Pizza City with Steve Dolinsky: Recent Episodes
Steve Dolinsky
Steve Dolinsky, author of "Pizza City USA" and "The Ultimate Chicago Pizza Guide" is also founder of Pizza City USA Tours. Every other Friday, he talks to some of the nation's greatest pizza makers, shop owners, pizzaiolos and other legends about their true passion. Discover how they got into the business, what they learned along the way, and how they came up with their delicious recipes. New episodes are available every other Friday.
Dan Kluger took a very different route to pizza making. A classically trained chef who has worked with NYC legends like Danny Meyer, Tom Colicchio, Floyd Cardoz and Jean-Georges Vongerichten, he started Washington Squares as an answer to COVID restrictions, when his restaurant - Loring Place - was shuttered. Now the grandma-style squares are available all of the time from the basement kitchen; even on Goldbelly for nationwide shipping.
From Israel, to New York City and then…Berlin of all places. John Margulies went from clubs and electronic music to pizza, deciding to open his own pizzeria - Magic John's - just days before the world shut down in 2020. Today, he’s on a path toward expanding his brand all over Germany with his unique take on New York style and Detroit style pies. One of the things that has served him well is his innate hustle, and his ability to pivot almost daily. You think you have supply issues? Imagine starting from scratch when it comes to flour sourcing, or cheese and sauce, when there is no such thing as Grande or Bacio or Stanislaus.
What is "L.A. style" pizza? Fred Eric has some strong opinions on the matter. For one thing, it means using local toppings inspired by the immigrants who settled there, so Korean and Latin for starters. But it also refers to the use of kombu in the water used to make the dough. The result at Pi L.A. is an über light and crispy base for a pie that has perfect proportions and OBR (Optimal Bite Ratio).
Brett Nemec has worked his way up in the restaurant industry, and several years ago he decided to take the plunge into pizza. But not the tavern style thin, square-cut slices he grew up with in Chicago's western suburbs; rather, he decided to tackle New York slices, and has been improving ever since he opened in 2021. Zazas is one of several places to find great New York style slices these days in Chicago.
David Sheridan pivoted to pizza long before the pandemic, but even then he realized how important it was to use an all-natural starter for his dough. The pizzas at Wheated, in Flatbush, Brooklyn, are truly worth the journey. He's been perfecting his craft for over a decade, and it shows. His next challenge: bagels during the day.
Pre-Covid, Chris Cutillo was content running a restaurant supply business, dealing with all kinds of places around New York City. But things changed for him during the pandemic, and he went down the rabbit hole, like a lot folks. He opened Austin Street Pizza in a charming block of Forest Hills, Queens. It's easier than you might think to get to his shop, and it's well worth the effort! Big thanks to Serhan Ayhan for the recommendation.
Andrew Bellucci has had a tough couple of years. After opening Bellucci Pizza with a business partner then having a falling out during the pandemic, he struck out on his own - just a half-mile away - opening Bellucci's Pizzeria. Now, in addition to a legal battle, he has to constantly remind guests of his new business, while striving to make the best pizza he can, by using only the best ingredients. His experience working in a pair of Michelin-starred restaurants in Alsace is certainly unique among his peers.
Peter Campbell has been a force in the Minneapolis food community for several years. When he opened Red Wagon Pizzeria in SW Minneapolis, he immediately tackled the issue of sourcing heritage grains for his dough. The result has been nothing less than spectacular. Combining that artisan dough with creative toppings has put Red Wagon in a class by itself.
Jeff Rogers grew up in Minneapolis, though his family is from the Iron Range in Northern Minnesota. His restaurant and bar experience in the Twin Cities led him to open his own place, Wrecktangle, which is certainly inspired by Detroit, but doesn't feel the need to adhere to those regional rules. Jeff creates unique flavors for a pie that is unique among its peers in Minneapolis-St. Paul.
Facundo De Fraia is passionate about all things Argentinean. The Buenos Aires native earned a reputation for making empanadas in the Twin Cities, but soon added pizza to his repertoire when he opened Boludo. His thin, blistered pies emerge from conveyor ovens, as do his Fugazettas - a unique pizza with no sauce, just lots of onions and cheese.
Partners Hannah Ziskin and Aaron Lindell created two businesses during COVID: House of Gluten (Hannah) and Quarter Sheets Pizza Club (Aaron). Now the two have integrated both into a small shop in Echo Park, just off Sunset Boulevard, near Dodger Stadium in L.A. The pies are resplendent with soft crumb (made from various artisan flours) and sturdy crust, the result of an all-natural starter.
Noel Brohner grew up in the 1970s eating a lot of frozen pizza in California. But as the child of parents hailing from both New York and Chicago, his early impressions were shaped by frequent visits to both cities. After a life-changing experience in culinary school, he emerged as a dough whisperer of sorts, helping some of L.A.'s biggest names develop their pizza programs. Known as @slowrisepizza on Instagram, Brohner is now busy eating, baking and consulting all over California. He talked to us just outside one of his latest finds. More info about him here.
Ryan Baddeley is the owner of Pizzeria Badiali, a fantastic slice shop in Queen West, a hipster area in Toronto. We talked about the must-visit places in Toronto (sorry we didn't get to North of Brooklyn) but kudos to our friend Amy Rosen, who insisted we meet for a slice at Badiali. This is a unique pizza in a city full of Neapolitans.
