Doubts Aloud Podcast: Recent Episodes
Doubts Aloud Podcast
The Doubts Aloud Podcast!
Join us as we allow doubts to be voiced regarding faith, religion and worldviews. Two of us have been Christians and none of us believe, so our current conclusion is that the doubts regarding Christianity are justified, but we are keen to question ourselves and hear Christian arguments and hear from Christian guests. Our background means that our conversation with Christianity will tend to dominate over other faiths.
We are Frances Janusz, Andrew Whyte and Ed Atkinson. We value the use of reason and evidence to assess matters of faith and worldview. (Should we doubt those assumptions?). We will consider philosophy, theology, Biblical Studies, human experience from the thinking layman’s viewpoint. We greatly value respect for those we disagree with and engaging in discussion. Meet us all in person at the monthly Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group in central London
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Andrew Whyte one of the hosts of Doubts Aloud has his own "Christian Diversity" YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLIyesuRCrlRFYCYs_XMDKhd_MAyeF8esH
For those not familiar with the Christian Premier Radio Unbelievable Show that we praise, it is podcast as “Unbelievable?” and on the web:
https://www.premierchristianradio.com/Shows/Saturday/Unbelievable
Andrew’s appearances on Unbelievable were 31/10/2009 on the Return of Jesus, 26/04/2014 with Greg Boyd on Doubt and 10/07/2015 with Nabeel Qureshi on Christian Diversity.
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please give feedback and ask questions using :
doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/247243319147813
Meet us all in person at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Show Notes
Andrew has noticed that debates within Christianity on the Trinity have become much more prominent recently. We go back even to the Old Testament and cover the 1stC AD, Church Fathers, Council of Nicaea, the Reformation, and more recent debates following the story. We marvel at how differences in interpretation have been so divisive, for example how Arian and his views which nearly became Orthodoxy were later so roundly condemned.
Links:
Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy article:
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/trinity/
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please keep giving feedback and ask questions using:
doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Show Notes
We welcome Jon Cohen who leads us on his journey in life which has more recently led him to engage with Christians of all kinds on his successful YouTube live-stream show “Unconvinced”. Unlike many of us, he has no history as a Christian and so has a true outsider’s view of the faith. A key step in his thinking has been exploring the implications of our beliefs not being our choices. It’s written up in his forthcoming book – see link in show notes.
Links:
Don’t miss Jon’s book. Pre-order “Unconvinced: How Belief Is Not a Choice and Why That Changes Everything” here:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Unconvinced-Belief-Choice-Changes-Everything/dp/149309632X/
And the YouTube show
https://www.youtube.com/@JonCohenOfficial
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please give feedback and ask questions using: doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Show Notes
We started with Episode 1 in Feb 2018, today we celebrate our 100th Episode with friend John Nelson, who is now the main host at Unbelievable?. We discussed John’s PhD thesis book on what Jesus looked like, his work at Unbelievable?, his tour with Alex O’Connor and his blog “Behind the Gospels”.
We then dove into a specific issue on the background to the gospels – the transmission of the traditions about Jesus’s teaching and actions from his ministry up to the gospel documents.
And NEWS – Ed’s discussion on evolution with John & Denis Alexander which we raked over in episode 98 has been released by Unbelievable?. See links.
Links:
Unbelievable? Show with Ed on evolution:
“Can a Loving God Use Evolution?” Denis Alexander vs Ed Atkinson hosted by John Nelson, 4 June 2026
John’s book: “Jesus' Physical Appearance: Biography, Christology, Philosophy”
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Jesus-Physical-Appearance-Christology-Philosophy/dp/0567723208
John’s “Behind the Gospels” blog:
https://www.behindthegospels.com/
The book: “Battle of the Big Bang: The New Tales of Our Cosmic Origins” by Niayesh Afshordi and Phil Halper”:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Battle-Big-Bang-Cosmic-Origins-ebook/dp/B0DKBHH3YN?ref_=ast_author_mpb
More recent Unbelievable?
Shows:
Richmond Wandera – “My Father was murdered… a sponsor saved my life” Richmond Wandera Interviewed by John Nelson, 18 March 2026
“What would it take for Alex O’Connor to believe Jesus rose from the dead?” Trent Horn v Alex O’Connor, 30 April 2026
Hiddenness: “Why Doesn’t God Show Himself?” Dan Paterson vs Joe Schmid hosted by John Nelson, 12 February 2026.
Uncommon Ground podcast, Episode 7, hosted by Justin Brierley: “Stephen Meyer & Phil Halper: The Big Bang and Fine Tuning. Does the science of the Universe point to God?”
Bart D. Ehrman’s latest book: “Love Thy Stranger: How Jesus Transformed Our Moral Conscience” April 2026
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Love-Thy-Stranger-Transformed-Conscience-ebook/dp/B0FKMJZJ1V/ref=monarch_sidesheet_title
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please keep giving feedback and ask questions using: doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Show Notes
We start by dipping into the book with 50 arguments for God and a chapter “Jesus as God” which says that if we ditch 4th & 5thC debates and modern categories of Trinity, we see Jesus expressing his divinity in his own way. It explains Jesus’ caged language on this as Jesus needing to avoid being stoned for blasphemy.
We look at some of the key passages in the gospels, in particular looking for differences between the author’s view and Jesus’ proclamations regarding whether he was God. This leads on to the Liar Lunatic Lord argument made famous by CS Lewis, and the sceptics’ 4th option “Legend”.
We look at the “Liar” option. And we offer you: Misquoted, Misunderstood, Mythologised and Mistaken.
Links:
Books:
“Evidence for God: 50 Arguments for Faith from the Bible, History, Philosophy and Science” by Mike Licona and William Dembski.
CS Lewis - “Mere Christianity”
Bart Ehrman - “How Jesus Became God”
Richard Carrier’s blog:
https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/20130
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please give feedback and ask questions using:
doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Show Notes
Ed has recently recorded an Unbelievable? Show with Dr Denis Alexander who is an evangelical Christian, a biologist and author of books like “Creation or Evolution: Do We Have to Choose?”. Denis fully embraces evolution. While these ideas are fresh, we took the time to think through how a deep thinking Christian reconciles evolution and faith as it informs theology on suffering, God’s intervention in the world, salvation, the soul and Adam & Eve.
Links:
Denis uses John Stott’s idea that Adam was “Homo Divinus”. Here is a fairly short Stott quote:
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/thepangeablog/200
9/01/13/quote-to-ponder-john-stott-on-creation-and-evolution/
Creation Or Evolution: Do We Have to Choose?
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Creation-Evolution-Do-Have-Choose/dp/1854247468
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please give feedback and ask questions using: doubtsaloud@gmail.com
The evangelical case for conditional Immortality
Recommended books.
Edward Fudge - The Fire That Consumes
Henry Constable - The Duration and Nature of Future Punishment
Edward White - Life in Christ
John Stott - Essentials
Rethinking Hell - Readings in Evangelical Conditionalism
Episode 96 - The Kirk Cameron Controversy and the Case for Conditional Immortality
Kirks original video that sparked the controversy
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_RflbA8Vt_Y
Kirk Camerons subsequent round table disscusion of the issue
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ds3UbUsIaQs
Text for DA Podcast Ep 95
Title Suggestions
Virgin Births in Ancient Culture
Virgin Births in Greek and Hebrew Culture
Show Notes
We look for origins of the Virgin Birth doctrine in Christianity. Principally we search the Greek and Hebrew cultures that are the context behind the birth narratives in Matthew and Luke’s gospels. What we don’t conclude is that the origin of the Virgin Birth was that mistake in the translation of the Old Testament into Greek, which created for the first time “Behold, the virgin shall conceive and bear a son…”. But we do wonder if the first version of Luke even had the Virgin Birth.
Links:
Greco Roman Literature and the New Testament : Selected Forms and Genres. Jan. 1988 by David E Aune (Editor)
From John Nelson’s Behind the Gospels, Aug 08, 2024 “How to Write an Infancy Narrative: A Seven-Step Guide to Ancient Birth Stories”
https://www.behindthegospels.com/p/how-to-write-an-infancy-narrative?utm_source=publication-search
And
https://www.behindthegospels.com/p/is-matthews-story-of-the-virgin-birth
The early creed which seems to deny the Virgin Birth doctrine: Romans 1:3–4
Mark Goodacre thinks Mary conceiving out of wedlock might be an origin. NT Pod 64
https://podacre.blogspot.com/2012/12/nt-pod-64-is-virgin-birth-based-on.html
The Bart Ehrman Blog - Why Was Jesus Born of a Virgin in Matthew and Luke?
https://ehrmanblog.org/why-was-jesus-born-of-a-virgin-in-matthew-and-luke/
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please give feedback and ask questions using: doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Show Notes
In episode 92 we explained the idea of Atheist Prayer and introduced a philosophy paper on it by Oxford prof Tim Mawson. This episode Tim is our guest. We discuss the “Atheist Prayer Experiment”, which Tim’s paper inspired, and his contribution the Unbelievable? Shows on the Experiment. The link to Divine Hiddenness is a strong theme.
Appendium notes regarding the views of Richard Swinburne.
"Swinburne does think that atheists who pray for a revelation because they intend to send their results into a radio show, even those who at the stage they actually do the praying are doing it sincerely (in the sense we're using that term - that is wanting to find out the truth for truth's sake and being willing to shape their lives accordingly thereafter) are less likely to get answers from God than are those who were merely sincere in this sense, i.e. those who are praying for a revelation without, as he called it today, 'mixed' motivations. But that's not because God doesn't like the idea of the news of their experiences spreading via the radio and thus reducing the general level of hiddenness that He has good reason to maintain; so Richard's is not, as I erroneously speculated it was, an instance of the footnote-13-type reasoning which someone might have for maintaining this. It's rather - Richard says - because God has more reason to answer prayers asking for revelation from people with just the motivation to seek the truth, et cetera. rather than those with mixed motives; it depends on the 'mix ratio' as it were. So, ideal then (for some purposes) would be atheists who pray this sort of thing sincerely (in the sense we mean), and only later - as an afterthought - report it onwards. Those he'd be more likely to answer than the ones Justin and I had on our 'experiment', who only started praying with the intention of passing it onwards, even if they later (or even simultaneously) developed the sincere motivation; either way, they will have had mixed motives."
Links:
The paper “Praying to stop being an atheist” by Prof Tim Mawson:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1k_TWLsLji4te169FZicpg_2vI9vsB330/view?usp=sharing
Tim’s email: tjmawson@rocketmail.com
Unbelievable? Shows on the Experiment:
Classic Replay: Atheist prayer experiment results show – part 1. 29-9-2022
Classic Replay: Atheist prayer experiment results show – part 2. 4-10-2022
(Seach ‘Mawson’ in your Unbelievable? Feed)
Ryan Bell tried a "Year Without God"
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ryan_J._Bell
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please give feedback and ask questions using: doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Show Notes
We welcome Dr Lucas Wilson (also known as Luke), he’s an academic and has both studied and experienced the practice of Conversion Therapy. The idea behind such therapy is that sexual orientation and/or gender identity is a mental disorder which can be fixed, usually by God, with the help of a programme, therapist, exorcist, boot camp, deliverer or some such. Luke has recently edited a book containing a set of personal stories and vignettes of experiencing such ‘therapy’. It is shocking, harrowing, sometimes comic and wonderfully written by each contributor. We discuss the practice from the point of view of a historian, as well as a former conservative Christian and now a human with a strong moral compass. Is Conversion Therapy a category of genocide?
Links:
Don’t miss Luke’s book:
Shame-Sex Attraction. Survivors’ Stories of Conversion Therapy edited by
Lucas F. W. Wilson. Jessica Kingsley Publishers, 2025
Films Mentioned, both from 2018:
Boy Erased
The Miseducation of Cameron Post
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please give feedback and ask questions using: doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Show Notes
Yes, atheist prayer is a thing! We explain the idea and introduce a philosophy paper on it by Oxford prof Tim Mawson. The paper gave rise to the “Atheist Prayer Experiment” which Justin Brierley conducted and reported on via the Unbelievable? Show in 2012. We discuss the setup and results of the Experiment. Tim Mawson himself has agreed to be our guest in November to give feedback on our musings.
Links:
The paper “Praying to stop being an atheist” by Prof Tim Mawson:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1k_TWLsLji4te169FZicpg_2vI9vsB330/view?usp=sharing
Unbelievable? Shows on the Experiment:
Classic Replay: Atheist prayer experiment results show – part 1. 29-9-2022
Classic Replay: Atheist prayer experiment results show – part 2. 4-10-2022
(Seach ‘Mawson’ in your Unbelievable? Feed)
The Facebook group on the Experiment, here is the setup page we mentioned and you can click on to group home page:
https://www.facebook.com/legacy/notes/227785844014301/
Key Bible passage on those outside the faith seeking God:
Acts 17:24-27
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please give feedback and ask questions using: doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Show Notes
Andrew leads us through the development in the Hebrew scriptures regarding how other Gods/gods alongside Yahweh were understood. Initially Yahweh was seen as Israel’s God within a Henotheist context, where Henotheism is the belief in or worship of one god while acknowledging the existence of other gods. A key idea was a Heavenly Council as seen in the opening of Job. Over time Yahweh became seen as more and more powerful than the other gods and eventually monotheism became dominant by the time of the New Testament. There is of course debate on this in the scholarship, which we discuss.
Bible Study:
Psalm 82:1
Exodus 12:12
2 Chron 18:18-22
Job 1:6 & 2:1
Deuteronomy 32:8, 39 and 43
Isaiah 47:8-9
Bible Scholars to look up: Mark Smith, Michael Heiser (the evangelical one), Dan McClellan, Thom Stark and Francesca Stavrakopoulou
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please give feedback and ask questions using: doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Show Notes
Last episode we discussed apparently poor design within the Intelligent Design argument. It led into assessing whether the Fall is a good explanation for poor design and hence natural suffering. Here we discuss other explanations for a good and loving God making a world with natural suffering. In particular, we assess Sceptical Theism which we covered in episode 3. The idea is that the explanation is beyond our understanding, which seems good but has problematic implications. One implication is the issue of whether God is lying in His revelation is something else we’d expect to be beyond our understanding. Finally, we cycle back to the Fall narrative in Genesis to see whether God is lying in his warning to Adam.
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please give feedback, meet Ed’s challenge on suffering in the Old Testament and ask questions using:
doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Show Notes
In recent episodes we have discussed Design Arguments and Intelligent Design. Here we cover another chapter from the 50 Arguments for Faith book which explains the apparent suboptimal Design. It is interesting to see what reasons Intelligent Design proponents give. One suggestion is: "We must also remember that the world we are observing is not the original creation. It is a corrupted version of The Creation." This leads us into discussing the Fall as an explanation for Natural Suffering, a widely held view in Christianity. The journey of discussion will be continued next episode.
Links:
The 50 Arguments for Faith book: “Evidence for God: 50 Arguments for Faith from the Bible, History, Philosophy and Science” by Mike Licona and William Dembski. (It can be found on Amazon.)
