A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast: Recent Episodes
Lorilee Binstock
In this podcast series, I'll share my experiences as a trauma survivor and my journey through recovery. With the help of mental health advocates and experts, we will discuss ways to dismantle the stigma around mental illness to promote mental wellness.
In this powerful episode of A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast, host Lorilee Binstock talks with Stephanie Hutchins, author of See Through: The Art and Cost of Radical Transparency. Together, they explore what it means to live authentically after trauma — setting boundaries, embracing imperfection, and embodying post-traumatic growth.
Stephanie shares her journey from high-functioning trauma to embodied healing, discussing how listening to the body and nervous system leads to genuine transformation.
✨ Topics Covered:
- What radical transparency looks like in real life
- Setting boundaries without losing yourself
- Healing the nervous system after trauma
- High-functioning trauma and authenticity
- Post-traumatic growth and self-compassion
About the Guest:
Stephanie M. Hutchins, PhD, is the author of See Through: The Art and Cost of Radical Transparency in a World That Profits from Pretending, as well as three earlier books on trauma recovery: Transformation After Trauma, Reclaim Your Life After Trauma, and Moving Forward. She is the founder of Serotinous Life, where she helps people healing from trauma harness the power of post-traumatic growth and reclaim authorship of their stories. A former college professor with fourteen years of experience teaching anatomy and physiology, Stephanie integrates science, embodiment, and coaching tools—including certifications in life coaching, wellness coaching, stress management, yoga, and NLP—into her work. Grounded in lived experience of childhood abuse, sudden loss, and high-functioning suffering, she guides others to move beyond survival and into integration, proving that healing isn't about erasing the past but about learning to live fully seen, even with the scars.
- https://www.serotinouslife.com/see-through
- https://www.facebook.com/serotinouslife
- https://www.youtube.com/@serotinouslife
- https://www.instagram.com/serotinouslife
- https://www.linkedin.com/in/serotinouslife
In this deeply moving episode of A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast, host Lorilee Binstock sits down with Patrice Griffin, writer, activist, and survivor who courageously fought for justice after enduring years of sexual abuse by members of the Black Watch Movement and X Clan. For more on her story, listen to her episode in Season 1 after releasing her book, The Unconscious Community.
Patrice shares how she used the Child Victims Act to win her civil cases, her five-year legal battle for accountability, and how therapy and advocacy became the foundation of her healing.
Together, Lorilee and Patrice discuss:
💬 The emotional toll of reliving trauma in the justice system
⚖️ How the Child Victims Act changed the game for survivors
🧠 The power of trauma-informed care and mental health support
❤️ Turning pain into purpose through advocacy and community
🌍 The importance of believing survivors and protecting children
Patrice is also the founder of Patrice’s Kids, a nonprofit dedicated to empowering children in underserved communities through education and awareness.
⚠️ Content Warning: This episode includes discussions of child sexual abuse and trauma. Please take care of yourself while listening.
🎧 Listen to A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast on:
Mental Health News Radio Network | Spotify | Apple Podcasts | YouTube
When writer and mother Amber Sweet Davis heard the words “your child has cancer,” her world changed forever. In this powerful episode of A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast, host Lorilee Binstock sits down with Amber to discuss her emotional memoir, Please Don’t Die — a raw, unfiltered look at motherhood, trauma, grief, and resilience in the face of unimaginable loss.
Amber opens up about her four-year-old son’s neuroblastoma diagnosis, the emotional and physical toll of treatment, and how writing became her lifeline. Together, they explore what it means to mother through fear, find strength in vulnerability, and hold on to love and hope even in the darkest seasons.
This episode is for anyone navigating grief, parenting through crisis, or healing after trauma — a reminder that survival isn’t about perfection, but about the courage to keep showing up with an open heart.
To Purchase Her Book, Click Here
In this episode of A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast, host Lorilee Binstock speaks with Jane Chen, social entrepreneur, inventor, and co-founder of Embrace Global, the organization behind a low-cost infant incubator that has saved more than one million premature babies around the world.
While Jane’s humanitarian work earned global recognition, from presidents to the World Economic Forum, behind her achievements was a woman quietly unraveling. Burned out and battling the scars of childhood trauma, Jane faced the collapse of her identity when her company nearly fell apart.
In her deeply personal memoir, Like a Wave We Break: A Memoir of Falling Apart and Finding Myself, Jane shares her transformative healing journey, from confronting her father’s violence to exploring somatic therapy, Internal Family Systems, psychedelics, and working directly with Bessel van der Kolk, author of The Body Keeps the Score.
Jane and Lorilee dive into how overachievement can mask trauma, why talk therapy alone isn’t enough, and how redefining success through self-compassion, presence, and surrender led Jane to a more authentic life.
If you’ve ever struggled with burnout, identity, or the relentless drive to prove your worth, this conversation will remind you that our greatest breaking points can lead to our most profound breakthroughs.
What happens when you break free from a doomsday cult and an abusive marriage—but lose everything you’ve ever known?
In this episode of A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast, host Lorilee Binstock talks with Brooke Deanne, a Trauma Healing Mentor, Rapid Transformational Therapist (RTT), NLP Practitioner, and Author of “Shattered, Broken, and Beautiful: Losing My Religion and Finding Faith.”
Brooke shares her courageous story of surviving religious trauma, narcissistic abuse, and psychological control—and how therapy, self-discovery, and spirituality helped her reclaim her voice and rebuild her life.
This powerful conversation explores faith beyond religion, the impact of cult programming, and what it truly means to heal after trauma.
🎧 Tune in now for an inspiring story of freedom, resilience, and rediscovering authentic faith.
Learn More about Brooke Deanne, Here
Buy the Book Here
When life feels heavy, healing starts with honesty. In this candid episode of A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast, host Lorilee Binstock opens up about navigating emotional exhaustion and parenting challenges while exploring what spirituality really means. Joined by Authentic Insider's Art Director Cali Binstock, they dive into self-compassion, guilt, and the messy reality of healing.
💫 A raw, heart-centered conversation on spirituality, parenting, and showing up as your authentic self—especially when life gets hard.
When betrayal shattered her marriage, author Sarah May hit rock bottom. In this episode of A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast, Sarah shares how she found healing through community, solo adventures, and writing her memoir She Journeys, a powerful reminder that from heartbreak can come homecoming.
Visit shejourneys.us to find out where to purchase the book and visit traumasurvivorthriver.com for past episodes of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast or to read the latest issue of Authentic Insider Magazine here.
In this powerful episode of A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast, host Lorilee Binstock sits down with Amanda Carrasco, author of Becoming the Brave One. Amanda shares her story of surviving childhood abuse, the devastating murder of her sister and twin nephews, and how restorative justice became a pathway to healing, courage, and peace. Her journey is a testament to resilience, self-love, and the power of choosing bravery every day.
In conversation with host Lorilee Binstock, Amanda reflects on her traumatic childhood marked by violence, sexual abuse, and the devastating murder of her sister and twin sons. She recalls how the woman who became her caregiver and who she considered her sister provided safety and love in the midst of chaos, and how that loss pushed her into years of numbness and survival.
Through years of hard work, therapy, and an unrelenting will to heal, Amanda realized she was not truly surviving or thriving until she faced her trauma head-on. She opens up about her experiences with restorative justice—a process that brings victims back into the center of the justice system, gives them a voice, and encourages offenders to take accountability and develop empathy. Amanda courageously shares what it was like to sit face-to-face with the man who murdered her sister, and how that experience ultimately gave her peace and freedom.
Her memoir, Becoming the Brave One, is more than a story of survival; it is a call to bravery, a testament to the human spirit’s ability to overcome, and an invitation for others not to give up on their healing. Amanda’s honesty and vulnerability will leave listeners with hope, inspiration, and a reminder that healing is possible—even after the darkest of tragedies.
Visit For more information on Amanda Carassco, visit https://amandacarrasco.com/
In this heartfelt episode of A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast, host Lorilee Binstock is joined by Cali, Art Director of Authentic Insider magazine, to share their deeply personal healing journeys.
Cali opens up about a transformative summer that included weaning off Zoloft, exploring psilocybin microdosing, and working through EMDR therapy to release painful memories from her teenage years. She describes how these experiences helped her quiet her inner critic, make clearer decisions, and embrace compassion and acceptance for herself.
Lorilee also shares how psychedelics and Internal Family Systems Therapy helped her connect with, and ultimately heal, her own angry part, as well as her difficult journey weaning off of Zoloft. Together, they explore how alternative therapies like EMDR and psychedelics can support trauma survivors in building resilience, self-awareness, and emotional freedom.
Stay tuned for the next episode, featuring guest Amanda Carrasco, a powerful survivor whose story of loss and restorative justice offers profound lessons on healing and courage.
For more episodes and resources, visit traumasurvivorthriver.com.
The conversations in this podcast reflect personal, lived experiences of the guests and host. They are shared for storytelling and informational purposes only and should not be taken as medical, psychological, or professional advice. Nothing discussed in this episode is intended to replace guidance from qualified healthcare providers or other licensed experts. Please seek professional advice before making decisions related to your health, wellbeing, or treatment.
In the heartfelt season 6 finale of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast, host Lorilee Binstock is joined by her cousin and Authentic Insider Magazine Creative Director, Cali Binstock for an unscripted and emotional conversation about the realities of recovery, setbacks, and healing. The two dive deep into the messy middle of mental health—those moments when progress feels like it's slipping away, and the tools we've learned feel just out of reach. Lorilee vulnerably shares her recent struggles with feeling stuck, overwhelmed, and unable to ask for help, while Cali offers insight, validation, and the kind of support that only a soul-connected family member can give.
Together, they reflect on the importance of safe relationships, self-compassion, the power of naming what you need, and how healing is not linear—but more like blooming in cycles. They also discuss Internal Family Systems (IFS), trauma behaviors, and the emotional labor it takes to communicate your needs in relationships. Raw, real, and refreshingly honest, this episode is a moving reminder that thriving doesn't mean perfection—it means staying in the work, even when it’s hard.
🎙️ Choose You First: Michelle Bishop on Shedding the Masks and Reclaiming Your Authentic Self
In this empowering episode of A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast, host Lorilee Binstock sits down with Michelle Bishop, Master Life Coach and author of Choose You First, to explore the life-changing power of putting yourself first—without guilt, shame, or apology.
Michelle shares how so many of us live behind masks, shaped by stories we’ve been told and narratives we’ve told ourselves. Through personal insight and practical wisdom, she guides listeners on how to break free from people-pleasing, let go of limiting beliefs, and reconnect with their most authentic, empowered self.
💥 In this episode, you’ll learn:
- Why choosing yourself is essential for healing and growth
- How to identify and release the masks you've worn to survive
- Tools for rewriting internal narratives rooted in trauma
- How authenticity leads to emotional freedom and personal power
- The connection between self-worth, boundaries, and transformation
Whether you're on a healing journey, navigating trauma recovery, or ready to stop playing small, this episode offers the insight and encouragement you need to finally choose you.
📘 Learn more about Michelle’s work and her book Choose You First
🎧 Subscribe to A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast for more expert interviews on healing, self-discovery, and mental wellness.
🎙️ Healing Education Through Trauma: Karen Gross on Mending Education and Supporting Students Post-Pandemic
In this powerful episode of A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast, host Lorilee Binstock speaks with Karen Gross, a trauma-informed education expert, former college president, and author of Mending Education: Finding Hope, Creativity, and Mental Wellness in Times of Trauma.
Karen shares how the COVID-19 pandemic has reshaped the education system—and why now is the time to rethink how we support students affected by trauma, anxiety, and mental health challenges. From social-emotional learning (SEL) to creative and connected classrooms, Karen offers real strategies for helping children thrive in a post-trauma world.
🎧 In this episode, you’ll learn about:
- The long-term impact of trauma on student behavior and learning
- How to integrate emotional wellness into academic instruction
- The concept of breakaway learners and how to reach them
- Karen’s global perspective from working in Kenya and the United Kingdom
- How creativity, community, and compassion build better schools
- Practical tips for educators, parents, and policymakers alike
If you're interested in trauma-informed education, mental health in schools, and building resilient learning environments, this conversation is filled with inspiration and actionable insights.
📘 Learn more about Karen’s work at https://karengrosseducation.com/
🎙️ Subscribe to A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast for more expert conversations on trauma, healing, and resilience.
In this powerful episode of A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast, host Lorilee Binstock speaks with Babs Walters, survivor and author of Facing the Jaguar: A Memoir of Courage and Confrontation. Babs shares her courageous journey of healing from childhood sexual abuse by her father—a trauma she kept secret for over 70 years.
Raised by teenage parents who met in reform school, Babs faced a childhood filled with violence, betrayal, and emotional neglect. After being sexually abused at age 11 and threatened into silence, she bravely attempted to speak out at 14 and 16—only to be dismissed and disbelieved by trusted adults. Decades of shame and guilt followed, until she began her path to healing later in life.
🎧 In this episode, Babs and Lorilee explore:
- The long-term effects of childhood trauma
- The silence and stigma surrounding sexual abuse
- What happens when survivors are not believed
- The impact of family secrets and generational trauma
- How Babs found healing through writing, self-reflection, and confronting the past
- The importance of sharing survivor stories to reduce shame and inspire others
You can also share your story through https://bravevoices.org/speak/
This conversation is a raw and inspiring reminder that healing is always possible—no matter how much time has passed. Whether you’re a survivor, a supporter, or someone looking to better understand the lasting effects of childhood trauma, this episode offers deep insight, compassion, and hope.
🔗 Connect with us:
Website: www.traumasurvivorthriver.com
Guest: by Babs Walters, Author of Facing the Jaguar
Host: Lorilee Binstock | A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast
ChildhoodSexualAbuse #SurvivorStory #TraumaHealing #MentalHealthPodcast #BabsWalters #LorileeBinstock #FamilyTrauma #CSARecovery #SurvivorSupport #FacingTheJaguar #HealingFromAbuse #TraumaSurvivorPodcast #ItGetsBetter #EndTheSilence
How do we help children navigate grief in a way that feels safe and healing? In this episode, Dr. Haley Arias, chiropractor and author of When I Can't See You, shares her deeply personal story of loss, the challenges of infertility, and the healing journey that led her to write a book for grieving children. She discusses the power of EMDR therapy, the importance of destigmatizing grief, and how stargazing became a bridge between her and her late brother and father.
Join us for an emotional and insightful conversation on how storytelling can help both children and parents process loss together.
🎧 Listen now! #GriefHealing #ChildrensBooks #MentalHealthMatters
New to the podcast or just want a deeper look into my journey? In this solo episode, I share an honest, unfiltered reflection on my story—where I started, how it’s going, what I’m currently working on, and insights from my latest 5-MeO-DMT experience. This stream-of-consciousness session is a deep dive into my personal evolution, challenges, and breakthroughs. If you're interested in personal growth, transformation, and psychedelic experiences, this episode is for you. Don’t forget to like, comment, and subscribe for more content!
Growing Up in the Shadow of a Special Needs Sibling with Kathryn Selvidge
In this episode of A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast, I sit down with Kathryn Selvidge, author of Khloe’s New Start, a heartfelt children’s book inspired by her experience growing up as the sibling of a mentally ill older brother.
When a child has special needs, parents naturally devote much of their time and energy to their care. But what about the siblings? Often, they are left to navigate their emotions alone, leading to feelings of neglect, isolation, and even unspoken resentment. Kathryn shares her personal journey, the struggles she faced as a child, and the lessons she hopes to pass on to parents raising both special needs and neurotypical children.
This is an essential conversation for families, caregivers, and anyone seeking to better understand the unique challenges of siblings in special needs households.
🎧 Listen now on your favorite podcast platform!
TraumaSurvivorThriver #Podcast #SpecialNeedsParenting #MentalHealthAwareness #SiblingSupport #ChildrensBooks #HealingThroughStories
Unlocking Brain Restoration with Dr. David Stevens | A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast 🎙️🧠
Join Lorilee Binstock as she sits down with Dr. David Stevens, clinical psychologist and neuropsychologist, to explore how understanding the brain's glucose system can transform mental health.
In this episode, Dr. Stevens breaks down how glucose levels directly impact anxiety, depression, impulsivity, and emotional regulation — and how replenishing the brain’s fuel can help restore self-love and improve overall functioning.
Discover how trauma, brain chemistry, and personalized healing programs can unlock new levels of self-understanding and restoration — even for those who feel lost in their healing journey.
🔑 Key Topics:
- The brain's three primary functions
- How glucose affects mental health
- Brain restoration methods
- Addressing trauma in incarcerated individuals
- Reclaiming inherent self-worth
Listen now and learn how to fuel your brain and restore your authentic self.
BrainRestoration #MentalHealthHealing #TraumaRecovery #Neuropsychology #AuthenticHealing
🎧 Listen on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, or your favorite streaming platform!
"Healing Through Intuition & Self-Love | Katie Beecher’s Journey"
In this episode, Katie Beecher, a licensed professional counselor, renowned medical and spiritual intuitive and Author of Heal from Within: A Guidebook to Intuitive Wellness, shares her powerful journey of healing and self-discovery. Growing up with an alcoholic father and abusive mother, Katie developed an eating disorder as a way to cope with feelings of shame and inadequacy. She opens up about overcoming depression, anxiety, and childhood trauma by learning to trust her intuition and embrace self-love. Through therapy and deep inner work, Katie learned to set boundaries, break free from dysfunction, and guide others on their own healing paths. Tune in as she discusses the power of intuition, the importance of self-acceptance, and how these tools can transform your life.
🔔 Subscribe for more insights on healing, spirituality, and personal growth!
KatieBeecher #Intuition #SelfLove #HealingJourney #MentalHealth #Spirituality #TraumaRecovery #Podcast
In this episode with Dr. Jamie Huysman, Founder and Executive Director of the STAR Network, we explore Neuro Parenting, an approach that acknowledges how complex trauma impacts a child’s developing brain and why traditional parenting methods may fall short. By re-parenting ourselves, we can create a safe and nurturing environment for our children.
Dr. Jamie Huysman shares his insights on self-love, awareness, and therapy as key elements in healing from childhood trauma. Dr. Jamie discusses DBT, IFS, and neuroplasticity as tools for breaking cycles of trauma. We also highlight the STAR Network, and their weekly support groups, TARANON, which supports parents and children healing from toxic relationships and trauma through community programs and trauma-informed approaches.
Tune in for expert advice on fostering resilience, self-regulation, and emotional safety in both parents and children
A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast Youtube https://youtu.be/5M6vuH0ObEE
STAR Network YouTube channel @starnetworkfoundation
In this powerful episode of A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast, I sit down with Nia Renee, Narcissistic Abuse Coach and Founder of How to Love a Battered Woman LLC. 💜
Nia shares her harrowing journey of childhood abuse at the hands of her mother and siblings, how that trauma shaped her relationships, and the deep healing that led her to reclaim her personal power. We dive into:
✨ The lasting impact of childhood abuse on adult relationships
✨ Breaking free from toxic cycles
✨ The importance of a partner who gives you space to heal
✨ How love—real, safe, and supportive love—can be a part of the healing journey
In this episode, Rabbi Harry Rosenberg, co-founder of Trippy.VC, shares his journey from mastering the Torah to exploring the transformative potential of psychedelics. As an Orthodox rabbi who has ventured beyond traditional teachings, he discusses how psychedelics have deepened his spirituality.
Rabbi Harry opens up about his belief in psychedelics as a tool for personal and collective healing, especially in regions of conflict. He explains how healing trauma individually is a necessary step before broader reconciliation efforts can succeed. He also touches on the historical Jewish ancestry of many Palestinians and how psychedelic experiences have facilitated secret healing circles between Jews and Palestinians, fostering understanding in a deeply divided region.
Additionally, Rabbi Harry discusses his mission to establish a retreat center in Israel for plant-based healing and conflict resolution. He talks about working with organizations for versions of psychedelics like psilocybin and DMT to make them available for those looking for psychedelic healing.
Tune in to hear about: ✅ His journey from Torah study to psychedelic advocacy
✅ How psychedelics helped him heal fand find spirituality
✅ The role of psychedelics in Israeli-Palestinian reconciliation
✅ His vision for a psychedelic-based retreat center in Israel
✅ Investing in psychedelic research and development
This conversation is a powerful exploration of spirituality, healing, and the potential of psychedelics to bridge divides and foster peace.
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@RabbiHarryR
Instagram:https://www.instagram.com/rabbiharry/?hl=en
In this powerful episode of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast, author and trauma survivor Beverly Armento shares her journey of resilience, healing, and hope. Raised in a home that turned abusive after her mother’s psychological break, Beverly endured years of physical and emotional trauma while taking on the role of caretaker for her younger siblings. She opens up about her struggles with suicidal thoughts, her decision to leave her abusive home, and how she found solace in school and church. Through education, she discovered a vision for a better future, ultimately becoming a teacher and a mentor to others. Beverly discusses the importance of hope, self-discovery, and the role of mentors in overcoming trauma, as she details in her memoir, Seeing Eye Girl: A Memoir of Madness, Resilience, and Hope and her latest book, Life's Turning Points. Tune in for an inspiring conversation about survival, healing, and the power of having a vision for a brighter future.
In this episode of A Trauma Survivor Thriver Podcast, host Lorilee Binstock sits down with breathwork practitioner, author of Soul/Life Balance, and serial entrepreneur Sam Kabert to explore the transformative power of psychedelics, breathwork and its connection to healing and personal growth. Sam shares insights into how breathwork, alongside psychedelics, including 5MeoDMT, can aid in trauma recovery and breaking through limiting beliefs. Additionally, Lorilee and Sam discuss their experiences with 5-MeO-DMT, a powerful psychedelic derived from toad venom, explaining its potential for deep healing and sharing his personal experiences.
The conversation also delves into Sam’s free online community, the Breath Club, which offers support for individuals on their healing journeys.
Listeners will gain valuable insights into the intersection of breathwork, psychedelics, and holistic practices like yoga and meditation, as well as practical tools for mental and emotional healing.
In this episode, Lorilee Binstock interviews John Ford, founder of Empathy Set and a mediator specializing in conflict resolution. They discuss the transformative power of empathy in relationships and its role in resolving conflicts. John shares insights from his Empathy Set tool, featuring cards with feelings and needs prompts, which foster emotional connection and understanding. He emphasizes the importance of acknowledging emotions, managing triggers, and building healthy communication habits.
Listeners are encouraged to check out John’s article, Reaction to Response, in the December issue of Authentic Insider magazine. Additionally, John shares free resources like his Dictionary of Feelings and Needs on his website, EmpathSkills.
Lorilee continues exploring empathy and conflict resolution with more practical tools and insights.
Don’t forget to subscribe to receive the monthly magazine and stay updated!
This week (11/21) on a Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast, Cody Peterson, the author of The Shadow of a Figure of Light joins Lorilee Binstock and talks about the concept of the shadow and how it relates to addiction. Cody is a recovering alcoholic and drug addict who has been sober for over 11 years. He discusses how the shadow is the unconscious part of our personalities that contains repressed traits and characteristics that we may not be aware of. Peterson also shares how confronting our shadow can be a painful but necessary process in our healing journey. Cody shares his spiritual journey, which began as a practicing Christian but later expanded to include Eastern philosophies and teachings from figures like Carl Jung.
This week’s guest on “A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast” is Dr. Layla Salek, Author of “Chaos in Colors,” who has synesthesia, a condition in which she sees people in color, which later inspired her book. Her book talks about her childhood raised by a single mother living with untreated bipolar disorder. Layla also struggled with social anxiety after having her daughter, which prompted her healing journey. Layla shares her story of healing and forgiveness. She emphasizes the importance of being present and getting out of one's head, as well as the need to forgive in order to let go of past trauma.
Lorilee Binstock talks with Erin Williamson, Chief Programs & Strategy Officer from Love 146, an organization that helps fight human trafficking. They discuss the legal definition of Human Trafficking and it's myths. Erin shares how her work at Love 146 influences how she parents her own children. She also shares tips on how to talk to your children about human trafficking and how to protect them in today's digital age.
Catherine Duncan is an integrative spiritual consultant and Author of "Everyday Awakening: Five Practices for Living Fully, Feeling Deeply and Coming into Your Heart and Soul." She shares her journey of finding her authentic self and discusses the importance of living in the present moment and cultivating feelings of oneness and love. She also encourages listeners to practice gratitude and mindfulness to start their day in a positive way. Her book offers five practices for living a more fulfilling and connected life. She talks about her own journey in finding healing from her own trauma of surviving death twice and how she incorporates spirituality into her practice. She also shares some tips on how to start the healing journey, such as noticing if you are dysregulated and using your senses to ground yourself in the present moment. She also encourages people to define their own spirituality and what gives them meaning and life.
Food has the power to nourish and sustain our bodies. But did you know it can be used to heal your soul and your body knows intuitively what specific food it needs?
Lorilee Binstock speaks with Lainie Sevante Wulkan, author of High Vibrational Wellness and many other best selling books and products, when we discuss Intuitive Food Therapy and how you can connect deeper and heal your body and mind with the power of food
Lainie Sevante Wulkan is Founder of The Center for Intuitive Food Therapy (CIFT), Nourish Your Soul Ayurveda (Pure, organic teas and incense from Nepal) & Nourish Your Soul Retreats, where she teaches mind, body & spirit wellness in exotic locations across the globe). She’s a multi–modality healer with advanced certifications in Food Healing, Theta Healing, and EFT/Tapping. She holds a BS in Food Science, Dietetics, and Nutrition from California State University, Northridge, and top of class in Jeff Primack’s Conquering All Disease Advance Food Healing Instructor program. She comes from a multi-generation of intuitives.
She's International bestselling Author having Co- written The Food Healing Oracle Deck – Nourishing Wisdom from Mother Earth series, now in 35 countries, created Smoothies – Nourishing Wisdom Beyond the Blend, Top Exotic Foods for Natural Healing and wrote Chapter 3 in The Energy Healers Oracle deemed “#21 out of 100 Best healing books” of all time by Book Authority. Her beloved #1 bestselling children's book, Finn's Giant Leap, started her writing journey and creates positive messaging for those young and young at heart.
Her passion for elevating humanity with pathways to nourishing the mind, body & soul is felt in all of her creations. Whether attending global sojourns into wellness on exotic Nourish Your Soul Retreats, taking her online wellness classes, becoming a Certified Intuitive Food Therapist, receiving private healings,hearing the Nourish Your Soul Show, or enjoying her organic, Ayurvedic tea and incense imports from Nepal, a deeper knowing of Spirit and greater expansion of self is realized.
In this week’s episode(Thursday, 10/17) of A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast, I had the honor of speaking with Scott Grace, Author of Mindful Masculinity, A Book for Men and the Women Who Love Them. We discuss the traditional norms of how society views masculinity and how damaging toxic masculinity is in today’s world. Scott shares his personal experience growing up following his energy and his journey towards happiness and authenticity. As a comedian, spiritual coach, singer-songwriter, Scott riffs a bit and gives us a musical snack so stay til the end.
Purchase his book here, Mindful Masculinity, A Book for Men and the Women Who Love Them
You can find him on Youtube here
www.scottsongs.com
In this week’s episode, Lorilee Binstock interviews Tracey Yokas, Author of “Bloodlines: A Memoir of Harm and Healing.” Tracey talks about her journey as a parent of a child experiencing a mental health crisis and how it has impacted their family. She also discusses the challenges of dealing with eating disorders and the importance of self-care for parents. Tracey focuses on generational trauma and the patterns that get passed down from generation to generation. She emphasizes the need for parents to seek professional help and work on their own healing and understanding of their own patterns and behaviors.
In this episode of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's podcast, host Lorilee Binstock interviews Kathryn Walker, CEO of Revitalist Lifestyle and Wellness and author of "Inflamed:Theory." Kathryn is a strong advocate for psychedelic medicine and recently earned a second master's degree in psychiatric nursing. Her book, "Inflamed Theory", examines the link between inflammation and mental health. She discusses her theory, which is rooted in Newton's laws of physics, and breaks down the three main brain networks involved in mental health and addiction. Kathryn focuses on the concept of vulnerability and how psychedelics can act as a catalyst to help individuals sit with their emotions and process their trauma. Kathryn explains that when the body experiences stress or trauma, the response can be hyper or hypo-inflated. This leads to imbalanced levels of cortisol and serotonin, which can contribute to inflammation in the body. The use of ketamine and psychedelics can help regulate these levels and reduce inflammation. The example of shaking during a psychedelic experience is given as an example of releasing trauma from the body. Kathryn also discusses other options for decreasing inflammation, such as functional mushroom supplements.
I speak with Dr. Jamie Huysman, the founder of the Toxic Abusive Relationship (TAR) Network and soon to be the Star Network Foundation. We discuss toxic relationships and how to recognize red flags, set boundaries, and take care of oneself. He discusses the foundation’s new “Star Survivors of Toxic Relationships” initiative and how content creators can become socially responsible by providing trigger warnings and resources for their audience. He also encourages anyone interested to join the foundation and help spread awareness and healing. We also discuss the recent shooting at a Georgia school, and the need for accountability in parenting. He also discusses how the United States is unique in its mass shooting capabilities and the need for attachment disorder education in parenting programs. He introduces TAR ANON, a free program that offers support and education for those in toxic relationships. The program aims to help people find emotional regulation and authenticity through group meetings
In the first episode of season 6 of "A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast," host Lorilee Binstock welcomes Melissa Kilbride, a Certified Sex Therapist, to discuss the importance of early sexual health education and consent. Melissa shares her eclectic therapeutic approach, which includes cognitive behavioral interventions and mindfulness, and talks about her work with anxious children. They discuss the importance of open conversations about sexual health from a young age to prevent trauma and promote healthy relationships. Lorilee and Melissa also touch on generational differences in discussing sexual health, the necessity of addressing sexting and pornography, and ensuring safe use of technology for children. Melissa emphasizes that it's never too late to start these essential conversations, providing practical advice for parents along the way.
For More Info on Melissa, visit mlktherapy.com
Instagram: askable_mama
Thank you for joining us for a A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast now on Mental Health News Radio Network. This podcast is also available wherever you get your podcasts but I do suggest checking out Mental Health News Radio Network to find all your podcasts related to mental health.
Today’s guest is Reginald Reed, Author of The Day My Mother Never Came Home" A Memoir that plays out more like a true crime story. Reginald is also an accomplished professional in the Pharmaceutical industry. He holds a Master's Degree in Business and Global Marketing. He is also an advocate for mental health within the black community.
Thank you for joining us for a A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast now on Mental Health News Radio Network. This podcast is also available wherever you get your podcasts but I do suggest checking out Mental Health News Radio Network to find all your podcasts related to mental health. Today’s guest is Shari Kaplan, an expert in integrative mental healthcare and plant medicine and founder of Cannectd. Shari emphasizes blending traditional therapy with cutting-edge protocols like plant medicines, ketamine therapy, breathwork, and somatic practices. She is also the founder of the Can't Tell Foundation, which provides access to integrative care for those affected by trauma, PTSD, anxiety, depression and more. YouTube: Cannectd Wellness Facebook/Instagram: @cannectd
Thank you for joining us for a A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast now on Mental Health News Radio Network. This podcast is also available wherever you get your podcasts but I do suggest checking out Mental Health News Radio Network to find all your podcasts related to mental health. Today’s guest is James Huysman, Founder of the Toxic Abuse Relationship Network, a 501(c)(3) charity dedicated to bringing worldwide awareness and treatment to those whose emotional reality has been distorted by narcissistic abuse. Dr. Jamie has 30 years of experience in healthcare and media. He has developed celebrity foundations serving millions. His trauma informed clinical background has driven his passion to deal with this public health disaster in honor of his child and all children. TAR Resources: * TAR Anon * TAR Network Contact
Stress and It’s Gift to Us by Dr. Jamie Are you feeling overwhelmed, tired, anxious or frustrated? Everyone encounters stressful circumstances most every day. Stress is a natural reaction of your mind and body to external demands. Stress is the also the gateway to much worse states on our mind and our emotional health. We will explore how stress is actually essential to life and allows you an opportunity for individual growth and positive change. The key is how you believe, perceive and react to the various "less-than-desirable" circumstances of everyday life. This presentation will help you meet and greet the Stress Response to develop an approach and vital prevention force field to the slippery slopes of burnout and Compassion Fatigue. REGISTER FOR FREE EVENT!
Thank you for joining us for a A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast now on Mental Health News Radio Network. This podcast is also available wherever you get your podcasts but I do suggest checking out Mental Health News Radio Network to find all your podcasts related to mental health.
Today’s guest is Kendra Petty, Author of the True Crime Memoir, I Can't Believe I'm Not Dead: Escaping Abuse,A Cult, Attempted Murder and Other Insanities... A Story That Cannot Be True But it is. Far from your typical “memoir,” this is both an inspirational story of resilience, grit, and perseverance, as well as a jaw-dropping thriller that proves that some lives really are stranger than fiction.
Thank you for joining us for a A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast now on Mental Health News Radio Network. This podcast is also available wherever you get your podcasts but I do suggest checking out Mental Health News Radio Network to find all your podcasts related to mental health.
Today’s guest is Josh Halu, Founder of The Psychedelic Exchange (PsycheX) - Josh is also a West Point graduate and former Army Officer, with a massive mission that's near and dear to his heart - zero veteran suicides. psycheX is blending groundbreaking psychedelic therapies with traditional mental health care, offering fresh hope and innovative solutions.
Thank you for joining us for a A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast now on Mental Health News Radio Network. This podcast is also available wherever you get your podcasts but I do suggest checking out Mental Health News Radio Network to find all your podcasts related to mental health.
Today’s guest is Steve Wilson. Steve is the Author of "Teetering On A Tightrope, my bipolar journey," Steve has helped over 1000 people facilitating mental health programs and raising awareness of mental health and the inadequacy of government programs and the damage done by insurance companies when providing mental health care.
Thank you for joining us for a A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast now on Mental Health News Radio Network. This podcast is also available wherever you get your podcasts but I do suggest checking out Mental Health News Radio Network to find all your podcasts related to mental health.
Today’s guest is Gabrielle Pelicci, Author of the #1 Amazon Bestseller, “All this healing is killing me.” She is also a University Professor of Holistic Health with a doctorate in Transformative Studies at the California Institute of Integral Studies, with additional degrees in Psychology and Educational Technology from Columbia University. She was named one of the Top 100 Women of the Future in 2022 for her work in emerging technologies.
Thank you for joining us for a A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast now on Mental Health News Radio Network. This podcast is also available wherever you get your podcasts but I do suggest checking out Mental Health News Radio Network to find all your podcasts related to mental health.Today’s guest is Jana Wilson. Jana is an emotional healing educator, meditation teacher, retreat leader, public speaker, hypnotherapist, and founder of the Emotional Healing System. She is also the Author ofWise Little One, a prescriptive memoir.
That was Jana Wilson, emotional healing educator, hypnotherapist, Founder of the Emotional Healing System and Author of Wise little One For more information on Jana and where you can purchase her bookhere. Jana also contributed to Authentic Insider Magazine’s December 2023 issue. March’s issue of Authentic Insider is out. Check out Authentic Insider at traumasurvivorthriver.com as well as past episodes of A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast. If you haven’t already, please subscribe to my email list to get Authentic Insider Magazine in your inbox monthly.
Thank you for joining us for a A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast now on Mental Health News Radio Network. This podcast is also available wherever you get your podcasts but I do suggest checking out Mental Health News Radio Network to find all your podcasts related to mental health.
Today’s guest is Jennifer Chesak, Jennifer is the author of The Psilocybin Handbook for Women: How Magic Mushrooms, Psychedelic Therapy, and Microdosing Can Benefit Your Mental, Physical, and Spiritual Health. She is also an adjunct instructor at Belmont University where she teaches courses in journalism.
That was Jennifer Chesak, author of The Psilocybin Handbook for Women: How Magic Mushrooms, Psychedelic Therapy, and Microdosing Can Benefit Your Mental, Physical, and Spiritual Health. For more information on Jennifer and where you can purchase her book. Jennifer is also a monthly contributor to Authentic Insider Magazine. March’s issue of Authentic Insider is out. Check out Authentic Insider at traumasurvivorthriver.com to also get past episodes of A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast. If you haven’t already, please subscribe to my email list to get Authentic Insider Magazine in your inbox monthly.
Thank you for joining us for a A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast now on Mental Health News Radio Network. This podcast is also available wherever you get your podcasts but I do suggest checking out Mental Health News Radio Network to find all your podcasts related to mental health.
Today’s guest is Arleen Haeggquist. Motivated by the pains of her childhood, Alreen became a lawyer in order to stand up for victims of abuse. She founded her own firm, Haeggquist & Eck, LLP, in San Diego in 2008, which has helped hundreds of other women stand up for themselves. Alreen has challenged high-profile entities including The Salk Institute, Trader Joe’s, Kaiser Permanente, the San Diego Sheriff‘s Department, and a President-elect.
Alreen’s core message is that, as a society, we need to break the silence and help women stand up to their abusers. In 2023, she broke her own silence and published her story in the book, Fired Up: Fueling Triumph from Trauma.
That wasAlreen Haeggquist, Lawyer and Author of Fired Up, Fueling Triumph from Trauma. For more information on Alreen, check out the show notes. March’s issue of Authentic Insider is out. Check out Authentic Insider at traumasurvivorthriver.com. That’s TRAUMA SURVIVOR THRIVER-dot-com as well as past episodes of A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast. If you haven’t already, please subscribe to my email list to get Authentic Insider Magazine in your inbox monthly.
Thank you for joining us for a A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast now on Mental Health News Radio Network. This podcast is also available wherever you get your podcasts but I do suggest checking out Mental Health News Radio Network to find all your podcasts related to mental health.
Today’s guest is Tina Hamilton, an Inner Child Healing Coach & founder of The Healing Parent, where she works with women who are exhausted, burnt out, and frustrated in parenting, or life in general. She helps women uncover their deepest wounds and childhood messages that keep them living life in the margins, and provides strategies and resources they need to break generational cycles & live life in alignment with the vision they hold for themselves.
That was Tina Hamilton, an Inner Child Healing Coach & founder of The Healing Parent. For more information on Tina and the healing parent, visit https://www.healingparent.com/about. March’s issue of Authentic Insider is out. Check out Authentic Insider at traumasurvivorthriver.com. If you haven’t already, please subscribe to my email list to get Authentic Insider Magazine in your inbox monthly.
Thank you for joining us for a A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast now on Mental Health News Radio Network. This podcast is also available wherever you get your podcasts but I do suggest checking out Mental Health News Radio Network to find all your podcasts related to mental health.
Today’s guest is Martin Simms. Martin Simms is a neurosequential trauma recovery expert and Founder of Thrive Elite Academy, where they cultivate Therapeutic experiences through Sports & Exercise.
That was Martin Simms, Neurosequential trauma recovery expert and Founder of Thrive Elite Academy. For more information on Martin, check out the show notes. February’s issue of Authentic Insider is out. Check out Authentic Insider at traumasurvivorthriver.com. If you haven’t already, please subscribe to my email list to get Authentic Insider Magazine in your inbox monthly
Thank you for joining us for a A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast now on Mental Health News Radio Network. This podcast is also available wherever you get your podcasts but I do suggest checking out Mental Health News Radio Network to find all your podcasts related to mental health.
Today’s guest is Merle Yost. Merle is a psychotherapist, author of six books, including his latest, Facing the Truth of Your Life. He has been a private practice therapist for over 30 years and specializes in trauma, men sexually abused as children, gynecomastia, and bi and gay heterosexually married men.
After growing up in a cult and being sexually abused as a child, his healing journey led him to help others claim their power and lives.
That was Merle Yost, psychotherapist and author of, Facing the Truth of Your Life. February’s issue of Authentic Insider is out. Check out Authentic Insider at traumasurvivorthriver.com. That’s TRAUMA SURVIVOR THRIVER-dot-com as well as past episodes of A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast. If you haven’t already, please subscribe to my email list to get Authentic Insider Magazine in your inbox monthly.
We will be back next week when I speak with Neurosequential specialist, Martin Simms about the important roles youth sports coaches play in recognizing trauma.
Thank you for joining us for a A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast now on Mental Health News Radio Network. This podcast is also available wherever you get your podcasts but I do suggest checking out Mental Health News Radio Network to find all your podcasts related to mental health
Today’s guest is Erin Vandermore. She is the Founder of Age of Uncertainty Coaching where she is a wellness coach, a Licensed Therapist, Mental Health Counselor, Growth Mindset Guru and Author of several empowering books and thought-provoking reflection journals.
That was Erin Vandermore, Founder of Age of Uncertainty Coaching , Licensed Therapist, Mental Health Counselor, Growth Mindset Guru and Author. For more on Erin and to purchase any of her books, check out the show notes. February’s issue of Authentic Insider is out. Check out Authentic Insider at traumasurvivorthriver.com. That’s TRAUMA SURVIVOR THRIVER-dot-com as well as past episodes of A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast. If you haven’t already, please subscribe to my email list to get Authentic Insider Magazine in your inbox monthly.
We will be back next week when I speak with Author, and Psychotherapist,Merle Yost when we discuss the importance of boundaries.
Thank you for joining us for a A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast now on Mental Health News Radio Network. This podcast is also available wherever you get your podcasts but I do suggest checking out Mental Health News Radio Network to find all your podcasts related to mental health
Today’s guest is Dr. Victoria Johnson. Dr. Jonson is a well-known physician in the practice of aesthetic medicine. She has pioneered many state-of-the-art laser procedures and surgeries and has helped guide the field for more than twenty years. Dr. Johnson is a published author who just recently released her book, From Trophy Wife to Cosmetic Surgeon.
That was Dr. Victoria Johnson, Aesthetic Surgeon and Author of From Trophy Wife to Cosmetic Surgeon.
For more information on Victoria, check out the show notes. January’s issue of Authentic Insider is out. Victoria has also contributed to January’s issue of Authentic Insider Magazine which you can also find in the show notes. Check out Authentic Insider at traumasurvivorthriver.com. That’s TRAUMA SURVIVOR THRIVER-dot-com as well as past episodes of A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast. If you haven’t already, please subscribe to my email list to get Authentic Insider Magazine in your inbox monthly.
I wanted to take a moment to share a fantastic podcast, "Firebreathing Kittens is an actual play oneshot podcast with various tabletop role playing games with a season-long plot. Because there's a beginning and an end to each week's story, you can start at any episode. Every week has a different combination of four from the same rotating cast group of people. Join Firebreathing Kittens as they solve detective mysteries, attempt comedic banter, and enjoy friendship."
We will be back next week when I speak with Erin Vandermore when we discuss Eye Movement Desensitization and Reprocessing or EMDR, an effective trauma therapy modality .
Welcome, I’m Lorilee Binstock and this is “A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast.”
Thank you for joining us for a A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast now on Mental Health News Radio Network. This podcast is also available wherever you get your podcasts but I do suggest checking out Mental Health News Radio Network to find all your podcasts related to mental health.https://trophywifetocosmeticsurgeon.com/
Today’s guest is Cindy Benezra. Cindy is the Author of Under the Orange Blossoms. She is a speaker, entrepreneur, philanthropist and sexual abuse survivor and advocate who is passionate about bringing awareness to the impact of sexual trauma through meaningful conversations and system-changing discussions.
We will be back next week when I speak with Dr. Victoria Johnson, Author of "From Trophy Wife to Cosmetic Surgeon" when we discuss how she survived abuse, and went from a trophy wife to become a surgeon.
Welcome, I’m Lorilee Binstock and this is “A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast.”
Happy New Year and welcome back folks. Thank you for joining us for a A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast now on Mental Health News Radio Network. This podcast is also available wherever you get your podcasts but I do suggest checking out Mental Health News Radio Network to find all your podcasts related to mental health.
Today’s guest is Jacquelyn Aluotto, anti-trafficking specialist, victims advocate, filmmaker, among many titles. She is also the President of No Trafficking Zone. No Trafficking Zone is a non-profit organization dedicated to the prevention and elimination of human trafficking. Their mission is to disrupt and dismantle human trafficking by creating No Trafficking Zones that implement high-risk penalties and crimes for predators that prey on children and adults. Jacquelyn’s gift for intersecting media, intelligence, technology, law enforcement, and community-based organizations, makes her valuable across many spectrums. Jacquelyn deploys these skills to prevent and combat commercial sexual exploitation, oppression, abuse, human trafficking, and sex crimes.
That was Jacquelyn Aluotto, anti trafficking specialist, victims advocate, filmmaker, and President of No Trafficking Zone. She is also the President of No Trafficking Zone. For more information on Jacquelyn and No Trafficking Zone, please check out the show notes. January’s issue of Authentic Insider is out with a piece from our Prosecutor’s Point of View on Human Trafficking. Check out Authentic Insider at traumasurvivorthriver.com. That’s TRAUMA SURVIVOR THRIVER-dot-com as well as past episodes of A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast. If you haven’t already, please subscribe to my email list to get Authentic Insider Magazine in your inbox monthly.
We will be back next week when I speak with Cindy Benezra about surviving
sexual trauma by a family member.
Thank you for joining us for a A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast now on Mental Health News Radio Network. This podcast is also available wherever you get your podcasts but I do suggest checking out Mental Health News Radio Network to find all your podcasts related to mental health.
Today’s guest is Justin Woodbury, Victims of Abuse Advocate and Author of Sheltered but not Protected, A memoir about a young boy growing up in the Independent Fundamentalist Baptist Church; the sexual, mental, and emotional abuse he experienced; how he escaped; and his journey to find healing and forgiveness.
We will be taking a break for the holidays and will be coming back strong into the new year with a new episode when we discuss Human Trafficking with No Trafficking Zone President and Human Trafficking Advocate, Jacquelyn Aluotto.
P.S. I wanted to get more into the conspiracy to kill in the podcast but didn't. I do highly suggest, checking out the book,Sheltered but not Protected
Thank you for joining us for a A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast now on Mental Health News Radio Network. This podcast is also available wherever you get your podcasts but I do suggest checking out Mental Health News Radio Network to find all your podcasts related to mental health..
Today’s guest is Christina Wood, CEO and Founder of Woods Hypnotherapy and Coaching. Christina is a licensed Rapid Transformational Therapist®, Clinical Hypnotherapist, Empowerment Coach, and Reiki Master. She combines her background in corporate leadership along with her life experiences in dealing with trauma and abandonment to empower other women to trust their intuition and set themselves free of self-doubt.
We will be back next week when I speak with Victims of Abuse Advocate and Author of Sheltered but not Protected, Justin Woodbury when we discuss his story of abuse in a cult-like church and exposing his abuser.
Thank you for joining us for a A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast now on Mental Health News Radio Network. This podcast is also available wherever you get your podcasts but I do suggest checking out Mental Health News Radio Network to find all your podcasts related to mental health.
Today’s guest is Donna Piper, a former Dance Movement Psychotherapist and certified Akashic Record Healer with 20 years of experience in guiding her clients to heal unresolved trauma to create healthy relationships .She is on a mission toassist women in healing past relationship trauma by tapping into the wisdom of the Akashic Records. Through this transformative process, emotional wounds are uncovered and released, in order to empower and reclaim personal power, cultivate self-love, and create healthier and fulfilling relationships.
That was Donna Piper, certified Akashic Record Healer. For more information on her, check out the show notes. November’s issue of Authentic Insider is out. Donna contributed to October’s issue. Check out Authentic Insider at traumasurvivorthriver.com. That’s TRAUMA SURVIVOR THRIVER-dot-com as well as past episodes of A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast. If you haven’t already, please subscribe to my email list to get Authentic Insider Magazine in your inbox monthly.
I will be speaking at the Wonderland Conference in Miami November 9th - 11th. The Premier Global Event for psychedelics, Mental Health and Longevity. If you are looking for discounted tickets, check out the show notes for the link and use Lorilee20 for your promo code
We will be back next week when I speak with Christina Wood, CEO and Founder of Woods Hypnotherapy and Coaching when we discuss self-sabotage, why we do it and how to break the cycle.
Thank you for joining us for a A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast now on Mental Health News Radio Network. This podcast is also available wherever you get your podcasts but I do suggest checking out Mental Health News Radio Network to find all your podcasts related to mental health.
Today’s guest is April Pride, Host of the High Guide Podcast. April is Founder at Of Like Minds, a brand for women seeking recreational psychedelic healing. April developed The High Guide to market products and brands she creates, including Of Like Minds. April Pride was Diagnosed with Attention deficit hyperactivity disorder or ADHD in her late 30s, and changed her life in every way.
That was April Pride, Host of the High Guide Podcast and Founder at Of Like Minds. For more information about April and her podcast as well as Of Like Minds, check out the show notes. November’s issue of Authentic Insider is out. April contributed to August’s issue. Check out Authentic Insider at traumasurvivorthriver.com. That’s TRAUMA SURVIVOR THRIVER-dot-com as well as past episodes of A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast. If you haven’t already, please subscribe to my email list to get Authentic Insider Magazine in your inbox monthly.
If you haven’t heard, I will be speaking at the Wonderland Conference in Miami November 9th - 11th. The Premier Global Event for psychedelics, Mental Health and Longevity. Are you curious to learn what Wonderland Conference has to offer, But struggling to make it out to Miami? They have a scholarship program designed to help those facing economic challenges of members of underrepresented communities, and the next generation of our leaders. You can apply by filling out the application here. The deadline is Oct 30.
We will be back next week when I speak with Donna Piper, when we discuss Embracing self-love, a catalyst for relationship transformation.
Thank you for joining us for a A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast now on Mental Health News Radio Network. This podcast is also available wherever you get your podcasts but I do suggest checking out Mental Health News Radio Network to find all your podcasts related to mental health.
Today’s guest is Winnie Wang, A Trauma informed acupuncturist, Author of Honoring Darkness, and her recent book, Unlocking Light, She is also a Reiki and Shamanic Tao healer and shadow worker. Winnie recently founded The Compassionate Transformation Community, a nonprofit dedicated to the mental wellness of youth and their parents.
For more information about Winnie and her books and her non-profit, check out the show notes. October’s issue of Authentic Insider is out. Check out Authentic Insider at traumasurvivorthriver.com. as well as past episodes of A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast. If you haven’t already, please subscribe to my email list to get Authentic Insider Magazine in your inbox monthly.
We will be back next week when I speak with April Pride, when we discuss ADHD and the power of psychedelics.
Welcome, I’m Lorilee Binstock and this is “A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast.”
Thank you for joining us for a A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast now on Mental Health News Radio Network. This podcast is also available wherever you get your podcasts but I do suggest checking out Mental Health News Radio Network to find all your podcasts related to mental health.
Today’s guest is Jessa De La Morena, Author of The Great Reconnection. Jessa survived an aggressive cancer and then began her road to helping others on their healing journeys. She created a global initiative in her app called "U Are The Hero".
Jessa also contributed to September’s issue of Authentic Insider Magazine which you will also find in the show notes. October’s issue of Authentic Insider is out. Check out Authentic Insider at traumasurvivorthriver.com. That’s TRAUMA SURVIVOR THRIVER-dot-com as well as past episodes of A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast. If you haven’t already, please subscribe to my email list to get Authentic Insider Magazine in your inbox monthly.
We will be back next week when I speak with Winne Wang, when we discuss the power of acupuncture and its ability to release trauma blocks.
Welcome, I’m Lorilee Binstock and this is “A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast.”
Thank you for joining us for a A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast now on Mental Health News Radio Network. This podcast is also available wherever you get your podcasts but I do suggest checking out Mental Health News Radio Network to find all your podcasts related to mental health.
Today’s guest is Susan Justice, Author of Children who Dance in the Rain, which relays the importance of equality and mutual respect among all children, encouraging them to see the world and their peers through a lens of compassion and acceptance. Susan is a lawyer and a legal children’s advocate who co-founded South Asians Against Childhood Abuse.
Welcome, I’m Lorilee Binstock and this is “A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast.”
Thank you for joining us for the Premiere of Season 5 and I am proud to announce that we are now a part of the Mental Health News Radio Network. This podcast is also available wherever you get your podcasts but I do suggest checking out Mental Health News Radio Network to find all your podcast related to mental health.
Can we just admit that parenting is hard? For many, there are just as many lows as there are highs when it comes to parenting. And unfortunately, Parental depression is a pervasive problem, and a large and growing body of research shows that it is a major risk factor for difficulties in a child’s life. One of my favorite topics when it comes to healing is Psychedelics, so I am very excited about my first guest of the season to talk about Moms on Mushrooms.
My guest today is Tracey Tee, Founder of Moms on Mushrooms.Tracey has been an active voice for moms for more than a decade, first co-creating and starring in the nationally touring cult-hit comedy show for moms, The Pump and Dump Show. She simultaneously co-produced the Band of Mothers Podcast and served as co-founder and CEO of The Pump and Dump Show’s umbrella brand, Band of Mothers Media. During her own journey with psilocybin or magic mushrooms, amidst the pandemic, Tracey began to feel called to support moms in a deeper and more meaningful way. In 2022, she launched an online microdosing course created exclusively for moms called M.O.M., “Moms on Mushrooms.”
This is a LIVE replay (edits made due to technical difficulties) of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast which aired Tuesday, June 13th, 2023 at 1130am ET on Fireside Chat. Today’s guest is Aaron Johnson, Co-Founder of Holistic Resistance and Grief to Action and Creator of The Chronically Under Touched Project.
Lorilee Binstock 00:00:43 Welcome. I'm Lorilee Binstock and this is A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast. Thank you so much for joining me live on Fireside Chat, where you can be a part of the conversation as my virtual audience. I'm Lorilee Binstock, your host. Everyone has an opportunity to ask me or our guest questions by requesting to hop on stage or sending a message in the chat box. I will try to get to everybody, but I do ask that everyone be respectful. Today's guest is Aaron Johnson, creator of the chronically under touched project and cofounder of the holistic resistance and grief to action. Aaron, thank you so much for joining me today. Can you hear me okay?
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:01:50 It's good to
Lorilee Binstock 00:01:52 Hello, Aaron?
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:01:52 it's little soft, but I can hear you better now.
Lorilee Binstock 00:01:54 Oh, you can hear let me make sure you can hear me just fine. Is
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:01:59 I'll get you now. Yeah. That's great.
Lorilee Binstock 00:02:00 Oh, good. Good. Good. Awesome. Well, thank you so much for joining me today. I really appreciate it.
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:02:06 No. It's good to be here.
Lorilee Binstock 00:02:07 I I know it's it's you typically, we have our shows on Wednesdays, but, you know, it's one of those weeks where if my kids lost last day last day of school tomorrow, and I didn't realize they'll be getting out extra early because they typically get out early on Wednesdays. I am very excited to have you on, and I wanna talk a little bit about the chronically under touch project. Could you talk a little bit about that?
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:02:32 Yeah. It's probably one of the most ambitious projects I have entered into over the last seven years, and it's a project that's really tracking. Right now, I'm focusing on African heritage men because of their how they're targeted, but we've expanded and worked with a lot of folks, but it's really about tracking the magnitude, the impact of being chronically under touched. And how it bleeds into mental health. It bleeds into complication on the cassette and relationship spaces. It it it impacts folks in that are incarcerated, folks that can be arrested because of their chronic index trauma stories and how it manifest in their lives. And then how oppression kinda doubles down on that. And so the Crokonetouch project is me slowing down in community. What it means to build a comprehensive touch plan for a body in this context in this moment. I'm working heavily with this young black man, how we build a photonic comprehensive touch plan for them, and where where do they go? How do we build it? How do we get ahead of it? How do we even introduce the idea? So it's a it's a big project, but it's it's really profoundly impacting my life and the folks I'm able to work with.
Lorilee Binstock 00:03:44 Amazing. Well, can you talk what do you mean when you when you say chronically undertouched?
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:03:51 Yeah. So there's a couple ways we track it. I would say a big portion of population is chronic and in touch, but we with the spectrum that was all extreme, my first kind of birth the phrase and kind of really understood the magnitude of what happens to a body and to individual that is crunching a touch. It was a young man I was working with seven years ago, and he Me and him were in this, like, mentorship. I was mentoring him, and I was trying to bring him to a space of balance. And we were in arguments almost daily. I remember sitting down with him one day trying to find a groundings base. And I said, you know, when was the last time you had thoughtful platonic touch over the last twelve months for three minutes? Hey, Seth there. Now maybe I'm sitting there and going, I can't think of three minutes in the last twelve months that I've received thoughtful, photonic touch. And as extreme as that might actually feel, that was actually pretty normal. For a lot of folks I met thereafter. Is that being under touch on that extreme level? You can't even think of three minutes of thoughtful platonic continuous touch, that would be that would be a pretty heavy level. And I would say, you know, average person would need for just nervous and balance fifteen minutes of thoughtful but tonic touch, and many folks qualify there of not getting that. So there's a way of just tracking the the impact of on different bodies, different demographics, the economic levels, the impact. But the for him, I would say, anyone that's in that level of three minutes a year or less, that's extreme, but that's that's chronic, and that's serious. And we need to get to get ahead of that and build some thinking around it.
Lorilee Binstock 00:05:33 And do you mean hugging, hand holding? Is it consecutive?
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:05:39 Yeah. We want I mean, ideally, is consecutive. Right? Ideally, we are dealing with folks that it's it's it's continuous for three minutes. I mean, most hugs are five to eight seconds, and so it would take a lot of hugs to get to the three minute mark. So I think for me being able to realize hand holding is one of our common entry points for a lot of the people I work with, we just practice
Lorilee Binstock 00:05:49 Mhmm.
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:06:01 simple hand holding and and holding attention to our bodies in that process. So handhold is a common way. We often have a sit and hold hands because the trauma story of walking and holding hands is black sis, and and the chronic ways is really complicated. My culture is still sitting and dropping to our bodies in more meditative space is the most common way we have been able to build thoughtful touch plan for folks, but it also goes shoulder to shoulder back to back, cuddling all those are advanced, but we we start with the handholding typically in our in our program.
Lorilee Binstock 00:06:29 I wonder, like, as as an adult, I'm thinking. Am I am I am I touched for three minutes at a time? And and it's interesting when you you talk about touch and how important it is because, you know you know, when your your child is born or when a child is born, they, you know, most I mean, not necessarily hospitals, but, you know, let's say, for me, I worked with Adula, and the first thing they they talk about is putting the child on your body. How important it is to
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:06:56 Yep.
Lorilee Binstock 00:06:59 to have that release of oxytocin. And and I guess that's that's the same way as adults, but we don't really think about it that way.
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:07:07 No. Unfortunately, and and working full time and having bigger trans players can push us out of even though it's in the magnitude of what happens over time.
Lorilee Binstock 00:07:16 Wow. Well, I wanna get back to that a little bit more, but you are also the cofounder of the holistic resistance and grief to action.
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:07:25 Yes.
Lorilee Binstock 00:07:26 Can you talk a little bit about the holistic resistance and and your purpose?
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:07:27 Yeah. Yeah. Holistic resistance is the umbrella org. It really supports our nonprofit arm of grief to action, and it definitely is helping fund and organize the cut project, holistic resistance is our oldest organization, and it does some specific things. Holistic resistance is about dismancing oppression at every level. We realized that we can't take it all on, but we really wanted to notice that oppression hits the the nervous system hits the body, hits the community, hits you know, so we realized I remember I was sitting in the car, and we were talking with the fellow activists, and they were expressing there in college at the time was like, Erin, I'm doing all the right things. I'm I'm going to college. I'm trying to and the impression still comment It's like I'm holistically oppressed and I remember looking at them going. We have to holistically resist, and we both froze. Like, Wait a minute. What did you say? I said, holistically resist. Write down. Write down. Write down. Hosting resist. And we really thought about it for a couple of months and said, like, what does it mean to resist with our money? To resist with our care for the environment, to resist with our relationships, to resist with how we eat our food, not that we can nail it every single time, but it's tracking all the ways that Oh, question can come for us how do we push back? And so, mostly, holistic resistance is a the economic structure is it teaches workshops. And we do consulting. We do one on one programs, and we do facilitate training programs. And so in that, that's kind of the the entry point into this mounting oppression, but we also do song circles, which is a profound place for us to be reclaimed the voice. And we do a lot of encouragement around natural building, minimalist living, I live in a tiny house. The host of resistance says, how can we find simple, practical, accessible ways to build village around this mounting oppression? That's kind of the the the mission statement and the marching orders that we we we walk and go forth with holistic resistance.
Lorilee Binstock 00:09:24 Well, how do you do that? I can imagine. That's a that's a
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:09:27 Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:09:28 in in in the world we're living right now. And right now, it it that's quite a challenge and and and quite a mission.
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:09:36 Yeah. Yeah. It will we will we wanna be practical about it. Right? We're not we're not gonna be on every day to we I I remember I was in film school, and I was talking to my film director, and we were like, well, March the worst is, like, twenty on years ago. Walmart's the worst. You don't wanna get anything from Walmart. Now they're like what? By the time we're like, Walmart's the worst, and he's like, you know, but they have cameras or really good prices. As a radical filmmaker, go buy a camera from Walmart and make a good documentary, even if you're taking Walmart, use the system at times, when you have to. Right? You're you're a, you know, a broke college student. You need to make a camera. Don't not go to Walmart and buy your camera. Go buy it, and then go make your bomb film, and then make that film Guirteenth in Walmart.
Lorilee Binstock 00:10:25 Yep. Well, you know, that's interesting my friends used to because my that I have friends who have issues with certain companies, and they won't they won't purchase, but there are those moments where they're just like they have to. Right?
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:10:35 I have a small footprint. Yeah. You know, you can be in apartment. You can be in the house, but the idea is that we're just we're working constantly orient ourselves.
Lorilee Binstock 00:10:38 Mhmm.
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:10:44 As accessible to be aware of oppression. When we can step forward and make a big move, we do. I would say if you have five million dollars, donate it if you have five dollars on it, it's all towards the same dismantling. Is we do what we are able to do and not try and get too much to a high stance. So I just just just really being able to track and just notice how a person shows up and how you can live a lifestyle continuously to adjust against it when it makes sense for your nervous system and your lifestyle that that you can do. So that's the That's the I'm not here to tell people to sell their house and move to off grid spaces in order to be host resistance. It's not at all. It's more about finding that space of, like, I wanna be a part I wanna make sure I'm resisting, not just in my marching, not just in my donations, not just in my cow, obviously, my kids, but we're trying doing all the ways I possibly can. We're trying to have a a more holistic approach to a dismantling no question.
Lorilee Binstock 00:11:34 Well, I wanted to talk about and you focus on African Americans specifically African American men and the LGBTQ
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:11:43 Mhmm.
Lorilee Binstock 00:11:45 plus communities. Would that is that something that you thought
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:11:50 Yes.
Lorilee Binstock 00:11:54 was extremely important to you?
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:11:57 It's the hardest group to reach for often times with it comes to building out ecosystems of any kind of resistant structure. Those that are targeted by oppression oftentimes have less money resource, less time. They're they're really busy surviving oppression. So trying to focus on them as a group we support and allied ship with, we found to be a good starting point. How we supported white folks in this work, of course, how we supported Latinx folks in this work and all of the people at low majority we definitely have, but we find that Even though I'm a black man, I will have three gatherings in a given year, and two be African heritage ones, and the the ones that are the biggest economic investment oftentimes gathering people to low majority in African agriculture specifically just because they have to, like, get childcare and navigate oppression and travel costs country, like, there's a way that we have to just track them. And so I always start with the group that I find is oftentimes the hardest access to. If I say a cuddle party and say, anywhere in California, I'll get thirty white folks to show up to that event. If I say cut a party and say black men, We got you know, we'll get five, and that's a crowd. Right? And we'll get eight, and that's that's you're winning because it's such a a targeted space. So I know I can have a club authority in the prom anywhere in the West Coast and have thirty white women show up.
Lorilee Binstock 00:13:15 Yeah.
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:13:24 And, one, maybe queer, personal global majority, and maybe African heritage. And I could also have a couple of partner I'm not gonna hardcore for, and I'll get five black men going out. I'm gonna try this out. This seems kinda strange because I've never seen it before. I'm gonna try, like, we just try and track those groups if this becomes a high calorie burn from the show up and believe it happens because we see more if I have a boxing club or a basketball club or a wrestling club or some kind of after kind of aggressive sport, we can crowd that with black male bodies and and and male bodies. But when you say tenderness, you wanna say closeness, you wanna say cuddles,
Lorilee Binstock 00:13:37 Mhmm.
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:13:56 cuddles and black men by us on Google, but now now you're talking about things you cannot Google. I can Google black men even be executed in the street, but I cannot Google Tusa black men sitting in a public space just tentatively being with each other in the United States. Outside this country is more common, but in the United States, Now you're talking about it really bad o'clock.
Lorilee Binstock 00:14:15 Well, how do you reach out to those groups, the LGBT groups, and the African American men specifically for something of, like, a cuttle party, and I wanna get to that too. I wanted to know more about the the cuddle party, but how are you reaching out?
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:14:29 Yeah. Yeah. So holistic existence was born out of mentorship program. So we were mentoring black men. So I already had a critical mass of black men that I had mentioned over the years. And so I kind of started with those folks that I already were working with, and my mentorship group was more about, like, how to keep them out of jail, how to get them jobs, how to get them cars, how to get them, like, this but, you know, their your feet under them to keep going into society. So that was a that kinda that that is a crowded field. When you say mentorship, that is the actual profile. Credit field. So then I'm not filled where you got them all in one space. This organically from the years of doing this work, I mentor for almost fifteen years before I birthed, holistic resistance. When I did that, I had a little bit of a a color profile, and then I in in touring. So I'm on tour right now. So I'm traveling. Like, tonight, I'm flying to Colorado. I'll be in Denver, and I'm going after after Denver four days, I'll be in North Carolina from North Carolina back in Los Angeles. Working with three black men project with Resma, Menacom. And and so for me, I am I am literally going to Denver. I'm getting three black men to connect with. The East Coast, I get twenty. Then I go LA up, but I get a hundred and twenty hopefully. Right? So I I'm really going to where they're gathering in presenting my my idea and a practice, and and out of a hundred men, you'll get ten up. Like, I'm into it. And oftentimes, who have been a big ally is black women. Black women have had been partnered with black men. They're they're hearing about my project. They're going, my husband needs to talk to you. My son needs to talk to you. My my brother has talked to you. So black women have been by far the biggest supporters of the Kroger Touch project, and, also, other folks are in, like, mixed relationships.
Lorilee Binstock 00:16:00 Mhmm.
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:16:10 I just talked to a person who's in my silently treat this weekend. That says, I have a partner. He's dark, but he's not out there. He's just Latin American, but his dark I see his Tucano. I didn't advise Tucano, and he's dark, and he could use his program. So there's a way that a lot of partners are coming to me. I I I I think that would be if I would say that what's the secret ingredient to making it work right now is black women. Black women are are really the champions of spreading the word. I'm getting more text and calls and emails from black women. And about their partners and or or or from the black man because their partner, you need to call you need to email him there. She email the cut project. It does stop getting this support, and it's really helpful because I think these black men are showing up really wanting something like this, but it's never seen in it available.
Lorilee Binstock 00:16:56 Wow. Wow. That's amazing. Do you go after other organizations or companies to try to promote this?
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:17:06 Yeah. So I'm I'm hitting the bat everybody. But, yes, So I work with because the holistic resistance, we do a lot of consulting work with, like, yoga studios, and we work with just different orgs throughout the last ten years or seven years, almost seniors. And so I'm constantly letting them know that I'm available to offer this project consulting work. And so the three men three black men project in Los Angeles is the biggest collaboration, I have to date with the ResMA being one of the, you know, New York Times best selling author of grandmother's hands. And so this is the biggest I would say he's the biggest, like, Allyship person that's been, like, I wanna back this. I wanna support this. I wanna join. Unless you come in let invite you into our conference. So I would say, yes. That would be our biggest. I I just talked to a couple of folks that sent me contacts from folks in Denver, actually, that some retired NFL players that wanna talk to me about this project as well. And I'm really excited talking to folks that have been you know, on this, like, perform at the highest level of athleticism in football. That's, like, the the biggest native of the black brute, you know, narrative to see how they can think about tenderness football is like the opposite of tinnitus. So talking to retired NFL players would be one of my goals. So I I don't think I'll ever join or or collab with NFL because we're kind of the the poor offices of each other. But folks that have kind of retired or or or left that system, I'm really interested in talking to them. So I'm really used to talking about folks that are retired from
Lorilee Binstock 00:18:21 Yeah.
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:18:31 these high levels of aggression to think about where is the tenderness in their experience and how do they build that up and how does their personas athlete hurt or hinder their Tinder photonic experience with the black men.
Lorilee Binstock 00:18:44 What about colleges? I feel like our schools Is that also something that you're reaching out to?
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:18:54 Yeah, colleges are huge. I haven't had a big success in Uniti, but I think this is a matter of time once I get a good like, contacts into the college that thought they have that that space, like a good sorority or a group, or people that really are thinking about this stuff. But I haven't made big context for colleges yet, but that would be a great I imagine that'd be a great place to drop into because of the the age bracket that the challenge of the colleges is that the ecosystem is Pacific. You know, they they have a Pacific way to enter those spaces. And so I'm trying to find the the most freely liberating way to enter to a college. But, yeah, I think colleges are gonna be a great demographic to target here soon.
Lorilee Binstock 00:19:29 Yeah. I would think so. And, you know, I wanted to talk about, like, DI, our diverse equity inclusion, And I I know that you kind of you kind of work around that anti racism work. And and going back to schools, you know, actually, my daughter's school. She's in elementary school.
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:19:49 Mhmm.
Lorilee Binstock 00:19:53 They actually have a DI representative at their school. Do you think that that Yeah. I know. It's really cool. It's it's it's she's been there for several years. She's amazing.
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:20:00 Wow.
Lorilee Binstock 00:20:06 And I know that you kinda talk about some common mistakes that companies make. So I kinda wanna talk a little bit about that, like, common mistakes that companies make with doing DAI and anti racism work.
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:20:11 Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:20:18 But I also kinda I'm I'm curious to what what you think about hap hap schools doing it as well.
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:20:23 Yeah. Yeah. I work with a lot of like, I work with Oakland Unified multiple schools in their districts. So I work with Palm Springs. I work with a lot of schools over the years. Schools are amazing, first of all. And challenging when it comes to the eye space. It's a very evolving industry in Howard. It's a powerful place that we transform young folks and teachers' environment, and it's also a place where you have specific limitations. But one of the things I would say when it comes to schools and common mistakes, that schools can make or we should be watching for as parents and as participants, and then also, like, organizations that are, like, doing DI work where they can oftentimes stumble. I think school specifically is DI work is probably one of the most sacred places to do it if I can even say that out loud because students, minds are being shaped. And so being having a diverse and thoughtful curriculum, having a classroom that is tracking all the bodies in there and all the people in all identities, and there is is is is a high task coming out of, like, the last twenty years, but it's an important task to have. The thing I think schools make how those mistake was oftentimes what what frame is a mistake is they're oftentimes reactionary. So they'll oftentimes call in a DI person after the harm is done, and the oftentimes fight for budget after damage is done. And that's that's kinda common in most industries, but in schools, it feels particularly painful. You could talk about young young combines oftentimes and they're young experience. And so it feels really like it's it's always a eighty percent time is reactionary. So there's some kind of way that a a teacher or a district gets tune some of the mistakes until they get they get invited to a big conversation. They come in with it. Every once in a while, we get some schools that wanna get ahead of it, but generally speaking, it's a reactionary. So I think one of the first things I think is that it has to be framed more as a essential part of the whole educational experience, and that's what that has to it has to have damage before I respond. So that's what comments that I see. The second thing I would say is they demand help us require the people to get trainings. And I think that's important because the teachers already overworked a lot, and it's hard for them to show up to things. But I think there's a way to give staff options to leave, the AI training means if they don't have the capacity to be there. I see that because when you force your audience to be there, they're just going through the motions. And I rather have five teachers that are hearing, fighting, ready to go than tin there, like, on their laptops trying to figure how to not be in the room. Because this is life saving work. This is like CPR. If we're gonna do CPR and you're gonna be in your laptop and someone has a specialty in your classroom, you know, like, what happened? There are students that are that are losing their lives on multiple levels because they don't have a full comprehensive support around their identities and their experience and their education experience in a very vulnerable time. And so for me, I feel like the urgency oftentimes is a there's a song I remember seeing as It says there's a fire in the mountain, no one seems to be on the run. That's how I feel oftentimes that I smell the smoke. I see the fire, but it was relaxed. Until the fire gets so big. It's so, you know, starts taking lives, and we start getting get get excited by it. So I'm like, I I wanna see us
Lorilee Binstock 00:23:31 Close.
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:23:36 get prepared before the smoke is in the air. And so that's the thing that I often will will encourage. The last thing I'll say that often's a common mistake, and I I say this often, but people will kinda go past this quickly, and that is speed. I think people underestimate how much time it takes to shift the culture at a school in a classroom. And oftentimes time also means more money, but I would say that it's better to do a methodical, thorough DI experienced in a weekend to solve thirty years of dysfunction. So I think the realistic of time makes sense. If anyone wanted to lose, like, fifty pounds in a gym, they don't go to the gym in a week, and they go, hey. I got a, you know, important date next week. If you didn't get me in this gym and workout, lose fifty pounds. And you train them, but, like, get out of here. I'm not a surgeon. This is it takes it takes months, a bunch of years to drop that kind of improvement on the body or shift in your in your whatever you're doing. And I think DI, all the same category we have energetic a lot to burn off our our our move through our systems, shape us, and we don't have that kind of investment. There's a there's a it's kind of an unbalance of how much time it takes to really heal and notice and then start building comprehensive, custom healing practice for that school, and that's the disconnect in that region.
Lorilee Binstock 00:24:49 Absolutely. I think that that you're you're right. I feel like in in a lot of places, having having a DEI representative come in would be very much reactionary. So I do feel fortunate because I I think they they designated my daughter's school's d EI rep years ago. And she's not she's just she's she there she goes into classrooms. There she brings in a topic,
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:25:16 Wow.
