ABA Journal: Legal Rebels: Recent Episodes
Legal Talk Network
The ABA Journal Legal Rebels Podcast features men and women who are remaking the legal profession and highlights the pioneers who are changing the way law is practiced and setting the standards that will guide the profession in the future.
Thanks to the COVID-19 pandemic, working from home and communicating and collaborating via real-time communication tools has become the norm for many law firms and offices. The benefits of such arrangements are obvious. However, some firms, including several of the largest in the country, have begged to differ. Citing a need to maintain or preserve office culture and strengthen personal connections, these firms are now mandating at least four days in the office per week.
For decades, lawyers who worked in BigLaw could expect some version of the following: Work long hours, including nights and weekends, with minimal free time, giving up almost all semblances of a social life. The reward: money and a potential partnership. And if you didn’t like it, there was the door. And if you were having mental health or wellness issues, then suck it up and deal with it.
When technologically assisted review first started gaining traction in e-discovery in the 2010s, many of the same superlatives assigned to ChatGPT were used to describe this groundbreaking new process that purported to review documents faster and more accurately than humans. Lawyers would get hours and hours of time back, and clients would save tons of money.
In the United States, there has been very little movement toward establishing a regulatory framework at the federal level for artificial intelligence. Why is that? ChatGPT, the large language model released by OpenAI, is one of several such tools that have revolutionized the legal industry in a short amount of time, igniting debates about whether artificial intelligence has to be regulated—and by whom. The European Union recently took the first step toward passing the AI Act, whereby regulation would increase in proportion with the potential threat to privacy and safety that an AI system poses. China has also drafted rules to regulate AI.
There hasn’t been much progress when it comes to driverless cars. Most major car manufacturers have sunk hundreds of billions into developing and testing driverless cars; yet the finish line seems to be nowhere in sight. So what happened?
The metaverse is all the rage these days. Users can enter a virtual world where they can interact with people from all parts of the physical world, play games, engage in commerce and do a lot of other things. Some law firms have also seen the potential.
Programmed to communicate as if they were living, breathing people, AI chatbots function by asking you a series of questions and providing you with your available options. Lawyers, law firms and courts have even gotten into the act.
Thanks to nearly two-years of COVID-19-related shutdowns and sheltering-in-place orders, working from home has become the new normal. Face-to-face interactions have been replaced by meeting on real-time videoconferencing platforms such as Zoom, FaceTime or Microsoft Teams, while cloud-based collaborative programs have become absolutely vital if any work is to be done.
Immigration is an area of law that lends itself well to technological innovations. It is in that intersection in which immigration lawyer Greg Siskind does his work.
Are you struggling with debt? Do you have collectors breathing down your neck, threatening to repossess your property and filing lawsuits against you in court? For many Americans facing this dilemma, their options are fairly limited.
Facial recognition software is becoming a greater part of our everyday lives. But the technology is controversial and not without its critics. Questions about its accuracy—especially relating to recognizing minority faces—remain. Special thanks to our sponsors, Alert Communications and Smokeball.
Like many Americans, Jazz Hampton and two of his friends, Andre Creighton and Mychal Frelix, watched in horror as two fellow Minnesotans, Philando Castile and George Floyd, were killed by police officers following what seemed to be routine traffic stops. If only there had been a way to de-escalate those situations while protecting the rights of the person detained, as well as the law enforcement officer involved. So they came up with one. Special thanks to our sponsors, Alert Communications and Smokeball.
As a young personal injury litigator in Georgia, Gino Brogdon Jr. says he was accustomed to using different technology tools to manage his practice. But when Brogdon began working as a mediator, he realized that there were limited tech options to assist him in the alternative dispute resolution realm. Special thanks to our sponsors, Alert Communications and Smokeball.
The Innovation for Justice lab launched at the University of Arizona’s James E. Rogers College of Law in 2018 with the goal of designing, building and testing new solutions to addressing the justice gap impacting millions of Americans. Special thanks to our sponsors, Alert Communications and Smokeball.
Evisort co-founder Jake Sussman says when the company began developing its contract management and analysis platform, its goal was to use artificial intelligence as a last resort. But it soon became clear that AI was the only way to solve the contract challenges that Evisort wanted to help users tackle. Special thanks to our sponsors, Alert Communications and Smokeball.
AJ Shankar, the founder and CEO of e-discovery platform Everlaw, likes to say his company’s technology is designed to help clients find needles in a haystack. But he notes that the haystacks that law firms and corporate in-house teams have to confront have grown in size and complexity in recent years. This has prompted cloud-based Everlaw to enhance and broaden its e-discovery offerings. Special thanks to our sponsors, Alert Communications and Smokeball.