The famous video clip with Stephen Fry talking about worms burrowing out of children’s eyes:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-suvkwNYSQo
Justin Brierley’s response video.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=klPr708VWDk
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please give feedback, meet Ed’s challenge on suffering in the Old Testament and ask questions using: doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Show Notes
We looked at Design Arguments in our Episodes 82 & 85 but avoided diving deep into Fine Tuning, waiting for our discussion with Phil. It was worth it! We covered questions such as what are the actual physical observations which we call Fine Tuning? What are the main explanations for the observations that cosmologists/physicists generally think most likely and how popular are they among the scientist? Phil’s survey results on that are fascinating.
Apologies for some technical difficulties with the podcast, Andrew was ill at the last minute, (he’s now recovering).
Links:
Don’t miss Phil’s book:
Battle of the Big Bang: The New Tales of Our Cosmic Origins Hardcover, by Niayesh Afshordi and Phil Halper. May 2025
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Battle-Big-Bang-Cosmic-Origins/dp/0226830470
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please give feedback and ask questions using:
doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Show Notes
We welcome again our great friend John Nelson as our guest. John has started an excellent academic blog, “Behind the Gospels”, which we discuss at length. We cover individual issues that John has covered, especially whether Matthew the disciple was the author of Matthews Gospel. We couldn’t hold back from asking about some hot topics, such as whether ‘John’ knew the synoptic gospels or ‘Luke’ had read Josephus. The discussion also extended to wider issues like the cultural influences behind the Gospels, what we can say on the degree of factual material in them and the authority that traditions about Jesus’s words and deeds may have held in the period before the gospels were written.
Links:
www.BehindtheGospels.com
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please give feedback and ask questions using:
doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Show Notes
We welcome a new guest Jim Paul, a Christian thinker from the UK L’Abri community. He introduces us to a view of Heaven which is in contrast to the familiar ethereal heaven in our culture. The familiar view is centuries old with its fluffy clouds and plump babies with wings, but it is a corruption of the Bible’s view, which is more earthy and on reflection more attractive. Jim has written a book on this, “What on Earth is Heaven?”, which we discuss at length.
Links:
Jim’s book “What on Earth is Heaven?”:
https://www.amazon.com/What-Earth-Heaven-James-Paul/dp/1789742218
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please give feedback and ask questions using: doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Design Arguments Part 2
Show Notes
In episode 82 we started our discussion on Design Arguments and got up to the start of the 19thC. Later in that century the argument was turned on its head by Darwin and his Origin of Species. We discuss this and move on to modern creationism (a little) and Intelligent Design (a lot), selecting by our design – not at random - two more chapters from the 50 Arguments for Faith book which is heavy on Intelligent Design.
Links:
The 50 Arguments for Faith book: “Evidence for God: 50 Arguments for Faith from the Bible, History, Philosophy and Science” by Mike Licona and William Dembski. (It can be found on Amazon.)
Frances mentioned this by a practising Jew who rejects the Intelligent Design concept of irreducible complexity:
https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC3721655/
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please give feedback and ask questions using: doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Show Notes
We start from an informative update on the Flat Earth movement. Their model for the earth usually includes a wall of ice round the rim – Anarctica, that implies the 24 hour sunshine in the Anarctica summer is impossible and their claims often include that it does not occur. So what happens when a group of prominent Flat Earth advocates are paid to visit Anarctica during its summer? That happened this month.
For the rest of the show we discuss another story doing the rounds. It is prompted by the Museum of the Bible putting on display a mosaic from Israel which was uncovered in 2005 and was discussed back then. It dates to around 230AD and includes the phrase “God Jesus Christ” in one of its inscriptions. We deal with the context both in terms of the developing doctrine of the Trinity and in terms of apologists jumping on the latest ‘thing’.
Links:
A full video on the update on a Flat Earth
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dEc86p1vgLM
Short one:
https://youtube.com/shorts/HTSvI--ZVYg?si=jsEoFYmlLpHIzdXc
CBN (The Christian Broadcasting Network Inc) on the ‘Jesus Mosaic’:
https://youtu.be/C_fTfAsJ5Lc?si=KdeNMfBMspCUfHfh
Cameron’ Capturing Christianity video
https://youtu.be/zFPHoLFijUs?si=oKxGbVKKRK3REwnY
A qualified academic Professor Christopher Rollston is Sean McDowell’s guest here:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Vw4lme5eLmA
And here is a blog by Prof Rollston of George Washington University
http://www.rollstonepigraphy.com/?p=1004
Past excitements:
Curse Tablet – our episode 68
First-century fragment of Mark
Wallace’s online announcement
https://danielbwallace.com/2012/03/22/first-century-fragment-of-marks-gospel-found/
His apology blog:
https://danielbwallace.com/2018/05/23/first-century-mark-fragment-update/
The Wikipedia article
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Papyrus_137
The mummy mask papyrus, Craig Evans:
https://edition.cnn.com/2015/01/21/living/gospel-mummy-mask/
https://www.northridgerochester.com/theology-1/mummy-mask-may-reveal-oldest-fragment-of-the-gospel-of-mark
Piece by Richard Carrier
https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/13935
Claims of it being a front for getting fragments without need for provenance
https://art-crime.blogspot.com/2019/10/the-gospel-truth-how-laundering-of.html
Searches for Noah's Ark
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Searches_for_Noah%27s_Ark
Egyptian Chariot Wheels in the Red Sea
https://biblearchaeologyreport.com/2018/10/11/fake-news-in-biblical-archaeology/
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please give feedback and ask questions using: doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Show Notes
We start with the recent UK Parliament decision in favour of assisted dying and the religion and secular division that it brought out. Then we enjoy discussing Charles Dickens’ A Christmas Carol at length. There’s a debate among academics on whether it is a fully secular story, or if it is a Christian allegory. We wade in. The question on what Dickens’ own beliefs were has relevance and it seems that he had a “works not faith” view of Christianity, especially with reference to A Christmas Carol (or in Ed’s words “a wishy washy Anglican”). We see a message similar to Jesus’ in Luke’s gospel in particular as well as the synoptics in general, which is in conflict with material in the rest of the NT.
Links:
The BBC documentary on assisted dying “Better Off Dead?” with actress Liz Carr
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m001z8wc
A short academic resource on Dickens and Christianity
https://dickens.ucsc.edu/resources/faq/religion.html
We recommend the wikipedia page on the novella
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Christmas_Carol
And the Melvin Bragg BBC Radio 4 “In Our Time” episode on it
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/m0012fl5
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please give feedback and ask questions using: doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Show Notes
We start with the next chapter selected by the randomiser in our 50 Arguments for God book. “Can We Be Certain That Jesus Died on a Cross? A Look at the Ancient Practice of Crucifixion” We agree that the answer is Yes, and enjoy ourselves on the way. Then we move on to another random chapter which is on how our planet is ideal for doing astronomy – “Designed for Discovery”. This leads to a wider discussion on Design Arguments. We look at their history and cover Aquinas, Hume and Paley, but run out of time at the start of the 19thC.
Links:
The 50 Arguments for Faith book: “Evidence for God: 50 Arguments for Faith from the Bible, History, Philosophy and Science” by Mike Licona and William Dembski. (It can be found on Amazon.)
The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy entry on Hume and The Argument from Design:
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/hume-religion/#ArgDes
And on Design Arguments generally:
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/teleological-arguments/#Int
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please give feedback and ask questions using: doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Show Notes
Ed continues relating the history of the remote isolated Scottish island of St Kilda and its amazing community. We had finished Part 1 at about 1700 AD with a kind of Utopia and a gentle folksy religion. Here we discuss its decline (our take) into a harsh, puritan, rule-bound and Calvinist kind of religion. And we ask how it could have happened and whether it’s a case of Hitchen’s “Religion poisons everything”.
Links:
That key book:
Tom Steel, The life and death of St Kilda, 1975, Fontana.
French website on St Kilda translated –
www.kildaprojet.com
That Napier Commission on the Outer Hebrides – interviews:
https://napier-outerhebrides.blogspot.com/2010/05/st-kilda-2-june-1883-i.html
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please give feedback and ask questions using: doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Show Notes
Ed shares from his longstanding interest in the remote isolated Scottish island of St Kilda and its amazing community that survived for 1000s of years up to 1930. In part 1 we cover its geography, community structure and social conditions, and then its religious history finishing around 1700 which was when outsiders began worrying about their souls. How did a small isolated community work in beliefs, morals and even economic arrangements?
Links:
Do a google-images on “St Kilda Scotland”
That key book:
Tom Steel, The life and death of St Kilda, 1975, Fontana.
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please give feedback and ask questions using: doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Show Notes
We covered the book of Daniel in episode 44 explaining it’s likely ‘forgery’ status and we briefly discussed his 70 Weeks prophecy in that episode. Here Andrew leads us into a deep dive, plunging the murky waters. Indeed, studying the prophecy has been called a ‘dismal swamp’. We discuss how all approaches, apologetic or scholarly, lead to difficulties making “Daniel’s” weird maths fit with historical dates. Needless to say, apologetic claims that the fulfilled prophecy of the 70 Weeks are amazing, arresting and should convert an open minded sceptic don’t convince us.
At the start of the episode we discuss the prophecy made in April 2024 of the near-miss shooting of Donald Trump. In some respects, this is a good match to the church’s treatment of the 70 weeks prophecy.
Links:
Richard Carrier on Daniel (he includes a section on the 70 Weeks):
https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/18242
Key verses: Daniel 9.24-27. (It’s worth reading more for context.)
The clip Andrew gave claiming the 70 weeks verses will convert you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pWiJCH07kAg&t=29s
A great scholarly paper from “The Journal of Hebrew Scriptures” by George Athas which outlines the difficulties in trying to get a fit to historical events and suggesting a theory of what the author of Daniel was doing:
https://jhsonline.org/index.php/jhs/article/download/6231/5259/13824
Trump shooting original April 2024 prophecy (start 11 mins in):
https://youtu.be/Ey0qVzG8_vU?si=5b2U1I8oDSYVFFq8
An apologist discussing the shooting after the event:
https://youtu.be/vsidOPEAERE?si=Js-Gy2UuicT7VwPS
Doubts Aloud Links:
Show Notes
In Part 1, friends of the show John Nelson and Josh Parikh returned as guests and discussed “McGrewvianism”, which is the apologetic approach of partners Tim & Lydia McGrew. Their critiques of McGrewvianism centred largely in lack of engagement in the last 150 years of scholarship into the New Testament documents and they related this extensively to the McGrew’s use of ‘Undesigned Coincidences’ to establish the historical reliability of the NT narratives.
Jonathan McLatchie, who we also consider a friend of the show, is in the McGrew camp and wrote a helpful response blog, which also concentrated on Undesigned Coincidences. In this episode we discuss his responses and we take a wider look at contradictions between texts as a potentially symmetrical opposite concept to Undesigned Coincidences.
Links:
We discussed ‘undesigned coincidences’ with Jonathan McLatchie in our episode 29.
Jonathan’s blog, which we are responding to, is:
https://jonathanmclatchie.com/have-john-nelson-and-josh-parikh-refuted-the-reportage-model/
The tome Andrew mentioned on the Encyclopaedia of Bible Difficulties
https://www.amazon.co.uk/International-Encyclopedia-Difficulties-Understand-Zondervans/dp/0310241464
The criminal case Frances discussed: a summary of the Hanratty case is here:
https://mobile-webview.gmail.com/-1530513736/426787727007691964
(You can access the full judgment from a link on the summary page.)
[We didn’t give Bible references in the podcast to the uncertainty over the disciple Andrew’s home, which impacts on Philip’s. They are John 1v44 and Mark 1v21, 22 & 29]
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please give feedback and ask questions using: doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Show Notes
We return to our “Doubts Aloud Book Club” with a second episode on Tom Holland’s book ‘Dominion’ which has caused quite a stir in Christian apologetics circles over the last few years. We cover some of the critical responses, including ours. But most importantly we sought out responses from historians. Tom makes a bold and interesting set of claims that we list, and then we assess them with a wider philosophical view to go with the historical story that Dominion presents.
Links:
The book Dominion:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dominion-Making-Western-Tom-Holland/dp/0349141207
Book reviews we found:
Jenkins - in Christianity Today
https://www.christianitytoday.com/ct/2020/january-web-only/tom-holland-dominion-christian-revolution.html
De Groot – in The Times
https://www.thetimes.com/world/europe/article/dominion-by-tom-holland-review-7pc255qs7
Jonathan Sumption – in The Spectator
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/did-christianity-make-the-western-mind-or-was-it-the-other-way-round/
The Unbelievable episodes with Tom that we discuss:
With AC Grayling:
https://youtu.be/7eSyz3BaVK8?si=TOdafNjHf22AJuov
And with Andrew Ollerton:
https://youtu.be/f2_W6eCijV4?si=QBEuJnA1N-xyxS7t
The Jennifer Glance book on slavery in early Christianity
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Slavery-Early-Christianity-Jennifer-Glancy/dp/0800637895
Rowan Williams book, Passions of the Soul
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Passions-Soul-Rowan-Williams/dp/1399415689
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please give feedback and ask questions using: doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person again at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Show Notes
Friends of the show John Nelson and Josh Parikh return as guests together. They introduce Josh’s new term to the world: McGrewvianism, which is the apologetic approach of partners Tim & Lydia McGrew. They are scholars in their own fields but do not use the methods of modern NT scholarship when arguing for the historical reliability of the gospels. Potentially this can be seen as fresh air, but Josh & John dig deeper.
This will be the first episode of a 2 part set. Josh & John cover such topics as McGrewvianism treatment of modern NT scholarship and their key ‘undesigned coincidences’ argument.
Links:
We discussed ‘undesigned coincidences’ with Jonathan McLatchie in our episode 29.
John’s blog, which has a post on undesigned coincidences, is:
https://www.behindthegospels.com/
The McGrews
https://lydiamcgrew.com/
Tim doesn’t seem to have a home page for his work, search for him on Amazon, or here:
https://wmich.edu/philosophy/directory/mcgrew
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please give feedback and ask questions using: doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Show NotesTom Holland’s book ‘Dominion’ has caused quite a stir in Christian apologetics circles over the last few years and we’ve been reading it. We also attended a church leader’s evening where he was the speaker. So we thought we would start a “Doubts Aloud Book Club” with Dominion the first book covered.We introduce Tom, his current faith position and the book, we discuss his style and how much we enjoyed the read.