Lorilee Binstock 00:25:21 and it's and it's amazing. And so yes. And I think I think I I feel like and I live in a very progressive area. I'm in Washington, DC. Extremely progressive. And so there's there are a lot of companies that also have DEI
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:25:31 Okay.
Lorilee Binstock 00:25:36 reps, and and so I think that's that's
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:25:37 Mhmm.
Lorilee Binstock 00:25:39 really, really amazing. But in in other places of the country, obviously, there there's still some some struggle and some issues and actually really educating and talking about this this topic. Right?
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:25:57 Mhmm. Mhmm.
Lorilee Binstock 00:25:59 And and, you know, one of the questions I wanted to ask was what is the shaping force of the black experience in America. And and if we could also throw in, like, LGBTQ as well if that if if we can.
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:26:10 Mhmm. Yeah. Yeah. You know, when I look at the shaping force, that is when one of the things that has kept me up at night. You know, there's a way that you grow up and you see your parents and your family, and you just like our eating breakfast going to school, trying to find who runs faster, and and maybe you got a new belt or whatever is hot in your age at that time, and and you don't notice because you're you're eight, you're ten. You don't notice that you're being shaped. And so when I look at the black experience in America, I I try to say, what is what are the things I see that are shaping all of us towards a certain direction where events
Lorilee Binstock 00:26:37 Mhmm.
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:26:48 or structural things in place that that are thematically shaping black bodies in America. And one of the things I was tracking is because I'm forty one. It's been forty one in May. And one thing I track is that I went to school and high school in the nineties. Right? And what I track is there was a space where I remember living
Lorilee Binstock 00:27:05 Mhmm.
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:27:07 without handheld tech like cellphones, especially in high school didn't have a cell phone. Right? And so by the time I got into college and started having more tech, and when I saw store shipping forces, not just we got tech.
Lorilee Binstock 00:27:12 Yeah.
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:27:19 But it's how black bodies show up in tech. How are we not just in, like, a tech industry with a hold of a conversation, but on all the platforms with a common theme of how American culture wants to extract the black experience or show the black experience and how does that shake my experience. And one of the things I saw that's still intact is one of the biggest shaping forces of black male bodies in this culture is athleticism. And sports. And not just, like, oh, yeah. I play sports and high school. I play football too, but really is is how much America stops thinking about valuing black bodies after their bias are not used for either hypersexual activity or athletic activity. Once we get past that point, we stop thinking with a handful of, like, Obama who surprises, like, oh my goodness. It'd be president. When we saw this, like, immediate flash pushback against that narrative, it was a shift in our culture to see him become president habit for eight years because a whole different narrative of, like, how we we didn't celebrate the Obama like bodies, the Obama like thinkers as a collective culture. Obama did surprise and was interested about that as a shooting force. And black bodies is how Obama was the perfect timing wise, but the perfect ideal black body for America, and it was almost too much for America in hindsight. At the time, it was like, Greg, we're we're figuring it out. But I look at his skin tone. I look at his mixed heritage. I look at how how manageable black he was. Right? I have no beef with Obama about how manageable he was as opposed to if we darken his skin a bit. Right? By about five stage, how much that would impact if we added some some some some some language that wasn't so smooth. He had to get communicator that was that was very skilled. He couldn't he couldn't communicate at a level of other other presence that struggle with communication. He would never be president. He had to speak at a certain level. So but the the shaving force is is is when excellence shows up, it can't be too excellent. It can't be too aggressive. So and then there the shooting force is really finding that that that lack of attention for the black body after they they they can't be distracted from easily. So NFL, UFC, the NBA, still the dominant, male domination spaces. Now to expand a bit to the LGBTQ and the and the and the black celebrities to be a little bit outside of my lane, my own name, what happens is that it's echo. There's a complete echo when the black brute is to the dominant most invested in black body in America. It does start to set a similar path, a parallel path for that same community of algebraic community and transmedia as well, because transmedia is is is targeted by black sismin, partly because of our our trauma story around being full human beings too. And so there's a piece where black men had been told, I don't know if you've seen the sign that says I am a man. It was a sign, in fact, in nineteen sixty eight. Trash, nineteen sixties. I'm sure that's the actual date trash protests. The black women walking, you could find it's a very popular I am a man. And you might even heard the phrase that was said historically like, hey. Boy. My stuff. Hey. Boy. Boy was used as a way to diminish the black male. It's been so so black men fought really hard to be men. Like, I wanna be a full man. The same as I wanna be a full human. Right? I wouldn't be a brute I wouldn't be a full human. And then we get to this era now. We're like,
Lorilee Binstock 00:30:41 Right.
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:30:45 I don't wanna be a male or a female. I wouldn't be non binary. If you're holding that trauma story, you've fought just to be a man, that generation is really shook. Like, how dare you even how how how do you have the privilege of of of of of changing that identity? So so I've been working hard in the cut project to slow down a lot of cis black men around being allies, skillful allies, the civil to the trans community because of how we are weaponized against each other as a very tender tender relationship. And so there's a ripple effect that we're healing from. And I would say we're we're in the beginning stages of understanding the depth of how the parallels between being the black brute and not being seen as a complex emotional being intended, all that's not available. Weaponizes. There's a lot of things, but also can weaponize us against our trans community in a very, very dangerous way. And I've seen some major beautiful progress in that, but there's a way that we're still in the early stages of that. And and and that's also a place where I think we don't discuss enough. And I would say the shaping force, you know, in the LGBTQ community, is I have found the ecosystem is getting stronger. Over the last, say, ten years, let's say, stronger. There's there's government progress. There's financial investment, but there's also legislation flashback right now. So I think shipping force right now is political.
Lorilee Binstock 00:32:08 Yeah.
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:32:08 It is it is it is political and medical in a lot of ways. There's a way that we've made progress and it's been a clap somebody build, and the lines are being drawn right now. So I think it's a political shaping force. And I'm really invested into knowing how we can see how this kind of political fallout from East Coast to West, how we see bodies, and how we support TransUnion, and how we support the queer community and how we can build allieship because one of the things I constantly see is that we're we're we're we if we aren't careful, we can be a lot of internal collapsing of conflict with each other. And so that's why I'm constantly tracking when I was just at a an event where there's an amazing gathering of folks and it was a some cis black man having a hard time with trans black folks, and it's a white controlled space. And they're like, I don't know what to do. We finally got white people here. Now we have this really complicated conflict amongst the black folks. And this is not new, but it's actually a place where we can actually collapse in our progress of the overall progress because of those kind of intersections appealing that you take place. So saving force is gonna be how we can skillfully build village around these tender places where we have historical pain that's showing up but not being identified until someone tracks it well. So trauma tracking the black group narrative and and transphobia and homophobia and finding ways to land together is gonna be a shipping force, and it is a shipping force right now. Our ability to unify at the numbers we want to see legislation, to see the protection, the medical accessed everybody that is needed. And we have a history of medical damage to black bodies, and it's a we were living through these right now of medical attacks on trans bodies too and and queer bodies. So it's a it's a dance. So I think those are gonna be big chicken forces for us right now in this era.
Lorilee Binstock 00:33:49 Wow. Yeah. That's amazing. You know, a lot of things there that that that really came to mind. And then, you know, I do wanna mention, you know, an authentic insider in June's issue. We had our prosecutor's POV. Talk focus on trans in the law, and it's in it's insane how many anti trans bills or or
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:34:12 Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:34:12 being introduced, nearly five hundred,
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:34:15 Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:34:16 and and and that is it's surprising. And, you know, what what would your organization do or say about it about what is happening right now?
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:34:25 Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:34:28 Especially during Pride Month.
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:34:28 Well, it's interesting. Yeah. I think one of the things that's important is resources. You know, I find that when I look at our ability to move on legislation, our ability to support at the medical space that comes down to skillful ways to create capital, and organize that capital to to interrupt it. We live in a capitalist culture. So I realize right now, there's a a place where funding is needed. I think we have the heart. We have the that we have the the the direction you need to go, I think it's the fuel and that's the finance. And so for me, one of my biggest goals right now is to raise capital to port orgs that are doing it. So for me, I I think bodies on the ground is important. I think showing up and and March is important, but without a sustainable economic structure behind these orgs, we're gonna find ourselves stumbling in the fourth quarter, and I think we really need to be strong in the fourth quarter. So for me, the biggest thing right now is is is painful, and this is almost consistent across all the movements. Is that if you would've saw my email box, the weeks after George Floyd was killed publicly, And any time we have a massive death publicly, we get flooded with either donations or emails, and almost you can set a clock to a three months after the event. Its crickets again. And what's important is that has to be we can't feel resistance only when the media gets excited about it. I get invited to more speaking engagements, some more workshops in black history month, the entire of the year. But last time I checked, trans folks, queer folks, black folks were impressed twelve months out of the year. And so there's a way that I wanna make sure that we show up on the times that our time to show up for always a, you know, pride month or black history month, then And and when things happen in the media, that's important to notice it. But there's a way that the falloff does a lot like American. It's like a snacking snacking resistance. So I would say the most important thing we can do is not have snacks on our resistance, but have a full meal that we're growing from the ground. It takes twelve months to grow, and we cultivate, we water it as consistent. To me, I find that to be one of the biggest things we can do is not let media alone be our motivation to show up for folks that are being talking about oppression. That's one of the the the biggest tricks, I think, that that mainstream culture goes to us is we have so much content coming towards us that we don't understand the methodical work this looks like. It's that same sensation I feel like when I go in as a keynote at elementary school, and the kids are so excited coming in. I b box nice seeing. I tell them some good things. And I leave. You know what real superstars are? Those teachers that show up every single day,
Lorilee Binstock 00:37:15 Mhmm.
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:37:15 Monday through Friday, those are the ones we should get on our feet for every day, but it's like I see them every day. I think for granted. That's almost under his men's, like, the news comes in like a keynote speaker and goes, hey. How you doing? This thing has happened. Oh my goodness. How bad it is. Watch a couple times. And then we're all and then we all go away. And it but there's no consistency. Right? So for me, that's it. That's it. I'm on tour right now for seven months because methodical. This is methodical movement across the planet. To make sure that we're not just having flashpoint experiences. And so for me, I think that's the piece that I would say we're doing holistic resistance. We're we're encouraging folks. To take off their sprinting shoes, and put on their marathon shoes, drink a lot of water, and get ready for the marathon version of dismantling the system. That with capital, is gonna shift everything.
Lorilee Binstock 00:38:04 Yep. Constant education. Just constant constant education.
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:38:06 Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:38:08 Fantastic. Is there anything that you would like to share that I haven't touched on?
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:38:15 I will say you're talking about everything, but I would say have deep gratitude
Lorilee Binstock 00:38:19 No good.
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:38:20 around the cup project. And I would say the cup project is we're making a documentary. I kinda referred to earlier, but we're making a documentary. And I just wanna invite folks, like, you know, all the listeners and people in the community that you might know someone that might wanna be in the film or go through the programming document in the process, we're definitely looking for candidates to be in the film of that project, and that feels like an important way to scale the the unglobable images of of a comprehensive photonic touch plan for folks to be available. And I would say, we're also building some cut community workshops coming up next year, we are in the process of a land transfer in Northern California of a hundred eighty nine acres. It's off grid. This is beautiful, beautiful landscape of of nature here in North Carolina. You don't get enough to Anderson Valley, but it's this gorgeous gorgeous forest, and we wanna build relationship with black bodies, people to go majority, to be with the land, to be building a a a confident touch plan with nature. Because one of the things in touch plan is to be close to nature as well and singing. Now, miss singers for singers, singing for everybody. So singing connecting in nature next year because it might as well encourage folks that are interested in that to just, like, reach out, let us know what your interest is, and we'll give you more details on that event. But the cut communities are being built here hopefully, all got United States right now. We're starting to West Coast and we have land here, but West Coast cut community workshops and experiences. So I just wanna invite people to think about that with us, and And if you are unknown that I know DC is a lot of black folks, so unknown unknown black cuttle party isn't happening for black men, I don't know about, please let's talk about it because I'm getting as huge. And so on the West Coast, I think that we are building that that coalition, but it's still an un googled state. And That to me is one of the things I wanna make sure that we're able to make not rare anymore. So I just wanna name that as a a physical to my heart, and so I'm gonna be on your show and pick your path to me.
Lorilee Binstock 00:40:09 Well, thank you so much. And and can people find information on on all of the work you're doing at holisticresistance dot com.
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:40:19 Yeah. Holizabethses dot com and cut project dot org. Both of those are are places you can find me.
Lorilee Binstock 00:40:19 Is that right? Awesome. Yes. I do have holistic, resistance dot com scrolling right there, and where the fortune cookie is. You can actually click on that fortune cookie, and that will go ahead and send you to that website. But, Aaron, thank you so much for joining me. It's been a pleasure. This is our hundredth episode, so I'm I'm honored for you to be here today. So thank you.
Aaron JohnsonCut project 00:40:47 Thank you.
Lorilee Binstock 00:40:48 That was Aaron Johnson creator of the chronically under touched project and cofounder of the holistic resistance and grief to action For more information on Erin, you can click on that scrolling fortune cookie right there on your screen. We will also have it in the show notes. Also, June's issue of Authentic Insider is out. Checkout Authentic Insider at trauma survivor thriver dot com. That's trauma survivor thriver dot com. If you haven't already, please subscribe to my email list to get authentic insider magazine in your inbox monthly. Well, that wraps up season four of a trauma survivor, Thrivers podcast, but we'll be back in the fall for September in September for season five. Please sign up to our email list to get updates and follow me on social media, you can find those links at traumasurvivorthriver.com. I'm Lorilee Binstock. Again, thank you for being a part of the conversation and joining me for the hundredth episode. Hope to see you in the fall. Take care.
This is a LIVE replay of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast which aired Wednesday, June 7th, 2023 at 11:30am ET on Fireside Chat.
Today’s guest is Jessica Depatie, Executive Producer of Dark Night of Our Soul.
For more information about Jessica Depatie's work, visit https://www.shadowmedia.group/links.
Lorilee Binstock 00:00:35 Welcome. I'm Lorilee Binstock and this is A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast. Thank you so much for joining me live on Fireside chat where you can be a part of the conversation as my virtual audience. I am your host. Flor then stock. Everyone has an opportunity to ask me or our guest questions by requesting to hop on stage, but I do ask that everybody be respect Today's guest is Jessica Defeats executive producer of dark of our soul. She's also the host of shadow work library podcast. And she's is actually a shadow work educator, Jessica, thank you so much. For joining me today. Oh, I think I actually pop you off stage. Are you there?
Jessica Depatie 00:01:39 Hi. Can you hear me?
Lorilee Binstock 00:01:40 Hi. Yeah I could hear you. How are you? Thank you so much for joining me today.
Jessica Depatie 00:01:46 Thank you so much for having me and what's cool off where I'm all about this.
Lorilee Binstock 00:01:50 I know it it's actually really, really cool. You people can pop in and pop out and and listen to replay and join in on the conversation, which I really love because I I feel like a lot of people are interested in and taught and talking to a lot of my guests about you know, things that are this that they're doing how people are healing. And you you are a shadow work educator, which I think is really cool. And so I wanna learn more about that, but I also wanna know a little bit about your story and what got you into this work.
Jessica Depatie 00:02:19 Okay. Great. So wow where do we start? You know, it's interesting that we're having this conversation on your show, the trauma survivor podcast because my story isn't that remarkable, but I think it's a common I I think that's why it's worth sharing. The lack of
Lorilee Binstock 00:02:38 Absolutely.
Jessica Depatie 00:02:40 extravagant around it, and more the the universal story that
Lorilee Binstock 00:02:47 Yep.
Jessica Depatie 00:02:47 everybody has trauma, you know, and the documentary that we're working on right now, one of the experts, Anderson Todd, who is the assistant director of wisdom and consciousness studies out of you know, received Toronto. He says nobody gets out of the parking lot without putting dungeon in the car. Right?
Lorilee Binstock 00:03:02 I saw.
Jessica Depatie 00:03:04 And so... That is that is my story.
Lorilee Binstock 00:03:05 That was I was like that's so accurate.
Jessica Depatie 00:03:07 Yeah. And so my story. Is basically growing up I felt like there was a purpose to the trials that I would put myself in, You know? A lot of the traumatic experiences that when my experience happen to us. And it's kind of a fabric the fabric of our human experience. You know, challenges happen. And some are very remarkable in some, like mine are just like, you know, my mom was she's Korean, and she felt strange in a new country, And I adopted that feeling strange but in my own country, you know? And so the traumatic experience that I had was having a really strong platform that I'm
Lorilee Binstock 00:04:00 Mhmm
Jessica Depatie 00:03:58 not accepted that I am rejected and I would put myself in a lot of situations where I would reject people before it they rejected me, and that was a coping mechanism that I learned later on, by Yeah. For me, was some pretty severe bullying and like, isolation from about the fourth grade, the eighth grade and crystal it myself that I'm weird. I'm unwanted And so Yeah. I just realized in that experience now looking in hindsight and having that really affect me as an adult. I needed to look at what is this? You know? There aren't... There weren't a ton of resources. I Didn't even think I needed a resource. To resolve that. And so that's how I started getting into shadow work. Because as I grew up, got in high school god university. I then realized that I am intentionally putting myself into these situations are harmful for myself. Why am I doing that? Because I'm definitely learning from all these experiences of and is this the way to learn is obstacle really the way? Is there a silver lining to of this? So that's what I've been exploring. Basically, as my life's work since
Lorilee Binstock 00:05:09 that's fascinating. You know, that's really interesting. You say, you no, it's not that extravagant, you know, your life story, but your story is
Jessica Depatie 00:05:16 Right.
Lorilee Binstock 00:05:16 so many other people's stories. I feel like a lot of people you know, where I And in tell many different ways, feel isolated. They feel like an outsider. And they feel different, and that makes them feel weird. And, you know, I've I felt like that as well. I'm a I'm a child of imagery immigrant parent. And it did it did feel. You know, I I grew up in Jacksonville, Florida. And I at that time, there there want a lot of other Filipino in where I live I live by the beach. And so I didn't realize that I would
Jessica Depatie 00:05:51 Well
Lorilee Binstock 00:05:53 I was different until, you know,
Jessica Depatie 00:05:59 eva.
Lorilee Binstock 00:05:56 it was pointed out to me and then I was like, oh, I I'm different. I didn't realize that. So I feel like there are people, especially, you know, in fourth grade. That, you know, that feel different, but they don't know why. And I I've I I'm so fascinated. When did you feel? When you were an adult, when you needed to explore this, And how did you decide, like, okay, I'm gonna do shadow work is there someone that you met or you talk to? Who introduce you to this.
Jessica Depatie 00:06:27 So I would say when I was younger, I went in a really locked into an observer period.
Lorilee Binstock 00:06:36 Mhmm.
Jessica Depatie 00:06:35 When might call that dis, but it was very top down experience of my own life. And constantly thinking, like, what is wrong with me that people don't wanna talk to me? At this point right now, I know that it was my own platform, and that I like, created that existence for myself. As a kid, you know, I'm just, like, why am I so weird? Like, what is up with this? And having every lunch but I was just, like, tread research
Lorilee Binstock 00:07:00 Mm-mm.
Jessica Depatie 00:06:59 adding lunch because I'd have to sit by myself and all of that. And just constantly thinking, like, there's something wrong with me. I have to figure this out. I have to figure this out. So when I went to a different school, in high school. Like, I'm going to be different. I know I'm an extra extroverted person. I know that I can have conversations with people. I know that I'm another version of myself in there somewhere that I have and given myself the option to be
Lorilee Binstock 00:07:24 Mhmm.
Jessica Depatie 00:07:27 Right? But in doing that, I I hadn't I didn't have any tools. I didn't have any friends and I couldn't or he didn't wanna talk to my parents about it because I wanted them to be proud of me I didn't wanna
Lorilee Binstock 00:07:41 Mhmm.
Jessica Depatie 00:07:39 tell them that, you know I'm suffering, and I'm like, lonely and all these things the had pride. Right? And so all I had with myself. And with a lack of tools and resources. I turn to drinking So that's kinda of how I got into high school, and to give myself some credit, I did learn quite a bit around social social cues, like socializing my myself in that
Lorilee Binstock 00:08:01 Mhmm.
Jessica Depatie 00:08:03 But also, with that, I developed a habit of needing booze to access as part of myself. And so with that habit, it followed me into university Again, not a very remarkable story. And I I keep highlighting that because
Lorilee Binstock 00:08:20 Mhmm.
Jessica Depatie 00:08:18 it's is normalized to drink a lot in college and through high school, but it really isn't. It doesn't have to be that way. And I think these younger generate the ones that are going through it right now, they're understanding that they know more than we did back in the day.
Lorilee Binstock 00:08:29 Yeah.
Jessica Depatie 00:08:31 Which is so amazing. But back of my day, you know, like, what did I graduate? You ever university seen, like, ten or so. That was a standard, you know, blocking out every weekend. Was not uncommon.
Lorilee Binstock 00:08:40 Yeah.
Jessica Depatie 00:08:43 Right.
Lorilee Binstock 00:08:44 Mhmm.
Jessica Depatie 00:08:44 Problem. My mom is super psychic. She just me sure So
Lorilee Binstock 00:08:50 Oh, that's tiffany.
Jessica Depatie 00:08:53 Yeah. I got to a point where I was graduating university I was starting a corporate career and the Salesforce that I joined was really old like, nineties sales floor, everybody in shoes real cool fun hustle, lots of money And with that, drugs alcohol were a thing, but I looked I had the awareness somehow at that point. To be, like, if people are not happy. You know, I'm not trying to be at this company for the next five years and turn into this. And, like, no shade, but not we're trying to go So I realized, like, I'm the only one I can save my myself from this. I haven't created, like, a full on alcohol addiction. You know, I'm like, a weekend warrior. I justify a lot of these things I know I can pull my thought self out of it. So I really dove into what I know now is shadow work, but before was just the exploration, this cultivating of my own experience and pulling myself out having the before I would do the thing, to understand more about about what it is I'm doing. Right? And so that opened me up to a whole world of of shadow work of things like even astrology, which I got really into, which was super helpful to understand my own experience in terms of archetype energies that one's working with.
Lorilee Binstock 00:10:15 Mm-mm.
Jessica Depatie 00:10:16 Looking into young, even and see what else came up. The taro taro is really interesting. You know? I mean,
Lorilee Binstock 00:10:24 Yeah.
Jessica Depatie 00:10:25 look at it from a destination standpoint, which a lot of people wouldn't have subscribe to. But if you look at it just from an type perspective and seeing how your life relate to the images that come. It can be a really great way to expand your consciousness.
Lorilee Binstock 00:10:38 Yes. I have this my my husband's grandmother,
Jessica Depatie 00:10:43 What
Lorilee Binstock 00:10:42 reads tear cards, and she reads mine every once in a while. It's really. It's really fun. I'm like, yes. I'm I'm like, I need it. I need I I need a couple hours with her to do that though because she she she loves to go on, and it's she's really fascinating. Yes. I do love love with you tear. Something I actually saw going through your Instagram feed,
Jessica Depatie 00:11:04 Good
Lorilee Binstock 00:11:04 I I mean, You know, I was stocking. But I I noticed that you did a lot of work in campbell. I
Jessica Depatie 00:11:08 Yeah. Yeah. So in this whole exploration of, like, testing the human experience because, you know, Now so back in the day, I put myself in a lot of dangerous situation and I learned from them. And and when doing it unintentionally, I say intention but I just mean, I put myself there. I didn't have a lot of experiences that happened at me or to me. Right?
Lorilee Binstock 00:11:31 Mhmm.
Jessica Depatie 00:11:33 I was a creator of my own experience in the very like textbook way. Show in this days of life, where I pulled myself out of the mug out of the trial and air portion. I'm like, okay. How can I actually intentionally test my edges? Of the human experience of my own experience in a way that I've gotten pretty good at doing. I'm I feel very comfortable in the unknown and well to extent and with ambiguity. And so combo, which is for anyone listening that they're not aware of what it is. It's a secretion from a frog that leave it down in South America. And you it was traditionally used for hunting. It's a non psychedelic medicine, and they will harvest the excretion from this frog in a very gentle way so it doesn't create the animal. And then you do several superficial burns into the top layer of your skin. So you're not going into the bloodstream. Very quick little and then you know a facilitator apply this medicine to these burns sites they call gave. And in that experience, it it's really hard. It's like, it cleans out your lymphatic but the feeling sense of it is getting really, really sick.
Lorilee Binstock 00:12:51 Mhmm
Jessica Depatie 00:12:52 Like if you like getting the flu in the worst way possible for about ten minutes. So it's really short. Most people will purge out of their mouse trail lab. And you're fasting. So you're just throwing up a liquid and need to drink a certain amount of before, or you'll go to the bathroom later or you'll sweat. There are a lot of different ways of purge shake. You might cry. And show, like, why would you even wanna do that? If it's a non losing genetic and you just feel sick? What is the point other than clean with that system. Well,
Lorilee Binstock 00:13:23 Tell me more.
Jessica Depatie 00:13:24 Yeah. Right. But there's more I promise that just like stuck. It created kind of psychological billion. You know, it and in doing that, to magic of event all the clears out your brain of a lot of the the Bs that's been stuck there. It's like, it's like bio ten hours of meditation in ten minutes.
Lorilee Binstock 00:13:45 Mm-mm
Jessica Depatie 00:13:48 Now you feel it. It's not a good time, but afterwards, so much clarity in so much space has created between the things that you thought were problems and you're body. So would okay did... Just kind of close the loop on that experience night and embodied kind of practice to go through because it really ground into the present moment. So a lot of times, people will do con before they go into ceremony. For something like Eye because you can be really nervous going into something like that. Know, you have all these things millions intentions, all these fears, which are
Lorilee Binstock 00:14:22 Right.
Jessica Depatie 00:14:20 perfectly normal because it's such a powerful momentum to work with. Combo and really great thing to do before because it clears you out bringing the present moment, and it can give you that grounded in. Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:14:33 Now. Amazing. Yeah. I I'm a huge job for Alex. I I really credit
Jessica Depatie 00:14:43 Yeah
Lorilee Binstock 00:14:43 it alex to my own personal healing. I'm a childhood sexual abuse survivor. And so for the longest time, I had no idea what yeah what was wrong with me. I just knew something, you know, I thought, like, okay. Oh, there's a point where I was by diagnosed by bipolar. And I was on, like, lithium and all these medications for, like, ten years, and then I was, like, someone talk to me about Ptsd and sexual abuse, and I was like, If you're not a soldier, you still can get Ptsd. Like, I don't understand. So tell me more. And and then I realized, like, oh I've been struggling with Ptsd. I went to treatment. I just so happened to meet several people in the psychedelic underground and they had helped to me so much in and really understanding. And I think this is where kinda of the shadow work right. You just
Jessica Depatie 00:15:34 Oh,
Lorilee Binstock 00:15:36 kind of go into the dark places of your soul. Where you... If you are able to experience it or or face it. Is that it would you say that's where post traumatic growth grows from
Jessica Depatie 00:15:50 Yeah. That's that's a really good question. So oh, gosh. We're do gonna start with that? So your... Your acknowledgement and the Ptsd is really interesting. You know, it it's
Lorilee Binstock 00:16:07 Great.
Jessica Depatie 00:16:04 it's interesting to think about a time where that didn't exist. Pdf and a function is always the included, but the name for it, The recognition of it didn't really come about until, like, their late seventies. So a super reset. And interestingly, post traumatic growth was also scientifically typically named and more discovered at the same time. No. You can imagine why Ptsd really took off in terms of acknowledgement versus the growth aspect of it, which I'll get into a second. Which is probably, you know, if I wanna get, like, real talk about it. It it's if you make money keeping people sick. Right?
Lorilee Binstock 00:16:46 Yep.
Jessica Depatie 00:16:48 And show, hey, something quote that happens to you. You have Ptsd here's diagnosis. Now the benefit of that is clearly these are things that we need to know about because Pt is very, very real. Super real. Right? And also the the acknowledgement that word, but, you know, whatever, like, not the the possible psychological benefit of going through the hard thing. With a sense of agency with the right resources. Is just here as possible because then, you know, maybe you can relate to this when you're diagnosed with something. It that can be crystallize your identity.
Lorilee Binstock 00:17:30 Mhmm
Jessica Depatie 00:17:32 And so as we've picked up the torch on exploring post traumatic growth again. One of the things that we learned very early on is Ptsd and post growth, Pt, happen up can happen at the same time, You know, growth in the linear.
Lorilee Binstock 00:17:49 Yeah.
Jessica Depatie 00:17:49 And what is growth even? That with a huge huge question. That we had to answer if we wanted to create documentary around growth. These definitions that are really difficult to explore. First of all, what is leaving trauma? And what is gross? We know post it after
Lorilee Binstock 00:18:07 Mhmm.
Jessica Depatie 00:18:07 But trauma. Right? There were so many people with different explanations of what it is.
Lorilee Binstock 00:18:13 Yes.
Jessica Depatie 00:18:12 And you've heard things like big trauma and little trauma. You know, but it's almost like we give a we put them on a scale, like, little trauma isn't as important as a big t trauma. Well, if it's important to you, you know paint a pain,
Lorilee Binstock 00:18:25 Right.
Jessica Depatie 00:18:26 Right? And that was something that I still... Like, I even started off this conversation by saying, Oh, my story. Isn't that interesting.
Lorilee Binstock 00:18:34 Great.
Jessica Depatie 00:18:34 But they knew, it was very interesting. You know? To me, it set my life on a trajectory that I'm very grateful for. But would have been completely different if it didn't exist. And So when we add a a ranking system, to trauma. I think that's when people can sort of check out of that word. They don't like to associate with it because I'm not a victim or nothing really bad happened to me I might be suffering. I might have full blown and Ptsd, but I don't acknowledge it because you know, I don't have
Lorilee Binstock 00:19:06 Right.
Jessica Depatie 00:19:05 this crazy story. And so the best definition of trauma that we heard came from again, Anderson Todd. Who talked about trauma as a kind of like, when trust is broken,
Lorilee Binstock 00:19:22 Mhmm.
Jessica Depatie 00:19:22 you know, I trust, and I'm gonna go through so subconsciously my childhood. Being safe. Your example, I I subconsciously trust I'm not gonna be sexually abused that the people that are around me care for me, you know, And sure they may be doing their best and they're they're dealing with life and whatever way possible, but they're not gonna do something that horrible to me. Trusting broken in that when dad tells you she's gonna pick you up from Doctor Pat or be at your soccer game. And he doesn't go over and over and over again. That is can be traumatic, You know?
Lorilee Binstock 00:19:53 That it. Yeah.
Jessica Depatie 00:19:55 Little whatever. But then I become a I can't trust my dad. I can't trust men. I can't trust myself. And so that definition was really helpful moving forward. And then when we talked about grove. Well, the that majority I would actually everybody that was in the documentary also has Ptsd. Right We have veterans that have had long careers are seeing things that no... None of us will ever see we have you know, murder attempt survivors and they still get triggered by things. Right? They still feel serious lows. They still feel like, things are at times unbearable But the way that growth works in the way that we've to find it is an extension of consciousness, which is senior your experience from many different perspectives being able to feel into life. In a very full way. And know was one of the interesting things about this whole thing is that growth doesn't look like the way a lot of people might or conventional wisdom. My say is. It's not necessarily affiliated with achievement. And success and being happy all the time.
Lorilee Binstock 00:21:07 Right.
Jessica Depatie 00:21:08 Because we're be asking people that have lived experiences of post matter growth that are now of service. They have turned their message into a message more or less. A have, like,
Lorilee Binstock 00:21:14 Mhmm.
Jessica Depatie 00:21:17 how many deep appreciation for life, they have meaning and they can see meaning and little things that a lot of people that haven't acknowledged the adversity in their life had created more wisdom and all these things, you know, strength, these people that have really identified I push about a growth person. They feel everything. So there's this level of sensitivity as well that like, in not so productive sometimes. You know to go through life like that. But when you have to be do people be level in, which they can feel their high on their lows. They're here for all of it. That one of the things that when we look at the way so work today. Not totally designed for that kind of person. But they wouldn't have it any other way. You know, to be able to have these conversations with people like you. That are affecting positively, so many people that have gone through traumatic experiences you know, if you didn't go through that, then maybe they wouldn't be healing, you know? So there's a out fact of of working with the material that you've been presented in your past life. In a way that is and four, like, the higher good of of future generations. And so that's really... Actually, the whole note that we end on in the documentary is and then the controversial, and it's tricky to say, without a lot of context, but we ask the question. Is it a moral responsibility to acknowledge your trauma to do the shadow work to go into the dark plane to reclaim the pieces of yourself that's been fragmented. You know? Because when we look at the long list of social issues and environmental issues and all the things. Right?
Lorilee Binstock 00:23:01 Mhmm.
Jessica Depatie 00:23:03 We can see that the answers are to them. Are very short sighted. Now why is that? You know, it's likely because the people that are making these decisions, the policymakers makers politicians to educators, parents, anybody who has any kind of influence we all have something that if we're not doing the inner work, what manifests as our outer life's work, the decisions we make how we show open in the world only have... It has a limitation. So perhaps it is our more responsibility you really look at the things that have happened to us and for us so I wanted to be cliche about it. For future generation.
Lorilee Binstock 00:23:44 I absolutely. I love that question. I I and for me, the answer is yes. Right? I feel that you know, you know in in my June issue of authentic insider, a woman writes about by curious resilience. And I feel like when you hear other people's stories when you, you know, other other people it helped other people want to start healing because to be honest, before I actually started my healing journey, I'm I'm like, If you told me about post traumatic growth, I thought I would think you were full of shit.
Jessica Depatie 00:24:20 No.
Lorilee Binstock 00:24:22 Like, no. This is my life. This is who I am. Now I'm supposed to be sad a lot of most of my life and this is this is it. Because I had just it just couldn't. I could not understand anything other than what I was living in. Until I hit, like, rock bottom, and then I had to go into treatment. But it was I feel like once I actually explore, I like really, really try to resist exploring those dark places. I never in twenty twenty. At, twenty twenty was the first time he even, like, utter the word
Jessica Depatie 00:25:00 Mm-mm
Lorilee Binstock 00:24:59 sexual abuse. And I think for for me, as it pertain to mean because I was sexually abused by my father, which has its own you know, layers of
Jessica Depatie 00:25:09 Mhmm.
Lorilee Binstock 00:25:11 shit. You don't wanna go into. But it was... One time is able to go into it though. Once I was able to talk about it, the first time I actually talked about in a group of people they were like, they came to a couple of them came to me, and the really like that actually happened to me. I haven't talked about it. Even though they had been in this treatment center that I was in for probably a month longer than I was. When they were able to start talking about what happened to them, and then that was when, like, their healing process and their ability to move out of this treatment center. Started accelerating. So it was... It's it's I do believe that there is once we've gone to this place once we've achieved post growth, I guess, I feel like, yes. There there's there's a responsibility there. To tell your story But that's just me.
Jessica Depatie 00:26:04 Thank you so much for sharing that. That is like, a really remarkable story of so of resilient, you know, and I'm so glad that you brought up hitting your rock bottom and that being the thing that that woke you up to the kind of work. You know, what's interesting about that is a lot of people are living in a like, a lot of people don't hit a kind of rock bottom that wakes them up.
Lorilee Binstock 00:26:30 Mhmm.
Jessica Depatie 00:26:31 Which I think why a lot of people do like delegate, like, I just have this hovering dirt cloud of
Lorilee Binstock 00:26:38 Yeah.
Jessica Depatie 00:26:38 a shit. Getting mean like, this feeling of you know, unpleasant. That's just covering around. And so maybe can work, and it shows you
Lorilee Binstock 00:26:46 Mhmm.
Jessica Depatie 00:26:47 all the things you've been tolerated. Right? Is show your you'll you can feel like your at rock bottom in a way that you've facilitated for yourself. And I think that that is one of the flaws in our in the way anxiety is and it built today is, like, there's so many ways to distract you from having a rock
Lorilee Binstock 00:27:04 Yeah.
Jessica Depatie 00:27:07 got a moment. So people that, like yourself, and a lot of people that I've talk to in the research of this project. They have really, like, intense traumatic experience that the rock bottoms that the hit are remarkable. Right? They can experience the post traumatic growth and also, then remarkable ways because they've seen a version of themselves. They've that is unbearable.
Lorilee Binstock 00:27:30 Yeah.
Jessica Depatie 00:27:33 Right? Now for your I don't know. I guess you're get average person. Still having traumatic experience but, you know, I can distract myself with Netflix or shopping or working out or all these things or dating apps or jumping from relationship to relationship.
Lorilee Binstock 00:27:52 Right
Jessica Depatie 00:27:51 So I never feel that rock bottom. You know, all this convenience that we have in our life. That is supposed to keep us quote happy, but just keep those more or less from experiencing that dark night of our soul, And that's not to see that we don't see hints of it. We don't see hints of you know, laying in Bed at night, mean, like, what is what is all of that? Got a change, but then, you know, maybe I'll literally listen into a podcast to go to sleep into having these thoughts.
Lorilee Binstock 00:28:16 Right.
Jessica Depatie 00:28:16 So, you know, the title, the documentary night of Our is called action more or less. To stop distracting yourself and to just contemplate what is hiding in your own underworld? So that you don't have to hit a rock bottom. Because, you know, we can keep them hovering and employment pleasant our whole lives and the rock bottom might be, and I hate to be the girl talk about it. But, you know, when we're older, hopefully, we get to that point living a long life. Being the deathbed bed and that being perhaps you rock about a moment of, like,
Lorilee Binstock 00:28:52 Mhmm.
Jessica Depatie 00:28:50 I should've have... I should've have looked at all that. You know, I I I had all these relationships that were right there in front of my face, but I was not able to love enough because I wasn't able to, like, reclaim the person of myself that made me feel like me again maybe feel like me for the first time. Period.
Lorilee Binstock 00:29:06 Yeah. Yeah. When I say
Jessica Depatie 00:29:11 So... Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:29:13 go. Go ahead.
Jessica Depatie 00:29:14 Just gonna conclude there that And, even when I say this, I get a little bit emotional because I really feel the impact of this work. Lies on our generation shoulders.
Lorilee Binstock 00:29:28 Yeah.
Jessica Depatie 00:29:28 You know, because we're coming to a present around like, the level of depression that the world, like on a global scale don't have the number, but it's like,
Lorilee Binstock 00:29:42 Yeah.
Jessica Depatie 00:29:41 a lot of people, you know, it's like, one in three people and we'll have some kind of diagnosing mental disorder that can be preventable by I think looking at some of the material that has created these coping mechanisms that have then become visual. I mean, we even look at hoard, there's something like eighteen million orders just in the at. I don't know if that number is true or not. But that's that is wondering specific. Like manifestation of a group of people that have perhaps unresolved trauma you know, that just the numbers are huge, and when we look at the ways that we are coping through consumer in them, it's destroying our planet and I don't know what the timeline is for that. But you know, what world are we leaving for our kids? So... Yeah. The this field like it feels like important work.
Lorilee Binstock 00:30:35 If it is an important work, I absolutely agree. And, you know, going back to, you know, this idea of like, little key trauma. Right? I feel like people the majority of people who just kind of live in that
Jessica Depatie 00:30:50 Oh,
Lorilee Binstock 00:30:50 space of... I'm just dealing and dealing and dealing. I feel like they've dealt with little trauma and because they have dealt with big g trauma, they don't think that there's anything that they need to explore. And I think that that's also why we need to make people more aware that, like, little t trauma is trauma. And and not exploring it. Can be a problem. And, yeah... It's so easy to distract herself like you said with so much And, you know, for me, I I I just couldn't right? I had children that were triggering me. Never it was just like, oh my gosh. My daughter is reminding me of of these moments that I don't wanna relive and I need just need to go away. But
Jessica Depatie 00:31:35 mhmm
Lorilee Binstock 00:31:37 you know, what's nice about being able to have also know going back to what we were talking about exploring, you know, is it our responsibility to explore those dark places. I really feel it, like, if I didn't, I don't know what would be there for my daughter. Because my daughter, my son, I... I think my son benefited to the most the youngest, so he's see me... He's been with me more since my healing, my daughter has seen both sides of me and it's been really, you know, I can see how it's been difficult quote for her. Like, my son can
Jessica Depatie 00:32:06 Mhmm
Lorilee Binstock 00:32:10 is is I feel like ken easily, you know, take a breath, and my daughter is more like me. You know, prior to treatment when, you know, if my husband was to say, you can you take a breath? Can you breathe? I'd be like, yep. I don't want to. You know? So that... You know, because that's who I was. I was very much a I like, no. I nothing's gonna help. Leave me alone. And then, you know, coming out of treatment, it was like, this this is stuff that actually works when I was... When I was at my treatment center, they actually we they did bio and you can see, like, what breathing action we did when you actually took deep breaths and you saw, like, your you your energy. It was just... It was amazing. And it would... It made it more concrete for me to help my children
Jessica Depatie 00:32:57 mhmm.
Lorilee Binstock 00:32:59 be able to manage these stress by simply taking a breath or really talking about what happened.
Jessica Depatie 00:33:08 Oh,
Lorilee Binstock 00:33:08 In their day. And I think Yeah. It's just just exploring it that way and being okay with sharing, like, the bad stuff and being okay with it.
Jessica Depatie 00:33:16 Oh, for sure, You know, like, having kids, I I don't have any kids myself, but talking to you one of the other experts in our film, Doctor Tru who's the resilience researcher. And he was talking about the the other things we often talk about Trauma think
Lorilee Binstock 00:33:37 Mhmm.
Jessica Depatie 00:33:36 that are bad. Right? But they can also be things that are good but you're different on the other side of it. You know? Having kids is a really great example of that, having children can be dramatic. Like, just changing in her whole life, you know?
Lorilee Binstock 00:33:50 Yes.
Jessica Depatie 00:33:51 And things That didn't bother you before you know, are, like, all of a sudden important and require attention and things used enjoy, the whole snow globe of your brain gets chuck. Shaken up. Winning the lottery is another good example. A lot people win the lottery that's good.
Lorilee Binstock 00:34:11 Yeah.
Jessica Depatie 00:34:07 Can be also be out there's like a whole bunch of other things that pop up as a result of that. And to your point about, you know, your relationship with your daughter being a little bit different than your relationship to your son. Would I wanted to also add in there around this moral responsibility do the work? It is it also saying that it's not your responsibility or it's not a you should heal because it that that's where things get tricky. You know?
Lorilee Binstock 00:34:37 Mhmm.
Jessica Depatie 00:34:37 Okay. To be somebody's bad day. Because this is... Like, we have to subscribe in some way to surrendering to the way life plays out like, things will make sense at some point. You know? The weird part of this complex fabric of the way the universe is tied together. So we can look at like, my mom, for example, she after starting this work, she was feeling like a lot of shame around her themselves. And by transferring her own unresolved trauma on me, you know, this sense of unacceptable and rejection. That I talk about often when I go podcast and on my own show, and she's like, god I if I just
Lorilee Binstock 00:35:27 Mhmm.
Jessica Depatie 00:35:28 have worked on that earlier in my life because she's working on it now. You wouldn't have that You wouldn't have to go through any of this. I'm, like, public.
Lorilee Binstock 00:35:34 Oh.
Jessica Depatie 00:35:35 Yeah. I did I did suffer but I'm so grateful for the way that I dealt with that and the other the bit of agency that you did in still me that I can change because that's one of the big things around this kind of work. Sense of agency. You know, I did I wouldn't be doing this at all. I don't know where I'd be. What I'd be doing that I love what I do now. You know so we can look at our children, let's say, you know, for anybody listening that at has had a two phases life? You know, one child experienced a version that you were proud of
Lorilee Binstock 00:36:05 Mhmm.
Jessica Depatie 00:36:08 you know? But that can turn into something remarkable that we have no idea. To the only thing I think... Well, I don't think this is from research post growth research. That has come out of the wave of Covid, considering the whole world went through a collective trauma in many different facets, whether that was extreme family deaths, of fear of government you know, control, like, any way, which way people are different on the other side of this. Right? It comes up with conversation often. Families are looking a lot different. The way people go out public can be different. A lot of friendships were dissolved for different, you know, value noncitizens that were conflicting that just weren't able to be resolved. So this new wave of research has shown that Okay. Is what set somebody up for post traumatic growth. You know, what can we help instill in our children? If they are going through it art are are going to go through it because we all kinda do
Lorilee Binstock 00:37:04 Mhmm.
Jessica Depatie 00:37:07 There's no difference in extra version or introversion really the benefit of being more of an extrovert type is that like, the ability to share your story with other people and to bring in people into your own experience like you were talking about when you're in treatment, when you shared, it was really helpful. You're able to get feedback and you put in distance between your own inner world and, like,
Lorilee Binstock 00:37:30 Mhmm.
Jessica Depatie 00:37:29 And you, you know, you put it out there, you you brought light to it. The benefit of being more introverted and you may have a more like, colorful inner world. To contemplate why things have happened. But there is a difference between open and a lack of open there, we were gonna to look at the big five scale. Openness this to new experiences. Is one of the markers of post growth in terms of personality. So that's where we can start talking about in intentionally working with our kids or working with ourselves. I'll talk ourselves first.
Lorilee Binstock 00:38:06 Mhmm.
Jessica Depatie 00:38:09 One of the topics I we explore here is intentionally facilitated post growth. Which is a big concept to jump from Did you know you have trauma to You can intentionally facilitate your own. Right? Like, had a lot of ground to cover there. But the point is to build capacity So the more new experience that you put yourself in, the more you can subconsciously realize that I am capable and you collect more data around what you can get through. So I think that's why people like working out. In ways that are more intense like hit or traveling or meeting new people or doing psychedelics. Right? Like, the more experiences you can put yourself into, the more
Lorilee Binstock 00:38:52 Mhmm.
Jessica Depatie 00:38:50 waiting you can expand your capacity to be in them. Showing worked with our kids, and we show them that you can be different. Hear some ways that you can be different, whether that's helping them go into sports, like, group sports is one kind of thing or if they're more of a solo person, like Martial Arts, but really helping them intentionally test some of those edges in micro. In a more micro capacity.
Lorilee Binstock 00:39:13 Mhmm. Mhmm.
Jessica Depatie 00:39:13 So that when you get the flood dose of adversity, is gonna happen at some point. It's like, oh, yeah. I've been... I've been training for this. And then okay.
Lorilee Binstock 00:39:22 Right. Wow. Yes. And you know, it's it reminds me of a a really great quote from someone that I interviewed a while ago he was an
Jessica Depatie 00:39:33 Oh
Lorilee Binstock 00:39:33 shell former Nhl player, Dave Scattered. He after I think was a sith can ca heat. It was, like oh it was a near fatal concussion in humans, like, in his thirties getting dementia. And he told me because he said he's been his whole life just like this happy guy, like everything everything was kind of, you know, he's working hard doing, you know, achieving things. And then once you hit that, that that that can got that fit concussion and nearly died. You know, he and he was suffering and he realized, like, he said that god came to him when he was like, ready to just throw in the towel, and he was... He was ready to take in no life. Said you said he's like, he spoke to me, and he said that I I needed you to go through what you had
Jessica Depatie 00:40:25 Oh,
Lorilee Binstock 00:40:24 go through so you can help the people that you're going to help. Because he was saying that, you know, you know, there's a before that had happened, she'd be like, Oh, just suck it up. Just... You know, you broke your arm. You you know, you broke your whatever a teeth. You just, you know, just get up and let's do. Let's just do right. It's like, let's let's go. But he said that he had to go through the suffering to really understand what it was like, to be able to help other people because now he is a coach. He's he's a life coach. He's a for for for athletes to, you know, a and so he he had to understand. The only way he could understand other people suffering was going through the veterans himself because that he was just ready to give up and I just thought that was just an amazing way to look at it, like, right right now, like, I mean, I'm I don't know who I would be if all the things that happened to me, didn't happen. Like you were saying,
Jessica Depatie 00:41:22 Mhmm mhmm.
Lorilee Binstock 00:41:26 but but I'm happy where I am now.
Jessica Depatie 00:41:27 You.
Lorilee Binstock 00:41:29 And so I think that's that's that's that's the growth. That's the that's the growth there.
Jessica Depatie 00:41:35 Yeah. I'm so glad he brought up. You know, a former athlete, like, that is that performer type you know, we we were glove was better and then first, first responders, Ashley also fall into that category entrepreneurs. People that have, like, grip Right? And they're used to.
Lorilee Binstock 00:41:58 Mhmm.
Jessica Depatie 00:42:00 Practice and training to present something, whether that's to present themselves perfectly more or less in the arena of sport. Or on the battlefield or in business. And one of the interesting bits of research that we came across is that you can go from You don't have to be So talking to vitality right now,
Lorilee Binstock 00:42:25 Mhmm.
Jessica Depatie 00:42:26 which is the ultimate, like, lack of agency getting to the point of, like,
Lorilee Binstock 00:42:36 Right.
Jessica Depatie 00:42:33 I can't change and this is it and then pulling the plug on your experience. So we wanted to study that to see what is the ultimate giving up moment. Right? When people are like, there is no growth left for me, The only way is this way. And there's bit of research that we found show that there... You can go from being perfectly quote, okay. To Suicide Value fairly quickly, when you have committed yourself to a lack of being able to change. And so I bring up performers because especially prevalent in that kind of archetype. Which I would consider myself to fall into as well. Which is like a bit of a failed hero story. You know, my whole life cultured nourished nurtured to perform him and to show up and all these things and at a point where, like, let say this gentleman, gets traumatic brain injury to the point where he is just, like, super different on the other side of that. The things that he valued above everything else likely was the the entertainment, the the joy that he brought through his his work. Right? And now that's gone, Who am I even?
Lorilee Binstock 00:43:46 Mm-mm
Jessica Depatie 00:43:48 And so a big part of the doing this work is acknowledging grade. You know, like, we go back to what is growth even, not being happy all the time. But it doesn't mean feeling joy and you're sorrow. Feeling the okay and being wherever you're at. So I can really relate to that story because I haven't experienced traumatic brain injury myself, but I was married to a Jeff Pop is also of the producer of this documentary he has traumatic brain injury. And when that started to flare up, it was unbearable to him. And to me,
Lorilee Binstock 00:44:25 Mhmm.
Jessica Depatie 00:44:27 the emotional wave, the all the things that come with that. And because of the brain injury, it makes it a little bit tricky to work with. You know, the healing process on physiological like, in in terms of how your body heals, it it's kind different than a lot of the other psychological wounds that can happen. And so for him to acknowledge grace inhibit what he felt to be weak, not being able to show up. Not being able to be the husband that he wanted to be being ind incapacitated at moment. Not being able to reach out to people
Lorilee Binstock 00:45:08 Mhmm
Jessica Depatie 00:45:04 like, without that great, then he don't get me wrong. He had moment of, like, no grade. They just like this is horrible, and I don't know what to do with my myself anymore. But that with with what would be identified as the weakness for a performer is super super huge, and it takes time. And yeah, what is Grace even? Like, acknowledgement that that this is all part of it.
Lorilee Binstock 00:45:31 Yeah.
Jessica Depatie 00:45:31 Right. So below the the coming to Jesus moment, like, that's what those load can be.
Lorilee Binstock 00:45:38 Yeah.
Jessica Depatie 00:45:39 And it's hard when you're in those in your rock bottom, I don't know if there's a lot of work to be done there. Like, when you're really going through it and you're feeling everything, I think the strategy there is to breathe and write it out.
Lorilee Binstock 00:45:53 Yeah.
Jessica Depatie 00:45:53 But when you come back into a point of neutrality, that's where I think the work begins is it's in the contemplation of, like, what was that? Where did that come from? You know, now that of space instead of just going right back to twice me like, okay. Well I'm good again. You know, I'm just gonna ignore that that happened.
Lorilee Binstock 00:46:08 Yeah.
Jessica Depatie 00:46:09 That's where you put in the wraps.
Lorilee Binstock 00:46:12 Right. I agree. I agree. It was... You know, when you're in it, there's really not much you can do.
Jessica Depatie 00:46:16 Mhmm.
Lorilee Binstock 00:46:19 You're just you're you're... You just... I feel like you can just go down. Right? Like, I felt like that I was just going down my rabbit hole when I hit the rock bottom and I was just like, there's nothing for me.
Jessica Depatie 00:46:27 Mhmm.
Lorilee Binstock 00:46:31 Luckily, I had my husband who was like, okay. You can do this. We're gonna do this.
Jessica Depatie 00:46:31 Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:46:35 We're gonna do this. But Yeah. It was... You know, I I I I do... And I know that this likely the purpose of your your documentary, but to let will know that, you know, post traumatic growth is achievable people, it's... You know, And and I feel like, I I can't stress that enough because I was there. I was there. I was there what I was just like, this is who I am. There's no there's no way out of
Jessica Depatie 00:47:02 Mhmm.
Lorilee Binstock 00:47:02 this. And I think that there's nothing more then I want to share then it is a possibility. There's it's there.
Jessica Depatie 00:47:13 Exactly. That is so well said it is the possibility because one very easy route we could gone down with this that would made my a lot easier it may, like, here, the five steps the post traumatic gross, you know, like, Youtube can be healed, but it so not that. Like, this whole film is really one messenger prompt know, the answers that you get are only gonna come within yourself. So it's... It's presented in a very poetic way. And we're really, really careful to not say that it is Let gonna say that. Just to know that it is an option. To believe that it is an option. Is the biggest and leap of faith you can take.
Lorilee Binstock 00:47:59 Yes.
Jessica Depatie 00:48:01 There's no actual work that you have to do in terms of by the end of this film, I mean, Like, there's no actual, like, you have to go see a therapist. Do you have to do psychedelics? You have to have to have do in order to heal, what you have to do is just know that it's possible and to just open your mind to whatever comes in. So one of the major themes or I methodologies that we follow is young in psychology throughout that. And the way that that's presented is a very gentle, like, awareness in an opening process. Everybody's experience different. Everybody's mode of healing will be different. That's why we're a solution agnostic kind of organization because going into treatment center it may be perfect for you. To give the guitar, maybe all that you need. You know, learning how to cook maybe everything. So to pinpoint exactly what needs to happen, what do I do now? Is not our responsibility to tell you what to do because that would just be
Lorilee Binstock 00:49:06 Mm-mm
Jessica Depatie 00:49:03 impossible and, like, irresponsible on our end. Right? Behold I don't wanna be the person that's like, well, just do what I did. If and it'll work for you at might. But This is where we pass agency to the viewer, like, your own intuition will let you know, follow the clues in your life.
Lorilee Binstock 00:49:21 Mhmm
Jessica Depatie 00:49:24 And here are through of the mythology that shows you that post growth is throughout of human history. Here the bio reasons why grows after trauma is actually probable not just possible. And here's all the proof around why this is actually a thing and not just some random phenomenon that happens to people that like, are lucky enough two you know, catch the post matter growth bug. So. Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:49:49 Wow, Amazing. I mean, I can talk to you all day. I really could.
Jessica Depatie 00:49:51 I know. That'd be great. Twenty four hour podcast.
Lorilee Binstock 00:49:56 I know. Right. But we do have to wrap it up. But I do want to ask if you have anything that you would like to add
Jessica Depatie 00:50:05 Well, I think I got through all the the juicy bit of the documentary, but we are running a kickstarter right now until the end of June, a little bit in the July, we're using fun to help us finish the film. So right now, if you donate eat fifteen bucks to the kick started. You can watch a short version of the film, which is thirty minutes, and it's very good. Have same else.
Lorilee Binstock 00:50:26 I I love the trailers. The trailer was amazing. I I I was like, I need more. So, yes,
Jessica Depatie 00:50:31 Thank you. We'll, also I you the link. Else send need a link to watch it. For anybody listening, yeah, the donation goes towards helping us finish it. And we just actually partnered with this fantastic director out of Hollywood. That is going to be editing our full film and just make it primed for for math media you know, like, that was one thing that in doing this process, we realized we have some limitations around what? In Netflix.
Lorilee Binstock 00:50:56 Mhmm.
Jessica Depatie 00:50:57 You know? And and what is too complicated? So we... Like I love this so much. I'm gonna set you up with the connections as distributors and all the things that you guys don't have right now, and I wanna edit it so the people really... So really not people locked up. So that wasn't in huge huge miracle for us. And, yeah. Any fun that are donated, go towards helping fish edit. But Also, it goes towards helping us create an past campaigns to the ones the film is finished, we can take to correctional facilities and addiction centers and to
Lorilee Binstock 00:51:34 Amazing.
Jessica Depatie 00:51:34 like colleges and, yeah. To help for the word of post growth rays wear in it. Around of possibility for people that either need it the most or to make the most impact. And usually, those are the same people
Lorilee Binstock 00:51:46 That's incredible. I really. I love that. I love going. The this idea of going to those places and and having them be able to for this idea of post growth. So incredible. And, you know, there's a scrolling fortune cookie right there on your screen. And I will also have in the show notes that you can go to that kickstarter right there. So
Jessica Depatie 00:52:11 Beautiful. Thank you so much for having Me on, this have been really fun.
Lorilee Binstock 00:52:12 Thanks.
Jessica Depatie 00:52:15 Love that you on my show too. One of these days. Let's up that up.
Lorilee Binstock 00:52:17 Yeah. Absolutely. Thank you so much. Jessica I really appreciated. That was Jessica good to pat shadow work educator host of the shadow work library podcast and the executive producer. Of the documentary dark night of our soul for more information on Jessica, click on that scrolling fortune cookie right there on your screen. You... It'll will also be in the show notes anywhere you get your podcast. Also, June issue of authentic insider is out check out out to insider at trauma thrive dot com that trauma survivor dot com. We will be back next week and with episode one hundred, You can join me live when I speak with Erin Johnson about mental health and marginalized communities. Next week it's gonna be on a different day. Same time though, it's gonna be on Tuesday, June thirteenth. Please join me. You've been listening to A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast. I'm Lorilee Binstock. Thanks again for being a part of the conversation. Take care.
This is a LIVE replay of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast which aired Wednesday, May 24th, 2023 at 1130am ET on Fireside Chat.
Today’s guest is Reverend Kenneth Nixon Jr., Author of the book Born Into Crisis: A Memoir.
For more information about Rev. Kenneth Nixon Jr.'s work, visit Author Rev. Kenneth Nixon.
Lorilee Binstock 00:03:22
Welcome.
I'm Lorilee Binstock, and this is A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast.
Thank you so much for joining me live on Fireside Chat, where you can be a part of the conversation
as my virtual audience.
I'm Lorilee Binstock, your host. Everyone has an opportunity to ask me or our guest questions by requesting to hop on stage or sending a message in the chat box. I will try to get you, but I do ask that everyone be respectful.
Our guest today is reverend, Kenneth,Nixon junior.
He is the author of Born into Crisis, a memoir about his experience growing up with a mentally ill mother. Kenneth, thank you so much for joining me today.
Kenneth Nixon 00:04:27
Thank you for having me. How are you doing today?
Lorilee Binstock 00:04:30
I'm doing great. Thank you. How about yourself?
Kenneth Nixon 00:04:33
Pretty good. Pretty good. You know, you you challenged me because I don't have an Apple device, so I had to go out and buy one for the first time.
Lorilee Binstock 00:04:41
Stop. Did you really
oh my goodness. What do you think of it?
Kenneth Nixon 00:04:44
Yes.
I have a lot of learning to do.
Lorilee Binstock 00:04:51
Oh my goodness. Well, I'm so grateful
for you. I mean,
maybe you could return I don't know if if you're like, oh, this is you know, you get so used to one thing
after a while, but I do appreciate
your your
willingness to come on the show
because you have a lot to say, and I wanna hear all about it. Your book brought into crisis, wow.
Incredibly.
So I I want you to be able to,
you know, for our guests who haven't read the book,
can you talk a little bit about your childhood?
Kenneth Nixon 00:05:26
Yes.
So
my childhood,
if we start right at the title of the book, right, born into crisis,
It
when I was born, my mother who suffered from severe
mental illness,
all of her
her life,
I was literally born into crisis from the standpoint. She was in the middle of
Psychosis
at the moment of my birth,
in which
while I was lying on the floor,
I was suffering from withdrawals from a medication called thorazine,
which is anti psychotic medication that she used to treat those who
then suffer from
paranoid schizophrenia
or other manic depressive disorders.
The stuff of that nature. And it was only
by grace that my father who was getting off of work, out there in time to get me in the hospital. So I quite literally was born into crisis.
But that is the beginning stage of a life and a childhood
in which I had to deal with
trauma,
PTSD,
anxiety, and various things of growing up with a mother with severe mental illness.
Lorilee Binstock 00:06:44
You know, that's really tough. You know, you you talk about, you know, postpartum
psychosis. I mean, I I it sounds like she she's dealt with these issues. But, you know, after, you know,
childbirth,
post farm psychosis is very real.
And and it's it's so such a you know, it's such an issue that people are like, yeah. It doesn't really affect that many people. It affects enough people. I feel like for for someone to raise awareness about it. You know? It's it it is very much a problem. You hear all these stories about these mothers.
Kenneth Nixon 00:07:02
Yes.
Lorilee Binstock 00:07:15
Who murdered their children or who've attempted to murder their children.
Kenneth Nixon 00:07:17
Mhmm.
Lorilee Binstock 00:07:19
And, you know,
this is this is a problem. Right? So I'm curious for you, you know,
for someone who's dealt with so much trauma, especially at an early age, how were you able to get out of that? How are you able to break these generational
cycles of of trauma?
Kenneth Nixon 00:07:42
Yeah. So what I wanna do first,
you hit
a good point that I wanted to emphasize
about not only prenatal care, but postnatal care.
Lorilee Binstock 00:07:55
Mhmm.
Kenneth Nixon 00:07:55
My mother because I have older siblings,
she suffered a severe bout of postpartum depression with my oldest brother,
Kevin,
in the seventies. And that
was not she did not have effective prenatal care and postnatal care,
and that can lead to
devastating consequences as well in terms of impacts to mental health if there's not effective care for from others, both pre and post.
And particularly in the sixties and seventies,
it it was really lacking for women of color.
It's improved, but there's still gaps in it. But prenatal and postnatal care is critical too
for for mothers to have, but
breaking generational cycles. I think it's
it's always a work in progress.
For me, it
began with this deep sense of curiosity
as I was growing up to try
to understand
how
my life could
turn out
in such a way. Right? Is those
stages
of
emotions that you go through from anger to to grief, to
resentment, to bitterness,
to sadness,
and really understanding
not only the systems and the environment that that I grew up in,
but understanding
what was within my control
to begin to shift the paradigm, not only in my life, but to also make sure that I don't carry some of those things
into my household as I'm raising my children.
And I took that personally because
I had a a deep sense that
I wanted to do things differently from my children
so they can have a healthier path
to to life than I did.
Lorilee Binstock 00:09:57
Yes. At
you know, for me, you know, I'm a childhood sexual abuse survivor.
You know, I realized my my father
was also sexually abused as a child. I didn't know that until I was much older.
For me, it was really hard. Even though I it's like, I knew You know, I they also had very erratic behaviors,
very
just very difficult to be around.
And, you know, the yay, yelling,
a lot of just
erratic behavior behaviors.
And, you know, even though I'm like, I don't wanna be I don't wanna be anything like my parents. You know, there are times where I'd get overwhelmed, and I'd get
you know, there's just moments with my kids that I was just yelling. And this was before I I got went to residential treatment. I
and I was very fortunate that I was able to do that. But before that, you know, I didn't realize. Like, I'm like, oh my god. My children are just behaving this way because
And it it it took a long time for me to say, oh my goodness. I'm I'm behaving
the way my parents were behaving. And now my children are going to pick up on this.
What was it for you where you were like,
things need to change, or was this before children?
And did you have a support system? Because I feel like that's extremely important too.
Kenneth Nixon 00:11:21
Mhmm.
So I I would say it's some of both.
In terms of a support system, I I would say I didn't have a big,
strong support system. But what I did have
was my my grandmother,
She passed away in two thousand and six,
and my father
But central to for me was my faith.
Lorilee Binstock 00:11:50
Mhmm.
Kenneth Nixon 00:11:52
And I'm only speaking for myself, but it was one of those things that
I can fully lean on
and trust to help me not only
center myself,
find the sense of peace,
but it was something that was dependable
and that was consistent in my life.
That allow me to have
a sense of
fulfillment.
But
as I got older
and, particularly, into adulthood,
I began focusing on
how do I
help others
not deal with the same
situations
that I was doing, but also how do I do the things in terms of self care therapy?
That I don't carry some of my traumas or inherited traumas
into a household
where I'm raising my sons.
And I will give a good example
in terms of that. Like, I grew up
where
family wasn't very loving. There were there weren't those affirmations
of
of I love you. I don't even think I remember my father ever saying that or people around me there. There weren't hugs or being tucked in at night, and
Lorilee Binstock 00:13:14
Mhmm.
Kenneth Nixon 00:13:19
things of of that nature that seem normal to me, but they weren't they're aren't normal
because humans thrive off of connection and
being connected with one another.
And it's really
focusing on the small things to make sure
Lorilee Binstock 00:13:34
Right.
Kenneth Nixon 00:13:36
that my children understand that they are loved, that I I tell them that they had loved them, that I talked them in at night, that I hugged them, that they actually see me crying.
And one of the the things that I wanted my sons to understand is that it's okay for boys who will eventually become men to cry. Because crying is one of the ways in which your body releases
anxiety. It releases stress or releases
Lorilee Binstock 00:14:01
Mhmm.
Kenneth Nixon 00:14:03
some of the things that if you bottle up, it can turn into
physical health challenges.
So I wanted to create an environment in which I was acting out on my self interest of creating a more fair and equitable society, particularly around mental
health. But I was also living that out in a way. I was raising my children so they can grow up in a healthy environment as much as possible.
I still have
things that I I have to work on because it's a continuous work.
Lorilee Binstock 00:14:34
Mhmm.
Kenneth Nixon 00:14:35
But as much as possible, I'm very conscious of it. And I try to create an environment that is a hundred and eighty degrees different than the one I grew up in.
Lorilee Binstock 00:14:45
Yeah. I feel like awareness is everything. When you're conscious
about
your behaviors.
It's it's
so much easier to make changes
versus me before before I actually was aware of my
who what I was doing.
I was just going along thinking why
everyone's doing something wrong.
Kenneth Nixon 00:15:07
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:15:07
And that was really hard. That was really hard to to really fully be aware of my act my behaviors and how it
affected other people.
And actually be present in a in the moment versus, you know,
for the longest time, probably for twenty years, thirty years, I was disassociating.
Kenneth Nixon 00:15:27
Mhmm.
Lorilee Binstock 00:15:28
And so that was that was challenging.
You know, I wanna talk about
discrimination
of mental illness.
Kenneth Nixon 00:15:37
Mhmm.
Lorilee Binstock 00:15:39
And it's really interesting. I feel like this has been a whole thing
for the month of May, you know, we're right into in mental health awareness month. And just a few weeks ago,
I actually someone contributed to my magazine. She was not,
I guess, when I promoted her piece,
I had a lot of people reaching out saying, oh, this person's a liar.
She's you know, she she did have a warrant out for her arrest.
And they did say, like, oh, she's she's a she's a compulsive liar.
You can't have her on your show.
You know, I can't believe you let her contribute to this magazine. She's a fraud. I don't believe she even experienced trauma.
And my
my reaction to that was
all of this kind of proved she's experienced some sort of trauma, whether it's a trauma that she says she's experienced.
She still experienced trauma, and I feel like I I I want you to kind of go into discrimination of mental illness.
And and in that.
Kenneth Nixon 00:16:40
Yeah. Yeah.
In in my book, I
I dedicate a chapter
kind of to the the point you're getting at right now.
And I would count this under a form of cognitive
bias
where
individuals or or or groups of folks
kind of project their own
sense of right and wrong in their own feelings and their own perceptions
on whether or not someone experienced
something or not in into what degree.
And it requires
people to understand
that someone's truth is someone's truth. And it may manifest or look differently
Lorilee Binstock 00:17:20
Mhmm.
Kenneth Nixon 00:17:23
than what you may want it to look like
or what society says is normal. But if we start at the basis
of letting everyone share their story,
and how they
feel and how they perceive that they receive trauma
and go at it from
the side of love and deference,
I think we will get to a place where
we begin to allow people to share the same space now.
We do have to be grounded in a sense of of facts and truth
But the way trauma works
is
people have to be comfortable
in the space to be able to share their truth in a way that feels real and natural to them.
And sometimes
people
may not feel comfortable sharing their full truth in a way
that we may all like because they feel they're gonna be attacked
or they're going to be put in a position where
they are overexposed
and
don't wanna be in a position where they're too vulnerable.
So I would encourage people to really look at their own
form of
bias on their worldview, on how they grew up in how they see things and understand
every individual has their own set of experiences.
Have their own set of understandings,
and have their own set of feelings.
And even if that individual
is saying something that you don't necessarily agree with or that you feel is fully forthright,
it is okay
to let that individual
just speak. You don't have to always
point out the flaws
of someone else.
Sometimes just let them speak and move on.
Lorilee Binstock 00:19:23
Yeah. That's you know, that's
easier said than done. Right? I I I agree with you. Right? I'm you know, I've gotten to this point in my healing where
Kenneth Nixon 00:19:27
Mhmm.
Lorilee Binstock 00:19:32
I don't need to
you know, provide input on how someone else should live or how they're living or, you know, how
their trauma has affected them and how they should behave.
But it is I feel like when I was reading the comments, and and it was on it was think it was on my pay Facebook page,
and people were just saying all of these different things about this person. And I guess, you know, from from their perspective, I see, okay. There probably there's probably fear there that they could be,
Kenneth Nixon 00:20:03
Mhmm. Mhmm.
Lorilee Binstock 00:20:04
you know, scammed by this person.
And I think, you know, and, you know, I wanted to give them some compassion as well, but
it's it's it's so hard for people to
Kenneth Nixon 00:20:15
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:20:16
to really
separate themselves
from, you know because there's a good chance that, you know, family members or people that were surrounding them felt like they need to
Kenneth Nixon 00:20:20
Mhmm.
Lorilee Binstock 00:20:28
put their you know, have their input,
and then that's
kind of how we do things. Right?
Kenneth Nixon 00:20:34
Yeah. And it also could be coming from a place of feeling that they have to protect their own
mental health or the health of others who may
Lorilee Binstock 00:20:41
Exactly.
Yeah.
Kenneth Nixon 00:20:45
may come to listen to the content. So it could be a protection mechanism.
I I would say one of the the anecdotes that we need to
utilize more often
is connecting with one another in person. I know technology
is
that's done wonderful things for society
Lorilee Binstock 00:21:04
Yeah.
Kenneth Nixon 00:21:07
and globally.
But it's also disconnected
us in a way
that we don't have enough real
conversations
with real people in person
and connect in a way that
allows us to feel and
be surrounded by the spirit of people.
So I think more that needs to happen, but I I truly, truly understand
the sense of wanting to protect ones
own space,
and that could have been something that was being communicated
Lorilee Binstock 00:21:37
Yeah.
Kenneth Nixon 00:21:40
through Facebook.
Lorilee Binstock 00:21:43
You wrote born into crisis,
and
I wanna know what was your intention?
What did you hope to come out of this book.
Kenneth Nixon 00:21:55
Mhmm. So my hope was to reach
at least one individual.
I I wrote it with
it impacting
one person. If one person could read it and find
their
halved to self discovery,
to healing,
to getting a sense of agency and empowerment
to
act on their self interest, and I would
consider it successful. So the way I wrote it
was one to try to
have people feel that they're having a conversation with me, so I've broken into two parts.
One is my personal story. The second part is the call to action.
And I wanted to be able to allow people some insight into
my personal story, but I also wanted to give people the tools, the walkways
on
what they could potentially do to take those concrete steps to affect
not only changing their local community in their homes as individuals,
but as society as a whole
around this critical issue of mental health.
Lorilee Binstock 00:23:11
Yes. Our our mental health our our health system in America is is
You know, I have I I I have words. But, especially, when it when it when it comes to mental health,
Kenneth Nixon 00:23:21
Mhmm.
Lorilee Binstock 00:23:25
it's it's almost
non existent, it feels like. You know, people to get the right care for for a a therapist, especially trauma therapist,
I feel like everything's now out of out of pocket. Insurance isn't covering
a lot of it.
What would you what do you think we needs to be done
to really
revolutionize
our our mental health system health care system because I feel like it is a very daunting task, and a lot of people don't wanna touch it.
Kenneth Nixon 00:23:50
Mhmm.
Yes.
So the mental first of all, mental health
for those who are listening. Mental health is health. One of the first things we have to do is
decriminalize
mental health. And what do I mean by that
is we have to put in place the community based system
that was always supposed to go in place when we
did a mask the institutionalization
push back
in the sixty seventies and eighties where these massive mental health
institutions
were shuttered in its place supposed to be this community based system
that will holistically
treat individuals
and get them on a path to healing and sustainability
while they stayed in their communities, well, that system never got put in place.
In in that gap, you ended up with a system
in which individuals who are dealing with
mental health, whether it's anxiety
or it's a severe mental illness,
They end up in one of two places,
either in the local emergency room, which
ERs are intended for physical emergencies, not mental health emergencies,
and they end up in e r's not getting immediate treatment
or they end up in local jails.
And the fact
is is that the largest mental health treatment facilities
in this country today
still on local jails.
Think about that for a second. The largest mental health treatment facility
in the United States right now are local jails.
We need to shift that dynamic to a more humane form of treatment
that keeps people in their community that does not criminalize
mental illness,
but gives people their best shot at having happy thriving lives.
Lorilee Binstock 00:26:01
So would that be all community
organizations
that what what would we be able to put in place? What is
Kenneth Nixon 00:26:10
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:26:11
what would
Kenneth Nixon 00:26:11
So some of the work that
I am going through the organization.
I'm affiliated with Voice, which stands for Virginians, organized for
interfaith community engagement.
There's a three pronged stool to this process.
Some place to call
some place to go,
and
the the treatment and the services that wrap around the individual
that is getting treatment.
So one of the key pieces
that was put in place
that needs to be put in place
nationally.
And is the advent of the nine eight eight hotline number?
