Agency Exposed Podcast

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Navigating the promises and pitfalls of the agency-client relationship. Discover strategies for aligning expectations, establishing boundaries, and crafting clarity around goals, metrics, and shared vision. The key to success? Honest communication, mutual understanding, and a relationship built on trust and partnership.

Summary: In this week's episode, the guys delve into the nuances of managing client expectations and optimizing the agency-client relationship. Bob kicks things off by highlighting the disconnect that can occur when clients request general awareness and agencies deliver specific metrics. Ken emphasizes that agencies can only control their expertise, not guaranteed outcomes, since external factors also influence results. Brad shares an example where a client disregarded research recommendations, then blamed the agency when their gut instinct didn't pan out. Bob advocates for an immersion day to align on goals and strategy before engagement. Ken argues that clients should view agencies more like employees, carefully vetting values and vision. He notes that in successful past relationships, mutual philosophy and respect were key. Brad stresses empathy for clients' high-stakes position while hiring agencies. Bob recommends using tools like HumanIK to analyze clients' psychological profiles and craft tailored communication. In closing, the guys encourage honest, ongoing dialogue to establish shared expectations and boundaries. Keeping clients' ultimate aims top of mind, whether fame or fortune, can help agencies LEAD expectations by forging trust, partnership and clarity.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode: 1. Agencies: Guide, Don't Guarantee. Agencies should view themselves as experts and guides, not miracle workers promising guaranteed outcomes. While skilled advisors can absolutely influence results, many external factors also contribute to an agency's impact. Establish reasonable expectations by being upfront about what your expertise can and cannot control. Guide clients to success without overpromising uncontrollable results. 2. Clients: Seek Shared Values, Not Just Skills. When hiring an agency, look beyond just skills to carefully assess if their values, vision and problem-solving philosophy align with yours, as you would with a new employee. Shared principles and mutual respect create the foundation for successful relationships, not just temporary wins. Avoid viewing agencies as interchangeable vendors to be swapped out. Seek out an agency that is a true fit. 3. Both: Define Success in Their Language. Switchtracking wastes time and fractures trust. Make sure you're speaking the same language when defining goals and metrics for success. Agencies: Interpret marketing-speak into practical business aims clients care about. Clients: Articulate your ultimate definitions of victory. Laser focus on shared communication pays dividends.

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes: * Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast * Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys: Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
Bob on Twitter
Bob on Instagram
Bob on Facebook

Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
Brad on Twitter
Brad on Instagram
Brad on Facebook

Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
Ken on Twitter
Ken on Instagram
Ken on Facebook

Show Highlights: [1:42] Brad introduces the topic of managing client expectations around results when working with agencies.

[3:18] Ken discusses how agencies can only control their expertise, not guarantee outcomes.

[5:39] Brad shares an example where a client disregarded research recommendations, then blamed the agency when it didn't work.

[8:20] Ken argues clients should view agencies like employees, carefully vetting values and vision.

[11:37] Brad stresses empathy for clients' high-stakes position while hiring agencies.

[17:47] Brad highlights the difference between what clients say and what they actually want.

[22:11] Ken emphasizes the importance of mutual philosophy and respect in successful agency-client relationships.

[28:55] Bob advocates for defining perfect customer criteria to evaluate fit.

[32:13] Brad discusses the high-risk stakes for clients hiring agencies.

[33:40] Ken compares hiring an agency to hiring an employee.

[38:38] Bob recommends using HumanIK to analyze clients' communication styles.

[41:16] Brad suggests identifying red flags early to navigate new client relationships.

[42:36] Bob reminds listeners to like, subscribe and check out the new 3-camera format on YouTube.

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Learn how to get the highest returns on your time and money investments. The guys provide actionable tips on becoming a "time multiplier," maximizing conference experiences, starting a podcast, and aligning your efforts with principles that create exponential growth. Discover how to build assets that compound over time.

Summary: In this episode, the guys discuss strategies for investing time and money wisely to achieve optimal returns. They talk about the concept of becoming a "time multiplier" by investing time upfront into tasks that eliminate repetitive work and create compounding returns. For example, spending time to automate processes saves ongoing effort in the future. They emphasize the importance of focusing on high-impact activities versus low-value repetitive tasks. Regarding conferences, the guys debate their value, with mixed opinions. Conferences can offer opportunities to connect and gain insights, but often lack real ROI. More curated events like TED provide better educational experiences. Interactive workshops and pre-recorded talks can also enhance conferences. Ultimately, investing in a mastermind group or coach provides higher returns than conferences for many. Starting a podcast is highlighted as a worthwhile investment; it enables access to high-profile individuals and provides a platform to share valuable insights. The guys stress the power of aligning efforts with universal success principles that compound over time, whether in business or personal contexts. Rather than scarcity, adopting an abundance mindset is key. Overall, the episode provides pragmatic tips for becoming a wise steward of time and money, creating assets that continue to pay dividends into the future.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls from this episode: 1. Become a time multiplier. Dramatically increase your productivity by identifying tasks that eliminate repetitive work. Invest time upfront into efforts that create exponential returns in the future. Automating processes is a simple example that saves huge amounts of time long-term. Become a wise steward of your most precious asset. 2. Conferences have mixed value. Conferences offer networking but often lack real ROI compared to other investments like masterminds or coaches. Look for events with genuine educational experiences like TED. Interactive workshops and pre-recorded talks can also enhance conferences. 3. Adopt abundance and success principles. Shift to an abundance mindset regarding time and money. Align efforts with universal success principles that compound over time. Start a podcast to share your own insights. Keep learning and growing through the ups and downs.

About The Guys: Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/kennethott/
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team - https://metacake.com/
Growth Rebel TV - https://mtck.co/YouTube-2Y5GUQ9
Twitter - https://twitter.com/iamkenott?lang=en
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/iamkenott/
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/iamKenOtt/

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

LinkedIn - https://www.linkedin.com/in/bobhutchins-cmo-chief-marketing-officer-growth-hacker-digital-marketing-executive/
Twitter - https://twitter.com/bobhutchins?lang=en
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/bwhutchins/?hl=en
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100039351973426

Linked In - https://www.linkedin.com/in/bradayres/
Anthem Republic - https://www.anthemrepublic.com/
Twitter - https://twitter.com/bradayres?lang=en
Instagram - https://www.instagram.com/therealbradayres/?hl=en
Facebook - https://www.facebook.com/Bradayres

Show Highlights: [5:08] Ken talks about the importance of good times and bad times in life and business for growth.

[7:09] Bob asks the guys about their thoughts and predictions for 2023 and changes they'll make in their businesses.

[7:34] Brad discusses focusing on new business development, evaluating their services, and figuring out how to better serve current clients in the new year.

[11:52] Ken emphasizes the importance of profit and the misconception that high profit is greedy or selfish.

[18:27] Bob discusses changing mindsets and beliefs around profit.

[20:30] Brad applies the adage "shoot for the stars, land on the moon" to goal setting.

[22:22] Ken suggests questions agencies should ask themselves to prompt mindset shifts.

[25:54] Bob talks about becoming a "time multiplier" and investing time to get exponential returns.

[28:50] Brad compares the concept of a time multiplier to compound interest.

[31:13] Brad emphasizes the importance of setting measurable goals and targets.

[33:23] Ken introduces his new show "Growth Time" and the topics and episodes he's covered.

[38:59] Brad asks about the frequency of Ken's podcast and how often guests appear.

[40:49] Ken commits to releasing a book by the end of 2023 based on his podcast.

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Subtitle:

Dive into a world where business insights blend with the rhythm of excellence, as we unpack the essence of the "Messi Effect." Just as a catchy jingle sticks in your mind, on today’s episode, we explore how aligning strengths and impeccable timing can revolutionize success. Join the guys as they discuss how to simplify the complex, fine-tune your abilities, and conduct your own symphony of achievement.

Summary:

In this week's episode, the guys talk about their summer experiences, rest, value, profit, simplicity, and more. Ken shares his family's annual trip to upstate New York, emphasizing the significance of establishing deep familial connections in the Adirondacks. Brad delves into his newfound intentional rhythm for managing tasks and avoiding feeling overwhelmed. Bob describes his Florida vacation and the highlight of his summer – witnessing Lionel Messi's debut in MLS. He extrapolates important life and business lessons from Messi's approach, highlighting the value of understanding one's strengths, staying focused, and delivering when the time is right. The discussion shifts to business matters. Ken outlines positive changes his business has made, underlining the importance of proper pricing and recommending reframing the term "agency" to bring about transformative shifts. Ken introduces a tool called Harpa for analyzing longer texts and segues into the "Messi Effect," advising businesses to focus on their core strengths and remain within their expertise. The conversation touches on the tendency to overlook simple solutions and the value of practicing intentional simplicity. Brad observes that relentless busyness doesn't necessarily drive business growth, while Bob introduces the effort justification bias as it relates to focusing on strengths. Brad advocates for setting aside personal time to enhance creative flow and cognitive capabilities. Bob concludes the episode by stressing the need to balance and nurture both sides of the brain, preventing burnout and cognitive overload by renewing, resting, and reviving mental capacities.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Maximize the Messi Effect. By concentrating on unique strengths, mastering expertise, and delivering value strategically, you can achieve remarkable results. This approach prioritizes focus over dispersion, encouraging alignment with core competencies and seizing timely opportunities for impactful outcomes. “He knows his lane. He knows what he's good at. And he doesn't try to be anything. But when it’s time for him to stand up, he delivers. He doesn't try to be all things and doesn't try to defend. His timing is impeccable. He's always passing, he's unselfish.”
Seek out the simple. In the realm of business, valuing simplicity is a potent yet often overlooked strategy. Embracing simplicity cuts through the noise, unveiling efficient solutions. “It took me a long time to realize that we as humans are conditioned to think that the simple solution is not the right solution…The thing that you are really good at, just do a lot of that thing. So don't jump to the other side.”
Create a rhythm to optimize your abilities. Establishing a consistent routine enhances efficiency and minimizes overwhelm. By aligning actions with energy levels, you unlock cognitive and creative potential. This rhythm becomes a reliable guide, smoothing the path to your goals. Take time to rest, enjoy nature, and use the other half of your brain. “In the creative space, the flow is what gets your juices going, but you have to shut everything out. Allow your brain to maximize its capability. It's soothing and healing.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:35] Brad opens this week’s episode with the idea that the guys should have a jingle for Agency Exposed.

[1:30] Bob asks the guys what they did this summer.

[2:00] Ken talks about his family’s trip to upstate New York to the Adirondacks and the value of putting down deep familial roots. “I've gone every year for my entire life. It's just a special place for us.”

[7:55] Brad tells the guys about his new 1980 Porsche and his trips up to Michigan.

[12:15] Brad also breaks down his new intentional rhythm he’s been creating over the summer. “I feel like this summer I have been able to kind of just create more of a rhythm and it's been really helpful…there's a point where you start feeling overwhelmed, and you really don't know why. You have to stop and take a look at your day and try to figure out how do I do what I need to do, but not feel overwhelmed when I'm doing it?”

[14:07] Bob talks about his vacations to Florida and his highlight of the summer, seeing Lionel Messi play his first MLS game. “There's just something amazing about watching people that are like the highest elite level of their game.”

[18:05] Bob breaks down some important life and business lessons he’s learned from Messi. “He knows his lane. He knows what He's good at. And he doesn't try to be anything. But when it’s time for him to stand up, he delivers. He doesn't try to be all things and doesn't try to defend. His timing is impeccable. He's always passing, he's unselfish.”

[19:44] Bob segues into a new topic by asking the guys about their businesses.

[19:57] Ken mentions some of the positive changes his business has made, the importance of pricing, and why you shouldn’t call yourself an agency. “Change the name to change the game.”

[23:35] Brad talks about AI, its explosive growth, and the potential for all businesses.

[24:11] Bob adds that it’s important to, “stop yourself and go, what can I automate, and what can I make more efficient with this tool?”

[27:18] Ken tells the guys about Harpa, a tool he uses to analyze and understand longer or larger texts.

[29:50] Ken talks about “The Messi Effect”, and how to apply it to your business. “I think it comes down to like doing what you're really, really good at, and just staying in that lane.”

[33:51] Ken discusses the tendency to overlook the simple answer, and the importance of intentionally practicing simplicity. “It took me a long time to realize that we as humans are conditioned to think that the simple solution is not the right solution…The thing that you are really good at, just do a lot of that thing. So don't jump to the other side.”

[37:19] Brad adds on saying, “I've noticed that,I felt like in business that if I wasn't running hard, that wasn't moving the needle in my business. That never gets you anywhere.”

[39:36] Bob mentions an important psychological principle, effort justification bias, and relates it to pursuing the simple; focusing on your strengths and assets.

[41:11] Ken talks about the importance of your time because it’s, “the most valuable thing in your life. And it's the only thing that you have to really leverage into doing something of worth or good.”

[46:51] Brad discusses the value in setting time aside for yourself to prepare and reset in order to maximize your brain’s capabilities. “In the creative space, the flow is what gets your juices going, but you have to shut everything out. Allow your brain to maximize its capability. It's soothing and healing.”

[47:57] Bob closes this week’s episode by talking about the importance of accessing both parts of the brain to prevent burnout or cognitive overload. “You have to renew it, and you have to rest it, and you have to revive it.”

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Subtitle:

Though the title may sound suspiciously too good to be true, trust us, it’s easier than you think to become the best in the world. Today, the guys dive into topics surrounding the challenges of agencies recently as well as commodity agencies, superpowers, being the best, cheapest, or only, profit, mindset, creativity, and more.

Summary:

In this week's episode the guys have a conversation about the challenges faced by agencies in the current business landscape. Bob highlights the conflicting reports he has heard recently: some agencies claim to be thriving, while others are struggling to retain talent. This sets the stage for a discussion on how agencies can create value and improve their offerings. Brad emphasizes the concept of finding a "pure play," a specific area of expertise that distinguishes an agency from being perceived as a generic service provider. He also mentions the business strategy principle of being the only, the best, or the cheapest to succeed. He points out the unique challenges faced by agencies that fall between being the best and the cheapest, often resulting in mediocrity. Switching gears, Bob asks the participants to discuss what agencies can do to prepare for the future and make necessary adjustments. Brad shares his goal of diversifying revenue streams by aiming for 20% of their income to come from their own products in the next five years. He talks about forming alliances with like-minded agencies to create a larger community and broader offerings. Brad expands on his goals, expressing his desire to utilize their products to assist other businesses, engage in acquisitions, and serve clients while also being a significant customer themselves. Ken emphasizes the benefits of launching one's own products, highlighting the opportunities for innovation, balance, and freedom it provides. He stresses the importance of achieving profitability to invest in research and development and to continually showcase innovation. He adds that discovering and leveraging one's superpower, accurately pricing the value offered, and maximizing profit are crucial for building a successful business. delves into the critical factor for project success, attributing it to the mindset of agency leaders and teams, who must commit to achieving success regardless of the obstacles. To wrap up, Bob asks the guys to share the most important focus or action that solopreneurs and agencies of all sizes should undertake for the remainder of the year. Brad emphasizes the need for business owners to take time off and reflect on personal values before returning to run their businesses, as this can provide valuable insights. Ken highlights the significance of making significant investments in one's business, including purchasing items that expand capabilities and raise the bar for service offerings. In closing, Bob encourages agencies to identify their unique strengths, become recognized experts in their respective fields, and dedicate the next six months to honing their expertise in those areas.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Superpower all the way. Embracing your superpower empowers you to create a meaningful impact and achieve success in the competitive business world. It represents your unique strengths, sets you apart from competitors, and positions you as an expert. By focusing on your superpower, you attract the right audience, deliver exceptional value, and enhance your reputation. “It's essential to be good at whatever you do.”
Profit helps everyone, so make sure you’re getting enough. Profit is beneficial to everyone involved in a business. It fuels innovation and growth, enhances employee opportunities, and enables businesses to contribute to the community. Ultimately, a healthy profit ensures long-term sustainability and prosperity, benefiting customers, employees, stakeholders, and the wider community. “Let's say you make a million dollars a year, I believe you should have $300,000 of profit, like 30% or so after you pay yourself. Now you've got $300,000 that you can actually invest in r&d,like starting a product or a service or some area where you become one of your clients. Now you've got number one, an asset, number two, stability, and Number three, something that you can say, hey, I innovate all the time over here.”
Don’t become a commodity. Avoiding commodity status is crucial for businesses. It preserves uniqueness, prevents price competition, and maintains profitability. By emphasizing distinct value and exceptional experiences, businesses can stand out, attract loyal customers, and achieve long-term success in a crowded marketplace. “People have to think creatively about their sources of income, and not just rely on those commodity services, because those are going to constantly go through these waves of being lowered.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[1:31] Bob opens this week’s episode with his perspective on agencies and their struggles right now. “One thing I have noticed in the last month or two is I'm hearing a duality of things. I'm hearing, “business is booming, and it's great.” Or I'm hearing, “we're really struggling, we can't keep people.””

[4:23] Ken talks about things that he and his business are doing to continue to create value and get better at what they do.

[5:23] Brad discusses the idea of finding your pure play, “something specific that you do really well that you’re known for” and how that can help you not be a ‘commodity agency’.

[7:31] Brad brings up the business strategy principle that in order to succeed, you want your business to be the only, the best, or the cheapest; he discusses the challenges that are unique to the agencies that fall between the best and cheapest. “I think agencies are struggling between being the cheapest, and being the best, and they're actually just mediocre.”

[8:10] Ken adds a quote from Dan Kennedy, “there is no strategic advantage to being the second cheapest.”

[9:15] Bob begins a discussion about the pros and cons of being the cheapest on the market by talking about convenience versus value when your business chooses the cheapest strategy. “I don't know that the customers see you as valuable. I think they see you as convenient. So that can be a business model, but I don't think if you're trying to look for value you're going to find that and be the cheapest.”

[13:12] Brad summarizes the pros and cons of choosing to be the cheapest, and highlights that while this strategy is possible, it is incredibly challenging to achieve in the service industry.

[15:38] Bob changes topics, asking the guys to, “talk about what agencies can do as they look down the road into next year, and how do they need to adjust?”

[16:15] Brad talks about how he and his business are pursuing a goal to reach 20% of their revenue from their own products in the next five years as well as an agency community. “So right now, we're in talks with a group of agencies that are like minded, who are looking to do a very similar type of roll up and to understand what that might look like. So we would still act as our own agencies and we would be part of a greater community and a greater offering.”

[17:56] Brad elaborates on his goals, discussing how he wants to use his products to help other businesses, acquisitions, and clients. “make yourself one of your number one clients.”

[25:15] Ken talks about the balance, opportunities, and freedom to innovate that launching your own products can provide. “I think it's essential to be good at whatever you do and to have your own place where you can fail and play with things.”

[26:46] Ken discusses the wide reaching benefits of developing your own products as well as the significance of profit. “Let's say you make a million dollars a year, I believe you should have $300,000 of profit, like 30% or so after you pay yourself. Now you've got $300,000 that you can actually invest in r&d,like starting a product or a service or some area where you become one of your clients. Now you've got number one, an asset, number two, stability, and Number three, something that you can say, hey, I innovate all the time over here.”

[29:55] Bob talks about the way to avoid lowering prices in commodities. “You guys are talking about the way forward; I think people have to think creatively about their sources of income, and not just rely on those commodity services, because those are going to constantly go through these waves of being lowered.”

[32:31] Ken says that being aware of your superpower, leveraging it to you and your client’s advantage, and pricing your value accurately to create a maximized profit is the best way to create the best version of your business. “But you have to find the superpower. And then you have to figure out your cost basis. And then you have to add your profit… I talk to a lot of agency owners about this, and a lot of times I come up against a very limiting belief of like, “oh, we cannot do that. No one does that. It's wrong to do that.” All this stuff, right? And they're suffering in this really poor business model.”

[36:46] Ken dives deep into a discussion about the determining factor in a project’s success, the client’s mindset, and relates it to pricing. “It turns out, the determining factor in success is simply the person who's like the leader, or the team, basically saying we will be successful one way or another. That factor is critical. The premium price helps sift out all the people that are not.”

[40:14] Bob asks the guys, “What is the one thing that every solopreneur, small agency, and medium and large agency needs to be thinking about and or doing for the rest of this year?”

[40:34] Brad says that all business owners need to take time off. “You need to go and take a day and not deal with the business. Go away, take a walk, and think about life and what you're about, personally, and what is meaningful to you personally, and then go back and run your business. It will help, trust me.”

[41:13] Ken mentions the importance of making a significant investment in your business. “Buy something expensive that scares you, that is an investment, but also something that expands your level. You can't sell someone something for $100,000 If you don't buy something for $100,000.”

[41:46] Bob closes out by saying, “find out what your only is, become the obvious expert, and work on that for the next six months.”

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Subtitle:

It’s a freestyle Friday so you know some secrets to success are about to be dropped. The guys dive deep into the importance of building a business that serves you first, the secret recipe to the foundation of a successful business, insightful books and psychological principles, the idea of practitioners v.s. owners, and more on this exciting episode!

Summary:

This week’s episode is a freestyle Friday! The guys discuss their recent endeavors. Ken shares that he is actively pursuing his vision and leveraging his abilities to align his life and business with what he truly desires. He specifically talks about the challenges of pursuing personal vision in a service-oriented business, where one can often prioritize clients' needs over their own aspirations. Brad contributes to the conversation by highlighting how personal vision and desires change over time. He explains that as individuals age, their businesses may no longer fulfill them, prompting them to question their motivations and purpose. Bob adds to the discussion by emphasizing the roles of self-awareness and crystallized intelligence in shaping one's interests and vision. He suggests that these factors play a significant role in the shift of personal goals and interests. Ken takes the conversation further by discussing the notion of a midlife crisis, suggesting that individuals may feel trapped in what they have built, leading to a sense of confinement and dissatisfaction. He emphasizes the importance of ensuring that one's business serves them first, similar to the concept of putting on your own oxygen mask before assisting others. The idea of having a calling or mission in life is introduced by Ken, who believes that certain talents within him need to be expressed better. He asserts that if his business does not align with this calling, it is not serving him adequately. The guys delve into the foundation and core of a business, debating whether it is based on people, the balance sheet, the idea, or the vision. They explore the distinction between being business practitioners and being business owners who possess a broader understanding of business principles and can apply them across different industries. They also discuss the significance of values, mission, and culture in establishing a strong foundation for a business. Bob argues that lacking this foundation can lead to becoming enslaved by the business rather than serving a greater cause. Ken introduces the book "Who Moved My Cheese," drawing psychological principles from it to emphasize the importance of being intentional about having a business that serves oneself first in order to provide better service to clients. The conversation touches upon the idea that true enjoyment cannot be derived from tasks performed solely for survival or necessity. They discuss the importance of investing in culture and foundational principles for long-term success and fulfillment. Each participant reflects on their personal visions, plans, and goals. Ken acknowledges that he is still in pursuit of his desired reality, emphasizing the need to leverage one's talents in the right ways. Brad shares his recent realization about the importance of contentment and being present in the journey. Bob concludes the conversation by emphasizing that individuals are doing their best with the resources they have and that a shift in internal perspective is necessary to move forward effectively.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Don’t build a prison; build a business that serves you first. In entrepreneurship, prioritize building a business that serves you first, avoiding the creation of a prison. By aligning your business with your personal aspirations and values, you empower yourself to thrive and achieve both professional success and personal fulfillment. “If my business does not serve me first, how could I possibly be healthy enough to serve you? It's the oxygen mask concept.”
Strong culture + strong values + a strategy = the foundation of a healthy and successful business. A healthy and successful business is grounded in practical elements that form its foundation. Well-defined values serve as guiding principles, fostering trust among employees, customers, and partners, creating a strong culture grounded in the business’s values. A carefully crafted strategy aligns goals, resources, and actions, providing a roadmap for growth, competitive advantage, and long-term success in the ever-changing business landscape. “If you don't have that strong foundation of this is our vision and this is the mission of why we exist, you're gonna fall into that eventually, and you become a slave to it versus I'm serving a bigger cause bigger than myself.”
Measure backwards, be present and content, and do your best. Measuring backwards, being present and content, and doing our best with what we know are key principles for a fulfilling and successful business. These are practical ways to prevent being trapped by your business, make it work for you, and begin on the path to its best version. “We only see the world as we are internally. And until we shift our own internal perspective, however that happens, we’re really doing the best we can and we believe that we’re doing what is right to get us where we need to go.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[1:13] Bob suggests that the guys do a freestyle Friday, beginning a conversation about what the guys have been working on recently.

[1:36] Ken talks about how he’s pursuing his vision of where he needs to be, leveraging his abilities better, and doing what he wants to be doing in life and business.

[3:54] Ken continues to talk about how to pursue your vision for yourself in a service business and the accompanying challenges. “Because the nature of a service business is to get clients and build things and serve them and do things for other people. You might end up doing a bunch of things for the people and never doing the things that you wanted to.”

[5:35] Brad discusses how your vision for yourself and what you want to be doing changes over time. “You get to a point in your age where your business no longer fulfills anymore. And then you have to go through a process of understanding ‘why do I do what I do?’”

[8:06] Bob talks about the roles of self awareness and crystallized intelligence and how they impact the shift of interest and vision.

[10:32] Ken concludes that this shift often results in the creation of a midlife crisis. He also discusses the truth of the idea that you become trapped inside what you build. “I imagine those midlife crisis moments are because you feel trapped, and you just at some point break… You literally build your own prison. And that's a scary feeling.”

[15:14] Ken segues into the way to break out of this prison; make sure it serves you first. “If my business does not serve me first, how could I possibly be healthy enough to serve you? It's the oxygen mask concept.”

[15:55] Ken says that, “I believe I have a calling in life. And I can't describe it, but there are certain talents inside of me that I feel need to be expressed better. And I can't describe it any other way than a calling or a mission. And so if my business is not doing that it's not serving me.”

[18:16] Brad asks the guys what they think their business is, at its foundation and core. Essentially, is your business the people, balance sheet, idea, vision, etc?

[21:48] Ken talks about the idea that many agency owners are business practitioners versus owners (they are serving people and are good at their craft). He argues that a business owner is a master of the principles of business and can apply those principles in any type of business. “Principles are principles, because they're universal. And so a business needs to make a certain number of bounded profit, whether it's an agency or it's Verizon.”

[22:28] Bob discusses the importance of values, mission, and culture, and how having a strong foundation of these things prevents you from building your own prison. “If you don't have that strong foundation of this is our vision and this is the mission of why we exist, you're gonna fall into that eventually, and you become a slave to it versus I'm serving a bigger cause bigger than myself. I think that at its core, that's what's really missing in people's lives.”

[28:13] Ken begins a conversation about a book called, Who Moved My Cheese, and applies the psychological principles discussed in it to being intentional that your business serves you first so that you can better serve your clients.

[30:08] Ken talks about the idea that, “you will not enjoy anything you have to do. So if you're in a business where you have to do this thing to survive, you have to serve this client this way just to survive. That's never going to be the best end result for you or the customer.”

[31:48] Bob tells a story about a new client of his and how this client has prioritized investing into his foundational principles, values, and culture, as well as his strategy and app and how that will set his business up to serve him first, destroying the prison. “I have never seen a company that has invested in culture successfully that has not gone on to be very successful, and very fulfilling for the people who work in it.”

[35:44] Brad asks the guys where they feel like they are at in their personal visions, plans, and goals for themselves.

[37:25] Ken talks about his perspective on where he’s at in his vision. “I try to be intentional. I've always had a desire to pursue a certain type of reality. But I don't believe that I'm fully fulfilling it right now. But I don't think that that's a failure. I think it's a pursuit. When it feels like I'm not acting on something that I should, it's like, I've got this you know, all star baseball arm, but I'm just like I'll do that in 10 years. There's this feeling of like, um, you're not leveraging you're not really like living out the talents that you have in the right ways and pursuing them.” He also talks about a book, The Gap in the Game, and the idea of measuring backwards versus comparing yourself against an ideal.

[43:27] Brad discusses his journey in realizing the importance of contentment. “What I've learned recently is that I'll never be where I want to be. So I have to understand that I have to be present, and I have to be content without being there.”

[45:14] Bob closes with his thoughts on where he’s at and the idea that most people are doing the best they can with what they have. “We only see the world as we are internally. And until we shift our own internal perspective, however that happens, we’re really doing the best we can and we believe that we’re doing what is right to get us where we need to go.”

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Subtitle:

Unlocking the Secrets to Success: Discover the transformative power of creativity, differentiation, and strategic pricing as the guys delve deeper into the concept of "10x-ing" prices. From the link between creativity and income generation to the art of effective communication and leveraging unique labels, this episode unveils the keys to delivering exceptional value and achieving unparalleled success in business. Get ready to revolutionize your approach and create happier, more satisfied customers along the way. The guys break down the role of creativity, AI, the power of labels, time, your unique superpower, and more on this week’s episode.

Summary:

In this episode, Bob starts by reviewing the previous discussion about the importance of "10x-ing" prices and reveals that they will explore this concept further. Ken connects creativity to price increases, referencing the book "The Science of Getting Rich" and emphasizing creativity as a means to generate income. Bob adds to this by mentioning a study by the World Economic Forum, highlighting creative thinking as the top skill needed in the future. Brad explores the role of AI in creativity, concluding that human creativity and experience are necessary to fine-tune AI-generated outputs. Bob asks the guys if they believe that raising prices significantly while offering the same services is feasible. Ken discusses the power of labels, highlighting the need to differentiate oneself and avoid being categorized based on common expectations. The importance of finding one's superpower and leveraging it for differentiation, creativity, and increased prices is emphasized. Ken shares insights on increasing prices without increasing expenses, particularly in terms of time. Brad explains how his company implements the "10x" method by assessing client satisfaction and excitement rankings. Bob differentiates himself by presenting a larger scope of services and leading with his expertise and experience. Ken adds to this by emphasizing the importance of effective communication of a unique label and highlighting how businesses can provide value in distinct ways. The uncertainty in the business world and economy is discussed in relation to raising prices, with Ken noting that money is infinite while time is finite. Brad discusses leveraging opportunities during recessions and relates them to raising prices. Ken provides tips for preparing for price increases, including believing in their possibility and necessity, and ensuring that costs remain a fraction of the price charged. Bob concludes by emphasizing that charging more money enables businesses to deliver exceptional results and create happier customers. Overall, the discussion revolves around the importance of creativity, differentiation, effective communication, and the benefits of raising prices in delivering exceptional value and success in business.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Embrace the boundless potential of creativity. Unlock the transformative power of creativity and witness its profound impact on business success. According to the renowned World Economic Forum, creative thinking reigns as the foremost skill crucial for the coming years, emphasizing the immense value of nurturing and embracing creativity in the pursuit of innovation and growth. By cultivating a culture of creative thinking, businesses can develop groundbreaking solutions, confidently raise prices, and achieve unprecedented levels of success. “Creativity is how you get anything. It's an unlimited well to generate income. I would venture to say that thinking about how to 10x your prices is an example of using creativity, not anything else, to generate more income.”
Widen your label scope. The guys emphasize the power of labels and the importance of defining a unique identity that sets your business apart from competitors. By doing so, you can attract the right clientele and charge higher prices. Stand out and thrive in a competitive marketplace by leveraging the value of labels and differentiation. “Just calling yourself an agency puts you into a certain category where certain people expect certain types of things and certain prices and certain ways of engaging with you, and that may not be advantageous to you.”
Expensive = higher quality = a happy customer and business owner. By charging more, businesses can not only allocate resources to deliver exceptional results but also invest in continuous improvement, ensuring long-term success and customer loyalty. Experience the positive impact of pricing strategies that prioritize quality and customer satisfaction. “People are happier when you charge them more money, because it gives you the resources to do an amazing job. That's why you 10x so you can be the best that you can be. And they can be the happiest customers on the other end.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[2:08] Bob kicks off this week’s episode by reviewing the discussion last episode about the importance of 10x your prices, and reveals that they will be diving deeper into this idea this episode.

[3:15] Ken makes the connection between creativity and price increases and discusses a book he read recently, “The Science of Getting Rich”, and how it links them.”This book was written in the 20s. It's basically all about creativity and how creativity is how you get anything. It's an unlimited well to generate income. I would venture to say that thinking about how to 10x your prices is an example of using creativity, not anything else, to generate more income.”

[5:05] Bob adds to Ken’s discussion on creativity by mentioning a study done by the World Economic Forum. “One of the graphs that caught my eye said, ‘What would you rank in priority, the top skills that are going to be in demand and needed in the next several years?’ And so you're thinking, you know, all kinds of logical perspectives, but the number one thing that they said is going to be needed is creative thinking.”

[7:50] Brad explores the idea of AI and creativity, and comes to the conclusion that although AI is an incredible tool, it’s much like an unpaid intern; at the end of the day, it gives you the rough basis and you use human creativity and experience to fine tune it.“You don't give the interns work to a client, unless you look over it, right, tweak it, change it.”

[9:51] Bob asks the guys to unpack the idea that, “you can't offer the same services and then raise your prices considerably and call it the same thing.”

[11:49] Ken talks about the power of labels, and goes back to the roots of running a business; building wealth, and being fulfilled. “Just calling yourself an agency puts you into a certain category where certain people expect certain types of things and certain prices and certain ways of engaging with you, and that may not be advantageous to you.”

[16:13] Bob touches on the importance of finding your superpower and the role that can play in labeling yourself, creativity, and increasing your prices.

[18:46] Ken wraps up the chat about labels with some insight on increasing your prices without increasing your expenses; especially in time. “The more you talk about things in the labels that are commodities, the less you will be able to do anything about changing your income, your pricing your profit, and you won't be able to decide that.”

[22:52] Brad dives into some of the ways he and his company have been implementing the 10x method and offers some insight. “For us, we have to look at what specific projects or what type of work we can do… The key is for you to have a satisfaction/excitement ranking on your client. You have to kind of diagnose every one of your customers… So maybe the diagnosis is we can't 10x anything on this customer. But we can get them from a satisfaction/excitement ranking of two to a 10.”

[26:36] Bob discusses how he differentiates himself from competitors and utilizes a larger perspective to do so. “One of the ways that I've differentiated myself is to try to present the bigger scope of what I'm providing versus the individual things. And to lead with that. And like you said, it's easier for me because I'm not going back to a bunch of previous clients necessarily. So the way that I do that, is say, I'm an executive growth hacker that looks at things through the lens of behavioral science and psychology. So if you need an executive, ie high level person that understands how to grow your business in the digital context. Secondly, I say, I can serve as a fractional CMO. I'm approaching it from a bigger perspective of saying, You're not hiring me to do these things, you're hiring me for my experience.”

[29:02] Ken adds to Bob’s thoughts and connects it back to the power of labeling and effective ways of communicating your unique label. “Nike is known for what they’re known for and that’s why they charge what they charge. I would ask the question, you could probably do the exact same thing, just in a different way; like you're known for certain things that no one else is. You can't be an agency. You're not a consultant. You're Bob Hutchins. It's very different. Like, you may do consulting, you may do some agency like work, and you do some non agency stuff. We deliver these types of results. We've had this type of experience, we had this type of success. If you like this, this is who you’re looking for.”

[32:10] Bob asks the guys for their thoughts on raising prices in light of the uncertainty in the business world and economy.

[33:39] Ken says, “Money is infinite; time is finite.”

[34:32] Brad discusses some of the leveraging opportunities that arise during a recession and relates them to raising prices.

[35:58] Ken mentions some important tips to help as you prepare for price increases in uncertain times. “Believe that it's possible, believe that it's necessary, believe that your cost needs to be no more than 1/5 of the price that you cha36:08rge. If your business isn't serving you, well, you're not profiting from it appropriately, then nothing else works; you have to fix that.”

[39:23] Bob wraps up with some final thoughts on 10x your price. “People are happier when you charge them more money, because it gives you the resources to do an amazing job. That's why you 10x so you can be the best that you can be. And they can be the happiest customers on the other end.”

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Subtitle:

Take a moment to think about any famous, successful company. (Apple, Tesla, Google, Facebook, etc). One thing that most people think about when they think about a successful company is profit; how much money do they make, and how do so many people pay so much money for their products? We definitely don’t have a simple solution, but instead, a few ways you can break out of your box and increase your prices and therefore profits. We break down mindset, communication, commodities and how to not be one, defining your unique strengths, strategy, and more on this week’s episode!

Summary:

In the episode, the guys discuss the importance of raising prices in a business, particularly during times of economic instability. They acknowledge that many business owners may feel hesitant to increase prices, but argue that it's necessary for sustainable growth and profitability. One of the key points the guys make is the importance of understanding the mindset of the customer. Brad emphasizes the need to communicate the value that a business provides to its customers, which can help support higher prices. Ken stresses the importance of not becoming a commodity and argues that higher prices benefit all parties involved, as it ensures that businesses are able to provide quality service and remain sustainable over the long term. Bob offers a few questions that can help business owners focus on promoting the human elements of their work and expertise, such as "What differentiates me as a person?" and "What makes me an expert in these areas?" He also encourages business owners to work on their attitudes of scarcity and abundance mindsets, which can influence their perceived ability to raise prices. Ken advises business owners to focus on their unique strengths and passions and use those to differentiate themselves from competitors. He suggests taking away the label "agency" from a business and finding ways to break out of the box to become more unique. Bob talks about the importance of recognizing that not every prospective client is a good fit for a business and that it's important to not devalue oneself for the sake of gaining clients who are unwilling to pay what one's worth. Throughout the episode, the guys offer actionable advice and strategies that can help business owners raise their prices successfully. They also highlight the importance of mindset and attitude in achieving this goal, as well as the need to differentiate oneself from competitors and communicate the value that a business provides to its customers.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Mindset matters. Mindset is crucial for business owners when it comes to increasing prices. Having a positive and abundant mindset can help communicate the value provided to customers and confidently set prices that reflect that value. Conversely, a scarcity mindset can lead to undervaluing work and hurting the bottom line. By recognizing and working on mindset, business owners can achieve their goals for growth and profitability. “I would challenge you to work on your own attitudes of scarcity, and abundance mindsets. That's really at the heart of being able to raise prices regularly without pain and without struggle.”
Change the name to change the game. Labeling a business as an agency can be limiting for increasing prices, as it connotes a commoditized service. By shifting away from this label and focusing on unique value propositions, businesses can avoid competing solely on price and differentiate themselves in the marketplace. This can lead to increased profitability and long-term success. “I think you immediately limit yourself, and you call yourself an agency or a marketing agency or an advertiser, whatever it is website development, because it's commoditized. You got to change the name to change the game.”
Knowledge, strategy, attribution. Focusing on knowledge, strategy, and attribution can allow businesses to create higher prices. It allows them to communicate their value, optimize resource allocation, measure ROI, and position themselves as valuable partners. This can result in increased revenue and profitability. “There's three things in my opinion that I've observed, that you need to focus on that will make you valuable; it's knowledge, strategy, and attribution.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:59] Ken opens this week’s episode by introducing the topic, increasing your prices.

[2:17] Bob asks important questions in light of recent economic instability. “How do you raise prices? How often? And how do you do it?”

[3:34] Brad discusses the importance of understanding the mindset of the customer and communicating value to them.

[4:34] Ken talks about the importance of not becoming a commodity, and how higher prices benefit all parties involved. “It's a perpetual spin to the bottom, I think it's bad for everybody. you can't be a commodity.”

[8:00] Bob says that it’s crucial to focus on and promote the human elements versus technology and offers some questions to help your business get there. “I think people buy expertise. What differentiates me as a person? Why am I unique? And why am I an expert in these areas? And why can I be a fit for you and what your needs are?”

[9:29] Ken discusses the importance of public perception. “The way you don't be a commodity is you become the only option.”

[13:43] Brad talks about an element of customer empathy that sets his business apart from others and the success they’ve seen from it.

[15:46] Ken discusses the role that founders and their values play in becoming ‘the only one’. “My advice to myself, is to lean in, figure out what it is that you love, and what you're better at than anyone in the world.”

[17:28] Bob brings up the importance of mindset and attitude and how they can influence your ability to increase your prices. “I would challenge you to work on your own attitudes of scarcity, and abundance mindsets. That's really at the heart of being able to raise prices regularly without pain and without struggle.”

[18:34] Ken breaks down some important questions to break out of the scarcity mindset.

[21:19] Bob talks about the importance of two ways you can narrow down; you as a person and your niche.

[24:32] Ken discusses the value in taking away the label “agency” from your business and how that will help you break out of the box and become unique. “I would propose that the biggest barrier to raising prices and to charging more is yourself… you need to charge more and not do more.”

[27:29] Bob reveals and dives deep into three things that will make you more valuable. “There's three things in my opinion that I've observed, that you need to focus on that will make you valuable; it's knowledge, strategy, and attribution.”

[30:22] Ken dives deep into the value behind not calling yourself an agency; it only creates limits for your business. “I think you immediately limit yourself, and you call yourself an agency or a marketing agency or an advertiser, whatever it is website development, because it's commoditized. You got to change the name to change the game.”

[32:37] Ken suggests a mental exercise and series of questions to help your business break out of the mental limitations holding you back from increasing your prices.

[35:16] Bob talks about the importance of recognizing that not every prospective client that walks through your door should be a client you serve. “I'm not going to devalue myself for the sake of getting this immediate, quick dollar, when they're not willing to pay what I'm worth.”

[37:03] Ken wraps up by discussing a quote he heard. “Once someone realizes that you need them, they realize that they don't need you.”

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Subtitle:

When you think about creativity, you typically think of painting, poetry, or some other art form. The truth is, creativity is in everything; whether it’s a design, a color scheme, or a plan of action. In business, creativity can be your secret weapon to success. The hard part is convincing others that it’s a weapon, not a hindrance. In this episode, we break down practical ways to market creative as well as the importance of communication, conviction, the true meaning of a brand, breaking stereotypes, and more in this week’s episode.

Summary:

In this episode, the guys delve into the topic of creativity in the workplace and explore its importance and practical value in business. Bob opens the discussion by asking whether being creative makes one a better business person and whether creativity is essential for success. Ken responds by discussing the importance of leveraging creativity and how it can create value. He breaks down practical ways to use creativity to drive business elements and highlights its power in generating practical results. Brad joins the conversation by emphasizing the true meaning of a brand, which is not just a logo or brand colors, but a promise. He explains how creativity can elevate and express that promise, emphasizing the importance of backing up the brand with logistics, practical elements, and product execution. Bob adds to this by stressing that without the practical elements to back up the brand, it loses its value. The guys then discuss how creativity can impact and improve areas of our lives on a personal level. They talk about the importance of breaking down the existing stereotypes about creativity and shifting one's mindset to embrace creativity as a valuable skill. They emphasize that creativity is not limited to artistic endeavors but can be applied in all aspects of life, including problem-solving and decision-making. The conversation then shifts to marketing creative services effectively. Ken asks the guys if they have any strategies or thoughts on how to do so. Bob answers by emphasizing the importance of communication and interpreting branding, marketing, and strategy in a language that the client can understand. Brad adds to this by discussing the importance of understanding the customer journey and how a brand makes them feel. The guys also discuss the importance of backing up a rebrand with fulfilled promises and how communicating the value of creativity is crucial in effectively marketing creative services. They acknowledge the challenges of marketing creative services and stress the importance of communicating their value. In conclusion, the guys close with a quote by Maya Angelou, "people don't remember what you said or what you did. They remember how you made them feel." This quote highlights the importance of the emotional impact that creativity can have and how it can leave a lasting impression. Overall, the episode emphasizes the practical value of creativity in business, personal growth, and marketing creative services effectively.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Keep your promises. Keeping your promise is crucial in building a successful brand. If your brand promise is not backed up with logistics and practical elements, then it has no value at all. Failing to deliver on your promise can damage your reputation, reduce customer loyalty, and ultimately harm your bottom line. It's crucial to ensure that you're consistently delivering on your brand promise by aligning your creative strategy with practical elements and focusing on delivering an excellent customer experience. “Your brand is not your logo, it's not your brand colors. A brand is a promise. A promise is elevated and expressed through creativity.”
Communicate value. Communicating value is crucial when marketing creative services. To effectively communicate value, focus on the client's issues and frame them in a way that they'll understand. By approaching marketing from a communication perspective and using common language, you can build trust and establish a level playing field. It's also important to understand your customers' journey and tailor your messaging to resonate with them. Ultimately, focus on being clear, concise, and compelling in communicating the benefits of your creative services. “I always approach it from a communication perspective. Because most people understand that you're kind of on a level playing field. And if you can reinterpret branding, marketing, strategy, all of that and put it into common language of communication, I think you'd then you're on that's how you can sell that a lot better.”
Find your conviction. Finding conviction is crucial in the creative industry. It involves having a deep belief in your creative abilities and the value of your work. To find your conviction, collaborate with like-minded individuals, define your brand, and be true to your values. Trusting your instincts, taking risks, and creating authentic work can lead to greater success and fulfillment. “You have to have really strong conviction as a creator.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[1:51] Bob opens this week’s episode by discussing the topic for this week, creativity’s role in the workplace and breaking the existing stereotypes about creativity. “Does being creative make you a better busin353ess person? And then I would take it a step further and say, Does being creative and learning how to think creatively? Is it essential for success?”

[4:08] Ken talks about the importance of leveraging creativity and the value it can create.

[5:32] Ken breaks down some of the ways you can practically leverage creativity. “That's why I think creativity is so powerful; it’s so practical, because when leveraged correctly, it actually drives practical business elements.”

[7:41] Brad discusses what a brand actually is. “Your brand is not your logo, it's not your brand colors. A brand is a promise. A promise is elevated and expressed through creativity.”

[12:13] Bob talks about the importance of backing up your brand with logistics, practical elements, and your creative. “If it's not backed up with the logistics and the practical side and the product and how that product is executed, then the brand has no value at all.”

[14:49] Bob begins a new discussion, talking about the practical and personal ways creativity can impact and improve areas of our lives.

[21:07] Bob talks about the importance of breaking down the believed stereotypes about creativity and shifting your mindset. “There's real value in going, I don't have to just do it this one way. That's the value that people come and pay us for.”

[24:44] Ken discusses the importance of identifying your superpower and advantages in the market.

[26:18] Brad talks about the power of strong conviction in creative, product, and brand. “You have to have really strong conviction as a creator.”

[28:18] Ken asks the guys if they have any strategies or thoughts on how to effectively market creative services.

[29:55] Bob answers and discusses the importance of communicating the client’s issue to them in a way they’ll understand. Often miscommunication is the issue, so looking at the application of creative services with that lens is an effective way to market them. “I always approach it from a communication perspective. Because most people understand that you're kind of on a level playing field. And if you can reinterpret branding, marketing, strategy, all of that and put it into common language of communication, I think you'd then you're on that's how you can sell that a lot better.”

[32:21] Brad talks about the importance of understanding the journey of the customers and how does your brand make them feel?

[35:31] Brad discusses the importance of backing up a rebrand with fulfilled promises. “But if you reinvent yourself, it's not just changing a logo; that was the last thing we did. They had to change and make a promise that they had to organizationally keep.”

[38:51] Ken talks about the challenges of effectively marketing creative and the importance of communicating its value. “In a marketing problem, there are very few things that are not creative related.”

[42:03] Brad closes with a Maya Angelou quote, “people don't remember what you said or what you did. They remember how you made them feel.”

View Details

Subtitle:

As a kid, you were probably taught that creativity is something only for “artsy kids” and that it was “unique” but it wasn’t going to help you make money. In this week’s episode, we challenge that idea by diving into the importance of creativity in today’s business world, and how your creativity is the key to success. We talk about the stigma surrounding creativity, innovation, curiosity, mindset, phases of life, and more on this week’s episode!

Summary:

In this week’s episode, the guys discuss creativity and its relevance in the constantly changing world of 2023. They acknowledge that people are going through their own life changes, including shifting their businesses, experiencing layoffs, and adapting to hybrid or remote work environments, and everything seems to be a little bit upside down. They suggest that this is a great and necessary time to think a little bit differently, and to leverage creativity to find new and better solutions to problems. The guys then break down the stigma surrounding creativity, which is sometimes seen as a non-income driver. However, they argue that creativity is required to be successful at anything, and that it is essential for problem-solving and achieving goals. They emphasize that creativity is not just for creativity's sake, but rather that it is a skill that can be harnessed to create value for businesses and individuals alike. The guys discuss the importance of recognizing an agency's unique perspective and role in creating value for clients. They also touch on the idea that creativity sets humans apart from other mammals, as it allows us to imagine something and then bring it to life. The guys then explore the mindset of successful business people, who have a greater fear of not achieving their ideas than the fear of failing. They emphasize that failure is the key to growth and success, and that it is important to learn from failures and use that wisdom to have a grateful mindset. Throughout the episode, the guys emphasize the importance of being curious and having a pliable mind in order to be creative. They discuss the balance between discipline and creativity, and suggest that removing the word "impossible" from one's vocabulary can help to expand creative possibilities. The guys also touch on the cyclical nature of phases in life, and the importance of realizing that life and career exist in phases rather than one big chunk. They discuss the benefits and dangers of past, present, and future mindsets, and suggest that understanding where one spends their thoughts and time can help them to move forward in a positive direction. The guys conclude by emphasizing the importance of innovation and always looking for ways to improve. They suggest that creativity looks at order, blows it up, and then puts it back together in something new, better, more creative, and more functional. They use an analogy to highlight the importance of staying innovative and continuing to look for new and better ways to do things. Overall, this podcast episode provides valuable insights into the importance of creativity and how it can be leveraged to create value in a changing world. It encourages listeners to be curious, embrace failure, and stay innovative in order to find new and better solutions to problems.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Be curious. Curiosity is essential for creativity. It drives exploration and innovation by encouraging individuals to ask questions, challenge assumptions, and seek out new experiences. Without curiosity, creativity can become stagnant, leading to tired ideas and approaches. Embracing curiosity unlocks new possibilities for growth and innovation. “Creativity is required to be successful at anything. when there's a problem, you have to have the ability to be creative and get around it.”
Embrace failure. Embracing failure is crucial for creativity. It enables experimentation, risk-taking, and learning from mistakes. Fear of failure can stifle creativity and limit innovation. By embracing failure, individuals can push boundaries and adapt to challenges, leading to greater resilience and growth. Failure is an opportunity for learning and growth, unlocking creativity's full potential. “Be able to learn that wisdom to be grateful, and say, I would have never learned that had I not failed.”
Break the stigma. Breaking the stigma surrounding creativity is crucial as it enables individuals and organizations to recognize and utilize the potential of creative thinking. It allows individuals to approach problems with a fresh perspective, leads to increased productivity and innovation, and dispels the notion that art and creativity are not viable career paths. However, breaking the stigma requires a shift in mindset, embracing failure as part of the creative process, and prioritizing experimentation and risk-taking. Ultimately, breaking the stigma surrounding creativity unlocks the full potential of human imagination and innovation. “I want to dispel the myth that you’re not creative. As human beings, we have that so we can solve problems and express deeper truths; it is so that we can reframe things in our mind.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[1:30] Bob opens this episode by discussing creativity and its relevance. “In 2023, the world has changed and is changing, it's a little bit crazy out there. And we have friends who are going through their own life changes, whether it's shifting their business, maybe going through some layoffs, their leadership styles have changed because people are hybrid or remote, and everything's a little bit upside down. It's a great and necessary time to think a little bit differently.”

[3:14] Ken discusses some of the stigma surrounding creativity. “We're kind of brought up with the idea that creativity is not a is not an income driver.”

[5:17] Brad talks about the importance of recognizing an agency’s unique perspective and role. “In our business, we don't create for creative's sake. We're paid to create.”

[7:12] Ken continues to talk about the stigma surrounding creativity and the importance of recognizing that, “Creativity is required to be successful at anything. when there's a problem, you have to have the ability to be creative and get around it.”

[10:34] Bob talks about the importance of creativity and how we as humans were intentionally given the ability to be creative. “I want to dispel the myth that you’re not creative. As human beings, we have that so we can solve problems and express deeper truths; it is so that we can reframe things in our mind.”

[12:01] Ken discusses the idea that creativity sets humans apart from other mammals. “Being creative is the ability to imagine something and then bring it to life.”

[16:50] Ken talks about the mindset of successful business people and how, “They have a greater fear of not achieving that (idea), than the fear of failing.”

[17:01] Brad mentions that failure, “is the key to growth and success.”

[19:03] Bob discusses the importance of being curious and having a pliable mind in order to be creative.

[20:55] Ken talks about the balance between discipline and creativity as well as removing “impossible” from your vocabulary.

[22:37] Ken breaks down a question he asks himself to break out of a restricted mindset. “Ask yourself, how could this be possible? If you ask yourself that question and really spend time on it, you'll actually find really great answers.”

[25:58] Bob discusses the idea of the “leftover mentality” and the importance of realizing that your life and career exist in phases versus one big chunk.

[28:18] Brad talks about past, present, and future mindsets and the benefits and dangers of each. “Try to understand where you spend your thoughts and your time, because where your thoughts are, that's where you're going toward.”

[32:56] Ken says that it takes creativity to have a grateful perspective.

[33:36] Bob discusses the importance of learning to fail fast and learn from failures. “Be able to learn that wisdom to be grateful, and say, I would have never learned that had I not failed.”

[37:41] Bob talks about the cyclical nature of phases. “In our stages of life, there's order to disorder and reorder, and we're constantly going through that cycle. Creativity looks at order, blows it up and then puts it back together in something new and better and more creative and functional.”

[40:59] Bob wraps up this week’s episode by using an analogy to dive into the importance of innovation and always looking for ways to improve.

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Subtitle:

Have you ever been inside a store, picked up an item you thought was unique, looked at the price, and then put the item back on the shelf? This is a universal experience in all industries, and is particularly an issue in the agency world. How can we as business owners and professionals achieve successful value-pricing? In this episode, the guys discuss the concept of value pricing and how it can be applied to businesses. They emphasize the importance of differentiating your business and establishing yourself as an authority in your field. They also discuss the significance of positioning through branding, creating your own category, shifting your mindset, and more on this week’s episode.

Summary:

In this episode the guys discuss the concept of value pricing and how it can be applied to businesses. Ken dives into the idea behind value pricing and the role that context plays in determining the price people are willing to pay. He explains that all the information you provide about your product or service is what influences the price people are willing to pay. The gap between the cost and the result is the value, and the more you can push those two factors apart, the closer you get to an irresistible offer. Brad talks about the importance of differentiating your business in a crowded market. He says that as a business or a product, you can only be the cheapest, the best, or the only one. Ken adds that to differentiate your business, you need to establish your positioning through branding and determine your superpower. Bob talks about the importance of establishing yourself and your business as the authority and how that ties into value pricing. He explains that becoming the authority means establishing your own category, creating your own language, and shifting your mindset. Ken discusses the value in becoming aware of the business you’re really in. He emphasizes the importance of understanding your industry and your competitors and knowing how to position your business within that context. He says that if you're not aware of the business you're in, you'll encounter problems. Ken asks, "How do you move to value-based pricing?" and discusses the truth that no one wins if you don’t charge enough money. He explains that you need to use information in psychology to create awareness of all the value around the service that you have. He also talks about how he uses budgeting and cost plans to illustrate to the clients that there is a reason for each part of the price and if they want a price drop, something will need to be cut. Brad talks about clients asking for a reduction in price and uses an analogy to illustrate how this can become an issue in the service industry. He says that it's like going to a doctor and saying, "Doctor, I need a hip replacement," without a proper diagnosis. He emphasizes the importance of establishing yourself as the authority to prevent clients from asking for unreasonable reductions. Bob discusses the importance of positioning yourself as the obvious expert. He says that you need to position yourself as the authority every single time; otherwise, you'll be seen as a commodity. He emphasizes that the difference between those who are able to do value-based pricing and those who struggle with a commoditized business and an hourly model is their ability to position themselves as an authority. Ken talks about the importance of removing your assumptions, beliefs, and preconceptions in order to be able to "charge 10 times as much for that." He emphasizes that you need to think outside the box and be creative in determining the value of your services.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Establish your positioning as an authority and expert. To establish your business as an authority and command higher prices through value pricing, it's essential to identify your unique value proposition and leverage it through effective branding and positioning. Customers are willing to pay more for businesses that they perceive as experts in their field, and by establishing yourself as the authority, you can attract more customers and command value-based prices for your products or services. “You have to get your positioning, we talk a lot about your branding, and like that kind of stuff. And like being like, what's your superpower?”
Become aware of what business you’re really in. Identify the unique value proposition that your business offers and how it can solve your customers' problems. Without a clear understanding of your business, it can be difficult to create effective marketing strategies, attract and retain customers, and set value-based prices. By becoming aware of the business you're really in, you can focus your efforts on your core competencies, differentiate yourself from your competitors, and offer unique value to your customers. “If you're not aware of the business that you're in then I think there's problems.”
Determine what the value of your service or product actually is. Value pricing is creating awareness of the value of your service by using psychology. Budgeting can be used as a tool to explain that each part of the price has a reason, and if you want a price drop, something will need to be cut. This approach helps businesses determine the actual value of their product or service. “How do you charge anything for anything?”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:54] Ken opens this episode with a chat about how he is not a pet person.

[1:41] Brad says that he’s so thankful for the guys and the time spent together on this podcast.

[3:53] Bob discusses new AI voice technology and dives into possible future applications.

[7:05] Ken introduces today’s topic “we're going to talk about how to charge anything for anything.”

[7:21] Ken dives into the idea behind value pricing as well as the role context plays. “All the stuff that you say, is really what influences the price people pay.” … “That gap between like, what does it cost me, and what is the result; that's the value. Everyone's pushing those as far apart as possible, and the more you can push those apart, the closer you get to an irresistible offer.”

[10:40] Brad talks about the importance of differentiating your business. “As a business, and as a product, you can only be the cheapest, the best or the only.”

[11:22] Ken peels back some of the layers of value pricing by discussing the crucial element of positioning through branding. “You have to get your positioning, we talk a lot about your branding, and like that kind of stuff. And like being like, what's your superpower?”

[14:02] Bob talks about the importance of establishing yourself and your business as the authority and how that ties into value pricing.

[16:25] Bob dives into the significance of establishing your own category, creating your own language, and shifting your mindset.

[22:54] Ken discusses the value in becoming aware of the business you’re really in. “If you're not aware of the business that you're in then I think there's problems.”

[25:33] Ken asks, “How do you move to value based pricing?” and discusses the truth that no one wins if you don’t charge enough money.

[33:55] Brad talks about clients asking for a reduction in price and uses an analogy to illustrate how this can become an issue in the service industry. “It's like going to a doctor and saying, Doctor, I need a hip replacement. And the doctor is like, how do you know that? So they come with their own diagnosis, and they're looking for a doctor to prescribe something for them.”

[36:14] Ken defines value pricing as “using information in psychology, to create the awareness of all the value around the service that you have.” He also talks about how he uses budgeting and cost plans to illustrate to the clients that there is a reason for each part of the price and if you want a price drop, something will need to be cut.

[43:56] Bob discusses the importance of positioning yourself as the obvious expert. “You've got to position yourself as the obvious expert every single time otherwise, you're going to be seen as a commodity. that's the difference between those people that are able to do value based pricing and those who are struggling with a commoditized business and an hourly model.”

[45:57] Ken talks about the importance of removing your assumptions, beliefs, and preconceptions in order to be able to, “charge 10 times as much for that.”

[47:37] Bob wraps up by asking the listeners to, “Please like and recommend this podcast. We haven't asked you to do that in a while and to all you audio listeners, we do have a YouTube version of this. We haven't pushed that a whole lot lately either. So you can go to YouTube and just search up ‘agency exposed podcast’ and find us there.”

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Subtitle:

When most people think about AI, they think of the dangerous robots or technology from movies that destroy the human race. Though AI does have the potential to be dangerous, it also has a lot of potential to assist businesses by creating content, cleaning up writing, and helping with research. Today, the guys dive into the practical uses and dangers of Chat GPT and AI. They also talk about communication, misinformation, human nuance, Wall-E, and more on this week’s episode.

Summary:

In this week’s episode, Bob, Ken, and Brad engage in a discussion about Chat GPT and AI. Bob starts by asking how the guys use AI practically in their agency and business. Bob also explains that machine learning is the precursor to AI and has been around since the 1960s. He defines AI as generative, meaning it takes a prompt and tries to match and complete the thought as accurately as possible. The group then delves into the importance of words and communication in human relationships. They consider if it is the words alone, the context of the words, or the embodiment behind the words that matter most. Bob highlights the complexity of communication and how AI may struggle to understand the nuances of human language and relationships. Brad shares his experience exploring and using Chat GPT. He tests its capabilities and tries to find ways to use it to save time and create authentic content. He also discusses the amount of information that Chat GPT can retain as context, which affects its ability to generate accurate responses. Ken brings up the importance of using technology and AI wisely, leveraging time and avoiding the dangers of atrophy. He warns about relying too heavily on AI and losing valuable skills, such as writing. Brad agrees and highlights how Chat GPT has helped him save time and create content. Ken then asks Brad if he has used Chat GPT for research purposes. Brad discusses the extensive knowledge that Chat GPT has and also raises concerns about the dangers of AI creating and publishing false information. He emphasizes the importance of fact-checking and ensuring the accuracy of the information generated by AI. Brad highlights that the value of writing is not the writing itself, but the concepts behind it. Bob elaborates on the idea that AI does not have the same understanding of nuances as humans do, which could lead to misinformation. He explains that AI is only trying to give what it thinks the user wants, but has no incentive to provide what is true and accurate. Bob raises the concern about the potential for the best AI to become a tool solely for wealthy individuals and businesses. He warns about the unequal distribution of technology and the consequences of a small group having access to such powerful tools. Finally, Ken wraps up the discussion with a warning about the need for discipline in balancing technology and human skills. He emphasizes the importance of finding a balance between using technology and preserving valuable skills, such as critical thinking and writing. He stresses that there is no self-discipline in technology, and it is up to us to exercise discipline in its use.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

AI has the potential to increase your comfort or leverage; choose wisely. AI can revolutionize the way we live and work, offering new levels of comfort and efficiency. Whether you're looking to streamline your daily tasks, automate repetitive processes, or gain insights from large data sets, AI has the potential to increase your comfort and leverage in many ways. However, the danger of atrophy remains so it is vital to examine the motives behind using AI. “There's two ways you can use technology and AI. One way is to increase comfort, and the other way is to increase leverage.”
AI is a tool, not a human. AI is a useful tool but lacks the emotions, empathy, and understanding of human relationships that are essential to many aspects of our lives. By recognizing the limitations of AI and balancing its use with human skills, we can unlock its full potential and use it to enhance our lives and work. “There's no self discipline to balance technology with not technology. We have to exercise a lot of human discipline with these things, because they're really powerful.”
The dangers of AI are very real.The dangers of AI are real and can't be ignored. It lacks human nuance and context, leading to misinterpretation and false information. Misinformation spread by AI can have serious impacts, so it's important to use AI transparently, accurately, and responsibly to avoid these dangers and ensure its benefits to society. “It's just trying to give you what it thinks you want, but it has no incentive to give you what is true and what is accurate.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:42] Bob begins a discussion about this episode’s topic, Chat GPT and AI.

[1:35] Ken asks the guys how they use AI practically for agency and business.

[3:14] Bob talks about how machine learning is the prequel to AI, and AI has been around since the 60s. He says that AI is, “what we call generative. It's taking a prompt and it's actually trying to match that prompt and finish that thought and make it as accurate as possible.”

[5:45] Bob dives deep and asks, “what's the importance of words and communications in how we relate to other human beings? Is it the words alone? Is it the context of the words? Or is it the actual embodiment of someone behind those words?”

[10:00] Brad talks about some of the practical ways he’s been exploring and using Chat GPT. “I'm just testing it out, I'm trying to figure out how this thing can help me. What type of processes can I throw at it that it would give me the results I'm looking for? how much information could it retain, that it can use as context?”

[13:48] Ken talks about the importance of leveraging your time wisely and how to use technology and AI to either increase comfort or leverage; he also discusses the dangers of atrophy. “If you just asked it to write everything for you, eventually you'd lose the ability to write.”

[15:39] Brad talks about other ways he’s been using Chat GPT and how it has helped him save time and create authentic content.

[18:29] Ken asks, “Have you used it for anything on the research side of things?”

[18:33] Brad discusses the extensive knowledge that Chat GPT has and also launches a discussion about the dangers of AI creating and publishing false information.

[21:25] Brad says that, “The value of writing is not the writing. It's the concepts.”

[23:57] Bob elaborates on the idea that AI doesn’t have the same understanding of nuances as humans do and how this could lead to misinformation and its various dangers. “It's just trying to give you what it thinks you want, but it has no incentive to give you what is true and what is accurate”

[33:49] Bob talks about the potential for the best AI to become a tool solely for wealthy individuals and businesses.

[36:18] Ken wraps up with a warning, “There's no self discipline to balance technology with not technology. We have to exercise a lot of human discipline with these things, because they're really powerful.”

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Subtitle:

Processes. For many that word sounds boring, but for the wise owner it means profit. It’s one of your best tools to increase your profit. On this week’s episode, the guys dive right in, emphasizing the importance of developing and optimizing processes in business. By streamlining tasks and creating templates, businesses can work more efficiently and achieve better results. The guys also provide practical tips and tools that businesses can use to develop and optimize their processes, helping them to navigate uncertain times and achieve their goals.

Summary:

The guys stress that in uncertain times, it's important to figure out how to optimize what you're doing and create less cost while generating more profit. They emphasize that this is why processes are important. Processes can help to standardize operations, streamline tasks, and help teams to work more efficiently. The guys discuss how to get started with developing processes, suggesting that the first step is to document how tasks are currently done. By documenting tasks, businesses can create a foundation for developing SOPs that can be used by all team members. The guys also discuss the importance of seeking an outside perspective when developing processes and systems. The guys then dive into the specifics of how processes and systems can be developed and optimized. They talk about two areas where processes and systems have major value: delivery and product creation. The guys use an analogy of Lego blocks and a menu of items to express the importance of organizing and creating templates for each product or service a business offers. They also discuss how using tools like Monday can help create templates for projects and increase efficiency and organization. Monday is a project management tool that allows businesses to create project templates that can be easily customized and duplicated. The guys emphasize that tools like Monday provide accountability for all team members and clients and ensure that everyone is on the same page. The guys stress the importance of creating a culture that makes data and metrics fun, so that team members are more likely to engage with them. They also discuss the importance of setting goals for the business and using processes and tools to achieve them. By setting goals, businesses can work backward to determine the processes and systems needed to achieve those goals. Finally, the guys discuss how to improve results and charge higher prices by improving processes. They suggest asking how to charge 10 times what a business is currently charging, which can help to identify areas where processes and systems can be improved. By improving processes and delivering better results, businesses can charge more for their products or services.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Document any and all processes. Documenting current processes is a simple way to get started with process optimization. It enables clear communication and can help identify areas that need improvement. Having a centralized location to store all processes and systems can also streamline operations and ensure everyone has access to the right information and resources. These simple steps can help businesses create effective and efficient processes for improved productivity and success. “One of the most simple things you can do to get started on this more process oriented and time and resource saving endeavor is to simply document how you do things.”
Create product templates; you want to be a menu, not a personal chef. Creating templates for products using systems and processes brings immense value to a business. It standardizes and streamlines the production process, saving time and resources while maintaining consistency and quality. This eliminates the need to create new products from scratch and ensures efficient and error-free production. “We want like Lego blocks, or a menu of actual items. And so we don't want to be making new Lego blocks.”
Set goals; what do you want to achieve through these processes. Goal setting is crucial for any business and requires the use of processes and tools to achieve them. Without a clear target, it becomes difficult to measure success. It's important to consider how to handle projects and manage them efficiently, especially when scaling up.“You can't hit a target, and you can't see or you can't measure.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[1:07] Bob asks the guys how they’re doing, launching a discussion about their businesses and the economy in the new year.

[5:08] Ken talks about how hard seasons in life and business are necessary in order to grow stronger. “Good times create weak people, weak people create bad times, bad times create strong people, strong people good times.”

[6:48] Ken segues into this episode’s topic, processes. “It's always good, especially in these times to figure out how to optimize what you're doing. And if you can create less cost, and create more profit, then you have a better way of producing at a profit. And so that's why processes are important.”

[7:32] Brad mentions a quote he’s heard recently that ties into his word for the year and how those things relate to processes. “If you don't know how to put what you're doing into a process, you don't know what you're doing.”

[10:21] Bob talks about where to start when looking at how to create and define the sometimes overwhelming processes in your business. “One of the most simple things you can do to get started on this more process oriented and time and resource saving endeavor is to simply document how you do things.”

[12:50] Brad discusses the importance of seeking an outside perspective and having one location where you can store every system and process each employee uses.

[14:22] Ken talks about two areas where processes and systems have major value; delivery and the actual products. He uses a Lego analogy to express the importance of organizing and creating a template for each product or service you offer. “We want like Lego blocks, or a menu of actual items. And so we don't want to be making new Lego blocks.”

[17:23] Brad dives into the specifics about how he and his business utilize his tool, Monday, to create templates for their projects and how it has increased efficiency and organization. “So what we do is we've started templates for our projects. We literally will just drag that project and start a brand new project. It automatically has all the hours for it, and we pretty much know what the cost is. You can tweak it, if there's some nuances and stuff. But then what happens is, the whole project is already set up all the timelines, all we do is we trigger it.”

[21:52] Brad discusses how his tool, Monday, has really helped his business because, “it just gives accountability to your customers, it's really accountability for everybody, and clarity.”

[24:30] Bob talks about the value and saved time that result from having templatized products.

[31:13] Brad says, “you can't hit a target, and you can't see or you can't measure.”

[32:35] Bob talks about the importance of creating a culture that makes the data and the metrics fun so that you are able to optimize the processes. “If you can create a culture, you not only make it better for the client and for yourself, and you are able to optimize, but you also catch things quicker.”

[36:41] Brad talks about the importance of setting goals for your business and using processes and tools to achieve them. “Let's just dream a little bit? And let's just say we actually are able to meet this goal? How are we going to be able to handle these projects? When, you know, without? How do we do this? How do we manage? Efficient? How do we scale?”

[39:51] Brad says that in order for your processes to be successful, you have to plan on them being used by the average person. “There's going to be superstars in your agency who can do projects quicker, get them up on their feet quick. But you have to plan for the average person and their speed.”

[41:11] Ken wraps up by asking, “how can we charge 10 times that? Ask yourself that question because then it forces you to the next step to ask, how can we improve the result that it creates?”

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Subtitle:

How’s 2023 going so far? We start every year with successful themes and words; not resolutions. Approximately 80 percent of those who set New Year’s Resolutions give up at the beginning of February. This is why we at Agency Exposed believe that choosing a word to guide your year and give you something to focus on is a better way to achieve change and grow. In this week’s episode, we break down our themes for this year, our themes from last year, and AI.

Summary:

On this week's episode the guys break down their words from last year, their words for 2023, and AI. Ken explains the reasoning behind choosing a word or a theme for a year instead of having resolutions. He quotes basketball coach Tim Grover, stating that "The difference between winners and losers is that winners value the process of winning, and losers, only value the result." He emphasizes the importance of valuing the journey and not just the end goal. Bob then asks the guys to reflect on their words from the previous year, and how they put them into practice. Ken talks about his word from last year, leverage, and how it helped him to understand that by loosening his grip, he can achieve more. He also explains how he views his past words as building blocks and tools to continue to change and grow. Brad talks about his phrase for last year, more fun, and how it helped him to focus on doing more things that bring him joy and laughter. He also shares a conversation he had with his dad that inspired his word, where his dad regretted working too much and not spending enough time with his family. Bob shares his word for the previous year, simplify, and how it helped him to realize that the biggest journeys and adventures are not somewhere out there to conquer, but with the people he does life with. He also talks about his new business that he is launching and how he believes that collaboration is greater than competition. Ken shares his word for this year, belief, and how it has been unpacked for him in so many different ways. He emphasizes that the greatest human superpower is expectation, which is closely related to belief, and that if you change what you expect, you get what you expect, and not what you deserve. Brad talks about the process he used to arrive at his word for this year, transparency, and how he believes it applies not only to business but also to his personal life. He also talks about how he's been testing and using AI and how it's helped him and his business. Bob joins the conversation and talks about the importance of recognizing the things that AI succeeds at and the things that humans succeed at, and how to utilize them to our advantage. He concludes the episode by emphasizing the importance of creating value around our creativity and ideation, as well as our people and services.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Belief. Ken shares his word for this year and explains how it has been significant for him in various ways. He stresses that the greatest human superpower is expectation, which is closely related to belief. He states that if one changes their expectations, they will get what they expect and not what they deserve. “The greatest human superpower is expectation. If you change what you expect, you get what you expect. You get what you believe, you don't get what you deserve.”
Transparency. Brad explains that he arrived at his word for this year, transparency, through a process of reflection and it applies to both business and personal life. He believes that being transparent allows for deeper connections and trust and it also helps him to be more authentic in his interactions. “Clarity is the understanding of something but transparency is being able to see it as well.”
Collaboration. Bob’s word for the year is collaboration, and he emphasizes that it is more important than competition; especially for building his new business. Collaboration can lead to better problem solving, innovation and stronger relationships. “Collaboration is greater than competition.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:39] Bob opens this week’s episode by introducing this episode’s topic, the guys’ words for 2023.

[2:48] Ken talks about the reasoning behind choosing a word or a theme for a year instead of having resolutions.

[5:05] Ken talks about a quote from basketball coach Tim Grover and applies it to setting goals. “The difference between winners and losers is that winners value the process of winning, and losers, only value the result.”

[7:37] Bob asks the guys to break down their words from last year. “Why don't we talk about our words last year, briefly talk about what the experience was.. And how you live that out.”

[8:18] Ken talks about his word from last year, leverage. “You can lift more if you loosen your grip.”

[10:04] Ken your multiplier is someone who spends their time on something that actually makes more time in the future. It's like an investment.

[15:40] Ken says that he views his past words as building blocks and tools to continue to change.

[16:23] Brad talks about his phrase for this past year, more fun. “I live with the goal of doing more stuff. But it's always for return on investment. And I realized that I'm best when I'm laughing.”

[20:29] Brad talks about a discussion he had with his dad that inspired his word and created a shift in his perspective. “I asked my dad, what is the one thing in life that you regret? And he said, "I regret working so much, because I wasn't around my family as much.”

[21:25] Bob talks about his word for last year, simplify.

[24:51] Bob opens with his word for this year, collaborate and talks about his new business that he is launching. “I know that collaboration is greater than competition.”

[27:32] Ken talks about his word for this year, belief. “Over the last year, that word keeps coming up in my life, and in different ways. And it's been unpacked, for me, in so many different ways… the greatest human superpower is expectation, which you can say is basically a synonym of belief. But basically if you change what you expect, you get what you expect. You get what you believe you don't get what you deserve, you get what you believe.”

[32:13] Brad talks about the process he used to get to his word, transparency. “So first I, my word was clarity. I'm going to choose a different word. While clarity is the understanding of something, transparency is being able to see it as well.”

[33:45] Brad digs into the idea of transparency and authenticity and how it not only applies to business but also to his personal life.

[37:09] Ken starts a discussion about AI and how it is being used today.

[38:09] Brad talks about the ways he’s been testing and using AI and how it’s helped him and his business. “And so I will tell, I will kind of craft the initial idea of what I want. And they'll just ask it to refine, refine, refine, refine, refine, and then I'll say, Give me three alternatives to that. And it'll give you ideas.”

[42:25] Bob talks about the importance of recognizing the things that AI succeeds at and the things that humans succeed at, and utilizing those to your advantage.

[49:36] Bob wraps up this episode by saying, “you need to create value around your creativity and your ideation versus your people and your services.”

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Subtitle:

2022 flew by and 2023 is here. That means it’s time to reflect on 2022 and what you want to change for yourself and your business in 2023. In today’s episode, we break down our goals, predictions, and thoughts for 2023 along with what we think all agencies should focus on. We talk about profit, efficiency, value, processes, Severance, shooting for the stars, and more on this week’s episode. Let us know your thoughts, goals, or questions in the comments below.

Summary:

In this episode, we discuss our goals, ideas, and theories for 2023 along with some changes we will be making in our businesses. Each agency is unique and has different strengths, yet there are a few things we all could be doing to improve and spark change in the coming year. The first of these being focusing on and prioritizing profit. Profit is mistakenly viewed as greed driven or selfish when it is often in fact the opposite. In order to serve your customers well, you have to be able to fund ways to do that, this is where profit comes in. Most midsize agencies make around 15% of profit per year, and small agencies make around 10%. This is simply not enough to successfully run a business and allow for growth and investment. Profit also ties into efficiency and value. Profit is based on value, and value requires efficiency. So in order to increase your profit, you need to evaluate and improve your efficiency and improve the way you communicate your value to your clients. This is where mindset comes into play. You have to believe that you have earned your profit and that what you have to offer is valuable. It’s also crucial to recognize the importance of processes and evaluate how you can implement them to create more efficiency. We also talk about the advancement of technology, what that looks like, and what that means for agencies moving forward. It’s important to identify your ‘Lego blocks’ and improve your attribution.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Focus on profit. One of agencies’ most common misconceptions is that high profit is for the greedy and selfish. This is due in part to agencies’ low profit and their mindsets. Instead we must understand that profit is not greed, but instead a tool for our businesses to better serve our clients and employees while also growing and investing in the future of the business. “Unhealthy, low profit businesses don't help anybody, not the people that work for them, not the people that own them, not the people they serve.”
Improve efficiency and the ways you communicate value. Profit is built upon value, so one of the ways to increase your profit is to communicate your value in a creative, meaningful, or practical way. Value is due in part to time and therefore efficiency. Value, profit, and efficiency are all tied together, so by strengthening one, you inadvertently strengthen all three. “It's important for agencies, especially smaller ones, to understand that profit is based on value.”
Change your mindset. Many agencies view themselves as service providers when in fact, they are media companies. Because they view themselves in this way, they often fall into the trap of validating themselves through busy work. To avoid this, agencies need to shift their mindset to one that shows that they are media companies, and that profit is a way to better serve their clients due to the high value they as an agency produce. “You need to shift your thinking from just being a service to seeing yourself as a media company.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[1:05] Bob opens this week’s episode with a chat about how the meaning of phrases or words change over time due to new societal context.

[3:00] Brad talks about the importance of having a holistic and balanced life and how work can, “disconnect us from who we are”.

[3:24] Ken says that, “there's no such thing as business life and personal life.” but we often separate the two mentally.

[7:09] Bob asks the guys about their thoughts, and predictions for 2023 and any goals or changes they’ll be making in their businesses.

[7:34] Brad talks about some of his new focuses for his business in 2023. “We are focusing a lot more on new business development, looking at our processes and services and really challenging what we do, making sure that our clients get the best value, but also that we are competitive, really offering value where our customers can't find that easily, and looking at our current customers and trying to figure out how do we serve them better?”

[8:24] Brad dives more into serving his current customers better and his ideas on how to do that. “We are shifting our models, diving into our sales data to understand where our key profit centers are, and trying to package a little bit more of our services in a way that is more better clarity. We've hired somebody to kind of spearhead that, a Director of Client partnership, and just really understanding, you know, where our sweet spots are trying to dive into that further.”

[9:43] Ken talks about an analogy he uses to identify and create replicable things to sell.

[11:01] Brad mentions the importance of recognizing, “processes run your business and people run the processes”.

[11:52] Ken discusses his thoughts for 2023 regarding the importance of profit and how that enables you to serve your clients. “A lot of people associate profit with greed. And if I have a high profit, my clients won't be happy. That is a common misconception; it's the exact opposite.”

[12:59] Ken says that, “10% profit margin margin is not enough to run the business. Any MBA will tell you and the standard is around 30%.”

[15:00] Ken elaborates more on profit and its relationship with efficiency and value.

It's important for agencies, especially smaller ones, to understand that profit is based on value…Agencies tend to validate themselves with busy work more often than other businesses…Unhealthy, non profitable, low profit businesses don't help anybody, not the people that work for them, not the people that own them, not the people they serve.”

[18:27] Bob talks about changing our mindset and beliefs of profit to one that allows you to, “learn how to charge more and realize I'm going to be able to serve my clients.”

[20:30] Brad applies the adage, “when you shoot for the stars, at least you’ll land on the moon,” to setting goals for and dreaming about your business.

[21:51] Ken talks about the role of your inputs and how that impacts your ability to shoot for the stars. “Whatever star you're hitting, is probably in line with the inputs that you have.”

[22:22] Ken asks a few questions that all agencies should be asking themselves in order to prompt a mindset change that will help them to begin to pursue their big goals.

[27:10] Brad discusses the importance of presenting value in a creative way or a way that makes sense, and uses an example from his business recently to demonstrate its importance.

[29:37] Bob breaks down his thoughts and predictions for 2023 including technology’s advancement, smaller agency sizes, and understanding your business’ attribution, and how these things will impact agencies and what agencies of the future will look like.

[33:58] Bob also talks about blockchain being integrated into marketing, data integrity, investing in technology, the commoditization of services, and changing your mindset of being a service to being a media company. “You need to shift your thinking from just being a service to seeing yourself as a media company. Some of that might be print, some of it might be intellectual. But 90% of what we do is we create media.”

[38:41] Ken summarizes this episode with three key points for agencies to focus on. “Focus on profit, focus on efficiency, focus on value.”

[38:48] Brad wraps up by saying, “If you guys have any questions, or if you guys are doing things this year in your business, reach out to us.”

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Subtitle:

How to write a book. So many want to, so few do. Though it might seem lofty, unrealistic, or daunting, you CAN write a book. Everyone in our world has a different experience and perspective and something unique to say; the challenge is putting it into book form. In the last episode, we dove into Bob Hutchins and Jenny Black’s book, Our Digital Soul, breaking down the solution to media trauma and collective anxiety. In today’s episode, we continue our three part discussion of Bob’s book, but we focus more on the behind the scenes of how to write a book as well as the processes and some practical tips. We highly encourage you to check out Bob and Jenny’s book on Amazon or ourdigitalsoul.com and let us know your thoughts or questions in the comments below.

Summary:

In this episode, we continue to discuss Bob Hutchins and Jenny Black’s book, Our Digital Soul. In our last episode, we talked about how to heal and be part of the solution to the collective anxiety and media trauma we as a society have endured and continue to bear. If you haven’t yet, please go check out the previous two episodes to get the full scoop of our three part series breaking down Bob and Jenny’s book. This episode is different from the past two because instead of breaking down the content of Bob’s book, instead, we dive into the processes involved in writing a book. Bob talks about his motivation behind writing this book and his previous three as well as the role writing has played in his business and life. He also talks about his process behind picking a topic, doing research on it, and deciding if it is something the public is interested in. Bob discusses the opportunities he’s had because of his book as well as his top tips and advice for anyone thinking about writing a book. He also talks about the importance of writing everyday, finding your unique perspective, and making your book authentically you. If you enjoyed today’s episode and feel curious about media trauma and how to heal, don’t forget to purchase Bob Hutchins’ and Jenny Black’s book, Our Digital Soul: Collective Anxiety, Media Trauma and a Path Toward Recovery.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Write everyday. Whether it’s a journal, notes of things you learned, or simply an idea you thought of, it makes a huge difference to write something everyday. These writings don’t have to be groundbreaking ideas, just little snippets that you can reflect on later that can help you when in the process of writing a book. “I’m just writing everyday.”
Find your unique perspective. This may sound cliche, but everyone in this world has their own perspective and something to say. Find what you’re passionate about and talk to people about it to see if there seems to be a public interest in it. Do your research and see if and what other authors have written about the topic. Don’t get discouraged by what you may find, keep an open mind and continue writing and researching. “My test is always, when you talk to people about it, does it resonate, do their eyes light up and say, ‘Oh, I've never thought about it that way.’”
Make it book authentically yours. Don’t retell someone else’s story or filter your passion or perspective through someone else’s lens. Even if you think your book is the most boring book on the face of this earth, it will resonate with and impact someone because true connection happens through authenticity and honesty. Tell the story you want from your unique, authentic perspective. “The most important number one most important thing is make sure it's authentically yours.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:32] Bob opens this episode with a chat about old tv shows, inflation, and how the

[6:34] Brad says, “the thought of writing a book is very daunting to me. So I would love to break down some myths of writing a book… I'd like to get to the heart of like, your motivation for book writing,”

[7:31] Bob talks about his love of writing and how he’s built his business and marketing on content and how those things helped him become familiar with and comfortable with the idea of writing.

[9:49] Bob discusses the importance of identifying your reasoning behind why you want to write. “Depending on what your reasoning for writing is, also should drive how it's done.”

[12:10] Bob talks about his motivation for writing this book and his overall motivation to write. “The motivation was certainly thought leadership. And so that's a lot of my drive is thinking deeply about things and having a voice in the environments that I found that I find myself in my career.”

[13:05] Ken asks Bob, “what was your process like in just deciding your topics?”

[14:09] Bob says that there isn’t just one way to write a book and that one of the most important things is to just write something everyday. He also talks about the way he identifies if his topic is interesting to the outside world and would make a good book.

[17:53] Brad asks Bob, “How do you figure out if your book is unique? What’s the process?”

[18:38] Bob talks about the importance of research, outlining ideas, and identifying the target demographic.

[21:22] Brad asks Bob, “what kind of things does your book allow you to do that you maybe wouldn't have been able to do?”

[23:37] Ken talks about how in any type of business and marketing, “you have to have a formula for success.”

[29:02] Ken mentions that one of the values of writing quality content is that it can be used to write a book. He also talks about his secret to writing effective articles and blog posts.

[34:40] Bob breaks down the most important thing to remember when writing a book. “The most important number one most important thing is make sure it's authentically yours.”

[36:11] Brad asks Bob what the cost would be to write a book.

[37:13] Bob says that the price depends on what you’re looking for but it could be between a few thousand dollars to twenty thousand.

[39:49] Ken asks Bob if he writes the title first or last and if he recommends finding a publisher or not.

[47:04] Bob closes today’s episode by telling the listeners that they can find his book on Amazon. “It's called “Our Digital Soul: Collective Anxiety, Media Trauma, and a Path toward Recovery. You can just Google my name or Jenny black, my co author or just Our Digital Soul.”

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Subtitle:

Being human in a digital world. It’s no secret that our society has become a digital one; almost everything we do is online or involves the internet. In the last episode, we dove into Bob Hutchins and Jenny Black’s book, Our Digital Soul, breaking down collective anxiety and media trauma. In today’s episode, we continue our discussion of Bob’s book, but we focus more on the solutions and ways to reduce media trauma through screen time and how to heal from the influence of technology. We highly encourage you to check out Bob and Jenny’s book on Amazon or ourdigitalsoul.com and let us know your thoughts or questions in the comments below.

Summary:

In this episode, we continue to discuss Bob Hutchins and Jenny Black’s book, Our Digital Soul. In our last episode, we talked about what collective anxiety and media trauma are and in this episode, we discuss how to heal as a society and how to remain human in a digital world. In order to remain human, it’s important to consider what defines humanity and then apply those aspects to our lives in the digital age. Bob discusses a few of the ways to remain human. The first one is that staying human is about less. Online we have the world at our fingertips. The internet enables you to do so many things online. Another way to stay human is to accept your limitations. Because the internet is so vast and has “all the answers”, it conditions society to believe that we do not have limitations when online. Bob also discusses the importance of coming to terms with the paradox and mysteries of humanity. Our world isn’t black and white, yes or no, there’s often a lot of gray and maybes. The internet can convince its users that everyone is one way or another and this is false. There are many mysteries to life that we haven’t figured out yet, and sometimes there isn’t a clear cut answer. We as humans also don’t always get what we want, but technology creates the illusion that we can always get what we want due to the lack of limits on technology. As professionals in the technology industry, we are responsible to lead the way and start setting boundaries and being intentional about our marketing and be the start of the solution. You won’t want to miss our next episode where we’ll break down the process of writing a book. If you feel curious about media trauma or want to be part of the solution, don’t forget to purchase Bob Hutchins’ and Jenny Black’s book, Our Digital Soul: Collective Anxiety, Media Trauma and a Path Toward Recovery.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Staying human is about less. We’ve all been that person who hoarded their halloween candy or had a random collection of rocks. This behavior is unhealthy, yet we allow ourselves to indulge in it when it comes to technology. We as a society are endlessly scrolling, posting, or hoarding our online experiences. We use technology as a tool to escape the limits of our world. Instead of hoarding when it comes to technology, we might exercise discipline and enjoy the social experience online in moderation. “Successful humanity is about making decisions, sticking with them, and moving forward.”
Accept your limitations; you can’t always get what you want. We are human and we have limitations on what we can do and it’s a fact of life that it is impossible to always get what you want. Technology has enabled and conditioned us as a society to believe that because knowledge is so accessible and almost everything is right at our fingertips, we can get whatever we want whenever we want. This is false, and when we ‘return to reality’ after being online and we don’t get what we want, this can drive us back to technology to continue getting the bursts of dopamine. It’s also important to remember that creating beautiful things takes time and effort, it’s not going to be instant or easy and we will make mistakes along the way. “All of the things in the real world take time; it takes accepting our limitations in order to create something beautiful.”
Come to terms with the paradox and mysteries of humanity. Though the internet almost always has the answers, recipes, or news you are looking for, there are things that it will never understand. There’s only so much that programming and social media can convey. Nothing is ever just black or white; there is more middle ground than the internet may lead you to believe. Humanity is complex, and it can’t be defined or simplified by technology. “When you're in a digital space. Everything is divided into either or categories. In real life, you're a mix of things. Online, you're actively creating an identity that begins to define you in society. Then it begins to define society, and when the digital definition becomes your primary identity, you will miss out on innumerable human facets of who you are that a program can't translate or compute.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:31] Bob opens this episode by introducing the topic, part two of Our Digital Soul by Jenny black and Bob Hutchins.

[2:37] Brad talks about how in the previous episode, they discussed the challenges posed to us through social media and screens, and he asks Bob to unpack the solutions and the ways we as a society can heal.

[5:22] Bob begins a discussion about some of the solutions or methods we can use and act on to limit our time on technology and the resulting trauma. “The first one is: Staying human is about less.” “Successful humanity is about making decisions, sticking with them, and moving forward. We look at a person who hoards and we go, that's really unhealthy. We kind of do that in the digital world, we hoard our options. We're endlessly scrolling, we hoard our experiences, because we want to escape from the limits of human existence.”

[8:25] Ken talks about the importance of exercising the discipline muscle because, “once it's gone, it's really hard to get back, and it's so critical in life.”

[9:41] Brad talks about how he’s noticed that often he will use his phone as a way to fill dead space and prevent boredom. “Why do I feel the need to pick up my phone? When there's a dead space? Why can't I just allow this space to happen? And be okay with not having to entertain my mind right now?”

[10:23] Bob discusses the fact that, “boredom is our brain processing”.

[11:29] Ken adds that your subconscious does process things through sleeping or just when your conscious is not focused or actively doing something.

[12:42] Bob reads a segment from his book and talks about two other ways to remain human in the digital world, “the second one is staying human means accepting limitations. All of the things that in the real world take time, it takes accepting our limitations in order to create something beautiful.”... “Staying human means coming to terms with the mystery and paradox of humanity.”

[17:05] Brad mentions the idea that remaining human in this digital space is not only about what you consume but also how you present yourself.

[20:27] Ken discusses the adage, “with great power comes great responsibility.” and how it applies to technology.

[25:47] Bob reads a section of his book and breaks down the idea that “Staying human also means you don't always get what you want.” and how technology has conditioned our society to believe that we can have whatever we want whenever we want because there are no boundaries to what we can do with technology.

[32:04] Bob talks about how each of his three kids have grown up in different eras of technology and how it has impacted each of their lives individually. He also talks about some of the rules he and his family have to help them remain human and reduce the time they spend on screens.

[43:15] Ken asks, “As professionals in this industry, what can we do? To not help hurt the situation, but improve the situation? How do we put boundaries on what we do to be part of the solution and not the problem and still do business?”

[43:58] Bob discusses the importance of giving a genuine experience to your customers that is human and natural that doesn’t exploit their weaknesses through technology.

[45:35] Ken entertains the idea of, “Putting reasonable limits on the unlimited. Put even limits on E commerce. I was thinking in my head, like, what if we shut down websites at 9pm? Like should websites close?”

[49:40] Bob wraps up by informing listeners that they can purchase Our Digital Soul on Amazon for fifteen dollars. “We're the number one release in the psychology section for about a week and a half. It's called Our Digital Soul: Collective Anxiety, Media Trauma and a Path Toward Recovery. You can go to our digital soul.com If you want to know more, or you can just search it up on Amazon.”

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Subtitle:

Media trauma. Sounds scary… but (our own) Bob Hutchins and Jenny Black’s new book, Our Digital Soul helps to, “guide you through the overwhelming maze of modern life to the life you really want, as it takes a hard look at the impacts of digital media and the trauma that results for all ages and every generation. Backed by research and experience, Black and Hutchins share their own personal journeys as well as those of their clients to explore a path where we can recover and thrive alongside our digital reality.” We dive deep on Bob’s new book, trauma bonds, technology, social media, small-t trauma, and more on this insightful episode.

Summary:

What is media trauma? In order to understand what media trauma is, we first need to acknowledge that all technology is an extension of us. Because of this it impacts and changes who we are physiologically, psychologically, emotionally, and as a community. The magnitude of this impact is partially due to the imbalance of our brains and our technology. While our technology has continued to advance, our brains have stayed the same. This imbalance can lead to overwhelming amounts of small-t traumas. Small t-traumas are things such as a breakup, the death of a pet, losing a job, getting bullied, or being rejected by a friend group. These social small t-traumas happen even more online, that compound upon each other, causing media trauma. All trauma is created through trauma bonds and trauma bonds are defined as “emotional bonds with an individual that arise from a recurring cyclical pattern of abuse, perpetuated by intermittent reinforcement through rewards and punishment.” If we changed the word “individual” into “technology” would that statement not define our relationship with technology? In order to heal from media trauma, we must become aware of it, educate ourselves and others on the magnitude of media trauma, and begin to exercise self discipline. We will dive even further into Bob Hutchins and Jenny Black’s book, Our Digital Soul in the next episode; you definitely won’t want to miss it! We also highly encourage you to check out their book on Amazon or ourdigitalsoul.com and let us know your thoughts or questions in the comments below.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

All technology is an extension of us. Though technology can be a very broad term it could include things that are considered commonplace along with computer and internet based inventions. Consider this; an airplane is an extension of our feet and a shovel is an extension of our arms. With this kind of perspective, computers could be considered extensions of our brain and the internet an extension of our nervous system. This understanding helps lay the foundation for comprehending media trauma and the magnitude of its impact. “If it's an extension of us, then it fundamentally changes us. Physiologically, psychologically, and as communities…”
We have godlike technology. Bob has mentioned this quote before, “The problem with humanity is we have Paleolithic brains, medieval institutions and godlike technology”. Due to this unique combination, this can lead to overwhelming amounts of small-t traumas because of the imbalance between us and our technology.
Media trauma is real. We’ve all experienced feeling left out, and this feeling along with others is magnified and multiplied by social media, creating repeating small-t traumas that compound upon one another. Bob defines trauma bonds as relating to an abusive relationship with a spouse, and changes “someone” into “technology”, as a stark description of our relationship with technology. He doesn’t make this comparison lightly. “Trauma bonds, or emotional bonds, with a device or a technology that arise from recurring cyclical patterns of abuse, perpetuated by inner intermittent reinforcement, through rewards and punishment.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:32] Bob opens this week’s episode with a chat about what the guys have been up to recently.

[5:47] Bob talks about his book that was just released, “Our digital soul: collective anxiety, media trauma and a path toward recovery”.

[8:47] Bob begins a discussion about technology and its impact on society and says that, “good marketing is Psychology and math.” “it's getting people to respond and engage and then measuring and scaling it”.

[16:06] Bob talks about the difference between video games and cell phone time/social media/work and how they impact your brain differently.

[17:16] Bob breaks down how all technology is simply an extension of us as humans.

“Every new technology is an extension of us. if you think of the wheel, it was an extension of our feet, right? We have to frame it that way, versus it's just a tool, and it's separate from me, no technology is ever separate from us…If it's an extension of us, then it fundamentally changes us. Physiologically, psychologically, and as communities… What is the computer and the cell phone an extension of? It's an extension of our brains. So what then is the internet? It's a further extension of our brains, and I would argue it's an extension of our nervous systems.”

[21:57] Brad adds that it can often be very easy to be overwhelmed with the high amounts of information with emotional ties that enter our brain every day.

[23:06] Bob talks about a quote from a biologist, EO Wilson, “the problem with humanity's we have Paleolithic brains, medieval institutions and godlike technology.”, adding that, “you can't plug a Paleolithic brain and expect it to keep up with godlike technology.”

[24:25] Brad asks Bob if he believes that AI will be able to regulate the amount of information and stimulation we receive to healthier levels.

[26:54] Bob defines media trauma, “small-t” traumas, and dives into some of the side effects (or “small-t’s”) of screen life. “We define media trauma as experiences through media, and personal devices that hinder or harm our capacity to be mentally whole.”

