Beyond Consultation

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First up, a big announcement
Today's episode is significant as it marks the last interview the Beyond Consultation Podcast will be releasing for the foreseeable future. That's big! But why end a good thing... find out more in the episode.
Introducing Jade Tang-Taylor
This kōrero with Jade asks how do we care for ourselves when we care for our work?
Working to change systems and organisations is tough work. It's never complete. Your efforts often pass by with no thanks. (And often you bear the brunt of people's negative emotions.)
We also talk about how our culture and heritage can profoundly affect our work. Our history shapes our future - whether we're aware of it or not.
In today's episode you'll learn:

How to care for yourself even when that feels like the last thing on your list
How to embrace the legacy of your cultural heritage within your mahi
The effects of AI in the workplace and how you can maintain your humanity in the midst of massive technological and social change.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

⁠The Long Time Academy Podcast. ⁠
⁠Check out Academy X here. ⁠
⁠Connect with Jade Tang-Taylor on Linkedin here. ⁠

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Introducing Judy Zhang

How can we put relationships, learning and a systems-view at the centre of our work?

This question is what guides my kōrero with Construction Accord Director, Judy Zhang.

The Construction Accord is a shared commitment between government and industry to transform the construction sector. In 2022, the government set out a three-year action plan to tackle the sector's systemic challenges and build resilience across the industry.

With the temptation to sweep failures under the rug when working in the public sector, Judy shares how transformative it can be when we put learning at the heart of our work.

In today's episode you'll learn:

What happens when you put relationships and learning at the center of systems change.
Why evaluation needs to be everybody's job (not just the data people's)
How to shift from KPIs (focused on proving your progress) to meaningful measures (focused on learning).

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Learn more about the Construction Accord mahi here.
Get more insight with the Construction Sector Accord evaluation report here.
Expand your Behavioral insights understanding in policy here.
Find the Construction Sector Accord Transformation Plan here.
Read about the Theory of Change here.

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Introducing Natalia Sexton

How can a philanthropic funder use its power, influence and resources to enable systems change?

Today's kōrero with is with Natalia Sexton, General Manager of Weave (the new name for the Working Together More Fund).

Natalia has advised and held leadership positions with Iwi, Government, NGO’s and Philanthropy. You can hear her passion coming through for centering whānau and community voices in transformational change.

Like me, Natalia is a recovering law graduate - but don't hold that against us. 😉

In today's episode you'll learn:

How to shift power dynamics to create positive systems change.
Why it's essential that our whakapapa is at the core of everything we do.
How to weave equity into everything your organisation does.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

⁠WEAVE NZ.⁠
⁠Connect with Natalia on Linkedin. ⁠

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Introducing Tracey Shepherd

August's episode is another gem brought to you through my Inspiring Communities connection (big shout out to the wonderful people that work there).

Tracey Shepherd, REAP Aotearoa National Director, on the committee for Cloudkids Educare and coordinator of Fab Feathy, a community-led development initiative in Pae Tū Mokai Featherston.

Our kōrero today centres around the incredible force of coming together as a community, supporting each other, and just bloody getting on with it.

In such a time of disconnect, it's more important than ever to reconnect.

In today's episode you'll learn:

The power of a community leading and doing it for themselves.
Invest in the outcomes you want, but adjust your thinking in how to achieve those outcomes.
The work that REAP Aotearoa and Fab Feathy are doing in leading community development.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Connect with Tracey Shepherd on Linkedin.
REAP Aotearoa.
Fab Feathy.

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Introducing Vanessa Sidney-Richmond and Sarah Morris

Today's episode was sparked by the recent release of a report called Make the Move: Shifting How the Public Sector Works with Communities.

I don't know about you, but that's a topic I can get in behind.

In today's episode, I talk to Vanessa Sidney-Richmond, Pou Whirinaki of Te Tihi o Ruahine Whānau Ora Alliance, and Sarah Morris, Freelance Social and Systems Change Consultant and author of the report.

In our kōrero, the overarching theme is around the question; how can we shift the way the public sector works with communities? How can we broaden government's role so it's about creating the conditions for change, alongside creating solutions themselves?

We cover a few key topics in today's episode, and that's what I love about these interviews! A complete collaboration and sharing of ideas and opinions.

So please, enjoy this impactful kōrero with Vanessa and Sarah, and make sure to check out the report. Don't just listen to this episode... share it with your team and use the report to inspire some deep learning, reflection and action.

In today's episode you'll learn:

What 'locally led, regionally supported and nationally enabled' really means and how this approach can positively impact communities.
What do we mean by 'creating the conditions for change'? (And why is that shift so important?)
How can we rebalance the relationship between government and community, bit by bit?

Resources mentioned in this episode:

The Make the Move Report ⁠⁠
Connect with Sarah on Linkedin.
Learn more about Vanessa's organisation Te Tihi

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Introducing Desna Whaanga-Schollum

Aotearoa New Zealand is founded on a bicultural foundation... Which then begs many questions, including: "How do we weave together Western ideas and Mātauranga Māori?"

As a designer and communicator connected to her Māori whakapapa, Desna Whaanga-Schollum is well-placed to answer the qustion. She works closely with tangata whenua to bring forward their stories to reinvigorate Mātauranga Māori for the benefit of all New Zealanders.

We hear about what deep listening looks like when serving Māori communities, and why it's so important to listen before bringing solutions. After all; we have to know what the roots of the problem are first!

In today's episode you'll learn:

What is deep listening and how can we bring it into everything we do in life and work?
The risks of using Māori words outside their original context (and other options available to respectfully use te reo Māori)
How Pakeha can take a sensitive and empathetic approach to Māori peers in the workplace.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

The Learning Lab
Being Tangata Tiriti.
Ngā Aho - Māori Design Professionals.
Connect with Desna on Linkedin.
Hui-te-ana-nui: Understanding kaitiakitanga in our marine environment.

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Introducing Mele Wendt

Most of us have heard about IQ (your intellectual quotient), and some of us have heard about EQ (your emotional quotient). But what do you know about your CQ - your cultural quotient?

In a world of diverse ethnicities and cultures, it's time to grow your cultural awareness.

In today's episode, Mele Wendt graciously gives us some tough love and unpacks some Pasifika concepts of governance and collaboration. Her whakapapa roots back to Samoa, and so her perspective comes through a Samoan lens.

Mele shares with us how the Samoan governance system is so different, yet so similar to Western governance systems.

And she challenges us to stop lumping "the Pasifika community" together as one, and instead get out there and learn about the rich cultural diversity and needs of Pasifika communities before we engage.

In today's episode you'll learn:

What is CQ and how can you grow yours
How Samoan governance is similar to Western governance (and how you can embrace that when working with Pasifika peoples)
Some hard-hitting practical tips for engaging with Pasifika communities.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

The Learning Lab
Connect with Mele on Linkedin.

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Introducing Dr Emily Beausoleil

In today’s episode, Dr Emily Beausoleil asks a fundamental question:

How do we make it easier for people in advantaged positions to listen effectively?

Because let's face it. In today's society, listening is the poor cousin talking. We face immense challenges in building the capacity for better listening in our institutions, our online spaces and our everyday interactions.

Emily's work explores the conditions, challenges, and possibilities of democratic engagement in diverse societies.

Born and raised in Canada, Emily is aware of her own privilege and curious about her place in Aotearoa New Zealand.

In this epsiode, we explore listening in Aotearoa's context - how can we learn from, and listen to, our tangata, our people, when engaging with different organisations? How can we make sure we have an awareness of their history, culture, structure and location - all in hopes of deeper understanding?

In today's episode you'll learn:

What research tells us about how to enable (or disable) good listening
How can we listen more intentionally, in hopes of gaining a deeper understanding.
How to navigate your own privilege (or challenge) in different contexts.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

The Learning Lab
Connect with Dr Emily Beausoleil through Victoria University
Connect with Dr Emily Beausoleil on Linkedin
Tauiwi Tautoko - an online programme to grow your capacity to change the narrative when encountering racism or hatred online

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Introducing Ivan Tava

“It’s about the process, not just the outcome. It's the journey, not just the goal.”

Ivan Tava grew up in the South Island - Te Waipounamu - and that experience has really shaped him.

He continues to serve the people of Te Waipounamu today. In the daytime, he leads the development of PWC's consulting team. At night and during the weekends, he puts his energy into serving his people as part of the Pacific Data Sovereignty Network.

In today’s episode, he takes us on a journey through his cultural roots to help you understand how to better serve Māori and Pasifika whānau.

Ivan has some hard-hitting messages about how you treat your brown staff within your own organisation. If you cannot connect with your brown staff, you will not connect with their communities.

In today's episode you'll learn:

How to connect with your Māori and Pasifika staff (and how not to treat them!)
What to do with your privileged position to support the aspirations of your Māori and Pasifika staff
How to honour the sovereignty of data about Pacific peoples.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Connect with Ivan on Linkedin.

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Introducing Kelsey Taimaiporea

Three Waters. We've all heard about it, most of us have seen a "stop Three Waters" billboard somewhere in Aotearoa. But what does it really involve? How does the Three Waters initiative impact Māori?

Today we talk to Kelsey Taimaiporea, Three Waters Engagement Lead at New Plymouth District Council. A large part of Kelsey's role is to engage meaningfully with Iwi to navigate tapu (sacred) sites and the significant impact of these changes.

Engaging Māori communities means visiting the marae, listening to their stories and drinking a thousand cups of tea to truly understand the tangata whenua that are being impacted.

In today's episode you'll learn:

Three Waters - we've all heard about it but what is it?
How Three Waters impacts Iwi in Aotearoa
The significance of engaging meaningfully with those communities most impacted by these changes

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Three Waters NPDC.
Connect with Kelsey on Linkedin.

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Introducing Mike Reid

Today is our fourth of our series of Throwback episodes, and this one takes us way back to Ep 7!
The perfect bite-sized episode for easy listening - Mike Reid discusses the unique diversity emerging in local government now, and how there is so much space to enable even more community-led decisions and consultations.

Mike Reid leads an incredibly powerful project with Local Government NZ, the Localism Project. Reinvigorating local democracy is at the heart of the Localism Project, by supporting local councils and communities to make decisions that affect them.

In today’s episode you’ll learn about:* The positive changes in council diversity over the last few decades (which may surprise you). * How important it is to use the right language when consulting with communities and councils. * Why it's important to allow space for more community-led decisions and consultations.

Resources mentioned on the show* Localism NZ website * Full Episode 7 with Mike Reid.

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Introducing Ayla Hoeta
Ayla Hoeta is a kaiāwhina - a Lecturer - from Waipapa Taumata Rau, the University of Auckland. Ayla is a māmā of two teenage sons, and comes her whākapapa roots are connected to the South of Tāmaki Makaurau.

Carrying a deep understanding of racial segregation, poverty and the inequality rooted in Aotearoa, Ayla has sought to heal the generational wound ingrained into our tangata whenua - our people - through connecting to her identity and whākapapa, to better empathise and create change for others.

Through this healing, Ayla has developed a framework called Hautū Waka; a navigational framework rooted in mātauranga Māori that can be used as a tool to help navigate complexity.

Part of this framework process is around switching our thinking from human centred design to whānau and whakapapa centred design; rooting these decisions in mātauranga Māori.