We present the key messages that Tom seeks to make and talk about whether it’s a book useful for apologetics. Finally, we read some extracts that had struck us and discussed them.A later episode on the book will cover more on the critical responses, including ours. He makes a bold and interesting set of claims that we can both learn from and see where we, and historians, may disagree. Links:That book
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dominion-Making-Western-Tom-Holland/dp/0349141207
The Justin Brierley Spectator article:
https://www.spectator.co.uk/article/a-christian-revival-is-under-way-in-britain/
Doubts Aloud Links:Please give feedback and ask questions using:
doubtsaloud@gmail.com Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person again at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Show NotesWe are excited to have guest Rev Michael Roberts with us, he’s an Oxford geologist who subsequently became an Anglican vicar. He is extremely knowledgeable on the history of geology and the age of the earth in science, Christian academic thought, theology and the modern Young Earth movement. Did you know that Darwin was a geologist at the start of his career? Neither did we. Links:Michael’s blog is:
https://michaelroberts4004.wordpress.com/
Michael’s paper “Just before the Beagle”:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/17qo3zEeYKZlwL_Y8DpoX3F-35BO4rPPz/view?usp=sharing
His 5 day trip exploring Darwin in Wales
https://www.newscientist.com/tours/retracing-charles-darwins-travels-across-north-wales/?
fbclid=IwAR372bjMkHAcr0UU4p6B9KqztYkaOk5bxLH4PUgXRT06Nfo75iuhank-gac
That Ovid book
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metamorphoses
That Genesis Flood 1961 book:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Genesis_Flood(
The link also mentions the Bernard Ramm book “The Christian View of Science and Scripture” we mentioned.) That irreverent cartoon on Adam and Eve overpopulating the globe due to obedience:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ziQrzXmjk-M Doubts Aloud Links:Please give feedback and ask questions using: doubtsaloud@gmail.com Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person again at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Show NotesThis month we return to that different form of Apologetics - Presuppositional Apologetics. Please see Part 1 - Episode 70 - where we gave a more social and historical background to it. Here we look at the basic argument made: the Transcendental Argument for God, “TAG”. We set it out and discuss implications and objections to it. Links:The Debunking Christianity material on Presup:
https://www.debunking-christianity.com/2022/08/the-failure-of-van-tillian.html
The short clip of someone doing a ‘reverse Presup’ on Presuppositional Apologists, invoking a “non-conscious power”:
https://youtu.be/BPF8lcYWQ1Y?si=_B8mO9jUKdA6z8Q7
Blog expanding on our point that our desire for there to be reliable rationality does not show there ishttps://useofreason.wordpress.com/2019/05/10/the-limitations-of-transcendental-arguments/ Julian Baggini’s book “How the World Thinks”
https://www.amazon.co.uk/How-World-Thinks-History-Philosophy/dp/1783782285
The Dan Linford paper given to us by Josh on skeptical theism and how it destroys TAG
https://www.dropbox.com/s/4iojx3honcv4mv4/On_Knowledge_Without_God_Van_Tillian_Pre.docx?fbclid=IwAR34-aQh0Kny9J6pTCQbSKyiiuZauzza1j4ddu4WeCTE3XsXCGqdJFq4sa4
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please give feedback and ask questions using: doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person again at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Show NotesWe deal with the current conflict in Israel and Gaza by looking at the influence of religion, in the minds of the Israeli leaders & the settlers taking land in the West Bank and also in the minds of the Evangelical Zionist backers in the UK and US.
The UK evangelical influence is more of historical interest but the US is very current and is influencing events now. Links etc:
The video by Al Jazeera used for extracts at the start of the show – “How Evangelicals Betray Christians In The Holy Land”https://youtu.be/nHT-SjIM0tA?si=yok7IZPkxAMyasQf Sky News – the Benjamin Netanyahu speech with translation, Amalek bit from 1min50shttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P5LmB6uup3o Guardian article with quotes from a settler and an administrator of settlementshttps://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/nov/18/these-are-biblical-lands-promised-to-us-jewish-settlers-in-west-bank-hope-gaza-conflict-will-help-their-cause Pew Research on Jews in Israelhttps://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2016/03/08/in-israel-jews-are-united-by-homeland-but-divided-into-very-different-groups/ Israel Policy Forum article (an American Jewish organization that works for a negotiated solution to the conflict)https://israelpolicyforum.org/west-bank-settlements-explained/ The video from Turkish TV with a Rabbi condemning Israeli aggression in Gazahttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_FNtMV2i8-8 Factual article on the British evangelicals behind the Balfour Declarationhttps://balfourproject.org/evangelicals-the-balfour-declaration-and-zionism/ UK Christian teacher David Pawson's lecture:https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=ika1apsadrQ Video of Franklin Graham Meeting Netanyahuhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ozWdH8s32pI Doubts Aloud Links:Please give feedback and ask questions using: doubtsaloud@gmail.com Join the Facebook Group discussions:https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/ Meet us all in person again at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Show Notes
Merry Christmas one and all and what could be more festive than digging into the historical reliability of that Census?
The one Luke uses to set up his nativity narrative. We make our case as to why this matters, after all, Luke is said to be a great historian by many. Then we get to it dealing with the 3 main historical issues with the census as presented by Luke:he says it covered the entire Roman world but there is no record of it elsewhere,he presents this strange idea of ‘everyone’ going to their ancestral home to register andhe that it took place while Quirinius was governor of Syria which was about 10 years after Herod died, but Luke (and Matthew) also place the narrative in Herod’s reign.
Of course we dig into the better defenses apologists and bible scholars have proposed.
Links etc:
Read the key parts of the narrative: Luke1v5, v26-7 then Lk2v1-8 and then v22 and v39. A simple Uni Idaho link we used to start our research
https://www.webpages.uidaho.edu/ngier/census.htm
Show Notes
This month we (in our view) bravely jump into a completely different form of Apologetics - Presuppositional Apologetics.
It can be a bid disorientating as in Andrew’s words it can be summarised as “God’s word says you are wrong so you have no case to make".
Frances is more measured with her summary: “the only proof of the Christian position is that, unless its truth is presupposed, there is no possibility of proving anything at all”. We give a brief history starting from Cornelius Van Til “the Father of presuppositionalism”. It is linked with Calvinism, also called ‘Reformed Theology’.
It’s use in other religions and branches in Christianity is informative, as it’s usual bedfellow – Young Earth Creationism. There will be a Part 2 on this next year. Links:If you need more we recommend the treatment by the Reasonable Doubts podcast – episodes 97 & 98.
Frances mentioned an article by Keith A. Mathison- here’s the link:https://tabletalkmagazine.com/posts/christianity-and-van-tillianism-2019-08/ Doubts Aloud Links:Please give feedback and ask questions using: doubtsaloud@gmail.com Join the Facebook
Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person again at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Show Notes
In this episode Andrew shares his research on the origins of the Book of Mormon and the early roots of the Mormon church. This includes discussing the belief that gold plates were discoverd near New York in the early 19th century that gave the purported story of jews emigrating from the holy land to the americas in around 600 BC. Andrew also covers aspects of the character and background of the founder of the Mormon church, Joseph Smith. Also discussed is the cultural context and setting with the probable sources that influenced the formation of the book of Mormon. We also discuss the very facinating succesors to the Jospeth Smith, Brigham Young and also his rival, a certain James Strang and his very facinating story.
For the hosts of this podcast we cannot help but see so many parallels with Mormonism and evangelical christianity. The many schisms, the fundamentalist and progressive divide, the apologetic strategies, prophecies that were unfullfilled and the pure devotion and passion for the book of Mormon as the word of God. All these aspects ring so true with evanglical christianity. Its easy as outsiders to see right through Mormonism but not so easy to look at ones own faith with the same level of honest critiscism.
We have so much evidence to wade through with Mormon history and we can't help but think what would the early roots of Christianity look like if we had the wealth of contempory evidence that Mormon history has at our disposal. Would it bring to light the dark side of the human interactions and stories surrounding christian origins that would shock us if the reality was like that of the history of the Mormon church?
The facinating story of James Strang, a contender to succeed Josepth Smith.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Jl83_X1Zslw
**Show Notes
Andrew has been following a story about a ‘Curse Tablet’ found at an archaeological site in Israel which proponents claim should up-end Biblical Archaeology in such a way as to confirm the conservative evangelical view of the Torah – the first five books of the OT. We look into it and hear from both sides.
This led on to Ed introducing the chapter in the ‘50 Arguments for God’ book on Biblical Archaeology. It concentrated on the NT and we picked up especially on one claim in the chapter, that the archaeology concerning 1stC tombs around Jerusalem helped confirm the gospel account. After some digging (yes, a pun) we think that we unearthed (sorry) a different story.**
**Links:
Link for apologists making hay on Curse Tablet: Sean McDowel with the main proponent
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FEVEKX_0x08
And after the push back, another episode with a Christian scholar who dismissed the Curse Tablet
https://youtu.be/SBmuNw59AOg
Responses from academic, Dr. Robert Cargill
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tkBByBE2OUo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-0Scp85Nlnk**
This episodes is Part 2 of a 2 part show with just with Andrew on his own and and he recounts in detail his own de-conversion story.
This episodes is Part 1 of a 2 part show with just with Andrew on his own and and he recounts in detail his own de-conversion story.
Show Notes
We continued our discussion with friend of ours Josh Parikh - a Christian Apologist who has always thought deeply about the issues and maintained intellectual integrity.
There were two Old Testament case studies that Josh included in his talk “A Tumultuous Period in Apologetics?” to the Discussion Group in London, and we were keen not to miss these out: the famous story of bears mauling 42 children and the patriarchy with misogamy in both the narratives and especially in prophets Hosea 2, Nahum 3 and most horrifyingly in Ezekiel 16.
We also covered some feedback on Part 1 concerning the American church and apologetics scene ... we gave the UK view on it and feedback from US listeners would be great.
Links:
“God: An Anatomy” by Francesca Stavrokopoulou
“Raw Revelation: The Bible They Never Tell You About” by Mark Roncace
“The Violence of God and the War on Terror” by Jeremy Young
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please give feedback and ask questions using: doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Show Notes
Josh Parikh is an old friend of ours having contributed to our Discussion Groups over many years as a Christian Apologist who has always thought deeply about the issues and maintained intellectual integrity. He has been on a journey, especially having engaged with Biblical scholarship. This has overlapped with his time at Oxford University and continued since graduating. Like many, he has remained a Christian and has moved in a ‘progressive’ direction. Josh recently gave a talk “A Tumultuous Period in Apologetics?” to the “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in London, and we were eager to have him share that material on the show. Josh sees a crisis not just in the scandals such as with Ravi Zacharias but at a root conflict between the aims of apologetics in conservative Christianity and the commitments involved in genuine scholarship.
We had so much to talk about that we will need 2 shows to benefit fully from Josh’s wisdom.
Links:
We strongly recommended this podcast: “The Rise & Fall of Mars Hill”
Randal Rauser books in conversation with atheists:
“God or Godless?: One Atheist. One Christian. Twenty Controversial Questions.” by John W. Loftus and Randal Rauser 2013
“An Atheist and a Christian Walk into a Bar: Talking about God, the Universe, and Everything” by Randal Rauser and Justin Schieber 2019
Josh recommends: “The Death and Resurrection of the Beloved Son – the Transformation of Child Sacrifice and Christianity: The Transformation of Child Sacrifice in Judaism and Christianity” 1995 by Jon D Levenson
YouTube clips :
The film Andrew mentioned -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLbDSxTUuIo
The apologist who previously was hot on resolving contradictions -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dk1cPnnz-Go
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please give feedback and ask questions using: doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person again at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Show Notes
For Part 2 of our discussion of same-sex relationships, sexual practice and the Bible, we start with background and origins for the OT Law (we covered its interpretation in Part 1). One scholar has identified an evolution in the laws in Leviticus from a more lenient view to the harsh one found in the final text.
Frances has researched reactions to these laws in Jewish writings and that led to a wider ‘world tour’ or religious treatment of the issues.
Links:
See pp 291 & 292 here for ANE background
https://helda.helsinki.fi/bitstream/handle/10138/325479/EBR_Homosexuality.pdf?sequence=1
And here for the possible evolution in the laws in Leviticus by Idan Dershowitz https://www.academia.edu/37294841/The_Secret_History_of_Leviticus_New_York_Times
Here is Dr Michael Brown’s commentary
https://archive.askdrbrown.org/library/creating-new-version-leviticus-support-gay-sex
Links for mediaeval and modern Jewish thought
https://www.myjewishlearning.com/2013/04/19/to-plant-or-not-to-plant-seed-the-truth-of-homosexuality-in-the-bible/
https://www.myjewishlearning.com/article/orthodox-judaism-and-lgbtq-issues/
Links used for the ‘world tour’ –
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_and_religion
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_themes_in_mythology
On Natural Law ethics the Reasonable Doubts episode was #61:
“The Curious Case of Robert P. George”.
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please give feedback and ask questions using: doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person again at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Episode 61 – Show Notes
Occam’s Razor shows us how simple explanations are superior to complex ones and so simplicity is a concept that might lead us to believe in God as this one simple concept – a supernatural personal agent – can explain all the complexities of the world. We try to assess this line of thinking, especially using the work of the Oxford Christian philosopher Richard Swinburne who favours the approach. This then leads into the doctrine of Divine Simplicity which was prominent in the Medieval church (eg Aquinas). Of course Andrew brings us down to earth with what the Bible says about God and his simplicity.
Links:
BBC In Our Time podcast on Occam
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b007m0w4
Learned articles on Occam:
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/simplicity/
... and on Divine Simplicity
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/divine-simplicity/
To find a place where Swinburne’s ideas that Ed describes are set out without reading his book:
https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/cosmological-argument/
Start well down where it says “In place of a deductive argument, Swinburne develops .....”
The Unbelievable? Show which has Swinburne discussing with Bart Ehrman on suffering
https://www.premierunbelievable.com/unbelievable/unbelievable-10-jan-2009-the-problem-of-suffering-ehrman-and-swinburne/11625.article
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person again at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Episode 60– Show NotesJohn Nelson returned as our guest to start off 2023. He’s been monitoring the debate about what literary genre we should consider the gospels to be and what the implications would be if they are taken as biography in the Greek & Roman tradition. The question fits with his studies for his PhD at the University of Edinburgh in Christian Origins.
John maintains that understanding biography allows us to avoid the crass literalism of fundamentalism (and its attendant overconfidence in our ability to recover the historical Jesus), on the one hand, and an equally flat dismissal of its historicity on the other. We chat about the different ways both apologists and counter-apologists misuse ancient biography for their historicising or mythologising agendas. I.e. we’re very much the pupils this episode. Links:
The Unbelievable? Show which sets up this discussion (With Mike Licona and Richard Burridge)It’s the episode of 16 June 2017 ‘Why are there differences in Gospels?’ Also find these in your podcast app:‘NT Review’ episode 6 on Burridge’s thesis - they aren't convinced‘NT Review’ episode 17 - on the Prologue to the gospel of Luke – it’s not history but the 'science' genre‘NT Pod’ episode 98 with guest Robyn Walsh The book “Gospel Fictions” by Randel Helms that Andrew discussed (again):
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Gospel-Fictions-Randel-Helms/dp/0879755725
Doubts Aloud Links:Please give feedback and ask questions using :
doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person again at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London If you see this soon after release ... John will be speaking on the topic on 9 Jan 2023
Episode 59– Show Notes
We had a great time with our guest Paul Thompson of the Skepticule Podcast. Paul has done a lot of research on St Nicolas and his afterlife as Santa Claus which we enjoyed. He also researched scams as part of the UK sceptical community and gave us the benefits by leading us through The Perfect Scam. So all good fun and games for the Christmas season.
Links:
The Unbelievable? Shows on which Paul has been a guest:
20 Nov 2010 – with Philip Yancey on "What Good is God?"
29 Jan 2011 – Human Value & Subversive Stories
Find the Skepticule Podcast in iTunes etc but sadly they are no longer producing new episodes.
