YourForest: Recent Episodes
Matthew Kristoff
This podcast exists to challenge our ideas of sustainability. Why do we do the things that we do? And how can we make sure that what we are doing is right? This show is an exercise in developing new perspective and context around land management in order to help us make the best decisions possible.
This YourForest Podcast episode, featuring experts Marissa Christansen and Chris Anthony, argues for a fundamental shift in how we handle wildfires. They advocate for "intentional fire" – using practices like prescribed burns and Indigenous cultural burning. This approach helps keep landscapes healthy, reduces the risk of massive wildfires, and even revitalizes cultural practices.
The conversation highlights the need to empower local communities in fire management, evolve the role of firefighters beyond just suppression, and overcome public fear and outdated regulations that hinder the adoption of these beneficial fire practices.
🌟 Key Points 🌟
👉 Intentional Fire is Essential
👉 Decentralized Decision-Making Builds Resilience
👉 Firefighting Culture Must Evolve
👉 Policy Change is Crucial but Slow
👉 Public Perception is a Major Barrier
👉 Insurance and Incentive Structures Must Adapt
💬 Quotes 💬
💬 [00:00:05] Chris Anthony: "The scale of change is occurring faster than our ability to adapt to it, but also to mitigate it. And I think that's where the complexity comes in. So if we continue to use the same tools, the same mindsets, the historical approach or the cultural approach that we've had, that's not going to change what the future is going to look like."
💬 [00:36:47] Marissa Christansen: "It's a good kind of catchall phrase for a bunch of different helpful, beneficial fire types that can be a part of our toolbox. One of those practices is cultural burning by our indigenous tribes, both here in the United States and in Canada. A lot of these tribes have practices that they've been doing for thousands of years, long before we got here, as a way of both demonstrating their cultural norms as well as managing the landscape that they have been stewards of for all this time."
💬 [01:42:08] Matthew Kristoff: “If we can start to understand and realize a cultural reciprocity with fire, all of a sudden, this is just something we talk about and think about and converse about. If everyone's doing it, you're going to see solutions so much faster, that's just that cultural shift is going to be so powerful.”
⌛ Takeaways with Complete Timestamps ⌛
[00:00:00] – Introduction to the Episode & Guests
[00:03:15] – Defining Intentional Fire
[00:11:23] – The Role of the Climate and Wildfire Institute (CWI)
[00:17:58] – Why Traditional Firefighting Approaches Fall Short
[00:26:27] – Rethinking the Firefighting Workforce[00:36:41] – What is Intentional Fire? Why It Matters
[00:43:12] – Public Perception & Cultural Change
[00:59:14] – Indigenous Fire Stewardship & Policy Progress
[01:03:42] – Regulatory & Institutional Barriers
[01:17:05] – CWI Convenings & Cross-Sector Dialogues
[01:23:02] – Insurance Reform & Risk-Based Mitigation
[01:30:59] – Rebuilding After Fire: Missed Opportunities
[01:35:50] – Unlocking Local Response Capacity
[01:42:44] – Vision for the Future
🔗 Important Links:
👉 Intentional Fire Website: https://intentionalfire.org/
👉 The Stewardship Project: https://climateandwildfire.org/cwi-projects/the-stewardship-project/
👉 CWI Signature Convenings: https://climateandwildfire.org/our-work/cwi-events/
👉 CWI Blog: https://climateandwildfire.org/blog/
Follow the Guests on:
👉 Marissa Christansen’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marissa-christiansen-4784566/
👉 Chris Anthony’s LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cjanthony/
Sponsors
👉 West Fraser: https://www.westfraser.com/
👉 GreenLink Forestry Inc.: https://greenlinkforestry.com/
Follow YourForest Podcast on:
👉 Website: https://yourforestpodcast.com/
👉 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@yourforestpodcast7324
👉 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/yourforestpodcast
👉 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/yourforestpodcast/
👉 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/yourforestpodcast/
👉 Twitter: https://x.com/yourforestpdcst/
👉 Email: yourforestpodcast@gmail.com
If you liked this podcast, please rate and review it on your favorite platform! 🌟
In this episode of the YourForest Podcast, Matthew Kristof explores the essential role of dialogue in effective landscape and wildfire management. Joined by Robin Freeman, Project Manager for the Wildfire Networks at the SFU Centre for Dialogue, and James Whitehead, Special Projects Manager for the Mitigating Wildfires Project, they dive into how open, empathetic communication can help diverse stakeholders collaborate toward better environmental management solutions.
The discussion covers the intricacies of dialogue as a tool for conflict resolution, the challenges of managing wildfire risks, and the importance of understanding differing perspectives in environmental decision-making. The conversation highlights the need for vulnerability and honesty, both from facilitators and participants, in creating an environment where meaningful dialogue and change can happen.
🌟 Key Points 🌟
👉 Dialogue Goes Beyond Conversation - Dialogue is more than just talking—it’s a structured process that requires active listening, empathy, and a willingness to engage with different perspectives. By fostering this, stakeholders can move toward sustainable solutions in landscape management.
👉 Conflict is Not to be Avoided - It’s an Opportunity - James and Robin highlight that conflict, when handled respectfully, is an opportunity for innovation. By embracing disagreement and seeing it as a chance to understand differing perspectives, stakeholders can arrive at better solutions.
👉 The Role of Facilitators in Navigating Complex Conversations - Facilitators are crucial in managing conversations, especially when disagreements arise. Their job is not to lead the conversation but to create a safe, respectful space where all participants can share their views and build mutual understanding.
👉 Empathy is Key to Understanding and Collaboration - Empathy is the cornerstone of effective dialogue. Understanding the personal and emotional context behind others’ views helps participants move from a place of disagreement to one of cooperation.
👉 Create Structured Opportunities for Participation - Robin and James emphasize the importance of using techniques that allow everyone to have a voice, especially in large group settings. By creating structured opportunities for sharing and collaborating, facilitators can ensure that even the quietest participants are heard.
💬 Quotes 💬
💬 [00:00:05 - 00:00:24]Robin Freeman: "The system as a whole will be healthier if we hear from more parts of the system. It's this idea that nobody has a monopoly on the truth, and so we actually need as many people as possible sharing their point of view so that we can make good decisions, because otherwise we don't see the whole picture, and no one will ever see the whole picture.”
💬 [00:59:21 - 01:00:29] James Whitehead: "The role of a facilitator is really to hold space for a conversation and to hold space for the conversation that needs to happen... The goal of the effective facilitator is to really be the one to enable that conflict to happen in a productive and respectful and safe way.
💬 [00:36:12-00:36:39] Matthew Kristof: “Conflict is just two, or more, very passionate people are arguing passionately about something they care about. And you're like, Why is conflict bad? Why do we see conflict as a bad thing? As long as we can be mature about it, then all of a sudden, conflict becomes an opportunity.”
⌛ Takeaways with Complete Timestamps ⌛
[00:00:00] - Introduction to Dialogue and Its Role
[00:06:39] - Understanding the Role of Conflict in Dialogue
[00:17:11] - The Importance of dialogues
[00:22:12] - Disagreeing Collaboratively
[00:38:36] - Building Safe Spaces for Difficult Conversations
[00:47:30] - Case Study: Wildfire Management and Dialogue
[00:52:04] - Overcoming the Fear of Conflict
[01:05:42] - Creating Impactful Conversations in Landscape Management.
[01:08:50] - Understanding Shared Values in Landscape Management
[01:15:27] - Final Thoughts on Facilitating Change through Dialogue
Important Links:
👉 I and Thou: Martin Buber's Philosophy of Dialogue - https://youtu.be/AT6wEZfotVI?feature=shared
👉 TED talk from Myrna Lewis - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FsFz1H447kk&t=49s
👉 Links for Conflict is Opportunity - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AT6wEZfotVI
👉 Complex Systems Frameworks Collection - https://www.sfu.ca/complex-systems-frameworks/frameworks/complex-vs-complicated/cynefin.html
👉 Polarity Management - A Summery Introduction - https://rise-leaders.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Polarity-Management-Summary-Introduction.pdf
👉 Practical Lessons From A Mediator’s Notebook - https://www.theconflictjourney.com/2017/09/29/adam-kahane-collaborate-with-enemy/
Follow the Guests on:
👉 James Whitehead LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamesmwhitehead/
👉 Robin Freeman LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/robin-freeman-ed-d-73b4a8212/
Sponsors
👉 West Fraser: https://www.westfraser.com
👉 GreenLink Forestry Inc.: https://greenlinkforestry.com/
Follow YourForest Podcast on:
👉 Website: https://yourforestpodcast.com
👉 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@yourforestpodcast7324
👉 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/yourforestpodcast
👉 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/yourforestpodcast/
👉 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/yourforestpodcast/
👉 Twitter: https://x.com/yourforestpdcst/
👉 Email: yourforestpodcast@gmail.com
If you liked this podcast, please rate and review it on your favorite platform! 🌟
Welcome to YourForest Podcast, where Matthew Kristoff and James Whitehead navigate the crucial role of dialogue in managing environmental challenges, particularly wildfire mitigation. This episode not only highlights the importance of understanding and engaging in effective dialogue but also emphasizes the need for diverse stakeholders to come together and tackle environmental issues collaboratively.
Explore how structured conversations can lead to actionable insights and stronger, more inclusive solutions for landscape management. Don’t miss the insights shared by James on how dialogue can transform the approach to environmental management and foster a culture of collaboration and mutual understanding.
🌟 Key Takeaways 🌟
- The Essence of Dialogue in Environmental Management: James Whitehead emphasizes the importance of dialogue not just as conversation but as a structured, inclusive process that engages diverse opinions to foster understanding and collaboration among stakeholders in environmental sectors, particularly in wildfire management.
- Barriers to Effective Dialogue: The episode delves into both psychological and logistical challenges that hinder effective dialogue, highlighting how biases and institutional structures can obstruct collaborative problem-solving in environmental contexts.
- Collaborative Disagreement: A significant focus is on the concept of "disagreeing collaboratively," where stakeholders learn to engage with conflicting viewpoints constructively, allowing for the development of innovative and comprehensive solutions to complex environmental challenges.
- Impact of Wildfire Management Discussions: Discussion around wildfire management in BC illustrates the complex interplay of various stakeholder goals and the realities of implementing practical wildfire mitigation strategies on the ground.
💬 Quotes 💬
- [00:23:34-00:23:47] James Whitehead: “There's something incredibly powerful when you see that switch flick in a room and all of a sudden people get excited, and that I think when you see people get excited and engaged, I think it means that something switched with them.”
- [01:00:13-01:00:29] Matthew Kristoff: “ Step out of their own shoes, step into somebody else's, and really consider what it would be like to be in their situation and how important that would be and how that would affect their life. And then, step back into your own shoes and go. Think how I can become more comprehensive. How can I become more empathetic?”
⌛ Takeaways with Complete Timestamps ⌛
[00:01:18] - Introduction to Dialogue and its Role
[00:06:26] - James Whitehead’s Background
[00:17:05] - Understanding Dialogue
[00:21:54] - Challenges of Effective Dialogue
[00:38:52] - Case Studies and Examples
[00:46:43] - Disagreeing Collaboratively
[01:11:21] - Closing Thoughts and Future Directions
Follow the Guests on:LinkedIn:
👉 https://www.linkedin.com/in/jamesmwhitehead/
Sponsors
👉 West Fraser: https://www.westfraser.co
👉 GreenLink Forestry Inc.:https://greenlinkforestry.com/
Follow YourForest Podcast on:
👉 Website: https://yourforestpodcast.com/
👉 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@yourforestpodcast7324
👉 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/yourforestpodcast
👉 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/yourforestpodcast/
👉 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/yourforestpodcast/
👉 Twitter: https://x.com/yourforestpdcst/
👉 Email: yourforestpodcast@gmail.com
If you liked this podcast, please rate and review it on your favorite platform! 🌟
Welcome to YourForest Podcast, where we explore the interconnections between environmental science, sustainability, and the human connection to nature. In this captivating episode, hosted by Matthew Kristoff, we engage in a deep dive with Mike Leahy and Rebecca Quiñonez-Piñón about the enchanting world of the Monarch butterfly and the concerted efforts required for their conservation.
The episode features Mike Leahy, the Senior Director for Wildlife Hunting and Fishing Policy at the National Wildlife Federation, and Rebecca Quiñonez-Piñón who serves as the Senior Scientist at the National Wildlife Federation. Both guests share their deep insights on the challenges facing Monarch butterflies and outline practical steps for their conservation.
🌟 Key Takeaways 🌟
- Extensive Role of the National Wildlife Federation: Explore how the Federation, under Mike Leahy’s leadership, addresses crucial wildlife conservation issues, including those affecting the Monarch butterfly.
- Monarch Butterfly’s Charisma and Cultural Significance: Rebecca highlights the deep cultural and emotional connections that people, particularly in Mexico, share with the Monarch butterfly, which is intertwined with their life cycle and migratory patterns.
- Challenges in Monarch Conservation: The discussion sheds light on the various threats that monarch populations face, such as habitat destruction, pesticide use, and climate change, emphasizing the urgent need for strategic conservation efforts.
- Impact of Community and Educational Involvement: Learn about the significant role that community actions, like planting native milkweeds and educational programs in schools, play in conserving the Monarch butterfly.
- Vision for Ultimate Conservation Strategies: Mike and Rebecca share their ideal approaches to monarch conservation, imagining the impact of unlimited resources on enhancing habitat and public engagement.
💬 Quotes 💬
- Mike Leahy: “We’re the nation's largest conservation organization, and we work on pretty much anything and everything related to wildlife and species conservation.”
- Rebecca Quiñonez-Piñón: “For some reason, the monarch has that amazing ability to embed that memory during your childhood... in Mexico, the monarch is part of the celebration of the Day of the Dead.”
⌛ Takeaways with Complete Timestamps ⌛
[00:01:08] - Introduction of the episode
[00:04:09] - Mike Leahy’s introduction and background
[00:07:35] - Rebecca Quiñonez-Piñón’s journey to monarch conservation
[00:10:41] - The Charismatic nature of the Monarch butterfly
[00:27:36] - The Importance of habitat and native milkweed
[00:41:53] - Public engagement in conservation
[01:03:20] - Ultimate conservation strategies
[01:06:13] - Concluding segment
Follow the Guests on:
Mike Leahy’s LinkedIn:
👉 https://www.linkedin.com/in/mike-leahy-89a4a211/
Rebecca Quiñonez-Piñón’s LinkedIn:
👉 https://www.linkedin.com/in/rebeca-qui%C3%B1onez-pi%C3%B1%C3%B3n-2b676417/
Monarch Recovery Repository Page:
👉 https://monarchs.nwf.org/
Plant Native Site, NWF:
👉 https://www.nwf.org/Native-Plant-Habitats/Plant-Native
Sponsors
👉 West Fraser: https://www.westfraser.co
👉 GreenLink Forestry Inc.:https://greenlinkforestry.com/
Follow YourForest Podcast on:
👉 Website: https://yourforestpodcast.com/
👉 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@yourforestpodcast7324
👉 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/yourforestpodcast
👉 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/yourforestpodcast/
👉 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/yourforestpodcast/
👉 Twitter: https://x.com/yourforestpdcst/
👉 Email: yourforestpodcast@gmail.com
If you liked this podcast, please rate and review it on your favorite platform! 🌟
Welcome to YourForest Podcast, where we explore the vital connections between environmental science, sustainability, and the essential role of forests. This enlightening episode of the YourForest Podcast, hosted by Matthew Kristoff features an engaging discussion with Dr. Amy Cardinal Christianson who serves as the Senior Fire Advisor at the Indigenous Leadership Initiative, where she spearheads efforts to support Indigenous fire stewardship.
The episode explores how indigenous practices and guardianship programs contribute to the conservation and sustainable management of natural resources. Dr. Christianson, a wildfire researcher focusing on Indigenous fire stewardship, delves into her new role at the Indigenous Leadership Initiative.
🌟 Key Takeaways 🌟
- Guardian Movements and IPCA: Dr. Christianson illustrates the importance of these initiatives in providing indigenous communities with control over their lands and preserving their cultural heritage.
- Role of Indigenous Leadership in Conservation: Learn how the ILI supports indigenous governance and sustainable land management, enhancing community resilience and environmental protection.
- Supporting Indigenous Sovereignty: The discussion emphasizes the significance of indigenous-led conservation in fostering long-term sustainability within Indigenous communities.
- Challenges and Achievements in Indigenous Leadership: Insights into the bureaucratic hurdles and the progress made in recognizing and supporting Indigenous rights and governance.
- Community and Cultural Impact: This episode highlights the role of community involvement in successful conservation efforts and the benefits of culturally relevant environmental practices.
💬 Quotes 💬
- "Indigenous people have had a disconnection from that culture, right? And so one thing that guardian movements or Indigenous protected conserved areas also does is allows for opportunities for knowledge sharing." - Amy Cardinal Christianson
- "I can't even imagine because of the red tape and the political niceties and you're like, no, at the end of the day, this is a problem that needs to be fixed. But you can't beat around the bush.” - Matthew Kristoff
⌛ Takeaways with Complete Timestamps ⌛
[00:00:05] - Teaser- How guardian programs help Indigenous communities.
[00:01:06] - Introduction of the guest
[00:03:58] - Career Shifts and the Impact of Indigenous Frameworks
[00:05:54] - Impact of Guardian Programs on Local Communities.
[00:10:55] - Challenges and Future Directions in Indigenous Conservation.
[00:19:04] - Communication and Advocacy in Indigenous Environmental Efforts.
[00:37:00] - Complicity Over Allyship in Supporting Indigenous Causes.
[00:53:48] - Bridging Professional and Cultural Work.
Follow the guest Amy Cardinal-Christianson on:
👉 Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/amy-cardinal-christianson-8b168243/
👉 Twitter: https://x.com/ChristiansonAmy
Sponsors
👉 West Fraser: https://www.westfraser.com/
👉 GreenLink Forestry Inc.: https://greenlinkforestry.com/
Follow YourForest Podcast on:
👉 Website: https://yourforestpodcast.com/
👉 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@yourforestpodcast7324
👉 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/yourforestpodcast
👉 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/yourforestpodcast/
👉 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/yourforestpodcast/
👉 Twitter: https://x.com/yourforestpdcst/
👉 Email: yourforestpodcast@gmail.com
If you liked this podcast, please rate and review it on your favorite platform! 🌟
Welcome to YourForest Podcast, where we explore the vital connections between environmental science, sustainability, and the essential role of forests. In today’s episode join host Matthew Kristoff on YourForest Podcast for an inspiring conversation with Lauren Oakes, scientist, storyteller, and author of Tree Keepers: The Race for a Forested Future. This episode delves into the global reforestation movement, addressing the challenges and opportunities of using forests as a solution to climate change. Lauren unpacks the intricate debates surrounding tree planting versus forest restoration, highlighting the importance of thoughtful stewardship, community involvement, and long-term sustainability.
Drawing from her research and personal experiences, Lauren explores how forests can be integrated into human and ecological systems, biodiversity benefits, and improved community well-being. She emphasizes the role of local support and economic incentives in sustaining reforestation projects. Whether discussing urban tree equity or global forest management, Lauren offers actionable insights to help listeners become active participants in creating a more resilient, forested future.
🌟 Key Takeaways 🌟
– Planting Trees vs. Planting Forests: Lauren explains the difference between individual tree planting and creating resilient, biodiverse forests that sustain ecosystems and provide long-term benefits for carbon sequestration, biodiversity, and human well-being.
– Economic Viability and Local Involvement: For reforestation projects to succeed, they must align with the economic and social needs of local communities. Collaborative approaches and economic incentives are key to sustaining these initiatives.
– Reforestation Challenges and Opportunities: From funding gaps to ensuring tree survival, Lauren highlights the challenges of reforestation projects while showcasing innovative solutions like agroforestry and community-driven restoration.
– Action at All Levels: Whether through global commitments like the Trillion Trees initiative or individual efforts in urban and rural areas, everyone has a role to play in becoming a tree keeper.
💬 Quotes 💬
"We are all tree keepers in some way. We can also think about the nature in our backyards and in our communities, the green spaces and forests and trees, and how to be better stewards of them in our communities" - Lauren Oakes
"Our brains, our society has forced us to really like we value everything in dollars. So if we can value nature in dollars, all of a sudden it computes. And then when you can put a dollar value to it, you're like, oh, I see and start to think about it a little bit more" - Matthew Kristoff
⌛ Take away with complete timestamps ⌛
[00:04:30] - Introduction to Lauren Oakes
[00:07:34] - Why the World is Turning to Trees
[00:11:08] - Planting Trees vs. Restoring Forests
[00:20:08] - The Global Forest Landscape: Then and Now
[00:30:30] - Reforestation in the Right Places
[00:33:36] - Indigenous Knowledge and Forest Stewardship
[00:45:18] - Sustainable Relationships with Forests
[00:51:18] - Maximizing Forest Value Beyond Carbon
[01:08:40] - Bridging the Funding Gap for Reforestation
[01:16:21] - The Role of Local Communities in Reforestation
[01:19:53] - Final Reflections: Can We Do It?
Resources
👉 Lauren Oakes Website - https://leoakes.com/
👉 Lauren Oakes LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/lauren-oakes-0b78155/
👉 Lauren Oakes Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/OakesLE
👉 Lauren Oakes Twitter - https://x.com/OakesLE
Sponsors
👉 West Fraser: https://www.westfraser.com/
👉 GreenLink Forestry Inc: https://greenlinkforestry.com/
Follow YourForest Podcast on:
👉 Website: https://yourforestpodcast.com/
👉 YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@yourforestpodcast7324
👉 Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/yourforestpodcast
👉 Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/yourforestpodcast/
👉 LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/yourforestpodcast/
👉 Twitter: https://x.com/yourforestpdcst/
👉 Email: yourforestpodcast@gmail.com
If you liked this podcast, please rate and review it on your favorite platform! 🌟
Welcome to the YourForest Podcast, where host Matthew Kristoff explores the vital connections between environmental science, sustainability, and the role of forests.
In this episode, Matthew is joined by Dr. Jonathan Moore, head of the Salmon Watersheds Lab at Simon Fraser University, and his graduate student, Christian Carson, to discuss the intricate relationship between forestry, fish, and watersheds.
They delve into the impacts of forest management on salmon habitats, biodiversity, and ecosystem health, highlighting the balance required to preserve natural resources and cultural traditions.
🌟 Key Takeaways 🌟
-- Salmon as a Keystone Species: Dr. Jonathan Moore highlights salmon's vital ecological, cultural, and economic roles in North America, sustaining ecosystems, wildlife, and communities.
-- Forestry Impacts on Watersheds: Christian Carson explains how forestry practices, like clear-cutting and riparian buffer removal, disrupt water temperature, sediment flow, and fish habitats.
-- Cumulative Effects: Both guests stress understanding cumulative impacts—forestry, fires, landslides—on watersheds to improve management practices.
-- Policy and Collaboration: Interdisciplinary solutions involving scientists, policymakers, and communities are essential to balance forestry, fish conservation, and human values.
💬 Quotes 💬
"Flies are buzzing on the carcasses. There are eagles, chittering. You might see bears, you might see mink. These systems are alive when the salmon are there, and when the salmon aren't, they're quiet." - Dr. Jonathan Moore
“How fast the water is flowing, how much of it's flowing and, where it's flowing, and that that kind of determines both the physical physiological and the distribution of fish.” - Christian Carson
Take away with Complete Timestamps:
[00:04:28] The Cultural and Ecological Importance of Salmon
[00:10:25] Salmon as Ecosystem Builders
[00:16:29] Collaborative Approach to Salmon Ecosystem Research
[00:18:28] The Evolution of Fish Research in Forestry
[00:20:08] Impact of Splash Dams on Fish Habitats
[00:23:11] Importance of Water Quality and Flow for Fish
[01:02:51] Making the Business Case for Salmon Conservation
[01:06:30] Exploring Cumulative Impacts of Forestry Practices
[01:08:42] The Complex Impact of Removing Riparian Vegetation
[01:16:44] A Holistic Approach to Forest and Fish Management
[01:20:23] Emphasizing Interdisciplinary Collaboration for Ecosystem Management
Resources
◾ Dr. Jonathan Moore's LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathan-moore-8a01ba90/
◾ Salmon Watersheds Lab Website - https://www.jonwmoore.org/
◾ Salmon Watersheds Lab Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/salmonwatershedsscience/
◾ Christian Carson's LinkedIn- https://www.linkedin.com/in/christian-c-29220ab8/
◾ Christian Carson's Website - https://clayoquot.org/
Related Articles, Studies, and Reports:
◾ Forestry impacts on stream flows and temperatures: A quantitative synthesis of paired catchment studies across the Pacific salmon range - https://besjournals.onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/2688-8319.12328
◾ Reflections on Forest Management: Can Fish and Fiber Coexist? - https://fisheries.org/bookstore/all-titles/afs-symposia/reflections-on-forest-management-can-fish-and-fiber-coexist/
◾ Fish and Forestry Interaction Studies throughout BC - https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/environment/plants-animals-ecosystems/fish/aquatic-habitat-management/fish-forestry#Studies
Sponsors
◾ West Fraser: https://www.westfraser.com/
◾ GreenLink Forestry Inc.: https://greenlinkforestry.com/
Follow YourForest Podcast on:
◾ Website: https://yourforestpodcast.com/
◾ YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@yourforestpodcast7324
◾ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/yourforestpodcast
◾ Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/yourforestpodcast/
◾ LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/yourforestpodcast/
◾ Twitter: https://x.com/yourforestpdcst/
◾ Email: yourforestpodcast@gmail.com
If you liked this podcast, please rate and review it on your favorite platform! 🌟
Welcome to YourForest Podcast, where we dive into conversations on environmental science, sustainability, and the intrinsic values of forests.
In this episode, host Matthew Kristoff speaks with Mark Anielski, a forest economist and well-being expert, to explore the economic principles of nature and how forest ecosystems offer a sustainable model for an economy in harmony with natural values.
Together, they delve into the challenges and benefits of valuing forests beyond traditional timber revenue, considering biodiversity, water resources, and the “wealth” that forests provide.
Key Takeaways
Beyond Profit: Economic models that focus solely on GDP growth ignore essential ecosystem services. Mark highlights why a balanced approach that includes natural services can create a more resilient economy.
Reframing Wealth: Wealth originally meant “well-being,” a concept that aligns with sustainable practices. Mark suggests considering how we define wealth to integrate environmental values.
Strategic Investments in Nature: Investing in ecosystem restoration, such as wetlands and pollinator services, yields significant long-term returns, reducing healthcare costs and supporting biodiversity.
Quotes:
“Forest ecosystems are the model for the economy because they're always moving towards a homeostasis homeostatic condition. There's always perturbations. There's fire, right? There's and there's are human impacts.” - Mark Anielski
“we're not counting is the degradation of the watershed and the services that we just take for granted and we don't monetize them, we don't even account for them.” - Mark Anielski
“It's a lie that money is scarce. It's not scarce. We we have been educated to believe it. Scarce well. And we spend our lives anxious about how are we going to pay for whatever the mortgage.” - Mark Anielski
Take away with complete timestamps:
[00:05:45] Background of Mark and his interest in Forest management
[00:09:14] Redefining Economy and Wealth through Nature's Lens
[00:16:34] Critiquing GDP and Embracing Nature’s Accounting Principles
[00:21:35] Challenging the GDP and Rethinking Economic Models
[00:31:40] The Value of Ecological Services vs. Economic Depreciation in Forest Management
[00:39:38] The Overlooked Value of Indigenous Knowledge in Healthcare and Environmental Restoration
[00:58:27] Understanding Reinsurance and its Role in Risk Management
[01:03:03] The Shared Responsibility of Sustainable Forestry
Sponsors
West Fraser: https://www.westfraser.com/
GreenLink Forestry Inc.: http://greenlinkforestry.com/
Resources
Mark Anielski’s Linkedin: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-anielski-8b581325/
Mark’s Website: https://anielski.com/
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In this episode of YourForest Podcast, host Matthew Kristoff engages with Dr. Cristina Eisenberg to explore the powerful concept of "Two-Eyed Seeing." This approach braids Indigenous knowledge with Western science to create more resilient, climate-adapted forests.
Dr. Eisenberg shares her experiences and insights from the report "Braiding Indigenous and Western Knowledge for Climate Adapted Forests," which she co-authored. The discussion delves into climate change, forest stewardship, and how Indigenous ecological practices can help create the future of sustainable forest stewardship.
Here are the 5 Key Recommendations of the “Braiding Sweetgrass Report”:
- Adopt proactive stewardship.
- Recognize and respect Tribal Sovereignty and Indigenous Knowledge.
- Provide the flexibility to steward dynamic landscapes and navigate uncertainties under rapidly changing conditions.
- Ground agency planning, and land and resource stewardship policies in ethics of reciprocity and responsibility to many future human generations.
- Catalyze innovative approaches to forest stewardship.
Dr. Cristina Eisenberg is an Associate Dean at Oregon State University, specializing in tribal initiatives and climate resilience. As a community ecologist with Māori and Western Apache heritage, she combines Indigenous and Western knowledge to address environmental challenges.
Dr. Eisenberg and Matthew dive into the concept of "Two-Eyed Seeing" and how it can reshape forest stewardship. They discuss the importance of cultural burning, proactive management, and Indigenous sovereignty, all of which are central to creating climate-resilient landscapes. The episode highlights the benefits of using both Indigenous ecological practices and modern environmental strategies to steward the land for future generations.
Key Takeaways:
- Two-Eyed Seeing: This concept involves viewing the world through both Western science and Indigenous knowledge, leading to more holistic and effective forest management strategies.
- Proactive Stewardship: Dr. Eisenberg emphasizes the need for proactive, place-based stewardship that prioritizes forest resilience, especially in the face of climate change.
- Reciprocity with Nature: Indigenous ecological practices are based on reciprocity, where humans take from nature mindfully and give back to maintain balance.
- Recognizing and Respecting Sovereignty: It is crucial to respect tribal sovereignty and involve Indigenous communities in decision-making processes for forest management.
- Healing from Past Harms: Acknowledging historical trauma caused by colonization and implementing Indigenous-led approaches to restore ecosystems.
Resources:
Dr. Cristina Eisenberg’s LinkedIn Profile: https://www.linkedin.com/in/eisenberg-cristina-phd-7b153b26/
BraidingSweetgrassReport: https://depts.washington.edu/flame/mature_forests/pdfs/BraidingSweetgrassReport.pdf
The Wise Path Forward: https://adaptiveforeststewardship.org/who-we-are/
Sponsors
West Fraser - https://www.westfraser.com/
GreenLink Forestry Inc. - http://greenlinkforestry.com/
Quotes:
[00:19:25] Dr. Cristina Eisenberg: "Two-eyed seeing is when one eye views the world through Indigenous knowledge and the other through Western science. Together, they form binocular vision."
[00:12:28] Dr. Cristina Eisenberg: "We did damage to these forests by eliminating cultural burning, not understanding the long-term impacts."
[00:59:41] Dr. Cristina Eisenberg: "Reciprocity means we take what we need, but we give back more to the forest. It’s about caring for nature the way you care for family."
Timestamps and Illustrations:
(00:00:15) The Importance of Fire in Indigenous Stewardship
(00:18:57) Reciprocity: The Foundation of Indigenous Practices
(00:26:53) Two-Eyed Seeing: A Holistic Approach to Knowledge
(00:30:46) The Role of Elders and Tribal Knowledge in Stewardship
(00:36:28) Proactive Stewardship vs. Reactive Management
(00:54:27) Acknowledging Indigenous Sovereignty in Land Management
(01:00:18) Historical Trauma and Forest Stewardship
(01:15:47) Cultural Burning and Ecosystem Health
(01:22:31) The Future of Forest Stewardship: Learning by Doing
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In this episode of the Your Forest podcast, host Matthew Kristoff speaks with Dr. Jason Brown, an environmental ethicist, and lecturer in religious studies, about "contemplative forestry". They explore how blending mindfulness with ecological understanding can foster a deeper connection to forests. Jason shares his journey into this unique field, emphasizing the spiritual and cultural dimensions of forestry.
Dr. Jason Brown is a lecturer at Simon Fraser University, specializing in the intersection of religion, ethics, and ecology. With a background in anthropology, forestry, and ecological theology, Jason's work focuses on integrating spiritual practices into environmental management, promoting a holistic approach to forestry.
Matthew and Jason discuss the concept of "contemplative forestry," which combines mindfulness with ecological practices. They explore the balance between work and contemplation, the importance of recognizing forests' intrinsic value, and how indigenous practices can inform a more reciprocal relationship with nature. The episode also touches on broader themes like climate change and the role of spirituality in environmental stewardship.
Key Takeaways:
Work and Contemplation Balance: Contemplative forestry integrates practical work with mindful experiences, fostering a deeper connection to nature.
Contemplative Forestry: This practice views forests as living ecosystems and encourages a reciprocal relationship between humans and nature.
Relational Forest Management: Inspired by indigenous practices, this approach values both the ecological and cultural roles of forests.
Mindfulness in Nature: Engaging all senses in the forest promotes mindfulness and a deeper understanding of the environment.
Sacredness of Nature: Recognizing the spiritual value of forests can lead to more ethical and sustainable management practices.
Resources
Dr. Jason Brown's Website: https://holyscapes.org/
Dr. Jason Brown's Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jason.m.brown.566/
Dr. Jason Brown's Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/holyscapes/
Sponsors
West Fraser: https://www.westfraser.com/
GreenLink Forestry Inc.: http://greenlinkforestry.com/
Quotes:
01:24:13-01:23:40- “Contemplative forestry has this sort of potential that no matter what you're doing in the forest, just do that thing right. Be present.”
00:19:45- 00:19:57- "Spiritual ecology or a contemplative ecology feels motivated to protect the environment because of its deep intrinsic value and our connection to that."
Timestamps:
Balance Between Work and Presence (00:00:05 - 00:00:37)
Connecting Spirituality and Environmental Ethics (00:20:33 - 00:21:05)
The Role of Indigenous Approaches in Forestry (00:23:20 - 00:23:56)
Contemplative Forestry as a Practice (00:30:43 - 00:31:12)
Embracing Mystical Traditions in Understanding Forests (00:40:29 - 00:40:46)
Reciprocity in Human-Forest Relationships (00:50:14 - 00:50:52)
Capitalism and Contemplative Practices (00:53:13 - 00:53:39)
The Need for a Revolution of Heart and Mind (00:56:29 - 00:56:55)
Reinterpreting the Concept of Value in Forestry (00:59:33 - 01:02:25)
Moving Away from Broad Acre Plantation Forestry (01:12:53- 01:13:13)
The Role of People in Ecosystems (01:15:52 - 01:16:49)
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In this episode of the YourForest podcast, host Matthew Kristoff sits down with Caroline Whitehouse, a forest health specialist with the Government of Alberta. They dive into the world of forest pests, focusing on the ecological importance of insects and how they contribute to forest resilience. Caroline shares her unique journey into entomology, emphasizing the need to appreciate insects not just as pests but as vital components of our ecosystems.
Caroline Whitehouse is a forest health specialist with the Government of Alberta, where she monitors and manages forest health, particularly in relation to insect populations. She is also completing her Ph.D., focusing on the role of insects in forest ecosystems. Caroline’s work highlights the importance of understanding and managing forest pests within the broader context of ecological health and resilience.
Matthew and Caroline explore the complex world of forest pests, discussing how insects like the mountain pine beetle play crucial roles in forest ecosystems. They talk about the challenges of managing these pests, the impact of climate change, and the importance of creating resilient landscapes. Caroline explains how disturbances, whether caused by insects or fire, are necessary for maintaining healthy forests. She also touches on the need for better monitoring and research to understand the full scope of insect biodiversity and conservation.
Key Takeaways:
Resilient Landscapes: Building resilient landscapes that can recover from disturbances is essential. This means promoting diversity in tree species, ages, and forest structures.
