Reimagining Justice: Recent Episodes

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In episode no. 90, my guest is Bridgette Toy-Cronin, Director, Civil Justice Centre,
Co-Director, Otago Centre for Law and Society and Senior Lecturer, Faculty of Law, University of Otago. We cover:

• The access to justice issues in Aotearoa New Zealand;
• Key aims of the ‘Wayfinding for civil justice’ project;
• How the project commenced at the start of the pandemic with a hui;
• The other jurisdictions the working group looked to for guidance on this project;
• How the project is doing two related but different things at the same time;
• Factors peculiar to Aotearoa New Zealand that are facilitating the entire process;
• The diversity of the working group, and which organisations have made submissions to the consultation process;
• Early findings about what will assist going forward;
• Funding sources for this stakeholder-led strategy, and for the recommendations;
• Gaps that have been identified through this work;
• Different approaches to legal innovation in Aotearoa New Zealand;
• The intersection of customary Māori law and the mainstream justice system;
• How Māori principles are influencing procedure including process in the District Court, mediation and dispute resolution;
• How ‘innovation’ and ‘technology’ are often conflated; and
• Bridgette’s definition of legal innovation.

Proudly sponsored by Neota!

Links:

• Wayfinding for Civil Justice
• Neota Logic Solution Gallery
• Neota Logic
• Churchill Trust Project

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In episode no. 89 my guest is Fiona Kirkman, CEO and co-founder of FamilyProperty. We cover:

• The functionality of expert system FamilyProperty that Fiona and her co-founder (husband!) Tim developed;
• The journey of FamilyProperty from an idea to MVP, to market, to acquisition;
• The integration of FamilyProperty with global practice management software, Smokeball bringing the ‘business of law’ together with effective delivery of legal advice;
• How technology is always changing and the need for ongoing maintenance (especially when court forms change!);
• The importance of beta testing and accurate data mapping;
• Benefits of this use of technology for lawyers and clients;
• What it is about the people that adopt these new methodologies and the organisations in which they work, including their size and what that means for change management;
• The impact of the pandemic on the legal industry;
• Where you fit on ‘the innovative scale’;
• The importance of understanding users’ pain points and how technology can assist with that, as well as empower the professionals to do more of the ‘human work’;
• Plans for scaling and expansion of FamilyProperty in the USA;
• Unexpected uses of the financial aspects of FamilyProperty and a model that Legal Aid is piloting;
• Constraints that Fiona and Tim have come up against recently;
• The importance of confidentiality and cybersecurity;
• Fiona’s 3 passions and how they relate to her numerous roles;
• What lawyers will need to be effective mediators in the future;
• What is the ‘resolution revolution’?;
• The importance of collaborative practice and multidisciplinary input;
• When Fiona became comfortable with being labelled an ‘innovator’;
• What she is most proud of along the journey of both joys and challenges;
• How technology is an enabler of access to justice; and
• Fiona’s definition of legal innovation.

Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic!

Links:

• Family Property
• Smokeball
• Neota Logic Solution Gallery
• Neota Logic
• Churchill Trust Project
• Survey
• Future Ready Regional and Rural Legal Conference

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In episode no. 89 my guest is Fiona Kirkman, CEO and co-founder of FamilyProperty. We cover:

• The functionality of expert system FamilyProperty that Fiona and her co-founder (husband!) Tim developed;
• The journey of FamilyProperty from an idea to MVP, to market, to acquisition;
• The integration of FamilyProperty with global practice management software, Smokeball bringing the ‘business of law’ together with effective delivery of legal advice;
• How technology is always changing and the need for ongoing maintenance (especially when court forms change!);
• The importance of beta testing and accurate data mapping;
• Benefits of this use of technology for lawyers and clients;
• What it is about the people that adopt these new methodologies and the organisations in which they work, including their size and what that means for change management;
• The impact of the pandemic on the legal industry;
• Where you fit on ‘the innovative scale’;
• The importance of understanding users’ pain points and how technology can assist with that, as well as empower the professionals to do more of the ‘human work’;
• Plans for scaling and expansion of FamilyProperty in the USA;
• Unexpected uses of the financial aspects of FamilyProperty and a model that Legal Aid is piloting;
• Constraints that Fiona and Tim have come up against recently;
• The importance of confidentiality and cybersecurity;
• Fiona’s 3 passions and how they relate to her numerous roles;
• What lawyers will need to be effective mediators in the future;
• What is the ‘resolution revolution’?;
• The importance of collaborative practice and multidisciplinary input;
• When Fiona became comfortable with being labelled an ‘innovator’;
• What she is most proud of along the journey of both joys and challenges;
• How technology is an enabler of access to justice; and
• Fiona’s definition of legal innovation.

Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic!

Links:

• Family Property
• Smokeball
• Neota Logic Solution Gallery
• Neota Logic
• Churchill Trust Project
• Survey
• Future Ready Regional and Rural Legal Conference

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In episode no. 88, my guest is Nicolas Patrick, Partner, Head of Responsible Business, DLA Piper. We cover:

• Nic’s views on the potential of technology;
• The reason for DLA Piper holding a forum on technology and access to justice in 2019;
• The problem with digitising existing processes;
• Why an international law firm without family law expertise, supports a Sydney based non-profit family law firm;
• The way Wallumatta Legal operates and how it runs an efficient practice;
• How pro bono provides insight into areas of unmet legal need;
  The different contributions that Macquarie University and DLA Piper bring to Wallumatta Legal;
• What technology is used for at Wallumatta Legal and the software it relies upon;
• Why Nic isn’t concerned about the digital divide in the context of
• Wallumatta Legal given all its services are delivered online;
• How Wallumatta Legal will improve access to justice across the sector;
• Why they recruit a ‘different kind of lawyer’ at Wallumatta Legal;
• The biggest challenge in the first six months of the firm’s operations;
• Plans for scaling and expansion of this model into other jurisdictions and areas of law;
• Why Nic thinks that there aren’t more low bono or alternative models servicing the needs of people at the lower end of the legal market;
• The potential for regulatory reform to facilitate technology use and other models to improve justice outcomes for marginalised people;
• The opportunity for firms to collaborate and establish a network of low bono and not-for-profit law firms; and
• Nic’s definition of legal innovation.

Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic!

Links:

• Wallumatta Legal
• Neota Logic Solution Gallery
• Neota Logic
• Churchill Trust Project
• Survey
• Future Ready Regional and Rural Legal Conference

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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This is the third episode in a 3-part series about justice entrepreneurship.

Part 1 provides an overview of justice entrepreneurship - 3 categories of justice entrepreneurship with real examples from each of the categories and the problem solved.

Part 2 covers 5 key factors to maximise the likelihood of success of your justice innovation. You might be surprised to hear about some of them!

And now in part 3, we look at funding options and some of their pro’s and con’s.

Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic

Links:

• Landers
• Village Capital
• Grant connect
• Grant search
• Neota Logic
• Churchill Trust Project
• Survey

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In episode no. 86 I had the pleasure of speaking with John Lord, Co-founder and Chairman of long term sponsor of the podcast, Neota (formerly Neota Logic).

We discuss:

• What John wants the world to know about no-code and why;
• Some unintended consequences of no-code including hybrid working models;
• How no-code supports the democratisation of information in both commercial and public interest contexts;
• The areas of law that are suited to apps, what can be built, and how they help;
• The scope of opportunity for legal technology both in terms of market and career choices;
• The genesis of the university program that Neota now operates in 18 universities around the world and its involvement with pro bono;
• Outcomes from university ‘Law Apps’ courses including an example of how Neota’s technology resulted in homes being repaired in a remote Aboriginal community;
• How an app assists people to have criminal records expunged in the United States;
• The meaning and relevance of the name ‘Neota’; and
• John’s definition of legal innovation.

Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic!

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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This is the second episode in a 3-part series about justice entrepreneurship.

Episode 3 was an overview of justice entrepreneurship - the types of issues justice entrepreneurs work on, the 3 categories of justice entrepreneurship with real examples from each of the categories.

This episode covers 5 key factors to maximise the likelihood of success of your justice innovation. You might be surprised to hear about some of them!

Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic

Links:

• Justice Entrepreneurship
• Artificial Lawyer
• Neota Logic Solution Gallery
• Neota Logic
• Churchill Trust Project
• Survey

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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This is the second episode in a 3-part series about justice entrepreneurship.

Episode 3 was an overview of justice entrepreneurship - the types of issues justice entrepreneurs work on, the 3 categories of justice entrepreneurship with real examples from each of the categories.

This episode covers 5 key factors to maximise the likelihood of success of your justice innovation. You might be surprised to hear about some of them!

Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic

Links:

• Justice Entrepreneurship
• Artificial Lawyer
• Neota Logic Solution Gallery
• Neota Logic
• Churchill Trust Project
• Survey

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In episode no. 83 I speak with Co-founder, CEO and General Counsel of Turnsignl, Jazz Hampton. We discuss:

• The problem that prompted the creation of TurnSignl and how Jazz and his co-founders knew it was the right time to act;
• The professional backgrounds of the three black founders;
• What Turnsigl does and how it works to protect civil rights at scale;
• How Turnsignl gets to the people who need it (it’s an interesting approach);
• The product’s similarity to roadside assistance programs or an insurance policy;
• Turnsignl’s partners across different sectors;
• Why Jazz describes the users as the ‘3 P’s’;
• How to know if Turnsignl is working;
• Power imbalances that exist in civil and criminal law contexts;
• How Jazz considers Turnsingl provides mental health support;
• Turnsignl’s technology resources and funding model;
• The difference working in a team when you’re responsible for their salaries;
• Whether you should consider your employees as family;
• Biggest challenges as a justice entrepreneur especially growing a two-sided marketplace;
• Something that justice entrepreneurs shouldn’t be nervous about;
• Why you don’t need a non-profit vehicle to make a difference (and why a business model might be more suitable);
• Attributes that gave Jazz the confidence to move from practising law to the becoming an entrepreneur;
• Insight into his work ethic;
• Something unique about the foundation for Turnsignl’s work;
• What is ‘moving at the speed of trust’; and
• Jazz’s definition of legal innovation!

Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic

Links:

• TurnSignl
• Neota Logic Solution Gallery
• Neota Logic
• Churchill Trust Project
• Survey

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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Episode no. 83 is the first episode in a 3-part series about justice entrepreneurship.

This episode covers:

• What is justice entrepreneurship?
• What are the types of issues justice entrepreneurs work on?
• The 3 categories of justice entrepreneurship
• Real examples from each of the categories
• A question to you about what motivates law firm owners?
• What’s coming up including an interview with a passionate justice entrepreneur and more short solo episodes on how to activate justice entrepreneurship

Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic

Links:

• Justice Entrepreneurship
• Neota Logic Solution Gallery
• Neota Logic
• Churchill Trust Project
• Survey

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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Episode no. 82 is about “Law Labs”.

In Part 1, I cover:

• What is a Law Lab and where and why were they set up?
• What kinds of issues or projects do Law Labs work on?
• Who are the key stakeholders and the benefits they receive (should I establish one)?

Part 2 is all about:

• 4 things you need for a viable Law Lab (in under 4 minutes!)

Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic

Links:

• Institutionalizing Legal Innovation: The (Re)Emergence of the Law Lab
• Neota Logic Solution Gallery
• Neota Logic
• Churchill Trust Project
• Survey

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In episode no. 81 my guest is Brian Tang, Founding Executive director of LITE Lab@HKU and Co-chair, Asia-Pacific Legal Innovation & Technology Association (ALITA). We discuss:

• Career path (which will be interesting to law students);
• How he became involved with innovation in the law in Hong Kong;
• Main justice issues in Hong Kong;
• What LITE stands for, and why it is intentionally a “Lab”;
• How the Lab works with students from 6 out of the 10 faculties at Hong Kong University;
• Topics and the experiential experiences that are covered in the Lab’s courses and why;
• How LITE Lab partners with tech start-ups, NGOs and in-house counsel to co-design research projects;
• Examples of the innovative projects including workers compensation, low-income tenants, discrimination, womens’ rights, human trafficking and foreign workers;
• Cultural foundations of ‘pro bono’ and differences in approach across the world;
• Capacity and evolution of NGOs affecting their response to implement technology;
• Why Brian considers the LITE Lab a ‘marketplace’ of sorts;
• The criticism that undergrad courses and hackathons are not effective;
• The potential of low code/no code, including the ability to maintain software in-house;
• Need for integration with existing corporate and NGO systems;
• Issues of funding and software sustainability of applications developed by NGOs;
• Impact investing, ESG requirements and social entrepreneurs’ potential for the future;
• Asia-Pacific Legal Innovation and Technology Association’s (“ALITA”) mission;
• Categories of ALITA awards (closing soon!); and
• Brian’s definition of legal innovation!

Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic

Links:

• LITE Lab
• My employee is pregnant
• Neota Logic Solution Gallery
• Neota Logic
• Churchill Trust Project
• Survey

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In episode no. 80 I discuss multidisciplinary teamwork in the context of law firms and legal tech start-ups developing products, services and projects. I cover:

• An explanation of multidisciplinary collaboration and teamwork (and what it’s not);
• Effective and real-life examples in both a commercial and not-for-profit context; and
• Tips for making the most from working with a multidisciplinary team.

Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic

Links:

• Neota Logic Solution Gallery
• Neota Logic
• Churchill Trust Project
• Survey

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In episode no. 79, guests Simon Goodrich, Co-founder and Luke Thomas, senior legal designer, Portable cover:

• Portable’s work and its founders’ motivation to do the work it does;
• Simon’s journey from community radio and running a film festival to his current work;
• What prompted Portable’s foray into justice issues and how design and technology can leverage high value tasks and have impact;
• Specific justice projects including with family violence, young people, wage theft issues and Amica;
• Luke shares his daily activities of a legal designer;
• The stage of the design process that both Luke and Simon think is most critical;
• What Luke has learned from working on numerous projects;
• Why Simon thinks constraints are good, and tips on navigating them;
• How to determine whether an organisation will succeed with a design project;
• Simon’s creative ways to get around resourcing constraints to make a project happen;
• Whether online information, advice or dispute resolution will make the most difference;
• Broader actions that are required to improve people’s experience of the law;
• Tips for effective multidisciplinary collaboration;
• Approaches that lead to better design outcomes;
• The one thing they want you to know about Portable; and
• Simon and Luke’s definition of legal innovation!

Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic

Links:

• Portable
• Neota Logic Solution Gallery
• Neota Logic
• Churchill Trust Project
• Survey

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In episode no. 78, Andrea explores all things document automation. She covers:

• What is document automation;
  Use cases in the commercial and not-for-profit context;
• Factors to consider when embarking on a document automation project;
• What kinds of documents to automate; and
• How to overcome barriers to adoption of technology.

Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic

Links:

• Document Automation - Neota Logic
• ‘Legal Document Automation – Measuring ROI’ by BamLegal – Artificial Lawyer
• Neota Logic Solution Gallery
• Neota Logic
• Churchill Trust Project

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In episode no. 75 I speak with Catherine Bamford, CEO & Founder of BamLegal. We cover:

• BamLegal’s clients and services;
• The UK legal industry’s adoption of document automation;
• How Catherine addresses some common objections to legal technology;
• The relevance of time billing and fixed fee in this context;
• How legal technology intersects with ‘real lawyering’;
• Who should and shouldn’t ‘own’ a legal tech product or project;
• How legal technology vendors get sales pitches ‘wrong’;
• Catherine’s ‘why’ for leaving BigLaw and the steps that led her to create her own business;
• How Catherine got started with legal technology, what she’s working on now and why;
• Real examples of how document automation assists people with low-middle income;
• How point-in-time online guidance has significantly improved accuracy of UK divorce forms;
• Other advantages of technology for clients, lawyers and courts;
• Catherine’s motivation to produce ‘BamBytes’, ‘Breakfast with Bam’ and to compile innovation and technology resources for the ecosystem;
• Her thoughts on how the next generation of lawyers approach legal tech;
• Just how ‘uberised’ the legal process is right now;
• Her personal characteristics that suggest she would work in legal technology;
• The job role that was invented when she was working at Pinsent Masons;
• What jumping in cold rivers and rearranging beer cellars has to do with Catherine’s career;
• Similarities between legal analysis and computer coding;
• What Catherine wishes she knew when she started her business;
• The impact of being able to say “I’m a lawyer” when becoming a legal engineer;
• How Catherine structures her business to enable flexibility in her team; and
• Catherine’s definition of legal innovation.
  Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic

Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic

Links:

• BamLegal
• Neota Logic Solution Gallery
• Neota Logic
• Churchill Trust Project

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In episode no. 76 I share my comments from an International Women’s Day event in Brisbane in early March, hosted by 9 University of Queensland and Queensland University of Technology clubs.

I share what breaking the bias means to me and how I apply it in practice, and a particular bias each of us possess and need to be aware of if we are to innovate and bring about social change.

Also, as the title suggests, how actress America Ferrera helps us to understand why we don’t innovate more!

Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic

Links:

• Your identity is your superpower
• International Womens Day Cocktail Evening
• Neota Logic Solution Gallery
• Neota Logic
• Churchill Trust Project

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In episode no. 75 I speak with Jason Tashea, Consultant with the World Bank and Innovation Fellow at Vanderbilt University. We discuss:

• Jason’s motivation for his new project, ‘40 Futures’;
• the fine line between dystopian fiction and reality;
• Jason’s writing process and the ‘rules’ he set for himself in developing the project;
• ’40 Futures’ topics including technological surveillance, improper use of alerts, bio-data, digital privacy laws, automated police vehicles, use of genetic material and ‘the metitentiary’!;
• ‘Problem finding’ and ‘threatcasting’;
• the consequences and rights implications of technology or services;
• the principles that Jason shares that could guide development of technology;
• a real-world example Jason is working on with the World Bank;
• our short-term, quick fix approach compared to long term approaches;
• feeback he’s had from people outside the legal innovation community about the project;
• what popular TV shows like ‘Law and Order’ did for people understanding their rights;
• interdisciplinary collaborations to share information!!
• the ‘Justice Technology Association’ – mission and activities;
• update on changes to professional legal regulation in the USA;
• how to get people’s attention on these issues;
• Jason flipping the interview onto me; and
• Jason’s (non-!) definition of legal innovation.

Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic

Links:

• ’40 Futures’
• Justice Tech Download newsletter
• Eastern State Penitentiary Historic Site
• Episode with Ed
• Neota Logic Solution Gallery
• Neota Logic
• Churchill Trust Project

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In episode no. 74, I continue the conversation about technology in courts from episode 73 with Dr Anne Wallace and discuss online dispute resolution “ODR”. I cover: * How ODR is defined; * 6 key characteristics of ODR; * Advantages and disadvantages of ODR; * International and Australian examples of ODR; * The different forms of technology used in ODR; * The volume of disputes resolved by e-commerce platforms; * Whether ODR should be applied to resolve disputes at scale; * How an effective ODR should be designed and what it should include; * Is there a professional obligation to use ODR and in what circumstances?; and * For the first time on Reimaging Justice, I answer a listener’s question!

Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic

• 2021 Innovation Committee Report
• Neota Logic Solution Gallery
• Neota Logic
• Churchill Trust Project

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In episode no. 73 my special guest is Dr Anne Wallace, Adjunct Professor La Trobe University and Deputy Director Sir Zelman Cowen Centre. We discuss:

• what first prompted Anne’s interest in technology and court processes;
• court innovations from the 1990’s and how those initiatives have progressed;
• how courts and lawyers have adapted to the pandemic;
• how close we are to a virtual court;
• advantages of audio visual links for providing evidence and what should determine whether it should be adopted more broadly;
• what currently informs court strategy and what should do so;
• court surveys and what they uncover;
• the potential for courts and researchers to work together to develop indicators to measure people’s experience;
• the potential for apps and SMS messages to assist litigants given the proliferation of mobile phone usage;
• automate and enable people to do preliminary work paired with intelligent assistance – CRT;
• the opportunity for lawyers to use technology to diversify their services and tap into the latent legal market;
• why the Victorian court’s response to the pandemic didn’t surprise her;
• courts’ awareness of the need for ‘innovation’ and the relevance of that language;
• how working with an architect and other disciplines provided Anne with new insights;
• changes in the mindset of members of the legal industry and Judges;
• how legal education could encourage multidisciplinary engagement;
• Anne’s predictions about technology in courts as we move through the pandemic;
• Imaginative dispute resolution in overseas jurisdictions; and
• Anne’s definition of legal innovation.

Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic.

Links:

• Wallace, A and Laster, K “Courts in Victoria, Australia, During COVID: Will Digital Innovation Stick?”
• International Consortium on Court Excellence
• International Womens Day Cocktail Evening
• Neota Logic Solution Gallery
• Neota Logic
• Churchill Trust Project

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In episode no. 72 I share with you 3 (or maybe 4!) things you should know about legal design. The episode covers:

• The definition of legal design;
• How it differs from human-centred design and design thinking;
• 3 categories of legal design;
• Real examples of legal design in commercial and not-for-profit contexts;
• Some key elements of any effective legal design process;
• Questions to ask if you’d like to implement legal design;
• How legal design intersects with technology; and
• A special offer from me!

Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic

Links:

• Legal Design Lab
• Legal design summit
• The Design of Everyday Things
• Neota Logic Solution Gallery
• Neota Logic
• Churchill Trust Project

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In episode no. 71 my guest is Principal Legal Designer, Inkling Legal Design, Sara Rayment. We discuss: * Why legal design makes sense to Sara; * The types of projects Inkling Legal Design work on and the common thread between them; * Common characteristics of Inkling’s clients; * The approach to legal design that sets Inkling apart; * The diversity of skills in her law firm and design practice; * What science has to do with design thinking; * The challenges of managing diverse projects; * How linear project management, budgets and agile approach interrelate; * The most difficult aspect of working with a new client; * Key elements of successful legal design for projects and the people involved; * How design sprints are just one part of a project, and the importance of being able to communicate ‘the story’ to facilitate implementation; * Participants’ emotional reactions to the various stages of a design sprint and how they encourage personal growth; * The primary purpose of user-testing; * How law students respond to design thinking; * An AI tool developed by Inkling Legal Design to assist lawyers more easily adopt plain language; * The lack of consistency in approach and rigour towards legal design as a discipline; and * Sara’s definition of legal innovation.

Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic Links:

• Inkling legal design
• Andie Assists
• Neota Logic Solution Gallery
• Neota Logic
• Churchill Trust Project

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In episode no. 70 my guest is lawyer, creator and producer of social project ‘Law for the Lay’, Clarissa Campbell. We discuss: * The project she began in 2019 to share the law with everyday people; * What happened that prompted her to actually start the project; * How her personal and professional background influences her approach; * Her unique style using play and humour to share legal information; * How she chooses the topics that she covers; * Her legal and branding concerns relating to ‘Law for the Lay’; * How she selected which social media platform to use, and the challenge of staying up to date with how algorithms work; * What a “Lawfluencer” is; * Research she’s done for the project which shocked her; * Topics that have received unusual responses and how she handles those challenges; * The level of technical support she receives and how she manages her time; * Things she’s working to improve about her communication; * Other ways in which citizens’ legal awareness could be increased; * How acting on our own ‘agency’ and unique skills can assist others; * Given it is open to interpretation, I had to ask about her choice of name for the project; * Covid interruptions and future plans; and * Clarissa’s definition of legal innovation.

Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic

Links:

• ‘Law for the Lay’ Clarissa (@lawforthelay)
• Saga Land
• Overland Track
• Neota Logic Solution Gallery
• Neota Logic
• Churchill Trust Project

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In episode no. 69, I reflect on the podcast over the past 12 months and since it began. I share:

• statistics about Reimagining Justice (downloads, topics, guests and listeners);
• the most downloaded episodes this year and since the podcast began;
• an excerpt from Episode 66 with founder Courtroom5 Sonja Ebron;
• characteristics of (award-winning) justice innovators; and
• 3 things I learned about legal innovation this year.

Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic.

Links:

• Neota Logic's App Gallery
• Neota Logic
• Churchill Trust project
• QLS Innovation report
• Top Australian law podcasts

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In episode no. 68 my guest is serial public sector transformer, Pia Andrews. We discuss:

• how her pursuit of “truth” led her to the open-source movement and working in policy development;
• how technological tools relate to our quality of life;
• ‘open source’ – its philosophy and implementation and the idea of “clever hacks”;
• how ‘rules as code’ addresses issues with enforcing regulation;
• prescriptive and principles-based rules and when each are appropriate;
• the connection between the cost of implementing regulation and its effectiveness;
• how an API for prescriptive rules relating to anti-money laundering and counter-terrorism funding could have saved one bank $16M per year!;
• how ‘rules as code’ make compliance more transparent by allowing for modelling, and how this could increase accountability of the public sector;
• how current policy creation is insufficient and requires input from community and an example from France which incorporated co-design of policy;
• Taiwan’s response to the introduction of Uber!
• the importance of multidisciplinary teams in developing policy and how ‘rules as code’ facilities doing so in real time;
• how ‘rules as code’ improves trust and compliance with administrative law and shifts the onus to government;
• different public sector approaches to the “new normal”;
• how the relationship between the public sector and its government drives outcomes;
• whether a public sector should serve – the government, parliament or the people?
• 3 things necessary to create an environment for innovation and solving wicked problems;
• the connection between capacity and innovation, and Pia’s ideas about how to increase civic participation through a “civic gap year” and “policy difference engine”; and of course
• Pia’s definition of legal innovation.

Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic

Links:

• Linux Home
• TedX multipotentialite Emilie Wapnick: Why some of us don't have one true calling | TED Talk
• Docassemble
• Legislation as Code and better rules
• Building a trustworthy public sector with trust infrastructure
• Neota Logic's App Gallery
• Neota Logic
• Churchill Trust project

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In episode no. 67 I speak with Kate Briscoe, of LegalBeagles. The discussion covers:

• how Kate’s inability to get a job played a part in starting LegalBeagles;
• how LegalBeagles works today;
• the large numbers of threads and visitors to the site;
• the emerging areas of law covered by LegalBeagles;
• who the volunteers are, what training they undertake to assist on the platform and why Kate thinks they contribute;
• how LegalBeagles is filling a gap and providing assistance that isn’t being provided anywhere else including from the funded Citizens Advice Bureau;
• LegalBeagles’ governance structure and relationship with professional legal regulation;
• Kate’s views on how a lot of innovation initiatives put the “cart before the horse”;
• the many reasons it may not be appropriate to go to a lawyer;
• how machine learning is drawing on LegalBeagles’ employment law data to provide instant responses;
• various set-backs LegalBeagles has experienced including loss of a major partner;
• Kate’s thoughts on the role of the legal profession in addressing the justice crisis;
• sources of monetisation and sustainability of the platform;
• where legal consumers actually go for legal help and how they know who to trust;
• the link between litigation, health and justice;
• how the model is saving lives; and
• Kate’s definition of legal innovation.

Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic

Links:

• LegalBeagles
• JustBeagle
• SRA | Solicitors Regulation Authority
• Neota Logic's App Gallery
• Neota Logic
• Churchill Trust project

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In episode no. 66, I speak with Sonja Ebron, founder of Courtroom5. The discussion covers:

• Sonja’s personal experience as a litigant and how that relates to her work today;
• The types of matters Courtroom5 is best (and not!) suited to, who and how it assists;
• How the patterns in the law support AI, and how that fast-tracks self-represented litigants’ understanding of their matters;
• The factors for litigants to do best using Courtroom5;
• The tools Courtroom5 employs to alleviate emotional distress;
• The importance of support during litigation and how Courtroom5 provides that;
• What a “trial playbook” is;
• How Courtroom5 engages with courts and legal assistance organisations;
• Judges’ bias against self-represented litigants???
• The structure and composition of Courtroom5’s team;
• Why Courtroom5 constantly seeks customer feedback;
• Key factors that drive development of the product;
  The biggest change since Courtroom5 commenced in 2017;
• Who are the unexpected users of Courtroom5;
• What has given the company “the biggest boost”;
• How Courtroom5 address the challenges of keeping information up to date;
• What keeps the founders working on such an intractable problem; and
• Sonja’s definition of legal innovation.

Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic

Links:

• Courtroom5
• Neota Logic's App Gallery
• Neota Logic
• Churchill Trust project

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In episode no. 65 I speak with Michael Green SC, Barrister and founder of Barnet.

The discussion covers:

• Open Law and how technology can make information more accessible;
• Who are custodians of legal information and how to best maintain it for future generations;
• The importance of libraries, their centrality to the law and the function of a library in an online world;
• The changes to the practise of law over the past few decades due to digitisation;
• Issues of copyright in digitising Commonwealth Law Reports in the “One to a hundred project”
• A failed experiment in the law:
• How BarNet’s purpose and activities have changed since 1997 including splitting the networking and the legal publishing functions;
• How legal researchers select online research platform;
• Why JADE considers cases at the “paragraph level” and how it actually works in terms of citations, note-ups and the technology and research that supports it;
• Current research into the differences in information retention from paper and electronic means;
• The function” of paper in reflection and contemplation, and limitations of online research;
• The question of ownership and resourcing of online materials;
• The role of predictive analytics and imagination in moving our society forward;
• The difficulty in reconciling different lenses through which we should regulate AI;
• The need to think carefully about the role of justice, courts and litigants;
• How Michael has maintained a busy practice at the bar and an online research company; and
• Michael’s definition of legal innovation.

Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic

Links:

• Open Law
• Jade
• Welcome to ICLR
• Neota Logic's App Gallery
• Neota Logic
• Churchill Trust project

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In episode no. 64 I speak with Aniket Doegar, CEO and co-founder of HESPL (Haqdarshak Empowerment Solutions Private Limited), a social impact organisation working on easing access to welfare in India. We cover:

• What Haqdarshak offers to people and how its services are delivered through the most trustworthy channel;
• The key reasons that people in India don’t access government social services;
• Bridging the information gap between the government and its citizens;
• Why Haqdarshak works with local women and the training they receive;
• The challenges of training people in digital literacy;
• How many families and small businesses they’ve assisted, and how many female entrepreneurs they’ve trained;
• Collaborations they’re working on;
• The impact of the pandemic on their programs and technology channels and key factor meaning they could continue operating during the pandemic;
• The importance of both in-person and online options;
• Haqdarshak’s funding model and how they engage corporates to pay for justice (20min);
• The barriers they’ve faced in obtaining government information and the resources they use to keep it accurate and up to date;
• The reason they don’t advocate for change, even though they have lots of data;
• Why investing in their tech stack has facilitated innovation;
  The focus on the product first before scaling the program;
• Aniket’s background in the social justice sector;
• How using human centred design saved a lot of time along the entrepreneurial journey;
• The best form of technology to employ;
• How they got clear on their mission and vision; and especially what not to do;
• Haqdarshak’s roadmap to incrementally scale, improve process and culture in order to reach 100M people;
• What “Haqdarshak” means; and
• Aniket’s definition of legal innovation.

Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic

Links:

• Haqdarshak
• Neota Logic's App Gallery
• Neota Logic
• International Conference of Legal Regulators
• Churchill Trust project

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In episode no. 63 I speak with Genevieve Wilkinson, Lecturer, Faculty of Law, and Dana Rutner Law and Journalism Student at the University of Technology Sydney and team leader of “Moral Code”, the winning team of 2021 Allens Neota UTS Law Tech Challenge for social justice winning team. We discuss:

• what attracted Dana to the challenge;
• the format of the Law Tech Challenge, and the stakeholders involved;
• the critical role of mentors from Allens and the importance of the Neota training;
• what made the difference to working well as a team;
• how the teams gained a thorough understanding of the issues facing their partner not-for-profit Autism Spectrum Australia, “Aspect”; how they tested their ideas and the apps;
• the winning “Raffle app” – what’s unique about it, how it assists Aspect and its likely impact; is potential to scale and the challenges in achieving that;
• ethical issues relating to technology including from a human rights perspective;
• other apps created during the challenge to assist not-for-profit partners including Siana - helping International Social Service Australia with international child abduction applications under the Hague convention; Apollo - a volunteer coordination app for Respect Now Always; and Empower Her - reporting and providing feedback for the mentoring program for the Women's Justice Network;
• the key thing Dana learnt from this experience;
• the points of difference in this program;
• the benefits of collaboration between a law school and its students, not-for-profits, software providers and a law firm!
• Dana and Genevieve’s one word to describe the challenge; and
• Dana and Genevieve’s definitions of legal innovation.
  Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic

Links:

• Law Tech Challenge Grand Final 2021
• Aspect
• International Social Service Australia
• Respect Now Always
• Women's Justice Network
• Neota Logic's App Gallery
• Neota Logic
• Feedspot

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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Episode no. 62 is with Lindsay Greatorex, Community Liaison and Education Officer (West Kimberley) with Legal Aid Western Australia (LAWA). We discuss:

• Blurred Borders - legal resource kits using visual art and storytelling to explain legal concepts in a culturally appropriate way
• why the kits were developed and how the project got started
• what sticks and rocks have to do with a bail process map
• the number of kits that have been distributed and who uses them
• the process the project team undertook to get the language and the art “right”
• the importance of community outreach in remote areas
• what accounts for the kits’ universal appeal
• how an artist identified what was missing and what that meant for adoption of the project by the community
• the form of user-centred design unique to this project
• the importance of collaboration across sectors
• the key benefits from the project
  some unintended consequences of the project
• how community workers have used the resource in helpful ways in local language
• the challenges of developing a project in such a remote area three times the size of the Tasmania (including the need for flexibility, high staff turnover and lack of understanding of the English language)
• the importance of having the right people to maintain the relationships in community and to ensure that it was culturally appropriate
• the tension between investing time to save time
• how Legal Aid WA determines if the project is having impact
• how the project engages clients and increases interaction
• what Lindsay would do to expand this project if he had a magic want
• whether technology would be appropriate for this application
• future uses for the resource kits and
• Lindsay’s definition of legal innovation!

Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic

Links:

• Blurred Borders
• Evaluation
• Guide to the Kimberley - Tourism Australia
• Neota Logic
• Feedspot

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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Episode no. 61 features Dan Jackson, Executive Director and Jules Rochielle Sievert, Creative Director of NuLawLab, Northeastern University School of Law.

The NuLawLab is the interdisciplinary innovation laboratory at Northeastern University School of Law. It is one of the first law labs established in the US and its staff, students and stakeholders are leading the way in the emerging global Legal Design movement.

Through its programs, projects, seminars, and research the lab builds cross-disciplinary teams and community-based partnerships focused on transforming legal education, the legal profession, and the delivery of legal services.

The discussion covers:

• how the NuLawLab approaches problem-solving and collaborates with artistic people outside the walls of academia to find new ways of moving through complicated issues and to provide people with greater access to their legal rights;
• how integrating various design methodologies provides the freedom to explore and to work with community needs and values;
• what Dan and Jules see as the current and future possibilities for legal design, and what legal design shouldn’t be;
• how law students are involved in both long and short scale work;
• details of projects including RePresent game, and Stable Ground and how they had to pivot with the onset of the pandemic;
• how building trust with community organisations long term can shift the work from transactional to transformational;
• issues with innovation funding and how it could be better spent;
• how co-design centres community leadership and leverages resources to assist direct services;
• how each project and team gets started and developed (and why the lab doesn’t have an application form!);
• where project funding comes from and other important forms of sustainability;
• how Dan and Jules respond to requests to articulate the value of the lab’s work;
• the need to bridge the “language gap” between people from different disciplines;
• how black letter lawyers can approach work with people from other disciplines and why we need to work with creative fields;
• key factors for a successful innovative lab;
• how legal design enables lawyers to exercise their creativity;
• Dan’s idea about add-athons and Jules (re)definition of legal innovation!

Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic.

Links:

• NuLawLab
• Neota Logic
• Feedspot

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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Episode no. 60 is with Stephanie Rudolph, Deputy Director of Justfix.nyc.

JustFix is an American not for profit which believe all tenants deserve dignified housing - and that technology plays a supportive role in equipping tenants and the housing justice movement with the tools, information, and organizing power critical to this fight for racial and economic justice.

JustFix co-creates tools with tenants, organizers, and legal advocates to fight displacement and achieve stable, healthy housing for all, leveraging the power of data and technology to support individual and collective action for housing justice.

Our discussion covers:

• Statistics and types of housing issues prevalent in New York City and the impact of Covid19;
• Perverse consequences of rent laws which disproportionately affect low income, and elderly tenants;
• Justfix services and how it's been assisting people during the pandemic including with the hardship declaration and eviction tracker tools;
• A recent and surprising change to Housing Court process;
• How Justfix ensures its online tools are as accessible as possible;
• How Justfix increases tenants’ options for interacting with courts and the ‘Who owns what?’ tool empowers tenants;
• The Design Advisory Council and how it engages both experts and community;
• The benefits of unrestricted project funding;
• What software Justfix relies on;
• How justfix got started as an organisation and how it measures its effectiveness now;
• The differences Steph has experienced betwen project-based and casework;
• Justfix’s future plans including to provide national assistance; and
• Steph’s definition of legal innovation.

Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic

Links:

• Justfix.nyc
• Blue Ridge Labs
• Robin Hood Foundation Robin Hood
• Neota Logic
• Feedspot

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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Episode no. 59 is with Nicole Bradick, Founder and CEO of Theory and Principle.

Our discussion covers:

• Nicole’s journey from civil rights trial lawyer to CEO of a design and development company;
• Why 2018 was the right time to start Theory and Principle;
• Whether Theory and Principle responds to or creates a legaltech market;
• Why the Mission statement is to improve legal experience for all;
• Nicole’s focus on deliverables rather than size of the company and what will enable scale given the large pipeline of work;
• How she manages a broad and diverse scope of work for legal tech companies, large law firms and non-profits;
• Current and forthcoming products Theory and Principle have built for clients and in-house (Map Engine and a project to leverage pro bono work);
• Keys to managing a multidisciplinary team of lawyers, engineers and designers;
• How they use workflows/standard operating procedures when the way they do things is constantly changing;
• How Theory and Principle creates efficiency while developing bespoke projects;
• When it’s appropriate for a lawyer to design a product and when you need a specialist designer or UX expert;
• How building a digital product is difficult even if you’ve done it before;
• Theory and Principle’s unique value proposition;
• What technology you should use to create an MVP and meet business goals;
• The limitations of grant funding for digital justice products;
• What will kill even the most phenomenal product;
• How Theory and Principle measures whether a product is successful;
• The relative importance of legaltech, legal aid and pro bono casework;
• A particularly exciting project looking at innovative ways to increase people’s income;
• How to transform legaltech from being passive to proactive and reducing cycles of poverty;
• What bothers her most about the legaltech ecosystem in the USA;
• Which part of the legal sector is developing the best solutions;
• The biggest surprise that led her to success; and
• Nicole’s definition of legal innovation!

Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic

Links:

• Theory and Principle
• Legal Tune Up (Wisconsin)
• Neota Logic
• Feedspot

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Episode no. 58 features Roger Smith, Author of Law, Technology and Access to Justice blog.

Our discussion covers:

• How Roger first became interested in law, tech and atj;
• How Australia led the world in legaltech;
• How cuts to legal aid meant it was imperative to turn to tehcnology;
• Why Roger started the blog in 2016 and who forms the law, tech and atj community;
• The one key issue Roger sees with developing and implementing legal technology;
• Victoria Legal Aid’s evaluation of a ‘dud’ project;
• His optimism /pessimism about technology and what it means for law;
• An early example of world-leading innovation, legal design and international collaboration from The Netherlands;
• How hackathons can be a way of supporting entrepreneurs in developing countries;
• The biggest changes Roger has observed over the past decade;
• The various clusters of innovation including remote working, reaching more people through remote information delivery; unbundling and assisted DIY, case management software, intakes and referrals;
• How case management could assist litigants;
• Why he says we reached peak justice in 2008;
• Structural issues which work against streamlining global legal delivery;
• Who are the leaders in access to justice strategy and technology;
• Whether the level of legal need will tip the adoption and demand for a global strategy;
• Roger’s views on regulatory reform (on unauthorised practice of law and fee-sharing (USA));
• The mission of the International Legal Aid Group, what will be covered in the upcoming conference and its 3 key policy achievements;
• 2 benefits of collaborating across jurisdictions; and
• Roger’s definition of legal innovation!

Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic

Links:

• Law, Technology and Access to Justice blog
• International Legal Aid Group Conference
• Rechtwjizer
• Research reveals the impact of Covid 19 on tribunal hearings
• Neota Logic
• Feedspot

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Episode no. 57 features Anne-Marie Cade, Founder of coaching and mediation service Divorce Right. Our discussion covers:

• why Anne-Marie pivoted from traditional legal practice to coaching and mediation;
• what conflict coaching, divorce coaching and parenting coordination actually is;
• how the structured coaching process and setting goals empowers clients to make better decisions;
• how shifting mindsets aids conflict resolution and results in a win/win situation;
• the different aspects of a divorce that many people don’t initially consider and the importance of explaining the process clearly to clients;
• the process required for clients to make decisions they can stick with;
• how different communication styles can influence the other party’s response;
• how parenting coordination helps parents navigate their co-parenting relationship post-divorce;
• the circumstances in which Courts appoint parenting coordinators;
• the best time to appoint a parenting coordinator and why;
• training and qualifications required to be a parenting coordinator;
• whether people other than lawyers can effectively undertake quasi-legal activities;
• what Anne-Marie aims to research on her Churchill Fellowship;
• the profession’s attitude to this innovation and its role in access to justice;
• Anne-Marie’s views on how technology can be most effective in the family law context including online mediation, disclosure and apps;
• how Divorce Right’s online “Divorce GPS” assists;
• how her clients have embraced online mediation and online family law forms;
• how she rebalances the traditional power imbalance between lawyer and client;
• the importance of understanding your own values and active listening as a lawyer and a client; and
• Anne-Marie’s definition of legal innovation!

Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic.

Links:

• Divorce Right
• Neota Logic
• Feedspot

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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Episode no. 56 is with Erin Levine, Founder and CEO of Hello Divorce. Our discussion covers:

• Erin’s journey from lawyer to legal entrepreneur and why she can’t go back;
• What Hello Divorce is and how it was inspired by Australian lawyers;
• How technology is saving clients tens of thousands of dollars;
• Key differences between traditional practice models and Hello Divorce;
• What Erin has learned about people’s behaviour during divorce;
• The process Erin undertook to develop the products and divorce navigator;
• Whether you should build software or buy it off the shelf;
• How Erin manages the issue of unauthorised practise of law;
• The challenges and benefits of expanding Hello Divorce into more States;
• Erin’s motivation for transparent pricing and subscription services;
• Key differences between marketing Hello
• Divorce and a traditional law firm;
• How to develop trust online;
• As a busy entrepreneur, how Erin maintains her wellbeing;
• The one thing that has made the biggest difference to her business;
• Erin’s definition of legal innovation!

Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic.