Victor Barry is a chef and restaurateur in Toronto who continues evolving. He’s got three Piano Pianos, a Piccolo Piano plus two shops dedicated to pizza, and now a slowly growing frozen business. I first had his pizza sitting at the restaurant’s bar about six years ago, and I still remember how much I enjoyed it. Very Neapolitan, and very dialed-in to the list of imported ingredients. But most important, he makes sure he has a pizzaiolo who knows how to work the oven.
Chris Getchell is widely acknowledged as the founder, creator, mastermind at Descendant in Toronto. It’s in Leslieville, on Queen East, and it’s among the best Detroit style pizzas anywhere. Steve was back in Toronto a few weeks ago, and so when he set up the interview, expecting to meet Chris, he instead met Ike Tzakis, another partner and pizzamaker there. Ike’s going to break some news on today’s show, so if you’re at all interested in the Toronto pizza scene, listen carefully.
Justin Haines missed his beloved Lou Malnati's so much when he moved to Amsterdam, that he quit his job in logistics to open his own place. Determined to recreate the buttery crusts of his childhood, he sought out an Italian chef, took him to Chicago to eat a ton, then returned to Amsterdam to open The Ugly Duck to attempt to serve Europeans his favorite childhood pizza. It's not exactly Lou's, but it's also not half bad.
Rotterdam native Bas Scheffer has been traveling to Italy since he was a child. That sparked a lifelong love for Italian culture and pizza. During COVID, he and his girlfriend would make pizzas in an Ooni oven, which led to the birth of Pizza Project, a pizzeria just a few blocks from Vondelpark. In a city full of Neapolitan pizzas, this one really stands out, due in part to their longer fermentation and use of a pre-ferment.
Eytan Sugarman certainly has strong opinions about pizza. He grew up on the Upper West Side, eating slices all over the city. So when his friend suggested they open a place together, the research and development phase took on a life of its own. The result is Made in New York Pizza, which opened on the Upper West Side in 2018 and recently opened a second location in the West Village.
Pete Ternes really just wanted to make beer. But when he and his partners opened Bungalow by Middle Brow, their sprawling space in Chicago's Logan Square, they realized they needed to offer something besides just drinks. Bread for sure, but why not pizza? It was an experience at Roberta's in Bushwick that really convinced Ternes he could create something unique in Chicago. The result is one of the best artisan pies in town, with an all-natural starter and a long fermentation.
Copeland Moore is the 4th generation at La Segunda Bakery, which was started by his great-grandfather in 1915 in Ybor City, near the port in Tampa Bay. It's here where Cubans, Spanish, Germans and Italians all settled together. The city was a huge cigar producer and gave birth to the Cuban Sandwich (but with the addition of Genoa Salami, which you don’t find in Miami). This melting pot really influenced the bread, the pastries and the pizza in the area. There are now a half dozen well-known bakeries in the area all offering slightly different versions of scachatta, but the OG is La Segunda.
Darby Aldaco got into some big trouble as a kid, stealing pizzas from stopped delivery cars. At 18, he was arrested for stealing a Domino’s pizza, subsequently losing his prom date. He wound his way through the L.A. bread scene, worked for Nancy Silverton at Triple Beam, then began commuting to Portland for a pizza project. The result is Pizza Thief (and the Bandit Bar next door). They make 18 inch pies and focus on sour dough and whole grains with high hydration. Like so many of their peers in Portland, they get all of their ingredients from local farms, markets and mills in the Northwest.
What do you do when a vacant space in the same strip mall near your restaurant becomes available, and there’s a pizza oven already there? If you’re the team behind Muss & Turner’s, you turn it into a pizzeria, naturally. In 2005, Muss & Turner’s took on the sandwich, trying to expand and improve upon a well known menu item. Smyrna, Georgia was a pretty sleepy suburb of Atlanta back then. Fast forward a dozen plus years, and now the Atlanta Braves’ stadium is nearby, with a number of new restaurants in the area. The pizza coming MTH in a suburban mall is way better than it probably needs to be. The three guys behind the company - Todd Mussman, Ryan Turner, Chris Hall – have become known for creating the Giving Kitchen, an organization that provides emergency assistance to restaurant workers through financial assistance and community resources.
John Sundstrom has been one of Seattle's most respected chefs for nearly two decades. At Lark, he uses his knowledge and skill to create seasonal dishes, working with local farmers. But a few years ago, he decided to get into pizza, and the learning curve was steep. During the pandemic, business accelerated, and having Southpaw located directly across the street from a college campus has put him in the unique position of creating pizzas that appeal to both students as well as diners accustomed to his more creative approach to cooking.
Jerry Benedetto really missed Chicago when he moved to Portland for his wife's job. But more than anything he missed the thin-and-crispy pizza that is a hallmark of his hometown. That passion and longing led to a Covid-fueled journey through flour, sauce, sausage and giardiniera that has led to a regular pop-up, and eventually, a pizza place. The story behind Jerry's Pizza is certainly inspiring for anyone who has ever dreamed of going into pizza full-time.
Justin Smillie has worked for some of New York City's top chefs, including Jonathan Waxman. He's currently running the kitchen at Il Buco Alimentari in NoHo, where practically everything is made in-house. But the unique part of their pizza program is they par-bake the crusts, which allow for carryout orders to customize and do the finishing bakes at home.