To reach out to Paul, ask us by gmail or find him on the official Unbelievable? Facebook discussion group:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/unbelievablejb
(you will find Frances and Ed fairly active there too)
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person again at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Episode 58– Show Notes
Andrew is on a roll again, reporting his research into flat earth beliefs in the Bible. Actually, it is just a component in a whole cosmology of how the ‘heavens’, earth and under the earth fit together. Spoiler – no turtles. This eventually moves on to Ed getting excited over whether Jesus was a flat earther. We can’t help but see how this leads to literalist Bible interpreters becoming flat earthers - as in members of the modern conspiracy theory – and how important they were in the rise of that movement.
Links:
The link with the picture that Andrew mentioned early on
https://pursuingveritas.com/2014/05/14/ancient-hebrew-cosmology/
The Dr Heiser 20 min video lecture that’s really helpful
https://youtu.be/CGQDa9Ojk64
Another discussion from 2 evangelicals if you want it
“Heaven & Earth • Episode 1 - What is the Old Testament referring to as "Heaven"?”
https://bibleproject.com/podcast/heaven-earth-part-1/
We mentioned Skydive Phil debating on this.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w6eEmfcMjDk
Finally the 2018 documentary film to google is “Behind the Curve”.
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person again at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Episode 57– Show Notes
We start with methodological naturalism and whether rejecting can be scientifically legitimate, as this is the next chapter in our 50 Arguments for God book. Chapter title: “The Scientific Status of Design Inferences”. We discuss the argument in the chapter for rejecting methodological naturalism when it comes to the ‘science’ of Intelligent Design. For us the boundaries of this ‘methodological naturalism free-zone’ is the problem.
This leads us on to considering if methodological naturalism doesn’t apply in science or in life. God is seen as intervening in the Bible. What are the implications? Is this what we see in the world? What about the idea that we might have heard in school assembly - we are God’s or Jesus’s hands and feet?
Links:
The book by Thom Stark that we mentioned: “The Human Faces of God” by Thom Stark and John Collins
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Books-Thom-Stark/s?rh=n%3A266239%2Cp_27%3AThom+Stark
And “Evidence for God: 50 Arguments for Faith from the Bible, History, Philosophy and Science” by Mike Licona and William Dembski.
https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=Evidence+for+God%3A+50+Arguments&i=stripbooks&crid=2JZMR7RRQTQ9P&sprefix=evidence+for+god+50+arguments+%2Cstripbooks%2C108&ref=nb_sb_noss
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person again at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Episode 56– Show Notes
We’re delighted to welcome SkyDive Phil back on the show. Not on vegetarianism as we’d trailed (please be patient) but on his recent work on the Kalam Cosmological Argument. The most prominent form of the argument, as defended by Christian apologist and philosopher William Lane Craig, states the Kalam cosmological argument as the following syllogism:
Everything that begins to exist has a cause.
The universe began to exist.
Therefore, the universe has a cause.
The conclusion is then used to fit God to that cause.
Phil has released a long video based on interviews with scientists, philosophers and mathematicians. It covered various ways the premises have been defended. Craig subsequently responded to the video using his podcast YouTube outlet and then Phil prepared a second video to reply to William Craig. Here’s the links to the Phil videos:
https://youtu.be/pGKe6YzHiME
and
https://youtu.be/femxJFszbo8
This was a massive amount of work by Phil and his team and the results are brilliantly helpful. It was great to chat through with Phil on the material, his experience in doing this and how the various participants (not least Craig) view such debate and discussion.
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please leave us a review on iTunes and we will respond to any question asked there with the review.
Or give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Episode 55 - Title Suggestions
- God’s Body
- Does God have a Body?
- God really has a Body and we’re not joking
- The one where God has a body
Episode 55– Show Notes
The idea we explore is that the Old Testament authors all thought that God had a body. For them He wasn’t an ethereal unembodied universal Being. We look at the evidence for this view and the reasons it seems so contrarian a view to take. There is wonderful history here hidden in the Old Testament and in the story of how views have developed since.
Frances shared an infamous legal case from the 19thC. Please see this link which includes a copy of the cartoon she describes:
https://www.secularism.org.uk/the-freethinker-blasphemy-trials.html
As is often the case we (well Frances & Ed, Andrew seems to know it already) gained immensely from “The Bible for Normal People” podcast. In this case episode 147. Here’s the YouTube version:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7aFnRpNQFhI
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please leave us a review on iTunes and we will respond to any question asked there with the review.
Or give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person (after Covid19) at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Episode 53– Show Notes
We start with an argument from our series on 50 Arguments for God’s Existence. This time
“The Argument from Degrees of Perfection” by Catholic philosopher Peter Freeft. The following link gives a summary.
https://peterkreeft.com/topics-more/20_arguments-gods-existence.htm#4
We try our best to do the argument justice while discussing how it doesn’t work for us.
Somehow we drifted into mentioning the recent debate “Theism vs Atheism” between Jonathan McLatchie and Alex O’Connor. Here’s the link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rnIQFI1pYLM
This idea of God’s Perfection led us on to this pair of questions:
1) Would a perfect God create a perfect world?
2) Is this world perfect?
It opened up what the Bible says on God being perfect, which is not just Jesus’s words in Matthew 5v48 “Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.” The Old Testament Yahweh doesn’t come across as perfect. We enjoyed the anger management in Exodus 33v3
The classic Christian response to why our world isn’t perfect while God is perfect is the Fall and Adam and Eve. We go back there again (sorry).
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please leave us a review on iTunes and we will respond to any question asked there with the review.
Or give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person (after Covid19) at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Episode 52– Show Notes
Andrew’s daughter, Jahannah, has a YouTube channel and she takes seriously the possibility of Atlantis being more than a myth. They held a debate together on her channel which Andrew needed to prepare for with a heap of research and reading.
The parallels with research into ancient history of relevance to Hebrew and Christian beliefs made this exercise a great window onto the issues our podcast covers, and so we get stuck in. This drifts in eventually to a brief chat about the ‘curse tablet’ that may be a significant find to add evidence for an early date for the name Yahweh.
Jahannah’s channel is FunnyOldWorld:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCN2Z_nuG5XtVnE998unA3PA
And their debate is called “Dad Debates Atlantis Part 1” (with the 2nd one coming later):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uaVl1CORQDY
The Premier Christianity article on the ‘curse tablet’ which gives both sides:
https://www.premierchristianity.com/opinion/is-this-biblical-curse-tablet-the-most-significant-discovery-in-recent-history/12803.article
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please leave us a review on iTunes and we will respond to any question asked there with the review.
Or give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person (after Covid19) at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Episode 51 – Show Notes
We’re delighted to have a British District Judge as our guest. Not any District Judge but Graeme Smith who is a Christian and has written a book on the evidence for the resurrection, which he considers is excellent. We each enjoy a collegiate discussion with Graeme on various aspects of the book and how he concludes as he does.
The book is “Was the Tomb Empty: A Lawyer Weighs The Evidence For The Resurrection” Feb. 2014
Here’s a purchase link:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Was-Tomb-Empty-Evidence-Resurrection/dp/0857215280
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please leave us a review on iTunes and we will respond to any question asked there with the review.
Or give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person (after Covid19) at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Episode 50– Show Notes
We celebrate our 50th episode by getting down and muddy in the issue of divine practical advice. Christians celebrate it when ancient advice or OT Law tallies well with modern health advice, but they don’t see the massive misses that there are in the Bible. We spend most of the time diving deep into the example of hand washing with soap, which is simple, within the technology of Bible times and has a massive impact on child mortality rates. Can we expect a loving God to help by giving this advice, especially when He visits earth in the incarnation?
Some of the references and links we mentioned:
Leviticus 13 & 14 for boils and mould. Chapter 15 for “an unusual bodily discharge” where there is lots of references to washing things and the only reference (v11) to anything remotely like hand washing in the community connected to health or food or sanitation or anything useful.
The Christian podcaster excited about God’s blessing in the Leviticus mould advice (we played this from 8min40s on):
https://www.wholewordpodcast.com/790475/8617765-leviticus-14-mold-abatement-3500-years-before-science
The key New Testament passage on Jesus’ response to the Jews developing handwashing traditions around food is Mark 7:1-23. Ed made a meal from verses 8-9 and also 18-19.
The link for these Jewish handwashing traditions around food:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Handwashing_in_Judaism
Links for handwashing in general, when there is no clean water available and on soap
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hand_washing
https://globalhandwashing.org/about-handwashing/faqs/
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soap
Finally the where Ed got objections using the Unbelievable Facebook discussion group:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/unbelievablejb/posts/3926152774151876/
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please leave us a review on iTunes and we will respond to any question asked there with the review.
Or give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person (after Covid19) at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Text for DA Podcast Ep 49
Episode 49– Show Notes
We were delighted to welcome back friend-of-the-show Steve Tomkins to tell us all about the theological debates in late Tudor England which were conducted using, at one extreme, burnings at the stake and, at the other extreme, scurrilous publications akin to a 16thC Private Eye. Much of the material that Steve shared is in his recent book:
The Journey to the Mayflower: God’s Outlaws and the Invention of Freedom (2020)
If you want to know anything about Church history or really anything that matters, please see Steve’s other books:
A Short History of Christianity (Lion Histories) 2005
The Clapham Sect: How Wilberforce's Circle Transformed Britain 2010
William Wilberforce: A biography 2007
David Livingstone: The Unexplored Story 2013
My Ministry Manual by Rev.Gerald Ambulance 2003
Jesus and His World - Paul and His World (Steve wrote the Paul part) 2019
John Wesley: A Biography 2003
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please leave us a review on iTunes and we will respond to any question asked there with the review.
Or give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person (after Covid19) at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Episode 48– Show Notes
This month we discuss Open Theism which is based on the idea that God doesn’t know the future choices that free agents will make. It is a relatively new idea within the history of Christianity and it has received increasing attention in recent years with thinkers such as Greg Boyd promoting it. The narratives in the Old Testament tend to indicate this view of God’s knowledge as God is a more human type of character when compared to the ‘omni’ God of classical Theism which follows from classical Greek philosophy such as Aristotle. We discuss the implications on issues such as prayer and changing God’s mind, prophecy which requires God to know the future and the Problem of Evil. We end with a quick discussion of how Islam and Judaism fit in with this.
Links:
We mentioned a few links and sources:
Dr William Hasker being interviewed on Open Theism
https://youtu.be/csGWj1pgrxE
The Unbelievable Show episode on this from May 2016 with James White & John Sanders
https://www.premierchristianradio.com/Shows/Saturday/Unbelievable/Episodes/Unbelievable-Is-Open-Theism-a-heresy-James-White-vs-John-Sanders
The extract from John Sanders that Andrew played was this (from another debate with James White):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQBECHTVCDM&t=1751
Andrew suggested Greg Boyd’s website as a good place to get the case for Open Theism:
Visit https://reknew.org/ and put ‘Open Theism’ in the ‘Search the Site’ facility
A key 20thC theologian on Open Theism was Clark Pinnock, eg see:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clark_Pinnock
We mentioned several Bible passages, most were easily found stories, but the one we looked at as a possible counter-text for Open Theism is Isaiah 46 v9-11.
Finally we briefly discussed ‘God’s Body’ as rather more than an artistic metaphor in the early texts. This podcast will explain more:
The Bible For Normal People - Episode 147: Benjamin D. Sommer - Does God Have a Body?
Find it here (or via your podcast app):
https://peteenns.com/podcast/
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please leave us a review on iTunes and we will respond to any question asked there with the review.
Or give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person (after Covid19) at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Episode 47 – Show Notes
It is a delight to welcome back John Nelson to the show after his time with us back in Episode 3. We got to know John in the London Unbelievable Discussion Group when he was an undergraduate at Nottingham studying theology. He has since moved on to post doctoral research at Oxford University and now Edinburgh. He has tended to concentrate mostly on the gospels, a topic of enduring interest to us. We chat about research into the historical Jesus, the genre of the gospels and - partly due to the season .
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please leave us a review on iTunes and we will respond to any question asked there with the review.
Or give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person (after Covid19) at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Episode 46– Show Notes
We start with the Gospel of Thomas as it the next chapter in our 50 Arguments for God book. Why do people talk about it? What is it? What is its history? What do we learn from it? This all raises the issue of lost early Christian documents - the surviving ones are the ‘winning’ ones, those which scribes chose to copy and keep preserved.
Thomas also raises the issues of Orthodoxy, Heresy and Diversity of Beliefs. We continue that discussion for the rest of the show. The towering figure here is German scholar Walter Bauer who changed the way academics think about this with his book published in the 1930s. “Orthodoxy and Heresy in Earliest Christianity”. A great way for podcast fans to learn more on him and his legacy is episode 26 of the podcast “The NT Review”
Walter Bauer covered the 2ndC AD and we move on to discuss the 1stC where we have even less material outside those preserved in the New Testament. We look at those documents, along with the Didache which most date in the 1stC, and see both
1. The various factions, disputes and diversity of beliefs being addressed in the letters, Acts and even the gospels.
2. The diversity of beliefs regarding core Christian doctrines, such as Salvation.
Links:
Andrew mentioned a 2ndC book pretending to be by some of Jesus’ disciples and it was speaking against Paul. …..
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person (after Covid19) at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Episode 45– Show Notes
We discuss the New Testament Book of Revelation using Andrew’s research and knowledge, as we did for Daniel last month. Things are more complex than for Daniel and we leave things a bit more open. The issues of when it was written and by whom are more straightforward perhaps, but what the author is trying to achieve with all the strange imagery and use of apocalyptic genre is not clear. We discuss that along with the massive use of the Old Testament in Revelation, the way the author invites us to expect near immediate fulfilment, the invitation in the text to do decoding, whether this is a crafted text or reporting of amazing dreams/visions and of course the violence - human suffering from God’s wrath - that is described.
Links:
We mentioned the Naked Bible podcast by an evangelical scholar, Dr Michael Heiser, which introduces the book of Revelation, it is episode 352.
https://nakedbiblepodcast.com/podcast/naked-bible-352-introducing-the-old-testament-in-the-book-of-revelation/
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please leave us a review on iTunes and we will respond to any question asked there with the review.
Or give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person (after Covid19) at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Episode 44– Show Notes
We discuss the Old Testament Book of Daniel using Andrew’s research and knowledge. The main controversy surrounds whether it is written by Daniel himself as it purports to be (6thC BC) or someone claiming to be Daniel in the 2ndC BC. As it turns out this is only a controversy when conservative scholars are around. We discuss the reasons why the mainstream date Daniel at the juncture when the ‘prophecies’ suddenly turn from accurate to hopeless. The significance of this of course impacts on the use of Daniel by apologists, but the significance extends too to the use of it in the New Testament.
Links:
The quote from Richard Carrier:
https://www.richardcarrier.info/archives/18242
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please leave us a review on iTunes and we will respond to any question asked there with the review.
Or give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person (after Covid19) at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Episode 43 – Show Notes
It is a delight for us to have a long chat with Ed’s friend Krish Kandiah, a Christian author and leader in the UK on adoption, fostering, social action and welcoming the vulnerable to our shores. He has written a successful book ‘Paradoxology’ which covers a lot of ground that can cause doubts for believers and has been significant in our journeys. In particular the narratives seeming to describe genocide of Canaanites at the command of Yahweh. He sees this as a paradox between God’s love and justice and what we read, say in Joshua, as we do. Krish’s approach is to embrace the paradox and understand it within wider ones, such as the Trinity, rather than brush it away under the carpet.