Insect Appreciation: Insects are fundamental to ecosystem processes. Rather than viewing them solely as pests, it’s important to understand their roles in nutrient cycling, pollination, and as food sources for other wildlife.
Monitoring and Research: There is a critical need for expanded monitoring and research on insect populations, particularly in the face of climate change. Understanding insect biodiversity is crucial for effective forest management.
Invasive Species: Urban forests are particularly vulnerable to invasive pests like the emerald ash borer. The spread of such species poses significant challenges for forest health and requires proactive management strategies.
To learn more about Caroline Whitehouse and her work, stay tuned for future episodes and follow the links provided below. Additionally, if you’re inspired by this episode, consider supporting your local ecosystems by planting a diverse range of native species in your yard and avoiding the use of harmful pesticides.
Follow Guest:
Caroline Whitehouse
Xerces Society
Alberta insect ID
Entomological Society of Alberta
Alberta Native Bee Council
Alberta Lepidopterist Guild
Sponsors
West Fraser
GreenLink Forestry Inc.
Quotes
46:25 - 46:53: “Insects are only pests as defined by us. Sure. They're just out there doing their thing right and living their lives and their populations fluctuate. And it's when it's something that becomes intolerable esthetically unpleasing to us or, you know, is potentially going to damage forest resources on a large scale, then that's a pest to us. It's kind of different in forestry, because in agriculture it's easy to define these. So we have a we have a process that's called integrated pest management.”
48:19 - 48:29: “When you remove a disturbance, that ecosystem becomes increasingly susceptible to exaggerated disturbances.”
Takeaways
Importance of Landscape Resilience (00:00:45)
Caroline emphasized that creating resilient landscapes is crucial to ensuring that ecosystems can undergo disturbances and recover their functions. She believes the focus should be on maintaining ecosystem processes rather than the physical appearance of forests.
Caroline’s Journey into Entomology (00:05:11)Caroline shared her journey of becoming fascinated with insects, particularly during her university years when she took an entomology course. This experience opened her eyes to the diversity and complexity of insects, leading her to pursue a career in forest entomology.
The Role of Insects in Ecosystems (00:09:39)Caroline discussed the fundamental role insects play in every ecosystem, from decomposition to pollination. She stressed that without insects, ecosystems would collapse, affecting all forms of life, including humans.
Pollinators: Beyond Just Bees (00:12:41)Caroline discussed the role of various pollinators, not just honeybees, in ecosystems. She pointed out that native bees and other insects are critical to pollination and that honeybees are often misunderstood as the primary or only pollinators.
The Misunderstanding of Honeybees (00:14:09)Caroline highlighted the common misconception that honeybees are native and the only important pollinators. She explained that honeybees are actually domesticated livestock and that their proliferation can negatively impact native bee species.
The Threats Facing Native Pollinators (00:18:17)Caroline elaborated on the challenges facing native pollinators, particularly the impact of habitat loss, disease, and competition from non-native species like honeybees. She emphasized the need for conservation efforts focused on native species.
Citizen Science and Insect Monitoring (00:30:59)Caroline spoke about the potential for citizen science in insect monitoring, acknowledging the challenges in identifying insects but also the value in public involvement and awareness in conservation efforts.
Disturbance: A Key to Boreal Forest Health (00:48:00)
Caroline highlighted that natural disturbances, including those caused by insects, are crucial for the boreal forest's renewal and succession. Removing these disturbances makes the ecosystem more vulnerable to larger, more damaging events.
Insect Conservation as an Ecological Imperative (01:18:26)Caroline argued that insect conservation is vital for maintaining ecological balance. She mentioned that insects have an intrinsic value and are crucial for the survival of many other species, making their conservation an ecological imperative.
If you liked this podcast, please check out our YouTube channel, also please rate and review it, share it on Instagram and Twitter tag a friend, and send your feedback and comments to yourforestpodcast@gmail.com.
Do you want to support healthy ecosystems, and create a legacy that can last? Me too. Start with your lawn, then your community, then see how you feel. Basil Camu is an expert in local rewilding and today he is here to share his passion for natural ecosystems and how you can create a bounding oasis of local biodiversity literally in your back yard! Think native! Flowers, grasses, forbs, shrubs, trees, everything helps!
I often get so wound up in forests and how we manage them that I forget that my yard, and community, can be a place for nature as well. I am now officially growing trees in my back yard with the intention of rewilding my property, and hopefully sharing that passion with others.
Resources
Leaf & Limb
From Wasteland to Wonder
Sponsors
West Fraser
GreenLink Forestry Inc.
Quotes
12.35 - 12.43: “I think humans are a part of this planet, we are all interconnected. There has been a huge disconnect between humans and the rest of life.”
Takeaways
“I love trees” (09.13)
Basil’s love for ecosystems is reflected in his book, From Wasteland to Wonder. He believes that humans are a part of the planet and should not be separated from nature.
Soil = life + sand + silt + clay (20.45)
Basil explains how plants have been converting the sun’s energy into usable formats for millions of years, causing life to move from the oceans onto land and support all life above ground and under the soil.
A tree is a 3D printer of life (23.10)
Basil thinks of soil as a sponge, which holds water, thereby preventing flooding and enabling photosynthesis. He thinks of trees as pumps that feed the terrestrial planet and sequester carbon.
Is the grass greener? (37.40)
Basil points out that grass is the #1 crop grown in the USA but 10% or fewer Americans spend time in their yard. He highlights the need to work with natural systems instead of against them.
A global water crisis (40.10)
Basil calculates that by enabling photosynthesis and protecting the soil, you will do 75% of the things you can to address biodiversity.
“The best place to start is planting trees” (42.34)
Basil suggests people plant native trees. He suggests using chicken wire when planting native trees so they can grow protected.
Life for life’s sake (49.17)
A native plant can support most life, participate in the local ecosystem and sequester carbon from the atmosphere.
Nothing leaves the yard (59.19)
Soil can be fed with any organic matter - fallen leaves, woodchips, etc. Basil recommends using compost instead of fertilizers since fertilizers have a massive carbon footprint.
Self-sustaining meadows (1.09.24)
Basil speaks about using glyphosate to remove vegetation and create a native meadow for ecological restoration. He recommends sowing a seed blend or flower seeds during winter.
Grow your own meadow (1.14.56)
Basil recommends planting butterfly milkweeds to help monarch butterflies on their flight path. He also suggests planting a few saplings to create a pocket forest and putting up educational signs.
A forest in your pocket (1.21.06)
Basil suggests using oak and hickory trees which have higher ecological value, feed more species of life and have understory species and shrub layers.
Project Pando (1.26.47)
Project Pando, the non-profit arm of Leaf & Limb, engages a community to collect seeds from native trees and shrubs and get them processed and planted through volunteers. Working with trees helps strengthen the bond and connection for people to see themselves as a part
If you are looking for inspiration, look no further than the story Percy Guichon was willing to share with us. Through hardship and discrimination, pain and suffering, a few First Nations were able to create thriving communities out of hard work and ingenuity. Percy came on the show to share his personal story, but also that of his Nation and the success they have had building forestry enterprises that look out for land and give back to community. Reconciliation takes lots of forms, Percy’s story is about collaboration and thinking outside the box.
Resources
Percy Guichon
The residential school Percy attended as a child was purchased by Williams Lake First Nations to help honour their ancestors:
Article: St. Joseph's Mission residential school site should be 'a place of healing'
Central Chilcotlin Rehabilitation Ltd.
Sponsors
West Fraser
GreenLink Forestry Inc.
Quotes
20.46 - 20.54: “I think… the start of… reconciliation is just by acknowledging those… past harms and what it did to our people.”
Takeaways
Traditional territory (4.44)
Percy is a member and Councillor of Tŝideldel First Nation in the interior of British Columbia. He is grateful to be one of the few of his generation to speak his native language.
Knowledge and experience (8.40)
The conditions of First Nations members during his childhood were some of the reasons that inspired Percy to run for Chief many years later, where he served for 6 years.
Indigenous consultation (12.21)
Percy’s earliest memories are of living on the land with the other animals that occupy it, including its waters. That laid the seed of his interest in forestry through high school.
Truth and reconciliation (19.49)
Reconciliation efforts are taking place across Canada to acknowledge the harms of residential schools, cultural genocide and economic marginalization. Separating children from families caused intergenerational trauma and alcoholism.
Communities building their destiny (22.41)
Percy believes it is important for institutions and systems to work with Indigenous people to remove barriers to meaningful long-term employment and empower communities.
Reconciliation and forestry (26.17)
First Nations communities have formed forestry companies and created development corporations. They are also being consulted by the Ministry of Forestry.
The trauma of residential schools (30.55)
Percy went to residential school at age 7 with his siblings and cousins. The impacts on his community, his culture, his friends, his family, and his sense of self were devastating.
Leave a lasting legacy (47.29)
Central Chilcotin Rehabilitation (CCR) focuses on cleaning up the mountain pine beetle-infested areas. First Nations communities need to be involved in the forest industry for sustainability.
From companies to communities (55.28)
Percy rejoices in the transfer of forest licenses from companies to communities. This helps distribute the responsibilities between conservation officers and community members.
Honouring agreements (1.04.45)
Percy shares the stories of how different First Nations have built agreements with the government, similar to how they created treaties.
Strengthening the culture (1.10.53)
Percy speaks about the supreme court decision demarcated title land area, how the BC government exonerated chiefs and the tripartite framework agreement.
Healthy and happy communities (1.19.25)
Percy believes that communities must have forest licenses so they can benefit from them. Elders still carry out traditional practices like berry picking and collecting medicinal plants.
Building relationships (1.27.30)
Percy looks forward to building relationships with other First Nations neighbours, sharing best practices and exchanging expertise and resources to create future-forward sustainable projects.
Allyship in action (1.34.14)
It is important to be respectful of the communities, address land rights, create revenue-sharing agreements and help the communities grow.
Resources
Max Nova
Sponsors
West Fraser
GreenLink Forestry Inc.
Quotes
06.17 - 06.22: “Forests are valuable for more than just what you can cut down and roll out of the forest.”
Takeaways
“Private landowners are where the climate economy and land management happen” (05.31)
Max is the co-founder and COO of NCX, which began 14 years ago with his undergrad friend to help landowners understand the value of forests and measure and pay for the values they provide.
Discover the true value of your land (09.35)
Max shares that landowners can participate in many public and private programs to help cover the cost of planting trees, protect wildlife habitat and maybe even get paid for carbon credits. NCX helps landowners access nature-positive assets and develop new revenue streams for their property.
Money is not everything (13.20)
While financial returns from the land are important to maintain the land, most landowners rank ROI lower than being out in nature, leaving a legacy for their children, and connecting with wildlife.
“Nature never stands still” (20.30)
Max elaborates on the different programs available for different categories of land use across different geographies, with varied terms of payment. He emphasizes that landowners should understand the timings, risks and rewards of each, given the ever-evolving nature of the forest.
The conundrum of net zero emissions (24.56)
Max explains that many large corporations are working towards net zero emissions by reducing emissions or buying carbon offsets by a certain date in the future. However, the change made by these declarations is debatable as many corporations are coming up on their goal date, causing many to not commit to net zero goals.
Balance trade offs against your values and objectives (31.54)
Max explains the concepts of baseline and additionality in carbon credits, where one needs to be mindful of how purchasing carbon credits can reduce carbon in the atmosphere. Natural regeneration is a more accepted and supported option.
Everyone wants a healthier planet (46.14)
NCX’s vision is a world where landowners own land that is fully and fairly valued for all nature-positive benefits it is providing. He believes that everyone wants less carbon in the atmosphere, more wildlife, and healthier soil.
“Perfection is impossible” (49.17)
Max shares the different kinds of programs that support natural regeneration, where the best fit for landowners will depend on their preferences. TMax believes that having a humble learning mindset instead of a critical approach will help navigate complex forest dynamics.
“Keep your head on a swivel” (1.08.08)
NCX works on laying the foundations of research and education to prepare for a future when fiscal responsibilities of different forest values have been fairly distributed by the powers that be. If you are a landowner, visit the NCX website to get a free initial assessment of your options.
Wildfire has always been here, and humans have always had a relationship with it. These days, we have recognized that our relationship to fire has been less than ideal. Wildfire smoke has consumed our summers, wildfire threat has persisted in our minds, and there seems to be no end in sight. So, how do we begin to change our relationship to fire? How do we go from surviving it, to thriving with it? The knowledge exists, the solutions are there, how do we make it happen? Transformational change is hard.
Resources
Lori Daniels
Sponsors
West Fraser
GreenLink Forestry Inc.
Quotes
23.23 - 23.34: “Trees are really amazing; trees will colonize till they establish and grow and persist in any space where the seedling can arrive and be given an opportunity to survive.”
Takeaways
The more awareness, the better (4.53)
Lori highlights the importance of fire safety awareness and training, since “almost half of the fires in Canada are started by people”.
The Centre for Wildfire Coexistence (10.34)
The Centre for Wildfire Coexistence at the Faculty of Forestry at the University of British Columbia looks at the recovery of ecosystems and communities in BC.
What tree rings tell us (12.54)
Lori’s research takes place at the Tree Ring Lab at UBC, processing samples from the forest to understand how historical fire regimes functioned across a range of ecosystems.
Historical fires (15.45)
Tree rings provide some quantitative metrics that demonstrate Indigenous knowledge of the fire intervals and their impacts on the ecosystems where the fires burned.
Viewing fire as bad (20.03)
Lori points out that European settlers made it illegal for Indigenous people to practice cultural burning, creating “an abrupt change in the way that fire functioned in the ecosystem”.
The fire deficit (21.49)
Lori shares that cultural burning maintains heterogeneity and variability of forests and diversity of ecosystems essential to maintaining biodiversity in BC.
The fire suppression paradox (26.21)
Reintroducing fire as proactive mitigation is important in forests where the fire regime has been disrupted and fuel has accumulated, putting communities and other values in danger.
Wildfire behaviour (27.58)
Lori lists three critical factors that control wildfire behaviour and effects - the interactions between weather and topography, the intensity of the fires, and the fuels.
A challenging situation (38.13)
Concerns about smoke stopped prescribed burns that provided the benefits of surface fires, leading to the accumulation of fuel and high-intensity fires.
Local capacity building (54.47)
Lori’s advice is to empower BC’s 154 municipalities, and 204 Indigenous communities through funding and education to execute their wildfire resilience plans.
Mitigation is like insurance (1.03.04)
Climate change dictates more such fires in the future, predicting rising costs of firefighting and medicines for the vulnerable, and damage to homes, farmlands, water supply and habitats.
Cognitive dissonance (1.19.34)
Lori hopes that the provincial legislature will understand the importance of contributing funds in order to make changes in policies and practices that will govern forest management.
Be fire smart (1.26.21)
Investing in fire-proofing one’s home and understanding how fuel treatments and prescribed burning can help are steps to take toward changing fire behaviour to reduce wildfire risk.
Win-win situation (1.33.26)
Some First Nations use the biomass they remove from the forests around their community to create heat energy that supports their medical center and offices.
Nature knows best…right? So, our forest management strategies should try to emulate nature? That’s what we used to think. Unfortunately, our ideas on how to emulate natural disturbance rarely result in something that acts like a natural disturbance. Bottom line, we are not fire, and we want different things from fire, so we need to not act like fire. We have had some good ideas, and our minds were in the right place, but it is now time to shake things up. Let’s put that big head of ours to use and come up with something that would make mother nature proud.
Resources
Ellen Macdonald
Sponsors
West Fraser
GreenLink Forestry Inc.
Quotes
43.23 - 43.32: “The more complex and variable and flexible you make regulations, the more difficult it is to go and see if people are following them or not.”
Takeaways
Sustainable forest management (10.46)
Ellen concurs with the widely held definition of sustainable forest management as “managing our forests in a way that sustains the full diversity of values they have”. This differs from the old definition of sustained yield forestry which focused on sustaining timber production.
Emulation of natural disturbances (15.31)
Ellen talks about the origin of sustainable forest management in the 1980s-90s motivated by a desire to sustain a full range of values and inspired by natural disturbance patterns. Ellen believes the emulation of natural disturbances is one tool to achieve ecosystem management goals.
Nature knows best (19.23)
Ellen points out that using natural forest ecology to inform forest management goes back to the 1920s-30s when nature was used as an inspiration to understand how forests functioned and regenerated after disturbances depending on the species there to inform silviculture practices.
Identifying the real objective (28.12)
The important differentiator of natural disturbance, whether fire, insects or major disturbances is that “they don’t kill everything”. They create opportunities for trees to regenerate and create structural diversity in the forest. The focus should be on forest management plans purposefully emulating the effects of natural disturbance instead of the patterns of natural disturbance.
Challenges in sustainable forest management (43.00)
Ellen finds that the complexity of implementing regulations related to sustainable forest management is a challenge. There are also worries that some may take advantage of the flexibilities in the regulation or make mistakes in interpreting how natural disturbance effects should be emulated since it is not a well-tested hypothesis. Additionally, forests take a long time to grow, so it will be a slow process.
The old and the new (51.17)
Ellen uses the example of deadwood to explain how the understanding of different components of a forest evolves over time. Different technologies today can help us monitor, document and inventory forest biodiversity which allows for more opportunities to manage forests better.
Always learning (1.07.08)
Ellen advises learning from Indigenous peoples’ history with landscape management and the tools they use. She hopes “forest management can be viewed like science - as a never-ending set of questions rather than a series of disconnected truths”.
If you liked this podcast, please rate and review it, share it on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook, tag a friend, and send your feedback and comments to yourforestpodcast@gmail.com.
Image curtesy of National Geographic and Eye of Science through Sue Grayston
In forest management, we spend a lot of time on the things we can see; charismatic megafauna, trees, pests and plants. But what about the things we can’t see? What if I told you there was an entirely unexplored ecosystem below our feet? One that has more biodiversity than we can imagine. This community is responsible for half of the carbon sequestration of the forest, and the maintenance of ecosystem function for above ground species. This life beneath our feet is as much responsible for the forests we love as the biggest trees and the cutest caribou. Let’s show it some love.
Resources
Continuous root forestry—Living roots sustain the belowground ecosystem and soil carbon in managed forests
Sponsors
West Fraser
GreenLink Forestry Inc.
Takeaways
New frontiers (10.17)
Cindy highlights that they found archaea populations in forest soil, a different type of organism which can also carry out nitrification of the soil.
Unseen but important (14.41)
Cindy shares that it is difficult to advocate for the importance and inclusion in forest management of organisms that can’t be seen.
A whole world in a spoon of soil (19.52)
Next-generation sequencing techniques help us understand the workings of organisms in the soil.
Microbial processes (24.51)
Sue describes the labelling techniques through which they label trees with heavy isotopes of carbon sources similar to the carbon from trees, allowing them to identify groups of organisms that are important in using that carbon.
Saving the world (30.20)
Sue spotlights the fact that many organisms spend all or some of their lives in the soil creating a link between organisms above and below. Forest soil microbes remove methane and nitrous oxide from the atmosphere and clean water waste.
Knowledge is power (34.41)
Cindy believes that understanding the workings of soil organisms is better than using chemicals for biological controls. Microbes process organic matter and help lock it into the soil.
How forest harvest affects microbial communities (48.40)
Sue found that dispersed retention in clear cuts has a better function in retaining microbial diversity and its functioning across the cut block. Cindy adds that mycorrhizal fungi communities depend on the dynamic flux created by trees.
Below-ground diversity leads to a resilient ecosystem (56.32)
Every plant species has its temperature range of comfort which is being affected due to climate change. Recent wildfires have also been devastating for the soil biome.
Inoculant seed zones (1.06.59)
Sue and Cindy talk about how unaffected forests can act as seed zones after a wildfire. Nitrogen fixers prevent the soil from declining if there is a wildfire again.
What’s below is as important as what’s above ground (1.22.33)
Cindy offers a different way of thinking about forest management - that sites can not only be saved but also improved using the understanding of below-ground ecosystems. She laments the lack of care with which soil is currently viewed.
Stand and landscape level diversity (1.36.21)
When there is a diversity of tree and plant species, there will also be below-ground diversity. Built into that maintenance of stand productivity is using improved genetic stocks that are programmed to grow faster as well as silviculture techniques.
Ongoing monitoring (1.41.45)
Cindy talks about the need to monitor soil biodiversity and measure key processes and the amount of soil organic matter, especially mineral-associated organic matter. She reinforces the need to develop resilient forests, and the first step would be to update forestry policies.
What stands in the way of the future of sustainable forest management? There are many answers to this question, but the deepest answer may be colonialism. The very structure of our governing bodies and institutions have made it very difficult to try new things. It is possible that our colonial system of organization and decision making now stands in the way of progress. Organizations have to fight against the system to make new decisions, and move in new directions. The first thing we have to do is recognize the problem.
Resources
Ira Sutherland
Dynamics in the landscape ecology of institutions
Sponsors
West Fraser
GreenLink Forestry Inc.
Quotes
1.27.55 - 1.28.02: “Can we really transform these systems into something generally sustainable if we cannot transform ourselves first?”
Takeaways
Sustainability (10.00)
Ira defines sustainability as a dynamic process of constant learning. Institutions are meant to be constantly monitoring changes in the environment and adapting and evolving in response.
Institutions (18.51)
Institutional processes are the activities conducted on the land base which provide feedback for monitoring to the institutions.
Power (21.55)
The arrival of the provincial colonial government became the main decision-making authority for all lands in BC. From the 1970s to the 1990s, environmental NGOs began having some say with international boycotts against BC timber products. Since the 1970s, First Nations ancestral rights have also been recognized through case law in BC.
Wise use (24.10)
In BC, many areas were protected as forests and wasteful early timber harvesting practices were modified to prevent wildfires and ensure more resources for future generations.
Sustained yield (28.17)
Sustained yield forest management in 1948 formalized the goals BC had for its forests, and it sought to have a continuous or even perpetually increasing supply of timber.
Intention vs. outcome (30.15)
Ira highlights that early institutional functions in BC did not consider Indigenous land rights and the needs of the Indigenous people and it led to the 1990s pine needle epidemic and fires since.
The forest practices code (34.25)
The forest practices code was introduced in 1995. 11 different values have to be managed alongside timber, such as biodiversity.
Timber bias (36.56)
Ira laments that even though new policies have been created, they are layered on top of the old ones, but it doesn’t remove the emphasis on sustained yield in forest management in BC.
Change (44.50)
BC has restricted converting forest to regulated stands to 15% of the land, elevated First Nations decision-makers in the area and created new types of conservation zones.
Social values (59.40)
Ira’s research paper measures biophysical structures within the forest and uses that as a proxy to estimate the capacity of a given forest and provide multiple ecosystem services.
Multi-dimensional approach (1.03.15)
Ira opines that better data on multiple ecosystem services and a structured decision-making process need to inform forest management practices.
Polycentric forest governance (1.11.11)
Managing the forest locally is the top recommendation in Ira’s paper to effectively monitor changes, understand local values and make management decisions that reflect those.
Forest management recommendations (1.14.30)
The second recommendation in Ira’s paper is to maintain and restore complex landscapes, with heterogeneity at the stand and landscape scale for ecologically resilient landscapes. The third recommendation is to help institutions adapt through reflective processes.
As modern culture expands, wilderness dwindles in its wake. It has become more challenging to create empathy for land through real experience. Luckily, there are people like Jim Lane. Jim teaches an Ecology and Conservation course for High School students. His approach gets students out in the bush to experience nature first hand. They learn about scientific observation, interconnectedness, ecology, history and colonialism all through observing nature. All this without leaving school property.
Resources
Jim Lane
Aldo Leopold’s Land Ethic
Sponsors
West Fraser
GreenLink Forestry Inc.
Quotes
15.29 - 15.37: “A land ethic changes the role of a human from a conqueror to just a plain ordinary citizen of the biotic community.”
Takeaways
Authentic learning (04.54)
Jim always wanted to be a high school science teacher, influenced by his teachers. As a child, he loved being outside and has turned his passion for the outdoors into a profession.
Field ecology and conservation (12.40)
Jim’s students are tasked with designing a way to measure the forest. The empathy for the forest is developed as a product of that process. He teaches Aldo Leopold’s Land Ethic to help students see themselves as part of the natural world. A ‘sit spot’ exercise involves authentic journaling of natural observations.
Sit Spot (20.19)
In interviewing former students, Jim learned that the ‘sit spot’ exercises had helped students overcome stress and gave them a space to process their feelings and find themselves, alongside discovering the dynamics of the natural world.
Building empathy (30.14)
Jim reflects that hope and trust are important for students to feel engaged in a course such as this. He introduces them to different birds and their lifestyles, makes them taste the bark of aspen, or challenges them to write down observations of the forest from memory. “Those experiences where you are pushed beyond that comfort zone is where you start to build… empathy”, he notes.
“Knowing that there’re things you don’t know” (43.35)
Jim observes that land and most of the natural world don’t move in a timeframe that humans understand. He shows his students how the knowledge of just one tree can “not only unlock the history of the land that it grew on but also that history of the people on the land”.
Respecting the forest (1.05.27)
Jim believes that seeing the forest over a long period helps develop respect and appreciation for it, knowing it takes very long to replant it.
Forests and fires (1.08.15)
Jim’s advice to other teachers who are looking to encourage authentic learning is to allow students to have authentic experiences with the forest. He laments how fires have made it dangerous and difficult to be outdoors. He narrates how a researcher interviewed Indigenous Elders on managing a forest using good fire, but that advice has not been followed. The destruction from wildfires has also damaged the cultural activities of the Indigenous.
If you liked this podcast, please rate and review it, share it on Instagram, Twitter and Facebook, tag a friend, and send your feedback and comments to yourforestpodcast@gmail.com.
The Boreal Forest is the worlds LARGEST forested biome! Understanding the inner workings of such a callosal giant can be overwhelming. Now add climate change to the mix. What does the future hold? Luckily, an enormous team of researchers have banded together to create this incredible book that details what we need to do to keep the Boreal Forest healthy, and thriving, for the foreseeable future. Did I mention this incredible resource is completely FREE? See show notes for that link.
Resources
Boreal Forests in the Face of Climate Change: Sustainable Management (Volume 74)
Sponsors
West Fraser
GreenLink Forestry Inc.
Quotes
07.46 - 07.54: “When I look at the current situation, I feel like the major challenge of humanity right now is climate change.”
Takeaways
For the love of boreal forests (04.39)
Sylvie is an Emeritus Research Scientist with the Canadian Forest Service at Natural Resources Canada, Miguel is the Professor of Forest Ecology and Guillaume is the Professor of Aquatic Ecology at the University of Quebec. The book they created is written to draw attention to the boreal forest, which represents 25% of the forest cover in the world.
Inclusive writing (14.40)
Sylvie mentions that between 60 and 170 authors from different fields - forestry, ecology and environmental science - came together to create this book. Miguel was surprised by the support received for the book.
Healthy and resilient forests under climate change (21.33)
Miguel highlights that it is essential to maintain a balance between natural and managed landscapes in order to maintain a healthy ecosystem. Sylvie points out that taking a deterministic approach to forestry does not work in the face of a constantly changing natural world.
Ecosystem management on the disturbance regime (28.42)
Sylvie explains that fire creates diversity at the landscape level which harvesting doesn’t allow. By understanding the natural disturbance regime of the forest, they can better manage the managed forest. The current disturbances are related to temperature fluctuations from climate change, which impact the health and resilience of forests.
Climate change is here (36.19)
Miguel urges listeners to note how frequent climate change impacts have become, and provides examples from different regions that have had hurricanes and storms. Guillaume notes that lakes in some northern countries are becoming browner.
Managing forests for the future (50.55)
Sylvie shares some tactical decisions made for management planning, including diversifying seed sources and strategic planning of annual allowable count. Miguel adds that they want to preserve forests applying ecosystem management and diversity plantation to increase productivity and tap into their carbon sequestration potential.
Human - forest interactions (59.10)
Miguel says human-forest interactions will be the basis of forest management in the future, to achieve sustainability in the economy, ecology and society. He touches upon the spiritual aspect of Indigenous forest interaction and how Indigenous communities value preserving their ecosystems.
Love is the greatest force (1.11.51)
Miguel believes that people must be more flexible in their approaches in the light of the new information on global climate change. Their book speaks to this commonality across the globe, and speaks to cooperation amongst scientists everywhere to improve solutions.
Why is tree equity important? They are just trees, right? So what? They don’t impact health, wealth, quality of life? They just look good!
Well, in fact trees do ALL of these things. They drastically reduce deadly heatwaves, reduce breathing problems, shelter your home from the elements, reduce drainage costs, increase your mood, and save you money in all kinds of other ways. Now a new tool shows us which communities are receiving these benefits and which are not. Urban communities in particular are dangerously low on tree cover. We can help deliver basic human rights to those that need it just by planting trees.
Resources
American Forests
Sponsors
West Fraser
GreenLink Forestry Inc.
Quotes
10.45 - 10.54: “Trees are important for people and… they are [an] essential part of our climate justice conversations and our health justice conversations.”
Takeaways
Data can be democratized (03.47)
Benita explains that American Forests is focusing on ensuring tree equity in urban areas. so that all communities can benefit from greenery.
Tree equity (07.19)
Julia points out that the Tree Equity Score tool makes it visually apparent using maps that the lack of greenery in poorer communities is a national issue.
Social and climate injustices (11.50)
Neighbourhoods with the fewest residents of colour tend to have 3 times more tree canopy per person and are 3 degrees cooler. Areas with the lowest poverty rates have double the tree canopy per person and are 6 degrees cooler than areas with the highest poverty rates.
Trees are the jack of all trades (14.29)
Julia highlights that trees provide many different benefits to communities, including heat regulation, absorption of pollution and mental health.
Baseline tree cover (22.18)
Benita celebrates the 1.5 billion dollars of funding American Forests has unlocked in partnership with US Forests towards protection and maintenance of trees in urban communities to ensure tree equity.
Broadening horizons (28.29)
Benita talks about how a big part of their work is to involve local communities in the conversation on their local cultural context and needs. Planting and maintaining trees also creates employment in the communities.
A human-centered approach to filling gaps in the urban forest (32.58)
Julia explains that the Tree Equity Score is a free tool American Forests created as a prioritization system, which provides a score from 1 to 100 based on a combined measure of tree canopy and social and climate health.
Breaking down the Tree Equity Score (35.15)
Julia delineates the different parts of the Tree Equity Score - the tree canopy goal and the priority measure.
Data is powerful to help change minds (40.58)
Benita recalls that developing a rigorous tool was critical to move the cause of tree equity forward at a local governance level, just as it was to make the tool free and open.
A holistic solution (47.31)
The user guide accompanying the Tree Equity Score tool describes how to calculate the benefits of reaching different equity score targets.
Coming together for tree equity (54.30)
American Forests recently launched the Tree Equity Alliance to bring other national organizations together on the issues of urban greening and environmental justice.
A sense of urgency (1.00.14)
Benita expresses a sense of urgency to advance tree equity with local leaders and decision makers since “some communities are much more likely to be sick or die than other communities”.
How we value forests is changing, and our management strategy is often playing catch up. As a result, forest management in British Columbia is undergoing a paradigm shift. It is a values shift. A more holistic approach to managing forests that accounts for more than just the sustainability of trees. Old Growth was the lighting rod, ecosystem health is the goal. Garry Merkel came on to give us the run down how things area changing and why.
Resources
A New Future For Old Forests: https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/farming-natural-resources-and-industry/forestry/stewardship/old-growth-forests/strategic-review-20200430.pdf
Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples Act (DRIPA): https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/governments/indigenous-people/new-relationship/united-nations-declaration-on-the-rights-of-indigenous-peoples
Sponsors
West Fraser
GreenLink Forestry Inc.
Quotes
08.32 - 08.55: “The forest is not the ecosystem; the forest is the product of the ecosystem. The ecosystem is the whole environment - all the species together, the relationships between those, the different water cycles, carbon cycles, sun, etc… that all result in conditions that can foster certain kinds of forests.”
Takeaways
A change is needed (04.48)
Garry shares that people are unhappy with the way forests are managed unsustainably and with values compromised.
Trees are not commodities (08.24)
Garry explains that a forest that is burnt or blows over comes back as the same forest in an intact ecosystem.
Co Governance (11.45)
Garry and Al recommended that the BC Government build a strategy collaboratively with the Indigenous community to prioritise ecosystem health with consistent policies in a 3 zone framework.
Preserving old growth (15.39)
Garry suggests changing silviculture practices from clear cut to more natural disturbance type to maintain ecosystems and increase the targets for old growth.
A big societal shift (20.50)
Garry believes the shift to protecting old growth requires three big shifts - shifting to joint governance with Indigenous communities, shifting to inclusive, multi-sectoral regional based planning and decision making and shifting our entire mental framework from focusing on individual resources to focusing on ecosystems.
Sustainability is the journey (26.20)
Garry thinks this shift will be more sustainable even as it changes our economic relationships with the land.
“Life is what happens when you are planning what to do” (39.57)
Garry speaks about the challenges of implementing changes with COVID and the varied 200+ First Nations in BC. He is working on implementing the Forest Landscape Plan in BC.
Preserving forest values (45.15)
Garry laments that there are processes currently taking place that haven’t received consent from First Nations and that not all percentages of old growth protection have been met.
“Moving at the speed of understanding and trust” (1.00.46)
Garry observes that many industries are realizing the importance of a holistic approach to land management.
Science and wisdom (1.10.12)
Garry suggests each individual begin their own learning journey, communicate their vision with their local representatives and learn from Indigenous wisdom about land management.
The paradigm shift (1.15.47)
Garry explains, “A paradigm shift is simply a significant change in thought”, and action follows a paradigm shift.
Living in harmony with nature (1.21.48)
Garry shares how different countries have adopted different land management practices and how they are transforming their approaches.
What better way to learn about Old Growth and Big Trees then to talk to a guy who thinks about nothing else!? Greg Herringer spends his work time finding big trees, talking about big trees and creating programs to protect big trees. He also spends his free time going on expeditions to find more big trees. This guy is THE Big Tree Guy! We try to answer the question, how do we protect big trees in a world that need wood fiber? Greg sees a path forward.
Resources
Greg Herringer
Old Growth Deferrals
Special Tree Protection Regulation
Big Tree Registry
Quotes
33.20 - 33.25: “Too many people confuse hearing and listening as the same thing and they are entirely different.”
Takeaways
Personal and professional passions (04.24)
Greg is a Forest Technologist at British Columbia Timber Sales. He is passionate about preserving large tree ecosystems and was part of the 80s-90s revolution to protect old growth on Vancouver Island.
Tree tools (08.22)
Greg explains the tools used to extract a sample from the trunk of the tree and extrapolate the findings to learn more about the age of the tree based on the visible growth rings.
Planting by the rules (11.26)
Greg had a decade-long career as a tree planter during which he began developing a curiosity for big trees. He feels positive about the special tree protection regulation the government has passed along with the BC old growth program to protect large trees from being harvested.
A sustainable and holistic approach (16.15)
Based on his work with many universities, Greg believes a fundamental shift is coming in how harvesting forests is viewed by the new generation of forest professionals, including forging partnerships with First Nations.
A century is a blip for a tree, but a lifespan for humans (19.28)
Greg shares people's reactions on his tours of old-growth forests. He encourages people to slow down and “experience the old-growth forest as it should be”, including exploring forest bathing.
The human side of forestry (31.20)
Developing personal relations with others is the most important skill in forestry, according to Greg. Understanding what the public wants the forests to be will help guide forest restoration practices for the future.
“The forest isn’t static” (35.19)
Greg discusses the terms of the special tree protection regulation, sharing that the required buffer area around a tree was a compromise between the industry and the ENGOs. He lists examples of some old-growth trees that are still evolving.
Wanted dead or alive (39.35)
Greg points out that the tree protection regulation does not differentiate between live and dead trees because of the value of standing dead trees to wildlife habitat.
What nature really is (42.43)
Greg recounts his trip to Vernon Bay to discover giant trees between 800 and 2200 years old.