Like a lot of people, Derek Reiff realized if you’re going to make pizza for pick-ups, Detroit fares better than Neapolitan. Thus, a pandemic pivot from wood fired to rectangular pans…and a quirky, sometimes on, sometimes off again pizza project in Seattle, catering to the whims of its owner. Best to check his Instagram (@myfrienddereks) before you commit dinner plans.
After more than four years, the team from Modernist Cuisine outside of Seattle has produced an impressive body of work on all things pizza. Modernist Pizza is three volumes, plus a recipe manual, containing history, science and pizza intel from around the globe here (even if the Chicago chapter left me a little cold). It's the ultimate pizza compendium ever compiled and at more than 1,700 pages, you'll have years of research at your fingertips.
Shardell Dues has worked for some of the best pizza makers in Portland, Oregon, but she's also spent time studying butchery - a skill few of her peers has. The result is Red Sauce Pizza, a fantastic little pizzeria in the charming Beaumont neighborhood.
Scott Rivera has always longed for the Brooklyn pizzas of his childhood, even when he was growing up in New Mexico. His passion got the best of him, as he finally took the plunge in Portland, Oregon, where his wife's job took both of them. Scottie's Pizza Parlor is an homage to the great pizzas of NYC, and not only does he make a terrific slice, he also offers some hard-to-find grandma style slices - a rarity in the Pacific Northwest.
Sarah Minnick knew she had to tackle bread making if she was ever going to improve her pizza crust. The quest for a better dough took her down a long path, and for the past 12 years, Lovely's Fifty Fifty has been one of the most well-regarded pizzerias - not just in the Pacific Northwest, but anywhere in the country. Sarah talks about her inspiration, her process, and how she decided to stop burning wood and made the transition to an electric oven.
Nykolas Sulkiwskyj's grandfather, Louie Tourtrois spent time at Buddy's, the founder of Detroit style pizza. He trained with the original owners there. But once he left, he started up pizza menus at Shield's bar, and eventually settled with his namesake in Hazel Park, about 20 minutes NE of downtown Detroit. The restaurant hasn't changed a bit since it opened in the mid-70s. Today, Nykolas makes each pie as if it's his first: making sure the "red tops" are consistent and the dough proofs long enough. We talked about the family history, and how he maintains consistency in a competitive market.
Marie Guerra Easterby's father, Gus, is widely known as the father of Detroit style pizza. But when he left Buddy's in 1953, to open the Cloverleaf Bar & Restaurant, he brought the recipe with him, and the battle for bragging rights began. Today, Easterby and her brother run the bar and restaurant in Eastpoint, where they still lay claim to the original recipe, even if they sometimes take liberties with the pepperoni placement.
There are several new books about pizza coming out - the Modernist Pizza series, most notably (and we'll have a separate show on that) - but Steve's latest work about Chicago history is also a must-have guide for any visitor. Meanwhile, Dan Richer (Razza, Jersey City, NJ) is about to launch his cookbook on Nov. 9. Steve talks Chicago tavern thin vs. deep-dish vs. stuffed, then he talks with Dan about how far down the rabbit hole he's gone on things like sauce matrices, calipers and cheese options.
Matthew Grogan loved the pizza from Grimaldi's (and later, Juliana's) so much, he quit his job in finance to help Patsy Grimaldi continue his vision. The New York native has seen Grimaldi through good and bad times, and feels the weight of carrying on that vision well into the 21st century. We discuss the complicated history of Grimaldi's and Juliana's, including the special challenges involved in running a coal-fired oven beneath the Brooklyn Bridge.
When Nick Buckland and his partner got around to opening Yard Sale, on the outskirts of London, they were looking to try to improve upon delivery and take-out pizza (this was before Covid-19). Figuring that out has helped them succeed, as they now prepare to open their 8th Yard Sale Pizza. Steve talks to Nick about working with ingredients from nearby Italy, and how that may have shaped Londoner's thoughts about what pizza should be. He'll also talk about his unique take on a British pizza using a beloved ingredient.
Adam Kuban's dad always aspired to have his own pizza place. Maybe that's why the writer wound up becoming New York City's first writer dedicated to covering pizza. Tackling a subject as wide and deep (and occasionally controversial) as NYC pizza is no small feat. Kuban agreed to meet at Scarr's on the Lower East Side for a couple of slices, and to share some of his favorite slices around the city. This is incredibly important intel if you want to consider yourself an authoritative NYC pizza eater.
After a 19 month hiatus, the International Pizza Expo is back, somewhat diminished due to a raging Delta variant, but still, people from all over the country made their way to the desert to talk shop. I roamed the floor for Days 1 and 2 of the Expo, talking to all sorts of stakeholders about what they're working on these days.
For 70 years, Denino's has been one of the most beloved pizzerias on Staten Island. Featured in Pete Davidson's film, "The King of Staten Island", the restaurant is a family affair, and owner Michael Burke practically grew up in it. He shares some of the pizzeria's secrets, and has some great advice for would-be pizzeria owners.
Joe Quercia has worked hard his entire life. He started working at Freddy's Pizza in Cicero in 1968, at the age of 13, and never left. Quercia talks about his Neapolitan heritage, how he learned to speak English and then expand the offerings at his tiny store, while the neighborhood around him changed completely.