Law prof Michele Pistone says there aren’t enough immigration lawyers and pro bono attorneys to meet the demand of immigrants seeking legal assistance. This justice gap is a primary reason that she created a program to train paraprofessionals to handle legal work in the immigration realm. Special thanks to our sponsors, Alert Communications and Smokeball.
Wilson Sonsini Goodrich & Rosati announced last month that it had teamed up with Workiva Inc. to create an application that automates the S-1 form that companies must file with the U.S. Securities and Exchange Commission when going public. Special thanks to our sponsors, Alert Communications and Smokeball.
Priori is an online platform known for using data and technology to connect in-house legal teams with lawyers and law firms who can assist with a wide variety of projects. But Basha Rubin, CEO and co-founder at Priori, says the company noticed that clients were sometimes turning to its online marketplace for help with problems that “might be best solved by a ‘new law’ company or a nontraditional legal provider.” Special thanks to our sponsors, Alert Communications, Nota, and Smokeball.
Sonja Ebron and her wife, Debra Slone, saw firsthand how difficult it can be to represent yourself in civil cases through experiences they had being sued and suing others. Ebron says the couple’s legal battles spanning several different practice areas ultimately prompted them to develop a platform called Courtroom5, an online toolbox that helps self-represented litigants handle their cases from start to finish. Unlike many other technological tools for pro se litigants, Ebron says Courtroom5 is particularly well-suited to help people with complex civil matters and can be utilized by consumers nationwide. “Our goal is to simplify the process as much as possible for people who first of all really don’t want to be in court and secondly don’t have the legal background,” she says. The company, which is based in Durham, North Carolina, is also working to add a feature to help users connect with lawyers for a-la-carte services. In this new episode of the Legal Rebels Podcast, Ebron discusses the build-up to the launch of Courtroom5 in 2017 and breaks down the different ways the platform can assist users.
Special thanks to our sponsors, Alert Communications and Nota.
NextChapter’s success last year came in its first full year after being acquired by legal research company FastCase.
Special thanks to our sponsors, Alert Communications and Nota.
Two University of Chicago alums and technologists have developed a technology platform known as JusticeText, an AI-powered evidence management tool primarily geared toward public defenders.
Special thanks to our sponsors, Alert Communications and Nota.
A former assistant attorney general has created an AI-powered legal writing tool to help other lawyers craft case-winning briefs in an efficient manner.
Special thanks to our sponsors, Alert Communications and Nota.
When two women discussed starting their own law firm two years ago, the experienced in-house lawyers agreed that they should take a subscription-pricing approach with clients.
Special thanks to our sponsors, Alert Communications and Nota.
“You make a lot more money when you come work for us than you do at a traditional firm,” says Kevin Broyles, a co-founder and managing partner of FisherBroyles.
John Van Amsterdam says his law firm has prioritized frequent virtual contacts with new attorneys and staff, generating particularly good feedback from lateral hires.
Michael Ellenhorn, the founder and CEO of Decipher, says law firms would be wise not to quicken the hiring process too much.
For now, Don Fancher says Deloitte is focused in the United States on growing the legal business services practice that it launched in July.
L. Song Richardson, the dean at the University of California at Irvine School of Law, discusses with the ABA Journal's Lyle Moran how to making remote learning successful during a pandemic.
In recent years, a growing number of law firms reduced their brick-and-mortar office space as a way to cut costs and also better meet the changing workplace needs of their attorneys. Sherry Cushman says the COVID-19 pandemic has further enhanced the desire of firms to shrink their real estate footprint.
Judge Scott Schlegel talks about his initial tactics into delivering justice online and delve into how he and his court responded to COVID-19.
Chicago lawyer Kathy Ehrhart and her firm represented two of the three defendants in a civil case focused on alleged breach of contract concerning a real estate transaction. Though the video proceedings were not without some technical challenges, Ehrhart says the overall experience was better than she expected. "I think as time went on through the trial, we all felt an increasing ability to recapture some of those things that otherwise are lost," she says. Special thanks to our sponsor Alert Communications.
Supporters of broad reforms to how the legal profession is regulated must do a better job drawing the public into ongoing conversations in several states about such issues, says Paula Littlewood, the former longtime executive director of the Washington State Bar Association. "We need to break outside what I call the echo chamber of the profession and really start bringing the consumer and the public to the table to understand what changes could really enhance their ability to access legal services," Littlewood tells the ABA Journal's Lyle Moran in this episode of the Legal Rebels Podcast. "If you talk to a family member, you talk to a taxi driver and you explain the concept of a limited license legal technician, I can guarantee you that nine times out of 10 the answer is, 'Well, that totally makes sense.'" Special thanks to our sponsor Alert Communications.