When we all come together (01.07.30)
BC Timber Sales has developed a voluntary program in conjunction with Western Forest Products to target the most valuable commercial species for protection.
Stand up for what you believe in (1.17.42)
By following the special tree protection regulations, Greg feels good about acting in line with his morals and ethics.
Land back (1.34.10)
A large portion of the land will be returned to the stewardship of the First Nations to manage according to their traditions and intergenerational expertise.
Who doesn’t love Big Old Trees!? “You would have to be some kind of monster!” That pretty much sums up the episode. Author Amanda Lewis shares her journey around her book Tracking Giants-Big Trees, Tiny Triumphs, and Misadventures in the Forest. Amanda brought a breath of fresh air into the way I think about big trees. Her fun nature and transparent writing style make for a great dialogue and an even better read!
Resources
Tracking Giants by Amanda Lewis
Sponsors
West Fraser
GreenLink Forestry Inc.
Quotes
48.03 - 48.07: “That’s the thing about trees - once you stop looking for them, they start to reveal themselves.”
Takeaways
When the forest calls (05.09)
Amanda went to the University of British Columbia in Vancouver but had to move to Toronto to pursue a career in publishing. She returned 8.5 years later to the forests of her childhood, burnt out from a difficult career and shaken from the big life change.
We are the champions (08.05)
Amanda‘s friend introduced her to a book called Big Lonely Doug, which spoke about a Douglas fir tree included on the BC Big Tree Registry. She decided to start a blog called Tracking Giants which would record her travels to all the champion trees.
The most difficult and the most rewarding (11.10)
The BC Big Tree Registry, created by Randy Stoltmann, is an online database of native trees where they are assigned tree scores based on their dimensions. Big tree registries originated in Maryland to catalogue what was left of the big trees after logging.
Obelisk in the desert (19.53)
Amanda points out that trees change across a landscape and a digitized registry allows for updates to reflect the changing state of trees. She muses that the reason big trees draw people in is that “they represent that deeper time and that slower way of being”.
Missing the forest for the trees (28.30)
Amanda likes to look at metrics of appreciating trees that are beyond numbers. Since Indigenous peoples knew of the trees since time immemorial, younger tree trackers are choosing not to name them.
Approaches to conservation (36.02)
Amanda highlights that Indigenous peoples refer to trees as family members. She laments that polarized perspectives on working in the forest are untrue and that they show that you can both love and harvest trees.
“To find the tree, you must become the tree” (45.38)
Amanda shares about the opportunity for anyone to be a ‘community scientist’ in what is a very democratic registry by nominating any big tree they come across.
What a tree can be (57.56)
With time, trees can become big and rare and it is a “tragedy of forestry on the coast” that many trees have been logged, leaving no chance of an old-growth forest.
An epidemic of loneliness and technology (1.07.00)
Amanda invites listeners to think about the decisions that can be made in the present to be able to look back without regret in the future.
Children of the same soil (1.14.20)
Amanda feels centered thinking of herself as part of the same world as trees with rich stories, and believes there is hope to rewrite the narratives of our relationships with them.
I never thought I would have to talk about war as a forest disturbance. I was not prepared, nor did I have the experience or knowledge to provide any relevant feedback. This discussion really opened my eyes to the complexity and devastating nature of war as a disturbance. How even when the war is over the consequences will last generations. The ecology will be forever shifted, and the dangers of unexploded ordinances will haunt the people of Ukraine for decades to come.
Resources
Brian’s Yale Talk
Quotes
51.17 - 51.29: “The river makes forests possible; the river is a great place to set up a defensive line so… forests get disproportionately affected by the war because they are near the river.”
Takeaways
War and Fire (08.13)
Brian informs that it is the Donbas region in Ukraine which is being “systematically” destroyed due to the war. However, forest fires have also caused damage in the past there, with a third of the pine forests being destroyed in 2020.
A large country with fascinating forests (12.24)
Some Ukrainian forests are free of Russian invaders but contaminated by unexploded ordinances, which complicates firefighting in the area. He believes Ukraine needs resources and support to tackle this problem.
Natural and economic trauma (21.04)
Brian describes how increased fires due to the war have transformed and fragmented Ukraine’s landscape. He narrates the history of colonization across this landscape and the impacts it had on the steppes and pine forests.
Reforesting pines and afforesting sandy steppes (27.01)
Brian narrates how pine was used to restore the landscapes under different regimes in Ukraine but that the Russian invasion is destroying the forests. He discusses the complications in fire management due to the varied thinning practices in the past.
Fire in the Forest (36.17)
Brian highlights the lack of trust towards foresters in Ukraine and Russia. Although there are long-standing regulations, the invasions have damaged the forests and made it a militarized zone.
Restoring forests (42.37)
Brian notes that even though much of the forest has burned, some has been salvaged by intuitive demining and intelligent resource management. However, commercial forest management has become extremely difficult due to shrapnel in logs.
Firefighting in war-torn landscapes (50.10)
Brian believes Ukraine would need many firefighting tanks to demine the UXO-contaminated landscape in phases.
“Triage starts with forests in communities “ (58.10)
Brian deliberates what forest restoration can look like in Ukraine.
The way ahead (1.13.37)
Brian believes that the way forward must be Ukraine-driven.
How you can help (1.23.12)
If you would like to contribute to Ukrainian foresters, you can visit Brian’s GoFundMe or reach out to him on Facebook. Brain encourages listeners to contribute to grassroots organizations in Ukraine since larger humanitarian organizations already receive significant funding.
Do we have a moral obligation to Nature? Most people extend moral standing to their family, friends, town, country, maybe as far as human species. What about beyond that? Animals? Sure, they have a nervous system and they can be cute. What about things that are nothing like us? Trees? Fungi?… Rocks? What universal force obliges us to act respectfully toward them? Does ethics even apply to rocks? Or was this just the tired ramblings of an overthinker? Listen and see…
Resources
Nathan Kowalsky
Sponsors
West Fraser
GreenLink Forestry Inc.
Quotes
29.09 - 29.23: “That’s often how the respect ethic has accounted for larger ecosystemic problems, is by saying that there are other human beings that are affected.”
Takeaways
Out of doors (05.44)
Nathan explains that many environmental writers prefer to say ‘out of doors’ instead of outdoors, to step away from the connotations of masculinity and related activities that the outdoors are usually associated with.
Depth and profundity (13.55)
Nathan defines philosophy as “the search for the meaning of things”. Philosophy helps us understand if things are meaningful and why, by posing helpful questions about meaning. It offers a rigorous process to get closer to answers.
“Part of being a philosopher is being frustrated” (16.23)
Nathan finds that philosophy attempts to answer questions that humans have always wondered about, and the process of finding the answers repeats over and over. The answers one comes across could be what work for them, but may not be the final answer.
Moral frameworks (23.19)
Morality, Nathan says, is about “trying to discover the answer to questions of human behaviour,” and is used interchangeably with ethics in philosophy. Harm minimization (utilitarianism) and respect (deontology) are two frameworks of ethics.
If you believe you can or Kant (27.24)
Immanuel Kant, the classical deontologist, believed that only rational beings could be the recipients of moral regard because they could reciprocate respect, which Nathan believes is a deeply anthropocentric position to take.
How useful is utilitarianism? (31.49)
Nathan talks about utilitarian philosopher Peter Singer’s theory that our circle of consideration must evolve to include non-human animals, but he also defines the limits of that circle.
“If you are not having anxiety when you are philosophizing, you are not doing it right” (37.53)
Nathan finds a sense of meaning in a sense of belonging in nature in a way that is embedded into what already exists. His identity comes from nature rather than in opposition to it. To him, respecting nature and its components is important.
Mindfulness (53.12)
Nathan believes that a person’s sense of connection with and belonging to nature may impact the outcomes of activities done in nature, but it will surely help them discover things about themselves.
Thinking is piety (1.05.03)
Nathan believes that the way in which we should relate to nature is to fit into a larger framework, so we can see ourselves as connected to nature, instead of as the center of the universe.
Re-indigenizing the planet in the Anthropocene (1.20.07)
Nathan laments the atrocities that were committed in the conquest of the land that has now come to be known as Canada. However, he finds hope in nature, that it is stronger than a culture can be.
How important are forests? How important is the wood we harvest from forests? The answer to both questions is - crucially important! We can imagine the role forests play in ecological function of the globe, but have you ever really considered where we would be without wood? The truth is we are dependent on both, and that is not going to change. In the re-release of his 1989 book “A Forest Journey” John Perlin explores the “Role of trees in the face of civilization.”
Resources
Forest Journey: The Story Of Wood And Civilization
Sponsors
West Fraser
GreenLink Forestry Inc.
Quotes
16.08 - 16.17: “Wood being the primary fuel enabled our species to survive.”
Takeaways
John’s books (05.41)
John’s first book delineates the history of solar energy to generate heat, which inspired him to study the importance of wood in doing so. His second book discusses how “we have misunderstood the underpinning of all cultures” based on the material that was deemed important in that age.
The living planet (18.20)
Archaeopteris, the first true tree, ensured the Darwinian evolution of terrestrial life. John’s book talks about how 130 million years later, an excess of carbon dioxide due to deforestation nearly caused all large life to become extinct.
Sustaining civilizations (24.55)
Humans’ use of wood for fire, tools and cooking, allowed them to congregate for the development of language and storytelling. Fire also helped in hunting and made nighttime safe, while aiding in developing settlements and metallurgy-based technologies.
Trees influence history (32.07)
Greek mythology is based on fire, and the presence of wood defined the Greek empire. Masting timber was the first cause of conflict in the American colonies. Differences also developed over the use of wood between Indigenous Americans and settlers. The defeat of the British also occurred because of the lack of masting timber.
We are living in a material world (49.08)
John highlights that planks under roads are wooden, and ceramic needs fire to be created. Wood has been used to produce fire for countless applications in metallurgy, and there used to be entire economies based on wood.
Trees protect (1.00.03)
John explains how biodiversity is a natural barrier to diseases and removing forests removes predators of disease-causing organisms, which can lead to an epidemic or pandemic. On the flip side, what may be perceived as directly harming trees may in fact be harming another species that fertilizes the soil.
“There’s nothing new under the sun” (1.11.07)
John is constantly inspired to gather knowledge, collect ideas and accumulate information and share it through his books and lectures. He talks about opposing schools of thought in forestry and the anthropomorphization of and ageism against trees, causing misinformation to live in the world.
The web of life (1.18.51)
John was fascinated to learn that roots do most of the carbon sequestration by creating carbonates which go all the way down to the oceans, where they become locked in the limestone and help animals like mollusks and gastropods build their shells.
Facing forward (1.21.52)
John has faced flak for expressing his opinion on how all humans bear the responsibility for resource depletion and turning “the world into a wasteland”. His book explains how landscapes have been completely transformed over time due to deforestation.
Trees communicating? Protecting their offspring? Sending warning signals? Even helping “competing” species? These are some of the incredible things we have heard about the “Wood Wide Web”. But, is it true? Or has the story got ahead of the science? A team of mycorrhizal researchers has discovered some painful truths about these fungal connections we have all come to be fascinated with. Justine Karst breaks down the myths and misconceptions about Common Mycorrhizal Networks (CMN), and the pain it caused her to do so. The first 50min is the science, the last 50min is the story behind it.
Resources
Justine’s Lab
Justine’s paper
Sponsors
West Fraser
GreenLink Forestry Inc.
Quotes
58.47 - 59.00: “If it makes you really mad, or if it makes you really happy, pause.”
Takeaways
The wood wide web (09.17)
Justine talks about how the belowground transfer of carbon in the field is not conclusively proven to occur through a mycorrhizal network, what some call the ‘wood wide web’. A common mycorrhizal network is formed when roots of two different plants are physically connected by fungal tissue.
Exploring functions (15.22)
Only two studies in the world have done high-resolution sampling showing with high certainty that the same fungus links two roots of different trees. Mycorrhizal fungi are essential in forests, but the function of common mycorrhizal networks is inconclusive.
Debunking myths (27.23)
The paper that Justine, Melanie and Jason worked on evaluated some of the widely held assumptions about common mycorrhizal networks - that they are widespread in forests, their benefits to trees, and the communication of warning signals between trees through the networks. Not enough studies have been done to conclusively support these ideas, and the methods used are difficult to control for confounding effects.
The truth (43.40)
Justine, Melanie and Jason could not find any peer-reviewed, published field studies testing the claim that trees recognize their kin and send warning signals to them. One graduate thesis even proved those claims wrong. When they looked at how scientists interpret these claims, they found that nearly 50% of the papers today citing original studies made unsupported statements.
“We’re looking to nature for how society should behave or act” (55.50)
While Justine wants to see people rethink their connections with nature, she does not want science to be distorted towards that end. Because of the misinformation about common mycorrhizal networks, the difference between possibility and established fact has blurred.
“I’d rather know the truth than believe in a fairytale” (1.06.00)
Justine acknowledges that her study may have burst the bubble for many but believes that the truth is helpful to all scientists. However, the lack of conclusive evidence on mycorrhizal common networks, in her opinion, does not devalue the conversations around species interactions.
Critically engaging with feedback (1.13.12)
Justine, Melanie and Jason’s study had three scientists sign the review, and their associating their reputation with the study was reassuring to her. The trio revised the manuscript based on their feedback and ensured it was thorough.
Against all odds, one species is making a comeback! Whitebark Pine! At the top of the mountain, where few other trees even try to survive, this species thrives. It is a keystone species that has developed a particularly peculiar way of spreading its young about the mountain side. Co-evolution anyone? If you like old trees, cool birds, species killing fungi, and most importantly, a story of hope, than this is the podcast for you!
Resources
Planting the Future: Saving whitebark and limber pine
Whitebark Pine Ecosystem Foundation of Canada
Sponsors
West Fraser
GreenLink Forestry Inc.
Quotes
1.12.12 - 1.12.20: “One of the most important things and hopeful things you can do is plant a tree under whose shade you won’t sit.”
Takeaways
Telltale signs of whitebark pine (9.42)
Contrary to their name, whitebark pine barks are not white, but silver, and their thick canopy makes them look like broccoli tops. Their needles occur in bunches of five instead of two.
Mutualism (15.52)
The Clark’s Nutcracker opens the cones of the whitebark pine and stays healthy on its high-fat seeds. It has evolved a pouch under its tongue to store up to 90 seeds of the tree.
Keystone and pioneering species (23.02)
Brenda finds that the whitebark pine is important for many species of birds and small mammals. Prescribed fires could be beneficial to their survival.
Whitebark pine proliferation (28.22)
Amelie describes the Clark’s Nutcracker’s specialized beak, which can open the hard egg-shaped cones of the whitebark pine. The bird’s range is 12-28 km.
“A species that gives back more to the ecosystem than it takes” (33.28)
Brenda expects the subalpine ecosystem to be different with the loss of whitebark pine, a community on which many species rely.
Threats to whitebark pine (41.18)
Blister rust, the mountain pine beetle beetle, fire suppression and climate change are all threats to whitebark pine.
100 Tree Survey (50.59)
Brenda’s role in Parks Canada is to help whitebark pine recover and survive. They visit 100 large-diameter trees in the stand in mast years and assess them for blister rust resistance.
Developing infection resistance (56.50)
Brenda’s team extracts the seeds from infection-resistant whitebark pine cones and sends them to nurseries to grow. Two years later, they take the seedlings back to the park to grow.
Protecting whitebark pine from beetles (1.03.17)
Brenda’s team applies 2 packets to the valuable whitebark pines every spring that send chemical messages to mountain pine beetles, which save 60% of the trees.
“Everybody’s favourite day is planting day” (1.09.27)
Brenda shares that there are 140 whitebark pines in Jasper National Park that they believe are resistant. It’s important to plant them at fair distances in microsites for protection.
A video speaks a million words (1.14.29)
Amelie is proud of the video that seven mountain parks in Canada came together to create to raise awareness of the whitebark conversation program and rust resistance.
Do your part (1.19.49)
Brenda is encouraged by how the video has inspired whitebark pine restoration efforts in Alberta and BC. Brenda believes that visiting the beautiful whitebark pine forests and supporting the Whitebark Pine Ecosystem Foundation of Canada are two ways in which each person can be a part of the conservation efforts.
Imagine a forest full of hardwoods (leafy trees). Then imagine towering sentinel Pines standing a full tree length above the rest. Now imagine a full forest of these Pines. That is what the North woods of eastern North America use to look like. Today, the Eastern White Pine is scarcely a remnant of what it use to be. The reason? It built America. A foundational tree in every sense of the word. White Pine is a keystone species, an ecological driver and one of the tallest, straightest, and fattest trees in the North woods. John Pastor came on the podcast to tell the human and ecological history of this species, and it truly opened my eyes.
Resources
White Pine by John Pastor
Sponsors
West Fraser
GreenLink Forestry Inc.
Quotes
28.25 - 28.30: “More revenue was generated by harvesting white pine than all the gold in California.”
Takeaways
A foundational species (09.08)
White pine is the largest tree in the Northwoods whose large biomass enables it to capture a lot of the sun’s energy that froze into the food web. It also allows it to control the cycling of nutrients through the food web by the uptake of nutrients and then shedding the needles.
Cultural significance of white pine (12.39)
John shares that Native Americans, particularly the Iroquois and the Algonquins (the Anishinabe) revered white pine. The Iroquois associate the 5 needle pines with the 5 original nations of the Iroquois Confederacy.
High grading or forestry? (16.24)
John acknowledges that logging helped people build homes, workplaces and bridges without importing. White pine is big and gave a lot of clear lumber, which could be cut into large sizes for large construction.
“The tree that made North America” (28.31)
New England colonists were not happy to share the lumber they harvested with England. The parliament passed laws marking white pines larger than 24” as reserved for the King, which resulted in a riot.
What Nature means (38.53)
“Europeans looked at natural resources as a commodity they needed to build civilization; First Nations looked at themselves as a part of nature”, John comments.
They can choose not to share their stories (46.22)
John is hopeful about the growing collaboration between foresters, ecologists and land managers and Indigenous Peoples. He cautions any white listeners not to demand Indigenous peoples share their stories.
Magical mycorrhizae (59.48)
John discusses mycorrhizae, the symbiotic relationships between plant roots and fungi. Mycorrhizae have helped restore white pine and protect forest cover.
Fire protects forests (1.07.31)
Thinning of young pines helped preserve the forest since the larger, older pines were more fire-tolerant due to their thick corky bark. This also helped people shift their perspective of fire.
Ecological forestry (1.18.31)
John agrees with the “save all the parts” philosophy but also sees the role timber plays in maintaining the sustainability of human populations. Many foresters today are mindful that their role is not to supply timber but to preserve the planet for future generations.
An experiment in forest management (1.27.28)
John believes that only successful forests which produce high-quality lumber are able to afford ecological silvicultural management of the forest. He discusses the difficulties in maintaining the different types of forests.
Looking to the future (1.32.43)
John summarizes that throughout history, each way of looking at forests has built upon and been added to the previous. Some views are coming into conflict now, but science will always take precedence when making decisions about the future of the forest.
Fire is many things; wild, controlled, rejuvenating, destructive, cultural, ecological, and most obviously, dangerous. Science writer Jacob Margolis lives in California where fire has become a constant worry. As a result, he plunged headfirst into the world of fire and came out with one of the best podcast series on fire that is available today. The Big Burn starts from the beginning and allows listeners to make sense of fire and to help them better understand, and therefore better cope with, the reality of fire.
Resources
The Big Burn podcast
Jacob Margolis
Sponsors
West Fraser
GreenLink Forestry Inc.
Quotes
28.40 - 28.50: “We clearly need a complete overhaul of how we handle fire and… forested ecosystems, especially here in the State of California.”
Takeaways
Knowledge is power (05.08)
Jacob loves being a science journalist because he gets to dive deep into things that interest him. Since 2017, he has covered fire to help people understand it and make it “a little less scary”.
Playing with fire (08.48)
Before starting his podcast, The Big Burn, Jacob felt scared and upset with fires. He has now spent time weatherizing his home by buying air purifiers. The podcast helps him understand how to approach the problem of fire.
Fire season (13.46)
Jacob states that the fire season in California comes around late August, and stays till early December. The Santa Ana winds start in September - October, and they wait till the winds come to an end in April or they get rain.
Tell me a story (16.21)
Jacob’s journey of creating a podcast on fire was to find an angle that would appeal to the listeners, going from the threat of the loss of the giant sequoias to finding a middle ground with people who don’t like trees.
“Fire is not binary” (21.30)
The episode on doing a prescribed burn was the easiest for Jacob to write because of the action and how relatable it was due to the explanations in the episode.
Fire exclusion and suppression (23.56)
Jacob highlights that tree ring records show that fuel buildup in the forests began in the mid-1800s. This is when the gold rush took place, which devastated Indigenous communities who had been actively managing the landscape.
How wildfires change ecosystems (26.05)
With climate change came high-intensity fires. The chaparral ecosystem of California used to recover with longer fire intervals, but with more frequent fires, the ecosystem was replaced by grass.
Indigenous land management (29.44)
Jacob explains that Native Americans had a different perspective on and relationship with the land. He believes present-day land use and management policies are worth examining against the Indigenous framework.
Managing prescribed fires (36.15)
Jacob laments that there isn’t a robust enough system to handle a prescribed fire going awry, on the rare occasion that it does. There also isn’t much incentive for firefighters to be around prescribed burns.
The good fire angle (49.48)
By introducing the high stakes of not doing prescribed burning, you can get buy-in and start to shift the conversation. If people could attend a prescribed burn, it would make it more relatable.
Change is needed (1.00.40)
Jacob is of the opinion that “how we treat our world is not working, especially when it comes to climate change”.
The old ways are changing. Technology moves fast, and with it our methods and strategies for managing the landscape. Artificial Intelligence, or machine learning, presents an incredible opportunity in forest management. Better and faster data means more time spent on other values. Values like biodiversity, clean water, carbon storage and recreation. Today we find out how far we have come and what lies ahead! Hopefully not Skynet…
Resources
Collective Crunch
Sponsors
West Fraser
GreenLink Forestry Inc.
Takeaways
Forest inventories (13.22)
Christof notes that forest inventories came into being after the overuse of forest resources in the industrial revolution and the realization that those resources are not unlimited. Country-wide inventories began only 100 years ago, and he claims Nordic and central European countries were the forerunners in this matter.
Forestry is an area where AI actually works (19.07)
Christof points out that LIDAR is done in 5-10 year cycles since acquiring data is expensive. They enrich data using their software to fill the gaps, making it cheaper. Rolf shares an example of how data can help track biodiversity loss to keep corporates accountable for their processes and offer transparency of ethics to consumers.
Data-driven baselining (27.52)
Rolf discusses one of their services, data-driven baselining for project management and bringing data into greenwashing conversations. Christof highlights that AI helps with squeezing the most out of the available data in a project. Rolf recognizes the benefits of this for a large landmass managed by a single entity.
The data you need (34.08)
Christof lists the various tools to acquire data at various levels of granularity and mentions that their customer segment usually looks for the medium scale of data. He talks about how modern AI systems are based on extracting and learning from existing data, the relationships between the data and what you want to predict.
Limits (39.24)
Rolf finds that the kind of data available can be limiting while Christof says ground measurements can be a limiting factor. Where LIDAR exists, technology can be used to augment the data between flights.
Valid and reliable (51.19)
Rolf talks about how data can provide a verifiable and scientific way to manage forests, and they are trying to convince the industry to become data-driven for scale. Their company can provide baseline analysis to help investors who are looking to invest in carbon credits.
The North American story (1.00.01)
Rolf foresees the carbon price continuing to go up in North America, which may incentivize forest owners to leave forests unharvested. Christof has observed change management initiatives in government forest organizations to embrace the new ways of managing forests.
The data-driven future (1.10.08)
Christof believes more and higher quality data is a matter of time. They are seeing exponential growth in data, and his dream is to have a digital equivalent of the world’s forest cover, which would expand the possibilities of forest planning and management for the most economically optimal operations. Rolf adds that higher-resolution data is needed for biodiversity initiatives, but that we are on our way there.
Public forests hold a lot of value for people. Clean water, fresh air, organic food, rich ecosystems, recreation opportunities, and timber for our homes. Now, it is forest professionals job to manage the public resource for these values. Only, how do we know what the public values? Have we asked? This episode is about social license, and the idea of a forest profession that is forever moving forward to better protect the public interest.
Resources
Association of Alberta Forest Management Professionals (AAFMP)
Rocky Mountain Goat Alliance
The Myth of the Omnipotent Forester
Has the Myth of the Omnipotent Forester Become the Reality of the Impotent Forester?
Sponsors
West Fraser
GreenLink Forestry Inc.
Quotes
33.06 - 33.11: “Our inherent nature is to read and seek information that supports our bias.”
Takeaways
For the people (13.00)
Carla defines the role of the regulator as protecting the public interest by ensuring foresters are qualified and pursuing continuing competence. In forestry, forest professionals are responsible to apply the values of the public in their work. She highlights the importance of ongoing public consultation, communication and relationship building.
The forestry industry (23.40)
Carla talks about how the industry is different today, with increased interaction with the public and the earning of social licences since most of what forest professionals do has a significant public impact. She encourages those looking to enter the industry to make the most of their time at school, selecting electives wisely and conducting informational interviews with professionals in the field to shine a light on their blind spots in the profession. She also celebrates reading about different perspectives in the field to broaden one’s horizons and ignite creativity.
“One of the core foundations of ethics is continuing competence” (36.10)
Carla laments that forestry has been accused of being stuck to old ways, but she finds foresters to be open and receptive. It is essential to be abreast with up-to-date science and apply it to one’s work, as due diligence. In the Friday notices she sends to all AAFMP members, she includes links to new information and Matt’s podcast.
Lifelong learning (55.33)
The continuing competence program is defined by the AAFMP council and is regularly reviewed. The intent is to move away from hours-based programs to competence profiles, which can lead to career growth. Carla gives the example of the Forest Technologist Standards they developed, which include soft sciences and an Indigenous component.
Being open (1.02.23)
Carla believes curiosity forms a large part of successful competency training. When one approaches Indigenous consultation from a place of inquiry, it prevents missing the big pieces of the conversation. She shares how AAFMP revised their exam to better help entrants in the field.
“Public interest is a moving target” (1.12.00)
Carla believes in encouraging people to be a part of the process of this self-regulated profession and to volunteer for committees that help make it what it is. She explains how her work involves balancing the interests of the bulk of the people with protecting minorities and being fair to the fringes of the profession.
Good Fire podcast is back! This is a bonus episode where we get to listen to the very knowledgeable, very passionate, and very engaged Bhiamie Williamson. We talk about cultural fire in Australia and the difference between western and Indigenous perspectives on fire, and our relationship to it.
Episode highlight
In this podcast, Bhiamie Williamson discusses the connection of Indigenous peoples to the land, and how cultural burning is a way to preserve the environment and cultural heritage.
Resources
Strength from perpetual grief: how Aboriginal people experience the bushfire crisis
Royal Commission into National Natural Disaster Arrangements
Sponsors
The Canadian Partnership for Wildland Fire Science
Support from:
● California Indian Water Commission
● Firesticks Alliance Indigenous Corporation
Quotes
12.00 - 12.10: “There is so much trauma in our communities, people have never had the opportunity, I feel, to kind of pick themselves up and dust themselves off from colonization.”
Takeaways
Fire is a shared resource (5.58)
As an Aboriginal child growing up in Australia surrounded by his culture, Bhiamie “always had a love for country”. He studied environmental and political sciences at university, and discovered the benefits of cultural burning.
Land is at the center of healing (11.26)
Bhiamie points out that fire plays an important role in Indigenous healing practices. Cultural burning can also prevent wildfires, thus preventing the trauma of losing ancestral lands.
Sharing the load (19.04)
Bhiamie has written an article that has inspired governments and agencies to provide trauma-informed support to Aboriginal peoples after natural disasters.
The land is a living museum (24.42)
Bhiamie informs that Aboriginal peoples have connections to land, and the animals, trees, stones, and petroglyphs are all part of the cultural heritage.
“The best form of protecting is prevention” (30.22)
Bhiamie recommends engaging Indigenous peoples in emergency management and prevention conversations which can help in high-pressure conditions.
“Think ahead and be happy to be unsettled” (38.37)
Bhiamie comments on the impacts of colonization and “centuries of oppression”, and the need to overturn it.
True reconciliation (46.59)
Bhiamie expresses his preference to have Indigenous peoples design their own emergency management programs across different lands in Australia.
Children of the future (59.19)
A majority of the Aboriginal population is young, which brings up the need to provide educational and developmental support along with family and social support.
“It’s just not good enough to ignore us anymore” (1.02.37)
Bhiamie observes that even when Indigenous peoples are invited to share their opinion, they are marginalized, with tokenized opportunities that contain the impact they can have.
Indigenizing masculinity (1.08.41)
Bhiamie’s Ph.D. research is on Indigenous men and masculinity, exploring masculinity from an Indigenous perspective.
“You can call that decolonization, I just call that common sense” (1.14.13)
In Bhiamie’s opinion, the first step to decolonization is to employ Indigenous peoples in senior roles. Land justice and repossession by Indigenous peoples, as well as cultural burning to manage climate change, are the next steps.
You can get in touch with the hosts of this podcast via email: amy.christianson@canada.ca and yourforestpodcast@gmail.com.
Many of us have heard of invasive species. We may even know a few species that are wreaking havoc in your local area. You have heard the doom and gloom of extinct species and ecosystem collapse. However, have your heard the success stories? How people have successfully managed to reclaim native landscapes and return species from the brink of extinction? Well, this is the good news story for you! We talk invasive species eradication on islands, and what we can learn from it.
Resources
Wes Jolley
Dena Spatz
Sponsors
West Fraser
GreenLink Forestry Inc.
Quotes
46.02 - 46.12: “Eradications are not just done by one group of people; it is an incredibly collaborative effort that really comes from the people that live on the islands first.”
Takeaways
“Biodiversity is concentrated on islands” (18.55)
Dena differentiates between non-native species, a species that has been introduced outside of its native range, and invasive species, a non-native species that causes harm to that ecosystem.
Island species (22.25)
Dena highlights that island species lose their defences. Islands are hotspots for endemism, which makes them epicenters for extinction.
The human element (27.14)
Humans are carriers of invasive species, inhabitants of the island, creators of its culture and the victims of damage by invasive species.
Invasive species cost over a trillion dollars (32.00)
A one-time action and then opportunities for human-assisted recovery create a long-term sense of biosecurity through financial and conservation investments.
Nuanced conservation (41.15)
A value-based conservation approach considers the broader benefits of biodiversity restoration, like increasing productivity in surrounding areas.
Collaborative and holistic efforts (45.57)
Dena highlights the importance of recognizing the values and needs of the community where eradication efforts take place. The local community is mindful of preventing invasive species from coming to their islands.
Considerations in conservation efforts (52.11)
Together, Pacific Rim Conservation and Island Conservation are creating ways to ensure restoration after the eradication of invasive species and build predator-proof fencing to prevent further invasions.
Global conservation efforts (1.04.29)
The Database of Island Invasive Species Eradications brings to light all the invasive species eradications and conservation efforts around the world over time.
“We can only do what we have the tech to be able to do” (1.10.42)
Dena knows there is a lot more work to be done but that there are tools and information available to make it possible. The cost of harm by invasive species is a big driver for change.
It’s raining iguanas! (1.18.30)
Dena shares some examples of translocating native species to restoration sites instead of completely eradicating invasive species, sharing some techniques used and the behaviour pattern of the seabirds involved.
Taking a leaf from the island book (1.27.17)
Dena highlights that islands are insular systems due to their geographic separation by water, but the lessons from island conservation efforts can be applied to other insular areas like mountaintops.
Proactive control (1.32.53)
Dena acknowledges that a globalized economy with its import-export trade and travel brings with it invasive species. There are political controls in place to ensure biosecurity and protect agriculture and the economy.
In Honour of the National Day of Truth and Reconciliation in Canada I am re-releasing one of my favourite episodes. Assistant Professor Matthew Wildcat breaks down the history and meaning of Canadian Treaties with Indigenous people. He explains that we are all treaty people and that everyone has a role to play in upholding the rights and freedoms treaties represent.
Resources
Matthew Wildcat
Sponsors
West Fraser
GreenLink Forestry Inc.
Damaged Timber
Quotes
1.29.25 - 1.29.37: “In the Canadian situation, what decolonization means is that you have to shift from becoming somebody who is a colonizer to somebody who is a treaty partner.”
Takeaways
Governance (5.14)
Matthew is an Assistant Professor of Political Science and Native Studies at the University of Alberta, interested in how Indigenous peoples govern today.
Laws (10.01)
First nations politics cannot be spoken about without addressing its relationship with Canadian society.
Two-way (17.13)
Treaties are the nuances of the relationship Indigenous peoples share with settlers.
Foundation (21.22)
Understand treaties as the reason for Canada’s creation, to prevent it from devolving into a story of conquest.
Symbiosis (29.09)
Hudson’s Bay Company relied on Indigenous peoples to perform their fur trade and sell them food.
Bison (32.57)
Bison herds were collapsing, which were the pillars of Indigenous economies and food.
Signing (35.36)
Not many Indigenous peoples spoke English, but many non-native people spoke Cree. Indigenous peoples used interpreters during negotiations, but a lot was lost in translation.
Understanding (38.32)
Indigenous peoples did not look to draw boundaries but expected that their permission be sought before sharing land.
The Indian Act (43.24)
The Indian Act was meant to enfranchise native people to become “full Canadian citizens” so there would no longer be “an Indian problem”.
Dishonouring (48.10)
The Riel Resistance of 1885 was bubbling with the general discontent with treaty terms not being honoured.
Barriers (54.30)
Many policies implemented by the Department of Indian Affairs undercut Indigenous farming efforts.
Trauma (1.00.43)
The ever-present trauma that residential school survivors suffer from makes life difficult.
Reserves (1.04.02)
Reserves isolate people and prevent communities from linking. Many Indian agents disallowed people to leave the reserve without a pass.
Difficulty (1.09.33)
Residential schools not only affected the students, but also the parents who had to live without children on their reserves. he can see how addictions could arise in such situations.
Relationships (1.15.05)
The most important aspect of this era is a willingness to have a relationship with Indigenous peoples, with their variety of life experiences and views.
Allyship (1.21.13)
As treaty partners, we all have to believe that Indigenous peoples have political rights, which will form the basis of the political relationships between us.
Partnership (1.26.07)
We have to put more effort into thinking about how Indigenous peoples will prosper and become true treaty partners in recognizing the political relationship.
Change (1.36.12)
The concepts of truth and reconciliation have allowed non-Indigenous peoples to tie the current situation of Indigenous peoples with its historical reasons.
Cultural Fire is something we have discussed quite a lot on this podcast. Today, we get to hear from some folks in Parks Canada about how they will be opening up the door to cultural fire. Some really open minded and thoughtful people at Parks have made it possible for Indigenous voices to be heard and for real change to be made. Getting Good Fire back on the land, in a place that is synonymous with “wilderness”, is a huge step in the right direction for understanding our relationship to land.
Resources
A Time For Burning by Henry Lewis
United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples
Sponsors
West Fraser
GreenLink Forestry Inc.
Forest Proud
Quotes
27.02 - 27.08: “If we look at cultural burning just from a fire perspective, you are missing the whole picture about… mental health and other things.”
Takeaways
Cultural burning differences (11.02)
Each Indigenous community burns for different reasons, using different techniques.
Impact of colonization (12.26)
Cultural burning was carried out till settlers brought in fire exclusion policies.
Truth and reconciliation (13.30)
Parks Canada is honest about its history of removing people from the landscape.
Relearning cultural burning (15.30)
Amy began learning the importance of fire on the landscape from Métis Elders.
Creating more fire-keepers (19.18)
There is a need to train more Indigenous peoples to become fire-keepers.
Prescribed vs. cultural burning (21.54)
Amy points out that prescribed and cultural burning are not the same.