Here is the Amazon page for the book:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/s?k=paradoxology+by+krish+kandiah
Look out for other books by Krish including ‘Faitheism’ on good relations between Christians and atheists as we discuss the issues.
As we discussed both care for the vulnerable and punishment in hell we discussed this passage often called the ‘Parable of the Sheep and Goats’: Matthew 25v31-46
And then when we were diving deep into commands and rules concerning the killing of women and children in the conquest, we discussed this passage: Deuteronomy 20v10-18
Krish is also a podcaster – called Leadershift. Please search for it in your podcast provider.
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please leave us a review on iTunes and we will respond to any question asked there with the review.
Or give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person (after Covid19) at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Episode 42 – Show Notes
After promising this for a while, at last we tackle Mythicism which in our context is the idea that Jesus never existed as a historical human being. None of us subscribe to the idea but we find it an interesting idea and movement to learn from, both in what they use as evidence and what kind of person believes in Mythicism. It leads us to question what we can actually determine about Jesus of Nazareth that isn’t myth, either from Jewish or Greek/Roman stories and tropes.
Some links:
The discussion with Robyn Walsh on her new work about use of Roman tropes (or not) in the gospels, we had listened to it on the NT Pod:
https://podacre.blogspot.com/2021/06/nt-pod-98-origins-of-early-christian.html
The book on use of material from the Old Testament such as Elijah and Elisha in the gospels:
"Gospel Fictions" by Randel Helms 1988
The BBC Radio 4 discussion on Agrippina the Younger
“In Our Time” episode of 31 March 2016 -
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b074yzwk
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please leave us a review on iTunes and we will respond to any question asked there with the review.
Or give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person (after Covid19) at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Episode 41 – Show Notes
It is a delight for us to have a long chat with our friend ‘SkydivePhil’ - Phil Halper. He’s best known for his YouTube channel and has twice been on Unbelievable discussing cosmology and also, for his first appearance, animal suffering. Phil is a vegetarian and sees how the issue of animal suffering is a much more powerful argument against theism than is generally realised. It is that subject that we were keen to discuss, especially because Phil and some of his contacts have just published an important paper on the topic. The paper is not so much philosophy/theology but focuses most on the science of animal pain and suffering, asking the question of the degree to which animals suffer as we do when they experience pain. The conclusions from this are vast, but we stick in this episode to how it informs arguments against theism based on what we now know of animal suffering.
SkydivePhil’s Youtube channel is here
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCtOgKmAM4MeFu-jd-HB3_cg
The best link for Phil’s paper is here, it is free to read for its first three months https://www.tandfonline.com/doi/full/10.1080/09515089.2021.1914829?src=&journalCode=cphp20
Within the SkydivePhil channel, we suggest you look under “Animal videos” and especially Phil’s discussion with Randal Rauser:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WoRm8Rg4Lh0
Phil’s appearances on Unbelievable…..
On Animal Suffering, with Michael Murray:
https://www.premierchristianradio.com/Shows/Saturday/Unbelievable/Episodes/Unbelievable-Animal-suffering-and-God-Michael-Murray-vs-Phil-Harper
On Big Bang:
https://www.premierchristianradio.com/Shows/Saturday/Unbelievable/Episodes/Unbelievable-Has-the-Big-Bang-gone-bust-Phil-Harper-Jeff-Zweerink
On Multiverse:
https://www.premierchristianradio.com/Shows/Saturday/Unbelievable/Episodes/Unbelievable-Who-s-afraid-of-the-Multiverse-Jeff-Zweerink-Skydive-Phil
For Sethien cosmology see here (OT God is evil, despite creating the world. Gospel of Judas etc)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sethianism
The material that eventually led Phil into becoming vegetarian was from the philosopher Robert Nozick , it can be found here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarchy,_State,_and_Utopia#Moral_constraints_and_the_state
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please leave us a review on iTunes and we will respond to any question asked there with the review.
Or give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person (after Covid19) at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Episode 40 – Show Notes
It is a delight for us to have a long chat with our friend Justin Brierley, the founder and host of the Unbelievable Show (search “Unbelievable?” in your podcast App) where Christians and Atheists meet for respectful dialogue. The show is how the rest of us met each other.
We discussed in particular chapter 3 of Justin’s Unbelievable? book, written in 2017:
“Unbelievable?: Why after ten years of talking with atheists, I'm still a Christian”
Eg: https://www.amazon.co.uk/Unbelievable-after-talking-atheists-Christian/dp/0281077983
Chapter 3 is on human worth, the Moral Argument and morality.
In the discussion we mentioned Tom Holland’s book “Dominion: The Making of the Western Mind”:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Dominion-Making-Western-Tom-Holland/dp/0349141207
Why not pick up on Justin’s offer to join in with the recording of his next BIG CONVERSATION with NT Wright and Douglas Murray on Thurs 13th May 2021:
https://www.thebigconversation.show/mythmiraclesandidentity
And don’t forget this year’s Unbelievable? Conference on the afternoon of Sat 15th May:
https://www.unbelievable.live/
Finally … a shout out to the Unbelievable? Discussion Group on Facebook hosted by Justin (where Frances & Ed are among the Admins) , which we discussed briefly:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/unbelievablejb
Ask and you’ll get let in soon enough
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please leave us a review on iTunes and we will respond to any question asked there with the review.
Or give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person (after Covid19) at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Episode 39– Show Notes
We discuss the issue of some New Testament letters that have strong evidence to suggest that the author was not who they claimed to be. This practice was not uncommon in that period. We dig a bit deeper on the letter 2 Peter in particular.
We took the opportunity to quickly discuss another chapter from our “50 Arguments for Faith” book: chapter 47 on the NT canon.
What does it say on this issue?
Links:
The academic Bart Ehrman book is “Forgery and Counter-forgery: The Use of Literary Deceit in Early Christian Polemics“, 2013.
Available:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Forgery-Counter-forgery-Literary-Christian-Polemics/dp/0199928037/ref=sr_1_1?dchild=1&keywords=Forgery+and+counter+forgery&qid=1617536611&s=books&sr=1-1
Doubts Aloud Links:
The 50 Arguments for Faith book: “Evidence for God: 50 Arguments for Faith from the Bible, History, Philosophy and Science” by Mike Licona and William Dembski. (It can be found on Amazon.)
Please leave us a review on iTunes and we will respond to any question asked there with the review.
Or give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person (after Covid19) at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Episode 38– Show Notes
We try to be sensitive as we discuss the recent scandal of Ravi Zacharias’ behaviour as a leading Christian apologist and communicator. This was not just a preaching getting into a sex scandal. There were many victims of abuse by his behaviour and his organisations forceful cover up.
We seek to cover the aspects and implications of interest to atheists and where we have a more personal take on the story, such as Ed’s involvement with Ravi’s ministry in the UK (RZIM in Oxford).
Links:
The report
https://s3-us-west-2.amazonaws.com/rzimmedia.rzim.org/assets/downloads/Report-of-Investigation.pdf
The Unbelievable Show on the scandal and implications:
https://www.premierchristianradio.com/Shows/Saturday/Unbelievable/Episodes/Unbelievable-
The-Ravi-Zacharias-scandal-Dr-Diane-Langberg-Glen-Scrivener-and-Steve-Baughman-on-lessons-we-need-to-learn
Premier Christianity coverage and reflection
https://www.premierchristianity.com/Blog/5-helpful-reflections-on-the-Ravi-Zacharias-scandal
The statement Ed was sent in 2017 by RZIM in Oxford
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1n3cSBwEYqwYr9BQnJ-TEXYYP9Jjx96uU/view?usp=sharing
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please leave us a review on iTunes and we will respond to any question asked there with the review.
Or give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person (after Covid19) at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Episode 37– Show Notes
We continue the discussion from the last episode which had launched from the chapter in our favourite Apologetics book - "How Darwinism Dumbs Us Down: Evolution and Postmodernism". This time we discuss the theists’ side of deriving confidence in our knowledge (quoting the book): “an absolute mind as the basis for trust in human cognition”, i.e. being in God’s hands when it comes to what we can know.
So what does happen when theists face their own source for determining truths and knowledge, which boils down to a reliance on God not deceiving them. Are they Dumber?
We discussed the philosophy of how we can know that an all powerful God isn’t deceiving us and then we couldn’t help ourselves and turned to the passages in the Bible (Old and New Testament) where God does actively deceive. (See 1 Kings 22, Ezekiel 20:25 onwards and 2 Thessalonians 2:11 for starters)
Ed thought that it might still be OK to live under a good loving God who may well be deceiving so that he (Ed) would just think what he was supposed to think. The question of knowing whether God is indeed good then comes to the fore. We looked at that too and had great trouble seeing how we could get there without merely trusting God’s supposed message to us that He is good.
Links:
Andrew’s YouTube clips on prophecies of Trump’s election win:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9gIAtDxyTaM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfDouDlHM88
Frances’ article by Dallas G Denery II, associate professor of history and chair of the history department at Bowdoin College in Maine, where he discusses the history of the theologians’ struggle with the issue of divine deception.
https://aeon.co/essays/how-the-scientific-revolution-made-an-honest-man-of-god
Ed’s Christian site “Answering Islam” that claims to show that Allah is deceiving:
https://www.answering-islam.org/Shamoun/allah_best_deceiver.htm
Frances’ quote by Bertrand Russell on the absence of good:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Absence_of_good
The Unbelievable episode on ontological argument
https://www.premierchristianradio.com/Shows/Saturday/Unbelievable/Episodes/Unbelievable-
Debating-the-Ontological-Argument-Peter-S-Williams-Peter-Millican
Doubts Aloud Links:
The 50 Arguments for Faith book: “Evidence for God: 50 Arguments for Faith from the Bible, History, Philosophy and Science” by Mike Licona and William Dembski. (It can be found on Amazon.)
Please leave us a review on iTunes and we will respond to any question asked there with the review.
Or give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person (after Covid19) at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Episode 36– Show Notes
We started with the next random chapter from our favourite Apologetics book "How Darwinism Dumbs Us Down: Evolution and Postmodernism". The idea is that knowledge arrived at for survival purposes is not likely to include metaphysical truth, so evolution undercuts any confidence in concluding naturalism or atheism. This quickly morphed to the more well-known presentation by Alvin Plantinga, which he called the Evolutionary Argument Against Naturalism (EAAN). We discussed it at some length, including how evolution has indeed not endowed us with perfect brains, rather ones subject to plenty of flaws. This is the outcome of observation not philosophical speculation. So we are all Dumb.
We hinted at where this will be going in the next episode: what happens when theists face their own source for determining truths and knowledge, which is a reliance on God not deceiving them.
Are they Dumber?
We didn’t mention specific references to our material beyond Wikipedia, there is a lot of further reading available by doing a google search on the EAAN.
Doubts Aloud Links:
The 50 Arguments for Faith book: “Evidence for God: 50 Arguments for Faith from the Bible, History, Philosophy and Science” by Mike Licona and William Dembski. (It can be found on Amazon.)
Please leave us a review on iTunes and we will respond to any question asked there with the review.
Or give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person (after Covid19) at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Episode 35 – Show Notes
Andrew continued the long story of hell, picking up with St Paul. The various twists and turns (and torments) were related up to today.
We frequently mentioned Chris Date, he was our guest in episode 9.
Then Ed talked through his material on the apologetics of defending hell, based on a paper he wrote with Josh Parikh, find it here:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Zq-BQro4qIaVMQNX6t4tMGRWIm5uVNc5/view?usp=sharing
Finally we became festive and Frances provided some Seasonal debunking. First in her sights was a myth about the shepherds at the nativity, such as given here:
https://www.premierchristianity.com/Past-Issues/2014/December-2014/Christmas-Scandals
Her source material was partly from ‘Facts and Trends’:
https://factsandtrends.net/2015/12/17/christmas-urban-legends-shepherds-as-outcasts/
And Frances mentioned the Jewish take on shepherds
https://www.chabad.org/library/article_cdo/aid/1762017/jewish/People-of-the-Land.htm
For good measure Frances then took on an atheist’s myth about Jesus and Mithras, such as was peddled on the BBC’s QI:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MSm7YPMQOSo&feature=emb_logo
See Tim O’Neil’s work on this one:
https://historyforatheists.com/2016/12/the-great-myths-2-christmas-mithras-and-paganism/
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please leave us a review!
Or give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person (after Covid19) at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Episode 34 – Show Notes
We started with a quick update on our Atonement series from 2018 with a discussion arising from the recent Unbelievable Show
https://www.premierchristianradio.com/Shows/Saturday/Unbelievable/Episodes/Unbelievable-Debating-Wrath-Sin-and-Penal-Substitution-William-Lane-Craig-and-Greg-Boyd
We applaud WLC for giving it a go to explain Penal Substitution rationally, but Frances’ legal mind unpicked his arguments based on precedents in US/UK law: employer’s liability and legal fictions.
The we got stuck into hell with Andrew giving his story of anguish, research and discovery on it as a Christian. This led into a discussion on the emotional aspects of holding a belief in traditional hell.
Then we started the long story of hell and afterlife beliefs with the early Old Testament, where there seemed to be no belief in the afterlife, through to Jesus who did teach frequently on hell in Matthew, Mark & Luke, together with useful material in John’s gospel.
Of relevance here is Bart Ehrman’s new book: “Heaven and Hell: A History of the Afterlife” (2020)
And see Andrew’s Christian Diversity on this one:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_V8d-AG8QMk&list=PLIyesuRCrlRFYCYs_XMDKhd_MAyeF8esH&index=10
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please leave us a review!
Or give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person (after Covid19) at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Episode 33 – Show Notes
We discuss how morality really is in human society and whether that fits better with an evolutionary outlook or typical theism. Theists usually appeal to morality as coming from God and expressing His moral nature. So what is morality like ‘in the field’?
Some links we mentioned:
That famous experiment with monkeys and fairness using grapes and cucumbers’.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=meiU6TxysCg
And the video of a monkey trying to revive a fellow in the group at an Indian train station:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVWPbd1UykY
The Netflix series “Orthodox” on escaping an ultra orthodox Jewish culture:
https://www.netflix.com/gb/title/81019069
The Netflix show “The Good Place” which included the trolley problem, in season 2:
https://www.netflix.com/gb/title/80113701
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please leave us a review!
Or give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person (after Covid19) at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Episode 32 – Show Notes
We complete our Summer of Miracles with our guest Robert L White the ‘common sense epistemologist’ and the kind of Christian apologist that we get along with. His podcast is ‘The Robert L. White Show’
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-robert-l-white-show/id1438270488
Robert also blogs on his website
https://www.robertlwhite.net/
Robert is keen that we take the data seriously on miracles and he does have a case with the study done by Dr Candy Gunther Brown with healings from blindness and deafness in Mozambique and Brazil. It is presented in the book:
‘Testing Prayer: Science and Healing’, April 2012 by Candy Gunther Brown
There is also a research paper:
https://www.semanticscholar.org/paper/Study-of-the-Therapeutic-Effects-of-Proximal-Prayer-Brown-Mory/9c68aaab0d5902cef43d1fcc015eb59305f1dd1f?p2df
Robert mentioned and recommended this lecture by Dr. Brown herself giving an overview of her book and work:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rRfLooh3ZOk
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please leave us a review!
