Better Words: Recent Episodes

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The Heartstopper series reaches its conclusion, with Volume 6 in Alice Oseman's beautiful YA graphic novel series and a Netflix movie. We're discussing both the graphic novel and our reactions to the Heartstopper Forever film.

Enjoyed this episode? Please share it with a bookish friend to help spread the word. Make sure you're following the podcast so new episodes appear in your feed as soon as they're available.

We've ⁠got a Substack publication⁠. At the end of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. ⁠Come say hi!⁠

Connect with us on Instagram: ⁠@betterwordspod

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This episode Michelle is giving a round-up of crime book recommendations, especially for people who don’t think they’re fans of crime as a genre. Before we get into that, she shares a fun fact about a connection between The Book Thief and Heated Rivalry.

For your convenience, here's everything else we mentioned in this episode:

• Caitlin’s amazing knitted vest!
• Garden Yourself Happy by Jonny Hincks
• Follow Johnny on Instagram for daily dopamine hits whether you’re into plants or not
• Deadloch (TV series)
• Wentworth (TV series)
• A Beginner’s Guide to Breaking & Entering and Bad Deeds by Andrew Hunter Murray*
• The Hamish & Andy Podcast episode 320 Burg Boys!
• Everyone in My Family Has Killed Someone by Benjamin Stevenson
• Everyone on This Train is a Suspect by Benjamin Stevenson*
• Everyone This Christmas Has a Secret byBenjamin Stevenson*
• Everyone in This Bank is a Thief by Benjamin Stevenson
• Knives Out (film)
• Death By Noir by Olly Smith*
• Murder at World’s End by Ross Montgomery*
• 10 Marchfield Square and Murder Like Clockwork by Nicola Whyte*
• Mad Mabel by Sally Hepworth*
• The Silent Appeal by Janice Hallett*
• The Five by Hallie Rubenhold
• The Story of a Murder by Hallie Rubenhold*
• It’s Not What You Think by Clare Macintosh
• The Year of the Rat by Harry Shukman
• The Grapevine by Kate Kemp
• Puberty Blues (TV show)
• A Bad, Bad Place by Frances Crawford
• Old School (TV show)

Enjoyed this episode? Please share it with a bookish friend to help spread the word. Make sure you're following the podcast so new episodes appear in your feed as soon as they're available.

We've ⁠got a Substack publication⁠. At the end of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. ⁠Come say hi!⁠

Connect with us on Instagram: ⁠@betterwordspod

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This episode we’re sharing reviews of recent reads. Michelle discusses The Long Haul by Hannah Doyle and Logging Off by Adele Zeynep Walton. Caitlin talks about George Kemp’s debut novel Soft Serve.

For your convenience, here's everything else we mentioned in this episode:

• Mhairi McFarlane
• Groundhog Day (film)
• Palm Springs (film)
• A Smart Girl’s Guide to Second Chances by Steph Vizard
• Prima Facie by Suzi Miller
• Big Small Talk podcast

Enjoyed this episode? Please share it with a bookish friend to help spread the word. Make sure you're following the podcast so new episodes appear in your feed as soon as they're available.

We've ⁠got a Substack publication⁠. At the end of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. ⁠Come say hi!⁠

Connect with us on Instagram: ⁠@betterwordspod

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In this episode, we’re discussing why book to screen adaptations are so vital for the publishing industry and the incredible stats that show just how many people are starting to read because of what they see on screen. Our main source is the Publisher’s Association report on screen adaptations, released earlier this year.

For your convenience, here's everything else we mentioned in this episode:

• National Year of Reading
• Australia Reads 2026 report: Reaching Australian Readers
• Rivals
• Normal People
• Frankenstein
• Withering Heights
• Off Campus
• Project Hail Mary
• Dungeon Crawler Carl by Matt Dinniman
• Heartstopper
• Invincible
• Stranger Things
• One Day
• The Love Hypothesis
• East of Eden
• Heated Rivalry
• Wicked
• Dracula
• Brooklyn
• It Ends With Us
• The Thursday Murder Club
• Sunrise on the Reaping

Enjoyed this episode? Please share it with a bookish friend to help spread the word. Make sure you're following the podcast so new episodes appear in your feed as soon as they're available.

We've ⁠got a Substack publication⁠. At the end of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. ⁠Come say hi!⁠

Connect with us on Instagram: ⁠@betterwordspod

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This episode we’re sharing some reviews of recent reads. Caitlin discusses two graphic novel retellings of Anne of Green Gables: Dan in Green Gables by Rex Ogle and Anne by Kathleen Gros. While Michelle chats about one of her most-anticipated books of 2026, Fruit Fly, by friend of the podcast Josh Silver.

For your convenience, here's everything else we mentioned in this episode:

• Clueless (film)
• 10 Things I Hate About You (film)
• Lord of the Flies: Graphic Novel
• Yellowface by R.F. Kuang
• Traumaland by Josh Silver

Enjoyed this episode? Please share it with a bookish friend to help spread the word.

We've ⁠got a Substack publication⁠. At the end of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. ⁠Come say hi!⁠

Connect with us on Instagram: ⁠@betterwordspod

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This episode is an extra special one as we welcome Matt Cain back to the podcast to talk about his new venture: he and husband Harry have launched an independent publishing company to get queer voices to mainstream readers. Pansy Books is a brilliant concept, and we are so excited for what Matt and Harry are doing in this space.

We chat about Matt’s publishing journey from crowdfunding to indie publisher, his new novel The Castle of Stories, and how his autism diagnosis has played into writing.

For a more in-depth chat about Matt’s writing journey, be sure to go back and listen to our original interview. Be sure to follow Pansy Books on Instagram and for more information, you can find their website here.

For your convenience, here's everything else we mentioned in this episode:

• Heated Rivalry
• Quite the Pair by Tobias Madden
• Tobias’ post about international rights
• Atmosphere by Taylor Jenkins Reid
• Beth O’Leary (author)
• Laura Kay (author)
• Mhairi McFarlane (author)
• Slow Horses (TV show)
• The National Year of Reading
• Reaching Australian Readers 2026 report
• Dungeon Crawler Carl
• Brandon Sanderson (author)
• Matt’s article in The Guardian exploring a late autism diagnosis
• Unapologetic Love Story by Elle McNicoll

Enjoyed this episode? Please share it with a bookish friend to help spread the word.

We've ⁠got a Substack publication⁠. At the end of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. ⁠Come say hi!⁠

Connect with us on Instagram: ⁠@betterwordspod

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In this episode, we're discussing Yesteryear by Caro Claire Burke. Unlike review episodes, book club chats will include some spoilers, although we will give ample warning before we switch from a general chat into spoiler territory.

About the book:

Natalie lives a traditional lifestyle – and has the social media accounts to prove it. Her charming farmhouse on her working ranch is artfully cluttered, her husband is a handsome cowboy, her homemade sourdough boules are each more beautiful than the last. So what if there are nannies and producers and industrial-grade ovens behind the scenes? What Natalie’s followers don’t know won’t hurt them.

Then, one morning, Natalie wakes up in a strange, horrible version of reality. Her home, her husband, her children—they’re all familiar, but something’s off. Is this a hoax? A reality show? A test from God? Natalie knows just two things for sure: this isn't her perfect life, and she must escape, by any means possible.

***We both read advance copies provided by the publisher

Here's everything else we mentioned in this episode:

• Unbreakable Kimmy Schmidt (TV show)

Enjoyed this episode? Share it with a bookish friend to help spread the word.

We've ⁠got a Substack publication⁠ now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. ⁠Come say hi!⁠

Connect with us on Instagram: ⁠@betterwordspod

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In this episode we’re deep diving into the adaptation of Emily Henry’s The People We Meet on Vacation. Caitlin explains the mysterious changes between the UK and US versions, and we discuss the film.

For your convenience, here's everything else we mentioned in this episode:

• Hoppers (film)
• Zootopia 2 (film)
• Hannah Ferguson on kids being inspiring
• Man on the Run (film)
• What Went Wrong (podcast)

Enjoyed this episode? Please share it with a bookish friend to help spread the word.

We've ⁠got a Substack publication⁠. At the end of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. ⁠Come say hi!⁠

Connect with us on Instagram: ⁠@betterwordspod

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In this episode, we’re reviewing Half His Age by Jennette McCurdy and Lost Lambs by Madeline Cash. Both were provided by publishers for review!

For your convenience, here's everything else we mentioned in this episode:

• Operation Mincemeat musical
• Come From Away musical
• I’m Glad My Mom Died by Jennette McCurdy
• Slags by Emma Jane Unsworth
• The Bee Sting by Paul Murray
• The Greatest Possible Good by Ben Brooks

Enjoyed this episode? Please share it with a bookish friend to help spread the word.

We've ⁠got a Substack publication⁠. At the end of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. ⁠Come say hi!⁠

Connect with us on Instagram: ⁠@betterwordspod

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In this episode we’re reviewing Bad Publicity by Bianca Gillam and Esther is Now Following You by Tanya Sweeny.

For your convenience, here's everything else we mentioned in this episode:

• Red Flags by Sophie Jo
• Heated Rivalry
• The Mushroom Tapes by Helen Garner, Chloe Hooper and Sarah Krasnostein

Enjoyed this episode? Please share it with a bookish friend to help spread the word.

We've ⁠got a Substack publication⁠. At the end of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. ⁠Come say hi!⁠

Connect with us on Instagram: ⁠@betterwordspod

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In this episode we’re discussing things we watched together in January: The Traitors UK, Heated Rivalry and musicals Hercules, and Just For One Day. Caitlin also talks about The Devil Wears Prada and The Mousetrap.

For your convenience, here's everything else we mentioned in this episode:

• Smart Girl’s Guide to Second Chances and The Love Contract by Steph Vizard
• Caitlin’s rom-com recommendations
• The Work and Seed by Bri Lee (our interview)
• Do We Deserve This? by Elinor Elliot Thomas (our interview)
• The Unexpected Mess of It All by Gabrielle Tozer
• This Stays Between Us
• Eras: ABBA (BBC podcast)

Enjoyed this episode? Please share it with a bookish friend to help spread the word.

We've ⁠got a Substack publication⁠. At the end of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. ⁠Come say hi!⁠

Connect with us on Instagram: ⁠@betterwordspod

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We were lucky enough to record this episode together in a studio at Vanishing Point Records in Chesterfield.

In this episode, we’re discussing Future Boy by Michael J Fox, which explores how the iconic Back to the Future film was made.

For your convenience, here's everything else we mentioned in this episode:

• Anne of Green Gables (1980s version)
• Confessions of a Shopaholic
• What Went Wrong podcast

Enjoyed this episode? Please share it with a bookish friend to help spread the word.

We've ⁠got a Substack publication⁠. At the end of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. ⁠Come say hi!⁠

Connect with us on Instagram: ⁠@betterwordspod

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We were lucky enough to record this episode together in a studio at Vanishing Point Records in Chesterfield.

We kick off with a wrap-up of our reading stats for the year: how many books and pages, the moods and re-reads.

*Accessed through our work/from the publisher

2024 debut book:

Caitlin: The Heir Apparent by Rebecca Armitage*

Michelle: Confessions by Catherine Airey*

Non-fiction:

Michelle: John and Paul: A Love story in Songs by Ian Leslie

Caitlin: The Third Gilmore Girl by Kelly Bishop

Australian book:

Michelle: Consider Yourself Kissed by Jessica Stanley

Caitlin: Until the Red Leaves Fall by Alli Parker*

Romance:

Michelle: Swept Away by Beth O’Leary

Caitlin: An Academic Affair by Jodi McAlister

Fiction:

Michelle: The Offing by Benjamin Myers

Caitlin: Ever Blessed by Olivia O’Flynn*

Young Adult:

Michelle: Red Flags by Sophie Jo*

Caitlin: Grumpy Darling by Alexandra Moody*

Most surprising:

Caitlin: Fake by Stephanie Wood

Michelle: The Lamb by Lucy Rose

Favourite cover:

Caitlin: A Smart Girls Guide to Second Chances by Steph Vizard*

Michelle: Sad Girl Hours by Anna Zoe Quirke*

Recommendation for each other:

Michelle: The Wedding People by Alison Espach

Caitlin: *Until the Red Leaves Fall by Alli Parker

Worth the hype:

Michelle: Atmosphere by Taylor Jenkins Reid

Caitlin: Sunrise on the Reaping by Suzanne Collins

Books on our radar for 2026:

• Yesteryear by Caro Claire Burke
• Motherfaker by Anna Brook-Mitchell
• The Ending Writes Itself by Evelyn Clarke*
• Esther is Now Following You by Tanya Sweeny*
• Heartstopper volume 6 by Alice Oseman
• The Silent Appeal by Janice Hallett
• Caller Unknown by Gillian McAllister
• Whatever Happened to Madeline Stone by Louise O’Neill
• Fruit Fly by Josh Silver
• This Book Made Me Think of You by Libby Page
• Survival Show by Juno Dawson
• Hopeless Romantics by Mhairi McFarlane
• Our Perfect Storm by Carley Fortune

Favourite TV:

Michelle:

• The Americans
• Outrageous
• Supernatural
• Daddy Issues

Caitlin:

• Fresh Off the Boat
• Severence
• Heated Rivalry

Favourite films:

Michelle:

• Civil War
• The Thursday Murder Club
• Lily & Stitch (live action)
• Downton Abbey: The Finale

Caitlin:

• September 5
• Wicked: For Good
• Thelma

Favourite podcasts:

Michelle:

• Just The Gist
• Big Small Talk ‘Big Talk’ episodes
• Last Podcast on the Left episodes on Heinrich Himmler and The Great Molasses Flood

Caitlin:

• Pulp Kitchen
• Good Hang
• Hamish & Andy

But for your convenience, here's everything else we mentioned in this episode:

• Ready Player One by Ernest Cline
• The Beatles by Hunter Davies
• Katabasis by RF Kuang
• The Book Thief by Markus Zusak
• Wings: The Story of a Band
• Rivals by Jilly Cooper
• The Dry Heart by Natalia Ginzburg
• Picnic at Hanging Rock by Joan Lindsey
• The Job Share by Sophie Jo
• Heartbreak Era by Sophie Jo
• All Fours by Miranda July
• Literary Legends Reading Challenge
• The Goldmans
• The Stringer: The Man Who Took the Photo (film)
• Zootopia 2
• Celebrity Traitors
• Spotlight
• The Rest is Entertainment
• Inside Out 2

Enjoyed this episode? Please share it with a bookish friend to help spread the word.

We've ⁠got a Substack publication⁠ now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. ⁠Come say hi!⁠

Connect with us on Instagram: ⁠@betterwordspod

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In this episode, Caitlin gives you dozens of recommendations for brilliant Aussie rom-coms. While Michelle chats briefly about Paul McCartney's new book, Wings: The Story of a Band on the Run.

For your convenience, here's everything else we mentioned in this episode:

• Man on the Run (upcoming Amazon documentary)
• Wings Deluxe Collection on vinyl (also available to stream on Spotify)
• Daisy Jones and the Six by Taylor Jenkins Reid
• That Island Feeling by Karina May (listen to our interview with Karina here)
• The Matchmaker by Saman Shad
• The Cicada House by Ella Ward*
• Ever Blessed by Olivia O'Flynn*
• Rival Darling and Grumpy Darling by Alexandra Moody*
• An Academic Affair by Jodi McAlister (listen to our previous chat with Jodi here)
• What Did I Miss by Holly Brunnbauer*
• A Smart Girl's Guide to Second Chances by Steph Vizard*
• Love Overdue by Ali Berg and Michelle Kalus (listen to Caitlin's full rec here)
• Love and Other Scores by Abra Pressler (Caitlin's full rec)
• Ghosted by Amy Hutton (listen to our interview with Amy here)
• Drive Me Crazy by Lizzie Dent*
• Sex Lives of Married Women by Saman Shad
• Jenna Lo Bianco (The Italian Marriage, Love and Rome, Venetian Lessons in Love, and Love, Al Dente)
• Natalie Murray (Lights, Camera, Love and Love, Just In)
• Anita Heiss (Not Meeting Mr Right)
• Engaged Apparently by Amy Andrews
• The Wedding Forecast by Nina Kenwood (listen to our interview with Nina)

Enjoyed this episode? Share it with a bookish friend to help spread the word.

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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In this episode, we're chatting about:

• The secret skill of book signings
• Girl Dinner by Olivie Blake*
• Park Avenue by Renée Ahdieh*
• The Americans (TV series)
• The Buccaneers (TV series)

*Accessed through our work/from the publisher

But for your convenience, here's everything we mentioned in this episode:

• Lucy Worsley (British historian and author) – we didn't mention but you can listen to her brilliant BBC podcast Lady Killers
• Katabasis by RF Kuang
• The Great (TV show)
• Mad Men (TV show)
• The real-life inspiration for The Americans
• Morning Wars (TV show)

Enjoyed this episode? Please share it with a bookish friend to help spread the word.

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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In this episode, we're discussing The Names by Florence Knapp. Unlike review episodes, book club chats will include some spoilers (although we'll still try to keep things vague).

About the book:

It is 1987, and in the aftermath of a great storm, Cora sets out with her nine-year-old daughter to register the birth of her son. Her husband intends her to follow a long-standing family tradition and call the boy after him. But faced with the decision, Cora hesitates, questioning whether it is right for her child to share his name with generations of domineering men. Her choice in this moment will shape the course of their lives.

Seven years later, her son is Bear, a name chosen by his sister, and one that will prove as cataclysmic as the storm from which it emerges. Or he is Julian, the name his mother set her heart on, believing it will give him the opportunity to become his own person. Or he is Gordon, named after his father and raised in his image - but is there still a chance to break the mould?

This is the story of three names, three versions of a life and the infinite possibilities that a single decision can spark. It is the story of one family and how love endures, no matter what fate has in store.

*Michelle received a copy from the publisher

Here's everything else we mentioned in this episode:

• Sliding Doors (film)
• Lessons in Chemistry by Bonnie Garmus
• Consider Yourself Kissed by Jessica Stanley
• The Treasures by Hariette Evans

Enjoyed this episode? Share it with a bookish friend to help spread the word.

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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In this episode, we're chatting about seasonal reading: what we're looking for and what it means to us. Then we share some recommendations for the summer ahead in the Southern Hemisphere and autumn vibes for our Northern Hemisphere pals. Enjoy!

For your convenience, here's everything we mentioned in this episode:

• Australia's Top 100 books countdown
• Boy Swallows Universe by Trent Dalton
• The Book Thief by Markus Zusak
• The Hottest 100 Australian songs
• Gravity Let Me Go by Trent Dalton
• The Offing by Benjamin Myers
• Love and Other Scores by Abra Pressler
• Five Bush Summers and Love Clare Fletcher
• That Island Feeling by Karina May
• Swept Away by Beth O’Leary
• One Golden Summer by Carley Fortune
• The Summer I Turned Pretty series
• Katabasis by R.F Kuang
• Hungerstone by Kat Dunn
• The Lamb by Lucy Rose
• Carmilla by J Sheridan Le Fanu
• Dracula by Bram Stoker
• The Treasures by Harriet Evans
• Buckeye by Patrick Ryan
• Sad Girl Hours by Anna Zoe Quirke (this was gifted by the publisher)
• Our previous interview with Anna about Something to Be Proud Of
• Rewitched and Uncharmed by Lucy Jane Wood
• The Dead Romantics by Ashley Poston
• Make Me A Monster by Kalynn Bayron

Enjoyed this episode? Share it with a bookish friend to help spread the word.

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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In this episode, we're chatting about:

• Michelle's birthday trip to The Lake District and our excitement for the bookish girl autumn Maisie Peters is teasing with her new single
• Caitlin's brief thoughts on The Life of a Showgirl
• Kalynn Bayron's supernatural twist on Mary Shelley's classic Frankenstein (which Michelle hasn't read)
• An update on Michelle's journey through watching Supernatural
• Second-chance dual timeline rom-com Love Overdue by Ali Berg and Michelle Kalus

For your convenience, here's everything else we mentioned in this episode:

• We love the vibe from everything Maisie Peters has teased about her new album
• 'Our Review of Life of a Showgirl' by the Shameless podcast
• Our interview with Kalynn Bayron
• Katabasis by R.F. Kuang
• Mary and the Birth of Frankenstein by Anne Eekhout
• Scot and Bothered by Alexandra Kiley
• While You Were Reading and Fancy Meeting You Here by Ali Berg and Michelle Kalus
• The Smart Girl's Guide to Second Chances by Steph Vizard

Enjoyed this episode? Share it with a bookish friend to help spread the word.

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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In this episode, we're discussing Rytual by Chloe Elisabeth Wilson. Unlike review episodes, book club chats will include some spoilers (although we'll still try to keep things vague).

About the book:

Marnie Sellick is adrift when she lands a job at the coveted, mysterious beauty brand rytuał cosmetica.

The enigmatic founder and CEO, Luna Peters, takes a liking to Marnie, and as the two grow closer Marnie becomes intoxicated by the life that Luna, and rytuał, can offer her.

But all is not what it seems at rytuał. Luna has a cult-like hold over the all-female staff, and that’s not to mention what happens at their weekly Friday Night Drinks.

As Marnie edges closer to the darkness at the centre of rytuał’s millennial-pink facade, cracks begin to show. Luna is hiding something, but will Marnie uncover the truth – and the role Luna has cast her in – before it’s too late?

Here's everything else we mentioned in this episode:

• Shameless (podcast)
• Sounds Like a Cult (podcast)
• Cultish by Amanda Montell
• All I Ever Wanted to Be Was Hot by Lucinda Price

Enjoyed this episode? Share it with a bookish friend to help spread the word.

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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In this episode, we're chatting about:

• Rewitched and Uncharmed by Lucy Jane Wood
• The Book Thief by Markus Zusak
• The Newsreader (TV series)

But for your convenience, here's everything we mentioned in this episode:

• Sabrina the Teenage Witch (TV series)
• Charmed (TV series)
• Mhairi McFarlane books
• Beth O'Leary books
• Markus Zusak's 20th anniversary posts on Instagram
• Boy Swallows Universe by Trent Dalton
• Twilight by Stephanie Meyer
• The Guardian's review of The Newsreader season 3
• Fake (TV series)
• Fisk (TV series)
• The Summer I Turned Pretty (TV series)

Enjoyed this episode? Share it with a bookish friend to help spread the word.

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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In this episode, we're chatting about:

• Behind the scenes of setting up a new bookshop
• Seeing The Thursday Murder Club in the cinema
• Our thoughts on the movie as an adaptation (yes, there are some spoilers here)

But for your convenience, here's everything we mentioned in this episode:

• The Rest is Entertainment podcast (specifically, the episode 'Noel Clarke Loses to The Guardian' from August 26)
• Richard Osman on the film's casting

Enjoyed this episode? Share it with a bookish friend to help spread the word.

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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Oh, hello! We're back and trying a new format. In short: we burnt out and lost the love for making the podcast (although we loved speaking to authors).

While we've not been recording podcasts, we have been sharing monthly recommendations on Substack. You can take a look (and subscribe!) here.

In this episode, we're chatting about:

• Watching some classic 2000s TV and the joy of not binging
• A preview of books we're excited for coming out in the last months of 2025
• Our favourite read of the year so far

But for your convenience, here's everything we mentioned in this episode:

• Veronica Mars (TV)
• Supernatural (TV)
• Charmed (TV)
• The Summer I Turned Pretty (TV)
• The Traitors UK (TV)
• Married at First Sight Australia (TV)
• The Americans (TV)
• Katabasis by R.F. Kuang
• Babel by R.F Kuang
• Yellowface by Rebecca Kuang
• Uncharmed and Rewitched by Lucy Jane Wood
• The Love Of Our Lives by Emma Steel (listen to our interview)
• Paper Heart by Cecila Ahern (listen to our interview)
• Sad Girl Hours by Anna Zoe Quirk (listen to our interview)
• The Killer Question by Janice Hallett (listen to our interview)
• When Gavin Met Stacey and Everything in Between by James Corden and Ruth Jones
• Cat: On The Road to Findout by Yusuf/Cat Stevens
• Wings by Paul McCartney
• The Mushroom Tapes by Helen Garner, Chloe Hooper and Sarah Krasnostein
• If you missed the 'Mushroom murder' you can catch up with this episode of Just the Gist
• The Gingerbread Bakery by Laurie Gilmore
• Gravity Let Me Go by Trent Dalton
• Chosen Family by Madeleine Gray (listen to our interview)
• This House of Grief by Helen Garner (which was picked for Dua Lipa's book club)
• One Golden Summer by Carly Fortune
• Consider Yourself Kissed by Jessica Stanley

Enjoyed this episode? Share it with a bookish friend to help spread the word.

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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Welcome to our favourite episode: the yearly wrap! We're sharing our reading stats, 2024 goals and the books, TV, film and audio we loved in 2024.

Make sure you're also following us on Substack. On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to – and we try to keep these separate from regular episode recommendations. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Thank you for joining us in 2024 and supporting our wonderful authors. We love hearing your thoughts on the episodes and what books you've been inspired to pick up – even if it's an older episode. You can also connect with us on Instagram @betterwordspod

We're keeping recommendations brief. If we've featured or discussed the book before, we'll link to the episode.

Any PR/review copies marked with *

We kick off with a wrap-up of our reading stats for the year: how many books and pages, the moods and re-reads.

Our awards category of favourite books kicks off at

2023 debut book Caitlin: I Hope This Finds You Well by Natalie Sue*

Michelle: The Silence in Between by Josie Ferguson* (listen to our interview)

Non-fictionCaitlin: If You Would Have Told Me by John Stamos

Michelle: Everything is Everything by Clive Myrie

By someone who has never been a podcast guestCaitlin: This Summer Will Be Different by Carley Fortune

Michelle: Prima Facie by Suzie Miller* (listen to our book club chat)

Australian/UK fictionCaitlin: Appreciation by Liam Pieper* (our interview)

Michelle: The List of Suspicious Things by Jennie Godfrey* (our interview)

RomanceCaitlin: Sit Stay Love/Love From Scratch by Amy Hutton* (our interview)

Michelle: You Belong with Me by Mhairi McFarlane (our 2021 interview)

General fictionCaitlin: Tom Lake by Ann Patchett

Michelle: Alone in Berlin by Hans Fallada

Honourable mention: Family Politics by John O'Farrell

Young adultCaitlin: I’m Not Really Here by Gary Lonesborough* (our interview)

Michelle: Dead Happy by Josh Silver (our 2023 interview)

Most surprisingCaitlin: How To Kill Your Family by Bella Mackie* (our book club chat)

Michelle: The Bee Sting by Paul Murray*

Fave CoverCaitlin: Experienced by Kate Young* (our interview)

Michelle: The Beholders by Hester Musson

Recommendations for each otherCaitlin: We Could Be Something by Will Kostakis

Michelle: Factory Girls by Michelle Gallen

Worth the HypeCaitlin: Tom Lake by Ann Patchett

Michelle: I Hope This Finds You Well by Natalie Sue*

2025 books on our radar (by authors not previously read)Michelle:

• 10 Marchfield Square by Nicola Whyte
• A Trial in Three Acts by Guy Morpuss
• 33 Place Brugmann by Alice Austen
• The Grapevine by Kate Kemp
• All the Other Mothers Hate Me by Sarah Harman
• The Eights by Joanna Miller

Caitlin:

• Deep Cuts by Holly Brickley
• The Pool by Hannah Tunnicliffe

2025 books on our radar (by authors we love)Michelle:

• Cover Story by Mhairi McFarlane
• Famous Last Words by Gillian McAllister

Caitlin:

• Swept Away by Beth O'Leary
• Great Big Beautiful Life by Emily Henry
• Slags by Emma Jane Unsworth
• Sunrise on the Reaping by Suzanne Collins

TelevisionCaitlin:

• Shrinking
• The New Look
• Nobody Wants This

Michelle:

• SAS: Rogue Heroes
• The Americans
• Everyone Else Burns

FilmCaitlin:

• Better Man
• Challengers
• My Old Ass

Michelle:

• Midas Man
• Wicked
• Prima Facie – NT Live re-release (listen to us chat about it here)

Books and other things mentioned Caitlin's trip to Prince Edward Island * Literary Legends StoryGraph challenge for 2025 * Boy From the Valleys by Luke Evans * Wrong Place Wrong Time by Gillian McAllister * Elphie by Gregory Maguire * So Thrilled For You by Holly Bourne * So Good by Emily English

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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Jennie Godfrey was raised in West Yorkshire and her debut novel, The List of Suspicious Things, is inspired by her childhood there in the 1970s. Jennie is from a mill-working family, but as the first of the generation born after the mills closed, she went to university and built a career in the corporate world. In 2020 she left and began to write. She is now a writer and part-time Waterstones bookseller and lives in the Somerset countryside.

Our interview begins at 24.00

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Caitlin recommends: Thoroughly Disenchanted by Alexandra Almond

A time slip novel set in regional Victoria where a couple become stuck in a property. Now, 100 years on they get a visitor who helps them uncover the mysteries of the property.

Michelle recommends: Rewitched by Lucy Jane Wood and So Thrilled For You by Holly Bourne*

Rewitched is a cosy delight for anyone who grew up watching Sabrina The Teenage Witch. And if you grew up with that? You're probably also the right age to feel like Holly Bourne's new contemporary novel is incredibly relatable. Both are amazing.

In this interview, we chat about:

• Jennie's recollection of growing up during the time police were searching for serial killer The Yorkshire Ripper and how this inspired the novel
• How audiences interact with true crime and how we talk about crimes and the impact of crime on everyday people
• The influences from Jennie's real life that can be seen in the novel
• The process from writing to publishing the novel (including how Jennie knew which editor would 'get' the book)
• Jennie's stint as a bookseller and how this helped her understand the publishing process

Books and other things mentioned:

• Charmed (TV show)
• Ghosts (TV show)
• The Longest Shadow (TV series)
• The Yorkshire Ripper Files (TV series)
• Sarah Everard's murder, which happened in lockdown 2021
• The Peepshow by Kate Summerscale
• The Crime of the Century by Hallie Rubenhold

Follow Jennie @jennie.godfrey on Instagram and

The List of Suspicious Things is available now!

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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Emma Grey is a novelist, feature writer, photographer, professional speaker and accountability coach. She wrote her first adult novel, The Last Love Note, in the wake of her husband’s death. It’s a fictional tribute to their love, an attempt to articulate the magnitude of her loss and a life-affirming commitment to hope, which has gone on to win hearts around the world. In the US, it was selected as a featured title for the Book of the Month and Target Book Clubs, a Washington Post noteworthy book and listed in the top 25 new releases by the American Bookseller’s Association. Emma lives near Canberra, where her world centres on her family, writing, photography and endlessly chasing the Aurora Australis.

Our interview begins at 33.00

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Mini (film) club: Wicked

Of course, we had to hold space and discuss the movie of the moment. In short: we loved it.

In this interview, we chat about:

• How can we tell stories about complex issues like violence against women in fiction?
• Why Emma also wanted to explore amnesia through the story
• The experience of having an American bestseller
• The parenting email that launched Emma's writing career
• Exploring grief in her first adult novel and the interesting journey to publication via a YA novel inspired by Harry Styles
• How Emma dealt with the way the book was received in the UK given the difficult subject matter

Books and other things mentioned:

• Pulp Kitchen (podcast)
• Deadpool and Wolverine (film)
• It Ends With Us by Colleen Hoover
• National Women's Safety Organisation
• Tuesday Evenings at the Copeton Craft Resistance by Kate Solly
• Moms Don't Have Time to Read Books Podcast by Zibby Owens

Follow @emmagreyauthor on Instagram

Pictures of You is available now. The publisher provided us with copies of the book in preparation for the interview.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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Pip Drysdale writes ‘sexy-cool’ thrillers with a dash of witty humour. She grew up in Africa, Canada, and Australia, became an adult in New York and London, and lives on a steady diet of coffee, dreams, and literature. Her books — The Sunday Girl, The Strangers We Know, The Paris Affair and The Next Girl — have been bestsellers. She currently lives in Sydney and we're chatting about The Close Up.

Our interview begins at 15.00

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Caitlin recommends: Lovestruck by Laura Jane Williams

A very enjoyable Sliding Doors-style concept romance, where a woman manifests her dream life. But which life is the right one?