Using cultural practices on the land (25.33)
It can only be up to Indigenous peoples to define cultural burning and come into Parks Canada to do that.
Making meaningful strides with reconciliation (33.18)
Pierre’s ex-wife is Miꞌkmaq and he is inspired to bring back their cultural practices, like burning, to the land to maintain ecological integrity for his 2 daughters.
Indigenous ways of knowing (41.34)
Indigenous peoples feel frustrated by fire policies that were created by non-Indigenous people who had no connection to cultural burning.
Long road ahead (45.05)
Some challenges in bringing Indigenous knowledge into the mainstream are official processes, oral records, cultural appropriation and multiple land claims.
Enabling Indigenous collaboration (47.25)
Amy has been brought in as a dedicated resource to help fire managers remove barriers to Indigenous participation with Parks Canada.
Programs, people, personalities (52.21)
Amy is working on a cultural burn program, a series of workshops, associated field trips, and coordinating with the Métis nation on re-writing fire policy and conducting workshops.
Removing barriers (1.01.00)
Amy assessed the barriers to managing fire and claims there is work to be done to remove those.
Knowledge keeping (1.06.00)
Involving Indigenous communities and Elders keeps the knowledge protected so they can burn with support from Parks Canada.
Looking ahead (1.14.00)
Recent fires have made people nervous to put fire back on the ground, but researchers have affirmed its need.
Be a good ally (1.18.18)
Being a good ally is “using your power to make space for Indigenous peoples”.
Wildfires and Climate Change… what a combo. Dr. Susan Prichard came on the show to talk about how we might start to adapt our forests to the impacts of a changing fire regime due to a rapidly changing climate. What tools and methods can be used to help mitigate some of the most dangerous aspects of the fire reality we live in today.
Episode highlight
In this episode, Susan Prichard talks about using prescribed burning as a way to prevent runaway wildfires and manage climate change.
Resources
Dr. Susan J Prichard
Adapting western North American forests to climate change and wildfires: 10 common questions
Sponsors
West Fraser
GreenLink Forestry Inc.
Damaged Timber
Forest Proud
Giveaway
Enter YourForest10 at checkout at the Damaged Timber store for a 10% discount!
Quotes
16.24 - 16.35: “Indigenous knowledge persists and… Indigenous people throughout western North America had a really good handle on living in fire country.”
Takeaways
At the cusp of management and research (04.28)
Susan thinks of herself as a forest ecologist more than a wildfire ecologist. Wanting to be the best scientist she could be has inspired her throughout her career.
The case for adaptive management (07.42)
Susan is interested in adapting forests to a warmer climate. She’s been noticing similarities in fire intensity increases, fire loss patterns and fuel loading.
Active management of wildfire (14.00)
Susan notes that there are polarized views even in forest ecology. She highlights the need for active management of wildfires.
The change conundrum (20.29)
Susan describes how forests have changed due to the loss of Indigenous fire tending and how climate change is impacting the nature of fire.
Balancing priorities (27.02)
Susan talks about how “management is always very place-based” and that some tools work in certain places, not others.
Thinning vs. burning (29.23)
Susan observes that prescribed burning works well to clean up the fuels that carry high-intensity fire. Combined with thinning, it helps forests achieve more drought tolerance.
The rewards of patience (35.04)
Susan has noticed burn crews practice patience so that fire can be restorative instead of aggressive. She also respects firefighting crews for the work they do in wildfire incidents.
Broker a new reality with fire (45.47)
Susan’s “number 1 priority for society is to cap greenhouse gas emissions”, though we would still be living in a warm or dry climate.
Fire and smoke-adapted (49.36)
Susan talks about how people are using indoor air purifiers to be prepared for the next smoke event, to protect themselves from volatile organic compounds.
Fire-wise and Fire-smart (53.36)
Even though it is difficult for fire-impacted communities to deal with more smoke, there is an increased acceptance of prescribed burning. Communities are learning from one another about cultural burning too, and Susan hopes to do her part as a good ally to empower Indigenous voices to be a part of land management decisions.
A can-do attitude (1.02.31)
Supportive management, tolerance for mistakes and a certain risk appetite help fire stewardship, which will prevent any runaway wildfires.
“Prescribed burning gets an excelled report card” (1.10.45)
Susan states that prescribed fire escapes are less than 1% in the USA. She wants prescribed burners to be as supported and appreciated as firefighters are.
That’s right, logging Jasper National Park in Alberta, Canada. Blasphemy you say? We have to protect the resource! We have to keep it “pristine”, “untouched”, “wild”! Well…you are not alone in that thought. However, we are now realizing that maybe “letting nature take care of itself” is not the best strategy. Time to think outside the box. Jasper had a problem, they took a risk, and a lot of people learned a lot of neat things.
Resources
Canfor
Sponsors
West Fraser
GreenLink Forestry Inc.
Damaged Timber
Forest Proud
Giveaway
Enter YourForest10 at checkout at the Damaged Timber store for a 10% discount!
Quotes
1.14.49 - 1.14.57: ”The more collaboration and… open and honest work that you can do with people upfront, the better off the project’s going to be.”
Takeaways
Then and now (04.56)
David speaks of the change in perspective from putting fires out in the early 1900s to shifting to Indigenous fire management and how fire protects the forest.
Reducing fire risk (07.11)
David’s team began considering removing the fuel load from Jasper National Park mechanically to reduce fire risk in the community.
Protecting the community (11.34)
David mentions that logging in a national park has become more common to deal with fire risks in the community. Landon recounts the history of logging in Jasper National Park.
Doing right by the people (25.43)
They wanted the logging to be at the lowest cost to the public, so they used the value of the wood logged to cover the cost of the project. They picked Canfor for their ecological focus.
The right people for the job (32.19)
Kari knew Canfor had the right equipment and experience from working on different projects with different organizations. Kari also has extensive experience and education in ecology.
The top two objectives (37.59)
The two objectives - to reduce the canopy fuel density to reduce the risk of severe wildfire and to maintain ecological integrity, were equally important to David and Landon.
Wins and challenges (40.29)
Kari describes the equipment, season and process used which protected the ground from disturbance.
Protection and forestry (44.20)
For Jasper National Park and Canfor, arriving at a common point of view and language was a necessary undertaking to achieve goals in time.
Finding the balance (55.45)
Those involved with this project wanted to leave a good legacy, to have the soil be as unaffected as possible while logging. Canfor suggested some procedures in order to do so.
The know-how (1.02.18)
Shelley viewed the logging project as a good fit for her to take on, given her experience navigating the complexities of contractual agreements and speaking the loggers’ language.
Finding a way out (1.06.35)
Shelley believes in the non-prescriptive approach with loggers so new possibilities can show up for both ecological and economical sustainability to be achieved.
The memories etched onto the land (1.10.45)
Different parts of the landscape are meaningful to different people, and balancing that with the economics of the task is challenging, Kari acknowledges.
The path forward (1.18.56)
Some areas of Jasper National Park are marked for Indigenous partners to use for ceremonies and gatherings. Reducing fire risk in the area is part of a continuing conversation to bring cultural burning back on the land.
Bear safety information is more riddled with opinions and ego than twitter. Guns vs spray, brown bears vs black bears, run vs play dead, climb a tree vs run down hill. Let the science of bear safety clarify things for you. Kim Titchener has nearly 2 decades of working with bears doing research, education, and even babysitting the big furry animals. She lays the groundwork and dispels the myths you have been hearing your entire life. Clarity is found here. This is not your fathers bear safety tips.
Resources
Bear Safety & More
Sponsors
West Fraser
GreenLink Forestry Inc.
Damaged Timber
Forest Proud
Giveaway
Enter YourForest10 at checkout at the Damaged Timber store for a 10% discount!
Quotes
9.59 - 10.05: “It shocks me… the grace at which these animals let us continue to live with them.”
Takeaways
Finding her bearings (05.13)
Kim’s family, early jobs and education set her on the path of working with bears.
Bear safety and more (12.41)
Kim helps industries create courses on safety with black, grizzly and polar bears. However, she has to prove her expertise as a woman, using science and experience.
Things Kim can’t bear (17.22)
Kim laments that people still think they can outrun a bear or climb a tree to escape. She points out that guns cannot be loaded and shot precisely as bear sprays can.
Bearing the brunt (21.32)
The media blames bears for any mishap, but Kim highlights that most of the time, it is the people’s fault, and she believes the media needs to be mindful of its narrative.
Bear necessities (31.15)
Be loud, carry bear spray, stay in large groups, and don’t leave children unsupervised or dogs unleashed. Avoid being outdoors at dusk and dawn, and never approach a bear!
Every season is bear season (40.53)
Kim’s course teaches about bears’ seasonal behaviours and what they feed on at different times of the year, so you can be mindful of those plants.
Defensive bears (42.21)
If you run into a bear with cubs or a carcass or if you surprise a bear at close range, they become defensive, huffing, jaw popping, paw pounding, foaming and drooling. Back away.
Bear down (48.41)
If a defensive bear is not appeased by your backing away and charges toward you, use your bear spray. If you do not have any or can’t spray it in time, drop to the ground and play dead.
Bare your teeth! (52.50)
Kim warns against playing dead in a predatory attack! Instead, use bear spray and fight back. Hit the bear with rocks or branches in their eyes or nose.
Not your average bear (57.38)
Predatory bears show different signs than defensive bears - they will approach you in any pattern - directly, zig-zag or appear next to you. They may pull their ears back sometimes.
No use bearing arms (1.06.18)
Bear bangers can further aggravate a defensive bear or go off behind them, causing them to charge toward you. Many gun encounters have led to the loss of human lives.
Bear spray for the win! (1.14.27)
Bear spray inflames the mucous membranes in the eyes, nose, mouth, lungs and skin, causing involuntary eye closure, making the bear cough, gag and have difficulty in breathing.
Our forests are being stolen! One tree at a time! And it can all be blamed on poverty. After logging towns are surrounded by protected areas and all of the industry has stopped, what are the people who have created a life there for generations supposed to do? It is their identity, who they are, it is all they know, logging, and it has been taken away. Some of those desperate people continue to do what they know, and it is costing the rest of society dearly.
Resources
Lyndsie’s profile
Lyndsie’s book Pre-order now!
Sponsors
West Fraser: https://www.westfraser.com/
GreenLink Forestry Inc.: http://greenlinkforestry.com/
Damaged Timber: https://www.damagedtimber.com/
Forest Proud: https://forestproud.org/
Quotes
32.43 - 32.52: “Because old growth is a carbon sink,... For an old growth to be stolen has quite an impact on the environment and a forest’s ability to adapt.”
Takeaways
Tree sleuthing (8.43)
The first time Lyndsie heard about tree poaching was when one of the largest red cedars in Carmanah Walbran Provincial Park on Vancouver Island was poached in 2012.
Following the trails (17.21)
On Vancouver Island, Lyndsie shadowed natural resource officers and discovered that old growth douglas fir and cedar are the most poached there.
Drugs and poaching (21.33)
There is widespread drug use in the poaching community, so the poacher takes the wood directly to the drug dealer.
The damage (29.24)
In the USA, poaching of forest service land is valued at 20 million dollars a year, accounting for 1 in 10 felled trees being poached, which has reduced the amount of old growth left.
The person, the poacher (34.15)
The poachers shared the challenges of living in a community that never recovered from stopping industrial logging in their interviews with Lyndsie
Lumber families (37.49)
Lyndsie shares that one of the towns she went to had families who had moved there for logging and saw it as a part of their lineage and identity.
Revenge poaching (50.25)
In the pacific northwest, logging towns that were once stable economies degenerated into hubs of unemployment, homelessness and drug use after logging was stopped.
Million missteps (56.05)
Lyndsie believes that the poachers need to be listened to and systems changed since many mistakes have been made over the history of conservation to lead to this place.
Multinational economy (1.01.01)
Lyndsie found some similarities in her research in Peru and BC. Immediate financial security from poaching has taken away from the consequences of reducing old growth.
Whose land? (1.05.29)
Hiring people in desperate poverty to poach a tree on a foreign land who may not question what they are being asked to do, damages the Indigenous people’s ancestral property.
Trees changing hands (1.09.39)
Lyndsie outlines the many places a tree goes when it is poached, and how difficult it is for investigators to intercept the process, due to its transport process and proving the source.
Community (1.19.01)
There is a community forest right outside Lyndsie’s door and she sees community forests as providing a way to conserve that also incorporates use.
A perfect storm (1.25.58)
A poacher acknowledged that the history of clearing land in North America is associated with disenfranchising Indigenous peoples.
Forests suck up roughly 30% of our carbon emissions annually. If we want a fighting chance against climate change, we need them to keep doing this, and if possible to suck up more. However, there are different theories as how to best manage forest for carbon storage. Luckily, some research has shed some light on this issue. Do new forests suck up more carbon than old? How does carbon released during a forest fire compare to carbon released during harvesting? How do we do the most good for the most people?
Resources
Sierra Club
Sponsors
West Fraser
GreenLink Forestry Inc.
Damaged Timber
Forest Proud
Quotes
1.01.34 - 1.01.44: “We know that forests can be a missing piece of… the things we could do to combat climate change.”
Takeaways
Forest service: then and now (12.11)
Jim narrates the history of logging and construction in US forests, which inspired the conservation movement in the late 1800s.
Canada and USA differences (16.45)
Jim outlines the differences between Canada and the USA: Canada has less people but more public forest estate and uses less wood.
Determine where to conserve nature (24.15)
Bev has been involved in various aspects of global carbon cycle research for over 30 years to understand the role of forests in taking carbon from the atmosphere.
Carbon density and biodiversity (28.00)
Bev’s team’s research showed that where carbon density was higher, so was biodiversity. They modelled future carbon accumulation under future climate conditions.
Forest carbon accounting (32.40)
Afforestation increases forest carbon 10 times more than reforestation, and a young forest takes the “slow in, fast out” approach in restoring carbon balance.
“Greatest good for the greatest number” (37.59)
While private industrial lands are managed for economic value, public forests, particularly old growth ones, should be managed for carbon sequestration.
Reexamining forest management practices (42.37)
Jim shares his experience working with the forest of the Pacific Northwest in the early 1990s when the northern spotted owls became endangered, which stopped the massive logging.
“The environment is the people at large” (49.15)
Jim’s book, Toward a Natural Forest, expounds his views on managing climate change and meeting natural resource needs by restoring the character of mature and old growth forests.
Strategic forest reserves (1.00.34)
Alex proposes thinking along the lines of creating executive action for old growth and mature forests’ direct mapping, cataloguing and conservation.
Measure twice, cut once (1.06.46)
Bev discusses her research around carbon stocks in mature and old growth forests. Maturity of different species and fire intensity of the forests impact forest management approaches.
Captain Planet (1.17.14)
Bev would like to protect species biodiversity and drinking water sources, and prevent extinction on federal lands.
“With fire, it’s one size does not fit all” (1.20.32)
Bev speaks about the considerations in fire and forest management and how fire impacts different types of forests differently.
Hold onto the forests and grow more (1.27.25)
Jim clarifies that prescribed burning only causes 2-3% of carbon to be lost to the atmosphere but the forest soon recovers and starts sequestering carbon again.
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How can we build a relationship with forests that everyone can be proud of? How can we stand up for forests while supporting human development? How can we be a part of forest climate solutions? We need public engagement! Forest Proud can help with that. We talk forests as climate solutions, forest values, tree data, and my favorite, tree equity!
Sponsors
West Fraser: https://www.westfraser.com/
GreenLink Forestry Inc.: http://greenlinkforestry.com/
Damaged Timber: https://www.damagedtimber.com/
Forest Proud: https://forestproud.org/
Giveaway
Enter YourForest10 at checkout at the Damaged Timber store for a 10% discount!
Quotes
06.02 - 06.06: “If you live, work or play with forests or forest products, we think you are part of the climate solution.”
Takeaways
Forest climate solutions (05.44)
Rae is Director, Partner Experience at Forest Proud, a non-profit supporting forest climate solutions by championing sustainable forestry and helping people establish a symbiotic relationship with forests and forest products. Everyone, from those who enjoy forests to those who work with forests, has a part to play in stewarding forest climate solutions.
Tell me your story (9.11)
Forest Proud helps different parties working with forests tell their stories to each other to see how they form a cohesive whole. They also find content that is relevant to forest management and bring them into social conversations to support climate solutions. They also dig deeper into conversations already taking place to help inform and educate about the cycle of forest management.
Education and information to inform solutions (12.38)
Rae talks about how people’s perceptions of forestry can be varied and shaped by the media. and believes that everyone can be a part of forest climate solutions.
Lead with pride (17.40)
Rae recommends sharing the passion foresters feel and how they are a part of the solution, to help others see how they can contribute to climate solutions through their own actions. Rae believes “that ability to feel plugged into something bigger than us is something that is missing“, which stories can provide.
Be the change (22.03)
Rae studied social sciences at university and enjoyed activities like hiking, hunting and fishing. Rae worked in data collection and communication for the social sector for 5-6 years, observing the impact of forests on anti-poverty data. Doing tree planting and advocacy on the side, Rae found forestry to be an ideal career to combine people-based solutions with environmental solutions.
#forestproud (33.01)
Forest Proud has created an online community of people advancing forest solutions through #forestproud. Forest Proud can help craft your message in a way that is relatable to different people at different stages of environmental concern and contribution.
Tree equity (48.12)
Rae defines tree equity as having enough trees in any locality so that all residents can enjoy the benefits of trees - health, economic, recreational, and emotional. There should be at least 3 trees for every person to enjoy.
Plant a tree. Plant another tree. Plant 1,999,999,998 more. That is what Canada is planning to do in the name of fighting climate change. 2 Billion trees planted by 2030. The Canadian Forest Service estimates that by 2050, the 2 billion additional trees planted could reduce GHG emissions by up to 12 megatonnes of carbon dioxide equivalent (Mt CO2e) annually – the equivalent of taking over 2 million gasoline-powered cars off the road each year. If that is not a big deal, I am not sure what is. Today we talk with representatives from The Canadian Forest Service(Government), Coast to Coast Reforestation (Nurseries), and Project Forest(Afforestation and Silviculture) to try and cover all the angles of this monumental task.
Resources
Anne-Hélène Mathey: https://sustain.forestry.ubc.ca/people/former-students/doctorates/dr-anne-helene-mathey/
Mike Toffan: https://projectforest.ca/team/mike-toffan/
Scott Formaniuk: https://treetimeservices.ca/about/our-team
Braiding Sweetgrass: https://www.amazon.ca/Braiding-Sweetgrass-Indigenous-Scientific-Knowledge/dp/1571313567/ref=asc_df_1571313567/?tag=googleshopc0c-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=293014842916&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=6906331647491887417&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9001251&hvtargid=pla-625520155112&psc=1
Quotes
20.56 - 21.01: “You don’t just plant any trees anywhere. You have to have the right tree, the right place.”
Takeaways
Progress statistics (13.25)
2 billion dollars have been allocated to the 10-year 2 Billion Trees program, beginning in 2021. Over 30 million trees of 50 species have been planted in 1 year across 500+ Canada sites.
Right tree, right place (19.34)
Anne-Hélène shares that tree planting is a challenging process. She envisions supply chain issues with seed collection, timing, and species that can adapt to the location’s climate.
Planting logistics (25.34)
Anne-Hélène discusses the option for multi-year contribution agreements in the program, wherein planting organizations become partners for a set number of years.
Biodiversity benefits (30.05)
Anne-Hélène would like to work in partnership with Indigenous groups, municipalities and private organizations. Trees must be planted on ecologically sound lands.
Human benefits (38.19)
In his experiences engaging the Indigenous communities, Mike has seen a “real, meaningful impact”. Planting a tree can be an enjoyably unique way to interact with nature.
Planting impacts (44.42)
Anne-Hélène is motivated by the progress the program has made the impact it has had on different communities. Mike ran a ‘Submit Your Tree Story’ contest, revealing impacts.
Location decisions (49.33)
Anne-Hélène mentions that they are working with wildlife service partners towards ensuring planting sites that will be most beneficial to support habitats and wildfire reduction.
Planting partners (56.44)
Scott highlights the importance of working with partners and forestry professionals to assess areas for planting based on the effects of burns.
Empowering nurseries (59.33)
Anne-Hélène speaks about training applicants who are not professional foresters and the infrastructure-style investments for nursery expansion.
Tree talk (1.07.11)
Anne-Hélène looks to those in the supply chain for feedback and to point the way forward for the next 9 years, addressing the climate and biodiversity challenges.
The bigger picture (1.17.52)
Anne-Hélène laments that the program is restricted to the 10-year timeline; communication will be paramount to keep course-correcting through this time frame.
What would forestry look like if Indigenous cultural values were the driving force behind management decisions, instead of western values? How would it be different? What would it mean to put timber as a secondary priority to ecosystem health? What if the primary intention of harvesting was to accomplish some ecosystem goal? What happens to the ecosystem? The community? The money? Let’s find out.
Resources
Westbank First Nation: https://www.wfn.ca/
Sponsors
West Fraser: https://www.westfraser.com/
GreenLink Forestry Inc.: http://greenlinkforestry.com/
Damaged Timber: https://www.damagedtimber.com/
Giveaway
Enter YourForest10 at checkout at the Damaged Timber store for a 10% discount!
Quotes
11.22 - 11.34: “I really want to be that voice for the trees, the voice for the land itself, the voice for the water, and all the things that haven’t had a voice up until this point or a limited voice at the very least.”
Takeaways
Dave’s forestry journey (4.24)
Dave has recently gotten the opportunity to work with Westbank First Nation on their community forest. This has changed how he thinks of forestry and land.
Jordan’s forestry journey (09.24)
Jordan, a member of the Westbank First Nation, has been elected to the council since 2019. He works with the community forest using a stewardship value approach.
“The work on the land is healing for our people” (16.27)
Jordan says that working in the community forest is a way for Indigenous people to re-establish the connection to the land that colonization took from them.
Decision-making based on what the land wants, not what regulations want (18.12)
Dave acknowledges that every member of the ecosystem is interconnected. He regularly seeks feedback on forestry initiatives from diverse members of the community.
Active healing comes with honest discussions (23.54)
Jordan sees the opportunity for community forest members to work with the industry as a form of reconciliation and relationship building.
Upholding and incorporating Indigenous values (27.48)
Jordan feels that by helping foresters protect the lands by sharing Indigenous land values and laws, First Nations members can affect political change.
“The worst plan you can have is the plan you can finish” (35.04)
Dave shares that land plans evolve constantly as more knowledge is added by community members about different portions of the community forest.
Connection and responsibility (41.37)
Jordan adds that stewardship springs from our responsibility to recognize Indigenous land rights as well as the implications one decision has on another aspect of the land.
7 generational planning (48.00)
Dave talks about basing all their forest management principles on the 7 generation planning framework, which considers the impact on the land for 7 generations to come.
WFN Management (1.03.16)
Dave explains the structure of the Westbank First Nation community forest management, licensing agreements and economic model. However, he maintains that “ensuring the land is cared for” in the best interest of the community is more important than profits.
Knowledge beyond the books (1.17.04)
Dave states Indigenous and non-Indigenous local knowledge is needed when working with any land, which is gained by conversing with those who have an intimate connection with the land.
Any chance I get to pick this guy’s brain I do it! Garry has spent decades considering the clashing of two cultures, Indigenous and western culture, and how the miscommunication between them has built up barriers that are difficult to break through. Garry lays out his experience, as an Indigenous person, and as a forester, regarding the past present and future of land management, communication, and collaboration. He explains the earth-based land ethic held by many First Nations cultures, and how this land ethic may be the answer to many of our questions, or at the very least worth considering.
Episode highlight
Garry Merkel speaks about the role that earth-based land management practice plays in restoring ecosystem integrity and health.
Resources
Studies discussed by Garry in this episode regarding moose browse;
The exceptional value of intact forest ecosystems
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/323399911_The_exceptional_value_of_intact_forest_ecosystems
Roads and their major ecological effects
https://www.annualreviews.org/doi/abs/10.1146/annurev.ecolsys.29.1.207
Nutritional Quality and Tannin Astringency of Browse in Clear-Cuts and Old-Growth Forests
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/271694789_Nutritional_Quality_and_Tannin_Astringency_of_Browse_in_Clear-Cuts_and_Old-Growth_Forests
Reconciliation with Garry Merkel: https://yourforestpodcast.com/episode-1/2021/11/29/btlw1dfftblgwjopr1bsspxc8zvelt
Sponsors
West Fraser: https://www.westfraser.com/
GreenLink Forestry Inc.: http://greenlinkforestry.com/
Damaged Timber: https://www.damagedtimber.com/
Giveaway
Enter YourForest10 at checkout at the Damaged Timber store for a 10% discount!
Quotes
1.21.10 - 1.21.20: “The likelihood of you being earth-centered increases significantly when you understand that your survival is completely dependent on taking care of the earth.”
Takeaways
Public expectation (06.44)
Garry explains how the role of the forester has expanded over the years to address too many issues, including economic demands. This has contributed to the loss of ecosystem function and biodiversity.
Industrial Forestry (10.54)
Garry talks about how the negative effects of large-scale industrial forestry in BC have only been recognized in the last few decades.
Clear Cuts (19.45)
Garry points out that the primary harvesting system in BC is clear-cutting which sets the ecosystem back because of the amount of disturbance.
Learning the hard way (26.38)
Garry claims that our society is now making different choices after seeing the impact of past choices.
Synergistic land care (34.44)
Garry highlights how New Zealand, Australia and a town in Wisconsin have modified their land management systems to align with the indigenous land ethic.
Radical regenerative forestry (41.16)
Garry shares about groups who are working on regenerative forestry to restore the health of the ecosystem by shutting down industrial activities for a while.
Indigenous ethic (45.46)
Garry is working with UBC to create an indigenous land center to gather and document the earth-centered land ethic.
Outcome, not output (1.00.05)
Garry says that we need to be very conscious of cost and efficiency so that we can afford to conduct sustainable land management.
Relationship plans (1.10.27)
Garry, as a scientist, has found many instances where indigenous knowledge has “turned out to be way more valuable than scientific knowledge”.
Earth at the core (1.17.50)
Garry dispels the myths that earth-centered management is uniquely indigenous and that all indigenous groups have it.
Caring for the land (1.24.38)
Garry is a strong supporter of how earth-centered ideologies are translating to land stewardship systems, some of which are pragmatic and economically effective.
Nature is unpredictable (1.34.15)
Garry states that you are doomed to frustration if you assume that nature is predictable.
Positive change (1.39.44)
Garry’s way is to educate and engage all the relevant parties, bring in the best scientists and foster a covenant with everyone to achieve the best outcomes possible.
If you liked this podcast, please rate and review it, share it on Instagram and Facebook and tag a friend, and send your feedback and comments to yourforestpodcast@gmail.com.
You know those soggy, low places, where the trees are leaning like they have had too much to drink, and the sharp yellow of the Tamaracks in fall makes you want to go for a long walk? Those are the places we are discussing today. Edward Struzik joins me to discuss his new book, Swamplands. He details the cultural histories, folklore, economic activities, species at risk, carbon capture capacity, flood mitigation and future, of the world’s peatlands.
Resources
Edward’s book: Swamplands: Tundra Beavers, Quaking Bogs, and the Improbable World of Peat
Sponsors
West Fraser: https://www.westfraser.com/
GreenLink Forestry Inc.: http://greenlinkforestry.com/
Damaged Timber: https://www.damagedtimber.com/
Giveaway
Enter YourForest10 at checkout at the Damaged Timber store for a 10% discount!
Quotes
34.37- 34.49: “Peatlands offer a much much better opportunity to deal with climate change issues and… also mitigate floods.”
Takeaways
Biological hotspots (04.42)
Edward speaks about his month-long river trip bursting with biodiversity which inspired him to write his book. He realized that peatlands provide great soil conditions as a medium for growth due to the accumulation of partially decayed vegetation in the wet, cold environment.
From pollutification to peatlands (13.09)
Edward explains that peatlands are formed by a kind of swamping. Swamps and marshes don’t accumulate as much peat as quickly as fens and bogs do, which are the primary accumulators of peat.
Wetlands are not wastelands (16.33)
Edward shares some superstitions surrounding wetlands that arose due to the methane making them glow in the dark. The smell of Sulphur dioxide arising from the peat as well as the diseases from the bacteria in the water supply have evoked a revulsion in the public.
An inexpensive, healthy ecosystem with carbon storage (28.01)
The peatland ecosystem has 5 times more carbon storage capacity than an equivalent area in the Amazon rainforest. Peat releases polysaccharides which block bacterial growth, it filters runoff from the farms to prevent the growth of algae in lakes, helps in preventing forest fires, mitigates floods, and hosts many carnivorous plants.
How to save the planet (37.01)
Edward has been advocating and teaching about controlled burning to thin out the forest, as indigenous communities do, which reduces the intensity of fires and makes more moisture available.
Restoring the peatland, restoring the habitat (51.60)
Edward laments that limiting peatlands prevents the 3 to 5 billion birds that migrate from the south to nest. He cites studies and recalls stories discussing how different species of animals take refuge in peatlands.
Protecting the protector of nature (1.06.59)
With investment toward restoring peatlands, Edward says that we can “have much more success storing carbon, filtering water, buffering forests from wildfire and protecting endangered species”.
Read, enjoy and learn! (1.18.25)
Edward’s aim in his book is to translate the debate of complex scientific issues to dinner-party conversation for the reader. He also aims to be more positive and centered, using optimism in his writing instead of picking sides in a battle.
If you liked this podcast, please rate and review it, share it on Instagram and Facebook and tag a friend, and send your feedback and comments to yourforestpodcast@gmail.com.
If we want healthy ecosystems, we must balance the human demands of nature with the ecosystem’s capacity to provide it. For centuries, eastern Canada has experienced massive fire suppression, nearly complete loss of cultural fire, clearing for agriculture and homesteading, planting of non-native trees species for timber harvesting and so many other disturbances to its natural ecology. La Mauricie National Park is trying to right some of those wrongs and bring balance back to the landscape. This podcast details the last 30 years of prescribed fire in La Mauricie National Park and the lessons they have learned.
Episode highlight
Michel Thériault and Elisabeth Caron speak about using prescribed fire to manage the health of forests.
Resources
Restoration in Quebec’s Forests: https://www.iawfonline.org/article/7811/
La Mauricie National Park Fire Map Story https://www.pc.gc.ca/en/pn-np/qc/mauricie/nature/conservation/restauration-restoration/feu-fire/carte-narrative-story-map
Sponsors
West Fraser: https://www.westfraser.com/
GreenLink Forestry Inc.: http://greenlinkforestry.com/
Damaged Timber: https://www.damagedtimber.com/
Giveaway
Enter YourForest10 at checkout at the Damaged Timber store for a 10% discount!
Quotes
1.32.59 - 1.33.04: “There’s a lot more to learn when you fail than when you succeed.”
Takeaways
Starting from ground zero (05.28)
Michel studied wildlife management and forest ecology. His graduation was a profitable time to work with Parks Canada, as well as the beginning of the prescribed fire program.
Slowly but surely (14.19)
Michel is appreciative of the support that the province provided on fire prevention and suppression, without it being their mandate to do so. They used fire to replace plantations with natural forests.
The good old days (25.40)
Michel says that in the 1950s, logging companies managed much of the land, and fishing and hunting clubs thrived. Today, the pre-industrial forest is used as a baseline to guide the prescribed fire program.
Managing land the right way (32.24)
Michel highlights the values at risk to be factored in while planning a fire regime - climate change, new insects and diseases of the trees. He notes that we “have to be cautious of doing our best with the knowledge we have” and learn from First Nations land custodians.
Adaptive land management (39.04)
Michel explains that after the prescribed fire regime, treatment, pruning, and active planting take place. With practice, research, lessons from the USA, cooperation from multiple stakeholders, and learning from mistakes, the program is now starting to show progress.
Challenges and opportunities (48.11)
Michel points out that it is a tough balance between effective but intensive fires and controllable but weak fires. He plans his work according to the seasons, factoring in humidity, wind, climate and species responsiveness.
Developing connections for knowledge (1.03.47)
There are prescribed fire projects being developed in collaboration with local First Nations, based on the location and proximity, Michel says. He would like to see Parks Canada promote this knowledge sharing to inform future fire management plans.
Let’s talk about fire (1.15.18)
Elisabeth joined the prescribed fire program in 2016 and found that some people agreed with their work and some were opposed to it. She believes talking about the natural role of fire will help people feel engaged with the program.
“Be adaptive, be ready to fail and try something else” (1.27.05)
Michel says that understanding the fire regime, the landscape, and its fire history is important. He warns against impatience with results and the fear of failure in working with prescribed fire.
If you liked this podcast, please rate and review it, share it on Instagram and Facebook and tag a friend, and send your feedback and comments to yourforestpodcast@gmail.com.
On this podcast we often talk about managing the forest for ALL values, equally, in a way that benefits all interests. Community forests may hold some answers. How do engage the public in a meaningful way? How do we embody cultural, recreational, and environmental values in forest management? How do we do collaboration right? The good folks of Wells Gray Community Forest might have some answers.
Community Forests with George Brcko
Episode highlight
George Brcko speaks about the role of community forests in paving the way to a sustainable future.
Resources
Wells Gray Community Forest:
http://wgcfc.ca/wp/
Use of LIDAR for Forest Inventory and Forest Management Application: https://www.nrs.fs.fed.us/pubs/gtr/gtr_wo077/gtr_wo077_193.pdf
Sponsors
West Fraser: https://www.westfraser.com/
GreenLink Forestry Inc.: http://greenlinkforestry.com/
Damaged Timber: https://www.damagedtimber.com/
Giveaway
Enter YourForest10 at checkout at the Damaged Timber store for a 10% discount!
Quotes
30.18 - 30.26: “Bring the people back into the forest. They think that they’re separated from it and industry is the one that controls it. Well, that’s not the case.”
Takeaways
“Forestry is an incredibly complex career” (04.44)
George’s passion for forestry began in his childhood growing up on an Ontario farm. The slower and more connected community forest world helped him discover forestry’s spiritual ties to the natural world.
The intersection of science and spirituality (09.42)
George explains that community forests are small tenures held by communities, including indigenous communities across BC. The profits from forestry go back into studying the community’s forests.
By the people, of the people, for the people (17.25)
George’s community forest in Clearwater is one of 63 in BC. Collaboration with the First Nations community is essential in the management and profitability of community forests.
Bringing communities back into forestry (32.13)
George shares that the industry does purchase many resources from the activities of the community forests, and this generates revenue for communities to invest in their people.
The educational role of community forests (37.01)
Each community decides how they will manage their local forests based on their unique values and priorities, and are liable for the consequences. More than half have 50% indigenous ownership.
Playing with fire (40.25)
Fire management, says George, is a big concern for community forests and they put their effort into fuel management, burning techniques and retrieving burn areas.
We do need some education (45.00)
The outreach work done by the community forests includes public meetings, education sessions for citizens and children and awareness campaigns.
The Good Forest (47.44)
George is driven by the work he does because he has seen the worldwide good that surplus profits from community forestry can do.
Let’s do better, let’s go again (54.41)
George acknowledges the debates around clear-cutting and how he incorporates those in the work that he does. He has creates a public interface group to create awareness, educate and bridge gaps.
First Nations leading the way (1.14.33)
Some First Nations community forests even use the 7-generational model to study the impacts on the next 7 generations. Wells Gray Community Forest hopes to learn from the CFA’s which have FN leadership for this objective.
If you liked this podcast, please rate and review it, share it on Instagram and Facebook and tag a friend, and send your feedback and comments to yourforestpodcast@gmail.com.
What does reconciliation have to do with forestry? “It has everything to do with it.” - Garry Merkel. If we want to be stewards of the land we need to be able, and willing, to support those whose livelihoods and culture are dependent on it. In this episode, Garry opens his heart to us so that we may better understand our role as stewards and as people. His honesty and openness make him a true role model.