[32:22] Ken discusses how according to Dr. Andrew Huberman, “the frequency of dopamine hits that we get daily is the number one societal problem because because they're their weight, they're way more frequent than they ever have been in history.”

[34:29] Bob dives deep into an explanation of his and Jenny Black’s book, discussing how the internet compounds small-t traumas, three of the five symptoms that indicate that you have media trauma, and breaks down trauma bonds. “That's something called a trauma bond. Now I want to read the definition, and then I'm going to change one word. Trauma bonds are emotional bonds with an individual that arise from a recurring cyclical pattern of abuse, perpetuated by intermittent reinforcement through rewards and punishment. But let me change one word. Trauma bonds, or emotional bonds, with a device or a technology that arise from recurring cyclical patterns of abuse, perpetuated by inner intermittent reinforcement, through rewards and punishment.”

[42:58] Ken asks whether we as a society can exercise our discipline muscle now that we know the true impact of technology on our lives.

[44:36] Bob talks about the importance of self awareness, education, and collective intervention in order to, “retrofit this crazy godlike technology to our paleolithic brains.”

[48:03] Ken asks what the audience should take away from this, and why should they read this book?

[49:09] Bob says that, “mental health and wellness professionals. We want to get it in the hands of all of them. So hopefully it's accessible to everyone. But it is chock full of studies and data and information that could make an impact.”

[49:58] Bob says that you can buy Our Digital Soul on amazon.com or at ourdigitalsoul.com.

[50:29] Bob talks about some of the topics for the next episode. “What are some things that you can do to heal? What are you addicted to? One of the indicators is, what's the first thing that comes to your mind when you open your eyes in the morning you wake up?”

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Subtitle:

The goal of all businesses is to make profit, and that’s only possible if you’re able to consistently close business at a profitable rate. So the question is, how do you close more contracts? In today’s episode, we break down the process of funneling clients, and some key steps to produce the most success and increase your close rate. We talk about investing, communication, Mark Cuban, money, and more on this week’s episode!

Summary:

On today’s episode we explore strategies to close more business. In order to figure out how to increase your closing rate, first you have to analyze how you get clients there and how your funnel works. Once you’ve identified the steps and processes your business uses to close contracts and work with clients, then you can work on improving your processes and systems. In the inquiry phase, the top of the funnel, we’ve learned through our experience that asking questions is key to moving forward with clients. Some of the most helpful questions that you can ask are “Why now?, Why us?, and What would a successful project or result look like for you?”. These questions can help you identify the timeline, scope, and budget of the project as well as set clear expectations. We’ve also learned that having the client make a small investment with your business is key. This investment should ultimately leave them with a high amount of valuable information about their company and what all needs to be done to reach their goals for the project. This can help eliminate competition and give you a real sense of the project as well as give the client confidence to move forward with the project. The key in all of these things is communication. Oftentimes in life, people are disappointed because of unrealistic or unmet expectations. In order to prevent this disappointment and conflict, communication is vital. Be honest with what your company needs to uphold your standards of work as well as who you are and what you are able to do. It all boils down to money and if they feel like they are receiving a high quality product. In the end, money isn’t what we care about, it’s what that money can buy or do for us.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Ask the ‘why’ questions. When businesses are in the inquiry phase, it’s important to gather information about the client and their company, the project they want done, the scope, their budget, and the timeline. Three excellent questions to ask to fully understand these details are the “why questions”. “ Why now? Why us? What would the things be that make it a win?” These questions can help your business move forward with clear direction.
Build in a “small investment” step. One step in the closing process that has helped Ken and his business boost their closing rate is the “small investment” step. This step allows clients to feel like they are investing a small amount of money to understand the problem they need to solve as well as the ways it can be solved. It eliminates the risk factor, and if done correctly, can eliminate your competitors, increasing your close rate. “It allows them to test the waters with you at very low cost.”
Communicate expectations and capabilities clearly. One of the most important skills in all business and in life in general is communication. Without communication, people can feel disconnected, excluded, out of the loop, shocked, and even angry. Lack of communication causes problems and can lose clients. Not only is communication with the client important, but so is communication with your team. Communication sets realistic goals and expectations and creates a healthy business relationship. “The key is to communicate to your potential client, this is who we are.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:47] Ken open’s this week’s episode by wishing Bob a happy birthday.

[3:31] Ken begins a discussion about this week’s topic, sales, and how to improve your closing rate. “What are the logical stages that we go through that we want to track step to step?”

[4:36] Ken begins to break down the stages that his business, Metacake, goes through, starting at the beginning with initial inquiry. “We have some sort of initial call where we qualify them.”

[5:05] Ken discusses the three main questions he asks during the initial inquiry and how it helps him to understand the company and the potential project. “Why now? Why us? What would the things be that make it a win?”

[10:43] Bob talks about the importance of managing expectations.

[14:07] Ken discusses the three main factors of a project and talks about a key psychology tactic that has helped his business boost their closing percentage. “In our philosophy there are like three factors to a project. They’re timeline, scope, and budget we've adjusted our pipeline a little bit, and one of the things that has helped us close the most is like putting into place some sort of small, very low cost, essentially strategy product that allows the clients to test the waters with you at very low cost.”

[20:07] Ken says that inserting this step, “develops trust, which builds in ownership to the solution. Also you kind of eliminate competition most of the time.”

[28:20] Ken talks about his goal with this product was to create a clear deliverable product that benefits the client, impresses them, and allows them to see what they actually need and how his business can deliver.

[32:00] Ken discusses how helping the client visualize the solution to their problem has a magical effect; it helps them feel confident moving forward.

[34:25] Ken talks about how often price is thought of as equal to quality (higher price means higher quality), and because of this assumption, many people are willing to and even happy to pay a higher price. He also adds that, “no one really cares about money. We think we do, but we really care about the results of the money.”

[38:02] Brad makes the point that he and his team feel more at peace about certain projects when they know that they’re being paid enough to uphold their high standard. “We're happier internally when we know we have enough.”

[39:50] Ken adds on and says, “for projects where we haven't gotten paid enough, no one's happy.”

[42:11] Brad analyzes the common belief that abundance means overpaid and how that isn’t true. “Abundance is enough.”

[43:30] Bob talks about a way to communicate your financial needs in a way that is about serving the client and upholding the company’s standard.

[46:44] Brad closes by talking about Mark Cuban and his pharmaceutical business and how, “Mark knows his lane. He knows exactly what that business is going to be. The key is to communicate to your potential client, this is who we are.”

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Subtitle:

We’ve all waited in line for long periods of time, either by choice or necessity. As businesses, we want to be the business consumers choose to wait in line for, but be aware of what people pay for. It’s all about time, gaining more time, achieving something faster, and enjoying the time they spend. To that end, every business is in the time maximization business. On today’s episode, we break down the importance of time, time management, customer service, being proactive, pursuing purpose and meaning, and more on this week’s episode!

Summary:

On today’s episode, Brad discusses a negative experience he had recently with the healthcare industry and how that’s helped him view customer service and time differently. One of the major lessons all businesses should take from Brad’s experience is customer service. No one likes waiting, and time is everyone’s most valuable asset. This is why customer service is so crucial. It’s also important to remember that your clients are, in a sense, your boss; you wouldn’t want to be disrespectful to or offend your boss. Because time is your most valuable asset, it’s important to manage it well. Whether it’s by blocking out chunks of your day on your calendar, having a checklist, or some other plan, figure out what works best for you to manage your time. Don’t waste your time; it’s limited and you can’t earn it back. This is way easier said than done, so one way to manage your time well is to not get sucked into reacting to and putting out the daily fires. Take a moment to assess the situation and then decide the level of urgency and if it’s an emergency and then go from there. Maybe have a time of day when you answer any of your team’s questions and understand the day’s squeaky wheels. Remember to pursue purpose and meaning over success and passion; those will come in time. In conclusion, maximizing your time and your customers’ time is the key to becoming the line they want and choose to wait in.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Customer service is a priority. Brad’s experience with the healthcare industry has many valuable lessons for all businesses to take away. One of the top lessons is that when customer service is overlooked, it can result in stressed employees, frustrated customers, and a loss of business. Although there are differences between a doctor’s office and an agency, this principle applies everywhere. Your clients are in some ways, your boss; treating them well is a priority. “If every business ran the way a health care hospital or doctor's office runs, most businesses will be out of business.”
Time is your most valuable resource; manage it well. Although everything in the world may be screaming at you to earn money, or achieve success and fame, the one asset that cannot be earned and is often misspent every day is time. The reality is, our time on this earth is limited, so how do we want to spend it? Time management is one of the most important skills a person can ever develop, and it is crucial for agency owners. Don’t make the mistake of underestimating the value of time and time management. “Of all the resources, time is the only one you can't get back.”
Be the thermostat, not the thermometer. As we all know, time management is important, and most people have methods of planning and staying on top of their schedules and tasks, but we all have a million things that pop up every day that demand our attention. When this happens, it’s important to do a quick assessment of the situation and determine if it’s a real emergency. Be proactive and prepared to deal with these situations and determine how you and your team need to spend your time, otherwise you’ll spend all your time being a firefighter. “Be the thermostat, not the thermometer.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:31] Bob opens this week’s episode with a discussion about production.

[2:48] Bob introduces the topic for this episode, time management and lessons to learn from the healthcare industry.

[3:16] Brad talks about productivity and how he spends his time along with his struggles with time management.

[6:47] Brad breaks down his recent experience with the healthcare industry and launches a discussion about the lessons all businesses should take from this experience. “There are two things that will bring people back to their health care providers. Number one is empathy, and number two is time.”

[9:17] Ken says that, “if every business ran the way a health care hospital or doctor's office runs, most businesses will be out of business.”

[11:11] Brad elaborates on his challenges with his recent experience and talks about his empathy for the dentist as well as his shared struggles. “I struggle with the same thing. I struggle with trying to run a business and also making sure our clients are satisfied and feeling like they’re serviced.”

[12:52] Bob talks about some of the lessons to be learned from this experience as well as the shift the healthcare industry is having and the allowances that need to be made because of this shift.

[17:17] Ken talks about the value of time and how it is often overlooked as the most valuable resource.

[18:37] Ken says that it’s important to recognize your superpower and to leverage it so that people would want and choose to wait in line for you and your business.

[23:03] Ken talks about the three things a business can do to earn other people’s time. “If you can determine what the problem is, be really really good at solving that problem, and become famous for that problem, you can have a line out your door.”

[27:20] Brad discusses how this experience has impacted how he views customer service and interactions.

[28:37] Brad asks the guys how they manage their time and avoid getting sucked into putting out fires all day.

[29:05] Bob talks about how he uses task lists to motivate him and manage his time

[32:29] Ken says that he is in between Brad and Bob and that he believes, “no matter what your personality is, in order to get something done, you need to focus on it. In order to focus, you need to develop the discipline muscle to not chase squeaky wheels. I do this with my customer in mind. I look at it as, okay, I'm going to decide if this is an emergency or not, not you. In order to have a successful, peaceful, well balanced agency or any service business, you need to take ownership of what you’re going to do and when.”

[34:04] Bob summarizes Ken’s thoughts on how he manages his time. “Be the thermostat, not the thermometer.”

[34:08] Ken talks about the importance of recognizing the process when measuring success by results. “You have to have the awareness of not just measuring success by the result, because the result may not be there.”

[40:01] Bob discusses the book, “The War of Art” by Steven Pressfield and how it relates to this discussion of productivity and time management in the business world.

[43:30] Bob wraps up by talking about the importance of pursuing purpose in order to find happiness, passion, and hopefully success. “Do not pursue success, but actually follow purpose. Don't pursue happiness, pursue purpose, and when you and when you pursue and are involved in purpose and meaning, passion will ensue.”

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Subtitle:

jeopardy countdown plays “Which work environment is best: remote, in-office, or hybrid?” The answer to this question depends on what your goals, growth projections, team size, and personality are. There are pros and cons to all of these methods, and we unpack each of them as well as subleasing, mental health, office dogs, and more in this week’s episode!

Summary:

On this week’s episode, we talk about the pros and cons of remote, in office, and hybrid work. Remote working makes it possible for your employees to have a flexible schedule, travel, and prioritize time with family and friends. In office working provides human connection, team camaraderie, and the potential for higher productivity. Hybrid work environments are a mix of both of these; a happy medium. Any of these methods could work well for your agency, but hybrid seems to be the most optimal. We dive deep on what elements are important to have in an office to create a healthy place where your employees can grow and thrive creatively while being productive. We also explore what the workforce will look like and want in five years as well as the importance of having a holistic perspective for your business. All of these things depend on the goals you have for your business, the size of your team, your personality, and your dreams and desires.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Hybrid offers flexibility and human connection. There are many pros and cons to remote and in office work environments. The beauty of a hybrid workplace is that it combines the positive traits of both of the other methods. Human connection and flexible schedules are important for mental health, and a mentally healthy employee is a happy, productive, and creative employee. While hybrid offers a happy medium, any of these methods could work for you and your business; that’s the beauty of running your own agency! “The hybrid model seems to be the most optimal of all the studies. You can get that team creativity and workflow and face to face, which is really important, but you also get the freedom.”
Future growth and goals for the business as well as team size and personalities impact what work environment would work best for you and your agency. If you are extroverted like Brad, quarantine may have been a challenge and had a negative impact on you and your work. Others who are introverted thrived during quarantine and work best remotely. The future goals for your business, the size of your team, and the personalities of your employees influence what kind of work would be best for your business. “Five years down the road, you have to move into offices. You may stay partially remote, maybe not, you never know. What kind of stuff would you need for sure at that office for your employees to thrive there?”
Have a holistic view of your business. Due to the pandemic, the business world has become more aware of the importance of creating a healthy work environment where employees can thrive and grow creatively while being productive. It’s important to take these elements into consideration when deciding what works best for your business. “I think in order to make a really good, creative, productive, healthy environment, we as business owners have to think beyond just the square footage, desks, and computers.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:42] Ken opens this week’s episode by chatting with the guys about the interview with Rogan and Zuckerburg, technology, social media, and mental health.

[5:08] Ken talks about how humans struggle with addictions to technology and how wisdom and restraint will become increasingly necessary as technology advances.

[10:20] Bob discusses how there are many different ways to run your business as a result of the pandemic. “It's an interesting time, because while there's so many agency owners that have gotten rid of office space altogether, there's some that are going back to the office. And most are doing some sort of hybrid. There's pros and cons to all of those.”

[13:38] Ken talks about the net positive and net negative effects of hybrid and remote work. He also discusses convenience and how often, “as you grow, you learn that convenience is not necessarily serving you.”

[16:35] Bob discusses some of the benefits of a hybrid work environment. “The hybrid model seems to be the most optimal of all the studies. You can get that team creativity and workflow and face to face, which is really important, but you also get the freedom.”

[18:00] Bob says that the best work environment depends on your desires, personality, and management style.

[21:25] Brad asks the guys, “Five years down the road, you have to move into offices. You may stay partially remote, maybe not, you never know. What kind of stuff would you need for sure at that office for your employees to thrive there?”

[22:48] Bob answers Brad’s question and discusses the importance of team size, growth projections, and what the goal of the space is.

[24:42] Brad talks about the possibility of purchasing extra office space and leasing it out until his company needs that space.

[27:23] Ken talks about defining the vision and future goals for the business, size and the cost associated with it, and subleasing.

[30:04] Brad discusses the benefits of subleasing as well as the idea of purchasing and owning a space. “We could have 60% of the office, and then sublease 40%, which actually helps us subsidize our own fees and rent. I also like that there's people, even if they don't work for us, with different ideas and different backgrounds.”

[31:27] Brad talks the guys through a few of the things he’s taking into consideration as he plans for his company’s new office space.

[33:12] Bob asks the guys, “five years from now, what's the workforce going to look like?”, igniting a discussion about what a workplace should look like and how it can become a place your employees want to work.

[35:55] Ken elaborates on what he believes is the ideal work space. “Ideally, people come here because that's the best place for them to work. And they deal with some frictions in life, because it's worth it. You've got everything you need to do a really good, productive day of work that you believe is better than in your bedroom. How do we make this the best place in my employees’ mind?”

[38:54] Bob talks about the importance of taking a more holistic approach to business.

[41:35] Ken closes with a chat about office dogs and says that he tells his kids, “If you want a dog, pray that God changes my heart. Because I can't take a dog right now.”

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Subtitle:

How can you make every project a success? You may be thinking, that’s not even possible, but there’s one technique that’s often overlooked that can do just that. What is that technique you may ask; it’s consumer research! We break down what consumer research actually is, some tools you can use to make it more efficient and affordable, and some other general tips and tricks! This is an episode you won’t want to miss!

Summary:

On this week’s episode of Agency Exposed, we dive deep into consumer research, its benefits, and some tools you can use to make it more efficient and cost effective. Although consumer research may seem like an outdated method or something that is impractical, it is not these things at all! Today’s technology has simply changed the way consumer research is conducted. Consumer research is just as important as it used to be, and it can generate incredible ideas and prevent expensive mistakes. The most important thing when conducting consumer research is to listen to what the customers are saying. Analyze their body language, word choice, and facial expressions to help you understand how they truly feel about a product. In order to use the information you gain from consumer research, you must let go of any biases or opinions about what you or your client believe are the best and listen to what the consumers are saying. “If you’re going to spend a million dollars on a campaign, why not spend 10% of that budget to understand if the other 90% is well spent?”

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Consumer Research is worth it. Focus groups and consumer research is something that you often hear about in business school, but it can seem irrelevant or impractical in today’s world. The fact is, its importance hasn’t changed, but technology has changed the way it's done. Be aware of ways you can use today’s technology to complete consumer research, it’s definitely worth it. Better to spend 10% of the budget making sure the other 90% is worth it, than to spend all of the budget on a failing campaign. “Understanding the mind of the target that you're trying to reach and getting to know not just what you think about them or what you read online, but actually speaking with them and getting hard data.”
Let go. No, not the famous Frozen song. Let go of any opinions, bias, or other thoughts about a product or brand. Simply let the consumer say what they’re going to say. Feedback won’t do anything if you only argue for your point. “Don't get too close to your creative, because if you start doing that you will never create something great.”
Listen to what the consumer is saying. Not only do you need to let go of your opinions and bias, but you also need to listen to what the consumer is saying verbally and nonverbally. Be aware of their body language, word choice, and any signs of excitement or disappointment. Listen to everything with an open mind. “Hear firsthand from the voice of the customer. Listen to their body language that will tell you 80% of what we're trying to get. It's not always what they say, it's how they say it.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:31] Bob opens this week’s episode and starts a chat about California.

[3:05] Bob introduces the topic for this episode, consumer research. “Understanding the mind of the target that you're trying to reach and getting to know not just what you think about them or what you read online, but actually speaking with them and getting hard data.”

[3:44] Brad talks about why he believes consumer research is important as well as the value it can bring to any project.

[5:40] Brad discusses how consumer research has changed due to the rise of the internet and digital marketing as well as the importance of hearing, “firsthand from the voice of the customer. Listen to their body language that will tell you 80% of what we're trying to get. It's not always what they say, it's how they say it.”

[7:15] Bob asks why it’s important to put in the extra effort for consumer research when working on campaigns.

[7:54] Brad elaborates on the importance of seeing products and brands through the lens of a customer and how it impacts them on a daily basis. “If you're going to spend a million dollars on the campaign, why not spend 10% of that budget to understand if the other 90% is spent well?”

[12:27] Ken talks about the hippo effect, as well as the importance of realizing, “most likely you're not necessarily your target customer.”

[13:19] Bob discusses another benefit to completing customer research, “it levels the playing field and gets rid of opinions, desires, subjectivity, all the things that can cause road bumps along the way, especially when it comes to creative.”

[18:56] Brad talks about the importance of letting go in order for the customer research and feedback to have an impact and ignite change. “Don't get too close to your creative, because if you start doing that you will never create something great.”

[19:42] Ken asks, “How much effort do you invest before you do the focus group?”

[19:47] Brad discusses some of the challenges when putting together a focus group.

[22:09] Ken asks if, “an agency could use a focus group for themselves?”

[24:02] Bob asks Brad what tools he uses.

[24:08] Brad dives into a tool he uses, userinterviews.com, and all of the unique benefits and features it has.

[30:55] Brad offers a few suggestions regarding consumer research through userinterviews.com after breaking down the pricing of this tool.

[36:02] Brad talks about a few tips and tricks that have helped him when doing customer research.

[38:07] Bob talks about a simple method of consumer research that he has had success with, surveys.

[40:59] Bob wraps up this week’s episode by, “encouraging everybody to please like, review, or share this podcast!”

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Subtitle:

What do you think of when you hear the word asset? Most people think of stocks, real estate, or some kind of commodity. While all of those things can be a wise investment, those aren’t the type of assets we’ll be talking about. Instead, we’ll be exploring how to build valuable assets and create investments for and within your business. We’ll also talk about verticals, the flywheel concept, business initiatives, AC units, and more on this exciting episode!

Summary:

In today’s episode, we talk about building valuable assets. One way to build a valuable asset is to expand into another vertical. Having a focus and a skilled speciality is important, but it’s crucial to look for another vertical where those skills can be marketed. Most agencies already have a valuable asset, knowledge from their experience. This is something that many businesses highly value. Raising your prices, looking over your fixed pricing, and communicating with your clients are a few ways to prepare for the coming year while also retaining your business. Keep an eye out for any opportunities that may come your way, often, the best opportunities come during harsh conditions, so be ready for them. In this episode, we also talk about the flywheel concept. We believe that this concept is a great system that will allow for healthy growth and the creation of assets. Be aware of the state of the economy and ways you can prepare and invest before it's too late.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Expand into other verticals. Having a niche and expertise is important, but don’t limit yourself too closely otherwise you will eliminate opportunities for growth and diversification for your business. Instead, do some research on verticals you think would be a good fit for your business, and choose a few to expand into. “What are those verticals that maybe you've been considering or thinking about that you can go in and apply the knowledge that you've had success with in other verticals?”
Use your knowledge to your advantage. Everyone’s heard the saying “Knowledge is power”, and when it comes to agencies, it’s also a marketable asset. Take some time to reflect on skills or knowledge your business has obtained and create an asset out of those things. “What is the asset that you're creating? In the agency space, it's knowledge. So then how do you exploit that in a bunch of different places? How do you grow that? How do you protect it?”
Look for opportunity. When trying to create an asset or make an investment to benefit your business, keep an open mind. It’s important to not look for opportunities through a telescope. Diversification is crucial. Whether you’re expanding to a new vertical, starting a new business initiative, or discovering an asset you already have, keep an eye out for opportunities, they often show up during hard times. “This is an opportunity for agencies.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:40] Ken opens this week’s episode with a chat about the weather in England and AC.

[3:32] Bob asks the guys if they’ve seen the impact of the economy for their businesses.

[3:43] Brad talks about how he’s seen a lot of financial preparations for the coming year.

[5:20] Ken discusses how he’s seen a lower level of consumer spending as well as, “opportunity to grow.”

[11:17] Brad talks about the differences between the 2008 era and the state of the economy today. “I think the case right now is that it's gonna be a slow progression of cutting 10% of their fat. And I think that's healthy, because there's always 10% fat you could cut out of your business, and they're just using this as the opportunity to do it.”

[12:02] Bob discusses the opportunity to explore other verticals and how to use the knowledge you’ve acquired as an asset.

[14:44] Brad talks about the importance of having a balance of having a, “mix of clients that will sustain themselves when the market changes.”

[20:26] Bob discusses the opportunity to revisit the fixed pricing on your contracts to help retain clients during the challenging economic times ahead.

[23:41] Bob talks about the wide variety of things most agencies do and the opportunity to pitch them to existing clients.

[24:47] Ken asks the guys, “are there any new business initiatives that you guys are launching?”

[25:02] Brad talks about his business’ new vertical, the trucking industry.

[31:36] Ken discusses Metacake’s business initiative, Dough Capital as well as some of the niches they have that set them apart and provide opportunities for growth and investment. “Over the last several years, we've put together essentially a capital fund for E commerce companies or direct consumer companies of a certain type. We launched that officially, earlier this year. It's called Dough Capital.”

[36:28] Ken breaks down the flywheel concept and how his business uses it.

[40:04] Ken talks about how he views agencies, what he believes their assets are, and how an agency can capitalize on their opportunities and assets. “What is the asset that you're creating? In the agency space, it's knowledge. So then how do you exploit that in a bunch of different places? How do you grow that? How do you protect it?”

[45:16] Ken concludes this week’s episode by asking the listeners, “ Do you have a flywheel in your agency? Do you realize the knowledge and experience that you have the opportunity to create as an asset? And then what are you doing with that?”

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Subtitle:

In part two of our “content marketing - is it worth it?” discussion, we niche down to some things that agencies can do to help their content become more effective and easier to produce. We talk about corn hole leagues, organic rankings, consistency, Southwest Airlines, and more on this week’s sequel episode!

Summary:

On today’s episode, we discuss some tactics and methods that increase the effectiveness of agencies’ content marketing. We look at what makes agencies successful in this area. Consistency is the key ingredient. Instead of solely focusing on the leads that you want your content marketing to bring in, consider the online foundation it’s building for you and how it can help consumers understand who you are and what your brand is all about. While having a spokesperson isn’t always necessary in content marketing, it definitely helps to have a personality. Whether it’s portrayed company wide or through one person, having some kind of personality will help build a connection with your audience, especially if your personality lines up with the beliefs behind your brand. One final tip that works no matter what field or type of content you’re doing, is to figure out what you want to say, why you want to say it, and your opinion on the topic. Create a unique narrative that draws your audience in. Use your content marketing to express your company’s brand, personality, and beliefs. Content marketing can seem hard, but it’s something that can build a long lasting foundation for your brand over time.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Consistency is key. No matter what your content marketing strategy, personality, or brand are, consistency is the key to success in your content marketing. Instead of thinking of your content marketing as a way to get leads or sales, think of it as a way to build a profile, reputation, and online foundation for your business. In any and all forms of content marketing, consistency is key. “The key to everything is consistency.”
Personality builds genuine connection. All humans strive for relationship and connection, but this can be challenging for businesses to do through marketing. One way to make a positive impression is through personality. Evaluate your core values as a company and find a genuine and human way to communicate those to your customers through your content marketing. “People don't connect, and trust just entities, they have to have some sort of connection in order to do that.”
Find a unique perspective that people want to listen to. When your business gets to the point where its content marketing seems to be ineffective or bland, it’s important to get back to the personality and values of your brand. Rediscover the unique narrative that makes people want to hear what you have to say. Find something that you want to talk about that pertains to your business. “I think you have to have a polarizing perspective and a strong conviction around it to make it connect with people.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[1:28] Ken opens this week’s episode by chatting about creating moats for his business and Brad’s cornhole league.

[4:51] Bob talks about last week’s episode on content marketing and introduces this week’s topic, content marketing part two.

[5:26] Ken elaborates on the topic and says, “At the end of the day, how can you generate business? A lot of agencies have said that content is a big part of how you do that. It's thought leadership, it's organic traffic. But is that true? Is content for agencies really effective? What do you guys do?”

[8:33] Brad talks about the value of case studies and how his agency has used them to help land clients and propose business opportunities.

[11:18] Bob discusses the importance of being prepared to play the long game when it comes to content marketing. He also talks about three different personalities and their content marketing strategies. “The one thing they all have in common is that the consistent long game pays off.”

[16:43] Ken asks the guys, “Is it worth doing any content as a brand name?”, launching a discussion about the importance of having a personality and a spokesperson.

[18:04] Brad talks about Apple and Tesla and how people follow them because of their great products.

[18:22] Bob tells a story about an interaction with Southwest and how they’ve developed an online personality as a brand. “People don't connect, and trust just entities, they have to have some sort of connection in order to do that.”

[21:15] Ken discusses the importance of having a profound hook in your content marketing. “A really good strategy is a profound hook. Brands, sometimes are devoid of that, when they're just doing content. And I guess my question is, is it effective?”

[23:59] Bob talks about how, “personality is a shortcut to niching.”

[28:28] Ken discusses a practical way to find your personal core values and brand and how that can help guide your content marketing. “If you were to take what you do, put that to the side for a second,and then write down your personal slogan in context of what you do . It's interesting, because if you do that exercise of writing down your personal slogan, and then you layer it on top of what your business does, that might give you really good guardrails to start producing some content.”

[29:34] Bob talks about another method to doing excellent content marketing, “understanding, the technical side of SEO and organic rankings.”

[31:44] Bob reiterates that, “The key to everything is consistency.”

[33:36] Brad talks about how, “most of our businesses come from relationships,” and the role that content marketing plays.

[34:47] Brad dives deeper into how content marketing impacts the relationships you form with clients and how you’re perceived by the internet. “I think your character is really kind of your initial brand.”

[37:49] Bob advises Brad, and anyone else who doesn’t want to use social media for content marketing, to find a platform where you can be yourself. “Pick a platform and make it an extension of who you are and your personality.”

[43:41] Ken closes by saying that differentiating yourself is key, and it can be hard to differentiate yourself through a website alone, so it’s important to invest in something that will set you apart.

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Subtitle:

Content marketing… one of the more controversial topics in the business world. What is it and is it worth doing? The list of questions goes on. On today’s episode, we talk about the role content marketing plays in branding as well as PR firms, organic leads, social media, results, moats, and more on this week’s episode.

Summary:

On today’s episode we discuss content marketing and its role in branding. Some of the best leads come from organic leads through organic rankings. A way to get organic rankings is through content marketing. Though content marketing won’t get you leads overnight, if you can hang in there for the long haul, it can strengthen your brand, get organic leads over time, and provide a long lasting foundation for your online reputation. It’s crucial to find a way to measure the success of your content marketing efforts, otherwise the situation is like having a financial advisor who doesn’t know which of your investments succeeded. In the end, content marketing isn’t all about leads, it’s about building a brand that can withstand the trials of time.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Branding and content marketing work together; don’t try to separate them. Content marketing is the conversation that goes along with the relationship with targeted audience. Branding is building trust and creating an emotional connection with your targeted audience. Both of these tools, if used together, can create a lasting impact on your target audience, setting you apart from the competition. “I think I believe that good branding must include good content marketing, I don't think you can separate the two.”
Be in it for the long haul. Content marketing, like many things, will not work overnight or bring immediate results. Often, clients’ efforts are directed towards making money today to stay alive for the future. In order to stick with your content marketing and allow it to do what it’s supposed to over time, you need to get out of the survival mindset and be patient. Build a brand, via content marketing, that’s worth more over time. “The majority of your efforts are to make dollars today, not tomorrow.”
Make your results measurable. One of the issues with the way some PR firms and agencies do content marketing is that they do an excellent job creating it but then have no way to measure the results of their efforts. This is frustrating for clients and makes it challenging to understand what’s working and what’s not. Set clear expectations for what the content marketing should do and then find a way to measure the results to provide insight for your clients. “The value of really good agencies in 2022 and what's going to set you apart from other agencies is complex and accurate attribution.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:31] Bob opens this week’s episode with a chat about the guys’ vacations.

[7:33] Brad begins a discussion about the topic for this week’s episode, content marketing.

[10:19] Bob talks about the difference between social media and content marketing which starts a discussion about different ways to do content marketing. “Because there's content marketing. And then there's social media. And sometimes they're the same. And sometimes they're not even close to the same.”

[11:03] Bob discusses the important connection between content marketing and branding. “I think I believe that good branding must include good content marketing, I don't think you can separate the two. And in today's age, branding, part of branding is about building trust in your brand, and creating that emotional connection… In today's world, everybody's online, and if you don't have any type of content to connect with, you're not really doing branding, if you're not doing content marketing today.”

[13:49] Bob talks about how content can help you get organic leads via organic rankings.

[14:38] Brad discusses some of the challenges he deals with when dealing with clients, PR firms, and their content marketing. “I think modern marketing companies are like financial advisors to their clients.”

[20:49] Ken talks about how he is, “trying to figure out, is the time I put into content worth it?” [24:04] Ken creates an analogy about how he sees content and its role in marketing.

[30:00] Brad talks about how many companies focus on making money today versus making money tomorrow and how that impacts their content marketing. “The majority of your efforts are to make dollars today, not tomorrow.”

[33:14] Ken says, “a good brand is the only moat you have.” and content marketing is one of the shovels you can use to dig that moat.

[43:04] Bob wraps up with a story that shows the importance of content marketing. “In 2022 It's all about content marketing.”

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Subtitle:

Are we addicted to the direct response drug? Most are, and the question is how do you get off of it? Today we talk about the path to freedom while also breaking down digital ads, conversion, and direct response. We also talk about branding, survival mindset, ecommerce, lifetime value, storytelling, and more on this week’s episode.

Summary:

On today’s episode, we talk about digital marketing, conversions, and branding. We break down some of the challenges we face with each of these and discuss some ways to solve them. Often, people view digital marketing as a way to get more conversions rather than a way to improve and advance their business and brand long term. This is because many marketing leaders have a survival mindset, making it challenging for them to see the bigger picture. In order to thrive in the future, you have to prepare for it, something you can not do in the survival mindset. When you convince your clients to get out of this mindset and pursue long term strategies, they can begin to view their branding as a way to create more leads rather than the soul and values of the business. In order to create an effective brand, the business must believe in it and the things it stands for. Once the brand is effective and built, the client can focus on making digital ads and conversions. When direct response begins to fail, it’s important to get back to the basics. What is an ad and what makes marketing work? How can I apply these principles to other tactics to create a compelling ad? Once you remember what marketing is all about, then you can create new tactics with persuasive storytelling. There’s a process to all of this, and mindset, belief, and patience are key.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Break out of the survival mindset. When agencies and businesses start up, they live in survival mode for the first few years. They do this because if they don’t focus on the present, they won’t live to see the future. Many of today’s marketing execs have this same mindset, creating a host of problems. They want instant conversions, not a long run plan. In order to thrive in the future, you have to plan for it and build a foundation. You can’t do that in survival mode. “If you're in a startup, or survival stage, you need to get immediate sales. But it's like every brand is operating in that mentality.”
Believe in the brand. Brand is a key component to thriving in the future. But in order to build a brand, you have to believe in the values of the brand. Without belief, conviction, and passion, the brand is simply a shell of what it could be. “Every client I've worked with just cares about that lead, even if they tell you, “That sounds good. We want to brand our company.”, they don't understand. They just want a brand so that they get immediate responses.”
Remember what works. In digital marketing, sometimes direct response doesn’t convert. With the changes coming to the marketing world, it’s important to know the art of advertising. Keep an open mind and have a curious attitude that’s ready to learn and remember. “ When direct response is not working the way it was, we have to get back to what is it actually doing in the first place and how do we do that?”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken Ott: Co-Founder and Chief Growth Rebel of Metacake, an Ecommerce Growth Team for some of the world’s most influential brands with a mission to Grow Brands That Matter. Ken is also an author, speaker, and was nominated for an Emmy for his acting on the Metacake Youtube Channel (not really). More on Ken:

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[1:04] Bob begins discussing this week’s topic, digital ads and conversion.

[2:20] Brad talks about some of the challenges with digital marketing. “In the end, they judge you on how many leads that were converted right away.”

[3:08] Ken asks why clients seem to care only about the present rather than the future, launching a discussion about the internet and instant conversions.

[4:26] Brad begins a conversation about branding and thought leadership. “Every client I've worked with just cares about that lead, even if they tell you, “That sounds good. We want to brand our company.”, they don't understand. They just want a brand so that they get immediate responses.”

[7:13] Ken talks about the survival mentality most marketing leads have and how that contributes to the lack of a long term mindset. “If you're in a startup, or survival stage, you need to get immediate sales. But it's like every brand is operating in that mentality.”

[9:24] Ken dives into the role ecommerce has played in the survival mentality and how immediate sales are addictive but leave no room for long term thinking.

[11:28] Ken talks about one of the biggest problems he sees in ecommerce. “No one looks at profit until it's too late.”

[16:03] Bob discusses three ways to make branding a strategy for your clients rather than just something that is important or good for the business.

[20:36] Ken talks about the importance of understanding and using the business model and lifetime value.

[22:03] Brad discusses one of the challenges his business faces when pitching the importance of branding. “The challenge with the size of the agencies that we deal with is that the marketing group works for the sales group.”

[25:05] Ken talks about the importance of defining what you mean by ‘brand’ and the importance of believing in the brand. “If the CEO doesn't believe in it, then I think there's a fundamental problem at the business level.”

[28:29] Brad talks about testing branding and how that’s changed throughout the years.

[31:33] Bob discusses how he believes that the business world will go back to some of the older marketing tactics and methods to some degree.

[33:22] Ken talks about the goal of all marketing: recall. “I don't think we realize what's happening when we're doing direct response, especially in digital marketing. We're substituting the recall ability. The ad for impressions.”

[35:20] Bob discusses how the loss of excellent storytelling and creative have impacted digital marketing. He also breaks down the lie that, “people's attention spans have gone down to a few seconds and people swipe. You've got to convert them and get their attention in that.”

[37:57] Ken wraps up by talking about the importance of remembering the marketing that worked when the shortcuts fail. “ When direct response is not working the way it was, we have to get back to what is it actually doing in the first place and how do we do that?”

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Subtitle:

Today we break down various ways we deal with stress and the positive impact challenges they have on our physical, emotional, mental, and spiritual states. Stress isn’t bad. It’s the only way you can grow. But if you don’t frame it correctly, that won’t happen. Exercise, journaling, meditation, drinking water, and finding a creative outlet are all ways you can improve your ability to get the benefits of stress. We discuss all of these topics as well as failure, circumstances, anxiety, balance, and more on this week’s episode!

Summary:

On today’s episode, we dive deep on the ways we manage the stress and anxiety that comes with owning an agency. One of the best ways to view stressful situations from a different perspective is to exercise, and then approach the scenario. The endorphins that are released when you exercise help reset your mind and provide a more positive and clear position. It’s important to nourish yourself physically, mentally, emotionally, and spiritually while also releasing any stress in a healthy way. One of the main things that causes stress and anxiety in the workplace is the fear of failure. Often failure brings pain and shame, two things that no one ever wants. Although failure can be painful and it can seem counterintuitive, we must experience failure in order to succeed. Embrace failure, and become immune to the stress, anxiety, and emotions it can bring. There’s no silver bullet that can eliminate all stress and anxiety, but we have seen the positive impact on our lives, and believe that there are healthy ways to deal with the stress and anxiety from the workplace.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Exercise has a magical effect on stress. A runner’s high is a brief, deeply relaxing state of euphoria that releases happy hormones into your brain that often eases stress and anxiety. Any kind of exercise can release these happy hormones, reducing stress and allowing for a clearer mind. It’s like magic! “If there's a stressful situation and you go for a workout or a run, on the other side of it, you will see that situation much differently. It's magical.”
Journal, meditate, and drink water. There are many ways to reduce stress and anxiety but journaling, prayer or meditation, and drinking water are some of the things that have had the greatest impact for the guys. Nourishing your body physically, mentally, spiritually, and emotionally as well as finding a way to release your anxiety in a healthy manner are key when trying to deal with and view your stress differently. “The healthier you are, the fuller you are physically, emotionally, spiritually, and mentally, the easier it is for you to be able to sit in those situations and be positive, do what you need to do, and think clearly.”
Become immune to failure. Everyone avoids pain, it was programmed into us, and failure can often bring pain. This is why we often avoid failure. What we should do instead is look for the opportunities that failure provides and not allow ourselves as people to be defined by our failures. “The truth is, if you want to succeed at something, you have to fail at it. You're never going to do it on your first try.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:31] Bob opens this episode with a chat about coffee, lazy mornings, and .

[3:27] Bob kicks off this week’s topic by asking the guys, “What do you guys do and what can we recommend for other agency people to deal with their anxiety and stress? What are some methods and things that they can and should be doing?”

[4:24] Ken discusses the benefits of being physically healthy and how exercise can change your perception of stressful situations. “The healthier you are, the fuller you are physically, emotionally, spiritually, and mentally, the easier it is for you to be able to sit in those situations and be positive, do what you need to do, and think clearly.”

[6:12] Brad talks about how running helps his stress and anxiety.

[12:56] Ken breaks down the importance of drinking water and the impact it can have on your brain’s function and your ability to view and deal with stressful situations. “When you drink the amount of water you're supposed to drink, you feel and think completely differently.”

[16:00] Bob talks about how journaling helps him prepare and reflect as well as the impact it has on his perspective in stressful situations.

[20:33] Brad discusses how his feelings can influence how he perceives a situation and the importance of balance. “I’m trying to hold on to more truths, and rely on a nice balance. Again, your feelings are important, and they're valuable, and they're valid, but you know, they do change.”

[23:22] Ken dives deep on feelings and circumstances and talks about the importance of seeing things for what they are and nothing more. “See things for what they are and nothing more.”

[25:46] Bob talks about the importance of being slow to judge a situation.

[27:25] Brad challenges himself and the listeners to become ok with being wrong. “I think sometimes we go around and we hold so much stress, because we want to feel like we can't be wrong or you can't fail.”

[28:49] Ken talks about the importance of failure. “The truth is, if you want to succeed at something, you have to fail at it. You're never going to do it on your first try.”

[30:09] Ken says that, “You have to become immune to failure in order to grow and succeed at anything”

[32:50] Bob discusses another tactic to help manage stress and anxiety. “Another very important tactic for stress and anxiety is prayer, meditation, and deep breathing.”

[36:15] Brad talks about how it is unhealthy and impossible to take on all of the stress and grief of the world and how that can cause anxiety.

[39:45] Bob discusses the importance of having a creative outlet to release stress. “Edward O. Wilson, I think, was a British philosopher. His quote really explains what we were talking about. It’s “The real problem of humanity is the following. We have Paleolithic emotions, medieval institutions and godlike technology.””

[43:21] Bob wraps up by saying, “What we're talking about is doing things that are human, specifically that only humans can do. So do more human things when you feel stress and anxiety.”

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Subtitle:

Apologies in advance to Marvel fans. Today we break down our kryptonites and our superpowers and how they often tend to be two sides of the same sword. We talk about avarice, ego, lies, psychology, immunity, and more on this week’s special episode.

Summary:

On today’s episode, we discuss the shadow side of our personalities, and how to not allow them to stand in the way of accomplishing our goals and dreams. The first step to do this is understanding who you are, what you’re called to, and what you want. One of the ways you can do this is by becoming conscious of your unconscious. The next step is to build immunity to the things you fear. These fears frequently stem from the unmet standards of your kryptonite. To build immunity, you must consistently expose yourself to your fears. This will help you overcome these fears and begin to break down your kryptonite. It’s crucial to remember that your kryptonite often will have another aspect that positively impacts your life and business. Keep in mind that every sword has two sides.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Remember that your sword is double-sided. While it may often seem like your struggle only brings you down and causes hardship, it’s crucial to remember that there is another side to the sword. It’s also to remember that your strengths also have another side that could cause you pain. Balance and perspective are key. “I like the idea that you can take that struggle and make it a two edged sword. Know your shadow, but also have that understanding that the shadow sometimes is not reality.”
Build immunity. As humans, a key part of our programming is to avoid pain at all costs. This can become unhealthy and stunt growth and prevent change. We challenge each other and our listeners to build immunity to the thing you fear by exposing yourself to it repeatedly, until you aren’t afraid of it anymore. “He started to do things that were clearly going to be massive rejections so that he could build up an immunity to the thing he was scared of.”
Make your unconscious, conscious. Carl Jung, a famous psychologist, has a very memorable and moving quote, “Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate.” If you want to follow your dreams, reach your goals, or understand yourself better, the first step is to become conscious of your unconscious.

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:32] Bob opens today’s freestyle Friday episode.

[0:59] Brad launches into today’s topic when he says, “We've talked about our superpowers in the past, but we've never talked about what is our kryptonite?”

[1:41] Brad talks about his kryptonite, avarice. “It's the feeling that you won't have enough of something, typically time and money.”

[9:23] Bob mentions an experiment that relates to the idea that, “all the time we walk around with two opposite things.”

[16:38] Brad discusses how his kryptonite was shaped by his environment and his decisions.

[22:56] Ken talks about how, “there are turning points in your life where your perspective shifts a little bit.” and how that can influence how you perceive and respond to your kryptonite.

[25:23] Brad also discusses how he is driven by his financial goals and how avarice influences that drive.

[26:54] Ken talks about his kryptonite, ego and achievement. “Ego would be my shadow.”

[36:09] Ken mentions a few stories he was told that have helped him accept and let go of his fear of shame. “Someone who was feeling scared of rejection and sales decided to go around New York City and just start asking people for $100, $1,000, and $100,000. He did this just straight up in order to be rejected, and to build immunity. It’s not really immunity, it's just that we make more of the thing than the thing actually is.”

[38:56] Bob discusses a Carl Jung quote that has influenced how he views his kryptonite. “Until you make the unconscious conscious, it will direct your life and you will call it fate.”

[43:29] Brad adds to the discussion about agreeing to disagree and curiosity’s role in seeing someone else’s viewpoint when he talks about the importance of, “going with your gut and being okay with that and owning yourself, but yet not taking that and putting that on somebody else as a negative thing if they choose something different.”

[43:59] Bob talks about his kryptonite, “the fear of believing some lie that if I allow anything bad to happen to me, or if I go into dark emotions, or hard places, that I'll get stuck there.”

[46:27] Bob discusses the importance of embracing your fear and, “I'm gonna experience it, I'm gonna welcome it, and I'm going to let it pass through me. And I'm not going to hold on to that energy.”

[48:22] Brad closes this episode by saying, “I like the idea that you can take that struggle and make it a two edged sword. Know your shadow, but also have that understanding that the shadow sometimes is not reality.”

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Subtitle:

Today we break down the practical and emotional sides of handling when someone with a leadership role leaves your business. We discuss feelings, redundancies, restructuring, communication with clients, and more on this week’s episode.

Summary:

On today’s episode, we discuss all aspects of what to do when a key team member leaves your business. While having someone leave is challenging, it’s crucial to have a positive mindset and look for opportunities. There are always opportunities. To optimize, improve, and level up. It’s also important to have a record of all processes, tasks, and systems each employee uses so that it’s easier for someone stepping into the role.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Feel your emotions but don’t allow them to influence your perception of the situation. When someone you’ve worked with for a long time hands in their notice, it can feel devastating. In order to make sound decisions, you need to allow yourself to feel the rejection, but don’t allow it to define how you see the situation. Try to look for the opportunities. “See things for what they are, and nothing more. it's not good, it's not bad, it just is.”
Create redundancies and keep a record of all systems and processes. In order to make the transition process smoother, it’s important to build in redundancies such as recording all systems, processes, and tasks that each person does. This can help the new person who is stepping into the role be more independent and confident in their work. “Document every process of everything they do, or what we do as a team, so that it lives somewhere on a Google Drive or wherever. That way anyone coming in knows exactly what processes we use, what the steps are, and who's involved.”
Look for opportunities. The biggest challenges often hold the best opportunities. Use this as a chance to discover opportunities you wouldn’t have found otherwise. A positive mindset and open mind are your friends. “It's a great opportunity to go, could I reshape what I have to refill that role?”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[5:43] Ken introduces the topic for this week’s episode. “When you have a team, losing somebody and then moving on can be really challenging… it can be like it can feel like a giant gut blow… what do you do when you lose a really critical team member?... there's a mental side that you have to get over, which is rejection.”

[10:34] Bob dives into a cold but important truth about business, “Any work environment is not family. And it's very dysfunctional to try to believe it is. And if you are getting your needs met, for family and deep relationships from your work environment, that's not a healthy place to be.”

[15:37] Ken talks about dealing with the feelings of being rejected.

[17:13] Bob discusses the importance of processing your feelings but also being able to give your employees freedom and equip them.

[18:29] Brad talks about how his self esteem takes a hit when someone leaves.

[21:04] Ken discusses the practical side of dealing with the loss of an important employee and the value of being able to, “see things for what they are, and nothing more. it's not good, it's not bad, it just is.”

[24:38] Bob adds to Ken’s discussion and says, “practice being an observer of these things, and not not not trapping them.”

[27:20] Brad talks about the opportunity to rethink roles and restructure your business when someone leaves. “It's a great opportunity to go, could I reshape what I have to refill that role?”

[30:45] Ken starts a discussion about redundancies and their role in helping the transition be smooth.

[31:48] Bob says that he has his employees, “Document every process of everything they do, or what we do as a team, so that it lives somewhere on a Google Drive or wherever. That way anyone coming in knows exactly what processes we use, what the steps are, and who's involved.”

[37:41] Ken imparts some wisdom about dealing with the practical side of someone leaving. “Always think who, not how.”

[41:59] Brad begins a discussion about how to communicate what’s happening to your clients and the importance of timing and word choice.

[49:03] Bob talks about how, “in the music business, and I think in other industries, they have what's called the key man clause.” and discusses the importance of not allowing that to happen in agencies.

[50:00] Ken closes this week’s episode by saying, “it sounds cold, but it's about the business being healthy. The business needs to be healthy and for the business to be healthy, you need to remove as many of those vulnerabilities and diversify things.”

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Subtitle:

Today we break down what things we would do differently in our agencies if we had to start over completely. We talk about the importance of profit, risk, autonomy, partners, dreams, mindset, aging, and more in this week’s packed episode!

Summary:

On today’s episode, we discuss the things we would change about our agencies if we had to start all over, knowing everything that we do now. Risk is a part of life, and your ability to manage the downside of risk lessens as you have more responsibility. When it comes to business, it’s important to take the risks that lead to learnings and rewards early on in your career. Taking risk is important and can profit your business, and it’s much easier to learn and succeed if you are only having to support yourself. Profit is also an important aspect of business and we believe that setting goals for net profit early on will help your business grow and succeed. It’s also important to consider bringing in a partner. Loneliness is very real and can add an additional challenge to starting a business. When you bring in a partner, they can lighten your load and be a support and a listening ear. We also talk about the importance of scale, assets, and delegation. Creating autonomy in your agency can make it easier to take a sabbatical, get a new perspective on your agency, and even start another business. Your mindset is key in this process; think of it as making changes to improve versus fixing mistakes.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Set profit goals. Profit is one of the most important things that a business can create, but it can be pushed to the side when starting an agency. Although it may seem counterintuitive, focus on setting goals for net profit for your business so that you can begin to invest and take risks sooner rather than later. “I would think about profit first. I would figure out exactly what profit I wanted and then build my business around that.”
Learn to delegate. As much as you may love your job, you won’t be able to be heavily involved forever. This means you should begin to set some parameters now to help your agency become more independent. Maybe consider taking a sabbatical. The preparation for it could help prepare your agency for more autonomy later on. “I try to fire myself every day so that I would force myself to build a business with a lot more autonomy. Then I have more freedom to be able to either grow it in a different way and think differently about it or even start a new business.”
Consider bringing in a partner. At first it may seem unwise to bring in a partner when your agency is just starting out and profits are more meager. It’s important to have a partner in the beginning stages as well as later on because they are a listening ear that can help relieve stress, and eliminate isolation. Once you build your agency and have a team, having a partner can also create more opportunities for sabbaticals or agency independence. “I would do more with people. I would surround myself with people, I would be more open to potentially bring in partners, and not think that I had to do it all myself.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[1:27] Bob kicks off this week’s topic and says, “Today, we're going to talk about what we would do differently if we were to go back and do it all over again, what would we do differently?”

[2:32] Brad talks about a conversation he had with his son that has helped him reflect on his job. “My son asked me yesterday, he said, ‘Dad, is the job you're doing right now your dream job?’”

[4:09] Bob mentions how some people have asked him, “What would you have told your younger self? What have you learned that you wish someone told you?” He also talks about how change and personality growth influence your passions and career.

[5:42] Ken talks about one of the main things he would change if he were to go back. “Take business risks… don't chase safety. Chase, the big thing or the big dream that you have that this is what I'm put on the earth to do.”

[10:31] Brad discusses the importance of figuring out who you are when you’re young.

[12:04] Brad talks about his passions and how they directed him to his career.

[15:36] Ken discusses another shift he would make if he started over. “I would think about profit first. I would figure out exactly what profit I wanted and then build my business around that.”

[17:31] Ken mentions his belief about the ideal amount of net profit your business should have.

[20:54] Brad talks about how if he were to start over, he would make his business more autonomous, “so that, you know, after the first five or five years, and didn't really need me anymore.”

[22:21] Brad mentions the importance of not only making business changes but also how there are, “personal mindset changes I would make.”

[24:01] Brad describes how he feels about his career. “I almost feel a little bit of grief.”

[25:36] Bob discusses some ways he has overcome his grief about aging and also mentions a mindset book called, ‘Breaking The Age Code’ by Becca Levy.

[29:04] Ken talks about the importance of a positive mindset when aging. “If you believe getting old is bad, you probably will get there in a slow, decrepit way. If you believe getting old is good, then you probably will get there in a better way.”

[36:35] Brad talks about the balance between challenging yourself with new tasks and having an overflowing plate and none of your work is done to the standard you want it to be.

[38:54] Bob reflects on one of the early Agency Exposed episodes featuring Hannah Paramore where they discussed the importance of having a hobby.

[43:35] Bob talks about an adage and relates it to career and life decisions. “Every time you say yes to say no to something else, you're saying no to something else. And so you've got to really look at that and say, you know, what do I want to say yes to.”

[44:13] Brad asks the guys, “What is the one thing you would change if you could change one thing? What is the biggest change that you would make? Or would you do it at all? Do you think this business is like, wow, I don't know if I'd go back and redo this business. I think I'd might go into something else.”

[44:53] Ken talks about how humans will often focus on the negative aspects or things they need to fix when there is value and opportunity already there. He also talks about one of the main things he would change if he could go back. “I would probably build more towards assets and delegation and scale.”

[49:07] Brad talks about one of the biggest changes he’d make if he was starting over. “I try to fire myself every day so that I would force myself to build a business with a lot more autonomy. Then I have more freedom to be able to either grow it in a different way and think differently about it or even start a new business.”

[50:22] Bob discusses how he would, “do more with people. I would surround myself with people, I would be more open to potentially bring in partners, and not think that I had to do it all myself.”

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Subtitle:

You can only give from abundance. And since you have to give everyday to be successful, you must prioritize YOUR rest… for the good of the ones you serve. Today we dive into the idea of taking a sabbatical. That may sound daunting or unrealistic, but we break down how to support and prepare your agency in practical ways for a sabbatical leave. We also talk about firing yourself, preparing your team, trains, and more on this week’s episode.

Summary:

On today’s episode, we explore the concept of taking a sabbatical. No one is going to reach old age and say, “I wish I had worked more”. In fact, they’ll probably say the opposite! As an agency owner, it’s important to consider your employees’ mental health and keep them from burning out. A sabbatical can provide mental clarity, peace, and new insight into how you run your agency. This “fast from work” also has value for the members of the team who have to pick up the slack. It can provide them with experience, insight, and new skills while also allowing you to analyze your systems and look for unseen cracks in your business. Preparation is a key part of this process. You’ve got to have a hardworking team that you trust, as well as efficient systems and redundancies. With committed preparation, there’s no reason why you and other members of your team shouldn’t take a sabbatical.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Get off the train. Starting an agency is a bit like boarding a train. If you successfully board, it can be really hard to get off the train of working everyday to help sustain your agency. In order to go on a sabbatical and return to a thriving business, the first step is acknowledging that you need to get off the train. Don’t allow the train to burn you out or make you miss out on the important things in life. “We're on this train that we can't get off. We can go to the dining car of the train, and we can go to the reading room, but we're still on the train. These times allow us to get off the train and just kind of sit and think.”
Fire yourself. Once you decide you need a break from the train, you have to begin to fire yourself, reinforce your systems, create redundancies, and prepare your team for an extended period of time without you. While it may be painful to initiate these changes, they will help your agency become more independent in the long run. “We should always be working hard to fire ourselves. Don't make yourself indispensable in your agency.”
You can only give from abundance. Rest and recharging are very important and sabbaticals are an awesome way to achieve both these things as well as other benefits, but there are other options to consider. Four day work weeks as well as hybrid schedules allow for more flexibility and restfulness. The mental health of you and your team is a priority, so don’t allow the thought of taking a sabbatical to eliminate all ideas in that aspect. “How can you institute some sort of rest period, in whatever size business you are?”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[1:55] Bob introduces this episode’s topic, “what does it mean to take a sabbatical and what’s the value of it? I'd love to hear you guys’ thoughts on it.”

[5:30] Brad talks about a memorable question he asked his father. “I asked my father, what's one thing that you regret in life? He said, I regret working too much.”

[6:10] Ken discusses the idea that you “board a train” when you start an agency and how the day to day things keep you from getting off. He also discusses the benefits of having an extended time away from work. “When you can get away from the business for an extended period of time, the clarity that you get is amazing…just you get to restore. You come back and you're inspired. And you kind of have clarity about what you're supposed to be doing.”

[8:56] Bob dives deep on Ken’s train analogy.

[10:50] Brad asks Bob what he thinks the prep for taking a month off would look like.

[12:00] Bob talks about the importance of firing yourself, having systems and redundancies in place, and communicating and trusting your team.

[13:20] Ken ponders the question, “How can you institute some sort of rest period, in whatever size business you are?”

[17:28] Bob talks about the value and experience everyone else gains when a leader leaves for a period of time. “it forces everyone else to step up to the plate and fill in.”

[21:21] Ken asks the guys and listeners, “What would have to be in place for you to be able to take two weeks, a month off?”

[24:34] Ken talks about a few ways to prepare for taking a month off. “I think one one good exercise is making a list of what are all the things that maybe all the things that you do. And then a sub list of like, what are all the things that you do that only you can do.”

[27:17] Brad asks Ken, “if your employees came to you and said ‘Hey, for those who have been here for one year, we want to be able to take one month off, and we're all going to work together as a team to make sure you don't have to do anything.’ Would you be open to that?”

[27:42] Ken discusses the importance of committing yourself to the prep necessary for taking a month off.

[28:49] Bob points out that taking a month off could illuminate weaknesses that you’re not aware of.

[29:52] Ken says that when foolproofing your preparations, it’s important to, “figure out, how do I make decisions? How do I do the things that I do?”

[33:15] Bob talks about how other countries are initiating 4 day work weeks as well as the wisdom behind rest and recharging.

[34:43] Bob discusses the results of a study about hybrid work environments and the benefits.

[37:26] Brad talks about how he’s been breaking his habit of prioritizing work by choosing the opposite.

[39:09] Ken says, “No one sits on their rocker at ninety years old looking back and is like, I wish I had worked more.”

[42:39] Brad discusses the importance of noticing the signs of burnout and taking appropriate action. “If you're feeling like you're just constantly mentally, physically, spiritually, emotionally exhausted, it's probably time to find a little more extended time.”

[43:20] Bob wraps up and says, “We'll continue to talk about this and would love to hear from listeners. Please rank and review and rate and share the program on YouTube or any of the places where you get podcasts!”

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Subtitle:

Today we dive into the world of all things hybrid, looking at how things have changed since the pandemic and whether those changes have had a positive or negative impact on our businesses. We dive into hybrid scheduling, standup, sheds, and more on this week’s episode.

Summary:

On today’s episode, we explore working remotely and hybrid schedules since the pandemic as well as their effects on our businesses. We discuss some of the tools we use as well as some key tips and tricks to help your team all be on the same page. We also talk about the importance of having a healthy culture and atmosphere and some of the ways you can do that with a hybrid team. It’s important to think about how to engage your team and make sure they feel connected, even in small ways. We also dive deep on alternative work spaces and how they could change all businesses in the future. There have been lots of changes in how we work because of the pandemic, and it’s important to analyze the effects these changes have and how to move forward.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Be intentional with your time.

It can be challenging to coordinate and interact with your coworkers when each member of your team is on a different hybrid schedule. This is why it’s important to intentionally set aside time to bond and spend time with your team within and outside of work as well as making yourself available for their needs and questions. “Be intentional about asking ‘what are the things that we can do to keep that culture going’.”

Figure out what kind of schedule works best for you and your team.

Hybrid can make intentional interaction challenging and this is where scheduling plays a role. Once you and your team figure out the best schedule, it will be much easier to cultivate a healthy culture and team atmosphere despite different day to day agendas. “We let people set their schedules when they're in when they're out. But we coordinate our team to be in around the same days.”

Get your team on the same page.

Because of the distance that hybrid schedules can create, ensuring that your team is on the same page is vital. Ken talks about the role that his daily standups with his team played during the height of the pandemic and how it helped unify the team and give them a starting line. “It's way more important if you're remote because you just don't know where the starting line is, and you don't know when you're on the same page.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:31] Bob opens this week’s episode with a discussion about outsourcing and remote work.

[2:11] Bob talks about how 5 by 5 creates their hybrid schedule.

[2:50] Ken talks about his daily standup with his team as well as how they do hybrid scheduling.

[5:00] Ken dives into the importance of his team’s daily standup and the role it played when the team was fully remote. “If you don't have something like that, I feel like there's no start line” “It's way more important if you're remote because you just don't know where the starting line is, and you don't know when you're on the same page.”

[7:47] Bob starts a discussion analyzing the differences between working remote before and after the pandemic.

[10:26] Brad talks about his tech team in Romania. “We've been like a family, I go over there from time to time and break bread and hang out with everyone.”

[15:16] Brad breaks down how his agency, Anthem Republic, does their hybrid scheduling. He also talks about the importance of body language.

[17:47] Brad talks about his project management tools and how he schedules his weeks.

[19:51] Bob talks about the system at 5 by 5 for project management and how his schedule works out. He also asks, “How do you maintain a healthy culture, team atmosphere, all those things in a hybrid environment?”

[22:27] Ken says that ensuring that your hybrid agency’s culture is healthy, “Can be so hard unless you're really intentional. It'll sneak up on you.”

[23:05] Bob discusses some ways to engage your team that will keep the culture going in a hybrid environment.

[25:07] Bob talks about the increased efficiency of hybrid agencies. “I've been on a lot of wasted zoom time. But the other side of the coin is, I think it's counter intuitively made us more efficient.”

[27:27] Ken asks the guys, “ if you had to start from scratch, would you choose everyone in person? Would you you know, just have a hybrid where you have people everywhere?”

[28:50] Ken then asks, “The money that gets spent on offices, is that good? Is that money well spent for an agency?”

[30:29] Brad says that the financial plan for your business is what helps each agency decide if investing into a physical office is best.

[32:22] Bob begins a discussion about alternate work spaces when he mentions his desire for a shed in his backyard that can be his own private office space.

[38:09] Bob says that it’s important to not be in a static environment everyday because, “it goes in line with what we do. People hire us to come up with something different and unique and creative.”

[41:30] Bob says, “We'd love to hear from our listeners. Reach out to us. We'd love to hear what you're doing. Please continue to give us reviews.”

[41:51] Brad wraps up this episode and adds, “Yeah, also make sure you subscribe on YouTube!”

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Subtitle:

Today we’re workshopping a real marketing problem, live. In this episode, we talk about various forms of marketing, other than Facebook, as all kinds of marketers have recently been facing struggles with targeted marketing. We break down unique platforms, diversification, mindset, branding, and more on this episode of Agency Exposed.

Summary:

On today’s episode, we ‘get jiggy with it’ and do a mini marketing workshop. Due to recent increases in privacy regulations, marketers have had to deal with large decreases in targeted marketing. We believe that privacy is important, but suddenly removing a tool that has been relied on by marketers for years definitely poses a challenge. So, in this episode, we discuss the importance of diversifying your marketing platforms and offer some alternative ideas. It’s important to be prepared for the shutdown of a platform and to utilize the resources that are still available on those platforms. The right mindset and branding also play a critical role in marketing, and having both will only help you in the long run. Sometimes, it’s more about the quality than the quantity of your leads.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Diversify your use of marketing platforms. Facebook is where ad companies are the most comfortable. Unfortunately, the targeted marketing that was once offered here is becoming more and more restricted due to privacy concerns. Privacy is important, but reducing the extent of targeted marketing can make our jobs more challenging. This is why it’s important to ask yourself and your clients, “What if Facebook was taken away tomorrow? What would your business look like? And if it's devastation, then you've got no choice but to figure out other channels.”
Utilize the retargeting that is available. While targeted marketing may be limited, there is some retargeting that is still available. Diversification is important, but make sure you and your clients are utilizing all available resources. “Be more creative, intentional, and thoughtful with retargeting strategies. On Facebook and Google you can still retarget just like you always could.”
Quality over quantity. Finding leads has the potential to become more difficult and expensive without targeted marketing. This is why it’s important to have the mindset that quality can surpass quantity. Niching down to the high quality clients, traffic, and leads are what can help your business succeed and grow in a time without most targeted marketing. “It's just a different mindset… it's really not about the volume of people. It's about the smaller number of high quality people, traffic, and leads that you get and really mining those.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:33] Bob opens a Freestyle Friday episode with a brief chat about Yeti versus Ember mugs.

[2:21] Bob begins a discussion about the advertising struggles that digital marketers are running into lately.

[2:34] Brad breaks down the question, “What do you do when platforms start to take away abilities to market to certain audiences that you relied on for clients?”

[5:39] Bob talks about some of the more unique platforms that he’s started using. “At the end of the day, when it comes to first party data, you just have to kind of just shift your whole mindset.”

[9:47] Ken discusses diversification and asks, “What was it like before Facebook?”

[12:14] Brad talks about how he views diversification in marketing as well as the importance of being prepared. “I look at this like a financial investment. Financially, you really want to diversify your investments.”

[16:09] Bob discusses 3 marketing areas that he believes will grow in the next few years.

[19:43] Bob talks about the importance of intentionally utilizing the retargeting that is available.

[20:58] Ken discusses the effectiveness of branding and acknowledges that, “It's just a different mindset… it's really not about the volume of people. It's about the smaller number of high quality people, traffic, and leads that you get and really mining those.”

[24:01] Bob mentions the marketing possibilities when partnering with influencers.

[29:30] Bob says that, “We would love to hear from our listeners! I know that we've had a little glitch with Spotify that we fixed and we got all of our past episodes that were missing. So if you're listening to us and you've got some ideas on how to be more creative with your clients and digital ads, we'd love to hear from you. So reach out to us! You can click on the podcast and email us or just use #agencyexposedpodcast and we'll find you.”

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Subtitle:

Have you ever wondered what goes into preparing for and giving a TED Talk? Being able to give talks on big stages can be a game changer for your agency. On this week’s episode, we dive into Bob’s TED Talk, “From Ambiguous Loss to Tragic Optimism, Journeying Through Our Collective Loss Together”. He breaks down the process of applying, writing, memorizing, and giving a TED Talk on this week’s episode.

Summary:

On today’s special episode, Bob gives us an inside perspective on giving a TED Talk. He walks us through all of the steps he went through to apply, and talks about his experiences that inspired his talk. Bob also discusses some of the challenges he faced such as memorization and technological issues while giving his talk. He dives deep into the content of his talk, “From Ambiguous Loss to Tragic Optimism, Journeying Through Our Collective Loss Together” and discusses his positive experience with his TED Talk coach. Keep an ear out for Bob’s inspiring and exciting TED Talk!

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

You are not alone. One of the sole purposes and themes of Bob’s TED Talk was that you are not alone. Everyone in the world is going through different degrees of collective loss due to the events over the past few years. Loss isn’t something to be ashamed of, it’s something to learn to accept and to grow from. “The purpose of my talk was to let people know that they're not alone.”
Communicate, don’t isolate. While you may think that your struggles are insignificant or are embarrassed about them, communication is key to maintaining a healthy mindset for your personal health, as well as your business’s. Having a community, or even one person, who understands what you’re dealing with can help you feel connected and hopeful. “Isolation is the worst thing that you can do.”
Tragic Optimism will always come. Everyone has heard of the 5 stages of grief: denial/isolation, anger, bargaining, depression, and acceptance. Going through any and all loss is a challenging process. As this process progresses, tragic optimism will finally be experienced. Look for meaning in your struggles, and that’s where tragic optimism can be found. “It's the search for meaning amidst the inevitable tragedies of human existence.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[1:32] Brad opens this week’s episode with a discussion about Bob’s TEDx talk.

[2:23] Bob talks about the title of his TEDx Talk and his experience while giving it. “My title was ‘from ambiguous loss to tragic optimism journeying through our collective loss together’.”

[6:42] Ken asks, “Can we talk about the mechanics of the TEDx Talk? So you got a coach, what was that like?”

[7:57] Bob talks about his great experience with his coach and what attributes he believes make a good coach. “It's less about, like telling you how to do things and more of a support. Someone to be there to, to bounce things off of, and then to guide you along the way.”

[12:24] Bob dives into his TEDx Talk and explains what ambiguous loss is. “There's this phrase called ambiguous loss. There's a psychologist named Pauline Bosch, who coined it back in the 70s. It's the concept of, the feelings of stress and anxiety around either having a physical absence with a psychological presence, or having a physical presence with a psychological absence.”

[18:30] Bob talks about another concept in his TEDx Talk, tragic optimism. “It's the search for meaning amidst the inevitable tragedies of human existence.”

[19:43] Bob discusses tragic optimism in depth and the relationship between ambiguous loss and tragic optimism. He also talks about how the true meaning of life comes from struggles and losses and how there’s no shame in experiencing ambiguous loss. “There's this organic connection between ambiguous loss to tragic optimism. You can't have one without the other. True meaning in life comes from these deep struggles in these hard times.”

[25:22] Ken talks about how character is built from struggles.

[26:06] Bob discusses the challenging experiences that inspired this TEDx Talk.

[28:17] Bob says, “the purpose of my talk was to let people know that they're not alone.”

[30:26] Brad asks Bob when his recorded talk will be available to the public.

[32:44] Bob talks about the ‘mental castle’ concept for learning and memorization and how he applied it to memorize his talk.

[35:20] Bob closes this episode by saying that the guys will let the listeners know when his talk is released. “Hopefully, people got something out of it. And when it releases, we'll let you know. Just keep an eye out for it.”

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Subtitle: As we all are aware, the environment of today’s economy is constantly changing and inflation is a real challenge. Unfortunately, for a business the solution is not as simple as “raise prices”. Because of this, today, we break down how we combat inflation in a special investing episode. DISCLAIMER, we’re not investment advisors, these simply are our opinions. We talk about investing in crypto and real estate, leveraged trades, cutting costs, and more on this week’s episode.

Summary:

On today’s special episode, we dive deep into the world of cryptocurrencies and investing to break down our strategies for hedging inflation. Please keep in mind, we are not financial, business, or investment advisors, so do your own research and talk to your advisors. One of the first things we do to shield ourselves from inflation is to cut unneeded costs within our businesses. It’s important to analyze the efficiency and practicality of every tool in order to eliminate the unnecessary ones. As time goes on, chances are, you’ll have to raise your prices to keep up with inflation. Proactively changing prices can help you hedge against inflation. Investing is also key. Whether it’s real estate, gold, stocks, or cryptocurrencies, any wise investment can help you avoid inflation. While cryptocurrencies can yield big rewards, they do so at a high risk.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Stick to your investment plan no matter your feelings. Once you decide where you want to invest and have committed, it’s important to not allow your feelings to dictate any changes to your investment. It’s good to know “hey, I should get out of this investment”, but stick to your plan and don’t let a bad day impact your investments. “emotions are tied to money. And you have to become, when you're investing, you really have to have a plan. Use data and your experience to make decisions. And you have to follow those decisions.”
Choose which crypto you invest in wisely. There are lots of coins and cryptocurrencies out there, and it can be challenging to decide what you want to invest in. While Bitcoin is unique and can be compared to gold, most coins are like technologies. Be thoughtful in how you invest in crypto, if you decide to, and make sure your general investments are diversified. “look at how you can keep a safe and balanced portfolio.”
Wait to invest until everything’s wrecked. Warren Buffet’s saying, when other people are fearful, that's when you buy, is one of the most important concepts of investing. While it may initially seem like a good idea to buy something that the media’s talking about, it’s best to wait until the market’s at its lowest to purchase any kind of stock or make any investment. . “do not buy when the media is talking about a stock or a company… you will have to buy when everything's wrecked.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:44] Ken opens this week’s episode by telling the listeners that unfortunately, Bob won’t be on this week’s episode because he’s preparing for a TED talk.

[2:02] Ken tells the listeners that Bob’s TED talk is called, “from ambiguous loss to tragic optimism, journeying together through collective grief.”

[2:50] Brad says that in the next episode, they’ll have Bob unpack his TED talk and dive deep on it.

[3:11] Ken informs the listeners that, “this is not investment advice. This is not business advice. This is our opinion.”

[4:45] Ken asks Brad, “how do you make the most of the money that you have? And what are you doing these days?”

[7:01] Brad talks about how his childhood influenced his knowledge of investing and how “a lot of my investment knowledge comes from just trying things and learning.”

[12:01] Ken asks Brad to walk through a few of the asset classes.

[12:10] Ken also asks Brad how he thinks the environment today impacts crypto and equities. “with all that's going on, in the, in the environment, in the general, macro, economic, global environment, so you've got the Russian invasion in Ukraine? how is that impacting what we're doing?”

[12:55] Brad talks about what he’s doing in his business, and personally, to hedge inflation.

“I'm looking at anything that we can cut out of our budget personally and for my big business, anything that's extra”

[15:37] Ken discusses what he and his team are doing to shield themselves from inflation. “we're increasing prices… But also cutting things out.”

[20:09] Brad breaks down one of the most important investing principles. “when other people are fearful, that's when you buy… do not buy when the media is talking about a stock or a company… you will have to buy when everything's wrecked.”

[25:23] Brad discusses the importance of understanding your investing strategy and not making emotional decisions when investing. “emotions are tied to money. And you have to become, when you're investing, you really have to have a plan. Use data and your experience to make decisions. And you have to follow those decisions.”

[26:33] Ken asks Brad if, “There are any other coins that you're invested in that you think are stable and that are smart investments?”

[29:23] Ken explains that most coins are technologies.

[29:33] Brad explains the difference between most cryptocurrencies and Bitcoin.

[30:28] Brad breaks down his crypto investment makeup and explains why he invested the way he did.

[36:20] Brad dives deep on crypto and leveraging trades.

[39:07] Ken asks Brad, “what about physical assets, specifically, real estate?”

[41:51] Ken discusses his belief that agencies should be shooting to make 30% profit and how that could help combat inflation.

[43:40] Brad talks about the importance of having a mindset that understands, “you live in a world where prices are always going to be much higher.”

[47:24] Brad discusses his most important takeaways regarding inflation and investing.

[50:34] Ken closes this week’s episode. “Hopefully, this is helpful. Again, it's not investment advice. And next time, we'll have Bob back here and we'll actually get into his TED talk.”

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Subtitle:

Today’s episode features a special guest, Erik Jensen, Chief Strategy Officer of Predictive ROI. Predictive ROI is a thought leadership and content strategy business that helps agencies, consultants, and coaches create smart solutions while digging deep into their client’s systems and goals. We chat about what it looks like to discover your superpower as an agency and how to leverage that to intentionally and strategically grow your business.

Summary:

On today’s exciting episode, featuring special guest Erik Jensen, we dive deep into superpowers, thought leadership, and how to monetize thought leadership. Erik tells us about his unique background as well as how Predictive ROI came about. Predictive ROI helps agencies, consultants, and coaches develop thought leadership and monetize it by niching down to their special “superpower”. In order to profit from your superpower, you first have to identify it. Erik breaks down some important questions and perspectives to consider when trying to find your special power. Once you know where your specialty lies, content generation and having a body of work are key players to consider when monetizing your thought leadership. There is no such thing as a “silver bullet” strategy that will fix everything or make you wealthy overnight. It takes work, intentionality, and strategy to build a strong business. Erik advises agency owners, consultants, and coaches to not allow fear to dictate business strategy, because then you’ve lost before you’ve even begun.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Discover your superpower. In order to monetize your thought leadership, you have to be known for something. And to do that you first must know where your greatest strengths lie. Erik offers 3 questions to help identify your “superpowers”. These three key perspectives can help you categorize and analyze your business differently to determine where your true strengths exist. “What are the problems that you solve? What is your superpower?.”
Content creation is key. Once you know completely what your powers are, content creation is the next step. Consistency and accessibility are crucial. Erik advises listeners to “fill it (the online vacuum) with content of your own making and direction before others fill that vacuum for you.”
Leverage a framework. Content creation is hard and time consuming. Knowing how to make the most of the time you spend here is the key to success. Erik and Predictive ROI have multiple resources, referenced in his profile and at the end of the podcast. Use these free resources provided by the professionals of thought leadership to help your business to evolve smartly. “It does not happen overnight. This is not a silver bullet strategy. This is not a ‘get rich quick’ scheme. This is a ‘building a business with intention’ strategy.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About our Guest:

Erik Jensen: The Chief Strategy Officer and co-founder of Predictive ROI, a company whose thought leadership & content strategy is for smart Agency, Coaching, and Consulting leaders who want even smarter solutions. Our clients are incredibly brilliant business leaders who know that if something promises quick and simple, it likely won't last for the long haul. So when we work together, we dig in deep to learn your business, your systems, and your goals.

Learn more about Predictive ROI at predictiveroi.com
Predictive ROI on Facebook
Erik on LinkedIn
Predictive ROI’s podcast, Onward Nation

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:32] Bob opens this week’s episode by introducing this week’s special guest, Mr. Erik Jensen. He's the chief strategy officer for a company called Predictive ROI.

[3:01] Erik explains what Predictive ROI’s mission is as well as his unique background, his business partner, and how Predictive ROI was formed. “We help agencies, coaches and consultants build a position of thought leadership and then monetize it.”

[7:09] Ken asks Erik about his pivoting point in his business, and what pushed them to evolve.

[7:37] Erik explains the process of Predictive ROI’s transition from serving any client to niching down and working with agencies, consultants, and coaches. “We offered guaranteed contracts where we would say, we're guaranteeing you that you will get you know, 2x or 3x or 4x return on the investment with us. Then we learned something else, which is sometimes we don't have control.”

[11:01] Erik gives a key piece of advice to all agency and business owners, and explains why he believes it’s important. “I think if there's any one lesson that I would like to tell anybody who's just new to running a business, I don't care if it's agencies, coaches or consultants or something else. Go narrow, fast.”

[11:54] Erik breaks down the meaning and reasoning behind why agencies often try to help every client that comes their way.

[12:43] Ken asks Erik, “Why agencies, coaches and consultants, like why did you decide to niche down in that way?”

[14:02] Bob asks Erik what his role is and how he serves his clients.

[15:04] Erik explains one of the key concepts of thought leadership. “Thought leadership is really about staking your claim, and we call it planting your flag, planting your flag of authority in the space that you want to own.”

[19:37] Ken asks Erik to “walk us through the questions that someone could ask themselves to identify here's the flag that I should be planting.”

[20:19] Erik discusses the importance of identifying “What are the problems that you solve? What is your superpower?.” He also discusses the three main categories to analyze when trying to establish what your superpower is.

[24:53] Erik creates a unique analogy that explains and dives deep on leveraging your superpower.

[26:13] Erik talks about one of the ways that Predictive ROI ensures that their clients are in a position to identify their superpower ability and have buy in.

[29:29] Ken asks Erik what his tips are for content generation.

[32:04] Erik talks about how he implements systems to help with content generation, but even more importantly, “your best salesperson is you.”

[38:38] Erik breaks down his daily schedule and tasks.

[41:35] Bob discusses his experience with content creation.

[43:03] Erik explains his perspective on content generation and talks about the importance of filling the inherent vacuum online, “with content of your own making and direction before others fill that vacuum for you.”

[43:03] Erik also discusses the value of having a body of work, and how it can help build trust with your clients. “It does not happen overnight. This is not a silver bullet strategy. This is not a get rich quick scheme. This is a building a business with intention strategy.”

[45:45] Erik talks about all of Predictive ROI’s resources to help you monetize thought leadership. “Hop over to predictive roi.com. We have the weekly free q&a. We also have a book on this, which outlines it a little bit more clearly. You can get it for free at predictive roi.com/free-book And it really is free. It's not one of those like, pay shipping and handling or whatever

[47:29] Erik closes with a final piece of advice, “Don't let fear dictate the strategy of your company.”

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Subtitle:

And the myth-busting continues! On this week’s episode, we continue to analyze and debunk some of the most common myths in the agency world. We break down RFP’s, hiring, size, Cancun, creativity, trendsetting, and more in this week’s episode!

Summary:

On today’s episode, we discuss some of the top myths in the agency world, from an agency’s perspective, and the client’s. We believe that it’s important to debunk these myths not only to expose the truth about agency life but also to dig deeper and understand the reasoning behind the myths and how they influence businesses today. Keep in mind, this episode is all about our personal opinions and experiences with these myths. The goal of these mythbusting episodes is to help our listeners form their own opinions about the validity of these myths, and help them achieve success.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

RFP’s are not the best ways to find an agency. We personally don’t believe that RFP’s are the smartest or best way to find an agency. Think of hiring an agency like hiring an employee. While their experience and education do play a part in the hiring decision, their personality and ability to do the specific job does even more. Having a competition between agencies won’t help you hire the agency you’re most compatible with, and the relationship with the agency you end up hiring can often be awkward due to how the relationship started. We’ve dedicated a whole episode to RFP’s here, so if you missed it, go check it out! “There's a lot of waste in RFPs.”
Size of your agency can matter but often doesn’t. The old corporate adage, “No one ever got fired for hiring IBM” is where we believe the myth that “big agencies are the only ones that big brands hire” came from. Because of this saying, many businesses associate large size and high price with high quality work and valuable experience. While some large companies truly need large agencies to help them with their projects, leaner agencies do have a chance too. The thing companies are looking for is trust and confidence in the team they hire, and size is only one way to judge that. “Instead of focusing on the size of an agency, I think you need to be focusing on what's the best fit, and the best solution for my problem.”
Creativity isn’t limited to one geographic area. Although NYC, LA, and Chicago may traditionally be known for their creative design, creativity is everywhere. If you’re looking for someone to help with design, don’t just look for people in large cities; look for the person that you will work well with and will do the job you need them to do best. “You’re not really limited to a geographic area.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:45] Bob opens this week’s episode by announcing Brad’s new youtube crypto channel, RADMAX Crypto.

[2:31] Brad talks about how crypto will get hit by the Ukraine-Russia tension.

[5:41] Ken discusses how the guys are, “going to do a bunch of episodes where we collect myths that people send in or that we find, that we hear, that we know of, and we're just gonna see if they’re true or not.”

[6:01] Bob brings up the first myth, “An RFP, request for proposal, is the best way to find an agency.”

[6:56] Brad talks about how he’s seen and experienced the negative side of RFP’s. “There's a lot of waste in RFPs.”

[12:22] Bob asks the guys, “If the myth is “an RFP is the best way to find an agency”, what is our opinion on a better way?”

[16:35] Ken discusses how he believes that agencies should be hired in the way employees are hired rather than through RFPs. “An RFP doesn't let you know if you like them.”

[20:19] Bob begins the discussion about the next myth, “Only big agencies can really provide and do a good job and what I need.”

[20:42] Ken says that the size of the agency can matter when it comes to certain size companies, but more often than not, clients associate size with reliability and experience.

[22:30] Bob proposes an alternative perspective for clients to consider. “Instead of focusing on the size of an agency, I think you need to be focusing on what's the best fit, and the best solution for my problem.”

[26:53] Brad talks about how he teams up with other agencies in order to win bigger clients and a few of the advantages of being a larger agency.

[28:12] Bob mentions the next myth, “the best creative only comes from LA, New York, or Chicago.”

[29:02] Brad discusses how there are differences in agencies in different cities but how when he moved to Nashville, he saw a lot of creativity here. “It's like creativity meets corporate.”

[31:20] Brad talks about how the improvements to and accessibility of technology has made it easier to compete with larger agencies.

[32:26] Ken asks, “Where do you get the trendsetting creativity?”

[34:23] Bob talks about how he believes trends were made previously and how technology and culture have reversed the trendsetting process.

[37:12] Ken says that busting these myths is important because not only can you express the true nature of agency life, but also, “digging into the reason behind them is where you can learn some things.”

[37:30] Bob summarizes the agency myths and the truth.

[38:09] Brad closes this episode by reminding the listeners to “Go to Agency Exposed on YouTube, slap up the likes and subscribe. There's a little notification button. If you click that you'll get all of the latest videos from Agency Exposed.”

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Subtitle:

Welcome to the 100th Episode of Agency Exposed! The agency world is riddled with myths and assumptions, and today we’re going to begin a series of episodes where we test some of the most widely believed myths about marketing, advertising, and agencies in general. We debunk some of the top agency myths and more on this week’s exciting episode.

Summary:

On today’s episode, we begin to explore some of the myths people believe to be true about agencies. We’ve gone out to our listeners as well as the Google machine to find some of the most common beliefs and assumptions about marketing agencies. We break down many myths in today’s episode. Thank you to our listeners for your support, we can’t believe this is our 100th episode!

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

The best creative doesn’t always win. Though you may have poured your heart into a creative project for a client, they may hate it or it simply may not work in the real world. This is why it’s important to remove any emotional attachment to your work before shipping it off. And that isn’t easy. It’s also important to have data that backs up your decisions, creating valid reasons for your client to accept or pick your project. “I always thought that great creative would always win. Meaning if you were doing a campaign for a client, the best creative was always going to win.”
Agency life shouldn’t be chaotic and toxic. When you think about agencies or agency life, do you immediately think, late hours and toxic co-workers? While that may be the case in some older agencies, healthy agencies have a positive environment and want their employees to avoid burnout and stay healthy. It’s all about great leadership and leading the client vs the client leading you. “that agency life is chaotic, and you work long hours, and everybody's cutthroat.”
Agencies can’t solve every problem. It’s important to remember that agencies aren’t a magic fix for every problem. Nothing is ever fully guaranteed. You can hire the best agency in the world, but if your product doesn’t work, there’s no need in the marketplace, or your business model is off it just won’t work. You don’t hire an employee based on a guarantee of how they’ll help you, you’re hiring them based on their character and experience. It’s the same situation when you hire an agency. “There's a perception that an agency is going to come in and they're going to solve my problem and they have the ability to do that. No matter what.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:32] Bob opens up the 100th episode of Agency Exposed, with a brief chat about Tim Horton and ice hockey.

[2:47] Ken begins today’s discussion about mythbusting by brainstorming some myths about agencies and agency life.

[4:15] Brad talks about his myth and explains why it’s a myth. “I always thought that great creative would always win. Meaning if you were doing a campaign for a client, the best creative was always going to win.”

[8:57] Ken discusses the importance of being able to detach yourself emotionally from your work and allowing things to roll off of you.

[12:55] Ken googles some common agency myths and breaks down two, “do marketing agencies pay well, and do marketing agencies make money?”

[14:12] Ken talks about the average profitability of agencies and why having a heavy human capital can be an issue. “How do marketing agencies make money?”

[16:18] Ken discusses some of the potential negative aspects of working for an agency and compares them to his ideal agency situation. “We want a consistent team that builds over time. We want a balanced team that is not overworked.”

[18:39] Bob talks about how working for an agency provides numerous opportunities for growth and education as well as other benefits. “I would argue there's no better place to get that type of business life experience.”

[20:37] Bob discusses his myth, “that agency life is chaotic, and you work long hours, and everybody's cutthroat.”

[27:15] Ken breaks down another myth and talks about the importance of balance.

[28:07] Brad talks about one of his key philosophies and applies it to Ken’s myth. “I'm here to win the war, not the battle. I'm there to be an asset, not somebody that's going to care more about the end result than my client as a person.”

[34:47] Ken discusses another myth and explains why he believes it is a myth. “The idea of control, I think, is a myth because there's a perception that an agency is going to come in and they're going to solve my problem and they have the ability to do that. No matter what.”

[41:32] Bob concludes the 100th episode of Agency Exposed by talking about the importance of aligning the client’s definition of success with yours and how that comes into play with Ken’s myth.

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Subtitle:

February 25th, 2022 is the day when Russia launched their initial attack on Ukraine. There are many fears, opinions, and politics circulating, creating a thick cloud that hides the reality of what’s happening in Ukraine; innocent people are dying. In this week’s episode, we stand with Ukraine, we acknowledge that what is happening right now is unacceptable, answer discuss how businesses can help. We share how we believe this tragic war will affect not only the countries directly involved, but also Europe, the United States, and agencies and technology. We also discuss some practical ways, as agency owners and citizens of the United States to help those that are hurting.

Summary:

In today's episode, we strive to understand the effects that this war will have on economies, financial systems, the technological community, as well as the role of the government in the affairs of international companies, and what we can do to help. The first step is in order to help those that are hurting, we must first fix the division in our own country. And it turns out marketing agencies have real power there. How are we to help others if we can’t even help and agree with each other? We must also be wise and mature in the way we speak about our current leader or leaders past. We are only hurting ourselves and our country by damaging their reputation on a worldwide scale. We must learn from the mistakes made, apply what we learn to our own agencies, and grow. The primary takeaway from this episode is that what is happening in Ukraine is wrong, but in order to help fix it, we must first fix ourselves by being wise, mature, forgiving, and most importantly, kind humans.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Be wise and mature; speak respectfully about leaders, specifically your own. Being entitled to our own opinion and having the ability to freely speak our mind is a massive benefit of living in a free country - the United States. However, our words still have consequences, and it’s important to consider how your opinion, as well as a very vocal and negative one, impacts your leader on a public, worldwide scale. It’s in your best interest, whether you like the leader or not, to be wise and mature about how you express your opinions about this person. “We don't have to agree. But we can at least respect each other.”
Gear up; cyberspace is the new battlefield. As crazy as this may sound to some, it is absolutely true. It goes far beyond website hacks. Imagine what would happen if power and internet access were cut off for an extended period of time. How long could you survive? This battlefront is approaching fast and very real, so it’s important to continue educating yourself and growing your experience in technology and cyberspace. “A lot of people view cyberspace as the new, Battlefront. It's like a profound shift when we view that as an actual battlefield.”
Learn from this experience, and apply your findings to your agency. This horrific war between Russia and Ukraine is heartbreaking. One of the best ways we can help is by learning from the mistakes made and not repeating history. Apply what you learn from this war to your agency to promote an open culture and freedom to express opinions respectfully. “But I think learning is critical in this type of thing.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:43] Bob opens this week’s episode by informing the listeners that this episode is a special, current event episode, prompted by the invasion of Ukraine, where the guys will break down how war, cyberattacks, and sanctions impact agencies. “We could talk a little bit about war or sanctions or cyber attacks, and how they might come into play and affect what we do as agency owners and people working in agencies.”

[1:41] Brad contemplates the government’s role in deciding to shut down international companies’ access to and business with Russia, as well as how it will affect other US businesses. “I'm not not saying we shouldn't do sanctions. I just don't know what the effect will be.”

[4:55] Ken discusses an interview he found with Putin and how after listening to the interview, he’s begun to realize that cyberspace is the new battlefield. “A lot of people view cyberspace as the new, like, Battlefront. It's like a profound shift when, you know, when we view that as an actual battlefield.”

[6:57] Ken continues his discussion about cyberspace being the new battleground and relates it to the tech community. “What we don't realize is that as the tech community, being on the forefront is very important. It is like having a strong military.”

[9:25] Bob talks about a conversation he had with a retired veteran recently about how there is a very possible threat, “if Russia and China were to get together and say, we're going to have a plan cyber attack on, you know, countries that oppose us, (the US and other NATO backed countries) it's something to be concerned about and something that we should really prepare for, and it's yes, as agency owners, but also as citizens.”

[12:31] Ken discusses how the idea of casting blame is very detrimental. “It happens a lot inside of our country. It is a cliche that, you know, we appear divided, and so it's really easy to threaten us.” … “The great thing about the US is that you have freedom of speech, and we’re not squelching that it's just wisdom. Like it's not wise to be publicly disrespecting the leader on a world stage.”

[15:09] Bob talks about the importance of working together as a team in order to set a good example for other countries and ourselves as we understand and overcome this crisis. “When we have international threats, we really should show the world, ourselves, and each other, what it looks like to be good human beings and to play as a team.” … “It's a great application all the way down to our businesses.”

[19:06] Ken discusses the positives of being able to speak freely without fear of being punished for your opinion, but advises that one speaks wisely. “We don't have to agree. But we can at least respect each other.”

[22:06] Ken talks about one of the main things he believes we can do in the midst of this crisis.

[26:39] Bob says that one of the most important, practical things we can do is, “At the very least, show some solidarity for the people of Ukraine.”

[27:45] Ken discusses the importance of learning from this experience. He also talks about how it’s important to continue growing and becoming the best at technology when considering that it’s the newest battlefield.

[28:36] Bob mentions that it’s important to be aware of opportunities to help such as, “people who may be displaced out of their home, they don't have opportunities to continue to support their families.”

[29:35] Brad talks about the challenges of truly wrapping your head around the reality in Ukraine.

[31:28] Bob discusses the importance of securing all of your and any clients’ data and info. “Make sure everything is secure. Double and triple check, make sure everything's updated. It's probably a really good time to do that right now.”

[32:16] Ken wraps up by talking about how learning and maturing as a country is the most important thing anyone can do during this heart wrenching time. “I think there's a lot we can learn. Maybe there are some things that we can do. But learning I think is critical in this type of thing. It's sad to see the immaturity, so I would love to see people just kind of mature up so that we can be a united front.”

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Subtitle:

With the beginning of a new year comes the organizing, goal setting, and planning. What is your theme for 2022? What do you want your year to look like for your business as well as your personal life? We discuss our themes for 2022, why we chose these phrases, and what they mean to us. We also talk about how control is an illusion, ambiguous loss, bioluminescent creatures, and our NEW agency myth busting podcast on this week’s episode.

Summary:

What are your goals for 2022, and what is your mindset for the year? One way to organize your thoughts and goals, business and personal, is by creating a theme and or a personal word for yourself. We talk about what inspired our themes along with the importance of mindset, investing in your team, letting go of control, and learning how to live with uncertainty and how they relate to our themes. Keep an ear out for our NEW agency myth busting podcast coming next week!

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Leverage. Seasons are a part of life, and as you grow, you must find new ways to leverage the resources and time you have in order to be more effective at what you’re pursuing. It’s about being a good steward of what you have. Rather than being wasteful, learn how to maximize what you’ve been entrusted with. Personal: “You can lift more, if you loosen your grip.” Metacake: “(Metacake’s is) ‘winter’s my season’. Ideally, you're preparing for the downtimes, so that when the downtimes come, you can not only survive it, but somehow thrive in it. In some ways, there's a lot of opportunity in winter.”
(More) Fun. Work is important and it enables you to provide for others. A work-life-fun balance is also important, and the fun part of this equation is often overlooked. If you didn’t get paid for anything, what would you still be doing? “I live with the goal of doing stuff, but it's always for a return on an investment. And I realized that I'm best when I'm laughing.”
Simplify. Life can be overwhelming and hectic and it may feel like time is slipping away. Sometimes the key is to remember what is truly important. Make time for what is essential or what you enjoy and simplify. “The biggest journeys and the biggest adventures are not out there somewhere to conquer, but they're with the people that I do life with.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:32] Bob opens this episode by asking the guys how they’re doing and a quick chat about fasting and warmth.

[2:21] Brad talks about his phrase from 2021, A New Hope, what it meant to him, and how he applied it to his business. “We were not promised tomorrow, so you gotta rock and roll today.”

[5:17] Ken discusses how learning to live with and above uncertainty is a lifelong journey. He also mentions his phrase from 2021, which is also his phrase for 2022, and why he chose it as well as how he applied it to his business and why it’s important to him.

“My phrase was ‘winter’s my season’. Ideally, you're preparing for the downtimes, so that when the downtimes come, you can not only survive it, but somehow thrive in it. In some ways, there's a lot of opportunity in winter.”

[13:40] Bob talks about how the last few years have brought ambiguous loss for everyone and how embracing that loss (or winter) can bring opportunity. “It's all a matter of perspective, but there is an ambiguity and a loss behind what we have all gone through. And when you learn to love the situation you're in, there are some really cool things that can happen.”

[15:37] Bob discusses the importance of prioritizing and investing in your team’s mental, physical, and emotional health. “We got to stop seeing all these things as individual things in the workplace, but actually, they're collective things that we should be investing in.”

[18:23] Ken mentions a stock buying concept and relates it to the importance of preparing for a season of winter in your business. “The concept in it is this idea that when everything is falling apart for other businesses, if you're ready, that's when the opportunity lies. You have to take that and you have to plan for that.”

[19:14] Bob talks about his phrase for 2021, reimagine growth, and why he chose it, and how he applied that to his life. “I really want to do this, but I figured if this was the safer path to go and be an accountant, and then you're 55 years old, and realize, man, I hate accounting. I think growth looks very different, to every human being, and my idea of growth has changed.”

[22:06] Bob reveals his theme for 2022, simplify. He relates it to Will Smith’s new documentary series, Welcome to Earth. He tells the guys a quote from one of the episodes that helped inspire his theme. “At the end of it, he says ‘until you go into the dark and go beyond the darkness. You'll never see new light and new things that you've never experienced. Not just embrace it, but love it and engage with it.’”

[26:26] Brad tells the guys about his theme for the year, getting jiggy with it. He also talks about why he chose it to be his theme and why it’s important to him.