Michelle recommends: Rare Singles by Benjamin Myers*

A gem of a novel about an ageing American singer whose trip to a fading English seaside town reveals more than he expected. A heartwarming character-driven novel.

In this interview, we chat about:

• The inspiration for Pip's new novel, The Close Up
• Why she wanted to set it in LA and the importance of research trips
• How Pip visualise while writing (and how we read)
• How Pip uses scent to help her writing
• Pip's process for plotting and writing

Books and other things mentioned:

• Listen to our previous interview with Laura Jane Williams
• How to Build a Life with Laura Jane Williams on Substack
• The Husbands by Holly Gramazio
• A Novel Love Story by Ashley Poston
• Nobody Wants This (TV show)
• Melrose Place (TV show)

Follow @pipdrysdale on Instagram

The Close Up is available in Australia and the US now. Thank you to the publisher for providing us with copies of the book to prepare for the interview.

Please note that we choose podcast guests independently of Caitlin's job at HarperCollins Publishers. Although her job does help put us in touch with authors, we choose our guests based on what we've enjoyed reading and think you'd find interesting.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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Melanie Cheng is a writer and general practitioner. She was born in Adelaide, grew up in Hong Kong and now lives in Melbourne. Her debut collection of short stories, Australia Day, won the Victorian Premier’s Literary Award for an Unpublished Manuscript in 2016 and the Victorian Premier’s Literary Award for Fiction in 2018. Room for a Stranger, her highly acclaimed first novel, was published in 2019. Today we're discussing her new novel, The Burrow.

Our interview begins at 31.00

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Mini book club: Intermezzo by Sally Rooney

One of the most talked about books of 2024 and not one Michelle even finished. However, Caitlin explains why she enjoyed Intermezzo and who she'd recommend it to.

In this interview, we chat about:

• The inspiration for The Burrow and choosing to explore grief several years on from a traumatic event
• How to strike the right balance between realism and hope
• Why Melanie is so fascinated by mothers and daughters in her writing
• Melanie's work as a GP and how she started writing

Books and other things mentioned:

• Yellowface by Rebecca Kuang
• Rare Singles by Benjamin Myers
• The Bee Sting by Paul Murray
• Any Ordinary Day by Leigh Sales
• Gary Lonesborough interview
• Lucy By the Sea by Elizabeth Strout
• The Sitter by Angela O'Keefe

Follow @cheng_melanie on Instagram

The Burrow is available in Australia and the US now. Thank you to the publisher for providing us copies of the book in preparation for the interview.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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Steph Tisdell is a rising star of the comedy scene in Australia. Her acting credits include Class of ’07, Total Control, Bump and Netflix Original Love is in the Air, while her writing credits include Fisk, Bump and Rosehaven. Steph lives in Meanjin with her pet parrots, Parky and Eddie. Today we're delighted to discuss her first novel, The Skin I'm In.

There is a lot of swearing in this ep

Our interview begins at 27.00

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Caitlin recommends: Taylor Swift Style by Sarah Chapelle

Recommended by a Swiftie! This book is a beautiful journey through the eras of Taylor's style, analysing how they work in with her songs. The perfect treat for Swifties.

Michelle recommends: The Crow Road by Iain Banks

An all-time favourite book. This is the story of a family, focusing on 20-year-old Prentice, his dad and uncle. It's beautiful, darkly comic and the kind of character-driven story you'll get something new out of every time.

In this interview, we chat about:

• Why Steph wanted to tell this story in novel format
• Confronting the dark parts of Australian history in schools and everyday racism
• Steph's writing process for the book and how it differed from other projects, plus where she struggled versus where she thrived
• The best advice about taking risks in life and creativity (and how this has paid off for Steph)
• How Steph connected with Layla's voice

Books and other things mentioned:

• Brooklyn by Colm Toíbín

Follow @stephtisdellcomedy on Instagram

The Skin I'm In is available now. Thank you to the publishers for providing us copies of the book to prepare for the interview.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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Kate Young is a writer and cook. Her award-winning Little Library Cookbooks feature food inspired by beloved works of literature. After a sunny Australian childhood, spent indoors reading books, she moved to London, which suited her much better. She now lives in a converted mill in a Gloucestershire town. Today we're discussing her debut novel, a queer rom-com called Experienced.

Our interview begins at 30.00

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Mini book club: How to Kill Your Family by Bella Mackie

A book we both missed when it was published in 2021. This is a witty and wickedly funny crime novel about a young woman working through a plan to kill off the members of her extended family. Grace is such an anti-hero we couldn't help but fall in love with her. We give plenty of spoilers in this chat but we give lots of warnings if you want to skip them.

In this interview, we chat about:

• Why Kate lives in the UK even though she grew up in Australia
• Kate's amazing New Year's tradition
• Queer adolescence and working out what you need in relationships
• Kate's scientific study of rom-com (and what it reveals about writing them)
• Writing cookbooks and Kate's journey into writing fiction

Books and other things mentioned:

• What a Way to Go by Bella Mackie
• The window display with Spare and How to Kill Your Family
• Unleashed and Unhinged display
• Laura Kay (listen to our most recent interview with her here)
• Emily Henry
• Casey McQuiston
• Harriet by Jilly Cooper

Follow Kate @kateyoungwrites

Experienced is now available in the UK and Australia. Michelle bought the book in preparation for the interview, but Caitlin accessed a copy through work as Kate is published by Harper Collins.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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Gary Lonesborough is a Yuin man, who grew up on the Far South Coast of New South Wales as part of a large and proud Aboriginal family. Gary was always writing as a child, and continued his creative journey when he moved to Sydney to study at film school. Gary has experience working in youth work, Aboriginal health, child protection, the disability sector (including experience working in the youth justice system) and the film industry, including working on the feature film adaptation of Jasper Jones. His debut YA novel, The Boy from the Mish, won multiple awards. It was published in the US in 2022 as Ready When You Are. His second novel, We Didn’t Think It Through, was published in 2023. Today we're discussing his new novel, I'm Not Really Here.

Our interview begins at 19.00

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Caitlin recommends: Gilmore Girls and The Pumpkin Spice Cafe*

This autumnal sensation was inspired by Gilmore Girls and although the seasons are different, this is a delightful romantic read.

Michelle talks about the books she bought in Edinburgh.

• Glasgow Boys by Margaret McDonald
• A Little Trickerie by Rosanna Pike
• The Peepshow: The Murders at 10 Rillington Place by Kate Summerscale
• Cult Classic by Sloane Crosley
• Mary: The Birth of Frankenstein by Anne Eekhout
• Affinity by Sarah Waters
• His Bloody Project by Graeme MacRae Burnett

In this interview, we chat about:

• The very personal experience that inspired Jonah's story
• How the story developed from a dark horror into a contemporary story
• Writing authentic teen boys
• Why it was so important for Gary to explore the youth justice system through his second book, We Didn't Think It Through
• Gary's journey to publication and what it's like to hear from teenage readers

Books and other things mentioned:

• Nobody Wants This (TV show)
• Veronica Mars (TV show)
• Only Murders In the Building (TV show)
• Gilmore Girls (TV show)
• Sophie Green (listen to our interview here)
• Happy Head by Josh Silver (listen to our interview)
• The Rest is Entertainment podcast episode: Showmance or Romance? Inside Celebrity Relationship Contracts
• A Monster Calls by Patrick Ness
• Panther by David Owen
• Art Hour at the Duchess Hotel by Sophie Green (listen to our interview)
• Banged Up: Stars Behind Bars (TV show)

Follow @garylonesborough on Instagram

I'm Not Really Here is available now. Thank you to the publishers for providing us with copies of the book in preparation for the interview.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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Anna Zoe Quirke is a queer and autistic author and librarian from the North of England. She currently lives in Manchester with her partner, Rachael, and their very angry tortoise, Sheldon. They’re at their happiest writing stories about queer and neurodivergent people finding and claiming their place in the world, exploring the literary wonders of the UK, or making a big ol’ mess in the kitchen baking things for their loved ones. Something to be Proud of is their debut novel.

Our interview begins at 15.00

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Book club: Prima Facie (NTL re-release)

Earlier this year we read and discussed Prima Facie and we finally got the chance to see the National Theatre Live recording of Jodie Comer performing in the West End. We were absolutely blown away by her incredible performance.

In this interview, we chat about:

• The characters of Ollie and Imogen
• Why Anna wanted to explore divorce and parental relationships through Ollie
• The importance of having Imogen's autism part of the story
• Ollie and Imogen's beautiful friendship love story
• New Writing North and Anna's journey to publication

Books and other things mentioned:

• Code Name Verity by Elizabeth Wein
• RBG (play by Susie Miller)
• Julia (play)

Follow @annazoequirke on Instagram

Something to Be Proud Of is available now! Thank you to the publishers for sending us copies of the book to prepare for the interview.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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Welcome to a bonus episode where we catch up on things we've recently bought, read and watched.

We've shared bits of this over on Substack, where we post monthly wraps of things we've loved.

Books and other things mentioned:

• Caitlin's trip to PEI
• Anne of Green Gables by LM Montgomery
• I Hope This Finds You Well by Natalie Sue* (listen to Caitlin chat about it here)
• The Art of Catching Feelings by Alicia Thompson
• This Summer Will Be Different by Carley Fortune
• The American Roomate Experiment by Elena Armas
• The Movement by Petra Hůlová
• If You Change Your Mind by Robby Weber
• A Five Letter Word for Love by Amy James*
• Guilty By Definition by Susie Dent*
• We Solve Murders by Richard Osman*
• The Examiner by Janice Hallett (listen to our previous chat with Janice here)
• The Great Gatsby musical
• Water for Elephants musical
• The Notebook musical
• Suffs musical
• Once Upon a Mattress musical
• Mrs Doubtfire musical (listen to Michelle talking about John O'Farrell's novel Family Politics here)
• The makeover montage from Mrs Doubtfire
• Back to the Future the musical
• ABBA Voyage
• Eras: ABBA interview with Vogage producers

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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Sophie Green is an author and publisher who lives in Sydney. In her spare time she writes about country music on her website, Sunburnt Country Music. Sophie's debut novel, The Inaugural Meeting of the Fairvale Ladies Book Club, was a Top Ten bestseller and was shortlisted for the Australian Book Industry Awards for General Fiction Book of the Year 2018, longlisted for both the Matt Richell Award for New Writer of the Year 2018 and the Indie Book Award for Debut Fiction 2018. Her following novels were also published internationally. Today, we're talking about her new book, Art Hour at the Duchess Hotel.

Our interview begins at 12.00

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Caitlin recommends: A Novel Love Story by Ashley Poston*

Romantic comedies with a dash of magic? Yes please. Elsie finds herself stuck in a small town that's suspiciously like that of her favourite book series and must work out how to conclude the story left in limbo by the death of the author. A very fun, delightful read.

Michelle recommends: Kala by Colin Walsh*

A literary page-turner set in a small Irish village. We meet Helen, Mush and Joe 20 years after the disappearance of their best friend Kala. The discovery of Kala's body forces them all to confront the truths they've been running from since they were teenagers. This is character-driven, picking up pace as the novel builds to a gripping conclusion.

In this interview, we chat about:

• The hotel stay that inspired Sophie and the long process from idea to book
• Sophie's view on creativity and ideas, plus her advice to aspiring writers
• How Sophie's characters make their voices heard
• How Sophie chooses when to set her books (and why 1999 was the setting this time)
• Sophie's journey to publication including working as a publisher and writing Home&Away fiction
• The writing lessons we can all learn from long-running soaps
• How Sophie juggles writing and working full-time as a publisher
• The career journey into publishing and then becoming an author

Books and other things mentioned:

• Just Like Heaven (film)
• Helly Acton (author)
• The Husbands by Holly Gramazio
• Brooklyn and Long Island by Colm Toibin
• Small Things Like These by Claire Keegan
• Big Magic by Elizabeth Gilbert
• Hunted (TV)
• Home & Away (TV)
• Heartbeat (TV)
• Blue Heelers (TV)
• All Saints (TV)

Follow @sophiegreenbooks on Instagram

Art Hour at the Duchess Hotel is available now in Australia. Thank you to the publishers for providing us with copies in preparation for the interview.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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Amy Hutton writes contemporary romantic comedies from her home on Sydney’s Northern Beaches. An award-winning Television Producer by trade, she walked away from a successful career in network television, to follow her dream of becoming an author.

Amy is a Romance Writers of America and Romance Writers of NZ Award Winner and the 2023 runner-up in the Romance Writers of Australia Emerald Award. Amy's debut rom-com Sit, Stay, Love was released in August 2023. Love from Scratch was released in June, 2024.

Our interview begins at 17.00

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Caitlin & Michelle recommend: Who's That Girl? and You Belong With Me by Mhairi McFarlane

In Who's That Girl? Edie's life explodes when a colleague kisses her on his wedding day. She's labelled a homewrecker and bullied by other colleagues so her boss sends her back home to Nottingham to ghostwrite the memoir of up-and-coming actor Elliot.

(Small spoiler alert!)

You Belong With Me picks up after a knock at Edie's door on Christmas Day where Elliot is waiting to confess his love. But how will the couple cope with Elliot's soaring fame and celeb gossip pages?

We had the pleasure of chatting with Mhairi a few years ago, you can listen to that here!

In this interview, we chat about:

• The connection between Amy's books (but why you can still read them as a standalone) and why she wanted to continue Ethan's story
• Why Amy chose to set the book on Queensland's Sunshine Coast
• How Amy feels about the way tropes have become a major discussion point among readers
• Quitting TV production to write full time and Amy's path to publication (including a brilliant way to look at pitching)

Books and other things mentioned:

• A Family Affair (film)
• Jodi McAlister's reality TV romance series (listen to our interview here)
• The Wake-Up Call by Beth O'Leary
• Pets in Rom Coms with That Rom Com Pod
• Puppy Love (film)

Follow @amyhuttonauthor on Instagram

Thank you to Simon & Schuster Australia for providing copies of the book in preparation for the interview.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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Emma Steele was born and raised on the west coast of Scotland before studying law at The University of Aberdeen. Working as a solicitor in Edinburgh, she continued to dabble in her childhood passions of art and creative writing for several years. Emma now writes big love stories with a twist, and with a particular focus on phenomena. The stunning city of Edinburgh is generally her setting of choice, but she likes to weave in elements of the wider world too. The Echos of Us is her first novel.

Our interview begins at 30.00

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

It's a bit of a different intro this week as Caitlin shares the details of her bookish Anne of Green Gables-inspired trip to Canada, including the books she's read in preparation. While Michelle chats about 2.22: A Ghost Story and meeting one of her favourite actors.

In this interview, we chat about:

• Shared death experiences and how the phenomena inspired the story of Robbie and Jenn
• Robbie's flawed character and why we enjoy seeing this in male main characters
• The process of writing a book with so many shifts in timelines and perspective
• Emma's incredibly unique publishing experience – being published as a debut author in German before the UK

Books and other things mentioned:

• Anne of Green Gables (1980s adaptation)
• Into the Uncanny by Danny Robbins
• Prima Facie by Suzie Miller (novel and script - we talk about the book here)
• Shake & Stir productions in Australia
• Big (film)
• Good Material by Dolly Alderton

Follow @emmasteeleauthor on Instagram

The Echoes of Us is available in the UK now. Thank you so much to the publishers for sending us copies in preparation for the interview.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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Avi Duckor-Jones trained as a lawyer before gaining his MA in creative writing from Victoria University's International Institute of Modern Letters in 2013. His travel writing has been published with BBC Travel, The NZ Listener and Lonely Planet, among others. Avi has worked as a writing instructor and trip leader for National Geographic, directed a school in Ghana, and is the winner of the reality television competition Survivor New Zealand. His first book, Swim, won the 2018 Viva la Novella award. He currently lives on Waiheke Island with his wife and two children, where he enjoys open-water distance swimming and works as an English Teacher

Our interview begins at 25.00

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Caitlin recommends: I Hope This Finds You Well by Natalie Sue*

An incredibly funny and relatable workplace comedy where a woman gets access to the emails of everyone in her company.

Michelle recommends: Family Politics by John O'Farrell

A left-wing campaigning couple's son comes home from uni and tells them he's... a conservative. If you've read a comment thread that's been controversial online in the past few years, you'll relate to many of the conversations.

In this interview, we chat about:

• The duality of identity, and exploring this through the character of Max
• Choosing the time period to set the book and how changing this affected the story
• Masculinity and the influence of the 'Southern Man' advertising campaign in New Zealand
• Exploring bisexuality and the feeling of needing to 'choose'
• Max's journey to finding and connecting with his birth parents
• The character of Busby and the found family that supports Max
• Avi's long and winding road to becoming a writer

Books and other things mentioned:

• Making It by Laura Kay (a friend of the pod, listen to our previous episode here)
• Experienced by Kate Young
• We Are History (podcast)
• The VB advertising campaign
• I Kissed A Boy and I Kissed A Girl (TV series)
• The Primal Wound by Nancy Verrier

Follow @aviduckorjones on Instagram

Max is available in Australia and New Zealand. Thank you to the publisher for providing us copies of the books in preparation for the interview.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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Born in Sweden, to a family of writers and readers, Josie Ferguson moved to Scotland when she was two. She returned to Sweden in her twenties, where she completed a vocational degree in Clinical Psychology (MSc). Upon graduating, she moved to London to pursue a career in publishing, something she had dreamed about since delving into fictional worlds as a child, hidden under the duvet with a torch.

She later moved to Asia in search of an adventure and a bit more sun. She currently works as a freelance book editor in Singapore, where she lives with her husband and two young children. While training to become a clinical psychologist, Josie learned about the complexity of human nature, something she explores as a writer. She believes books about the past can change the future and she aspires to write as many as possible. The Silence in Between is her debut.

Our interview begins at 29:00

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Caitlin recommends: Wrong Answers Only by Tobias Madden

We love Tobias' novels and Wrong Answers Only is just as delightful. Marco is overwhelmed by what life looks like after school and escapes to a gap-year cruise with his best friend. Brilliantly fun and heartfelt, as always.

Listen to our previous chat with Tobias here.

Michelle recommends: Water by John Boyne

Water is a heartfelt novella following a woman who moves to an isolated Irish island to escape tragic events in her past. Stunning writing, a beautiful short story. It's the first in a quartet of novellas related to the elements.

In this interview, we chat about:

• The incredible true story that gave Josie the spark of inspiration for Lisette's story
• How Josie approached the dual timeline and the research involved for both
• Why is life in East Berlin still so fascinating?
• How Josie once went on holiday in North Korea
• The 20-year journey to publication for Josie

Since we did this interview, The Silence in Between has been shortlisted for the Waterstones Debut Fiction prize. Congratulations, Josie!

Books and other things mentioned:

• Anne of Green Gables
• You Belong With Me by Mhairi McFarlane
• Jacqueline Wilson (author)
• Michelle working at the Buxton International Festival. Take a look at the pop-up shop.
• Small Things Like These by Claire Keegan
• Code Name Verity by Elizabeth Wein
• Nudism in East Germany by We Are History Podcast
• Michelle's Berlin recommendations
• Stasiland by Anna Funder
• The War on Women by Sue Lloyd-Roberts
• Tunnel 29 by Helena Merriman (and associated podcast)

Follow @josie_ferguson_author on Instagram

The Silence in Between is available now. Thank you to Doubleday Books for providing copies of the book in preparation for the interview.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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Welcome to The Re-Read: bonus episodes where we chat with previous Better Words guests and catch up on what's happened since they joined us on the pod.

Lauren Draper is a Melbourne-based writer and marketing professional. She is a graduate of RMIT's Professional Writing and Editing program and now works in publishing - she loves nothing more than a story infused with magic, hijinks and a touch of nostalgia. Her debut novel, The Museum of Broken Things, was acquired after it was shortlisted in the 2020 Text Prize, and went on to be shortlisted for The Readings Prize and Indie Book Awards, and longlisted for the CBCA Book of the Year (Older Readers). She grew up in Western Australia, mostly on land but often in water. She now lives in Melbourne, where she can be found almost exclusively complaining about the weather.

Listen to our previous chat with Lauren here.

You can follow @laurendraperwrites on Instagram

In this interview, we chat about:

• Dead letter offices, abandoned buildings and the inspiration for Return to Sender
• Dual timelines and choosing to keep technology to a minimum
• Lauren on skipping 'second book syndrome' by starting to write Return to Sender before the publication of her debut
• The effect of critical acclaim on Lauren as a writer
• Different covers in different markets and prepping for a US release

Books and other things mentioned:

• Feed by Mira Grant
• 10 Things I Hate About You (film)

Return to Sender is available now in Australia and from August 13 in the US and UK. Thank you to the publishers for providing copies of the book in preparation for the interview.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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Welcome to The Re-Read: bonus episodes where we chat with previous Better Words guests and catch up on what's happened since they joined us on the pod.

Bri Lee is a writer, journalist and activist. Her debut book Eggshell Skull was a multi-award winner. She followed this with Beauty and Who Gets to Be Smart. She is working on a PhD in law at the University of Sydney where she also lectures in media law. The Work is her first novel.

Listen to our previous chat with Bri here.

You can follow Bri @bri.e.lee on Instagram and check out News & Reviews.

*There's a little bit of background noise in this episode, sorry! Unfortunately, it's a hazard for us all recording remotely from home.

In this interview, we chat about:

• Why Bri feels more comfortable and excited about discussing The Work, in comparison to her previous non-fiction novels
• Why polarisation is a crucial part of any art (and why it means aggregating star reviews on platforms like Goodreads doesn't really work)
• Bri's writing process for this dual-perspective story
• The various selves needed to craft and then promote your work
• Why Bri views fiction and non-fiction as a spectrum rather than a binary
• Privilege, hard work and our obsession with the next young 'it' writers
• The work Bri does in creating News & Reviews

Books and other things mentioned:

• Good Material by Dolly Alderton
• Cool Story with Bri and Bridie
• Sally Rooney

The Work is available in Australia now.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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Liam Pieper is an author and ABIA-winning ghostwriter. The first was a memoir, The Feel-Good Hit of the Year, shortlisted for the National Biography Award and the Ned Kelly Best True Crime award. His second was the Penguin Special Mistakes Were Made, a collection of funny true stories. He was co-recipient of the 2014 M Literary Award, winner of the 2015 Geoff Dean Short Story Prize, the inaugural creative resident of the UNESCO City of Literature of Prague, and the 2018 National Library of Australia Creative Arts Fellow for Australian Writing. His novels are The Toymaker, Sweetness and Light and Appreciation, which is the book we're chatting about today.

Our interview begins at 22.00

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Mini book club: Grown Ups and My Favourite Mistake by Marian Keyes

Well, there's been a huge gap in our reading: we've not read much/any Marian Keyes. So we thought we'd tackle some recent releases. Caitlin discusses Grown Ups (the only MK Michelle has read) while Michelle chats about the brand new My Favourite Mistake. Our overall verdict: Marian Keyes undoubtedly has it, the knack for writing genuinely funny, compelling and yet emotional novels. And we can't wait to read more!

In this interview, we chat about:

• Art as a commodity and the way this is explored in the book
• The ideas and events in Liam's own life that culminated in Appreciation
• Turning a critical eye on the publishing industry as part of Ollie's redemption arc
• Inside the world of a ghostwriter
• How Liam became a ghostwriter and his publishing journey

Books and other things mentioned:

• Everyone In My Family Has Killed Someone by Benjamin Stevenson
• Yellowface by Rebecca Kuang
• Keanu and co: how celebrities became bestselling novelists
• 'Zoella and the ghostwriter' on Shameless Book Club Podcast
• Spare by Prince Harry
• Goosebumps books
• Sophie Hannah's Poiroit novels

Follow @liampieperwrites on Instagram

Appreciation is available in Australia now.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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Brydie Lee-Kennedy is an Australian TV writer. She has written on shows for Netflix, Apple TV and Disney. In a former life, she was a cabaret performer, kid's party entertainer and sex columnist. Today, we're discussing her debut novel Go Lightly.

Our interview begins at 26.00

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Bit of a different intro this week. Caitlin has had a huge week at work and what she's been reading is still secret. But Michelle has been on an exciting trip to Berlin. So, we decided to discuss some of the content related to that trip. Here's what she shared:

• Berlin Game by Len Deighton
• Alone in Berlin by Hans Fallada
• In Search of Berlin by John Kampfner
• Marzahn, Mon Amour by Katja Oskamp
• The Berliners by Emma Harding
• Stasiland by Anna Funder
• Turning Point: The Bomb and the Cold War (Netflix documentary)
• 'Nudism in East Germany' by We Are History podcast

In this interview, we chat about:

• Why we don't see much of the Aussie in the UK experience in books or on TV
• What it's like being a TV writer in Australia and the US
• The different versions of ourselves we present in relationships
• Writing about digital life and the effects it has on Ada's relationships in the book
• Why Brydie would never want to adapt her own book for the screen

Books and other things mentioned:

• The Rest is Entertainment (podcast)

Follow @brydieleekennedy on Instagram

Go Lightly is available in Australia and the UK now. Thank you to the publishers for providing copies of the book in preparation for the interview.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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Welcome to The Re-Read: bonus episodes where we chat with previous Better Words guests and catch up on what's happened since they joined us on the pod.

Dr Jodi McAlister is a romance author and romance scholar. Her latest novel is Not Here To Make Friends.

Listen to our previous chat with Jodi here.

You can follow @jodimcalister on Instagram

In this interview, we chat about:

• The complex reality TV world Jodi created across her rom-com trilogy, including exploring the series 'villains' in the final book
• Writing the third book in dual perspective and why this took Jodi by surprise (and why it was 'harder than all six of my previous books combined')
• Could Love Island inspire another series in the future?
• How Jodi planned the series, including plotting a season of a fictional dating show
• Jodi's next romance series and upcoming academic projects

Not Here to Make Friends is available now in Australia, along with Jodi's other books.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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Emma Darragh spends most of her time on Gadigal and Dharawal Lands. She holds a PhD in Creative Writing from the University of Wollongong, where she works as a sessional academic. Her writing has appeared in numerous Australian publications, including Cordite, Westerly, Meniscus, TEXT, and The Big Issue Fiction Edition. Emma’s debut novel-in-stories, Thanks for Having Me, is published by JOAN.

Our interview begins at 25:00

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Mini book club: Prima Facie by Suzie Miller

Tessa has built a prestigious career as a barrister, a world away from her working-class roots. But when she is raped on a date with a colleague, she must reckon with everything she's believed about the law and justice. This is a stunning, thought-provoking and emotional novel.

Michelle received a copy for review from the publisher in the UK.

In this interview, we chat about:

• The story cycle format of Thanks for Having Me
• How the character of Vivienne inspired the novel
• How you structure a novel that's intentionally meant to be read out of order and the way Emma approached the writing process
• Emma's journey to publication

Books and other things mentioned:

• The Work by Bri Lee
• RBG (play by Suzi Miller)
• Eggshell Skull by Bri Lee
• Olive Kitteridge by Elizabeth Strout
• A Visit from the Goon Squad by Jennifer Egan
• Dubliners by James Joyce
• Alice Munro (author)
• Rubik by Elizabeth Tan
• The Flight of Birds by Joshua Lobb

Follow @emmaldarragh on Instagram.

Thanks for Having Me is available in Australia now. Thank you to the publisher for providing copies in preparation for the interview.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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Lottie Hazell is a contemporary literary scholar, board game designer and writer in Warwickshire. She holds a PhD in Creative Writing and her research considers food-writing in 21st Century fiction. Today, we’re discussing her debut novel Piglet.

Our interview begins at 16:00

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Caitlin recommends: So Fetch: The Making of Mean Girls by Jennifer Keishin Armstrong*

A fascinating look behind the scenes of the iconic movie with so many interesting tidbits from those involved.

Michelle recommends: The Whalebone Theatre by Julia Quinn

A beautiful family saga following three children growing up in a crumbling English manor house by the sea, spanning from 1919 to the end of World War Two.

In this interview, we chat about:

• Family, aspiration and why perception is so vital to Piglet
• The 'contract' between the author and the reader and why Lottie wanted to play with that in revealing aspects of Piglet's story
• Food, desire and the connection with family
• Lottie's academic focus on food-centred fiction and how this led to writing Piglet
• Lottie's venture into boardgame designing with her partner

Books and other things mentioned:

• Sex and the City and Us by Jennifer Keishin Armstrong
• Simple Comforts by Mary Berry
• Ramsey in Ten by Gordon Ramsey
• The Roasting Tin series by Rukmini Iyer
• The Farm Tabel by Julius Roberts
• League of Lexicon (game)

Follow Lottie on Instagram @LDHazell

Piglet is available in the UK, US and Australia now! Thank you to the publisher for providing us with copies in preparation for the interview.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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Madeleine Gray is a writer and critic from Sydney. She was a 2021 Finalist for the Walkley Pascall Prize for Arts Criticism and has written for many publications. She also lived in the UK for several years, has an MSt in English Literature from the University of Oxford and is a current (remote) doctoral candidate at the University of Manchester. Green Dot is her debut novel.

Our interview begins at 20.00

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Mini book club: Reputation by Lex Croucher

Mean Girls meets Bridgerton in this Regency-era romance. Add in a queer focus and we're absolutely here for it. Reputation is a delightful read, perfect for a holiday or devouring over a weekend. We can't wait to read Lex's other romance novels.

In this interview, we chat about:

• Hera's job as a comment moderator at a large news publication
• Exploring Hera's experience as a bi woman in her first straight-passing relationship
• Hera and her single dad's relationship (and why it's the best)
• Madeleine's unique journey to publication
• International cover (and name) changes
• The reception from readers and what that means to Madeleine

Books and other things mentioned:

• Listen to our interview with Lex Croucher
• Gentleman Jack (TV series)
• 'The first modern lesbian' Anne Lister
• We Had to Remove This Post by Hanna Bervoets
• In At the Deep End by Kate Davies
• Pride (film)
• Gay's The Word bookshop, London
• Neon Roses by Rachel Dawson
• Book Bar bookshop, London

Follow @gray_madeleine_ on Twitter or visit Madeleine's Website

Green Dot is available now in Australia and the UK. Thank you to the publishers for providing copies of the book in preparation for the interview.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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Kelly McCaughrain is a YA writer from Belfast, Northern Ireland. Her first book, Flying Tips for Flightless Birds won the Children's Books Ireland Book of the Year Award and NI Book Award. She was the Queens University Belfast Children's Writing Fellow 2019-2021. Her new YA, Little Bang, is about teen pregnancy and was published by Walker Books in January 2024. When she's not writing she's mentoring teen writers with Fighting Words NI or travelling in her ancient VW campervan, Gerda.

Our interview begins at 27.00

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Caitlin recommends: Cherry Beach by Laura McPhee-Browne

Childhood best friends Hetty and Ness leave Melbourne to live abroad in Canada. This is a beautiful exploration of friendship and love, found through a library 'blind date with a book'. It felt like it took a while to read, but I really wanted to savour this writing.

Michelle recommends: Everyone On This Train is a Suspect by Benjamin Stevenson

This is a sequel, but you don't have to have read Everyone in My Family Has Killed Someone to enjoy this witty and clever murder mystery. In this fiction disguised as a memoir, several mystery writers on a literary festival train journey must utilise their 'expertise' to investigate when one of their own is killed.

A copy was provided by the publisher for review.

In this interview, we chat about:

• The inequality of pregnancy and motherhood and how Kelly tackled this in a novel for teen readers
• Why a dual perspective was the best way to tell this story
• How to represent the nuance of the abortion debate and teen pregnancy through Mel and Sid
• The importance of exploring friendship dynamics alongside the pregnancy storyline
• How growing up in Northern Ireland during The Troubles impacted Kelly's writing
• The importance of humour in dealing with tough situations
• How a story competition helped Kelly score an agent
• The difference between writing her debut novel and this second novel
• Why it's so inspiring to teach creative writing to teens

Books and other things mentioned:

• I'll Be Gone in the Dark by Michelle McNamara
• Brooklyn by Colm Tóibín
• Rebecca Kuang (author)
• The Afterparty (TV series)
• Shameless (podcast)
• Olive by Emma Gannon
• Derry Girls (TV series)
• Sinéad Morrissey (poet)

Follow @kmccaughrain on Instagram

Little Bang is available now. Thank you to Walker Books for sending copies of the books in preparation for the interview.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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Welcome to The Re-Read: bonus episodes where we chat with previous Better Words guests and catch up on what's happened since they joined us on the pod.