Episode highlight
Garry Merkel is a member of Tahltan First Nation and a Registered Professional Forester. He has spent his career helping to build First Nations governance. Here, he speaks about the history of Indigenous peoples in Canada, reconciliation with them, and learning how to care for the earth from them.
Resources
Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples Act (DRIPA): https://www2.gov.bc.ca/gov/content/governments/indigenous-people/new-relationship/united-nations-declaration-on-the-rights-of-indigenous-peoples
Sponsors
West Fraser: https://www.westfraser.com/
GreenLink Forestry Inc.: http://greenlinkforestry.com/
Damaged Timber: https://www.damagedtimber.com/
Giveaway
Enter YourForest10 at checkout at the Damaged Timber store for a 10% discount!
Quotes
20.07 - 20.22: “Spirituality means how do you take comfort and make sense out of the fact that you are infinitely small in a place you know nothing about and nothing about that is ever going to change.”
20.28 - 20.38: “We have such a deeply rooted fear of loneliness as a species, we’re the most gregarious thing we know of that has ever, ever existed.”
36.15 - 36.21: “The predator-prey relationship is one of the crucial parts that keeps the landscape in balance.”
45.47 - 45.54: “There’s always a segment of society that are just wilfully ignorant… that’s just the way it is.”
46.23 - 46.33: “The thing about racism and sexism and all those isms is every one of those comes from a very deeply rooted insecurity.”
56.36 - 56.38: “Nothing is good or bad in nature, nature just is what nature is.”
58.07 - 58.15: “Reconciliation is a very human process of us all understanding that we are all human and bringing things back to balance.”
Takeaways
How culture has been shaped (04.47)
Garry identifies as indigenous and points out that until recently, the indigenous community was marginalized and did not have a voice in Canada. He speaks about the indigenous community being a Fourth World Country - a Third World Country living in a First World Country. What inspired him to be involved in reconciliation work was the richness of culture that Canadians were missing out on by not participating in reconciliation with the indigenous.
How the relationship deteriorated (07.00)
Garry laments that people are not inspired to be involved in reconciliation because they don’t all know what it implies. He recounts that settlers first came to Canada for commerce, and their relationship with the indigenous was synergistic. The entire Metis Nation, a blended society, was formed. However, when Canada began to become a confederation, settlers began to view the indigenous as unfit for the new society.
The roots of systemic racism (09.60)
Garry highlights that the way of viewing indigenous peoples as less than settlers is the paradigm Canada was built on, and it is reflected in the treaties, laws, policies, and interactions with the indigenous since the beginning. Reconciliation is about righting those wrongs in every dimension of society by first understanding how systemic racism manifests in our interactions and eliminating it to bring about a more equal human relationship.
The indigenous were here long before the settlers called this their home (13.45)
Garry explains that indigenous peoples didn’t have the right to vote till recently. They were not allowed to leave the reserve without a permit. Indigenous populations still don’t own their reserves, since it is considered crown land. Sexism, along with racism, is also rampant in the treatment of the indigenous - an Indian woman loses her status if she marries a non-status person, but a non-status woman gains status if she marries a status Indian man.
Spirituality is a way to make sense of life (19.37)
Garry rates cultures based on how they derive comfort from spirituality. On one end of the spirituality, spectrum are control-based cultures that view humans as above nature and think of God as human-like. On the other end is a surrender-based approach of awe-inspired observation. Indigenous cultures are earth-based and define spirituality as their rooted relationship to land and nature, learning about human animals by observing non-human ones.
To think of anything as unnatural is a mistake (29.24)
Garry believes that people call things unnatural for 2 reasons - they feel superior and separate from nature therefore their actions to nature become unnatural, and because they don’t trust themselves to care for the planet so they don’t pay attention to their ecological footprint. The crux is in learning how to live with the land and its other inhabitants well. He shares anecdotes of working with indigenous communities and relearning their ethical relationship with the land.
Truth is a slippery slope (43.26)
Garry emphasizes the importance of learning about indigenous populations and about one’s own insecurities since all bias come from “building your strengths by trying to create weaknesses in others”. It takes pain, time, and effort to question one’s misbeliefs, dismantle one’s old character and learn to live with humaneness. He aspires to help everyone he comes across take off their blindfolds and build a broader, deeper, higher understanding of people.
Reconciliation is largely a human process (57.39)
Garry quotes Justice Murray Sinclair to explain that reconciliation does not work if one side believes it's some kind of recognition of rights and the other side believes it's a benevolent act. The path is to reconciliation is to introspect and face what people close to you may have done and find a way to equality and harmony. There are legal, technical, and political aspects to reconciliation, but a huge part of the journey is the human element of it.
Face your demons (1.01.04)
Land management evolves by people facing their own mistakes, recognizing the need for change, and coming up with new constructs to implement - on repeat! Garry advocates learning from indigenous people’s understanding of relationships to the land instead of defaulting to mass denial of problems. Through a philosophical evolution and societal paradigm shift to collaborative indigenous land management, we can relearn how to care for the land.
If you liked this podcast, please rate and review it, share it on Instagram and Facebook and tag a friend, and send your feedback and comments to yourforestpodcast@gmail.com.
If you could decide how our forests will be managed, what would you do? Would you make drastic changes? Who, or what would be informing those changes? Would it be politics? Science? Culture? History? Or maybe a combination of these things. Today, we are going to dig into one of these aspects. Our history, specifically the history of forest regeneration. This will provide some much-needed context for what should come next.
Episode highlight
Milo Mihajlovich speaks about the problems in forestry and their solutions - past, present and future.
Resources
The Lance and the Shield: The Life and Times of Sitting Bull: https://www.amazon.ca/Lance-Shield-Life-Times-Sitting/dp/0805012745
Crazy Horse: A Lakota Life: https://www.amazon.ca/Crazy-Horse-Mr-Kingsley-Bray/dp/0806139862/ref=asc_df_0806139862/?tag=googleshopc0c-20&linkCode=df0&hvadid=459574977763&hvpos=&hvnetw=g&hvrand=1179328204433988437&hvpone=&hvptwo=&hvqmt=&hvdev=c&hvdvcmdl=&hvlocint=&hvlocphy=9001251&hvtargid=pla-489096027991&psc=1
Sponsors
West Fraser: https://www.westfraser.com/
GreenLink Forestry Inc.: http://greenlinkforestry.com/
Damaged Timber: https://www.damagedtimber.com/
Giveaway
Enter YourForest10 at checkout at the Damaged Timber store for a 10% discount!
Quotes
25.19 - 25.38: “We have done better and better at reforestation. At the same time, we have tended to do a much less robust job of examining our assumptions and adjusting our assumptions to reflect learning.”
Takeaways
The way we were (06.43)
Milo shares that the structure of the bison on the great plains was not primarily a commercial enterprise, but a United States military plan to defeat the indigenous by destroying their cavalry. He also clarifies that regeneration standards in Alberta had not come into place in the 1990s, but much earlier, and explains the new paradigm of forest management that was emerging which involved reforesting and sustainable management.
Milo’s journey (17.06)
Milo worked with his father on the diameter limit - not cutting trees below a certain diameter. His uncle, who was a forest ranger, inspired him to enter the professional stream instead of the technical one. He discusses the models and agreements in place in the 1960s which led to better forest inventory. However, he laments not considering anthropology at the time or the importance of low-intensity fires.
The changing faces of the forest (28.41)
Milo’s most important work following his early years was to protect the forest from low-intensity fires. He also worked in silviculture and land reclamation. He breaks down the use of sequential surveys in regeneration. He worked in chemical herbicides when the regeneration standards were being redefined to include a performance requirement of the forest. He returned to forestry because he wanted to improve the forestry practices in Alberta.
Ground truth with statistical rigour (52.46)
Milo’s solution to some conflicting requirements of the performance standard was to discuss it with policy personnel. It was difficult to balance the free-growing conifers with maintaining wildlife habitats. The current regeneration standard in Alberta is now different and compares the present state to the assumptions made in the written forest management plan. However, the new challenge is that stakeholders want ecosystem services to be considered as well.
Risks of regeneration approaches (1.03.17)
Milo warns that some approaches to regeneration are risky because we don’t understand “the dynamics of how forests achieve the volumes that we harvest, especially mixed woods”. He expounds on the challenges of using tools in the management of mixed woods. Apart from that, there are also the myriad other footprints humans have on the landscape. However, now, it is possible to assess outcomes using computerized image collection and data manipulation.
True consultation and engagement (1.08.41)
Milo believes that consultation and engagement should not just be asking stakeholders what they want and including it in the plan, but to have them be a part of the planning and execution processes as well. When stakeholders see plan optimizations, there is a recognition of the “shifting mosaic of plant communities” and the associated ecosystem services. Stepping away from deterministic succession allows a discussion of plant community assembly.
Assembly theory (1.13.47)
Milo delineates the assembly theory as the assessment of the disturbance on a site and its impact on the plant community. He uses the examples of drought and caterpillars to explain how natural phenomena can cause disturbances. He used the assembly theory to build a habitat supply model, which can also become a platform for collaboration for the energy and forest industry, and their stakeholders.
Thinking things together (1.19.29)
Milo organized a workshop in partnership with the business facilitators at the Northern Alberta Institute of Technology (NAIT). 30 people were invited but the government was excluded. They presented the habitat supply model and had the attendees break out into focus groups with one representative from each industry to offer solutions. Milo believes that a triad approach would be the solution, even though there may be challenges on this path too.
The rocky road (1.28.50)
Milo lists the skepticism and criticism he has had to encounter, but is heartened that the conflict of opinions pushes everyone towards progress. He also looks back on the mistakes made in forest management - denying the value of fire, and assuming that forests were untouched by indigenous populations. In working with the indigenous, he has learned about their political structures and the “well-deserved resentment” they hold towards settlers.
Learning and personal growth (1.39.22)
Milo is of the opinion that to gain the trust of indigenous people, someone who has the knowledge of geography and psychology will have to be the neutral mediating third party. Energy companies support this approach but forestry companies don’t. He encourages the next generation of foresters to engage with reconciliation and make change the center of their approach. He says that when people feel empowered, they will continue to do this difficult work
If you liked this podcast, please rate and review it, share it on Instagram and Facebook and tag a friend, and send your feedback and comments to yourforestpodcast@gmail.com.
As land stewards, we spend most of our time discussing the hard science. If we take this action on the landscape how will that affect everything else? For today’s episode, we are stepping out of our comfort zone and into the mysterious and intimidating world of people. How do people’s views and relationship to nature change how we manage it? If we could adjust society’s perspective, how would that shift the outcomes of environmental management? Ultimately, how does sociology change things?
Your Forest Podcast by Matthew Kristoff
Environmental Sociology with John Parkins
Episode highlight
John Parkins speaks about the role of society in forestry and how meaningful engagement with indigenous communities is the future of land management.
Resources
John Parkins’ Profile: https://apps.ualberta.ca/directory/person/jparkins
fRi Research: https://friresearch.ca/sites/default/files/HLP_2019_03_EBM%20Dialogue_Paper_Final.pdf
Sponsors
West Fraser: https://www.westfraser.com/
GreenLink Forestry Inc.: http://greenlinkforestry.com/
Damaged Timber: https://www.damagedtimber.com/
Giveaway
Enter YourForest10 at checkout at the Damaged Timber store for a 10% discount!
Quotes
8.36 - 8.51: “We often think that... we can... get out there in the world when we are young and… we can change it, and I guess I realized that… changing the world is a lot more challenging than we think but... we also can make our own contributions in one way or another.”
17.16 - 17.27: “Pretty much every problem we are dealing with ultimately is a social problem... because .. [there] wouldn't be a problem unless humans came along and decided it was a problem.”
20.46 - 21.06: “A lot of times, the… controversies that we are dealing with, at the heart of it, involve scientists themselves who are disagreeing with each other... and they are doing that because they are looking at different elements of a very complex world out there and measuring things in different ways.”
1.02.18 - 1.02.29: “That’s, I think, a part of the decolonization process - we need indigenous leaders in key positions of leadership, we need indigenous leaders in our industries, we need them in the government, we need them at the university.”
Takeaways
“It was less about me choosing sociology and more about sociology choosing me” (4.25)
John worked in East Africa for 2 years and felt inspired to work internationally in poverty alleviation and rural development, which led him to develop an interest in issues around sustainability. He did a Master’s in Rural Sociology from the University of Alberta and then worked on social issues in forestry at the Canadian Forest Service. He now works in the Department of Resource Economics and Environmental Sociology at the university.
Society and forestry (10.42)
John explains that sociology is the study of groups and group experience, using social facts or contexts to explain social problems. Environmental sociologists are interested in the interaction between society and the natural world, bringing environmental variables and factors into an explanation of human behaviour. Environmental sociology in forestry explores the forest-society relationship through forest-based communities, community sustainability studies, and the like.
Every problem is a social problem (16.21)
John laments that many people in the resource sector don’t think about social contexts. While the scientific method can be used to achieve breakthroughs, the biggest challenge in this work is conflict resolution amongst competing views of disagreeing social groups with varied scientific positions. He cites the example of the lack of consensus on the definition of Ecosystem-Based Management (EBM) in Alberta.
Find a middle path or find the right answer (25.03)
John believes that to move forward from the conflict of competing scientific views, we need to find a middle path or experiment to find the right answer. Even though the government fears experiments going badly, trying small experiments on small blocks of land may uncover new possibilities. During his Ph.D., he attended public advisory committee meetings which asked the local forestry company to set aside some land as the control for the experiment to proceed.
Delinking of industry and community (31.55)
An example of a successful experiment in Canada on the social context of forestry is British Columbia’s 100+ community forests initiative. Communities take a long lease term on crown land, and through a local community board, manage the forest landscape based on their values, vision and benefits the community receives from doing so. Communities get to have a say in how industry uses the forests too.
Meaningful engagement with indigenous communities (42.52)
John highlights the need to have a meaningful form of engagement with indigenous communities. Meaningful consultation could mean developing meaningful relationships with trust, collaboration and shared values. However, John supports rooting the conversation in a decolonization context where indigenous communities have control over the decisions made for the land. However, not all indigenous communities agree with the consultation guidelines today.
Indigenous land management (47.40)
John believes indigenous consultation must go beyond dialogue to equity ownership in land and encourages experimentation to find a successful way to invite indigenous stakeholders as equal players in landscape management. He also emphasizes the need to manage the multiple values in forestry, factoring in conversations around indigenous forestry, decolonization in forestry and economic development through forest management.
Forestry’s way forward (1.01.34)
The University of Alberta is working to secure funds for a new faculty position in indigenous forestry. John hopes to see indigenous leaders drive the conversation for indigenous forestry and create the change they wish to see. Academic literature on indigenous management of conservation areas shows that such areas have better ecological values, and he believes that should be the way forward for forestry.
If you liked this podcast, please rate and review it, share it on Instagram and Facebook and tag a friend, and send your feedback and comments to yourforestpodcast@gmail.com.
Old Growth. What does that mean? How old is Old? How big is Big? How much is out there? How ecologically unique is it? And finally, how should we interact with it? It is one of the last natural remnants of a pre-industrialized society. Many relate it to the loss of the great barrier reefs or the shrinking Amazon rainforest. Why is there still so much conflict and how is it going to be resolved. What does the future of Sustainable Forest Management look like? Today, we seek some answers.
Your Forest Podcast by Matthew Kristoff
Old Growth with John Innes, Andy Mackinnon and Garry Merkel
Episode highlight
John Innes, Andy Mackinnon and Garry Merkel discuss the importance of old growth forests for ecosystem health.
Resources
A New Future For Old Forests: https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/farming-natural-resources-and-industry/forestry/stewardship/old-growth-forests/strategic-review-20200430.pdf
BC’s Old Growth Forest: https://sierraclub.bc.ca/wp-content/uploads/bcs-old-growth-forest-a-last-stand-for-biodiversity-report-2020.pdf
Review Panel Old Growth Strategy: https://www2.gov.bc.ca/assets/gov/farming-natural-resources-and-industry/forestry/stewardship/old-growth-forests/written-submissions/020_anton-van-walraven.pdf
Sponsors
West Fraser: https://www.westfraser.com/
GreenLink Forestry Inc.: http://greenlinkforestry.com/
Damaged Timber: https://www.damagedtimber.com/
Giveaway
Enter YourForest10 at checkout at the Damaged Timber store for a 10% discount!
Quotes
39.48 - 40.02: “Even if the climate weren’t changing, which it most assuredly is, it would probably take you... 1000 or 1500 years to begin to approach the structure of the forest that you’d logged in the first place.”
50.02 - 50.36: “There... [is] a younger generation that is coming through that hopefully will not address biodiversity as being a constraint or maintaining the soil as being a constraint or maintaining clean water supplies as a constraint, they will see these as ecosystem services that simply have to be provided and that the timber that you can maybe get from a forest is the return on the capital that you are investing.”
1.02.35 - 1.02.59: “Our whole way that we learn about forest management right now is from the perspective that forests exist for the benefit of humans, that is our perspective. We don’t... look at them as intrinsic values. We are very self-centred as a species: everything is here for us and - What can we take? How can we maximize the benefit from it?”
Takeaways
Andy’s story (6.26)
Andy has worked as a forest ecologist since the 1980s and has been involved with ecosystem classification and mapping, and forest research projects characterizing the differences in structure, function and composition of old growth and second growth forests in BC. He has chaired the research and inventory for BC’s old growth strategy and is an advocate of the need to change land use and forest management in the province.
John’s story (9.15)
John grew up in Scotland and served in the forestry commission, worked in Switzerland for 7 years then moved to BC in 1999, where he is now the Chair of Forest Management at UBC. He has worked on many forest management issues such as the relationships between forestry companies, the government and First Nations. He has advocated for the use of science in decision and policymaking. The variety of opinions got him interested in the old growth debate.
Garry’s story (14.23)
Garry’s work has been around leveraging land ecology to empower communities to “envision and shape their own futures”. His work in old growth is geared towards managing old growth to ensure the health of the land and the ecosystem. He defines old growth as the stage and age of an ecosystem, be it grassland, marine complex or forest, that has evolved in richness and complexity over time.
Not fine to define (22.56)
Andy recalls the time when they were grappling with finding the right definition for old growth in the 1990s. They wanted a universally understood definition that could be used for statistics too. Using strictly age-based definitions runs into conflict with inventory-based definitions; neither paint an accurate picture of the ecosystem by themselves. That is compounded by the fact that many lower productivity old growth forests are in protected areas.
“You can’t grow old growth” (29.54)
Garry explains that iconic ecosystems have spiritual and cultural values associated with them. When components of old growth are lost, so are species and critical functions in the landscape, giving way to the risk of biodiversity loss and disease susceptibility, the maximum risk being at 30% loss of old components. His team suggests deferring harvesting in areas where very few rich ecosystems are left since old growth is not renewable after conventional clear-cutting.
A light touch on the landscape (34.25)
Garry outlines the differences between the Natural Disturbance Types (NDTs) in various ecosystems. His trick is to use silviculture systems that mimic NDTs and to keep 70% of old growth in a landscape - a paradigm shift he is advocating for. John has noticed a willingness in forestry workers to change their approach, though economists may discourage it. He wonders how to implement these changes in the least disruptive way for maximum progress.
Benefits, not the volume of timber (52.25}
Andy shares that legislation clearly states that business interests have to be balanced with ecological ones. The land-use plans of larger ecosystems are informed by the risk percentage Garry mentioned. Since land is a public resource, he believes that treaty settlements need to be in place for the revenue and jobs from these to be passed on fairly forward across generations. One consideration is the generation of revenue from the forest without logging it.
Who decides what is the best use of land? (1.00.57)
In his review with Al Gorley, Garry recommended that the First Nations in BC be more directly involved in making decisions about the land. They have created a system to accommodate the required cut-offs in important metrics, factoring in the constraints. He laments that land management has become a fight for the most concessions, without any invested thinking into land health. Education and increased understanding of proper land management are needed.
Land, people, collective wisdom, community (1.09.39)
Garry and Al found value in working with indigenous communities, translating the land ethic into land management systems using innovative and practical approaches. He hopes this can be applied at the provincial level in land policy to look at land as a whole, and not manage 1000-year-old ecosystems on 4-year political cycles. Indigenous communities can teach others how to build appropriate systems to connect with and look after the land.
“Forestry isn’t rocket science; it’s way more complex than that” (1.19.44)
John acknowledges that current forestry education is “still very much old school”, with competencies defined by the professional associations. He and Garry have been working on creating an undergraduate program that imparts necessary skills and knowledge. Andy highlights the complexity of forest management, while Garry notes that managing forests has become more about “translating public expectations into the way our forests look”.
“Liars figure and figures lie” (1.27.46)
Andy brings to attention the fact that influential people in important positions don’t always agree with the need for change. Provincial governments and indigenous people need to take the lead in enabling change. He discusses generating employment and revenue without logging forests. Garry warns against statistics presented to bring forth a certain point of view, and how that influences public opinion and business strategy.
“If you don’t know what’s out there, how can you possibly manage it well?” (1.36.24)
John supports a good quality inventory as a way to better manage land use, and Garry suggests a proper classification of old growth for managing the ecosystem. Andy shares the different approaches to creating a professional inventory. Garry recommends factoring in indexes of biodiversity and connectivity along with other metrics. Involving the wisdom of indigenous communities is important since this is “not purely a science exercise”.
We have protected areas because we can’t trust ourselves to look after them (1.44.25)
Garry advises intensive land management be driven by ecosystem health, using zoning to help us reach the desired state. Andy believes that silvicultural systems should be designed so that the regenerated forest “isn’t 100% different in all aspects from the forests we cut down in the first place”. Garry shares examples of when proper land management has restored the richness of the ecosystem.
Old growth is a critical flashpoint (1.55.19)
John predicts that climate change is going to lead to an increase in serious forest fires in the interiors, whereas coastal Allowable Annual Cut (AAC) will reduce. Andy is of the opinion that the inherent value of an ecosystem is separate from human value. Garry explains that any approach other than one made considering old growth’s importance in ecosystem health will lead to catastrophe.
We Shall overcome (2.06.08)
John sees the path forward as being led by indigenous peoples managing the land, even though there will be differences in how each indigenous community wants to use it. Garry and Al’s recommendations to the government have been adopted, and many First Nations organizations have passed resolutions to support them. He believes the transition to applying the suggestions is the hard part, but with adequate support, it can be done.
If you liked this podcast, please rate and review it, share it on Instagram and Facebook and tag a friend, and send your feedback and comments to yourforestpodcast@gmail.com.
What makes a forest? Is it the trees? The animals? The plants? The soil? A forest is the connection between all these things. What makes it exciting is all the possibilities it holds. One such possibility is its capacity to feed and nourish us. And it may be one possibility that most people haven’t fully taken advantage of. Kevin Kossowan is passionate about wild food and helping people to see the potential natural places hold to nourish us, both physically and mentally. We talked wild food, artistic expression, perspectives, simplicity, taking advantage of what’s convenient, and much more.
Your Forest Podcast by Matthew Kristoff
From The Wild with Kevin Kossowan
Episode highlight
Kevin Kossowan of the TV show, From The Wild, speaks about using local ingredients to create elevated culinary experiences and develop a meaningful connection with the planet we inhabit.
Resources
Kevin’s website: http://www.kevinkossowan.com/
From The Wild: https://www.fromthewild.ca/
Les Stroud’s Wild Harvest: https://wildharvestfilms.com/
Sponsors
West Fraser: https://www.westfraser.com/
GreenLink Forestry Inc.: http://greenlinkforestry.com/
Damaged Timber: https://www.damagedtimber.com/
Giveaway
Enter YourForest10 at checkout at the Damaged Timber store for a 10% discount!
Enter “yourforest” when you buy Episode 3 Understorey in Season 6 of From The Wild on Vimeo to purchase it for FREE!
Quotes
12.04 - 12.16: “There’s lots of things in life - cookery is one of them - where sometimes the more you keep it simple, the more profound the experience for… folks. The more you intervene, the more it waters it down.”
38.06 - 38.11: “For most of our evolution, our life has been centered around food because we had to.”
41.56 - 42.04: “A danger in scaring people off from that connectivity is implying that every meal you always have has to be some profoundly connective... wild food.”
42.38 - 42.48: “Bringing food connection in your life, I think... shouldn’t be binary, 0 and 1, it should be some type of gradient that... fits well into your life.”
50.04 - 50.09: “Community building isn’t something that we've done a really great job of teaching people how to do.”
57.20 - 57.29: “Corporations are... like service robots. If we ask something different of them, they'll do something different.”
Takeaways
Outdoor kitchen/educational facility (6.56)
Kevin operates on a piece of land in the margins of the boreal forest near Edmonton, to teach people about the life that grows and lives there, and connect them to the food of that area through multi-course chef-made meals. With a wood library, the use of plastic is scarce. Kevin discourages using urban accouterments in this rustic space, and to enjoy the forest as is.
Fine dining in a forest (12.57)
The food served at Kevin’s kitchen is elevated and plated with talent, aimed to make people think holistically about local food and take them away from “bagged food”. This helps them experience a profound connection to the ecosystem, space, and others they are hunting or foraging with. It also reveals many hitherto unknown yet delicious ingredients to play with!
Flavours of the forest (20.48)
Kevin shares that his show, From The Wild, is “very undesigned” since nature’s plan supersedes any other. It documents him and his friends exploring the forest. He laments that food has become too much about convenience, but his show uncovers new ground in food. He has built an extensive knowledge base of local ingredients over 8+ years of filming.
Not wild, just non-agricultural (30.16)
Kevin was exposed to fine dining in Europe and returned home wanting to learn more and expand his skill set. He became involved in the local food movement - writing blogs, sourcing high-quality ingredients, reinventing his cooking, gardening, and hunting. He prefers the word ‘local’ to speak of ingredients found in the community of flora and human and non-human fauna.
Food is life (34.09)
Kevin enjoys the culinary exploration of different seasons and locations in the sourcing of local food. Those food experiences are stacked with “actual memories and visceral life experiences”, which shopping at a grocery store doesn’t provide. There is also a higher level of trust and transparency in the connections developed with local food growers.
You’re missing the meaning (37.59)
Kevin highlights that when we are disconnected from our food, “we give up some power about our confidence in making our way around this planet”. Becoming independent from corporations helps regain inner strength, confidence, and mental health. However, he warns against being a puritan about “wild” food, and that starting small with simple steps is enough, and easy!
What would make you treat nature more kindly? (48.59)
Kevin’s most valuable experience in the world of food has been the community he has formed sharing knowledge and feedback. His passion to connect people to the source of food drives his efforts to take people for foraging walks, outside of his media career, to develop cultural attachments that inform their engagements with the forest and its residents.
Industry impacts nature and the ecosystem (56.54)
Kevin encourages listeners to make better choices as consumers and vote with their dollars to influence corporations to provide differently. By educating ourselves and getting involved with causes we care about, we can make a difference. While forestry has been a conflicted space, he believes, “it is easier for a forester to see the forest for the trees”.
What am I leaving when I’m done here? (1.17.56)
Kevin has a multi-generational ecological approach in understanding the cultural awareness and paradigms his grandparents and other ancestors grew up with and the politically environmental legacy he is leaving his children. His show explores some difficult realities of how humans treat the rest of the planet, and how we are answerable for what we do to public land.
Social responsibility is a moving target (1.33.09)
Kevin acknowledges that what is considered socially responsible changes from time to time, based on the current value system. It is also important to remember that the alleged “big bad corporations” have humans in those seats who are trying to do their jobs. Kevin has also encountered anti-foragers who believe foraging deprives other species of those plants.
Stay connected! (1.40.36)
Kevin believes that connectivity to nature is important to feel inspired to care for it, but how much interaction is good is up for debate. Join him in uncovering many more such issues in Season 7 of From the Wild. Also check out Season 6 Episode 3, Understory, which delves into the forestry world.
If you liked this podcast, please rate and review it, share it on Instagram and Facebook and tag a friend, and send your feedback and comments to yourforestpodcast@gmail.com.
Nature. What is it? Where does Nature end and Human-made begin? Where do we draw the line? Why would we draw the line? Questions like this keep Philosopher Dr. Martin Bunzl busy. Martin says the point of philosophy is to get us to question our assumptions. By questioning our assumptions, we are able to re-imagine our reality and dig deeper into the truth. By challenging our most fundamental pre-conceived notions of nature, and our relationship with it, we might discover a deeper meaning, and perhaps some answers to our most challenging questions.
Your Forest Podcast by Matthew Kristoff
Philosophy of Nature with Martin Bunzl
Episode highlight
Martin Bunzl, Professor Emeritus of Philosophy, Rutgers University and author of several books including the latest, Thinking While Walking - Reflections on the Pacific Crest Trail, explores philosophical arguments around the ‘naturalness’ of nature and the role of humans in it.
Resources
Martin’s website: https://sites.google.com/site/mbunzl/
Martin’s book ‘Thinking While Walking - Reflections on the Pacific Crest Trail’: https://www.amazon.com/Thinking-while-Walking-Reflections-Pacific/dp/0578882221/ref=tmm_pap_swatch_0?_encoding=UTF8&qid=1628459781&sr=1-3
Judith Jarvis Thomson: A Defense of Abortion: https://spot.colorado.edu/~heathwoo/Phil160,Fall02/thomson.htm
Sponsors
West Fraser: https://www.westfraser.com/
GreenLink Forestry Inc.: http://greenlinkforestry.com/
Damaged Timber: https://www.damagedtimber.com/
Giveaway
Enter YourForest10 at checkout at the Damaged Timber store for a 10% discount!
Quotes
8.37 - 8.44: “The goal of philosophy is the substitution of articulate hesitation for inarticulate certainty.” - Bertrand Russell
12.03 - 12.23: “I want discourse to be informed by a level of mutual uncertainty which I think can allow us to arrive at a more productive consensus about the policy questions we face and again, nowhere is that more true than when it comes to climate change.”
21.44 - 22.17: “We have a romantic view of forests and trees and we have a condemnatory view of technological developments like engineered crops or mechanical efforts to remove carbon dioxide from the atmosphere and I think this kind of binary between what we think of as the natural or the good versus the man-made and the bad distorts the way we think about the challenges we face today, not only with regard to climate but with regard to the natural world in general.”
43.34 - 43.52: “The calculus of what we can do when we think about climate change from the point of view of privilege in which we have excess wealth distorts the choice that faces 6.5 billion people in the world out of 7.8 billion who don’t have excess wealth.”
47.29 - 47.40: “The more we are individuals and alienated from our communities, the harder it is to... engage in behaviour that is not selfish.”
Takeaways
Hesitate to be certain (4.57)
After completing his Ph.D. in the philosophy of science at the University of Minnesota, Martin taught philosophy for 40 years at Rutgers University. He has been attempting to analyze the catastrophic risk of climate change since 2008. His book intends to make readers question their assumptions and the things they take for granted with respect to climate change and ecology.
To stroll or to hike, that is the question (14.07)
Martin makes a distinction in the book between strolling, which is conducive to creative thinking, and hiking, which “to some extent, dulls the mind”. Each chapter is a meditation on a certain section of the Pacific Crest Trail (PCT). Hiking the PCT would not have lent him the same focus and opportunity to engage with nature as strolling did.
Natural, good; human-made; bad? (19.09)
Martin laments that the philosophy of nature is a neglected subject since nature is too wide and complex for modern analytic philosophers to articulate on and our relationship with nature is overlaid with assumptions of what is natural. He traces the historical roots of the binary discourse on natural vs. human-made and how that informs our understanding of the subject.
“This idea of freezing nature is profoundly unnatural” (23.09)
Martin explains that environmental science considers humans a part of nature, including the plastic pollution we create. A pure image of nature excludes human lives from it, as evidenced by John Muir’s displacement of indigenous people to create Yosemite National Park, an artificially curated experience of nature.
Romanticizing the ‘natural’ (25.41)
Martin acknowledges that our concept of nature is shaped by the experiences we grew up in. He speaks about the extinction of large mammals due to overhunting and the burning of forests in North America even before the arrival of Columbus. Most plants in Hawaii are what would be considered ‘invasive’ today and have floated across the ocean to it.
Are there ‘shoulds’ in nature? (31.20)
Martin challenges the concept of a ‘duty to nature’ as an anthropocentric moral discourse, and claims that nature does not have an interest in existing and warns against ascribing ethical standing to all components of nature if they cannot be given the same rights as humans. He believes that overpopulation is inversely related to economic and environmental wellbeing.
The curse of magical thinking (40.01)
Martin blames Al Gore for deceiving the public about having a risk-free, no-cost alternative by stating in 2008 that if we tried, we could be a fossil-free economy in 8 years. This “first world discourse that frames debates about climate” ignores the limitations of those in poverty. Only when people collectively demand that politicians address climate change will progress occur.
Generational gratification (46.47)
Martin highlights the intergenerational connection in forest management, where trees planted by one person will only be available after two generations to the population that continues to live there. “Self-interest with high-blown discussions” ignores the processes of nature. He encourages respect and humility to lead to treading carefully in nature.
The zen notion of nature (53.39)
Martin encourages thinking about life as one organism of which we are spatially separated but interconnected parts, which began when life began in the universe and will end when all life goes extinct. This may help in reducing generalizations and self-interest by extending the definition of self to all of nature.
If you were a chair… (56.52)
Martin discusses the source of value of an organism and the right value to assign it, a philosophically difficult problem to solve. A human-centered analysis outlines some values that promote the maximum collective wellbeing of all organisms that have moral standing, determined by their sentience.
The jiu-jitsu move (1.01.41)
Martin explains that philosophy plays a process role in questioning the assumptions two parties take for granted before indulging in discourse, which can also help in arriving at the exact opposite conclusion as one’s opponent. However, philosophy can settle an argument too, by invalidating two inconsistent statements.
Climate change is like nuclear destruction (1.05.07)
For events without a history, it is difficult to calculate the risk or probability of a catastrophic outcome, Martin notes. Taking a stand from an individual as well as a public policy perspective calls for conceptual and mathematical thinking. The concentration of greenhouse gases in the atmosphere today could spell doom if it increased every year.
Step back just enough (1.10.17)
Martin calls for examining the notion of ‘protecting nature’ and the way in which it is done. Humans cannot know the consequences of customizing nature and therefore, “the best course of action for us is to leave the world no worse off than we find it”. However, we needn’t live by the ‘precautionary principle’ of inaction either.
Did you rationalize an emotion and call it a fact? (1.14.18)
Martin points out that we are under the illusion that our conscious brain is in control of ourselves. He cites Jonathan Haidt’s research mapping the areas of the brain that are involved in responding to visuals, showing that the crude parts of the brain kick in before cognitive functioning does.
Nature is better understood as a cultural project (1.17.23)
Humans also deny the social development of our cognitive content. Individualistic cultures are at risk of acting destructively in nature. However, Martin is of the opinion that “human beings are an inventive species” and investing in the technical approaches to solve nature’s problems can bring hope for a solution.
If you liked this podcast, please rate and review it, share it on Instagram and Facebook and tag a friend, and send your feedback and comments to yourforestpodcast@gmail.com.
As stewards of the land, it is the duty of all environmental professionals to look after all forest values forever. We have gotten good at managing for plants and animals, water, and recreation. Unfortunately, Indigenous values have been left behind. Indigenous people have been left behind. The only way we can properly account for Indigenous values and needs is to understand where they come from and what they have been through. We must look into the dark depths of Canada’s past and accept it for what it is. Perhaps when we all understand we can seek to forge a new path forward together. If we want forest management to succeed, we need Indigenous people to succeed. Let’s start by hearing their story.
Your Forest Podcast by Matthew Kristoff
Honouring Truth with Michael Gubbels
Episode highlight
Michael Gubbels shares the history of Indigenous peoples in Canada and the ways in which non-indigenous people can be allies in the journey towards truth and reconciliation.