[28:59] Ken relates Brad’s theme to a question he’s pondered, “If you removed the financial gain from any action that you did, what would you be left with doing?”

[35:26] Ken discusses how the feeling of being in control is simply an illusion, and your productivity will increase if you let go of control.

[36:57] Bob mentions the importance of smiling and how it can positively impact your clients as well as yourself. “When you get on the phone, and you smile, you can hear it and the client can feel it.”

[38:28] Ken talks about his personal word for the year, leverage and how it relates to his theme and his personal and business goals for 2022. “You can lift more, if you loosen your grip.”

[45:04] Bob wraps up this week’s episode by telling the listeners, “We're going to start a new series. So tune in next week. We're going to start talking about the myths of agency life and we're going to do some myth busting.”

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Subtitle:

Time… it’s our most limited resource. The older you get, the more you’re responsible for, the more goals you have, THE MORE IMPORTANT IT IS to be intentional with what you spend your time on. You can’t get everything done, so how do you make sure you get the highest impact things done (ps - not the most urgent things)? And inevitably, you can’t get everything done, so how do you be intentional about what DOESN’T get done? We dig into how to make the biggest impact with your time in this episode.

Summary:

On today’s episode we talk about how we spend our time on what matters. In order to do that, you first need to identify a few key things about yourself. It’s also important to remember that although many situations in the agency world may seem like emergencies, real emergencies are rare, and freaking out won’t help. Time management is not solely for business but rather it should be a part of all aspects of your life. Mindset and intentionality also play a big role in making time for tasks that may not be urgent, but are still important. We also discuss some of the practical tools we use for time management and prioritizing tasks. Time management is important, so let’s make it a priority for 2022.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Figure out what you want to dedicate your life to. While recognizing what you want to do with your life can seem like a tall order, knowing what you want can help you prioritize your tasks on a daily and weekly basis. “What do you want to dedicate your life to? When it comes down to all the urgent things that come up, do you want to look back and have regrets? What do you want your life to be?”
Prioritize tasks and plan your schedule around your creativity zone. After you know what you want your life to be, the next step to prioritizing your tasks is figuring out your personality, what fulfills you, and what time of day you are most creative and productive. Once you’ve got that figured out, then you can prioritize and organize your tasks based on importance, urgency, level of personal fulfillment, and the amount of creativity that is required. “You have to know what time of day so then you can know how to time block your weeks.”
Freaking out helps no one, so don’t do it. In the agency world, “emergencies'' are frequent, stressful, and demanding. Yet after some examination they turn out to be not-emergencies after all. In order to navigate the real emergencies, you and your team must use the not-emergencies as an opportunity to practice having a calm mind. Promote a culture of planning and calm. Don’t ride the rollercoaster of emotions your clients may be on. “Freaking out, is not gonna help. You do what you can do, and you do it with a calm mind.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:32] Bob opens the first episode of 2022 by asking the guys about how their years ended.

[3:52] Ken introduces this episode’s topic. “I think it's a good thing to rethink stuff. I know for me, it's like how do I spend my time, money, and resources more wisely, and do a better job this year?”

[5:06] Brad talks about one of his challenges with time management and asks the guys how they resolve their time management challenges. “One of my biggest challenges with time is that I've always got a squeaky wheel somewhere and it takes me away from what I need to be doing. That's probably my biggest frustration with time management. And I'd like to hear a little bit about how you guys get around that”

[7:01] Ken discusses a question he was asked that helps him prioritize. “What do you want to dedicate your life to? When it comes down to all the urgent things that come up, do you want to look back and have regrets? What do you want your life to be?”

[10:07] Ken talks about how often the “emergencies” in the business world aren’t real emergencies and how he has trained himself and his team to respond to those situations. “Freaking out, is not gonna help. You do what you can do, and you do it with a calm mind.”

[11:10] Bob mentions the importance of understanding yourself and how you function in order to achieve your goals for time management.

[14:10] Brad talks about how time management isn’t solely for business, but rather, “Your time management is really important to what you want your life to be as a whole, not just your business.”

[17:28] Brad asks the guys, “I feel like I wasted a lot of time. How do you guys deal with that?”

[18:58] Ken talks about the importance of being intentional about prioritizing tasks and having accountability to put some skin in the game.

[22:01] Brad discusses how he tries to protect his time and how that stems from his personality type.

[23:17] Bob talks about the challenges of protecting your time, “not just for yourself, but from other people in an agency world. There is a tyranny of urgency, not just in your own brain and anxiety, but your staff, your clients, everybody's pulling, saying, hey, I need this yesterday”

[23:54] Ken talks about what he’s done to create a culture of de-urgency in his business. “Freaking out helps zero people, right?”

[27:32] Bob asks the guys what practical tools they use for time management.

[27:38] Ken says that one of the biggest tools for himself is a coach. He also talks about how he uses the Eisenhower matrix to prioritize tasks.

[32:57] Ken talks about how, “The reality is, there has to be some sacrifice.”

[33:25] Brad discusses his project and time management tool, Asana.

[36:11] Ken talks about how to plan tasks according to your creative flow. “You have to know what time of day so then you can know how to time block your weeks.”

[39:44] Bob talks about the impact consistency and your daily morning ritual can have on your time management.

[42:44] Ken mentions a cycle by John Ortberg that describes how time management usually fails and how he breaks it.

“It starts with over commitment, and then it goes into fatigue, and then it goes into guilt and shame, and then that goes into quitting.”

[44:17] Ken wraps up by talking about how he uses his business’s morning standup to “help align everybody else around what they're supposed to be doing that day, rather than just leaving it to chance so it's more like a team game plan.”

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Summary:

On today’s episode we talk about the New Year, and some of the things we’re doing to create growth and success in our businesses. As time goes on, technology advances. It’s important to understand what the metaverse is in order to adequately prepare for it. The past two years have been challenging and have brought about a lot of changes. Although it may seem like a disadvantage, use this season to find opportunities for your agency, and prioritize them so that they can be efficiently accomplished in 2022. Don’t forget to check out our giveaway! Details on how to win are in the show notes. We at Agency Exposed wish you a Merry Christmas, and Happy New Year! Let’s show 2022 why winter is our season.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

View winter as an opportunity. Although many people think of winter as dreary, lonely, and uncertain, remember that there are abundant opportunities in winter; you just have to look for them. Find the window of opportunity in the winter of your business. “When most people see winter, they're scared they see uncertainty and that's normal. But you can be one of the rare few that see it as an opportunity.”
Educate yourself about the metaverse. How can you prepare for something you know nothing about? The answer is, you can’t. In order to be ready for the future of digital marketing, you need to learn as much as you can about the metaverse, and search for future opportunities for your business there. “It's a convergence of all types of things online.”
Take time to organize your priorities for 2022. Although most people set New Year’s goals, more often than not, they’ve been forgotten or pushed to the side by the end of January. To avoid making a “goal”, take the time to sit down and brainstorm with your team to think about what you as a business want to do to promote growth and success in the new year. “What are you going to prioritize in your business?”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:53] Ken talks about his team’s Christmas party and their company theme for this year, “winter is my season.”

[2:30] Ken explains what “winter is my season” means, and why Metacake chose it as their theme. “When most people see winter, they're scared they see uncertainty and that's normal. But you can be one of the rare few that see it as an opportunity”

[4:22] Bob tells the listeners how they can win the winter is my season sweatshirt giveaway.

“Tag us and use the hashtags #winterismyseason and #agencyexposedpodcast on social media and promote about one of the episodes that helped you and your business.”

[5:28] Bob talks about all of the radical shifts that have occurred over the last two years.

[7:11] Brad asks the guys, “What's your window of opportunity in 2022?”

[7:14] Bob discusses the negative impact digital advertising has had on many businesses recently and how he believes it has ignited the question of what will digital marketing look like in the future. “What are you going to prioritize in your business?”

[9:10] Ken talks about some of the things his business is prioritizing in the upcoming year.

“we're moving into a capital arm of our business…and we're actually doing our first NFT marketplace.”

[12:26] Brad discusses what he sees his business focusing on next year. “I see this next year as partnering with some other agencies from around the country.”

[16:23] Brad talks about the difference between visionaries and opportunists by comparing Elon Musk to Mark Zuckerburg.

[19:18] Bob gives his definition of the metaverse. “It's a convergence of all types of things online.”

[22:03] Ken asks the guys how to guide a mid size business as they’re seeking help in understanding and preparing for the metaverse.

[23:15] Bob talks about what he believes will be the future of marketing.

[27:01] Ken asks, “What are some practical steps that agencies can take to educate themselves?”.

[32:56] Brad talks about an impactful statement by Steve Jobs and how that’s influenced his view of the importance of practicality of technology. “Steve Jobs said one thing that always resonated with me. He said, “we don't try to sell something based on features. We sell them on how that product will change somebody's life. And then Zuckerberg did that video. He never showed how it's going to change people's lives. It was just for entertainment.”

[35:00] Bob talks about some of the positive outcomes of the metaverse and begins a conversation that contemplates some of the creative applications of the metaverse.

[43:07] Ken discusses how technology doesn’t necessarily cause the issues, but rather it accentuates and increases them.

[46:20] Ken, Brad, and Bob wish the listeners a Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

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Summary:

On today’s episode we talk about inflation and how to prepare your business for it. With the new year right around the corner, it’s important to take time to consider what inflation will look like next year, and what modifications you need to make to combat it. It’s important to check on your profit margin and see what investment options are available that could help your cash’s value keep up with the inflation rate. Please know, we are not financial advisors, so please contact your real financial advisor to go over some options that could help your business with inflation. As a business leader, your mindset matters. Although it’s tempting and easy to slip into a lack mentality, try to find the silver lining and stay hopeful. With some preparation, inflation doesn’t have to be as scary as it sounds.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Be proactive. When it comes to inflation, or any other finance issues in your business, don’t just sit back and react to what’s happening. As a business leader, you instead should actively look for ways to limit the negative impact inflation can have on your agency. “You're not reactive, but you're proactive.”
Make sure your cost is efficient. Cost is one of the most important aspects to consider when preparing for inflation. Keep an eye on your cash flow and deal with any potentially threatening debt before everything tightens up. Use systems and automation to your advantage, and check on your subscriptions. “Your time is part of the cost.”
Have an abundance mindset. The ancient Metacake proverb “Mindset Matters” could not be more true when dealing with or preparing for inflation. Once you have a “lack mentality”, it’s hard to break out of it, and often can lead to a downward spiral. (the last thing you need when dealing with money issues). Try to find the silver lining, and stay hopeful and thankful. “don't get into a lack mentality that says, there's only so many pieces of the pie, and if I don't get mine, then I'm not gonna have it.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:35] Ken opens this week’s episode with a chat about the upcoming holiday season and what gets the guys in the Christmas spirit.

[4:09] Bob begins the conversation about this episode’s topic, inflation. “I think it's a good time of year to start talking about 2022 and inflation in your business and your agency etc. And how do you prepare yourself for inflation?”

[4:39] Ken discusses a few shocking third party stats concerning Black Friday and Cyber Monday sales.

[6:36] Bob talks about the impact that Facebook and OS changes have had on the decrease in impulse purchases.

[9:19] Brad asks, “how do we hedge against inflation and how do we do things to prepare now, before you get to the point where we're all feeling it.”

[10:31] Brad talks about how he’s looking at the cash he has since cash is what’s being deflated.

[12:22] Ken mentions some real-life examples that portray the crazy increase of inflation over the last 3 years. “I have a Christmas tree that I bought from Costco in 2018. Yeah. It's $200 More at Costco today.”

[14:54] Ken talks about why he believes it’s important to be shooting for over 30% profit. “If you're not ahead of it, it will creep up on you, you'll look back on it.”

[17:49] Bob discusses how, “Salaries don't always keep up with inflation in every industry. And they should, to a certain degree.”

[18:35] Bob talks about some practical things business owners can do to prepare, including the importance of paying close attention to your productivity.

[19:23] Ken adds that it’s vital to ensure that all costs are efficient.

[22:36] Bob notes that focusing on cash flow can also help prepare your business for inflation.

[23:00] Ken talks about how it is crucial to decrease costs and increase income. He also says that “cash is not king, but cash flow is king.”

[28:51] Bob adds that automation wherever possible can help reduce costs.

[30:13] Brad talks about the importance of being proactive when it comes to inflation. “You're not reactive, but you're proactive.”

[31:53] Bob says that debt is often the downfall of businesses, so if you have debt, it’s important to address that.

[33:07] Ken mentions that taking on risk by investing in a “safe investment” will make more money than just holding onto the cash.

[34:42] Brad advises the listeners to talk to your financial advisor to come up with a plan that will work best for your business.

[36:36] Bob talks about evaluating and adjusting your rates. “It's probably easier to do it incrementally, a little bit at a time, like once a year for the next three or four years.”

[38:17] Ken reveals some of his hacks for renewals.

[40:36] Bob says that an abundance mindset is a game changer. “don't get into a lack mentality that says, there's only so many pieces of the pie, and if I don't get mine, then I'm not gonna have it.”

[42:08] Ken talks about the silver lining in inflation. “the silver lining in this is like, there is 30% more cash out there.it's being spent and wants to be spent and all that kind of stuff. The one upside of it is there's not less cash, there's more.”

[44:11] Brad concludes this episode by saying, “help your clients when they struggle through things like this. That builds a long lasting relationship.”

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Summary:

On today’s episode we talk about the metaverse and predict what we think it is, what it does, and how business will change because of it. We discuss the differences between VR headsets versus Apple glasses as well as some of the ethics behind integration of technology into the human body. Technology has grown tremendously in the past 20 years, and if it continues along its growth pattern, the Metaverse is not far away. We believe that failure is a key part of success, but it’s hard to fail when all the answers are at your fingertips. This is why we believe it’s important to reject the silver platter of technology to find your own answers to solve problems. The metaverse is exciting yet unknown, so prepare your business the best you can, and be intentional with and aware of technology and its dangers.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

The Metaverse is a game-changer, not a game. Although the Metaverse is often depicted as this magical, incredible universe where anything is possible, research shows that the technology we currently have can harm humans. Because of this, we as business owners must lead by using technology for marketing and other things in an ethical way. “It’s not gonna be a game like Ready Player One. The real Metaverse is going to be something where you live your daily life, and there's more technology that gives you insight and connection somehow.”
Be intentional with how and when you use technology. One way to think of technology is like a chainsaw. It really helps when you’re trying to cut down trees, making your job much easier. However when you try to use it on other projects, like building a wall, it can become a danger, especially if you don’t know how to use it properly. Technology can be a useful tool but it is vital to keep the dangers of it in mind. “At what point does technology make us less human?”
Reject the silver platter. With the tap of a few buttons, technology gives us solutions to almost any conceivable problem. Working hard to accomplish something, learning, solving problems, and failing are key parts to growing your business and becoming a more developed human being. You must reject the silver platter that is technology to continue to grow. “We're getting everything handed to us on a silver platter. The truth is we have to, in some places, willfully reject the silver platter and do it ourselves.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:48] Brad opens this episode by asking the guys about their holiday plans.

[4:15] Bob begins a discussion about this week’s topic, the Metaverse, and how it, “really is internet 3.0.”

[4:46] Brad talks about how the metaverse could promote isolation and selfishness.

[5:15] Bob makes a prediction about what he believes the metaverse will look like. “It's more augmented reality mixed with reality. That's the future. But maybe we'll get to a time where there’s a true Metaverse of alternate reality.

[6:12] Bob discusses VR headsets and why he does not think they’re the future.

[6:56] Brad talks about an alternative to VR, the Apple glasses.

[10:36] Ken contemplates the fascinating and complex ethics behind technology integration into the human body.

[12:17] Brad talks about how technology has grown over the past 20 years, and considers the damage technology can do. “Honestly, are we damaging a lot more of ourselves right now?”

[14:11] Bob asks, “How are we as business people gonna push toward more ethical use of it?”

[24:51] Ken talks about his predictions for the metaverse.

[26:15] Brad discusses more possibilities for the Metaverse. “It’s not gonna be a game like Ready Player One. The real Metaverse is going to be something where you live your daily life, and there's more technology that gives you insight and connection somehow.”

[27:49] Bob connects the idea of the Metaverse to history and writing books. “This idea of outsourcing your brain. This argument has been going on for hundreds and hundreds of years.”

[28:36] Ken talks about the importance of rejecting the silver platter to continue to learn and grow from doing hard things.

[34:18] Bob asks, “at what point does technology make us less human?”

[36:17] Brad talks about how self discipline with technology starts with families.

[38:21] Bob discusses how, “Portugal passed a law. It is illegal for an employer to contact, email, and call an employee after work hours.” This prioritizes people over technology and business.

[42:31] Ken talks about the importance of being intentional with your boundaries and using systems to avoid emergencies.

[46:44] Ken considers the moral challenges of marketing on online platforms. “The reason it's harder now, is we have not only our own experience, we have hard data that says that these things hurt people.”

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Summary:

On today’s episode we talk about RFPs and why we think they can and should be eliminated from your business strategy. RFPs can be genuine, but most of the time they’re cost comparing races, rigged making it impossible for you to win. When your agency is pursuing an RFP, consider the value of your team’s time, your resources, and potential clients the RFP could cost you. These are some of the reasons why we believe it’s best to seek an alternate route. When the inevitable RFP pops up, one of the best ways to ensure high quality without losing time and resources is to create processes that are repeatable for future employees. When RFPs are individualized and frequently change, it increases the challenge of scaling your agency. Remember the Ancient Agency Exposed Proverb, “businesses run on processes, and people run the processes.”

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

RFPs aren’t required. Although RFPs can be helpful, they can often drain your agency’s time, resources, and cost you other clients. Because of the high risk factor, it’s vital to determine whether this company is using you for a quote or whether they genuinely want to work with you. One way to do this is to eliminate RFPs from your agency. “If you're really good at something, your time is gonna be really valuable...RFPs are a high risk waste of time.”
Use clients’ RFPs to your advantage. RFPs can be useful when used in the right way. After informing your client that you don't do RFPs, consider offering an alternative service where they pay a small fee for the completion of a task. This can add value to your client’s business and increase your chances of gaining their business while also helping you filter out those just looking for references. “This is a little hack, at least for us, where this actually provides value to the client, but we say hey, your RFP doesn't look like it's the mark, would you like us to rewrite it?”
Create processes that are scalable and delegatable when writing RFPs. When you do need to write an RFP, set up processes that others can use in the future. When RFPs are too diverse and individualized, it can make your business less scalable and efficient. “Businesses run on processes and people run the processes.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:32] Bob opens this week’s episode.

[1:44] Ken explains what freestyle Friday is.

[5:01] Brad mentions that he and his agency are working on a RFP this week, sparking the topic for this week’s episode. “I don't have a secret sauce for RFPs.”

[9:00] Bob talks about how his agency does RFPs. “There has been a dedicated business development person that's been here for six, seven years. All she does is business development… She knows that we need to have four different ways of bios, we need to have three different ways of saying, here's our skill sets, here's case studies of, here's five different industries that we know we can pull from,”

[12:52] Ken contemplates, “When we spend a maximum number of hours on an RFP, what's our win percentage? And when we spend zero minutes on an RFP, what's our win percentage?”

[14:07] Bob discusses one of the primary challenges behind writing RPFs. “the problem that we deal with is like there's no uniform standard or process... you can't build something that there's no uniform process for.”

[15:41] Ken talks about his agency’s approach to RPFs, and how it helps them filter through potential clients.

[17:17] Ken divulges one of his hacks for winning clients through their RFPs. “This is a little hack, at least for us, where this actually provides value to the client, but we say hey, your RFP doesn't look like it's the mark, would you like us to rewrite it?”

[19:38] Ken discusses how he thinks, “it's borderline unethical on the client side to ask for that. Where you're like, I know that I'm gonna waste your time, but I'm still going to take it.”

21:14 I wanted to let you know that at this time stamp, Brad says “badass” in case you want to bleep it out. :)

[22:36] Bob talks about his agency’s approach to RFPs, and compares Ken's to his own.

[23:59] Ken says that a small investment can help you determine if the client is serious about working with you or not.

[26:17] Ken talks about how “if you're really good at something, your time is gonna be really valuable...RFPs are a high risk waste of time.”

[27:51] Bob discusses the psychological aspect of differentiating your agency from all the others in RFPs.

[29:22] Bob mentions a few positive aspects of taking the time to complete an RFP.

[32:54] Brad asks about software that can help your team assemble quotes and proposals.

[34:07] Ken says that, “the more customized or different your products are, the less scalable you are and the less delegatable you are too.”

[35:10] Brad talks about the business adage, “businesses run on processes and people run the processes.”

[36:58] Bob says that you should always break the seal to win for you.

[37:56] Ken talks about how to use your differences to your advantage by clearly communicating to the client the reasons behind your differences and how they can benefit them. “There's a reason behind it and it’s not selfishness. You can unpack those and communicate them in the right places.”

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Summary:

On today’s episode, we talk about blockchain technology and how it could impact marketing. First of all, what is blockchain? It’s a buzzword, not many understand. Blockchain is a decentralized technology that uses an online financial ledger, validated by the community. It is connected to past transactions using a hash to eliminate any fraud, interceptions, or manipulation. These “blocks” of financial information are all connected to form a blockchain. Translation: it’s VERY honest. As an agency, it’s vital that you conduct your own research about cryptocurrency and blockchain to improve your understanding of these revolutionary concepts. Ads on TV these days are extremely annoying, and they shouldn’t have to be. It’s important to be aware that through blockchain, which ads you see, and any incentives, could drastically change. Although technology is helpful, it is simply a tool, and should not define any moral standards. Ensure that you and your agency have a healthy balance of technology in your culture by allowing time without technology, and remembering your double-bottom-line.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Be intentional about learning about blockchain. Do not write off the potential blockchain has to be as successful as the internet. Don’t be the person who said “the internet will never change advertising”. Invest into understanding blockchain and how it works because someday soon, it may be a big part of the agency world. “embrace it. learn about it. Don't say ‘I don't get that’. It's possibly as revolutionary or more revolutionary than the internet”
Ads need to become effective, not annoying. We can all agree that the worst part about live TV is the ads. Although many companies use TV advertisements with limited results, with blockchain, these types of ads could be more effective and appealing by using incentives, or allowing marketers to know your preferred ads. “People really hate ads. But it clearly pays for everything. There's got to be a better way.”
Blockchain will impact the world much more than it already has; be ready. Blockchain could revolutionize numerous industries, including your agency’s. Do not allow technology to set the standard for or be the enforcer of honesty. You can prepare for the changes ahead by building a healthy balance of technology in your agency’s culture and becoming more adaptable. “Anything unbalanced is bad.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:38] Bob opens this episode by chatting about his new MacBook Pro, Apple, M chips, and Intel.

[4:56] Brad talks about a positive experience with Facebook that he had recently.

[7:42] Brad talks about BAT (basic attention token) and introduces today’s topic, blockchain

[10:13] Ken talks about how, “people really hate ads. But it clearly pays for everything. There's got to be a better way.”

[17:30] Bob brainstorms a few ideas about how to make watching ads more effective and less annoying.

[17:35] Brad discusses how although a consumer could offer information to marketing companies, these companies often discover things people don’t know about themselves through cookies and targeted marketing. “there's things that I don't even know, in my subconscious that probably Facebook actually knows about me. I'm not going to be able to give that to Facebook, because I don't know that about myself.”

[18:29] Ken talks about how blockchain can make information gathering be more transparent.

[19:33] Bob breaks down what blockchain is. “In a nutshell, what you have is a decentralized system or method of transferring data back and forth that is secure and cannot be intercepted and manipulated.”

[20:16] Ken adds that, “blockchain is the technology that coins like Bitcoin and those kinds of things run on. It's decentralized, but it's also a ledger.”

[24:07] Bob talks about how blockchain could eliminate the central control centers in countries around the world.

[26:07] Ken discusses the importance of being intentional about learning as much as possible about blockchain. He also talks about the potential areas blockchain could be applied to in the future. “embrace it. learn about it. Don't say ‘I don't get that’. It's possibly as revolutionary or more revolutionary than the internet”

[29:41] Bob relates blockchain to virtual reality in Ready Player One.

[32:03] Brad connects blockchain back to potential marketing strategies and ideas.

[32:22] Ken adds on, saying, “you could basically pay people for what their time is worth and how much influence they have… maybe each person has their endorsements.”

[34:04] Ken discusses the importance of unplugging to find freedom in life and to live in the moment.

[35:19] Ken contemplates the moral issue that arises when humanity relies on technology as the only way to achieve honesty in a business and even personal settings.

[37:12] Brad talks about how profit has driven, “our digital world to run on greed and power.”

[41:43] Ken discusses the importance of balance in technology and in blockchain. “Anything unbalanced is bad.”

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Summary:

On today’s episode, we chat with Marcus Meazzo about branding, and how to make a genuine brand that people will relate to. Marcus talks about what he believes is vital to build a brand that will last, and says that although people typically think of branding as a logo or slogan, this is only a small part of what great branding really is! He breaks down the process of building a brand into 4 main steps. The first is to find your identity. Figure out what your values and beliefs as a company are, what makes you stand out, and define your second bottom-line. Next you need to build tone and voice “pillars” to help you illustrate and explain your brand to the public and your customers. You must also create a consistent culture within your business to support your brand from the inside out. Finding and identifying your true target audience will also go a long way to increase the impact of your brand and product. Once you’ve built your brand, use it to make a special bond with your customers that will be unique to your agency and set you apart from the thousands of emails consumers receive daily. Having a relatable and authentic brand that reflects your identity can help your advertisements be more original, drawing attention and potential clients to your agency.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Identify your identity. In order to build a brand, you need to first figure out who you are, what your values and beliefs are, and what makes you unique. From there, you can build your tone and voice pillars to help you articulate your brand to the public, create a unique culture, and find your target audience. “if it's something that's not really you, if it's not your values, if it's not the thing that really truly makes you unique, then it's not sustainable.”
Use your brand to make a connection between you and your target audience. Once your brand has been created and consistently and accurately portrays your company’s identity, then you can use it to connect with your target audience in a genuine and meaningful way. “Don't build campaigns, build conversations… people don't respond to ads, they respond to what they're interested in.”
Keep it simple. Although your identity and brand are complex, your advertising should reflect these ideas in a simple, easy to understand way. This simplicity can reduce the likelihood of people ignoring your advertising, and sets it apart. Keep it simple and make sure it reflects your company’s identity and brand. “if you are too complicated, people do not stop to look”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About our Guest:

Marcus Meazzo: Principal owner of Meazzo Design Co. From aspiring start-ups to fortune 100 companies, Meazzo Design Co. blends strategy, design, and user experience to help business owners with their ah-ha’s and turn them into influential brands.

Learn more about Meazzo Design at meazzo.com
Marcus on Facebook
Marcus on LinkedIn

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[1:27] Brad introduces this week’s guest, Marcus Meazzo. “He has built brands for companies you might have heard of like PayPal, Dave Ramsey, Dr. Axe, hundreds of other awesome brands. So Marcus, welcome to Agency Exposed.”

[3:47] Marcus chats about his eye-opening recent travels around the country in an RV before settling down in Wisconsin. “We were traveling around the country for about a year after we sold our house in Colombia”

[5:54] Brad asks Marcus about his philosophy on good brands. “Talk a little bit about your philosophy and your background and things that you think a good brand has and what companies need to think about when they think about their brand.”

[7:00] Marcus talks about the importance of knowing who you are and what your values and attributes are as a company. He also uses an analogy of how a house is decorated to illustrate important aspects of branding. “how are we going to help you get known? And what are you known for?” “What are your values? What are the things that you care about?” “if it's something that's not really you, if it's not your values, if it's not the thing that's really truly makes you unique, then it's not sustainable.”

[9:39] Ken talks about how often you can tell which brands are genuine and which are facades.

[12:53] Marcus says that “a brand can't be all things to all people, and they can't be who they're not”

[16:19] Bob asks Marcus about how he communicates his brand to his customers and how that compares to how he communicated it a few years ago.

[16:56] Marcus says that simplicity is key. “if you are too complicated, people do not stop to look”

[18:00] Bob asks, “Do you have a process, Marcus, that you walk your clients through?”

[18:49] Marcus talks about 4 key things to consider when building your brand.

“values and beliefs would be first and then we would create pillars from that. We would understand the culture we want to be in so we really need to understand who we're talking to… Who are the people that are our ideal target audience… What are the attributes and benefits that would be a perfect fit between you and your customer?”

[23:07] Brad asks about the best way to create brand consistency within your business.

[24:16] Marcus says that the best way to create consistency is by, “making sure that what you're creating, they are actually bought into it.”

[26:26] Ken uses Dave Ramsey’s business as an example of how consistency strengthens your brand. “If you're not polarizing, you may not have a strong brand.”

[26:51] Marcus talks about how Ramsey has regular meetings about the values of his business and how “he wants his people to practice what they preach.”

[31:58] Brad discusses how “creating a brand off of a celebrity that everyone seems to already know and saying, if our brand was this, this is kind of the personality of the person helps other people identify”

[36:37] Bob relates branding to marketing. “don't build campaigns build conversations… people don't respond to ads, they respond to what they're interested in.”

[37:43] Ken asks how to brand your own business?

[40:11] Marcus talks about the challenges of trying to “write your own resume” and how it is often easier to bring in someone from the outside. “Everybody needs someone, someone on the outside to come in and help get that stuff out of them.”

[44:01] Marcus mentions a few of the questions that he asks his clients to get them thinking about what they want their brand to be about.

[47:03] Ken concludes this week’s episode by saying that, “I don't want to be known for a service, I want to be known for the result I created in the world.”

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Summary:

On today’s episode, we talk about the ethics of marketing, and the struggle of balancing unhealthy manipulation and effective marketing. The truth is, with so much noise, many use lies to cut through. This creates a downward spiral where people no longer believe marketing messages. One way to defend against this is by defining who you are as an agency and what matters to you. When your true values and goals are displayed in your marketing, you can create moving advertisements as well as genuine customer-brand relationships. It’s also important to have an aligned double bottom line in your agency. What we mean by this is to create two end goals or purposes for your business. The first can be monetary related, but the second should be related to a greater purpose. Once you can align these goals, they can work together to make your marketing honest and effective.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Be honest in the little things. Ancient Agency Exposed Proverb: “In a world where all marketers lie, no one will buy.” Instead of using your customers’ pain points or vulnerabilities against them, look for problems you can actually solve for them! Although a business’ primary goal is to make money, this goal should never be attained by lying to get someone to buy. “there's a point in time where you're looking for more vulnerabilities in a person and not really solving the problem.”
Have an aligned double bottom line. By having two bottom lines in your agency, you’re more likely to become less focused on monetary gains, reducing any manipulative marketing that is occurring. These double bottom lines will also help you to build genuine relationships with your customers, rather than a typical one sided business relationship. “the double bottom line always has to align. if they don't, it's not a business.”
Portray your true self in your marketing. As an agency, you must establish who you are and your beliefs and priorities. Once you’ve defined who you are, it will be easy to portray your true self in your marketing. This kind of culture and attitude will serve as a balance, catching any potential manipulative marketing, and helping you eliminate it from your strategy. “This idea of being less of our shadow and more of who we truly are in advertising and marketing is something that we need to talk more about and understand what that means.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently, that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:42] Bob opens today’s episode with a chat about the local coffee shop and the origins of the names of types of coffee.

[2:17] Brad begins today’s discussion about manipulative marketing. He talks about how brand to client relationships often aren’t genuine and instead are pretty creepy. “Can a brand be its true self and can a product stand on its own without having to feel like we constantly have to do things that will sell the product or say things that will manipulate people to get them to buy our product?”

[4:39] Bob starts a discussion about the ethics of marketing when he asks, “what are the ethics or what should the ethics be behind advertising?”

[5:32] Bob continues the conversation about ethics and considers the fact that the sales funnel in and of itself may not be an ethical way to treat human beings.

[6:07] Ken talks about the pressure to use manipulative tactics in marketing and advertising today.

[11:08] Brad contemplates the tipping point of solving problems for your customers and looking for their vulnerabilities that you can market to, without actually solving a problem. “there's a point in time where you're looking for more vulnerabilities in a person and not really solving the problem.”

[12:36] Bob gives examples of how ads have changed over time and how they can manipulate the customer in new ways. He also talks about the two main philosophies of business. “A capitalistic society business's main goal is to satisfy the shareholders and make money. That's your only goal, that's one philosophy. The other philosophy is no, I want to leave the world a better place. I have purpose in my life as a human being and while I want to be successful and make money, I also have another bottom line and that is to _____.”

[17:55] Brad discusses the awkwardness around brand-customer relationships, as well as some of the factors that contribute to it.

[19:36] Bob asks, “At what point does it become manipulative?”

[22:13] Ken talks about how manipulation can be used to motivate people and help them take action. “not all manipulation is bad. It can be used very badly. But if it's with the intent of ultimately helping the customer…”

[25:59] Brad compares pain points and vulnerabilities and contemplates the ethics of seeking out consumers’ pain points.

[28:10] Bob talks about the importance of knowing who you are as a brand and being able to portray your true self in marketing. “This idea of being less of our shadow and more of who we truly are in advertising and marketing is something that we need to talk more about and understand what that means.”

[33:24] Ken highlights the importance of having an aligned double bottom line. “the double bottom line always has to align. if they don't, it's not a business.”

[34:53] Bob talks about how vital an agency’s culture is and considers the question, how do we perfect selling our product? “until you create, and fight for and do the hard work of building that type of culture inside an organization, it's not going to change for your agency”

[37:02] Ken discusses the importance of quality leadership when ethically marketing. “let's not destroy someone's inbox for no reason.”

[40:50] Bob talks about the tragic reality that manipulative marketing actually harms people.

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Summary:

On today’s episode we break down the pros and cons of investing in technology and other tools. It’s important to understand exactly what you’re investing in and what it will do to help accelerate your business. Technology is a vast, evolving field so it’s also important to ensure that your information and assets are thoroughly protected. One of the ways you can achieve this is through redundancy. Protect the information that makes your business unique by keeping an updated, spare copy. While technology and tools can really benefit your agency, allowing your business to rely on a single platform, or tool, is deadly. Also, forgetting that you have 27 different tools for 2 jobs is definitely very costly. Being aware, thoughtful, creating redundancy, and assessing your tools will help your agency be ahead of the curve.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Know exactly what you’re investing in, and why. Technologies are the tools of the trade in the agency world. But if you’re not careful, you’ll quickly become bloated. “The point is to invest into it and to be aware of it.”
Create redundancy. In the agency world, we are always creating various kinds of information. This information is what allows our businesses to exist and succeed. It’s our IP and it’s critical to clients. Your information is most likely your entire business. In order to protect your information, redundancy is a must. Protect your ideas and information by storing them in more than one place. “You're making information, so you gotta protect that.”
Evaluate your tools to become self-sufficient. Services, subscription, platforms, and other tools can be incredibly helpful, but if you're not careful they’ll run away with your profit. Have you ever had 12 different TV subscriptions so that you can watch every single NFL game, yet never ue them? This can happen with your agency’s tools, and with these applications, the bills really stack up. This is why it’s important to regularly assess your tools and determine how your agency would be affected if they suddenly were gone. “What type of technology are we relying on that if it went away would hamper our business?”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently, that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:44] Brad opens today’s episode by talking about Bob's radio voice and the new Apple iPhone 13.

[1:59] Brad asks the guys, “When is the right time to make some upgrades or to give your employees some new gadgets? When is the right time to invest in technology?”

[4:27] Brad talks about what technology he provides for new, full time employees, and how he wants their first day at Anthem Republic to feel like Christmas.

[7:50] Ken discusses his strategy for preventing a buildup of unused computers.

[8:23] Ken says that investing into your employees by providing them with technology that will help them be more productive or produce better results will pay for itself. He also asks, “From a security side of things, how do you control all these laptops and what's on them, to the level that you need to for your business?”

[11:11] Bob asks about other kinds of tech and talks about evaluating their usage and value on a yearly basis.

[11:31] Brad talks about automation and his timeline for upgrading technology.

[12:23] Ken contemplates the psychological aspect of opening a new computer box from Apple.

[13:36] Bob discusses the importance of redundancy. He also continues the conversation about evaluating the tools your company relies on and how a shutdown could negatively affect your business. “What type of technology are we relying on that if it went away would hamper our business?... How do we keep on top of that, and always have redundancy in a backup?”

[15:13] Ken recommends that every laptop should have a ‘backup cloud’ backup solution that is different from Dropbox to protect the information that your business runs on.

[17:45] Ken talks about physical hard drives and other methods of protection for your information. “You're making information, so you gotta protect that.”

[18:04] Brad discusses his perspective on hard drives and redundancy.

[21:30] Bob talks about the questions he asks his employees to, “Keep us thinking about how to be redundant and self-sufficient, but it also keeps us ahead of the curve.”

[27:11] Ken talks about the importance of awareness when your agency has many third party tools, and how those subscriptions can really add up.

[29:11] Bob discusses a cost reducing method where your clients pay a fee of some sort that helps cover the cost of the third party tools you use. “If you do have an expense like that where you have a subscription figure out ways to charge the clients and encourage them pay for that subscription.”

[32:10] Brad considers how to make sure that your data on the cloud is protected in the future.

[33:08] Ken talks about how, “There is always a backdoor for the government to be able to get access to any data for any company.”

[38:05] Ken concisely summarizes his perspective on investing in technology when he says, “I think the point is to invest into it and to be aware of it.”

[42:05] Bob talks about how to be a leader for your agency when investing in technology.

[46:02] Bob mentions a book called “This is How They Tell Me the World Will End” that is about cybersecurity and vulnerability.

[49:41] Ken says that it is crucial to have a strategic mindset and stack the odds in your favor.

[50:36] Bob concludes this episode by briefly talking about ensuring that your agency has cybersecurity from all angles.

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Summary:

In today's episode we talk about a variety of topics, but focus on three main ideas. The first is to never place your business solely on a platform that you don’t control. It leaves you subject to the whims of the company that owns the platform. This is a hard lesson to learn, but luckily there are some tricks. Because of the recent improvements made to preserve privacy, targeted marketing has recently been severely restricted by Facebook. Second, is to find some alternative Facebook targeting. We also talk about how the marketing circle is rotating back to TV and magazine ads also because of privacy concerns. Maybe you should be transitioning your strategy.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Never rely on a platform you do not control for your core business. We’ve talked about this in another episode, and today we discover the painful consequences when you entrust your ads to a platform that has a personal agenda. At the flick of a switch, your ads can be immediately shut down. “You can't rely on Facebook anymore.”
Be prepared. Privacy changes are pushing the marketing cycle around. Due to the recent privacy changes from Apple, Google, and Facebook, traditional marketing is becoming more of an opportunity. “I think things are coming back around, full cycle… and I think there’s going to be an opportunity there soon.”
Optimize your site and use Facebook targeting hacks to gain leads. Though Facebook may be continuing to trim back their targeting options, there are some 3rd party tools that can help gain more targeting, without invading anyone’s privacy. “Google's been rewarding. A lot of really good mobile schema.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently, that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:49] Brad open’s this week’s episode by talking about Detroit’s annual electronic music festival and Houdini.

[5:13] Brad talks about his recent, frustrating experience with Facebook. “You can't rely on Facebook anymore.”

[10:56] Bob gives some secret Facebook marketing hacks.

[14:54] Bob offers some suggestions to help with getting leads in the midst of Facebook’s limited targeting options.

[16:09] Bob talks about how optimizing your site can help Google “like it”, which will also help with clients, rankings, and traffic. He also asks, “Have you guys ever used any content discovery ads, like Taboola or Outbrain?”

[16:52] Ken answers Bob’s question and offers some alternative, more effective solutions than content discovery ads. “I would suggest… serve ads for content, on Facebook. If you've got great content, do “dollar a day” Facebook ads. That has proven to be much more effective than those content ads.”

[19:51] Ken talks about how he thinks the marketing circle is coming back around to tv and magazine ads because of privacy.

[20:53] Ken asks about trade shows, opening a discussion about that industry and its evolution over the past 2 years.

[24:13] Bob discusses his zoom fatigue article and ties it into the discussion about trade shows.

[29:35] Bob begins a discussion about Facebook’s smart glasses, along with their competitors and the smart glasses market.

[33:15] Brad considers an alternate universe where Elon Musk has created smart glasses and how there is a potential for smart glasses to help disabled people.

View Details

Summary:

In today's episode, we break down some of the ways that we maintain predictable revenue. Retainers can be used by any agency to keep their income consistent. But they bring other potential issues. It’s also important to invest in a great team that consistently does great work. This is a simple yet effective way to increase returning clients and has the potential to increase your revenue. “Your journey towards predictable revenue is never over.” -Ancient Agency Exposed Proverb

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Use retainers. Retainers are the traditional way to create predictable revenue streams. But not all retainers are good. And not all revenue should be retainer based. Be sure to understand the pros and cons of retainers and the appropriate mix of retainer and project income. “if we didn't have 50% of our billings being retainers, it would be a lot more difficult to manage our cash and understand what's coming in.”
Don’t accept seasonality; do something about it. Although most businesses have some form of seasonality, don’t allow your agency to be dictated by the seasonality of one client type or industry. You must diversify. Diversify across industries with opposite seasonality. Diversify across industries that serve opposite ends of the spectrum. Like an investment portfolio, you want business that will thrive no matter what time of year and no matter what the economic environment. “there's always something to do. The challenge is, is does that something create revenue right now or in the future?”
Invest in an excellent team that does excellent work. When you shop at a retail store and have a great customer service experience and a high quality product, you are much more likely to return to that retail store. This concept is the same with agencies. Investing in an excellent team that does excellent work is a simple yet effective way to increase returning customers and potentially, income. “the way that you engage customers and clients has a lot to do with the stability of your income.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently, that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[1:26] Brad open’s today’s episode by discussing this week’s topic. He asks, “How do you stabilize your revenues so that there's some consistency, over a longer period of time?”

[2:18] Ken asks about the seasonality of Brad and Bob’s agencies.

[3:09] Brad talks about how although some months are lower than others, it has become more predictable.

[3:51] Ken says that as an agency, “you should never accept seasonality.”

[4:43] Bob mentions the role outgo plays when an agency is stabilizing their income. He also says that “the way that you engage customers and clients has a lot to do with the stability of your income.”

[9:52] Brad talks about the challenges of not having retainers.

[11:15] Ken mentions the importance of having foresight when trying to stabilize your income.

[11:53] Ken talks about how oftentimes with seasonality, it can be feast or famine.

[13:31] Ken discusses how, “it's a challenge to not get into a scarcity mindset.”

[14:40] Bob talks about how investing in excellent people and doing excellent work can help stabilize your income.

[17:42] Bob begins a discussion that unpacks the various meanings of retainers

[20:04] Ken talks about how his agency uses different retainers and some potential incentives to help convince clients that a retainer is in their best interest.

[22:34] Bob mentions his agency’s use of retainers and some of the methods they use.

[24:26] Brad discusses the way his agency uses retainers and points out that even retainers are flexible and can change. “if we didn't have 50% of our billings being retainers, it would be a lot more difficult to manage our cash and understand what's coming in.”

[27:16] Bob asks, “What are other ways that you can stabilize your income?”

[33:17] Brad talks about how, “as agencies, we don't plan out our customer business correctly.”

[34:09] Bob tells a story about how he used a client’s desire to move funding from his agency to work with another agency as an opportunity to suggest other ways his agency could help them. “there's always an opportunity, there's always something you can do for that customer”

[36:42] Brad talks about how seasonality can make you feel like, “we're either hustling or double hustling.”

[37:34] Ken discusses how even during a lower season, agencies should always have something to do that either brings in other sources of income or invests back into the agency. “there's always something to do. The challenge is, is does that something create revenue right now or in the future?”

[38:45] Ken wraps up by talking about the scarcity mindset and the challenges of trying to get out of it. “the leader needs to have a mindset of balance and stability.”

View Details

Summary:

In today's episode, we dive into the evolving world of ecommerce. Every agency should be executing their services on their own business to gain valuable experience and learn how to truly innovate. There’s no way to truly innovate if all you do is work on other people’s projects. We talk about channel diversification and marketing diversification. Although Facebook ads and Amazon can be helpful tools, you don’t want a primary source of your revenue dependent on 3rd parties. Ecommerce is more complicated than most people think and we jump into the advanced side of the pool today.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Innovate on yourself. Let’s be honest, you can’t innovate without being able to fail and failure isn’t exactly what you’re hired for. So, if all you do is work on other businesses projects, you don’t have the ability to truly innovate. You need playgrounds of your own. “ “By definition, agencies aren’t the most innovative people, because, by definition, they're hired to not fail, and innovation takes being able to fail”
Platform diversification. Imagine that you’re solely using Facebook ads to market your product and suddenly, they get shut down. You would lose a primary source of revenue at the whims of others in power. This is why it is crucial that you’re in control of your ecommerce platform. “Never ever, ever build your strategy on a platform that you do not own and control.”
Think competitively. A business is solely used as a tool to make money, so it’s acceptable and even encouraged to be competitive. Make a list of all of the apps, websites, and tools your business uses on a daily basis and then figure out how to be less dependent on them. By being independent, unique, and competitive, you can give your business an edge that will set you apart. “Start thinking competitively versus being dependent.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently, that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:58] Bob opens today’s episode with a quick chat about last week’s episode.

[2:28] Bob begins today’s conversation about ecommerce.

[3:15] Ken talks about Black Friday and some of his expectations for it and the future of ecommerce.

[4:47] Ken discusses his philosophy that, “Every agency should be doing ecommerce themselves”

[5:02] Ken mentions how important it is to effectively plan for the holiday season, especially when it comes to ecommerce.

[6:19] Bob says that it is crucial for agencies to develop their own products so that they can experiment with ecommerce and gain some valuable experience.

[6:43] Ken talks about how, “Innovation takes failing”

[10:14] Brad discusses how addictive ecommerce can be.“It's so addictive, when it's working”

[12:52] Ken talks about the amount of risk he believes an agency should take regarding ecommerce and marketing. “If you're running Facebook ads, you have no control over the revenue, or if someone buys. All you have control over is can I get someone to click on this thing… You're walking into a potential minefield, and that’s bad.”

[16:27] Ken discusses the true complexity of ecommerce and some of the factors that influence it. “It is a lot more complicated than people think… There's a perception that ecommerce is just like a magic slot machine.”

[22:04] Ken talks about the three stages of ecommerce he typically sees.

[24:46] Ken breaks down the issue of measuring a business by their lifetime value.

[25:41] Brad asks, “What percentage is ecommerce driving revenues for most customers?”

[27:15] Ken discusses how, “The platform that you can control the most or the channel you can control the most needs to be the biggest channel. And that's ecommerce.”

[28:33] Bob asks how the Amazon effect impacts those in ecommerce.

[34:06] Ken talks about how having a unique brand is vital when trying to transition from selling on Amazon to selling on your ecommerce site. “Brand specifically plays a role in increasing the value.”

[35:43] Bob says that an agency should, “Never ever, ever build your e commerce strategy on a platform that you do not own and control.”

[44:59] Brad asks what platforms Ken would suggest for agencies who are getting started on their own ecom.

[50:50] Bob uses two analogies to drive home the importance of having your ecom primarily on a site or platform that you control and that competition is not a personal thing but rather a part of business.

[54:51] Bob summarizes his two takeaways from this week’s episode. “Start thinking competitively versus being dependent.”... “Have a short term vision and goal for ecommerce, have a midterm and then have a long term vision goal.”

[1:01:12] Brad talks about his agency, Anthem Republic. “You can find us at anthemrepublic.com and you can see the type of work we do there, the clients that we work for, some case studies, and a lot of fun videos on how we think.”

[1:01:35] Ken talks about his hybrid agency, Metacake. “Our hybrid agency is metacake.com. We have a store at store.metacake.com where you can see some of our t-shirts and apparel and those kinds of things. We also have a YouTube channel.”

[1:02:14] Bob wraps up today’s episode by talking about his agency, Five by Five. “I'm at 5by5agency.com and we do lots of different things. But we primarily focus on research, strategy, ecommerce, marketing, and creative.”

View Details

Summary:

On today’s episode, we talk about where we think an agency’s profit should go to bring the greatest return and maximize your resources. It’s how you bring stability and value to your business. Disclaimer: this is not financial advice. Consult with your financial professional doing anything. We are not financial professionals, and we do recommend finding a real advisor who is invested in you and has your best interests in mind. Your investments are for the long game. We as humans are often so focused on the short term that we forget what this is all for.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Become an investor (not just an owner). Investing is key when you’re maximizing your resources. The goal is to make the most of your return, no matter how small, on your investment. Investing doesn’t have to be complicated, but can be used as a tool to break even with inflation.“What is the simplest way, lowest risk that you can just do better than what you're doing right now. It's better than sitting in the bank.”
Consider leverage. Although you may not immediately be comfortable with the idea of credit, it can be a powerful tool (if you have powerful discipline). “If you're going to get a line of credit you need to know, under what circumstances you would use it. You have to have a predetermined plan.”
Be a good steward of your finances by doing something with them. In order to maximize your resources, you actually have to do something with them. Because of the high inflation rate, the value of your money will depreciate if you leave it sitting in the bank. Take action! “we're not financial advisors, but you got to do something with it.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently, that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:32] Ken opens today’s episode and mentions that unfortunately, Bob is not on this week’s episode.

[2:03] Brad begins today’s conversation about the financial side of running an agency and discusses what he and Ken do to invest into their companies. “You're losing money, if you're just holding it. What do you do with it to maximize your return?”

[3:51] Brad points out that “we're not financial advisors, but you got to do something with it.”

[6:11] Brad talks about how he tries to maximize his resources and make as many returns on his money as possible. “the only way I can duplicate myself is to make my money work for me.”

[7:49] Ken discusses the balance of maximizing your resources but also taking the time to enjoy them. “I want to maximize it. But I'm rarely enjoying it.”

[11:43] Brad begins a discussion about the things that he and Ken do to help keep their businesses running through a downturn.

[16:17] Ken asks if there are some guidelines Brad has for taking out a line of credit.

[17:30] Ken talks about some strategies that he uses to help him make decisions with the business’ credit line. “If you're going to get a line of credit you need to know, under what circumstances you would use it. You have to have a predetermined plan.”

[21:31] Ken discusses his philosophy about the importance of profit and investing that profit to improve your business. “if you don't shoot for that you can't invest into the business to be better at what you do”

[23:14] Brad asks, “If you do have profit, what do you do with it?”

[24:41] Brad talks about his experience with deflationary assets. “you just know that it's just going to go up in value.”

[25:54] Ken discusses the boundaries he has for investing.

[33:45] Brad talks about the importance of diversification when investing.

[35:15] Ken boils investing down to “what is the simplest way, lowest risk that you can just do better than what you're doing right now. It's better than sitting in the bank.”

[36:53] Ken talks about how cash depreciates in value thus, “That cash is the same as owning a car.”

[40:04] Brad discusses his opinions on investing and what he thinks are the best ways to go about it. “be ready to buy so you have capital to buy, because when there's blood in the streets, and everybody's yelling, the world's gonna collapse. That's when you buy.”

[42:38] Brad talks about why it’s important to try to take your emotions out of investing. “you really just got to look at pure data sometimes when you invest”

[44:15] Ken uses an analogy to demonstrate a unique way of looking at the stock market and why he thinks the best time to buy is during hard times.“Let's say Apple has a sale. We're like sweet, let's go buy a new iPhone. But when the stock market has a sale we're like, oh, no, no, no, we don't want to touch that.”

[47:26] Brad points out that “you have to be a good steward of your own finances and your own business to be able to make other companies’ money.”

[49:40] Ken talks about how having a financial advisor can help when making financial or investing decisions for your agency.

View Details

Summary:

Today we discuss how to break into new verticals. We also discuss whether you should break into new verticals. It can be challenging to close in on a client in a different industry when you have minimal experience there. On this week’s episode, we offer a few tips to help you jumpstart your journey through new verticals. It’s all about becoming a master translator. Even if you don’t have extensive experience or training in a certain industry, if you can sell your exclusive talent and how you applied it to a similar situation, you can make it in almost any industry.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Be honest. We all know the saying, “Honesty is the best policy”. This especially applies when you’re trying to break into a new vertical. By being open about the extent of your experience in the client’s specific industry, you build trust and create an opportunity to share your unique skills. “Always be honest”.
Become a master translator. Each industry has its own special language. Being able to translate their needs and understand their goals, you can attach the relevant experience you have to practical application in their situation. “start speaking their language… and then attach it to your past experience.”
Find what makes you uniquely suited to that vertical. Even if you don’t have loads of experience in a specific industry, you can exhibit other talents or skills you have and how you applied them to similar situations. Working in an agency exposes you to opportunities to understand various industries and marketing tactics. This gives you an edge over other companies that work solely for one industry. “What I really try to convince the client is that you're getting access to a huge knowledge warehouse.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently, that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:33] Bob opens today’s episode with a quick chat about the toasty weather in Tennessee.

[1:29] Brad begins today’s discussion about how to break into new verticals. “How do you get potential clients to trust that you understand their industry? And you understand their issues, and you've solved issues in the past similar to theirs?”

[3:30] Brad talks about the importance of understanding the core parts of the industry you’re pioneering.

[4:50] Bob discusses two key components to help convince a client that you’re the right fit for their industry. “always be honest” “start speaking their language… and then attach it to your past experience.”

[7:29] Ken talks about how to sell your unique skills and experience to a potential client in another vertical.

[11:42] Bob mentions how invaluable having a talented salesperson can be. He also discusses presentation and isolating what is important to your client.

[16:54] Bob talks about a unique method he uses to persuade a client and eliminate the competition. “What I really try to convince the client is that you're getting access to a huge knowledge warehouse. What you get with us is you get this huge knowledge warehouse of experience that we've worked with all these other industries, that we're going to be able to apply that knowledge and that learning to your situation”

[18:21] Ken discusses the role that personality plays when talking to a client in another vertical.

[21:13] Bob talks about the vital role communication and experience play when it comes to expanding into new verticals.

[23:58] Ken asks, “why would someone want to go into another industry or in another vertical?”

[26:10] Brad discusses his motivations for entering a new industry. “you mentioned money, obviously, that's a motivator. But for me, a lot of the motivation is learning something new, to be honest with you.”

[31:09] Ken talks about the key to starting conversations that will help you break into a new vertical.

[37:29] Bob discusses another option for breaking into a new vertical. “don't be afraid to hire somebody that's an expert in that niche.”

View Details

Summary:

Today we talk about the challenges of working with difficult clients or just simply not getting the feedback you expected from the people you serve. Unfortunately, as service providers we can’t control the happiness of the people we serve. We can only control our own actions - the work we do and the way we respond. Our first tip is to try to be empathetic. It seems a bit cheesy and retaliation is definitely easier, but remember that you only know a small part of their story and that inner struggles from other parts of life often reflect into everything else. Another key character trait is confidence. Remember how your English teacher in high school would underline your mistakes in red and would not circle the good parts in green? At times, feedback from clients can be similar. Don’t get discouraged and as you grow, your confidence will too. Finally, remember to prioritize your mental, emotional, physical, and spiritual health. Because we work in the service business, the last person we think to serve is ourselves. This is toxic and can only lead to personal damage and damage to your agency.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Empathy is the best superpower. No one likes dealing with rude people, but having a bit of empathy can make these challenging situations easier by giving you awareness into the possibility that their reaction may not be related to you at all. “If you feel like, I really need to set this person straight, you act in the opposite spirit”
Be confident in your work. Validation is at the core behind the dependence on a certain response, and it’s important to be able to self-validate based on your own bar for excellence. “As confidence in your ability grows, you are less swayed by what people say. It's like, I know I did a great job.”
Boundaries and prioritizing your health are key. Often your clients, your team, and others’ health are placed above your own. In order to provide the highest quality service to others around you, your mental, emotional, physical, and spiritual health can not be placed at the bottom of the totem pole. The way you show up, greatly influences your ability to stay centered no matter what is thrown at you. “Put your own oxygen mask on first.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently, that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:05] Ken opens this week’s episode with a brief chat about the guys’ summer vacations.

[3:59] Ken begins today’s discussion about how to deal with clients who seem ungrateful or rude. “In the service industry sometimes you do a good job and someone's having a bad day or there's just a bad personality or whatever and that person's a jerk on the other side. And you can feel like garbage”

[5:42] Brad talks about the desire for positive feedback; especially for those with a pleaser personality in the service industry. “When you're in the service industry, you want positive feedback on a positive feedback loop. When you don't get that from a client, it's really difficult. It can make you feel depressed, it can make you feel like you're not doing a great job.”

[8:25] Ken asks “How do you move to where you're happy with the job that you did no matter what?”

[10:26] Bob discusses the importance of prioritizing your mental, physical, emotional, and spiritual health. “Put your own oxygen mask on first.”

[16:35] Ken talks about the challenge of being intentional when prioritizing your personal health. “Be really intentional about those things.”

[19:18] Bob talks about the importance and power empathy has. “Empathy is a superpower.”

[20:25] Bob makes the point that no one “Gets up and says, I'm going to be a jerk and mean to everybody today”

[24:05] Ken talks about the balance that is required when leading your team through a challenging client situation.

[26:09] Brad discusses two of the practical ways he and his team deal with these situations.

[28:27] Bob acknowledges that inner struggles often reflect into business and other aspects of life. “Yes, I will take ownership and responsibility if I've dropped the ball. But the way that person responds, engages, or the tone he sets is not about anything else than what's going on inside.”

[30:31] Brad talks about how cultural and communication differences can suggest dissatisfaction when that’s not the case.

[33:38] Brad tells a story about one of his experiences and how confidence in your work, no matter the client’s reaction, is important.

[38:21] Ken challenges listeners to act in the opposite spirit. “If you feel like, I really need to set this person straight, you act in the opposite spirit”

[39:10] Bob talks about how human connection is vital to promote empathy and communication. “Try to get in front of the person as much as possible, like get them in a room, talk it out.”

[46:33] Ken points out the importance of giving positive and negative feedback together to create a balance. “People can't go through life without any positive input.”

View Details

Summary:

Today we discuss the positive aspects of running an agency. When you work in an agency, you're essentially paid to play (if you do it right). You’re exploring unknown aspects of online marketing, branding, design, etc and that’s exciting! You have the opportunity to work with multiple clients per day which provides variety. Agencies have the ability to look at hundreds of marketing strategies and figure out which ones worked and which ones didn’t, apply their knowledge to their own business and others, AND get paid to do it! This is more valuable than any college program. Running an agency is hard work, but there are incredible rewards for those that try.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

You’re paid to play (if you do it right). Overseeing an agency is hard work, but exploring new ideas and applications in online marketing, branding, or design is exciting! “I can't imagine doing anything else where I would get to get up every day and really create something out of nothing”
You gain experience and knowledge on business that no other industry or program can give. In an agency, you have the opportunity to look at hundreds of companies and learn about their successful marketing strategies. This is a practical education opportunity, where you get paid to learn the equivalent of an MBA. “In an agency type environment, you actually get to get paid to learn”
There’s variety and freedom. Although there are challenges to managing this, working with numerous, different clients on a daily basis provides variety and freedom. “Being able to work with various different businesses in a single day is variety.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently, that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:32] Bob opens this week’s episode by informing his listeners that unfortunately, Brad will not be featured on this episode.

[1:05] Bob begins a discussion about the positive aspects of running an agency and asks “What's the first thing that gets you up in the morning when you think about your work?”

[2:04] Ken talks about how exciting running an agency is and how “you get to do all these cool, different projects all the time. For someone like me, I enjoy trying to do something that can't be done.”

[3:28] Bob analyzes the technology aspect of running an agency and how agencies are creative, different, and fun. “I can't imagine doing anything else where I would get to get up every day and really create something out of nothing”

[4:35] Ken talks about how stress doesn’t necessarily come from the job itself but rather, “what stresses us out is the constraints of reality”.

[7:32] Ken discusses agencies’ unrealistic expectation for perfection. “confidence is one thing but perfectionism is another thing.”

[10:15] Ken talks about the variety and freedom that comes with running an agency. “being able to work with various different businesses in a single day is variety.”

[13:52] Ken points out an educational benefit to running an agency. “you're getting paid to peek behind the curtain of hundreds of businesses and business models that have marketing problems and then work on that.” “in an agency type environment, you actually get to get paid to learn”

[17:23] Ken talks about using the unique, raw materials in your area to boost your agency and add an exclusive aspect. One of these materials may be talented people. “not only do we get the opportunity to have fun and be creative in our jobs, but we get the opportunity to be creative in the people that we hire, and allow them to enjoy the same life”

[28:07] Bob says that although running an agency is enjoyable and has many benefits, “It's not for everybody. There's always a cost to everything. And to me, it's worth it. But to live in that environment where you do get that freedom, we do get that creativity where you do get that fun atmosphere. It's a gamble,”

[29:03] Bob wraps up this week’s episode with some advice for those trying to decide if they want to start an agency. “Don't be afraid to fail. Don't be afraid to try different things and just go for it.”

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Summary:

Today we analyze Patrick Lencioni’s “The Five Dysfunctions of a Team '' and discuss how to apply these principles in everyday agency life. We use a pyramid to model these 5 concepts because each level builds on the next. The foundation of the pyramid is trust. Everyone knows the saying “There is no relationship without trust”, and this also applies to business. The next level is healthy conflict. Healthy conflict is important because it allows your employees to freely share their differing opinions which can promote fresh ideas and more unity. The third segment is commitment. Without commitment to the company, an employee views their job as simply a paycheck. This can stunt initiative and growth. The fourth layer is accountability. Accountability is key to help your team get on the same page. Last but not least, the top of the pyramid is attention to results. In order to promote attention to results, all four components, as well as some inspiration and a team mindset, must be part of your agency. These 5 principles are essential to create a more cohesive team.

Top 5 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Trust is the foundation to building a cohesive team. Everyone knows the saying “There is no relationship without trust”, and this also applies to your team. In order to have a relationship with your employees, trust is required.
Healthy conflict is an essential part of the culture of your agency. Healthy conflict can help you promote unity and fresh ideas in your team. Without it, dissent and division will occur. “it's about the freedom for your employees to feel like they can bring up something without feeling like they're inferior”
Commitment is necessary to keep on the employees you hire. If your employees don’t feel valued and safe, they will see their job as only a paycheck. “they don't feel personally connected in any way. In other words, I don't trust people that are here, I don't feel safe enough to really say when i disagree with situations”
Accountability is important because it promotes productivity and unity. Being on the same page about the agency’s goals and day to day tasks is important and accountability is one way to achieve that unity. “It has been a game changer. One of the benefits is it creates a starting line.”
Attention to results requires inspiration and a team mindset. By applying the previous 4 fundamentals, and some motivation, your employees will become more aware of your agency’s results. “foster an environment where people will care about the results.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently, that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:51] Bob opens today’s episode by talking about the book, The Five Dysfunctions of a Team.

[1:29] Bob breaks down The Five Dysfunctions of a Team and uses a pyramid to analyze the five main principles. “At the very bottom, the foundation is trust. The next one up is conflict, then commitment, accountability, and results.”“So the Five Dysfunctions of an organization of a business of a team, would be an absence of trust, fear of conflict, lack of commitment, avoidance of accountability, and inattention to results.”

[3:50] Ken asks how to create trust inside of your team.

[4:00] Brad says that vulnerability is important to promote trust.

[4:30] Bob talks about the importance of honesty and humility when trying to build trust.

“If people see me mess up or, or just kind of cut a corner, but I never fess up to it. They're not gonna trust me with that.”

[5:56] Brad says that “another way to build trust is to have some wins with your team so that they can trust your your leadership”

[7:50] Bob talks about the next dysfunction, which is the fear of conflict.

[8:43] Brad mentions the role personality plays in the fear of conflict. “I hate conflict, and I think Ken loves it.”

[10:13] Brad says that the conflict level on the pyramid isn’t about angry conflict or competition. Rather, “it's about the freedom for your employees to feel like they can bring up something without feeling like they're inferior”

[11:07] Bob talks about promoting an environment where people feel safe and the best ideas win out.

[12:54] Bob applies the fear of conflict in business to the relational side of life as an analogy to show the importance of healthy conflict. “Say with your partner or significant other, you don't trust each other enough to argue, to fight, and to have passionate disagreements in your relationship. I would argue you have a very dysfunctional unhealthy relationship.”

[13:34] Ken discusses the importance of knowing the personalities of the people on your team.

[17:30] Bob moves on to the next level of the pyramid, commitment. Lack of commitment is when, “they don't feel personally connected in any way. In other words, I don't trust people that are here, I don't feel safe enough to really say when i disagree with situations”

[19:50] Bob continues up the pyramid to the next stage, which is accountability.

[20:29] Brad talks about the required balance and challenges when having accountability in an agency.

[21:27] Ken discusses his experience with accountability in his business and offers a few tips.

“one of the things that we've done that helps accountability is this daily stand up that we do in the morning. And it's where everyone comes, having thought through what their day is going to look like and what they're going to accomplish.”“it has been it is a game changer. One of the benefits is it creates a starting line.”

[25:27] Bob talks about the final dysfunction of a team, inattention to results. “If a team has lost sight of the need for achievement, the business ultimately suffer.”

[27:11] Bob illustrates that when a business puts the other 4 foundational principles into practice to improve their team, it can “foster an environment where people will care about the results.”

[35:20] Bob wraps up today’s episode by talking about the benefits of having a cohesive team.

View Details

Summary:

Today we discuss the lonely aspect of being a business owner or leader and some ways to prevent it. It’s a real problem. One way to fight it is to get into a group and have mentors. Whether it’s a mastermind group, or the Agency Exposed community, escaping isolation is key. We also discuss the challenges of firing in a small business, the balance in discussing business matters with employees, and how the ideal business owner model has changed over time. Although being an agency owner can be lonely and comes with many heavy responsibilities, it’s worth it all in the end.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Loneliness is real. Running an agency is challenging, and it is common for owners to become isolated. Being a lonely leader is unhealthy for you and your business. As a leader, you must proactively search for methods to prevent loneliness. “When you're the business owner, or even if you have partners, I'm sure you still feel at times, very alone.”
Don’t isolate yourself. By isolating yourself, you can jeopardize your mental health, emotional health, and your agency’s health. Isolation is common when you don’t feel you can share EVERYTHING with ANYONE. Find a group or community, get mentorship and coaching so you can share the in’s and out’s of your business with. “You can find answers to problems just by talking it through without the other person actually giving any input.”
Encourage the leaders above you. Everyone needs a bit of encouragement, especially leaders. Often, 80% of what they hear is criticism without any kind of encouragement. “I want to be the voice, that's not the criticism voice and hopefully the little drop of water in the desert.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently, that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:42] Bob opens this week’s episode with a chat about the locations of agencies that listen to this podcast.

[3:39] Bob begins a conversation about the pros, cons, and struggles of being an agency owner.

[5:12] Brad talks about how lonely being a business owner can be. “When you're the business owner, or even if you have partners, I'm sure you still feel at times, very alone.”

[7:26] Ken discusses the heavy responsibilities many business owners have and feel the impact from. “You do have a certain responsibility but the buck doesn't stop with you.”

“Everyone brings you problems and there's no one that you can bring your problems to.”

[8:32] Brad talks about the emotional challenges of hiring and firing within a small business.

[10:04] Bob discusses the difficult balance between being empathetic and doing what’s best for business.

[12:10] Brad compares how a large corporation fires and talks about what he tries to do differently.

[13:32] Ken points out that firing is “not about you. It's about protecting the thing you've been put in charge of, but doing it in a kind way.”

[15:24] Brad talks about the balance there is when discussing business matters with employees.

[17:17] Brad says that because no one understands his business on the level that he does, he feels, “like nobody gets me.”

[19:38] Brad chats about how every so often, he’ll get a call from a client. Typically it’s about something they needed done that hasn’t been done yet. Brad breaks down how he deals with those kinds of responsibilities as a leader. “I always go for the win win”

[23:33] Ken mentions some of the factors that contribute to the loneliness of being a business owner. “There are times when you have to swallow things that don't feel good, and I think that contributes to that feeling.”

[24:14] Bob advises all leaders, “Don't isolate yourself.”

[27:05] Ken talks about how he reminds himself to have sympathy and empathy for others and how everyone makes unintentional mistakes. “I believe that everyone I meet, are trying their best, but they seem like they've gotten to the end of their rope”

[28:38] Brad talks about how the ideal business owner model has evolved. “I feel more like a motor, and I'm just one part of it, versus being lonely at the top.”

[30:27] Bob gives a brief summary of the book, The Five Dysfunctions of Team.

[31:19] Ken wraps up this week’s episode with some tips for leaders who are dealing with loneliness. “I want to be the voice, that's not the criticism voice and hopefully the little drop of water in the desert.”

View Details

Summary:

Last week we covered how to scale your business without hiring. Today, we chat about how to make sure your agency is primed for scaling. The first step is to define what you want your agency to look like. Next, you need to put guidelines in place to protect your goals for your business. It’s also important to know what tasks give you energy, drain you of energy, and the ones in the middle. By being self aware and finding people who love the tasks you don’t, you can improve efficiency and limit fatigue. One final step to prep your agency for scaling is to have a bigger purpose than simply making money. By doing this, you can inspire your employees and create a genuine culture that they love.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Put boundaries in place to protect your goals. Figure out what you want your agency to be and the goals you have. Then place guidelines to help you achieve the desires you have for your agency. “It starts from understanding what you want to be as an agency.”
Have a bigger purpose. By giving your agency a bigger purpose than just a 9-to-5 job, you can inspire your employees and eliminate any staleness within your business. “You gotta have a bigger purpose for your agency outside of just making money. And if you can get your employees to really understand the value of that, then they're more apt to really enjoy what they're doing”
Know your strengths, weaknesses, and everything in between. Discover your strengths and weaknesses in order to structure your business around them. Then find people who gain energy doing your not so favorite tasks. By doing this, you can streamline and strengthen your agency and prevent burnout and exhaustion. “If you have enough self awareness to identify and take the time to plug in the people around you that are better at that, it's a game changer.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently, that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:57] Bob opens this week’s episode by chatting about the triangle offense of the Bulls.

[3:14] Bob continues last week’s conversation about scalability.

[3:57] Brad asks how to efficiently manage transitioning from one project to another.

[4:31] Ken talks about how he uses scheduling to promote focus and smooth transitions between projects.

[5:16] Brad asks how many people an agency should have to have more layers of project management.

[5:34] Bob says that having someone who focuses on time management is essential to scale.

[8:10] Brad talks about how in order to manage your agency’s size, “it starts from understanding what you want to be as an agency.”

[9:26] Ken asks what guidelines the guys use to practically manage their size goals.

[9:56] Brad discusses the importance of understanding your pipeline and your relationships with your clients.

[13:36] Bob says that it is vital to “have someone that is invested in the business on some level that has a really good gut about people.”

[17:46] Brad asks, “How do you scale, like we talked about and not see your revenues or your profit continue to go down?”

[20:47] Ken uses an analogy of Apple to illustrate that catering to the clients preferences- billing, for example- creates inefficiencies, unscalability, and low product quality. “Why die over something so trivial, that can be solved so easily.”

[23:44] Bob dives into the dark side of success. “There's a dark side of success that no one really wants to acknowledge.” “there's collateral damage. You don't want multiple marriages, your kids that they don't have relationships but you have to sacrifice something, and people will always be the collateral damage.”

[23:52] Bob discusses the importance of defining what you want for your agency by creating healthy boundaries that achieve your goals.

[24:59] Brad considers the motivations behind scaling.“why do businesses have to scale and grow and continue to grow every year after year after year? Like, it's almost like a shame thing.”

[25:41] Brad talks about the importance of having outside goals for your business. “You gotta have a bigger purpose for your agency outside of just making money. And if you can get your employees to really understand the value of that, then they're more apt to really enjoy what they're doing”

[28:01] Bob discusses how essential culture is to scalability.

[28:46] Brad talks about a friend of his who runs a mid size agency. He started an orphanage for 20-30 kids and his agency is actively involved in it. Brad says that at the “end of the day, I would rather scale that kind of mentality and culture than just scaling a business just to grow a business.”

[30:08] Brad asks, “is money really what I want?”

[31:02] Ken touches on other motivations behind scaling. “It's less about the size, or the numbers. It is to be able to have, more predictable, more sustainable, more consistent business success,”

[32:01] Ken talks about the importance of having a healthy business.

[35:00] Brad asks if the guys have a team member that manages and runs processes. He also asks for suggestions to help him find a person to do that in his business.

[35:59] Bob discusses how essential it is to understand your strengths, weaknesses, and things in between. He also talks about having people in your weak spots to strengthen your agency and prevent burnout and exhaustion.

[38:04] Ken has a conversation about his experience, methods, and tools he uses to systemize his agency. “you have systems, you just may not be aware of them. I think the first step is identifying them” “How I figure out how to systemize it is by trying to identify things that could be done smarter, and then saying, Okay, if I had to teach this to someone, how would I do that?”

[45:17] Bob talks about personal discipline.

[46:42] Brad discusses how people, especially new hires, want more processes as confirmation that they are doing their job correctly.

[47:45] Ken wraps up with a chat about teamwork and picking your poison. “Would I want to do this? No. Do I want to live in a house? Yes.”

View Details

Summary:

In this week’s episode, we dive into how to scale your agency without hiring. Although hiring team members is required, it’s not the most effective and healthy way to scale. To increase capacity and profit, you must innovate. Old, out-dated techniques are one part of the problem. A technique that can help you scale your agency in a profitable way is to create a culture that promotes efficiency in your current employees. Using tools and processes to track your agency’s profitability is also key. Two other elements that can assist you with scale are effective time management and traffic management. In order to serve your clients to the best of your ability, your agency must be healthy in all areas, especially as you scale.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Hiring isn’t always the best way to solve the problem. Although hiring can address your capacity challenges, it has the potential to damage your agency’s profit in the future. You must only hire on top of an already optimized system. “The answer to just hire more is acceptable; it just doesn't produce the best profit.”
Create a culture that promotes efficiency and time management. By creating a culture where your employees are thinking about eliminating inefficiencies in your agency, you are streamlining your business. A culture of optimization vs clinging to “the way it’s always been done”. “Your employees need to be thinking ‘how can I make this easier’. It's a cultural thing.”
Use tools and resources to track capacity and profitability. Hiring someone dedicated to monitoring your employees’ and departments’ capacities will help you scale your agency. It’s also important to track your business’ true profit because as your agency grows, your profit can slip away and you won’t know where it went. “I would recommend everyone tracks everything they do”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently, that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:44] Ken opens this week’s episode by asking Brad about his biking adventures this week.

[2:44] Ken begins a discussion about scale in agencies and asks, “Do you feel like you have a healthy capacity for the work that you do?”

[4:41] Brad talks about the idea that, “your business is run by processes and people run the processes.”

[5:12] Brad connects efficiency and streamlining your business to a cultural aspect of your agency.

[7:11] Brad discusses how humanity wants to be seen as valuable and how that can be especially negative in the agency world.

[8:51] Bob analyzes the difference between the nomadic society and today’s industrial society and contemplates what life could be like if we “could break out of that and go back to a simpler life and say, What is it that makes me the most productive, the most creative, the most I can serve my family, while at the same time being incredibly productive at the same time?”

[11:24] Ken talks about how “there are situations we saw last year where we're stuck in a model that doesn't necessarily produce the best result.”

[13:03] Bob discusses some important elements when scaling your agency. “At the end of the day, I think it's all about time management,” “having a Traffic Manager is really important, because then it releases the burden off the workers,”

[14:35] Ken asks if there are any tools that the guys use to help manage and measure capacity.

[15:51] Ken asks, “Does your sales team ask if we've got capacity for something?”

[16:31] Ken talks about how hiring isn’t the only solution to the scaling problem.

[19:00] Ken asks, “if you're hitting capacity, how do you expand what you can do with the same amount of people without sacrificing quality?”

[21:03] Bob explains how he ranks his tasks according to their value and adjusts or changes the low value tasks that don’t push conversions.

[23:02] Ken talks about two components that can create inefficiency in your agency and how to correct them.

[26:22] Bob questions the belief that agencies have become more efficient and asks “have we really made ourselves better and more efficient? Or are we a slave to the process?”

[27:58] Brad offers a few tips about building efficiency into the mindset of your employees and the culture of your agency.

[32:05] Ken talks about the importance of regularly checking in on the agencies’ real profit.

“One of the takeaways here is someone in the business, is looking at all the time, because it gets away from you so fast, especially the bigger you get”

[33:14] Ken uses a travel analogy to point out that in order to serve your clients to the best of your ability, your agency must be healthy.

[35:37] Bob discusses the importance of time management, universal time tracking across your agency, and someone who monitors the profitability of each project.

[36:41] Ken summarizes the discussion about capacity tools. “you can't manage what you can't measure.”

[37:55] Ken uses an analogy of the recipe for Coke to point out the importance of the successful formulas within your agency. “the value of your business is the formula of how you deliver the product you deliver.” “it wouldn't be coke. it'd be Pepsi.”

[39:16] Ken concludes this episode by discussing the important balance of structure and efficiency.

View Details

Summary:

In this week’s episode, we explore the scientific world of AI and specifically AI copywriting. We discuss the pros and cons of AI in marketing and life. Throughout this episode, we dissect the importance of the human element, truth in marketing, the future, and false narratives. We also breakdown the difference between machine learning and AI. Although AI can eliminate tedious tasks and create opportunities for more creativity, there has to be a balance because, without failure, we will never improve or grow. It’s important to understand how to apply AI to certain areas of your agency to improve your marketing or make it more efficient while maintaining a genuine customer experience.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

There are many pros and cons with AI. AI can be an awesome tool for marketing and improving efficiency, but it also makes mistakes, lacks depth, and can even put people out of jobs. Your perspective and priorities are what will help you determine whether you need AI in your agency or not. “it depends on what you measure, in your mind as the most important”
AI makes mistakes. Nobody, even AI, is perfect. It’s limited in its understanding of human emotions and nuances. Because of this, it’s important to use AI in marketing as an assistant in a way that reduces the potential for error. “AI gets a lot of things wrong, that humans wouldn't get wrong”
AI can never replace the human element. Although AI can bring massive efficiency to the way businesses market their products, it will never be able to add the human element. This is why it’s important to maintain an imaginative, genuine side to your agency. “What AI can't do is the human element, which is storytelling, nuance, and creativity.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently, that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[1:32] Bob opens today’s episode with a chat about Brad’s arm injury after riding his mountain bike as well as other bone breaking incidents.

[4:38] Brad begins today’s conversation about AI and how it can enhance marketing strategies.

[6:23] Ken mentions that while AI can be a tool for marketing, it also has the ability to do things it should not be doing.

[6:42] Brad asks if there is a difference between machine learning and AI.

[7:19] Bob explains his interpretation of the difference between programming and artificial intelligence. “Programming a computer to do certain tasks is machine learning. Intelligence is you take those things and ideas and reasoning and put them together and output something that appears to be something that only a human can do.”

[8:21] Ken gives his analysis on AI and machine learning. “Almost all AI right now, will use machine learning to get smarter. Machine learning is just taking inputs and adjusting the way you do things based on the results, good or bad, and then improving.”

[8:47] Brad points out that because of how advanced AI has become, many people believe that AI will be the demise of the human race.

[9:22] Ken mentions how AI can make mistakes and how this poses a danger to society.

[10:11] Brad draws a comparison between how advanced AI is today and the movie Minority Report.

[10:20] Bob reminds the listeners that “AI can only do what it's programmed to do.”

[10:29] Ken points out that while AI can use past data to try to project into the future, only humans have an imagination and can create the future out of nothing.

[12:20] Bob talks about how people can understand emotions and nuance while AI can mistake these for things they are not. “Machines only understand ones and zeros, blacks and whites, and yes and nos.”

[12:44] Brad mentions that while there can be numerous negative effects to AI, it also has a positive impact on marketing.

[14:09] Brad asks, “what have you guys been using that you would consider AI that you felt are valuable in your work?”

[14:21] Bob contemplates how often we take AI for granted and the role it plays in everyday life.

[16:37] Brad talks about how people always talk about AI from an antagonistic point of view and the fear of AI.

[18:45] Bob considers how the narrative about AI may have become twisted and uses sharks as an example. “How many other things in my life do I just assume that that's the narrative? And that's the way it is when actually, well, maybe sharks don't hate humans, and don’t want to bite their arms off every single time. Maybe they're actually kind creatures that we can pat and get to know if we would take the time to do that. I think it’s the same thing with AI.”

[19:42] Bob points out that by using AI in a positive way, we can become kinder and more creative.

[20:04] Brad talks about how Apple is leading the way with privacy and how focused they are on it. He also questions their reasoning and motivation behind this dedication to privacy.

[22:00] Ken talks about how businesses are made to make money and the difference between a nonprofit business and a for profit business.

[24:04] Ken talks about how AI is a double edged sword and it takes wisdom and discernment to prevent harm. “The more power the more responsibility”

[27:40] Brad chats about how AI and automation can take away jobs and how scary that is.

[28:12] Brad considers the future of AI and asks, “Is there a point where your brand will be disingenuous and we know that it's all being generated by AI and it's all fake?”

[29:14] Bob talks about how AI can never replace the human element. “What AI can't do is the human element, which is storytelling, nuance, and creativity.”

[31:37] Ken contemplates the idea that AI could take over all marketing.

[33:56] Ken talks about the challenge to find the truth and determine what is real in AI marketing.“Will the internet become just an AI? A machine? And you don't know what's real and what's not.”

[36:37] Brad talks about how our laziness and the convenience of AI doing research for us allows the AI to create the truth. “When I think about people, I think that they're mostly just sheep half the time.” “They don't want a challenge. They just want to take content and repurpose it as truth.

[37:39] Bob mentions an email he received about an AI marketing tool.

“They have some kind of facial recognition that will tell you people's response during that video and what ads are creating an emotional response and which ones are not.”

[39:44] Bob summarizes his opinion on AI and machine learning.

[41:20] Brad talks about the importance of human interaction and failure. “If we don't fail in life, we’ll never grow.”

[44:13] Ken talks about the pros and cons of AI and how, “it depends on what you measure, in your mind as the most important”

[44:43] Ken asks, “if you run an agency, how do you use AI?”

[46:59] Ken gives his take on practical application of AI. “as much as you can leverage effectively, you should, without degrading the quality of your work.”

[51:54] Brad talks about humanity’s potential and how we are not just data to be analyzed.

[53:43] Brad discusses the search for identity and how AI could potentially manipulate that.

[56:44] Brad mentions his experience with AI and its impact on the healthcare/telehealth industry.

[1:00:06] Brad has one last tip for the listeners. “Even if you're not using a lot of AI in your practice or work, understand AI because every business is going to rely on it. And the more you understand your clients business, the better marketer you're going to be.”

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Summary:

Today we’re continuing our series on agency fundamentals. Even if your agency is mature, this discussion is for you. One of the issues is the need to take time off without harming your business. The agency shouldn’t rely on any one person to survive. Three main ways to keep your agency running smoothly when you aren’t there are: a partner who can pick up the slack, systems and processes, and hiring a reliable team. Collaborating with other agencies is also an option that promotes more unity and gives your team the opportunity to benefit from outside specialists. By having these components in place, when something does happen, you can take an extended leave knowing that your agency will prosper during your absence. We talk about all of this and more on this week’s Agency Exposed episode.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Taking time to recharge is essential. Burnout is a thing. Leading and managing an agency requires you to come filled with passion and ready every day. Over time without getting recharged you will lose the energy and focus required to build a successful business. If you are going to take time away from the business then you need to get your business to a place where it can run smoothly without you around.
“You should always strive in your business, to make sure that you could take four months off and your business would still survive and grow.”
Hire people you can depend on.
You need a team that you can trust and rely on. It’s really important to hire well. Hire employees that have a strong character, who believe in the business, and what they’re doing.
”What I don't want is someone who just wants a job.”
Have processes and systems in place. You need to put in place a strong set of processes and systems to help your team do repeatable work more efficiently and consistently. It is important to also balance that while still providing the personal touch your clients need. “Part of building businesses is building systems that are repeatable”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently, that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:47] Brad kicks off this week’s episode with a chat about the trending Tesla S Plaid and Apple Keynote.

[3:08] Brad begins a conversation about challenges in small businesses such as how to prepare for an extended leave of absence and making sure that your business doesn’t decline. In order to take months off at a time, you need to have people you can rely on to pick up the slack and keep everything running smoothly. “You should always strive in your business, to make sure that you could take four months off and your business would still strive and grow. But to do that, you've got to have the right people in place that can have your back”

[5:27] Bob says that having a reliable, empathetic partner can enable you to leave with confidence.

[6:01] Ken points out that you need to make sure that you’re not abusing the relationship between you and your partner or doing anything to breed resentment.

[7:31] Bob asks about those who don’t have a business partner.

[8:54] Brad gives some insight into not having a partner. He explains that, “every day, I want to fire myself meaning that every day, I want to get to that point where I can leave for four months, and my business continues. Just as planned.”

[10:10] Brad asks about what roles are vital to solo-prenuers.

[10:35 Ken talks about the importance of processing and systems and how they can assist employees when leaders are unavailable.

[11:57] Ken mentions how the sustainability of your employees or your team in general is a factor. You don't want to burn people out. Breaks are a necessity. “Once you build that into your culture, then it's not it's not Big deal when someone has to take a long term period off”

[15:07] Bob asks, “What if you’re a small team?”

[15:15] Ken gives some tips on what to do if your team is small. He says, “What are the responsibilities that without you would not happen? And then how do you start to like, punch those out?...some of those things are process-related.” “in my experience, a lot of the things that keep people from being able to unplug or keep things from being able to systemized are just a lack of clarity”

[17:29] Ken says that systemizing as much as possible while still delivering an honest customer experience is key.

[18:37] Bob asks, “what are the roles that you fill that no one else can do?”

[19:48] Ken says that by breaking your roles down into things that are repeatable, you can create a process someone else can follow. “Part of building businesses is building systems that are repeatable”

[21:27] Bob says that the primary solution is just hiring really good people.

[21:47] Bob looks for skills and a passion for the business when hiring.

[22:19] Brad advises those hiring to “always hire someone more qualified than you.”

[23:20] Brad looks for someone who has the same vision and who communicates well when hiring.

[24:36] Ken wants to hire employees with strong character who believe in the business and what they’re doing. “what I don't want is someone who just wants a job.”

[26:56] Ken talks about how it is the leadership’s job to create a compelling environment that makes people want to work there.

[27:48] Bob points out the importance of transparency with your team and how that can lead to a bigger, clearer vision. “I think the more that you can have a culture of openness, it also fosters a culture of ownership”

[29:37] Ken talks about the importance of communicating with your employees and listening.

[32:05] Brad asks when is the right time for a sole owner to consider having a partner.

[33:54] Brad says that seasons of depression or boredom are common

[34:58] Ken talks about the importance of complementary skills and the difference between being good at something and getting energy from something.

“bringing somebody in that has complementary skills and you don't want to learn those skills, or maybe they're just depleting your energy, maybe that's the time to think about a partner or merging.”

[37:56] Brad talks about his experience collaborating with other agencies. “that's one of the things that we talked about early on in this podcast is that agencies tried to be so quiet and private, and they're almost so competitive against each other.

What if we lived in a world where every agency competitor was our best friends, and we could collaborate?”

[38:28] Ken adds his thoughts on collaboration and how building relationships is beneficial.

[42:12] Bob points out that often, “we think it's the clients that are going to miss us. But actually, it's your team that's going to miss you.”

[43:15] Ken states that it all becomes worth it once “you can actually step back when you need to and recharge and not worry about everything burning.”

View Details

Summary:

Today we’re discussing how to start an agency and the 3 key components to be successful. These fundamentals are relevant to even verteran agencies. But first, what is an agency? Many businesses in this space are stereotyped as agencies but in reality, these “agencies” are not agencies at all but rather, teams of specialists. The three essential components to building a healthy and successful “agency” are to become specialists in your field, hire passionate and experienced people to manage your clients, and finally, you need a proactive organizational staff. We will talk about all of this and expose more agency secrets in this week’s episode.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Develop clarity on your business model - “Maybe you are an agency, but maybe you're not.” “I think that most people aren't running an agency that say they're running an agency”. If you don’t do this you risk being perceived as a generalist or a commodity which is a dangerous business path.
Translate your philosophy into a benefit for the client. Don’t shy away from doing something differently than others. If it’s better, it’s called innovation and while it may be disruptive, it’s necessary. “If you're doing something better for your business, would it not be something valuable to your client? Even if it's just a simple: Hey, we're doing this because it makes us healthier, and if we're healthier, then we're a better partner for you.”
Understand the agency non-negotiables
- Having a skilled business leader with experience that your client will respect is a necessity. Everyone must be a value add. “I personally think that strong experience and leadership as far as just the main contact with their direct client is key.”
- “You have to be really good at something.”
- Typically you are the specialist so “one of the first hires should be organizational staff, communications, or project management.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad Ayres: Founder of Anthem Republic, an award-winning ad agency. Brad’s knowledge has led some of the biggest brands in the world. Originally from Detroit, Brad is an OG in the ad agency world and has the wisdom and scars to prove it. Currently, that knowledge is being applied to his boutique agency. More on Brad:

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:36] Ken opens this week’s episode with a brief chat about Dolly Parton.

[2:57] Bob asks the question, “How does someone even start an agency?” which leads into a conversation about agency basics.

[3:54] Ken “I think most people aren't running an agency that say they're running an agency”

[4:05] Brad talks about the changes within agencies and how the word “agency” carries a negative connotation.

[5:17] Brad asks “What constitutes an agency?” and “If you’re starting an agency, what are the key roles you need?”

[7:30] Ken draws a comparison between agencies and general contractors.

[9:32] Brad says “I prefer the word marketing partner versus agency.” which starts a conversation about the differences between a marketing partner and an agency.

[11:09] Bob talks briefly about the history of ad agencies and asks “How have traditional ad agencies changed?”

[11:59] Brad explains why Anthem Republic more of a marketing specialist than an agency and how strategy plays a role. “I would say that we're lean and mean, where some agencies get fat. And, and a lot of, you know, it's all about the billing at that point.”

[15:59] Bob talks about how agencies have changed over time. “I think it's romantic to think of yourself as an agency... that is kind of a romantic idea.”

[16:41] Ken continues to chat about change and how it can be a challenge to businesses. “As the landscape evolves, businesses have to evolve.”

[19:31] Bob talks about how businesses are stereotyped as agencies and what the public considers an agency.

[20:52] Ken asks the listeners to consider what they are in light of this episode. “Understanding the specialty that you're in creates a valuable thing for business.”

[21:48] Brad asks how the public perceives marketing companies that are labeled as agencies. “are people searching for agents, the word agencies, are they searching for a marketing company?”

[23:41] Brad inquires how much of a business’ resources should be dedicated to new business.

[24:43] Bob gives a brief rundown on how his business manages its resources concerning new business. He also talks about client managers and client directors and the difference between them.

[27:10] Ken points out that although some clients like the proactive approach, others can feel overly managed. “There's no right or wrong way, but I do think there's a type of client that likes that, and there's a type of client that doesn't.”

[28:54] Bob talks about client management and how it also involves managing the client’s time.

[30:52] Ken talks about how to make your philosophy and intentional choices as a business a benefit to your client. “think about how you uniquely deliver the value that you deliver in that philosophy and then communicate that.”

[33:23] Brad talks about some of the fears agencies have and suggests some ideas that can resolve them. “that's always the fear of business owners is can I keep my staff busy, because if I don't, then I'm letting go and when I let go, I lose resources.”

[35:48] Ken talks about how agencies struggle with the idea of scale.

[37:35] Ken uses billing as an example of how to maximize and amplify a specialist’s time.

[40:13] Brad talks about when people who start agencies focus on trying to fit the mold of an agency, they lose sight of what’s best for their business. “They're trying to fall into a model that makes them feel like they're doing what agencies do. The problem is, they're not looking at it, what's best for their business?” “The past is the past, this is the future. And the agencies or the businesses that are going to succeed are going to do something different.”

[42:15] Bob begins the discussion about non-negotiables in an agency.

[43:10] Brad says that having a savvy business leader with experience that your client will respect is a necessity. “I personally think that strong experience and leadership as far as just the main contact with their direct client is key.”

[44:57] Ken adds that you also need to be a specialist at something.

[47:54] Ken talks about the importance of hiring an organizational staff to keep communications clear and clients happy.

[48:42] Brad wraps up and says that an asset to your team would be someone who, “love their (the client’s) business or their brand more than they do.”

View Details

Summary:

Today we chat about how cancel culture impacts business, brands, and marketing. We talk about how truth is hard to find in the media and how we have the apparent ability to judge others as a massive group, which can be powerful and dangerous. We explore the importance of sincerity as well as the balance between being genuine and expressing an opinion about something that may overstep boundaries with your customers. Throughout this episode we chat about morality and acceptance and the role they play in advertising.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Who benefits most from you believing what you believe? This was one of Bob’s thought provoking questions that he uses in polarizing situations to help gain a more rounded perspective on the issue.
There is a delicate balance between being genuine or passionate about an issue, and overstepping boundaries. Understand the relational dynamic between a brand and it’s customers. Stepping outside of this can come off as awkward and actually harm the cause. If a brand enters a cultural conversation, they must be fully equipped to do so, otherwise they risk being hypocritical. This is exactly how businesses do not want to come across to their customers when developing an opinion on a sensitive issue.
Fighting injustice is crucial, but being self-righteous isn’t the way. We discussed the negative impact cancel culture has on life and business and how our own life experience and opinions often are the main forces that drive it.

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:33] Bob opens this week’s episode with a brief conversation about the recent competition between Facebook and Apple.

[3:36] Brad connects the clash between Facebook and Apple with today’s episode’s topic of canceled culture and its effect on brands, business, and marketing.

[9:19] Brad begins a moral discussion that is articulated throughout this week’s episode. “when does a brand finally go enough is enough?”

[11:27] Ken points out that brands often side with the popular opinion despite their own. “it's really a money thing”

[14:24] Bob talks about his experience in his college mass media course. The one thing that stuck with him was “left to the masses, media will always gravitate to the least common denominator”

[16:49] Ken acknowledges that there is often more than meets the eye and, “no one's perfect enough to judge another”

[21:04] Brad changes topics and asks about how to deal with sensitive and controverisal issues and clients.

[22:46] Brad says that the best way to balance corporate communication and PR is to “control the narrative versus react to the narrative”

[25:41] Bob expresses his dislike of the term “canceled culture” because it “is an easy way to dismiss consequences, and holding people accountable. And there are times when people need to be held accountable.”

[28:49] Bob also says that in order to put your money where your mouth is, “you have to practically live out what you stand for, or otherwise you will be exposed.”

[37:20] Ken discusses how all media is merely entertainment and thus, rarely any of it is true. “We don't even go through the trouble of understanding is that actually true? And the in this day and age, like anything could be untrue.”

[39:04] Bob explains the thought process that he uses to guide himself when dealing with a sensitive or polar situation. He has 2 main questions he asks to try to gain a more rounded perspective.

“What would happen if what I believe is wrong?”
“Who is benefiting most by me having this opinion?”

[41:44] Brad says that one of the ways he deals with his human predisposition to be a part of a tribe involved in controversial issues is through a quote by Mother Teresa. “You will never see me at an anti war gathering. But I'll always be at a peace rally.”

[44:46] Bob changes gears and talks about a fascinating psychological study done in the sixties by Yale professor Stanley Milgram. In this experiment, a volunteer was instructed to shock a student (in another room) if said student answered a question asked by the instructor incorrectly. The person in the other room was an actor, but this information was not disclosed to the volunteers. Almost all of the volunteers were continuously persuaded by the instructor to continue shocking a random person in another room until this person was unconscious. “If we're in the right environment that fosters and promotes something really unhealthy, it's easy to get wrapped up in it, and to be persuaded, because we want to be part of the tribe. We want to be accepted.”

[51:46] Ken illuminates the injustice, hypocrisy, and mob mentality of social media. “We're sometimes trying to call out injustice, but the fact that we're judging someone as a massive group and destroying their life, that seems unjust.”

[57:39] Bob contemplates the delicate balance of being authentic and passionate and overstepping boundaries. “Because we're always telling brands, be human, be authentic. And then when they do say something we don't like, and it's very human, we go, oh, stay in your lane…

[1:01:47]How do you be human and vulnerable? And at the same time, navigate these issues?”

[1:03:17] Brad concludes this episode with his one liner “we canceled canceled culture”

View Details

Summary:

In today’s episode, we look at the benefits of the iOS 14.5 update to marketers and agencies as they serve their clients. We’ve heard all of the noise about how the privacy updates will kill digital advertising, but the truth is advertising was around way before the tracking that we currently know.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Look to the good - the smart marketers aren’t the ones fighting against the changes. The smart marketers are the ones looking at how they can use the current updates to create better advertising.
The market always wins - The market is perfect in its imperfection. Everything is balanced over time.
Forced innovation - These changes are inherently forcing out old technologies (like cookies) which mean new technologies that are better will have to be created.