Links:

• Hello Divorce
• FutureLaw 2021
• Neota Logic
• Feedspot

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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Episode no. 55 is with Dominic Woolrych, Founder of Lawpath. Our discussion covers:

• Lawpath’s origin story;
• Its current business model including how the subscription service works;
• The difference between “BigLaw”, “small law” and “tiny law”;
• The role of law societies in supporting legal innovation;
• Which software Lawpath uses and how it makes law “proactive”;
• One thing that is stopping lawyers from improving process efficiencies;
• Unexpected findings from surveying clients about legal design;
• Whether professional regulation is inhibiting innovation and how to overcome regulatory barriers;
• Whether clients should bear some risk in exchange for more affordable legal services;
• Keys to Lawpath’s success (including raising funding, consistent income and client retention);
• The multidisciplinary nature of the Lawpath team and how that assists the business;
• Lawyers’ responses to having online reviews, and the connection with new business;
• The one thing Dominic would have done differently on his entrepreneurial journey; and
• Dominic’s definition of legal innovation!

Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic.

Links:

• Lawpath
• Legal Zoom
• Neota Logic
• Feedspot

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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Episode no. 54 is with Sheetal Deo, Founder of Shakti Legal Solutions and Ethnic+. Our discussion covers:

• An image problem the legal profession has created itself;
• Her key reasons for starting Shakti Legal Solutions;
• The mechanics of its unique model;
• The resistance she faced as a junior lawyer in establishing a law firm;
• How Sheetal is helping other lawyers who want to help, bridge the justice gap;
• Who is responsible for access to justice;
• Her learning curve relating to the business of law and what assistance she received;
• How knowing your strengths and opportunities for improvement is useful;
• Her thoughts on lawyers having a duty to innovate;
• The barriers to legal innovation;
• Her advocacy for CALD and rainbow communities through Ethnic+ and other activities;
• How systems and structures, not individuals perpetuate the status quo;
• The connection between diversity, inclusion and access to justice;
• The lack of accessibility of lawyers and legal services;
• What “privilege” really means;
• How Sheetal plans to use her privilege to increase the visibility of underrepresented communities; and
• Sheetal’s definition of legal innovation!

Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic

Links:

• Shakti Legal
• Ethnic+
• Qld Law Society EPIC conference
• Future Leaders committee
• PEXA
• Fred Rooney
• Professor Renee Knake Jefferson
• Neota Logic

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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Episode no. 53 features Geoff Mulherin. Our discussion covers:

• The mandate of the Foundation and its practical approach to addressing legal needs;
• The importance of regular empirical evidence-based research;
• Findings from interviewing 21000 people about their legal needs;
• Where people most often go for legal assistance;
• How integrated multi-disciplinary services can help;
• Why the foundation developed interactive online legal data dashboards;
• Whether funding for justice needs redistributing across or within government portfolios;
• The need to view the justice system as a whole and reflect on who is included and excluded;
• The disproportionate amount of court resources for complex litigation as compared to legal aid budgets;
• The OECD and people-centred justice;
• The opportunity that the pandemic provides, to improve the operation of the justice system;
• The epidemiology of law and the need for “upstream strategic thinking” for justice; and
• Geoff’s definition of legal innovation!

Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic

Links:

• Law and Justice Foundation of NSW
• OECD People-centred justice
• Neota Logic

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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Episode no. 52 features Professor Professor Renee Knake Jefferson, Author and Doherty Chair in Legal Ethics at the University of Houston Law Center. Our discussion covers:

• The importance of understanding your own and others’ perspectives;
• Traits of the first female lawyers that make them the original legal innovators;
• The catalyst for Reinvent Law, one of the first legal design labs;
• The phenomena of new kinds of legal jobs;
• Her work as Fulbright Distinguished Chair in Entrepreneurship and Innovation at RMIT
• Key actions that will make the biggest difference for access to justice;
• Key findings from the book Renee co-authored, why it had to be written and has the title that it does;
• Who is Mildred Lily?
• The Rooney rule and the Mansfield rule;
• What is required to remedy gender inequality for minority women;
• How shortlisting preserves the status quo and is not a good indicator of inclusion;
• Her plans for future research; and
• Renee’s definition of legal innovation!

Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic and Legally Yours.

Links:

• Shortlisted: Women in the Shadows of the Supreme Court
• Renee Knake Jefferson
• Legally Yours
• Neota Logic
• Innovation in Australian law schools
• QUT Justice Society International Women’s Day event “Women in Justice”
• ACT Law Society webinar "What Are We Not Talking About?"

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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Episode no. 51 features Professor Tania Sourdin, Dean and Head of University of Newcastle School of Law. Our discussion covers:

• the impact of Covid19 on the profession;
• what’s surprised her about online disputer resolution during the pandemic;
• the difference between Supportive, replacement and disruptive tech;
• the role that legal professionals should take in adoption of technology and their innovation readiness;
• the need for a uniform and national ethical framework for technology adoption in law;
• suggestions for regulation including sandboxes which allow for safe experimentation;
• what the legal profession can learn from service delivery in other professions including medicine;
• appropriate and inappropriate uses of technology and how different client cohorts engage;
• the digital divide even within the profession;
• the lack of meaningful data being collected by courts; and
• Tania’s definition of legal innovation!

Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic and Legally Yours.

Links:

• “Justice in the age of technology: ’The rise of machines is upon us’”
• “Judges, Technology and Artificial Intelligence - The Artificial Judge“
• Legally Yours
• Neota Logic
• Impact 25 Pro Bono Awards
• ACT Law Society webinar "What Are We Not Talking About?"

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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Episode no. 50 features Kanan Dhru. Our discussion covers:

• What is user-friendly, people-centred justice;
• The importance of data and evidence-based research;
• HiiL’s justice dashboard;
• Key factors for innovation at scale;
• How the justice accelerator works;
• The parallels between the medical and legal professions;
• How HiiL is transforming the justice sector;
• What you will learn at the Innovating Justice forum;
• 7 gamechangers for improving people-centred justice;
• How Kanan’s definition of legal innovation has changed since Episode 8!

Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic and Legally Yours.

Links:

• The Hague Institute for Innovation of Law “HiiL”
• Innovating Justice Forum
• Haqdarshak (India)
• Legally Yours
• Neota Logic
• Pro Bono Impact 25 Awards

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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Episode no. 49 features Elizabeth Shearer, President of the Queensland Law Society (“QLS”) and Founder of Affording Justice. Our discussion covers:

• the impact of Covid19 on the profession;
• what changes should remain;
• the purpose of the QLS Access to Justice committee and the ‘scorecard’;
• best uses for technology and the opportunity before the profession;
• Elizabeth’s journey to establish Affording Justice;
• how the Affording Justice model has evolved;
• key takeaways from her Churchill Trust research into telephone delivery;
• how to define success as a lawyer;
• guidance on low bono and unbundling;
• how Elizabeth will know she’s been a success as QLS President; and
• Elizabeth’s definition of legal innovation!

Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic and Legally Yours.

Links:

• Affording Justice
• QLS Access to Justice Scorecard
• Elizabeth’s Churchill Fellowship report
• Legally Yours
• Neota Logic

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In this episode no. 48 I spoke with Laura Kiely, Barrister and Founder of online dispute resolution platform, Immediation. Our discussion covers:

How Laura’s experience in corporate law and at the Bar led her to this point;

• Immediation – the need it addresses, how it was designed and how it works in practice;
• The types of clients implementing it and the matters with which it assists;
• The role of government and private companies in filling gaps in the market, especially as relates to access to justice;
• The impact of Covid19 on dispute resolution in general and what this has meant for Immediation;
• How life as a lawyer compares to life as a start up founder and overlaps in skills;
• Why Laura continues to practise law while running a company with 50 employees;
• Immediation’s funding journey; and
• Laura’s definition of legal innovation!

Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic and Legally Yours.

Links:

• Immediation
• HRC ”Addressing the problem of algorithmic bias”
• Legally Yours
• Neota Logic

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In this episode no. 47, I speak with Stevie Ghiassi, CEO and co-founder of Legaler, and Chairman of Legaler Aid. Our discussion covers:

• The mission of Legaler Aid and how it works in practice
• What inspired Stevie to found Legaler Aid to address the justice gap
• How Legaler Aid is expanding the network of lawyers doing pro bono work
• What Stevie considers the first step in modernising legal services
• Why incorporating blockchain technology is critical
• Video conferencing technology Legaler and its application during the pandemic
• The work of the Australian Legal Technology Association (“ALTA”)
• Tips for founders including where to base yourself and getting the structure right
• The pending launch of comprehensive global research about the business of legal tech, the Global Legal Technology Report and Directory
• Stevie’s definition of legal innovation!

Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic and Legally Yours.

Links:

• Legaler Aid
• Legaler
• Global Legal Tech Report
• ALTA
• Legally Yours
• Neota Logic

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In this episode no. 46 I speak with Brendan Lacota, Head of Community Programs at Justice Connect and Vice-President of the Law Institute of Victoria.

This interview covers:

• How online tools help and what technology was used to develop: FineFixer, Dear Landlord, Justice Connect Answers and onlinewillkit.com
• How to design an online tool
• How to acquire skills to design an online tool
• Insights Brendan has gained and why he still applies them
• The best form of consumer facing legal technology right now and use cases for technology in the future
• What has most surprised him over his time implementing technology into a legal practice
• A specific product Justice Connect is developing to combat elder abuse
• His priorities for service with the Law Institute of Victoria and Law Council of Australia
• Brendan’s definition of legal innovation or, more particularly what it’s not!

Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic and Legally Yours.

Links:

• Justice Connect
• Fine Fixer
• Dear Landlord
• Paper Giant
• Online will kit
• Legally Yours
• Neota Logic

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In this episode no. 45 I speak with President of the American Bar Association and Partner, Snell & Wilcox, Ms Patrica Lee Refo.

This interview covers:

• The ABA’s mission, including racial equity and other practical strategies
• The current focus on unmet legal needs due to the pandemic
• The impact of the pandemic on the practise of law including remote working and training junior lawyers
• The once-in-a-lifetime opportunity facing the profession
• Who are the people best-placed to innovate and reform
• How the historic ABA resolution regarding reform was developed and passed
• The importance of experimenting and measuring what works
• The role of technology and paraprofessionals in creating more options for everyday people
• Specific ABA projects including Free Legal Answers, Legal Tech for a change, the Miranda tool and Floodproof app
• The power inherent in being a lawyer
• The need to build back justice systems that are better than before
• Ms Refo’s definition of legal innovation or, more particularly what it’s not!

Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic and Legally Yours.

Links:

• American Bar Association
• Free Legal Answers
• Legally Yours
• Neota Logic

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In this episode no. 44 I interview Lucy Ricca, Executive Director at Office of Legal Services Innovation, Utah Supreme Court.

Lucy and I discuss what is arguably the most significant changes to the practice of law in the US in approximately 100 years including reducing economic restrictions around who can practice law to enable more innovation, more scale, and more access for consumers of legal services. We canvas how the current rules of legal regulation limit innovation and access to legal services, and most importantly what we can do about that.

This interview covers:

• The key factors that led to establishing the Implementation Task Force on Regulatory Reform, especially how the task force progressed from theory to practice
• The work of the task force including setting up the regulatory sandbox
• What a regulatory sandbox is and its process for assessing risk
• Key concerns from lawyers about the potential rule changes
• The types of applications in the sandbox
• What will make the biggest difference
• Lucy’s definition of legal innovation

Links:

• Office of Legal Services Innovation, Utah Supreme Court
• Gillian Hadfield “Rules for a flat world”
• Legally Yours
• Neota Logic

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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Reimagining Justice covers issues at the intersection of innovation, law and social justice. You’ll enjoy it if you’re someone who hopes to make a positive improvement to people’s experience of the law through new ways of thinking and doing.

Self-represented litigants… do you love them or loath them? Well either way they are a fact of life and this episode will give you some ideas about how to best respond to self rep litigants no matter which side of the fence you’re on.

This is episode no. 43 and I speak with Katherine Alteneder, Consulting Senior Strategic Advisor with the Self-Represented Litigation Network.

This episode covers:

• how the network most effectively facilitates people from diverse backgrounds,
• how the network measures the value of its work,
• exactly what self-help is and why it’s considered a core service of the court,
• her idea for a community council to hold courts accountable,
• Katherine’s definition of legal innovation, and
• the importance of judicial education about self-representation.

If there’s one thing you won’t want to miss it will be Katherine’s tips on what to do when you find yourself opposing a self-represented litigant and practical ways of assisting emotionally charged clients so you can get on with the legal work.

Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic and Legally Yours

Links:

• Self-Represented Litigation Network
• Justice for All Project (Amanda Brown interview) and
• How to apply a commercial mindset to reap results for your legaltech project with Amanda Brown
• Court navigators
• Self-help
• Legally Yours
• Neota Logic

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In this episode no. 42 I speak with Kate Fazio, Head of Innovation and engagement at legal services charity Justice Connect, where Kate leads an interdisciplinary team to develop products and strategies such as the Gateway Project and Pro Bono Portal to increase access to Justice.

For her work transforming justice Kate has received many awards including the 2020 Telstra Business Women’s Award (For Purpose) and the 2019 Victorian Premier’s Design Award in Service Design. As a lawyer, technologist and journalist with a Masters in Social Impact, Kate is a change-maker bringing an intersectional lens to improving access to justice in Australia.

This interview will be helpful if you want to embed digital transformation across your organisation or guarantee a program with impact. And wait until you hear Kate’s definition of MVP.

You should listen to this episode if you want to know more about:

• The work of Justice Connect (“JC”), its clearing house function and how it assists individuals and not-for-profit organisations
• How online strategies have extended JC’s impact
• How JC determined its digital transformation strategy
• The human-centred design process for digital innovation projects
• The best time to release a digital product
• The tensions that exist when prioritising projects and for community lawyers working with agile project design
• Sources of funding for new projects
• How JC digital projects have assisted with response to the
• Australian bushfires and the pandemic
• The key benefits of technology
• The role of data and measurement
• The “divide” between private and public legal service delivery
• The role of law schools could take to research social impacts of the law
• Kate’s definition of legal innovation
• How her views have changed since commencing this work

Proudly sponsored by Neota Logic and Legally Yours.

Links:

• Justice Connect
• Pro Bono Portal
• Legally Yours
• Neota Logic

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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This is episode no. 41 and I am speaking with experienced lawyer, and advocate for survivors of domestic and family violence, Angela Lynch, CEO of Women’s Legal Service Queensland.

With over 23 years in the domestic violence legal sector, Angela has a deep understanding of the issues and translates this practical legal knowledge and experience into significant law reform, policy, community legal education and safer client outcomes.

In 2017 Angela’s dedication to the sector was acknowledged when she was awarded the Lawyer’s Weekly Women in Law Not-for-profit Lawyer of the Year, and Women in Law Excellence Award and the Women’s Agenda National Emerging Leader in the Legal Sector award.