Or give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person (after Covid19) at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Episode 31 – Show Notes
We continue giving our Overview of Miracles ‘in the field’ as the claims really show up in the world. Then we use our latest chapter from the 50 Arguments for Faith book to launch discussion on Jesus’ miracles: “The Credibility of Jesus’s Miracles” (Chapter 28, see full book details at bottom)
The links we mentioned along the way …
Frances was on Unbelievable discussing Ken Fish who has a healing ministry and came along with his best stories
https://www.premierchristianradio.com/Shows/Saturday/Unbelievable/Episodes/Unbelievable-Is-miracle-healing-for-real-Ken-Fish-vs-Frances-Janusz-2-healing-stories
Andrew’s Christian Diversity YouTube channel
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rcGJKrkO1LQ
A good talk by a cessationist in that he covers all there is:
https://youtu.be/9o0z-J4RnwE
Frances’ ancient Greek miracles: Asclepius
https://www.degruyter.com/view/journals/opth/open-issue/article-10.1515-opth-2016-0006/article-10.1515-opth-2016-0006.xml
And Epidaurus
https://www.greece-is.com/of-gods-and-dreams-the-ancient-healing-sanctuary-of-epidaurus/
Sathya Sai Baba in India:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Modern-Miracles-Story-Sathya-Prophet/dp/190873325X
The book “Gospel Fictions” by Randel Helms that Andrew discussed:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Gospel-Fictions-Randel-Helms/dp/0879755725
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please leave us a review!
Or give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person (after Covid19) at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
That book: “Evidence for God: 50 Arguments for Faith from the Bible, History, Philosophy and Science” by Mike Licona and William Dembski.
Episode 30 – Show Notes
We start another summer mini-series, this summer on miracles, in response to a letter from Christian in Germany. This episode, we focus mostly on actual miracle stories as presented by people seeking to provide the most compelling cases.
The video from Lee Strobel who had done 2 years of research:.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y57VUN2TO5M&feature=youtu.be&t=2077
The most striking case is clearly that of Barbara C Snyder here is a link to it we discuss: http://searchingdeeper.com/SearchingForMiracles.html
Frances mentioned two links on spontaneous remission from multiple sclerosis unrelated to religion.
https://www.sharecare.com/health/multiple-sclerosis-ms/what-is-spontaneous-cure-ms
https://msandbeyond.com/category/spontaneous-remission/
Christian asked us to consider Dr Sean George on Unbelievable last April:
https://www.premierchristianradio.com/Shows/Saturday/Unbelievable/Episodes/Unbelievable-Did-God-raise-Dr-Sean-George-from-the-dead-Sean-George-Hans-Vodder-and-Bradley-Bowen
And here is the response pdf from the atheist guest on that show, which Justin gave.
https://thinkingcriticallyabout.podbean.com/e/nw-miracles-conference-the-resurrection-of-sean-george-powerpoint-pdf/
We stated an overview of the miracles scene in Christianity and general life today, initially noting how they are the exception even in Pentecostal and Charismatic circles, eg the April 2017 Premier Christianity mag p71 by Rob Parsons "Sorry to be awkward, but we need to talk about healing". It is not online. Email us for a pdf of the page.
We discussed the kind of healings Derren Brown can do and his “Miracle” show and his appearance on Unbelievable (including a brilliant internal Premier discussion follow up):
https://www.netflix.com/gb/title/80219802
https://www.premierchristianradio.com/Shows/Saturday/Unbelievable/Episodes/Unbelievable-Derren-Brown-show-2-discussing-miracles-and-healing
Finally here are the two books we mentioned towards the end.
“Heaven And Hell: A History Of The Afterlife” Bart D. Ehrman, March 31, 2020
“The Case Against Miracles” by John W Loftus (Editor), 22 Nov. 2019
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please leave us a review on iTunes and we will respond to any question asked there with the review.
Or give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Meet us all in person at the monthly (now via Zoom during Covid lockdown) “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Episode 29 – Show Notes
This month we welcomed well known British apologist Jonathan McLatchie to share the show with us. Jonathan is a stalwart of the Unbelievable show and can be found here:
www. JonathanMcLatchie.com
https://www.facebook.com/groups/apologeticacademy/
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCr6nvYFyoCk5DsRgYRrhC_g
Jonathan has seen the importance of demonstrating the reliability of the gospels and has researched the use of ‘Undesigned Coincidences’ to do this. It is where incidental details of a story given by two separate authors mesh together in an undersigned way. It leads to greater confidence that the authors are each speaking about the same factual event rather than a legend.
Andrew and Jonathan talk first about the history of Undesigned Coincidences especially regarding the gospels, the approach dates back to the late 17thC and William Paley himself.
There are dozens of these apparent coincidences that scholars and then apologists has used. But we go on a deep dive on just one, from the feeding of the 5000 stories narratives which occur in all 4 gospels (starting Matt14.13, Mark6.30, Luke9.10 and John6.1). It is usually the example Jonathan mentions first.
The discussion seeks to see the relationship between Undesigned Coincidences and New Testament scholarship as it has developed in the centuries since it Paley.
The books and links we mentioned:
Friend of the show John Nelson’s blog
https://medium.com/the-reluctant-convert/some-thoughts-on-undesigned-coincidences-a1949c8bb4f9
“Hidden in Plain View: Undesigned Coincidences in the Gospels and Acts” 2017 by Lydia McGrew
“The Mirror or the Mask: Liberating the Gospels from Literary Devices” 2019 by Lydia McGrew
6 blogs by Jonathan in response to Richard Carrier on Undesigned Coincidences:
http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2020/03/yes-richard-carrier-there-are.html
http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2020/03/can-scribal-errors-account-for.html
http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2020/03/who-has-fabricated-data-lydia-mcgrew-or.html
http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2020/03/is-redaction-usually-better-hypothesis.html
http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2020/03/external-coincidences-and-acts-of.html
http://www.answeringmuslims.com/2020/04/rounding-off-my-response-to-richard.html
Scholarly article “Fatigue in the Synoptics” by Mark Goodacre, 1998
http://www.markgoodacre.org/Q/fatigue.htm
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please leave us a review on iTunes and we will respond to any question asked there with the review.
Or give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person at the monthly (now via Zoom during Covid lockdown) “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Episode 28 – Show Notes
We start by trying to track Christian responses to the virus from before it was known about at all. Were there any prophecies? We include the reasons given which fell to the two extremes of The Devil and God in Punishment mode. Here are Andrew’s links:
Ed noted how this matched this discussion on Unbelievable
https://www.premierchristianradio.com/Shows/Saturday/Unbelievable/Episodes/Unbelievable-2-views-on-suffering-Warfare-vs-Blueprint-Kurt-Jaros-Ken-Brownell
We then started to see prophecies of when it would end, which turned out to be flat out wrong.
We liked this one, Kenneth Copeland from March 13th.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys3CrUdxSGM
The Psalm on protection from pandemics that we read out was Psalm 91 v1-8
This leads to the conflict between belief and good citizenship to save lives.
We then moved onto the more serious apologetic responses to the pandemic, here is Justin Brierrley’s blog:
https://www.premierchristianity.com/Blog/Why-doesn-t-God-stop-Coronavirus-and-mend-the-world?fbclid=IwAR0XepfueN3CFTYIw318EDj3eZ9uNMuvk95djOTIhwJoNwbPngmX7qdFUIE
Key text we read and discussed:
“The Christian story is that the whole created order is in some sense ‘out of kilter’ at a cosmic level. Some theologians trace this to human rebellion – an outworking of ‘the fall’ which acts both forwards and backwards in time. Others point to the existence of an earlier rebellion in the angelic realm that sparked a ‘cosmic fall’ (hinted at in Revelation 12:9).”
And here is John Lennox’s: text blog
https://www.premierchristianity.com/Blog/John-Lennox-If-God-why-coronavirus?utm_source=Premier%20Christian%20Media&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=11462416_Voice%20of%20Hope%2008%2F04%2F2020&utm_content=John&dm_i=16DQ,6TOGG,61BRJF,RC4XP,1
We mentioned the far right Catholics at the end, here is the link we used:
https://unherd.com/thepost/catholic-far-right-hatred-of-pope-francis-doubles-down-in-covid-era/
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please leave us a review on iTunes and we will respond to any question asked there with the review.
Or give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person at the monthly (now via Zoom during Covid lockdown) “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Text for DA Podcast Ep 28
Episode 28 – Title Suggestions
Responses to Covid-19
Christian Responses to Covid-19
Christians in Pandemic
Episode 28 – Show Notes
We start by trying to track Christian responses to the virus from before it was known about at all. Were there any prophecies? We include the reasons given which fell to the two extremes of The Devil and God in Punishment mode. Here are Andrew’s links:
Ed noted how this matched this discussion on Unbelievable
https://www.premierchristianradio.com/Shows/Saturday/Unbelievable/Episodes/Unbelievable-2-views-on-suffering-Warfare-vs-Blueprint-Kurt-Jaros-Ken-Brownell
We then started to see prophecies of when it would end, which turned out to be flat out wrong.
We liked this one, Kenneth Copeland from March 13th.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ys3CrUdxSGM
The Psalm on protection from pandemics that we read out was Psalm 91 v1-8
This leads to the conflict between belief and good citizenship to save lives.
We then moved onto the more serious apologetic responses to the pandemic, here is Justin Brierrley’s blog:
https://www.premierchristianity.com/Blog/Why-doesn-t-God-stop-Coronavirus-and-mend-the-world?fbclid=IwAR0XepfueN3CFTYIw318EDj3eZ9uNMuvk95djOTIhwJoNwbPngmX7qdFUIE
Key text we read and discussed:
“The Christian story is that the whole created order is in some sense ‘out of kilter’ at a cosmic level. Some theologians trace this to human rebellion – an outworking of ‘the fall’ which acts both forwards and backwards in time. Others point to the existence of an earlier rebellion in the angelic realm that sparked a ‘cosmic fall’ (hinted at in Revelation 12:9).”
And here is John Lennox’s: text blog
https://www.premierchristianity.com/Blog/John-Lennox-If-God-why-coronavirus?utm_source=Premier%20Christian%20Media&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=11462416_Voice%20of%20Hope%2008%2F04%2F2020&utm_content=John&dm_i=16DQ,6TOGG,61BRJF,RC4XP,1
We mentioned the far right Catholics at the end, here is the link we used:
https://unherd.com/thepost/catholic-far-right-hatred-of-pope-francis-doubles-down-in-covid-era/
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please leave us a review on iTunes and we will respond to any question asked there with the review.
Or give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person at the monthly (now via Zoom during Covid lockdown) “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Episode 27 – Show Notes
It is great to welcome Jared Byas from The Bible for Normal People podcast. We greatly respect his work and find it immensely informative. We each go through our stories of facing the Bible for what it is, and they are quite similar. But Jared and us have ended up in different places. His faith seems as alive as when he held conservative views and yet we have now abandoned ours. We discuss why and the approaches to the Bible left for us.
Jared’s book CAN be pre-ordered already – “Love Matters More: How Fighting to Be Right Keeps Us from Loving Like Jesus” Paperback – September 8, 2020, by Jared Byas (Author) Zondervan
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please leave us a review on iTunes and we will respond to any question asked there with the review.
Or give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Episode 26– Show Notes
We discussed how we got the Bible we have, with its 66 books .. or whatever number of books your Bible has.
And then we turned again to our favourite Apologetics book for inspiration … this time on the Moral Argument. Heads up to John Humblestone from the Unbelievable Facebook discussion group for his list on reasons Christians give for morals being objective.
Here is Frances’ link to an essay by Richard Swinburne, a Christian philosopher who rejects the argument from morality (because he considers all moral truths to be logical truths.)
http://users.ox.ac.uk/~orie0087/pdf_files/General%20untechnical%20papers/God%20and%20Morality.pdf
Doubts Aloud Links:
The 50 Arguments for Faith book: “Evidence for God: 50 Arguments for Faith from the Bible, History, Philosophy and Science” by Mike Licona and William Dembski. (It can be found on Amazon.)
Please leave us a review on iTunes and we will respond to any question asked there with the review.
Or give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
It is great to welcome Maarij and Farhan, Canadian Ahmadiyya Muslim Apologists, to the show. They share with us why their perspective on scripture. We aim for a non confrontational discussion to explore how they justify belief in their scriptures, how they interpret it and deal with various problems. In particular we use our critiques on Christian scriptures to understand how the Quran may be subject to the same ones.
Maarij and Farhan podcast “The Conviction Project” which we recommend for a thoughtful apologetic approach on Islam. They can be contacted via: theconvictionproject@gmail.com
Maarij and Farhan recommend reading the Quran here: https://www.alislam.org/quran/read/
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please leave us a review on iTunes and we will respond to any question asked there with the review.
Or give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Episode 24 – Show Notes
It is great to welcome Hassan Radwan to the show. He shares with us his experiences of coming to faith as a Muslim and then living as a Muslim. Eventually his experience was losing it and he talks us through some of the issues that led to him now being an ex-Muslim. His experiences had may parallels with Andrew and Ed’s journeys through faith.
Here is Hassan’s YouTube channel:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJ0sIFZ0VnZ5ta9vxC9PyUA
Hassan has great answers on why he continued in debate and discussion on Islam, rather than just walking away completely. This was a topic Frances, Andrew & Ed had promised to include this month. They add their answers as well. Ed referred to this blog he wrote, which itself gives links to WK Clifford’s work:
https://www.patheos.com/blogs/tippling/2018/02/23/doubts-aloud-asking/
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please leave us a review on iTunes and we will respond to any question asked there with the review.
Or give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Episode 23 – Show Notes
This is our first ever Christmas special. We do our best to be seasonal in the middle of a wet November General Election season.
First we mull over the changes that come over us all during Christmas, we call it communal madness like when football fever strikes us when the World Cup comes round. Is it good? What does it say about us all as humans?
Then we take the opportunity of a Christmas Special to have a look at the nativity stories in Luke and Matthew. Our line is not so much the details and contradictions, rather how they fit in the overall picture of narratives in the gospels and how the gospel authors derived their material. The implications end up being as much about the Easter narratives as the Christmas ones.
Links we mention
Bart Erhman & Peter Williams on Unbelievable?
https://www.premierchristianradio.com/Shows/Saturday/Unbelievable/Episodes/Unbelievable-Peter-J-Williams-and-Bart-Ehrman-Are-the-Gospels-historically-reliable
BBC one-off podcast series “The missing cryptoqueen”
https://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p07npk7p
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please leave us a review on iTunes and we will respond to any question asked there with the review.
Or give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Episode 22 – Show Notes
We take two topics connected the beginning of the world, at least as presented early in the book of Genesis. Firstly for “Reason and God” we turn to an argument not covered in the 50 Arguments for Faith book but nevertheless well-liked by apologists: the Kalam Cosmological Argument. It will be familiar to many of our listeners so we discuss it in general and make a few personal observations on it rather than cover all the many problems its detractors identify. For example:
Frances discusses a possible conflict with a belief which is cherished by many theists: libertarian freewill,
Andrew enjoys comparing this pure philosophy to Genesis chapter 1, and
Ed hones in on definitions of the term Universe and how this, for him, undermines the whole enterprise.