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

View Details

Summary:

In today’s episode, we debate the difference between online privacy and online anonymity. It seems we may have the 2 confused in today’s culture. Where does privacy end and anonymity begin? And how does all of it affect us as advertisers? We discuss the difference between privacy and anonymity, the “Big Brother” fear that drives us to desire these things, and how maybe the lack of anonymity is a good thing.

Top 2 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Understand the difference between Data Security and Privacy We often say one but mean the other, and in reality what most Americans are fearful of is the security of their data. Stories of stolen identities are pervasive these days, driving many to desire anonymity online and in real life. Privacy does not mean anonymity, and what we need to have is an awareness of the overreach that is innately linked to all those “Terms & Conditions” contracts that we never read.
There is no “Golden Rule” of Privacy online. There is no objective Privacy Truth. So it’s up to us to learn from our history, to maintain that balance of power and ensure that it does not go unchecked. We need to be protected in a reasonable way, to have a strong awareness of what data we’re giving up and when. It’s up to us to decide how privacy plays a role in our lives online.

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[2:08] Bob introduces today’s episode by catching us up on some recent news. There’s a lot of buzz on the internet about privacy, with names like Facebook, Google, and Apple duking it out over privacy rights. There are those in the government that are sick of the games, and there is a lot of validity to that frustration. As individuals we have a lot of information about ourselves online, and we don’t know where that information begins and ends. Most people are trying to fight for anonymity- which is near impossible on the internet.

[3:59] Bob states his opinion regarding this argument. “If we’re going to engage and function with other human beings, online or offline… if I go out in public and I do these things (go to the grocery store, etc) then I give up certain rights and freedoms to enjoy that luxury and that benefit that I get.”

[5:18] Brad asks “Do you think more Americans have this philosophically deep charge that the government, the world doesn’t need to know who I am?” He tells us about a client in Romania, where they are more used to their privacy being infringed upon by the government in their daily lives. They are not as concerned about who has their data and what’s being done with it, because they already assume ALL of their information is out there and out of their control.

China recently launched a new digital currency that will allow them to know every single charge of every person in their country.

[7:17] Bob challenges anyone who might say “Wow China is awful for doing that,” saying that here in the US we basically do the same thing every time we swipe a credit card, it’s just not a centralized source of information.

[7:47] Bob helps us define privacy, for the sake of clarity in today’s discussion. There is a difference between data security and privacy, in that the overreach isn’t innately a bad thing but not having an awareness of that overreach is the problem. His definition basically says “Don’t bother me, leave me alone. Don’t invade my space.”

[9:45] Bob continues, saying that consumers must have an awareness of what they’re signing up for when agreeing to terms and conditions. It’s really no different than entering into a mutual agreement with a grocery store. You walk in, get what you need, pay with cash or a digital payment method, and in exchange the grocery store keeps a record of your receipt and what you purchased for their own inventory and stock purposes. Downloading an app or singing up for a “free” service online isn’t ever really free.

[12:35] Ken says that some people view privacy as essentially wanting to be invisible. But that’s not how things work in this physical reality- we’re all human beings and we can’t be invisible. In fact, if any of us could potentially walk down the street with invisibility there is a lot we could get away with and a lot of trouble we could create. Having a physical identity in this world keeps us all in check, and that goes a lot deeper than just a government ID.

[13:39] Ken continues, “My point is, on the internet- that kind of happened right? We have the ability to be invisible, we can bully people, we conceal stuff…” So in a lot of ways, complete privacy and anonymity are actually really unhealthy.

[14:59] Bob tells us about a psychological term called the online disinhibition effect that means when we go online we become a different person, which helps to further disengage us from the ramifications of what we are saying and doing online.

[16:10] Brad asks “Do you think that this privacy is different for different generations?” For example, would younger generations have a different grasp on internet privacy and not mind as much overreach, where older generations don’t think about the ramifications of posting on your vacation and letting the world know that your house is empty.

[19:45] Bob “I think online privacy means you don’t want someone hacking into your account and taking your stuff. In other words, it’s the opposite of being left alone.”

[20:48] Brad talks about privacy from a uniquely American perspective. There is a greater and deeper fear for a lot of people in the US that there is a larger government body at work that is looking to centralize everything, that this underground organization is looking to strip us of our God-given rights to freedom.

[23:24] Brad continues, asking if this is what we’re seeing the beginnings of in China with the move to a centralized digital currency.

[24:03] Bob talks about the “Us vs Them” mentality that is pervasive in the US, saying that often we consider ourselves the heroes and paint ourselves in the best light possible. He talks of another perspective, saying that sometimes it may be true that the government really has our best interests at heart. Some people who think this way are okay with their information being out there, because everyone else’s is too.

[27:44] Bob “We have to be careful when we say we want privacy online when we really mean complete anonymity, which ultimately leads to an environment that I would argue is not healthy at all. I don’t want to engage with people that I don’t know who they are, where they are, what kind of people they are.”

[28:45] Brad talks about the last 10 years of data collection that has taken place, only to have it suddenly stripped away and giving us even less information about who we’re marketing to.

[29:14] Bob talks about human’s eagerness to believe that there is something behind the curtain pulling the strings, and how we are continually drawn to a worldview that supports that deep feeling. We live with an open- eyed awareness of the threats to us, evolution has served us all well. This awareness can be a strength but also can be very unhealthy.

[30:13] Brad asks Bob about his ideal world of privacy “Ideally, what would you give and take? And what would that look like? How would you be able to control your own privacy so that you can give away as much as you want?”

[30:48] Bob keeps it simple, saying “I opt toward common sense. Anything that you wouldn’t do in the real world, don’t do online.” He gives some basic advice for maintaining privacy in the real (non-online) world. Shred bank statements, don’t send your financial information via email, use your common sense and think about how you’d handle the same information in a digital format.

[32:50] Brad talks about Apple’s efforts at maintaining privacy for their users with double encrypted messaging applications and the ability to use a uniquely created email instead of your personal email address.

[33:50] Brad wonders what Facebook plans to do as laws and regulations around privacy change- when so much of their revenue comes directly from advertising and then the ability to advertise as well is diminished, where are they going to turn next? Brad has heard of Facebook’s intentions to move into the podcast space, which is a healthy diversification strategy for the times.

[34:58] Bob encourages anyone who does believe that “Big Brother” is out to get them to ask themselves “Who is benefiting from me believing that?” If you can truly be honest with yourself and see that there is likely someone else who is pushing that narrative and benefiting from it.

[36:08] Ken talks about the concept of complete anonymity, saying that ultimately there is no “Golden Rule” when it comes to internet privacy- there is no objective Privacy Truth. So it’s up to us to learn from our history, to maintain that balance of power and ensure that it does not go unchecked. We need to be protected in a reasonable way, and be aware of what we’re giving up and when we are giving it up.

View Details

Summary:

Today we’re talking to Brad Ayres about his daily routine. We talk morning rituals- including reading business and finance news as well as staying up to date in the applicable industries for his clients. As a creative personality that also loves number crunching, Brad’s experience of Agency ownership is deeply dependent on delivering results. This means gathering, deciphering, and understanding the data on a daily basis, and lucky for Brad this is also deeply interesting and life-giving for him. He opens up about finding a balance of rational and emotional thinking when making important decisions, how he deals with stressful situations in business, and the significance of outside passions and hobbies on his mental health. Stay Tuned!

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Fire yourself every day. This means isolating the tasks that are time wasters for you and delegating them, focusing on the forest instead of the trees and using your limited creative/strategic thinking for things that ONLY you can do as an Agency Owner.
Let the data determine the truth. While it can be easy to let your emotions cloud your judgement (difficult clients, downturns in your business, downsizing, etc), gather information about what’s happening and depend on the data to guide your next decision. Understanding the data will help you make more effective, logical decisions.
Data helps you communicate BETTER. In order to be a better marketer, a better communicator, you have to dig into the data to decipher results. Brad considers this his primary role on a daily basis- and you should too! Creating strong results for your clients is the point of running a business, and understanding the data is foundational to this.

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[1:50] Bob opens this week’s episode and introduces Brad- who will be the focus of our Day in the Life Series today. We don’t know a whole lot about Brad, he’s a shy guy and doesn’t like to be the focus of attention- so we need a little background!

[2:32] Brad tells us about his first job interview, it was with a Mad Men-esque guy who asked him to draw a disposable cup on the spot. This was in 198, and he wound up getting a job on the design team there. Before computers, everything was still done by hand and he wound up working in illustrations and even writing copy.

[6:07] Ken asks how he got into advertising and why Brad was drawn to it.

[6:10] Brad talks about graphic design vs graphic communication. “I love that part of being able to come up with strategies… and I love commerce, so for me I could do art but I can do it in a way that can affect people, that can actually affect commerce, can make money.”

[7:30] Brad went to school for graphic design at the College for Creative Studies in Detroit, and at the time the city had more fortune 500 companies than anywhere in the world. So there were a lot of hands-on examples of how their degrees could translate to agencies within different industries.

[9:10] Bob asks about Brad’s day these days… what does a day in his life look like now?

[9:28] Brad Typically waking up between 6 and 7, he’s a slow starter and not a morning person. Step One is getting his coffee, and his brain is wired to think a lot in the morning. He sort of over exercises that muscle in the morning, to the point that he’s almost burnt out by noon. So the day is planned according to that flow of energy.

He reads the news to further help him wake up and clear his mind, sometimes going back for a second cup of coffee. Then it’s time for stock markets and checking on his financial endeavors (markets are open by this time) as well as general business news across different industries. He stays off of social media!
Then he may or may not move into exercise. Before Covid hit, he was part of a 3-morning per week bootcamp workout program but has not been as consistent with it lately. He definitely feels the impact on his mental health.

[12:41] Ken asks about the comparison of having that routine versus what he walks through now. Has there been a notable difference? Is there a substantial mental clarity from working out?

[12:56] Brad talks about the power of having a routine versus not having a routine, saying that if that routine includes exercise that’s even better. He’s noticed that his back tends to get sore more often because he’s sitting for long periods of time, but there are other activities he enjoys and tries to make time for a few times a week. This includes mountain biking and running from time to time.

After movement takes place, he jumps on a few calls for work and moves on with other morning projects (like recording this podcast!).

[15:22] Brad and Ken discuss the “muscle” of thinking analytically, and talk about the value of understanding how to rest that muscle as needed. Brad schedules his time according to this set amount of analytical and social energy, taking calls in the morning if possible but by 1:00 at the very latest. The afternoons are reserved for doing things that don’t take a lot of energy to put together.

[16:16] Ken asks what types of activities Brad schedules in the morning that are better done early than at the end of the day. Strategy meetings, thinking through processes, doing financial spreadsheets, and planning.

[16:38] Brad says that his creative outlet isn’t at the agency anymore, and that’s part of business. You have to always hire people that are better than you, and they have to hire people that are better than then. “Tip #1 for Creative people: Don’t think of yourself as #1, think of yourself as #2 and hire someone that is better than you.”

[17:48] Brad says that the majority of his strategic time is spent understanding and trying to have a really deep grasp on his client’s objectives. He aims at seeing “the full forest” and understanding where there needs to be correction and where to take advantage of new opportunity. He wants to be able to tell clients “This is where you really want to be. Let me show you who you are, where you’re going, why this matters, why it’s important for your bottom line, and what we can do about it.”

[19:15] Brad aims to fire himself every day. This means not doing the things that you don’t need to be doing, and only focusing on the things that only you can do. He calls this pain point out for smaller agencies, saying sometimes it’s impossible to not be involved in these smaller details. But you should always be thinking about how you can fire yourself from these tasks that truly can be delegated out to others.

[21:12] Brad’s roles change according to the need of clients or his team. Overall, his role is strategy and creative director of sorts. He talks about working with people who are passionate about their work and who clearly care about what they are doing. He wants people to have strong convictions about their work and to want to do a great job for clients.

[23:41] Bob talks about how Brad’s strong points are a rare combination. He’s highly analytical and scientific with a very passionate emotional side as well, and the two combined can actually be exhausting. He asks Brad about balancing those two sides of himself.

[25:56] Brad says that while it can be exhausting, he also sees it as a gift. For example, while a lot of artists tend to become ruled by their emotions the rational side of him helps to drive that fear away. “As long as I can get the info, as long as I get enough information that I can make a very informed decision, I can literally turn off the emotion.”

[27:44] Brad continues, saying that he wants his investments to be making more money for him than he could ever possibly make himself. And so every morning includes business news, financial news, updating himself in every industry and every sector- he wants to be as informed as possible about as many industries as possible. His stock portfolios are varied, so his working knowledge needs to be broad as well.

[29:10] Ken points out a couple of Brad’s strengths and habits that help him move into the day with more confidence. Consuming data in the morning helps him to get his groundings and get focused on his purpose and place in life.

Another takeaway for Ken is a teaching of Brads, that your life is really your business. If you pull back from your actual business and look at your life as a whole, that “business” needs to be balanced and fine-tuned and invested in as well. Having a practical understanding of finances and investments and making your money work for you is just one part of being balanced on a life scale.

[31:25] Ken shares that in the last year he has realized that his all-or-nothing personality isn’t necessarily in the best interest of his full “life business” success, and he sees this as something that Brad does well.

[32:22] Bob asks Brad about being a more emotional person, and whether the typical melancholy that comes with creativity is part of his life.

[32:25] Brad says that for him, not so much. The more rational side of his brain keeps this from happening as much. He also gets very excited about technology and changes that are happening with Tesla and Elon Musk. “I think my excitement for life and things like that draw me out of the melancholy.” He talks about being able to identify things that help jumpstart him out of that melancholy if he feels it.

[34:19] Brad continues with his morning routine, saying he will spend usually about an hour with his stock portfolio. Buying, selling, trading, etc. He also looks at his cryptocurrency wallet and guages how those are doing on any given day. “I do all in on almost anything I’m interested in… I’ll be fanatical for a month or two… then I move on to something else that’s interesting.”

[36:30] Bob talks about the importance of learning and being willing to grow- that’s the common thread between morning routines for Brad and Ken both.

[38:47] Ken says that people who aren’t challenging themselves or going outside of their comfort zones also tend to have those limitations in business as well. You have to be willing to try a bunch of things and build that excitement about stepping outside of your comfort zone.

[40:04] Bob talks about how the neuroplasticity of our brains suffers from not challenging ourselves- physically, mentally, emotionally, etc.

[40:41] Ken asks Brad about the types of things he’s doing during his work day. Is he behind a computer all day? Zoom calls all day? Meetings?

[41:02] Brad says that most mornings are spent talking with clients and pushing data results. He is driven by creating results for clients, and so the data is fascinating to him. He says that some people may not care about the way a campaign goes beyond their design input or copywriting, but that’s a pet peeve of Brad’s- people who don’t care about the result, which is the whole point of the business to begin with. In order to be a better marketer, a better communicator, you have to dig into the data to decipher results. Brad considers this is primary role on a daily basis.

[44:00] Bob summarizes how he views Brad’s drive to understand, “It’s about the strategy and doing it the best way so that you can win that game.” He plays to win.

[45:41] Brad also spends a lot of time with his financial controller and works on forecasting to keep tabs on his clients and where they’re at on any given day. He also plays the role of human resources in his company, so there are a lot of tasks that take up his time regarding his employees and the hiring process.

[46:25] Ken asks what Brad incorporates into his day to ensure that he’s not in reactivity mode all day long.

[47:04] Brad uses calendar blocking to help him decrease those unpredictable tasks and possible time-wasters. As soon as a task pops up he blocks time for it and his employees schedule around that. If it’s not on his schedule, he’s not doing it!

[49:45] Ken and Brad talk about the power of processes. “I found that forethought and organization and processes eliminate basically 99% of emergencies. And very few times are actual emergencies.

[49:58] Brad is always working towards firing himself from roles and tasks that he could teach others. Slowly delegating what you can means freeing yourself up to take care of higher-level tasks that ONLY you can accomplish.

View Details

Summary:

Today we’re talking to Bob Hutchins about his daily routine. We talk exercise, journaling styles, self-reflection, and finding creative inspiration- all before setting foot in the office. With experience on both ends of agency ownership, Bob delves into the benefits and challenges of having limited responsibilities as a Director versus full authority as a partner/owner. He opens up about taking risks and the importance of supporting your team’s education and passions, encouraging his own children to not let fear control their decisions, and lets us in on his mantra for living a life IN the game instead of on the sidelines.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Incorporate movement into your day, THROUGHOUT your day- not just in the mornings! Movement of any sort can serve as a brain “reset” button and help you make better, more informed, less emotional decisions.
Foster Learning! As a leader in your business, and as a mentor, there are so many ways that you can encourage your team to get creative and follow their passions within their role. Provide opportunities for continued education and let them know that there is budget for that- they will be encouraged to do so by your own transparency and eagerness to learn as well! “I think if you can help someone better their lives and be the source of that for them, I think it’ll come back around.”
Don’t be afraid to take Risks- There is a way to take risks wisely and intelligently, and this includes being willing to look back at your past history and use that to enlighten yourself. This self-reflection and search for boldness in place of fear is a vital part of who Bob is, and it translates into the way that he leads. His mantra: “Don’t be afraid to take risks, because that’s where you will find your true purpose in life, and it will be the best thing for those around you.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[1:51] Brad updates us on his interest in cryptocurrency.

[2:14] Bob asks if there is a precedence set for people to unintelligently invest just because someone else can drive the price up?

[2:44] Brad says long story short, yes. But there is also a fair amount of wisdom about crypto from people who know Wall Street and the economy- eventually that ability to “pull a fast one” won’t be as appealing.

[8:27] Brad asks Bob about his daily routine- what time does he wake up in the morning?

[8:32] Bob tells us about the start of his days. He usually wakes up at 6 am (earlier on Agency Exposed recording days) and starts with coffee while his family gets ready for school/work. He tries to go for a walk and close out his Apple exercise circle first thing in the morning. His commute to work is about half an hour and he arrives before the rest of his team, where he journals and further prepares for his work day.

[10:44] Bob uses something called a Panda Journal. It’s a short prompted journal exercise that includes things like listing 3 things you’re grateful for, your priorities for the day, and a to do list. It also includes reminders for exercise throughout the day.

[11:40] Ken talks about his habit of longer-form journaling and how much insight it has given him.

[12:35] Brad shares that he often doesn’t get the brain restart that he craves until Friday at 5:00- he asks about how Ken and Bob use journaling to reset their brains and refocus on the day ahead instead of what’s happened already.

[13:38] Bob says that he’s learned over the years to incorporate more movement into his day. “I’ve learned over the years and probably most recently, that I have to act out and move my body to clear my mind.”

[15:48] Bob continues, saying that having a morning routine that includes some movement and COFFEE helps encourage him to wake up and not lay in bed scrolling. After arriving to work, he checks in with his team and makes sure everyone is aligned with their tasks for the day. They use a task management system that helps to provide another layer of support and organization as well.

[17:59] Ken asks Bob how his morning routine has changed over the years- from owning his own agency to being in charge of digital at another one, how has that role change impacted his morning routine?

[20:11] Bob talks about the main differences between where his worries begin and end- for example, in his current role he doesn’t have to be worried about acquiring new business. The best part for him is having a structure and environment where you have so many resources at your fingertips.

[21:51] Brad asks if that decrease in constant pressure has resulted in other benefits like physical health and mental health.

[22:00] Bob says that while owning a business can be physically, emotionally, and mentally taxing, all of those things have a much deeper source and you take them with you no matter where you go.

[24:35] Ken adds that we often tell ourselves that we’ll be happy once we get to a certain point. “I don’t know that it’s so much as excuse as a complete misunderstanding of how things work.” Telling yourself you’ll find happiness when you get to point A, or when a certain relationship is over, or when a certain amount of money has been earned. There is power in realizing that waiting around for the circumstances to change will not make you happier- you carry that baggage around with you wherever you go.

[27:46] Bob says that for him, having creativity in his life is what keeps him inspired and happy. Others may pick up sports or other hobbies, but for him creativity is what keep him going.

[29:11] Bob writes and shares his articles on LinkedIn, about technology and eventually psychology

[30:55] Brad asks Bob what he does at his agency to foster that creativity for his team and as a mentor.

[31:37] Bob talks about letting his personality take the wheel in that realm, saying that he’s not one to micromanage but rather make sure that everyone feels seen and heard, and that everyone knows they can learn something from one another.

He values family and wants his team to put their family first as well, so he makes an effort to be very flexible with family needs. He also encourages his team to better themselves, to get additional training and challenge themselves.

[33:19] Bob “I think if you can help someone better their lives and be the source of that for them, I think it’ll come back around.” In addition, Bob says that he never tries to act like he has everything figured out- he has a willingness to let his employees see when he makes mistakes or does something wrong. This helps to foster an environment of safety, of security, openness, and empathy.

[36:40] Bob and Ken talk about modeling habits and lifestyle choices for employees- if you encourage your employees to learn something new, to engage in something they’re passionate about within your organization, it’s important to equip them for this. Whether they take their own time to invest in this, or you give them time at work to engage in this interest, Bob says that setting the example is the first step.

[38:51] Bob talks about fostering an environment of learning and growth- he says that working in a digital agency means that things change at lightning speed so keeping up with education is vital.

[40:18] Ken talks about how having a passion for your work can often mean that you self-sabotage by trying to learn everything. You can get ahead of the curve by encouraging your team to look into these areas and then talk about what they’re learning. “You need to be in the business of creating more time to do more things, and the only way you can do that is by not doing more things.”

[41:35] Brad asks Bob what he struggles with during his work day that kind of drives him crazy.

[42:08] Bob says that people who are afraid to think outside of the box bug him. Also people who aren’t willing to see down the road to the bigger picture, people who aren’t willing to take risks.

[43:21] Brad asks Bob what his mantra would be, based on everything we’ve talked about today. We know he’s a proponent of living in the moment and keeping your curiosity alive, but how does that translate?

[43:29] Bob talks about the foolishness of “YOLO” and the idea that every individual needs to experience everything they possibly can in life- curiosity going that far into that level of selfishness can be counterproductive to a life well-lived. “There’s a right way to jump off a cliff and a wrong way to jump off a cliff…” The wise way would be to get counsel, talk to others who have been down the same road, who have taken risks and seen the impacts. When you are equipped with that knowledge, when you’ve calculated the risk involved in certain situations, you still need to be willing to jump, to let your curiosity take flight.

[45:37] Bob “Don’t be afraid to take risks, because that’s where you will find your true purpose in life, and it will be the best thing for those around you.”

[46:27] Ken talks about how not taking risks can actually be seen as bad stewardship- and having bad stewardship impacts the people directly inside your life as well, your family and immediate co workers, friends. It’s valuable to have a perspective that says, you’re not chasing your curiosity and taking these calculated risks from a place of selfishness but selflessness, from a place of wanting to truly serve those around you in an impactful way.

[47:09] Bob tells us about raising kids with this mindset as well. When he talks to his adult children, he would much rather them take risks and fail that never take risks at all. They have seen him take risks and fail, but also take risks and reap the rewards. So they can see his journey and decide how to take risks and how to accept those consequences one way or another.

View Details

Summary:

A specific morning ritual is a VITAL part of any business leader’s recipe for success. The ONE thing successful people have in common is the fact that they HAVE a morning ritual. And today we’re going through a day in the life of one of our hosts, Ken Ott. One of the keys to Ken’s day is everything that happens before the work-day starts. We talk: rituals, nutrition, intermittent fasting, bulletproof coffee, morning exercise vs afternoon exercise, weights vs cardio, meeting schedules, balancing various roles, the struggle of staying on track throughout the day, and how he ends his day. Hopefully you find it insightful and inspiring in some small way. Stay tuned!

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Focus on Fitness and Nutrition: Everything you do flows from your physical body, so this is VITAL to daily success - how you think, your attitude, your energy and so much more. Begin your morning with nutrition and movement. Make exercise and weight training a part of your daily schedule… a part of your JOB.
Schedule Your Tasks! As any business leader knows, if it doesn’t get scheduled, it won’t get done. Instead of beginning your day with a task list to check off, schedule blocks of time to complete those tasks and stick with it. This also helps your team understand the value of your time- and allows them to book time with you instead of last-minute meetings that you’re not prepared for.
Have a Daily Team Stand Up Meeting Especially in a time when more and more of us are working from home, having a daily meeting to connect your entire team together is deeply valuable. Ken’s days begin with a team standup meeting to make sure everyone is in sync- not only does this provide support for everyone but also helps to hold one another accountable.

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[1:41] Bob introduces today’s topic- what a day in the life of an agency leader looks like from the inside.

[3:19] Ken shares his workspace- a 1920’s home in downtown Franklin, TN. The home is between 2,500 and 3,000 square feet, and is located in a historic area. The physical office serves more as a flex space and home base for the team. Metacake has around 20 employees, with a core group in Nashville.

[5:48] Ken says that he’s worked with a business coach for several years, and one of the first things they worked on together was his morning ritual. Especially in the service industry, having a jumpstart on your day and being ahead of the game wherever possible is enormously beneficial.

[8:07] Ken’s days start between 5 and 5:30 typically, which means he’s ready for bed by 9:30pm. He starts with nutritional supplements and green juice with bulletproof coffee first thing. “That nutrition in the mornings for me changes the trajectory of my day…”

[10:37] Ken continues, talking about the home gym that he’s built in his garage and how helpful that is to making fitness a priority. Weights aren’t for mornings though! Brisk walks take the place of a heavier workout in the morning, just to wake up fully.

[12:35] Brad reflects on Ken’s discipline and workout structure. He has a constant battle going on between his mind and body- and this keeps him on task and incredibly disciplined.

[14:20] Ken talks about how our bodies were designed to live very different lives than we live now. Even with the best medicine in human history, all the critical illnesses are progressing at higher rates- which clearly points to a lack of understanding of how we were meant to live. Our daily routines and how we live do not properly reflect the healthiest lifestyles for our bodies.

[16:19] Ken talks about metabolic flexibility. For those who practice fasting and diets like keto for a limited time, your metabolism is rewiring itself and your body is being conditioned to burn those calories more efficiently.

[18:23] Ken “I believe it’s my job to be at peak physical fitness so that I can mentally and spiritually also be at my peak… in order to be at the top, you have to train like it. Training can mean different things to different people, although my personal belief is that physical training, mental training, spiritual training are kind of critical.”

He shares a story about after his first child was born. There was a period of about 6 months when he stopped working out and noticed the negative impacts immediately. The spiritual and mental clarity declined as well.

[20:56] Brad says that he uses his Google calendar to block off time for tasks, that way his team members don’t schedule things during times when he isn’t available. It can be easy for your schedule to get booked up quickly otherwise.

[23:05] Ken says this is especially important when you’re a leader. The intentionality behind your scheduling is so valuable. “You’ve got to figure out what is best for my role? What does success mean? And then what are my business goals and how does that translate into actions that I work on?

[24:52] Ken talks about his spiritual foundation and how it impacts his leadership abilities. Centering yourself before the day gets going is vital to grounding yourself in truth that feeds you and allows you to release your frustration.

[26:07] Brad “You’ve got to be intentional otherwise your business will run you, your clients will run you, then you’re just reactive.”

[26:27] Ken says that one of his biggest fears is entering old age and realizing that he’s purely been reactive for his whole life. “You don't want to look back at the end of your life… it would be horrible to feel like I had this talent but never did it because I just reacted the whole time.”

Living in a state of reactivity is kind of like a drug that we actually crave- it allows us to procrastinate. The Eisenhower Matrix helps us define what is important vs urgent, and decide the best use of our time on any given task.
By waking up each day and grounding ourselves in what’s important, what’s within our control, how we bring value into our lives- we allow ourselves to live in a state of proactivity instead of reactivity.

[28:51] Bob talks about the mind-body connection that is a key part of Ken’s daily routine. We live in a post-modern society here in America, where the importance of that connection canNOT be emphasized enough. He shares a story about a relative who was feeling overwhelmed in their role at work and was considering quitting. Bob encouraged him to step outside, walk around the block several times, do some body weight exercises and call back in an hour. And that made all the difference in the world for this individual’s mindset that day.

[30:57] Ken further drives this point home “When you feel down and you feel low energy and you feel not enough and not worth it and depressed or stressed, that can be a result of and be influenced by activity… it’s all biology.” He talks about how our culture has separated that assumed connection, and says the way we live our lives reflects that.

[32:13] Bob talks about fear and anxiety, saying that many of us stare fear in teh face every day but don’t take action. “We never react, we just keep compounding it,” and our bodies don’t know what to do with that kind of pent-up energy. He talks about how animals on the plains of Africa will shake and run in place after a narrow escape from a predator- they’re essentially working out that energy that their hormones kicked up, and then they go about their day. We as humans have lost that connection- so taking steps to be proactive about this is the focus of today’s episode.

[34:30] Ken talks the importance of having awareness of that mind-body connection. He says that lifting weights and building muscle is a priority for him, as it changes your biology in a really good way. Try doing these things as early in the day as you can, “Because everything after that point… you will think more clearly, you’ll have more ideas, you’ll be more creative, you’ll be lower stress, you’ll have a higher ability to make quick decisions…”

[35:47] Brad echoes this point, “My brain works so much better when I’m active!” He asks Ken what time his days start, work-wise.

[36:45] Ken’s work day begins with an 8:45 daily stand up meeting, with the goal being everyone doing a version of planning before that meeting and then sharing their top 3 goals for the day. There is open discussion as everyone shares their list, and team members can help one another focus on priorities and clearing up any confusion. They discuss any meetings that day, and the result is everyone being aligned on their tasks and goals for the day. This helps hold people accountable for moving projects along and completing tasks.

“If people aren’t moving forward in what they’re doing, if they’re not accomplishing things, ultimately, they’re going to burn out, and they’re not going to be motivated. So you need to have that movement, human beings need that movement.”

[38:58] Ken’s days typically flow into creative tasks from there. Mornings are creative times, so he focuses on content creation, podcasting, writing, and those kinds of things in the morning. Afternoons are for meetings and things that take less creative brain power. He tries to fit his workout into lunch time.

In the past he’s struggled with feeling guilty for working out midday- but considers that an ignorant mindset on his part.
Early afternoon is where he aims for his days to slow down. His kids are young and he tries to get finished up with work as early as possible so he can spend that valuable time with his kids.

[40:39] Bob talks about how he learned this lesson later in life than he would have liked. “It was definitely detrimental to my family, my relationships, but ultimately at the end of the day my performance in my business” suffered as well.

[42:23] Ken clarifies that his goal isn’t to do these things perfectly, but rather being strategic and intentional about his time to maximize his energy and allow himself to truly enjoy the rest of his life.

[43:11] Ken talks about the end of his days, saying that the way you end your day is a bookend to your morning routine. The last thing you’re doing before bed is what you’ll carry into sleep, and it will impact the next day somehow. There is a deep advantage to ending your day in a positive way, and easing yourself into sleep that is truly restful and regenerative.

[45:07] Ken says that he tries to end his day thinking about what his next day will look like. He tries to be intentional how the next day will begin, jotting down notes before bed to give his brain a jumpstart on solving those problems. Your brain can do a lot of work while you sleep!

View Details

Subtitle:

Understanding how to price your services is both complex and challenging, and there are a LOT of variables at play. Do you price based on effort or value? Do you prepare for haggling or give your final price upfront? Are you too expensive or not expensive enough? There are pros and cons with every decision and the lack of discussion around this topic makes for widely scattered strategies. Today we discuss how we price services and why.

Summary:

In today’s episode we talk about the psychological implications of pricing strategies and how those strategies impact client relationships. We discuss leveraging those initial sales pitch conversations to learn as much about the client’s vision as possible, agreeing on the lifetime value of a customer and how that lifespan plays out within your agency, billable hours versus man hours and how to price fairly according to both… and more. We’re digging deep in this one, and getting vulnerable about our experiences pricing clients of all sizes and stages of growth. Stay tuned!

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Keep your clients informed about their ROI in real time. This does NOT just mean a dollar amount, but creating a narrative around the raw data that paints a real-time picture of the value you provide. This builds confidence in what you can offer and as a result, increases trust. And we all want to feel more trust from our clients.
Establish a Vision for your clients upfront. Not just a vision for the specific project, but a long-term vision for the future of their company. Your clients need to be just as invested in these things as you are- and if they’re not, take that as a sign that maybe they’re not the best fit for your agency.
Understand what you can control versus what you can’t! Then leverage those that you can control to create predictable results for your clients AND your business.

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[1:41] Bob introduces today’s topic- pricing and pricing models. He and Ken discuss discounts and where they can be used as a strategy.

[2:10] Bob asks whether Brad or Ken have seen changes in their pricing over the last year.

[2:32] Brad says that they’ve had some clients as for reductions in specific areas but overall they’ve not changed their pricing as an agency.

[2:45] Ken “We’ve tried more and more to get out of the box pricing going.” This means more consistent pricing for a scoped project.

[3:40] Bob shares his experience over the last year, saying that although the agency he works for hasn’t moved to out of the box pricing they have developed more strategy sessions, assessments, audits, and other things that put parameters on a project. This helps to give a more accurate estimate and increases confidence that the client can trust you with their marketing dollar. This is especially important in the current climate when some companies may be tempted to hold back on their spending.

[5:25] Ken The goal is to make it an easy “yes” for your potential clients!

[5:59] Brad talks about the difference between selling the commodities side of your services versus things that can’t be price checked. This harkens back to the idea that in business you can be the Cheapest, the Best, or the Only- and if you’re the Only there is no price checking that is truly comparable.

[7:51] Brad continues, saying that the first step is taking a realistic look at your pricing model. Can you offer a reduced price for clients who make a long term commitment? How can you build new features into your pricing to offer a competitive advantage over other agencies?

[9:01] Ken talks about building extreme value into your pricing model, saying it doesn’t have to mean cheap. Instead, you want to provide an outcome that far outweighs the cost.

[9:31] Brad stresses the importance of making sure you understand the return on investment that you’re giving back to your clients. Because if they see that you’re making them 10X, they’re not going to leave- and they’re not going to call you expensive. They’re going to call you awesome!

[11:39] Brad shares a story about a client whose consumer product ads are getting high as far as cost of acquisition. While from one perspective, some may say this is the time to pull back because of cost, Brad knows that they are gaining 1000s and 1000s of people’s awareness of their product. This is an example of how keeping your clients up to date about their real time ROI is so important!

“And so if you look deep into the story, and you build the narrative, then you can communicate that to your client and let them do what they want to do with that, because then it’s not always positive.”

[12:52] Bob stresses the importance of having a clear understanding of how the client defines success. If you’re already not speaking the same language with a client as far as this goes, then there is likely to be a lot of miscommunication down the line.

Having a clear understanding of strategy on both sides of the relationship is so important- along with agreeing on the lifetime value of your customer and what that lifespan looks like. “If you can have those nailed down for each client, then you’re in the seat of being the expert.”

[17:00] Ken talks about initial conversations with clients, saying that often the conversation gets cannibalized by talking about website design or details that don’t have anything to do with the end goal. Trying to talk about those small details during that first conversation “It’s like talking about all the turns you’re going to make in a trip, rather than talking about where you need to be.”

[20:12] Brad asks if Bob and Ken include the time it takes to provide estimates in their final pricing models. If so, is this something that they tell their clients?

[20:35] Ken says that Metacake tracks that time, but they don’t include it into their pricing. This is mostly because it can be so complicated to build in appropriately.

He recalls a previous episode where we discussed putting together more deep proposal type projects that clients can either agree to use or then take and use themselves. That cost could be then discounted from their project if they decide to work with Metacake, or they pay a fee and then take that plan and execute on their own.

[24:41] Ken shares his experience working with clients who have internal chaos and constant turnover or change in leadership. It can make the strategy and long-term vision for the company as a whole very difficult to figure out. It also creates an innate power imbalance from the very start, and puts the agency in a defensive posture.

[27:37] Ken “If you don’t care enough to talk about it, you’re probably not gonna care about my time to talk about it… if you’re not willing to apply your effort into and focus just for a period of time… you’re probably not going to value my time either.”

[28:45] Bob asks if Ken or Brad provide hourly rates that help determine their retainer pricing.

[28:53] Ken asks another question- is pricing based on hours, or value, or results?

[29:03] Brad says their rate is based on hours, but also monthly man hours- or the actual number of people that will be working on the project and how much of their workload will actually be dedicated to that project.

[30:00] Brad continues, saying that they do special pricing for new projects, or things they haven’t done before and aren’t 100% sure of how they should be charging. In those situations they’ll typically give a range, so that clients have a ceiling expectation and you can work towards coming in under that estimate. Later down the line this is helpful as well, because if you come across a roadblock that means more money from the client, they already trust that you’re providing value.

[33:47] Ken talks about separating the things that you can control versus the things that you can’t, and leveraging those that you can control as a way to create predictable results. When you are able to peel those things back, you can build them as a flat fee service.

[36:14] Brad says that it is important to understand your billable multiplier is to your talent. When you have several different roles within your organization with all different experience levels and salaries, it’s more difficult to charge by man hours. But in the end, agencies are human resource companies. Humans are the resource that provide the excellence in work. It is worthwhile for you to take a good look at your billable multiplier and understand your profit center.

[39:48] Brad says that clients think in terms of hours- and so it’s on the agency to communicate in a way that the client will understand and is based on time in some way.

[45:08] Brad asks if Bob and Ken have clients that demand total transparency.

[45:32] Bob mentions that his agency builds a dashboard that clients can access at any given moment and see where they are in spending, the status of their deliverables, which parts of the project are outstanding, and more. At any given time, there is complete transparency.

[46:15] Ken “I think there’s a transparency that is unhealthy when that pierces through the projects into your business model,” he says. If clients are wanting to know about your profit margin or question your business model, that is a sign that your value may be undermined from the jump.

[47:40] Ken “Let's end with a question that I asked at the beginning, which is do you discount? Because I think that discounting conversation does tend to get into meddling with the model a little bit. He asks, “Would you discount for people when they say hey can you show me a little love here…”

[47:56] Bob says that he only offers discounts when it’s used to sell a project from a marketing perspective. Offering a discount for a year-long retainer versus a 6-month engagement is a sales tactic, ultimately. It comes down to being able to come up with creative marketing solutions- if you can continue to come up with these solutions past 6 months then it’s probably a client worth a longer contract.

[50:23] Brad explains that long story short, if you feel like the discount may not be adding to the long term value of your client relationship then it’s probably not going to be the best choice for your business.

[50:55] Ken “I think that the ultimate thing that you want to protect is having a balanced relationship in the future.” If there is more gameplay on the front end, that is a sign that the long term psychological impact may be detrimental to the relationship.

[52:47] Brad says you should have a strong awareness overall of where you stand in your pricing. At Anthem, if a client decides not to go with the RFP they’ve received, Anthem’s team will then reach out and ask where they compare as far as pricing goes. This will help you understand how to make adjustments to better serve your potential clients. Getting feedback from clients that decide not to work with you also serves as a reminder of you for the future.

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Summary:

Last week’s episode was all about preparing for the next downturn- today we’re flipping the script. How do you prepare for good times? How do you prepare to bring about good times? And when those good times come how do you MAXIMIZE them and not squander them. As a business leader, complacency and lack of intentionality are a dangerous combination. Don’t lose sight of the discipline you developed during the hard times, because it will help fuel investment and create something of REAL value far into the future!

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Provide a story to communicate value. This starts with the sales pitch. Prepare your pitch to cater to these fears you know your clients are feeling- acknowledge the risk, and tell them where they can safely invest for growth well into the future.
Come out of the Bunker! The unpredictability of business can feel like war. Know when it’s time to come out of your bunker and take a look at how you can invest for the future. Don’t let your fear of the future stall your business growth.
Systematize your Processes! This is just one way of leveraging scale in your business- and it is particularly important during times of disruption when turnover is high. Systematizing your processes now means having a plan for the future.

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[1:48] Bob welcomes us to this week’s episode. Last week’s topic was a bit negative- we talked about what business looks like in a bear market. This week we’re talking about how you can maximize in good times to prepare for the inevitable bad times.

[2:47] Ken asks about the trajectory of business over the last year. Are profits back to normal? Over where they were before? Worse overall?

Brad’s agency, Anthem, has been steady all year long. They did some preparation right at the start of Covid and cut extra expenses. They leaned up early on, and so now a year later their profits are actually above where they were in pre-Covid 2020.

[4:09] Bob’s agency is larger, and even they have stayed steady through Covid. He’s seen medium to bigger sized companies loosening up and coming out of a sense of fear about spending and new initiatives.

[5:06] Ken talks about how 2020 was definitely unpredictable, but something changed in 2021. “The challenge is that you need to stay in a lean mindset and also a forward-thinking mindset.”

[6:57] Ken offers his thoughts about a post-covid world. Ultimately, the Covid numbers don’t matter in that there is no real way to move back to the “old way” of life.

[7:40] Brad thinks that by year’s end we’ll be moving back to having concerts and getting together in larger groups- this stimulation of the economy will provide even more positivity and hope for things to get “back to new normal.”

[8:09] Ken speaks about the psychological challenge that lay ahead for marketers in the travel industry (and other industries that have been severely impacted by the pandemic)- those people have been traumatized, we all have. So those marketers have a particularly large challenge in that they have to make people feel safe enough to purchase.

[9:36] Brad thinks that the sign that fear is going down will be that the masks appear less and less. Fear is a powerful driver for the economy, but as we stand firmly in the “Post-COVID” reality that fear will dissipate.

“After the last recession, what I learned is that as quickly as things go down, things pick up as well.”

[11:09] Brad asks if there is anything that Ken and Bob are doing in 2021 to capitalize on the pick-up that the economy is sure to experience in the coming years.

[11:59] Bob provides some historical context, as always. “Anytime that there was either an urgency, a war, pandemic, new technology, societies benefited from that in ways that for those who have eyes to see it can really benefit from it.”

“And I think… people being forced online, I think it's cemented ecommerce into the psyche of the world... I don't think we're going to have to convince anyone to get on board with digital marketing and e commerce moving forward.”

[16:14] Ken talks about the danger of complacency and not having awareness of your actions. Things may be good now, but don’t lose your disciplined mindset that you developed when things weren’t so good. “I think if you can keep your discipline, but also keep your focus and passion on what you're supposed to be doing… utilize the good times as the fuel to invest and make things even better… then you have the opportunity to create something of real value.”

[17:11] Brad asks the guys “What are some things that you feel are on the horizon where agencies can position themselves to take advantage of this additional swell of business?”

[17:44] Bob repeats a mantra that we talk about often here on Agency Exposed. In business, you’re either the cheapest, the best, or the only. “These are the times- the good and prosperous times- where you can start figuring out how to become the Only… you’ll have the resources, the time, the money, and the technology available at your fingertips to potentially figure that out.”

[18:30] Brad says that by the time fall rolls around and the holidays are upon us, we’ll have a much better image of what the economy actually looks like. And even then, we won’t know those final numbers until January or February. This is representative of the lag indicators in our economy.

[19:05] We talk about unemployment numbers and how they’re still low, overall.

[19:58] Ken talks about innovation, and how it is the most important thing to focus on when things are good. This actually places digital agencies in a great position, because moving forward in the ecommerce space is at the top of that innovation list.

[22:37] Bob talks about companies coming to him frustrated with inaccurate attribution due to the stack of software they’re working with. “What you’re going to see is those companies pulling money back and putting it somewhere else… we need to be prepared to say here’s where you can put that money- into telling good stories, into more accurate attribution than other platforms.”

[23:16] Brad says that providing a story behind attribution is VITAL when talking to your clients- not just the numbers but how they played out. They need to understand that their ROAS isn’t just about analytics, there’s a lot more to the picture.

[24:32] Bob adds to Brad’s point, saying that it’s more of an investment in time and talent into the top and middle of the funnel.

[25:47] Ken asks, “What would you guys invest in inside of your business, if things were really really good right now?”

[26:32] Brad says sales and developing strong leads via personal connections and relationships.

[28:46] Ken talks about how trauma puts you in a protective stance. “I focus so much mental energy into trying to condition myself to be able to make quick decisions despite things that have happened.”

[29:18] Brad makes the analogy that surviving the past year for some has felt akin to war. We’ve been holed up in our bunker and don’t even know that the shellings have stopped and we are almost safe to go out and grow and invest again. He still feels like it’s not quite safe.

[31:01] Bob “I would invest in R&D on the measurement and CRO side. That continues to be the main thing that people struggle with.” He knows there will be a gap in knowledge for a lot of businesses, because they’re so used to automation and Facebook-style marketing efforts. And that’s where we as agency leaders come in and fill in that gap.

[33:16] Ken says that diversifying revenue streams is the most important thing for him. If you’re not actively doing it, at least do the R&D to know where you may diversify.

[35:12] Bob says that systematizing your processes is another great place to invest. Because turnover is one of the first issues that happens for many businesses during hard times, having systems in place to quickly train new people or new roles can make a world of difference.

[36:18] Ken talks about systematizing as a way of leveraging scale in your business. You can scale people if you know how to slot them into those processes.

[42:49] Brad talks about project management tools like Asana that allow you to create video snippets that help introduce new hires more easily. This is much more palatable for people to take in than a stack of papers.

[47:49] Brad continues, saying that stored value of a company is creating an engine that is run by processes that can be filled by people in an efficient way. Having distinct processes inside of your business means that there is inherent value in what it offers, not just a strong relationship with one person in your organization.

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Disclaimer:

In this episode we talk about our experience in reading the market and preparing. We talk about our interpretations of current conditions and what that means for our business, but this is not financial advice. Please consult your professional advisor before taking any actions based on what you hear.

Summary:

In this week’s episode, we talk doom and gloom, and ode back to 2008 and 2020. Why? Because there’s extreme opportunity in downturns IF you are prepared for them. And when do you prepare for them? In the good times. Learn from the past to optimize the future. How has that past experience impacted the way we make decisions looking forward? In retrospect, were there signs of what was to come? What could you put into place NOW to preserve the value of your wealth? How can we prepare in a REAL way to gain ground when the next downturn comes?

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Get financially secure. Your goal should be to have 12 months of accessible operating capital on hand at any given moment. This security gives you confidence while others are scrambling.
Tax Yourself. You read that right- Tony Robbins calls it a wealth tax. The government raises your taxes and you figure it out. Give your business a “wealth tax” or “profit tax” and you’ll figure it out just the same.
Be a student of the markets. You may not be interested in the financial markets. That doesn’t matter. As a business leader your job is to be able to read indicators and predict the future. Learn to read indicators and translate them to what that means for your business.

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[3:07] Bob introduces today’s topic by talking about the stock market and how things are generally on the financial “up”. It’s a bull market right now, which is also a great time to prepare for the inevitable downturn in the future. Bob asks: If there was something drastic that could change the way we run our agencies tomorrow- what would that thing be?

[5:09] Brad talks about how we are teetering on the edge of a bull market- and he’s still carrying scars from the financial crisis of 2008 that cut marketing budgets significantly. The situation we’re in now isn’t that drastic, more of a “frog-in-the-skillet” situation.

This refers to the adage about a frog who doesn’t realize it’s being cooked because the temperature increased slowly over time. This implies that there is a feeling of waiting for something to happen- and Brad feels it too.

[5:43] Brad continues, saying that the bull market is a reflection of a stock market that only shows the short-term- it is based on key metrics that aren’t yet known. In 2020, we’ve printed more money than since 1980- the result is that we either increase taxes to pay for this inflation or we experience it directly.

[7:34] Bob talks about how stimulus checks have encouraged some families to buy- which really is the purpose, to stimulate the economy. Brad agrees, saying it isn’t meant to be a savings plan for people but really just a band-aid on a larger problem.

[9:13] Brad says of course there are people who really do need that extra $3,000, and there’s other people that are out shopping and “stimulating” the economy. “However they’re stimulating the economy and at the same time we’re devaluing the dollar.”

Ultimately, Brad says, we’ve never printed so much money in such a short period of time while we’ve been using Fiat currency. So we don’t exactly know the long-term result and consequences of what is happening. A lot of things could happen, and certainly something will happen. How do you prepare your business for the downturn when it happens- whenever that time comes?

[11:13] Ken The change may not be sudden like in 2008. “It’s possible that everything that’s been happening in the last 12 months will create a gradual decline, and we might just start feeling it across the board in different ways.”

[12:36] Brad shares his experience of the 2008 financial crisis and proceeding recession. Living in LA and being dependent on contract work meant he was primed to feel the impacts pretty immediately. The first sign was clients getting behind on their payments, and eventually he found himself a few months behind on income.

[15:04] Brad continues, adding some advice to his past self “I didn’t prepare properly… I would say have a year’s worth of income.” He gives further explanation of the indicators to look for when preparing for the unknown.

16:08 Keep an eye on interest rates. When they creep up, the housing market slows down- and we only have to look at 2008 for how that scenario could end.
Also, new car sales. Big purchases slowing down overall is a nice set of high-level indicators that trouble may be brewing.

[18:01] Ken had a different experience in 2008. He and his wife had just moved to Franklin and at the time he was a full-time contractor working in the digital advertising space. Although there was a general downturn at the time, being at the forefront of technology served him well and provided a nice cushion from the fallout.

[20:38] Bob talks about positioning for the downturns- he says that just as Ken was in a good position for that situation, there are businesses that were prepared for the downturns that happened due to Covid. The lesson is that you can prosper and benefit in these times if you’re prepared.

[21:27] Ken clarifies that he wasn’t in that situation on purpose- not back then. But now, it’s so important that as a business leader you become a sort of student of these financial indicators of what is happening. You always have to be positioned to think about what your business is becoming.

[24:51] Brad says that if you can, try to have at least 12 months of capital to run your business.

[25:58] Ken agrees, saying that moving towards 3 months in your bank account and the other 9 months somewhere else that you can access fairly quickly. You want low risk, as liquid as possible for your assets and savings in business.

[27:54] Bob wants to unpack this concept, where to get 12 months of capital and how to get to that place.

[28:18] Ken talks about the idea of profit first- Tony Robbins calls it a wealth tax. The concept is that because your business will use whatever you give it, giving yourself a wealth or profit tax every year that you then put into savings for yourself in the future. If the government raised tax rates you’d figure out a place to get that in your budget, so jump ahead and take it out first.

[36:19] Brad talks about knowing how at-risk your industry is in terms of a downturn and how diversification plays into this risk. For example, Anthem’s clients during Covid were in healthcare technology, so they didn’t feel the effects as much as some of their other clientele. For Anthem, that diversification in clients made up for the potential for loss.

[37:38] Ken “I think we have to put aside our assumption that things are going to be around…” Run scenarios where your industry specialization is suddenly gone, and you’re reliant on your other means of making money.

[38:10] Brad and Ken talk about how these conversations can be depressing, but Bob highlights the difference. Talking about this and planning during the middle of a good time is different than during a bad time, because in a good time these conversations can be empowering. “It’s strategic, healthy, and helps your company to evolve and get stronger… in the middle of a bad time it’s too late and you’re scurrying.”

[39:39] Ken mentions another simple recommendation to prepare for the worst right now- get your receivables in order! Digital payments from clients instead of billing and physical checks. Now is a perfect time to have that conversation with clients, because it is physically more difficult to accept checks- and one of the first signs of the 2008 financial crisis from Brad was unpaid invoices.

[42:03] Bob talks about making even larger investments as a business when things are good- at a previous agency they invested in the residential units above their office space to help cover the mortgage. “It’s opportunities like that, when things are good to say, what’s my biggest cost center right now that I’m throwing money down a hole? How can I turn that into some sort of investment vehicle?”

[45:13] Bob and Brad discuss the other signs that there is a bubble soon to pop- the real estate market is an obvious example. In place like Nashville, homes have nearly tripled in value in less than 20 years- but income hasn’t kept up.

[47:32] Brad says that it takes a lot of self-discipline to buy when things are down, to position yourself to be able to take advantage of those opportunities when they arise.

View Details

Summary:

In this week’s episode, we discuss NFTs, the ongoing privacy vs marketing-tech saga, and get deep on the moral obligation of marketers.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

What on earth is an NFT? NFT stands for non-fungible token. “It's a digital asset that is on a blockchain and it’s yours. If you buy it, it’s your. And it’s indisputably yours.” They serve as a method of regaining personal control over original content. The ramifications of these becoming more popular are more wide-reaching than you’d think.
Understand finance (more on this in the next episode). Understanding where to and how to use your company’s assets and make sure that your dollar is worth as much as it can be worth… these are really important things.” Prioritize developing an investment strategy that understands and uses the latest investment technology.
Be part of the solution not the problem. Consumer trust is low. Anxiety is high. Don’t lie in your advertising. As agency leaders, it’s important that we “use our skillset to do what we do without violating morals and character and ethics, and letting the product stand for itself.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000-2017. He is currently the VP of Digital Marketing at 5by5 Agency. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:31] Bob welcomes us to today’s episode, starting off with Brad’s knowledge about the world of NFTs.

[1:53] Brad defines an NFT for us- Non-Fungible Token. “It’s a digital asset that is on a blockchain and it’s yours. If you buy it, it’s yours. And it’s undisputable, yours.”

Typically represents something that’s a digital asset. Could be a song, could be a piece of art. Once you own it, you can resell it for more than you bought it for.

[2:46] Brad continues, saying that there are many marketplaces to buy. Typically purchasing through a wallet like Coinbase for digital currency is the most popular way.

[4:32] Ken mentions that NFTs are becoming more popular because the US dollar and fiat currency is being continually devalued.

[6:01] Brad brings the conversation back around to how this devaluing impacts business. During the financial crisis of 2008, the first thing that got cut were marketing budgets. And during the beginning of Covid, the same thing happened.

[6:48] Brad continues, talking about how Tesla recently bought $1.5 billion in Bitcoin and officially started accepting Bitcoin as payment in the US. The idea is that as the value of the dollar goes down, Bitcoin is going up. Brad predicts that many more companies than ever will start to report cryptocurrency in their quarterly reports.

While you can go and spend 60,000 bitcoin on a Tesla, in another few months that 60,000 bitcoin will be doubled and you could have bought 2 Teslas… meanwhile Tesla as a company is making double off that 60,000 that you gave them.

[8:15] Bob ties this into the changing definition of customer lifetime value. He talks about the changing currency in recent decades, saying that debit and credit cards have already replaced cash, so moving on to a different currency altogether that is purely digital isn’t such a reach.

[10:29] Brad talks about how NFTs and blockchain technology will actually be able to protect original content- the phenomenon of Deep Fake videos will be defunct, because the NFT of that original video will make it obvious when something has been altered.

[11:45] Bob talks about the music genome project that started back in the mid-late 90s. It was used by Pandora to deliver customized playlists and content to their users. It radically changed the way that users interact with music, changing the primary method to digital instead of physical copies of albums or records.

[12:20] Ken speaks on the impact this has had on Nashville as a music city. Copyright protections were difficult to adhere to, because there was no real way to track those things digitally. But now, with NFTs, that content will be protected.

[14:53] Ken continues, “Understanding where to and how to use your company’s assets and make sure that your dollar is worth as much as it can be worth… these are really important things.” Prioritize developing an investment strategy that understands and uses the latest investment technology.

[15:42] Brad talks about privacy, saying that people are wanting control back in their lives. These technologies are being developed to give us that personal control- over our businesses as well.

[17:18] Ken says this is happening in ecommerce as well. “Some businesses will think whoa, one of my biggest revenue generators is owned by somebody else.” For example, people running Facebook ads having their accounts shut off and have no control whatsoever over getting their account back up and running.

[19:28] Bob summarizes the points that are being made- Privacy and Truthfulness or accuracy. These are the commodities going forward, and if you can substitute accuracy for truthfulness then the game is changed. “The only reason we don’t have an AI world where robots run everything is because nobody is totally secure with their privacy issues.”

As privacy gets back into the hands of consumers, marketers won’t have as much information to work with, so it comes back around to being a good storyteller who creates amazing creative product and understands the psychology of humans.

[21:38] Ken continues, saying that marketers rely on data and if that data becomes privatized, you can no longer prey on people based on their data.

[23:39] Bob references an article he read recently: “Apple’s move to block user tracking spawns new digital ad strategies.”

[27:30] Brad talks about generational truths and how older people came from a time when the news was true and trusted. Compare that mindset to millennials who have never had a stable source of truth or information- they are highly suspicious of anything being sold to them.

[30:51] Ken talks about the runaway effect of opinions online- even reviews are easy to fake. As advertisers, how can you be aware of these things and why is that important?

[31:54] Bob says that if these products were bought as NFTs on the block chain, there could be permissions for reviews that you only get if you’ve purchased. So faking reviews can be worked around and protected.

[33:40] Ken talks about changing marketing strategies to accommodate for the lack of belief/truth/honesty that customers often feel when they are inundated with messaging. As marketers, it’s going to be increasingly important to lower that volume and increase the quality of the messaging.

[34:49] Ken asks, “What is the moral obligation of advertisers in a social platform like Facebook?” He talks about the challenges of invading privacy with information and tracking and the negative impact that can have on mental health overall.

[36:30] Bob says that in the future, having social psychologists and more moral/ethicist thinkers in business will be commonplace. He speaks about a psychological phenomenon called the Dark Triad- Machiavellianism, which says that the ends justify the means at all costs, Narcissism, which says that I’m the most important and no one else matters, and Psychopathy, or lack of feelings/emotions/empathy. This Dark Triad creates horrendous results in business and psychology.

As we become more aware of this, there will be a push for more moral ethics around business and marketing.

[40:32] Bob talks about Qanon. Recently the original Q poster said, “Well, it was a great ride, we made a lot of friends, and let’s move on and be good to each other.” Did these guys even believe the vitriol they were spewing for the last 4 years? Probably not- they knew that creating these viral videos, preying on user’s data and information, their fears, etc would create clicks and generate revenue for them.

[42:00] Ken talks about a famous marketer who explained that they don’t care whether someone votes for one party or the other- either way they’ll create Facebook ads to serve both sides where they’re at. In real life, that would be considered two-faced. But in marketing, in business, online- there are no limits.

[48:37] Ken talks about the moral obligation of marketers, saying “We use our skill set to do what we do without violating moral standards and character and ethics, and letting the product stand for itself… If the product’s not that good, you’re at least doing the best to put the product on the correct pedestal. And letting it win or lose.”

He talks about putting your image on the line as an agency leader, saying that putting your own personal reputation on the line does make it easier to make those straightforward moral decisions in your business.

[50:17] Bob “This is why society doesn't like marketers… we’re one run above a used car salesman…” There is a distinct lack of honesty and ethics in marketing, traditionally.

[52:54] Ken talks about the leverage that agencies have over what people think and feel- and marketers are a vital part of our economy. When it comes down to brass tacks, think of the ad dollars that are running through these morally bankrupt concepts and strategies- the percentage of the problem that is attributed directly to advertisers is larger than we’d think.

[53:14] Bob stresses the importance of understanding these changes in privacy on a grand scale- the leaders in technology are being questioned and challenged by the US government. This isn’t a small issue that will come and go; it’s something that agency leaders need to take very seriously and educate themselves on.

[54:26] Brad asks “What brands do you think are hitting the spot and doing it right? That feel legitimate and aren’t trying to be greedy with their advertising?”

[54:44] Bob says Netflix is one example. They are a company that is focused on creating really great content, owning the channel and doing a great job with it.

[55:12] Ken talks about companies that aren’t being publicly traded- brands like Tony Robbins who are being genuine and authentic about what they’re selling.

[56:03] Bob talks about agencies moving toward becoming production companies instead of purely media companies. The podcast industry and book public publishing, streaming services- telling good stories and creating great experiences through interaction with the content.

[58:50] Brad says that he likes companies that don’t actually have to market much. Companies like Tesla don’t have to market much, because the product speaks for itself.

If you’re all message with no real meat about the actual product, you can’t sustain.

View Details

Summary:

In this week’s episode, we’re sharing our perspectives on privacy and how data tracking and targeting capabilities have shaped the advertising industry. We discuss what privacy means to us as consumers and as agency leaders, and we even explore how reduced targeting could actually be a good thing for our industry. After all, great content that tells a great story will always be what sells… and you don’t have to infringe on someone’s privacy to create an effective ad.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

“Privacy” is more important than you might think? On a psychological level, privacy is how we build our relationships, uphold our creativity, and engage in our own self-awareness. For the platforms we use, privacy may have an entirely different definition, but the impact of that infringement is still the same.
When you have privacy, you have certainty. Without privacy, that certainty disintegrates and leads to anxiety—our culture is suffering from this on a massive scale.
People shouldn’t have to give up their privacy to get relevant advertising. Advertisers have been led to believe that if you target well, you’ll see conversions. This approach completely undermines the importance of creating a great ad. Great ads were created before targeting, and they will continue after targeting—they just require more creativity on our part. Great content that tells a great story will always be what sells.

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

Resources Mentioned:

The Tech-Wise Family: Everyday Steps for Putting Technology in Its Proper Place by Andy Crouch

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:37] Bob introduces today’s episode, Is Silicon Valley Trying to Kill Facebook?

[2:09] Bob continues, talking about the real power that Facebook has in our culture right now. Recently Google made a quiet announcement that they will no longer use third party or private cookies for tracking, which means no more Facebook tracking—and no more tracking in general. This can obviously be seen as a blow to big platforms like Facebook, as it threatens the way that their ad system works.

[6:12] Brad talks about the beginnings of Facebook, saying that it was created to perpetrate on humanity, and is still being used in this way—with our data.

[7:13] Ken quotes someone from Google who said, “People shouldn’t have to give up their privacy to get relevant advertising.” In response, many people don’t recognize the value of relevant ads; in fact most say they don’t want ads at all, even though more relevant ads means a better experience in general.

[8:20] Brad mentions how some platforms have a paid experience where you can get rid of ads. But again, the exchange is your privacy.

[10:52] Bob talks about the voice-activated world that we live in—there are devices listening to us at all times, even if we don’t own devices that have these features. For example, if Siri hears what they think is violence at home, there is permission for Apple to contact 911; this is a concerning precedent, even if it does serve to protect people.

[12:13] Bob continues, saying that often in America and perhaps other countries, we fight for a right to privacy. This goes to a deep level, to who we are as a species. Privacy is the way that we maintain intimacy in relationships, maintain creativity, and engage in our own self-awareness. The fight for continued and increased privacy is a matter of human rights and goes much deeper than just your online information.

[13:57] Brad shares about a client in Romania that he’s worked with for years and years—they’ve talked about the idea of privacy a lot. When 1 of 5 people you contact (in Romania) is a spy for the government, there is a cultural assumption that someone “out there” has all your information. So the idea of privacy rights is very different from America, where we are constantly afraid of who has our data, what “big brother” might be doing with it, etc.

[16:15] Ken agrees, saying that privacy is a basic human need. There is an aspect of violation that happens to people in jail because their privacy is taken away. Lack of privacy means lack of certainty, and lack of certainty means more anxiety and less freedom to live their lives. We’re already seeing this in our culture now (more anxiety and fear surrounding our freedoms and privacy). Over the last 10 years, we’ve slowly given our privacy away to private companies and the repercussions are already happening. We’re lucky here in America in that this change is happening inside of private companies instead of our government.

[18:53] Brad asks, if you’re going to have an ad, wouldn’t you rather see an ad that you’re interested in?

[19:05] Ken responds, saying that great ads can still be created if you don’t have specific targeting information about what someone ate for breakfast. Great ads were created before targeting, and they can continue after targeting; this will require more creative advertising and will take away the foolproof methods that many companies have found.

[19:48] Bob says that Amazon has trained us as marketers to believe that the more microtargeting we can get, the better conversions we can get. But there are businesses that are succeeding without that microtargeting. Great content that tells great stories will always be what makes people purchase.

[21:34] Brad clarifies that this depends on what it is that you’re marketing. If it’s a soft drink, there is a large portion of people who are likely to purchase it. But for things like medications for specific diseases or conditions, the marketing has to be different.

[25:37] Ken: “Right now, people aren’t aware of the value of their information—or even what they’re doing… it’s basically dishonesty inside of selling some of these products.” He says that there are so many ways for data to be collected from so many devices and products, and a lot of people don’t realize what it is that they’re giving away with these things. If you’re not in advertising or marketing, you’re not aware at all with how that works.

[29:29] Ken talks about Apple’s loss of Steve Jobs, and how that change was scary but ultimately at a certain point another person (Tim Cook) has to step in and help scale. When the founder or creator is able to hand the business over to a different skill set, the company has the opportunity to grow and scale on a different level. Facebook seems like it is still in that “founder” stage and hasn’t yet been handed over to someone else for scalability or a fresh set of eyes and skills on the business.

When a businesses’ structure isn’t solid and mature, pressure from the outside can create repercussions for its customers.

[32:25] Brad says that he is a bit surprised that Facebook hasn’t pivoted yet. The clock is ticking!

[33:53] Bob talks about the enormous pressure and surprise that Facebook’s team must have felt when they went from dorm room hackers to having a global audience and a social media site that is being used to influence the elections of the biggest countries in the world. THAT is a wild transition and it happened virtually overnight. This team that fell into this success is now carrying a moral weight on their shoulders—one that they probably didn’t want and maybe aren’t all that concerned with protecting.

[34:33] Ken says that a big part of what we’re talking about is the degradation of mental health. We have to ask ourselves, what’s the moral obligation to that?

[35:48] Bob is currently working on his master’s degree in behavioral and organizational psychology, and his thesis topic is media trauma. Privacy, anxiety, depression, suicide—these things are all connected.

[37:28] Bob continues, saying that the mental health of specifically young girls is being taught by the public based on likes and the dopamine hits that come with social media, instead of a close group of peers and trusted people that they get their identity and sense of self worth from.

[38:27] Ken says that he often thinks about the ads that he runs on Facebook for Metacake—sometimes there are mean comments, and it genuinely hurts. Even for someone who doesn't use social media personally, it hurts.

[40:40] Brad talks about how this is across our entire culture, that pain and comparison and hurt is happening to everyone on a personal level as well as a professional level.

[42:30] Bob talks about something called vicarious trauma or societal trauma that says that just by being around people who have been traumatized, it can also affect others. Ethically, it only makes sense not to guard against that, to rethink algorithms and privacy issues so that we have a better ethical way of engaging with those things.

He talks about how many people take what they portray online into their real lives, and the line between real life and internet life is blurred. Radicalization is easy to come by these days, regardless of where you fall politically. Everyone is susceptible in their own way.

[45:07] Ken recalls when people told us not to believe everything we read online. There was a time when you couldn’t use the internet to site resources in papers for school, yet now we have more technology to create stuff that may or may not be true, so everybody believes everything they read.

[49:42] Bob talks about Facebook Australia back in 2014 apologizing for using data about depressed, anxious kids to retarget them and give advertisers information about them. While this is scary and very sad, on the flip side there is opportunity to serve better, more positive and helpful content that could help mitigate some of the effects that we see.

[53:02] Brad talks about screen time, saying that even Steve Jobs put a limit on how much screen time your kids have. “You have to get to a point in your life where you have self-discipline towards screens.”

[56:32] Ken shares his experience with screen time and cutting down on technology. For some people, the addiction to screens is just as bad as an alcohol addiction, in that it takes over your life and eventually becomes a crutch. He recommends a book by Andy Crouch, The Tech-Wise Family: Everyday Steps for Putting Technology in Its Proper Place. Step one of releasing that addictive grip on technology is awareness, which is where we are as a society right now. And the second step is discipline—the discipline to actually replace that screen addiction/habit/routine with things that actually add to our lives.

The Tech-Wise Family: Everyday Steps for Putting Technology in Its Proper Place

View Details

Summary:

Jody Sutter is the owner and founder of The Sutter Company, a NYC-based consulting company that helps agency leaders tap into their strengths, clarify their strategy, and close more business. Through decades of experience in sales and operations for creative firms, Jody uniquely understands how to help agencies overcome their struggles with business development. In today’s episode, we dig into Jody’s philosophy on creating deep value in your agency’s offerings and honing your value proposition. Stay tuned!

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Repetition is the key to mastery. And mastery is the key to success at anything. Leverage what you already know and apply that knowledge to other clients. Agencies love to reinvent the wheel. DONT! Hone the wheel instead. Rather than sinking hours of research into a new client that you don’t know much about, collect information about what you’ve done for similar clients already. You can make intelligent assumptions about their business based on this experience, and create a tailored pitch that saves hours of prep time.
People connect with stories. Instead of thinking of yourself as a dispenser of information and expertise, think of yourself as a really great storyteller. What’s your story and how can you use that to connect with your audience?
You NEED a unique value proposition and one of the best ways to get to that is defining your elevator pitch. The 4 elements of a great elevator pitch: What is your identifier? What is your differentiator? What are some valuable client insights? What are your client motivators?

About Our Guest:

Jody Sutter: Jody Sutter is a business development coach with 25 years’ experience working with ad agencies and marketing firms. As the owner and founder of The Sutter Company, a consulting company based in New York City, Jody helps agency leaders get the attention of new prospects and win the right kind of business for their agencies. Before running business development teams at large agencies like R/GA, OMD, and Havas, Jody spent over a decade in sales for a range of creative services firms, from branding design to digital advertising.

Connect with Jody on LinkedIn and Twitter
Reach out for a 45-Minute Complimentary Consultation

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:37] Bob welcomes us to today’s episode and today’s guest Jody Sutter.

[2:12] Bob gives a brief summary of Jody’s business. Her website is thesuttercompany.com, and he describes what Jody’s business is all about. Before running business development teams at large agencies like R/GA, OMD, & Havas, Jody spent over a decade in sales for a range of firms, generating leads and building relationships that led to new revenue.

[2:41] Jody is calling from East Hampton, NY and works from home primarily.

[3:57] Bob asks Jody for a brief rundown in her agency experience.

[4:09] Jody says that she worked for production companies in NYC, working in sales and carting film reels around the city. Eventually she decided to get a job for a small internet marketing company called iVillage. Eventually that sales role developed into more consultative selling, and iVillage went from a negative revenue to over $12M in revenue.

In working for a larger organization called OMD (global media company), she learned the ins and outs of larger contracts and agreements instead of straight sales.

[7:35] Jody continues, saying that one of her goals was to be able to show agencies that what the client says isn’t always right. There is value in challenging what they think and what they’re trying to do, and she quotes her website: “controlling an agency’s business development destiny.”

Over time she realized that she offered the best value to companies who are smaller (5-55 people) with founders who are integrally involved, who know they need to take more responsibility for their business’s future but aren’t sure where to start.

[8:45] Jody says that she works primarily with founders who want to grow their businesses and customize their growth for their agency in particular.

[9:10] Ken asks about her philosophy behind consultative selling, and some practical things that people can do to improve their numbers.

[9:55] Jody says that most agencies are viewed as expert providers. It is refreshing for clients to have agencies who come in to projects with fresh eyes, new questions and ideas for meeting their goals. Sometimes this may catch the client’s off-guard and be overwhelming, so there is an art to this. Clients may be interested in an RFP instead of talking directly to the agency, and in this case a 15-minute conversation can often cover what would be in a 150-page RFP.

[11:47] Jody continues, saying that having these difficult conversations is a matter of challenging their assumptions, offering how you’ve applied your experience to similar problems, and seeing if it culminates in a moment of the client saying, “Yes I want to talk about this right now.”

[12:01] Ken says that over the years there has been a shift to free consultation—and economics isn’t the problem. But when you offer information at no cost, you’re setting up the relationship for expectations that you can’t meet.

[12:39] Brad says that often there can be a mindset of doing what the client asks no matter what, and asks Jody what that pushback may look like for her in the way she deals with clients.

[13:12] Jody says that the line between pushing back and pushing away can be very fine. Often agencies will sink in hours of research into a client before ever reaching out.

[14:40] Jody talks about narrowing down her vision for the clients that she wants to pitch: she gathers information about other similar clients and makes intelligent assumptions about what may or may not work. This assumption is backed up by the projects that she has already worked on and improved—this is a tailored pitch that does not require a ton of research upfront.

[15:45] Ken talks about something we mention often here on Agency Exposed, the need to be repeatable. There is deep value in taking your learnings, leveraging them and figuring out how to repeat them in other situations.

[16:29] Brad asks Jody about getting a new client in an industry that you haven’t worked in before. How can you prove to potential clients that you can help them even if you don’t have direct experience?

[17:06] Jody says that you should aim to become a great storyteller. Maybe the product has the same target audience, and you can incorporate your deep knowledge of that customer base and let the client know that you already understand their customers well.

She stresses that there is work in leading the client down the right path of thinking—you can’t just throw a study their way and assume they’ll read it cover to cover and know why you sent it.

[18:50] Jody talks about when your agency may be in the running against 50 other agencies in a giant RFP that is sent out; you know that you will likely not be the top choice, so it’s a great idea to leverage this situation in your favor even if you don’t get the client at the end.

[19:35] Ken asks Jody to dive into this more. He asks about strategies to strategically respond in a way that will market your agency for the future.

[19:55] Jody responds, saying to take 15 minutes with your leadership team to ask/answer questions like, “Why are we going after this? What is going to be most appealing about our capabilities? What does the client need? How do we marry these things together to get the message across to our client?”

[20:50] Jody adds another suggestion, saying it’s a bit bold but consider submitting a 3-page document where you tell the client that you know they most likely won’t pick you, but highlight the value props and ask for a time to connect after they’ve chosen someone for that particular RFP. You may not get that big project with them, but you are planting seeds for the future.

[21:20] Bob says that over the years, he’s experienced a lot working with various agencies. He talks about the growth model for many agencies, where they grow and grow but hit a ceiling at around $3-$4M in revenue.

[23:35] Jody says that it all rolls back to what you do, who you serve, and what difference you make for them. When you have clarity on this, the materials that you use to sell will become an integral part of your value proposition. This will help develop standards, and with those standards come the prospect of scalability.

[25:03] Brad refers back to a common discussion here at Agency Exposed: in business you can be the cheapest, the only or the best. He asks, “How do you become ‘the Only,’ where you have a silver bullet that no one else has?”

[26:31] Jody: “I think it comes down to a certain amount of confidence and courage to say that you’re going to make this commitment to this thing that you’re good at.” This also sends a signal to your team that it’s okay to do this, and then you can really begin to dig in and figure out what makes you different.

[27:39] Ken talks about how there is a theme of full-service offerings in agencies, and this is based on a scarcity mindset. If you let go of that scarcity mindset, you give yourself permission to truly specialize down and get specific—and then scale!

[29:03] Jody says that the pressure to perform definitely creates willingness for clients to hire agencies that are specialists. There is a gap that needs to be filled and agencies with that specialization are going to be worth taking a chance on.

[30:57] Ken talks about how Metacake decided to specialize in Ecommerce back in 2015, and when that happened their value proposition and scalability went through the roof.

“It aligned everything completely, you’re able to start creating better value propositions, you really understand why you exist and what your superpower is, you can communicate with people and you are laser-focused on your customers… it’s easier to close and you’re more effective.”

[31:57] Bob says that by zooming in on the client side you can get that laser-focus as well. The point is to find something to differentiate yourself and find something to specialize in that allows you to niche-down.

[33:00] Ken says that it is very difficult to create a value proposition if you haven’t specialized in some way.

[33:56] Jody talks about a 2-day workshop that she does with a new agency client. On the first day they work on an elevator pitch, which is less conceptual and has certain components. She breaks down those components throughout the day so that when the time for the elevator pitch comes, the information and basics are already laid out.

[37:06] Ken asks Jody what some of those elements might be.

[37:10] Jody responds: “What is your Identifier? What is your Differentiator? What are some valuable client insights?”

[39:02] Jody continues, saying these elements that make up your elevator pitch are truly the underpinnings of your value. “What you understand about those clients is why they come to you, because it’s going to reduce the risk of hiring an agency that doesn't know those clients, it’s going to mean that they have less ramp-up time to teach you what their industry is all about.”

The 4th key element of a good elevator pitch is what are your client motivators? These motivators should go beyond making money or building a business.

[41:15] Ken talks about the people behind the businesses—people with their own personal, psychological motivations that need to be fulfilled. And fulfilling these is truly the goal.

[42:13] Bob says that sales people often forget that they are selling psychological needs to other human beings; there is a need to be empathetic and vulnerable so that you can build human connection in an authentic way.

[44:00] Jody talks about techniques for outreach that develop that connection. Think of that person you’re calling as less of an almighty perfect client, but another human being and acquaintance instead of a complete stranger.

[46:00] Brad asks Jody about her predictions and perspective about what the industry will look like in the next five years.

[46:30] Jody says that the idea of an in-house agency will continue to be important. She predicts micro-specializations where agencies partner with other agencies and there is a sort of fragmentation.

[49:20] Bob asks Jody where listeners can learn more about her and connect.

[49:22] Jody responds: www.thesuttercompany.com “Start here” page for a 45-minute complimentary consultation.

You can also find her on LinkedIn with her blog, as well as Twitter.

View Details

Summary:

In this week’s episode, we discuss RFPs and how each of our agencies approach them. We talk about investigating whether an RFP is worth your time or not; we share our own experiences with assessing RFPs and guiding potential clients toward a better plan of action; we talk about speaking to clients’ needs in a way that inspires them; and we also share our framework for not just meeting RFP requirements, but creating a genuine connection and cultivating real relationships with potential clients.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Don’t naively participate - “The end result with any potential client, especially one with an RFP, is you want to build a relationship with them where you get outside the level of a commodity. You need to short circuit that somehow, and show that you’re different and make a unique connection.”
Stand out - We often say that in business, you can be the Cheapest, the Best, or the Only. This applies to RFPs as well! You don’t want to be the cheapest, as that’s a hard way to consistently win. So how do you become the Only? By truly showing why you are the BEST!
Consider the true upside - When deciding whether an RFP is right for your agency, consider the potential for long-term loyalty. Will this client be a long-term business partner, or are they just looking for a quick turnaround? The time needed upfront to investigate this is worth your while, every time.

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:32] Bob welcomes us to the show and introduces today’s topic: RFPs or requests for proposal.

[3:37] Ken says that Metacake gets around 10 a year, and that it’s not something they rely on to get business.

[3:56] Brad’s agency gets roughly 70% of new business without RFPs, and the clients that do bring them are typically larger companies.

[4:52] Bob defines RFP for us and gives a brief history. “In the late 1880s, industrialism standardized the productions of goods and accelerated communication between businesses… made it possible for businesses to solicit from vendors… included questions to help the buyer evaluate and compare each supplier’s offering.”

[7:10] Bob continues. RFPs can be 50 or 100 pages long, and contain a breakdown of every step of every part of your process. There can be questions about examples of work done in the past, referrals, and typically they want it written in a specific format. Long story short: they’re term papers!

[8:00] Brad says that RFPs usually boil down to figuring out how an agency thinks.

[8:57] Brad talks about how the need for RFPs has changed over time, and often companies want a more straightforward financial estimate than anything else—a more generalized document than the 100-page assignments of the past. The time wasted for marketing managers to write these massive documents is a waste of time and manpower in itself.

[10:09] Ken talks about the “apples to apples” comparison of RFPs, saying that there really is no way to compare one company or agency against the next. This makes the review of RFPs more about discernment—and most of them are just written wrong, in his opinion.

[12:18] Brad talks about the RFPs that attempt to plan out a two-year contract with an agency. In reality, you want to be able to pivot when you enter into an agreement with someone. And so for many agencies, RFPs are a risk to take on.

[13:49] Bob says that some companies and agencies have divisions that do nothing but respond to RFPs.

[14:37] Brad says that if an agency’s clients are mostly Fortune 500 companies, they are more likely doing a lot more RFPs.

[15:02] Bob asks Brad and Ken about tactics they use that can either minimize the process or ensure that they have a greater chance over some competitors that are out there.

[15:20] Ken says that Metacake doesn’t consider RFPs an efficient use of their time. Often due to the quality of the document, it is clear that more communication is going to be needed other than the RFP.

[18:14] Brad talks about two types of RFPs—the ones that he values and the ones that he doesn’t. Often the ones that aren’t super valuable have a lot of get-to-know-you questions, whereas the valuable ones have data and information about the project, technical requirements that give real insight into the cost of the project.

[19:39] Ken counters that even when they are specific, because you have already decided on the method before you’ve decided on the strategy, there is a built-in challenge in communication.

“The end result with any potential client, especially one with an RFP, is you want to build a relationship with them where you get outside the level of a commodity, you need to short circuit that somehow and show that you’re different and make a unique connection.”

[20:18] Ken continues, saying that if you don’t have a unique backdoor channel or even an inkling that the RFP is merely a formality, you are likely on a fool’s errand. Because otherwise you’ve caught yourself in a comparison game against 10 others that they are rationalizing to choose the one that they want.

[21:38] Brad says that there is a good way gauge whether the RFP is worth your time or not to review: are their questions written in a way that you can actually respect those questions and understand that you as a client are going to let us do what we do?

[23:05] Ken says that going about these conversations can be challenging to do while also building rapport and not coming off as sleazy. But by maintaining you professionalism and being really confident at what you do, you can usually figure out whether something is a good fit relatively quickly.

[24:12] Bob suggests a personal Zoom call or in-person meeting, where you can discuss additional concerns that the RFP didn’t address. If you really do want to work with the company, genuinely reaching out to make that connection can go far.

[27:01] Ken says that Metacake stopped doing RFPs. “We'll work with anyone that wants to work with this, as long as they're the right fit, and we're the right fit, and we can add value… we’ll build a proposal, but we won’t build it through an RFP method.”

[27:54] Ken explains further that they bill for a meeting where the basics of an RFP are laid out, they work on strategy in-person and build that RFP out for them that they can then take to other agencies. This gives Metacake the opportunity to build relationships, learn more about the company, build that trust and understanding and then make it obvious that working to put the RFP to use with Metacake is the best option.

[31:05] Brad asks Ken about his experience with RFPs and what specific details he’s looking for that would make him feel comfortable about the RFPs requirements.

[32:14] Ken responds. “So that's why we say we don't work through the RFP method, we'll get the RFP, we'll validate it, we'll build you a project plan. But typically, we get paid to do that.”

[36:04] Bob says that in the past he’s gotten emails from people who’ve sent RFPs but in reality they have already decided to use his services.

[39:06] Bob talks about an RFP from a non-profit that was received by his agency recently. They spoke to the company and found out that they were genuinely interested in an agency but had no idea where to start. Their search was genuine and unbiased, so after chatting, Bob decided it was worth his time to create a short-form RFP for them and do some great digging for them to fill that need.

[40:20] Brad says that he has come across great RFPs with genuine responses and questions.

[42:39] Brad continues, saying that it’s okay to bail out of the RFPs response after a bit of back and forth. You want to be able to best serve their clients in the best way possible, and if you can’t gauge that after meeting in person and discussing details, it’s okay to back off and say that it won’t be a great fit.

[43:47] Ken ties in the theme of “you can be the cheapest, the best, or the only” to RFPs as well. You don’t want to be the cheapest, as it’s hard to win that way. How do you become the only one, truly because you are the best?

The challenge is eliminating everyone else, short circuiting the search and making them realize you have what they need.

[45:19] Bob says that it can be difficult to convince someone that you are really the only option they have to get what they’re looking for. You can say, “Well we don’t do that, but we can give you something better and here’s the price you’d pay.” He clarifies Ken’s tactic: to prove that you’re better than the RFP in what you can provide without criticizing their method.

[47:33] Ken says that what is lacking in most RFPs is the goal—a clear, uniform goal for what is actually going to be done in a project.

[48:14] Brad says that he sees 15-20% of clients who use an RFP to work with an agency who will realize a couple months into the project that they didn’t choose the right agency.

[49:20] Ken says that from a client perspective, if you can pay an agency to help you come up with a plan, go for it. Because THEY are the ones who are experts, and if you pay good people, you’ll get good work!

[53:30] Ken continues, saying that for many service providers, RFPs can be a fool’s errand. Meaning that choosing a partner based purely on RFPs will rob you of a lot of authenticity and real connection with a service provider or client that is RIGHT.

[54:29] Bob talks about the cost effectiveness of having a long-term client versus constantly having an influx of new clients.

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Summary:

In this week’s episode, we’re diving into what it looks like to coach new clients through differentiating themselves. We explain our philosophies on creating a brand that’s unique enough to sell. We discuss questions such as: As agencies, how can we help our clients clarify their brand? If a client doesn’t know their “why,” what’s the next step? How can you help clients clarify their true purpose for their business? How can you guide potential clients through the brand building process while also establishing a valuable partnership? And how can you do all this for yourself as a business?

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

There are certain things that ONLY the client can do—this includes digging into their “why” and defining their brand. As an agency, you can guide them through this process but only THEY can find the answers. However, it’s your job to guide them through this process.
From a tactical perspective, there are four main questions to ask to help a client unpack their brand: What’s right? What’s wrong? What’s missing? What’s confused?
You need to differentiate your business. Agencies suffer from not having a true brand, not being clear on their why, and looking the same as everyone else. Do the hard work to apply what you do for your clients to your own business.

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[4:20] Bob asks “What do you do when a client comes to you asking for help developing their brand—without any data to help you accomplish this.”

[5:05] Brad says that some clients know their brand and some don’t. Newer brands may recognize that they have a great product, but rushing to get that product sold can undercut the value there. There is a deep push to compete with existing brands and industry giants, but there is also a deep need to define your brand before competing.

[6:38] Brad recalls a phrase from an earlier episode—as a business, you’re either the Cheapest, the Best, or the Only. And he’s found that most of his clients aren’t the Only.

[7:24] Brad asks how The Guys identify the best strategy for a client like this.

[9:30] Ken talks about how companies used to be able to make it without a unique selling proposition- but competition creates change in every industry so quickly these days and you HAVE to take the time to develop that selling proposition.

[10:30] Bob talks about how in the beginning of Covid, there were many companies who dug into their “why” and were able to change their selling proposition to suit customer’s needs more closely.

[11:30] Brad circles back around to guiding clients without this defined purpose and selling proposition. He says that most companies’ “why” is interwoven into their culture, and very much has to be a top-down concept.

If you exist just to make money—dig deeper! There is more to your “why” than just cash flow.

[15:01] Bob talks about breaking down a client’s story into a hero-arc. Who’s the hero, who’s the protagonist, what is the problem you’re trying to solve? It pays to break down your brand’s story in this way!

[16:05] Brad shares about a 3-day workshop that he hosts to help businesses define their brand. Usually there is a moment where he realizes that a team doesn't have the same “why” individually. But that is so vital! Get everyone on the same page and make sure that your client knows the value in this process.

[17:50] Ken talks about how clients often ask agencies to do things that only the client can do. Only the client can define their brand, only the client can dig into the reason they exist and figure out what drives them. Agencies cannot define this for you!

[19:40] Ken shares a questionnaire that Metacake gives prospective clients. It’s a brand readiness worksheet that helps identify where a brand truly is at any given moment. It helps to dig into their story, unique selling points, why they exist, and ultimately provides deep clarity for the entire team.

“Your purpose can be unique even if your product is the same.”

[24:19] Brad and his team dig deep into the pain points of customers. For example, you may think you sell skincare but in reality you’re helping a client fill different emotional needs that they have.

[24:45] Ken talks about how many clients get overwhelmed by this deeper meaning behind their business—it can feel silly and even embarrassing. Your job as an agency owner is to build a business case for this work.

[27:31] Bob talks about the psychology change in selling to one channel versus a thousand channels. When people have a ton of options, digging deeper becomes more and more vital to selling your product.

[28:55] Brad talks about brand equity and clients who want to build their brand equity. But this takes time and money!

[29:29] Bob defines brand equity in 2021. Brand equity means your brand has been embedded into the culture of society, giving examples of brands like Coke and Kleenex.

[30:56] Bob moves on to how to work with clients once they agree that they want to dig deep and do that work.

[31:30] Brad shares a story about a client that they worked with; this client didn’t have any unique selling propositions but were committed to digging in and figuring out their brand. Eventually they launched a sale, and the product didn’t do well. The client came back and said that they really didn’t have a leg to stand on when it came to comparison against other products. Brad could see the writing on the wall at the beginning of the project but still gave it his best, and it didn't work.

[37:20] Ken talks about a client that Metacake works with called Groove Life. They sell silicone rings with an incredible brand proposition and story. They have a large number of competitors, and their rings really aren’t THAT much of a different quality than others that you can find on Amazon. But what makes them different is the brand story.

[37:39] Brad “Your brand is a promise, and if you want to create that promise you better make sure that when they get the product, that promise is realized.”

[38:04] Ken says the best promise wins the sale, not necessarily the best product.

[40:28] Bob talks about how Elon Musk has an incredible ability to normalize those unique selling propositions. It’s not only about the product; it’s also about the human experience.

[42:45] Bob says that there are 4 questions they ask at Five by Five agency when helping a client to unpack their brand. As these questions are discussed, the client will identify the nuances of what makes them different from everyone else.

What’s right about what you’ve done?
What’s wrong?
What’s missing?
What’s confused?

[44:23] Brad talks about asking the right questions of his clients and allowing their frustrations out. The answers have to be gleaned from their discussions, and as you get to know them and their pain points, clarity is the inevitable result.

[46:40] Brad suggests an interactive meeting when you first meet a client, where you can engage them in the process of identifying these parts of their brand.

[48:00] Bob says that after you’ve met with clients and gone through the process of bringing out that information (identifying their brand messaging and unique selling points), it’s fairly straightforward for your agency team to go into those notes and see with relative clarity who that brand is and what makes them unique from their competitors. When you then bring that information back to your clients, they are in awe of how well you know them, and the relationship becomes one based on trust and deep respect. You become part of their tribe instead of just an agency that’s working with them.

[52:41] Ken talks about those business owners who say they’re only in business to make money. And while many may say this, most of those businesses are actually running on something much deeper—they just need help identifying it.

View Details

Summary:

This week’s episode explores the mindset behind innovation. Innovation can be hard because it’s a long term investment, it’s risky, and it takes dedicated time. It’s really ANOTHER job, but without it, you’re soon dead. We discuss how we maintain motivation to learn and grow, as well as the steps we take toward innovation regardless of circumstances. As agency owners, our mindset is our most critical tool for moving through uncertainty with confidence. If you want to empower your teams and clients to learn, grow, and stay ahead of the times, it all starts with your own mindset.

A few questions to consider:

How do you sell innovation to a client?
What opportunities for innovation are there in your industry?
How do you create motivation for yourself that drives innovation and a future-oriented mindset?

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Know yourself - The motivating factors are different for everyone, and part of developing a healthy innovation mindset is learning what drives you. Some people might be driven by data, while others are driven by emotions or competition. If you can identify what motivates, you’re one step closer to a true spirit of innovation.
Pursuing innovation with clients can be a tricky tightrope to walk. Remember that agency services have 2 parts: the commodity and the innovation. Clients often come asking for a commodity, and it is your role to sell them on innovation.
Create your identity - Define your identity in terms of values rather than opinions. In Think Again, Adam Grant says, “It’s easier to avoid getting stuck in past beliefs if you don’t become attached to them as part of your present self-concept. See yourself as someone who values curiosity, learning, mental flexibility, and searching for knowledge.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

Resources Mentioned:

Think Again: The Power of Knowing What You Don’t Know by Adam Grant

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:35] Bob welcomes us to this episode and The Guys catch up after a week of snow, ice, and sleet in Nashville. Brad and Ken grew up in this stuff… they’re not phased.

[3:21] Bob introduces today’s topic- Innovation. We’ve talked a lot about being future-oriented as an agency, and we all know that staying ahead of the curve in this industry is a constant challenge.

[4:43] Bob asks: How do we, as agency owners, maintain the correct type of thinking that keeps us sharp, ahead of the curve, and productive.

[5:11] Ken adds that the uncertainty factor is a season that we’re passing through- it can be difficult to remember that! But how do you operate inside of that uncertainty with confidence? The answer: your Mindset. The strategies for maintaining a confident mindset regardless of circumstance are endless, but The Guys will take a shot at providing some examples.

[7:48] Brad talks about finding excitement to improve the inner workings of his business- it doesn’t come naturally for him. But what he does find exciting is potential technology that will change his business and the business of his client just a couple of years down the road. Working with clients who truly get excited about those opportunities is also very motivating.

[10:01] Bob says that as a business owner, it is imperative that we work on ourselves. Without self-awareness, none of the strategies we talk about work. This means being able to admit where your weaknesses are, what you don’t understand and where you may be wrong.

[11:00] Ken says this process is simply covering your downsides. In any team, there are different roles that cover what others aren’t good at. As a business owner, you really have to operate within two different businesses- the business now, and the business that you want to have 10 years from now.

[13:28] Brad talks about how different things motivate different people. He says that he is motivated more by knowledge and information than motivational speaking or pure enthusiasm. Having the self-awareness to know where your motivation comes from is part of this!

[15:55] Bob talks about a common experience that people have- realizing that your motivation doesn’t come from the same sources as others. It’s easy to go with the crowd and assume that you get motivation from the same things.

[18:58] Ken asks Brad about the content that he consumes and how it motivates him.

[19:15] Brad says that watching financial news is the best way for him to understand different industries from a broad perspective. Ultimately, clients come to you to make money! So having a good understanding of the financial news within their industry is a great start. In addition, it pays to stay abreast of technology and the changes that are around the bend.

[21:17] Bob adds that knowing your personality type and how you best work within existing structures can be very helpful. For example, Brad is a 5 on the Enneagram- The Investigator. And his personality type matches up exactly with the way he does business. Yet again- self awareness pays off!

[22:50] Ken highlights that the intentionality behind these concepts is the key. When you are self-aware of what drives you and what you’re good at versus what you’re not good at, you can push your intentions towards what you know is your strong point.

[25:00] Ken talks about how a lack of self-awareness can lead to you becoming a crutch for your team members- often when you step back and allow them to do their job, it leaves you in a place where you can focus on your strengths as the business owner.

[26:17] Brad shares an interview with Elon Musk where he said that people at Tesla don’t get fired for failing, but for not innovating. He is working towards a company and a workforce that accepts failure as part of the process, and you’ll only get fired if someone sees that you’re not innovating or pushing yourself beyond what you think is possible. Developing a culture of failure is enormously challenging.

[28:21] Ken mentions the difficulty of empowering your team to innovate and potentially fail when you’re serving clients. Failure in these scenarios can look like you’re just not doing your job. He asks The Guys how they apply this culture of failure to their own businesses.

[29:10] Bob says that working with clients to teach them what to expect- it should be built into your brand and the way that your agency works. Most clients come to agencies so that they can AVOID failing, so that they can have a guarantee of success. It’s important to be self-aware enough to know when you’re getting into that situation with a client.

[31:05] Brad talks about working with clients and explaining along the way that some parts of their plan may be risky. Helping them to understand why the risk is worth it and really laying out the financial piece is incredibly important.

It is often easier to take the risk on yourself- show them how something worked for you first so that if you fail it’s not as detrimental.

[32:36] Bob tells us a story.

In the 1980’s Soviet submarine grounded itself on Swedish shores- Swedish army knew that Soviets were up to no good during this time and so they weren’t entirely surprised. The Soviets apologized, said that their new technology had led them astray and eventually they were able to peacefully depart. But that left a lot of people wondering; Weren't the Swedes aware of sonar in the water? How did this happen? There was a recording of the submarine that was kept under wraps for decades, and it sounds nothing like a normal submarine. Scientists were able to study this unusual sound eventually, and they found that the sounds that they thought were Russian submarines were actually large schools of red herring fish.
The message here is that because that “secret sound” of what they thought was a Russian sub was never shared, never listened to by anyone else and never challenged, the Truth was elusive. And that is why they were ill-prepared when one of these subs washed up on their shores.

[37:26] Bob “Best practices are not always the best practices.” Be willing to challenge best practices!

[38:41] Ken talks about the difficulty of challenging beliefs and staying relevant.

[38:54] Brad “Most people need a strong process… they want to know that they’re doing a good job and that they’re doing it right.” But it can be hugely challenging to teach that culture to also take risks and think outside of the box. Look at ways that you can innovate your processes to make them better!

[40:13] Ken says it is critical to have a peer group where you can talk about these concepts. The agency world is changing a bit in this regard, and this is great! It’s such a refreshing experience to take part in these groups and learn things from others who are in alignment with your philosophies.

[42:53] Brad: There are two things we sell in our industry- a commodity and innovation. Innovation is the harder sell- it’s easier to sell a commodity because the client is asking for it. Selling innovation means selling the possibility of failure and the unknown.

[45:02] Bob speaks on the importance of creating a culture internally that supports this innovation and experimentation. The great inventions of humanity that solve daily problems have come from the trenches, from the people. Supporting your team and empowering them to evolve through processes is part of your role, and helps to create a culture of innovation.

[48:21] Ken speaks on innovation and the breakthroughs that come from a deep sense of need.

Some of the most challenging times are the times that have taught us to identify problems and come up with innovative solutions. It’s a matter of truly digging into that need instead of panicking about it.