Which allows individuals
who
or their loved ones who are about to go into a mental health episode or in the middle of it. To have an alternative
to nine eleven,
to call nine eight eight and be connected to someone that they can talk to
that can help determine on what level
of illness that they own and what type of treatment do they need, whether it's just to speak with someone or that they actually need to speak to a clinical professional.
So that's that's the first piece. Really,
implementing and socializing
of the nine eight eight hotline number
for individuals to utilize.
The second piece is the infrastructure.
So in Virginia,
we're working really hard, and we've had some successes
in getting
funding to build out what are called
crisis receiving centers.
These are brick and mortar facilities that have two components.
One is a
a a twenty three hour
piece where individuals
in the community
Law enforcement can do drop offs instead of taking people to local jails.
People can just walk in
where someone is experiencing
anxiety
or they they feel that they need to talk to someone, and they can walk right off the street in
Speak get immediate treatment and speak with a professional, and they may need two hours. They may need four.
But they may need up to twenty three hours. The whole goal
is to make mental health services as accessible
as possible.
The second component to that crisis receiving center
is called
a short stay, a crisis stabilization
unit.
This is for individuals, whether they come through
drop off from
law enforcement
or family member or they walk in themselves
if it's determined that they need more in
intensive
in patient treatment for a short stay.
There's another component for a three to five day short stay for that individual
to get intensive inpatient treatment.
But when they depart, they don't just depart.
Without any tools or any resources they depart with wraparound services
that allows them to access continuous ongoing
care and treatment.
So in Virginia,
we
have a victory in which on Prince William County in Virginia, which is in Northern Virginia,
has done the groundbreaking
and should have a full crisis receiving center online by spring of next year. I know in Loudoun County where
That's also in Northern Virginia where they've
their local government has approved the funding to build their own
full crisis receiving center. And in Fairfax County, the most populous
jurisdiction in Virginia,
They're going to be putting up funding to finish out a full crisis receiving center as well.
So one of the things we need to do
is to make sure that not only are we breaking down the stigma, but we're
coming together to create what I call co collective power
to compel our local governments to begin building out that community based mental health system that was promised
to us over forty years ago.
Lorilee Binstock 00:30:27
Well, this is amazing. This is in Virginia.
What about countrywide?
Is this is do they do each individual state? Does does do they have
Kenneth Nixon 00:30:33
Mhmm.
Lorilee Binstock 00:30:38
similar goals to create this type of space.
Kenneth Nixon 00:30:42
Yeah. So I can speak so the model that
Virginia's following is based off of the federal
government's guidelines
in under the guise of a a crisis now model, which was pioneered
in Arizona.
Which we're trying to build our system based off of that crisis now model. So there are pockets in the country in Arizona.
I know there is
a facility in San Antonio, Texas.
There's also a facility
in Ohio,
and there's a good robust program in Florida, I believe.
So there are pockets where this is
taking hold and taking shape
in the country,
but it is not uniform throughout the country. And if we're going to get at true systematic
transformation,
we have to make a commitment
at the state level and the local level
across the country
to really commit
to
destigmatizing
and decriminalizing
mental health, and that is making a commitment
to the crisis now model of care.
Which will help us build out nationwide a community based
system of treatment.
So we get people to treatment and not incarceration.
So to answer your question, and it is in other pockets of the country, but there is no uniformity
across the country to implement this model.
Lorilee Binstock 00:32:13
Got it.
Do you believe that law enforcement
is equipped
to handle
people who
are dealing with mental health crisis.
Kenneth Nixon 00:32:24
Yes.
And no. I say yes from the standpoint
if if
law enforcement agencies,
and I know in Virginia,
a lot of our law enforcement agents who send
a lot of their police officers through crisis intervention training,
CIT.
And there's different levels of CIT training
from the introductory level all the way up to more advanced methods
to equip law enforcement to be able to identify
when they're dealing with the individual who's in a mental or in the middle of a mental health crisis.
But writ large,
law enforcement is not equipped
to deal with those who are in the middle of the mental health crisis,
and it can lead
to often tragic outcomes
when you're putting law enforcement in a position where they have to make snap decisions.
Lorilee Binstock 00:33:28
Mhmm.
Kenneth Nixon 00:33:29
And I can tell you
each law enforcement officer or agency that
I've encountered in Virginia
will
will be the first to stand up and say they are four.
Putting these prices receiving centers in place because they do not want to be involved in these type
situations.
They understand completely
that people who are in a mental health crisis need to see mental health professionals.
So
And and quite frankly, you're talking about law enforcement officers who have
who are veterans, who have been in wars who have their own traumas,
and we're oftentimes
Lorilee Binstock 00:34:09
Mhmm.
Kenneth Nixon 00:34:11
singing veterans
sometimes
into situations where we can potentially
trigger their mental health.
So it's incumbent upon us to
work with law enforcement
as well as like we are going in Virginia
to put in place a system that alleviates this unfunded mandate on law enforcement.
Lorilee Binstock 00:34:33
Well, I I'm
thank you so much for all of the information that you've provided in everything that you're doing. You've taken your story.
And found purpose
and really are pushing for action and advocacy and and and health care and focused on mental health, and
it's so admirable. And I
thank you so much for all that you do.
Is there anything that you would like to add?
Kenneth Nixon 00:35:04
Well, I would like to
leave your audience
and everyone with is that
none of us
controls
how we came into this world of the beginning.
But we do have a saying the conclusion.
And whatever way feels
comfortable for you, whatever way that you feel led or inspired,
if we're
going to get at truly shifting the paradigm on mental health.
It requires all of us, not just those who are directly impacted
but those who have loved ones who are impacted, those who know of someone who are impacted.
We are in mental health awareness month.
But when mental health awareness not ends at the beginning of June,
those same challenges are still there.
Those causes are still there.
The people that need
our support and our encouragement and our effort
to get them on a path of humane treatment is gonna still be there. And
however you feel red,
whether it's researching, whether it is direct action to to get the funding
or holding seminars to break down stigma.
We all owe it to future generations
to do something about it now.
Lorilee Binstock 00:36:31
Thank you very well, said. I appreciate you again for coming on.
And and sharing your story and
your input and and to
the crisis that we are all living in right now.
So thank you so much.
Kenneth Nixon 00:36:45
And thank you again, and I appreciate the work and the advocacy that you're
you're doing,
and
and I also appreciate the personality
that you put into it that
I've I've looked at your social media some as preparing for this, and it
that by itself can be an encouraging
method to help someone
find their way to not only dealing with their own
personal challenges,
but having a sense, hey. I can have a voice
too in a way that's comfortable to me. So thank you for your work as well.
Lorilee Binstock 00:37:24
Thank you. That That means a lot. That means a lot. You know, I
wanna do what I can, you know,
find my purpose. Right?
Well, thank you again.
Kenneth Nixon 00:37:34
Question.
Lorilee Binstock 00:37:36
That was Reverend Kenneth Nixon, Jr. Author of the memoir, born into crisis. For more information on Kenneth and his book, Click on that scrolling fortune cookie right there on your screen.
Also, May's issue of authentic insider is out Kenneth so graciously
contributed to May's issue.
Check out authentic insider at trauma survivor thriver dot com. That's trauma survivor thriver dot com if you haven't already, please subscribe to my email list to get authentic insider magazine in your inbox monthly.
We are taking a break next week, but we will be back in June for our last two episodes of season four. That'll be my hundredth episode. So
I hope you join us. Join me live when I speak with Jessica Lee DePatie, filmmaker of the documentary Dark Knight of our Soul, about post traumatic growth.
You've been listening to A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast on Fireside.
I'm Lorilee Binstock. Again, thank you for being a part of the conversation.
Take care.
This is a LIVE replay (edits made due to technical difficulties) of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast which aired Wednesday, May 17th, 2023 at 1130am ET on Fireside Chat.
Today’s guest is Noga Schechter, Mental Health and Disordered Eating Advocate.
Lorilee Binstock 00:00:28
Welcome. I'm Lorilee Binstock, and this is A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast.
Thank you so much for joining me live on Fireside where you can be a part of the conversation as my virtual audience. I am your host, Laura Lee Benstock.
Everyone has an opportunity to ask me or our guest questions by requesting to hop on stage or I'm sending a message in the chat box. I will try to get you, but I do ask that you'd be respectful.
Today's guest is Noga Schecther, Mental Health and Disordered Eating Advocate.
Noga, thank you so much for joining me today.
Noga Schechter 00:01:20
Oh my gosh. Thank you for having me.
I remember how I found you.
Lorilee Binstock 00:01:25
How did you find me?
Noga Schechter 00:01:27
I was just looking for an avenue
to to talk about these things, and I couldn't believe how they're just isn't that much out there.
And you were in really easy find because there just aren't as many dedicated
Lorilee Binstock 00:01:37
Yep.
Noga Schechter 00:01:43
places where you can start talking about these types of issues as much as one would think.
So I was really excited to find you.
Lorilee Binstock 00:01:49
Ma'am,
Oh, well, thank you. And I appreciate, you know, we've had conversations before, and you actually you shared with me,
even before we got on our phone call about
Noga Schechter 00:01:59
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:01:59
your your childhood trauma, which really
Noga Schechter 00:02:02
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:02:03
seem to extend until adulthood.
Would you mind sharing that?
Noga Schechter 00:02:10
Yeah. I I think,
you know, I grew up
For starters, an immigrant from Israel, I I I came here to the US when I was six.
And I grew up in an environment where there wasn't necessarily
a safe place.
My mom
was
very traumatized from her own childhood. She suffered from alcoholism,
and
lots of mental health issues.
My father, I think, at the time, was just trying to keep everything together as the glue of the family. So he was So
he was just really inundated with with crisis management. So
As a as a as a young girl, I I I was just always on my own.
You know? And and
that,
you know, when you're when you're a child, you don't know how to process things, especially pain.
Or discomfort or just truth. And so
I went about processing
I I went about most of my childhood with an inability to process the trauma that I
that I have in third.
Lorilee Binstock 00:03:29
I know you said your dad dealt with a lot of Christ management,
was he able
Noga Schechter 00:03:33
Again.
Lorilee Binstock 00:03:34
to comfort you?
Did you did you feel comfortable
sharing
any issues or pain you know,
children children need to share.
And so we're Was was he able to do that, or was it just, like, so overwhelming by just managing what he had to already manage?
Noga Schechter 00:03:45
Yeah. Yeah.
No.
Yeah. No. I was alone. I mean, I didn't have any comfort in my
We had don't get me wrong. I mean, we had fun moments as a family. We took vacations.
But in the day to day,
from when I can even remember,
I was processing alone. I was learning alone. I was processing alone. I was
dealing alone,
I did not have a comfortable space to go to go talk ever, ever.
Until
I reached you on the adulthood. Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:04:27
Wow. So and and, you know, not having
a person there for you. Especially as a child, that cat that is trauma.
Noga Schechter 00:04:33
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:04:36
There's trauma. When you have when when you're learning how to cope with something,
Noga Schechter 00:04:36
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:04:42
then you can't turn to an adult, that that must have been really hard.
Noga Schechter 00:04:47
Well, you know, you don't really know. I mean, you know that it's hard
I knew it was hard. I knew I was in pain, but I thought that that was normal.
Yeah. I I didn't really understand how
damaging my household was
until
the shoe dropped is what I call it. You know?
With young adult where you're looking around at your life, you know, in your mid twenties and you're like, why is everything wrong? You know,
So
it's you know, I use this word a lot right now. It's I use the word egoic construct.
Right? So I
I I was in an ego contract thinking that this was okay, this was normal, and this is whatever how everyone lived.
Lorilee Binstock 00:05:32
Mhmm.
Noga Schechter 00:05:33
Not having support being alone, you know, which caused a a huge
habit for magical thinking is what I call. What I call it,
Lorilee Binstock 00:05:44
Yeah.
Noga Schechter 00:05:44
you know, I went into
years and years of magical thinking, which is, you know,
we call it being a dreamer
as adults. But when you're a child and you don't have the ability to process your trauma,
you start hoping and wishing hoping and wishing all the time, and that's how one processes. And
you think the hoping and wishing hoping and wishing is going to change your environment and change your situations, but we know that that's not the case. Right? It's
it's with incremental actions that life changes.
So,
you know, there were some habits that I picked up from
essentially being alone,
and that I took into a thought that that became extremely unhealthy.
Lorilee Binstock 00:06:31
When was it that you
began to you said in your twenties, you started using did you start I know we were talking about trauma and disordered eating,
Noga Schechter 00:06:40
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:06:43
was when did you start using food to help you cope?
Noga Schechter 00:06:47
You know, I think I always did. You know? Like, I think I always
did
I think what I think it was really around puberty, like, around twelve or thirteen where I started really eating a lot
way beyond
peeling full.
And
but I have to be honest, it's just been a blur ever since because when you're in that state,
you know, this this
this crisis, this constant crisis, constant
coming.
It's hard to remember a lot of it. It feels like it's just so much of a blur.
Lorilee Binstock 00:07:24
Right.
Noga Schechter 00:07:25
But but, specifically,
when I was in my mid twenties, I was married. I I married really young.
Basically, a replica of my mother, you know, a big drinker, a big gambler, irresponsible,
not
not
reliable and
damaging. Just a very damaging relationship.
And that mimics my household.
Right? Because that's what you do.
Lorilee Binstock 00:07:54
Right. Right.
Noga Schechter 00:07:54
And
and I remember
those were the nights where I started to, like, eat myself to sleep.
You know? Like like, though that's when the behavior started becoming.
Lorilee Binstock 00:08:08
Mhmm.
Noga Schechter 00:08:09
Past self harm into,
like, I may be killing myself.
Lorilee Binstock 00:08:14
Wow.
Noga Schechter 00:08:16
And and and it's over time. Right? It doesn't happen. It it the body is a pro is is
Lorilee Binstock 00:08:16
Mom.
Noga Schechter 00:08:22
the human body is is a progression.
It's a snapshot of a of a progression. Right? It's not it's not what it is right now, what you're doing right now.
So over time,
I was essentially
almost killing myself. I was
My hormones were totally out of whack because when I was eating,
I I had gird. I I I I was pretty diabetic.
I got up to three hundred and sixteen pounds. That was the heaviest. But
Lorilee Binstock 00:08:50
Well,
Noga Schechter 00:08:53
really, in young adulthood, like, my mid twenties into my late twenties is when I started self harming.
And that was
doing it past the point, like, eating past the point of full, past the point of over eating, and into the place of I hate myself,
so I'm going to eat until I'm tired and I go to sleep.
So
Lorilee Binstock 00:09:18
You know, he yeah.
Go ahead.
Noga Schechter 00:09:21
yeah. That's I mean, that's where
I that's where I initially got. And
I knew everything was wrong. I I didn't know how happy I was. I you know you look in the mirror, but
I didn't I didn't fully understand what was going on. I it was still very much, so I was in a place of
slight mania,
crisis,
pain.
I couldn't see straight. I didn't know anything outside of that construct.
Lorilee Binstock 00:09:52
You know,
eating disorders, I feel like it can be really difficult because you said what stuck out to me was I think I think I always
Noga Schechter 00:09:53
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:10:01
was just using food as a coping mechanism.
Noga Schechter 00:10:03
Yeah.
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:10:05
And it's hard because it's, like, you have to eat. You have it's not like drugs. Right? Like, it's not one of those things. Like, oh, you see someone doing cocaine. You know, that
Noga Schechter 00:10:12
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:10:15
we need to do something. Like, you see someone eating and you don't realize, especially at a young age. Like, oh, they're just they're just eating.
This is what people do. They eat.
Noga Schechter 00:10:24
Yeah. Yeah.
It's tricky. You know, I think I've done a lot of reading. I mean, I I've read
arguably
close to four hundred human behavior books.
And
eating disorders,
I think, are one of the most complicated.
Monoclonal illnesses
out there, and they also have
the highest rate of fatality
Lorilee Binstock 00:10:49
Yep.
Noga Schechter 00:10:50
out of all dental onagers,
and there's only a six percent
I think it's something between six and eight percent of all people with
with this disease
heal.
Meaning
the healing rate of
Lorilee Binstock 00:11:09
Yeah.
Noga Schechter 00:11:09
of
of this is
virtually impossible.
And and I think the reason that is
is because
there there's a few things. Right? One is
society.
Actually, so many people have anything disorders. They just don't even know it. Right? Like,
Lorilee Binstock 00:11:28
Yeah.
Noga Schechter 00:11:29
the way that we the way that we treat food and the way that we
have anxiety
any any anxiety over food is essentially part of that disease.
Lorilee Binstock 00:11:43
Mhmm.
Noga Schechter 00:11:44
So so it's not just the person that overeat, it's the person that's not restrict.
It's also the person that is at the gym constantly and is only eating chicken and broccoli
Lorilee Binstock 00:11:51
Right.
Noga Schechter 00:11:55
saying that this is the healthy way to be because that's the other side of the anxiety.
Right? You're still having you're still attaching
Lorilee Binstock 00:12:02
Yeah.
Noga Schechter 00:12:05
unhealthy
anxiety around food.
So it's not just over eating, and you're overweight. It's super, super, super skinny or super, super, super muscular.
Lorilee Binstock 00:12:17
Right.
Noga Schechter 00:12:17
You know, all of that's super, super, super, anything
is is related. And so I think I think it's society telling us, you know,
how to act with food
that makes it difficult. But I think the other piece that makes
in any sort of so difficult
is
it involves self loading,
and
self loading
is probably
one of the most complicated
scenarios
to to to unwind.
Because you couldn't be further from the truth.
Right? So so so so so I think the the more we gravitate from the truth. Truth of the universe truth of what is
Lorilee Binstock 00:12:55
Yeah.
Noga Schechter 00:13:03
the sicker we got. Right?
So self loathing
Lorilee Binstock 00:13:06
Yep.
Noga Schechter 00:13:07
takes
everything about you and hates it.
Right? So when you're eating this order, it's not I oh, I'm eating too much. It's I hate myself twenty four hours a day.
And and and that and that's impossible.
Right? Because
to think about it. You know, it's sunny
it's sunny over here in California, and it's raining in New York. Somebody is being born and somebody is dying, and I may be overweight, but I might have nice hair.
I might be overweight, but I have a great sister.
When you take all of that and just say everything sucks and I sucks. How do you unwind that? It's so
so
suffered. It's so distant from the truth.
Lorilee Binstock 00:13:53
Yeah.
That's so interesting.
Noga Schechter 00:13:54
And that's, I think, the most I think, that's the most complicated part of the eating disorder because The only way to unwind it is one strand at a time.
Yes. Yes. I'm three hundred pounds, but my hair is beautiful and curly. Step one.
Step two. Yeah. Yes. I'm three hundred pounds. But,
you know, I have great skin. Yes. Yes. I'm three hundred pounds. My grandmother was wonderful. Like, just starting to just pull apart the thought
into something more realistic, which is so many different things can can can be true at the same time. But when you're self loading,
everything is clumped into one terrible thought, and and it's it takes a very long time, time line. And I think that that's why it's one of the most complicated
mental illnesses to carry.
Lorilee Binstock 00:14:45
That's so interesting when you say, like, the self loading and the clumping and putting it all together. Because there are times when I am, like, so angry,
Noga Schechter 00:14:50
Oh, yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:14:53
And even though I know that I enjoy multiple things that's happened in the last few days, all of a sudden it's like, god.
Noga Schechter 00:14:57
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:15:01
My life sucks.
Everything everything's everything's so screwed up. But the truth is, it's like,
Noga Schechter 00:15:02
Yeah. Yeah.
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:15:07
it feels like that now.
Feels like that when things when you feel like you're stuck, but the truth is there were so many wonderful things
dispersed in all of the that that emotion
And you're right. It's really hard to unravel that.
Noga Schechter 00:15:20
Exactly.
Exactly.
Exactly. I I I you know, some people call it black and white thinking.
Lorilee Binstock 00:15:29
Mhmm. Yep.
Noga Schechter 00:15:31
It's it couldn't be further from the truth of the universe. It couldn't be further from the truth
to to to generalize and to clunk thought.
But when you clunks thought
to I hate myself all the time, where do you do with that? Where do you go with that? Because she leaves processing that is so
can be very difficult.
Lorilee Binstock 00:15:53
Yeah. Because I guess you just focus on the one thing that ruins everything. Right?
Noga Schechter 00:15:59
Yeah. Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:15:59
And so then you go to every extreme.
Noga Schechter 00:16:02
Every aspect of you. You're rejecting
your entire
self
in this universe.
And the last step to that is eating.
Right? Like, the food, the restriction of the food, or they're eating too much,
or they're only eating
specific food,
that's the last piece of this of this disease.
It's just, like, the very last outcome.
The core of it is
rejection of
or
the core of it is is is the inability to process the way you're processing information from the outside world into the inside
is
Lorilee Binstock 00:16:44
Yeah.
Noga Schechter 00:16:45
yeah.
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:16:47
When did you realize that this was the something needed to change? You said you were over three hundred pounds at one point.
When when were you like, wow. I really need need to make a change in my life.
Noga.
Noga, are you there?
No. I think I lost you or maybe you are talking, and I'm
no. Were you there?
Let's hold on just a moment. Let's see if we can get her back.
Noca, can you are you still there?
Nogue, are you still there? May I get you?
Noga Schechter 00:18:31
I happened.
What a glitch.
Okay. I'm back. I'm back.
Lorilee Binstock 00:18:35
Oh, okay.
So, yeah, so I was getting I'm sorry for I can hear you perfectly.
Noga Schechter 00:18:40
Do you hear me okay?
Lorilee Binstock 00:18:45
What my last question before it dropped was
What changed? What made you realize that a change needed to be made?
Are you there?
Something happened?
Noga, can you hear me?
Think we've run into an issue.
Noga Schechter 00:19:31
Lorly, do you hear me?
Lorilee Binstock 00:19:33
I can hear you. Can you hear me okay?
Hello?
Hello? Can you hear me?
Noga.
Nogie, can you hear me?
Hello?
Noga, can you hear me okay?
Noga Schechter 00:20:18
Hello?
Lorilee Binstock 00:20:18
Hello? Can you hear me?
Can you hear me?
Hello?
Noga, can you hear me?
Noga, can you hear me okay?
Hello, Noga?
Nogou, are you there? Can you hear me?
No wonder what's happening.
Hey, Noga.
Noga Schechter 00:22:17
Do you hear me, Lauraly?
Lorilee Binstock 00:22:20
I can. Can you hear me?
Noga Schechter 00:22:22
Oh my gosh. We're back.
Lorilee Binstock 00:22:24
Oh, we're back. You hear me? Can you hear me?
Noga Schechter 00:22:26
I can hear you. I'm so excited.
Lorilee Binstock 00:22:27
Oh, okay.
Noga Schechter 00:22:29
That's so weird.
Lorilee Binstock 00:22:30
No. No worries.
Noga Schechter 00:22:32
What was that? The universe doesn't make mistakes.
Lorilee Binstock 00:22:33
Yes.
Well, I want yeah. I I I don't know if you heard my last question,
Noga Schechter 00:22:41
Mhmm.
Lorilee Binstock 00:22:42
but I did wanna ask when you when did you realize that
you needed to make a change. I know you there was a point you said that you got to three hundred over three hundred pounds.
Noga Schechter 00:22:48
Yeah.
So I had lost
Lorilee Binstock 00:22:54
Was it run then?
Noga Schechter 00:22:55
well, so I lost a hundred and fifth fifty pounds
with a trainer.
And eating all the right foods. That took me about thirteen, fourteen months to do naturally.
And then
shortly after I found myself about seven months later,
gained all of it back
plus some. And
there was this area. There was a point in my life where I was I was
Lorilee Binstock 00:23:26
Mhmm.
Noga Schechter 00:23:30
I was right back to where I started. I was I was eating
just to fall asleep.
And
I remember waking up in the morning one day
in the rented apartment I was living in Los Angeles,
and
I was, like, choking on last night's food.
And I remember I lived by the beach, and I and I went to the beach. It was, like, sunset. I don't know if you've ever seen a California sunset. It's gorgeous. It's, like, blue. It can turn blue and purple and orange, and
and I was sitting outside. And I said,
I had this I I don't wanna call it an aha moment because I hate when people
Lorilee Binstock 00:24:10
Yeah.
Noga Schechter 00:24:12
say that. We're such pro we're everything is such progression.
You know? But
Lorilee Binstock 00:24:17
Right.
Noga Schechter 00:24:18
I
I did have this moment where I where I said to myself
something else is really wrong here. It's not food. It's not what I'm eating. It's not the exercise.
Like, something is wrong
way past my ability
to understand what is wrong.
So that was the moment
where I
first fully understood
that I was in
a construct.
And and so a lot of the spiritual teachers talk about this. I I I I at this point, I was not under any spiritual
guidance or I I would I didn't have a spiritual teacher. This is all just very independent.
But I I had realized
that
the entire way I was processing information
was off.
The entire identity
was off.
And it's because I was sitting there, and I and I I remember I had this very spiritual awakening. I was looking at the sunset,
and I was looking at how beautiful it was.
And then I was I was looking at
yeah. I was looking at the sunset. I think my dad texted saying it was snowing in New York.
Lorilee Binstock 00:25:41
Mhmm.
Noga Schechter 00:25:42
And then I was looking at the ocean, and I was feeling my pain. And I there were so many different things going on at one time.
That I then asked myself if there's so many different things going on at one time in this very moment, how can it be that I suck all the time.
How can that be possible?
If if the sunset over there is really, really beautiful, and that ocean is really, really beautiful. And my dad is texting me about snow.
And there are there are so many different things going on right now. How is it? That no good sector
sucks twenty four seven.
And
I have this moment where I'm like, that's impossible.
That's far that's not the truth. So why do I keep thinking it?
And then I realized I was sick.
My brain was sick.
The way I was thinking about things was sick. I I was sick. I when I say sick, I don't mean I'm disease. I'm the problem.
I I don't mean in that way.
I mean,
the tools that were I was separating and the tools that were giving to me to do this whole adult life thing were not the correct tools.
Lorilee Binstock 00:26:52
You are suffering.
Noga Schechter 00:27:00
And they were harming me. And and
and I think that was the first moment where I realized
that my eating disease and my eating order and all the way in on my body and all these things that I
hated so much about myself,
had nothing to do with who I really was.
Lorilee Binstock 00:27:16
Right.
Noga Schechter 00:27:21
And so I checked myself into
that week, I checked myself into an eating disorder facility.
With a white flag up all the way to the moon. And I remember walking into that place saying, please teach me how to live. Because I don't I don't know how I don't know how to live. And I
Lorilee Binstock 00:27:42
No.
Noga Schechter 00:27:48
I haven't been in a sense.
Lorilee Binstock 00:27:50
Wow.
So how did you change your relationship with food because we are exposed to food all the time. And
Noga Schechter 00:27:52
Yeah.
Yeah. I just had this conversation with one of my coaches a few weeks ago. It was the best conversation. I think we've both had in a long time.
Lorilee Binstock 00:28:07
I'd love to hear it.
Noga Schechter 00:28:08
Yeah.
I'd love to share it.
I think the way to heal this isn't just for eating disorder. This is for anything in life.
I think the way to heal is to just become indifferent.
To the outcome. And so what do I mean by that?
I eliminated
all anxiety around food. There is no anxiety around food in my brain anymore.
I eat cookies. I eat adjust ate of agave potato chips like twenty minutes ago.
I eat pizza. I eat pasta. Of course, I eat healthy most of the time.
Right? But I eat healthy most of the time out of the place of self love, not out of the place of anxiety, self hate.
Lorilee Binstock 00:28:54
Mhmm.
Noga Schechter 00:29:02
I hate my body. I want my way smaller. I don't do that anymore.
So so I I eliminated
the entire story around food because the story I had around food was
was skewed.
It wasn't healthy. So
Lorilee Binstock 00:29:17
Mhmm.
Noga Schechter 00:29:19
then I realized I was with this trainer
who was trying to
pack another story
about food.
A different story.
Like,
protein and
no carbs at night and you know, like, all that story. And then so so so if you have a broken spirit
and then you have a broken story
about food on that sits on top of the broken spirit.
And then you go seek help,
and then you get another broken story to put on top of the broken story, on top of the broken spirit, of course, you're gonna wanna gain your way back.
Of course, because now your spirit is double broken.
Lorilee Binstock 00:29:59
Mhmm.
Noga Schechter 00:30:04
Right? Because you just you just pour you just packed another story
Lorilee Binstock 00:30:05
Yeah.
Noga Schechter 00:30:09
on top of the broken spirit around food. So what I realized is none of the stories are true.
The body knows
once you quiet
down the anxiety. The body knows exactly what it wants.
When it when it needs it, what it wants. It knows exactly what to do.
And if it doesn't,
if it doesn't, that usually means there's a hormonal imbalance, which is great news,
great news because if there's a hormonal
imbalance,
there's ways to treat that.
Lorilee Binstock 00:30:41
Mhmm.
Noga Schechter 00:30:42
Right? But if there's no hormonal imbalance,
Lorilee Binstock 00:30:43
Right.
Noga Schechter 00:30:45
then the body if once you quiet down all the anxiety and all the stories around food, it knows intuitively exactly what it needs when it needs it. And that's that's the journey I went on because I realized that my spirit was broken.
And and it hadn't and and so it was the stories around food that I just had to completely eliminate. And and I I I've spent a decade doing that.
Lorilee Binstock 00:31:00
So
And how do you change those stories? And is is is that what eliminated the anxiety?
Is that the is is
eliminating the story exactly what's going to eliminate the anxiety around the food.
Noga Schechter 00:31:24
Yeah.
I wish it were that simple. I wish.
I wish I were that simple.
The the stories go away
when the body
normalizes.
So everyone's body every human body has a natural balance.
For instance, I'm never gonna do that skinny. It's not no it's not my the nature of my body to do that skinny. It's never gonna happen. And if I if it does happen,
I may be abusing myself somehow.
Right? Because so the most so so what you wanna do first is just
what I did, for instance, is I I just treated all food that it would break down in a certain way.
And I I did retrain myself into feeling full. So the feeling of full is something that I used to ignore.
So, you know, you wanna get past the point of self harm. And so that takes therapy,
Lorilee Binstock 00:32:21
Mhmm.
Noga Schechter 00:32:22
meditation,
being present,
starting to challenge your thoughts. You know, we talked about the spaghetti,
the pulling out, the loathing. Right? So one strands out of time. I was just evaluating things that were great.
And then the things that weren't great, instead of hating myself for them, I attached incremental actions on how to essentially fix them, which I'm still doing at thirty nine years old.
Lorilee Binstock 00:32:47
Yeah.
Noga Schechter 00:32:48
I'm still doing it. And so what happens over time is the body normal lives, and then you realize, wait if I eat a slice of pizza, I'm not gonna gain five pounds. That's
that's not what happened.
Maybe you do for, like, a day because you're bloated or whatever, but that's not what happens. Pizza actually is part of the universe.
So here's the truth about pizza. It's part of the universe, and it breaks down in in your body as nutrients. It that's the only truth about pizza.
And and your body does need a balance of nutrients if you eat pizza. The body will know if you listen to it
that
that was a lot of carbs, and you might need it'll it might start to crave some chicken. Mine does. Right? So if I if I'll have pizza a few hours later,
Lorilee Binstock 00:33:33
Mhmm.
Noga Schechter 00:33:35
like, clockwork. I'll want some chicken or steak
or some kind of protein
Lorilee Binstock 00:33:39
Right.
Noga Schechter 00:33:40
to balance.
But take all of those together, and it breaks down into nutrients in your body. I don't attach the pizza as bad, steak as bad, or
only eat potatoes at this hour. I don't do that anywhere.
I let my body decide.
Lorilee Binstock 00:33:57
So is it
So when it came to the trauma,
did that is is that part of the strand of
Noga Schechter 00:34:02
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:34:06
of working each and every bit of trauma that you've experienced out.
Noga Schechter 00:34:14
So with trauma relief and trauma healing,
first of all,
I'm to go viewing that. So
That's like a never ending.
Lorilee Binstock 00:34:23
It's a constant right. It's a constant journey.
Noga Schechter 00:34:24
It's a constant. And and you and you and I talked about this. Right? Like,
it's a constant journey.
And and and nobody
no. First of all, I do wanna tell if any if anyone is suffering from an eating disorder, I just wanna tell you that's beautiful, great news.
Because
you're gonna have the best journey of your life or healing, and and and it it's such a guest. It's a different way of living.
But when it comes to trauma, you know, sometimes you have it in early life.
Sometimes you have it midlife and sometimes you have it later.
It's only a matter of when. Right? It's not if. It's what. So
Lorilee Binstock 00:35:02
Mhmm.
Noga Schechter 00:35:05
the thing about early life trauma like my like, I have what they call complex
trauma because it's not necessarily
what
what I got. It's what I didn't get.
Lorilee Binstock 00:35:13
One event.
Noga Schechter 00:35:16
Right?
Lorilee Binstock 00:35:17
Mhmm.
Noga Schechter 00:35:19
And and the thing about that is, you know, you
your first three years of life, your first, like, you know, decade of life,
you're coming in from the spirit world or the animal world, as a newborn baby, and then your guardians are then helping to shape your egoic construct
to make you successful or make you give you the ability to do well in the man world
the man made world, which is what we live day today.
So I lacked those skills. So it wasn't just about, you know, sitting with the pain, processing, the trauma. I was also re
engineering
how
how I am to behave.
Right? Like,
Lorilee Binstock 00:36:03
Mhmm.
Noga Schechter 00:36:04
my soul knows the truth. How do I take that truth and then integrate it in my day to day? Well, if your parents didn't appreciate you for who you were or didn't
let you
be who you were,
you're gonna be hiding that, and you're gonna be hiding behind these actions that are not
true to who you are, and that's when eating starts and the inability to process starts. And so it's also the reverse reengineering
of that of going back to almost when I was a child saying, okay. How do I learn now? How to be true to myself?
How do I learn
if I feel something, if my soul is telling me something, if if I feel spiritually about something, that that's a signal.
That that's a signal of who noga is. How do I take that signal and push it out into my day to day?
That's the healing of the trauma
passed the sit passed the
the the healing of the pain. Right? So it kinda comes in two stages.
Lorilee Binstock 00:37:05
Mhmm.
Noga Schechter 00:37:08
I can't reiterate enough how much I'm still doing that
till this day.
Lorilee Binstock 00:37:12
Yeah.
Yeah. It is an ongoing journey. It's one of those things that it's, like, you know, three steps forward, two steps back, four steps for. It it
Noga Schechter 00:37:16
Yes.
Lorilee Binstock 00:37:22
it's constantly changing. I think that's that was a big thing for me to understand.
Noga Schechter 00:37:26
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:37:27
Was that
oh, I
three steps forward, I failed
because that's not how it works. And and I feel like I I feel like people told me that it just never clicked, and then one moment it did click, and it was like, okay. I you know, I'm gonna have setbacks. How am I going to pick myself up? And
Noga Schechter 00:37:36
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:37:49
learn from whatever setbacks. So, you know, the next time, I'm at least four steps forward before I go a couple steps back.
Noga Schechter 00:37:57
Yeah. I I I struggle with it too even till this day, but I think the biggest part is I no longer use food
to help process those days.
Lorilee Binstock 00:38:08
Mhmm. Yes.
Noga Schechter 00:38:09
Now I now I sit with the actual feelings, and then I try to integrate
into my day,
that's that's the the healing of the eating disorder.
By the way,
on the flip side of the coin, that's the gift.
That's the gift because
in this life,
very few people get an opportunity
to live that authentically
to learn how to
align themselves with
the true essence of who they are into their day to day. It's like we we have no choice but to live with intention.
Lorilee Binstock 00:38:48
Mhmm.
Noga Schechter 00:38:50
And so I think, you know, I remember being in treatment, and they were like, they gave me this book. I forget the name of it because I just wanted to throw it across the room.
Lorilee Binstock 00:38:58
Yeah.
Noga Schechter 00:38:59
And it was it was, like, something about having an eating disorder as a gift. And I was, like,
Lorilee Binstock 00:39:05
Oh, I could see where you'd be like, oh my god. You're not there yet. Right? You're not there yet.
Noga Schechter 00:39:06
Like,
I'm like, how does it get worse than myth? You know?
Wow.
It's so true.
It's so true because you have, you know, to heal. There's no choice but authenticity.
Like, I can't even I can't even work
Lorilee Binstock 00:39:22
Right.
Noga Schechter 00:39:25
on things I don't believe in.
Lorilee Binstock 00:39:28
That's a good thing.
Noga Schechter 00:39:28
I can't I can't even have a job or, like, I don't wing So everything has to be true because
the the thing about overeating or restricting or anything along those lines is that is the last piece, as I mentioned before, it's the last piece of the problem.
Right?
Lorilee Binstock 00:39:45
Mhmm.
Noga Schechter 00:39:46
So
So it's a it's been a gift.
You know? But the the weight came off a second time
through
this the the spiritual healing.
Lorilee Binstock 00:39:58
And it stayed off.
Noga Schechter 00:39:58
And
oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. Now I exercise every day. I exercise
Lorilee Binstock 00:40:02
That's the thing.
Noga Schechter 00:40:05
every day.
That's it. That's crazy. If you were to tell me ten years ago that I would be waking up every morning at four thirty to make a five AM hit class, I would
I would have called you the biggest lawyer in the world, and it's it's interesting.
All the anxiety around exercise has gone too. Like, I don't
I don't wake up saying,
oh, I don't feel like going to the gym. I don't wake up saying, oh, I have to go work out.
I don't do any of that. I I wake up and I go, okay. It's time to get up.
My body needs to
needs some energy.
Let's go give it some energy.
Lorilee Binstock 00:40:43
Mhmm.
Yeah.
Noga Schechter 00:40:46
You know? It's
Lorilee Binstock 00:40:48
It's it's it's it's interesting how things change when you start to heal, and I think it's
it's hilarious what you said about the book when you first got it because you're still in the beginning of the journey. It's like when I was driving in through the gate, at my residential treatment center for trauma.
Noga Schechter 00:41:03
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:41:05
It says,
expect a miracle to the front, and it was it's this big sign.
Noga Schechter 00:41:09
Oh, oh, that's the you're like, are you crazy?
Lorilee Binstock 00:41:10
And I was just like, oh,
exactly.
Noga Schechter 00:41:13
Like,
miracle your way over to the Atlantic Ocean.
Okay. Like,
Lorilee Binstock 00:41:19
Yep. It was it I I read I will never forget thinking
what is whatever. And then leaving
when I left was when I was, like, I get it now. I get it now. This is what it's like to start healing. I was there for thirty one days,
Noga Schechter 00:41:31
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:41:35
and
Noga Schechter 00:41:35
Oh, you were. Okay. Can I okay? Let me ask you a question.
Lorilee Binstock 00:41:36
I was there for
Noga Schechter 00:41:39
I wonder if you relate to this, but
Lorilee Binstock 00:41:41
Yes.
Noga Schechter 00:41:43
Do you look back do you look back at treatment and and tell yourself
everyone should do this?
Lorilee Binstock 00:41:51
I do. I do. I do. I I feel very fortunate that I was able to, and, you know, I'm careful because
Noga Schechter 00:41:55
Right.
Lorilee Binstock 00:41:58
I, you know, I wish I could tell everybody, and and insurance does cover it for the most part, but there are a lot of people who can't afford it. Right? So, you know, no. When I got out, I was like, oh my gosh. Whenever I knew someone whenever I talked to someone who is struggling, like, you need to check this place out.
Noga Schechter 00:42:05
Right. Right. Totally. Totally.
Lorilee Binstock 00:42:15
It's it's it's not cheap. If if insurance won't cover it, it is it's real it
Noga Schechter 00:42:16
Right.
Right. Right.
It's it's astronomical.
It kinda makes you wonder
Lorilee Binstock 00:42:21
but everyone needs it.
Noga Schechter 00:42:23
it yeah. And it just makes you wonder how lacking that education and that's you know,
Lorilee Binstock 00:42:28
Exactly.
Noga Schechter 00:42:29
it's just so lacking. You know, even till this day, I just found a coach
who's probably the best coach I've ever had in my life.
Okay? It's taking me thirty nine years to find them in, like, thirteen cities.
Right? Like, so so we have to search through the crevices
to to get
to sometimes get the treatment that we need.
And that that makes me sad.
Lorilee Binstock 00:42:54
And it does.
It's very sad. I went to I went to a step down program
Noga Schechter 00:42:55
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:42:59
right after. Right? I went to full residential treatment, and then I had to go somewhere else for a partial hospitalization
to kind of just wean my way out of it.
Noga Schechter 00:43:07
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:43:09
And it wasn't the same. I I I was like, you know, no. I went to this place, and I was like,
Noga Schechter 00:43:11
No. No. It's not.
Lorilee Binstock 00:43:16
if I went here first,
I would not be where I am now. So that's another thing. You have to weave through the hundreds and thousands of treatment centers out there, and I think that's also the hard part because then you spend your money on a place,
Noga Schechter 00:43:25
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:43:33
that is that you
it gets decent reviews
and good reviews even,
but your it doesn't really
fully
teach you what some others do.
Noga Schechter 00:43:44
Okay.
Yeah. I think you know the the other tricky part about all this is that it's so individualized,
and everybody has different needs. You know? And and so, like, I can generalize
Lorilee Binstock 00:43:52
Right.
Noga Schechter 00:43:55
a hundred times over and over, but
everybody gets different things from different places. And I think we just I, for some reason, you know, I'm a very,
very spiritual person. I mean, to the tenth power.
This whole process has made me believe in the universe.
You know, I believe if you were to see my before picture
and you were to see me now,
it's not a typical before and after. I look absolutely
nothing
like I did.
Lorilee Binstock 00:44:25
What what happens?
Noga Schechter 00:44:26
That's, like,
Lorilee Binstock 00:44:27
I'm just curious. What happens when you look back at those the old your old photos of you? Because they're they are drastic, and I am going I I'll try to put it up. I'm gonna try to put it up on the thing. But
Noga Schechter 00:44:28
Yeah.
I don't eat.
It is plastic.
Yeah. Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:44:37
how do you feel when you look at those older pictures?
Noga Schechter 00:44:40
Interesting question.
I just
I don't even
remember
those times.
Because I was in
so much pain all the time. It it just it scared my ability to even, like, have
that much of a memory.
Lorilee Binstock 00:45:05
Mhmm.
Noga Schechter 00:45:05
I just know that the biggest changes that were made the the one thing I would do think about is that the biggest changes that were made from them to now were not physical. They were not concentrated
on food.
Or exercise.
They were concentrated
on finding my truth,
connecting with my soul,
working on building better friendships,
working on
on on a construct,
like, when we say, you know, the some of the tech geeks out there or people have to say sometimes we're it could be we're in a simulation.
We are in a simulation. You're in the simulation of your ego.
So so so when I look back when I look back at those photos,
Lorilee Binstock 00:45:49
I'm just saying, yeah.
Noga Schechter 00:45:53
I just think of all the work I've done reconstructing
every
aspect of my life,
one at a time,
and down to I mean, how I how I think about movies and what TV shows I watch, and there's specific music I stopped listening to.
Like, certain clothes I won't buy. Like, there's just things that like, I just say, what supports my best self?
And and though when I look back at that picture, I think about how different
that journey was in comparison
to
eat this, eat that here at your plan, go to the gym twice a day, see the trainer four times a week, spend all your money on. You know? It's so
different.
Lorilee Binstock 00:46:40
Well,
Noga Schechter 00:46:41
Yeah. Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:46:42
what a transformation?
I think it's It's amazing.
Noga Schechter 00:46:44
Uh-huh. Thank you.
Lorilee Binstock 00:46:46
More so emotionally
and mentally, which is so impressive,
Noga Schechter 00:46:49
Yeah.
Thank you. I'm impressed with you.
Lorilee Binstock 00:46:51
and so so much to be proud of.
Noga Schechter 00:46:54
I'm impressed with you and your podcast and your and your insider magazine and the fact that you let people speak about these things
Lorilee Binstock 00:46:54
Oh, you're so sweet.
Noga Schechter 00:47:02
I wish we had more outlets. I wish people
knew
that it's totally okay to be going through this stuff so many people do.
And I think the more we speak about it, the better it is for others.
Lorilee Binstock 00:47:12
Yeah.
Yeah. Yeah. There's a in my upcoming magazine,
there was a contributor,
Rachel Lemmon, who writes about vicarious
resilience.
The more you listen to other people or see other people's resilience, it builds a little bit of resilience in yourself
to help you get to that point. So, yes, we need to keep talking.
We need to keep
sharing these stories. I think it's extremely important to help so many other people.
So thank you. Nope.
Noga Schechter 00:47:45
I agree.
Oh, with pleasure.
With pleasure.
I just wish anybody that's going through this knows that
It's an absolute gift,
and only the the only only the best is yet to come.
Lorilee Binstock 00:48:00
Amazing.
Well, thank you again for joining me today. I really appreciate it.
Noga Schechter 00:48:05
Thanks for having me. Thanks for having me. Have a great rest of day.
Lorilee Binstock 00:48:08
Absolutely.
You too.
Noga Schechter 00:48:11
Okay.
Lorilee Binstock 00:48:11
That was Noga Shector, mental health and disordered eating advocate. For more information on Noga, you can click there on the scrolling fortune cookie on your screen. Also, Mace issue of Authentic Insiders is out. Check out authentic Insiders at trauma survivor thriver dot com. That's trauma survivor, thriver dot com. If you haven't already, please subscribe to my email list to get authentic insider in magazine in your inbox monthly.
Thank you for joining me today. Join me live next week when I speak with Kenneth Nixon Jr. Author of Born into Chaos as he shares his experience with a mother who was mentally ill and how he thinks
the mental health care system can be fixed. You've been listening to a trauma survivor Thrivers podcast on Fireside. I'm Laura Lee, Ben Stock. Thank you for being a part of the conversation.
Take care.
This is a LIVE replay (edits made due to technical difficulties) of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast which aired Wednesday, May 10th, 2023 at 1130am ET on Fireside Chat.
Today’s guest is Reverend Rex ShadesEagle, Author of the book Know LOVE: A Memoir.
Click here for more information on Rex’s Ride4Life and his book, Know LOVE.
This is a LIVE replay of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast which aired Wednesday, May 3rd, 2023 at 1130am ET on Fireside Chat.
Lorilee Binstock 00:00:18
Welcome. I'm Lorilee Binstock, and this is A Trauma Survivor Thrivers Podcast.
Thank you so much for joining me live on Fireside Chat where you can be a part of the conversation as my virtual audience. I am your host, Lorilee Binstock. Everyone has an opportunity to hop on stage. And, actually, I'm hoping people like to would like to hop on stage and and ask any questions or just chat with me today,
but I do ask that everybody be respectful. I am your host, Lorilee Binstock.
So please, some you know, I would love for people to share in this conversation. I know while this is an interview format show, I did have a guest. However, I did receive a lot of backlash.
From so many people about this
I will not name this guest, but I did confirm that she was dealing with
some legal issues for alleged fraud and scamming people out of a lot of money.
But with that, and trying to respond to everyone who commented on my Facebook page, I felt there really needed to be a conversation around mental health and the realization
that you know, hurt people
hurt people. And I know I also received backlash. Like, why are you canceling this person?
And and I'll get to all of that.
But I do ask that, you know, people join me. It looks like I actually have hold on. Let me see if I can get Kelly up on the stage.
In it to invite them to speak. Cali is actually
my I don't know if you know how to get on stage, but I think there's a
button or something that can actually
allow you to come on stage.
No. I think I have you on stage.
Cali, do I have you?
So
if if Cali is able to speak,
she is actually my creative director for the magazine for so for anybody who checks out Authentic Insider Magazine
and who's commented how beautiful
how beautifully curated the pages are. It's actually all Kelly Benstock. I really, really everything
is is really from the contributors, all the beautiful
words and pages, the contributors and Kelly. So I do wanna say that. Kelly is done a lot to really beautify the magazine and and make it look legit. So
So, Kelly, thank you for that. Can I get you on?
Oh, I see that you should you be hearing something? Am I muted? That's my next question.
It should be.
Let me double check.
So I do wanna talk about mental health because, like I said, I've had a lot of people
come on
and comment about
why this person
should not come. And I was actually thinking, okay. I'm gonna actually invite this person to come on the show
and have her
you know, and in question her a little bit about this, not not to
be mean, but this is what I've been hearing. What will can you you wanna explain
yourself or you want to share your story, your side of the story.
The thing is she is I I there was an warrant out for her arrest last Tuesday.
So I don't think she could have joined anyways, but I've decided that there were so many people who were really upset about having this guest on
I felt that it just didn't fit the show. Right? This the show was called a trauma survivor,
Thrivers
Podcast. And
So most of my guests are people who are trauma survivors who are thriving.
And who are inspiring. And it just seemed like there was just a lot of animosity,
a lot of anger that was
surrounding
this guest. And and so I just didn't feel like having this person on would be helpful, but it did make me think, okay. We need to talk about mental health.
And there were a lot of people who were commenting
that they felt this person was such a compulsive liar that
they didn't believe that their trauma even existed.
While I'm I'm not
I'm not the person to make that decision,
or to judge that,
there is a
I I truly believe she's experienced some sort of trauma. Whether it's a trauma that she says she experience. I'm I'm not sure. I can't that's not my I'm not in that position
to make that call. I don't know her personally.
But I feel that
it's this this idea. Her people, her people,
people who've been traumatized,
oftentimes traumatize other people. That's why there's a generational trauma.
You know, my parents who
you know, I was traumatized by my parents. I'm in childhood sexual abuse survivor.
You know,
my my father sexually abused me as a child, my mother.
Well, she's wonderful, and we have a good relationship now.
You know, she she even admitted. I think I she told me when I was in college, I think I dealt with
postpartum depression.
And, you know, back then, nobody really knew much about if any anything about postpartum depression. And so
I forgave her that for that. I think she kind of there was this realization
our our relationship changed from there.
But
she still treated me
pretty badly growing up.
I felt neglected
by her.
And like I said, while that's not the case now, I did feel
neglected by her for the longest time. And
that has that caused me some issues. And and there was a point probably when I was in middle school,
I didn't know I was dealing with trauma,
but I realized that
I
I I
needed a community. I needed friends, and I didn't really have friends. I was often isolated as a child. But when I got into middle school, I knew that I wanted friends. And I felt like the only people who were kind of talking to me were the popular
the popular girls
And
I really,
really enjoyed,
like, being around them, but they were kind of mean. They were mean to other people, and I felt to be accepted within this group of people, I also needed to be
mean or I needed to be like them. And I was I I I'm so ashamed to say. I was a little bit of a bully.
Once I got into high school, I was bullied.
Then I'm like, oh, it
flipped the script. I'm this is this is happening to me, and this is this is pretty terrible.
So now I know what it feels like. Right? You just
I had things changed for me at that point.
However, I was still healing from my trauma. Actually, I wasn't healing it off. High school, I wasn't healing from my trauma. I didn't even know I had trauma.
I do wanna check-in. Do I have Kelly? Kelly, are you there? Are you available to chat?
I don't know. I'm still, like I feel like there were some new features added on
with Fireside.
And I'm hoping people can actually hear me right now.
Can people hear me?
I might be muted, actually.
No. I'm not.
Well, you know,
if we can get Kelly on oh, I see
speaker request.
Accept request.
Kelly, can you hear me?
Cali Binstock 00:08:36
Yes.
Lorilee Binstock 00:08:37
Oh my goodness.
Cali Binstock 00:08:38
Wait.
Lorilee Binstock 00:08:39
- K. K. I can hear you.
Cali Binstock 00:08:39
You can hear me.
Wow. Okay. Great.
Lorilee Binstock 00:08:42
Yes.
So, yes, this is this is Kelly.
She like I said earlier, she is the creative director for Authentic Insider Magazine. Reason why the pages are so beautifully curated.
Cali Binstock 00:08:49
Hi.
Lorilee Binstock 00:08:55
That and, again, the create contributors
Cali Binstock 00:08:58
Hello?
Lorilee Binstock 00:08:58
are the ones who
really
bring the magazine to life. So, Kelly,
you know, we've talked about this, and so I'm talking about mental health, and I'm talking about bullying. And I talked about how I was
Cali Binstock 00:09:05
Hi.
Lorilee Binstock 00:09:13
embarrassed to say I was a bully
when I was in middle school.
Cali Binstock 00:09:16
Mhmm.
Lorilee Binstock 00:09:18
Yada yada yada.
I got into high school. I was bullied, and then and then I realized, like, oh, okay. This is this is this this is what it feels like, and it feels pretty terrible.
But I was a bully because I I I struggled. I I there's something that I needed.
Cali Binstock 00:09:30
No.
Lorilee Binstock 00:09:35
And it was I needed
Cali Binstock 00:09:35
Mhmm.
Lorilee Binstock 00:09:37
people to like me because nobody really liked me at home.
Cali Binstock 00:09:42
Look at that.
Lorilee Binstock 00:09:43
And, you know, the people who actually
showed me some attention
were, you know, these these girls who were kinda bullies. I did have a couple friends that were like, my good friends,
and
they're still my good friends today.
But,
you know, we they were kind of pulled into all of it as well. And I I have to say, they're good people. They're good people now. I don't know about the other girls.
Cali Binstock 00:10:03
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:10:09
Then I'm sure they're great people.
But I I just wanna say it's her
say it again. Her people, her people,
Cali Binstock 00:10:17
Definitely.
Lorilee Binstock 00:10:17
and
And it's really hard.
If you like to understand that, especially if you've experienced trauma, unless you're unless you're on your, like, far into your healing.
Cali Binstock 00:10:25
Right.
Lorilee Binstock 00:10:29
And, you know, I feel like
being curious about certain situations
when someone's being mean,
it's never it's it's almost never about
Cali Binstock 00:10:37
Yes.
Lorilee Binstock 00:10:41
it's it's about the person who is being mean. It's not like
Cali Binstock 00:10:43
Right.
Lorilee Binstock 00:10:44
right?
Cali Binstock 00:10:45
That reminds me of Oprah's
I don't think it's that new anymore,
but it's like and I heard her talking about it on a podcast. It was like,
not what's wrong with you. The question should be, what happens to you?
Lorilee Binstock 00:11:00
Yes.
Exactly.
Cali Binstock 00:11:03
You know, and just having that awareness that people are acting from
maybe trauma and
insecurity
and not
as much out to get you because nobody cares that much about,
you know, you not in not in a bad way, but, like,
Lorilee Binstock 00:11:21
Right.
Cali Binstock 00:11:23
People are so self centric that
it's usually their own issues.
That they have to deal with. You know?
Lorilee Binstock 00:11:30
I agree.
And they're only outlet. Maybe you. Maybe they're so comfortable with you that you are the only outlet.
Cali Binstock 00:11:32
But yeah.
Yeah.
Mhmm.
Lorilee Binstock 00:11:39
Ask my husband.
I mean, it's
Cali Binstock 00:11:42
I know when you're really comfy with someone you can be.
Alamine.
Lorilee Binstock 00:11:48
yes.
Cali Binstock 00:11:48
Yeah. I'm guilty of it too, for sure.
Lorilee Binstock 00:11:49
Yes.
Yeah, a hundred percent. You know, I I talked to Jared about I mean, my husband's Jared. But I talked to my daughter
about bullying because she there are times where she's felt bullied.
And because she's felt bullied, you know, she comes to me. She's like this person said this, and I'm like, oh my goodness. Well, you know, there's probably something going on with them, and it's not about you. I think that was
Cali Binstock 00:12:05
Mhmm.
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:12:14
that was really important.
To
Cali Binstock 00:12:17
Mhmm.
Lorilee Binstock 00:12:17
my daughter, Olivia,
because
I feel like you can it's easy to take things personally.
Cali Binstock 00:12:24
Oh, yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:12:24
You know,
even when my husband gets mad at me, when Jared, my husband gets mad at me, I
can I can take it personally or he's being distant? I take it personally. Oh, you don't you don't love me anymore. You know, this is this is my thing. Right? But the truth is there's just something going on internally with him. Maybe it's work. Maybe it's something else. And I think it's, like you said, what Oser said,
Cali Binstock 00:12:33
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yes.
Lorilee Binstock 00:12:47
what happened? What did what happened to you?
Cali Binstock 00:12:50
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:12:50
Why are you behaving this way? And I feel like for this person who
is not on my show right now,
Cali Binstock 00:12:58
You're right.
Lorilee Binstock 00:12:59
it was
I I think
we should stop with the
and I and with the
I don't believe in her trauma because she is such a liar. I think she has experienced
some sort of trauma,
big tea, trauma, little tea, trauma that
made her feel that she needed to
scam people out of money. And, you
know,
in my neighborhood.
I live in Washington, DC, and there are a lot of car jackings, car thefts,
Cali Binstock 00:13:31
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:13:32
but it's something that was really interesting that happened.
This little while ago, but we have a listserv
Cali Binstock 00:13:37
Mhmm.
Lorilee Binstock 00:13:38
for moms on the hill, and a woman
was saying that her car got broken into.
But she didn't say, you know, didn't didn't anyone have any
cameras on this in this area. She specifically
Cali Binstock 00:13:50
Oh,
Lorilee Binstock 00:13:51
asked, George said,
They stole
diapers.
They're someone in our neighborhood, in our community who is so desperate
for such a necessity
that they broke into my car and stole diapers,
Cali Binstock 00:14:03
Oh my god.
Lorilee Binstock 00:14:07
and she wasn't angry.
She actually said we should actually do a
Cali Binstock 00:14:09
Right.
Lorilee Binstock 00:14:12
a diaper drive because someone needs it.
Cali Binstock 00:14:14
Hold on.
Lorilee Binstock 00:14:15
And I was like, oh my gosh.
Cali Binstock 00:14:16
The great
but a great human she is to,
Lorilee Binstock 00:14:19
Right.
Can you imagine if we looked at everything like that? Like,
Cali Binstock 00:14:20
you know,
Right.
Lorilee Binstock 00:14:24
we've been we've been harmed. Why?
Can how can we help this?
Cali Binstock 00:14:27
Yeah.
Well, that's, like, the chain of pain and And if you recognize
it, it's the only way to, like, start breaking the chain. You know?
Lorilee Binstock 00:14:39
That's awareness.
Mental health awareness.
Cali Binstock 00:14:40
Awareness
is always step one. Right? Like, that's where you have to start.
And then
that's the only place that, like,
good action. I guess you would say it would come from.
Lorilee Binstock 00:14:53
Yes.
Cali Binstock 00:14:54
Right? Like,
yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:14:57
Good humans.
I mean, I can say this all day long, but there will be moments in my life where I'm, like, You know? It's like, I think I did a TikTok
a while ago where I'm like,
hello, all. I hope you have a wonderful day, and then, like, pretend to honk my horn and
Cali Binstock 00:15:11
Mhmm.
Lorilee Binstock 00:15:14
yell, like, what the fuck is the matter with you?
Cali Binstock 00:15:17
Right.
Lorilee Binstock 00:15:17
It's really it's really the same thing. It's like, okay, everybody.
Make you know, give everyone as a chance, not everyone is experience.
You know, everyone's
Cali Binstock 00:15:27
So
Lorilee Binstock 00:15:27
you never know what everyone's experiencing,
and then you turn around, you're like, why did they do this? Why did they you know, it's just depending on your day. Right?
Cali Binstock 00:15:30
yeah.
Yeah.
Well, relationships
are if you're not regulated
and you're having a gut reaction because things are chaotic, like,
Lorilee Binstock 00:15:38
Right.
Cali Binstock 00:15:43
You have to give yourself grace too, I guess,
after those situations.
Lorilee Binstock 00:15:46
Exactly.
Yeah. I think it's right. Yeah. I I I think it all comes to, like, this this whole idea the system of regulating your nervous system. Right? We when we're dysregulated,
Cali Binstock 00:15:57
Hey.
Lorilee Binstock 00:15:59
awareness is out the window.
Cali Binstock 00:16:01
Oh, yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:16:02
But it's also one of those things. If you train your yourself to be to will be aware when you're not
Cali Binstock 00:16:10
Mhmm.
Lorilee Binstock 00:16:10
dysregulated,
then it'll it becomes easier when you are dysregulated.
Cali Binstock 00:16:16
Through.
Lorilee Binstock 00:16:17
To be able to
respond
and not react.
Cali Binstock 00:16:22
Exactly.
Lorilee Binstock 00:16:22
And
and so, yeah,
I also wanted to talk about cancel culture because I think there were also a lot of people, and I agree with them, people who responded, like, what did this person do. I don't believe in cancel culture. If people canceled me, I wouldn't be doing what I'm doing now.
And I agree with that because
Cali Binstock 00:16:41
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:16:43
and like I said earlier, I mentioned I don't know if you heard, but I mentioned, you know, this person
Cali Binstock 00:16:49
Mhmm.
Lorilee Binstock 00:16:50
You know, this it just she just it just didn't work with the podcast itself. It's a trauma survivor, Thrivers Podcast.
Cali Binstock 00:16:57
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:16:57
And she's not in a place where she's thriving. And but I think she's in a place where she could start her healing. And I I do hope that for her. I wish that for her,
Cali Binstock 00:17:01
Yeah.
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:17:10
but I also agree, like,
you know, canceled culture is just so volatile.
Why? We don't need to
we we can we can stop giving them attention because when you keep feeding into feeding into this,
Cali Binstock 00:17:22
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:17:24
right, then they'll just start re reacting.
Cali Binstock 00:17:25
Mhmm.
Lorilee Binstock 00:17:28
But if you give them the space to maybe be able to see what they're doing because you can't shame people into doing things. Let's let's be real here. You can't shame people into doing the right thing. They need to figure it out for themselves. And I think in a a place to be able to do that is a place of quiet,
Cali Binstock 00:17:35
True.
Yeah.
Mhmm.
Lorilee Binstock 00:17:47
and I think
cancel culture. It's not that we're canceling you. Like, you're done,
but I think it's like I think it's more like
Cali Binstock 00:17:54
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:17:57
Okay.
This is your opportunity
to make some changes and understand your actions and maybe make some changes and maybe do better and help others do better.
Cali Binstock 00:18:04
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:18:08
And then I think that's when.
Cali Binstock 00:18:08
We all make mistakes,
so I guess there's a scale of, like,
Lorilee Binstock 00:18:10
Yes.
Cali Binstock 00:18:14
you know,
if someone is a dangerous human,
you know, that's one thing, but
Lorilee Binstock 00:18:20
Right.
Cali Binstock 00:18:20
making mistakes
and
I don't know. I just
it makes me think about
people in jail and just the amount of incarceration
in our in our country, and
it just seems insane.
Lorilee Binstock 00:18:38
No. It does.
Cali Binstock 00:18:39
But how many how many people and mostly people of color in in jails for smaller crimes, and
Lorilee Binstock 00:18:44
Mhmm.
Cali Binstock 00:18:47
and, you know, the
perpetuating
cycle
with poverty, and it's just
it's not a it's it's not usually a place of rehabilitation.
Lorilee Binstock 00:18:59
Yeah.
Cali Binstock 00:18:59
It's a place of a lot of with a lot of toxicity. I'm sure they're I mean, I taught art at at our county jail here in Pittsburgh
briefly. I wasn't there a long, long time, but
I believe in
in,
you know, rehabilitation,
and I think
setting people up for reintegration,
and
it's just crazy. We don't have more mental health support for
for these people.
Lorilee Binstock 00:19:28
Yeah. I I think that's that's that's the issue here. The our mental health care system in America
is so
dysfunctional.
Cali Binstock 00:19:39
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:19:39
There's there's not enough going on. There's just
not not enough people
I mean, who can afford it really? I mean, it's very expensive
Cali Binstock 00:19:47
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:19:49
to get mental health treatment in America. And to get good mental health, specialized health
Cali Binstock 00:19:55
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:19:56
care, that's that's
that it it's it's so rare. Yet we there's all these other issues that we're dealing with. But if we can if we can, like, get to the root of it, which is, like, our mental health care system, we could probably fix a lot more things.
Cali Binstock 00:20:08
Mhmm.
Right. Like the the domino effect of that would be so worth it, so worth investing in.
Lorilee Binstock 00:20:14
Mhmm.
Yes.
Inquiry.
But but that's the question is if someone's
you know, I I'm sure there's hundreds and hundreds of people all over America trying to work on how are we gonna get there.
It's just it is a it's a it's a very daunting task. And and,
Cali Binstock 00:20:35
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:20:36
you know, that's why I'm kind of hoping, like, for all of us, it's just
we're working on ourselves. I I'd like if if each individual
Cali Binstock 00:20:44
Mhmm.
Lorilee Binstock 00:20:46
can work on themselves,
I think that that that right there is growth. And,
Cali Binstock 00:20:49
No.
Lorilee Binstock 00:20:52
again, it's that easily said,
not easily done.
Cali Binstock 00:20:57
Right.
Lorilee Binstock 00:20:58
And but I I mean, I feel like talking about it,
bringing awareness to it,
Cali Binstock 00:21:04
Mhmm.
Lorilee Binstock 00:21:05
you know, I think that's everything. I think that that that's why we're having this conversation. I could have easily canceled the show.
Cali Binstock 00:21:11
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:21:14
But it really
Cali Binstock 00:21:14
Cancel all the color.
Lorilee Binstock 00:21:16
cancel culture. Yes. I but I really could not sleep just thinking about all of the stuff that was happening.
Cali Binstock 00:21:23
Mhmm.
Lorilee Binstock 00:21:23
And and so I did wanna briefly
kinda touch on this and and, you know,
have this conversation
Cali Binstock 00:21:31
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:21:32
because,
you know, I, myself, was just
dealing with trauma. I did awful things. That I am absolutely not proud of. I am very lucky that social media didn't exist when I was a child.
Cali Binstock 00:21:41
Mhmm.
Lorilee Binstock 00:21:47
And
Cali Binstock 00:21:48
I know. How lucky were we?
Lorilee Binstock 00:21:50
I I mean, we were so lucky. It it scares me to think, like, if social media existed,
twenty
Cali Binstock 00:21:57
God.
Lorilee Binstock 00:21:58
years ago,
I'd be screwed.
Cali Binstock 00:22:01
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:22:01
I'd be screwed.
Cali Binstock 00:22:02
My my late teens and twenties, like, I would rather not
Lorilee Binstock 00:22:04
Mm-mm.
Cali Binstock 00:22:06
have any evidence of that.
Lorilee Binstock 00:22:06
Yes.
Right. Exactly.
Cali Binstock 00:22:09
And I hardly do, which is wonderful because
Lorilee Binstock 00:22:12
Exactly.
Cali Binstock 00:22:12
that was, like, traumatic in itself just that time of life.
Lorilee Binstock 00:22:13
Yeah.
Cali Binstock 00:22:17
You know, just you don't know. There's so much doubt. And if you've been through trauma, like, ugh,
Lorilee Binstock 00:22:17
Right.
Cali Binstock 00:22:24
it's just the hardest time you're not gonna
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:22:28
Yep.
Cali Binstock 00:22:29
So much
Lorilee Binstock 00:22:29
No. I agree.
Cali Binstock 00:22:30
painful growth. You know?
Lorilee Binstock 00:22:32
Painful growth. And and I think that's what's really hard about our youth now because, you
know, And that's why that's another reason why I think we we shouldn't cancel these kids. Their their brains are still developing. We don't know what they've gone through. I think it just everything deserves, like, a deeper look and
Cali Binstock 00:22:44
Right.
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:22:51
curiosity
of other people and curiosity within yourself. Yeah.
Cali Binstock 00:22:56
Totally.
Totally. I think we were when we were chatting before this, like,
this is so random, but
my kids had it's
actually
dated from, like, the early two thousands. It's the show on Nick that was on Nick Junior,
that Bill Cosby,
it's called Little Bill.
And it was on, like, a DVD they were watching. And I just, like, randomly start thinking about, like, I wonder how he feels about everything
Lorilee Binstock 00:23:19
Mhmm. Yep.
Cali Binstock 00:23:28
Is he remorseful?
Like, what I wonder if he's doing anything to better himself now? Like, all of these questions, I'm like, that could be asked for so many people.
Lorilee Binstock 00:23:37
Mhmm.
Cali Binstock 00:23:38
But, like,
I don't know. I'm just it's just a thought. Like,
I'm guessing we, as a society, would be more welcoming
to
people who were working on, you know,
Lorilee Binstock 00:23:51
Right.
Cali Binstock 00:23:52
the mistakes that they've made and trying to
kinda reform themselves and,
you know, have more awareness and understand the hurt and kind of, like,
This is a LIVE replay of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast which aired Wednesday, April 26th, 2023 at 1130am ET on Fireside Chat.
Today’s guest is Jamie Mustard, Co-Author of the book the Invisible Machine: The Startling Truth About Trauma and the Scientific Breakthrough That Can Transform Your Life.
For more information about the Dual Sympathetic Reset Procedure, visit The Stella Center.
Lorilee Binstock 00:16:58
Welcome. I'm Lorilee Binstock, and this is A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast.
Thank you so much for joining me live on Fireside Chat, where you can be a part of the conversation as my virtual audience. I am your host, Lorriely Benstock,
Everyone has an opportunity to ask me or our guest questions on this show by requesting a hop on stage or sending a message in the chat box. I will try to get to you, but I do ask that everybody be respectful.
Today's guest is Jamie mustard, co author of the book, The Invisible Machine, The startling truth about trauma and the scientific breakthrough that can transform
your life. Jamie, thank you so much for joining me today.
Jamie Mustard 00:17:55
Thank you for having me. I'm sorry. I've not used this platform before, so I'm just having technical difficulties.
Lorilee Binstock 00:18:02
Oh, you are not the first one, and you will be the last So there's no worry there. I'm just glad we were able to get you on because I really am so fascinated by this because I've actually never heard about this. You co authored this book, the invisible machine, the startling truth about trauma, and the scientific breakthrough.
Jamie Mustard 00:18:05
Perfect.
I
Lorilee Binstock 00:18:19
And this you did this with doctor Eugene Lipov. An anesthesiologists
who developed this treatment.
Could you actually describe it? Because you actually
underwent this treatment. Correct?
Jamie Mustard 00:18:30
I did. And one of the reasons, you know, a lot of people would ask kind of why would an artist
coauthor look with, you know, Yuzhou Lab is more than a
anesthesiologist.
He's a
you could say he's the Einstein of modern anesthesiology
and a
a scientist.
So the question is, you know, why would write her all go author a book with that guy? And and the answer is kind of your
your the way you kinda said at the top that you'd never heard of it. And the reason you've never heard of it is because it's been around for twenty years, and the military is using it. Yeah. And the military is used doing fifteen to twenty thousand of these a year. The second largest cohort getting it is sexual assault victims.
Lorilee Binstock 00:19:04
Stop, really.
Jamie Mustard 00:19:12
When I saw this,
I saw something that,
you know, whenever you see it on it's been on sixty minutes. It's been on Joe Rogan. It's been on CBS this morning. But when if you ever see it in the media,
it's always at the extremes.
It's always a navy seal,
a fur a nine eleven first responder,
when I came across this, I didn't see this as something for people at the extreme.
I saw this as something that maybe
could be affecting forty to fifty percent of the US
and global population. So my work was to go, hey. This is not for the extreme. This is for society
and everyone
that is experiencing
the symptoms that are associated with fight or flight that may never have even associated themselves
with trauma.
Lorilee Binstock 00:20:03
I mean, to be honest, I never associated myself with trauma. I'm a childhood sexual abuse survivor, and I didn't realize I experienced trauma. I thought that was just something really
bad that happened that I will never talk about,
but you're right. I feel like that this is very fascinating, and it's a non invasive
outpatient procedure?
Jamie Mustard 00:20:23
Okay. So, yeah, you asked me what it is. I wouldn't use the word noninvasive.
I would use the word safe.
Lorilee Binstock 00:20:27
Okay.
Jamie Mustard 00:20:29
And minimally invasive. It's basically,
he uses a needle to do what we well, we know it's safe because the shot was originally developed retaining hands in nineteen twenty six.
It's now evolved. The doctor kind of reconfigured it and evolved it.
So you it's now we call it he's evolved into what we're calling what he calls
the dual sympathetic reset.
And, basically, what you're doing is you're doing a pain injection that's guided that's guided by an ultrasound. You get a local anesthetic first, so you don't even it feels like nothing.
And
he uses an ultrasound to
guide
a needle that has a tiny you know, so a small amount of anesthetic in it, the same anesthetic that goes into an epidural,
same two dollar amount of anesthetic that goes into an epidural. And your sympathetic nervous system is basically located
in the ganglion, which is a nerves a a a a a
a
a
a string of nerves that run from your amygdala all the way down your but your sympathetic your fight or flight system is in your neck on both sides of your neck.
And what he does is he
in inject this.
God, I think it's I'm gonna get the name of it wrong. But
yeah. But it's the same it's the same, you know,
Lorilee Binstock 00:21:45
Yeah.
Jamie Mustard 00:21:47
stuff that goes into an epidural. And what it does is it turns off your sympathetic nervous system,
and it comes online about ten minutes later
at baseline
to the pre trauma state. So you're basically resetting
the sympathetic nervous system. And what we're fine with what what they found is, you know,
the adult trauma or blunt force trauma is on the right side. You can only do one side per day. K? You do two injections on one side, and then you can get the next injection the next day. Anything before puberty or childhood trauma
is on the left side.
And then yeah. So they'll always do the right side first,
and then people that will have have had trial to hood trauma
Lorilee Binstock 00:22:27
Well,
Jamie Mustard 00:22:30
may not
experience the reset. So they're starting more and more to to to both
on almost everybody.
Lorilee Binstock 00:22:40
Wow.
You know, I I and, you know, I know about fight or flight, and I didn't know it was about a cluster of nerves in your neck. I'm wondering, is this why I have neck pain?
Jamie Mustard 00:22:49
It might be I mean, you have to think of it like this.
Well, first of all, Laura Lee, let me say thank you so much for having me. It's, you know, just a real honor to be here.
Lorilee Binstock 00:22:57
Oh, of course.
Jamie Mustard 00:23:00
You know,
you there's two things that causes. One is blunt force trauma. Like, you and I are very Well, we're similar in this regard. I experienced an extreme
massive amount of trauma as a kid probably that most people would never not be able to survive in any sort of meaningful way and
live my entire life up until,
I don't know, five years ago, seven years ago.