When the novel coronavirus began rapidly spreading across the United States earlier this year, Kimball Dean Parker says he felt a strong desire to help consumers and businesses in need. Utah-based SixFifty set out to do what it does best: develop online tools to assist consumers of all types tackle complex legal challenges without breaking the bank. Special thanks to our sponsor Alert Communications.
Michael G. Heavican, the chief justice of the Nebraska Supreme Court, talks about the National Pandemic Summit that he hosted in May 2019 for court leaders across the country.
The online estate-planning platform Trust & Will saw at least a 100% increase in business in March amid the COVID-19 pandemic, according to Cody Barbo, the company’s CEO and co-founder. “I think that everybody has a family member who is elderly or has been affected by this or works in health care, so it definitely hits close to home,” says Barbo in this new episode of the Legal Rebels Podcast with ABA Journal Legal Affairs Writer Lyle Moran. Special thanks to our sponsor, Nexa.
Asked to reflect on his nine-year tenure as president of the Legal Services Corp., Jim Sandman says he is proud of many things that he and his team accomplished. Under Sandman’s leadership, the LSC produced its seminal work, which found that 86% of civil legal needs reported by low-income Americans in the past year were either inadequately addressed or not met at all. Special thanks to our sponsor, Nexa.
Thanks to social media and the internet, it’s never been easier—or more affordable—for lawyers to advertise. On the other hand, having so many avenues available to lawyers makes it more difficult for anyone to stand out from the crowd. So when Waco, Texas, lawyers Will Hutson and Chris Harris got more than 500,000 views on YouTube for a clip showing them playing guitars and singing about the legal consequences of swallowing, destroying or concealing marijuana in front of police officers, it was almost like winning the lottery. In this new episode of the Legal Rebels Podcast, Hutson and Harris speak with ABA Journal Assistant Managing Editor Victor Li. Special thanks to our sponsor, Nexa.
Legal academic publishing isn't synonymous with innovation. The mere mention of it can, for some, bring up repressed memories of the most banal and stuffy aspects of law school. But the Massachusetts Institute of Technology wants to change that. In spring 2019, MIT announced the MIT Computational Law Report. In this new episode of the Legal Rebels Podcast, technology writer Jason Tashea talks to Bryan Wilson, editor-in-chief of the online publication. Special thanks to our sponsor, Nexa.
Leaving BigLaw to start his own firm in 2011, Tor Ekeland quickly learned that his legal education was insufficient for the task at hand. To Ekeland, the edited cases law students spend three years reading don’t help graduates prepare for practice, which may include appearing before an overworked judge with limited attention or dealing with a lying client. The divide between law school and practice may be best illustrated by the lack of financial management courses, even though violating the client trust account is the “third-rail” of legal practice, according to Ekeland. Special thanks to our sponsor, Nexa.
The year 2017 was hailed as the "Year of Women in Legal Tech" based on a few high-profile acquisitions and hires. Kristen Sonday, the co-founder of Paladin, a pro bono management platform, however, took a look around and noticed that there were few other founders in the legal tech world who looked like her. So, Sonday set out to understand what the reality was: Was she blind to a cohort of female and minority founders, or did legal tech have a diversity problem? She talks to the ABA Journal’s Jason Tashea in this new episode of the Legal Rebels Podcast. Special thanks to our sponsor, Nexa.
In the United States, an estimated 70 million people have a criminal record. Being tagged with this scarlet letter can affect a person’s ability to find employment, housing and even potential relationships. Meanwhile, the expansion of freedom of information laws and the internet has changed how criminal records are used and who has access to them. These changes raise questions around the purpose of criminal records and the limits of legal remedies like expungement and sealing. To make better sense of these issues, Colleen Chien, a professor at Santa Clara University School of Law, and Sarah Lageson, an assistant professor at Rutgers University School of Criminal Justice, came together and talked to ABA Journal Legal Affairs Writer Jason Tashea about their research into the modern trials and tribulations of expungement, sealing and criminal records. Special thanks to our sponsor, Nexa.
In the latest episode of the Legal Rebels Podcast, ABA Journal Legal Affairs Writer Jason Tashea talks to legal tech blogger Bob Ambrogi and Andrew Arruda, CEO of artificial intelligence company Ross Intelligence, about what new technology and artificial intelligence can do for legal research. Special thanks to our sponsor, Nexa.