Libby Page became a Sunday Times bestselling author with her debut The Lido and has since become a staple of the 'up-lit' genre with her following novels The 24-Hour Cafe, The Island Home, and The Vintage Shop. Before becoming an author, Libby worked in journalism and marketing. She is a keen outdoor swimmer and lives in Somerset with her husband and young son. Today, we're discussing her upcoming novel, The Lifeline, which sees the return of a beloved character from The Lido.

You can follow Libby @libbypagewrite on Instagram and read more of her writing over on Substack – where you can also follow us for lots of extra book recommendations.

In this interview, we chat about:

• Why returning to the world of The Lido was never inevitable
• How becoming a mum influenced The Lifeline and why Libby wanted to explore the (still somewhat taboo) topic of post-partum mental health
• Keeping the love for something when it becomes your career
• What Libby's learned about the publishing process since her debut novel

The Lifeline is published on April 25 in Australia and the UK. Thanks to Orion for providing copies of the book in preparation for the interview.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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Welcome to Better Words. Hosted by book-loving besties Caitlin and Michelle. We share interviews with authors talking about their books, writing and publishing journey.

We've got a Substack publication as well! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

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Welcome to our favourite episode: the yearly wrap! We're sharing our reading stats, 2024 goals and the books, TV, film and audio we loved in 2023.

Make sure you're also following us on Substack. On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to – and we try to keep these separate from regular episode recommendations. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Thank you for joining us in 2023 and supporting our wonderful authors. We love hearing your thoughts on the episodes and what books you've been inspired to pick up – even if it's an older episode. You can also connect with us on Instagram @betterwordspod

We're keeping recommendations brief. If we've featured or discussed the book before, we'll link to the episode.

Any PR/review copies marked with *

We kick off with a wrap-up of our reading stats for the year: how many books and pages, the moods and re-reads.

Our awards category of favourite books kicks off at 21:00

2023 debut book Caitlin: One Day We’re All Going To Die by Elise Esther Hearst* (our interview)

Michelle: In Memoriam by Alice Winn

Non-fictionCaitlin: The House that Joy Built by Holly Ringland*

Michelle: Say Nothing by Patrick Radden Keefe

By someone who has never been a podcast guestCaitlin: After the Forest by Kell Woods*

Michelle: The Rachel Incident by Caroline O'Donohue

Australian fictionCaitlin: Lola in the Mirror by Trent Dalton*

Michelle: Duck a l’Orange for Breakfast by Karina May* (our interview)

RomanceCaitlin: Bound to Happen by Jonathon Shannon* (our interview)

Michelle: Wild Things by Laura Kay

Honourable mention: The Wake Up Call by Beth O'Leary

General fictionCaitlin: One Love by Matt Cain* (our interview)

Michelle: Playing Games by Huma Qureshi* (our interview)

Young adultCaitlin: Two Can Play That Game by Leanne Yong* (our interview)

Michelle: Little Bang by Kelly McCaughrain*

Honourable mention: Happy Head by Josh Silver (our interview)

Most surprisingCaitlin: West Side Honey by Claire Christian* (our interview)

Michelle: Wrong Place Wrong Time by Gillian McAllister

Fave CoverCaitlin: Yellowface by Rebecca Kuang*

Michelle: Homecoming by Kate Morton – Australian cover

Recommendations for each otherCaitlin: We Could Be Something by Will Kostakis

Michelle: Factory Girls by Michelle Gallen

Worth the HypeCaitlin: One Love by Matt Cain* (our interview)

Michelle: Lessons in Chemistry by Bonnie Garmus

2024 books on our radar (by authors not previously read)Michelle:

• Caledonian Road by Andrew O’Hagan
• The List of Suspicious Things by Jennie Godfrey
• The Lonely Hearts Quiz League by Lauren Farnsworth

Caitlin:

• Go Lightly by Brydie Lee Kennedy
• Sisterhood by Cathy Kelly
• Just Friends by Gyan Yankovich

2024 books on our radar (by authors we love)Michelle:

• You Belong With Me by Mhairi McFarlane
• The Lifeline by Libby Page
• Crime of the Century by Hallie Rubenhold

Caitlin:

• So Fetch by Jennifer Keishin Armstrong
• The Work by Bri Lee
• Funny Story by Emily Henry

TelevisionCaitlin:

• Abbott Elementary
• Jury Duty
• Miracle Workers

Michelle:

• The Longest Shadow
• The Boys
• Funny Woman

FilmCaitlin:

• Barbie
• Air
• What's Love Got to Do With It?

Michelle:

• Barbie
• Ford Vs Ferrari/Le Mans '66
• Chicken Run: Dawn of the Nugget

PodcastsCaitlin:

• And That's What You Missed
• Synced
• Cool Story

Michelle:

• We Are History
• All Killa No Filla
• Oh What a Time (which Michelle totally forgot to actually mention on the podcast)

2023 was also the year Michelle released a two-part podcast/audio documentary with ABC's The History Listen. Listen to part one here and part two here.

Music – albumsCaitlin:

• The Good Witch by Maisie Peters
• Snow Angel by Renee Rapp
• Speak Now (Taylor's Version)

Michelle:

• The Good Witch by Maisie Peters
• You Signed Up for This by Maisie Peters
• Autumn Variations by Ed Sheeran

Music – SongsCaitlin:

• BSC by Maisie Peters
• Talk Too Much by Renee Rapp
• Electric Touch by Taylor Swift ft Fall Out Boy

Michelle:

• I'm Trying (Not Friends) by Maisie Peters
• Positive Spin by Gretta Ray
• Amazing by Ed Sheeran

Books and other things mentioned* Dark Mode by Ashleigh Kalagian-Blunt (our interview) * The Trial by Laura Bates * Boy Swallows Universe (book and TV series) * The Secret Life of Albert Entwhistle by Matt Cain * Who's That Girl by Mhairi McFarlane * The Lido by Libby Page * Literary Legends StoryGraph challenge * Michelle's Maisie Peters StoryGraph challenge & recommendations if you're not on StoryGraph * The 52 Book Club StoryGraph challenge * Reading Advent Calendar from Rare Birds Books * Daniel Radcliff's dancing * The Founder (film) * Wonka (film) * Anyone But You (film) * Letterboxd * Family Politics by John O'Farrell (2024 release) * Big Small Talk (podcast)

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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Matt Cain is an author, broadcaster and former journalist. He was Channel 4’s first Culture Editor, Editor in Chief of Attitude magazine and currently a presenter for Virgin Radio Pride UK. He grew up in Bolton in England’s north and now lives in London. Today, we’re discussing his upcoming novel, One Love.

Our interview begins at 28.00

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Caitlin recommends: You Could Be So Pretty by Holly Bourne*

Holly Bourne's latest YA novel takes the pressures of social media and society and notches it up in an intense dystopian exploration of feminism.

Thank you to Usborne Books for sending copies for review.

Michelle recommends: Weyward by Emilia Hart

A gripping and emotional story of three generations of women told through alternating timelines.

We don't often share interviews ahead of publication, but if you're in the UK and would like to pre-order a signed copy, you can do so through Gay's the Word or Gay Pride Shop.

In this interview, we chat about:

• Why One Love is a slight departure from Matt's previous two novels
• Exploring class, straight-passing privilege and intersectionality through main characters Danny and Guy
• Encouraging and allowing people to change their minds
• Body image in the queer community
• Crowdfunding Matt's novel The Madonna of Bolton and overcoming prejudice in publishing
• Layton Williams, who recorded the audiobook for Albert Entwhistle, and Nikita on Strictly Come Dancing 2023 and breaking barriers for future generations

Books and other things mentioned:

• Only Ever Yours by Louise O'Neill
• The Burning by Laura Bates
• The Curious Case of the Alperton Angels by Janice Hallett
• The Christmas Appeal by Janice Hallett (listen to our interview)
• The Flat Share by Beth O'Leary
• Promising Young Woman (film)
• Rubaiyat of Omar Khayyam
• The Somerton Man
• The mystery of The Somerton Man finally solved after 70 years
• I'll Be Gone in the Dark by Michelle McNamara
• The Longest Shadow (TV series)
• Happy Head by Josh Silver (listen to our interview)
• One Day by David Nicholls
• Wild Things by Laura Kay (and check out our episodes here and here)
• Upper Middle Bogan (TV show)
• Layton and Nikita's Argentine Tango, Couple's Choice and Final Showdance

Follow @mattcainwriter on Instagram

One Love is available from January 18, 2024. Thank you to Headline Publishing Group for providing us copies of the book in preparation for the interview.

Matt will also be publishing a short novel for Quick Reads in April for World Book Night.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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Huma Qureshi is an award-winning author and journalist. Her memoir How We Met: A Memoir of Love and Other Misadventures was shortlisted for the Books Are My Bag Indie Readers Award. Her short story collection, Things We Do Not Tell the People We Love was longlisted for several awards. She has also worked and written for The Guardian and The Observer, among other publications. Today we’re discussing her debut novel, Playing Games.

Our interview begins at 24.00

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Caitlin recommends: Directed by James Burrows: Five Decades of Stories from the Legendary Director of Taxi, Cheers, Frasier, Friends, Will & Grace, and More

A fascinating look behind the scenes of some of the most iconic TV sitcoms including Cheers, Frasier and Friends.

Michelle recommends: Brooklyn by Colm Tobain

An emotional journey as a young Irish woman chooses between two lives in the 1950s. One of Michelle's all-time favourites – what did she think of it six years on from first reading it?

*Note: Michelle says it was published in 2019, but she meant 2009.

In this interview, we chat about:

• Our obsession as readers with knowing whether a novel is inspired by real-life
• Where is the line between stealing a story and being inspired by it?
• Huma's focus on creating a nuanced portrayal of sisters and their complicated relationship
• How to represent the creative process on the page
• The beauty of short stories and how it started Huma's journey to publication
• Huma's creative writing courses and how it enhances her craft

Books and other things mentioned:

• Long Island by Colm Tobain
• Cat Person (short story)
• Bad Art Friend (short story)
• Holly Bourne on Emma Gannon's Ctrl Alt Delete
• Yellowface by Rebecca F Kuang
• Between Us by Mhairi McFarlane
• Alice Munro (author)

Follow Huma @humaqureshiwriter

Playing Games is available now. Thank you to Sceptre for providing us with copies of the book in preparation for the interview.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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Megan Williams won the 2022 Text Prize for her debut YA novel Let’s Never Speak of This Again. She lives in Brisbane with her husband and their three children.

Our interview begins at 14.00

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

And take a look at our festive recommendations here!

Caitlin recommends: Heartstopper Vol 5

A beautiful continuation of Nick and Charlie's story. This series is perfect, we couldn't love it more.

Michelle recommends: The Gifts by Laura Barnett

A heartwarming festive novel, told through 12 interconnecting stories of people searching for gifts for their loved ones.

In this interview, we chat about:

• Teenage friendship circles and having a 'best friend'
• Writing realistic parents in YA
• Coming up with book titles
• Exploring different types of grief through a teen lens
• How Megan wrote around parenting two (now three) small children

Books and other things mentioned:

• Recommendation culture on Cool Story by Bri and Bridie
• Creativity by John Cleese

Let's Never Speak of This Again is available now. Thank you to Text Publishing for providing copies of the book in preparation for the interview

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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Michelle Upton writes short stories and novels examining our darkest fears and illuminating hope and possibility. Born in Birmingham, Michelle emigrated to Australia in 2006 and is proud to call herself Australian. Michelle has a Bachelor (Hons) degree in Literature with Psychology, and before having children, she was a primary school teacher. Her debut novel, Terms of Inheritance, was shortlisted for the HarperCollins Australia 2021 Banjo Prize. She lives in Brisbane with her family. Today, we're discussing her second novel, Emergency Exit Only.

Our interview begins at 22.00

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Mini book club: The Rachel Incident by Caroline O'Donohue

We loved this book so much. It's a character-driven contemporary novel about two best friends with a secret and the way one year influences their lives.

In this interview, we chat about:

• Life-changing experiences and finding a new career or passion as an adult
• Pushing out of your comfort zone in the name of research
• How Michelle went from primary school teacher to author
• What running a marathon taught Michelle about writing

Books and other things mentioned:

• Sentimental Garbage podcast
• Chicago (film)
• Conversations with Friends by Sally Rooney
• Code Name Verity by Elizabeth Wein
• Small Things Like These by Claire Keegan
• Factory Girls by Michelle Gallen
• Home Stretch by Graham Norton
• The Alchemist by Paulo Coelho

Follow @michelleuptontheauthor on Instagram

Emergency Exit Only is available now. Thank you to HarperCollins for providing copies of the book in preparation for the interview.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

Please note that we choose podcast guests independently of Caitlin's job at HarperCollins Publishers. Although her job does help put us in touch with authors, we choose our guests based on what we've enjoyed reading and think you'd find interesting.

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Jonathon Shannon is a Sydney-based writer and creative director. His work has been recognised at the Cannes Lions International Festival of Creativity, screened at the St Kilda Film Festival, and is housed in the permanent archives of the Museum of Modern Art (MoMA) in New York. Bound to Happen is his debut novel.

Our interview begins at 00.21.00

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Caitlin recommends: The House that Joy Built by Holly Ringland*

An inspiring non-fiction book exploring creativity and encouraging us to do things purely for the joy of them.

Michelle recommends: Begin Again by Helly Acton

Frankie dies in a freak kebab-related accident and then she's faced with a choice: she can look at several turning points of her life and experience how it would have unfolded. Does she want to begin again in one of those lives or move to the Final Destination?

In this interview, we chat about:

• Deciding how much scientific theory to include in the book through the character of Sophie, an astrophysicist
• WTF is 'string theory', and what does it have to do with love?
• The difficulty of translating and sharing music through words
• What's the line between romantic moves and creepy moves – and how do you make sure you're writing a poetic character, not a weirdo
• Why don't more straight men read or write romance?
• Jonathan's journey from copywriter to published author
• What it's like to have a spouse also publishing novels

Books and other things mentioned:

• The Midnight Library by Matt Haig
• This is Not a Book About Benedict Cumberbatch by Tabitha Carvan
• Minnie Darke (author – listen to our interview here)
• Sliding Doors (film)
• Quantum Leap (TV series)
• Daisy Jones and the Six by Taylor Jenkins-Reid
• The Dictionary of Obscure Sorrows by John Koenig
• Dark Mode by Ashleigh Kalagian-Blunt (listen to our interview)
• Sleepless in Seattle (film)
• Love, Actually (film)
• 500 Days of Summer (film)
• Matthew Reilly (author)

Follow @jonathonshannonauthor on Instagram

Bound to Happen is out now. Thank you to Ultimo Press for providing copies of the book in preparation for the interview.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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Eleanor Elliott Thomas worked for many years as a human rights lawyer before devoting herself full-time to writing. She lives in Melbourne with her partner, two kids, and three cats. Today, we're discussing her debut novel, The Opposite of Success.

Our interview begins at 00.17.00

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Mini book club: Lessons in Chemistry by Bonnie Garmus

Finally, we've read one of the most hyped books of 2022, and we loved it. It follows Elizabeth Zott, a scientist who has to fight against the misogyny of 1960s society in her science career and personal life. This is an emotional and clever novel we both highly recommend (along with everyone else).

In this interview, we chat about:

• How Eleanor settled on the one-day timeframe and dual POV
• Review culture and how it feels to be on the other side of opinions about work
• Eleanor's incredibly smooth publishing deal and adjusting expectations after publication
• How to classify and compare The Opposite of Success in the bookstore
• Switching to writing after working as a lawyer for 15 years

Books and other things mentioned:

• Minnie Darke (listen to our interview)
• Mad Men (TV series)
• Fleabag (TV series)
• Motherland (TV series)
• A Single Man by Christopher Isherwood
• Barbie (film)
• Strong Female Character by Fern Brady
• Sorrow and Bliss by Meg Mason (listen to our interview)

Follow Eleanor and take a look at her Substack.

The Opposite of Success is available now. Thank you to Text Publishing for providing us with copies of the book in preparation for the interview.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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Janice Hallett is the author of three best-selling novels. Her debut, The Appeal, was awarded the CWA Debut Dagger of 2021. Her second novel, The Twyford Code, was named Crime & Thriller Book of the Year in the British Book Awards 2023. The Mysterious Case of the Alperton Angels was an instant Times and Sunday Times bestseller on its launch in January 2023. Janice is a former magazine editor, award-winning journalist, and government communications writer. As a playwright and screenwriter, she penned the feminist Shakespearean stage comedy NetherBard and co-wrote the feature film Retreat. Today, we're discussing her festive novella returning to the world of her debut: The Christmas Appeal.

Our interview begins at 21:00

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Caitlin has been shimmying away in Jersey Boys and hasn't had time to read much, so instead, Michelle is giving two recommendations for the week.

Michelle recommends: Strong Female Character by Fern Brady

This memoir is, at times, tough to read because it is unflinchingly honest. Fern was told she 'couldn't be autistic' because she had boyfriends and made eye contact – but this book explores the ways that being female has got in the way of an autism diagnosis and how understanding herself as autistic has helped her understand herself better.

Michelle recommends: The Schoolhouse by Sophie Ward

This literary thriller introduces us to Isobel – a woman who lives an isolated life and feels safe in her routines. When she gets a letter from an old teacher and a local schoolgirl goes missing, it sends her spiralling into the memories of a traumatic experience at an experimental school from the 1970s. The story dips between the present investigation in 1990 and Isobel's diary entries from 1975.

In this interview, we chat about:

• Janice's almost accidental turn to book publishing after a decade of trying to get a screenwriting career off the ground – and how this inspired The Appeal's groundbreaking format
• The joy of community theatre and how it's shaped Janice's life
• How Janice plans and writes her novels
• Revisiting the world of Lockwood for The Christmas Appeal
• A little teaser for Janice's 2024 novel, The Examiner
• How Janice feels about the success of her books after so many years of screenwriting

Books and other things mentioned:

• Maisie Peters in her Wembley era (like it's hard)
• Book Bar (follow them here!)
• Cool Story Podcast by Bridie Jabor and Bri Lee (discussing The Fraud by Zadie Smith)
• Treason (musical production)
• Partygate (TV series)
• Attachments by Rainbow Rowell

Follow @janice.hallett on Instagram

The Christmas Appeal is available now. Thank you to Viper Books for sending us copies of the book to read in preparation for the interview.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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Alice Pung OAM is one of Australia's foremost writers. She wrote the memoirs Unpolished Gem and Her Father’s Daughter, and edited anthologies Growing Up Asian in Australia and My First Lesson. Her debut novel Laurinda won the Ethel Turner Prize at the 2016 NSW Premier’s Literary Awards and has been adapted for the stage. Her second novel, One Hundred Days, was shortlisted for the 2022 Miles Franklin Award. She is also the author of children's books including Be Careful, Xiao Xin! (ill. Sher Rill Ng). Today, we're discussing her new children's series Millie Mak the Maker. Alice was awarded an Order of Australia Medal for services to literature in 2022.

Our interview begins at 30:00

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Take a look at our October wrap-up here!

Mini book club: Laurinda by Alice Pung

A must-read of the Aussie young adult canon and a book we've meant to read for years. We're so glad we finally read this beautiful, heartfelt exploration of Lucy Lam's experience at a prestigious Melbourne girls' school.

In this interview, we chat about:

• How the working-class suburbs of Australia where Alice grew up inspired the story of Millie Mak
• Inspiring young girls to make and craft
• The class and privilege of children's toys and upcycling
• The magic of finding an illustrator to collaborate with who also understands the nuances of growing up in a country with a history of colonialism
• How Alice has managed to write across so many age ranges
• Why One Hundred Days became Alice's debut adult novel
• The experience of seeing Laurinda adapted for the stage

Books and other things mentioned:

• 1989 (Taylor's Version) (album)
• The Good Witch Deluxe by Maisie Peters (album)
• Positive Spin by Gretta Ray (album)
• Genevieve Novak (listen to our interview here)
• The Woman in Me by Britney Spears
• Basil the Great Mouse Detective (film)
• Danielle Binks (listen to our interview)
• Labyrinth (film)
• Boy Swallows Universe by Trent Dalton
• All the Light We Cannot See by Anthony Doerr
• Harry Potter and the Cursed Child (production)

You can find ways to contact Alice on her website.

Millie Mak the Maker is available now, as are all Alice's other books.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

Please note that we choose podcast guests independently of Caitlin's job at HarperCollins Publishers. Although her job does help put us in touch with authors, we choose our guests based on what we've enjoyed reading and think you'd find interesting.

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Elise Esther Hearst is a Melbourne-based playwright and author, working and living on Boon Wurrung country. She studied Creative Arts at Melbourne University and playwriting at the Royal Court Theatre in London. Upcoming productions include A Very Jewish Christmas Carol (Melbourne Theatre Company) and Yentl (Malthouse Theatre). One Day We’re All Going to Die, published by Harper Collins Australia, is Elise's debut novel. Elise is currently working on her second novel.

Our interview begins at 18.00

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Caitlin recommends: The Boyfriend Candidate by Ashley Winstead

Alexis, a school librarian, gets caught in a fake relationship with local political candidate Logan. A fun slow-burn romance with heart.

Caitlin read a copy of this from Harlequin.

Michelle recommends: Factory Girls by Michelle Gallen

A novel that's perfect for fans of Derry Girls. It's 1994 and Meave is waiting for her final exam results and praying it's enough to see her out of her small Northern Irish hometown.

In this interview, we chat about:

• Being compared to Sally Rooney and Meg Mason as part of the 'sad girl lit' trend
• Writing about living as the descendant of a Holocaust survivor and exploring Australian Jewish culture
• The inspiration Elise took from her own grandmother in writing the character of Cookie
• The Pandemic Skip and not having our shit together
• Elise's journey from playwright to novelist and the differences between the two forms

Books and other things mentioned:

• Big Girl, Small Town by Michelle Gallen
• Sorrow and Bliss by Meg Mason (listen to our interview here)
• Secrets by Jacqueline Wilson
• A Very Jewish Christmas Carol
• Yentl

Follow @eliseestherhearst on Instagram

One Day We're All Going to Die is available now. Thank you to Harlequin for providing copies of the book in preparation for the interview.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

Please note that we choose podcast guests independently of Caitlin's job at HarperCollins Publishers. Although her job does help put us in touch with authors, we choose our guests based on what we've enjoyed reading and think you'd find interesting.

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Clare Fletcher was born and raised in regional Queensland, Australia. Her debut novel, romantic comedy Five Bush Weddings, was published in 2022, and today we're discussing the follow-up, Love Match. Clare also co-hosts That Rom Com Pod with fellow author (and previous Better Words guest) Karina May.

Our interview begins at 00:28

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Mini book club: Straight Expectations by Calum McSwiggan

After a huge fight with his friends, Max wishes for an 'easy' life like straight kids enjoy. But he gets way more than he bargained for – waking up to find he's straight and suddenly without best friend Dean.

We loved the way this book explores male friendships and the way Max learned so much about himself in the parallel world. A fun and quick queer read.

In this interview, we chat about:

• Writing an 'extended love letter' to the small town Clare grew up in – even when she chose to leave
• How Love Match developed out of the characters in Clare's debut and the alchemy of writing and ideas
• Why Clare wanted to tell part of the story through seven vintage dresses (and the real-life collection that inspired them)
• How Clare's return to sport in her early 30s inspired the team sport storyline in Love Match and the emotions involved in seeing women's sports represented in media
• The differences between women's and men's sporting teams
• Clare's writing career and her journey to publication

Books and other things mentioned:

• Audiobooks are now included in Spotify Premium!
• Michelle's bookshelves
• Trans author recommendations
• Strong Female Character by Fern Brady
• Becoming Us by Jake and Hannah Graf
• Palm Springs (film)
• Hotshot by Clare Lyndon
• Rachael Treasure (author)
• Maya Linnell (author)
• Penelope Janu (author)
• McLeod's Daughters (TV series)
• The Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo by Taylor Jenkins Reid
• Girls Don't Play Sport by Chloe Dalton
• Mel Buttle's mixed emotions around Matilda's success
• Cleat Cute by Meryl Wilsner
• Spotlight (film)
• Why are Deb Balls still a thing?
• The 'Eagle Drop' to Eagle Rock by Daddy Cool
• Duck à l'Orange for Breakfast by Karina May (listen to our interview)
• Love on Campus (podcast)
• That Rom Com Pod (podcast)
• You're Wrong About (podcast)
• Just the Gist (podcast)
• The Castle (film) "it's the vibe"
• Puberty Blues (TV series)

Follow @clarefletcherwriter on Instagram

Love Match is available now. Thank you to Penguin Books Australia for providing us with copies of the book in preparation for the interview.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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Lex Croucher grew up in Surrey, reading a lot of books and making friends with strangers on the internet, and now lives in London with an elderly cat. With a background in social media, Lex now writes historical-ish rom-coms for adults (Reputation, Infamous) and historical fantasy rom-coms for teenagers. We're discussing their debut YA novel, Gwen and Art Are Not in Love.

Our interview begins at 34:00

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Mini book club: Fish Out of Water

We are going full spoilers with this book because we found it quite problematic and wanted to fully discuss our thoughts.

The blurb makes it sound like swimmer Finn may be questioning his sexuality, but the book takes a dark turn into emotional abuse and coercive control with no thorough questioning representation and a problematic ending.

*We read copies provided by Text Publishing for review.

In this interview, we chat about:

• What is 'authentic historical fiction'? Why Gwen and Art is a blend of fantasy and history
• The difference between writing Regency romance and Gwen and Art
• Cover art to drool over – including a special edition proof with scratch-off gold foil heart
• Why Lex sought comfort in reading and writing queer YA during London lockdowns
• An overview of Trouble – which basically asks 'what if Maria in Sound of Music was coming to the house with nefarious intentions'
• The beauty of 'unlikeable' protagonists
• The madness of having two books released within months of each other
• Lex's journey to publication (both non-fiction and fiction) and what it takes to make money as an author

Books and other things mentioned:

• After the Fall by Louise O'Neill (listen to our interview)
• A Knight's Tale (film)
• Georgette Heyer (author)
• Bridgerton (series)
• Gideon the Ninth by Tamsyn Muir
• Any Way the Wind Blows by Rainbow Rowell
• Double Booked by Lily Lindon
• 'Dumb bitch lit' with Genevieve Novak

Follow @lexcanroar on Instagram

Gwen and Art Are Not in Love is available in Australia and the UK now. Trouble will be released in July.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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Ashley Kalagian Blunt is the author of Dark Mode, an internationally published psychological thriller. Her earlier books are How to Be Australian, a memoir, and My Name Is Revenge, collected fiction and essays, which was a finalist in the 2018 Carmel Bird Digital Literary Award. Her writing appears in the Sydney widely across Australian publications, and she co-hosts James and Ashley Stay at Home, a podcast about writing, creativity and health, and teaches creative writing. Originally from Canada, she has lived and worked in South Korea, Peru and Mexico.

Our interview begins at 18:00

Please note this book includes graphic descriptions of sexual and physical violence. Our discussions in this interview about true crime and the manosphere may also be triggering

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Caitlin recommends: Yellowface by R.F. Kuang*

A scathing exploration of cultural appropriation and publishing. A compelling read you'll race through.

*Caitlin read a copy through her role at Harper Collins Australia

Michelle recommends: Dancing Barefoot by Alice Boyle*

A delightful YA that puts a queer twist on the classic high school romance.

*Michelle read a copy from Text Publishing.

Bonus recommendation: In Search of a Shepherd by Dave Burton

In this interview, we chat about:

• How this fictional thriller was inspired by The Men Who Hate Women by Laura Bates and the 'manosphere'
• WTF is the dark web?
• Ashley's approach to her online presence and how it influenced the book (and why you need to change your passwords)
• The Black Dahlia and how true crime podcasts inspired Ashley's writing
• The surprising links between Ashley's research into genocide and the manosphere
• The move from memoir and essays into writing and publishing fiction

Books and other things mentioned:

• I'll Be Gone in the Dark by Michelle McNamara
• Redhanded episode 291: The Silk Road
• Root of Evil (podcast)
• The Somerton Man was finally identified after decades of being a fascinating unsolved mystery (ABC feature)
• Gunpowder (TV series)
• Triflers Need Not Apply by Camilla Bruce
• Women in Crime (podcast)

Follow @AKalagianBlunt on Instagram

Dark Mode is available now. Thank you to UQP for providing us with copies of the book in preparation for the interview.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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Karina May is a Sydney-based former magazine journalist turned digital marketer, avid reader and writer of lively love stories that span the globe. When she's not dreaming up her next meet-cute, you'll likely find her rescuing her paperback from the bath, or out guzzling espresso martinis in the name of research. We're discussing her new novel, Duck á l'Orange for Breakfast.

Our interview begins at 21:00

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

It's been a real week for us reading-wise. Michelle's been abandoning books left, right and centre and we couldn't settle on a book club. We're both in a bit of a reading slump!

So, this intro is slightly chaotic with a moving-to-the-UK update from Michelle, plus book and TV recommendations from both.

Caitlin recommends: Happy Place by Emily Henry and Queen Charlotte (TV)

Michelle recommends: Double Booked by Lily Lindon and Blue Lights (TV)

In this interview, we chat about:

• How Karina's own experience undergoing two brain surgeries inspired the novel
• In contrast, how Karina wrote what she didn't know using the help of a French chef to create recipes for the novel
• Why IKEA became such a focal point of Max's story
• Karina's love of travel and how it helped shape the novel
• The journey to publication and why Karina has a second book coming out this year

Books and other things mentioned:

• The Fault in Our Stars by John Green
• 500 Days of Summer (film)

Follow @karinamaywrite on Instagram

Duck á l'Orange for Breakfast is available now. Thank you to Pan Macmillan Australia for providing copies of the book in preparation for the interview.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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Trang Thanh Tran writes speculative stories about food, belonging and the Vietnamese diaspora. When not writing, they can be found over-caffeinating on iced coffee and watching zombie movies. She Is A Haunting is their debut novel.

Our interview begins at 00:19

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Caitlin recommends: The Trial by Laura Bates

An intense survival story about a group of teens stranded on an island after a plane crash. You'll be hooked from the start.

Michelle recommends: Homecoming by Kate Morton

A beautiful and moving novel exploring dark family secrets across parallel timelines in 2018 and 1959.

In this interview, we chat about:

• How 'zombie ants' inspired so many elements of the haunting explored in the novel
• How Trang revises her novels with a reverse outline spreadsheet and how this keeps tension and suspense throughout the novel
• The ongoing consequences of families being split by an ocean
• Feeling like an outsider in the country your parents called home
• Weaving in historical research (without it taking over the story)
• Exploring the relationship between 'expert' outsiders and marginalised communities
• How music inspires Trang's writing process
• Trang's journey to publication – within the year she'd allowed herself to explore writing
• How it felt to see a full Vietnamese name on the New York Times bestseller list

Books and other things mentioned:

• The Burning by Laura Bates
• Just the Gist's episode on the Trashman Yacht Sinking
• See the three covers of Kate Morton's Homecoming here
• The Last of Us (TV series)
• The She Is A Haunting playlist

Follow Trang @nvtran_

She Is a Haunting is available now. Thank you to Bloomsbury for providing us with copies in preparation for the interview.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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Claire Christian tells stories: she is a writer, theatre maker and facilitator. She has three novels published with Text publishing. Beautiful Mess won the Text Prize in 2016. It’s Been A Pleasure, Noni Blake was released in 2020. She has had the great joy of directing Michelle Law’s smash hit comedy Single Asian Female since 2017. She is a proud member of the Mama’s Boys theatre collective whose hip-hop theatrical explosion Brothers Book Club premiered in 2022. Her Plays Lysa and the Freeborn Dames, Talking to Brick Walls, Hedonism’s Second Album and The Landmine is Me are available through Playlab. Today, we're discussing her third novel, West Side Honey.

Our interview begins at 26:00

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Mini book club: Friendaholic by Elizabeth Day*

In this memoir meets conversation, Elizabeth Day explores what it means to be a good friend versus being good at friendships (no matter the cost). We both really enjoyed this and loved the way various friendships were explored in the book.

We read copies provided by Harper Collins Australia.