Where I was in total denial that I'd even been traumatized. You know, in my in my upbringing, you know, growing up how I grew up is where I grew up in the neighborhood I grew up in. You know, being a victim was the last thing you could ever be. So I never
Lorilee Binstock 00:23:30
Mhmm.
Jamie Mustard 00:23:39
the thought of thinking of myself as a victim
was just not in my,
you know, just in my in my thought profile. So I just didn't think I had trauma. I got therapy for the first time five or six years ago
with your counseling. After about six weeks. This very lovely. I talked about this in the book. Therapists
diagnosed me with, you know, acute post traumatic stress disorder.
And it's not a disorder. It's actually a physical injury to the body, and you can see it on a brain scan. But she
diagnosed me with PTSD.
I laughed in her face,
because I thought it was such a ridiculous
thing.
She her eyes walled up, and she looked at me
And she said, Jamie, have you been listening to the stories you've been telling me?
And I said,
yes. And she said, how could you not?
And in that moment,
my whole
kind of bullshit life narrative fell apart,
and I kinda went home and hugged the cactus.
I
I started, you know, realizing not only you know, I I not only has I had I've been victimized.
I had been
you know, just completely
savaged and ravaged
as a child, you know, abandoned
you know, at birth with strangers, you know,
very little physical touch in and out of institutional environments.
You know, all this stuff It was, you know, just severe,
egregious
trauma, and I was just like, wow. You know, that's normal. That's what I knew.
Lorilee Binstock 00:25:11
Well,
Jamie Mustard 00:25:15
Yeah. So so about five or six years ago, when my my first book came out, maybe it's less, maybe it's, you know,
or maybe it was before that.
I was starting to get to kinda where I wanted in life, and
I
for the first time ever was looking back. You know, I didn't wanna look back. But when I was getting what I wanted,
my discomfort as a person
wasn't going away. In my mind, I thought, god. If I'm just successful,
I'll feel relaxed.
And I was getting successful
and feeling
very unrelaxed, but actually more dis more uncomfortable than I'd ever felt, and I couldn't understand why. So I started
when I got this post traumatic stress diagnosis,
I started looking. I was friends I turned a literary juke with
a a really well known
military
psychologist,
Shawna Springer,
Doc Springer,
and she had started
She was sending people for this procedure,
and
I ended up in the middle of COVID
to have years ago,
getting on a plane in the middle of COVID
and going to Chicago in the winter to do this kind of what I thought was a very avant garde
procedure.
And it was very strange that I did that literally because when you grew up, like, raised by wolves or kinda thrown away like I was, you don't go to the doctor. So you don't go to regular doctors. Let alone go and do kind of new treatments.
Lorilee Binstock 00:26:41
Yeah.
Jamie Mustard 00:26:45
But I I when my first book came out, I had a very well known forensic psychologist
named doctor j Faber, who works at Amen Clinic.
He was a fan of my book, and he and I become friends.
And so I just said as a friend, can you bet this thing for me? And it was all upside and no downside.
And so I almost backed out fifty times, but I did it.
Lorilee Binstock 00:27:11
Can you tell me what that was like?
Jamie Mustard 00:27:13
Oh my gosh.
Yes. It was the most transformative
thing
that I've ever done in my life, it completely changed my worldview.
And that is because
it was like, I had a lot of judgment towards people, you know, towards people where I grew up the bad neighborhoods where I grew up towards addicts.
Towards people
that were, you know, couldn't get their life together. I had judgment.
K?
When I had when I got both sides of this thing done,
the discomfort
that I'd been experiencing my entire life that I thought was a part of me I won't you know, was gone. It was just like I was me. I didn't feel I didn't even know I couldn't feel that way. I didn't even know because, like, when you're abandoned at birth, what's your I I never
even experience baseline.
Okay?
Lorilee Binstock 00:28:04
Well, mhmm.
Jamie Mustard 00:28:07
So it
I'm ever walking this is a good way to describe it. I was walking down the street after getting it in Chicago. I went to the Chicago Art Museum. I was there with friend who is supporting me. And I saw these, like, hustler guys on the street, and they were like and they were looking at me. And I kind of you know, that's something that's triggering for me. I really resent that because it kinda reminds me of my neighborhood, and these guys were looking at me like a mark. And, normally,
that would make me mad.
When I saw these guys, all of a sudden, I didn't see crazy people. I didn't see hustlers.
I saw their biology.
These guys are stuck in fight or flight. And I can explain to you what happens, but, you know, you don't need blunt force trauma. Like, what you and I went through to
need this. The I think the biggest cause of this and why I think it's such a massive swath of the population, and why I think most people that have post traumatic stress. Don't even associate with trauma. You can get is that what one, two things cause this. One is blunt force trauma like what would happen in war seeing your buddy killed in front of you
Lorilee Binstock 00:29:10
Mhmm.
Jamie Mustard 00:29:11
or
a sexual assault.
But the other thing that causes this, and I think it's the much more
predominant cause
is prolonged allostatic load, chronic stress over time.
Okay? And so
Lorilee Binstock 00:29:28
Yeah.
Jamie Mustard 00:29:29
just
so by by
feeling that sense of comfort, my own body, and sense of relief.
My it changed the way just I interact with people now when I see somebody reacting in fight or flight towards me rather than taking it personally or thinking they're crazy.
I understand the biology of it, so it just I just I I have only compassion.
Lorilee Binstock 00:29:54
That's amazing.
That's amazing. And I and I feel that
You're right. I feel like
I don't know, like, probably ninety, even more than that percent of the population has dealt with chronic stress, especially in America.
And I feel like,
you know, everyone can benefit
from
from, you know, a a treatment like this. I feel like that there's
every a lot of people everyone I know deals with a lot of stress and a lot of anxiety.
And for something like this to be available and to
you say twenty years. I'm like, what? I just heard about this,
like, last month.
And so I'm intrigued.
Does this treatment need to be accompanied by
ongoing therapy
or
or or what? What would you suggest?
Jamie Mustard 00:30:43
It it it's a it's a great question, and and I'd like to answer it, and then I'd like to kinda back up and explain
very specifically how one could get this and how a lot of your listeners right now are are going, well, do I have trauma and I know it? And how would you know it? And
but something he's saying is resonating to me. So look with me. So I wish I could understand this more. So let me kind of explain the kind of how it works with other therapies. And then let me kind of back it up and explain why and how I came to write a book with who I think
made the most
preminent most important medical discovery since the discovery of Penicillin in nineteen twenty eight. And I would compare it as a human discovery to the moon landing. If we can reset the nervous system, it changes the world.
And so I think this guy will go on to win the Nobel Prize because
even if you compare it to the polio vaccine,
you know, suicide is linked to fight or flight.
If you, you know, fifty thousand people a year stopped dying because when they when the polio vaccine was discovered, I think, in the forties,
That
the amount of suicides this could could prevent in a year dwarfs that number compared to all the other ailments and physical
conditions because this conduct if you have an a a novactive
sympathetic nervous system, if your nervous system is stuck in fight or flight, you're gonna have a cascade of physiological
problems.
It discombobulates
the immune system. It destroys this scavenger system in the body,
Lorilee Binstock 00:32:13
Right.
Jamie Mustard 00:32:15
which is the system that is constantly,
you know, keeping you from having autoimmune diseases,
orthopedic problems,
cancer,
that system can get discombobulated.
Right? So, you know, if the body keeps the score, that I would say this is the scorekeeper.
But I think maybe backing it up and and and and kind of coming to how did I come to write an artist and and our come to write a book with a a a scientist.
Right? But so, basically, I went and did this thing. My life was changed.
And a couple months later, I got invited
by two colonels that run all the training for special forces.
To speak to come to Fort Bragg and speak to special forces at JFK auditorium
regarding my book, The Iconist,
okay, which is kind of like a Malcolm Gladwell type book to business communications and art book. And
it was kind of crazy. You know, I'm a kid from the strums slums of LA, and all of a sudden, I was going to Fort Bragg and teaching site, you know,
psychological operations how to create better counter propaganda against the Russians and the Chinese. You know, I mean, it's crazy. That I would be in that situation.
So I got invited to Fort Bragg. When I got this procedure,
the doctor came into
the
wait into the to the host op room. And he said,
hey. And I wish I'd get it from the inventor, doctor Eugene La Bauch, my co author. And he said, hey. I was told to treat you like a VIP. Why?
And I said, well, I'm an author, and we have a mutual friend. So our mutual friend, you know, I have a bit of a platform, you know, probably wanted to make sure I was taken care of. And then he left again, and then he came back. And he said, listen. This procedure is gonna this
I mean, I get what what are you this the
try this anesthesia, this thing that you just got in your neck, it's gonna wear off in about seven or eight hours. Can I pick you up at the hotel and take you to dinner?
And we we talk about this in the book.
And I said,
Sure.
You know, why not? And so he picks me up from the hotel. We go to this Mexican restaurant, this fancy Mexican restaurant with the windows open. It's raining. In the middle of COVID. The wind is blowing through, and he starts pouring
glasses of expensive red wine.
And download and gives me a three hour download of the science and history of this thing.
And my mind
and my my just mouth my jaw fell up. And I remember turning
to my friend who was at the dinner with us. He kinda sped off in his Tesla. We Ubered home,
And I turned to my friend and I said, we just had dinner with the smartest human being I've ever met.
And, you know, I've met a lot I mean, I went to the one in school then economics. I know a lot of smart people. Right?
Lorilee Binstock 00:35:04
Wow.
Jamie Mustard 00:35:07
So
so he and I so then a few I get back to Portland a few days go by, and I get a call from this guy, and he says, hey. I just read your book. And we just started talking, and we became friends.
Right after that, I got invited to Fort Bragg.
And I and the doctor couldn't believe that I was being invited to Fort Bragg by these colonel. So he said, hey. Can I come sit in the audience for your talk? I know they're doing my procedure at Fort Bragg, but they won't talk to me. I don't know how. So
basically,
I
talked to these colonel. They had never heard of this thing, the DSR at that time. It was called the FGB, the slight gainly a block. But they started researching it. They called me back, and they said, yeah. We're doing
ten of these a day, six days a week. They're they were doing three thousand a year Fort Greg alone.
Lorilee Binstock 00:35:57
And was this on
active military?
Jamie Mustard 00:36:01
Yes.
Lorilee Binstock 00:36:03
Interesting. So
Jamie Mustard 00:36:04
So
Lorilee Binstock 00:36:05
go ahead.
Jamie Mustard 00:36:05
yeah. No. So the VA was probably doing more. But the lot what really, what happened is there was a post traumatic stress, meaning
where I got really upset because I had to sit in you know, the colonel's arranged ten days of meetings. Even though it was six weeks away, it normally takes seven months to a year to get grand rounds at Wilmac. Doctor Lipa, the Dunground rounds at Walter Reed, the colonels arranged for the doctor to come with me and do Grand Rounds for all the doctors at Womack because they were doing the procedure at Fort Bragg based off of the ten year old paper. So it was to bring them into
all the modifications
because
ten years ago, this thing was seventy percent effective in the relief post traumatic stress. Now it's up to eighty and five to ninety percent.
So because of latest modifications. So he did ground rounds. And in one of the post traumatic stress meetings, I sat around for two hours and listened to these guys and come back from Iraq and Afghanistan and special forces guys.
And
their stories, and they were all told that they had a disorder, and it made me really angry because at that point, I knew one hundred percent
that they had a physical injury to their body and that post traumatic stress disorder does not exist. It's post traumatic stress injury,
is it physical injury to the body? You can see it on a brain scan.
So at the end of that meeting, I expressed my rage at the fact that these guys are sacrificing their bodies, their families, their wives, their children. They don't come back the same. And then they're being then their government is telling them they're crazy. It may be mad. And I said that. And so I think the guy that runs the health initiative task force, I think he was kind of you know, he kinda saw me as this Arty Rider guy. He didn't know what to make of me. But when I expressed my truth. I think he kinda started to respect me, and he called me over at the end of the meeting.
And he said, Jamie, have you ever heard of operator syndrome? And I said, no. And he showed of these symptoms on his phone. It was about eight symptoms.
And the the symptoms that you would experience if you were running from a tiger Okay?
And
I and and that this is what happens if you're never in a fight or fight at Fort Black bragging. Or to say, you're never in a fire fight in Afghanistan or Iraq, but you just you're deployed at a firebase,
and you have the stress of being away from your family, and maybe you could die that day from an IED or from something else. Right? So it's this prolonged allostatic load, but you're never in a fight. They call that operator syndrome.
Okay?
And when I saw that list of symptoms,
Laura Lee, I didn't see the military.
I saw the
Mexican neighborhoods where I grew up in Los Angeles.
And so my mind started spinning.
Could it be that the stress of poverty
or if you're middle class
and the stress of having distant parents, a mother that needles you, a mean father,
could it be that the chronic stress of that, a divorce
could cause the exact same biological injury as someone coming back from war.
Because the sympathetic nervous system is a machine,
an invisible machine, hence the name of the book, the invisible machine.
Could it be that that it doesn't think it's apathetic. So could it be that average people have the exact same symptoms in their body as someone coming back from war, but they don't know it because they just got it from having,
you know, parents that didn't hug them.
Or talk to them a certain way. And that and that's where
my mind met doctor Lipov's
staggering innovation.
Lorilee Binstock 00:39:28
Yeah. I mean, that affects the majority of people.
Right? These are these they they are considered, I guess, little tee traumas,
but the react the reaction and the activation within the
you know, the amygdala, it's all the same. Right?
Jamie Mustard 00:39:46
Yeah. I mean, let me kinda tell you kind of how let me kind of give a primitive way of how one gets this.
Lorilee Binstock 00:39:51
Mhmm.
Jamie Mustard 00:39:51
And then go and why don't I go over the seven symptoms? That way, the people listening can go, well, I don't have trauma. Then they can listen to me, list it, and they go, maybe I do. Right?
Lorilee Binstock 00:40:01
Please. Please.
Jamie Mustard 00:40:01
So
yeah. So listen. I people, like, at the extreme, were seeking this out and finding it. But people like me were not and and, again, I wasn't the extreme. I just didn't know it. And I you know, my goal was to bring this to military
My goal is to bring this into the light, and I think it should be more popular or known than LASIK. It contains the way we we interact.
As a species. But, basically,
you have to think of it as if you were
running from a tiger. You know, you live in a jungle, you know, a bounce years ago, you're and you're
and you're a tiger comes out of nowhere.
Well,
in the moment,
It's Peter Levine's work. That guy, he wrote a book, I think, in the yeah. In the was it in the eighties or nineties cold run? Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:40:43
Yeah.
Awaken.
Awaken the tiger.
Jamie Mustard 00:40:48
Yeah. Running from the tiger. Yeah. Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:40:48
An unspoken voice. Yeah. It's a yeah. Awaken the Tiger. Yes. I've read I've read the unspoken voice of Peter Levine. I'm fascinated with somatic experiencing. But, yes, continue.
Jamie Mustard 00:40:55
Okay.
Okay. So, say, a tiger comes out of nowhere. You live in the jungle a thousand years ago. Well, what is gonna happen in that moment? Is you're gonna have
seven or eight symptoms.
K? You're gonna have seven or eight feelings. Your amygdala
is gonna send a signal to these nerves on each side of your neck, and that's gonna jerk you into response. So you are walking on you're hiking up a mountain, and there's a cliff, and you almost slip and fall down it. Your amygdala sends a signal you signal to these are you on the swerve your car and hit somebody, but just you avert the accident just in time because your amygdala sends a signal to these nerves in your neck that jerk you in action to either flee or fight for your life. K?
Fireflies.
Lorilee Binstock 00:41:40
Mhmm.
Jamie Mustard 00:41:40
Well, typically, if that happens and it's something like swerving your car, you're heightened for five maybe three to five hours because you felt like you almost died. And then
for for, you know, four or five hours later, you'll come back down to baseline.
Right? But if the trauma is too great, like your buddy being killed in front of you, or you
or then or a sexual assault,
and you have this overwhelming trauma.
The your your sympathetic nervous system
actually gets locked into fire flight.
So you're locked into feeling like you're running from a tiger
twenty four hours a day, three hundred and sixty five days a year, seven days a week. K?
So what would you experience if a tiger or leap out of you? You would experience anxiety.
You'd be anxious that the tiger was gonna kill you. You'd have mild paranoia that the tiger was right there at that that moment. You would have a sense of doom. You'd feel like the other shoe is gonna drop every second because you knew the tiger was right there. You would be hyper vigilant about the tiger. You would be hyper aroused
about the tiger. You wouldn't be able to sleep because you can't sleep if a tiger is chasing you. You would be highly reactive and have a hair trigger because you would need to be reactive to survive the tiger.
Lorilee Binstock 00:42:49
Right.
Jamie Mustard 00:42:55
K?
And these guys that come back from Afghanistan and Iraq,
a massive majority of them, something like twenty five percent of them all have
erectile dysfunction because you can't have sex if you're running from a tiger.
In the military, the ultimate form of fight, and the ultimate form of flight in the military,
suicide,
is the ultimate form of flight where people are changing to protect. It's the ultimate form of flight. In the neighborhoods where I grew up where maybe violence is acceptable,
or life is cheaper,
homicide is the ultimate form of fight.
So I believe when you see these violence rates in the community that I live in, and you see these suicide rates in the military, it is one hundred percent an overactive sympathetic nervous system. So when you experience those symptoms, you can get that say the tiger never eats you. You're just in a jungle where there's lots of tigers. So you're you're carrying the stress
of the type of tigers all the time. K?
It it would be a
it would be a survival
mechanism. It would be a survival tool to be locked in firefly. It actually would help you to survive.
K? The problem is if you're sitting at home watching Netflix, you know, eating
Cheetos,
and drinking, you know, a LaCroix,
and you're feeling that way, it creates a really, really big problem.
And and think about it also like this.
We're meant to
experience those symptoms, anxiety, paranoia,
sense of doom or mild paranoid, hyper vigilant, hyper aroused, a lack of sleep, hair trigger reactivity.
We're meant to experience that for about thirty seconds where we either
flee from the tiger or we fight the tiger.
K? And then we're supposed to calm down and be normal as humans. K? Those are supposed to be short bursts.
Lorilee Binstock 00:44:43
Mhmm.
Jamie Mustard 00:44:46
Of fight or flight.
If you have to experience like a tiger is gonna eat you in every second, twenty all the time.
Which is what happens when your sympathetic gets
stuck in fight or flight.
You're gonna you're not gonna wanna live. You're gonna wanna kill yourself. We're not designed to wanna live like a tiger is gonna eat us every second. You're gonna either wanna kill yourself or you're gonna wanna kill somebody.
Right? So
there was a guy named Frank Oport who defined
Lorilee Binstock 00:45:13
Yeah.
Jamie Mustard 00:45:16
Stockholm syndrome,
for the
in the nineteen seventies for the FBI, and he's a very famous psychiatrist.
And and in two thousand twelve, He's been working since two thousand twelve. He's been working very hard
with others to try and get the name changed from post traumatic stress disorder. To post traumatic stress, injury, PTSD.
So
can I keep going? I don't you know, I don't be able to Okay. So okay. Okay. No. So so
Lorilee Binstock 00:45:44
Of course. Yes. Keep going. No. This is fascinating.
Jamie Mustard 00:45:49
so let's back it up. So let so everyone's different. Like, the
You can, to a child,
a father that is distant, a mother that needles you, that allastatic load for a child is staggering.
And that person would not associate themselves with trauma. So I'm trying to get this away from just the extremes. I want those people to get it, but I'm trying to bring this to it. Kindergarten teachers, yoga instructors, plumbers, CEOs, accountants, attorneys. I'm trying to bring this to the every person.
Right?
But, you know, I think a really good way to explain this
is
Back at nineteen seventy,
doctor Frank Ochberg, this guy that came up with a term post traumatic stress injury,
And, again, you can see this on a brain scan, Laura Lee. So if I if someone has an overactive sympathetic nervous system and I scan their brain with a functional MRI,
I will see overactivity
in their amygdala,
and I will see decreased blood flow to their frontal cortex.
Normally to
g to fix to kind of mitigate against that, and then we're gonna get after I explain this, we'll get to how it relates to other therapies.
Normally, to mitigate against that,
I might need six months of hyperbaric,
no drugs and alcohol,
Cademy, so as you know, I could do a million things, and I would only mitigate against that so much. To and I could get some
decrease
in that overactivity in the amygdala from all those therapies for years. And maybe I would get
some increased blood flow
to my frontal cortex.
If you do this injection
where you just reset the nervous system with no side effects no long term side effects. There's a side effect that day.
They get you get it. And then the second day, you get it. And then by the evening of both days, it's gone.
If you get the reset, you
you're just
a person again, and you're not having to use all these things to it's like physical therapy in a broken leg.
You wouldn't do physical therapy over a broken leg. You'd set the leg, then you'd do physical therapy. So all these incredible therapies work but we're doing them over a broken leg.
Lorilee Binstock 00:48:03
Right.
Jamie Mustard 00:48:08
And so what you would see on a brain scan after
doing a DSR dual sympathetic reset is
that overactivity in the amygdala would be gone in a day. It'd be completely gone, and you have increased blood flow
to the
your frontal cortex
in a way that that years
of all those other modalities combined would never achieve. Because you're doing physical therapy over a broken leg. It also when you when you call it a disorder,
it's incredibly stigmatizing, and you could even say inhumane
if it's a lie, which it is because it's actually a physical injury of the body.
So it's like, if you we don't have broken leg syndrome or broken leg disorder.
When you call something a mental disorder that's actually a physical injury, it's very harmful. Incredibly stigmatizing.
But if you call it a physical injury, you take all the stigma away. No one has a stigma for over you having a broken leg because you can see it.
Lorilee Binstock 00:48:59
Yeah.
Jamie Mustard 00:49:08
You can't see an overactive sympathetic, but it's just as broken as a broken leg. It's the best metaphor to describe it. And that's why we call the book the Invisible Machine,
the StarLink truth about Trauma, and the
scientific breakthrough that can transform your life. But what I'd like to do, Lorely, and then I'll kind of back up and answer your question next question. I think I think this is the best way for people to understand and and and unequivocally
that what I'm saying is true. Like, I can hear people listening right now going, is that true? Is that true? Come on. How can it be a physical injury? I'm gonna say, well, here's how it's a physical injury. When I explain this, no one no one will question it anymore. K? Because I'll give you an an analogy that everyone can understand.
Back in nineteen
seventy, doctor Frank Ochberg published a book with a one through Stanford, scientists,
the guy that came up with PTSD in two thousand twelve back in nineteen
excuse me.
He published a book called
violence and the struggle for existence.
That book was put out by Little Brown,
It was
the the the forward to that book was written by Caretta Scott King, the wife of doctor Martin Luther King because it was two years
after his assassination.
Violence in the struggle for existence. In that book,
there is a chapter called biology and aggression.
And
and what what what
these scientists explain is we one hundred percent know that trauma
is biological.
And the reason we know it, we don't know how,
but the reason we know it
is because if you beat or abuse a dog, a goat, a chicken, a cat,
it's behavior changes.
Either becomes highly aggressive,
fight,
or incredibly
timid, flight.
Well, we didn't just give that goat or that dog a disorder. It's not sentient in the same way a human being is. So doctors, we knew we've known for a long, long time that when we traumatize something, we've changed the biology.
We just didn't know how until doctor Lipac first published on this in two thousand,
I think, two thousand eight.
Barack Obama
endorsed this as far back as two thousand ten.
So it's it's been out there. It's just always associated
with the extreme. You know? So when pop when doctor Lipa published on this in two thousand eight, Frank Ochberg found him. Now they're close friends.
So,
obviously,
we've all can relate to an animal that we know has been traumatized.
We didn't give it a disorder. We know we've changed this biology.
Doctor Lipov
figured out how and then how to reset
anybody to the pre trauma state.
Lorilee Binstock 00:52:04
Wow. Well, I've this is this is extremely fascinating because, you know, I I am a huge fan. I don't know if you've listened to any of my podcasts prior, but I'm a huge advocate for psychedelic assisted therapy.
But I I'm
would you say that doing something like the DSR
And then, I mean,
do you
if
for it to go
haywire again, you would just have to experience traffic and or or you're completely reset.
Jamie Mustard 00:52:33
No. If you go traumatize yourself again, you're one hundred percent going to have to
do this. You know? So a couple things I would, you know, say is one thing is, you know, what
one of the things that got me started on this journey. Is that is a conversation that I had with Daniel Amon? Do you know who he is?
Lorilee Binstock 00:52:53
Yes. I do. Yes. Very fascinating stuff.
Jamie Mustard 00:52:54
Okay.
Yeah. The ring that came to meet Daniel Amon is that forensic psychiatrist,
doctor j Faber, who got me really started on this journey. I mean, I would not If I don't meet Kaye Faber, who runs the Encino Amon Clinic, who's probably the most bona fide forensic psychiatrist
in the United States,
maybe the world in terms of education,
degrees, and board certifications.
He was a fan of the book, The Economist. He contacted me on the website and said, can you come to LA and speak to inner city kids, and I'll pay you through my my foundation? And I said, well, hey, man. I'll I'll come to LA, and I'll talk to kids. But I don't think I could take money for going to my hometown and talking to kids. But but I'll come out and do it, but I I just wanna take your money.
And but public speaking is a way that I make money, but just I wouldn't do it that way. Yeah. I wouldn't do I I told my agent that I couldn't charge for that. You know?
And
Lorilee Binstock 00:53:47
Yeah.
Jamie Mustard 00:53:47
but
this guy, he reads he and I become
friends. So he's the one that vetted the
at the time it was SGB, now it's DCR DSR for me.
And, basically, I asked him about this because I was really wanting to feel better because I was successful
And now I didn't have a reason for discomfort because I thought, well, if I just achieved my goals, I'll I'll feel good. And then I had all my goals achieved, and I was feeling worse than ever, and that was causing me
to be very concerned.
And
what you know, and the precursor to that is you know, growing up in poverty, people you know, I was semi literate into my late teens.
And I went from
because through the a relative gave me an opportunity,
to not be in poverty and to just focus on my studies for the first time in my life and to have eyeglasses and medical care when I was nineteen.
And I went from doing remedial classes at a community college to graduating from the London School of Economics in just over five years.
Lorilee Binstock 00:54:46
No.
Jamie Mustard 00:54:47
And people say, how did you do that? Why did you do that? And the thing was I was desperate. I had lived in poverty and ignorance. And in my mind, I thought if I have affluence, which an education,
that means
I won't have pain. So if if if if if poverty and ignorance meant pain, affluence and education would mean no pain. So it drove me to this extraordinary
overcoming of my life. And I remember
arriving to the one in school of economics
at twenty one or twenty years old, you know, twenty one years old Man.
And thinking, finally, I would be I was away from pain, and I was around, you know, the some of the most smartest people in the world
And when I got there, they had they were just as messed up and maybe had more problems
than the people in the neighborhoods where I grew up.
And so my whole premise fell apart, Laura Lee, because
I thought, well, at least we had a reason to have these problems. We're dealing with, you know, reality every day in terms of aspects of survival. These guys are just have out everything that you can imagine, but they have the same
anomalies and problems. And and so I was kind of disheartened and deflated because it didn't solve my problems.
I didn't understand
why
everyone experiences
this these aspects of existence
until I went through this procedure twenty years later, twenty five years later.
Okay?
But
So, you know, one thing that kind of got me on on this project also was
three and a half years ago, doctor Lipbob teamed up with a private equity firm Sterling Partners and and Chicago.
They are a multimillion dollar private equity firm to open up clinics all over the United States, which is called the Stella Center. And one thing I would say is the only place that has
doctor Lipob's, what I would call, the Stella protocols. Doctor Lipob is the chief medical officer there. Is the Stella center. There's thirty five of them in the United States. If you don't go to a Stella center, you're not getting this. Okay?
But without them, I would have never chosen to do a book because why promote a book to the world if it's not available to everyone?
Right? But back to this conversation.
Lorilee Binstock 00:57:03
That's what I was gonna ask.
Jamie Mustard 00:57:05
Yeah. But let me tell you about this conversation with Daniel Amon, and then I'll shut up and open and let your your questions.
So so doctor one day, doctor Faber said to me, we and I become friends. He'd written a book called Escape, rehabilitate your brain and stay on the legal system that kind of really where he where they were
able to rehabilitate people's brains that had been through addicts, and I was really impressed by the data science in that book.
And so one day, he starts insisting that Daniel, Eamon and I have to have a phone call. Right? So
So he he forces Daniel Amon and I onto a Zoom call.
I was excited about it because I get to meet, you know, the great Daniel Amon. I think Daniel Lima did not wanna be there.
Lorilee Binstock 00:57:47
Yeah.
Jamie Mustard 00:57:48
He was like, what am I doing on a call with this guy? And so what I did for the first four it was about an hour and a half call. What I did the first forty five minutes of that call was just asked Daniel questions. Why this? Why that? You know, just was curious.
And I think after about forty five minutes later,
And, you know, he said, how can I help you? Jamie, what do you want for me? And I said, listen. You're the one that's been leading the charge for the last thirty years saying, that mental
issues or brain health issues, that they're biological.
He knew nothing about the this aspect of the sympathetic nervous system, the SDB. I wouldn't say nothing, but it was not something he'd been investigating. He was mostly dealing
with brain toxicity
and TBI.
Lorilee Binstock 00:58:30
Mhmm.
Jamie Mustard 00:58:31
And I said, listen. You're the one that's been leading this charge.
So
if I'm right and this is an a major part of the mechanism, a,
then you just you need to be a part of it.
You know, you're the one that you're the first person through the gate taking all the hits. Saying this stuff is biological. This is a major part of the equation.
You I think that it makes total sense that you're a part of this.
And so he this is forty five minutes in. I can kinda see him relax, and he says, hold on.
And he starts googling right in front of me thoroughly.
And I I we're I'm staring at him through the Zoom, and his kinda mouth comes, falls open, and he goes,
and I said, what?
And he said, hey. There is a very credible
study here that says that this is seventy percent
effective in the permanent relief of most ex post traumatic stress symptoms.
And I said, whoa. Whoa. Whoa, Daniel? And then and he said,
And I said, well, Daniel, that's an old study with the it's gotta be a ten year old paper with the recent modifications of the dual injection in the right and left side. It's at eighty five to ninety percent.
Lorilee Binstock 00:59:34
Mhmm.
Jamie Mustard 00:59:42
And Daniel Lehman looks at me through the Zoom and says,
Jamie,
you don't understand.
At seventy percent, this is no surprise winning work. I'll help you.
Lorilee Binstock 00:59:56
Wow.
Jamie Mustard 00:59:57
Yeah. And then he's been a massive partner for me.
You know, I sent my first awarded people that I sent to Chicago because they were doing it wrong at Womac,
was I a private jet company donated a plane to send thirteen of my special forces operators,
to
Fort Bragg, or no, to to Chicago.
I scan their brains and name in clinic in Chicago, do this procedure on them over two days, scan their brains again less than forty eight hours later, and Amy. So Amy's been a massive
supporter
partner for me. I could not have done this book without him.
Lorilee Binstock 01:00:29
Wow. Amazing.
Amazing.
So
Is this procedure covered by insurance by any chance?
Jamie Mustard 01:00:37
It isn't, but it's actually a not a very expensive procedure compared to the cost of talk therapy, the cost of all the other things that you could be doing out there. Compared to hyperbaric.
You can there's a it's typically I think it's probably in the two to three thousand dollar range.
But you don't have but it but then but the amount of gain
or I don't know if I wanna use that word, but the amount of
Lorilee Binstock 01:01:00
Benefit. Mhmm.
Jamie Mustard 01:01:01
benefit,
change, relief, comfort
is kind of hard to
It's it's it's too unbelievable. You know, it's it's
it's it's I mean, it's it's it's like it's you just I was nervous to do it, Lolly, because I'm an artist, and I thought if my angst goes away, will I be able to create?
Lorilee Binstock 01:01:23
Oh, yes. That's a very yeah. That's a very legitimate concern as an artist.
Jamie Mustard 01:01:27
Yeah. But the yeah. But the thing is, like you know, think about it like but here's what actually happened. That was my concern. But here's what happened. If you're stuck in fight or flight and you think there's a tiger every second of the day, you're not gonna be able to experience emotion. You're not gonna cry during a movie,
or have lovely moments with people. If you feel like a tiger is about to eat you all the time, you're concerned with a tiger. These mere nerves in your neck are lying to your brain.
So when that when that went away and I was no longer in fire flight,
I was ex my joy
My ability to experience emotion was just freed,
and it made me a far better artist.
Lorilee Binstock 01:02:05
Wow.
Well, I you know, I'm just I am bothered by the fact that there's so many effective treatments I feel like that are out there. And this being a
Jamie Mustard 01:02:06
Yep.
Lorilee Binstock 01:02:15
a huge one
that insurance doesn't cover, but they'll they cover talk therapy for twenty, thirty years.
Makes you wonder.
But, yes, this is is this something that anyone's, like, lobbying for for for insurance to say, hey. This is
mental health is a huge problem,
you know, in our country and worldwide. You know, this is something that that should be covered for for
the majority of people who probably need it the most are probably the ones that who wouldn't be able to spend
you know, two thousand, three thousand dollars on it. You know, this this is this is this is my concern with psychedelic work or I mean, I'm ketamine is not my my
one of the things that I advocate for, but, I mean, you know, the other stuff is illegal. But once it does become legal, you know, the insurance is is probably not going to cover it, especially immediately, and they're not even covering ketamine, which is legal.
So is this something that, you know,
somebody is is mhmm.
Jamie Mustard 01:03:14
Oh, okay. It's a great question. It's a great question. And I will say that I'm a massive fan of ketamine.
Okay?
And the reason I'm a fan of ketamine is because of how it works. What you know, I'm not a fan of the disassociate associative state. I don't think that's how it works. A lot of people would disagree with me. Ketamine,
the way that doctor Lip Bob, if you were here, would describe it,
is
like fertilizer for nerve growth in the brain.
Lorilee Binstock 01:03:41
Mhmm.
Jamie Mustard 01:03:41
So a lot of people that have
that are having mental issues
You know, when I was on that call with Daniel, I kept using the term mental illness or something. He looked at me really sour one time, and he said, please. Don't use that term. Please stop.
And I said, why? What's wrong with it? He goes, well, it's not true. It's not no one has that.
I said, well, it's stigmatizing,
and it's inhumane, and it's not true. And I said, well, we what what do you use? And he said brain health issues. Let's just call it brain health issues.
Lorilee Binstock 01:04:15
That's legit. Yeah.
Jamie Mustard 01:04:16
Yeah. So so, you know, Nathaniel's been scanning brains
since nineteen eighty nine. His whole thing was when he started and he was a considered, you know, an out outsider for a long time and had a opposed, you know, even a quack. As the brain science has come in the last ten years, he's been hailed as a genius and hero.
Okay? And
but, basically, his view was, you know, if your arm hurts and I'm gonna get to the insurance, thing. I just wanna give this kind of entry to it. If your arm hurts or your leg hurts, you x-ray it. Somebody acts crazy, and you know one's looking at people's brains when they act crazy, he thought that made no sense. And that's why in nineteen eighty nine, over thirty years ago, he started scanning brains. In the last thirty years, it's made him the most famous psychiatrist in America that probably drugs people the least. His thing on drugs on on
on psychotropics
is when you use a psychotropic, which can be effective to give somebody relief,
you're creating a problem to solve a problem. The psychotropic
changes your brain so that you need it. So now you have two problems.
That he thinks you know, so
But
so he's got a massive dataset of what of what
of
two almost two hundred thousand brain scans. So one of the things that we know is we know that alcohol ravages the brain
in terms of blood flow and other toxicities. With
Lorilee Binstock 01:05:38
Right.
Jamie Mustard 01:05:40
THC is even worse.
So we freed up marijuana. It's legal in the state of Oregon where I live, but
it actually ravages the brain and creates all sorts of
mental
problems in terms of this the anxiety,
and
and then you need it just to feel normal, and you're destroying your brain.
Okay?
So all I'm interested in is the data science. But back to this insurance question,
right now, this NYU study is being done. The army's been studying for years. So there's lots of incredible studies. There's one sixty minutes. There was a sixty minutes episode five, ten years ago that talked about the army study.
But the right now, the the the
there's a a study being done in FMRI
or an FMRI study being done in NYU that makes this unequivocally
undeniable.
So I don't think we're far away from the insurance companies approving this. Also, the the doctor is connected to a nonprofit charity.
Called Race PTSD
now,
and they're paying for treatment for a phenomenal amount of people. So you can apply to to that. But what I would say is,
you know, get the invisible machine book, understand that a huge part of the book is explaining how this relates to all the other incredible therapeutics out there. I believe psilocybin works. We don't have a lot of data on the long term effects of it. But with with the DSR,
there's no down there I don't wanna say there's no real downside. You get all of the gain. You get it instantly.
And you don't have to worry about
you know, I've had people tell me they do psilocybin and they have a really bad experience on what psychological or same thing with ketamine, which I'm a fan of. So this is all the upside with none of the downside,
and you yeah, I had a doctor one time, a military doctor that was telling me that,
you know, that there you know, this wasn't the only treatment, and I was overselling it and blah blah blah blah blah blah.
And at Fort Bragg, and I and I said to her, okay.
Let me ask you a question.
Say somebody was in real trouble, and they weren't feeling well. And they can and then you have every
modality at what your disposal to give them. What should they do first?
And she said,
well, they should do the DSR first
because then we that they would get so far in so little time with no downside,
that it would it makes everything else more effective. So what we're finding is that people that reset the It's the difference between physical therapy and a broken leg,
Laura Lee.
You physical therapy is gonna be far more effective if you reset the leg. You wouldn't do physical therapy over a broken mic. So you're gonna find that if you do psilocybin,
where you do hyperbaric,
where you do talk therapy,
These things go exponentially
faster and better and have more far more efficacy if you do a d s DSR first.
The my most there's a again, all of this is parsed apart in the book, the Invisalign.
The Temple of that book is a guy named Trevor Beenan,
who is
a guy that I was afraid of for about a year, who's now one of my best friends, and I was afraid of him.
I was afraid of him because I interviewed him at Fort Bragg.
He is a guy that was molested by a stepfather for eight years from eight to sixteen. The guy went to jail.
He shot up medical heroin in Afghanistan.
He killed people. He's seen people killed. And for thirty years, he was homicidal towards a stepfather in suicidal. The only thing keeping him alive
was
his wife and his children.
This guy just hit just wanted to die. And so when I met him, I interviewed him for three hours of Fort Bragg, was the hardest interview I ever did. He started calling me wanting to talk, and I did not want that. I didn't want he wanted to send me stuff. I didn't want him having my address. I was terrified of this guy when I got back to Portland after that trip before Greg.
The you the military does not want special forces doesn't want crazy special operators out there. So there's they get more resources than regular army. They they had spent hundreds of thousands of dollars, you know, trying to
giving Trevor, everything you could possibly reimagine, e m d r, every therapy, the the greenberry foundation,
the military would pay for him to get better. Nothing worked. He was suicidal
and homicidal towards his stepfather.
After that interview, it took me six months to get her to Chicago,
That was eighteen months ago, Trevor's just gone back to being a person. And
Lorilee Binstock 01:10:15
No. Wow.
Jamie Mustard 01:10:17
and the and, you know, and and what's and and, you know, you you would never know there's anything wrong with him. He looks like a guy that would be playing he he looks like an actor that would play a special forces hero in a movie.
He's just a good looking white guy. You know? But he was beating him the Latin kings at eleven
Lorilee Binstock 01:10:33
Yeah.
Jamie Mustard 01:10:35
and grew up in poverty outside of Chicago, but you would never know it from looking at him.
And so that so three months ago, he's doing ten in Portland,
He came to addition for Ted in Portland a few months ago, and this guy that I didn't wanna even know before he did the DSR
stayed in my house.
Lorilee Binstock 01:10:55
Well, wow.
Jamie Mustard 01:10:55
Yeah. Yeah. So
yeah. So so the so that's how I I the the way I explained in terms of other therapies is set the leg, and then all these other amazing modalities out there will be so much more effective.
Lorilee Binstock 01:11:10
You really have me.
I'm like, after this conversation, I'm going to be googling where this is this treatment is available because I am extremely
intrigued because
Yes. I've done, you know, the psilocybin,
the MDMA,
and
it has worked wonders for me. I was able to get off of all my SSM our eyes. And
but there, you know, there are moments when I
I I feel like my nervous system just gets goes haywire, you know, after like, four or five months after I've done it. So I'm wondering, like, am I I should I try this DSR
treatment?
And then continue along my IFS therapy and, you know, whatever else that that, you know, I'm doing now.
And, yeah, I'm I'm extremely
intrigued. Where can we find more information about where
this is available?
Jamie Mustard 01:12:02
Okay. Well well, can can I comment on what you just said about yourself? And then I'll tell you.
Lorilee Binstock 01:12:05
Yes. Please.
Jamie Mustard 01:12:08
Listen.
You're
any other thing that you're doing, you're mitigating against it. These things work. Like, yoga works.
We're also not meant to live in artificial cities and virtual environments.
So this system is a very useful system
if they were in a tiger infested jungle, being stuck in fight or fight is actually very good. We actually it makes sense.
That
trauma is not a disorder. It makes sense that it's a physical injury because we would all have to have an identical response to fire flight or to trauma
with fire flight if we're gonna survive as a species. It doesn't make any sense that it would be a disorder. Okay? We you were of a survival species. We have to have a homogeneous uniform response
Lorilee Binstock 01:12:41
Mhmm.
Jamie Mustard 01:12:48
to survival or we don't survive.
K?
But, you know, what you're doing when you do yoga,
psilocybin I've seen wonders with psilocybin. And hyperbaric wonders, but a lot of that is your minute it's mitigation.
Like, you have to do yoga. You have to run every day. Nature is incredible.
You know, we're we're you know, I find, you know, nature helps mitigate against this, but we don't live in most of us don't live in natural environments anymore, so we don't have that mitigator.
Lorilee Binstock 01:13:14
Right.
Jamie Mustard 01:13:15
Right?
So
you can kind of reduce it and bring it down through holistic health. But the only way to reset it is to reset it. Okay?
Again,
the the Stella center. Go to I I think it's is it stellar center dot com?
Lorilee Binstock 01:13:33
I might be able to find it.
Jamie Mustard 01:13:34
Yeah. Let me
Lorilee Binstock 01:13:35
Sela center dot com. Yep. You're right.
Jamie Mustard 01:13:37
yeah. Yeah. Or go to talk yeah. I would also highly recommend
Lorilee Binstock 01:13:38
Excellent.
Jamie Mustard 01:13:42
if you're not getting this from Stella Center, I don't work for them.
They don't pay me. K. I'm not a
I just note the only place that has the modern protocols, which I'll call the stellar protocols, is the stellar center.
I if you're not getting this,
if you're not going to sell a center, you're not getting this. That's why I had to send
my first cohort of people two years ago from Fort Bragg from Woamath, the most advanced medical hospital a military hospital in the world, I had to send my guys to Chicago.
So first of all, Larlie, where do you live?
Lorilee Binstock 01:14:16
I live in Washington, DC.
Jamie Mustard 01:14:18
Okay. Well, they're
Lorilee Binstock 01:14:20
There's one in New York, I see.
Jamie Mustard 01:14:20
I would highly recommend
Yeah. I do go to New York. No. Like like, you you're like, first of all, let's talk offline,
but I I would I want you to go to Chicago and get it from doctor Lipoff.
Lorilee Binstock 01:14:27
Yes.
Jamie Mustard 01:14:32
Unequivocally.
Okay? And if you do that, I'll get you a discount. Okay?
Lorilee Binstock 01:14:36
Well, yes. Well, let's let let's chat after this conversation. She said, yes. That's a very
Jamie Mustard 01:14:39
Okay. Okay. If you decide, there's pressure.
Lorilee Binstock 01:14:42
no. I I'm very intrigued. I I'm
trust me. I I mean, from where I was five years ago is just exponentially better. I don't recognize who I was, but I do have these moments where You know? I'm I just tore my ACL. I've just I'm recovering from ACL surgery, and I was single parenting for, like, a week, and my children just the sound of my children's voices up stairs screaming
would, like, send me into, like, this, like,
what is happening? I'm just freaking out over no reason. It's really because and I'm and I imagine myself and I think about Peter Levine's book where I was, like, maybe I'm I feel like a wounded animal
with
the just this this slight sound of, like, danger
or any issues
sends my nervous system, like, off the charts.
And this was over the last week.
Jamie Mustard 01:15:29
Yeah.
One hundred percent one of the things I hear over and over, and this is true for me,
is, you know, that moment where you just react, that's a physiological response. That is an overactive sympathetic nervous system. That's what went away when I got this. So you get that extra five seconds. You get that extra ten seconds where you're not having a physiological
This is a LIVE replay of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast which aired Wednesday, April 19th, 2023 at 1130am ET on Fireside Chat.
Today's guest is Mandy Harvey, a global leader in trauma healing.
Lorilee Binstock 00:00:34
Welcome. I'm Loriee Binstock
And this is a trauma survivor, thriver's podcast.
Hello, everyone. My apologies
Thank you, for so much for joining me today live on FireSide chat where you can be a part of the conversation as my virtual on and time your home loyalty been stuck. Everyone has an opportunity to ask me or our guest
question if By requesting to hop on stage, you're sending a message in the chat box, I will try to get to you but I do I ask everyone be respectful. Today's guest is Mandy
rv she is a global leader in trauma healing.
Maybe, thank you so much for joining me today.
Mandy Harvey 00:03:20
You're welcome. Thank you for having me.
Lorilee Binstock 00:03:23
Well, I do want to talk
to... You know where I wanna talk to you about chronic illness
and trauma in that connection. We've had folks
talk a little bit about that. But you also have a
program and a protocol to actually solve it all. So
for for people who haven't heard anyway previous
podcast. Could you imagine
talk about the connection between chronic illness and trauma.
Mandy Harvey 00:03:51
Yeah. Absolutely. Well,
what's very interesting about chronic health issues
as we become adults once we start to develop them,
it's not in uncommon. I think we all know someone or more than one person who might
suffer with some type of chronic health issue or autoimmune condition.
It is a very common
experience. But there is a correlation between
developing that later in life and what we experience
in our early childhood. And
What's really interesting to mean
is that our protocols currently
to
care for our chronic health issues to care for our our autoimmune condition
are often focused on our diet, which is an important element. It's
focus on our lifestyle, which is also important and perhaps some medication
But the people that I work with off
and don't resolve their health issues or don't
feel a sense of relief with those three pillars.
And in my own hinge
of being a functional nutritional therapy practitioner.
And someone who is also experiencing practice
I started to really dive into the
under eigenvalues of why would I like get... Why would someone struggle
to improve their health when they're eating the right things.
When they are
moving their bodies in the right way, and they're feeling some relief, but they're really
not able to get over the edge of feeling
like they're able to thrive in their life. And as I started to, I need cover
and discover kind of the correlation between our early childhood experiences
in our house leader in life, that really showed to
help me see this many piece that we often don't.
We don't include in our protocols we're not told about it, and That was also the key
for myself
and it comes down to
what I like to talk about in terms of emotions in our
immune system. So emotions in general, they have one fundamental
function. And that really our emotions that you think about them is
to allow what is healthy, what is nourishing and what a supportive
for us, allowing my into our life and
Our emotions can also help us keep out what is
toxic and dangerous. They can become this filter for us. They can be
this
kind of this roadmap map if you will to help and and know which what
helpful for us and what isn't helpful. But
that is also the role of our immune system. Our immune system does exactly the
thing It's to keep out what's toxic and to let in what's nourishing
lighting in the nutrients of vitamins, the healthy bacteria,
and to keep out and destroy
what isn't healthy and a port of?
So the emotional in the immune system are exactly the same function.
So when we experience something traumatic in childhood, or even if we
well, meaning, parents, but they unfortunately just
didn't meet our needs as a child, And we learn that
we need to refresh our emotions or we learn to
hold shame about who we are and how we're
how
how we're feeling or we are taught that we are
you know, we believe are bad or wrong because of experiences we've had in childhood.
We start to refresh ourselves physically, and that can have an impact
on our immune system. So the more that we learn to
sorry emotions and the more that we impress ourselves just in general,
the more impact it has in our immune.
So when we going a little bit deeper in the
childhood when we have a traumatic experience in childhood or we have ongoing
traumatic experiences like abuse or an neglect or
emotionally unavailable.
Caretaker or anything in the realm of that.
We
our bodies go through a process to activate our
stress hormone. So say we experience them.
Fall our body goes to the process of activating our adrenals and activating our
hormones months
that process is meant to help us ready our body to
site a threat to run away from the threat or and
you know, get ourselves to safety but as the child
oftentimes, if we're experiencing abuse on a regular basis, we
or any of these instructions circumstances would... I just shared. We're not able to
Lorilee Binstock 00:08:48
Mhmm.
Mandy Harvey 00:08:47
run away or fight our
abuse in most cases. And so
the body cannot turn off those functions once it has started.
And what happens is one that trauma
as a child gets stuck in our body and in our psyche, but to that
stress of that trauma. And the
activation of our stress hormones.
To ready our body to fight or flee that process
start to impact our biology, and it
essentially, makes us more susceptible to getting stressed.
Faster. So if you think about we experience something like that in childhood, and as we
become an adult. We may... If we have not,
healed those experiences and we're we've learned to
of physically that stress response becomes faster and found
Lorilee Binstock 00:09:41
Mm-mm
Mandy Harvey 00:09:42
share and faster. We experience stress an adult
And eventually, our bodies just get out. We can only handle so much.
Before our bodies burn out, and then we start to develop
these chronic health issues because of the impact, that that's stressed.
Had had on our immune system and the
be rep refreshing of those emotions and the energy of those emotions in our body starts to
deteriorate our health, and then we start to develop these health issues.
Lorilee Binstock 00:10:09
Wow, you know, I
manic experiencing was
so vital in my healing and understanding
trauma when I was first
seeking help in twenty twenty and residential treatment
Mandy Harvey 00:10:30
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:10:29
experiencing was a big part of it.
And so I'm able to kind of
understand that I obviously have my moments where I've
I I can't really think logically and rash
about what's actually happening in my brain, But
you know, I I think you know this. I I actually tour my Acl recently.
And I just got surgery a couple weeks ago.
And my husband has got as in a way
Mandy Harvey 00:10:56
Oh,
Lorilee Binstock 00:10:56
So I I feel like my stress level is
so heightened, and I feel like I have been so just
Mandy Harvey 00:11:02
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:11:05
so completely reactive with my children, and I realized
when I was... I just like, downstairs stairs, and we live in
you know... It's like three stories and Capitol Hill very narrow and
tall.
And my children I heard them on the third floor, screaming.
And, like, immediately, I just felt like everything just
ten up because, typically, if they're screaming, I'm like, okay.
Mandy Harvey 00:11:31
Yes.
Lorilee Binstock 00:11:30
I'll be there. But now, but I'm like, oh my gosh. It's gonna take me forever to get
the stairs right now. Like, I don't know what's gonna happen.
And I started getting stressed out and angry and upset. And I... You know, I just
imagine a wounded animal in the forest and just like
Mandy Harvey 00:11:43
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:11:45
being wounded and, like, just the sound of wrestling will like,
really heighten their awareness of what's what's happening.
Am I am I going to die right now? Because that's that's the feeling I was getting.
But, yes, no. I I just
but that just an understanding of
from so experiencing has been so vital.
For me,
and I wanna get into how you're working that into the programs that
you're providing for people, but I do wanted to I do wanna ask, like,
if you are comfortable in telling your personal story because I know for
for me, most of the... The my my
podcast in the trauma survivor driver's podcast. And
the majority of people, if not all of the people who come on really
their they're
gift of helping people from healing their own their own toe
Mandy Harvey 00:12:38
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:12:38
their own experiences and trauma that they have experienced. So
Mandy Harvey 00:12:41
Oh,
Lorilee Binstock 00:12:42
I was wondering if you were were comfortable
and talking about your own experience.
Mandy Harvey 00:12:44
Yeah. Absolutely.
Just similar with you, Semantic experiencing was a huge
modality of healing for me that really
got me to the other side. I feel like really kinda helped push me
the on other side of the healing pendulum, if you will.
But I always... I say that I was born into
I was born to a single mother
who was operating from her own
trauma
Lorilee Binstock 00:13:12
Mhmm.
Mandy Harvey 00:13:15
and she had men come in and out of our life.
And those men weren't the greatest, and were often very abusive.
Kidney
Lorilee Binstock 00:13:24
Yeah.
Mandy Harvey 00:13:25
So from a very young age, I experience
sexual abuse from these men
and from the age of five, to the age of fourteen,
and
my relationship with my mother was one that she was not home.
She's not around very often. She was single parent in most of the years and
she was working multiple jobs. So I became
I had to become very independent to just serve
five, and she was not available physically. Most of the time,
So I learned to just kinda take care of myself and live in this
very un unsettling.
Level. I'm loving if you will home.
And from a very early age learning to detach from my body.
Because so many things that happened to me, I just
didn't wanna feel anything and just learned to survive.
And what I learned, how I learned to survive was and
very important because I have sure I survived it. I've gotten to the other side of it.
But at the around the age of thirteen, she married
An individual who I was a police office
and was very abusive and manipulative.
Lorilee Binstock 00:14:42
Mm-mm.
Mandy Harvey 00:14:43
And took the abuse to a whole new level.
With me. And
would use his power to abuse
more and more and more.
And eventually, I
told someone in school, what was going on, I told them what was happening
in the sexual abuse I was experiencing from this individual.
And
social workers got involved, You know, the whole process and started to unravel
And I became
Very nervous about
talking to my mom about this because I had already talked to her once.
Lorilee Binstock 00:15:26
Mm-mm
Mandy Harvey 00:15:25
And told her what had been happening why he'd been doing and
she said, you know, all talk to him. I'll make sure
he, you know, he stopped that.
Lorilee Binstock 00:15:37
Yeah.
Mandy Harvey 00:15:37
And nothing changed. So when I talk to
show that day after speaking to a account school and then telling me
we will need to report this.
In social worker will get involved and most likely, he'll be arrested and
you know, all the things that happen as a result of that.
I got real nervous. And I know well, can I please, you know, touch my mom
before you make that call, I believe it was a Friday or or
a Thursday was towards the end of a week? And
my mom's pattern and I every day
does she at home from work because we go in this walk.
It was the only moment in our day that was semi my human.
Where we could tap into some sort of connection. And so at the end of that walk,
I shared with her, Hey. This is what happened at school today. I
shared this with counselor. They told me blah blah blah blah blah.
She
turned me with rage in her eyes.
And anger and said how could you do
destroy our family
Lorilee Binstock 00:16:38
Oh my gosh.
Mandy Harvey 00:16:41
How could you do that chance?
And it was in the moment.
That was a pivotal moment in my life because I took on the beliefs
that my intuition was wrong.
That
Lorilee Binstock 00:16:54
Yeah. Question.
Mandy Harvey 00:16:56
I didn't know how to make good decisions for myself in that.
And, you know, throughout my adult life, I
gave away all dungeon making power over my life because of that moment.
So it became a pivotal moment in my healing process, but
what happened after that was a couple days later,
That was reported. He was put into jail. He
was released out on bond. There was
restraining order. So we... My mom and I were essentially, you know,
kind of navigating this world. I was
send to the police I was picked up at school when day by a police
officer and interrogated for hours on end.
I think they were trying to break me or
Lorilee Binstock 00:17:43
No.
Mandy Harvey 00:17:45
if I was lying about what had... I had a experienced,
Of course, I was not, and that was also another traumatic moment having to
relive and talk through exactly what I'd happened to me
to two men in this room without a social worker.
Without any other support in the room it was very traumatic.
After that occurred a couple days later,
I came home from school and found suicide letter.
From both him and my mother. And
they were gone. No nowhere to be found.
So I was... I moved in with some family members.
And it was a a couple days later where they were found. They had taken their life.
Shop themselves.
Lorilee Binstock 00:18:34
Oh my goodness.
Mandy Harvey 00:18:35
Yeah.
And that became also
huge moment of evidence for me about my decision making
really wrong because it created such destruction. My
entire your life changed in a moment.
From
- No longer having a mother and, you know,
in the at the in the early years, I wanted her
even though she was or not,
emotionally available even though she was not neglect, even though she was alarming and abused
happened to me and putting me in these very unhealthy situations. I still wanted her.
Choose my mom.
And
you know, that's the interesting dynamics when we're children that I
attachment versus authenticity.
We attach to our caregivers regardless because we need that
need we need to feel like we belong some way
And that was really hard. It was very hard that you can imagine.
I start a therapy you started Em or Amd about
Yep.
Lorilee Binstock 00:19:37
In. Oh, wow.
Mandy Harvey 00:19:39
Right away to start to work on the guilt.
Because I felt like, I was the one that pulled the trigger
essentially, I took our lives.
Lorilee Binstock 00:19:48
Well,
Mandy Harvey 00:19:49
So I spent years I took my high school years
going through Ed,
and about my sophomore year, I started to get really just
done. I felt
I didn't wanna talk about it anymore. I didn't... My body started to really a
and hurt and all I could think about, which I just wanna see my mom again. And
I attempted to take my life when I was fifteen years old.
Lorilee Binstock 00:20:14
Mhmm
Mandy Harvey 00:20:13
I had a near death experience
I took and swallowed a whole bottle of sleeping pills one day at school.
Pass out.
The only thing I remember is waking up to this
beautiful, like, super warm
super loving golden
light, essentially.
Like, the most powerful feeling you could ever imagine and
time it by a thousand.
And I can remember thinking, oh my gosh. I've made it. I'm gonna get to see my mom again. I just
like, you waited
Lorilee Binstock 00:20:46
Oh my gosh.
Mandy Harvey 00:20:48
was because I had missed her so much.
And I remember thinking, oh, gosh.
Can't wait. To can't wait. When do I get to see her?
And I felt hand
I felt pressure on my chest, and I was being pushed back away.
And the only thing I heard was it's not your time.
And I welcome
Lorilee Binstock 00:21:13
Wow. That's powerful.
Mandy Harvey 00:21:15
it was so powerful. I woke up to the end of the
day. Kids were washing out of school, and I was like, what
happened.
Lorilee Binstock 00:21:25
Yeah
Mandy Harvey 00:21:26
I was just there. I was just there bike
what's wrong with me? Why can I just do this?
I made it home. I I gotta ride
home, and I started to loosen. I started to
have these really strange reactions to the sleep
being told in my body, and I was shaking. I was just
like, out of my mind and called nine eleven one, and they
put me into Icu for a couple of days.
And then admitted me to a mental institution for period of
time so that I could undergo some intense
treatment and was diagnosed with Ptsd.
Lorilee Binstock 00:22:09
mm-mm
Mandy Harvey 00:22:10
Put on some medication.
Some antidepressants, and that really became him intense
treatment and therapy for
a period of time, and then I continued my therapy
outside of that till the end of
high school. You know, I graduated high school, and I graduated
treatment and I was like, right. Life here I come.
But what I didn't realize was, you know, the layers and layers
and layer and layers of that experience.
I had gone through four years of therapy and thought, Okay. Like, I had to
touched it all. Right? Like, I'm good. But
as an adult, I started to become very upset.
With things being perfect. I started to
affect my outer world.
Like a magazine.
That you would see, you know, like, the cover of, like,
home and garden or, you know, the
cover or, you know, when you look at Crate barrel, and you see all of their
sing so perfectly, like that essentially was me
in my life, I
I perfected my outward appearance, my outward home, I was
you know, married with kids and everything was perfect, but on the inside,
I felt like I was crumbling and trying to hide it.
I kept pretending, but everything was fine, pretending that
all good. But really underneath, I was starting to
experience anxiety.
Major stress. And the more I felt just
heated within my body, the more I perfected and got obsessed.
With making everything exactly as it should be on the howard.
Were in the outward world.
In my twenties, in my late twenties, I started to have flashback
to my abuse as a child, and so I went through another round
multiple years of intense therapy.
In my late thirties
you know, all these years, I've been in and out them unfair of therapy, mostly top
therapy except for
in my teenage years, I went to em r. But in my late thirties,
all of a sudden in I started feeling
and
rage in my body and
the way I... I have an example of what this slips like
for me, and that was my daughter, my youngest.
Essentially beautiful she she's my teacher in
many ways.
Lorilee Binstock 00:24:40
Yes.
Mandy Harvey 00:24:42
She has this beautiful range of expressing emotion.
She can express bliss and joy.
And I'll go all the way to the other side with rage and anger.
And she just expresses so freely and
in the early year, she was about five around the time that I started having
this anger started to build up in my body.
It's very was very uncomfortable for me to watch her be so
angry at times. And I would try to... I would try to like,
Lorilee Binstock 00:25:17
Yeah.
Mandy Harvey 00:25:14
do everything I could to make sure she wasn't angry. Like, how can I clean her?
So I'd never have to hear her screaming because that literally sends
like pain ting throughout my entire body.
Lorilee Binstock 00:25:27
Mhmm.
Mandy Harvey 00:25:28
And there was one moment where
she was having this massive temper tantrum
and I, like, screaming and yelling and shots with
angry at me for... I'm sure the stupid is of things.
Lorilee Binstock 00:25:41
As children sometimes do.
Mandy Harvey 00:25:42
Yeah. Totally.
Lorilee Binstock 00:25:44
Yes.
Mandy Harvey 00:25:45
I'm sitting... I'm at the kitchen washing the dishes.
With my back to her, and I can steal this fire
rolling through my body from my feet
to my head, and it just hot, and it's burning, and I'm like,
oh my god. It she needs to shut up. I I
I was, like, what I'm trying to breathe? I'm trying to, like, okay. You know, I can.
I can't do anything. I just kinda like a letter her ride this out, but it was like, this
this movement was happening in my body, and I cannot control it in it
poof out through the top of my head.
Explosion I turned around, and I had this glass in my hand that I was washing and I
through and another feet, and I yelled to shot.
Showed up. And I remember seeing her face was like,
massive.
Shock and fear. Like, oh my god. Mom never yelled at me.
What to happen?
She's crying. I'm crying, and I'm like,
this isn't not who I am. Like, I don't want to be
like, throwing glasses of my children. Like, what
That's not me. That's not me.
And I knew something was going on. I just
could not understand or had the language I'd really understand it. So
that's what really became the catalyst for going and seeking soma thematic
experiencing therapy. And really,
learning how to unpack
the story and the energy and the emotions and all the parts
of me that were so stuck in my body from all the things
Lorilee Binstock 00:27:23
Wow.
Mandy Harvey 00:27:22
experienced as a child, and I took about a couple
you know, two and a half years. But then those two and a half years,
I healed more than I did in the last twenty years. Of
talk Therapy, and that's when I was like, oh gosh. Learning this about this connection
in our body and how our health is impacted.
How our relationships become impacted how we
the refreshing of our cells and all the ways really impacts
and impacts us at such a deep level.
That really for me was a light bulb. Like, oh my gosh.
People need to know him about that. I need to know about the the how
trauma at such an early age.
Can get stuck in our body.
And
you know, that stuck energy that stuck
part of us, wants to be healed and tries to be healed.
But
you know, over time as we don't really live that it shows up in healthy
shoes. I show that this relationship issues is shows up an and it just
for me with all the things.
Lorilee Binstock 00:28:29
Wow. That's power. You know, I've
Mandy Harvey 00:28:32
Right.
Lorilee Binstock 00:28:33
I found myself in your shoes with my children
I think it's hard if you if you've experienced trauma,
your your your children are their your best teachers
Mandy Harvey 00:28:44
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:28:43
sometimes it's hard to see what they're trying to show you.
Is really, really hard, and and I'm I'm realizing that, you know,
Mandy Harvey 00:28:54
Or.
Lorilee Binstock 00:28:52
I'm an internal family systems therapy.
Which is it's it's amazing. And and, you know, it's
it's it it is really hard to see my daughter because
in a way, she's like, a reflection of the things that I really hated about myself.
Right? Like, the, you know, the self loading of why, you know,
my parents would not let me feel.
Mandy Harvey 00:29:17
Yes.
Lorilee Binstock 00:29:15
God forbid. I cried, gone from head, like,
I showed motion and
you know? And I'm trying to give my children the space for them to
show their emotion
there times when I look at my daughter, and I'm like, oh my god. That's me That is
Mandy Harvey 00:29:34
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:29:33
- And this is not good. Because I have not
Mandy Harvey 00:29:36
Oh,
Lorilee Binstock 00:29:37
come to terms with that part of me yet.
Mandy Harvey 00:29:40
Yeah
Lorilee Binstock 00:29:40
But I'm I'm... It's the awareness.
Mandy Harvey 00:29:42
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:29:44
That I'm realizing.
So the... And, you know,
for me as well with the sad experiencing
for me, I was like, oh my gosh. Because you, I think it was
my third episode
of my podcast were right. We're at ninety three.
Mandy Harvey 00:30:02
Alright.
Lorilee Binstock 00:30:02
But my third episode of of my podcast I talked about schematic
Mandy Harvey 00:30:06
That
Lorilee Binstock 00:30:05
experiencing because I had never heard about traumatic experiencing
prior to my treatment.
And just not understand
Mandy Harvey 00:30:14
Oh,
Lorilee Binstock 00:30:14
you know, understanding that that energies
Mandy Harvey 00:30:18
It is
Lorilee Binstock 00:30:17
trapped in your body is I feel like it's everything because it's like well, whoa
Mandy Harvey 00:30:22
yeah
Or
Lorilee Binstock 00:30:21
then you can name it, and then you can understand it.
And then you can find the root to it.
Mandy Harvey 00:30:26
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:30:27
And and now what you're saying is
it's related to all these chronic health issues.
And you're right. I didn't really. Even even post
experience in free. I didn't even realize that
I used to go to the host to the every single year as of a child.
Mandy Harvey 00:30:44
And
yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:30:45
For for stomach issues. And they'd be like, oh, it's gastro arthritis.
Mandy Harvey 00:30:48
Mhmm.
Lorilee Binstock 00:30:50
And
after a while, like, wait a minute. There's this correlate, like,
I I've been dealing with the this this trauma from
childhood sexual abuse and
And then all of a sudden, once I started actually getting help,
I I haven't been to the hospital
sense for
Mandy Harvey 00:31:10
That's great.
Lorilee Binstock 00:31:11
for my gastro that I was there for a
for every single year,
at least once a year.
Mandy Harvey 00:31:16
Yes.
Lorilee Binstock 00:31:19
It's crazy.
Mandy Harvey 00:31:20
That's really... It. Yeah. It's similar. Like, I a diagnosed with
Ibs when I was a eighteen team,
and I always had adjusted issues always
And it makes sense now we hold a lot of emotion and
you know, At least I do. I hold a lot of emotion in my gut.
And what I started to really notice when I became
what I shouldn't become more aware of the idea that we
we can hold and press these emotions in our body and even these
experiences can get stuck in our body. What I started really noticing is when
I was still working in Corporate America. Is that I would have a stressful day
And by the end of the day, my stomach would be so bloated.
From
Lorilee Binstock 00:32:09
Mm-mm
Mandy Harvey 00:32:10
stress and emotion of, like, how... Like, again, that perfection
archive, I wanted to be perfect at my job.
And so I pushed myself and would take on more than I should never said no.
And worked long hours and
you know, tried to be this wonder woman who had the job and the career and
kids and, you know, just was killing it all places, but I
mate meant I held a lot of stress. And by the end of the day,
it would look like I was five months pregnant. My stomach would be
So so bloated
with emotion. I'd have to lay down in my bathroom and just like,
train slowly
you know, breathe and start to
you know, reconnect to my body again. And that was really the moment
I was like, oh my gosh. I'm holding so much stress.
In my body, but it not just the stress from the work.
It's it's the stress of here.
Of being chronically stressed, you know, from the moment.
Have was a child.
Lorilee Binstock 00:33:16
So how do... How did you heal or or work?
Mandy Harvey 00:33:18
Mhmm.
Lorilee Binstock 00:33:20
Under Ibm.
Mandy Harvey 00:33:21
Yeah.
In years, it's been a it's spinach a journey age like, with healing,
healing from my past, but it started with
it started with a semantic experiencing really
helping me understand the language of my nervous
in the language. Like, I did... I spent a lot of time really assessing
how my body felt in certain in different
experiences and around different people so that I could just start to understand
when I feel like I can't say no, my body feels this
play when I feel relaxed, my body feels this way.
So I became sort become this detective of, like,
the language of my nervous, how it was
interacting with my environment how was trying to cut
my attention. And
I started to work on healing those parts
within me using if and using thematic experiencing.
Lorilee Binstock 00:34:23
Mhmm.
Mandy Harvey 00:34:25
Healing those parts that help the pain in the wounds.
And working on integrating them back into my
whole body. And then I started working with a functional practitioner.
To care for the physical
aspects of that,
of that stress, which was my ibs.
I worked on
changing my diet, and my diet has changed
over the years, and I think there is no one size that's all for anybody
that's what I've learned through my own nutritional education as well in my own
experiences. You know, when I first started then, I was eating paleo, but
today, I don't eat paleo modified
form of it. But I just took out
just like... Just like with emotion, I would
I would cope with my
emotional swings in my stressful days with eating.
I was an emotional eater, and I would eat
the sugar and the carbs and
the treats and all the scenes. And when I started working on that,
it really started to shift the diet that I was able to maintain
that was helpful in healing for my body.
So I worked on that part that emotionally eater her her a lot.
And at first, I just you know, when I would feel stressed and wanna
eat, like, pink, waffles and syrup was the thing that I wanted to eat every day when I was
stressed.
So there would be moments where I'd wanna eat that, and I would let myself
eat it, but I'd invite that part that emotional either part in with me.
To join me. And I would, you know, just have this, like, internal dialogue with
part
and I listened to her about how stressed she was. And I learned that
I was a teenager, and I lost my mom
and went through all of that. That's really when that part showed up.
That's really when food became a
coping mechanism I became something that issues my myself.
Lorilee Binstock 00:36:29
Did it feel like it was a part that you could control a lot more?
Than anything else.
Mandy Harvey 00:36:35
When I started... Yeah. I mean, I I feel like
that part. Well, that purpose felt uncontrollable at first.
You know, when I was going through the emotional swings, I felt like that part
took over my life. You know, and I would just rav
anything and everything. And once I felt better then it felt like, I had more clarity and I could
live my life. But as I started to work on healing them,
card.
I felt like I had more control of the
situation. So, you know,
couple weeks or months into working with that part when I would get stressed
I'd noticed the need or desire to twenty emotionally eat.
And then I could place my hand on my heart, which is I always felt her in my chest.
Lorilee Binstock 00:37:21
Mhmm.
Mandy Harvey 00:37:22
I was... When I felt stressed and wanted to emotionally eat, my chest would feel
tight. So I placed my hand there and I tell, hey, honey. I know it were really strong.
Right now. Like, I get it. I know why you wanna emotionally heat.
But I also know that doesn't make us feel any better.
So let's go sit outside and watch the sunset or put our feet in the grass.
And that part really liked
Lorilee Binstock 00:37:45
Wow.
Mandy Harvey 00:37:45
as an alternative to eating. So I
switched out the
more healthy way of coping with my
stressful and stress and emotions.
And the more that I did that, the more that I stuck with that, when I changed my diet,
to accommodate the healing of my gut.
I was able to stick with it even during time of
stress because I had really done the work to
to heal that part to build a relationship with that part.
Major you.
Lorilee Binstock 00:38:18
Wow. That that's incredible. That's a great. I'd love internal family systems hair.
Mandy Harvey 00:38:24
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:38:23
In understanding your part.
But that that is that is a very beautiful way to look. I'm, like
seeing their thinking like yeah that that that that's that should be healed too.
That should be taken care of you.
Mandy Harvey 00:38:35
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:38:35
Well, will you
have a pro we have several programs. Right? For for
people who want to heal
themselves kind of
I I'm kind of. I'm curious to know
what are
what is what comes with these programs? What is it that you do?
From start to finish.
Mandy Harvey 00:38:57
Yeah. Absolutely.
I have
I have digital courses. I
have healing sessions. I have three month long. It
experiences. I even do hiking and healing.
Journeys, but the online courses is
I have a couple of them. There's is one about Burnout,
and learning how to rewire your body and get
your life back that you can start to enjoy it again.
And I have another one that's called
which is all about aligning to the success that you want to see in your life.
These are online courses that they come with
video training sessions for me. They come with workbook.
They come with audio meditations. They come with Thematic
experiencing practices. But these ones are more self obtained.
Lorilee Binstock 00:39:52
Mhmm.
Mandy Harvey 00:39:54
So that you can take your time going through them.
And, you know,
really anger into experiencing the content within them.
The anchored and success program is thirty days if you were to do a little bit every day.
So that's, like, thirty minutes a day where you're listening or watching a video.
Or listening to an audio, there might be some activity where you start to assess.
Your life in a variety of ways.
You would then have practices, like,
emotional nutrition recommendations,
mindful types of things, thematic experiencing, types of things,
ceiling trauma, you know, regulating emotions, nervous
regulation. All of my courses have like kind of
a mesh, if you will of all of those types topics.
This is a LIVE replay of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast which aired Wednesday, April 12th, 2023 at 1130am ET on Fireside Chat.
Today's guest is Andrew Daniel, Author of "Awaken to Your True Self" and Director of the Center for Cinesomatic Development.
Lorilee Binstock 00:00:50
Welcome. I'm Lorilee Binstock, and this is a trauma survivor Thrivers Podcast.
Thank you so much for joining me live on Fireside Chat, where you can be a part of conversation as my virtual audience. I am your host, Lorilee Binstock.
Everyone has an opportunity to ask me or our guest questions by requesting hop on stage or sending a message in the chat box, I will try to get to you, but I do ask that everyone be respectful.
Today's guest is Andrew Daniel, author of the bestselling book, awaken to your true self,
the founder of Cinesomatics and director at the center for Cinesomatic Development.
Daniel, thank you so much for joining me today.
