food. You're giving plants the ability to work in symbiosis with the soil that it co-evolved with. That then allows for it not only to be resilient and have a strong immune system, but also to absorb nutrition, which, in turn, we eat and absorb that nutrition. Like I said, we're a reflection of the soil.”

Today, we explore the work of a filmmaker whose lens is consistently turned toward the most critical issues facing our planet. Rebecca Tickell, in collaboration with her husband Josh Tickell, has created a powerful cinematic catalog of films that are not merely observations, but catalysts for change. They've taken on the complexities of our energy systems, the deep-seated problems within our food supply, and now, with her latest work, Bee: Wild, they explore the essential, fragile, and often unseen world of pollinators.

Their film Kiss the Ground sparked a global conversation about regenerative agriculture, leading to tangible shifts in policy and public understanding. Common Ground continued this exploration, unraveling the intricate web of our food systems. Now, with Bee: Wild, narrated by Ellie Goulding and executive produced by Angelina Jolie,Rebecca brings her characteristic blend of journalistic rigor, personal narrative, and solutions-driven storytelling to the urgent plight of bees, asking us to reconsider our relationship with the natural world.

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“If we look at the entire history of the human experience, if you saw some text or you heard some spoken language, you could 100 percent reliably infer that there was a human who created that. Our experience of having that text or that image generated for us is very akin to the experience of a magic trick, and we sort of pre-subconsciously want to attribute some kind of intelligence to what's going on on the other side.

At the core of the work is that sense of curiosity, that sense of joy, that sense of beauty, and that sense of learning. I've been fortunate to have all kinds of strange and interesting experiences, whether that's seeing weird things in the sky over secret military bases in the middle of the Nevada desert, going scuba diving and finding internet cables on the bottom of the ocean, or tracking spy satellites in the sky and being able to predict when they'll appear in a flash against the backdrop of stars. The world around us is extraordinary and embodied, right? It is not on screens, and I’m very privileged to have that be so much a part of my process.”

Trevor Paglen is an artist whose work makes the invisible visible, whether he's photographing secret government sites from miles away or revealing the hidden infrastructures of mass surveillance. He's a geographer by training, and he combines investigative journalism with his art practice to explore the hidden power structures of our time, including military technology and artificial intelligence. His work has been exhibited in major museums around the world, and he's also an award-winning author. His exhibitions, like 'The Black Sites' and 'Limit Tele-photography,’ have earned him critical acclaim, including a MacArthur Fellowship. He's recently opened a new exhibition at Pace Gallery in New York called Cardinals (Jun 26–Aug 15) which delves into the intriguing connections between UFO sightings, AI, and the spread of disinformation.

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“There's a word for this brain rot, right? I think that's very real. There are studies coming out now that are showing that the more and more of our cognitive labor we offload to AI systems, the less creative we become, the less critical we become, and the less of our human faculties for reason we use. There's something sad about that, but there’s also something dangerous about it because that leaves us very open to being manipulated. The surveillance capitalism kind of economy of extracting data from every possible moment of everyday life in order to extract value. The sensor systems that we're surrounded with are not simply passive devices that are recording us; they are increasingly becoming active sculptors of our experience of reality. Playing dirty.

If we look at the entire history of the human experience, if you saw some text or you heard some spoken language, you could 100 percent reliably infer that there was a human who created that. Our experience of having that text or that image generated for us is very akin to the experience of a magic trick, and we sort of pre-subconsciously want to attribute some kind of intelligence to what's going on on the other side.

I’m trying to think about these other media strategies, whether that's UFO photography, psychological operations, magic, or neuroscience, and take them seriously as contributing factors to the changing visual culture. With the collection at Pace Gallery, (New York, Jun 26–Aug 15) it was really just to put those images together and show them. They’re all photographed on film. A lot of them are photographed on instant film. They’re not images that are made with AI; they're not images that are photoshopped. What I really wanted to get at was thinking about the ways in which what we see in an image is very often what we're predisposed to see. I am playing with these mechanics of perception and proposing that as a way of thinking about images now.

At the core of the work is that sense of curiosity, that sense of joy, that sense of beauty, and that sense of learning. I've been fortunate to have all kinds of strange and interesting experiences, whether that's seeing weird things in the sky over secret military bases in the middle of the Nevada desert, going scuba diving and finding internet cables on the bottom of the ocean, or tracking spy satellites in the sky and being able to predict when they'll appear in a flash against the backdrop of stars. The world around us is extraordinary and embodied, right? It is not on screens, and I’m very privileged to have that be so much a part of my process.”

Trevor Paglen is an artist whose work makes the invisible visible, whether he's photographing secret government sites from miles away or revealing the hidden infrastructures of mass surveillance. He's a geographer by training, and he combines investigative journalism with his art practice to explore the hidden power structures of our time, including military technology and artificial intelligence. His work has been exhibited in major museums around the world, and he's also an award-winning author. His exhibitions, like 'The Black Sites' and 'Limit Tele-photography,’ have earned him critical acclaim, including a MacArthur Fellowship. He's recently opened a new exhibition at Pace Gallery in New York called Cardinals, which delves into the intriguing connections between UFO sightings, AI, and the spread of disinformation.

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“I had to become the father of my family very young because my parents divorced when I was 12. My situation was a little bit unusual in that my father kind of disappeared, and I had been making a fair amount of money as a kid, doing commercials and television and film. We needed money, and I kind of became the breadwinner. But I had this amazing world that I had access to, which was the world of the entertainment industry. My mom was supportive of my taking over and saying, "This is, I think, what we need to do." She liked the idea of moving to New York, so we moved to New York when I was 17 with a play that I had gotten. Then she got cancer and became really sick, so I had to take care of her full time. That lasted for about eight years, and then she died when I was 25. That was a rough go. At the same time, I had an amazing other world, and my other world was the world of make-believe and pretend, which I got to participate in on the soaps, with happy families and Christmases, Easters, miracles, love, weddings, and children. The pretend world that I spent a large amount of time in became a great way to balance what was sort of tragic in my real life.”

Our guest today is Cady McClain. You probably know her from her long and celebrated career in daytime television. She is a three-time Emmy® Award-winning actress. She plays Pamela Curtis on CBS’ Beyond the Gates, and is the Artistic Director of Axial Theatre, and her directorial work includes the documentary, Seeing is Believing: Women Direct, a fascinating look at the challenges and triumphs of women behind the camera. Her memoir, Murdering My Youth, is an honest and sometimes difficult book about growing up as a child actor in the spotlight. Her work across all these different art forms—acting, directing, writing, art, and music—all seems to be connected by a commitment to telling true stories, no matter how complicated.

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“I won my first Emmy when I was 21, which was the result of absolutely devoting myself day and night for two years to doing all the scene work. I attended classes simultaneously and did plays until my mother died. I studied with Michael Howard for eight years. Even when I was so tired I couldn't get up to do a scene, he would say, "Get up and do a poem." It helped me enormously; it saved me.

The way I was trained and how I train others is that you know when you’re in the zone. Oh God, it feels so good. It feels like flying. And that's what you want. You want to be so unselfaware that you're on liftoff?

I had to become the father of my family very young because my parents divorced when I was 12. My situation was a little bit unusual in that my father kind of disappeared, and I had been making a fair amount of money as a kid, doing commercials and television and film. We needed money, and I kind of became the breadwinner. But I had this amazing world that I had access to, which was the world of the entertainment industry. My mom was supportive of my taking over and saying, "This is, I think, what we need to do." She liked the idea of moving to New York, so we moved to New York when I was 17 with a play that I had gotten. Then she got cancer and became really sick, so I had to take care of her full time. That lasted for about eight years, and then she died when I was 25. That was a rough go. At the same time, I had an amazing other world, and my other world was the world of make-believe and pretend, which I got to participate in on the soaps, with happy families and Christmases, Easters, miracles, love, weddings, and children. The pretend world that I spent a large amount of time in became a great way to balance what was sort of tragic in my real life.”

Our guest today is Cady McClain. You probably know her from her long and celebrated career in daytime television. She is a three-time Emmy® Award-winning actress. She plays Pamela Curtis on CBS’ Beyond the Gates, and is the Artistic Director of Axial Theatre, and her directorial work includes the documentary, Seeing is Believing: Women Direct, a fascinating look at the challenges and triumphs of women behind the camera. Her memoir, Murdering My Youth, is an honest and sometimes difficult book about growing up as a child actor in the spotlight. Her work across all these different art forms—acting, directing, writing, art, and music—all seems to be connected by a commitment to telling true stories, no matter how complicated.

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“We're living in a fascinating time, and unfortunately, to an extent, Europe and, very much so, North America are trying to hold onto the past while other parts of the world, like China, Taiwan, Korea, and Japan, are looking to the future. As an Italian citizen and an English citizen, I feel that we’ve left ourselves behind and that others are taking leaps forward. This isn't just about climate science; it’s about big geopolitics. It's about who wins the power battle over the dominant economy, economic thinking, and currencies. Do we have a reserve currency in the petrodollar? All these things are now being questioned in 2025. We're in an extraordinary period of history.”

For decades, the conversation around climate change often felt abstract, a distant threat. But what happens when that threat collides with the very concrete world of finance, with investments, and with the bottom line? Mark Campanale has been at the forefront of this critical intersection for over two decades. He's a veteran of sustainable finance, having helped launch some of the earliest responsible investment funds. But it's his work with the Carbon Tracker Initiative that has truly reshaped how we understand the economic risks of a fossil fuel-dependent future. Carbon Tracker, an independent financial think tank, introduced concepts like the "carbon bubble" and "stranded assets"—terms that have not only become central to the divestment movement but are now indispensable for investors and regulators trying to navigate the path to decarbonization. Mark Campanale and the Carbon Tracker Initiative have made it impossible to ignore the financial implications of a warming planet.

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“Carbon Tracker is a non-profit financial think tank focused on change and the energy transition. I set it up because I spent 20 years working in the financial world, and I noticed that a lot of coal, oil, and gas projects, even with all the evidence we know about climate change, were getting financed through banks and the stock market. It was almost as if investors were completely disregarding what climate change was going to do within our lifetime. What I wanted to do was challenge that, challenge the way people think, and challenge the financial operators, the bankers, stock exchange regulators, and investors to think about what climate change was going to do and what we could do about it. We're saying to the owners of these companies, the shareholders, ‘Why don't you think about what the world will look like in 50 years, and why are you putting these young people's pensions into coal, which we know is going to destroy the planet?’ ”

For decades, the conversation around climate change often felt abstract, a distant threat. But what happens when that threat collides with the very concrete world of finance, with investments, and with the bottom line? Mark Campanale has been at the forefront of this critical intersection for over two decades. He's a veteran of sustainable finance, having helped launch some of the earliest responsible investment funds. But it's his work with the Carbon Tracker Initiative that has truly reshaped how we understand the economic risks of a fossil fuel-dependent future. Carbon Tracker, an independent financial think tank, introduced concepts like the "carbon bubble" and "stranded assets"—terms that have not only become central to the divestment movement but are now indispensable for investors and regulators trying to navigate the path to decarbonization. Mark Campanale and the Carbon Tracker Initiative have made it impossible to ignore the financial implications of a warming planet.

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“We as humans can destroy things in a couple of years that have taken thousands or even millions of years to form. So in the snap of a finger, we can destroy so much work. That's an observation I’ve seen in all biomes, and it's pretty scary. On the other hand, nature regenerates pretty fast. It heals itself. If humans help this healing process, it can go even faster.”

Louis De Jaeger has spent years traveling the world, witnessing firsthand the decline of nature. He is an eco-entrepreneur, a landscape designer, co-founder of the Food Forest Institute, and a leading voice in the regenerative agriculture and food forest movements. He’s founded numerous ventures aimed at creating positive impact and has created over 100 food forest sites around the world. His new book, SOS: Save Our Soils: How regenerative food and farming will save your health and the planet, asks us to consider every meal as a vote for either destruction or regeneration.

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“The Earth started as one big rock, and soil did not exist. Without soil, you can't really grow trees or any crops whatsoever. We are depleting soils super fast, and it is predicted that in less than 25 years, 90% of our soils will be degraded. We as humans, we can destroy things in a couple of years that have taken thousands or even millions of years to form. On the other hand, nature regenerates pretty fast. It heals itself. If humans help this healing process, it can go even faster.”

Louis De Jaeger has spent years traveling the world, witnessing firsthand the decline of nature. He is an eco-entrepreneur, a landscape designer, co-founder of the Food Forest Institute, and a leading voice in the regenerative agriculture and food forest movements. He’s founded numerous ventures aimed at creating positive impact and has created over 100 food forest sites around the world. His new book, SOS: Save Our Soils: How regenerative food and farming will save your health and the planet, asks us to consider every meal as a vote for either destruction or regeneration.

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“Abolishing Silicon Valley means freeing the development of technology from a system that will always relegate it to a subordinate role, that of entrenching existing power relations. It means designing a new system that isn't deluged in the logic of the bucket. It means liberating our worlds from the illegitimate ring of capital. Perhaps this sounds unfair to capital. Perhaps I sound like I'm not grateful enough for everything that capital has given us, but we don't owe capital anything; the things we attribute to capital were built by workers.

People can labor and sometimes die in a process. Their contributions are unrecognized in death as in life. So don't thank capital. It doesn't deserve our gratitude, and it doesn't need it. Thank the people who created everything that capital always takes credit for. Capital is a means of accounting for wealth ownership, not its creation. And that means it's perpetually shrouded in a fundamental untruth; we can leap the swamp of capital behind and start over with something new. “

In this episode on Speaking Out of Place podcast Professor David Palumbo-Liu talks with Wendy Liu. Ever since its publication, Abolish Silicon Valley—How to Liberate Technology from Capitalism has proven to be more urgent and insightful. Today, he talks with author Wendy Liu about how developments like AI and LLM, further erosions of intellectual property, and increased invasions of privacy make the case for abolishing Silicon Valley even more important. They talk about how abolition is critical at a time when more and more the private sector has come to eviscerate the public good. Turning to the genocide in Gaza, they discuss the ways Capital has enlisted technology in deadly and horrific manners. They end with a meditation on the commons and how one can live with fewer commodities and find value in common projects to make life more valuable and worthwhile outside of the logic of the market.

Wendy Liu is the author of Abolish Silicon Valley: How to Liberate Technology From Capitalism, a memoir/manifesto about the tech industry from the perspective of a former believer. She lives in San Francisco and is working on a novel.

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“For us, I think it really is about trust and commitments, and I don't think that has necessarily changed over the years. As we work on that, obviously, we are very much invested in how we can engage an audience and spark the curiosity that people are looking for. The most important thing often is how we can spark that curiosity in ourselves. As a way of working, which I think is the most important framework for an institution, the institution should constantly want to learn and evolve, and it isn't a static place. Particularly coming from the opportunity of not being a collecting institution, we are ever-evolving and ever-changing.”

Nicola Lees is truly pushing the boundaries of what a museum can be. Since 2020, she has been director of the Aspen Art Museum, a non-collecting, artist-founded institution dedicated to experimentation and supporting the most innovative voices in contemporary art. Under her direction, the AAM has just unveiled an ambitious, decade-long initiative called AIR Aspen. From July 26–August 1, 2025, AIR isn't just another program; it's the first artist-led global summit, a bold undertaking that will bring together artists, cultural leaders, policymakers, and influencers for yearly talks, performances, workshops, and an annual retreat. It’s designed to explore the profound role of art in addressing the big questions of our time, from AI to how we relate to one another. The inaugural theme, "Life As No One Knows It," promises to be a deeply engaging exploration of what it means to be alive in an era of rapid technological and environmental change, and it will feature an extraordinary roster of creatives whose work transcends traditional disciplines, including Francis Kéré, Paul Chan, Aria Dean, Glenn Ligon, and Maya Lin.
Before her tenure in Aspen, Nicola Lees made her mark as the director and curator of New York University’s 80WSE and as a curator for Frieze Projects at Frieze London. Today, we’ll delve into her philosophy of art, leadership, and the transformative power of this new initiative.

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“As a writer, I do believe that art and literature in and of themselves are important. I'm going to keep on writing novels, and one of the most important reasons why is because, as you mentioned, language is crucial. Part of the way that states and authoritarian regimes exercise their power is not just through physical violence and intimidation, but through a maltreatment of language itself. Trump is a perfect example of this. Everything that comes out of his mouth in terms of language is horrifying for anybody with any sensitivity to language. The excesses of his language in terms of insults and hyperbolic praise for his fans are perfect examples of how language is used by an authoritarian and by the state to obfuscate reality and intimidate people. That language is ugly from my perspective, and there is something about being committed to literature and to art that awakens us to the importance of beauty.

I think about what John Keats, the poet, said: beauty is truth, truth beauty. You can't separate these kinds of things. If you're committed to the beauty of language, you're also committed to the idea that language has a relationship to truth. You can see that authoritarians don't have a relationship to truth. They have a relationship to the abuse of truth and to lying, not only in content but in the form of their language as well. There is a crucial role for writers here in our relationship to language because language is one of the most crucial ways that authoritarianism extends its power. What I've discovered as a writer is that fear is a good indicator that there is a truth. To speak the truth in a society is oftentimes an act that requires some courage.”

Viet Thanh Nguyen has spent much of his life exploring the stories we tell—and the stories we erase—about war, migration, and memory. His 2015 debut novel The Sympathizer, about a communist double agent in the aftermath of the Vietnam War, won the Pulitzer Prize and a long list of other major literary awards. In 2024, The Sympathizer was adapted into a critically acclaimed HBO series directed by Park Chan-wook.He followed it with The Committed, and his latest work, To Save and to Destroy: Writing as an Other, a meditation on writing, power, and the politics of representation.

Nguyen is also the author of Nothing Ever Dies, a finalist for the National Book Award in nonfiction, and the short story collection The Refugees. He’s edited collections like The Displaced: Refugee Writers on Refugee Lives, and most recently the Library of America volume for Maxine Hong Kingston, who was once his teacher.

He was born in Vietnam, came to the U.S. as a refugee, and is now a professor at the University of Southern California. He’s received Guggenheim and MacArthur fellowships, honorary doctorates, and has been named a Chevalier by the French Ministry of Culture. Today, we’ll talk about his books, America’s forever wars, and how the act of writing—across fiction, memoir, and scholarship—can become both a form of resistance and a way of making sense of being, as he puts it in his memoir “A Man of Two Faces.”

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“It's a complicated time to think about how we can slow down, be still, and bring a brilliant group of people together to do something that feels purposeful and can be productive. It's a moment where things are moving so fast. When I brought up the idea of a hinge generation, I think it's impossible to know how we will look back and reflect on this time and these moments. We are very invested in enabling people to build new relationships. What we've found from these past gatherings in Aspen is that those are the things people still talk about from 40, 50, or 60 years ago. You were also asking about a relationship with the environment. I think Maya Lin, who is coming to give a keynote lecture, is someone who is very invested in that conversation.

We are also working with the Serpentine Gallery and Hans Ulrich Obrist on the keynote lectures. Francis Kéré is also coming to talk about the sustainability of his architectural practice and how that navigates the world differently. We're also working with Storefront for Architecture, who have done this brilliant swamp project for the last two years. This year, there is a real emphasis on the relationship between the question we have posed for the retreat, which is fundamentally about our relationship with technology and identifying our relationship with the world and how we want to be present in the moment.

Nicola Lees is truly pushing the boundaries of what a museum can be. Since 2020, she has been director of the Aspen Art Museum, a non-collecting, artist-founded institution dedicated to experimentation and supporting the most innovative voices in contemporary art. Under her direction, the AAM has just unveiled an ambitious, decade-long initiative called AIR Aspen. From July 26–August 1, 2025, AIR isn't just another program; it's the first artist-led global summit, a bold undertaking that will bring together artists, cultural leaders, policymakers, and influencers for yearly talks, performances, workshops, and an annual retreat. It’s designed to explore the profound role of art in addressing the big questions of our time, from AI to how we relate to one another. The inaugural theme, "Life As No One Knows It," promises to be a deeply engaging exploration of what it means to be alive in an era of rapid technological and environmental change, and it will feature an extraordinary roster of creatives whose work transcends traditional disciplines, including Francis Kéré, Paul Chan, Aria Dean, Glenn Ligon, and Maya Lin.
Before her tenure in Aspen, Nicola Lees made her mark as the director and curator of New York University’s 80WSE and as a curator for Frieze Projects at Frieze London. Today, we’ll delve into her philosophy of art, leadership, and the transformative power of this new initiative.

“For us, I think it really is about trust and commitments, and I don't think that has necessarily changed over the years. As we work on that, obviously, we are very much invested in how we can engage an audience and spark the curiosity that people are looking for. The most important thing often is how we can spark that curiosity in ourselves. As a way of working, which I think is the most important framework for an institution, the institution should constantly want to learn and evolve, and it isn't a static place. Particularly coming from the opportunity of not being a collecting institution, we are ever-evolving and ever-changing.”

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“I guess the book was about giving hope because I realized how much we could do together. I believe that ordinary people are the ones bringing changes here. I believe that the communities gathering together – for example, I am seeing that in this country around the protection of rivers – are the ones that will mark the change. It's not going to come from above; it's going to come from below, up. We all have a role. Working for the protection of what we love the most will make you happy. So get into a positive mindset. Learn all you can. Be part of things that make you feel positive. You will see how you will find your way, and there is no place for feeling disempowered. This is the moment where you should feel very powerful because it is us who are going to make the future of this Earth.”

Monica Feria-Tinta is a British-Peruvian barrister specialising in Public International Law. She has been called one of ‘the most daring, innovative and creative lawyers’ in the United Kingdom, and was shortlisted for “Barrister of the Year” at The Lawyers’ Awards 2020 and at Chambers and Partners UK Bar Awards 2023 for her work in addressing climate change and environmental degradation. In 2020, she acted before the Constitutional Court of Ecuador in Los Cedros case, the first ‘Rights of Nature’ case in the world. In September 2022 her work as Counsel secured a win in the Torres Strait Islanders case, a landmark moment in which the UN Human Rights Committee found a Sovereign state responsible, for the first time in history, for lack of action in addressing climate change. She is the author of A Barrister for the Earth: Ten Cases of Hope for Our Future.

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“So I think that part of colonialism for Indigenous peoples has been this idea that Indigenous peoples aren't thinking peoples and that we don't have thought on a kind of systemic level. One of the things that I was interested in doing is intervening in that because I think Indigenous people have a lot of beautiful, very intellectual, theoretical contributions to make to the world. A lot of our theory is encoded in story, but a lot of our theory is also encoded in land-based practice. You can't learn about it from reading books or from going to lectures. You have to really be out on the land with elders for long periods of time.”

In this episode on Speaking Out of Place podcast Professor David Palumbo-Liu talks with Leanne Betasamosake Simpson about her new book,Theory of Water. Theory of Water is a rich, complex, and deeply personal reflection on world-making and life-giving processes best captured in the fluidity of water as it circulates through all our bodies and the planet. It is a largely collective project that enlists our listening and love, and helps us face the violence of all forms of dominance, enclosure, and containment. We are especially gifted to have the chance to listen to one of the songs from Leanne’s album, Theory of Ice, and have her comment on it and the relation of her music to her writing. This is a particularly special episode of Speaking Out of Place.

Leanne Betasamosake Simpson is a Michi Saagiig Nishnaabeg scholar, writer, and musician. She is the author of eight previous books, including the novel Noopiming: A Cure for White Ladies, which was short listed for the Dublin Literary prize and the Governor General’s award for fiction. Leanne’s album, Theory of Ice, released by You’ve Changed Records in 2021 and short-listed for the Polaris Prize and she was the 2021 winner of the Prism Prize’s Willie Dunn Award. Her latest project Theory of Water was published by Knopf Canada/Haymarket books in the spring of 2025. Leanne is a member of Alderville First Nation.

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“What I've discovered as a writer is that fear is a good indicator that there is a truth. To speak the truth in a society is oftentimes an act that requires some courage. Those processes of being an other for me in the United States were obviously very fundamental to shaping who I am as a person and as a writer. It was very difficult to undergo, but to become a writer who could talk about those issues was also a lot of fun. Writing The Sympathizer was a lot of fun, and I hope that the novel was enjoyable and humorous to read as well, despite its very serious politics. When I wrote The Committed, I also had a lot of fun as an outsider to France. In writing the novel itself, The Committed, there was a lot of humor, satire, and these kinds of tools to confront the tragedy of othering. This is very important to me as literary and political devices. I think I could do that in both The Sympathizer and The Committed because I had a lot of distance from the time periods that those novels described. My challenge right now is to try to find my sense of humor in describing what the United States is undergoing and doing to other countries, its own immigrants, and its own people of color, and minorities in the present. That's proving to be a little more challenging at this moment.

The whole power of the state is geared towards dividing and conquering, whether it's domestically within a state or whether it's exercising power overseas, including things like colonization, which is all about dividing and conquering. In the face of that, to engage in expansive solidarity and capacious grief is to work against the mechanisms of colonialism, militarism, and the state. It's enormously difficult, which is why it has to be rebuilt from every generation, as every generation is subject to the power of the state and its ideologies and mythologies. I think the lessons that I've extracted from this book, To Save and to Destroy, where I talk about expansive solidarity and capacious grief, are lessons that have been learned by other people before me, but lessons that I had to learn for myself and to put into my own words how I came to those lessons.”

Viet Thanh Nguyenhas spent much of his life exploring the stories we tell—and the stories we erase—about war, migration, and memory. His 2015 debut novel The Sympathizer, about a communist double agent in the aftermath of the Vietnam War, won the Pulitzer Prize and a long list of other major literary awards. In 2024, The Sympathizer was adapted into a critically acclaimed HBO series directed by Park Chan-wook.He followed it with The Committed, and his latest work, To Save and to Destroy: Writing as an Other, a meditation on writing, power, and the politics of representation.

Nguyen is also the author of Nothing Ever Dies, a finalist for the National Book Award in nonfiction, and the short story collection The Refugees. He’s edited collections like The Displaced: Refugee Writers on Refugee Lives, and most recently the Library of America volume for Maxine Hong Kingston, who was once his teacher.

He was born in Vietnam, came to the U.S. as a refugee, and is now a professor at the University of Southern California. He’s received Guggenheim and MacArthur fellowships, honorary doctorates, and has been named a Chevalier by the French Ministry of Culture. Today, we’ll talk about his books, America’s forever wars, and how the act of writing—across fiction, memoir, and scholarship—can become both a form of resistance and a way of making sense of being, as he puts it in his memoir “A Man of Two Faces.”

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“Poetry is the prince of the literary arts to me. It's at the very top because it's language refined to its apex of memorability. I am interested in poetry as memorability and poetry as something you live by. These are the words you live by. These words stay in your brain and guide your life. That's what I am interested in. My memoir slash autofiction is called Borges and Me, and as you know, it's a story of my time in 1970 when my best friend Billy was drafted for the Vietnam War, and so was I. He went to Vietnam, and I went to Scotland to hide out and do my graduate work. I spent nearly seven years in Scotland, but I certainly spent the next five years definitely in Scotland. I was there before as an undergraduate for a bit, too. During that time, Billy was killed in Vietnam, and I was a nervous wreck. My memoir talks about my depression, my anxieties, and then, through my friend Alastair Reid, I met Borges, the great Argentine writer. We went on a little road trip through the Highlands, and this conversation with Borges really restored me back to myself and what was important in life. I felt that I owed a huge amount to that contact with Borges… I was lucky that suddenly, out of nowhere, came a wonderful director-producer named Mark Turtletaub. He had read my book and loved it, and he approached me. We had a conversation, and he said, ‘Look, I want to make this movie.’ So off we went.”

It’s a real pleasure today to welcome a writer whose voice has been a guiding force in American letters for decades. Jay Pariniis the author of acclaimed biographies of literary giants like John Steinbeck, Robert Frost, William Faulkner, and Gore Vidal—as well as an illuminating portrait of Jesus in The Human Face of God. He’s also a celebrated poet, novelist, essayist, and teacher whose work reflects a lifelong devotion to the arts, the humanities, and the power of language to tell the truth, gently. From his poetry to his prose, Jay's writing brings rare insight and deep compassion to the page. He doesn’t just study his subjects—he inhabits them, helps us hear their voices, and see the world through their eyes. And of course, he’s one of the few people who can say they've gotten into the heads of both Jesus and Gore Vidal...and lived to tell the tale.

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“I like young people to know that they're extremely powerful. So I'm one person, but I think I always had this positive idea about my role. You cannot let anyone tell you what limitations are there, so you shouldn't feel limited by anyone telling you this is as far as you can go, or this is what you can do. I think only you know about that, and I think you start step by step. When I did the first case, I learned some things. Then was the next case. When the time to learn comes, learn with all your might because that's gold. It's a moment in life when you have the time to actually do that. Get informed. People who are into Googling everything should open up their searches, go out there, and learn in a different way. Don't hold back.

I guess the book was about giving hope because I realized how much we could do together. If a person can manage to argue and make a major impact in the way we are understanding treaties in human rights or other things, imagine what could be if every single person is in their own place in some field, with that alertness and synced in the same way. I believe that ordinary people are the ones bringing changes here. I believe that the communities gathering together – for example, I am seeing that in this country around the protection of rivers – are the ones that will mark the change. It's not going to come from above; it's going to come from below, up. And that means all of us. We all have a role.

To the young people, I would say you have the right to joy, and you have the right to be happy. Working for the protection of what we love the most will make you happy. So get into a positive mindset. Learn all you can. Be part of things that make you feel positive. You will see how you will find your way, and there is no place for feeling disempowered. This is the moment where you should feel very powerful because it is us who are going to make the future of this Earth.”

Monica Feria-Tinta is a British-Peruvian barrister specialising in Public International Law. She has been called one of ‘the most daring, innovative and creative lawyers’ in the United Kingdom, and was shortlisted for “Barrister of the Year” at The Lawyers’ Awards 2020 and at Chambers and Partners UK Bar Awards 2023 for her work in addressing climate change and environmental degradation. In 2020, she acted before the Constitutional Court of Ecuador in Los Cedros case, the first ‘Rights of Nature’ case in the world. In September 2022 her work as Counsel secured a win in the Torres Strait Islanders case, a landmark moment in which the UN Human Rights Committee found a Sovereign state responsible, for the first time in history, for lack of action in addressing climate change. She is the author of A Barrister for the Earth: Ten Cases of Hope for Our Future.

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In this episode on Speaking Out of Place podcast Professor David Palumbo-Liu talks with Aziz Rana about his brilliant and bracing article recently published in New Left Review, “Constitutional Collapse.” They talk about how the Trump administration and its enablers are shredding a liberal “compact” which was established in in the 1930s through the Sixties and extending an imperial presidency abroad to an authoritarian one domestically. They discuss the current constitutional crisis, but also the need for, and manifestations of, a politics which is at once a genuine membership organization and social community. As Aziz Rana powerfully argues, “its aim should be to transform the world people organically experience.” This is exactly the analysis and message so many of us need in these dark times.

“In the US, we have this idea that exists as a kind of popular cultural sense. The country has basically had the same constitution—a document ratified in the 1780s, and it has really been in effect since then. However, one of the things that's distinctive about the US Constitution is that it is perhaps the hardest in the world to formally amend. It is incredibly difficult to change the actual terms of the text, even during times when we've had pretty profound changes to the language. Here, we can think about the Reconstruction period with the passage of the 13th, 14th, and 15th amendments.”

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“ It's a really dangerous time we're living through, and I do think that when we talk about these progressive policies, a huge problem in the US is that we still have a lot of stigma left over from the Cold War that keeps us from really great ideas because they're branded as socialist or communist. And I’ve seen, in the time I've been a journalist for the past 15 years, how that stigma has slowly faded. And you see that younger people are more and more interested in these ideas, whether or not they're considered socialist.”

Natasha Hakimi Zapata is an award-winning journalist, translator, and university lecturer based in Europe. She is the author of Another World Is Possible: Lessons for America From Around the Globe.Her articles appear regularly in The Nation, In These Times, and the Los Angeles Review of Books. She is the former foreign editor of Truthdig and has received several Southern California Journalism and National Arts & Entertainment Journalism awards, most recently in 2024 for her work as a foreign correspondent.

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In this episode of the Speaking Out of Place podcast, Professor David Palumbo-Liu talks with Lindsay Weinberg and Robert Ovetz about the use of Artificial Intelligence in higher education. Under the guise of “personalizing” education and increasing efficiency, universities are increasingly sold on AI as a cure to their financial ills as public funds dry up and college applications drop. Rather than maintain that education is an essential public good that needs broad support, universities are looking to technology in ways that are changing the nature of education in dangerous and destructive ways. As Lindsay writes in the book, Smart University: “Higher education is becoming increasingly synonymous with digital surveillance in the United States. Advanced network infrastructure, internet- connected devices and sensors, radio frequency identification (RFID), data analytics, and artificial intelligence (AI) are being celebrated as a means of ushering in the age of “smart universities,” one where institutions canrun their services more efficiently and strengthen the quality of higher education using digital tools. However, as this book demonstrates, these tools have a darker side. They allow public universities to respond to and perpetuate corporate logics of austerity, use student data to reduce risk of financial investment in the face of dwindling public resources, and track student behavior to encourage compliance with institutional metrics of success. Surveillance of student behavior forms the foundation of the smart university, often in ways that prove harmful to students— particularly those who are already marginalized within the academy.

They talk about these issues and attach them to critical issues of labor—everything from the outsourcing of the most dangerous work to laborers in the Global South, to the way university workers at all levels are subordinated to the logic that drives AI. They end with a discussion of what we can and should do about it.

Dr. Lindsay Weinberg is a clinical associate professor in the Honors College at Purdue University, and the Director of the Tech Justice Lab. Her research and teaching are at the intersection of science and technology studies, media studies, and feminist studies, with an emphasis on the social and ethical impacts of digital technology. She is interested in the constitutive role that history and unequal power relations play in shaping the design,

Robert Ovetz, Ph.D. is a Senior Lecturer in Political Science and teaches non-profit management and labor relations in the Master of Public Administration program at San José State University. He is the author and editor of four books, including We the Elites (Pluto, 2022), and the forthcoming Rebels for the System: NGOs and Capitalism (2025 Haymarket Press).

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What happens when the state, with the pretext of protecting public safety, can detain indefinitely certain individuals whose dreams seem to indicate they may be capable of committing a crime? Set in a precarious world where sleep-enhancing devices and algorithms provide the tools and formulae for making one’s unconscious a witness to one’s possible waking life, this novel touches on a myriad of political, philosophical, and moral concerns as they particularly connect to issues of gender, race, ethnicity, privacy, and the security state.

In this episode of Speaking Out of Place podcast Professor David Palumbo-Liu talks with award-winning novelist Laila Lalami about her new novel, The Dream Hotel. Laila Lalami is the author of five books, including The Moor’s Account, which won the American Book Award, the Arab-American Book Award, and the Hurston / Wright Legacy Award. It was on the longlist for the Booker Prize and was a finalist for the Pulitzer Prize in Fiction. Her most recent novel, The Other Americans, was a national bestseller, won the Joyce Carol Oates Prize, and was a finalist for the National Book Award in Fiction. Her books have been translated into twenty languages. Her essays have appeared in the Los Angeles Times, the Washington Post, The Nation, Harper’s, the Guardian, and the New York Times. She has been awarded fellowships from the British Council, the Fulbright Program, the Guggenheim Foundation, and the Radcliffe Institute at Harvard University. She lives in Los Angeles.

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“I'm hopeful for revolution. I'm optimistic. I want radical change. I think there's such a disinterest in education in America that it is sickening. I think we are repeating history. We are going through a cycle of fascism and greed, and I think we're going to see a lot of states collapse. As a result of that, I think people are going to be forced back to their primal needs and concerns, but I think they're going to be forced to think about what makes us human. How do we become more human? Because we've lost that. We've given it up to technology. How can we figure out what makes us a really powerful species again?”

Irvin Weathersby Jr. is a Brooklyn-based writer and professor from New Orleans. He is the author of In Open Contempt: Confronting White Supremacy in Art and Public Space. His writing has been featured in LitHub, Guernica, Esquire, The Atlantic, EBONY, and elsewhere. He has earned an MFA from The New School, an MA from Morgan State University, and a BA from Morehouse College. He has received fellowships and awards from the Voices of Our Nations Arts Foundation, the Research Foundation of CUNY, the Bread Loaf Writers' Conference, the American Council of Learned Societies, and the Mellon Foundation.

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We are working in the lab to understand this moment in development, which is called phylotypic. This is something that has been known for over a hundred years. When you see many vertebrate embryos at this early embryonic time point, all embryos look very, very similar. We are extrapolating these ideas to the brain. We have seen that at this time point, the phylotypic period, all brains of these species are very simple but very closely related. We share the same features with a fish or with a gecko or with any other mammalian species at this early time point. We have the same brain with the same genes active and the same cell types involved in it.

Dr. Fernando García-Moreno is a neuroscientist whose work explores the deep evolutionary roots of the brain—and what they reveal about identity, complexity, and even the future of technology. From the thalamus to the phylotypic brain, his research uncovers how our most fundamental brain structures co-evolve—and how they shape, and limit, the way we think. As we navigate an age shaped by AI and rapid innovation, Fernando brings a powerful lens: one that reminds us where we come from—and what evolution may still be writing into our futures. He is an Ikerbasque Research Associate at the Achucarro Basque Centre for Neuroscience.

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“One of the biggest symbols of America is Mount Rushmore. This monument, right? But I think most people fail to realize where it's located and why it's located there. Even more importantly, who did it? It's on a sacred Native American mountain, a place that was central to their creation stories. But then you think about who did it, and it was a Klansman. The guy who sculpted Mount Rushmore was a Klansman. People were like, "Wait, really?" Like, how is that a thing? But it seeps into our understanding and our embrace of white supremacy. This whole notion of us using Mount Rushmore as a metric of excellence is really sad. We are honoring slave owners and people who viciously killed natives, and those who pillage other lands in the name of capitalism. That's what America is, I guess.

I think there's such a disinterest in education in America that it is sickening. We can't even agree on facts. It's up to states' rights to decide. Really? States can say that this is true in one state, but it's not true in another? Although these states are united, it's very bizarre. I'm hopeful for revolution. I'm optimistic. I want radical change. I think we are repeating history. We are going through a cycle of fascism and greed, and I think we're going to see a lot of states collapse. As a result of that, I think people are going to be forced back to their primal needs and concerns, but I think they're going to be forced to think about what makes us human. How do we become more human? Because we've lost that. We've given it up to technology. How can we figure out what makes us a really powerful species again?”

Irvin Weathersby Jr. is a Brooklyn-based writer and professor from New Orleans. He is the author of In Open Contempt: Confronting White Supremacy in Art and Public Space. His writing has been featured in LitHub, Guernica, Esquire, The Atlantic, EBONY, and elsewhere. He has earned an MFA from The New School, an MA from Morgan State University, and a BA from Morehouse College. He has received fellowships and awards from the Voices of Our Nations Arts Foundation, the Research Foundation of CUNY, the Bread Loaf Writers' Conference, the American Council of Learned Societies, and the Mellon Foundation.

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“I would encourage you, as I do if you're an actor, to know your own equipment, know your own psychology, and use the great teachers that are synthesized in my favorite teacher's book, Moss, who I studied with later. There is a book called Intent to Live that distills down Uta Hagen, Stella Adler, Bobby Lewis, and Stanislavski. The great teachers at the Group Theatre believed that the method needed to be altered to be constructive rather than destructive to artists.

David Milch's mind is so singular because he uses language in a way that defines character. That's what all good writers do: use language to get to the heart of something. He would use malapropisms to make up words, and Milch loved playing with that. As someone who played the love interest of such a unique character as Andy Sipowicz, I found it fascinating.

Through Sylvia and David Milch's understanding, his wife humanized him. Sipowicz was portrayed as an addict, a very flawed human who had many addictions. David Milch is now suffering from Alzheimer's, so we won't get his words again. However, the words that he has to offer are timeless because he studied Robert Penn Warren and had many mentors throughout his vast literary education. That is key. I love speaking Noël Coward’s words. As a bon vivant, he wrote musically, to charm us and amuse us. So going and reading Noël Coward is important for actors to learn those cadences and the musicality of a certain era.

Of course, Shakespeare comes to mind. I also think of the female playwrights who delight me now, whether it's Caryl Churchill. She has that singular mind and plays with gender so well, challenging gender norms. Seeing ‘Cloud Nine’ when I was in college blew my mind open because men were playing women and women were playing men. Of course, Shakespeare was doing it too, but her work felt more intimate; it was in a small theater. That’s another thing I encourage actors and audiences to do: go see things in small theaters. See it up close because that will excite you and help you learn the craft.”

Sharon Lawrence is an acclaimed actress best known for her Emmy-nominated, SAG Award-winning role as ADA Sylvia Costas on NYPD Blue. She has delivered memorable performances in Desperate Housewives, Monk, Law & Order: SVU, Criminal Minds, Shameless, and Queen Sugar. On stage, she’s earned praise for roles in The Shot (a one-woman play about the owner/publisher of the Washington Post, Katharine Graham), Orson’s Shadow, and A Song at Twilight. Shestarred in Broadway revivals of Cabaret, Chicago, and Fiddler on the Roof. Her recent work includes the neo-Western series Joe Pickett, opposite Michael Dorman, and the films Solace with Anthony Hopkins and The Bridge Partner. Lawrence is also a dedicated advocate, serving on the boards of the SAG-AFTRA Foundation, WeForShe, and Heal the Bay, and is a former Chair of the Women In Film Foundation.

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“That transformation was key to my next step as an artist, to knowing that's what acting is. It isn't just posing; it isn't just being a version of yourself in a way that was free. Performing wasn't just performing; it was transforming. I think that artists find that in many different ways, and as actors, there are many ways into that.

I would encourage you, as I do if you're an actor, to know your own equipment, know your own psychology, and use the great teachers that are synthesized in my favorite teacher's book, Moss, who I studied with later. There is a book called Intent to Live that distills down Uta Hagen, Stella Adler, Bobby Lewis, and Stanislavski. The great teachers at the Group Theatre believed that the method needed to be altered to be constructive rather than destructive to artists.

David Milch's mind is so singular because he uses language in a way that defines character. That's what all good writers do: use language to get to the heart of something. He would use malapropisms to make up words, and Milch loved playing with that. As someone who played the love interest of such a unique character as Andy Sipowicz, I found it fascinating.

Through Sylvia and David Milch's understanding, his wife humanized him. Sipowicz was portrayed as an addict, a very flawed human who had many addictions. David Milch is now suffering from Alzheimer's, so we won't get his words again. However, the words that he has to offer are timeless because he studied Robert Penn Warren and had many mentors throughout his vast literary education. That is key. I love speaking Noël Coward’s words. As a bon vivant, he wrote musically, to charm us and amuse us. So going and reading Noël Coward is important for actors to learn those cadences and the musicality of a certain era.

Of course, Shakespeare comes to mind. I also think of the female playwrights who delight me now, whether it's Caryl Churchill. She has that singular mind and plays with gender so well, challenging gender norms. Seeing ‘Cloud Nine’ when I was in college blew my mind open because men were playing women and women were playing men. Of course, Shakespeare was doing it too, but her work felt more intimate; it was in a small theater. That’s another thing I encourage actors and audiences to do: go see things in small theaters. See it up close because that will excite you and help you learn the craft.”

Sharon Lawrence is an acclaimed actress best known for her Emmy-nominated, SAG Award-winning role as ADA Sylvia Costas on NYPD Blue. She has delivered memorable performances in Desperate Housewives, Monk, Law & Order: SVU, Criminal Minds, Shameless, and Queen Sugar. On stage, she’s earned praise for roles in The Shot (a one-woman play about the owner/publisher of the Washington Post, Katharine Graham), Orson’s Shadow, and A Song at Twilight. Shestarred in Broadway revivals of Cabaret, Chicago, and Fiddler on the Roof. Her recent work includes the neo-Western series Joe Pickett, opposite Michael Dorman, and the films Solace with Anthony Hopkins and The Bridge Partner. Lawrence is also a dedicated advocate, serving on the boards of the SAG-AFTRA Foundation, WeForShe, and Heal the Bay, and is a former Chair of the Women In Film Foundation.

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“I think that it all goes back to childhood. I’ve always really been writing about family. I suppose we always are. I do think that it is the original wound, and it's where we are kind of wired and built from those early years. So I think every other relationship just replicates that. It's very natural for me to go there, I suppose because the feelings are most intense there. We just keep recycling these relationships and dynamics over and over again—until maybe someday we can catch ourselves and try to break the bad patterns. It feels the most visceral and real to me, always. You're always looking for that in writing. You want everything to be at this peak intensity, or at least I do. That seems the most natural place to start.

I've thought about that a lot while writing the book. We really are in the age of the grifter, as they keep saying. In some ways, it's the most deeply American type, the hustler of American aspiration. And money, I think that was hovering in my head when I wrote the book. How women persuade and convince one another of things feels particularly complex to me. I think there are so many layers to female relationships. That was really interesting to me to pursue because, in some ways, it's much more veiled and complex. So I tend to write about groups of women a lot, regardless of the field, but particularly the way they communicate or don't communicate, or communicate without words to one another, is an ongoing fascination of mine.”

Megan Abbott is the Edgar award-winning author of twelve crime novels, including Beware the Woman, You Will Know Me, Give Me Your Hand, and the New York Times bestseller The Turnout, the winner of the Los Angeles Times Book Prize. She received her Ph.D. in English and American literature from New York University, and her writing has appeared in the New York Times, the Guardian, the Paris Review and the Wall Street Journal. Dare Me, the series she adapted from her own novel, now streaming on Netflix. Her latest novel, El Dorado Drive, is available June 24, 2025.

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“I always say to young writers, you need to put your heart on the page. Don't worry about being like anyone else. I would say that foremost, in any of the arts, it is self-expression at its core. I don't buy rules or a set criteria or a static criteria. I don't believe in any of that. I think the most exciting talents are kind of inexplicable. You can't really understand why that art works. It just does, and that feels like it comes from a very pure place.

I think that it all goes back to childhood. I’ve always really been writing about family. I suppose we always are. I do think that it is the original wound, and it's where we are kind of wired and built from those early years. So I think every other relationship just replicates that. It's very natural for me to go there, I suppose because the feelings are most intense there. We just keep recycling these relationships and dynamics over and over again—until maybe someday we can catch ourselves and try to break the bad patterns. It feels the most visceral and real to me, always. You're always looking for that in writing. You want everything to be at this peak intensity, or at least I do. That seems the most natural place to start.”

Megan Abbott is the Edgar award-winning author of twelve crime novels, including Beware the Woman, You Will Know Me, Give Me Your Hand, and the New York Times bestseller The Turnout, the winner of the Los Angeles Times Book Prize. She received her Ph.D. in English and American literature from New York University, and her writing has appeared in the New York Times, the Guardian, the Paris Review and the Wall Street Journal. Dare Me, the series she adapted from her own novel, now streaming on Netflix. Her latest novel, El Dorado Drive, is available June 24, 2025.

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“The more that you have that evolving relationship with the natural world, that's dynamic and alive to the moment you're in, and that's not afraid of the feelings of fear, hopelessness, grief, or pain that attend paying close attention to the world as it is evolving around you, the better we are able to be flexible in the relationship we need to form with fixing what we can and holding onto what we have. The more we rely on that black-and-white thinking of either being in grief or being out of it, where we have a loss and we have to move on, or we don't and we're fine. The more that happens, the more difficult it is to flow into what we really need in terms of emotional flexibility to get through the staggering changes that are starting to happen regarding climate issues.”

Eiren Caffall is a writer and musician. Her work on loss, oceans, and extinction has appeared in Orion,Guernica, The LA Review of Books, Al Jazeera, and the anthology Elementals. She has received a 2023 Whiting Creative Nonfiction Grant, a Social Justice News Nexus fellowship, and a 3Arts Make a Wave grant. Her work includes her memoir The Mourner’s Bestiary, the short film Becoming Oceanthatshe made with Scott Foley, and her novel All the Water in the World.

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“We are in a complex and delicately balanced relationship of connection to everything else on the planet. We begin to recognize, write into, and speak into the complex interdependence and interconnection of every gesture that we make on the planet. Most storytelling that I really respond to, whether it's from my own culture or from previous civilizations, acknowledges that we are in this complex relationship where every gesture we make is connected to the lives of every other creature on the planet. The more narratives we allow to be complex in that way and interconnected, the more we begin to change our brain chemistry around how we protect ourselves and everything that is in relation to us. The more that you have that evolving relationship with it, that's dynamic and alive to the moment you're in, and that's not afraid of the feelings of fear, hopelessness, grief, or pain that attend paying close attention to the world as it is evolving around you, the better we are able to be flexible in the relationship we need to form with fixing what we can and holding onto what we have.”

Eiren Caffall is a writer and musician. Her work on loss, oceans, and extinction has appeared in Orion, Guernica, The LA Review of Books, Al Jazeera, and the anthology Elementals. She has received a 2023 Whiting Creative Nonfiction Grant, a Social Justice News Nexus fellowship, and a 3Arts Make a Wave grant. Her work includes her memoir The Mourner’s Bestiary, the short film Becoming Oceanthatshe made with Scott Foley, and her novel All the Water in the World.

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“I think that it's almost like in some ways the specificity of Palestine also becomes kind of a universality, where you can stay in this specific example because there is something about this experience that makes it specific, right? It's happening because it's been sanctioned to happen in this way. Right? Because you can't slaughter tens of thousands of people without consequence unless you have made those people less than people. Unless there has been a very effective project of dehumanization that's been carried out against the people that are being killed.

I think, in some ways, this memoir was a project of sifting through and excavating the darkest hours, both for me and for the lineage and ancestry that I came from. I think the darkest hours were experienced by so many people I come from who have had to leave places they didn't want to leave. I live in exile and have been forced to leave behind houses, land, cities, and people. Oftentimes, this has happened more than once in a lifetime, so they have carried that trauma. Of course, it plays out intergenerationally in many different ways.”

Hala Alyan is the author of the memoir I'll Tell You When I'm Home, the novels Salt Houses—winner of the Dayton Literary Peace Prize and the Arab American Book Award, and a finalist for the Chautauqua Prize—and The Arsonists’ City, a finalist for the Aspen Words Literary Prize. She is also the author of five highly acclaimed collections of poetry, including The Twenty-Ninth Year and The Moon That Turns You Back. Her work has been published by The New Yorker, The Academy of American Poets, The New York Times, The Guardian, and Guernica. She lives in Brooklyn with her family, where she works as a clinical psychologist and professor at New York University.

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“I want to live a life of consequence, and I want to live a life that has stakes in it because that means that things matter to you. I think, in some ways, this memoir was a project of sifting through and excavating the darkest hours, both for me and for the lineage and ancestry that I came from. I think the darkest hours were experienced by so many people I come from who have had to leave places they didn't want to leave. I live in exile and have been forced to leave behind houses, land, cities, and people. Oftentimes, this has happened more than once in a lifetime, so they have carried that trauma. Of course, it plays out intergenerationally in many different ways.

I think it's a time of fear. I don't think I'm alone in that. I am scared for people that I love. I am scared for people who are quite vulnerable. I worry for my students. I am concerned for the places that I feel are engaging in complicity because that will be such a heavy legacy to endure later on, how people, places, and entities comport themselves in moments like this. They will be remembered. There will always be people who remember it.”

Hala Alyan is the author of the memoir I'll Tell You When I'm Home, the novels Salt Houses—winner of the Dayton Literary Peace Prize and the Arab American Book Award, and a finalist for the Chautauqua Prize—and The Arsonists’ City, a finalist for the Aspen Words Literary Prize. She is also the author of five highly acclaimed collections of poetry, including The Twenty-Ninth Year and The Moon That Turns You Back. Her work has been published by The New Yorker, The Academy of American Poets, The New York Times, The Guardian, and Guernica. She lives in Brooklyn with her family, where she works as a clinical psychologist and professor at New York University.

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“In an age of seeming isolationism, where some countries tend to isolate, this is such a great way to bring people together. When you're doing music and the arts, all those barriers just fall away. People are just collaborating and having fun. It’s such a bridge-building endeavor. I don't mean that to sound cheesy either, because I just think it is really amazing. They end up being ambassadors who go back to their own country and say, “Wow, I had a great time at this festival in America or in the Netherlands.” It ends up being one more step in our way, with our organization, of trying to connect people together in an age when so many people seem to want to hide out and not connect. We’re big advocates of connecting, and that’s another great reason why I think we love to do this. too.”

Today’s guests are composer Robert Paterson and violinist Victoria Paterson, the visionary duo behind Mostly Modern Festival & Projects, an organization dedicated to celebrating music by living composers through performance, education, and community outreach.

Robert’s work is known for its rhythmic energy, emotional range, and inventive themes—from environmentalism and mythology to technology and modern relationships. Based in Saratoga Springs and NYC, he’s been recognized with numerous honors, including the Classical Recording Foundation’s Composer of the Year at Carnegie Hall and a Grammy® for Three Way. His music is performed by major orchestras and ensembles across the globe and regularly featured on NPR. He is the co-founder and Artistic Director of the Mostly Modern Festival, which takes place in both Saratoga Springs and the Netherlands.

Victoria has built a multifaceted career across classical, Broadway, and commercial music, performing everywhere from Carnegie Hall to The Today Show. As General Director of Mostly Modern Projects, she leads year-round programming that brings music into hospitals, public parks, and senior centers, while also mentoring emerging artists across the country.

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Season 3 of Business & Society focuses on CEOs, Sustainability & Environmental Solutions
Business & Society is a limited series co-hosted by Bruce Piasecki.

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“I was originally drawn to bees because they're social creatures. And as humans, I always wanted to know about ourselves and how we can be our healthiest selves and our healthiest society. Bees and wasps, and all of these organisms have been around for so long. Bees especially have been around for 100 million years.”

Noah Wilson-Rich, Ph.D. is co-founder and CEO of The Best Bees Company, the largest beekeeping service in the US. He is a 20-time published author and 3-time TEDx speaker. He’s on a mission to improve pollinator health worldwide as a means to support our global food system and support the transformation of urban areas from gray to green. He is the author of The Bee: A Natural History.

Happy World Bee Day! Let’s give thanks for these tiny hardworking pollinators who play a huge role in our ecosystem. They are vital to our food supply and biodiversity. Bees can sense electric fields and navigate using the sun, and have to visit millions of flowers to produce just a pound of honey. Remarkably intelligent, they have excellent memories, they perform a waggle dance to guide each other to nectar, and can even recognize human faces. Yet they are increasingly threatened by climate change. Rising temperatures, shifting blooming seasons, and extreme weather events disrupt their life cycles and food sources, putting both wild and managed bee populations at risk. Without bees, many of the fruits, vegetables, and nuts we rely on would disappear. As we face a changing climate, it's more important than ever to protect them. By planting pollinator-friendly gardens, reducing pesticide use, and taking action to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, we can help bees thrive and ensure a healthier planet for all.

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Their blog offers many resources: https://bestbees.com/blog/

www.pollinator.org

Green roof company Columbia Green Technologies columbia-green.com

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Happy World Bee Day! Let’s give thanks for these tiny hardworking pollinators who play a huge role in our ecosystem. They are vital to our food supply and biodiversity. Bees can sense electric fields and navigate using the sun, and have to visit millions of flowers to produce just a pound of honey. Remarkably intelligent, they have excellent memories, they perform a waggle dance to guide each other to nectar, and can even recognize human faces. Yet they are increasingly threatened by climate change. Rising temperatures, shifting blooming seasons, and extreme weather events disrupt their life cycles and food sources, putting both wild and managed bee populations at risk. Without bees, many of the fruits, vegetables, and nuts we rely on would disappear. As we face a changing climate, it's more important than ever to protect them. By planting pollinator-friendly gardens, reducing pesticide use, and taking action to reduce greenhouse gas emissions, we can help bees thrive and ensure a healthier planet for all.

Noah Wilson-Rich, Ph.D. is co-founder and CEO of The Best Bees Company, the largest beekeeping service in the US. He is a 20-time published author and 3-time TEDx speaker. He’s on a mission to improve pollinator health worldwide as a means to support our global food system and support the transformation of urban areas from gray to green. He is the author of The Bee: A Natural History.

“I was originally drawn to bees because they're social creatures. And as humans, I always wanted to know about ourselves and how we can be our healthiest selves and our healthiest society. Bees and wasps, and all of these organisms have been around for so long. Bees especially have been around for 100 million years.”

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Their blog offers many resources:
https://bestbees.com/blog/

www.pollinator.org

Green roof company
Columbia Green Technologies columbia-green.com

Noah-Wilson Rich’s website:
https://www.noahwilsonrich.com

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How do our personal relationships affect political movements and activism? What can we learn from Native American tradition to restore ecological balance? How can transforming capitalism help address global inequality and the environmental crisis?

DEAN SPADE (Author of Love in a Fcked-Up World: How to Build Relationships, Hook Up, and Raise Hell Together)* shares his reflections on the importance of understanding common relational patterns within activist movements. He emphasizes the need for solidarity and collective action in response to global crises like the conflict in Gaza and ecological disasters. Spade argues for resilience and mutual support within activist communities as essential for sustained efforts toward systemic change.

TIOKASIN GHOSTHORSE (Founder · Host · Exec. Director of First Voices Radio · Founder of Akantu Intelligence · Master Musician of the Ancient Lakota Flute) discusses the often-overlooked Native history and the Western historical domination that has shaped contemporary educational perspectives. He highlights the need for reconnection to Native perspectives and calls for an acknowledgment of the spiritual and cultural richness lost through historical and ongoing colonial practices.

ALEXI HAWLEY (Showrunner · Writer · Creator of The Rookie · The Recruit) explores the complexities and challenges of depicting policing on television. Reflecting on the creation of his show "The Rookie" in the aftermath of Philando Castile's murder, Hawley discusses the show's evolution in addressing injustice in the justice system and the effort to portray an aspirational version of policing that acknowledges real-world issues.

JERICHO BROWN (Pulitzer Prize-winning Poet · Director of Creative Writing Program · Emory University · Editor of How We Do It: Black Writers on Craft, Practice, and Skill) delves into the complexities of being a Black writer, emphasizing the importance of embracing one's identity rather than trying to transcend it. He discusses how blackness enriches his craft and argues that the power of writing comes from its capacity to create new ways of seeing and understanding the world.

PAUL SHRIVASTAVA (Co-President of THE CLUB OF ROME) analyzes the need for collaborative efforts across various sectors—businesses, governments, and individuals—to address global inequalities and environmental challenges. He underscores the imperative to reshape capitalist principles to reduce extreme inequalities and to foster a sustainable and equitable global system.

To hear more from each guest, listen to their full interviews.

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“I want to draw the similarities with alien life, and we have these questions. They're the same questions that we would be asking if we could get a sample from Europa or if we could get a sample from Mars. I think the parallels are partly in how we study them. They're teaching us how to look for strange life, but then they're also teaching us about what’s possible with life, and they're so close to the edge of what is and isn't life that it really helps us to sort of — I don’t know. I don’t know where to draw that line personally, but they at least show us that that line is maybe closer to non-life than we would have thought, than I would have thought.”

Karen G. Lloyd is the Wrigley Chair in Environmental Studies and Professor of Earth Sciences at the University of Southern California. Her work has appeared in leading publications such as Nature and Science. She is the author of Intraterrestrials: *Discovering the Strangest Life on Earth.*

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“It's really changed my view of what life is. So many of the things that we attribute to the trappings of life look like requirements, like oxygen and sunlight. All the things that humans would absolutely die without — they’re not really necessary for life. Studying these things sort of breaks down what is necessary; what are the things that life has to have?”

Karen G. Lloyd is the Wrigley Chair in Environmental Studies and Professor of Earth Sciences at the University of Southern California. Her work has appeared in leading publications such as Nature and Science. She is the author of Intraterrestrials: *Discovering the Strangest Life on Earth.*

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“I think income inequality really greatly contributes to the rage that people might feel, even as some Americans won't. What don't recognize that a more communal society might benefit them. What they see instead is, why don't I have what that person has? Something's getting in my way. And it's not a lack of, of community, it's: somebody else is keeping me down, you know? And that's, I think that's a theme that emerges in The God of the Woods.

I think there's a certain thread in American history of, like, individualism at all costs. The Van Laars named their house Self-reliance, which is a testament to the idea that they, I think, falsely believe themselves to have, have created their own power, their own capital, their own wealth, and ignore the fact that it's really the labor of the working class community around them- that, and of the people of Albany who've invested their money in the Van Laars Bank - that that really contributed to the acquisition of this enormous wealth that they now have and this enormous power that they now have.”

Liz Moore is the author of the New York Times bestselling novel Long Bright River, which was one of Barack Obama’s favorite books of the year, and has been made into a Peacock series starring Amanda Seyfried. Set against the opioid crisis and a string of mysterious murders, it’s a love story between two very different sisters and their path to recovery. Moore is winner of the 2014-2015 Rome Prize in Literature. Her other books include The God of the Woods, Heft, and The Unseen World.

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“ I've lived in Philadelphia for about 16 years.  The book itself was inspired by my time spent in the Kensington neighborhood of Philadelphia interviewing a lot of the people that I met there, both longtime residents of the neighborhood and also people who were transient,  a lot of people struggling with addiction and a lot of women doing sex work to fund their  physical addiction to opioids. You find out about their past,  their road into addiction, their aspirations, their fears.  I began to lead free writing workshops at an organization named St. Francis Inn, which is a longstanding food service organization in the community. They had a women's day shelter where I taught.  I was really able to connect with people within the community on a quite personal level and loved my experiences in Kensington. And I still go, I'm still quite close with a number of the community workers, people who run free healthcare clinics. All of it ultimately informed the writing of Long Bright River.”

Liz Moore is the author of the New York Times bestselling novel Long Bright River, which was one of Barack Obama’s favorite books of the year, and has been made into a Peacock series starring Amanda Seyfried. Set against the opioid crisis and a string of mysterious murders, it’s a love story between two very different sisters and their path to recovery. Moore is winner of the 2014-2015 Rome Prize in Literature. Her other books include The God of the Woods, Heft, and The Unseen World.

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"The country spoke Irish largely before it spoke English. Grammatically, the structure of Irish is different from English. As Ireland adopted the English language, this sort of hybridization started to occur, where the English language was placed on top of Irish grammatical constructions. You get this slipperiness, this ability to move sentences, to place words in interesting places, and to use constructions that you just wouldn't find in England, for example. The thing about being an Irish writer is there isn't a reverence. There’s a sort of implicit freedom to use the language however we like. So long as you have mastery and command of the language, you can push it to the edges."

Paul Lynch is the author of five novels. His most recent novel, Prophet Song, won the 2023 Booker Prize and the Dayton Literary Peace Peace Prize for Fiction, and other prizes. Prophet Song presents a dystopian vision of Ireland and a mother’s determination to protect her family as her country slides towards totalitarianism. The Booker Prize Jury said, “It’s a remarkable accomplishment for a novelist to capture the social and political anxieties of our moment so compellingly.“ In 2024, Lynch was elected to Aosdána, the Irish academy for the arts, honoring distinguished artists. He was the chief film critic of Ireland’s Sunday Tribune newspaper. His novels have been translated into 35 languages.

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Paul Lynch is the author of five novels. His most recent novel, Prophet Song, won the 2023 Booker Prize and the Dayton Literary Peace Peace Prize for Fiction, and other prizes. Prophet Song presents a dystopian vision of Ireland and a mother’s determination to protect her family as her country slides towards totalitarianism. The Booker Prize Jury said, “It’s a remarkable accomplishment for a novelist to capture the social and political anxieties of our moment so compellingly.“ In 2024, Lynch was elected to Aosdána, the Irish academy for the arts, honoring distinguished artists. He was the chief film critic of Ireland’s Sunday Tribune newspaper. His novels have been translated into 35 languages.

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“We narrate the story of our lives to ourselves. We narrate it in linear fashion. And I know many writers have played with time in all sorts of amazing ways, but we're storytellers. This is what we do. And if you give the brain a story, a prepackaged story, you're giving a cheesecake. That's what it wants. That's why it loves stories. That's why our society is just built on stories. Politics is nothing but stories. Everything you do in the evenings – we sit down, we're watching Netflix – just stories. We consume them all the time. We are just machines for belief.”

Paul Lynch is the author of five novels. His most recent novel, Prophet Song, won the 2023 Booker Prize and the Dayton Literary Peace Peace Prize for Fiction, and other prizes. Prophet Song presents a dystopian vision of Ireland and a mother’s determination to protect her family as her country slides towards totalitarianism. The Booker Prize Jury said, “It’s a remarkable accomplishment for a novelist to capture the social and political anxieties of our moment so compellingly.“ In 2024, Lynch was elected to Aosdána, the Irish academy for the arts, honoring distinguished artists. He was the chief film critic of Ireland’s Sunday Tribune newspaper. His novels have been translated into 35 languages.

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We are privileged to present the voices of individuals dedicated to effecting change and mitigating the harm inflicted upon our precious planet. These are individuals deeply committed to the core values that drive positive transformation. Thank you for tuning in to our episodes and for your ongoing dedication to stewarding our planet, not just on Earth Day but throughout the year. We can’t save the planet overnight, but by acting mindfully, we can create a better future. Let’s make Every Day, Earth Day!

Composer MAX  RICHTER on Nature's Sonic Landscape

Founder of PETA INGRID NEWKIRK on the Shared Traits  between Humans and Animals

JULIAN LENNON (Musician and Founder of  White Feather Foundation) on Balancing Our Relationship with Mother Earth

BERTRAND PICCARD (Explorer, Aviator of 1st Round-the-World  Solar-Powered Flight) discusses his adventures and how climate change will change our quality of life

CARL SAFINA (Author and environmentalist)  on the Miracle of Life on Earth

NAN HAUSER (Whale Researcher, President, Center for Cetacean  Research & Conservation) on How a Whale Saved her Life

U.S. Poet Laureate ADA LIMÓN on Embracing  Hope Amid Environmental Uncertainty

Environmental Writer DAVID FARRIER on Evaluating Our Environmental Legacy

Grammy & Emmy Award-winning Sound Engineer CYNTHIA DANIELS  on The Role of Art and Compassion in Transforming Society

Economist ODED GALOR on Education's Role in Addressing Climate Change

President of EarthDay.ORG KATHLEEN ROGERS  on Advocating for Global Environmental Education

Lead Author of IPCC 6th Assessment Report JOELLE GERGIS  on Learning from Historical Climate Data

Fmr. Prime Minister’s Strategy Unit Director SIR GEOFF MULGAN  on Imagining a Circular Future for Society

Free Solo Climber of 200+ of the World’s Tallest Skyscrapers ALAIN   ROBERT on The Consequences of   Overproduction on the  Planet

Director of Climate Hazards Center, UC Santa Barbara  CHRIS FUNK on Adapting to a Two-Degree World

Environmental Writer DAVID FARRIER Stretching Time and Empathy for Future Generations

Author of Finding the Mother Tree DR. SUZANNE SIMARD on  Trees: Advanced Communicators of the Natural World

“Most Influential Living Philosopher” PETER SINGER on the Ethical Imperative to Respect Animal Life

Fmr. Exec. Director, Greenpeace Int'l, Special Envoy for Int'l Climate Action,  German Foreign Ministry JENNIFER MORGAN on the   Importance of Resilience  in Advocacy

To hear more from each guest, listen to their full interviews.

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“I'm really interested in the relation between performance and ritual. Where do those two separate?”

Richard Sennett grew up in the Cabrini Green housing project in Chicago, attended the Juilliard School in New York, and then studied social relations at Harvard. Over the last five decades, he has written about social life in cities, changes in labour, and social theory. His books include The Performer: Art, Life, Politics, The Hidden Injuries of Class, The Fall of Public Man, The Corrosion of Character, The Culture of the New Capitalism, The Craftsman, and Building and Dwelling. Sennett has advised the United Nations on urban issues for the past thirty years and currently serves as member of the UN Committee on Urban Initiatives. He is the Centennial Professor of Sociology at the London School of Economics and former University Professor of the Humanities at New York University.

“I want to show what is kind of the basic DNA that people use for good or for ill. What are the tools they use, if you like, of expression that they use in the creative process?”

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“We look at creative work as though the very creative process itself is something good. These are tools of expression, and like any tool, you can use them to damage something or to make something. They can be turned to very malign purposes, for instance, in the operas of Wagner. So I wanted to do this set of books, I want to show what is kind of the basic DNA that people use for good or for ill. What are the tools they use, if you like, of expression that they use in the creative process?”

Richard Sennettgrew up in the Cabrini Green housing project in Chicago, attended the Juilliard School in New York, and then studied social relations at Harvard. Over the last five decades, he has written about social life in cities, changes in labour, and social theory. His books include The Performer: Art, Life, Politics, The Hidden Injuries of Class, The Fall of Public Man, The Corrosion of Character, The Culture of the New Capitalism, The Craftsman, and Building and Dwelling. Sennett has advised the United Nations on urban issues for the past thirty years and currently serves as member of the UN Committee on Urban Initiatives. He is the Centennial Professor of Sociology at the London School of Economics and former University Professor of the Humanities at New York University.

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“One of the things that hopefully my books illustrate is that everybody's mind is different. And one of the amazing things about the human experience–and indeed that manifests in terms of art and creativity–is that when we have such different minds, that is why all this creativity, all this art is possible.”

Dr. Guy Leschziner is the author of The Nocturnal Brain, The Man Who Tasted Words, and other books. He is a consultant neurologist and a Professor of Neurology and Sleep Medicine at the Institute of Psychiatry, Psychology and Neuroscience, King's College London. He sees patients with a range of neurological and sleep disorders, and is actively involved in research and teaching. He has presented series on sleep and neurology for BBC World Service and Radio 4. His latest book is Seven Deadly Sins: The Biology of Being Human.

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“ I'm fascinated by the extremes of the human experience, partly because it is so far removed from our own experience of life. In another way, when you look at people who have neurological disorders or diseases, these are really nature's experiments. They are ways of trying to understand how the brain works for all of us. By extrapolation from looking at these extremes, we can learn about the workings of our own brains. That's very much the case across all the areas of my work, whether it be sleep disorders, neurology, or epilepsy—how we regulate our emotions, how we move, how we experience the world.

I never intended to be a storyteller; I intended to be a story listener, which is what we do daily in our clinics. Telling these stories generates empathy, creates understanding, and hopefully inspires the next generation to pursue careers as doctors, psychologists, and healthcare professionals, fostering a fascination with the brain similar to what Oliver Sacks did for me.”

Dr. Guy Leschziner is the author of The Nocturnal Brain, The Man Who Tasted Words, and other books. He is a consultant neurologist and a Professor of Neurology and Sleep Medicine at the Institute of Psychiatry, Psychology and Neuroscience, King's College London. He sees patients with a range of neurological and sleep disorders, and is actively involved in research and teaching. He has presented series on sleep and neurology for BBC World Service and Radio 4. His latest book is Seven Deadly Sins: The Biology of Being Human.