Also in today's episode, we dive deep into what it means to be a good Treaty partner and the true effects of subtle racism in the workplace.

In today's episode you'll learn:

What it means to be a good Treaty partner
What we do when we encounter racism and what breaking generational trauma means for tangata whenua
The deeper meaning behind the word whānau
Hautū Waka - where did it come from? How can you use it?

Resources mentioned in this episode:

The Hautū Waka framework
The Southern Initiative from Auckland Council.
Upsouth innovative youth engagement programme.

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Introducing Matthew Crozier

Today's episode is our third in our series of Throwbacks - this time we relive our conversation with Matthew Crozier from Ep 10, looking at how building online digital engagement spills over, aiding to level up your organisations community engagement.

Matthew is co-founder of Bang the Table, connecting millions of people with hundreds of organisations globally.

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The hidden influence of collective trauma

Permacrisis has been named the 'word of the year for 2022' by Collins Dictionary.

Are your surprised? It's been a time of crisis after crisis, each one piling in after the last.

Floods. Mass shootings. Earthquakes. Political upheavals. Pandemics. Cost of living pressures.

These events show up in our lives and create pain - so-called 'collective trauma'.

If we're lucky, the pain is short-lived and we move on.

But often the trauma lives on in us. Unprocessed and unresolved. It continues to influence us as individuals and as a society long after the news cycle has moved on.

Introducing Louise Marra

On today’s podcast, we dive into the topic of collective trauma with guest Louise Marra.

If you're skeptical about the relevance of trauma to your work, that's normal.

But Louise encourages us to create space for healing our collective trauma no matter what work you're involved in. And she shares some simple tips for giving this a go in a way that won't make people run for the hills.

If deeper and more meaningful work through harnessing the hidden power of healing our collective trauma lights your fire, buckle in for this kōrero with Louise. The opportunities for healing are all around us.

Content warning - we talk about death in this episode

This episode includes a discussion about death. We put an optimistic and empowering lens on its role in our work lives. But if that's not something you feel like jumping into today, this might not be the episode for you.

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Introducing Holly Bennett

Today we cast our thoughts back to Ep 17 with Holly Bennett, all about the unexpected path into political lobbying.

Particularly, we hear Holly's answers to these questions;

"What is lobbying?"
"How do you get started in lobbying?"

Advocacy in government is essential, and Holly shares some wonderful insights on why she chose to go against the grain and how you can too.

In today’s episode you’ll learn* The truth about lobbying… is it really the dark art and dirty politics it’s made out to be? * What it takes to be a professional lobbyist * How a beginner can get started with lobbying to those in power and government

Resources mentioned in this episode* Holly’s consulting firm Awhi. * Engage - your place to get trained in government relations and lobbying www.engage.org.nz

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Introducing Aimee Gasparetto and Tammy Mudge

The future work-scape is collaborative, sustainable, humanitarian, and local. Are you ready to participate in this new economy?

For Every One, Every Day - an organisation in Halifax, Canada - the participatory cities approach feels like second nature. Nurturing community, particularly in respect of Halifax's prominent Indigenous people, is what Aimee and Tammy strive for in their work every day.

"What if you could build a system of participation that could extend across cities and connect neighbourhoods?" This question fuels our discussion, which dives deeper into the practicality of participation driven communities.

In Ep 55 we discussed the participatory cities approach and how it has the potential to positively impact communities.

Today, in Ep 57, we cast our mind back to participatory cities, to hear about this approach in a practical, everyday senseand what it really looks like when introduced to Indigenous communities.

Again, Hamish Lindop also joins us to ask some curious questions and share his thoughts.

In today’s episode you’ll learn:

What the participatory cities approach looks like in action.
The practicality of participation driven communities.
How to customise the participatory cities approach to individual community needs.
How you can get started with this approach in your community.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

Ep 55 - How can you enable a participatory city? With Tessy Britton
The Every One, Every Day organisation in Halifax.
2022 Every One, Every Day Progress Report.

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Introducing Israel Hawkins Ngati Kahungunu and Ngati TuwharetoaWelcome to our very first 'Throwback' episode! We've looked back at our stats to find some golden episodes that seemed to have gone under the radar.

In this episode, you'll hear from Israel Hawkins reflecting on how to take a kaupapa-Māori approach to collective impact. If you're intrigued by collective impact, but also hesitant about copying and pasting a North American approach in this country, you will love this throwback.

You can also hear the full conversation with Israel in episode 19 here.

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Introducing Tessy Britton Climate change, political upheaval, inequality, global pandemics, the list goes on... How do we come together as people, as humanity, to find ways through this man-made maze?

A participatory city is where citizens play a key role to create the change they wish to see - rather than suggesting ideas for someone else to potentially create that change.

In today's episode - part one of two - we'll be talking with Tessy Britton, who is the key driver behind this participatory cities approach in the UK.

Plus you'll hear from Hamish Lindop - a New Zealander inspired to adopt the Participatory Cities approach in his work with Auckland Council.

In today’s episode you’ll learn: * What a participatory cities approach looks like and how it has the potential to impact communities * Why the Participatory Cities team describe the approach as "a platform" * The positives outcomes from intentionally participating in your own communities and neighbourhoods and what that can look like * How we can learn from this approach in the UK and transform it to work within our own backyard.

Resources mentioned in this episode:

More information on Tessy Britton's Participatory City Foundation in the UK
An article about the work Hamish Lindop is doing to bring the Participatory Cities approach to Aotearoa
Connect with Hamish Lindop and Tessy Britton over on their LinkedIn accounts

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Introducing Jon Tamihere-Kemeys

In today's Bonus Episode 54, we continue our discussion with Jon Tamihere-Kemeys on all things transformation from an a te ao Māori point of view.

Navigating transformation through the choppy waters of conflict, resolution and uncertainty, JT asks "if everyone is paddling, but the waves are pushing you left and right, who's holding the waka straight?"

Leading navigation is no easy task which is why there is insurmountable value in external guidance when riding the waves of transformation within organisation.

If you're interested in hearing more about the conversation we started with Jon Tamihere-Kemeys in Episode 51, this bonus episode is just what you need.

In today’s episode you’ll learn:

Navigating transformation through the lens of a te ao Māori
The value of independent partners to guide in times of change and growth
The importance of keeping mana atuatanga at the heart of all we do

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Introducing Lil Anderson If you spend any time researching those that are playing a role between Māori and the Crown, then you’ll soon come across an organisation called Te Arawhiti - the Office for Māori Crown Relations.

Translated, ‘Te Arawhiti’ means ‘the bridge’, and the organisation was established in 2018 by Cabinet to work towards true Treaty partnership.

Our guest today, Lil Anderson, is the Chief Executive of this amazing organisation and she shares her unique view and approach to building true partnership between Māori and the Crown.

Having been thrown into the deep end by Dame Whina Cooper when she was just seven years old, Lil has carried the same purpose and spirit with her through all her years of public service - to speak up and be bolder.

If you’d love to feel more empowered in your place as either Māori or Pākehā, and feel more equipped to ‘cross the bridge’ and find a way to work in true partnership, this episode is essential listening.

In today’s episode you’ll learn: * How both Māori and Pākehā should be crossing the bridge in order to grow in true partnership. * The importance of listening - how the first move shouldn’t be to research data, but to talk to people. * What does good partnership look like? What are the feautures of it and how do you achieve it?

Resources mentioned in this episode * Lil Anderson’s LinkedIn profile * Te Arawhiti website * Te Haeata – settlement commitments portal * Dame Whina Cooper biography * Aatea Solutions website * Beyond Sticky Notes, by Kelly-Ann McKercher

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Introducing Anjum Rahman How can we create a country where everybody feels like they belong?

It's a powerful question and not one that can be answered in a simple sentence, but it’s the very question that’s at the heart of today's episode.

Anjum Rahman is the founder and project co-lead of the Inclusive Aotearoa Collective Tāhono. She started up this amazing organisation following the Christchurch mosque attacks, and here we delve deeper into that origin story.

We also talk about Inclusive Aotearoa’s approach to enabling change, called the constellations approach, and how you can host an effective conversation about something that’s deeply personal.

This conversation will leave you thinking differently about how we can create a country where everybody belongs - and how your own place in your own community can contribute to that.

In today’s episode you’ll learn: * That diversity and inclusion are not the responsibility of politicians, but of everyone across all communities. * The challenge of reflecting upon what ‘belonging’ means to your personally. * How to create a safe environment for people to talk about intense personal topics and beliefs * What is the constellations approach to enabling change.

Resources mentioned in this episode * Inclusive Aotearoa Collective Tāhono website * Anjum’s LinkedIn profile * Ep 30 - Engaging After Trauma - The Royal Commission into the Christchurch Mosques Attack, with Chris Mene * Wayfinding Leadership book, by Dr. Chellie Spiller and John Panoho * Flying Geese engagement organisation website * A wiki on the constellation method of social change

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Introducing Jon Tamihere-Kemeys Do the leaders of your organisation truly have faith that your planned strategies are going to succeed?

We spend a lot of time and energy on strategy processes and strategic plans, on trying to figure out where we want to go and how we are going to get there. But we really need to believe in these plans in order to move forward.

Today’s guest, Jon Tamihere-Kemeys, is someone who can help to illuminate why so many people have so little faith in these processes being successful. Here at Business Lab, JT has been helping us to get our heads around some of these more challenging aspects of our upcoming projects and his insight and perspective has been invaluable to us.

So, in this episode we focus on how to approach the concept of transformation. If you're in an organization that is maybe a little bit stuck or lacking direction, or things don't seem to be living up to their potential… don't start with ‘why’!

Start with ‘who’. Who are we as a collective? Who are we as an organisation?

From there, the kinds of breakthroughs that you're looking for are much more likely.

In today’s episode you’ll learn: * The importance of knowing your ‘why’ and growing that beyond something that’s just on paper. * Why it’s pivotal to tackle the question of ‘who’ you are in order to show up in that fully - both as an organisation and as an individual. * How strategy is about perception: taking a close look at distant things, and a distant look at close things. * How, when you are transforming an organisation strategically, it’s often hardest to gain perspective yourself if you are a sole representative.

Resources mentioned in this episode * Jon’s website * The book ‘Start With Why’, by Simon Sinek

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TBC

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Welcome to this special episode of Beyond Consultation - the wrap-up of the Talk It Up Unconference 2022!

This episode is not one of our usual interviews with one or two people, but a collection of conversations from the first ever Talk It Up Unconference that I attended recently Hamilton.

Think of today's episode as one of those digger station meals, where you get lots of small courses and they're all really good.

Talk It Up was organized by four local government friends and co-conspirators who found that the best part of the conferences they often attend are the conversations and the connections made during the breaks...

This is for everyone who attended, and for those who missed out. Enjoy!

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Introducing Simon Wright I don’t remember much from my history class as a 10-year old, and my year seven class put me off history for a long time.

It's only recently, as I've started to learn more about Māori that I've come to appreciate that history is story. And history is context. And context and stories are everything when you're trying to work with a community to enable change.

In today’s little bonus episode (or Episode 41B) we're going back to my conversation with Simon Wright on the history of democracy.

For better or worse, we seem to take our democracy for granted. The idea of representative democracy that we, the people, vote others in to make laws for us to govern us.