In this interview, we chat about:

• Subverting traditional romance tropes and creating realistic characters
• Exploring self-love and self-acceptance in West Side Honey
• How Claire's experiences online dating inspired conversations between characters in the novel (and the dating profiles)
• How to write great sex scenes – and not get embarrassed when your editor reads them
• The big changes Claire had to make to her first draft
• Why Claire chose to explore some dark and deep feelings in what is otherwise a super uplifting book
• Claire's journey into the arts and theatre world, before her publishing deal
• Why Claire wanted to show a single mum with a great sex life in Cleo's story

Books and other things mentioned:

• Michelle's writing on grief when it doesn't 'feel right'
• How to Be Happy by David Burton
• Listen to our chat with Nina Kenwood on the re-read session
• Loner by Georgina Young
• Listen to our chat with Sarah Ayoub
• Social Queue by Kay Kerr (listen to our chat)
• Loveless by Alice Oseman (listen to our chat)

Follow Claire @claireandpearl on Instagram

West Side Honey is available now. Thank you to Text Publishing for providing us with copies in preparation for the interview.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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Josh grew up on a farm in the Lake District before moving to Manchester with his family, where he spent his teenage years loving the city. He moved to London to train at RADA as an actor and has performed in the West End and on Broadway. After deciding to change careers, Josh began training as a mental health nurse and, at the same time, started writing his first book. Josh lives in Manchester with his husband* and their dog Dodger.

*Since we recorded this, Josh and David got married! Congratulations! (Take a look at their handsome pics here)

Our interview begins at [time]

Before you dive into the interview, be sure to listen to Michelle's brand new audio documentary, The Great Australian Camel Race for ABC RN's The History Listen. Listen here.

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Caitlin recommends: The Grandest Bookshop in the World by Amelia Mellor

A magical and captivating older middle-grade novel about two girls growing up in a brilliant Melbourne bookshop in the 1890s.

Michelle recommends: The Secret Life of Albert Entwistle by Matt Cain

This is one friend of the podcast Laura Kay recommended back in early 2021. A gorgeous contemporary novel where you just want to befriend all the characters. I was enchanted by Albert’s story and utterly invested in making sure he found himself again.

In this interview, we chat about:

• Creating the dystopian setting of HappyHead
• Josh's career change from actor to mental health nurse and how his experience inspired the novel
• How Josh's experience of growing up gay is mirrored through the challenges the main character Seb faces in accepting his sexuality
• The impact that seeing things like Strictly Come Dancing's first male/male pairing had on queer communities (see one of their dances here)
• The deep and ongoing impact that shame around sexuality has on people
• Josh's drama school and acting experience (and the hangovers from that, which also influenced the book)
• How Josh got his publication deal and what's next

Books and other things mentioned:

• The Portable Door (film)
• Becoming Ted by Matt Cain
• Drag Addict (musical)
• The Hush by Sara Foster – our interview also included a lot of Sara's research into the dystopian genre which is fascinating in the context of our chat with Josh.
• The Handmaid's Tail by Margaret Atwood
• The Great British Bake Off
• The Institute (play written by Josh's husband David Dawson)
• My Policeman (film)
• Queer As Folk (TV series)
• Jules Von Hep's incredible white bridal suit
• Cats (the movie)
• Back to the Future (musical)
• Matilda (musical and movie)
• The First Time I Thought I Was Dying by Sarah Walker (listen to our interview)
• Moulin Rouge (movie)
• Dear Evan Hansen (movie)
• Dumplin' (movie)
• It's a Sin (TV series)
• In Our Blood (TV series)

Follow Josh @smudgecotton

HappyHead is available in the UK and Australia now! Thank you to Bloomsbury for sending us copies to read in preparation for the interview.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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Genevieve Novak is a writer from all over, but who now lives in Melbourne on Wurundjeri land. She writes romantic comedies, women’s fiction, and columns for The Age and the Sydney Morning Herald that make men on Twitter very upset. Her first novel, No Hard Feelings, was released in 2021, and her second novel, Crushing, is out now.

Genevieve's corgi Victor also joins us and you'll hear him in a few places.

Our interview begins at 20:00

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Mini book club: Janice Hallett's The Appeal and The Mysterious Case of the Alperton Angels

Janice Hallett's mystery novels feel truly fresh and unique. They're always in the style of 'found documents', a collection of emails, texts, briefings and other documents.

Both are intriguing and totally gripping novels that you can get swept up in over the course of a few hours.

In this interview, we chat about:

• Why Genevieve calls her books 'dumb bitch lit' and why the main characters of both her novels make kinda infuriating decisions
• How Marie's past relationships are represented in Crushing and how she needs to rebuild her sense of self outside these men
• Genevieve's writing process and whether the character or plot comes first
• The ugly reality of jealousy in friendships and between siblings
• The overwhelm/strangeness of building modern relationships over text and apps
• How we value ambition and career 'success' and how it's explored in the novel
• Striking the right balance between observations, wit and humour in writing
• Genevieve's journey to publication with her debut, No Hard Feelings

Books and other things mentioned:

• Wrong Place Wrong Time by Gillian McAllister (Michelle's recommendation)
• Michelle's Substack review of The Mysterious Case of the Alperton Angels
• The Twyford Code by Janice Hallett
• Cultish by Amanda Montell
• I'll Be Gone in the Dark by Michelle McNamara
• Janice Hallett's success discussed in The Bookseller
• Well-dressed and distressed: why sad young women are the latest book cover trend via The Guardian
• Shameless Media weekly newsletter (sorry, we can't link to the specific edition we mentioned)

Follow Genevieve @genevieve.nvk

Crushing is available now. Thank you to Harper Collins Australia for providing copies of the book in preparation for the interview.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

Please note that we choose podcast guests independently of Caitlin's job at HarperCollins Publishers. Although her job does help put us in touch with authors, we choose our guests based on what we've enjoyed reading and think you'd find interesting.

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Karen Comer is a freelance editor and presents writing workshops to children and adults. Earlier in her career, she worked in educational publishing and was the editor for the children's art magazine BIG. She lives in Melbourne. Grace Notes, a YA verse novel, was published in February 2023 with Hachette. Her MG verse novel, Sunshine on Vinegar Street, will be published in June 2023 with Allen & Unwin.

Our interview begins at 00:12:00

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Caitlin recommends: One Night with You by Laura Jane Williams

One Night With You has an excellent rom-com premise: Nick is new to London and needs to buy a couch. Ruby is moving to Manchester and needs to sell her couch. They meet on Facebook Marketplace and end up having a one-night stand. That should be it, but no! They keep crossing paths and stay in each other’s lives as Nick explores his new life and Ruby is working on a documentary for her masters. A brilliantly fun, classic rom-com.

Caitlin read a review copy through Harper Collins Australia.

Michelle recommends: In Case of Emergency by Poorna Bell

After a traumatic accident, Bel has to face the reality that her independence may have pushed many of her loved ones away. So she sets out to reconnect – first with a former best friend and then with her sister. A beautiful contemporary novel exploring growing up British Indian, sisterhood and friendships.

In this interview, we chat about:

• Why Grace Notes was never meant to be about the pandemic
• How Karen researched the art forms in the novel (graffiti and violin) and why it evolved from just Crux's perspective to a dual narrative
• The fascinating story behind the Grace Notes cover
• How the pandemic experience in Melbourne shaped the storyline
• The delicate process of drafting verse and how Karen combines emotions and story in such a small space
• Karen's MG verse novel, Sunshine on Vinegar Street
• The journey from manuscript to two book deals – and the 13 years of hard work behind it
• The beauty of editing and shaping our words

Books and other things mentioned:

• Stronger by Poorna Bell
• In Search of Silence by Poorna Bell
• Laura Jane Williams on Better Words
• Yinka, Where is Your Huzband? by Lizzie Damilola Blackburn (listen to our interview)
• Leanne Yong's interview for Two Can Play That Game
• Sarah Crossan's verse novels

Follow Karen @karen__comer

Grace Notes is available now! Thank you to Hachette for sending us a copy of the book in preparation for the interview.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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Jessica Dettmann is the author of three novels: How To be Second Best, This Has Been Absolutely Lovely, and Without Further Ado, and a picture book called There’s No Such Book. After a decade working as a book editor for Random House, HarperCollins and freelance, she made the transition to writing after having kids. She was born and raised in Sydney and here she remains, disappointing her fourteen-year-old self, who assumed she would be living in the pensione in Florence from A Room With A View by now.

Our interview begins at 00:19:00

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Mini book club: Am I Normal Yet? by Holly Bourne (The Spinster Club #1)

Evie is 16 and determined to be 'normal', continuing her recovery from OCD and anxiety. But as she starts college and tries to live a 'normal' teenage life, things start to spiral out of control. An enjoyable, although at times emotional, exploration of how mental health is never linear. Plus, it's a rousing feminist manifesto - although we think some of the topics would be discussed slightly differently today than in 2015.

In this interview, we chat about:

• Why Jessica is obsessed with the 1993 adaptation of Much Ado About Nothing and how it sparked the idea for this novel
• How Willa's love for that movie has shaped her romantic journey and why Jessica wanted to explore that in the novel
• Exploring large families and their intricacies in fiction
• Jessica's experience working in the publishing industry and how it felt to transition into being an author
• How Jessica once sat on the balcony of Sydney Town Hall dressed as a Christmas angel

Books and other things mentioned:

• How Do You Like Me Now?, Pretending and Girl Friends by Holly Bourne
• Much Ado About Nothing (1993 film - see the opening scenes here)
• Angus, Thongs and Perfect Snogging (film)
• 10 Things I Hate About You (film)
• Upstart Crow (TV series)
• Into the Woods (production and film)

Follow Jessica at @jessicadettmannauthor

Without Further Ado is available now.

Please note that we choose podcast guests independently of Caitlin's job at HarperCollins Publishers. Although her job does help put us in touch with authors, we choose our guests based on what we've enjoyed reading and think you'd find interesting.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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Leanne is an Asian-Australian author of Singaporean and Malaysian heritage who loves writing the diaspora experience into contemporary and fantasy fiction.

She started her career as an IT business analyst (boring – her words, not ours!) and is now an escape room creator (much more interesting). She has designed internationally recognised games with her partner that weave unique puzzle mechanics with narrative.

Although she lives in Sydney, Brisbane is where her home is.

Our interview begins at 0:19:00

We've got a Substack publication now! On the last day of the month, we share recommendations for two things we reckon you should read/watch/listen to. The beauty of Substack is you can revisit all our old editions and comment on our episode updates to share your thoughts. Come say hi!

Caitlin recommends: Jennette McCurdy at All About Women 2023

We wouldn't usually recommend an event that's passed, but for a limited time you can rent the live stream of this conversation between Jennette McCurdy and our fave Rosie Waterland. Off the back of that Caitlin recommends I'm Glad My Mom Died by Jennette McCurdy and Rosie Waterland's two books, The Anti-Cool Girl and Every Lie I've Ever Told.

Michelle recommends: Wrong Place Wrong Time by Gillian McAllister

This is a twisty thriller of the best kind, exploring the little moments that lead up to life-changing events. Perfect for non-thriller readers and guaranteed to keep you up past your bedtime.

In this interview, we chat about:

• Leanne's love for gaming – and why she didn't actually expect to write about it
• Why Leanne 'aged down' protagonist Sam from graduating uni to post-high school to secure a book deal
• Exploring cultural expectations, Malaysian food and supportive Asian parents
• How Leanne got into gaming
• The real games that inspired the novel's games – and how Leanne wrote those scenes
• Leanne's journey to publication (and the many manuscripts she wrote along the way)
• How Leanne became an escape room designer

Books and other things mentioned:

• Hogwarts Legacy (game)
• Take a Bow, Noah Mitchell by Tobias Madden (listen to us chat about the book here)
• Red Dead Redemption II (game)
• Final Fantasy 7 (game)
• What Was Gamergate?

Follow Leanne @shewhowritesthings

Two Can Play That Game is available now. Thank you to Allen & Unwin for providing a copy of the book in preparation for the interview.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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It's our favourite episode of the year – our favourite books, films, TV and audio of the year. Thank you for joining us in 2022 and supporting our wonderful authors.

We've started a Substack for Better Words to give you extra mini recommendations each month outside of our podcast episodes. Come join us!

You can also find us Storygraph: Michelle and Caitlin.

Season 10 (can you BELIEVE?!) will be in your ears in a few months.

We're keeping recommendations brief. If we've featured or discussed the book before, we'll link to the episode.

We'll mark any PR/review copies with *

Adult fiction

Caitlin:

• Babel by R.F. Kuang*
• All My Mothers by Joanna Glen* (original rec)
• The Seven Skins of Esther Wilding by Holly Ringland*

Michelle:

• Girl Friends by Holly Bourne
• Cat Lady by Dawn O'Porter
• Yinka, Where is Your Huzband? by Lizzie Damilola Blackburn* (interview)

Young Adult

Caitlin:

• Libby Lawrence is Good at Pretending by Jodi McAlister* (interview)
• The Cult of Romance by Sarah Ayoub* (interview)
• August and Jones by Pip Harry* (interview)

Michelle:

• Unnecessary Drama by Nina Kenwood* (interview)
• Blood to Poison by Mary Watson* (interview)
• Sugar by Carly Nugent* (interview)

Non-fiction

Caitlin:

• How to Be Perfect by Mike Schur
• Friends, Lovers and the Big Terrible Thing by Matthew Perry
• I'm Glad My Mom Died by Jeanette McCurdy

Michelle:

• Why Did You Stay? by Rebecca Humphries (read my Substack review)
• Redhanded: An Exploration of Criminals, Cannibals, Cults, and What Makes a Killer Tick by Suruthi Bala and Hannah McGuire
• Parsnips, Buttered by Joe Lycett

Favourite cover

Caitlin: Tiny Uncertain Miracles by Michelle Johnston

Michelle: The Lamplighters by Emma Stonex

The hype read

Caitlin: Book Lovers by Emily Henry

Michelle: The Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo by Taylor Jenkins-Reid

The book we recommend to each other

Caitlin: I'm Glad My Mom Died by Jeanette McCurdy

Michelle: All Our Hidden Gifts by Caroline O'Donohue

The new release we want to read

Caitlin: Love & Autism by Kay Kerr

Michelle: The Vintage Shop of Second Chances by Libby Page

(We also both have Spare on reserve at the library)

The book we already own and want to actually read

Caitlin: Looking for Alibrandi by Melina Marchetta

Michelle: Still Life by Sarah Winman

TV

Caitlin:

• Barry
• She-Hulk: Attorney at Law
• The Resort

Michelle:

• Chernobyl
• The Dropout
• Holby City

Joint favourite: Heartstopper (listen to our full discussion)

Movies

Caitlin:

• West Side Story
• Being the Riccardos

Michelle:

• Downton Abbey: A New Era
• More, More, More by Joe Lycett

Joint recommendation: Matilda the Musical (Netflix)

Audio

Caitlin:

• Midnights by Taylor Swift
• And That's What You Really Missed
• Maisie Peters

Michelle:

• Redhanded
• There's Nothing But Space, Man by Sam Ryder
• All Killa, No Filla

Books and other things mentioned

• The Lost Flowers of Alice Hart
• Just the Gist 2022 reccos and recommendations episode
• Beyond the Wand by Tom Felton
• Dying of Politeness by Geena Davis
• A Class Act by Rob Beckett
• Windswept and Interesting by Billy Connolly
• Wahala by Nikki May
• Palm Springs (film)
• Happy Valley season 3 (TV series)
• Slate article on Matilda's Trunchbull evolution
• The Lonely Island
• Eurovision: The Story of Fire Saga (film)

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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We're switching things up for Season 9: Welcome to The Re-Read. In this mini-season, we check in with a selection of past guests to find out what they've been working on. Expect lots of books, some babies and plenty of chat.

This season works a little differently, without book recommendations from us at the start of each episode. But we promise you'll still get plenty of books added to your TBR!

Interview 1: Gabrielle Tozer

Gabrielle Tozer was one of the first guests on the podcast, so she's been very busy since we last spoke. She joins us to discuss her children’s book Melody Trumpet, and another Young Adult novel, Can’t Say it Went to Plan.

You can follow Gabrielle on Instagram @gabrielletozer

In this interview, we chat about:

• How motherhood has changed Gabrielle's writing career and what styles she wants to write
• Why every book needs a different writing process
• Gab's latest YA novel, Can't Say It Went to Plan, and choosing how to portray Schoolies experiences

Can't Say It Went to Plan is available in Australia now. Remind Me How It Ends is now available in the US.

Interview 2: Rhiannon Wilde

Rhiannon Wilde joined us in 2021 to chat about her debut YA novel, Henry Hamlet's Heart. We were itching to discuss her second novel, Where You Left Us, which was released in September.

Listen to our previous chat with Rhiannon here.

You can follow Rhiannon on Instagram @rhiannon_wilde

In this interview, we chat about:

• Writing about anxiety while dealing with it as a creative person
• Second book nerves, perfectionism and confronting your own ambition as a writer
• Going from writing in isolation to finally visiting writer's festivals
• What Rhiannon is working on next

Where You Left Us is available now in Australia. Henry Hamlet's Heart is out now in the US.

Books and other things mentioned:

• Angus, Thongs, and Perfect Snogging (film)
• Before the Beginning by Anna Morgan
• Sophie Gonzales' publishing journey (listen to our chat here)
• Folklore, Evermore and Midnights by Taylor Swift
• Girl Friend by Holly Bourne

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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We're switching things up for Season 9: Welcome to The Re-Read. In this mini-season, we check in with a selection of past guests to find out what they've been working on. Expect lots of books, some babies and plenty of chat.

This season works a little differently, without book recommendations from us at the start of each episode. But we promise you'll still get plenty of books added to your TBR!

Interview 1: Pip Harry

After we spoke to Pip Harry about her 2017 YA novel, Because of You, she moved to Singapore for several years and has only recently returned to Australia. She’s also been busy on the publishing front...

She published a verse novel for young teens, Are You There Budda?, in 2021. But Pip has also moved into middle grade fiction, including the 2020 CBCA children’s book of the year for younger readers - The Little Wave, which was published in 2019 - and her latest book, August and Jones, published in June this year.

You can follow Pip on Instagram @piphaz

In this interview, we chat about:

• How Pip went from writing YA to writing verse novels for middle-grade audiences
• The gorgeous real-life friendship that inspired Pip's latest book, August and Jones
• Making disability visible through storytelling and working

August and Jones is available now. Thank you to UQP for sending us copies of the book in preparation for the interview.

Interview 2: Ellie Marney

Ellie Marney is the bestselling and award winning author of the Every series, and she’s been very busy since we spoke to her about self publishing No Limits back in 2017. With White Night in 2018, The Circus Hearts series, None Shall Sleep in 2020, The Killing Code in 2022 and Some Shall Break coming in 2023.

You can follow @elliemarney on Instagram

In this interview, we chat about:

• What Ellie's been up to since she first spoke to us five years ago
• The evolution of the #LoveOzYA movement
• Writing 'a YA Silence of the Lambs' and how that helped Ellie crack the US market
• Ellie's 2022 book The Killing Code and codebreaking in WWII
• Inside the wild world of Washington in WWII

The Killing Code is available now. Some Shall Break will be available in June.

Books and other things mentioned:

• The Weight of Water by Sarah Crossan
• Unnecessary Drama by Nina Kenwood (listen to our chat with Nina here)
• The Book Thief by Marcus Zusak
• You Can't Ask That (TV series)
• Fighting Words by Kimberley Brubaker-Bradley (listen to our chat here)
• Silence of the Lambs (film)
• Mindhunter (TV series)
• Mindhunter by John Douglas
• The Imitation Game (film)
• The Bletchley Circle (TV series)
• Code Girls by Liza Mundy
• The Flatshare by Beth O'Leary
• Redhanded (podcast)
• Real Crime Profile (podcast)

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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We're switching things up for Season 9: Welcome to The Re-Read. In this mini-season, we check in with a selection of past guests to find out what they've been working on. Expect lots of books, some babies and plenty of chat.

This season works a little differently, without book recommendations from us at the start of each episode. But we promise you'll still get plenty of books added to your TBR!

Interview 1: Laura Kay

Laura Kay is a journalist and editor. She has an MA in American History from the University of Sheffield, and now lives in London with her wife and cat. In 2018, Laura was selected as one of the 10 PRH WriteNow mentees. We first spoke to her about her debut, The Split and we're delighted to have her on the podcast again to chat about her second novel, Tell Me Everything.

Listen to our previous chat with Laura here.

Follow Laura on Instagram @lauraekay

In this interview, we chat about:

• Writing therapy scenes and internal monologues in the book
• The cover design for Tell Me Everything
• Publishing queer rom-coms and finding mainstream shelf space
• Being able to celebrate the book release out of lockdown
• What Laura's working on now

Tell Me Everything is available now.

Interview 2: Danielle Wood (Minnie Darke)

Danielle Wood or Minnie Darke? Our guest goes by a few names, but we just called her Danielle. We first spoke to Danielle about the publication of Star Crossed in 2019. This time, she's chatting about her new book With Love from Wish and Co.

Listen to our previous chat with Danielle here.

You can follow Danielle as Minnie on Instagram @minniedarke

In this interview, we chat about:

• What it was like to have a book come out in March 2020 and choosing whether to include Covid in the new book
• Professional gift buying and how it inspired With Love from Wish and Co
• The bonding of gift giving
• The experience of writing an audiobook novella (Wild Apples, coming soon)
• What it's like being a writer with more than one persona, and the benefits of marketing as two separate authors

With Love from Wish and Co is available now.

Books and other things mentioned

• Freaky Friday (film)
• Crazy Ex-Girlfriend (TV series)
• No Hard Feelings by Genevieve Novak
• Schitt's Creek (TV series)
• Double Booked by Lily Lindon
• Welcome to Your Life by Bethany Rutter

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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We're switching things up for Season 9: Welcome to The Re-Read. In this mini-season, we check in with a selection of past guests to find out what they've been working on. Expect lots of books, some babies and plenty of chat.

This season works a little differently, without book recommendations from us at the start of each episode. But we promise you'll still get plenty of books added to your TBR!

Interview 1: Tobias Madden

Tobias grew up in Ballarat and worked for 10 years as a performer touring Australia and New Zealand with musicals, including Mary Poppins, CATS, Singin' in the Rain, and Guys and Dolls. We first spoke to him for Better Words in 2019 when he edited and published Underdog, the first #LoveOzYA short story collection for previously unpublished Aussie writers. In 2019, he also wrote a cabaret show, Siblingship, which played to sold-out audiences and several cities. In 2021, we spoke to him about his debut YA novel Anything But Fine. Now we're chatting about his second book, Take a Bow, Noah Mitchell.

Listen to our previous chat with Tobias here.

You can follow Tobias on Instagram @tobias_madden

In this interview, we chat about:

• Going viral (and knowing JLo's seen it!)
• Why we're getting sick of social media
• Writing and publishing another novel
• What Tobias is working on next

Take a Bow, Noah Mitchell is available now in Australia and out soon in the US.

Interview 2: Nina Kenwood

Nina Kenwood has worked in the book industry for over a decade, including with Melbourne’s iconic Readings bookshop. We first spoke to her about her Text Prize-winning debut, It Sounded Better In My Head. She had also only just given birth when we first spoke to her, so we were excited to see how motherhood has impacted her writing journey in this chat about her new novel, Unnecessary Drama.

Listen to our first chat with Nina here.

You can follow Nina on Instagram @ninakenwood

In this interview, we chat about:

• Why Nina decided to "write towards joy"
• The difficult decisions over writing around Covid
• Exploring anxiety and the post-school years

Books and other things mentioned:

• Tobias and Daniel going viral
• This is Not a Book About Benedict Cumberbatch by Tabitha Carven
• The Goodbye Year by Emily Gale
• The Cult of Romance by Sarah Ayoub (listen to our interview here)

Unnecessary Drama is out in Australia and will be released in the US in August.

Thank you to Text Publishing for providing us with a copy of Unnecessary Drama prior to the interview.

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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We're switching things up for Season 9: Welcome to The Re-Read. In this mini-season, we check in with a selection of past guests to find out what they've been working on. Expect lots of books, some babies and plenty of chat.

This season works a little differently, without book recommendations from us at the start of each episode. But we promise you'll still get plenty of books added to your TBR!

We're kicking things off with a wrap-up of our travels, including some of the wonderful books we read along the way. Plus, a few other bookish adventures.

And, if you'll allow us to be a little self-indulgent, we're sharing all the details of Michelle's Edinburgh elopement. You can see shots from the day here and here.

Wanna skip to the book recommendations? We get into that at

We'll mark any PR/review copies with *

Books recommended:

Caitlin:

• Terms of Inheritance by Michelle Upton*
• Babel by RF Kuang*
• Beyond the Wand by Tom Felton

Michelle:

• Unnecessary Drama by Nina Kenwood (stay tuned for a Re-Read chat)
• The Bullet that Missed by Richard Oseman (Thursday Murder Club #3)
• Girl Friends by Holly Bourne
• Cat Lady by Dawn O'Porter
• Why Did You Stay? by Rebecca Humphries
• Tell Me Everything by Laura Kay (stay tuned for a Re-Read chat)

Bookshops visited:

• Rare Birds, Edinburgh
• Golden Hare Bookshop, Edinburgh
• Toppings and Company, Edinburgh (check out our AMAZING wedding pics in the store)
• Toppings and Company, Bath
• Waterstones, Edinburgh
• The Stripey Badger, Grassington
• Daunt Books, London
• Gay's the Word, London
• Juno Books, Sheffield

Books and other things mentioned:

• Our reception venue, The Sheep Heid, and its skittles alley
• Check out Caitlin's bookshop visits on Instagram
• The Satsuma Complex by Bob Mortimer
• Matilda (Film, Netflix)
• The Jane Austen Centre, Bath
• Murder Before Evensong by Reverend Richard Cole
• How Do You Like Me Now by Holly Bourne
• Pretending by Holly Bourne
• Michelle's going back to occasional book reviews at The Unfinished Bookshelf on Substack
• Pride! (film)
• The Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo by Taylor Jenkins Reid

Musicals:

• Come From Away
• Les Miserables
• Back to the Future
• Matilda

Connect with us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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Hayli Thomson lives in Sydney, Australia, and writes novels about candid characters for anybody who ever watched Jo March leap a fence and longed to be her best friend. Bizarrely, during her teen years, Hayli was afflicted with a 'headache' every third Monday in September, when she was left with no option but to stay home from school and watch her favourite female comedians collect Emmys live on the other side of the world. The Comedienne's Guide to Pride is her debut YA novel. Our interview begins at  00:17:00 Caitlin recommends: Abbie Chats (pilot episode) Michelle recommends: The Spy Who Dumped Me (film) Joint recommendation: Just the Gist of the Salem Witch Trials We also reminisce about the fact July marks FIVE YEARS since we started this podcast. We've been through multiple house/city/country moves, an engagement, various jobs, hosted three live interviews, interviewed dozens of incredible authors, read countless books, been on three international holidays, experienced the loss of a parent, and gone through three podcast hosts. PHEW! Because we launched into that reflection with zero preparation we forgot to say a gigantic thank you for listening to and supporting us. Whether you've been with us from the start (omg sorry about the audio quality!) or you've just started listening (hi! welcome!) we love you and we are so grateful. Happy reading and we will be back in your feeds with something a teeny bit different soon! – Michelle & Caitlin x We're also sharing a trailer this week for our pal Thalia who is launching the Wild Books podcast. It's going to fill the bookish void in your feed while we are on a break! In this interview, we chat about: Why Hayli set her book in Salem Biphobia and why Hayli wanted to explore Taylor's journey to recognising her own wrongdoings within the novel Hayli's dream trip to see Saturday Night Live filming live in New York Hayli's journey to publication, including landing her book deal in the US first

Books and other things mentioned: This Is Going to Hurt by Adam Kay The Crucible Practical Magic (film) Perfect on Paper and our interview with Sophie Gonzales Bridesmaids (film) Baby Mama (film) Parks and Recreation (series) Mock the Week (TV series) Have I Got News for You (TV series)

Follow Hayli on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/hayli.thomson/ (@hayli.thomson) The Comedienne's Guide to Pride is available now in Australia and the US. Connect with us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betterwordspod/ (@betterwordspod) Please note that we choose podcast guests independently of Caitlin's job at HarperCollins Publishers. Although her job does help put us in touch with authors, we choose our guests based on what we've enjoyed reading and think you'd find interesting.