Resources
The Story of A National Crime by P. H. Bryce: https://www.amazon.ca/Story-National-Crime-Classic-Reprint/dp/1397731877/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&gclid=Cj0KCQjw0emHBhC1ARIsAL1QGNcwr5dAtqYafPdHkAaxTuLIEA8xEwwoQfpFIkO3MO5hzYwZgfdAvSUaAiaIEALw_wcB&hvadid=231246495818&hvdev=c&hvlocphy=9061281&hvnetw=g&hvqmt=e&hvrand=13170726457531781699&hvtargid=kwd-407004869754&hydadcr=10144_9613689&keywords=the+story+of+a+national+crime&qid=1627082477&sr=8-1
Dr. Gabor Maté’s theories: https://drgabormate.com/
Truth and Reconciliation Commission of Canada - Calls to Action: http://trc.ca/assets/pdf/Calls_to_Action_English2.pdf
United Nations Declaration on the Rights of Indigenous Peoples: https://www.un.org/development/desa/indigenouspeoples/declaration-on-the-rights-of-indigenous-peoples.html
Sponsors
West Fraser: https://www.westfraser.com/
GreenLink Forestry Inc.: http://greenlinkforestry.com/
Damaged Timber: https://www.damagedtimber.com/
Giveaway
Enter YourForest10 at checkout at the Damaged Timber store for a 10% discount!
Quotes
29.37 - 30.15: “A lot of... international organizations... United Nations, academic organizations, corporations, companies... they are realizing this more and more that there is such a benefit to partnering with indigenous peoples, to working with them in their cultures, in areas of biodiversity conservation, balancing development.”
31.30 - 31.38: “The simplicity in hearing the wind is medicine; smelling the trees and the plants, it’s medicine.”
1.02.16 - 1.02.33: “Love, compassion, determination - those 3 things will change the world.”
1.48.00 - 1.48.16: “Sometimes, when people criticize, it says more about them than it does about me... It says more about where they are coming from and how they see the world, and I don't need to… take all that on because I believe in myself and I know I’m doing the best I can.”
2.00.00 - 2.00.06: “Mother Earth gives to us freely, so we are to give to each other freely and to the earth freely.”
Takeaways
“From your heart to your head” (13.25)
Michael acknowledges indigenous people for sharing this land which is the source of our livelihood and the lives of all organisms. At age 12, when he first found out that he was Métis on his mother’s side, he was ashamed because he had grown up in the prairies with myths and misconceptions about indigenous people. At 22, he joined the Aboriginal Student Union in hopes of a scholarship but ended up learning about and loving his culture.
“Don’t just pray with your mind, pray with your heart” (19.22)
Michael shares his experience at a sweat lodge, where he learned the power of praying alongside others, and the resilience and strength prayer can bestow on you. He worked with elders to learn more about praying and even manifested the woman of his dreams through sincere, humble prayer. He is grateful for the beauty and wisdom he has discovered in his culture through the teachings shared by elders.
From shame to connectedness (31.30)
Michael encourages others like him to look beyond the negative messaging they have grown up with, and learn about indigenous cultures with an open mind and heart. He is mindful that residential schools, RCMP officials and priests taught children to be ashamed of their culture, history and ancestry and tore them away from the elders and sources of knowledge. Other government measures and like banning ceremonies and impoverishment reinforced the shame.
Residential schools more dangerous than World War I (43.18)
Michael recommends the book The Story of A National Crime by P. H. Bryce, which exposes the countless deaths in residential schools due to dangerously unhealthy conditions. When the children were living in their own homes, they led healthier lives than even settlers’ children. The schools were rife with medical experiments, assaults and sexual abuse. There are many more hidden graves of children yet to be uncovered for the truth to be revealed.
Intergenerational trauma (56.44)
Michael quotes Dr. Gabor Maté’s theory on trauma, addiction, stress and childhood development to explain why residential school survivors took to addictions to escape their realities and numb their pain, loneliness and depression and passed on the trauma through their familial generations due to lack of healing opportunities. Elders teach that it will take fewer generations to heal if we create a safe, understanding and compassionate society.
All Canadians are my brothers and sisters (1.03.51)
Michael believes that people “try to do the best they can with what they have” and that those who are ignorant of indigenous issues have just not received the correct teachings. Reconciliation is about “no shame, no blame, no guilt” so a space to share the truth and grow in a community is needed. By modelling compassion, love and determination, people can be taught to undo their biases, which can lead to the resolution of many other issues in society.
When a language dies, a university worth of knowledge is lost (1.17.32)
Michael highlights some First Nations are in danger of losing their cultures because of the dwindling numbers of language speakers. Some Nations have mandated that all their members learn one new word a day, which, in a few years, will ensure that most people can speak the language fluently. He hopes that the government and all Canadian citizens support such initiatives which will benefit the children, economy, environment and international reputation.
“It’s hard but it’s simple” (1.20.04)
Michael claims that “evolution isn’t survival of the fittest, it’s the species that can adapt most to change”, and urges listeners to live with love, compassion and determination to adapt. There are many ways to contribute to the cause and be an ally, but the underlying goal should be making indigenous voices heard instead of being a voice for them. He encourages us to be curious, patient and unafraid of making mistakes in this journey as long as we are respectful.
Love is humility, giving, listening, forgiving (1.39.43)
Michael says that success at any initiative is the tip of the iceberg, and it hides the many failures on which it rests. The path of truth and growth is easier to walk on with love, compassion and determination and it will change your life and the world in a good way. Love is a conscious journey, not a destination, and it can help attract and cultivate the love, hope and willingness to change and improve that we wish to see in the community.
“Truth has so much trauma” (1.47.30)
Michael suggests being kind to yourself when someone criticizes you and showing empathy for their hurt. He asks us to question if our messaging is imbued with love or fear and to face the fears to let love shine through and energize courage to uncover the truth. When people are afraid to live in truth, it can have dangerous consequences for them and the world. “Indigenous cultures see Canada as a family”, and want everyone to rise up in truth together.
If you liked this podcast, please rate and review it, share it on Instagram and Facebook and tag a friend, and send your feedback and comments to yourforestpodcast@gmail.com.
We ask a lot of our forests. We demand food, water, and wood for shelter, but we also ask it to be natural, biodiverse, healthy, and ever-lasting. To many, these things seem at odds. How could we extract resources while maintaining healthy and sustainable ecosystems? With extensive research, forethought, and the right tools we can balance all these values at once. Albeit that balance often treads the knifes edge. This is why we need every proven tool at our disposal to assist us with that balance. Herbicides may be one of these tools. To find out how it measures up we speak to ecologists and researchers about its ecological impact in the long term. We must follow the science if we want all values to persist. No values have to suffer if all values are considered equal.
Your Forest Podcast by Matthew Kristoff
Glyphosate and Biodiversity with John Nash and Matthew Olson
Episode highlight
John Nash and Matthew Olson discuss the use, effects and ecological impact of herbicides in forest management citing research studies and sharing popular opinions on the same.
Resources
Episode 60 - Pesticides with Ryan Prosser: https://yourforestpodcast.com/episode-1/2019/4/6/0nmjhtlqmqqcjm7289suub61vaxodq
New Herbicide Study findings and Field Tour Guide https://fgrow.friresearch.ca/herbicidefacts
The Austin Pond Study: https://www.academia.edu/29076147/Midrotation_response_of_ground_vegetation_to_herbicide_and_precommercial_thinning_in_the_Acadian_Forest_of_Maine_USA
Effects of herbicide treatments on biotic components in regenerating northern forests: Lautenschlager, R.A. and Sullivan, Thomas P. https://maineforest.org/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/Effects-of-herbicide-treatments-on-biotic-components.pdf
Shannon-Wiener Index of Diversity: https://www.encyclopedia.com/earth-and-environment/ecology-and-environmentalism/environmental-studies/shannon-wiener-index-diversity
Ecosystem Management Emulating Natural Disturbance. EMEND Study: https://emend.ualberta.ca
Sponsors
West Fraser: https://www.westfraser.com/
GreenLink Forestry Inc.: http://greenlinkforestry.com/
Damaged Timber: https://www.damagedtimber.com/
Giveaway
Enter YourForest10 at checkout at the Damaged Timber store for a 10% discount!
Quotes
17.51 - 18.02: “We have to practise sound ecologically based management in our forests and woodlands to ensure that there is a resource not only for present generations but also for future generations.” (Matthew Olson)
1.08.25 - 1.08.34: “I think everybody in the forest industry... that would be their end goal, is to try and emulate as much as possible what's going on naturally in the environment.” (John Nash)
1.21.55 - 1.22.15: “As foresters, we’re always trying to have a positive impact... on the environment. We want to consider... biodiversity, we want to consider habitat, because foresters, I think, are just as big users of the forest as anybody else... and have as much respect for the forest as anybody else”. (John Nash)
Takeaways
Forestry: “As much a creative outlet as it is a career path” (10.10)
Olson is Assistant Professor of Environmental Science teaching the forestry classes at Stockton University in New Jersey, USA. He grew up pursuing many activities in the woods and has always thought of them as welcoming recreational spaces. He wants to ensure that forests are cared for, healthy and can provide recreational opportunities to others too. He enjoys teaching about forests to his students and making them engaged in forestry.
Jack of all trades (12.53)
Nash is a Forest Ecologist with GreenLink Forestry. He had always enjoyed the forests in Northern Ontario and Manitoba, and his father was a hard rock geologist, in whose footsteps he followed for 15 years. After having a family, he changed his major to environmental studies and biology and was mentored by Jeff Wang. Nash enjoys the multidisciplinary aspect of ecology and increasing his knowledge about many different disciplines under ecology.
Respecting the various demands on forests (17.12)
Olson points out that along with being recreational, the woods also provide wood products. His focus is on extracting timber from forests and woodlands in a way that “doesn’t undercut our ability to meet present and future needs” and keeps ecosystems healthy for all. Nash comments that industrial and recreational pressures on forests need to be balanced, and that forest management is an important aspect of fire management.
First thoughts on herbicides (22.54)
Growing up in New Jersey, Olson thought herbicides were only applied in yards and farmlands, not the woods, and only learnt about herbicide application in vegetation management at university. He was concerned about their use, but his mind was opened by Dr. Robert Wagner, who used a rigorous experimental framework to explain the pros and cons of herbicide technology. Nash had not heard much about herbicides being contentious till recently.
Olson and The Austin Pond Study (26.55)
In his post-doctoral research, Olson was introduced to The Austin Pond Study (long-term effects of herbicide and precommercial thinning treatments on species composition, stand structure, and net present value in spruce-fir stands in Maine) and worked on long-term data sets of silviculture studies to evaluate long-term consequences in the woods. He has been involved with the new experimental design overlays and new treatments of The Austin Pond Study.
Herbicides and biodiversity (30.33)
Nash was involved in a similar study in the early 2000s but it had more of a focus on the impacts of herbicides on trees. The study he is involved in now has a focus on biodiversity, collecting information about lower vegetation. He investigated if herbicides affect sites in any way in the long term using many biodiversity indicators to understand the impact of herbicides on soil properties. Olson, too, used biodiversity as a way to evaluate the impact on soil.
Differences in herbicide-treated and untreated areas (38.40)
In his study, Nash found no significant differences between the areas that had herbicide application and those that didn’t, other than there was much more feather moss in the undertreated areas. Olson discusses that glyphosate was tested in the Austin Pond study, and 20-30 years later, the treated areas were conifer-dominated, while the untreated areas were deciduous-dominated, but there weren’t any other effects seen in the soil.
Pre-research and post-research differences of opinion (43.46)
Nash wasn’t biased towards any outcome of herbicides before beginning his study. Olson had noticed during The Austin Pond Study that sprayed areas had lower diversity and unsprayed areas had rich floors. However, in his later study, he found that areas that had precommercial thinning had the highest richness in diversity and cover, irrespective of herbicide application. Both explain that glyphosate does not last long in the soil and breaks down into non-toxic forms.
What glyphosate really does (53.18)
Olson highlights that glyphosates are more selective against aspen than against maple and that areas were sampled extensively to have definitive data. Nash found that there was a 5% difference in cover on average with 3 indicator species, and there were some differences in earlier flora. Olson is interested in doing a follow-up study to investigate the life cycle aspects of the plants.
Additional perspectives (1.06.28)
Nash believes that long-term data following forest fires would be valuable to integrate into the current studies. Olson shares that not just the intensity of burns but different factors of the burns will predict future outcomes of the forest. He wants to broaden the spectrum of different management intensities, including areas where ecological forest management and silviculture are being applied. Nash refers to some such studies being done in the southeastern states.
The fluctuations in biodiversity (1.10.55)
Nash explains that biodiversity can be investigated by seeing if herbicides inhibited vegetation or stopped the competing vegetation enough to support the desired vegetation. Chemical analyses and accounting for micro variants in the soil must be done for this. Olson claims that affecting the forest composition and structure may have habitat impacts that are detrimental to some species and beneficial to others. The Austin Pond study is being revamped to do this.
Nash and Olson on herbicides (1.21.33)
Nash is of the opinion that most people understand they are having an impact on the environment, and those who enjoy the forest have a lot of respect for it. He supports the use of herbicides in forest management. Olson laments that people think forests are not impacted by humans, and they have negative perceptions about applying herbicides to manage forests. He has seen more positive effects of herbicides than negative.
The advantages of forest management (1.29.41)
One of the advantages of forest management and silviculture is that we can increase crop rotation and supply the economy with more wood, Nash says. Olson mentions the control of the government on crown land and offers that producing the same amount of timber on a smaller acreage can free up some other areas for different uses while maintaining the same ecological function on those areas. Forest management is a mitigation strategy to manage climate change and protect biodiversity.
If you liked this podcast, please rate and review it, share it on Instagram and Facebook and tag a friend, and send your feedback and comments to yourforestpodcast@gmail.com.
How does music impact your life? Does it make you happy or sad, giddy, or intense? Does it make you relax or reflect on life? Does it change the way you think about and relate to reality? It does all those things for me. So, I wanted to explore the intersection between art and science and how one can make us think differently about the other. Ben Cosgrove’s art is inspired by nature and our relationship with it, so who better to speak to.
Your Forest Podcast by Matthew Kristoff
The Trouble With Wilderness with Ben Cosgrove
Episode highlight
Ben Cosgrove is a travelling composer-performer whose music explores themes of landscape, place, and environment. He has held artist residencies and fellowships with institutions including the National Park Service, the National Forest Service, Harvard University, Middlebury College, the Schmidt Ocean Institute, and the Sitka Center for Art & Ecology.
His nonfiction has appeared in Orion, Taproot, Northern Woodlands, Appalachia, and other publications. Ben’s fourth studio album, The Trouble With Wilderness, was released on April 23rd, 2021. In this episode, he talks about his relationship with nature and the role art plays in helping us relate to nature and the way it affects our decision-making in environmental management.
Resources
Ben’s website:https://www.bencosgrove.com/
Northern Woodlands Magazine: https://northernwoodlands.org/
Sponsors
West Fraser: https://www.westfraser.com/
GreenLink Forestry Inc.: http://greenlinkforestry.com/
Damaged Timber: https://www.damagedtimber.com/
Giveaway
Enter YourForest10 at checkout at the Damaged Timber store for a 10% discount!
Quotes
23.21 - 23.43: “If by hearing me sit on stage every night and... tell stories about... how these different landscapes and environments and places have influenced and affected me, then I might... inspire somebody else to wonder about how the places that they inhabit and move through and care for affect them.”
28.34 - 28.47: “The trees outside your office... they all kind of rhyme with each other and just because it’s in a city and … surrounded by concrete doesn’t mean it's not also nature.”
30.03 - 30.16: “Just because there is wilderness out there doesn’t mean that you don’t also have a responsibility to... treat the nature in your own life with... respect and awe and interest and reverence.”
44.57 - 45.17: “When I write... I have to imagine that if my work or if that of any other environmental artist is influencing the thinking or eventually the work of a scientist, it’s by appealing to them as a person first and a scientist second”.
1.05.17 - 1.05.29: “I am of the opinion that... a lot of our broader environmental problems and issues are... not the result of... malevolence but of neglect.”
Takeaways
Playing about the world (6.50)
As a pianist, Ben identifies as a folk songwriter more than a classical composer, whose music is inspired by the environment, landscape and place. As a child, his piano teacher encouraged him to use music to understand his place in the world and he now expresses his feelings through music about geography.
Greater than the sum of its sounds (11.24)
Ben has moved from an objective data-driven musical portrait of an environment to a more emotionally resonant use of data to inspire his music. He talks about a piece he created based on a study on two species of megafauna, where their interactions, both pleasant and conflicting, were depicted using a cello and a viola.
Soundscapes and conversation (16.41)
Ben’s music is an interpretation of his interest in “topography and what it feels like to be a person-sized person in differently shaped landscapes”. His travels feed his nuanced understanding of being in a place and compel him to pay attention to how qualitatively different each place is.
What does your soul feel like? (19.55)
Ben’s natural interests and abilities in discovering the nature of the self combine with his interest in scientific understandings of different landscapes and places. Though he does not make music with the intention of advocacy, he hopes that his joyful self-expression helps others rediscover their connection with even mundane and lesser-noticed landscapes like sidewalk weeds.
Inspiration begins at home (27.45)
Ben’s new album, The Trouble With Wildnerness, is named after “an argument against conflating wilderness and nature or even wilderness and wildness”. He admits that it took being stuck at home during the pandemic for him to discover the beauty of nature at his doorstep. His new music evokes the smaller features of ecosystems instead of the sweep of landscapes.
Connecting through interpretations (35.36)
Ben considers landscape painters and nature essayists as more his role models than musicians. He finds value in others unexpectedly emotionally resonating with his musical interpretation of nature. “The best thing art can do… [is] providing a point of connection that might otherwise be hard to articulate”, he claims.
“Half of the work of the song is letting it be interpreted by somebody else” (38.50)
Ben is mindful that “there is a lot… that art can do to frame public understanding of what a place is and what it means”, whether positive or negative and could present a narrow or reductive definition of a place too without the artist intending to. However, he appreciates how being interpreted lends his music new meaning and allows him to be a part of his audience’s lives.
“I write for people and scientists are people” (44.29)
Ben has done a few residencies where he has created music in response to scientific research, using art to communicate his feelings to others, who may find value in his illustration of science. Though he is unaware of any research inspired by his music, he is confident that his music can “do a bit to show the public what science can do”.
“Getting those conversations started makes the world run better” (1.02.47)
Ben believes that the ways in which people act as stewards of one environment or landscape over another have a lot to do with the art they consume about it that has helped frame those places in their minds. He hopes his music compels people to discover and think critically about how they feel about a place, even if it is in disagreement with how he expresses his feelings.
Stay in touch! (1.16.48)
To learn more about Ben and his work, visit his website and listen to his new album, read his essays and dive deep into his philosophy surrounding nature!
Humans love the outdoors. We love to observe it, recreate in it, listen to it, and we depend on its resources to drive our economy and build cool stuff. Unfortunately, the way we go about extracting some of these resources can sometimes leave nature worse for wear. In comes land reclamation to save the day! Reclamation of environmental resources is a tricky, complex, and fascinating science. From building soils like Anthroposols (human-made soil) to fixing waterways, land reclamation is one very cool way to rebuild what was lost.
Your Forest Podcast by Matthew Kristoff
Defining Land Reclamation with Anne Naeth
Episode highlight
Dr. Anne Naeth is Professor of Land Reclamation and Restoration Ecology, Director of the Land Reclamation International Graduate School (LRIGS), Director of the Energy Systems Signature Area, Director of the Future Energy Systems Research Program, all at the University of Alberta. In this episode, she defines the types of land reclamation and who should be held responsible for it and how to create a sustainable future for us all.
Resources
University of Alberta’s Bachelor of Science in Environmental and Conservation Sciences | Major
in Land Reclamation:
https://www.ualberta.ca/agriculture-life-environment-sciences/programs/undergraduate-
programs/degree-programs/environmental-conservation-sciences/land-reclamation/index.html
Sponsors
West Fraser: https://www.westfraser.com/
GreenLink Forestry Inc.: http://greenlinkforestry.com/
Damaged Timber: https://www.damagedtimber.com/
Giveaway
Enter YourForest10 at checkout at the Damaged Timber store for a 10% discount!
Quotes
16.08 - 16.23: “Land reclamation, put very simply, is taking land that has been disturbed and
reclaiming it, getting it back to what it was either before the disturbance or to some other
productive use.”
17.35 - 17.45: “Ecological restoration is really building that broader ecosystem rather than
focussing on a particular end land use.”
25.12- 25.19: “What is it that we need as stewards of the land in that particular area at that
particular time?”
27.38 - 27.58: “I teach in land reclamation, that it’s not just about our romantic views or our
ideals but it’s about what is appropriate - and appropriate of course is a loaded word as well -
but what is appropriate for the time, for the place, for the people in that particular area.”
40.39 - 40.59: “We have learned so much just by working with nature and understanding
ecological processes that now there is augmented natural recovery and in some cases, what
would be considered doing nothing is the best approach to be taking for that particular
restoration.”
44.36 - 44.42: “We have to always remember that land reclamation, in itself, is a disturbance.”
47.39 - 47.48: “We are part of the environment… we can’t talk about ourselves as being
separate from nature, we are part of nature.”
1.02.05 - 1.02.13: “There are many good companies and they take their responsibility seriously
and they will do the best that they can.”
1.055.55 - 1.06.22: “If we as consumers make smart choices and we decide we’re going to
make our choices for whatever we need... then you know we have a lot of control too because if
we’re saying we’re not buying your product because you don’t clean up your environmental
messes then that product becomes less valuable for that particular company.”
1.06.42 - 1.07.01: “It’s hard when you are raising a family, you don’t have a great paycheque
and... you’re just trying to... make ends meet, you’re not necessarily going to make sustainable
environmental choices. You’re going to take the cheapest fuel or whatever you have to spend
less money for.”
1.21.51 - 1.22.00: “This whole COVID scenario just really reminded me of what we can do when
we put our hearts and minds into it when we work together.”
1.22.49 - 1.22.56: “You mess around with the environment, nobody’s going to buy your stuff. So,
get on board and do what you need to be doing.”
Takeaways
Nature trailblazer (6.08)
Living on a farm as a child, Anne loved nature. When she took botany in her pre-medical study at university, she decided to switch to environmental studies. She worked with the University of Alberta to create an individual master’s program in land reclamation so she could explore the subject. She completed many courses in plant and soil science to earn the first land reclamation degree there. Nature conservation is her passion and duty, she says.
Where can you learn about land reclamation? (10.23)
Anne has been actively involved in developing land reclamation studies at the University of Alberta. Land reclamation is offered as a major in the bachelor’s program in environmental and conservation sciences. The master’s and doctoral programs are a broad offering with many areas of focus. The Land Reclamation International Graduate School (LRIGS) began in 2012 and delves into international aspects of land reclamation, in keeping with the times.
Terms of reclamation (15.30)
Anne explains land reclamation as bringing disturbed land back to its original state (ecological) or to productive use (agricultural). Restoration, remediation of contaminants and revegetation are components of land reclamation. The terms are used differently across the planet and sometimes interchangeably. However, she is mindful of the legal implications of the terms from her experience with the Environmental Appeals Board and considers land reclamation to be the scientifically appropriate term.
Land ownership and responsibility (28.26)
Anne believes that “land reclamation practitioners should be involved in the planning before the disturbance, not just coming in and cleaning up the mess after”. The planning decisions are made differently in each province in Canada based on ownership (private or crown). Landowners are expected to complete documentation before undertaking any disturbing activity and are held accountable to their reclamation plan in order to get a reclamation certificate.
To whom the land belongs (32.21)
Anne believes land reclamation plans should be developed in consultation with indigenous spiritual perspectives and traditional ecological values because “the soil can be rebuilt, the plant community can be reestablished but we don’t necessarily have that sense of place; the spirit of the land isn’t brought back”. Land reclamation has now evolved from only a science-based practice to one where the spirit is considered.
Conscientious reclamation (42.49)
Land reclamation projects have evolved conscious stages to manage any ecological issues that may come up since the reclamation process is itself disturbing to the land. Different approaches are taken based on how populated the area is. Less invasive techniques like drones are being employed for monitoring purposes in sensitive environments. Anthroposols (soils made by humans) are being created to reclaim the land where natural materials are not available.
The future of reclamation (56.34)
Today, before land reclamation plans can be approved, companies have to separate the soil horizons and use natural materials to ensure the viability of the land reclaimed. Anne imagines a time when companies trade soil layers to ensure maximum viability through timely use, though ownership and cost may be hindrances. She also hopes that companies will be given a time frame in which to reclaim disturbed lands and only be allowed a certain amount of disturbance in a certain period.
Miles to go (1.02.51)
Anne laments that there are some philosophical and practical hurdles to overcome, and tradeoffs between the environment and economy that will have to be made to continue our modern way of life. The industry, other peers, and consumers along with regulators could exert pressure on companies to operate sustainably. However, end consumers should not be expected to carry the weight of responsibility through their choices.
Making regulation work (1.09.06)
Anne observes that Alberta has a stringent certification process that has evolved to regulate the operations of companies and hold them accountable to sustainability. She recommends conducting more studies on the ecosystems of the lands being reclaimed to truly assess the ecological impact of the operations and reclamations. Monitoring metrics need to be refined based on the type of land.
Orphaned oil wells (1.15.59)
When companies go bankrupt or cease operations, they abandon their oil wells, reneging their responsibility of reclamation. The Orphan Well Association reclaims these using the deposits the companies had paid before beginning operations. Anne suggests that each company should be given the responsibility to reclaim one oil well pro bono every year with the help of land reclamation students. Abandoned oil wells could also be used for geothermal projects.
The future is in whose hands? (1.21.36)
Anne worries that we may be taking too long to implement positive changes to protect the environment, but is excited by the new technologies and ideas pouring into this space from people concerned about sustainability. She is also hopeful about youth entering environmental careers or choosing sustainability as a way of life and her observation that “the environment is important to them even if they are living in the city”.
What does true equity look like? Why is it important? How do we accomplish it? Jessica has spent her career looking for answers to these questions. Turns out, it’s on us. We have to do the hard work to make true equity and diversity a reality. We have to look our own bias in the face and allow it to change us. We need to ask the hard questions and get comfortable with the uncomfortable. Only then can we all recognize the benefits of true equity.
Resources
Women in Wood Website: https://www.womeninwood.ca/
Women in Wood Facebook Group: https://www.facebook.com/groups/womeninwood
Sponsors
West Fraser: https://www.westfraser.com/
GreenLink Forestry Inc.: http://greenlinkforestry.com/
Damaged Timber: https://www.damagedtimber.com/
Giveaway
Enter YourForest10 at checkout at the Damaged Timber store for a 10% discount!
Quotes
8.53 - 9.02: “That’s one thing actually I've always found interesting about the tree planting camps - you don't really learn why; you are just… told, okay… here’s your trees, here’s your plot of land, get it done.”
13.06 - 13.12: “That’s kind of what’s kept me here, is just being able to interact with those people that really love their job and do their job because they really believe in what they do.”
14.07 - 14.15: “I never saw my gender as something that was an issue in forestry because of the classes I was a part of, the people I was with.”
14.57-15.06: ”We’d hang out with the guys… at the conferences and they would joke about being part of the boys’ club and we would say, ‘No, we should start our own girls’ club, right?’”
21.46 - 21.51: “You can only advocate for yourself. You can only be your own cheerleader. So if you’re not asking, you’re not going to get it.”
25.25 - 25.35: “The sector still totally impacts confidence… If you’re not creating an inclusive environment for a woman to enter, it’s going to drive people out.”
26.44 - 26.56: “It’s a very simple thing to think about but... it has huge implications on the trajectory of women’s career paths - if you are not providing those same growth opportunities, then they are never going to grow into those leadership positions.”
29.21 - 29.27: “Just because you are a male, doesn’t mean that by having women in the workplace, you understand what it’s like to be a woman.”
37.48 - 38.01: “I’ve run into situations before where I have to stop myself and think… am I giving equitable advice and opportunities to my employees regardless of their gender or regardless of their background or regardless of their ethnicity?”
40.52 - 40.55: “The only way you ever learn is if you get outside your comfort zone.”
41.58 - 42.03: “You are never not learning, and don’t ever think that you’ve got all the knowledge.”
45.41 - 45.50: “It was tough to be one of the only women in the room and have a voice…. Some people in the room just helped me find that voice and gave me that confidence to speak up more and more.”
50.35 - 50.42: “I think that there’s a lot of promise for more women staying in the sector and feeling empowered to grow into leadership positions.”
1.03.21 - 1.03.26: “If you want to be more inclusive, you have to do the work.”
1.13.42 - 1.13.47: “You’re only going to come up with unique solutions if you bring in unique perspectives into the organization.”
1.16.50 - 1.16.54: “For me, I don’t feel that my gender has held me back but I know it does for a lot of people.”
Takeaways
The roots take hold (6.32)
Jessica grew up in a wooded conservation suburb outside Toronto but didn’t consider herself outdoorsy. At the University of Toronto to be a vet, she began taking forestry courses to expand her repertoire and enjoyed the subject. She signed up for tree planting camps as a summer job in northern Ontario, her first camping experience which piqued her interest in the industry. She was also accepted into a European program to learn about sustainable forest management.
The sapling of sustainability (10.45)
On her return to Canada, Jessica travelled to different provinces at the behest of the government to learn about forestry practices across the country. Soon, opportunities began to show up which guided her into the forestry industry - a free conference here, a job there, an internship here, a volunteering post there. She pursued her master’s degree in forest conservation and joined the network of people passionate about sustainable forestry.
Somewhere I belong (13.56)
In Jessica’s undergrad program, all four students enrolled in forestry were women. Only at her first job did she realize that “something doesn't belong here and it’s definitely me”, she recalls. At one industry event, she noticed another woman, Lacey Rose, and together, they decided to create a Facebook group, Women in Wood, as a safe space for women in the forestry industry. With a quirky logo and t-shirts, the grassroots network has grown to over 2300 members today.
If the shoe doesn’t fit (18.07)
The Facebook Group is only open to women, and organizations or men trying to join are rejected to “provide that safe space for women… [to] ask those questions that they might not be able to ask if there were men part of the group”, Jessica explains. One of the discussions on the group is around finding gear that fits correctly since gear is not designed keeping women’s bodies in mind. Women feel unsafe and underconfident working in gear that doesn’t fit right.
Asking for something is a gendered issue (20.10)
Jessica shares that women and men perceive job postings differently - while a woman will only apply if she meets all the requirements, men apply even if they meet just half. They also differ in negotiating salaries, with women settling for lower salaries and men asking for more. She encourages women to have conversations around salary with their bosses, citing examples where just a conversation has led to a 17% raise.
The sisterhood of the forestry women (22.02)
Jessica has observed that Women in Wood has become a safe space to discuss many issues like sexual harassment and difficult supervisors or workplaces. Women offer advice, opportunities, examples and personal stories, creating a wealth of information and resources to guide every member. The diversity of approaches and perspectives in this empowering community helps the women equip their toolbox with a holistically informed perspective.
What women are taught (25.24)
Jessica laments that while many women enter the forestry industry, “the challenge has been women staying in forestry”. Not just forestry, but all industries need to support women in their life goals, providing equitable opportunities to nurture them into leaders. Men and women are often trained differently, making women miss out on the important skills required of leaders. Jessica learned how to read financials and talk numbers to increase her credibility as a leader.
You can’t do a forest without us (29.03)
Jessica suggests that men approach this conversation with humility and recognition that unconscious biases exist, asking employees questions to make workplaces more inclusive for them. When Jessica came back from maternity leave, she became mindful of how conversations with each employee can make the workplace more inclusive, making them feel “they matter and what works for them matters to the organization”.
The authenticity of inclusivity (32.27)
Jessica urges workplaces not to view inclusivity as a check in the box, but to make an honest effort. Most organizations recognize that without a focus on diversity and inclusion, they will lose customers, suppliers and employees, since “social media could ruin you as an organization”, Jessica observes. She believes people should work for companies that are reflective of their values and foster an inclusive and welcoming environment.
You’re not listening to me (36.01)
Jessica talks about an online event where her workplace had organized closed captioning for a deaf attendee, who later discussed how job postings with ‘excellent verbal communication skills’ intimidated her. This got Jessica thinking about how mindful we need to be to incorporate inclusivity into our workplaces and unravel our unconscious bias. She recommends employers become more aware of these details when looking to hire or advance people.
Get comfortable with the uncomfortable (37.39)
The responsibility of inclusivity lies with everyone, not just men, Jessica believes. Society needs to become more reflective of its unconscious biases. Uncovering them can be uncomfortable for each person based on their backgrounds and upbringing, but Jessica views it as a humbling opportunity to learn about other people’s challenges and deconstructing our assumptions around them, adapting to different people to create a culture of self-development and growth.
Leading the way (42.50)
Jessica thinks that a good leader draws out others’ successes and knowledge using their own as inspiration. She claims she is a relaxed leader and aspires to elevate the people on her team to share ideas. She warns other leaders against falling back on the women for extraneous tasks like taking meeting minutes or planning the Christmas party but giving them a safe space to voice their ideas in board meetings, mindful of their communication preferences.
A word speaks a thousand opinions (48.49)
A man may be described as a leader while a woman gets described as aggressive. Jessica still catches herself when she uses different words to describe men and women doing the same actions, but she says that part of the learning is to recognize that we make mistakes and then correct them. She advises the forestry sector to do the same, asking women for the support that is needed and encouraging them to have conversations around creating a welcoming space.
Internal diversity and inclusion training (51.43)
Jessica guides the listeners towards quizzes to reveal their unconscious bias. When her organization conducted diversity training, it was uncomfortable because “you don’t realize how you might be associating certain people with certain characteristics”. She suggests reaching out to local training organizations and professionals to learn about your biases. If you receive a bad report, don’t deny it, but use it to identify the gaps and encourage your team to do the same.
Say when it’s not okay (58.12)
Jessica tries to challenge herself and the people around her on orthodox ideas. In the past, she notes, people would brush off inappropriate remarks made by someone that made them uncomfortable. “It’s no longer okay to accept that that's just how someone is and that's the character they are and brush it off”, she remarks. She gives the example of now pointing out how bikini model calendars are offensive instead of ignoring them like in the past.
Adaptable diversity and inclusion (1.01.49)
Jessica acknowledges that the process of diversity and inclusion is continuous, and there isn’t just one way to get there. In the forestry industry, adapting has been the strategy with sustainability and with diversity. Organizations who truly want to create a culture of diversity and inclusion instead of just mentioning it in the mission statement on their website need to invest the effort needed to make it happen.
Working Moms (1.04.49)
Before Jessica went on maternity leave, she completed a lot of work because she wanted to focus on her child during her leave. Becoming a mother has taught her how to be much more conscious and efficient with time. She is part of a Facebook group, Moms at Work, filled with resources to help working moms across sectors. Her partner is an equal parent, even though society expects her to do most of the parenting as a woman.
Returning to work as a new mom (1.08.07)
Jessica puts expectations on herself to be everything and works to balance her work and family life. She sets time aside to be with the family even if that means she spends time before bed working. Her workplace has been supportive in her return, and she recommends organizations conduct onboarding sessions for employees returning from parental leave. This helps them catch up on the work they missed without feeling overwhelmed.
Hold your leaders accountable (1.11.29)
“If your leadership is indicating that you’re further ahead than you feel they might be, it’s important for people to bring that up”, Jessica advises. Pushing your leadership to correct the shortcomings in diversity and inclusion in the organization will help them provide appropriate solutions. Looking for a champion in senior management to further the cause in the organization is a good way to get leadership to take notice of important issues.
Diversity helps businesses (1.13.29)
Jessica guides employees to online searches to find statistics on how profitable it is for businesses to have diversity. Hard facts will convince senior management to make a change. “If you want to create change, come with a business case of why this may matter and you’re more likely to create change”, she says. She also mentions the importance of women developing the business skills to make such presentations and drive changes in the sector.