So Simon take us back in time to the roots of our democracy - to Rome, to Greece - and unpacks the implications for us today.

In today’s episode you’ll learn: * Are we questioning and discussing our current democratic system enough? * How the power of democracy should be demonstrated in the decisions that are being made - not just the elections that are held.

Resources mentioned in this episode * Simon’s LinkedIn profile * The Reframe Programme by Business Lab * Ep 41 - Mass digital participation, with Simon Wright * The ‘Talking Politics’ podcastSign up for the Movement Makers newsletter

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Introducing Rachel Reese Former mayor of Nelson Rachel Reese is a bit of an enigma. She's been labeled a National Party candidate, which she's never been. She’s been said to be in the pocket of the labor party and she's been called a greenie as well for some of her work on climate change and public transport.

But Rachel’s always had an emphasis on partnerships and she's always embraced going beyond just yes or no discussions about important issues.

In this episode, we go along her journey into becoming a mayor and her involvement in not just local issues, but also in national level initiatives, like the controversial Three Waters working group.

Rachel tells us about what she calls ‘the office of good ideas’, which moves local government to more of an enabling role and creates more permission and space for failure.

For any of you who are involved in politics, I'm sure you will nod your head along to some of the challenges that Rachel shares. And if you're not involved in politics, it's so valuable to understand what the reality is like for those people that you might be reporting to.

In today’s episode you’ll learn: * The key to a good plan is understanding the why. * The idea that local government doesn’t always need to lead conversations, but rather create space for those discussions to happen. * The importance of listening, even when you don’t like the message.

Resources mentioned in this episode * Rachel’s LinkedIn profile * The Reframe Programme by Business Lab * Ep 40 - The Southern Initiative and The Power of Community-Led, with Gael Surgenor * Ep 47 - Using Your Power For Good, with Tracey Bridges

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Introducing Tracey Bridges Have you ever had this great idea that you were excited to share with your manager, CEO or team leader… and they just don’t get it? They're not onboard. They're not excited. And the idea disappears.

In today's episode, we'll unpack some of what might be going on in those sorts of situations. We're talking power and influence with Tracey Bridges, Chair of the Wellington Regional Economic Development Agency and co-founder of The Good Registry.

Tracey's message for you is that you are powerful, and that you probably have more power than you understand or give yourself credit for. We talk about using your power for good, and how our culture can perpetuate the myth that you can only obtain influence or power by removing it from others.

Tracey challenges these myths by introducing the idea of an influence exchange - that you only become influential, truly influential by giving influence to others.

In today’s episode you’ll learn: * How the ide of singular purpose can be unhelpful and how honest reflection can often unlock the natural next steps. * The idea of power and thinking about how we can deploy our energies for good. * That being influential is not about having a certain style of doing things, but rather being intentional about the difference we want to make.

Resources mentioned in this episode * Tracey’s LinkedIn profile * The Reframe Programme by Business Lab * The Good Registry website * Ep 40 - The Southern Initiative and The Power of Community-Led, with Gael Surgenor * Ep 34 - Facilitating Breakthrough, with Adam Kahane * Ep 27 - Where to next for Community-Led Development? - with Megan Courtney

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Introducing Maria English Impact is an intriguing word. Isn't it?

There are a lot of challenges that come along with trying to figure out your impact. For smaller organizations it's just a nice to do.. It's costly. It's time consuming. And so we end up going on our assumptions or our hunches.

Other times, the measures we set up become the targets themselves and we lose touch with what is really going on on the ground. At the other end of the scale, you can have too much data and you become absolutely overwhelmed.

Today’s guest, Maria English, the CEO of Impact Lab, which was set up a couple of years ago to really tackle the challenge of how we measure impact and communicate it to others.

Maria teaches that understanding your impact is not really about data - it's about creating a learning process. Yes. Data is just one input into a conversation about what we are doing, what we are learning and what we can do differently.

If the word ‘data’ typically makes you roll your eyes and snore, this episode will change your perspective on its role completely.

In today’s episode you’ll learn: * Why getting a baseline of current data will help to make ‘now’ decisions that could have a ‘tomorrow’ impact. * That the smartest use of data is to simplify it to a point that’s easy to understand. * How reframing our mindsets to focus on value instead of cost can lead to more impactful long-term change

Resources mentioned in this episode * The Impact Lab website * Maria’s LinkedIn profile * Ep 29 - Human Learning Systems for Aotearoa New Zealand, with Dr. Toby Lowe * The Reframe Programme by Business Lab

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Introducing Jordan Green and Dr Jess Berentson-Shaw Are the words we are using to describe our work in systems change putting people off of doing just that? Could it be that phrases like ‘collective impact’ are being perceived as vague and passive?

Our two guests today are from The Workshop, a research organization here in Aotearoa New Zealand that helps people to explain and understand complex issues. They’ve recently published a report called ‘Mapping the Landscape’, and it’s one I go back to all the time. It gives us an idea of how to talk about systems change in a way that is understood in Aotearoa New Zealand.

The two authors of that report, Jordan Green and Dr. Jess Berenson Shaw, help us to dive into some really practical suggestions about how you can change your language to encourage the kind of system change that you're looking for.

If you’re looking to give your work a refresh, this episode is for you.

In today’s episode you’ll learn: * How the potential for systems change already sits within the community itself. * The importance of creating a shared language so that everyone can understand the importance of thinking in systems rather than individual choices. * How it’s not so much about relearning, but exercising systems that already exist but have been buried.

Resources mentioned in this episode * The Workshop website * A list of publications by The Workshop * Ep 40 - The Southern Initiative and The Power of Community-Led, with Gael Surgenor * The Reframe Programme by Business Lab

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Introducing Alex Bonham Should we be separating work and play when connecting with our communities?

Our guest today, Alex Bonham, challenges the idea that local government can’t be fun. Originally trained in theater and comedy, Alex now serves on her local board and has done her PhD in how we can create more opportunities for play in a city - the topic of her highly interesting book!

She’s also put on a sold-out play called An Extraordinary Meeting, in which she used live theater to help a community understand the different trade-offs that might be involved in a decision.

If you’ve been feeling a bit stumped and stuck in your engagement, this episode is for you. It will challenge you to explore how you can take aspects of your own personal life, your own strengths and skills that you might not think are relevant to your work, and use those to strengthen the conversations that you're wanting to create.

In today’s episode you’ll learn: * Addressing the myth that local government isn’t fun. * If less people engage in local politics, there will be fewer channels for people to be able to create the city that they want * The ineffectiveness of consulting communities in higher level, intangible language. * How we can bring in more creative ways to work with our communities.

Resources mentioned in this episode * Alex’s LinkedIn profile * Alex’s book, Play and the City

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Introducing Liz Skelton What's your default reaction to conflict?

I've been having lots of conversations this year with people who are trying to shift how their organization works with the people they serve and the ‘emotional rollercoaster’ is often mentioned. People who are in the dream jobs are feeling disillusioned and constrained by the conditions around them.

If that sounds like you, then this episode is going to be hugely helpful.

The conversation today is with Liz Skelton who has a wealth of experience, helping different groups of people across all sorts of backgrounds to make social and cultural change together. She is the co-founder, director and now the chair of Collaboration for Impact in Australia, which tries to help communities work on the root causes of problems rather than the symptoms.

In this episode Liz helps us to reframe the challenge of working within an organization that you feel is constraining you. She encourages us to shift our dialogue from ‘my organization is constraining me’ to ‘shifting beliefs and perspectives IS the work’…

In today’s episode you’ll learn: * That building the muscles to sit with constant discomfort, will enable our systems to be uncomfortable enough to change. * How we need to be optimistic about the future, but also ruthlessly real about what it will take to get there. * The benefit of preparing for the point of resistance rather than viewing it as a failure when you reach it.

Resources mentioned in this episode * Paul’s LinkedIn profile here, and his email: paul@businesslab.co.nz * Liz Skelton’s LinkedIn profile * Collaboration for Impact website * Download page for the Lost Conversations book * Ep 33 - Do We Need Deep Democracy? with Max Rashbrooke * Ep 36 - What If You Built A Movement? with Liz Weaver

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Introducing Craig Churchill Craig's journey into public sector leadership was not typical. He didn't come up through the community sector or the public sector. In fact, he was a transport and logistics expert helping to get goods around the country as fast as possible!

Now he’s a regional commissioner for the Ministry of Social Development and a Public Service Commissioner under the Public Service Act.

Because of Craig’s private sector background, I was expecting him to bring a strong private sector and logistics lens to his new public sector role. What a surprise to find that his focus is on the interconnected nature of the public service and how the Ministry of Social Development can be an enabler for others within that system.

In today’s episode you’ll learn: * The value of having a strong operational leader to free up other people to explore the bigger systemic picture. * How to grow your partnership aspirations through small everyday actions that add up over time * The reality of the new Public Service Commissioner role (which Craig calls a “pub with no beer”) * How government can play an enabling role for iwi Māori to serve their whānau needs.

Resources mentioned in this episode * Craig’s LinkedIn profile * Summary of The Public Sector Act 2020 changes * Stuff news story: Te Tauihu iwi launch collaborative trust for Covid recovery

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Introducing Simon Wright When we make it easy for our communities to talk to us through quick surveys and online forms, are we losing the opportunity for important and hard conversations?

Today’s guest, Simon Wright, unpacks the limitations of our consultation mindset. The limitations of technical or expert-driven conversations that miss the political and moral implications when engaging with communities.

There is power in open dialogue and discussion, but often organisations are talking to people through closed dialogues. It’s only through those hard conversations, those brave dialogues, that we can uncover insights that otherwise we might not have expected.

Simon has a wealth of stories and experiences that he can draw on as a member on the expert advisory panel for the New Zealand Open Government Partnership, as a partner at Public Engagement Projects, and as a teacher on digital engagement at Victoria University.

This episode will be particularly valuable for anybody working in a policy role who is trying to understand how to fit community participation into the policy process.

In today’s episode you’ll learn: * Why the ‘hub-and-spoke’ model of consultation causes disconnect and why you should move away from it * That the public is tired of consultation and hungry for more authentic ways of talking and working with institutions * Why we should stop trying to make it easy and fast for the public to engage with institutions * How digital tools can help us to have open dialogues with more people to uncover new ideas and ways of thinking. * How to step up your digital engagement to allow people to build on each other’s ideas instead of having a two-way conversation with only your organisation.

Resources mentioned in this episode * Leave us a voice message * Simon’s LinkedIn profile * New Zealand Open Government Partnership * Simon’s firm, Public Engagement Projects * The POL.IS website

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Introducing Gael Surgenor How do we continue to take an experimental approach while working on opportunities that are looking 30 years into the future?

What if you find yourself in an existing program of work that has stalled?

Resetting existing work has been a bit of a theme for Gael Surgenor throughout her career. When things are a bit murky, nobody quite knows what to do. And those are ideal conditions for innovation.

The Southern Initiative has been Gael’s playground over the last seven years, and in this episode she delves into the mindsets that have helped her to shape and approach this long-term project.

She’s found it helpful to treat her work as a short-term gig so she feels free to experiment. Plus she has continued to think of her work in the public sector as “working for community” to remind herself of who she is truly serving.