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“When I was working at the Times and the Times Magazine, on one Tuesday morning, the towers fell. September 11, 2001. The magazine had a 10-day lead time, so it was a weekly that was essentially 10 days old by the time it came out. We came to work and realized the world had changed, and the entire process, the magazine had been made for over a hundred years, had to be thrown out the window. We had to create a new magazine in 36 hours that would in some way speak to this very different, scary, and interesting world we were now in. In those 36 hours, we usually would take months to produce a magazine. If you take all of its aspects, it’s a long journey. However, we made a magazine in 36 hours that, in some ways, was the best magazine I ever made because of the urgency of the moment.”

Adam Moss was the editor of New York magazine, The New York Times Magazine, and 7 Days. As editor of New York, he also oversaw the creation of five digital magazines: Vulture, The Cut, Daily Intelligencer, Grub Street, and The Strategist. During his tenure, New York won forty-one National Magazine Awards, including Magazine of the Year. He was an assistant managing editor of The New York Times with oversight of the Magazine, the Book Review, and the Culture, and Style sections, as well as managing editor of Esquire. He was elected to the Magazine Editors’ Hall of Fame in 2019. He is the Author of The Work of Art: How Something Comes from Nothing.

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“So, post-activism is not ‘post-activism’ in the sense of being after activism. It is not supposed to be a through line to results or resolutions or solutions.”

Dr. Bayo Akomolafe is a philosopher, psychologist, writer, public intellectual, and the founder of the Emergence Network. His work, which he names post-activism, marks an earth-wide effort to sensitize bodies towards new response-abilities and other places of power – a project framed within a material feminist/post-humanist/post-activist ethos and inspired by Yoruba indigenous cosmologies. He is the author of These Wilds Beyond Our Fences: Letters to My Daughter on Humanity's Search for Home.

“Post-activism is instead a noticing that the ways we care for ourselves and our causes and our worlds could actually be incarcerated. Another way to put that is to notice that care can often become carceral. I often suggest that we like to embrace things, but sometimes in the squeeze of embrace, it could quickly become asphyxiation, where we choke the air out of each other in trying to care for each other.”

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“I learn more than anything else from my children. My son, he's seven, he's autistic, and I call him my prophet for a reason. He teaches me to meet myself in ways that are usually very stunning. I can get information from other people; I can read a book here and there, but it's very rare to come across such an embodiment of grace, possibility, and futurity, all wrapped up in a tiny seven-year-old boy's body. My son has given me lots of gifts.”

Dr. Bayo Akomolafe is a philosopher, psychologist, writer, public intellectual, and the founder of the Emergence Network. His work, which he names post-activism, marks an earth-wide effort to sensitize bodies towards new response-abilities and other places of power – a project framed within a material feminist/post-humanist/post-activist ethos and inspired by Yoruba indigenous cosmologies. He is the author of These Wilds Beyond Our Fences: Letters to My Daughter on Humanity's Search for Home.

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“This novel is the third in what I see as a little set of books that all feature unnamed female protagonists who have experienced varying degrees of passivity and agency in their lives. They're all women who speak the words of other people.”

Katie Kitamura is the author five novels, most recently Audition and Intimacies, which was named one of the New York Times 10 Best Books of 2021, longlisted for the National Book Award and the PEN/Faulkner Award, and a finalist for a Joyce Carol Oates Prize. She is a recipient of the Rome Prize in Literature, fellowships from the Cullman Center and the Lannan Foundation, and many other honors. Her work has been translated into twenty-one languages. She teaches in the creative writing program at New York University.

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“I'm really interested in the formal aspect of characters who are channeling language, who are speaking the words of other people, and in characters who are aware of how little agency they actually have, who have passivity forced upon them, who perhaps even embrace their passivity to a certain extent but eventually seek out where they can enact their agency.”

Katie Kitamura is the author five novels, most recently Auditionand Intimacies, which was named one of the New York Times 10 Best Books of 2021, longlisted for the National Book Award and the PEN/Faulkner Award, and a finalist for a Joyce Carol Oates Prize. She is a recipient of the Rome Prize in Literature, fellowships from the Cullman Center and the Lannan Foundation, and many other honors. Her work has been translated into twenty-one languages. She teaches in the creative writing program at New York University.

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“What I meant when I said there is no AI is that I don't think we serve ourselves well when we put our own technology up as if it were a new God that we created. I think we confuse ourselves too easily. This goes back to Alan Turing, the main founder of computer science, who had this idea of the Turing test. In the test, you can't tell whether the computer has gotten more human-like or the human has gotten more computer-like. People are very prone to becoming more computer-like. When we're on social media, we let ourselves be guided by the algorithms, so we start to become dumb in the way the algorithms want us to. You see that all the time. It's really degraded our psychologies and our society.”

Jaron Lanier is a pioneering technologist, writer, and musician, best known for coining the term “Virtual Reality” and founding VPL Research, the first company to sell VR products. He led early breakthroughs in virtual worlds, avatars, and VR applications in fields like surgery and media. Lanier writes on the philosophy and economics of technology in his bestselling book Who Owns the Future? and You Are Not a Gadget. His book Dawn of the New Everything: Encounters with Reality and Virtual Reality is an inventive blend of autobiography, science writing, and philosophy. Lanier has been named one of TIME’s 100 most influential people and serves as Prime Unifying Scientist at Microsoft’s Office of the CTO—aka “Octopus.” As a musician, he’s performed with Sara Bareilles, Philip Glass, T Bone Burnett, Laurie Anderson, Jon Batiste, and others.

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“AI is obviously the dominant topic in tech lately, and I think occasionally there's AI that's nonsense, and occasionally there's AI that's great. I love finding new proteins for medicine and so on. I don't think we serve ourselves well when we put our own technology up as if it were a new God that we created. I think we're really getting a little too full of ourselves to think that. This goes back to Alan Turing, the main founder of computer science, who had this idea of the Turing test. In the test, you can't tell whether the computer has gotten more human-like or the human has gotten more computer-like. People are very prone to becoming more computer-like. When we're on social media, we let ourselves be guided by the algorithms, so we start to become dumb in the way the algorithms want us to. You see that all the time. It's really degraded our psychologies and our society.”

Jaron Lanier is a pioneering technologist, writer, and musician, best known for coining the term “Virtual Reality” and founding VPL Research, the first company to sell VR products. He led early breakthroughs in virtual worlds, avatars, and VR applications in fields like surgery and media. Lanier writes on the philosophy and economics of technology in his bestselling book Who Owns the Future? and You Are Not a Gadget. His book Dawn of the New Everything: Encounters with Reality and Virtual Reality is an inventive blend of autobiography, science writing, and philosophy. Lanier has been named one of TIME’s 100 most influential people and serves as Prime Unifying Scientist at Microsoft’s Office of the CTO—aka “Octopus.” As a musician, he’s performed with Sara Bareilles, Philip Glass, T Bone Burnett, Laurie Anderson, Jon Batiste, and others.

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“When I first started writing this book, it really foregrounded the problems within our land ownership system, which treats land as a commodity. The way we talk about land and issues like racial and food justice reflects this. We tend to focus on the problems, attaching big concepts to them, such as racial justice or environmental justice. I realized that my job primarily consists of going around and talking to activists and community groups about their work. I’m interested not just in the very big problems we face as a society, economy, and political system, but also in how people are trying to think through solutions or approaches to those problems.

Audrea Lim is a Brooklyn-based freelance writer and journalist whose work focuses on land, energy, and the environment. Her writing has appeared in TheNew Yorker, Harper’s, Rolling Stone, the New York Times, the Guardian, the New Republic, and The Nation. Lim is the editor of The World We Need and the author of Free The Land: How We Can Fight Poverty and Climate Chaos. She is a visiting scholar at the Asian/Pacific/American Institute at New York University and was a 2022 Macdowell fellow.

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The music on this episode is “Snowball” from the album Sunken Cities, performed by Audrea Lim and her band Odd Rumblings.

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“The three ills of democracy that I propose to address with this method, which we've perfected over the last several decades. Democracy is supposed to make some connection with the "will of the people." But how can we estimate the will of the people when everyone is trying to manipulate it?”

James S. Fishkin holds the Janet M. Peck Chair in International Communication at Stanford University where he is Professor of Communication, Professor of Political Science (by courtesy), Senior Fellow of the Freeman Spogli Institute for International Studies, and Director of the Deliberative Democracy Lab. He is also a Fellow of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, a Guggenheim Fellow, and a Fellow of the Center for Advanced Study in the Behavioral Sciences. His work focuses on Deliberative Polling, a process of deliberative public consultation that has been conducted more than 150 times around the world. He is the author of Can Deliberation Cure the Ills of Democracy?, Democracy When the People Are Thinking (OUP) and other books.

“Deliberative democracy is itself, when properly done, a kind of democracy that can speak to the interests of a community. And we need that all over the world.”

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Why is there so much conflict over people, land, and resources? How can we rethink capitalism and land ownership to create a fairer, more equitable society?

Audrea Lim is a Brooklyn-based freelance writer and journalist whose work focuses on land, energy, and the environment. Her writing has appeared in TheNew Yorker, Harper’s, Rolling Stone, the New York Times, the Guardian, the New Republic, and The Nation. Lim is the editor of The World We Need and the author of Free The Land: How We Can Fight Poverty and Climate Chaos. She is a visiting scholar at the Asian/Pacific/American Institute at New York University and was a 2022 Macdowell fellow.

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The music on this episode is “Snowball” from the album Sunken Cities, performed by Audrea Lim and her band Odd Rumblings.

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“Deliberative democracy is itself, when properly done, a kind of democracy that can speak to the interests of a community. And we need that all over the world.”

James S. Fishkin holds the Janet M. Peck Chair in International Communication at Stanford University where he is Professor of Communication, Professor of Political Science (by courtesy), Senior Fellow of the Freeman Spogli Institute for International Studies, and Director of the Deliberative Democracy Lab. He is also a Fellow of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, a Guggenheim Fellow, and a Fellow of the Center for Advanced Study in the Behavioral Sciences. His work focuses on Deliberative Polling, a process of deliberative public consultation that has been conducted more than 150 times around the world. He is the author of Can Deliberation Cure the Ills of Democracy?, Democracy When the People Are Thinking (OUP) and other books.

“The three ills of democracy that I propose to address with this method, which we've perfected over the last several decades. Democracy is supposed to make some connection with the "will of the people." But how can we estimate the will of the people when everyone is trying to manipulate it?”

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How can we free our minds to cultivate curiosity, innovation, and creativity in our daily lives? In this age of AI, where creative tasks are increasingly being performed for us, what is intelligence? And what is the future of education?

Duncan Wardle was Vice President of Innovation and Creativity at Disney and has helped organizations like Apple, the NBA, Coca-Cola, and Spotify to innovate. The Imagination Emporium: Creative Recipes for Innovation is a toolkit with easy-to-use recipes to make innovation and creativity accessible and fun.

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In this episode on Speaking Out of Place podcast Professor David Palumbo-Liu talks with activist and educator Jesse Hagopian about his new book, Teach Truth: The Struggle for Antiracist Education. They talk about the assault on public education that takes the form of criminalizing the truth itself. They note both the powerful corporate forces behind this movement and what they are afraid of, and also discuss the many instances of people fighting back to name, amplify, and mobilize the truth together.

Jesse Hagopian’s African ancestors survived the middle passage and enslavement on plantations in Mississippi and Louisiana. Jesse is a Seattle educator and author of the new book, Teach Truth: The Attack on Critical Race Theory and the Struggle for Antiracist Education. He is editor for Rethinking Schools magazine, a founding steering committee member of Black Lives Matter at School, and is the Director the Teaching for Black Lives Campaign of the Zinn Education Project. Jesse is the editor of of the book, More Than a Score: The New Uprising Against High Stakes Testing, and the co-editor of the books, Teaching Palestine, Teaching for Black Lives, Black Lives Matter at School, and Teachers Unions and Social Justice.

Jesse’s writing has appeared in The Seattle Times, The Nation, The Progressive, Truthout, and The Washington Post. You can connect with Jesse on IG (@jessehagopian), Bluesky (@jessehagopian.bsky.social) or his website, www.IAmAnEductor.com.

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How has feminism changed in light of the way we live now?

DEAN SPADE (Author of Love in a Fcked Up World: How to Build Relationships, Hook Up & Raise Hell Together*) on recognizing political conditions in personal relationships.

MARILYN MINTER (Artist, Feminist) on sexual agency, beauty & her creative process.

TEY MEADOW (Author of Trans Kids: Being Gendered in the Twenty-First Century) on the necessity of creating an inclusive environment & argues that diverse storytelling is crucial for healthy development.

ELLEN RAPOPORT (Creator, Exec. Producer of Minx) on the evolution of feminism, the divides that emerged in the 70s over pornography & sex work.

LAURA EASON (Emmy-nominated Producer, Screenwriter · Three Women, House of Cards) on the significance of representing ordinary women’s experiences.

SHARMEEN OBAID-CHINOY (Oscar & Emmy-winning Director of Diane von Furstenberg: Woman in Charge · Forthcoming Star Wars film) on the legacy of von Furstenberg.

SARA AHMED (Author, The Feminist Killjoy Handbook) reclaims the stereotypes, calling for solidarity among feminists.

INTAN PARAMADITHA (Author, The Wandering) reflects on the importance of intergenerational knowledge among women.

DIAN HANSON (Editor) on participating in the sex-positive movements of the 1960s to creating niche fetish magazines.

KATE MUETH (Neo-Political Cowgirls Founder) on the importance of finding meaning in creative work, community & storytelling in human experience.

Listen to full interviews

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In this episode on Speaking Out of Place podcast Professor David Palumbo-Liu talks with Sarah T. Roberts about the hidden humans behind Artificial Intelligence, which is reliant on executives and business managers to direct AI to promote their brand and low-level, out-sourced, and poorly paid content managers to slog through masses of images, words, and data before they get fed into the machine. They talk about the cultural, sociological, financial, and political aspects of AI. They end by taking on Elon Musk and the DOGE project, as an emblem of how Silicon Valley executives have embraced a brand of tech rapture that disdains and destroys democracy and attacks the idea that people can take care of each other, independent of sociopathic libertarianism.

Sarah T. Roberts, Ph.D., is a full professor at UCLA (Gender Studies, Information Studies, Labor Studies), specializing in Internet and social media policy, infrastructure, politics and culture, and the intersection of media, technology, and society. She is the faculty director and co-founder of the UCLA Center for Critical Internet Inquiry (C2i2), co-director of the Minderoo Initiative on Technology & Power, and a research associate of the Oxford Internet Institute. Informed by feminist Science and Technology Studies perspectives, Roberts is keenly interested in the way power, geopolitics, and economics play out on and via the internet, reproducing, reifying, and exacerbating global inequities and social injustice.

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“We've lost over 70 percent, 73 percent, I think the latest data indicates, of wildlife and mammals in the last 50 years. That’s just shocking when you get that data, but then you ask, what can I do? What can I do? I wanted to move away from any guilt or compulsion because it doesn't work to talk to people that way. After 50 years of climate being in the news, in science, and in our schools, less than a fraction of 1 percent of people in the world do anything about it on a daily basis. How could that be? This is a civilizational crisis. For less than 1 percent to be engaged and do something means that our communication is flawed. I’m not saying the people are wrong, or the science is wrong, or the facts are wrong, but the narrative as a whole is not one that truly entices people or draws them in with a shared understanding of what we face and what to do about it. “

Paul Hawken is a renowned environmentalist, entrepreneur, author, and activist committed to sustainability and transforming the business-environment relationship. He starts ecological businesses, writes about nature and commerce, and consults with heads of state and CEOs on climactic economic and ecological regeneration. He has appeared on the Today Show, Talk of the Nation, Real Time with Bill Maher, CBS This Morning, and his work has been profiled or featured in hundreds of articles, including The Wall Street Journal, New York Times, Newsweek, Washington Post, Forbes, and Businessweek. He has written nine books, including six national and New York Times bestsellers. He's published in 30 languages, and his books are available in over 90 countries. He is the founder of Project Drawdown and Project Regeneration, which is creating the world's largest, most complete listing and network of solutions to the climate crisis. His latest book is Carbon: The Book of Life.

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“We have 1.2 trillion carbon molecules in every cell. We have around 30 trillion cells, and that’s us. So carbon is really a flow that animates everything we love, enjoy, eat, and all plant life, all sea life—everything that's alive on this planet—is animated by the flow of carbon. “

Paul Hawken is a renowned environmentalist, entrepreneur, author, and activist committed to sustainability and transforming the business-environment relationship. He starts ecological businesses, writes about nature and commerce, and consults with heads of state and CEOs on climactic economic and ecological regeneration. He has appeared on the Today Show, Talk of the Nation, Real Time with Bill Maher, CBS This Morning, and his work has been profiled or featured in hundreds of articles, including The Wall Street Journal, New York Times, Newsweek, Washington Post, Forbes, and Businessweek. He has written nine books, including six national and New York Times bestsellers. He's published in 30 languages, and his books are available in over 90 countries. He is the founder of Project Drawdown and Project Regeneration, which is creating the world's largest, most complete listing and network of solutions to the climate crisis. His latest book is Carbon: The Book of Life.

“We want to see the situation we're in as that, as a flow. Where are the flows coming from, and why are we interfering with them? Why are we crushing them? Why are we killing them? For sure. But also, we need to see the wonder, the awe, the astonishment of life itself and to have that sensibility as the overriding narrative of how we act in the world, how we live, and how we talk to each other. Unless we change the conversation about climate into something that's a conversation about more life—better conditions for people in terms of social justice, restoring so much of what we've lost—then we won’t get anywhere.”

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In this episode on Speaking Out of Place podcast Professor David Palumbo-Liut talks with Professor Adrian Daub about the recent elections in Germany, where we saw a surge in votes for the Far Right AfD party, which is now the second most powerful party in the country. They discuss the significance of this rise in popularity and the ways the elections reveal a number of shifts in German politics as the various parties stake out positions that align with not just a center-right orientation but, more dangerously, a far-right one. They speak of the parallels to the recent election of Donald Trump to the US presidency, and what it says about the entrenchment of both neoliberalism and a faux populism based on xenophobia and not serving the actual material interests of everyday people.

Adrian Daub teaches German and Comparative Literature at Stanford, where he directs the Clayman Institute for Gender Research. He is the author most recently of The Cancel Culture Panic (2024), and co-hosts the podcast In Bed With the Right.

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Peter Weller is a renowned theater and Hollywood actor. His performances in films such as RoboCop and Naked Lunch garnered him much critical and commercial success over the years. His television acting and directing credits include Sons of Anarchy, Dexter, and 24. Unbeknownst to most, Weller has spent decades honing his appreciation for the visual and musical arts through his studies of the Renaissance era. Earning a Master's in Roman architecture from Syracuse University before moving on to a PhD in Renaissance Art from UCLA. Dr. Weller has just written a book, Leon Battista Alberti in Exile: Tracing the Path to the First Modern Book on Painting.

“Art transcends time and culture—the beauty of it. People worry about the world now. I remind them to go live in 1968, a time of preparing to go to the moon while people died for their beliefs. This is a difficult time in a republic that’s supposed to be free, but music was leading the way. It’s actually harmonious, transcending culture and time. That might be the greatest gift of our transcendence.”

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“I met Miles backstage at the Hollywood Bowl—the last gig he ever played. Miles asked, “Who’s that white boy?” I introduced him to Bob Thiele Jr., whose father produced Coltrane. When Miles discovered this, he said, “Well, you can hang,” following this friendly gesture with me walking Miles to his car. I did not know he was dying. I kissed him on both cheeks. And 18 days later, he was gone.”

Peter Weller is a renowned theater and Hollywood actor. His performances in films such as RoboCop and Naked Lunch garnered him much critical and commercial success over the years. His television acting and directing credits include Sons of Anarchy, Dexter, and 24. Unbeknownst to most, Weller has spent decades honing his appreciation for the visual and musical arts through his studies of the Renaissance era. Earning a Master's in Roman architecture from Syracuse University before moving on to a PhD in Renaissance Art from UCLA. Dr. Weller has just written a book, Leon Battista Alberti in Exile: Tracing the Path to the First Modern Book on Painting.

Weller has also contributed an essay remembering his friend Miles Davis for Jazz and Literature. The book, co-edited by Mia Funk, features many of her interviews and artworks, as well as poetry, art, and essays by our contributors.

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How can we overcome our fears? How can we challenge ourselves, pushing our physical boundaries to achieve the impossible?

Alain Robert is a renowned rock climber and urban climber. Known as "the French Spider-Man” or "the Human Spider," Robert is famous for his free solo climbing, scaling skyscrapers using no climbing equipment except for a small bag of chalk and a pair of climbing shoes. Some of his most notable ascents include the Burj Khalifa, the Eiffel Tower, and the Sydney Opera House, and over 200 of the world's tallest skyscrapers. He is also a motivational speaker and the author of The Spider-man: Free and Unattached, and With Bare Hands: The True Story of Alain Robert, the Real-life Spiderman.

“You are fighting to stay alive. You are fully in the present moment. You don't have time to think about being afraid. You are focused on what you are doing. You struggle to pass another window. You don't have time to think about your problems. The only thing you are concerned about deep down in the back of your mind is that you need to stay alive, and for that, you need to remain calm and focused.”

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“You are fighting to stay alive. You are fully in the present moment. You don't have time to think about being afraid. You are focused on what you are doing. You struggle to pass another window. You don't have time to think about your problems. The only thing you are concerned about deep down in the back of your mind is that you need to stay alive, and for that, you need to remain calm and focused.”

How can we overcome our fears? How can we challenge ourselves, pushing our physical boundaries to achieve the impossible?

Alain Robert is a renowned rock climber and urban climber. Known as "the French Spider-Man” or "the Human Spider," Robert is famous for his free solo climbing, scaling skyscrapers using no climbing equipment except for a small bag of chalk and a pair of climbing shoes. Some of his most notable ascents include the Burj Khalifa, the Eiffel Tower, and the Sydney Opera House, and over 200 of the world's tallest skyscrapers. He is also a motivational speaker and the author of The Spider-man: Free and Unattached, and With Bare Hands: The True Story of Alain Robert, the Real-life Spiderman.

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In this episode on the Speaking Out of Place podcast, Professor David Palumbo-Liutalks with Tao Leigh Goffe about her new, magisterial Dark Laboratory: On Columbus, the Caribbean, and the Origins of the Climate Crisis. Spanning many fields and disciplines in the natural sciences, social sciences, the humanities, and the arts, Professor Goffe weaves together a historically rich and geographically complex picture of how capitalism and racism undergird the climate crisis in ways made invisible or benign via the work of the west’s “dark laboratory.” Writing back through accounts of indigenous bird watching and Black provisional grounds, we talk about things as seemingly different as the massive guano industry built on Chinese and Indian labor in the 19th century to Malcolm X’s boyhood vegetable garden in Michigan. We talk in particular about one of the key passages of Dark Laboratory, where Tao writes:

“Still, we manage to create a poetics out of that which wishes to destroy us and the planet. How else will we be able to live in ‘the after’? We must reassess what a problem is. Living is not a problem, as Audrey Lorde reminds us. I would add that dying is not a problem either. Decomposing is essential to the natural order and cycle of life. Living at the expense of others is a problem.”

Tao Leigh Goffe is a writer, theorist, and interdisciplinary artist who grew up between the UK and New York City. For the past fifteen years she has specialized in colonial histories of race, geology, climate, and media technologies. Dr. Goffe lives and works in Manhattan where she is an Associate Professor at CUNY in Black Studies. She teaches classes on literary theory and cultural history. Dr. Goffe’s book on how the climate crisis is a racial crisis is called DARK LABORATORY (Doubleday and Hamish Hamilton (Penguin UK, 2025). Her second book BLACK CAPITAL, CHINESE DEBT, under contract with Duke University Press, presents a long history of racialization, modern finance, and indebtedness. It brings together subjects of the Atlantic and Pacific markets from 1806 to the present under European colonialism. Dr. Goffe is a fellow at the Harvard University Kennedy School in racial justice. Her research explores Black diasporic intellectual histories, political, and ecological life. She studied English literature at Princeton University before earning her PhD at Yale University.

Dr. Goffe’s research and curatorial work is rooted in literatures and theories of labor that center Black feminist engagements with Indigeneity and Asian diasporic racial formations. Committed to building intellectual communities beyond institutions, she is the founder of the Dark Laboratory, an engine for the study of race, technology, and ecology through digital storytelling. Dr. Goffe is also the Executive Director of the Afro-Asia Group, an organization that centers the intersections of African and Asian diasporas, futurity, and radical coalition towards sovereignty.

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JULIE ANDREWS (Oscar, Tony & Pulitzer Prize-winning Actress & Singer · The Sound of Music, Mary Poppins) Andrews shares her experience working on Mary Poppins, revealing behind-the-scenes secrets about the character. She reminisces about her collaboration with Walt Disney and Tony Walton.

ETGAR KERET (Cannes Film Festival Award-winning Director & Author) Keret discusses the profound impact of his parents' survival stories from the Holocaust on his work. He explores how extreme human experiences can lead to extraordinary resilience and creativity,

JOHN PATRICK SHANLEY (Oscar, Tony & Pulitzer Prize-winning Writer/Director · Doubt, Moonstruck, Joe Versus the Volcano) Shanley highlights the invaluable lessons and life experiences gained from his time in the Marine Corps. He emphasizes the significance of diverse interactions and communal living, underscoring how these experiences shape both his artistic vision and societal views.

JOY GORMAN WETTELS (Exec. Producer of 13 Reasons Why, UnPrisoned · Founder of Joy Coalition) Joy Gorman Wettels reflects on her theatrical upbringing and the influence of her mother’s passion for Sondheim and Neil Simon. She shares touching memories of the LGBTQ+ community in her life and how these early experiences cultivated her love for storytelling and community theater.

PAUL SCHRADER (Screenwriter/Director · Taxi Driver, Raging Bull, First Reformed) Schrader analyzes the lasting impact of Taxi Driver on his work. He details his technique of immersing the audience into the protagonist’s perspective and psychology.

CHAYSE IRVIN (Award-winning Cinematographer · Blonde starring Ana de Armas · Beyonce: Lemonade · Spike Lee’s BlacKkKlansman) Irvin discusses using mise-en-scène to represent characters’ psychological states.

MANUEL BILLETER (Cinematographer · The Gilded Age · Inventing Anna · Jessica Jones · Luke Cage) Billeter recounts his early inspirations from masters like Fellini and Antonioni and his invaluable learning experiences while working alongside Alfonso Cuarón.

To hear more from each guest, listen to their full interviews.

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“What I have done in my career is just try to assess who we are, what we are, why we are here, and how come we, as animals, are able to walk around and wear pants and dresses and talk on the internet, while the other animals are not. It's been my obsession since I was young. I think if I hadn't become a novelist, I might have been happy to be a naturalist or a field biologist.

There is some kind of magic in the creative process. I am reaching for things in my unconscious that surprise me. I don't know what it's going to be. I'd like to do many, many things. It's all my life's work. I don't want to just write the same book over and over again as some other authors do. I don't want to become formulaic.”

T.C. Boyle is a novelist and short story writer based out of Santa Barbara, California. He has published 19 novels, such as The Road to Wellville and more than 150 short stories for publications like The New Yorker, as well as his many short story collections. His latest novel Blue Skies is a companion piece to A Friend of the Earth. His writing has earned numerous awards, including winning the PEN/Faulkner Award for Best Novel of the Year for World's End.

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Why are we filled with so many contradictions? How does writing help us make sense of the absurdity and of the absurdity and chaos of the world?

T.C. Boyle is a novelist and short story writer based out of Santa Barbara, California. He has published 19 novels, such as The Road to Wellville and more than 150 short stories for publications like The New Yorker, as well as his many short story collections. His latest novel Blue Skies is a companion piece to A Friend of the Earth. His writing has earned numerous awards, including winning the PEN/Faulkner Award for Best Novel of the Year for World's End.

“What I have done in my career is just try to assess who we are, what we are, why we are here, and how come we, as animals, are able to walk around and wear pants and dresses and talk on the internet, while the other animals are not. It's been my obsession since I was young. I think if I hadn't become a novelist, I might have been happy to be a naturalist or a field biologist.

There is some kind of magic in the creative process. I am reaching for things in my unconscious that surprise me. I don't know what it's going to be. I'd like to do many, many things. It's all my life's work. I don't want to just write the same book over and over again as some other authors do. I don't want to become formulaic.”

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“You have all the different languages interplaying with each other. Little scraps of Irish languages and idioms have stories that have been told, but how Ireland actually comes about as an idea, as to where the Irish come from. A lot of these kinds of debates are just placed, you know, in day-to-day conversation, and then they trail off. People start something; they trail off and might come back to it later. That phenomenon of speaking over each other, tales that are known and not known, I always found very interesting. It was literally like a radio that was kept on all day in the kitchen.

You would come in and out, and you would hear certain things, and you'd have to work out the context and the conversation and the speakers. In some way, one of the big personalities in the book is just a radio that’s playing, and some of these conversations are not actually taking place between characters in real-time. They're just snippets that have been overheard on radios.”

Patrick Healy was born in Dublin in 1955. He studied philosophy and Semitic languages at St. Columbans Dalgan Park, Pontifical University Maynooth, and University College Dublin. He has published over 20 books on topics around artists, aesthetic theory, philosophy of science, architecture, art criticism and innumerable essays. He has been a Professor of Interdisciplinary Research at Free International University Amsterdam, 1997-present, and was a Senior Research Fellow at the Faculty of Architecture from 2020-2022. He is currently completing a new work of fiction entitled Fatal Fragments, a loose follow-up to his novel Beyond the Pale.

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Patrick Healy’s novel Beyond the Pale explores memory, time, childhood, and how language shapes our world. Set in rural Ireland, starting in the 1950s, the book follows a young boy’s early memories through a series of expressionistic soundscapes. The expression from which the book takes its name has come to mean beyond what is considered acceptable behavior, but the origins of the phrase referred to land within Ireland that was “beyond the control of the English government.” Healy’s book examines social class, stigma, village, family life, identity, and the nature of consciousness. Rooted in the oral tradition, the book is a celebration of place, the Irish idiom, music, and memory.

Patrick Healy was born in Dublin in 1955. He studied philosophy and Semitic languages at St. Columbans Dalgan Park, Pontifical University Maynooth, and University College Dublin. He has published over 20 books on topics around artists, aesthetic theory, philosophy of science, architecture, art criticism and innumerable essays. He has been a Professor of Interdisciplinary Research at Free International University Amsterdam, 1997-present, and was a Senior Research Fellow at the Faculty of Architecture from 2020-2022. He is currently completing a new work of fiction entitled Fatal Fragments, a loose follow-up to his novel Beyond the Pale.

“You have all the different languages interplaying with each other. Little scraps of Irish languages and idioms have stories that have been told, but how Ireland actually comes about as an idea, as to where the Irish come from. A lot of these kinds of debates are just placed, you know, in day-to-day conversation, and then they trail off. People start something; they trail off and might come back to it later. That phenomenon of speaking over each other, tales that are known and not known, I always found very interesting. It was literally like a radio that was kept on all day in the kitchen.

You would come in and out, and you would hear certain things, and you'd have to work out the context and the conversation and the speakers. In some way, one of the big personalities in the book is just a radio that’s playing, and some of these conversations are not actually taking place between characters in real-time. They're just snippets that have been overheard on radios.”

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“The fact that technologies are being used and combined to capture our attention is concerning. This is currently being done with no limitations and no regulations. That's the main problem. Attention is a very private resource. No one should be allowed to extract it from us by exploiting what we know about the human mind and how it functions, including its weaknesses. We wrote this paper as a call to regulate the attention market and prevent algorithmic emotional governance.”

Computer scientist Fabien Gandon and research engineer Franck Michel are experts in AI, the Web, and knowledge systems. Fabien is a senior researcher at Inria (Institut national de recherche en sciences et technologies du numérique), specializing in the Semantic Web, while Franck focuses on integrating and sharing data through Linked Open Data technologies.

Together, they’ve written Pay Attention: A Call to Regulate the Attention Market and Prevent Algorithmic Emotional Governance. Their research unpacks how digital platforms are monetizing our attention at an unprecedented scale—fueling misinformation and division and even threatening democracy and affecting our emotions and well-being.

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AI competes for our attention because our attention has been commodified. As our entire lives revolve more and more around the attention economy, what can we do to restore our autonomy, reclaim our privacy, and reconnect with the real world.

Computer scientist Fabien Gandon and research engineer Franck Michel are experts in AI, the Web, and knowledge systems. Fabien is a senior researcher at Inria (Institut national de recherche en sciences et technologies du numérique), specializing in the Semantic Web, while Franck focuses on integrating and sharing data through Linked Open Data technologies.

Together, they’ve written Pay Attention: A Call to Regulate the Attention Market and Prevent Algorithmic Emotional Governance. Their research unpacks how digital platforms are monetizing our attention at an unprecedented scale—fueling misinformation and division and even threatening democracy and affecting our emotions and well-being.

“The fact that technologies are being used and combined to capture our attention is concerning. This is currently being done with no limitations and no regulations. That's the main problem. Attention is a very private resource. No one should be allowed to extract it from us by exploiting what we know about the human mind and how it functions, including its weaknesses. We wrote this paper as a call to regulate the attention market and prevent algorithmic emotional governance.”

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In this episode of Speaking Out of Place podcast Professor David Palumbo-Liu talks with Maya Schenwar and Kim Wilson on their new book, We Grow the World Together: Parenting Toward Abolition. They talk about what inspired them to commission a wide range of amazing activists, artists, scholars, and organizers to write whatever came to their minds about the topic of parenting and abolition. The result is a rich mosaic of unique insights expressed in diverse forms, but each one touching deeply on the interdependency of living beings and the importance of caregiving in all its forms. It is this commitment that leads us always to imagine an abolitionist future for ourselves, and all children.

Maya Schenwar is Truthout's editor-in-chief, author of Locked Down, Locked Out: Why Prison Doesn’t Work and How We Can Do Better, and co-editor of Who Do You Serve, Who Do you Protect? Police Violence and Resistance in the United States.

Kim Wilson is an artist, educator, writer, and organizer. She is the co-founder, cohost, and producer of Beyond Prisons, a podcast on incarceration and prison abolition. A social scientist by training, Dr. Wilson has a PhD in Urban Affairs and Public Policy, and her work focuses on examining the interconnected functioning of systems, including poverty, racism, ableism, and heteropatriarchy, within a carceral structure. Her work delves into the extension and expansion of these systems beyond their physical manifestations of cages and fences, to reveal how carcerality is imbued in policy and practice. She explores how these systems synergize to exacerbate the challenges faced by under-resourced communities, revealing a deliberate intention to undermine and further marginalize vulnerable populations.

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“In reality, we're all complex people with feelings and our own sets of baggage. I do think we are very good at self-sabotage, all of us. It's a very easy road to go down. It's safe because it's comfortable, and we know it. When you can find the ways you self-sabotage and try to stop that, it will hopefully lead to a happier life and things that are meaningful. When I was in my late twenties, I got out of a serious relationship and kind of reentered the dating scene. I was shocked by the simplification of a lot of complicated feelings around dating and how women are so easily labeled crazy, and men are so easily labeled assholes.”

Sophie Brooks is a London-born, Brooklyn-based writer and director. Her sophomore feature Oh, Hi! premiered at the 2025 Sundance Film Festival. Her debut film, The Boy Downstairs, was acquired by Film Rise and HBO at the Tribeca Film Festival. It was produced by David Brooks, Paul Brooks, and Dan Clifton and stars Zosia Mamet, Matthew Shear, and Diana Irvine.

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“I never went to school for writing. I was playing drums in a band in high school and college, trying to be a rockstar. I ultimately learned how to write first movies and then TV, mostly by watching them. And I'd put a movie on, and I would sit there with a notebook, and I'd sit there with a notebook, and I'd take notes, which I'd never look at again, by the way, but it was all for me.

That was about structure. Because I think structures is the first thing and the most important thing a writer can learn, depending on the medium that they're in. It's less so in novels, but I think definitely in TV and movies, so I would write, like: three minutes this happened, eight minutes this happened, ten minutes this happened, so that you start to internalize what audiences expect and also where you need to turn the story.”

Alexi Hawley is the creator of ABC’s The Rookie, starring Nathan Fillion, and Netflix's The Recruit, an espionage drama starring Noah Centineo that, in season two, explores the legal defense tactic 'graymail'. The Rookie, now in its seventh season, takes a look at aspects of policing often overlooked by TV procedurals. Hawley discusses the positive role police can play in communities and how he found his own autodidactic path to becoming a television showrunner. He was previously the executive producer and co-showrunner of Castle and The Following, and recently created the upcoming Hulu drama The Envoy which is inspired by journalist and producer Adam Ciralsky’s June 2024 Vanity Fair story about Roger Carstens and his team at the State Department who have brought home 70 American hostages during the past four years.

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How can we improve the way we train and recruit police officers? Can TV dramas serve as positive models for policing and help foster community?
Alexi Hawley is the creator of ABC’s The Rookie, starring Nathan Fillion, and Netflix's The Recruit, an espionage drama starring Noah Centineo that, in season two, explores the legal defense tactic 'graymail'. The Rookie, now in its seventh season, takes a look at aspects of policing often overlooked by TV procedurals. Hawley discusses the positive role police can play in communities and how he found his own autodidactic path to becoming a television showrunner. He was previously the executive producer and co-showrunner of Castle and The Following, and recently created the upcoming Hulu drama The Envoy which is inspired by journalist and producer Adam Ciralsky’s June 2024 Vanity Fair story about Roger Carstens and his team at the State Department who have brought home 70 American hostages during the past four years.

“I never went to school for writing. I was playing drums in a band in high school and college, trying to be a rockstar. I ultimately learned how to write first movies and then TV, mostly by watching them. And I'd put a movie on, and I would sit there with a notebook, and I'd sit there with a notebook, and I'd take notes, which I'd never look at again, by the way, but it was all for me.

That was about structure. Because I think structures is the first thing and the most important thing a writer can learn, depending on the medium that they're in. It's less so in novels, but I think definitely in TV and movies, so I would write, like: three minutes this happened, eight minutes this happened, ten minutes this happened, so that you start to internalize what audiences expect and also where you need to turn the story.”

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“The position of the United States in the world, economically and politically, is the weakest it has been in my lifetime. I was born in the middle of the 20th century, so I have watched the rise of the American empire and the success of American capitalism in the second half of the 20th century. However, over the last 20 years, I have watched that turn into its opposite—a decline. The decline is visible everywhere. Unless you live in the United States and consume mainstream media, there is a level of denial that will be recorded historically as one of the great examples, not just of a declining empire, which typically has people who cannot face it and who refuse to see it. You can go to Great Britain today and find quite a few people who think we still have the British Empire, even though everyone who isn't crazy knows that is silly. But we are earlier in the decline phase than the British are; they have had to endure it for a century while we have just had to do it for a couple of decades. It is fresh.”

Richard D. Wolff is the co-founder of Democracy at Work and host of their nationally syndicated show Economic Update. He was formerly professor of economics at the University of Massachusetts Amherst, Yale University, the City College of the City University of New York, and the University of Paris Sorbonne. Currently, Wolfe is a visiting professor in the Graduate Program in International Affairs of the New School University in New York City.

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When capitalism stops serving the needs of the people, what can we do to create a fairer more equitable society? What can we learn from China's success and economic growth? Are we witnessing the decline of the American Empire and what comes next?

Richard D. Wolff is the co-founder of Democracy at Work and host of their nationally syndicated show Economic Update. He was formerly professor of economics at the University of Massachusetts Amherst, Yale University, the City College of the City University of New York, and the University of Paris Sorbonne. Currently, Wolfe is a visiting professor in the Graduate Program in International Affairs of the New School University in New York City.

“The position of the United States in the world, economically and politically, is the weakest it has been in my lifetime. I was born in the middle of the 20th century, so I have watched the rise of the American empire and the success of American capitalism in the second half of the 20th century. However, over the last 20 years, I have watched that turn into its opposite—a decline. The decline is visible everywhere. Unless you live in the United States and consume mainstream media, there is a level of denial that will be recorded historically as one of the great examples, not just of a declining empire, which typically has people who cannot face it and who refuse to see it. You can go to Great Britain today and find quite a few people who think we still have the British Empire, even though everyone who isn't crazy knows that is silly. But we are earlier in the decline phase than the British are; they have had to endure it for a century while we have just had to do it for a couple of decades. It is fresh.”

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How do our personal lives influence the art we make?

JIM SHEPARD (Author of The Book of Aron, Project X, & The World to Come starring Casey Affleck, Vanessa Kirby, Katherine Waterston · Winner of the PEN New England Award, The Story Prize) explores historical human dilemmas, the emotional imagination and literature's role in extending empathetic understanding. He discusses the importance of self-education and curiosity.

LAURA EASON (Emmy-nominated Producer, Screenwriter, Playwright · Three Women · House of Cards · The Loudest Voice) on how we can live multiple lives through the arts. She highlights the significant role the arts have played in her upbringing and daily life, emphasizing the value of listening to others. As a showrunner, Laura discusses how her work in the theater, where she often adapted literary classics, prepared her for working in the writers’ room of House of Cards, adapting the creator’s vision.

BENOIT DELHOMME (Award-winning Cinematographer · Artist · Director · At Eternity’s Gate · The Theory of Everything ·The Scent of Green Papaya) talks about the intrinsic pleasure found in art and cinematography. He likens operating a handheld camera to playing an instrument and emphasizes the importance of personalizing one's craft to imbue it with soul and freedom.

JOHN PATRICK SHANLEY (Academy Award, Tony & Pulitzer Prize-winning Writer/Director · Doubt · Moonstruck · Danny and the Deep Blue Sea · Joe Versus the Volcano) recounts his personal journey from The Bronx to becoming a writer. He emphasizes the importance of embracing one's life experiences, even the seemingly ordinary ones, as gold for storytelling. Shanley reflects on his collaborations with actors Philip Seymour Hoffman and Meryl Streep and their dedication to their craft.

MARK GOTTLIEB (Vice President & Literary Agent at Trident Media Group) explores storytelling as a timeless art form, comparing books to the oil paintings of new media. He comments on the transformative power of stories, which he believes can manifest in various forms—from books to movies and TV shows.

ANTHONY WHITE (Artist) reflects on the role of visual arts in democracy and civil disobedience. Historical events like the Eureka Stockade, with its spirit of rebellion, have inspired his art.

MICHAEL BEGLER (Showrunner · Writer & Executive Producer of Perry Mason and The Knick) discusses the importance of storytelling in understanding our history and emotions. He stresses that the arts, drawing from personal experiences, help us connect on a deeper level beyond hard news.

To hear more from each guest, listen to their full interviews.

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“My mandate focuses on the protection of those trying to protect the planet. Protection of defenders is my main topic. When I'm speaking to states or companies, it's always related to cases of defenders facing threats, attacks, or penalization by companies or governments, like the recent case of Paul Watson (founder of Sea Shepherd) in Denmark… When I travel to places like Peru, Colombia, or Honduras and meet Indigenous people, I realize they have a relationship with nature that we don't have anymore. They express that the food they eat, the water they drink, and the air they breathe goes beyond just air and food; it represents what they call Pachamama or Mother Earth. This is a cosmovision shared across various communities, not only in Latin America but globally.”

Michel Forst is a prominent human rights advocate and the UN Special Rapporteur on Environmental Defenders under the Aarhus Convention. He previously served as the Special Rapporteur on Human Rights Defenders (2014–2020) and has worked with Amnesty International, UNESCO, and the Global Alliance of National Human Rights Institutions, championing protections for activists worldwide. Forst’s career is marked by his unwavering commitment to defending those at risk for advancing justice, environmental protection, and human rights globally.

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Who Defends the Defenders? In many countries, the state response to peaceful environmental protest is increasingly to repress rather than to enable and protect those who wish to speak up for the environment.

Michel Forst is a prominent human rights advocate and the UN Special Rapporteur on Environmental Defenders under the Aarhus Convention. He previously served as the Special Rapporteur on Human Rights Defenders (2014–2020) and has worked with Amnesty International, UNESCO, and the Global Alliance of National Human Rights Institutions, championing protections for activists worldwide. Forst’s career is marked by his unwavering commitment to defending those at risk for advancing justice, environmental protection, and human rights globally.

“My mandate focuses on the protection of those trying to protect the planet. Protection of defenders is my main topic. When I'm speaking to states or companies, it's always related to cases of defenders facing threats, attacks, or penalization by companies or governments, like the recent case of Paul Watson (founder of Sea Shepherd) in Denmark… When I travel to places like Peru, Colombia, or Honduras and meet Indigenous people, I realize they have a relationship with nature that we don't have anymore. They express that the food they eat, the water they drink, and the air they breathe goes beyond just air and food; it represents what they call Pachamama or Mother Earth. This is a cosmovision shared across various communities, not only in Latin America but globally.”

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"I would love to have an educational system that allowed children to remain with that sense of wonder or retain that sense of wonder and the emotionality that makes them children. In our hurry to grow up and become rational—because rational gets rewarded by a rational economy—we have distorted many parts of being human. And not just distorted, we systematically keep on suppressing and distorting it. It might be that at some point, humans—at least some humans—will realize the power and the utility of being emotional and being more natural to who they are; being feral in some ways, and embracing wildlife and nature in more naturalistic ways than we currently do through our socialized ideas about what nature is and what we can do with it. Because the socialized ideas are the ones that are destroying nature. They are making nature into an asset. Then you put a price on it, and you forget that it’s also a tree.

I feel that all this knowledge I’ve accumulated over 20 years in colleges and universities and working in those environments has diminished my own humanity. I think we are the final authors of our lives. If we look at ordinary things, we can make them extraordinary just by our sheer will and by experiencing them in a different way.

Ultimately, it changes the big picture because I see people changing jobs, changing their livelihoods, and changing their communities in order to maintain the integrity of what they want to do in these small, ordinary things."

Paul Shrivastava is Co-President of The Club of Rome and a Professor of Management and Organisations at Pennsylvania State University. He founded the UNESCO Chair for Arts and Sustainable Enterprise at ICN Business School, Nancy, France, and the ONE Division of the Academy of Management. He was the Executive Director of Future Earth, where he established its secretariat for global environmental change programs, and has published extensively on both sustainable management and crisis management.

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Less than two weeks into the new year and the world’s wealthiest 1% have already used their fair share of the global carbon budget allocated for 2025. 2024 was hottest year on record. How can we change our extractive mindset to a regenerative mindset? How can we evolve our systems from economic growth to a vision of regenerative living and eco-civilization?

Paul Shrivastava is Co-President of The Club of Rome and a Professor of Management and Organisations at Pennsylvania State University. He founded the UNESCO Chair for Arts and Sustainable Enterprise at ICN Business School, Nancy, France, and the ONE Division of the Academy of Management. He was the Executive Director of Future Earth, where he established its secretariat for global environmental change programs, and has published extensively on both sustainable management and crisis management.

“Climate change is here. It's already causing devastation to the most vulnerable populations. We are living with an extractive mindset, where we are extracting one way out of the life system of the Earth. We need to change from that extractive mindset to a regenerative mindset. And we need to change from the North Star of economic growth to a vision of eco civilizations. Those are the two main principles that I want to propose and that the Club of Rome suggests that we try to transform our current organization towards regenerative living and eco civilization.”

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“This book has a lot of the wisdom of things that feminists and queers have learned in the community about sexuality, but the book is really for anybody who is political, even those just starting out and beginning to realize that there is something wrong with the systems they live under. I want to be in movements. Our movements are made of relationships. So, if you're just getting into our movements, or if you've been here for years and have been watching the ways we hurt each other and fall apart relationally, this book is about identifying these common patterns.”

Dean Spade is an organizer, speaker, author, and professor at Seattle University's School of Law, where he teaches courses on policing, imprisonment, gender, race, and social movements. He is the author of Mutual Aid: Building Solidarity During this Crisis (and the next) and Normal Life: Administrative Violence, Critical Trans Politics and the Limits of Law. His latest book is Love in a Fcked-Up World: How to Build Relationships, Hook Up, and Raise Hell Together*.

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Why is it that we find the courage to boldly confront mainstream societal norms and structures, yet are so often unable to treat romantic partners with care and generosity? Why do we lose our principles when we become insecure, disappointed, or jealous? Why do we act our worst in sexual and romantic relationships? And why do we prioritize romantic connection above other types of relationships, like friendship?

Dean Spade is an organizer, speaker, author, and professor at Seattle University's School of Law, where he teaches courses on policing, imprisonment, gender, race, and social movements. He is the author of Mutual Aid: Building Solidarity During this Crisis (and the next) and Normal Life: Administrative Violence, Critical Trans Politics and the Limits of Law. His latest book is Love in a Fcked-Up World: How to Build Relationships, Hook Up, and Raise Hell Together*.

“This book has a lot of the wisdom of things that feminists and queers have learned in the community about sexuality, but the book is really for anybody who is political, even those just starting out and beginning to realize that there is something wrong with the systems they live under. I want to be in movements. Our movements are made of relationships. So, if you're just getting into our movements, or if you've been here for years and have been watching the ways we hurt each other and fall apart relationally, this book is about identifying these common patterns.”

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“I think the show conveys to the women watching that their lives matter. They don't have to be some gorgeous aspirational person, although Sloane absolutely fits that mold. But for others living in the Midwest, struggling and feeling unseen, hopefully, the mirrors of Lina and Maggie will help them not feel so alone and remind them that their stories are important and matter.”

Laura Eason is an Emmy-nominated producer, screenwriter, and playwright. Currently, she is the executive producer and showrunner of the Starz drama series Three Women. Based on a book by Lisa Taddeo, the series stars Shailene Woodley, DeWanda Wise, Betty Gilpin and Gabrielle Creevy. Laura’s writing and producing credits for television include The Loudest Voice and four seasons of House of Cards. Laura's many plays include the critically acclaimed Sex with Strangers. She has also adapted many classic novels for the stage, including a highly successful version of Around the World in 80 Days. She has served as Artistic Director of Lookingglass Theatre Company in Chicago, where she also acted, directed, and produced in upwards of 20 shows.

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What is love? How do the narratives we internalize shape our understanding of relationships, intimacy, and family?

Laura Eason is an Emmy-nominated producer, screenwriter, and playwright. Currently, she is the executive producer and showrunner of the Starz drama series Three Women. Based on a book by Lisa Taddeo, the series stars Shailene Woodley, DeWanda Wise, Betty Gilpin and Gabrielle Creevy. Laura’s writing and producing credits for television include The Loudest Voice and four seasons of House of Cards. Laura's many plays include the critically acclaimed Sex with Strangers. She has also adapted many classic novels for the stage, including a highly successful version of Around the World in 80 Days. She has served as Artistic Director of Lookingglass Theatre Company in Chicago, where she also acted, directed, and produced in upwards of 20 shows.

“I think the show conveys to the women watching that their lives matter. They don't have to be some gorgeous aspirational person, although Sloane absolutely fits that mold. But for others living in the Midwest, struggling and feeling unseen, hopefully, the mirrors of Lina and Maggie will help them not feel so alone and remind them that their stories are important and matter.”

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In this episode on Speaking Out of Place podcast Professor David Palumbo-Liu is delighted and privileged to be in conversation with Azucena Castro and Malcom Ferdinand. They start with a discussion of what Ferdinand calls the “double fracture”—the environmental division of humans from their connection to the biosphere, and the colonial division instantiated by white supremacism and patriarchy. He insists that we not see these two phenomena as separate, rather as intimately connected. This double fracture makes any attempts to solve either environmental violence or colonial violence ineffective. In her foreword to Ferdinand’s Decolonial Ecologies, Angela Y. Davis writes that as she read the book, she “recognized how perfectly his conceptualizations illuminate the frameworks we need for both philosophical and popular understandings of our planetary conditions today.” The conversation covers how art, film, and poetry can manifest some of those frameworks, and Azucena takes us into a deep discussion of this and reads two poems in Spanish and then in English translation and has Malcom gloss them for us.

Azucena Castro is assistant professor at Rice University in Houston. Currently, she is a Swedish Research Council Postdoctoral Researcher at the Stockholm Resilience Center, Faculty of Science, Stockholm University. She held positions as a Postdoctoral Researcher in Latin American and Caribbean cultures at Stanford University and cultural geography at the Institute of Geography, University of Buenos Aires. Her scholarly work focuses on 20th and 21st-century Latin American cultural products through the lens of climate and energy justice, multispecies resistance, and anti-extractivist critique in the artivist scenes of South America, particularly, Southern Cone and Brazil. Azucena is the author of the book Poetic Postnatures. Ecological Thinking and Politics of Strangeness in Contemporary Latin American Poetry, Series SubAtlantic at De Gruyter (2025). She has edited the volume Futuros multiespecie. Prácticas vinculantes para un planeta en emergencia (Bartlebooth. Critical Spaces, 2023), and co-edited the Essay Cluster “GeoSemantics: Earthly Memories and Inhuman Becomings in the Global South” at ASAP/Journal. As part of her engagement with community-based research and collaborative filmmaking, she has co-developed the energy justice project “No aire, no te vendas” (Penn Environmental Humanities, University of Pennsylvania) focusing on winds in ancient cosmologies and human communities in the Afro-Wayúu territories of La Guajira, Colombia in the intersection of old and green extractivism.

Malcom Ferdinand is an environmental engineer from University College London and doctor in political philosophy from Université Paris Diderot. He is now a researcher at the CNRS (IRISSO/University Paris Dauphine). At the crossroad of political philosophy, postcolonial theory and political ecology, his research focuses on the Black Atlantic and particularly the Caribbean. He explores the relations between current ecological crises and the colonial history of modernity. He published a book based on his PhD dissertation entitled Decolonial Ecology: Thinking of Ecology from the Caribbean World.( Polity 2021) that challenges classical environmental thoughts. He recently published an in-depth study of the pesticide contamination of martinique and Guadeloupe entitled S'aimer la Terre: défaire l'habiter colonial ( Seuil 2024).

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In this episode on Speaking Out of Place podcast Professor David Palumbo-Liu talks with Professor Persis Karim, co-producer and co-director of a new documentary film, The Dawn is Too Far: Stories of Iranian-American Life. She is joined by Roya Ahmadi, a student at Stanford who interned at the Center for Iranian Diaspora Studies at San Francisco State University and was part of the production team for the film. The film captures the lives of young Iranian-Americans who come to the San Francisco Bay Area around the time of the Iranian Revolution, and find themselves involved with, and helping to shape, a vibrant, international culture of politics and art. We talk about both the similarities and differences between those days and today—especially with regard to diasporic identity formation in different historical times, and the persistent need to resist racism and bigotry and act in solidarity with others.

Persis Karim is the director of the Center for Iranian Diaspora Studies at San Francisco State University, where she also teaches in the Department of Humanities and Comparative and World Literature. Since 1999, she has been actively working to expand the field of Iranian Diaspora Studies, beginning with the first anthology of Iranian writing she co-edited, A World Between: Poems, Short Stories and Essays by Iranian-Americans. She is the editor of two other anthologies of Iranian diaspora literature: Let Me Tell You Where I’ve Been: New Writing by Women of the Iranian Diaspora, and Tremors: New Fiction by Iranian-American Writers. Before coming to San Francisco State, she was a professor of English & Comparative Literature at San Jose State where she was the founder and director of the Persian Studies program, and coordinator of the Middle East Studies Minor. She has published numerous articles about Iranian diaspora literature and culture for academic publications including Iranian Studies, Comparative Studies of South Asian, African and Middle East Studies (CSSAMES), and MELUS: Multi-Ethnic Literatures of the United States. “The Dawn is Too Far: Stories of Iranian-American Life,” is her first film project (co-directed and co-produced with Soumyaa Behrens). She received her Master’s in Middle East Studies and her Ph.D. in Comparative Literature from UT Austin. She is also a poet.

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In this episode on Speaking Out of Place podcast Professor David Palumbo-Liu talks with Professor Christen A Smith on a new book she has co-edited entitled, The Dialectic is in the Sea: The Black Radical Thought of Beatrix Nascimento. Smith explains that “Beatriz Nascimento was a critical figure in Brazil’s Black Movement until her untimely death in 1995. Although she published only a handful of articles before she died and left only a few other recorded thoughts, her ideas about the symbolic relationship between quilombos (Afro-Brazilian maroon societies) and black subjectivity encourage us to re-imagine the meaning of Black liberation from a transnational, Black feminist perspective.”

The conversation delves into Nascimento’s rich and complex cultural and intellectual productions, taking in everything from her films and essays to her student papers, which Smith and her co-editors include in their volume. Nascimento was also a poet, and we are grateful that Christen graces us with reading two poems in Portuguese and then in English translation.

Christen A. Smith is Associate Professor of African American Studies and of Anthropology a Yale University. Before arriving at Yale, Smith was Associate Professor of Anthropology and African and African Diaspora Studies and Director of the Center for Women’s and Gender Studies at the University of Texas at Austin. She is the author of the book, Afro-Paradise: Blackness, Violence and Performance in Brazil (University of Illinois Press, 2016), co-author of the book The Dialectic is in the Sea: The Black Radical Thought of Beatriz Nascimento (Princeton University Press, 2023) and co-editor of Black Feminist Constellations: Black Women in Dialogue and Translation (University of Texas Press, 2023). In 2017, she started Cite Black Women.—a transnational initiative that brings awareness to society’s gross tendency to ignore Black women’s intellectual contributions and not to cite Black women inside and outside of the academy.

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How do the arts help us find purpose and meaning? What role do stories play in helping us preserve memories, connect us to each other, and answer life’s big questions?

MAX RICHTER(Award-winning Composer & Pianist · His album Sleep is the most streamed classical album of all time) reflects on the importance of creativity and how literature, music, and visual art offer windows into other people’s perceptions and experiences, fostering understanding and connection.

ETGAR KERET (Cannes Film Festival Award-winning Director · Author of Fly Already · Suddenly a Knock on the Door · The Seven Good Years) shares insights from his upbringing and how his mother's storytelling shaped his perception of creativity and authenticity.

ANTHONY JOSEPH (T.S. Eliot Prize-winning Poet, Novelist & Singer-songwriter · Author of Sonnets for Albert) discusses the fragmented documentation of Caribbean life and how his poetry attempts to piece together these fragments.

CLAUDIA FORESTIERI (Emmy Award-winning Writer · Creator of HBOMax’s Gordita Chronicles) talks about the crucial role of immigrants in building and revitalizing America, portraying them as "Born Again Americans."

BRIGITTE MUNOZ-LIEBOWITZ (Showrunner Gordita Chronicles · One Day at a Time) highlights the inevitability of adversity in life and its role in fostering growth. She underscores the importance of a positive outlook in overcoming the challenges of immigration.

JOHNJOE McFADDEN (Author of Life is Simple: How Occam’s Razor Set Science Free and Shapes the Universe · Professor of Molecular Genetics at University of Surrey) explores the communicative power of art, detailing how complex ideas and feelings can be conveyed holistically.

SHEHAN KARUNATILAKA (Booker Prize-winning Author of The Seven Moons of Maali Almeida) discusses his choice of writing in the second person to explore the spiritual dimension.

CATHERINE CURTIN (Actress · Stranger Things · Orange Is the New Black · Homeland) reflects on creative freedom, experimental theater and her work in film and television.

KATE MUETH (Founder/Artistic Director of the award-winning dance theater company The Neo-Political Cowgirls) emphasizes the importance of connecting stories to meaning and how her creative process prioritizes authenticity and personal fulfillment over industry expectations.

To hear more from each guest, listen to their full interviews.

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What can we learn from whales, the ways they communicate, and how their life cycle affects whole ecosystems, absorbing carbon and helping cool the planet? How have we contributed to the ecological degradation of the environment? How does language influence perception and our relationship to the more than human world?

NAN HAUSER (Whale Researcher; President, Center for Cetacean Research & Conservation; Director, Cook Islands Whale Research) describes how a whale protected her from a tiger shark during an underwater filming session and reflects on their emotional connection.

DAVID FARRIER (Author of Footprints: In Search of Future Fossils · Professor of the University of Edinburgh) explores the long-term impacts humans have on the environment, emphasizing the material legacies we leave behind for future generations.

DANA FISHER (Director of the Center for Environment, Community, & Equity; Author of Saving Ourselves: From Climate Shocks to Climate Action) discusses her "apocalyptic optimism," arguing that significant social and environmental change is likely to occur in response to extreme risk events, which will drive mass mobilization.

SIR GEOFF MULGAN Author of Another World is Possible: How to Reignite Social & Political Imagination; Professor of Collective Intelligence, Public Policy & Social Innovation at University College London) on the evolution and potential of the circular economy. He elaborates on how adopting practices that promote reusing and recycling can drastically reduce waste and resource consumption.

LEAH THOMAS (Author of The Intersectional Environmentalist: How to Dismantle Systems of Oppression to Protect People + Planet; Founder of @greengirlleah & The Intersectional Environmentalist platform) advocates for an inclusive approach that addresses the specific environmental injustices faced by marginalized communities and encourages incorporating social justice into environmental advocacy.

MAYA VAN ROSSUM (Founder of Green Amendments For The Generations; Leader of Delaware Riverkeeper Network; Author of The Green Amendment: The People's Fight for a Clean, Safe, and Healthy Environment) underscores the profound impact of pollution and environmental degradation on human lives and stresses the significance of storytelling that address these deep-rooted issues.

MICHAEL CRONIN (Author of Eco-Travel: Journeying in the Age of the Anthropocene; Senior Researcher at the Trinity Centre for Literary & Cultural Translation) argues for horizontal relationships with the environment, moving away from hierarchical views, and emphasizes the need to recognize the non-human world.

To hear more from each guest, listen to their full interviews.

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How can we shape technology’s impact on society? How do social media algorithms influence our democratic processes and personal well-being? Can AI truly emulate human creativity? And how will its pursuit of perfection change the art we create?

Daniel Susskind (Economist · Oxford & King’s College London · Author of Growth: A Reckoning · A World Without Work) shares insights on the nature of growth driven by technological progress. He contends that while technology can accelerate growth, its impacts can be consciously directed to reduce environmental damage and social inequalities. According to Susskind, the current trajectory of technological progress needs reevaluation to mitigate potential adverse effects on future working lives.

Arash Abizadeh (Professor of Political Science · McGill University Author of Hobbes and the Two Faces of Ethics · Associate Editor · Free & Equal) explores the ethical tensions between democratic needs and commercial imperatives of social media platforms. He highlights how algorithms designed to maximize engagement often foster outrage and fear, contrasting these commercial objectives with the requirements for a healthy democratic public sphere.

Debora Cahn (Creator & Executive Producer of Netflix’s The Diplomat starring Keri Russell & Rufus Sewell · Exec. Producer Homeland · Grey’s Anatomy · Vinyl · Co-Producer The West Wing) toggles between apprehension and optimism about emerging technologies like AI. She reflects on her father's experience with nuclear technology and ponders the unpredictable impacts of AI, drawing parallels with the unforeseen transformation of the internet.

Julia F. Christensen (Neuroscientist - Author of The Pathway To Flow: The New Science of Harnessing Creativity to Heal and Unwind the Body & Mind) examines the rise of AI and its influence on aesthetics in the arts. She argues that technology drives creators towards superficial beauty conforming to popular standards, thereby cluttering the mind and fostering an obsession with perfection fueled by dopamine signals.

Julian Lennon (Singer-songwriter · Documentary Filmmaker · Founder of The White Feather Foundation Photographer/Author of Life’s Fragile Moments) discusses AI's potential in the medical field, highlighting recent advancements that are paving the way for novel treatments and cures. While acknowledging the importance of copyright issues, he remains optimistic about AI’s positive impact on healthcare.

Brian David Johnson(Author of The Future You: How to Create the Life You Always Wanted · Director of the Arizona State University’s Threatcasting Lab Futurist in Residence · ASU’s Center for Science & the Imagination) emphasizes the importance of maintaining a human-centric approach to technology. He questions the purpose behind technological advancements, urging developers to always consider the human impact and clarify their objectives.

To hear more from each guest, listen to their full interviews.

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How can we be more engaged global citizens? How do we fight for truth and protect democracy in a post-truth world? What influence do billionaires have on politics, journalism, and the technology that shapes our lives?

Lee McIntyre (Philosopher · Author of On Disinformation: How To Fight For Truth and Protect Democracy) examines democracy, and science denial. He delves into how continuous disinformation campaigns not only promote falsehoods but ultimately aim to demoralize the public by making them doubtful about the existence of truth.

Darryl Cunningham (Cartoonist · Author of Elon Musk: Investigation into a New Master of the World) on the problematic nature of extreme wealth concentration among billionaires and the political power they wield.

Debora Cahn (Television creator, writer, and Emmy-nominated showrunner of Netflix’s The Diplomat) on how being a child of Holocaust survivors sparked her interest in moral questions and complex characters.

Julian Lennon (Singer-songwriter and documentary filmmaker, founder of The White Feather Foundation) on the need for supporting education and safety for girls in Kenya.

Arash Abizadeh (Philosopher · Assoc. Editor of Free & Equal) on wealth inequality and how economic disparities create social unrest and political manipulation, suggesting that tackling inequality is essential for the healthy functioning of democratic societies.

Daniel Susskind (Economist · Author of Growth: A Reckoning) explores how involving ordinary citizens in deliberation processes in mini-publics and citizen assemblies can help resolve complex political issues like nuclear policy and climate change.

Carlos Moreno (Originator of the 15-Minute City concept) emphasizes the importance of proximity and social interaction in urban design, highlighting how it counteracts social isolation, reduces radicalization, and helps foster more inclusive, tolerant communities.

To hear more from each guest, listen to their full interviews.

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How can we learn to speak the language of the Earth and cultivate our intuitive intelligence?  What lessons can we learn from non-human animals about living in greater harmony with nature?  How have we contributed to making our planet a more dangerous place, and how can we work to save it?

COLIN STEEN (CEO of Legacy Agripartners) reflects on his upbringing on a farm in Weldon, Saskatchewan. He highlights the rewarding yet challenging nature of farm life, emphasizing the importance of agriculture and its impact on shaping one's responsibilities and successes in life.

JILL HEINERTH (Canadian cave diver, underwater explorer, writer, photographer, and filmmaker) discusses her experiences exploring underwater caves. She talks about the collaborative nature of her work and her reflections on our connected planet.

NOAH WILSON-RICH (Co-Founder and CEO of The Best Bees Company, Author of The Bee: A Natural History) explores his fascination with bees and their significance to human society. He shares the broader lessons humans can learn from these pollinators.

INGRID NEWKIRK (Founder and President of PETA) discusses the fascinating world of animal communication. She explores the ways animals interact and communicate with each other, the complexity of animal languages and their significance in the animal kingdom.

NEIL GRIMMER (Brand President of SOURCE Global, innovator of the SOURCE Hydropanel) highlights the critical issue of water insecurity and scarcity facing the global population. He underscores the urgent need for innovation and technology deployment to address the increasing water stress and ensure sustainable water resources.

CARL SAFINA (Ecologist, Founding President of Safina Center) offers a critical perspective on human impact on the environment. He emphasizes that while humans are technologically advanced, we are often reckless in our use of these capabilities, leading to severe planetary problems that we struggle to solve.

RICHARD VEVERS (Founder and CEO of The Ocean Agency) stresses the importance of coral reefs as foundational species that support diverse marine ecosystems. He warns of the dire consequences of coral reef destruction and advocates for the protection and conservation of these essential habitats.

WALTER STAHEL (Founding Father of the Circular Economy, Founder-Director of the Product-Life Institute) discusses the necessity of adopting a circular economy to tackle environmental challenges. He argues that creating a low-waste, low-carbon, and low-anthropogenic mass society is essential for preserving natural resources and reducing environmental impacts.

JOELLE GERGIS (IPCC Lead Author, Award-winning climate scientist and writer, Author of Humanity’s Moment: A Climate Scientist’s Case for Hope) shares insights on coping with the emotional burden of climate change. She highlights the importance of maintaining hope, connecting with like-minded individuals, and finding meaning amidst the ongoing environmental crisis.

JAMES BROWNING (Founder of advocacy group F Minus) explains the insidious nature of fossil fuel lobbying. He reveals how lobbyists representing both harmful industries and beneficial causes can complicate efforts to raise awareness and address the climate crisis effectively.

PAULA PINHO (Director of the European Commission’s DG for Energy) encourages active participation in nurturing values such as peace, democracy, and sustainability. She advocates for using social media and other means to speak out and engage in meaningful discussions to promote these values.

To hear more from each guest, listen to their full interviews.

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What influence do billionaires have on politics, journalism, and the technology that shapes our lives? What drives people to seek absolute power, and how can we hold them accountable?

Darryl  Cunningham is a cartoonist and author of Science Tales, Psychiatric Tales, The Age of Selfishness, and Billionaires: The Lives of the Rich and Powerful. Cunningham is also well-known for his comic strips, which have been featured on the websites Forbidden Planet and Act-i-vate collective, among others. others. His more recent work includes a graphic novel on Elon Musk, titled Elon Musk: Investigation into a New Master of the World.

“No one should be a billionaire because it's damaging. There's a certain level of wealth that's damaging to a country. Billionaires have so much wealth that they have enormous political power, which is undemocratic. There should be a ceiling on wealth. I have nothing against people becoming millionaires or even multi-millionaires. But multi-billionaires are incredibly bad for all of us. If you have so much money that you can buy an entire political party, that's a thing that shouldn't exist.”

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Where does our intuition come from? How are lifelong creative partnerships formed and what role do friendship and personal connection play? How do our personal lives influence the art we make?

Erland Cooper (Scottish composer, producer, and multi-instrumentalist) explores the emotional and transformative effects of music and visual arts. He underscores how music can transport individuals to different places and evoke emotional responses and relates his personal experiences of homesickness for his native Orkney.

Debora Cahn (television creator, writer, and Emmy-nominated showrunner and executive producer of Netflix’s The Diplomat) discusses the craft of long-form storytelling in television. She highlights the process of building immersive worlds and the challenge of integrating ideas into narratives that resonate with audiences on a universal level.

Julian Lennon (singer-songwriter and documentary filmmaker, founder of The White Feather Foundation, and photographer/author of Life’s Fragile Moments) reflects on the influence of his heroes and teachers and remembers the thing his mother taught him. He speaks about the importance of empathy, respect, and positivity, and how these values shape his creative and humanitarian efforts.

Ed Zwick (Academy-Award-winning writer, director, and producer, and author of Hits, Flops, and Other Illusions) analyzes the elusive nature of talent and the magical moments in casting where undeniable potential shines through. Zwick shares insights into the subtle and unspoken aspects of directing that elevate a performance and bring a story to life.

Chris Blackwell (Founder of Island Records and inductee of the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame) highlights the importance of instinct in recognizing and nurturing talent. He recounts his initial hesitation before signing Cat Stevens to Island Records. He shares how artistic partnerships grow out of personal connections and friendship.

Joy Gorman Wettels (Executive producer of UnPrisoned and the founder of Joy Coalition) highlights stigmatized social issues through her storytelling. She emphasizes that humanizing these issues by creating relatable, empathetic characters can lead to real-world change and understanding.

Rick Carnes (Songwriter and President of the Songwriters Guild of America) discusses the fundamental elements of songwriting and how music marks significant moments in people’s lives. He elaborates on his creative process and the importance of mindfulness and emotional awareness in writing meaningful songs.

To hear more from each guest, listen to their full interviews.