Andrew Daniel 00:01:48
Thank you for having me.
Lorilee Binstock 00:01:50
Well, you know, I was really intrigued. I you know, I've heard of, you know, somatic experiencing, which actually I really just discovered that in twenty twenty when I went into residential
treatment.
But when I heard about you, I heard I I I learned this new thing, at least in my mind, synosomatic therapy. Could you actually tell me a little bit about that?
Andrew Daniel 00:02:12
Yeah. It it is it is very cutting edge stuff.
Basically, cinematics
let's just start with the word. So
it comes from two words,
cinema
and somatics.
So cinema somatics. So the first part is Sinesh. So in this therapy, in this it's pretty much an entire transformational
approach.
We use video.
And so we use video and movement,
and then the somatic part, the body. So we use video and movement
to watch the way people show up in their body.
And then we play that video back of them moving in their body.
And then
myself or other people in the group will give feedback about all of the unconscious,
the subconscious
patterns,
mythologies,
archetypes
that are symbolically
coming through the body. And
not only is it a feedback from the participants or myself,
but they get to see it for themselves in their own body on the video replay.
So it's a very potent feedback loop that helps people see all of the
hidden
traumas or stories or blocks
and even shadow material that's holding them back in their life.
Lorilee Binstock 00:03:36
That's really fascinating because, you know, we
do these things. We we fiddle our hands when we we get nervous. We, you know, we even sweat.
Andrew Daniel 00:03:43
Yes.
Lorilee Binstock 00:03:46
We do so many different things
based on
the things we learn growing up that kind of make us feel safer, I guess, these coping mechanisms.
And I I and I that that is that is really fascinating to me because I'm assuming most people don't know what, like, their trick ticks or whatever are.
How did you actually discover this as a type of therapy?
Andrew Daniel 00:04:15
So it's about twofold. One, I mean, on my journey of my own traumas and growing up and everything
led me
to actually a lot of
alternative
and holistic healing methods.
We didn't have
a lot of big medical insurance. We weren't into any of the pharmaceuticals,
or my parents took me to, I think, a psychologist once
But very gratefully,
I ended up
through my own self help, self
improvement journey,
came across all of these different methods. There was neuro linguistic programming. There was tapping EFT. There was acupuncture. There was hypnosis.
There was
all of these things that were actually pretty helpful for me.
And I actually got certified in different immunotherapies
and and different stuff.
And for a while, it it worked very well, and it and exposed me to whole new
world of
well, a whole new world, really.
Because because not only was it just therapy, everything in my life was changing, it was like, oh my gosh. It's not because I don't know the technique. It's because I got all this junk and stuff inside. I mean, that's getting in the way.
Lorilee Binstock 00:05:32
Mhmm.
Andrew Daniel 00:05:32
And so that set me on a healing journey for for the past fifteen years.
And, eventually, I reached a a Plato. I I was homeless twice, even after being published. My software company did very well, and then it just stopped.
And I was wondering how and why that after
all these successes
and learning all of these spiritual
and even practical
truths and wisdoms,
I was still stuck.
There were still
many things in my life that weren't working.
And so I came across work by a a late mentor of mine who was pioneering
some of this
video and movement work. And so I learned a lot through him,
and that really exposed me to this world of
symbolic
somatic,
all this
un
not not invisible, but invisible
to many of us,
Lorilee Binstock 00:06:35
Mhmm.
Andrew Daniel 00:06:36
information about ourselves in our body. And then so I studied under him for a few years until he passed. And then I took everything that I learned and then started
expanding upon it. So I took that
movement and video process, and I added in the cinema aspects
We use very high end cinema equipment to get a lot of data.
And then through that practice,
in my own practice, one of the things I discovered
to solidify
Sonosomatics
as my own modality
we're we're the discovery of archetypes in the body. And what I mean by this is when I would watch
clients move, and I would say something like
Alright. Okay. So you're struggling with making money
in your life. Okay.
Lorilee Binstock 00:07:24
I wanna know more.
Andrew Daniel 00:07:25
Right? Is yeah. Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:07:27
This is me.
Andrew Daniel 00:07:27
So
Yeah. So you're struggling with money in your life. Okay. Well, show me through the body
your relationship with money. What is making money look look like to you? Not don't tell me about it. Show me show me in the body. Alright. What is spending money look like?
Oh, what does having money look like? Oh, okay.
And then what I started to find is that
what people said
or thought or had an image of in their mind
didn't
always match
the way that their body felt. So it's all about the feeling, what the body feels like as it's moving.
It's not a mental,
logical analysis. We're dealing with symbolism. We're dealing with the realm of the unconscious. It's not logical and linear.
It is symbolic, metaphorical, allegorical.
And so I started to see, oh, this person, I say, show me making money.
And it takes them two minutes to start moving.
When you're standing in front of somebody on camera for two minutes,
That that for many people is like an eternity.
Lorilee Binstock 00:08:39
Mhmm.
Andrew Daniel 00:08:39
And, also, in our own life,
If you scale that out, well, what does that mean about somebody? What does it mean about someone's relationship with making money?
If it takes them two minutes
to even start moving, where most people who are functional in it move immediately.
They'll move it in in about one or two seconds.
And so I started to notice that there were these correlations.
And then I would watch some of these people,
and I would say, alright, show me something like giving.
And then they would do something where they they would take their hands and pull it into themselves.
The the direction would be towards them, and I'm like, wait a minute.
Giving
giving objectively
should go outwards.
And so then I would say, alright. Well, what's your relationship with receiving and giving in your life? And they're like, oh, I struggle with this. And so I I started to
very, very quickly notice the correlations
between
the way that somebody represented these archetypes in their body and the actual practical practical results they were getting in their life. And then as we would begin to explore it, we would start uncovering all of this trauma. We would start uncovering all of these limitations and and
suppressed emotions. And then as we would move through those
emotions and those stories,
their movements would begin to shift, and then they would start embodying more functional archetypes
And then, you know, weeks later, they would get a raise or they they would have a gift or things in their real life actually shifted from the stuff we were doing in their body. So this was,
Lorilee Binstock 00:10:12
No.
Andrew Daniel 00:10:21
you know, many years of discovery and learning, and not only
working with other clients, but my own journey. I had to go through all of this process myself first before I could even see it in other people. And so that's a long story
to a short answer,
semi short as it could be.
Lorilee Binstock 00:10:42
I I love it. I I think that's that's fascinating.
You you develop this through your own observation
and
built upon that. How long does it take
to to do this type of therapy, to observe someone, to analyze,
their archetypes
and
and and really discover all of this.
Andrew Daniel 00:11:05
I can sit with somebody and in seconds know more about them than closest people to them in their life.
Yeah. It's it's incredibly fast.
But the reason it's fast a is because this is this is my job. I I've I've been I've been doing this.
Lorilee Binstock 00:11:22
No.
Andrew Daniel 00:11:23
But b, is that it is that it bypasses
the the mind. It bypasses the heady
analysis.
And so I skip. I skip all the body language I skip all of the
conscious
words that people are using, and I go below that. I go to the feeling underneath stuff.
So you can imagine
I'm sure you and everyone has has had this experience
where they meet somebody
And everything they're saying, it seems nice and friendly and okay,
but you just get this feeling like you don't trust them.
Lorilee Binstock 00:12:00
Mhmm.
Right.
Andrew Daniel 00:12:03
Well, in this work, I've actually figured out what those specific things are,
why
we get that hunch, why we get that gut feeling. And through the video and the movement, I can actually point it out and tell you why and show it to you on video.
Lorilee Binstock 00:12:19
Wow. Yeah. I mean, as someone and and you did mention you've experienced trauma in your life,
most people who have experienced trauma
Andrew Daniel 00:12:28
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:12:28
our empaths and can and and can read people
pretty well because they're used to reading the room to figure out if they're they're safe.
But this is I mean, this is in incredible
stuff.
Andrew Daniel 00:12:42
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:12:44
And how long have have you been doing this cinematic. How long has this been you said it's been
kind of in the works for about the last fifteen years.
Andrew Daniel 00:12:54
So fifteen years of of my journey of
Lorilee Binstock 00:12:56
Oh, your attorney. Yeah.
Andrew Daniel 00:12:57
yeah. Of my journey.
And so there's there's an aspect of that. Now my mentor,
he kind of pioneered just as the the the technology has only been around for a couple
decades I mean, like, two decades really
to to even be able to record this stuff. So he initially pioneered
it on, like, tapes
Ashley, like, real tapes
back in the day. And then so when I worked with him and he passed, I kind of picked up those reins
And it took me
to get from that point of that foundation
to to me turning it into actual cinematics
and the places I've taken it. It's been about
five to seven years.
Lorilee Binstock 00:13:46
That's great.
I mean, I feel like,
you know, the difference
in what I'm learning because, you know, I I didn't even know about any about somatic experiencing.
Which obviously we we we now
know, and and most people who've dealt with trauma is that you know,
we hold it in our body,
Andrew Daniel 00:14:07
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:14:07
and like you were saying, you know, somatic means the body. And
I feel like we need more modalities
that really
focus on healing
what's underneath
the things that you you can recognize
because, you know, what we've been doing for so long has been masking
all of the trauma, all of the symptoms. You know? And and and
Andrew Daniel 00:14:32
Yeah. The symptoms. Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:14:35
we now know it. That's not working.
Andrew Daniel 00:14:37
Right.
Lorilee Binstock 00:14:38
That's that's not working at all.
So I think this this synerosomatic therapy is incredible
work. So how do you have to be where are you located? Do people have to go to you? Is this something that can be done over
video? Like, Zoom. I don't know if Zoom's you probably would have higher tech stuff than that if that were the case. But
how are people able to experience this therapy?
Andrew Daniel 00:15:07
Yeah. It's both. So we basically have two two grades of the therapy. The professional grade is stuff where we can do it online virtually, so we literally do use Zoom.
And so I'll work with a client or we have a group workshop. We actually have a group workshop this weekend,
and people will come in on the Zoom call. And then I will be facilitating,
and then we'll have everybody move. They have privacy and space to move.
And on my end, I use my technology to record everybody moving or the client,
and then also as well certain technology to play it back over Zoom, and then give them feedback. And then the whole thing is being recorded as a replay, which has another layer of feedback to it. So that's that's what I do most often because it's so much easier for people to to hop on a Zoom call than it is to fly out. But I do have people I do have people fly out. There's things where we can only
Lorilee Binstock 00:16:00
Right.
Andrew Daniel 00:16:04
do in person.
And so the second grade is the cinema grade where we actually have the
tens and tens of thousands of dollars of Hollywood
cinema grade equipment
where we're able to capture in very high resolution at very high speeds
a very particular
system that we have,
and that allows us to go into super high rates and super slow motions
to see all of the stuff that we normally would miss
just watching in real time. You can slow it down, play it back, because what happens in real time is that sometimes
these things were were manipulating other people. We're we're hoodwinking. We're we're seducing.
We're lying to ourselves and other people and sometimes not even knowing it. And so it's very off it's very easy to get pulled into someone's story. Right? Get pulled sucked into someone's manipulation,
Lorilee Binstock 00:16:51
Right.
Andrew Daniel 00:16:58
and no one know it. Well, with the video and the replay,
you can distance yourself from that and say, oh my gosh. Look at that. Oh, you're doing this. Oh, oh, this was happening. And so
Both of though that particular thing is helpful
in person and online.
But
having the in person stuff we have a specific diagnostic
that's called
a a slack line. So we actually have people walk on a slack line.
And we have various hands on techniques and stuff, as you know, with with trauma and a lot of people just don't get
haven't had touch. And there's there's a lot of stuff in the body
where
appropriate,
safe,
touch,
can, you know
you know, activate
stuff. I was just reading I was just watching a video of
Lorilee Binstock 00:17:50
Mhmm.
Andrew Daniel 00:17:50
somebody talking about
just babies sleeping in certain ways,
the pressure their body parts have on the bed
turns on certain circuits, you know, some nervous system stuff in the development of the baby. So there's so much stuff
that
the body does and holds,
and
the in person stuff allows us to do those things that we can't do virtually. But I have clients that I work with.
I've been working with for two years, and it's
ninety percent virtual.
Oftentimes, they'll come in for a few days. They'll fly in, and we'll do that stuff, which is like a supercharged
in a few day session. And then over the course of the next few weeks and months,
we help integrate and and go further with that stuff. So it it works both virtually and in person at very high levels.
Lorilee Binstock 00:18:44
That's great. Yeah. Yeah. You know, I
I I think there's a lot.
I mean, I know I I I do I I do internal family systems therapy, and I do this weekly with my therapist, and I do it over Zoom.
But there are things that, you know,
are really benefit doing it in person like you were saying, like, the bodywork. When when I was in trauma
therapy for residential treatment,
it was
you were you were given
body work each day, whether it be a massage,
Andrew Daniel 00:19:19
Oh, excellent.
Lorilee Binstock 00:19:19
And, yeah, it it they they I what is it when they move the
Andrew Daniel 00:19:24
Lemphatic,
Lorilee Binstock 00:19:25
yes. What is
Andrew Daniel 00:19:26
or fat, myofascial,
Lorilee Binstock 00:19:28
Yeah. They were so there was just a list of of their body work that they really wanted you to do
Andrew Daniel 00:19:31
Yeah.
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:19:36
along with the programming that they already had because it was just
Andrew Daniel 00:19:39
Oh, wow. You're
you're very lucky. That's very blessed. I mean, a lot of places don't know that.
Lorilee Binstock 00:19:43
I I was I I am
Yes. I am I'm very, very blessed because I feel that, you know you know, I
this this place is Sears Tucson in Arizona. I I could talk about them forever because they they worked on some really cutting edge stuff there, like, revisioning, which I I I still don't hear people talking about. But there are also, I think, one of the only clinics back in twenty twenty that was doing
ketamine treatments for
Andrew Daniel 00:20:09
Oh, okay.
Lorilee Binstock 00:20:10
so and I did know
neural feedback.
Andrew Daniel 00:20:14
Yep.
Lorilee Binstock 00:20:15
And, obviously, I feel like, sino sino
sino somatic therapy would be extremely helpful.
In in that in that kind of environment in a in a residential treatment center where there are a lot of people who are there and who are staying there and who has who can do this. So that's something definitely I think you to think about. But,
you know,
in talking about this, you know, I I Like I mentioned, I did inter I do internal family system therapy. And I I've mentioned briefly or I think you you've heard
my work with psychedelics. I I I've done
Andrew Daniel 00:20:48
Yes.
Lorilee Binstock 00:20:50
I mean, I've I really, really credit psychedelics.
To a lot of my transformation.
And you mentioned briefly
Andrew Daniel 00:20:58
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:21:01
about usage shamanism
and embodiment therapy
that your organization's actually pioneering, and I'm intrigued. I was like, I need to know more about this. Like, you you're really on on the frontier of all this cutting edge stuff, so I need to learn more.
Andrew Daniel 00:21:07
Yeah.
Yeah.
Yeah. So it's it this is so Cinematics
is a very specific
you know, let's just call it the the the method, the technique.
It's using the video and the movement.
Now there's other things I do with it as well, and so
One of the things is doing dream work. Another another thing is doing symbolism work, and we use ancient
imagery. Basically, use picture
symbols
as these archetypes.
And
so I basically have this three
three door approach.
We have the dream work, right, this unconscious symbolic realm. We have picture symbols, symbolic realm, and then we have the body,
symbolic realm, unconscious.
And so
dealing with all three of these,
what we're doing is not
a heady mental academic analysis.
What we're doing all of it is actually going into a
it's almost like a meditative
state.
And in this
sort of very still,
quiet,
connected place,
we go into
these symbols,
and we're not just doing it
Willie Nilly
or we're not just doing it on the surface,
we're really doing what's called chateau work.
And maybe some people have heard this term,
but it's really been,
I don't wanna say, appropriated, but it's been very watered down. You
know, real shadow work is going into the places
of our
psyche
that we have spent decades of our life not ever wanting to go. It's going into the places
of ourselves that we hate, that we despise, that we feel guilty about, that we judge, that we shun, that we literally wanna take pills or take a knife and cut it off and get it off of us and and completely change it or
Lorilee Binstock 00:23:21
Mhmm.
Andrew Daniel 00:23:25
just, you know, disown it.
And part of this work is looking at those things, and not only looking at them, but reintegrating
Lorilee Binstock 00:23:31
Yeah.
Andrew Daniel 00:23:34
them, letting go of the judgments, letting go of the suppression
stopping the suppression.
And then this, of course, encounters all of the trauma. And it it encounters
the stories in our life that say,
Okay. This thing is bad about me. We can't look at that or deal with that. And then saying, well,
Maybe we've got that wrong all along. Maybe
that was just something we did to protect ourselves
and cope with something that was horrendous in the moment that we didn't know anything else to do about.
Lorilee Binstock 00:24:06
Mhmm.
Andrew Daniel 00:24:08
And now as adults in a safe place, we can allow ourselves to go there and to heal that.
And so
we do this
with the movement. We do it with the dreams. We do it with the symbolism work.
And it
is very akin to
the the the psychedelic journey.
Lorilee Binstock 00:24:31
Mhmm. Yeah.
Andrew Daniel 00:24:32
But conscious.
So one of the things with the entheogens and the psychedelics
is is a twofold
benefit, but also a limit.
And that's the fact that it kinda shows you everything. It kind of forces you. Right? It takes you where it's gonna take you.
Lorilee Binstock 00:24:47
Mhmm.
Andrew Daniel 00:24:50
And you can surrender
or you can fight it.
And
and so for a lot of people, it's really beneficial because most people
Lorilee Binstock 00:24:57
Right.
Andrew Daniel 00:24:59
aren't willing to go to these places themselves.
Lorilee Binstock 00:25:03
That's very true.
Andrew Daniel 00:25:05
Yeah. Yes. So it's it's incredibly beneficial because of that. Now
the
the limitation of that
is are two things. One,
is that you're you're at choice by going in,
but
the choices throughout of it
you know, like we said, it it more of takes you there. So it's less of a conscious will. Now you our response because you're the one that decided to do it and you're letting go and allowing it to do it. So you're you're still at choice,
but it's a different kind of choice than showing up in your conscious awareness
making those individual choices.
The second thing is the integration.
Is that on a lot of these experiences, you're in this
very altered state. You're in and out of consciousness, maybe sometimes.
Things are really symbolic.
And depending on your guide, depending on the container, depending on the post integration,
you can really benefit from it, or you could kind of go a little crazy
you know, people have had, you know, psychedelic experiences where they can't ground it back into reality. You know, they're they're their ego is blown and, you know, all of this stuff.
Lorilee Binstock 00:26:23
Mhmm.
Andrew Daniel 00:26:24
And so
I I still you know, I think it's an amazing thing. However,
in my work,
we're doing that same level of
exploring
these symbolic, unconscious
things that you would in psychedelics,
but we're doing it loosely. We're doing it consciously.
So now there's parks and downsides to this. The parks are
you're integrating everything as you go, and you're getting the wisdom.
The wisdom is not only in your subconscious, but now it's in your conscious.
Right? You're consciously
aware in real time of what everything is teaching you, what all of these symbols are teaching you. So the integration is very rapid in real time. It doesn't necessarily take, you know, weeks or months, you know, to journal and talk and figure it out. It's happening in real time.
The second benefit with that is that you're at choice the entire way. And so you're the one that's empowered the entire time, and you're the one
that's choosing to go there or not. Now this is also the downside.
The downside
is that it requires your choice,
and a lot of people
don't necessarily wanna look at this stuff. And so their ego defenses come up. And all of these strategies to hide out and run away,
get engaged.
And the second kind of downside ish, but just you know,
I guess we could call it a downside, is that it's very confronting.
Lorilee Binstock 00:28:00
Yes.
Andrew Daniel 00:28:00
It's extremely
confronting. So the specific way that I use cinematics in this lucid Shamanism work
is advanced. It is it is not a
beginner,
a process. It's not for someone that just walks off off the street.
You do have to have a very solid foundation
in in many areas of your life.
Because what happens is when we start doing this work, and I say, alright. Show me these archetypes. Start moving in your body. And I'm giving you feedback.
What I'm doing is reflecting back to you. So this is the shaman part of it. Where a shaman, you could say, one definition of a shaman,
is someone who
walks the line walks between the two worlds
of the symbolic
and unconscious
with
the literal
waking state. Right? The waking and sleep realms. The shaman is navigating through.
And so what I'm doing in this work is the same thing,
just not with any substances.
So we're literally
helping people integrate these these subconscious,
symbolic
stories, and data, and archetypes,
and making them conscious.
And so in that process, what I'm doing as the facilitator
is not giving advice. I'm not analyzing it. I'm not
saying it's right or wrong or good or bad or what they should do or shouldn't do or anything.
All I'm doing
is being a still pawn.
A clean mirror and reflecting
back the truth of what I see.
And the video does that even better than me. Now this is this is incredibly healing, and it's an incredibly powerful process that changes people's lives.
The thing with it, though, is that I'm just reflecting back what with what I see. And so there's an AA phrase that that's basically the truth will set you free. But first, it'll piss you off.
Lorilee Binstock 00:30:03
Yep.
Andrew Daniel 00:30:04
And this is often what we encounter, not with everybody, but when I'm when you're when you go to a
a session,
and they're saying
your This behavior you're doing here is narcissistic.
You're manipulating.
You're seducing.
You're
completely out of relationship with your masculine or feminine.
Oh,
you are actually monitoring yourself
for the past forty years when you thought you were just being nice.
And it's not my opinion. They see the proof
in the video of themselves doing it.
And so it can be a very, very confronting process. And it's only for people that are ready for it. But the people that are ready to see that,
their entire lives change. Everything changes. Their nervous system gets rewired.
The the relationship
shift.
They add I have clients that add zeros to their income.
All of these things happen because you you finally get to know the truth, and you can't get to where you wanna go if you don't know where you're at. And so this work helps with both.
Lorilee Binstock 00:31:14
That is incredible because, you know, you know, I'm
I'm
absolutely it's like
advocate for psychedelics, but I I do understand that psychedelics is not for everyone.
It I mean,
being okay with traveling to the darkest parts of your soul is
it's
it's heavy. It's heavy.
Andrew Daniel 00:31:34
Yeah. This. Yeah. Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:31:35
And
and I and like you were saying, you know,
in the case of
psychedelics,
you don't really have a choice of coming out of it until it's over.
Andrew Daniel 00:31:47
Right.
Lorilee Binstock 00:31:48
And and
what you're what you're, you know,
sharing with loosen loosen Shamanism. I feel that
in this this body of therapy,
is that there there is this option for those people who are, like, I am not touching psychedelics because that is just I I I want more control control than that, then there's this this option,
Andrew Daniel 00:32:08
Right. Right.
Lorilee Binstock 00:32:11
which I think is phenomenal.
I I you know,
do you ever have anyone who's like, I don't even wanna watch what I was doing. I have I have trouble just looking at myself
in videos and and and actually trying to analyze. Is is there anyone who ever is just, like,
they do it, and then they're just, like, I can't do this anymore.
Andrew Daniel 00:32:32
Well,
a lot of people don't like looking at their cells. And you wanna know the reason why.
What I realized
well, do you wanna know?
Lorilee Binstock 00:32:43
I do wanna know. Yes.
Andrew Daniel 00:32:44
Yes. Okay.
So,
you know, we we maybe ourselves. We've done this ourselves. I certainly didn't like seeing myself in photos or videos or
anything.
And I I know plenty of people that don't. Well,
Lorilee Binstock 00:32:57
Mhmm.
Andrew Daniel 00:33:00
One of the biggest reasons why is because at some level, we are seeing our shadow.
We look at ourselves. Well, what what we start doing judging? Well, that's a shadow aspect. You know, we're seeing all of these things we don't like about ourselves. That's why we don't wanna look at it. But then there's also a deeper level. Then there's also this understanding that we don't like ourselves. And then we're judging ourselves, and we don't wanna feel like we're judging ourselves. And so there's this whole stack of stuff that happens
for most people instantaneously.
And so they're just like, I I don't even I don't even wanna look.
Lorilee Binstock 00:33:38
Yes.
Andrew Daniel 00:33:38
Now
the thing is
those people
are it's gonna be twofold. They're gonna have a really hard time with this work, but it'd also be the best thing they've ever done. Which is usually the case. Right? It's like the thing you're terrified of doing the most,
Lorilee Binstock 00:33:50
Mhmm.
Andrew Daniel 00:33:54
knowing that it's the safe, you know, not a reckless thing. But the thing you're avoiding the most
as I say in my book, is probably the thing that's gonna move you forward the quickest.
Lorilee Binstock 00:34:04
Yep.
Andrew Daniel 00:34:05
And so in this work, yeah, People come in. They'll have a session. They're like, oh, yeah. I like embodiment. Oh, shadow work. This is fun. You know? And then I basically
tell them their deepest darkest secrets that nobody else knows,
and,
you know, they they're like, you know, buy.
So it does happen,
but then I also have clients who
do one session, and then they work with me for two years. You know, they keep renewing, not because it doesn't work, but because every single aspect of their life works better and better and better and better. And so after the there's an an initial period of kind of the shock and, like, confirm confrontation
and, like, oh my god.
And then what happens is you you realize that all we're doing is seeing
ourselves in the world more accurately.
It's not good and bad, right or wrong, should or shouldn't judgment of this or judgment of that.
What we're doing
is not telling better stories. It's not spinning things positive.
It's just reporting things as is as they are.
Not inflating it. But also not deflating it. And so what happens is that people that go through this process,
they
They fall in love with themselves.
They can see themselves.
They can see the shadow, but they can also see the light. And they're not at the effect of it anymore. They say, you know what? Yeah, that is a shadow effect aspect of me. I do have this narcissistic thing. I do have the selfishness when I do that.
And that's okay. I'm I'm at peace with it because I know I'm at choice, and I'm not doing that anymore.
I don't do like, I don't do those things anymore.
But I still recognize that part of myself.
And so going into these archetypes, we realized that
it's not about being one perfect thing. It's about
having full access to the entire range
of
humanity of all of this stuff.
And we see this in the movements. People will move, and
How they move in their bodies is how they move through their life. The foundational principle of this is how you do one thing is how you do everything.
The way you move in your body, the way you show up on the call, the way you look at yourself on video
is how you're doing that in your life. It's how you see yourself in in in your day to day life. It's how you move through the world. It's how you see everyone else in the world around you. It's your relationship
to life.
And
through this process,
we transformed those relationships.
We we help people feel safe in their bodies again. We help people,
you know, stop judging themselves and everything.
We get people to remove the shackles
and the walls and the barriers
and open up to love.
And become vulnerable, and that vulnerability leads to intimacy,
let people in again, and let ourselves out into the world to be fully expressed.
Without these plateaus, without these stories of limitations of I should or shouldn't I can't be or I'm not this or I'm not enough or I'm not lovable or there's something wrong with me. You know, we're not fixing.
We're stopping.
And that's one of the biggest difference too in this work is that it's not It's not
personal development, which I also called persona
development.
We're not helping people build a better image.
We're helping people stop
everything. We're helping people subtract all of the stuff that isn't really who they are.
And through that process, we get closer and closer
to their true self. Whereas if you start fixing and adding,
all of that layers on top and actually takes you further from your true self.
Lorilee Binstock 00:38:06
Yeah.
It you know, it's funny when you were talking about why
we don't like to watch videos of ourselves. It's
I actually had therapy yesterday. And, you know, I have I have an eight year old daughter. She's beautiful. She's smart. She's
she's amazing.
But, you know, we've been
going at it a lot recently,
and
And you know, I realized in my therapy session because there was a part of me
that I disliked about myself
Andrew Daniel 00:38:38
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:38:38
and how I handle things, and she is was my reflection
Andrew Daniel 00:38:39
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:38:44
of that.
And so, you know, in
in working through that, I had to get a better understanding of what did that part of me need
when I was behaving the way that she was behaving when I was younger.
And and that was
and I think that
in thinking about that,
today,
it's it's I just wanted to be heard, and that's all she wants to be. She just wants to be heard. And so, yes, I'm you know, it's it's it's
Andrew Daniel 00:39:11
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:39:12
not
changing
who you are. It's kinda I feel like it's it's having a better understanding of why
and then just going kinda going from there.
So and and and when you were talking about transformation, it's like
people who are scared of those bad trips,
those those those people who actually just dive headfirst into those really bad experiences,
those bad trips, those darkest part the darkest parts of, you know, their souls. That I feel like that is when this the transformation
really takes place. Because that those are the things that have been holding them back.
Andrew Daniel 00:39:44
Yes.
Joseph Campbell's Joseph Campbell's Yeah. He's a great quote.
Lorilee Binstock 00:39:50
Is there
go.
Andrew Daniel 00:39:54
He's Joseph Campbell says, the cave you fear to enter holds the treasure you seek.
And that's
Lorilee Binstock 00:40:02
That couldn't be more true.
Andrew Daniel 00:40:02
and yeah. And that's that's what we're talking about. Yep.
Lorilee Binstock 00:40:06
Yeah. And and it's so hard because I know that, you know, there are people out there who
Andrew Daniel 00:40:10
It is.
Lorilee Binstock 00:40:11
because that that that are careful. And sometimes there are people who don't even know that they're like, I don't believe that there's any treasure there. You know, there's no personal develop you know, there's no growth there. You know? Because even five years ago, I'm like, this is who I am. This is, you know, this is this is this is it. There's no there's no such thing as post traumatic growth or anything like that. I just
Andrew Daniel 00:40:18
Right. Yeah.
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:40:35
didn't believe it. And, you know,
five years later, I'm like, I don't even know who that was.
So there is there is a way, and
to transform.
Andrew Daniel 00:40:45
There's always a way. Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:40:46
Yes. Absolutely.
Andrea, is there anything that you would like to add?
Andrew Daniel 00:40:53
Oh, yeah. I got all sorts of stuff. What do you wanna know?
Lorilee Binstock 00:40:56
Oh, tell me. What so what are you doing what are you working on now? What is what?
What is it the
big thing that you would like this audience to know? These are people who, you know, are trauma survivors.
These are people who who feel that they have trauma that's lurking that they don't wanna face, what is it that you think they would need to know?
Andrew Daniel 00:41:19
Oh, jeez.
Well, it's a lot. I
Oh,
yeah. That's that's there's a a a lot in there.
I think I think the biggest thing is
And I talked about this in my book,
making
truth the most important thing.
And how that actually practically looks is
do you value
comfort or do you value the truth?
Do you value
playing safe and hiding out,
or do you value the truth?
Do you
value
suppressing
and avoiding,
or do you value knowing the truth?
And so if you can make the truth the most important
thing in your life and use that as your North Star, not happiness
because there's a lot of things
for our growth
that that makes our life incredible
that really aren't themselves
happy.
They lead to it, but the initial thing isn't.
Lorilee Binstock 00:42:29
Right.
Andrew Daniel 00:42:34
And so if you're orienting your life to comfort
and
false safety. Now safety is very important,
true safety,
but many of us have a full sense of safety.
You know, hiding out in our rooms and not going out into the world, isn't necessarily
real safety. Because, guess what happens? Well, you don't have a community.
You lose access to making money, and so you might not have a how you know, so there's all of these repercussions and consequences
for things that are ego,
would label and identify as
good positive stuff.
So if you can make the truth the most important thing,
beyond these, beyond your stories,
beyond any
victim mentality stories,
even if you were
a actual victim to something horrific,
it doesn't mean that you you have to keep telling the story
for the next forty years of your life and be a prisoner to it. And so if you can
align yourself to the truth,
and make that more important than any of these things.
You're going to have a
value.
You're going to stand for something greater than the trauma.
You're gonna stand for something greater than the abuse.
You're gonna stand for something greater than you're suffering.
And if you can begin
to live and make choices
from that place,
everything will begin to change. It may not necessarily be easy. In fact, it may be the hardest thing you've ever done. But I can promise
it will be the most rewarding.
Lorilee Binstock 00:44:22
Yes. It's it's being your authentic self. It's just
chipping away at all the stories that we've told ourselves, like you were saying, all these ideas that we were told
we needed to
be successful, I guess.
Andrew Daniel 00:44:38
Yeah. Be enough. Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:44:39
Yeah. Oh, well, you know, I I I absolutely
loved having you on today,
and I know that there's so much more that your organization is doing, and for anyone who would like
to learn more right there is the scrolling fortune cookie to
cinematic
dot org, and you can learn more about
Andrew and
absent and you can also check out his his book, awaken to your true self. There's so much there. So, Daniel, thank you so much for joining me today.
Andrew Daniel 00:45:14
Yeah. Thank you so much. I I do recommend if people are interested to check out
my book, awaken to your true self.
You have you do have to be willing to be confronted and stick with it, but tens of thousands of people have have benefited from it, and If any of this sounds interesting, that's a great,
great first step.
Lorilee Binstock 00:45:35
Amazing.
That was Andrew Daniel, author of the bestselling book, awakening to your true self and the founder of cinematics
and director at the center for cinematic development. For more information on Daniel and the center for cinematic development, like I said, you can just click on that scrolling fortune cookie. It will also be found in the show notes.
April's issue of authentic insiders out, authentic insighter to be found at traumasurviberthriver
dot com. That's traumasurviberthriver
dot com. If you haven't already, please subscribe to my email list to get authentic insighter
magazine in your inbox monthly.
Again, thank you so much for joining me today. Join me live next week, April twenty nine or April nineteenth, excuse me. When I speak with Mandy Harvey,
she will be discussing the connection between
trauma and chronic illness and how to solve it for good.
And you've been listening to a trauma survivor thriver's podcast on Fireside.
I'm Lorilee Binstock. Again, thank you for being a part of the conversation.
Take care.
This is a LIVE replay of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast which aired Wednesday, March 22nd, 2023 at 1130am ET on Fireside Chat.
Trigger Warning: This podcast contains discussions of sexual assault. Listen with care and if you are looking for resources, please visit, SASA28173.org
Lorilee Binstock 00:02:16
Welcome. I'm Lorilee Binstock and this is A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast.
Today's guest is Dayna Corcoran, founder of the Sisterhood Against Sexual Assault, a profit foundation supporting survivors, and families of sexual abuse. It was created to help victims of sexual violence by providing training learning and awareness of sexual assault.
Dana, thank you so much. For joining me today. I really do appreciate it.
Dayna Corcoran 00:03:24
Yes. Thank you so much for having.
Lorilee Binstock 00:03:26
Of course. Well, first of all, could you share a little bit about
your organization sister again, sexual assault?
Dayna Corcoran 00:03:34
Yeah. And we call South here in Black called, North Carolina, just the abbreviated version.
Lorilee Binstock 00:03:39
Mhmm.
Dayna Corcoran 00:03:40
It it's a newly formed five zero one non nonprofit organization.
That has a community centric mission to provide a safe healing space for victims and survivors to the sexual assault.
We carry out program to protect people from sexual assault remote awareness,
as a well, as to provide education in the support, and we
Just started the first week of January.
Lorilee Binstock 00:04:03
Oh, wow. So this is very soon.
Can you tell me
what
what made you guys want to start this organization?
Dayna Corcoran 00:04:12
Yes. Prior to January,
nobody knew about Salsa none of us ever
anticipated be becoming a group of
women or members of this group.
It was the...
Probably the fifth of January.
It was a Friday afternoon noon at four Pm. I was getting ready to leave town, and I got this phone call, and everybody that knows me know I never answered the phone.
Lorilee Binstock 00:04:35
Yeah
Dayna Corcoran 00:04:36
But it was it was like, one of my girlfriends here in Miller Community and West.
And it wasn't it was odd. She was calling me as opposed texting.
So
I am at the phone as I was running out the door, and she had said, Dana, I'm in the hospital. I'm in, Charlotte.
I don't know. I'm new to the area. I don't... You know, I don't know where to turn. I just need somebody to talk to and I need somebody to pray for me.
And from that, she told me her story that had happened to her the week prior. So it was just... Over the New Year eve holiday in the Dominican Republic.
Lorilee Binstock 00:05:13
Do, I I don't know she
feels comfortable with you sharing a little bit about our story.
Dayna Corcoran 00:05:17
Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:05:19
Would you be able to do that?
Dayna Corcoran 00:05:19
Yeah.
Absolutely.
I'm sharing an information with arabic victims approval.
She's also written out her story and she in the process of going through therapy and the she's... More comfortable. I know that she's gonna be her own advocate, and she will show be the platform that we speak on to talk to other victims and survivors of the sexual assault.
So she's on vacation with a friend in the Dominican Republic.
Justice her and her friend at an all inclusive resort, So we you know, we travel. We think those are safer players to go to.
Lorilee Binstock 00:05:53
Mhmm.
Dayna Corcoran 00:05:55
She
intends the nightly
organized functions. You fifteen being night the fun night,
and
it's still broad daylight on the day of her herself. She's at the...
At the restaurant the lounge bar area outside in I say that because in order her to piece her incident back together,
she had remembered that it was daylight.
The sun hasn't set yet, it was still early. She's enjoying a beverage,
Lorilee Binstock 00:06:18
Mhmm
Dayna Corcoran 00:06:24
and flash forward a few hours, she wakes up on the side of the road in the Dominican Republic.
So on her story,
video, Surveillance, and what she couldn't recall as time goes by,
she was having a drink.
So she is filmed being walked out of
the all resort,
put in a car
And
approximately four hours later, she was pushed from that moving car, landed on the
sidewalk, which woke her up to trauma from the from falling out of the car kind of woke her up.
Lorilee Binstock 00:06:59
Mhmm
Dayna Corcoran 00:06:59
She
realized she was laying in a pool of her own blood,
the it was right back to front of the resort that she was taken from.
The resort staff came out and took her to the local
you know, makeshift hop, they're not, like, our hospitals that we go to, but it was more like gay,
a makeshift,
hospital urgent care in the Dominican Republic
where
she realized she had been drug
kidnapped. Obviously, she was taken off the resort.
Lorilee Binstock 00:07:27
Mm-mm
Dayna Corcoran 00:07:29
And
then really imaginative attacked
with an object sexually attacked with an object. That created approximately a ten centimeter
gas internally,
Lorilee Binstock 00:07:40
Oh
Dayna Corcoran 00:07:41
which led to the need for
medical attention.
So she's getting to the medical attention in a... In... Which is great. I mean, their job was to keep her alive. They did that,
but it was in a
non discreet room where the
the... The... You the surgeons that were helping her were in
t shirt because That were inside out. There was no glove, but there was no...
It was stupid obvious that wasn't a professional hospital.
Lorilee Binstock 00:08:06
Oh, goodness.
Dayna Corcoran 00:08:10
She
immediately received
live transfusion
because of the... She had lost so many,
so much of her own blood that she immediately received the blood... And she was allergic to it right away. Immediately got a rash.
Lorilee Binstock 00:08:22
Mhmm.
Dayna Corcoran 00:08:23
Something's wrong with is the the way it, you know, worked with her body or something was wrong with the blood to begin with, but she needed it.
They su her her. They gave her the blood. They
they... You know, they antibiotics the everything that she needed.
But as she was going along, they kept saying, well, if you want this done, you have to pay a thousand dollars you want this and I need to pay a thousand dollars?
And it they had... The... The the financial end of it was... This is why I'm saying all of this is because
the only time they had brought an interpreter
that she could understand what was happening to her. It was
along with the police department there. It was to assigned to her that if she didn't pay this bill in debit or cash or Venmo or, you know, money in hand,
Lorilee Binstock 00:09:09
Mhmm.
Dayna Corcoran 00:09:09
she would be taken directly from the hospital to the police department and held,
Meaning they wouldn't let her leave unless she had paid this money. So as an aftermath,
you think, okay, The assault led to the need for medical attention. So this orchestrated
event
from the bartender at the of the resort,
who she... Who who's was the only person that was near her drink ties her.
Would have
put something in her drink, led to somebody walking her out, led to the sexual assault
Lorilee Binstock 00:09:41
Mhmm.
Dayna Corcoran 00:09:41
that led the need for
this massive medical attention.
And she
had a horrific deal. While she was at this medical facility. She
she's screaming She's gonna a place that nobody speaks English and and the
physician just kept telling her.
Don't scream are women here and don't do that. Don't don't act, like that don't do that.
And she said, I just wanna go, I wanna go home and they said you need to call your family
Lorilee Binstock 00:10:04
Oh my gosh.
Dayna Corcoran 00:10:08
and tell them where all your
you know, life documents are where your will is, where you because you are not going to survive this.
So they gave her a phone, They let her call her teenage daughter from a different country,
Lorilee Binstock 00:10:20
Oh my goodness.
Dayna Corcoran 00:10:21
which involved pin.
You know, oh my mom. Her. She's in this... And and and then everybody started sending money.
To pay for the medical
bill it doesn't get her physically out of the country.
So she's she told them. I wanna leave. I'm leaving
Lorilee Binstock 00:10:34
Wow.
Dayna Corcoran 00:10:37
- You're going into kidney failure. If you leave, you will not make the the flight home.
She leaves. She get. Like she paid the big thousand dollars bill. She, you know, borrowed from her son was college fine, She brought from her friend.
She brought she exhausted her
retirement. And and all the way that she had access. You she's a single mother of multiple children.
She did it, but she could to survive. To get out of that country who obviously set her up to this.
So she on that she could get on a plane on the way home with Charlotte.
She
have got elephant titus ever her leg in her face.
She was going into kidney failure. She arrived at the Charlotte Hospital,
And that evening
had a minor
heart attack in her sleep due to the strap.
And when they did the exam on her
the doctor starts pulling out this god.
God. God. They had packed term
of
something to stopped of bleeding, but you could get attention a bacteria infection.
Lorilee Binstock 00:11:39
Oh,
Dayna Corcoran 00:11:40
The doctor hearing said they did not intend for you to survive that.
Lorilee Binstock 00:11:44
Wow.
Dayna Corcoran 00:11:45
While she was there, she contacted the police department. She tried to file a complaint. She complained to the
the resort
it didn't go anywhere In until the the was getting on the claim, the
you have the
Dominican Republic police contacted her and the said. Your your report on file that the right department needs to be filed with the sexual
assault department, and you have to do that in person. And course, she said, not a chance I'm getting on the plane that I'm going home.
Lorilee Binstock 00:12:14
Right.
Dayna Corcoran 00:12:15
So this is... She she called me that Friday and just said I need prayers and she started crying. And you... This woman was new to our neighborhood.
Lorilee Binstock 00:12:21
Mhmm
Dayna Corcoran 00:12:24
She relocated her family in her job.
She
I had met her and passion at a
neighborhood the phone party. We and she moved into the ladies house and we were really good friends like, it was a very
superficial relationship
because it was very new and because it'd be pivot of the different ages where we're doing a different
behalf,
and she didn't know that I have a history with
that I'm a federal agent, and I work for home security
which is separate, obviously, from Nasa, but that I have a history of the devastating sex time. So like, she as got led her to call me and act in asked just for
Lorilee Binstock 00:12:59
Mhmm
Dayna Corcoran 00:13:04
support and gotten support and prayers.
Meanwhile,
being the picture that I am, that information came in, and I thought, okay. Not the hospital she saved
now that's she's in Char, what can we do
now to help her?
So
other than the Funko group, we actually did the
the zombies that we did mom
flash over How we and that how I had met her the few weeks before Halloween and I called all this the mom that I said, and the... Again, it is made up of people that we see at functions and
Lorilee Binstock 00:13:30
Mhmm.
Dayna Corcoran 00:13:41
not everyday life and we met the group, and we said, we are going to
work together to raise the funds to at least pay back
you know, what happened to her, she shouldn't have to pay for
Lorilee Binstock 00:13:53
Mhmm.
Dayna Corcoran 00:13:55
sexual assault
or the
the aftermath.
Herself. I mean, it was her that was sexually assaulted It was... It... You know, that should be constantly forever we living being victim and victim.
Lorilee Binstock 00:14:01
Right.
Dayna Corcoran 00:14:08
Having to dig her out of holders what we knew at a community we could do to help her. So from that,
within the next three days after
South was born the district against sexual assault. And
it started off of the group of fifteen of and now there are almost four hundred of us on the private facebook page, which anybody is welcome to
Lorilee Binstock 00:14:28
Oh wow.
Dayna Corcoran 00:14:32
within the first seven days,
our community and our local
female owned vendor and is very specifically female owned because that's
the page that we had started with was just women
just so we didn't share her information out too far. But the neighborhood
vendors and the women at our local salon. We see those fabulous times distal lane,
even our self handing lady
no at because she donated
her time and her finding, you know, the business and we we raised over ten thousand dollar in seven days.
Lorilee Binstock 00:15:11
Oh.
Dayna Corcoran 00:15:12
Are we're both the Fas women in West,
North Carolina, the small town. We all moved to. We
are local twins south,
restaurant
donated their time and they they donated large check, and
we did a basket raffle, and we made sure our local vendor
that five made our shirts
within two days. It was
crazy and insane, amazing how quickly it came together all the same pod.
And then later on, when we discuss sexual assault, and some of the reasons why not reported,
we can talk about how
these these women and the majority of them had never met her. They came out
to function after function after function, volunteered of their time, their money,
everything that they could and they still had never better up until two weeks ago, when I had a a fast gathering at the house,
and
we're having this
another fundraiser. This car game center is a and I I get up, and I I I think everybody's are coming, and I sent our a excellent halt survivor that we treated in santa for a year. And half the members didn't even know that.
Lorilee Binstock 00:16:25
Oh goodness.
Dayna Corcoran 00:16:25
So she she
thanked everyone, and it was like...
It
it's amazing at this age and and our stage in our life, but there's so many people that are supportive
to other women or even any anybody that's a a victim of sex little felt that they don't even know.
You know, I can donate eat money on Facebook. I can say, you know, here's your fifty dollars per your fundraiser, I think it great.
But these women were... These are still donating their personal time,
Just, because they want to help her in the situation she's been in which I agreed that super crazy the the story that she tells
Lorilee Binstock 00:16:55
Mhmm
Mhmm
Dayna Corcoran 00:17:02
the story that happened to her from start to,
is a forty eight hour episode. It is something that
she is fifty six. You know, she's not eighteen on on spring break. She wasn't
somebody that is not educated that they're not that's the loose that out to party and, you know, go to these places and not be aware of your surroundings. It can happen to anyone at any time in any situation.
Lorilee Binstock 00:17:25
Mhmm.
Yeah. I mean, that just listening to the story, it just... It it breaks my heart.
Dayna Corcoran 00:17:33
Mhmm.
Lorilee Binstock 00:17:34
But it's so inspiring how this community of women really came together for this person. Many of them didn't even know.
Dayna Corcoran 00:17:41
Mhmm.
Lorilee Binstock 00:17:42
Wow. I mean, I... Oh, gosh. That's just gives because me chills how beautiful that is because I feel like, you know, we need more women supporting women, and
Dayna Corcoran 00:17:49
I.
Lorilee Binstock 00:17:51
I just... Wow.
I I can't
I I I know that your your
deep... For your organization, I know you're talking about awareness and prevention and training,
but it seems like
something internationally
that happened
there's there there
other things that we need to also worry about, because she couldn't even file a complaint or she did, and it was with the... And then
Dayna Corcoran 00:18:13
Right.
Lorilee Binstock 00:18:15
do you have any sense of
of
what we can tell people who are traveling
overseas, especially
to to be aware of certain situations and potential stories just like Dana.
Dayna Corcoran 00:18:31
Mhmm.
So
I will say that
from this... And in even from our very first
fundraiser
that
you know... And in there's fertility, that may have reduce context assault, but there are so many people that have lived through
some typing in of event. An incident that is similar. You know I mean, this one is is big, but that were similar They I had come up to us and I wanted the Dominican public. There's another in the small community that we're in
that they had seen somebody put something in their drink. And they have reported it. And and... And the...
Lorilee Binstock 00:19:05
Yeah.
Dayna Corcoran 00:19:09
It goes back to everyone goes back to the bartender center, it goes back to the and go back to the hotel it goes back to the law that not being enforced on these
and the
residential, you know, these these all included places that we pay to go to. They're not being held accountable. So at least what we can do here is put out a awareness and put out
travel awareness. Don't go to... And that that's what we're in the stages of doing now. The Sas happened so quickly at the beginning and we were so focused on fixing and helping being in
Lorilee Binstock 00:19:31
Mhmm.
Dayna Corcoran 00:19:39
giving our survivor what she needed.
Finance she needed financial help. She needed Thomas Therapy. We have a few therapist in our Community alone that offered their services for free.
Lorilee Binstock 00:19:46
Yeah.
Dayna Corcoran 00:19:51
She was... One of our therapist here,
please term with the top trauma therapist in the area she immediately got in, even though there was a second a month wait.
She started her therapy right away, which I know was helpful for her?
And and through that, the therapist said you need to write down your story. And when you feel comfortable, you need to take it to the news and when you feel more comfortable,
you need to take it to the Dominican Republican and you feel more comfortable. You need to take it to Do and rally for the right to survivors for sexual assault, and that's what our long term goals are,
including
therapy intensive weekend camp for survivor and their family members. Because are the type of things this fast I would like to fund,
like, she had the grown children. They may not wanna go to therapy every week to talk about
how or they can't because they're not local.
So we would like to fund... Let's go to this family camp for three days. With a set of platform with something we can build from
and
help
survive this. We're she's going to I'm going through it every day, and I wasn't paired. It didn't happen to me.
Lorilee Binstock 00:20:58
Mhmm.
Dayna Corcoran 00:21:00
We... You know...
And that's another thing with
awareness.
We... The first thing we did was, okay, we're gonna make these baskets while we're making these back to rattle.
What can we do to make sure this doesn't happen to anybody else we went online. We purchased the cup covers, which we have and we give out to people, it's kind of like a sticker, but it doesn't ruin your glass. You poke your straw through it,
But in her situation that wouldn't have helped because we believed that the bartender was in on
her kidnapped, which is
how you're doing research online and talking to other long officers that is how
they coordinate their organized crime there It it goes all the way back to the bartender centers so that nobody
nobody. I mean, who do you think your pains... You know, you're you're getting your drink from a a bar tender at a reputable plane.
You don't think things like that. We don't think things like what.
Lorilee Binstock 00:21:51
No.
Yeah.
Dayna Corcoran 00:21:53
So
we research the
these drink kits where we can test your drink. It's kind of like a Covid test. You gotta take your drink out, put it in there.
We researched the... There was two
college kids from North Carolina actually that started the nail polish that if you dumped your nail polish in the drink, and it change colors if then at something in it, we couldn't find any more information on that. Maybe it's not going on anymore.
There has to be it an easier way
I mean, we shouldn't have to protect ourselves from our own dreams, but they're happy will be away what we can do that.
Lorilee Binstock 00:22:25
Oh, yeah.
Dayna Corcoran 00:22:29
So our short term goals were to help our survivor, our long term goal to therapy, and we have
I asked her. Actually, you know, when she came back
and we had started with Casa,
we set up a meal train, which was immediately packed for two months. So people came and it left food at her door we started to go find me. We did the fundraiser, but I didn't
Lorilee Binstock 00:22:46
One
Dayna Corcoran 00:22:53
go over to our house. I didn't sit down with her because I knew other people were doing that. I knew she had to go through these steps on her own. I didn't wanna interview her. I didn't want to, you know, crack the case and I didn't want to do that to her because that's not what she needed, then I waited a we And then I taken over a package for her with pajamas and and things that were donated from the neighborhood.
Lorilee Binstock 00:23:08
Mhmm.
Dayna Corcoran 00:23:15
And through my conversation with her,
I just I noticed her,
like, lean down and, like, picket or toes and how like what are you doing? And she why I guess it I won't be getting a white pe.
Ever again. And I noticed that even a week later,
her pe was stained with her own blood.
Lorilee Binstock 00:23:34
Oh, my goodness.
Dayna Corcoran 00:23:34
It she had been
drug
you know, she's been pushed out of the car, You know, the thick gel, it is scraped in the blood that in there so much
Lorilee Binstock 00:23:41
Yep.
Dayna Corcoran 00:23:44
that
it... And I I was like, oh, my gosh. It was
an awakening for me to watch this happen to her. So some that, we asked her
what can we do as a group to help other victims and survivors of sexual assault when that happens to them? What did you need?
In that hospital, which she everything she had gotten sick, vomit in her own bed, and they said, just cover it up.
And roll over. And so she had been throwing up from this medication and then and she had essentially lay in her own
Lorilee Binstock 00:24:13
Mhmm
Dayna Corcoran 00:24:17
vomit and So that's not hopefully that doesn't happen in Us hospital here. But
what can we do here for victims and sexual assault when they leave?
The... Or when they're at the hospital getting there and. And are one of our founders, Jennifer she reached out to the Emergency room in Bird.
Charlotte and
our local emergency room here off at Providence Road
along with the information that our survivor Angie
Gave us. She said, you know, I could have really used a views ago.
I could have you really need math loss. I could have used
Lorilee Binstock 00:24:48
Mhmm.
Dayna Corcoran 00:24:52
close, you know, you're... She's left in the bloody dress that she was playing in for three days. But here in the Us, they would leave in
you know, like, the hospital gown
Lorilee Binstock 00:25:02
Right.
Dayna Corcoran 00:25:03
Wasn't bit more
than sitting out of a stop or having to get in the car with your mom or your dad in a hospital little gown.
When you have to go to the hop, it will be... When you have to go to the
Cvs to get your medicine or or whatever needs to be done we made a list of things that people
needed
when they believed the post examination and evidence collection without feeling victim,
and
we had these kids donated from every one of the neighborhood,
you know, the kitchen travel went like, the shampoo, and the body wash. We went to five and below. We bought pants and underwear and face cloth. Like, she, I wish I could just have wiped the blood off my face because people were staring at me
Lorilee Binstock 00:25:33
Mhmm.
Yes. Yeah.
Dayna Corcoran 00:25:47
ties. Know just...
Lorilee Binstock 00:25:49
Basics.
Dayna Corcoran 00:25:50
I don't that you need basic items. We bought back, and not I'm just script bag,
and we packed them and each bag for us cost of approximately twenty dollars to make, which is great. But
which is which is reasonable
for everything that was in it. But when we went to the hot formation, we have we needed of this.
You know, we there's a few programs around here that do them, they donate
both certain items, but there's nothing we can give them as a bag.
Which is where the emergency room care package program came from through.
It... But there three hundred
sexual assault kits that were done in the emergency room in Charlotte area in one year.
So times that by twenty dollars, has a lot coming from a brand new non profit foundation.
But we... Well once we heard that we're, alright, well, we're gonna have to front the money for this because we wanna make sure
that everyone that goes into that hospital comes out or something. So we're doing the process of making those
And I'm sorry, you said awareness with the international week. So she's gotten to a point where
we're posting
travel advisor.
Where our entire
group is posting information on,
you know, like, a travel
heads up, if you will, Like,
And people like my girlfriend be my girlfriend texted out me the other day and said, hey, my my daughter got a lot of friends on spring break going Dominican Republic.
What was the name of that resort again? And these are people that are vulnerable.
Lorilee Binstock 00:27:20
Yeah. I kinda wanna know too.
Dayna Corcoran 00:27:22
Yeah. I again I and I don't know how that I I'm good I can... I send it to you. I can attach it. I know it was
in the Dominican Republic in Put, and it was a chips resort, but is happening
Lorilee Binstock 00:27:32
Mhmm
Dayna Corcoran 00:27:34
at all their rewards. If something similar as happening? Mean when you have math, people going to vacation,
you know, there's
there's even cruise lines there's things that
that
everybody's detection me because they're listening I
So there's
it's bad thing happen everywhere. But with something it that this...
Normal thing, like this that is issues this and and this going back to why we went one of our long term goal is to do early education
to both male and females, but in the schools, do early education.
It's obvious it's this sexual, So I was gonna traumatized her and her family forever. But
Lorilee Binstock 00:28:13
Yeah.
Dayna Corcoran 00:28:14
one sec incident the sexual can do the exact same one
at a party or one college party where somebody,
you know, is passed out and the guy thinks out that she said, yeah. Earlier and now she passed out what they're gonna happen. They have to realize that, you know, their fun time hook at at this party that they saw
Lorilee Binstock 00:28:26
Yeah.
Dayna Corcoran 00:28:33
she was
contextual to will lead to a lifetime of unresolved, trauma, if not,
disgust or if not prevented.
So that's... And and obviously, that's a long term goal, we're we're eight weeks into them. And we've already
started the foundation we have we're
we have insurance and we have bank account and we have all these things, and
this is amazing. What what people we have done?
Lorilee Binstock 00:28:58
That is amazing.
I mean, it's amazing. You're doing so much and you're here. Talking about it and spreading awareness, and and I think that's wonderful.
Do you think that there's anything that
we should be... Like, do you think they were targeting?
You
Dayna Corcoran 00:29:16
So so maybe on the Internet research and
of the Dominican republic or Mexico or anywhere where you travel
specifically to this type of crime. They're targeting
older
men and women and in statistically,
for the international crimes the men
because she felt comfortable reaching out to her friend group. I don't know that if it happened to my husband or somebody that in the exact same situation, but of a male in her situation would even admit that doesn't happened to them. So they're hoping that
Lorilee Binstock 00:29:46
Mhmm.
Right.
Dayna Corcoran 00:29:51
you know, they...
She... Her fight or flight was... I wanna record it and I wanna get home to my children. So she left knowing that that was her decision. And then we have to go back and find it.
I would think in a similar situation, a male
victim would be less
you know, receptive to reaching out. And and, again, I pulled the statistics of men versus female
victims and it in one of the and reason people don't report it is
sadly, it's a common phenomenon. It's the victim blaming.
And when she
Lorilee Binstock 00:30:26
Right.
Dayna Corcoran 00:30:28
told me this story. I mean, I've literally typed it up as she was saying it, and I sent it to our our zombie group, and I said...
I said, this is not a joke. This is not... I the first thing I had to say was this is for real because it sounds like it was written by, you know, James Patterson, and this is gonna be the movie. And
Lorilee Binstock 00:30:45
Mhmm
Dayna Corcoran 00:30:47
because of every stage that she went through, it just got more horrific. So so biggest done the research on the Internet was... You know, they they they knew that she had come with a companion, but they weren't they were friends. They weren't together. They were in separate room.
She... He he went to bed early every night, and she stayed out there. They they've found her. They watched her. They waited a few days.
And they knew him. They know they come there for seven days five days, whatever the minimum night is, and they wait until it's the end.
And then the all happens.
And they... And just the people that have access to money. You know, my... Eighteen year old goes this spring Right, she might have my credit card on her phone, but she doesn't have a way to get eight thousand one dollars in cash.
Lorilee Binstock 00:31:22
Mhmm.
Dayna Corcoran 00:31:32
So they all people that
Lorilee Binstock 00:31:32
Right.
Dayna Corcoran 00:31:34
look like they have money. Older women that he'll had access to money.
And
I you know, I'm in my forties, but I couldn't imagine that fifty six
then happening.
Or any
Lorilee Binstock 00:31:46
Right.
Dayna Corcoran 00:31:47
level of sexual assault happening. But you... You know, you know, you you go in college and your mom horns you, You know, don't look look around before you get out the gas station.
Then do that at fifty six, Fifty seven, forty seven and what are the aging? Well, you're constantly not looking over your shoulder because... I'm not in high demand. You know? Don't happy What in that one, that wasn't the case The kid wasn't. I want to sexually you saw you The case was
Lorilee Binstock 00:31:59
Right. You're right.
Yeah
Dayna Corcoran 00:32:11
this sexual assault is gonna happen because you're gonna pay the money.
Lorilee Binstock 00:32:15
That's horrible.
Dayna Corcoran 00:32:15
And that's how she... That's what she feels happens. The the the way that the bills were given to her, individually. It was like people were getting paid for different things.
It was it
she's lived. She lived
through the worst situation that anybody and in a different country
where you're... And you're told you're not gonna survive it. And
So when you come back and you tell this crazy story,
who's gonna believe you. And that's a common reason why people don't
report sexual assault, and then victim blaming. And she been said when I talk to her, I'm not blaming myself for what I wore. I'm not blaming myself because you know, I keep myself together. I'm not... And that's great. And and I'm glad that you can do that because
Lorilee Binstock 00:32:49
Mhmm.
Yeah.
Dayna Corcoran 00:33:01
it it was horrific and nobody
you know, nobody asked to be sexually filtered, and we have to remind our children our our girls are void that that at any point in a new situation,
regardless what we're happening leading up to it, when but you don't want something to happen. It shouldn't happen.
Lorilee Binstock 00:33:18
Right. Right. And and, you know,
many of us go out on our own
Dayna Corcoran 00:33:22
Mhmm.
Lorilee Binstock 00:33:22
and and that's scary that we have to really be on the lookout
for... I mean, even even here our states side,
Dayna Corcoran 00:33:28
Mhmm.
Lorilee Binstock 00:33:29
you know,
anything could happen Bartender could easily put something in our drink. Is there's is there anything that we should be aware of
Dayna Corcoran 00:33:32
Mhmm.
Lorilee Binstock 00:33:36
as far as that goes when we're going out on our own say,
Dayna Corcoran 00:33:39
Well, yeah. Going out on your own yet,
Lorilee Binstock 00:33:41
Mhmm
Dayna Corcoran 00:33:41
I don't go out on your own. But,
you know, the... That came up too when we were discussing it one of our members I went to more of the
the Charlotte
Bar
we're like something with all and immediately when she realized
because you know what you can drink and what you can't drink in chronic. And when you immediately she realized something didn't feel right. She called somebody and they go man. You're slur like, something's wrong with using really out of it. And she said I think something happened to me, and they came and picked her up. So just
be aware. And, you know, I saw one of those commercials on The other day, and it was what... You know, you you do a hand signal no nobody knows those? Do you do...
What should we do with that? Maybe we should come come up with a word or come up with a names. And if you go to the bartender,
and you say, you know, you can say, I think I've been drugs. They'll take care of you. But if you're not comfortable in saying that or somebody's following you or
stalking you
assaulting you verbally assaulting you are being a crowd of maybe there's something you we can come up with that they can say to the to a Bartender or bar owner or a
receptionist is that that will get the attention that they need. So maybe that's something we can come up with, always we having it out
always having your phone location on now that we have those. You know, we back in my bar days, we didn't have those
Lorilee Binstock 00:34:57
Yeah.
Dayna Corcoran 00:35:02
But
it's...
And so I'm just looking over this staff how to make sure we retire. Why do why are people not reporting their users because they're are afraid of not being believed,
Lorilee Binstock 00:35:10
Yeah.
Dayna Corcoran 00:35:13
nine times out of ten is a family member or somebody, you know, you somebody that has access to you,
The majority of sexual assault are not reported only, three hundred ten out of every thousand sexual assault are reported to police.
Meaning two out of three go reported,
it's just...
We need to make sure that our youth are middle aged our older every
stage of your life. You know who to contact.
Lorilee Binstock 00:35:36
Everyone.
Dayna Corcoran 00:35:39
We have a very good
North Carolina
organized company called Rain rave
says.
National network or the national network
Lorilee Binstock 00:35:46
Mhmm.
Dayna Corcoran 00:35:49
that how a hotline line
I'm... I've sent you everything we can attach it or whatever you needed.
Lorilee Binstock 00:35:53
Yep. I can all I can absolutely put that in the show notes. Definitely.
Dayna Corcoran 00:35:56
Okay. Obviously, if you're in the immediate danger called nine eleven one, tell them where you're at. Let them know what's happening. I would rather my daughter or my south call every time I thought something was happening,
than not... We and atlanta are non in law enforcement. We are just a profit organization.
Lorilee Binstock 00:36:08
Right.
Dayna Corcoran 00:36:13
Maybe like, a middle, a conduit that's a happy face where you can come to me, and then I anything I think that happened.
What should I do? We have
all the resources and and pant you need that we can
send to you or... We've had people in the neighborhood, say my daughter was raped
many many years ago,
I just kinda needed it. I could... I kinda need this. You know? I I need I need a home for my sadness, and that's what we're for.
We... Just... We have volunteers that can come meet with you. We we don't have out legal advice. We don't
we don't do anything like that. We're just the middle man that that can help you feel better about reporting your situation, and we can help with fundraising
any type of support that I needed?
This is a LIVE replay of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast which aired Wednesday, March 15th, 2023 at 1130am ET on Fireside Chat.
Trigger Warning: This podcast contains discussions of suicidal ideation and the use of psychedelics to heal postpartum psychosis. We are not doctors in the medical field and are only speaking in the nature of our own experiences. If you are experiencing postpartum depression or psychosis, please reach out to your physician. If you would like to support or donate to the movement for psychedelic advocacy, check out the psychedelic medicine coalition
Today’s guest is Melissa Lavasani, Founder and Chief Executive Officer of Washington, DC-based Psychedelic Medicine Coalition, the first and only member association focusing on advocating for psychedelics at the Federal, State, and local levels of government. Prior to founding Psychedelic Medicine Coalition, Melissa was Chairwoman of Decriminalize Nature DC and proposer of Washington DC’s successful 2020 ballot measure Initiative 81: the Entheogenic Plant and Fungus Policy Act. Inspired by her own experience of using psychedelics to heal her severe postpartum depression, Melissa led the Decriminalize Nature DC campaign to the largest ballot initiative victory in the history of our nation’s capital.
Lorilee Binstock 00:00:32
Welcome. I'm Lorilee Binstock, and this is A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast..
Thank you so much for joining me live On Fire side chat, where you can be a part of the conversation as my virtual audience. I'm your host, Lorilee Binstock. Everyone has an opportunity to ask me or our guess questions by requesting to hop on stage. You're sending a message in the chat box. I will try to get to you, but I do ask that everybody be respectful.
Today's guest is Melissa Lavasani, founder and chief executive officer of Washington Dc based psychedelic Medicine coalition.
The first and only member association focusing on advocating for psychedelic psychedelics at the federal state and local levels of government. Prior to founding psychedelic medicine coalition Melissa was chair women of nature Dc and composer of Washington Dc successful twenty twenty ballot measure initiative eighty one then
plant and fungus policy act, inspired by your own experience of using psychedelics to heal her severe post depression, Melissa led the criminal nature Dc campaign to the largest vaglio initiative victory in the history of our nation's capitals.
Melissa, thank you so much for joining me today. Thanks for having me. You know, this is the first time I've actually ever had someone in my studio, which Now, you know, is a closet. I feel so on her. You you should be. I would not let a lot of people into my closet, but I do consider you a friend
I met you through the whole movement, the psychedelic movement. And, actually, you have some news to share today.
Melissa Lavasani:
Yeah. we are launching a pack a political action committee.
It's called Psychedelic medicine talk, and is a way to engage with everyday noncitizens on this issue. You know, the coalition is really focused on specifically the ecosystem and bringing the industry that is coming out of that ecosystem to the capitol hill and getting them to advocate for changes in laws.
But we found that it was it's really important to engage American people on this issue.
There's regularly their stories in the media talking about and shaping up medicine, but,
you know, getting people are interested in this issue and getting them involved in the political process. To put leaders in place that will, you know, get behind this issue and congress and then and in state legislatures, is really important. That's how, you know, elections is one way to exercise our voice in this country, and that is how
we can really create change as if the current leadership is not supporting Psychedelic medicine, healing Americans, and just like have giving Americans a choice in the matter, you know, our with our mental health care system being so in in this this situation of it's end, you know, getting people involved in the political process is just really important, and I think it's gonna help us shift the stigma around he's medicine to his government.
Lorilee Binstock
Well, you yourself was not someone who was someone who did poking unquote drugs right.
And so this is kind of a surprising term for you. This was what twenty twenty, twenty, Yeah. Twenty nineteen my,
twenty nineteen is when I... Like, really found the solutions and, like, stepped into this political process.
Prior to that I was a Dc government employee. I was working in policy and budget. And
know, working at a a hyper local level was super gratifying. It's like the things that I was working on and I could and touch and feel in my everyday life being a Dc resident, And that was great. And I thought well, this is, you know, I got my master's degree and policy. A few years before that, I wanted to do something that made Americans lives better. I didn't know what it was specifically. I thought I would really go into foreign policy.
And that's why my entire master's degree was about is foreign policy, but you know, I think she... There's a saying you plan in god, a master plan and to just be, like a really solid public servant her the city of Dc was it wasn't my destiny at all? Yeah. I got... I was pregnant with my second child working and
our version of City Hall and Dc. It's called the Wilson building. Man having oversight of various distributions is I was pregnant with my second child. I was dealing with a really difficult pregnancy. I've been an athlete my whole life I've always been active my first pregnancy had no issues. But my second one I I felt it was like, my she was like, to sucking my soul in a way. It was like, I it was a very hard process. Like, my body was just not working the same way that it did. I was, of course, a little bit older too having children in my late thirties,
and I had really terrible. So, you know, being active was kinda taken out of the equation completely. I wasn't working out regularly because that, I wasn't really engaged with my health in general. I wasn't eating properly.
You know, I was just kind of there's franchise from the process and you're dealing with. And I had a little taste of what people who deal with chronic pain, know, you was on a daily basis and that I see like that has a direct result on your mental health. And I was... If it got so bad that I was like, crawling up the stairs at the end of the night, when I couldn't stand off properly, I just could've... I was not comfortable. And it I had what they call anti part of depression. And it's not a very well known term. I never even heard of it before this. Yeah. I've never heard of that. Yeah. There's time I'm hearing about it. Yeah. I was going in for a regular checkup And
my regular physician was on vacation, so I was seeing somebody else. And she walked in the door and she just like, hey are you doing? I don't know what it was. Maybe it was, like a female voice that, you know, it was just comforting or something. But, like, I immediately started crying, And like I couldn't even articulate a word,
and she immediately picked up her prescription time started writing me a prescription engine process.
And she's, like, just take this. You'll feel better, immediately. You'll get off of this after you deliver the baby. Everything will be fine and they're so healthy soon. Process. Now I knew that that most likely, wasn't gonna be the case. I've had two friends now, take their own lives, while they were all depression. Yeah I've seen other friends who have been on depression of various kinds for twenty years. You know, I I've seen them a struggle with tapering off of one and trying another one and just the uncertainty that goes along with that. So
And mind, I was getting prescribed this job, it supposed to help me, but I knew that
it could have potentially harmed me even further. So, guys. So I just... I talked to the prescription and I went home, and I was just... It did it wow with me and I was talking to my husband Daniel about it, and he was like, well, if you're not comfortable taking it, like, don't take it, we'll just try and figure this out another way.
But there's... Really... When depression, kinda takes over, it's there's you you lose the range of your ship and she... You know, something else takes you takes you over.
And no matter what I did, nothing was fixing this and it was just getting worse and worse. But I made it through the pregnancy, delivered the baby. He's healthy, happy.
That's I kid alive. But after, and I felt okay for, like, a week or two, and then after two weeks, my health just like, completely declined. I was in the most severe depression that I've ever been, and I've never had any mental health issues prior to this experience. I had a little bit of part with my first daughter, but that went away as soon as I could, you know, get my bearings and get in their routine again and I started going back to work and working out and to fixing a diet.
So I had assumed that this would just naturally go away, like, my other experience did or how that other kids happen. But this just progressively got worse. I was also dealing with paralyzing
anxiety. I was having panic attacks on a regular basis. I had extreme paranoia. I never, like, let my husband drive the kids around. Like, if the kids were in the car, I was driving
I was convinced that, like, he was, you know, gonna bake a bad judgment call. Like, it was very strange, the places that my mind went. And then the at the very worst part of my depression I was hearing voices and it experiencing to the idea. So And I believe that term, you know, there's, like, a term for a push part of psychologists. Right? Nothing nothing is very little data supports this, and, you know, we're we're not really given any resources. You know, You know, this your mom after you a kid. You your baby has, like, twenty checkup, but you have your one checkup.
Your doctor tells you you're clear to have sex and that you're on your way. And, like, that's the milestone for you. No one is regularly checking in on you and I and for me, like, I don't have any family in the city.
I have, like, extended family out in the suburbs, that, like, they're old and they can't really be his hands on, like, without somebody coming in and helping. It was really hard to kind of manage all this.
And in so and I was trying everything. And except you're were into depression. Okay. Yeah. That's I I was very
the paranoid I had about antidepressants before this experience was just, like, completely...
It completely exaggerated during my depression. Like guy was convinced at that point if I had gotten on these drugs if that would be my permanent doom, I would take my life, like, that would be the end of me. Mhmm
Wow, if I was just dealing one my depression without ancient depression, like, I I was experiencing I idea, but I felt like I was in control of that decision. You know?
And whenever I was ready to do that, I would go ahead and do that. And it wasn't a medication that was altering my mind and, you know, making me worse. Right. Right. So they can... It can. Yeah. I mean, and they can work for people as well. I've seen success stories out of this. But if there is another medication we can take and another therapeutic experience we can have, that's extremely effective. So far is what we're learning.
Like, why not explore this idea? Like, in real life application? For American people. You know, it can't be... It's already proven that's not worse than what we currently have the on. So So I stumbled up on a podcast and actually a friend of mine who said and he listened to this podcast with Paul Stamets, and we didn't talk to anybody really about our depression, our kids. Our friends were having kids at the same time.
Everyone was, like, truly enjoying the experience of what it seemed, like, And and I felt like, I'm really struggling right now. And I life, why I have everything I wanna. I got an amazing husband.
I've got two beautiful healthy children. I I've gotta roof over my head. Everyone's fed and clean, and we've got two stable jobs, like, what more could a oppression lot. Alright? So there were these also extreme feelings of guilt, like, there there's something inherently flawed in me that can appreciate all the guests that I've been given.
And it... It of course, it wasn't that it's very little to do with that. I mean, you can be surrounded by
I mean, my my last frontier took life, she was surrounded by amazing people an amazing group of women a community of women that supported her and helped her try to navigate through her depression.
She had a husband who is awesome. A beautiful daughter, you know, if a job she worked for the Smithsonian,
and she had all the support systems in place that you think would keep a person alive, but she still decided to take her life. So that's how, like, dire this disease is you you can be in a amazing situation in this phase of your life, but if you are dealing with this illness, you're convinced the exact opposite everything and that you're worthless lesson and nobody loves you, and it's it's extremely debilitating, and it's it's now we are learning it's impacting many more Americans and we thought it was. Yeah. I mean, the woman in Massachusetts right. The woman who was dealing with post part and the psychosis, and she took, you know, murdered her three kids. Right. And she tried to take her own life. Yeah. And it doesn't sound like she didn't have the support that she needed. You know, her husband came out not long after. And was like, please forgive her. This is not who she was. Right? And and, you know, that's pretty. Right? Like, like up million about to cry right now.