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Jodi McAlister is an author and academic. In her author life, her latest books are Libby Lawrence Is Good At Pretending, a campus rom-com about theatre kids with too many emotions, and Here for the Right Reasons, playing with reality TV tropes. As an academic, she researches romantic love and popular culture and is a Senior Lecturer in Writing, Literature and Culture at Deakin University. Our interview begins at  [time] Caitlin recommends: The Summer I Turned Pretty (TV series) A frivolous and fun YA rom-com that feels really nostalgic of YA from the 2010s. Michelle recommends: All Our Hidden Gifts by Caroline O'Donohue Queer witchy YA. Need we say more? Okay then, tarot cards and a missing girl. Enjoy! In this interview, we chat about: Jodi's experience as a theatre kid and why it's made her the writer she is today (while also heavily influencing Libby Lawrence is Good at Pretending) Why Jodi chose to explore Much Ado About Nothing in the novel Switching between paranormal and contemporary genres and how the writing informs each project Jodi's new adult novel, Here for the Right Reasons, which is set on a season of (a show that's definitely not) The Bachelor What's it like to study popular culture academically? How the stories we tell about love affect the way we think about love in reality Jodi's research into virginity loss representation in the media The rise and fall of New Adult and where we go next

Books and other things mentioned: The Appeal by Janice Hallett Unreal: A Critical History of Reality TV (podcast) Love Island UK (TV series) The Circle UK (TV series) The Bachelor (TV series) Social Queue by Kay Kerr The Cult of Romance by Sarah Ayoub (https://www.betterwordspodcast.com/episode/cult-of-romance-sarah-ayoub (listen to our interview here)) Bloodlines by Richelle Mead Colleen Hoover (author)

Follow [Book availability] Connect with us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betterwordspod/ (@betterwordspod)

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Abigail Bergstrom has written for national publications and worked in the publishing industry for a decade. She has edited and represented countless bestsellers, building some of today’s biggest book brands and working with some of the industry’s most prominent voices. She was nominated for Literary Agent of the Year 2020 at the British Book Awards and is an intersectional feminist campaigner who co-founded the campaign ‘This Doesn’t Mean Yes’ which was covered in the media internationally. She lives in London with her boyfriend and her Italian Greyhound, Luca. Today we’re discussing her debut novel, What A Shame. Our interview begins at  00:18:00 Caitlin recommends: Now That I See You by Emma Batchelor In intriguing and heartfelt autofiction that explores changes in a relationship when one person comes out as trans. Michelle recommends: Everyone in My Family Has Killed Someone by Benjamin Stevenson Perfect for fans of Agatha Christie and Knives Out, a delicious family murder mystery that really plays into the tropes of the genre. In this interview, we chat about: Writing about 'under the surface' shame women experience To what extent are we showing the truth online (and are we comfortable with that projection?) Abigail's experience with severe burnout and how this has influenced her life, writing life and ambitions The liminal spaces in our lives Explore different portrayals of female friendships How Abigail got her book deal and her experience as an agent (with tips for those who want to be published)

Books and other things mentioned: Australia's Got Talent Moulin Rouge (musical) Mary Poppins (musical) Rick & Morty (TV series - One Crew over the Crewcoo's Morty) Thursday Murder Club by Richard Oseman Abigail's https://www.elle.com/uk/life-and-culture/a36716159/inbetweener-life-uncertainty/ (piece on liminal spaces) Notes to Self by Emilie Pine Sheila Heti Acts of Desperation by Megan Nolan Ottessa Moshfegh Fix the System, Not the Women by Laura Bates Girl Crush by Florence Given

Follow Abigail on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/abigailbergstrom/ (@abigailbergstrom) and check out her Substack https://abigailbergstrom.substack.com/p/10-reasons-i-didnt-want-to-start?showWelcome=true (Something to Say). What a Shame is available now in the UK and Australia. Thank you to Hachette Australia for sending us copies in preparation for the interview. Connect with us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betterwordspod/ (@betterwordspod)

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Lauren Draper is a Melbourne-based writer and marketing professional. She is a graduate of RMIT’s Professional Writing and Editing program and now works in children’s publishing—she loves nothing more than a story infused with magic, hijinks and a touch of nostalgia. The Museum of Broken Things, her debut novel, was acquired after it was shortlisted for the 2020 Text Prize. Her work has also been longlisted in the 2019 Richell Prize and has appeared in various non-fiction publications. She grew up in Western Australia, mostly on land but often in water. She now lives in Melbourne with a struggling coffee machine and moderately behaved golden retriever. Our interview begins at  00:15:40 Caitlin recommends: Friends: a musical parody Caitlin enjoyed this satirical musical romp through all 10 seasons of Friends. Michelle recommends: a trio of podcasts Unreal: A Critical History of Reality TV Bi People Pride Month special from Bad People Redhanded: Episode 248 – R Kelly: The Pied Piper of R&B

In this interview, we chat about: The medical artefact that inspired part of the storyline Bringing Nana Blackwell to life even though she dies before the book begins Exploring Reece's grief through the novel and dealing with grief in real life The sibling relationships at the heart of the novel Why Lauren wanted to "write a book about grief that wasn't sad" Lauren's journey into working in publishing and getting her book deal

Books and other things mentioned: Shameless podcast Bi by Dr Julia Shaw You're Wrong About (episodes on Toya Harding) https://wellcomecollection.org/ (The Wellcome Collection) in London Recreating the book cover with a rescued chair https://www.instagram.com/p/CdqAwNpj_vm/ (for Instagram) Younger (TV series)

Follow Lauren on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/laurendraperwrites/ (@laurendraperwrites) The Museum of Broken Things is out now! Thanks to Text Publishing for providing us with copies of the book to prepare for the interview. Connect with us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betterwordspod/ (@betterwordspod)

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Mary Watson is from Cape Town and now lives on the west coast of Ireland. She’s worked as an art museum guide, library assistant, theatre duty manager, and an actor in children’s musicals. She has a PhD from the University of Cape Town where she taught for many years. She won the Caine Prize in 2006, and the Philida Award in 2022. She writes short stories, young adult fantasy and thrillers. Her YA debut, The Wren Hunt, was shortlisted for the Irish Book Awards. Today we are discussing her new YA novel, Blood to Poison. Our interview begins at  00:12:00 Caitlin recommends: Book Lovers by Emily Henry A fun read that plays on (and twists) our favourite romance tropes. Michelle recommends: One Ordinary Day at a Time by Sarah J Harris A moving and beautiful contemporary novel about two unlikely friends who have the power to change each other's lives. In this interview, we chat about: How Mary's own family curse and grief inspired the novel Female anger, shame and intergenerational anger The joy Mary found in writing about her South African homeland after writing about Ireland in her previous YA books The magic Mary invented for the novel and the 'real strange' found in South Africa Mary's publishing journey and moving from adult literary books to YA after a career as an academic

Books and other things mentioned: Beach Read and You and Me on Vacation by Emily Henry

Follow Mary Watson on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/marym_watson/ (@Marym_watson) Blood to Poison is available now. Thank you to Bloomsbury for sending us copies of the book to read in preparation for the interview. Connect with us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betterwordspod/ (@betterwordspod)

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Sarah Ayoub is a journalist, bestselling author and academic with a PhD in migrant Australian YA literature. She is a Stella Schools Program ambassador, has mentored the youth curators of The Sydney Writers' Festival YA program, contributed to the anthology Arab, Australian, Other: Stories on Race and Identity and most recently been a judge for the NSW Premier's Literary Awards. Sarah was elected to the board of the Australian Society of Authors in 2021 and is currently working on her first novel for adults as the writer-in-residence of Sweatshop Literacy Movement. She regularly appears at writers festivals and schools, discussing her novels Hate is Such a Strong Word and The Yearbook Committee. We are discussing her debut picture book, The Love that Grew, and new YA novel inspired by her PhD research called The Cult of Romance. Our interview begins at  00:11:30 Caitlin recommends: The Yearbook by Holly Bourne An engrossing contemporary YA novel exploring high school and how we remember it. Michelle recommends: The Lamplighters by Emma Stonex A slow-burning mystery about mysterious disappearances from an off-shore lighthouse in the 1970s. In this interview, we chat about: How Sarah's experiences visiting Lebanon influenced Natalie's story in The Cult of Romance Why do people get married young? Positioning older YA/New Adult books in the market Sarah's choice to move away from writing YA novels Sarah's first picture book, The Love That Grew How Sarah came to write her first novel, Hate is Such a Strong Word Why feature writing is still Sarah's first love Sarah's study into multiculturalism in Australian YA and how The Cult of Romance developed as part of her PhD

Books and other things mentioned: The Handover by David M Barnett (https://www.betterwordspodcast.com/episode/love-and-other-puzzles-kimberley-allsopp (Michelle originally recommended here)) History Extra: https://www.historyextra.com/period/victorian/mystery-vanishing-lighthouse-keepers-emma-stonex-podcast/ (The Mystery of the Vanishing Lighthouse Keepers) It Only Happens in the Movies, Pretending and How Do You Like Me Now? by Holly Bourne Shameless Podcast asks "How much have you changed in 5 years?" (https://open.spotify.com/episode/6fynGwN2f07jOfC1iO3aU1?si=U_vKZcHMTteMG1hU8_rMcQ (here's the ep)) Loner by Georgina Young Libby Lawrence is Good at Pretending by Jodi McAlister Does My Head Look Big In This? by Dr Randa Abdel-Fattah Laurinda by Alice Pung

Follow Sarah on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/bysarahayoub/?hl=en (@bysarahayoub) The Cult of Romance is available now. Connect with us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betterwordspod/ (@betterwordspod) Please note that we choose podcast guests independently of Caitlin's job at HarperCollins Publishers. Although her job does help put us in touch with authors, we choose our guests based on what we've enjoyed reading and think you'd find interesting.

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Mhairi McFarlane was born in Scotland (which is why her unnecessarily confusing name is pronounced Vah-Ree). After working as a journalist, Mhairi started writing novels. She lives in Nottingham with a man and a cat. Today, we're discussing her (totally bloody wonderful) eighth novel Mad About You. Our interview begins at  00:22:00 Mini book club: This is Not a Book About Benedict Cumberbatch by Tabitha Carvan When was the last time you felt unapologetic and obsessive joy for something? We loved the way this book explored joy and passions and encouraged us to pursue that – however strange it may seem to some. Fun facts: We learn Michelle went through an Elvis phase after watching Lilo and Stitch as a child and Caitlin has added to IMBD trivia about Friends. And they both make themselves lists of things to read while on holidays because they can't not be productive. Thank you to Harper Collins Publishers for providing a copy for Michelle for review. Caitlin's position at HCP did not influence our discussion. In this interview, we chat about: Weddings and the wedding industry: why Mhairi wanted to explore this in Mad About You How Mhairi manages to tackle tricky subjects (like emotionally abusive relationships) while keeping the humour and lighthearted rom-com feel of her work How Mhairi approaches plotting out her stories Mhairi's advice for her past self (and aspiring writers) How it feels to get endorsements from iconic writers like Marian Keyes Mhairi's work as a journalist and her journey to publishing Why Mhairi still finds it hard to call herself a writer Why Mhairi sets her books in the north of England

Books and other things mentioned: Sunderland 'Til I Die (TV series) https://www.harpersbazaar.com/celebrity/latest/a38253188/adele-helped-a-fan-propose-to-his-girlfriend/ (The public proposal at the Adele concert) To All the Boys I've Loved Before (Film) One Day by David Nicholls On Writing by Stephen King

Follow Mhairi on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/mhairimcf/ (@mhairimcf) Connect with us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betterwordspod/ (@betterwordspod) Mad About You is available now in Australia and the UK. Please note that we choose podcast guests independently of Caitlin's job at HarperCollins Publishers. Although her job does help put us in touch with authors, we choose our guests based on what we've enjoyed reading and think you'd find interesting.

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Katherine Collette is a novelist, podcaster and engineer living in Melbourne. Her debut novel, The Helpline, was published in the US, UK, Germany and Italy. Her second novel The Competition was published in February 2022. She also co-hosts the writing podcast The First Time. Our interview begins at  00:12:20 P.S listen out for who next week's guest is! Caitlin recommends: Blood Moon by Lucy Cuthew An emotional and moving YA verse novel about cyberbullying and periods. Michelle recommends: The No-Show by Beth O'Leary A brilliant, fun and heartfelt contemporary novel about three women and the man who stood them up. (We've previously interviewed Beth,https://www.betterwordspodcast.com/episode/life-and-writing-after-the-flatshare-with-beth-oleary ( listen to that here)) In this interview, we chat about: The joy (and curiosity) of Toastmasters and how this inspired the novel Katherine's experience with the club and visiting the international Toastmasters conference Wrangling the book's structure and choosing the perspectives to write from (there's a lot of killing your darlings here!) Katherine's co-hosted podcast, The First Time The mystery of publishing a book The surprises of publishing for the second time Katherine's work in engineering and the combination of working in both industries How Katherine wrote her first book in between work and parenting

Books and other things mentioned: Sarah Crossan (author) Hard Quiz (TV show) Mastermind (TV show) Liane Moriarty (author) Wahala by Nikki May Ben Law (author) Cecelia Ahern (https://www.betterwordspodcast.com/episode/finding-characters-ps-i-love-you-and-lessons-from-18-novels-with-cecelia-ahern (listen to our interview)) Bri Lee (https://www.betterwordspodcast.com/episode/the-vulnerability-of-life-writing-with-bri-lee (listen to our interview)) Louise O'Neill (https://www.betterwordspodcast.com/episode/violence-isolation-and-a-changing-ireland-with-louise-oneill (listen to our interview)) Stephanie Yeboah (https://www.betterwordspodcast.com/episode/fat-acceptance-and-living-life-unapologetically-with-stephanie-yeboah (listen to our interview)) Animal by Ella Baxter

Follow Katherine at https://www.instagram.com/katherinecollettewriter/?hl=en (@katherinecollettewriter) and The First Time Podcast https://www.instagram.com/thefirsttimepod/?hl=en (@thefirsttimepod) The Competition is available now. Thanks to Text Publishing for sending us copies of the book in preparation for this interview. Connect with us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betterwordspod/ (@betterwordspod)

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Claire Kohda is a writer and musician. She reviews books for publications including the Guardian and the TLS, specialising in books from and about East Asia. Her essay, Portraits, about her experiences growing up mixed-race, also features in East Side Voices: Essays celebrating East and Southeast Asian identity in Britain, edited by Helena Lee and published by Sceptre. As a violinist, she has played with Jessie Ware, Pete Tong, the London Contemporary Orchestra, and on various film soundtracks including The Two Popes and The Matrix Resurrections Our interview begins at  00:12:30 Mini book club: Heartstopper Gush, gush, gush. Basically that's what you can expect from this chat. This series is perfect. Watch it. That's all we have to say. *PS, YES Stephen Fry IS the Truham headmaster we hear on the speakers. https://www.betterwordspodcast.com/episode/asexual-pride-and-publishing-as-a-teenager-with-alice-oseman (Listen to our original chat about Heartstopper graphic novels and interview with Alice here.) In this interview, we chat about: Why Claire wanted to explore the complications and tropes of the vampire in a new way The degree to which food helps us bond as humans and the role it plays in racism The way Western culture has such stringent book genres and generations (and why Claire was surprised Woman, Eating has been called a millennial novel) How Claire wrote the book during lockdown after her career as a musician was halted thanks to Covid The complex mother-daughter relationship explored in the book

Books and other things mentioned: Derry Girls (TV show) What We Do In The Shadows (film and TV show) Buffy (TV show) Twilight by Stephanie Meyer Dracula by Bram Stoker The Radleys by Matt Haig Father May Be an Elephant and Mother Only a Small Basket by Gogu Shyamala (short story collection)

Follow Claire @clairekohda Woman, Eating is available now. Thanks to Hachette Australia for sending us copies of the book in preparation for this interview. Connect with us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betterwordspod/ (@betterwordspod)

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Carly Nugent lives in Bright, Victoria. Her short fiction has featured in numerous publications, including the Bellevue Literary Review and Award Winning Australian Writing. Her first novel, The Peacock Detectives, won the Readings Children's Book Prize, was a CBCA younger readers Honour Book, and was shortlisted for the Text Prize, the Australian Book Design Awards and the Sisters in Crime Davitt Awards. But today we are discussing Sugar, her first novel for young adults. Our interview begins at  00:16:15 Caitlin recommends: All My Mothers by Joanna Glen A sweeping familial drama exploring all the motherhood relationships a woman experiences throughout her life.  *Caitlin received a PR copy through her role at Harper Collins Australia. Michelle recommends: The Long Drop by Denise Mina A fascinating blend of fact and fiction imagining lost hours in the life of Glasgow serial killer Peter Manuel. In this interview, we chat about: How Carly’s experience with Type 1 Diabetes inspired Persephone’s story The way language and numbers help tell the story in a unique way including in the opening pages Why Carly decided to include some difficult and traumatic moments in Persephone’s story, rather than just exploring how she lives with Diabetes How Carly felt writing for an older audience after her debut middle grade novel, The Peacock Detectives The journey to publication, including a special Text Publishing signing

Books and other things mentioned: Redhanded episode https://podfollow.com/1250599915/episode/78b11e9b022f0f7bafc3f0670db197fe1c174c40/view (230: Peter Manuel: The Beast of Birkinshaw) All Killa No Filla episode https://podfollow.com/937224870/episode/9f957da234009c4381969a17794f518cf9cba6fa/view (80: Peter Manuel) The Babysitter’s Club Something Rhymes With Purple (podcast) Vikki Wakefield's writing (all brilliant) Sick Bay by Nova Weetman 

Follow Carly https://www.instagram.com/carly_nugent/?hl=en-gb (@carly_nugent) Sugar is available now. Thanks to Text Publishing for sending us copies of the book in preparation for the interview. Connect with us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betterwordspod/ (@betterwordspod)

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Lizzie Damilola Blackburn is a British-Nigerian writer, born in Peckham, who wants to tell the stories that she and her friends have longed for but never seen. In 2019 she won the Literary Consultancy Pen Factor Writing Competition with the early draft of her debut novel, which she had been writing alongside juggling her job at Carers UK. She has been at the receiving end of the question in the title of her novel many times and now lives with her husband in Milton Keynes. Today we're chatting about her debut, Yinka, Where is your Huzband? Our interview begins at  00:21:30 Mini book club: Magpie by Elizabeth Day Skip this part of the episode if you don't want any spoilers! Magpie is a moving contemporary novel exploring relationships between mothers and daughters. We chat a lot about our impressions of this and expectations: it sounds like a domestic noir thriller at first glance, but you'll probably feel disappointed if you go into the novel expecting that... Note: Caitlin read a PR copy through her position at Harper Collins Publishers. In this interview, we chat about: Why Lizzie was drawn to the rom-com genre to explore serious issues and the importance of joyful Black stories The pressure we feel from family and society to be in a relationship How faith is included in Yinka’s story Exploring colourism throughout the novel Researching the therapy sessions incorporated into the story How Yinka started as a short story on Lizzie’s blog and the journey to publication The surprises of the editing and publishing process and how Lizzie has grown throughout it

Books and other things mentioned: Louise Candlish Beth O’Leary (https://www.betterwordspodcast.com/episode/life-and-writing-after-the-flatshare-with-beth-oleary (listen to our interview)) The Best Man (film) Brown Sugar (film) Love Jones (film) Story Engineering by Larry Brooks

Follow Lizzie https://www.instagram.com/lizziedamiblackburn/ (@lizziedamiblackburn) Connect with us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betterwordspod/ (@betterwordspod) Yinka, Where Is Your Huzband? is available now. Thank you to Viking for providing us with copies of the book.

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Kimberley Allsopp has had her work appear in Kidspot, The Sunday Telegraph and WHIMN (now Body & Soul) and she co-hosts the rom-com podcast, Meet Cute, which allows her to justify some of her otherwise questionable life choices. Kimberley has worked in bookselling and publishing since 2008. Today we're discussing her debut novel, Love & Other Puzzles. Our interview begins at  00:13:50 Caitlin recommends: Camp by L. C. Rosen. A fun queer summer camp novel where Randy attempts to catch the eye of Hudson. Michelle recommends: The Handover by David M Barnett A heartwarming contemporary about two museum security guards whose lives start to intertwine. Perfect for fans of Freckles by Cecelia Ahern (https://www.betterwordspodcast.com/episode/finding-characters-ps-i-love-you-and-lessons-from-18-novels-with-cecelia-ahern (listen to our interview)). In this interview, we chat about: Crosswords and why they’re such an important part of the book and Rory’s life (with a diversion into Wordle, of course, because it’s 2022) How Kimberley fell in love with rom-coms and why she wanted to pay homage to them in Love and Other Puzzles What it feels like to be published by the company Kimberley works for The surprises that came with being an author, even after working in the industry for years The podcast Kimberley co-hosts, Meet Cute

Books and other things mentioned: The Bold Type (TV show) Younger (TV show) Singing’ in the Rain (film) You’ve Got Mail (film) Scream (film) https://www.theguardian.com/books/2022/feb/05/well-dressed-and-distressed-why-sad-young-women-are-the-latest-book-cover-trend ('Well dressed and distressed') article by The Guardian on book cover trends Sorrow and Bliss by Meg Mason (https://www.betterwordspodcast.com/episode/the-sorrow-and-bliss-of-writing-life-with-meg-mason (listen to our interview)) Blank Check (podcast) Love Actually (film) Sense and Sensibility (film) Bridget Jones’ Diary (film) Clueless (film) As If!: The Oral History of Clueless as told by Amy Heckerling and the Cast and Crew I Want You Back (film) Starstruck (TV show) Love Life (TV show) Emily in Paris (TV show)

Follow Kimberley https://www.instagram.com/kimberleyallsopp/?hl=en (@kimberleyallsopp) Connect with us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betterwordspod/ (@betterwordspod) Love & Other Puzzles is available now. Please note that we choose podcast guests independently of Caitlin's job at HarperCollins Publishers. Although her job does help put us in touch with authors, we choose our guests based on what we've enjoyed reading and think you'd find interesting.

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We've finally got our act together to share with you our favourite fiction, films, TV and audio of the year. Thank you for joining us in 2021 and supporting our wonderful authors. (You can blame Michelle's full-time reporting contract for why this is going live in February and not January) Season 8 will be in your ears in March! We're keeping recommendations brief. If we've featured or discussed the book before, we'll link to the episode. Listen to our Non-Fiction November wrap up to hear our fave non-fiction for 2021. We'll mark any PR/review copies with * Adult fictionCaitlin: Freckles by Cecelia Ahern (https://www.betterwordspodcast.com/episode/finding-characters-ps-i-love-you-and-lessons-from-18-novels-with-cecelia-ahern (listen to the interview)) The Hush by Sara Foster (https://www.betterwordspodcast.com/episode/the-future-of-dystopia-and-exploring-the-mother-daughter-bond-with-sara-foster (listen to the interview)) It's Been a Pleasure, Noni Blake by Claire Christian (https://www.betterwordspodcast.com/episode/writing-funny-and-publishing-in-a-pandemic-with-abigail-mann (original recommendation))

Michelle: Last Night by Mhairi McFarlane* (https://www.betterwordspodcast.com/episode/creating-a-music-icon-and-oral-history-narratives-with-dawnie-walton (listen to Caitlin's recommendation)) The Couple by Helly Acton (https://www.betterwordspodcast.com/episode/unlikely-friendships-dads-in-ya-and-feedback-from-your-favourite-authors-with-tobias-madden (original recommendation)) Home Stretch by Graham Norton - a touching exploration of the way one tragic event ripples out throughout so many lives.

Adult fictions: honourable mentionsCaitlin: Beautiful World, Where Are You by Sally Rooney Michelle: The Man Who Died Twice by Richard Oseman Young AdultCaitlin: Kate in Waiting by Becky Albertalli Social Queue by Kay Kerr (https://www.betterwordspodcast.com/episode/the-absurdity-of-the-human-body-with-sarah-walker (listen to our book club)) Henry Hamlet's Heart by Rhiannon Wilde (https://www.betterwordspodcast.com/episode/teenage-male-friendships-all-boys-schools-and-peak-2000s-culture-with-rhiannon-wilde (listen to the interview))

Michelle: The Gaps by Leanne Hall (https://www.betterwordspodcast.com/episode/violence-against-women-the-perfect-victim-myth-and-slow-writing-with-leanne-hall (listen to our interview)) The Monster of Her Age by Danielle Binks (https://www.betterwordspodcast.com/episode/horror-films-acting-dynasties-and-the-strange-limbo-of-grief-with-danielle-binks (listen to our interview)) Margot and Me by Juno Dawson

The out-of-your-comfort-zone bookCaitlin: Harry Styles: The Making of a Modern Man by Sean Smith Michelle: Detransition, Baby by Torrey Peters The surprising bookCaitlin: One Last Stop by Casey McQuiston Michelle: Space Hopper by Helen Fisher (listen to our book club chat) The new release we want to read Caitlin: How to Be Perfect by Michael Schur Michelle: People Person by Candice Carty-Williams The book we already own and want to actually read Caitlin: Still Life by Sarah Winman Michelle: Shuggie Bain by Douglas Stuart TVCaitlin: Superstore Morning Wars (aka The Morning Show) Ted Lasso

Michelle: Line of Duty Motherland I'll Be Gone in the Dark

MoviesCaitlin: Dear Evan Hansen Spiderman: No Way Home Tick Tick Boom

Michelle: Promising Young Woman Cruella The Mitchells vs the Machines

AudioCaitlin: Taylor Swift: Evermore/Fearless/Red (music) Sentimental in the City Drama Queens

Michelle: RedHanded podcast You're Wrong About The Fred and Rose West Tapes

Books and other things mentionedLast Christmas (film) Queenie by Candice Carty-Williams All Killa No Filla (podcast) I, Tonya (film) The Five by Hallie Rubenhold

Connect with us on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/betterwordspod/ (@betterwordspod)

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In this festive bonus episode, we share some Christmas reads.  Michelle's recommendations One Day in December by Josie Silver: A sweet rom-com about missed opportunities and love at first sight. Dracula by Bram Stoker: If you’re experiencing a winter Christmas or dreaming of one, then experience the classic that inspired a thousand stories. Caitlin's recommendations Dash and Lily's Book of Dares by Rachel Cohn and David Leviathan: Cute YA rom-com set in New York. Delightful and magical! The Gift by Cecelia Ahern: Did we mention we interviewed Cecelia Ahern? https://betterwordspodcast.com/episodes/freckles-cecelia-ahern (Listen here)! Anyway, this is a lovely Christmas book to take your mind off the state of the world.  Bonus recommendation: For the summer Christmas fans, check out What I Like About Me by Jenna Guillaume. What we want to read this Christmas A Cornish Christmas Murder by Fiona Leitch The Secret Life of Albert Entwhistle by Matt Cain (https://betterwordspodcast.com/episodes/break-up-revenge-queer-friendships-and-anti-running-propaganda-with-laura-kay (recommended by Laura Kay when we interviewed her here))  This Winter by Alice Oseman (https://betterwordspodcast.com/episodes/asexual-pride-and-publishing-as-a-teenager-with-alice-oseman (who we interviewed in 2020))

Movies we want to watch Planes, Trains and Automobiles The Santa Claus I, II, III

Books and other things mentioned The Thursday Murder Club by Richard Oseman The Appeal by  Janice Hallett Home Alone (film)

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In this bonus episode, Michelle and Caitlin share some of their favourite non-fiction reads from 2021 just in time for #NonFictionNovember. Before we get into our recommendations, here are some of the books we've discussed and featured on the podcast in 2021... Trivial  Grievances by Bridie Jabour (https://betterwordspodcast.com/episodes/trivial-grivances-bridie-jabour (listen)) The First Time I Thought I Was Dying by Sarah Walker (https://betterwordspodcast.com/episodes/first-time-i-thought-i-was-dying-sarah-walker (listen)) Every Lie I've Ever Told by Rosie Waterland (https://betterwordspodcast.com/episodes/exploring-abuse-and-trauma-in-childrens-fiction-with-kimberly-brubaker-bradley (listen))  Cultish by Amanda Montell (https://betterwordspodcast.com/episodes/strange-and-brilliant-light-eli-lee (listen))

Michelle's recommendations The Five by Hallie Rubenhold: This is a fascinating historical examination of the five women murdered by Jack the Ripper.  It is a vivid and intricate portrayal of the social issues in Victorian England.  No Shame by Tom Allen: Delightful memoir from a brilliant comedic mind.  Adventures in Opting Out by Cait Flanders: An alternative self-help novel about how we can walk a new path in our lives, one that others may not expect us to take, written through the lens of hiking.  Caitlin's recommendations: Love Stories by Trent Dalton: Believe the hype! This is a beautiful, sweet book that will revive your faith in humanity. (Note: Caitlin's work at Harper Collins Australia did not influence her opinion of this book).  488 Rules for Life by Kitty Flanagan: Laugh-out-loud funny and relatable 'rules' for living (and not annoying the hell out of others) The Office by Andy Greene: A fascinating oral history of the show from its beginnings to massive popularity.  Books we want to read soon... How to Be Perfect: The Correct Answer to Every Moral Question by Michael Schur Sex and the City and Us by Jennifer Keishin Armstrong Parsnips, Buttered by Joe Lycett A Class Act by Rob Beckett

Other things mentioned: Hallie Rubenhold was https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2019/may/30/historian-speaks-of-constant-trolling-over-jack-the-ripper-book-hallie-rubenhold (viciously trolled) after publication of The Five More books about The Office: Welcome to Dunder Mifflin by  Brian Baumgartner and Ben Silverman, and The Office BFFs: Tales of The Office from Two Best Friend by Angela Kinsey and Jenna Fischer https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=68nM9CMO1HE (Joe Lycett takes on a Gumtree scammer)

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Sara Foster was born and raised in England but now lives in Perth with her husband and young daughters. She has previously worked as an editor in-house at HarperCollins UK and then freelance and has worked on many popular titles. She loves dystopian fiction so much that she’s studying the genre for a PhD at Curtin University. So it will come as no surprise that today we are discussing her somewhat dystopian book, and her latest novel, The Hush. Our interview begins at 21 minutes.  Mini book club: Excuse Me While I Ugly Cry by Joya Goffney A smart and addictive romantic YA novel that explores race, relationships and what it means to own your truth.  In this interview, we chat about: How Sara developed the idea for The Hush and why the mother-daughter relationship was central to the narrative Why Sara chose to write something so close to our current reality, with a story set less than 10 years in the future, and why she set it in England The freaky ways the books has mirrored real events Exploring the nuances of the mother-daughter relationship within The Hush Sara’s writing career and working on other books alongside The Hush Blending genres and why Sara is so fascinated with dystopia - how does the genre evolve from here? Why Sara wanted to pursue a PhD and how the novel developed out of that

Books and other things mentioned: 100 Remarkable Feats of Xander Maze by Clayton Zane Comber The Hate U Give (film) The Hunger Games Divergent Only Ever Yours Help (film) The Handmaid’s Tale by Margaret Atwood The Book of the Unnamed Midwife by Meg Elison

Follow Sara https://www.instagram.com/sarafosterauthor/ (@sarafosterauthor). The Hush is available now. Follow us on Instagram https://ww.instagram.com/betterwordspod (@betterwordspod) Please note that Caitlin's job at HarperCollins Publishers did not affect our decision to invite Sara to be a guest, we're delighted to have her and hope you enjoy this episode. Michelle also read a PR copy.

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Alexis Nedd is a Senior Entertainment Reporter at Mashable where she writes about TV, movies and video games with a sci-fi and fantasy focus. Her writing has appeared across numerous online publications. Today we are pleased to be chatting about her brilliant debut young adult novel, Don’t Hate the Player.  Our interview starts at 13 minutes.  Michelle recommends The Appeal by Janice Hallett Told entirely through correspondence, this novel is SO addictive and perfect if you’re looking for something to get lost in. Caitlin recommends The Babysitter’s Club (TV show) This sweet and fun series retains all the charm of the iconic books. A delightful show to watch! In this interview, we chat about:  Why growing up in a house where video games weren’t allowed sparked Alexis’s love of gaming (and how this inspired Emilia’s secret life in the book) The world of esports and why Alexis was excited to set a book in this world The darker side of gaming, where women and girls are harassed and trolled The dual-perspective of the novel and why Alexis wanted to include both perspectives (plus those of his teammates) The advice Alexis gave to the students at her old high school How Alexis got the chance to write the concept of Don’t Hate the Player and the changes she made to the original concept/outline as she was writing

Books and other things mentioned The Man Who Died Twice by Richard Oseman Explained (TV series) – episode 'esports'

Follow Alexis on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/alexisthenedd/?hl=en (@alexisthenedd) Follow us on Instagram https://ww.instagram.com/betterwordspod (@betterwordspod) Don't Hate the Player is available now!  Thank you to the team at Bloomsbury Australia for sending us copies of Don't Hate the Player in preparation for the interview.

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Sarah Walker is a writer, artist and photographer. She makes work about anxiety, control and intimacy in text, video and immersive installation across Australia and internationally. She is a Walkley-nominated essayist and critic, and co-hosted the podcast Contact Mic. Today we are discussing her beautiful book, The First Time I Thought I Was Dying.  Our interview begins at 20 minutes. Please note that this interview includes discussions about body image and mental health and may be triggering for some listeners  Mini book club: Social Queue by Kay Kerr How many ways can we say "we love this book"?! Beautiful, funny, romantic and heartfelt, Social Queue is a brilliant exploration of an autistic woman on the cusp of her adult life.  *Note: We received copies to read thanks to the team at Text Publishing.  https://betterwordspodcast.com/episodes/exploring-autism-through-ya-fiction-with-kay-kerr (Listen to our previous interview with Kay here.)  In this interview, we chat about: How the pandemic has forced everyone, globally, to become more vigilant about their physical and mental health Why Sarah wanted to explore her experience with body image through the lens of photography and the ethics of photoshop Portraying trauma and graphic events/subjects in theatre and then damaging notion that art should be a thing that hurts The obsession with American-style ‘method’ acting and why it’s the worst Grief, anxiety, panic attacks and feeling like you’re going to die Caring for our bodies and our minds The reality of our bodies and the influence of shame The research Sarah put into The First Time I Thought I was Dying The lack of discussion around mental health for men and why Sarah wanted to incorporate this within the book What happens after you ask for help with your mental health?

Books and other things mentioned: Dear Evan Hansen (film) Cruella (film) Free Guy (film) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zgRQJxiA2L8 (Enjoy this group dance from Strictly Come Dancing 2021) Normal People by Sally Rooney Sex Education (TV series) The Monster of Her Age by Danielle Binks (https://betterwordspodcast.com/episodes/monster-of-her-age-danielle-binks (podcast interview)) Deep Work by Cal Newport How to Do Nothing by Jenny O’Dell

Follow Sarah https://www.instagram.com/sarahtakesphotos/?hl=en (@sarahtakesphotos). The First Time I Thought I was Dying is available now. Follow us on Instagram https://ww.instagram.com/betterwordspod (@betterwordspod) Thank you to the team at UQP Books for providing us with copies of The First Time I Thought I Was Dying.