Privilege and the way ahead (1.15.14)
Jessica is aware that even though she didn’t have many challenges in the forestry sector because of her gender, not every woman has the same experience. There is much work to be done to eliminate discrimination and other challenges in the workplace. She is now “focussed on building a space in the sector where women feel like they can stay and feel like they are empowered... contributing to something that is long term”, she says.
Do your part! (1.17.03)
Jessica encourages women in forestry to join the Facebook group Women in Wood, to discover a treasure trove of empowerment, resources and opportunities. You can also follow them on Twitter and Instagram. Men are encouraged to guide the women in their life to the group and to be a supportive ally by donning the t-shirts! Most of all, she urges men to elevate the women in their organization and highlight their achievements.
Sustainability can be confusing. We all want it, but how do we achieve it? Jake Kheel makes it understandable. In his new book “Waking The Sleeping Giant: Unlocking the Hidden Power of Business to Save the Planet” Jake details one companies sustainability journey. Jake explains how chasing sustainability has changed not only their business but the local environment, economy, and communities for the better. In the end, it is just about solving problems.
Your Forest Podcast by Matthew Kristoff
Waking The Sleeping Giant with Jake Kheel
Episode highlight
Jake Kheel, Vice President and Director of the Center of Sustainability at Groupo Puntacana, demystifies sustainability and explains how businesses can achieve it, make a difference and unlock more success in their own operations.
Resources
Jake’s book: Waking The Sleeping Giant: Unlocking The Hidden Power of Business To Save The Planet: https://www.amazon.ca/Waking-Sleeping-Giant-Unlocking-Business/dp/1544520123
Jake’s website: https://jakekheel.com/
Sponsors
West Fraser: https://www.westfraser.com/
GreenLink Forestry Inc.: http://greenlinkforestry.com/
Damaged Timber: https://www.damagedtimber.com/
Giveaway
Enter YourForest10 at checkout at the Damaged Timber store for a 10% discount!
Quotes
8.56 - 9.15: “What has fascinated me about the area of sustainability is trying to find solutions to these very complex challenges that balance the environment with other interests... It’s not just the environment, you really need to have... local people and local communities benefitting.”
13.00 - 13.17: “Sustainability is all about creativity, it’s all about… being flexible and find new ways to do things and it’s… playing in the grey area and… really celebrating nuance and… recognizing that each local situation is its own universe.”
27.51 - 27.58: “Sustainability really... sharpens your skills at responding to big new challenges and being able to adapt to that.”
40.12 - 40.18: “Creating that environment where innovation is... thought of as positive is every important.”
46.21 - 46.28: “It’s in our interest to invest in those two assets, in our human resources and our natural resources.”
Takeaways
Ecology and economy (5.17)
Jake grew up in the lap of nature in Southern Florida and in school, learnt about how the environment was threatened. Wanting to make a difference started him on his sustainability journey, learning along the way the importance of balancing ecology with the economy.
The trifecta of sustainability (10.14)
Jake defines sustainability as “trying to find solutions to big global challenges that balance these interests of economic growth, environmental protection and local communities”. He recognizes that sustainability requires flexibility and creativity in its application in different ecosystems.
Sustainability think tanks (15.47)
Jake believes that when businesses apply their human resources along with capital to sustainability, innovating solutions for environmental and social challenges can become possible in a way that ensures profitability and meaningful change.
Sustainability, a competitive advantage (20.41)
Jake finds that by looking through the lens of sustainability, businesses can find value and solutions to their own challenges, like employee retention. Groupo Puntacana’s staff has been galvanized into a dedicated community through the shared mission of sustainability.
Protecting the ecosystem one flourishes in (29.22)
Groupo Puntacana has faced and found solutions to the various ecological, economic and social challenges that the Dominican Republic has thrown their way. They now have a diverse portfolio of sustainability projects they have taken on in the region.
Shark Tank for sustainability (34.11)
Groupo Puntacana ran a Shark Tank-style cross-department contest to innovate for sustainability, and the winning group found a way to repurpose plastics that couldn’t be recycled. The company backed the project as their commitment to sustainability.
Human resources and natural resources (43.14)
Jake explains that businesses must view their local community as their extension. In his industry, tourists want to experience the culture by interacting with the locals, and the locals must feel positive about the impact tourists have on their land to allow that interaction.
Immersing in local issues (48.38)
Jake shares the story of Daniel Janzen, an ecologist who focussed his research in Costa Rica, to streamline his energy and efforts into making more of an impact. Anchoring in one issue is a better way to make a difference to it, Jake believes.
Greening (53.09)
Jake explains that ‘greening’ is a way for companies to improve their image, by taking small steps to become more sustainable. Foraying into sustainability will then improve efficiency and capacity, create an innovation culture and mindset, and attract customers who care.
Failing is good (56.40)
Even though the tourism industry has been hard hit, Jake credits Groupo Puntacana’s commitment to sustainability for its resilience. Embracing and sharing failures in sustainability with perseverance paves the way for improvement, innovation and success.
No pongas tímida (1.04.26)
Jake encourages businesses, no matter how big or small, to begin on the sustainability journey which will add value to both the business as well as the community it operates in. Know-how about the business can translate into more creativity in tackling sustainability challenges.
Stronger together (1.09.01)
“Engaging your employees and your collaborators in the process of problem-solving is incredibly powerful”, says Jake. Employees may see what senior management can’t, and find creative solutions that benefit sustainability and profitability.
Wake the sleeping giants (1.12.16)
Jake’s book is a simple, enjoyable read for people looking to make an impact. Discussing how companies can contribute to transformational change by viewing sustainability as a value proposition, he shares stories from his own life to inspire readers to be the difference.
Archeological finds in the boreal forest have exploded in the past 5 years. Hundreds of new sites have been located with evidence of vast populations of Indigenous people living deep into the boreal forest, not just on the fringes like what was previously hypothesized. This changes the way we think about the boreal. It was never an untouched landscape. People are deeply rooted in this land and the forest itself evolved with people as part of the ecology. These new findings paint a picture that should cause us to reflect on our relationship with nature, and how we interact with it. Kurtis is an Archeologist with a wealth of knowledge and experience in the boreal forest. He came on to discuss how Archeology is changing our future.
Your Forest Podcast by Matthew Kristoff
Digging Into The Past With Kurtis Blaikie-Birkigt
Episode highlight
Kurtis Blaikie-Birkigt, an archeologist with a wealth of knowledge and experience in the boreal forest shares how archeology has provided evidence of vast populations of indigenous people living deep in the boreal forest. These new findings paint a picture that should cause us to reflect on our relationship with nature, and our understanding of indigenous perspectives.
Resources
Kurtis’ blog: https://archaeologyblog.treetimeservices.ca/author/kblaikie/
Sponsors
West Fraser: https://www.westfraser.com/
GreenLink Forestry Inc.: http://greenlinkforestry.com/
Damaged Timber: https://www.damagedtimber.com/
Giveaway
Enter YourForest10 at checkout at the Damaged Timber store for a 10% discount!
Quotes
10.22 - 10.46: “Through better understanding the history of the land we’re on… I can help contribute to truth and reconciliation that way by helping to communicate to other people of settler backgrounds like me about the history of the land that we’re on. It’ll help us come to terms with... the land we live on and... the other people that live on this land with us.”
13.29 - 13.41: “Even though I knew that I was looking for artifacts left behind by people, people didn't really play a big role in my awareness of the forest and the way I was thinking about it.”
24.06 - 24.12: “Archeology is a western science so it’s reductionist and it’s about compartmentalizing.”
25.12 - 25.25: “From a regulatory perspective... it’s very difficult to manage a thing that you can't see... and that you can’t touch. It’s hard to manage the cultural landscape, the stories that are on the land.”
40.41 - 40.52: “The sense I have now is that there is nowhere out there that wasn’t used in the past and if we look hard enough in any area, we’re going to find evidence of that.”
51.11 - 51.22: “Wanting to make a difference and leave a mark and help things move in the right direction... I think that’s where a lot of us are coming to things right now.”
52.18 - 52.34: “If we look at the United Nations declaration on the rights of indigenous people, it’s pretty clear in there that we should not be making decisions on what happens to sites without talking to indigenous people who might have an interest in or a historical connection to those sites.”
1.02.05 - 1.02.18: “Understanding the past... helps us understand how we got to where we are now and that'll help us set up for the future... that’ll help us to figure out how we're going to move forward and in what direction.”
1.04.02 - 1.04.27: “I think it’s been easy for us to drop in and just focus on resource extraction... and just focus on… short-term gains and not see sustainability because we don’t have… 15000 years of family history connected to this land... We don’t see that big picture.”
Takeaways
Kurtis’ changing relationships with land (9.23)
Kurtis’ curiosity about the complexity of life over millennia and the different ways to live on this land were fundamental drivers in his foray into archeology. While visiting and working in Swan Hills, he approached the area from a colonial perspective that the forest had been untouched but now understands that it was a cultural landscape for indigenous people. He now acknowledges and shares with his kids the rich history of multiple generations in these lands.
The practice of consulting archeology (20.33)
Kurtis talks about how archeology, like other western sciences, is learning from traditional indigenous ecological knowledge and weaving stories from each excavated object to create a narrative of a life lived in the past. However, there are many intangible, culturally significant revelations that are elusive to excavation. Consultation is being sought on projects for “better integration of traditional land use, oral history and archeological work”, he observes.
This land is not what it seems (28.54)
Kurtis has learned from excavating different sites for pipeline projects, that most lands are more complex in their history than was previously understood. As archeology advances and more sites are identified, he is optimistic that more such results will be unearthed. He shares stories of discovering medicinal plants and herbs in remote lands and learning about the true nature of the Laurentide Glacier that covered Canada thousands of years ago.
No landscape untouched (37.27)
Kurtis explains that the more exploration and excavation that takes place across newer landscapes that we may not have assumed people lived or travelled in, the more history reveals itself. It informs our understanding of the lifestyles of people then and the depth of time. “Every time you’re out there and you're in a place no one’s been, you find something left by someone in the past”, he notes.
Achieving a balanced use of land (45.42)
Kurtis has noticed the integration of different demands from the land at higher levels in the overall planning, to balance modern needs with cultural values and ecosystem preservation, and scientific information potential with heritage and history. He believes that the use of land is up to the indigenous people, and with improved consultation and engagement, a more holistic interpretation of land use can be arrived at, without regulatory or industry hindrances.
Understanding the past to move into the future (55.05)
Kurtis is mindful that even though they are given permits by and report to the government of Alberta, “putting the archeology first isn’t the same thing as being really open and transparent to everybody involved”. He sees his greatest contribution in educating settlers like him who are disconnected from their own cultural heritage, about indigenous perspectives and history. Using physical artifacts is a good way to segue into truth and reconciliation conversations, he says.
Your Forest Podcast by Matthew Kristoff
Recycling Is Dead with Raz Razgaitis
Episode highlight
Raz Razgaitis, CEO of FloWater, talks about water security, the failure of the plastics recycling system, and how his company is making clean drinking water democratized and pure while eliminating plastic waste.
Resources
FloWater: https://www.drinkflowater.com/
Social Media: @drinkflowater
Plastic Pollution Coalition: https://www.plasticpollutioncoalition.org/
Sponsors
West Fraser: https://www.westfraser.com/
GreenLink Forestry Inc.: http://greenlinkforestry.com/
Damaged Timber: https://www.damagedtimber.com/
Giveaway
Enter YourForest10 at checkout at the Damaged Timber store for a 10% discount!
Quotes
15.40 - 15.47: “I think, in many ways, big bottled water is very much… the big tobacco of 2020 and 2021”.
16.39 - 16.44: “Let’s keep these plastics from even being created in the first place so then we don’t have to recycle them.”
31.40 - 31.48: “We’re facing a situation today where there are going to be more plastics in the ocean by the year 2050 than there are fish.”
34.35 - 34.38: “We do believe everyone deserves access to clean drinking water that they can trust.”
43.03 - 43.11: “There’s a lot of data that even the stuff that makes it into your recycle bin, there’s a pretty low chance that it actually makes it all the way through the recycling system.”
Takeaways
What makes Raz get out of bed each morning (5.01)
Raz is motivated to end the use of single-use plastic water bottles by democratizing and decentralizing water. He also feels a sense of “responsibility and obligation” towards making these happen for the planet and its people.
A big opportunity to do good while doing well (10.57)
Raz took a natural wellness approach to break free from medications and to make water the healthy drink of choice for everyone. He also wanted to move from a greenwashed idea of recycling to ‘uncycling’ - removing plastics from the ecosystem.
Whether you’re drinking bottled water or not, you’re now drinking bottled water (20.40)
Raz cites a SUNY study stating 90% of bottled and tap water contains 300 microplastic particles per litre. While cigarettes contain 6000 known chemicals, plastic bottles contain 10,000 which permeate our organs. Though tap water is cheap and easily available, people can’t trust it.
A regression back to a positive natural state (29.24)
Raz explains that microplastics contribute to oxidative stress and inflammation in human and non-human animals, and cause the destruction of marine life. Aquatic animals ingest them and lead them into our food system. FloWater makes tap water plastic-free, safe and re-mineralized.
Recycling is broken (41.41)
Raz laments that instead of being recycled, 8 million tonnes of plastic bottles get dumped into waterways every year. Human behaviour is difficult to change, especially moving people away from the convenience of single-use plastic water bottles when they don’t like or trust tap water.
Make the switch from trash to treasure (49.19)
Focussed on ending single-use plastic water bottle use, FloWater is offering touchless refill stations to purify water fountains at schools and other public places, and water packed in aluminum bottles to transition people from single-use to reusables through infinite recyclables.
Finding solutions to our ever-lengthening list of environmental management problems can seem nearly impossible. We have a desire to solve an issue, create opportunity, make the world a better place, but we don’t know how, or where, to begin. Collaboration is the key. But how do we begin collaboration in a way that will create a meaningful and lasting relationship? A relationship that can withstand disagreement and different perspectives, but at the end of the day is there to make the right decisions to further sustainability and in turn humanity. Laura Calandrella has dedicated her life to building these relationships and she is here today to talk about her experience. Her book “Our Next Evolution” details how to create collaborative leadership that lasts.
our Forest Podcast by Matthew Kristoff
Our Next Evolution with Laura Calandrella
Episode highlight
Laura Calandrella, the author of ‘Our Next Evolution’, talks about collaborating in meaningful and impactful ways to further sustainability and, in turn, humanity.
Resources
Our Next Evolution: https://www.amazon.ca/Our-Next-Evolution-Transforming-Collaborative-ebook/dp/B08PZFJ27T
Keeping Forests: https://www.keepingforests.org/
Clearing by Martha Postlewaite: https://condofire.com/2020/01/04/poem-of-the-week-clearing-by-martha-postlewaite/
Sponsors
West Fraser: https://www.westfraser.com/
GreenLink Forestry Inc.: http://greenlinkforestry.com/
Damaged Timber: https://www.damagedtimber.com/
Giveaway
Enter YourForest10 at checkout at the Damaged Timber store for a 10% discount!
Quotes
14.03 - 14.16: “We sometimes emphasize the doing and forget the qualities of what it means to be human. We’re human beings first and from that sense of self and sense of others, arises our most powerful solutions.”
15.14 - 15.32: “To slow down a little bit and to tap into what matters most is extremely important. it is allowing you to open up your own field of possibility but then also be open to seeing others because, usually, there is a point of intersection around what it means to be human.”
35.32 - 35.52: “Our job as leaders is to generate something novel and new together. It’s not about whose idea is right. Collaborative leadership at its most powerful will take all the perspectives and create an idea or solution that's never been seen before instead of... coming to consensus on one that’s already there.”
55.28 - 55.43: “Science falls short before it even starts because we're not asking a range of questions and then, from there, the interpretation of science, again, is only driven through our lens.”
1.11.01 - 1.11.27: “In case of many forestry professionals in rural areas... there's not this giant economy to tap into, to be able to settle into the idea that... this is a journey of learning and exploration and breaking through the barriers that you're putting on yourself for what you can and can’t do, so really starting to think creatively.”
1.19.27 - 1.19.46: “There is a bias that every collaborative effort is going to be transformative, there is a bias that every collaborative effort is going to be successful and there is a bias that everyone is coming in seeing the issue the same way and... having a desire to solve it in the same way.”
Takeaways
A simple way to bring different perspectives together (6.43)
As a conservation biologist who worked in the environmental field for 20 years, Laura began honing her collaboration skills early on, learning that interactions are at the heart of even natural resource science issues. She left the field to become an executive coach. Her book talks about how dynamic collaboration can be harnessed to help groups create environmental solutions.
Presence is the first step (11.16)
The book highlights the importance of generational teaching through four practices, the first of which is cultivating presence. Laura notes that the natural resource space isn’t used to that, but it is the first step to creating change. Being present allows people to become aware of the beliefs and assumptions they are bringing into the conversation.
A practice to cultivate presence (16.50)
Laura explains presence as a pause, which is “important because we’re so used to just toppling from one moment into the next and into the next without really giving ourselves a chance to see what’s around us”. Noticing one’s breath is an easy way to become present. She guides the listeners through a mindfulness exercise to highlight what they value and care about.
As within, so without (27.09)
Laura teaches this exercise to groups of natural resource professionals, to help them access their inner peace quicker the next time they have disagreements in the group. When people are able to connect with what matters most to them and share that, the openness helps them get in touch with the interconnectedness of the group and the ecosystems they work to protect.
Leadership can be fellowship too (34.12)
Laura explains that based on the group dynamics, vision, action, caring relationships and insightful perspective all need to exist for collaborative leadership. She teaches creative or generative leadership, which is different from reactive leadership in that it combines relationships, values and personal mission to invent hitherto unknown answers and solutions.
Change is hard (39.07)
Laura recognizes that change, both personal and collective, can be difficult, so she tries to simplify the leadership practices she teaches and encourages getting to know other people and cultures and learning from shared experiences. By coming together to develop a 360° view on an issue, leaders can arrive at productive and efficient solutions.
Laura’s 4 leadership practices for collaboration (43.53)
Cultivating presence: Think about the purposes to be involved in the conversation
Creating space: Find the best space to draw people into this conversation
Leveraging diversity: Bring diverse perspectives to enhance the ability to find solutions
Sustaining dialogue: Stay enough in dialogue to understand the issue completely
Beyond science (48.12)
Laura laments that scientists like herself aren’t willing to dive into action without knowing everything in its entirety, but we need to do that so we can understand the impact science has on others. She also challenges the kinds of questions science asks and if it considers the lived experiences of those who will be affected by the results of experiments.
Holistic education (58.08)
Although technical forestry is an essential subject, Laura believes it can be more impactful if integrated with public policy and community. Schools can create a space where people feel curious and welcome to explore environmental issues not just through the scientific lens, and understand how they interact with society.
“Relationship is the catalyst for change” (1.02.34)
Laura finds relief that exploration in growth needn’t be a solo enterprise, and it needn’t aim to solve all the problems in the world. She suggests starting small, moving towards one’s purpose, and channeling the energy of new experiences into solution-seeking. However, don’t let the fear of making mistakes paralyze you; just keep going.
“Science is a story” (1.07.32)
As a child, Laura spent a lot of time observing the natural world, which led her to her path today. “There’s a lot of wisdom that can be gained from something you already enjoy”, she observes and urges listeners to observe what they feel curious about and what they value, and to create a meaningful story they would want to be involved in to create change.
“Biases are completely normal” (1.15.16)
Laura reassures that biases help people by providing heuristics from which to view the world. However, we need to recognize and accept biases in ourselves and others so we can question them. She warns against using why questions since they make people defensive. Positive bias can also be self-defeating, so being honest is important for collaborative leadership.
Send your feedback and comments to yourforestpodcast@gmail.com.
Your Forest Podcast by Matthew Kristoff
Project Forest With Mike Toffan
Episode highlight
Mike Toffan is part of the team at Project Forest that is rewilding Canada one forest at a time by planting forests on non-productive agricultural land. By doing so, they allow their investors to stay true to their values of environmental and social responsibility by sequestering carbon, building habitat, and creating a sustainable forest legacy.
Resources
Project Forest:
Website: https://projectforest.ca/
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/projectforestca/?hl=en
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ProjectForestCA/
LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/project-forest/?originalSubdomain=ca
Tree Time Services: https://treetimeservices.ca/
Habit Marketing: https://habithq.ca/
Tentree: https://www.tentree.ca/
Pachama: https://pachama.com/
JSK Consulting: http://www.jskconsulting.ca/
Eco Impact Awards: https://ecoimpact.ca/
Sponsors
West Fraser: https://www.westfraser.com/
GreenLink Forestry Inc.: http://greenlinkforestry.com/
Damaged Timber: https://www.damagedtimber.com/
Giveaway
Enter YourForest10 at checkout at the Damaged Timber store for a 10% discount!
Quotes
10.27 - 10.39: “What we've been able to do is... create opportunity for any person or any company who wants to... give back, clean the air, create a forest... a venue and a model to execute that.”
11.37 - 11.43: “ [At] Project Forest… we have a mission to rewild the landscape one forest at a time and we’re starting right here in Alberta.”
32.41 - 32.52: “Every tree is an important tree and regardless of you planting it and walking... away or planting it and taking on that liability, both of those things bring value back to what I'll call the global ecosystem.”
55.13 - 55.21: “Corporations aren't going to invest in projects like this just to save the world. They also want to... help grow their business, there has to be [an] additional benefit.”
1.20.32 - 1.20.47: “It's really important to me and Project Forest... that any potential carbon credits that we create are 100% owned by the First Nations groups.”
Takeaways
Positively trending (4.44)
Mike’s first forestry experience was in the Boy Scouts and he has always loved being in the forest. He wanted a career that allowed him to be outside and active, and forestry provided him with that. He felt a connection with the people he went to university with since they were all aligned in values. He is motivated by the fact that his work allows him to make a difference, help people, learn from their experience and expertise and contribute to shaping the future.
A community of like-minded environmentally responsible businesses (11.12)
Project forest has begun an aggressive 10-year plan to plant 2 billion trees on non-productive agricultural land to restore it to its original state by 2030. Their first project, Golden Ranches, is in a UNESCO-recognized biosphere, and all trees planted there will mature into a forest. Project Forest was born from Tree Time Services’ desire to help people and corporations give back and create a forest for future generations to experience.
Restoring the planet back to health (17.44)
Project Forest expects to remove 1187 metric tonnes of carbon dioxide per hectare over the lifespan of the forest at Golden Ranches and create 313 metric tonnes of biomass per hectare. Mike works to bring partners together, secure funds and reach out to the Nature Conservancy of Canada (NCC) to execute the reforestation or afforestation programs efficiently. The hope is that the ecosystem will take over once the forest matures.
Mix it up, but keep it consistent (22.53)
On Golden Ranches, 10 different species of trees have been planted in consultation with an approved afforestation plan between Project Forest and NCC. This is because the land is not flat, and planting the right species is important to balance drainage across the sections. Project Forest has access to Tree Time’s large seed bank and they use the same metrics and decision-making process for all projects.
Towards a carbon-neutral future (26.23)
Mike explains that carbon offsetting or carbon credits don’t factor into the process of creating forests, though planting forests is a great way to become carbon neutral. In the future, it will be possible to measure online the actual volumes of carbon removed from the atmosphere as soon as the plants reach a 2” stem diameter. These calculations will help inform strategy and guide Project Forest towards building natural communities.
Paris must be proud (30.46)
Project Forest monitors and manages the land till it shows signs of growing into a mature forest. The first metric is when plants have grown knee-high, then waist-high, then when the tallest tree reaches 1.5 metres in height; that’s when the land is handed back to the landowners. This ensures every land chosen is successfully forested, the forest land base in the country increases, and Canada meets its Paris Agreement commitments.
Sustainability planning (35.43)
Mike shares some considerations in ensuring the longevity of forests planted: a robust mix of species that will last long, species that will help the soil regenerate, and species that are natural habitats for animals. For the 2 billion tree plan to come to fruition, land and funds are needed for proper site preparation, reforestation and management. Mike is working with the Swan River First Nation to forest some Reserve Territories.
Honouring the authentic history of the lands (41.12)
Mike sees agricultural lands as opportunities to plant 2 billion trees and transition them back to their traditional use, including producing traditional foods and medicines for people and animals that traditionally occupy the lands. Project Forest is also working with the federal government on a potential afforestation carbon credit protocol to make economical opportunities available for First Nations Reserve Territories. A replicable process is needed to make it effectively scalable.
Addressing corporate concerns (51.18)
Mike has received questions from corporations about the risk in investing in Project Forest, the ethics of the process and the quantification of results. However, with Project Forest, contracts outlining the areas being worked on are created and marketing partnerships are offered to help corporations control Environmental, Social and Corporate Governance (ESG) metrics, fulfill Corporate Social Responsibility (CSR) goals and work towards becoming carbon neutral.
Whatever it takes to make the world a better place (1.03.10)
As a Not-For-Profit organization, Project Forest’s work is informed by the values of caring for and being stewards of landscapes, executing on all things sustainably and the motto: “do what you say, say what you do, and do it”. With access to grant funding, 100% of their partnership dollars go into rewilding and any dollars left over go back into the community to create a positive impact. Project Forest has created a model to help companies do good.
The carbon credit conundrum (1.13.02)
You have to be in a 3rd world country to be eligible for carbon credits on an afforestation protocol, says Mike. With First Nations communities, the intent is to give them 100% equity in the carbon credits to create real economic opportunities as the value of carbon credits rises. Using technology to measure carbon captured in forests allows Project Forest to be transparent and prove results.
Partner with Project Forest (1.23.21)
Check out Project Forest’s website and reach out to Mike at info@projectforest.ca for a discovery conversation about solving your corporation’s challenges, increasing the ESG rating, and meeting some CSR goals. Mike is grateful to JSK Consulting for nominating Project Forest for Eco Impact Awards. He promises to plant a tree (up to 2000 trees) for every company tagged on their social media posts! He is also working on giving individuals a way to be a part.
If you liked this podcast, please rate and review it, share it on Instagram and Facebook and tag a friend, and send your feedback and comments to yourforestpodcast@gmail.com.
How do we ensure sustainable forests forever? Not just the trees, but the wildlife, water, soil, recreation opportunities, etc. Forests are moving targets, and we can’t possibly expect to control every aspect. So we try to control the ones that are easier to measure. One such control is the trees. We know all there is to know about the trees. How many, what species, their age, their height, and their location. We even understand the balance of how many of each species should exist across a broad landscape to maintain ecological function. Now, all we need to do is make sure that balance is maintained through good forest regeneration practices that consider all of the values we want in the forest. This episode is about the tools, tactics, and concepts that are allowing us to grow forests as sustainably as possible. Spoiler alert, herbicide might be one of them.
Wildlife is probably the most relatable aspect of nature. We all want to see squirrels, deer, bears, and lynx. But do we know how best to manage a working landscape to ensure those species continue to thrive? That is the question we talked about today. How do we begin to look at forest management from the perspective of the critters? How do we incorporate wildlife values into forest management so we always have plenty of cool creatures to see when we are out with our family in the great wide open.
What is a forest? How do we define it? Is it the trees? The wildlife? The soil or the water? What about a place to find food or a spiritual connection? Forests are all of these things. So when we talk about sustainable forest management shouldn’t we be talking about all of these factors? Today’s conversation was about how to move forest management into the future. It was about how we can ensure that our forests are sustainable for everyone forever.
What is the story of Canada? Discovery? Conquest? What about Treaty? Most of us think of Treaty as a different set of laws and rights pertaining only to Indigenous people. Turns out, it affects and includes all of us. Treaties are the story of how this country came to be. Treaties stand as a symbol of how sovereign nations can form bonds of mutual agreement to live and prosper together. At least that is what they are supposed to be. How did it get so messed up? And how can we make it about cooperation and prosperity again? First, we have to understand the history of how treaties came to be and what they really are. Only then can we move into the future and grow together as partners in this experiment we call Canada.
We all want healthy forest ecosystems, clean water, and vibrant communities. We can achieve these goals through sustainable forest management (SFM). However, we need to continue to push the boundaries of what SFM is in order to ensure we don’t miss something. This means constant research, consultation and not being afraid to change how we do things in order to protect all values for all people, forever. SFM means managing all values equally. It means thoughtful and comprehensive decision making, asking “what is the best use of this land”. Unfortunately, some values have been missed. Indigenous values have not been truly accounted for, until they have, we are not truly sustainable. We need to find a way to help indigenous communities feel heard and respected, so they can feel safe to share and help us all move towards a better system of forest management. Decades of poor communication and distrust have made seeing eye to eye difficult. It is time we fixed this relationship.
Plastics in the ocean, plastics in the soil, non-renewable petrochemical products are found littered across the globe. These products are toxic to the environment and add to the already problematic human carbon footprint. What if we can make plastics from a sustainable and renewable resource? What if it could be cost-effective? What if those products could be carbon neutral, or even carbon negative? What is this miracle product? WOOD baby!! Wood PLASTICS and wood CARBON FIBER exist and are knocking on the door of opportunity.
We have all seen the news footage of wildfires raging through our wild places, threatening homes and lives. Many of us have even been impacted by the threat of these fires or lost our homes to them. Others will have experienced the mid-afternoon blanket of smoke that blots out the sun and turns on the streetlamps. As a society, we are becoming more and more aware of wildfire as a threat. But how did we get here? Why are fires so rampant today? And how do we learn to live in this new reality? How can we learn to live with fire?
Ever wonder what your backyard looked like 10,000 years ago? 100,000 years ago? 1,000,000 years ago? I did, so I went looking for someone with some answers. The boreal forest covers 33% of the world’s forested area making it the biggest forest in the world. Canada contains 28% of the world’s boreal forest and I wanted to learn how it came to be the way we see it today. How fast did things change? How much change was there? Learning from our past is a great way to help us understand our future. What better way to understand the rate of our changing climate than to look at how it compares to climates of the past.
We speak to a lot of researchers and environmental professionals on this podcast. I thought maybe it was time to get a different perspective. Someone who is familiar with the goings-on but does not have a direct stake in the game, perhaps allowing for a more objective view. Tony is a journalist and has been writing about forestry, renewable energy, and sustainability for 30 years. He has some interesting thoughts and ideas that provide some great food for thought. We discussed the true sustainability of the forest industry, the deal with the softwood lumber agreement, private vs public land forestry, tree farming to fight climate change and strengthen the economy, consumerism as a tool to fight climate change, and building solar farms on abandoned oil and gas wells.
We all understand that climate change is bad and that we should do something to stop it, but why then do we all struggle to put our money where our mouth is. People want to invest in companies that are taking steps to reduce their carbon footprint, but they fear being made to look like a fool. Carbon markets used to be seen as a scam, a way for people to profit from climate change. But with new technology comes the ability for buyers to actually see what they are buying. Pachama is one company trying to make the carbon market more transparent and trustworthy. By using remote sensing and deep learning technology, Pachama is able to map forest carbon capture overtime, allowing buyers to actually see what they are paying for. The carbon market is one way we can put our money where our mouth is and invest in the fight against climate change.
Sustainability is a buzz word in our society today. Everyone hears the word, but do we really understand the idea? Sustainability encompasses all aspects of human life, it helps us to define our success on this planet from economic prosperity, social justice, healthcare, happiness, and of course environmental integrity. Sustainability is the way forward. In his book, Sustainability-A history, Jeremy L. Caradonna describes not only the history of the sustainability movement but the benefits of, and arguments for, why it is our best hope to continue to thrive as a society deep into the future. Sustainability is in everyone’s best interest.
Getting outdoors during this pandemic has been stressful. Which it is not supposed to be. Where are the lines we don’t want to cross? The lines between keeping yourself and the public safe and enjoying your outdoor activities. Should you see friends outside? What about traveling to your favorite lake or hiking trail? The Alberta Conservation Association weighs in on how we can all be safe and still enjoy the outdoors. Then we speak to Ellen Macdonald from the University of Alberta about how post-secondary has been affected? How do you keep students engaged? Test them? Do research? Most importantly, keep their education coming and not hold back the careers of our future environmental leaders.
So a global pandemic has ruined your hiking plans. Clearly, there are more important things to worry about right now, but getting out in nature is how many of us relax and reset. How can we enjoy the outdoors and help ourselves manage the stress of our situation without putting public health at risk? How can we connect to nature when we are stuck inside? On the other hand, what about our jobs? What about the mills we depend on for sustainable materials. The material we use to build our homes and make medical-grade masks. How are our sustainable business coping with the pandemic?
The majority of northern Alberta is covered in thick forest, but it may have looked very different only 100 years ago. What is now dense mixedwood forest once contained a vast network of grasslands, supporting the iconic bison and a multitude of First Nations people. This landscape has been changed, not because people took it over, but because they were kicked out. First Nations people used to burn this landscape at regular intervals in order to maintain grassland ecosystems that supported their way of life, as well as the many species that depended on it, like the bison. In the 1920’s, First Nations people were prohibited from practicing their cultural traditions, and wildfire suppression became the policy of the day. As a result, the forest took over and we lost a very unique landscape. Dr. Patricia McCormack tells us about how we know this happened and what we can learn from it.
Imagine traveling across the grasslands of North America and needing to take a three-day rest stop between destinations because there is a heard of 100,000 Bison slowly grazing their way across the landscape. That would have been the norm less than 200 years ago. Before the commercial hunt of the late 1800s, tens of millions of these bovine behemoths covered the land. They were the most prominent large mammal on the continent for thousands of years, shaping landscapes, creating habitat and defining the wild. From a low of roughly 1000 individual Bison in the 1880s, today we have managed to bring back this species from the brink of extinction through 100 years of hard-fought conservation efforts. Bison were crucial to the original inhabitants of Canada roughly 13,000 years ago and they are responsible for building the thriving economy we enjoy today in North America. We owe Bison a great deal.
How can we find proof of what happened in the past? Written accounts by the people of the day are helpful, but how can we prove what they are saying is factual and not just one person’s biased assessment? Luckily, when it comes to our natural world we have the most reliable eye witness…trees. Tree rings hold within them the story of the past, they can tell us all kinds of things about climatic conditions, fires, floods, droughts, forest pest outbreaks, and more. Archeology holds tree ring data as one of the most dependable timestamps, they even use it to truth carbon dating. The study of tree rings, Dendrochronology, is a fascinating world of discovery that has delivered much to our understanding of the past, and therefore our future.
Where does your drinking water come from? What protects your home from floods? Where is 60 percent of all the carbon stored in Canadian soils? What provides habitat for countless species of ducks, songbirds, insects, and rodents? … Wetlands.
The National Boreal Program of Ducks Unlimited Canada watches over the roughly 1 million square Kilometers of wetlands in Canada’s Boreal Forest. If you want an answer about wetlands, you talk to them. So that’s what I did. The National Manager for the Boreal Program Kevin Smith and a Remote Sensing Specialist Michael Merchant came on the podcast to discuss their work and the importance of wetlands to society and the integrity of our natural world.
Photo credit to ©DUC
An ice age relic living among us, Caribou are perhaps a remnant of an age long gone. Woodland Caribou are a beautiful, important, and yet many claim, a very poorly adapted species. In the cold northern wetlands of the Boreal forest, they have survived by living out of reach of predators. Woodland Caribou occupy a delicate niche that is highly susceptible to change. As such, they are at increased risk of extirpation. In Canada, there is a growing effort to help restore Woodland Caribou habitat to a state that allows for sustainable populations to exist. One major hurdle facing restoration is the vast network of seismic lines that riddle the Boreal forest from oil and gas exploration. Millions of kilometers of straight lines through the forest canopy open up travel for predators. Couple that with climatic changes and low birth rates, and this delicate species is facing a challenging future. Luckily, there is hope. Many companies have dedicated funding to research and restoration efforts to find answers to the caribou problem. Scott Nielsen’s Applied Conservation and Ecology Lab has found some answers.