Frank Pinello grew up in Brooklyn and Long Island, and aside from hearing it in his voice, you can tell how passionate he is about creating the best slices. His work with chefs like Nate Appleman and the opening team at Roberta's were seminal experiences, but it was when they handed him the reigns to Best Pizza in Williamsburg, that he really came into his own as a pizza maker.
All-Purpose is one of D.C.'s best pizza places, and the pies are a result of owner Mike Friedman's many experiences at restaurants along the Eastern Seaboard. Sourcing only the best flour, tomatoes and cheese, he has elevated the typical New York thin, deck oven baked pizza, by adding hydration and a solid three days of fermentation.
Scott Wiener started out working in the Department of Cultural Affairs in Hoboken, New Jersey, when an impromptu pizza tour for his birthday led to the creation of a full-time business. Today there are 65 pizzerias in the Scott's Pizza Tours universe, with more than a dozen tours offered every week. On top of that, Scott leads demos, speaks to industry leaders and even holds the world record for the most number of pizza boxes. The man lives his brand. Steve talks to him about what he looks for in a proper NYC slice.
Tim Semmler and his wife, Lydia, have been running Tinder Hearth Bakery from their home in rural Maine for the past 13 years. More recently, they've added pizza. Toppings depend on what their local farmer sells them. The flour is from Québéc and the starter is all-natural. If you're headed to Acadia National Forest, it's a must-stop.
Brian Spangler has had a lot of jobs. Some in I.T., some in bread baking. But it's the four year period while working in rural Oregon that laid the foundation for what would become Apizza Scholls in Portland. We met Spangler in the hills of Montana - at The Resort at Paws Up - where he was tasked with recreating his long-fermented dough and baking pies in ovens he wasn't necessarily used to; no matter, he figured it all out and turned out some amazing pies.
There is a lot of discussion in New York about where "Grandma style" pizza came from, but the truth is, this thin Sicilian style of pan pizza has been around for a hundred years. But a former cook from Umberto's came up with the official name while entering a contest while employed at King Umberto, a mile or so away. The rest is, well, a complicated history. Steve sits down with Giovanni Cesarano to talk Grandmas, traditional slices and a mind-bending Roman al Metro that we can't wait to get back and try again.
There are several Umberto's locations on Long Island, but none more famous than the one in New Hyde Park, where generations of pizza lovers have visited over the years. It's there where the pizza cooks began making a thinner Sicilian, one of them dubbing it "Grandma style." Did they really invent it? Listen to Part 1 of our Umberto's saga. We'll also preview the NYC Pizza Festival (Home Edition) coming up April 24th and 25th.
Seaside, Florida is known for its pristine architecture and sandy beaches. "The Emerald Coast" - in Florida's Panhandle - sees a lot of tourists, especially between the towns of Destin and Panama City. But the team behind Bud & Alley's, a 35 year-old restaurant on the water, has also established a quaint pizza bar nearby. They sought help from a couple of Italian experts to create a Neo-Neapolitan pie amidst the ice cream shops and food trucks. Steve spoke with both the owner and the chef this week, about the challenges of creating these delicate, leopard-spotted pizzas, in a climate that can prove to be challenging yearround.
Steve talks with Marc Malnati, the President of Lou Malnati's, Chicago's most prolific deep-dish purveyor. Opened on St. Patrick's Day, 1971, by his late father, they just opened a new store beneath Michigan Avenue and continue to slowly expand in Wisconsin. The company sells nearly six million pizzas a year, and are known as having a style of pizza based on the original source of authentic deep-dish in Chicago.
Tandy Wilson grew up in Nashville, went to culinary school and worked in Northern California, studying Mediterranean cooking, before exploring Italy's cuisine and culture for an immersive education. He returned to his hometown, opening City House, in the Germantown section of Nashville in 2008. His wood-fired pies are unique, mainly due to what Wilson puts on top of them.
Tony Galzin is a proud South Sider from Chicago. His wife hails from Alabama, but the two met while working at mk restaurant in Chicago. Tony worked pastry, Caroline in the front of the house. The two fell hard for each other, as well as the coal fired pies at D'Amato's and Coalfire in West Town, just a few blocks apart. When they moved to Nashville in 2013, they started looking for their own place. By 2016, they had opened Nicky's Coal Fired, a restaurant featuring a large coal-fired oven, where they bake a lot more than just pizzas.
Michael Hanna has worked in the restaurant industry for several years, mostly in Memphis and Nashville. He has tapped into his Sicilian heritage and created a pizza that deserves a lot more recognition than it's getting. He rents a space in the basement of a food hall in East Nashville, selling his St. Vito Focacciaria pizzas out the side door. If you haven't tried it yet, you really should.
Patti Tubbs literally grew up in the pizza business. Her grandfather started Italian Fiesta Pizzeria on the city's far South Side in the 1940s, and the recipe hasn't changed a bit. A young Michelle Obama (nee Robinson) grew up on the pizza, and turned her family onto it while they lived in Hyde Park. Patti talks with Steve about her family's history, then makes him a sausage-giardiniera pie.
Nella Grassano grew up in Naples, and pizza has been in her family for decades. She wound up settling in Chicago (where she met her husband) and has worked in some of the city's finest Neapolitan pizza shops. Her namesake - Nella Pizza e Pasta - has been in Hyde Park for several years now, on the campus of the University of Chicago.