In this episode we discuss the work of Women’s Legal Service Qld in championing frontline operations, external advocacy, client services including for rural and regional women, and fundraising. You will hear how women’s legal service has responded to the pandemic, in particular the significant increase in demand for its services after lockdown, in changes to its service delivery, managing staff and volunteers and how it has been able to influence government policy.

Regarding digital innovation, we discuss the penda app, which was a first of its kind offering to assist women with legal and financial information. Angela shares how the idea came about, where the funding came from, the challenges of hosting the app and advice she’d give to other organisations or lawyers looking to develop similar tools.
We covered projects that arose when women’s legal service observed specific community needs not being met, as well as Angela’s opinions relating to family court initiatives including the lighthouse project.
You should listen to this episode if you want to hear how human-centred design works in action, and how in response to the pandemic, technology is increasing access to justice.

Links:

• Women’s Legal Service Qld
• Law & Justice Foundation NSW “Quantifying the legal and broader life impacts of domestic and family violence, Justice issues paper 32”
• Penda App
• The Lighthouse Project
• Neota Logic

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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Each Reimagining Justice episode covers issues at the intersection of law, social justice and innovation. You will enjoy it if you are someone who hopes to improve people’s experience of the law through new ways of thinking and doing.

Welcome to episode 40 where the tables have been turned, the interviewer is Walkley award winning journalist The Wandering journo Nance Haxton and the guest is me!

After years at the ABC, and a stint as Griffith university’s journalist in residence, Nance is now a freelance podcast producer with podcasts including “Streets of Your Town”, Remarkable Tales and The Gender Card (link to her website in the show notes).

The core topic of this episode is the Churchill Trust fellowship research I undertook from December last year to February this year when I met global leaders in justice innovation just before Covid19 changed the world.

I outline what a Churchill fellowship is exactly, why I applied, the process involved and the reasons I was a successful recipient. I share some of my personal and professional motivations for the research choices, where I went and who I met.

There were some challenges along the way and it was a feat of organisation to be travelling every 3 or 4 days, preparing for meetings and synthesising all the information, and this challenge has continued since returning home and writing the report.

Having said that, there were many highlights and I share those, as well as the key factors for success of the outstanding projects I experienced firsthand.

The report from the research will be available soon. It is broken into 8 themes (which I set out in this episode) across 3 key areas -

• Information about projects having the most impact;
• Practical strategies for duplicating that success; and
• Key recommendations for moving the conversation about justice innovation forward in Australia, which are likely to be controversial to some.

Nance ensured I didn’t escape providing my definition of legal innovation and my goals for the future, and drawing on her extensive experience as a journalist, we covered the very important topic of the impact of Covid19 now and into the future.

You will want to tune in if you are curious about how human centred design can improve systems and processes, best use cases for digital innovation, why multidisciplinary collaboration is important and how legal education can equip all of us to deal with future challenges.

Neota's no-code app-building tool Canvas, enables you to prototype a functional web application capable of sophisticated reasoning and complex outcomes to ensure your legal expertise can be accessed online anywhere, 24/7.

Neota Logic is a leading no-code AI automation platform, providing professionals with a wide range of easy-to-use tools to automate any aspect of their services. There is no better time to transform your legal services to digital and right now Neota is offering a 30-day free trial of Canvas.

Links:

• Winston Churchill Trust
• Upsolve
• MADE
• Nance Haxton
• Neota Logic

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In episode 39 I speak with Jon Cina, Associate Director, Access and Equity at Victoria Legal Aid (“VLA”). In this role since 2016, Jon oversees the legal help contact centre, funding to Victorian community legal centres, support and innovation in the sector all the while maintaining a focus on a whole of client approach to legal service delivery. VLA deals with a huge volume of inquiries each year and during this interview we discuss the approaches VLA is implementing to best respond to those needs.

Jon studied law in Scotland and had various roles in UN War Crimes Tribunals in the former Yugoslavia, Rwanda and East Timor. Once he moved to Australia, he managed an inquiry at the Victorian Parliament Law Reform Committee and in his roles as Assistant and Acting Director of Court support services at the Department of Justice and Regulation helped to make the court system more effective. Immediately prior to joining VLA Jon led the team that established the Victorian Mental Health Complaints Commissioner.

Jon and I talked about VLA’s legal help online, formerly known as Orbit, and initially developed in conjunction with code for Australia using human centred design principles. We covered the challenges of the referral roundabout, managing user expectations, how there is no single solution that will apply to every user, collaboration across the sector and change management within the organisation; and the benefits that flow to the user and the organisation if you get things right.

Jon shared how relying on data about how people use VLA’s website while keeping a very strong focus on impact actually determines the solutions, as well as learning from the past as VLA did in a very public way with the below the belt app.

You should listen to this episode if you are interested in overcoming challenges that accompany any process design or redesign project, especially large ones in a public sector context.

Neota's no-code app-building tool Canvas, enables you to prototype a functional web application capable of sophisticated reasoning and complex outcomes to ensure your legal expertise can be accessed online anywhere, 24/7.

Neota Logic is a leading no-code AI automation platform, providing professionals with a wide range of easy-to-use tools to automate any aspect of their services. There is no better time to transform your legal services to digital and right now Neota is offering a 30-day free trial of Canvas. For more details, see the links in the show notes.

Links:

• Victoria Legal Aid
• Below the Belt app case study
• Legal Design Lab
• Law, Technology and Access to Justice (Roger Smith)
• IndigenousX
• Neota Logic

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In this episode no. 38 I speak with Eduardo Gonzalez, who has had a variety of roles in his short career and who is now Project Manager with the Self-representation Litigation Network (“SRLN”). The SRLN is a network of professionals including judges, court administrators, the private bar, technologists and librarians all connecting in relation to access to justice and whose core work is to support collaboration and knowledge sharing.

But Eduardo has also worked in legal design both as a consultant and at the NuLawLab at Northeastern University in Boston where he was involved in an exciting project using video games to educate self-represented litigants. For the last couple of years Eduardo has been an Access to Justice Technology fellow at Georgetown Institute for Technology Law and Policy, all experiences we discuss.

We covered the challenges in collating. updating and sharing information in a meaningful way, and insights from the participants in the SRLN justice tech working group that Eduardo coordinates.

I asked Eduardo towards the end of the interview to predict the future and he rises to the challenge. You will also be surprised to hear that he is able to draw a connection between doorknobs and self-represented litigants.

We touched on a really fascinating subject that I haven’t covered in the podcast before now, which is surprising really considering the benefits, and the title about today’s episode gives you a hint about that.

You should definitely listen to this episode if you are interested in applying user centric design principles or how to improve knowledge sharing in the interests of a better justice system.

I met Eduardo in January and was impressed with his knowledge about the principles of justice sector innovation and his passion for it, and I suspect you’ll hear that coming through in this interview. Here’s Eduardo.

Neota's no-code app-building tool Canvas, enables you to prototype a functional web application capable of sophisticated reasoning and complex outcomes to ensure your legal expertise can be accessed online anywhere, 24/7.

Neota Logic is a leading no-code AI automation platform, providing professionals with a wide range of easy-to-use tools to automate any aspect of their services. There is no better time to transform your legal services to digital and right now Neota is offering a 30-day free trial of Canvas.

Links:

• Georgetown Institute for Technology Law and Policy
• SRLN
• NuLawLab
• RePresent
• Study Crafter
• Neota Logic

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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This is episode no. 37, with Associate Professor and Dean of law at Flinders University Tania Leiman in which we cover many highly current topics.

From history to the future, looking back in order to improve how we move forward, skills for lawyers of the future, how technology has evolved to make the law more accessible, what law students should know about Australia’s place in the world and being a global citizen, how to increase legal literacy, the role of law in all our lives, how Flinders University is delivering all that in their new curriculum, the tension between doctrinal knowledge and skills development including the relevance of the Priestly 11, how regulation is meant to protect the consumer, the value of legal education and Tania’s position on legal innovation.

Tania sees technology as a tool for promotion of human rights and social justice. In this interview she very clearly describes how law binds our society together and the important and interconnected role of law schools, lawyers and regulators.

You should listen to this interview if you are a law student wanting to understand the skills you will need for the future, a lawyer interested in using technology to connect with your clients or the type of mindset you need to innovate your service delivery, an educator committed to providing the most value through the process of legal education or a regulator concerned about protecting the legal consumer.

Through leading the implementation of the new law curriculum Tania is certainly an educator putting the student at the centre.

Neota's no-code app-building tool Canvas, enables you to prototype a functional web application capable of sophisticated reasoning and complex outcomes to ensure your legal expertise can be accessed online anywhere, 24/7.

Neota Logic is a leading no-code AI automation platform, providing professionals with a wide range of easy-to-use tools to automate any aspect of their services. There is no better time to transform your legal services to digital and right now Neota is offering a free 30-day free trial of Canvas. For more details, see the links in the show notes.

Links:

• Flinders University
• Imperatives for Legal Education
• NuLawLab
• FLIP report
• Neota Logic

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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This episode no. 36 is with Program Manager of LawHelp Interactive at Pro Bono Net, Claudia Johnson.

When in some states of America there are 27 forms to file for a simple divorce, we discuss where responsibility lies to make the law relating to housing, health, and family issues, more understandable for lay people, which is particularly important given the global rise in numbers of self-represented litigants.
There’s been a theme going for the past few episodes around the use of document automation to make legal service delivery more efficient, but more importantly effective and scalable when it’s based on human centred design principles. Again in this episode we cover smart forms, use cases they’re best suited for and some they’re not - and importantly, how to decide. As Claudia says, “there are easy ways to use tech to magnify the goodness of law and show respect to your clients”.

We also talked about Claudia’s project with Bay area legal aid which centralised intake for a large number of clients over a large area, from different language groups. This was a significant exercise in change management and Claudia shares her tips for success.

Claudia spoke passionately about her work with the National Language Advocate Network, a group that works to promote non-discrimination on the grounds of national origin, and considering the diversity in America, the conclusions she’s reached about why materials aren’t available in many more languages.
Claudia has an extensive career in innovative projects and you will learn a lot from her whether your work is in a commercial or community law context.

Neota Logic is a leading no-code AI automation platform, providing professionals with a wide range of easy-to-use tools to automate any aspect of their services. The time has definitely come to transform your legal services to digital and at the moment you can sign up to a 30-day free trial of Canvas. For more details, see the links in the show notes.

Links:

• Pro Bono Net
• LawHelp Interactive
• NY Times article
• Bay Area Legal Aid
• Rochelle Klempner
• Claudia Johnson blogs on “Legal Services Policy Research and the Elephant in the Room”
• National Language Advocate Network (N-LAAN)
• Standards for Language Access in Courts
• Best Practices for Access-Friendly Court Electronic Filing
• Tim Baran’s interview
• Neota Logic

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In this episode no. 35, I speak with New Orleans based lawyer Amanda Leigh Brown.

Amanda is founder and Executive Director of Langiappe Law Lab, a legal aid technology non-profit serving Louisiana’s justice community by empowering the public with legal information and helping legal service providers do their work better.

Throughout her career Amanda has worked on apps that assist people after disasters, a state-wide portal system providing information and referrals and practical and ethical guidelines to use when developing AI.

We touched on the importance of data and the biggest challenges to any project and Amanda shared the differing responses she received to the online legal information portal. On a personal level she shares how she first developed an interest in tech and the influence of law school on her career choices.
One of the things I found most interesting about this conversation was the impact on her of her experience at Microsoft.

Of course the pandemic has spurred Amanda on to even more action and you can hear about how - in a very short time - she developed a rent relief app, government subsidies navigator and leveraged an existing platform to enable people to find legal assistance.

Speaking of apps that can be developed quickly, with Neota's no-code app-building tool Canvas, you will be able to prototype a functional web application capable of sophisticated reasoning and complex outcomes within minutes to ensure your legal expertise can be accessed online anywhere, 24/7.

Neota Logic is a leading no-code AI automation platform, providing professionals with a wide range of easy-to-use tools to automate any aspect of their services. The time has definitely come to transform your legal services to digital and at the moment you can sign up to a 30-day free trial of Canvas. For more details, see the links in the show notes.

Neota Logic is also a member of ALTA, the Australian Legal Technology Association. ALTA provides a community to Australian legal technology companies for information sharing, collaboration and building the presence of Australian legal technology on the global stage and is holding a virtual conference at the end of this week, with some great sessions and speakers.

Links:

• Lagniappe Law Lab
• Rent relief app
• Economic relief navigator
• Legal Navigator project
• Justice for all project
• ALTAcon

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In this episode no. 34, I speak with Sydney-based lawyer Carly Stebbing who established Resolution 123 - a law firm using technology and flexible work to deliver employment law services to employees in a fast, simple and affordable way.

Carly has over 13 years of employment law experience working for employer associations, law firms and volunteering at community legal centres. The fact that she has worked for employers means she has the benefit of knowing how employers think and what their lawyers will be advising them. Carly is a Flexible Workday Ambassador and has numerous awards, winning law firm Innovator of the Year in last year’s Women in Law awards.

This episode covers a lot of ground and will have wide appeal, especially if you’re interested in how to run a client focused firm for the everyday person while incorporating technology into your business model.

Carly shares the concerns that initially prevented her from starting her firm, and the factors that came together to mean she eventually did take the leap from a secure position as partner to start-up founder in a relatively untested market. What Carly has come to learn is that there is demand for a firm offering legal services in the way she’d imagined and that the missing middle is a large and largely untapped legal market.

Of course right now employment is a big issue facing our country and around the world and so we also talk about where and how she is sharing information that will most effectively assist workers to make informed choices and advocate for their rights. Those of you interested in legal design will be curious about that part of the interview.

Resolution123 has adopted a very agile approach to shift quickly to address employment law matters which have arisen out of the pandemic, which I have to say is no small thing. You might get some ideas here about how to adjust some of your services to meet the current needs of your clients.

Carly was very open in discussing the challenges of managing client expectations for affordable legal services and about the importance of having realistic expectations of what can be achieved through technology.

This episode brought to you by Neota Logic. Neota Logic is a leading no-code AI automation platform, providing professionals with a wide range of easy-to-use tools to rapidly build applications that automate any aspect of their services.

The time has come to transform your legal services to digital. You can sign up to a 30-day free trial of Neota's rapid no-code app-building tool, Canvas. Within minutes you can prototype a functional web application capable of sophisticated reasoning and complex outcomes and ensure your legal expertise can be accessed online anywhere, 24/7.