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Danielle Binks was one of the very first people to join us on Better Words, but we’ll be honest the sound quality is pretty bad so don’t try to listen! Anyway, our guest has supported the show from the very beginning and is one of the biggest champions of Australian literature for young adults and children. She is a literary agent and editor - the person who helped several of our previous guests secure their publishing deals. In 2017, she edited the first #LoveOzYA anthology of short stories. Her debut middle grade novel, The Year the Maps Changed was  a CBCA Notable Book for Younger Readers 2021 and shortlisted for multiple awards. Today, though, we are discussing her debut young adult novel The Monster of Her Age.  Our interview starts at 14 minutes.  Just a note before you begin, this episode does include discussions of abuse in the film and theatre industry as well as grief and loved ones dying.  Michelle recommends The Murder Box by Olivia Kiernan A  gripping psychological thriller about a murder mystery game that's being played IRL.  Note: Michelle read a PR copy from Quercus.  Caitlin recommends Blackout by Dhonielle Clayton, Tiffany D. Jackson, Nic Stone, Angie Thomas, Ashley Woodfolk, Nicola Yoon An innovative  and exciting YA where lives collide in a New York City blackout.  Note: Caitlin read a PR copy through her role at Harper Collins.  In this interview, we chat about:  Danielle’s impressive journey from blogger to #LoveOzYA champion, agent, editor and writer How the Barrymore acting clan, old Hollywood and Danielle’s love of horror films inspired The Monster of Her Age Why Danielle wanted to explore the exploitation of children stars through the lens of the horror genre The beauty of Hobart and why it’s the setting for Monster of Her Age The exploration of grief in the book and waiting for a loved one to die Danielle’s journey from agent to publication and her top tips for writers looking to get published

Books and other things mentioned Only Murders in the Building (TV series) The Cleaner (TV series) Floored  by Eleanor Wood, Holly Bourne, Lisa Williamson, Melinda Salisbury, Non Pratt, Sara Barnard and Tanya Byrne https://people.com/movies/drew-barrymore-grandfather-body-was-stolen-morgue-final-party/ (Drew Barrymore Confirms Her Grandfather's Corpse Was Stolen for Final Party) Just the Gist on Shirley Temple and The Blaire Witch Project (podcast) Judy (film) Meat Market by Juno Dawson The Seven Husbands of Evelyn Hugo and Malibu Rising by Taylor Jenkins Reid The Conjuring (film) The Exorcist (film) Zodiac (film) It Follows (film) Pan’s Labrynth (film) Devil’s Backbone (film) The Woman in Black (film) The Haunting of Hill House (TV series) Red Dragon (film) Scream (films) I Know What You Did Last Summer (film) Bridgewater (podcast) Radio Rental (podcast) Noble Blood (podcast) Frankenstein by Mary Shelley Pet Semetary (film) It and It Chapter II (films) Social Queue by Kay Kerr https://www.instagram.com/briar.rolfe/ (Briar Rolfe (graphic novel coming soon)) The Boy From the Mish by Gary Lonesborough Henry Hamlet’s Heart by Rhiannon Wilde (https://www.betterwordspodcast.com/episodes/rhiannon-wilde-henry-hamlets-heart (podcast episode)) Are You There Budda? by Pip Harry Edge of Thirteen by Nova Wheetman

Follow Danielle on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/dbinks/ (@dbinks) Follow us on Instagram https://ww.instagram.com/betterwordspod (@betterwordspod) The Monster of Her Age is available now! Thank you to the team at Hachette Australia for sending us copies of The Monster of Her Age  in preparation for the interview.

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Eli Lee was born in Dorset and now lives in London. She writes fiction and non-fiction for a variety of anthologies, magazines and websites. She is the fiction editor and a contributor to the literary journal Minor Literatures and has also worked for Strange Horizons. Her debut novel, A Strange and Brilliant Light, has just been published. Our interview begins at 15 minutes.  Mini book club: Cultish by Amanda Montell A thought-provoking  and compulsively readable exploration of how cult-ish language pervades our everyday life.  *Note: Caitlin read a copy through her job with Harper Collins Australia.  In this interview, we chat about: Why Eli describes A Strange and Brilliant Light as a ‘non-traditional sci-fi’ novel and why this was the key to finally writing the book which felt right The real-life relationship that inspired the novel Why Eli wanted to explore sexism and class struggles in an otherwise ‘advanced’ society Building the world of A Strange and Brilliant Light Eli’s top tip for writers working in any genre Exploring artificial intelligence and Eli’s research to make sure her alternate world was based on real AI possibilities Representations of AI in fiction and film How studying literature stole Eli’s confidence The strange magic of choosing a new book to read and the pleasure of re-reading

Books and other things mentioned: The Most Fun We Ever Had by Claire Lombardo The Dispossessed by Ursula K. Le Guin Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? by Philip K. Dick Her (movie) Avengers: Age of Ultron (movie) Mitchell’s Vs the Machines (movie) Klara and the Sun by Kazuo Ishiguro This is How You Lose the Time War by Amal El-Mohtar and Max Gladstone Alice Monroe (author) Elena Ferrante (author) Oryx and Crake by Margaret Atwood The Folded Clock: A Diary by Heidi Julavits  An American Marriage by Tayari Jones

Follow Elihttps://www.instagram.com/eli_lee_writes/?hl=en ( @eli_lee_writes). A Strange and Brilliant Light is available now. Follow us on Instagram https://ww.instagram.com/betterwordspod (@betterwordspod) Thank you to the team at Quercus Publishing for providing us with copes of A Strange and Brilliant Light.

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Tobias Madden has a special place in our hearts - a friend of the show and someone we are DYING to one day have a coffee with. Our guest grew up in Ballarat and worked for 10 years as a performer touring Australia and New Zealand with musicals including Mary Poppins, CATS, Singin' in the Rain, and Guys and Dolls. We first spoke to him for Better Words in 2019 when he edited and published Underdog, the first #LoveOzYA short story collection for previously unpublished Aussie writers. In 2019, he also wrote a cabaret show, Siblingship, which played to sold-out audiences and several cities. He’s a passionate member of the #LoveOzYA community and works in YA publishing. We have been very eagerly awaiting the publication of his debut novel, Anything But Fine, so we could once again welcome him to Better Words. Our interview starts at 11 minutes.  Michelle recommends The Couple by Helly Acton (audiobook version) A rom-com in a society where it's downright WEIRD to be in a couple. Thoughtful and delightful. The audiobook is especially good! Caitlin recommends The Deep End by Jenna Guillaume  This is a super cute, summer YA short story published as part of the Australia Reads campaign.  https://www.steptember.org.au/fundraisers/CaitlinToohey140321 (PS. You can support Caitlin's Steptember challenge for the Cerebral Palsy Alliance here. ) In this interview, we chat about:  Why Tobias started trying to write a full-length contemporary manuscript after spending many years writing fantasy and how it unconsciously mirrored some of his own experiences as he was writing Tobias’ experiences of homophobia growing up in a regional area The disparity between public and private schools The joy of writing Luca and Amina’s friendship in the novel Developing the relationship between Luca and his dad US publication and how much of the Aussie culture remained in the US edition How it feels to have feedback and kind reviews/quotes from your favourite authors Looking back on the Underdog #LoveOzYA short story collection and how it prepared Tobias for writing his own novel The musical Tobias co-wrote with his husband and sister-in-law

Books and other things mentioned On Writing: A Memoir of the Craft by Stephen King Loveless by Alice Oseman (https://www.betterwordspodcast.com/episodes/asexual-pride-and-publishing-as-a-teenager-with-alice-oseman (podcast episode)) Untidy Towns by Kate O’Donnell (https://www.betterwordspodcast.com/episodes/you-dont-need-a-plan-with-kate-odonnell (podcast episode)) Social Queue by Kay Kerr (https://www.betterwordspodcast.com/episodes/exploring-autism-through-ya-fiction-with-kay-kerr (podcast episode)) It Sounded Better in My Head by Nina Kenwood (https://www.betterwordspodcast.com/episodes/writing-the-stories-we-needed-with-nina-kenwood (podcast episode)) Henry Hamlet’s Heart by Rhiannon Wilde (https://www.betterwordspodcast.com/episodes/rhiannon-wilde-henry-hamlets-heart (podcast episode))

Follow Tobias on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/tobias_madden/ (@tobias_madden) Follow us on Instagram https://ww.instagram.com/betterwordspod (@betterwordspod) Anything But Fine is available now and will be released in the US in early 2022. Thank you to the team at Penguin Teen Aus for sending us copies of Anything But Fine  in preparation for the interview.

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Cecelia Ahern almost needs no introduction. She is the best selling novelist at 21 when her first book PS I Love You was published and later made into a hit film. Since then she has published 17 other books, sold more than 25 million copies of her books in more than 40 countries. Her highly acclaimed collection of stories, Roar, is being adapted for Apple TV and stars Nicole Kidman and several other huge names. Her latest, and 18th novel, Freckles is out now.  Our interview begins at 18 minutes.  Mini book club: It's Not You, It's Me by Gabrielle Williams A fun and unique time-travel/body switch story catapulting a 40-year-old woman from 2020 back into the body of a 1980s teenager.  We’ve previously interviewed Gabrielle when her book My Life as a Hashtag was published. You can listen to that https://betterwordspodcast.com/episodes/staying-relevant-with-gabrielle-williams (here) (or search the podcast feed) *Note: We both received PR copies from the team at Allen & Unwin.  In this interview, we chat about: The conversation which sparked the premise for Freckles based on the idea that you are the sum of the five people you spend the most time with Why Cecelia felt drawn to developing a character who was a parking warden and how Allegra’s voice came to her Why Cecelia chose to set part of the book on Valentia Island in County Kerry How Cecelia knows an idea is worth being a book (and the high that comes with it) Cecelia’s writing process and  what she has to get right before she starts a draft (and the advice she ALWAYS gets from her editor even after 18 books) Reflecting on her debut novel PS I Love You and its wild success Why Cecelia re-visited the world of PS I Love You with Postscript The advice Cecelia would give to her younger self as a writer and person The Apple TV adaptation of her short story collection Roar

Books and other things mentioned: Australian Reading Hour (https://www.instagram.com/australiareads/?hl=en (check them out on social media here)) Space Hopper (which we chatted about in  episode 4 of this season) Friends Back to the Future Brooklyn by Colm Tóibín

Follow Cecelia https://www.instagram.com/official_ceceliaahern/ (@official_ceceliaahern). Freckles is available now. Follow us on Instagram https://ww.instagram.com/betterwordspod (@betterwordspod) Please note that Caitlin's job at HarperCollins Publishers did not affect our decision to invite Cecelia to be a guest, we're delighted to have her and hope you enjoy this episode. Michelle also read a PR copy.

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Sonia Velton grew up living between the Bahamas and the UK. She has worked as a solicitor at an international law firm and lived in the Middle East for eight years. She has since moved back to England where she lives with her three children. Her first novel, Blackberry and Wile Rose, was a historical fiction inspired by real characters and events. Her latest novel, The Image of Her, is something entirely different and that's what we're chatting about today. Our interview starts at 15 minutes.  Michelle recommends You're Dead to Me  A history podcast for people who don’t like history (and those who do) hosted by the mind behind Horrible Histories. Caitlin recommends Kitty Flanagan's 488 Rules for Life (audiobook version) This is a joy to listen to and perfect to improve your lockdown mood. Listen to the audiobook to enjoy a little extra content. The audiobook is free on the ABC Listen app at the time of recording In this interview, we chat about:  How Sonia was inspired to write The Image of Her and why she believes the idea finds her, regardless of genre What makes a suspense novel or genre fiction? Why Sonia felt the need to change her career after working as a lawyer internationally and how her London borough inspired her first novel The desire to have someone externally ‘approve’ of the decision to write and how this affected Sonia’s writing process Why Sonia decided to pursue publication and how she got her book deal

Books and other things mentioned The Weekly with Charlie Pickering Homeschool History (podcast)

Follow Sonia on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/soniavelton/?hl=en (@Soniavelton) Follow us on Instagram https://ww.instagram.com/betterwordspod (@betterwordspod) The Image of Her is available now.  Thank you to the team at Quercus Books UK for sending us copies of The Image of Her in preparation for the interview.

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Samera Kamaleddine is a Sydney-based journalist who spent the early part of her career writing about boys, annoying parents and friendship dramas in the teen magazines we grew up reading - Dolly and Girlfriend. She loves the beach and can be found there whenever she’s not writing (and sometimes when she is). Her debut novel for young adults, Half My Luck, has just been released after winning The Matilda Children's Literature Prize through Harper Collins. Our interview begins at 17 minutes.  Mini book club: Space Hopper by Helen Fisher A poignant and uplifting contemporary/time travel novel exploring motherhood, memories and the moments that shape us.  In this interview, we chat about: Why this was not the story Samera set out to write and how it evolved to reflect her own teen years Bringing southern Sydney to life in the novel and how it transported Samera back to high school Writing a (sometimes annoying) dramatic teen protagonist Why Samera switched character perspective throughout the novel How Samera feels about comparisons to the iconic Looking For Alibrandi The adorable story of how Samera won the inaugural Matilda Prize What it was like to work at Dolly and Girlfriend magazines as a young adult

Books and other things mentioned: The Time Traveller’s Wife by Audrey Niffenegger About Time (movie) Back to the Future (movie) Before the Coffee Gets Cold by Toshikazu Kawaguchi Detransition, Baby by Torrey Peters No Country Woman by Zoya Patel (https://better-words.simplecast.com/episodes/exploring-culture-and-religion-through-memoir-with-zoya-patel (listen to our chat with Zoya here)) Never Have I Ever (TV) Mean Girls (movie) The Bold Type (TV) Younger (TV)

Follow Samera https://www.instagram.com/samerak/?hl=en (@samerak). Half My Luck is available now. Follow us on Instagram https://ww.instagram.com/betterwordspod (@betterwordspod) Please note that Caitlin's job at HarperCollins Publishers did not affect our decision to invite Samera to be a guest, we're delighted to have her and hope you enjoy this episode. Michelle also read a PR copy.

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Bridie Jabour is the opinion editor of Guardian Australia. She has previously worked as a journalist for NewsCorp and Fairfax, where she has reported on social affairs, politics and regional issues. She has worked in the Canberra press gallery and was a reporter for Brisbane Times after starting her career at the Gold Coast Bulletin in Queensland. She writes commentary on feminism, inequality, and pop culture, and appears regularly on The Drum, Triple J and ABC Radio Sydney. She is the author of the novel The Way Things Should Be, but today we are discussing her new non-fiction collection of essays Trivial Grievances.  Our interview starts at 19 minutes.  Michelle recommends True Crime Story by Joseph Knox A transformation of the thriller genre which blends fiction with the style of true crime in a compulsively readable murder mystery.  Caitlin recommends This One Is Ours by Kate O'Donnell  A powerful, passionate and beautiful young adult novel to escape in.  In this interview, we chat about:  How Bridie’s friends and family helped her celebrate the book launch despite it coinciding with the start of Sydney’s latest lockdown The summer holiday ‘filler’ opinion piece that went viral and led to Bridie writing Trivial Grievances How Bridie’s career as a journalist influenced her writing style and the essay/memoir style of the book Did the premise of millennial malaise stand up in the writing of the book? The terrifying car crash Bridie and her family were involved in just after she finished writing the book and what it taught her about living How Bridie became a journalist and how that influenced her publishing journey, including some of the things that surprised her about the industry compared to life in the newsroom A brilliant tip for finding an agent for your work

Books and other things mentioned I’ll Be Gone in the Dark by Michelle McNamara The Final Revival of Opal and Nev by Dawnie Walton Dirty John (TV series) Red Dragon Jane the Virgin The Panic Years by Nell Frizzell

Follow Bridie on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/bkjabour/ (@bkjabour) Follow us on Instagram https://ww.instagram.com/betterwordspod (@betterwordspod) Trivial Grievances is available now.  Please note that Caitlin's job at HarperCollins Publishers did not affect our decision to invite Bridie to be a guest, we're delighted to have her and hope you enjoy this episode. Michelle also read a PR copy

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Rhiannon Wilde has been telling stories for as long as she can remember - inside her head but also as a journalist and high school English teacher in Brisbane. Her short story inspired by urban Brisbane, You Deserve Nothing, was longlisted for the Queensland Young Writer’s Award in 2014. But in this episode, we will be discussing her debut young adult novel, Henry Hamlet’s Heart. This beautiful story won the Queensland Literary Awards Glendower Award for an Emerging Queensland Writer in 2019 and has just been published.  Our interview begins at 10 minutes.  Mini book club: This Poison Heart by Kalynn Bayron We enjoyed this fascinating contemporary fantasy novel about a girl with the power to control the natural world, and survive the deadliest poisons. This Poison Heart weaves Greek mythology with a compelling and exciting magical story that kept us hooked from start to finish.  https://betterwordspodcast.com/episodes/fairytale-retellings-and-creating-new-narratives-with-kalynn-bayron (You can listen to our chat with Kalynn in season 5. ) *Note: We received review copies of this book from Bloomsbury Publishing.  In this interview, we chat about: Where the character of Henry Hamlet came from and how he became an insistent voice as Rhiannon wrote The fraught magic of your senior year of high school and why it makes for amazing YA novels Why Rhiannon chose to set the book in 2008 and why, for her, that is peak 2000s era The magic of Brisbane and why it made the perfect setting How Rhiannon got inside the mind of her teenage protagonist The all-boys school setting and why it feels like a space we’re rarely given access to in media How Rhiannon’s experience as a teacher influenced her writing The response from real teen readers Why The Great Gatsby is a thread running through the novel and queer coding of texts

Books and other things mentioned: Laurinda by Alice Pung Easy A Folklore and Evermore

Follow Rhiannon https://www.instagram.com/rhiannon_wilde/?hl=en (@Rhiannon_Wilde). Henry Hamlet's Heart is available now.  Follow us on Instagram https://ww.instagram.com/betterwordspod (@betterwordspod) *Note: We both received PR copies of Henry Hamlet's Heart from UQP Books.

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Jane Thynne was born in Venezuela and moved around the world with her parents and two brothers before settling in London. She is a journalist and writer who has published several historical fiction novels. Today, though, we are discussing her chilling new alternative history Widowland.  Our interview starts at 19 minutes.  Michelle recommends The Miseducation of Evie Epworth by Matson Taylor An uplifting and joyful novel about a young woman in the 1960s finding her place in the world Caitlin recommends Acknowledgements by Becky Lucas A brilliantly funny collection of essays from an Australian comedian thanking the people who have had big (and small) impacts on her life. *Note: Caitlin read a review copy of this novel through her position at Harper Collins Australia. Her job did not affect her decision to recommend this book. In this interview, we chat about:  The elements of Nazi Germany that inspired Widowland and the real-life women referenced in the novel Why Jane chose not to explicitly name Hitler in the novel The fascination of imagining how we would react living in an oppressive tyrannical regimen How one dinner party was the catalyst for Jane to write Widowland How Jane became fascinated by the 1930s and 40s and how it has influenced her writing career Fear and how it can be used to control a population (an technique used in the world of Widowland) Why Jane wanted to write this novel under a pseudonym, after publishing her historical fiction series

Books and other things mentioned Love Island UK Wentworth Glow Up Interior Design Masters Brooklyn 99 Girl Logic by Iliza Shlesinger No Shame by Tom Allen What is Yorkshire Day? https://www.examinerlive.co.uk/news/local-news/what-yorkshire-day-history-celebrate-21196394 (Read about it here!) Heartbeat Day of the Jackal (movie)

Follow Jane on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/authorjanethynne/?hl=en (@authorjanethynne). Follow us on Instagram https://ww.instagram.com/betterwordspod (@betterwordspod) Widowland is available now.  Michelle and Caitlin received PR copies of Widowland from Quercus UK.

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Welcome to Better Words. We're so glad you're joining us!

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Beth O'Leary is one of the biggest names in contemporary fiction at the moment. Her debut novel, The Flatshare, has sold over half a million copies and her second novel, The Switch has been optioned for film by Steven Spielberg’s production company. Today we’re thrilled to be discussing her brand new novel, The Road Trip. Our interview starts at 21 minutes.  Michelle recommends It's a Sin Beautiful and compelling, make sure you've got tissues at the ready.  Caitlin recommends Zero Chill A fun and enjoyable teen dramedy to sit back and enjoy. In this interview, we chat about:  The concept for Beth’s new romantic comedy The Road Trip and how the story has been brewing for years How Beth wrote The Road Trip’s dual timeline and alternating perspectives The music that helped inspire The Road Trip and how Beth used the playlist to notch up tension in the novel How Beth gets to ‘know’ her characters and whether she would ever re-visit characters from previous novels The path to publication and how Beth has dealt with the success of The Flatshare The transition from writing as a hobby to being a published author How it feels to have your book optioned for a movie with an iconic production company Preparing for motherhood and how it may change her writing routines

Books and other things mentioned The Guernsey Literary and Potato Peel Pie Society (film) Brooklyn (film)

Follow Beth on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/betholearyauthor/ (@betholearyauthor) Follow us on Instagram https://ww.instagram.com/betterwordspod (@betterwordspod) Madam will be available in the UK and Australia tomorrow (April 29)! Michelle and Caitlin received PR copies of The Road Trip from Quercus UK and Hachette Australia.

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Claire Zorn is a multi-award-winning author of young adult literature. Her resume of awards is incredibly impressive including the Children’s Book Council of Australia awards, the Inky Awards, the Prime Minister’s Literary Awards, and multiple state Premier’s awards. Today we are discussing her new novel When We Are Invisible, a sequel to her stunning post-apocalyptic debut The Sky So Heavy.  Our interview starts at 16 minutes.  Caitlin recommends: Fisk (TV show) An enjoyable  and witty new ABC sitcom by comedian Kitty Flanagan. Perfect for fans of Utopia or Rosehaven.  Michelle recommends: The Syndicate (TV show) An underrated television drama about what happens to a group of co-workers when they win a life-changing amount of money in the lottery.  In this interview, we talk about: Why Claire wanted to return to the world of her debut novel The Sky So Heavy in When We Are Invisible and why she switched perspective to Lucy for the second novel Exploring patriarchal notions of power and society in a post-apocalyptic setting Why anger at the patriarchy is a compelling force for Claire when writing How Claire researched a nuclear winter and apocalyptic world Expectation and success and the impact on the creative process The success of The Sky So Heavy (especially with teenage boys who still write to Claire about the book)

Books and other things mentioned: Good Girls (TV show) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZZSYDhx0FI (Nameless, Faceless by Courtney Barnett) (song) Thursday Murder Club by Richard Oseman Kate Atkinson books Tana French’s Dublin Murder Squad series

Follow Claire on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/claire_zorn/ (@claire_zorn) Follow us on Instagram https://ww.instagram.com/betterwordspod (@betterwordspod) When We Are Invisible is available now in Australia. We both received copies of When We Are Invisible for from University of Queensland Press.

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Phoebe Wynne worked as a teacher for eight years, teaching Classics in the UK and English Language and Literature in Paris. She left teaching to write and we’re delighted today to be talking about her first novel Madam, which has been described as gothic fiction with a feminist twist perfect for fans of Madeline Miller and Margaret Atwood.  Our interview begins at 26 minutes.  Mini book club: Expectation by Anna Hope We found this a really fascinating book about friendship and relationships and what we hope our lives will be. It's one of those books where you'll bring very different feelings based on personal experiences. We're both interested to see how our feelings towards this change in five or more years.  In this interview, we chat about: The literary inspirations Phoebe drew on for Madam, especially Daphne Du Maurier and classic Greek Tragedies Why Phoebe chose to set the novel in the early 1990s and the implications this had on the novel (we take a diversion here into third wave/fourth wave feminism here - we checked after recording and we’re in the ‘fourth wave’ of feminism currently) A long and winding chat about the value of women, feminism and the patriarchy Phoebe’s work as a teacher and her journey to publication The Australian inspiration for Phoebe’s gothic writing style (and a diversion into https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Australian_New_Wave (Australian New Wave Cinema) and My Brilliant Career) The fragile nature of schooling and the influence of good teachers on your life The study of Classics and why Phoebe wanted to make it a central part of Madam

Books and other things mentioned Adults by Emma Jane Unsworth Olive by Emma Gannon Grown Ups by Marian Keyes Queenie by Candice Carty-Williams Rebecca by Daphne Du Maurier My Cousin Rachel by Daphne Du Maurier The Science of Storytelling by Will Storr Thelma and Louise (movie) Batman Returns (movie) Alien (movie) Silence of the Lambs (movie) Women and Power by Mary Beard Picnic at Hanging Rock By Joan Lindsay (and the  1975 film directed by Peter Weir) The Gaps by Leanne Hall My Brilliant Career by  Miles Franklin Mad Women in the Attic by Sandra Gilbert and Susan Gubar The Book Thief by Marcus Zusak Asterix comics

Follow Phoebe on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/phoebewynnewrites/ (@phoebewynnewrites) Follow us on Instagram https://ww.instagram.com/betterwordspod (@betterwordspod) Madam will be available in the UK and Australia from May 13.  Michelle and Caitlin received PR copies of Madam from Quercus UK.

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Dawnie Walton was born and raised in Florida, but now lives in Brooklyn New York with her husband. She earned an MFA from the Iowa Writers’ Workshop in 2018 and has a journalism degree. She was formerly an editor at Essence and Entertainment Weekly. Her debut novel, The Final Revival of Opal and Nev has been described as a “firecracker” and an “utterly fresh take on finding one’s voice, on systemic racism and sexism, on freedom of expression”.  Our interview starts at 16 minutes.  Michelle recommends: The Lucky Escape by Laura Jane Williams Caitlin recommends: Last Night by Mhairi McFarlane Both are heartwarming and uplifting romances by two of our favourite contemporary writers.  We both received PR copies from Harper Collins for review.  In this interview, we talk about: The oral history-style of narrative of The Final Revival of Opal and Nev and how this helps bring every character to life How a music documentary, 20 Feet From Stardom, sparked the idea for the novel How Dawnie tapped into her love of music and the emotions of her favourite pieces to write music-related parts of the book The real-life musical inspirations for the characters of Opal and Nev The intersection of music, the music industry and racism Dawnie’s career in journalism and how this influenced her writing style The path to publication and Dawnie’s overwhelm at the incredibly good feedback ahead of her debut book’s publication Hearing the story come to life through a full-cast audiobook (this comes after we officially end the interview, so listen right until the end)

Books and other things mentioned: The Circle (UK) 20 Feet from Stardom (documentary)

Follow Dawnie on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/dawniewalton/ (@dawniewalton) Follow us on Instagram https://ww.instagram.com/betterwordspod (@betterwordspod) The Final Revival of Opal and Nev is available in paperback now in Australia, and hardback in June.  In the UK, the eBook is available now and the hardback will be published on April 20. The audiobook is available now.  We both received copies of The Final Revival of Opal and Nev for review from Quercus UK.

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Rebecca Lim is a writer, illustrator, editor and lawyer. She is the author of over twenty books and has been nominated for multiple awards. She is  a co-founder of the Voices from the Intersection initiative to support emerging young adult and children's authors and illustrators who are First Nations, People of Colour, LGBTIQA+ or living with disability, and is a co-editor of Meet Me at the Intersection, a groundbreaking anthology of YA #OwnVoice memoir, poetry and fiction. Today, we are discussing her latest novel for younger readers, Tiger Daughter.  Our interview begins at 26 minutes. Mini book club: The Burning by Laura Bates We both loved this novel, but it left us feeling so angry at the state of the world and the work we still have to do in dismantling rape culture. It weaves a historical tale of witch-burning with a compelling contemporary story about a young woman at the centre of a revenge porn attack that disrupts her entire life.  Michelle mentions the Everyone's Invited initiative, which has gained widespread media attention in the UK this week. It is a space for school students to report instances of harassment and abuse in UK schools, with over 11,000 reports submitted at the time of posting. https://www.everyonesinvited.uk/ (Read testimonies of survivors here.)  In this interview, we chat about: How her daughter’s English reading list sparked Rebecca’s desire to write Tiger Daughter Exploring the migrant experience of learning the English language and a young friendship in the novel Why Tiger Daughter is one of Rebecca’s most personal novels and why she wanted to explore certain cultural parenting styles Multi-layered storytelling in children’s fiction and why Rebecca believes it’s never too early to talk about painful subjects with readers How Rebecca’s skills as a lawyer have translated to her writing career The Voices from the Intersection initiative and the Meet Me at the Intersection collection 

Books and other things mentioned The Men Who Hate Women by Laura Bates Asking For It by Louise O’Neill You’re Wrong About (podcast)

Follow Rebecca on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/rebeccalim_writer/?hl=en (@rebeccalim_writer) Follow us on Instagram https://ww.instagram.com/betterwordspod (@betterwordspod) Tiger Daughter is available now in Australia. It will be available in the UK in June. Michelle and Caitlin received PR copies of Tiger Daughter from Allen & Unwin.

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Leanne Hall is an author of and specialist in young adult and children’s fiction. Her debut novel, This Is Shyness, won the Text Prize and was followed by a sequel, Queen of the Night. Her novel for younger readers, Iris and the Tiger, won the Patricia Wrightson Prize for Children’s Literature at the 2017 NSW Premier’s Literary Awards. This week we're diving into her beautiful and haunting YA novel, The Gaps.  Just a note a warning before listening:  This episode deals with discussions of violent crime against women. It was recorded in late February 2021, before Sarah Everard's abduction and murder in London. Some of the discussions may be triggering and if you'd like to skip straight to the writing chat, skip ahead to 49 minutes.  Our interview starts at 25 minutes.  https://heymamaearth.com/features/live-in-the-seasons (Read Michelle's article on how seasonally living changed her perceptions of living in the moment).  Caitlin recommends: Moxie (movie) A fun movie about teen girls smashing the patriarch brought to us by Amy Poehler. Caitlin hasn't read the YA book of the same name, but we've both heard brilliant things about it.  Michelle recommends:  The Trespasser by Tana French Character-driven and atmospheric crime fiction  filling the Line of Duty-shaped hole in Michelle's heart. In this interview, we talk about: The ‘odd-couple' friendship at the heart of The Gaps The haunting crime at the centre of the novel and Leanne’s own experience as a teenager on the periphery of a major crime Re-visiting teenage trauma when writing The way girls and women are, from a young age, taught to protect themselves from violence Why Leanne wanted to explore the ‘perfect victim’ myth and the dangers of that narrative in the media Leanne’s view on the ethics around true crime as a media genre and the boundaries she gave herself when writing (with a tangent about the brilliance of Veronica Mars) Why Leanne wanted to explore race, culture, and class issues in the novel and how writing and fictionalising the story was therapeutic How Leanne wrote The Gaps in tandem with her previous middle grade novel Iris and The Tiger Leanne’s genre-bending style and how she departed from that in The Gaps The success of Leanne’s debut novel, This Is Shyness and the pressure of writing knowing people are expecting it

Books and other things mentioned: 10 Things I Hate About You Angus, Thongs and Perfect Snogging Sundays Pop and Culture  panel from Louise McSharry (the episode Michelle referenced is https://open.spotify.com/episode/2xIF5IVfYM2UzU7W53LdxM?si=CZfowiEhTFWSLrxfqGekYw (this one)) Line of Duty  Veronica Mars

Follow Leanne on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/lilymandarin/ (@lilymandarin) Follow us on Instagram https://ww.instagram.com/betterwordspod (@betterwordspod) The Gaps is out now in Australia.  We both received copies of The Gaps for review from Text Publishing.

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Laura Kay is a writer and editor. She has an MA in American History from the University of Sheffield, and now lives in London with her wife and cat. In 2018, Laura was selected as one of the 10 PRH WriteNow mentees. She is based in London and The Split is her first novel. Our interview starts at 20 minutes. Mini book club: The Boy from the Mish by Gary Lonesborough We both adored this funny and heartwarming queer Indigenous YA novel, set in a rural Australian community, about seventeen-year-old Jackson finding the courage to explore who he is, even if it scares him. In this interview, we chat about: Laura’s debut novel The Split and why she felt it was important to explore a nuanced relationship breakdown Why Laura wanted to write about a close friendship between a queer woman and a queer man as the central relationship of the novel The character of Ally’s dad and why Laura wanted to explore the relationship between a grown-up daughter and her father, especially when they’re thrown into living together again unexpectedly The Sheffield setting of The Split (and no, Michelle did NOT plan to have so many midlands authors on the podcast) Laura’s experience as a ‘reluctant runner’ and how this was incorporated into the book The road to publication and how a Penguin mentoring program helped Laura get her publishing deal How it’s felt publishing in a pandemic and what Laura will be doing to mark the official hardback release date

Books and other things mentioned Memorial by Brian Washington Last Night at the Telegraph Club by Malinda Lo In at the Deep End by Kate Davies Detransition, Baby by Torrey Peters The Secret Life of Albert Entwistle by Matt Cain

Follow Laura on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/lauraekay/?hl=en (@lauraekay) Follow us on Instagram https://ww.instagram.com/betterwordspod (@betterwordspod) The Split is out 18 March in the UK and 30 March in Australia. Michelle received a PR copy of The Split from Quercus.