If you’re feeling disheartened by your current work or questioning your long-term impact, this episode is for you.

In today’s episode you’ll learn: * That leaders need to be space-makers, not space-takers * The differences between the planning approach and the living systems approach (and why planning is not enough) * How social entrepreneurial skills can help to move a project forward and why it’s important to seek those skills out. * How using what you already have can be more effective than starting new.

Resources mentioned in this episode * Leave us a voice message * Gael’s LinkedIn profile * The Southern Initiative website * Ep 39 - The Waikato Wellbeing Project with Harvey Brookes

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Introducing Harvey Brookes Harvey is the lead agitator and coordinator working behind the scenes on the Waikato Wellbeing Project - a collective effort to improve wellbeing in one region of Aotearoa New Zealand.

Setting up a project of this type is a learning exercise in and of itself. Harvey and his team have been generous in sharing their lessons learned along the way - openly and honestly.

One of the many things I enjoyed about this conversation is how Harvey epitomises the journey that a lot of facilitators seem to go on.

Often we begin this work believing we need to have all the answers figured out. We go searching for the “right solution” or the “evidence-based approach” or the “clear plan”.

But over time we learn to instead approach this work with curiosity and a desire to connect with people, to experiment and to learn.

You can read all the articles, you can listen to all the podcasts, you can use all the right language… but sometimes the conditions aren't right in your own life to be able to apply the theory or you haven't yet had the kind of experience that allows you to put your insight into practice.

If you're in a situation where you are wanting to work more collaboratively, more systemically, more relationally, then you're going to love hearing from Harvey as we go behind the scenes of setting up the Waikato Wellbeing Project.

In today’s episode you’ll learn: * How structure, relationships, permission and skills are all needed for people to work together effectively. * Why listening to the voices and expertise of people with lived experience is crucial. * That failure is okay and that it’s part of the process to solutions emerging. * That facilitation is a supportive role and we don’t need to know all the answers.

Resources mentioned in this episode * Leave us a voice message * Contact us to learn more about our Virtually Productive workshops * Harvey’s LinkedIn profile * The Waikato Wellbeing Project website * Ep 40 - The Southern Initiative and The Power of Community-Led, with Gael Surgenor * Ep 36 - What If You Built A Movement? with Liz Weaver * Ep 34 - Facilitating Breakthrough, with Adam Kahane * Ep 31 - When Your Cross-Sector Collaboration Needs A Refresh, with Henry Pavey

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Introducing Amy Hubbard How do you convince somebody from finance, legal or engineering that they need to involve the community at the start of that big new project?

Amy Hubbard from Capire Consulting Group has lived and breathed community engagement since she left university. As a result, she has a wealth of stories that are just sitting there, ready to pull out for the right person at the right moment to communicate the value of community engagement.

Today's show really is a lot about planning for success with community engagement. Amy shares a percentage of time that she believes is a smart amount of time to spend on getting ready for engagement. The number might surprise you.

Get your pen and paper ready for this helpful episode, filled with tips and tools to help you better prepare for your next engagement project.

In today’s episode you’ll learn: * What it looks like to set up an engagement project for success. * Why ‘engagement’ means different things to different people and how you can define this more clearly. * A look at the Capire Engagement Triangle tool and how to use it. * What marrying social impact and engagement looks like in practice.

Resources mentioned in this episode * Join us for the Talk It Up unconference in February 2022 in Kirikiriroa Hamilton * Leave us a voice message * Amy’s LinkedIn profile * The Capire Consulting Group website * The Engagement Triangle tool download page (scroll down to bottom of page 1) * The IAP2 website * Episode 10 - Online Community Engagement - with Bang the Table co-founder Matthew Crozier

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Introducing Andrew O’Keeffe It was only 250 years ago that most humans changed their habitat from hunting and working together in villages, to working in offices and factories. But those human instincts from the Savannah, from the bush, from our villages still exist within us.

Andrew O’Keeffe has taken the science of human instincts and looked at how to apply them within organizations. He strives to understand those instincts and how we can harness them in how we work together.

In speaking with Andrew, my overall question was ‘how might we use the science of human instincts to improve how organizations work with communities?’ and the fascinating answer is that human instincts tells us to embrace things that are sometimes looked down on in the workplace.

We tackle things like office gossip and chit-chat, and Andrew debunks the myth that humans are averse to change. He talks about how you can communicate, how you can talk, how you can listen to really embrace what we are hardwired to be thinking about and working through within the back of our brains.

We only scratched the surface, but if you do any work with communities, this will be a really valuable episode for you.

In today’s episode you’ll learn: * How to encourage the change you’re looking for by tapping into what we know about human instincts. * How to create an organisational culture based on human instincts and how to engage externally based on them * Examples of human instincts and how they play out in the workplace. * Tackling the myth that people resist change and diving into what instincts are really at play.

Resources mentioned in this episode * Join us for the Talk It Up unconference in February 2022 in Kirikiriroa Hamilton * Leave us a voice message * The Hardwired Humans website * List of books written by Andrew * Sign up for Andrew’s newsletter * Ep 9 - The Five Wai's (Not Why's) of Māori Engagement, with Atawhai Tibble * Ep 25 - Local Decision Making, with Judene Edgar

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Introducing Liz Weaver In late 2019, we spoke to a dozen local leaders about the various collaborative groups they were involved in. They all agreed that the groups were operating reasonably well.

At the same time, we spoke to lower-level people in those same organisations. And they disagreed. They described the groups’ frustrating bureaucracy, their lack of impact, and the lack of community involvement.

The reason for the discussions was we hoped to invite Liz Weaver to our city to run a workshop on collaborative governance. COVID-19 soon interfered with that plan, but now Liz is able to share her insights as a podcast guest instead.

As one of the CEO’s of the Tamarack Institute in Canada, Liz shares her personal story of the first collaborative group she was involved in and how that has influenced Tamarack’s work. Tamarack plays a lead role in guiding a nationwide movement in poverty reduction, youth wellbeing, and climate transitions.

If you've been having one of those demoralising days or weeks where you feel like you are doing this all alone, then this conversation is going to leave you feeling really uplifted.

In today’s episode you’ll learn: * Where to even begin when you want to collaborate on a complex problem * How to pay attention to your context and who is not around the table right now * The value of starting with a question, rather than a problem, when inviting people to collaborate * The importance of telling our stories in order to grow a movement.

Resources mentioned in this episode * Join us for the Talk It Up unconference in February 2022 in Kirikiriroa Hamilton * Liz Weaver’s LinkedIn profile * The Tamarack Institute website * Liz’s email: liz@tamarackcommunity.ca * Podcast Episode 19 - Collective Impact with An Aotearoa Flavour - with Israel Hawkins

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Introducing Michelle Feenan What does it take to build an engaging organisation? An organisation that is driven by the needs of the people you serve. Where everybody is working in a coordinated way to listen, respect, understand, and partner up with your community.

Today's guest is Michelle Feenan, who has written the course on exactly that.

She's full of stories and powerful questions that will grow an organisation where engagement is the everyday normal.

How can we build the case for engagement? How can we encourage senior leadership to buy into the idea of permanently looking outwards?

Get your pen and paper ready and enjoy this powerful episode!

In today’s episode you’ll learn: * What you might need to give up to become more effective with your community engagement * How to navigate conflict with community members (and the importance of letting go of your need to ‘have the answers’) * How to identify your own subconscious biases when engaging people from different cultures * How to identify your organisation’s values and stress test them to see how committed you really are to them.

Resources mentioned in this episode * Join us for the Talk It Up unconference in February 2022 in Kirikiriroa Hamilton * Michelle Feenan’s LinkedIn profile * Engagement Plus website * IAP2 Training website * Podcast Episode 30 - Engaging After Trauma - The Royal Commission into the Christchurch Mosques Attack, with Chris Mene * Podcast Episode 29 and bonus summary episode - Human Learning Systems for Aotearoa New Zealand, with Dr. Toby Lowe.

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Introducing Adam Kahane Our guest today has written five books on facilitation and has worked in environments where the stakes were very high - like post-apartheid South Africa or in Columbia after 52 years of civil war.

Adam has been on my wishlist to interview ever since I read his first book soon after leaving university. Although you may not be working in the same kind of high-stakes environments as Adam, we can all learn a lot from his thoughtful approach to facilitating change.

Adam believes that facilitation is about everything that you do to help people to work together to affect change. It’s not just about flip charts, sticky notes and whiteboards.

In this episode, we unpack his latest book, Facilitating Breakthrough, where Adam gives us a new framework for thinking about how to enable change.

If you involved in any sort of change work, then this episode is for you.

In today’s episode you’ll learn: * The difference between horizontal and vertical facilitation and how to cycle between them. * How the core of facilitation is removing obstacles to greater contribution; to love, power and justice. * That the world needs more and better collaboration and therefore more and better facilitation.

Resources mentioned in this episode * Join us for the Talk It Up unconference in February 2022 in Kirikiriroa Hamilton * Adam Kahane’s LinkedIn profile * List of Adam’s book and his bio * Facilitating Breakthrough on Climate: Adam Kahane in Conversation with Christiana Figueres * Facilitating Breakthrough on Peace: Adam Kahane in Conversation with President Santos * Facilitating Breakthrough on Equality: Adam Kahane in Conversation with Trevor Manuel

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Introducing Max Rashbrooke Here in Aotearoa New Zealand we’d like to think that we live in a classless society. That anyone can “make it” and that opportunities are equal.

But today's guest, author Max Rashbrooke, has made a career out of unpacking uncomfortable myths such as this. He shows that there are indeed different classes in Aotearoa New Zealand, and that this affects how citizens engage with government.

During our discussion, Max makes the case for a deeper form of democracy and calls for Aotearoa New Zealand to join the wave of deliberative democracy that is spreading across the globe.

How exciting is that?

If you are ready to have your views of our society challenged a bit, this eye-opening episode is for you.

In today’s episode you’ll learn: * What are “the Remuera Right” and “the Kilbirnie Left” * The uncomfortable truth about social classes in Aotearoa New Zealand and what that means for your work * How to navigate historical distrust from communities * How the long-term benefits of deliberative democracy far outweigh the (sense of) short-term loss of control for governments.

Resources mentioned in this episode * Join us for the Talk It Up unconference in February 2022 in Kirikiriroa Hamilton * Max Rashbrooke’s LinkedIn profile * Max Rashbrooke’s website * Browse and purchase Max’s books, especially his latest book Too Much Money * Watch Max’s hugely popular TEDx talk: Three Ways to Upgrade Democracy for the 21st Century * Listen to episode 28 where we hear a case study of Deliberative democracy for the future of Auckland's water, with Dr Tatjana Buklijas and Dr Jenny Wigley.

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Introducing Kataraina Davis Recently, I went back and looked at our podcast stats to see what episodes are most popular. Between the top two episodes, there's a pretty clear theme - you are hungry to learn more about Māori ways of being and engaging.

Our guest, Kataraina Davis, comes highly recommended. She is involved with a programme called Te Kaa that helps people to understand Māori values, worldviews and practices.

There can be a lot of anxiety and guilt that comes up for non-Māori when thinking about how to work effectively with Māori.

If this is true for you, it might be a signal that there's some more learning for you to do. This episode is the perfect place to start.