[52:24] Bob recommends Adam Grant’s book Think Again, noting that he has some good takeaways from it:

“Think like a scientist- when forming a new opinion, resist the temptation to peach, persecute, or politic. Treat your emerging view as a hypothesis and test it with data.”
“Define your identity in terms of values not opinions- it’s easier to avoid getting stuck in past beliefs if you don’t become attached to them as part of your present self-concept. See yourself as someone who values curiosity, learning, mental flexibility, and searching for knowledge as you form opinions.”
“Seek out information that goes against your views. You can fight confirmation bias, burst filter bubbles, and escape echo chambers by actively engaging with ideas that challenge your assumptions.”
“Be aware of getting stranded at the summit of Mt. Stupid- don’t confuse confidence with competence.”
“Harness the benefits of doubt- when you find yourself doubting your ability, reframe the situation as an opportunity for growth. You can have confidence in your capacity to learn while questioning your current solution to a problem. Knowing that you don’t know is often the first step toward developing expertise.”
“Embrace the joy of being wrong- when you find you you’ve made a mistake, take it as a sign that you’ve just discovered something new. Don’t be afraid to laugh at yourself, it helps you focus less on proving yourself and more on improving yourself.”

[55:30] Ken “That ability to be confidently humble and not arrogant is one of the most critical factors in being able to do innovation and move forward confidently.”

Think Again: The Power of Knowing What You Don't Know

View Details

Summary:

We’re back this week with part two of our discussion on “The Platforms vs. The People.” As agency owners, what changes should we make to protect our clients and ourselves from the whims of mega platforms? The key to becoming unstoppable may lie in having a healthy approach to creativity and innovation. Using platforms in your business isn’t bad, it’s GREAT, but you must be aware of your vulnerabilities. Sadly, most businesses have no idea how vulnerable they are. We talk often about the importance of diversification, but today we’re diving deep into the mindset behind change—including what it may mean if you’re resistant to change, and what a healthy experimental mindset could look like for your agency. We’ll tackle questions such as:

Is it possible to break your addiction to ROI during times of disruption?
How can you make decisions on a small scale that will play out as innovation on a large scale?
What on earth can you do when Facebook (or someone else) turns off your account? (Hint: Not much, unfortunately.)

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

When it comes to your business, think like a scientist. When we stop thinking like scientists, we lose our willingness to experiment and innovate, and it becomes much more difficult to admit when we are wrong, move towards growth, and do what’s best for our customers.
Be aware. It’s important to remember that platforms (as other businesses) answer to their shareholders, not necessarily their users. Their interests and your interests aren’t necessarily aligned. Does this mean you shouldn’t use them? Of course not! But you must be aware of your dependence on them, and take appropriate action to ensure your stability if there’s a disruption.
Technology changes—and fast. Instead of getting hung up on the platforms and the technology, keep your focus on what will resonate with people 50 years from now.

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

Resources Mentioned:

Think Again: The Power of Knowing What You Don’t Know by Adam Grant

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:35] The Guys introduce today’s episode, welcoming Ken back from a trip to New York!

[3:26] Brad reviews last week’s episode, talking about the continual changes surrounding platform shifts. His company experienced having one of their client’s Facebook ad accounts shut down, saying that ultimately Facebook admitted it was an accident. They have no real recourse.

[4:49] Ken says that he sees connection between cryptocurrency awareness increasing and platforms being questioned and challenged.

He refers to SaaS (software as a service) companies that embody this concept. With many of these companies, you can charge monthly for hugely expensive services, but everyone will be the same and have the same options.
Companies have become million-dollar businesses from using one platform (such as Facebook) alone, and all they have to do is simply turn on a feature and accept terms and conditions. In instances like this, it is very easy to lose sight of how little control you have.

[8:25] Ken shares his fears with businesses that he sees. If big platforms like Shopify and Facebook ban you for one reason or another, you really don’t stand a chance.

[9:27] Brad talks about his fears with so many parts of his business that are reliant on the Big Three: Amazon, Facebook, and Google. When we sign terms of service with these corporations and websites, we are allowing them to have the power over many parts of our lives.

[10:55] Brad talks about the biggest challenge he sees: these platforms only have the power that they have because people are using it. If they get into a position where people begin to fall off, these large corporations begin to do pretty wild things to keep their shareholders happy.

[12:32] Bob says that many agencies are ahead of the curve as far as technology, but as those same services become commoditized, the value of an agency’s services decrease. Then what follows is people looking for other options.

[15:43] Ken adds that this cycle is what is currently happening—a principle of cyclical nature that makes itself evident everywhere in life. The pattern of developing new technology then purging to make room for advances is part of that cycle.

[17:33] Ken says that cryptocurrency for investment is yet another example of diversification

[18:15] Brad says that he's seen the industry go through phases. Today, we are technologists. Most of the work that we’re doing is IT, learning technical systems to get the best result. Having that technical background is incredibly valuable now, but he predicts that eventually AI will take over.

[20:48] Brad asks: “How can we prepare for this?” He suggests going to clients and ensuring you have a seat at the table. To do this, make sure you’re doing more than technical commodity work and that you’re helping lead strategy.

[22:26] Bob talks about his love/hate relationship with technology and clients. He always advises his clients to not become hung up on technology, because it comes and goes. Instead, he says that we should focus on human stories, human connection, and human ideas.

[25:51] Ken says that one of his biggest business strategies is to not attach yourself to a technology or platform that will come and go.

[27:41] Ken talks about the challenge of major platforms that can shut you down. Those platforms have gotten into their position because the platforms have the most users as well as the most convenience to offer. There is less perceived competition in comparison.

[28:58] Ken predicts that businesses will be forced to become more self-reliant and be more aware of what could go wrong.

[30:50] Bob talks about how a lot of clients are hiring them for vision and understanding of where the industry is going.

[32:20] Ken says that although these platforms can be great and hugely helpful, there is a tipping point between what is best for their customers and what is best for their shareholders. It’s inevitable, and so it’s a great idea to have a backup plan and/or a fallback. For example, if you rely on Shopify, consider hosting your own site instead.

[35:05] Brad talks about how the power to challenge these businesses is truly available to the people—Reddit and Robinhood are a further example of this relationship.

There is a trend towards decentralization, starting with financial institutions. There is a sense of distrust toward these big established platforms and a push towards decentralizing their power.

[37:35] Bob says that the challenge for him is learning how to think, and then applying those strategies so that you don’t succumb to the power of the platforms. He suggests a book called Think Again: The Power of Knowing What You Don’t Know by Adam Grant. He’s an organizational psychologist who helps businesses figure out how to think about their brand and long-term goals.

His theory is a four-fold approach. We either think like a preacher, a politician, a prosecutor, or a scientist. The premise is that business leaders need to think more like a scientist than anything else—experiments are required in order to be successful, and you constantly reserve the right to be wrong.

[41:41] Bob says that when we stop thinking like scientists as business owners, we lose the willingness to experiment, to admit being wrong, and we will find it more difficult to move towards growth and do what’s best for our customers.

[42:26] Ken wonders what the switch is that moves business owners from that role of scientist more towards a preacher. What makes them begin to believe that they have everything figured out? Often it’s simply success. When you become successful, it’s easy to stop innovating and say you have things figured out.

[43:52] Brad asks Bob and Ken if their clients understand that some experimentation with failure is part of the process of finding success. Are they open to this?

[45:00] Ken says that there is a lot of resistance to that mindset, and a lot of things can play into that resistance. It can be hard to rationalize experimentation within an organization that is larger or older, and there is an addiction to immediate ROI that needs to be broken. It’s pretty rare that a client comes forward and says that they want to experiment and be intentional about it.

[47:45] Bob says that we could be seeing a renaissance of agency creativity and agency values. He also suggests a couple of methods for playing against that resistance that many clients will have against experimentation.

Ask your clients “If this main platform goes away, how can we duplicate the same result through other methods? How can we get this same result through a different strategy or channel/platform?”
When you find something good that you believe to be true, how is it also not true? For example, you may think that Tesla makes the best electric car. But then assume you believe the opposite, and look for ways that Tesla is NOT the best electric car in the industry. What are some ways that other companies have made this product better?

[51:01] Ken reflects on Bob’s advice. He says that in real life, you have things like fire drills where you go through the worst case scenario and decide what your plan of action will be. In business, people aren't doing that as much.

If your life or business relies on something, it’s only logical to think through those scenarios. Your business is WORTH asking yourself these questions.
The more prepared you are, the less anxiety-inducing change can be!

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Summary:

Never has there been more awareness of the power that platforms hold within our society - including our business society. Think about all of the platforms you and your clients critically rely on to do business. It can be downright scary, especially if you haven’t considered the path you would take if one of those critical platforms shut you down. But there is a way to win. If 2020 has taught us anything, it’s that it’s time to expect the unexpected. Today we talk about breaking your addiction to immediate ROAS, educating your clients on the importance of not relying on a single platform, and developing the skills that will allow you to act when new opportunities present themselves.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Diversify—and if you’re not in a position to do so, at least be aware of where your vulnerabilities are as a business. We talk a lot on Agency Exposed about the power of pivoting and diversification, but immediate change isn’t possible for every business. Consider other ways you can protect your business from its weaknesses.
1. Truly embracing diversification involves breaking your addiction to immediate ROAS. Change takes time and risk—calculated risk, yes, but risk nonetheless.
Educate your Clients about the reliance on platforms and be honest about how potential disruptions may impact their bottom line. As your client, they are relying on you to be informed of platform changes and provide guidance on what is best for them and their customers.
Be Ready to Act—Opportunity is created in winter. Right now, we’re in a “winter”. Being ready for the right opportunity is a big part of business. Remember that taking advantage of opportunities and presenting a solution at the right time doesn’t mean that you’re capitalizing on the misfortunes of others.

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000-2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:33] Bob opens the show, another Zoom call for The Guys today. Brad is in California moving his daughter into college!

[2:00] Bob talks about the big announcements this week that were made- between GameStop news and Amazon announcing leadership changes, there is a lot going on!

[2:51] Bob asks Brad about his thoughts regarding these changes.

[3:11] Brad talks about how investment strategies have changed with the coming-of-age of Millennials. A group of investors from Reddit decided to raise stock on hedge fund managers who have been shorting their bets for years. The idea is they are taking back control of the market from those who have played games for so long. Ultimately, the guys from Reddit flipped Wall Street on it’s head.

[5:23] Ken talks about how this is a kind of rebalancing of power, and that’s a good thing! In recent years, the powers-that-be have been out of balance, but the events of this week have proven that the people can have an impact on rebalancing that power.

[7:41] Brad talks about Facebook changes and drives home what we’ve been talking about on Agency Exposed for a few weeks- diversification. We don’t own Facebook, or any of the content that it produces. Facebook disappearing or losing power (seemingly) is very possible, so diversification is KEY.

[9:12] Bob speaks on the changes that he’s seen over the years, and says that typically that change is for the best and winds up being great. But there are definitely negative impacts on individuals during these times of disruption.

[10:30] Bob talks about Robinhood, the platform that helped with trading micro-stocks and has caused some chaos in the market over the last week or so. They have shut down now, and it begs a question- how are these things impacting the individuals behind the companies? And who are these people who have decided to use a platform to trade SO MUCH of their money?

[13:40] Ken reflects on the shift in mentality in the marketing industry over the last few years, saying that cycles show themselves eventually but there is always that up and down disruption with the technology. There is so much that’s out of your control, so a lot of what has to happen is finding peace with the chaos and the things that you can’t control.

[16:36] Ken shares a big tip for this chaotic atmosphere- diversification. Be aware of where you need to diversify so that if/when the unexpected happens you have many directions to pivot and shift. Be aware of your vulnerability.

[19:00] Ken continues, saying that platforms like Facebook have gotten to the point that they feel beyond touch, impossible to topple. The “too big to fail” scenario applies here- and the disruption feels like a good thing to him.

21:22 If Facebook struggles a bit and FEELS it, they tend to have to turn and refocus on serving their customers well.

[22:04] Bob talks about the growing pains of the internet and the way that we are changing and shifting to better serve ourselves. Because everyone has access to the same knowledge via the internet, we the people have access to changing businesses and the business landscape in a much more effective way.

[24:24] Bob shares that new technology is driving out old corporations. With more access to information than ever, the people have the power to change the infrastructure of corporations.

[26:21] Ken talks about his consumer/marketer brains and how they react to the changes going on right now. His consumer mind has long been uncomfortable with how brands are listening to their consumers and how that will impact his children over time. There does need to be competitive reform of these platforms.

From an advertising perspective, he believes that this disruption will mean that the advertising world is better. There have already been cycles of this happening, and now we’re coming back around to another shift.

[30:13] Ken reflects on how big data has made marketing more strategic, and rewards people who can understand the algorithm and hone those skills. He talks about the privacy issues that concern MANY of us with this information.

[32:28] Bob reflects on privacy issues and the philosophy behind brands that he trusts, like Apple. His trust in Apple’s security expertise drives his brand loyalty, and the same is true for other brands as well. What we’re seeing with big shifts in big data and information security is a clash of philosophies in technology. Apple is owning and tightening up security on their platform, focusing on privacy for their customers vs Facebook and Google who want to democratize their platforms.

[34:20] Ken says that Apple is one of the only companies that doesn’t monetize data from their users, while companies like FB and Google make millions of dollars from their users, so really it is a clash of businesses as well as philosophies.

[37:13] Brad predicts that block-chain technology will be integrated into platforms next, and that will change the industry. He talks about a new cash app called Humble that will have a currency and run on blockchain, AND it will be international. This is truly groundbreaking in regards to people being in power.

[39:37] Brad asks Bob and Ken about how they communicate with their clients when there are changes to a platform that are out of their control.

[39:52] Bob says that a lot of clients don’t even know about those changes. He puts a lot of effort into educating them about how Facebook works (for example) and little details about what to update when a new iOS comes out.

There are also platforms that work well, and he works to show his clients how they can be used.

[41:32] Ken says that this will affect agencies of all types- not just marketing or advertising agencies. Other parts of the website are going to be adjusted and changed to accommodate for new rules, such as branding and site design.

[42:06] Ken talks about how ROAS on Facebook ads has been declining for a few years now, so there has been fair warning and reason to diversify.

Diversifying platforms means breaking our addiction to immediate ROAS—this has been the most difficult thing for people to grasp and move forward with.

[45:05] Ken talks about the emphasis that is put on owned data, and says that there is strength in developing a deeper knowledge of the way that you connect the dots between data points across channels.

[47:00] Bob talks about other social platforms that have come about since quarantine became a thing. He mentions that Parler came and went, as well as Clubhouse, which is akin to a sophisticated Discord. He predicts more segmentation of social platforms as the technology catches up with the everyday person.

[48:17] Ken talks about how a few years ago he never thought that anything would come along to truly challenge Facebook, and says that a big part of business is waiting as well as being ready. Often taking advantage of opportunities in a positive way is about waiting and being ready as well—when the opportunity arises, you’re able to present a solution.

View Details

Summary:

In today’s episode we have a special guest- CPA/entrepreneur/real estate investor/genius, Founder and Executive Officer of Integrated Financial Group, Chris Picciurro. Chris shares with us 3 main principles that will help you take control of your business finances. We ask Chris some financial questions specific to service businesses, and try to get just a bit better at managing our finances in intelligent ways. We talk financial stability, money optimization, and taxes (cringe!). This episode is meant for grownups who want to win at business.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Think of the government as your Business Partner. Maybe you threw up a little in your mouth just now, but if you can get past the phrasing, there’s benefit. Involuntary business partner? Yes. But this isn’t inherently a bad thing! You have more control than you realize. You get to write the “operating agreement”- you get to decide how to organize your business and manage your affairs. Get to know your “business partner” well.
Your Facts equal your Tax. Everyone wants to optimize their tax position - the only way to do that is by changing the facts you abide by. This means, YOU MUST, be proactive. Tax planning should be happening all the time. If you can do this, you will be able to optimize your position (which should mean more $$ for you). If you want to change your tax situation, you have to change your fact pattern.
Understand the difference between Cash Flow and Tax Flow. Cash flow is pretty simple, cash comes in and cash goes out. But tax flow is based on determining whether something is a tax deduction or taxable income. Understanding “tax flow” means you will be optimizing all year long. Our advice - find YOUR trusted financial professional.

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About our Guest:

Chris Picciurro is a 20-year accounting veteran and founder and Executive Officer of Integrated Financial Group. With multiple offices out of Michigan, Florida, and South Carolina, Chris calls Franklin, TN his home base.
- Explore IFG’s website, where they provide financial services to small and mid-sized businesses: https://www.integratedfg.com/
- Explore ICPA’s website, where they help clients maintain financial stability in the present while taking a proactive approach to achieve future goals: https://integratedcpa.integratedfg.com/
Connect with Chris on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/picciurro/

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:35] Bob opens the show, introducing our guest for the day.

[1:29] Brad introduces today’s guest Chris Picciurro of Integrated Financial Group. He’s a 20-year CPA who hails from Detroit and has worked with Brad for the last 5 years with accounting help at Anthem.

[3:27] Brad asks Chris about what he sees on the financial horizon for 2021.

[3:58] Chris talks about tax season and the 3 main principles that he follows when maneuvering the complexities of paying taxes.

The government is your business partner. Involuntary business partner? Yes. But you get to write the operating agreement- you get to decide how to organize your business and manage your affairs.

[5:51] Brad says that he wants the advice we give to be informative for everyone- simplified, pared down basics that someone who’s thinking of starting a new business this year.

[6:33] Brad says his objective when dealing with this involuntary business partner is paying them as little as necessary to keep the agreement legal and fair.

[7:14] Chris adds that another part of the perks of being in business with the government is that you get to choose your board of directors, cpa, attorney, insurance professional, and more.

Legally and ethically reduce the taxes that employers and entrepreneurs pay in their lifetime- not today, not next year, but over the course of their business life.

[8:08] Chris moves on to principle #2: Your Facts equal your Tax. If you want to change your tax situation, you have to change your fact pattern. Do this on your own, or task it to your board of directors.

[8:51] Chris: “Tax Return” should be a verb, not a noun. If it is something that you only think about at the end of the year, the government is a really bad business partner!

[9:44] Brad mentions a quote that we talk about a lot here on Agency Exposed “The processes run your business and your people run the processes.”

He says that as a client, ICPA makes it very easy and clear for the customers to see what the processes are and how things work.

[12:34] Ken asks Chris for some tips on what business owners can do throughout the year that are simple but help to plan for tax season- outside of hiring an advisor.

[13:16] Chris shares principle #3 - Understand the difference between cash flow and tax flow. Cash flow is easy- cash comes in, cash goes out. Tax flow is either tax deduction or taxable income.

[15:12] Chris follows a simple formula- diagnose the problem and prescribe a solution.

[17:13] Ken shares that agencies are one of the most vulnerable to challenges in cash flow, so differentiating between cash flow and tax flow is a great foundation. Often it can be intimidating to put your savings into an account that you can’t access for a long period of time- you want to invest the money and put it somewhere safe where it can make more money for you, but being able to access that in an emergency is important.

[19:06] Chris says that makes sense- after all, cash is king. As a young business owner, start somewhere small. Create a business savings account and grow it over time, use it throughout the year to purchase assets and use for investment.

[20:24] Bob asks Chris about the most common mistake he sees small business owners make.

[20:48] Chris responds that he most often sees small business owners take advice from their peers instead of their CPA or financial advisor- Not creating a financial team & board of advisors.

[22:30] Bob asks if Chris works with marketing agencies- Yes! They work with entrepreneurs and real estate investors, as well as many kinds of agencies. Bob continues, asking the unique challenges that come from service industry businesses as opposed to businesses who offer products.

[23:34] Chris responds that tax returns are a commodity. Their business is a membership-based subscription model, as they want to provide deep value for their clients via guidance on strategy, consulting, and planning. If they can’t provide that, they won’t work with a client.

“Let your best client pick your next client.” This is the mantra they follow at ICPA, and it helps them to connect with potential clients that will deeply benefit from the value they offer.

[25:27] Ken asks if there are any things that they do differently for business who are primarily service-oriented.

[26:11] Chris says businesses with inventory automatically have huge cash flow challenges. So for them, making sure they have capital and working with their banker is very important.

For a service-based business, the rules change slightly due to the Tax Cuts and Jobs Act of 2017. The biggest differences are that successful service-based businesses has strong processes

[27:21] Ken asks about optimizing Research & Development credits available to service-based industries.

[27:34] Chris speaks to the CPA perspective of this. If a client comes forward who wants to take advantage of this R&D credit, they will bring in their team to see what your business is doing that truly are moving forward in your industry. You can also have them look to see if the work you’ve done in the past 3 years is something that you can claim.

[30:04] Brad talks about how Anthem has been able to take advantage of R&D credit. There is quite a lot of time and paperwork that you have to invest, but once you do that it’s done and you can move forward.

A caveat to how you may qualify- your labor must be inside of the United States.

[31:34] Ken says that the R&D credit helps businesses like his to learn to innovate and invest in that innovation. It lowers risk.

[34:26] Bob asks Chris what he anticipates changing under our new political administration.

[34:50] Chris talks about new tax plans that may be passed under Biden, saying that nothing is likely to happen in 2021. However, he did propose a corporate tax increase up to 28% flat tax.

He mentions tuition credits and student loan differentiations as well, but the theme of the new administration is the higher your income, the more negative result.

[39:25] Brad asks about the types of businesses and allocations/ corporations that there are, for those who many be looking to start a business today.

[40:23] Chris responds:

Sole proprietorship- do everything yourself.
LLC- limited liability company, either single member or corporation (C or S). C corporations are separately taxed from you as an individual entity.
Forming an LLC is the best way to start- in the first 75 days you can choose to be a C or S corp.

[48:28] Chris gives us another piece of advice: Don’t let the tax tail wag the dog- keep doing your business successfully and we’ll work on how to minimize your taxes legally and ethically.

View Details

Summary:

In today’s episode we break down the importance of mental, physical, and spiritual health. We share our experience and secrets in training and putting your health FIRST. We show you why training like a pro athlete will be the key to your success. We also give practical tips on improving physical health, and offer advice for anyone seeking holistic health in their lives. How does diet really impact the way you run your business? How can you find time to work out without feeling guilty for taking time away from work? Is it possible to remove the reactivity of your mind when it comes to stressful decision-making in your business?

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Train like a pro athlete. As a business leader, health is part of your job- not a luxury, but a NECESSITY. Everything flows from your body. Not keeping it in peak condition is simply (frankly) irresponsible. Yeah, we went there...
Mental health is JUST as important as physical health- and there is NOTHING more anxiety-inducing than an unhealthy work environment. As a business owner, you are in a unique position to provide your employees with a better life that directly benefits your bottom line. Providing mental health support for your team is a no-brainer.
Begin each day with centering yourself. Prayer, meditation, and quiet focus to help you align the activities in your day with the goals you have. Working through the fear of being unproductive when taking time for yourself can be enormously challenging- but one that shows benefits immediately. Finding 5-10 minutes of time alone to quiet your mind every day is a great place to start.

Resources

Questions about how to get in peak physical condition while juggling your busy work and family life? Reach out to Ken on Instagram (@iamKenOtt)

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:35] The Guys catch up, Bob asks Ken about how his fast is going and they segue into today’s topic: How your body impacts the health of your business.

[3:45] Bob mentions a previous episode where they talked about the importance of training for professional athletes and how that is also vital to success as a business owner.

[4:15] Ken has always been interested in fitness and being healthy. In adult life the challenges have come with parenthood- getting enough rest, adapting your schedule to the new environment and challenges.

[6:06] Ken continues, saying that finding time during the day to work out without feeling guilt or shame was very challenging. But ultimately, health is part of his job and a necessity.

[8:50] Brad shares his journey through physical and mental health. He’s had a lot of inconsistencies with his workout routines and has felt it, but recently found some activities that he enjoys.

[11:43] Ken talks about the friction between the social isolation of Covid and the fear and lack of caring that many of us experience with our diet and health. If you have a routine that you don’t enjoy, find a way to make it enjoyable! Apps like Apple fitness help reduce that friction because you can do workouts from home.

[13:35] Bob asks about Brad’s experience with the up and down of working out and being more healthy.

[14:10] Brad talks about the hustle culture that he was surrounded by in LA, saying he definitely didn’t take care of himself as well as he should have. Until Covid hit, he’d been working out regularly for around 8-9 years. He talks about the mental clarity and confidence that comes along with being mindful of your health.

[16:54] Ken talks about the concept of learning to like or at least tolerate your workout routine. When you don’t feel like doing it, just go through the motions and do it- as you do that, your body will begin to produce those chemicals that help you find motivation again.

[17:55] Bob shares a quote that resonates with him- “motion is lotion” meaning that even a small bit of movement helps your brain/body/spirit begin to reach that place of synchronicity.

[18:58] Ken talks about finding what works for you and the benefits that come along with it. Your ability to have fun and enjoy life in general goes up.

[20:55] Bob says that the periods of consistency with his workout schedule are when he feels his best. In order to stay sharp, relevant, competitive, you have to take care of your mind AND your body.

There is a definite mind-body connection that takes place in your gut. When your gut health improves, so does your overall mood.

[23:23] Ken talks about something called the “success gap”, and how you have to have strong reasoning for why you're doing something in order for it to last. So making a monetary commitment is a great way to hold yourself accountable past that success gap period of 4-6 weeks.

[24:06] Brad talks about having accountability from people and how he uses that to get motivated and stay motivated.

[25:22] Bob suggests attempting to “gamify” exercise and incorporate more competition with yourself into your routine.

[26:53] Bob shifts gears to talking about sleep- he recently purchased a Casper mattress (not sponsored) and he says that the importance of a good night’s sleep is so vital to health. He asks Brad and Ken about their sleep woes.

[28:20] Ken talks about his journey through learning more about sleep- understanding the level of restoration and healing that takes place during sleep as well as learning that the ingredients for getting a good night’s sleep are very finicky.

As he’s been on a 21-day liquid fast, his sleep quality has increased significantly. The first day it went up and then stayed there.
Current science says that you really don’t need the full 8 hours of sleep, but rather the right amount of the different kinds of sleep (REM, Deep sleep, etc) on a consistent basis.

[31:22] Ken continues, talking about how modern technology has ruined circadian rhythms.

[33:40] Ken talks about the lack of motivation that people can have to work on their sleep- but if you figure out why you’re doing it, why you’re adjusting your life and habits then it can help.

Work towards reducing blue lights on your eyes
Zinc and Magnesium assist with sleep as well

[35:05] Bob also suggests no late-night snacking. While you may think you’re hungry, taking in more food late at night is just waking up your body again to process the fuel that you’ve given it.

[36:18] Ken talks about how your body continues doing work as you stop eating food, there are certain processes that can only happen when you’re not eating (autophagy of the cells).

He talks about the WhoopBand that he uses for sleep tracking- separate from the capabilities of an Apple Watch. A brand cann Oura makes a ring that you can wear to track sleep as well.

[40:40] Ken changes the topic to the health of your team as well as yours. Being a healthy leader will change your perspective in anxiety-riddled situations in business. He makes it a priority that his team have access to mental, physical, and spiritual health, and asks Bob and Brad what they do to be intentional about this as leaders.

[42:23] Bob talks about the toxicity of an unhealthy work environment. It’s where we all spend most of our lives, and it will impact you in ways that you don’t even realize.

Some practical ways that he experiences health in business- his company will host team events several times a month and sometimes participate in challenges on apps together to get healthier.

[45:20] Ken talks about dealing with people who are consistently negative, and how that can impact and change the behavior of everyone in the room.

[47:13] Ken talks about dealing with his team with mind, body, and spirit in mind. Metacake offers a subsidized membership to a gym in the area. They also offer free counseling twice a month from a local pastor.

[50:27] Bob talks about the telehealth solutions that have popped up over the last year- they are a great option for having someone to talk to quickly and over the phone.

[51:10] Ken says that the mentality of having a physical person in-house helps to inspire others in the group as well. Helps to normalize pursuing mental health.

He compares business to a battlefield, saying that when the person standing next to you in battle is exhausted from a night of partying before the big battle, that impacts the entire army. Similarly, learning to combat the toxicity of the news cycle and restrictions from Covid-19 is a giant mental health challenge.

[53:38] Bob talks about media trauma, saying that it is pervasive and widespread now more than ever. The things that you consume are SO important today more than ever.

[54:34] Brad talks about meditation and prayer, telling us that this has been a big focus for him in 2021.

[55:11] Brad continues, saying that the fear of being unproductive is pervasive for him but he’s found that in learning to sit with those feelings in silence for 5, 10, 15, 20 minutes at a time, the anxiety around that feeling has quieted and been reduced significantly. He has more mental clarity.

[57:13] Bob says that focusing on meditation and prayer is so vital to learning to defend your boundaries. He’s read about a theory that goes against the current social norms- self-help trends and grinding mentalities- that instead focuses on finding your footing in life and growing deep in that footing. And when you are able to do that, even for short periods of time, you find yourself being more productive and reacting differently to life.

Learn to say no to things that are good but aren’t for you.

[59:09] Ken stresses the importance of being in touch with spirituality in some sense- it helps you to keep other parts of your life in balance.

[1:00:23] Ken says that often by just pursuing balance in mind, body, and spirit, you will benefit and begin to see things more clearly. There is a sense of peace that comes with that spiritual focus that bleeds into every other part of your life.

View Details

Summary:

Michael Begg is the co-founder of AMZ Advisers, a Guadalajara, Mexico based agency that specializes in Amazon Marketing, Management, and Strategy. We pick Mike’s brain on how he wound up being an Amazon marketing agency, the biggest lessons he’s learned from his experience, his services structure, and even get into tips for effectively marketing products on Amazon.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Diversification is important, but intelligent specialization of your agency is crucial in a world where so many agencies are everything to everyone. You must balance the two.
Amazon can REALLY allow you to retire on the beach- specifically due to their fulfillment programs. You can have Amazon handle every step of the process.
Amazon is a discovery tool. 70% of online searches start on Amazon- so being where the people are is a no-brainer. Amazon allows you to capture customers that you wouldn’t otherwise, and redirect them to your website in a variety of ways.

About our Guest:

Mike Begg is an Ecommerce entrepreneur with a background in commercial real estate. He saw the opportunity in ecommerce early and began his journey as an Amazon Marketing agency in 2015. He has spoken for organizations such as SEM Rush and has extensive experience marketing on Amazon for a variety of industries.
Connect with his agency directly: https://amzadvisers.com/
Check out AMZ’s Amazon courses teaching the fundamentals of the platform and how to build your own brands with Amazon: https://www.amzcourses.com/

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[1:33] The Guys introduce today’s episode topic: Amazon. Many agencies have turned Amazon into a one-channel specialty- is that a good thing?

[3:56] Bob introduces today’s guest Mike Begg of AMZ Advisers. With his extensive experience in Amazon marketing, he knows the ins and outs of Amazon well.

[4:30] Mike is calling us from his office in Guadalajara, Mexico. His team and offices are located there but he is originally from Connecticut.

[5:45] Mike tells us about his history. He started out working for Deloitte in consultation, but wasn’t a fan. After trying out real estate and watching retail spaces shift and change so quickly, he saw that ecommerce was the future. He and his team began importing products and selling them on Amazon, seeing the opportunity before many others did.

[7:05] Mike talks about the instability of his business experiences, saying that he wanted to try something new. They started AMZ in 2015 after experiencing success on Amazon.

[11:37] Ken asks Mike about how they get clients- tips, techniques, and things that work well. What are roadblocks and challenges that didn’t work?

[11:55] Mike speaks on the importance of partnership- he had a partner that was great with sales that he could rely on. Although his background wasn’t in marketing, he was passionate about it and pushed for putting a lot of focus on great SEO blog content to build authority. This helped generate unique users that they wouldn’t have had otherwise.

[13:17] Brad asks about the location of their clients.

[13:40] Mike says most of their clients are US and Canada, but they also have an Asia team. Their niches are varied; apparel, health supplements, pet supplies, beauty products, etc.

[14:39] Mike shares the evolution of his business, and how they wound up in Mexico. Initially they had stopped working and moved to the beach- the dream! But then their income that was still coming in from Amazon began to show more promise.

The fulfillment programs provided by Amazon truly allow you to move to the beach and make money, and they are life changing. You have your inventory sent straight to Amazon, they fulfill it for you and warehouse it. There is never direct contact with orders, it’s purely marketing work.

[16:27] Brad asks about other work outside of Amazon that still promotes that work inside of the platform. How do they choose sales, etc that are outside of Amazon?

[16:50] Mike says that traditional link building is one place to start. 70% of online searches start on Amazon, so being there is an easy way to catch that influx. Also, depending on your audience and products, you can use sites like Pinterest to direct people to Amazon.

Amazon’s display advertising can also be used anywhere, so there is a variety of opportunities.

[18:43] Ken asks about how they choose the clients they work with, or the products they choose.

[19:00] Mike says it varies pretty dramatically, PPE supplies an example from early in the Covid Pandemic. Finding and acting on niche needs. They also have contacts in manufacturing that can get products made for clients if they don’t exist already.

[20:50] Bob asks about the upfront cost.

[21:24] Mike says that it depends on the level of launch. The cost of acquiring traffic is already low on Amazon, because that’s where people are already! $10,000 to order inventory with a couple thousand to play with advertising is a great place to start and get sales going.

[23:19] Bob asks about the types of services they offer their clients.

[23:25] Mike says they primarily focus on the platform space- Amazon is the largest and their specialty. Also using Amazon to generate brand awareness and bring people over to your brand website is an incredible source of opportunity.

[25:54] Ken asks about the strategy behind building trust enough to bring customers from Amazon to another platform, then talks about Amazon’s volatility, asking how Mike and his team mitigate that.

[26:30] Mike says that Amazon does make it challenging to bring people over to your platform. Including product info cards inside of the box or QR codes that send people to their website.

Amazon also has the ability to send traffic off the platform.
Volatility is a big problem, because there are so many variables at play. Amazon doesn’t adhere to MAP pricing, so the competition and complications with distributors can be risky.

[30:30] Brad asks how they put together teams for clients who may have a one-off product that they want to sell.

[30:46] Mike says there are levels. Typically they help manage entire life cycles on the platform, starting with creating SEO content, visual content, building reviews, and attaining social proof. Then they focus on scaling sales, with hundreds of different strategies available depending on the product and attract customers.

[31:45] Brad asks about indicators of traction that a product is doing well in teh first couple months of sales.

[32:07] Mike describes the typical path, saying that the results are varied. He’s had clients who went from zero to $90,000 a month in a few months while others go from 30 to 300 over two years. If you have the resources and the team members to help you scale quickly, you can make SIGNIFICANT sales in a very short period of time.

[34:30] Ken talks about setting yourself up for failure or disappointment- it can be easy to get your hopes up with quick sales on a platform like Amazon.

[34:56] Brad says that focusing on having an ROI that you can SCALE is where the balance is- he asks Mike if you need to be prepared to ride the roller coaster if you’re working with Amazon.

[35:36] Mike talks about competition on Amazon, saying that can increase the pressure. He shares an experience with a brand who was undercut on a supplier who they attempted to work with that immediately launched the product themselves.

[37:30] Bob asks about guard against people knocking off Amazon products.

[38:13] Mike says that this is exactly why building a brand outside of the platform is so valuable, as well as valuing your intellectual property and having it protected. If you’re selling products that are made in China, make sure you have a patent or some sort of protection in that country as well as the country that you’re selling from.

[39:50] Ken asks about engagements and different levels of engagement and pricing.

[40:34] Mike says they offer a la carte services, but for full service agreemeents the base tier will start anywhere from $2,000 to $3,000 a month on retainer with a dedicated account manager. This incudes managing advertising and strategy assistance.

The next level up would include helping with launching products and content creation. Perhaps Mike himself or another partner would check in on your account.
Top few tiers are much more specialized, with a couple of account managers working on your brand on the platform. Top tier services would be from $7,000 to $10,000 a month on retainer.

[42:34] Ken asks about their portfolio, what sort of products do they own and sell versus products in their whole agency that they’re selling.

[43:26] Mike says that now it’s definitely more work for clients than selling products themselves, at least 85% of what they do.

[44:27] Brad says that as an Amazon stock holder, he wants to know what Mike thinks is the next big Amazon killer, like Walmart and challenged Amazon’s supremacy.

[44:58] Mike says that right now, Walmart is the closest to disrupting Amazon, but their platform is still years behind what Amazon is doing.

[45:58] Ken says that maybe Shopify could one day step up and compete. He talks about the healthy aspects of competition and how it winds up being good for everyone in the end, and he says that Amazon could be providing a bit of a disservice in that way.

[47:36] Brad wonders if the government would ever get involved in breaking up the monopoly that Amazon seems to have.

[47:50] Mike talks about how more and more governments are paying attention to Amazon as a platform because of the user data. In some European countries, platforms are required to disclose how their algorithms work, so that could be a possibility for us as well.

[50:01] Bob asks Mike for two or three tips that he wishes he knew three to five years ago when he was starting his agency. Business advice, things he struggled to learn the hard way, etc.

[50:29] Mike talks #1- Commission Caps. #2 Control Your product. At the end of the day in the digital agency space, the product is the people you have on your team.

[52:12] Ken asks for a primary takeaway from 2020 that he is carrying into his future business endeavors.

[53:00] Mike says that he and his clients realized before last year even that ecommerce and digital marketing is evolving rapidly and changing quickly within the Amazon platform- and so being nimble, agile, and ready to adapt to changes has been extremely important.

[54:34] Mike shares how you can contact him- through AMZ’s website at www.amzadvertisers.com or directly by email- Mike@amzadvisors.com. They also have a Youtube Channel and offer courses at amzcourses.com. Their courses are Amazon accelerated teaching about the fundamentals of the platform and how to build your own brands with Amazon.

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Summary:

Diversification is a hot topic for us- and for digital marketers especially, the coming years are going to be filled with challenges. Today we talk about our experience with single-platform marketing strategies and share the benefits and drawbacks of focusing on a single channel. We discuss how marketers need to be diversifying away from their laser-focus on platforms like Facebook and Google- and instead, focus on the messaging and VALUE they are adding to the lives of their customers. We discuss our thoughts on what the future holds for digital marketing, and give suggestions for how you can actively work towards a holistic marketing message across all platforms.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

It’s no longer easy! Businesses have to be committed to figuring out how to use multiple marketing channels. To do this, they must break their addiction to immediate ROI. To find new channels, you have to invest in figuring it out, many times with no immediate return.
Get back to the fundamentals and break your reliance on platforms! A benefit to the age-old frustration consumers have with advertising - agencies and marketers are required to be excellent practitioners of their craft. The power of storytelling is the real value of a great marketer- now is the time to revisit those skills instead of relying on targeting tools and platforms.
Encourage your clients to make a concerted effort at diversifying their marketing channels- this will only become increasingly important and necessary as technology continues to shift and change.

Resources Mentioned:

Rich Dad, Poor Dad by Robert T Kiyosaki
Confessions of an Advertising Man by David Ogilvy

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. He is now the VP of Digital Marketing at 5by5 Agency. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:35] Bob opens the episode by asking Brad how his back is doing- his bike riding hobby gave him a bit of pain over the weekend. The Guys chat about their own biking accidents- Ken has flown over the handlebars recently!

[2:33] Ken updates us on his New Years fast- he did this last year as well. The first few days are rough, but today’s episode has found him feeling good and energized. His fasting is deeply tied to finding mental clarity and inner strength for himself at the beginning of the year- and he talks about his belief that nutrition and exercise are foundational to running his business well.

[5:55] Brad chats about the “easter eggs” he’s dropped about investment advice in recent months- Bob and Ken regret not taking his advice when he gave it!

[7:05] Ken shares that Brad’s financial wisdom and philosophy has been interesting to learn about over the past year- future episodes will definitely be featuring some of Brad’s expertise.

[7:49] Bob recaps the conversation The Guys were having before the start of the show- as agency owners, as business owners, there are some things to be thinking about as the New Year begins. One thing is how to market your expertise- focusing in on the reliance on certain platforms that may or may not be around in the same form in the next 12 months.

[9:03] Bob asks Ken: “There are so many agencies that are really really good at Facebook ads… but does that make them a good marketing service for their clients?”

[9:54] Ken says that in order to truly diversify, you have to look forward and really consider: “What does it mean for these platforms to either go away or lose their effectiveness in how easy it is to advertise?”

From this experience talking with potential clients, not many people are truly thinking about this.
Trends come and go in seasons, and it would be unwise to say that doesn’t apply to marketing platforms. Already there are signs of instability- privacy changes overnight, legal challenges, overcrowding and oversaturation, increased cost, etc. These instabilities are not easy to overcome, and it’s not a quick route to diversify away from one platform that is doing really well.

[11:54] Bob shares that he was doing an audience analysis recently- a client had a TON of great engagement on Facebook Livestream, with thousands watching at once. But the accompanying website had only been viewed around 3,000 times. So that client is in danger of losing a LOT of their business and following if Facebook were to suddenly tank.

He talks about the early days of Facebook marketing and how lucrative it was- until it wasn’t. People pronounced Facebook marketing as dead, but really marketers had to adapt to the new algorithm.

[15:29] Brad shares his concern for younger marketers who are getting the majority of their experience on one platform, like Facebook. They aren’t learning multi-channel marketing strategy. “If you’re on a single platform and that’s all you do, it can be challenging if that platform in two or three years starts to diminish…. the strategic side of things could get diminished a bit, because people just don’t have that wealth of experience.”

[16:23] Ken agrees, saying that a lot of marketers have become more of platform manipulators- it’s easy to get bogged down in the details. But really if an ad isn’t working, the first question should be “Is our message resonating with an audience? A great message with the right audience will resonate no matter what.” He talks about how the process of stepping back from reliance on a single platform is difficult.

[18:18] Bob shares a quote from David Ogilvie. “As a practitioner, I know that television is the most potent advertising medium ever devised. And I make most of my living from it. But as a private person, I would gladly pay for the privilege of watching it without commercial interruptions. Morally, I find myself between the rock and the hard place.”

The mindset of people hasn’t changed much- many of us would still pay extra to not be marketed to with commercials. This speaks to the globally fragmented world that we live in- the pockets of frustration with people who would rather just tune out completely.
To a marketer, this means that “I’ve got to be really really good at my craft, so that I can communicate and speak on behalf of a client without relying exclusively on paid advertising. That’s the exercise we really need to be thinking about for ourselves… how can we tell… good stories? How can we be... good communicators in a world where maybe Facebook did go away, maybe Google did go away- Would we still be able to bring value to our customers?”

[22:45] Ken shares something he took away from a recent Masterclass he watched. It featured the creators of the “Got Milk” campaign Jeff Gooby and Rich Silverstein, and they shared their philosophy regarding advertising- “Advertising is art serving Capitalism”

This is an interesting concept, and really adds to the idea that people don’t want bad advertising- if we have to have it, at least make it entertaining! People on Facebook often don’t understand that the platform is run on ads- so unless your ads are good, helpful, useful, providing value to people, they’re just not going to work. In order to create good ads, you have to step back from reliance on the platform itself.
“There are a lot of people unaware that they’re more platform manipulators and not really marketers.” If you’re not creating an ad or a campaign that’s genuinely interesting and people want to watch, it’s not going to work!

[24:26] Bob shares an ad that he watched recently that made him emotional and was done very very well- THIS is the kind of response you want from your viewers.

[26:45] Brad talks about how YouTube has begun serving more ads on the videos that he watches- he asks the guys if they pay for the ad-free version. The Guys discuss their likes and dislikes about ads- YouTube creates a need for advertisers to get your attention quickly, so they have to put a lot of effort into their production.

[28:38] Bob brings the subject back around to his David Ogilvie quote from earlier- there really is this pressure that you’re working against in advertising- even on paid platforms people get served ads that are frustrating to them, so your quality naturally should improve.

[29:57] Bob asks Ken if there will be more grassroots advertising efforts in the future, because of the imperative of diversifying your platforms.

[30:40] Ken says that in the future, creativity will be more of a necessity because as we become less reliant on a single platform, that growth requires new ideas and different approaches to past messaging.

[32:28] Brad talks about the changes in marketing strategies since extreme targeting abilities within platforms like Facebook became widespread knowledge.

[33:54] Ken predicts that moving from digital to traditional principles in the coming years will be more challenging that when the industry moved from traditional to digital. “I think it will revert back to where there are less knobs we can twist, there’s less we can do. And so it’s not as much learning a new platform as it is learning how to advertise again or learning to do business differently.”

[35:22] Bob talks about the way that styles and trends come back around, and that pattern applies to the marketing industry as well. “The key to winning there is everything comes back around, but it has a new slightly different twist.”

[36:06] Ken discusses the strengths of email and owning it as a marketing strategy- but like everything else it won’t work if you don’t have a good message.

[39:00] Brad talks about how advertising on screens in cars is a whole new medium of advertising that will only get stronger and more powerful over time.

[40:00] Bob shares that optimization for voice search devices is only going to increase, and optimizing your business for those searches will become a niche.

[40:40] Ken talks about how many agencies and businesses aren’t looking into those investments because they are addicted to ROI. “Its been a race to the bottom for a lot of agencies…” in regards to cost.

[42:20] Bob asks what would happen if visual advertising went away. We’re entering a world where people take time off of their phones, and so the only way to advertise would be through other voice devices. This is the time for businesses to prepare for a future with only voice search or streaming platforms instead of phones.

[43:57] Ken asks- What should businesses do to prepare right now?

[44:05] Bob says think outside the duoploy of Facebook and Google- keep developing your skills there but don’t become reliant on it.

[44:30] Brad says that direct mail campaigns that are hyper-targeted to specific levels of your funnel is a great way to create “human touch” for your brand and business.

[45:37] Ken stresses that breaking your addiction to ROI is at the top of his list. Learning to invest in creativity and being willing to step outside of that box is SO necessary to surviving and thriving as an agency.

[48:37] Brad says that while these alternative routes may not be as trackable or measurable, creative marketers will find ways to measure. “When you’re trying to build a brand, they all work in conjunction with each other and eventually you’ll see the results of your efforts.”

[52:18] Brad talks about working with startups who have no idea what their lifetime value is- it can be a difficult thing to determine that and move away from ROI as a business owner or brand manager. Getting clients to think more long-term is the difficult part.

[54:10] Ken talks about “stepping back” from your process and your message. “I think you see a lot of opportunity once you start playing that game of understanding what message is going to connect with the person and not really worrying about the medium… then the fear of things going away gets diminished a little bit.”

[55:19] Brad “A brand is a promise, but a great brand is a promise kept.” If you’re doing ads, the best thing to do is keep that promise.

Rich Dad Poor Dad (What the Rich Teach Their Kids About Money - That the Poor and Middle Class Do Not!)

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Summary:

Happy New Year! Good riddance! See ya 2020! Today we are breaking down our themes for 2021 and how they were shaped in part from the events of this year. We all know there have been challenges and learning curves, major lessons learned, losses, and new opportunities. Today we talk about everything from breathing techniques to reorienting your brain to see opportunity instead of limitations- and that mindset shift is vital to entering into the New Year from a place of power and positivity. Let’s move into 2021 with intention and excitement no matter what your situation.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Brad’s Phrase for 2021: A New Hope. While 2020 handed us challenges that were unprecedented, there is renewal available for us all. A New Hope for the economy, for the vaccine trials, for healing as American citizens- there is plenty of reason for Hope and Renewal in 2021.
Bob’s phrase for 2021: Re-Imagined Growth. Growth can be passive or active, and in 2021 Bob wants to reimagine what active growth he and his business are capable of- change happens one way or another, so being an active participant in re-imagining that growth is a great goal for us all to take into the New Year.
Ken’s phrase for 2021: Winter is MY Season. Tricking your mind to enjoy challenges creates a miraculous shift. Also, being ready to act when “winter comes” gives you a chance to take advantage of the opportunity rather then fight for survival. Winter is here in many ways. Make it YOUR time. There are so many changes in the landscape of agency life right now- changes that take strength and more importantly endurance to survive and thrive through. Turn those challenges on their head and claim them as his own- there is power in that mindset shift!

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:51] Bob reminds us that last year The Guys each chose a word to be the theme and focus of 2020- today we’re sharing our words (or phrases) for 2021.

[1:44] Brad’s word for 2021 is “A New Hope”- he speaks about hope for the economy, for a vaccine, for a stronger America in 2021.

[4:35] Ken says that towards the end of tragedy or illness, sickness, loss, etc- there is always renewal and hope.

[5:35] Bob’s word (phrase) is “re-imagined growth”. Every living organism on earth grows, but in 2021 Bob wants to reimagine what that growth means. Growth can be passive or active and as human beings we can be resistant to that active growth. When you have a goal of wanting things to look different that active vs passive growth makes all the difference.

[8:59] Ken talks about how Bob’s mentality often looks forward and moves more quickly to letting go of the past and moving forward- that’s an admirable quality for sure.

Many of us have the unhealthy habit of wishing the past was different, wishing we could change something about our lives that is out of our control- we use so much energy wishing and thinking about things that are totally out of our control.

[12:17] Bob recalls a quote “We understand our lives in reverse, but we have to live them forward.” While it’s healthy to review your year, to review your choices and actions so as to prevent a mistake in the future, it’s not healthy to stay with those feelings of regret.

[14:15] Brad shares that he wants to work on trusting his gut more this year, as a personal resolution of sorts.

[17:43] Ken shares his personal word/phrase for 2021, Clarity. The emergency state of 2021 was like a box that got emptied out and now things need to be reorganized and reoriented. Where businesses may have been running triage for 10 months.

[21:55] Ken’s word for Metacake in 2021 is Strong. He talks endurance and the power of focusing on strength as a business.

[23:31] Ken speaks to the importance of staying strong- introduces Metacake’s phrase for the year. “Winter is my Season.”

[25:18] Ken talks about Wim Hoff, a Dutch extreme athlete known for his ability to withstand freezing temperatures. He has broken ALL of the rules in science for what humans are capable of surviving, and focuses on breathing for regulating his mind and body responses.

[27:51] Ken shares his relationship with winter- not a fan in general. But that’s the reason for this phrase- not only that you can do hard things, but that you can embrace hard things.

[30:56] Bob rephrases what Ken is sharing- it is possible to reorient your brain towards positivity and opportunity.

[31:58] Ken asks- what if you enjoyed the process of failure? How can you find joy in your life if most of what you’re doing is failure- reorient your mind around what that means.

Tony Robbins quote: “The secret to happiness is learning to love the situation you’re in.”

[34:13] Brad recalls having Covid and how the experience of having it gave him a sense of confidence because now he’s been through it.

[36:17] Bob winds down this episode with a suggestion- when you’re in a situation where something bad is happening to you and not necessarily other people, you can ask yourself “What can I learn from this? How can I be better for this?” And then perhaps you’re actually happy it’s happening to you- if you can own that situation and decide that you’re grateful for it and the opportunity to learn, then you’re not wasting your time or energy.

[37:32] Ken explains that the other side of “Winter is my Season” is in the results of the belief- if you can take advantage of the winter that is coming, then winter is always your season! The other side of the phrase is an energizing thing!

View Details

Summary:

Today we’re looking back on the entire year, reflecting on the themes we chose at the beginning of 2020 before we knew anything about lockdowns and pandemics. We are reflecting on how those themes have played out for each of us this year- even if not in the way that we thought they would. We talk about our journeys through the challenging landscape that Covid-19 has created, and how we plan to approach 2021 through a different lens. Having a spirit of gratitude, a realistic awareness of your privilege, and pure intentions for your business and your customers is a great place to start. We discuss the ways we plan to stay plugged into these new perspectives and how we can move into 2021 with confidence and- dare we say- optimism!

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Ken’s phrase was “Go Public with Purpose- Even when it’s Hard” and that has been SO applicable to 2020. Often when we have a goal that we want to achieve, we wait for things to be “perfect” to begin- but 2020 has taught us that moving forward is the only way through difficult situations. Perseverance has grown massively through this encouraging phrase.
Bob’s words were “Transform” and “Leap”- both words that apply to the growth and learning curves that 2020 has thrown our way. In light of having so much forced reflection time due to shutdowns, Bob has managed to transform his own work life into something entirely new, a fresh leap forward into a new role with a new company.
Finding your center means moving through life with fresh eyes and an open mind- it allows you to be less reactive and more proactive. Spend some time in this final season of 2020 to journal and recognize what you’ve learned from this year, what you want to change, and how you want to move into 2021 with a clearer mind and more open heart.

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[1:51] Bob recalls one of the first episodes from this year, where The Guys discussed what their Word for 2020 would be. This was pre- Coronavirus and pre- Shutdown.

[2:39] Brad’s word was Clarity. “Covid hit and it just kind of naturally cleared those things up… I got clarity because of Covid in a weird way.” It brought perspective.

His new phrase for this year- A New Hope.
He reflects on clarity as it applies to 2020- there was major clarity gained for Brad this year. Priorities were readjusted and the really important things became the focus.

[5:20] Ken talks about his word for 2020- Go. Metacake’s phrase for 2020 was “Go Public with Purpose, even when it’s Hard.” This has been more true this year than expected.

Throughout the year, this idea was something he looked back at and pulled from- especially during times when he felt the need to hunker down. This phrase has helped to direct the team to perseverance and hope beyond the unknowns in the world.
Sometimes we want things to be perfect before we Go, we wait until things are just so- but in reality if you wait for perfection before you move, you’re losing out on that window of opportunity. It’s good to be wise with your steps, but also sometimes you have to just GO!

[9:26] Bob’s words for 2020 were “Transformation” and “Leap”- change typically means something different, but transform means the core stays the same and morphs into something new and different and hopefully better.

[11:30] Bob talks about “Leap”-ing to a better position in 2020. He’s with a new agency in a new role, and lots of personal changes have been pleasantly transformational and led to making leaps into a new phase of his life.

[12:50] Brad shares about his feeling of heaviness and mourning this year, how he’s taken a lot of it on and it’s been a process to allow himself to mourn the changes that have occurred globally. His business has done well, but there is a bit of guilt that tinges the sweetness of that result.

[15:01] Bob talks about the reality of the year- that The Guys may be doing well but that a LOT of people haven’t had it good this year at all. We’ve all experienced that suffering in our lives, and it’s important to keep that in mind and be aware of your position of success.

[16:04] Ken says that picking a word or intention for the year is more of a strategic move than anything- it will help you to focus and use as a reference point for the difficulties that are bound to come.

[17:04] Bob talks about a study done by Harvard Business school- those who write down their goals and intentions over their career (30-40 years) are able to trace their success back through those writings. Being intentional about your goals is not just a hokey suggestion- it is backed by real science and proven by success in the business world!

[18:03] Ken asks “Would you take 2020 back if you could?”

[18:22] Brad and Bob both say absolutely not! Brad adds that the learning he’s done this year has grown him in ways that he never would have grown otherwise. He learned things about himself in Quarantine alone that he would never trade- “I think we’ve all been pushed to the point where you kind of get to understand who you really are and what the inner priorities in your life are.”

[20:26] Brad talks pent-up energy in 2020 that is going to burst forward in 2021. Ecommerce alone has changed so much, faster than it would have otherwise. And that has lead to innovation and growth in entirely new ways.

[22:04] Ken talks about the difficulty breeding growth for him personally and how it forced him to grow in a lot of ways. He talks about having permission to remove himself from the mundane routine that he had gotten used to- this year gave him permission to get out of that routine.

[24:29] Bob talks about how this disruption has been great for humanity in general- historically, there is something in every generation that causes a reset in priorities and increased resiliency. This will be studied for years to come due to the technology and how massively things have shifted.

[26:31] Ken isolates the difference between a good leader and someone who maybe doesn’t accomplish as much as a leader- good leaders look at how we’re going to transform instead of just complaining about how bad things are. “At some point, you have to put that behind you.”

[26:50] Brad talks about how fortunate America is as a whole, our economy was strong at the beginning of this. So even though every business essentially shut down for a while, our stock market kept momentum and some financial excitement was created.

The sad part of the privilege of being American is that we are so quick to forget history that we often don’t learn our lesson the first time around. Brad expresses his fear of losing sight of what he’s learned.

[29:21] Ken suggests creating things that will be reminders going forward- things like keeping a journal solely for the purpose of recording your learnings. It helps you stay reminded of what you’ve learned and how far you’ve come, the lessons you’ve learned along the way and the mistakes you made that taught you these things.

[32:10] Brad shares that he did keep a journal while he had Covid, purely to keep track of his experience for future children or grandchildren, etc. Over time the stories will likely be embellished, etc so it’s nice to have a real documentation of what it was like for him.

[33:08] Brad wants to carve out more time for himself to be Quiet.

[33:49] Bob talks meditation, breathing, and prayer. 2020 has given him more time and space to do this for himself, and it’s been enormously powerful and transformative.

[34:41] Brad worked on cultivating quietness for himself- 20 minutes of silence is difficult! It’s not just clearing out your thoughts, but also your emotions.

[36:29] Ken says that especially in the agency world- having boundaries and barriers with clients can be so challenging. Making time for yourself and protecting that time is enormously valuable. Ken also starts the year off with a fast to clear his mind and emotions.

[37:44] Bob talks about how these efforts at quieting your mind and emotions helps you to realize how truly out of control your are of your life and the events that take place- you don’t realize how little control you have of your thoughts.

[38:30] Bob continues: “I need to get back in control and centered of my own life… if I can’t do that for myself, I think I’m walking around unconsciously asleep, being controlled by my own money mind in my business with my family and my relationships… it’s really just releasing that.”

[38:55] Brad “When you start doing that, you really think of yourself as a prisoner to some degree of our society, of time, of stuff, of demands, of noises…” The amount of interruption we have in our life is truly incredible! Awareness of this is SO important.

[39:32] Ken “If you’re not aware of it already, you’re just a slave to it.”

[40:58] Bob talks about a phrase coined by a local therapist Jenny Black. The phrase “Media Trauma” is a very real thing- trauma from the internet is very real and important to acknowledge.

An example is the Boston Marathon bombing- people who saw that happen on their phones were more traumatized than those who were actually there. There is something that happens when your body experiences trauma- feeling like you can jump in and do something about it, or run away from it is very powerful for the brain. If you’re watching something happen there is nothing you can do, no support you can offer. And so it is just pure trauma.

[43:32] Brad suggests that there will be trends towards getting off social media for periods of time- it tends to numb us and eventually social media devalues itself. He asks- what would happen if there was a worldwide trend to give up social media to the point that digital agencies are now feeling the hit of that drawback.

[44:23] Ken says Metacake has had these discussions a lot but never on the podcast- digital marketing is changing and there will be some mass disruption inside of it eventually. Truly, the platform shouldn’t matter.

Digital marketing has become platform marketing, so the question is how do we move backwards from here so that we can stay viable and serve future clients and customers in the best way possible.

[45:39] Brad asks for any predictions in 2021.

[45:51] Bob says that we will feel the fallout from 2020, that things will be better than 2020 but the true aftermath of Covid-19 hasn’t revealed itself yet.

[46:56] Ken says that the opportunity that has been created is the most exciting thing for him- there will be even more opportunity in 2021.

[47:43] Brad predicts 2021 as the year of Bitcoin.

[48:25] Ken circles back around to the future of agencies in 2021- the position we see our businesses and how marketing fits into that.

View Details

Summary:

In this episode we discuss how we are approaching normal end of year activities in a new remote-ish landscape in a time where profits may not be as plentiful and parties may not be as comfortable. We talk bonus structures, socially-distance parties (#thumbsdown), the absolute importance of diversification going into 2021, and the systems and processes that are part of creating predictable revenue.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Profit doesn’t just happen, it takes people who are focused on creating real value. Encouraging value-creation on your team is critical. Reward and show appreciation for your team relative to the individual and collective value they create. Whether you offer across-the-board bonuses or not, make sure those key players KNOW they are appreciated and valued.
One goal for 2021 that you must embrace- Diversification. The more you can diversify your services and products as an agency, the less vulnerable to peaks and valleys your business will be!
If you’re still accepting paper checks from clients… welcome to the age of the internet. On behalf of the rest of us (and your future self), move to electronic payments. This can seem like an impossible move for some agencies used to a certain way of doing business- but moving to automated payments is the safest and most stabilizing move you can make for your business! Not sure how? Reach out to us - we’ve done it.

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[1:39] Bob introduces today’s topic, asking the Guys what Christmas gatherings are going to look like in 2020 and what to expect for 2021.

[2:07] Ken shares that Metacake typically has a Christmas party that some partners and clients are invited to attend. They always have an end of the year tshirt design and announcement at the holiday party as well, so that’s something that will happen again this year- at Arrington Vineyards, a gorgeous vineyard and winery in Middle TN. They have safe and socially-distanced options that Metacake will take advantage of!

[4:42] Brad and his company will have a small gathering at his home to celebrate the holidays.

[6:04] Ken stresses the importance of Holiday parties for morale’s sake. It’s been a rough year so finding a way to create a small gathering safely to celebrate is the way to go.

[6:59] Bob asks about giving bonuses this year in the context of agency life.

[7:26] Brad shares that he gives 2 types of bonuses, one that is across the board to a degree and one that has to do with the people on his team that are directly responsible for profit.

[8:54] Ken asks Brad about the bonus structure he uses and how he decides to let his employees take part- they also discuss SEP’s and how soon they allow employees to benefit from that.

[9:13] Brad dives into Simplified Employment Pensions and how his company uses them to provide retirement benefits to his employees.

[10:45] Brad continues, saying that as a small business they are trying their best to stay lean during this season until they have a better idea of what the next 6 months look like. So bonuses are very much dependent on and tied directly to profits and where they came from.

[12:12] Ken talks about how Metacake structures bonuses, saying that there’s a profit percentage that is split across a pool of people. “The discipline of doing a great job is part of the job description- you don’t get bonuses for doing a great job.” He talks about the value added by an employee and how that is massively important when considering bonuses.

[14:37] Brad talks bonuses as a small company, and how important it is that those people who directly contributed to your bottom line need to be compensated and shown appreciation for what they’ve done and worked hard for.

[15:36] Bob asks about special gifts or surprises for clients.

[16:19] Ken says that Metacake often sends gifts out after New Years instead of with every other holiday gift.

[17:47] Brad says that back in November he and his team began talking about what 2021 might look like for them, talking about how they’ll wrap up the year and what cashflow looks like, etc. Most clients want to relax during the holidays and for a lot of them, their fiscal year doesn’t end in December so there is less pressure.

[19:24] Ken shares that usually during December there are a lot of projects they are trying to finish off and wrap up with clients, mostly execution for his team. Currently they are looking at the type of strategic changes they can make entering into 2021, with so much that has changed and this “new normal” that may or may not have longevity.

[22:05] Ken “I’m looking at how we diversify even more aggressively across different types of sales channels… just being service based is risky to me… we’re trying to figure out how we diversify so that we can be less on the peaks and valleys of seasonality and be more consistent across the board.”

[23:00] Brad predicts that something very positive is going to happen in 2021! Ken agrees.

[23:51] Bob “For me, it’s kind of like, can’t get any worse, right? There’s five vaccines, Covid is going to get tackled somehow.”

[24:12] Bob continues, saying that getting to come back into the world after Covid is tackled means that growth is bound to happen. “I also feel like there’s a lot of innovation that has taken place… even small startups during the past year have innovated and done some really cool things.”

[24:53] Brad reflects on the way that Covid has affected businesses, saying that such a strong change in such a short window of time has taught him to get over things in a way that he couldn’t before.

He shares that AirBnB was almost completely bankrupt and closed earlier this year, but now is worth over a hundred billion dollars. Things change fast!

[27:02] Ken talks disruption, and says that this mindset shift has been great for a lot of people, to realize that keeping your mindset in the offensive is the way to go- which is easy when things are going great but not so easy when times are hard.

When challenges come, it’s easy to move to a defensive mindset “But then you have to somehow still maintain that healthy balance of being forward focused, authentic and driven so that you're able to act on opportunity. And you’re not just hunkering down for the winter that will eventually kill you over time.”

[29:39] Bob says that when business does well, your clients will remember who was with them through the winter. So as clients begin to pick back up and do well in 2021, they’ll remember that you stuck around and did what you could to help them survive and thrive.

[30:18] Ken talks hiring during “winter” and how this should be a time that you hire people who are high-quality people now if you find them, because finding great people when you really need it is always challenging.

[31:58] Bob asks about closing out books for 2020, asking if collections are difficult right now and how The Guys are maneuvering through that.

[32:19] Brad says that he has noticed clients who are having trouble paying their bills on time, so he is trying to work with them as much as possible. Some projects are being moved into 2021’s books so that they can close up 2020 efficiently.

[34:00] Ken shares that Metacake only uses automated billing, so that end of year rush to collect isn’t an issue. It an be difficult to take a more aggressive approach with this, but totally worth it in the end.

[35:06] Ken continues, saying that collecting paper checks is one of the biggest risks as an agency business. A mentor told him once that the biggest risk to your business is accounts receivable- “If you can’t get your accounts receivable in order, you’ll go out of business thinking you’re making money.”

[37:55] Brad adds that sometimes he does feel like a giant credit card for some clients who are 60 to 90 days out- stressing even further the importance of taking a different approach to collecting as an agency.

[39:36] Ken: “I think one of the challenges with being a small business is actually enforcing agreements and then also keeping the relationship.. There has to be a balance, you have to make sure you’re not getting steamrolled and you’re also being kind and empathetic.”

[40:29] Ken continues, saying that when you purchase something online, there is a process that you follow, with little room for flexibility in the purchase. And because that process left very little to no room for flexibility, you didn’t question it.

It should feel the same for potential clients- when the process for bringing on a new client is systemized, there is little room for bargaining over pricing or when you pay or how the relationship will look.
On the other hand, when you have a mindset of full customization, no process- that doesn't lend itself to taking electronic payments immediately.

[42:31] Brad says that the age of the clients will have something to do with this as well- if they’re younger and closer to Millennials, they will be more comfortable with processes and fitting into existing systems. But older generations may be more likely to ask to sit down and talk, to work on “the art of the deal” to customize the agreement for their company or their needs.

[43:02] Ken agrees, saying that there can be a hybrid of both. One way of presenting things to a client who is older- make sure they understand that online marketing versus traditional in-store retail marketing is NOT the same. If you can position yourself as the authority on that topic and subject matter, they will lean into your expertise more and are more likely to trust that the process you’ve established is the best for their business as well as yours.

[44:14] Brad isolates 2 things Ken has talked about today that he can carry into the New Year. #1- Go Electronic and #2 Create strong systems so that your clients know what to expect.

[44:41] Brad asks Ken and Bob about processes and systems- Is this the time where you guys identify those issues and create plans for changing?

[45:02] Bob talks about the medium-sized agency he’s working with currently. He is the head of the digital side of the agency and his focus right now is figuring out how to be more integrative and less siloed inside the agency.

Keep pushing for integration, keep pushing for digital, keep pushing for those things… as time goes by, as new innovation comes… it’s important to make sure that all departments are moving forward with skills to match that integration.

[47:09] Ken talks about how agencies can sometimes be slow with changes due to the levels of communication that projects have to pass through.

[48:17] Bob talks about how typically in agencies, making changes takes several steps for approval and is a slow process. How can you shore up those processes and use technology to integrate?

[49:36] Ken asks Bob what 2021 looks like for agencies- what should agencies look at adapting?

[50:06] Bob says that 2021 will be a great year for agencies- with more people buying online and using ecommerce and that will only increase. He predicts new startups in 2021 and says that it is MORE important now than ever to move towards becoming a media company instead of just an agency.

Facebook is going to go through some major changes- Facebook is saturated with advertising, so we’re going to see a big migration onto alternative platforms. Ask yourself- “If Facebook went away and I didn’t have to depend on it at all in 2021, what would I replace it with?”

[53:10] Brad is focusing on 2 things in the New Year. What is making us money and what is making my client money?

[55:37] Ken adds that agencies have to get more efficient with the way they produce products. Expand beyond believing that your product is just your service. Also, get into the 21st century! Tech is here to stay, so move forward into that instead of sticking with traditional models and systems- this will make it that much easier to adapt and pivot.

[57:50] Ken predicts big changes in the ecommerce world- Facebook ads alone will be disrupted and leave many clients to figure out something different- get ahead of that curve and focus on working with clients to show them other ways of selling their products.

View Details

Summary:

The process of communicating with clients can be a tricky one to maneuver even in the best of times. Today’s episode focuses on experiences with new personalities (sometimes bad) entering on the client side. How do you deal with them? What are the guidelines you use? What are some strategies to win people over? How can you create an environment where your team feels supported and encouraged, while dialing down the client gossip that can create a toxic work environment? How can you create the BEST value for your clients, regardless of their lack of planning or insight? Stay tuned!

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Demonstrate the VALUE you add to any business relationship- ask yourself “How can we win them over even with the doubt and baggage they bring to the table?”
When you’re meeting with a prospective client: #1 Do your research & #2 Listen! Keep your focus on who the client is and what their needs are, then fill in those gaps with the value that you can bring to the table.
If you have to bring a problem or issue to someone, always bring potential solutions as well! If you only bring problems, you aren’t relieving your client’s burdens, you are making them heavier.

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[2:48] Brad introduces this weeks’ topic- starting with how to deal with a new client or new person that is in communication with a client and doesn’t work well with the team. The process of winning them over can be challenging.

[3:27] Ken talks about how the process can be difficult because the emotional health of people is all over the board to begin with- there can be an attitude of defensiveness from clients when they communicate with agencies because they feel threatened.

[5:17] Brad says that for some companies the idea of having a digital marketing agency come in can be very challenging against what they’ve done in the past- How can you win them over when they come into the relationship with a lot of doubt or baggage?

[7:27] Brad talks about clients who are rude or work in a specific, difficult way. “Number one, that’s not us. They’re not that way because of you. They’re that way to everyone.” There is opportunity to celebrate that person and their role in those difficult situations.

7:41 Find your client’s super power and create value inside of that

[8:36] Brad says “We’re not here to win the battle, we’re going to win the war… and we’re going to show them that we can be trusted.”

[9:08] Bob brings the convo back around to marketing terms- 2 Tips for dealing with new clients or new situations. #1 Do Your Research- look them up on LinkedIn, pay attention to their work history, their school history, volunteer interests. #2 Listen, Just listen and allow their words and opinions inform the way that you will respond. Allow the connection as a human being to flourish and grow.

[11:29] Brad shares that having empathy for customers and clients is key- get to know them and figure out what their superpower is within that relationship.

[12:13] Bob asks about Ken and Metacake’s client relationship management- do other people than Bob Strachan (Ken’s business partner) get involved in new client relationships or do they try to keep Bob in that role?

[13:29] Brad talks about teams who complain about their clients and how difficult that can be to reel back in if your team has negative sentiments about a client.

[13:48] Ken says that he puts a lot of focus on not letting that client talk get out of hand. Venting can turn into negative energy which can turn to cynicism. Venting can turn into gossiping which can damage the team mindset.

[15:45] Ken continues, saying that with so many different types of personalities, it can be challenging to not feel threatened or create situations where you alert people’s defenses. There are relational tactics that work but Ken asks, what happens if these tactics dont’t work?

[17:21] Brad suggests that approaching the conversation with “Here’s some things that can make the relationship better for us- how can we help you at the same time?”

[18:36] Brad says that Step 1 is to be clear with what could be helpful in improving your relationship. The setting is important here as well, making them feel like it’s more than just a business meeting.

[21:49] Brad shares about a client who is domineering and has a “my way or the highway” personality type. It can be intimidating for the team to get on calls with this client because of that personality type. The drive is showing clients like this that you are even smarter and even more of an expert than they are- when they lean in to challenge, you need to lean back with the same energy so that client feels heard and seen and supported.

[23:25] Bob adds that making a person feel valued in the relationship is key. “Am I worth anything in this situation?” is the question people will be asking themselves- speak to that question based on the personality type that you’re working with. This will help you engage in those confrontations in a more professional and kind way.

[26:12] Bob gives a for instance of how this preparation can help to define processes and create boundaries for your clients. This will be proactive in dealing with certain personalities that may create friction.

[27:00] Ken says that having these processes in place means that you can enforce those boundaries for yourself and for your team.

[28:45] Brad says that if you do feel the need to switch your point person so that the client has an easier time communicating, bring that person into meetings first and make sure they will be the right replacement.

[31:41] Bob asks if the guys have ever had clients who were simply too difficult to deal with- if so how did they deal with it?

[32:41] Ken says they have a current client like this, who is not receptive to communication or connection. There are also situations where people are prone to drama and making decisions out of emotion. He suggests bringing solutions to the problem when you bring up the problem.

[35:15] Brad says that it's also a good option to get a personal line of communication- or when you first meet with them, mention that xyz is the way you’d address issues, but also ask if that works for them or if they have another preference. This is a great way to be proactive about issues that may arise.

[36:05] Ken talks about how the mindset is that your clients are thinking about you all the time- either your relationship or the project you’re working on. In reality, there is an awareness you have to have of where you fit into their work life.

[38:32] Brad makes another suggestion- bring in people that you trust to talk about a situation with a client.

[39:27] Brad shares a story from school and says “You can’t get connected, you can’t expect that people are going to be nice.” All you can control is the way that you respond.

[41:23] Bob asks about managing personal relationships that turn into professional relationships, and whether they move quickly and less carefully because they’re personal connections.

[44:56] Ken asks 1 final question- are there rules to who is privy to the details of your engagement? It can be an important detail to consider- who will know the ins and outs of the engagement and who will have the authority to question or reroute that?

[46:39] Brad says that this is an important detail to consider- if people aren’t on the same page, as if these people aren’t privy to the boundaries of the project, they can start asking for things that are out of scope and not possible.

[49:59] Ken adds that sometimes there can be an assumption that if anyone on the client team asks you a question, you give them an answer. But it’s important to know how the levels of information are passed down and who is in on what parts of the project.

[51:09] Brad throws out a popular quote here with Agency Exposed- “ Systems and processes run your business, and people run the systems and processes.”

View Details

Summary:

Today’s episode focuses on the new landscape of business in Q4 of 2020. This week’s episode should be extra good because we did it twice (only pressed record the second time… womp, womp). We dig into this year’s sales holiday as customers and as agency owners, talking about the mindset of clients when creating campaigns as what we can take away as Agency leaders. How can you use the same consumer psychology to grow your business?

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

What does YOUR agency have to sell? “The product that agencies have is experience and knowledge.” Use this to create products that expand beyond just service.
We’re all looking to increase our reach to new customers and clients. Ask yourself: How do you- as an agency- create products that create value, are economical, and are effective? This will change from business to business, but maintaining focus on those 3 things will help guide you in the right direction.
Agencies may not be launching huge product sales during Q4, but they do have value to offer new and existing clients. Shift your focus from direct ROI to making your investment back over time.

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[2:08] Bob starts out this episode with Black Friday results- in-store shopping dropped by 52% this year, and he asks the guys about their thoughts on results from their ecommerce clients.

[3:27] Brad says that most of their clients are in healthcare technology, so there wasn’t a huge amount of buzz surrounding a lot of their preparation. He asks Bob and Ken about their clients and prep time for Black Friday.

[4:53] Ken says that because their clients are all ecommerce, the Wednesday before Thanksgiving is always the busiest day of the year. He says that most of his clients think about Black Friday as a season rather than one event.

Customer’s inhibitions to buy are down on Black Friday, so that’s really a great time to acquire new customers rather than focus purely on the sales.
Discounting can help to lower the customer’s trust barrier.

[8:04] Brad talks about the concept of doorbusters in retail and says that it’s not such a big deal online- really there is no point in it.

[9:36] Ken says that doorbusters aren’t a thing in ecommerce, as ecommerce comes from a very different model. Acquiring new customers and creating a relationship over time means that you’re taking a loss upfront and making that value back over time. So the customer lifetime value is the true focus.

[11:02] Brad asks Ken if brands use Cyber Monday and Black Friday as a way to acquire new customers, even if to just keep their eye on them.

[11:35] Ken talks about getting customers to buy your brand and not just your products.

[12:03] Bob talks about a friend who has an ecommerce startup that is a very specific niche: kayak fisherman. He collected 5,000 entries for a giveaway and then used that list to send out ads for Black Friday and Cyber Monday.

[14:10] Ken talks about the real opportunity- new customer acquisition. If you do this correctly, you can level up your Q4 exponentially.

[15:17] Brad asks if these buying holidays are ever going to go away.

[15:45] Bob says that he often thinks about this and hopes that one day it won’t be a thing. But in reality humans are humans and it’s in our nature to want to make money.

[16:07] Ken talks about how the shopping holidays have extended and the philosophies that have changed and shifted as newer models for ecommerce businesses have grown.

[17:40] Bob shares a story about modern competition for sales around this time.

[19:05] Brad shares that the Apple Store and Google Play saw more downloads of apps that ever in history- that is reflective of both the times we’re in and the shift of technology.

[20:00] Ken talks about coupon codes and how the bots have collected and shared coupons that you may not necessarily want them to have.

[21:50] Bob asks how agency owners can use shopping holidays to monetize their own agencies or businesses. When you sell services, how does that work?

[22:30] Ken talks about the products and services that Metacake offers.

Brad suggests a package for new clients that could help them with their ecommerce.

[24:32] Ken talks about discounting services in terms of his business, that ultimately it would be an approach to either acquire bad customers or go out of business fast. The question is really how do you create products and services that are replicable, have less cost and acquire the right kind of people.

[26:46] Ken talks about the products that Metacake sells, and says that the higher cost items have served to create new clients.

[28:05] Ken: “The product that agencies have is experience and knowledge.”

[28:45] Bob talks about WHY the guys have the podcast and how that passion drives their work as agency owners. “We also really believe that giving value is going to pay back at some point.”

[29:15] Bob asks The Guys about their plans for 2021 and how they see the landscape further shifting.

The Guys discuss the value of moving away from a direct ROI mindset, Bob suggests a focus on investing in something that will pay dividends 3 or 6 months down the line. This can be difficult if you have a small staff and you’re serving clients as well. But finding that time and money for R&D in your agency is SO important.

[32:18] Brad and Ken discuss Ken’s visit to the mall on Black Friday.

[32:55] Ken shares that on Black Friday there was no one there basically. He saw firsthand that there is a massive impact due to the year’s events. Ultimately online sales for Black Friday weren’t what anyone expected, they didn’t blow previous sales holidays out of the water by any means. So that is a sign of less pressure for things to happen in a short window, spreading out campaigns and sales over time instead of pushed into one weekend or one day.

[34:49] Brad talks about WalMarts changing to distribution centers instead of stores. Whole Foods is a prime example of this, teaming up with Amazon as a small-scale distribution center.

[35:52] Ken talks about making a warehouse a place that you can come inside of and also buy things from. Inside of the mall, there are a lot of opportunities for fulfilling products.

[37:19] Bob proposes a try-on then order model for malls and other retail spaces that are becoming more antiquated.

[38:35] Ken says that it may eventually become a frustrating experience for customers because they want to take things home right away. The Guys discuss how supply chains and shipping companies are already seeing the compilations of this.

[39:26] Bob says that the experience that Amazon has provided of overnight shipping or quick 2-day shipping has now become the expectation across the board, so there is a big push for accommodating that 2-day window.

[43:09] Bob talks about the Tesla 18-wheeler and the guys discuss how distribution models are changing and shifting, with drones and driverless delivery becoming more and more popular as well as possible.

View Details

Summary:

In today’s episode Brad shares his experience being sick with Covid-19, giving some first-hand experience. He shares the complexities of recovering and isolating while also running an agency. We talk about areas of vulnerability in your business, the value of having trust in your team, and what he learned about rest while he was sick. We ask Brad a LOT of questions, from details about day to day business operations to his biggest takeaways coming out the other side.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Preparing your business for disruption means building a team and systems that will have your back.
You must affordably invest in creating redundancies in your business. This will allow you to experience less anxiety when life throws unexpected turns your way.
As businesses and as people, we have to find ways to stop living in fear. If we take anything from 2020, let it be an awareness of how powerful fear can be and how worthwhile it is to create awareness of it and not live in it.

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[1:05] Bob asks Brad about his experience with Covid so far, and Brad says that he must have caught in on a flight with little social distancing. He’s had 12 days of feeling really bad and it’s been very challenging to keep working while he’s sick.

[3:00] Brad says that because the immune system doesn’t know how to fight this virus, he’s experience a lot of symptoms over and over again. “The virus just goes around and just pokes at you, tries to find a vulnerability.”

He says that on day 5 he thought he was feeling better but woke up the next morning and yet another set of symptoms had presented. He did lost his taste and sense of smell.

[5:31] Bob asks how his family has been doing- Brad’s wife and daughter had no exposure to him and his son didn’t show any symptoms.

[6:58] Brad talks about how lucky he has been through this process, he realized he’s got a really good team because there were people that jumped in and took the ball from him as soon as he got sick. He said they made a point to talk every day and then by early afternoon he would be exhausted and had no way of predicting when he would need to rest. He experienced more exhaustion than he’s ever experienced!

[8:06] Brad “I think we just have to be prepared that you have to really prepare your business so that you as a business owner don’t need to be there every hour to run it… When you find yourself in this situation where… you actually can’t participate, then you really realize what you have and what you don’t have, who can actually support you.”

[9:15] Ken talks about how emergencies like this truly reveal truths about the state of your business. “What happens when some of your key people or some of your key systems go down?”

[10:35] Ken asks if Brad found it a significant challenge to his company.

[10:41] Brad says that he had a handful of clients who experienced being sick with Covid earlier this year and they had a lot of sympathy and understanding for what he was going through. He says the experience has taught him to focus on working to “affordably create redundancies” in the rest of his business in the future.

[13:11] Ken asks Brad what some of those redundancies might be.

[13:22] Brad says his thought have included extra hires along with team building and working to manage specific clients more as a team versus a single person being a key point of contact. He shares that creating communication redundancies and having transparency in the area of communication is key as well.

[14:50] Ken talks about the different areas of redundancy; communication systems internally and externally, roles and responsibilities inside and outside the team.

[16:01] Bob asks Brad if there were things that run a lot smoother in his business than he expected.

[16:38] Brad says that overall he was happy with the way his team dealt with things in his absence. There were 2 weeks that were particularly hard because he slept 18 hours per day; but his team always kept him in the loop about possible problems where he would be needed early on. They kept him informed and that helped him rest easier.

Creating more redundancy for his team is the focus now, so that if one of them does get sick he can step in or others can step in and help carry the weight.

[20:35] Ken asks if there is a weight that has lifted now that he knows he’s had it and survived.

[20:50] Brad says no, unfortunately. The difficulty of recovering and knowing how severe it could become for others has almost become heavier.

[23:28] Bob asks Brad if the fear got to him while he was sick, having known someone who passed away from Covid and knowing how bad it could get.

[25:00] Brad says that he monitored it very well and worked to build his immune system this year, so as long as he didn’t feel like it was in his lungs, he didn’t get too scared. The worst part for him was having a sinus infection on top of the exhaustion.

[26:45] Bob asks if having Covid-19 has changed his perspective.

[26:50] Brad says that it was weird that no one with him got it as well- he’s worn a mask everywhere and been very diligent, and somehow he still got it. “I think you gotta go about your life, trying not to worry about it because it’s really a statistic at this point, and you have to just do what you think is right for you and what you feel is right. If the most defense you have is social distancing and wearing a mask then do it.”

“If I can wear a mask, even though I don’t need to now, if I can bring some peace to somebody that they feel more secure because I have my mask on, then why wouldn’t I do that?”

[29:49] Bob shares that when a vaccine is available, he won’t be one fo the first to rush in and get it. But eventually once it’s been proven effective on a larger scale he’ll feel more comfortable.

[31:00] Brad has a lot of hope that with 4 possible vaccines, things could become normal again. The most desperate will get it first, and will give us a good idea of what sort of side effects and symptoms it will create.

[32:00] The Guys discuss 2021 and what they expect, hope for, look forward to, etc.

[33:07] Ken shares that one of his hopes is that we become more aware of how powerful fear is in our society and that we become more aware of it. He talks about the opportunities that have been created during this time and how he’s worked towards plugging Metacake into those needs. For those businesses that have transitioned to working from home, how has that impacted your business financially? How have onboarding and integration worked for new hires during this time? Keeping people connected has become a huge focus and has required a lot of intentionality.

[38:31] Brad talks about how after a war, typically our country has done well and thrived. There is unity, there is a readiness to work and get things back on track. He predicts an explosion of business growth and general growth overall in 2021, and says it’s possible that we may see more of a recession 3 or 4 years from now. By summer 2021, a lot of our questions will be answered.

[40:53] Ken says that figuring out how to diversify to create redundancies to mitigate potential disruption is a great place to be right now. This year has been a great year to reveal those truths and help you pinpoint how to intentionally move forward.

[42:15] Bob is already thinking about 2021, about being ready to take the year on with plans of jumping into a “new normal” and readying your business for that process. Ecommerce is the future, and so aligning your business with that is the way to go!

View Details

Summary:

In today’s episode we break down the process of selling creative services. How you not only make the initial sale, but sell the concepts as well. We share experiences with past clients, challenges we’ve met along the way, and strategies to overcome those challenges. Helping your client think practically and objectively about something that is potentially so tied to emotion is the key. And having a clear process on how you walk someone through this in a consistent way that is profitable is even more important!

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Your brand is NOT your logo or your name, but the values you build into those things. Foundational, should be obvious, but important to remember.
The more you can remove subjectivity, the more you can bring clarity. When pitching strategy and concepts to your client, back every decision up with research. Let them know that you care about who their customer is and how their brand will bring value to those individuals.
Create a process that consistently produces creative success. It must create results in a consistent way and ensure you’re profitable. Consider reverse engineering the process of a client, especially if they are not sure how they go to their success. This will reveal tactics you can use in the future, and help further define that client’s strategy for the future.

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[1:53] Brad introduces this week’s episode- we’re talking about selling creative to your clients. That’s creative services, not just sales. “I’m talking about selling the creative strategy to your clients- how do you get them to see the vision?”

Communicating your creative strategy to clients can be challenging, because so much of creative is subjective and opinion-based.

[3:15] Bob asks Brad for his insight into this topic, he’s the Brand Guy.

[3:54] Brad reflects on the fact that his parent’s generation don’t care as much about the brand, and it’s an interesting difference. “There’s people in that age and demographic who don’t seem to care as much about the brand… they don’t see it almost. They don’t see the packaging of the product. They don’t see the way it’s positioned very well.”

He talks about products (and brands) that don’t have a unique selling proposition, saying they don’t shine when compared to other products. There are even brands who aren’t that much better, product-wise, but shine due to their brand recognition.

[5:00] Ken talks about how oftentimes, building your brand is the only competitive advantage you have. He asks Brad “How does the creative connect to brand, in your mind?”

[5:27] Brad responds. It depends on your customer. When you’re working with a client who’s brand has been established for many years and they’re protective of it- that’s when you know the guardrails and how to sell to them. But if you’re working with a younger client who’s brand isn’t as solid, you know there’s going to be more of an uphill battle.

[6:25] Bob says that you’ve got to be the one that brings clarity to your client- “The sales process is to convince them that you can take it to the next level that will result in higher market shares and higher conversions and sales.

He talks about other factors that can complicate the sale- if the brand is older but outdated and in need of a refresh, but the client is attached to the name or the vision and won’t budge on creative changes. That is an opportunity to speak with clarity to them about their brand and the vision for their future.

[8:10] Brad: “Your brand isn’t your logo or your name, right? It’s the values you put into those, the name and the identity and how you communicate those values.”

Nike spent $30 for their logo, and their brand hasn’t diminished because of that- their success is built on the values they bring to the table and how they add value to the lives of their customers.

[9:28] Ken calls out the aspiration factor, saying it’s encouraging to see things from Nike. “If you can help your customer see themselves where they want to be, then that’s powerful.”

[10:00] Brad shares that sometimes startups have a great product but don’t think about who their customers are, which makes it difficult to position a brand to everyone. He talks about walking through that process with clients, saying they outline brand guardrails before even beginning the creative process. Including the client in that process and introducing them to the strategy is key to success in that process.

[12:00] Ken reflects on this process, saying it’s a very analytical approach to selling creative. You’re not selling just one thing, but selling every step along the way.

[12:50] Bob says that sharing data and research about your decisions with the clients along the way builds trust and buy-in from the clients.

It’s as simple as taking 3-5 concepts and doing some qualitative analytics.

[14:07] Brad “One of the more frustrating things about watching a creative pitch creative and there’s zero data and zero strategy in why they made the decisions they’ve made… They didn’t really understand the strategy going into it.”

[17:31] Bob says that the more you can remove subjectivity, the more you can bring clarity. “I think our job as an agency is to continue to remove subjectivity. Not that you remove the best art and design, but you remove the subjectivity so that everyone at the table can say Why do I need to trust you.”

[18:24] Ken reflects on sometimes being too connected with the creative you’re delivering. He talks about a recent experience with a client who moved a deadline forward a couple weeks and then weren’t appreciative when the team responded quickly and on time-

“Somehow we need to protect ourselves from our source of energy coming from the person you’re giving it to- we need to get our source of energy from other places… there are tactics and guardrails that you have to avoid being too connected to what you’re delivering.”

[20:42] Brad “I was taught early on that I had to provide a few different roads to the same destination. And so I never got too connected, I always could feel more objective.”

[23:00] Brad says that he and his team work with mood boards to get as close to those creative guard rails as possible.

[24:58] Bob shares that developing a good process can help your team get on board and not become too attached to the creative they’re producing.

[27:00] Brad says that sometimes the client CEO will take a bit of creative to an outsider for an opinion, and that outsider doesn’t know the strategy behind any of the decisions that have been made. And so it then becomes your job to wrangle that client back on board without the influence of outsiders who don’t know the brand the way that you do.

[32:30] Ken “Rarely should the person that created the thing be the one that’s pitching it or selling it to the client, because I think it’s most like a different skill set.” He stresses the importance of bringing clarity to the client when presenting creative, of having someone in that role who’s skill set matches that clarity.

[34:21] Bob reiterates “Try to remove subjectivity, have a clear process, and bring clarity to the client. So that your value is not another voice that says this is a good idea… Your job is to bring clarity and purpose and see how it fits into the overall strategy.”

[34:59] Brad talks about working with clients who have multiple stakeholders who don’t see eye to eye. You have multiple decision-makers with the clients and they all have pull, so pitching creative relies even more on clarity and vision.

[36:19] Ken switches topics to strategy. “How do you guys define strategy and how do you make sure that what you’re talking about is actually what someone is thinking? What is the thing you’re trying to do?”

[38:24] Brad says that really, strategy is the path to be able to market a product or service. It starts with a lot of understanding of what makes their product or services unique, a lot of research to define guardrails.

[39:32] Bob says strategy for him is based on 3 things: What’s the plan? And how are you going to do it? How are you going to measure that success?

Ken says it can also help to focus on the end result and work backwards from there. Then you begin to identify tactics that make up that path.

[41:54] Bob “If you’re going to sell strategy to a client and get them to give you money to execute on it, you have to provide very clear documentation of what’s the idea, what’s the end result, what are the steps you’re going to do? And what are the expected results? If you don’t do all those things, it’s not a strategy, it’s just an idea.”

Brad says that the measuring is a great addition- because even if things don’t work out as you predicted, you can show the client exactly what you can change and tweak to produce different results in the future.

[45:00] Ken says that often in ecommerce, he sees companies that are having massive success but aren’t really sure why. They’re doing things that seem to be working, but there’s no real strategy around it. “More often than not we’re reverse engineering a strategy so that this success that someone found isn’t by accident in the future.”

Brad shares the example of Adidas running a lot of ecommerce discounts and deals, which in the long term has diminished their brand. It’s important to keep strategy in mind when you’re trying something new! Even for big, established brands.

[51:13] Bob talks about how nebulous words like “strategy” and “brand” can come to mean nothing over time. “It just gets back to bringing clarity, and removing subjectivity.”

View Details

Summary:

Today’s guest is Ken’s business partner, Bob Strachan. He’s here to fill in for Brad and also to dive into the secrets behind what has made his business relationship so successful. It’s great to get along with a potential business partner, to have similar interests and produce a successful business. But there is so much more to it than having complementary skill sets. Listen in as we break down Bob’s journey from Hong Kong to Nashville, how the accumulation of knowledge and experience outside of Metacake has added to the success of his current business, what it’s really like to work with Ken Ott on a daily basis, and what the process of starting a partnership might look like in the beginning. Ken and Bob talk about how they have grown alongside each other as well as challenged each other over the years, covering everything from dealing with conflict to keeping their relationship strong and healthy.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

“Partnerships work when interests are aligned,” but let’s add: Purpose and Character. When Interests, Purpose, and Character are aligned, there is magic!
When you think you’ve found a great business partner, consider wading into the relationship slowly over time. Step into roles for a set period of time and make adjustments along the way. Allowing time to fine-tune the way you communicate will create more trust and an even more solid foundation.
“Don’t let your gifts take you where your character can’t keep you.” In other words, don’t let someone’s talents be the only reason that you choose to work with then. Ensure that there are signs of character alignment as well!

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About Our Guest:

Bob Strachan: Bob is a co-founder of Metacake, working together with Ken to lead their team as well as establish strong business partner relationships and help brands unlock massive revenue online.

Bob on LinkedIn
Work with Bob & Metacake

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:39] Bob H introduces Ken’s business partner and today’s guest- Bob Strachan.

[2:55] Bob S talks about how he grew up in Hong Kong, which was a British Colony until 1997, which is why there is a bit of a British tilt to his accent. He grew up in Hong Kong and then went to college at Sheffield University in England.

[5:33] Bob S continues, he got a job back in Hong Kong after graduation and started with a Boston based consulting company called The Monitor Group. He got a dual honors degree in molecular biology and biotechnology, but realized that the next step was a PhD and he really just wanted to get out into the world and create something.

[7:00] Bob S says that he sort of lucked into an industry and a company that did really well and worked for him. He found it fascinating, and there was so much growth so quickly that he learned a lot super fast. At that company, there wasn’t a typical path to consultancy other than being recruited from a US Ivy League school. But they saw potential in him and slowly he was able to get training in the US and expand his knowledge further.

[8:45] Bob S continues, saying that as he learned more and technology shifted so quickly in the late 90’s, he got really passionate about how tech was going to serve business. Growing up as a “third culture” kid, he honed a skill set based on communication skills, reading between the lines, and eventually sitting down with business people and figuring out what they need, what they’re capable of, and helping them bridge that gap.

[10:00] Bob H asks if growing up overseas gave him an advantage, seeing the world through a different lens.

[10:24] Bob S says “At its foundation, it gives you a sort of humility and respect… you come in with an open book and know that this is a new situation, I’ve been in these situations many, many, many times before, and I know that I don’t know what’s going on here, so I need to just have wide eyes and pay attention and listen.”

[11:09] Bob S talks about meeting his now wife in Hong Kong, who’s parents started an orphanage in Hong Kong, but they were from Colorado originally. By the early 2000’s they moved to rural western Colorado, and Bob says he loved it!

[13:27] Bob S continues, saying he met an author by chance who eventually hired him full time doing marketing and media for him. Fast forward to 2007, and he and Ken move to Tennessee in the same year, later starting Metacake in 2011.

[14:25] Ken shares that the 9 years of working with Bob have been a great ride and a huge learning experience. He talks about believing that they are here for a higher purpose, being stewards of good inside of the business together and helping businesses they serve to be the best they can be.

In the beginning, they weren’t specialized in Ecommerce- that happened in 2016- but living out that process with a business partner has been very cool.

[16:40] Bob H asks Ken and Bob about what the process of starting the business together was- how did they maneuver that dance?

[17:12] Bob S says that at the time he had his own consulting business, but in terms of a team he was just contracting things out to people. He had worked with Ken in the past and had a lot of respect for him, so they slowly began to do more projects together. As time passed, there were conversations around how they would bring the businesses together. Bob was on board pretty quickly, and it didn’t take him long to make the decision, but Ken said “What if we wade into this together?”

[18:45] Ken says that slowly wading into a business partnership together is smart, because it’s a decision that you can’t undo very easily. There’s blending that has to happen, and undoing that would likely burn some bridges.

[19:39] Bob S says that pulling partnerships apart is a huge relational burden as well.

[20:15] Ken “What we did, and what we’ve done with other businesses… we started by acting like business partners and set a period of time in place to try it.” Figuring out how to manage projects, how splits of work will go, etc, with the intention being that if it works out, you can bring the two sides together.

[21:48] Bob S shares that the biggest thing he had to wrestle with was that he was bringing more clients, money to the table. “So I had to go through the process of, do I think by partnering with Ken and sharing this, that there’s more?”

[22:47] Bob H says that he sees a dynamic and balance of risk seeking versus risk averse- having a balance of both works well.

[23:15] Bob S says that those roles can flip flop as well, Bob S can be more impulsive and Ken catches him to slow him down, and Ken can be a visionary that wants to go all-in on one thing down the line, and Bob steps in to course correct.

[23:50] Ken brings the convo to personality profiles and knowing your strengths and weaknesses.

[26:45] Ken talks about how a lot of different business ventures and partnerships allowed him to learn in a stable environment.

The idea of wading in comes from a slow and steady learning of the relationships.

[28:15] Bob S says it is really important to know what it is that you’re testing as you’re in the process of wading in, knowing what it is that you may run into and measuring your success over 6 months based on how well things are going.

[28:36] Bob H asks Bob S for advice for anyone who’s looking for a partner or just interested in going into business.

[29:03] Bob S says that he hears often that the partnership and he and Ken have is rare- and he appreciates it more and more as time goes on. “Often we get into partnerships because we respect the talents of a person… but I think what happens in partnerships that succeed is it becomes more of a respect for that person.”