Ten years ago, Rodney Smolla was featured as a Legal Rebel for leading an innovative plan at Washington and Lee University School of Law to eliminate traditional third-year coursework and replace it with experiential learning. Many law schools opened clinics in the 1970s and 1980s, according to Smolla, but when Washington and Lee revised its 3L coursework in 2009, legal education for the most part had been unchanged for the past century. People had long thought that it was time for change, regardless of whether they were for or against experiential learning, Smolla tells the ABA Journal's Stephanie Francis Ward. Special thanks to our sponsor, Nexa and Thomson Reuters Westlaw Edge.
It's good to be seen as a "thought leader," but don't call yourself that in marketing materials, says lawyer, professor and small business owner Max Miller. "It should be evident," Miller told the ABA Journal's Stephanie Francis Ward in this episode of the Legal Rebels Podcast. "You shouldn't have to put it in your LinkedIn profile." Special thanks to our sponsor, Answer1 and Thomson Reuters Westlaw Edge.
Mark Britton, who founded and sold the online attorney ratings site Avvo, is taking a break. This helps with creativity but does cause him some discomfort. After his years of making money from attorneys on his site, he has some business development advice for the profession—zero in on groups of people who might hire you and figure out how they want to be spoken to, he tells the ABA Journal's Stephanie Francis Ward. Special thanks to our sponsor, Answer1 and Thomson Reuters Westlaw Edge.
When David Van Zandt became dean of what is now Northwestern University's Pritzker School of Law in 1995, he faced a steep learning curve, he tells the ABA Journal's Jason Tashea. But he had a good sense of the demands on recent graduates and lawyers. He also took on faculty hiring and tenure–a third rail in higher education–by hiring those for tenure track positions with not only JDs, but PhDs. Named an ABA Journal Legal Rebel in 2009, Van Zandt is now the president of the New School in New York. Whether grappling with political issues of the day or an oppositional faculty, Van Zandt has continually forged ahead for the changes he believes in. Special thanks to our sponsor, Answer1 and Thomson Reuters Westlaw Edge.
Before they were buzzwords, Luz Herrera was a pioneer in the world of "low bono" practice, nonprofit law firms and legal incubators. In this episode of the ABA Journal's Legal Rebels Podcast, Herrera speaks with Angela Morris about how a low-bono practice can enable a lawyer to balance the desire to help people with making a living. Special thanks to our sponsor, Answer1 and Thomson Reuters Westlaw Edge.
Jeff Carr has been on a 40-year path of improving lawyer efficiency and effectiveness. "There's an old saying that if you pay for service by the hour, you buy hours and not service," he says. "And I still believe that very much." In this episode of the Legal Rebels Podcast, Carr speaks with ABA Journal reporter Jason Tashea about why he came out of retirement, and how his principle of the Three Es calculated the value of legal services to clients. Special thanks to our sponsor, Answer1 and Thomson Reuters Westlaw Edge.
In the 10 years since Emery K. Harlan, co-founder of the National Association of Minority & Women Owned Law Firms, was featured as an ABA Journal Legal Rebel, he says little has changed for diversity in the profession. "I think it's stayed about the same," Harlan tells the ABA Journal's Stephanie Francis Ward. "The lesson we can take from diversity and inclusion is that there needs to be vigilance. There can never be a point where we can say we've achieved all there is to achieve. I think this year's [Am Law] partnership classes is an indicator of that." Special thanks to our sponsor, Answer1 and Thomson Reuters Westlaw Edge.
When Ralph Baxter joined the inaugural class of Legal Rebels in 2009, he was the CEO and chairman of Orrick Herrington & Sutcliffe. Just a year into the biggest recession since the Great Depression, he caught the ABA Journal’s attention through his initiatives that took Orrick from a domestic, California-based firm to an international heavyweight while navigating economic turbulence. Since leaving the firm in 2013—after 23 years as chairman–he has gone on to consult with law firms looking to improve their business and service models, sit on the board of LegalZoom and run for the U.S. House of Representatives as a Democrat from West Virginia in 2018. In this episode, he speaks with the ABA Journal’s Jason Tashea about where the profession has been and where he thinks it’s headed. Special thanks to our sponsor, Answer1 and Thomson Reuters Westlaw Edge.
Many lawyers are reluctant to new adopt legal technology, says Monica Goyal, who developed platforms including My Legal Briefcase, which helps parties in the Canadian small claims courts, and Aluvion Law, which uses automation to cut legal services costs for small businesses. "We think young lawyers are on Facebook, Twitter, they're using computers, and that somehow they will be more willing to try and experiment with new technology. I've found that's not the case," Goyal tells the ABA Journal's Stephanie Francis Ward in this episode of the Legal Rebels Podcast. Special thanks to our sponsor, Answer1 and Thomson Reuters Westlaw Edge.