In today’s episode you’ll learn: * How do Māori and European based ways of designing, engaging and innovating differ? * If you're working in a non-Māori organization, what is your personal role? * How important it is to role model relationship-building at all times * What partnership between Māori and non-Māori organisations can look like * How do we come to work being fully ourselves and whose responsibility is it to make this happen?

Resources mentioned in this episode * Kataraina Davis’ LinkedIn profile * The Te Kaa website * Episode 3 - How to Disrupt Systems for Wellbeing, with Zaynel Sushil * Episode 9 - The Five Wai's (Not Why's) of Māori Engagement, with Atawhai Tibble * Episode 22 - Real talk about Māori-Crown partnerships, with Kara Nepe-Apatu

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Introducing Henry Pavey In theory, collaborative partnerships should move mountains. You share information. Coordinate your activities. Unlock new resources. Share power. You see the whole system and respond - together.

But often these partnerships start with a roar… only to peter out as enthusiasm drops and true collaboration falls through the cracks.

Today’s guest, Henry Pavey, has made a career out of turning around average partnership groups into ones that have a real impact. During our conversation, I realised that the challenges Henry faces in the UK mirror the challenges with these kinds of partnerships here in New Zealand.

Fortunately, Henry has got excellent suggestions for turning around an average partnership. These are based on decades of experiences working inside partnerships and most recently as a strategic partnerships consultant.

My hope for today's episode is that it will inspire you to be the brave person that stands up in your partnership group and says, ‘I think we need a refresh’.

In today’s episode you’ll learn: * What commonly holds back partnerships from achieving their potential * The benefits of thinking of your partnership like an organisation * Why your partnership probably needs an “engine room” * How you can turn around a partnership that is just muddling through - with a combination of qualitative and quantitative feedback sought anonymously before a meeting * The value of continually referring back to your vision and ground rules at the top of every meeting.

Resources mentioned in this episode * Henry Pavey’s LinkedIn profile * The Collaborative Impact website

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15 March 2019 was a dark day in Aotearoa New Zealand, with a terrorist attack on mosques in Christchurch, New Zealand.

Today's show is with Chris Mene, a community engagement practitioner with deep experience engaging communities following trauma. He played a big role for over 10 years in Christchurch following the earthquakes. His police background has been invaluable in that battleground context.

We talk through the story of Chris's involvement in the Royal Commission of Inquiry into the terrorist attack on Christchurch masjidain. Chris helped to establish and facilitate the Muslim Community Reference Group and shares his lessons from that process.

As facilitators we can learn a lot from somebody like Chris who has engaged in a context that is heavy with grief.

Everybody brings some level of trauma with them into every group situation. When you can be aware of that reality, and careful about how you show up as a facilitator, you can create space for understanding and healing.

In today’s episode you’ll learn: * What facilitators can do to prepare themselves for work in trauma settings. * The importance of understanding the current context (and how you can do this). * How understanding ourselves is crucial for being effective in conversations about trauma. * Why emotional limits are important (and how to establish them).

Resources mentioned in this episode * Chris Mene’s LinkedIn profile * IAP2 Training Courses * Anne Pattillo’s LinkedIn profile * The Royal Commission of Inquiry into the Christchurch Terrorist Attacks * Muslim Community Reference Group: Lessons for the future - Report

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Introducing Dr. Toby Lowe FULL VERSION AVAILABLE HERE

Our latest episode, number 29, is with Dr. Toby Lowe on Human Learning Systems - and the show is almost an hour long! So if you're a little bit strapped for time, then we have cut up this shorter episode for you.

What I wanted to do with Toby was explore what it might mean to embrace human learning systems here in Aotearoa New Zealand.

So if you've got a commute or a moment to yourself and you just want to get to the core of what Toby was talking about, then this summary is for you.

In today’s episode you’ll learn: * How do we translate Human Learning Systems into language that makes sense in New Zealand - or do we build our own? * Why it’s important to be ‘human to each other’ in a public service setting. * The importance of experimenting to create effective local solutions. * Thoughts on how we can invest our time and energy centrally vs. locally.

Resources mentioned in this episode * Dr. Toby Lowes’ LinkedIn profile * https://realworld.report/ - the latest book on Human Learning Systems - free to access, with 400+ pages of stories and insights * https://www.centreforpublicimpact.org/assets/documents/hls-real-world-summary.pdf - a summary version of the latest book, at only 60 pages. * https://www.humanlearning.systems/ - the central place for learning more about Human Learning Systems and joining the movement * https://www.centreforpublicimpact.org/ - The think-tank Toby works for which is reimagining government. * https://www.psa.org.nz/assets/Uploads/ProgressiveThinking-Toby-Brown-Adrian-Lowe-Thea-Snow.pdf- article on how to embrace HLS in a post-COVID world * https://inspiringcommunities.org.nz/shaping-the-future/ - a collection of resources related to various integrated systems shifts

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Introducing Dr. Toby Lowe BONUS SUMMARY VERSION AVAILABLE HERE

Today's guest is Dr. Toby Lowe, who is going to give you a choice about what kind of public service world you want to believe in? He is the lead voice behind what is fast becoming a global movement called The Human Learning Systems Movement.

And it's all about making a different choice when working in public service. It’s about recognising the full person in front of you. It is based on learning, rather than control. Looking at the underlying causes behind the symptoms that you might be seeing, and really trying to get an understanding of the messiness of what's going on, rather than trying to make things linear.

What I wanted to do with Toby was explore what it might mean to embrace human learning systems here in Aotearoa New Zealand.

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Introducing Dr Tatjana Buklijas and Dr Jenny Wigley Deliberative democracy is a topic that has come up more than once on the Beyond Consultation podcast.

To look at how deliberative democracy might be applied here in New Zealand, we have not one, but two people here to share their experience working on the Complex Conversations Project that is funded by the Ministry of Business Innovation and Employment.

Dr. Tatjana Buklijas works at the university of Auckland, and Dr. Jenny Wigley works at Watercare. They recently teamed up to research the impact of deliberative democracy through a real-life project with Watercare looking at the future of Auckland’s water supply.

But what is deliberative democracy? Tatjana explains the three aspects:

It involves bringing a diverse group of citizens together (and the diversity of the group is hugely important)
You then provide information to that group so they can understand the complexity of a particular issue or situation
The group then discusses the issue to see what consensus might (or might not) emerge.

Deliberative democracy has a rich overseas tradition. It’s allowed countries to make progress on some sticky issues.

How might we build on this in Aotearoa New Zealand while also recognising our own rich history of kōrero in te ao Māori?

In today’s episode you’ll learn: * The difference between representative democracy, participatory democracy and deliberative democracy, and why it matters. * What we can learn from both deliberative democracy and Tikanga Māori. * Steps you might take to apply deliberative democracy in your work. * How the Complex Conversations Project is working to build a movement of deliberative democracy in Aotearoa New Zealand.

Resources mentioned in this episode * Beyond Consultation Podcast Episode 13 with Helen Grant where Helen mentioned Auckland Council’s interest in deliberative democracy * The Complex Conversations Project * Dr. Tatjana Buklijas’ LinkedIn profile * Dr. Jenny Wigley’s LinkedIn profile

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Introducing Megan Courtney I first met Megan when I moved to Nelson five or six years ago. We caught up for a cup of coffee and I was a little bit in awe of some of the stuff she was talking about.

She's one of the core members of Inspiring Communities and has been with the organisation since it started 15 years ago.

In this episode we talk about the changes she’s seen in community-led development during this time.

We also explore Inspiring Communities’ journey as an organization that's made up of European descended New Zealanders who are authentically asking themselves, ‘How can we be of Aotearoa New Zealand?’

This episode is packed with all sorts of mind-altering gold nuggets.

If you're looking for insight into how to navigate the messiness of systems change or involved in community-led development, you are going to love this conversation.

In today’s episode you’ll learn: * The nature of cycles, and how we shouldn’t get too stuck on the exciting stuff in the beginning when the real work comes with pushing through. * How structural response without changing mindsets and practices can only take us so far. * Why it’s important to think of different ways of enabling participation in what you’re doing. * How you might authentically grow and nurture a Tangata Tiriti organisation.

Resources mentioned in this episode * Inspiring Communities’ website. * Te Kai a te Rangatira - a collection of videos sharing tikanga Māori.

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Today’s topic was inspired by two things that happened on the morning of recording this episode.

First, our original guest opened up about not being up to the recording session. Life was just too much at that moment.

Second, I was reading this fantastic report called Wellbeing Inspires Well-doing. The report looks at how changemakers’ inner wellbeing influences their work.

These two small things made me realise how important it is to look after your own wellbeing, especially if you are hoping to serve others. In short, if the oxygen mask pops down, make sure you put your own one on before you start helping other people.

It can be really easy to put other people's needs ahead of our own. Even more so now that we find ourselves in lockdown, possibly alongside family and loved ones.

So, if that sounds like something you can relate to, today's episode is for you.

In today’s episode you’ll learn: * Why it’s important to put ‘protection barriers’ in place for our own wellbeing * Six practices that makes navigating complexity easier * How pausing and doing something for yourself can help you better serve others

Resources mentioned in this episode * Download a Wellbeing Plan template * If you need a wellbeing coach, we recommend https://www.tuiwilliams.com/or https://www.intentionalgenerations.com/ * Wellbeing Inspires Welldoing report * Tips on killing stress by Alicia McKay * Personal Practices for Navigating Complexity - article by Business Lab

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I first met today’s guest when we were fellow actors in our local drama production, but she is much more than a former theater colleague.

Deputy Mayor of Nelson City Council, Judene Edgar, really epitomizes what it means to be committed, to going beyond consultation.

Her CV is really lengthy (which we discuss), but safe to say that Judene has perspective from so many different angles!

In this episode we look ahead to the future of local governments because Judene is in the thick of some of the reforms that are coming down the pipeline being potentially taken from councils and transferred to regional organizations .

Within this context, how can you enable local power and local decision making when services are being centralized to improve efficiency through scale?

How do you do engagement and consultation? How do you choose the right media? How do you set expectations realistically? We talk about how to keep yourself healthy and well, when you're driven by service and a need to say yes.

In today’s episode you’ll learn: * The importance of scoping the actual problem, instead of finding solutions for the symptoms. * Why it’s important to forge real interpersonal relationships with your community - get out there! * How to keep yourself healthy and well when you’re driven by service. * Why the right media and realistic expectations go a long way to building trust and understanding in your community.

Resources mentioned in this episode * Judene’s LinkedIn profile. * Information on the Three Waters Reform Programme.

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Leanne Hughes interviews our host Paul McGregor A year into hosting this podcast, I realise that the process has taught me so much about being a better communicator, facilitator and consultant. Recently, it also led me to being interviewed for Episode 179 of the the First Time Facilitator Podcast with the energetic Leanne Hughes.

If you are feeling tired or drained within your role at the moment, today's episode is going to provide you with a bit of inspiration, as well as some new ideas, tools and maybe even some perspective.

This time, we are flipping the script and I'm the one being interviewed. Leanne Hughes gave us permission to share her interview with me on our own podcast… with a few edits for our audience!

I open up about some of the challenges I've faced working in government, being a facilitator, and a consultant, and how it all brought me to where I am today.