But, yeah, as you you think about, like, they... She was on antidepressants. She was on multiple anti antidepressants. I was reading about that. And, again, like, I'm not saying that antidepressants are bad because they... You know, for me, they were helpful for me to kinda put out the fire, but that wasn't something that I needed to stay audio. But like you said, like, for her, she was on antidepressants, andthe event that happened happened still, You know? Yeah. No one. It's it's very unclear.
What to do in the situation, obviously, I feel like doctors are still not.
They still have no idea. Yeah. But you found a way, Yeah, which I think
we really need to explore more. Can you talk about how you... Because you started micro designing from podcast the the Joe. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The false Damn. Mhmm.
Can you talk about a how you decided? How did how was that decision making you heard this podcast? Academy. And what was your next thought? Like, I'm gonna do it or where you really had tip.
The next thought was more like exploratory. Like, okay. I I've heard... And I did my own one of the deep dive into the Internet about psychedelics in general, especially psilocybin because that's what
Paul was talking about in that podcast. And I was like, well, how can I do this illegally?
You know, like, let's explore what the real options are here. I could apply for a clinical trial, which I did and eventually, didn't qualify for those are very hard to get into very few spots available for people to get into that. And once you're into them, mean still might be given a placebo. But then I looked at there's retreats in other countries. And at the time, like, we have a growing family, we're too nice government employees like,
I didn't have, like, five grand to blow on a wellness retreat. But you know, that sounded so
despite the dire situation that I was in to get on a flight away from my new fan my menu baby, my other child, my husband, and like, go with to Jamaica. It it it seemed like, surely there must be another way. You know?
Right. Let's do illegally. Yeah. We had to do it illegally, fortunately you want, and we figured it out. So my husband went on reddit in Youtube and wants videos. I think he I can he grew up around mushrooms. I this was not a new concept for him. Right? He is from Northeastern, Alabama. He was taught at fourteen years old, which mushrooms to pick off the cow patty. Yeah. Women his friends would go listen to music. It was a part of their culture there. So he was listening to that podcast being like this it... Like, confirming everything is like, yeah, everything that he's saying is true you're never hung over. You feel amazing. You don't wanna do it very much.
It's not like you're gonna have, like, seven days in a row, a lot of the mushroom bend, you do it once,
maybe twice and you're good for a long time. So he's at this point in time, we were in couples counseling because I was the only way I would go to therapy is if he was literally dragging me there, our marriage was suffering. I was a completely at mother, like, totally disengage with my children, not knowing what even going on at school. My nanny was full blown, raising my son. They thank God for her because she really filled in and was that emotional support for him that I really credit her for him being such a great kid. And because when I went there, those years zero to three are super informative, and they say, like, the more effects you give your child, the better you are, the better off of Ar are the our adults they're more functional they're more balance.
And I was just... I was doing this very, very minimum. I was feeding. I was just change diapers, but there was not a lot of love that they were getting for me. So I had... And and my husband filled in when he used kind of social work background, he understands the system. So he filled in and where he could where I was absent. So I had at least my children were taken care of in that way, but at this point, we were so desperate for a solution that we were like, let's just figure this out from the underground. You know She can buy spores online legally. So we bought the spores and we bought rest of supplies that like lowe's or Amazon. It was not very difficult to finals. Size. And we just experimented our first time, and it was super successful. We had amazing they're color flesh. We had his amazing flush. And it was cool to have this like science experience. So like oh, okay. We are growing medicine. This is awesome. So we did in our bedroom. It took a long time to, like, have mushrooms that we could eat. But how long would it take? Oh, man. At least, it was, like, three to six months. Oh my goodness. I have, like, memory issues from this period of time in that race? And as do most people who deal with true.
It's it that was, like, the... I feel like the saddest thing is like, oh, there's parts of my kids lives, but like, I just don't remember. So I'll go through my especially my husband's camera role
and seeing and he'll be like, do you remember this? So be like, I don't what were we doing? I don't I really don't recall certain things with them.
But the... I remember the mushrooms taking a little while to pick up because it it's in multiple phases. So it was a a good three to six months before we had any. So during this time, did you what was your... What was your mental state like? Were you like, okay? Well, there is a way. So I'm I'm just gonna get through each day or was their days that you were just like, fucking I'm gonna kill myself. Yeah. Definitely. Yeah. Because at this point in time, no alternative therapy had really worked for me. Mhmm like I said, before, I wasn't going to talk Therapy. I was getting dragged to couples therapy. So, like, I hated that process and it's just miserable doing that.
So I was like, well, this is just gonna be another thing and if it works, consider me lucky, and then as it doesn't, like, either I get on the depression or I kill myself. And if I get on the depression, I show my kale myself. So there was really one option and one way out of this terrain, like, this I was convinced this was my life now, and this is just how I am and I'm forever changed. But I started micro, and, you know, there isn't a lot of data about micro producing, but I was really uncomfortable having a full blown psychology experience. These are not drugs I ever tried in my party days. I know it's never curious about My none of it. I thought I thought these were drugs were burnout out and, like, loser. And and like I I I had in my mind, the picture of somebody who takes a psychedelics and it's so funny that I'm doing this now because I'm I'm was so far off. Right now. Right. And so I was like, well, I'll just start with micro. Let me build up some confidence in in this process and dip my toes in first. And don't need to go all in. And was in a matter of of, like, three days. I was on the floor playing with my son, and that was the first time my husband had ever seen now.
Yeah. So he was like, for his my he's like be shit. Like, my wife is back The person I married, you know, And he always jokes around that he married me because I was quote unquote the normal you know, I was... I was a steady girlfriend that was just, like, always there. Never, you know, we never fought, and we had the most normal healthy relationship. I ever had. And so for him to see there's, like, tiny glimmer hope, he got really excited for it. So but I was still going do this process very cautious and not... Getting my hopes up too high because, you know, that disappointment I knew it was coming for me, but I continued with the micro and was getting into a rhythm with life, and was starting to feel good again. And then we run out of mushrooms. And I was like, okay. Well, maybe I just don't need to do this anymore. Mhmm. But my depression started to creep back. And we tried to grow another slash mushrooms, and it got contaminated.
They're they can it terminated very easily. Obviously, we're not doing this in a lab. Right we're doing it in our bedroom. So we tried to create sterile environment as my can make skin control matters,
And how does it can become contaminated? Just something in the area that wrote like he would whenever he was and not them, I think... You have you ain't knock. You said it's like a real different process. Oh you were sure. You can fringe. She was just gone to a farm.
I know. I know. But that like we... I've got two kids in the job.
I have time to go, like, Peru fires to the girl, Virginia, You know?
Can I just check out your cal? Sorry. They know what we're looking for too. I'm sure they're you.
Yeah. So this was like... And this was a way to do it in into us, it wasn't a controlled environment. No one knew we were doing this. We were two public servants, like, my husband has worked in Dc politics
and she has a lot of of very great hours of people here locally. And we didn't want anyone to know we were doing this. So it wasn't a situation where, like, we were asking our friends around
who had mushrooms. I'm sure somebody did we looked hard enough, but we were was very hush. She was... First of, no one really understood the gravity of what we were dealing with with my depression. And then
second, like, how do you ask your friends if they have the schedule one substance? I it like, send them to federal prison for decades. Do you know like, it is just That's a question that not a lot of people wanna ask
and So growing them was really the only option for us, and it was working for a really long time, but
when we click grow anymore, it became obvious. I needed to have, like, a a true intervention, and that's when I just got referred it. Alaska, and that was through one of our friends who one of, like, the three friends that knew when we were struggling and I say we were struggling. Was like, I was suffering from depression, but my husband was definitely struggling with keeping our life together. Right? You know, I have a lot of pressures. Yeah. I'm gonna hub for the family. And if if I'm not functioning properly, everything kind falls apart, and that's just...
The roles that we play. And, you know, it it was it was very hard on him, and I think that he is just now, like, getting out of, like, the post depression spells, and she blow back. That happens when somebody goes through something. In in a couple. But one of our friendswho Daniel talked to frequently about what we were going through
was like,
she had her own experience with Iowa,
and I
in my own deep dive of looking our develops and what the landscape was I Can let why are they illegal, what's the history?
Why are policies the where they are?
What is the cultural history of this?
I was somewhat familiar with alaska, and I knew that it was something that
people were doing in South America and they're having amazing,
like, benefits from it.
People
would eventually just
go down to South America
have a a week long experience and come back and feel like
themselves again, and
but my friend was like, that this like, you don't need to go to soften america like he... There's a guy. I know he travels around, and I only by word of mouth, he's coming to New York City in two months,
just take a train and get up here.
And I think that, like, I wouldn't have even been gone on a train if it wasn't for the mushrooms getting me out of the very doable bowl. But at least like, I was in a place I felt okay to
partnership it and like you get on a trains in New York City
and
go through this, like, extremely sensory experience
of
just like getting through New York City to Brooklyn where this guy was host this ceremony. And,
you know, looking back, That was so incredibly brave of me or like dumb. I don't really know.
I that.
I no. I need to be a little dumb to be brave.
But
I went to the strangers apartment and with twenty people that I had never met before,
including the the healer,
and drinking or drink that he
he made himself, and I have no idea what's in it. I have no idea what if it would test positive for anything. Like we are in, like, the fentanyl
days of already writing, we only need to be really careful what we put in our bodies.
Especially with illicit of substances.
But at that point, again, I've had a little taste of relief from depression and
I was...
So I was hopeful that this could be the thing. Right? Like, with mushrooms, I'm like, I don't know if this was gonna work. We'll try
But I've...
In mushrooms and Are very different to totally different chemical structures.
But
I knew that they were the similar class of drugs. So I I was very hopeful that Ayahuasca was
gonna be what helped me. So I had a few ceremonies with that And
that
completely transformed my world and
allowed me to start building
my life back and
I don't think without
Or without that very big
experience was like could alex
I would have gotten there.
But, yeah. That's kind of
what started this whole
entirely trajectory in my life with what I'm doing right now.
It was an it... And it was a miserable experience
it not
a recreational drug by any means they don't rely anyone with just wouldn't wanna take that to get like, to party. It's it's maybe it was, like,
physically
extremely painful.
And
you get...
You vomit, you get diarrhea.
You
cry uncontrollably. You laugh on control. They there's moments when, like you just you just don't know, but it's it's doing something in your body. It's moving your energy around. It's
all that stress and trauma that we store in our body
and we don't know how. But like we store in places, like, and in some people, it's different in me was my gut, like, it was
it all came out of my system, and
I I woke up the next morning, and it wasn't like I woke being like, I am healed. Know. Like...
But
as time went on and those days went on, I started to
observe in, like,
things with shift. Like my perspective would shift on things, and I would
be like, well, well, this is something
that's not good for me and I need to change that. So I slowly started to
change the things in my life that we're not working for me
and until this day, still changing things in my life that are not working for me. And I really do credit dialogue for that. Yeah. I feel like for from... I haven't tried I I feel like it is in my near future,
but I did... I have heard that, you know,
it gave them the opportunity to make some changes
that they were scared to make previously in their and, you know, yeah life prior.
Yeah. I mean, you...
People that deal with depression,
you gets stuck in these loops in these trains of thoughts where you're you're... Keep telling yourself the same story over and over. It's like, you for everyone's different, but for me, is it's like,
you're not worthy of any of this. You don't appreciate the like you are... You've been given every single gift in the world and you're just sq it. You you don't love your children.
Your children will end up presenting you.
So that you get stuck in these loops, and I found that dialogue alaska broke me of that of that line of thinking and, like, it cleared the deck
so that I can
create new narratives about myself.
See that's what I need to do. Yeah. Yeah. It's just really powerful and if you if you do the diet beforehand, and you're really take seriously, you go in there
with an open mind and you're willing... You you understand that this is not gonna be the magic tool for you that it it is on you
to fix your life.
And
you can go into that experience of the open mind. It can be an extremely effective tool. I have heard
people with crazy stories of
walking into an ayahuasca ceremony
and, you know, dealing with debilitating
arthritis and their hands are all cramped up on the like, the fingers all granted up other actually like, they can spread their hands open, like, they're arthritis. And, like, that doesn't like the exception here. Right? Like,
we
still
have so much to learn about these medicines, but also,
the culturally
people in south America Have been doing this for centuries.
So there's something to this. Right if it wasn't working, this wouldn't be a practice that's currently hell today. Yeah. And and that's
pretty much with after that I ayahuasca gun
ceremony,
that you decided, I'm going to work on de decreasing
plant medicine in Dc.
I remember when that was on the ballot? Yes. Yeah.
Is definitely not my first spot at all.
But I was watching One Denver,
and that was the campaign two mushrooms for the city of denver.
And that was going on wow we were going through this process with, like, trying to grow our mushrooms and
sixteen succeeding and then failing and then finding How I walked. And
so being
kinda experiencing in politics,
my husband's worked on a few campaigns as well.
We were like, let's... You know, let's call up the campaign.
Like, you could find anybody on the Internet now. So
we connected to with him over Facebook, and we had a a really good call with him. And just asking like, what are
the noncitizens of Denver saying?
About this, like, what is law enforcement saying about this? When, you know, what what are what are your marketing materials? How are you talking about this in general public?
And,
you know, for us, we were just, like, curious
about
what our impact could be.
I think initially, we were
thinking of just utilizing
the our network
of political people
to just
educate, I guess, you know, we never... I've never wanted to be
a front person for anything
I was always really uncomfortable with attention.
I assumed
that my husband would be the one that has, like, this amazing career and, like, things would take off for him
because I mean, he was perfectly positioned to do that. He's worked for a politician for
So
it it it wasn't like, oh, I'm gonna be the spokesperson
for women everywhere who healed us themselves It was more like
Okay. We have we had this conversation in this conversation led to a connection with other people, and let's let's go have conversations with them too. And see how we can help.
So it was really just like connecting the dots as you go, like, driving and pitch black and, like, all you can see is, like, the next
step. Yeah.
But we kept taking more meetings, and then eventually,
We got connected to Doctor Bronzer folks in Dc. And so Doctor Bronzer is this
hippie show company that has all natural ingredients say I use work. Oh, yeah. Please use it for like, probably years. Yeah. Yeah that's. Amazing.
I love the peppermint. My favorite
in the cherry blossom there my
jam. Yeah. Yeah. So
I was like, oh, I know Doctor Bronzer, but like I didn't realize that they
ran to this. Oh, no. Yeah. Like, so they were... They've been really pivotal
pivotal and getting cannabis reform through. They were very active in Have form.
They... You know, David Bronzer puts
a lot of money into causes that he really cares about. A lot of that is regenerative farming and drug laws.
They were the ones sponsoring the Denver campaign. And
David is is pretty politically sorry he's got a team of people here
that he pays to be their, like, social activation team, like, they will put together a protest
or they will try to engage Dc council on this shoes
that are important to them.
Anyway, they
they were talking to dave the team here and David were talking and
they were, like, we if we could do this in Dc Dc is was it the forefront of canada your reform? Why wouldn't it
we be at the forefront front of Second reform. Mhmm.
But they knew that the campaign couldn't be run
by Cannabis folks.
Because it's a very different kind of subject matter. And I go at the time, carried
ton stigma I think cannabis is
rich away a few of those fears already.
But
they were talking to Kevin
Matthew is the guy in Denver who we who got us or start,
and Kevin was like,
you need to talk to a couple that morris and daniel
Excuse me.
They...
You just need to chat with them. So like you didn't say much about us. But then
the team here started to
go on Facebook and look us up and
turns out
they had already... They already knew my husband through his time at Stacy Council, and when they were working on cannabis reform for the city,
So they had my husband's
cell phone number
already, which was
extremely fortunate.
And at this point in time, we've connected enough dots and I like, I had identified key people in the city that, you know, if we were to do something,
This is her who you'll do work with And one of those guys of adam manager.
Who is
the Cannabis guy in Dc,
So my husband
sends me tax message, and he's like, I guess who I just talked to.
Could. You should be anyone.
He's like I'm a manager. They wanna take a dinner white talk about I know. I was like, let's
interesting.
So,
again, not really thinking that I would be running a campaign, but
we
we went out to dinner. I shared the experience that we went through and what we did,
and they were like you are the perfect person to, like,
spear a campaign. And just be the face
of
healing in Psychedelics through City, Dc.
And I was like, you were in shade not never
that campaign pain and I dana it. I know It was they was true I was convinced that, like,
they had taken crazy pills because like, I was... I was never that person.
Even speaking in public was terrifying to me. I was so cool with just being in the background.
No That's crazy. Yeah. But
so we had a back of we year a few months back and forth about doing this campaign. And I was like,
or...
You know, they got to a point where, like, we wanted to get on the general election ballot, like, the big
presidential ballot you can get way more of voter turnout out. Which increases your likelihood success,
And they tied time debt where they were, like, December of twenty nineteen was, like, the last
opportunity to
get the paperwork to the border of election so that everything can get approved in time and that we have time to get signatures and submit everything to get on the general election about it.
So we have been going back and forth with them and
it was then, like, trying to convince just do this, and we're, like, no No. No. Will help in the background. So I like, we're not gonna do this. So then Adam calls me and he's like, you know, I
like, you know where I stand on this? I think you should do this, but I completely understand if you don't wanna do this.
And I was just like, I can't. I can't guarantee
my children's safety in this situation,
like, at the time, nobody was talking about mental health. Nobody was talking Psychedelics.
I didn't know what was going to be said about me, or was gonna be sent about us.
I didn't know if they were gonna not get invited to kids parties from school anymore, like, with all the moms of school, like, just completely turn away from me and, like, think I'm some weirdo
like drug person that is just you know,
abusing my children and, like, having drugs in our house and feeling dangerous. I I had to like, go through that process. Like, figure out what was a worst case scenario.
And
I don't know this phone when it we went to bed and I was waiting and pen out she should so upset, and I like, you should feel good about the sister.
You know? Like, you got
the thing of the hanging over your head for a few months, like, you don't wanna do it. We we can't guarantee
what's gonna happen to our family.
But, like
why you upset I was like, I feel like this is opportunity.
The the last thing that Adam said, he was like, if you don't do this queue, if you don't wanna submit this paperwork like, we're gonna go ahead and do it anyway.
So
I knew that if I wasn't involved in the campaign that it would look drastically different
than what the campaign that would be run by me would look like. And the messaging would be different. And I don't know if it would worked.
The cannabis activist god bless them or are loud and,
you know, very open about their use cannabis
and
that is
that ten. That strategy can be really divisive with certain corners of politics.
And
I knew that
you get one shot at a first impression
and it's same with this issue.
Same with anything. You have one shot to make your big sl on public,
Did I want it to be a big loud campaign that was really colorful and, like,
you know, in your face or
with a campaign that was run by a working mother
that was blood with compassion and with back and science and
experience and experience and personal experience with, you know, and and
extending
compassion to others and being open and honest about what I have gone through and what is wrong with our system.
How would that look? And I just had a feeling in my gut that if I was running this campaign that it would be successful
because
people would hear me.
And in my mind just like, well, if I
a person who, you know, how to support a family
had, you know,
no trauma in my life that was my truly super notable.
If if I was that close to taking my life being the well resource person that I am Being a very privileged person that I am very fortunate to have the life that I had.
If I was that close to suicide,
how what is this experience like, for other people,
you know, that don't have the resources that I have.
That, you know, don't have a spouse so that's really supportive or, you know, have parents that they can fall back on.
So
I knew that I had a feeling that this issue was much bigger than
than what it what we were hearing
from society.
And
I knew that if I was... I took a chance
And I said, if I'm just opening and honest, hopefully, people will be receptive to that. And
understand why I took the rest that I did,
and
maybe they will that make them feel compelled to take action and
you know, demand that our governments
take this issue seriously
and past laws that support people that are dealing with these kind of issues.
So
the very next morning, I woke up I call it
and I said, okay.
I'm gonna do this campaign. He got so excited.
So I'm calling the attorneys right now. We're gonna draft up all the paperwork. And we're gonna go board elections today the last day. Oh my gosh.
So we submitted it on the very last day, and it was... I remember just seeing, like, my address on official, like vaglio initiative paperwork, and I was, like, holy shit. This is very real like this could totally blow up in my face.
But in my mind, like, I went through what the worst case scenario is, Like, we're banished from society. We are marked as the weird people. We have our scarlet letters on us.
And,
you know, and I told my husband are was, like, if that happens, we can just pick up in move if we've been in Dc for twenty years. We've navigated
through, you know, two recessions now,
you know, we've we've had really... We have really great work experience that we could just take somewhere else and no one will know who we are, and we can just start over. So that was my compilation prize like, okay. There's... It's not the been of the world. If this doesn't work out,
at least I have my house. You know? At least I feel like I've got my life back
I can go and take what I've learned from this experience. Just so not gonna live some tomorrow and let peacefully,
But, again, you plan and God.
Yeah
So we...
After we submitted the paperwork,
we were about to get on a road trip to
south where our families live.
We were going to Alabama for Christmas.
And I think that whole right home we're were just kind of like,
oh, shit. What did we just do? Like what what is our life, like, we we were like, because as soon as we got back from the holidays,
I was kicking off the camp officially. So I knew and after the holidays was through our life was forever change
in one way or another.
And
like, we they didn't really talk about it with his parents.
I never talked about this with my parents, they are not, like,
they were... My parents are very cool in many regards, especially from, like, their immigrants. So, usually, parents or immigrants are, like, super duper abstract and
I'm very protective of their children, like, they risk so much to create a new life in the Us for their children. And my parents are pretty cool about things, but this
No. No. It. They would have
been like, most you can't do this campaign
and I really think this will be a career or career killer for you. And,
you know, you've got two graduate degrees and you you're wasting your career on something like this. And what's the point of doing this? Like, they wouldn't have understood this and no. So I didn't talk to anybody about it. I only talked to my husband about it.
I talked to a few people
that worked at Dc council off the record, and,
you know, some them, like,
this could be successful, but I don't know. You know, it depends on how the campaign goes. You know?
But it was
It was definitely like, we we were walking into the unknown when we were getting back from the holidays. And
but it was... It was it was a crazy experience. You know? Like, twenty twenty was a crazy year for me. I mean, for everyone but I
yeah
how did I sign up? For. Yeah. But also,
probably one of the of the best year of my life. Like, I will never forget that because it shifted everything for me in a completely new direction.
And
I I do feel like I found my voice, and
a lot of these things that you just scare me, like, public speaking and
you know, being on camera,
you know, having, like, fifteen minutes the same. It was just like,
having the spotlight on me
was okay suddenly because
it was so
above and beyond any hang I have, You know, like Oh, I hate some my voice or. I I hate the how I look on Camera. Like, I I
overcame all of that because I knew
this issue is far too important
than to be concerned with something so trivial.
Yeah. My voice or how I look in. Right now.
So I got over a a lot of things and I got a lot of confidence back in twenty twenty
because, you know, recovering from depression is process.
There's not, like, one moment in time. You're like, oh, I'm not depressed anymore. It's like,
very long artist's process. Like, I'd still something I work on to this day.
It's a daily practice for me.
It it involves, like, being active and and having my diet in track. I definitely, like,
don't do it perfectly all the time it took you a while to get to this point even just because a lot of my time post depression has been in campaign you're running a a very new organization in a
an marketing industry. And
now it's it's like this is my next phase of healing really is
putting in into a daily practice and creating a system that works for me so that I'm never in that situation again.
Because, like, one thing that has linger is is anxiety, but I was managing it through, like,
completely diving into my work.
But then, like, in my idle times, it's like, I would sit my brain, would she'll be running, like, a hundred and miles hour because when... I was writing a campaign while working full time too.
So that was like a crazy.
What did they think about you doing this? You know, how does it was it's Dc government? Yeah. Yeah using our very small. So at the time,
that all this is happening Also changed jobs, and I went from being at The Hobbit city Hall.
To being in
in an agency. So I was... I was protected by a few layers of people and also
I wasn't going to the office every day. When I wasn't seeing right having.
I
I had this amazing cover where, like, we
I wasn't going to office. We're all behind
Zoom and
teams
and
you know, it it never...
I made sure that it never deserved my work,
which means I was working around the clock.
I never missed a deadline. I... You know, I I ensure that
my day job was good, and everything was taken care of.
Before I did anything with the campaign.
So
because I knew that if the moment that I would slip up at work, that would be... Then it would be a problem, but if I don't give them it excuse to, you know,
call me out something. And on my work product is good. Like, I that gives me good enough cover. So
I was really fortunate with the timing of all this,
even though running a campaign
with not having, especially a vaglio campaign where you need to get physical signatures by people. Yeah.
Like, that one of money in twenty twenty
right. And that was
sticky waters navigate through for sure. And we had to change Dc laws so that we didn't have to collection signature you're in person.
That you could send the balance to people's homes.
So we had to...
We have to kinda like, weather a period of time
that we didn't know if the campaign was gonna continue. Like, we kicked it off and it was going amazing and well, we even shifted it online started doing whatever we need to do Facebook ads, Instagram, town halls. We did it all online.
And the campaign was going well, but then we had this issue of actually getting signatures
that we didn't know how removed get through it. So
I had to
very patiently wait while Dc council was putting together multiple emergency
legislation packages to make sure, like, things don't just explain
completely explode in the city.
So, like,
you know, protecting health care workers and making sure there's supplies. Like, I remember, like, I felt like, I had to wait for my right time to make our ask because, like, we're just so a bow initiative of campaign about psychedelic drugs. Like, it's...
I I knew that it was not a top priority for Dc to change their laws to adapt to our campaign.
But we got some laws changes in the third round of emergency legislation on the last by basic council that allowed us
for somebody to self certify.
So when you have...
When you're doing a about of campaign, you get signatures and you have somebody that gather or signatures,
and they witness
the person signing that it's actually them and not fraud as somebody just signing names for people.
So there's a, like, Affidavit and everything.
So we to change laws
so that a person can self certify that they've witness their own signature.
So it's like kind of crazy, if we to change the form, and
and my argument was, like, we can't let our democracy die
in the middle of a public health emergency. Like, this is the foundation of everything that we're doing right, You know, the government unless continue.
And, you know, there's elements of our democracy that must continue,
otherwise
we're not a free country and it actually works. So I, it was like the the argument made sense to does they again. Yeah. Yeah.
So
Yeah. After that, we were
off the races.
Yeah. And you led the most
successful
vaglio initiative. Yeah. In the history
of
Dc,
Yeah. I mean,
you know, seventy six percent, that's crazy. Yeah. And now you are the political face at Seasons. Right? Yeah.
In front of psychedelic you are just... Yeah. Yeah. So
we won the campaign by seventy six percent.
I truly think it was because
I'm not too my own horn here, but, like, what it was take your horn.
It was very much like a regular person's story. You know? And I could I am a regular for some story.
It's funny as like the... At one point, I would have, like, news crews at our house and, like, this entire crazy set with cameras lights and all this.
And then Netflix was obviously filming parts in our campaign for I was in how to change your mind. Yeah. I watched that
like I knew.
And I did read. You had a a a wonderful piece. There is wonderful piece written about you in the watch Tony and too. I really enjoyed reading that. Yeah. That was probably one of my the most favorite things out the campaign paint was
the most normal psychedelic metallic ask ever. Yeah. Like
it it was funny to me. It's like I can't play it. And it's weird because on one hand, I would have a
I remember it
the day after the campaign, I was written up in high time magazine
in the Wall Street Journal. And I was like,
This is such a strange
dichotomy right where, like, I'm my name is in the Street journal, but also in high times, which is like an iconic cannabis magazine.
But,
yeah, it was a weird moment like, what is my life. Like, what am I doing? What am I gonna do with us? Like... I got... I accomplice this major thing,
and we educated so many Dc evidence about
checking all drugs and
you know,
what's wrong with our health care system and what's happening with these medicines. And,
you know, I wanted to do something with the I felt like this is an opportunity.
And like I just couldn't go back to my old job. You know? I know you eat I mean, you are now the say of a movement. And, you know, that you you now are connected to... With, you know, you just had a briefing last week. Yeah. Wow. It's just with the things that you're doing. Mhmm. It's just amazing. Yeah. You. That's really, like,all that is very much not about, like, what I personally want to accomplice. But is very much like, what is the need for this... These medicines to get into the hands of American people and the safest way possible in the most affordable way possible. And I truly think that this federal advocacy piece has been the one piece that was missing prior to me.
Creating second Medicine coalition. There was no organizing body kind of creating the strategic pathway forward for Psychedelic federal policy. I had watched cannabis reform just having the policy background that I have and just seeing how that distorted effort was like, the states were progressing, like, rapid fire, and then the federal government was you know, left behind. I mean, they're they were really left behind, but I think that Canvas industry was so, excited about the progress of was b managed shaped I a lot of focus went there, And then there wasn't an effort to organize the voices and cannabis reform for the federal government. And
like I said, you get one shot to make it for suppression. So the first impression with cannabis was that there the the obvious flooded the gates and the the quote industry didn't come together and have consensus building. It was very throat, and a lot of what could have been amazing small businesses or small growers, you know, thrive. It was kinda just like corporate cannabis to Them and left the little main behind. And also, there's this huge criminal justice issue that continues to go undergrad.
With the disproportionate amount of black man that are still in prison for cannabis events as well.
People can run to a dispensary and writing, get their cannabis so, like there's a lot of holes in the in the policy space that that never were really addressed so now. You know,
in congress and mind like, well, we're gonna states do what they want.
And
we're
we're not gonna... I'm not gonna hang my hat. There's not a very few... Until recently, there's been very few
senators and representatives I've willing to hang their head on Cannabis. So
seeing that, and then knowing what the space like, a lot of the culture is like,
addition to the West Coast, and it's very much like a West Coast cultural thing.
Which is why I think there was a lot of excitement about the Dc campaign doing so. Well. Mhmm.
But I knew that for this issue to be can have an impact on congress and actually, like, change laws that supported people having safe to affordable access. I knew that I needed to create an association that represents
the entire movement because the sensations are really powerful. This like, yeah That there here you go. There's one association that's been extremely effective in getting
laws that benefit their members. Right? There's a reason why they have offices over on the capital, and they're very they work side by side. They are the go between switching industry and lawmakers, and they do kind of synthesize his eyes what what really needs to make it through and what doesn't it?
And really strategize on on on the path forward. So I created Check medicine coalition,
and we launched it in January twenty twenty one. And we immediately realized that,
like, before we ask for anything, like, we need to educate members of congress. There is very little knowledge
about the potential psychedelic could medicine on a federal level. So since then, we have... I created over two hundred and fifty offices on the hill.
We've done two briefings now. Our most recent one was last week, where we had Tim Far zooming in
with Rick Wo who's executive director maps who's taking Md through clinical trial Fda. Yeah. Who's been who's been up pioneer and doing this for, like, thirty seven years.
Doing it all with answering, no investors. He's got a public benefit corporation that's doing it because he really does want this to be something that the public can benefit from and not an investment play.
So, you know, we are here to really be a conduit for the psychedelic space.
To speak to their federal government and work with them. On addressing a lot of the issues that will need to be addressed. So we have multiple and clinical trial right now. We have May that's not to be approved
psilocybin compass path just city you so excited through Fda clinical trial, though they will be approved probably a year or two after I'm the is approved. This is going to be a part of our system. Absolutely. But
what will just look like and it's not a drug that you can just say this is approved, let's send it to offices so that
doctors can give it to their patients. It's not a traditional pharmaceutical point. This requires, at least a protocol for Md requires to two practitioners in the room at the same time.
Sixteen hours prior to your first treatment with, I believe that there's three that you get, and then there's sixty hours after So this is a huge time commitment to just get one patient through one session with.
And our system quite frankly can't handle that. Like, we barely have enough therapist
for people a lot of this work is is not reversible, so people don't wanna do it. You have to pay on a pocket for it. Yeah. Problem. There's a huge lot in therapist color that can speak to different demographics of people if we've got people that are dealing with racial trauma, they do not wanna go to a therapist that looks like somebody that happens like did in racial terms then, like, it has it, it's you're so vulnerable in these moments and the things that you're dealing with are so deep, that, you know, you you you gotta ensure that somebody's comfortable or otherwise, it gonna be a really bad experience it can like, negative effects on somebody so and even be handled with care. Yeah. Well... Absolutely. This is a completely different paradigm that we're trying to insert in our very rigid health care system. That does not have a mind body connection angle to it at all.
Yeah. It is it's there's a lot that we need to address and, you know, our coalition can be really effective in doing that with bringing people together and getting getting the policymakers makers to understand that this is
not a political bomb that you're taking on. This isn't gonna be brought up in your reelection campaign because that's really what they care about when they're name congress, But ultimately, they're a politician and they you know. They have to cater to their voters. Yeah.
So they are very concerned with getting behind issues that would impact them negatively. And you know, it's just figuring out what they care about and what they've got through in life and, like, finding a way to wedge a story related to In there, you know? And the the first, like, crew to lead the charge in this our veteran. Mhmm. And I think everyone is kind of understanding that, you know, if we could bring to pull our opposite on a political structure together on this issue. This can be really effective and powerful. Like, the one thing that people on the hill have been bipartisan about is Psychedelic medicine.
So veterans are a very specific demographic. They garner a lot of compassion. They've sacrificed a lot for our country, and they've really been dealing with like, a terrible situation with the Mental health swore. Right?
not even in more times, but, like, there's issues that people in the military deal with, like, we had Whiz Buckley who is exactly director of a foundation called No Fallen heroes. Use was a top gun pilot, and
he was at the briefing last week. And he was sharing that, like, his issues didn't come from Combat.
None of them did. It was just the nature of the work, and trying to be in a plane where you're dealing with like multiple g forces and then landing the plane and the noise and the fact that he he constantly hears a noise in his ear to this day, You know, there's the the nature of the workers is so different. So intense that
if we're not addressing any of these issues, Like, I think the military gonna have, like, a... I mean, I think they do have a recruitment problem. But, you know, how effective can they be as an organization if the soldiers aren't well. And that that's that brings together two different angles with the political spectrum. Absolutely.
Lorilee Binstock:
Well, I think your story is also something that's extremely important because you are completely fine isn't before you became a mother they're... And and for women, and I think it's also hard for them to really want to dive into
psychedelics.
I know that there are a lot of articles now coming out that, like, a long mushrooms Yeah. Or, you know,
which I think is great. Because I I also micro and it very effective for me, but I think your story
This is a LIVE replay of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast which aired Wednesday, March 8th, 2023 at 1130am ET on Fireside Chat.
Today’s guest is Christine MacDonald, Author of the memoir, Face Value, From Stripper Pole to Baring My Soul.
Lorilee Binstock 00:00:38 Welcome. I'm Lorilee Binstock and this is A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast.Thank you so much for joining me live on Fireside chat where you can be a part of the conversation as my virtual audience.I am your host glory been stock. Everyone has an opportunity to ask me or our guest questions by requesting to hop on stage or sending a message in the chat box. I will try to get to you, but I do ask that everyone be respectful.Today's guest is Christine Macdonald's author of the book Face Value: From Stripper Pole to Baring my Soul, which actuallycomes out two today, And you could actually, if you are interested that scrolling fortune cookie right there in the middle of your screen, that will take you to purchase her book. Christine, thank you so much for joining me today.Christine Macdonald 00:01:43 Oh, I'm so happy to be here. Can you hear me?Lorilee Binstock 00:01:45 I can hear you perfectly.Thank you so much.Christine Macdonald 00:01:48 Yeah. Thank you.Lorilee Binstock 00:01:49 So II wanted to get to to it because I feel like there's so much to coverwith your story.You have struggled a lotwith trauma as a child, which eventually led you into the adulthood repayment industry.I just wanna to know if you could just share journey a little bit with us.Christine Macdonald 00:02:08 Oh, I'm happy too. And you're right. There's there's a whole bunch of... It's like wheel Fortune named named that trauma. But here's... But here's the thing. Don't we all havesomething in our lives? And, of course, it's not a contest. Right? So every single one of us, I'm of the belief that we're all in recovery from something. And, of course, more,Lorilee Binstock 00:02:20 Mhmm.Christine Macdonald 00:02:29 you know, there are some people who have a a harder journey, But, yes, I've hadsome several traumas as a child. It really just compoundedmy choices that I made as a young adult, so I started outthe the trauma really started when I was at age thirteen,and Ijust justyou know, thirteen is such a tender age as it is. Right? I mean, you're a freshman in high schoolandLorilee Binstock 00:02:56 Hormones.Christine Macdonald 00:02:58 exact. And so all of a sudden, and I started noticingthese bigblood filled cysts all over my face, my chest, my back,Lorilee Binstock 00:03:06 Well.Christine Macdonald 00:03:07 And I didn't know what was going on. And I I just kepttelling my mom. This is... I don't think this is normal ask me. And, you know, God loved my mom. She just was, like, hoping it would just go away. And it didn't. So we ended up meeting to see a doctor.It turns out my diagnosiswasis very, veryrare. It's called Acne Michelangelo.And basically, you're it's a very severesevere form of cystic acne wherenormal topical solutions that this is not part of the remedy for this case.So I started seeing the doctor, andbut it was too late at that point. The scars were left,and long stars short,Lorilee Binstock 00:03:47 Mhmm.Christine Macdonald 00:03:49 you know, they called me Freddie Krueger in high school. They were mer,Lorilee Binstock 00:03:51 Yeah.Christine Macdonald 00:03:52 and it was just one of those things where my valuewas,you know, as all of ours, I think when they're at at that young and impression age, my value was just really predicated on how people thought of me. And sowhen people started calling me, you know, moon face, pizza face, Freddie Kruger, my self esteem just plummeted.Lorilee Binstock 00:04:13 MhmmChristine Macdonald 00:04:13 And so on top of that,II reached out to any substances like could fine. And it if it was the eighties. So, you know, cocaine was the glamour drug. And so that sort of just compounded the trauma with living with thisdisease all over my skin and my body.And thenI was sexually abused at that same year at thirteen.But I was so warped with my thinking that I I really truly thought it meant I was pretty,Like, somebodyLorilee Binstock 00:04:43 Mhmm.Christine Macdonald 00:04:44 somebody taking my virginity, somebodywas giving me attention sexually,even though my face was you know, covered in these blood filled says purple golf ball size that would break open in my sleep.Lorilee Binstock 00:04:57 Mhmm.Christine Macdonald 00:04:58 So it was just a whole little. I mean, it was definitelywas definitely a lot,butit... It's interesting. I mean... And I think you can attest to this. When you suffer,it trauma and, you know, you can add to that verbal and physical abusein the house.Lorilee Binstock 00:05:16 Yeah.Christine Macdonald 00:05:17 It's just it really it shapes your choices as a young adult,And that's where I fell into the stripping world because,you know, along the heels of being called Freddie Krueger, I was nineteen years old when I was asked to do a wet t contest.So I walked into this world in Waikiki key. Right, which is such a just position because it's like,Lorilee Binstock 00:05:37 YeahChristine Macdonald 00:05:38 supposed to be paradise, and I'm I'm going through all this darkness, but I foundmy beauty onstage stagebecause I took somebody giving me a dollar billis a validation that I was pretty much like this sexual abuse was validation that I was pretty. So that's sort of the journey, and that's what I talk about in the book. And really, it's about how I got out of it. How I pulled myself out of that world afterLorilee Binstock 00:05:52 Mhmm.Christine Macdonald 00:06:02 a near decade of trying to find myself worth.Very long winded did answer sure for the first question?Lorilee Binstock 00:06:07 No. No. It's great. You could keep going on.Christine Macdonald 00:06:10 Yeah.Lorilee Binstock 00:06:10 But I do... You know, itkids are horrible. Teenagers are can be sohorrible. I remember as a in middle school. I I had horrible teeth, my teeth actuallyI had teeth growing behind my teeth because my mouth was so small and so crowded. And I remember the throwing, and I tell the story a lot.I remember throwing, like,an m and m and catching it in my mouth. And I guess my mouth was open and tilted back where everyone could see, like, anotherlike, more teeth behind my regular teeth and they were... They they started calling me sharks teeth for the longest time.Christine Macdonald 00:06:41 Mhmm.Oh, and that's yeah.Lorilee Binstock 00:06:45 And that's reallyit's hard. It's hardbecause kids can be ruthless when it comes toto, you know, making fun of people because they're insecure too. Teenagers are very insecure people,Christine Macdonald 00:06:58 Mhmm. Mhmm.Lorilee Binstock 00:06:59 and they don't understand that, you know, the reason why they're making fun of other people can their own they have their own issues that they they're too scared to deal with.Christine Macdonald 00:07:09 So true. No true.Lorilee Binstock 00:07:09 But I...Yeah.I I find it interesting to but, you know, when you are sexually abused, did you... So you... Your you're thinking was work you mentioned.Christine Macdonald 00:07:20 Mhmm.Lorilee Binstock 00:07:20 Butwhen did you realize that that was... That was wrong that that wasthat that was and that wasRape, I guess.Christine Macdonald 00:07:30 It was right. Yeah. Exactly.It's interesting that you say that because I'm talking years decades.I... First of all, I knew something wasn't rightbecauseAfter the incident, I thought he was my boyfriend. I honestly thought he was my boyfriend, which is very sad, but it's very telling of where my mind was at the time.So I became this little st in high school. And this dude was, you know, he was sixteen years old. I was thirteen,and it was just one of those things where I truly thought that Meant was pretty and that he was my boyfriend. So I got a clue pretty early on when the rumors started swirl. And quite honestly, it took meintensive therapy,and I was in my early forties.So that's a long time. Right? I was in my forties, and I finally was able to number one, forgive myself because I felt like,Lorilee Binstock 00:08:15 Yay.Christine Macdonald 00:08:23 I was very confused. I knew there was something not right about it, but I didn't wanna call it rape. And quite honestly, you know, Amy Schumer says this in her book,she talks about something very similar. She was passed out,she was taken advantage of without her consent. So when I share that with my therapist,I felt like, I wasn't...Like, I didn't qualify if that makes sense. You know what I mean? Like, when people when people think rates, they think it's a brutal attack and and all of these things, I I was passed out and I was thirteen, and I woke up, andLorilee Binstock 00:08:48 Mhmm.Christine Macdonald 00:08:58 I didn't have anything on my bottoms, and it was a it was a beach penny pat camp. I mean, you can't get more hawaiian than that right?So let's could Pat camp.My bathing suit was rolled up in a ball. It had blood on it. So I knew something was up, but it took so long for me to really wrap my head around the fact that, yeah, It was great, and it's okay.Lorilee Binstock 00:09:14 Mhmm.Christine Macdonald 00:09:21 I mean, the rake wasn't okay, but it's okay that it happened. It wasn't my fault.Lorilee Binstock 00:09:23 Right.Christine Macdonald 00:09:27 So a lot of insight with sarahtruly understand, and then also forgive myselfand then forgive to forgive this person.Lorilee Binstock 00:09:33 Yeah.Christine Macdonald 00:09:36 You know, it it wasn't a violent attack, but it just definitely was something that changed the course of my life.Lorilee Binstock 00:09:43 So... And then when you went to, you said at nineteen, you're asked to do this. What t shirt contest.Christine Macdonald 00:09:49 Mhmm.Lorilee Binstock 00:09:50 And this waswhat was that feeling when you were asked?And when you eventually... You you did it. I'm assuming.Christine Macdonald 00:09:57 Yes. I did it. And, you know, it's interesting because I was with one of mygirlfriends, and she's in the book prominently, And it's a funny funny way how we met, and I won't spoil it for you, But she she she was the other woman. I found her information and who I thought was my boyfriend, You can see the theme here.Lorilee Binstock 00:10:15 YeahChristine Macdonald 00:10:15 Very toxic partner,he was ten years older than I was. He was a drug dealer. I mean, all sorts of bad news, which, of course, I was completely attracted to.Lorilee Binstock 00:10:25 yeah.Christine Macdonald 00:10:26 But I found this women'sinformation in his things, and so I just picked up the phone and called her and said, look, I don't know if you know this. But I'm with this guy, and then she said, oh, oh my god. I had no idea anyway, Long story short her and I became girlfriends. She is be beautiful. And and,Lorilee Binstock 00:10:41 Mhmm.Christine Macdonald 00:10:44 you know, one of those Barbie doll looking girls that are just so natural,not like fake plaster Barbie, but I'm talking, like, the quintessential Christie brink over time. You know?Lorilee Binstock 00:10:54 Mhmm.Christine Macdonald 00:10:54 And so her and I work together on the beachAnd, you know, we were young. We had rock and bodies, but she was the... She was the beauty queen. Right? And I did not feellike, I was approached because of me. I was supposed to be... We were both approached because of her. And so she basically told the gentleman who was recruiting women for these what teacher contests.She'll... She says, I'll do it if my girlfriend can do it, and that that was me. She says she's a great answer.Which is true.Soso the way that I felt when I was on that stage, and, of course, you know, substances were involved. So that's alwayssomething that I... Yeah. Exactly.Lorilee Binstock 00:11:32 Makes it easier.Christine Macdonald 00:11:35 The way I felt onstage stage with my big bond Jo Bush live nineteen eighty seven here in my gold eye shadowLorilee Binstock 00:11:41 Mhmm.Christine Macdonald 00:11:41 for the fur for the first time ever.I felt beautiful.I felt like I was hiding in plain sight, meaning my face was exposed, but it was it was just covered in in all of this eighties hair.But truly, that dollar that people were giving me on stage was so validatingand just a big, like,look at who's Freddie Krueger now? You know what I mean? Like, just three years just three years earlier,Lorilee Binstock 00:12:05 Yeah.Christine Macdonald 00:12:07 I was cutting school because I was so tormented.So I felt nothing but validation and power and beautiful.Lorilee Binstock 00:12:15 So and this was your par intointo the adult entertainment world or how how did how did youstart your career in that in adult entertainment.Christine Macdonald 00:12:27 Well,ironically, you know if I won the contest, which wasLorilee Binstock 00:12:31 Mhmm.Christine Macdonald 00:12:31 real,and I was offered a job at this chocolate bar now in Waikiki Key,back then I can't speak to the scene now, but that then the agewhere you could dis disprove. It was a top of bar was twenty one. So I bikini danced until I was twenty one. And by the timeIyou know, by the time I had my twenty first they. I was sowith it. It was like, no big deal to take my top off. And then the next day,I had some customers say, well, now that you're twenty one, you could make make even more money if you go up the street to the nude bar. And so I was just full Throttle all the way through.You know? And I loved it. I loved every minute of it.Lorilee Binstock 00:13:15 Did you experience any traumaduring your career as an an adult entertainer?Christine Macdonald 00:13:21 I did. I did and mostly drug related mostly with menAnd I would have to say, of course, I don't, you know, I don't subscribe to thethe idea that I deserved it. But my choices weredefinitelya part of that. I chose very toxic partners,the drugs and all of that. So the trauma was sort of a revolving door, hamster wheelof you know, it's interesting the j where you feel so powerful and beautiful.But at the same time, you're you're... And for me personally, I can't speak to other dancers answers, but I felt beautiful and powerful, but it was stripping my beauty away little by little. If that makes sense.Lorilee Binstock 00:13:54 Mhmm.Did you think of that at the time though?Christine Macdonald 00:14:06 No.No. I I didn't. Only when I was writing my story, I was like, oh, man. I wanna give back a little girl hug.Lorilee Binstock 00:14:07 Right. Yeah.Oh, garrett. I mean,trauma really just builds on trauma. You're not healing it. Right? It's you know, it just... Like you said the substances is andChristine Macdonald 00:14:20 Exactly.Lorilee Binstock 00:14:23 the coping that you... And typically, it's malauntil you realize it.When did you become aware? What when did you decide to get out of the adult entertainment industry?Christine Macdonald 00:14:36 Great question. I was in my late twenties,and you know, when you're in youryou know, when you're facing the barrel of thirty,and you think you're getting so old. You're, like, oh my gosh. I'm gonna be thirty.Lorilee Binstock 00:14:48 Mhmm.Christine Macdonald 00:14:50 So II I can't you know, I don't understand the lifeline of when people go to college. You know, the norm the people that do it the right way. Right? So here I am and my, my college really was the stripping years,And I recall being sober burnt out, and this is in the book. There's a chapter called voluntarytermination that I'm very proud of, and it really goes and explains step by stephow I came to the realization,and it was very, veryquiet.It was very simple,And I was in the dressing room. I was twenty,I would say late twentiesand I And I it was very heavy on my mind thinking. Oh my gosh. I'm am I gonna be a senior citizen on the poll? Because, of course, when you're thirty, you think you're a senior head.So I'm right. It's so I'm looking in mirror, and... And I'm using my foundation and I'm covering my skin and I'm, you know, I've always had this relationship with my skinLorilee Binstock 00:15:37 No goodness.Christine Macdonald 00:15:48 where I have for decades try to pretend my scars did not exist. But nowas I'm older, I embrace my scars because they're part of who I am and I always say your flaws are your flavor.So anything that you feel embarrassed about or that you've been teased about, those things make up who you are, they're part of your flavor. SoLorilee Binstock 00:16:10 Mhmm.Christine Macdonald 00:16:11 embrace them. But back then, I didn't... I wasn't there yet. So here I am in the dressing arm. Time of grows behind me the collected clerk of their heels,and the buzz you know, all the buzz of the girls. I don't know if you've been around aa bunch of high girls, but they're like, birds.A squat. You know, they're coffee.Lorilee Binstock 00:16:29 Oh my gosh. That's hilarious.Christine Macdonald 00:16:32 Yeah. And so they're like.So I'm I'm trying to focus on putting my makeup on. I'm kinda tuning out the girls behind me. I am really hung over as per usual. That was just another day ending and why. Right? So I'm putting my makeup onand something just hit me, and I thought,okay. And I'm looking in my eyes.I see no blue. It's all gray.AndIsaw myself,like, wow. You're almost thirty. What you gonna do with your life? You don't have a college education.Dropped out because you couldn't handle the hours because I was party girl. Right? And then at that very moment, when I connected with my eyes, I see a brand new girl who I've neverseen before, come into the dressing room, and she was probably nineteen.Lorilee Binstock 00:17:19 Mhmm.Christine Macdonald 00:17:19 AndI looked at her, and I saw myself in her, and I thoughtgod, I wanna just hug her and tell hersave your money. I'm not gonna judge you. I'm not gonna tell you not to do this, but I wanna tell you to save your money, stay off the drugs,have a good head on your shoulders, but I didn't. I stayed in my own lane,but just seeing that girlhad me flashback of the near decade career that I had. And sowithout even realizing it, I started putting my makeup back in my bag and lift it up,sp my bounce over my shoulders, stood up and looked in the mirror and said out loud to myself, I think you're done.Lorilee Binstock 00:17:57 Oh, wow.Christine Macdonald 00:17:58 And that I just walked out and looks for a pay phone.There was no Internet herself the back.What's for a pay phone called my mom, who I was estranged with at the time.And god lover, she... I basically said what are you doing? And I was almost crying because I was so scared,and I did know what my life gonna be... But I, of course, wanted my mommy.Lorilee Binstock 00:18:20 Mhmm.Christine Macdonald 00:18:20 And so I called her up, and I said, what are you doing? And she I'm cooking dinner, Do you wanna come over? And I was sograteful for that because I did. I went over to her house, and my sister had just had a baby so she was holding her newborn.My mom was cooking spaghetti. So soon as a friend are open, I just... I was welcomed by thatamazing smell of home. You know?Lorilee Binstock 00:18:42 MhmmChristine Macdonald 00:18:42 And I remember looking at my sister, and I remember being at my mom's house and thinking, wow, Just an hour earlier, I was around naked.High girlstalking. Like, you know what I mean? And I thought this is real life. This is what I want. And at that moment, I just asked my mom I need to move home. I need to save up money because I'm gonna get off this island and find a new life.Lorilee Binstock 00:19:04 Wow.Oh, so, you grew up in Hawaii until your moment not far from where you were were dancing.Christine Macdonald 00:19:07 Yes.Correct. Yeah. And then, unfortunately, she... I was such a nightmareaddictthat she... I mean, I I'm I'm not a parent. So I can't even imagine.She just... I I don't wanna say gave up, but she was justthere was nothing she could do. There was no talking to me. She was just like, she's gonna need to find out on her own,Lorilee Binstock 00:19:27 Mhmm.Christine Macdonald 00:19:31 and she prayed that I would come around and, you know, I did, which is great.Lorilee Binstock 00:19:36 And so you found you decided, okay.I'm...That road is not for me anymore.What did you end up doing?Christine Macdonald 00:19:43 Mhmm.I sold all of my belongings. I made the very naivechoice to leave the island, which I don't think is really... It was not a bad decision it's probably the best decision I ever made because I found myselfreally having to grow up. And and I was in my late twenties. SoI always say I lost in a way, a decade of my life because I was using.And so I really left the islandin mentally, like, eighteen years old, nineteen years old because I'd lost so much in my life, but I was in my late twenties,andI just knew that leaving was the bestdecisionand finding new friends and just starting over.But then, you know,couple years later, I realized, oh, you can't run away from your addictions. So that was addressed as well, which is also in the book. But the best decision, the thing that really catapult my change was leaving the island andjust shake it off those those friends that you thought were friends, but they were just your party friends.Lorilee Binstock 00:20:49 So how did you...How did you work with your addiction? When did you realize? Well, it sounds like you're were like, okay. I can't I can't escape this. How did you heal from it? Or how did you break the addiction or break any of these,you know, behavioralcycles?Or actually evenChristine Macdonald 00:21:06 Mhmm.Lorilee Binstock 00:21:08 be beware of the the patterns.Christine Macdonald 00:21:10 Well, interesting question because I thought just leaving the island was enough. And I thought, oh, I'm such a rock. I could walk away from the Coke. I could walk away from the ecstasy and all those other things I was doing, and I was reallysn about it to be honest with you I thought and they rehab. I'm good. I honestly did not think I was an addict untilin my thirties,I had a relapse with prescription drugs,and that's a whole nother animal because in in an addicts mind, do you think Oh, this is from a doctor. I'm fine.And, of course, that doesn't... That's never the case. ButLorilee Binstock 00:21:44 Mhmm.Christine Macdonald 00:21:49 realizing that I was an attic, took be relaxing and being in a detox word for a week.And and reallyunderstanding after going to meetings and things like, oh, yeah. So my party self in my twentiesnever left. I just changed the scenery.Lorilee Binstock 00:22:05 Yep.Christine Macdonald 00:22:05 So getting real with yourself isnot for the faint of heart.Right? You have to take responsibility for your choices, andYeah. Once I... Once I realized that the two were notso different that my party selfjustmanifested in other ways, and then I was able to do the do the work with therapy.Lorilee Binstock 00:22:28 Well so in that time,when you leftthis adult entertainment world, and you were finding yourself,what was happening with yourself worth?Did it make? Did itdid you want to go back to the stripping?How did youmanagedealing with that that feeling offinding yourself worth? And and andChristine Macdonald 00:22:53 Yeah.Lorilee Binstock 00:22:54 needing longing for that helpful.Christine Macdonald 00:22:57 Realizing that the real world wasn't gonna saves me and that the real world was actuallya lot harder than I thought.How did Ihow did I managefor a long time?I didn't... I I still suffered low self steam and that manifested in every single choice of partner I ever dated, and I had a therapist what tell me? I had a therapist one.Lorilee Binstock 00:23:20 Mhmm.Christine Macdonald 00:23:24 If you cut off all the heads of everyone you've ever dated, and I said, let's take a moment to just visualize that because I gotta I kinda like that. But when when this therapist said that to me, she says, they're interchangeable.Lorilee Binstock 00:23:30 YeahChristine Macdonald 00:23:37 You you pick these stricter or upper and then complain that there's no good people out there today. It's because you don't feel like you're worthyof anyone who's good for you. Like, I did not feel Like was worthy of a niceperson. And also, when you grow up, and I think you can attestwhen you grow up with chaos,we subconsciously create chaos because that's home.Lorilee Binstock 00:24:00 Yep.Christine Macdonald 00:24:01 You know, chaos is home. We don't understand when our phone's not blowing up when we don't have any fires to put out when we're not fretLorilee Binstock 00:24:01 Yep.Christine Macdonald 00:24:08 whether the person we're seeing is cheating on us and getting through their phone for answers, all of those things are based on low self esteem.Lorilee Binstock 00:24:16 Mhmm.Christine Macdonald 00:24:16 And I did not realize that at the time. And so I spent the better part of my thirties and fortiesafter I left the stage.Really havingto work on myself esteem. And then I finally got a cluewhen I was just exhausted from being heartbrokenand realizing through therapythat I had more control than I thought.Like, there... It's not that there are no good people there it's just that I'm choosing the onesthat are bad for me because I just didn't feel like I was worse.Anyone better.So that'sLorilee Binstock 00:24:50 Yeah. There's like there's like comfort in the same people that you you datein a way.Christine Macdonald 00:24:54 Exactly. It's a familiaritythatit'sit's hard to shake. It's like a trauma bond. Right?Lorilee Binstock 00:25:01 Mhmm.Christine Macdonald 00:25:02 Yeah.Lorilee Binstock 00:25:04 Did you...So what was it? Was there somethingthat happened because I feel I I'm dealing with this. Constantly now I'm continuously working on feeling like I'm enough.What was it? That did it for you. Was there something that made it click besides her saying you have more control? And I feel like I... I do have control, butI mean, there are days where I'm just like,am I enough, and then I question it.Christine Macdonald 00:25:33 Oh, totally.Hold, totally. It's really a hard net to crack, and it's so embedded into ourour psychebecause, you know, rewirethose parts of our brain, I think, is a lifelong journey, I mean it's truly...It's not easy to do, but the fact that we're aware of it is a huge plus. Right? Like, we know our intellect I always say that my... You know, our brains have the intellect side and then the emotional side. So when my emotional side starts to kick in and say, oh, who's gonna read your book? You're not you're nobody. You're not famous, blah blah blah blah, and then I have the other side, the intellect that says, damn straight. Everyone's gonna read my book. This is a really great story, and it's gonna inspire people. So it's just balancing those two positive and negatives,Lorilee Binstock 00:26:15 Mhmm.Christine Macdonald 00:26:21 but surrounding yourselfwith people who list you upand only wanna us to you succeedthat unconditional love, your sister, your brotherhood, people that are in your corner.That'swhat helps lift me and realizethat I'm worth it. In fact, my best best girlfriendI was... I received converter flowers from someone because of my book release, and I was fallingLorilee Binstock 00:26:48 Mhmm.Christine Macdonald 00:26:49 because I'm not used in receiving love where there's no catch.Like, I used to always think if I get love, then what's it gonna cost me, like, it was a transactionalLorilee Binstock 00:26:54 Yeah.Christine Macdonald 00:26:59 thingwhen people truly love you, they don't want anything from you. They just love you who you are.AndI text my best girlfriend, and I said, I'm really having a hard timebelieving I'm worth this. And she said, you remember that movie moons with share?Lorilee Binstock 00:27:13 Mhmm.Christine Macdonald 00:27:16 She's she said, what that out of it.She goes you are worth it step out of it. So surrounding yourself with people that truly truly only want the best for you. They don't have anymotives. There's nothing in it for them. I think that's huge. I think that really helps with your self esteem.Lorilee Binstock 00:27:37 It really sounds like your momwaskind of that person.Christine Macdonald 00:27:43 She was great. She had her own missteps, and I... And I do explain that in the book there are many things that,you know, she wishesshe and, of course, I do too.She didn't do or could have done betterbutshe's been my support system through this book. Even thoughthere's a part of her, of course, she's a mom. She doesn't wantthe world to know that her baby made all these missteps and choices. But in the end, she's... She's been great. Yeah. She's very worried about this book, but I told her I said, look, anyone who reads the book is gonna knowLorilee Binstock 00:28:17 Mhmm.Christine Macdonald 00:28:18 that you have your home messed missteps because you were raised by someone who was not healthy.So you know, the cycle. It's a cycle. Right?Lorilee Binstock 00:28:25 Right.It's the cycle.Exactly.Christine Macdonald 00:28:27 Yeah.Lorilee Binstock 00:28:29 Well,looking back at the entertainmentindustry now,what are your... What are your personal thoughts?And it sounds like when... When that nineteen year oldgirl walked through,you're... You you had a lot that you wanted to say to this person.Christine Macdonald 00:28:45 Yeah. Yeah. For sure.It's interesting because I... Since I...Been promoting self promoting this book. I got on Tick talk,and I had no idea what to expect. You know, I'm a Gen x or I'm just like, I didn't even know how to do this whole business, but I'm gonna tryLorilee Binstock 00:29:01 YeahChristine Macdonald 00:29:02 because, you know, social media is basically the best advertised you can do. And if you can gain a healthy following,it's a great way to get your message out. Right? So I am on talk, and most of my followersLorilee Binstock 00:29:11 Mhmm.Christine Macdonald 00:29:15 are current spicy dancers,Andthey are Absolutelyamazing. Each and every one of them has a story, and I don't know if you've ever seen Orange just black.Lorilee Binstock 00:29:26 Yeah.Christine Macdonald 00:29:27 But you know how the template of that story is,you really get to know the backstory of every inmates.And then you form an empathy that you didn't realize you could have for someone who is in prisonLorilee Binstock 00:29:41 Right.Christine Macdonald 00:29:42 becausewere against them and whatever whatever resources they had to do, which, of course, isn't to saythey shouldn't be imprisoned, but you wanna havean idea of their why and every single girl onstage stage, whether you're on stage or in a pen country, there's a reasonLorilee Binstock 00:29:55 Right.Christine Macdonald 00:30:01 and they're not necessarily bad people.So I am finding myself I feel like they're aunts or their house mom.Lorilee Binstock 00:30:09 YeahChristine Macdonald 00:30:09 And a lot of them come to me and say you give me inspiration that there is life after the pull. Because it's a young woman's game.And like I said, I was almost thirty, and I was freaking out that I was gonna be a senior citizen on the pool. So I never judge them. I support them.And I just... If they asked my advice because I never wanna give it unsolicited.I just say try and save some of your money and hold on to youryourself love and your power because it is a veryseductivepart in the punindustry, or you can get really wrapped up in the drugs so you can get wrapped up in the money, and then, of course, the next thing, you know, you're thirty.Lorilee Binstock 00:30:43 Mhmm.And there you are.Christine Macdonald 00:30:53 And there you are.Lorilee Binstock 00:30:56 Is there would you say because I thinka lot of that has to do with self love and self worth. And do you think people who go into...Do you think there are people who go into the adult entertainment worldwhoare already strong, and their self love and their self worth.Christine Macdonald 00:31:15 I do. I do. And I've worked with women that had their...Can I swear?Lorilee Binstock 00:31:20 Of course, Go for it.Christine Macdonald 00:31:21 Okay.I've work... I've worked with women who had their shit together. Like, they werecollege students. They were moms during the day, and they were trying to supplement.You know, that trying to feed their child,not all of the womenthat are, you know, choose the sex industry the sex work industry, whether it's,spicy dancing or now is all virtual. Right? They have there's only fans. There'sLorilee Binstock 00:31:47 Oh, yeah.Christine Macdonald 00:31:48 there's sex work in thein the literal sense, which I I never crossed over to do, but I have many friends that did. All of those thingsyou're not necessarily broken.Everybody has their own reason,Lorilee Binstock 00:32:02 Mhmm.Christine Macdonald 00:32:02 butI do find in myexperience that I have come acrosswomen that did not think highly of themselves. But it's death it's very important to me that I I want people to know that I do not put a blanket statement on anyone who chooses that industry that they're all broken.You know? But, yeah, it's it it it is a themeLorilee Binstock 00:32:21 Mhmm.Christine Macdonald 00:32:25 it is a theme as with maybe other. You know, if you're in the modeling industry or anything like that, I can only imagine how toxic that would be as well.Lorilee Binstock 00:32:33 Right.Christine Macdonald 00:32:33 Especially in the in the day of filters.Right? And all of these...You don't know what's real. And then these these young womengo on toor or whatever. And they think, oh, my life, they they compare themselves to these unrealisticexpectations.Right.Lorilee Binstock 00:32:51 Mhmm.Yeah. You know what I think about, you know, I was a young journalistat a young talent, really, you know, a television station with a bunch of youngyoung people.And, you know,to want to be on Tv.I mean, I feel like it's it's definitely not a glamorous job may seem like it, but definitely is not.But you know, when I looked all around me, there... You know, there are people whoare broken. I feel like... I mean, I'm that's like you said, I'm not saying everyone in. But they're they're they're trying to find their voice. And then I feel like that was kind of me. Like, people who had... Were we're not listened to. They'd got a job, so that people will listen to them Right? And I feel like I was... I was also that person as well. So I go, I tried to find my voice working in this business, but you know, obviously, that's that's not what's going to fix it. Right? You have to look within yourselfChristine Macdonald 00:33:22 Mhmm.Mhmm.Lorilee Binstock 00:33:46 to be able to figure out why do I need this? What was I mis sing as a childChristine Macdonald 00:33:49 Yeah.Mhmm.Lorilee Binstock 00:33:52 in order for meto pursue this this career, this lifestyle,I think figuring out everyone's why, I think it's is important. You know, I feel like if we understood everyone's why there wouldn't be so much judgment.Christine Macdonald 00:34:04 You know,Hundred percent. Hundred percent. Wouldn't it be great if everyone was, like, you have mandatory therapy from age twenty.Lorilee Binstock 00:34:16 Maybe younger.Christine Macdonald 00:34:17 Right.Lorilee Binstock 00:34:18 Maybe it's thirteenChristine Macdonald 00:34:19 Right.Lorilee Binstock 00:34:19 when you're teenager and there's hormones going and, yes.Christine Macdonald 00:34:21 Yeah. Yeah. I know. And then and, unfortunately, there's a lot of therapists out there thatthey're not that great.So by finding a therapistLorilee Binstock 00:34:29 Yeah.Christine Macdonald 00:34:31 that you can connect with that you havethat magicalchemist with is not easy. But once you find the right therapist, it really does help with that insightandYeah. It's it's definitely an eye opener when you find out thateverything's connected, Like, everything'sconnected. That's why I talk about in the book. I have I've hadthe race when I was thirteen, I had the skin disease. There's father abandonment. They're drinking in the house and all of these things the bullying, the stripping everything's linked, you know?Lorilee Binstock 00:35:03 Mhmm.Christine Macdonald 00:35:04 And sonow that I'm in my fifties,I look through,especiallythe process of writing the book. I look through a different lens when I'm looking at that little girl, and I think, oh, of course, you ended up a stripper. And I'm not saying that to be... Do you know, I'm saying it to be self def. Like, what chance did I have? Like, of course, I'm gonna end up a distributor. But the the thing that I want people to focus on is not the fact that I was a cliche because I'm the first to say I'm a walking cliche. You know? But it's how I got out of itLorilee Binstock 00:35:19 YeahOkay.Mhmm.Christine Macdonald 00:35:37 because I have to say the women that I have reconnected with because it's very difficult to try and findthe girls that I used to work with because you can't do a Google search on candy. Right? You don't know their legal name.Showthe women that I have reconnected with the the marvel of the Internet, which wasn't around back in our day, God I'm old.Lorilee Binstock 00:35:59 YeahChristine Macdonald 00:36:00 They're... That they're lawyers.Attorneys, There there are doctors, and and this is just, you know, they own their own businesses. I have a friend that's a makeup artist in Hollywood, all of these wonderfulwomen that have excel are it's just so nice to know that people have come out the other side and then, you know, there's other other people that are no longer with us and and all of those tragedies. But,yeah it it can be an uplifting story. It doesn't have to be a dark cloud.Lorilee Binstock 00:36:29 Right. And, yours is a very veryinspiring story.Christine Macdonald 00:36:34 Thank you.Lorilee Binstock 00:36:36 Is there anything else that you would like to add?Christine Macdonald 00:36:41 Don't compare yourself. If there's any it... And if there's any advice that I would give. Now this goes for men too.Lorilee Binstock 00:36:42 Mhmm.Christine Macdonald 00:36:47 I will say,especially when you're young and impressionpassionately in this age of social media wherethe attention span of people is probably, like, two seconds.Lorilee Binstock 00:37:01 It's tech.Christine Macdonald 00:37:01 Right. Everybody'sright, everybody, and I'm guilty of it as well all a sudden it's seven o'clock. And and it's midnight, I'm like, why have I been scrolling the whole time? But but the thing is it's... It's... We find ourselvesLorilee Binstock 00:37:06 Me too.Christine Macdonald 00:37:14 subconsciouslycomparingand I do this all the time, and I have to kinda check myself and say, no no no. Stay in your lane. And I don't remember who said this, but I'm gonna be boo and say, a quote,comparison is that beef of joy. Comparison is the thief of joy. So if you really stopLorilee Binstock 00:37:30 Yes.Christine Macdonald 00:37:35 comparing yourself with others,focus on... On who you are, what you wanna accomplice, what your dreams are, who you are is person,and just let your dreams guide you,andyou'll end up okay. I think you'll be alright.And no you're worth is not predicated on what anybody else thinks of you.That took a long time for me. To understand.Lorilee Binstock 00:37:59 Yeah. I think I think finding self worth without, you know, with it's it's a it's a difficultChristine Macdonald 00:37:59 You know?Lorilee Binstock 00:38:04 thing to do. It's... I mean, it's taken me years and I'm still... I I I struggle, but I'm light years away from who I was,you know,Christine Macdonald 00:38:13 Yeah.Lorilee Binstock 00:38:14 up four years ago.Christine Macdonald 00:38:16 Mhmm.Lorilee Binstock 00:38:18 But, yeah, It's just finding it within yourself. And in that andChristine Macdonald 00:38:20 Yeah. And that's... Yeah. Yeah. It's all about the rewire. Right? You gotta rewire that brainbecause we were... We were taught as children that we, you know, we didn't matter. We were invincibleLorilee Binstock 00:38:26 yep.Christine Macdonald 00:38:33 I was called work.Lorilee Binstock 00:38:33 You're just a kid.Christine Macdonald 00:38:35 Exactly.Go in the other room, watch Tv.I was told I was worthless. Almost every day. And so it's very difficult to rewire thosevoices, but once you can get control of that,you know, you're you're good. You're golden. Just say sit in your kid truth, stand in your power,and don't compare yourself.Lorilee Binstock 00:38:54 Don't compare yourself that I think that that's key. That's key right there.Christine Macdonald 00:38:58 Mhmm.And being a good human being. Be a good person.You know?Lorilee Binstock 00:39:02 Yeah.Christine Macdonald 00:39:03 Yeah.Lorilee Binstock 00:39:03 Yes.A hundred percent. Thank you so much. Christine, I really appreciate you joining me today.Christine Macdonald 00:39:10 Oh, thank you. This is fun.Lorilee Binstock 00:39:12 I'm glad. I'm glad.Well, that one's Christine Mcdonald's author of the Memoir face value from Stripper Pull to bearing my soul. For more information on Christine, click on that for scrolling fortune cookie right there in the middle of your screen, that will actually take you to her book. Also, Mark issue of authentic insider now Christine has contributed to that issue, and check out authentic takethrive dot com. That's trauma survivor thrive dot com. You can find authentic insider there and past issues as well as episodes of this podcast.If you haven't already, please subscribe to my email list to get authentic insider magazine in your inbox monthly.Thank you so much for joining me live today. Show like next week, March fifteenth, when I speak with founder of the psychedelic Medicine coalition,Melissa,we will be discussing how psychedelics helped her heel from postpartum part depression and how that led her to create the Psychedelic menacing coalition.You've been listening to a trauma survivor driver's podcaston Fireside, I'm Lorilee Binstock thanks again for being a part of the conversation.Take care.
This is a LIVE replay of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast which aired Wednesday, March 1st, 2023 at 1130am ET on Fireside Chat.
Today’s guest is Laura Lynn Logan, Hypnotherapist, Energy Healer and Medical Intuitive.