Links:

• Resolution123
• FLIP report
• QLS Innovation committee
• Neota Logic

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In this episode no. 33 I speak with Quinten Steenhuis, Clinical Fellow at Suffolk University Law School doing what I would describe as ground-breaking work through a project responding to the covid19 crisis by bringing essential legal services online.

But before this project, as a senior housing attorney and systems administrator at Greater Boston Legal Services Quinten had developed MADE, an effective legal tech product assisting people with eviction proceedings. He also runs his own consulting business Lemma Legal focusing on user-facing technology projects.

You’ll no doubt hear the excitement in my voice as we discuss MADE and the current document assembly line project which needs many adjectives to describe it because it’s ticking so many boxes. It’s global, responsive, innovative (of course), collaborative, necessary and open source.

And Quinten told me that they are still looking for volunteers so if you’re interested follow the links in the show notes.

And another thing that will be really interesting to you even if you aren’t a community lawyer but one of the many innovative lawyers listening is the information Quinten shared about the process of starting, testing and implementing a document automation project.

There are significant differences between the design of client facing products and internal information systems and we cover this including the legal information/advice issue.

You will gain insight into the benefits to your business of these kinds of approaches, including clients’ ability to access information after-hours and the time savings, which will consequently enable you to spend time assisting more clients or with your existing clients on higher value tasks.

I’m very grateful to Neota Logic for sponsoring the podcast. Neota Logic is a leading no-code AI automation platform, providing professionals with a wide range of easy-to-use tools to rapidly build applications that automate any aspect of their services.

This episode brought to you by Neota Logic.

Links:

• The Document Assembly Line Project
• MADE
• Lemma Legal
• Neota Logic

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In this episode no. 32 I speak with Jennie Pakula, Manager of Innovation & Consumer Engagement at the Victorian Legal Services Board and Commissioner. We covered a lot of ground in this interview, charting the role of regulator from traditional disciplinarian to modern stakeholder solving challenges of both clients and lawyers; examples of effective uses of technology in the profession; and the purpose of a regulatory inbox.

We covered the kinds of issues lawyers are looking to professional and regulatory bodies for guidance upon, including the whole legal information/advice divide and where issues arise regarding unauthorised practice of law. Jennie was very open in sharing the kinds of questions that come into the regulatory inbox, which will provide insight into the type of innovation currently moving the profession forward.

Jennie discussed the work of the new consumer advisory committee at the commission and whether regulation has actually been fulfilling its true role in protecting the consumer.

Jennie has been an innovator for many years and is passionate about making legal services better. Her “great desire is to see lawyers reinventing legal practice so that it meets the needs of a whole new market of consumers.”

After being admitted to practice in 1988 Jennie spent around 5 years in commercial law before joining the NSW Law Society in 1994, where she worked in ethics and complaints for 12 years. In 2006 Jennie moved to Melbourne and then took up a role at the Victorian Legal Services Commissioner where for 8 years she managed the front end of the complaints and enquiries process, reading a whopping 14,000 complaints. In December 2018 Jennie was very happily appointed to the new role of Manager, Innovation & Consumer Engagement.

You should listen to this episode if you are concerned that the innovation you are considering for your practice may breach current rules of professional regulation; if you would like to know the best way to approach your state regulator with your ideas; what kinds of technological applications are unlikely to fall foul of current regulation and how the Victorian regulator at least is working with the profession to address the emerging needs of lawyers and clients.

I’m very grateful to Neota Logic for sponsoring the podcast. Neota Logic is a leading no-code AI automation platform, providing professionals with a wide range of easy-to-use tools to rapidly build applications that automate any aspect of their services.

Today’s episode is a conversation about the relationship between consumers, lawyers, technology and ethics, all of which will remain live issues, if not become more important as this current crisis continues, and resolves…

This episode brought to you by Neota Logic.

Links:

• Victoria Legal Services Board and Commission
• Aurecon
• Neota Logic

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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This episode no. 31 is a really important one in light of current circumstances and the impact on the legal profession, not only through disrupted working conditions but regarding current modes of conducting hearings - it covers issues of grave importance to maintaining the rule of law.

I speak with Dr. Natalie Byrom who is Director of Research at UK The Legal Education Foundation where she leads work to build the evidence base for what works in helping individuals to secure their rights. Last year she was seconded to Her Majesty’s Courts and Tribunal Service as Expert Advisor on Open Data and Academic Engagement where her remit included advising on the data architecture and methods required to evaluate the impact of technology focused court reform on both access to and the fairness of the justice system.

The 3 big topics in this episode are:

• the urgent shift to online hearings we’re seeing right now around the world - whether they are taking account of more vulnerable people and what could be done to improve the processes if indeed they become a part of the new normal after this crisis is over;
• the importance of collecting evidence for evaluation – not only to demonstrate impact to funders but to improve on current practices, and
• the relationship between digitisation and systemic reform.

As part of those conversations we covered the importance of screening for legal needs to profoundly assist with complex social problems and the work of the Legal Education Foundation’s new Justice Lab.

Natalie shared examples of resistance she’s faced to evaluation, the importance of understanding how digital delivery of legal services aids or inhibits inclusivity and makes a very important point about the connection between funding and evaluation.

You should listen to this episode if you are curious about the impact of online courts on access to justice; in evaluation as a tool to demonstrate your organisation’s impact, or generally interested in best uses of technology in the delivery of legal services.

I’m grateful to Neota Logic for sponsoring the podcast. Neota Logic is a leading no-code AI automation platform, providing professionals with a wide range of easy-to-use tools to rapidly build applications that automate any aspect of their services.

This episode brought to you by Neota Logic.

Links:

• The Legal Education Foundation
• Digital Justice: HMCTS data strategy and delivering access to justice
• Briefing: Coronavirus Bill, Courts and the Rule of Law1
• Civil Resolution Tribunal
• Neota Logic

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In today’s episode no. 30 you are in for a treat to hear from Hallie Jay Pope, founder and director of the Graphic Advocacy Project “GAP”, a non-profit that uses visual communication tools---like comics, graphic design, and animation---to explain legal concepts and advance social justice. Hallie works with advocates and communities across the United States to create visual legal resources that engage, inform, and mobilize.

Hallie is a delightful and creative person and very clear about her mission and how to achieve it, by drawing on her skills as an artist and designer, and lawyer.

In this episode she shares how she became a legal cartoonist, how the GAP came about and the projects she’s worked on over the last 3 years. Hallie has strong views about why legal information is so hard to understand and discusses the biggest advantage of her law degree.

We talked about naked characterisations of people - you’ll just have to listen to make sense of that and towards the end of the interview, Hallie defines legal innovation by what it’s not – both a lawyerly and creative response.

Hallie was very frank about the challenges of founding and running the GAP and no doubt there will be entrepreneurs listening who will empathise.

You should listen to this episode if you want to understand the benefits of visual justice, or you are challenged by resourcing and fundraising in your organisation and of course, if you are interested in making the law more understandable to the everyday person.

This episode brought to you by Lex Narro and Neota Logic.

LINKS:

• Graphic Advocacy Project
• The Convivial Toolbox
• Making comics by Linda Barry
• Lex Narro
• Neota Logic

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In today’s episode no. 29 I had the pleasure of speaking with Carolyn Devries, CEO and founder of Australia’s first non profit law firm New Way Lawyers for today’s episode. When Carolyn experienced a disconnect between how law is practised and what she learned in law school, and wanted to find a way to express her core values through her work, she developed the idea of and founded new way lawyers 10 years ago.

Carolyn has strong views and advocates at every opportunity as to why legal services that involve strong emotions for the clients, such as family law and estate law, should be delivered through a non profit model. She sees family law as a community service with strong public policy implications, and I tend to agree. Provision of legal services, or someone’s inability to access legal services can lead to a greater demand on other social services.

Carolyn shared her personal story about the early days of new way law, the fun and not so fun parts, especially being challenged by other members of the profession about her approach, sometimes from sectors of the profession you would expect to be more supportive. And you might be wondering, being not for profit how is this business sustainable? Carolyn explains how she keeps the lights on, while keeping her staff happy and her fees affordable.

If you are someone who tunes in to hear about the use of technology in a practice, you’ll get a few tips towards the end of the interview regarding how to maximise efficiency and streamline services. Apart from increasing your profit margins, doing so could garner you interest in your practice from around the country and overseas, as it has in the case of New Way lawyers.

This episode brought to you by Lex Narro and Neota Logic.

• New Way Lawyers
  Lex Narro
  Neota Logic

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In today’s episode no. 28, I interview John Mayer, Executive Director of the Centre for Computer Assisted Learning Instruction (CALI) since 1994.

CALI is a non-profit consortium of 198 US law schools that conducts applied research in computer-mediated legal education and publishes over 1000 tutorials in 40 different legal subject areas for law schools, law firms and others interested in learning about the law.

CALI also publishes Creative Commons law books at elangdell.cali.org and is the developer of A2J Author which is used by courts, legal aid and law schools to automate legal processes and court forms for self representing litigants.

John explains what it was that led to the initial development of open source document assembly software, A2J Author around 20 years ago now and how it is improving processes for courts, self-represented litigtans and lawyers.

John sees almost unlimited potential in making it easier to compile information for courts but also appreciates the challenges that legal assistance organisations face in doing so. He has some interesting views about the part that commercial legal tech vendors can play in this regard and somewhat curiously, the challenge of marketing a free platform.

We discuss the best use cases for document automation and his views on AI and blockchain and also some deeper issues about social change movements and why innovation thinking is preferable to design thinking.

John has a Bachelor of Science in Computer Science from Northwestern University and a Masters of Science in Networks and Telecomm from the Illinois Institute of Technology and has been working in legal education for over 30 years.

This episode brought to you by Lex Narro and Neota Logic.

Links:

• Centre for Computer Assisted Learning Instruction “CALI” and elangdell.cali.org
• A2J Author
• LSC grants
• Lex Narro
• Neota Logic

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In today’s episode no. 27, I interview Meera Klemola, legal designer extraordinaire.

We discuss what Meera appreciates about design - how it can break down silos between lawyers and other professionals, allow for empathy, change mindsets and de-risk solutions.

I asked her the benefits and limitations of design thinking and how it compares to systems thinking. Meera has carefully considered all these issues through her work and postgraduate study into teaching design to non-designers, in particular lawyers. We also covered the essential ingredients of a successful design thinking project and how to evaluate effectiveness, something I’m always interested in.

If you want to hear me being put on the spot with a creativity exercise definitely tune in. You might also be surprised about Meera’s views on whether anyone can practise legal design and whether it should be taught in law schools.

Meera’s philosophy is to enable courageous change with design and technology. As a trusted advisor to global brands and top tier law firms, she is constantly exploring the ways design and technology can strategically advance businesses and legal systems.

Formerly, Lead Legal Designer of a Nordic Law Firm, Meera was responsible for the integration and scaling of design practices through the firm to transform its offerings. She also spearheaded a series of design driven ventures for the firm including co-founding Europe's first legal design agency. In March last year, she founded Observagency.

Both a strategic designer and lawyer, Meera holds a unique combination of qualifications in Law, Commerce and Design Management, giving her a truly multidisciplinary perspective and rare mix of creative, strategic and analytical know-how.

This episode brought to you by Lex Narro and Neota Logic.

Links:

• Observ Agency
• Legal design Hague Institute for Innovation in Law
• Stanford Legal Design Lab
• Lex Narro
• Neota Logic

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In today’s episode no. 26 I speak with Rohan Pavuluri, co-founder and CEO of Upsolve, a non-profit that helps low-income families file bankruptcy for free, using an online web app. In the last 12 months, Upsolve has relieved over $100 million in debt and is the largest not for profit provider of bankruptcy in the US.

In this episode we discuss the issues that Rohan and his co-founder Jonathan Petts wanted to address in starting Upsolve, how the online platform actually works and who it is most suitable for. We cover the most common types of events that lead people into bankruptcy and why people should file but find it difficult to do so.

While Rohan studied statistics at university he explains where his personal interest in justice and policy comes from. He also shares some of his personal difficulties with this venture, how he dealt with doubt in the early days and the ongoing challenges - and also what he’s most proud of. And for justice entrepreneurs starting out with a new venture, Rohan had some unexpected advice.

This episode has it all and very much fits the themes of the podcast… sustainability, challenges of a justice entrepreneurship, the need for both advocacy and direct services, when to scale and when not to and the need for a deep understanding of the issue you are addressing.

I suspect Upsolve will go from strength and strength for many reasons. One of which may be the fact that it is focussed on 1 singular issue, what do you think?

This episode brought to you by Lex Narro and Neota Logic.

Links:

• Upsolve
• Robin Hood Foundation
• Blue Ridge Labs
• Legal Services Corporation
• Lex Narro
• Neota Logic

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In today’s episode no. 25, Edward Santow, Australia’s Human Rights Commissioner speaks to Reimagining Justice about one of many projects he is responsible for, namely the Commission’s Human Rights and Technology project.

Whether you know a little or a lot about human rights or artificial intelligence, you will gain something from listening to our conversation about the most extensive consultation into AI and Human Rights anywhere in the world. Ed explains exactly what human rights are and why they should be protected, how technology is both enhancing and detracting from human rights and the best approach to take in regulating emerging technology in the future.

We talked about protecting the rights of the most marginalized people, automated decision making and how to combat bias and something I found particularly fascinating, the tension between the universality of human rights, ubiquitous technology and how differing cultural contexts and historical experiences are shaping the principles that will guide both the development and application of technology.

Ed Santow has been Human Rights Commissioner at the Australian Human Rights Commission since August 2016 and leads the Commission’s work on technology and human rights; refugees and migration; human rights issues affecting LGBTI people; counter-terrorism and national security; freedom of expression; freedom of religion; and implementing the Optional Protocol to the Convention Against Torture (OPCAT).

• Australian Human Rights Commission
• AHRC Human Rights and Technology Project
• Australian Government AI and Ethics principles
• Australian Law Reform Commission Future Program 2020-25
• Lex Narro
• Neota Logic

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In today’s episode no. 24 Karen Finch, CEO of Legally Yours explains the reasons people don’t engage with lawyers and which suggested an online platform connecting clients with lawyers would be a valuable idea.

Karen explains how the connections are made through the platform and what is critical to a successful relationship between lawyer and client. She shared the biggest challenge she’s faced in promoting the platform and what is unique about it, including what she’s learnt and applied from dating sites and who she’s turned away.

We talked about the importance of people finding the right legal help at the right time and how beneficial it would be to the consumer legal market, for different stakeholders to collaborate on cross-referrals for different client groups and legal issues.