We're taking a long look back at 2020, a year we'd just as soon like to forget. But these four interviews were unforgettable - full of insight, advice and history. We talk with pizza writer Arthur Bovino (@nycbestpizza) about how he goes about covering his beat; John Arena discusses the finer points of Sicilian from Las Vegas; the CEO of Home Run Inn talks about the company's origins and World Pizza Champion Tony Gemignani discusses his competitive streak and an almost obsessive focus on recreating the nation's various styles of pizza all under one roof.
Thom and James Elliot fell hard for Neapolitan pizza, and decided to buy a small van and drive through Italy, discovering and learning all they could about pizza making. The result is "Pizza" a new book about their adventures, which include a few cities in the U.S. They now have 14 locations of their Pizza Pilgrims brand in the U.K., where you can even get pizza making kits for home (if you live in London).
Chefs Nick Krunkkala and Caroline Zeller are the driving force behind Oysterhead Pizza Co., a tiny shop perched above the flowing Damariscotta River, about an hour-and-a-half north of Portland. This vacation town now has a serious pizzeria, where the dough is thoughtfully made and the wood-fired (rotating) deck oven burns a bit lower than your typical Neapolitan joint, producing chewy-crunchy pies. Also, Nick is a whiz with naming his pizzas.
Noah Sandoval has to be the only two-star Michelin chef currently making pizza. His fine dining restaurant - Oriole - was taking a break during the pandemic, so he and his business partners came up with a new take on Sicilian pizza, previously unseen in Chicago. With complete humility, he reached out to an expert in Las Vegas for guidance. The result? Pizza Friendly Pizza in the Ukrainian Village/Humboldt Park neighborhood.
Mike Keon and his business partner, Anthony Allen, founded Otto Pizza in 2009 in Portland, Maine. Over the past decade, they've expanded in New England, due in part to their creative take on toppings - including bacon, mashed potatoes and scallions, among others. Steve spoke with Mike just a few yards from the original store in downtown Portland.
Michael Zaffiro was born into the pizza business. His family has run Zaffiro's for more than 60 years, satisfying a local craving for thin and crispy, square-cut "bar pies" that rule in the Midwest. He shares a few family secrets in this very candid interview.
Steve Lanzalotta created a unique Sicilian-style of pan pizza while working at Micucci Grocery in Portland, Maine, but after a falling-out, left to continue that tradition with partners Emily Kingsbury and Chris Bassett at Slab Sicilian Street Food, located in the old Public Market. You can get one pound slices, four pound half sheets or even 8 pounders (entire sheet pans) that look like bricks, but eat like feathers. The key is hand-mixing and making dough throughout the day (plus high hydration).
Thomas McNaughton has had success with Flour + Water in San Francisco for more than a decade, but he wanted something more substantial than the delicate Neapolitan pies from that wood-burning oven. His latest - Flour + Water Pizzeria, in the Mission - emphasizes long fermentation, wet dough and electric ovens, to produce some glorious pizzas with exceptional crumb.
For the past 15 years, Jonathan Goldsmith has led the charge for authentic Neapolitan pizzas in Chicago at Spacca Napoli, a result of spending several years living and working in Italy alongside master pizzaiolos. But he got a late start in life, after spending many years in academia and clinical social work. He continues to train, educate and nurture others in the industry, while also furthering his own knowledge of the craft. These days, he's wrestling with the idea of putting in an electric oven to accommodate the large number of to-go orders for a style of pizza that traditionally does not travel well.
Neal DeNardi spent years working for various heavy hitters in San Francisco's pizza world: Pizza Hacker, Tony Gemignani, Del Popolo among them. His hard work led to the birth of his own place - Long Bridge Pizza - located in the Dogpatch neighborhood just south of downtown. If you miss the large, semi-greasy NYC-style slices from back East, you'll want to spend some time eating your way through his menu, which takes a more artisan approach to the standard slice.
When friends Brad Shorten, Cecily Rodriguez and Billy Federighi started @eatfreepizza on Instagram, they were known for giving away their handmade, artisan pies to their fans. Fast forward two years, and they're now making a legit East Coast Sicilian with a crispy undercarriage and a focaccia-like interior, from their take out window in Bridgeport. Pizza Fried Chicken Ice Cream may sell just three things, but pizza is their true passion.
This week, Steve takes the ferry from San Francisco's Ferry Building Market, for a peaceful 30-minute ride up to Larkspur, where Chef Mark Hopper has been working tirelessly on a pair of outstanding pizzas: one emerging from a wood-fired oven, the other a near perfect Sicilian square with lots of chew and crunch. Farmshop Marin is probably better known for their wood-fired pies, but you'd be a fool not to try the squares.
Noam Grossman grew up in New Jersey, eating cheese pizzas on a weekly basis. His love of pizza grew into not one, but two successful operations: Upside, in Midtown Manhattan, and now Norm's in downtown Brooklyn. In both cases, he is focused on high quality ingredients sourced from the best artisans. At Norm's, he's offering a clear alternative to the subpar $ .99 joints that dot the landscape.
Steve takes a slightly different approach to the term "pizza" this week, as he checks out the za'atar manoushe from Z & Z in Washington D.C., then a classic Turkish lahmacun from Turkitch in Chicago. Both are essentially flatbreads with savory toppings. But are they pizza?