Chatbots have a place in a law office because they can handle busy work that eats up precious time in a lawyer’s day, says LawDroid founder Tom Martin in this episode of the ABA Journal’s Legal Rebels Podcast. By wiping out such mundane tasks, it frees up time for meaningful human interactions between lawyer and client that no machine can master, he tells host Angela Morris. Special thanks to our sponsor, Answer1 and Thomson Reuters Westlaw Edge.
Perhaps in five to seven years, as Colin Rule sees it, half of U.S. citizens who file court cases will have access to online dispute resolution software walking them step by step through their matters, resolving up to 80 percent of cases. Rule, a nonlawyer mediator, is vice president for online dispute resolution at Tyler Technologies. In this episode of the ABA Journal’s Legal Rebels Podcast, Rule speaks with Angela Morris about the possibilities–and pitfalls–for this technology. Special thanks to our sponsor, Answer1.
Ken Adams has brought his contract expertise to LegalSifter, a Pittsburgh artificial intelligence startup. The 2009 Legal Rebel and author of “A Manual of Style for Contract Drafting” sat down to discuss his new venture with the ABA Journal’s Jason Taschea. Adams says LegalSifter is a system built with human expertise to address the fact that many customers are doing the same tasks when dealing with contracts. It’s a system that will excel at flagging issues that keep coming up, and he thinks the technology will be sophisticated enough to flag the issues for any one user. Special thanks to our sponsor, Answer1.
It’s too easy for attorneys to be aware that something isn’t perfect in their practices and accept the situation instead of pushing back. So says longtime legal innovator Nicole Bradick. “What it’s all about is identifying something not working as well as it should be and thinking of possible solutions,” says Bradick, who in January launched a legal technology company, Theory and Principle, that aims to do just that: “Ask why is this happening, and are there any changes we can make to fix the problem?” Special thanks to our sponsor, Answer1.
When Amy Porter founded the online payment platform AffiniPay, she drew on her experience as a college athlete—cheerleading while majoring in merchandising at the University of Texas at Austin—which led to work as a sales representative with Varsity Brands, an athletic clothing company. Her businesses now include LawPay, an online payment platform for attorneys, and CPACharge, which she developed after discovering accountants were using LawPay for online payments. Special thanks to our sponsor, Answer1.
Since the late 1990s, Joyce Raby has spent a career bringing technology to legal aid. While a booster and believer in technology’s potential to improve America’s legal system, her experience is tempering. “We’ve been saying for a very long time that technology was going to be the saving grace for the justice ecosystem,” she says. “I don’t think it is.” Joyce continues her legal technology trajectory as executive director of the Florida Justice Technology Center.
As electronic data became more prevalent in the 1990s, Judge Andrew Peck, an ABA Journal Legal Rebels Trailblazer, wrote a line that would be quoted by judges and lawyers for generations to come. “It is black-letter law that computerized data is discoverable if relevant,” he wrote in Anti-Monopoly Inc. v. Hasbro Inc. It was one of Peck’s earliest decisions from the bench. In this episode of the Legal Rebels Podcast, Peck discusses his career and the technological changes he experienced with the ABA Journal’s Victor Li.
Mike Dillon has seen a lot change over his career as general counsel to some of the nation’s largest technology companies. Working for Silver Spring Networks, Sun Microsystems and, most recently, Adobe Systems, he witnessed firsthand how digitization and globalization affected the operation and practice of a general counsel’s office. In this episode of the Legal Rebels podcast, he speaks with the ABA Journal's Jason Taschea about his work. Special thanks to our sponsor, Answer1.
Richard Granat–the creator of MyLawyer.com, SmartLegalForms and the People’s Law Library of Maryland–has joined Intraspexion, a new artificial-intelligence software company, as a strategic adviser. At 75, Richard Granat does not fit the stereotype of a startup entrepreneur. However, he says, although there may be bias against older entrepreneurs, his experience is a benefit, not a detraction.
What will be a big legal trend for 2018? Mary E. Juetten is putting her hopes on legal technology improving access-to-justice problems.
Robert Litt has confronted cybersecurity and encryption issues for two presidential administrations. With Russian interference in the 2016 election as a backdrop, Litt, an ABA Journal Legal Rebels Trailblazer, says the U.S. has been facing online threats essentially since the internet's creation.