Transcript:Lorilee Binstock 00:00:37 Welcome. I'm Lorilee Binstock, and This is A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast.Thank you so much for joining me live on Fireside chat where you can be a part of the conversation as my virtual audience. I am your host, Loyalty been.Everyone has an opportunity to ask me or our guest questions by requesting to hop on stage or sending a message in the chatI will try to get to you, but I do ask everybody be respectful.Today's guest is Laura Lynn. She is a therapist, energy healer and medical intuitiveLaura. Thank you so much for joining me. Are you joining me from Hawaii?Laura Lynn 00:01:33 Oh, hi, Lily. Thank you so much for having me. Yes. I am.Lorilee Binstock 00:01:37 Oh, aloha.Laura Lynn 00:01:39 I don't do you too.Lorilee Binstock 00:01:41 Thank you. Well, you know, there some like so many modalitiesto healing trauma. And most of them are holistic and effective.But him Therapy is one of those that I feel like it's gone under the radar, something that's also effective.Can you kind of explain why you think that is?Laura Lynn 00:02:00 You know,ever since I got into therapy,it had been under the radar, like, even when it's portrayed in movies, like, I don't know if you seen get outorhypnotic onget I think it's called black box of Amazon prime.Lorilee Binstock 00:02:20 Oh, and betty, have you have you seen betty?Laura Lynn 00:02:22 No. I haven't seen there. I not Have to go watch it.Lorilee Binstock 00:02:25 No. We'll we'll talk about that in a little bit.Laura Lynn 00:02:28 Okay.But, yeah, you know, all of these movies betrayedthere hypnosis to be very bad,and it's because of how powerful it is.That you can heal yourself in this way that,you know, it's it's even stronger than regular therapy andLorilee Binstock 00:02:46 Mhmm.Laura Lynn 00:02:46 it just allows you to gettothat root cause of why you feel the way you feel.Get to them cause of the trauma that you've been carrying or your life. Andif I just wish a lot of people would know more about how powerful therapy is.Lorilee Binstock 00:03:04 You know, I I have a a podcast friend. She has a podcast healingwith Karen and, you know, it's a great podcast everyone should check it out. She talks about her own experience with Therapy. It is extremelypowerful.And I think with the a a lot of modalities,to heal trauma because you really have to, like,kind of dive into the trauma.Laura Lynn 00:03:27 Thank you.Lorilee Binstock 00:03:28 And and I think that's a lot really scary. There is actually a a mean that I saw the other day. It was a person standing at the edge of a cliff. And it was someone flicking them off and it was like,Laura Lynn 00:03:36 Mhmm.Lorilee Binstock 00:03:40 and then at the bottom was someone catching them, and it was like, also I. So I feel like I could go the same way with him no therapy.Like, you... It it will really knock you into oblivion until but it will also heal you you're you're willing and I think,that can be the scary part of it.I wanted to ask how did you get to hit because you hadyou have your own experience with it as well.Laura Lynn 00:04:06 Yeah. It was quite a journey. So what really ignited all of this was a divorce.I washad my second son.He was six weeks old when my husband at the time, wanted of the divorce,actually had to go to my post part of appointment that morning. Andoh, gosh. It was just... It was... I just felt help with hopeless with.Lorilee Binstock 00:04:25 Mhmm.Laura Lynn 00:04:30 Anxiety came up and like, oh my gosh. Like, what am I gonna do? Like, this is all I know.AndI kinda gave it up to God, and I decided to,you know, give them what he wanted and do it in the most grateful way possible.And slowly, but surely, like, little little things started coming in front of me,andthat's when I became with my spiritual journey in my human journeyand it came across this woman whodid a human on me, and I read her bio, and she's like, oh, I'm a hit therapist. Andshe went to the specific school. And so I looked it up, and they did like a free freecoursejust see if you liked it and they did. And so that's how I actually started doing hit therapy and thenlike, six months in, I went to another schoolin Britain. SoI I got to learn two different styles, and I graduatedwithin a month apart from east school,and it's been such an amazingamazing journey ofBecause in learning him a therapy, you also have to practice with other students,And that's when a lot being started to unfold for me, and it wasvery,you know, this is amazing.Lorilee Binstock 00:05:46 What did the hit therapyshow you?Laura Lynn 00:05:50 Okay. Well, like, the firstthe first time I ever spoke about mychildhood sexual of abuse,I was about thirty four years old. This was was kind of like,Lorilee Binstock 00:06:01 Mhmm.Laura Lynn 00:06:02 of course, everything happened after,you know, thethe divorce.And I don't know if you ever heard of jean keys. It's sort of like,you like, howpeople do astrology and they look at needle charts.Lorilee Binstock 00:06:16 Mhmm.Laura Lynn 00:06:17 Well, it's just another way for you to learn more about yourself on deeper levels?Like that with human design. So Jean Key is just another aspect of it,and this guy did my reading,and he looked at my childhood he was like,suddenly happen to you.And I just started ball because the first time like, someone brought it up, and I was like, yes. I was... I sexually abuse. And andLorilee Binstock 00:06:41 Mhmm.Laura Lynn 00:06:42 from then,it was just such relief you because having hold in under I'd had never told us souluntil that moment.And now I went when I went toSchool,it's funny becauseat first, you look at something things like confident.And when you kind of, like, go down the rabbit of why you're not confident,you don't you don't know what's gonna end up of what is connected to the root cause.Lorilee Binstock 00:07:08 Mhmm.Laura Lynn 00:07:09 And a lot of the... The service other things I was trying to shift or youroot causewas my,you know, experienceof sexual abuse and childhood.And so,you know, I also had to be vulnerable with these other students that I had I didn't know, like like... And they're were from all over the world, and and I kinda just surrendered because I was just tired of holding on to all this pain. Andso that's what of voted for me in majority of the hit Therapy sessions that I did with other students to get toyou know, wearing that today of being hit therapist myself.Lorilee Binstock 00:07:47 Wow. Wow. Yeah. I you know, it does take a lot to be vulnerable. And I think that is kind of the keywhen doing doing anytrauma healing because if you're soreluctant to to kind oflet yourself just be or or orbe in the experience.It can... It can, you know, it it can be just hard and and you know...Laura Lynn 00:08:12 Mhmm.Lorilee Binstock 00:08:16 I I do want... So I I... I mentioned earlier betty. Like, you're saying that there's was a lotwherehave no therapy iskind of portrayed in a verynegative way or negative light.Laura Lynn 00:08:28 Mhmm.Lorilee Binstock 00:08:30 And, Anybody, it's like it's actually a showaboutit's a doc. It's like a... I don't wanna say documentary. It's it's like atelling of the Texas acts murderer,Laura Lynn 00:08:44 Mhmm.Lorilee Binstock 00:08:44 the woman who killed her best friendandshe actually goes intoshe she goes to a hint therapist.Where she kind of discovered, like, there was a trigger that happened with her friend,where it wasn't that shewanted tomurder her friend, but there was a triggerit was, like, somethinga similar thing that are wondered that her mom did that was very triggering for her from her trial to trauma. Where she kind of blacked out and justLaura Lynn 00:09:11 Mhmm.Mhmm.Lorilee Binstock 00:09:17 she had max and, you know, what so and so happened.So they knew that she she actually was a murderer, but they didn't knowthey they... Their... The whole thing was, you know, was it premor whatever. So they actually brought the hit no therapist andLaura Lynn 00:09:29 Mhmm.Lorilee Binstock 00:09:32 And, obviously, a lot of people are like, oh, this no therapist.It's... You know, it's woo stuff.Laura Lynn 00:09:36 Yeah.Lorilee Binstock 00:09:39 But to me, I feel like it that legitimately is real. And actually, I think she's livingsomewhere,and she's actually, I I don't know practicing and therapist but she is some sort of therapist. I was looking her up. I like, this is very interesting.How therapy can, like, really do that to you.Could you actually talk about how does hit no therapy actually were?Laura Lynn 00:10:01 Yeah. So it's...So we have our conscious mind andyou know, our subconscious is mine,people don't really know too much about it, but it's like the most powerful of that you have, like, as your mindLorilee Binstock 00:10:12 Mm-mm.Laura Lynn 00:10:15 everything that you've ever experiencedsince you're born. And, you know, if you if you wanna get a little bit more deeper than this, but when hit the serviceyou know, you can also do past life work in chemotherapy.Lorilee Binstock 00:10:27 Mhmm.Laura Lynn 00:10:30 So because the conscious my... There's your self subconscious line. This is where we do work. But you can also access your super subconscious linefor the past life stuff.Butany whoeverything you ever experienced lifetime even when you're in your your mother's moon,Lorilee Binstock 00:10:48 Mhmm.Laura Lynn 00:10:48 like, the feeling she feltthings that you could hear as a baby,like that affected you coming into this world. The experiences you've had affected youLorilee Binstock 00:10:58 The energy I right, the energy that your mom may haveLaura Lynn 00:10:59 toYeah. The energy Exactly.Lorilee Binstock 00:11:03 passed onLaura Lynn 00:11:04 Mhmm.Lorilee Binstock 00:11:05 Yeah. Go ahead. I I just... I... That was something that I had discovered as well.Laura Lynn 00:11:06 Oh yeah.Okay. Awesome. Right. Because when I started discovery all these things is like, my kind of being blown. I was like, Oh, my god.Lorilee Binstock 00:11:18 Right.Laura Lynn 00:11:18 But then but then, again, not everybody's ready for this information.Lorilee Binstock 00:11:22 Exactly.Laura Lynn 00:11:23 So all we can do is is just, you know, honor people have their journey and hopefully, one day that they'll start resonating with this and, you know, get on their human training well.Butback to what I was saying,it's like, especially when we go through things that are very traumatic,there's parts within us that hold onto that for us so that we can somewhatlive normal lives and society. Right?Like, a lot of my experiences iskinda of likeskeletons in the closet in the sense that's similar tohiding things in our subconscious mind.But,you know like, how you said about Betty, like, she was triggered. And now when we get triggered by certain things that we've already experienced,Lorilee Binstock 00:12:06 Mhmm.Laura Lynn 00:12:10 if these parts with dinners that are trying to protect us, so she got triggered.This part came through was like, no. I don't wanna experience this again. So she protected her, even though it was very... Bad had act that she did, butLorilee Binstock 00:12:23 Right.Laura Lynn 00:12:24 you know, a lot of these times,it's just these parts that are trying to protect this from, you know, experiencing that painfulyou know, emotion experience again.Sothe some subconscious might it's powerful and a lot of the times,our behaviors our living beliefs are in there. So if you're able to get into so subconscious as my reprogram,you know, the whateverbeliefs you have then and there's a lot of the times, from each zero, the seven is where we're just engaging all this information.Lorilee Binstock 00:12:58 Mhmm.Laura Lynn 00:12:58 It's like,where our subconscious might really open to season because we we come to this world, we'll let know what's happening so we're just in takingeverything. So some of your family,your... You know, your friends going to school just watch you and usethose become your beliefs on how your... You how you think you're supposed to live.AndAs reason why, sometimes peoplelike, what this is just the way I am,Lorilee Binstock 00:13:26 Mhmm.Laura Lynn 00:13:27 but that's not the case can always change.You are, if you wanna better yourself, if you wanna hear that pain, if you wanna shift your behaviors,Yeah.Lorilee Binstock 00:13:38 Yeah. I...It's it's it's when you... When you talk aboutyou know,like you were saying about,you know, even in the womb,you will you can you feel like the energy you feel like, for me, it wasvery much... You know, I'm was kind of an accident accident.Laura Lynn 00:13:58 MhmmLorilee Binstock 00:13:58 I wasn't that. You know? And like my parents actually talk about they did when I was younger about being an accident constantly.Laura Lynn 00:14:00 Mhmm.Mhmm.Lorilee Binstock 00:14:07 And so I felt that energy as a bit as they infant, obviously, I can't take inthat the language of what they're saying, but I can feel.You know, I was able to feel that energy and felt unwanted and felt unworthy.Laura Lynn 00:14:18 Mhmm.Mhmm.Lorilee Binstock 00:14:23 And, you know, that kind of how I grew up You know, it's it's literally taken me, you know, in thirty nine now,Laura Lynn 00:14:29 Mhmm.Lorilee Binstock 00:14:31 I didn't findhealing untilseveral years ago,Laura Lynn 00:14:35 Mhmm.Lorilee Binstock 00:14:35 and I didn't... And I so I've been feeling unworthy for just the majority of my life. Right? And so I'm, you know, it's just taking that that that healing.Laura Lynn 00:14:40 Yeah.Lorilee Binstock 00:14:44 But it's there isn't very true that if, you know, thewhenduring hit therapy,it can access. Like, you said your subconscious mind, things that you don't even realizewhat was there,Laura Lynn 00:14:59 Mhmm.Lorilee Binstock 00:14:59 like,like, I guess, things that you could've have blacked out because it was too traumatic at the time.Laura Lynn 00:15:05 Yes. That is so true. So what am I experiences?One of these guys he he offered... Is he's a coach. She offered me a free sessionbecause he was living on another island in Hawaii, so was kinda of like, oh, you're from way to. Oh, let's get it together and I give you a free sense. I'm like oh, thank you.AndLorilee Binstock 00:15:25 It's amazing.Laura Lynn 00:15:26 Yeah. He was leaving a service, butbecause I've been doing this for a while, like, I'm able to like, drop into my self subconscious mind and access things.Lorilee Binstock 00:15:36 Mhmm.Laura Lynn 00:15:37 And so as he was taking me through this exercise,we went to a place where where it was like, this skeleton closet it, like I ended upin front of a door,and I had a keyandI was the only person that was able to open the store, and it was my choice open the door.And behind that was like, all the parts of me that hadexperienced being sexually abused.It's like, every time that happened, like a part,Lorilee Binstock 00:16:05 Mhmm.Laura Lynn 00:16:07 like, fractured offLorilee Binstock 00:16:09 Mhmm.Laura Lynn 00:16:09 and, like, was put in the closet, like, no. I don't wanna see thisyou don't exist.Lorilee Binstock 00:16:16 Nice.Laura Lynn 00:16:17 And so I was like, you know what? We're going in closet becauseLorilee Binstock 00:16:20 Mhmm.Laura Lynn 00:16:22 I'm not gonna, like,like, when I want my healing journey, like, I'm just going like, as fast as I can go, like, I'm healing whatever I can heal.Lorilee Binstock 00:16:30 Mhmm.Laura Lynn 00:16:31 Bring it onSo I went in there and as I opened the door, it's like, I felt all of this like, immense energy of, like,all of the experiences that they were holding on to for me. Right? These are all, like, my inner childrenLorilee Binstock 00:16:48 Mhmm.Laura Lynn 00:16:48 that had fractured off because they experience it and the guys put in the closet.And so with that,because I was also doing energy healing, like, I went to the center of the road.And then I called upon, you know, god my universe creator or whatever you believe?And my angels,and we just, like,like, a light came down,like, through me and through my heart,expanded out to all the hearts of all these little children that were in that room. So I could heal them.And it was sergeant Credit Luke's experience, andand then they went from that room to a playground, like, and just play with each other. SoLorilee Binstock 00:17:26 Mhmm.Laura Lynn 00:17:29 so that that was that experience. And he was like, wow. You know, I've done this with so many other people andlike that happens so fast. Usually, people don't even go in the closet, and it would take them like,many sessions for them to even, like, walk through that door.Like, Yeah. I'm kinda dedicated to to myself right now.Lorilee Binstock 00:17:48 MhmmLaura Lynn 00:17:49 And like my viewing journey, so if you can bring it up and we can face it and he it, And that's what I'm gonna do.Lorilee Binstock 00:17:56 Well,you know, whatyou talking about that kind of room... You know, these parts. You know, I I'm ininternal family systems therapy.Laura Lynn 00:18:05 Okay. Nice.Lorilee Binstock 00:18:06 And we talk about a lot of partsand the parts that are fractured and the parts that are broken off the fart that I need to thatLaura Lynn 00:18:08 Yes.HereLorilee Binstock 00:18:13 individually need healing.Laura Lynn 00:18:14 Mhmm.Lorilee Binstock 00:18:15 I love that. Because I I feel like that... I I... You know, I feel like all trauma healing really. It it's really focused on different parts and accessing your your subconsciouswhether be through bitmap therapy. I've also, I don't know if if you're aware, but I've done a lot not a lot, but I have doneseveral sessions of psychedelichealing.Laura Lynn 00:18:38 Oh,Lorilee Binstock 00:18:39 And it... And it's it's it's like that. I feel like when you're sick talking about, like,Laura Lynn 00:18:39 nice.Lorilee Binstock 00:18:44 imagining the store, imaginingyou know, I can open this. And if I open this, with it's gonna be back there, and it's it's all of these things all of the skeletons.Laura Lynn 00:18:50 Mhmm.Lorilee Binstock 00:18:55 That are there that you can just,you know, you're were like, that's what I need to heal. That's what I need to heal.I think I I think for no therapy, you you really have to want to to access that stuff.Laura Lynn 00:19:10 Mhmm.Lorilee Binstock 00:19:10 Like I said, with my friend and Karen, she...It's really interesting listening to her because it did get a little intense. There were times where we're was so attention hat. She was, like, I can't do this right? Now I need to take a break from itLaura Lynn 00:19:21 Yeah.Lorilee Binstock 00:19:23 because you're really, really accessing to some real real trauma that you've experienced your kind have have to experience it again. And I think that that can be really, really tough.Laura Lynn 00:19:27 Mhmm.Lorilee Binstock 00:19:36 You are also an energy healer.Laura Lynn 00:19:39 Yes.Lorilee Binstock 00:19:41 Can you talk a little bit about that? And how does that work together with hit therapy.Laura Lynn 00:19:47 Yeah. Soit was funny because I going through that school and britain.Theysimilarlylike, said wordsthat would like, move energy, but they weren't doing, like, to them. It was just we're seeing words to move to this emotions out, but they're actually doing hip... I mean, energy hearing so it was kind funny bet. I was like, these people don't even know they're doing,butbecause there's they're keeping it more on the practical side.Of chemotherapy. Right?A lot of people can believe that more than energy killing.Lorilee Binstock 00:20:23 Mhmm.Laura Lynn 00:20:25 ButYes. So I went through another school.Her name was Chris Hughes. Andwhat's what's funny is that she went to the same hip therapy that I went to... Which was the first one that I told you that I came across of. Like, she went to the exact same school.Lorilee Binstock 00:20:40 Mhmm.Laura Lynn 00:20:42 And she's also energy. So she createdthisthis little dolly called integrated full technology.Whichkind of brings the best of both worlds ofand energy healing and it's similar to the parts healing like,for for that modality, will, like, connect with the part that needs to be shift.And we'll pull that part out,and thenfrom there, we'll do the the energy shooting part. So it's likepart hit therapy, part energy healing, bringing it together visiblemess both world,andreally justyou know, bringing those fracture parts of your soulto back to wholeness.Lorilee Binstock 00:21:29 Do... Is is the energy healing that you do is that similar to, like, Frankie?Laura Lynn 00:21:35 Similar. Yes. It it's in the same room with energy healing. There's so many different modalities out there. It's quite amazing.Andyeah. So so, yes, It is similar toto Ricky.Or I know Ricky is reallyLorilee Binstock 00:21:49 For you.Laura Lynn 00:21:51 popular with when it comes to energy human mean.Lorilee Binstock 00:21:54 What so what are some of things that you do, like, for example?Laura Lynn 00:22:01 Well, so I've also taken, like,a medical going intuitive, of course.Lorilee Binstock 00:22:06 Mhmm.Laura Lynn 00:22:06 So I'm able to connect with people higher selfand sort ofkind of bring my guys in there guides.I work withRaphael. He's, you know, the angel of the the healer,andyou know, we kinda look at the body and see, like, okay. What is the most important thing that I needs to be worth on right now? Because there's so things going on with the body you can't you, everything it wander up because that's a lot of...That's a lot for a a personto handle right unless we've been inlike, the realm of energy healing,and they've done a lot and just human work.Lorilee Binstock 00:22:42 Mhmm.Laura Lynn 00:22:44 It's like,kind of baby stepping peoplethrough healing processes,whether there's therapy or energy human.But but, you know, that's just one thing that I do. I kinda do a lot of different things so what I tapped into is spiritual realm and energy human, I just like,one everywhere.Lorilee Binstock 00:23:07 I mean, I feel like I did... I did a little rocky workLaura Lynn 00:23:11 Awesome.Lorilee Binstock 00:23:11 someone I would... When I...Typically, before... You know, I started my period around that time of the month, and my hormones, and my energy is justLaura Lynn 00:23:17 Mhmm.Lorilee Binstock 00:23:20 off the charts. Like, II I I struggle with premwork disorder, which is like, a... It's it's not Pm, but it's like it Pm,and it could be a little bit more serious. You know,to be honest, Like, whenever I was dealing with my trauma,I've had since to a, you know, trigger warning. I had a lot of suicidal, and mean it was typically before my period.Laura Lynn 00:23:47 Mhmm.Lorilee Binstock 00:23:47 And I think there... There's also a connection there with my trauma. I'm also a childhood text abuse survivor.And so there there's trauma there that I'm working withmy my internal family system's therapist.Laura Lynn 00:23:58 Mhmm.Lorilee Binstock 00:23:59 But beforeabout the week or two before I wouldhave an energy or a anpractitionercome to my house and and work with my energy because I feel like I hold a lot of negative energy.Laura Lynn 00:24:14 Mhmm.Lorilee Binstock 00:24:14 Aroundaround that time in the month. And soit it was really, really helpful.I I feel like you can feel immediatelylike a relief.Laura Lynn 00:24:26 Mhmm.Lorilee Binstock 00:24:27 And and so, yeah. Andand you... You know, you mentioned medical intuitive. Could you could youelaborate on what is a medical intuitive?Laura Lynn 00:24:36 Yeah.It's really just happening into your tuition and helping peopletoenergetically move the densities in their body.Wherever it is, what it could be you know, the mind, the heart,you know, the womb,and but it's more of like just being a conduit for, you know, a spirit who works through you as as you're doing this work. Like, like, I just move my hands like I can do this remotely.With, you know, so in across the world, and then,like, they just leave meto to do what needs to be done in, like, removing those energies, bringing you high vibration energy into help youwhatever you needs to be here at that moment in time.Lorilee Binstock 00:25:23 Well, So you can actuallywork with even though they're not with you, and you like, you can you feel their energyfrom across the world.Laura Lynn 00:25:33 Yeah.Lorilee Binstock 00:25:33 Wow.Laura Lynn 00:25:35 Yeah. And it's it's really, like, connecting in with with their higher self for what and my higher self are like, okay. Tell me what this person means right now.You know, we all have... It's like, when we're feeling there's layers of healing,even when we do therapy, there's deeper layers to go through.But as you go through each layer, it just helpsthat much more like for me.I had.And so,like... Andand I can distinctly remember when this came to my life and whyLorilee Binstock 00:26:10 Mhmm.Laura Lynn 00:26:11 because my husband that that I divorced them with my two kids.Before we had our kids,he cheated on me, I attracted a lot of teachers in my life.Lorilee Binstock 00:26:21 MhmmLaura Lynn 00:26:22 My dad was a shooters. So if you kinda look at your childhood,you'll will see you the patterns of the partners that you attract.Lorilee Binstock 00:26:28 Right.Mhmm.Laura Lynn 00:26:29 Anda lot of it also was tutors and abandonment.So any who he cheated on me and I have this I had this habit because I also felt unworthyof taking them back. Know what I mean, instead of making those boundaries,and loving myself. Like, I deserved me treated like this. I would take them back.Lorilee Binstock 00:26:50 Right.Laura Lynn 00:26:52 And then my bible was like,you know what Laura?You're not learning your message. So we're gonna,like, the body of the warning system. So we're going toyou know, manifest this element for you to help you to recognize,like, what's happening. And, of course, if you're not aware that, then you're not able to get to the Root con why that's happening?So I wasn't dealing with that forfour years. Every time I have my period, it was as your painful experience, I would have blood and mucus come out of my school during my period.So the only timesLorilee Binstock 00:27:27 Mhmm.Laura Lynn 00:27:29 that that was done was when I was pregnant because I will have my period. But as soon as the bank came out right back to the same pattern,Lorilee Binstock 00:27:36 Join.Laura Lynn 00:27:37 once I got into this energy healing and this chemotherapy because on top of my childhood trauma, I had to heal all of the pain that I went through on my relationships.Andslowly, but surely, like, it got better,and I'm pregnant know.Lorilee Binstock 00:27:54 Oh, wow. Congratulations.Laura Lynn 00:27:55 Thank you. Thank you. But before I... Like, before I, you know, was pregnant like, like, I stopped having those issues like, it stops being painful.And and and that's what it happens, like, when they're in deep trauma, like, there's gonna be so many ways to kind of like, remove.But as you're going through it, and you're removing it, you're getting better as time moves for it. I mean, it's not gonna happen overnight, especially if it's something deep like that.But just know it it is gaining better over time. You gotta just keep on moving forward and kinda choosing you choosing to heal these parts of you that been holding on others this pain for you.Lorilee Binstock 00:28:37 You know, that's reallyinteresting. I've had... I've had other energy here he on the show, and they talk a lot aboutand for them too,you know, they haveautoimmune diseases.Laura Lynn 00:28:50 Mhmm.Lorilee Binstock 00:28:51 That,you know,modern day medicine was just not working, and then they were able to heal this energy.Laura Lynn 00:28:56 Mhmm.Lorilee Binstock 00:28:59 AndI don't know if necessarily what what they would they were dealing with, whenever autoimmune disease went away.Laura Lynn 00:29:08 Mhmm.Lorilee Binstock 00:29:09 But it was either manageable without medication,but it's it's it's just this thisenergy, I guess, they... That that they are trying to to heal. It's like you said the body that's telling youOkay. Something's things wrong with what's going on. And so we'll just... And we'll just tell you what to... Well we're just gonna have to give you a warning sign.Laura Lynn 00:29:28 Mhmm.Lorilee Binstock 00:29:33 Can hit no therapy actually break into that.Like,Laura Lynn 00:29:38 Yes. Definitely.You can, you know, get into subconscious mind and kinda talk to that part of your body.That's holding onto to that element,and kinda be like, okay. Why? Like, why is it here?And kinda really digging deep into the root cause of that. And then,you know, a lot of the times, it's just the acknowledgement me. Right? It's it's like, okay.Laura has taking the time to figure out why isn't happening,and and then, of course,helping those parts to release that pain to release why they're holding on to and also receiving the messagesand the lessons and the blessings of why that's happening right? BecauseLorilee Binstock 00:30:15 Mhmm.Laura Lynn 00:30:18 Again, all these parts are trying to protect us,and they you know, they wannathey want us to lead better lives and they'reyou know? So they're really there to to help you because, you know,for me with myhaving those painful periods every month like, it was just excruciating. Like, I felt like all was being and stabbed,Lorilee Binstock 00:30:43 Mhmm.Laura Lynn 00:30:43 very sharp pain.And it was, you know, me to me needing to honor my own self and to stopallowing men to you know, treat me that way. Like, I was nothing.And when I kinda took my power back, that's when you're started healing.Lorilee Binstock 00:31:01 Yeah. I'm I'm... I'm just wondering like if.You know, if someone who's dealing with, like, stress induced, you know, ailments,which I feel like a first, like, many autoimmune diseases. It's it it's they're really spurred on by stress,and being ablethe awareness of the stress, which I think is amazing that have no therapy can actuallykind of crack that open.Laura Lynn 00:31:26 Mhmm.Lorilee Binstock 00:31:28 That you can actually really start healing not not just mentally, but physically, and I and I think there's there's thishuge importance ofthis connection to your mental and physical state. Like, it's... Like, I feel like maybe now, I don't even know how maybe it's just in my circle because I, you know, my circle ofpeople who I know and I hear you know, it's it's all about healing mentally, but it's like there's this...There's a absolutely... There's this connectionand I think we need to learn how to be it to integrate it all in our healing and in in the medical world than the medical field. I feel likeit's it's... There's very a lot of focus on physical,and we we're not getting to the root of it all.Laura Lynn 00:32:15 Mhmm.Lorilee Binstock 00:32:16 And and it's really a pain because it's like, oh, insurance will take take care of, you know,cynical ailments much more easily, than it would take care of any mental ailments whenwhen they really really go together.Laura Lynn 00:32:31 Yeah.Yeah. That's true. I mean,there's definitelya connection you know with your mind physical body, and it's kind of like, for example,when I have my So both my children were c sessions, emergency Cc sections.And with my first one, like, I was walking around the house, like,Lorilee Binstock 00:32:45 Yeah.Laura Lynn 00:32:50 homestead overfor, like, two weeks justlike I was in pain,andand somy second one, I was like, I refused to be like that again, so I kinda told myself I told them I know I was like, I was like, I'm healing. And and this was before, even like, got into therapy energy human,I was just telling myselfthat this is what it was gonna be. So when I'm in the hospital,Lorilee Binstock 00:33:15 Mhmm.Laura Lynn 00:33:18 like, After I have my section very next day, I was up and I was walking.So it really is, like, the words that you tell yourself, and that's why we have to also watch likeLorilee Binstock 00:33:23 Mhmm.Laura Lynn 00:33:29 self talk. Right? Is it more positive or isn't it negative?Lorilee Binstock 00:33:31 Mhmm.Laura Lynn 00:33:33 And a lot of the time with therapy,I've done so much work that like, my, like,native self talk like is not even there because all these parts I've shiftedLorilee Binstock 00:33:43 Wow.Laura Lynn 00:33:45 And so all these parts are there to support me and, you know, and whatever I I wanna do in life and giving me encouragementinstead of kinda being, like who are youand, you know, whatever they yourself taught it,that anyone has,but that's why it's important to to do chemotherapy to learn about the some subconscious mind, the power of my, the part of you choosingto decide that Okay. I don't wanna have this yourself talk. I'm going tolike, a nativecomment comes through or that comes through and you like, know I don't accept that. I'm shifting that.And the more you do that,you know, again, over time because you been programmed this way for so long.Whether it's people projecting of their ownworries onto you and you believe in that stuff,Anduntil you just taking control back of your ownmind, your own life and really choosing what you wanna do for yourself.Lorilee Binstock 00:34:46 That is really interesting because now that I think about it, I I mean, I I used to be a bit, like big on negative self. Talk. I saw I don't know what why. And I now that I'm thinking about as you are actually saying those words done. I don't really know if I talk to myself that negativelyanymore.Like, it was just like, in every single day, like,Laura Lynn 00:35:03 Nice.Lorilee Binstock 00:35:06 this is veryselfjust...Laura Lynn 00:35:11 Mhmm.Lorilee Binstock 00:35:11 Like... And now that I'm thinking about I'm, like, I I don't feel like I talk to myself in a negative way.Anymore.And I wow. You know, I... That was just like a realization. I'm like, oh, ding ding think that actuallyLaura Lynn 00:35:23 Yeah.Lorilee Binstock 00:35:24 it it actually works when you shift andLaura Lynn 00:35:27 Mhmm.Lorilee Binstock 00:35:28 because I do feel like my life is so much more different than it was, you know,four or, five years ago because I feel like or maybe four years ago, thirty years ago, It was in twenty twenty when I actually startedLaura Lynn 00:35:38 Mhmm.Lorilee Binstock 00:35:41 like, healing.Prior to that, I was... Yeah. And so so recent.Laura Lynn 00:35:42 Oh nice.No. Mine was the same. Like, in twenty nineteen is what I on audience is when I had my son. So in September, he asked the divorce and Since then and I've been on the Hearing journey. So in twenty twenty, he actually divorced.Lorilee Binstock 00:35:55 Mhmm.Laura Lynn 00:35:59 In June. So that's when that was like,like, full speed ahead.Lorilee Binstock 00:36:03 Then you're like, I all I have... All I have to do is heal.Like, all I wanna do is heal, it's like you've been throughthe the hard stuff and and healing can be hard. You know? It... You know, it's like I said, like, that that means that I said it was it's like, kicking you off ofLaura Lynn 00:36:13 Oh, yeah.Yeah.Lorilee Binstock 00:36:19 a cliff, but then also catching you also the same time, but it's that that in between that you have to go through that fear of, like, fallingLaura Lynn 00:36:26 Mhmm.Lorilee Binstock 00:36:28 before you get to that that place where you're safe.And soI think... And and, you know, I feel like that's that's...Ohhow it it it is and a lot of peoplereally are reluctant to healLaura Lynn 00:36:43 Mhmm.Lorilee Binstock 00:36:44 because they there the there's the fear that they have to go through that fall, and that there's no one to catch them or there's nothing to catch them, but but the it can happen. It's it's there.Laura Lynn 00:36:56 Yeah.Lorilee Binstock 00:36:57 Is there anything that you would like to add?Laura Lynn 00:37:02 You know, I would just like to say,you know, for people to reallykind of look at themselves, do a lot of selfand kind of see like, am I happy wearing in that am I happywith what I'm doing with my life, and what am I happy with myself in how I'm being in how I behaveand kinda start and making those decisions toshift those things that you don't wanna be anymore intowhat you do wanna be and what you do wanna do andjust really follow your heart your heart andlike your compass.And because I know, you know, with a mind, you know, there's a lot of chatter sometimes. I remember when I first started,like,like so much.According on in my mind. I was like, I thought it was supposed to be required.Lorilee Binstock 00:37:51 Mhmm.Yep.Laura Lynn 00:37:55 And then, of course, you know, if you you learn a lot...Along the way, like, now, I know how to meditate very well, butit's like,really justchoosing what you want for yourself and knowing thatyou canyou can changeanything you want about yourself.And, you know, and it'll it'll take time because shifting behaviorsLorilee Binstock 00:38:13 Mhmm.Laura Lynn 00:38:18 like, you can do itlike,you can start to read reprogram yourself, like, on the service level, but hit therapy gets down on a deep level of changing behaviors andand healing.But, you know,kinda like,when you wake up in the morning right before you go to sleep, those of the most times that you're aremore open to suggestions.So kinda right before you go sleep kinda just tell yourself,Lorilee Binstock 00:38:42 Mhmm.Laura Lynn 00:38:46 you know,the things I that you wanna do or be or even affirmations, like, I affirmations are super powerful.So show you right before you go sleep,andand then as soon need you wake up and kinda justalso, like,really get tolearn more about yourself. Like, it's so important to focus on you, like,Lorilee Binstock 00:39:09 Mhmm.Laura Lynn 00:39:12 when I was going through,you know, I noticed my pattern of men, like, there'll be someone leaning in the wings and I would just go right to the next one,Never spending in any time on myself, never healing anything. And and so after my divorce like, something's gotta it change. And so I just street. So you show myself, focus on my healing,Lorilee Binstock 00:39:26 Mhmm.Laura Lynn 00:39:34 and I was like the happiest I've ever been. My extra come over to pick the boys and them because I, thank you for divorce me becauseLorilee Binstock 00:39:42 Yes.Laura Lynn 00:39:43 because I would not be wearing,like, emotionallyspirituallylike, if you didn'tinitiate that because I wasn't going to... I would never leave somebody. And that's the reason why like, I didn't.Lorilee Binstock 00:39:53 Mhmm.Laura Lynn 00:39:57 Throughout my relationships. I didn't honor myself. I... I didn't feel like I little the worthy of myself.And so learning to love yourself is a emotions important thing, like,when you fill a your cut first,Lorilee Binstock 00:40:10 Right.Laura Lynn 00:40:11 then everyone can get the overflow. But if you're trying to keep on forgetting, you're eventually gonna end up with nothing in your cup and you're still gonna try to give, but then you have nothing to give.Lorilee Binstock 00:40:17 Mhmm.Laura Lynn 00:40:21 SoLorilee Binstock 00:40:21 Right.Laura Lynn 00:40:22 you need to just give to yourself, learn more about yourself who you are. You know, a lot of a lot of people don't know a lot of people wanna know what their purpose in life.That's something thatthat happens through self discovery.Like people can't just,you know, people can give you hint like, as as I was going through my healing journey. I didn't know I was gonna be a healer and her ridiculous like, what is that?Lorilee Binstock 00:40:48 Yeah.Laura Lynn 00:40:49 Or the therapist?What I didn't know that existed.And as I was dedicated to myself, all of these pieces of a puzzle kept coming right in front of me,and then and then when I was like, oh,this is what I do. This is what I love. This is my passion. I'm here to help people.Lorilee Binstock 00:41:07 Wow.Laura Lynn 00:41:08 So it's really just focusing on you if, you know, especially if you're trying to find out, like, what am I here to do orjust loving yourself more.Allows you to raise your vibration,when you range your vibration,and you started attractingpeople situations experiences on different levels, andLorilee Binstock 00:41:24 Yes.Laura Lynn 00:41:28 and sometimes as equal go through this journey, like,people are gonna fall off people thatyou have been associated with because they're gonna be able to level that barrett, unless they're gonna do their human too.But it's okay. Like, don't hold yourself backbecause you wanna stay with these people like, you came to this earth for your soul evolution.Lorilee Binstock 00:41:47 Right.Laura Lynn 00:41:51 Not for, like, like, yeah, you're here to help people too, but not toplace small, keep yourselfdownjust becauseyou're scared to go by yourself. Sometimes you have to go through the door by yourself, just show people the way, and then they can go through their own own or by seeinglike, what's happening with you?So I've noticed like,a lot of you around me, My family members, like, they got exposed towhat I'm doing because,you know, I'm doing the healing the Therapy energy human and you're like, oh, wow.Laura is a whole different person.Lorilee Binstock 00:42:27 YeahLaura Lynn 00:42:28 Like, seriously... And it is old crazy. I like, I can't believe a person that wants.Lorilee Binstock 00:42:34 Right.Laura Lynn 00:42:34 But But, you know, it's so because that was like, what I had to heal when I had to learn what I had to grow from. And he evolved from, but people can see the shifted to me, and then it... It's in... Like, it's a it's like a c that's put in their mind like, oh,And so when they're ready, then they can come and ask me like, okay. So how do I do this? How do I how do I be better? How do I make better choices? Because a lot of times, we get triggeredand we go back into these old habits.I used to be a very jealous person, very insecure because I didn't know my old worth.Lorilee Binstock 00:43:10 Mhmm.Laura Lynn 00:43:10 And now it's like, it doesn't any exist because I love myself.Lorilee Binstock 00:43:14 No. Yes.Laura Lynn 00:43:15 So So it's like, really just working on yourself makes everything better.Lorilee Binstock 00:43:20 It does.Laura Lynn 00:43:21 So just learning to love yourself that's the the most important and, like,in life period.Lorilee Binstock 00:43:29 I'd love to end on that last note, but I have one more question.Do you believe that hit therapy is for everyone?Laura Lynn 00:43:38 WellI believe it's for everyone who's ready.Lorilee Binstock 00:43:43 Ready. Mhmm.Laura Lynn 00:43:44 Yeah. Becauselike, you are going todive deep intothese experiences. Are you been holding on to granted?Like, I've been too many different types of hidden therapist.Andwas the one I told you was integrated so technology, you just pull up the part that's been holding onto to the pain,and you figure out what the emotions are, you know, where the roots stem from.And the belief that they're holding on to and kind of. Okay. So soinstead of these things, what do you wanna believe now?What what energies do you wanna bring you know? And how do you want this part to support you know? Once it's fully killed?And then you bring something... You know, then that's another part on your team.ButI've also,you know, had an experience with someone where I I did hit the Therapyon meandshe was taking me through the actual experience I I was like, I was like, this is not good at all. I was like...How was like, no.But granted lucky, like, I've I've been throughlike, those two different types of Therapy, energy.Like, I was strong enough to experience that. But that in it for everyone like, that kinda justLorilee Binstock 00:44:57 Mhmm.Laura Lynn 00:44:59 traumatized peopleLorilee Binstock 00:45:00 Yeah.Laura Lynn 00:45:01 so it's kind of like,Lorilee Binstock 00:45:01 Yeah.Laura Lynn 00:45:03 but people don't need to go through that. But they just need to heal the part that's connectingthe emotionsto the event.And kinda releasing those emotions,so that event isn't triggering anymore.But, yeah, so it just depends on if a person is ready andkind of, you know, who they see because there's different types ofchemotherapy that people can do, like, internal family systemsLorilee Binstock 00:45:29 Mhmm.Laura Lynn 00:45:29 or the the icedorLorilee Binstock 00:45:33 Oh, still internal family system therapy considered a type oftherapy.Laura Lynn 00:45:38 To me, I feel like it is because it's talking to the parts.Of of you,which these parts are all in your self subconscious line.Lorilee Binstock 00:45:46 Interesting.Well, I didn't even think about that. You're right because I do. I, like, you know, Like I... It's like I go in,Laura Lynn 00:45:55 Mhmm.Lorilee Binstock 00:45:55 you know, we turn inwardLaura Lynn 00:45:57 Yeah.Lorilee Binstock 00:45:57 And then I dowitness these experiences from the root of the feeling that I'm concerned about.Laura Lynn 00:46:03 Mhmm.Lorilee Binstock 00:46:04 So that... You you know, I did... I've never really thought about that.I'm just like, oh, internal family systems. Oh, you know, hit therapy.But thatthat makes sensein saying that. But go ahead. I'm sorry.Laura Lynn 00:46:17 Oh, no. Yeah.Lorilee Binstock 00:46:19 Yeah.Laura Lynn 00:46:20 But, yeah,I I I really think that for people toget deeperdeeper human,especially if they have a lot of trauma because there... You know, there's different levels of trauma. Right?Like, a trauma could be, you know, a divorce or Term could be... Like, what we experience with sexual abuse and childhood.Lorilee Binstock 00:46:41 Mhmm.Laura Lynn 00:46:41 Butyou know, to getsome really deep hearing then, yes. I believe thatpeople should do therapyLorilee Binstock 00:46:51 Yeah.Laura Lynn 00:46:51 Yes.Yeah.Lorilee Binstock 00:46:52 Oh, well, is is there do youprepare for? Or you just dive right into it?Laura Lynn 00:47:02 Usually, I... Will, when I do it on myself, I dive right into it.But with other people it just depends on, like,like, what they're healing.Lorilee Binstock 00:47:12 Mhmm.Laura Lynn 00:47:12 So, for example,someone came to me for anger,like, I'm angry all the time. And like, okay. Like my let's let's work to find the root positive anger,and they told to find out there's anger,what he also experiencedsexualsexual abuse as a child in the same situation that I was in because of being the like growing up in a drug.Lorilee Binstock 00:47:36 Mhmm.Laura Lynn 00:47:36 Soso we can hold, you know,all these things expressions themselves in different ways.And, like, hisexpressed in anger, and that's what the root collins was for him.So...Yeah, it's it's justreallydepend onI don't what need to be healed. You know?Lorilee Binstock 00:47:59 Right. That makes sense. You know, there was a point where I like, everyone should try psychedelic dogs because I found my healinglike, the root of, like, my healing through psychedelic psychedelics I was like everyone should try it and then it was, like, wait a minute.Maybe notLaura Lynn 00:48:13 Yeah.Lorilee Binstock 00:48:14 may... Not not everyone may... Will be so open to really diving head first into... The, like the darkened places of your soul.Laura Lynn 00:48:20 Yeah.Yes. Like me I'm down, like, yes, and go there. You're like, that's where I wanna go.Lorilee Binstock 00:48:27 Yes.See that's where I am. Exactly. Like, I'm not And you know, they mean... They talk about, like,bad trips and and really, bad trips are literally just traveling to the darkest places of your soul.Laura Lynn 00:48:35 Mhmm.Mhmm.Lorilee Binstock 00:48:40 And but from from there, that's when you findyou find the healings, the deep deep appealing, all the stuff that's just beenLaura Lynn 00:48:46 Yes.Yes.Lorilee Binstock 00:48:50 affecting you,not even knowing it. Right?Laura Lynn 00:48:53 Yes.Exactly. Like, you... Like, a lot of times, we're, you know, the way we act what we get triggered from, we don't know where these things stem from.Lorilee Binstock 00:49:00 Exactly.Laura Lynn 00:49:01 And a lot of people like, I don't know why I don't... Like, people were depressed, I no lying this way. I don't know I feel this with. That's because it's, like,trapped year so conscious mine and it's like, I don't know if this person's readyto, like,be aware of what actually happened to them. In there, you know, for whatever I experience it has. But...Lorilee Binstock 00:49:19 Mhmm.Laura Lynn 00:49:22 But, yeah. Like, I I went... I did like, aI don't know if you know Wim, he he he's about breathing. So I went to a wim,Lorilee Binstock 00:49:27 Yes.Laura Lynn 00:49:31 like workshop.Breathing andand ice bath. My first time, never done your breathing exercises and one guide, like,Lorilee Binstock 00:49:36 Yes.Laura Lynn 00:49:40 he like, went so deep that he was fighting like Demons within himself in the sense so he got up from the the breath meditation. It was swinging,like, he was just fighting something and he was, like, unconscious,Lorilee Binstock 00:49:51 Oh, my goodness.Laura Lynn 00:49:54 and you would like traveling over people, so we kinda had a spout the circle.Butand he just left like he... You know, but that's what happens when people aren't ready toface their their demons. You know, I mean face that darkness?So it it's kindaLorilee Binstock 00:50:10 Yeah.Laura Lynn 00:50:11 you kinda gotta take it in stepsand kinda like, know your limits, butkinda like, I you it. Oh, take me there. I'm like, you take me their too.Lorilee Binstock 00:50:20 Yes.Yes. That's and I'm like, I can't go through anything worse than what I've been through.Laura Lynn 00:50:26 Right. Yes.Lorilee Binstock 00:50:26 I now is... There's only one way to just kill and it's having toLaura Lynn 00:50:29 Yes.Lorilee Binstock 00:50:31 dive deep.Laura Lynn 00:50:33 Yes. I love that. I have not trying sag Bell. So, like, which one specifically,Lorilee Binstock 00:50:33 So... Yeah.Laura Lynn 00:50:38 like,you know, helped you the most.Lorilee Binstock 00:50:41 Well, I started with Md.Andthe the reason why isbecauseit it kind of shuts off the fearthe fearpart of your brain, the fear and anxiety of your brain. So you're actually able to see all of these really horrible experiences.Laura Lynn 00:50:57 Mhmm.Mhmm.Lorilee Binstock 00:51:02 In a very compassionate way. And so for me, it was, you know, I was sexually abused by my biological father, so I was... It was really hard for me to go through that. AndLaura Lynn 00:51:09 MhmmYeah.Lorilee Binstock 00:51:13 I'm not saying I for... I don't wanna say forgive because there's so many ways to forgive or... But I... We had a better understanding because in my own experience, I was ableto see his childhood.Laura Lynn 00:51:26 Yes.Lorilee Binstock 00:51:26 So in so I saw his childhood and I sawLaura Lynn 00:51:27 Yes.Lorilee Binstock 00:51:30 his abuse.Laura Lynn 00:51:31 Mhmm. Yep.Lorilee Binstock 00:51:31 And I wasn't in angry anymore. I felt... Like, I I felt compassion. I was like, oh my god. She didn't know better. This is all he knew.Laura Lynn 00:51:39 Exactly yes.Lorilee Binstock 00:51:39 Whereas before that, I was just like, oh, god. He she should have known better. He was an adult, but that's not the sense. That's not reality. And soLaura Lynn 00:51:43 Yes yes.MhmmLorilee Binstock 00:51:49 after that session,I let go of so much anger,Laura Lynn 00:51:53 Oh, that's good.Lorilee Binstock 00:51:54 like, the anger like I'm am not as angry.As I want what, like, little things would set me off. So...Laura Lynn 00:52:00 Mhmm.Lorilee Binstock 00:52:01 So then I took this step up topsilocybin which the magic mushroomsand there, I experienced a whole host of itemotions. Like, I I literally went throughthe cycle of all the trapped emotions that I had in mymy system,and I cried and I laughed, and I I I mean, my it was probably like, whoa. I'm sure they see all kinds of stuff, but I was just, like, cryingLaura Lynn 00:52:25 You.Lorilee Binstock 00:52:27 hysterical then laughing hysterical, and it was justin in in that release of all of the energy,really made. I felt so much lighter after it.Laura Lynn 00:52:38 Nice.Lorilee Binstock 00:52:38 And then eventually, I went to the Lsi route. Andthat was... I I... That I was able to understand patterns.Like I was understanding I'm whole host of patterns like, oh, I need to break that pattern and that pattern, that pattern.Laura Lynn 00:52:50 Okay.Mhmm.Lorilee Binstock 00:52:55 And so it's really, really helped to meBut I would say I I would say, like, the and the the magic mushroomsunder, like, under guide.Laura Lynn 00:53:03 Mhmm.Lorilee Binstock 00:53:06 Really really helped me because I never felt like, yes, I was able to get let go of that anger, but I still had some anger that was trapped in there. For, you know, because my trauma led to other traumaLaura Lynn 00:53:16 Mhmm. Yeah. That's true.Lorilee Binstock 00:53:17 and so I was able to during the the mushroomjourney,I was able toget out of that thatthat real hold onto to whatever anger,residual angerthat was still there.And then understand. It's... Like you said earlier, Like, awarenessis really the key to everything. And I don't think there's anything that makes you more aware of, like, your reality versusLaura Lynn 00:53:37 Mhmm.Yes.Lorilee Binstock 00:53:44 your past realities than, you know, psychedelics. Because I feel like it expands that. Like, our realities are our own realities are what we... You know, what someone told us were supposed to be growing up in our own experiences. And I think I could know, it's really just cracks it open. It's like, this is... This is this what's real. There's so many realities that are out there.Laura Lynn 00:53:51 YeahYeah.Mhmm.True.Lorilee Binstock 00:54:08 So, yes,I I am actually doing a documentaryonLaura Lynn 00:54:11 Yeah.Lorilee Binstock 00:54:13 Psychedelic Healing following me of VeteranLaura Lynn 00:54:14 Nice.Lorilee Binstock 00:54:16 andin an athlete who it who had healed from traumatic brain injuriesfrom it. Soyes, you can... I I mean, I think you... If you if you go to my account you can see if you go into the link, you'll findthat there's is a link tothe teaseror the proof of concept of the doctor That, you know, you or anyone kids can take a look at.And so that's what that's my current project. Because I... I'm so passionate about it. Like,Laura Lynn 00:54:46 Yeah. That's difficult.Lorilee Binstock 00:54:48 I don't think I could be... I don't think I could be a sinner for psychedelics, but, you know, I I can do something. I can educate and, like, you, you sound so much healing through therapyLaura Lynn 00:54:52 MhmmMhmm.Lorilee Binstock 00:54:58 that you in turnbecame a hit therapist, And I think once people find that healing,Laura Lynn 00:55:03 Mhmm.Lorilee Binstock 00:55:04 they're, like, how do how do I help other people? And I think this is... This is where we are in our journey Right?Laura Lynn 00:55:10 Yeah. Yeah.Yeah. Definitely. And,you know, I'm glad you brought that up about, you know, seeing your abuser, like, like, how what they went through because that's what I realized with mind too like... And it's and it's like a generational pattern. Right? Unless unless it stops,Lorilee Binstock 00:55:26 Mhmm.Laura Lynn 00:55:29 And I feel like, you know, we're the ones that are stopping it, and we're shifting the whole, like, energy of our own lineageLorilee Binstock 00:55:33 Right.Laura Lynn 00:55:39 But, yeah, Like, it's a lot of people don't knowlike,like they try to do the best account what they know. And if they don't know that much, then that's that's all they know. So, like,Lorilee Binstock 00:55:50 Exactly.Laura Lynn 00:55:51 I know and it it's really sad because, you know,like,there's so much wisdom in all of this. And if people just knew about these things and they could make the connection and realizations,and, like, have compassion for those that are, you know,not doing things that people shouldn't be doing. Is because of their own experiences is like, hurt people hurt people,Lorilee Binstock 00:56:15 Right.Laura Lynn 00:56:15 but alsoyou people help people. So hear you and me are, like, we better healing. And we're we're here to emails spread the word of, like,different ways to heal and how important it is.Lorilee Binstock 00:56:29 Absolutely.Yes.Well, Laura, thank you so much for joining me today. I feel like we we we covered a wide range of things, and I reallyLaura Lynn 00:56:38 Yeah.Lorilee Binstock 00:56:39 love learning a lot more about therapy and realize I'm actually doing, like, I guess, a form of therapy because I do feel like internal family systems...Laura Lynn 00:56:46 Yeah.Lorilee Binstock 00:56:49 You mentioning that, I felt...My guess, you know, it it it's it's it's legit. I really... I'm finding so much healing through that as well.Laura Lynn 00:56:54 Yeah.Lorilee Binstock 00:56:58 So thank you so much. I really appreciate it.Laura Lynn 00:57:01 Oh, no. Thank you. So super fun.Lorilee Binstock 00:57:03 Oh, good. I'm so glad.Well, thanks again, That was Laura Lynn hypnotherapist, energy healer and medical intuitive, for more information on Laura, You can click on that scrolling fortune cookie in the middle of your screen that'll will take you to her Instagram page. Also, Mark issue of authentic insider is out. Laura has actually contributed to July twenty twenty two issues. So if you wanna go ahead and check all past issues out, you can go to authentic insider or check it out at trauma thrive dot com. That's trauma survivor thriver dot com, And you can findall the issues and, again, the latest issue If you haven't already, please subscribe to my email listthat can be at trauma survivor thriver dot com. You can get authentic insider in your magazine monthly,Again, thank you so much for being a part of the conversation.Join me next week when on March eighth, when I speak with author, Christine,Mcdonald's would be... That's actually the day of her book release face value from working the poll to bury my soul.We will be discussing how some of her childhood traumas led to her becoming an adult entertainer, which eventually led her to find healing and life as an author.You've been listening to A Trauma Survivor Thriver's podcast on Fireside.I'm Lorilee Binstock, again, thank you for being a part of the conversation.Take care.
This is a LIVE replay of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast which aired Wednesday, February 15th, 2023 at 1130am ET on Fireside Chat.
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This is a LIVE replay of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast which aired Wednesday, February 8th, 2023 at 1130am ET on Fireside Chat.
Today’s guest is Jenni Rochelle.Jenni is a coach, mentor, host of “Beauty After Betrayal” and the go-to expert on love and relationships for women who don’t want to give up on love.
Inspired by her clients and informed by her own journey, Jenni teaches women how to move through trauma and break old patterns so they can stop the cycle of toxic relationships and create the happiest and healthiest intimate connections of their lives.
This is a LIVE replay of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast which aired Wednesday, February 1st, 2023 at 1130am ET on Fireside Chat.
Today on A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast, we’ll be talking with Kesha Chanel, an abundant life coach specializing in trauma recovery, co-author of the best-selling book, "Cry, Forgive, Learn, Let go" and Author of the upcoming book “I Feel Better Already.”
Instagram: iamkeshachanel
For more info on Kesha Chanel
This is a LIVE replay of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast which aired Wednesday, January 25th, 2023 at 1130am ET on Fireside Chat.
Today's Guest is Corinne Coppola, Mental Health Coach, IFS Practitioner, Trauma Recovery Specialist and Founder of R.E.S.T Retreats.
Lorilee Binstock 00:01:06 Welcome. I'm Lorilee Binstock and this is A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s PodcastThank you so much for joining me live on a Fireside chat you can be a part of the conferencestation as my virtual audience. I am your host, Lorilee Binstock.Everyone has an opportunity to ask me or our guest questions byrequesting to hop on stage or sending a message in the chat boxI will try to get to you as soon as I can, but I do ask everybody be respectful.Today's guest is Current Cop, mental health coach, isspractitioner trauma recovery specialist,and founder of rest retreatscurrent, thank you so much for joining me today.
Corinne Coppola 00:02:05 You're welcome, Marlene. My pleasure, and it's just tolet you know the pronunciation is Cor.
Lorilee Binstock 00:02:11 Cuppaula. Thank you so much for for correcting me because I probably would call youin the whole time. So thank you so much.
Corinne Coppola 00:02:19 No problem. No problem.
Lorilee Binstock 00:02:23 Well, first of all, I wanna talk about your journey to get you to where you are now.Really, what made you want to workas a mental health coach.
Corinne Coppola 00:02:32 It'sa really good question. I never thought I wind up here for sure.When I was a little girl, I told my parents that I wanted to becounselor, you know, back then, it was called countwe're not therapist and they said, well, you're not gonna earn any money doing
Lorilee Binstock 00:02:50 Mhmm
Corinne Coppola 00:02:52 you better go into business. So that's what I did at the time.And then I found my wayis in the business world for a number of years worth for profit for profit,have my masters and organization development, and then justradio and Mindfulness as a practice to helpground me, keep me steady. I had three young the children at thetimeAnd I thought, wow, This is really a way that I can help servicepeople and help them because it helped those practicethis really helped me so much. And thenI started teaching, and then I worked for a long profit bringing wine centers to thisand I started working on retreats andthings just... And then I was brought to a cactus
Lorilee Binstock 00:03:42 Yeah.
Corinne Coppola 00:03:43 called Internal family systems. And I thought, wow, This is really phenomenal.And powerful for me and my own healing journeyand I thought I reallywanna be able to do this with people. So thatthey can also rewrite their past.And that's how I got to where I am.That being said, there's also, you know, some traumas around mychildhood and my adult wife that came to play intobeing motivated to heal.You know? And that how nowI am working with people and one on one of small groups andleading retreats andI could notthe more alignment and more grateful andhappy.Itself
Lorilee Binstock 00:04:31 That's so wonderful.You know, it's it's interesting. You... You know, you were workingin a traditional settingeven though you were wereyou know,empowered by mindfulnessBut was it the trauma that actuallyhad youmove to towards, you know, being the founder ofthese retreats and and
Corinne Coppola 00:04:58 Mhmm.Mhmm.
Lorilee Binstock 00:04:58 all of this and even trauma recoveryI know that you are specialist with was there was theresomething that clicked where you said. This is what... I wanna go this route.To help people recover from trauma.
Corinne Coppola 00:05:11 Yeah. That is such a great question, Laura.We'll we piecing it together by your great questions.So, yes, the answer is yes. Well, when I first started,taking yoga.I belong to a gym, and one of my girlfriends just like, oh, you've gotta ayou gotta come to this eight am Sunday class and like,No. That is my hurting to down. No. No.That won't be happening. And theThe other side of that, actually, when I began my younger jury,my youngest... My oldest daughter was only about two years old, Eighteen monthsto two years and I was working part time finishing my masters part time And one of my friends had saidyou really gotta try yoga the class like, okay. What else?Andwithfor those are you familiar with yoga, Isthe final relaxation pose. And when I went into Last,I felt like I was home.
Lorilee Binstock 00:06:11 Mm-mm
Corinne Coppola 00:06:13 I was like, wow. This is pretty powerful.But then I had my second child, and I haddifficult birth. So, like, I wasn't, you know, it it wasn't then what it isnow because he's twenty two. My daughter is twenty four.And I have another son. Who's twenty, you know, twenty years ago, there wasn't the knowledgethatprenatal yoga was okay for women who had complications.So then fast forward to my youngest being threeAnd my girlfriend inviting me to thisclass at the gym and I... And she was a phenomenal instructor finally, I wentshe's a phenomenal director, and I thoughtOkay. I'm gonna get back to yoga in a serious way.So found studio that was close to my house andthat I had originally gone to years before.And started to do additional classes there.And while there? I was volunteering at the front dashand there was a buckby a woman by the name of maya.And it was about how she healed herself.
Lorilee Binstock 00:07:22 Mhmm.
Corinne Coppola 00:07:23 From like stage for cancer through our youpractices that were in her background, that she had been a go go go, you know,fashion designer in New york and it was called a path of practice.AndI was just fascinated by that, andMonday, I was ina group setting. I was in a trauma recovery group.Myself is a participant for sexual abuse. I hadexperienced from a close family memberandI hadn't had these memories until I was forty. I am now fifty six.SoI thought to myself when I was in that group, I it just came to me.Like. Oh,This is how yoga has been so healing for me.I have to bring these practices to women and children.You know? And from there, it was Gave Emersonand BestI think I was in their second cohost of a fortrauma forI mean you excuse me yoga for trauma.And my journey sort of juststarted to unravel from there. Started to... I I wentmyself on a retreat for womensurvivors of sexual violence, and then they invited me back the nextyear to co. So I co that retreatfor ten years, and it was sopowerfulfor me to see the transformation that could happen in two and a half days.And
Lorilee Binstock 00:09:05 Mm-mm
Corinne Coppola 00:09:06 by being in nature by being in play.We weren't talking about our stories. Right? We were in our bodies. There wasmovement, light yoga, drama, some meditation,you know, just really back to being a kid.And so then in myin my jury, Iunfortunately, when my daughter was fourteen, so this is about this wasten years ago, there is a suicide cluster athigh school. And I thought to myself, I can't just siton the sidelines lines with us and knowing how thesepractices. We select practices can really holdI was able to partner with a organization that wasjust blossom. This is twenty thirteen, andyou know,I said to them, we have to bring these practices to thisschools in Northern Virginia, which is where I was living at the time.And it's sort ofcame from that. I worked with them for four years. We got the school board involved.We had a lot of high schools, you know,hundreds and then into the thousands of young people and adultsyou know, the teachers in the parents andfrom there started to do started to coand manage retreats for teens, and that also adults andnow here I am.SoYeah. It's just sort of, like, following the next best thing.Right? The next best that, like, I did not havelike, the super planvision.And at the same time,like, I didn't have a pass, but I had a vision.
Lorilee Binstock 00:10:53 Mhmm.
Corinne Coppola 00:10:56 Okay. So, like, I knewnine, ten years ago when I was in close to read that,I wanna leave a retreat back here in Costa Rica, And thisMarx,I'm leading her retreat my first retreat and close rica gut. SoI would really you know, for me, it's just been following the bread.You know? And with the intention to serve,the intention to serve, like, howcan I use my guess?To serve.And in the same time,you know, make a living.SoundThat'sit's a long answer to your shared question.
Lorilee Binstock 00:11:35 No. I love it. Thank you so much.I love what you're talking about when when you talk about youryour experience and this retreat would it was justplay. It was your in your body, you want in your head,Is thatwhat your rest retreats are, could you talk a little bit about that?I... It's a it's an acronym. Right?Right.
Corinne Coppola 00:11:57 Right. Right. It's an acronym. So the r is for relaxed.
Lorilee Binstock 00:12:04 Yeah
Corinne Coppola 00:12:03 The x is for... The excuse me. Theye is for examine. The s more surrender.And the t stands for transformation.Sothese retreats that I guide people onare different than the survival retreatsthat I did. There are elements.In this retreat.Soand I also give one on oneVip retreats out in Shank critique Virginia where I live parttime on the eastern shore.And sothe rest will be in the firsttwo days, you know, as people sort of enterwe're doing arelaxation, integration, arriving,The second day, I have a healer who's gonna do a beautiful sound journeyus. You know, then eighty three, we got it three and four we get into examine. Right? What patternsbecause my the retreat is called killing the heart.So what patterns haveorigin in which I am notlivingto the potential of who I can beinner world.Right? It's sort of beginning to whatcalled ex the heart.So practices, like,each each day, will be seen out. So, for example, covered in compassion.Right. Love and letting go. So we have to letgo of some things in order and have compassion for ussoundsand the honors so that we can... We can be on this continuumpeeling. Then you know, they're surrenderHave a surpriseplanned, but we also have a magnificent breath thatwill be reading us in a workshopyou in terms of letting go, there'll be Journaling There'll be Archmasked team movielocks in nature.And then we get to keyRight. That the acid surrender where we're letting and go andwe haveI'm just gonna say we have a musician coming in.To really help us let go on our levels.We'll be doing sunset.Fire circle. And then the t is for transformation in the lasttwo days the last day is a cacao ceremonywith awoman psychologist who I met last year who was down there, and she'sfrom close to Rica and just this beautiful healing hardthree hours ceremony yummy that we'll be having. And I'm keeping it small.Intentionally, you know, eleven spots.With some women who arereally justphenomenal and are there to dosome deep work. You know, this... It's nottherapy. It's not... You know, that's not what I'mwhat what my intention is, it's reallyto create the safe community safe sacred community.Thatwomen can show upas their best sounds, like,all of their parts parts thathave been forgotten.Like, who was I? When I was six seven eight years old andI was magic and
Lorilee Binstock 00:15:43 mm-mm
Corinne Coppola 00:15:44 who took away that magic, like, loving reconnectwith that spirit, that sacred insideso thatI can then bring these practices into my life.Andlive in a way that is in alignment withwho I wanna be and who I am.
Lorilee Binstock 00:16:04 Well, nick... You know,you talked aboutand make hear you talking about parts. I have a lot of respectfor I. I'm actually an I Therapy every week.Is do you bring that toyour respiratory retreats.
Corinne Coppola 00:16:19 Soit depends on
Lorilee Binstock 00:16:26 Mm-mm.
Corinne Coppola 00:16:26 what the client wantsRight? So for the one on one,Yes. Absolutely. For this small group,retreats
Lorilee Binstock 00:16:39 Mhmm.
Corinne Coppola 00:16:38 this is not is not the focus. However,I can't not do it.Meaning that... You know, that's who I am isyou know, speaking in, like, some of the journaling questwill be internal family system based, but it's not as ifwe're going to be having therapeutic sharing circles. Right?
Lorilee Binstock 00:17:00 Mhmm.
Corinne Coppola 00:17:01 That we're gonna be doing parts work.That's another type of retreat that I host. Soyou know, it is... There will be parts workAnd at the same time, it's not going begroup therapy.People are there also to... Like, what's really important to me isthe four or five hours of quiet time that we'll have every afternoon.
Lorilee Binstock 00:17:22 Yay.
Corinne Coppola 00:17:25 So if you wanna sit by the pool and be quiet,That's awesome we'll go to your room, take a nap. You wanna go intoexcursions to go kayak, horse horseback writing,lessons, you go do it, Zip lining, you know,so that people can reallycustomize this experience to what they feel. They want and needto thatyou know, everything is optional. That's really, really aimportant to me is to give everyone choice.
Lorilee Binstock 00:17:52 You lasts
Corinne Coppola 00:17:55 You know?Because we're all adults.And oftentimes in life, we feel like we don't have choices.I mean, you know, that's free. I can only... I should only speak for myself.
Lorilee Binstock 00:18:05 No. I feel that too.I feel that too. I feel last week, I actually gotten a ski accidentAnd I feel like I could have a... I I there I havechoices to say, I need to rest. This is before the accident.Because my life was just jam packed with so much stuff andtrying to catch up from the end of last year.You know, from the holidays. And I was like, oh my gosh. I need a break, but I
Corinne Coppola 00:18:33 Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:18:33 just felt like I couldn't get a break until I literally gotten in a little skiingthen all of a sudden, and I was in bed for a week, and I was like, I really feel like the universe is listening to me.
Corinne Coppola 00:18:40 Okay.
Lorilee Binstock 00:18:43 But, yes, it was it was really, you know,there are times where I'm like, I feel like I'm in adult, and I don't have a choice. Like, I have
Corinne Coppola 00:18:48 DidWe
Lorilee Binstock 00:18:52 to cook dinner. I have to, you know, I you know, Ito do all these things. So it's nice. You know, I've looked at your treats so I'm like, oh, isyou know, this would be amazing for me. Unfortunately, my husbandbe leaving to go out of the country during that time. So I havebe with my children, but I am looking forward to going to one of your retreats.
Corinne Coppola 00:19:12 Oh, beautiful.
Lorilee Binstock 00:19:15 Yes. I
Corinne Coppola 00:19:16 Well, I'm sorry to hear about your your skiing accident.
Lorilee Binstock 00:19:20 you know, it's really funny becauseI I literally was telling my my If practitioner nor the week before I'm like, I justfeel likeI I need a break. I need a break. I can'tI feel like I keep going going going, and I feel guiltyI would feel guilty if I was, like, I needI I'm gonna be in bed.The thing is the universe heard me and was like, okay. We'll do this. And... You know,my leg wasn't hurting when I was resting, but it was it was hurting when I was walking.
Corinne Coppola 00:19:46 Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:19:49 So or attempting to. So I I felt likeknow, it's one of things here you're you need to break. People need breaksand
Corinne Coppola 00:19:56 Mhmm.
Lorilee Binstock 00:19:59 sometimes it'll be a forced one.
Corinne Coppola 00:19:59 Right.
Lorilee Binstock 00:20:03 And sometimes it's gonna come at the most in opportune timesAnd I think what I've learned through my healing journey is thatyou know, everything kind happens for a reason. Everything happens for reason. This isthe their signs and signals that are telling us, you know, it's time to rest, and then we itit's our choice to listen and not listen.
Corinne Coppola 00:20:21 Right. I love that.Like, oftentimes, They'll say to my clients and not only my clients, butyou know, in general, it just comes out of my mat. Like, you're exactly where you're supposed to be.
Lorilee Binstock 00:20:30 Mhmm.
Corinne Coppola 00:20:33 That really helps mewhen On in a phone,you know, when I am feeling, like, really,This is really what's happening. Right.I'm right where I'm supposed to beand then the gratitude practice. I mean, I am the hugehuge believerof howand sciences proves it, you know, But of how gratitude has reallychanged my life.
Lorilee Binstock 00:20:58 Mhmm.
Corinne Coppola 00:21:01 You know, the the thing that it most importantly has led me tois the characteristic of acceptance.
Lorilee Binstock 00:21:08 Yeah.
Corinne Coppola 00:21:09 Wait.How can I be really thankful for theturmoil of that's happening right now in my life?You know, or in a relationshipAndthen maybe not at that moment.You know, I'm not able to see the the good in it, but still on being thanksfor it because then Iusually, it is revealed to methatyou know,I am able to seewhatOh,
Lorilee Binstock 00:21:43 Mhmm.
Corinne Coppola 00:21:40 just like what you said, you know what the purpose? Oh,this is leading me to more forgiveness.
Lorilee Binstock 00:21:45 Yeah
Corinne Coppola 00:21:47 Okay.
Lorilee Binstock 00:21:49 it's so funny how long it took me to figure that out. It took me
Corinne Coppola 00:21:51 Mhmm.
Lorilee Binstock 00:21:53 so long because people be like, in justgrateful. You know, I would have those to do list, like those like, paddedto do list papers that have says, like, you know, here's yourhere's a little checkbox box and here right, what you have to doAnd at the top of the page, it would say,I am grateful for blank, and I'm like, oh, that's interesting.And I would never write it it. I would just write my list.And I and I'm like... I never understood thethe power of gratitude andit's also interesting because when I think about earlier in our conversation, you talked about
Corinne Coppola 00:22:28 Mhmm.Mhmm.
Lorilee Binstock 00:22:29 you know, the courts pose when when you found chance for and it's
Corinne Coppola 00:22:32 Mhmm.
Lorilee Binstock 00:22:33 transformation and epiphany in that moment.You know, before I went into treatment before I wasyou know, went to residential treatment, and I would do yoga. I did... II did yoga for, you know,so lengthening and strengthening and flexibilityAnd when we would get into And pose, I would literally sit there and think about. Okay.
Corinne Coppola 00:22:58 Mhmm. Mhmm.
Lorilee Binstock 00:22:56 So what are the things I need to do today? And I never understoodthe importance of Because when I went to treatment,was like, I learned this whole idea that Iswhere you're integratingyour practice. And I'm like, really? And that changed my life. Itit's funny the things that people tell you becauseyou know, people like, oh, exhausted is important. I'm like, oh, yeah. Rest is an important shirt, whatever.And then I you know, you you move on and you do your thing, and then youyou realize, like,it it just took me so long to really absorb
Corinne Coppola 00:23:33 Okay.
Lorilee Binstock 00:23:33 the the the practice of rest, the practice of gratitude,
Corinne Coppola 00:23:37 Mhmm.
Lorilee Binstock 00:23:38 I'm telling you that really changed everything.For me, at least
Corinne Coppola 00:23:42 Yeah. Yeah. I hear you. You preaching to the prayer becauseknow, what I did used to teach public and privatethe classes. You know, I would sayIs the most important pose, andit's also something that you can take at any time you know? Andit'ssomething that
Lorilee Binstock 00:24:05 Mhmm.
Corinne Coppola 00:24:04 we don't do, like, and and oftentimes,that's what happens is we're we're resting and then everything fitsto the surface. So when people come in,meditation retreats. It's likeyou know, what they call flo strawbecause people start falling asleep the first, you know, day or two because they realizehow tiring their body is.
Lorilee Binstock 00:24:28 Yes.
Corinne Coppola 00:24:29 You know, that it's like the had nod andpeople can't stay awake, and that's just likea normal andyou know, part of what happens it's like, oh, this is what happens when Idial it down. And there's an officer and speaker name isSandra Dawn Smith. I don't know if he's... She's gonna book called sacred rest.Andshe identifies seven different types of reps, whichI can't rattle off the top of my head right now.But I just think that is so such an interestingperspective to look at oh, often ten pagesfeel rest as like the physical, but there's also emotional rash
Lorilee Binstock 00:25:12 Yay,
Corinne Coppola 00:25:12 social rest, you know, all these different types of rest.That we need, like, sometimes social recipes,interacting with others. Sometimes social recipes means, oh, I need to pull back.You know? And andit's not just as you know, it's not justwhat often type, like spa andyou know? No. No. No. No. No.No. No. It can be for me, what a Mypractices is between three and four o'clock every day.I don't schedule calls or meetingsor anything between three and four so thatmaybe it is used to respond to emails, but there's usuallyat least a ten minuteten minute window that I havefor myself that I have to go meditatepray orthat I do put my head down on a pillow becausethat completelyrefresh us and something that I learned that you might already knowis that at three o'clock, like middle afternoon, three Homework o'clock our cortisol level.Lore.And
Lorilee Binstock 00:26:19 I did not know that.
Corinne Coppola 00:26:21 this whole practice that I startedstarted over the pandemic. I was noticing that... Oh, I'mpretty tired right now. And three or four o'clock withwas the time when my second day began,right? And I would work until three or four, and then I go pick the kids up inschool, take them to different activities go over below.And then when that didn't happen during the pan,I was able to listen to my body, and I was like, oh, isn't this interesting?
Lorilee Binstock 00:26:48 Wow.
Corinne Coppola 00:26:52 So that's how it sort of came up for me. It's not like, oh,let me do this. It was me listening to my body.
Lorilee Binstock 00:26:56 Yes.Absolutely. I I... It's it's it's so... It's so hard to listenyour body when there's so many things going on.So, yes, I think that quiet time that meditation time isis the time for, you know, to really be able to listen to what's happening there.I do wanna ask
Corinne Coppola 00:27:17 Mhmm.
Lorilee Binstock 00:27:19 what does it take totruly achievetransformation.
Corinne Coppola 00:27:26 Yeah.First to all. That is a great question.I when retract the word achieve.
Lorilee Binstock 00:27:35 Mhmm.
Corinne Coppola 00:27:35 And so what does it take to aachieve transformation becausethat then makes it a goal.Right, which we all want, like we all wantthere's differentlife, like, right before this call, I happen to be at a in ayoga class, and the the teacher was just notice.AndI said... You need to be teaching in Costa Rica, and I didn't know that she wasandyou know, how did the teacher trading program of this studio and then a little block?She's like, well, you know, I have my kids and Da. AndI thought... Yeah. Yeah. But you can maybe goguest teach. You know to myself. And, like, whatwhat could the possibilities be?So I think one of the first things we have to get out of our own wayAnd when I say we have to get out of our own way,people talk all the time about, like,letting go of limiting beliefs.I don't know flip that on the head, maybe andmaybe open yourself toa possibility.Andopen yourself to the possibility ofwhat do I really enjoy doing? Maybe it's baking cookies.And you startbaking cookies these a little bit more and giving them away. And then all of a sudden,you have a cookie business.
Lorilee Binstock 00:28:59 Yeah.