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How does art change the way we see and experience the world? Art has the power to offer transformative experiences, but what about the lives of artists who give so much of themselves? How can we balance creativity and personal well-being while still making work that is true and meaningful?

David Rubin (President of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts & Sciences 2019-2022 · Casting Director) discusses the importance of fostering an international presence for the Motion Picture Academy. He highlights how inviting filmmakers from around the world has enriched the community and emphasizes the power of collaboration in the filmmaking industry.

Later, he reflects on his journey in casting, the challenges younger people face in finding their niche, and the importance of patience and open-mindedness in discovering one's career path. Rubin highlights how negative experiences can also be valuable learning points.

Jericho Brown (Pulitzer Prize-winning Poet: The Tradition · Editor of How We Do It: Black Writers on Craft, Practice, and Skill) shares his process of writing poetry, emphasizing the element of discovery and the unexpected directions a poem can take. He shares his advice to young poets, how they should aim to create original works that could become lasting cultural touchstones.

Julian Lennon (Singer-songwriter · Documentary Filmmaker · Founder of The White Feather Foundation · Photographer/Author of Life’s Fragile Moments) reflects on the emotional highs and lows experienced by creatives. He discusses the significance of finding balance and happiness through artistic and charitable expression.

Sam Levy (Award-winning Cinematographer of Lady Bird · Frances Ha · While We’re Young) explores the art of cinematography. Levy underscores the importance of intention in every scene, whether it’s to highlight a character’s emotions or to convey the unspoken elements of the story.

Julia F. Christensen (Neuroscientist - Author of The Pathway To Flow: The New Science of Harnessing Creativity to Heal and Unwind the Body & Mind) discusses transformative experiences through art and literature. She explains how aesthetic emotions can lead to profound changes in perception and understanding, drawing from both personal and scientific insights.

To hear more from each guest, listen to their full interviews.

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This episode explores the enduring power of storytelling to shape our world and illuminate the human experience. Writers Neil Gaiman, Ada Limón, Jericho Brown, E.J. Koh, Marge Piercy, and Max Stossel discuss creativity, resilience, and the power of words to heal and bring people together.

Neil Gaiman (Writer, Producer, Showrunner · The Sandman, American Gods, Good Omens, Coraline) explores the secret lives of writers, reflecting on the masks they wear in the pursuit of truth and beauty.

Jericho Brown (Pulitzer Prize-winning Poet: The Tradition · Editor of How We Do It: Black Writers on Craft, Practice, and Skill) shares “Foreday in the Morning”, highlighting the hard work and resilience in Black America. He examines the vernacular of his poetry and how it intertwines themes of race, nationality, and familial love.

Ada Limón (U.S. Poet Laureate · The Hurting Kind, The Carrying) presents an "apocalyptic love poem" that questions the intersection of despair and hope in today's changing world. She reflects deeply on the personal and universal struggles of finding beauty amidst environmental and existential crises.

Marge Piercy (Award-winning Novelist, Poet & Activist) delves into the emotional weight of words and memories, the terror of child separation, and the impending doom facing our world due to environmental destruction and political negligence.

E.J. Koh (Award-Winning Memoirist & Poet · The Magical Language of Others · A Lesser Love) recounts a haunting family history from Jeju Island in Korea, emphasizing the lasting impacts of trauma and the collective memory of ancestral sufferings.

Max Stossel (Award-winning Poet, Filmmaker, Speaker, Creator of Words That Move) uses the metaphor of a boxing ring to discuss the complexities of human conflict and connection, encouraging a shift from adversarial relationships to collaborative problem-solving.

To hear more from each guest, listen to their full interviews.

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“I think a lot of joy comes from helping others. One of the things that I've been really focusing on is finding that balance in life, what’s real and what’s true and what makes you happy. How can you help other people feel the same and have a happier life? I think whatever that takes. So if that's charity, if that's photography, if that's documentary, if that's music, and I can do it, then I'm going to do it.

From traveling, especially in Ethiopia, Kenya, and even South America, we just see these scenarios and situations where they don't have enough support or finances. Anything I’m involved in, a good percentage goes to The White Feather Foundation. From what I witnessed, I just wanted to be able to help. My best teacher ever was Mum because I watched her live through life with dignity, grace, respect, and empathy. To me, those are some of the key things that are most important in living life. I think you have to love everybody and yourself. Respect is a real key issue, not only for people but for this world that we live in, Mother Earth. It's of key importance that we honor and respect this beautiful little blue ball that we live on.”

Julian Lennon is a Grammy-nominated singer-songwriter, photographer, documentary filmmaker, and NYTimes bestselling author of the Touch the Earth children’s book trilogy. This autumn, Whispers – A Julian Lennon Retrospective is being presented at Le Stanze della Fotografia, culminating in the publication of Life’s Fragile Moments, his first photography book. It features a compilation of images that span over two decades of Lennon's unique life, career, adventures, and philanthropy. He founded The White Feather Foundation in 2007, whose key initiatives are education, health, conservation, and the protection of indigenous cultures. He was the executive producer of Kiss the Ground and other environmental documentaries and was named a Peace Laureate by UNESCO in 2020.

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Photo credit: © 2024, Julian Lennon. All rights reserved.
Life’s Fragile Moments, published by teNeues, www.teneues.com, August 2024. 27,5 x 34 cm |10 5/6 x 13 3/8 in., 240 pages, Hardcover, approx. 200 color photographs, texts English & German ISBN: 978-3-96171-614-2

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What is the power of photography? How do images and songs bookmark our lives, reminding us of what we care about, who we love, and what it means to be alive?

Julian Lennon is a Grammy-nominated singer-songwriter, photographer, documentary filmmaker, and NYTimes bestselling author of the Touch the Earth children’s book trilogy. This autumn, Whispers – A Julian Lennon Retrospective is being presented at Le Stanze della Fotografia, culminating in the publication of Life’s Fragile Moments, his first photography book. It features a compilation of images that span over two decades of Lennon's unique life, career, adventures, and philanthropy. He founded The White Feather Foundation in 2007, whose key initiatives are education, health, conservation, and the protection of indigenous cultures. He was the executive producer of Kiss the Ground and other environmental documentaries and was named a Peace Laureate by UNESCO in 2020.

“I think a lot of joy comes from helping others. One of the things that I've been really focusing on is finding that balance in life, what’s real and what’s true and what makes you happy. How can you help other people feel the same and have a happier life? I think whatever that takes. So if that's charity, if that's photography, if that's documentary, if that's music, and I can do it, then I'm going to do it.

From traveling, especially in Ethiopia, Kenya, and even South America, we just see these scenarios and situations where they don't have enough support or finances. Anything I’m involved in, a good percentage goes to The White Feather Foundation. From what I witnessed, I just wanted to be able to help. My best teacher ever was Mum because I watched her live through life with dignity, grace, respect, and empathy. To me, those are some of the key things that are most important in living life. I think you have to love everybody and yourself. Respect is a real key issue, not only for people but for this world that we live in, Mother Earth. It's of key importance that we honor and respect this beautiful little blue ball that we live on.”

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Photo credit: © 2021 Marilyn Clark

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How and when will we transition to a clean energy future? How have wetlands become both crucial carbon sinks and colossal methane emitters in a warming world? What lessons can we learn from non-human animals about living in greater harmony with nature?

Richard Black (Author of The Future of Energy · Fmr. BBC Environment Correspondent · Director of Policy & Strategy · Global Clean Energy Thinktank · Ember) addresses the substantial economic impact of fossil fuel subsidies, noting that the actual costs, when including climate change damages, reach up to six or seven trillion dollars annually, overshadowing the relatively small climate finance provided by Western governments.

Euan Nisbet (Earth Systems Scientist · Royal Holloway University of London) explores the role of methane in the atmosphere, its historical importance in maintaining the planet’s temperature, and its current contribution to global warming. He explains the sources of methane, including natural processes and human activities, and discusses recent trends and challenges tied to rising methane levels.

Julie Pierce (Vice President of Strategy & Planning · Minnesota Power) highlights her company's significant strides in sustainability. She outlines Minnesota Power's decade-long journey towards decarbonization, noting that they have transitioned from a 95% fossil-based portfolio to sourcing 50-60% of their energy from clean sources, including wind, solar, and hydropower.

Arash Abizadeh (Professor of Political Science · McGill University Author ofHobbes and the Two Faces of Ethics · Associate Editor · Free & Equal) reflects on the future we are leaving for the next generations. He underscores the social and political challenges of ensuring that the technologies and resources needed to adapt to climate change are distributed equitably across all societies.

Daniel Susskind(Economist · Oxford & King’s College London · Author of Growth: A Reckoning · A World Without Work) discusses the critical role of technological progress in driving economic growth. He advocates for a shift toward technologies that not only enhance prosperity but also protect the environment and promote social equity.

Ian Robertson(Author of How Confidence Works: The New Science of Self-belief · Co-Director of the Global Brain Health Institute · Co-Leader of The BrainHealth Project) calls for young people to connect with nature and develop mastery over their minds. He envisions a future where individuals can access the joy of being conscious, embodied beings in a healthy, natural world.

Ingrid Newkirk(Founder & President of PETA · People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals) emphasizes the shared traits between humans and other animals, advocating for a compassionate approach to all living beings. She urges listeners to recognize the personhood in animals and to treat them with respect and empathy.

This episode brings together diverse voices discussing critical environmental and ethical issues. From the economic burden of fossil fuel subsidies to the equitable distribution of climate adaptation resources, the importance of technological progress, and the need for the ethical treatment of animals.
To hear more from each guest, listen to their full interviews.

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“So there's something about this flowy synchronousness in nature and us as part of that nature that has been efficient, for example, for the social connectedness of beings. So if I feel more connected to you, I will be more willing to do something for you to collaborate with you and funny enough, we seem to be more coordinated and also solving problems.
This brain-body connection is incredibly important to understand. We don't have one brain for art and one brain for all other life; it's all one. Through the behaviors that we enact, whether good or bad for health, it's all one. We have a say in how our brain activates. One final thing you said about natural spaces: impressive work on the neuroscience of human-nature interaction has shown that when we are among trees, among birds, in nature, there is a biophilic effect. Our body and brain like it, and it manifests in a specific activation pattern in the brain—alpha band activity—and it is a restorative activation pattern. When we are in nature, something in evolution does that when we're there, our brain resets. Restoration means we get rid of toxins; it means that our brain gets this default mode network activation that is so good for resetting us, taking us out of the here and now. If we are in urban landscapes, even if they are very beautiful to look at—architecture, I love it, and we must look at it, and it is awe-inspiring—we do need to make sure to be in nature regularly because otherwise, our body cannot relax.”

Dr. Julia F. Christensen is a Danish neuroscientist and former dancer currently working as a senior scientist at the Max Planck Institute for Empirical Aesthetics in Germany. She studied psychology, human evolution, and neuroscience in France, Spain and the UK. For her postdoctoral training, she worked in international, interdisciplinary research labs at University College London, City, University London and the Warburg Institute, London and was awarded a postdoctoral Newton International Fellowship by the British Academy. Her new book The Pathway to Flow is about the science of flow, why our brain needs it and how to create the right habits in our brain to get it.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-julia-f-christensen-36539a144https://www.instagram.com/dr.julia.f.christensen?igsh=cHZkODgxczJqZmxl

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How can we unlock a state of flow in our daily lives? How does connecting with nature influence our mental and physical well-being? How do movement, dance and play help us feel more creative, connected, and content?

Dr. Julia F. Christensen is a Danish neuroscientist and former dancer currently working as a senior scientist at the Max Planck Institute for Empirical Aesthetics in Germany. She studied psychology, human evolution, and neuroscience in France, Spain and the UK. For her postdoctoral training, she worked in international, interdisciplinary research labs at University College London, City, University London and the Warburg Institute, London and was awarded a postdoctoral Newton International Fellowship by the British Academy. Her new book The Pathway to Flow is about the science of flow, why our brain needs it and how to create the right habits in our brain to get it.

“So there's something about this flowy synchronousness in nature and us as part of that nature that has been efficient, for example, for the social connectedness of beings. So if I feel more connected to you, I will be more willing to do something for you to collaborate with you and funny enough, we seem to be more coordinated and also solving problems.
This brain-body connection is incredibly important to understand. We don't have one brain for art and one brain for all other life; it's all one. Through the behaviors that we enact, whether good or bad for health, it's all one. We have a say in how our brain activates. One final thing you said about natural spaces: impressive work on the neuroscience of human-nature interaction has shown that when we are among trees, among birds, in nature, there is a biophilic effect. Our body and brain like it, and it manifests in a specific activation pattern in the brain—alpha band activity—and it is a restorative activation pattern. When we are in nature, something in evolution does that when we're there, our brain resets. Restoration means we get rid of toxins; it means that our brain gets this default mode network activation that is so good for resetting us, taking us out of the here and now. If we are in urban landscapes, even if they are very beautiful to look at—architecture, I love it, and we must look at it, and it is awe-inspiring—we do need to make sure to be in nature regularly because otherwise, our body cannot relax.”

https://www.linkedin.com/in/dr-julia-f-christensen-36539a144https://www.instagram.com/dr.julia.f.christensen?igsh=cHZkODgxczJqZmxl

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What does it mean to live a good life? How can the arts help us learn to speak the language of the Earth and cultivate our intuitive intelligence? What is the power of mentorship for forging character and creative vision? How can we hold onto our cultural heritage and traditions, while preparing students for the needs of the 21st century?

Alan Poul (Emmy & Golden Globe-winning Executive Producer · Director · Six Feet Under · Tales of the City · Tokyo Vice · My So-Called Life) shares his personal journey and the importance of mentorship in shaping one's creative path. He discusses his experiences with influential figures such as Stephen Sondheim, Paul Schrader, and Robert Wilson, emphasizing the value of learning from those you admire.

Rupert Sheldrake (Biologist · Author of The Science Delusion · The Presence of the Past · Ways to Go Beyond and Why They Work) explores the significance of cultural and religious traditions in education. He argues that knowing the open questions in science, integrating arts, and learning by heart are crucial for a well-rounded education.

Jericho Brown (Pulitzer Prize-winning Poet · Director of Creative Writing Program at Emory University · Author of The Tradition · The New Testament) emphasizes the power and agency that young writers have to create change. He encourages persistence and the importance of trying, despite the fear of failure.

Sy Montgomery (Naturalist · Author of The Soul of an Octopus · The Hawk’s Way · Of Time and Turtles: Mending the World, Shell by Shattered Shell) reflects on how animals have been her mentors and teachers. From her Scottish Terrier, Molly, to wild emus in Australia, she shares how her interactions with animals have guided her career and life choices.

Manuela Lucá-Dazio (Exec. Director of the Pritzker Architecture Prize · Fmr. Exec. Director of Venice Biennale · Dept. of Visual Arts & Architecture) discusses the necessity of reconnecting with cultural heritage and expanding educational tools. She advocates for a more imaginative approach to integrating different fields of knowledge and teaching methods.

Jeffrey D. Sachs (Economist · President of UN Sustainable Development Solutions Network · Director of Center for Sustainable Development · Columbia University) highlights the global consensus on Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs) and the critical importance of education. He specifically advocates for SDG 4, which focuses on inclusive and equitable quality education for all.

Todd B. Kashdan (Psychologist · APA Award-winning Author of The Art of Insubordination: How to Dissent and Defy Effectively · Curious? · The Upside of Your Dark Side · Leading Authority on Well-being, Curiosity, Courage & Resilience) analyzes the shortcomings of the current education system. He stresses the need to teach critical thinking and develop superior information-gathering strategies.

Tiokasin Ghosthorse (Founder · Host · Exec. Director of First Voices Radio · Founder of Akantu Intelligence · Master Musician of the Ancient Lakota Flute) offers a unique perspective on our connection to the Earth. He delves into Indigenous wisdom about living in harmony with nature, our ancestors, and recognizing the timeless energy around us.

Erland Cooper (Songwriter · Producer · Multi-instrumentalist · Composer of Folded Landscapes) reminisces about his upbringing surrounded by nature and traditional folk music. He shares how these elements have influenced his work and creative process.

Peter Singer (Philosopher · Author of Animal Liberation · Founder of The Life You Can Save) examines the core philosophical questions about living a good life. He discusses the principles of Effective Altruism and the importance of using our resources wisely to make the world a better place.

To hear more from each guest, listen to their full interviews.

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Have we entered what Earth scientists call a “termination event,” and what can we do to avoid the worst outcomes? How can we look beyond GDP and develop new metrics that balance growth with human flourishing and environmental well-being? How can the 15-minute city model revolutionize urban living, enhance health, and reduce our carbon footprint?

Euan Nisbet (Earth Systems Scientist - Royal Holloway University of London) analyzes historical patterns that point to a potential termination event and emphasizes the urgency of addressing abrupt climate changes.

Daniel Susskind(Economist - Oxford & King’s College London - Author of Growth: A Reckoning - A World Without Work) discusses the economic trade-offs involved in pursuing net-zero emissions and the growing public discontent with the costs.

Carlos Moreno (Originator of the 15-Minute City concept - Author of The 15-Minute City: A Solution to Saving Our Time & Our Planet) explores how the 15-minute city model can enhance urban living, promote local commerce, and reduce our carbon footprint.

Richard Black(Author of The Future of Energy - Former BBC Environment Correspondent - Director of Policy & Strategy - Global Clean Energy Thinktank - Ember) explains the future energy landscape, critiques the contributions of oil and gas companies to the clean energy transition, and emphasizes the need for a realistic clean energy transition.

Carissa Carter (Academic Director at Stanford's d.school - Co-author of Assembling Tomorrow: A Guide to Designing a Thriving Future) highlights the importance of people critically interpreting climate data and understanding its emotional impact.

Gordon Lambert (World Economic Forum Global Council - Energy and Sustainability - Former Member of Alberta’s Climate Change Advisory Panel) shares his personal reflections on the harmony of nature and the necessity of aligning business strategies with renewable energy goals.

Dr. Ben Shofty(Functional Neurosurgeon - Professor - University of Utah) discusses the health benefits of exposure to nature and its positive impact on well-being and creativity.

Julia F. Christensen (Neuroscientist - Author of The Pathway To Flow: The New Science of Harnessing Creativity to Heal and Unwind the Body & Mind) explores the neuroscience behind human interaction with nature and its restorative effects on the brain.

The episode examines critical issues surrounding climate change, economic growth, and urban development. Euan Nisbet highlighted the urgency of addressing abrupt climate changes, while Daniel Susskind shed light on the economic complexities of achieving net-zero emissions. Carlos Moreno presented the revolutionary concept of the 15-minute city, and Richard Black emphasized the need for a realistic clean energy transition. Carissa Carter underscored the importance of understanding and visualizing climate data, while Gordon Lambert, Dr. Julia F. Christensen, and Dr. Ben Shofty provided personal and scientific insights into the benefits of integrating nature into our lives. These conversations give us a deeper look into the challenges and potential solutions for creating a sustainable future.

To hear more from each guest, listen to their full interviews.

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"I had a tumultuous upbringing as a kid. My parents moved around quite a bit. I was a child in North America for many years, and then we went to Iran for five years. We were there during the revolution, so I saw a lot of political activity and a lot of tumult as a young child. Then we came back to Canada where I grew up. The experience of escaping a dangerous political situation is definitely something that has marked me as a child and drew me to thinking about issues of social justice, political stability, and different types of political regimes.

As a political theorist or a political philosopher, we think very hard about empirical questions in social science and the foundational philosophical questions. That's something that really drew me to this field. Philosophical investigation is a discipline that trains people to think analytically, clearly, and rigorously. It's the kind of thinking required in all domains of the sciences, in all domains of the social sciences, and in many aspects of life to be able to think critically."

Arash Abizadeh is the R.B. Angus Professor of Political Science at McGill University. His research has focused on democratic theory, including topics such as immigration and border control. Abizadeh also specializes in 17th and 18th century philosophy and has recently published the book Hobbes and the Two Faces of Ethics. He is currently working on a book about social and political power and is the Associate Editor of Free & Equal: a Journal of Ethics and Public Affairs.

https://abizadeh.wixsite.com/arash
www.cambridge.org/core/books/hobbes-and-the-two-faces-of-ethics/B565348CE9B53945F4F962784A5842C2
https://freeandequaljournal.org

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How is economic inequality undermining our democratic systems? In what ways is social media reshaping political landscapes and democracy? Can we design political institutions that adapt to rapid social and technological changes while remaining stable? How is journalism critical for the health of our democracies?

Arash Abizadeh is the R.B. Angus Professor of Political Science at McGill University. His research has focused on democratic theory, including topics such as immigration and border control. Abizadeh also specializes in 17th and 18th century philosophy and has recently published the book Hobbes and the Two Faces of Ethics. He is currently working on a book about social and political power and is the Associate Editor of Free & Equal: a Journal of Ethics and Public Affairs.

“There is a tremendous tension between healthy democracy and deep economic inequalities. I don't think that, in the long run, democracies can survive in a healthy way unless we address the problem of economic inequalities. If we have individuals who are living day to day, on the one hand, and we have other individuals who are billionaires in our societies, on the other hand, it will be very difficult for us to have a genuine democracy.”

https://abizadeh.wixsite.com/arash
www.cambridge.org/core/books/hobbes-and-the-two-faces-of-ethics/B565348CE9B53945F4F962784A5842C2
https://freeandequaljournal.org

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“We have a choice to change the nature of growth. How we can have growth that is more respectful of place, doesn’t cause as much damage to the environment, doesn't lead to as large inequalities in society, doesn’t disrupt politics, doesn't undermine the availability of good work? We ought to pursue this morally enriched GDP measure which better reflects what we really value and care about as a society.”

Daniel Susskind is a Research Professor in Economics at King's College London and a Senior Research Associate at the Institute for Ethics in AI at Oxford University. He is the author of A World without Work and co-author of the bestselling The Future of the Professions. Previously, he worked in various roles in the British Government - in the Prime Minister’s Strategy Unit, in the Policy Unit in 10 Downing Street, and in the Cabinet Office. His latest book is Growth: A Reckoning.

www.danielsusskind.com
www.penguin.co.uk/books/446381/growth-by-susskind-daniel/9780241542309

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How can we look beyond GDP and develop new metrics that balance growth with human flourishing and environmental well-being? How can we be more engaged global citizens? In this age of AI, what does it really mean to be human? And how are our technologies transforming us?

Daniel Susskind is a Research Professor in Economics at King's College London and a Senior Research Associate at the Institute for Ethics in AI at Oxford University. He is the author of A World without Work and co-author of the bestselling The Future of the Professions. Previously, he worked in various roles in the British Government - in the Prime Minister’s Strategy Unit, in the Policy Unit in 10 Downing Street, and in the Cabinet Office. His latest book is Growth: A Reckoning.

“We have a choice to change the nature of growth. How we can have growth that is more respectful of place, doesn’t cause as much damage to the environment, doesn't lead to as large inequalities in society, doesn’t disrupt politics, doesn't undermine the availability of good work? We ought to pursue this morally enriched GDP measure which better reflects what we really value and care about as a society.”

www.danielsusskind.com
www.penguin.co.uk/books/446381/growth-by-susskind-daniel/9780241542309

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“Education is at the core of our transformations. Nelson Mandela in South Africa said, “We have three powerful weapons for transforming our life. Education, education, education.” I’ve been a university professor for more than 40 years, and I have observed the process of transformation through different generations. When we have these capabilities for transmitting more humanistic values and for discussing with the new generation, we need to find a sense of life. We need to find a sense of belonging to this humanity. But to have this sense of life, we need to find a sense of our local community, UN-Habitat and the United Nations in charge of cities, for the next World Urban Forum taking place in Cairo in November, has taken a motto: It All Starts at Home. It all starts in our local life. To be aware that all starts at home, all starts in our local community, is to be aware that we constantly need real-life contacts for dating and for this humanistic process. Education is not only about going to school. Education is to constantly have an open mindset, at home with my family, in my building, with the others in the street, in the squares, and in different activities. The otherness should be a permanent lifestyle for transforming our individual behavior and transforming our relationships. This is the sense of this proximity.”

Carlos Moreno was born in Colombia in 1959 and moved to France at the age of 20. He is known for his influential "15-Minute City" concept, embraced by Paris Mayor Anne Hidalgo and leading cities around the world. Scientific Director of the "Entrepreneurship - Territory - Innovation" Chair at the Paris Sorbonne Business School, he is an international expert of the Human Smart City, and a Knight of the French Legion of Honour. He is recipient of the Obel Award and the UN-Habitat Scroll of Honour. His latest book is The 15-Minute City: A Solution to Saving Our Time and Our Planet.

https://www.moreno-web.net/
https://www.wiley.com/en-us/The+15-Minute+City%3A+A+Solution+to+Saving+Our+Time+and+Our+Planet-p-9781394228140

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How can the 15-minute city model revolutionize urban living, enhance wellbeing, and reduce our carbon footprint? Online shopping is turning cities into ghost towns. We can now buy anything anywhere anytime. How can we learn to stop scrolling and start strolling and create more livable, sustainable communities we are happy to call home.

Carlos Moreno was born in Colombia in 1959 and moved to France at the age of 20. He is known for his influential "15-Minute City" concept, embraced by Paris Mayor Anne Hidalgo and leading cities around the world. Scientific Director of the "Entrepreneurship - Territory - Innovation" Chair at the Paris Sorbonne Business School, he is an international expert of the Human Smart City, and a Knight of the French Legion of Honour. He is recipient of the Obel Award and the UN-Habitat Scroll of Honour. His latest book is The 15-Minute City: A Solution to Saving Our Time and Our Planet.

“Education is at the core of our transformations. Nelson Mandela in South Africa said, “We have three powerful weapons for transforming our life. Education, education, education.” I’ve been a university professor for more than 40 years, and I have observed the process of transformation through different generations. When we have these capabilities for transmitting more humanistic values and for discussing with the new generation, we need to find a sense of life. We need to find a sense of belonging to this humanity. But to have this sense of life, we need to find a sense of our local community, UN-Habitat and the United Nations in charge of cities, for the next World Urban Forum taking place in Cairo in November, has taken a motto: It All Starts at Home. It all starts in our local life. To be aware that all starts at home, all starts in our local community, is to be aware that we constantly need real-life contacts for dating and for this humanistic process. Education is not only about going to school. Education is to constantly have an open mindset, at home with my family, in my building, with the others in the street, in the squares, and in different activities. The otherness should be a permanent lifestyle for transforming our individual behavior and transforming our relationships. This is the sense of this proximity.”

https://www.moreno-web.net/
https://www.wiley.com/en-us/The+15-Minute+City%3A+A+Solution+to+Saving+Our+Time+and+Our+Planet-p-9781394228140

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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Where do creative thoughts come from? How can we harness our stream of consciousness and spontaneity to express ourselves? How are mind-wandering, meditation, and the arts good for our creativity and physical and mental well-being?

Dr. Ben Shofty is a functional neurosurgeon affiliated with the University of Utah. He graduated from the Tel-Aviv University Faculty of Medicine, received his PhD in neurosurgical training from the Israeli Institute of Technology, and completed his training at the Tel Aviv Medical Center and Baylor University. He was also an Israeli national rugby player. His practice specializes in neuromodulation and exploring treatments for disorders such as OCD, depression, and epilepsy, among others, while also seeking to understand the science behind creativity, mind-wandering, and the many complexities of the brain.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

Let's talk about creativity. We know that creativity we still don't know exactly what happens in our brains when we're being creative. So, how do you define creativity in the context of those higher-order functions? Can you help us understand the default mode network? You've written that there is not a specific location in the brain for creativity.

BEN SHOFTY

I think the common thing that happens whenever somebody is doing a creative process is that we have infrequent connection between two or more thought processes that weren't meant to be connected. That's when we get that sort of eureka moment when we are able to fuse two things that, or more that aren’t meant to be fused, and we generate something that is actually great. And to me, this is one of the most interesting things that the human mind sort of evolved and specialized to do.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

In terms of your own experience with creativity, I think you have a really interesting background. You were a former national rugby player in Israel. You’ve experienced creativity in the lab and even as a surgeon, you must be coming up with solutions in the moment. Some people might not label that as creative, but when it's high stakes or something unexpected happens during surgery, I imagine you have to use creative problem solving to turn it around. In that moment, creativity can really save a life, and so often there is this split second thinking that's hard to track what’s happening in the creative mind. Can you speak about the more elusive processes like creativity or high-order cognitive functions? Is there a specific area inside the brain where we can see areas where we can see creative sparks emerage?

AI-generated by the creative process via DALL-E

SHOFTY

So I feel, when you think about the evolution of the human brain–just like other animals that have specialized in speed or keeping warm or gathering food–I feel our brain sort of specialized being creative and flexible and being able to generate different solutions to a given problem. And to me – it's not written in my bio or anywhere else – but I used to cook and work at cooking. And to me, this is the most creative process, right? Taking something and generating a taste or a flavor or something completely different out of it.

To me, this is probably the most fascinating thought process that happens in the human brain. And what I do in neurosurgery–and my subspecialty is called functional neurosurgery–we don't deal with disorders in which there's an anatomical abnormality inside the brain. We deal with disorders in which there is an abnormal connection or abnormal circuitry inside the brain when there's an issue with the way the brain functions. There's no tumor. There are no abnormal blood vessels or anything like that. And that gives us an amazing opportunity to really investigate how different circuits and different areas inside the brain work.

In terms of the more elusive processes like creativity or high-order cognitive functions, we don't really know or understand where they are inside the brain. As you said, there's no creativity cortex, like we have a motor cortex, sensory cortex, or visual cortex.

When we started with this series of projects, we tried to think, if this function just like other higher cognitive functions, cannot be explained by a specific area inside the brain, then what happens? Where does the magic happen? And the answer was that it's a network-dependent function. It doesn't originate from a specific area inside the brain, but it originates from multiple brain networks sort of all of a sudden synchronizing to generate that unexpected function.

*

If you talk about Stephen King or Jerry Seinfeld, you know, these people are creative for a living. So they know how to channel this internal thought process and generate these unexpected connections in order to generate the same sort of type of creativity, whether it's a book or a joke or something else. There are many other people who can harness creativity. For most of us, it's a process that starts with that spontaneous stream of thought when all of a sudden the default mode network synchronizes with other brain networks that sort of channel that internal mental process into generating something that is useful or helpful. So, there's a specific moment in which our internal stream of thought is synchronized with a goal-directed or intentional network. And that's when the creative process happens. And that's the sort of magic that were trying to find or analyze with the study that you're talking about.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

Of course, there’s a dark side to creativity where high levels of creative mania are linked to mental health challenges, bipolar episodes, euphoria, and schizophrenia. I'd always thought that neurosurgical treatments for mental health disorders are complex and could be high risk, but I understand you work in an area where 60 to 70 percent of patients respond well to the treatment. So what are the biggest challenges you face translating research into practical, safe, and widely available treatments for disorders like OCD, depression, and PTSD?

SHOFTY

OCD is a relatively simple or understood disorder. We have a very specific brain circuit that is sort of in charge of the enhancement of obsessive thoughts and the following compulsions. So when we intervene with with the OCD circuitry, and there's, there's a lot of amazing work done by my former mentor at Baylor College of Medicine, Sameer Sheth, and Nicole Provenza from his group that are doing really amazing stuff in terms of dissecting that circuitry that leads to these recurrent obsessions and compulsions. I feel like it's a really sort of different thing. Of course, interventions for OCD are FDA-approved, so that's something that we do on a routine clinical basis. There are other mental health conditions like depression and schizophrenia. I'm intentionally bringing up these two because the way I see them, they represent two different types of default mode dysfunction. For example, depression has many subtypes, and it has apparently many different disorders. But one of the subtypes that we're studying in my lab is what we call rumination-type depression. It's the type of depression in which people keep ruminating and keep focusing on their internal thought process. And they just cannot, you know, shake off and concentrate on anything that happens in the outside world.

When somebody has rumination-type depression, they just can't do that, and they keep on ruminating and thinking about things that have happened, and they just can't shake them off. That leads to significant depressive symptoms. The other side of that default mode dysfunction is, for example, schizophrenia at the beginning of the disease, where they're very active, and patients are really stormy and have a lot of psychosis, which is the inability to differentiate external stimuli from internal stimuli. They have a lot of auditory and visual hallucinations, and the default mode network is so hyperactivated that you can't tell the difference between what's happening inside your brain and what's happening on the outside. These are two extreme conditions of what some people think is default mode network dysfunction or network dysfunction inside the brain, which also overlaps with the creative thought process. For the brain or body to function well, we need everything to be balanced, right?

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

We've been talking about meditation, and so mind wandering is, I think, often considered to be a form of mental rest, but on the flip, it can also lead to this negative rumination that you've discussed. So, what are some of the ways beyond what you've already discussed to harness mind wandering for mental resilience, especially in those individuals with a predisposition to anxiety or depression?

SHOFTY

So, mind wandering is another basic function that we associate with the default mode network. And again, our ability to mind wander can be a positive thing if we harness it into a mental break or rest–the extreme form of that is probably meditation. And it can be a bad thing if we basically are unable to concentrate on everything and our mind constantly wanders.

And it's a big issue today with all the screens and social media. Our ability to generate positive mind wandering is getting lost because our attention span has become a TikTok-length sort of attention span. Our ability to allow our mind to wander in healthy ways is getting lost. So a lot of people are interested in the changes that happen to that very basic critical form of thinking or spontaneous thought. It's hard to investigate, and we haven't had a very big success in investigating it because most of the patients that I work with underwent surgery, an invasive intervention, and they're basically having a hard time with mind wandering.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

Do you foresee a future where such technology could be used to augment or directly tap into the creative process of the brain? Do you see the potential benefits or risks of such advancements?

SHOFTY

I'm one of the people who believe that anything that we as human beings can imagine will eventually happen. So, if somebody has raised the question possibility of having brain implants that augment the brain and generate additional functions, I feel like it will eventually happen. There are a lot of private companies, like Elon Musk's Neuralink and others, that are busy designing these interfaces and planning these devices. Of course, nothing is available or even close to completion right now.

The next step, of course, would be to modulate them. Just like any other thing in medicine, it will start or has already started with pathological states which we've talked about and people looking for potential interventions through TMS (transcranial magnetic stimulation). It doesn't necessarily have to be invasive, but of course the next step, especially when we're talking about the brain is to intervene and generate additional functions or to improve the way the brain functions. Many people are working on trying to generate memory augmentation, navigation augmentations, and a lot of other functions. I assume eventually it will reach a point where we'll be able to pick and choose what we want to augment about our own brains. I assume that the technology will be there eventually. And this is something that will be a part of the natural evolution of the human race.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

What led you to delve into studying the mind, the brain, creativity, and all these area? What was your way in?

SHOFTY

The reason I went into neurosurgery is because it provides the most intimate sort of understanding of what happens in the brain. When you operate on a patient, implant electrodes, or perform a resection for epilepsy or any other type of brain surgery, it puts you in a position where you truly understand the significance of the brain and the changes that the brain undergoes. For example, my old boss in Tel Aviv…we used to see our postoperative patients together. They used to tell us, "I can walk and talk, but I don't feel like the same person." That realization drew my mind to studying what makes us ourselves. I believe that creativity is one of the main things that defines our uniqueness as human beings because it's a very personalized thought process. Everyone is creative in a unique and special way. As someone who is interested in and likes other human beings, the question of what makes us unique and human distilled itself into figuring out what happens when we are creative.

What's interesting about meditation is that for people who are professional meditators, their default mode network is not hyperactive, but it's underactive when they meditate. So basically, when they meditate, they sort of break free from their spontaneous stream of consciousness, and that's how meditation should work.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

There is an ongoing debate about how social media and digital environments can potentially have a negative impact on our mental well-being, especially for young people. Numerous studies have explored the link between social media use and reduced psychological well-being, increased levels of depression, and low self-esteem. What are your views on this? How can we protect ourselves and young people from these potential negative effects?

SHOFTY

This is another philosophical question: whether this is our next step in evolution where we don't have to concentrate and we don't have to focus our attention on anything, but we need to be able to follow 20 different stimuli all at once. Maybe that's the way the human race is working towards? And maybe that's the next sort of attribute that we need to be successful in the future world? I do agree that a lot of scientific evidence is pointing out that these are not healthy processes and that they significantly impair our mental health and our well-being.

The best thing to do is to try and minimize exposure to these social networks and online media at younger ages. And also to find something that gives us a break from these things that are constantly hovering around us. If we can give ourselves and our loved ones a chance to get a break from that during their day, I feel like this will help minimize the effect.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

As you reflect on meditation and those ways to connect to our truest self or who we are when our mind is at rest and focused. Could you share your reflections on the beauty and wonder of the natural world and the different ways you tap into your creativity?

SHOFTY

I moved to Utah, which is a very beautiful place, and I feel like the mountains and the breathtaking nature that we have around here really help. There are many studies that have shown that exposure to nature and spending time in nature really helps us. It helps our well-being as human beings, and it also helps us to be creative, reflective, and calm. My personal creative process works through interaction with other people. Through genuine interest in other people and through spending time with them. These are the times when, through talking to people like you, friends, family, or even strangers, I usually think about questions that interest me and most of the time, these questions are abstract and amorphic. But every now and then, there's a question that I think, "Oh, wait, I can look into that through my lab or through my research, and I can utilize that question to try and help my patients." One such example is another project that we have in our lab, trying to understand how time perception happens in the brain and how subjective time perception works. This is something that, through interactions with other people in my lab, we eventually reach the point where we have a formed question that we can utilize to understand that process inside the brain.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

As you reflect on the future and the kind of world we're leaving the next generation, those lessons that you've learned from your teachers and mentors, what do you tell your children? What would you like young people to know, preserve, and remember?

SHOFTY

I think another thing that makes us human is our generational transfer of information. Our ability to distill the knowledge that was passed on to us and then pass it on and give it our unique stamp is again another one of these things that makes us human. The main thing that I've learned from my mentors and the main thing that I would like to pass on to my children is the notion that compassion is the most important thing that we have as human beings. And hopefully, I'll be able to teach myself and then them how to be also self-compassionate. I feel like this is a very good coping mechanism for this extremely violent and stimulating world that's happening out there. Whatever profession you choose, whatever you choose to study, just remember that there's a human being on the other side. This is something that social networks and online media are trying to make us forget: that there's actually a person on the other side of that video or text. I feel like this is the main thing that I would like to pass on to my children to help them remember that, eventually, we are all human.

For the full conversation, listen to the episode.This interview was conducted by Mia Funk with the participation of collaborating universities and students. Associate Interviews Producers on this episode were Sophie Garnier and Eva Sanborn. The Creative Process is produced by Mia Funk. Additional production support by Sophie Garnier.Mia Funk is an artist, interviewer, and founder of The Creative Process & One Planet Podcast (Conversations about Climate Change & Environmental Solutions). Listen on Apple,Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Where do creative thoughts come from? How can we harness our stream of consciousness and spontaneity to express ourselves? How are mind-wandering, meditation, and the arts good for our creativity and physical and mental well-being?

Dr. Ben Shofty is a functional neurosurgeon affiliated with the University of Utah. He graduated from the Tel-Aviv University Faculty of Medicine, received his PhD in neurosurgical training from the Israeli Institute of Technology, and completed his training at the Tel Aviv Medical Center and Baylor University. He was also an Israeli national rugby player. His practice specializes in neuromodulation and exploring treatments for disorders such as OCD, depression, and epilepsy, among others, while also seeking to understand the science behind creativity, mind-wandering, and the many complexities of the brain.

Audio Block Double-click here to upload or link to a .mp3. Learn more THE CREATIVE PROCESS

Let's talk about creativity. We know that creativity we still don't know exactly what happens in our brains when we're being creative. So, how do you define creativity in the context of those higher-order functions? Can you help us understand the default mode network? You've written that there is not a specific location in the brain for creativity.

BEN SHOFTY

I think the common thing that happens whenever somebody is doing a creative process is that we have infrequent connection between two or more thought processes that weren't meant to be connected. That's when we get that sort of eureka moment when we are able to fuse two things that, or more that aren’t meant to be fused, and we generate something that is actually great. And to me, this is one of the most interesting things that the human mind sort of evolved and specialized to do.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

In terms of your own experience with creativity, I think you have a really interesting background. You were a former national rugby player in Israel. You’ve experienced creativity in the lab and even as a surgeon, you must be coming up with solutions in the moment. Some people might not label that as creative, but when it's high stakes or something unexpected happens during surgery, I imagine you have to use creative problem solving to turn it around. In that moment, creativity can really save a life, and so often there is this split second thinking that's hard to track what’s happening in the creative mind. Can you speak about the more elusive processes like creativity or high-order cognitive functions? Is there a specific area inside the brain where we can see areas where we can see creative sparks emerage?

SHOFTY

So I feel, when you think about the evolution of the human brain–just like other animals that have specialized in speed or keeping warm or gathering food–I feel our brain sort of specialized being creative and flexible and being able to generate different solutions to a given problem. And to me – it's not written in my bio or anywhere else – but I used to cook and work at cooking. And to me, this is the most creative process, right? Taking something and generating a taste or a flavor or something completely different out of it.

To me, this is probably the most fascinating thought process that happens in the human brain. And what I do in neurosurgery–and my subspecialty is called functional neurosurgery–we don't deal with disorders in which there's an anatomical abnormality inside the brain. We deal with disorders in which there is an abnormal connection or abnormal circuitry inside the brain when there's an issue with the way the brain functions. There's no tumor. There are no abnormal blood vessels or anything like that. And that gives us an amazing opportunity to really investigate how different circuits and different areas inside the brain work.

In terms of the more elusive processes like creativity or high-order cognitive functions, we don't really know or understand where they are inside the brain. As you said, there's no creativity cortex, like we have a motor cortex, sensory cortex, or visual cortex.

When we started with this series of projects, we tried to think, if this function just like other higher cognitive functions, cannot be explained by a specific area inside the brain, then what happens? Where does the magic happen? And the answer was that it's a network-dependent function. It doesn't originate from a specific area inside the brain, but it originates from multiple brain networks sort of all of a sudden synchronizing to generate that unexpected function.

*

If you talk about Stephen King or Jerry Seinfeld, you know, these people are creative for a living. So they know how to channel this internal thought process and generate these unexpected connections in order to generate the same sort of type of creativity, whether it's a book or a joke or something else. There are many other people who can harness creativity. For most of us, it's a process that starts with that spontaneous stream of thought when all of a sudden the default mode network synchronizes with other brain networks that sort of channel that internal mental process into generating something that is useful or helpful. So, there's a specific moment in which our internal stream of thought is synchronized with a goal-directed or intentional network. And that's when the creative process happens. And that's the sort of magic that were trying to find or analyze with the study that you're talking about.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

Of course, there’s a dark side to creativity where high levels of creative mania are linked to mental health challenges, bipolar episodes, euphoria, and schizophrenia. I'd always thought that neurosurgical treatments for mental health disorders are complex and could be high risk, but I understand you work in an area where 60 to 70 percent of patients respond well to the treatment. So what are the biggest challenges you face translating research into practical, safe, and widely available treatments for disorders like OCD, depression, and PTSD?

SHOFTY

OCD is a relatively simple or understood disorder. We have a very specific brain circuit that is sort of in charge of the enhancement of obsessive thoughts and the following compulsions. So when we intervene with with the OCD circuitry, and there's, there's a lot of amazing work done by my former mentor at Baylor College of Medicine, Sameer Sheth, and Nicole Provenza from his group that are doing really amazing stuff in terms of dissecting that circuitry that leads to these recurrent obsessions and compulsions. I feel like it's a really sort of different thing. Of course, interventions for OCD are FDA-approved, so that's something that we do on a routine clinical basis. There are other mental health conditions like depression and schizophrenia. I'm intentionally bringing up these two because the way I see them, they represent two different types of default mode dysfunction. For example, depression has many subtypes, and it has apparently many different disorders. But one of the subtypes that we're studying in my lab is what we call rumination-type depression. It's the type of depression in which people keep ruminating and keep focusing on their internal thought process. And they just cannot, you know, shake off and concentrate on anything that happens in the outside world.

When somebody has rumination-type depression, they just can't do that, and they keep on ruminating and thinking about things that have happened, and they just can't shake them off. That leads to significant depressive symptoms. The other side of that default mode dysfunction is, for example, schizophrenia at the beginning of the disease, where they're very active, and patients are really stormy and have a lot of psychosis, which is the inability to differentiate external stimuli from internal stimuli. They have a lot of auditory and visual hallucinations, and the default mode network is so hyperactivated that you can't tell the difference between what's happening inside your brain and what's happening on the outside. These are two extreme conditions of what some people think is default mode network dysfunction or network dysfunction inside the brain, which also overlaps with the creative thought process. For the brain or body to function well, we need everything to be balanced, right?

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

We've been talking about meditation, and so mind wandering is, I think, often considered to be a form of mental rest, but on the flip, it can also lead to this negative rumination that you've discussed. So, what are some of the ways beyond what you've already discussed to harness mind wandering for mental resilience, especially in those individuals with a predisposition to anxiety or depression?

SHOFTY

So, mind wandering is another basic function that we associate with the default mode network. And again, our ability to mind wander can be a positive thing if we harness it into a mental break or rest–the extreme form of that is probably meditation. And it can be a bad thing if we basically are unable to concentrate on everything and our mind constantly wanders.

And it's a big issue today with all the screens and social media. Our ability to generate positive mind wandering is getting lost because our attention span has become a TikTok-length sort of attention span. Our ability to allow our mind to wander in healthy ways is getting lost. So a lot of people are interested in the changes that happen to that very basic critical form of thinking or spontaneous thought. It's hard to investigate, and we haven't had a very big success in investigating it because most of the patients that I work with underwent surgery, an invasive intervention, and they're basically having a hard time with mind wandering.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

Do you foresee a future where such technology could be used to augment or directly tap into the creative process of the brain? Do you see the potential benefits or risks of such advancements?

SHOFTY

I'm one of the people who believe that anything that we as human beings can imagine will eventually happen. So, if somebody has raised the question possibility of having brain implants that augment the brain and generate additional functions, I feel like it will eventually happen. There are a lot of private companies, like Elon Musk's Neuralink and others, that are busy designing these interfaces and planning these devices. Of course, nothing is available or even close to completion right now.

The next step, of course, would be to modulate them. Just like any other thing in medicine, it will start or has already started with pathological states which we've talked about and people looking for potential interventions through TMS (transcranial magnetic stimulation). It doesn't necessarily have to be invasive, but of course the next step, especially when we're talking about the brain is to intervene and generate additional functions or to improve the way the brain functions. Many people are working on trying to generate memory augmentation, navigation augmentations, and a lot of other functions. I assume eventually it will reach a point where we'll be able to pick and choose what we want to augment about our own brains. I assume that the technology will be there eventually. And this is something that will be a part of the natural evolution of the human race.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

What led you to delve into studying the mind, the brain, creativity, and all these area? What was your way in?

SHOFTY

The reason I went into neurosurgery is because it provides the most intimate sort of understanding of what happens in the brain. When you operate on a patient, implant electrodes, or perform a resection for epilepsy or any other type of brain surgery, it puts you in a position where you truly understand the significance of the brain and the changes that the brain undergoes. For example, my old boss in Tel Aviv…we used to see our postoperative patients together. They used to tell us, "I can walk and talk, but I don't feel like the same person." That realization drew my mind to studying what makes us ourselves. I believe that creativity is one of the main things that defines our uniqueness as human beings because it's a very personalized thought process. Everyone is creative in a unique and special way. As someone who is interested in and likes other human beings, the question of what makes us unique and human distilled itself into figuring out what happens when we are creative.

What's interesting about meditation is that for people who are professional meditators, their default mode network is not hyperactive, but it's underactive when they meditate. So basically, when they meditate, they sort of break free from their spontaneous stream of consciousness, and that's how meditation should work.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

There is an ongoing debate about how social media and digital environments can potentially have a negative impact on our mental well-being, especially for young people. Numerous studies have explored the link between social media use and reduced psychological well-being, increased levels of depression, and low self-esteem. What are your views on this? How can we protect ourselves and young people from these potential negative effects?

SHOFTY

This is another philosophical question: whether this is our next step in evolution where we don't have to concentrate and we don't have to focus our attention on anything, but we need to be able to follow 20 different stimuli all at once. Maybe that's the way the human race is working towards? And maybe that's the next sort of attribute that we need to be successful in the future world? I do agree that a lot of scientific evidence is pointing out that these are not healthy processes and that they significantly impair our mental health and our well-being.

The best thing to do is to try and minimize exposure to these social networks and online media at younger ages. And also to find something that gives us a break from these things that are constantly hovering around us. If we can give ourselves and our loved ones a chance to get a break from that during their day, I feel like this will help minimize the effect.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

As you reflect on meditation and those ways to connect to our truest self or who we are when our mind is at rest and focused. Could you share your reflections on the beauty and wonder of the natural world and the different ways you tap into your creativity?

SHOFTY

I moved to Utah, which is a very beautiful place, and I feel like the mountains and the breathtaking nature that we have around here really help. There are many studies that have shown that exposure to nature and spending time in nature really helps us. It helps our well-being as human beings, and it also helps us to be creative, reflective, and calm. My personal creative process works through interaction with other people. Through genuine interest in other people and through spending time with them. These are the times when, through talking to people like you, friends, family, or even strangers, I usually think about questions that interest me and most of the time, these questions are abstract and amorphic. But every now and then, there's a question that I think, "Oh, wait, I can look into that through my lab or through my research, and I can utilize that question to try and help my patients." One such example is another project that we have in our lab, trying to understand how time perception happens in the brain and how subjective time perception works. This is something that, through interactions with other people in my lab, we eventually reach the point where we have a formed question that we can utilize to understand that process inside the brain.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

As you reflect on the future and the kind of world we're leaving the next generation, those lessons that you've learned from your teachers and mentors, what do you tell your children? What would you like young people to know, preserve, and remember?

SHOFTY

I think another thing that makes us human is our generational transfer of information. Our ability to distill the knowledge that was passed on to us and then pass it on and give it our unique stamp is again another one of these things that makes us human. The main thing that I've learned from my mentors and the main thing that I would like to pass on to my children is the notion that compassion is the most important thing that we have as human beings. And hopefully, I'll be able to teach myself and then them how to be also self-compassionate. I feel like this is a very good coping mechanism for this extremely violent and stimulating world that's happening out there. Whatever profession you choose, whatever you choose to study, just remember that there's a human being on the other side. This is something that social networks and online media are trying to make us forget: that there's actually a person on the other side of that video or text. I feel like this is the main thing that I would like to pass on to my children to help them remember that, eventually, we are all human.

For the full conversation, listen to the episode.This interview was conducted by Mia Funk with the participation of collaborating universities and students. Associate Interviews Producers on this episode were Sophie Garnier and Eva Sanborn. The Creative Process is produced by Mia Funk. Additional production support by Sophie Garnier.Mia Funk is an artist, interviewer, and founder of The Creative Process & One Planet Podcast (Conversations about Climate Change & Environmental Solutions). Listen on Apple,Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

View Details

How can we design and adapt for the uncertainties of the 21st century? How do emotions shape our decisions and the way we design the world around us?

Scott Doorley is the Creative Director at Stanford's d. school and coauthor of Make Space: How to Set the Stage for Creative Collaboration. He teaches design communication and his work has been featured in museums and in publications such as Architecture + Urbanism and The New York Times. Carissa Carter is the Academic Director at Stanford's d. school and author of The Secret Language of Maps: How to Tell Visual Stories with Data. She teaches courses on emerging technologies and data visualization and received Fast Company Innovation and Core 77 awards for her work on designing with machine learning and blockchain. Together, they coauthored Assembling Tomorrow: A Guide to Designing a Thriving Future.

Today, someone is putting the finishing touches on a machine-­ learning algorithm that will change the way you relate to your family. Someone is trying to design a way to communicate with animals in their own language. Someone is designing a gene that alters bacteria to turn your poop bright blue when it’s time to see the doctor. Someone is cleaning up the mess someone else left behind seventy years ago yesterday. Today, someone just had an idea that will end up saving one thing while it harms another…

To be a maker in this moment—­ to be a human today—­ is to collaborate with the world. It is to create and be created, to work and be worked on, to make and be made. To be human is to tinker, create, fix, care, and bring new things into the world. It is to design. You—­ yes, you!—­ might design products or policy, services or sermons, production lines or preschool programs. You might run a business, make art, or participate in passing out meals to the poor. You may write code or pour concrete, lobby for endangered species legislation or craft cocktails. Wherever you fit in, you are part of shaping the world. This is design work.

– Assembling Tomorrow
A Guide to Designing a Thriving Future

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

You both teach at universities at a time when educational silos are in flux. Young people are living in this kind of giant laboratory of possibilities, innovation, inspiration, and experimentation, and things around us are changing so fast. The rapid advances of AI are challenging many norms, and Assembling Tomorrow really helps us put this into context. It's playful, imaginative, and thought-provoking, and it inspired me to consider: What’s the future that I want to live in? And how I can be a part of that design process? So, what made you write Assembling Tomorrow at this moment in time?

CARISSA CARTER

This moment feels really overwhelming. Like we're overwhelmed with the technology, our climate's on the fritz, and it can feel really unsettling. Yet at the same time, as people that craft learning experiences, we know how much agency each of us has as individuals. And so we wanted to write the book to call attention to the complexity and the feeling of overwhelm of this moment and then also to share things that anybody can do to launch ourselves into that better future.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

How important are emotions in the design process? And what are the emotional impacts of design?

SCOTT DOORLEY

So if you look at the internet and the creation of the internet, the idea was to move information quickly. And that has been great, but there have been a lot of things where they didn't take into account the fact that, well, there are people attached to all that information, and those people are experiencing emotions. The things that we're designing are actually exciting and aggravating our emotions. So you take something like social media, which is really about the speedy spread of information. And what you see is it also brought along with it teen depression and body image issues. It also led to political polarization.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

Carissa, you teach data visualization. How important is this in helping us understand, adapt and take action on climate change?

CARTER

One thing to know is that every single climate visualization that we see out in the world, whether that is a map of rising temperatures around the country or the globe or rising sea levels or wildfires, all of that has design decisions behind it. I am also with you that we need to get more people understanding the impacts of their own actions on climate change and being aware of what's happening to the planet. So one is to be able to interpret that work and really interrogate it for what it is. To be able to read any infographic and what we call deconstruct it, understand what emotions it is evoking in you, your gut reaction, why those are happening, and literally what the designer has done to make you feel that way. Literacy in reading infographics is one piece. And to give you very specific examples, in one of the classes that I teach and co-teach with a geoscientist, Kate Maher, and an infographic designer, Catherine Madden, we have students visualize what is known as the climate swerve. So this idea that humans, and the idea that we can't have agency over shifting climate, was coined the climate swerve by Jay Lifton a number of years ago. That concept is one that the more that we have people sourcing what the information is and how to present it, we feel gets that climate literacy in our brains and gets that message across. You can see it in really interesting ways. For example, we have students visualize climate anxiety and where it is cropping up, overlaid with where people should feel anxious about climate. We have even had a student group that visualized the themes of major Marvel movies throughout the past 20 plus years. They looked at what those themes were and how they changed and how some of the themes have started to be much more climate-related, kind of showing how these topics are ingrained in popular culture too.

Speculative Legislation: Preparing for the Future

DOORLEY

We have an assumption that technological innovation outpaces government regulation. That's a very well-founded assumption because that's how it goes. It's always been that way. However, I think we need to start thinking differently, and we should be able to imagine that we can create legislation that precedes the impacts of the things we're creating. If we see a potential effect coming, we should be able to put in a sort of preemptive law to address it prior to the effect actually happening, which we do in a lot of ways. There are tons of examples of that, but I think the pace of legislation needs to accelerate so that it can really grapple with the pace of technological innovation. But then if you do that, you have to be ready for the fact that the legislation might be off. It's speculative, it's anticipatory, and you're not necessarily going to get it right. I think we also need to build in mechanisms into the laws that make them responsive and changeable. So let's have speculative legislation. We'll put a law out there, a regulation that's speculative, but let's have built-in checks that are constantly checking if this is working the way we wanted it to, and it needs to be easy to change if it's not. Which is also not built into the system. We need to be able to imagine things working in ways in which we aren't used to them working. One, I think, is legislation being quick and responsive when generally it's sort of slow and hard to change. That's one thing that I think could really help.

CARTER

Scott and I like to kick around imaginative ideas for types of legislation. One idea is like a 'look both ways' technology where, let's say, we have a big new social media technology that's about to be launched, and AI and all sorts of algorithms that would fit within that bucket. Is there a moment where there's a trial period with technologies like that, where we have some ideas as to how they might need to be governed? We could put those in place and then use that, say, two-year period of time when that technology is learning how it's going to actually work once it's in place. We both look historically and see how similar technologies have affected our world. What should we be looking for in terms of the effects it might have both on our individual persons and our societies? Also, sort of look forward, do some visioning as to what might come to pass 10, 20, 30 years down the road.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

One of the things you write about are understanding the intangibles.

CARTER

Understanding the intangibles is really about knowing the forces that are coming together that are making this moment feel quite unsettling. These include the fact that everything is interconnected and flows between each other and the feelings that you were talking about before, as well as our human propensity to make stories and come up with narratives to connect ideas, whether they exist or not. Human characteristics and actionables are like: what are ways to notice those forces that are happening, to see the unseen so that each one of us can be more aware of what's happening and build the world for the better.

The Concept of Umwelt: Perception and Reality

DOORLEY

The way our brains work is not really indicative of how the world works. There's a reason for that. Us being able to pay attention to certain things and ignore others allows us to navigate, but it shouldn't be mistaken for an understanding of our holistic view of the world. There's a concept that we talk about in the book called the umwelt. The idea of an umwelt is what your senses can take in, and different species have different senses. As an example, cockroaches sense movement in ways that we don't. Butterflies can see infrared light, and we can't. Butterflies can actually taste with their feet, which is kind of an amazing thing, and I'm kind of glad that we don't. The point is that even through our senses, my understanding of a situation is going to be different from your understanding of the situation. The way I think of a story of what happens is going to be different from the way you thought of a story. There's a man named Gregory Bateson (author of Steps to an Ecology of Mind), who was an environmentalist, and he talks about how most of the problems in the world are actually a problem between the way people think and how the world works. They are not the same thing. The way we understand the world and how the world actually works is just not mapped perfectly. That kind of leads to problems because we don't know exactly what we're doing in the world. We can't see all the repercussions of the things we create until later on.

AI and the Future: Opportunities and Concerns

One silver lining about the technologies we're creating is that technologies like AI could be used to help us with this issue, with the fact that our mental models aren't exactly in line with how the world works. AI is actually very good at predicting and modeling outcomes. It could be used to understand climate change better so that we're able to understand it in a way that allows us to act. It could also help us predict the impacts of the things that we're making. So there's a bit of a silver lining in here, even though it can feel scary to be in a situation where your mental model and how the world works are not in line.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

As you reflect on AI, how do you feel it's going to change the future of education, the future of work, the way we communicate with ourselves, and our imaginations? We have been living in a digital smog for a long time, now combined with the manic pace of AI. So as our technologies change, how is it changing our sense of self?

CARISSA CARTER

Well, one is it's absolutely going to change us. I think the sooner that we can be very proactive, the better. I don't know if I want to be changed, and I think a lot of people are feeling that too. But it is going to change us, so it's not going to help to pretend like it's not happening. But we can all be proactive in noticing the changes it's having on us, on our children, on our planet, from every scale—from that large system-wide energy footprint scale all the way down to the minuscule. Maybe I won't even call it minuscule, but I worry that AI is changing my thoughts and can control my thoughts, and that used to sound really far-fetched and now seems sort of middle of the road. I guarantee in a year's time that will sound like a very normal concern. Social listening is very sophisticated. All of the data in the websites that we visit, the data trails that we leave out in the world, are tracking us—our locations, our behaviors, and our habits such that there are many sites out there that can predict exactly what we're thinking and feeling and feed us advertising content or things that aren't even advertising content that can change what our next behaviors are.

I think that's getting more and more sophisticated. We have already seen our political elections affected by mass attacks on our social media. When that comes down to our individual agency and behavior, I think that's something we do need to be concerned about. The way that we as individuals can combat it is to be aware that it's happening. Really start to notice the unnoticed, and I still feel optimistic amongst this concern.

When we are prototyping new design ideas with students, we love this mantra that the prototype should never be more resolved than the idea. So if you want to make a new chair and you're concerned with how much space it should take up, you make that thing out of cardboard so that you just get an idea of space. You don't make it at its final beautiful wood and leather resolution because then you're going to be looking at whether this texture feels right. You're not going to be thinking about the amount of space it's taking up. But with AI, you're right. The manicness, the hallucinations, when they appear exactly the same as something that we are used to as just a representation of search, etc., that's confusing. That is confusing to our brains, and if you're working quickly, you can miss it.

The Media Landscape: Protecting Our Imagination

DOORLEY

You mentioned digital smog, Mia, and something Carissa and I have been talking about lately is as you move from the industrial era to the media era, the landscape of what we're working with changes. In a media landscape, the environment is not just the trees and the water and the air. It's actually our minds—our emotions, our feelings, our mental models, and our imagination. So our brains are kind of the environment in which all these new media updates and designs are playing out. Where does pollution show up? Pollution shows up in political polarization, it shows up in difficulties with mental health. We need to think of our imagination in the media space as a public resource that needs to be protected. Our collective imagination, the sum total of our individual imaginations and how they affect each other, is really important to start thinking about with a conservation mindset. This is kind of a silent spring moment of the media era.

Creativity, Innovation and the Importance of a Holistic Design Process

DOORLEY

When you're thinking about a creative field or just bringing creativity to whatever field you have, creativity is often about finding the hidden thing, finding the thing that nobody else is seeing and taking it to reality. Don't think that make believe or imagination or weird ideas are not worth it. I had some mentors in my life that allowed me to understand how you should take make believe seriously, because if you go down this kind of wild path, you find something beyond what's going on, and eventually the world is going to normalize it and integrate it. Otherwise, it just won't work. So don't worry about being out there. We need people to be thinking beyond what is toward what could be. I think that's number one. The second thing is that the way you do things is as important as the things you do. It's not just about the product; it's about how you do it because how you do it actually has more repercussions sometimes than the product. You might create a great product, but if everyone working on it is angry and the people you're trying to serve aren't excited about it or they've been taken advantage of to make it come into the world, that leaves more bad stuff that's harder to see but has an equal or bigger impact. Just how you make it is as important as what you make.

Image credit: Patrick BeaudouinThis interview was conducted by Mia Funk with the participation of collaborating universities and students. Associate Interviews Producers on this episode were Katie Foster and Surayyah Fofana. The Creative Process is produced by Mia Funk. Additional production support by Sophie Garnier.Mia Funk is an artist, interviewer, and founder of The Creative Process & One Planet Podcast (Conversations about Climate Change & Environmental Solutions). Listen on Apple,Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

View Details

How can we design and adapt for the uncertainties of the 21st century? How do emotions shape our decisions and the way we design the world around us?

Scott Doorley is the Creative Director at Stanford's d. school and coauthor of Make Space: How to Set the Stage for Creative Collaboration. He teaches design communication and his work has been featured in museums and in publications such as Architecture + Urbanism and The New York Times. Carissa Carter is the Academic Director at Stanford's d. school and author of The Secret Language of Maps: How to Tell Visual Stories with Data. She teaches courses on emerging technologies and data visualization and received Fast Company Innovation and Core 77 awards for her work on designing with machine learning and blockchain. Together, they coauthored Assembling Tomorrow: A Guide to Designing a Thriving Future.

Today, someone is putting the finishing touches on a machine-­ learning algorithm that will change the way you relate to your family. Someone is trying to design a way to communicate with animals in their own language. Someone is designing a gene that alters bacteria to turn your poop bright blue when it’s time to see the doctor. Someone is cleaning up the mess someone else left behind seventy years ago yesterday. Today, someone just had an idea that will end up saving one thing while it harms another…

To be a maker in this moment—­ to be a human today—­ is to collaborate with the world. It is to create and be created, to work and be worked on, to make and be made. To be human is to tinker, create, fix, care, and bring new things into the world. It is to design. You—­ yes, you!—­ might design products or policy, services or sermons, production lines or preschool programs. You might run a business, make art, or participate in passing out meals to the poor. You may write code or pour concrete, lobby for endangered species legislation or craft cocktails. Wherever you fit in, you are part of shaping the world. This is design work.

– Assembling Tomorrow
A Guide to Designing a Thriving Future

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

You both teach at universities at a time when educational silos are in flux. Young people are living in this kind of giant laboratory of possibilities, innovation, inspiration, and experimentation, and things around us are changing so fast. The rapid advances of AI are challenging many norms, and Assembling Tomorrow really helps us put this into context. It's playful, imaginative, and thought-provoking, and it inspired me to consider: What’s the future that I want to live in? And how I can be a part of that design process? So, what made you write Assembling Tomorrow at this moment in time?

CARISSA CARTER

This moment feels really overwhelming. Like we're overwhelmed with the technology, our climate's on the fritz, and it can feel really unsettling. Yet at the same time, as people that craft learning experiences, we know how much agency each of us has as individuals. And so we wanted to write the book to call attention to the complexity and the feeling of overwhelm of this moment and then also to share things that anybody can do to launch ourselves into that better future.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

How important are emotions in the design process? And what are the emotional impacts of design?

SCOTT DOORLEY

So if you look at the internet and the creation of the internet, the idea was to move information quickly. And that has been great, but there have been a lot of things where they didn't take into account the fact that, well, there are people attached to all that information, and those people are experiencing emotions. The things that we're designing are actually exciting and aggravating our emotions. So you take something like social media, which is really about the speedy spread of information. And what you see is it also brought along with it teen depression and body image issues. It also led to political polarization.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

Carissa, you teach data visualization. How important is this in helping us understand, adapt and take action on climate change?

CARTER

One thing to know is that every single climate visualization that we see out in the world, whether that is a map of rising temperatures around the country or the globe or rising sea levels or wildfires, all of that has design decisions behind it. I am also with you that we need to get more people understanding the impacts of their own actions on climate change and being aware of what's happening to the planet. So one is to be able to interpret that work and really interrogate it for what it is. To be able to read any infographic and what we call deconstruct it, understand what emotions it is evoking in you, your gut reaction, why those are happening, and literally what the designer has done to make you feel that way. Literacy in reading infographics is one piece. And to give you very specific examples, in one of the classes that I teach and co-teach with a geoscientist, Kate Maher, and an infographic designer, Catherine Madden, we have students visualize what is known as the climate swerve. So this idea that humans, and the idea that we can't have agency over shifting climate, was coined the climate swerve by Jay Lifton a number of years ago. That concept is one that the more that we have people sourcing what the information is and how to present it, we feel gets that climate literacy in our brains and gets that message across. You can see it in really interesting ways. For example, we have students visualize climate anxiety and where it is cropping up, overlaid with where people should feel anxious about climate. We have even had a student group that visualized the themes of major Marvel movies throughout the past 20 plus years. They looked at what those themes were and how they changed and how some of the themes have started to be much more climate-related, kind of showing how these topics are ingrained in popular culture too.

Speculative Legislation: Preparing for the Future

DOORLEY

We have an assumption that technological innovation outpaces government regulation. That's a very well-founded assumption because that's how it goes. It's always been that way. However, I think we need to start thinking differently, and we should be able to imagine that we can create legislation that precedes the impacts of the things we're creating. If we see a potential effect coming, we should be able to put in a sort of preemptive law to address it prior to the effect actually happening, which we do in a lot of ways. There are tons of examples of that, but I think the pace of legislation needs to accelerate so that it can really grapple with the pace of technological innovation. But then if you do that, you have to be ready for the fact that the legislation might be off. It's speculative, it's anticipatory, and you're not necessarily going to get it right. I think we also need to build in mechanisms into the laws that make them responsive and changeable. So let's have speculative legislation. We'll put a law out there, a regulation that's speculative, but let's have built-in checks that are constantly checking if this is working the way we wanted it to, and it needs to be easy to change if it's not. Which is also not built into the system. We need to be able to imagine things working in ways in which we aren't used to them working. One, I think, is legislation being quick and responsive when generally it's sort of slow and hard to change. That's one thing that I think could really help.

CARTER

Scott and I like to kick around imaginative ideas for types of legislation. One idea is like a 'look both ways' technology where, let's say, we have a big new social media technology that's about to be launched, and AI and all sorts of algorithms that would fit within that bucket. Is there a moment where there's a trial period with technologies like that, where we have some ideas as to how they might need to be governed? We could put those in place and then use that, say, two-year period of time when that technology is learning how it's going to actually work once it's in place. We both look historically and see how similar technologies have affected our world. What should we be looking for in terms of the effects it might have both on our individual persons and our societies? Also, sort of look forward, do some visioning as to what might come to pass 10, 20, 30 years down the road.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

One of the things you write about are understanding the intangibles.

CARTER

Understanding the intangibles is really about knowing the forces that are coming together that are making this moment feel quite unsettling. These include the fact that everything is interconnected and flows between each other and the feelings that you were talking about before, as well as our human propensity to make stories and come up with narratives to connect ideas, whether they exist or not. Human characteristics and actionables are like: what are ways to notice those forces that are happening, to see the unseen so that each one of us can be more aware of what's happening and build the world for the better.

The Concept of Umwelt: Perception and Reality

DOORLEY

The way our brains work is not really indicative of how the world works. There's a reason for that. Us being able to pay attention to certain things and ignore others allows us to navigate, but it shouldn't be mistaken for an understanding of our holistic view of the world. There's a concept that we talk about in the book called the umwelt. The idea of an umwelt is what your senses can take in, and different species have different senses. As an example, cockroaches sense movement in ways that we don't. Butterflies can see infrared light, and we can't. Butterflies can actually taste with their feet, which is kind of an amazing thing, and I'm kind of glad that we don't. The point is that even through our senses, my understanding of a situation is going to be different from your understanding of the situation. The way I think of a story of what happens is going to be different from the way you thought of a story. There's a man named Gregory Bateson (author of Steps to an Ecology of Mind), who was an environmentalist, and he talks about how most of the problems in the world are actually a problem between the way people think and how the world works. They are not the same thing. The way we understand the world and how the world actually works is just not mapped perfectly. That kind of leads to problems because we don't know exactly what we're doing in the world. We can't see all the repercussions of the things we create until later on.

AI and the Future: Opportunities and Concerns

One silver lining about the technologies we're creating is that technologies like AI could be used to help us with this issue, with the fact that our mental models aren't exactly in line with how the world works. AI is actually very good at predicting and modeling outcomes. It could be used to understand climate change better so that we're able to understand it in a way that allows us to act. It could also help us predict the impacts of the things that we're making. So there's a bit of a silver lining in here, even though it can feel scary to be in a situation where your mental model and how the world works are not in line.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

As you reflect on AI, how do you feel it's going to change the future of education, the future of work, the way we communicate with ourselves, and our imaginations? We have been living in a digital smog for a long time, now combined with the manic pace of AI. So as our technologies change, how is it changing our sense of self?