We briefly discussed the Australian Legal Technology Association and women in tech. I really loved Karen’s definition of legal innovation, probably because I could relate so much to what she said.

You should listen to this episode if you want to understand more about the barriers people experience in going to see a lawyer, are interested in developing trusted relationships with your clients, and otherwise curious about how legal services could be joined up so people know where and how to get legal help that they can trust.

This episode brought to you by Lex Narro and Neota Logic.

Links:

• Legally Yours
• ALTA
• B1G1
• Lex Narro
• Neota Logic

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In today’s episode no. 23, Stacy Butler, Director, of Innovation for Justice at the University of Arizona Law speaks about the courses she coordinates and teaches, how they came about, what they teach including how they incorporate design thinking methodologies, but most importantly what they add to systems reform in Arizona and especially their local community.

I was amazed to hear about the collaboration both within the courses themselves, with students from a broad range of disciplines, and collaboration across universities, which provides such a powerful voice.

Stacy shared about the importance of supportive leadership in running new initiatives like her courses and where she thinks innovation will make the most difference in the delivery of legal services in the next five years. She commented a few times that I asked her questions no-one had asked her before, not sure if that is a good thing or a bad thing…

You will gain a lot from this episode if you are establishing or running an innovative university course, especially one that is multidisciplinary, interested in the connections and impact that can be made by students, universities working with communities and regulators, and especially if like more, you just love the idea of law students and art students working together to develop more effective human services.

Links:

• Innovation for Justice
• Step Up for Justice
• Arizona Task Force
• Hello Landlord
• Tucson Rent Project
• Legal Design Summit
• Lex Narro
• Neota Logic

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In today’s episode no. 22, I had the great pleasure of speaking with Katie who is currently the Deputy commissioner of IBAC in Victoria and who in 2015 as then President of the Law Institute of Victoria wrote a paper “Disruption, Innovation and Change”. Her reasons for doing that research were quite unexpected, as was the connection she draws between tech, atj and her happy place the queen Victoria market!

You will gain a lot from this episode if you are a legal tech start up or technology company looking to partner with justice organisations or working in an organisation and responsible for implementing new projects.

Katie shares her definition of failure and the importance of leadership. We had a wide ranging discussion covering why solutions can’t be imported wholesale from other jurisdictions, tips for responding to people and organizations at different stages of their innovation journeys, how incorporated legal practices are relevant to innovation, challenges of implementing new technology in a government context and for community legal centres, and especially what’s needed with an organization before you consider collaborating on innovation projects.

This episode is brought to you by Lex Narro and Neota Logic.

Lex Narro is an easy to use app available on iOS, Android and web, that provides an effortless way for lawyers to manage, deliver and generate reports of CPD requirements. Subscribe here to make your lawyer life that little bit simpler.

Neota Logic is a leading no-code AI automation platform, providing professionals with a wide range of easy-to-use tools to rapidly build applications that automate any aspect of their services. Recently, Neota released Canvas – which goes a step further by allowing subject matter experts to build applications on their own in minutes without any prior training or programming skills. More about Canvas here.

Links:

• Disruption, Innovation and Change: The Future of the Legal Profession
• The Advantage
• Lex Narro
• Neota Logic

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In Episode no. 21 I interview the “father of incubators” Fred Rooney.

Fred generously shares his vast experience in establishing incubators in the US and other places around the world. From one program with nine students established around 15 years ago in New York, there are now over 70 programs worldwide training law graduates in areas of law that enable them to serve their local communities, as well as how to run a viable practice.

Incubators are unique training programs supported by a law school or law association as a way of addressing the issue of oversupply of law graduates and the growing levels of unmet legal needs. And through specific training in how to use legal skills to serve those who can’t afford typical legal fees, incubators are fulfilling the human need in lawyers who want to help those less fortunate.

This episode will be of special interest to legal educators wanting to ensure their graduate lawyers are ready for practice and to provide legal services to low and middle-income communities, and anyone interested in using their legal skills for the public good.

This episode is brought to you by Lex Narro, an easy to use app available on iOS, Android and web, that provides an effortless way for lawyers to manage, deliver and generate reports of CPD requirements. Subscribe here to make your lawyer life that little bit simpler.

Links:

• ABA Incubators Report
• Open Society Foundations
• Lex Narro

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In this episode no. 20 I interview Sue Garlick, the first community legal centre lawyer on the podcast. Sue is Joint Director of LawRight, formerly QPILCH, a pro bono clearing house in Queensland which increases access to justice for vulnerable people through strategic partnerships with pro bono professionals.

Sue explains why LawRight - which itself was an innovation for its time - was established and shared her thoughts on innovation broadly and especially in the legal assistance sector, as well as her views on the biggest access to justice issue and ways to address it using specific examples from LawRight’s multidisciplinary services.

You are likely aware of the major ongoing challenge for the sector, namely decreasing government funding, but you may be surprised by what Sue sees as other challenges in regards to innovation. She had some interesting, perhaps controversial views about whether empathetic lawyering may co-exist with an entrepreneurial mindset.

This episode will be of special interest to justice entrepreneurs wanting to hear first-hand from an experienced community lawyer about current issues and challenges, to community lawyers wanting to be innovative in their service delivery and law students interested in a career in social justice.

In my view, the multidisciplinary and client-centric approach of community lawyering comes through very strongly.

Links:

• LawRight
• Law Yarn
• Legalpedia
• Community Legal Centres Qld needs
• Lawyers Weekly article

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In this episode no. 19 I interview Mark Swivel and Fiona Spencer of Barefoot Law. Mark is the founder and principal, and Fiona an associate at Barefoot Law which is a low cost community legal clinic based in the Northern Rivers of New South Wales.

Barefoot Law is taking a unique approach to providing legal advice to its local community in a way that shouldn’t be a surprising – by charging extremely affordable fees. You might be surprised just how affordable! Keep listening to find out how the cover the unavoidable costs of running a law firm.

Mark explains what motivated him to start Barefoot Law, the kinds of advice they provide, how and where they deliver it. We talk about the disconnect between the profession and everyday people’s understanding of the law and what’s needed. Mark also shares some thought- provoking views about whether lawyers can be entrepreneurs.

Mark and Fiona were very open in sharing the somewhat unexpected and personal challenges they’ve faced in running a law firm that honours its clients in very human way.

This episode will be of interest to you if you’re looking for ways to minimise costs in your law firm, in providing legal services to the missing middle or how to deliver legal advice in less traditional ways such as through unbundling.

Links:

• Barefoot Law
• Citizens Advice Bureau

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In this episode no. 18 I interview the first technology provider on the podcast! Dominique Simsion is Asia-Pacific Director of Consulting and Solutions at Neota Logic - the no code AI platform that enables the creation of intelligent web applications. Dominique explains what no-code document automation and expert systems are, the origins and evolution of the LawApps course which is a university course teaching project management and other skills that haven’t traditionally been part of a law degree.

She was very open about the challenges for community legal centres and the potential benefits to Neota Logic in providing the course and positive about the outcomes for students. We covered about the challenge of sustainability for IT projects, how to turn talk into action including her tips for incorporating innovation across a legal practice and Dominique had some particularly interesting views on innovation by press release and hackathons.

This episode will be of interest to lawyers wanting to understand how a no-code platform could work within their practice, community legal centres curious about how to incorporate technology, legal educators and law students interested in a legal tech program or practical experience.

While there is understandable investment on Neota Logic’s part in the future of its own business and growing the ecosystem of those familiar with its platforms, there is a genuine commitment within the constraints of the university program, to make it the best experience possible for the students and the community legal centres that Neota Logic aims to support.

It’s a really interesting example of collaboration between a technology provider, community law, universities and the private profession and it illustrates my point that everyone can play a part in improving access to justice.

Links:

• Neota Logic
• LawApps University of Melbourne
• Youth Law
• Street Law
• “LEGAL INNOVATION” Education in Australian Law Schools

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In this episode no. 17 I was again fortunate to interview 2 people who’ve been part of a team working on an online tool to make it easier, quicker and cheaper for people to sort out claims arising from motor vehicle accidents. One of the guests is an expert in personal injuries law having represented people in some high profile and serious claims of sexual misconduct etc. and the other has a PhD in physics and before her current role was a post doc research fellow with the institute for bioengineering and nanotechnology.

Jodie Willey joined Shine Lawyers as a 16 year old articled clerk, keen to work with people to make a difference. For almost 25 years at Shine, Jodie has helped to shine a light on injustice and helped many thousands of clients and now, drawing on her blend of experience, Jodie is now focussed on innovation and how technology can transform the delivery of services in the legal sector.

Ann Bui joined Shine last year to work on the development of Claimify. Prior to this, Ann was a computational physicist, answering questions ranging from ‘how does malaria change the behaviour of red blood cells?’ to ‘how should conservationists classify the quality of sperm used in endangered animal breeding programs?’. You will hear in the interview exactly how a physicist has helped in developing Calimify suffice to say that using her computational modelling skills, Ann is keen to disrupt the legal industry so that there is greater transparency and access to justice for everyone.

In this episode you will hear about:

• Key features of the online tool and how having 10 years of data about a particular type of claim can more efficiently generate advice with the assistance of machine learning. In fact Ann draws parallels between how lawyers learn and how AI works; which begs the question of whether a lawyer could be replaced by a set of equations?
• How original assumptions about who might use the tool was challenged when the target was a youthful online user, but first client was a 62 yo woman.
• What’s critical if you’re in an established organisation doing “innovation”.
• The make up of the very multidisciplinary team and their process.
• Whether this type of tool could be approp for other types of claims
  including where the evidence is sensitive, and
• What has surprised Claimify about how and when people have used the platform.

You will especially enjoy this episode if you are interested in project management of a legal tech solution and what’s critical to success. What is quite unique about this online tool is the fact that it isn’t a legal tech start up or new law firm basically running a virtual law firm and providing a very client centric solution; but a very established Queensland law firm.

Links:

• Claimify
• ALTA
• Max Kelsen

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In this episode no. 16 I interview Miguel Willis, a 2017 graduate from Seattle University School of Law and currently the inaugural Presidential Innovation Fellow at Law School Admission Council, where he oversees the Access to Justice Tech Fellows Program which is a program that pairs law students with legal services organizations to develop projects that support the use of technology, data, and design-thinking to bridge the justice gap in America.

Miguel is committed to leveraging his law degree in a non-traditional way to solve seemingly intractable problems and in this episode you will hear examples of how he does just that.

Miguel shares with me the personal reasons that led him to set up this innovative program, and how he is aiming to fill a gap in traditional legal education. We cover how he went about doing so, the types of organisations involved and the interesting projects they work on and how it leads to opportunities for students. We also cover how, funnily enough, Miguel ended up being a fellow in his own program.

In this episode you will hear how one person turned a good idea into action, the benefits and challenges of hackathons, the key to partnerships that have real impact, and actions we can take to improve diversity in the profession.

You will especially enjoy this episode if you are interested in the entrepreneurs’ journey including how to overcome issues of program sustainability; and creative models for new legal education and justice solutions.

Links:

• ATJ Tech Fellows
• Justice Innovation Challenge
• Legal Services National Technology Assitance Project
• Internet bar organisation
• Innovation in Legal Practice Summit

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In this episode no. 15, I speak with namely Andrew Wight and Kath Manby of Adieu Legal, two people doing amazing work to make law better for people with family law disputes.

Andrew is an entrepreneur and multi-award-winning designer; CEO and co-founder of Adieu Legal, a Legal Tech start-up focused on creating better ways for humans to resolve conflict. Kath is a family lawyer with a single-minded passion for access-to-justice and as Legal Principal at Adieu Legal, exploring new ways to use technology to connect more people with good legal advice and keep them out of court.

Do you know what actually stops people from seeking legal advice? You might be surprised.

We explore issues with Australia’s family law system and how disputes and the growing epidemic of domestic violence could be reduced through ways other than court orders and the role of Adieu Legal’s sophisticated and very useful solution in all of this.

If you are interested in how human centred design helps identify people’s actual problems and leads to effective solutions, especially in the context of family law; or more generally, interested in legal tech and entrepreneurship to solve social problems and especially how clients can benefit from lawyers doing things differently and working in multidisciplinary teams – you will take a lot from this conversation with Kath and Andrew.

• Adieu Intelligent Divorce
• Andrew Wight Articles
• ALRC Family Law System Review – Final Report
• Impact Academy
• Family and Domestic Violence working with clients - The College of Law Training
• Lifeline's new Twitter DM chatbot

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In this episode no. 14, I speak with Joanna Mendoza, a member of the California State Bar Board of Trustees since 2013, and currently a member of the Task Force on Access Through Innovation of Legal Services.

Joanna and I discussed the recommendations voted upon by the Task Force on 28 June and where to from here. She shared why people from disciplines other than law need to be on a body that regulates lawyers, and where the risks should lie in the provision of legal services. We also talked about the wild card standing between the recommendations and their official implementation.

You will be interested in this interview if you want to understand the relationship between professional legal regulation and access to legal services, the influence of places like Silicon Valley on challenging the lawyers’ monopoly, and an emerging thread of the podcast, the importance of monitoring the effectiveness of any solution.

If you teach, study or enforce ethical rules, or have an idea that could potentially scale legal advice - lawyer or not; or are a potential investor in legal tech products or services – you won’t want to miss this conversation about the shifting sands of legal regulation….

Links:

• State Bar Task Force on Access Through Innovation of Legal Services Report
• TASK FORCE ON ACCESS THROUGH INNOVATION OF LEGAL SERVICES
• State Bar Study of Online Delivery of Legal Services – Discussion of Preliminary Landscape Analysis
• Task Force on Access Through Innovation of Legal Services
• Avvo
• Legal Zoom
• British 22-year-old lawtech entrepreneur raises £3.7 million from Facebook and Airbnb backers to help fund ‘robot lawyer’ app
• The College of Law

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In this episode no. 13, I interview Tim Baran, Law Help NY manager at Pro Bono net. Tim works with communities across the legal services, non-profit, and technology sectors to build solutions to help close the justice gap and expand access to legal help for low-income and vulnerable people.

I found my conversation with Tim very refreshing. It seems to me that Tim is an open minded realist He made many great points especially about how we need a high level of collaboration to solve the access to justice crisis.

You will want to listen to this episode if you are interested in knowing how 1 organisation is helping many other organisations to use tech to deliver legal information and connect people to lawyers, about sustainability of projects and measuring outcomes, and why we need to break down silos between different players in this space.

This interview will particularly appeal to you if you are a public service provider of legal resources, a community lawyer looking to incorporate digital projects, or if you’d just like to hear from someone working on the ground about the role for emerging technology and the opportunities before us right now.