In today’s episode you’ll learn: * Why facilitation doesn’t mean solving all the problems for your group. * Some of my past facilitation failures and how those have shaped me * Why it’s important to realise that the value we deliver is separate from our self-worth * How trusting your curiosity and intuition can be great tools for facilitation in the moment.

Resources mentioned in this episode * Paul McGregor’s LinkedIn profile. * The Business Lab website * Leanne Hughes LinkedIn profile. * The First Time Facilitator Podcast * The Flipchart Facebook page.

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Introducing Breanna McQuade Bright, curious and always evolving, Bre is one of our most prized assets here at Business Lab.

We can often get so bogged down with the pressures of everyday work that we can forget to ask the bigger questions. But Bre's always asking them naturally - and that has a lot of power.

She's constantly digging deeper. Even in her job interview, she asked us, ‘What's your future vision for the business?’.

She embodies the power of curiosity. Bre doesn’t shy away from emotion and her approach to ‘being human’ within the workplace.

Bre wears many hats on top of being our Operations Manager. One of those hats is with The Social Experiment, and that’s the context we dive into in today’s episode.

Connect with Bre via LinkedIn.

In today’s episode you’ll learn: * Why a little mystery can go a long way when inviting people to engage with you * The importance of defining the ‘container’ for codesign or social innovation * Why systems thinking and codesign can be so challenging for people to grapple with (and how to help people through that) * The value of being open about emotions and creating space for them at work (especially when things are super busy).

Resources mentioned in this episode * The Social Experiment

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Introducing Kara Nepe-Apatu

Passionate about community, social justice and having the voices heard of those who are often overlooked, Kara Nepe-Apatu is outspoken and clear about where she feels the social conversation should go next.

Kara, who works at NZ Treasury, states on her LinkedIn bio that "My opinions are my own and do not reflect the position of the public service." But her opinions are garnering reaction - real and emotional reaction.

Recently, in a LinkedIn post, Kara shared her frustrations over the level of discussion around Māori-Crown relationships, claiming that it was still a basic, 101 type of conversation.

She wants more.

More ‘real talk’. Better partnership models and initiatives. Idea/collaboration hubs where iwi, communities, businesses and government can grow better partnerships.

She wants gnarly questions to be brought to the table - and many are agreeing with her.

So, how can we improve the conversations around Māori-Crown relationships? How do we go about ‘leveling up’ and finally getting to those tough and gnarly issues that are truly at the heart of the matter?

In this episode, Kara shares her passion for the issue and brings her ideas forward in an attempt to kick-start a new movement.

Connect with Kara Nepe-Apatu via LinkedIn here.

In today’s episode you’ll learn: * Why people are craving discussions about the gnarly “how” of Māori partnerships * How to enable and support tino rangatiratanga (Māori rights to self-governance) * Some ‘bright lights’ we can look to for inspiration in Māori-Crown relationships * What’s coming next in this discussion about Māori-Crown relationships .

Resources mentioned in this episode * The LinkedIn post that started it all * Atawhai Tibble’s podcast episode on The Five Wai’s (Not Why’s) of Māori Engagement * Atawhai’s article on The Five Wai’s

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Do you want to take meaningful action on inclusion and belonging?

Well, you’re not alone.

Organisations up and down the country have realised the huge impact of creating diverse and inclusive workplaces and communities.

But there’s a gap between good intentions and good practice.

That’s where Zoe and the team from AllHuman can help. They help organisations to take meaningful action on diversity and inclusion so people feel they truly belong at their workplace.

Because here’s the thing: if you don’t feel like you belong in your own organisation, how can your organisation help people to belong in their own community?

Zoe brings a wealth of experience to shift this conversation forward.

She’s a proactive force in helping people use their voice, feel like they’re heard, and know they belong in their workplace. Looking at her past work you can see her passion for people bringing their whole selves to work, feel fulfilled, and be celebrated for what makes them, them.

Connect with Zoe via the AllHuman website, on LinkedIn, or email.

In today’s episode you’ll learn: * Why belonging should be the central focus in organisations and communities. * The number one thing that any organisation and community can do to create belonging… that won’t cost a fortune. * How you can easily build a case for investing in belonging in your organisation. * How to create belonging at your next party 🎉 * Why conversations about flexible working or the 4 Day Work Week might provide a starting point for a bigger conversation about belonging.

Resources mentioned in this episode * Website of Zoe’s business: AllHuman

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Introducing Becky Hirst Becky Hirst is a skilled community engagement practitioner who is willing to tell it how it is. And she has grave concerns for the future of public participation.

To have a thriving society, we need people and communities who are actively involved in civic life. For politicians, public servants, corporations, or planners to engage with communities in any positive way, they need to learn a new way of doing things.

A wealth of sophisticated public consultation slogans, methods and frameworks are frequently seen.

But Becky believes we are close to breaking point. Some fundamental things are missing. And, right now, we need to focus our energies on them. As a matter of urgency.

All of which led Becky to write For The Love of Community Engagement - a highly readable collection of stories and insights on community engagement.

Connect with Becky via her website or on LinkedIn, Facebook, Twitter or Instagram.

In today’s episode you’ll learn: * How our upbringing can impact our community engagement * What’s missing in community engagement practice right now * What is the “goosebumps" measure of impact * Why we need our decision-makers to stay for more than just the photo-shoot * What citizen-centric engagement actually looks like (with lots of stories of this in action) * Why you need to go where the people are!

And so much more. Seriously, this episode is packed full of value and we can’t recommend Becky’s book highly enough.

Resources mentioned in this episode * For the Love of Community Engagement - Becky’s new book * Global Community Engagement Day.

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Introducing Israel Hawkins Ngati Kahungunu and Ngati Tuwharetoa

Israel’s passion for serving people can leave one blown away.

He may not take himself too seriously (get ready for some laughs). But his mahi (work) has serious impact in the lives of people.

And the approach is unorthodox.

Starting about 20 years ago when Israel and some friends went to help people in slums in the Philippines, they experienced important lessons about the impact of their own worldview. And the impact of meaning well, yet never asking the people if the help was wanted.

They left, challenged with the way they would support whānau and community.

In 2008, Israel with Teresa Hawkins formed WERA Aotearoa Charitable Trust (WACT) from a deep desire to provide effective and relative services to communities throughout Aotearoa.

Leaving behind the mainstream, their methodologies and delivery have a powerful Māori approach. With community and relationship building at the front.

A transformative example of this is the establishment of Waka Whakamua Collective Impact Group is made up of 30 providers, businesses, churches and organisations focused on working together to deliver services supporting and strengthening youth, whanau and the wider community.

Connect with Israel via LinkedIn or israel@wact.org.nz.

In today’s episode you’ll learn * Collective Impact: the history and the 5 principles. * The Māori approach of inclusivity - going beyond mainstream. * The missing first step of Collective Impact: Connection and agreement. * The impact of preconceptions and judgements when jumping in to solve “issues”. * The journey of establishing the Collective Impact Group - Waka Whakamua. * Seeing value in what each person at the table brings. * What happens when you combine Community Led Development Principles and Collective Impact Methodologies. * Why the government wasn’t invited to Waka Whakamua.

Resources mentioned in this episode * The Collective Process of Waka Whakamua * Website: Waka Whakamua Collective Impact Group * Website: Wera Aotearoa Charitable Trust (WACT) * Article: Collective Impact, by John Kania & Mark Kramer

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Introducing Megan Shove As a self-proclaimed “research geek” Megan has quite the experience sinking her teeth into grunty research and methodologies aligned to social value.

Pair this up with the history of social conscious action where she would join her sister in protests.

And then add on her work in charities, international development, and local government with a healthy splash of travel and it’s a winning combination… to land herself in environments focused on social value and impact.

Megan contributes to understanding impact on a community development level through working for Te Whānau O Waipareira and Social Value Aotearoa.

Connect with Megan via LinkedIn

In today’s episode you’ll learn * Social Value, Social Accounting, and Social Return on Investment. Going beyond the terms to get familiar with how these mindsets and methodologies approach impact evaluation with heart. * Where does one start with impact evaluation? * The number 1 Rule: Involve Stakeholders. Always. * The seven guiding principles of Social Value. * Putting monetary value on the work you’re doing and the impact you’re creating. * How Aotearoa (New Zealand) compares to others in Social Return on Investment practices. * How a game can help you understand your stakeholder’s values…

Resources mentioned in this episode * Social Value Aotearoa’s Tools and Resources * Social Value Aotearoa’s website

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Introducing Holly Bennett Becoming a professional lobbyist may not be the most expected career path for… anyone.

Even Holly Bennett thought she’d be a Criminal Litigator. Until her career took a political turn and her interest in lobbying turned into a business.

Holly leads the way for what it means to be a professional lobbyist in a world that sees it as a dark art.

Her mission is to “unmask the government relations industry in Aotearoa so that everyone can have their voice heard” and she’s making this happen through her two businesses Engage and HSB.

Ko Ngongotahā te māunga

Ko Rotorua te roto

Ko Te Arawa te waka

Ko Tamatekapua tōku tīpuna

Ko Te Arawa tōku iwi

Ko Ngāti Whakaue me Ngāti Pikiao tōku hapū

Ko Ohinemutu tōku marae

Ko Holly Suzanne Bennett ahau.

In today’s episode you’ll learn * The truth about lobbying… is it really the dark art and dirty politics it’s made out to be? * What it takes to be a professional lobbyist * How a beginner can get started with lobbying to those in power and government * How looking after relationships is a core element of being a lobbyist

Resources mentioned in this episode * Engage - your place to get trained in government relations and lobbying www.engage.org.nz * Holly’s firm for specialist advice and support - HSB Government Relations: https://hsbgovernmentrelations.nz/

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Re-Introducing Paul McGregor If you want to get Paul fired up, send him to a 3 hour online meeting where nobody says anything except for one or two presenters.

Watch him squirm as the presenter reads from Powerpoint slides with size 10 font and clip-art illustrations.

See him grit his teeth as everybody else pulls out their phones to find a distraction. As the presenter acts surprised at the lack of audience participation. As finally, a participant pipes up in frustration part-way through the presentation.

Yes, Paul is passionate about groups achieving more together by drawing on everybody’s wisdom and energy. Paul is here to guide you to collaborate with your community - whether that’s online or offline.

You can reach out and connect with Paul via LinkedIn.

In today’s episode you’ll learn * The simple mistake that dooms many virtual meetings right from the moment people login * What evolutionary psychology can teach us about how to open virtual meetings * Why we crave (and need) connection if we are to do good work together virtually * The value of contrast in virtual meetings - to ensure people are awake and engaged * What tools you can add into the mix to prevent your virtual meetings from lapsing into a lecture.

Resources mentioned in this episode * Virtually Productive, Paul’s e-book on how to facilitate virtual meetings that create change outside the meeting room * The Firsttime Facilitator Podcast, Paul’s go-to-podcast for everything facilitation * Truth and Lies: What People Are Really Thinking, by Mark Bowden - the book that applies evolutionary psychology to our everyday interactions with people.

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Introducing a cheeky Bonus Episode In Episode 13 we were joined by the empowering Helen Grant from Auckland City Council. We went through the Council’s journey shifting their culture of engagement. From how things used to be and what the culture of engagement with their community looks like now.