When you're part of the Manresa group - a widely celebrated 3-star Michelin rated restaurant in Los Gatos, California - you focus on ingredients and technique. Avery Ruzicka has worked with Chef David Kinch for almost a decade, but over the past few years she's been focused on Manresa Bread, with three locations in Silicon Valley. At her Campbell, CA location, she does a "Pizza Night" on Wednesdays, selling an artisan Sicilian pan pizza; while it's on hiatus during the pandemic, she's hoping to bring it back at the end of June or in July. Steve Dolinsky spoke with her just before the lockdown.
Steve sits down with one half of the team behind Sofia Pizza Shoppe, on the East Side of Manhattan, just North of the United Nations. Tommy DeGrezia is the force behind the "Doughdici," as well as a number of creative slices at this tiny shop on 1st Avenue. Known for their ideal NYC triangles and Grandma-style squares, the shop also gets creative with vodka sauce and a spinach-artichoke flavor that initially went viral (in a good way).
Danny Stoller and Mark Shechter finally opened Square Pie Guys after many months of doing pop-ups in San Francisco. Their pizzeria reflects their love of Detroit-style, but they definitely take some liberties, not adhering to all of the Detroit-style rules (no Wisconsin brick cheese, for example). The result is a unique pan pie that is both delicious to look at as well as eat.
Rosanna D'Amato is the 3rd generation of her family to run the namesake bakery on the Near West Side of Chicago. Known for their coal-fired oven, D'Amato's produces some of the best sandwich bread and focaccia, but they also produce a Sicilian pan "bakery" pizza that is one-of-a-kind. Steve talks to Rosanna about how she grew up in the business and what makes their pizza so special.
Dave Acocella has spent a lifetime in the restaurant business, but waited until he was 50 before opening his own pizza place. Philomena's offers both traditional wedges and Roman-style squares, airy and light, with incredible crunch and chew. Despite most of his training on wood-fired ovens, his dexterity with ovens, and his embrace of the remarkable Roman square shows a keen eye and advanced palate.
Tony Gemignani has won multiple championships in Italy for his pizza making prowess, but he's also authored books on the subject, teaches would-be pizzaiolos how to make various styles (and certifies them) all while overseeing a pair of San Francisco pizzerias that produce upwards of 17 styles of regional pizza between them. Steve spent an afternoon talking (and eating) pizza with the man many refer to as the ultimate Pizza Ambassador.
Steve talks with Dan Costello, the President and CEO of Home Run Inn, one of the nation's largest frozen pizza companies (in 40 states), but also the great grandson of the founders of this Chicago-based pizzeria. They started on the city's Southwest Side, offering square-cut, thin pizzas, which have come to define Chicago pizza (among locals). They have no idea how a deep-dish is made.
Steve talks with Massimo Laviglia, proud son of Tuscany, who only moved to the U.S. in 2012. His story of hard work, perserverence and most important of all, his courage to ask for help from some of New York's top pizza makers, ended up saving his fledgling business from going under. Laviglia is now widely considered one of the top pizza makers in New York City, and L'industrie is a must-stop if you're ever in Brooklyn.
Derrick Tung gave up med school, then a promising career in healthcare administration to pursue his love of pizza. He reached out Paulie Gee in Greenpoint, Brooklyn, seeking his advice, and it led to a partnership in Chicago. Tung has expanded beyond the store's usual wood-fired pies to include a remarkable Detroit-style that's winning awards.
Steve sits down with Paulie Gee, of the namesake wood-fired pizzeria in Greenpoint, Brooklyn, at his new slice joint just a couple of blocks away. Paulie talks about ditching his corporate I.T. job for a life in pizza. He has become a mentor to many young pizza makers in the country, and has even sprouted additional locations in three other cities.
Steve sits down with John Arena, a native New Yorker who moved to Las Vegas 40 years ago to make his name in pizza. What he learned along the way was invaluable, and he's taught a generation of young pizza makers how to navigate the business. As the owner of Metro Pizza, he's also overseen the growth of the industry in his adopted hometown, now host to the annual International Pizza Expo and the Las Vegas Pizza Festival.
Steve talks with Arthur Bovino, the guy behind thepizzacowboy.com, @nycbestpizza and the driving force behind The Daily Meal's annual "101 Best Pizzas in America" list. They met at Leo in Williamsburg, to try some Roman pizza, and talk about the business of covering the pizza world in New York City.
Steve talks with Vincent Rotolo, the driving force behind Good Pie in Las Vegas. Rotolo is a native New Yorker (grew up working at John's on Bleeker) who brought his love and passion for pizza to the desert. He is part of a growing roster of pizza makers there, raising the level of pizza quality in the city that hosts the International Pizza Summit every Spring.
Leo Spizzirri is the driving force behind only the second North American branch of the famed Scuola Italiana Pizzaioli. This pizza school has a location in San Francisco, but Spizzirri now has an accredited program about 45 min. west of downtown Chicago. He talks about how he got into the business, fell in love with Italy's regional styles, then convinced Italian authorities to let him open a school in the Midwest. Some classes are for die-hards who want to open their own pizzerias, while others are just hobbyists who want to improve their pizza-making skills.
Steve talks with Chicago native Jared Leonard about his latest pizzeria - Grabowski's - located in the RiNo District of Denver. Leonard is bringing the pizza of his childhood (that means tavern-style, thin, square-cut pizzas) to his newly adopted home.