[30:55] Bob S continues that ultimately if you’re going into a lifelong business proposition with someone, it has to be someone you can do life with, so thinking of it as a marriage of sorts isn’t too far off.

[31:15] Bob S “I think asking that question, is this person someone that I can do life with… is this someone that I can see being in business with over the long term beyond maybe just their capabilities and skills and what they bring to the table.”

[31:29] Bob H reflects on the fact that when you’re married for a long time and you hold it together for the long-haul, it doesn’t have anything to do with how they look or what they can bring to the table, but their soul.

Partner with someone who’s really good at LIFE and not just sales, or their business.

[33:00] Bob S says that if those things are important to you, if you want to be able to do life with someone and get along with someone for a long time as well as build this business relationship and get things done, the process of wading in is even more important and valuable.

[33:31] Bob S shares a great quote, “Don’t let your gifts take you where your character can’t keep you.” Life can have us wind up in a lot of places based on our gifts, but if our character can’t keep us there then you’re bound to have a fall. This applies to choosing a business partner as well.

[33:57] Bob H shares a quote as well- “How you do anything is how you do everything.”

[35:05] Bob S: “Partnerships work when interests are aligned,” which is true and can sustain relationships for a period of time. But Bob has 2 additional pieces that are important.

Having an awareness that sometimes you will have to put the other person's interests above your own. This has to be healthy!
Having a deeper philosophical alignment is also super important.

[36:55] Ken agrees, “I think 3 things have to be aligned, interest, purpose, and character.” If those things are aligned, you’ve got the potential for a great partnership.

[37:35] Ken adds that it’s also not great if you’re the same person- really your interests need to be varied, and ultimately complementary.

[39:08] Bob H asks Bob and Ken about conflict and being willing to have healthy conflict. “What does it look like when you disagree?”

[39:57] Ken says that he grew up in a place where conflict is more common, so he is a little more comfortable with conflict.

[41:15] Bob S shares that he is an Enneagream 9, always a peacemaker and looking for a peaceful way of resolving conflict. “Stability and Harmony are what gives me energy, so conflict is challenging.”

[41:48] Ken tells a story about how Bob came into work once and was super upset and down because he’d had a fight with his mom. Ken says that he argues with his mom regularly, it’s part of the way that they communicate, so that situation just exemplifies the different ways that they deal with conflict.

[42:15] Bob S says more often than not, there is a pretty quick alignment but on occasion there is real disagreement that will slowly burn over a few days, but those situations are rare.

[42:50] Ken agrees, and says that maturity has shrunk his ego over time and has allowed him to be able to handle conflict in a more peaceful way. “In general I care more about what the end result is than how it’s done or who does it.” So that keeps his tendency towards conflict in check as well.

[44:13] Ken shares that he and Bob both have separate mentors in their lives and coaches as well. They don’t have a “board” but have talked about it, and about how it will give objectivity to decisions as the business scales and grows.

[45:00] Ken talks about not allowing outside voices to get in between of you and your business partner- you need to own the relationship.

[46:30] Bob H asks what Bob is most grateful for within their company- what thing can he say is most beneficial about it?

[47:21] Bob S shares that he’s most grateful for the partnership, because it’s allowed him to get better about expressing his thoughts, desires, needs, ideas ahead of time. He’s gotten so much better with communication, and being honest about what he will fight for versus let go.

[48:42] Bob continues, saying that there will be days when things go wrong. One of the biggest benefits of a partner is to have someone that’s rooting for you during a hard day or hard life season.

He also says that the admiration has turned into being challenged to be the best he can be. The relationship has made him a much better person because he’s had a safe place to learn and grow and become new versions of himself.

[52:25] Ken mentions having Bob on again to dive deeper into how his life experience has created a lot of skills that fit his role at Metacake well. Traditionally he would be called a salesman but in reality it’s a much more subtle definition- “What you do is really just helping people add value with every conversation and help them make a decision.”

View Details

Summary:

Today share their thoughts and pain points around letting people go. How do we keep kindness in mind when letting go of someone who isn’t meeting expectations? How soon should you fire someone when you feel that they’re not a good fit? When the time comes to have the difficult conversation, what does that conversation realistically look like? And how can you change your processes to create a deeper trust with your and avoid firing being a surprise all together? These are all the big questions we tackle today- stay tuned!

Top 4 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

One basic rule- “Hire Slow, Fire Fast!” This means that you are intentional about the investment and selection of a new employee, and quick to do what has to be done when someone isn’t right and you’ve exhausted all options.
Your business needs to add massive value to your customers, and you can only do that if you have employees who add massive value to your business.
Don’t let fear of confrontation turn into passive aggression towards an employee who’s not measuring up. When it’s time, you have to act. Other employees will notice your inaction, and that lack of action can lead to loss of respect to you as a leader.
When hiring a new employee, be clear with what you need, and allow them to be involved in creating a role to fill those needs. This creates buy-in, and removes ambiguity.

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[1:03] Bob introduces this week’s episode- expressing that its a nerve-wracking one for him.

[1:25] Brad shares a statistic, that 50% of business owners have to fire someone eventually.

[1:47] Ken shares that he has had to fire people in the past, but that they try to avoid it at all costs.

[2:14] Brad says that knowing when to let somebody go is one of the most challenging things you can deal with in business.

[2:49] Brad continues, saying that layoffs or furloughs are a bit different because they are about a lack of business rather than the person individually.

[3:40] Ken reflects on the way that you deliver the message, trying to find a way that will help the person as much as possible.

[4:27] Brad pinpoints that the line is knowing when the employee is no longer helpful for the business. Many times they are like family, so it can be challenging to disconnect your emotions from the actual need in the business.

He talks about the impact that letting someone go can have on the entire team, how it impacts morale if other employees feel that parts of the process were unfair or unfounded.

[6:10] Brad asks Ken about his firing experiences.

[6:23] Ken: “Hire slow, fire fast.” It’s important to bring on the right people, and realize that those personalities really matter and have a large impact. One bad egg will spoil everything, so applying filters is very important to ensure a cultural fit.

It’s important that as an employee, you add more value than you take- just like the business itself!

[8:13] Ken “When we’ve had to fire people, we give them the benefit of the doubt over and over again.”

Part of the culture at Metacake is being able to talk to anyone about anything- talking to one another and being intentional about those feelings.
Team 1-on-1’s are a bi-weekly thing, so issues get addressed frequently and are micro-adjustments instead of things getting out of hand.
Typically there are a few talks with warnings and feedback

[11:42] Brad says that using a sort of checklist of “red flags” for when people aren’t living up to expectations or requirements will help you to use less emotion and more logic.

[12:40] Brad shares that he wants to be kind to people, “Sometimes it’s a real struggle, and I have let things go on longer than they should have.”

[13:30] Brad continues. “I try to figure out what is the core reason that I feel like this person isn’t working out and try to really identify those core reasons and then see if it can be resolved in meetings.”

If an employee doesn’t seem interested in growth, in working with you to improve themselves through coaching and feedback, then it’s probably important that you act on that rather than give them a year or two to make attempts at improvement.

[14:40] Bob shares his experience with firing- on both sides, as an employee and an employer. Asking yourself if the person is capable of fixing or changing issues is important, but placing a limit on your empathy is important as well.

[15:21] Bob “I always have to ask the fundamental question, is this person capable of doing what you’re expecting of them?”

This isn’t a judgemental thing, but a capability thing.

[16:01] Bob “I’ve let people stay on too long because I didn’t like the discomfort of my own emotions versus what was best for them and what was best for the company. So I was prioritizing my own comfort and my own discomfort rather than saying ‘What is best for this person.’”

Ultimately, letting someone stay when they’re not the right fit isn’t doing them any favors. In Bob’s experience, none of the people who he’s let go have not gone on to do great things- no one has ended up on the street or starving. So the fears of the worst happening never came to fruition, and now he sees that he can trust his instincts more.

[17:07] Bob “When something doesn’t work out, and you know it’s not going to work out, The person needs to be in a better fit... By not doing it, you’re holding back what’s best for that person.”

[18:19] Ken talks about how he attempts to make sure that things aren’t a true surprise when you have to let someone go. “You can’t let your own desire for comfort or your fear of discomfort stop you from doing what’s best for everybody.”

[19:49] Brad says that sometimes people are doing great and making money for the company, but are super disruptive to the culture or morale. And other times they just aren’t capable of doing the job. He talks about having benchmarks for signs that he needs to make a decision about someone’s employment.

“If I can replace an employee who’s a pretty significant role and within a week or two I don’t feel them being gone… like the business doesn’t feel them being gone… then I know they haven’t made themselves valuable for my business.

[21:40] Brad says another thing he’s struggled with is, when you fire someone do you walk them out the door? How do you figure out the timing, etc?

[22:30] Ken says that many mentors have suggested that when you let someone go, they go right then. No two weeks situation, etc. If they’re already not adding to the value of the business, there is no reason for them to have any motivation left once you give them a two weeks notice, etc. It’s best for you to just let them go right there.

[23:13] Brad says that it’s especially difficult if the employee is a higher-level person who holds a lot of “keys” in the business- you need a time frame to get those keys handed over beforehand.

[24:10] Ken shares that letting people go is never just a quick, straightforward process. You’ve got to create a “nice” transition for your employees and for the employee you’re letting go. Knowing what a transition looks like for any given role beforehand is super helpful.

[25:27] Brad shares that he let someone go and had a client asking about the person two weeks later. The client was a bit incredulous, asking why they weren’t told and Brad reflects on that circumstance, saying that it’s important to create that line of communication with the clients as well. Your employees have built those relationships, and if one of those links in the relational change is suddenly gone, it can have potential to harm the client relationship.

[27:00] Bob asks Brad about statistics- turnover within the agency world in particular. He asks if the creative aspect of things makes it more challenging to let someone go, because the reasons could be more nuanced instead of task-oriented.

[29:19] Bob continues, that creatives can be some of the hardest people to let go because the opinions and reasons can be very subjective.

[29:34] Ken agrees, saying that you have to own where those measurements are for yourself and your business. A startup vs a well-established business makes a big difference, as the needs can change as the company changes and grows.

[30:31] Brad stresses the importance of processes, so that employees can understand what to do in order to grow. Having a system in place where coaching and processes to learn to grow is SO helpful- because if you don’t, you’re insisting that they go off and do those things themselves. Which ultimately will take away from the energy they have to offer your business.

Brad says that often people WANT to be coached, to improve and add value, but aren’t clear on the processes or how to make that happen. If they understand the rules, the processes, and have the support to get there, most people will rise to it.

[32:39] Ken talks about how there are roles that are really clear, and some that are more ambiguous. And so when someone new comes in, letting them know exactly what their roles will be and how to measure their success, that’s being proactive and helping you to avoid difficulties down the line.

[33:55] Bob talks about studies in Europe that say that when you give an employee or a team the ability to craft their responsibility, they end up being much happier and have a sense of accomplishment. Rather than a list of responsibilities when you hire someone, give them a list and bullet points of what you need, and let them take part in figuring out how they can fill that need.

[35:42] Brad talks about how his tendency towards passive-aggression means that he often feels quick to judge.

[36:49] Brad continues, that if you start to notice yourself being critical of an employee, you need to dig deeper into that. “You should check yourself- you should say ‘Why am I critical? Is it a personality? Or am I not happy with their performance?”

[37:56] Bob says that he tends towards cynicism, or flippant criticism and identifying the worst in the situation as a passive-aggressive move.

[39:10] Brad talks about his fear with creatives, that if he lets someone go that the fire of creativity and passion will dim and make them think that this isn’t their career path, etc. Sometimes it’s just a matter of things not being a good fit, so it’s important to know where the line is between not being a good fit right now, versus just being a bad employee.

[40:16] Ken “Obviously there’s a passion in each person, and there’s a purpose or many purposes in people. So helping them get to that is how you get to those places where at some point that person is going to be thriving. And how do you get there?”

[41:00] Bob talks about our last guest speaker, a former employee of Brad who disappeared for a few years then came back with an incredible story and path that he’s created for himself.

[42:06] Bob talks about seeing the true skill set and giftings in everyone, and trying to call those out in your employees. “...if it doesn’t work out, that’s okay. Give them the freedom to fly.”

He reflects on being a business owner and having a “God Complex” and the responsibility of taking care of your employees.

[43:23] Bob: “You never will be, no matter how good you think you are, the provider and source of someone’s livelihood… on one level yes you write their paycheck, but at the end of the day the universe is very big, the people are very skilled, and they will land somewhere and they will be taken care of.”

[44:10] Ken talks about leadership and seeking true wisdom, having the wisdom to know when someone is hanging around too long, if the expectations are too high on one end or the other.

[45:17] Ken continues, saying that you have to be on a journey of leadership and seeking wisdom from mentors, because there is a lot hanging in the balance for a smaller company or startup especially.

The rest of your team will begin to lose respect for you when you let things go on for too long.

[47:40] Bob talks about when the process of letting someone go is really draining or unhealthy for you mentally, and what it might look like if you remove yourself from that process altogether.

[48:37] Ken mentions some great HR companies that can help you frame those conversations and lay out what it may look like to make a transition, and he has had great experiences with them.

Think through what your processes will look like for these situations- consider having someone to guide you through the legal protection aspect of things.

[50:15] Ken says that ultimately, when you do this you have to do it in love. As cheesy as that sounds, ask yourself “How can I serve this person through this?” Serving people doesn’t always mean making them happy!

View Details

Summary:

Ken shares the pressure he’s recently felt with several big projects that all require a lot of his time and attention AND they all demand to be the top priority. Brad shares similar experiences, and tells us about time blocking and time management to be intentional about his time. Bob challenges everyone to dig deeper into where the pressure really comes from- is it from others? From internal expectations? From past conditioning that no longer serves you? How can you as a business owner take steps to combat overwhelm, and allow your employees the same freedom and opportunities? Because after all, the last thing anyone wants is a burnt-out team. Listen in for tips on prioritizing your time and energy, keeping things in perspective, and suggestions about creating a more balanced life with work that feels purposeful and energizing instead of draining.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Control your focus - Block out your time using a weekly template according to how YOU should be spending your time! When you schedule blocks of time for hobbies, fitness and family as well as work tasks, those personal and self-care tasks begin to become of equal importance, as they should be.
Give from a full tank - Make time for your hobbies! Things that bring you joy and get your mind off of business. It can feel selfish, but is ultimately simply a smart business decision- the more rested and relaxed you are, the more effectively you will perform in your business. Like professional musicians and artists, you can’t just focus on one area and expect the best results.
Recruit help - be afraid to ASK FOR HELP. If you express your overwhelm with your team, they will likely be more than happy to help. Get outside input so that you gain perspective on the things that seem like they need your focus.

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[2:15] Bob shares the text messages sent between The Guys about topics for Agency Exposed- Ken shares that he’s been combatting the feeling of overwhelm and whether it’s worth it.

[2:21] Ken shares the Q4 pressure that’s built up and how difficult it’s been to balance work and home life. There is a MOUNTAIN of work that he feels that only he can do, but there is a real struggle to delegate.

[5:30] Bob says that Ken talks about setting boundaries a lot- when those things are pushed because of special projects or deadlines, how does that work?

[5:59] Ken: “The feeling of overwhelm for me happens when I feel like there’s way more things that.. If they don’t get done they’re gonna blow up.”

He shares that having an endless ToDo list isn’t what overwhelms him, but rather a large list of things that are top priority with deadlines. “Overwhelm comes from a lack of clarity in what you need to focus on.”

[9:21] Ken continues, divulging that oftentimes he feels that because he has a higher calling, being overwhelmed where he’s at doesn’t feel like an option. But those feelings come from a place of comparison, and it’s difficult to shake that.

[10:00] Brad shares that he often feels that he’s losing control of his time, that the giant task list becomes unending and he finds it difficult to accomplish things. So he’s turned to blocking off time on his calendar every week, the main tasks and the priorities taken into account, and this helps him to have time for putting out fires and use the blocked time to get things done.

[11:38] Ken shares about time blocking and adjusting it according to lifestyle changes. It helps him to be intentional, and shares that his current overwhelm is likely a product of that time blocking being misaligned with where his priorities are.

[12:45] Bob asks about sharing personal calendars with co-workers- all The Guys do it, but only to a certain extent, depending on who it is. He asks if this brings anxiety- having others knowing they can add meetings to your calendar and having the fear of time booking up before you control how it’s being spent. Bob says that his big issue recently has been making time in between Zoom meetings to actually get work done.

[13:40] Bob: “Many times Zoom calls are created where in-person meetings would not have been created… that could have been taken care of in an email string… instead of two or three Zoom calls to get to the point.”

[15:50] Brad talks about the smaller increments of time that are truly wasted in excessive Zoom calls/ bad time etiquette with Zoom meetings. “The reality is, is that we could have been getting something done in that 15 minutes…”

[16:14] Ken agrees, saying that having a hard stop time at the end of the day isn’t rude, it’s healthy! “I think it actually communicates… as long as you’re doing it out of legitimate reasons and you’re not being a jerk… it communicates boundaries implicitly.”

[16:35] Brad circles back to his calendar and how it does create anxiety for him to give others access to his calendar. “That’s why I block 2 weeks out because if I don’t block, then all of a sudden I’ve got calendar invites at times that I wanted to save…”

[17:05] Bob gives a practical takeaway “Go through every single day and just block out and put busy or whatever way you want to block out time, whether you know what you’re going to do that day or not, just make sure you block it so that you have free access to it first.”

[17:45] Ken suggests taking it a step further by creating an ideal week. Metacake’s team does this exercise together every year, and it helps to understand everyone’s time better.

If you know that you want to spend 20% of your time on sales, block off 20% of your time for sales. Better yet, when is the best time of day for you to be doing those sales activities? When are you most effective, and how can you use your energy in the places that will pack the most intentional punch?

[19:15] Brad suggests a calendar tool like Calendly, where you can offer your time slots for meetings and people can schedule them as they like.

[19:28] Bob adds that scheduling hobbies and self-care activities as well. Create a list of priorities that pop up on your calendar that are as important as every other activity.

[20:18] Ken “I think a lot of people try to separate work and life a lot of ways, and the truth is not that separate.” He talks about how his hobbies and keeping them high on the priority list are actually what allows him to perform on the work side. He says that sometimes he’s a little embarrassed to put it on his calendar, because if there is a ton of work to do it feels selfish. But working out fuels everything else, so it is important!

[21:24] Bob shares a recent interview he was listening to with Lenny Kravitz on NPR. Lifelong musicians that plan to share music for as long as possible- like Lenny Kravitz- view their body as something that has to be maintained and in peak condition.

[23:30] Brad shares that not giving yourself the time to relax and unwind results in burnout, exhaustion, and ultimately it’s a myth that you have to work hard 12 hours a day to be effective.

[24:28] Ken says that often it’s just trying to keep up the appearance of working hard that is exhausting, not the actual work that you do.

“Why- if you want to be a great business leader- why don’t you have to condition as hard as anyone else in any other field?”

[25:45] Bob talks about how often we look at athletes or dancers and assume that they’re dependent on they’re bodies… we assume that our bodies are divorced from our minds, when in reality they all feed into one another.

[27:30] Brad talks about how this conversation has challenged him a bit- creating a business that allows employees to take an hour and a half and exercise in the afternoon if it’s needed. How can you be a business owner that allows time for that and intentionally implements that.

[28:15] Ken “I expect people to work really hard for me...if they’re on our team, if they’re committed to something… I expect that they’re going to take care of themselves.”

He reflects on being aware that you need a break- sometimes people don’t realize that what they need is a break from everything, and there is an innate shame to that in a lot of cultures.

[30:29] Bob rewinds to the beginning of the conversation. As business owners, there can be a lot of shame in admitting that, in admitting that you’re stressed out. You’ve gotta be kind to yourself, and take care of how you compare yourself to others.

[32:30] Bob stresses that you are NOT your work, that your identity is not just inside of what your work is. And if you feel that way, then it’s time to reassess and do some self-reflection. “I am not my success today- that is not my identity.”

[33:27] Ken talks about reminding yourself that discomfort means you’re growing, that if there’s something that's painful that you’re going through, it means you’re persevering and learning more.

[35:16] Brad talks about the physical sensations that come along with overwhelm and anxiety. The attitude that carries you through that overwhelm makes all the difference, and it’s worthwhile to identify patterns in your energy levels and feelings of overwhelm.

[36:45] Bob says that personality has a lot to do with this as well- if you tend to be more aware of how you’re feeling, you’re going to be piqued for attentiveness to that feeling.

Tracing his feelings and digging under those feelings makes all the difference. Just being aware!

[38:46] Brad “We’re not machines, we’re emotional beings. And I think sometimes I forget about that.”

[41:39] Bob asks if Ken feels a bit more relaxed now that he’s talked about things. Definitely yes!

[43:08] Bob stresses that when you’re feeling this way, like you’re getting overwhelmed and burnt out- talk to someone. Reach out and ask for help. That is one of the powerful missions of Agency Exposed, to let people know that there is no shame in asking for help- this isn’t a sign of weakness.

[43:26] Brad says that when you mention this to your team, they are more willing to step forward and do what they can to lighten your load.

Often we internalize how we’re feeling and can trace it back to when we dropped the ball on taking care of ourselves. And because we can so clearly see how it seemingly fell apart, we don’t feel entitled to share the difficulty. “... the reality is no, I made myself feel that way because I didn’t create boundaries.”

[45:34] Bob “Life and experience is simply a reflection of what’s going on inside of you… I think that’s always something good to remember too.”

View Details

Summary:

In today’s episode we are diving into finding your WHY and how that’s the route to avoiding burnout. We talk about how we’ve maneuvered our professional experiences over time. We talk about burnout, innovation, the struggle to give yourself space for rest, maintaining boundaries between work and life, and so much more! With a reported 30-35% of professionals reporting job-related mental health concerns, how can YOU as an agency leader help to mitigate that burnout for yourself and create passionate, creative companies that serve not only your clients but your employees as well?

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Let go of the idea that you need to be available for your business 24/7. Burnout can come hard and fast when the lines between personal and professional time are blurred, so it’s important to guard your personal time well!
If you find it hard to turn off your work brain, step back and take a different perspective- often the pressure you feel to get something done is just a matter of a perspective shift.
Innovation can come in many forms- “Don’t be dependent on a platform or someone else’s technology for the success of your own business.” - Bob

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[1:04] Bob introduces this week’s episode- reflecting on the idea of maintaining passion for your agency life. With a high level of burnout in agency life, the concept of losing passion and excitement is commonplace. He asks for The Guy’s perspective.

[1:51] Brad talks about the experience of working until 9pm on a regular basis and how destructive that overwork can be if you’re not careful to create boundaries. The guilt that came along with leaving his team alone to work late at night or early in the morning- he often wonders now if it was worth the time away from his baby daughter. “What’s worth my time in life, cause that’s all I have.”

Reflects on the idea of being burnt out with the industry and the effort it takes to not blame the industry for his exhaustion. If you as an agency owner begin to feel like you just want to be an employee and not have to drive the charge constantly, then it’s likely time to draw some new boundary lines.

[3:54] Bob mentions a data point in a recent Digital Day article- 32% of agency professionals reported being worried about their mental health. In America, 30 to 35% are worried about their mental health directly related to work.

Gary Vaynerchucks’ agency has a room for relaxing and even handling panic attacks and other mental health issues- a specific space for employees to feel safe.

[4:58] Brad wonders is it a problem that the company has the room to begin with or should every business have something like this?

[6:00] Ken reflects on how it’s a sad state of the industry to see that businesses would need this.

[6:48] Brad shares his experience visiting Facebook HQ, they had a printmaking shop on campus to provide a break from the online work that employees were doing. This serves a different purpose from the pingpong tables and cool stuff that a new or prospective employee may see.

[8:02] Bob: “I think providing environments and cultures and trying to build cultures that are positive and you feel like you’re part of a team and you feel like you can be creative and productive.”

[9:29] Brad shares his experience of being a self-proclaimed workaholic in the past. Now he works usually 9 to 5 or 9 to 6, sometimes bringing work home, occasionally working on the weekend. But as he’s gotten older he’s realized that that is a certain point when he just stops caring about anything other than what he needs.

“To be really frank with you, I get to the point where I’m like this is my time and you’re not going to take it any longer because you’ve taken it my whole life. And I’m talking about me, I’ve done it to myself, I haven’t had good boundaries… So I’m almost militant about it at times. This is my time.”

[10:15] Ken says that you have to stop caring at a certain point- no matter what, I’m off. There will always be an emergency, but time is the only thing you can’t get back. So figuring out how to use your time correctly is so important.

The perspective we have on a situation will make it more or less urgent, and so if something is begging for your time it might just be your perspective.

[11:20] Bob brings the conversation back around to passion. “How do you remain passionate and how do you find that balance,” between the chaos of never having enough time and always battling for your time, while also being excited about life and your work and having a passionate pursuit of the way that you use your time.

Being fully present and in the moment at all times is so difficult, really impossible. So how do you find that balance?

[12:19] Brad says that his emotions and mental health drive the business, so when he’s not being proactive, the business isn’t being proactive. He says that there are times where he almost “checks out” for a little bit and it’s an absolute necessity to reset himself and have the ability to gauge what his priorities are.

He feels a lot of guilt when these moments come to pass, and it’s always a learning experience to trust that the business will keep going and do well. There’s a struggle against the industry standard of hustling and always racing to keep up, but time and time again that anxiety does not come to fruition and things work out.

[14:20] Bob talks about how our ego is what drives us to wake up every morning and take care of our families, it’s okay to be driven but there is a fine line there.

Refers to The Power of Why by Simon Sinek and talks about how it all comes back to your why. Personally and as a company.

[16:15] Brad talks about how we wield a lot of cultural power in the advertising industry, and so it’s even more important to have your Why at the forefront of what you’re doing, because it’s so easy to forget and let that mission get lost.

[16:37] Ken says that the stronger your Why the less that sinking feeling comes into play.

[17:32] Bob says that finding the thing that gives you energy and that you could do for free all day long- that should be built into your Why. He asks The Guys whether being employed or being the employer is better.

[18:00] Brad says that it would be difficult for him to work for someone else, because he knows the stability that comes with being in control of his day every day. Owning his business allows him to be the only one that dictates his time.

[19:03] Ken mentions the downside, that time is more fluid so it’s easier to let work creep into personal life. He doesn’t like having a schedule, so owning his business has always been the goal for him. Owning the business has become a big part of his creativity, and has morphed into his Why over time.

There is a cyclical nature to the way he moves through that creativity, and typically if he doesn’t plug into rest then that creativity can’t flow naturally.

[25:12] Ken continues: “I need that tension, and I don’t think there’s a perfect balance between it but I think that when I get in the weeds and it’s every day… it burns me out.”

[26:23] Bob talks about entrepreneurial personalities- typically you have to have a comfort level and interest in- even a propensity for- risk. Sometimes being an agency owner means you don’t get a paycheck for a couple months- you have to be willing and ready to accept that and do what it takes to drive that creativity forward in your agency.

[27:02] Brad says that working for others when he was young gave him a very solid understanding of business and how things work. You may want to be the next Mark Zuckerberg, but don’t discount the power of having mentors and learning about the business from the inside out. If you’re fresh out of college, this is a great place to start, to learn about working with and learning from people.

[28:30] Bob shares his pro/con list based on his work experience. He’s working for Five-by-Five agency in Brentwood, TN currently after running an agency for 17 years and not having a great ending to that. He was a victim of burnout.

Eventually the questions of passion and energy and creativity, truly acting from a place of service floated to the forefront of his brain, and he began to step back into the industry based on his newfound passions. But the decision of whether to work for someone else again or starting something new was the next step.

[32:10] Bob continues, saying that when it came down to it, he knew that working for someone else would make him miserable. But things slowly changed, and after working on contracting projects he found a place that fits his personality and gave him the freedom and control to do what he loves, while working for someone else.

[34:30] Brad asks what kept him from exiting the industry altogether after the crash and burn phase. Why not walk away?

[34:40] Bob responds that asking himself real questions about passion and drive and motivation is what kept him here, he really does have a passion for the industry, it just needed to be recalibrated.

[37:23] Ken talks about invention and innovation, how there is excitement when a client comes and asks you to do something just right outside of your wheelhouse. He talks about the cyclical nature of innovation, how it’s new to everyone at first then slowly it becomes commonplace and there is a bit of a lag with innovation again.

[39:15] Brad talks about how that innovation has diminished due to technology and the advances we’ve made. Making an effort to foster that innovation and creativity is worthwhile. It can be hard to find companies that are truly doing something different.

[41:16] Bob says “I think it comes down to getting yourself back to the core of what you do…”

[43:38] Bob continues “For me, that’s how I get up in the morning, I don’t see agency life and digital marketing and all this as just I’m going to put up Facebook ads and be the best… I try to see myself as an innovator and as a media professional. So that gives me the freedom to say ‘How can I integrate AI into data and stats reporting and Google analytics as a functionality of a product?’”

He shares a recent conversation- or argument- with someone about seeing yourself as a media company or a service agency. They see media company as Fox News or NBC, where Bob thinks of media company differently.

[45:15] Bob If you’re creating podcasts for someone and you sell and market yourself as a killer podcast producer, then you’re a production and media company.

47:15 “Don’t be dependent on a platform or someone else’s technology for the success of your own business.”

[48:11] Ken shares that it’s difficult to be intentional about this, because we don’t realize we’re doing it, we don’t realize we’re handing over the monopoly to these platforms like Facebook, which has a LOT of vulnerabilities when it comes to revenue streams. “I wonder if old school media is actually one of the ways to diversify.”

[49:50] Brad talks about the excitement of being in this era, that there are so many innovations and you can go in so many directions, multiple directions.

[51:15] Brad talks about feeling built for this industry, having worked in it since he was 17. Going through the ups and downs, the adjustments and changes, he’s still here and still excited to do what he’s doing. “I do think it’s about boundaries, it’s about knowing yourself and then how you work with those inside of this industry and find your niche… there are so many lanes you can choose…”

[52:11] Ken says it’s easy to lose sight of this, without even realizing it. “Its so easy to forget about being an innovator and become an order taker.”

[53:45] Ken continues “Overwhelm comes from a lack of focus… if you’re overwhelmed, if you’re burnt out, if your boundaries are being disrupted all the time by your work… what should your focus be on?”

[54:45] Brad suggests keeping a shortlist of a few things that stay at the top of your mind, and try to delegate interruption to others. Also: Find a hobby! One that is physical, active, and completely the opposite of what you do every day.

View Details

Summary:

Our guest CJ Casciotta is a well-known speaker, author, and Tedx alum. Today we talk about what it means to be weird and how embracing that can propel your business into a truly purposeful venture. Everything you do can be knocked off, but your unique weirdness, cannot. At college in Southern California during the birth of YouTube and the Twittersphere, CJ started out helping people develop their brands. Now he’s a brand consultant and has turned his specialities of leaning into purpose on himself- the result is Ringbeller Studios. Today’s episode is going to dig into CJ’s unique value proposition, how embracing his weirdness has turned business into passion, and how you can apply this same technique in your agency.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Lean into your own personal weirdness- the thing that makes you unique and stand out from the crowd is what is going to propel you life and in business (contrary to what we are taught growing up). Everyone is uniquely suited to serving others around them in an authentic way, and getting to that core means embracing your weirdness!
Don’t be ashamed of having fun doing what you do. When you’re creating content and driving creativity for your brand, it can sometimes come with a feeling of guilt or shame about having fun while you work. Resist that feeling. Having fun increases your creativity, helps you create a better product, and well… it’s fun, so enjoy it for goodness sakes!
Being weird isn’t a license to be obnoxious or unkind. Lean into your uniqueness with the goal of making the works better for everyone. Don’t live trying to PROVE something to the world. Live trying to GIVE something to the world.

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About our Guest:

CJ Casciotta: Founder of Ringbeller Studios, author of Get Weird, and overall brand-building specialist, CJ resides in Franklin, TN after moving from Southern California. He is the innovative brain behind educational and kid-driven content that does a great job of teaching skills that kids can use every day. His childhood love of the Muppets and Mr Rogers Neighborhood planted a deep desire to create positive change and teach kids kindness and creativity in a way that was palatable for them, meeting kids where they are at, both in the classroom and at home.

Check out more on CJ: https://www.cjcas.com/
Grab his book: Getweirdbook.com
Connect with him on LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/cjcasciotta

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[1:00] Brad introduces today’s guest, CJ Casciotta of RingBeller Studios. They met back in Santa Monica, CA several years ago and both wound up in Franklin, TN.

Quotes CJ’s book “What if we live as though we had something to give instead of as though we had something to prove?”
Brad asks CJ for a recap of the last 10 years since they last connected in California.

[5:15] CJ talks about his late college years when YouTube and Twitter first got big and how quickly that changed the landscape. He worked as a freelancer and media producer as a natural flow from college and eventually honed in on branding as a speciality.

“I loved getting into people’s message, their identity, what they cared about, what made their heartbeat as a company, as an organization… really going deeper and leaning into those conversations that I was already naturally having with clients.”
Now he’s transitioned over to a brand consultant, which feels strange because 10 years ago there was no such thing- but ultimately he is passionate about helping people find that core essential value that makes you unique and ultimately, makes you weird.
He started a podcast called “Sounds like a Movement” where they got to interview a lot of really interesting people all around the world who were using their brand and unique message in a really great way to make a difference in people’s lives.

[7:18] CJ continues: “Then at some point I kind of woke up and realized I like doing this, but what is my core purpose? What’s my unique point of contributing to the world? And I realized I wasn’t leaning into my personal weirdness…”

“What if I started doing all these things, teaching people what made them unique and how to express that. And how to make a positive impact on their community.”
He shares that with Ringbeller, he was able to merge his love of uniqueness and with the creativity he craved- rooted in a childhood love of the Muppets and Mr Rogers Neighborhood. They create educational, fun videos for kids.
Now the focus has been on scaling that in a sustainable way to help as many people as possible.
His puppets have been able to interview big names such as Ira Glass, Seth Godin, and Nicholas Smith.

[10:05] Bob talks about how The Guys have extensive careers in branding and creating unique visions for their clients, but often the hardest client is yourself when it comes to branding. A quote we mention often at Agency Exposed “The cobblers kids have no shoes.” He asks CJ about the process of moving from clients to himself as the focus.

[10:49] CJ: Says he will probably always be iterating what that looks like- but starts with knowing when to invite people in and what to invite them in on. Perspective can get narrow, so it’s important for him to know what ONLY he can do and maintaining that balance has been the struggle.

[11:45] Brad asks about CJ’s theme of “weirdness” in his business and why he values the weird so much in a business sense.

[12:15] CJ talks about the wakeup call of realizing that the need to fit in and measure up that we are taught as kids no longer applies- in reality, it’s what makes us stand apart from others that will bring real growth. This is truly the cornerstone for branding for any brand and business.

“On a personal level… I was a weird kid… I loved things that weren’t your standard idea of what it meant to be a kid.”

[13:55] CJ “The great danger is that we are educating our kids and conditioning kids to really neglect the thing that will help our society move forward and innovate and be the environment that we are all really long for and wish for.”

[15:27] Bob asks “Would you say that you’re taking the word unique… and figuring out what’s your unique selling proposition? Are you saying that, are you taking the word unique and exchanging it for weird, or would you define them as different things?”

[15:55] CJ responds that yes they are being used synonymously. “It drills down to how you position the business, how you create a team culture, etc.”

[16:46] Bob says that being “unique” or “different” is one thing, having a different angle to approach a sale. But truly being “weird” is a bit more vulnerable, a bit more human.

[17:31] CJ talks about another litmus test for weirdness versus your run of the mill unique selling proposition- it comes from your people, the humans and make up your organization- not just a product set apart from other products.

[18:18] Ken asks CJ for more info on his current business model. “Do you have clients? Do you create products?”

[18:31] CJ responds. V1 of an app for Ringbeller is in being built. They are building more interactivity and games for ways to turn kids into the media creators. This is being filtered through a school product but also a family product.

Creating a product that parents/teachers can trust with the social, emotional wellbeing of their child is the end goal. Especially in light of changes in the academia industry since Covid-19, there is tremendous opportunity here.

[20:46] Ken says that he feels this need, as a dad trying to help his kids through the delicate learning stages they’re at right now.

[21:23] CJ says that Ringbeller is focused more on soft skills, on social and emotional learning. There is a lot of content out there that focuses on these things, that are very touchy feely, but Ringbeller has created an archetype of an 8th grade boy that may not have resources or support, that would find these videos attention-grabbing and laugh-inducing, to then teach him important life skills that he needs.

The name Ringbeller comes from a Roald Dahl book, The BFG. A ringbeller is a really great dream that kids have.

[24:11] Bob asks CJ what his ringbeller is, what his Why is behind the company.

[24:32] CJ says “I don’t think Mr Rogers ever intended to have his successor… his entire career and purpose was about helping us be a little version of what he was teaching… I really do think it’s not going to take one sort of individual leader, it’s up to a lot of little micro decisions and choices from each of us to live out that message.”

[26:35] Ken talks about how businesses should and could change lives, some are explicitly in that space. Some awesome realization that don’t think they have a deep reason for existence to realize they do, then use that influence to help the world is THE way to go.

[28:15] Ken highlights the pain points of creating a brand for yourself after you’ve spent so much time creating brands for your clients. How do they start creating their own media that has a meaning and purpose?
[28:36] CJ says that for him, creating new content has always resulted in getting a new client along the way. It’s the one area where you don’t have the restrictions of your clients preferences. It might seem like playing, like too much fun to be work, but at the end of the day it is! It’s work and it’s investing in your brand and your vision.

[30:26] Ken can sympathize with this shame and guilt, as Metacake has created YouTube videos and books.

“I believe that you have to be intentional about exploring, and it’s kind of a never-ending thing… some people are born and they know their purpose but I think that’s rare.”

[32:25] Brad asks CJ: “How do you communicate about your business to your employees so that they understand what the big picture is and what you’re really there to do- what’s the ethos of the company?”
[33:00] CJ talks about being aware of the majority and minority micro culture that exist within every company. He gives the example of a brand he’s worked with, a young, creative, surfer kid-led company that constantly butted heads with their finance department. This was a great thing ultimately, as both play an important part of knowing the culture and maintaining the balance of authenticity.

“To safeguard against their creative culture going off the rails and being unproductive and unprofitable, they need to have a cultural minority sort of checking their balances so that they have a certain amount of weirdness and encourage a certain amount of weirdness.”
When an organization knows their culture, hands down, it makes things a lot easier.
“So if you are somebody that is in the cultural minority, you go, okay I am here to push back to a degree, but I know that I have chosen a role in an organization that values X versus Y and so at the end of the day I shouldn’t be frustrated and I shouldn’t be disenfranchised when they choose X over Y.”

[35:20] Brad asks CJ if a little bit of weirdness is necessary for the leaders to be able to get their employees to think outside of the box.

[35:22] CJ: There is a difference between a company that defers to whatever the competition is doing versus a set of people who are free to create their own path to differentiate from the competition. He says there needs to be a little bit of that rebellious attitude in this regard- sort of like “We’ve gotta carve our own path, zig where everyone else is zagging.”

[37:38] Brad: “Knowing what makes you weird is the best thing you can offer your art, your business, your friends, your family, and yourself. It’s the essence of creativity. It’s the stuff of movements and the hope of humanity.”- this is a quote from CJ’s book!

[38:42] CJ plugs his book and platform! Getweirdbook.com and ringbeller.com

[39:53] The Guys reflect on their talk with CJ. Bob says that the feeling of shame that we all struggle with when it comes to creativity and the fun that comes along with it is important to talk about. With so many voices speaking into the void about how to do YouTube the “right” way, how to motivate your clients to click, it’s easy to lose sight of everything that CJ is talking about.

[40:28] Ken talks about how marketing is contributing to the lack of mental health in the population SO much. For example, going into Q4 as an ecommerce brand doesn't mean stress is innate in everything you do. Shame-based marketing, super urgent marketing, etc are contributing to the detriment of people’s mental health. “I think marketers should realize that weight.”

[41:55] Ken: “In my opinion, I think finding purpose is the best business strategy. It’s the only one that people can’t rip off.”

As a society, we’re scared of being different. But that truly is the only thing that is going to make you stand out- your weirdness is the ultimate differentiator.

[44:37] Brad talks about the commercials that he’s seen since Covid-19 took over the news and culture. Instead of ads for cars, the ads were about human triumphing, the human spirit, and more of an emotional connection.

[46:41] Ken says that when you’re the leader of the company, when you’re developing the company ethos and pedigree that will be trained into your employees and passed on, at some point you have to come out about what your purpose is. If that doesn’t happen, it’s highly unlikely that your wins are going to have the impact that they could have otherwise.

[48:06] Brad talks about how weirdness may not do favors on Wall Street, but it’s what keeps people’s eyes on you and what truly draws value to you in the end.

[52:50] Bob says that speaking with Calvin Nowell of C’Mon Media is a great example of leaning into what makes you different and even weird, by some standards. It sets him apart and makes him memorable.

[53:46] Brad quotes CJ once again “What if we lived as though we had something to give instead of living as though we have something to prove.”

View Details

Summary:

Today we’re diving into the topic of selling yourself vs selling your business, and the challenges that come with that transition. Passing the baton of getting work done on to your team can be confusing for your clients if not done well, especially after you’ve been so involved up to that point. Whoever is the front face in the sales role needs to be intentional about how they transition relationships so that you can scale and utilize the full benefit of having a team. Today we share a few strategies we use to ease this transfer and create deep trust between your clients and your team, helping to shift the focus away from you and towards the services you can offer that will improve their business. Building intentionality around this means your business can scale beyond what you alone can offer- and you can bring deep, lasting value to your customers and clients.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Your company, your brand needs to have a unique pedigree. You can’t just be generic. The challenge lies in scaling the things that make people come to you: your beliefs, your talent, your systems, and even your personality in a way that gets results.
There are likely 1 or 2 things going wrong that work against this challenge: Either you need to step back and let go of your need or impulse to control, or you don’t have a team or quality of staff that clients trust.
As you manage this scale in an effective way, you begin to build notoriety and social equity in your company, and people will start referring to you instead of your company name. This is part of that intentionality and allows you to sell yourself (and your business/ the services you offer) in a very natural, authentic way.

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[1:30] The Guys reflect on 2020 so far, on how much resilience has been built up this year.

[1:45] Ken talks about being intentionally thankful for every season and challenge life presents him with, and how that has been an enormous challenge this year. While the year has been really great as far as business goes, as far as entrepreneurial growth is concerned. But then there has also been huge tragedy and enormous loss.

[2:10] Bob shares that he and Brad lost a friend due to Covid, and how that sadness has felt different this year.

[2:39] Brad talks about how a past boss often responded to his employees panic about work with “It’s just advertising,” and that statement is more poignant now than ever. The year has created very clear lines of perspective in that way.

[3:22] Bob brings the conversation around to the topic of today- that clients need to buy your business and not YOU. In many cases, when clients buy into your business because of you specifically, they get unnerved when you then pass off the project to a Marketing Manager.

[4:17] Bob asks: “How do you sell your business, i.e. make your business the focus, the entity that is valuable to your clients, and not sell yourself? Because you can’t be in on every call, doing the work yourself.”

[4:50] Brad responds: He has a few proactive things he does to prevent this from happening. Incorporating scale and growth into your sales pitch is incredibly important- learning to step out of the role and pass the baton efficiently.

[5:47] Ken says that starts with knowing what that looks like as well as being upfront and transparent about it. Most clients don’t want a one man show anyway, they want a team.

Brad asks clarifying questions- does Ken specifically say that the client won’t see him again? Not necessarily- but in his experience, bringing in people during calls and introducing people in that way. Help build those relationships before you hand them off.

[8:15] Brad says that oftentimes, he makes an effort to keep his mouth shut and lets other members of his team answer questions. In this way, the client begins looking to others for answers and input.

There are times when he can read between the lines and tell what the client is saying versus what they mean, while younger employees on his team can’t. And it takes a lot for him to hold back from that clarification and allow them to communicate and figure it out.

[10:54] Ken says that it is more convenient to intentionally and purposefully hand it over and explain who’s going to do what. “I think it’s more realistic to hand it over to your team, your team executes 90% of the work but you’re still involved from a check-in relational standpoint.”

[11:40] Bob says that it’s really about your process. Whether that be a kickoff meeting with the team, introduction to the business in a fun way… something that allows your employees to build trust from the start so the client can be solid in their decision.

[12:53] Ken clarifies- should you be completely out of the project?

[13:15] Brad says yes- if you can take a certain portion of your clients who don’t need your input. “I think there are certain clients that you will need to be involved with… You only have so much time. And so I do believe that if you can take a certain portion of your clients and hand them over to a smaller team… you can take that risk.”

This could also be a great way to build trust with your team, if you have space to take a small calculated risk of letting your team deal with smaller clients from beginning to end, that’s a great way to grow the competency of your team.

[14:50] Bob talks about how difficulty in doing this means you likely have 1 of 2 (or both) problems going on: Either you need to change your behavior as the business owner and reel in your desire to control everything, or you don’t have a team that is capable of handling that kind of responsibility/ doesn’t have the leadership skills that you need.

[15:35] Brad says that he often feels too available to clients, and gives an example that he answered a call for a client in the morning and it wound up turning his day upside down. They wound up looking really good at the end of the day, but now their expectation is that he will step in and make things happen for them.

[17:25] Ken says that having that availability to clients can really turn things around for him, and don’t allow him to fully be present for the really valuable role that he serves in the company. Having a partner that deals with clients face to face really helps mitigate some of that, and they’ve figured out a really great balance.

[18:19] Ken: “Delivering your product at an excellent level and growing your company often pull in different directions, and there’s a tension there and you have to figure it out.”

[18:45] Brad talks about how clients having access to him often gives him anxiety. But now at his age and with his experience he’s gotten better at handling those stressful moments. Helping the client feel confident in the fact that they can help and handle their “crisis” is powerful, and doing so intentionally without the anxiety is an art.

[20:45] Bob says that there really is something to Ken speaking about having a partner. There is power in selling your business and not yourself- there is tremendous value in differentiating the difference between being the face of the business and being the “person” that everyone calls.

Being a solo owner of a business makes it hard to step away from being “THE” person that clients go to. Just because you’re the face of the company doesn’t mean that you’re going to be the client’s main point person, and that doesn’t feel authentic unless you have the systems in place to manage that transition of trust and power.

[23:05] Ken says that if you don't have a business partner to help split those responsibilities, think about investing in other stakeholders or people under you that you feel safe investing in and handing power/influence over to- ultimately it comes down to team and your ability to delegate.

[23:50] Bob talks about the importance of having a really, really, really good product; a product that shines and attracts clients to you. Asks Brad- are they coming to you because they know YOU or because they’ve heard Anthem does great work?

[24:30] Ken says that sometimes people come to Metacake because of one thing that Ken said on a podcast or something else. “They built a company that scaled their belief, their systems, their personality in a way that gets results.” - and Dave Ramsey Solutions based in Franklin has done that well.

Started as a service business, one-on-one advice. It’s scaled through a variety of products, but “if you talk to anyone at that company, you feel the pedigree of Dave Ramsey, and he’s scaled that.”

[26:01] Ken continues, “Part of your uniqueness does come from… the founder because otherwise it’s not really genuine. That person, their soul… how they get results.”

This way even if a client does sign on because of Brad, they also like everyone else on the team and the processes because Brad has taught them how he gets results and the team is able to mimic that.

[27:15] Bob: “You begin to build notoriety and social equity in your company.”

[28:00] Ken: It’s vital that you figure out how to scale YOU. What’s your system? Whats your secret? How can you scale that in your organization?

[28:49] Bob shares that even Tim Cook at Apple always gives credit to his team for their new products, always “our team” or “we did this.”

In this way, the client/customer immediately begins transferring trust to the team and not just the figurehead.

[30:03] Brad speaks about another struggle he has. Often a client will ask to speak “in the next couple days” and his calendar is almost always full a few days out. Should he be taking the time to rearrange plans (work related and non-work related) or should he be saying “I’m the owner of the company, I have a lot of responsibilities so it’s going to be tougher to get on my schedule than somebody else.”

[32:04] Ken says that being honest is where the sweet spot is in trying to get to the healthiest relationship. Be honest and not arrogant, and it’s respectable. But the second there is arrogance it’s no longer okay. Offer them a “give”, tell them a coworker or team member can talk to them today/ take care of things at this moment, but if you need the owner’s time it’s going to be a couple of days.

[33:45] Bob talks about the personality differences in company owners/ managers. If you find that a client is a “now now now” person who jumps on everything as if it’s a fire, there will be more effort and difficulty in cutting those ties so be intentional about process.

Ultimately, you have to train the clients in the way that you do business. “If we’re going to work together, here are the ground rules.”

[35:00] Ken speaks on drawing intentional boundaries and how you need to be the long-term thinking leader. The majority of emergencies in the agency world are often just a result of poor planning, and aren’t really even emergencies.”

[37:40] Bob says that often there is opportunity to coach the client towards your way of doing things. This is training in a way, but also there is a level of empathy and intuition to recognize when it might make the relationship better.

[38:45] Ken says that some organizations thrive on chaos, and that may not work well for you. It’s difficult as an owner to say no to people sometimes, but if they’re going to cause more chaos in the process of doing business with you it’s important for you to draw that boundary line.

Shares that he overheard a marketer at an award show years ago talking about how burnt out they were because of a client, and how right after the award ceremony they had to go back to the office to finish something up. That sense of being overworked is so normalized in the agency world, it’s expected of you to take on that energy.

[42:53] Bob says “So much of what we do is subjective… digital marketing is still a new industry… we don’t always know what the results are gonna be.”

[43:32] Brad talks about how 30% of agencies are inventors, they’re creating new stuff an new ways of doing things. He asks Bob about his best practices regarding client involvement and interaction.

[44:00] Bob says that beginning an agency today would be a totally different experience for him, but that he always tried to hire good project managers that he could pass things off to.

[44:29] Brad asks if it’s helpful having someone a bit older to filter through clients, someone who is closer to your age.

[45:05] Bob says that he works with a lot of younger people who are lightyears ahead of where he was at that age, because the industry has changed so much.

Bringing things back around to practicality- you can invest in a team of people getting paid $40K or two really seasoned people that get paid more- there are options.

[46:11] Brad asks about having an assistant that could cover emails and be very helpful for you, but there are also instances where assistants can come off as rude or not quite on point. A gatekeeper in a way, but not necessarily a bulldog.

[47:00] Ken says having an assistant to be nice/kind but also assertive in the way they communicate is the sweet spot. He suggests that Brad look into hiring an assistant.

[48:10] Bob says he’d love to hear listeners thoughts on this! Please leave us some reviews and give us some feedback!

[48:50] Ken says that ultimately, you need to decide for yourself how involved you want to be with clients. And make a plan that will allow you to maintain the contact that is helpful and brings value while also focusing on other things that you are truly passionate about in the business. Be INTENTIONAL about it so that clients know what to expect from you.

[49:15] Brad adds that Anthem includes some details of this in their Master Agreement, including details on services, fees, who will be taking care of what in respect to different parts of the project. Sometimes clients will assume that your enthusiasm means you want to be involved in every step, so be sure to clarify that so they know what the boundaries are.

[49:49] Bob sums it up: “Don’t sell yourself unless you have the system in place to do it right.” He asks for examples of agencies that have done this really really well, who have sold the visionary and scaled in a great way.

The Guys mention Tesla and Ramsey Solutions, and talk about how difficult it was for Apple to make the transition to visionary after Steve Jobs passed. Tim Cook was always the one making things happen, and Steve was the visionary. But now things have shifted and it’s been a struggle.

[51:36] Ken: “Everyone I’ve ever talked to- mentors, coaches, other business owners that do this successfully- all say you need to have someone who’s Visionary, and you need to have someone who’s getting it done on an operations level.”

View Details

Summary:

Today we are talking about the challenges of learning to delegate effectively. We all know that freeing up our time to focus on the things that we specialize in is the ultimate way to be effective- nobody wants to be stuck doing things they hate, or things they don’t find purpose in or aren’t good at. But failure to delegate properly can result in burnout, and not just for you! It’s the opposite of snapping orders. When the leader is overwhelmed and uninspired, the whole team feels it. So listen in as we dissect what it really means to delegate effectively- from hiring a team with delegation in mind to creating a list of things that only YOU can do- and creating a team built on strong working relationships, efficiency, and trust.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

“If you want to grow, you’ve got to let it go.” While delegation can sometimes feel like taking a risk, it’s the only way to truly expand your business. Consider making a list of the things you SHOULD be doing, and work on firing yourself from the tasks that don’t align with that list over time.
What can only you do? Keep a list of “Only I Can Do” and work to teach, hire, and delegate the rest.
Delegation is the opposite of snapping orders. It’s an art that you must learn. It’s a critical skill of leadership. Delegation is about being self-aware, and teaching. It slows you down… at first. “You must slow down to scale up.” -Ancient Agency Exposed Proverb

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[5:00] Bob talks about delegation, and how necessary the skill of delegation is to being able to scale your agency effectively.

[6:00] Ken talks about how personality can impact your ability to delegate- hitting the sweet spot with the right person in the right role can be very challenging. “You have to delegate effectively in order to be able to scale something, in order to be good at life.”

You can’t build something that goes beyond you if you can’t delegate effectively.

[7:15] Brad talks about how delegating can feel like a risk, especially if you don’t trust the person to do as good a job as you can. Depends on the type of owner you are- some want to lead, to be visionaries and don’t care to get into the weeds, others begin a business as a jack of all trades and slowly grow. This second type can find delegating particularly difficult. “You’ve gotta let it go to grow!”

[9:37] Ken talks about what jobs you do, and slowly firing yourself from the things that others can do. Delegation speeds things up, but in the beginning it slows things down.

[10:40] Brad: Processes will aid in delegation, so those two should be thought about at the same time.

[11:30] Bob asks about the correlation between delegation and outsourcing vs hiring another employee, contractors, etc. Are they the same thing or not?

[11:45] Brad views it as taking people on your current team and looking at where their skillsets are, then teaching them those skills that will help relieve some of your responsibilities.

[12:21] Ken says that in some ways, outsourcing is a form of delegation. “A more defined way of delegating something is hiring a professional who already does that thing… the art of delegation and the personal growth attached to it doesn’t come from outsourcing…”

[14:00] Bob talks about working with high-level CEO’s who are masters of delegation. They’re able to take what feel like monumental tasks and set them up as a clear line of success.

[15:35] Ken talks about trust being the key factor in delegating. Step One is finding the right people- “If you want to scale, you have to hire people that are trustworthy and competent and capable of taking care of the role, the skill, the things that you trust them to do.”

[15:30] Brad gives 3 things that he struggles with in being able to delegate tasks to someone.

Will they do something incorrectly and cause a risk to our company?
Would I overwhelm them and can they handle that amount of work?
Is this thing something that I enjoy in the business? Grappling with the parts that take up time but others can do just as well...

[18:00] Bob talks about building a team with delegation in mind. Preparing in advance for who you will need in your organization and how their personalities will fit into the roles that you need filled.

[19:00] Ken says that you should ask yourself “Is there something going on in life/business that is capping my growth?”

Delegation is an art, and it’s an art that you need to pursue. And ultimately there will be some micromanaging in the beginning that requires practice to delegate.

[21:07] Brad says that often after you back off and let someone have the freedom to do things their way, they will do what you’ve asked in new ways.

[24:00] Ken talks about the idea of beginning with a virtual assistant, because it requires you to document a process for someone and then hand it off.

[25:40] Brad asks about how to decide what it is that you can delegate- starting with the concept of what only YOU can do. And whatever shakes out of that question is where you should begin to delegate.

[27:00] Ken talks about how sometimes, knowing a little bit about a lot of things can make it difficult to pare down that decision making process. And being under stress can create even more retraction from asking for help, just sinking inward and trying to take on the world on your own.

Having a mentor can help with that, can call it out and create a change in behavior patterns as it’s going on instead of in hindsight.

[29:30] Brad emphasizes that we’re not talking about the type of delegating that takes you out of the business completely, rather delegation that frees you up to focus more on the things that REALLY matter and that ONLY YOU can do.

Asks Bob how his relationship with delegation has changed through his business experience.

[29:50] Bob says that deciding what you want to delegate, what you should delegate, what’s on the table to delegate, etc helps to provide clarity. And ultimately, that process takes time.

In a corporate environment, it's easier to delegate because there are already resources, staff, and processes in place. Downside is that this can hamper creativity.
In an entrepreneurial environment, the processes have to be documented and created.
Ultimately, finding what you SHOULD and CAN do is different than what you COULD do. There’s a balance to find there, and following your passion is the best filter to apply.

[33:52] Ken asks Bob what the things are that he sticks with.

Big picture things and the way that the dots connect, that is where Bob brings the most passion and value to the day to day activities of his business.

[35:00] Ken asks Bob about the things he always delegates.

Bob: “Things I don’t like, things I’m not good at.” He says this part takes a lot of self-awareness. There are often people who can do things MUCH better than you can.
Bob says that it is equally as valid to outsource your stress!

[36:21] Ken talks again about how important it is to find people that you can trust to take over these tasks.

He talks about being excited by tasks that are challenging, by breaking down the things that we perceive as boundaries.
“These days my goal is to be delegating… anything that’s not specifically vision-related.”
Ken talks about the importance of having the right people in the right seats to make things run smoothly.

[40:30] Brad talks about the things he enjoys most that he tries to keep for himself- he’s very good at understanding human behaviors when it comes to decision-making in marketing and advertising. “I can see not just the beginning of the customer journey, but every way down the road… I’m always thinking a bit more forward.”

In asking lots of questions he can sometimes jump around in the process and sometimes create a mess, so learning to trust the people he’s hired to take care of those details in the right timing has been important.

[42:50] Ken talks about content creation and having the time and mental space to be that vision in your company. Recently Metacake has put out a lot of new content, and the key is “how do you scale something that is the soul of a brand?”

Delegating is important more than ever at this time! Not making space for doing what you’re best at means burnout and lower work quality.

[45:43] Bob asks about tools that The Guys have done to help with delegation.

[45:47] Ken says that his team uses the DISC personality test to help get to know your employees and delegate tasks accordingly.

[46:49] Brad says that the best tool is a human person with strong skills who can be trained and hold themselves accountable for moving things forward. Anthem uses Asana for project management.

[47:38] Ken talks about identifying people’s top 3 main roles when they start, the 3 areas that they’re going to work within. Also, in identifying your list of things to delegate out first, you can write it down EXACTLY as you would do it, and train someone else to do the same.

[50:29] Ken continues: “The only way you can scale as a company is if you scale organizationally.”

[51:54] Bob clarifies that we are not talking about the stereotypical boss/assistant role. Delegation is not about lesser-than people who are doing the dirty work, but people coming together to create a well-oiled organism.

“Whatever you’re passionate about, do that really well and don’t try to be somebody you’re not… integrate closely with people who are good at the things you’re not.”

[53:10] Ken talks about how delegation means truly allowing someone to be the authority in that place. Requiring check-ins frequently to get things done doesn’t work, and isn’t effective delegation.

View Details

Summary:

What is the ideal skill set, personality, and role for a client relations person? For some, this person is not a value add to the client, and merely manages communication. This can be a slippery slope. For others, there is no one dedicated to the client relationship. A healthy relationship is arguably the most important factor to success. And the skills and systems required to do this at scale are not easy to come by. Finding the right person for the role means not only the right experience, but also the right qualities and personality for the job. Can the person in this role lead with emotional intelligence and provide real value beyond just managing communication? Can they LEAD the client? What are some systems and processes to keep this on track? Finding a mutually beneficial balance and a relationship that is deeply rooted in trust sets you up for a long-term business relationship. This will not only benefit your clients, but also your team. Today we dissect all of this in our businesses.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Your Client Success Manager has to be a genuine value add to your organization- not just a traffic cop for communication.
- They are able to add genuine value to your clients by challenging them and helping them think through challenges and stay on track for success.
- Teaching clients leadership skills by example
Your Client Success Manager must be a leader. It’s safe to assume that people don’t come with genuine (or natural) leadership skills.
Don’t create or allow ongoing toxicity. Part of your client success system should include awareness of how the relationships are impacting your internal team members. Be aware of burnout. Be aware of boundaries. Have guidelines for behavior and follow them and enforce them kindly. And ultimately if a client is hurting your team, you must remove that client.

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[2:41] Bob: “This morning I thought we could talk about client services- when I say client services, maybe client relationships, things like that.. In order to scale properly and grow, you really have to have a strong client services plan in place… and the right people that do nothing but focus on client services.”

[3:28] Ken: “You can be really good at something but still have a really difficult time making people happy with what you do.”

[4:20] Bob talks about how having the right people in place to manage those client relationships means you’re also able to continue building relationships within that organization.

[5:24] Brad: “I think it comes down to being intentional with your business, as far as what exactly are the internal processes to make sure that you do what you can do to make sure your client is successful.”

[6:33] Ken speaks about what Metacake has put into place and found successful for both the company and their clients.

The person that manages the relationships has to be a genuine value add as far as experience, knowledge, know how, to really gain the trust of the prospect and the client through that process.
Nobody likes to be sold to, so the salesperson role really can’t be just a salesperson, but a success-oriented role.

[8:20] Bob shares his experience being that person as a single-owner business- there was confusion sometimes from clients when he wasn’t around because he was the one leading that charge to bring them in.

[9:06] Brad: “I’ve seen a lot of different approaches to client relationships and I see the account manager who comes in and sometimes they just don’t have the breadth of experience, so they literally can’t help their clients.”

[9:44] Ken: “For a lot of personalities, it frustrates them, because it slows them down.” He shares that in traditional larger agencies, there are a lot of those non-value added role that slow down processes.

[10:45] Brad: “What I’ve found is that they’re always going to seek the people that they know understand… that will for sure get it right… it also depends a lot on the age of the client as well.”

Clients with more experience will expect to work with someone that can speak their language, experience-wise. They don’t want someone working with them that they have to drag along, and you also don’t want to wind up as a commodity that isn’t bringing any real value to the brand.

[12:07] Ken talks about the importance of leadership skills when it comes to working with clients. Not only having industry experience, but also experience leading things in general. This should be a prerequisite, being able to lead and having the experience and knowledge to do so.

Everyone that works with the client and leads them in any way also has their hands on the project in some way. This has helped to prevent having one single person who does all the communicating.

[14:15] Bob asks: “Do you think you could find someone who doesn’t have the age and experience but still can be a really good client manager and can lead?” Short answer: Absolutely!

[15:00] Brad speaks about people who work inside of your team- if they have a deep-rooted interest in the business and how it functions, they can be a great candidate for client management.

Sometimes your client will make you very very upset, and you have to have restraint, so it takes the right personality to deal with stress in a healthy way and also lead effectively.

[15:38] Ken shares about finding the balance between being in relationship with your client while also detaching enough that you can maintain healthy boundaries and lead effectively.

[16:19] Brad shares one of the core goals and values in his company, that they want to make every client feel like a superstar.

Being friendly can be okay in some ways, “but I think you also have to make sure to know that this is a business relationship, and if they’re not happy with your services they’re going to go someplace else.”
When your client always feels like they’re being served, when objectives are being met and goals are being reached, there is more forgiveness when you make a mistake.

[17:43] Ken asks “Are there boundaries that you draw in your own mind… so that you don’t get too emotionally invested?”
[18:07] Bob responds that boundaries will be different for different personality types, and different clients will also impact the way you speak with them.

[20:05] Ken talks about how drawing those boundaries and keeping them up can be difficult, and client relationships “rarely continue forever.” Some client losses can feel like a really bad breakup!

There’s a human side of business and a practical side, and you have to find a way to balance those and keep them in balance.

[21:00] Brad talks about Anthem writing boundaries into contracts, and using them to bring that awareness back around if things get difficult. “In the end we try not to put too many roadblocks up…”

[22:35] Brad continues, talking about how just going above and beyond with projects isn’t enough to build that trust and enter into the ideal client relationship, where you can help them by bringing ideas and strategies “to get over a hurdle,” THAT is where the real service is.

Reading between the lines of their words and hearing their frustrations, then providing solutions or alternatives for those frustrations is the sweet spot of client service and building client relationships.
If you can get someone in your Client Services role that can do that, that is attuned to that sort of conversation- you’re set up for success.

[24:50] Ken talks about Metacake’s push to launch more coaching type of engagements with clients. “You’re more helping them overcome challenges and problems, and helping them make decisions for themselves, giving feedback, your experience, that kind of thing.”

Often that coaching will include bringing awareness to opposing goals clients may have, or goals that pull in opposite directions. Having the strategic eye on these things takes a certain personality type.
Breaking down OKR’s (Objectives and Key Results) forces you to have a really clear image of the objectives, then ties in the metrics and measurements for reaching that objective.

[27:57] Brad talks about working with clients who are not natural leaders, and being aware of that when developing a relationship with your client is very important.

[28:37] Bob asks The Guys for some practical tips for managing clients, and gives one example that he lives by. “Stop using words like ‘You guys should do this… you should. Why don’t we try this, Why don’t we try that,’” Get into the habit of saying “we” instead of “you” so that your client feels more like a partner and remembers that you’re on the same team.

[30:16] Brad agrees with Bob, and stresses the importance of making sure you’re still in the drivers seat and leading them effectively.

In emails with clients, he uses “Hey Team” to reinforce the team feeling
Oftentimes, the lead on your end will become somewhat disenfranchised with the client, leading to feelings of frustration and impediments in communication.

[31:53] Bob: “The reality is that you’re either the savior or the scapegoat. Sometimes you’re both, depending on the day… How do you navigate that?”

[32:26] Brad suggests having a couple of different personality types in the client communication, so that there is someone there who is more operations driven and is keeping everyone on track. So the other team member is freed up to manage the relationship more effectively.

[33:40] Ken talks about team makeup, what he calls positive tension between personality types. “If everyone just serves the client, no matter what, you’re going to go out of business.

Metacake has a project strategist who is the client hero, the client proponent and goals advocate. Then there is an operations project manager, who is in charge of keeping the client relationship really strong and whose primary worries don’t include budget and/or timeline.
When the team discusses a specific issue or email from the client, there are two opposite pulls as those two roles discuss options. That creates a positive tension that yields great results!
Tip 2: Everyone on the team that speaks to clients should be adding value, and be able to state what that value is from Metacake’s perspective.

[36:31] Bob brings the conversation back around to the current state of the world. With the typical “wining and dining” clients to win their contracts GONE, what is the equivalent of that today?

[37:05] Ken talks about his experience at a dinner with a very wealthy prospective client. He handed over his business card and the prospect immediately assumed their rates were high because of the feeling and look of the business card. So even in that experience, the situation was misleading and started things off on a non-value added note.

[39:56] Bob talks about how in some situations it wouldn’t be appropriate to bring up likes/dislikes of the clients. But if you’re going to invest in and do work for this client, do some research about them, what they like and are interested in. And keep those details in the back of your mind so that if an opportunity to strengthen that relationship comes up later on, you can act on it.

[40:35] Ken says that the goal is to create genuine interest and show that you really care, and do that in as many ways as you feel is appropriate. But “the intention and the discipline behind this is easy not to do.”

[41:15] Bob “I think that’s a good emotional intelligence piece” and working on knowing how to bring about those connections is a skill that takes time and intention to hone.

[42:05] Brad talks about hitting a sweet spot with a client in the relationship, when they start to pour back into you and lift you up to other prospective clients.

[43:02] Bob asks for some other tips from The Guys, any processes they have in place to evaluate the client relationships at the 1 month, 3 months, 6 months, 1 year mark.

[43:50] Ken speaks sending out questionnaires and incentivizing them with Amazon gift cards, etc. Often that doesn’t work and so Metacake has the client in and films them answering a series of questions about the brand and working with Metacake as a client. This is content creation at its best!

Asking the clients questions about how they’ve increased their brand awareness and achieved their goals with Metacake is powerful, and can be very inspiring to other brands and businesses who are looking to do the same thing.

[45:00] Bob talks about his company having open house type Christmas parties where client can briefly stop by and hang out. Sending gifts of food during the Holidays is great, but also think about New Years gifts, or Christmas in July.

[48:35] Ken, when talking about whether to include a client feature in your newsletter or something similar. “If we’re going to talk about a client, it’s gotta be giving them benefit and highlighting them. Here’s what they’re doing, it’s really great, they’ve got a great product, oh by the way we work with them and it was fun.”

[50:45] Brad mentions the difficulty of managing the relationship between the client and the person working directly with them. Having the emotional intelligence to know whether the role should be changed, or the management should be tweaked in some way.

[51:50] Ken talks about Metacake having Daily Stand Up meetings where those issues can be discussed with the team and have more objective input. This helps to combat that communication fatigue that can come with burnout, etc.

You have to assume that people aren’t great leaders, you have to assume that there is coaching and teaching involved in the client management process.

[53:30] Brad talks about past experiences of having client managers who leave every meeting in tears- measure personality types, measure emotional health at the given moment and swap people out as necessary!

[54:32] Ken says that at Metacake they’ve worked with “wolves” on the client side who are bullies and really have a negative impact on team health. It’s your job as the owner to step into that and make the tough decisions, have the tough conversations.

[55:31] Bob wraps up this episode, saying that in order to grow and scale you HAVE to invest in the client management/ client relationship side of things effectively.

View Details

Summary:

In today’s episode, we talk about how our home lives have shifted since Covid hit, highlighting the many positives and few negatives of working more from home with families right in the mix. We share our feelings of guilt when time is not spent wisely with family and business. We also discuss actionable ways that YOU can create a more balanced life, taking into account differences in personality and company culture. At a time when creating work/life boundaries is more important than ever, we explore that “perfect” balance for a more effective existence.

Top 4 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Working HARD is a good thing. It isn’t inherently bad… it’s noble, and currently it presents a unique situation where you can teach your kids and family the value of doing good work and also being present for real life.
“A life out of balance leads to burnout but a life in balance leads to fulfillment.” -Ancient Agency Exposed Proverb… If you don’t intentionally pursue a healthy balance between work and other areas of your life (and the more you love what you do, the harder this is), then you will be less effective and burn out. You must actively manage your work or it will manage you.
The way you use your time is WAY more important than the way you use your money- so be intentional, budget your time, be honest with yourself when you’re leading to burnout, and invest into the right things. This will help your brain find rest when you need it!
Find a passion to pursue OTHER THAN YOUR BUSINESS! That’s right- put your energy into something that truly rests your subconscious and allows you to recharge, preferably something totally unrelated to you making money.

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:35] Bob welcomes everyone to the show, and tells us about Brad’s cool ride for the day.

[3:00] Brad shares about his BMW motorcycle hobby, with a peek into his early first career as a BMX racer (just kidding! Kind of)

[3:50] Bob introduces this week’s episode, lamenting the joys and pains of parenthood. Finding balance between work and life is difficult always, but now more than ever there are challenges.

[4:50] Ken shares that he had a business before he had kids, and now there are still both going on. The stakes have gotten higher, being able to provide and participate in parenting while working from home during Corona.

[6:34] Brad asks “Do you ever feel guilt? That your kids are in the same house and that you’re ignoring them?”

[6:37] Ken: “It comes up for sure.”

[6:39] Brad shares the internal battle for himself, and expresses that with older children that are high-school aged, it’s tempting to hang out with them and spend time, because it’s different from when they were younger. Time together sounds fun and it can be hard to draw those boundaries while working from home.

[7:55] Ken shares that this experience is had by everybody with a family, but is exaggerated when you own a business. Work isn’t an inherently bad thing, and it’s important to demonstrate that for your kids.

[9:00] Bob says that it’s a great thing for kids to see their parent devoted to work for a set time during the day, there is a noble quality to demonstrating to children what that healthy balance looks like.

Bob’s 2 oldest kids are out the house, but he still has one at home. He reflects on the different ways of setting boundaries that he has experienced with each child.
“You have to set that culture in your work environment…” that will only demonstrate that to other people who want to suck you back into that.
Set boundaries that you respect, so other will respect them too. No work on weekends, out of the office by 5:30 or 6:00.

[11:30] Bob says that as a business owner, it can be tempting to hop back online after dinner and work until midnight. But you have to resist that, and know that it’s not what’s best for you or your work at that moment.

[12:00] Brad shares that in the early days, he was so passionate about his business that it became his hobby as well. But that has changed, as he has found other hobbies that he likes even more!

“I’m an introvert that pretends to be an extrovert sometimes, and so I’ve got to go away and get away from everything and just have clarity and clearness in my head.” This helps him recharge and have room for more balance.

[13:15] Ken says that one rule he uses is not looking at his phone when he wakes up.

He talks about the slippery slope of losing a good morning routine, how that results in increased anxiety and less peace of mind, less presence during tasks that require your full attention.

[15:28] Brad shares that when the Industrial revolution happened, overnight shifts and continuous work was suddenly an option, and it ruined our sleep patterns and circadian rhythms. Bright lights on 24/7 means no real natural markers for rest.

[17:25] Bob talks about creating intentional windows of memorable moments for your children, and the importance of that for your mental health as well as their development.

[19:02] Brad reflects on how sometimes as the “hard worker” mentality of working to support your family can create a martyr mindset, where the burnout you experience becomes a direct correlation with how much you’re sacrificing yourself for them.

The truth is, it's okay to recharge, it’s okay to rest. It’s necessary to be the best version of yourself that you can give.

[21:00] Ken reflects on the mental strength of mental muscle building of shutting off the worry that comes with agency ownership. Your mental energy is worth the exercise in self-control, and is something that gradually changes and increases over time.

[22:00] Brad shares that he schedules that down time and recharge time on a micro-scale as well. His most productive time of day is morning before noon, so the more difficult tasks that might require more brain power and/or mental energy aren’t best done in the afternoon.

[24:00] Ken shares that he uses a 5-minute Journal each day, morning and night, to reset his focus on reflect on the day from a perspective of gratitude instead of everything that went wrong. Incorporating this into your morning and nightime routine is a game-changer.

When planning your day, keep your long-term goals in mind and try to orient that day’s work around a specific part of your goals.

[26:00] Bob adds that delegating that time appropriately between family and work is important for everyone, but especially if you're trying to grow a business. Because as that business grows you’ll just have more and more content to suck up your energy. If you don’t know how to delegate early on, it WILL catch up with you!

[26:56] Ken: “How I use my time is hundreds of times more important than how I spend my money or how I use something else.” Learning to say no to things, to put your time into things that you only get one shot at when it’s important (like your family), and delegate energy for the work that you need to do- that is the true test of finding balance.

[30:00] Bob stresses the importance of engaging in your kids lives in ways that they will appreciate. Find their passions and engage in those with them, create those lasting memories with them and be intentional about it.

[32:35] Bob shares that different personality types mean that recharging and establishing new habits and routines will look different. For him, making time for himself and setting himself up for success means everything else around him sort of falls into place.

[37:06] Brad: “One of the things that I’ve learned is that I cannot live my life being reactive. I have to be proactive.” Timelines and pressures of agency life can make you feel like you’re just reactive all the time. Which leads to feeling out of control, or you feel the adrenaline rush and get hooked on it.

“I would challenge everybody, including myself, that the more you have a proactive balance the more you can dictate how you spend your time, instead of someone else dictating your time. “... it allows you to focus on what you want to do, because you might have too many things that you want to do.. But if you're inundated with fires all day you’ll just never get the time to be able to focus on things that are a higher priority.”

[38:51] Bob asks what some daily rituals are that Ken and Brad have that make a difference for them.

[42:26] Ken says that daily exercise is the most life changing thing for him. He’s also struggled to find a hobby that isn’t related to work in some way- that new hobby is road biking. It’s been a journey to learn more about it and pick it up, but the process of finding a new passion has been awesome.

“Your kids and your family as much as I love mine, they can’t be your hobby either… because you need something that rests your subconscious and allows you to recharge.”
He speaks on the importance of knowing the difference between something that truly gives you rest and something that just serves as a distraction.

[46:00] Bob speaks to the importance of time and making sure you’re living in the present. In reality, there is no such thing as “tomorrow”, but only this moment. By comparing yourself to past actions, future promises, outside pressures- you’re immediately walking away from the present moment.

[47:38] Ken: “The more you understand about your mind, the more that you can understand how to make it do what you want ti to do, and also create disciplines around yourself so that you don't have to worry about missing something or what might mess up in the future.”

[48:26] Brad reflects on his own anxieties and says that although his business is incredibly stable, he feels an overwhelming sense of things being on the verge of collapse at any moment. “Some of the things that helped me, what you mentioned is this idea of gratefulness and writing things down.. Being grateful helps you to relieve the anxiety of the things you can’t control.”

View Details

Summary:

In today’s episode, guest Calvin Nowell of agency C’Mon Creative is back to give us insight into his process for creating amazing, consistent, authentic content that he is well-known and recognized for. We talk content creation, repurposing pre-existing content to maximize results, and other agencies and businesses that are doing this really well for themselves already.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Become a THOUGHT LEADER in your industry through content creation. Even if your content isn’t getting the engagement you’re hoping for, consistently presenting interesting, educational content that is authentic and real will create a perception around you before anyone even has an encounter.
Let your personality shine- and be true to yourself. This is your unique take. This is what makes you different. Stop trying to mimic the things others do, and be YOU. People can sniff out inauthenticity quickly.
Just DO. Don’t overthink it. Don’t over-engineer it. Don’t be scared. Take the time to create a unique and valuable point of view and then GO and LEARN.

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About our Guest:

Calvin Nowell of Cmon Creative is a seasoned marketer, speaker, and niche influencer. He hosts a podcast called Show Up w/ Calvin Nowell which offers advice alongside industry-specific experts to help encourage people to reach their full potential. He’s an overall creative expert who assists in marketing strategies AND is also an accomplished musician, having worked with Grammy-winning artists Stevie Wonder, Tori Kelly, Michael W Smith, and more. He also provides branding, marketing management, and vocal expertise for those artists. We are so pumped to have him on the show today!

Check out Show Up w/Calvin Nowell on Stitcher
@cmoncreative on Instagram
http://cmon.agency/
@calvinnowell on FB, IG, Twitter

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:45] Bob introduces this week’s guest Calvin Nowell, the King of Content. He asks Calvin about the intentionality behind content creation for himself and his agency.

[2:08] Calvin talks about creating time for self-promotion and agency promotion. He talks about the payoff for consistency in that effort, saying that although his content may not have the engagement or numbers that he’s looking for, he does have people off the streets who have heard of him and know that he’s the marketing dude. There is an increased awareness around who he is and what he does.

He speaks about creating digital/ virtual portfolios of the work that his agency has done, and says that even with clients it’s more helpful sometimes to work on their content presentation and not as much the strategy, because people go to Instagram pages of businesses more often than websites these days.

[5:00] Ken asks Calvin what sort of personality he’s established when creating his content, and what Calvin’s philosophy is regarding that personality.

[5:15] Calvin talks about his agency Cmon Creative and how it was born from Calvin’s desire to live out loud- to be bold and true to himself. He wanted to be different and stand out from the rest, “I think just trying to be true to who we are creates a perception and people can like it or not like it as well.”

[6:20] Brad: “When you start designing content, what’s the mindset that you think your customer or viewer is going to be in when they look at your designs?”

[6:30] Calvin says the most important thing for him is not overthinking it. “I believe that just trying new things is a great place to start.”

“I think that’s the biggest hindrance, we used to overthink… this is 2020, this is social media, just get it out there.”

[8:14] Brad asks about utilizing content across as many platforms as possible.

[8:37] Calvin responds that on filming days, he has someone who is there purely to capture behind the scenes footage. He shares that oftentimes, people are more interested in the process behind the filming than the actual content that is being shared. People relate to that reality really positively.

[12:20] Calvin continues “I also try to practice what I preach. So if I tell client the importance of it, and I see that they’re not listening yet… I’ll show you better than I can tell you. This works and you need to create it, I created it for myself, I believe in it.” This gives credibility to advice he gives potential clients or partners.

[12:44] Brad asks what projects Calvin has worked on for clients that have yielded results that surprised him.

[13:11] Calvin shares a client who had fallen off the map for a while, were very big in 2005 and wanted to make a comeback. He advised that they invest in a new color palette for their instagram and other social platforms, so that anyone who came across their page could decided immediately whether they wanted to work with the company or not.

[15:00] Brad refers to a quote Calvin says often “Perception determines reception” and talks about the validity of that. It’s important to be consistent, to not overthink your content and just keep putting it out there, because like Gary Vee, people will be drawn to your determination and tenacity, they will see you as a true thought leader who is sharing their passion.

[16:45] Ken asks Calvin about his inspiration for content creation.

[16:57] Calvin “I’m competitive. I follow a lot of organizations that I like. And I just kind of say, Okay this is what they’re doing, how can we do this better?”

Quit overthinking it! Be true to yourself, be true to your brand and message, focus on helping people and creating.

[18:52] Bob asks who Calvin might say is doing all these things really really well?

[19:29] Brad says that he follows Red Pepper agency in Nashville does a great job, and Ken confirms.

[21:00] Ken “I tend to like businesses where their marketing is something you’d really want to watch.”

SmartMarketer is a brand that educates and shows how businesses work. Metacake has taken on part of that style, with teaching being a big part of the effort.

[22:20] Ken says that staying true to yourself, and allowing someone with strong opinions to be the thought leader in content creation.

[24:45] Ken continues that often we get stuck in the idea that our strengths and weaknesses are tied to our identity, and so we put ourselves inside of boxes that align with that, and before we know it, our identity isn’t our own but a collection of the things we’re good at.

Learning to allow seemingly unrelated parts of yourself to be together in one place is truly letting your personality shine, and so being true to that is the only way that hitting that “authenticity” sweet spot will produce great, impactful content.

[28:00] Calvin says that some agencies that he follows purely have what looks like a great culture, a great team that would be fun to work with.

[28:23] Calvin: “They playing field is leveled and everybody needs content, and everybody needs digital marketing. Everybody needs something online.”

In fact, the playing field is so level that you see big names and shows recording things on their iphones now, very much equipped with the same things.

[30:00] Brad brings the content back around to the question of repurposing content. He talks about using one set of footage to the highest degree, chopping up a script used in video production and using that new wording for a blog post. He asks Ken to share.

[33:00] Ken shares that he creates outlines and then reviews them with other people, who ask questions and help to flesh out the details and really massage it for the most that it’s worth.

When shooting footage for videos, they chop up those version and use shorter, punchier takes for ads on multiple platforms.
He set a goal a little less than 2 years ago that he wanted to get really good at video production, and although Metacake doesn’t offer it as a service, clients ask for input and help because of the work they’ve done internally.

[38:13] Calvin: “I think you just need to stay competitive… churches have done better content recently than agencies have…” You have to learn to make your agency a client!

[40:36] Bob asks about budget for agency marketing, and how much is allocated to this for the guys.

[41:09] Ken: “At least half of your marketing budget should be spent on internal marketing… we spend anywhere from 10 to 20% of revenue on marketing and content creation.”

He says that Metacake has 3 team members dedicated just to internal content (not full-time), and stresses the importance of having people on your team who care and are passionate about the agency, the business, the product, and the process.
Just get it out there, whether it be video, blog writing, or other content production.

[45:11] Calvin gives us his agency name- C’Mon Creative- where you can check him out for guidance and inspiration for your own content creation!

View Details

Summary:

Understanding the importance of great content creation is the first step in moving towards a killer content strategy- everyone knows they should be doing it, but prioritizing content creation over client work isn’t always the most appealing prospect. In today’s episode, we dive into the DEEP value in creating your own content and how the process has worked for us in our own agencies.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

If the content you’re creating isn’t genuine and true to who you are as a business, people will pick up on that. Stay true to your message and brand- don’t put out content just to get it out the door.
Writing a book is a great initiative- promoting that in different places is a powerful way to connect your name with your industry.
Great content is a long play. While your lead counts may not go up right away as a result, the QUALITY should shift over time. Focus on your industry specialty, creating great content that speaks to those pain points withe unique perspective, and the clients will find YOU!

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[3:24] Brad talks about the challenge of beginning the process of content creation for yourself, reflecting on the idea that it’s not selfish to do so but actually an important investment! “We need to be our #1 client… and it’s really difficult to get employees on board with that.”

He shares the struggle of perfectionism, wanting to get everything 100% perfect when in reality 85% is great.

[4:55] Ken talks about how difficult it is to get your voice heard amongst the other screaming voices in the industry.

[7:18] Ken says that creating a strong voice for yourself that is based on being a thought leader in the industry is the philosophy for Metacake.

[7:26] Bob: “I know for me,one of the things that was really successful was Itried to blog and write a lot and try to position myself as somebody who knew what theywere talking about. In that field.”

[9:25] Bob speaks about how agencies should think of themselves more as a media company that just marketing and/or advertising.

One simple way to start: Write a book! Being able to say you’ve authored a book about the subject matter you’re speaking about automatically adds legitimacy to your “thought leader” role.

[14:05] Brad asks Bob to talk about content writing, as it’s something Bob has been a strong advocate for for a long time.

[15:00] Bob responds: “Over time, if you see content writing as part of your longterm strategy, there is power in that. You can google the name of my agency and stuff I wrote 10 or 15 years ago still pops up.”

Think of yourself as an agency “on the offensive” and play from an offensive perspective- creating more content with your name on it means you’re first to come up in Google listings.

[19:00] Ken talks about what truly good content is and how much investment of time and energy it really takes. Properly writing about new ideas or strategies takes a lot of time and intentionality.

[23:00] Brad: When you’re writing, look at the news of the day and write about it from the perspective of your own industry and how it relates.

[25:26] Brad: Consistency is key- the biggest influencers and content creators in the world didn’t happen into their success, they showed up every day and put the work in. Be consistent in your content creation and the results will come over time.

[27:47] Ken speaks on finding your unique point of view and passion for that perspective.

“In my opinion, you should not write for search engines. Write for people, find your passion, and then you get the best of both worlds… you want to help align them with the services that you offer.”

[36:00] Ken continues to speak on client who are hungry for a specific type of agency relationship- “there is an appetite for good educational content that people could do to help sell themselves or their business” and so Metacake serves to fill that need.

“You have to balance short term activities that drive revenue with longterm activities that will build recognition and benefit your business in 5, 10, 15 years.”

[39:11] Brad asks Ken about how he gets Metacake behind his content strategy as a team.

[40:09] Ken: “I think being genuine is really important because… if you’re not genuine and it’s really contrived, you do it just to put a content strategy out… that’s not true to who you are. I think people will feel that hypocrisy and I imagine it will be harder to to get behind longterm, but the truth is a big part of our heart is what we believe our purpose is as a business.”

[41:00] Ken responds: “I believe a product that all agencies sell information and experience… you might deliver that by creating a website, or you might deliver that by writing a book, but you’re still brokering information and experience.”

“I’ve tried to intentionally instill that in our team and discuss it… being genuine about what we’re doing has helped create a sort of mantra in the office, and our team is excited about it now… educating our world with how to create a better business using e-commerce. We get to teach people about having a healthy business… and even if you’re an executive at the top direct consumer company in the world, you can still laugh. And so we don’t want to be a talking head, but we want to have a personality that’s true to us and also a little bit fun.”
He talks about how Metacake has used humor and silliness in YouTube content to get people’s attention and help establish a personality for Metacake through this process. Sometimes those efforts don’t quite hit the mark, but they’re fun and informative!

[48:00] Brad talks about the importance of deciding where to spend your money wisely- the process of trying something new can pay off massively in learning for your team.

Brad’s agency Anthem hosted lunch and learn session for local businesses a few years back- and they became a much more recognized company as a result. Ken shares that although they may not have gotten immediate ROI for these events, they reaped rewards in other ways.

[48:21] Ken “I have a theory that most of the reason why people don’t put effort into content strategy is they don’t know where to start- what to talk about, what their personality and style are going to be. And so put time into that- that’ll prove returns but also, just DO IT.”

[51:42] Bob speaks on the next episode, and how The Guys will dive into maximizing content and some of the tools that are used to make this happen. “We’ve convinced you to focus on this content creation, but now we need to know where to start.”

View Details

Summary:

In today’s episode, we talk with Chris Brewer about the challenges his agency has faced since March of 2020. Chris breaks down the steps he and his team took to gain stable financial footing early on, the way that their team culture and mindset has impacted their client relationships throughout the pandemic, and the value that comes from creating loyalty with your team and clients in hard times.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Don’t do business with jerks! Bring clients (and team members) on board that you know are aligned with your philosophies- this is for the benefit of your team as well as the quality of work that you’re putting out.
Transparency with your team will only help to build up confidence in your decision making- this builds a team culture that will support you even in the worst crisis.
Embracing a hybrid model of working from home/ from the office/ remotely will empower your team- you may even see productivity increase!

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About Our Guest:

Chris Brewer is the co-founder of OMG Commerce. He is a 10 year Agency veteran out of St Louis with experience building 7-figure businesses. OMG Commerce has the honor of being a Premier Google Partner- something that only 3% of Google Partner businesses attain. OMG delivers online/offline marketing expertise, advice, and education to ecommerce businesses and brands worldwide.

Chris on LinkedIn
OMG Commerce Website
twitter.com/momarketer

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[4:09] Ken introduces Chris Brewer, founder of OMG Commerce. “His company has risen to a level that less than 3% of all Google Partner Agencies worldwide attain- the rank of premier partner… this company delivers online/offline marketing expertise, advise, and education to ecommerce businesses and brands worldwide. Chris has a history of building 7-figure businesses. In addition to the incredible growth and success with OMG, his entrepreneurial accomplishments have included an outdoor advertising firm and a publishing company.”

[4:58] Bob asks Chris about how Covid-19 has impacted their business. “Has it really brought a whole new level of business for you?”
[5:15] Chris responds that the first couple weeks of March were scary and unstable, and leads just stopped coming in. They applied for PPE loans out of a sense of urgency and then wound up having to hire more individuals for the team. He talks about having survivors guilt once the pandemic is over, as he’s aware that it’s been devastating for many.

[6:17] Bob asks who Chris’ typical client is.

[6:23] Chris responds: For Amazon clients, having at least a million in annual revenue is necessary- for the Google clients they must be spending at least 5K a month over the last 90 days.

He talks about limiting the number of new clients they take on, so as to keep their employees afloat and not overworked and also to keep their quality of work high.
They don’t do business with people who are jerks- people who are not in it for the long-term and those who treat people in a disrespectful way.

[7:42] Bob asks how they filter those people.

[7:48] Chris responds that he collaborates with his business partner and they both call attention to potential red flags for themselves.

They want to work with brands who have past success, who are willing to take chances and come into the relationship with an education about how things work. Taking on a smaller/newer company means more guidance, more room for scope creep and more room for error- often they send smaller leads or leads that wouldn’t usually be a great fit to other Google Agencies, purely because it would be better in the long run for the client.
If you know a client has a lot of learning curves and that your costs would be unfair to them, don’t take them on as clients! Refer them to other agencies with costs that suit their needs more appropriately.

[12:30] Ken asks what Coroniavirus looked like for OMG commerce- layoffs, shakeups?

[12:54] Chris talks about his 10 years of experience in the business, the punches he’s already taken and recovered from over the years and how the fear that Covid brought was nothing like any of those past experiences.

He shares that his wife actually asked him what his plan was before anyone else- and he eventually called attention to the virus with his business partners so they could begin planning for the possibility of a global pandemic.
They had a nice sum in money market accounts that they quickly pulled out- several months worth of operations gave some comfort.
Their team has always had a 100% clear view of their finances, every month employees get a review of their numbers. So they shared all this with their employees, there was 100% transparency.

[19:30] Chris shares that they wound up being profitable at the end of Q2, which was surprising. Their bonus structure program was based on quarterly numbers, and they made the decision to go ahead and hand out those bonuses at the height of the pandemic. They made that decision and it blew their employees away- which has in turn strengthened their culture and work ethic and grown the business in more ways than just financially.

[23:00] Ken talks about how great that decision was- stressing that it creates a loyalty that is incredibly valuable on the team side.

Metacake takes a Dave Ramsey approach to savings- they try to have a years worth of operations costs saved up for emergencies.

[23:36] Chris: “It took a pandemic for us to realize that if we’re doing the right things for our clients (and employees) as an agency, it would have to be very dark times in the US for us to lose enough clients to put us out of business.”

[25:09] Bob asks about how Chris communicated with his team during this early Covid phase.

[25:23] Chris responds: There were a lot of discussions about what people were and weren’t comfortable with. They kept a skeleton crew of people at the office for as long as they could, but as soon as someone asked if they could work from home, they let everyone know that it was an option. Allowing people the option to feel safe, heard, and cared for resulted in more productivity and actual growth for the company overall.

[30:00] Ken asks Chris about the necessity of working in an office at all anymore- will they ever go to a full remote model?

Chris says that a hybrid model is what they’ll lean into- they’ve realized that their workers can be trusted to work and get things done, even from home.

[33:00] Ken shares that a hybrid working model is better suited for the reality of life and how humans function- the freedom of blending home life with work life helps to create a healthy balance that results in more productivity and happier individuals.

[35:00] The Guys chat with Chris about how well this hybrid model has worked for them so far. They speak on the empathy that has been extended in many directions, as we are seeing one another through a more human lens. Not necessarily informality, but a more realistic look at how we all function in our lives. Just being on video calls has made this more applicable than ever.

[40:00] Ken asks Chris about OMG differentiates themselves in an oversaturated market.

[41:45] Chris says that by shining a light on your team and your culture, you can create a name for yourself, a reputation that spreads in a positive way about what you’re doing.

OMG stands for Online Marketing Giant- at the time they were considered a local agency but wanted to aim higher and bigger, because his partner saw where ecommerce was going.
They position themselves to be “experts” in their industry, and do an incredible job of getting themselves in the spotlight on popular platforms in that way- Shopify for example.
They create content that educates and positions them in that knowledge leadership position as well.

[46:32] Chris: “I would say to other agencies- if you’ve got a great blog or you have a certain skillset that you can turn into a guide, just get it done, find someone to get that done for you…” Start with someone who’s willing to publish your content- SEO it and put legs underneath it!

[47:30] Bob asks Chris about his plans for the future.

[47:37] Chris: They’re looking into ways to go full service on Amazon, as they’ve had a couple clients who left out of necessity.

Message for smaller agencies: “Be patient. We’ve been at this 10 years and we’re just now getting the levels that we kind of dreamed of seven years ago… if you try to push the envelope or try to skip steps to building a culture, building your processes… you’re never gonna make it.”

[53:07] Bob thanks Chris for his transparency and honesty, saying that it’s encouraging as an agency owner to hear others that are further along talk about their experience and the hard lessons they’ve learned.

[55:00] Ken asks Chris where we can find him online- social plugs! Fun fact: If you live chat OMG Commerce, Chris is likely the one that will respond to you! You can also find him on Twitter, Instagram, etc. Check him out!

View Details

Summary:

In today’s episode, we’re breaking down the “image” of a giant advertising office with a giant team vs the reality. We hit on the pain points of proving yourself to new clients, managing dynamic work preferences in a changing work landscape, and the deep, long-lasting benefits of a blended team with varied levels of experience. How do you determine which roles require a full-time employee versus an independent contractor? How much access should those contractors have to your clients directly, if any? What are the pros and cons of each? We’re diving into all this and more!

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

When hiring, think about the future and the company you want to be. Being forward-thinking with your hiring strategy is key.
Regardless of how much work is being done by a contractor, make sure they are part of your team and sold on your way of doing things and your company culture.
Work smarter. Having a blended team of full-time employees, freelancers, and contracts with other agencies or individuals with awesome skillsets should be the goal.

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[2:38] Bob introduces our topic- contractors, team composition, and how you communicate with the outside world about that.

[3:21] Ken says that although there is an image of a large office with a ton of employees, in reality “there’s always a blend of staff and that’s usually a good thing.”

“How does it better serve the client and yourself to blend the team?”

[4:16] Brad shares his experience with a team of developers in Romania that he has a strong business relationship with. It began 10 years ago and has only grown stronger since then. Technically they would be considered freelancers but the relationship is so strong, that team feels like an extension of his team here in the States.

[7:18] Bob asks what is the main reason for maintaining that relationship over the years, when certainly there have been opportunities to bring it closer. Is it availability, skillsets, etc?

[7:26] Brad says it used to be cost, but that has definitely gone up over time. “We’ve had to adjust a lot of their fees and stuff for us, right now I wouldn’t say they’re super competitive to the US… but they know so much information, especially clients that we’ve dealt with for years… there’s a value in that.”

He speaks to the positives of waking up and seeing work that has been done overnight- purely because of the time difference. “We haven’t felt the need to hire for any of that internally.”

[9:25] Bob asks Ken about outsourcing.

[9:28] Ken says that the general rule of thumb for him is that if it’s a core business need, then you really want someone internal, or full time… “especially in niche specialities, which is a lot of what we do.”

“When you hire, you hire for the future and you gotta hire looking forward… how do I build a team for the company that I want to be?”

[11:40] Ken continues: Not only is it important to be forward-thinking in this way for your own business, but it is tremendously helpful to express this to your clients as well.