Behind the scenes, Helen discussed even more about what it took to develop the culture of engagement in Council and navigating the perceptions of risk with using digital tools to engage.

So, we wanted to share Helen’s extra golden nuggets with you in this Bonus Episode!

It may be shorter in length, but it’s certainly not short in impact

In today’s episode you’ll learn * Perseverance and resilience pays off. * How engagement within your organisation informs you about your engagement outside of the organisation. * Reframing and shifting which risks we perceive. * Trusting your community to share their voice can add more value than we may believe. * Some astronomical numbers … the cost and wasted impact when communities aren’t engaged effectively.

Resources mentioned in this episode * Beyond Consultation - Episode 13: Shifting Auckland Council’s Culture of Engagement, with Helen Grant. * Next Generation Engagement Program study - home to Australia’s largest study on engagement and infrastructure delivery. Showing the real cost of not engaging communities.

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Introducing Dr. David Wilson From owning a surf shop to being involved in the $3 billion Provincial Growth Fund Dr. David Wilson has been on quite the economic development journey.

As a surf shop owner, David felt how New Zealand’s small businesses could be at the mercy of bigger social trends. This led him back to university to study social policy and psychology.

And he didn’t stop there.

With a drive to address the deep problems in society and a growing interest in regional economic development he completed a Masters in Public Policy and his Doctorate in Governance and Regional Economic Development.

David’s focus is creating positive change for communities through economic development. You can see this in his recent joint submission to the New Zealand Productivity Commission’s Draft Report on Frontier Firms, with Ifor Ffowcs-Williams and Dr. Dough Galwey.

You can reach out and connect with Dr. David Wilson via LinkedIn.

In today’s episode you’ll learn * Why economic development starts by connecting to the whakapapa (the genealogy and history) of place and people. * The importance of deliberately distributing power to the right level (what David calls the principle of subsidiarity). * Why the regional level (rather than a local or national level) is often most powerful way to think about economic development. * How you can support economic development across a region. * How to encourage collaboration across communities.

Resources mentioned in this episode * Dr. David’s Website - Cities and Regions NZ * Website: World of Learning - Economic Development New Zealand * Report: NZPC’s Draft Report * Article [Press Release]: NZ: Prisoner of an Outdated Paradigm (co-authored with Ifor Ffowcs-Williams and Dr. Doug Galwey) * Full Submission: NZ: Prisoner of an Outdated Paradigm (by Dr. David Wilson, Ifor Ffowcs-Williams and Dr. Doug Galwey) * Inquiry: New Zealand Firms: Reaching for the Frontier (New Zealand Productivity Commission) * Article: Dr. David Wilson: Our Regions need to Diversify * Report: Powering up the Regions, by Dr. David Wilson

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Introducing Kelly Ann McKercher Kelly Ann was partway through facilitating a codesign workshop when the group asked them to sit down and stop facilitating.

Ouch.

But this experience proved to be a pivotal moment.

It showed Kelly Ann the limitations of their design training and kickstarted a journey of personal and professional discovery.

Fast forward a decade and they are now leading the next evolution of codesign. Their recent book Beyond Sticky Notesbrings together a significant body knowledge (along with some personal stories) to showcase what codesign really looks like. (A hint: it’s not about shiny methods and fancy post-it note exercises.)

You can reach out and connect with Kelly Ann via LinkedIn or Email.

In today’s episode you’ll learn * The three M’s of co-design - movement, mindset, and methods * The difference between commercial-driven “design” and socially-driven “codesign” * The four levels of design (at, for, with, led by) * Why you should pay people from their participation in your codesign process (and alternatives to financial payment) * Getting honest with yourself: Are you the right person to be working on the project/in this particular space?

Resources mentioned in this episode * Beyond Sticky Notes Website * Beyond Service Design Website * Beyond Sticky Notes Book * Article: Who cares? A model of care for codesign by Kelly Ann McKercher * Model: The four levels of design

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Introducing Helen Grant A driving force for citizen value and engagement within Auckland Council, Helen has played a lead role in shifting the Council’s culture of community engagement over the last 7+ years.

You’ll find this won’t come as a surprise…. as community engagement has always been a big part of Helen’s life.

From her childhood running amongst local markets where her family were stallholders, to later co-founding the Ponsonby Street Markets where she loved connecting with the local designers and makers. Helen is not one to sit still for long.

Fast forward to now, and you can feel Helen’s excitement about using digital platforms to leverage the wisdom of Auckland’s diverse communities.

You reach out and connect with Helen via LinkedIn.

In today’s episode you’ll learn * What to consider when shifting the entire culture of engagement in your organisation * How to build the connections between online and offline engagement, no matter your organisation’s size * the nitty gritty of what Auckland Council did to embed community engagement across the whole organisation * The potential for participatory budgets to help citizens understand the challenges of your organisation’s work * Plus strap yourself in for an Auckland Council tale about the community politely giving the Council a wake-up call…

Resources mentioned in this episode

Beyond Consultation Episode 11 - Embedding Engagement in Your Organisation’s DNA. Jump back and listen to this episode before diving in with Helen Grant (episode 13).
Report by The Policy Observatory on The Governance of Auckland: 5 years on
Report: OECD ‘Catching the Deliberate Wave’ .

A comparative study that analyses how representative deliberative processes are being used for public decision making around the world. * Budget Engagement (Bang the Table)

A tool for the community to engage and interact with the city’s budget. Empowering residents to explore, learn, and provide feedback on proposed budgets. * Example of Engagement HQ tools in action: Wellington City Council Annual Plan - A Budget Balancing Act * Engagement HQ Platform (Bang the Table) * Social Pinpoint Platform * Auckland City Council’s Thriving Communities Action Plan.

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Introducing Sean Audain Growing up Sean wanted to be a chef. Fortunately for Wellington City, he instead became obsessed with how you can use technology to create thriving cities. He’s all about leveraging data so communities can make smarter and faster decisions.

Today Sean is part of the Innovations team at Wellington City Council.

His approach?

Pushing boundaries of how we can use technology to make data more accessible. Uncovering what’s really driving how a place forms and grows. Supporting a collaborative approach to developing solutions tailored to local issues and opportunities.

Sean’s emerging leadership in this developing field was recognised on a global platform when he won the 2020 Smart Cities Leaders Award for Australia and New Zealand.

You can connect with Sean via LinkedIn where he regularly shares thought-provoking articles and updates.

In today’s episode you’ll learn: * What on earth are smart cities, digital twins, and regulations as code… * How to leverage these high-tech sounding jargon so communities can make the world a better place. * Empowering stories on how Wellington City Council has taken quick action due to data being used in an accessible and interactive way. * A smart and practical suggestion to dig deeper into this type of innovation in a low risk and fun way.

Resources mentioned in this episode * What is a Smart City? - article by Sean on LinkedIn * Towards Digital City Twins - article by Sean on LinkedIn * Engaging in Reality: Practical Experiences in Using VR in Local Government.

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Introducing Paul McGregor and a New Model Beyond Consultation’s very own host, Paul McGregor, is leading us into 2021 with a new transformational model being developed at Business Lab (currently at the prototype stage).

When he's not delving deep into going beyond consultation with incredible guests, Paul is bringing energy through his facilitation and leading exciting projects, establishing models and working with diverse organisations and community.

Paul is an action taker.

He sees something that doesn’t work well. Gathers data. Learns. Makes transformation happen.

Through his consulting work he recognised this continuous pattern of community engagement being treated as an afterthought. Driven by his passion to see organisations having engagement embedded into their DNA, the prototype was born.

Bursting to share feedback on the model?

Connect with Paul via

Related pinned post on LinkedIn
LinkedIn (Direct Message)
Email

In today’s episode you’ll learn: * What this new model is all about and how to implement it into your organisation, in easy-bite size chunks * Why building community capability is essential to the success of future projects. * Stopping at training isn’t enough to build trusting relationships and engagement with your community. * The four core pillars that will enable your organisation to do good community engagement . * The essence of what builds trust… and it isn’t bribing with chocolate. * A real-life, recent, example of what this model looks like when it’s in action.

Resources mentioned in this episode * Prototype of the model on Paul’s LinkedIn * Article: Is low trust hamstringing your organisation?This article builds on the work by Rachel Botsman, author of “Who can you Trust” * Rachel Botman’s talk on The Currency of Trust * Article: Community engagement: Council Partnership Charters by Ruth LePla in NZ Local Government Magazine * Episode 10 - Matthew Crozier (Co-founder of Bang the Table) on Online Community Engagement and using systems * Beginner’s Guide to collaboration and engagement software tools

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Introducing Matthew Crozier After years of working in and around government in both Australia and the UK, Matthew co-founded Bang the Table to apply technology to the problem of connecting people with the issues that affect their lives.

He had seen how the same people would respond to government consultations, time and time again. And he figured that technology must be able to help scale up community engagement.

And he was right.

Since 2007, Bang the Table has connected with millions of people on behalf of hundreds of clients in Australia, New Zealand, the UK, Canada and the USA. And they’re only just getting started.

In today’s episode you’ll learn: * What is a “community engagement platform”? And why would my organisation need one? * How to embed digital engagement across your organisation * The benefits of a “digital-first” engagement approach - which may throw out many of your assumptions about what good engagement looks like * how to avoid the common pitfalls of digital engagement, like managing your data and involving communities who aren’t digitally-savvy * Plus we look in our crystal ball at the future of online community engagement.

Resources mentioned in this episode * The 5 Stages of Online Engagement Practice - article on our website * A Bang the Table blog post on the methodology of digital first engagement * A video explaining 3 approaches to digital first engagement * Matt’s LinkedIn post on The Future of Online Engagement.

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Introducing Atawhai Tibble Atawhai Tibble has the superpower of building partnerships between Māori and the Crown.

He developed a framework for engaging with Māori, called the 5 Wai's framework. It’s all about how you engage with Māori in a way that works for Māori.

Atawhai has been involved in the development of Te Kupenga, Stats NZ's first survey of Māori wellbeing. When the COVID lockdown hit, he played a lead role in an initiative called Manaaki, which was about ensuring iwi had a voice in central government decision-making. And recently he founded Tūhono Māori Network to connect young Māori professionals and more experienced Māori professionals.

You can connect with Atawhai on LinkedIn.

With a cameo from Donelle Manihera

Donelle Manihera is one-half of Kauati Limited - the consulting firm that helps organisations to engage Māori on all things environmental. Her iwi is Ngāi Tahu - and Te Rūnanga Ngāi Tahu a former employer.

We invited her to share the “one thing she wished her clients did” when it came to engaging with Māori, and included this in the show.

Connect with Donelle on LinkedIn or learn more about Kauati Limited here.

In today’s episode you’ll learn about: * The value of a Māori navigator - and where to find them if you don’t know them well yet * How to push back on unrealistic timeframes set by people above you in the food chain * How to use Atawhai’s Five Wai’s Framework to get prepared before you leave the office * The magic and importance of cups of teas * The magic of Atawhai’s storytelling… from marae science (“it’s not rocket science mate”) to a story about a missing cloak.

Resources mentioned on the show * Atawhai’s Article: The 5 Wai’s (Not Why’s) of Māori Engagement * Manaaki initiative - ensuring iwi had a voice in central government decision-making * Te Kupenga, Stats NZ's first survey of Māori wellbeing. * Te Awawhiti: Māori - Crown relations agency * Kauati Limited - the consulting firm that can help you engage Māori on anything environmental.