Here are some links we mention:
Skydive Phil on Unbelievable on the beginning of the universe:
https://www.premierchristianradio.com/Shows/Saturday/Unbelievable/Episodes/Unbelievable-Has-the-Big-Bang-gone-bust-Phil-Harper-Jeff-Zweerink
That infinite number of events issue, as discussed on the ‘Atheology’ Podcast
https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/realatheology/real-atheology/e/55767664
And the ‘Atheology’ Podcast more generally on Kalam:
https://player.fm/series/real-atheology/ra019-the-kalam-cosmological-argument
Our second topic, under “Christian Diversity”, is on Adam and Eve as actual historical figure. We note a surprising lack of diversity on this in Christian thought. We give a survey of the more moderate end of evangelical thinking as well as the Catholic and Orthodox denominations in a search for Christians rejecting this unscientific idea of one couple being the ‘parents’ of all mankind. Ed had thought it was the preserve of very conservative Christians such as Young Earth Creationists. However, we struggle to give examples of rejection of a historical Adam and Eve outside normal liberal believers. Some notable examples of adherence to traditional views are
NT Wright - from 2m50s into
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3BP1PpDyDCw
That 1950 Catholic Encyclical, paragraph 37:
http://w2.vatican.va/content/pius-xii/en/encyclicals/documents/hf_p-xii_enc_12081950_humani-generis.html?fbclid=IwAR001cF-lYxNRGLThICzRTvXyuDSbHx07hBW7gy2R1DudK7dtFf0Bgy938o
The Pontifical Academy of Sciences 22 October 1996 document backing up the 1950 Encyclical:
https://humanorigins.si.edu/sites/default/files/MESSAGE%20TO%20THE%20PONTIFICAL%20ACADEMY%20OF%20SCIENCES%20(Pope%20John%20Paul%20II).pdf?fbclid=IwAR2HC4chdX4WB2WqwuKNylV2-s5Bm4hhAJUjpud1g8wF1erif7ino9SU3AM
An Orthodox modern theologian discussing this Irenaeus (130-202 AD) while laying into Ken Ham
http://www.joeledmundanderson.com/irenaeus-of-lyon-and-the-early-churchs-teaching-of-adam-and-eve-part-1/
And Andrew gave us this from “Creation Magazine”:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1jRlRyrl80E
We should include our friend Denis Alexander and his more nuanced take in our list of links:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EbgMgOKF9u8
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please leave us a review on iTunes and we will respond to any question asked there with the review.
Or give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Episode 21 – Show Notes
This is our third and last episode from our Summer of Slavery, after looking at slavery in the Old and then New Testaments in the first two episodes, here we got going on the impact of all this on Church History. That is one of Steve Tomkins’ areas of expertise, especially the Abolition movement in Britain and its colonies.
First off we needed to cover Frances’ last Myth, no.10: “Christianity Was the Source of the Idea That All People Shared a Common Humanity and This Was What Ultimately Led To the Abolition of Slavery”. What does Steve make of that?
We also had a forlorn attempt at covering things sequentially, starting with the early Fathers. See these links we used:
The early Fathers on punishing slaves
http://www.scielo.org.za/scielo.php?script=sci_arttext&pid=S1015-87582016000200014
Christian slave trade in the medieval Mediterranean
https://www.historytoday.com/justifying-slavery
Of course, the British slave trade was discussed with loads of input from Steve: its origin, early reactions, development and the debates around Abolition. Things were rather different in the more Bible-focussed Southern States. See this essay, a Southern defence of slavery:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1xUI0n53tnl5oPKFQKlOG9HSbQcDM91K_/view?usp=sharing
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please leave us a review on iTunes and we will respond to any question asked there with the review.
Or give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Last time we covered the 5 myths that related to what the OT text says. Frances was keep that we should share this apologists’ talk on
Episode 20 – Show Notes
This is our second episode from our Summer of Slavery, we started by recapping on the list of 10 myths that Frances prepared regarding slavery in the Old Testament. Here is its link:
https://drive.google.com/open?idslavery (David Winger) –
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FlzSF0YjrIk
The recap is summarised by audio from a cartoon sketch we took from YouTube, here is that link
https://youtu.be/2MFmC6BD1B4
Then we quickly got our teeth into the presentation of slavery in the NT. There was both material emphasising the equality of all, in a more spiritual sense, and a comprehensive acceptance of the status quo on the institutions of slavery. We found that the letter to Philemon, which is just about the return of a runaway slave, summed up both these themes nicely.
We moved on to the apologetics responses to biblical material, relying largely on the remaining 5 of Frances’ Ten Myths. Here is a link from her discussion on laws in the state of Georgia
https://www.georgiaarchives.org/documents/Slave_Laws_of_Georgia_1755-1860.pdf
Next episode we will move on into Christian history and slavery, with our friend and expert Steve Tomkins.
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please leave us a review on iTunes and we will respond to any question asked there with the review.
Or give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
After a chat on this year’s London Unbelievable Conference we get going on our joyful summer season … on slavery.
Central to the first episode is a list of 10 myths that Frances prepared a few months ago regarding slavery in the Old Testament. We promised to share the list with its references, and here is the link:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1SAnnRkcSRoYyfE4Y2Lr2oELY1NaCvgGS
Actually we only got through the 5 myths that related to what the OT text says. That in itself is a slight problem as there is a degree of different voices, as we would expect and do see in such texts.
Overriding all this is an important distinction that runs through much of this discussion. There were different rules for Hebrew slaves and foreign slaves in the OT Law.
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please leave us a review on iTunes and we will respond to any question asked there with the review.
Or give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Episode 18 – Show Notes
We give Andrew space to set out some of his thoughts as he prepares to give a talk and lead a discussion on Christian Diversity at the London Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group. He explains the problems and provides his conclusion: A Failure to Communicate.
The slightly dodgy verse used in the ‘Is That in the Bible?’ is: 1 Cor 14:33 RSV “For God is not a God of confusion but of peace”.
We mentioned that Andrew was on the Show itself on this topic, back in 2015, on 11th July, with Nabeel Qureshi:
https://www.premierchristianradio.com/Shows/Saturday/Unbelievable/Episodes/Unbelievable-Can-Christianity-be-true-if-Christians-can-t-agree-on-doctrine-Andrew-Whyte-vs-Nabeel-Qureshi
Andrew’s Christian Diversity YouTube Channel is behind this as well:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC46_vlosspJ-yLFqEK9j8LQ
Next we picked up on the chapter on Eugenics in our 50 Arguments for Faith book:
“Evidence for God: 50 Arguments for Faith from the Bible, History, Philosophy and Science” by Mike Licona and William Dembski. (It can be found on Amazon.)
Frances had done her own research and had additional information that fills out this fascinating episode in 20thC history, especially in the US. We struggled to see how it provided any evidence for God or even put Christianity in a particularly good light. It did give us the chance to discuss the naturalistic fallacy. And of course we went digging for hints of eugenics in the Bible. We would do that, wouldn’t we?
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please leave us a review on iTunes and we will respond to any question asked there with the review.
Or give feedback and ask questions using :
doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Episode 17 – Show Notes
Austin Fischer joins us this month. He is a pastor in Texas … but he has thought deeply about troubling issues in his faith and does not dismiss his doubts with pat answers. We tap into his thinking and give him space to present ideas surrounding suffering. We cover
the ancient book of Job in the Old Testament,
trying to have hearts/emotions big enough to embrace the suffering out there and
the two theological narratives in the Bible on this: a broadly Calvinist approach and one seeing spiritual warfare behind tragic events.
We know of Austin as he was a co-guest with Ed on Unbelievable last year:
https://www.premierchristianradio.com/Shows/Saturday/Unbelievable/Episodes/Unbelievable-A-tale-of-two-doubters-Austin-Fischer-Ed-Atkinson
He has written an excellent book on doubt, largely targeted at Christians:
“Faith in the Shadows: Finding Christ in the Midst of Doubt” 2018. Find it on Amazon etc
We launch the discussion on the theme of doubt because Andrew has just been on Unbelievable himself with the author of another Christian book on doubt:
https://www.premierchristianradio.com/Shows/Saturday/Unbelievable/Episodes/Unbelievable-When-Faith-Fails-Dominic-Done-and-Andrew-Whyte-on-dealing-with-doubt
To contact Austin please use his church website:
https://www.thevista.tv/staff
He would be delighted to hear from you.
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please leave us a review on iTunes and we will respond to any question asked there with the review.
Or give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Episode 16 – Show Notes
We thought that it’s time we had another dip into our 50 Arguments for Faith book (full details below). This time an interesting chapter on Naturalism. We had to discuss what Naturalism is, how it can be defined and whether we own it as a label. Then we could look at the critiques of Naturalism the book provided for us to consider.
The recent Unbelievable Show with our friend Chris Date (episode 9) seemed to cause a bit of a stir. It was on Calvinism and got us intrigued. Andrew gave us a bit of the history, doctrine, etc of Calvinism to put it in context and set us off.
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please leave us a review on iTunes and we will respond to any question asked there with the review.
Or give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
That book: “Evidence for God: 50 Arguments for Faith from the Bible, History, Philosophy and Science” by Mike Licona and William Dembski.
Episode 15 – Show Notes
We enthusiastically mention the Unbelievable Discussion Group in London fairly often (see link at bottom of the notes). This episode we chat over the first 3 of 2019, which have each been corkers.
January - Cambridge scientist & Christian Denis Alexander and his well known work on theistic evolution, such as the book “Creation or Evolution: Do We Have to Choose?” (the answer is ‘no’). We see if his theological work convinces us as much as we respect his science.
February – A friendly Abortion Debate between our Frances and Christian Bruce Blackshaw who is doing a PhD on the Ethics of Abortion at Birmingham University. How did they do? Listen out for that famous pianist and how humans uniquely have ‘rational substance’.
March - James Crossley on Mark’s Gospel. James is an Unbelievable regular, an agnostic and nowadays from St Mary’s University in London. He wrote on Mark (most famously on its dating) and now has developed his thinking somewhat. The talk and Q&A is available here, but sorry, it is poor quality
https://www.dropbox.com/s/oe5iu0cgv4mah52/20190304-193514.m4a?dl=0
Is That in The Bible?
Enjoy Leviticus 27 v1-7, we also mention Exodus 21 v22-25. Ed was shocked.
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please leave us a review on iTunes and we will respond to any question asked there with the review.
Or give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Or give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847We spent the show chatting with Frances’ long standing friend Richard Morgan. He tells us his story of faith which has had more turns than anyone else we have met. He has been an atheist several times as well as Mormon, evangelical, full-on Catholic and cultural Catholic. We explore the way it has left him with a view of knowledge in metaphysics that has all hubris and sure-fire confidence driven out. He challenges Ed on his more optimistic and moral view of gaining knowledge.
Find Richard on facebook, especially by joining the closed Unbelievable discussion group there:
www.facebook.com/groups/unbelievablejb/
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please leave us a review on iTunes and we will respond to any question asked there with the review.
Meet us all in person at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Episode 13 – Show Notes
It was a great privilege to spend time talking with Climate Scientist and Campaigner, Katharine Hayhoe, who is an evangelical Christian based in Texas. (Though, to be fair, she is Canadian!)
We asked Katharine questions related to each aspect of her work and outreach – as a Climate Scientist, a Campaigner and an evangelical in the Bible Belt. Here are some great links that arose from the discussion:
On a possible positive feedback loop that could accelerate global warming:
https://science2017.globalchange.gov/chapter/15/
Katharine’s great TED Talk – “The most important thing you can do to fight climate change talk about it”
https://www.ted.com/talks/katharine_hayhoe_the_most_important_thing_you_can_do_to_fight_climate_change_talk_about_it?language=en#t-1430
And as a Christian - “The Bible doesn’t talk about climate change, right?”
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpjL_otLq6Y
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please leave us a review on iTunes and we will respond to any question asked there with the review.
Or give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Episode 12 – Show Notes
We kick off with another chapter in our “Evidence for God: 50 Arguments for Faith..” book. Chapter 32 “Did Jesus Predict His Violent Death and Resurrection?”. It proved an interesting case study in using historical arguments for such issues, and ended up with the chapter’s author needing to cast doubt on one gospel version of Jesus praying at Gethsemane to show the likely authenticity of another (where he was aware of his impending death before he should know).
Again we felt this was another ‘dud’ argument from the 50 Arguments for Faith book. We turned to our list of better arguments and Properly Basic Beliefs (PBBs) came up. Alvin Plantinga is the most prominent advocate of this approach. He sets out what PBBs are and why he thinks belief in God should be one …. Due to the Sensus Divinitatus, that inner knowing or sense or voice of God.
We set this out and then ran through some objections and how theists have responded. This overlaps with our Episode 8, when we discussed belief based on religious experience with the brilliant Stephen Law. Here we tried to cover other objections.
Finally we asked “Is that in the Bible?” regarding …. Atheists. We started with Psalm 14v1 and 53v1 which both say “The fool says in his heart ‘there is no God’ ”. It seems that this is not actual atheism being discussed. Passages like Romans 1v18 on suggest we can’t be atheist.
Some links we discussed:
ANDREW!!! Your meme on Jesus saying “What?” to eschatological manifestation ..kerygma … etc “ I don’t know the link
Ed mentioned how useful it can be to use the website www.biblegateway.com to select a single verse and then click “…in all English translations” just below it. You see about 70 translations and get the range of possible interpretations.
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please leave us a review on iTunes and we will respond to any question asked there with the review.
Or give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
(Note - 50 Arguments for Faith book:
“Evidence for God: 50 Arguments for Faith from the Bible, History, Philosophy and Science” by Mike Licona and William Dembski. It can be found on Amazon.)
This month we discuss Pragmatic Arguments and the History of Christianity. The latter is an area of expertise for our guest Steve Tomkins and he joined us right through the recording. Steve did a Phd on the subject and is now editor for the in-house magazine of a leading UK denomination. He is also a lot of fun.
We kick off discussing Ed’s appearance on the ’Unbelievable?’ Show of 20-10-2018
https://www.premierchristianradio.com/Shows/Saturday/Unbelievable/Episodes/Unbelievable-A-tale-of-two-doubters-Austin-Fischer-Ed-Atkinson
Ed got the feedback he was fishing for, and then we moved on to the reason his discussion partner on the show, Pastor Austin Fischer, employs to stay in the faith: it is useful for him. Here is the Dostoyevsky quote from Austin’s book “If anyone could prove to me that Christ is outside the truth, and if the truth really did exclude Christ, I should prefer to stay with Christ and not with truth.” We widened the discussion into general Pragmatic Arguments. These replaced the ‘dud’ argument last time from the 50 Arguments for Faith book.
These are not remotely convincing as Arguments, but Steve points out that they are not meant to be. We got on to the most famous example: Pascal’s Wager. Everyone has their take on this and we hope that we don’t disappoint. It is usually a fun topic, especially the likelihood that we will suffer infinite harm in hell.
Steve was on-form as he discussed Church History and what lessons we might take from it. Sadly we could have carried on for another hour and had to call time.
Find Steve on
www.stephentomkins.com (and watch out for Google changing it, adding a rogue ‘p’). He can be contacted there for shows.