Corinne Coppola 00:29:02 Yeah. I'm saying. Wait, It's just reallyandasking yourself the question,if I didn't have to be perfect atI would like to blankRight? If I didn't need to be perfect,what what is one thing that really lights me up?What is the one thing? And it may beI... You know,andand and it's out at this moment. Like, I didn't know when I startedon this path, like, when I started taking Yoga again,that I would somedaybe
Lorilee Binstock 00:29:43 Mhmm
Corinne Coppola 00:29:43 an internal family sister's practitioner, mental health coachand running retreats. Like,I didn't have that vision. I just knew thattaking yoga that and then maybe teaching you love becausewhat I did in the past,you know, part of my job with presentation when Iworked in organization development, and Itrained people in parents management, and They trained people oncareer consulting. You know? Soand and leadership development. And I... So I knew that I lovedgetting up in front of groups. I had no problem doing that.And then the passion that I had for Yoga,because of how it was healing me and it was allowing me to be in my body.Well, I wanted to bring thatto everybody. So then I, you know, got into a teacher training, and the teacher training about ben waslikeyou know, two years long, every other weekend, I did three hundred hours. Sowent out to Montana. So that's what I would say is the first step is justsharelike, be open say quietly and say,what does really lighten me out?Do I really love playing pick?You know? I mean,what do I lovedoing. Do I love gathering people?Andmaybe you... Maybe you love cooking and you want to have aVegan cooking quad like, I'm not making this up. You know, whatWhat is it thatlight you on a fire.And then follow that. So that's the firstthing that I would say. And then the second thing isacceptance.Lake,you know, so that you'reyou're open and acceptingofwhatever is happeningin that moment, Like, I went through a water suffering, and Istill go through suffering. You know, it's not... It's not like, oh,I'm happy go lucky and the... You know, it happens to bea great day today onblessed enough to be on this call with you. I went to yoga the class. Iwalk the die. I did some work before all that.You know? But it's it's having this themea gratitudeand when you're grateful soul throughout the day, and then your moreaccepting of... Okay.Well,myyoungyou know, my child's stark at me or mymy partner, you know,made a reallyin inappropriate comma lakewhat am I doing to accept what is happening?So that I don't have to be in suffering.And suffering happens whenwe want things to be different than than they are.And I'm gonna hear to tell you, like, there was a daywhen I was going through my divorce, but I had two hundred and sixty dollarsin my checking account,and I'm speaking to myself.What am I gonna do?What am I gonna do?So I could sit there.And I couldcomplainAnd I can think of all the ways that this wasn't fair.OrI canthe grateful form go for walk.Shift my perspective. You know, I have a house, and my kids are healthy.You know, I have food andin my cover that I can make for dinner, and it's not always gonna be thisway.Like, the two words that are helpful for transformation, I feelare for now.This is only happening for now.Good bad.
Lorilee Binstock 00:33:19 Yes.
Corinne Coppola 00:33:22 In betweenyou know?So those are some of... That's how I think I wouldyou know, answer your question is more aroundlike, acceptance being with what else.Acceptance.And then, you know,for now.And and knowing what what lights you up,you know, what are you passionate about?And it's if I was doing what I'm doingnow it's not like, I woke up at a bed and who's was like, oh, I'm gonna run retreats and
Lorilee Binstock 00:33:53 Yeah
Corinne Coppola 00:33:52 mister week. No. I didn't have something in that way. It's taken me ten years.
Lorilee Binstock 00:33:56 mm-mm
Corinne Coppola 00:33:57 Right. So
Lorilee Binstock 00:33:59 Wow.
Corinne Coppola 00:33:59 anyway,
Lorilee Binstock 00:34:01 Did... Is this is this what you hope?For your clients,after they leave your retreats,
Corinne Coppola 00:34:07 And then, absolutely, thatand and that has happened. And even, you know, just inand when I work with clients one on one,it can be so powerful, like I a clientthis past week that she's had a lot grief in her life.You know, three of her brothers passed away while she was growing up. I mean, it's just reallyheartbreaking. Andwhen she came into connection,withher griefAnd it felt like these cotton balls in her chest and that it wasjust all of her heart breaks and she was able to turn towards that and have compassionsupport. She's now much openand loving in her relationship with her partner.Because she had a fearbeing in an intimate relationshipbecause of all the grief from now she's had in her life, and she's also were
Lorilee Binstock 00:35:02 No.
Corinne Coppola 00:35:03 a young widow. You know, she was a young widow. Soyou know, it's really aboutgiving people hopethat you're hopeful about the future that they'reis a purpose tomy life, and then I can start over anda couple of my clients that have beento one on one retreats to me out, and she could takethey know are establishingreally thriving businesses because of someyou know, past things that they were able to let go of.So once you clear that out, right, it's the ex of the heart.Once we clear that out,then it's like we can be open to the nextthingAnd at the same time, during those transitions being open to the grief,like,I'm an empty nest, and I thought I've been an empty semester sincethe fall of twenty twenty one and I thought, okay. Well,you know, a year, I'll be, you know, on this little bit of a roller closephysically. But, you know, I gotta tell you the fall hitof twenty twenty two, and that griefwas there a little differently, but it was still there.Soyou know, just being withwhat is happening and accepting it and not pushing it away.Right? It's really about turning towards the difficult stuff.When we turn towards it, and we can have compassion and we stop running from it.Then we can understand what the message is.What that part is needing, what we're eatingSo I can talk all day about this, Obviously,
Lorilee Binstock 00:36:50 Well, It's... It's amazing.
Corinne Coppola 00:36:53 mhmm.
Lorilee Binstock 00:36:53 What you're doing. And I I do wanna ask how how often do yourstreets go
Corinne Coppola 00:36:57 So
Lorilee Binstock 00:36:59 Do you have them?
Corinne Coppola 00:37:01 yeah. So I'mThis is the first week long that I'm doing her eight nineeight days seven nights. This is the first what I'm doing.All the other ones have been weekend retreats, you know, three daystwo nights. I'm planning on expandingthis coming fall to doing themfour days three nights and, you know, partnering with different people.Andafter I do my one in Costa going and come back to these
Lorilee Binstock 00:37:34 Mhmm.
Corinne Coppola 00:37:32 post I'm actually going to be going on a road trip.So I'll be focusing mostlysomy online clientele and not doing any physicalandretreats until the fall of twenty twenty three.
Lorilee Binstock 00:37:48 Awesome.
Corinne Coppola 00:37:49 Mhmm. Mhmm.
Lorilee Binstock 00:37:51 Well, that's great. I will be looking for. Please keep me posted on those.Because yeah,
Corinne Coppola 00:37:53 I will. I willpressure.
Lorilee Binstock 00:37:57 and wanna hear more. Is there anything else you'd like to add?
Corinne Coppola 00:38:02 That is such a great question.I would like to addand might not do this justice, butthe quote.Like, even doing the smallest things with the greatest amount of love.
Lorilee Binstock 00:38:18 Oh
Corinne Coppola 00:38:19 That no matter where you are in your life right now,How can I show up?With the most loved for myself or the others, Like, even if it'sdoing laundry.Like, can I do this?In a loving way in a grateful way.Andjust doing the smallest things with the greatest lives becauseit's really not that hard to be kind.AndI just went tosee a man named auto last night.And it was just such a lovely movie.In terms of howin terms of, like, a testament to how kindnesssmall kindness.Can change your life and save a life.
Lorilee Binstock 00:39:03 Mhmm.Yeah. I
Corinne Coppola 00:39:05 Say that's really what I would say. Is just even in thesmallest ways, like,It so might sound corny, but right, before you pick up the phone to make a call,that has to be potentiallyhonor, like a service calls for an Internet problem.Right? Can you smile?And send the person live on the other side becausethey're doing the best they can too.
Lorilee Binstock 00:39:32 Yeah.
Corinne Coppola 00:39:33 So
Lorilee Binstock 00:39:34 Yeah.
Corinne Coppola 00:39:34 Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:39:36 Well,Current, thank you so much. I really appreciate you joining me today.
Corinne Coppola 00:39:41 Thank you, Laura. It's beenreal real deep honor andfor your for you to extend me your invitation andto have the opportunity to writean article for your magazine. I'm just so honored
Lorilee Binstock 00:39:57 You... I honored for you to join us.And let me... Am I saying your name right? Career?
Corinne Coppola 00:40:03 Yes.Lorilee Binstock 00:40:05 I got it. Alright.Corinne Coppola 00:40:07 You got it more.
This is a LIVE replay of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast which aired Wednesday, January 18th, 2022 at 1130am ET on Fireside Chat.
Today’s guest is David Crow, Author of the multi-award winning Memoir, The Pale-Faced Lie: A True Story. Through grit, resilience, and a thirst for learning, he managed to escape his abusive childhood, graduate from college, and build a successful lobbying firm in Washington, DC. Throughout the years, he has mentored over 200 college interns, performed pro bono services for the charitable organization Save the Children, and participated in the Big Brothers Big Sisters program. As an advocate for women, he will donate a percentage of his royalties from The Pale-Faced Lie to Barrett House, a homeless shelter for women in Albuquerque, New Mexico.
Today’s guest is Deran Young, Internal Family Systems Therapist, Co-Author of the New York Time's Best Seller, "You are Your Best Thing." Psychedelic-Assisted Therapist at Field Trip Health, and Founder of Black Therapists Rock.
This is a LIVE replay of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast which aired Wednesday, November 16th, 2022 at 1130am ET on Fireside Chat.
Today’s guest is Michelle Wagner. A children’s book author and advocate for families with special needs children. The main character in her book series, Mickey, is Michelle’s real life 14-year-old son who was born with hearing loss in both ears and wears Cochlear Implants to aid him in his hearing journey.
Michelle has dedicated her life to making sure Mickey has the best medical care and resources. She assists families as they work together through the different approaches to raising a special needs child.
Transcripts:
Lorilee Binstock 00:01:57
Welcome. I'm Lorilee Binstock, and this is A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast.
Thank you so much for joining me live on Fire side chat where you can be a part of the conversation as my virtual audience. I am your host, Lorilee Binstock. Everyone has an opportunity to ask me or our guest questions by requesting the hop on stage,
but we do ask that everyone be respectful. I will try to get you as soon as possible.
Today's guest is Michelle Wagner, children's book author and advocate for families with special needs children, the main character in her book series Mickey on the move, Mickey,
is Michelle's real life fourteen year old son who was born with hearing loss in both ears and Where cochlear
implants to aid him in his hearing journey.
Michelle has dedicated her life to making sure Mickey has the best medical care and resources, and she insists families
as they work together through the different approaches to facing a special needs child,
Michelle, thank you so much for joining me today.
Michelle M Wagner 00:03:16
Thank you for having me, Laurie.
Lorilee Binstock 00:03:19
Well, you know,
I think this is amazing. You know, you we we kind of compensated briefly...
Through email, but you know, you talked about, I didn't realize it, but Mickey was adopted,
and you didn't know at the time during the adoption
that
Mickey.
There was any hearing loss.
Could you talk a little bit about that process
of adoption.
And when you discovered,
he actually
had some hearing loss.
Michelle M Wagner 00:03:53
Sure.
He so we decided my husband
at time and I decided to adapt,
and I had had
cousin in Ohio had just adapted it to
very sweet
boys
from Russia, actually,
And
we decided to
do the same. We had enough resources, and I researched and met other parents
that went through a bay area here where we live
adoption agency,
and then also
connected
you know, with resources to help guide us through the entire process. It was long about a year and a half. And
when they finally
found Mikey for us and an orphan in Tomorrow,
who's was about sixteen months old,
and we had to take three trips to Russia to visit him,
and he was so sweet and smiley,
and
instantly,
we made a connection with him.
And they had just mentioned that he had ear infections, and it was twenty below zero in cold.
Lorilee Binstock 00:05:03
Mhmm.
Michelle M Wagner 00:05:04
And
that might have been, you know, a significant factor, and he was also born premature.
And once we...
Once the adoption process
was finished, and we brought him back to California,
we shortly there thereafter realized
that he was not hearing,
and we took him to an ear nose and throat specialist.
And
then
to a special hospital Ucsf,
where an cardiologist
in a special team met with us, And they said he was
profoundly deaf in both ears.
So he had no hearing,
and they asked if we wanted a
hearing and speaking trials
or
assigning child, and then we would take the, you know, take it from there. And so we decided to give him every opportunity possible.
And
we he was able to get bilateral
cochlear
implants, so that was implant in both ears, and it was a very
intense operation and time in our lives, and we had a way
you know, to be approved, and then to get the operation and recovery was a couple months,
and
then he was implanted and
his processors were activated,
and he was
three years old at that time.
And now he is fourteen, and he has thriving,
Lorilee Binstock 00:06:31
Mhmm.
Michelle M Wagner 00:06:32
playing sports, and,
you know, we still do speech lessons every day, but the whole entire journey has been extremely rewarding.
Lorilee Binstock 00:06:42
Oh, that's so amazing to hear.
You know, being being a parent
just
without having a child with special needs is is challenging.
Does it like for you through the the whole process and and and raising a child
now he's fourteen with in thriving, which is incredible.
What would you how would you describe
parenting
a special needs child?
Michelle M Wagner 00:07:10
Aside... Aside from being, you know, rewarding, I think it was actually
a gift
and something that
sort of
required me really stepping up
to the plate and
doing the best that I could
you know, they say god doesn't give you anything you can't handle
Lorilee Binstock 00:07:33
Exactly.
Michelle M Wagner 00:07:34
shortly after we adapted him.
My his dad and I separated,
and we went through a pretty lengthy divorce while we were going through the whole
cochlear implant
process,
and,
you know, it had its challenges
I at that time,
you know, I decided to do whatever I needed on my end.
To be the best mom that I could and take this
gift and challenge on
you know, it's the best of my ability.
And,
you know, every everything
now when I look back,
all all everything that we have gone through and are still continuing to go through
has,
I think, me us both, you know, more
empathetic and
Mickey as actually a an extremely empathetic
child.
He really cares for others.
He likes helping others,
and
it's it's been, very rewarding.
Lorilee Binstock 00:08:42
So you wrote a book series
Mickey on the move.
Based on your son.
What brought that on?
Michelle M Wagner 00:08:54
Well, I am I'm a realtor now. And I've been in a business design business, although
Lorilee Binstock 00:08:57
Mhmm
Michelle M Wagner 00:09:00
you know, right at a high school, I went to college for teaching and
that paid off. But, you know, it's actually
the Covid, you know,
Covid.
What hope it gave to us
sort of...
Maybe right the book. I... Mickey and I were living with
my then
rick, and,
you know, we were,
you know, pretty much on lockdown like everybody else.
And
I had had people suggest, you know, I write, you know, other authors, and I always wanted to bring more awareness.
To cochlear implants. I coached every sport, Mickey was on,
Lorilee Binstock 00:09:36
Mhmm.
Michelle M Wagner 00:09:40
you know, baseball Soccer,
and has been you know, an advocate without realizing it really what I was doing was just being his mom
and,
you know, being working from home,
and,
you know, doing more things at home with Mickey to sort of homeschool him and educate him here.
Wow,
you know, we weren't really interacting with the outside world. We got chickens
and
Lorilee Binstock 00:10:06
Mhmm.
Michelle M Wagner 00:10:06
plant bigger garden and
I just really wanted to bring awareness,
and it... You know, I just took a shot of it. And
the first book really ended up kicking off, and that was mickey on the move,
and it did... So. Wow,
You know, let's just by many people that I do a series,
and so,
you know, it took some time, but
I... This like a book came out and it's one a bunch of awards already. And really when and has done is
educate everybody, and I donate to schools
because, you know, we should celebrate
all our unique differences
and the things that make us all special.
And the only way we can really do that is through education.
Lorilee Binstock 00:10:52
Agree.
Absolutely.
A hundred percent. I think that that is such a beautiful
beautiful
way, especially during Covid and you took during this difficult period,
you you just took
this opportunity
to raise awareness
about your son,
and and I just absolutely love that. It's just it's
it's so heartwarming for me when I think about it.
And you know, what was it like for for Mickey?
In school growing up with
these cochlear and implants.
Michelle M Wagner 00:11:37
It was... I mean, he knows really nothing else.
Like, you know, I like I said, he's just... He's received so much love and something that I always like to really emphasize on
is that
adults and children alike,
you know, all we all really need is is love
and,
Lorilee Binstock 00:11:57
Mhmm.
Michelle M Wagner 00:11:58
you know, a little enthusiasm as
and I
never...
I... You know, Making and I did as much as we could.
I'm grateful for the all the time I was able to spend in the classrooms,
You know, he did not attend a typical classroom,
you know, as most children do
until he was
in the fourth grade, and it was here where we live
in the next block.
Which also that inspired my book
because he was able to ride his bike to school when we when we first began, he was at special school.
It was in San Francisco,
and it was a special day class
for children that were just implanted
was a preschool,
and, you know, they really emphasized on speech, and then
that was an hour in a half from our house.
It And then he eventually
got into a school, which was forty five minutes away.
It town called Santa Rosa
And
there, who's also in a special day class with other kids with cochlear implants.
Some of them had some other disabilities
And we just
truly,
you know, went
jumped both heat into everything.
I encourage him to try everything possible
you know, play every sport. We had very long days with a, you know, forty... With basically two hours of driving, and then we would do
you know, speech after school, We've had a wonderful speech therapist
here in our term. Her name is also Michelle.
Lorilee Binstock 00:13:32
Mhmm.
Michelle M Wagner 00:13:33
She's become part of our family.
And,
you know, even now that High school, he is
still seeing her because,
you know, we
just... You know, I... Like I said, like, from the very beginning, both his dad and I wanted to make sure he was able
to access every opportunity possible.
Lorilee Binstock 00:13:58
Wow.
You
any challenges that he face.
Michelle M Wagner 00:14:11
Yeah. I mean, there's a lot of frustration
and there was when he was younger,
not wanting to keep the cochlear and implants earn,
for those people that
don't really know much about cochlear
implants, First of all, it's one of the great advances of modern
medicine.
That that's her true. For Know, they're they're truly
Lorilee Binstock 00:14:32
Mhmm.
Michelle M Wagner 00:14:34
bio
organ,
you know,
very
resisting
from hearing aids.
And and they just... They directly
electrically stimulate the acoustic nerve.
So he has something on the inside of his head, and then on the outside, he wears ten of mini of emitting computer
and stuff with a magnet that attaches to his head. And as anyone can imagine, you know, sometimes kids have a hard time wanting to wear sunscreen or a hat
and making had these magnets on his head,
you know, that sometimes they wanted to rip off. He rather, you know, he would throw off or
you know, in the beginning, there were times I think he had headaches
from then when he was first and planted.
Lorilee Binstock 00:15:19
Mhmm
Michelle M Wagner 00:15:20
And,
you know, with the speech barrier and learning language at an older age.
It was really hard for him to explain what he was wearing on his head.
And
to other children and to other parents. And that really
that really inspired me to write the books
because
now.
And even, you know, when we're traveling,
when I first wrote the book, mickey kind of used the books of a business card.
Lorilee Binstock 00:15:47
Yeah.
Michelle M Wagner 00:15:48
There's a picture of the implant
and what the cochlear looks like. And what's on the inside of his head along with what goes on the outside of his head.
But there... You know, there were the challenges were just trying to explain why
he is quote him unquote different.
Lorilee Binstock 00:16:05
What was his reaction when you published the book?
Did you ask him for a permission to write it in the first place?
Michelle M Wagner 00:16:10
Oh,
Yeah. I yeah You know, I mentioned it to him and he loves books. He especially looked like books. He's very visual.
Lorilee Binstock 00:16:14
Or
Michelle M Wagner 00:16:21
And
And, you know, I just said, I'm gonna write a book
i book about you and book about your cochlear implants so he knew
And then the day, you know, we would,
you know, once I
work for the publisher and got the print
you know, version just like, on my computer or Pdf, I would print it out. We colored it together.
And and then once we receive the card copy of the book, he could not believe it. And I mean, he was just telling everybody. He was,
Lorilee Binstock 00:16:46
Mhmm.
Michelle M Wagner 00:16:50
you know, the best little salesman.
Lorilee Binstock 00:16:53
I bet.
Michelle M Wagner 00:16:55
I he he was just wrote. And then when the second one came out, he was even more thrilled.
And, you know, he is so proud of it, proud about it. He's proud of where he is today, how far he's come
and, you know, all of our our joint achievements.
Lorilee Binstock 00:17:14
So you you did talk about him in sports.
Has there... Has there been any challenges
with with with sports or anything?
Or... It's like anything. It's just a learning curve.
Michelle M Wagner 00:17:30
Yes. Well, no. There...
It had its own set of challenges
up until about three years ago, as cochlear implants there is no way to swim or do any type of water sports with them on.
Lorilee Binstock 00:17:43
Mhmm
Michelle M Wagner 00:17:45
And in the second vocal making began move, farming,
I
I touch on that because now they have developed,
like, aqua calculator leaders,
and it's... You know, you just... You have to
put all these extra devices in waterproof onto cochlear implant.
And making now has had definitely,
you know, adapted to
doing this on his own. But as you can imagine, a young child needs help getting dressed,
And so Mickey always, you know, needed help with with everything. So in the beginning, he
he loves to swim and
he was just... He couldn't hear anything while he was swimming.
So I would teach either other children
swimming with him.
Or when we did swimming lessons as much signing as I could
just... To in order for him to be able to interact
and understand with the other kids
what was going on
and things like that
as far as wearing a magnet and a processor on your head, you can imagine when you're running around, it just falls off.
Lorilee Binstock 00:18:53
yeah.
Michelle M Wagner 00:18:54
And so wait... You know, just talking to other parents
with
that's why I'm always happy to talk to other parents who have children with cochlear player implants.
Some... Another parent had told me about buying wig tape
And because it's like double white tape and just using it on the back of the cochlear so that it sticks to his head.
Lorilee Binstock 00:19:09
Oh.
Have you tried it? Has it worth?
Michelle M Wagner 00:19:17
Oh, we've been doing it since I found out about it. So since was probably four years old,
we've been doing that
because it works better than actually
connecting like a string that it attaches to his clothes to do it.
And
and then as started playing like baseball soccer, all of that,
I found special helmets when he was playing,
like, little league,
and they actually have an extra space inside the helmet.
For
for like, so the cochlear
cochlear implant and the outside has room. But none of this happened overnight. None of this was easy. You know, I meant this is twelve years later. And when I look back now,
Lorilee Binstock 00:19:55
Mhmm.
Michelle M Wagner 00:20:00
you know, it seems
surreal
that we were able to go through that and
be here where we are today because
there was a lot of
you know, very
hard challenging times. And,
you know, I tried to have a positive outlook on everything and
I think my positive attitude
snug on Mickey,
Lorilee Binstock 00:20:24
Mhmm.
Michelle M Wagner 00:20:24
and
he that... And he doesn't
you rarely will see him too frustrated.
And,
you know, my patience
You know, I I mean, it was is what I wanted you. I always wanted to be a mom,
Lorilee Binstock 00:20:41
Mhmm.
Michelle M Wagner 00:20:41
and,
you know, I never imagined getting divorced. Shortly after
finally becoming a arm, especially after, you know, going through a long adapt process.
And it was a hard time for me as well. And
and actually, ten and a half years sober now
Lorilee Binstock 00:21:00
Yeah.
Michelle M Wagner 00:21:00
because I chose
to the the healthiest lifestyle said so that I could have,
you know, really
a lot of clarity with each day, and I could give mickey my all because, like, you know, that was what he deserved and,
you know, thinking now
what might have happened to if he stayed in that door... You know, orphan engine russia.
I just really...
I put him first
And,
you know, I... It's...
You know, I had a lot of support through community and family
and friends
very supportive
of everything. And
I think the best way to, you know, gain support is to be open and to share and I shared
you know,
everything that I was feeling and going through and,
you know, through that today
you know, I don't think that there's anything that comes
our way that we can't try and take on.
Lorilee Binstock 00:22:03
Was there...
And you said
You've been sober for ten years.
Congratulations
that's incredible.
Michelle M Wagner 00:22:11
Thank you.
Lorilee Binstock 00:22:13
Did you have a support system around you to help get you
sober.
Michelle M Wagner 00:22:20
Definitely. The same support so done that making and I have had through, you know,
is,
you know, you know, not being typical in his
implant. I,
you know,
I was...
I say lucky now that I was able to go to a program
rehabilitation program here in the Bay area
so that I could totally take on
learning,
educating myself
about addiction
and, you know, what both processes were kind of
similar. And
I'm
always, you know, I'm person that when I don't know something or when I don't understand something and when Mickey was implanted, we registered
in the John Tracy clinic, which was Southern California,
and it was kind of to teach a parent and child how to live together in a successful way
with with, you know, hearing impairment.
And all the challenges at my, and we did that right away when he was two and a half,
and it was intense and it was for,
Lorilee Binstock 00:23:27
Man.
Michelle M Wagner 00:23:30
you know, three weeks. We lived in these dorm with other kids with that were nearly cochlear
had cochlear implants, and it really gave me the ground basis
for how to how for... For how, you know, me and make you were gonna function
in our home. You know, he needed to be quiet. He couldn't go to restaurants.
You know, loud situations were difficult in me
than being able to go
to rehab
to really learn about addiction and how I could live a healthier lifestyle
helped me, you know, and we embrace both of them and
till this day, we still
take
what we learn from there. You know, I take what I learned from both
John Tracy Clinic, and
Alt, which is the has
place I went to for addiction.
And those are those are a part of our life every single day.
Lorilee Binstock 00:24:27
Wow.
You know, as mothers, a lot of us mothers, were we're like, oh, we'll just... We'll have a drink and, you know, sometimes
it it...
It gets too much.
But when did you realize that you
needed to get help?
Michelle M Wagner 00:24:48
Well, the thing is I I like didn't even think I had a problem
says
mostly
in Denial, and then I was realizing that I was
sort of drowning my sorrows about divorce,
and
you know, probably,
you know,
the whole adoption process in itself was very intense
and,
you know, the trips to Russia
and then seeing all those children, you know, it was a lot to handle at the the time. And, you know, I think...
Lorilee Binstock 00:25:17
Mhmm.
Michelle M Wagner 00:25:20
You know, drowning my sorrows with a big part of it and, you know, family members,
actually,
you know,
like suggesting that I, you know, stopped drinking and I said, no. That's that's fun. And
you know,
finally, I just...
They got to be
too much, and I, you know, was dependent
on it and
you know, I knew I couldn't do it on my own. I knew I needed to help,
and
then I wasn't gonna
be able to stop on my own and
you know and, like, just like with
Nikki,
you know,
finding a place like the John Tracy Clinic for him to go to. My family members help find one of the best places I could go to
because time was of the essence.
Lorilee Binstock 00:26:12
Mhmm.
Michelle M Wagner 00:26:13
Mickey was nearly implanted.
I went right when my divorce was finalize.
And it's one of the best gifts I've ever given myself
to this day.
And
the community
that I've met through through that here in a local town in just
everybody worldwide, you know, I've spoken
you know, at all kinds of seminars and differently have clinics and
huge participate in meetings and advocates for that as well.
And I'm very open about it. And, you know, because of that, I think I've been able to help a lot of people
with that as well.
Lorilee Binstock 00:26:52
I mean, just listening to you, I feel like there's so many people who are just going to
just say,
Yeah. Me too.
Me too. And and maybe just from you just saying that they'll say maybe I should get some help. So I think
what you're doing for yourself, what you're doing for Mickey is just incredible.
I
you know, going back to what you were talking about,
you know, Mickey playing baseball,
you know, my daughter, she plays baseball. And on her team, there's a boy who
who is deaf. So he's he does fine language. He doesn't wear implants.
Just the sweetest kid. And, you know,
when I think about myself growing up, I feel like that wouldn't have
been a thing. Like, everyone loves this kid, and everyone supports this. Kid everyone's rooting for this kid, and I feel like
so many people do that because there's so much awareness about,
you know,
people's differences.
And how we should celebrate everyone's differences, and I think that your book does exactly that. And I think,
you know, I I I feel... I'm... I'm sure you give yourself enough credit for. But I really don't know if you do because I think it's such a beautiful thing for
for other kids to be able to be like, oh, this is this is normal. Just... This is this is...
We we wanna celebrate
everyone
and, you know,
makes me cheer up because I think it's just so sweet. So I feel like what you're doing and in writing this book and creating awareness, not only around your own situation,
Michelle M Wagner 00:28:24
Mhmm
Lorilee Binstock 00:28:32
but Mickey as well.
And I think that's for a trauma survivor driver's podcast And that's that's kind of
the whole premise is to,
you know, whether it's little t traumas or big traumas,
you know,
showing that people can be resilient and, you know, you said earlier about your
your attitude, your positive attitude and how that rubbed off A hundred percent of believer that that positive energy gets transferred
because even I notice it with my children when I'm in a bad mood and I'm being negative.
My kids are not happy, and they're also negative.
Michelle M Wagner 00:29:13
share.
Lorilee Binstock 00:29:15
Right. It's it's... And and And so making... And also making that change that you did and and going to get sober.
And being sober for ten years, I mean,
he i I'm not sure if he knows exactly what has happened, but he can feel that he can feel that
resilience
that energy.
Michelle M Wagner 00:29:35
Right. And I I I agree and you know, he doesn't. It's hard for him to understand because he
you know, with his premature birth and things has have a lot of cognitive delays also. So it's
it's not like you know, the only challenge we have and his hearing loss,
You know, And he's just learning now how to read and
you know, it's... We have,
you know, it's it's... You know,
it's, you know, still long road ahead.
And,
you know, now, you know, a topic lately that's
come up and
you know, I've taken,
like, fully on
because I'm I'm grateful that like using so me as a best friend and this so the worthy of me and you know, it's me you choose us to talk to about puberty,
Lorilee Binstock 00:30:21
Mhmm.
Oh, that's wonderful.
Michelle M Wagner 00:30:27
and all this, you know, And it's, of course, he's older than most children moved publicly
be interested in it and stuff. But, you know, I I kinda of a... As a, you know, mom master dad or a step dead being the one he wants to top too,
asked other parents in Sent because this is this is my first time, you know, talking to about going through puberty with a fourteen year old boy and all the questions that come with him, and I've had so many people.
So openly share with you know, what they have used
and techniques in books and, you know, I always open,
you know, to suggestions, and it's really helped us
was that at the moment?
Lorilee Binstock 00:31:11
What is your biggest tip or suggestion for parents
with special needs children.
Michelle M Wagner 00:31:20
Just to
just love it, you know, I always go back to
loving them
and,
you know, a resilient
parent
you know, is a great model for every resilient
child,
and a parent that gives it there all and never gives up
and,
you know, is just
present,
you, and very,
you know, a part of that child's life is the best thing that
truly that you could do,
but a positive attitude
and just being able to be open and engaging
and, you know, always they're always there for them.
Lorilee Binstock 00:32:07
Yeah.
Michelle M Wagner 00:32:07
Is is is all a child's needs, and it's
the same for adults similar for for adults. I mean, everybody needs,
you know, a friend, a hug
some love,
you know, we're we are all social animals,
and
You know, I think I I have done everything up until this point, and we'll continue to use that to allow Mickey to feel in every social situation.
Lorilee Binstock 00:32:35
Are there more books in the series to come?
Michelle M Wagner 00:32:38
Yes.
There are...
Right now, I am working
and book number three,
and there there will be an of sports. And as I mentioned about the special helmets and things like that and you know, there's been a football player.
Lorilee Binstock 00:32:45
Mhmm.
Michelle M Wagner 00:32:54
He used to play for the
that had cochlear implants, and that's how they made the special helmets where that whole thing came from and how I was able to source
a helmet with a space or a cochlear implant
when he was playing little league.
Lorilee Binstock 00:33:06
Wow.
Michelle M Wagner 00:33:08
And another author of children's books, and she does...
She writes books about each football team, and she's the cheerleader of the book.
You know, I met her. I'm from Chicago. She's in Pennsylvania, but we've connected, and
she inspired me and
kind of,
you know, encouraged me to start writing.
And,
you know, she hasn't said a look at about the forty writers.
And
so we are gonna also call great a book together aside from the members three from Move.
Lorilee Binstock 00:33:42
Wow. So you're busy.
Busy.
That's amazing.
Michelle M Wagner 00:33:45
Yes.
Lorilee Binstock 00:33:47
Did you ever imagine
the success of the series.
Michelle M Wagner 00:33:51
No. That is for her. I never thought I would have to run so many prints of it. I never imagined it would win so many awards
Lorilee Binstock 00:33:52
Mhmm.
Michelle M Wagner 00:34:01
But really, the thing that warms my heart the most is how much
Mickey loves it, how proud he is of it.
Lorilee Binstock 00:34:07
Mhmm.
Michelle M Wagner 00:34:07
And how schools
actually now worldwide,
not just in the United States are really taking it as part of their curriculum.
Lorilee Binstock 00:34:17
Oh, that is incredible.
Wow.
That is amazing.
You must be so proud.
Michelle M Wagner 00:34:23
I I am. I... Yeah.
Lorilee Binstock 00:34:26
Mhmm
Michelle M Wagner 00:34:26
And we police. But, yes, ma'am.
Lorilee Binstock 00:34:29
Wow. Well is there anything else that you'd like to add?
Michelle M Wagner 00:34:35
I think that just... You know,
we we can all do the unimaginable
if we put our hearts into it and
we could all,
you know, get be very supportive to the friends and family and children around us.
And, you know,
know. But nobody or
can do things on their own. It's not afraid to ask for how and that's something I really modeled for Mickey,
you know, and in my sobriety,
you know, asking for help,
in learning more about cochlear
influence asking for help.
And
I always keep my door literally open.
And I'm willing to help
anyone.
Lorilee Binstock 00:35:17
Suppose. Thank you, Michelle for joining me today. I really appreciate having you here and just learning
more about what you've done in your story. I think it's beautiful.
And and
absolutely wonderful. So thank you so much.
Michelle M Wagner 00:35:33
Thank you, Lorilee. It's been a pleasure.
Lorilee Binstock 00:35:36
Well, that was Michelle Wagner, children's book author and advocate for families with special needs children for more info on Michelle. You can click on that scrolling fortune cookie right there on your screen, and that will send you to her website where you can purchase her book
Michelle has contributed to July issue of authentic insider you can catch that issue by going to my website from survivor drivers.
Thrive dot com. That's trauma
thrive dot com.
November issue is out now. And if you haven't already
subscribe to my emails list to get authentic insight our magazine in your inbox monthly.
Thank you so much for joining me today.
We will be taking a break for the holidays, but we will be back in January
With an awesome lineup up of guests. So please follow me on Instagram and all of my social media platforms to see what's happening in the meantime.
You've been listening to A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast on Fireside. I'm Lorilee Binstock, have a safe and healthy holiday season.
Today’s guest is Michael JE Barry. A successful musician and trauma survivor, Michael has been diagnosed with a rare disorder, Dissociative Identity Disorder which is also known as Multiple Personality Disorder. Michael is also the Author of Rooftops, a fiction novel that is part fantasy, part magical reality.
Today’s guest is Geralyn Ritter. A recognized expert in healthcare policy, Geralyn is executive vice president at Organon, a new Fortune 500 healthcare company dedicated to the health of women. She is also the author of a memoir about her recovery from the 2015 Amtrak derailment, Bone by Bone: A Memoir of Trauma and Healing.
This episode aired LIVE on Fireside, Wednesday, October 2nd and has been edited due to technical issues.
This is a LIVE replay of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast which aired Wednesday, October 26th, 2022 at 1130am ET on Fireside Chat.
Today’s guest is Alexandra Dotcheva. Alexandra is the Author of IT REALLY IS SIMPLE: A HOLISTIC APPROACH TO SELF-CONFIDENCE. She came to the US from Bulgaria in 2000 after earning a bachelor’s degree in Music from the National Academy of Music in Sofia; and she earned a Doctor of Musical Arts in Violin Performance from Louisiana State University in 2007. She has been practicing as a registered nurse since 2011, with a strong passion for educating patients on attaining optimal health. Her mission is to help people overcome self-imposed limitations that prevent many from realizing their goals, finding peace of mind, and acquiring prosperity.
This is a LIVE replay of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast which aired Wednesday, October 19th, 2022 at 1130pm ET on Fireside Chat.
Today’s guest is Stephen Mills. Stephen Mills is the author of CHOSEN: A Memoir of Stolen Boyhood, which tells the story of his childhood sexual abuse by a summer camp director, the lifelong journey of recovering from trauma, and his quest to stop a serial predator and find justice. He is honored to serve as an Ambassador for CHILD USA, the leading nonprofit fighting for the civil rights of children.
Stephen Mills' Resource Page:
https://stephenmillsauthor.com/sexual-abuse-resources-for-survivors-families-and-everyone/ Info about Summer Camps: https://www.d2l.org/wp-content/uploads/2018/12/SaferCampExperiences.pdf
This is a LIVE replay of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast which aired Wednesday, October 19th, 2022 at 1130pm ET on Fireside Chat.
Today’s guest is Lora DeVore, Lora is the author of Darkness Was My Candle, a memoir that traces her life as a survivor of child abuse, sex trafficking, illegal pharmacological drug research, and institutional abuse. Now she devotes herself to spreading the word on these atrocities with this personal documentation of her story. With an advanced degree in clinical psychology and recognized as a national expert and catalyst for change, Her wisdom comes from the field of psychology, transpersonal development and spiritual psychology
This is a LIVE replay of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast which aired Wednesday, September 28th, 2022 at 1130pm ET on Fireside Chat.
Today’s guest is Lu Bryant. Lu specializes in Reiki, Trauma, Spiritual Healing, and sound and light healing and has a unique perspective on Complex PTSD. She has just published a new book, ‘Tortured to Triumphant.’ In it, she owns her truth and tells her story about childhood sexual abuse, mental illness, trauma and healing.
This is a LIVE replay of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast which aired Wednesday, September 21, 2022 at 1130pm ET on Fireside Chat.
It’s World Suicide Prevention Month. And this week on A Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast, Suzie Wheeler joins me to discuss secondary trauma that comes from losing a loved one to suicide.
- If you or someone you know is experiencing suicidal thoughts or a crisis, please reach out immediately to the Suicide and Lifeline at 988.
This is a LIVE replay of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast which aired Wednesday, September 14th, 2022 at 11:30pm ET on Fireside Chat.
When recovering from addiction, a key part is a support system. World Renowned Addiction Expert, Robb Kelly joins me LIVE on Fireside Chat to discuss sobriety solutions and healing trauma to heal addiction.
This is a LIVE replay of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast which aired Wednesday, September 7th, 2022 at 11:30pm ET on Fireside Chat.
Ian McCall, Retired American Mixed Martial Arts World Champion, Psychedelic Research Advocate, Decriminalize California Event Director, Psilocybin Advocate, Performance Coach & Mentor, shares the benefits of psychedelics in reversing CTE symptoms, curbing addiction, and healing.
This is a LIVE replay of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast which aired Thursday, May 26th, 2022 at 1230pm ET on Fireside Chat.
Karen Millon, Certified Professional Coach, Host of The HealIn Podcast and Author of An Amazing Divorce shares pragmatic ways to create an amicable break-up and how to co-parent secure children. And it all starts with healing your own traumas.
This is a LIVE replay of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast which aired Thursday, May 12th, 2022 at 1230pm ET on Fireside Chat.
Today's Guest is Kimberly Bell.
Kimberly, Minister and Author of "The Epitome of Kimmy," shares her painful and traumatic past experiences from being abandoned and abused as a child to domestic violence and PTSD. She discusses overcoming her own adversity hoping to use her life story to empower and inspire others who may have also gone through a painful journey.
This is a LIVE replay of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast which aired Thursday, May 12th, 2022 at 1230pm ET on Fireside Chat.
Today’s guest is Marci Moberg.
Marci is an intuitive soul guide, shadow worker, plant spirit teacher, and psychedelic integration coach. She is also the host of the podcast “Tune in with Marci.” She has a passion for reconnecting sensitive souls to their intuitive nature to heal their past and sense of belonging to the animate earth. Marci empowers big-hearted empathic people to stand in their power, trust their intuition, and embody their truth. Guiding clients through deep underworld and magical otherworld journeys. Her work includes mentoring individuals and groups drawing from a rich fusion of ancient and modern approaches including: plant and fungi spirit medicine, dreamwork, ancestral lineage healing, shadow integration, past life regression, somatic approaches to trauma resolution, life coaching, mindfulness, psychedelic integration, and sacred ritual.
Today’s guest is John Bernardo.
John Bernardo is an award-winning, Film and Video Director/Producer with over 20 years of experience in the industry, specializing in documentary film and digital docu-series. John has produced a variety of long-form content, television integrations, and web series that have aired on AMC, ESPN, NBCU, and Sundance TV. His most recent film is the documentary, A Peloton of One, which follows Dave Ohlmuller, a survivor of childhood sexual abuse by a priest, and his journey towards healing.
A Peloton of One is the Winner of The JP Morgan Chase Audience Award which was given at the Greenwich International Film Festival. This documentary is about surviving Childhood Sexual Abuse, focusing on the next chapter in the Survivors’ story - what happens after victims come forward. This film follows Dave Ohlmuller who begins a solo bicycle ride from Chicago to New York, meeting a variety of other Survivors and legal advocates along the way to raise awareness of the statutes of limitations.
This is a LIVE replay of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast which aired Thursday, April 21st, 2022 at 1230pm ET on Fireside Chat.
Today’s guest is Andrea Mack.
Andrea is a Certified Life Coach and Founder and CEO of Get Your Life Back with Andrea Mack, specializing in Trauma and Recovery.
This is a LIVE replay of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast which aired Thursday, April 21st, 2022 at 1230pm ET on Fireside Chat.
Today’s guest is Amanda Monnier.
Amanda is an Energy Healer, Certified energetic allergy healing practitioner, Certified Magnetic Mind Coach, Certified Yoga Teacher, Emotion Code Practitioner, certified Transformational Nutrition Coach, and holds a Bachelor’s in Psychology. She assists her clients in healing old wounds and up-leveling to the highest-soul aligned version of themselves. Amanda is a woman on a mission to create a movement of healed, intuitively-connected humans—people who are truly aligned with their heart & soul, creating a life on their terms, and passionately unleashing their gifts into the world.
If you are in crisis, call the toll-free National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-TALK (8255), available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
This is a LIVE replay of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast which aired Thursday, April 7, 2022 at 1230pm ET on Fireside Chat.
Today’s guest is Best-Selling Author Jeff Romig.
Jeff is the best-selling Author of Don’t Fucking Kill Yourself, which is a memoir about his own experience losing his dad to suicide and how that has affected him. His purpose is to let others know they are not alone in their struggle and that the only way to eliminate the stigma around suicide is to stop deflecting and start talking.
If you are in crisis, call the toll-free National Suicide Prevention Lifeline at 1-800-273-TALK (8255), available 24 hours a day, 7 days a week.
This week is a recorded episode with my guest Michael Gagliardi.
Michael is a writer and author of "Devil Take The Hindmost: The True Story of Terror.” The harrowing true story of a young boy's survival for 12 plus years with a demonically possessed mother. She terrorized the family, the neighbors, and authorities in a small northern town in Ontario Canada from the mid 70's to the mid 80's. He also authored “Devil Take the Hindmost Part 2: The Aftermath.
He speaks on the paranormal, demonology, and Biblical discoveries, educating people on the reality of a spiritual world and its inhabitants, the origins, function and end game as they pertain to human existence. Michael has a certificate in Eschatology from the Henry Morris Institute and is a worship leader in his church for many years.
This is a LIVE replay of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast which aired Thursday, March 17, 2022 at 1230pm ET on Fireside Chat.Today’s guest is Author Yvonne Sandomir.
Yvonne Sandomir is the author of the recently released memoir The Invisible Girl. She is a certified Mindfulness coach with more than six years of psychotherapy under her belt.
This is a LIVE replay of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast which aired Thursday, March 10, 2022 at 1230pm ET on Fireside Chat.Today’s guest is Best-Selling Author Jessie Kanzer.
Jessie is a writer and best-selling author of “Don’t Just Sit There, Do Nothing.” She is also a former reporter and actress. Her work has appeared in the Washington Post, New York Daily News, Wall Street Journal, The Independent, the New York Times, Los Angeles Times, Huffington Post, Ravishly, and Romper as well as Authentic Insider.
This is a LIVE replay of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast which aired Thursday, March 3, 2022 at 1230pm ET on Fireside Chat. Today’s guest is Teresa Bruni.
Teresa is the healer and Founder of Less Fear, More Flow, a #1 International Best-Selling Author, and speaker. She lives life from her heart and is an innate teacher who believes that our thoughts are our only limit. Teresa holds many certifications, including being a Certified Professional Coach, a Certified Energy Leadership Index Master Practitioner, PSYCH-K® Preferred Facilitator, PER-K® Catalyst, HeartMath® Certified Practitioner, and Muscle Testing Master.
This is a LIVE replay of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast which aired Thursday, February 17, 2022 at 1230pm ET on Fireside Chat.
Today’s guest is Author Zelna Oberholster.
Zelna is the author of Napierville: The journey of a "Sporie" from sexual abuse to healing and flourishing. She is also a life coach, speaker, mother, serial entrepreneur, and community builder with a special interest in the development of young women, using her journey as a multiple rape survivor to thrive and inspire. Besides being an active speaker in different forums, she runs support groups for the depressed, abused women and children, and cancer groups.
This is a LIVE replay of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast which aired Thursday, February 10, 2022 at 1230pm ET on Fireside Chat.
Today’s guest is Author Rylee Tuggle.
Rylee is the author of My Voice Matters and The Trusted Trio. Other book titles include Helping Paws: A Day in the Life of a Service Dog and My Hidden Difference Makes Me Special. She received her Master of Education in Curriculum and Instruction from the University of Arizona with a specialization in Applied Behavior Analysis (ABA). She is a licensed Board-Certified Behavior Analyst (BCBA) focusing on teaching skill acquisition of healthy and safe replacement behaviors and caregiver education. Tuggle is an advocate for service animals, chronically ill and/or disabled individuals, and for those who have experienced trauma.
This is a LIVE replay of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast which aired Thursday, January 27, 2022 at 1230pm ET on Fireside Chat.
My Guest today is Ashley Bernardi.
Ashley is an award-winning podcaster, CEO, author, publicist, speaker, and founder of Nardi Media LLC. She has a deep interest in health and wellness and earned a certificate in The Science of Well-Being from Yale University. She is a regularly featured expert in the media, including the Emmy award-winning series “The Mother Side” airing on ABC in Washington, DC. And she is the author of the highly acclaimed new book Authentic Power: Give Yourself Permission to Feel.
This is a LIVE replay of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast which aired Thursday, January 20, 2022 at 12:00pm ET on Fireside Chat.
Today’s guest is Amy Guerrero.
Amy is a trauma-informed recovery coach, conscious sober person, and founder of Thrive In Recovery, a coaching practice developed for sober people to heal their trauma, find success and create healthy relationships with people, money, and themselves.
Amy created Thrive In Recovery to provide her clients with a one-on-one, personalized approach to sober living, tailored for their specific needs, desires, and goals. Recently, Amy launched Bridge To Trust, a complimentary 3-day interactive experience designed for recovering humans and their loved ones to repair relationships, heal dysfunctional family dynamics, and experience a deeper connection.
This is a LIVE replay of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast which aired Thursday, January 19th, 2022 at 12:30pm ET on Fireside Chat.
My guest today is Karen Gross.
Karen Gross currently serves as Senior Counsel to Finn Partners. She advised the Biden Election Domestic Policy Committee, focusing on student mental wellness. She is an instructor in continuing education at Rutgers University Graduate School of Social Work and also sits on the Advisory Council at the Center for Minority Serving Institutions at Rutgers. She is the award-winning author of three books: Trauma Doesn’t Stop at the School Door ; Breakaway Learners and Failure and Forgiveness.
She is also the author of a trauma-sensitive children’s book series, Lady Lucy’s Quest that she has read to more than 3000 children across the globe. She served for 8 years as President of Southern Vermont College and as Senior Policy Advisor to the US Depart. of Education during the Obama Administration.
This is a LIVE replay of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast which aired Thursday, January 13th, 2022 at 11AM ET on Fireside Chat.
My guest today is Shannon Moroney.
Shannon is a bestselling author of two memoirs: Through the Glass, her own story following the violent crimes committed by her first husband, and Out of the Shadows, the story of human trafficking survivor Timea Nagy. Shannon is also a trauma therapist and the clinical director of Shannon Moroney & Associates, currently providing treatment, support and advocacy for dozens of survivors of disgraced fashion mogul, Peter Nygard, currently being extradited to the US on a 9-count sex-trafficking and racketeering indictment. Shannon is also the author of HEAL FOR REAL: A Guided Journal to Forgiving Others―and Yourself which was just released on January 4th.
She also contributed to January’s issue of Authentic Insider which you can find at my website and if you haven’t already, please subscribe to my email list to get Authentic Insider Magazine in your inbox monthly.
Be sure to check in on Fireside next week. I’ll be hosting two shows Wednesday, January 12th with Author Karen Gross about Trauma Education and on Thursday, January 13th with Amy Guerrero with Thrive in Recovery to discuss Trauma and Substance Abuse.
If the last year has taught us anything, it has shown us that we are resilient creatures who regardless of the difficulties, job layoffs, illnesses, if you are listening to this podcast you have survived.
For many people, the year has magnified dormant mental health issues or created a host of new ones.
Joining me is Ashley Bernardi, founder of Nardi Media and the Author of Authentic Power: Give Yourself Permission to Feel. She shares her personal story of grief and trauma that eventually manifested physical ailments. In this episode, she discusses how harnessing her authentic power helped her become her truest self.
I am an advocate for Psychedelics to help with treatment-resistant trauma. Recent research by MAPS, the multi-disciplinary association of psychedelic studies, has shown that psychedelics such as MDMA combined with psychotherapy has been found to be effective and well-tolerated in reducing ‘Post-traumatic stress disorder' or PTSD symptoms in veterans and first responders. For many veterans, psychedelics have been life-changing.
My guest is a former Army Ranger, former private military contractor, Purple Heart recipient and veteran transition coach who founded ‘The Combat Coach.’ He’s also a psychedelic integration coach for Heroic Hearts Project, and a student of Psychology.
Similar to so many veterans, Kasey Pipitt had suffered from PTSD, that is until his first experience with psychedelics.
Today's podcast is presented by PODGO. PODGO is the easiest way for you to monetize your podcast. Providing podcasters with a flat rate for ad space so you always know how much you get when you include an ad from PODGO. Apply today to become a member and immediately be connected with advertisers that fit your audience. That's PODGO.CO at podgo.co. And be sure to add our podcast in the “How did you hear about PODGO?” section of the application!
My guest today is retired NHL center, Dave Scatchard who is best known for his time with the Vancouver Kanucks and the New York Islanders. He may have been seen as the underdog, but his drive to overcome obstacles helped him achieve his childhood dream of becoming an NHL hockey player at the age of twenty-one.
However, after his fifth concussion, everything changed for him. Dave is also the Author of The Comeback which details his journey to find himself and true freedom.
Dave joins me to talk about his book and journey of self-discovery.
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Grief is a normal reaction to loss however, when a loss of a loved one is sudden or tragic, it can be traumatic. My guest today is Nikki Mammano. On October 13, 2019, she was in an accident with four friends when she lost her boyfriend and suffered a TBI, a traumatic brain injury, almost losing her own life.
The wounds were visible but the lingering wounds of such a tragedy could not be seen. Nikki joins me now to share her story and her journey through recovery.
This episode is brought to you by stamps.com.
Save time and money with Stamps.com. There’s NO risk. And with my promo code, POD, you get a special offer that includes a 4-week trial PLUS free postage and a digital scale.
This episode is brought to you by stamps.com. With my promo code, POD, you get a special offer that includes a 4-week trial PLUS free postage and a digital scale. No long-term commitments or contracts. Just go to Stamps.com, click on the microphone at the TOP of the homepage and type in POD. That’s Stamps.com, promo code POD. Stamps.com.
People who experience trauma, live an existence that is lived through a different lens than others. Trauma sends us into survival mode, and you are not completely out of it until you’re able to process the event. And moments that trigger these memories feel like life or death.
Some people can end up living their lives in survival mode. However, it does not have to be that way and for those who are able to get to the other side get to experience something even more incredible than they ever though would be possible, Post-Traumatic Growth.
My guest is Stephanie Hutchins, Life Coach and Author of Transformation after Trauma: Embracing Post-Traumatic Growth.
When experiencing trauma, that energy and those feelings live well beyond the actual event in the nervous system. When similar feelings are triggered, it’s the body that remembers.
In my earliest days of treatment, somatic experiencing therapy was the first modality that really began my healing. On my podcast, I’ve interviewed Dale DeNunzio, my SE practitioner in Episode 3. And I spoke with Eduardo Cortina, a Somatic cannabis integrative therapist in Episode 35.
In this episode, I speak with Kaity Holsapple, Somatic Yoga Therapist and Founder of Her Temple Healing.
If interested, Kaity is offering a healing retreat in Mexico. Follow the link. However, limited spaces left. https://www.hertemplehealing.com/embodiment-retreat/
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October is Breast Cancer Awareness Month.
According to a German study, about 80% of women diagnosed with early-stage disease had symptoms of PTSD between the time they were diagnosed and the start of treatment.
My guest today is Rosie Mankes, a life coach and author of Find Your Joy and Run With It, a heartwarming memoir about overcoming her second battle with cancer.
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Psychedelics have been a big part of my healing. I am a huge advocate for it as a means of personal growth. As a teen I also used psychedelics recreationally and looking back, it really opened my mind to things and ideas I should have explored more, which is why when I found out about its healing properties for self-reflection, I knew this is what I needed to heal my own trauma. I don’t encourage the use of psychedelics unless in proper settings with intentions of integrating the experience with a group, coach, or therapist.
My guest today is Doug Cartwright, Founder of The Daily Shifts and Author of Holyshit We are Alive, which explores Doug’s life as a 20 something ex-Mormon and ex-millionaire who lived an unfulfilled existence until he found purpose through psychedelic healing.
This episode is sponsored by DB Journey Bags and Carry-ons
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As a parent, I am aware of the pressure of what it takes to be a mom. The pressure we put on ourselves and for many the pressure we assume others are putting on us. It is a constant job and a thankless one. For stay-at-home moms, a lot of us begin to assume this as our identity. For some special needs moms, it can be like living in constant survival mode.
My guest is Leanna Taylor, a special needs mom and author of the “Fragile Face of God.”
We know trauma and genetics contribute to mental health issues. However, we don’t discuss how environmental toxins can also be to blame. Toxins impact nearly every aspect of our body and can damage the brain, leading to a variety of physical and mental symptoms, increasing the risk of depression, suicide, memory problems, autism, psychotic behaviors, and learning disorders, among others.
My guest today is Tonya Harris, an award-winning environmental toxin expert, the founder of Slightly Greener and the creator of the Slightly Greener Method™ as well as the author of The Slightly Greener Method: Detoxifying Your Home Is Easier, Faster, and Less Expensive than You Think. She is a childhood leukemia survivor and mother of three, whose biggest passion is helping parents learn how toxins in the home can affect their family’s health.
It’s hard to believe that it has been nearly 20 years since the 9/11 attacks took place in New York City in 2001. Traumatic events like this become imprinted in our minds. Some choose to forget, especially if we are directly affected. But if an event like this becomes so ingrained in a person’s mind who was almost 1000 miles away from the tragedy, what can something like this do to a person who is directly affected? What about the people who grow to love them, the ones who experience secondary trauma?
Payton Lynch, Author of the recently released book, Rise from the Ashes: Stories of trauma, resilience, and growth from the children of 9/11, who is also the spouse of a 9/11 surviving child describes what she has learned from the children personally affected by such a public tragedy.
As we approach the 20th anniversary of the 9/11 attacks on the World Trade Center, I wanted to invite a former ATSTP guest, Matthew John Bocchi. Last year, he released the first memoir written by a surviving child of a 9/11 victim. This year Sway is being re-released in paperback.
Sway details the tragic event of Matt losing his father during the 9/11 attacks, the manipulation and sexual abuse by an uncle, drug addiction redemption, and sobriety. Matt joins us today to update us on his life after his perpetrator is released from prison, sobriety, how he is honoring his father 20 years after his death, and his latest endeavors.
Children are reluctant to report abuse for fear of not being believed or even worse, being punished. What if the abuse is by the hands of a close family member? From my own experience, I understand the fear of living with an abuser and the manipulation it took to keep me quiet.
Today, Child Advocate Kathy Picard joins me and she is the author of “Life with My Idiot Family: A True Story of Survival Courage and Justice over Childhood Sexual Abuse.
Throughout my podcast, my focus has not only been to destigmatize mental illness but to also to provide different perspectives to elicit empathy and compassion. When we are fully able to be curious, we begin to develop a better understanding of others.
D. John Jackson joins me today, he is a Fortune 50 leader, creative visionary, who is an executive producer of documentary films, an author, a strategist, a futurist thinker, a lecturer, and a motivational speaker. He is also the founder of 5J Entertainment, a company committed to educating, informing, entertaining, and promoting positive images of African Americans through various forms of media. Its first film documentary, What About Me, explores the untold, unheard, distorted, and misunderstood stories of Black men in America.
This is Part 3 of my 3-part podcast series in my MDMA experience. Heather Smith, my Internal Family Systems therapist and Psychedelic Integrative therapist joins A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast to discuss MDMA's ability to heal trauma and how to integrate the experience post MDMA session.
We discuss transformational growth or post traumatic growth and other ways this sacred drug can mental health conditions.
In part 2 of my 3-part podcast series, I have invited Deborah Servetnick, Transformational and Psychedelic Integrative Coach on A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast. Deborah is a cancer survivor and was part of the Johns Hopkins Research in psychedelic therapy. Deborah joins the show to discuss the psychedelic experience to heal the soul.
This is the first of my 3-part podcast series in my MDMA experience. Methylenedioxymethamphetamine (MDMA) is commonly known as ecstasy (E) or molly. This episode discusses what I did to prep with my personal trauma therapist, Internal Family Systems Therapist, and Psychedelic Integrative Therapist, Heather Smith.
In my journey to healing, I have been privileged enough to explore the many treatment modalities out there, including having MDMA to support my work in therapy.
In my search for more information about MDMA assisted therapy, I realized Internal Family Systems, or IFS therapy was effective in the preparation of the treatment as well as integration afterward.
My search for alternative trauma treatments from my own childhood sexual abuse led me to so many modalities: EMDR, Somatic Experiencing, Brainspotting, Neurofeedback, and so much more. But nothing intrigued me as much as psychedelic-assisted therapy, which includes MDMA, LSD and psilocybin mushrooms, and ketamine among others.
In this episode of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast, Eric Osborne discusses the benefits of Psilocybin. Osborne is the Founder of PLEDG, Inc. a US-based nonprofit dedicated to providing legal psilocybin assisted therapy to those in need and co-founder of the Psanctuary Sacred Mushroom Church.
In my quest to find alternative therapies and even medications to help mental health, I’ve been testing out a neurostimulation device that you wear for 20 minutes a day to treat insomnia, anxiety, and depression.
Today's guest is Kelly Roman Co-founder and CEO of Fisher Wallace Laboratories which created the wearable neurostimulation device. He discusses how it works, its benefits, and its side effects.
Everyday hundreds of Americans are affected by Sexual Violence.
RAINN, the Rape Assault Incest National Network is an organization dedicated to supporting survivors of sexual violence every day of the year. However, in April during Sexual Assault Awareness and Prevention Month, RAINN is asking you to be a part of the conversation.
Ebonique Bethea joins A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast to discuss education and resources available to survivors. Bethea serves as the Clinical Director at RAINN, providing guidance and oversight on clinical, and trauma-informed services.
33 states including the District of Columbia all have access to medical marijuana, and more are considering bills to do the same.
From limited research, cannabis can potentially reduce anxiety, inflammation, relieve pain, control nausea and vomiting, kill cancer cells and slow tumor growth.
Eduardo Cortina, Licensed Professional Counselor and Cannabis Integrative Somatic Experiencing Practitioner discusses potential benefits of integrating Cannabis with Somatic Experiencing to treat trauma.
Managing a child’s behavior is one of the biggest challenges parents face. Many parents think that physical punishment is an acceptable form of discipline with more than two-thirds of American adults agreeing or strongly agreeing that children sometimes need a “good hard spanking.” That is according to the National Child Traumatic Stress Network.
Spanking may work temporarily to stop children’s problem behaviors, but it may not change their behavior in the long run and can potentially develop into Post Traumatic Syndrome Disorder or PTSD symptoms.
Imani Kaliid, Host of the Misconnected Podcast, Founder of InVia Foundation and Author of There was Violence joins A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast to share how childhood abuse affected his life as an adult.
According to the Centers for Disease Control, autism affects an estimated 1 in 54 children in the United States today.
The Autism Society, the nation’s leading grassroots autism organization to create autism awareness, inclusion, and self-determination for all with a goal to assure that each person with Autism Spectrum Disorder has the opportunity to achieve the highest possible quality of life.
Antonio Myers calls autism his superpower while achieving greatness and proving that love and support can help create a beautiful life worth living.
According to Recovery Across Mental Health (RAMH), men and women are equally affected by mental illness, however, many people may feel like there's an imbalance assuming women are mostly affected.
Women are more likely than men to disclose mental health issues and seek help. The stigma around men and mental illness is one that needs to be dismantled and It starts by talking about.
Ryan Harland, Author of Riding the Storm and sexual abuse survivor, joins A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast to give a voice to men suffering in silence.
An estimated 70 percent of adults in the United States have experienced a traumatic event at least once in their lives and up to 20 percent of these people go on to develop posttraumatic stress disorder or PTSD.
That’s According to the Sidran Institute, a non-profit organization that helps people understand, recover from, and treat Post-Traumatic Stress and other mental health disorders.
Jacquelyn Weiss joins A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast. She is an Emotion Code Practitioner, Body Code Practitioner, T3 Therapist, Native Herbalist, Native Holistic Healer, and Author of Healing the Survivor.
Losing a baby — either during pregnancy or after birth — may be one of the most heartbreaking and painful experiences a parent will ever endure. Yet these experiences are more common than most of us realize. According to the National Institute of Health, about 10-15% of women will experience a miscarriage, about 24,000 U.S. babies are stillborn each year, and over a thousand babies die each year in the U.S. of Sudden infant death syndrome, or SIDS
Dr. Roya Pilcher and her husband lost their child after seven months in the NICU. In all this grief, Dr. Pilcher shares why they created, the Ava Potter Pilcher Foundation.
You’ve heard of the Golden Rule, right? “Treat others as you want others to treat you.” But have you heard of the NEW Golden Rule? “Treat yourself the way you want others to treat you?" Emily Golden joins a Trauma Survivor Thriver’s Podcast to tell us why the NEW Golden Rule will naturally improve your mental wellness.
Anyone who has endured any type of trauma knows that those traumatic moments shape us. They become ripple effects that control how we respond to the world around us. And if we cannot control our own emotions, we are all held hostage by them until we make a conscious effort to heal that trauma or traumas.
Joining today's episode is Gina Defa, Trauma Survivor Thriver & Author of the recently released book, The Parakeet Drawing a beautifully written and inspiring memoir about adversity and resilience.
It’s being called a worldwide epidemic. Brad Watts, Mental Health Professional, Sex Offender Specialist, and Author of Sibling Sexual Abuse: A Guide for Confronting America's Epidemic, joins this episode of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast to discuss the taboo subject of sibling sexual abuse. Watts provides crucial information for families, survivors, and abusers for how to spot it, treatment, and the hopeful path to healing for both survivors and abusers.
Many people in their lifetime will experience traumatic moments in their life that will shape who they become in the world. And so many of them will take those experiences and use that energy to thrive, not just for themselves, but also use that energy to help other’s find their purpose.
My guest Blythe Langford discusses how she took her multiple traumas and turned them into a business she loves while helping others and the environment. She is an entrepreneur, business coach, Founder of the non-profit organization “Resonate Foundation” and Host of the podcast, “Upgrade with Blythe Langford.”
On February 14, 2018, Valentine's Day, Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in South Florida was the scene of the deadliest school shooting in US history.
The day began like any normal day for student Maddie King who remembers exchanging Valentines with friends with plans of a Valentine's Day dinner with her boyfriend after school that evening. But what was an exciting day turned into a day of terror after a gunman, a former MSD HS student began shooting indiscriminately at students and teachers, killing 17 people.
That was three years ago and although Maddie gets the mental health care she needs, she still gets triggers from what some consider joyous Valentine's decorations.
In this episode, Maddie walks us through Valentine's Day three years ago and how she is coping with the triggers from the shooting years later.
Childhood Sexual Abuse is more prevalent than is being talked about. What can we do to fix that?
Patrice Griffin, Founder of Patrice's Kids and Author of The Conscious Community joins A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast to share her story as a fourteen-year-old girl who endures the horrors of child sexual abuse. Her mission now is to encourage parents and the community to wake up. Through her non-profit foundation, Patrice's Kids, she educates parents and caregivers on how we can better protect our children.
Many of us may have faced narcissistic abuse, whether it be from a parent, spouse, friend, or in the workplace. A lot of us may have complained that a co-worker or boss was a narcissist. And we may joke about it but the truth is prolonged exposure to this type of abuse can result in complex post-traumatic stress disorder or PTSD. Symptoms include attachment issues, addiction issues, anxiety, and self-destructive behaviors.
Joy Larkin, Narcissistic Abuse Survivor AND Life Coach specializing in PTSD, Co-Dependency, and Narcissistic Abuse, joins us on today's show.
The United Nations estimates 60 million children and infants have been abandoned by their families and live on their own or in orphanages in the world. In the United States, more than 7,000 children are abandoned each year. The abandonment of children is an extreme form of child neglect stemming from many causes.
Sarah Koeppen is a child advocate, founder of the Hope Box, and author of “Called to Hope: The Story of Sarah Koeppen.” Koeppen joins the podcast to discuss her latest book and why she wants to destigmatize the shame surrounding putting children up for adoption.
Advocates fighting against human trafficking have long fought for the topic to hit mainstream media for years, which it has now, mostly because of organizations pushing conspiracy theories. With the spread of false information, non-profits working to bring awareness of the seriousness of the facts are concerned these distractions will destroy progress they have made. Sex-trafficked survivor and founder of Twelve11, Katherine McGibbon, joins A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast to talk about how these theories hurt their mission to end human trafficking.
A Pew Research Study shows Generation Z as the most racially and ethnically diverse generation and are on track to be the most well-educated yet. But world events in their short lifetime have also taken a toll on their mental health. This is the generation shaping the social, political and economic landscape of the country. Join Gen Z'ers Sarah Correa-Dibar and Mike Robb to hear how they are shaping the future.
On this Veterans Day, Tom Voss, military veteran, advocate, national liaison for Project Welcome Home Troops and Author of Where War Ends joins Lorilee Binstock for episode 18. After his return home from service, Voss found himself trapped in a world of chaos in his mind. In a last ditch effort to heal from his PTSD, he embarked on a 2,700 mile journey towards recovery. Find out how he found his reason to live and his purpose to help others.
Being a mom is hard enough, but being a mom in the military can take its toll especially if both parents are enlisted. Major Annette Whittenberger, military veteran, entrepreneur, author, and host of The Truths We Hide Podcast joins Lorilee Binstock to discuss being a victim of military sexual abuse and being a mom in the military.
In Episode 16, Sgt. Karalyn Martin joins A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast to share her story of unbelievable resilience. Sergeant Martin has endured extreme traumas in her life including multiple sexual abuse by family members. She joined the Marine Corps to escape her past only to find herself in a similar situation. However, she found her passion and life's work at a time she was just about to give up on herself. Learn how this warrior survived and thrived to help others find purpose through adversity.
Human Trafficking may not look like how you imagine and you may not realize how close to home it really is.
In episode 14, Katherine McGibbons, Human Trafficking Survivor and Co-Founder of Twelve11 discusses her personal experience of being trafficked and how she was able to escape. Katherine also gives us the facts about human trafficking and how you can identify it in your community.
Although the words human trafficking may invoke an idea of moving humans around, the truth is it can take place within a single country, or even within a single community or even in a single home. It's the process of trapping people through the use of violence, deception or coercion and exploiting them for financial or personal gain.
In this episode of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast, learn about what consent really means. Melissa Hoppmeyer,Chief of Special Victims and Family Violence Unit at Prince George County State Attorney's Office explains consent in accordance to the law, domestic violence, how to deal with trauma-focused investigations and more.
Melissa Hoppmeyer, Esq. has assisted in drafting numerous legislative bills and has testified before the Maryland General Assembly on numerous occasions to help implement stronger criminal laws for crimes of violence and to ensure that domestic violence and sexual assault victims are treated fairly throughout the civil and criminal judicial system. She also serves as a technical trainer for law enforcement, fellow prosecutors and the community on issues including consent education, sexual assault laws, child abuse investigations and prosecutions, domestic violence, criminal procedure, and how to properly conduct trauma-focused investigations. Hoppmeyer is also the co-founder of Right Response Consulting, focused on sexual assault/harassment/title IX training and investigations and co-host of No Grey Zone Podcast.
Lorilee Binstock takes an in-depth look at the short and long-term effects of childhood trauma, featuring Dr. Samantha Sweeney, child psychologist and Elementary Youth Development Senior Manager Melanie Holland Orr of Horton's Kids, a mentor program for children and teens living in at-risk neighborhoods in Washington, DC.
Dr. Sweeney discusses the damaging effects of childhood trauma and the debilitating consequences of not treating mental illness, especially when it stems from trauma. Melanie then joins the podcast to share the amazing work Horton's Kids are doing and why recognizing trauma in at-risk communities will contribute to the success in children in those communities.
Since the beginning of the COVID Pandemic, Asian Americans have been forced to endure acts of bigotry and hate from verbal abuse to physical attacks. On September 17, 2020, the House passed a resolution condemning anti-Asian sentiment. But what kind of trauma does this xenophobic rhetoric create in our society while many officials are fanning the flames. Dr. Helen Hsu, Asian American Specialist, Psychologist, Stanford University Lecturer and former consultant for the Netflix show, 13 Reasons Why, joins me to answer that question. We also discuss the mental health stigma surrounding Asian cultures.
The content of this podcast may contain trigger information. Discretion is advised.
According to a report by the US Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), suicide rates for adults in the US are on the rise.
Each person who dies by suicide leaves behind an estimated six or more “suicide survivors” — people who’ve lost someone they care about deeply and are left grieving and struggling to understand.
Teresa Amelia, wellness coach and suicide survivor who lost two family members to suicide shares her traumatic experiences after losing two family members to suicide.
September is Suicide Awareness Month and more times than I can remember, I've experienced suicidal ideations and five serious suicide attempts. The hard truth is that when depression hits, it's hard to even understand any other way out. In Episode 7, Chad Moses of TWLOHA defines suicide as "a fatal result of a restricted perspective." Therefore, in order to combat suicidal thoughts, we need to broaden our perspective, open our minds to the many possibilities for healing and talk to the survivors who have found their purpose. In my podcast series, I speak to so many people who have experienced suicidal ideations, attempted suicide and not only survived but thrived, including myself. Hear about my path to recovery with my Somatic Experiencing Practitioner, Dr. Dale DeNunzio (Episode 3). Hear Melissa Dobbs (Episode 6), and Matthew Bocchi's stories (Episode 8) and how they persevered after unthinkable trauma. Broaden your perspective and begin living your life openly and authentically, because it's never too late to thrive.
After losing his father in 9/11 at the age of nine, Matthew Bocchi was on a mission to find out what happened in his father's final moments. In his search for answers, a family member took advantage of his vulnerability which inevitably sent him down a dangerous road to addiction. Through all of this adversity, he found hope and a purpose. On today's podcast, Matthew discusses his personal struggles which he details in his riveting forthcoming book, Sway, which will be released September 8, 2020.
September is Suicide Prevention Month. In this episode, I speak with Chad Moses at "To Write Love On Her Arms." Both Chad and I discuss our experiences with self-harm and suicidal ideation and how we were able to endure and find a life worth living. We also talk about ways we can help loved ones navigate thoughts of suicide. Chad also discusses TWLOHA's Suicide Prevention Campaign and how you can be a part of it.
*The content of this podcast may contain triggering information for some listeners. Discretion is advised.
In this episode, we speak with Trauma Survivor Thriver Melissa Dobbs. She describes her personal story and how healing through the arts helped her connect to her inner child, grow a wildly successful business and help other children heal their own trauma.
Winners for the #atstgiveaway are:
Anna in Florida!
Veronica in South Carolina!
Thanks for your participation.
Today, we speak with ChildHelp Developmental Officer Michael Medoro about the shady statistics surrounding child abuse during this time of quarantine.
Children with developmental disabilities and mental health diagnoses are about 5 times more likely to be sexually abused than children without disabilities. In this episode, I speak with Nellie Galindo, Mental Health and Disabilities Advocate and trauma survivor Anna Myers who also lives with a learning disability.
In this episode of A Trauma Survivor Thriver's Podcast, I invite my Somatic Experiencing Practitioner from Sierra Tucson to discuss the many immediate and effective modalities I've used to heal my trauma. I discuss my own success stories with these holistic therapies and why they are so effective in healing trauma.
In our push to destigmatize mental illness, I talk with renowned psychiatrist Dr. Suvrat Bhargave, author of A Moment of Insight. Dr. B opens up about his own trauma of childhood sexual abuse and how he reached his moment of insight. We talk about the stigma surrounding mental illness and tangible ways we can destigmatize it. I also talk with the CEO of Freely Health, Trevor Charlston about a new app to connect people in an easily accessible environment where safe, anonymous conversations are readily available.
Dr. Crystal McLeod, LCSW, BCD and I discuss transgenerational/racial trauma and the idea of cancel culture, whether it's bullying or activism. It's a fascinating conversation that I hope will allow listeners to better understand how both historical and present-day traumas live on through black communities that have endured these unique and painful experiences.
Subscribe, Listen, Review and Win a ATSTP Show Tee or Tank. Winners will be announced in Episode 2 (July 22) show notes and across A_TST_Podcast's social media platforms. Be sure to hashtag #atstpgiveaway. Check out the tees and tanks at atstpodcast.com. Sizes are limited but can be ordered.
This is my why. The reason for doing my podcast and leaving myself exposed. The more I talk about my trauma, the less it has control over me. When I talk about my truth, I see how it helps others face their own demons. Vulnerability allows a person to become their most authentic self and that is the most powerful way to live.