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Introducing Alicia McKay Alicia McKay is New Zealand’s leading voice in strategy, change and leadership.

Former strategy consultant and facilitator, she has worked with New Zealand and Australia’s most senior leaders in government, business and community as a coach, trainer and mentor.

She’s watched people go around in circles, burn themselves out, and waste their time on bullsht for years - and she’s done all that too. But not anymore.*

Former foster kid, teen parent and all around shit-magnet, Alicia is passionate about supporting others to create meaningful change.

Originally out of the public sector, Alicia has worked with local, regional, state and central government across New Zealand and Australia and has partnered with leaders in transport, infrastructure and engineering, banking, finance, professional services, education, health and social services.

Alicia reaches global audiences online, has a dedicated LinkedIn following and co-hosts popular What's On Your Mind podcast with Digby Scott.

She is the author of two books, From Strategy to Action: A Guide to Getting Sht Done in the Public Sector* with her next book due for publication in May 2021.

You can connect with Alicia on LinkedIn or contact her via email.

In today’s episode you’ll learn about: * The two reasons why we find strategy so hard * Some major legislative reform that might have escaped your attention in the craziness of 2020 * Why most training and professional development is doomed to fail (and what you can do to ensure your investment is worth its while) * How senior leaders can work less and achieve more, through the arena-driven story model.

Resources mentioned on the show * Alicia’s Website where you can signup to her must-read Wednesday Wisdom emails * The Spectrum of Public Participation developed by IAP2 * Information about the Public Sector Act 2020 and what these reforms mean * Alicia’s book From Strategy to Action- fantastic present for anybody working in the public or community sectors.

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Introducing Mike Reid Mike began his career in local government in 1985 with a community advisor role in Christchurch City Council, not anticipating HOW interesting it would be.

Fast forward 35 years, and Mike is New Zealand's leading expert on everything local government.

Mike obviously has a big brain, and you can hear that in this episode. He's quoting studies and reports as if he read them all this morning in preparation for the interview. Mike’s most recent project has been leading the Localism Project with Local Government New Zealand.

You can connect with Mike on LinkedIn or contact him via email.

In today’s episode you’ll learn about: * The positive changes in council diversity over the last few decades (which may surprise you). * The importance of one little word - “by” - in the Local Government Act that sometimes gets forgotten. * What’s happening with the Localism Project which Mike has been leading. Localism is about locals having power and resources to do good things in their community. But in NZ we have the most centralised government finances of any country in the OECD! Mike explains why that's a problem and a pathway for making change. * Plus there’s a story about how rats are bringing a new element of competition to a community in Wellington!

Resources mentioned on the show * Localism NZ website * Article about sisters Pip and Melanie Maynard - highlighting the increase in diversified representation in local government. * Local Government Act 2002 (Rewrite of the 1974 Act) * 2020 Report - Survey of Local Government Candidates * 2018 Report - Saving local democracy: An agenda for the new government * UK Localism Act 2011 * 2012 Report - No Stone Unturned: In pursuit of growth. An Independent report by Lord Heseltine with recommendations on how to increase UK economic growth. * Further reports and papers written by Mike

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Introducing Paul Brown Paul Brown doesn’t shy away from challenging the status quo.

His parents passed on values of kindness and compassion. As he put it…

It’s better to be a big heart than a big shot.

And this led him from a successful corporate career to CEO of Child Fund New Zealand. For the last 15 years he led the rejuvenation of Child Fund, continuously pushing the boundaries on the norm of non-profits.

If you find yourself continuing to hit a wall on taking risks towards social innovation, this episode is for you. Paul shares simple and powerful ways for your organisation to embrace the challenge of change.

You can connect with Paul on LinkedIn or contact him via email.

In today’s episode you’ll learn: * How your organisation can disrupt the status quo to socially innovate and invest. And how to navigate the challenges that come with this. * Why philanthropic, donation-based funding is already on the way out - and how you can move to a new model based on investing for impact. * The secrets that allow non-profits to experiment and push for change. It starts with permission to fail… but there’s more to it than that. * The power of changing your physical location, and how intentionally changing spaces to be part of an innovative ecosystem might allow your organisation to be more impactful.

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Introducing Fran McEwen Fran McEwen isn’t one to do things by half-measures.

With a strong awareness of how she experiences bipolar, she has learned to use this to her advantage. She sets bigger than normal goals. We’re not talking marathons… we’re talking ultramarathons!

Several years ago, Fran saw a gap in young women participating in organised sport. This led her to found Shift, which focuses on empowering the holistic wellbeing of young women. Codesign is at the heart of everything Shift does. The organisation has flourished from a tiny seed initially focused on young women getting physically active to what it is today.

Fran also has a day-job working with Sport New Zealand, where she influences the systems that enable people to get active and stay active.

You can connect with Fran on LinkedIn or feel free to flick her an email.

In today’s episode you’ll learn: * How putting co-design in the centre of your organisation will lead to greater impact (and the importance of letting go of your assumptions). * The value in starting small and setting boundaries when creating a new way to lead innovation. We explore this through the story of the Innovation for Young Women Design Challenge. * How to create safe environments to codesign - especially with young people.

Resources mentioned in this episode * Lifehack’s Youth Wellbeing and Codesign Resources: https://lifehackhq.co/ * Shift the Trend Case Study * Website for Shift * Holistic Health Model - Te Whare Tapa Wha developed by Sir Mason Durie (1984)

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Introducing Jo Cribb Jo Cribb first came across our radar in 2017 when she stepped down as the CEO of the Ministry of Women.

She could have stayed the course with her secure public sector career.

Instead, she leaped into a portfolio career with three key areas of focus:

Increasing gender diversity and inclusion.
Increasing the impact and profile of the NGO sector.
Exploring the future of work.

And she has flourished!

She’s now the (co)author of several books, including the soon-to-be-released Take Our Space, co-authored with Rachel Petero - a guidebook for anybody who has ever seen a female talked over in a meeting, passed over for promotion, or forgotten during a round of pay rises.

Jo is an important thought leader in New Zealand, and her episode is not to be missed. You can connect with her on LinkedIn or learn more at www.jocribb.co.nz.

In today’s episode you’ll learn: * How you can build a career around the areas of change you want to see in the world (and the surprising benefits of taking this path) * How going beyond consultation is often the cost-effective option, even if you may not first think so * What the codesign process actually looked like to develop the National Action Plan for Community Governance (and the reasons this was so effective) * How you can build the case for codesign within your organisation (and yes… the answer involves a little bit of codesign!)

Resources mentioned in this episode * The National Action Plan for Community Governance * Sprinting for Good: Using co-design to collaborate for social impact * Governing for Good, Jo’s report into the governance capability of social sector NGOs * Being Accountable, the readable version of Jo’s doctoral thesis! If you manage central government relationships with not-for-profit services providers, this is for you. It looks at how to improve the relationship between government agencies and not-for-profit service providers. * Jo also writes regularly for Stuff, so keep an eye out for her there.

Plus we highly recommend Jo’s books Don’t Worry About The Robots, co-authored with David Glover - buy now from MightyApe

Take Your Space, co-authored with Rache Petero. Sign up for pre-sales here at Onetree.

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Meet Nazanin Jenkin, Collaborations and Partnerships Strategist Nazanin Jenkin couldn’t believe it when her big idea was featured alongside Jacinda Ardern in Vision Week 2020. But it should come as no surprise to you if you’ve been following her work on cross-sector collaboration.

She is a fierce advocate for moving collaboration beyond a buzzword. And she has the practical experience to back this up. She began her working life in engineering - thrown into the deep end of bringing diverse views together to make change.

Now, Nasi (as her friends call her), knows that complex doesn't have to be complicated - but that takes effort and experience. If you want to build your collaboration muscles, and move collaboration beyond a buzzword, Nasi is your go-to consultant.

You can connect with Nasi on LinkedIn or https://www.nazaninjenkin.com/.

In today’s wide-ranging episode, you’ll learn * The reason why most collaboration is doomed to be nothing but a buzzword (and what you can do to prevent that) * What are the steps you can take to build your collaboration muscles * How and when slowing down can speed you up. * Why it is so important to acknowledge the past when envisioning the future.

Resources mentioned on the show * Nazanin’s article

"Collaboration: From 'buzzword' to reality" published by Apolitical June 2020 * Nasi’s Building the Collaboration Muscle training events * Nasi’s “big idea” shared and featured for Vision Week 2020 * Donella H Meadows and the Systems Change Project

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Meet Zaynel Sushil, Systems Innovator Zaynel Sushil is not one to dream small. He's all about growing the conditions that enable people to live healthy lives. Whether that's in their community, their workplace or their home - he's up for pushing the boundaries to challenge what people think is possible.

In 2019 he stumbled across Business Lab in his search for a savvy systems change facilitator. So we started working with Zaynel and the team from Healthy Families Waitākere to strengthen workplace wellbeing with a whole business community.

He's worked across some impactful projects in food systems, alcohol harm reduction, workplace wellbeing, community development, social enterprise and public policy. You name it really!

You can connect with Zaynel on LinkedIn.

In today’s episode, you’ll learn * What it means to build a 'biodegradable initiative' (and how that change in mindset is powerful) * What systems change actually means (and how you can put it into practice) * Why all this talk of wellbeing might signal some much bigger shifts * Where you can start with systems change (and how you can thrive when the work gets really tough).

Resources mentioned on the show * Zaynel's Facebook wellbeing video series - Chats with Zayn * The Iceberg Model of Systems Thinking * Summative Evaluation of Healthy Families * NZ Treasury's Living Standards Framework * Healthy Families South resources

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Welcome to the first episode of the podcast, recorded in week 2 of the COVID-19 lockdown. It’s a different world out there - one where you cannot walk out the door to engage your communities or collaborate with other organisations.

Today’s guest: David Hammond If you’ve ever wondered what it’s like to be the CEO of a local council, ask David. He’s taken that role in three different local councils, and now focuses his attention on sourcing, selecting and shaping leaders with Sheffield Recruitment. Plus, he’s a Director here at Business Lab.

David has a unique perspective to share on how organisations can shift their service delivery model from one of command and control, to one that devolves more power to those who are directly affected by your work.

You can contact David on LinkedIn or though the Contact Us page on our website.

In today’s episode, you’ll learn * What you need to watch out for as power gets handed to centralised agencies during the COVID lockdown * How you might enable communities to take ownership of their futures * How a story of community empowerment on the Thames Coromandel might support changes in your local community * What are the two key leadership traits you need to thrive in this time of uncertainty.

Resources mentioned on the show * A story of the Thames Coromandel Community Empowerment Model * An explanation of the “Messy Democracy” matrix * Sheffield Recruitment’s selection of resources, including several on leadership in challenging times.

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Welcome to the podcast: an ‘explainer episode’ with host Paul McGregor Are you listening to the Beyond Consultation podcast for the first time? Start here with this short explainer episode with host Paul McGregor.

In it, you’ll learn:

What do we mean by calling the podcast "‘Beyond Consultation’?
What will you learn in the coming episodes?
How can you interact with or contribute to the podcast?

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Beyond Consultation: Recent Episodes

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