CARISSA CARTER

Well, one is it's absolutely going to change us. I think the sooner that we can be very proactive, the better. I don't know if I want to be changed, and I think a lot of people are feeling that too. But it is going to change us, so it's not going to help to pretend like it's not happening. But we can all be proactive in noticing the changes it's having on us, on our children, on our planet, from every scale—from that large system-wide energy footprint scale all the way down to the minuscule. Maybe I won't even call it minuscule, but I worry that AI is changing my thoughts and can control my thoughts, and that used to sound really far-fetched and now seems sort of middle of the road. I guarantee in a year's time that will sound like a very normal concern. Social listening is very sophisticated. All of the data in the websites that we visit, the data trails that we leave out in the world, are tracking us—our locations, our behaviors, and our habits such that there are many sites out there that can predict exactly what we're thinking and feeling and feed us advertising content or things that aren't even advertising content that can change what our next behaviors are.

I think that's getting more and more sophisticated. We have already seen our political elections affected by mass attacks on our social media. When that comes down to our individual agency and behavior, I think that's something we do need to be concerned about. The way that we as individuals can combat it is to be aware that it's happening. Really start to notice the unnoticed, and I still feel optimistic amongst this concern.

When we are prototyping new design ideas with students, we love this mantra that the prototype should never be more resolved than the idea. So if you want to make a new chair and you're concerned with how much space it should take up, you make that thing out of cardboard so that you just get an idea of space. You don't make it at its final beautiful wood and leather resolution because then you're going to be looking at whether this texture feels right. You're not going to be thinking about the amount of space it's taking up. But with AI, you're right. The manicness, the hallucinations, when they appear exactly the same as something that we are used to as just a representation of search, etc., that's confusing. That is confusing to our brains, and if you're working quickly, you can miss it.

The Media Landscape: Protecting Our Imagination

DOORLEY

You mentioned digital smog, Mia, and something Carissa and I have been talking about lately is as you move from the industrial era to the media era, the landscape of what we're working with changes. In a media landscape, the environment is not just the trees and the water and the air. It's actually our minds—our emotions, our feelings, our mental models, and our imagination. So our brains are kind of the environment in which all these new media updates and designs are playing out. Where does pollution show up? Pollution shows up in political polarization, it shows up in difficulties with mental health. We need to think of our imagination in the media space as a public resource that needs to be protected. Our collective imagination, the sum total of our individual imaginations and how they affect each other, is really important to start thinking about with a conservation mindset. This is kind of a silent spring moment of the media era.

Creativity, Innovation and the Importance of a Holistic Design Process

DOORLEY

When you're thinking about a creative field or just bringing creativity to whatever field you have, creativity is often about finding the hidden thing, finding the thing that nobody else is seeing and taking it to reality. Don't think that make believe or imagination or weird ideas are not worth it. I had some mentors in my life that allowed me to understand how you should take make believe seriously, because if you go down this kind of wild path, you find something beyond what's going on, and eventually the world is going to normalize it and integrate it. Otherwise, it just won't work. So don't worry about being out there. We need people to be thinking beyond what is toward what could be. I think that's number one. The second thing is that the way you do things is as important as the things you do. It's not just about the product; it's about how you do it because how you do it actually has more repercussions sometimes than the product. You might create a great product, but if everyone working on it is angry and the people you're trying to serve aren't excited about it or they've been taken advantage of to make it come into the world, that leaves more bad stuff that's harder to see but has an equal or bigger impact. Just how you make it is as important as what you make.

Image credit: Patrick BeaudouinThis interview was conducted by Mia Funk with the participation of collaborating universities and students. Associate Interviews Producers on this episode were Katie Foster and Surayyah Fofana. The Creative Process is produced by Mia Funk. Additional production support by Sophie Garnier.Mia Funk is an artist, interviewer, and founder of The Creative Process & One Planet Podcast (Conversations about Climate Change & Environmental Solutions). Listen on Apple,Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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How can museums remain relevant in the digital age, where visual imagery is more accessible than ever? What role do museums play in fostering creativity and innovation in their communities?

Stephen Reily is the Founding Director of Remuseum, an independent research project housed at Crystal Bridges Museum of American Art in Bentonville, Arkansas. Funded by arts patron David Booth with additional support by the Ford Foundation, Remuseum focuses on advancing relevance and governance in museums across the U.S. He works with museums to create a financially sustainable strategy that is human-focused, centering on inclusion, diversity, and important causes like climate change. During his time as director of the Speed Art Museum in Louisville, KY, Reily presented Promise, Witness, Remembrance, an exhibition in response to the killing of Breonna Taylor and a year of protests in Louisville. In 2022, he co-wrote a book documenting the exhibition. A Yale and Stanford Law graduate, Reily clerked for U.S. Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens before launching a successful entrepreneurial career, experiences he draws upon for public engagement initiatives.Stephen Reily is the Founding Director of Remuseum, an independent research project housed at Crystal Bridges Museum of American Art in Bentonville, Arkansas. Funded by arts patron David Booth with additional support by the Ford Foundation, Remuseum focuses on advancing relevance, governance, and sustainability in museums across the U.S. During his time as director of the Speed Art Museum in Louisville, KY, Reily presented Promise, Witness, Remembrance, an exhibition in response to the killing of Breonna Taylor and a year of protests in Louisville. In 2022, he co-wrote a book documenting the exhibition. As an active civic leader, Reily has been a part of numerous community organizations and boards, like the Reily Reentry Project, supporting expungement programs for Kentucky citizens, Creative Capital, offering grants for the arts, and founded Seed Capital Kentucky, a non-profit that aims to improve the food economy in the area. A Yale and Stanford Law graduate, Reily clerked for U.S. Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens before launching a successful entrepreneurial career, experiences he draws upon for public engagement initiatives.

STEPHEN REILY

When I left the Speed Museum after an orderly succession in 2021, I spent a lot of time thinking about the challenges of museums, how it's so hard to cover their budgets and their expenses outpace their revenues, how their assets often act like liabilities and how their own rules have sometimes made it hard for them to innovate. What I didn't know was how Alice Walton, with a great entrepreneur and philanthropist named David Booth, was having similar conversations at that time. 20 years ago, Alice Walton began with a crazy, bold vision, much like her father had when he began Walmart, although hers was in the arts. And she envisioned this place called Crystal Bridges Museum of American Art, which opened a little over a decade ago, and today attracts over 800, 000 visitors a year in a region, Northwest Arkansas, with only 500,000 citizens and in a town with only 40,000 residents.

So Alice thinks big, and she thinks differently. And she and David Booth started talking about why is it so hard for other museums to think differently. And they came up with the idea of putting together a project, which became Remuseum, which I run, in their words, “to help museums break out of these legacy systems and become more innovative.” So I joined the project early last year, gave it a name, and now I'm trying to figure out how we help museums in that effort of becoming more creative and more innovative, how to break out of their legacy systems, matter to more people, and thrive.

**Transparency and Accountability in Museums**

So, 30 to 40 years ago, the average American art museum said that its purpose, its mission, was to preserve objects for the benefit of the public. The public in a very passive role in that formulation. Today, it has dramatically shifted and our own research has documented that 90 percent of American art museums now center the public in their mission statements, not the object. They say that their purpose and mission is to serve and engage the public with art. Sixty percent of them don't even mention objects or collections. And yet, are they really doing the things to reflect and serve these new missions? In fact, when you look at them, they're often, their policies, their norms, their degree of transparency, which you mentioned, and their budgets seem to be much more anchored and aligned with their past missions than with their current missions. And as transparency itself goes, what we showed in a research project we released earlier this summer was that while the missions may center the public in the art museums per stated purpose, the transparency and the information they share do not center the public. And only 17 percent of American art museums share both their number of visitors and their consolidated financial statements. Something that's really kind of a base level of information. They all have this information. They all share it with their boards, but they don't yet share it with the public. So part of Remuseum's work is not just to promote innovation but to ask museums, and boards in particular, to hold themselves accountable to the missions and the public that they serve.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

It's a strange time because museums are fighting for eyeballs. There's all this digital distraction. At no other time, I think, has the average person felt so empowered, even without having art training, to create something. I think that, in some ways, this period of flourishing creativity outside the museum makes it so people aren’t necessarily drawn in to see the physical works of art with fresh eyes.

STEPHEN REILY

I think you've caught exactly the challenge and the opportunity for museums. The opportunity is that we have never had a public that is more passionate and obsessed with visual imagery. If the owners of the best original imagery in the world can't figure out how to take advantage of the fact that the world has now become obsessed with exactly these treasures that we have to offer as museums, then shame on us. You know, this is the opportunity to say that if you're spending all day scrolling on Instagram or other apps looking for amazing imagery, come and see the original source. Come and see the real work. Let us figure out how to make that connection.

At the same time, we need to be learning from them because there is a threat and there's a lot more innovation, frankly, going on in the visual world outside of museums. Whether it's apps like Instagram or Pinterest or whether it's commercial art enterprises. You know, many people are finding these immersive art experiences are a wonderful way to get to know and love the art of mainstream artists like Van Gogh or Monet. And the museum field generally looks down on that.

And I understand it's not necessarily deeply art-historical. It's not trying to transmit a deeper degree of knowledge. And yet, how can we learn from them? How can we learn from the Sphere in Las Vegas, which is employing artists to connect with musicians and give thousands, tens of thousands of people a day a way to experience visual art in a new way. The question is not, you know, museums might say, well, I don't want to sell out. That's not the question. The question is, how do you tap into that energy that the visual imagery is creating for humans all across the country that museums are failing and are not feeling like the places where the public can come experience. There are exceptions. I mean, I think that in the world of AI, museums are really doing interesting work. The Museum of Modern Art last year worked with the great artist Refik Anadol to create a work really grounded in the permanent collection of MoMA in a revolving, mutating kind of explosive giant screen of AI art. And I saw people sitting in the lobby at MoMA transfixed for hours by this work. It was a great new entry point. For young people, for people who might not have felt that the art at the Museum of Modern Art was for them to feel that, yes, this place was leaning into them. Many art critics scoffed at that, whether that was real art or not. But if you looked at the eyes of the visitors, it was becoming…it was art in their eyes. And that's why we have to be a little more expansive in what we share for audiences whose minds may be growing faster than museums are.

I certainly don't want to sound like the role of the curator is diminished in a reimagined role for the museum with its community. I think it asks curators, educators, and museum leaders to really lean deeply into their own missions and the communities they serve without fear. That's another thing. Artists don't have much fear, right? That's the amazing thing about them. And I think museums would do well to copy artists in that respect as well.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

As you think about the future and the importance of the arts, what would you like young people to know, preserve, and remember?

REILY

What I tell my children is to embrace the future and be prepared for the new ways of work, engagement, and citizenship that it may require because the only thing about the future is it shows us that many of the ways that we've been doing things are deeply flawed. And we have to always have the capacity to unthink the things we've been taught and the systems that we've adopted and embraced, which continue to create a lot of good, but also figure out how to balance them with better practices for the future.

This interview was conducted by Mia Funk and Ailin Xu with the participation of collaborating universities and students. Associate Interview Producers on this episode were Sam Myers and Ailin Xu. The Creative Process is produced by Mia Funk. Associate Text Editor was Daniela Cordovez Flores. Additional production support by Sophie Garnier.Mia Funk is an artist, interviewer and founder of The Creative Process & One Planet Podcast (Conversations about Climate Change & Environmental Solutions). Listen on Apple,Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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How can museums remain relevant in the digital age, where visual imagery is more accessible than ever? What role do museums play in fostering creativity and innovation in their communities?

Stephen Reily is the Founding Director of Remuseum, an independent research project housed at Crystal Bridges Museum of American Art in Bentonville, Arkansas. Funded by arts patron David Booth with additional support by the Ford Foundation, Remuseum focuses on advancing relevance and governance in museums across the U.S. He works with museums to create a financially sustainable strategy that is human-focused, centering on inclusion, diversity, and important causes like climate change. During his time as director of the Speed Art Museum in Louisville, KY, Reily presented Promise, Witness, Remembrance, an exhibition in response to the killing of Breonna Taylor and a year of protests in Louisville. In 2022, he co-wrote a book documenting the exhibition. A Yale and Stanford Law graduate, Reily clerked for U.S. Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens before launching a successful entrepreneurial career, experiences he draws upon for public engagement initiatives.Stephen Reily is the Founding Director of Remuseum, an independent research project housed at Crystal Bridges Museum of American Art in Bentonville, Arkansas. Funded by arts patron David Booth with additional support by the Ford Foundation, Remuseum focuses on advancing relevance, governance, and sustainability in museums across the U.S. During his time as director of the Speed Art Museum in Louisville, KY, Reily presented Promise, Witness, Remembrance, an exhibition in response to the killing of Breonna Taylor and a year of protests in Louisville. In 2022, he co-wrote a book documenting the exhibition. As an active civic leader, Reily has been a part of numerous community organizations and boards, like the Reily Reentry Project, supporting expungement programs for Kentucky citizens, Creative Capital, offering grants for the arts, and founded Seed Capital Kentucky, a non-profit that aims to improve the food economy in the area. A Yale and Stanford Law graduate, Reily clerked for U.S. Supreme Court Justice John Paul Stevens before launching a successful entrepreneurial career, experiences he draws upon for public engagement initiatives.

STEPHEN REILY

When I left the Speed Museum after an orderly succession in 2021, I spent a lot of time thinking about the challenges of museums, how it's so hard to cover their budgets and their expenses outpace their revenues, how their assets often act like liabilities and how their own rules have sometimes made it hard for them to innovate. What I didn't know was how Alice Walton, with a great entrepreneur and philanthropist named David Booth, was having similar conversations at that time. 20 years ago, Alice Walton began with a crazy, bold vision, much like her father had when he began Walmart, although hers was in the arts. And she envisioned this place called Crystal Bridges Museum of American Art, which opened a little over a decade ago, and today attracts over 800, 000 visitors a year in a region, Northwest Arkansas, with only 500,000 citizens and in a town with only 40,000 residents.

So Alice thinks big, and she thinks differently. And she and David Booth started talking about why is it so hard for other museums to think differently. And they came up with the idea of putting together a project, which became Remuseum, which I run, in their words, “to help museums break out of these legacy systems and become more innovative.” So I joined the project early last year, gave it a name, and now I'm trying to figure out how we help museums in that effort of becoming more creative and more innovative, how to break out of their legacy systems, matter to more people, and thrive.

**Transparency and Accountability in Museums**

So, 30 to 40 years ago, the average American art museum said that its purpose, its mission, was to preserve objects for the benefit of the public. The public in a very passive role in that formulation. Today, it has dramatically shifted and our own research has documented that 90 percent of American art museums now center the public in their mission statements, not the object. They say that their purpose and mission is to serve and engage the public with art. Sixty percent of them don't even mention objects or collections. And yet, are they really doing the things to reflect and serve these new missions? In fact, when you look at them, they're often, their policies, their norms, their degree of transparency, which you mentioned, and their budgets seem to be much more anchored and aligned with their past missions than with their current missions. And as transparency itself goes, what we showed in a research project we released earlier this summer was that while the missions may center the public in the art museums per stated purpose, the transparency and the information they share do not center the public. And only 17 percent of American art museums share both their number of visitors and their consolidated financial statements. Something that's really kind of a base level of information. They all have this information. They all share it with their boards, but they don't yet share it with the public. So part of Remuseum's work is not just to promote innovation but to ask museums, and boards in particular, to hold themselves accountable to the missions and the public that they serve.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

It's a strange time because museums are fighting for eyeballs. There's all this digital distraction. At no other time, I think, has the average person felt so empowered, even without having art training, to create something. I think that, in some ways, this period of flourishing creativity outside the museum makes it so people aren’t necessarily drawn in to see the physical works of art with fresh eyes.

STEPHEN REILY

I think you've caught exactly the challenge and the opportunity for museums. The opportunity is that we have never had a public that is more passionate and obsessed with visual imagery. If the owners of the best original imagery in the world can't figure out how to take advantage of the fact that the world has now become obsessed with exactly these treasures that we have to offer as museums, then shame on us. You know, this is the opportunity to say that if you're spending all day scrolling on Instagram or other apps looking for amazing imagery, come and see the original source. Come and see the real work. Let us figure out how to make that connection.

At the same time, we need to be learning from them because there is a threat and there's a lot more innovation, frankly, going on in the visual world outside of museums. Whether it's apps like Instagram or Pinterest or whether it's commercial art enterprises. You know, many people are finding these immersive art experiences are a wonderful way to get to know and love the art of mainstream artists like Van Gogh or Monet. And the museum field generally looks down on that.

And I understand it's not necessarily deeply art-historical. It's not trying to transmit a deeper degree of knowledge. And yet, how can we learn from them? How can we learn from the Sphere in Las Vegas, which is employing artists to connect with musicians and give thousands, tens of thousands of people a day a way to experience visual art in a new way. The question is not, you know, museums might say, well, I don't want to sell out. That's not the question. The question is, how do you tap into that energy that the visual imagery is creating for humans all across the country that museums are failing and are not feeling like the places where the public can come experience. There are exceptions. I mean, I think that in the world of AI, museums are really doing interesting work. The Museum of Modern Art last year worked with the great artist Refik Anadol to create a work really grounded in the permanent collection of MoMA in a revolving, mutating kind of explosive giant screen of AI art. And I saw people sitting in the lobby at MoMA transfixed for hours by this work. It was a great new entry point. For young people, for people who might not have felt that the art at the Museum of Modern Art was for them to feel that, yes, this place was leaning into them. Many art critics scoffed at that, whether that was real art or not. But if you looked at the eyes of the visitors, it was becoming…it was art in their eyes. And that's why we have to be a little more expansive in what we share for audiences whose minds may be growing faster than museums are.

I certainly don't want to sound like the role of the curator is diminished in a reimagined role for the museum with its community. I think it asks curators, educators, and museum leaders to really lean deeply into their own missions and the communities they serve without fear. That's another thing. Artists don't have much fear, right? That's the amazing thing about them. And I think museums would do well to copy artists in that respect as well.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

As you think about the future and the importance of the arts, what would you like young people to know, preserve, and remember?

REILY

What I tell my children is to embrace the future and be prepared for the new ways of work, engagement, and citizenship that it may require because the only thing about the future is it shows us that many of the ways that we've been doing things are deeply flawed. And we have to always have the capacity to unthink the things we've been taught and the systems that we've adopted and embraced, which continue to create a lot of good, but also figure out how to balance them with better practices for the future.

This interview was conducted by Mia Funk and Ailin Xu with the participation of collaborating universities and students. Associate Interview Producers on this episode were Sam Myers and Ailin Xu. The Creative Process is produced by Mia Funk. Associate Text Editor was Daniela Cordovez Flores. Additional production support by Sophie Garnier.Mia Funk is an artist, interviewer and founder of The Creative Process & One Planet Podcast (Conversations about Climate Change & Environmental Solutions). Listen on Apple,Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Recently, twenty-three lecturers in the highly successful Creative Writing program at Stanford were summoned to a Zoom meeting where they were first praised, and then summarily fired. One of the most surprising aspects of this purge is the fact that it was carried out not by top-tier university administrators, but by tenure-track faculty in the program. It was they who decided to brutally terminate their colleagues. On this episode of the Speaking Out of Place podcast Professor David Palumbo-Liuspeaks with two of the lecturers who have been told they will leave Stanford in nine months, and one of their students, a published novelist. They explain the devastating nature of this act and share statistics and histories that show this was not at all necessary. Expediency for senior faculty trumped the survival of a carefully developed and nurtured community of creative writers.

Sarah Frisch is a former Wallace Stegner Fellow and current Lecturer in Stanford's Creative Writing Program. Her work has been published in The Paris Review, the VQR, and The New England Review. She’s won a Pushcart Prize and an Elizabeth George Foundation Grant for fiction and has been a finalist for the National Magazine Award. She holds an MFA in Fiction from Washington University in St. Louis.

Malavika Kannan is a queer fiction writer who graduated from Stanford University in 2024 with a minor in Creative Writing, where she served as the Creative Writing peer advisor. Her work appears in Washington Post, Teen Vogue, and elsewhere and her YA novel was published by Little & Brown in 2023. From the Chappell-Lougee and Major Grants to the IDA fellowship and the Honors in the Arts program, Malavika feels thankful for the many opportunities at Stanford to nurture her craft and all the people who supported her. Malavika feels very grateful to her mentor Nina Schloesser Tarano, a Jones Lecturer, for all her support.

Nina Schloesser Tárano was born and grew up in Guatemala City. She received her MFA from Columbia University. Her work has appeared in Fence and The New Inquiry Magazine. She was a Wallace Stegner Fellow in Fiction 2010-2012, and has been a lecturer in the Stanford Creative Writing Program since 2012.

Speaking Out of Place, which carries on the spirit of Palumbo-Liu’s book of the same title, argues against the notion that we are voiceless and powerless, and that we need politicians and pundits and experts to speak for us.

Judith Butler on Speaking Out of Place:

“In this work we see how every critical analysis of homelessness, displacement, internment, violence, and exploitation is countered by emergent and intensifying social movements that move beyond national borders to the ideal of a planetary alliance. As an activist and a scholar, Palumbo-Liu shows us what vigilance means in these times. This book takes us through the wretched landscape of our world to the ideals of social transformation, calling for a place, the planet, where collective passions can bring about a true and radical democracy.”

David Palumbo-Liu is the Louise Hewlett Nixon Professor and Professor of Comparative Literature at Stanford University. He has written widely on issues of literary criticism and theory, culture and society, race, ethnicity and indigeneity, human rights, and environmental justice. His books include The Deliverance of Others: Reading Literature in a Global Age, and Speaking Out of Place: Getting Our Political Voices Back. His writing has appeared in The Washington Post, The Guardian, The Nation, Al Jazeera, Jacobin, Truthout, and other venues.
Twitter/X @palumboliuApple Podcasts · Spotify · Website · Instagram

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What ignites curiosity in humans? How does our brain select things we need to know and ignore what isn’t essential? How does our perception shape what we know about the world?

Dr. Jacqueline Gottlieb is a Professor of Neuroscience and Principal Investigator at Columbia University’s Zuckerman Mind Brain Behavior Institute. Dr. Gottlieb studies the mechanisms that underlie the brain's higher cognitive functions, including decision making, memory, and attention. Her interest is in how the brain gathers the evidence it needs—and ignores what it doesn’t—during everyday tasks and during special states such as curiosity.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

Tell us about your journey. What drew you to neuroscience? As you learned more about the complexities of the human mind and how thoughts shape our actions, what led you to focus on the neural mechanisms of attention and curiosity?

JACQUELINE GOTTLIEB

I came to neuroscience from a humanistic perspective. I was very interested to find out who we are. What do we know? What do we think we know? Why do we think we know certain things? How do we see things? How do we perceive them?

Then I discovered that I was amazed by the precise way that cognitive neuroscience can measure these elusive mental functions, such as attention or memory. You know, it's something that happens in our heads, and it's very fleeting, yet there are experimental methods to really pinpoint them. And slowly I zeroed in on eye movements as this incredible marker of internal cognition. So, if you want to know what somebody is interested in or thinking about or what information they're processing? Eye movements are by no means a perfect marker. It's a very noisy marker, but it's one of the closest ones we have as an index. So why do eye movements tell us about what we think and what we find interesting? Ultimately, the question behind curiosity is what things we find interesting in our environment. The way I think about eye movements is that they really are trained in some largely subconscious process.

I liken eye movements to how we learn to control our skeletal movements. So, how do you learn? How do you stand up right now? How do you sit? How does your body maintain its posture? It's an enormously complicated process. The tens of muscles are controlled in very precise balance, but you're entirely unaware of this. So–and I think that we see similar things–when people do tasks like if you prepare tea or if when you drive, people have very, very consistent patterns of eye movements that are very exquisitely coordinated with what they do with their body. Very reproducible, very consistent. You can also see that they are learned.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

One thing that I really loved hearing from you is that curiosity is the most important thing about our behavior and our brain function. And I love hearing that because sometimes I feel my mind is like a butterfly, too curious about everything, and there's just so much to learn and not enough time. So it's nice to hear that curiosity is valorized, although as you identify, it may sometimes seem like general curiosity does not have a direct purpose. Why do you think this is, and why do you feel curiosity has been often neglected by neuroscience?

GOTTLIEB

That's a very interesting question, and I think there are good reasons for it. As scientists, we like to be reductionists, right? Brain and behavior are hugely complicated questions, and so we simplify them to study them in the lab. Our field has pursued two major traditions: one is the Cognitivist tradition, so people like William James and many others are really fascinated by mental operations. Things like attention, memory, mental imagery, or language. People study the capacities. What is it that we can do? What are the limits? How many items can we memorize? How, for how long? And so on and so forth.

The other half of our field studies decision-making and motivated behavior. That is, what do we like? What do we want? How hard are we willing to work for something we want? And those two fields have really split. So the, so the decision making, half of our field was dominated by behaviorism, founded by B. F. Skinner, and their feeling was, well, all this mental stuff is a bit elusive, and I don't know how to measure it, and it feels like magic and hocus pocus.

But here's what I can do. I can take a rat and put it in a simple cage, and I can make the rat very hungry and give it a lever that delivers food and another that delivers nothing. With this, I will tell you precisely how many times the rat will press the food lever as a function of time. It's just a stimulus-response agent, and it's all about motivation and rewards. That field has gotten very far and has described a number of phenomena, but what happens is that these traditions have continued each one on its track. They have become separate from each other. We have a big social divide among the researchers who pursue these questions. We're now at a point where each field is developed enough that there is nowhere else to go unless you combine the two. Curiosity is precisely the intersection of those things. It has to do with the desire for information.

I need to know how I process information, what it is, and whether I want it. That's precisely curiosity. The time has come to unify these, and it's a huge undertaking because we're talking on each side of the cognitivist and behaviorist traditions. You have hundreds of scientists working on each side; they each have their ideas, and they each have been educated in their traditions. And linking them is going to take several decades, I think, to have a good integration. It's just starting.

This truly has been an explosion of research. When I started thinking about this question, I could barely find anybody who was interested in it. We didn't even know how to begin to ask the question. How do you even formulate that? That is precisely the gap between those two fields because we need to understand how we process information, understand the task, and cognitively represent the situation. Then, we need to understand what you are motivated to do about that situation, in this case, with your eyes.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

So what have you learned? I know that you've mainly studied humans and non-human primates, but what have you learned then from general animal communication?

GOTTLIEB

The way I tend to think about eye movements in general is in terms of a question and answer. I think about the act of making an eye movement like a question that you pose to the world, and you answer that question for yourself by looking at someone.

For example, when you look at a weather forecast, you have partial reliability of information. And then, you combine how uncertain you were to begin with the new information and weigh them by the reliability. If you think the reliability of your source is low, then you're not going to listen to it that much. But if you think the reliability is high, you should listen to it more. And then you update your beliefs. The problem is that knowing these probabilities while making decisions is extremely difficult. What the probabilities are that we're talking about and what our questions are are extremely difficult. And mathematical theory doesn't tell you that. So, to really understand the questions that an individual has at a moment in time, you have to understand the entire individual, what they know, and what they care about. And I wanted to say that because you talked about social communication, I think that eye movements, in particular, really have two functions. One is answering our questions, like I said, gathering visual information, but the other question is in social signaling. In a social context, eye movements can signal your intentions and, in a sense, act on other social beings.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

I want to go back to this element of focus and attention. We're talking about AI, and it's been on a lot of our mindset relation to focus when we're bombarded by so much information, devices, distractions, and sleeplessness. It's affecting our ability to do our jobs, be reflective, and be present in the moment. How do you feel we can protect ourselves and our children from the distractions of having their brains rewired by their devices, apps, and technology? Is our brain equipped to deal with our modern world? How do we better fortify it for this kind of onslaught, which wasn't around even ten years ago?

GOTTLIEB

Those are very important questions. I think that our brain is equipped to deal with the onslaught because we have an onslaught of information the moment we open our eyes. We evolved to deal with an onslaught of information, and we are masters at focusing and ignoring vast amounts of information. Now, AI in this digital age is a relatively new stream of information, which is man-made, so we make it more salient. So, yes, it's harder to ignore it, but people can learn to ignore it, and indeed, it's a learning process. I think it will also require learning how to teach our children. I mean, we're raising generations of kids who will take AI and the digital world as a given. To them, it will be no different than a chair and a table were to us. So they will learn to not be so distracted by chairs and tables.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

You're in New York City, so what do you feel about the effects of urbanization on people living in close proximity to cities with its added distractions, and how that may affect their curiosity, attention, imagination, memory, and focus?

GOTTLIEB

People adapt; our brains are very hierarchically organized. At the highest level of the hierarchy are our wants and values. What do I need? We all need to eat, have social contact, and be safe. That's the highest level of the hierarchy. Then you have your values, right? What are your social values and moral values? And then you have your long-term knowledge. What do you know about the world? That determines how you interpret everything around you. So, what do you know about the world? What more do you want to know? What are your competencies? What do you know how to do? So those levels really control what information you're seeking at the moment by moment.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

You've spoken about the misperception that many people have about scientists. In contrast with artists, people feel that scientists are very rigid people who are not very creative, and in truth, creativity is crucial, as crucial in science as it is in art. So, how do you personally tap into your creativity and curiosity to imagine while still adhering to the rules of science?

GOTTLIEB

This is my favorite thing about science–that you can be creative. I absolutely think that science has to be just as a creative art. It's just that we have different ways of generating and answering questions.

If you ask somebody, what is curiosity? The answer you'll probably get most frequently would be the desire to know. But I think that a much better answer is the desire to ask questions. And these are very different. If you've just mapped out your living room, you've got to say, okay, now I need something new. I need some uncertainty. I need to go outside, even though it might be scary. I need to expose myself to that uncertainty in order to learn. And then once you learn, once you've gone out to your yard and you've learned that yard, you say, okay, well, now I know my backyard. Now, I need to expose myself to uncertainty again to learn something new. So, curiosity is the desire to ask the question in order to learn.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

How much do you feel that memory influences our imagination? I know you also study memory, and I'm interested in intergenerational trauma and how this affects our decision-making processes. I ask because I just came out of a conversation with a journalist and foreign correspondent for the New York Times, Nicholas Kristof. He's written about 170 countries, and he was telling me about having mild PTSD from all the things he's witnessed. So, how do you feel that being born in Israel and its collective memory has influenced your curiosity, memory, and the way you view the world?

GOTTLIEB

I mentioned the cognitivists and behaviorists–all the neuroscientists–who think of information as being given to you bottom up. Again, as if signals come from the outside. But then you realize that this is impossible, that the outside world is way too infinite. Instead, what happens is your brain sort of builds yourself: you build through all your life experiences, episodic and semantic memories: that is your knowledge bank, and that is what generates your curiosities.

You asked how growing up in Israel influenced where I am. I think that the way it influenced where I am– it's interesting– it's being in between. My dad was Jewish and my mother was a Christian, an Orthodox Romanian. So I was, in that sense, born confused. I never belonged to any group. I always felt like I was in between two camps, between two significant traditions. I was born in Romania, and I was educated in a Romanian, European way, more Christian than Jewish. Then we moved to Israel, and that was a big culture shock. I was exposed to more Judaism and the Israeli reality, which was very different from where I grew up. I think that's how it shaped me. I'm not a tribal person, for better or for worse.

One of the most fundamental values I learned from my dad is tolerance and open-mindedness. You have to take every person at face value. This is what I think has the most profound influence on me. I'm always open-minded, and I always want to look at both sides. And this is why I think I sensed this social divide coming to psychology and neuroscience. I noticed that many of my colleagues were perfectly happy to stay in their lane, stay in their tribe, and as long as their tribe agrees, you're happy, and you never need to get outside of that. But I'm someone who needs to get outside the tribe. I mean, I map out the borders of my tribe and the way I was taught to think, but then I'm like, wait a second, there's a lot more out there. I need to go out. And I don't want to see competition. I have a tendency to bring things together. That's funny. I never quite thought about this in the context of my life, but I guess that's what shaped the way that I think the most.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

What role do you believe that neuroscience can play in understanding and motivating behavioral change for a sustainable future?

GOTTLIEB

One of the most important things that neuroscientists can propose is people's reactions to uncertainty. Information is actually all about uncertainty. Some people are more willing to embrace uncertainty, especially if they can learn from it. Other people would do anything to protect themselves from uncertainty, so this is part of the echo chamber phenomenon.

It's like saying that maybe what this other person is saying has a grain of truth to it, but it's just so hard for me to think about it that I'd rather ignore it. I'd rather stay in my safe space. So, people differ. There are emotional and cognitive reactions, and I think that this is where our thinking and our emotions are very closely intertwined in how we deal with uncertainty.

So we've all experienced this sense of awe at the vastness of things in nature, and I think that is a beautiful sense. You're in awe at the vastness things that go beyond your capabilities, also capabilities of understanding and capabilities of knowledge. So I look at it as kind of a form of extreme uncertainty that is not threatening. We can relax. It's pleasurable and inspiring. So, maybe if we can remember the sense of awe that we have with certain things, we can help ourselves when, when we have uncertainties (climate change) that are threatening, maybe that's something that we can use to calm us down. About dealing with climate change, people do adjust, and I think we should enable, so far as policy comes about, a lot of policy has to be geared towards allowing people to adapt. Let's say you think that sea level will rise in a particular area. Well, you can build a bigger dam, right? Or, you can build bigger walls. So, the more resources people have, the more efficient they will be in adapting to whatever comes their way.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

What has been important to you on this journey in pursuit of knowledge and in your creative exploration of the sciences? As you reflect on education, the future, and those teachers who inspired you and made you believe in yourself, what would you like young people to know, preserve, and remember?

GOTTLIEB

I would exhort young people to keep an open mind. One thing that I try to teach my students is, for example, when you read a paper or hear somebody talk about their experiment, try to think about what is not there. Try to bring yourself in, pay a lot of attention, all your resources consumed by understanding what the person says, but see if you can take a mental step back and look at what they say from a slightly different perspective. Look for the contradictions. And don't be afraid of the contradictions because those are the fertile ground for making progress. Right? So, look for the contradictions. Contradictions are good for scientists. If you find them, the more glaring they are, the more progress you can make by trying to resolve them.

Photo credit: John AbbottThis interview was conducted by Mia Funk and Daniela Cordovez Flores with the participation of collaborating universities and students. Associate Interview Producer and Associate Text Editor on this episode was Daniela Cordovez Flores. The Creative Process is produced by Mia Funk. Additional production support by Katie Foster.Mia Funk is an artist, interviewer and founder of The Creative Process & One Planet Podcast (Conversations about Climate Change & Environmental Solutions). Listen on Apple,Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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What ignites curiosity in humans? How does our brain select things we need to know and ignore what isn’t essential? How does our perception shape what we know about the world?

Dr. Jacqueline Gottlieb is a Professor of Neuroscience and Principal Investigator at Columbia University’s Zuckerman Mind Brain Behavior Institute. Dr. Gottlieb studies the mechanisms that underlie the brain's higher cognitive functions, including decision making, memory, and attention. Her interest is in how the brain gathers the evidence it needs—and ignores what it doesn’t—during everyday tasks and during special states such as curiosity.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

Tell us about your journey. What drew you to neuroscience? As you learned more about the complexities of the human mind and how thoughts shape our actions, what led you to focus on the neural mechanisms of attention and curiosity?

JACQUELINE GOTTLIEB

I came to neuroscience from a humanistic perspective. I was very interested to find out who we are. What do we know? What do we think we know? Why do we think we know certain things? How do we see things? How do we perceive them?

Then I discovered that I was amazed by the precise way that cognitive neuroscience can measure these elusive mental functions, such as attention or memory. You know, it's something that happens in our heads, and it's very fleeting, yet there are experimental methods to really pinpoint them. And slowly I zeroed in on eye movements as this incredible marker of internal cognition. So, if you want to know what somebody is interested in or thinking about or what information they're processing? Eye movements are by no means a perfect marker. It's a very noisy marker, but it's one of the closest ones we have as an index. So why do eye movements tell us about what we think and what we find interesting? Ultimately, the question behind curiosity is what things we find interesting in our environment. The way I think about eye movements is that they really are trained in some largely subconscious process.

I liken eye movements to how we learn to control our skeletal movements. So, how do you learn? How do you stand up right now? How do you sit? How does your body maintain its posture? It's an enormously complicated process. The tens of muscles are controlled in very precise balance, but you're entirely unaware of this. So–and I think that we see similar things–when people do tasks like if you prepare tea or if when you drive, people have very, very consistent patterns of eye movements that are very exquisitely coordinated with what they do with their body. Very reproducible, very consistent. You can also see that they are learned.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

One thing that I really loved hearing from you is that curiosity is the most important thing about our behavior and our brain function. And I love hearing that because sometimes I feel my mind is like a butterfly, too curious about everything, and there's just so much to learn and not enough time. So it's nice to hear that curiosity is valorized, although as you identify, it may sometimes seem like general curiosity does not have a direct purpose. Why do you think this is, and why do you feel curiosity has been often neglected by neuroscience?

GOTTLIEB

That's a very interesting question, and I think there are good reasons for it. As scientists, we like to be reductionists, right? Brain and behavior are hugely complicated questions, and so we simplify them to study them in the lab. Our field has pursued two major traditions: one is the Cognitivist tradition, so people like William James and many others are really fascinated by mental operations. Things like attention, memory, mental imagery, or language. People study the capacities. What is it that we can do? What are the limits? How many items can we memorize? How, for how long? And so on and so forth.

The other half of our field studies decision-making and motivated behavior. That is, what do we like? What do we want? How hard are we willing to work for something we want? And those two fields have really split. So the, so the decision making, half of our field was dominated by behaviorism, founded by B. F. Skinner, and their feeling was, well, all this mental stuff is a bit elusive, and I don't know how to measure it, and it feels like magic and hocus pocus.

But here's what I can do. I can take a rat and put it in a simple cage, and I can make the rat very hungry and give it a lever that delivers food and another that delivers nothing. With this, I will tell you precisely how many times the rat will press the food lever as a function of time. It's just a stimulus-response agent, and it's all about motivation and rewards. That field has gotten very far and has described a number of phenomena, but what happens is that these traditions have continued each one on its track. They have become separate from each other. We have a big social divide among the researchers who pursue these questions. We're now at a point where each field is developed enough that there is nowhere else to go unless you combine the two. Curiosity is precisely the intersection of those things. It has to do with the desire for information.

I need to know how I process information, what it is, and whether I want it. That's precisely curiosity. The time has come to unify these, and it's a huge undertaking because we're talking on each side of the cognitivist and behaviorist traditions. You have hundreds of scientists working on each side; they each have their ideas, and they each have been educated in their traditions. And linking them is going to take several decades, I think, to have a good integration. It's just starting.

This truly has been an explosion of research. When I started thinking about this question, I could barely find anybody who was interested in it. We didn't even know how to begin to ask the question. How do you even formulate that? That is precisely the gap between those two fields because we need to understand how we process information, understand the task, and cognitively represent the situation. Then, we need to understand what you are motivated to do about that situation, in this case, with your eyes.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

So what have you learned? I know that you've mainly studied humans and non-human primates, but what have you learned then from general animal communication?

GOTTLIEB

The way I tend to think about eye movements in general is in terms of a question and answer. I think about the act of making an eye movement like a question that you pose to the world, and you answer that question for yourself by looking at someone.

For example, when you look at a weather forecast, you have partial reliability of information. And then, you combine how uncertain you were to begin with the new information and weigh them by the reliability. If you think the reliability of your source is low, then you're not going to listen to it that much. But if you think the reliability is high, you should listen to it more. And then you update your beliefs. The problem is that knowing these probabilities while making decisions is extremely difficult. What the probabilities are that we're talking about and what our questions are are extremely difficult. And mathematical theory doesn't tell you that. So, to really understand the questions that an individual has at a moment in time, you have to understand the entire individual, what they know, and what they care about. And I wanted to say that because you talked about social communication, I think that eye movements, in particular, really have two functions. One is answering our questions, like I said, gathering visual information, but the other question is in social signaling. In a social context, eye movements can signal your intentions and, in a sense, act on other social beings.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

I want to go back to this element of focus and attention. We're talking about AI, and it's been on a lot of our mindset relation to focus when we're bombarded by so much information, devices, distractions, and sleeplessness. It's affecting our ability to do our jobs, be reflective, and be present in the moment. How do you feel we can protect ourselves and our children from the distractions of having their brains rewired by their devices, apps, and technology? Is our brain equipped to deal with our modern world? How do we better fortify it for this kind of onslaught, which wasn't around even ten years ago?

GOTTLIEB

Those are very important questions. I think that our brain is equipped to deal with the onslaught because we have an onslaught of information the moment we open our eyes. We evolved to deal with an onslaught of information, and we are masters at focusing and ignoring vast amounts of information. Now, AI in this digital age is a relatively new stream of information, which is man-made, so we make it more salient. So, yes, it's harder to ignore it, but people can learn to ignore it, and indeed, it's a learning process. I think it will also require learning how to teach our children. I mean, we're raising generations of kids who will take AI and the digital world as a given. To them, it will be no different than a chair and a table were to us. So they will learn to not be so distracted by chairs and tables.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

You're in New York City, so what do you feel about the effects of urbanization on people living in close proximity to cities with its added distractions, and how that may affect their curiosity, attention, imagination, memory, and focus?

GOTTLIEB

People adapt; our brains are very hierarchically organized. At the highest level of the hierarchy are our wants and values. What do I need? We all need to eat, have social contact, and be safe. That's the highest level of the hierarchy. Then you have your values, right? What are your social values and moral values? And then you have your long-term knowledge. What do you know about the world? That determines how you interpret everything around you. So, what do you know about the world? What more do you want to know? What are your competencies? What do you know how to do? So those levels really control what information you're seeking at the moment by moment.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

You've spoken about the misperception that many people have about scientists. In contrast with artists, people feel that scientists are very rigid people who are not very creative, and in truth, creativity is crucial, as crucial in science as it is in art. So, how do you personally tap into your creativity and curiosity to imagine while still adhering to the rules of science?

GOTTLIEB

This is my favorite thing about science–that you can be creative. I absolutely think that science has to be just as a creative art. It's just that we have different ways of generating and answering questions.

If you ask somebody, what is curiosity? The answer you'll probably get most frequently would be the desire to know. But I think that a much better answer is the desire to ask questions. And these are very different. If you've just mapped out your living room, you've got to say, okay, now I need something new. I need some uncertainty. I need to go outside, even though it might be scary. I need to expose myself to that uncertainty in order to learn. And then once you learn, once you've gone out to your yard and you've learned that yard, you say, okay, well, now I know my backyard. Now, I need to expose myself to uncertainty again to learn something new. So, curiosity is the desire to ask the question in order to learn.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

How much do you feel that memory influences our imagination? I know you also study memory, and I'm interested in intergenerational trauma and how this affects our decision-making processes. I ask because I just came out of a conversation with a journalist and foreign correspondent for the New York Times, Nicholas Kristof. He's written about 170 countries, and he was telling me about having mild PTSD from all the things he's witnessed. So, how do you feel that being born in Israel and its collective memory has influenced your curiosity, memory, and the way you view the world?

GOTTLIEB

I mentioned the cognitivists and behaviorists–all the neuroscientists–who think of information as being given to you bottom up. Again, as if signals come from the outside. But then you realize that this is impossible, that the outside world is way too infinite. Instead, what happens is your brain sort of builds yourself: you build through all your life experiences, episodic and semantic memories: that is your knowledge bank, and that is what generates your curiosities.

You asked how growing up in Israel influenced where I am. I think that the way it influenced where I am– it's interesting– it's being in between. My dad was Jewish and my mother was a Christian, an Orthodox Romanian. So I was, in that sense, born confused. I never belonged to any group. I always felt like I was in between two camps, between two significant traditions. I was born in Romania, and I was educated in a Romanian, European way, more Christian than Jewish. Then we moved to Israel, and that was a big culture shock. I was exposed to more Judaism and the Israeli reality, which was very different from where I grew up. I think that's how it shaped me. I'm not a tribal person, for better or for worse.

One of the most fundamental values I learned from my dad is tolerance and open-mindedness. You have to take every person at face value. This is what I think has the most profound influence on me. I'm always open-minded, and I always want to look at both sides. And this is why I think I sensed this social divide coming to psychology and neuroscience. I noticed that many of my colleagues were perfectly happy to stay in their lane, stay in their tribe, and as long as their tribe agrees, you're happy, and you never need to get outside of that. But I'm someone who needs to get outside the tribe. I mean, I map out the borders of my tribe and the way I was taught to think, but then I'm like, wait a second, there's a lot more out there. I need to go out. And I don't want to see competition. I have a tendency to bring things together. That's funny. I never quite thought about this in the context of my life, but I guess that's what shaped the way that I think the most.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

What role do you believe that neuroscience can play in understanding and motivating behavioral change for a sustainable future?

GOTTLIEB

One of the most important things that neuroscientists can propose is people's reactions to uncertainty. Information is actually all about uncertainty. Some people are more willing to embrace uncertainty, especially if they can learn from it. Other people would do anything to protect themselves from uncertainty, so this is part of the echo chamber phenomenon.

It's like saying that maybe what this other person is saying has a grain of truth to it, but it's just so hard for me to think about it that I'd rather ignore it. I'd rather stay in my safe space. So, people differ. There are emotional and cognitive reactions, and I think that this is where our thinking and our emotions are very closely intertwined in how we deal with uncertainty.

So we've all experienced this sense of awe at the vastness of things in nature, and I think that is a beautiful sense. You're in awe at the vastness things that go beyond your capabilities, also capabilities of understanding and capabilities of knowledge. So I look at it as kind of a form of extreme uncertainty that is not threatening. We can relax. It's pleasurable and inspiring. So, maybe if we can remember the sense of awe that we have with certain things, we can help ourselves when, when we have uncertainties (climate change) that are threatening, maybe that's something that we can use to calm us down. About dealing with climate change, people do adjust, and I think we should enable, so far as policy comes about, a lot of policy has to be geared towards allowing people to adapt. Let's say you think that sea level will rise in a particular area. Well, you can build a bigger dam, right? Or, you can build bigger walls. So, the more resources people have, the more efficient they will be in adapting to whatever comes their way.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS

What has been important to you on this journey in pursuit of knowledge and in your creative exploration of the sciences? As you reflect on education, the future, and those teachers who inspired you and made you believe in yourself, what would you like young people to know, preserve, and remember?

GOTTLIEB

I would exhort young people to keep an open mind. One thing that I try to teach my students is, for example, when you read a paper or hear somebody talk about their experiment, try to think about what is not there. Try to bring yourself in, pay a lot of attention, all your resources consumed by understanding what the person says, but see if you can take a mental step back and look at what they say from a slightly different perspective. Look for the contradictions. And don't be afraid of the contradictions because those are the fertile ground for making progress. Right? So, look for the contradictions. Contradictions are good for scientists. If you find them, the more glaring they are, the more progress you can make by trying to resolve them.

Photo credit: John AbbottThis interview was conducted by Mia Funk and Daniela Cordovez Flores with the participation of collaborating universities and students. Associate Interview Producer and Associate Text Editor on this episode was Daniela Cordovez Flores. The Creative Process is produced by Mia Funk. Additional production support by Katie Foster.Mia Funk is an artist, interviewer and founder of The Creative Process & One Planet Podcast (Conversations about Climate Change & Environmental Solutions). Listen on Apple,Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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How can journalism make people care and bring about solutions? What role does storytelling play in shining a light on injustice and crises and creating a catalyst for change?

Nicholas D. Kristof is a two-time Pulitzer-winning journalist and Op-ed columnist for The New York Times, where he was previously bureau chief in Hong Kong, Beijing, and Tokyo. Kristof is a regular CNN contributor and has covered, among many other events and crises, the Tiananmen Square protests, the Darfur genocide, the Yemeni civil war, and the U.S. opioid crisis. He is the author of the memoir Chasing Hope, A Reporter's Life, and coauthor, with his wife, Sheryl WuDunn, of five previous books: Tightrope, A Path Appears, Half the Sky, Thunder from the East, and China Wakes.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

You've been to 170 countries, and in your book Chasing Hope, you've written on the value of witnessing the world's atrocities, neglected conflicts, human rights abuses, and how you then turn these into stories that will call on people to act. How do you find your way into a story?

NICHOLAS KRISTOF

So the backdrop of Chasing Hope came when I was trying to cover the Darfur genocide in the early 2000s. I was making these trips and reporting on the horrific massacres, and it just felt as if these columns were just disappearing without a ripple. At the same time in New York City, all of Manhattan was up in arms about these two hawks that had been pushed out of an apartment building where they had a nest because the building didn't like their bird droppings. And I thought, “how is it that I can't generate the same outrage people feel for these two homeless hawks for hundreds of thousands of people? What's wrong with my writing? Why can't I connect with people on these issues?” So that led me to the work of what makes us care. And one of those lessons is that it's an emotional process—an emotional connection not a rational one—you have to tell stories about individuals. I'm always going out to find not just an individual story, but the most compelling story—somebody that people can relate to.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

And I wonder what role growing up in a small town (Yamhill, Oregon) played in the kind of journalist you’ve become? You get to know almost everyone in the town, I imagine, and you can see behind their stories in a way and all sectors of society that we might not get in big cities where we have this tunnel vision and stick with our groups?

KRISTOF

Growing up in a tiny town very much affected my journalism and how I see the world, in the sense that it always felt to me that national media establishments neglect small towns like mine, people like those around me, and the issues that concern us. An example is addiction—we've got more than 100,000 people a year dying from overdoses, including many of my old friends, and I don't think that America has come to terms with that adequately. When we try to cover what is happening in other countries, we go to the capital, talk to officials, and typically talk to university educated men who speak English, but that's a pretty tiny slice. That has encouraged me to talk to other people to understand what is happening more broadly.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

And you talk about the personal emotional stories, and I wonder how do you protect yourself emotionally—how do you keep your empathy in check, skepticism, critical thinking or neutrality, in these emotionally charged situations when you might be meeting warlords or covering human trafficking and witnessing these terrors? You begin Chasing Hope going down in a small plane in the heart of the Congo Civil War. With so much going on, how do you remain clear minded in those situations and also, journalistically, how do you develop that courage and strength?

KRISTOF

In writing Chasing Hope, I self diagnosed myself with a mild case of PTSD. It's probably parallel to an emergency room physician who is surrounded by trauma victims, but you have to create some distance from that pain just to get through the day. Where my armor breaks down is in particular where children are involved or where somebody that I am close to, such as my interpreter, has been in jeopardy and I fear that I’ll put somebody at risk. Every now and then unexpectedly, I’ll interview somebody and find myself completely tearing up.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

And I'm just wondering about all the places that you've been. What are some of those things that still haunt you?

KRISTOF

June 4th, 1989 Tiananmen Square in China is certainly high on that list. I was the Beijing bureau chief of The New York Times and had covered the Tiananmen democracy movement. It had seemed so full of hope, but that terrible night, I heard that the troops were busting through student lines and headed toward Tiananmen. I rode my bike and got to Tiananmen Square a little bit before the troops did. And then they arrived and opened fire on the crowd that I was in. I was terrified. To watch a modern army turn weapons of war on unarmed protesters—that changes you. Frankly, at first, I was a little bit disdainful of some of the less educated protesters at Tiananmen, and I wrote periodically that although they say they're for democracy, they can't define the kind of democracy they're in favor of. That night, though, it was those uneducated workers and peasants who were driving their rickshaws out whenever there was a pause in the firing to pick up bodies of kids who'd been killed or injured, who blocked the troops. One bus driver saw troops coming in trucks, so he parked his bus across the road to keep the trucks away and turned off the engine. Then when the officer pointed his firearm at him and demanded he move the bus, he just hurled the keys into the high grass. People like that might not have been able to define democracy, but they were willing to risk their lives for it. And I think there's a lot we can learn from the courage and commitment of people like that whom I witnessed in June 1989.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

Yes, that coverage was so moving, and so were those other books that you've co-authored with your wife, Sheryl WuDunn, China Wakes, Thunder from the East, Half the Sky, among others. And you were the first married couple to jointly receive a Pulitzer for journalism. How do you work together to jointly tell a story?

KRISTOF

It's funny because people always ask that question, and there's a little bit of a hint of how do you guys write books together and stay married? We also have three kids, and the truth is that if you can raise kids together and stay married, a book is a piece of cake. It really is. And you know, you put a manuscript down at night. It stays down. A manuscript can't play you off each other. At the end of the day, if you screw up on a manuscript, it's only a manuscript. It's not like screwing up on a kid. More seriously, it helped to have Sheryl and me working on these things together.

China, after Tiananmen, was a somewhat dispiriting time. We were tailed a lot. We dealt with really tough ethical decisions, and it really helped to have somebody who was engaged in this business who understood the risks. We could talk through some of these questions about what our moral responsibilities were to our sources and to our readers.

When we wrote Half the Sky about empowering women around the world, if it had been just a woman writing that book, it would have been marginalized as just a woman's issue. And it would have been weird if it had been just a man writing it, but I think a man and a woman addressing gender inequity together underscores that this is an issue that affects all of us, whatever our sex. And that we all have to get to work to try to address it. So, it's been a wonderful partnership.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

You also describe your early posting as New York Times bureau chief in Hong Kong during a kind of golden age of print journalism where you had more time to explore, whereas now, with the attention economy and clickbait, so much has changed. What are your reflections on the future of journalism?

KRISTOF

Traditionally, newspapers were often monopolies or oligopolies, and so they were making money and perfectly fine being committed to covering important things that readers weren't terribly interested in. That business model has collapsed for local journalism around the country. We're losing an average of two and a half newspapers each week around the country, and we've lost more newspaper journalists than we have coal miners over the last decade. In terms of national,international coverage, The New York Times still has a good business model. The Washington Post has a business model in the sense that Jeff Bezos has a large checkbook. The Wall Street Journal is doing okay, but the news weeklies are collapsing, and television is struggling. There are still reporters covering the war in Ukraine and the war in Gaza, but you don't have many reporters covering what's probably the world's biggest humanitarian crisis right now—the famine in Sudan. It's just like how Yemen wasn't getting much coverage when it was the biggest crisis. I think that's fundamentally because it's expensive and dangerous to cover those kinds of international stories, and there's not much of an audience for it. Once, I did back-to-back columns about the Yemen humanitarian crisis and Brett Kavanaugh when he was nominated for the Supreme Court. The Kavanaugh piece—I could whip off in a few hours, while the Yemen piece resulted from an expensive, dangerous trip to Yemen. But the Kavanaugh piece got seven times as many page views, so you can understand why an executive producer wouldn't want to send a camera crew to Yemen when they can just put a Democrat and a Republican in a studio together and have them yell at each other.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

Your writing has inspired Bill and Melinda Gates to focus their philanthropy on global health. Robert DeVecchi, the former president of the International Rescue Committee, said your coverage of the genocide in Darfur saved hundreds of thousands of lives. Considering the changing face of journalism, how can we continue to be a catalyst for positive change?

KRISTOF

I hope that we come up with a solid business model for journalism. I'm actually planning a trip to Sudan right now and it will probably lose money for The Times, but they're willing to send me to cover pieces that maybe only my mother and wife will read. We need a better business model for journalism as a whole. I think that there may be ways for journalists to partner with aid groups and think tanks around the world to cover crises.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

Your parents were educators, and you've also created mentorship programs where you've taken young journalists on the road with you to help bring them along that pathway toward journalism. You've been an outspoken advocate for education reform. What are your reflections on education, and how can we improve our education models to prepare people not just for the jobs of the 21st but to be more engaged global citizens?

KRISTOF

If you look over the last 500 years or so, the best metric to predict where society will be in 30 or 50 years, the best metric is simply education today. One reason I think the U.S. is the world's largest and most successful economy today is that, beginning in the 19th century and through about 1970, the U.S. led the world in mass education. And what matters is not so much elite education. Britain had Eton, Oxford, and Cambridge, and it had better elite education, but it wasn't great at mass education. And the U.S. really was. We were the first country to have almost universal literacy, male and female. We were the first country to have widespread high school attendance and the first country to have significant college attendance. And then, beginning in about the 1970s, we lost that lead. And now, there are many countries that are way ahead of us. I think back to my old classmates who are now dead, and I think: What were adults thinking in the 1970s that they let them drop out? And yet, I think today: What are adults thinking in 2024 when they let one in seven American kids today drop out of high school and let so many emerge from the school system not literate, not numerate, completely unprepared for the 21st century?

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

Yes. And for somebody who's always gone out into the world, who's derived their knowledge from one-on-one to understanding what it is in the world, what are your reflections on how AI is changing the way we communicate with ourselves, our imagination, and journalism itself? How can we prepare everyone, especially young people, for these uncertain futures?

KRISTOF

There have been some alarming experiments that show AI arguments are better at persuading people than humans are at persuading people. I think that's partly because humans tend to make the arguments that we ourselves find most persuasive. For example, a liberal will make the arguments that will appeal to liberals, but the person you're probably trying to persuade is somebody in the center. We're just not good at putting ourselves in other people's shoes. That's something I try very hard to do in the column, but I often fall short. And with AI, I think people are going to become more vulnerable to being manipulated. I think we're at risk of being manipulated by our own cognitive biases and the tendency to reach out for information sources that will confirm our prejudices. Years ago, the theorist Nicholas Negroponte wrote that the internet was going to bring a product he called the Daily Me—basically information perfectly targeted to our own brains—and that's kind of what we've gotten now. A conservative will get conservative sources that show how awful Democrats are and will have information that buttresses that point of view, while liberals will get the liberal version of that. So, I think we have to try to understand those cognitive biases and understand the degree to which we are all vulnerable to being fooled by selection bias. I'd like to see high schools, in particular, have more information training and media literacy programs so that younger people can learn that there are some news sources that are a little better than others and that just because you see something on Facebook doesn't make it true.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

Exactly. There's checks and balances, so it is important to understand fake news, misinformation, and disinformation. You said your experience in China helped you have a certain respect for the mechanisms of capitalism, even though it doesn't work perfectly, and it hasn't worked perfectly in terms of how we are stewards of the planet. This you've seen from your travels around the world, these decisions that cause ecological degradation because we're not seeing further down the line to the future. I know that maintaining ecological balance is important for you. You have practical working knowledge since you were raised on a farm and to this day you and your family run a 25-acre farm in Yamhill, Oregon. What, in your view, is holding us back from moving forward on environmental issues?

KRISTOF

I think that the problem is a classic economic problem of tragedy of the commons—the fact that any one country is going to benefit if other countries reduce carbon emissions but is going to suffer when it itself does means there's always a tendency to want other countries to lead the way. Since the industrial revolution began, the US point of view is that we can't get anywhere unless India and China reduce carbon emissions, while India and China say if you look over the last one hundred years, the US is the one who put out all the carbon, and we're just finally getting a little bit richer and you want to cut us off at the knees.

There are arguments to be made on both sides, but the fundamental impediment is that 10 years ago, it just seemed really hard to see how we were going to get out of climate change and disastrous consequences, but right now, if you squint a little bit, you can maybe see a path through this period where we reduce carbon emissions enough to figure out how to navigate our way to a future in which things work and we pay a price, but one that is manageable. Green energy is becoming much cheaper because of a revolution in battery technology, and now there are possibilities for a field-like energy generated by waves or fusion nuclear power to remove carbon from the air with direct air capture. We're not sure that these will work, but they may, and they would really be revolutionary. China is an interesting example of a country that has made remarkable progress on electrification and battery technology. It is still pushing out a ton of carbon, but it has done this for practical reasons—it understands that those are key technologies for the future and whoever figures out how to get electric vehicles done right, whoever figures out how to get battery technology right, the world is going to benefit from their progress in battery technology, just as the world has benefited by having solar panels made in China go up all over the world.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

You know, we're so glad that Chasing Hope allows us to understand some of these backstories that make or don't make the cut when you're writing an article, but how do you narrow that down when there's so many fascinating details to what would be the most poignant to bring across the essence of the story?

KRISTOF

That's the perpetual challenge of storytelling. It's what Homer was wrestling with 800 years ago and what we wrestle with today. But I think one of the lessons of storytelling is that you pick the elements that will move a reader. In my case, I'm trying to get people to care about a crisis in ways that may bring solutions to it. And that's also how I deal with the terror and the fear to find a sense of purpose in what I do. It's incredibly heartbreaking to see some of the things and hear some of the stories, but at the end of the day, it feels like–inconsistently here and there–you can shine a light on problems, and by shining that light, you actually make a difference.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

And as you think about the future, those teachers who have been important to you, and the importance of storytelling, what would you like young people to know, preserve, and remember?

KRISTOF

I think a lot of young people today are focused on what might be called résumé qualities. I was proud to be the youngest foreign correspondent at the Times and then youngest national correspondent, winning a Pulitzer, these kinds of things, but overtime, I came to see more importance and reward in finding a purpose, finding meaning, paying it forward, and giving back—the eulogy qualities, the kind of things people say when they remember you, not the résumé qualities. It's the importance of finding friends, emphasizing family, and doing things that give you that sense of fulfillment and meaning, keep you going, and give you a cause larger than yourself to hold on to. I, too, am not sure I got it at the beginning of my career, so I think it's maybe hard for young people to grasp, but that is the advice I would offer.

Photo credit: David Hume KennerlyThis interview was conducted by Mia Funk with the participation of collaborating universities and students. Associate Interviews Producers on this episode were Katie Foster and Henie Zhang. The Creative Process & One Planet Podcast is produced by Mia Funk. Associate Text Editor was Nadia Lam. Additional production support by Sophie Garnier.Mia Funk is an artist, interviewer and founder of The Creative Process & One Planet Podcast (Conversations about Climate Change & Environmental Solutions). Listen on Apple,Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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How can journalism make people care and bring about solutions? What role does storytelling play in shining a light on injustice and crises and creating a catalyst for change?

Nicholas D. Kristof is a two-time Pulitzer-winning journalist and Op-ed columnist for The New York Times, where he was previously bureau chief in Hong Kong, Beijing, and Tokyo. Kristof is a regular CNN contributor and has covered, among many other events and crises, the Tiananmen Square protests, the Darfur genocide, the Yemeni civil war, and the U.S. opioid crisis. He is the author of the memoir Chasing Hope, A Reporter's Life, and coauthor, with his wife, Sheryl WuDunn, of five previous books: Tightrope, A Path Appears, Half the Sky, Thunder from the East, and China Wakes.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

You've been to 170 countries, and in your book Chasing Hope, you've written on the value of witnessing the world's atrocities, neglected conflicts, human rights abuses, and how you then turn these into stories that will call on people to act. How do you find your way into a story?

NICHOLAS KRISTOF

So the backdrop of Chasing Hope came when I was trying to cover the Darfur genocide in the early 2000s. I was making these trips and reporting on the horrific massacres, and it just felt as if these columns were just disappearing without a ripple. At the same time in New York City, all of Manhattan was up in arms about these two hawks that had been pushed out of an apartment building where they had a nest because the building didn't like their bird droppings. And I thought, “how is it that I can't generate the same outrage people feel for these two homeless hawks for hundreds of thousands of people? What's wrong with my writing? Why can't I connect with people on these issues?” So that led me to the work of what makes us care. And one of those lessons is that it's an emotional process—an emotional connection not a rational one—you have to tell stories about individuals. I'm always going out to find not just an individual story, but the most compelling story—somebody that people can relate to.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

And I wonder what role growing up in a small town (Yamhill, Oregon) played in the kind of journalist you’ve become? You get to know almost everyone in the town, I imagine, and you can see behind their stories in a way and all sectors of society that we might not get in big cities where we have this tunnel vision and stick with our groups?

KRISTOF

Growing up in a tiny town very much affected my journalism and how I see the world, in the sense that it always felt to me that national media establishments neglect small towns like mine, people like those around me, and the issues that concern us. An example is addiction—we've got more than 100,000 people a year dying from overdoses, including many of my old friends, and I don't think that America has come to terms with that adequately. When we try to cover what is happening in other countries, we go to the capital, talk to officials, and typically talk to university educated men who speak English, but that's a pretty tiny slice. That has encouraged me to talk to other people to understand what is happening more broadly.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

And you talk about the personal emotional stories, and I wonder how do you protect yourself emotionally—how do you keep your empathy in check, skepticism, critical thinking or neutrality, in these emotionally charged situations when you might be meeting warlords or covering human trafficking and witnessing these terrors? You begin Chasing Hope going down in a small plane in the heart of the Congo Civil War. With so much going on, how do you remain clear minded in those situations and also, journalistically, how do you develop that courage and strength?

KRISTOF

In writing Chasing Hope, I self diagnosed myself with a mild case of PTSD. It's probably parallel to an emergency room physician who is surrounded by trauma victims, but you have to create some distance from that pain just to get through the day. Where my armor breaks down is in particular where children are involved or where somebody that I am close to, such as my interpreter, has been in jeopardy and I fear that I’ll put somebody at risk. Every now and then unexpectedly, I’ll interview somebody and find myself completely tearing up.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

And I'm just wondering about all the places that you've been. What are some of those things that still haunt you?

KRISTOF

June 4th, 1989 Tiananmen Square in China is certainly high on that list. I was the Beijing bureau chief of The New York Times and had covered the Tiananmen democracy movement. It had seemed so full of hope, but that terrible night, I heard that the troops were busting through student lines and headed toward Tiananmen. I rode my bike and got to Tiananmen Square a little bit before the troops did. And then they arrived and opened fire on the crowd that I was in. I was terrified. To watch a modern army turn weapons of war on unarmed protesters—that changes you. Frankly, at first, I was a little bit disdainful of some of the less educated protesters at Tiananmen, and I wrote periodically that although they say they're for democracy, they can't define the kind of democracy they're in favor of. That night, though, it was those uneducated workers and peasants who were driving their rickshaws out whenever there was a pause in the firing to pick up bodies of kids who'd been killed or injured, who blocked the troops. One bus driver saw troops coming in trucks, so he parked his bus across the road to keep the trucks away and turned off the engine. Then when the officer pointed his firearm at him and demanded he move the bus, he just hurled the keys into the high grass. People like that might not have been able to define democracy, but they were willing to risk their lives for it. And I think there's a lot we can learn from the courage and commitment of people like that whom I witnessed in June 1989.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

Yes, that coverage was so moving, and so were those other books that you've co-authored with your wife, Sheryl WuDunn, China Wakes, Thunder from the East, Half the Sky, among others. And you were the first married couple to jointly receive a Pulitzer for journalism. How do you work together to jointly tell a story?

KRISTOF

It's funny because people always ask that question, and there's a little bit of a hint of how do you guys write books together and stay married? We also have three kids, and the truth is that if you can raise kids together and stay married, a book is a piece of cake. It really is. And you know, you put a manuscript down at night. It stays down. A manuscript can't play you off each other. At the end of the day, if you screw up on a manuscript, it's only a manuscript. It's not like screwing up on a kid. More seriously, it helped to have Sheryl and me working on these things together.

China, after Tiananmen, was a somewhat dispiriting time. We were tailed a lot. We dealt with really tough ethical decisions, and it really helped to have somebody who was engaged in this business who understood the risks. We could talk through some of these questions about what our moral responsibilities were to our sources and to our readers.

When we wrote Half the Sky about empowering women around the world, if it had been just a woman writing that book, it would have been marginalized as just a woman's issue. And it would have been weird if it had been just a man writing it, but I think a man and a woman addressing gender inequity together underscores that this is an issue that affects all of us, whatever our sex. And that we all have to get to work to try to address it. So, it's been a wonderful partnership.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

You also describe your early posting as New York Times bureau chief in Hong Kong during a kind of golden age of print journalism where you had more time to explore, whereas now, with the attention economy and clickbait, so much has changed. What are your reflections on the future of journalism?

KRISTOF

Traditionally, newspapers were often monopolies or oligopolies, and so they were making money and perfectly fine being committed to covering important things that readers weren't terribly interested in. That business model has collapsed for local journalism around the country. We're losing an average of two and a half newspapers each week around the country, and we've lost more newspaper journalists than we have coal miners over the last decade. In terms of national,international coverage, The New York Times still has a good business model. The Washington Post has a business model in the sense that Jeff Bezos has a large checkbook. The Wall Street Journal is doing okay, but the news weeklies are collapsing, and television is struggling. There are still reporters covering the war in Ukraine and the war in Gaza, but you don't have many reporters covering what's probably the world's biggest humanitarian crisis right now—the famine in Sudan. It's just like how Yemen wasn't getting much coverage when it was the biggest crisis. I think that's fundamentally because it's expensive and dangerous to cover those kinds of international stories, and there's not much of an audience for it. Once, I did back-to-back columns about the Yemen humanitarian crisis and Brett Kavanaugh when he was nominated for the Supreme Court. The Kavanaugh piece—I could whip off in a few hours, while the Yemen piece resulted from an expensive, dangerous trip to Yemen. But the Kavanaugh piece got seven times as many page views, so you can understand why an executive producer wouldn't want to send a camera crew to Yemen when they can just put a Democrat and a Republican in a studio together and have them yell at each other.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

Your writing has inspired Bill and Melinda Gates to focus their philanthropy on global health. Robert DeVecchi, the former president of the International Rescue Committee, said your coverage of the genocide in Darfur saved hundreds of thousands of lives. Considering the changing face of journalism, how can we continue to be a catalyst for positive change?

KRISTOF

I hope that we come up with a solid business model for journalism. I'm actually planning a trip to Sudan right now and it will probably lose money for The Times, but they're willing to send me to cover pieces that maybe only my mother and wife will read. We need a better business model for journalism as a whole. I think that there may be ways for journalists to partner with aid groups and think tanks around the world to cover crises.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

Your parents were educators, and you've also created mentorship programs where you've taken young journalists on the road with you to help bring them along that pathway toward journalism. You've been an outspoken advocate for education reform. What are your reflections on education, and how can we improve our education models to prepare people not just for the jobs of the 21st but to be more engaged global citizens?

KRISTOF

If you look over the last 500 years or so, the best metric to predict where society will be in 30 or 50 years, the best metric is simply education today. One reason I think the U.S. is the world's largest and most successful economy today is that, beginning in the 19th century and through about 1970, the U.S. led the world in mass education. And what matters is not so much elite education. Britain had Eton, Oxford, and Cambridge, and it had better elite education, but it wasn't great at mass education. And the U.S. really was. We were the first country to have almost universal literacy, male and female. We were the first country to have widespread high school attendance and the first country to have significant college attendance. And then, beginning in about the 1970s, we lost that lead. And now, there are many countries that are way ahead of us. I think back to my old classmates who are now dead, and I think: What were adults thinking in the 1970s that they let them drop out? And yet, I think today: What are adults thinking in 2024 when they let one in seven American kids today drop out of high school and let so many emerge from the school system not literate, not numerate, completely unprepared for the 21st century?

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

Yes. And for somebody who's always gone out into the world, who's derived their knowledge from one-on-one to understanding what it is in the world, what are your reflections on how AI is changing the way we communicate with ourselves, our imagination, and journalism itself? How can we prepare everyone, especially young people, for these uncertain futures?