His books:
https://www.amazon.co.uk/Stephen-Tomkins/e/B001JRURNI
His Guardian profile:
https://www.theguardian.com/profile/stephen-tomkins
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please leave us a review on iTunes and we will respond to any question asked there with the review.
Or give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
(Note - 50 Arguments for Faith book:
“Evidence for God: 50 Arguments for Faith from the Bible, History, Philosophy and Science” by Mike Licona and William Dembski. It can be found on Amazon.)
Episode 10 – Show Notes
It would be good to have listened to the last episode where we interview Chris Date on doctrines of hell. Here we put it into context using the question: which hypothesis better fits the observations of doctrinal development in the Bible
A. this is normal development of ideas in human culture
B. a divine agent is choosing to reveal doctrines bit by bit, like learning maths at school
This initially arose as we looked at the latest chapter in our 50 Arguments for Faith book, chap 30 “The Son of God”. The chapter correctly identifies Son of God as the Old Testament title for the anointed king of Israel and that initially Jesus was Son of God only in being messiah – ‘anointed one’ – and things developed from there, ending with Jesus viewed as God - a member of the Trinity.
Frances mentioned a great resource:
http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com
This doctrinal development theme then spread to the question of hell and afterlife and the devil, which we covered in Andrew’s ‘Is that in the Bible?’ slot. He selected Ezekiel 28:11-19 where we discussed whether this prophecy about the King of Tyre is also about the Demonic Fall as some later Christian theologians claim.
We recapped our discussions on Old Testament genocides from episode 2, and hence the developing character of God. We also revisited our ‘summer of atonement’ and doctrinal development there.
The Climate Endnote was a longer slot this time. October has been a big month in Climate news with the latest IPCC report with dire news, climate economists winning the Nobel prize and exciting new policy initiatives in the UK. We discussed where viable solutions now stand, and the role of the organisation Ed has joined, links:
https://citizensclimatelobby.org/
and the UK
https://citizensclimatelobby.uk/
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please leave us a review on iTunes and we will respond to any question asked there with the review.
Or give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
(Note - 50 Arguments for Faith book:
“Evidence for God: 50 Arguments for Faith from the Bible, History, Philosophy and Science” by Mike Licona and William Dembski. It can be found on Amazon.)
The main topic of the show is doctrinal development in the Bible, specifically on Hell. We quickly introduce the topic to leave maximum room to hear from our guest, Chris Date. Chris is a layman but now studying theology and he is a deep Christian thinker, in the same way that Andrew was a few years ago. Chris dived deep into the doctrine of hell as it really mattered, and matters now, to him as a believer. He has done his own research work on this and as a result became a key driver in a movement ReThinking Hell. We respect him greatly.
We discuss doctrines of hell, how they arose and wider issues.
http://rethinkinghell.com/
http://fuller.academia.edu/ChristopherDate
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please leave us a review on iTunes and we will respond to any question asked there with the review.
Or give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
After answering some feedback and chatting over Ed’s experience of a charismatic summer camp, we got down to the main topic of the show – religious experience. We discussed how believers typically believe based on this rather than rational arguments or observable evidence. … from Ed’s charismatic fellow-campers to top apologists and philosophers like William Lane Craig and Alvin Plantinga.
This set us up to enjoy a wonderful interview with Stephen Law (of ‘Evil God Challenge’ fame) who wrote a paper on just this topic a couple of years ago. We hear the argument in the paper and discuss challenges to it. Stephen concludes that it is not rational to believe in hidden agents like God or gods based on religious experience. Over to you Alvin …
This month’s links:
Ed at the camp New Wine:
https://www.premierchristianradio.com/Shows/Weekday/Inspirational-Breakfast/New-Wine-2018/Tell-me-why-you-believe-agnostic-asks-Christians-at-New-Wine
Clips of WLC:
https://youtu.be/Q78ahkiMtFk
Stephen Law’s 2016 paper :
https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/42637064.pdf
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please leave us a review on iTunes and we will respond to any question asked there with the review.
Or give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Episode 7 – Show Notes
Like the rest of the sceptical world in 2018 we had to indulge in a brief chat about Jordan Peterson.
We complete our ‘Summer of Atonement’ this month. Andrew gives us an overview of the theories Christians use to try to make sense of it. Frances also gives some thoughts on the full set of philosophical problems with the doctrine. Ed tries to tie it all together to see how it counts as evidence in the assessment of whether Christianity can be true. Can we leave it as ‘mystery’? Or see it as mere demonstration art without genuine substance?
Doubts Aloud Links:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Please leave us a review on iTunes and we will respond to any question asked there with the review.
Or give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Episode 6 – Show Notes
Ed and Andrew report to Frances on their experiences of the Book of Mormon Show in London. We also chat about SkyDivePhil who presented on Animal Suffering at the London Unbelievable Discussion Group. We recommend seeing him debate recently in Texas. Here is a link:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TKQWrbeoA2E
In last month’s show we mentioned an impressive poem by Glen Scrivener “Given” which he read at this year’s Unbelievable Conference. We play his reading and then discuss it. Here is a link to the poem as text:
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1ex8GvfVysyZW4qde6WT83anCr9qQYSgwipUGJCe4jXo/edit
The “Is that in the Bible” slot (Genesis 8:20-22) introduces ideas of sacrificing animals to please or appease God. This leads to a historical take on the Atonement as the next instalment of our continuing discussion we’re calling a ‘Summer of Atonement’. How did the early Christians get to the idea that Jesus’ death could take away sins? The link between animal sacrifice and removal of sins in the Hebrew Bible is surely an important source. But as we look into it these Old Testament ideas don’t seem to hang together that well.
Then Ed is put in the interviewer’s spotlight as he explains his double conversion. He still has breath left to do a Climate Endnote on the old idea the ‘Tragedy of the Commons’, which has relevance to how we should address Climate Change today.
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please leave us a review on iTunes and we will respond to any question asked there with the review.
Or give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Episode 5 – Show Notes
Frances and Andrew report back on the great Unbelievable Conference and we then give the answer ‘no’ to “Is that in the Bible?”. The earliest gospel, Mark, does not have anything at all on the central Christian idea that Christ died to do something about sins.
We then we get to grips with a chapter in our 50 Arguments for Faith book “Is Jesus the Only Way?” This addresses the idea of exclusive truth as well as the apparent unfairness for cultures not familiar with Jesus.
We consider how Jesus could be the Way to God or salvation. This idea that he dealt with sin, called the Atonement, is central. The “Is that in the Bible” discussion highlighted some problems here and they became worse as Andrew introduced us to his YouTube channel on Christian Diversity and the episode on the doctrine of Penal Substitutionary Atonement.
https://youtu.be/P6TnqGa9Z3g
We have decided to dig a bit deeper and make this a ‘Summer of Atonement”. We should all feel a lot better when it is done!
Frances tackles a key problem for Penal Substitutionary Atonement, which is how the guilt of one person can be transferred to another. Christian philosopher William Lane Craig thinks he has solved this and used Anglo-US practice in Law as his basis. That is Frances’ professional expertise and she puts us straight on the matter. Here is Craig’s material
https://www.reasonablefaith.org/media/reasonable-faith-podcast/what-is-the-correct-view-of-the-atonement-part-2/
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please leave us a review on iTunes and we will respond to any question asked there with the review.
Or give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/
Meet us all in person at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
(Note - 50 Arguments for Faith book:
“Evidence for God: 50 Arguments for Faith from the Bible, History, Philosophy and Science” by Mike Licona and William Dembski. It can be found on Amazon.)
Episode 4 – Show Notes
Andrew uses his ‘Is That In The Bible?’ slot to introduce us to a topic he researched deeply when a Christian and is a part of his journey to doubt. The verse is Matthew 24:34 “Truly I tell you, this generation will certainly not pass away until all these things have happened.” It turns out not to be isolated. The prophecy of Jesus’ early return is found throughout the New Testament. So much so that a whole movement in the church believes that he must have returned, but the church fathers did not really notice. There is variety and nuance in these beliefs and Andrew helps us explore them.
Then we move to our section “Reason and God” and we look at a less well known argument for God’s existence by Thomas Aquinas, using his ideas on Essence and Existence. We use this to explore how some, often Catholic, apologists need to us first to adopt medieval thinking to understand the argument they are making.
A good peer reviewed article to pursue this further is on the Internet Encyclopaedia of Philosophy:
http://www.iep.utm.edu/aq-meta/
(You don't have to read past Section 1 & 2. )
Then Frances is in the hot seat as the other hosts interview her regarding her journey to atheism, which she completed rather earlier than Andrew or Ed managed. Watch out for a mention of Anthony Flew.
For the Climate Endnote, Ed mentions G7 government subsidies on fossil fuels, which he found amazing when he heard about them. Ed has started blogging on these Climate Endnotes here:
https://citizensclimatelobby.uk/
Doubts Aloud Links:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1023280847835278/?ref=bookmarks
Please leave us a review on iTunes and we will respond to any question asked there with the review.
Episode 3 - Show Notes
We dive straight into an interview with our first guest –Andrew has a wonderful discussion with a Christian John Nelson who has studied at Nottingham University. John’s studies included a deep dive into Historical Jesus research and he puts the recent and current research approaches into context.
Then we move to our section “Reason and God” and we respond to Chapter 6 of the Christian book “Evidence for God: 50 Arguments for Faith from the Bible, History, Philosophy and Science” by Mike Licona and William Dembski. It can be found on Amazon.
The chapter is “Responding to the Argument from Evil: Three Approaches for the Theist”. The main point we address is the appeal to ignorance of what God would do to make ‘goods’ in the world. How do we know that God isn’t producing a greater good from the death of a child from illness? Cynics may call this ‘playing the mystery card’ but its more honourable name is ‘sceptical theism’. We mention the online 'Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy' on sceptical theism, see
http://plato.stanford.edu/entries/skeptical-theism/
also this is helpful
https://www.iep.utm.edu/skept-th/#SH5a
Our main discussion is on the implications for the believer in adopting sceptical theism, which are unexpected, unwelcome and far reaching (in our view).
For Is that in the Bible?, we look at the verses before that famous “my ways are higher than your ways” verse in Isaiah 55. We start at verse 6 and see a different message.
For the Climate Endnote, Ed gives some parallels between the 1833 Abolition of Slavery in the British Empire and the massive policy change required to properly address climate change. Ed has started blogging on these Climate Endnotes here:
https://citizensclimatelobby.uk/
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please leave us a review on iTunes and we will respond to any question asked there with the review.
Or give feedback and ask questions using : doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/247243319147813/
Meet us all in person at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Episode 2 – Show Notes
We dive straight into our section “Is that in the Bible?” and this month look at Leviticus 27 v28-9– which introduces a scary Hebrew word ‘herem’ that is often translated ‘devoted to destruction’ and is frequently applied to human communities in the Old Testament. Is this human sacrifice?
We spend the rest of the show unpicking the issue of God’s character in the Old Testament where He commands ‘herem’ destruction of cities and peoples. How can the Bible be accurate and God still good and loving? There is a spectrum of Christian responses here, and we attempt to engage with them all. In particular we discuss the two approaches used by the guests on the recent Unbelievable shows on the topic.
https://www.premierchristianradio.com/Shows/Saturday/Unbelievable/Episodes/Unbelievable-Greg-Boyd-Paul-Copan-debate-Old-Testament-violence-and-Boyd-s-new-theology-in-Crucifixion-Of-The-Warrior-God
and
https://www.premierchristianradio.com/Shows/Saturday/Unbelievable/Episodes/Unbelievable-Boyd-Copan-pt-2-debating-Amalekite-destruction-Ananias-and-Sapphira
Should we take this as intellectual material to assess whether the Bible really is from God? In that spirit we will be engaging with a Christian book in many future episodes “Evidence for God: 50 Arguments for Faith from the Bible, History, Philosophy and Science” by Mike Licona and William Dembski. It can be found on Amazon.
Or should we be more moral in tone and condemn the “Apologists for Genocide”?. The 2011 debate in Oxford is pertinent here:
https://www.premierchristianradio.com/Shows/Saturday/Unbelievable/Episodes/Unbelievable-5-Nov-2011-Is-God-a-Delusion-William-Lane-Craig-in-Oxford
Dr Craig defends genocide right at the end of the recording, approaching the 2hr mark.
For the Climate Endnote, Ed sees how easy it is to use policy to drive out the worst polluting fuel - coal. Ed has started blogging these Climate Endnotes here:
https://citizensclimatelobby.uk/
For those not familiar with the Christian Premier Radio Unbelievable Show that we praise, it is podcast as “Unbelievable?” and on the web:
https://www.premierchristianradio.com/Shows/Saturday/Unbelievable
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please leave us a review on iTunes and we will respond to any question asked there with the review.
Episode 1 – Resurrection on Trial & A Journey to Doubt
After introducing ourselves we use Frances’ expertise as a prosecution lawyer to mull over the claim that conflicting witnesses to an event help show its veracity. This claim lies behind some Christian approaches to demonstrate that the resurrection of Jesus must have been an actual physical event in history. We read the trial of Jesus in Mark to guide us (Mark 14 v55-59) and discuss Matthew’s use of prophecy to guide his apparent description of Jesus riding on two donkeys together into Jerusalem (Matthew 21 v1-7).
Andrew moves into the hot seat as we ask him about his journey in faith and doubt. Hear why he called himself “the apocalyptic child” and what influence that had on his whole life. What was behind his doubts? How did he address them? Here is the link for his Christian Diversity YouTube Channel:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mY7ZxvV5qbg&list=PLIyesuRCrlRFYCYs_XMDKhd_MAyeF8esH
We introduce a section “Is that in the Bible?” and this month look at Exodus 22 v29–30 “Do not hold back offerings from your granaries or your vats. You must give me the firstborn of your sons. Do the same with your cattle and your sheep. Let them stay with their mothers for seven days, but give them to me on the eighth day.” We also referenced Exodus 34 v19-20.
For the Climate Endnote, Ed asks how large a solar panel would need to be if it were to power all of humanity.
For those not familiar with the Christian Premier Radio Unbelievable Show that we praise, it is podcast as “Unbelievable?” and on the web:
https://www.premierchristianradio.com/Shows/Saturday/Unbelievable
Andrew’s appearances on Unbelievable were 31/10/2009 on the Return of Jesus, 26/04/2014 with Greg Boyd on Doubt and 10/07/2015 with Nabeel Qureshi on Christian Diversity.
Doubts Aloud Links:
Please give feedback and ask questions using :
doubtsaloud@gmail.com
Join the Facebook Group discussions:
https://www.facebook.com/groups/247243319147813
Meet us all in person at the monthly “Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group” in central London, see:
https://www.meetup.com/Unbelievable-Christian-and-Skeptic-Discussion-Group-London
Facebook Page Intro Text
This is the page for news and discussion around the Doubts Aloud podcast launched in February 2018. Please feel free to post material and engage in discussions.
The podcasters are Frances Janusz, Andrew Whyte and Ed Atkinson. We value the use of reason and evidence to assess matters of faith and worldview. (Should we doubt those assumptions?) We like to discuss philosophy, theology, Biblical Studies and human experience. We greatly value respect for those we disagree with and engaging in genuine discussion. You can meet us all in person at the monthly Unbelievable Christian and Skeptic Discussion Group in central London
We are especially keen to uphold respectful exchanges, so tolerance for rude or demeaning language will be low.