Oftentimes, agencies find themselves as the outsourced employee, a larger agency hires them to do something for a client, etc. There has been a stigma attached to that- with clients asking “Why can’t x agency get it done themselves? Are they trying to pull the wool over our eyes?”

[14:05] Brad shares that a recent client expressed worry about this and asked if a project would be done by his agency or if it would be outsourced- they have had bad experiences in the past in this way.

[15:00] Brad and Ken talk about how it really shouldn’t make a difference who’s doing the work, so long as the client experience is stable and seamless. For example, if they’ve worked with a specific person to establish the projects scope, etc and then are moved to work with a totally different team for execution, the switch can be jolting and not always a seamless experience.

What makes a difference is the integration of those contractors into your team. If they are separate entities completely, how can the client rely on them to be as invested in the project as you are?

[16:51] Ken mentions that the argument could be said for the other side as well, that because contractors are solely responsible for their own business, and compared to an employee that gets paid either way they may invest more in the project and do a better job.

The point is, it comes down to the relationship with your people.
“Do you have a deep relationship with people working for you, with you, on your team?” If they’re integrated, and deeply invested in the relationship, it really doesn’t matter how they get paid.

[18:31] Brad says that even those employees that don’t work directly with the main team should get an invite to team events and functions.

[22:13] Bob speaks about companies like Fivver and Upwork being available to help create entire agencies of freelancers. While this may be a quick, somewhat easy and direct way to get employees quickly, attempting to build a lasting company on this strategy is questionable.

[22:19] Ken adds that this is definitely not a winning strategy.

[22:52] Brad says there is a difference between a contractor that is doing a specific, niche part of a project and will never have face-to-face interaction with the client- versus someone who’s a contractor that has face time with the client and needs to be fully bought into your company culture.

If you are hiring a contractor only for a season, but they do have face time with the client, be sure to make it clear to the client what that relationship is so that down the line they don’t feel misled when those same individuals aren’t their primary point of contact.

[24:46] Ken switches gears to the dynamics of agencies hiring and working closely with other agencies. Do you keep them behind the scenes or bring them into the picture with the client? How do you communicate that relationship?

[25:46] Brad speaks on how Anthem does this. Typically the partner agency doesn’t lead on strategy. He always makes sure the partner agency comes in with a very defined, strong statement of work and a detailed list of deliverables so the client can see everything very clearly. This helps to prevent scope creep, which tends to be worse as more hands reach into the project.

This can be challenging, because you have to renegotiate a few times and redo things.

[27:47] Ken speaks on Metacake’s experience of being hired as an Ecommerce specialist. Typically MC leads strategy on this front, bringing in smaller sub contractors for more niche parts of the larger project.

[31:27] Bob asks for platforms that have helped with finding contractors. He mentions a private Slack group for Nashville- NashDev.

Speaks to his experience hiring an animator through Fivver. “I was really impressed with the quality that they gave us for the cost. It was unbelievable… we wrote this, the creative and the script, but the production was awesome, and there’s no way I could ever compete with that.”

[33:56] Brad speaks to the level of healthy competition that those platforms create. Quality of work, speed, cost, etc are all wound into the platform algorithm and help to produce high quality candidates with varied skillsets at competitive prices.

[36:00] Ken talks about how access to these high-quality creatives allow for more risk taking and new opportunities in projects. The cost is cheaper, the track record and portfolio is right there for you, so why not ask them to try out this project and see where it takes us?

[39:11] Bob speaks on the quality of people available on UpWork specifically, and how the algorithm seems to have worked out the nuances of how to promote and reward competition between qualified freelancers.

The only people that can rate on UpWork are those who have paid someone to do actual work, so there is no room for faking reviews or ratings.

[41:10] Ken talks about how Metacake uses freelancers from UpWork for smaller animation projects, with the lead designer doing all the art direction and giving feedback. This frees up so much time for other less specialized projects.

[44:46] Bob: “The value that we bring as agencies to our clients- what we’re really good at- is the strategy, our knowledge, our background. And that always has to guide the freelancers, and that has to kind of govern where we go…”

He mentions that the way Agency owners talk about freelancers might be the way that our clients talk about us as agencies, so this is a great opportunity to look in the mirror and do some self-reflecting.

[47:47] Ken talks about finding the balance of when it’s appropriate to use a freelancers versus when bringing someone in-house may be more beneficial.

[50:50] Brad talks about how important it is to integrate those who will have direct contact with your employees- freelancers who come in for projects often should feel a part of the team and well-integrated when they come in on a project.

[53:00] Brad continues “What I found is really valuable for me, the best freelancers are the ones where when I bring them in, there’s a passion for the client and there’s a passion for the end result that is hard to find and that is worth more than anything.”

Freelancers who bring in the busy-ness of their other clients or relationships are never fun to work with or great to rely on.

[55:41] Ken clarifies: “Full time means I have access full time” and it’s important to define those parameters with your internal as well as external team members.

View Details

Summary:

Last episode we got to hear our guest, Taylor Watt, discuss her experiences working for various agencies. They have ranged from horrible to great. Today we’re talking about what we can practically do (and what we have done) to create a genuinely great company culture. Different personality types and management styles have to be taken into account along the way. Our guest Taylor Watt shares practical tips from firsthand experience that have created a more balanced work/life relationship for her. We’re discussing how personality impacts performance under pressure, how to strengthen working relationships amidst a changing industry landscape, and what it means to have “work hours” and “non-work hours” when everyone is working from home. Keeping spirits and motivations high when everyone is separated is a tricky balancing act- so today we’re bringing some practical advice for agency and business owners alike.

Top 4 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Contrary to the social media accounts of every business, “culture” is not one size fits all. It’s not standing desks, snack bars, and company relay races. True culture takes into account the personality of your team and the pedigree that you want to create within your organization. Having healthy, balanced, and committed humans is the only way to success, so you must define that and move with intention towards it.
As a leader, you MUST be healthy and have emotional intelligence - this is not an option. When giving feedback, keeping someone’s personality type in mind can be the difference between motivating a positive end result and leaving them frozen in inaction.
“Businesses run by processes, and people run the processes.” So in taking care of your employees, creating systems and processes for them to follow, you are setting the business up for success in the long-term.
Having solid, reliable systems and processes internally and within client projects is extremely important. From a completely practical standpoint, establishing systems and making sure everyone is on the same page helps to increase accountability while providing freedom for self-management.

About Our Guest:

Taylor Watt is a Marketing Manager at Metacake, running marketing both strategically for clients as well as Metacake’s internal marketing. She has her hands in many other Metacake projects as well- from writing blogs to content creation to strategy for Metacake’s YouTube channel. She is passionate, kind, funny, and incredible at her job, truly invaluable to the Metacake team- she also has a really cute dog and makes a mean stack of pancakes.

Resources:

Click Happy by Molly Pittman- A guide to a meaningful life and career in the digital era.

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[1:04] Bob gives a brief recap of last week’s episode. “We talked about some of the negative experiences that Taylor had in a larger agency, and then we talked about changing those, and what the culture is that even exists in our own agencies and backgrounds. Today we want to talk about some real practical steps and examples and ways to move forward in a more healthy way.”

[1:35] Brad shares that over the last five years or so, he’s been on a journey to creating more health internally within his business. He often feels like if he misses 15 minutes of productivity during the day, he has to make up for it later with time away from family. It’s a big struggle for him as a solo agency owner.

He speaks on not having your day so scheduled that you don’t have time for the human element of ownership. When it really comes down to it, the people in your organization are more important than the organization, so treating them as such is incredibly valuable.

[3:34] Ken adds that its really a question of “What is the best strategy to creating a successful business?” Which is turns out actually means not burning people out.

[4:30] Bob asks Taylor for some practical or helpful advice that other agency owners who may be listening could employ.

[5:00] Taylor mentions our last episode and again stresses the importance of processes. “Systems are important, accountability. Making sure that every employee with you is set up for success, because if you do your due diligence there, after that, it’s all on them, whether they’re successful or not.”

Taking time to focus on your employee’s physical, spiritual, emotional health if possible.
While a 10 or 15 minute conversation with an employee may feel like wasted time, it is really motivating them to work and so it’s not a waste of time, you’ve just invested your time into your employee.

[6:05] Bob speaks about emotional intelligence and how important it is to know your employee’s personality type, as your feedback may be really encouraging to some but inhibit productivity in others.

[7:17] Ken speaks on Metacake’s take on personality types. “We all have personality tests or profiles for everybody. That’s been a fun team activity, but it’s been really helpful.”

With different personalities, values are different, the ways that you motivate and inspire people changes.
Metacake’s team members take both the DISC assessment and the Enneagram test.
Dealing with creative personalities may not be intuitive for many agency owners

[10:43] Taylor suggest creating a sort of questionnaire for new employees to fill out- something that asks them about their ideal work environment, their ideal boss, where their motivation comes from.

[12:27] Brad talks about how as agency owner, it can be difficult to give feedback sometimes because things do come off harsh. He speaks on the difficulty he has with presenting criticism in a softer light, and stresses the importance of measuring your words as an agency owner, as those words can carry a lot more weight than you realize.

Brad continues that learning to speak to people in a way that lifts them up and inspires them, encourages them to to better- these are the skills that create truly great teams and relationships.

[15:00] Taylor shares a book she’s read this year, “Click Happy” by Molly Pittman. “At one point she said, especially in this industry, people value and prioritize people that work overly hard… it’s a quick road to burnout and actually a really unintelligent way to go about your business or your work.”

The smart way to work is prioritizing the most important things and working on cutting out and delegating the small things.
Agency culture in general glamorizes being busy, and glamorizes hard work… “And I realized that later, after reading the book, that yeah I’ve been doing that.”

[18:00] Ken speaks on managing that culture at Metacake. While you want to encourage employees who do go above and beyond, ultimately creating an environment where employees can have a reasonable expectation of personal life versus business life is the key.

While Metacake does rarely require work outside of normal hours, the balancing act is making sure that burnout doesn’t creep up and is managed in a healthy way. Respecting work hours and expectations for those hours is the place to start.
The same is communicated to clients- “Our people are not in on Saturday working, we’re not going to be doing anything specific for you during that time, unless it’s an absolute emergency and there have been those times.”

[20:00] Bob relates this concept to working from home during the Covid-19 pandemic. He asks Taylor how that’s worked for her.

[25:07] Taylor says that some people on the team have done well and thrived, while others have really struggled. Personally, she is a people person so it’s been a struggle to maintain energy levels and motivation while working solo.

She speaks about the spontaneous creative conversations that come up when everyone is in the office together- you can’t really plan for those so that is a definite downside to working from home.

[31:00] Brad shares that one benefit to working for home for him, although it was struggle to get there, was realizing that by taking a half hour or so to do something other than work, to do something with his hands that maybe was more creatively challenging, helped him show up for meetings and work in a more centered way later on.

“I found that I never knew I needed that until I actually did it. And Covid forced me to do that- or at least put me in the position to do that.”

[32:45] Ken shares his experience with this topic and plans that Metacake has for their future work.

Eventually there will be a blend of working from home or working at the office, but I’m still questioning the requirement… “It’s more like we’re in an open workspace… like hey these people will be in on these days so if you want to go hang out with them, you can.”
The ultimate goal is getting people to work smarter, not harder.
“And also, how do you have a fun, healthy life… having the flexibility to work from anywhere, we’ve had people that have gone and visited their families for weeks and work from there. And that’s great.”

[33:45] Brad speaks about the importance of systems and being able to trust that ALL of your employees have what they need to follow those systems and do a great job while having the freedom to live their lives as well.

[35:05] Ken stresses the importance of this as well, because your business needs to be a system. “It can’t just be a freeform thing... Because it’s not scalable that way… it’s not predictable and consistent. And so how do you create what is seemingly very flexible, but actually very systematic.”

[35:37] Brad: “Business runs by processes and people run the processes.”

[36:45] Ken shares that managing the mental health side of people’s lives is also important, so Metacake provides an every-other-week one-on-one meeting with both owners to connect and share their working experiences. Creating that human connection on an individual basis is so important to building trust and get real feedback.

[40:06] Ken speaks on the challenges of working with a team who is mostly younger and spread apart and away from their families. “How can we create genuine environments where people actually enjoy their work?”

Finding the balance between managing the somewhat chaotic world of parenting while working from home is important. As a business owner, prioritizing connection with co-workers and feeling like a valued member of the team will make the process of doing life with family that much easier and healthier for your employee.

[42:30] Taylor shares how Metacake has broken days up into working remote as a group and getting lunch at new places together. A fun activity like Top Golf during the day followed by lunch and remotely working- also about a year into her job a manager encouraged her to get her nails done and gave her a gift card.

That really went a long way for her! Small gestures make a big difference.

[49:00] Taylor continues- Metacake as a primary team member in charge of planning these sorts of activities, and gets team input as she plans so that everyone is sure to have a good time. Making sure that everybody is interested and engaged together is key!

Click Happy: Your Guide to a Meaningful Life & Career in the Digital Era

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Summary:

Today’s episode we’re diving into the various experiences of Agency culture with guest Taylor Watt, Marketing Manager at Metacake. After changing lanes from teaching to advertising, she began working for a large agency with a long history and big name. The experience wasn’t pleasant, to say the least, and after a tumultuous learning curve she found her place at Metacake. Today we’re talking about Taylor’s experience of working for two totally different companies doing somewhat similar work, the company culture has impacted her performance and life in general.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Employees don’t have to feel fear in order to be productive! Give your employees a healthy, stable, respectful and encouraging environment and the results will come back to you tenfold.
Healthy Leadership is evident from the outside, and healthy culture is intentional. Everyone will feel the result- you, your employees, AND your clients!
Human relationships should be the priority, with the work being secondary. If your team doesn’t feel respected by leadership at a basic level, feedback won’t be received in a way that is constructive and supportive.

About Our Guest:

Taylor Watt is the Marketing Manager at Metacake, running marketing both strategically for clients as well as Metacake’s internal marketing. She has her hands in every Metacake project- from content creation to strategy for Metacake’s YouTube channel. She is passionate, kind, funny, and incredible at her job, truly invaluable to the Metacake team- she also has a really cute dog and makes a mean stack of pancakes.

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[3:15] The Guys introduce Taylor Watt, Marketing Manager at Metacake.

[3:33] Taylor: “I grew up in Nashville, I went to a little Christian college called Lee University… My roommate was in advertising and I was always so envious that her work seemed exciting and more passionate… so I made the switch last minute and spent a little extra time at Lee and got my advertising degree.”

She got a job right out of school at a big agency in Nashville and the experience was not great, but eventually moved on and found Metacake. “I’m so grateful I switched majors and that I get to do the work that I do.”

[5:28] Bob asks: “At the big agency, what was the expectation that was going on?”

[5:41] Taylor responds: In college, the expectation in advertising is that you’ll get a great job at a big agency, work hard and make big money. Fast paced, working with lots of clients, trendy office setting… those expectations were set and fulfilled by the agency life.

[6:30] Brad asks: “What was the first sign that made you say ‘Hey I’m not going to like this?’”

[6:37] Taylor: “Well I didin’t really know what to expect, this is the first big girl job that I had, but you’d think that an agency that had been running for decades, that there would be some sort of formal training. There is no formal training.”

Taylor shares that there was zero guidance with extremely high expectations from your management. Long hours were expected, so she stayed late every day to try and keep up with the expectations.
She never made plans after work because of this, and the year and half of working there was made even more difficult as a result.

[7:45] Brad: “What would happen if you just told them you had to leave? What if you had kids, were they flexible with that?”

[7:57] Taylor: “The people with kids would just leave, but I think it’s like if you’re young and single, it’s kind of expected that you’ll stay. I’m very submissive by nature, so I would just keep my head down.”

[8:20] Taylor that she had no trouble with trying hard, with working hard. The company didn’t provide laptops, so working late at home wasn’t an option. They offered laptops to check out but the technology was old, no cloud saving or easy access. This made the late night mandatory.

[10:00] Brad talks about it’s common for old agencies that have been around for a while to still be doing things the same way they’ve always done them. There is a culture that this is the way things are and they’re not going to change, are not possible to change, because this is the way it’s been for decades.

[11:15] Brad asks: “Do you feel like your coworkers had the same experiences?”

[11:30] Taylor: “Yes I think everyone else had the same experience and concerns… there were five of us all about the same experience level… I think everybody had the mindset that you just had to prove yourself and eventually work your way up.”

She did confide in management and ask if things were normal, if this was the way things normally happened. Sick days weren’t really days off or sick days, you were still expected to work.

[12:15] Ken: Talks about how working hard and “paying your dues” isn’t necessarily a bad thing- there is a certain amount of experience necessary to be totally trusted. The process of going through fire is an experience and it’s good for you! But poor leadership through that process is what’s messed up and is more dysfunctional than it is intentionally difficult at certain stages.

[13:20] Taylor speaks about how a lack of kindness and respect breeds an environment of fear, and that’s not a healthy place for anybody to be.

[16:00] Brad discusses his experience as a single owner of his business. It’s challenging to not let the stress and fear of everything falling apart get to you and create more trouble than is necessary. He shares that he once had a boss tell him “Brad, it’s just advertising,” and that has stuck with him through times of stress and steep learning curves.

[18:33] Taylor talks about one pitfall at the big agency she worked for- “It was so big and the team is so big and there were no systems and processes.” When things went wrong she was very hard on herself but in reality she was sort of set up for failure and lack of guidance.

She speaks about how different it is at Metacake. There are systems and processes for everything, a project manager that everyone is in touch with and everyone is very transparent about their daily tasks and work. This provides accountability and gives peace of mind so everyone can know that no balls are going to be dropped.
Aside from that, “It’s just a pleasant place to be, also it’s an inspiring place to be.”

[22:30] Brad asks “If you need to take correction from a boss, what is the best way to correct without diminishing your confidence and spirit?”

The Guys discuss previous experience of negative feedback from a boss, Taylor shares a story about a boss that spoke unkindly to her via the team Slack channel so everybody could see. When she confronted this boss, there was an aggressive response in return and it was very discouraging to her.

[37:21] Taylor speaks on receiving criticism or feedback- she always goes to the compliment sandwich. Start with the way they are doing something well, then give the criticism with suggestions on how to improve, and follow up with another soft compliment. That way the employee doesn’t feel attacked or discouraged, but lifted up and respected.

“I think young people need to learn how to take correction and not let it just destroy them. And you need to humble yourself and that’s how you learn.”
She speaks on corrections given by Ken. “It never hurts. It’s always like ‘Oh well I feel kind of dumb, but I’ll go fix it,’”

[39:25] Brad: “Is that because you know his heart and you know that no matter what he does, he’s for you?”

It’s really about the intent and the care, the work relationship where you know you’re cared for and supported and that someone has your back.

[40:38] Bob speaks on how our work does not define us as human beings. This mindset and belief about life creates subtle difference in the way that we interact with each other, and the results of this environment are felt immediately

[42:00] The Guys talk about how the biggest pitfall for many agencies is the breakdown in the team relationship- in doing the work, it can be easy to forget the human element, which results in an environment of fear and high pressure with little reward.

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Summary:

Having an awesome project management system in place is just the beginning- there also have to be processes in place to track every bit of work that your company is doing for it’s clients. You can have all the tools you want, but if no one uses them or people HATE to use them, they won’t ultimately work. Creating an incredible product for your clients that is also profitable for your business means knowing who’s doing what work, how long they’re taking, and staying in a budget. What good is it knowing that a project took 30 extra hours if you don’t find out until 3 weeks later? Today’s we share our thoughts on the systems and processes that we use to ensure our own profitability.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Ultimately, tracking hours isn’t about holding people accountable for every moment of their day, but being able to have a realistic view of project health- which means a more accurate picture of your REAL profitability.
Providing accurate estimates for your clients is an uphill battle, with scope creep being the biggest challenge. Use data to scope and productize your service offerings.
Pro Tip: Don’t start working on a project until you have everything you need from a client! Work towards acquiring the information you need as early in the project as possible. Consider building packages that have this discovery time built into the services you’re offering.

Resources Mentioned:

Basecamp 3: Project Management software used by Metacake for every client- includes time tracking option for each task on a project. You can try it free for 30 days!
Asana: Project Management software that allows you to track, manage, and connect projects across multiple teams.
Accelo: Project Management software that allows you to gain visibility across your client database, improve processes and spend more time on your expertise.

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[1:59] Bob introduces this week’s episode. We’re continuing to talk about profitability, because as an agency owner it’s SO important know how you’re making money.

[2:45] Ken talks about how difficult it is to manage profitability.

Last episode we talked about how the tendency is to have a $100K per head revenue expectation- how do you grow that? Let’s talk about what we’ve done to attack that problem and create solutions for ourselves.

[4:04] Brad speaks about a challenge he’s experienced- estimates are based on the hours that an employee spends on a project, and that can be difficult to track.

Ken responds that the idea of being able to track every minute of someone’s day is an illusion
Bob adds that it gets more and more difficult as a team grows

[5:33] Brad shares about his experience in tracking billable hours back before the internet took over everything- time sheets were a pain in the butt but then there was new software that got rid of timesheets. Employees hated this because it resulted in micromanagement, and there was huge pushback.

As time has gone on, he realized that “it’s more important to be able to estimate projects to be able to allow enough padding so that you can spend a little extra time and your team can spend extra time when it’s necessary…” Be aware that 90% of the time, you’ll probably go over budget and take that into account with estimates.

[10:03] Bob asks if Brad has a formula for this- Brad says he always adds between 10 and 30% onto a project to allow for extra work.

They break projects down by resources it will take, then break the hours down from each resource… all expenses are taken into account. This is a top-down method of estimating.
Then he also looks at it from a bottom-up perspective. How long will the project be, how many people will be on the account, how much of their time will be spent?

[11:39] Brad: “The biggest challenge that we have is not estimating, but scope creep… it’s allowing the client to have flexibility but at the same time making sure that projects don’t go on for too long…”

[14:50] Ken stresses the importance of using technology or software that people will actually use and that is user-friendly. The more psychological barriers a person has about using a specific software, the less accurate your numbers are going to be.

[15:40] Brad talks about how often hours aren’t tracked in real time, which can lead to a real discontinuity in billing clients. In the past, when time cards were the most popular way to track hours, this was an enormous problem that agencies often wouldn’t find out about until the project was over.

The method of billing the client adds further complexity to the process of tracking hours- the billing method and payment schedule has to be conducive to realistically tracking work that is being done.

[17:30] Ken: “Billing that way doesn’t work… the worst of both worlds for both sides, right? You don’t know as an agency what your income is going to be, and as a client you can’t project what your bill’s going to be. And so it’s a hard expectation to manage.”

[19:33] Ken shares that Metacke uses Basecamp3 to track and manage projects. It has a built-in timer that you activate, then make notes of how you used that time and log those hours, and you’re done.

This has created huge value for Metacake, as now they can track hours in real time. Knowing that you went 5 hours over on a project doesn’t matter if you find out 2 weeks later. But knowing right when it’s happening allows you to manage things much more easily.
Of course, the truth is that time tracking is a huge beast. It’s subject to human error, but we can do our best to make it easier and more accurate.

[21:55] Bob talks about how this accurate information feeds into having more open dialogues with your clients- the client can be very clear on what the hours are and what they’re paying for.

[22:55] Brad shares that his company has run into problems before where they have no real scope for a project but the client just wants a quote- it’s hard to give a quote when just figuring out the scope itself will cost the client $10K to begin with.

Upfront discovery costs and a clear depiction of what they will include is helpful to the client who may not understand scope creep.
Anthem uses Asana to track hours, which doesn’t include a timer but does allow you to track projects on a smaller, real time scale. It increases communication about progress so that anyone can see the milestones at a glance, which allows for a more accurate view of project scope.

[26:40] Bob adds that oftentimes, personality type impacts how people keep track of hours. Workflow, communication habits, waves of inspiration, etc all influence how someone may track their productivity.

[29:47] Brad speaks about the cost of the sale- “We probably spend about 10% of our profit on each project on just getting the sale. Especially if it’s a brand new client.”

[31:33] Bob talks about a template or a formula to get proposals turned around more quickly. Certain things are going to be the same for every proposal.

[32:27] Ken shares that Metacake has different “building blocks” for every project or service offering, that are put together with other basic blocks to create an estimate.

[35:25] Brad talks about proposal templates, or ways to build out proposals more quickly.

[36:24] Ken asks what the most profitable services that The Guys have done over the years, and which are traditionally the ones that tend to lose money or be lower in profitability or harder to maintain/manage.

[36:45] Brad: Technology has always been scary, because developing new technology leaves so much room for unexpected things to come up.

[37:53] Bob: Managing social media is usually pretty straightforward and can be profitable- the old standby being paid media.

[39:17] Brad adds that it is also incredibly difficult to predict profitability when you rely on the client for a lot of information- for example if you’re designing a website for a client it can take 3-6 months depending on the size of the site and the client. And that can be like pulling teeth, waiting for them to give you what you need.

[41:00] Bob speaks about Metacake and how Ken’s partner Bob does a great job of keeping clients in line and being a real stickler for details on the front end.

“You guys will not start a project until you have all the content in hand… and then you will fight with the client and say hey we really don’t want to start because this affects the design… so until we have all the content I’m not sure.”

[42:49] Bob shares the software used by a client he’s working with now, a tool called Accelo that is a time management/ project management/ team management tool that works well for them.

View Details

Summary:

Maintaining a steady profit margin is the key to a healthy, stable business. It’s how you survive in downturns, how you invest in innovation, how you market, and more. The classic model in the agency world revolved around tracking billable hours and racing towards commodification at every turn- today we are opening up about creating profit without losing sight of the human component of your business.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Know your numbers! If you don’t have an accurate view of your current profit margin, you’ll never be able to create lasting changes that result in increased profit.
“You want to shoot for four times what you pay somebody in revenue… you want to be north of 23% profit margin shooting for 30% net profit margin in your business” as a baseline for success.
Employees that are aware of and bring value to the table are employees that will increase the value of your business in return- steer clear of creating human commodities out of your employees. “The people run the processes, but the processes run your business.”

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:30] The Guys start the episode talking about a passion of Brad’s- motorcycles. The conversion leads to Brad sharing a new toy of his, the new 2020 iPad Pro, with awesome keyboard features that may finally be an ipad that can double as a laptop.

[6:29] Bob segues the conversation towards profitability- “Speaking of Brad’s new toys, all the profit that he’s making his agency… we’re going to talk about profitability today.”

There is an unknown rule of amount of revenue per head as far as your team.

[7:08] Ken: “Agency aside, you want to shoot for four times what you pay somebody in revenue… you kind of want to be north of 23% profit margin shooting for 30% net profit margin in your business.”

This includes budget for innovation and other things that grow and stabilize your company.
Marketing is a cost-heavy industry, and it can be difficult to ever have room for that if you don’t have a large enough profit margin.
There are a lot of different ways to increase profitability, and sharing those is the subject of this week’s episode.

[9:45] Brad: “I look at my business as one of the many things in my life that is going to generate revenue… I look at my business as a way to make revenue that I can take and invest in other areas that don’t take as much labor to make 10%.”

[12:15] Brad continues: “... it’s all about human resources at the end of the day… in the end it’s the human resources that make that [business] happen.”

Roughly 60% of employee’s time is actually billable, it’s very unlikely that you’ll find someone working 100% of their hours

[16:00] Ken shares about growth in some agencies he’s spoken with- the growth in linear over time, with the same amount of work being done for the same ratio of money.

Truly a profit strategy depends on the end goal, are you creating a profitable company that will feed your stability and growth of employees or something to sell quickly and is prone for growth in the eyes of someone else.

[18:45] Brad discusses the importance of building value into your company outside of just the clients you work with- clients come and go, one giant client leaving can result in 50% or more of revenue dropping off. How can you maintain that profitability even through this? VALUE.

[21:35] Ken: Speaking to the holistic view that Brad talks about- business model isn’t just about that business, truly a holistic part of his whole life plan.

“The less you rely on the thing, the more healthy your relationship with that thing can be.” This applies to life in general, but is also a great way to think about your business. Life model is separate from your business model, but the more stable and healthy each of those relationships are, the less reliant you become on the other.

[24:29] Bob: Talks about the struggle of business owners with walking the fine line between people as commodities inside of your business. Often as you scale, employees become more commodities than people.

[25:56] Ken rejects that model of ownership- “If your business is based on humans, and those humans are commoditized.... Then as you go up and down, you’re inevitably not going to be able to retain or attract the thing that you actually sell.... Which is the humans.”

[27:17] Ken continues: “Our company… I call it a hybrid agency because there’s agency services that we do but ultimately I’m trying to build a brand that has equity and that has multiple products, one being a service that we give, others being other products… I see our business as a distributor of experience and knowledge.”

His goals in building a team is brick by brick, building up a base without losses and time wasted in retraining people.

[32:30] Brad shares advice for any employee out there listening- make sure you are making the company money and providing value for your presence. If you feel that you could leave and be replaced by someone in 2 weeks without a hiccup, you know you haven’t created any real value for your boss or the team.

[39:50] Bob speaks about how often, agencies are selling knowledge more than creativity or execution.

[41:21] Bob asks: “Is there a model that you guys follow? How do you track profitability? What are the basics that someone listening can understand?”
[42:13] Ken: Before you can figure out how to adjust your employees or long-term plans, you need to know where you’re at right now. Know how much time you put into something, and make sure you’re paying yourself to do that.

For many agencies, there is an expansion and contracting that can be scary if you don’t know where it’s coming from or how to track it.
30% net profit at the end of the day should be baseline, and know how much you’re making per employee. Are they bringing in that revenue?

[44:34] Brad: Anthem does a few estimates, for the client yes but also for the sake of the team. There is a statement of work that is held to the price to allow for scope creep

One model is bottom up, looking at cost but also monthly hours per employee and tracking their work closely… “I do that just to give some peace of mind… that we’re going to be profitable on a project.”

[47:00] The Guys speak about tracking hours and how it can impact the psychology of employees to constantly track their own productivity. Next episode will cover this topic!

View Details

Summary:

In our last episode we started to unpack the current media buying model and discuss why we believe it’s no longer effective. In this episode we start to practically discuss what a re-engineered advertising model could look like for our agencies. We all know there is no perfect model, but there is a better one. One that takes into account the various platforms skills required, creative refreshes, budgets and more. The way we market has changed in the last 70+ years, with more platforms than ever the service structure of media buying needs to change as well.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Are your fees really covering the work required to be successful? Can you decouple ad spend from your fees?
Make sure you’re only responsible for what you can control. There are many factors that are part of the success of a campaign that you do not control. Educate your clients on this reality.
Consider creating (or hiring) Holistic Marketing Team, consisting of a Strategic Marketer role, Creative Role, an Ads Engineer, and an Analyst. This way, your business can operate out of several perspectives at once and work together to provide the most value for clients.

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[2:26] Bob introduces this week’s episode- Part 2 of Media Buying. We’re talking about pricing, current models, and how to evolve your pricing within the ever-evolving world of digital marketing.

The real question circles around the traditional 15% commission in media buying
Bob asks: “Let’s peel back and be real transparent. What have you done, what are you currently doing, how do you make money on placing media right now?”

[3:58] Ken: “It’s my opinion that people see ad buying, media buying as a commodity. And so we don’t try to compete on that.”

You have to spend enough to be able to support them really really well. Depending on the agency, that number is different. You have to stay on top of the platforms that change constantly, and you have to be a really really good marketer.

[5:10] Ken continues: “If we’re talking pricing, we separate out each platform because they’re different, they take different skill sets and there’s different intent.” The purpose of one platform may not be the same as the next, and so your philosophy behind each is going to be different.

Starting fee per platform- manager fee of $3K per month baseline, with increased percentage as the projects get larger. They would like to move away from that increased percentage, but ultimately that $3K baseline is not enough to manage platforms correctly on a daily basis.
Setup fee included for each platform, to allow for tracking and getting correct data in the very beginning.

[7:42] Ken: Speaks about different clients and the different parts of the process they dip their toes into. “There’s a certain amount that I believe has to come from the brand. So the heart and soul of the message has to be there, whether we do it separately or the brand has it… I don’t think you can just come in and start writing for the brand and have it feel authentic and work.”

Images, creative, videos, photography- all these have to come from the brand then Metacake layers strategy on top of that.

[8:58] Ken: “There are certain factors that really drive cost, and reporting is one that no one talks about, but is very important and time consuming.”

Metacake has a basic version of that and a plus version of that. “Once we get to heavy levels of budget, 10, 50K a month… you really need to have that expertise in analyzing and knowing what’s going on.”

[10:12] Brad speaks about the importance of agreeing with your client about which indicators you’re going to work from. Often as you share information, the client will want to know more and you dig into that information and before you know it, you’ve double the hours you originally agreed to spend doing research and not getting paid for that work.

Define what you’re measuring against early on, and that any additional information or strategy will be an additional cost.

[11:00] Ken speaks about Metacake’s model away from that specific issue- we’re trying to adjust our model based on role.

A holistic marketing team means you have the strategic marketer role, creative roles, and an Ads Engineer. Most technical mind that REALLY knows the platform well.
You need someone who can just think about the customer from their perspective and then work with someone who really knows how to take that and translate it into the nuts and bolts of how we get the most out of the platform.
The last role is an analyst- who’s reading the data and gleaning next steps from that information.

[14:15] Brad: Some clients at Anthem are still being rebilled after the agency fronts the bill for the media, but they are trying to move away from that, as it is such a high risk.

“We are definitely going to a model where every customer that we set up controls their own ad account.” Either they use their own credit card to pay for digital space, or they pay upfront before any work is done.
Working with a startup is difficult here, because often they don’t have credit cards with a high enough limit.
“We’re going to take away the commission and we’re goin to solely start building a model on expertise... And management costs.”

[17:00] Brad continues: There is a LOT of work done upfront for most clients, a deep understanding of their brand and customers. Educating clients on this process, explaining that ads are just a small part of a strategy (the pitcher in a baseball game, but we need ALL the players to win!) and there is so much more to their growth and customer journey.

Defining the customer’s emotional level of engagement in different parts of their journey is SO important to building an appropriate customer funnel.

[20:25] Brad speaks about how some clients don’t have an appropriate understanding of Customer LTV or Lifetime Value. And if they can’t understand the importance of that, there is a LOT of education ahead of you to work with them and be successful.

[20:40] Bob recalls meeting with a local agency recently, and he asked how many of their clients were aware of their customer’s lifetime value. Even decent-sized, older companies still don’t know what a lifelong customer relationship looks like.

[22:00] Bob continues: “Logic says, if I put in a dollar, I want at least that or more out… Understanding lifetime value gives you a whole wide range of what success looks like.”

[25:49] Brad talks about common blind spots with new brands. “They haven’t priced into their model the cost of customer acquisition properly… let’s say I’m selling widgets for $10. And my cost of goods is $5. They think that they should only spend 20cents to get a customer.”

Actually, the opposite approach is true- you should think of your customer acquisition as the biggest cost.

[29:40] Brad continues: “We do have a minimum, and it does fluctuate… our minimum would definitely be $2K a month but it really does depend on the work and it depends on the short term scope.

As the campaign evolves, the pricing has to evolve as well, it has to scale up.

[33:11] Bob: “I think it needs to be handled on a case-by-case basis, just as you would the creative, the packaging, the development, the way you treat everything else.

[35:34] Ken talks about how your message and advertising needs to be the same across all platforms- but doing this on several platforms is a lot more work. So Metacake charges around $10-$15K a month for these multi-platform, broad scope campaigns.

“You’ve got to take into account the whole customer journey to really get the most effect out of it.” This is why Metacake has moved towards a coaching model.
For clients who are doing their marketing themselves, don’t have the money to hire an agency full time, coaching is a great option for these clients.

[38:40] Bob introduces another model we haven’t covered yet- a model where clients don’t pay unless the agency produces.

[39:21] Ken’s experience with this model has shown that it requires a LOT of trust on both ends. There needs to be proof of trust for both, and it is more of a partnership than a client-agency relationship.

[40:00] Brad: “If my payback is based on their decision that I have no control over, then I’m just a silent investor.”

[43:20] Ken: “I think that the mentality, if there’s not maturity around what it takes to take on investment on your company and what it means for someone to be invested in your company, then I think that it’s probably going to be a slippery thing.”

[50:56] Ken: “There’s two parts to basic business success- and it’s one, having a great product, but that’s no good if you don’t have a great brand, which inherently means people know about you and care about you.”

On performance-based pay model: “What I think might be better is maybe have a performance incentive versus being paid on performance.”

View Details

Summary:

In our coronavirus world, more and more businesses are turning to agencies for digital advertising. But the old model of percent of ad spend has a TON of flaws. It’s misaligned with the client, it doesn’t account for creative creation, creative refreshes, platform differences, and the list goes on. With the core platforms like Facebook being commoditized left and right, there is an increasing need for agencies to communicate their unique value in the equation. In today’s episode we are diving into the broken service model of media buying as we begin to rethink it for our own companies.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Attribution can be a distraction. Platforms like Facebook may not look like they are producing results, but that isn’t necessarily the case. Awareness has value, and you see that regardless of what attribution says.
The ease of use of the digital marketing platforms means you can no longer hang your value on execution. Execution is seen as a commodity although it isn’t one. The truth is your value is on your knowledge and experience. You must educate your clients and position your value appropriately.
Don’t be so broad that you’re nothing to nobody, and don’t be so specific that you are vulnerable for disruption. Specialize your agency in smart ways so you aren’t just another ____ agency..

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[1:27] Bob introduces today’s episode: media buying. Gives a brief overview of media buying.

Prior to the late 1990’s, advertising and marketing agencies had been bundled together. Then those departments split and media buying became a separate entity.

[3:18] Brad talks about his experience in traditional advertising.

The question is: does the old way of advertising need to change, has it already changed, and is there a better model for businesses (especially a smaller or mid-sized agency)?
In the past, it was hard to know what tv ads had actually attributed to direct sales. Digital marketing has changed that! True ROI is available to an extent, but time is needed to measure and read those results.
There is still maintenance, but not the same as in the past.

[7:30] Brad continues: Savvy clients will try to negotiate and “nickel-and-dime” agencies over commission costs. They want to know exactly what it is that you’re doing with that 15%, but so much of what that is used for is difficult to explain and sort of nebulous to the client.

[11:00] Ken: “Here’s the challenge I see with buying ads and that being your service offering… I think from the outside that is seen as a commodity…”

[12:25] Brad: “I think the media buying for most clients see that as just a commodity task that isn’t creative.”

[12:30] Ken: “The challenge is that it’s not a commodity- it’s seen as that. It presents a real challenge, because the question is how do you compete in a commodity market- you compete on price.”

[12:47] Bob: “I’m convinced that things become a commodity when things become common and accessible…” Anyone with an internet connection can create and place a Facebook ad right now. That is a commodity.

[14:07] Ken: Digital channels are making it easier by the day for anyone to launch those ads and do those kinds of things.

The creative and strategy behind Facebook ads is not a commodity, so Metacake has focused on positioning themselves as being different from others that can create ads

[15:48] Brad speaks about wrestling with this in his own agency. “What does that future look like when it comes to media buying and how should we charge the client for our time and energies for that?”

[16:54] Bob talks about how much the purpose of advertising has changed. In the past, everybody was pretty much on the same page. “We’ve got a product to launch, create awareness, and we want people to buy the product.”

But now there are awareness campaigns, branding campaigns, etc. that have created the need for specialization and strategy.
The testing side of digital marketing means you can see results in real time and pivot strategically as needed.

[18:30] Brad: “The initial strategy isn’t the heart and soul of your campaign. The heart and soul is tweaking that campaign and measuring the results and continuing to refine that campaign over time to get the best results. It’s the refining that takes time and measure and pitting two campaigns against each other, AB testing and looking at different language and looking at different audiences that are responding better. That’s really the heart and soul.”

FB advertising isn’t really marketing advertising, but focus groups to get to know that audience. There is HUGE value in this.

[20:11] Ken: “How do you, as an agency, position and create a strategy that does not rely on the nuts and bolts and de-commoditize them as much as possible.”

[21:45] Brad: “We try to educate our clients that there is a fee that is going to be an ongoing fee that you’re going to need because it’s not just start it and let it run by itself. There's actually a lot of work that goes into it, and we don’t want to do something for a client that doesn't allow us the money or the resources to be able to do that… because we know that that’s what’s going to get the end result.”

[22:57] Ken recalls the last episode, where we talked about the idea of not having enough to create success. Knowing what you need in order to be successful is important.

[24:01] Bob summarizes Ken and Brad’s point: “If you still want to do ad buying and you’re struggling with what to do, position yourself either within a niche that you know really really well, OR become an expert in testing and deciphering for the client.”

People are looking for experts! Especially now after the pandemic, they realize digital marketing is the future.

[25:45] Brad predicts that in the future, there will be other platforms that do what Facebook does.

[26:15] Ken talks about how many apps are making it easier than ever to step in a become an expert. They want people to be able to set up an ad and walk away, but for an agency this means building value into the work you do- the daily upkeep of digital marketing is the future!

You’d hire Metacake for your Facebook campaign based on 20 years of experience in ecommerce- not just to manage your Facebook budget.
So often companies wind up competing in the commodity market of Facebook

[30:02] Brad asks: What are the risks of buying media for an agency and where could you eliminate the risks?

Anthem has tried many models- buy the media for the client and take a percentage of that. These charges would be charged on a credit card. Sometimes clients wind up not paying and you’re stuck with a large monthly bill on their behalf.
Anthem is moving away from this model

[35:07] Bob speaks about how that mindset change is creating need for CRO experts, people who can increase conversion rates by 2%, 10%.... They’re looking for specialists and agencies who can get them across that finish line.

Today it’s about so much more than just media buying “You’re providing a system architecture of how you take their product from point A to point B.

[37:22] Brad speaks about “programmatic marketing.”

[37:45] Ken talks about how Metacake is moving away from the traditional media buying model.

“We offer coaching, ads coaching in different platforms… we’ll give some feedback and oversight…” This equips companies the way that they want to be equipped, instead of forcing them into a model that doesn’t fit.

[39:47] Brad asks for some insight into what Ken charges initially and what is covered in that cost. There is so much work in the forefront for many companies that has to be done, branding-wise. So that process is built in 100%

[43:11] Brad: You can drive a ton of people down a specific funnel, but if the infrastructure isn’t set up it’s like the catcher having a hole in his glove. There are things that need to be resolved and fixed… “Restructuring, redoing their customer journey, refining their ecom platform because it’s confusing.”

Hotjar- models for conversion in real time

[45:10] Ken speaks about how clients will sometimes step into the process and confuse the optimization process- educating away from this tendency is valuable.

[46:38] Brad speaks about how many campaigns are based on just getting people to a website or a landing page, but not taking actual action. Knowing the cost of true customer acquisition is important- many clients would not know this because their agency didn’t tell them it was important.

[48:05] Ken brings up another point of education: Not every campaign is meant to sell things, some are just focused on awareness.

[50:46] Brad talks about the difference between different ads and how important it is to let your clients know what it is that they need and the real work that is involved.

[51:32] Bob: “That’s the value that agencies should be bringing- Depending on what your budget is, what is the correct strategy to help you be successful?”

[52:01] Ken stresses the importance of educating potential clients of what they actually need to be successful. “What are you trying to do? What stage are you at and what are some of the things around your business…. What budget do you have and what are your expectations?”

“You have to be able to have the experience and the knowledge on the business side and marketing side and all that goes along to create a strategy and assess those things and really coach somebody…”

View Details

Summary:

We all want new streams of new business, and today’s guest shares how they were able to build a healthy business serving other agencies. We’ve talked about the value of partnerships and collaboration with other agencies as a source of new business before and Oyova is a prime example of that. We also discuss the pros and cons of having business partners. And we get another look at how an agency is dealing with the effects of COVID-19. Tune in as Jon shares his experiences (good and bad) with business partners, talks about the impact that technology has had on his career journey, how Oyova has held up during the last 6 months of extreme disruption, and what he expects of the remainder of 2020.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Consider other agencies as potential partners rather than competition. If the character is high, then risks are low.
When determining whether someone is a good business partner for you, ask yourself if you’d mind getting a call from that person on a Saturday morning. If you don’t LIKE your partner in life, a business relationship is sure to fail.
Maintaining steady business growth through any disruption means applying Positive, Persistent Pressure in sales scenarios. Speak to the heart of your client’s business, and remind them of the services you offer and how it would benefit them.

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About our Guest:

Jon Tsourakis: President and co-owner of Oyova, a Florida-based, full-service technology and marketing agency. He is the leader of a Mastermind for Digital Agencies and host of “The Climb”, a podcast where agency owners and marketing leaders tune in to get growth tips and strategies for growing their businesses.

Learn more about Oyova
Join the Mastermind: DigitalMastermind.com
Check out The Climb on Apple Podcasts!

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[1:08] Ken introduces our guest, Jon Tsourakis. President and co-owner of Oyova, a technology and marketing agency. John is in charge of sales and marketing while his partner handles the production and operation of the business. They’re based in St. Petersburg, FL. John also leads a digital mastermind group for agencies.

[2:52] Bob asks John to tell us about his agency.

[3:01] John responds: There are about 30 people on their team between two offices. They focus predominantly (60%) of their business on development. They also do marketing services for companies that are over $2 million, all shapes and sizes above that. In addition they work with a lot of agencies and help with their overflow work.

[3:38] Bob: “Is it full service? Do you specialize in anything specifically?”
[3:46] John responds that they are full service, although that pains him because there are so many great arguments for specialization.

Biggest strengths are understanding the mechanics of technology and marketing.
On the marketing side, “we can create some really impressive lead growth through third engine optimization.”

[4:20] Ken: “It sounds to me like you are specialized, it’s just not industry specialization… one of your specialties seems to be this relationship with agencies.

[4:50] Brad asks if the work they do for other agencies is mostly dev work.

[4:58] John responds that 90% of what they do is dev work. “A lot of agencies will have one or two developers on their staff… but that’s just not in their wheelhouse, so we come in a fill that gap.”
[5:25] Brad asks what John thinks the percentage is of agencies out there that don’t have deep dev in-house.

[6:05] John: “I would say it’s probably 85% of agencies that don’t have a super deep tech bench. They’re very focused and specialized and they have a developer that can wear some other hats…” but ultimately most of them don’t have the experience in development that his agency can add.

[6:28] Bob: “I’m curious to know of the agencies that you work with- are they typically traditional older agencies? Are they digital agencies that don’t have the depth? Are they hybrids? What does your client makeup look like?”

[6:47] John: “Some of them have just moved away from paper in the last few years and have embraced what the internet is… other are very advanced platinum HubSpot partners that just run into situations that are outside of what they’re great at… there are others that are amazing design agencies that have really good front end developers who run into overflow that they will send to us because they know we can take care of it.”

Other than that, many want to take on an ERP (Enterprise Resource Management) based project because they can see the revenue in that and they can bring Oyova on at the partner level.

[7:45] Ken talks about recent episodes about cost and pricing. Oyova serves agencies, and one of the things they have to accommodate for is cost. Agencies are selling at a certain price that you have no control over, so cost has to be below that. “How do you make that model work?”

[8:07] Jon responds- cost is definitely a factor. They sell everything in blocks of hours, so the more hours you purchase then the lower your cost will be. Some agencies buy a LOT of hours, just to have access to their team.

“Others will just do it on a project basis… when agencies are white labeling someone else, the really smart ones get sick of that because they realize the inefficiency in it.”

[9:26] Brad asks about billing- do they bill the client directly, or do you bill through the parent agency you’re working with?”

Jon responds that it depends on the agency that they’re working with, they try to be respectful of how they want the relationship managed.

[9:55] Bob asks if they have built this model intentionally and whether they aim primarily for agencies or individual clients.

[10:09] Jon gives a brief history of how he and his business partner met. It was an accidental discovery at first, they were a marketing agency with two developers, they’d get overflow from other agencies and then after 8 years realized it was a great business model.

[11:57] Ken asks Jon for a deeper history of his business relationship with his partner and the pros and cons of that relationship. He also asks about what Jon expects for the next few months within his company. First, Jon’s story.

[12:28] Jon: His father was a master carpenter and builder, so he was part of the family business. He met a guy at school that had a marketing company that worked in the healthcare space. He worked with this guy for a while, and in 2009 he decided to start his own agency.

Around 2013, 2014 he realized that partnership wasn’t working and they had a disastrous breakup, Jon was left high and dry.
He decided to work with his current partner and over the years they developed a great working relationship.
Jon says the best part of that relationship is that they can fill in the gaps in each other's strengths and weaknesses. Where Jon sees shiny things, his partner sees dull things and can bring him back to earth when excitement takes over.

[15:16] Jon continues: “For years, we’ve just been fighting the good fight, trying to be an agency in a world of sameness, create differentiation… a merger sounded like a really good idea based on the technology depth and the strategic advantage of being a strong partner.”

[16:13] The guys ask for details about that bad partner relationship.

Jon responds that he was a brilliant developer but just not on the same page about a lot of communication things, there were some psychological differences in the way they thought about professionalism. The client called and strongly advised that unless that partner went away, there would be serious problems for their company.
There was a huge vulnerable, humble moment that allowed him to realize that the relationship was destructive.

[17:22] Bob asks for some advice based on those learning experiences.

[17:37] Jon: “The direct and gentle communication… he just couldn’t deal with people.” Do business with someone who you wouldn’t mind getting a phone call from on a Saturday morning. You have to LIKE the person you’re working with.

[18:12] Ken confirms that concept of direct and gentle communication- even in the face of disrespect in return, you always have to respond in a direct and gentle manner. It’s really about basic respect.

[18:40] Brad asks for advice for how to approach things in a direct and gentle way while things are heated or when there is stress in the company. What does that mindset shift look like?
[19:20] Jon: It’s about setting a foundation, and asking if you’re being logical and not emotional. It’s great to have those conversations with partners and asking yourself constantly what the logical next steps are. Be aware of your own tendencies and allow for those weaknesses in logic that you may have.

[20:13] Brad asks how they manage clients who are very reliant on them, who are more attached than an agency would be.

Jon: “We have an agreement that’s evergreen with our client, so they’re continually getting a percentage for essentially not doing anything just based on the engagement that they helped us create.”

[22:25] Bob asks about the longest contract they have that an agency brought to them.

Jon responds that it’s 8 years- that’s a great contract!

[23:06] Brad talks about how the more you’re in bed with technology that drives revenue for your client… “there’s always a fear that you’re going to get canned… because you become a commodity.”

[24:32] Brad asks “What kind of stuff do you do in the development world?”
[24:50] Jon responds: Mostly websites, some entire technological infrastructure for some companies where it’s essentially their ERP. “Ranges from little website integrations, all the way to the entire technological skeleton of the company.”

[28:00] Ken asks how the last few months have been managed for Jon. What was it like in the beginning of quarantine, what was it like through that process, and how has business gone since then, and if any of these things have changed how they run overall.

[29:10] Jon: The theme of 2020 was going to be The Climb, and it turned out to be more true than they thought. They came up with a plan over Zoom, and decided to stay focused on clients, closing business as much as possible. They realized very quickly that their team could definitely perform and provide results from home, and have surprised themselves with their productivity.

[31:52] Brad affirms that it’s been hard- and congratulates Jon on their success through Covid.

[32:40] Ken: “What area of your business grew? Was it new business or existing business? Is there a difference there?”

[34:14] Jon talks about how they were able to extend or increase their marketing packages, they really talked up this being “the time” to invest in online business. If you come to the table with logical, competent people and a plan, you’re set up for the highest chance of success!

[36:12] Jon talks about what the next 6 months might look like. “The path forward and the recession is going to be different for everyone. There’s going to be pocket recessions based on specific industries. And some aren’t going to feel it at all.”

[37:00] Ken asks how this may change going forward, and what sort of opportunities he might see.

[37:12] Jon talks about how the challenge of Covid is actually exciting for him, although he feels guilty about that at times. Business owners have been really lucky over the last 10 years, so now you really get to see what you’re made of.

There will likely be a lot of acquisition happening, but ultimately he feels positioned for the best chance of success.

[38:30] Ken asks “How can you package up what you actually are selling in different ways?” This is something that Metacake has done well through the quarantine.

[39:42] Brad asks if there are any new products or service offerings that have come up during Covid for Jon’s company.

Other than rapid messaging via popup websites or email blasts.

[40:20] Brad asks what sort of packages of services other than development Oyova offers.

[40:39] Jon: Other than the mastermind group, one event per year that is a collective knowledge base. “I think creating that space for all these agencies to come together and just be open and share and be transparent is important.”

Oyova spends a lot of time helping agencies scope out projects, helping them win those projects and making it an enjoyable experience to work with them.

[50:44] Ken: “You’ve built really high quality relationship with agencies that you get a sustainable business model through… how do you do that?”

[51:28] JOn: “If you connect with somebody and build relationships that are genuine, you can go a long way.”

[52:31] Brad asks about generating new business, and their business development process.

[52:38] Jon talks about the three P’s: Positive, Persistent Pressure. If you have the right message and continually follow up with the people on that list, you’ll find them.”

[53:27] Brad asks what Jon has done to become a thought leader in his space. “What kinds of things do you do to promote yourself to new clients?

View Details

Summary:

Terms and contracts are overwhelming to begin with. No one wants pages of legal documents, but at the same time clear guidelines are essential to a successful and safe relationship. In some ways this can be the most intimidating part of business ownership, and it’s certainly one of the most important. There is a “traditional” route that advertising agencies have taken in the past, but it doesn’t always work. Most agencies have developed their own terms and contracts based on their unique experiences and services Today we are sharing some of the reasons for the parts included in our own contracts. Ultimately the goal is to build healthy, safe, and successful client relationships that create awesome, long-term business partnerships. From knowing when and how to charge for creative projects, to drawing boundaries for difficult personalities - this episode is packed full of seasoned advice based on our experiences.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Your payment schedule should NOT be tied to project milestones. Often agencies find themselves at the mercy of pieces they cannot control, pushing out the project scope far past the agreed-upon end date.
There will be days that clients are under pressure, and it is important to know the difference between a bad day and a bad client relationship. Keep your energy focused on what you CAN control, not everything that you can’t control.
Establishing appropriate terms and conditions benefits the client. Clients need to be supported by a strong, healthy agency partner that is going to deliver value and growth in a healthy, stable way. This can only be accomplished through a balanced, respectful relationship.

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[2:25] We discuss Ken’s pizza-making skills (or lack thereof)! While you can’t go wrong with the classic mozzarella and basil pizza, the newest fad at his house is a pizza with arugula on top- how do you like yours?

[5:14] Bob introduces today’s topic- Contracts and Terms.

[7:00] Ken asks Brad to talk about MSA’s or Masters Service Agreements.

[7:30] Brad: Most people in agency business aren’t Masters of Marketing, they came into this business because of their passion for the product and process.

There is a common experience that agency owners become the boss and don’t have a background in how business should be done. So there is a lot of learning along the way, “expensive lessons.”
These days, Brad’s agency is fairly straightforward.
MSA written to be specific about deliverables and what the client will receive. This also means that the client has to be engaged, otherwise the process will take months longer than necessarily. MSA’s outline this timeline and process to prevent these issues and set the stage for the business relationship.

[10:51] Brad talks about a SOW- or statement of work- and what it looks like for his agency.

Includes deliverables, answers “why” questions upfront. Sort of an executive overview of the project and what the end result might look like- he’s sure to include the value that his agency is bringing to the client through specific deliverables.
“This is how many revisions you get, this is the process we take, here are the benchmarks when you’re going to need to sign off on things… here’s what is guaranteed, here’s what is not guaranteed…”
In comparison, the MSA talks about inner processes, how the agency works, hours, holidays they take… point of contact change clauses just in case things change on the client side.

[12:20] Brad continues, often he feels that providing these two large documents can feel like you’re roping a client into some lengthy legal contract… but ultimately, his agency is a business that needs guardrails in order to run efficiently.

“You have to follow that to work with us, you can’t abuse us, you can’t take advantage of us.”

[13:08] Bob clarifies: “So all of those clauses and agreements, they come from experience.”

[13:25] Ken affirms this, and encourages other small-medium sized agencies to put up those guardrails for themselves. A giant list of terms isn’t fun to dispense, but it’s necessary and also allows you to lean on character and relationship.

[14:12] Brad speaks on the experience of seeing the best in people, hiring clients being a very personal relationship in his agency.

He assumes the best, but often wonders about who they will be under pressure, how their character will change if their circumstances aren’t great. And so in many cases, these guardrails are just as much for the client’s health as yours!

[15:55] Ken speaks on boundaries. They are healthy in every relationship, but especially with clients. Set up an agreement that allows you to handle any situation with any person, regardless of their personality type. Your agreement can also help to filter out people that are not right to work with.

[17:26] Bob recalls the idea that you don’t know what you don’t know, so learning is inevitable. Because of this constant learning, there is an ongoing tendency to slowly increase the size of your MSA and SoW. There is incredible value in editing these documents every few years to make sure that every line is still applicable to your mission, vision, brand, and company.

[19:35] Brad adds that every SoW that is signed also has a clause where the client agrees with the MSA. Other companies have separate agreements for different clients, either based on project or how much they are spending, and Brad is considering that for his agency.

[20:28] Ken talks about how his agency Metacake rarely uses MSA’s. Typically is a SoW and contract.

[20:50] Brad adds that some agencies even put their MSA on their website, so that there is no excuse that the client doesn't have access to it.

[22:00] Brad shares some interesting experiences with clients in the past.

Working with creatives, often they will spend all of their hours trying to make things right- obviously creative is very subjective. He has a strong process and approach to this issue- when they pitch creative, he wraps it in a layer of rationale that they have already agreed to and bought into. Removes the subjectivity out of the pitch!
Project based relationships- beginning, middle and end payment. They never say the end payment is due at the end of the project, because often the end is pushed down the road due to client delays. Clients will always assume that the end fee is due when it is fully delivered, however that is not the case. “This payment is due on x date, not the date the projects is done.”

[25:03] Ken talks about the things that we have control over versus what we do not. “You can’t tie your success to things you don’t have 100% control over.”

[26:03] Bob: “If it’s intense, it’s yours. Meaning if there is something that keeps making you angry, even if it’s something another person does that sets you off that creates conflict… it’s something that’s inside of you.”

In a business circumstance, if a client is difficult and it sets things off inside of your team, that’s on you and your team to handle.

[27:30] Ken: Often in the course of doing business, you come across people who are working with a great deal of pressure on them. Their intense reaction is theirs, not yours.

[28:05] Bob dials it in- “If there is something that seems to be happening with a client or continuing to happen in your agency or with your team, it’s probably something you’ve got to fix internally.”

[28:31] Brad says he tries not to talk badly about your clients, as that is a mindset that can fester and have certain poor results. ESPECIALLY as a leader, never talk badly about your clients!

[37:30] Bob asks for 3 things an agency needs to cover in their agreement.

[37:35] Brad: Scope Creep. Make sure your scope of work, timeline is reasonable and make sure your client agrees. There are changes, delays, etc and one month projects become three month projects.

[38:27] Bob adds: Terms of payment- are terms of payment tied to milestones in the project or not?

[38:52] Ken talks about taking monthly payments- this means there is no question of why money is being pulled, no misunderstandings of timeline. Time and cost are associated, but ultimately when you sign an agreement for scope, you’re agreeing to payment as well. De-coupling payment from milestones is an enormous thing to overcome.

Setting expectations in a really solid way is a category within that agreement.

[41:00] Brad adds: Limit your time based on creative. Somehow, put together a process within your agency- add benchmarks within every part of the project so that is things change later in the process, the client knows they have to pay for those changes.

[43:30] Ken: “A lot of agencies just operate fluidly, organically… I would really encourage everyone to think through- what is the formula for success? It’s a process…. Business is systems and processes and people are just there to manage it.”

Ask yourself: What is your process that creates success and prevents the largest number of potential problems?

[46:55] Brad talks about how it may be helpful to write into an agreement that you will review the Statement of Work together again at certain points throughout the project, to maintain expectations.

This is especially valuable for clients who are creatives and dreamers. Often they will present ideas and be excited about projects in the future when current projects aren’t finished yet- reviewing the statement of work will help to keep pace with your boundaries and expectations.
Capture their future ideas, keep track of where they want to go and listen to those ideas as they come, but also keep the train on the tracks.

[57:45] Ken: “I would say you constantly need to revisit it [your MSA], and it is always this balance between it being too much and just enough.”

Metacake scopes projects by what we will do, maximum amount of effort involved, and the maximum timeline. Be aware of the things that are cost drivers, call them out.

[58:57] Ken adds another element that should be covered- protections against bad character.

“You’ve got to have a reasonable amount of protections in case someone has ill intentions… ”
Think about worst case scenario, relationship-wise. And protect yourself for those situations.

[1:00:49] Brad encourages you to add terms as you deem them necessary and then simply see if clients will agree to sign- and if not, discuss and figure out how to change that language to something that clients are more comfortable with.

[1:01:05] Ken: “The more terms there are, the less likely people are to read it… I want them to read everything.” So if you need to refine specifics and reiterate the important parts, do so! Make sure your terms are actually readable.

Even in your scope deliverables, reiterate your conditions and terms there as well so there is no question or confusion about what is expected of the process.

[1:02:25] Bob adds a final thought: “For a small or medium-sized agency, so much of this is born out of measurement of scope creep and cost. Many agencies may not have a process in place to know these things…” They won’t mind doing a bit of extra work here or there, extra hours or slightly extending the scope, etc.

In actuality, these are the things that you need to measure and guard. IF you can’t, it could put you out of business.

[1:03:30] Ken mentions the next episode topic: How to measure profitability and what it looks like on a realistic basis.

View Details

Summary:

When we began this podcast, our goal was to share and learn about the questions that many have but few talk about. There may be no more secretive or uncomfortable area among agencies than the topic of pricing. The result of this is many different pricing models, and clients that are comparing apples to oranges. This lack of conversation hurts the entire community. Today we’re breaking down some of those barriers. We are discussing pricing strategies, payment systems, the importance of educating your clients, true hourly cost, and more.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Basic but SO important: Pricing correctly determines the financial health of not only your business, but the value that you can provide clients.
- “Unless you’re healthy as a business, you can’t provide really good services to your clients.” - Ken
Transition to instant electronic payments. We live in the 21st century, people!
Work to make everything as clear as possible upfront. This includes scope, payment terms, payment dates, overages, etc. Many clients will require deep education on your processes and payment terms. If they are not able to see your perspective or understand your needs and requirements, maybe they’re not the best fit! Don’t be afraid to not take on unhealthy projects.

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[3:05] Bob asks Brad and Ken about their pricing models.

[4:15] Ken: Metacake has 3 basic types of pricing models: Projects, Retainers, BAI (Bill and Incurred)

The older-school model of billing for hours spent without any expectation of the amount can cause a lot of friction even when clearly communicated. We work to minimize this type of billing as much as possible.
Projects: Includes engagements with a clear start and end. Things like building an online store, development, design, strategic help.
Retainers: Ongoing services like marketing campaigns, coaching, management fall into this scope.

[6:48] Bob: “Do you try tailor the plan to the client’s needs? Do some clients prefer a fixed rate and do some prefer an hourly rate?”

[6:58] Ken: “We try not to because consistency is how we are able to deliver results… many would prefer a fixed rate as much as possible, but the nature is that many things are unknown and it’s important to acknowledge that.”

[7:22] Brad reflects on Ken’s philosophy of what matters to have a healthy business. Ken is more apt to try and get the client to work within Metacake’s processes, versus Metacake working within the client’s processes.

[8:09] Ken: “Unless you’re healthy as a business, you can’t provide really good services to your clients.”

Refers to the analogy of “put your mask on first” in the case of a plane crashing. Taking care of yourself first is necessary to help anyone around you.
Going to a coffee shop, it only makes sense to ask for coffee in the way that they make it- messing up their process means you don’t know that the product will be the best it can be.

[10:18] Brad talks about his company spending a lot of time trying to collect money from clients.

Having specialized, personalized payment plans means more work for Anthem and inefficiency all around.

[12:00] Ken: “As an agency, you should think about ‘What is the formula that makes us able to deliver this product for the value and the price, efficiently, scalably, in a healthy manner for your business so that you can stay in business.”

[12:51] Brad asks if there are situations where maybe a client is willing to commit for a year but only for a reduced rate.

[13:25] Ken: For Metacake, they do give a discount on a rate for a longer-term commitment. “If you’re going to really serve somebody, you need the ability to know that you can invest into making sure you get those services.” If you can’t really invest because you don’t have a commitment, how can you do really great work?

Metacake typically begins reducing rates around a 6 month commitment.

[14:50] Bob asks: “What do you feel are some best practices and philosophies that bring you to the table based on your experience on how to price a client and a project?”

[15:45] Brad speaks about working in the advertising world back in the day, and remembers how there were built-in measures for overages that clients didn't understand.

“Clients don’t want to pay for three or four or five half day meetings of discovery meetings and pay for it, just to understand them better so that you can actually get a real statement of work done.”

[17:43] Ken speaks on deep discovery documents - Metacake tries to avoid them unless they are paid. If they are necessary, they are fit into the first part of the project.

[19:01] Brad speaks on Anthem including that brand discovery into the first part of the project, and ensuring that there is deep value in what the client receives.

[19:40] Brad mentions how difficult it is to provide an estimate for people on the fly. “Can you give me an estimate for that… we need a website developed, can you give me an estimate for that?” These are difficult questions to answer, but only because there is a distinct lack of information and conversation around budget.

[20:15] Bob talks about uncomfortable conversations about pricing with potential clients. Many clients want an “estimate” for work but don’t want to share a budget or much about their needs. There is a “game” mentality for many people, but the reality is that budget will have a deep impact on the offerings from any agency you work with.

[21:41] Ken stresses the importance of tracking time spent talking with potential clients and setting up for discovery.

[22:37] Bob adds that when he owned an agency, they charged per proposal. “It helped in the sales process… you can pay me and execute this with whoever you want… or you can and continue to work with us.”

[24:32] Ken talks about the importance of trust. Building trust allows clients to work with you and open up about honest budgets, and the earlier on you can get to that level of transparency, the more smoothly and efficiently the sales process will go.

[26:15] Bob asks for rates!

[26:25] Ken: $195 to start, reduced to $175 for longer or larger projects.

“Our cost basis, on a net level, is in that $100 to $150 range.”

[28:30] Brad speaks about how some clients may look at what you charge and attempt to match hiring a freelancer or an in-house person with hiring an agency… “But sometimes they don’t actually do the math of even their own employees of how much it’s actually going to cost them to have that person sit there at their office.”

[29:15] Brad: “We charge between $165 and $220 an hour, depending on what we’re doing. We like to get to the point where with all our projects in the end, we’re at around $150 an hour range.”

Brad adds that with almost all clients, around 80% of them eventually start to try and negotiate on price, so they try to add padding onto the pricing to account for that. Ken provides insight into how to keep this from happening.

[30:53] Ken talks about how to combat that. Metacake doesn’t build in a buffer to negotiate on, and that sort of transparency has had good results.

[31:45] Ken asks about the guy’s average project price. Metacake‘s is between $30K and $150K.

[32:50] Brad says that for Anthem, a short term 3-4 month project needs to be around $50K to make it worth their time.

[33:05] Ken speaks about the beauty of having those difficult conversations. In having this specific convo, he is learning more about how Metacake can help potential clients that may not be the best fit- other agencies could be a better fit.

In addition, so many agencies cover their pricing that there isn’t a proper public consensus for what things cost.
Prices aren’t published online for most companies, but almost all of them have package options that they will send.

[35:30] Ken and Brad discuss the idea of posting limited pricing information on their websites, just for transparency's sake. Will it actually be enough to entice some? Will it turn others off?

[37:15] Ken: “Be aware that if you reduce something to fit into someone’s budget, it has to be successful.”

Brad and Ken talk about creating “packages” for clients that are limited and more straightforward, without customization for the product, etc. If this package is not appropriate for the size of a client but you attempt to make it work anyway, you could be doing yourself a huge disservice.

[39:15] Bob: “The lower you come down on your prices, you are communicating with your prospect what your value is.”

[40:40] Brad speaks on building brand equity. “It takes a lot of time and commitment, investment with no real immediate return.”

The higher your brand equity, the less and less you have to spend on marketing.
Companies like Tesla don’t have to spend any money on marketing, because the brand speaks for itself.
Finding clients who want to become a long-term partner to build brand equity is difficult. Most want to spend a dollar to make two, then leave.

[44:50] Ken talks about a prevalent misconception of “growth hackers” and marketing shortcuts in the digital space. “You can get the idea that it’s easy, it’s low cost, and I don't’ have to invest anything into it,” but that’s simply not possible.

“The truth is, you have to invest in something if you want to create something.”
Ask potential clients- what is the value you’re providing? Not always numbers.

[45:51] Bob: “There’s just an ignorance… not to be derogatory… they [prospects] don’t know what they don’t know.”

[46:45] Brad asks to speak about invoicing and software they use. Anthem typically has net 30 payment terms, or requires that the invoice is paid within 30 days of receiving it.

A 2-month project would be split into a downpayment and then 2 other smaller payment.s
Deposits may be around 30% of the project, with the last billing coming around when the project is finished. That last payment doesn't come after the project is over, but when the statement of work says it is due.
Many clients will say “No let’s hold off until this project is over… we don’t pay because there are no billable hours,” which results in the agency losing money.
Clients missing deadlines or requirements shouldn’t change the date that monies are due.

[50:45] Ken mentions that Metacake doesn’t send invoices, but rather receipts

Just like you can’t not pay your rent because you’re on vacation!
Making space or allowing for client delays sets up a bad precedent for receipt of payment.

[53:09] Ken continues: “We try and operate very transparently upfront, we have disciplines that are important to creating success and also to keeping our sanity and we stand by those because that’s very important… we try not to let anyone abuse those… it’s important that clients have those similar values.”

[54:00] Ken: MC’s goal is to be an efficient, smart business so that we can be really great partners for our clients.

Projects are split into equal payments over the time of the contract.
Quickbooks online, merchant accounts that are third party and secure to store payment info.

[56:35] Ken: “The expectation is that what goes on this agreement is not based on deliverables but rather effort because let’s be honest, very rarely have I seen projects where agencies have 100% control of the output deliverables… I think it’s unwise to even suggest that you, as an agency can control that deliverable 100% or that your payment is dependent on it.”

[57:33] Brad: Speaks on clients who are not prepared to participate. There is a clause in their agreement that points out charges that a client may get if they are stalling and keeping the process from moving forward.

View Details

Summary:

While we certainly don’t have solutions for all the issues we face, we know that we are ALL facing similar issues. So, we discuss them openly as well as our current strategies for dealing with them. One big issue is the slow down in B2B purchasing (i.e. agency services). Most companies just aren’t starting new projects, even in the most thriving industries. The uncertainty has caused a hesitation in the face of thriving business at times. While this certainly won’t last, what can you do to create certainty and close new business? These situations don’t mean that your business has to suffer. We know getting your discussion and sharing is one of the quickest paths to finding solutions. Today’s episode covers several topics as we see how the myriad of current events affect business. We talk products, lead flow, how to speed up accounts receivables, and more.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

The universe has a painful, but fundamental truth - there HAS to be pruning in order for growth to happen. “Constant growth is cancer… pruning is painful, but it produces more fruit.” This won’t be forever, but use whatever pain you are experiencing to improve your product.
There is incredible need for agency expertise right now- convincing clients to go online may present certain challenges, but Ken shares Metacake’s strategy for these reservations- 1) Planting educational seeds that will create thoughtful relationships and 2) Innovating your product offerings to suit new client needs.
Implement electronic automatic payment plans for your agency - the idea of real-time, electronic payments seem revolutionary for agencies, yet the rest of the world has operated this way for decades. Now is the best time to start. Ultimately, waiting for payment or chasing payments is a distraction on both ends - the relationships will be stronger and your output will be better when payment issues are removed.

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

Connect with us:

Connect with Ken at ken AT metacake.com
Connect with Brad at bayres AT anthemrepublic.com
Connect with Bob at bobwhitchins AT gmail.com

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[1:15] Bob intros new series about current events and how they may or may not apply to everyday life or business.

[1:50] Brad speaks about the happenings in his hometown of Detroit in recent weeks. With the BLM movement spurring peaceful and not-so-peaceful protests around the country, he takes a moment to reflect on people around him who are participating.

[3:20] Ken talks about the same in his hometown of Queens. “I feel like the world is groaning in a lot of ways, I think you see that with race issues, with Covid-19… There will always be problems, but there will always be good that comes out of these problems.”

This will pass, and we should all seek to learn from it and become better versions of ourselves.

[5:31] Bob reflects on the writings of philosopher Phyllis Tickle, who believes that you can see a pattern of massive shifts in civilizations every 500 years, and that’s where we are right now.

[6:15] Ken talks about the fundamental foundations of the cycles of life- they exist on long-term, short-term, daily scales. This is a part of the way that we learn more about business as well as life.

“Constant growth is cancer… pruning is painful, but it produces more fruit… as painful as that pruning is… in business there has to be a pruning in order to rise above the challenges.”

[8:23] Brad talks about how that pruning is super painful when it comes to business- letting people go who are not truly in line with your company ethos.

[9:05] Bob: “As we’ve been looking at the markets… talking about what does it mean to close deals and stay alive and pivot… there is some counterintuitive growth happening, the markets are up, employment is up… Brad what do you make of that?”

[9:57] Brad speaks about how employment numbers are up, which is surprising but comforting. “I think that consumers haven't lost their confidence, mainly because there hasn’t been a big enough pinch yet… extra unemployment runs out in July, so people have the means to survive. If we get enough jobs through the summer, I think we’ll be okay.”

[11:32] Bob asks Ken about the numbers from HubSpot.

[11:50] Ken: Stresses the reason this podcast was created in the first place- to peel back the veil behind business and agency ownership. Now is as good a time as ever to be really transparent about these things.

Hubspot released data this week that the upward trend in closing deals has gone down again.
“Businesses have been slower to act- consumers not so much.” New deals, new campaigns, etc on a business end is more risky than a single purchase as a consumer right now.
Knowing what your specialty is and being able to zero in on what you can bring to the table and how you can provide value is enormously important right now.

[15:17] Bob asks about deals they have worked on or closed in the last month. Were they started before Covid, as a result of Covid, etc?

[15:19] Ken responds that most of them are currently a response to Covid. “In our experience, the situation has created an awareness of a problem or an opportunity that they need to go after, so our inquiries have been up.”

[16:40] Brad asks what sort of questions people are asking.

[17:00] Ken says that many have intuitions or instincts that there is opportunity that they should be going after, and they want to see that through. With the world telling them that they shouldn’t be taking risks, it can be a challenge to get people to act on that intuition.

[17:50] Bob adds that there are also a lot of people who realize that ecommerce is important and are just now looking into it, only to realize the expense involved and the work that is required.

[18:35] Ken: Speaks about his direct experience talking with companies who have not made the move to fully invest in ecomm- suddenly the “website guy” is the most powerful person in the room and budget is being allocated to them and they don’t want to mess up that opportunity. So there is a lot of trepidation and information-collecting.

[19:15] Bob: Asks Ken about how to educate people on the importance of ecommerce and building a strong strategic foundation online.

[19:40] Ken talks about Metacake’s 2-part strategy for education.

2-part strategy:
- “First, investing in helping and educating.” Planting seeds.
- “The second part is innovating our product.”
Metacake gets a LOT of inquiries from new business owners who don’t have capital or any way to invest. So there is a deep need for free/affordable education that creates value in their businesses.

[21:50] Brad asks what percent of inquiries are new business versus established business.

[21:55] Ken responds that it’s a 70/30 split, with 70% being new businesses and 30% being established businesses.

[23:30] Ken continues speaking about services vs purpose. It’s so important that businesses aren’t based on the services that you provide, but the value that you’re offering and the purpose that you’re serving.

[25:45] Brad speaks about the pain of hearing from a great business that simply can’t afford the services you offer, and how it has become a mission for Anthem to create products that can meet people in whatever level they’re at, whatever they’re able to afford.

[26:30] Ken: There’s a big risk as well in making a product affordable. There’s a risk of cheapening the value of what you’re offering if you don’t charge enough. This may result in setting the customer up for not succeeding, which hurts the relationship long-term as well as the business.

[28:05] Ken: “There are 3 types of people- my money for me, my money for somebody else, somebody else’s money for me, or somebody’s money for somebody else.”

The last one is the “easiest” to deal with, as the project is less emotional and the spending is less emotional. Being aware of this is important when selling.

[29:00] Bob: “It’s better to make the client uncomfortable in the beginning so that you can guarantee success, versus taking what they have and not being sure if you can be successful from that amount.”

Making these decisions comes with time and experience.

[31:03] Brad speaks about being uncomfortable when clients aren’t getting their money’s worth in the services he is offering. Sometimes it is simply best for them to work with a different company, whether that be due to the product or other factors.

[31:16] Ken adds that agencies often tend to take on things that they can’t control. “Success is doing what you said you would at a very high level… sometimes that mean you can produce an end result that dramatically affects their business, that’s great.”

It’s important to really define what success means to you and to your client, because your definition of success might not be measured by the same metrics.

[32:40] Bob says that if you don’t get that definition of success clear in the beginning, more than 50% of the time your definition is different from theirs.

[33:45] Ken talks about how it takes a really specific personality type to do this well and consistently ingrain it into the relationship.

[34:45] Bob: Break that success down into weekly, monthly, yearly increments so that you have built-in benchmarks for measuring that and touching base about it.

[35:45] Brad talks about Anthem’s sales philosophy. They do have strong funnels developed for cold calls but most of the business he’s been in has been based on a relationship with another human. More recent leads that have been coming in have not required “game playing” to understand whether they are a good fit or not.

[38:57] Brad continues talking about “tire kickers” or potential clients who are asking a lot of questions without taking business seriously. This leads to a lot of investment of time and energy- but recently with the Covid 19 pandemic, there are less tire kickers around.

[40:00] Bob asks if there are potential clients who are sitting on contracts and “stalling.”

[41:02] Brad talks about the “sticky situation” of having loyal clients that are not able to pay on time during this time. When there is no communication from them even though the relationship is strong, it’s hard to know how to draw that line.

[42:25] Ken talks about how ultimately this is a situation that comes down to respect. “We do largely electronic payment, and this is the number one reason why.” Payment scheduled that is agreed upon in advance. “If there is a situation that comes up, let us know.”

[45:04] Ken continues: “It benefits both sides when you don’t have to worry about that… it’s a distraction, right? If you’re worrying about how you pay your bills, and you have to go chase people… that’s all a bunch of mental energy and physical energy that you can’t put into your projects.”

[48:27] Brad: “We do spend more time than we need to chasing money, and asking and trying to get our invoices paid…”

[48:58] Ken talks about invoicing and how the idea of monthly scheduled payments are revolutionary but really shouldn’t be. We don’t walk into restaurants, eat, then tell them to send us an invoice 30 days later.

There is a technology barrier that makes this sort of payment process easy but not specifically for agencies.

[50:40] Ken talks about having a mentor tell him that the agency “style” of floating large payments for 30, 60, 90 days at a time is old and outdated- and ultimately people simply couldn’t make their business last.

[51:21] Bob chimes in that as your business grows, the danger of that increases. “In today’s volatility… your clients and yourself could be $100K or one $50K invoice away from closing your doors.”

[52:05] Ken talks about how it’s not so much a pat on the back but this is a large pain point for so many, and finding a solution at ground-level to prevent that from snowballing out of control has always been priority. “There is old culture and tradition that had to be broken away… simple technology issues… why are agencies not in the 21st century?”

More businesses doing transactions in a different way allows other to see how that they’re allowed to do that as well- helps entire industry in the end, as more healthy businesses are created to do business with.

View Details

Summary:

When we launched our podcast and put together a list of possible guests, Calvin Nowell was part of that list. And today, the timing is perfect in light of the current social tensions. Calvin is a close friend and has worked in the agency world for a while now. Calvin recently started his own agency called, Cmon Creative (during the Covid-19 pandemic too!), and today we talk with him about the story of his start, the struggles he’s seen as a business owner, and his unique perspective as a black man in the agency world. In this episode we’re searching for the good, the opportunities, as we always do. No matter where you stand on the current social issues, education is key if you want to move in a positive direction. Calvin talks about his journey to starting Cmon Creative in April of this year, his experience in advertising, and what agency owners (and individuals) can do TODAY to begin moving towards broader perspectives of reaching an audience.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

The current climate of unknowns is an opportunity to positively reshape how you do business. Playing fields have been leveled in many ways, creating new opportunities to reach customers.
Diversity is an important topic in business not only because of social issues, but because it affords your business more opportunity and stability. It’s not about meeting quotas and shouldn’t be. It’s about expanding and challenging your thinking to produce a better product. A team of diverse backgrounds mean less blindspots and more awareness of opportunities and relevance to more audiences.
Perception determines reception. Be genuine. Don’t just jump on a bandwagon because others do. If you want positive movement then your actions must be consistent with that outcome. Share information and help other agencies and businesses. Collaboration is more powerful than isolation

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About our Guest:

Check out Show Up w/Calvin Nowell on Stitcher
@cmoncreative on Instagram
http://cmon.agency/
@calvinnowell on FB, IG, Twitter

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[1:05] Bob introduces this week’s guest Calvin Nowell.

[2:17] Brad welcomes Calvin to the show, speaking about their history of friendship and working together.

[2:47] Calvin speaks about his move to Franklin from Cincinnati 18 years ago. He initially wanted to get into working behind the scenes in the music industry, eventually being drawn to singing. Opportunities arose that allowed him to get into artist management, and eventually moved full time into marketing.

Worked with Anthem republic and eventually made a move to create his own agency.

[5:15] Brad asks Calvin to explain the meaning behind Cmon Creative and what led him to naming his business.

[5:17] Calvin talks about growing up in church in the black community, it’s common to hear people say “C’mon!” when they hear something they are passionate about and connect with. It’s a word of encouragement in his life, regardless of who he’s around, and became very influential in other people’s lives as well.

In the beginning he felt pressure to name his company something more “professional” but then decided to go with something he identified with and that people also identified with him.

[8:00] Brad talks about how Calvin has always encouraged him to show up and participate, which is reflected in his use of the term and the name of his company.

[8:26] Bob asks about Calvin's business in the time of Covid.

[8:44] Calvin talks about how his agency hasn’t been impacted, but his weekend job traveling with Michael W Smith has stopped, obviously.

“The opportunity field has been leveled… so I’ve looked at this as an opportunity to grow.”
In the way that Ellen is now stuck at home without all the fancy lights and equipment, now that is the situation with everyone so there is more opportunity.

[9:52] Calvin: “This is an opportunity to reshape culture versus rebrand it.”

Gives the analogy of cutting down a tree and calling it timber- that is just rebranding the tree into something new. When you take the tree and reshape it into a cabinet, it becomes something new.
“A lot of times we’ll do something and call it new, without allowing it to reshape, we just rename it.”
This is an opportunity to reshape our lives as well as our culture, business, & personal life.

[10:54] Calvin speaks on the racial tension that we are experiencing as a disruption as well.

It is heavy, but also an opportunity to reshape, it’s an opportunity to listen.
As people are trying to level the playing field so we can all be equal, we can all move forward.
We are all created to be solutions to problems- “If you’re not a solution, you’re a problem.” This applies in business as well.
Despite discomfort, I try to be a solution in these conversations.

[12:03] Bob says the idea of reshaping sounds different than other buzzwords we’ve heard a lot lately.

[13:00] Bob asks what the day to day looks like at Cmon Creative for Calvin.

[14:08] Calvin: Cmon is a full-service creative agency, helping clients connect dots strategically. They also dabble in video production, social media, Christian film studio company, non-profits.

Started the agency right in the middle of Covid, but ultimately it was a great time to do so because people were listening and there was a need.
Caused a lot of uncertainty within himself, but eventually it became clear that this was exactly what he was supposed to be doing.

[15:58] Calvin speaks on the current opportunity to speak to black voices and stand for them in a new way. He’s struggled himself to be in the business world because of both his skin and his weight- whether intentional or not, the result is that he’s had to create his own thing.

He speaks to his experience of business as a black man- things like being told by his parents that he had to work twice as hard as everyone else to make it in the white man’s world, especially with the industry he was aiming for.
More recently, in the last year or so, he’s become confident in his abilities and his work, and isn’t afraid to stand out because of the way he looks or presents himself- those things are STRENGTHS.
This goes back the name of his business- C’Mon is a cultural term that has a deep and powerful meaning for him.

[18:45] Calvin speaks about being a bridge-builder in his community. He goes to a predominantly white church, lives in predominantly white Franklin, TN. He gives examples of not seeing men like him represented in his community, and refers to the recent push to “Diversify or Else.” Ultimately, “Diversity is just better.”

From a business perspective, more opportunity, better perspective. It’s just the way to go.
“My hope is to give solutions to people and to be an on-ramp for change for people.”

[19:52] Ken asks if there is resistance towards diversity or is it a lack of education around the advantages of diversity.

[20:11] Calvin tells a story about a company he applied to work for. He got 4-5 rounds of interviews and was referred by a Sr VP.

Interview after interview led to a phone call from them. They praised his skills, but ultimately felt that as a whole that he didn’t fit the culture. He never got a full explanation of this and was truly hurt by the interaction.
“This is why I’m so passionate about giving people those opportunities, because they just don’t exist in the ad world.”

[22:53] Calvin says that big ad agencies often try to represent black or people of color but just don’t get it right, because they’re not a truly diverse company. If there were people of color in that meeting, those commercials would represent people with much more compassion and care.

[24:15] Bob speaks about unconscious ignorance as well, and his experience with many people just not being aware of their bias. In recent months, the news has become so direct with the message that unconscious ignorance isn’t really an excuse to hide behind anymore.

It’s important to make sure that everyone in the country is represented in marketing campaigns- to be proactive about it.

[24:50] Calvin says that in order to be aware of our own biases, we have to take a look at our lives and businesses and ask who’s missing. In the same way that we value young people for access to social media and expertise in that area, we rely on older people to inform us of taking care of our retirement funds. Why not with race as well? Be intentional about awareness of your bias.

[28:00] Ken: Speaks on his experience of growing up in Queens and how that impacted his cultural identity. Truly the issue goes so much deeper than skin color, but sinks into culture and tradition and so much more than just skin color. Recent events have simplified and in many cases oversimplified the issues and are not doing real justice to the socioeconomic implications.

[30:00] Calvin recalls conversations with other people of color and realizing how deep colorism goes. Not just racially.

It takes a real intentionality to be aware of color and meanings behind it.
Calvin views his business as an opportunity to step into that divide and intentionally have those conversations with the culture.
Until we are truly diverse, we don’t know what ANY of our true potential is.

[33:48] Brad asks what sort of advice Calvin might have.

[34:07] Calvin: First, look at your team and ask who’s missing. Not necessarily hiring someone right away, but keeping that blind spot on your radar.

There’s a difference between consideration and quotas. Quotas are multicolored, not multicultural. Consideration is truly valuing what others have to bring to the table and truly keeping an eye open for relationships with others outside of your socioeconomic/ cultural norm.

[35:29] Ken asks if being part of the “quota” is offensive.

[35:35] Calvin says yes but he’ll take it. “You can show people better than you can tell them.”

“Start with what’s necessary, and then what’s possible, and suddenly you’re doing the impossible.”

[38:00] Calvin continues: If anything I hope this episode inspires just one person to say hey maybe we do need to see who’s at the table and make some changes.

[40:10] Bob speaks about his black friends who own agencies. They focus on the urban market and people go directly to them when they need that perspective. Bob asks Calvin why they might have zeroed in on that market specifically?

[41:01] Calvin responds that they saw an opportunity and created a solution for a need. It’s a default because they know they can fill a need, versus being considered as an option as an agency on equal footing with everyone else.

“You become what you see.”
“Perception determines reception.”

[45:20] Ken speaks to the similarity between that struggle and others that struggle to have the financial means to be successful, the challenges within both of those to work harder than anyone else and produce at a higher level than anyone else.

[48:20] Brad speaks on his desire to be able to walk through life confident in who he is without anything else, just as himself. And says that the world would be such a better place, we would all appreciate each other so much more if we could just let go of those holdups and incorrect beliefs about ourselves.

Brad speaks about how at-ease he feels around Calvin, because he recognizes his value innately and gets excited to learn new things from someone so kind.

[50:00] Calvin talks about his lack of encouragement growing up. As a result, he never sang until college and his parents had no idea what talent he had. After therapy and life happening over time, he began to realize that there were other passions and talents he had that were never encouraged either, like his passion for advertising.

[51:50] Calvin continues: Brad gave him a chance to see what the industry was like from the inside. He was dreaming of having an agency of his own and simply needed the exposure to the process, so that was an enormous gift for him.

[53:50] Calvin talks about the impact Oprah has had on him, and his experience at her 2020 Vision event. She said “I want to encourage you this year to bet on yourself,” and shared her experience bargaining with the co-creators of her show. Their disbelief became leverage for her determination, and it obviously worked in her favor over time. This became his permission to truly step into starting his agency in April 2020.

[56:47] Calvin: “We’re all looking for validation, and I don’t think there’s anything wrong with it. We need to accept that… forget the [blm] movement and its intention or whatever, but people are simply asking ‘Do you care? Do I matter?’”

Being sensitive to that human need to be validated is an integral part of diversity and what it means to be intentional about diversity in your business.

[1:00:00] Ken mentions the quote “Proximity breeds empathy.”

Certain groups don’t have proximity, which isn’t bad unless it’s intentional. The change has to be a change of heart, has to be genuine. And that genuine quality will change other hearts as a result.
The more we take actions based on resentment, the more steps we take away from one another.

[1:03:05] Calvin: Being intentional is the first step, but you have to be PRESENT in that intentionality. Really allow yourself to see/hear/value that other person or people group. Let them know they are being heard.

View Details

Summary:

Now that everything everywhere has changed, let’s ask one of the burning questions: do you even need an office anymore? Would that huge expense be better placed elsewhere? Many companies are abandoning the office completely, so what exactly has changed? Why is it ok to not have an office now where it wasn’t 3 months ago? And is fully remote a good thing? Sure, it sounds great to work from the beach everyday, but is that really a reality that is sustainable? Today we debate these questions as we determine the new work conditions of our own agencies. We also discuss another hot topic - what services are ACTUALLY selling right now?

Resources Mentioned:

Hubspot Covid19 Sales Data

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Rethinking the way you run your day-to-day business, including where you physically do that business. The stigma once attached not having an office is probably gone for good.
In rethinking the way you run your internal business, rethink the way you provide value to your clients! Seriously, rethink it from the ground up. If prospects are closing, you need to adapt.
Don’t be afraid to ACT. Providing that feedback and helping a client find a solution allows YOU to gain new experience and even proof of success for future clients.

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[1:45] The Guys talk about the new feelings of slight freedom that we’re starting to experience here in Nashville- though many are still quarantined, there isn’t as much anxiety about being out in the world as there was three months or so ago.

[3:00] Brad: “There’s been good and bad during this quarantine… but I don’t want to take for granted the freedom that we have and the ability to just be human.”

[3:40] Bob asks Ken about new data from Hubspot.

[4:00] Ken: “One of the things I would like to know is what agency services are selling these days? What kind of leads are we getting and… how has that landscape changed?”

Hubspot’s data has been aggregated from thousands of clients, separated by industry and sorted into deals created vs deals closed. Charted from January through to May, the number of deals created and closed were as low as 40% below baseline. That number is gradually increasing, which is telling and encouraging.

[5:56] Brad asks if the guys think that part of that uptick was because of the stimulus checks that were handed out.

Overall, Americans are saving more and spending less, but also seeing light at the end of the tunnel because of the stimulus. Even still, with that glimmer of hope there is a lot of uncertainty from a consumer side.

[6:46] Bob asks: “Is this rise that we’re seeing… of business coming back going to happen quick enough to coincide with the end of the payroll protection plan, which was 90 days…. 8 weeks from however you got it.”

Recently changes were made recently that will allow an extension of the ability to use your PPP past the 8 weeks initial date. Limits to spending still apply.

[8:15] Bob clarifies: “So the question is from the time that that starts to end- the payroll protection plan… to the point where business comes back up… are things going to get better?”

[8:31] Brad talks about how many encourage others to buy in the stock market right now, while things are low. But we don’t know how long these benefits are going to last, right now people are getting a little bonus for their unemployment but that won’t last forever.

There is fear that this summer is where the recession will truly hit. In many economic spaces, the attitude is that this hasn’t happened yet, attitudes are high and positive.

[10:15] Bob talks about how this type of uncertainty and change will naturally lead to certain industries being more hard-hit than others. For example, the real estate industry is being disrupted and may be in store for even more disruption, as many companies are asking themselves if office space is really necessary for their business.

Companies like Twitter are moving to 100% work from home, opening up a LOT of real estate availability.

[11:15] Ken: “I think reexamining the things that you do just because you do them every once in a while is healthy. And I think the way we work is definitely one of those things.”

[11:30] Brad talks about how in recent months and years, there has been a natural movement towards more open spaces and allowing employees to come and go as necessary, and this change in style of work has just sped up the process of moving towards mobile and remote work across the board.

[13:25] Ken talks about how many agencies have probably felt for a long time that they don’t need an office space, and how there has been social pressure to be ashamed if you don’t have a physical presence- almost as if you’re not a real business until you have an office.

“Rethinking that… is a healthy thing.”

[14:45] Bob talks about how that need to save face exists in other industries as well. New real estate agents are told to not drive a car older than 3 years, because then it would tell the client that you’re selling a lot of houses.

[15:30] Ken mentions the mindset shift that has happened recently- that to some, having an office may actually appear wasteful and not a sign of health. Physical office spaces may have offered credibility in the past, but other things have taken the place of that.

[16:45] Bob talks about the “phases” of leveling in business- the internet was the first leveling. And now a second leveling is happening and has been expedited. Currently, the focus is more on the work, the message, and the result.

[19:19] Brad speaks to this “leveling.”

“The honeymoon’s over and the environment doesn't matter anymore… it just works.”

[21:15] Ken speaks on his experience of having a physical space that isn’t a huge, elaborate office or the standard “wow” factor that many agencies go for. Metacake has a small, 1920’s house that has many original features and is historical. It’s impressive, but not typical, interesting without being imposing. So there is a way to “wow” without being showy or grandiose about your workspace.

Even Metacake will eventually switch to a majority remote schedule and some time/days/projects at the office.

[22:45] Bob mentions that although an open workspace is a great idea in theory, “... it doesn’t take into account the uniqueness of every individual. And I think with an open workspace… some people are miserable… some people need to be sequestered. A closed door, need to be in silence. They can’t be interrupted or else they don’t function at a high level.”

[23:39] Ken points out that that also depends on the task at hand- more creative tasks sometimes thrive in that co-working environment.

[24:17] Brad says that even in his open-air office, most people wear headphones. Doing so is a way to isolate yourself, and tell everyone that you’re busy. Sometimes he wonders if they had their own office, would they be wearing their headphones?

[26:05] Ken speaks to the down side to people working from home exclusively- when there is no teaching or mentoring around staying responsible for yourself, keeping a schedule, being disciplined, being taught some of these things can err too much on the side of irresponsibility.

[25:55] Brad: “I think great mentorship happens through observing… I don’t know that through Zoom calls I could get that… being in a physical space with them, seeing how they interact with their employees, the way they keep their desk, etc…”

[29:00] Ken speaks to the challenges of bringing new people on to the team, and how a new culture of working remotely will bring new challenges to the idea of building team culture and onboarding people to the systems for success that a company already has set in place.

Previously Metacake has embraced the “working remote” concept with team remote work days at cafes, wine bars, and even a Vineyard in their area.
In quarantine this has translated to virtual happy hours and more intentional one on one interactions.

[29:41] Brad talks about how easy it might be to “get lost” and isolate themselves even further from the team… things that go on at home, dynamics that they can’t control… isolation for them might become even more difficult.

[30:27] Bob speaks about how giant companies with huge overhead are changing the overhead costs to create team-building for these people. That team-building budget has now been allocated to a weekly or twice-monthly team bonding exercise.

[31:49] Brad: “I don’t often feel the need to connect deeply with people… it’s a deficit of my own that struggles because that’s not the case of my team… it doesn’t come naturally as a need or desire to me.”

[33:05] Ken talks about how Metacake had been moving towards remote work days and being in relationship with each other even before the pandemic, so now things are moving towards that even more.

[34:55] Ken continues: “In some ways, I found that it was easier to make these deeper connections… because you had a reason to ask how someone is doing.”

The focus is productivity and work, but more so how the person is doing, how life is going, how they feel about their position and role.

[37:15] Bob mentions that his wife has talked about new business opportunities for those who can help get home offices organized, get things set up for those who are moving towards remote working. This led to deeper thoughts about new opportunities for services that we can offer our clients.

[38:50] Brad talks about employees asking for stipends to support working from home, and expresses that there is some hesitation about the challenge of maneuvering that with employees in the future.

[39:25] Ken says that Metacake has been coaching their customers to ask how they can repurpose their knowledge. “You can naturally help with those skills and that provides value.”