Many people spend much of their time in the outdoors hoping to achieve something. Whether it’s hiking to the peak of a mountain, catching the biggest fish, harvesting an animal, or running the furthest distance, we often forget to enjoy the little things. Bruce is a lifelong outdoor writer, and he prides himself on being able to capture the emotion of a moment, allowing his readers to feel that moment again. His attention to the little details allows readers to journey to memories they forgot they had. Bruce is not trying to sell an idea or opinion, just providing a connection to our own memories of the outdoors. His book “One Last Cast- reflections of an outdoor life” is an incredible journey for all readers to find their own wilderness ideas within themselves. Outro song “The Creek” was written by Edmonton musician Sarah Masterman and performed by herself and Nadine Veroba.
Living harmoniously with wildlife is not something western society has been able to do very well in the past. That being said, in the last few decades we have witnessed a societal push for more sustainable management of our wildlife species and wild places. With these values in mind we find ourselves asking what can we do better? How can we alter our own behaviour in a way that makes living with bears easier. Courtney Hughes has been researching the social dimensions of bears, and other wildlife, for years now and has some thoughts on how we can create successful interactions between bears and all land users.
Climate change has already begun to cause problems for forest management in Canada. These challenges can be difficult to recognize, and even more daunting to solve. However, with some change in perspective, we can begin to find simple solutions to large problems. Sheri and Mark have dedicated their professional lives to finding ways to help industry, and other stakeholders, tackle this seemingly overwhelming challenge of adapting to climate change. This problem does not require a new management system, just a new perspective and real engagement.
Indigenous people have lived in the Boreal forest since time immemorial, depending on the land for the health of their culture and community. Since colonization, it has become increasingly more difficult for them to acquire what they need as more and more people utilize the resources for their own purposes. As environmental professionals we have a professional and moral obligation to, first and foremost, protect the public resource. Those resources include indigenous rights and traditional use. More needs to be done to create an environment of cooperation and trust so that we can move into the future together to create a better tomorrow for everyone. During this conversation, we do an overview of a conference put on by the Canadian Institute of Forestry regarding indigenous consultation. Lots of emotion, frustration and great conversation.
How can we sequester more carbon, reduce the use of herbicide, produce more wood fibre, all while approaching a more "natural” method of forest regeneration? Phil thinks there may be a way. We discuss how the Boreal forest regenerates naturally, how we have historically regenerated after forest harvest and why there is such a gap between these two things. The first 27 minutes is just an overview of natural succession, setting the foundation for this discussion. Then we jump into the nitty gritty details of why it may be important to start transitioning cutblock regeneration into something more approaching natural forest succession, and how we can start to do that.
Grizzly bears are the second-largest land predator on the planet, next to the polar bear. They hold such mystique and wonder in our society and have come to represent "true wilderness" in the eyes of many. They are a truly incredible animal that needs to be protected for future generations to enjoy. Scott and I discuss the state of grizzly bears in Alberta, population levels, habitat, etc. We eventually get to talking about the effects of human disturbance on grizzly population numbers and how we can better manage our forests for these massive creatures. The answer may be more complicated then you think.
Forests hold many values for human kind. From housing species at risk and cleaning our water supply to economic prosperity and cultural empowerment. Objectivity, in deciding which of these values needs attention, is needed to make sure we don’t get over-focused on one specific issue while neglecting the others. The Forest Resource Improvement Association of Alberta (FRIAA) is an organization dedicated to improving forest resources for the people of Alberta. This means staying objective while deciding which programs to fund. Todd Nash is the Manager of FRIAA and came in to talk about how the success of this non-profit has lead to better forests for everyone and how we can maintain objectiveness in management.
‘Good Fire’ is a podcast series about cultural burning around the world. I was fortunate enough to get to be a part of the conversations, even though my contribution was often one of ignorant questions. It is a great series that delves into the conversations around cultural burning and its impacts on local communities and environment. Today’s episode is the second of the ‘Good Fire’ series, we spoke to two gentlemen in Australia about their connection to the land and what burning means to their mobs and the larger Australian public.
What makes biodiversity so important? Why is it so often discussed in environmental writing? How do we measure what a healthy amount of biodiversity looks like? Can you have too much, to little? What about human impact and its effect on biodiversity? Tara Narwani is the science communicator at The Alberta Biodiversity Monitoring Institute (ABMI), and she came on to discuss these questions.
In 1919, soldiers were returning home from World War 1, the average family was getting around using horses, and the new population of Canada was seeking to settle into farm country and prosper. Clearing land was an essential part to homesteading back then, as such, many fires were lit to burn brush to build “productive” agriculture land. With no resources available to fight forest fires, once a fire was lit it tended not to stop. With over 2 million hectares burned over 10 days, multiple fatalities and burned communities, this fire was one of the largest and most catastrophic wildfires in Canadian history. Peter J. Murphy has spent the last 3 and a half decades researching these fires that were almost lost to the history books. An incredible story.
Grind and pound…I bet you didn’t expect this episode to be about tree planting, did you? But apparently that’s exactly what’s needed to be a good tree planter, you have to ‘grind’ your way through the bad weather and rough terrain, and ‘pound’ your way through tree after tree until the workday is done. Wilson spent 10 years in this world grinding and pounding trees till the cows come home. He has since joined the planning side of the plant and is a silvicultural forester organizing plants and many other crucial aspects of forest regeneration. We discuss the reality of planting and get into some of the basics behind how we decide what to plant where and why.
Conservation is a word we are all familiar with, but what does it mean really? There are so many ways to define conservation based on what you are measuring and what you hope to accomplish. To some, it is pure, untouched wilderness, void of human contact. To others, protecting a small wetland or riparian area is also success. What about our role in protecting species from extirpation or extinction? What is our obligation? Do we spend countless millions of dollars protecting one charismatic species because public perception says it is important, while other, equally as important, species blink out of existence because we haven’t made a movie about them yet? How do we make the hard decisions, the ones no one wants to make?
Healthy landscapes are something everyone wants. But what does that mean? How do we define what “health” in a landscape looks like? How do we know that we are correct in our assumptions? How do we know the parameters we use to measure sustainability are objective? How do we find out what is right for ecological health and resilience? David Andison has spent decades researching these questions and their answers. We dove into the depths of how we manage our natural world, where we may be going wrong, and where we need to be headed. The first 46 minutes is very philosophical, discussing the mindset and society needed to create healthy landscapes. The last 44 minutes was more specific around age-class distributions, habitat availability, and forest management.
Sustainability starts with education. If we want to see a sustainable future, one where we focus on the importance of ecology, conservation and sustainable energy, we need to spend time instilling environmental values on the children of today. Forest education is at the forefront of creating an eco-centric future. We need to teach our children the excitement and wonder that exists in our forests and natural ecosystems, it is crucial to a better future. MJ and Patti have worked for the last 19 years building a forest education system that helps build relationships and lasting change. MJ is the executive Director for the Lesser Slave Lake Forest Education Society(LSFES) and Patti is the Executive Director of the Boreal Center for Bird Conservation(BCBC), which is a partnership between Alberta Parks and the Lesser Slave Lake Bird Observatory(LSLBO). Together, MJ and Patti make an unstoppable team of learning power. We discussed the importance of building environmental values, how to get people excited and methods for building your own forest education system.
We all want healthy forest ecosystems, clean water and vibrant communities. We can achieve these goals through sustainable forest management(SFM). However, we need to continue to push the boundaries of what SFM is in order to ensure we don’t miss something. This means constant research, consultation and not being afraid to change how we do things in order to protect all values for all people, for ever. Indigenous people have been on this continent for thousands of years living with the land, instead of trying to tame it. Indigenous values have been all but lost in our society, and indigenous people have knowledge to offer that could help us better define SFM. We need to find a way to help indigenous communities feel heard and respected, so they can feel safe to share and help us all move towards a better system of forest management. Fabian is one man trying to bridge that gap between the western model and the indigenous one, to help us find a new and better path forward together.
Fire is a crucial part of the boreal forest. Without it the whole system falls apart. First Nations people have been using fire as a tool to manage the forest and help maintain ecosystem health for thousands of years. They would regularly burn the landscape, under safe and manageable conditions, in order to achieve very specific and controlled outcomes. These outcomes include habitat creation, growth of specific plants for medicine or food production, improved grazing land for ungulates, etc. Along with many environmental benefits that existed from indigenous burning, there was also a deeply cultural aspect. Indigenous people say that burning provided them with a connection to the land that was directly tied to community health. With burning outlawed the last century, many communities have lost the ability to connect to their culture and feel empowered by their ancestral knowledge. Amy Cardinal Christianson is an indigenous fire researcher trying to get cultural burning back on the land to rejuvenate forest health and ultimately for the benefit of all people.
We don’t know a planet like this. There is more CO2 in the atmosphere today then there has ever been in the entirety of human evolution, which is over 3 million years. This means that the greenhouse effect is in full swing and even if we stopped greenhouse gases today, the earth would continue to warm beyond what we have ever known. Adaptation is a necessity, and we need to be ready. It’s not the end of the world, but it is the end of the world we know. Jason Edwards has a positive and hopeful message about how we can begin to adapt to our changing environment. He has spent a long time collaborating and researching adaptation and how best to go about it. We have the tools and knowledge to make this happen, so let’s get started.
I thought we could take a look back into our history to see how we got here, and perhaps tease out what might happen next. I wanted to talk to someone with first hand experience with the evolution of sustainability and environmental stewardship. Luckily, I knew a guy. Peter Murphy is a legend in environmental management circles. He has devoted the last 70 some odd years of his life to environmental integrity. He even remembers when the word “sustainability” was first coined. He has a wealth of knowledge and he is worth listening to. Without him, we would likely not be where we are today in regards to sustainability.
Wildfires are becoming more and more of a problem for modern society. In the past decade, we have seen an unprecedented increase in the number of catastrophic fires. Climate change has lengthened the fire season, increased temperatures, and increased severity and longevity of droughts. These new conditions drastically increases the probability of catastrophic fires, as is evident by the community destroying fires we have seen in the last 8 years in California, British Columbia and Alberta. Firesmart is a way to protect your home and community from these threats…and it works. Laura Stewart is the President of Firesmart Canada and came on to give her thoughts on the issue, and what people can do to prepare for wildfires.
Chemicals used on our crops and forests are of huge concern to society in general. Especially after problematic pesticides, like DDT, nearly wiped out bald eagles in the United States some decades ago. Now we are ever on the lookout for the next culprit. Which chemical will be the next big problem that affects our children’s development, our water, environment? Luckily for us, after the DDT scare, science and regulators buckled down big time to prevent anything like that from happening again. There is now a rigorous set of guidelines and regulations to ensure anything we put on the landscape is healthy, safe, and will have no adverse unintended affects. Scientists developing these chemicals spend decades ensuring they are safe before they are even considered for commercial use. We discussed why we use chemicals, how we know they are not only safe but could be considered to be the most environmentally supportive system, and the problems that would arise if we stopped using them completely. I know you are shaking your head, thinking “this guy is full of it”…I promise that this is the truth, backed by science. Don’t believe me, fine. At least listen to what the environmental toxicologist has to say, he studies this for a living.
Wildlife conservation is often a sad story. We hear that some species has been pushed to the edge of extinction because of us, and our lack of foresight or empathy. Until recently, Trumpeter Swans were not very different. Through nearly a century of effort, cross border partnerships, intense research and passionate nature lovers, we were able to make a difference in this species’ future on the planet. Mark Heckbert has been leading this battle in Alberta for over a decade and has a true passion for his work. His understanding and appreciation for this amazing species makes him the perfect person to discuss their resurrection, from less then 100 swans to the many thousands that exist today. This is a true conservation success story that would not be possible without generations of hard work and dedication in, what seemed to be, insurmountable odds.
Humans are naturally curious beings. We want to know why, how and what is going on in the world around us. Science is the only tool we have to help us sort out the truth from the misconceptions. The scientific community is ruthless in its scrutiny and it will not ease up on any research that doesn’t hold up to logic. Science doesn’t care how you feel or what your bias’ may be, all logical fallacies are inevitably found out and exposed. Science leaves us with the truth as best we can measure and observe it using the technology of our time. The laws of nature are fixed, and our understanding of them is ever moving forward toward a complete comprehension. But only through science are such discoveries possible. Matthew Pyper came on to discuss the scientific method and how we might start to think about how we communicate science, and how we can bring more people into its understanding.
We buy so much of our food. As a result, we have next to no connection to what we put into our bodies. Where did it come from, how was it growing, what was next to it, what was the weather like, what did we have to go through to get it. The forest is a natural grocery store. We can forage leafy greens, berries, mushrooms, root vegetables, eat meat that we harvested ourselves and we know exactly where it all came from. There is now a story that goes with that food that makes you more connected to the landscape and more appreciative of the calories that will become your own body. Kelly came on to discuss all sorts of things we can forage from our forests.
Best two books for foraging food in western Canada according to Kelly:
Plants of the Western Boreal Forest & Aspen parkland by Johnson, Kershaw, MacKinnon and Pojar
Mushrooms of Western Canada by Helen M.E. Schwalkijk-Barendsen
Only a select few species have the ability to manipulate their environment to make a suitable home. Humans are one such species, beavers are another. They are ecological engineers, meaning they build and create habitat for many species. They are a keystone species that creates unique opportunities for biodiversity on the landscape. They also tend to consume all the resources in an area until they are forced to move on, again, kinda like people. Not only are they ecologically important, but they are responsible for North America’s original economic prosperity. Beaver fur was one of the reasons for the expansion westward across North America. We owe this little creature a great deal, from habitat creation to our original economy. Bill Abercrombie came on to discuss the full range of their importance.
Imagine traveling from Canada to Argentina every year, and back again. Sounds kinda nice actually, only you need to travel using only the tools nature gave you. Even with wings this is a tremendous task. Wildlife biologist, Richard Krikun and the Executive Director of the Boreal Center for Bird Conservation (BCBC), Patti Campsall joined me to discuss the creatures that make that journey. We discussed the tool kit used to capture population numbers and the science behind it. How far do they travel, how long do they live, where do they live, how do we measure them, how do we catch them, how can we better manage the forest to maximize bird habitat, and much more.
http://www.lslbo.org/
When it comes to a career path, a lot of people, including myself, spend their lives following societal norms. We want more money, more prestige, more whatever. Michelle is in love with wildfire fighting, and she knows it. After a full career in wildfire management, she recognized that she was happier and more fulfilled when she was back on the front lines, where she had started her career. Now, she leads a 20 person unit crew stomping out flames all season long. The grit and adrenaline of the line just kept on calling her home. We discussed her career path, resistance, leadership techniques, building a cohesive team you can trust, and much more. This episode is not strictly based on environmental sciences, but it is relevant nonetheless.
There is no better way to connect with nature than to immerse oneself completely into the wilderness and unplug from the hustle of modern society. Arguably, one of the best ways to accomplish complete immersion is to take up bowhunting. Some of you may scoff at the notion of needing to kill something to connect, however, what other activity forces you to endure all that nature has to offer for days or even weeks on end while hiding one's existence from all other living creatures. Remaining completely still and quite for entire days, through the cold and wet with nothing but your thoughts and the wild to keep you company. Hunting allows you the opportunity to notice things about nature that go unnoticed by most everyone else. Brent Watson is a lifelong hunter and the President of the Alberta Bowhunters Association. He came on to discuss the importance of hunting in his life and to society, as well as the emotions that come with the experience.
Arctic Grayling and Bull Trout are two species of fish that are of special concern in Alberta. Both have had tough times recently due to human impacts on their environment. Poor water crossings, over fishing, climate change, and sedimentation has all had a degrading cumulative impact on population numbers. Both fish are native to the waters and can be conserved if proper steps are taken. Luckily, groups like the Alberta Conservation Association have people like Mike Rodtka, the fish loving angler and researcher, to take up the cause and help ensure this resource is on the landscape for future generations to enjoy. We had a great conversation around these beautiful fish. We discussed habitat, life cycle, how fun they are to catch, factors affecting population decline, societal values and a great deal more.
In the past, forest management was done with mainly wood fiber in mind. Today we practice a much richer and dynamic approach to forest management. By taking into consideration all forest values we can achieve a more harmonious and truly sustainable system. Values such as soil and water quality, wildlife habitat and conservation, wood fiber and socio-economic impacts all play a role in the decision matrix that is sustainable forest management. In the book “Learning From The Landscape” Robert Bott and Robert Udell have described the making of such a system of management. The book describes the establishment of “model” forests in which we today design our forest management plans. These forests where meant to be a place where research could take place in order to inform best practices. Robert Bott and myself discussed the book and its many topics.
February 7, 2009 is known in Australia as Black Saturday. Close to 400 wildfires started that day, 173 people died and many homes and communities were lost. Preceding these fires was an unprecedented 8 year drought that created one of the most volatile and dangerous wildfire situations on record. Harold Larson is a Canadian wildland firefighter that was working his first summer in Australia when the fires happened. In his book “Fire In The Eucalypts” he describes everything from his arrival, training, fire fighting techniques and tactics, the climatic situation, the relationships he built, and his narrow escape from death on Black Saturday. We discussed his book and how we might learn from those fires.
We all live in a world with finite resources. With a growing population, we need to start being more resourceful and efficient. There is strain on both the agricultural and energy systems to keep up with demand in a sustainable way. We, as individuals, can help relieve that strain by being responsible for our own consumption, or at least a small part of it. Whether you have a garden, collect your own water, or create your own energy, every little bit of pressure we take off helps to improve our lives and our planet. Permaculture is a means by which to live sustainably and to be responsible for your own piece of the pie. Kurtis has made it his goal to help people by teaching or helping others make their own property more sustainable.
The importance of understanding where we have been so we do not make the same mistakes twice can not be understated. Understanding the role resources like coal and fossil fuels played in our societies development and prosperity help us to comprehend where we would be without them, likely burning whale fat in our lamps and heating ourselves with wood stoves riding horses and spending most of our time trying to feed ourselves. At the same time we see the consequences of our decisions through changing climates, decreases in biodiversity and historical photos that depict where a mountain once stood but now there is only a mine. History forces us to recognize the impacts of our decisions. Liza is a professor at the University of Alberta where she teaches environmental history. Topics discussed: history of coal in Canada, the year without a summer, reclamation, the Mountain Legacy Project, missing mountains, national parks, environmental consciousness, pipelines, multiple use values, never cry wolf.
What happens to wood after it has served its purpose. Construction and demolition material, sawdust, wood chips, pallets, old furniture, harvest residues, all gets either thrown into a landfill or burned. Wood waste is a resource just like anything else and we can utilize that resource to create a number of products that can assist in climate change mitigation and increase sustainability. Wood waste can be used to create ethanol, biochar, wood pellets, it can be re-purposed like barn wood and put back into our homes, or even broken down into its component parts and re-engineered into a new wood product to be sold on the market. The potential exists to make a greener economy when it comes to wood waste, we just have to take the first steps. Jim Donaldson is one person trying to promote wood waste recycling in Canada. He is trying to build a community of like minded people and companies to build a sustainable wood-waste recycling industry that will be good for the environment and the economy, win-win.
https://cdnwoodwasterecycling.ca/
Stuck! Stranded in the bush with no radio or cell coverage. What do you do? Where to begin? Shelter? Fire? Food? Water? Kelly Harlton is an expert in bushcraft and primitive skills. He has been teaching himself, and others, all he can about the boreal forest and how to "survive" in it for decades. From fire and shelter building, water and food acquisition to how to make tools and clothes from your surroundings, he knows so much. On this episode we focused on the most important and basic survival skills. How to survive up to 72 hours in the bush, statistics say that is probably the longest you will have to wait. We focused on Fire, Water and Shelter. I cant wait to have him on again to talk in detail about finding food and an infinite number of other subjects. The knowledge is deep with this one.
Millions of people every year take to the mountains and surrounding forest to take in our planets beautiful scenery, flora and fauna. These experiences often give people pause and allow us to rethink our place in this world. David is a longtime member and past Chair of the Alberta Hiking Association and was kind enough to come on and discuss hiking and what it has done for his life and how it could improve others. Topics discussed include: Nature appreciation, Yellowstone wolf introduction, Bear Jams, Alberta Hiking Association, ATVs in parks, Irresponsible users, Confluence visiting, Clearcuts, Wildfire, Trans Canada Trail, and much more.
What happens to the trees in your backyard after they are taken down? Do you know? Often the arborist will buck it up, turn into fire wood, chip it for other uses, but what about turning it into art? A lot of the wood in our cities is not looked at as a valued resource after it is removed. Eric from Relic Woodworks is one person trying to give those trees a "second life". He has a system in place to receive trees from private property and turn them into opportunity for artists, craftsmen and carpenters. He mills them into live edge wood for peoples appreciation. Using a solar kiln and small sawmill to fulfill his dream of allowing people to appreciate the beauty of wood. We talked about his beginnings and operation, appreciation of trees, beauty of live edge wood, fulfilling your dreams and following your passion, clearcuting, sustainable forest practices and much more.
Recorded on the top of Mt.Solomon near Hinton, Alberta, Canada. We talked about the Mountain Legacy Project, a project that replicates photos taken nearly 100 years ago in order to do comparative analysis and learn from our past. Rick has a wealth of knowledge regarding historical resources and I just loved being able to talk to him and Sonia while looking over the rocky mountains. We discussed the importance indigenous burning, the need for fire, forest management, people as part of the landscape rather than a pest, the cyclical nature of the forest, forest succession, conservation, and a great deal more. This was my favorite podcast to record and the conversation was more than intriguing. Link to their awesome and work below.
http://mountainlegacy.ca/
Forests provide all kinds of value to our lives, from picturesque views, habitat for animals to the oxygen we breath and much more. Everyone can see the benefits of wild places and natural forests but we often negate the habitat in our back yards. Urban forests play a huge role in our day to day lives that we often don't appreciate. Cleaning the pollution from our air, reducing energy costs through insulating our neighborhoods, reducing the effects of wind and rain, and much more while simultaneously providing that warm and comfortable feeling we all associate with the presence of trees. Crispin is the Parks Manager and Urban Forester for the city of Edmonton. He came on to discuss the role of urban forests in our lives and provide some insight into their value. Cool link below to see the exact value of each tree in Edmonton, from energy savings, oxygen produced, carbon sequestered and much more.
https://www.opentreemap.org/edmonton/map/
My favorite lecturer, Marty Luckert a resource economics professor from the University of Alberta, came on to discuss the feasibility of biofuels in today's market. Ethanol is a fuel created from organic matter, we mix it into our gasoline and many other uses. If the organic matter being used is sustainable then the ethanol product can be considered carbon neutral as opposed to fossil fuels that releases excess carbon into the atmosphere. We may be able to harness the power of trees and other organic matter to create a more sustainable fuel, although there are still many questions around the economics and science of such a fuel. We discussed how ethanol is made, what it can be made from, how efficient it is, where it may play a role in the future, forest harvest residue vs dedicated ethanol plantations, true market value of fossil fuels, carbon tax, societal values, economic literacy, educating the public, differing values, and much more.
Wildfires seem to have become more of a problem for communities in recent years. With so many rural towns and municipalities surrounded by forest land destined to burn it has become apparent that Firesmart activities are needed to keep them safe. Firesmart is a management system that helps reduce wildfire risk. The pelican mountain project is a research site dedicated to testing wildfire activity through different types of vegetation management. Basically they are doing a bunch of different things to the landscape and setting it on fire to see what happens. From different mulching techniques, pruning and other methods they are building a baseline for us to understand the fuel types that are created after Firesmart vegetation management has taken place. We discussed Firesmart principals, Slave Lake and Fort McMurry fires, specifics around vegetation management for reducing fire behavior and risk, planting larch to reduce fire risk, fire risk in Jasper after pine beetle attack, First Nations involvement, and much more.
Imagine using building materials that require 10 times more energy and other resources to create in order to build your home. That's what we are doing when we use concrete, brick, steel and other metals. Wood is the simple answer to this problem. Wood is vastly more sustainable in every way than these other traditionally used products, and with new technology we are able to utilize wood in ways we couldn't in the past. This makes it easier and more reliable to build with wood then ever before. Shafraaz is an architect with experience building sustainable and net zero buildings. He came on to discuss the sustainability of wood and other products. We also got really into the specifics behind building a self sufficient home with solar, geo-thermal and other such sustainable energies in the last half of the podcast.
People tend to find a cause they care about and stick to it to make sure it is represented. Often times at the detriment to adjacent and equally important causes, not out of hate but out of ignorance. Arguably the best approach for finding answers to big questions, like ecosystem management, is to see the WHOLE picture. Focus is good, it drives us, makes us better, but it can also make us blind. EBM is an idea where we come together as stakeholders and land users to manage the ecosystem as a whole and understand the impacts each action has on every value from water quality, habitat, carbon storage and economics. David is an Adjunct Professor with the UBC Forestry program as well as a consultant and head of the Healthy Landscapes Program for FRi Research. He came on to add to what Ed had to say last week. Everyone has an idea of what EBM is, so the more opinions you here the better you can understand it.
FRi Research put on a workshop to discuss ecosystem based management(EBM) with multiple stakeholders and land managers. This workshop came with a lot of great ideas and perhaps a new way of thinking about landscape management. EBM is a way of thinking about the entire ecological picture instead of focusing on individual aspects like timber, biodiversity, water, habitat, etc. EBM gets us to look at all the values and manage them simultaneously creating a more holistic and well balanced approach to ecological management. Ed Grumbine, currently the Land Programs Director for the Grand Canyon Trust, is also known as one of the founders of this way of thinking and he was kind enough to come speak with me about this concept. Thanks to FRi for putting this on and there is one more episode on this to come with David Andison next week.
Imagine a disease that eats away at the neurons in your brain creating holes. This disease is fatal but will take years to kill you as your mind and body slowly waste away. By the way, its infectious and easily transmittable. That is CWD. It affects animals in the deer family, white-tail deer, mule deer, moose and elk. This degenerative disease was first discovered in a captive environment but is now found in wild populations of animals in much of the United States as well as Alberta and Saskatchewan. It can survive outside its host for years, making any place where infected animals live an infectious area even after the animals are long gone. It is truly a worrying situation and one that we need to try to understand and manage as much as possible. Catherine is a research scientist that has been monitoring and working on CWD in Alberta for many years. She came on to explain this disease, what it is, where it came from, how it spreads, and what we can do.
Links for the Canadian Wildland Fire Information System (CWFIS) and on it you can find the National Burned Area Composite dataset (NBAC) for downloading end-of-season fire perimeters.
Topics discussed: Definition of remote sensing, Earth Observation Satellites, Mapping wilderness fires, LiDAR, Measuring trees, Better Data=Better Management, Photogrammetry, Drone technology and its application, Artificial intelligence, Future of natural resource data.
This is an old recording I did from last year. It was the 4th episode I ever did but I think it might be one of the most important ones. Michael is an indigenous policy coordinator for the government of Alberta and he came on to discuss indigenous history and culture. He spoke a lot to his own experience and about the trauma that these communities have faced in the past and how that affects forest management today. He was incredibly honest and truthful about his personal experiences and a very down to earth guy. This is my favorite episode ever. Thanks Mike
Wood is used to build our homes, create paper so we can right literature and history and build beautiful pieces of art and furniture that we cherish for its natural beauty, but we have barely scratched the surface of woods capacity. With new technology we can build taller, stronger, more fire resistant and more beautiful buildings. Vancouver now has a building 18 stories tall built from wood, and potential exists for us to go taller yet. These structures are not only functional and meet all safety standards but are absolutely gorgeous to behold. Nothing quite warms up a room like wood grain. In this episode I talked with Rory Koska from Wood-Works about the potential of wood buildings and why they are a better alternative in many cases to steel and concrete. Topics discussed include changing specs, cross laminated timber, glulam, laminated veneer lumber, fires resistance, how tall can we go, high density wood products, beauty of wood, sustainability of wood, and much more.
Hunting and fishing are seen by many people to be barbaric activities that no ethical person would do, or even more misguided, they think it is mindless and easy. People see the depictions of hunters as middle aged men riding around in a pickup truck drinking beer and shooting everything in sight for the pure joy of the kill. I promise you this could not be further from the truth. Hunting and fishing takes years to understand and master and requires infinite patience and skill to do right. It changes the way you think about food, and your connection with it. You see the full journey from hoof to plate and you appreciate everything that went into getting that meat to your families table. You will never throw out an once of anything you have harvested yourself. I would argue hunters and anglers are more attached and thankful for their food then any non-hunter/angler. Tom Habib came on to discuss the role of hunting and fishing in our society and why it is important. The BHA is a non-profit organization trying to get more people out into the wild. They are also trying to ensure the wild is there to enjoy for future generations.
Topics discussed include, Chronic Wasting Disease, ethics of hunting, connection to the land, requirements of good hunting and fishing, how to begin, issues facing the BHA, much more.
Carp fact Sheet : http://aep.alberta.ca/fish-wildlife/invasive-species/aquatic-invasive-species/documents/AIS-Quickfacts-PrussianCarp-May2015.pdf
Some interesting facts around fishing in Alberta relative to other provinces for some perspective on why fish capture limits are so low.
Ontario has 250,000 fish-bearing
lakes, with 585,000 licensed anglers,
or 2.3 anglers per lake.
Saskatchewan has 94,000 fish-bearing lakes,
with about 184,000 licensed anglers,
or 1.9 anglers per lake.
Alberta has only 800 lakes with fish,
but 250,000 licenced anglers, or
312 anglers per lake.
A few notes that Chris wished me to add post recording regarding some facts that we straightened out.
CPAWS was founded in 1963
Forest Management Unit R11 is managed by the Province not Clearwater County
The North Saskatchewan Glacier is in Banff Natioanl Park
The Ram River Coal Mine is a surface mine
The Regional Advisory Council has 27 members
And the RAC was released for comment on March 7th.
Also, he gave more detail regarding the specific breakdown of how the PLUZ’s where created because we didn’t give full detail while recording. Just know that it was more complicated then we discussed.
Mountain Pine Beetle has done a number on North American forests in the last decade. These tiny little insects carry a fungus that can choke out a full grown tree. With a terrifying reproduction rate and warmer winters these dirty little buggers have the potential to decimate our pine forests. Nadir Erbilgin came on to discuss these creatures and the risk.
Women in forestry is a topic not widely discussed. In the past forestry was typically a male dominated industry. Luckily that seems to be less and less true with every passing year. With more women enrolling in forestry and environmental sciences programs now then seemingly ever before, hopefully we are approaching a semblance of equality. Danielle came on to discuss her experience going to school and starting work as a forester in recent years.
Women have not always been traditionally found in forest careers. Luckily that has changed and we are seeing more women in forestry and environmental sciences than ever before. Bev Wilson has nearly 40 years of experience in the forest sector and was able to speak to a lot of the changes she has seen and experienced over the years. With a Career as a Senior Resource Analyst for the province of Alberta she is very excited about how good data can help us be better stewards. We talked about how she got her start, some of the challenges along the way, her passion for forest resource data and geographic information systems(GIS), and much more.
Genetics is a topic that is widely misunderstood. Fear of creating non-natural, GMO organisms has people turned off of the topic. Forest Genetics is one of these misunderstood subjects. We talked seed zones, selective breeding, progeny sites, ethics of putting genetically altered trees on the land, climate change and how we can plan for it and a great deal more.
Climate change, Chernobyl, asbestos, drought, fire. What do all these things have in common, they are all concerns that wildfire scientists and managers are keeping an eye on. Edward discuses these concerns in great detail in his book FIRESTORM, and he was kind enough to join me on the podcast to discuss it.
Fire is both a destructive and rejuvenating force in the Boreal forest. It can consume vast areas of vegetation while, at the same time, making room and creating habitat for new growth. In this episode we discuss some of the research being done by Ellen and Dan in relation to forest fires. We discuss the Fire Weather Index and its variables, Fort McMurray and Slave Lake wildfires, burn severity, new growth and much more.
WARNING, do not go looking for factual information in this episode. Three Foresters sit down to discuss why they got into forestry and shoot the bull for over an hour. Tony is the owner of Damaged Timber Apparel and he also discussed his vision with his company and how it is giving back to the environmental community.
The maintenance of biodiversity is a crucial measurement in studying ecological balance and recovery post disturbance. From invertebrates, vascular plants, non-vascular plants, birds, small mammals, trees, the EMEND study has researched it all. Dr. Ellen Macdonald came on to discuss the immensity of this study and the opportunity and answers it may provide. Cutblocks are not the environmental devastation you may think they are.
Discussion around how we know human activity has played a huge role in climate change. Details regarding increasing CO2 measurements in the atmosphere and its affect on temperature, precipitation, droughts, wildfire, natural subregions, seedzones, tree species migration, forest pests any much more.
Clearcuts, Monocrops, Deforestation, Environmental Damage. These are some of the descriptors one might find in popular culture concerning forest harvest. These are wildly misleading labels. Dr.Vic Lieffers has a lifetime of research on forest harvest and regeneration and he came on to help us all understand the truth about cutblocks and the regeneration process.
Forest resources must be protected and managed using the best available science of the time. In order to hold forest practitioners to that commitment, and accountable to the public, a regulatory body was formed. The Association of Alberta Forest Management Professionals is a newly formed regulatory body made of two previously independent ones. Ryan and I discussed the importance of accountable forest management and how that accountability is upheld.
Conservation is the sustainability of all species and habitat over time. This means we have to manage our forest ecosystems to ensure everything remains as sustainable as possible, not only select charismatic species. The Alberta Conservation Association helps with that. They provide a wide range of conservation services that help keep our province's natural resources around for generations.
Climate change has begun to demonstrate its impact on our lives and our planet. One such impact is on wildfire activity. Longer seasons mean higher probability of catastrophic fires. These fires have a drastic effect on our water quality. As more frequent and larger fires occur, our water resources are put at risk. Francois and I discuss his research into this problem.
Caribou again... another perspective on the caribou range plan to complete your understanding, or at least enhance your understanding. Tara is from CPAWS and she has some insight into the plan that may help us grasp the issue.
Caribou management is a controversial subject and we need to make sure anything we do will work. Ray and I discuss where the current caribou range plan draft may fall short.
The importance of historical resources can sometimes be forgotten. Kurtis and I discuss the importance of finding, recording and protecting archaeological finds before human disturbance takes place.
Question and Answer time. Derrick has a list of questions he was asked through the internet a few years back and we go through them trying to give relevant answers. Questions from how do we decide what to cut, whether or not cutblocks are hard on the ecosystem, Pine Beetle, all the way to have we seen a bear shit in the woods. Good stuff.
Caribou management is a touchy subject. Everyone has an opinion and no one knows for sure what the right thing to do is. Gilbert is a wildlife biologist with a lifetime of experience in studying many animals, including caribou. We go through the options of management around caribou and try to get to the bottom of it.
Wood products seem to be the same as they were 100 years ago, lumber, paper, etc. Same old, same old. NOT TRUE! The wood engineering industry is alive and strong and has new and interesting innovations regularly. Dalibor schools me in the many different ways wood fiber can be utilized.
There is a lot of misinformation out there on the internet for people o get caught up in regarding environmental management. Derrick and I discuss many things we see come up time and again that are just plain not true.
Brett and I go deeper into the topic of wildfire discusing the history of how and why we fight them as well as some of the policy envolved.
Biochar is a new tech that allows for prolonged sequestration of carbon as well as a great deal of other industrial uses that make it a fascinating new enterprise that has the potential to help change our world for the better.
The forest industry is historically a quiet one. People working in the industry tend to stay away from drama, and as a result no one knows anything about it. Work Wild is working towards changing that.
Colin and I discuss the basics around forest fires. The nature of wildfires and the management thereof.
Very truthful and honest perspective on indigenous culture and the hardships they have faced and how it affects the forest industry today.
Discussion around the most environmentally friendly building materials, air quality, green spaces, hunting, trapping, aboriginal use, biological diversity and charismatic megafauna.
More in depth discussion regarding some of the values that forest managers are planning for. Ecological as well as species biodiversity, soil and water protection, multiple use values, etc.
Introducing the idea of publicly owned forests and the basics behind sustainable forest management.