KRISTOF

There have been some alarming experiments that show AI arguments are better at persuading people than humans are at persuading people. I think that's partly because humans tend to make the arguments that we ourselves find most persuasive. For example, a liberal will make the arguments that will appeal to liberals, but the person you're probably trying to persuade is somebody in the center. We're just not good at putting ourselves in other people's shoes. That's something I try very hard to do in the column, but I often fall short. And with AI, I think people are going to become more vulnerable to being manipulated. I think we're at risk of being manipulated by our own cognitive biases and the tendency to reach out for information sources that will confirm our prejudices. Years ago, the theorist Nicholas Negroponte wrote that the internet was going to bring a product he called the Daily Me—basically information perfectly targeted to our own brains—and that's kind of what we've gotten now. A conservative will get conservative sources that show how awful Democrats are and will have information that buttresses that point of view, while liberals will get the liberal version of that. So, I think we have to try to understand those cognitive biases and understand the degree to which we are all vulnerable to being fooled by selection bias. I'd like to see high schools, in particular, have more information training and media literacy programs so that younger people can learn that there are some news sources that are a little better than others and that just because you see something on Facebook doesn't make it true.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

Exactly. There's checks and balances, so it is important to understand fake news, misinformation, and disinformation. You said your experience in China helped you have a certain respect for the mechanisms of capitalism, even though it doesn't work perfectly, and it hasn't worked perfectly in terms of how we are stewards of the planet. This you've seen from your travels around the world, these decisions that cause ecological degradation because we're not seeing further down the line to the future. I know that maintaining ecological balance is important for you. You have practical working knowledge since you were raised on a farm and to this day you and your family run a 25-acre farm in Yamhill, Oregon. What, in your view, is holding us back from moving forward on environmental issues?

KRISTOF

I think that the problem is a classic economic problem of tragedy of the commons—the fact that any one country is going to benefit if other countries reduce carbon emissions but is going to suffer when it itself does means there's always a tendency to want other countries to lead the way. Since the industrial revolution began, the US point of view is that we can't get anywhere unless India and China reduce carbon emissions, while India and China say if you look over the last one hundred years, the US is the one who put out all the carbon, and we're just finally getting a little bit richer and you want to cut us off at the knees.

There are arguments to be made on both sides, but the fundamental impediment is that 10 years ago, it just seemed really hard to see how we were going to get out of climate change and disastrous consequences, but right now, if you squint a little bit, you can maybe see a path through this period where we reduce carbon emissions enough to figure out how to navigate our way to a future in which things work and we pay a price, but one that is manageable. Green energy is becoming much cheaper because of a revolution in battery technology, and now there are possibilities for a field-like energy generated by waves or fusion nuclear power to remove carbon from the air with direct air capture. We're not sure that these will work, but they may, and they would really be revolutionary. China is an interesting example of a country that has made remarkable progress on electrification and battery technology. It is still pushing out a ton of carbon, but it has done this for practical reasons—it understands that those are key technologies for the future and whoever figures out how to get electric vehicles done right, whoever figures out how to get battery technology right, the world is going to benefit from their progress in battery technology, just as the world has benefited by having solar panels made in China go up all over the world.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

You know, we're so glad that Chasing Hope allows us to understand some of these backstories that make or don't make the cut when you're writing an article, but how do you narrow that down when there's so many fascinating details to what would be the most poignant to bring across the essence of the story?

KRISTOF

That's the perpetual challenge of storytelling. It's what Homer was wrestling with 800 years ago and what we wrestle with today. But I think one of the lessons of storytelling is that you pick the elements that will move a reader. In my case, I'm trying to get people to care about a crisis in ways that may bring solutions to it. And that's also how I deal with the terror and the fear to find a sense of purpose in what I do. It's incredibly heartbreaking to see some of the things and hear some of the stories, but at the end of the day, it feels like–inconsistently here and there–you can shine a light on problems, and by shining that light, you actually make a difference.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

And as you think about the future, those teachers who have been important to you, and the importance of storytelling, what would you like young people to know, preserve, and remember?

KRISTOF

I think a lot of young people today are focused on what might be called résumé qualities. I was proud to be the youngest foreign correspondent at the Times and then youngest national correspondent, winning a Pulitzer, these kinds of things, but overtime, I came to see more importance and reward in finding a purpose, finding meaning, paying it forward, and giving back—the eulogy qualities, the kind of things people say when they remember you, not the résumé qualities. It's the importance of finding friends, emphasizing family, and doing things that give you that sense of fulfillment and meaning, keep you going, and give you a cause larger than yourself to hold on to. I, too, am not sure I got it at the beginning of my career, so I think it's maybe hard for young people to grasp, but that is the advice I would offer.

Photo credit: David Hume KennerlyThis interview was conducted by Mia Funk with the participation of collaborating universities and students. Associate Interviews Producers on this episode were Katie Foster and Henie Zhang. The Creative Process & One Planet Podcast is produced by Mia Funk. Associate Text Editor was Nadia Lam. Additional production support by Sophie Garnier.Mia Funk is an artist, interviewer and founder of The Creative Process & One Planet Podcast (Conversations about Climate Change & Environmental Solutions). Listen on Apple,Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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Have we entered what Earth scientists call a “termination event,” and what can we do to avoid the worst outcomes? How can a spiritual connection to nature guide us toward better environmental stewardship? What can ancient wisdom teach us about living harmoniously with the Earth? How have wetlands become both crucial carbon sinks and colossal methane emitters in a warming world?

Euan Nisbet is an Emeritus Professor of Earth Sciences at the Royal Holloway University of London. Specializing in methane and its impact on climate change, his research spans Arctic and Tropical Atmospheric Methane budgets. Nisbet led the MOYA project, focusing on global methane emissions using aircraft and ground-based field campaigns in Africa and South America. Born in Germany and raised in Africa, his field work has taken him around the world. He is the author of The Young Earth and Leaving Eden: To Protect and Manage the Earth.

Audio Block Double-click here to upload or link to a .mp3. Learn more I am a Christian and I have strong Muslim and Jewish friends as well as great respect for Hindu beliefs. I grew up in Southern Africa and I am well aware of the depth of some Indigenous beliefs. I think that having belief systems does give you a very different perspective sometimes. Now, in Christianity, the concept of the shepherd, human beings are here and this is our garden, our garden of Eden, but we have a responsibility. And if we choose to kick ourselves out of the garden, there are consequences. And that's precisely what we are doing. The garden is there, it's lovely, and we can manage it, and it's our job to manage it. We can manage it properly. We can respect it. It's for all creation, and it's very explicit that it involves all Creation. And that's a very fundamental biblical law that you have to respect all Creation. And if you don't do that, then the consequences—you’re basically throwing yourself out of the Garden of Eden.

Papyrus swamp, Kajjansi, Uganda (Copy) (Copy) Equatorial swamps are major methane emitters

Canadian wetland, near Fraserdale, Ontario (Copy) (Copy) Boreal wetlands like this, often made or enhanced by beaver dams, are very extensive and emit much methane in summer

The methane kill zone, in the moist tropical mid-troposphere, where the main sink, OH, destroys methane. (Copy) (Copy) Photo Credit: Euan Nisbet Associate Interview Producer and Associate Text Editor for this episode was Sophie Garnier. One Planet Podcast is produced by Mia Funk. Additional production support by Katie Foster.Mia Funk is an artist, interviewer and founder of The Creative Process & One Planet Podcast (Conversations about Climate Change & Environmental Solutions). Listen on Apple,Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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How do the works of Emily Dickinson and Charles Darwin continue to influence our understanding of nature, ecological interdependence, and the human experience? How does understanding history help us address current social and environmental issues. How can dialogues between the arts and sciences foster holistic, sustainable solutions to global crises?

Renée Bergland is a literary critic, historian of science, and educator. As a storyteller, Bergland connects the lives of historical figures to the problems of the present day. As an educator, she emphasizes the interdisciplinary connections between the sciences and humanities. A longtime professor at Simmons University, where she is the Program director of Literature and writing, Bergland has also researched and taught at institutions such as Dartmouth College, Harvard University, and MIT. Bergland’s past published titles include Maria Mitchell and the Sexing of Science: An Astronomer Among the American Romantics and The National Uncanny: Indian Ghosts and American Subjects. Her most recent book, Natural Magic: Emily Dickinson, Charles Darwin, and the Dawn of Modern Science, was published in April of 2024. It explores Dickinson and Darwin’s shared enchanted view of the natural world in a time when poetry and natural philosophy, once freely intertwined, began to grow apart.

Charles Darwin published On the Origin of Species in December 1859. In the years that followed, he would often be at the center of public debate, subjected to bitter denunciations and passionate advocacy. At times, his allies' misguided defenses of his ideas would be as excruciating as the condemnations. Darwin would try again and again to explain that the adaptation and change at the heart of natural selection could offer consolation and inspire hope. Darwin had hoped his ideas would be important in scientific circles, but he had never dreamed that they would have such a widespread impact. Indeed, he was startled by his sudden scientific fame. As it turned out, Few aspects of life or death remain untouched by Darwin's thought. His ideas were quickly woven into the fabric of the modern world. Across the Atlantic, Emily Dickinson's response to Darwin helped her to write the poetry that speaks to us today. Emily Dickinson loved a wild experiment just as much as Darwin, who was one generation ahead of her. Darwin's remarkable ideas about the natural world would influence her thought profoundly. She did not have the same impact on Darwin as he had on her. In fact, since she published almost nothing during her lifetime, her circle of influence was very small until after her death. But being in the next generation also conferred some benefits. Able to read Darwin, consider his ideas at leisure, and record her responses for posterity, Dickinson usually got the last word. In this account, I have taken the liberty of giving her the first word, too. For me, this book started with the puzzling realization that many of Dickinson's poems seemed profoundly Darwinian. Although she never mentioned Darwin by name in her poems. She rarely mentioned anyone by name in her poetry, so this absence did not rule him out of her important influences. She did name Darwin in two letters, which confirmed that she knew about his work. Still, there was not much to go on. She returned again and again to the topics that fascinated Darwin, but was that enough to demonstrate that she was responding to his thoughts? Did Dickinson write about Darwinian ideas simply because she was his contemporary? Did her writing seem to apply to Darwin merely because she was a great poet whose writings were almost universally applicable? Both explanations are valid as far as they go, but neither goes far enough. There is a stronger connection between Dickinson and Darwin than the proximity of history. Or the universality of literature. They both understood natural science and the natural world in ways that seem strange and somewhat surprising in the 21st century. Their 19th century attitudes to nature and the study of it are so different from ours that when we trace their stories, a vanished world begins to emerge. The more I consider these figures together, the more I feel their world and my world. come alive. Darwin and Dickinson illuminate each other. By reading them together, we can start to understand the interconnected relationships that animated 19th century poetry and science.

– Natural Magic: Emily Dickinson, Charles Darwin, and the Dawn of Modern Scienceby Renée Bergland, Preface, pp. xiv–xvi.THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

Many of us only think of Darwin’s work as being about survival of the fittest, and nature competing for limited resources, but you open this view up. You write about how Dickinson and Darwin refused to accept the separation of art and science. As you go through their writings, they're both talking about the awesome possibilities of the new sciences and at the same time striving to preserve the magic of nature. And today more than ever, we too need to reclaim these two discipline’s connections, and our shared sense of ecological wonder, especially as we're on the crest of the Anthropocene.

RENÉE BERGLAND

Yes, absolutely. Probably many geologists and stratigraphers would say that even Darwin and Dickinson both lived during the Anthropocene, that they lived during a time when human activity had really started to change the planet. But I don't know that they lived during the self-conscious Anthropocene as we do now, where we're suddenly aware of it and we're like, “Oh, no, what have we done?” But they were fascinated, both of them, by human beings in the whole biosphere.

The reason that people responded to Darwin as if he were theologically radical was because his vision of the great tree of life was not a ladder. It was not hierarchical at all. His metaphor of the tree has lots of intertwined branches and roots. There's not a single apex to a tree, and the way that Darwin described humans, they were not the top of the whole chain, the whole ladder. That was an insight that was upsetting to many people. It seemed humiliating for humans not to be the very best living creature. And that was one of the reasons that many people reacted negatively to Darwin. But for Dickinson, that idea was just liberating and exciting and fascinating, such that in many of her poems about the natural world, she blurs the human and the animal and the plant. One of the poems of Dickinson's that I think explains Darwin the best starts out, “There is a flower that bees prefer / and butterflies desire.” She's talking about the clover, and in that poem she describes the clover and the grass as kinsmen. They're related to each other, but they're contending, she says, for sod and sun. They are competing to see who can get the most soil, the most nutrients, but she calls them “sweet litigants for life.” And that interpretation of Darwinism, where they're sweet and they're struggling, but they're both actually litigants for life, they're both arguing for the biosphere and advocates—that takes us back to the first lines of the poem. “There's a flower that bees prefer / and butterflies desire.” The way that the clover and the grass compete is by trying to see who can be more beautiful, who can be more brightly colored, who can smell better, who can lure more pollinators, more insects and birds and collaborate better with them, and have a better chance of surviving. That is certainly a version of survival of the fittest, but it's not a dog eat dog violent version. It's a version where the way you get a generational advantage, and perhaps have more little clovers following in your footsteps, is by collaborating better, by making yourself more beautiful, more alluring, and more inviting, inviting pollinators to work with you. That's straight from Darwin. Darwin's very clear in On the Origin of Species that when he talks about the struggle for life, he's primarily talking about co-adaptation and collaboration between species that can learn to work together. He's the one who actually, as he explains the struggle for life, says it's nothing like two dogs fighting over a bone. That's not what it is. But unfortunately, a lot of that co-adaptation language got lost in the popular imagination. And that's one of the reasons that turning to Dickinson can help us understand—because she so beautifully depicts a Darwinian world where, yes, there's death, but there's more than anything, there's life.

This interview was conducted by Mia Funk with the participation of collaborating universities and students. Associate Interview Producer and Associate Text Editor for this episode was Sofia Reecer. One Planet Podcast is produced by Mia Funk. Additional production support by Katie Foster.Mia Funk is an artist, interviewer and founder of The Creative Process & One Planet Podcast (Conversations about Climate Change & Environmental Solutions). Listen on Apple,Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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What can we learn from Germany's postwar transformation to help us address today's environmental and humanitarian crises? With the rise of populism, authoritarianism, and digital propaganda, how can history provide insights into the challenges of modern democracy?

Frank Trentmann is a Professor of History at Birkbeck, University of London, and at the University of Helsinki. He is a prize-winning historian, having received awards such as the Whitfield Prize, Austrian Wissenschaftsbuch/Science Book Prize, Humboldt Prize for Research, and the 2023 Bochum Historians' Award. He has also been named a Moore Scholar at Caltech. He is the author of Empire of Things and Free Trade Nation. His latest book is Out of the Darkness: The Germans 1942 to 2022, which explores Germany's transformation after the Second World War.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

Up until now, you've been mostly a professor of global consumer culture, but you've notably written Empire of Things: How We Became a World of Consumers, from the Fifteenth Century to the Twenty-First. More recently, you've taken what some might think of as a swerve to examine the complexities of the moral remaking of Germany and how its people grappled with questions of guilt and identity in Out of the Darkness: The Germans, 1942-2022. How did Out of the Darkness grow out of some of those ideas you'd reflected on in previous books? It's a very interesting span of history you take in, focusing on what you call the “awakening of conscience” in Germany. Other historians might choose 1945 as the period when it began to emerge out of darkness, but you chose 1942.

FRANK TRENTMANN

The bridge between Out of the Darkness and my previous work, which looked at the transformation of consumer culture in the world, is morality. One thing that became clear in writing Empire of Things was that there's virtually no time or place in history where consumption isn't heavily moralized. Our lifestyle is treated as a mirror of our virtue and sins. And in the course of modern history, there's been a remarkable moral shift in the way that consumption used to be seen as something that led you astray or undermined authority, status, gender roles, and wasted money, to a source of growth, a source of self, fashioning the way we create our own identity. In the last few years, the environmental crisis has led to new questions about whether consumption is good or bad. And in 2015, during the refugee crisis when Germany took in almost a million refugees, morality became a very powerful way in which Germans talked about themselves as humanitarian world champions, as one politician called it. I realized that there's many other topics from family, work, to saving the environment, and of course, with regard to the German responsibility for the Holocaust and the war of extermination where German public discourse is heavily moralistic, so I became interested in charting that historical process.

And why did I start in the middle of the Second World War? The reason for that is that 1945 in Europe isn't really in a proper sense a sharp break. The German people enter peace with a number of preoccupations, values, fears, assumptions which have been created in the course of the Second World War. And there's a big moral turmoil that is spreading, beginning in the winter of 1942, 1943, the time period we now call the Holocaust. A growing number of Germans started asking themselves troubling questions about their own possible responsibility for the plight that they were now being exposed to. So I choose this as an opening partly because it allows the reader to get into the heads of Germans at the time who don't know yet that the war is lost.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

It's a powerful entry point that helps us understand. Of course from there you bring us all the way up to 2022. And when you talk about family in your book, it's kind of an expansive sense of family, like being part of this greater Mother Earth or the acts of compassion towards refugees, but I was surprised to read, as you cite, that over 50 percent of the population in Germany have been helping refugees in a quite hands-on in a way that I don't think you would see in other countries. So whatever the legacy of guilt or shame, which is so complex, the post-war transformation has been remarkable in that way. And yet, it's complicated. Do you feel Germany has come to terms with its past and moved on? We see now the rise of right-wing groups throughout Europe, the entry of the far-right Alternative for Germany into Parliament in 2017, and, of course, more recently, the wake of unrest in England and Northern Ireland with anti-immigration protests. So, this is not an old narrative. Its roots are buried deep, but they sprout up shoots every so often.

TRENTMANN

Yes, it's not a finished story. You have, in addition to the truly impressive number who were welcoming refugees or helping them in active ways, a sizable minority that does not want to have refugees that are openly skeptical or even hostile, sometimes violently, towards migrants or asylum seekers. You have a rise of populism that is disproportionately high in East Germany, the former communist GDR. Germany was divided and then reunified, so it continues to have serious regional divides up to the present. The first difference the partition of Germany left behind is memory culture. The West German state in 1949 saw itself constitutionally as the rightful successor of the German empire before it, and that included taking on responsibility for debts accumulated, so the Federal Republic introduced major reparations for Jewish victims of the Holocaust. East Germany was radically different. In their minds, they were a radically new state with no obligations towards all the evil that Nazi Germany had committed in the past, so East Germany paid no reparations or compensation to Jews. So when 1990 happened, and the two parts reunified. We have a lack of coherence in collective memory, which remains present to this day. I think there was a certain naivety in many German circles, which assumed that the moment you have an official memory culture, in which the responsibility for the Holocaust is a central source of what it means to be German, problems such as racism will just go away. So many commentators and politicians were deeply confused last autumn after the Hamas attacks on Israel on the 7th of October, when suddenly, you had more or less complete silence in the German population, no show of empathy, no mass demonstrations, a steep rise of anti-semitic attacks. And I think that commemoration, public memory, and public history are all very good and important but do not automatically translate into everyday life and people's attitudes towards German Jews in their midst or towards foreigners.And I think that was the mistake—the belief that once you reform collective memory and draw attention and remember the terrible things previous German generations had done, in the present, people living in Germany would all become wonderfully tolerant people. It's not that simple.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

Indeed, you can, with the benefit of hindsight, reform collective memory. But when these moral questions arise in real time and current events are just happening too quickly, we don't always see it. I was wondering if you could talk to us a bit more about Neo-Nazism in Germany and the significance of this strand of Neo-Naziism, given Germany's legacy and history. Additionally, your book discusses how Germany became a major supporter of Israel. Do you think that Germany's past has affected its present-day stance on Israel's actions in Gaza? And do you believe that Germany's history has impacted how Germany has treated people protesting Israel's actions? Have any of these more recent events caused you to reconsider or reflect on any of the conclusions you came to in Out of the Darkness?

TRENTMANN

The populist party Alternative for Germany includes some spokespeople and members who have been, by the courts, defined as having fascist leanings. That doesn't mean all populists are Nazis, but Neo-Nazis exist, and they need to be taken seriously. Where do they come from? For a long time, historians and politicians worked with this assumption that since West Germany confronted the past, people woke up and right-wing Neo-Nazi leanings were becoming extinguished, so if you look at older accounts regarding extremists that endanger the Federal Republic, they tended to be written about the left, such as the Baader Meinhof group or the Red Army Faction. But since the resurgence of Neo-Nazi and right-wing attacks on foreigners, asylum seekers, shootings, murder, and so forth, people have revisited the 1970s and 1980s and come to recognize that current fascist groups didn’t come out of nowhere. There were army sort of paramilitary groups in the 1970s and 1980s; a neo-Nazi party, which was founded in the late 60s, and did fairly well in some local elections; Neo-Nazi activists have existed for some time; and a lot of people who have now moved to the populist groups, used to vote for the Christian Democrats which had right-wing values and attitudes. On Israel and Germany, what we've seen is a very robust and persistent attitude by the German government which is firmly standing side by side with Israel, with policies very careful not to issue any criticism of Israeli military strategies. And on the other hand, a majority of the population is either openly critical of the measures and military actions used or thinks Germany should just turn its back on the Middle East and live without concerning themselves too much with international affairs, so Germany is really divided on the question of what to do in the conflict in the Middle East.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

Yes. And going back to your previous book Empire of Things, you cover how we became a world of consumers and the rise of our material world, examining the global challenges and our relentless pursuit of more from waste and debt to stress and inequality. It just leads me to ask what you feel about the real price of our consumer culture habits, which actually I feel helps fuel modern slavery.

TRENTMANN

Consumption is a tricky business. We've moved ourselves into a situation where on the one hand, we now recognize that possessions are an important source of identity. Most of us believe people should have the right to choose the kind of lifestyle they want to have; on the other hand, we have the environmental costs of that lifestyle, which is causing havoc with our planet and, ultimately, with our lives. And so we're caught in a social-political acceptance of the freedom to choose and a growing awareness that the world is heading towards environmental disaster and taking us down with it. We haven't found a way of resolving that ambivalence. Climate activists, economists, and so forth have come up with solutions from zero growth to simple living, but as a historian who's followed the rise of and transformation of consumption over 600 years, I can assure you that it's too simple to try and demonize consumption and hope that by just drawing attention to environmental problems, people will somehow reform themselves. I think we have to take seriously that in the course of modernity, consumption has become deeply embedded culturally, socially, politically in our lives.Just waving an alarmist poster will not shock us out of the kind of lifestyle that has become normal for us. People tend to equate consumption with individual choice and motivation or desire. But from an environmental point of view, a huge amount of our hyper-consumption lifestyle is not organized or conducted through individual choice. They're social habits. These days, people have a shower as a matter of habit. Some people have two or three showers a day. And then they get to their leisure activities or their work with a car if they have one. They're used to driving, and that's a habit. So lots of things that cause damage are habitual forms of consumption. Those are not driven by individual choice but because our cities have been planned in a particular way—state and other authorities have built highways, car manufacturers get certain subsidies. There's an infrastructure of gas stations and electric charging points. And so if you want to tackle environmental consequences, perhaps a more effective way would be to intervene, try to disrupt those habits and plan cities and mobility in different ways that are environmentally friendlier.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

Indeed, that illusion of choice is so interesting. Of course, you point to the fact that we, as individuals, do not always make the best choices. I mean, we do sometimes need to be guided or sometimes regarded in ways that are not always good for the welfare of us individually or for the planet. And when we think about AI, which is becoming a new mass surveillance system, it's a new Great Game for powerful multinationals to embed their products and systems and influence our choices. So it's something we have to reflect on a lot. Even if we feel like we have that illusion of choice, who's really making the choices?

TRENTMANN

Yes. When I finished the book in 2016, artificial intelligence already existed, but wasn't much of a topic. The jury is still out on how AI will play out. Some people pin their hope on AI to give straggling Western economies a huge productivity boost they would urgently need. And that point leads back very well to what we talked about earlier with populism. One thing we've seen, and Germany is a good test case for that, is how democratic habits and understandings we've built up from a different era do not necessarily work for generations that are more reliant on social media where there could be outside manipulation, whether by autocracies or AI. What you really need among education reformers is a new democratic skill set and communication tools that teach young students and citizens how to evaluate information, distinguish between fake news and what's not fake news, to be on their guard, and develop critical media and consumption skills that are fit for our much more digital world. There's a lot that needs to be done. In Germany, you have debates and worries about interference with elections or the posting of fake news, and Germany is a country where lots of people don't use digital communication at all. So you have a dual shock on the one hand, being well behind with digital culture and digital communication. On the other hand, a rapidly evolving technological scene generates more fake news and more potential for surveillance.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

Yes, that’s interesting, and it makes me think again about East and West Germany. And seeing your involvement with museums, I wonder, what are your reflections on the importance of the arts and the humanities, and how do you feel museums can stay relevant and do a better job of expanding access while meeting community needs? And finally, as you think about the future and make sense of history in order to create a better tomorrow, what would you like young people to know, preserve, and remember?

TRENTMANN

Museums have seen funds being cut, so they had to be innovative, not just in terms of finding sponsorship money, but in how to make their collections more attractive to more people. Going back to New Labor in Britain, museums and other cultural institutions were tasked to become more socially engaged and open to groups normally underrepresented, so they've done, I would say, a pretty good job, given the constraints of Brexit, where before Brexit, British museums would often work together with other museums in the EU, but now, that’s a serious challenge because of visa rules and objects needing to be specially arranged. So even though we've seen a certain regionalism or growing provincialism, and that's very sad. I think museums continue to be very important. And well, I would like young people to resist the stories they hear from school teachers or career advisors, or sometimes even from their own parents, especially if they're being urged to move into particular subjects in engineering or the natural sciences. I think history is tremendously important. All the contemporary topics we’ve talked about—environmental crisis, Gaza, the war in Ukraine—all of those don't make sense if you don't have a sense of history. History and the humanities in the United Kingdom, as in the United States, have come under huge pressure. We've seen falling student numbers, and that's a real shame because history continues to be a source of intellectual inspiration and curiosity that not only makes us wiser and more reflective but also creates the dynamism and creativity we need to confront our present and future challenges. I hope that among the young generations, there will be people inspired by history, people that have the ambition to research and write about the past.

Photo credit: Jon WilsonThis interview was conducted by Mia Funk and Eva Sanborn with the participation of collaborating universities and students. Associate Interviews Producers on this episode were Sophie Garnier and Eva Sanborn. One Planet Podcast & The Creative Process is produced by Mia Funk. Associate Text Editor was Nadia Lam. Additional production support by Katie Foster.Mia Funk is an artist, interviewer and founder of The Creative Process & One Planet Podcast (Conversations about Climate Change & Environmental Solutions). Listen on Apple,Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

View Details

What can we learn from Germany's postwar transformation to help us address today's environmental and humanitarian crises? With the rise of populism, authoritarianism, and digital propaganda, how can history provide insights into the challenges of modern democracy?

Frank Trentmann is a Professor of History at Birkbeck, University of London, and at the University of Helsinki. He is a prize-winning historian, having received awards such as the Whitfield Prize, Austrian Wissenschaftsbuch/Science Book Prize, Humboldt Prize for Research, and the 2023 Bochum Historians' Award. He has also been named a Moore Scholar at Caltech. He is the author of Empire of Things and Free Trade Nation. His latest book is Out of the Darkness: The Germans 1942 to 2022, which explores Germany's transformation after the Second World War.

Audio Block Double-click here to upload or link to a .mp3. Learn more THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

Up until now, you've been mostly a professor of global consumer culture, but you've notably written Empire of Things: How We Became a World of Consumers, from the Fifteenth Century to the Twenty-First. More recently, you've taken what some might think of as a swerve to examine the complexities of the moral remaking of Germany and how its people grappled with questions of guilt and identity in Out of the Darkness: The Germans, 1942-2022. How did Out of the Darkness grow out of some of those ideas you'd reflected on in previous books? It's a very interesting span of history you take in, focusing on what you call the “awakening of conscience” in Germany. Other historians might choose 1945 as the period when it began to emerge out of darkness, but you chose 1942.

FRANK TRENTMANN

The bridge between Out of the Darkness and my previous work, which looked at the transformation of consumer culture in the world, is morality. One thing that became clear in writing Empire of Things was that there's virtually no time or place in history where consumption isn't heavily moralized. Our lifestyle is treated as a mirror of our virtue and sins. And in the course of modern history, there's been a remarkable moral shift in the way that consumption used to be seen as something that led you astray or undermined authority, status, gender roles, and wasted money, to a source of growth, a source of self, fashioning the way we create our own identity. In the last few years, the environmental crisis has led to new questions about whether consumption is good or bad. And in 2015, during the refugee crisis when Germany took in almost a million refugees, morality became a very powerful way in which Germans talked about themselves as humanitarian world champions, as one politician called it. I realized that there's many other topics from family, work, to saving the environment, and of course, with regard to the German responsibility for the Holocaust and the war of extermination where German public discourse is heavily moralistic, so I became interested in charting that historical process.

And why did I start in the middle of the Second World War? The reason for that is that 1945 in Europe isn't really in a proper sense a sharp break. The German people enter peace with a number of preoccupations, values, fears, assumptions which have been created in the course of the Second World War. And there's a big moral turmoil that is spreading, beginning in the winter of 1942, 1943, the time period we now call the Holocaust. A growing number of Germans started asking themselves troubling questions about their own possible responsibility for the plight that they were now being exposed to. So I choose this as an opening partly because it allows the reader to get into the heads of Germans at the time who don't know yet that the war is lost.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

It's a powerful entry point that helps us understand. Of course from there you bring us all the way up to 2022. And when you talk about family in your book, it's kind of an expansive sense of family, like being part of this greater Mother Earth or the acts of compassion towards refugees, but I was surprised to read, as you cite, that over 50 percent of the population in Germany have been helping refugees in a quite hands-on in a way that I don't think you would see in other countries. So whatever the legacy of guilt or shame, which is so complex, the post-war transformation has been remarkable in that way. And yet, it's complicated. Do you feel Germany has come to terms with its past and moved on? We see now the rise of right-wing groups throughout Europe, the entry of the far-right Alternative for Germany into Parliament in 2017, and, of course, more recently, the wake of unrest in England and Northern Ireland with anti-immigration protests. So, this is not an old narrative. Its roots are buried deep, but they sprout up shoots every so often.

TRENTMANN

Yes, it's not a finished story. You have, in addition to the truly impressive number who were welcoming refugees or helping them in active ways, a sizable minority that does not want to have refugees that are openly skeptical or even hostile, sometimes violently, towards migrants or asylum seekers. You have a rise of populism that is disproportionately high in East Germany, the former communist GDR. Germany was divided and then reunified, so it continues to have serious regional divides up to the present. The first difference the partition of Germany left behind is memory culture. The West German state in 1949 saw itself constitutionally as the rightful successor of the German empire before it, and that included taking on responsibility for debts accumulated, so the Federal Republic introduced major reparations for Jewish victims of the Holocaust. East Germany was radically different. In their minds, they were a radically new state with no obligations towards all the evil that Nazi Germany had committed in the past, so East Germany paid no reparations or compensation to Jews. So when 1990 happened, and the two parts reunified. We have a lack of coherence in collective memory, which remains present to this day. I think there was a certain naivety in many German circles, which assumed that the moment you have an official memory culture, in which the responsibility for the Holocaust is a central source of what it means to be German, problems such as racism will just go away. So many commentators and politicians were deeply confused last autumn after the Hamas attacks on Israel on the 7th of October, when suddenly, you had more or less complete silence in the German population, no show of empathy, no mass demonstrations, a steep rise of anti-semitic attacks. And I think that commemoration, public memory, and public history are all very good and important but do not automatically translate into everyday life and people's attitudes towards German Jews in their midst or towards foreigners.And I think that was the mistake—the belief that once you reform collective memory and draw attention and remember the terrible things previous German generations had done, in the present, people living in Germany would all become wonderfully tolerant people. It's not that simple.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

Indeed, you can, with the benefit of hindsight, reform collective memory. But when these moral questions arise in real time and current events are just happening too quickly, we don't always see it. I was wondering if you could talk to us a bit more about Neo-Nazism in Germany and the significance of this strand of Neo-Naziism, given Germany's legacy and history. Additionally, your book discusses how Germany became a major supporter of Israel. Do you think that Germany's past has affected its present-day stance on Israel's actions in Gaza? And do you believe that Germany's history has impacted how Germany has treated people protesting Israel's actions? Have any of these more recent events caused you to reconsider or reflect on any of the conclusions you came to in Out of the Darkness?

TRENTMANN

The populist party Alternative for Germany includes some spokespeople and members who have been, by the courts, defined as having fascist leanings. That doesn't mean all populists are Nazis, but Neo-Nazis exist, and they need to be taken seriously. Where do they come from? For a long time, historians and politicians worked with this assumption that since West Germany confronted the past, people woke up and right-wing Neo-Nazi leanings were becoming extinguished, so if you look at older accounts regarding extremists that endanger the Federal Republic, they tended to be written about the left, such as the Baader Meinhof group or the Red Army Faction. But since the resurgence of Neo-Nazi and right-wing attacks on foreigners, asylum seekers, shootings, murder, and so forth, people have revisited the 1970s and 1980s and come to recognize that current fascist groups didn’t come out of nowhere. There were army sort of paramilitary groups in the 1970s and 1980s; a neo-Nazi party, which was founded in the late 60s, and did fairly well in some local elections; Neo-Nazi activists have existed for some time; and a lot of people who have now moved to the populist groups, used to vote for the Christian Democrats which had right-wing values and attitudes. On Israel and Germany, what we've seen is a very robust and persistent attitude by the German government which is firmly standing side by side with Israel, with policies very careful not to issue any criticism of Israeli military strategies. And on the other hand, a majority of the population is either openly critical of the measures and military actions used or thinks Germany should just turn its back on the Middle East and live without concerning themselves too much with international affairs, so Germany is really divided on the question of what to do in the conflict in the Middle East.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

Yes. And going back to your previous book Empire of Things, you cover how we became a world of consumers and the rise of our material world, examining the global challenges and our relentless pursuit of more from waste and debt to stress and inequality. It just leads me to ask what you feel about the real price of our consumer culture habits, which actually I feel helps fuel modern slavery.

TRENTMANN

Consumption is a tricky business. We've moved ourselves into a situation where on the one hand, we now recognize that possessions are an important source of identity. Most of us believe people should have the right to choose the kind of lifestyle they want to have; on the other hand, we have the environmental costs of that lifestyle, which is causing havoc with our planet and, ultimately, with our lives. And so we're caught in a social-political acceptance of the freedom to choose and a growing awareness that the world is heading towards environmental disaster and taking us down with it. We haven't found a way of resolving that ambivalence. Climate activists, economists, and so forth have come up with solutions from zero growth to simple living, but as a historian who's followed the rise of and transformation of consumption over 600 years, I can assure you that it's too simple to try and demonize consumption and hope that by just drawing attention to environmental problems, people will somehow reform themselves. I think we have to take seriously that in the course of modernity, consumption has become deeply embedded culturally, socially, politically in our lives.Just waving an alarmist poster will not shock us out of the kind of lifestyle that has become normal for us. People tend to equate consumption with individual choice and motivation or desire. But from an environmental point of view, a huge amount of our hyper-consumption lifestyle is not organized or conducted through individual choice. They're social habits. These days, people have a shower as a matter of habit. Some people have two or three showers a day. And then they get to their leisure activities or their work with a car if they have one. They're used to driving, and that's a habit. So lots of things that cause damage are habitual forms of consumption. Those are not driven by individual choice but because our cities have been planned in a particular way—state and other authorities have built highways, car manufacturers get certain subsidies. There's an infrastructure of gas stations and electric charging points. And so if you want to tackle environmental consequences, perhaps a more effective way would be to intervene, try to disrupt those habits and plan cities and mobility in different ways that are environmentally friendlier.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

Indeed, that illusion of choice is so interesting. Of course, you point to the fact that we, as individuals, do not always make the best choices. I mean, we do sometimes need to be guided or sometimes regarded in ways that are not always good for the welfare of us individually or for the planet. And when we think about AI, which is becoming a new mass surveillance system, it's a new Great Game for powerful multinationals to embed their products and systems and influence our choices. So it's something we have to reflect on a lot. Even if we feel like we have that illusion of choice, who's really making the choices?

TRENTMANN

Yes. When I finished the book in 2016, artificial intelligence already existed, but wasn't much of a topic. The jury is still out on how AI will play out. Some people pin their hope on AI to give straggling Western economies a huge productivity boost they would urgently need. And that point leads back very well to what we talked about earlier with populism. One thing we've seen, and Germany is a good test case for that, is how democratic habits and understandings we've built up from a different era do not necessarily work for generations that are more reliant on social media where there could be outside manipulation, whether by autocracies or AI. What you really need among education reformers is a new democratic skill set and communication tools that teach young students and citizens how to evaluate information, distinguish between fake news and what's not fake news, to be on their guard, and develop critical media and consumption skills that are fit for our much more digital world. There's a lot that needs to be done. In Germany, you have debates and worries about interference with elections or the posting of fake news, and Germany is a country where lots of people don't use digital communication at all. So you have a dual shock on the one hand, being well behind with digital culture and digital communication. On the other hand, a rapidly evolving technological scene generates more fake news and more potential for surveillance.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

Yes, that’s interesting, and it makes me think again about East and West Germany. And seeing your involvement with museums, I wonder, what are your reflections on the importance of the arts and the humanities, and how do you feel museums can stay relevant and do a better job of expanding access while meeting community needs? And finally, as you think about the future and make sense of history in order to create a better tomorrow, what would you like young people to know, preserve, and remember?

TRENTMANN

Museums have seen funds being cut, so they had to be innovative, not just in terms of finding sponsorship money, but in how to make their collections more attractive to more people. Going back to New Labor in Britain, museums and other cultural institutions were tasked to become more socially engaged and open to groups normally underrepresented, so they've done, I would say, a pretty good job, given the constraints of Brexit, where before Brexit, British museums would often work together with other museums in the EU, but now, that’s a serious challenge because of visa rules and objects needing to be specially arranged. So even though we've seen a certain regionalism or growing provincialism, and that's very sad. I think museums continue to be very important. And well, I would like young people to resist the stories they hear from school teachers or career advisors, or sometimes even from their own parents, especially if they're being urged to move into particular subjects in engineering or the natural sciences. I think history is tremendously important. All the contemporary topics we’ve talked about—environmental crisis, Gaza, the war in Ukraine—all of those don't make sense if you don't have a sense of history. History and the humanities in the United Kingdom, as in the United States, have come under huge pressure. We've seen falling student numbers, and that's a real shame because history continues to be a source of intellectual inspiration and curiosity that not only makes us wiser and more reflective but also creates the dynamism and creativity we need to confront our present and future challenges. I hope that among the young generations, there will be people inspired by history, people that have the ambition to research and write about the past.

Photo credit: Jon WilsonThis interview was conducted by Mia Funk and Eva Sanborn with the participation of collaborating universities and students. Associate Interviews Producers on this episode were Sophie Garnier and Eva Sanborn. One Planet Podcast & The Creative Process is produced by Mia Funk. Associate Text Editor was Nadia Lam. Additional production support by Katie Foster.Mia Funk is an artist, interviewer and founder of The Creative Process & One Planet Podcast (Conversations about Climate Change & Environmental Solutions). Listen on Apple,Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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In today's podcast, we talk with Guillaume Lafortune, Vice President and Head of the Paris Office of the UN Sustainable Development Solutions Network (SDSN), the largest global network of scientists and practitioners dedicated to implementing the Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs). We discuss the intersections of sustainability, global progress, the UN Summit of the Future, and the daunting challenges we face. From the impact of war on climate initiatives to transforming data into narratives that drive change, we explore how global cooperation, education, and technology pave the way for a sustainable future and look at the lessons of history and the power of diplomacy in shaping our path forward.

Guillaume Lafortune joined SDSN in 2017 to lead work on SDG data, policies, and financing including the preparation of the annual Sustainable Development Report (which includes the SDG Index and Dashboards). Between 2020 and 2022 Guillaume was a member of The Lancet Commission on COVID-19, where he coordinated the taskforces on “Fiscal Policy and Financial Markets” and “Green Recovery”, and co-authored the final report of the Commission. Guillaume is also a member of the Grenoble Center for Economic Research (CREG) at the Grenoble Alpes University. Previously, he served as an economist at the OECD in Paris and at the Ministry of Economic Development in the Government of Quebec (Canada). Guillaume is the author of 50+ scientific publications, book chapters, policy briefs and international reports on sustainable development, economic policy and good governance.

GUILLAUME LAFORTUNE

The SDSN has been set up to mobilize research and science for the Sustainable Development Goals. Each year, we aim to provide a fair and accurate assessment of countries' progress on the 17 Sustainable Development Goals. The development goals were adopted back in 2015 by all UN member states, marking the first time in human history that we have a common goal for the entire world.

Our goal each year with the SDG index is to have sound methodologies and translate these into actionable insights that can generate impactful results at the end of the day. Out of all the targets that we track, only 16 percent are estimated to be on track. This agenda not only combines environmental development but also social development, economic development, and good governance. Currently, none of the SDGs are on track to be achieved at the global level.

SDSN's Summit of the Future RecommendationsSDG Transformation Center · SDSN Global Commission for Urban SDG FinanceThis interview was conducted by Mia Funk with the participation of collaborating universities and students. Associate Interview Producer and Associate Text Editor on this episode was Nadia Lam. One Planet Podcast is produced by Mia Funk. Additional production support by Katie Foster.Mia Funk is an artist, interviewer and founder of The Creative Process & One Planet Podcast (Conversations about Climate Change & Environmental Solutions). Listen on Apple,Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

View Details

In today's podcast, we talk with Guillaume Lafortune, Vice President and Head of the Paris Office of the UN Sustainable Development Solutions Network (SDSN), the largest global network of scientists and practitioners dedicated to implementing the Sustainable Development Goals (SDGs). We discuss the intersections of sustainability, global progress, the UN Summit of the Future, and the daunting challenges we face. From the impact of war on climate initiatives to transforming data into narratives that drive change, we explore how global cooperation, education, and technology pave the way for a sustainable future and look at the lessons of history and the power of diplomacy in shaping our path forward.

Guillaume Lafortune joined SDSN in 2017 to lead work on SDG data, policies, and financing including the preparation of the annual Sustainable Development Report (which includes the SDG Index and Dashboards). Between 2020 and 2022 Guillaume was a member of The Lancet Commission on COVID-19, where he coordinated the taskforces on “Fiscal Policy and Financial Markets” and “Green Recovery”, and co-authored the final report of the Commission. Guillaume is also a member of the Grenoble Center for Economic Research (CREG) at the Grenoble Alpes University. Previously, he served as an economist at the OECD in Paris and at the Ministry of Economic Development in the Government of Quebec (Canada). Guillaume is the author of 50+ scientific publications, book chapters, policy briefs and international reports on sustainable development, economic policy and good governance.

GUILLAUME LAFORTUNE

The SDSN has been set up to mobilize research and science for the Sustainable Development Goals. Each year, we aim to provide a fair and accurate assessment of countries' progress on the 17 Sustainable Development Goals. The development goals were adopted back in 2015 by all UN member states, marking the first time in human history that we have a common goal for the entire world.

Our goal each year with the SDG index is to have sound methodologies and translate these into actionable insights that can generate impactful results at the end of the day. Out of all the targets that we track, only 16 percent are estimated to be on track. This agenda not only combines environmental development but also social development, economic development, and good governance. Currently, none of the SDGs are on track to be achieved at the global level.

SDSN's Summit of the Future RecommendationsSDG Transformation Center · SDSN Global Commission for Urban SDG FinanceThis interview was conducted by Mia Funk with the participation of collaborating universities and students. Associate Interview Producer and Associate Text Editor on this episode was Nadia Lam. One Planet Podcast is produced by Mia Funk. Additional production support by Katie Foster.Mia Funk is an artist, interviewer and founder of The Creative Process & One Planet Podcast (Conversations about Climate Change & Environmental Solutions). Listen on Apple,Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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For our snap episode on the snap elections in the UK and France, Professor David Palumbo-Liuand Azeezah Kanji talk with eminent decolonial scholar activists, Françoise Vergès in France and Priyamvala Gopal in the UK. Following the defeat of right wing parties in both countries in the polls, we discuss what's changed with the elections, what hasn't changed, and what should movements, activists, and organizers be focusing on.

FRANÇOISE VERGÈS

I would say what we can celebrate is the incredible mobilization of the young people. They went everywhere, they knocked on the door, they mobilized. It was an incredible movement, so that they will go first to vote, but second that they will understand why it was important to vote. This was an incredible, incredible mobilization. So that was extraordinary because it showed real mobilization and an understanding that the National Rally was a real threat. We knew that if they came to power, the first people who would be targeted would be people of color, and that was absolutely clear.

PRIYAMVADA GOPAL

France is perhaps the more interesting election, but in terms of the UK, I think really one can only celebrate the smashing of conservative rule after 13, 14 years. That said, I think we are effectively celebrating a negative, that a government that has been shambolic now for at least six, seven years, much of it very harsh on the poor, on people of color, on migrants, that, that regime has come to an end.
I'm not that sure that I would celebrate what has come in its place. Now, I understand that we are in the so-called honeymoon period and that we should give the current dispensation time to prove itself. But by its own admission, it doesn't plan to change a whole lot in policy terms. It doesn't plan a radical break from what we've had. Cliché though it is, we really have just shifted from Team A to Team B of the neoliberal dispensation. It's not going to be hard to be more competent than the government of the last few years.

Priyamvada Gopal is Professor of Postcolonial Studies at the Faculty of English, University of Cambridge and Professorial Fellow, Churchill College. Her present interests are in the literatures, politics, and cultures of empire, colonialism and decolonisation. She has related interests in the novel, South Asian literature, and postcolonial cultures. Her published work includes Literary Radicalism in India: Gender, Nation and the Transition to Independence (Routledge, 2005), After Iraq: Reframing Postcolonial Studies (Special issue of New Formations co-edited with Neil Lazarus), The Indian English Novel: Nation, History and Narration (Oxford University Press, 2009) and, most recently, Insurgent Empire: Anticolonial Resistance and British Dissent (Verso, 2019) which was shortlisted for the British Academy Prize for Global Cultural Understanding and the Bread and Roses Prize. Her writing has also appeared in The Hindu, Outlook India, India Today, The Independent, Prospect Magazine, The New Statesman, The Guardian, Al-Jazeera English (AJE) and The Nation (USA). She is working on a new project called Decolonization: the Life and Times of an Idea which examines a range of thinkers, contexts and struggles across the Global South.

Françoise Vergès is a writer and decolonial antiracist feminist activist. A Reunionnese, she received an education that ran counter to the French hegemonic school from her anticolonial communist and feminist parents and the members of their organisations. She received her Ph.D in Political Theory from Berkeley University in 1995. She remained an activist during these years, collaborated on Isaac Julien’s film "Black Skin, White Masks » and published in feminist and theory journals. She has taught at Sussex University and Goldsmiths College and has been a visiting professor at different universities. She has never held a teaching position in France but created the Chair Global South(s) at Collège d’études mondiales where she held workshops on different topics (2014-2018). She was president of the National Committee for the History and Remembrance of Slavery (2009-2012), was a co-founder of Decolonize the Arts (2015-2020), the director of the scientific and cultural programme for a museum project in Reunion Island (2004-2010, a project killed by the State and the local conservatives). She is the convener and curator of L’Atelier a collective and collaborative seminar/public performance with activist and artists of color. Recent publications include: Programme de désordre absolu. Décoloniser le musée (2023), A Feminist Theory of Violence (2021), De la violence coloniale dans l’espace public (2021), The Wombs of Women. Capital, Race, Feminism (2021), A Decolonial Feminism (2020).

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Speaking Out of Place, which carries on the spirit of Palumbo-Liu’s book of the same title, argues against the notion that we are voiceless and powerless, and that we need politicians and pundits and experts to speak for us.

Judith Butler on Speaking Out of Place:

“In this work we see how every critical analysis of homelessness, displacement, internment, violence, and exploitation is countered by emergent and intensifying social movements that move beyond national borders to the ideal of a planetary alliance. As an activist and a scholar, Palumbo-Liu shows us what vigilance means in these times. This book takes us through the wretched landscape of our world to the ideals of social transformation, calling for a place, the planet, where collective passions can bring about a true and radical democracy.”

David Palumbo-Liu is the Louise Hewlett Nixon Professor and Professor of Comparative Literature at Stanford University. He has written widely on issues of literary criticism and theory, culture and society, race, ethnicity and indigeneity, human rights, and environmental justice. His books include The Deliverance of Others: Reading Literature in a Global Age, and Speaking Out of Place: Getting Our Political Voices Back. His writing has appeared in The Washington Post, The Guardian, The Nation, Al Jazeera, Jacobin, Truthout, and other venues.
Twitter/X @palumboliuApple Podcasts · Spotify · Website · Instagram

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As Surrealism turns 100, what can it teach us about the importance of dreaming and creating a better society? Will we wake up from the consumerist dream sold to us by capitalism and how would that change our ideas of utopia?

S. D. Chrostowska is professor of humanities at York University, Canada. She is the author of several books, among them Permission, The Eyelid, A Cage for Every Child, and, most recently, Utopia in the Age of Survival: Between Myth and Politics. Her essays have appeared in such venues as Public Culture, Telos, Boundary 2, and The Hedgehog Review. She also coedits the French surrealist review Alcheringa and is curator of the 19th International Exhibition of Surrealism, Marvellous Utopia, which runs from July to September 2024 in Saint-Cirq-Lapopie, France.

S. D. CHROSTOWSKA

Utopia and the Age of Survival was really an axiological intervention, a reminder of certain values that unite the left. In the book, I focus on two things: Utopia as a myth -- not as a political myth, but as a social myth, in the sense that it goes beyond politics -- and I also communicate my preference for utopias that are not state-based. I use the term “body utopias,” because they’re really anchored in the individual rather than the collective. They arise from individual bodily needs, desires, and how the two interact. From there, they also take into account our individual differences.

Utopias really began as and are anchored in myths; of the golden age, of paradise, and, more recently, of revolution. Utopia is a speculative myth of where society is headed. I think that left-wing thought and socialism -- within which we find anarchism -- can be united around this idea. On the other hand, of course, capitalism also uses utopia, and refers back to ulterior myths to put our critical capacity to sleep. In our capitalistic culture, utopia is used to sell a vision of a better body, a better society, and a better future for the “techno-utopian” crowd. The earlier myth is Thomas More’s city of Utopia; More is the originator of modern Utopianism as we know it, this idea of a utopian island reserved for just some. With my book, I try to take back the term of utopia, and to also rehabilitate a bit this idea of myth, which has been tarnished by 20th century ideologies. I try to do this in order to find the broadest possible common ground for left-wing thinking.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

We as a society have been talking about utopia for a long time, but what does it actually look like to put that into action?

CHROSTOWSKA

I like to think of utopianism as “effective social daydreaming” -- the expression “effective dreaming” comes from Ursula Le Guin's novel The Lathe of Heaven. My novella, The Eyelid, is where I first put some of these ideas into images -- ideas which later I developed in Utopia and the Age of Survival. I like the definition of effective social daydreaming because utopia is associated with consciously imagining societies, but I also want to bring daydreaming back to dreaming, because our night dreams are wish fulfillments. In The Eyelid, I explored night dreams and their utopian potential. But going back to effective social daydreaming -- utopian ideas are embodied in our actions. The 19th century French liberal Lamartine said utopias are often only premature truths. Another way of putting it is that what is imaginary tends to become real -- that’s a quote from the founder of Surrealism, André Breton. We daydream of a better world, and this could be a very vague daydream. The idea of utopianism that I'm putting forward in the book is not a detailed, orderly, rational model of the city utopia. It’s this free floating, desirous model of the body utopia, which is unfinished and imperfect. It's always in transformation. These dreams and daydreams that we have are guiding our actions, influencing our day-to-day behavior if we let them. Our imagination is always involved in creating reality. The opposition between the two, reality and the imaginary, is not a stark one; they're porous.

The Techno-utopian Dream of AI

There’s the existing AI and the dream of artificial general intelligence that is aligned with our values and will make our lives better. Certainly, the techno-utopian dream is that it will lead us towards utopia. It is the means of organizing human collectivities, human societies, in a way that would reconcile all the variables, all the things that we can't reconcile because we don't have enough of a fine-grained understanding of how people interact, the different motivations of their psychologies and of societies, of groups of people. Of course, that's another kind of psychology that we're talking about. So I think the dream of AI is a utopian dream that stands correcting, but it is itself being corrected by those who are the curators of that technology. Now you asked me about the changing role of artists in this landscape. I would say, first of all, that I'm for virtuosity. And this makes me think of AI and a higher level AI, it would be virtuous before it becomes super intelligence.

Surrealism as a Framework for Utopia

In recent years, I’ve turned to Surrealism. I found in it something like a mirror of aspects of my sensibility, and a history with which I remain in dialogue. Most people mistake Surrealism for an aesthetic movement, but Surrealism's emphasis is on the unconscious workings of thought. I find it a very important piece of the puzzle of what attitude we should take in order to live in a more “utopianizing” fashion, as I call it in my book. We can daydream of a better society, one that includes not just us or our family, but everyone, because a utopia worthy of the name today is universal, it's all-inclusive. So surrealism is not just an aesthetics, it's also an ethics, and that ethics is utopian. It's an impulse to refashion one’s life, to create a world, and to transform the world into a desirable one. We want the imagination to be empowered. I talk about Surrealism in the book, but it has since taken on even greater importance in my day to day life. I am actively involved in the French Surrealist Movement in an effort to keep it alive, and to remind the public that it is still very much an international movement staying true to its principles. I've co-curated a major exhibition of Surrealism, reflecting on the 100 years since the Manifesto of Surrealism, so I'm very much in this moment where I'm trying to explain to the public the value of this movement.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

Tell us a little bit about your upbringing in Poland at the end of the Cold War, and how that shaped your visions of utopia in the modern age.

CHROSTOWSKA

I grew up in Poland in the 80s and the very early 90s. I left when I was 19, and I also spent a couple of years in the States. As a child and adolescent, I had a taste of both worlds; I experienced the cultural contrast between the West and the Soviet bloc in Eastern Europe. I was in the US when Chernobyl happened, and the West left an indelible impression on me. I was first amazed by the sheer abundance of commodity culture; that constant stimulation of the desire for the bigger and the better contributed in more ways than I can even name to the education of my sensibility. There also was the freedom of expression that, even though I was very young, I felt to be different from what I was used to in Poland. This was a brief period [of my life], but it was very important. And then, in 1989, we had the first parliamentary elections in Poland, and we were the first country to do so in the Eastern Bloc. It was the end of the so-called communist era, and my family rejoiced because they supported the Solidarity movement and they distributed samizdat literature. My aunt was a librarian, and she would show me this clandestine literature. I understood the fear of surveillance, the regime of fear that the adults around me lived through, and the breath of fresh air when the elections happened and the transition began. And in 1990, my father took me to Berlin, and this was as the Wall was coming down, demolished with bulldozers and hammers and pickaxes by ordinary people in the street. I thought this was very symbolic. Witnessing these two very rapid transitions made me think that change, even in apparently prohibitive circumstances, remained a real possibility. Maybe that's what made me a natural candidate for utopian thinking, for embracing utopian thought.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

How do you reconcile visions of utopia with living in harmony with our planet, especially considering that the concept of utopia implies a man-made design or a return to an original equilibrium with a pristine nature that may no longer exist?

CHROSTOWSKA

I think that we should not be under any illusion that we can return to some pristine Earth. We have to do the best we can with the Earth that we have inherited for our generation and for those of our children, but we should not, therefore, say, well, it's all lost. Species are becoming extinct as never before. We should not become pessimists because there is no other alternative, because we've been robbed of this idea of pristine nature.

I think nature has not been pristine. People speak about the Anthropocene. I don't quite like this term, but the idea that humans have been transforming nature and have been altering it, adulterating it, something to put into perspective this nostalgia for pristine nature. And utopianism actually goes hand in hand with nostalgia, in the sense that nostalgic longings have long fed into utopian imaginaries, right? I mentioned the myth of the Golden Age. This was something that used to exist, the Golden Age, right? Or paradise, an idea of nature, again, pure nature in harmony with human beings. These nostalgic imaginaries that feed into and can reactivate utopian thinking in our day. We should by no means let go of an idea of pristine nature. And I also don't think – just to return to this idea of species extinction – I don't think that the de-extinction efforts are particularly utopian, even though they may seem this way. How do we compensate for the material loss of biodiversity? I think no amount of technological ingenuity will actually fulfill this desire for a return to the pristine nature that we have lost.

Reflections for the Next Generation

I'd like young people not to limit their world to content they can find on the internet. I think that's a real danger. Many of my students say, “well, I haven't thought about this. I haven't read this because I didn't find it online for free.” I want them to remember that not all knowledge is digitized, that much remains elusive to the nets of the internet even in its effort to make knowledge accessible on one platform, to create this kind of enormous encyclopedia. And in this quest, we also reduce the past to the present. The past is more virtually present in our lives than for any other generation, because it's available online in the form of textual and audiovisual archives. This proximity actually affects the past's pastness. The appearance of distance is lost in the digital reproduction, whether it's paintings, or archival documents, or photographs. I think it's erroneous to think that everything that is extant from the past is at our fingertips and that we don't have to go out and look for it. So what I would like to pass on is curiosity; curiosity about the past shouldn't stop at the digital. It's tempting to think that all the answers are already there online because it's so vast, this web we are spinning, but that’s not the case.

This interview was conducted by Mia Funk and Devon Mullins with the participation of collaborating universities and students. Associate Interviews Producers on this episode were Sophie Garnier and Devon Mullins. The Creative Process is produced by Mia Funk. Associate Text Editor was Sofia Reecer. Additional production support by Sophie GarnierMia Funk is an artist, interviewer and founder of The Creative Process & One Planet Podcast (Conversations about Climate Change & Environmental Solutions). Listen on Apple,Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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As Surrealism turns 100, what can it teach us about the importance of dreaming and creating a better society? Will we wake up from the consumerist dream sold to us by capitalism and how would that change our ideas of utopia?

S. D. Chrostowska is professor of humanities at York University, Canada. She is the author of several books, among them Permission, The Eyelid, A Cage for Every Child, and, most recently, Utopia in the Age of Survival: Between Myth and Politics. Her essays have appeared in such venues as Public Culture, Telos, Boundary 2, and The Hedgehog Review. She also coedits the French surrealist review Alcheringa and is curator of the 19th International Exhibition of Surrealism, Marvellous Utopia, which runs from July to September 2024 in Saint-Cirq-Lapopie, France.

S. D. CHROSTOWSKA

Utopia and the Age of Survival was really an axiological intervention, a reminder of certain values that unite the left. In the book, I focus on two things: Utopia as a myth -- not as a political myth, but as a social myth, in the sense that it goes beyond politics -- and I also communicate my preference for utopias that are not state-based. I use the term “body utopias,” because they’re really anchored in the individual rather than the collective. They arise from individual bodily needs, desires, and how the two interact. From there, they also take into account our individual differences.

Utopias really began as and are anchored in myths; of the golden age, of paradise, and, more recently, of revolution. Utopia is a speculative myth of where society is headed. I think that left-wing thought and socialism -- within which we find anarchism -- can be united around this idea. On the other hand, of course, capitalism also uses utopia, and refers back to ulterior myths to put our critical capacity to sleep. In our capitalistic culture, utopia is used to sell a vision of a better body, a better society, and a better future for the “techno-utopian” crowd. The earlier myth is Thomas More’s city of Utopia; More is the originator of modern Utopianism as we know it, this idea of a utopian island reserved for just some. With my book, I try to take back the term of utopia, and to also rehabilitate a bit this idea of myth, which has been tarnished by 20th century ideologies. I try to do this in order to find the broadest possible common ground for left-wing thinking.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

We as a society have been talking about utopia for a long time, but what does it actually look like to put that into action?

CHROSTOWSKA

I like to think of utopianism as “effective social daydreaming” -- the expression “effective dreaming” comes from Ursula Le Guin's novel The Lathe of Heaven. My novella, The Eyelid, is where I first put some of these ideas into images -- ideas which later I developed in Utopia and the Age of Survival. I like the definition of effective social daydreaming because utopia is associated with consciously imagining societies, but I also want to bring daydreaming back to dreaming, because our night dreams are wish fulfillments. In The Eyelid, I explored night dreams and their utopian potential. But going back to effective social daydreaming -- utopian ideas are embodied in our actions. The 19th century French liberal Lamartine said utopias are often only premature truths. Another way of putting it is that what is imaginary tends to become real -- that’s a quote from the founder of Surrealism, André Breton. We daydream of a better world, and this could be a very vague daydream. The idea of utopianism that I'm putting forward in the book is not a detailed, orderly, rational model of the city utopia. It’s this free floating, desirous model of the body utopia, which is unfinished and imperfect. It's always in transformation. These dreams and daydreams that we have are guiding our actions, influencing our day-to-day behavior if we let them. Our imagination is always involved in creating reality. The opposition between the two, reality and the imaginary, is not a stark one; they're porous.

The Techno-utopian Dream of AI

There’s the existing AI and the dream of artificial general intelligence that is aligned with our values and will make our lives better. Certainly, the techno-utopian dream is that it will lead us towards utopia. It is the means of organizing human collectivities, human societies, in a way that would reconcile all the variables, all the things that we can't reconcile because we don't have enough of a fine-grained understanding of how people interact, the different motivations of their psychologies and of societies, of groups of people. Of course, that's another kind of psychology that we're talking about. So I think the dream of AI is a utopian dream that stands correcting, but it is itself being corrected by those who are the curators of that technology. Now you asked me about the changing role of artists in this landscape. I would say, first of all, that I'm for virtuosity. And this makes me think of AI and a higher level AI, it would be virtuous before it becomes super intelligence.

Surrealism as a Framework for Utopia

In recent years, I’ve turned to Surrealism. I found in it something like a mirror of aspects of my sensibility, and a history with which I remain in dialogue. Most people mistake Surrealism for an aesthetic movement, but Surrealism's emphasis is on the unconscious workings of thought. I find it a very important piece of the puzzle of what attitude we should take in order to live in a more “utopianizing” fashion, as I call it in my book. We can daydream of a better society, one that includes not just us or our family, but everyone, because a utopia worthy of the name today is universal, it's all-inclusive. So surrealism is not just an aesthetics, it's also an ethics, and that ethics is utopian. It's an impulse to refashion one’s life, to create a world, and to transform the world into a desirable one. We want the imagination to be empowered. I talk about Surrealism in the book, but it has since taken on even greater importance in my day to day life. I am actively involved in the French Surrealist Movement in an effort to keep it alive, and to remind the public that it is still very much an international movement staying true to its principles. I've co-curated a major exhibition of Surrealism, reflecting on the 100 years since the Manifesto of Surrealism, so I'm very much in this moment where I'm trying to explain to the public the value of this movement.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

Tell us a little bit about your upbringing in Poland at the end of the Cold War, and how that shaped your visions of utopia in the modern age.

CHROSTOWSKA

I grew up in Poland in the 80s and the very early 90s. I left when I was 19, and I also spent a couple of years in the States. As a child and adolescent, I had a taste of both worlds; I experienced the cultural contrast between the West and the Soviet bloc in Eastern Europe. I was in the US when Chernobyl happened, and the West left an indelible impression on me. I was first amazed by the sheer abundance of commodity culture; that constant stimulation of the desire for the bigger and the better contributed in more ways than I can even name to the education of my sensibility. There also was the freedom of expression that, even though I was very young, I felt to be different from what I was used to in Poland. This was a brief period [of my life], but it was very important. And then, in 1989, we had the first parliamentary elections in Poland, and we were the first country to do so in the Eastern Bloc. It was the end of the so-called communist era, and my family rejoiced because they supported the Solidarity movement and they distributed samizdat literature. My aunt was a librarian, and she would show me this clandestine literature. I understood the fear of surveillance, the regime of fear that the adults around me lived through, and the breath of fresh air when the elections happened and the transition began. And in 1990, my father took me to Berlin, and this was as the Wall was coming down, demolished with bulldozers and hammers and pickaxes by ordinary people in the street. I thought this was very symbolic. Witnessing these two very rapid transitions made me think that change, even in apparently prohibitive circumstances, remained a real possibility. Maybe that's what made me a natural candidate for utopian thinking, for embracing utopian thought.

THE CREATIVE PROCESS · ONE PLANET PODCAST

How do you reconcile visions of utopia with living in harmony with our planet, especially considering that the concept of utopia implies a man-made design or a return to an original equilibrium with a pristine nature that may no longer exist?

CHROSTOWSKA

I think that we should not be under any illusion that we can return to some pristine Earth. We have to do the best we can with the Earth that we have inherited for our generation and for those of our children, but we should not, therefore, say, well, it's all lost. Species are becoming extinct as never before. We should not become pessimists because there is no other alternative, because we've been robbed of this idea of pristine nature.

I think nature has not been pristine. People speak about the Anthropocene. I don't quite like this term, but the idea that humans have been transforming nature and have been altering it, adulterating it, something to put into perspective this nostalgia for pristine nature. And utopianism actually goes hand in hand with nostalgia, in the sense that nostalgic longings have long fed into utopian imaginaries, right? I mentioned the myth of the Golden Age. This was something that used to exist, the Golden Age, right? Or paradise, an idea of nature, again, pure nature in harmony with human beings. These nostalgic imaginaries that feed into and can reactivate utopian thinking in our day. We should by no means let go of an idea of pristine nature. And I also don't think – just to return to this idea of species extinction – I don't think that the de-extinction efforts are particularly utopian, even though they may seem this way. How do we compensate for the material loss of biodiversity? I think no amount of technological ingenuity will actually fulfill this desire for a return to the pristine nature that we have lost.

Reflections for the Next Generation

I'd like young people not to limit their world to content they can find on the internet. I think that's a real danger. Many of my students say, “well, I haven't thought about this. I haven't read this because I didn't find it online for free.” I want them to remember that not all knowledge is digitized, that much remains elusive to the nets of the internet even in its effort to make knowledge accessible on one platform, to create this kind of enormous encyclopedia. And in this quest, we also reduce the past to the present. The past is more virtually present in our lives than for any other generation, because it's available online in the form of textual and audiovisual archives. This proximity actually affects the past's pastness. The appearance of distance is lost in the digital reproduction, whether it's paintings, or archival documents, or photographs. I think it's erroneous to think that everything that is extant from the past is at our fingertips and that we don't have to go out and look for it. So what I would like to pass on is curiosity; curiosity about the past shouldn't stop at the digital. It's tempting to think that all the answers are already there online because it's so vast, this web we are spinning, but that’s not the case.

This interview was conducted by Mia Funk and Devon Mullins with the participation of collaborating universities and students. Associate Interviews Producers on this episode were Sophie Garnier and Devon Mullins. The Creative Process is produced by Mia Funk. Associate Text Editor was Sofia Reecer. Additional production support by Sophie GarnierMia Funk is an artist, interviewer and founder of The Creative Process & One Planet Podcast (Conversations about Climate Change & Environmental Solutions). Listen on Apple,Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts.

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The Five-pronged Clean Energy Future
“I thought about it, and I was wondering, what do we actually need in the world? Because we don't need petrol and we don't need coal. We need energy to power various things. So, we need these energy services. So, what's the simplest way of providing all of the energy services? And it really seems to me that we can basically do it all with about five different types of goods. So the system of the future I put out in the book is first of all, you have the generation of electricity, which is mainly going to be with renewables, mainly with wind and solar because they are the cheapest and they're getting cheaper thanks to Wright's Law. Then you need energy storage and other means of sharing matching demand to supply. So, storage is the one that people will be most familiar with, which can be batteries, for example. And again, the price of batteries has also plummeted about 85 percent price reduction in a decade. And it continues because, again, we have mounting volumes. In a competitive market, there's lots of innovation going on in terms of battery design, in terms of construction, and all of this stuff, new materials coming into batteries. So, that's your first two, that's your renewable generation and your battery storage. Electric vehicles will be the main method of transportation. Already, they dominate sales in the two-wheeler market in China and India. They're already eating into global oil demand. They're taking about 1.5 percent of global oil demand already, and the sales are increasing exponentially in China and other countries as well. They are cost-competitive. It's just on the purchase price in some markets with some models now. And it's going to get cheaper again because battery costs will fall. Heating and cooling, which is a big demand for energy. We can use heat pumps, which are super efficient running on electricity…Hydrogen, that will probably be the fifth prong, but a smaller prong, rather like the little finger on your hand.”

Richard Black spent 15 years as a science and environment correspondent for the BBC World Service and BBC News, before setting up the Energy & Climate Intelligence Unit. He now lives in Berlin and is the Director of Policy and Strategy at the global clean energy think tank Ember, which aims to accelerate the clean energy transition with data and policy. He is the author of The Future of Energy; Denied:The Rise and Fall of Climate Contrarianism, and is an Honorary Research Fellow at Imperial College London.

https://mhpbooks.com/books/the-future-of-energy
https://ember-climate.org/about/people/richard-black
https://ember-climate.org
www.therealpress.co.uk/?s=Richard+black

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How and when will we transition to a clean energy future? How will the transition empower individuals and transform global power dynamics? How did China become the world’s first electrostate, leading the drive for renewable energy, and what can we learn from this?

Richard Black spent 15 years as a science and environment correspondent for the BBC World Service and BBC News, before setting up the Energy & Climate Intelligence Unit. He now lives in Berlin and is the Director of Policy and Strategy at the global clean energy think tank Ember, which aims to accelerate the clean energy transition with data and policy.

He is the author of The Future of Energy; Denied:The Rise and Fall of Climate Contrarianism, and is an Honorary Research Fellow at Imperial College London.

The Five-pronged Clean Energy Future
“I thought about it, and I was wondering, what do we actually need in the world? Because we don't need petrol and we don't need coal. We need energy to power various things. So, we need these energy services. So, what's the simplest way of providing all of the energy services? And it really seems to me that we can basically do it all with about five different types of goods. So the system of the future I put out in the book is first of all, you have the generation of electricity, which is mainly going to be with renewables, mainly with wind and solar because they are the cheapest and they're getting cheaper thanks to Wright's Law. Then you need energy storage and other means of sharing matching demand to supply. So, storage is the one that people will be most familiar with, which can be batteries, for example. And again, the price of batteries has also plummeted about 85 percent price reduction in a decade. And it continues because, again, we have mounting volumes. In a competitive market, there's lots of innovation going on in terms of battery design, in terms of construction, and all of this stuff, new materials coming into batteries. So, that's your first two, that's your renewable generation and your battery storage. Electric vehicles will be the main method of transportation. Already, they dominate sales in the two-wheeler market in China and India. They're already eating into global oil demand. They're taking about 1.5 percent of global oil demand already, and the sales are increasing exponentially in China and other countries as well. They are cost-competitive. It's just on the purchase price in some markets with some models now. And it's going to get cheaper again because battery costs will fall. Heating and cooling, which is a big demand for energy. We can use heat pumps, which are super efficient running on electricity…Hydrogen, that will probably be the fifth prong, but a smaller prong, rather like the little finger on your hand.”

https://mhpbooks.com/books/the-future-of-energy
https://ember-climate.org/about/people/richard-black
https://ember-climate.org
www.therealpress.co.uk/?s=Richard+black

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www.oneplanetpodcast.org
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“As a filmmaker, I've always made films about extraordinary women whose lives are faced with extenuating circumstances who've had adversity thrown at them and who've risen to the occasion. And when I began to look at Diane's story, for me, Diane is a fashion designer, but she's so much more. Her central ethos is woman before fashion, and we felt it was very important to take that ethos and weave it into the spine of our film, and make it about the woman.
In making this film, every single person who we called whose voice we wanted to include wanted to contribute. They wanted to say something about Diane, because she had left such a mark on their lives. Our producers’ jobs, Tracy and Fabiola, was to juggle those schedules. How do you juggle the schedule of secretary Hillary Clinton with Oprah Winfrey? How do you make sure that Anderson Cooper and Mark Jacobs, you know, in the filming time that we had, that we could put all of these people together? But Diane's friendships run deep with people, and people made sure to make time.