Steve talks with Adam Sweet, an Arkansas native who ended up in Indiana. His first King Dough started on the campus of Indiana University, but he more recently opened in Indianapolis, directly across the street from Smoking Goose Meatery, a world-class producer of cured and smoked meats, and the collaboration has been a delicious one.
Steve travels to New Haven, CT, home to Yale, as well as some of the most revered pizza joints in the country. He meets up with Colin Caplan, the author of "Pizza in New Haven" and Owner of Taste of New Haven Tours. Steve (and a few lucky contest winners) learn about the city's unique pizza history, then taste the legendary pies at Frank Pepe's, Sally's and Modern.
Steve talks with Marc Malnati, the President of Lou Malnati's, Chicago's most prolific deep-dish purveyor. Opened in 1971 by his late father, they just opened a new store beneath Michigan Avenue this month; the company sells nearly six million pizzas a year, and are known as one of the original sources of authentic deep-dish in Chicago.
Steve talks with Steven Dilley, the owner of Bufalina and Bufalina Due in Austin, Texas. Dilley's parents are Italian and Taiwanese, so he has a unique perspective on food; his experience in the financial world in New York City, combined with some traveling and research in Naples, led to Bufalina in 2013 in East Austin. He talks about the city's pizza scene, and why he didn't bother trying to attain VPN certification for his thin and blistered pies.
Steve talks to Chris Bianco - of Pizzeria Bianco in Phoenix - about his new collaboration with Tartine Bakery's Chad Robertson and Elizabeth Prueitt, in The Manufactory in downtown L.A. He's focusing on flatbreads, rather than the wood-fired pies he's known for, but the scale of the operation is mighty impressive.
This week, Steve talks to Chef Michael Schwartz, the owner of Michael's Genuine Food & Drink in Miami and Cleveland, and Genuine Pizza in Miami. Schwartz's new book, "Genuine Pizza: Better Pizza at Home" just came out, and Schwartz was in Chicago recently, doing a takeover of one of the ovens at Pacific Standard Time. He talks about some of the must-have tools for home pizza-making, but also discusses how he grew up on bad pizza in Philadelphia, then eventually opened Harry's Pizza in the Design District of Miami.
Steve talks with Robert Garvey, an engineer-turned-playwright-turned-pizzaiolo who grew up in Queens with a slice-a-day habit. Moving to Chicago in 1993, he started tinkering with dough recipes and spent the next decade or so, tweaking his recipe until he got it right. He recently re-opened his namesake pizzeria in Chicago after being closed for nearly a year, and his memorable pies are better than ever.
Steve talks with Justin De Leon, a former professional photographer who has married his love of photography with his passion for pizza at Apollonia's in L.A. Having grown up with heavy pizza in Monterey Park, he has spent years developing his Sicilian squares which have enormous interior crumb and impossibly high cheese fricos around the lacy edges. The fact he knows how to photograph them makes them even more irresistible on Instagram.
Steve talks to Anthony Falco, one of the founders of Roberta's, in Bushwick, Brooklyn, who, over the past three years, has become a pizzaiolo for-hire. He's set up new pizzerias all over the world, and continues to create new, artisan options for some pizza shops in the U.S. as well. They met at Upside Pizza, in Midtown Manhattan, one of Falco's recent clients.
Dan Richer is serious about his pizza. Time, temp and a laser-focused intensity about the quality of his ingredients all combine to make his artisan pies something to behold (and devour). Razza not only has a 3-star review from the New York Times, but was just named the best pizza in North America by the 50 Top Pizza group, based in Italy. Steve talks to Richer about his method and approach to making a stellar pie.
Steve talks with Frank Tuttolomondo, owner of Mama's Too! on the Upper West Side of Manhattan. Frank's family has owned Mama's Pizza nearby for nearly 60 years, but his approach to pizza-making is far different. He experiments with hydration levels, baking technique and fermentation, but also offers a more artisan approach to Sicilian and classic wedges (baked in gas ovens).
Steve sits down with Rich Aronson, the 2nd generation owner of My Pi, which his father Larry opened in 1971. Rich talks about how they were the first deep-dish outside of Illinois, then shrank back to just one location. His father's meticulousness - he was a 3rd generation baker - led to all sorts of tweaks on the original Uno's recipe. To this day, it's one of Steve's favorite versions of deep-dish, and it will be yours too, once you try it.
Steve sits down with Mark Iacono, owner/founder of Lucali, one of New York City's most revered pizza joints. Iacono designed his Carroll Gardens restaurant to resemble a pizzeria from the 1940s. Everything may look old, but it's all new. His handmade, wood-fired oven is the star attraction - more curved than domed - and some of Brooklyn's most majestic pies emerge from its stone deck.
Steve talks with Gina Pianetto, the 3rd generation owner of Pat's Pizza in Chicago. The pizza the late film critic Roger Ebert dubbed his favorite, is still going strong, some 70 years after Nicholas "Pat" Pianetto started the joint in 1950. Known for their cracker-thin crust, which takes about six days to make, Steve argues this is the style of pizza most Chicagoans actually eat, rather than deep-dish.
Steve travels to Montreal in the middle of winter, to taste one of the city's best pies at Pizzeria Gema. Chef/Owner Michele Forgione and his Pizzaiolo are making a true Canadian artisan style pizza, by making all of the toppings themselves and letting their dough ferment for at least 48 hours.