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Sophie Gonzales is a young adult author who lives in Melbourne. When she isn’t writing, she can be found ice skating, performing in musical theatre, and practising the piano. Today we’re talking about her brand new contemporary novel, Perfect on Paper. Our interview starts at 11 minutes.  Michelle recommends:  No Shame by Tom Allen “A brilliant comedic memoir. Anyone who has felt socially awkward or out of place will find this very touching” Caitlin recommends: Wandavision “If you haven’t watched it and you like superheroes and TV, give it a crack.” In this interview, we talk about: The dating advice that forms part of the Perfect on Paper plot (and Sophie’s own interest in relationships/dating advice as a teenager) Biphobia and why Sophie wanted to explore this through Darcy’s character and dating journey Why Sophie decided to pursue publication in the US first and why her novels have not been set in Australia including diversions on https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FUWCCIxtgJo (The Nutbush Dance) (that every Aussie just knows),  Sophie’s research trip to the US and Aussie slang Sophie’s love for musicals and her queer re-imagining of Grease in Only Mostly Devastated The process of co-writing a novel, If This Gets Out, due out later this year including the weirdness of writing romantic scenes

Books and other things mentioned: Sex Education Loveless by Alice Oseman Brooklyn 99 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LbKIzP4bmFA (Line of Duty Season 6 (airing March 21))

Follow Abigail on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/sgonzalesauthor/?hl=en (@sgonzalesauthor) Follow us on Instagram https://ww.instagram.com/betterwordspod (@betterwordspod) Perfect on Paper is out NOW in Australia, the UK and the US.  We both received copies of Perfect on Paper for review from Hachette.

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Kimberly Brubaker Bradley was the sort of kid who would skip lunch breaks to read and talk with the school librarian. She studied chemistry and worked as a research chemist after school, writing at night and on the weekends. Eventually, she realised that writing was her true passion and got her first publishing contract while pregnant with her second child. She now lives on a farm in Tennessee with an assortment of animals and is celebrating the publication of her 18th novel, Fighting Words.  Just a note a warning before listening:  This episode deals with discussions of child sexual abuse and may be triggering for some listeners. If you need support: In the UK, you can https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/family/children-and-young-people/child-abuse/getting-help/organisations-that-can-help/child-abuse-organisations-for-parents/ (find support here). In Australia, you can https://www.healthdirect.gov.au/child-abuse#:~:text=If%20you%20are%20a%20child,.org.au%2FHelpline. (find help here).  Interview starts at 21 minutes. Mini-book club: Every Lie I've Ever Told by Rosie Waterland This memoir is a moving and beautiful exploration of friendship and grief. We are both in awe of Rosie's ability to make us laugh and cry in the space of a few paragraphs.  Please note that Caitlin's job at HarperCollins Publishers did not affect our opinion of this book.  In this interview, we chat about: Why Fighting Words is the book Kimberley feels she was called to write (and why it was also the most challenging of all her work) How the #metoo movement spurred Kimberley to write the first sentences of the project which became Fighting Words How Kimberley fine-tuned the difficult subject matter to make the novel appropriate for ages 10 and up Why Kimberley believes children’s novels have to sometimes explore this darker subject matter The reaction of readers and teachers to the novel The research process for her previous historical novels, set in WW2 Britain (The War That Saved My Life and The War I Finally Won) The changes Kimberley has seen in the publishing industry (the need for diverse books) and how she’s grown as a writer

Books and other things mentioned: The Anti-Cool Girl by Rosie Waterland How to Steal a Dog by Barbara O'Connor Margot and Me by Juno Dawson Author: Angie Thomas Author: Carole Boston Weatherford Author: Nikki Grimes Author: Elizabeth Acevedo  The Enigma Game and Code Name Verity by Elizabeth Wein The Skylark’s War by Hilary McKay

Get in touch with Kimberly https://kimberlybrubakerbradleycom.wordpress.com/ (at her website).  Follow us on Instagram https://ww.instagram.com/betterwordspod (@betterwordspod) *Note: We received PR copies of Fighting Words from Text Publishing.

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Abigail Mann is a Norfolk native living in London, surviving on a diet of three-shot coffee, bourbon biscuits and vegetarian sausage rolls. The manuscript which became her debut novel was runner-up in the inaugural Comedy Women in Print award in 2019. Thanks to the pandemic she has just celebrated the paperback publication of her debut, the Lonely Fajita, and will soon celebrate the publication of her second novel Sister Surprise.  We usually try to avoid talking about the Panny D (British for this whole pandemic nightmare), but in Abigail’s case it’s an essential part of the conversation and the reason why we’re discussing two novels today instead of just focusing on her latest release Interview starts at 20 minutes if you want to skip our chat. P.S Our beautiful new artwork is the genius of Rhi. You can https://www.instagram.com/rhi.creative/ (follow her on Instagram here) for some eye-catching graphics and cute quotes in your feed. Caitlin recommends It’s Been a Pleasure, Noni Blake by Claire Christian “This book really deserves all the love it’s been getting. It actually felt really hopeful and inspiring, not just funny and joyful” Michelle recommends Line of Duty (TV series) “It is just mind-blowingly good. It’s my whole life now and I can’t stop thinking about it. It is, from a storytelling perspective, some of the best TV I’ve ever seen.” In this interview, we chat about: The real-life inspiration for Abigail’s debut novel, The Lonely Fajita, which is based on a scheme where young people move in as housemates with pensioners. Plus, how her time in Sheffield influenced the charming character of Annie. The isolation of living in a huge city, especially for elderly residents. Some spicy stories from Abigail’s own strange London internships (which inspired parts of The Lonely Fajita) The Sister Surprise and some of the fun research Abigail did for the novel in Scotland (just before the pandemic) Late-twenties panics and the way this time makes us reflect on our family histories and where we’ve come from The home DNA/Ancestry boom and how that inspired the storyline of Sister Surprise How a comedy writing competition forced Abigail to write The Lonely Fajita after feeling uninspired for many years following creative writing studies at university Abigail’s tips for great comedic writing

Books and other things mentioned The Switch by Beth O’Leary Just the Gist podcast (Elizabeth Holmes episode) Wolf of Wall Street Uncanny Valley by Anna Wiener This is Going to Hurt by Adam Kay The Panic Years by Nell Frizzell

Follow Abigail on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/abigailemann/?hl=en (@abigailemann) Follow us on Instagram https://ww.instagram.com/betterwordspod (@betterwordspod) UK listeners: The Lonely Fajita is out NOW in paperback, eBook and audio.  Sister Surprise will be available as an eBook from March 25. It will be available in paperback in June. Aus listeners: The Lonely Fajita will be available in paperback in Australia from April 6.  Sister Surprise will be available as an eBook from March 25. Please note that Caitlin's job at HarperCollins Publishers did not affect our decision to invite Abigail to be a guest, we're delighted to have her and hope you enjoy this episode. We both received copies of The Lonely Fajita and Sister Surprise for review.

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We’re sharing our favourite films, books, TV and audio of the year. Because we all know the 2020 has given us PLENTY of time to consume new content. Thanks for joining us this year and for supporting us. We can’t wait to be back in your ear holes in 2021 for Season 6. Adult fiction Caitlin: Sorrow and Bliss by Meg Mason (https://www.betterwordspodcast.com/episodes/the-sorrow-and-bliss-of-writing-life-with-meg-mason (listen to the interview)) The Lost Love Song by Minnie Darke All Our Shimmering Skies by Trent Dalton

Michelle: The Cows by Dawn O’Porter (and her second novel So Lucky) The Thursday Murder Club by Richard Osman The Midnight Library by Matt Haig

Movies Caitlin: Palm Springs Enola Holmes Miss Americana

Michelle: Eurovision: The Story of Fire Saga Spenser Confidential Ready Player One

TV Caitlin: Zoey’s Extraordinary Playlist Julie and the Phantoms Why Women Kill

Michelle: Grantchester Sex Education Inside No 9

Audio Caitlin: Taylor Swift: Folklore/Evermore Office Ladies Rom Com Pods

Michelle: Just the Gist podcast Oh My God, What a Complete Aisling audiobook by Emer McLysaght and Sarah Breen Evil Genius podcast

Young Adult Caitlin: On the Come Up by Angie Thomas Red, White and Royal Blue by Casey McQuiston How it All Blew Up by Arvin Ahmadi (https://www.betterwordspodcast.com/episodes/celebrating-your-truth-and-pimping-pain-with-arvin-ahmadi (listen to the interview))

Michelle: Loveless by Alice Oseman (https://www.betterwordspodcast.com/episodes/asexual-pride-and-publishing-as-a-teenager-with-alice-oseman (listen to the interview)) The Enigma Game by Elizabeth Wein Margot and Me by Juno Dawson

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Arvin Ahmadi grew up outside Washington DC, graduated from Columbia University, and worked in the tech industry prior to becoming a full-time writer. He now lives in New York City and has published three books. He’s joining us today to talk about his latest novel, How It All Blew Up.  Interview starts at 18 minutes. Note: right near the end Arvin's Airpods died so he drops out and jumps back in again.  Caitlin recommends Dash and Lily (based on Dash and Lily's Book of Dares by David Levithan and Rachel Cohn) Michelle recommends Is This Coercive Control?  If you haven't already listened to our chat with Louise O'Neill, we recommend listening to that as well since After the Silence focuses heavily on coercive control relationships. Find out more about why coercive control isn't criminalised in Australia. Articles from The Conversation: https://theconversation.com/its-time-coercive-control-was-made-illegal-in-australia-114817 (It’s time ‘coercive control’ was made illegal in Australia) and https://theconversation.com/australia-is-not-ready-to-criminalise-coercive-control-heres-why-146929 (Australia is not ready to criminalise coercive control — here’s why) In this interview, we chat about: The real-life inspiration for How It All Blew Up Why Arvin prefers the comfort blanket of writing fiction (and how fiction helped him get his shit figured out) The dilemma of wanting to explore painful issues but feeling as if you’re “pimping your pain” in doing so The importance of self-care while writing The process of writing and publishing How It All Blew Up (which was meant to be a totally different story) The real-life characters and what they think of the novel How Arvin feels about the feedback he’s had on the book so far and what people are celebrating most Pop culture as a shortcut to who we are Why we need more queer Muslim stories Arvin’s experience as a Wikipedia editor

Books and other things mentioned: Call Me By Your Name Master of None Season 2 The Henna Wars by Adiba Jaigirdar

Follow Arvin on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/arvinahmadi/?hl=en (@arvinahmadi) Follow us on Instagram https://ww.instagram.com/betterwordspod (@betterwordspod) We both received a copy of How It All Blew Up from Allen & Unwin.

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Stephanie Yeboah has been part of the fat acceptance and body positivity movement since 2014. She has since then written for multiple publications and her own blog about intersectionality in the body positivity movement, Beauty standards within the community and self-love. Today we are discussing her brilliant debut non-fiction memoir/self-help guide Fattily Ever After.  Interview starts at 30 minutes. Mini TV club: The Crown (Season 4) Spoiler alert: we will be discussing some key components of Season 4 of The Crown. You've been warned! (More than, you know, the fact it's based on real events). If you enjoyed Season 4 of The Crown, you NEED to listen to You're Wrong About and their recent 5-part deep dive into Princess Diana's life, marriage, death, and legacy.  In this interview, we talk about:  How Stephanie discovered the body positivity movement and the emotional effect it had on her life The history of the body positivity movement, how it has been taken into the mainstream and where we go from here The lasting legacy of the original body positivity movement How Stephanie copes with online trolling and keeps showing up for herself online The importance of normalising all types of bodies How Stephanie got her book deal (including how she found an agent on Twitter) How Stephanie accidentally delivered the whole manuscript months ahead of schedule (despite a broken ankle) The design and structure of Fattily Ever After (because it's GORGEOUS)

Books and other things mentioned: You’re Wrong About (podcast) Rake (Australian TV show - not the US version!) Bob Hawke (https://www.abc.net.au/news/2019-05-16/bob-hawke-seven-videos-that-capture-former-pm-in-full-flight/6563170 (7 videos that sum him up)) https://www.radiotimes.com/news/on-demand/2020-11-22/the-crown-michael-fagan-real-life/ (Michael Fagan episode of The Crown - what they get right and wrong) https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-54974425 (Black cabs in London during Covid) https://www.thecut.com/2020/11/the-crowns-prince-andrew-episode-hints-at-his-epstein-ties.html (Why Prince Andrew of The Crown is so shocking) The Queen (film) Maintenance Phase (podcast)

Follow Stephanie on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/stephanieyeboah/ (@stephanieyeboah).  Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/betterwordspod/?hl=en (@betterwordspod) *Note: Michelle received a PR copy of Fattily Ever After from Hardie Grant Egmont.

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Frances Chapman was born in Henley-On-Thames in England and she spent her childhood pinballed between continents before settling in Sydney. She worked as a journalist and social researcher for several years before she became a freelance writer in 2015. Her debut novel, Stars Like Us, was published by Hardie Grant Egmont in July 2020 after winning the Hardie Grant Egmont Ampersand Prize in 2018, and the Varuna-Black Inc Publisher Introduction Program in 2017.  Interview starts at 22 minutes. Caitlin recommends It Only Happens in the Movies by Holly Bourne.  Michelle recommends The Reckless Afterlife of Harriet Stoker by Lauren James Bonus: We discuss the amalgamation of our two music icons Sir Paul McCartney and Taylor Swift for the first Musicians on Musicians feature in Rolling Stone. https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/paul-mccartney-taylor-swift-musicians-on-musicians-1089058/ (Read the article here).   In this interview, we chat about How Justin Bieber eating fried chicken in Sydney inspired Stars Like Us (https://cdn.newsapi.com.au/image/v1/7170f5d43472f6c9fe4a3b46af4c2f72 (see the image here)) The paparazzi and the impact on celebrities and famous figures The fact we’ve all got the capability to snap a smartphone image of any celeb we see Is fame really an attractive prospect? Why Frances wanted to explore fame in the context of a young adult novel Having diverse music tastes (and being teased for it) The character inspired by Harry Styles How Frances wrote song lyrics for the book Winning the Ampersand Prize for Stars Like Us and the road to publication To sum up everything we’ve talked about, enjoy this https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eM_FR7I2Ttw (Harry Styles cover of The Chain)

Books and other things mentioned: Downton Abbey movie 10 Things I Hate About You Miss Americana (Taylor Swift documentary) Giving You Everything (Spice Girls documentary. Pssst, there’s actually ahttps://www.nme.com/news/music/channel-4-to-air-new-spice-girls-documentary-to-mark-25-years-of-wannabe-2706842 ( new documentary scheduled for 2021 to mark 25 years since Wannabe. )SAY WHAT?) The Beatles: The First U.S. Visit (documentary) The Eternal Sunshine of Harry Styles (Rolling Stone article. https://www.rollingstone.com/music/music-features/harry-styles-cover-interview-album-871568/ (Read it here)) High Fidelity (TV adaptation)

Follow Frances on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/franceschapmanwriter/ (@Franceschapmanwriter). Follow us on Instagram https://ww.instagram.com/betterwordspod (@betterwordspod) Caitlin received a copy of Stars Like Us from Hardie Grant Egmont.

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Alison Booth was born in Melbourne, brought up in Sydney and has worked in the UK and in Australia as a professor as well as a novelist. She holds a PhD in Economics from the London School of Economics and has written five novels, including The Philosopher’s Daughters which was published in April 2020. Interview starts at 20 minutes. Mini book club: Cow Girl by Kirsty Eyre We enjoyed reading this funny book about Billie, a biochemist who has to go back to her home town to run her family dairy farm when her Dad falls ill. Battling misogyny, homophobia and the economic turmoil of a dairy crisis, can Billie find a way to save the farm, save the cows and save herself? In this interview, we chat about: The inspiration for The Philosopher’s Daughters.  Why it’s so important to balance the present with the truth of history. Choosing how to accurately present history on the page.  How the research process differs for historical fiction depending on the time period. How do we define history and historical fiction? Why Alison had to retrain herself to include emotion in her writing after studying economics.

Books and other things mentioned: Up The Dusty Track by Norman Booth The Territory by Ernestine Hill Back In Time For Dinner AU on ABC TV

Follow Alison https://www.instagram.com/alisonboothauthor9723/?hl=en (@alisonboothauthor9723) and get your copy of The Philosopher’s Daughters at all good bookshops. Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/betterwordspod/?hl=en (@betterwordspod)

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Meg Rosoff spent 15 years working in advertising before writing her first novel. That book, How I Live Now, has since sold over one million copies in 36 territories, won prestigious awards and been adapted into a film. Her subsequent novels have been awarded or shortlisted for multiple awards including the Carnegie Medal. Although she was born in Boston, our guest now lives in London with her husband, daughter and dogs. Interview starts at 15 minutes. Caitlin recommends 2 brilliant fiction podcasts: Next Stop and Little Did I Know For fans of rom-coms and uplifting contemporary storytelling.  Michelle recommends Matt Haig's fiction. Beautiful magical realism exploring what it means to be human. Books mentioned: How to Stop Time, The Dead Fathers Club, The Radleys, The Midnight Library In this interview, we chat about The difficulty with trying to explain exactly what happens in The Great Godden (or any character-driven novel) Exploring conventional beauty, the commodity of beauty, and challenging commonly held beliefs Meg’s struggle writing The Great Godden and her decision to keep the narrator unidentified The act of discovery involved in writing a novel and trusting where the characters want to go Meg’s plans for another novel exploring a pivotal summer, set during a New York internship and featuring an intense friendship that goes wrong The arrival of the AIDS epidemic while Meg was living in New York in the 1980s How our society will change (and potentially flourish) after Covid The notion of adolescence and how it re-appears in our lives Why Meg believes self-doubt is “unbelievably important” to the creative process Meg’s experience of winning the second richest literary prize in the world: feeling unworthy, working harder to prove she was indeed worthy of the prize, and re-evaluating ‘success’ The person Meg regards as the best writer in the world Meg’s advice to her younger self (and us all)

Books and other things mentioned Downton Abbey You’re Wrong About Podcast - Princess Diana series Pride (film) This Podcast Will Kill You Podcast - Hit Me With Your Best (Polio) Shot Wolf Erlbruch The Sword in the Stone by TH White

Learn more and get in touch with Meg at her website  https://www.megrosoff.co.uk/ (megrosoff.co.uk). Follow us on Instagram https://ww.instagram.com/betterwordspod (@betterwordspod) Caitlin and Michelle both received copies of The Great Godden from Bloomsbury Publishing.

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Kalynn Bayron is an author and classically trained vocalist. She grew up in Alaska, which apparently means skiing and ice-skating in PE class. She studied opera in college, trained in ballet and can play the clarinet. As if all of that isn’t talent enough, she’s recently published her debut novel, Cinderella Is Dead. Interview starts at 20 minutes Mini book club: Read with Pride (Paper and Hearts Society Book 2) We enjoyed this YA novel about the importance of diverse and inclusive books (even if it did give us flashbacks to high school stress) In this interview, we chat about: The inspiration for Cinderella is Dead (ft Disney Princesses, an old book of fairytales, Once Upon a Time and Wicked) Why fairytales have endured for centuries Exploring violence in YA and choosing how to represent that on the page Using genre to explore contemporary issues and making the discussion more accessible for people who wouldn’t usually read issues-heavy contemporary novels Kalynn’s journey to a book deal and publication Knowing when to give up on a story idea and writing the story you’re truly passionate about, not just what you think people want Why reader reactions keep Kalynn grounded and some of the amazing responses to Cinderella is Dead The musicals Kalynn is obsessed with

Books and other things mentioned: https://www.nationalbooktokens.com/vote (Books Are My Bag Awards) Heartstopper by Alice Oseman

Follow Kalynn https://www.instagram.com/kalynnbayron/ (@kalynnbayron) and get your copy of Cinderella is Dead at all good bookshops.  Follow us on Instagram https://ww.instagram.com/betterwordspod (@betterwordspod) *Note: Michelle and Caitlin received PR copies of Cinderella is Dead from Bloomsbury Publishing.

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Our guest this week is an award winning writer, she has a PhD in Creative Writing and Literary Studies, her work has been published in Overland, Griffith Review, The Big Issue fiction edition and more. She has won the Josephine Ulrick Prize for Literature, the Margaret River Short Story Competition, the Neilma Sidney Short Story Prize and the Fair Australia Prize for Fiction. Her first book was a finalist in the Queensland Literary Awards and her second book, Ordinary Matter was published on September 1st. Ordinary Matter is a short story collection inspired by the first 20 times women won a Nobel prize in the sciences. (We're giving you an update on the 2020 winners before the interview) Interview starts at 18 minutes. Caitlin recommends Enola Holmes Henry Cavill superfan Jack has a correction: Henry  lives on Jersey, not Gurnsey Michelle recommends Because of You by Dawn French Michelle received a copy of the audiobook from Penguin Books UK In this interview, we chat about How Laura came up with the concept for Ordinary Matter, a short story collection inspired by the 20 times women have won Nobel Prizes in the sciences, and the process of developing an idea for each story The writing process for the collection (and how a grant application sparked it all) The history of women and the Nobel Prize, including the great increase in female winners in the 21st Century Laura’s experience in Stockholm during the week of the prize announcement A small digression to discuss The Radium Girls How Laura knows when to stop researching and start writing Laura’s experience completing a PhD and how it made her the writer she is today The experience of publishing in 2020

Books and other things mentioned Love of a Bad Man by Laura Elizabeth Woollett Only the Animals by Ceridwen Dovey The Radium Girls by Kate Moore The Greatest Showman Ellie Marney’s Every Series

Follow Laura on Twitter https://twitter.com/lauraelvery?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Eauthor (@LauraElvery) Follow us on Instagram https://ww.instagram.com/betterwordspod (@betterwordspod) Caitlin and Michelle both received copies of Ordinary Matter from UQP Books.

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Ireland is a land known for its literary exports and our guest this week is certainly adding to the country’s reputation for impeccable fiction. Louise O'Neill is from West Cork and has been described as a feminist powerhouse. Her first two novels, Only Ever Yours and Asking For It, were written for young adults but tackled very tough topics including sexual assault and consent. Her books have won multiple awards and been bestsellers on the Irish fiction charts. Her latest novel and her second adult fiction, After the Silence, was published on September 3 and, at the time of recording just a week later, was number 2 on the Irish bestseller charts.  Just a warning before listening: This episode deals with discussions of domestic violence, and may be triggering for some listenings. If you need support:  In the UK, contact the 24-hour National Domestic Abuse Helpline 0808 2000 247 In Australia, contact The National Sexual Assault, Family & Domestic Violence Counselling Line 1800 737 732 In Ireland, reach out to https://www.safeireland.ie/get-help/where-to-find-help/ (SafeIreland)

Interview starts at 16 minutes.  Mini-book club: The Switch by Beth O'Leary We loved this delightful and uplifting story about a woman and her grandmother switching lives.  In this interview, we chat about: What genre After the Silence falls into (and why it’s her favourite novel so far) Portraying emotional abuse, coercive control, and violent relationships in fiction and how Louise explored the shame associated with that The influence of the West Cork podcast on After the Silence The outsider perspective on an tiny Irish community How Louise nailed the Aussie slang in After the Silence Louise’s Granny Murphy, who the book is dedicated to and who passed away in 2019 The wildness of Ireland and how that translated to the novel The political and social history of Ireland and how that has changed since Louise was a child Louise’s decision to include Irish in After the Silence and her favourite Irish words (with a Fleabag reference)

Books & other things mentioned: Freaky Friday The Holiday West Cork (Audible podcast) Are You There God? It’s me, Ellen by Ellen Coyne (coming October 30, 2020)

Follow Louise https://www.instagram.com/oneilllou/?hl=en (@oneilllou). After the Silence is available now in the UK and Australia.  Follow us on Instagram https://ww.instagram.com/betterwordspod (@betterwordspod) *Note: Michelle received a PR copy of After the Silence from Riverrun Books.

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Meg Mason started her career at the Financial Times and The Times of London - definitely not too shabby! Since then, she’s been published in major Australian newspapers, The New Yorker, Sunday Style, GQ, Vogue, Elle and Marie Claire. She has written a memoir and a novel, but this week we are discussing her second novel, Sorrow and Bliss. Caitlin recommends Splitting Up Together A two-season US sitcom about a couple who find out getting divorced is the best thing they could ever do for their marriage.  Michelle recommends Louise Candlish (author of Our House, Those People, The Other Passenger). Great domestic psychological suspense novels. Perfect for fans of Big Little Lies.  In this interview, we chat about: The light and shade of Sorrow and Bliss, which is an anti-love story of sorts (and difficult to succinctly describe) The question “how much of this novel is autobiographical” Exploring mental illness in fiction (and not having a character defined by an illness) How it feels to be compared to Sally Rooney and Phoebe Waller-Bridge Why Meg scrapped the novel she spent 2018 writing and why Sorrow and Bliss was meant to be her “career suicide note” How Meg rediscovered the joy of writing (thanks to Trent Dalton) Meg’s experience of writing memoir and the transition to writing fiction How Meg looks back on writing her debut memoir and why she wishes she had approached it differently What we give away of our children’s lives on social media Decisions over whether to include trigger warnings on books The advice Meg would give to her younger self Meg’s decision to go off social media and consumption vs creation

Books and other things mentioned: All Our Shimmering Skies by Trent Dalton Nanette by Hannah Gadsby Notting Hill So You’ve Been Publicly Shamed by Jon Ronson More Than a Woman by Caitlin Moran

Meg isn't online, but Sorrow and Bliss is available now and you can find out more about Meg https://megmason.com/ (at her website).  Follow us on Instagram https://ww.instagram.com/betterwordspod (@betterwordspod) Please note that Caitlin's job at HarperCollins Publishers did not affect our decision to invite Meg to be a guest, we're delighted to have her and hope you enjoy this episode.

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Alice Oseman is a formidable young writer.  Alice's first book was published when she was just 19. Now at 25, our guest has already published four celebrated novels and written and illustrated a much loved graphic novel series. Alice's latest novel, Loveless, is a celebration of friendship and coming out as asexual and aromantic. Interview starts at 12 minutes. Mini-book club: Heartstopper by Alice Oseman Confession: We haven't read many graphic novels before! We love Heartstopper. It is the PERFECT queer love story. In this interview, we chat about: Why we need more books that explore post-high school experiences in YA The writing process for Loveless and why it was Alice’s most challenging novel yet The pressure of success and how it affects the writing process Alice’s experience on the aromantic and asexual spectrum and why she wanted to explore this in Loveless Why Alice’s novels focus on the importance of friendship (and why we need more books about friendship) A brief interlude about how Caitlin and Michelle met How Alice got published while she was still a teenager (and the advice she would give her younger self)

Books & other things mentioned Clap When You Land by Elizabeth Acevedo Lumberjanes by Shannon Watters, Grace Ellis, Brooklyn A. Allen and Noelle Stevenson Watchmen by Alan Moore, Dave Gibbons and John Higgins Pumpkin Heads  by Rainbow Rowell (illustrated by Faith Erin Hicks) Code Name Verity by Elizabeth Wein

Follow Alice on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/aliceoseman/?hl=en (@aliceoseman). Loveless is available now in Australia and the UK. Novella This Winter is published in paperback in the UK on October 15.  Follow us on Instagram https://ww.instagram.com/betterwordspod (@betterwordspod) Please note that Caitlin's job at HarperCollins Publishers did not affect our decision to invite Alice to be a guest, we're delighted to have her and hope you enjoy this episode.

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Nydia Hetherington grew up in Leeds in the north of England and moved to London in her twenties to start an acting career. She studied at a renowned French theatre school and went on to create her own theatre company. Her debut novel, A Girl Made of Air, was published in September. Interview starts at 12 minutes.  Caitlin recommends Love Struck by Bronwyn Sell Perfect for pretending you were allowed to travel to an exotic tropical location for summer this year.  Michelle recommends The Science of Storytelling by Will Storr (with an extra cheeky recommendation for Building a Story Brand by Donald Miller) Perfect for anyone who is fascinated about why we as humans love a good story.  In this interview, we chat about: Folklore and myths from Nydia’s childhood on the Isle of Man How Nydia developed the novel over 6 years through short pieces while studying creative writing The unusual storytelling format of A Girl Made of Air and how it became an obsession for Nydia How Nydia’s writing was influenced by her experience and life as a performer Pulling back the curtain on the world of circus The research Nydia did into the world of Freak Shows and Coney Island What Coney Island is like now Creating during UK lockdown and feeling distanced from any writing Shielding in the UK lockdown and living with anxiety

Books and other things mentioned The Tin Drum by Günter Grass Geek Love by Katherine Dunn Freaks by Tod Browning

Follow Nydia https://www.instagram.com/nydiamadeofair/ (@nydiamadeofair). A Girl Made of Air is available now in the UK and Australia.  Follow us on Instagram https://ww.instagram.com/betterwordspod (@betterwordspod) *Note: Michelle received a PR copy of A Girl Made of Air from Quercus Books.

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Kay Kerr is a former journalist and community newspaper editor from Brisbane. She now lives on the Sunshine Coast with her husband and daughter and works as a freelance writer. Her debut young adult novel, Please Don’t Hug Me, was inspired by her own autism-spectrum diagnosis.  The interview starts at 17 minutes. This week, we started the episode with a mini book club discussion of Olive by Emma Gannon. Overall: We loved this book and recommend to anyone who enjoys contemporary fiction and likes discussing female friendships. *Note: We both received PR copies of Olive for review.  In the interview, we chat about:  Sibling relationships in YA fiction (and life) Working as a journalist in regional Queensland, including the closure and downsizing of dozens of small publications in mid-2020 Kay’s own autism spectrum diagnosis and the experience of writing a neurodivergent character How Kay navigated the pitching process and sold Please Don’t Hug Me Why Kay decided to date the book with specific Queensland high school references The catharsis of writing about and reflecting on the emotion of writing about high school The unexpected benefits of launching a book in a pandemic A little bit about Kay’s next novel, Social Queue

Books and other things mentioned Peta Lyre’s Rating Normal by Anna Wheatley (https://betterwordspodcast.com/episodes/finding-your-own-voice-with-anna-whateley (listen to our chat with Anna here)) The Kiss Quotient by Helen Hoang

Follow Kay https://www.instagram.com/kaykerr_/ (@kaykerr_). Please Don't Hug Me is available now in Australia.  Follow us on Instagram https://ww.instagram.com/betterwordspod (@betterwordspod)

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Laura Jane Williams is an incredibly talented storyteller who has written columns for numerous magazines, published two non-fiction books and has just celebrated the release of her second fiction novel. Her debut fiction Our Stop was a smash hit in the UK summer in 2019 and The Love Square is set to be just as popular, having been described as “clever, hilarious and a total unbridled joy to read". We've refreshed the podcast format a tiny bit to include just one recommendation for each of us in the introduction. But if you want to skip straight to our interview, it starts at 13 minutes.  Caitlin recommends You Were Made for Me by Jenna Guillaume “If Frankenstein was a Young Adult rom-com” Michelle recommends The Thursday Murder Club by Richard Oseman “This is like tea and scones and jam and cream British comfort, but with a slight edge which I love” *Note: Michelle listened to the audiobook of this novel as part of the publicity tour for Penguin.  In this interview, we chat about: Why The Love Square is set in the Derbyshire countryside after Our Stop’s ‘love letter to London’ The influence of Thomas Hardy’s Far From the Maddening Crowd The human need for love and connection and the mistaken belief in romantic love ‘completing’ women The experience of writing the first draft of another novel during UK lockdown Making the transition from writing non-fiction Digital detoxes and reconsidering how much of ourselves we share online A tiny sneak peek at The Lucky Escape (coming 2021)

Books and other things mentioned: How to Fail by Elizabeth Day Untamed by Glennon Doyle https://open.spotify.com/episode/5Q2JfbLyWCTjokjVvGaL2P (Ctrl Alt Delete Podcast: #254 Holly Bourne on Writing Teen & Adult Novels) Olive by Emma Gannon How Do You Like Me Now? by Holly Bourne

Follow Laura on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/laurajaneauthor/?hl=en (@laurajaneauthor.)  The Love Square is available now in the UK and Australia.  Follow us on Instagram https://ww.instagram.com/betterwordspod (@betterwordspod) Please note that Caitlin's job at HarperCollins Publishers did not affect our decision to invite Laura to be a guest, we're delighted to have her and hope you enjoy this episode.