Adriana Linares considers it a badge of honor to work in the legal profession without being a lawyer. Linares co-founded LawTech Partners with Allan Mackenzie in 2004 after several years in the IT departments of two of the largest firms in Florida. Now she travels across Florida, throughout the country and sometimes abroad as a law practice consultant and legal technology coach. “Lawyers, as far as I’ve ever seen, certainly understand how to research and apply law in a way that helps their clients,” she says. “But where they might need my help is identifying tools and services that will help them with their practice management.”
Legal journalist and blogger Bob Ambrogi recounts his unorthodox path towards legal journalism, as well as where he sees the legal industry heading – especially as it relates to technology.
Bruce MacEwen is both a doctor and an epidemiologist in the world of BigLaw firms. A Legal Rebels Trailblazer, the Adam Smith, Esq. founder can diagnose structural illnesses, including aspects of the partner-as-owner model, and he can point to unhealthy customs and practices, such as when aversion to failure becomes its cause. He also can give advice and guidance for getting better and surviving or, in some instances, provide a dispassionately detailed autopsy.
John Tredennick started a focus on legal technology in 1988—back when law firms saw it as something limited to fancy computers and adding machines. He asked Holland & Hart, the Denver-based firm where he was a partner, to add the words chief information officer to his title. “You need a leader, not just somebody on staff but somebody who understands the bigger vision of the firm—where we fit in the legal landscape and how we can harness technology to get us where we want to be,” Tredennick told partners. “I said, ‘I want to be that leader,’ and they made me the technology partner.”
Michael Mills has been helping law firms figure out their technological needs since before there was an internet. As one of the first of what are now known as chief knowledge officers, Mills played a leading role in educating his fellow lawyers and implementing tools and processes designed to help lawyers do their jobs more effectively. After over two decades in Big Law, Mills decided to stake out on his own, eventually co-founding Neota Logic, a company that allows users to design and create their own tools to fit their needs. Mills talks about his career, as well as what role technology will play in the legal industry going forward.
For more than three decades, Richard Susskind has been one of the profession’s most prolific voices in support of implementing technology with legal services delivery. The author of more than 10 books on the topic, his next one will focus on technology in the courtroom. “A better way of running state-based dispute resolution is largely using technology, rather than using traditional methods,” says Susskind. “Rather than hiring a lawyer, one might instead have an online dialogue with the other party and a judge and resolve a dispute more rapidly.”
For years, Paul Lippe has been a leader in helping corporate law departments adopt the approaches used in the best and most innovative parts of their own companies—and in doing so, significantly changing the relationships with and the work done by their outside lawyers. A Legal Rebels Trailblazer and one of the original New Normal contributors for ABAJournal.com, Lippe’s career path has been all about change and innovation.
Plenty of lawyers hate to do legal research: It can be tedious and time-consuming, and one mistake can tank an entire case. For lawyers of a certain generation, the very sight of those two-toned, musty-smelling books that all look the same is enough to fill them with dread. For younger lawyers, electronic resources can be just as intimidating and mystifying. Luckily for Lisa Solomon, she loves that kind of work.
Stacy Stern is in charge of revenues, among her other roles at a successful for-profit company, but she tends to talk more about giving away products and services. It becomes obvious that she thinks giving is more important than receiving—not that Justia, the legal portal she and her husband, Tim Stanley, created, isn’t out to make money. But–philosophically at least–they turn the standard business model on its head. Profit for the 100-plus-employee company makes it possible to put up more free stuff. Stern, a 2017 Legal Rebel Trailblazer, and Stanley, one of the original ABA Journal Legal Rebels, make basic law free and available to one and all, while turning a profit by helping lawyers market themselves.
In this special ABA TECHSHOW episode of the ABA Journal’s Legal Rebels Podcast, Molly McDonough catches up with Legal Rebel Stacy Stern, president of the vast legal portal Justia. Stern, one of the co-founders of Findlaw, was named a Legal Rebels Trailblazer in early 2017. She talks here about the expansion of Justia, which champions free law for all in the United States and Mexico.
In this special ABA TECHSHOW episode of the ABA Journal’s Legal Rebels Podcast, Molly McDonough catches up with Legal Rebels Shantelle Argyle and Daniel Spencer. Argyle and Spencer, profiled as Legal Rebels in 2015, founded Open Legal Services in Salt Lake City in 2014. Even though the two didn’t initially plan to launch a not-for-profit law firm straight out of law school, they’ve since become evangelists for the model. They talk here about the not-for-profit model they embraced and the growth of their firm.