You know, she was a single mother, and I think that young single mothers watching this film will feel for Diane, especially single mothers who are trying to be entrepreneurs, and creating businesses, and trying to find their way into the world to be able to raise a family. To do that as an immigrant in a new country is challenging, and Diane shows you just how challenging it is. In making choices about living her life, in being with her children or expanding her business, there were sacrifices that were made, and those sacrifices are boldly put on the screen for viewers to watch.”

Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy is an Oscar and Emmy award-winning Canadian-Pakistani filmmaker whose work highlights extraordinary women and their stories. She earned her first Academy Award in 2012 for her documentary Saving Face, about the Pakistani women targeted by brutal acid attacks. Today, Obaid-Chinoy is the first female film director to have won two Oscars by the age of 37. In 2023, it was announced that Obaid-Chinoy will direct the next Star Wars film starring Daisy Ridley. Her most recent project, co-directed alongside Trish Dalton, is the new documentary Diane von Fürstenberg: Woman in Charge, about the trailblazing Belgian fashion designer who invented the wrap dress 50 years ago. The film had its world premiere as the opening night selection at the 2024 Tribeca Festival on June 5th and premiered on June 25th on Hulu in the U.S. and Disney+ internationally. A product of Obaid-Chinoy's incredibly talented female filmmaking team, Woman in Charge provides an intimate look into Diane von Fürstenberg’s life and accomplishments and chronicles the trajectory of her signature dress from an innovative fashion statement to a powerful symbol of feminism.

www.hulu.com/movie/diane-von-furstenberg-woman-in-charge-95fb421e-b7b1-4bfc-9bbf-ea666dba0b02
https://www.disneyplus.com/movies/diane-von-furstenberg-woman-in-charge/1jrpX9AhsaJ6
https://socfilms.com

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How can we free ourselves from fear and social barriers to live more fulfilling and meaningful lives? What does it take to overcome trauma and turn it into triumph, and failure into reinvention? How can we shine a light on the marginalized and misunderstood to create social change that transforms the lives of women?

Sharmeen Obaid-Chinoy is an Oscar and Emmy award-winning Canadian-Pakistani filmmaker whose work highlights extraordinary women and their stories. She earned her first Academy Award in 2012 for her documentary Saving Face, about the Pakistani women targeted by brutal acid attacks. Today, Obaid-Chinoy is the first female film director to have won two Oscars by the age of 37. In 2023, it was announced that Obaid-Chinoy will direct the next Star Wars film starring Daisy Ridley. Her most recent project, co-directed alongside Trish Dalton, is the new documentary Diane von Fürstenberg: Woman in Charge, about the trailblazing Belgian fashion designer who invented the wrap dress 50 years ago. The film had its world premiere as the opening night selection at the 2024 Tribeca Festival on June 5th and premiered on June 25th on Hulu in the U.S. and Disney+ internationally. A product of Obaid-Chinoy's incredibly talented female filmmaking team, Woman in Charge provides an intimate look into Diane von Fürstenberg’s life and accomplishments and chronicles the trajectory of her signature dress from an innovative fashion statement to a powerful symbol of feminism.

“As a filmmaker, I've always made films about extraordinary women whose lives are faced with extenuating circumstances who've had adversity thrown at them and who've risen to the occasion. And when I began to look at Diane's story, for me, Diane is a fashion designer, but she's so much more. Her central ethos is woman before fashion, and we felt it was very important to take that ethos and weave it into the spine of our film, and make it about the woman.
In making this film, every single person who we called whose voice we wanted to include wanted to contribute. They wanted to say something about Diane, because she had left such a mark on their lives. Our producers’ jobs, Tracy and Fabiola, was to juggle those schedules. How do you juggle the schedule of secretary Hillary Clinton with Oprah Winfrey? How do you make sure that Anderson Cooper and Mark Jacobs, you know, in the filming time that we had, that we could put all of these people together? But Diane's friendships run deep with people, and people made sure to make time.

You know, she was a single mother, and I think that young single mothers watching this film will feel for Diane, especially single mothers who are trying to be entrepreneurs, and creating businesses, and trying to find their way into the world to be able to raise a family. To do that as an immigrant in a new country is challenging, and Diane shows you just how challenging it is. In making choices about living her life, in being with her children or expanding her business, there were sacrifices that were made, and those sacrifices are boldly put on the screen for viewers to watch.”

www.hulu.com/movie/diane-von-furstenberg-woman-in-charge-95fb421e-b7b1-4bfc-9bbf-ea666dba0b02
https://www.disneyplus.com/movies/diane-von-furstenberg-woman-in-charge/1jrpX9AhsaJ6
https://socfilms.com

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www.oneplanetpodcast.org
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“From an educational perspective, I believe AI has the potential to level the playing field and provide broader access to digital resources akin to having a digital Aristotle – offering dialogue and bouncing of ideas. I've observed some exciting use cases and tools in universities that demonstrate the cost-effective power of these technologies. In addition to text, AI-generated content has the potential to bring history to life and create innovative forms of assessment and engagement for teachers and students. Despite its reliability issues, AI can provide valuable data points in subjects like history and science and also revolutionize content presentation. However, there is an ongoing crisis in higher and secondary education related to cheating, as educators struggle to detect AI-generated content in student submissions. While many in the industry are enthusiastic about the opportunities AI presents, detection tools are currently insufficient to confidently identify AI-generated work as cheating. To address this issue, alternate assessment methods such as Viva style examinations have been suggested. However, implementing such methods would require a significant increase in resources. There are also proposals for randomized defenses of submitted work, similar to a "drug test," to deter students from using AI to complete assignments. The prevalence of AI-generated assignments poses a significant challenge, particularly as educators and students are reluctant to revert to traditional examination methods. While there are creative solutions we can explore, such as engaging with chatbots for critique and limitations, it's evident that the issue requires attention, especially in state education where resources and AI expertise may be lacking.”

Henry Ajder is an advisor, speaker, and broadcaster working at the frontier of the generative AI and the synthetic media revolution. He advises organizations on the opportunities and challenges these technologies present, including Adobe, Meta, The European Commission, BBC, The Partnership on AI, and The House of Lords. Previously, Henry led Synthetic Futures, the first initiative dedicated to ethical generative AI and metaverse technologies, bringing together over 50 industry-leading organizations. Henry presented the BBC documentary series, The Future Will be Synthesised.www.henryajder.com
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0017cgr

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How is artificial intelligence redefining our perception of reality and truth? Can AI be creative? And how is it changing art and innovation? Does AI-generated perfection detach us from reality and genuine human connection?

Henry Ajder is an advisor, speaker, and broadcaster working at the frontier of the generative AI and the synthetic media revolution. He advises organizations on the opportunities and challenges these technologies present, including Adobe, Meta, The European Commission, BBC, The Partnership on AI, and The House of Lords. Previously, Henry led Synthetic Futures, the first initiative dedicated to ethical generative AI and metaverse technologies, bringing together over 50 industry-leading organizations. Henry presented the BBC documentary series, The Future Will be Synthesised.

“From an educational perspective, I believe AI has the potential to level the playing field and provide broader access to digital resources akin to having a digital Aristotle – offering dialogue and bouncing of ideas. I've observed some exciting use cases and tools in universities that demonstrate the cost-effective power of these technologies. In addition to text, AI-generated content has the potential to bring history to life and create innovative forms of assessment and engagement for teachers and students. Despite its reliability issues, AI can provide valuable data points in subjects like history and science and also revolutionize content presentation. However, there is an ongoing crisis in higher and secondary education related to cheating, as educators struggle to detect AI-generated content in student submissions. While many in the industry are enthusiastic about the opportunities AI presents, detection tools are currently insufficient to confidently identify AI-generated work as cheating. To address this issue, alternate assessment methods such as Viva style examinations have been suggested. However, implementing such methods would require a significant increase in resources. There are also proposals for randomized defenses of submitted work, similar to a "drug test," to deter students from using AI to complete assignments. The prevalence of AI-generated assignments poses a significant challenge, particularly as educators and students are reluctant to revert to traditional examination methods. While there are creative solutions we can explore, such as engaging with chatbots for critique and limitations, it's evident that the issue requires attention, especially in state education where resources and AI expertise may be lacking.”www.henryajder.com
www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0017cgr

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In this episode of the Speaking Out of Place podcast Professor David Palumbo-Liutalks with acclaimed author and activist, and San Francisco legend, Chris Carlsson about his new novel, When Shells Crumble. It begins in December 2024, when the US Supreme Court nullifies the popular vote in the Presidential election and awards the presidency to an authoritarian Republican, who proceeds to demolish democracy and install a fascistic state that hastens ecological havoc. The novel is much more than your usual dystopian tale—it focuses on how to resist political cynicism and defeatism, and rebuild on planetary wreckage. It is a world-building project filled with wisdom, sadness, and joy. We specifically put this fictional text in conservation with his brilliant non-fiction work, Nowtopia, which offers a radical redefinition of “work” that restores dignity and value to their proper places.

Chris Carlsson, co-director of the “history from below” project Shaping San Francisco, is a writer, publisher, editor, photographer, public speaker, and occasional professor. He was one of the founders in 1981 of the seminal and infamous underground San Francisco magazine Processed World. In 1992 Carlsson co-founded Critical Mass in San Francisco, which both led to a local bicycling boom and helped to incubate transformative urban movements in hundreds of cities, large and small, worldwide. In 1995 work began on “Shaping San Francisco;” since then the project has morphed into an incomparable archive of San Francisco history at Foundsf.org, award-winning bicycle and walking tours, and almost two decades of Public Talks covering history, politics, ecology, art, and more (see shapingsf.org). Beginning in Spring 2020, Carlsson has hosted Bay Cruises along the San Francisco shoreline.

His latest novel, When Shells Crumble was published by Spuyten Duyvil in Brooklyn, NY at the end of 2023. At the dawn of the pandemic, he published a detailed historical guidebook of the city, Hidden San Francisco: A Guide to Lost Landscapes, Unsung Heroes, and Radical Histories (Pluto Press: 2020). His full-length nonfiction work Nowtopia(AK Press: 2008), offers a groundbreaking look at class and work while uniquely examining how hard and pleasantly we work when we’re not at our official jobs. He published his first novel, After The Deluge, in 2004, a story of post-economic utopian San Francisco in the year 2157. He has edited six books, including three “Reclaiming San Francisco” collections with the venerable City Lights Books. He redesigned and co-authored an expanded Vanished Waters: A History of San Francisco’s Mission Bay after which he joined the board of the Mission Creek Conservancy. He has given hundreds of public presentations based on Shaping San Francisco, Critical Mass, Nowtopia, Vanished Waters, and his “Reclaiming San Francisco” history anthologies since the late 1990s, and has appeared dozens of times in radio, television and on the internet.

www.palumbo-liu.com
https://speakingoutofplace.com
https://twitter.com/palumboliu?s=20
www.instagram.com/speaking_out_of_place

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How can we show more kindness, respect, and love to the animals we share this planet with? What lessons can we learn from non-human animals about living in greater harmony with nature?

Ingrid Newkirk is the Founder and President of PETA, actively leading the organization and advocating for animal rights. PETA is the largest animal rights organization in the world with more than 9 million members and supporters globally. Under her leadership, PETA has achieved significant victories, such as ending car-crash tests on animals, pushing major fashion brands to go fur-free, influencing Ringling Bros. to become an animal-free circus, and helping pass a law that allows the U.S. Food and Drug Administration to approve new medications without conducting cruel tests on animals. Ingrid has written 14 books and has been featured in major publications like The New Yorker and The Guardian, and was the subject of HBO's documentary I Am an Animal and was named one of Forbes’ “100 Most Powerful Women.” She joined One Planet Podcast to reflect on her 75 years as animal rights advocate.

“I think things do change because of agitation. So agitation is vital. I mean, nobody who is in a cause should be there to win a popularity contest, whether you're working for children or the elderly or working for peace animals, it's all against nonviolence, aggression, domination, and needless cruelty and suffering. It's all for respect. So you have to be vigorous. You have to use your voice. You can use it politely, but if people don't listen, at PETA, we escalate. So we always start off with a polite letter, a polite entreaty. We always try to, as I say, do the homework. So we have the options that we put out on the table to say, look, instead of doing this, you could do that, and we will help you transition to that.

They’re not human traits. They’re all shared traits because, of course, we all love. We all love our families, or not. We all grieve if somebody we love disappears or dies. A family dog, perhaps. A grandfather. We all feel loneliness, we all feel joy. We all really value our freedom. And so I think, if anything, looking into the eyes of the animal, even online, you see a person in there. There’s a someone in whatever the shape or the physical properties of that individual are. And that lesson is that I am you. You are me, only different. We are all the same in all the ways that count…Any living being teaches you– Look into my eyes. And there you are, the reflection of yourself. So we need to learn from the animals how to live more gently and consume less and be more thoughtful and look out for each other in this great circle of life.”
www.peta.org
www.ingridnewkirk.com

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“I had an absolutely wonderful high school history teacher, Dave Corkran. I dedicated On Disinformation to him. He taught me to think for myself and not to be afraid to express what I thought. And in college, Richard Adelstein, a very philosophical economist, who basically said, “Do not go to graduate school in economics, they won't let you do what you're interested in. You've got to go to philosophy graduate school.” So he was really my mentor in thinking that I could become a philosopher. Then there’s my mom. She didn't go to college, but was extraordinarily intelligent and interested in all sorts of things. She was fascinated with Einstein and wanted to understand physics. When I was a little boy, she would wrap me up in a blanket on cold nights, and we would look at the stars. I was four years old, so I would ask, “What are the stars?” And she said, “They're suns. They're just very far away.” I also asked, “So all those stars in the sky, do they have planets like the Earth?” I still remember this to this day. She said, “Probably. We just haven't found them yet.” And this was 1967, so they hadn't found any yet. But when I gave her eulogy a few years ago, they had found 4,000 exoplanets, so she was right. What my mom was saying in 1967, that yes, there are other worlds out there, we just haven't found them yet, was so inspiring to me. She really was the one who made me become a philosopher. I try to channel the teaching she did in raising my own kids. The answer should never be “Because I said so.” It should be “What do you think? Let's have a conversation.” We never talked baby talk to our kids because my mom never talked baby talk to me. She treated me seriously as if my opinions mattered. My mom taking me seriously as a thinker from the age at which I could talk allowed me the confidence to go forward. Even though we grew up in a blue collar family, my dad became disabled, we were poor, I went to terrible public schools for the first part of my life, I always had it better than the other kids because I had parents who believed in education and a mom who talked to me.”

Lee McIntyre is a Research Fellow at the Center for Philosophy and History of Science at Boston University and a Senior Advisor for Public Trust in Science at the Aspen Institute. He holds a B.A. from Wesleyan University and a Ph.D. in Philosophy from the University of Michigan. He has taught philosophy at Colgate University, Boston University, Tufts Experimental College, Simmons College, and Harvard Extension School (where he received the Dean’s Letter of Commendation for Distinguished Teaching). Formerly Executive Director of the Institute for Quantitative Social Science at Harvard University, he has also served as a policy advisor to the Executive Dean of the Faculty of Arts and Sciences at Harvard and as Associate Editor in the Research Department of the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston. His books include On Disinformation and How to Talk to a Science Denier and the novels The Art of Good and Evil and The Sin Eater.

https://leemcintyrebooks.com
www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/730833/on-disinformation-by-lee-mcintyre
https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262545051/
https://leemcintyrebooks.com/books/the-art-of-good-and-evil/
https://leemcintyrebooks.com/books/the-sin-eater/

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“My mother was a philosophy professor in Oxford, and when I was a kid, I would always say, if there's one thing I'll never do when I'm grown up, it's philosophy, because how can one be serious about a field where people are still arguing about the same things that they were arguing about 2,000 years ago, and there's no kind of apparent progress. But actually, the exciting thing has been that both in my kind of work in building computational language, and in my work in understanding the computational foundations of physics, that it turns out that a bunch of those things that people have been arguing about for a couple of thousand years, we can actually say some real things about.

It’s a funny thing because I've spent my life sort of building this big tower of science and technology and, every so often, something comes out of that tower that people say, "This is a cool thing, we're really going to be excited about this particular thing." For me, the whole tower is the thing that's really important. And in the future, that's what the tower that I've tried to build is certainly the most significant thing I've been able to do. And it's something that, you know, I've been able to see now over the course of half a century or so, kind of how various ideas I've had and directions I've gone have actually played out.”

Stephen Wolfram is a computer scientist, mathematician, and theoretical physicist. He is the founder and CEO of Wolfram Research, the creator of Mathematica, Wolfram|Alpha, and the Wolfram Language. He received his PhD in theoretical physics at Caltech by the age of 20 and in 1981, became the youngest recipient of a MacArthur Fellowship. Wolfram authored A New Kind of Science and launched the Wolfram Physics Project. He has pioneered computational thinking and has been responsible for many discoveries, inventions and innovations in science, technology and business.

www.stephenwolfram.com
www.wolfram.com
www.wolframalpha.com
www.wolframscience.com/nks/
www.amazon.com/dp/1579550088/ref=nosim?tag=turingmachi08-20
www.wolframphysics.org
www.wolfram-media.com/products/what-is-chatgpt-doing-and-why-does-it-work/

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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How can computational language help decode the mysteries of nature and the universe? What is ChatGPT doing and why does it work? How will AI affect education, the arts and society?

Stephen Wolfram is a computer scientist, mathematician, and theoretical physicist. He is the founder and CEO of Wolfram Research, the creator of Mathematica, Wolfram|Alpha, and the Wolfram Language. He received his PhD in theoretical physics at Caltech by the age of 20 and in 1981, became the youngest recipient of a MacArthur Fellowship. Wolfram authored A New Kind of Science and launched the Wolfram Physics Project. He has pioneered computational thinking and has been responsible for many discoveries, inventions and innovations in science, technology and business.

“My mother was a philosophy professor in Oxford, and when I was a kid, I would always say, if there's one thing I'll never do when I'm grown up, it's philosophy, because how can one be serious about a field where people are still arguing about the same things that they were arguing about 2,000 years ago, and there's no kind of apparent progress. But actually, the exciting thing has been that both in my kind of work in building computational language, and in my work in understanding the computational foundations of physics, that it turns out that a bunch of those things that people have been arguing about for a couple of thousand years, we can actually say some real things about.

It’s a funny thing because I've spent my life sort of building this big tower of science and technology and, every so often, something comes out of that tower that people say, "This is a cool thing, we're really going to be excited about this particular thing." For me, the whole tower is the thing that's really important. And in the future, that's what the tower that I've tried to build is certainly the most significant thing I've been able to do. And it's something that, you know, I've been able to see now over the course of half a century or so, kind of how various ideas I've had and directions I've gone have actually played out.”

www.stephenwolfram.com
www.wolfram.com
www.wolframalpha.com
www.wolframscience.com/nks/
www.amazon.com/dp/1579550088/ref=nosim?tag=turingmachi08-20
www.wolframphysics.org
www.wolfram-media.com/products/what-is-chatgpt-doing-and-why-does-it-work/

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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Keith Frankish is an Honorary Professor of Philosophy at the University of Sheffield, a Visiting Research Fellow with The Open University, and an Adjunct Professor with the Brain and Mind Programme in Neurosciences at the University of Crete. Frankish mainly works in the philosophy of mind and has published widely about topics such as human consciousness and cognition. Profoundly inspired by Daniel Dennett, Frankish is best known for defending an “illusionist” view of consciousness. He is also editor of the journal Illusionism as a Theory of Consciousness and co-edits, in addition to others, The Cambridge Handbook of Cognitive Science.

www.keithfrankish.com
www.cambridge.org/core/books/cambridge-handbook-of-cognitive-science/F9996E61AF5E8C0B096EBFED57596B42
www.imprint.co.uk/product/illusionism

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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Is consciousness an illusion? Is it just a complex set of cognitive processes without a central, subjective experience? How can we better integrate philosophy with everyday life and the arts?

Keith Frankish is an Honorary Professor of Philosophy at the University of Sheffield, a Visiting Research Fellow with The Open University, and an Adjunct Professor with the Brain and Mind Programme in Neurosciences at the University of Crete. Frankish mainly works in the philosophy of mind and has published widely about topics such as human consciousness and cognition. Profoundly inspired by Daniel Dennett, Frankish is best known for defending an “illusionist” view of consciousness. He is also editor of the journal Illusionism as a Theory of Consciousness and co-edits, in addition to others, The Cambridge Handbook of Cognitive Science.

www.keithfrankish.com
www.cambridge.org/core/books/cambridge-handbook-of-cognitive-science/F9996E61AF5E8C0B096EBFED57596B42www.imprint.co.uk/product/illusionism

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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“We and all living beings thrive by being actors in the planet’s regeneration, a civilizational goal that should commence and never cease. We practiced degeneration as a species and it brought us to the threshold of an unimaginable crisis. To reverse global warming, we need to reverse global degeneration.”

Can we really end the climate crisis in one generation? What kind of bold collective action, technologies, and nature-based solutions would it take to do it?

Paul Hawken is a renowned environmentalist, entrepreneur, author, and activist committed to sustainability and transforming the business-environment relationship. A leading voice in the environmental movement, he has founded successful eco-friendly businesses, authored influential works on commerce and ecology, and advised global leaders on economic and environmental policies. As the founder of Project Regeneration and Project Drawdown, Paul leads efforts to identify and model solutions to reverse global warming, showcasing actionable strategies. His pioneering work in corporate ecological reform continues to shape a sustainable future. He is the author of eight books, including Regeneration: Ending the Climate Crisis in One Generation.

https://regeneration.org
https://paulhawken.com
https://drawdown.org
https://regeneration.org/nexus

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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Can we really end the climate crisis in one generation? What kind of bold collective action, technologies, and nature-based solutions would it take to do it?

Paul Hawken is a renowned environmentalist, entrepreneur, author, and activist committed to sustainability and transforming the business-environment relationship. A leading voice in the environmental movement, he has founded successful eco-friendly businesses, authored influential works on commerce and ecology, and advised global leaders on economic and environmental policies. As the founder of Project Regeneration and Project Drawdown, Paul leads efforts to identify and model solutions to reverse global warming, showcasing actionable strategies. His pioneering work in corporate ecological reform continues to shape a sustainable future. He is the author of eight books, including Regeneration: Ending the Climate Crisis in One Generation.

“We and all living beings thrive by being actors in the planet’s regeneration, a civilizational goal that should commence and never cease. We practiced degeneration as a species and it brought us to the threshold of an unimaginable crisis. To reverse global warming, we need to reverse global degeneration.”

https://regeneration.org
https://paulhawken.com
https://drawdown.org
https://regeneration.org/nexus

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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“What we do still really, really matters in terms of defining what the future looks like. I don't think that climate change in an apocalyptic sense is a foregone conclusion. Our efforts to change that trajectory to lower emissions will change how severe the impacts are in the future. So I really want people to understand that. And I really want my kids to understand that. I also trust that I want people to understand that we might be entering an era of unprecedented change and disruption.

This is the life that we've got and I feel great sadness for the things that I know that we've lost, but younger people don't have that perspective, which in this particular context is maybe a relief, and all there is, is what's in front of them. And, there is an ample supply of natural beauty of rejuvenating resources and inspiring resources in our natural environment and in the people around us. I would just say, as we all settle into a less predictable future with all sorts of bumpy roads and rollercoaster rides, that we also stay focused on experiencing what's in the moment, in that beauty and in that community.”

Abrahm Lustgarten is an investigative reporter, author, and filmmaker whose work focuses on human adaptation to climate change. His 2010 Frontline documentary The Spill, which investigated BP’s company culture, was nominated for an Emmy. His 2015 longform series Killing the Colorado, about the draining of the Colorado river, was nominated for a Pulitzer Prize. Lustgarten is a senior reporter at ProPublica, and contributes to publications like The New York Times Magazine and The Atlantic. His research on climate migration influenced President Biden’s creation of a climate migration study group. This is also the topic of his newly published book, On The Move: The Overheating Earth and the Uprooting of America in which he explores how climate change is uprooting American lives.

https://abrahm.com
https://us.macmillan.com/books/9780374171735/onthemove

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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An estimated one in two people will experience degrading environmental conditions this century and will be faced with the difficult question of whether to leave their homes. Will you be among those who migrate in response to climate change? If so, where will you go?

Abrahm Lustgarten is an investigative reporter, author, and filmmaker whose work focuses on human adaptation to climate change. His 2010 Frontline documentary The Spill, which investigated BP’s company culture, was nominated for an Emmy. His 2015 longform series Killing the Colorado, about the draining of the Colorado river, was nominated for a Pulitzer Prize. Lustgarten is a senior reporter at ProPublica, and contributes to publications like The New York Times Magazine and The Atlantic. His research on climate migration influenced President Biden’s creation of a climate migration study group. This is also the topic of his newly published book, On The Move: The Overheating Earth and the Uprooting of America in which he explores how climate change is uprooting American lives.

“What we do still really, really matters in terms of defining what the future looks like. I don't think that climate change in an apocalyptic sense is a foregone conclusion. Our efforts to change that trajectory to lower emissions will change how severe the impacts are in the future. So I really want people to understand that. And I really want my kids to understand that. I also trust that I want people to understand that we might be entering an era of unprecedented change and disruption.

This is the life that we've got and I feel great sadness for the things that I know that we've lost, but younger people don't have that perspective, which in this particular context is maybe a relief, and all there is, is what's in front of them. And, there is an ample supply of natural beauty of rejuvenating resources and inspiring resources in our natural environment and in the people around us. I would just say, as we all settle into a less predictable future with all sorts of bumpy roads and rollercoaster rides, that we also stay focused on experiencing what's in the moment, in that beauty and in that community.”

https://abrahm.com
https://us.macmillan.com/books/9780374171735/onthemove

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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“So for me, it just kind of removing a lot of the shame and then a lot of the energy that I was wasting trying to fit myself into a neurotypical process or framework or way of thinking or being. So, you know, some people call that unmasking, just kind of removing. I was wasting a lot of energy, basically trying to be someone else and function in a different way. And then just beating myself up internally for not being able to do that. And throughout my healing journey, as I really realized, Oh, that's actually what's happening. Like there's not actually anything wrong with me being able to...That's why it's called Love Your Brain. It's not just, you know, tolerate your brain. Or, fine, you can work with this brain that you have. It's like, no, I genuinely love the weird experiences that my brain can give me and the incredibly rich, deep experience I have of the world. Like I experience nature so deeply and so intensely. I have really strong connections with animals. I have really great intuition, which I think is just from picking up all this sensory data and putting it together. All these experiences that I get to have, but I don't get to have those experiences if I'm just trying to make myself be something else, which I think is most people who are late diagnosed, I feel like that's their experience. It's just like I've been trying to be someone else for so long. It's exhausting. And then you don't have the energy then to be creative, the carving out the time, making the time to actually create.”

Mattia Maurée is an interdisciplinary composer whose work centers around themes of perception, body, sensation, trauma, and resilience. Their scores for critically acclaimed films have been played in 13 countries. Their poems have been featured in Boston City Hall as part of the Mayor's Poetry Program, Guerrilla Opera, and Arc Poetry Magazine. Mattia composes and performs on violin, voice, and piano, and has taught music for over 20 years. They have received a Master's of Music in Composition at New England Conservatory and a Bachelor's of Music from St. Olaf College. They also are an AUDHD coach, host the AuDHD Flourishing podcast and help other neurodivergent folks heal and find their creative flow in their course Love Your Brain.

http://mattiamauree.com
https://studio.com/mattia
https://mattiamauree.com/love-your-brain
https://www.audhdflourishing.com/hello

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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How can we learn to flourish because of who we are, not in spite of it? What is the sensory experience of the world for people with autism and ADHD? How can music help heal trauma and foster identity?

Mattia Maurée is an interdisciplinary composer whose work centers around themes of perception, body, sensation, trauma, and resilience. Their scores for critically acclaimed films have been played in 13 countries. Their poems have been featured in Boston City Hall as part of the Mayor's Poetry Program, Guerrilla Opera, and Arc Poetry Magazine. Mattia composes and performs on violin, voice, and piano, and has taught music for over 20 years. They have received a Master's of Music in Composition at New England Conservatory and a Bachelor's of Music from St. Olaf College. They also are an AUDHD coach, host the AuDHD Flourishing podcast and help other neurodivergent folks heal and find their creative flow in their course Love Your Brain.

“So for me, it just kind of removing a lot of the shame and then a lot of the energy that I was wasting trying to fit myself into a neurotypical process or framework or way of thinking or being. So, you know, some people call that unmasking, just kind of removing. I was wasting a lot of energy, basically trying to be someone else and function in a different way. And then just beating myself up internally for not being able to do that. And throughout my healing journey, as I really realized, Oh, that's actually what's happening. Like there's not actually anything wrong with me being able to...That's why it's called Love Your Brain. It's not just, you know, tolerate your brain. Or, fine, you can work with this brain that you have. It's like, no, I genuinely love the weird experiences that my brain can give me and the incredibly rich, deep experience I have of the world. Like I experience nature so deeply and so intensely. I have really strong connections with animals. I have really great intuition, which I think is just from picking up all this sensory data and putting it together. All these experiences that I get to have, but I don't get to have those experiences if I'm just trying to make myself be something else, which I think is most people who are late diagnosed, I feel like that's their experience. It's just like I've been trying to be someone else for so long. It's exhausting. And then you don't have the energy then to be creative, the carving out the time, making the time to actually create.”

http://mattiamauree.com
https://studio.com/mattia
https://mattiamauree.com/love-your-brain
https://www.audhdflourishing.com/hello

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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“The American Climate Corps builds on the legacy of the Civilian Conservation Corps, which came out of the New Deal after the Great Depression in the United States when the country was getting very close to there being a toppling of the government because there was such a crisis here after the Depression. There were Dust Bowls. People were migrating all over the country to try to find work. And it was a really dark time in the United States. So part of the New Deal included establishing this Conservation Corps, where–and it was only men at the time–young men could go to work, earn a liveable wage, work on teams, and help to build things in the United States. And some of them planted trees. So some of it was conservation, some of them planted trees. They helped with the railroads. They built all sorts of things with the Army Corps of Engineers. So there has been a call for a while now to build an American Climate Corps, which is building off of this legacy.
The Biden administration finally announced the American Climate Corps last September during Climate Week. In fact, the announcement came out, and one of the unfortunate things about the Climate Corps is that it builds on this amazing legacy, but it didn't receive much funding because the funding was originally going to be part of the Build Back Better Act, which the Biden administration proposed early on. The climate-related policy that ended up being reformulated and repackaged as the Inflation Reduction Act. the Climate Corps was not funded as part of that. So it's coming out in a much more limited manner, but what it basically is doing is merging a number of preexisting programs that are designed to help train young people to do work around climate change broadly defined across different agencies in the U. S. government to train them so that they have experience working on addressing climate change in a variety of ways, and also have a pathway into doing green jobs. Be they in the federal government, for nonprofits, or elsewhere in the government. And so it's a wonderful opportunity. The hope is that it will expand out to be thousands, if not more than thousands, tens of thousands of jobs.”

Dana R. Fisher is the Director of the Center for Environment, Community, & Equity and Professor in the School of International Service at American University. Fisher’s research focuses on questions related to democracy, civic engagement, activism, and climate politics. Current projects include studying political elites’ responses to climate change, and the ways federal service corps programs in the US are integrating climate into their work. She is a self-described climate-apocalyptic optimist and co-developed the framework of AnthroShift to explain how social actors are reconfigured in the aftermath of widespread perceptions and experiences of risk. Her seventh book is Saving Ourselves: From Climate Shocks to Climate Action.

https://danarfisher.com
https://cece.american.edu
www.acc.gov

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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How can we make the radical social changes needed to address the climate crisis? What kind of large ecological disaster or mass mobilization in the streets needs to take place before we take meaningful climate action?

Dana R. Fisher is the Director of the Center for Environment, Community, & Equity and Professor in the School of International Service at American University. Fisher’s research focuses on questions related to democracy, civic engagement, activism, and climate politics. Current projects include studying political elites’ responses to climate change, and the ways federal service corps programs in the US are integrating climate into their work. She is a self-described climate-apocalyptic optimist and co-developed the framework of AnthroShift to explain how social actors are reconfigured in the aftermath of widespread perceptions and experiences of risk. Her seventh book is Saving Ourselves: From Climate Shocks to Climate Action.

“The American Climate Corps builds on the legacy of the Civilian Conservation Corps, which came out of the New Deal after the Great Depression in the United States when the country was getting very close to there being a toppling of the government because there was such a crisis here after the Depression. There were Dust Bowls. People were migrating all over the country to try to find work. And it was a really dark time in the United States. So part of the New Deal included establishing this Conservation Corps, where–and it was only men at the time–young men could go to work, earn a liveable wage, work on teams, and help to build things in the United States. And some of them planted trees. So some of it was conservation, some of them planted trees. They helped with the railroads. They built all sorts of things with the Army Corps of Engineers. So there has been a call for a while now to build an American Climate Corps, which is building off of this legacy.
The Biden administration finally announced the American Climate Corps last September during Climate Week. In fact, the announcement came out, and one of the unfortunate things about the Climate Corps is that it builds on this amazing legacy, but it didn't receive much funding because the funding was originally going to be part of the Build Back Better Act, which the Biden administration proposed early on. The climate-related policy that ended up being reformulated and repackaged as the Inflation Reduction Act. the Climate Corps was not funded as part of that. So it's coming out in a much more limited manner, but what it basically is doing is merging a number of preexisting programs that are designed to help train young people to do work around climate change broadly defined across different agencies in the U. S. government to train them so that they have experience working on addressing climate change in a variety of ways, and also have a pathway into doing green jobs. Be they in the federal government, for nonprofits, or elsewhere in the government. And so it's a wonderful opportunity. The hope is that it will expand out to be thousands, if not more than thousands, tens of thousands of jobs.”

https://danarfisher.com
https://cece.american.edu
www.acc.gov

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

Credit Sarah Fillman from FillmanFoto, 2023

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“I'm inspired by a lot of young people who are in their early twenties. They're very interested in these topics. They love thrifting because it is trendy, cool, and affordable. And it's also really good for the environment. I hope that they continue to fight for what is right. I think that what's needed in today's world is that we do create more equitable models, whether it's in business or elsewhere. And that we do have some kind of respect for the planet because the reality is, if we don't, we're the ones that are going to suffer at the end of the day. It's only going to become harder for us, whether it's getting food to eat, whether it's having an environment that's comfortable and hospitable, whether it's having the supply chains we need for all the products in the world. I hope that there is a business model and a path forward, and I hope they're the trailblazers who sort of make it happen. We need to encourage that. We need to create policies that also allow for some of this stuff to flourish.”

Esha Chhabra has written for national and international publications over the last 15 years, focusing on global development, the environment, and the intersection of business and impact. Her work has been featured in The New York Times, The Economist, The Guardian, and other publications. She is the author of Working to Restore: Harnessing the Power of Business to Heal the Earth.

www.eshachhabra.comwww.beacon.org/Working-to-Restore-P2081.aspx

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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What is regenerative business? How can we create a business mindset that addresses social, economic and environmental issues?

Esha Chhabra has written for national and international publications over the last 15 years, focusing on global development, the environment, and the intersection of business and impact. Her work has been featured in The New York Times, The Economist, The Guardian, and other publications. She is the author of Working to Restore: Harnessing the Power of Business to Heal the Earth.

“I'm inspired by a lot of young people who are in their early twenties. They're very interested in these topics. They love thrifting because it is trendy, cool, and affordable. And it's also really good for the environment. I hope that they continue to fight for what is right. I think that what's needed in today's world is that we do create more equitable models, whether it's in business or elsewhere. And that we do have some kind of respect for the planet because the reality is, if we don't, we're the ones that are going to suffer at the end of the day. It's only going to become harder for us, whether it's getting food to eat, whether it's having an environment that's comfortable and hospitable, whether it's having the supply chains we need for all the products in the world. I hope that there is a business model and a path forward, and I hope they're the trailblazers who sort of make it happen. We need to encourage that. We need to create policies that also allow for some of this stuff to flourish.”

www.eshachhabra.comwww.beacon.org/Working-to-Restore-P2081.aspx

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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“I don't think universities and schools will be replaced by AI systems any more than, say, YouTube has replaced universities. I think there will always be a place for universities. As a professor and educator, I have a lot of these discussions with my colleagues. I would say it is a bit like the difference between trying to learn a language exclusively through Duolingo and actually learning a language through immersion into a linguistic community. Anyone who is serious about learning languages will tell you that nothing will replace actual immersion, and Duolingo does not compare. It could be useful to learn vocabulary, for example, but it will not replace the other important aspects of learning language. Learning in general can be like that. Having actual immersion in an educational context at the university, and interactions with educators, with a teacher, with a professor, this back-and-forth of writing essays, asking questions, receiving feedback, and being guided by an actual human being, I think people will always value that. But that's not to say that AI will not have an important role to play, and I think that educators will need to adapt and perhaps harness some of these tools for good. For example, one thing I've started doing with some of my students when it's appropriate—I did this when I taught the first class on the philosophy of AI at Columbia University—is to have some students actively use language models to generate arguments for and against a particular claim, and then in class assess the strength of these generated arguments and kind of tear them apart together to see whether we can poke holes in them. That's one way to use AI-related technology not as a substitute for critical thinking, but instead precisely as a way to stimulate the student's critical thinking skills, and to make learning interactive in a way that wouldn't be possible without using these tools.”

Dr. Raphaël Millière is Assistant Professor in Philosophy of AI at Macquarie University in Sydney, Australia. His research primarily explores the theoretical foundations and inner workings of AI systems based on deep learning, such as large language models. He investigates whether these systems can exhibit human-like cognitive capacities, drawing on theories and methods from cognitive science. He is also interested in how insights from studying AI might shed new light on human cognition. Ultimately, his work aims to advance our understanding of both artificial and natural intelligence.

https://raphaelmilliere.com
https://researchers.mq.edu.au/en/persons/raphael-milliere

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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How can we ensure that AI is aligned with human values? What can AI teach us about human cognition and creativity?

Dr. Raphaël Millière is Assistant Professor in Philosophy of AI at Macquarie University in Sydney, Australia. His research primarily explores the theoretical foundations and inner workings of AI systems based on deep learning, such as large language models. He investigates whether these systems can exhibit human-like cognitive capacities, drawing on theories and methods from cognitive science. He is also interested in how insights from studying AI might shed new light on human cognition. Ultimately, his work aims to advance our understanding of both artificial and natural intelligence.

“I don't think universities and schools will be replaced by AI systems any more than, say, YouTube has replaced universities. I think there will always be a place for universities. As a professor and educator, I have a lot of these discussions with my colleagues. I would say it is a bit like the difference between trying to learn a language exclusively through Duolingo and actually learning a language through immersion into a linguistic community. Anyone who is serious about learning languages will tell you that nothing will replace actual immersion, and Duolingo does not compare. It could be useful to learn vocabulary, for example, but it will not replace the other important aspects of learning language. Learning in general can be like that. Having actual immersion in an educational context at the university, and interactions with educators, with a teacher, with a professor, this back-and-forth of writing essays, asking questions, receiving feedback, and being guided by an actual human being, I think people will always value that. But that's not to say that AI will not have an important role to play, and I think that educators will need to adapt and perhaps harness some of these tools for good. For example, one thing I've started doing with some of my students when it's appropriate—I did this when I taught the first class on the philosophy of AI at Columbia University—is to have some students actively use language models to generate arguments for and against a particular claim, and then in class assess the strength of these generated arguments and kind of tear them apart together to see whether we can poke holes in them. That's one way to use AI-related technology not as a substitute for critical thinking, but instead precisely as a way to stimulate the student's critical thinking skills, and to make learning interactive in a way that wouldn't be possible without using these tools.”

https://raphaelmilliere.com
https://researchers.mq.edu.au/en/persons/raphael-milliere

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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“I'm so happy for young people because I think the era of having to memorize things is going to go by the wayside. I think we're going to turn into a very creative period where education becomes creative, rather than jumping through the hoops and remembering things. I'm really excited for anybody who's entering there. I was my first generation going to college. There was one that stands out by miles—a teacher I had in elementary school when I was eight. He was from Jamaica and just arrived in England. He was a jazz musician. He would start off the day playing jazz. He taught math as well, but he brought in a technique, which I still use to this day, to multiply numbers together. I've never seen it taught anywhere, it was done in some kind of slanted table. We'd done multiplication the previous year and I couldn't understand it, but he drew these tables and I thought this was just remarkable. That set me off and it showed me there was this interesting thing called jazz, and you don't have to do much to actually change a lot. Passing on some idea that might be unusual, as long as you can back it up, can have a really positive benefit going forward for future generations.”

How can physics help solve messy, real world problems? How can we embrace the possibilities of AI while limiting existential risk and abuse by bad actors?

Neil Johnson is a physics professor at George Washington University. His new initiative in Complexity and Data Science at the Dynamic Online Networks Lab combines cross-disciplinary fundamental research with data science to attack complex real-world problems. His research interests lie in the broad area of Complex Systems and ‘many-body’ out-of-equilibrium systems of collections of objects, ranging from crowds of particles to crowds of people and from environments as distinct as quantum information processing in nanostructures to the online world of collective behavior on social media. https://physics.columbian.gwu.edu/neil-johnson https://donlab.columbian.gwu.edu

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How can physics help solve messy, real world problems? How can we embrace the possibilities of AI while limiting existential risk and abuse by bad actors?

Neil Johnson is a physics professor at George Washington University. His new initiative in Complexity and Data Science at the Dynamic Online Networks Lab combines cross-disciplinary fundamental research with data science to attack complex real-world problems. His research interests lie in the broad area of Complex Systems and ‘many-body’ out-of-equilibrium systems of collections of objects, ranging from crowds of particles to crowds of people and from environments as distinct as quantum information processing in nanostructures to the online world of collective behavior on social media.

“I'm so happy for young people because I think the era of having to memorize things is going to go by the wayside. I think we're going to turn into a very creative period where education becomes creative, rather than jumping through the hoops and remembering things. I'm really excited for anybody who's entering there. I was my first generation going to college. There was one that stands out by miles—a teacher I had in elementary school when I was eight. He was from Jamaica and just arrived in England. He was a jazz musician. He would start off the day playing jazz. He taught math as well, but he brought in a technique, which I still use to this day, to multiply numbers together. I've never seen it taught anywhere, it was done in some kind of slanted table. We'd done multiplication the previous year and I couldn't understand it, but he drew these tables and I thought this was just remarkable. That set me off and it showed me there was this interesting thing called jazz, and you don't have to do much to actually change a lot. Passing on some idea that might be unusual, as long as you can back it up, can have a really positive benefit going forward for future generations.”

https://physics.columbian.gwu.edu/neil-johnsonhttps://donlab.columbian.gwu.edu

www.creativeprocess.infowww.oneplanetpodcast.org IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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“We actually do need these animals on the landscape, and we're going to protect them and restore them and help their populations increase. And so, to me, beavers are proof that what we're doing as conservationists is not futile, right? That there really is reason for hope and optimism, which beavers demonstrate. I think that's a really important lesson for young people to hear is that you're not just entering this world of eco-anxiety and climate change and depression. There are some really hopeful wildlife stories out there, and you can be part of that future.”

Ben Goldfarb is a conservation journalist. He is the author of Crossings: How Road Ecology Is Shaping The Future of Our Planet, named one of the best books of 2023 by the New York Times, and Eager: The Surprising, Secret Life of Beavers and Why They Matter, winner of the 2019 PEN/E.O. Wilson Literary Science Writing Award.

www.bengoldfarb.com
https://wwnorton.com/books/9781324005896
www.chelseagreen.com/product/eager-paperback

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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Every year, humanity's footprint casts a deadly shadow over our skies and landscapes, claiming the lives of billions of birds and other wildlife. What is road ecology? How are our roads driving certain species towards extinction? And what can we do about it?

Ben Goldfarb is a conservation journalist. He is the author of Crossings: How Road Ecology Is Shaping The Future of Our Planet, named one of the best books of 2023 by the New York Times, and Eager: The Surprising, Secret Life of Beavers and Why They Matter, winner of the 2019 PEN/E.O. Wilson Literary Science Writing Award.

“We actually do need these animals on the landscape, and we're going to protect them and restore them and help their populations increase. And so, to me, beavers are proof that what we're doing as conservationists is not futile, right? That there really is reason for hope and optimism, which beavers demonstrate. I think that's a really important lesson for young people to hear is that you're not just entering this world of eco-anxiety and climate change and depression. There are some really hopeful wildlife stories out there, and you can be part of that future.”

www.bengoldfarb.com
https://wwnorton.com/books/9781324005896
www.chelseagreen.com/product/eager-paperback

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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“Philosophy is both an academic discipline and also something that everybody does. Everybody has to have reflective views about what's significant. They also have to justify to themselves why it's significant or important. The nature of justice itself, and the various opinions that have been written about in philosophy about justice, can get to a very high level. So there's this unusual connection between philosophy and human life. We've inherited from the Middle Ages, this incredible tradition that's now developed into a chance for young people to spend four or five years, in a way, released from the pressures of life. The idea to pursue your ideas a little further in these four years you have, exempt from the pressures of social life, allows philosophy to have a kind of position unique in the academy. In confronting what the best minds in the history of the world have had to say about these issues, the hope is that they provide for the people who are privileged enough to confront philosophy a better and more thoughtful approach to these fundamental questions that everybody has to confront.”

What is the importance of philosophy in the 21st century as we enter a post-truth world? How can we reintroduce meaning and uphold moral principles in our world shaken by crises? And what does philosophy teach us about living in harmony with the natural world?

Robert Pippin is the Evelyn Stefansson Nef Distinguished Service Professor at the University of Chicago where he teaches in the College, Committee on Social Thought, and Department of Philosophy. Pippin is widely acclaimed for his scholarship in German idealism as well as later German philosophy, including publications such as Modernism as a Philosophical Problem, and Hegel’s Idealism. In keeping with his interdisciplinary interests, Pippin’s book Henry James and Modern Moral Life explores the intersections between philosophy and literature. Pippin’s most recent published book is The Culmination: Heidegger, German Idealism, and the Fate of Philosophy.

https://socialsciences.uchicago.edu/directory/Robert-Pippin
https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/C/bo208042246.html

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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What is the importance of philosophy in the 21st century as we enter a post-truth world? How can we reintroduce meaning and uphold moral principles in our world shaken by crises? And what does philosophy teach us about living in harmony with the natural world?

Robert Pippin is the Evelyn Stefansson Nef Distinguished Service Professor at the University of Chicago where he teaches in the College, Committee on Social Thought, and Department of Philosophy. Pippin is widely acclaimed for his scholarship in German idealism as well as later German philosophy, including publications such as Modernism as a Philosophical Problem, and Hegel’s Idealism. In keeping with his interdisciplinary interests, Pippin’s book Henry James and Modern Moral Life explores the intersections between philosophy and literature. Pippin’s most recent published book is The Culmination: Heidegger, German Idealism, and the Fate of Philosophy.

“Philosophy is both an academic discipline and also something that everybody does. Everybody has to have reflective views about what's significant. They also have to justify to themselves why it's significant or important. The nature of justice itself, and the various opinions that have been written about in philosophy about justice, can get to a very high level. So there's this unusual connection between philosophy and human life. We've inherited from the Middle Ages, this incredible tradition that's now developed into a chance for young people to spend four or five years, in a way, released from the pressures of life. The idea to pursue your ideas a little further in these four years you have, exempt from the pressures of social life, allows philosophy to have a kind of position unique in the academy. In confronting what the best minds in the history of the world have had to say about these issues, the hope is that they provide for the people who are privileged enough to confront philosophy a better and more thoughtful approach to these fundamental questions that everybody has to confront.”

https://socialsciences.uchicago.edu/directory/Robert-Pippin
https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/chicago/C/bo208042246.html

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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“When you're playing music with a group of people, there are those special moments when it all works, and you're in the groove. As soon as you begin to think about it, you lose it because you've introduced thought, and it's trying to take over. There's something at a lower level, a different level altogether, where all that is happening and working. And I think that's true of the whole body, that sometimes when we start thinking that introduces problems rather than solutions.”

Joseph LeDoux is a Professor of Neural Science at New York University at NYU and was Director of the Emotional Brain Institute. His research primarily focuses on survival circuits, including their impacts on emotions, such as fear and anxiety. He has written a number of books in this field, including The Four Realms of Existence: A New Theory of Being Human, The Emotional Brain, Synaptic Self, Anxious, and The Deep History of Ourselves. LeDoux is also the lead singer and songwriter of the band The Amygdaloids.

www.joseph-ledoux.com
www.cns.nyu.edu/ebi
https://amygdaloids.net
www.hup.harvard.edu/books/9780674261259

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

Music courtesy of Joseph LeDoux

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How does the brain process emotions? How are emotional memories formed and stored in the brain, and how do they influence behavior, perception, and decision-making? How does music help us understand our emotions, memories, and the nature of consciousness?

Joseph LeDoux is a Professor of Neural Science at New York University at NYU and was Director of the Emotional Brain Institute. His research primarily focuses on survival circuits, including their impacts on emotions, such as fear and anxiety. He has written a number of books in this field, including The Four Realms of Existence: A New Theory of Being Human, The Emotional Brain, Synaptic Self, Anxious, and The Deep History of Ourselves. LeDoux is also the lead singer and songwriter of the band The Amygdaloids.

“When you're playing music with a group of people, there are those special moments when it all works, and you're in the groove. As soon as you begin to think about it, you lose it because you've introduced thought, and it's trying to take over. There's something at a lower level, a different level altogether, where all that is happening and working. And I think that's true of the whole body, that sometimes when we start thinking that introduces problems rather than solutions.”

www.joseph-ledoux.com
www.cns.nyu.edu/ebi
https://amygdaloids.net
www.hup.harvard.edu/books/9780674261259

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

Music courtesy of Joseph LeDoux

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It said that people never die until the last person says their name. In memory of the writer and director Paul Auster, who passed away this week, we're sharing this conversation we had back in 2017 after the publication of his novel 4 3, 2, 1. Auster reflects on his body of work, life, and creative process.

Paul Auster was the bestselling author of Winter Journal, Sunset Park, Invisible, The Book of Illusions, and The New York Trilogy, among many other works. He has been awarded the Prince of Asturias Award for Literature, the Prix Médicis étranger, an Independent Spirit Award, and the Premio Napoli. He is a member of the American Academy of Arts and Letters, the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, and is a Commandeur de l'Ordre des Arts et des Lettres. He has also penned several screenplays for films such as Smoke (1995), as well as Lulu on the Bridge (1998) and The Inner Life of Martin Frost (2007), which he also directed.

“But what happens is a space is created. And maybe it’s the only space of its kind in the world in which two absolute strangers can meet each other on terms of absolute intimacy. I think this is what is at the heart of the experience and why once you become a reader that you want to repeat that experience, that very deep total communication with that invisible stranger who has written the book that you’re holding in your hands. And that’s why I think, in spite of everything, novels are not going to stop being written, no matter what the circumstances. We need stories. We’re all human beings, and it’s stories from the moment we’re able to talk.”

We apologize for the quality of the recording since it was not originally meant to be aired as a podcast. Portrait of Paul Auster by Mia Funk, inspired by his novel 4,3,2,1.

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“I'm also a big advocate of teaching attention training skills to kids in school. This can help them develop focus, become more self aware, better able to manage their unruly emotions, more able to tune in to those around them, and to understand that their actions matter. All of these things can be instilled in kids, and there are programs in social and emotional learning that are very good at doing this. I think it's great to give people that scaffolding for life early on. If you learn how to handle anxiety early on in life, then eco-anxiety, for example, won't be as big a problem. You'll still be able to do what needs to be done, and you'll be able to do it better because you're less anxious. You’ll have clarity and calm, which is the better state in which to be effective. I would like everyone, including young people, to remember that the classic traditional human capacities, like paying full attention to yourself and to other people, and caring about yourself and those people, matter enormously. As does spending time in nature to feel at home, to feel calm, to feel good.”

Daniel Goleman is an American psychologist, author, and science journalist. Before becoming an author, Goleman was a science reporter for the New York Times for 12 years, covering psychology and the human brain. In 1995, Goleman published Emotional Intelligence, a New York Times bestseller. In his newly published book Optimal, Daniel Goleman discusses how people can enter an optimal state of high performance without facing symptoms of burnout in the workplace.

www.danielgoleman.info
www.harpercollins.com/products/optimal-daniel-golemancary-cherniss?variant=41046795288610

www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/69105/emotional-intelligence-by-daniel-goleman/

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www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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How can we enhance our emotional intelligence and avoid burnout in a changing world? How can we regain focus and perform in an optimal state? What do we mean by ecological intelligence?

Daniel Goleman is an American psychologist, author, and science journalist. Before becoming an author, Goleman was a science reporter for the New York Times for 12 years, covering psychology and the human brain. In 1995, Goleman published Emotional Intelligence, a New York Times bestseller. In his newly published book Optimal, Daniel Goleman discusses how people can enter an optimal state of high performance without facing symptoms of burnout in the workplace.

“I'm also a big advocate of teaching attention training skills to kids in school. This can help them develop focus, become more self aware, better able to manage their unruly emotions, more able to tune in to those around them, and to understand that their actions matter. All of these things can be instilled in kids, and there are programs in social and emotional learning that are very good at doing this. I think it's great to give people that scaffolding for life early on. If you learn how to handle anxiety early on in life, then eco-anxiety, for example, won't be as big a problem. You'll still be able to do what needs to be done, and you'll be able to do it better because you're less anxious. You’ll have clarity and calm, which is the better state in which to be effective. I would like everyone, including young people, to remember that the classic traditional human capacities, like paying full attention to yourself and to other people, and caring about yourself and those people, matter enormously. As does spending time in nature to feel at home, to feel calm, to feel good.”

www.danielgoleman.info
www.harpercollins.com/products/optimal-daniel-golemancary-cherniss?variant=41046795288610

www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/69105/emotional-intelligence-by-daniel-goleman/

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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“I grew up with folktales and fairytales from the Indonesian archipelago, from the Nusantara. And of course I grew up with the stories from the Grimm brothers and Hans Christian Andersen and actually I like them better than the Disney version because they're more bloody and gory. I guessed that also shaped my preferences for more dark and gothic stories as I grew up. I did English literature at the University of Indonesia. I wrote a BA thesis on Mary Shelley's Frankenstein. And my mother was a very imaginative person. She loved making her own stories, so I think I inherit that from her. But she never had the chance to explore her creative side—there were certain expectations for women at that time to get married. She was harsh. But I know why I considered her monstrous when she was younger. She was trying to reject society's expectations in her own way, but we didn't understand her. And so I became really interested in the so-called bad women or monstrous women, in a way that these women allow me to ask questions around the structures that create them. Her whole presence taught me to really appreciate the knowledge that was created by generations of women before me. Part of the work I do now is work with a feminist collective to actually question knowledge production, who is excluded from it, who is being marginalized because of it, and my mother played a great role in steering me in that direction.”

Intan Paramaditha is a writer and an academic. Her novel The Wandering (Harvill Secker/ Penguin Random House UK), translated from the Indonesian language by Stephen J. Epstein, was nominated for the Stella Prize in Australia and awarded the Tempo Best Literary Fiction in Indonesia, English PEN Translates Award, and PEN/ Heim Translation Fund Grant from PEN America. She is the author of the short story collection Apple and Knife, the editor of Deviant Disciples: Indonesian Women Poets, part of the Translating Feminisms series of Tilted Axis Press and the co-editor of The Routledge Companion to Asian Cinemas (forthcoming 2024). Her essay, “On the Complicated Questions Around Writing About Travel,” was selected for The Best American Travel Writing 2021. She holds a Ph.D. from New York University and teaches media and film studies at Macquarie University, Sydney.

https://intanparamaditha.com
www.penguinrandomhouse.ca/books/626055/the-wandering-by-intan-paramaditha/9781787301184

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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How are writing and travel vehicles for understanding? How can we expand the literary canon to include other voices, other cultures, other experiences of the world?

Intan Paramaditha is a writer and an academic. Her novel The Wandering (Harvill Secker/ Penguin Random House UK), translated from the Indonesian language by Stephen J. Epstein, was nominated for the Stella Prize in Australia and awarded the Tempo Best Literary Fiction in Indonesia, English PEN Translates Award, and PEN/ Heim Translation Fund Grant from PEN America. She is the author of the short story collection Apple and Knife, the editor of Deviant Disciples: Indonesian Women Poets, part of the Translating Feminisms series of Tilted Axis Press and the co-editor of The Routledge Companion to Asian Cinemas (forthcoming 2024). Her essay, “On the Complicated Questions Around Writing About Travel,” was selected for The Best American Travel Writing 2021. She holds a Ph.D. from New York University and teaches media and film studies at Macquarie University, Sydney.

“I grew up with folktales and fairytales from the Indonesian archipelago, from the Nusantara. And of course I grew up with the stories from the Grimm brothers and Hans Christian Andersen and actually I like them better than the Disney version because they're more bloody and gory. I guessed that also shaped my preferences for more dark and gothic stories as I grew up. I did English literature at the University of Indonesia. I wrote a BA thesis on Mary Shelley's Frankenstein. And my mother was a very imaginative person. She loved making her own stories, so I think I inherit that from her. But she never had the chance to explore her creative side—there were certain expectations for women at that time to get married. She was harsh. But I know why I considered her monstrous when she was younger. She was trying to reject society's expectations in her own way, but we didn't understand her. And so I became really interested in the so-called bad women or monstrous women, in a way that these women allow me to ask questions around the structures that create them. Her whole presence taught me to really appreciate the knowledge that was created by generations of women before me. Part of the work I do now is work with a feminist collective to actually question knowledge production, who is excluded from it, who is being marginalized because of it, and my mother played a great role in steering me in that direction.”

https://intanparamaditha.com
www.penguinrandomhouse.ca/books/626055/the-wandering-by-intan-paramaditha/9781787301184

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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Environmentalists, writers, artists, activists, and public policy makers explore the interconnectedness of living beings and ecosystems. They highlight the importance of conservation, promote climate education, advocate for sustainable development, and underscore the vital role of creative and educational communities in driving positive change.

00:00 "The Conditional" by U.S. Poet Laureate Ada Limón

01:27 The Secret Language of Animals: Ingrid Newkirk, President of PETA

03:03 A Love Letter to the Living World: Carl Safina, Ecologist & Author

04:11 Exploring the Mysteries of Soil and Coral Reefs: Merlin Sheldrake, Biologist, Author of Entangled Life

04:47 Exploring Coral Reefs: Richard Vevers, Founder of The Ocean Agency

05:56 The Importance of Climate Education: Kathleen Rogers, President of EarthDay.org

07:02 The Timeless Wisdom of Turtles: Sy Montomery, Naturalist & Author

07:38 Optimism in the Face of Environmental Challenges: Richard Vevers

08:32 Urban Solutions for a Sustainable Future: Paula Pinho, Director, Just Transition, Consumers, Energy Efficiency & Innovation, European Commission

08:57 The Circular Economy: Walter Stahel, Founder & Director of the Product-Life Institute

09:39 The Power of Speaking Out for Sustainability: Paula Pinho

10:16 Empowering the Next Generation Through Education: Jeffrey Sachs, President of the UN Sustainable Development Solutions Network

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

www.maxrichtermusic.com
https://studiorichtermahr.com

Max Richter’s music featured in this episode are “On the Nature of Daylight” from The Blue Notebooks, “Path 19: Yet Frailest” from Sleep.

Music is courtesy of Max Richter, Universal Music Enterprises, and Mute Song.

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“As technology becomes more dominant, the arts become ever more important for us to stay in touch the things that the sciences can't tackle. What it's actually like to be a person? What's actually important? We can have this endless progress inside this capitalist machine for greater wealth and longer life and more happiness, according to some metric. Or we can try and quantify society and push it forward. Ultimately, we all have to decide what's important to us as humans, and we need the arts to help with that. So, I think what's important really is just exposing ourselves to as many different ideas as we can, being open-minded, and trying to learn about all facets of life so that we can understand each other as well. And the arts is an essential part of that.”

How is being an artist different than a machine that is programmed to perform a set of actions? How can we stop thinking about artworks as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences? In this conversation with Max Cooper, we discuss the beauty and chaos of nature and the exploration of technology music and consciousness.

Max Cooper is a musician with a PhD in computational biology. He integrates electronic music with immersive video projections inspired by scientific exploration. His latest project, Seme, commissioned by the Salzburg Easter Festival, merges Italian musical heritage with contemporary techniques, was also performed at the Barbican in London.

He supplied music for a video narrated by Greta Thunberg and Pope Francis for COP26.

In 2016, Cooper founded Mesh, a platform to explore the intersection of music, science and art. His Observatory art-house installation is on display at Kings Cross until May 1st.

https://maxcooper.net
https://osterfestspiele.at/en/programme/2024/electro-2024
https://meshmeshmesh.net
www.kingscross.co.uk/event/the-observatory

The music featured on this episode was Palestrina Sicut, Cardano Circles, Fibonacci Sequence, Scarlatti K141. Music is from Seme and is courtesy of Max Cooper.

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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How is being an artist different than a machine that is programmed to perform a set of actions? How can we stop thinking about artworks as objects, and start thinking about them as triggers for experiences? In this conversation with Max Cooper, we discuss the beauty and chaos of nature and the exploration of technology music and consciousness.

Max Cooper is a musician with a PhD in computational biology. He integrates electronic music with immersive video projections inspired by scientific exploration. His latest project, Seme, commissioned by the Salzburg Easter Festival, merges Italian musical heritage with contemporary techniques, was also performed at the Barbican in London.

He supplied music for a video narrated by Greta Thunberg and Pope Francis for COP26.

In 2016, Cooper founded Mesh, a platform to explore the intersection of music, science and art. His Observatory art-house installation is on display at Kings Cross until May 1st.

“As technology becomes more dominant, the arts become ever more important for us to stay in touch the things that the sciences can't tackle. What it's actually like to be a person? What's actually important? We can have this endless progress inside this capitalist machine for greater wealth and longer life and more happiness, according to some metric. Or we can try and quantify society and push it forward. Ultimately, we all have to decide what's important to us as humans, and we need the arts to help with that. So, I think what's important really is just exposing ourselves to as many different ideas as we can, being open-minded, and trying to learn about all facets of life so that we can understand each other as well. And the arts is an essential part of that.”

https://maxcooper.net
https://osterfestspiele.at/en/programme/2024/electro-2024
https://meshmeshmesh.net
www.kingscross.co.uk/event/the-observatory

The music featured on this episode was Palestrina Sicut, Cardano Circles, Fibonacci Sequence, Scarlatti K141. Music is from Seme and is courtesy of Max Cooper.

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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"Our brain is the organ from which our rich experience of the world arises. Brains are responsible for love, for sadness, and these profound experiences are those in which I sought to investigate."

Clayton Page Aldern is an award winning neuroscientist turned environmental journalist whose work has appeared in The Atlantic, The Guardian, The Economist, and Grist, where he is a senior data reporter. A Rhodes Scholar, he holds a Master's in Neuroscience and a Master's in Public Policy from the University of Oxford. He is also a research affiliate at the Center for Studies in Demography and Ecology at the University of Washington. He is the author of The Weight of Nature: How a Changing Climate Changes Our Minds, Brains, and Bodies, which explores the neurobiological impacts of rapid environmental change.

https://claytonaldern.com
www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/717097/the-weight-of-nature-by-clayton-page-aldern
https://csde.washington.edu

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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How does a changing climate affect our minds, brains and bodies?

Clayton Page Aldern is an award winning neuroscientist turned environmental journalist whose work has appeared in The Atlantic, The Guardian, The Economist, and Grist, where he is a senior data reporter. A Rhodes Scholar, he holds a Master's in Neuroscience and a Master's in Public Policy from the University of Oxford. He is also a research affiliate at the Center for Studies in Demography and Ecology at the University of Washington. He is the author of The Weight of Nature: How a Changing Climate Changes Our Minds, Brains, and Bodies, which explores the neurobiological impacts of rapid environmental change.

"Our brain is the organ from which our rich experience of the world arises. Brains are responsible for love, for sadness, and these profound experiences are those in which I sought to investigate."

https://claytonaldern.com
www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/717097/the-weight-of-nature-by-clayton-page-aldern
https://csde.washington.edu

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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"What saved me as a young person, I think, was how I connected with the arts. And I was exposed to this sort of world of possibility. What I hope for children is sort of courageous curiosity. I feel that they have to pursue their creative impulses, and I hope that art can inspire them to do that. That's what I always do. When I'm creating work, I always want it to be inspiring in a way. Not inspiring like a Hallmark movie, you know, like not happy, not necessarily, but provocative in a way that inspires thought, inspires creativity. So when I see young people, what I always try and encourage in them is sort of courage. Courage at facing the world, not being afraid of the world, and being. And I think that art can provide that, can bolster that courage."

Don McKellar is a highly accomplished writer, director, and actor. He has written films including Roadkill, Highway 61, Dance Me Outside, The Red Violin, and Blindness. He won the Prix de la Jeunesse at the 1988 Cannes Film Festival for his directorial debut, Last Night, which he also wrote and starred in. He is an eight-time Genie Award nominee and a two-time winner.

He wrote the book for the acclaimed musical The Drowsy Chaperone, for which he received a Tony Award. Most recently, Don served as writer, executive producer, and co-showrunner on The Sympathizer, a television adaptation of Viet Thanh Nguyen's Pulitzer Prize-winning novel of the same name. The series was co-created with Park Chan-wook.

www.imdb.com/name/nm0001528/mediaviewer/rm2411273728/?ref_=nm_ov_ph
www.imdb.com/title/tt14404618/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0_tt_8_nm_0_q_the%20sympa

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www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

Photo courtesy of HBO

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What are the stories we tell ourselves to justify our actions in times of war? How can the arts convey complexity and foster understanding?

Don McKellar is a highly accomplished writer, director, and actor. He has written films including Roadkill, Highway 61, Dance Me Outside, The Red Violin, and Blindness. He won the Prix de la Jeunesse at the 1988 Cannes Film Festival for his directorial debut, Last Night, which he also wrote and starred in. He is an eight-time Genie Award nominee and a two-time winner.

He wrote the book for the acclaimed musical The Drowsy Chaperone, for which he received a Tony Award. Most recently, Don served as writer, executive producer, and co-showrunner on The Sympathizer, a television adaptation of Viet Thanh Nguyen's Pulitzer Prize-winning novel of the same name. The series was co-created with Park Chan-wook.

"What saved me as a young person, I think, was how I connected with the arts. And I was exposed to this sort of world of possibility. What I hope for children is sort of courageous curiosity. I feel that they have to pursue their creative impulses, and I hope that art can inspire them to do that. That's what I always do. When I'm creating work, I always want it to be inspiring in a way. Not inspiring like a Hallmark movie, you know, like not happy, not necessarily, but provocative in a way that inspires thought, inspires creativity. So when I see young people, what I always try and encourage in them is sort of courage. Courage at facing the world, not being afraid of the world, and being. And I think that art can provide that, can bolster that courage."

www.imdb.com/name/nm0001528/mediaviewer/rm2411273728/?ref_=nm_ov_ph
www.imdb.com/title/tt14404618/?ref_=nv_sr_srsg_0_tt_8_nm_0_q_the%20sympa
www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

Photos courtesy of HBO
Susan Downey, Robert Downey Jr., Don McKellar
Robert Downey Jr. in The Sympathizer, photo by Beth Dubber/HBO
Hoa Xuande in The Sympathizer, photo by Hopper Stone/HBO

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"S. E. Hinton, Susie Hinton wrote The Outsiders when she was 15 and 16. It was published when she was 17. She was told by one editor in particular that she couldn't have any swear words, so she was sort of forced to write about these very big, intense, love-and-death operatic themes where there's a boy who dies by suicide by cop. There's a boy who dies from a fire. So it's about grief. His parents die in a car crash prior to all that. There's this hugely stacked deck of grief that exists in the novel. But when you read the novel, there's a very sweet and loving tone to it. So when I started working on it, I recall childhood in Joliet, Illinois. My mom was a single parent, and she raised three kids on her own on a nurse's salary. So I had to give myself permission to take her great dark themes and actions that are in her novel and like give language to it that was also from an adult world.

Right now, live theater is probably much different than looking at a screen. It's much different than looking at your computer or your Game Boy or whatever. I see grown men on the subway playing video games on their phones. And we're not even looking at each other on the subways anymore. We're like deep in our in a screen. And I wonder what that's done. And so I think theater actually has a powerful ability to rewire us to the human experience. And maybe because of it, maybe we can find more empathy or more capacity toward kindness."

Dan Futterman is creator, executive producer, and writer of Amazon Prime's American Rust, the acclaimed crime drama starring Jeff Daniels, Maura Tierney, and David Alvarez. Previously, Dan has written screenplays for Capote, Foxcatcher, In Treatment, and Gracepoint. He served as executive producer on The Looming Tower. Dan is also an actor, director, and two-time Oscar nominee.

Adam Rapp is the executive producer and writer of American Rust. He has written plays, films, and series, including Red Light Winter, The Sound Inside, In Treatment, Blackbird, The Looming Tower, and Dexter: New Blood. His latest novel is Wolf at the Table. He recently wrote the book for the new Broadway musical, The Outsiders.

www.imdb.com/name/nm0001246
www.imdb.com/name/nm1452688/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1
www.imdb.com/title/tt1532495/
https://outsidersmusical.com/
www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/adam-rapp/wolf-at-the-table/9780316434164/?lens=little-brown

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www.oneplanetpodcast.org
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What role do the families we’re born into or the traumas we experience shape the people we become? Do good deeds offset bad deeds? How can the arts increase our capacity for empathy, understanding, and kindness?

Dan Futterman is creator, executive producer, and writer of Amazon Prime's American Rust, the acclaimed crime drama starring Jeff Daniels, Maura Tierney, and David Alvarez. Previously, Dan has written screenplays for Capote, Foxcatcher, In Treatment, and Gracepoint. He served as executive producer on The Looming Tower. Dan is also an actor, director, and two-time Oscar nominee.

Adam Rapp is the executive producer and writer of American Rust. He has written plays, films, and series, including Red Light Winter, The Sound Inside, In Treatment, Blackbird, The Looming Tower, and Dexter: New Blood. His latest novel is Wolf at the Table. He recently wrote the book for the new Broadway musical, The Outsiders.