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We apologise for the audio quality of some parts of this episode. It was originally published in December 2018.  When we spoke to Zoya we discussed her memoir No Country Woman and the experience of writing the memoir.  In this episode, we discuss: How Zoya’s family responded to her writing a memoir about her cultural and religious experiences growing up in Australia (and why this has helped them connect as a family) The power of memoir as a genre to explore cultural issues The deeply individual experience of race and identity, even within a family and the multiplicity of representations in the media Finding clarity about growing up in Australia while living and writing overseas Economic inequality and how it works within structural racism Intersectionality of inequality and understanding why people make the choices they do The stories we tell ourselves about individual success The power of language and communicating confidently in English

Books & other things mentioned Yassmin Abdel-Magied The Hate Race by Maxine Beneba Clarke

https://www.zoya-patel.com/ (Find out more about Zoya here.)  Follow us on Instagram @betterwordspod.

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This interview with Michael Earp was originally broadcast in May 2019. When we spoke to Michael, he was getting ready to launch Kindred: a Queer #LoveOzYA short story collection. He was also one of the talented writers included in the Underdog short story collection (published in 2019).  https://www.michaelearp.net/ (Sign up to Michael's email) and you'll get a short story from him in your inbox! In this chat, we discuss: Writing a queer meet-cute short story for the Underdog Short Story Anthology (listen to our episode with Tobias Madden here) and the real-life bookish experience that inspired it Online friendships (aka millennial pen pals) Editing a short story anthology Diversifying and queering our reading experiences Specialising in selling children’s and young adult literature The judgement of adults reading young adult or children’s literature

Books & other things mentioned: Kindred: A Queer #LoveOzYA Collection Underdog Short Stories

Follow Michael: @littleelfman Follow us: @betterwordspod

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This interview with Jenna Guillaume was originally broadcast in March 2019. When we spoke to Jenna, she was celebrating the release of her debut novel. We want to re-visit this chat because her second standalone YA novel You Were Made For Me is on shelves now. In this chat, we discuss: Writing about body image, body positivity, and plus-sized romance Jenna's journey with body image Netflix series Insatiable insert eye-roll here Writing an Aussie Christmas take on the classic 'summer transformation' trope Dirty Dancing and why 10 Things I Hate About You is the BEST teen movie of all time Why entertainment/pop culture journalism is looked down upon or dismissed as frivolous Why we need to get rid of the term 'guilty pleasure' 

Books & other things mentioned Dumplin' by Julie Murphy Insatiable Dirty Dancing 10 Things I Hate About You Harry Potter and the Cursed Child Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them

Follow Jenna: @jennaguillaume Follow us: @betterwordspod

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This interview with Renée Watson was originally broadcast in June 2019 It seems fitting to re-release this chat with author, activist, and teacher Renée Watson in the wake of George Floyd's murder and Black Lives Matter protests across the world. We spoke to Renée while she was touring Australia  for the release of Watch Us Rise (which she co-wrote with Ellen Hagan).  In this chat, we discuss: How young people engage with politics and art The experience of co-writing a novel with a friend (and getting immediate feedback on writing) Poetry and getting young people invested in it as an art form Cancel culture: when to give people grace and when to cut them out The experience of representing diverse characters on book covers Making art as resistance to oppression

Books mentioned: Watch Us Rise by Renée Watson and Ellen Hagan What Momma Left Me by Renée Watson The Poet X by Elizabeth Acevedo Brown Girl Dreaming by Jacqueline Woodson One Last Word by Nikki Grimes Hold Your Own by Kate Tempest

Follow Renée: http://www.reneewatson.net/ (http://www.reneewatson.net/) Chat to us on Instagram: @betterwordspod

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We're (almost) back, baby! We're returning with Season 5 of Better Words in September. Until then, we're going to be re-publishing some episodes from the archive which we hope you'll enjoy.

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Phil Stamper is currently celebrating the publication of his debut novel The Gravity of Us! He grew up playing piano, writing and looking up at the stars in rural Ohio and now lives in New York City. We talked to him about the space program, reality tv and of course his new book. The Gravity of Us is a queer love story set against the backdrop of a modern space program. Before the interview, Caitlin and Michelle share a few uplifting and joyful recommendations. Interview starts at 14:30.

Check out the shownotes http://www.betterwordspodcast.com/?p=1428 (here).

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This wonderful episode is our season finale. We're taking a little break and we'll be back soon!

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Anna Whateley has a PhD in young adult fiction, first class honours in English Literature and Post-Grad Certificate in Education. We're delighted to talk to her today about her debut YA novel, Peta Lyre's Rating Normal. We chat about her journey to publication and how she's spent years trying to understand her own neurodiversity and exploring that through the novel. Ahead of that wonderful chat, Caitlin and Michelle talk about their recent reads (superheros and outer space are mentioned) and TV favourites. Interview starts at 13:38.

Check out the shownotes here.

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Emery Lord is the amazing young adult author of Open Road Summer, The Start of Me & You, The Names They Gave Us and When We Collided. She is currently celebrating the publication of her fifth novel, The Map From Here To There. We talked to Emery about her writing process, how she started writing, how her first novel was published and The Great British Bake Off! Before the interview, Michelle and Caitlin talk about snow, rainy weekends and our latest TV binges. Interview starts at 21:30.

Check out the shownotes http://www.betterwordspodcast.com/shownotes-writing-about-the-big-questions-with-emery-lord/ (here).

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In this episode we chat about writing, friendship, people watching, outdoor swimming and breakfast foods with Libby Page. Her debut novel The Lido has been sold into 20 territories and is one of Michelle's favourites. Her second novel, The 24 Hour Cafe was just released in Australia and the UK. Before the chat, Caitlin talks about both movies she saw on the weekend, Michelle's latest reality tv obsession and our current reads. Interview starts at 19:05.

Check out the shownotes http://www.betterwordspodcast.com/shownotes-a-love-letter-to-people-watchers-with-libby-page/ (here).

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Welcome to 2020! Vanessa McCausland has worked as a journalist for 17 years, is currently the weekend editor at kidspot.com.au and her novel The Lost Summers of Driftwood was just released! We talked to Vanessa about how she separates creative writing from work plus the themes and inspirations for her novel. To start, Michelle and Caitlin chat about what they were reading, watching and listening to over Christmas break. Interview starts at 12:10.

Check out the shownotes http://www.betterwordspodcast.com/?p=1405 (here).

Join our https://www.facebook.com/groups/betterwordspodcast/ (Facebook group) to continue the conversation. Follow us on Instagram https://ww.instagram.com/betterwordspod (@betterwordspod) and please subscribe and leave a rating or review.

Please note that Caitlin's job at HarperCollins Publishers did not affect our decision to invite Vanessa to be a guest, we're delighted to have her and hope you enjoy this episode.

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Today's guest is the wonderful Tara Eglington! Tara joins us to talk about her fourth novel, The Long Distance Playlist. We discuss the inspirations for the story and main characters, the role music plays in the novel and her creative process. You can listen to the offical The Long Distance Playlist playlist on https://open.spotify.com/playlist/6v1l2V9luisl799Y9J3cea (Spotify here). Before the interview, Michelle and Caitlin share their very own friendship playlist! Interview starts at 16:30.

Check out the shownotes http://www.betterwordspodcast.com/?p=1398 (here).

Join our https://www.facebook.com/groups/betterwordspodcast/ (Facebook group) to continue the conversation. Follow us on Instagram https://ww.instagram.com/betterwordspod (@betterwordspod) and please subscribe and leave a rating or review.

Please note that Caitlin's job at HarperCollins Publishers did not affect our decision to invite Tara to be a guest, we're delighted to have her and hope you enjoy this episode.

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This episode is our very first inside look into publishing! We chat to Bella Pearson from Guppy Books about her experience in the publishing, the amazing books she's worked on, some of the challenges in the industry and publishing children's books. Before that, Michelle and Caitlin are getting into the Christmas spirit with lots of recommendations! Interview starts at 16:00.

Check out the shownotes http://www.betterwordspodcast.com/?p=1388 (here).

Join our https://www.facebook.com/groups/betterwordspodcast/ (Facebook group) to continue the conversation. Follow us on Instagram https://ww.instagram.com/betterwordspod (@betterwordspod) and please subscribe and leave a rating or review.

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This week we're joined by freelancer Fiona Thomas to discuss how having a mental breakdown led to a new career as a writer and the publication of her first book, Depression in a Digital Age. She's currently writing a guide to freelancing due for release in 2020. In the intro, we're discussing Holly Bourne's How Do You Like Me Now, David Burton's Man in the Water and Iliza Shlesinger's UnVeiled. Interview with Fiona starts at 18:10.

Thanks to Trigger Publishing for providing a copy of the book in preparation for the interview.

Check out the shownotes http://www.betterwordspodcast.com/shownotes-the-highs-and-lows-of-online-life-with-fiona-thomas/ (here).

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Today's guest is a lawyer and an award winning, critically acclaimed writer. We are so excited to have Bri Lee on Better Words! We talked about Eggshell Skull, the newly released Beauty, other writing projects and her campaign to have the Queensland Law Reform Commission review consent and 'mistake of fact' laws (consentlawqld.com). To start, Michelle and Caitlin talk about tea and their recent reads. Interview starts at 13:30.

Check out the shownotes http://www.betterwordspodcast.com/shownotes-vulnerable-writing-with-bri-lee/ (here).

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It Sounded Better In My Head seems to have been the talk of the Australian bookstagram community for the past few months. Nina Kenwood has worked in the book industry for over a decade, including with Melbourne’s iconic Readings bookshop. After winning the 2018 Text Prize, her first novel was published in Australia in August (and will be out in the UK and US in early 2020). We talked to Nina about her writing and publishing journey, body positive characters and how much we love Aussie's summer Christmas.

To start, Michelle and Caitlin are talking about how the seasons are changing and sharing their new favourite podcast and tv obsessions. Interview starts at 21:45.

Check out the shownotes https://www.betterwordspodcast.com/shownotes-writing-the-stories-we-needed-with-nina-kenwood (here).

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Our first guest for season 4 has done just about everything. Julie Mayhew is an author, radio dramatist, playwright, screen writer, actress and journalist. We chat with Julie about her new book, Impossible Causes, what it's like to write across so many mediums and separating the world you create from the world you live in.

Before that, Michelle and Caitlin discuss what they've been watching, reading and listening to over the break. Interview starts at 20:40.

Check out the shownotes https://www.betterwordspodcast.com/shownotes-wielding-our-power-with-julie-mayhew (here).

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In this shorter episode Michelle and Caitlin are chatting about supporting independent book stores, the rise of the beach read, how intimidating literary fiction can seem, a lucky library sale purchase and what the heck Cats is actually about. Stay tuned to the end for a special announcement. Time to spill some tea!

Check out the shownotes http://www.betterwordspodcast.com/ (here).

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The Book Ninjas are back! We welcome Ali Berg and Michelle Kalus back to Better Words to discuss their second bookish rom-com, While You Were Reading. We explore the changes in writing a second book and the publication challenge of including real #bookstagram shots in the novel. In the introduction, we're talking about Yesterday, Parenthood, Luther, and the weird CATS trailer.

Interview starts at 20m

Check out the shownotes http://betterwordspodcast.com/ (here).

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Danielle Wood, Minnie Darke or Angelica Banks? Our guest goes by a few names but we just called her Danielle. You've probably seen Star Crossed on your Instagram and whether you follow astrology or not, it's a very fun read. We talked to Danielle about her inspiration for Star Crossed, her interest in astrology, writing and her experiences in journalism. In our intro, Michelle talks about her weekend trip to Liverpool and Caitlin discusses what she's been watching and reading. Interview starts at 16:20.

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Renee Watson is a New York Times best selling author and has published multiple middle grade and young adult novels. Her poetry and fiction explores the lived experiences of black girls and women, and the intersections of race, class, gender, and body image. We talk about her writing, activism, publishing experience and her latest novel, Watch Us Rise, co-authored with Ellen Hagan. Interview starts at 18:10.

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Our guest is very well travelled and is now based in Wollongong, New South Wales. Helena Fox is celebrating the publication of her debut, How It Feels To Float. We talked to her about grief being a unique and individual experience, mental health, characters, and writing. Before that we discuss the length and cancelling of various tv shows as well as what else we've been reading and watching.

Join our https://www.facebook.com/groups/betterwordspodcast/ (Facebook group) to continue the conversation. Follow us on Instagram https://ww.instagram.com/betterwordspod (@betterwordspod) and please subscribe and leave a rating or review.

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Michael is a editor, bookseller and writer who loves children's and young adult literature. While chatting to him, we spent the whole conversation gushing about books. Key topics include Kindred: 12 #LoveOzYA Stories, Underdog Short Stories and his experience in the bookish community. In our first internationally recorded introduction, Michelle tells us about her first few days in the UK and Caitlin talks about her latest aerial activities.

Join our https://www.facebook.com/groups/betterwordspodcast/ (Facebook group) to continue the conversation. Follow us on Instagram https://ww.instagram.com/betterwordspod (@betterwordspod) and please subscribe and leave a rating or review.

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We learned a lot in this episode and we hope you do too. Clare Wright is a historian and award winning author. She talked to us about the Australian's women suffragette movement and how women won the right to vote. We also chatted to Clare about her research, writing process and making history cool again. Before that, listen to Caitlin and Michelle's last in person (for them) introduction for a while, as Michelle gets ready to move to the UK. Join our Facebook group to continue the conversation. Follow us on Instagram @betterwordspod and please subscribe and leave a rating or review.

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How can we live as our most authentic selves? Sara Tasker is a writer, photographer, business coach, podcaster, Instagram guru and author. She joins us to talk all about the process of writing and putting together her book and living a creative life. Our chat goes off on many tangents, which proves how much we love to talk! Before the interview, hear about Caitlin's encounter with a friendly kangaroo and Michelle's new crime podcast https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/predator/id1459966557 (Predator).

Join our https://www.facebook.com/groups/betterwordspodcast/ (Facebook group) to continue the conversation. Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/betterwordspod (@betterwordspod) and please subscribe and leave a rating or review.

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It's our first LIVE episode! So, we've decided to keep it simple and just present to you our interview with the incredible Kate Forsyth at CapriCon Rockhampton 2019. We discuss how a childhood trauma shaped her passion for reading, the origins of fairytales and the magic of retellings, the productivity of writing for a living, and ideas and inspiration.

Join our https://www.facebook.com/groups/betterwordspodcast/ (Facebook group) to continue the conversation. Follow us on Instagram https://www.instagram.com/betterwordspod (@betterwordspod) and please subscribe and leave a rating or review.

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We're discussing office sitcoms, British TV dramas and astrology all before being joined by Tobias Madden. He is a man of many, many talents! We chat all about https://www.underdogshortstories.com/ (Underdog: #LoveOzYA Short Stories), the bookish community, musicals and changing careers.

Follow us on https://www.instagram.com/betterwordspod (Instagram) and please leave a rating or review. Thanks for listening!

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This week we're discussing Kinky Boots, Harry Potter movies, Underdog short stories, plus an exciting announcement. Our guest is https://www.karynsepulveda.com/ (Karyn Sepulveda), author of Letters to My Yesterday, chatting about uncovering the extraordinary stories of ordinary women, writing 'apprenticeships' and the classification of women's writing.

Follow us on https://www.instagram.com/betterwordspod/ (Instagram). Thanks to Ventura Books for providing a copy of Letters to My Yesterday for this episode.

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To celebrate the release of What I Like About Me, we welcome author and journalist Jenna Guillaume. We discuss her journey to publication, the wonderful character of Maisie, rom coms, Dirty Dancing, body positivity and more. Michelle and Caitlin also discuss the Oscars, catching up on movies and the Jonas Brothers.

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This week we're discussing binge-worthy crime dramas (The Cry and Dirty John), sitcoms (Derry Girls and New Girl), and our brand new Facebook group. Our guest is https://literaryminded.com.au/about/ (Angela Meyer), author of genre bending novel A Superior Spectre. We're talking about choosing to abandon the 'safe' writing path, why words are so important and the creative anxiety so many writers experience.

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This week we're talking about that New Yorker article, You, and Mary Queen of Scots. We're also thrilled to be joined by our friend Carly Findlay, whose memoir Say Hello is now on shelves. She's discussing the long editing process, the cover design, and what she wasn't expecting after publication.

If you enjoyed this episode, we recommend you also listen to Carly chatting to Zara and Michelle from Shameless. Find them in your podcast app.

For shownotes and more information about this podcast, head to our website.

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Welcome to our first interview of 2019. This week we're delighted to welcome Cristy Burne: science writer and educator, with a swag of children's adventure novels to her name. She's also the author of https://cristyburne.com/books/zeroes-and-ones-the-geeks-heroes-and-hackers-who-changed-history/ (Zeroes and Ones: The geeks, heroes and hackers who changed history). We're chatting about our fear of science, how we can help children become more literate in the universal language, and the inspiring forgotten women of science and engineering.

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Before we kick off the podcast properly in 2019, we're back to discuss what we read and watched over the Christmas/New Year break.

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Listen in as we discuss and gush all of our favourite things in 2018. From books, movies, TV shows and podcasts to other fabulous things that happened in between. We hope you have a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year!

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We've had a heatwave, fires, storms and a stand up show. That's just our intro! In this wonderful chat with Aussie writer Zoya Patel, we discuss feminism, equality, her migrant experience and fangirl over Mama and Papa Patel. If you've ever felt like you don't belong, this episode and book is for you.

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Jane Caro is an Australian writer and social commentator. We we're very excited to chat to her about her young adult trilogy about Queen Elizabeth I, discussing her research, writing and women in history. Listen also as we wrap up Crimes of Grindelwald!

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This week, author Karen Foxlee is talking to us about her writing process, creativity and the timing of ideas. Caitlin and Michelle are also discussing Bohemian Rhapsody and the brilliance of the new Queen bio-pic.

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You think your Harry Potter collection is big? Step aside, because Peter Kenneth's magical library of roughly 1300 Harry Potter editions will take your breath away. In this episode, we chat to Peter about all things Potter from falling in love with Hogwarts to becoming an expert on JK Rowling signatures and the best covers of the series. Grab your wand and join us for a spellbinding interview!

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Michelle Elman is an all-round fabulous woman. She's spoken at TEDx and has built a powerful social media following after the #scarrednotscared tag went viral. Her memoir Am I Ugly? is a moving journey through multiple surgeries and the way they've shaped her body confidence. Michelle explains how she learned to love her body and how you can too. Listen up pod squad, it's time to share the love.

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Queensland might be hot, but the gorgeous landscape makes up for it. Fiona Bell joins us to chat about her debut, Waterhole! We discuss writing, publishing, inspiration, English in high schools and what it's like to have your novel taught in the next classroom.

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This week we're joined by editor and agent Danielle Binks for a special minisode celebrating Australian Reading Hour - as if the BW squad needed an excuse to set aside some reading time, right?! Listen for some great recommendations from Danielle including new releases to keep an eye on.

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Named London Book Fair's Book Blogger of the Year, Lucy is pretty accomplished. She chats to us about moving internationally, her love for Sydney and rebranding her blog as The Literary Edit! Michelle and Caitlin also give a quick wrap up of their weekend at Brisbane Writers Festival.

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This week Sally Piper joins us to talk about how her love of nature and the Australian bush influenced her latest novel, The Geography of Friendship. We're also discussing how Sally's previous career as a nurse helps her writing in the most unlikely ways, and the pressure of winning literary awards.

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Hi everyone, we just have a quick update for you this week. From now on, we'll be doing fortnightly episodes. Thanks! - Caitlin & Michelle

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This week we are joined by Lisa Stephenson whose debut book Read Me First will help you find a new path to success, however you define it. In what is probably our most inspirational interview to date, Lisa walks us through how she wrote Read Me First after building a successful life coaching career and shares with us the simple ways we can all start to make changes in our daily lives to take us where we want to be.

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This week's guest is a writer, mother and former rock groupie. She’s done every job from TV acting to legal counselling to check-out chick and cleaner. We're chatting to Nikki all about her ideas, writing and the difference between writing fiction and non-fiction. There's something for everybody in this episode!

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We have been doing this for a whole year! Thank you so much for listening and for supporting us over the past year. For our first birthday, we're throwing it back to our first episode and having a Harry Potter party! We're chatting Fantastic Beasts, ships, 20th anniversaries and playing a game of would you rather.

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Dream of working in a bookshop? Us too! This week we're joined by Mischa from Better Read Than Dead, an iconic store in Sydney's Newtown. We're discussing the weird things customers say, how much of a difference awards and adaptations actually make and how booksellers balance their budgets when they're surrounded by the things they love.

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Want to build a bookstagram feed which will stop people scrolling and get them double tapping? Insta guru Sarah Taviani is joining us for a special workshop covering all elements of improving your feed including photography, content, and account management. Get some pen and paper - you'll want to take notes!

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Michelle is back from her holiday! But that's not the most exciting thing! 'Does My Head Look Big In This?' and 'When Michael Met Mina' author Randa Abdel-Fattah joins us for an amazing discussion. Michelle and Caitlin say 'wow' a lot and just soak up everything Randa says.

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'Palace of Tears' and 'The Opal Dragonfly' author Julian Leatherdale is the first male guest of Better Words! We're discussing theatre, documentaries, historical fiction, writing and publishing. There's something for everybody in this episode.

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This year is going by so fast! Join us for a full on GUSH fest of everything we've loved in the first half of 2018. We're talking tv shows, movies, music, podcasts and of course, books. Also, there's another update from Michelle and Jack on their Irish adventure.

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This week we're joined by Sarah and Alex of Melbourne's young adult book club, The YA Room. Chatting all about how they got started, hosting book launches and events, to the first YA Day! Hopefully next year we can attend, but until then, listen to our chat (and find out our dream dinner guests!)

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Like Kristen Bell? Teenage detectives? Feminist, progressive and sassy TV shows? If you answered 'yes' and haven't watched Veronica Mars then you should! Our discussion about the sassy woman herself will either make you want to watch or rewatch the TV series and movie. Plus enjoy a clip from Michelle and Jack from Dublin!

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Want to spread the bookish love? Ali Berg and Michelle Kalus are Melbourne's own book ninjas and their mission to add a little literature to everyone's day has become a national success. This week they're joining us to talk about Book on the Rain and their brand new YA debut based on the venture.

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This week we are spilling the tea on the latest bookish news and discussing whether creators should leave their characters alone, how many editions of Harry Potter we'll buy and whether 'Netflix for books' is a good idea. Listen on Apple Podcast, Overcast, CastBox, Stitcher or Libsyn.

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If you’ve still got a royal wedding hangover, this episode is the perfect antidote as we speak to Claire from the Brit Lit Podcast. But it’s not all about British booms as Claire shares her unique journey to crowdfunded publication and we chat about the strangeness of moving from England to America.

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This week you get to hear us catch up on our hectic lives including plenty of beef, cults and live podcasts. We're also sharing mini interviews from LoveYA Day in Brisbane with Steph Bowe, Cath Crowley and Paula Weston.

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This week we're talking books and business with the women who've been posting goodies across Australia for nearly two years. Each box is lovingly prepared and, as we learn in this episode, hand-packed by Alison and Rebecca who spoke to us as they prepared their much-anticipated Obsidio boxes for shipping.

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This week Caitlin and Michelle are sharing the stories behind some of their books! We have souvenirs, gifts and books we came across randomly. All the books on every bookshelf have a story, and we're sharing some of ours in this episode.

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What if you made a decision you couldn't take back? This week, Caitlin and Michelle are joined by author Gabrielle Reid to chat about her debut, 'The Things We Can't Undo'. Listen in to our discussion about writing with teens in mind and how important starting conversations is.

Please note we had some connection problems while recording so some moments may be hard to hear.

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Have you seen that movie? Read the book? Which do you prefer? Comparing books to their adaptations is something we all do. This week, Caitlin and Michelle chat about some more recent adaptions from YA contemporaries to dramatic mini series'.

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Have you ever stumbled upon a strange fact and wanted to know more? This week Lauren Chater shares the story behind her beautiful historical fiction debut, sparked by a book about Estonia lace weaving. Lauren, who also has a talent for delicately decorated book-themed cookies, shares some insights from the kitchen with us as well.

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Sometimes you just feel a little...off. This week we discuss motivation: finding it, keeping it, and building on it. We talk reading and reviewing slumps and some ways to kick them to the curb.

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She's well known as the award winning author of four novels, but Fiona Wood had a successful screenwriting career before turning her hand at books. This week, we discuss what goes on behind the scenes and off the set, as well as how three friends write a novel.

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Join us as we walk through the White Way of Delight to discuss the delightful Anne (with an 'e'), a character that shaped our childhood. We will be talking about the Cuthberts, bosom friendships and, of course, the only boy whose head we'd ever want to break a slate over. There's no one quite like Anne Shirley.

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How do you create a better understanding of the many diverse lives we're living without representation in the stories we're told from childhood? Faced with a disappointing lack of diverse picture books, Jessica Walton crowdfunded and published her own story about gender identity. In this episode, we discuss diversity in publishing and how it can be improved.

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Bookmarks or dog-earing? Favourite reading spots and whether we listen to audiobooks. This week we're chatting about our sometimes strange reading habits and attempting to explain why we read the way we do.

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What are you going to do after high school? The dreaded question for anyone without a five-year plan. But Kate O'Donnell explains why it's okay not to have a plan post-graduation, the dilemmas faced by teens growing up in rural and regional areas and how passion guided her career choices.

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Truth is stranger than fiction, or so they say. We're diving into true stories this week to share what we love about them, what gets us hooked and some of our favourite non-fiction reads, including plenty of girl power (of course).

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Can blogging lead you to a new career? Adele Walsh did just that, transforming her hobby into a career she loves. She shares her tips for people wanting to do the same and discusses the importance of teen-only spaces in the bookish community. Get ready to be inspired!

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Okay babes, listen up. We’re spilling the tea on the latest news including the future of indie bookstores, whether the ‘Gram is ruining art, why book awards are so important and why we’re riled up about the next Fantastic Beasts movie.

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This week we’re joined by blogger, speaker and appearance activist Carly Findlay. She’s discussing the mammoth task of memoir writing, ableism and the positive and negative impacts of speaking out online.

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How and why do we review and what happens when we didn’t love the book? This week we chat reviews (the good, the bad and the indifferent) and the relationships between authors and readers. Remember folks, be kind.

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This week we’re chatting social media and digital lives with Gabrielle Williams, author of My Life as a Hashtag. She talks us through her writing process as well sharing some special details about her latest project.

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This week we are taking you on stage to share our favourite musical moments. We’re a little bit naughty as we talk about those summer nights and singin’ in the rain in an episode where anything goes.

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Travel is the only thing that makes you richer and this week we’re joined by Tamsien West from Babbling Books, a reader with a wealth of adventures to share. We’re talking about journeys, journaling and the secret to Instagram success. Bon voyage!

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The year is coming to a close! This week, Caitlin and Michelle chat all about their fave books, movies, tv shows and other things they loved about 2017. A lot happened this year, and we're already busy planning the next one.

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Sex, bodies, scars and recording the highs and lows of your life online. Nothing is off limits this week as Michelle and Caitlin are joined by the darling Grace Latter. Of course, we’re also talking books and blogging. Settle in with a coffee and meet your new girl crush.

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During December, The YA Room is celebrating LoveOzYA during the whole month! We're thrilled to be involved, airing our first minisode. Discussing our favourite LoveOzYA friendships, glad for any excuse to talk about Aussie books and authors!

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It's the most wonderful time of the year.. This week, Michelle and Caitlin are chatting all about Christmas. Discussing their fave holiday movies, TV specials, music and books. Do you prefer Elf or The Grinch? Pop Christmas music or the classic carols? Join us and prepare for the festive season.

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We all know if you get knocked down, you get back up again and it couldn't be more true in the publishing industry. This week, writing and blogging boss babe Margot McGovern explains the story and process behind getting her debut YA novel published. Get writing, people!

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This week we get a sneak peek behind the scenes of our favourite book store and a taste of the publishing industry. We’re joined by Tonile Wortley from Hachette to talk about the books we don’t even know we want to read yet. Get those Christmas wishlists ready!

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This week Michelle is telling us all (including Caitlin) about her trip to the UK! There is stories about adorable dogs, tea, Harry Potter, The Beatles and all that British goodness. Listen in and get ready to book your next holiday!

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This week Caitlin and Michelle are joined by their IRL bestie, Indy of TapsLifeAndBooks! We're chatting about series versus stand alones, our fave series, booktube and sharing some friendship stories! If you're a Cassandra Clare or Sarah J. Maas fan you're in for a treat!

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Michelle and Caitlin are joined by a dynamic sister duo this week, Sarah and Emma from Bottled Books! They've just launched their bookish nail polish business (we can't wait for ours to arrive). We are all obsessed with musicals, nail polish and books so we hope you enjoy!

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Are you a Tina or Queenie? Do you prefer bowtruckles or nifflers? This week, it's all about the costumes, characters and creatures! We're talking all about magizoology after watching Fantastic Beasts and Where to Find Them!

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Can you name a book from the first line? Are you more into classics or contemporary? Join Caitlin and Michelle as they chat to Lucy Powrie. She's a blogger, Youtuber and host of #UKYAchat at only 17! Get ready to be amazed and inspired by our first international guest!

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We don't have many vices, but books are our weakness. This week we talk all about our growing book collections (including our two little obsessions, can you guess what they are?). Pull up a book stack and join us!

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We're obsessed with podcasts, social networks and the media in general. This week, Caitlin and Michelle talk to Bond University Lecturer Caroline Graham about the theory of creative writing and her experience working on a textbook and a novel!

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Ah the never ending TBR list... This week the girls are talking about how they decide what to read and when, their Goodreads habits and how one day you'll find them crushed by piles of books.

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Books can save anyone if they're the right ones, and that's exactly what Caitlin and Michelle are discussing when they chat with Pip Harry about her beautiful, touching new novel Because of You.

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We couldn't keep the holiday joy to ourselves... so we're sharing it with all of you! In Brisbane we were all about staying sexy (and not getting murdered), bursting into song and being dangerous women with zero chill.

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... Ready for it? The girls are talking Taylor Swift, holiday reads and girly movies. A perfect match for our chat with Amanda, The Bookish Manicurist. Along with an amazing blog and YouTube channel, this weeks guest has nails to envy!

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Blogging, booktubing, bookstagramming... what does it all mean?! Caitlin and Michelle sit down with a cuppa to discuss how writing about books online has changed their lives (and their bookshelves). It's time to hit publish!

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There's no need to resort to dog-earing those pages (the horror!) with the sweet handmade bookmarks sold by Nook and Burrow, co-created by Lillytales blogger and booktuber Kate. Find out how Kate turned her hobby into a business and how scents are decided, plus the usual bookish banter. Because, we like talking.

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Is the book always better? Or are there times when the best way to tell a story is on the screen? Michelle and Caitlin chat film and television adaptations, popcorn at the ready.

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Is self-publishing really elementary, my dear listeners? Ellie Marney, author of the award-winning Every series, an Aussie Sherlock Holmes retelling, joins Caitlin and Michelle to explain how she took the leap into self-publishing her brand spanking new spin-off No Limits. Have your deerstalker at the ready!

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Wide streets, wider skies and... fibreglass bulls? Rocky's own Anna Daniels joins Caitlin and Michelle as they talk about storytelling in regional areas, with a whole lot of love for their own hometown. Pack up the swags, it's time to hit the road.

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Saddle up your kangaroo, take a bite of your Vegemite sandwich and grab a glass of Milo to join Caitlin and Michelle chatting to writing wonder woman Danielle Binks. The #LoveOzYA anthology editor talks sharing our culture and positive change in publishing. ‘Straya mate.

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Turns out, Molly is a nickname for Margret. Join Caitlin and Michelle as they talk about some of their favourite childhood books and their difference reading experiences while growing up.

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Are you ready to be inspired? Today Michelle and Caitlin chat to boss babe Gabrielle Tozer. She’s a journalist, copywriter, author, Bachie fanatic and lover of Hawaiian pizza. Gabrielle dishes the dirt on intern life and passes on some career wisdom as this week’s special guest.

Gabrielle Tozer is the author of The Intern, Faking It, Remind Me How This Ends and Peas and Quiet (illustrated by Sue deGennaro). She was also published in Begin, End, Begin: A #LoveOzYA Anthology.

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Welcome to Better Words! For our very first episode, we are departing from Platform 9 and 3/4 for a Harry Potter Party! Happy birthday to Harry and J.K. Rowling, let’s kick off our podcast!