In this special ABA TECHSHOW episode of the ABA Journal’s Legal Rebels Podcast, Molly McDonough catches up with Legal Rebel Sarah Glassmeyer. Glassmeyer, a trained law librarian and free law enthusiast, was named a Legal Rebel in 2016. She talks here about her relatively new job at the ABA’s Center for Innovation and the melding of her interests there. She gives a preview of what’s to come from the center.
In this special ABA TECHSHOW episode of the ABA Journal’s Legal Rebels Podcast, Molly McDonough catches up with Legal Rebel Sam Glover, founder of Lawyerist, a one-time blog turned robust legal information site. Sam was named a Legal Rebel Trailblazer in February 2017. Here he talks about a new venture at Lawyerist: TBD Law, a unique conference collaboration with ‘09 Legal Rebel Matt Homann of Filament in St. Louis.
In this special ABA TECHSHOW episode of the ABA Journal’s Legal Rebels Podcast, Molly McDonough catches up with Legal Rebel Nicole Black. Black was in the Journal’s first Rebels class in 2009. Just like then, when she was designated the “Boss of Blogs,” she continues to be a prolific blogger and Twitter user. She talks about blogging today and her gig at MyCase, which offers practice-management services to lawyers.
In this special ABA Techshow episode of the ABA Journal’s Legal Rebels Podcast, Molly McDonough catches up with Legal Rebels Ed Walters and Kevin O’Keefe. Walters, a one-time BigLaw associate and co-founder of the legal-research service Fastcase, was named a Legal Rebel Trailblazer in October 2016. Kevin O’Keefe was in the Journal’s inaugural Rebels class in 2009. The two talk here about their new integration of Fastcase and Lexblog, enabling bloggers on the Lexblog platform to link directly to caselaw they’re analyzing in their blog posts.
Born and raised in Austria, Roland Vogl fell in love with California almost from the moment he arrived in 1999 as a student at Stanford Law School. In particular, he was drawn to the entrepreneurial ethos of Stanford’s home base of Silicon Valley. “The idea of being in Silicon Valley and being immersed in the gung-ho spirit where people solve problems—not so much by policy and lawmaking but by building new systems—really appealed to me,” says Vogl, a 2017 Legal Rebels Trailblazer.
The website Lawyerist focuses on getting attorneys information they want. Determining what that is isn't hard, says founder Sam Glover, because readers frequently tell him through the site's discussion forum or on social media. "Sometimes all you can get is anecdotes, asking as many people as you can find, to try and uncover information about stuff," says Glover, a 2017 Legal Rebels Trailblazer who uses the term anecdata to describe some of the site's reporting.
At 69, Judge Herbert Dixon doesn’t fit that epigram about old dogs and new tricks. He’s still proselytizing about high tech in courthouses and courtrooms, and he predicts its future. He’s still trying some cases as a senior judge, is a member of the ABA Board of Governors and now a Legal Rebels Trailblazer, and he’s engaged in so many other endeavors that he never seems to be (under immutable laws of motion) a body at rest.
When you ask Randi Mayes about the future of technology in law firms, she says its growth will stem from attorneys’ behavior rather than specific product offerings. “The real possibility for change in the future sits more with the mindset,” says Mayes, the executive director of the International Legal Technology Association. “It’s all about the law firm adopting its client’s worldview and innovating service delivery with those views in mind.” Randi Mayes is the founder and executive director of the International Legal Technology Association. She has also worked for worked for the Texas law firms Brown McCarroll (which merged with Husch Blackwell in 2013) and Small, Craig & Werkenthin. She lives in Austin, Texas.
Craig Ball likes to say he got into law to stay out of prison. The Austin, Texas-based attorney, professor and electronic evidence expert has always been passionate about technology—somewhat too passionate at times. When he was a teenager, he created a device that allowed him and his friends to make long-distance calls for free. He got in trouble with the law. But luckily for him, the prosecutor and judge didn’t think his crime was all that serious. “The lawyer who helped me out hired me as a law clerk, and that put me on the path to becoming a lawyer,” says Ball, who earned his JD from the University of Texas School of Law in 1982, after which he opened his own law firm. The advent of the personal computer and the internet reignited Ball’s interest in technology. He became fascinated with computer forensics and the nascent field of electronic discovery—areas that still flummox many lawyers and judges today.
Legal technology has changed since 1999, when Ed Walters and Phil Rosenthal founded the legal research service Fastcase—but not as much as they’d like. Phil Rosenthal and Ed Walters are the founders of the legal research service Fastcase. They were associates with Covington & Burling when they started the company in 1999.