Tim’s enthusiasm and desire to learn comes through in this interview. I hope you’ll be inspired by his journey and his work.


Links:

• https://www.probono.net/
• https://www.lawhelpny.org/
• https://www.justicepodcast.com/author/stevenson/
• https://designingyour.life/the-book/
• https://www.penguinrandomhouse.com/books/539747/winners-take-all-by-anand-giridharadas/9780451493248/
• https://www.amazon.com/Weapons-Math-Destruction-Increases-Inequality/dp/0553418815
• https://rosenfeldmedia.com/books/build-better-products/

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In this episode no. 12, I interview lawyer and founder of Barefoot Law in Uganda, Gerald Abila.

Founded in 2013, Barefoot Law is a non-profit organization using digital technology in innovative ways to empower people to develop legal solutions for their justice needs.

We covered so much in this interview including the specific challenges in sub-Saharan Africa, the type of tech that Barefoot Law uses most, how they reached the most vulnerable members of the community when tech couldn’t, and Gerald's views for the future including what he says is the ultimate law.

Gerald shares how he started Barefoot Law when he was in law school and his journey establishing an organisation with no resources. We also cover more personal reflections on the importance of values and what motivates him.

You will want to listen to this episode if you are interested in understanding the connection between AI and social good, law and maths, how to lead an organisation with very few resources and the importance of tailoring your solution to local conditions.

This interview will particularly appeal to you if you are a legal tech founder, community lawyer or seeking to understand the best way to leverage existing or emerging technology for positive social impact.

• Barefoot Law
• AI and social good
• Washington Access to Justice technology principles
• Sustainable Development Goal 16

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In this episode no. 11, I interview lawyer and academic Caitlin "Cat" Moon; the Director of Innovation Design for the Program in Law and Innovation (PoLI) at Vanderbilt Law School and Director of the PoLI Institute which provides training in legal innovation to practicing lawyers and legal professionals.

I could relate to the fact that Cat’s experience spans academia, innovation, private practice and public service law. The expansiveness of her work means she can see synergies where others don’t and add value across many areas.

You will want to listen to this episode if you are interested in knowing about human centred design, essential factors for positive change, the importance of mindsets, and some of the unexpected benefits of legal innovation.

This interview will appeal to a broad range of listeners and especially be of interest to you if you are a legal educator or law student, legal designer, chief innovation officer or tasked with bringing different programs or mindsets to your organisation.

Links:

POLI Institute Vanderbilt Law School Legal Problem Solving California Task force on access to justice Brene Brown "The Call to Courage" Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In this episode no. 10, I interview lawyer and entrepreneur Suzanna Kalendzhian.

Suzanna is Co-founder and CEO of Legal Advice Middle East, the AI-powered legal services marketplace which operates in 13 countries across the region and helps people to access justice by allowing them to find, communicate and transact with lawyers online.

In this episode Suzanna shares her personal journey as a female legal entrepreneur working in the middle east, why she believes in the vision of Legal Advice Middle East and how she maintains that belief during challenging times.

From this discussion you’ll gain an understanding of key factors for change management and how to gain momentum in your business or practice, options for what to do when you are faced with practising in an area you don’t specialise in, the best combination of skills for a legal tech start up and how to maintain a positive mindset.

You will want to listen to this episode if you are interested in entrepreneurship in a legal context and the role of regulation regarding legal tech initiatives, and making legal assistance more accessible.

Links:

Legal Advice Middle East JD Horizons HiiL Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In this episode no. 9 I interview Professor of Law Lois R Lupica who is currently visiting Melbourne Law School as a fulbright senior scholar.

As lawyers we sometimes struggle to understand the complexity of legal information. This is magnified for those without a legal education especially if they are experiencing stress in their lives. While Lois’ research is all about making legal self-help materials easier to understand, this episode will be of interest if you’ve ever had to transform any kind of complex information into plain language and especially if it was important that people should take action based on that information.

We discussed how to know if a product or service you’ve developed is effective. After all, just because someone uses it doesn’t mean it is useful. Lois shares her view about the real issue underlying the access to justice crisis.

This episode will appeal to those of us who are required to communicate challenging concepts and anyone who would like to understand how to measure the effectiveness of the communication to know if it is improving outcomes.

I found my conversation with Lois exciting and refreshing and when you listen I’m sure you’ll understand why.

Links:

Self-help, Reimagined, 92 IND. L.J. NO. 1 (2016) (with Greiner & Jimenez)

The Apps for Justice Project: Employing Design Thinking to Narrow the Access to Justice Gap, 44 FORDHAM URB. L.J. 1363 (2017) (with Friedman & Franklin)

Fulbright Scholarships

Lois' encaustic works

University of Queensland Student Clinic

Access to Justice Lab Harvard Law School

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In this episode no 8 I speak with Indian based lawyer Kanan Dhru.

Kanan is a legal innovator with over 10 years of experience in the areas of law, policy-making and justice innovations. She is a strong believer in the benefits of simplifying legal information and in 2014, won the “Innovating Justice Award” at the International Court of Justice in the Hague for her groundbreaking work as founder of Lawtoons, LawForMe and the Research Foundation for Governance in India.

In a country that is one of the major players in the tech world, more people have access to technology than justice and this influences how Kanan informs people about the law. She questions “When the world around us is increasingly moving online, why should the law be an exception? In a world where people use graphics and visuals as a language, why should the law stay bound to dusty law books?”

You will be surprised by Kanan's thoughts on who is most likely to disrupt the profession. She shares how the definition of community has changed with the rise of global communication, her inspiration for starting LawToons and LawForMe, how she collaborates with people from other disciplines and what it’s like to be a female legalpreneur in India.

You will enjoy this episode if you are interested in finding effective ways to communicate complex information of any kind.

Links:

LawToons and the book.

LawForMe

Research Foundation for Governance

Humlab and Agami prize

Legal Design Lab

Hague Institue for Innovation in Law ("HiiL")

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In this episode no. 7, I speak with Chrissie Lightfoot, a London based lawyer, creator of Robot Lawyer Lisa and CEO of Entrepreneur Lawyer, a global consulting company. Chrissie is an international speaker and author and last year was named one of theAmerican Bar Association’s Law Technology Resource Center’s Women of Legal Tech.

The theme for this episode is “robot lawyers and automating legal expertise” with a tagline “it’s all about the customer” as this is a big driver for Chrissie.

In the conversation we cut through the hype about robot lawyers to describe what they really are and what they really do. We also talked about regulation of lawyers and law tech products and people’s trust and uptake of technology.

Chrissie shares the experiences that led her to this point and by the end of the episode you will have heard how AI can be incorporated into legaltech and law tech products, understand Chrissie’s purpose and just what it takes to be an entrepreneur working at the cutting edge of legal innovation for the everyday consumer of legal services.

Links:

Robot Lawyer Lisa

Entrepreneur Lawyer

FLIP Conference NSW Law Society

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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In this episode I speak with Katie Richards, lawyer, founder and CEO of online law firm Virtual Legal.

Katie and her team are achieving their ambitious vision to deliver a sophisticated public self service legal system. Katie shares how she went from corporate lawyer to running an online law firm; practical and regulatory challenges she’s faced, how she came back from an incident that nearly destroyed her company - and her tip for action towards the end of the interview is gold.

You will hear about her commitment to corporate social responsibility and what a fire extinguisher has to do with her business model. We also talked about pie…

If you run a business you’ll empathise with much of what Katie shares. You will especially appreciate this interview if you are trying to incorporate more tech into your practice or interact with clients in more user friendly ways.

Links:

Virtual Legal

Law on Earth

Disc Personality Profiling

LexisNexis Roadshow

KPI Program

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp – andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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Today we hear from lawyer Melissa Moss, an access to justice strategist based in Florida.

With her extensive experience in legal aid organisations, Melissa has strong views on the best uses of technology, explains what “community lawyering” is in simple terms, and on a more personal note shares how she keeps up with all the latest information and how to incorporate what she learns into the projects she’s working on.

The theme for this episode is taking time to understand the problem and learning by doing and collaborating, and it will appeal to you if you are a strategic thinker, systems designer or interested in technology and human centred design as it applies to legal aid, grassroots or community lawyering.

Melissa’s thoughtful and considered approach is exceptional in this era of a bias towards action and the rush to release the next big thing.

If you are new to the podcast find out more about me and why I started this podcast in the trailer. Thanks for tuning in!

Links

Florida Justice Technology Centre

The Florida Bar Foundation “Escambia Project”

Florida Pro Bono Matters

Task Force on Access through Innovation of Legal Services (California)

Self-represented Litigation Network

Upsolve

Rebecca Sandefur

Australian Digital Inclusion Index

Andrea Perry-Petersen LinkedIn - Twitter @winkiepp and andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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Andrea talks with Luke Geary, founding partner of the world’s first social enterprise law firm, Salvos Legal.

Luke is a creative and strategic thinker but also someone who makes things happen. We covered so many topics including how he came up with the idea of a social enterprise model for a law firm, the challenges of running a business, his work to end modern slavery, investing in local communities, what he considers to be legal innovation and how technology can minimise legal disputes, and towards the end we discuss how a fortune cookie shaped his career!

Did you know there are over 15 000 people in modern slavery in Australia today? We recorded this interview in December 2018 a couple of days after Human Rights Day which coincidentally was when the Modern Slavery Act was passed into law and which we talk about in this episode.

The theme for this episode is innovation to address significant social wrong through business.

This episode will be of significant interest to you if you are struggling with sustainable funding for your organisation, want to know more about the impact of the Modern Slavery Act on your business, or wonder how you can do social good while making money at the same time!

Salvos Legal

Salvos Humanitarian

BCorp

Qld Law Society Access to Justice Committee

The Justice Project

Mills Oakley

End Slavery Solutions

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn, Twitter @winkiepp

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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Andrea speaks with Shannon Salter, chair of one of the world’s first online dispute resolution tribunals!

Shannon was very open about the challenges of establishing the Civil Resolution Tribunal, made surprising observations about how the service is being used by Canadians and the benefits of resolving disputes online.

Her comments about how online dispute resolution is strengthening communities is fascinating. Also listen in to find out what a wall has to do with the success of the tribunal (you can probably guess it’s nothing like the wall that’s been in the news lately!).

The theme for this episode is modelling a successful legal innovation project and it will be of interest to you if you have ever led a new project, work in the public sector or see the potential for online justice.

Tune in to Reimagining Justice to become part of a global community of changemakers in the law.

Links

Civil Resolution Tribunal ("CRT")

CRT satisfaction statistics

Sir Zelman Cowen Centre

Sir Zelman Cowen Centre ODR Symposium

Katarina Palmgren ODR report

ODR in Singapore

Hague Institute for Innovation in Law ("HiiL")

HiiL Innovating Justice Forum

Andrea Perry-Petersen – LinkedIn, Twitter @winkiepp, andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook – Reimagining Justice group

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Andrea talks with Mark A Cohen, a global thought leader with decades of deep and varied experience in the legal industry.

Mark is the CEO of Legal Mosaic a legal business consultancy; Distinguished Fellow at Northwestern University Law School; regular contributor to Forbes where he has a column on the global legal marketplace; and sought-after international speaker. Mark was recently appointed by the Singapore Academy of Law to serve as its inaugural LIFTED “Catalyst-in-Residence” and he has won numerous awards as a legal innovator.

Mark was an early adopter of legal tech as well as fixed-price billing, flex-time, and an agile workforce and it is this and many other topics that we discuss in this episode.

It is a very lively and candid discussion and while all his views are proffered with empathy and deep insight Mark offers critiques about professional regulation, lawyers and not-for-profit organisations.

Mark questions the status quo, reveals his views on what professional regulation should really achieve, and hints at how lawyers and technologists work best together.

Whether you are a lawyer, entrepreneur, academic, student or simply someone interested in new perspectives on old problems, you’ll enjoy Mark A Cohen.

Links:

Legal Mosaic

The College of Law

Rue Cler

andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Email - andrea@andreaperrypetersen.com.au

LinkedIn - Andrea Perry-Petersen

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook - Reimagining Justice (Closed group)

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Andrea starts close to home in this first episode, in speaking with Mollie O’Connor, an Aboriginal law student whose family is from Minjerribah (also known as Stradbroke Island) near Brisbane in Queensland, Australia.

As coordinator of its first access to justice hackathon Mollie is doing ground-breaking work as a founding member of The Legal Forecast, a not-for-profit organisation which aims to advance the legal profession through innovation and technology. She is a purpose driven individual, a humble and quiet achiever working on big things!

In this episode Mollie reveals why a group of law students set up a not for profit organisation, what drives her career choices and the factors that will make the most difference for those innovating in law.

Mollie may just be the cover girl for this podcast as she embodies its themes of innovation in law and a commitment to social justice. But in all seriousness, Mollie – and people like her - will be the guardians and leaders of the profession in the future.

The theme of this episode would have to be the importance and effectiveness of awareness raising, information sharing, and education and Mollie is committed to doing that for the issues close to her heart, namely Indigenous Rights, innovation and access to justice.

It was a delight talking with Mollie, please enjoy the conversation.

Links:

LawRight

UQ Pro Bono Centre

Legal Innovation in Legal Education

The Legal Forecast

Aurora Internship

Future Law

Stradbroke Island

andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Email - andrea@andreaperrypetersen.com.au

LinkedIn - Andrea Perry-Petersen

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook - Reimagining Justice (Closed group)

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In this episode Andrea Perry-Petersen, Australian based lawyer, social justice advocate and legal innovator, introduces her new global podcast shining a light on issues at the intersection of law, social justice and innovation. Andrea shares what you can expect to learn, who she will interview, the frequency and duration of each episode and just why she started this podcast.

Whether you are a legal business owner or legalpreneur wanting to expand your market, run a purpose driven business or improve your service delivery model; a legal professional or law student curious about a career in social justice or legal tech (or both!); interested in systems design or proven ways to make positive social change - or simply looking to be inspired, then this is the podcast for you!

Tune in to Reimagining Justice to become part of a global community of changemakers in the law.

Links:

andreaperrypetersen.com.au

Email - andrea@andreaperrypetersen.com.au

LinkedIn - Andrea Perry-Petersen

Twitter - @ReimaginingJ

Facebook - Reimagining Justice (Closed group)

The Justice Project - Law Council of Australia

Access to Justice - Productivity Commission

Legal Needs in Australia - Law and Justice Foundation of NSW

"How is a LegalTech, an award and access to justice related?"

"Could a designer's mindset bridge the justice gap?" - Lawyers Weekly

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