Steve talks with Ann Kim, the owner of Pizzeria Lola, Hello Pizza and Young Joni, all in Minneapolis. Kim attended Columbia University in New York, studied law for a year, wanted to become an actress, but realized her true calling was in the culinary world. She opened Lola eight years ago, focusing on wood-burning, artisan pies. More recently, she’s added Hello Pizza, an homage to NYC-style slices – both wedges and Sicilian squares.
On this week’s show, Steve talks with Franco Stanzione, owner of Stanzione 87 in Miami. Franco takes an Old World approach to Neapolitan pizza-making, and goes a few steps further, making his own mozzarella in-house, and fermenting his dough up to 72 hours. The results are instantly noticeable. The only problem: a giant mega-mall nearby that practically obliterates the tiny shop on street level, and a general lack of understanding by locals, as to what true Neapolitan should look and taste like.
Steve talks with Matthew Hyland, the chef/owner of three unique pizzerias in New York: Pizza Loves Emily, Emmy Squared and Violet. Hyland met his wife in college, in Rhode Island, and their mutual love of pizza has turned into a successful series of businesses. At Pizza Loves Emily in Brooklyn, they focus on wood-fired artisan pies; at Emmy Squared (with locations in Brooklyn, Manhattan and Nashville) it’s all about Detroit-inspired square pies with caramelized cheese borders. Their latest project – Violet – honors the Providence, RI tradition of grilled pizza, which started at Al Forno. We’ll talk about the various doughs they’re using, the differing ovens and cook times, and of course the wide range of toppings employed.
Steve travels to Seattle to talk with former Chicagoan Dave Lichterman, a computer science engineer who worked for Amazon for about eight years before deciding to pursue his lifelong passion of pizza making. Dave has two businesses – Windy City Pie and Breezy Town Pizza – where he and his staff experiment with homemade giardiniera, cooked pineapple, sausage ground in-house and candied bacon as toppings, while also using all-natural sourdough starters and other artisan techniques to create their deep, pan pizzas.
In this episode, Steve talks with Wes Pikula, the VP of Operations at Buddy’s, a Detroit institution, where “Detroit style” pizza was born in 1946. Pikula has been with the company since 1975; it has spawned dozens of imitators across the country. The rectangular pie - made in a deep pan the original cooks found via the local auto industry – picks up flavor from not only the well-seasoned pans, but also from the higher fat brick cheese and assertive pepperoni that are embedded into the dough the day before baking. Just two racing stripes of tomato sauce are draped across the top right before baking in a conveyor oven. The result is a softer middle with a crispy, cheesy edge and undercarriage.
Steve talks with Justin Bazdarich, the owner/founder of Speedy Romeo, with two locations in New York City. Justin is originally from Kansas, but his father was from St. Louis, so all of those visits to Imo’s over the years led to an appreciation of Provel cheese. Even though he has worked for chefs like Jean-Georges Vongerichten, opening several of his restaurants all over the world, he always loved pizza. When he opened his own place about seven years ago, he committed to making an artisan pie, which meant at least two days of fermentation, making all of his mozzarella in-house, grinding his sausage and pickling his chilies. His wood-burning oven creates Instagram-worthy corniciones with textbook leopard-spotting, but he hasn’t forgotten his Midwestern roots. One of his best-loved pies is a “St. Louie” with Provel, Italian sausage, pepperoni and pickled chilies.
Steve stays home in Chicago to talk to the man behind his favorite deep-dish pizza: Rich Labriola. Labriola grew up in the South suburbs, and his father, Danny, ran a pizza joint (thin, tavern-style only). Rich got into the baking business and in 1993, opened Labriola Baking, an artisan commercial bakery, which at one point sold bread to many of Chicago’s best restaurants. He sold the business in 2008, launching a suburban restaurant called Labriola Café and Neapolitan Pizza. But the draw of the city (and deep-dish) was too much, and so in 2013, he launched Labriola Ristorante just off of Michigan Avenue – the heart of the tourist zone. Labriola re-engineered the traditional Chicago deep-dish in a number of ways – adding more corn flour and oil, using imported Pecorino Romano and adding complexity to both his bulk sausage and sauce, by integrating Calabrian chiles to the sausage while using three types of tomatoes, including a mirepoix, for the sauce. His caramelized cheese “frico” or crust, along the perimeter, is reminiscent of Pequod’s and Burt’s – two beloved brands from the Chicago suburbs.
Steve travels to Los Angeles to talk with Daniele Uditi, the Pizzaiolo at Pizzana, in Brentwood. Uditi comes from a small, Italian village, where he first learned how to bake with his “auntie” but later, came to America and worked at various restaurants, before settling on his own style of pizza – a kind of artisan-meets-Neapolitan, with a slightly lower oven temperature than traditional Neapolitans, that results in a slightly longer baking time. A chance meeting with actor Chris O’Donnell (and a series of pizza parties at his home for friends and colleagues) led to a partnership with both the O’Donnells and the owners of Sprinkles Cupcakes. They eventually opened Pizzana in Brentwood. The late L.A. Times critic Jonathan Gold was a huge fan of the pizzas, and a glowing review led to even more success. The partners have also opened a second location on Robertson Boulevard in West Hollywood.
Coming January 4th, a new podcast from Steve Dolinsky, the author of "Pizza City USA" and Co-founder of Pizza City USA Tours. Shows run every other Friday, and will feature some of the greatest pizza makers in the world.