"S. E. Hinton, Susie Hinton wrote The Outsiders when she was 15 and 16. It was published when she was 17. She was told by one editor in particular that she couldn't have any swear words, so she was sort of forced to write about these very big, intense, love-and-death operatic themes where there's a boy who dies by suicide by cop. There's a boy who dies from a fire. So it's about grief. His parents die in a car crash prior to all that. There's this hugely stacked deck of grief that exists in the novel. But when you read the novel, there's a very sweet and loving tone to it. So when I started working on it, I recall childhood in Joliet, Illinois. My mom was a single parent, and she raised three kids on her own on a nurse's salary. So I had to give myself permission to take her great dark themes and actions that are in her novel and like give language to it that was also from an adult world.

Right now, live theater is probably much different than looking at a screen. It's much different than looking at your computer or your Game Boy or whatever. I see grown men on the subway playing video games on their phones. And we're not even looking at each other on the subways anymore. We're like deep in our in a screen. And I wonder what that's done. And so I think theater actually has a powerful ability to rewire us to the human experience. And maybe because of it, maybe we can find more empathy or more capacity toward kindness."

www.imdb.com/name/nm0001246
www.imdb.com/name/nm1452688/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1
www.imdb.com/title/tt1532495/
https://outsidersmusical.com/
www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/adam-rapp/wolf-at-the-table/9780316434164/?lens=little-brown

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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“What I think will stay with you for an entire lifetime is to be equipped with the capacity and the tools to find wonder in the world. And that is to find a language for that world, which is supplied through a folk tale, mythology, literature, poetry, and song. And then to also to have the kind of knowledge basis. I still think we suffer from this terrible division between the humanities and the sciences. These two worlds are sundered. I think we need to bring them together. Anybody who has for a moment studied the operations of photosynthesis in a plan or capillary action in trees is just astonished by the miracle of these operations. So I think we need to infuse a kind of a syncretic knowledge, but that would have as its central or its core point of value a rediscovery of wonder in the world. And of course, a world that you wonder at is a world that you cherish and a world that you cherish is a world that you want to preserve. And that, I think, is our only hope.”

Michael Cronin is an Irish academic specialist in culture, travel literature, translation studies, and the Irish language. He has taught in universities in France and Ireland and has held visiting research fellowships to universities in Canada, Belgium, Peru, France, and Egypt. He's a fellow of Trinity College Dublin, an elected member of the Royal Irish Academy, and a senior researcher in the Trinity Centre for Literary and Cultural Translation. He is the current holder of the Chair of French (est. 1776) at TCD. He is the author of Eco-Travel: Journeying in the Age of the Anthropocene, Eco-Translation: Translation and Ecology in the Age of the Anthropocene, and other books.

www.tcd.ie/French/people/michaelcronin.php
www.cambridge.org/core/books/ecotravel/24263DF8E2E021915FEF4F937F146D25
www.routledge.com/Eco-Translation-Translation-and-Ecology-in-the-Age-of-the-Anthropocene/Cronin/p/book/9781138916845

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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How has tourism and writing about travel contributed to the ecological degradation of the planet?How does language influence perception and our relationship to the more-than-human world?

Michael Cronin is an Irish academic specialist in culture, travel literature, translation studies, and the Irish language. He has taught in universities in France and Ireland and has held visiting research fellowships to universities in Canada, Belgium, Peru, France, and Egypt. He's a fellow of Trinity College Dublin, an elected member of the Royal Irish Academy, and a senior researcher in the Trinity Centre for Literary and Cultural Translation. He is the current holder of the Chair of French (est. 1776) at TCD. He is the author of Eco-Travel: Journeying in the Age of the Anthropocene, Eco-Translation: Translation and Ecology in the Age of the Anthropocene, and other books.

“What I think will stay with you for an entire lifetime is to be equipped with the capacity and the tools to find wonder in the world. And that is to find a language for that world, which is supplied through a folk tale, mythology, literature, poetry, and song. And then to also to have the kind of knowledge basis. I still think we suffer from this terrible division between the humanities and the sciences. These two worlds are sundered. I think we need to bring them together. Anybody who has for a moment studied the operations of photosynthesis in a plan or capillary action in trees is just astonished by the miracle of these operations. So I think we need to infuse a kind of a syncretic knowledge, but that would have as its central or its core point of value a rediscovery of wonder in the world. And of course, a world that you wonder at is a world that you cherish and a world that you cherish is a world that you want to preserve. And that, I think, is our only hope.”

www.tcd.ie/French/people/michaelcronin.php
www.cambridge.org/core/books/ecotravel/24263DF8E2E021915FEF4F937F146D25
www.routledge.com/Eco-Translation-Translation-and-Ecology-in-the-Age-of-the-Anthropocene/Cronin/p/book/9781138916845

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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"I think it's really a crossroads between knowledge and wisdom. And I think that wisdom for me is so connected to nature and the information that we get from nature. We ultimately are part of the natural world. And the knowledge of knowing things and facts and these kinds of bits of information doesn't necessarily mean that we are going in the right direction that we know things. In this space, a lot of wisdom is being lost... About being connected to an earlier time. I feel that that's true. Language is being diminished. There's so many things that are being diminished in this moment. And yet, we're creating something that is going to have vastly more knowledge. But this is where it splits. And what is the idea of consciousness? Is wisdom something that's external? Is it something that is more related to quantum physics and the quantum world, more than just the physical body and the physical brain?"

Dustin O’Halloran is a pianist and composer and member of the band A Winged Victory for the Sullen. Winner of a 2015 Emmy Award for his main title theme to Amazon's comedy drama Transparent, he was also nominated for an Oscar, a Golden Globe, and a BAFTA for his score for Lion, written in collaboration with Volker Bertelmann (aka Hauschka). He has composed for Wayne McGregor (The Royal Ballet, London), Sofia Coppola’s Marie Antoinette, Ammonite starring Kate Winslet, and The Essex Serpent starring Claire Danes. He produced Katy Perry’s “Into Me You See” from her album Witness and appears on Leonard Cohen’s 2019 posthumous album Thanks For The Dance. With six solo albums under his name, his latest album 1 0 0 1, which explores ideas of technology, humanity and mind-body dualism, is available on Deutsche Grammophon.

https://dustinohalloran.com/
www.deutschegrammophon.com/en/artists/dustin-o-halloran
www.imdb.com/name/nm0641169/bio/?ref_=nm_ov_bio_sm

Music courtesy of Dustin O’Halloran and Deutsche Grammophon

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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What will happen when Artificial General Intelligence arrives? What is the nature of consciousness? How are music and creativity pathways for reconnecting us to our humanity and the natural world?

Dustin O’Halloran is a pianist and composer and member of the band A Winged Victory for the Sullen. Winner of a 2015 Emmy Award for his main title theme to Amazon's comedy drama Transparent, he was also nominated for an Oscar, a Golden Globe, and a BAFTA for his score for Lion, written in collaboration with Volker Bertelmann (aka Hauschka). He has composed for Wayne McGregor (The Royal Ballet, London), Sofia Coppola’s Marie Antoinette, Ammonite starring Kate Winslet, and The Essex Serpent starring Claire Danes. He produced Katy Perry’s “Into Me You See” from her album Witness and appears on Leonard Cohen’s 2019 posthumous album Thanks For The Dance. With six solo albums under his name, his latest album 1 0 0 1, which explores ideas of technology, humanity and mind-body dualism, is available on Deutsche Grammophon.

"I think it's really a crossroads between knowledge and wisdom. And I think that wisdom for me is so connected to nature and the information that we get from nature. We ultimately are part of the natural world. And the knowledge of knowing things and facts and these kinds of bits of information doesn't necessarily mean that we are going in the right direction that we know things. In this space, a lot of wisdom is being lost... About being connected to an earlier time. I feel that that's true. Language is being diminished. There's so many things that are being diminished in this moment. And yet, we're creating something that is going to have vastly more knowledge. But this is where it splits. And what is the idea of consciousness? Is wisdom something that's external? Is it something that is more related to quantum physics and the quantum world, more than just the physical body and the physical brain?"

https://dustinohalloran.com/
www.deutschegrammophon.com/en/artists/dustin-o-halloran
www.imdb.com/name/nm0641169/bio/?ref_=nm_ov_bio_sm

Music courtesy of Dustin O’Halloran and Deutsche Grammophon

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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"The habits of deep reading are themselves the most tangible expression of the virtues. In that sense, the virtue of industry is the one that I still take with me. So many of the Founders did, too. They fell short of so many virtues, as we all do every day. But it was the habits of deep reading and writing, keeping up a consistent daily schedule, and setting aside time for deep reading and writing that they maintained until the end of their lives."

Jeffrey Rosen is President and CEO of the National Constitution Center, where he hosts We the People, a weekly podcast of constitutional debate. He is also a professor of law at the George Washington University Law School and a contributing editor at The Atlantic. Rosen is a graduate of Harvard College, Oxford University, and Yale Law School. He is the author of seven previous books, including the New York Times bestseller Conversations with RBG: Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg on Life, Love, Liberty, and Law. His essays and commentaries have appeared in The New York Times Magazine; on NPR; in The New Republic, where he was the legal affairs editor; and in The New Yorker, where he has been a staff writer. His latest book is The Pursuit of Happiness: How Classical Writers on Virtue Inspired the Lives of the Founders and Defined America.

https://constitutioncenter.org/about/board-of-trustees/jeffrey-rosen
www.simonandschuster.com/books/The-Pursuit-of-Happiness/Jeffrey-Rosen/9781668002476
https://constitutioncenter.org/news-debate/podcasts

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What is the true meaning of the pursuit of happiness? What can we learn from the Founding Fathers about achieving harmony, balance, tranquility, self-mastery, and pursuing the public good?

Jeffrey Rosen is President and CEO of the National Constitution Center, where he hosts We the People, a weekly podcast of constitutional debate. He is also a professor of law at the George Washington University Law School and a contributing editor at The Atlantic. Rosen is a graduate of Harvard College, Oxford University, and Yale Law School. He is the author of seven previous books, including the New York Times bestseller Conversations with RBG: Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg on Life, Love, Liberty, and Law. His essays and commentaries have appeared in The New York Times Magazine; on NPR; in The New Republic, where he was the legal affairs editor; and in The New Yorker, where he has been a staff writer. His latest book is The Pursuit of Happiness: How Classical Writers on Virtue Inspired the Lives of the Founders and Defined America.

"The habits of deep reading are themselves the most tangible expression of the virtues. In that sense, the virtue of industry is the one that I still take with me. So many of the Founders did, too. They fell short of so many virtues, as we all do every day. But it was the habits of deep reading and writing, keeping up a consistent daily schedule, and setting aside time for deep reading and writing that they maintained until the end of their lives."

https://constitutioncenter.org/about/board-of-trustees/jeffrey-rosen
www.simonandschuster.com/books/The-Pursuit-of-Happiness/Jeffrey-Rosen/9781668002476
https://constitutioncenter.org/news-debate/podcasts

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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"I felt so grateful to be working on content that had the question of consent and open conversation at its core, particularly on the show Sex Education, from my very first conversation with Ben Taylor and Jon Jennings. It's a young cast exploring in-depth, intimate content, and they're saying, we know that we need to be able to really support our young cast. They came to me, and then I shared how we could journey through that. So there was a real awareness of intention to take care, understanding of the challenges of working with such exposing intimate scenes."

Ita O’Brien is the UK’s leading Intimacy Coordinator, founder of Intimacy on Set (and author of the Intimacy On Set Guidelines). Her company, set up in 2018 provides services to TV, film, and theatre when dealing with intimacy, and is a SAG-Aftra accredited training provider of Intimacy Practitioners. Intimacy on Set has supported numerous high-profile film and TV productions including Normal People & Conversations With Friends (BBC3/Hulu), Sex Education 1&2 (Netflix), I May Destroy You (BBC/HBO), It’s A Sin (Channel 4), (Neal Street Prods / Searchlight Pictures).
https://www.itaobrien.com/
https://www.itaobrien.com/intimacy-on-set-guidelines.html
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm1357677/

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www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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How can intimate scenes be brought to the screen in ways that respect the emotional well-being and privacy of the artists themselves? How do we make sure that we can create a story about abuse without anyone being abused in the process?

Ita O’Brien is the UK’s leading Intimacy Coordinator, founder of Intimacy on Set (and author of the Intimacy On Set Guidelines). Her company, set up in 2018 provides services to TV, film, and theatre when dealing with intimacy, and is a SAG-Aftra accredited training provider of Intimacy Practitioners. Intimacy on Set has supported numerous high-profile film and TV productions including Normal People & Conversations With Friends (BBC3/Hulu), Sex Education 1&2 (Netflix), I May Destroy You (BBC/HBO), It’s A Sin (Channel 4), (Neal Street Prods / Searchlight Pictures).

"I felt so grateful to be working on content that had the question of consent and open conversation at its core, particularly on the show Sex Education, from my very first conversation with Ben Taylor and Jon Jennings. It's a young cast exploring in-depth, intimate content, and they're saying, we know that we need to be able to really support our young cast. They came to me, and then I shared how we could journey through that. So there was a real awareness of intention to take care, understanding of the challenges of working with such exposing intimate scenes."

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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"I had a good friend in college who was from Kuwait, and I loved learning about her culture. If all your friends are just your same age, your same sex, your same socioeconomic group, your same race, and your same language, that's not going to broaden you very well. I feel that way when I cross species divides, too, and just start to learn, well, what's it like to be you?"

Author Sy Montgomery and illustrator Matt Patterson are naturalists, adventurers, and creative collaborators. Montgomery has published over thirty acclaimed nonfiction books for adults and children and received numerous honors, including lifetime achievement awards from the Humane Society and the New England Booksellers Association.

Patterson’s illustrations have been featured in several books and magazines, such as Yankee Magazine and Fine Art Connoisseur. He is the recipient of Roger Tory Peterson Wild American Art Award, National Outdoor Book Award for Nature and the Environment, and other honors. Most recently, Patterson provided illustrations for Freshwater Fish of the Northeast.

Their joint books are Of Time and Turtles: Mending the World, Shell by Shattered Shell and The Book of the Turtle. Montgomery’s other books include The Soul of an Octopus, The Hawk’s Way and The Secrets of the Octopus (published in conjunction with a National Geographic TV series).

www.mpattersonart.com
https://symontgomery.com
www.harpercollins.com/products/of-time-and-turtles-sy-montgomery?variant=41003864817698
www.harpercollins.com/products/the-book-of-turtles-sy-montgomery?variant=40695888609314
https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/distributed/F/bo215806915.html

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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What can turtles teach us about time, patience, and wisdom? What can we learn about the mysteries of consciousness by observing animals? How can we open our senses and embrace the interconnectedness of all life on Earth?

Author Sy Montgomery and illustrator Matt Patterson are naturalists, adventurers, and creative collaborators. Montgomery has published over thirty acclaimed nonfiction books for adults and children and received numerous honors, including lifetime achievement awards from the Humane Society and the New England Booksellers Association.

Patterson’s illustrations have been featured in several books and magazines, such as Yankee Magazine and Fine Art Connoisseur. He is the recipient of Roger Tory Peterson Wild American Art Award, National Outdoor Book Award for Nature and the Environment, and other honors. Most recently, Patterson provided illustrations for Freshwater Fish of the Northeast.

Their joint books are Of Time and Turtles: Mending the World, Shell by Shattered Shell and The Book of the Turtle. Montgomery’s other books include The Soul of an Octopus, The Hawk’s Way and The Secrets of the Octopus (published in conjunction with a National Geographic TV series).

"I had a good friend in college who was from Kuwait, and I loved learning about her culture. If all your friends are just your same age, your same sex, your same socioeconomic group, your same race, and your same language, that's not going to broaden you very well. I feel that way when I cross species divides, too, and just start to learn, well, what's it like to be you?"

www.mpattersonart.com
https://symontgomery.com
www.harpercollins.com/products/of-time-and-turtles-sy-montgomery?variant=41003864817698
www.harpercollins.com/products/the-book-of-turtles-sy-montgomery?variant=40695888609314
https://press.uchicago.edu/ucp/books/book/distributed/F/bo215806915.html

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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“And so I teach young people, and I find it immensely gratifying to do so, especially for those who've already found writing in their blood so young. I say, ‘Do you know how lucky you are to have found something that makes you feel so alive this early in your life? People live whole lives and never find it.’ ”

Andre Dubus III’s nine books include the New York Times’ bestsellers House of Sand and Fog, The Garden of Last Days, and his memoir, Townie. His work has been included in The Best American Essays and The Best Spiritual Writing anthologies. His novel, House of Sand and Fog was a finalist for the National Book Award and was made into an Academy Award-nominated film starring Ben Kingsley and Jennifer Connelly. His most recent books are the novel, Such Kindness and a collection of personal essays, Ghost Dogs: On Killers and Kin.
Dubus has been a finalist for the National Book Award, and has been awarded a Guggenheim Fellowship, The National Magazine Award for Fiction, two Pushcart Prizes, and is a recipient of an American Academy of Arts and Letters Award in Literature. His books are published in over twenty-five languages, and he teaches at the University of Massachusetts Lowell.

www.andredubus.com
www.andredubus.com/ghost-dogs
www.andredubus.com/house-of-sand-and-fog
www.andredubus.com/such-kindness

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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What can reading teach us about loss, healing, and survival? How can we transform anger into empathy? What can we learn from the creative act about turning personal setbacks into opportunities for self-discovery and growth?

Andre Dubus III’s nine books include the New York Times’ bestsellers House of Sand and Fog, The Garden of Last Days, and his memoir, Townie. His work has been included in The Best American Essays and The Best Spiritual Writing anthologies. His novel, House of Sand and Fog was a finalist for the National Book Award and was made into an Academy Award-nominated film starring Ben Kingsley and Jennifer Connelly. His most recent books are the novel, Such Kindness and a collection of personal essays, Ghost Dogs: On Killers and Kin.
Dubus has been a finalist for the National Book Award, and has been awarded a Guggenheim Fellowship, The National Magazine Award for Fiction, two Pushcart Prizes, and is a recipient of an American Academy of Arts and Letters Award in Literature. His books are published in over twenty-five languages, and he teaches at the University of Massachusetts Lowell.

“And so I teach young people, and I find it immensely gratifying to do so, especially for those who've already found writing in their blood so young. I say, "Do you know how lucky you are to have found something that makes you feel so alive this early in your life? People live whole lives and never find it.”

www.andredubus.com
www.andredubus.com/ghost-dogs
www.andredubus.com/house-of-sand-and-fog
www.andredubus.com/such-kindness

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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"You have the brain, and you have the heart, and you cannot feed only the brain without feeding the heart. So feeding the heart means creating authentic relations between people and educating children to have compassion, empathy, and respect for others, nature, animals, and other human beings. I'm a bit afraid that today we feed only the brain and not the heart. And when we want to put these Neuralink implants in the brain, we forget that there is the heart where maybe we should also work a little bit more."

Bertrand Piccard is a notable Swiss environmentalist, explorer, author, and psychiatrist. His ventures include being the first to travel around the world in a non-stop balloon flight and years later in a solar-powered airplane. He is regarded as a pioneer in clean technology. Piccard is also the founder of the Solar Impulse Foundation, which has identified over 1500 actionable and profitable climate solutions and connects them with investors. As a UN Ambassador for the Environment, his goal is to convince leaders of the viability of a zero-carbon economy, which he will demonstrate via his next emission-free project Climate Impulse, a green hydrogen-powered airplane that can fly nonstop around the earth.

http://www.solarimpulse.com
https://climateimpulse.org/
https://bertrandpiccard.com/

Photos:
Bertrand Piccard with Ilham Kadri, CEO Syensqo (main technological partner of Climate Impulse)
Bertrand Piccard @ Solar Impulse, Jean Revillard

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What is the future of green aviation? How do we share environmental solutions to unite people and change the climate narrative from sacrifice and fear to enthusiasm and hope?

Bertrand Piccard is a notable Swiss environmentalist, explorer, author, and psychiatrist. His ventures include being the first to travel around the world in a non-stop balloon flight and years later in a solar-powered airplane. He is regarded as a pioneer in clean technology. Piccard is also the founder of the Solar Impulse Foundation, which has identified over 1500 actionable and profitable climate solutions and connects them with investors. As a UN Ambassador for the Environment, his goal is to convince leaders of the viability of a zero-carbon economy, which he will demonstrate via his next emission-free project Climate Impulse, a green hydrogen-powered airplane that can fly nonstop around the earth.

"You have the brain, and you have the heart, and you cannot feed only the brain without feeding the heart. So feeding the heart means creating authentic relations between people and educating children to have compassion, empathy, and respect for others, nature, animals, and other human beings. I'm a bit afraid that today we feed only the brain and not the heart. And when we want to put these Neuralink implants in the brain, we forget that there is the heart where maybe we should also work a little bit more."

http://www.solarimpulse.com
https://climateimpulse.org/
https://bertrandpiccard.com/

Photos:
COPSummit
Bertrand Piccard with Simon Stiell, Executive Secretary of the UNFCCC
Ville de Demain exhibition, Cité des sciences et de l'industrie, Paris

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"As long as your children believe your traditions are a good way to be human on Earth, they will continue to be like you. And your society and your civilization will continue. But the moment they see a better and more efficient way to do things, they will no longer believe in your ways, and your traditions will collapse in a whisper.

I think what is very, very important for the young generations - because they hear every day and everywhere that this is the end of our world because of many things, particularly about the question of climate change - and we must tell young generations, first of all, we don't know anything about the future. Maybe the future is incredibly nice. Incredibly nice, because we are going to have at a certain moment absolute energy, the ability to travel anywhere in space, the ability to colonize any satellite in our solar system, and maybe with no more any kind of fitness, no more cancer, nothing else. So the future can be bright and incredible. And the young generations should keep in mind that they are on a magical planet which is full of beauty and they must love it and preserve it as best as they can with hope."

Ludovic Slimak is a paleoanthropologist at the University of Toulouse in France and Director of the Grotte Mandrin research project. His work focuses on the last Neanderthal societies, and he is the author of several hundred scientific studies on these populations. His research has been featured in Nature, Science, the New York Times, and other publications. He is the author of The Naked Neanderthal: A New Understanding of the Human Creature.

http://ww5.pegasusbooks.com/books/the-naked-neanderthal-9781639366163-hardcover
https://lampea.cnrs.fr/spip.php?article3767
www.odilejacob.fr/catalogue/sciences-humaines/archeologie-paleontologie-prehistoire/dernier-neandertalien_9782415004927.php

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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Who were the Neanderthals? And what can our discoveries about them teach us about intelligence, our extractivist relationship to the planet, and what it means to be human?

Ludovic Slimak is a paleoanthropologist at the University of Toulouse in France and Director of the Grotte Mandrin research project. His work focuses on the last Neanderthal societies, and he is the author of several hundred scientific studies on these populations. His research has been featured in Nature, Science, the New York Times, and other publications. He is the author of The Naked Neanderthal: A New Understanding of the Human Creature.

"As long as your children believe your traditions are a good way to be human on Earth, they will continue to be like you. And your society and your civilization will continue. But the moment they see a better and more efficient way to do things, they will no longer believe in your ways, and your traditions will collapse in a whisper.

I think what is very, very important for the young generations - because they hear every day and everywhere that this is the end of our world because of many things, particularly about the question of climate change - and we must tell young generations, first of all, we don't know anything about the future. Maybe the future is incredibly nice. Incredibly nice, because we are going to have at a certain moment absolute energy, the ability to travel anywhere in space, the ability to colonize any satellite in our solar system, and maybe with no more any kind of fitness, no more cancer, nothing else. So the future can be bright and incredible. And the young generations should keep in mind that they are on a magical planet which is full of beauty and they must love it and preserve it as best as they can with hope."

http://ww5.pegasusbooks.com/books/the-naked-neanderthal-9781639366163-hardcover
https://lampea.cnrs.fr/spip.php?article3767
www.odilejacob.fr/catalogue/sciences-humaines/archeologie-paleontologie-prehistoire/dernier-neandertalien_9782415004927.php

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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"I started as a scholar of English literature in particular. And then I realized I didn't like boundaries. I've always tried to explore other domains and areas of knowledge. So I moved on to the relationship between literature and science because what has always fascinated me is how science is written, circulated, and understood and how science is popularized and narrativized. The Role of Utopian Studies in Sustainability led me straight to sustainability and to envision possible future societies. For example, the sciences and the humanities coexist and thrive on and sustain each other. And if you think about the best or the worst possible futures, then after a while, you come to think about whether futures may be sustainable or not. More importantly, we should try to envision ways of living in the future that may be acceptable and, above all, enjoyable for everyone."

Paola Spinozzi is Professor of English Literature at the University of Ferrara and currently serves as Pro-Vice-Chancellor for Internationalisation. She is the coordinator of the PhD Programme in Environmental Sustainability and Wellbeing and the co-coordinator of Routes towards Sustainability. Her research encompasses the ecological humanities and ecocriticism, utopia and sustainability; literature and the visual arts; literature and science; cultural memory. She has co-edited Cultures of Sustainability and Wellbeing: Theories, Histories and Policies and published on post/apocalyptic and climate fiction, nature poetry, eco-theatre; art and aesthetics, imperialism and evolutionism in utopia as a genre; the writing of science; interart creativity.

https://docente.unife.it/paola.spinozzi https://www.unife.it/studenti/dottorato/it/corsi/riforma/environmental-sustainability-and-wellbeing
https://www.routesnetwork.net
https://www.routledge.com/Cultures-of-Sustainability-and-Wellbeing-Theories-Histories-and-Policies/Spinozzi-Mazzanti/p/book/9780367271190.

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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How can we create positive change? What does it mean to have an ecological mind? How can interdisciplinary collaborations help us move beyond educational silos and create sustainable futures?

Paola Spinozzi is Professor of English Literature at the University of Ferrara and currently serves as Pro-Vice-Chancellor for Internationalisation. She is the coordinator of the PhD Programme in Environmental Sustainability and Wellbeing and the co-coordinator of Routes towards Sustainability. Her research encompasses the ecological humanities and ecocriticism, utopia and sustainability; literature and the visual arts; literature and science; cultural memory. She has co-edited Cultures of Sustainability and Wellbeing: Theories, Histories and Policies and published on post/apocalyptic and climate fiction, nature poetry, eco-theatre; art and aesthetics, imperialism and evolutionism in utopia as a genre; the writing of science; interart creativity.

"I started as a scholar of English literature in particular. And then I realized I didn't like boundaries. I've always tried to explore other domains and areas of knowledge. So I moved on to the relationship between literature and science because what has always fascinated me is how science is written, circulated, and understood and how science is popularized and narrativized. The Role of Utopian Studies in Sustainability led me straight to sustainability and to envision possible future societies. For example, the sciences and the humanities coexist and thrive on and sustain each other. And if you think about the best or the worst possible futures, then after a while, you come to think about whether futures may be sustainable or not. More importantly, we should try to envision ways of living in the future that may be acceptable and, above all, enjoyable for everyone."

https://docente.unife.it/paola.spinozzi https://www.unife.it/studenti/dottorato/it/corsi/riforma/environmental-sustainability-and-wellbeing
https://www.routesnetwork.net
https://www.routledge.com/Cultures-of-Sustainability-and-Wellbeing-Theories-Histories-and-Policies/Spinozzi-Mazzanti/p/book/9780367271190.

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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How would the life of Jesus be told through the eyes of his mother? How can literature help us understand history and the nature of identity?

Maciej Hen was born in 1955 in Warsaw. He graduated from the Cinematography Department at the Film School in Łódź. For years he has been trying his hand at diverse activities, from music to all fields of journalism and television lighting design. As a prose writer, Hen has published four novels so far: Według niej (2004, DUE; the English translation, According to Her, published in 2022 by Holland House Books, was shortlisted to the EBRD Literary Prize in 2023), Solfatara (2015, W.A.B., 2016 Gombrowicz Prize and shortlisted for the Norwid Prize and the Angelus Prize), Deutsch dla średnio zaawansowanych, Segretario and one non-fiction book, Beatlesi w Polsce (The Beatles in Poland).

"Polish intellectuals, artists, and writers are still in that never-ending argument on Polish history in terms of why Poland lost its independence after being some kind of empire and what the injustices and historical harms were. The traumas of World War II and the period before WWII, the Communist period, and everything of that nature are topics of argument that are really present in Polish culture, creativity, and literature. On the other hand, contemporary Polish literature is very much form-oriented, not so much content-oriented, except for some topics focusing on the peasant background of the society or discussing injustices the peasant class suffered, and that's it. But generally, contemporary Polish literature is very much language-oriented. There is a race towards experimentalism to be observed. And I, quite frankly, try to be beyond all of that because I'm a content-oriented type of writer. Of course, the language issues are important for me, too, but not dominant."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maciej_Hen
www.hhousebooks.com/shortlisted-ebrd-according-to-her
www.wydawnictwoliterackie.pl/autor/1271/maciej-hen
https://www.instagram.com/maciej.hen/
www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100064871385361
www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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"My favorite teacher was in second grade. I had a teacher named Mrs. Abo who let me write all my homework assignments in rhyme. And it was like such a simple thing. I asked her if I could write all my homework assignments in rhyme. And she said, "Absolutely!" And she gave me permission to be wildly creative while still doing my work. And little moments like that can really change a kid's life. And I lobbied with this group called the Creative Coalition. We went and lobbied in DC to really fight for the arts being added to the STEM programs to make them STEAM programs because they're so interconnected. It's creative imagination that got us to the moon. It's science fiction stories that are getting us to Mars. It's like that. You know, playing the piano helps you in math. It's all part of the beautiful development of the brain, and it helps so much for learning other things."

From her role as Dr. Lisa Cuddy on the hit Fox series House M.D, to her starring role as Abby McCarthy in Bravo's first scripted series Girlfriend's Guide to Divorce, Lisa Edelstein's range of roles are as diverse talent. Some of Edelstein's feature credits include Keeping the Faith, What Women Want, Daddy Daycare, As Good as It Gets, and Fathers and Sons. She played a Holocaust survivor and adopted mother in the drama television series Little Bird. The story centres on a First Nations woman who was adopted into a Jewish family during the Sixties Scoop, as she attempts to reconnect with her birth family and heritage.

Lisa’s career began by writing, composing, and performing an original AIDS awareness musical Positive Me at the renowned La Mama Experimental Theater Club in New York City. In the wake of COVID, Lisa began to paint using old family photographs as starting points. Her incredibly detailed paintings capture intimate relationships and spontaneous moments with honesty and compassion.

https://lisaedelstein.komi.io/
www.lisaedelsteinpaintings.com/
www.imdb.com/name/nm0249046

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

Artworks:
“Beach Day”, “Marsha”, “Karen” Courtesy of the Artist

Lisa Edelstein in the Studio
Photo credit: Holland Clement, Courtesy of the artist

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How can the arts help us examine and engage with social issues? How do our families shape our views, memories, and experience of the world?

From her role as Dr. Lisa Cuddy on the hit Fox series House, to her starring role as Abby McCarthy in Bravo's first scripted series Girlfriend's Guide to Divorce, Lisa Edelstein's range of roles are as diverse talent. Some of Edelstein's feature credits include Keeping the Faith, What Women Want, Daddy Daycare, As Good as It Gets, and Fathers and Sons. She played a Holocaust survivor and adopted mother in the drama television series Little Bird. The story centres on a First Nations woman who was adopted into a Jewish family during the Sixties Scoop, as she attempts to reconnect with her birth family and heritage.

Lisa’s career began by writing, composing, and performing an original AIDS awareness musical Positive Me at the renowned La Mama Experimental Theater Club in New York City. In the wake of COVID, Lisa began to paint using old family photographs as starting points. Her incredibly detailed paintings capture intimate relationships and spontaneous moments with honesty and compassion.

"My favorite teacher was in second grade. I had a teacher named Mrs. Abo who let me write all my homework assignments in rhyme. And it was like such a simple thing. I asked her if I could write all my homework assignments in rhyme. And she said, "Absolutely!" And she gave me permission to be wildly creative while still doing my work. And little moments like that can really change a kid's life. And I lobbied with this group called the Creative Coalition. We went and lobbied in DC to really fight for the arts being added to the STEM programs to make them STEAM programs because they're so interconnected. It's creative imagination that got us to the moon. It's science fiction stories that are getting us to Mars. It's like that. You know, playing the piano helps you in math. It's all part of the beautiful development of the brain, and it helps so much for learning other things."

https://lisaedelstein.komi.io/
www.lisaedelsteinpaintings.com/
www.imdb.com/name/nm0249046

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

Photo credit: Mitch Stone
Courtesy of the artist

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“So the feeling that we've essentially been priced out of the life that we were supposed to lead. So, we were all taught to put our heads down, go to school, and get a job. You're going to afford a family, a house, kids, all the things that your parents had, you're going to have if you just follow the same path. But none of the things that were promised has a path. So the collective majority who grew up on technology and have no problem living inside of it are saying [of AI]: Hey, can this thing save me? Can I find my out?”

Karina Manashil is the President of MAD SOLAR. After graduating from Chapman University with a BFA in Film Production, she began her career in the mailroom at WME where she became a Talent Agent. In 2020, she partnered with Scott Mescudi and Dennis Cummings to found MAD SOLAR. Its first release was the documentary “A Man Named Scott” (Amazon), and she then went on to Executive Produce Ti West trilogy “X,” “Pearl” and “MaXXXine” (A24). Manashil received an Emmy nomination as an Executive Producer on the Netflix animated event “Entergalactic." She also produced the Mescudi/Kyle Higgins comic book “Moon Man” which launched through Image Comics. She is next producing the upcoming Mescudi/Sam Levinson/The Lucas Bros film “HELL NAW” (Sony) and the animated feature “Slime” from auteur animator Jeron Braxton.

Kyle Higgins is an Eisner award-nominated #1 New York Times best-selling comic book author and award-winning filmmaker known for his work on DC Comics’ Batman titles as well as his critically-acclaimed reinventions of Mighty Morphin Power Rangers for Boom! Studios/Hasbro, Ultraman for Marvel Comics, and his creator-owned series Radiant Black, NO/ONE and Deep Cuts for Image Comics. Kyle is the founder and creative director of Black Market Narrative and The Massive-Verse.

moonmancomics.com
https://imagecomics.com
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm3556462/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1
www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

Audio of Scott Mescudi courtesy of Mad Solar and Moon Man Comic Book Release and Revenge Of (Eagle Rock, CA, Jan 31, 2024)

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What does the future hold for our late-stage capitalist society with mega-corporations owning and controlling everything? How can the world-building skills of the makers of films and comics help us imagine a better future?

Kyle Higgins is an Eisner award-nominated #1 New York Times best-selling comic book author and award-winning filmmaker known for his work on DC Comics’ Batman titles as well as his critically-acclaimed reinventions of Mighty Morphin Power Rangers for Boom! Studios/Hasbro, Ultraman for Marvel Comics, and his creator-owned series Radiant Black, NO/ONE and Deep Cuts for Image Comics. Kyle is the founder and creative director of Black Market Narrative and The Massive-Verse.

Karina Manashil is the President of MAD SOLAR. After graduating from Chapman University with a BFA in Film Production, she began her career in the mailroom at WME where she became a Talent Agent. In 2020, she partnered with Scott Mescudi and Dennis Cummings to found MAD SOLAR. Its first release was the documentary “A Man Named Scott” (Amazon), and she then went on to Executive Produce Ti West trilogy “X,” “Pearl” and “MaXXXine” (A24). Manashil received an Emmy nomination as an Executive Producer on the Netflix animated event “Entergalactic." She also produced the Mescudi/Kyle Higgins comic book “Moon Man” which launched through Image Comics. She is next producing the upcoming Mescudi/Sam Levinson/The Lucas Bros film “HELL NAW” (Sony) and the animated feature “Slime” from auteur animator Jeron Braxton.

“So the feeling that we've essentially been priced out of the life that we were supposed to lead. So, we were all taught to put our heads down, go to school, and get a job. You're going to afford a family, a house, kids, all the things that your parents had, you're going to have if you just follow the same path. But none of the things that were promised has a path. So the collective majority who grew up on technology and have no problem living inside of it are saying [of AI]: Hey, can this thing save me? Can I find my out?” -Karina Manashil

moonmancomics.com
https://imagecomics.com
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm3556462/?ref_=fn_al_nm_1
www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

Audio of Scott Mescudi courtesy of Mad Solar and Moon Man Comic Book Release and Revenge Of (Eagle Rock, CA, Jan 31, 2024)

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"Climate change gives us a chance to re-imagine the world in a way that every single human being can participate in. And so whether you're in a remote part of the United States or some other country, when you learn about climate change, it shouldn't just be the science. It should be the opportunity." –Kathleen Rogers

Excerpts of interviews from One Planet Podcast & The Creative Process.
Voices on this episode are:

KATHLEEN ROGERS
President of EarthDay.ORG

POORVA JOSHIPURA
Senior VP, PETA UK - Author of Survival at Stake: How Our Treatment of Animals is Key to Human Existence

DAVID FENTON
Founder of Fenton Communications - Author of The Activist’s Media Handbook: Lessons From 50 Years as a Progressive Agitator

BRITT WRAY
Author of Generation Dread: Finding Purpose in an Age of Climate Crisis
Researcher Working on Climate Change & Mental Health, Stanford University

DR. FARHANA SULTANA
Co-author: Water Politics: Governance, Justice & the Right to Water
Fmr. UNDP Programme Officer, United Nations Development Programme

ANDRI SNÆR MAGNASON
Icelandic Writer & Documentary Filmmaker
Author of On Time and Water, The Casket of Time, LoveStar, Not Ok

THOMAS CROWTHER
Ecologist - Co-chair of the Board for UN Decade on Ecosystem Restoration - Founder of Restor

DR. SHIV SOMESHWAR
Fmr. European Chair for Sustainable Development & Climate Transition - Sciences Po

PAULA PINHO
Director of Just Transition at the European Commission Directorate-General for Energy

ARMOND COHEN
Executive Director of Clean Air Task Force

MAYA K. VAN ROSSUM
Founder of Green Amendments For The Generations - Delaware Riverkeeper
Author of The Green Amendment: The People's Fight for a Clean, Safe, and Healthy Environment

Max Richter’s music featured in this episode:
“Spring 1” from The New Four Seasons – Vivaldi Recomposed
“Vladimir’s Blues” from The Blue NotebooksMusic is courtesy of Max Richter, Universal Music Enterprises,
and Mute Song.

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

Photo courtesy of Unsplash
Photo credit: Valdemaras D.

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“The natural world has its own sonic language. Its own fingerprints. And that's one of the beautiful things about being out here. There is another acoustic environment, another sort of sonic fingerprint, and it is always changing. Every day is a sort of a different sound picture. I walk out the door and you do hear it changing over time. The leaves are coming in now, different kinds of bird song. The wind sounds different. It's a wonderful thing to be around and experience.” —Max Richter

Excerpts of interviews from One Planet Podcast & The Creative Process

SY MONTGOMERY
NYTimes Bestselling Author of Of Time and Turtles: Mending the World, Shell by Shattered Shell, Secrets of the Octopus, The Hawk’s Way: Encounters with Fierce Beauty, and other books

MAX RICHTER
Award-winning Composer, Pianist & Environmentalist (The Blue Notebooks, Waltz with Bashir, Arrival, Ad Astra) His album SLEEP is the most streamed classical record of all time. Cofounder of Studio Richter Mahr

MERLIN SHELDRAKE
Biologist & Bestselling Author of Entangled Life: How Fungi Make Our Worlds, Change Our Minds, and Shape Our Futures, Winner of the Wainwright Prize 2021

THOMAS CROWTHER
Ecologist - Co-chair of the Board for UN Decade on Ecosystem Restoration - Founder of Restor

TIOKASIN GHOSTHORSE
Founder/Host of First Voices Radio - Master Musician of the Ancient Lakota Flute

ERLAND COOPER
Nature’s Songwriter - Composer of “Folded Landscapes”

RICK BASS
Environmentalist & Story Prize Award-winning Author of “Why I Came West”, “For a Little While” - Fmr. Geologist - Organizer of Climate Aid: The Voice of the Forest

PETER SINGER
“Most Influential Living Philosopher” - Author, Founder of The Life You Can Save

KATHLEEN ROGERS
President of EarthDay.ORG

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

www.maxrichtermusic.com
https://studiorichtermahr.com

Max Richter’s music featured in this episode are “On the Nature of Daylight” from The Blue Notebooks, “Path 19: Yet Frailest” from Sleep.

Music is courtesy of Max Richter, Universal Music Enterprises, and Mute Song.

Photos courtesy of Unsplash
Photo credit: Kyle Johnson, Sebastian Unrau, Abner abiu Castillo diaz, Deepak Nautiyal

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"So everyone should probably throw their smartphones in a river, myself included. And I think that it is hard. There's never going to be a version where you get the right answer, and suddenly your life falls into place, and everything's perfect. And that's not what it's supposed to be for anyway. And I think there is a tendency in self-care circles that once we solve our demons and figure out our path in life, we are in touch with the vibes of the universe. Like suddenly, we're going to be wealthy and healthy and happy and have the perfect marriage. And I think the questions of philosophical inquiry are about how to live a good life, but that's not the same thing as assuming, as so much of contemporary wellness culture assumes, that a normatively successful life will come to us by virtue of doing the right things."

Tara Isabella Burton is the author of the novels Social Creature, The World Cannot Give, and Here in Avalon, as well as the nonfiction books Strange Rites: New Religions for a Godless World and Self-Made: Curating Our Image from Da Vinci to the Kardashians. She is currently working on a history of magic and modernity, to be published by Convergent in late 2025. Her fiction and nonfiction have appeared in The New York Times, National Geographic, Granta, The Washington Post, The Wall Street Journal, and other publications.

www.taraisabellaburton.com
www.simonandschuster.com/books/Here-in-Avalon/Tara-Isabella-Burton/9781982170097?fbclid=IwAR30lnvlXMrDJtCq_568jUM3hvzr6yUz_GUUZSkbR2RarreOF6PMcvhabBg

www.amazon.com/dp/B07W56MQLJ/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?keywords=strange+rites+tara+isabella+burton&qid=1565365017&s=gateway&sr=8-1-fkmr0

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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What are we willing to give up to find meaning, connection, and a sense of belonging? What happens if we don't self-promote, self-create, and self-brand on social media? Will we find the right partner? Will we get into the right college? Or find the best job?

"So everyone should probably throw their smartphones in a river, myself included. And I think that it is hard. There's never going to be a version where you get the right answer, and suddenly your life falls into place, and everything's perfect. And that's not what it's supposed to be for anyway. And I think there is a tendency in self-care circles that once we solve our demons and figure out our path in life, we are in touch with the vibes of the universe. Like suddenly, we're going to be wealthy and healthy and happy and have the perfect marriage. And I think the questions of philosophical inquiry are about how to live a good life, but that's not the same thing as assuming, as so much of contemporary wellness culture assumes, that a normatively successful life will come to us by virtue of doing the right things."

www.taraisabellaburton.com
www.simonandschuster.com/books/Here-in-Avalon/Tara-Isabella-Burton/9781982170097?fbclid=IwAR30lnvlXMrDJtCq_568jUM3hvzr6yUz_GUUZSkbR2RarreOF6PMcvhabBg

www.amazon.com/dp/B07W56MQLJ/ref=sr_1_fkmr0_1?keywords=strange+rites+tara+isabella+burton&qid=1565365017&s=gateway&sr=8-1-fkmr0

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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How can we better educate young people about the future & the planet? How can we address eco-anxiety while providing students with climate optimism, hope, and solutions?
Bryce Coon is the Director of Education at EarthDay.ORG, a nonprofit that champions climate education for all students and is the global driving force behind Earth Day. Previously, Coon was a high school teacher for 11 years in Montgomery County, teaching economics and leading a variety of projects for students, such as a school-wide tutoring program. Throughout his teaching career, Bryce participated in international fellowships where he studied climate education and policy in Asia, Europe, and Oceania.

https://www.earthday.org/campaign/climate-environmental-literacy/
Planet vs. Plastics www.earthday.org
Sign The Global Plastic Treaty Petition
https://action.earthday.org/global-plastics-treaty
Toolkits: https://www.earthday.org/our-toolkits
NDC Guide for Climate Education
https://www.earthday.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/NDC-GUIDE-Final.pdf

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

Photos courtesy of EARTHDAY.ORG

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How can we reimagine a world without plastic? How can we push governments and companies to admit what they know about the health impacts of plastics and change public policy?

Kathleen Rogers is the President of EARTHDAY.ORG. Under her leadership, it has grown into a global year-round policy and activist organization with an international staff. She has been at the vanguard of developing campaigns and programs focused on diversifying the environmental movement, highlighted by Campaign for Communities and Billion Acts of Green. Prior to her work at EARTHDAY.ORG, Kathleen held senior positions with the National Audubon Society, the Environmental Law Institute, and two U.S. Olympic Organizing Committees. She’s a graduate of the University of California at Davis School of Law, where she served as editor-in-chief of the law review and clerked in the United States District Court for the District of Columbia. EARTHDAY.ORG’s 2024 theme, Planet vs. Plastics, calls to advocate for widespread awareness of the health risks of plastics, rapidly phase out all single-use plastics, urgently push for a strong UN Treaty on Plastic Pollution, and demand to end fast fashion. Let's build a plastic-free planet for generations to come.

"The world recognizes that plastics have imperiled our future. Many environmentalists, myself included, view plastics as on par with, if not worse than, climate change because we do see a little light at the end of the tunnel on climate change. Babies vs. Plastics is a collection of studies, and we particularly focused on children and babies because their bodies and brains are more impacted than adults by the 30, 000 chemicals that assault us every day.

We have histories littered with dozens of stories and court cases of malfeasance where companies knew for years before we, the public, did about the impacts. Climate change is a perfect example because we know Exxon scientists knew in 1957 that burning fossil fuels was creating climate change and that eventually, the temperature of the planet would heat up, and they hid it from us for 50-plus years. And more and more reports are coming out every day about what companies and some governments know. Tobacco companies knew tobacco caused cancer for decades before our scientists did. And so we have the same problem with plastics.”

Planet vs. Plastics www.earthday.org
Sign The Global Plastic Treaty Petition
https://action.earthday.org/global-plastics-treaty
Toolkits: https://www.earthday.org/our-toolkits
NDC Guide for Climate Education
https://www.earthday.org/wp-content/uploads/2023/11/NDC-GUIDE-Final.pdf

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

Photos courtesy of EARTHDAY.ORG

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Microplastics and nanoplastic pollution are currently blanketing the planet. They are in the air we breathe, the food we eat, and the water we drink, infiltrating our bodies and even brains and human embryos. Coca-Cola alone sells 100 billion+ single-use plastic bottles each year, ending up in landfills and the ocean. Earth’s population will reach 9.8 billion people by 2050. Two-thirds of humans will become city dwellers. Our waste will drive a mounting worldwide crisis.

Highlights from our interview with Kathleen Rogers, the President of EarthDay.org. The full episode will be published next week.

Planet vs. Plastics
Sign The Global Plastic Treaty Petition

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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"I feel like I'm always telling young people, I know you want to make your own films, and I know you think you know everything. And that's one way to do it is to take an iPhone and just make a terrible first feature and then learn as you go. But I'm such a believer in mentorship. And when you have the time when you're young, find people that you admire and put yourselves in their orbit and just absorb and it will serve you so well later in life. I think all great work comes from the need to say something. And so this is the challenge for young artists and also maybe one of the essential elements that can never be completely taken over by AI because there has to be something you feel has not been said, and you feel an urgent need to say it. In fact, you can't not say it. That need to express is what gives birth to unique expression, which is where all of our visual, performance, and creative arts come from."

Alan Poul is an Emmy, Golden Globe, DGA, and Peabody Award-winning producer and director of film and television. He is Executive Producer and Director on the Max Original drama series Tokyo Vice, written by Tony Award-winning playwright J.T. Rogers and starring Ansel Elgort and Ken Watanabe, as an American journalist in Japan and his police detective mentor. Poul is perhaps best known for producing all five seasons of HBO's Six Feet Under, all four of Armistead Maupin's Tales of the City miniseries, My So-Called Life, The Newsroom, Swingtown, and The Eddy, which he developed with director Damien Chazelle. His feature film producing credits include Paul Schrader's Mishima and Light of Day, and Ridley Scott's Black Rain.

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0693561
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2887954/

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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What does learning another language and living in another culture do for your humanity and creative process?

Alan Poul is an Emmy, Golden Globe, DGA, and Peabody Award-winning producer and director of film and television. He is Executive Producer and Director on the Max Original drama series Tokyo Vice, written by Tony Award-winning playwright J.T. Rogers and starring Ansel Elgort and Ken Watanabe, as an American journalist in Japan and his police detective mentor. Poul is perhaps best known for producing all five seasons of HBO's Six Feet Under, all four of Armistead Maupin's Tales of the City miniseries, My So-Called Life, The Newsroom, Swingtown, and The Eddy, which he developed with director Damien Chazelle. His feature film producing credits include Paul Schrader's Mishima and Light of Day, and Ridley Scott's Black Rain.

"I feel like I'm always telling young people, I know you want to make your own films, and I know you think you know everything. And that's one way to do it is to take an iPhone and just make a terrible first feature and then learn as you go. But I'm such a believer in mentorship. And when you have the time when you're young, find people that you admire and put yourselves in their orbit and just absorb and it will serve you so well later in life. I think all great work comes from the need to say something. And so this is the challenge for young artists and also maybe one of the essential elements that can never be completely taken over by AI because there has to be something you feel has not been said, and you feel an urgent need to say it. In fact, you can't not say it. That need to express is what gives birth to unique expression, which is where all of our visual, performance, and creative arts come from."

https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0693561
https://www.imdb.com/title/tt2887954/

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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"I went to film school, But at the end of two years, I think you've only begun the learning. I think it's very hard in school, and particularly in graduate school, to take in all that's coming at you because you're being barraged with information, and you're trying to listen, and you're trying to internalize. At the same time, you're very anxious, and you're very fervent, but you're also furtive about what can I do and how do I get ahead and how do I do this?

And I think those things are in contradiction, and what happens After you get out of school, as you begin to try to put into practice some of those things that they've been talking about, especially as you try and fail, unbelievably important to have somebody there with you or on off whom you can bounce ideas.

And notions or with whom you can analyze the thing that someone else has done, or you can analyze your own failures. It's a kind of continuing education that happens with a collaborator that as you grow, he grows. You grow together, and you have an observation about something, or he does, and you begin to work, and then you. It was never our intention to work. Our intention was just as friends. It never became about my idea or his idea, but it was the creation of a third idea that somehow evolved."

Ed Zwick is a writer, director, and producer who's been active in the film industry for over 40 years. He has been nominated for two Golden Globes for directing the films Glory and Legends of the Fall and received an Academy Award as one of the producers of Shakespeare in Love. Zwick continues to work with his longtime friend and partner, Marshall Herskovitz, at their company Bedford Falls, where they created the widely loved TV show Thirtysomething. His memoir Hits, Flops, and Other Illusions details many of his greatest experiences in the film industry.

www.simonandschuster.com/authors/Ed-Zwick/212290077
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001880/

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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Ed Zwick is a writer, director, and producer who's been active in the film industry for over 40 years. He has been nominated for two Golden Globes for directing the films Glory and Legends of the Fall and received an Academy Award as one of the producers of Shakespeare in Love. Zwick continues to work with his longtime friend and partner, Marshall Herskovitz, at their company Bedford Falls, where they created the widely loved TV show Thirtysomething. His memoir Hits, Flops, and Other Illusions details many of his greatest experiences in the film industry.

"I went to film school, But at the end of two years, I think you've only begun the learning. I think it's very hard in school, and particularly in graduate school, to take in all that's coming at you because you're being barraged with information, and you're trying to listen, and you're trying to internalize. At the same time, you're very anxious, and you're very fervent, but you're also furtive about what can I do and how do I get ahead and how do I do this?

And I think those things are in contradiction, and what happens After you get out of school, as you begin to try to put into practice some of those things that they've been talking about, especially as you try and fail, unbelievably important to have somebody there with you or on off whom you can bounce ideas.

And notions or with whom you can analyze the thing that someone else has done, or you can analyze your own failures. It's a kind of continuing education that happens with a collaborator that as you grow, he grows. You grow together, and you have an observation about something, or he does, and you begin to work, and then you. It was never our intention to work. Our intention was just as friends. It never became about my idea or his idea, but it was the creation of a third idea that somehow evolved."

www.simonandschuster.com/authors/Ed-Zwick/212290077
https://www.imdb.com/name/nm0001880/

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

Image Courtesy of Dick Thomas Johnson

Creative Commons 2.0

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“I would go back to that very simple thing of treating animals the way that you would like to be treated. And I know that humane education is becoming a more welcome subject or way of teaching in schools. And I definitely think we need more of that where it's not just you go to school and learn about maths and science and history and so on, but you learn about those subjects within the realm of real-life issues and real-life problems.

I wrote Survival at Stake because I've been working in animal rights for nearly the past 25 years. Throughout that time, one common question has been asked: Well, shouldn't we deal with human issues first. But animal rights are human rights. Animal rights is environmentalism. These things are not distinct. And that's the point I was really trying to make in my book. I was inspired to write it because of the COVID-19 crisis. It just brings us back to the point of why it is so important to teach people, young people, and young men the importance of being kind to everyone, animals included. If you teach them that, I think the other lessons start to much more automatically transfer over.”

Poorva Joshipura is PETA U.K. Senior Vice President. She is the Author of Survival at Stake: How Our Treatment of Animals is Key to Human Existence and For a Moment of Taste: How What You Eat Impacts Animals, the Planet and Your Health.

https://usw2.nyl.as/t1/24/2jdwp5ogezjqb5wxg76eqfqeq/0/14474d94f4e832cd573ffc39be471e57616314b12314a26ca7dd9c2bbf559ac0

www.harpercollins.com/products/for-a-moment-of-taste-poorva-joshipura?variant=39399505592354

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www.oneplanetpodcast.org
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How can we improve animal-human relationships? How can we increase our sensitivity to the other animals who share this planet with us?

Poorva Joshipura is PETA U.K. Senior Vice President. She is the Author of Survival at Stake: How Our Treatment of Animals is Key to Human Existence and For a Moment of Taste: How What You Eat Impacts Animals, the Planet and Your Health.

“I would go back to that very simple thing of treating animals the way that you would like to be treated. And I know that humane education is becoming a more welcome subject or way of teaching in schools. And I definitely think we need more of that where it's not just you go to school and learn about maths and science and history and so on, but you learn about those subjects within the realm of real-life issues and real-life problems.

I wrote Survival at Stake because I've been working in animal rights for nearly the past 25 years. Throughout that time, one common question has been asked: Well, shouldn't we deal with human issues first. But animal rights are human rights. Animal rights is environmentalism. These things are not distinct. And that's the point I was really trying to make in my book. I was inspired to write it because of the COVID-19 crisis. It just brings us back to the point of why it is so important to teach people, young people, and young men the importance of being kind to everyone, animals included. If you teach them that, I think the other lessons start to much more automatically transfer over.”

https://usw2.nyl.as/t1/24/2jdwp5ogezjqb5wxg76eqfqeq/0/14474d94f4e832cd573ffc39be471e57616314b12314a26ca7dd9c2bbf559ac0

www.harpercollins.com/products/for-a-moment-of-taste-poorva-joshipura?variant=39399505592354

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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"I'm optimistic about education. There will likely be more traffic between technology and the arts. The tech world needs more creative-minded people and less literal people who have some understanding of how things work.

With Jony Ive, you've got someone who designed the iPhone and was very interested in photography himself. We were talking about doing a portrait. He mentioned that he'd been fascinated by self-portraiture as a kid, so much so that when he was doing his industrial design degree, he wrote his thesis on artists' self-portraits. Fast forward a few years, and we are all taking photos every day and learning really fast how to compose images and read images and why they've been cropped in a certain way. All these things, which were probably the preserve of artists and art historians in the past, are suddenly things that kids are thinking about because it's the way they communicate with each other. So I think that that shift is interesting."

Jonathan Yeo is one of the world’s leading figurative artists and portrait painters. From celebrated figures such as Sir David Attenborough, peace activist Malala Yousafzai, the Duke of Edinburgh, Nicole Kidman, and Tony Blair, sitting for a portrait with Yeo is a provisional necessity for any 21st century icon. His work, which has been exhibited in museums and galleries around the world, is the subject of several major mid-career retrospectives in the UK and internationally. Yeo’s course on portrait painting is available now on BBC Maestro.

www.jonathanyeo.com
www.bbcmaestro.com

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

Images courtesy of Jonathan Yeo

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How can the arts help cultivate our intuitive intelligence? What does visual art teach us about consciousness and the human condition?

Jonathan Yeo is one of the world’s leading figurative artists and portrait painters. From celebrated figures such as Sir David Attenborough, peace activist Malala Yousafzai, the Duke of Edinburgh, Nicole Kidman, and Tony Blair, sitting for a portrait with Yeo is a provisional necessity for any 21st century icon. His work, which has been exhibited in museums and galleries around the world, is the subject of several major mid-career retrospectives in the UK and internationally. Yeo’s course on portrait painting is available now on BBC Maestro.

"I'm optimistic about education. There will likely be more traffic between technology and the arts. The tech world needs more creative-minded people and less literal people who have some understanding of how things work.

With Jony Ive, you've got someone who designed the iPhone and was very interested in photography himself. We were talking about doing a portrait. He mentioned that he'd been fascinated by self-portraiture as a kid, so much so that when he was doing his industrial design degree, he wrote his thesis on artists' self-portraits. Fast forward a few years, and we are all taking photos every day and learning really fast how to compose images and read images and why they've been cropped in a certain way. All these things, which were probably the preserve of artists and art historians in the past, are suddenly things that kids are thinking about because it's the way they communicate with each other. So I think that that shift is interesting."

www.jonathanyeo.com
www.bbcmaestro.com

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

Images courtesy of Jonathan Yeo

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"It seems that a lot of education is a little bit obsessed with training students to remember facts and figures. In the modern world, when every one of us has got the total of human knowledge in our pockets, it's much less important what you can hold in your head and what you can remember because you can just look it up whenever it becomes important, and it's now how you interpret or analyze or synthesize that information and developing skills and techniques in rapidly understanding and interpreting and analyzing information and making decisions based on information. The internet has changed a huge amount about what is important to our lives and simplified many things that would have been examined on otherwise.

It's in finding things out for yourself that is that deep spark of human creativity, which gives us the innovation and all the sort of creativity and designs that we can come up with. So, I think that is something that you would absolutely want to try to continue nurturing yourself."

How have our psychology and cognitive biases altered the course of human history? What would you do if you had to rebuild our world from scratch?

Lewis Dartnell is an author, researcher, and holds the Professorship in Science Communication at the University of Westminster. He researches astrobiology and the search for microbial life on Mars. He also works as a scientific consultant for the media and has appeared in numerous TV documentaries and radio shows. Dr. Dartnell has won several awards for his science writing and outreach work. He has published five books, including The Knowledge: How to Rebuild our World from Scratch; Origins: How the Earth Made Us; and Being Human: How Our Biology Shaped World History.

http://www.lewisdartnell.com
http://lewisdartnell.com/en-gb/2013/11/the-knowledge-how-to-rebuild-our-world-from-scratch
www.penguin.co.uk/books/433955/origins-by-lewis-dartnell/9781784705435
www.penguin.co.uk/books/442759/being-human-by-dartnell-lewis/9781847926708

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IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

Photo credit: Shortlist/Paul Stuart

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How have our psychology and cognitive biases altered the course of human history? What would you do if you had to rebuild our world from scratch?

Lewis Dartnell is an author, researcher, and holds the Professorship in Science Communication at the University of Westminster. He researches astrobiology and the search for microbial life on Mars. He also works as a scientific consultant for the media and has appeared in numerous TV documentaries and radio shows. Dr. Dartnell has won several awards for his science writing and outreach work. He has published five books, including The Knowledge: How to Rebuild our World from Scratch; Origins: How the Earth Made Us; and Being Human: How Our Biology Shaped World History.

"It seems that a lot of education is a little bit obsessed with training students to remember facts and figures. In the modern world, when every one of us has got the total of human knowledge in our pockets, it's much less important what you can hold in your head and what you can remember because you can just look it up whenever it becomes important, and it's now how you interpret or analyze or synthesize that information and developing skills and techniques in rapidly understanding and interpreting and analyzing information and making decisions based on information. The internet has changed a huge amount about what is important to our lives and simplified many things that would have been examined on otherwise.

It's in finding things out for yourself that is that deep spark of human creativity, which gives us the innovation and all the sort of creativity and designs that we can come up with. So, I think that is something that you would absolutely want to try to continue nurturing yourself."

http://www.lewisdartnell.com
http://lewisdartnell.com/en-gb/2013/11/the-knowledge-how-to-rebuild-our-world-from-scratch
www.penguin.co.uk/books/433955/origins-by-lewis-dartnell/9781784705435
www.penguin.co.uk/books/442759/being-human-by-dartnell-lewis/9781847926708

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

Photo credit: Shortlist/Paul Stuart

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“When people say, oh, yeah, AI is going to help everyone or change humanity or all these claims, they don't realize people don't have access to the Internet in some places or cell phones or the fact that the data used by AI models is not representative of many parts of the world. It's mostly in English, and the data generated on the Internet and AI is mostly by educated, white, male users who post on forums. So there are whole generations and whole regions of the world that are not represented in this data. And so I think that all these claims of the universality of AI or how it's going to help everyone are techno-optimistic. I think it's really important to stay, once again, skeptical of AI, but also learn about it and see it not as some magical thing, but more as a technology. A technology that works but also doesn't work. A technology that comes with costs and benefits.”

What are the pros and cons of AI’s integration into our institutions, political systems, culture, and society? How can we develop AI systems that are more respectful, ethical, and sustainable?

Dr. Sasha Luccioni is a leading scientist at the nexus of artificial intelligence, ethics, and sustainability, with a Ph.D. in AI and a decade of research and industry expertise. She spearheads research, consults, and utilizes capacity-building to elevate the sustainability of AI systems. As a founding member of Climate Change AI (CCAI) and a board member of Women in Machine Learning (WiML), Sasha is passionate about catalyzing impactful change, organizing events, and serving as a mentor to under-represented minorities within the AI community. She is an AI Researcher & Climate Lead at Hugging Face, an open-source hub for machine learning and natural language processing.

https://www.sashaluccioni.com
https://huggingface.co/
http://www.climatechange.ai
https://wimlworkshop.org

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What are the pros and cons of AI’s integration into our institutions, political systems, culture, and society? How can we develop AI systems that are more respectful, ethical, and sustainable?

Dr. Sasha Luccioni is a leading scientist at the nexus of artificial intelligence, ethics, and sustainability, with a Ph.D. in AI and a decade of research and industry expertise. She spearheads research, consults, and utilizes capacity-building to elevate the sustainability of AI systems. As a founding member of Climate Change AI (CCAI) and a board member of Women in Machine Learning (WiML), Sasha is passionate about catalyzing impactful change, organizing events, and serving as a mentor to under-represented minorities within the AI community. She is an AI Researcher & Climate Lead at Hugging Face, an open-source hub for machine learning and natural language processing.

“When people say, oh, yeah, AI is going to help everyone or change humanity or all these claims, they don't realize people don't have access to the Internet in some places or cell phones or the fact that the data used by AI models is not representative of many parts of the world. It's mostly in English, and the data generated on the Internet and AI is mostly by educated, white, male users who post on forums. So there are whole generations and whole regions of the world that are not represented in this data. And so I think that all these claims of the universality of AI or how it's going to help everyone are techno-optimistic. I think it's really important to stay, once again, skeptical of AI, but also learn about it and see it not as some magical thing, but more as a technology. A technology that works but also doesn't work. A technology that comes with costs and benefits.”

https://www.sashaluccioni.com
https://huggingface.co/
http://www.climatechange.ai
https://wimlworkshop.org

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"Now, we are so careless in the way we approach things we think we understand. And we're dismissive. We are quick to judgment. And that's one thing that I hope in my class and the current generation really needs to be a far more reflective. Read and discuss widely. Especially read those things that you disagree with. And then ask yourself why. Why are you having this reaction? Why this negative emotion? Go to the heart of why you think you disagree with this. It enables the young to become better communicators. You need to be open to being questioned. You don't outshout the questioner. You really need to be able to answer these uncomfortable questions, and that's the way of persuasion. And, of course, you have power dynamics over which you have no control, especially when you're young. And that's something they really need to figure out. How does one work in a situation of power and powerlessness? But there is no substitute for knowing."

How do urbanization and rural development impact communities differently? How can we make public policy and enlightened self-interest advance climate action?

Dr. Shiv Someshwar is a Development Clinician, diagnosing development of cities and nation states. A Visiting Professor at Columbia University, New York and at Sciences Po, Paris, he was the founder chair-holder of the European Chair for Sustainable Development and Climate Transition at Sciences Po. He helped set up the initial national and regional networks of the global Sustainable Development Solutions Network.

His publications cover a range of issues: planning, institutions and governance of sustainable development; climate change mitigation, adaptation, risks and offsets; and ecosystem management. He edited Re-living the Memories of an Indian Forester: Memoirs of S. Shyam Sunder and is presently writing The Fallacy of Evidence-Based Policy Making.

He convened and chaired the Independent Task Force on Creative Climate Action. Dr. Someshwar received a Ph.D. in urban planning from the University of California, Los Angeles, and he was a Bell-MacArthur fellow at Harvard University. He has two masters’ degrees, on housing and on environmental planning, and is also trained as a professional architect. He has previously worked at the Earth Institute, Columbia University, the Rockefeller Foundation in New York, and the World Bank in Washington D.C.

https://www.sciencespo.fr/psia/sites/sciencespo.fr.psia/files/ITFClimateReport_Web.pdf www.amazon.com/Reliving-Memories-Indian-Forester-Memoir/dp/9388337131

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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How do urbanization and rural development impact communities differently? How can we make public policy and enlightened self-interest advance climate action?

Dr. Shiv Someshwar is a Development Clinician, diagnosing development of cities and nation states. A Visiting Professor at Columbia University, New York and at Sciences Po, Paris, he was the founder chair-holder of the European Chair for Sustainable Development and Climate Transition at Sciences Po. He helped set up the initial national and regional networks of the global Sustainable Development Solutions Network.

His publications cover a range of issues: planning, institutions and governance of sustainable development; climate change mitigation, adaptation, risks and offsets; and ecosystem management. He edited Re-living the Memories of an Indian Forester: Memoirs of S. Shyam Sunder and is presently writing The Fallacy of Evidence-Based Policy Making.

He convened and chaired the Independent Task Force on Creative Climate Action. Dr. Someshwar received a Ph.D. in urban planning from the University of California, Los Angeles, and he was a Bell-MacArthur fellow at Harvard University. He has two masters’ degrees, on housing and on environmental planning, and is also trained as a professional architect. He has previously worked at the Earth Institute, Columbia University, the Rockefeller Foundation in New York, and the World Bank in Washington D.C.

"Now, we are so careless in the way we approach things we think we understand. And we're dismissive. We are quick to judgment. And that's one thing that I hope in my class and the current generation really needs to be a far more reflective. Read and discuss widely. Especially read those things that you disagree with. And then ask yourself why. Why are you having this reaction? Why this negative emotion? Go to the heart of why you think you disagree with this. It enables the young to become better communicators. You need to be open to being questioned. You don't outshout the questioner. You really need to be able to answer these uncomfortable questions, and that's the way of persuasion. And, of course, you have power dynamics over which you have no control, especially when you're young. And that's something they really need to figure out. How does one work in a situation of power and powerlessness? But there is no substitute for knowing."

https://www.sciencespo.fr/psia/sites/sciencespo.fr.psia/files/ITFClimateReport_Web.pdf www.amazon.com/Reliving-Memories-Indian-Forester-Memoir/dp/9388337131

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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Scientists, artists, psychologists, conservationists, and spiritual leaders share their stories and insights on the importance of connecting with nature, preserving the environment, embracing diversity, and finding harmony in the world. Music courtesy of composer Max Richter. All voices in this episode are from our interviews for The Creative Process & One Planet Podcast.

00:05 Adapting to Earth: Indigenous Perspectives
TIOKASIN GHOSTHORSE - Founder/Host of First Voices Radio - Founder of Akantu Intelligence
https://firstvoicesindigenousradio.org
https://akantuintelligence.org

01:06 The Beauty and Fragility of the Natural World
APRIL GORNIK - Artist, Environmentalist, Co-founder of The Church: Arts & Creativity Center
www.aprilgornik.com
www.thechurchsagharbor.org

02:01 The Importance of Whales in Ecosystems
NAN HAUSER - Whale Researcher - President, Center for Cetacean Research & Conservation - Director, Cook Islands Whale Research
https://whaleresearch.org

03:27 The Importance of Community and Collective Well-being
ROBERT WALDINGER - Co-Author of The Good Life: Lessons from the World's Longest Scientific Study of Happinesshttps://www.robertwaldinger.com

04:19 The Power of Love, Respect, and Unity
JULIAN LENNON - Singer-songwriter, Photographer, Doc Filmmaker, Exec. Producer of the films Common Ground & Kiss the Ground
https://julianlennon.com
https://commongroundfilm.org

05:05 The Importance of Cultural and Scientific Knowledge
RUPERT SHELDRAKE - Biologist & Author of The Science Delusion, The Presence of the Past
www.sheldrake.org

0:6:18 Mastering Confidence & Human Potential
IAN ROBERTSON - Author of How Confidence Works: The New Science of Self-belief - Co-Director of the Global Brain Health Institute
https://ianrobertson.org

07:01 The Magic of Coral Reefs
GATOR HALPERN - Co-Founder & President of Coral Vita - UN Young Champion of the Earth - Forbes 30 Under 30 Social Entrepreneur
https://coralvita.co

08:06 Lessons from Ancient Trees and Tundra
DOUG LARSON - Biologist - Expert on Deforestation - Author of Cliff Ecology - The The Dogma Ate My Homework
https://experts.uoguelph.ca/doug-larson

09:36 Understanding the Flow of Life
MASTER SHI HENG YI - 35th Generation of Shaolin Masters
Headmaster of the Shaolin Temple Europe
www.shihengyi.online
www.shaolintemple.eu

Max Richter’s music featured in this episode are “On the Nature of Daylight” from The Blue Notebooks, “Path 19: Yet Frailest” from Sleep.
Music is courtesy of Max Richter, Universal Music Enterprises, and Mute Song.

www.creativeprocess.info
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“The first guitar I built, I took it to a friend who has a guitar business. And he looked at it and he said this instrument has the approximate shape of a guitar, but it's not a guitar. It's a piece of junk. And he was right. So, what I found is that it's thrilling, as an artist or as a scientist, to pursue something, even if you don't achieve the thing that you're pursuing but it's the attempt that expresses the humanity.”

What can thousand-year-old trees teach us about living sustainably? If we want to be sustained by this planet indefinitely, we need to stop trying to suck it dry.

Doug Larson is an award winning scientist, author, and Professor Emeritus of Biology at the University of Guelph. He is an expert on deforestation and regularly contributes to The Guardian and other publications. His books include Cliff Ecology: Pattern and Process in Cliff Ecosystems, The Urban Cliff Revolution: New Findings on the Origins and Evolution of Human Habitats, Storyteller Guitar, and The Dogma At My Homework.

https://experts.uoguelph.ca/doug-larson
https://volumesdirect.com/products/the-dogma-ate-my-homework
https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/cliff-ecology/7502E52B487789BEA2CACC4553AA663B

https://www.amazon.com/Urban-Cliff-Revolution-Evolution-Habitats/dp/1550419927
https://www.amazon.com/Storyteller-Guitar-Doug-Larson-ebook/dp/B00B9VZQXU

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

Image courtesy of Doug Larson

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What can thousand-year-old trees teach us about living sustainably? If we want to be sustained by this planet indefinitely, we need to stop trying to suck it dry.