Most people see librarians as the quiet personification of technical obsolescence. Jean O'Grady is out to change that. The senior director of research and knowledge at DLA Piper in Washington, D.C., is at the forefront of pushing the legal industry toward embracing technology as a means of enhancing the practice of law. Through her acclaimed blog, Dewey B Strategic (which has been selected for the ABA Journal Blawg 100 every year since 2012), as well as through numerous public appearances and interviews, O'Grady informs lawyers about what the current legal tech landscape looks like and what kinds of innovative tools are at their disposal.
The license plates on Jerome Goldman’s Subaru Legacy reads “OYEZ,” in honor of his U.S. Supreme Court-focused multimedia archive. Now at age 71, Goldman, named a Legal Rebels Trailblazer by the ABA Journal, says he has some more “ephemera” that he hopes will get on the site, which is moving from Chicago-Kent College of Law to Cornell University’s Legal Information Institute. “This means passing along my knowledge gained over 25 years, plus offering complete details regarding my workflow,” says Goldman, who believes that his political science education was instrumental in understanding judicial behavior.
Stanford Law School Professor Deborah Rhode is the enemy of complacency. This Legal Rebels Trailblazer is one of the most cited scholars in legal ethics, though she wears many more hats. She has carved out specialties in discrimination (ranging from race and gender to the unfair advantages that flow to physical beauty, often probing their intersection with legal ethics) and in criticism of legal education itself.
"Working with tech startups, I realized that there is this vast unmet need for affordable legal services," lawyer Charley Moore says. "There's a real need for technology to make it more efficient for lawyers to be able to answer simple questions online and to be able to represent small businesses, individuals, startups and families at fraction of traditional cost." Moore decided to try to fill that need with Rocket Lawyer, his online, do-it-yourself legal services provider that helps individuals and small businesses access legal forms (and, if necessary, local attorneys.) Moore was more bullish about Rocket Lawyer's recent move to provide employees at large companies with comprehensive legal plans similar to health insurance. "Our Q&A service is growing very fast," Moore says. "You can ask a question about any legal situation on any mobile device, and an attorney will respond to that question at an affordable price."
Lawyers often think technology should always work. That's aspirational, says Sharon Nelson, president of the cybersecurity, information technology and digital forensics firm Sensei Enterprises Inc. "People can screw up, but technology fails too," says Nelson. "You really need to recover from what the problem is, as opposed to pointing fingers and being angry." Nelson and John W. Simek, her business partner and husband, formed Sensei Enterprises in 1997. Simek, an engineer, previously worked for Mobil Oil as a chief network designer and troubleshooter. The two met when she hired him to computerize her law practice. "John had the technical genius, and I had the legal, business and marketing experience," she says "We figured that together I could sell his talents, and it ended up that I sold us both. People were happy to have someone they could talk technology with, along with someone who knew legal ethics."
"We didn't start out to be disruptive," says John Suh, LegalZoom's chief executive officer. "We were set up to fix a problem. The legal system was broken and too many people were frozen out of it."
For Suh, the main goal of LegalZoom continues to be providing access to the legal system for millions of Americans who can't afford an attorney and do not qualify for free legal services. "So much of our legal system is focused on BigLaw or access to justice for those below the poverty line," says Suh. "What about the 84 percent or so of people between that? For them, the system really has failed."
What Suh has done during his tenure as CEO is transform the company from a do-it-yourself outfit into one that has partnered with lawyers.
"The perception that we're an online legal company with no human lawyers is just not true," says Suh. "Over the last five years, we've embraced lawyers and become quite adept with working with them." There have been over 200,000 one-on-one consultations between LegalZoom customers and lawyers licensed in their respective states, he says.
Ernie Svenson-a.k.a. well-known blogger Ernie the Attorney-was an early evangelist for what he calls The Paperless Chase. The basic premise: "Anything you can do with paper, you can do more with PDF. Way more."
Now he spends a lot of time teaching, training and speaking, all aimed at enabling small-firm and solo lawyers with the ability "to save money, make money and outmatch bigger firm adversaries," he says.
In fact, calling Svenson an evangelist is an understatement. "The walls are closing in on lawyers who haven't adapted, with e-filing in the courts and the increased use of the PDF format by others," Svenson says. "It's here. It's good. Do it."
Lawyer and longtime journalist Monica Bay didn't let sexism or a technology-averse legal establishment keep her from breaking new ground. "The baby boomer lawyers were so entrenched with the idea that 'only the girls touch anything with a keyboard' that they absolutely refused to do anything involving tech," Bay recalls. "They thought it was beneath them." Now, Bay says, the profession has stepped away from thinking that technology is reserved for support staff, and beneath lawyers. "If you don't learn tech," she says, "you are not going to be relevant anymore."