Doug Larson is an award winning scientist, author, and Professor Emeritus of Biology at the University of Guelph. He is an expert on deforestation and regularly contributes to The Guardian and other publications. His books include Cliff Ecology: Pattern and Process in Cliff Ecosystems, The Urban Cliff Revolution: New Findings on the Origins and Evolution of Human Habitats, Storyteller Guitar, and The Dogma At My Homework.

“The first guitar I built, I took it to a friend who has a guitar business. And he looked at it and he said this instrument has the approximate shape of a guitar, but it's not a guitar. It's a piece of junk. And he was right. So, what I found is that it's thrilling, as an artist or as a scientist, to pursue something, even if you don't achieve the thing that you're pursuing but it's the attempt that expresses the humanity.”

https://experts.uoguelph.ca/doug-larson
https://volumesdirect.com/products/the-dogma-ate-my-homework
https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/cliff-ecology/7502E52B487789BEA2CACC4553AA663B

https://www.amazon.com/Urban-Cliff-Revolution-Evolution-Habitats/dp/1550419927
https://www.amazon.com/Storyteller-Guitar-Doug-Larson-ebook/dp/B00B9VZQXU

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

Image courtesy of Doug Larson

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“I had a very tangible interaction with a teacher that shaped everything in my life. I'm dyslexic, but I managed to get into a good university in the UK, and I was messing around in a class with 300 students, and the teacher sent me out of the class. But he met me after that class, and he essentially said, ‘What are you doing? Why are you here?’ And I was like, ‘I like ecology, but I just can't keep up. There's too much reading. There's too much statistics.’ And he said, ‘If you like ecology, just find the bits that you like.’ And I just needed to look at the fungi and find them fascinating. And then that gives you positive endorphins when you have a successful experiment. So I just immersed myself in the parts that I enjoyed and through that process, things started to go really well and my degree went really well. And then after that, my career sort of exploded. And genuinely, I know if I had not encountered that professor, there's no way my career would have gone in the direction it has done. And I just think teachers are unbelievable inspirers, not necessarily for the knowledge they give you, but more for just inspiring you to follow your own your own path, your own trajectory.”

Although they comprise less than 5% of the world population, Indigenous peoples protect 80% of the Earth’s biodiversity. How can we support farmers, reverse biodiversity loss, and restore our ecosystems?

Thomas Crowther is an ecologist studying the connections between biodiversity and climate change. He is a professor in the Department of Environmental Systems Science at ETH Zurich, chair of the advisory council for the United Nations Decade on Ecosystem Restoration, and founder of Restor, an online platform for the global restoration movement, which was a finalist for the Royal Foundation’s Earthshot Prize. In 2021, the World Economic Forum named him a Young Global Leader for his work on the protection and restoration of biodiversity. Crowther’s post-doctoral research transformed the understanding of the world’s tree cover, and the study also inspired the World Economic Forum to announce its Trillion Trees initiative, which aims to conserve and restore one trillion trees globally within the decade.

https://crowtherlab.com/about-tom-crowther
https://restor.eco/?lat=26&lng=14.23&zoom=3

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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Although they comprise less than 5% of the world population, Indigenous peoples protect 80% of the Earth’s biodiversity. How can we support farmers, reverse biodiversity loss, and restore our ecosystems?

Thomas Crowther is an ecologist studying the connections between biodiversity and climate change. He is a professor in the Department of Environmental Systems Science at ETH Zurich, chair of the advisory council for the United Nations Decade on Ecosystem Restoration, and founder of Restor, an online platform for the global restoration movement, which was a finalist for the Royal Foundation’s Earthshot Prize. In 2021, the World Economic Forum named him a Young Global Leader for his work on the protection and restoration of biodiversity. Crowther’s post-doctoral research transformed the understanding of the world’s tree cover, and the study also inspired the World Economic Forum to announce its Trillion Trees initiative, which aims to conserve and restore one trillion trees globally within the decade.

“I had a very tangible interaction with a teacher that shaped everything in my life. I'm dyslexic, but I managed to get into a good university in the UK, and I was messing around in a class with 300 students, and the teacher sent me out of the class. But he met me after that class, and he essentially said, ‘What are you doing? Why are you here?’ And I was like, ‘I like ecology, but I just can't keep up. There's too much reading. There's too much statistics.’ And he said, ‘If you like ecology, just find the bits that you like.’ And I just needed to look at the fungi and find them fascinating. And then that gives you positive endorphins when you have a successful experiment. So I just immersed myself in the parts that I enjoyed and through that process, things started to go really well and my degree went really well. And then after that, my career sort of exploded. And genuinely, I know if I had not encountered that professor, there's no way my career would have gone in the direction it has done. And I just think teachers are unbelievable inspirers, not necessarily for the knowledge they give you, but more for just inspiring you to follow your own your own path, your own trajectory.”

https://crowtherlab.com/about-tom-crowther
https://restor.eco/?lat=26&lng=14.23&zoom=3

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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As we reach the tipping points of climate change, how will our world change? Greenland has already lost 4,700 billion metric tons of ice, an amount that is enough to flood the entire United States in 1.5 feet of water.

Peter D. Ditlevsen is an Associate Professor at the Niels Bohr Institute at Copenhagen University. The institute was founded in 1921 as the Institute for Theoretical Physics. Ditlevsen is a Professor in Physics of Ice, Climate, and Earth. His fields of interest include climate research, turbulence, meteorology, complex systems, time series analysis, and statistical physics.

"The big problem we have with climate change is that this is not like any other crisis because it influences all parts of life. I'm a physicist. I like doing experiments. I thought, you know, how terrible would it be for me not eat meat, right? You know, I was used to going home on Friday night, putting on a steak, and a bottle of red wine. That was sort of the easy thing, right? So now, I don't buy an expensive steak. I buy some vegetables that are cheaper, okay? So I have money left over. If I spend that money on an airplane ticket somewhere, then it doesn't really matter. That's the spillover effect.

I think, in our part of the world, and if we are to be frontrunners, we have to crack that nut. We do like to think that our children should have a better world than we grew up in, and they should be better off and so on. So it should be a different kind of wealth, right? The wealth should not be having a large car and a big house and a lot of goods."

https://nbi.ku.dk/english/staff/?pure=en/persons/peter-ditlevsen(77e9801a-6b31-4488-a282-6c99a406a5f1)/cv.html

www.creativeprocess.info
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"This too is a skill, learning how to listen. It takes humility. It takes openness. It takes a certain kind of courage because if you really listen to someone else, there's a chance that your view of the world will be changed. And this is not something that people are comfortable with. So we say it's important to be a good listener, but I think we underappreciate just how hard it really, really is to listen to what other people are saying. I think it's important for young people to understand that life is hard and that they need to be, on the one hand, ambitious, and on the other hand, humble. Because they are likely to make mistakes and every mistake is an opportunity to become wiser and become smarter. The task is to try to make it so that the consequences of mistakes are not catastrophic so that you actually get to live another day and do it better the next day than you did this day. And I want young people to appreciate how much they have to learn from one another and from older people."

Does having too many choices make us unhappy? How can we learn practical wisdom?

Dr. Barry Schwartz is the Dorwin P. Cartwright Professor Emeritus of Social Theory and Social Action in the psychology department at Swarthmore College. He is the author of many books, including Why We Work, The Paradox of Choice: Why More Is Less, and co-author of Practical Wisdom: The Right Way to Do the Right Thing.

www.swarthmore.edu/profile/barry-schwartz
www.simonandschuster.com/books/Why-We-Work/Barry-Schwartz/TED-Books/9781476784861
https://www.harpercollins.com/products/the-paradox-of-choice-barry-schwartz?variant=32207920234530
https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/307231/practical-wisdom-by-barry-schwartz-and-kenneth-sharpe

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

Photo credit: Bill Holsinger-Robinson - CC BY 2.0

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Does having too many choices make us unhappy? How can we learn practical wisdom?

Dr. Barry Schwartz is the Dorwin P. Cartwright Professor Emeritus of Social Theory and Social Action in the psychology department at Swarthmore College. He is the author of many books, including Why We Work, The Paradox of Choice: Why More Is Less, and co-author of Practical Wisdom: The Right Way to Do the Right Thing.

"This too is a skill, learning how to listen. It takes humility. It takes openness. It takes a certain kind of courage because if you really listen to someone else, there's a chance that your view of the world will be changed. And this is not something that people are comfortable with. So we say it's important to be a good listener, but I think we underappreciate just how hard it really, really is to listen to what other people are saying. I think it's important for young people to understand that life is hard and that they need to be, on the one hand, ambitious, and on the other hand, humble. Because they are likely to make mistakes and every mistake is an opportunity to become wiser and become smarter. The task is to try to make it so that the consequences of mistakes are not catastrophic so that you actually get to live another day and do it better the next day than you did this day. And I want young people to appreciate how much they have to learn from one another and from older people."

www.swarthmore.edu/profile/barry-schwartz
www.simonandschuster.com/books/Why-We-Work/Barry-Schwartz/TED-Books/9781476784861
https://www.harpercollins.com/products/the-paradox-of-choice-barry-schwartz?variant=32207920234530
https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/307231/practical-wisdom-by-barry-schwartz-and-kenneth-sharpe

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

Photo credit: Bill Holsinger-Robinson - CC BY 2.0

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Can we stop talking about growth and mediate an environmental crisis through the structures of capitalism?

In this episode of the Speaking Out of Place podcast, Professor David Palumbo-Liu speaks with Japanese scholar Kohei Saito, whose book, Marx in the Anthropocene sold over half a million copies. In it, Saito shows how late in life Marx came to a richer sense of production when he released that there was a law above the economic as he had conceived it—it was the law of Nature. Marx saw how disturbing Nature’s metabolism could bring about a “rift” that sent destructive ripples across human life. Today we make the connection between that scholarly book and Kohei’s new book, Slow Down!!, which has just come out in English translation. Here he offers a sharp critique of liberal and socialist attempts to “sustain”—like the Green New Deal, and argues for a radical form of degrowth communism that de-celerates our compulsion to add more stuff into the world, in whatever form, and derails our compulsion to sustain, rather than revolutionize. Saito argues that we can lead much happier, and more healthy lives, if we emphasize use value, and revitalize democracy so we all have a hand in deciding what is valuable.

“The Green New Deal presents itself as a kind of radical policy. If you look at the content, it's just simply the continuation of what capitalism wants to do. It's a massive investment in new, allegedly green industries, with the creation of more jobs with higher wages, but these are not the things that socialists or any environmentalists should be actually seeking because we recognize that capitalism is basically the root cause of the climate crisis and the misery of the workers. If so, I think it is high time to imagine something radically very different from business-as-usual capitalism.”

Kohei Saito as an Associate Professor at the University of Tokyo. He completed his doctorate at the Humboldt University in Berlin. In 2018 he won the prestigious Deutscher Memorial Prize for Marxist research—becoming the first Japanese, and the youngest person, ever to win that prize. His books include: Slow Down! How Degrowth Communism Can Save the World (2023); Marx in the Anthropocene: Towards the Idea of Degrowth Communism (2022), Karl Marx’s Ecosocialism: Capital, Nature, and the Unfinished Critique of Political Economy (2017).

https://researchmap.jp/7000022985?lang=en

https://www.hachette.com.au/kohei-saito/slow-down-how-degrowth-communism-can-save-the-earth

www.palumbo-liu.com
https://speakingoutofplace.com
https://twitter.com/palumboliu?s=20

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In this episode of the Speaking Out of Place podcast, Professor David Palumbo-Liu speaks with noted researcher and scholar Ben Franta about two new articles he has written that add to his growing archive of seminal work on climate change. Ben tells us now the fossil fuel industry paid economists to join scientists in denying the true nature of the fossil fuel industry’s destruction of the environment. Economists argued that even if some science were correct, implementing change would be too costly. This became a powerful tool to stall and kill climate change legislation. Ben also talks about how communities have tried to sue fossil fuel companies for damages incurred by such misinformation and disinformation. In sum, we learn about what the industry has done, and how ordinary people and municipalities can fight back.

Benjamin Franta is the founding head of the Climate Litigation Lab and a Senior Research Fellow at the University of Oxford Sustainable Law Programme. The Climate Litigation Lab is a multidisciplinary research initiative to inform, enable, and accelerate climate change litigation globally. Ben is also an Associate at the Institute for New Economic Thinking at the Oxford Martin School and an Associate Member of Nuffield College, Oxford, and a former research fellow at the Belfer Center for Science and International Affairs at the Harvard Kennedy School of Government. He is the recipient of numerous academic and research fellowships including the Stanford Interdisciplinary Graduate Fellowship and the National Science Foundation Graduate Research Fellowship. His research and writing have appeared in 10 languages, been featured in the Paramount+ documentary Black Gold, been cited in the U.S. Congressional Record, and been published in numerous scholarly and popular venues including Nature Climate Change, Global Environmental Change, The Guardian, Project Syndicate, and more.

“For 40 years, the American Petroleum Institute has hired economists to argue it would be too expensive to try and control fossil fuels and that climate change wasn't that bad. The same go-to consultancy firm has been involved in every major climate policy fight from the very beginning and hired by the fossil fuel industry, but what are the courts going to do? It's not just the historical deception. It's an ongoing deception.”
www.inet.ox.ac.uk/people/benjamin-franta
www.smithschool.ox.ac.uk/oxford-sustainable-law-programme/research/climate-litigation-lab

www.palumbo-liu.com
https://speakingoutofplace.com
https://twitter.com/palumboliu?s=20

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"The idea that the laws of nature are fixed is taken for granted by almost all scientists and within physics, within cosmology, it leads to an enormous realm of speculation, which I think is totally unnecessary. We're assuming the laws of nature are fixed. Most of science assumes this, but is it really so in an evolving universe? Why shouldn't the laws evolve? And if we think about that, then we realize that actually, the whole idea of a law of nature is a metaphor. It's based on human laws. I mean, after all, dogs and cats don't obey laws. And in tribes, they don't even have laws. They have customs. So it's only in civilized societies that you have laws. And then if we think through that metaphor, then actually the laws do change.

All artists are influenced by other artists and by things in the collective culture, and I think that morphic resonance as collective memory would say that all of us draw unconsciously as well as consciously on a collective memory and all animals draw on a collective memory of their kind as well. We don't know where it comes from, but there's true creativity involved in evolution, both human and natural."

How do we navigate ambiguity and uncertainty? Moving beyond linear thinking into instinct and intuition, we might discover other sources within ourselves that lie beyond the boundaries of science and reason.

Rupert Sheldrake is a biologist and author best known for his hypothesis of morphic resonance. His many books include The Science Delusion, The Presence of the Past, and Ways to Go Beyond and Why They Work. At Cambridge University, Dr. Sheldrake worked in developmental biology as a fellow of Clare College. From 2005 to 2010, he was director of the Perrott Warrick Project for research on unexplained human and animal abilities, funded by Trinity College Cambridge. He was among the top 100 global thought leaders for 2013, as ranked by the Duttweiler Institute.

www.sheldrake.org

www.amazon.com/Science-Delusion/dp/1529393221/?tag=sheldrake-20

www.amazon.com/Science-Set-Free-Paths-Discovery/dp/0770436722/?tag=sheldrake-20

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How do we navigate ambiguity and uncertainty? Moving beyond linear thinking into instinct and intuition, we might discover other sources within ourselves that lie beyond the boundaries of science and reason.

Rupert Sheldrake is a biologist and author best known for his hypothesis of morphic resonance. His many books include The Science Delusion, The Presence of the Past, and Ways to Go Beyond and Why They Work. At Cambridge University, Dr. Sheldrake worked in developmental biology as a fellow of Clare College. From 2005 to 2010, he was director of the Perrott Warrick Project for research on unexplained human and animal abilities, funded by Trinity College Cambridge. He was among the top 100 global thought leaders for 2013, as ranked by the Duttweiler Institute.

"The idea that the laws of nature are fixed is taken for granted by almost all scientists and within physics, within cosmology, it leads to an enormous realm of speculation, which I think is totally unnecessary. We're assuming the laws of nature are fixed. Most of science assumes this, but is it really so in an evolving universe? Why shouldn't the laws evolve? And if we think about that, then we realize that actually, the whole idea of a law of nature is a metaphor. It's based on human laws. I mean, after all, dogs and cats don't obey laws. And in tribes, they don't even have laws. They have customs. So it's only in civilized societies that you have laws.

And then if we think through that metaphor, then actually the laws do change.

All artists are influenced by other artists and by things in the collective culture, and I think that morphic resonance as collective memory would say that all of us draw unconsciously as well as consciously on a collective memory and all animals draw on a collective memory of their kind as well. We don't know where it comes from, but there's true creativity involved in evolution, both human and natural."

www.sheldrake.org

www.amazon.com/Science-Delusion/dp/1529393221/?tag=sheldrake-20

www.amazon.com/Science-Set-Free-Paths-Discovery/dp/0770436722/?tag=sheldrake-20

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“I drove for like a half an hour into absolute nothingness, and I left the car. It was three o'clock in the morning. It was minus 17 degrees and it was absolutely still. I've never experienced stillness such as that. I mean, it's like you feel like you can feel your atoms move or not move because it's so cold. And the sky is full of the Northern Lights. So you are already in a remote place, but you want to go further. And I think maybe those themes of going out into the wilderness are motivated by the urge to connect. And I think Issa López has really incorporated it beautifully into the script. And the show tells of this great disconnect between people. So not only are we disconnected from our environment, but we are disconnected from each other.
When we were shooting I sometimes thought, there is this beauty about collaboration between a director, cinematographer, and production designer, and all these key people. And I'm more and more convinced there's some kind of conscious thing happening. And there's also something subconscious happening.”

How does the place we’re born influence our beliefs? What would it be like to live in a world run by women, where it’s perpetually night, and the dead can speak to the living? In this episode, we discuss the new season of HBO’s True Detective: Night Country with award-winning cinematographer Florian Hoffmeister.

Known for his work on Tár, Pachinko, Great Expectations, and most recently, the new season of True Detective, he's also known for his collaboration with director Terence Davies on the films The Deep Blue Sea and A Quiet Passion. His work on Great Expectations earned him an Primetime Emmy and a BAFTA in cinematography, and in 2022, he was nominated for the Academy Award for Best Cinematography for his work on Tár.

http://florianhoffmeister.de/
www.hbo.com/true-detective
www.imdb.com/title/tt2356777/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

Photo: Jodie Foster, Kali Reis · 
Photograph by Michele K. Short/HBO

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How does the place we’re born influence our beliefs? What would it be like to live in a world run by women, where it’s perpetually night, and the dead can speak to the living? In this episode, we discuss the new season of HBO’s True Detective: Night Country with award-winning cinematographer Florian Hoffmeister.

Known for his work on Tár, Pachinko, Great Expectations, and most recently, the new season of True Detective, he's also known for his collaboration with director Terence Davies on the films The Deep Blue Sea and A Quiet Passion. His work on Great Expectations earned him an Primetime Emmy and a BAFTA in cinematography, and in 2022, he was nominated for the Academy Award for Best Cinematography for his work on Tár.

“I drove for like a half an hour into absolute nothingness, and I left the car. It was three o'clock in the morning. It was minus 17 degrees and it was absolutely still. I've never experienced stillness such as that. I mean, it's like you feel like you can feel your atoms move or not move because it's so cold. And the sky is full of the Northern Lights. So you are already in a remote place, but you want to go further. And I think maybe those themes of going out into the wilderness are motivated by the urge to connect. And I think Issa López has really incorporated it beautifully into the script. And the show tells of this great disconnect between people. So not only are we disconnected from our environment, but we are disconnected from each other.
When we were shooting I sometimes thought, there is this beauty about collaboration between a director, cinematographer, and production designer, and all these key people. And I'm more and more convinced there's some kind of conscious thing happening. And there's also something subconscious happening.”

http://florianhoffmeister.de/
www.hbo.com/true-detective
www.imdb.com/title/tt2356777/?ref_=fn_al_tt_1

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

Photo credits: Michele K. Short / HBO

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In this episode of the Speaking Out of Place podcast, Professor David Palumbo-Liu and Azeezah Kanji talk with eminent Anishinaabe legal theorist John Borrows and philosopher Paco Calvo about how we might learn about, learn with, and learn from our plant companions on this earth. Plants show signs of communication and of learning. They produce and respond to many of the same neurochemicals as humans, including anesthetics. They share resources with one another, and when under threat, emit signals of warning and of pain. While Barrows and Calvo both urge us to listen to the Earth, during this conversation we discover that these two thinkers are often listening for different things. The discussion reveals fascinating points of difference and commonality. And in terms of the latter, the point both John and Paco insist upon is that we maintain our separation from other beings at our peril and at a loss.

Dr. John Borrows, BA, MA, JD, LLM, PhD, LLD, FRSC, is Canada's pre-eminent legal scholar and a global leader in the field of Indigenous legal traditions and Aboriginal rights. John holds the Canada Research Chair in Indigenous Law at the University of Victoria as well as the Law Foundation Chair in Aboriginal Justice and Governance.

Paco Calvo is a renowned cognitive scientist and philosopher of biology, known for his groundbreaking research in the field of plant cognition and intelligence. He is a professor at the University of Murcia in Spain, where he leads the Minimal Intelligence Lab (MINT Lab), focusing on the study of minimal cognition in plants. Calvo’s interdisciplinary work combines insights from biology, philosophy, and cognitive science to explore the fascinating world of plant behavior, decision-making, and problem-solving.

https://www.uvic.ca/law/facultystaff/facultydirectory/borrows.php

https://www.um.es/mintlab/index.php/about/people/paco-calvo/

00:02 Introduction to Plant Communication

00:21 Conversation with John Burrows and Paco Calvo

01:11 Challenging Pre-existing Concepts about Intelligence

01:37 Exploring Plant Intelligence

02:32 Understanding Human Intelligence

04:47 Challenging Orthodox Cognitive Psychology

05:34 Ecological Approach to Intelligence

07:26 The Role of Indigenous Knowledge in Understanding Intelligence

09:11 Understanding Anishinaabe Law and Ethical Traditions

12:09 The Role of Treaties in Indigenous Peoples' Relationships with Nature

38:51 The Role of Education in Understanding Ecological Cognition

45:28 The Importance of Experiential Learning and Literacy Beyond Books

46:24 The Power of Ignorance and Openness to Knowledge

50:00 The Ethical Obligations to the More Than Human World

01:07:43 The Role of Religion in Understanding Our Relationship with the More Than Human World

01:16:16 The Importance of Slowing Down to Appreciate Plant Behavior

01:17:39 The Co-Evolutionary Perspective of Life

www.palumbo-liu.com
https://speakingoutofplace.com
https://twitter.com/palumboliu?s=20

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“I'll go with cultural etymology of this language English. And the word education where does it come from? Well, it comes from scholars and whatever, but the etymology of the word education, what does it mean? It means to adduce or seduce. And there's different evolutions of the word, and in one dictionary I saw before 1940 says, of course, to adduce or seduce, but it also says 'to draw out or lead away from' - and get this - 'to lead away from spirit.' And what has it done? Replaced, draw out, or lead away from spirit. So what that's done is replace it with information and knowledge. And that's control by domination. Here's how: So schools started out in the Catholic churches, because the monks, they drew the monks away when they were boys to read and script and to keep this educational process moving. So they were away from nature and only of men's minds. So it's a controlled education where you're instructed mechanically to get the right answer. Where in Native is that we are shown the possibilities, and we're able to choose freely about what we're shown. We're never told to do this or say that or we were shown because it was a living and is a living language. Learning is a living, it's not a stagnant informational data bank. So this is how education is to me.”

Tiokasin Ghosthorse is a member of the Cheyenne River Lakota Nation of South Dakota and has a long history with Indigenous activism and advocacy. Tiokasin is the Founder, Host and Executive Producer of “First Voices Radio” (formerly “First Voices Indigenous Radio”) for the last 31 years in New York City and Seattle/Olympia, Washington. In 2016, he received a Nomination for the Nobel Peace Prize from the International Institute of Peace Studies and Global Philosophy. Other recent recognitions include: Native Arts and Cultures Foundation National Fellowship in Music (2016), National Endowment for the Arts National Heritage Fellowship Nominee (2017), Indigenous Music Award Nominee for Best Instrumental Album (2019) and National Native American Hall of Fame Nominee (2018, 2019). He also was recently nominated for “Nominee for the 2020 Americans for the Arts Johnson Fellowship for Artists Transforming Communities”. He is the Founder of Akantu Intelligence.

https://firstvoicesindigenousradio.org/
https://akantuintelligence.org

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

Songs featured on this episode are “Butterfly Against the Wind”
And from the album Somewhere In There
“Spatial Moon” and “Sunrise Moon”
Composed by Tiokasin Ghosthorse and Alex Alexander
Music on this episode is courtesy of Tiokasin Ghosthorse.

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How can we learn to speak the language of the Earth and cultivate our intuitive intelligence?

Tiokasin Ghosthorse is a member of the Cheyenne River Lakota Nation of South Dakota and has a long history with Indigenous activism and advocacy. Tiokasin is the Founder, Host and Executive Producer of “First Voices Radio” (formerly “First Voices Indigenous Radio”) for the last 31 years in New York City and Seattle/Olympia, Washington. In 2016, he received a Nomination for the Nobel Peace Prize from the International Institute of Peace Studies and Global Philosophy. Other recent recognitions include: Native Arts and Cultures Foundation National Fellowship in Music (2016), National Endowment for the Arts National Heritage Fellowship Nominee (2017), Indigenous Music Award Nominee for Best Instrumental Album (2019) and National Native American Hall of Fame Nominee (2018, 2019). He also was recently nominated for “Nominee for the 2020 Americans for the Arts Johnson Fellowship for Artists Transforming Communities”. He is the Founder of Akantu Intelligence.

“I'll go with cultural etymology of this language English. And the word education where does it come from? Well, it comes from scholars and whatever, but the etymology of the word education, what does it mean? It means to adduce or seduce. And there's different evolutions of the word, and in one dictionary I saw before 1940 says, of course, to adduce or seduce, but it also says 'to draw out or lead away from' - and get this - 'to lead away from spirit.' And what has it done? Replaced, draw out, or lead away from spirit. So what that's done is replace it with information and knowledge. And that's control by domination. Here's how: So schools started out in the Catholic churches, because the monks, they drew the monks away when they were boys to read and script and to keep this educational process moving. So they were away from nature and only of men's minds. So it's a controlled education where you're instructed mechanically to get the right answer. Where in Native is that we are shown the possibilities, and we're able to choose freely about what we're shown. We're never told to do this or say that or we were shown because it was a living and is a living language. Learning is a living, it's not a stagnant informational data bank. So this is how education is to me.”

https://firstvoicesindigenousradio.org/
https://akantuintelligence.org

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

Songs featured on this episode are “Butterfly Against the Wind”
And from the album Somewhere In There
“Spatial Moon” and “Sunrise Moon”
Composed by Tiokasin Ghosthorse and Alex Alexander
Music on this episode is courtesy of Tiokasin Ghosthorse.

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"If Elon Musk, who is working on Androids, comes to the universities and says, 'I have this AI-powered Android that is programmed to teach quantum mechanics at the highest level.' You put that in front of a class of students, and you will have instantaneous access to all the books on quantum mechanics, all the knowledge in physics, and it will never forget anything, never make a mistake, never ask for annual leave, never be ill and will never ask for a pension, this is a one-off investment for the university and far superior than any academic on the planet. This is the future of education. When is it going to happen? I don't know. I just hope I reach retirement age first because this will happen."

Dr. Melvin M. Vopson is Associate Professor of Physics at the University of Portsmouth, Fellow of the Higher Education Academy, Chartered Physicist and Fellow of the Institute of Physics. He is the co-founder and CEO of the Information Physics Institute, editor-in-chief of the IPI Letters and Emerging Minds Journal for Student Research. He is the author of Reality Reloaded: The Scientific Case for a Simulated Universe. Dr. Vopson has a wide-ranging scientific expertise in experimental, applied and theoretical physics that is internationally recognized. He has published over 100 research articles, achieving over 2500 citations.

https://www.port.ac.uk/about-us/structure-and-governance/our-people/our-staff/melvin-vopson

https://ipipublishing.org/index.php/ipil/RR

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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Are we living in a Simulated Universe? How will AI impact the future of work, society & education?

Dr. Melvin M. Vopson is Associate Professor of Physics at the University of Portsmouth, Fellow of the Higher Education Academy, Chartered Physicist and Fellow of the Institute of Physics. He is the co-founder and CEO of the Information Physics Institute, editor-in-chief of the IPI Letters and Emerging Minds Journal for Student Research. He is the author of Reality Reloaded: The Scientific Case for a Simulated Universe. Dr. Vopson has a wide-ranging scientific expertise in experimental, applied and theoretical physics that is internationally recognized. He has published over 100 research articles, achieving over 2500 citations.

"If Elon Musk, who is working on Androids, comes to the universities and says, 'I have this AI-powered Android that is programmed to teach quantum mechanics at the highest level.' You put that in front of a class of students, and you will have instantaneous access to all the books on quantum mechanics, all the knowledge in physics, and it will never forget anything, never make a mistake, never ask for annual leave, never be ill and will never ask for a pension, this is a one-off investment for the university and far superior than any academic on the planet. This is the future of education. When is it going to happen? I don't know. I just hope I reach retirement age first because this will happen."

https://www.port.ac.uk/about-us/structure-and-governance/our-people/our-staff/melvin-vopson

https://ipipublishing.org/index.php/ipil/RR

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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"One of the big differences I've noticed talking with people from more communally oriented cultures is that American culture has a strong emphasis on the individual on individual happiness, individual achievement on individual self-expression. And there are other cultures where the community, the family, and the neighborhood where they live and the well-being of others are paramount and are the first thing they think about. The most exemplary instance of that is in Bhutan, where they can't even propose a law for the legislature to consider unless they have a full section describing the effect on the community of any given law, the effect on the well-being of the whole population. So nothing is about the individual. It's all about the collective."

What makes a good life? How important are relationships in helping us lead happy and meaningful lives?

Dr. Robert Waldinger is a professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School, director of the Harvard Study of Adult Development at Massachusetts General Hospital, and cofounder of the Lifespan Research Foundation. Dr. Waldinger received his AB from Harvard College and his MD from Harvard Medical School. He is a practicing psychiatrist and psychoanalyst, and he directs a psychotherapy teaching program for Harvard psychiatry residents. He is also a Zen master (Roshi) and teaches meditation in New England and around the world. His TED Talk about the Harvard study “What makes a good life?” has been viewed more than 42 million times and is one of the 10 most watched TED Talks ever. He is co-author of The Good Life: Lessons from the World's Longest Scientific Study of Happiness.

https://www.robertwaldinger.com/
https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/The-Good-Life/Robert-Waldinger/9781982166694
https://www.adultdevelopmentstudy.org/https://www.lifespanresearch.org

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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What makes a good life? How important are relationships in helping us lead happy and meaningful lives?

Dr. Robert Waldinger is a professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School, director of the Harvard Study of Adult Development at Massachusetts General Hospital, and cofounder of the Lifespan Research Foundation. Dr. Waldinger received his AB from Harvard College and his MD from Harvard Medical School. He is a practicing psychiatrist and psychoanalyst, and he directs a psychotherapy teaching program for Harvard psychiatry residents. He is also a Zen master (Roshi) and teaches meditation in New England and around the world. His TED Talk about the Harvard study “What makes a good life?” has been viewed more than 42 million times and is one of the 10 most watched TED Talks ever. He is co-author of The Good Life: Lessons from the World's Longest Scientific Study of Happiness.

"One of the big differences I've noticed talking with people from more communally oriented cultures is that American culture has a strong emphasis on the individual on individual happiness, individual achievement on individual self-expression. And there are other cultures where the community, the family, and the neighborhood where they live and the well-being of others are paramount and are the first thing they think about. The most exemplary instance of that is in Bhutan, where they can't even propose a law for the legislature to consider unless they have a full section describing the effect on the community of any given law, the effect on the well-being of the whole population. So nothing is about the individual. It's all about the collective."

https://www.robertwaldinger.com/
https://www.simonandschuster.com/books/The-Good-Life/Robert-Waldinger/9781982166694
https://www.adultdevelopmentstudy.org/https://www.lifespanresearch.org

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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“I would love if young people understood that art is one of the things that make you a human and not a robot. That's the difference. And if we could pass on that message, what makes us human beings, it's exactly our ability to feel. We need to do it in the schools and the teacher should be the most important person in the world right now - good teachers who pass that message to young people. They need to focus on the important things to get that capacity to concentrate. If we lose the concentration capacity, then we are becoming robots, and so for me, the challenge is really for the young people and teachers, telling them the importance of paying attention to the important things.”

Bernardo Moreira is one of the most active Portuguese double bassists. He has performed as a guest soloist with Gulbenkian, Metropolitan de Lisboa, and Nacional do Porto orchestras, and gained prominence for his collaborations with international artists, including the legendary Benny Colson, Freddie Hubbard, Wayne Shorter, Art Farmer, and Kenny Wheeler. He is a regular collaborator with many jazz musicians in Portugal, participating in formations such as the Maria João/Mário Laginha quartet, the Mário Laginha trio, and singer Cristina Branco. In 2021, he released Enter Paredes, and in 2022, he led Cantina’s de Main and SUL.

www.clavenamao.org
https://open.spotify.com/artist/0Yse2njeXg2XDiQmmxhAc5

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast
Music on this episode:

António Marinheiro, Bernardo Moreira Sextet, from the album Entre Paredes

PROMESSAS MIX V3 ULT from SUL
Courtesy of Bernardo Moreira

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Bernardo Moreira is one of the most active Portuguese double bassists. He has performed as a guest soloist with Gulbenkian, Metropolitan de Lisboa, and Nacional do Porto orchestras, and gained prominence for his collaborations with international artists, including the legendary Benny Colson, Freddie Hubbard, Wayne Shorter, Art Farmer, and Kenny Wheeler. He is a regular collaborator with many jazz musicians in Portugal, participating in formations such as the Maria João/Mário Laginha quartet, the Mário Laginha trio, and singer Cristina Branco. In 2021, he released Enter Paredes, and in 2022, he led Cantina’s de Main and SUL.

“I would love if young people understood that art is one of the things that make you a human and not a robot. That's the difference. And if we could pass on that message, what makes us human beings, it's exactly our ability to feel. We need to do it in the schools and the teacher should be the most important person in the world right now - good teachers who pass that message to young people. They need to focus on the important things to get that capacity to concentrate. If we lose the concentration capacity, then we are becoming robots, and so for me, the challenge is really for the young people and teachers, telling them the importance of paying attention to the important things.”

www.clavenamao.org
https://open.spotify.com/artist/0Yse2njeXg2XDiQmmxhAc5

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast
Music on this episode:

António Marinheiro, Bernardo Moreira Sextet, from the album Entre Paredes

PROMESSAS MIX V3 ULT from SUL
Courtesy of Bernardo Moreira

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"Meta reaches between three and four billion people every day through their platforms, right? That's way more people than any government legitimately can claim to govern. And yet this one company with four major platforms that many of us use is able to reach so many people and make decisions about content and access that have real consequences. It's been shown they fueled genocide in multiple places like in Ethiopia and Myanmar. And I think that's exactly why human rights matter because human rights are obligations that states have signed on for, and they're supposed to protect human values. And I think from a human rights perspective, it's important to argue that we shouldn't be collecting certain types of data because it's excessive. It's violating autonomy. It starts violating dignity. And when you start violating autonomy and dignity through the collection of data, you can't just go back and fix that by making it private.”

Does privacy exist anymore? Or are humans just sets of data to be traded and sold?

Wendy H. Wong is Professor of Political Science and Principal's Research Chair at the University of British Columbia, Okanagan. She is the author of two award-winning books: Internal Affairs: How the Structure of NGOs Transforms Human Rights and (with Sarah S. Stroup) The Authority Trap: Strategic Choices of International NGOs. Her latest book is We, the Data: Human Rights in the Digital Age.

www.wendyhwong.com
https://mitpress.mit.edu/author/wendy-h-wong-38397

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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Does privacy exist anymore? Or are humans just sets of data to be traded and sold?

Wendy H. Wong is Professor of Political Science and Principal's Research Chair at the University of British Columbia, Okanagan. She is the author of two award-winning books: Internal Affairs: How the Structure of NGOs Transforms Human Rights and (with Sarah S. Stroup) The Authority Trap: Strategic Choices of International NGOs. Her latest book is We, the Data: Human Rights in the Digital Age.

"Meta reaches between three and four billion people every day through their platforms, right? That's way more people than any government legitimately can claim to govern. And yet this one company with four major platforms that many of us use is able to reach so many people and make decisions about content and access that have real consequences. It's been shown they fueled genocide in multiple places like in Ethiopia and Myanmar. And I think that's exactly why human rights matter because human rights are obligations that states have signed on for, and they're supposed to protect human values. And I think from a human rights perspective, it's important to argue that we shouldn't be collecting certain types of data because it's excessive. It's violating autonomy. It starts violating dignity. And when you start violating autonomy and dignity through the collection of data, you can't just go back and fix that by making it private.”

www.wendyhwong.com
https://mitpress.mit.edu/author/wendy-h-wong-38397

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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The more the science of intelligence (both human and artificial) advances, the more it holds the potential for great benefits and dangers to society.

Max Bennett is the cofounder and CEO of Alby, a start-up that helps companies integrate large language models into their websites to create guided shopping and search experiences. Previously, Bennett was the cofounder and chief product offi­cer of Bluecore, one of the fastest growing companies in the U.S., providing AI technologies to some of the largest companies in the world. Bluecore has been featured in the annual Inc. 500 fastest growing com­panies, as well as Glassdoor’s 50 best places to work in the U.S. Bluecore was recently valued at over $1 bil­lion. Bennett holds several patents for AI technologies and has published numerous scientific papers in peer-reviewed journals on the topics of evolutionary neuro­science and the neocortex. He has been featured on the Forbes 30 Under 30 list as well as the Built In NYC’s 30 Tech Leaders Under 30. He is the author of A Brief History of Intelligence: Evolution, AI, and the Five Breakthroughs That Made Our Brains.

"I do think there's a very real possibility that we will find that in order to have super-intelligent systems that are energy efficient, we need wetware. I mean, the difference in the energy cost of running ChatGPT versus a human brain is astronomical. A human brain runs on the amount of energy of about a light bulb, which is a crazy thing to realize how energy efficient the thing in our head is that creates all of the amazing intelligence we have, all of the common sense, sentience itself. And ChatGPT, which captures only a small fraction of that is consuming way more energy."

www.abriefhistoryofintelligence.com/
www.alby.com
www.bluecore.com

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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"We're polluting the air that we breathe. We're polluting the seas and the waters. We're polluting the soil. We're polluting every aspect of our lives. So there's no getting away from it. That's absolutely sure. And yes, there is absolutely a way forward to make change. And yes, it is a question of relearning so much, without question. I mean, part of the reason that not only did I start the White Feather Foundation with indigenous tribes in mind back then. And then, one of the key ways forward for me was education, of course. I think that's been part of our problem worldwide. People just haven't known how serious or taken it seriously enough before. And there's so much propaganda that's misinformation that's pushed out into the world. You see in the film as well how the truth gets pushed away and shoved aside by money and greed and corporations. And that's a really difficult one to get over, but, you know, writing the children's books was a way to get in the same theme. Again, not shoving it down their throats, but presenting the situation as is and getting children to say...Reading and asking and reminding their parents, and relearning as well. Why is there plastic in the water? Why don't they have any water over there? Why, do you know, why? And there are answers for all of this, and the parents need to pick up on that too.

But this should be made, you know, these two films and many more should be mandatory. I mean, you want to talk about Clockwork Orange...I don't mean pinning their eyes back, you know, forcing them to watch the film, but certainly, this really should become part of the curriculum in many ways.

I hate to use the word logic all the time, but if you're not ignorant and you have an understanding about the world around you, then you know how you can help it. You can know how to make changes and how to move forward. And this is exactly what these films do.

So, may that Josh and Rebecca and everybody who supports them continue moving forward and making more films because until things change, which they are changing, thankfully. I think it's a real credit to Josh and Rebecca, how many lives they've changed and how many eyes and ears they've opened through the course of their filmmaking."

How can the arts inspire us to lead lives of greater meaning and connection? What kind of world are we leaving for future generations?

Julian Lennon is a Grammy-nominated singer-songwriter, photographer, documentary filmmaker, and NYTimes bestselling author of children's books. Executive Producer of Common Ground and its predecessor Kiss the Ground, which reached over 1 billion people and inspired the US Department of Agriculture (USDA) to put $20 billion toward soil health. The natural world and indigenous people are also the focus of Lennon’s other documentaries Whaledreamers, and Women of the White Buffalo. In 2007, Julian founded the global environmental and humanitarian organization The White Feather Foundation, whose key initiatives are education, health, conservation, and the protection of indigenous culture, causes he also advances through his photography, exhibited across the US and Europe. His latest album Jude spans a body of work created over the last 30 years. Julian was named a Peace Laureate by UNESCO in 2020.

https://julianlennon.com
https://commongroundfilm.org
https://kissthegroundmovie.com
https://whitefeatherfoundation.com
https://julianlennon.lnk.to/JudeWE
https://julianlennon-photography.com

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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How can the arts inspire us to lead lives of greater meaning and connection? What kind of world are we leaving for future generations?

Julian Lennon is a Grammy-nominated singer-songwriter, photographer, documentary filmmaker, and NYTimes bestselling author of children's books. Executive Producer of Common Ground and its predecessor Kiss the Ground, which reached over 1 billion people and inspired the US Department of Agriculture (USDA) to put $20 billion toward soil health. The natural world and indigenous people are also the focus of Lennon’s other documentaries Whaledreamers, and Women of the White Buffalo. In 2007, Julian founded the global environmental and humanitarian organization The White Feather Foundation, whose key initiatives are education, health, conservation, and the protection of indigenous culture, causes he also advances through his photography, exhibited across the US and Europe. His latest album Jude spans a body of work created over the last 30 years. Julian was named a Peace Laureate by UNESCO in 2020.

"We're polluting the air that we breathe. We're polluting the seas and the waters. We're polluting the soil. We're polluting every aspect of our lives. So there's no getting away from it. That's absolutely sure. And yes, there is absolutely a way forward to make change. And yes, it is a question of relearning so much, without question. I mean, part of the reason that not only did I start the White Feather Foundation with indigenous tribes in mind back then. And then, one of the key ways forward for me was education, of course. I think that's been part of our problem worldwide. People just haven't known how serious or taken it seriously enough before. And there's so much propaganda that's misinformation that's pushed out into the world. You see in the film as well how the truth gets pushed away and shoved aside by money and greed and corporations. And that's a really difficult one to get over, but, you know, writing the children's books was a way to get in the same theme. Again, not shoving it down their throats, but presenting the situation as is and getting children to say...Reading and asking and reminding their parents, and relearning as well. Why is there plastic in the water? Why don't they have any water over there? Why, do you know, why? And there are answers for all of this, and the parents need to pick up on that too.

But this should be made, you know, these two films and many more should be mandatory. I mean, you want to talk about Clockwork Orange...I don't mean pinning their eyes back, you know, forcing them to watch the film, but certainly, this really should become part of the curriculum in many ways.

I hate to use the word logic all the time, but if you're not ignorant and you have an understanding about the world around you, then you know how you can help it. You can know how to make changes and how to move forward. And this is exactly what these films do.

So, may that Josh and Rebecca and everybody who supports them continue moving forward and making more films because until things change, which they are changing, thankfully. I think it's a real credit to Josh and Rebecca, how many lives they've changed and how many eyes and ears they've opened through the course of their filmmaking."

https://julianlennon.com
https://commongroundfilm.org
https://kissthegroundmovie.com
https://whitefeatherfoundation.com
https://julianlennon.lnk.to/JudeWE
https://julianlennon-photography.com

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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How can we resolve conflicts without compromising our ethics and moral vision? Each year, wars are being fought in our name or with our support that citizens never get an opportunity to vote on. How can we make our voices heard?

“Warism, taking war for granted as morally acceptable, even morally required, is the primary obstacle to peace.” Duane L. Cady is a philosopher and Professor Emeritus at Hamline University. He was nominated for the 1991 Grawemeyer World Order Award, was named Outstanding Educator of the Year by the United Methodist Foundation for Higher Education, and a festschiff in his honor was published in 2012. Cady is best known for his works on pacifism, including Moral Vision: How Everyday Life Shapes Ethical Thinking, and From Warism to Pacifism: A Moral Continuum.

"So when I think about the importance of the liberal arts and the humanities, they literally are the skills that free us. I think our freedom depends on the liberal arts, learning about music, learning about mathematics, learning about history, reading books, the kinds of things that we need that are not going to turn into a market job, at least not immediately. But employers understand they need people who can think, and who are articulate when it comes to speaking and writing. And I also think the humanities generally are well-named because they in fact humanize us. Once we see the rich literature, artwork, theater, and so on, of previous generations, it gives us a much deeper perspective on who we might be, and how we might put our freedom and lives to good use."

https://duanelcady.com

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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How do we define intelligence? What is the point of creativity and intelligence if we are not creating good in the world? In this age of AI, what is the importance of a synthesizing mind?

Howard Gardner, Research Professor of Cognition and Education at the Harvard Graduate School of Education, an author of over 30 books, translated into 32 languages, and several hundred articles, is best known for his theory of multiple intelligences, a critique of the notion that there exists but a single human intelligence that can be assessed by standard psychometric instruments. He has twice been selected by Foreign Policy and Prospect magazines as one of the 100 most influential public intellectuals in the world. In the last few years, Gardner has been studying the nature of human synthesizing, a topic introduced in his 2020 memoir, A Synthesizing Mind.

For 28 years, with David Perkins, he was Co-Director of Harvard Project Zero, and in more recent years has served in a variety of leadership positions. Since the middle 1990s, Gardner has directed The Good Project, a group of initiatives, founded in collaboration with psychologists Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi and William Damon. The project promotes excellence, engagement, and ethics in education, preparing students to become good workers and good citizens who contribute to the overall well-being of society. Through research-based concepts, frameworks, and resources, The Good Project seeks to help students reflect upon the ethical dilemmas that arise in everyday life and give them the tools to make thoughtful decisions.

"The garden that makes up one's mind is always to some extent the flowers and trees that we get from our families genetically, but also we get from our families culturally.

I actually finished my mulitiple intelligences work 40 years ago. And since then, I've been focused with colleagues on what we call good work and good citizenship. And our study of good work, we studied nine different professionals dealing from law and medicine to journalism to teaching. And we found out people who were admired and to find out why these professionals were admired. And we found out they were admired for three things. One, how excellently they carried out their work. And of course, that's important. Number two, how engaged they were. To what extent do they really like their work, want to do it, and feel good about being at work rather than dreading it? And three, and what you're touching on, did they carry out the work in an ethical way? Now, when it's absolutely clear what to do in a situation, then you don't call it ethical. Ethical is what do you do when a situation is complicated? Let's say you're a lawyer and you find that the client lies to you. Do you let the client lie on the stand? Or do you say, 'No, I'm not going to be your lawyer if you're going to lie.' If you're a doctor, and there are two people who have the same injury and one is a relative and the other is a stranger, what do you do? If you're a journalist, and you're covering a story and you see a crime occurring, should you remain a journalist and cover it? Or should you call the police and become an accessory? So we're very, very interested in how people deal with ethical issues. Now, as you are anticipating. The issues of excellence, engagement, and ethics, they have to be reexamined in an era when there are computational systems which are clearly as excellent as any human being can do, maybe more excellent.”

www.howardgardner.com
http://thegoodproject.org
https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262542838/a-synthesizing-mind

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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In this episode of the Speaking Out of Place podcast, Professor David Palumbo-Liu talks with legendary climate activist Bill McKibben and scholar Caroline Levine. McKibben relates his long struggle to get companies to divest from fossil fuels and for the world in general to act immediately to seriously and substantially address this existential crisis. Levine tells of her efforts to get the giant pension fund, TIAA-CREF, to divest. She also talks about her new book, The Activist Humanist, and its relation to both her teaching and her activism.

Bill McKibben is founder of Third Act, which organizes people over the age of 60 for action on climate and justice. His 1989 book The End of Nature is regarded as the first book for a general audience about climate change, and has appeared in 24 languages. He’s gone on to write 20 books, and his work appears regularly in periodicals from the New Yorker to Rolling Stone. He serves as the Schumann Distinguished Scholar in Environmental Studies at Middlebury College, as a fellow of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, and he has won the Gandhi Peace Prize as well as honorary degrees from 20 colleges and universities. He was awarded the Right Livelihood Award, sometimes called the alternative Nobel, in the Swedish Parliament. Foreign Policy named him to its inaugural list of the world’s 100 most important global thinkers.

McKibben helped found 350.org, the first global grassroots climate campaign, which has organized protests on every continent, including Antarctica, for climate action. He played a leading role in launching the opposition to big oil pipeline projects like Keystone XL, and the fossil fuel divestment campaign, which has become the biggest anti-corporate campaign in history, with endowments worth more than $40 trillion stepping back from oil, gas and coal. He stepped down as board chair of 350 in 2015, and left the board and stepped down from his volunteer role as senior adviser in 2020, accepting emeritus status. He lives in the mountains above Lake Champlain with his wife, the writer Sue Halpern, where he spends as much time as possible outdoors. In 2014, biologists credited his career by naming a new species of woodland gnat—Megophthalmidia mckibbeni–in his honor.

Caroline Levine has spent her career asking how and why the humanities and the arts matter, especially in democratic societies. She argues for an understanding of forms and structures as essential both to understanding links between art and society and to the challenge of taking meaningful political action. She is the author of four books. The most recent, The Activist Humanist: Form and Method in the Climate Crisis (Princeton University Press 2023), grows out of the theoretical work of Forms: Whole, Rhythm, Hierarchy, Network (2015, winner of the James Russell Lowell Prize from the MLA, and named one of Flavorwire’s “10 Must-Read Academic Books of 2015”). Levine has also published The Serious Pleasures of Suspense: Victorian Realism and Narrative Doubt (2003, winner of the Perkins Prize for the best book in narrative studies) and Provoking Democracy: Why We Need the Arts (2007).

"Viewed one way, we live in a very hopeful moment. Thanks to in large part the work of university scientists and engineers, we now live on a planet where the cheapest way to produce power is to point a sheet of glass at the sun. That is to say, we could run our Earth on energy from heaven instead of hell, and we could do it fast. The fast is the hard part here. The only difference between all the examples of the long victories of social justice activism that we're in now is that this one is a time-limited problem. If we don't solve it fast, then no one's got a plan for how you refreeze the Arctic once you've melted it. And so we have to move very quickly. Our systems are not designed to move quickly. It's the easiest thing in the world to slow down and delay change, which is all that the fossil fuel industry at this point is trying to do, and that means that it's time for maximum effort from all of us. The story to tell is that the planet is outside its comfort zone, so we need to be outside ours."

https://billmckibben.com
https://350.org
https://thirdact.org

https://english.cornell.edu/caroline-levine
https://press.princeton.edu/books/paperback/9780691250588/the-activist-humanist
https://tiaa-divest.org

www.palumbo-liu.com
https://speakingoutofplace.com
https://twitter.com/palumboliu?s=20

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How do some people face incredible tragedies and find within these experiences inspiration to improve the lives of others? Our guest today lost her grandfather, who was the assassinated Prime Minister of the Buganda Kingdom, and her father, who was disappeared by Idi Amin, and yet she went on to become a leading conservationist.

Dr. Gladys Kalema-Zikusoka is Uganda's first full-time wildlife veterinarian and the Founder and CEO of Conservation Through Public Health. Interested in animals from a young age, she pursued her studies at the Royal Veterinary College at the University of London before returning to Uganda. In the time since, she's worked tirelessly to preserve the animals of Uganda, being awarded the Whitley Gold Award, Sierra Club Earth Care Award, Edinburgh Medal, National Geographic Explorer, and most recently an appointment to become a United Nations Champion of the Earth for Science and Innovation. She is author of Walking with Gorillas: The Journey of an African Wildlife Vet.

"We've actually started engaging youth more. And we've recently got funding from National Geographic to support 10 to 24-year-old children, both youth and school groups. And it's a STEM project with art. And they're coming up with their own projects for recycling, removing rubbish, all kinds of things, reducing firewood use in the forest. And all of that is helping. And from a young age, these students hopefully will end up becoming conservationists in the long term. So even if they're in Parliament, they're the kind of people, if someone says, 'Let's cut down trees, plant sugar cane.' They will be the first to say, 'No, this won't happen.' And if you have a critical mass of people who can stop such decisions from being made, then wildlife has a very secure future. And so do the people who are living in the countries where the wildlife is found."

www.ctph.org
https://www.skyhorsepublishing.com/9781950994267/walking-with-gorillas/

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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A recent UN report shows that women are underrepresented at all levels of decision-making worldwide. They say that women in executive government positions and gender equality in the highest positions of power will not be reached for another 130 years. How can we close the gender gap and achieve true representation?

With a distinguished career in public service, Mary Hayashi has spearheaded substantial reforms in mental health services, championed gender equality, and forged powerful, unprecedented partnerships for social causes that previously had no financial or public backing. Recognized as “Legislator of the Year” by the American Red Cross and the California Medical Association, Mary has also been featured on Redbook’s “Mothers and Shakers” list and Ladies’ Home Journal ’s “Women to Watch.” Mary remains a steadfast proponent of social justice expansion and the rights of underrepresented communities. She is author of Far From Home: Shattering the Myth of the Model Minority, and Women in Politics: Breaking Down the Barriers to Achieve True Representation.

"One of the studies I mentioned in the book is people don't see women as leaders and the barriers you experience as a candidate during a campaign. And even after you win and you're serving inside the government, there are still challenges to overcome. Last year, we had a record number of women elected and becoming leaders in government positions, but it doesn't mean their path is easy or it's set. Because of gender bias, women are supposed to be coalition builders and not supposed to be ambitious. One of the things that I talk a lot about is the ambition gap. When women show ambition, we're penalized. People are often suspicious of our motivation. It's like, why is she running? What is she about? And being an Asian American woman, I was perceived by my colleagues after I won and chaired one of the most powerful policy committees in the legislature, I often felt like people didn't know how to engage with me as a peer. They'd never seen an Asian American woman in that role before and so they would criticize me for being too ambitious or too aggressive, or too opinionated. And that really takes a toll on you just emotionally. I wasn't raised that way, but when you have an opinion, people are just not used to seeing Asian women as peers in that role and that really needs to change. And I think it will over time as they see more people like us serving in leadership roles."

www.maryhayashi.com
https://womeninpoliticsbook.org

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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"I think that critical thinking, especially in our day and age, it's probably one of the most important mechanisms that we should endow children with: not to accept things as they are. Especially, not to accept things as they seem in social media. Always question not only others but also oneself and try to take the other perspective, try to question your beliefs. Ask yourself how many of those beliefs are genuine and how many have been shaped by past experiences, by manipulations, and so on. And I think that if we can build a society with critical thinkers, self-doubters, and modest people, then we would live in a better place. And I can only hope this message is heard."

How we think, feel, and experience the world is a mystery. What distinguishes our consciousness from AI and machine learning?

Liad Mudrik studies high level cognition and its neural substrates, focusing on conscious experience. She teaches at the School of Psychological Sciences at Tel Aviv University. At her research lab, her team is currently investigating the functionality of consciousness, trying to unravel the depth and limits of unconscious processing, and also researching the ways semantic relations between concepts and objects are formed and detected.

https://people.socsci.tau.ac.il/mu/mudriklab
https://people.socsci.tau.ac.il/mu/mudriklab/people/#gkit-popup

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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How we think, feel, and experience the world is a mystery. What distinguishes our consciousness from AI and machine learning?

Liad Mudrik studies high level cognition and its neural substrates, focusing on conscious experience. She teaches at the School of Psychological Sciences at Tel Aviv University. At her research lab, her team is currently investigating the functionality of consciousness, trying to unravel the depth and limits of unconscious processing, and also researching the ways semantic relations between concepts and objects are formed and detected.

"I think that critical thinking, especially in our day and age, it's probably one of the most important mechanisms that we should endow children with: not to accept things as they are. Especially, not to accept things as they seem in social media. Always question not only others but also oneself and try to take the other perspective, try to question your beliefs. Ask yourself how many of those beliefs are genuine and how many have been shaped by past experiences, by manipulations, and so on. And I think that if we can build a society with critical thinkers, self-doubters, and modest people, then we would live in a better place. And I can only hope this message is heard."

https://people.socsci.tau.ac.il/mu/mudriklab
https://people.socsci.tau.ac.il/mu/mudriklab/people/#gkit-popup

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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“Coral reefs are the most biodiverse habitat on the planet, despite covering less than 1 percent of the ocean area, over a quarter of all marine life exists in these rainforests of the sea. And if you think of a coral reef as a rainforest, the trees are the coral themselves. Which are incredible organisms, so, magic is really the right word to describe them. They're these animals that are one of the original forms of animal life, the second branch of the animal kingdom is actually Cnidaria, which includes coral and jellyfish. So, an ancient animal, but they have a symbiotic relationship with algae, and so inside the animal tissue are these zooxanthellae, these algae that do photosynthesis, like algae do, like plants do. It's able to capture sunlight and convert it into sugars and energy. And so, it's an animal, but it's got plants that live inside it, this algae, and then even more wild - it grows a skeleton that is rock!

So coral skeleton is actually calcium carbonate, which is limestone. And most of the limestone that exists on the earth was grown by these organisms. And so they're animals with plants inside of them that grow rock as skeleton. And the rock skeletons form these incredibly intricate structures that are coral reefs that can grow for thousands of miles and the corals can live for thousands of years to be seen from space and to create these essential ecosystems that are really the cornerstone of all of life in the ocean and, and therefore much of life on Earth.”

Coral reefs are the most biodiverse habitat on the planet, despite covering less than 1 percent of the ocean. Over a quarter of all marine life exists in these rain forests of the sea.

Gator Halpern is the Co-founder and President of Coral Vita, a mission-driven company working to restore our world’s dying coral reefs. He is a lifelong entrepreneur who is passionate about starting projects that can help create a better harmony between society and nature. His work has earned him a number of awards including being named a United Nation’s Young Champion of the Earth, a Forbes 30 Under 30 social entrepreneur, and an Echoing Green fellow. Before founding Coral Vita, he worked on development projects in Brazil, Peru, and South Africa. During his career, he has helped distribute millions of baby fish for aquaculture to remote villages in the Amazon, he’s analyzed the environmental effects of land-use change projects on three different continents, and worked for the World Wildlife Fund Global Marine Program. Gator founded Coral Vita during his graduate studies at the Yale School of Forestry and Environmental Studies, and he lives and works in the Bahamas where Coral Vita operates the world’s first commercial land-based coral farm for reef restoration.

https://coralvita.co

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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Coral reefs are the most biodiverse habitat on the planet, despite covering less than 1 percent of the ocean. Over a quarter of all marine life exists in these rain forests of the sea.

Gator Halpern is the Co-founder and President of Coral Vita, a mission-driven company working to restore our world’s dying coral reefs. He is a lifelong entrepreneur who is passionate about starting projects that can help create a better harmony between society and nature. His work has earned him a number of awards including being named a United Nation’s Young Champion of the Earth, a Forbes 30 Under 30 social entrepreneur, and an Echoing Green fellow. Before founding Coral Vita, he worked on development projects in Brazil, Peru, and South Africa. During his career, he has helped distribute millions of baby fish for aquaculture to remote villages in the Amazon, he’s analyzed the environmental effects of land-use change projects on three different continents, and worked for the World Wildlife Fund Global Marine Program. Gator founded Coral Vita during his graduate studies at the Yale School of Forestry and Environmental Studies, and he lives and works in the Bahamas where Coral Vita operates the world’s first commercial land-based coral farm for reef restoration.

“Coral reefs are the most biodiverse habitat on the planet, despite covering less than 1 percent of the ocean area, over a quarter of all marine life exists in these rainforests of the sea. And if you think of a coral reef as a rainforest, the trees are the coral themselves. Which are incredible organisms, so, magic is really the right word to describe them. They're these animals that are one of the original forms of animal life, the second branch of the animal kingdom is actually Cnidaria, which includes coral and jellyfish. So, an ancient animal, but they have a symbiotic relationship with algae, and so inside the animal tissue are these zooxanthellae, these algae that do photosynthesis, like algae do, like plants do. It's able to capture sunlight and convert it into sugars and energy. And so, it's an animal, but it's got plants that live inside it, this algae, and then even more wild - it grows a skeleton that is rock!

So coral skeleton is actually calcium carbonate, which is limestone. And most of the limestone that exists on the earth was grown by these organisms. And so they're animals with plants inside of them that grow rock as skeleton. And the rock skeletons form these incredibly intricate structures that are coral reefs that can grow for thousands of miles and the corals can live for thousands of years to be seen from space and to create these essential ecosystems that are really the cornerstone of all of life in the ocean and, and therefore much of life on Earth.”

https://coralvita.co

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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"Learning about environmentalism in school, you look at specific figures like John Muir, etc. And I wanted people to also have that association when it came to the environmental justice movement because I think sometimes that really is a helpful learning tool for students.

So in particular, Hazel M. Johnson, I'm so fascinated by her because she's often not really written about in environmental textbooks at all. She was just a woman in Chicago who had no environmental experience, but she started realizing that a lot of people in her community, including her husband, were getting all sorts of forms of cancers and other heart diseases and things like that at what she suspected were alarming rates. So when she investigated, she found that her neighborhood was built on top of toxic waste and other things, and she defined this term called a toxic doughnut that her community and so many other communities that were similar to hers that were lower income and primarily Black neighborhoods that were formerly redlined were surrounded by a toxic doughnut of waste, of landfills, highways running through their neighborhoods, and sometimes even buried radioactive waste, etc.

So she was one of the first people who really made a stir about this, and I think something that's really cool in her work, and then also Dr. Robert Bullard, to formalize that research or that hunch that she had and produced the first study on toxic waste and race and really made the field of environmental justice is that they also were really just faith-based people that spoke about this amongst their churches.

And I think again, that's something that's really cool because in the environmental or scientific community, sometimes people do try to separate faith advocacy from science. However, these are people who were mobilizing in their churches and talking about it in their sermons and seeing how they could transform their communities to be better for people and the planet.

So I think it's just a great story, and I really want people to know the names of people like Hazel Johnson and Dr. Robert Bullard just like they know the names of people like John Muir because they've done such a beautiful job, and I want their legacies to be remembered."

Leah Thomas is an intersectional environmental activist and eco-communicator based in Southern California. She’s passionate about advocating for and exploring the relationship between social justice and environmentalism and was the first to define the term “Intersectional Environmentalism.” She is the founder of @greengirlleah and The Intersectional Environmentalist platform. Her articles on this topic have appeared in Vogue, Elle, The Good Trade, and Youth to the People and she has been featured in Harper’s Bazaar, W Magazine, Domino, GOOP, Fashionista, BuzzFeed, and numerous podcasts. She has a B.S. in Environmental Science and Policy from Chapman University and worked for the National Park Service and Patagonia headquarters before pursuing activism full time. She lives in Carpinteria, California. She is the author of The Intersectional Environmentalist: How to Dismantle Systems of Oppression to Protect People + Planet, and Winner of the Creative Force Foundation Award 2023.

www.intersectionalenvironmentalist.com
www.instagram.com/greengirlleah
www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/leah-thomas/the-intersectional-environmentalist/9780316281935/?lens=voracious

Season 2 of Business & Society focuses on CEOs , Sustainability & Environmental Solutions
Business & Society is a limited series co-hosted by Bruce Piasecki & Mia Funk
www.oneplanetpodcast.org

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Leah Thomas is an intersectional environmental activist and eco-communicator based in Southern California. She’s passionate about advocating for and exploring the relationship between social justice and environmentalism and was the first to define the term “Intersectional Environmentalism.” She is the founder of @greengirlleah and The Intersectional Environmentalist platform. Her articles on this topic have appeared in Vogue, Elle, The Good Trade, and Youth to the People and she has been featured in Harper’s Bazaar, W Magazine, Domino, GOOP, Fashionista, BuzzFeed, and numerous podcasts. She has a B.S. in Environmental Science and Policy from Chapman University and worked for the National Park Service and Patagonia headquarters before pursuing activism full time. She lives in Carpinteria, California. She is the author of The Intersectional Environmentalist: How to Dismantle Systems of Oppression to Protect People + Planet, and Winner of the Creative Force Foundation Award 2023.

"Learning about environmentalism in school, you look at specific figures like John Muir, etc. And I wanted people to also have that association when it came to the environmental justice movement because I think sometimes that really is a helpful learning tool for students.

So in particular, Hazel M. Johnson, I'm so fascinated by her because she's often not really written about in environmental textbooks at all. She was just a woman in Chicago who had no environmental experience, but she started realizing that a lot of people in her community, including her husband, were getting all sorts of forms of cancers and other heart diseases and things like that at what she suspected were alarming rates. So when she investigated, she found that her neighborhood was built on top of toxic waste and other things, and she defined this term called a toxic doughnut that her community and so many other communities that were similar to hers that were lower income and primarily Black neighborhoods that were formerly redlined were surrounded by a toxic doughnut of waste, of landfills, highways running through their neighborhoods, and sometimes even buried radioactive waste, etc.

So she was one of the first people who really made a stir about this, and I think something that's really cool in her work, and then also Dr. Robert Bullard, to formalize that research or that hunch that she had and produced the first study on toxic waste and race and really made the field of environmental justice is that they also were really just faith-based people that spoke about this amongst their churches.

And I think again, that's something that's really cool because in the environmental or scientific community, sometimes people do try to separate faith advocacy from science. However, these are people who were mobilizing in their churches and talking about it in their sermons and seeing how they could transform their communities to be better for people and the planet.

So I think it's just a great story, and I really want people to know the names of people like Hazel Johnson and Dr. Robert Bullard just like they know the names of people like John Muir because they've done such a beautiful job, and I want their legacies to be remembered."

www.intersectionalenvironmentalist.com
www.instagram.com/greengirlleah
www.hachettebookgroup.com/titles/leah-thomas/the-intersectional-environmentalist/9780316281935/?lens=voracious

Season 2 of Business & Society focuses on CEOs , Sustainability & Environmental Solutions
Business & Society is a limited series co-hosted by Bruce Piasecki & Mia Funk
www.oneplanetpodcast.org

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"I'm not against AI. I'm not against technology. I'm not against enhancements. You wear glasses. I wear glasses. That enhances your body, but you want to enhance yourself in such a way that you are following your humanity to the next step?

There's no reason that tools can't improve your humanity, but to go beyond your humanity or away from your humanity is a mistake. And so, until we ask ourselves these central basic questions. What am I? What am I doing here? How can we know whether we should use a machine or not? Because there's always going to be some billionaire idiot who thinks he's the smartest person on earth telling us we've got to implant this thing in our brain, or we're going to be less than the guy next to us."

What makes a good drama? What advantages do human storytellers have over their AI counterparts? Where do ideas come from? And what do spiritual beliefs share with artists' faith in the creative process?

Andrew Klavan is the author of such internationally bestselling crime novels as True Crime, filmed by Clint Eastwood, Don’t Say A Word, filmed starring Michael Douglas, Empire of Lies and When Christmas Comes. He has been nominated for the Mystery Writers of America’s Edgar Award five times and has won twice. He wrote the screenplays to A Shock to The System starring Michael Caine, One Missed Call starring Edward Burns, and Gosnell: The Trial of America’s Biggest Serial Killer starring Dean Cain. His essays have appeared in the Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, and the Los Angeles Times, his political satire videos have been viewed by tens of millions of people, and he hosts a popular podcast The Andrew Klavan Show at the Daily Wire. He is also the author of a memoir about his religious journey The Great Good Thing: A Secular Jew Comes to Faith in Christ and the USA Today bestseller The Truth and Beauty: How the Lives and Works of England's Greatest Poets Point the Way to a Deeper Understanding of the Words of Jesus. His latest crime novel is The House of Love and Death, the third book in the Cameron Winter series.

www.andrewklavan.com
www.amazon.com/House-Death-Cameron-Winter-Mysteries/dp/1613164467

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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What makes a good drama? What advantages do human storytellers have over their AI counterparts? Where do ideas come from? And what do spiritual beliefs share with artists' faith in the creative process?

Andrew Klavan is the author of such internationally bestselling crime novels as True Crime, filmed by Clint Eastwood, Don’t Say A Word, filmed starring Michael Douglas, Empire of Lies and When Christmas Comes. He has been nominated for the Mystery Writers of America’s Edgar Award five times and has won twice. He wrote the screenplays to A Shock to The System starring Michael Caine, One Missed Call starring Edward Burns, and Gosnell: The Trial of America’s Biggest Serial Killer starring Dean Cain. His essays have appeared in the Wall Street Journal, The New York Times, and the Los Angeles Times, his political satire videos have been viewed by tens of millions of people, and he hosts a popular podcast The Andrew Klavan Show at the Daily Wire. He is also the author of a memoir about his religious journey The Great Good Thing: A Secular Jew Comes to Faith in Christ and the USA Today bestseller The Truth and Beauty: How the Lives and Works of England's Greatest Poets Point the Way to a Deeper Understanding of the Words of Jesus. His latest crime novel is The House of Love and Death, the third book in the Cameron Winter series.

"I'm not against AI. I'm not against technology. I'm not against enhancements. You wear glasses. I wear glasses. That enhances your body, but you want to enhance yourself in such a way that you are following your humanity to the next step?

There's no reason that tools can't improve your humanity, but to go beyond your humanity or away from your humanity is a mistake. And so, until we ask ourselves these central basic questions. What am I? What am I doing here? How can we know whether we should use a machine or not? Because there's always going to be some billionaire idiot who thinks he's the smartest person on earth telling us we've got to implant this thing in our brain, or we're going to be less than the guy next to us."

www.andrewklavan.com
www.amazon.com/House-Death-Cameron-Winter-Mysteries/dp/1613164467

www.creativeprocess.info
www.oneplanetpodcast.org
IG www.instagram.com/creativeprocesspodcast

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“So I wrote this book and it was a lot of fun because I had to learn so much. The book examines three iconic teachers: Confucius, Socrates, and Jesus. And I look at how each of those teachers encourage a certain kind of student. The student as follower, someone who will take on the path that you've developed. In the case of Socrates, the student as critical interlocutor or critical conversation partner, someone who will, in dialogue with you, learn what they don't know, how to take things apart. And in the case of Jesus and the apostles, I look at trying to imitate a way of life to transform themselves to strive towards being the kind of person that Jesus incarnated. And so that's the beginning of the book, these models of studenthood, if I could use that word, and being a teacher. And then I look at the way in which these ideas reverberate in the West across a long period of time. So I'm interested in the idea of the student before there were schools. What did we expect young people to learn even when they weren't going to school?”