[41:00] Brad speaks about a live event that had a lot of RSVP’s prior to quarantine happening, so they created solutions to that virtual RSVP problem, which opened the event up virtually to a lot more people, and in turn provided more value that it would have otherwise.

“Now we have proven results and successful stories, and so we could easily do that for other companies.”

[44:33] Ken talks about new opportunities within other industries to change how you do business. Gives example of an architectural firm running in a very antiquated way, and with the pandemic that has shifted massively, the governing body of that industry has been forced to change.

Drive-in concerts are happening, drive-in theaters are becoming popular again.

[47:20] Brad talks about a client who has just recently been forced to pay via ACH instead of a handwritten check, because quarantine makes getting signatures on checks very difficult. Forced change has been great for his company!

Some companies have been surprised by how many new opportunities are opening up because of that forced change. New ideas are coming to the table that are progressive and give everyone confidence.

[49:30] Ken asks again: What are the services that your clients want?

[40:50] Brad responds: There has been a mixture of freezing up with a lack of action, and being overzealous and taking action without thinking things through.

Being a thought partner with clients is valuable- thinking through the benefits and costs of the different options they see in front of them.

[52:30] Ken: While there are clients who say they don’t know what to do or how to take action, there are more that are looking for specific solutions and thought partners to think through problems that are similar across multiple industries.

[54:20] Bob: “The opportunity now is for those of us in an agency who have done ecommerce, who have done social media marketing, who have done branding, who have done digital strategy… there’s going to be a lot of people pop up… and so to be able to separate ourselves and say that we are the experts.”

View Details

Summary:

In today’s episode, we are digging deep into the idea of maintaining a mindset of abundance when scarcity is all around. Ecommerce is growing steadily every day, products are being sold online at faster rates than ever before. Online sales alone are up 150% - that’s 10 years of growth in just under three months, yet still for most businesses and agencies these times are very difficult. The even harder part is, a scarcity mindset is essentially a slow death and you need to avoid it at all costs. In order to win new business you must be in a winning, abundance mindset. The TRUTH is, clients have more of a need for experienced agencies and specialists than ever. It’s simple - a more complex landscape means expertise is more important. There are actually more opportunities than ever before, but unlocking them isn’t easy and requires changing our thinking. How do you know how to adjust your services for the new normal? How do you convince an uncertain prospect to start a project? Where is the line between “just enough” and “too much” transparency with your team? All of these things are issues that agencies need to wrestle with to survive and grow in the new future, and it starts with the right mindset. Today we dive into how we are dealing with these issues in our businesses. So let’s dive in!

Resources Mentioned:

Reach out to us if you need help:
Connect with Ken at ken AT metacake.com
Connect with Brad at bayres AT anthemrepublic.com
Connect with Bob at bobwhitchins AT gmail.com

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Scarcity will force you into making short-term poor decisions. Don’t take a client just because they’re going to pay you. It’s ok to adjust your standards, but don’t take projects that will leave you worse off.
As often as possible, be transparent with your team about disruption and changes. “The more information good people have, the better they can solve problems.”
Do not follow the herd! Following the herd inherently means you will always be behind the opportunity. You must find YOUR path. Take calculated risks that you believe in based on your own facts.

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[2:15] Bob introduces our episode, speaking about the current state of ecommerce, asking Ken what his perspective is from Metacake as an ecommerce-exclusive business.

[3:31] Ken: “Ecommerce is sustaining a ton of businesses, and we’re in that industry. The industry is up tremendously… but we still have the same challenges, we’re no different from what others are going through… You’d think business would be through the roof… certain areas are doing really really well, others are struggling.”

[4:56] Ken: “The ability to take action is still very hesitant.”

[5:05] Brad says he’d be interested in seeing numbers on the companies that have gone online in the last couple months.

[5:38] Bob speaks about the forced habits that people have acquired. “No matter how old you are… there’s a good chance that twice as many people in the country are ordering online now, and they’ve been doing it for two months.”

There has been a massive change in the way that we all do business, and this isn’t going to go away any time soon. People have formed new habits, whether they realize it or not.

[6:38] Ken speaks to the change in other industries. Brad works with clients in the education space, and those companies have had to change faster than ever before. Where they were hesitant to go online, now it’s a necessity, so change has happened quickly.

[7:00] Brad: “For a lot of companies, going online is all or nothing. They have no other choice but to… create online value… That can be challenging.”

[7:32] Bob speaks to the importance of value now- being forced to do the same business online and being forced to create the same value and results is a challenge.

[8:08] Bob asks about some guidelines to follow to prevent lowering our standards or settling for less. Taking a client that wouldn’t be a great relationship because you need the cash influx, etc. He asks what some of those “fine lines” have been for Ken and Brad, and whether they’ve been tempted to cut those corners.

[9:17] Ken responds, speaking about the broader implications of disruption on a large scale. The Metacake team did a lot of talking about the psychology around that and figuring out how to position themselves for not only survival but success.

[10:25] Ken speaks about the idea that as you specialize and hone in on what you’re good at, the opportunity for what you can receive gets smaller and smaller. This is healthy, and it’s important to not lose that in adjusting for disruption.

[11:21] Guideline 1 from Ken: Do not lose money! Don’t take clients/deals that will result in loss of money, regardless of where you’ve been in the past.

Offer a temporary “trial period” with clients- not because you don’t trust them or you can’t be trusted, but because there is so much natural uncertainty in the air. Having that space to “try it out” and then reassess in a month or two to see if you want to continue is a great way to keep both parties comfortable.

[12:34] Brad speaks about assessing risk. Sometimes clients are more willing to take a bit of a risk and will work with you based on your past work.

There is a feeling that there may not be work in the future, but it’s a challenge to fight that pressure and maintain a mindset of abundance.

[16:20] Brad gives Ken a “for instance” situation. If a client asking for a project right away that was out of the wheelhouse of Metacake’s specialty, but there was a promise of work 6 months from now that is exactly what Metacake does, would you take the work or not? Would that have been different 6 months ago before this happened?

[17:00] Ken says they would take it! “If what the client needs is package design through the lens of an experienced ecommerce direct-to-consumer strategy, and we have the skillset to do that, then we would do that.”

If the client was purely looking for art and creative assets, the answer would likely be no.

[19:10] Ken continues by saying that if a client comes through asking for something that is totally out of Metacake’s wheelhouse, if they don’t think they can truly achieve the end result they would say no.

If it doesn’t fall inside of your processes, if it means a lot more work for you as a business owner, if you're going to have to build a system from the ground up to accommodate, that should be a clear no.

[21:22] Bob talks about something Ken said in the early episodes of the podcast, that it’s helpful to see challenges as happening “for” you instead of “to” you. That perspective shift is invaluable and SO necessary during this time.

If you’ve played with the idea of expanding your services to include something new in the past, now may be a great time to hone in on those skills and expand what you’re capable of as a company.

[22:12] Brad talks about a client that is an event planning company. They have had to pivot to becoming an online event company, and now Brad and his team have become very familiar with that and their skillsets have expanded.

[23:05] Ken speaks on the difference between forcing something to work versus there being a need where you’re rising to the occasion and fill it because you should.

[25:00] Ken talks about how “contactless delivery” is changing the landscape of business. Local pickup options are becoming more and more popular, as the need increases the processes will become perfected.

Retail stores have thrown together curbside pickup options and there is enormous room for improvement and scalability there.

[26:50] Brad talks about local mom and pop stores in Franklin, TN that have a seamless online delivery/curbside pickup option. “If that service had been available last year, they would have dominated the market.”

[27:33] Ken mentions Chick-fil-A and the system for curbside pickup that they developed before the giant disruption from Covid-19.

They were deeply invested in the technology of this long before anyone else- true innovation has really paid off.

[29:40] Ken talks about the buildup and preparation that Metacake has done previous to this disruption, and how efforts to diversify internally have paid off now.

The “down months” in Q4 of last year meant more focus on content creation and video production as a result of asking “why” when business was slowing down. Investing in that diversifying process last year is now hugely beneficial to Metacake.

[31:20] Brad: If you do decide to take on business that you haven’t necessarily done before, how do you talk to your team about it to get them to see the vision and not get nervous about something they haven’t done before?

[31:45] Bob speaks about how you have to cast the vision wholeheartedly- if you don’t believe it, they won’t believe it.

[34:01] Brad asks about drawing boundaries between yourself and your employees, how much transparency is too much transparency. Ex: Telling them that if you don’t do well with a particular client, the company will go under.

Ken speaks to the amount of shame attached to failure. There is a higher tolerance for failure these days, because everyone is trying new things. This gives you the ability to be more honest.
Struggle is inevitable these days, so you can share more without being seen as weak or incapable.

[36:48] Ken: “The more information good people have, the better they can solve problems.”

[37:12] Brad speaks about how times of perceived failure are when he has grown the most and learned the most. Taking on risk may not go as well as you’d like, but be cognizant of what you’ve learned and that is sometimes more valuable than the money.

[38:00] Bob talks about looking at things with an abundance mindset versus a scarcity mindset. We have seen directly what happens when a scarcity mindset takes hold.

He admits that even he succumbed to the toilet paper stress, a true example of “what you focus on expands”

[40:20] Brad talks about true uncertainty, truly not knowing what choice to make. Often this means making the best of the wrong choice. You have to learn to trust yourself and look at your true track record, accounting for what you’ve learned from mistakes.

Saying yes to an unknown client that excites you and drives you to motivation and movement towards growth is definitely a better bet than saying yes to those that don’t excite you.

[42:30] Ken urges against “following the herd.” If you’re always following the herd, you’re always behind someone else or behind where you need to be to truly be a leader. You’re always stuck asking why you can’t see out ahead of where you’re at.

Difficult to innovate, less willing to take risks that they believe in.
Sometimes doing the counterintuitive thing is what’s best for you, depending on what you believe in.

[44:35] Bob talks about how this is a time for thinking about things that you may have been too fearful to truly assess before. Things like overhead via an office space, working from home, scaling back to smaller versions of what worked before.

The world- and expectations- have changed. So this is the time to start making those hard decisions and leaning into the change.

[46:00] Brad: “Sometimes the easiest way to make revenue is to cut expenses.” Basic but also necessary.

[47:15] Bob asks: “What’s the biggest pivot or change that you’re seeing with some of your clients? Are you seeing your long-term clients making massive changes or are they fearful and inching ahead?”

[47:45] Ken speaks on the fear-based mentality that is pervasive for good reason. Those who aren’t succumbing to that fear are obvious.

Not a whole lot of major changes either way, for Metacake. But they are looking to encourage clients to make major moves that will create long-term health and growth.
A “deer in the headlights” response is common, so Metacake is trying to massage that fear away and encourage small steps toward action instead of freezing up in fear.

[49:30] Brad: Existing customers with large businesses probably felt more of a frozen response than other smaller entrepreneurial clients who are more optimistic and energized about finding solutions.

For the most part, clients have gotten into a routine and have begun to see the end a bit more clearly.
Seeing small “wins” for clients who have successfully pivoted has been encouraging as an agency as well.

[52:23] Bob talks about how agencies need to start seeing themselves as producers and psychologists. “When it comes to marketing, consumers are smart… and when it comes to media, you’ve got to create it.”

You have to understand the mind of the individuals as well as the product.

[54:11] Ken talks about how in the past, the client was demanding things from the agency, but these days the agency is the expert and it’s the agency job to educate the client.

[55:15] Brad, Ken and Bob give their email addresses, so if you’re looking for an agency to partner with, reach out to them! BAyres AT anthemrepublic.com and ken AT metacake.com and bobwhutchins AT gmail.com

View Details

Summary:

In today’s episode we have guest Jay Myers, co-founder of Bold Commerce - arguably the world’s largest ecommerce app company. Jay shares some of the secrets that have been key to Bold’s success as well as the method he uses to set and achieve business goals in any climate with a team of over 300 people. His business is a great example of experimentation, listening to the customer, and adjusting until they found their stride. Now he is able to passionately lead a team of over 300 people through the challenges of surviving and thriving in business and in life. Bold was one of the first app companies on Shopify, and is not a key player in the global ecommerce space.

Resources Mentioned:

Measure What Matters: How Google, Bono, and the Gates Foundation Rock the World with OKRs by John Doerr

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Focus on Your Customers! When you start to focus on the competition too much, you start to veer more towards what they are doing and not focusing on what makes you special and unique. Instead focus on your business and your customers and let them guide your decisions.
While the global pandemic has left many companies with losses, there are also a TON of opportunities to shift and grow through this- a combination of creativity and innovative technology solutions are helping many local brands reach customers in a whole new way.
When it comes to setting goals, choose 1-5 objectives important to your success and then identify measurable metrics as indicators of your progress towards each objective. This is the OKR method. Using this concept for group goal-setting as well as team and individual goal-setting is a great way to ensure that everyone in your organization is on the same page AND can pivot quickly if needed.

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About our Guest:

Jay Myers: Co-founder of Bold Commerce, possibly the the longest-running app company in ecommerce, that provides solutions for the world’s most innovative brands.

Jay on LinkedIn
https://boldcommerce.com/

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[1:10] Ken introduces our guest, Jay Myers, a Founder of Bold Commerce.

[2:25] Jay thanks Ken for the intro and speaks about the value of teamwork and cooperation in the founding of Bold. He has 3 business partners that all brought unique skillsets and visions to the table, and Bold could have never existed the way it does without all four of them.

Jay loves the Agency Exposed podcast! He speaks on the idea that “knowledge is power” and how he takes an opposing stance. The real power and value is in SHARING knowledge.
“The companies that are going to win are the ones putting in the work, executing day in and day out… if they’re a competitor, they still have to out-hustle us.”

[3:53] Ken asks Jay how competitors have impacted him. Jay speaks about how his view about competition has shifted over the years.

[5:08] Jay: “When you start focusing on the competition too much, you start drifting into that lane… what you need to focus on is your customers, you need to listen to you customers, there will always be competition and that’s okay.”

[5:51] Brad asks Jay to clarify what Bold does and how it is used in ecommerce businesses.

[6:00] Jay summarizes his journey to Bold. From an early age he was passionate about online stores (since 1998 when he was 18), eventually moved one to Shopify and noticed their app store.

Eventually teamed up with a couple guys after seeing the opportunity. Bold started as an app company with a suite of apps, everything from subscription programs to upselling and bundling membership programs.
Bold is primarily a Shopify partner, but also Big Commerce and Woo Commerce.

[7:41] Ken: “Correct me if I’m wrong, Jay but doesn’t Staples run on your checkout right now?”

[7:53] Jay speaks about Staples and their price tools engine product that allows dynamic price changes.

[9:40] Bob asks for Jay’s perspective of the pandemic and what he’s seeing and predicting for the future.

[10:38] Jay talks about how he’s expecting ecommerce to experience a second wave very soon. Prior to the pandemic, global ecommerce was hovering around 17%, and over just the last month it has shifted to 30%.

[11:45] Jay speaks about how the internet has impacted local merchants negatively over the last 15 years. When a customer can find a cheaper price for the same item from a factory across the world, that local merchant has lost out on that business.

But what’s happening now is that local merchants are solving the issues they’re facing with creative ecommerce options. Local merchants will go online and the strength will be put back into their court.
There is enormous opportunity currently for companies that can come up with creative solutions to bring their store experience online. While it’s an unnerving time globally, for many entrepreneurs have never seen this kind of explosion of growth and it’s EXCITING.

[15:08] Ken adds that he has had similar thoughts. “That creative problem-solving is what’s going to help you succeed through this.”

[17:34] Jay speaks on one example he’s seen: “People are cancelling their subscriptions like crazy, but also people are signing up for subscriptions faster than they ever have…. It’s really brought to light what people value.”

[18:13] Ken speaks about how businesses are doing the same thing, they’re shaking up their expense and reprioritizing them.

[19:35] Ken asks Jay what his leadership style was prior to this and how that has changed during this crisis.

[20:03] Jay speaks about opening their Austin office back in January and how things have changed since then.

There is overcommunication happening at all levels within their 350-person company. Teams are meeting daily via Zoom or Google hangouts. A “town hall” meeting happens 3 times a week and everyone participates. One-on-one meetings have ramped up and when people ask “how are you” the question is taken much more seriously than ever before.
They are focusing on transparency overall, because the more information employees have about the real state of the company, the more opportunity there is for them to step in and fill the need and provide solutions.
Around 70% of their staff doesn’t have kids, so they are even more productive than they were previously.
One of their buildings was reaching max capacity, so now there is new focus on how necessary buildings really are, how a partial work from home schedule may be the smarter move at the end of the day.

[27:45] Brad adds that he thinks companies will realize they don’t need huge buildings and giant parking lots anymore, that they can downsize to half the space and create a more laid back coffee shop vibe for their employees.

[28:35] Ken talks about how entertaining the idea of changing has been an interesting process. He talks about Metacake taking on a hybrid schedule is likely, and mentions that there is an enormous benefit to working from home that not many people talk about.

“There’s a part of this that allows families to kind of be closer together and that area’s not really discussed or talked about. But I think that when that unit breaks down a bunch, I think it causes a lot of problems in our society. If we have this ability now to foster that a bit more… I know it works better for me.”

[30:30] Ken continues: “There’s so much benefit that comes from that… mental health, family health… businesses can pioneer without sacrificing anything.”

[31:20] Jay mentions OKR, or Objectives and Key Results. It’s a system where you create company-wide objectives that is broken down into smaller objectives each quarter. Each objective has key results, typically a number.

Further, every department creates their own individual objectives and key results, and within those departments every person creates their own objectives. For remote working, this is an invaluable tool!

[36:12] Jay speaks more on OKR’s. It is actually more difficult than you’d think to come up with a good objective, because those that are achieving every objective they’ve set for themselves probably haven’t set their sights high enough.

[38:24] Ken talks about how setting objectives in this manner can be a cure for shiny object syndrome, or the idea that companies can get into a flurry of directions and make little actual progress.

[38:50] Jay: “A lot of companies succeed more because of what they said no to than what they say yes to.” And almost indigestion happens when there are a TON of opportunities or ideas that get backed up. When objectives are set, every opportunity comes along with very quick decision making, because it is easy to ask if any one deal will move the needle on any objectives.

[41:49] Brad asks Jay how long it took before Bold was able to build brand equity.

[42:13] Jay responds that it took several years and a lot of changes to find their lane and eventually build that equity. They settled on Bold Commerce after many rounds of experimentation.

Hitting the “jackpot” came as sort of a fluke, when they designed an upsell app for Shopify that allowed massive growth without Shopify breaking. In thinking like a merchant, they were able to give companies and customers a great experience. It gave them a great reputation right off the bat.

[50:15] Brad thanks Jay for his time and speaks about how he loves the focus on the customer or client. Even when designing apps to help businesses, there is always a focus on providing the customer with the best value for their money.

Measure What Matters: How Google, Bono, and the Gates Foundation Rock the World with OKRs

View Details

Summary:

ROI is more important now yet harder to measure than ever. Because of the uncertain economic climate, time between spending and making a sale has increased for most businesses. At the same time effort and marketing activities have had to completely change course to adapt. ROI is something every business leader (you and your clients) wants to know for good reason. But unfortunately the answer is not that simple, and we are tempted to sacrifice long term health for short term reward.

In today’s episode we break open the concept of brand value as a return on investment- how building brand equity has a real business case and is just as important (even more) as other activities that may have direct ROI attached to them. It’s important as an agency to have a deep understanding of this concept not only for your clients, but for YOURSELF. Agencies are so-called “brand building experts” yet often their own brand suffers and is perceived as a commodity. When it comes to building a business with a legacy that makes profit and LASTS, we have to find that perfect balance between number crunching and winning the hearts and minds of your customers.

Resources Mentioned:

Hubspot
Google Trends

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

The importance of ROI as a financial measurement will be more important for quick-growth, blitz-scaling companies, while companies that are looking to build for long-term growth should take brand equity into consideration just as much as ROI.
It’s important to Practice what you Preach- as an agency, show clients and customers that your brand is about a deeper meaning and message than just making money.
A simple way of measuring brand awareness is tracking how many Google searches come up for any specific brand or company. That is a real-time measure of brand recognition and audience engagement.

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

How do your clients define success? Is ROI a part of that equation?

[0:] Bob: The term ROI means Return on Investment, or the value that we provide to our clients. There is often a void between what we as agency owners value as success and what the client values as success- closing that gap is what we do.

[ ] Ken: “ROI is one of those things that you can’t really control as an agency owner- really no one person can control.”

[ ] Brad: Often clients see us as their financial advisor- step 1 of that process is asking “What can I expect my return to be.” Sometimes you get clients who have a different idea of success from you, so it’s more difficult to close that gap.

[ ] Bob: The agency dilemma- what’s the goal of the company ultimately, and what’s the size of the company. Smaller company means the goals are going to be different, so the expectations of the client is going to be different.

[ ] Brad: Startups are often quick-moving, fast-growth companies. They’re blitz scaling, and “putting the plane together while they launch it”- ultimately just looking for short term investments to get them where they need to be and create the “strong financial narrative of growth” that they need.

Strategies change based on that need of the company. Startups probably care more about ROI than other more established brands.
Identifying what THEY see as success is #1 with any client.

[ ] Bob asks: How much of an agency's job is it to teach and push a client toward a better understanding of ROI for their business?

[ ] Ken: “I think it’s required, even for your own well-being as an agency.”

You can’t always control what the product is, the price, who the audience is, etc. If you don’t educate, you’re on the hook for things that you can’t control- the client’s expectations, mostly.
“You have to lead that conversation.” Oftentimes you’re being asked to do things by the client that you have no control over, so you need to educate around that. “Here’s how you should be thinking about ROI from our perspective.”

[ ] Brad: Sometimes you get clients whose product really isn’t being marketed to the correct market. Some companies just don’t put the time or effort into establishing market fit.

“We see, as collectors of data, proof or evidence that the client's expectation isn’t right to begin with.”
As an agency, you have to be able to say that you can’t help them any further. You can only guide some clients so far.

[ ] Bob speaks on how often the expectation is that clients don’t really understand the process.

[ ] Brad adds that oftentimes the clients don’t understand that there are many perspectives and lenses through which to gauge growth- ROI isn’t the only marker for success. And the less educated a client is about these things, the more work there is at the front end for agencies.

[ ] Ken adds: Agencies have to get ROI for every activity that they do- defining the return is important. Sometimes it’s not money or sales.

Having a team member that understands a more holistic view of the business model is so vital- both internally as well as from clients. Until then you’re always going to have a mismatch.

[ ] Brad: Often there are specific structures within the setup of the business that are barriers to understanding and education. When part of the businesses activity takes place offline- they get bumped to a salesperson- it’s hard to measure the success of specific digital ads, etc. So it’s important to have a place (Hubspot, Salesforce) where you can measure those successes even once the process leaves a digital platform.

Then you have clients who come to the table very prepared and know the digital world inside and out and there isn’t a whole lot of education that you have to provide.
Then there are clients who expect you to be magic and pull ROI out of thin air.

[ ] Bob speaks on the “magician” role that some clients expect. Every client, product, demographic is wildly different. Sometimes it works, and sometimes it doesn’t

[ ] Ken adds: Many clients are looking for a silver bullet, a quick fix to get their name out there. But ultimately as agency owners, you’re doing that service because you know more about that than the person coming to you. This is our responsibility- do NOT feed them the silver bullet misconception.

Educate the reality: “There is no silver bullet, so here’s the deal: It’s finding the right experience on your team, doing the right things consistently over time, and being really smart about those so that you build your business and get to that goal you have. That’s the first thing we ask anyone that we want to work with- what is your goal?
Start with a goal. Is it specific, measurable, realistic? If it is, then how do we back out of that and develop a strategy.

[ ] Brad: speaks on the experience of marketing something that there is a lot of excitement and buzz around. “It was so easy to market that product, and it was so fun because there was so much excitement behind it.”

It is a whole different experience when the company is in a market that’s slow or the brand new with no competitors, hs no brand equity, doesn't have the money to do what they need to do- and sometimes they don’t even know what they need.

[ ] Ken responds- “So apparently it’s important for them to have a good product Well it turns out it starts with a great product, apparently. And that’s something that you can’t truly control… If you’re working with someone who says I want to get there, you ask okay how bad do you want it? Because the investment that’s required to get there may be more than they have or that they want to invest- money or time.”

[ ] Brad: The biggest reason that businesses go out of business is due to capital. In order for you to be the magician that they request, they have to be willing to reframe their mindset.

Steve Jobs quote: “I create products that people don’t even realize they need.”
Apple not only put out products that are incredible, but they educate people about how that product will improve their lives.

[ ] Bob asks about brand equity. Scenario, agency comes to the client with: “Well, we may not have hit all the sales goals, but look at all this brand equity that we’ve built.”

Part of our job as an agency is to measure, report on brand equity, and prove that our process is a success with data & analytics.
This might be important to a marketing manager that you’re working with directly, but maybe not the CFO who’s only looking at the numbers.

[ ] Brad speaks on brand awareness vs desire to purchase. You need both to truly succeed- both are a measure of success.

Brand equity doesn't happen overnight- either have a lot of money or time.
Brand equity comes with a strong consumer value.
Another Steve Jobs quote: “Don’t just sell us on the features of your products, but show us how your product is going to change our lives.”
If you don’t have those pain points, you’re never going to create an emotional connection to your brand.
Everything about your brand is brand equity- you have to take everything into context. “It’s not just marketing and driving leads, it’s so much more than that.”

[ ] Bob adds: “Can you get your potential customer to see themselves in your product?”

[ ] Brad speaks on the tribe mindset of becoming a brand fan. The emotional connection to the product is just as important as the product itself.

Consistency of brand awareness in every aspect of the business.

[ ] Ken: It seems like there is a huge focus on the direct response concept of viral brands and viral products. It’s almost discounting the brand awareness method of building a business. The balance is in between the two.

[ ] Brad: It’s an important question to ask, how much human touch does a brand actually have access to? That really impacts the way that you approach the strategy.

[ ] Ken: When you compare two business strategies- one company who wants to create a legacy that is around for years and year and years, another wants to capitalize on a craze that will only work for a year or two.

In one situation, there is very little focus that goes into brand equity and the point is to take advantage of the ROI available. And in the other, brand equity is really the focus of what you’re building early on.
“It’s easy to get caught up in the short term side of things… so you really need to define ROI for yourself, and find the balance. If you want to create a brand that will gain success longterm, you do have to measure both the ROI and brand equity.”

[ ] Bob: “Our job is to measure it and deliver those analytics back to them. How do you guys measure that?”

[ ] Brad shares his for a digital business:

Are we creating awareness?
Are we getting people excited about the idea of the product?
Are we driving through an appropriate funnel?

[ ] Brad expands: The next step is understanding which messages are driving users deeper into the funnel. UI issues, abandoned cart rates, fallout rates, etc.

[ ] Ken shares: On the brand awareness side you’re working on creating emotions in people. How you measure that could be things like engagement on ads, etc.

[ ] Brad: “You have to understand that your lens is different from your customer, as much empathy as you want to have for them…”

[ ] Bob speaks about a method of measuring brand equity/brand awareness- just keeping track of how many Google searches come up in a month, 2 months, 3 months. If there is an increase, that is evidence of brand awareness increasing.

[ ] Ken adds that Google Trends is another way to gain a view of brand awareness.

Keywords, phrases that are bringing people to your site can be used to create narratives to further increase that interest.

[ ] Ken highlight 1 Takeaway: Practice what you preach- agencies tend to not do this for themselves, tend to not push to build a brand with awareness and emotion.

How, as an agency, can you build a story that is beyond the services you provide?

[ ] Brad adds: We can help clients refine their product as well, based on this brand equity mindset. We see the front lines, so they need to be listening to our perspective.

“You have to decide with your own agency which clients are the right fit for you.”

View Details

Summary:

Today’s episode is Part 8 of our COVID-19 / Corona series, where we’re uncovering the good in the current situation. We’ve had some amazing guests over the weeks and have some amazing ones coming in the next episodes. Today, we sit down to do a 2 month check-in check-in, focusing on questions like: What are we seeing, feeling, and observing in our clients and in our own businesses? What are our takeaways so far? How has it changed people? How has it changed business and marketing? How long will it last? What does the NEW normal look like?

Owning an agency or service business can be a roller coaster of changes and pivots, and now more than ever the value that you can provide is at the forefront. For all businesses, and your clients - every dollar counts. But is that a bad thing? Is there more competition or less because “match” is more important now than ever.

We talk about moving your business away from commoditization and instead focusing on the value of your experience and expertise. How can you provide concrete evidence of that value to clients? And how can you come alongside them as a coach to lean into this period of growth?

Resources Mentioned:

Grab the "GO" T-shirt (if you dare!)

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Ultimately, none of us know for sure what the next couple of years will look like. Nothing will be the same, we will never go “back to normal”, we will move forward into a New Normal. Embrace it. It may actually be better.
Things have shaken out and that is to the benefit of businesses that are genuine experts. Don’t build your agency around services that are considered commodities (or could become commodities). Build your brand around you UNIQUE value.
In creating value for your brand, concrete proof is more valuable now than ever. Create solid case studies that showcase your services and different forms of ROI- clients will appreciate and trust your knowledge and skillset much more quickly.

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[2:00] Bob introduces the episode with a wrap-up of our Covid episodes so far- we’ve covered how to survive, thrive, diversify. He asks what Brad and Ken think the world will look like, business-wise, after this pandemic. What are we seeing, feeling, observing in our clients and in our own businesses? What are our takeaways? How has it changed people? What is the landscape going to look like and what do we need to consider.

[3:20] Ken speaks on the “reset” that is happening amongst his colleagues and within his own business. Having done business through the recession of 2008 and experiencing this as well, the cyclical nature of the economy is very apparent. Two months ago a reset was hard to imagine, with nothing but blue skies on the horizon.

Things were moving so quickly, in some ways it felt harder to do business. Very noisy, competitive, overly commoditized, egos were big on both sides that was creating a type of inflation in itself.

[5:16] Ken: “As painful as a reset is, I think that pullback brings us back to the fundamentals of what is really important, brings us back to human beings, humbles us all- including the marketplace in a way that is advantageous to people that are genuine and businesses who are in it for the right reasons… if you have those qualities it’s easier to connect with people who really need what you have to offer.”

[6:03] Brad asks Ken for a picture of what the future looks like as far as engaging in new business/ onboarding.

[6:35] Ken: “Agencies tend to fall into the category of all being the same… that makes it easier to be identified by potential clients… But really that’s not what makes you unique, what makes you unique is what will make them choose you.”

[7:38] Ken continues: “I believe that there’s gonna be more need to find the right match that gets the right results on the client side AND the agency side, because there’s less room for messing around… even time. Nobody likes spending money and it not work, but now, time is important.”

The shift is connecting on a level that actually matches the intent of the client as opposed to a “cattle call” for whoever is the cheapest and fastest.

[9:47] Bob recalls the early 2000’s when digital marketing was new, there is a similar reset. Back then, services were becoming commoditized so that everyone could do them.

“The new world will be more sensitive to value versus cost.”

[11:33] Bob continues: “People are like, I need an expert now. I need to build and create something that’s going to stand the test of time, that’s going to generate revenue smarter for me, maybe faster. Not with tactics, but with real expertise.”

This is an opportunity for agencies to step up and not have to play in the commodity world as much.

[12:26] Brad recalls our last podcast guest Daniel Cobb and the analogy he made between being a tool versus the whole toolbox. Many agencies focus on being just a hammer, but he views his agency as the entire toolbox.

[13:45] Brad asks for further thoughts from the guys “If you rethink your agency model, do you now hire different people, do you rethink your team?”

[14:10] Ken responds that those who are becoming commodities shouldn’t necessarily fight that.

Gives the example of real estate and the concept of websites like Zillow becoming popular. Because there is more technology out there, people can buy and sell more efficiently without an intermediary. Some are resistant to this, but ultimately that is the way the market is going.

[17:02] Ken continues: “What is your value that you can add regardless of if it’s easy or if it’s hard?”

[17:42] Brad speaks about his agency and the way that they do business. They definitely sell commodities but ultimately strategy is the biggest value that they offer. Having a seat the strategy table is vital, otherwise they are taken out by other companies that have commoditized differently/better.

[19:02] Brad adds that “If there is an opportunity, I always like to show a monetary return on investment, because if you don’t do that, that's where you become a commoditized business that is being told what to do, versus truly adding value.”

That is a question that you should be asking your clients when you talk to them- what are your expectations on your ROI?
Brad stresses that especially in the coming months, ROI will become increasingly important. As we head towards the very real possibility of a recession, ROI will be at the top of mind with a lot of potential clients

[22:07] Bob adds “Solid case studies and examples are going to be gold.” You’ll have clients asking for proof of that and see it in a document. “It's too easy to claim ownership when campaigns are successful, and it’s too easy to blame other things when it’s not successful.”

Client want to know: “Are you professional? Are you going to get a return on my money? Let me see where you’ve done it before with other clients… not who’s cheapest, or who gets the most clicks and impressions…”

[23:45] Brad: “Being a creative agency is great but creativity now is becoming a commodity.”

The bar is really high, but just because you launch it doesn’t mean it will generate money.

[25:18] Bob: “I think honesty and authenticity are going to be held to a much higher value.”

Oftentimes you have clients who state exactly what they want, and although you agree and go for that, on the inside you really don’t think it will pan out just the way they want.
Being willing to be honest with clients about their expectations and leading them with your expertise will allow them to feel empowered and encouraged by your experience. And it allows you to be a part of the conversation. “What is the best ROI for you” instead of “How can we make the best money for you.”

[27:41] Ken: “None of us can guarantee results… you don’t own the product, the company, you can’t tell the future… Your job as an agency is to lead in the expertise that you have and challenge the beliefs appropriately so that you get your clients in the right place…. Like a coach. A coach can’t win the game for you, he can’t play for you. He can only stand alongside you with the expertise that he has, help get you ready, help train you… to help you win. But YOU still have to win.”

[30:00] Ken continues: “How do you educate based on changing market conditions to be investing in the right things that don't produce immediate ROI but do produce a long term ROI, AND find the short term wins?”

Balancing short term wins through low-hanging fruit with long term wins of extended ROI.

[31:24] Brad expresses curiosity for the next 6 months- will clients be more nitpicky about pricing? Will pricing models change, will we have to go back to the drawing boards?

[32:00] Ken speaks on pricing strategy and how moving away from being the “cheapest” model to a value-based model. Hanging your hat on that model for business is not a strategy to long-term growth and survival.

[34:45] Bob adds that this ties back into the concept of having a “why” that is deeper and more valuable than just earning money.

If you ARE in the commodity world, you need to pivot fast.

[37:50] Bob speaks about how to survive through this: “Being an expert, showing we’ve done it before, caring about ROI above everything… and it’s really important to lead with value and why we’re doing it, and having strong philosophies.”

[40:00] Ken talks about the other side of making those pivots and truly surviving through this: “On the other side of that now you’ve got a really distilled idea of who you are and why you’re so valuable… through that, it’s easier to sell.”

Clients asking about legitimacy and actually DOING what you promise is more important now than ever. And in that sense, cost is a secondary thought for many. Because they want something that WORKS.

[40:55] Ken quotes Tony Robbins: “To succeed in business, it’s pretty simple. You just need to provide more value than anyone else.” This is relevant to today more than ever, and doesn’t necessarily mean adding more time or cost, but instead asking yourself “How can I create the most valuable offering in the most efficient way.”

[42:16] Bob predicts that laying people off may bring more efficient business practices internally. Letting go of 4 or 5 employees may be more efficient than hiring an outside partner to help with those services.

“How can we achieve just as much, if not more, with outside expertise?”

[43:40] Brad adds: “This will be an opportunity for clients to shop around… as we’re rethinking our businesses, customers are rethinking what they need… you may have a lot more customers who are looking for long term partners.”

[45:05] Ken speaks on the power of not only weathering the storm, but looking for the opportunities to thrive through it. “It won’t go back to the way it was, it’s going to go forward to something new… noone knows what that is… everyone’s at the starting line again. In some ways, it has re-leveled the playing field, creating advantages that people didn’t have before.”

[46:29] Brad: “Customers are going to look for companies who can support them… not those who are outsourcing pieces of the pie, but a well-oiled machine that can take them on.”

He is making efforts to keep his business as lean as possible on the operations side, as there is so much unknown. “I’m looking to weather the storm.”

[48:15] Bob adds that ultimately, none of us know for sure. Nothing will be the same, things have shaken out the way they need to and ultimately there are a lot of opportunities for those businesses that are thinking about bringing value and expertise. This is a great time to be learning, a great time to start with a high level of value and knowledge instead of just trying to be the cheapest commodity and grab business where you can.

View Details

Summary:

Ever wish you could pick the brain of an industry leader who has been around a lot longer than you, has had a lot more success than you, has been down your road before, and is willing to share it all with you? Yeah, we did too. So we reached out to Daniel Brian Cobb, the founder of The Daniel Brian Agency. Dan’s agency has won more than 21 Emmy’s, advises clients like Papa John’s and Disney, is a respected author, and has been leading and growing his business and clients for over 30 years.

Daniel has seen it all from the 2008 financial crisis to the current 2020 COVID-19 recession. Daniel is one of the voices that large brands go to for advice in times of crisis. He’s an amazing agency leader and God-given innovator.

Daniel shares it all today. We discuss how he’s leading his clients and agency through this crisis, and the next wave of change that is coming.

And just like the rest of us, Daniel’s business isn’t immune to the current crisis. In the first 24hrs of the Coronavirus shut down his agency lost $1M in business. We talk about how he dealt with disappointments like this and how he’s actually gained more business through this time. There is always HOPE and Dan walks us through finding it.

This is an episode you want to listen to with your notepad ready (or just use our notes below:).

Resources Mentioned:

Dan’s book Surfing the Black Wave
Dan’s Quicken Loans Presentation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KXuk0f_SvqQ

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

We are in the third wave: The Participation Age. This is about collaboration and smaller units of power. Getting more access and creating a greater weight than any one big organization could ever create.
Owning your media is more important now than ever! As we shift into a new way of doing business, owning your platforms and connections with your customers is vitally important.
Innovate. Use the 80/20 innovation system. Always put 20% of resources towards future innovation. Be careful about doing any more or less. Your business must be healthy AND you must innovate to survive.

For more tips, discussion, and behind the scenes:

Follow us on Instagram @AgencyPodcast
Join our closed Facebook community for agency leaders

About our Guest:

Dan Cobb: Founder of the Daniel Brian Agency (DBA), author of Surfing the Black Wave and 30+ year industry veteran. DBA specializes in innovative and measurable advertising campaigns to engage families via retail, healthcare, digital TV, family entertainment, and sporting goods. Dan has worked with brands like Papa Johns, Henry Ford Health Systems, and Chick-fil-A to provide creative connections with local communities. Connect with Dan:

Website and Blog: https://danielbrian.com/digital-marketing-report/
On LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/danielbrian
Daniel’s Book Surfing the Black Wave https://amzn.to/2KHUD6l

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[1:24] Brad introduces our guest Dan Cobb.

28 year veteran in this industry.
Wrote Surfing the Black Wave

[3:44] Dan tells us about his clients and the type of work he does. “We started with two types of clients. We started in healthcare and pizza. First two clients, Henry Ford health system, and Domino’s pizza.”

“Our experience is really in taking chain based organizations, local organizations that are widespread and building that local connection in the local community for those organizations.”
Gives example of Chick-Fil-A. When they work with a chain like this, the focus is more on local communities and local engagement. Daddy-daughter date nights, military appreciation nights, etc.

[4:56] Dan continues: “In doing that over the years, what we’ve learned is that connection happens in the community, connections happens through values… That’s great to have a pizza on sale, a $5 hot and ready, but you can beat that with a $7 pizza that cares.”

They ran a campaign for Hungry Howies that donated proceeds to breast cancer research. They experienced a 23% increase of sales that month, and they gained a quarter of a million Facebook fans and followers.
“We saw how that local connectivity is about connecting to the values that people care about there and then bringing that together for maybe a promotion, maybe not… it’s more important that you have that values connection.

[5:53] Brad reflects on first meeting Dan years ago. He recalls that Dan had a very clear vision that had nothing to do with advertising. Brad asks Dan what that “Why” core value system looks like these days.

[7:22] Dan responds: “Many of us started with writing or artistic or musical skills, and it kind of drove us into this industry, which gave us a way to compensate those skills… for me it went back to when I was a kid. I was sitting on the couch watching tv… mom walks into the room and says turn that off, that’s bad for you. Go out and do something good for you. And it was that moment… it was this though, Why does it have to be bad for me? Why does this content, this entertainment, this advertising have to be bad for me? Maybe I can make that change.”

[8:10] He recalls Nike’s “Just Do It” campaign impacting him strongly. As a runner, he found himself truly inspired by the commercials that he’d seen. “It inspired me to be a better runner, to be a better person, overcome the pain in my life, and just take on the challenges… why can’t advertising always do that type of thing?”

[8:35] Dan: “So we started building a model around that… we call it Better Brands for a Better Human Condition. So we put everything we do through that filter: Is what we’re doing building a better brand for a better human condition?”

“As a team, we started pull all-nighters, pretty much the slave shifts. We’ve all done it in this business… one of my staff members said ‘How is this a better brand for a better human condition?’”
Helping your clients be the best they can be oftentimes comes at the expense of your internal team. Dan talks about how traditionally, advertising is terrible on employees. One client drops off and cuts have to be made, so there is a sense of very real fear every day. So he has worked hard to make his agency a great place to work.

[10:01] Ken speaks about how advertising has had a “churn and burn” kind of experience in the past. Not having come from advertising, he’s had a different experience of the work.

[11:37] Ken continues: “We focused on how do we create a business that is different and the purpose is really not the product we put out. It’s the message that we stand for… How do we do things like create a staff environment that’s not continually expanding and contracting- literal financial stability that is not necessarily dependent on any one particular client..”

[12:37] Dan interjects- “We hear about flattening the curve right now- we’ve been flattening the curve our entire careers!”

Reflects on the common experience of many ad agencies- working long hours sacrificing family and personal time, busting your butt to get things out the door only to find that the client isn’t happy and you both lose in that situation.

[12:56] Dan: “So we now have been thinking through how do we flatten that curve so that through the course of the year, it’s fairly level… you have a few peaks, but it’s not all spikes and then drop offs. Managing that is really about managing a client… getting them on course and managing their calendar, building out longterm plans… looking for the kinds of clients who marry, who don’t date around.”

Everyone feels the pain of clients who are not interested in settling down into a longterm plan with you- you, the client, and your team especially.

[13:46] Brad speaks about a common theme here on Agency Exposed: “Are our businesses just a commodity or do we have a value that is unique enough that we’re not on that list of customers that are going to go and burn out agencies… our business has struggled because some of our offerings are commodities and others are not.”

The fast pace of technology has increased the pace of the agency industry and it’s easy to fall out of step with the changes if you’re not intentional about it and learn to pivot quickly.

[15:04] Bob segues into Dan’s book and the principles that he talks about. “Can you talk a little bit about that and maybe contextualize it for what’s going on right now. This whole idea that everything becomes commoditized… if it’s a new technology, new knowledge base, people start to learn it, more people start to learn it and it becomes a commodity… so what digital marketing was 15 years ago you can now pay $5 for someone to do it.”

Lately there is a shift that has happened. Where the focus was on quick results expertise, very much focused on bottom dollar ROI, now we read requests for high level Facebook ad specialists, conversion rate optimization specialists.

[16:33] Bob: “It almost feels like the tide is going back out again… what are you seeing in the context of what you write about in that kind of tsunami, black wave metaphor.”

[16:47] Dan reflects on his childhood proclivity for invention. “My grandfather was an inventor and he taught me a lot about how inventors think.”

Modern acceptance is that Amazon IS ecommerce, that it was a battle and Amazon won. Same with social media- there was a war and Facebook won. But an inventor always has hope for something new, for change. They will take ideas, put them together and create social media commerce. There WILL be another shift.

[17:54] Dan speaks about the Third Wave Model based on a tsunami metaphor.

A tsunami hit Hawaii and many people went out to the shore to marvel at the fish flopping out of water after the first wave hit. Little did they know, that marvel that they were distracted by was a sign of the next wave to come. Many lives were lost to that tsunami, people who were just spectators watching what had taken place.

[18:31] Dan says “I believe we’re in the same place. We’re all spectators watching social media saying ‘Well, that’s over, Facebook won, Zuckerberg had the final say’ but there is another shift coming because there’s a mindset shift that took place over the first two waves. The mindset shift came in and said ‘It’s no longer the big three, the big five, whatever the number is in any particular industry to control everything.’”

The first wave was thousands of years of agricultural society… the industrial revolution was the first great wave of society’s change in thought. Anyone can get a product.
The next wave is information. It allowed everyone to have access to content, and people like Steve Jobs came and said let’s make this kind of computer technology available to the people and not just the big companies.
The third wave is the mindset shift. This is where people are given all the power, we call it the participation age. Everyone can participate (this podcast, for example) and everyone can influence.

[20:00] Dan talks about how it is no longer the focus to make one company the BIGGEST around, that model is outdated and useless in this day and age.

[20:36] “Eventually that model is going to break, well all of them are breaking… It’s better when Daniel Brian meets three other guys who have specific skills that I don’t have, and we intertwine our relationships and build out towards something bigger to serve a bigger population. The participation age is about collaboration and smaller units of power. Getting more access and creating a greater weight than any one big organization could ever create.”

[21:04] Brad asks what Dan’s suggestions would be for business owners to position themselves for this next wave.

[21:18] Dan responds:

1: Don’t be afraid to talk to your competitors. They have skillsets that help your ability to reach bigger audiences.
2: “Always take the sale, then price yourself out it rather than saying no.” Say yes, then fall back on your connections within your network to help you execute things you could never do by yourself.

[22:45] Ken agrees with Dan and recalls that that is the reason that Agency Exposed exists. In advertising things tend to be secretive and closed-off from collaboration, everything is a competition and so we tend to be closed off in disclosing what we’re ACTUALLY really good at versus what we say we are really good at.

[24:15] Ken adds: “we often say collaboration over isolation… there’s a balance between saying you can do everything and being specialized.”

[24:47] Dan: “It’s about vertical integration… your best new business is your current business.” When a client talks about how they want to explore a new solution, tell them you can figure it out for them.

He gives an example of working with Henry Ford healthcare. When they started they had a tiny sliver of a budget with the client, and they began to see things they could do and took on those challenges. They grew from a very niche organization to a broad advisor- “solving the operational problems of the organization with marketing solutions”.

[28:04] Bob asks: “What are some lessons you’ve used over 30 years that you could offer to some agency owners right now?”

[29:07] Dan responds: “Own the media, it is our future, it is the Black Wave.”

He talks about how in the early days of Facebook, if you got 9 million followers, that was a lot and felt very much like your platform like your community. But then Facebook changed that title, and now it’s just likes that you’re getting. So that’s no longer your community, that’s Facebook’s community. And THEN Facebook came in and said hey we can charge you to talk to these followers…
“.. So the future is no longer about going to other people’s media and trying to find your way. It’s about creating your own platform, owning that platform, and getting more and more visibility.”

[32:24] Bob asks for practical advice for agency owners.

[32:37] Dan: “Marketing automation… building around your CRM platform.”

[33:39] Brad asks: “What are some ways during Covid-19 that you’ve had to help your customers pivot?”

[34:06] Dan says “Don’t look at it as a negative.” He gives the example of Papa John’s sales being up to Superbowl numbers. “And so rather than just start to gouge the customer we tried to say how do we endear our customer and connect to them during this time.”

Papa John’s gave away pizza in communities where school lunches were needed. Now in those areas they are far outpacing the market because the communities know what they stand for during this time.
Speaking on healthcare opportunities: “We’ve now flattened the curve for the most part, but there’s a second curve coming. The second curve coming is the mental health crisis… the next crisis is the fact that people have lost their jobs… they’ve been rejected from transplant procedures… the mental health crisis is bound to happen.”

[36:14] Dan continues: “So now’s the time for us to engage our communities with messages of hope. The future. Finding ways for our health systems to engage people and say, we have a model for getting virtual care because people are afraid to go to the hospital so they’re not getting their care.”

Market these new products and give insurance programs that make no copay or half copay for doing the virtual programs that are cheaper. “Build encouragement like Nike did back in the day saying Hey you have hope, you have a future, it’s going to be okay.”

[37:05] Brad asks how he is personally staying “up” in all the chaos and working from home.

[37:25] Dan: “I’ve been following the stats and trying to be very very informative with them of where I think things are at, telling them about their future. A lot about where we’re going to be… how we’re using this to leverage on Covid marketing. We’re doing a lot of Covid campaigns so we’ve actually seen an increase in our business during this.”

He focuses on being human with them, talking about things like impact on families and ability to be with families. Encourages them to be happy about this time and enjoy it.

[38:35] Ken asks for elaboration on 2 points. Do you see this changing the way you guys do business? How so? You mentioned that some business has increased- how has that happened and how have you positioned yourself to not be an opportunist in that place, but actually increase your ability to sell well?

[39:08] Dan: “I’d be cautious to say that my business has increased… The first moment of the crisis… it took us less than 24 hours to lose a million dollars in contracts.”

But they did reach out to clients and say ‘There are things you CAN do to survive and thrive through this, let’s tell people that you’re creating solutions through this.’
Many were not previously in ecommerce but were brought into that world.

[41:15] Ken speaks on the shock of losing that much money in 24 hours. “How’d you lead your company through that? How did you take action without freaking out inside?”

[41:30] Dan: “Well first I didn’t take action without freaking. I freaked out… for me it’s a faith thing… once I got past that point, I got to my center.”

He began looking at government programs, calling his team to see what was needed and what was missing.
Did have some layoffs and gave them a long furlough.
He applied to gov’t programs and received assistance that brought real encouragement.

[43:08] Ken: “As far as opportunities now, as our entire population shifts, how does this shift your business? You talked about the next wave being owned channels… how are you adjusting?”

[43:15] Dan: Hospitals without an address are what will win. Telehealth solutions are the next frontier. “Whoever owns that particular market will dominate the market because it’ll be your first call…”

[44:38] Ken asks about the same but for Dan’s agency specifically.

[44:41] Dan: “Our own media platform is… we’re starting to do a lot more of things like this, content that’s going out to our clients.”

Creating their own studies that allow them to inform their clients of where they rank against competitors in the marketplace.

[45:44] Bob asks for advice for young solo-preneurs. As the trend of a solo model is becoming more and more popular and talent and resources are being outsourced more and more, what kind of advice can he give to people in the early stages of business?

[46:17] Dan: “A lot of the things that I accidentally did when I started DBA.”

Keep a small home office to keep costs down- stay lean.
Don’t hire people who talk a big talk for the long haul. “Find your experience partners but keep them at arms length, let them have their own business… bring them in when you need it and pay them a premium for short windows of work. Don’t hire full-time people for part-time problems.”

[47:20] Bob asks how to scale this.

[47:22] Dan: “I’ll tell you when I get there!” Working in this way has allowed him between 5 and 10M in revenue regularly, but getting beyond that is the challenge.

[48:45] Brad asks: “How much approximately of your revenue do you spend on specifically reinventing your company, to move your company to the next wave?”

[49:00] Dan: “Great question. Critical question. I nearly killed my company three times by missing the point of this question.”

“Innovation is very attractive...so we end up getting distracted sometimes… it can become your core. And there’s no financial model for return on it. So if you put all your effort into innovation, you’re overinvesting.”
There is an illustration in his book about this, an 80/20 rule. “New business is not a slice in your pie. It’s a completely separate pie...it has to stay away from your core, it has to be a completely separate entity, a separate model, separate team, separate everything, but you want to make sure you’re central and focused on 80% of your business at all times.”

[51:20] Bob asks Dan for info on his book and website.

Surfing the Black Wave: Brand Leadership in a Digital Age

View Details

Summary:

More than ever, uncertainty from economic conditions caused by Coronavirus/COVID-19 has many businesses frozen in fear. Some for good reason, and others irrationally. Today we are breaking down those obstacles to taking action and sharing how we’re trying to “un-freezing” current and potential. We’re also talking about how we are marketing our own services in this time. Although there is enormous uncertainty- there is also enormous opportunity for Agency leaders to lean into their expertise, reestablish their passion, provide a unique perspective of experience for their customers, and train their eyes on the future. Let’s dive in!

Resources Mentioned:

Simon Sinek’s Ted Talk: Start with Why
Brad’s Agency Webinar
AE Owners Facebook Group

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

While it is incredibly difficult for businesses to think past the immediate fears that they have regarding the pandemic, agencies are uniquely suited to position themselves as a source of education and guidance. Experience with hundreds/thousands of clients, hundreds/thousands of different projects with different variables and pain points… there is a deep well of knowledge in that work and you should be educating your clients from that knowledge across all of your channels.
Don’t focus on WHAT you deliver. Taking the time to reset your “why” regarding your business can help reset your creative spark and allow space for new ideas to come to the surface. Focusing on your “why” means that the “what” of your business can be more resilient and allows you to pivot more successfully.
Rather than “selling” to your potential customers, consider it as just “helping them make the right decision”. And do that with great passion.

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[4:00] We reflect on the reality of our new way of life. One positive side effect is that people are becoming more gracious, forgiving, and sensitive to others’ experience. We see tv stars and news casters in their home with their children, we see the behind the scenes of things that are usually very produced. This is going to impact the way that all productions are executed in the future, even after Covid-19 is over.

[4:45] Bob speaks about this week’s guest: “Her words were ‘This is going to change how we do business going forward in that they’ve always allowed someone to work from home a couple of days a week, but she said they are seeing such high productivity out of their team during this time there’s very little distraction, for the most part.”

[6:25] Ken adds that some businesses probably are realizing that their big expensive office building may not be a necessity, which is great. But also there are people whose personality type is not’ conducive to self-isolation. And there is suffering in that for some people.

“I’m considering a hybrid model where we can keep the pros of both… I’m hoping to blend this back into what our normal is.”

[7:15] Bob: “Well that’s a perfect segue really… we’re talking about productivity when it comes to sales… how to thrive in this time, how to reinvent, re-imagine yourself. How are you guys doing with existing clients?”

[8:07] Brad speaks on the struggle of filling up your sales pipeline during this time. “We probably won’t see the effect of that for 3, 4, 5 months. Typically in our sales cycle, onboarding a new client typically two, three, four, five months. And leads that we did have put things on hold. They may start back up again, but there’s a lot of uncertainty right now.”

“Most of our energy has been trying to keep the boat afloat for not just our core business, but helping our clients over hurdles that they’ve had to get over. A lot of them are rethinking the way they do business right now.”
It’s a common experience right now to struggle to develop new leads.

[11:00] Brad: “All this time has created a lot of thought patterns- people think about their businesses deeper, they think about their values. They reinvent themselves at this point… so they might have a lot of great ideas.”

As we get more news about when things will open again, there is a ramping up of ideas and readiness to dive into the next phase.

[12:31] Ken: “The idea of serving current clients and making that successful then finding new business that you company needs to thrive- you need to run on both. That’s the challenge,” and it applies to every day business life, not just this situation that we’re currently living.

Marketing your own company is something that Ken has focused on aggressively for the last few years. And it is bearing fruit now!

[14:37] Ken: “Some of our clients are struggling because of certain fears and certain threats to how they do business right now. But I don’t think it’s going to last for too long.”

Helping clients make the right decisions for their business inside of the uncertainty is something that can really be lead from the sales end. “It’s almost like selling them hard on what they need to do, with or without us, but saying ‘We really think you need to do this for this reason… Despite the environment, here’s why it’s important for you to continue with this project or investment.”

[15:45] Ken continues: “So helping people make the right decisions has been our sales strategy now more than ever, but it’s become really clear for us… speaking those words, helping people make the right decision, we’re starting to see that freeze mode loosen up a bit.”

[18:45] Bob adds: “I’ve noticed with some companies that March started off with a strong dive- specifically ecommerce businesses, and now that’s actually going up because I think… people are stuck inside and their only way to connect, research, buy, to have any contact with their outside world through the internet and ecommerce.”

[20:25] Brad chimes in: “There’ll be some new companies in the next three or four months hopefully that will convert the way they do business. And they’ll be looking for companies like us to work with… so that’s kind of where I’m looking.”

Reflecting on the explosion of new ideas and thought after the 2008 recession started to swing up again.
“I find myself looking forward, to not letting the grief and loss breed anxiety, I’m trying to keep my head afloat and look to the future and say ‘Okay all of this time right now that is being disrupted… hopefully in the next 6 or 8 months all of that will be returned to you with even more.”
“My business exists and I participate in this business because I love helping companies build great things and provide great products to customers that are really needed.”

[22:08] Ken: “Internet usage as a whole is up 35% right now... and there is a new focus on education in a new way.” First of all, because kids are being educated at home but also because there is a pressing need for some to make sure that their role is invaluable- some are getting education because they’re switching industries after getting laid off. So it would make sense that some industries are thriving now- education is incredibly valuable right now.

Agencies are well-positioned for that shift. “As an agency, you’ve got experience, more than anyone could teach in university- probably across hundreds of brands across so many industries. So you are uniquely positioned to teach people.”
A lot of companies are probably experiencing the same struggle with how to split marketing funds. Five weeks ago the growth hacking movement was in full swing, but things have shifted dramatically. So it can be a challenge to figure out how to maneuver through this.
Agencies are uniquely suited to this shift due to the education they can provide.

[24:48] Bob speaks on the question of purpose and how this is a valuable time to start re-assessing your answers to those questions.

It’s easy when things are normal and you’re chugging along in day to day life, to lose sight of why you began your business in the first place. And this eventually can lead to a lack of inspiration, a lack of creativity.
“These times push us to asking existential questions like ‘Why am I here? What’s important to me?’”
“This is a great time to really go back and just ask teh hard questions with yourself, with your partners, with your team, whatever it may be. Why did we start this company to begin with? What was our passion at the time? Can we retrace our steps to remember why we started in the first place? And then let that inspire new direction, let that refill your tank with passion. Let that create new ideas… it sounds simplistic, but I think it’s so important during this time.”

[29:45] Ken speaks on the importance of noting the difference between your “what” and your “why”.

Mentions: Simon Sinek’s “Start with Why” talk and Storybrand.
Centering your business around the “what” is dangerously common- If you’re marketing your business as a Facebook Marketing Agency... what happens if Facebook goes away? Your entire business is gone. If you take the time to define the Why of your business instead of what it is that you do- there is enormous potential in that.
“So I look at our business as ‘We sell experience and knowledge. That produces results through systems and formulas… and one way we do business is working with you. Another way we do business is through you purchasing that knowledge some other way with us leading you to do it.”

[34:00] Brad speaks on working with legacy companies that have been around for a hundred years or more. They survive not by doing the same business for a hundred years, but by keeping their ‘Why’ at the top of mind. When their why is strong, the what can shift and change over time, and that means longevity and success.

[36:25] Brad talks about how the companies that do the best have a strong why- “A company doing their job just because it’s work will never be able to compete with a company or business owner or employees that understand WHY.”

[41:00] Bob: “One of the things I’ve said for years… it doesn’t apply to every agency owner… you need to start seeing yourself as a media company because what you do is you create and produce, you enhance and market media… it’s all pixels, it’s content, it’s helping clients tell their story.”

If you’ve been having really great ideas to get your clients in front of people, now is a great time to do this for yourself!
A lot of brands give the keys to your customers… They didn’t necessarily need to reinvent themselves, but they reinvented the way they communicated. And thus, they did reinvent themselves by allowing their customers to collaborate, to use digital tools to design… everybody’s at home so now is a good time to figure out how to give people the keys.”

[44:35] Brad speaks on the desire to create contentment in change for himself. Reaching a point where you’re comfortable enough with change that you can pivot quickly. Learning to be more flexible and allow the customers to own more of the decisions.

It feels like we’re relinquishing control, but really control was an illusion to begin with. It was always the market that determined how you did your business. But this is a time to really settle into that perceived loss of control.

[46:30] Ken talks about how before this happened, many would have thought that working from home was an impossibility, but within just three or four weeks that has been proven untrue. We can adapt and adjust, so now it’s a matter of “challenging norms that we would usually take for granted.”

Taking that mindset of innovation into your business will only help!
“We’ve gotten so into… return on ad spend, investment conversation to where we are unwilling to even let a dollar go if it doesn’t return another dollar. Which is insane because how do you ever explore new channels and invest in them?”

[49:55] Bob: “If you are relying on one channel that you don’t own or that you don’t have control over, then you are just waiting for disaster… A good exercise for anyone during this time is what are the sources of traffic and revenue… Could I survive without it? And if I couldn’t… start to diversify and be like… okay we’ve got Facebook nailed. Now let’s figure out how to do the same thing on Google.”

[52:15] Ken talks about the technology/delivery model of Fast Food giant Chick-fil-A and their online delivery system and app technology for online ordering.

“That must have been tons of money invested into that… they must have thought ‘Why would anyone stop coming in to pick stuff up?’ But I’m sure right now that that entire system that they invested into 2 years ago is the thing that is pulling them through this time…”

[55:00] Brad tells us about his upcoming webinar: “We’re doing a 60-minute webinar about 3 topics: how to protect your financial viability, how to use this time to strengthen your brand, and we’re going to look at case studies of how companies have reinvented themselves in the past through different challenges in society.”

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Summary:

For most people, especially achievers, the idea of being forcefully shut down and locked home because of Coronavirus sounds like a nightmare. But what if it was actually a gift? An opportunity? How long has it been since you’ve had time in your calendar? How long has it been since you’ve seen the end of your todo list? We all like the idea of rest, but we’re oversubscribed in every way. Many of us were on a treadmill and had no way of getting off. Today, we’re discussing the POWER of PAUSE a.k.a. Rest with world-renowned author, speaker, and advisor to leaders of organizations across the globe, Curtis Zachery. CZ spends his life helping people find rhythms of rest that produce more joyful and effective lives. You may see that as boring, lazy and self-indulgent. Maybe you see it as a luxury of the elite. This couldn’t be farther from the truth. You can only give from a place of being filled. Rest is actually an activity, and it’s one that when used correctly produces real success and is even a true revenue driver.

The world is experiencing a pause in it’s day-to-day activities right now- on a scale that none of us have seen before. There is disruption at every turn, distraction from tasks and a deep desire to not squander this time that we have right now. So often we walk through life thinking “If only I had more time to rest, more time to spend with my family, more time to complete this personal project, more time to recharge…” Many of us have more time than we know what to do with these days! So how do we make the most of it? Today’s episode will be a deep dive into the power of proper rest and highlight the importance of taking advantage of this opportunity to reset our priorities.

Resources Mentioned:

https://www.curtiszackery.com/
Soul Rest: Reclaim your Life, Return to Sabbath by Curtis Zackery

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Rest is not the same thing as leisure! “We need to come to a place where we understand that our value is more than what we produce.”
3 powerful words: Intentional, Substantial, Sustainable. Create a pattern of rest for yourself that is intentional, substantial (has an impact!) and sustainable (you can keep up with it!)
Your sense of self-worth needs to come from somewhere other than what you can produce- and this is a time when we can truly evaluate this in our own lives.

About our Guest:

Today’s guest is world-renowned author, speaker, advisor, and pastor Curtis Zackery. We call him CZ for short, and we are honored to have him speak with us today. CZ has devoted his life to helping leaders of organizations create rhythms of rest that produce a more fulfilling and effective life. CZ’s latest book is “Soul Rest: Reclaim your Life, Return to Sabbath”
- https://www.curtiszackery.com/

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:23] Bob introduces this week’s guest Curtis Zackery, author of The Power of Rest, and asks The Guys how their week has been and how they’ve been holding up through the self-isolation period.

[1:02] Brad says he is focusing on the day by day. “I try to focus on today and let tomorrow have it’s own way.”

[1:30] Ken adds that this episode is being recorded via Zoom call.

Reflects on working from home and how the concept of rest has changed for him. “You’re going to look back on this time and remember it- for me, there are pains inside of that, but ultimately we’ll look back on this and it will be good. It’s at the top of my mind to be intentional about it.”
The “forced pause” part of this has been scary but there is so much power within the idea as well.
Speaks on the excitement of being taken out of a routine that you previously felt was impossible to get out of. Energy spent efficiently maintaining the routine is now being used elsewhere, and that’s an exciting thing.
“It gives me a chance to reassess and adjust things.”

[7:03] Bob asks Curtis for his perspective. Curtis speaks on the differing perspectives that people have of this time. Realities are different for everyone, and although it’s obvious, it’s important to recognize and acknowledge that fact.

“For some people, there’s an inherent sense of relief… for others there’s a complete and total agitation.”
Reflects on the idea that it’s possible to work from rest- some people think it’s a joke, others wish it was possible.

[10:00] Curtis adds that even prior to all of this, there was incredible burnout in every part of business. Everyone is usually hoping for some time away, time to relax. But now that it’s being forced upon us, it changes the way that we respond.

[11:08] Brad asks Curtis, why do you think it is that I cannot reach this point of rest without feeling guilt? What are some practical tips for sorting through all of the emotions?

[12:15] CZ responds:

First, we have an inherent belief that our only value comes from the things we produce.
When it comes to individual guilt or angst against a desire to rest- “We need to come to a place where we understand that our value is more than we produce.”

[13:30] People are realizing that this previous understanding of productivity or identity is a challenge against the way we feel about ourselves during this time.

[14:45] CZ continues: “We’ve equated rest and laziness, and that is just not true…. Rest and leisure are not the same thing either!”

[17:00] “With intentionality inside of our rest, we are going to become more productive.”

CZ has spoken with many business leaders who have seen enormous growthin their productivity. “More work done in less hours with more time spent with family than any time in my career.”

[18:10] Ken adds: Principles that produce really great results are counter cultural/ counter intuitive.

Putting your own business health before your clients- if you’re not healthy how could you possibly expect to help someone else become healthy?

[21:15] Brad: “Because I’m not going a mile a minute, I feel way more present- my mind is present more because I don’t have a running to do list of places to go and things to get done in between working.”

“My daily survival tasks have shrunk to about 50%”
“I’m going to be disappointed when this all ends and I dive right back into my routine… but maybe that’s not what is best.”

[22:40] CZ adds: “Another misnomer is busy-ness benign equal to productivity.”

Running from one meeting to the next, from one task to the next is easy to then glean productivity from it.
“Just because you aren’t busy doesn’t mean you’re not productive… we’re used to being busy, to driving and doing and running from one place to another… those things that make you busy really takes away from the productivity.”
“Being busy makes you feel secure, but if I’m going to rest on the merit of my work, then I’m trusting that the quality of my work matters and I’m going to let that speak for itself.”

[26:10] Bob asks for practical tips for those who are uncomfortable with rest, who deal with that guilt and deal with that lack of affirmation.

[27:00] CZ responds:

One thing that helped him shift his mindset: tricking your brain into realizing that playing with your kids, go on a walk, etc are being productive, and are preparing you for doing more effective work.
3 powerful words: Intentional, Substantial, Sustainable
- Ensuring that being intentional with activities that will make a substantial impact, to create a sustainable lifestyle

[33:20] CZ adds: Make a “To Don’t” list! You know what are barriers to your productivity, so call them out and be aware and intentional about those things.

Time Budgeting is also helpful- Similar to a financial budget.
We have all the time in the world, but that doesn’t mean we are immediately using that time to do things that we wish we had time for.

[35:00] CZ continues: “What I care most about, I will put the most time, money, and effort into.”

[35:30] Bob interjects: “A To-Don’t list is a great idea… there are always ways that we could have used our time more wisely… where do we plug in down time, rest, etc”

[36:30] Brad adds: “Rest doesn’t feel the same for everyone… be aware of the things that fill you up versus the things that drain you, and balance those activities.”

[40:00] Ken speaks about what might be on your “To-Don’t” list and why its important. “Maybe looking at the news isn’t a necessity every single day… especially during this time.”

[41:00] Bob speaks on the idea that during down time or rest, we are losing opportunity.

This comes from a place of not having enough- the urgency that we add to our “necessities” relies on a mindset of lack.

[41:58] CZ chimes in: “For the most part, we as people are very good at ‘Whats’ and not so good at ‘Whys’.”

[45:00] CZ continues: “Now that many of our ‘whats’ have fallen away, we are confronted with leaning on our ‘Whys’.”

[45:20] Brad asks CZ about his inspiration for writing his book “Soul Rest.”

[45:38] CZ: “It was the result of having a reformational experience in my life.”

He and his wife were engaged with good, meaningful work but realized that it was not sustainable. Burnout was inevitable, because there was no rest.
“My identity, my work, and my value were so intertwined that we’d find ourselves answering the door at 3am to help.. I’d do it all, in my own strength. And it was really exhausting.”
They felt alone, exhausted, heartbroken by their own loss as a couple.
There was a year of hardship and re-evaluating their priorities.

[48:40] Brad asks if his book can be tied into a business perspective.

[49:10] CZ: “The book is centered on the idea of finding our true value outside of the things that we can make and do… part of that journey for me was understanding my position in connection with God… ultimately I had to ask myself, is God enough for me? All of my life had been built around the idea that I am trying to produce, make and SHOW others that I am worthy to God."

Soul Rest: Reclaim Your Life. Return to Sabbath.

View Details

Summary:

Disruption is fast becoming a theme of our daily lives. As we seek out information to make decisions that will impact our businesses, it is more important now than ever to be in communication with our clients. To not only have a seat at the table, but to be taking charge of those relationships and offering stability to our clients in this time of incredible uncertainty. Brian DeMarco has been through the wringer of uncertainty in his life- and he has taken that willingness to adapt into the agency realm as well. In today’s episode we’re diving into the opportunity to deepen relationships during this time of crisis.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

It’s important to step up and provide leadership with your clients and prospects. Make sure they know you are invested in their brand now more than ever. Give them the confidence that they can follow your leadership!
Brian drops some truth: “In every crisis, there’s opportunity. To be honest with you, you have to be courageous enough to seize the opportunity.” This is a time to rise up to the challenge of not only maintaining status quo during this disruption, but to bring others up with you.
More so now than ever, making decisions from a place of fear is NOT the way to go. As we’ve discussed in previous episodes, fear-based decisions almost always have negative results. So during this time of change, it’s important to find stillness and quiet for yourself, to not give into the panic.

About our Guest:

He’s an entrepreneur, motivational speaker, a retired NFL player, and now an agency owner. He’s built two multimillion dollar businesses in both the physical therapy and fitness industries, and now he’s with the fast-growing marketing agency DRAFTR, where they serve clients like Uber, Universal Music, Ram trucks, and Easterseals. Based in Austin, Texas and joining us via Zoom call, we are so thrilled to welcome Brian DeMarco to the Podcast!

Check out Brian’s agency DRAFTR Media
Connect with Brian on LinkedIn

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[1:00] Bob introduces this week’s guest, Brian DeMarco. “He’s an entrepreneur, motivational speaker, and he’s also a retired NFL player. He’s built two multimillion dollar businesses in both the physical therapy and fitness industries, and now with the fast growing market agency Draftr, where they serve clients like Uber, Universal Music, Ram trucks, Easterseals, on and on. He lives outside of Austin, Texas- Brian, welcome to Agency Exposed!”

Brian came into agency ownership the way many do- by accident. He started a business that was successful and became an agency owner out of that.

[3:00] Brian gives context for building his company. Coming out of the NFL he had a severe spinal injury that resulted in fractures in 17 places and 90% loss of function in his right leg. By ‘05 the injuries had gotten worse and worse.

“I was dying in every way a man can be dying- physically, spiritually, financially. Totally destitute, spent every dollar we made in the league on surgeries, rehab, raising our family.”
Amidst poverty and homelessness, he and his wife hinged their hope for his healing on two of the best spinal surgeons in the world, but were devastated by their terrible prognoses.
As a couple, he and his wife prayed together for a miracle, and a short time after that prayer they were inspired to design a machine that would help him learn to walk again.
Through a series of miraculous meetings, events they were able to get this machine built, he learned to walk again, and they set out to make it a business. They raised over $4M and built a company from the ground up.
They won the top 2 design prizes in the world.

[7:05] Brian: “What I loved was the strategy behind building a brand and building community around a brand that was meaningful… I very passionately was just in it every day and building this up, so when the time came around and we got to a certain point, it was obvious that it was just time for me to go.”

His passion led him to help other people experience what he was experiencing, and he had a very good idea of what didn’t work for him in an agency.

[7:51] Brian continues: “I knew all the things that I didn’t like about agencies, I didn’t like the fact that they would never work with me to talk about revenue, using revenue for KPI, for what was being built on the marketing side. So these tough conversations that not many agencies want to have, but that all went into the building of Draftr Media.”

He found a partner, Aaron King, who already had an agency, which became Draftr Media. They were on the same page as far as branding and were able to pursue their passion to be a better agency than what they had experienced.

[9:22] Bob asks Brian about what life is like for Draftr amidst the current shift in the world with Covid-19.

[9:38] Brian reflects on the initial shockwave that everyone had to deal with, and the process of reassuring clients that they could go on.

“Some of them we had to talk off the ledge, so to speak. It’s up to us, as Agency Owners during this time, to help them creatively understand how to re-imagine how they do business and how they meet their clients. Because that’s the effect of the Coronavirus, it’s going to be long lasting in our society. These things aren’t just going to, you know, flip a switch and go away when it’s over.”
“Truth be told, we were all migrating there anyways… living more digitally. So that’s been a big part of the conversations with our clients… reassuring our team that we can reimagine how you do business digitally and how you meet your clients digitally.”

[11:38] Brian continues: “Relatively speaking, it’s easy to be a leader or a CEO when the market is just absolutely booming and you can do no wrong. It’s difficult to lead in times like this, when we’re in a massive trial in our lives, the entire nation. This is when it’s hard to lead, but it’s most certainly needed.”

[12:15] Brian: “There’s no way to sugarcoat this, it’s decimating a large part of our economy for now. But you have to have the courage to look boldly at the future and be determined to win.”

“There’s an old saying in football, ‘Find a way to win.’ Whether that’s a guy stepping up, or the team coming together, whatever that is- find the way to win. That is most certainly where we are now.”
“Every crisis, there’s opportunity. To be honest with you, you have to be courageous enough to seize the opportunity.”

[13:49] Ken responds: “Whether you’re coaching and leading clients or you’re leading your own team- you’re going through something too. And you’d be naive to think that it doesn’t affect you… this is not a passing thing that just goes away. You can’t just hunker down for four weeks and hope that it goes away.”

[14:35] Ken continues: “I believe the better approach is what you said, to assume that this is the new way or a portion of this is, and if you’ve got to do business that way, how can we figure out how to do business that way and thrive. It’s not easy- if it were easy, everyone would do it.”

[14:55] Brian: “That’s why you see brands, like I Heart, stepping up with the concerts and people are going to remember the brand that stepped up during this time to provide them something- entertainment. The one advantage is that people are now walking to the internet in droves to socialize, to be entertaining, to educate, which is another interesting side component of this time… we can educate our kids from home. Our school systems fell in line, our kids are learning. You kind of saw the writing on a wall with schools as we knew them, growing up.”

[16:15] Brad asks Brian: “Tell me some of the things that you’re doing with your agency that are practical that other agencies maybe can glean from it and actually do themselves as well, whether they’re large or small agencies.”

[16:35] Brian speaks on his efforts to “run lean” and never lose the startup mentality as far as resources and spending are concerned. They’ve had to ask themselves where they can pull back where it won’t impact clients- extracurriculars for staff, parties, etc.

“We’ve been very fortunate to date to not have to cut staff. We’re in this situation because we were so proactive with our clients, we weren’t waiting for them to call us with the situation… as soon as it got to the point where people were whispering about a pandemic, we were calling our clients, our leadership teams. We’re calling clients and dealing with this, letting them know that this is something we need to deal with right now. We don’t need to wait, how are we going to react as a brand?”

[19:05] Bob presents: “There may be a temptation to take on clients out of desperation, to take what you can get to backfill things you’ve lost. And I think there’s some wise counsel here.”

Don’t just take the scraps that you can get, you’re going to regret it and it will hurt you down the road.

[19:57] Brian affirms that there is a shift that is happening for companies without a vision. For so long it was easy for people to throw ads up on Facebook and call themselves an agency. He suggests:

“If I were a smaller agency, I would really hone in on what I do well, overstretch your sales pitch and speak out of bounds… Focus on your specialty and what your strong points are.” Stay in your lane!

[21:55] Ken adds: “For the last 10 years or so, anyone can throw up a website and get clients… and no one will know the difference. Experience is really being undervalued.”

Focus on getting highly specialized- that’s the anchor in ALL times, especially now.
In meeting with peers in the venture capital community, Ken has heard that now more than ever, they are realizing the value of strategic people in agencies. “Not just the person who knows how to spend money, but where to spend it.”

[24:52] Brad adds to Ken’s point- “What you’re talking about is, Is your business a commodity or is there something unique about your business that is harder to find? And so a lot of these, if you build your business around a commodity, then you’re just competitive in price. But if you build your business around something greater than that, where you’re the best or the only, then you’re a lot more valuable.”

Oftentimes, companies hire agencies and the agencies don’t really have a seat at the table. But for those that do give you a seat, you have to step up and help them figure things out and provide solutions for them.
Psychologically, there is a huge difficulty in decision-making right now, so if you can get in and provide valuable insight and say “Let me think for you right now.”
“How do you help them get over this hurdle?”

[27:15] Brian responds: “From that standpoint, when we position ourselves early with the brands that we’re working with, that we’re really integrated.”

If you’re not in a position to be integrated with the leadership team at this point, it’s still important to put yourself in a position where you can offer advice and guidance, and let them know that you’d love to speak with them.

[29:25] Brad: “I’ve heard old war veterans say there’s no bond like those that you go to battle with on the front lines.”

It is valuable to take that mindset into consideration in this circumstance- this is a battle that we can equip ourselves to win.
“When there’s a recession, people start to hoard their money and start to pull back their ad spend. That’s sometimes the time where they need to be spending more, but it’s just nature to start cutting, right?”
How can we help our clients during this time and encourage them to resist that feeling and instead reinvent themselves into something great.

[31:13] Brian quotes Henry Ford: “Those that try to save money by stopping marketing are those that stop a clock to save time.”

The first gut instinct for a lot of entrepreneurs is to hold back on marketing- this is a massive fundamental mistake.
Brian made this mistake for himself and had to learn that the correct response is to pour MORE into their budget to get through the hurdle.
Stay proactive as an agency to soothe your employee’s nerves as well.

[34:32] Brian: “We did this with our team, having very real and candid conversations… I didn’t want them working from a place of panic.”

[34:50] Bob asks what Ken and Brad have done to be proactive in their own offices.

[35:02] Ken responds: “We’ve talked about this a lot, acting from a place of fear… this produces horrible results every time.”

What is really valuable is helping someone make the right decision for themselves.
“We’re in a really fortunate position in that our industry isn’t feeling a fundamental shakeup right now.”

[40:00] Brian adds that helping your clients with their perspective is valuable as well. Perspective on other difficult times when you’ve made it through and excelled.

[41:05] Bob speaks on previous podcast episodes: “We talked about funds, do you keep a years funding in the bank, how prepared are you truly to lead?”

[42:31] Brian speaks on the good that will come from this: “The folks that truly understand what it means ot build a brand will be the ones that last through this.”

[44:59] Brad recalls a message from Mark Cuban, who says that he was talking about how after this is all over, he sees our country exploding with new innovation and ideas and energy just because we’re all pent up and we’re all excited and it’s like after a war is finished- our economy will rise.

Sometimes when things are so good for so long, it takes a sharp turn of events to challenge you again, and that’s where growth happens. And that’s something to be excited about.

[46:00] Brian agrees, and tells a story about a recent discussion with a partner. He asked his client at the beginning of a meeting to just sit in stillness for a few minutes to assess his feelings and thoughts.

“It’s important to realize that this is when the best of us comes to the top. So you need to be your best self more now than ever.”

[48:07] Brian asks how we will be impacted by this, as our grandparents were impacted by the Great Depression. Will we hoard toilet paper the way they hoarded canned goods and buried their money in the backyard?

[50:05] Ken adds: It’s important during this time to be present, to value the time you have on your hands. It is more valuable than most things in life, so don’t let this pass with you just holding your breath waiting for it to be over.

Inside of yourself, in your business, in all areas of life!
“You have a choice- come out stronger or don’t. You won’t be the same regardless.”

[52:25] Brian: “You’re dealing with a fundamental human problem, and for a lot of folks, the fear is paralyzing. So this will be a time where the truly smart agencies will rise to the top.”

[53:30] Ken asks one final question: “What are some things from your football days that was ingrained into you that you use when leading and running your agency these days?”

[55:38] Brian shares a piece of advice from a former coach of his, “I’ll trade an ounce of athleticism for an ounce of integrity any day” and “United together with a singleness of purpose.”

The idea of being united by singleness of purpose has stuck with him through it all. At the end of the day, that unity you have with your friends and family is all that matters. Don't just do the job for the unity of the team, but also be encouraged from that team for yourself.

View Details

Summary:

Are you worried about how you’re going to make payroll? Are your prospects not buying? Are you afraid current clients will put things on hold? Are you unsure how to keep SELLING?

We have the same questions.

While these questions are real, the key is to LEAD well through the turmoil and find the opportunity in it. Doing that will separate you from the rest. When everyone is running around in chaos, it may feel counterintuitive to be calm, but that is where the opportunity lies.

Resources Mentioned:

Small Business Administration Disaster Relief Program: https://www.sba.gov/funding-programs/disaster-assistance
How to make healthy decisions no matter what the circumstance

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

It is so easy to get swept up in the panic and fear during this time, but that makes it nearly impossible to make effective decisions. Put your oxygen mask on first, then worry about taking care of everyone around you.
Health is wealth! And not just physical health. Mental, spiritual too. Create a schedule for yourself that feeds every aspect of your health and stick to it. Get outside! Move your body! Breathe!
There is opportunity. Don’t be afraid to take a fresh approach to your own brand’s content creation- there is more desire for online education than ever before!

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:35] Bob welcomes us and speaks on the purpose of this episode. “We want to chat and do what we normally do on the podcast and talk about some things that we’re all dealing with as a business owner, former business owner, current, whatever you’re dealing with… Speak about how current business owners are responding to the current crisis.

[1:10] Ken: This is a quickly changing landscape for businesses… we wanted to discuss what we’re all seeing… and how can we navigate this, not make rash decisions and actually, find the opportunity in all of it, which I think is the key.”

[2:00] Brad discusses being reactive versus proactive and being ready to make that switch in the midst of the chaos that’s happening in the world. “What do we do now? How do we prepare for the future? What can we do currently to prepare for Q3, Q4?”

Hardships during this time are inevitable, so growth is inevitable. But that growth takes intentionality, and that can be elusive during chaos.
“We don’t have all the answers but we’d love to discuss it and see if there’s some things that can be helpful.”

[3:02] Bob: “Let’s start with square 1- mindset. There’s this idea of everyone, specifically our clients, wanting to pull back. Wanting to like put everything on hold. And I think that can carry through to our mindset as well.”

There can be a desire to pull back, but it’s important to ask yourself how you can live in this reality but also expand and become more creative.

[3:57] Ken adds that a lot of businesses are being directly impacted, and they have to react quickly and take massive action. The ripple effects of that impact all of us and our clients feel that as well.

“No matter what you think about the situation and why we got here, we’re here. And no one wants to be here, but you can either choose to accept that and the reality of it and then figure out… how are we going to find the opportunity- or you can retract. And I think that in this scenario, you need to stay in the mindset of expansion.”
The mindset of hysteria is prevalent, and giving in to the different levels of that flying around is a recipe for disaster. It starts with a mindset of health.

[6:47] Brad asks Ken: “How are you personally keeping a mindset that is positive? Instead of thinking about the worst, preparing for the future in a positive way.”

[7:00] Ken speaks about how important it is to control what you’re allowing to clutter your mind. He limits news intake to a need-to-know basis.

“Knowing that 10,000 people have it doesn’t help my decision making process, which just creates anxiety and clutters my mind… I’m choosing to say hey I’m going to be creative in this, I’m going to figure this out, even if not until we’re on the other side of it.”

[8:50] Bob reflects on the instructions that are given by flight attendants on an airplane- that in the case of emergency, put on your mask first before those around you, as you cannot assist others if you are not properly prepared.

“So, one of the first things that we should really talk about before the practical stuff is the most important thing, which is making sure you’re taking care of yourself and making it a priority every day… everybody is struggling right now mentally with this thing on certain levels… some people have to turn off the news altogether because they know that they get depressed, others feel like they’re trapped inside and have to get out, others feel like their business is going to fail because all their clients are going to withhold and shut down. “
It’s vitally important to get outside if you can, breathe deeply, meditate, pray, stretch, exercise. Otherwise everyone around you will suffer even more because you’re not taking care of yourself.

[10:31] Bob: “I think that’s square one for business owners and solo-preneurs and whoever may be listening- just make sure you have some sort of routine and put your mask on first every day.”

[10:57] Ken speaks to the lack of routine that can happen when you’re working from home. It’s easy to never get out of your pajamas, to work for 15 hours a day, to never go outside. This is why during this time more than ever it is vitally important that you’re taking care of those things. When so much of our day to day routine is gone, it’s easy to lose that for ourselves.

[11:47] Brad adds: “You hear people say they either work really well at home or they don’t… half the country is probably struggling working from home while the other half is getting a lot done.”

Really it comes down to how you can protect yourself. If you’re looking to protect your business, you have to protect yourself as well.

[12:51] Brad continues: “You have to have a strong plan, right? It’s good to know the what if’s- not from a place of fear but based out of a clear idea of what you need to do. So if you do get to the point where next month, you’re not able to make payroll, are you going to let people off or are you going to take a personal financial hit yourself and try to take that on…”

Asking yourself what you’re going to realistically do means you really have to whittle away at why you’re in business in the first place. “Is it just for money or is it for a greater purpose than that? I think this can give us more purpose as business owners and understand exactly what our role is in society.”

[15:42] Ken: Having a better understanding of your “Why” through this can allow you to market better and grow through this as a business as well.

“I think you have to have a plan on the expense side… I do think you should look at your expenses and it’s the time to trim down.” This lends itself to the concept of survival of the fittest- you have to figure out what your strengths are and what your weaknesses are.
Aside from trimming down on your expenses, it’s worthwhile to reflect on what the growth plan is through this time.

[17:00] Ken: “We even grappled a bit with the idea of explicity selling your products right now… you have to do it. You can’t be opportunistic or anything like that, but there’s a right way to do it. Ultimately, the way the economy works is by money exchanging hands and people selling and people buying.”

It’s important to continue to sell, in the right ways. Having a mindset of helping and being generous is coming from a place of authenticity.

[18:01] Brad talks about a commercial he saw recently. Cadillac has expanded interest-free financing, they’re delivering a new vehicle to you directly. They’re marketing “We’re all in this together” and that is a message that is positive and impactful during this time.

[19:41] Brad: “I think for all of us in our businesses, how do we provide win-wins for our customers?”

It’s important to take the time to put on your mask and figure out how to keep your business afloat, create a plan and decide how you're going to take care of those things.
“But now it’s time to say, how can we help our customers get through this? And maybe there’s something that we can do to take advantage of this time that can actually offer people value.”

[20:29] Ken adds that aside from explicity selling something of value by reducing the prices of all of their educational products, Metacake is also offering free coaching sessions. That’s not so much part of lead generation as just sharing their strengths.

[22:30] Ken continues to share the ways that Metacake is changing their mindset around the situation. “It’s important that you keep selling, that you keep doing this stuff and you don’t just slow down because of other people, because there’s chaos going on around you. That’s the way I believe we’re going to get through on the business side, by continuing to move the market forward despite the pain and chaos.”

[22:52] Bob: “Since all three of us have experience on the Digital Marketing side, let’s talk a little big about some, many of our clients are using paid media, online ads, whether it be Google or YouTube or Facebook or Instagram… there’s probably a pull to hold back on advertising… but more people are online now than ever before. And so there’s a HUGE opportunity- for those who do the majority of their work online- to actually focus on the current customer LTV, etc. How have you guys been approaching that?”

[24:15] Brad speaks to his experience so far. “We are talking to our clients about it and trying to have a short term and a long term goal with our media spend and whether or not we will need to continue marketing a product that they currently can’t sell.”

If your product is helpful to those in the ecommerce business, you may want to actually increase your spend. But if this isn’t the case, you need to take the time to move that budget and allocate more for things that will be more impactful.

[25:36] Ken asks if Brad has experienced clients pulling back on their spending.

[25:41] Brad speaks to certain types of clients. Some are projects where Brad’s company is marketing events around the world that have now been cancelled.

“This is where our diversity of clients is helpful for us.”
Brad’s concern in Q3 and Q4, what businesses will look like three months from now.

[27:28] Bob: “We’ve had a question come through, Kyle says ‘Now seems like a good time strategically to up our marketing as a content production firm, however we’re also worried about keeping cash in the bank.”

[27:42] Ken responds that financial stability is the most important thing, as Metacake does a lot of content and that financial stability is important. “We’re investing into creating content and in general we’re seeing consumption of that content going up, and we’re seeing ad costs go down.”

“We’re scaling our advertising up because costs are down, and in general we see this as probably the best opportunity to generate leads or future leads- to gain market share and brand equity.”
“The conversion rate on some of our free pieces of content are up to 100%, that’s super interesting. People are taking action- people may be scared or uncertain, but if you can give them certainty in some way, they’re going to take action.”

[30:31] Bob adds that tweaking the messaging slightly, not to be opportunistic, but to be genuine and authentic in response to people’s concerns.

In many instances, there is opportunity for training and education that there wasn’t previously time for in the past- now there is time. And so if you have that product to marketing to truly provide options for people and help guide them through this, then that’s a good thing and people will take advantage of it.

[31:39] Ken: “Another idea is recycling things that you’re good at that you don’t typically sell.” He has gotten a lot of questions about how Metacake works from home and the processes/systems in place that makes that easier.”

[33:00] Brad asks a question from the live feed: “How much money do you think an agency needs to have to get through this as a company? Where do you find sources to make sure you have cash flow on your balance sheet?”

These are strong questions as you formulate a plan of action for yourself and your business. He suggests always having a line of credit, looking into the Small Business Administration’s Disaster Relief program
There is talk of payroll taxes being suspended temporarily as well.

[36:13] Ken adds: “If you’re not doing electronic payments, or if your accounts receivable is really big and delayed, this might be a lesson that after all this you should be switching to electronic payments.”

[37:40] Brad reflects on the fragility of many businesses in America. “60% of American live paycheck to paycheck, and so if you’re one paycheck removed, you’re in a world of hurt.”

As businesses we should be more aware of that and wiser than that.
Even for our business, even just one month can make a big impact.
“You should have at least a year out in the bank, just for security.”

[44:00] Ken speaks on a “new normal”. Amidst all of the anxiety in our world right now, customers aren’t making purchases as frequently and quickly, but ads are doing a lot better.

“Whether we’re at home for who knows how long, things will normalize, people will get into a state of new normal, and that will start to flow again… some of our customers have put things on pause, but there is going to be a new normal that people settle into.”

[45:37] Brad adds that he has clients who have slowed down, but eventually there will be a new normal… right now it feels like week by week. “Even my sentiments last week are different than this week. This Monday I suddenly got a charge, a new energy. I’m more in a rhythm now, more of a new normal.”

Historically humans have bounced back from hardships like this with an excitement to get back to work, with a can-do attitude.

[50:24] Ken adds: “As a business owner, it’s our job to continue to help them [clients] make the right decision- which is moving forward, in the right way… if you believe in what you do, and you believe in the results that you can create, that will help you be in a position to make the right decision.”

[51:45] Bob suggests reaching out clients that you know are struggling and offering to get on the phone and talk through some ideas and let them air their thoughts. “I think this is where as agency owners and creatives, we can really shine.”

[52:52] Brad speaks on the importance of being heard during this time. Some of your clients may not have support at their company, you may be working with a marketing manager who has no access to financial information on their end, who has no support from their higher-ups. This is a time for us to say “hey let’s be a part of your solution, let us help you become a part of the solution for your business as well.”

[55:00] Bob: “I think this is a great time to be investing in giving back to your customers through content, especially helpful content.”

View Details

Summary:

In this episode, we have our guest, Dominic Cummins who has been coaching agencies on how to close more business for years. We’re breaking down his process for not only getting more leads, but more importantly, closing more business. The key is changing mindsets around the sales pitch process. With a natural gift in sales and a deep desire to see companies succeed and flourish, Dominic dives into his coaching strategies for agencies of all sizes- from those making less than $1M per year, to those making $50M+ annually. What is the best use of company funds to draw in new clients? Are RFP’s worth it for my business? What if I’m an introverted salesperson with a fearful apprehension of pitching and getting rejected? Today we dive into these questions and more.

Resources Mentioned:

Robert Collier “Do Me a Favor” Sales Letter
Dominic’s RightMind Coaching and Training: https://rightmindinc.com/

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

It’s not about the number of leads, it’s about the number of leads closed.
It’s not about selling, it's about helping. This one mindset shift will change your sales approach especially in this current uncertain economy.
Before throwing big time and money at a potential new client with travel expenses and pitches, think about the lifetime value of that client.

About our Guest:

Dominic Cummins: After over 15 years in corporate America managing sales and marketing teams around the world, he helped a small software company achieve a $500M dollar exit and took the opportunity to start his own coaching practice for agencies. Dominic specializes in bridging the gap between sales and marketing for companies between 50 and 100 million in revenue. Now he helps those within the marketing community through his Apex Path, a mastermind for agency owners to help them find and fulfill their purpose through a profitable agency.

Dominic on LinkedIn
https://theapexpath.com/

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[3:00] Bob asks Dominic about his career path.

[3:05] Dominic: “I got my brokerage license at 19 and really developed a passion for sales.” He moved up the ladder quickly and by 24 was managing a bank branch but quickly realized that leadership and sales were not the same thing.

Has sold all over the world and honed his skills. “Humans all over the world like to buy, but they don’t like to be sold to. Treat them like human beings.”

[4:45] Bob asks: What do you think is the thing that agency owners get wrong that you help them adjust when you consult with them?”

Dominic responds that there is a prevalent understanding that more leads means more sales.
Hubspot/Salesforce fact: The average industry closing percentage, converting qualified opportunities into sales is 11%. Across all industries 24% or 25% is average- this paints a picture that the actual conversion isn’t being taken advantage of enough.
Leads are expensive, algorithms make it even more challenging. So focusing on purely getting more leads is similar to filling up a leaky bucket over and over again.

[7:35] Ken asks: “Why do you think people focus on leads?”

[8:02] Dominic: “Well it has to do with comfort level… what I see with agencies is they just default to their level of comfort… I’ll get more people into the top of my funnel, and naturally as they fall through I’ll get more leads.”

Cost probably adds to this tendency, but also comfort level plays into it a lot.

[8:50] Bob: “It’s also easier, right? It’s easier to focus on getting that lead versus doing the hard work of the sales process.”

[8:57] Brad adds that a lot of lead funnels are automatic once set up. This allows owners to go and do something else while something else is running in the background to generate more leads.

Asks: “What’s the percentage of closing deals based on the way they came into the agency?”

[9:58] Dominic responds to Brad’s comment on automation. For smaller companies at $1.5-$2 million in revenue, the lead flow is on some sort of autopilot. But for agencies with less than a million, there is virtually no automation in their funnels.

[10:58] Dominic continues: “If you look at the typical conversion of cold traffic to a sale, it’s somewhere between 3 and 5% at most. That varies a little bit by industry, but completely cold traffic is somewhere between 3 and 5%.”

Telemarketing averages 11 to 15%. Significantly harder to do, reward is greater.
Next level up is face to face- 30-40%, or 70-80% if it’s a referral.
- These are more expensive to invest in, but the reward is much much larger.

[13:37] Bob asks for an example of applying what he’s talking about with a larger, $20-$50M agency.

[14:00] Dominic: “The principles are still the same, but at that point, lead generation has to be a component. All three of those things that I mentioned. Keeping in mind that most companies of that size are looking to sell eventually, keeping that automation of leads in line and going strong is really valuable.”

“You’ve gotta have it all.”
For smaller agencies we use the expression a lot “You’ve got to stay close to the transaction.”

[16:11] Ken mentions that there is an excitement around generating leads, it’s definitely prevalent. For those who have wound up in agency ownership without being super intentional about it, going with what you know or what is familiar to you is easy to do.

[18:30] Brad asks: How much percentage of your total revenue should go into sales efforts?

[18:52] Dominic: “For a company to be considered a healthy venture capital acquisition, our cost of acquisition had to be between 18 and 22%... it did not necessarily benefit you to be lower than that…. I just say that 20% of acquisition costs is a good number.”

Factor in other things: sales rep salaries, tech staff to support the sales team, lead costs

[20:48] Brad responds that at a certain point you have to ask “how much more are we going to throw into acquiring a new customer?” It really depends on understanding the customer's value in a year or two- you have to weigh that.

[21:57] Dominic adds: “If it costs you $20K to acquire a customer but you only cash collect $5K, $20K to acquire the next few and only cash collect $10K, you’ve spent $40K to only cash collect $15K- you’re broke.”

[24:23] Ken adds: “If you don’t know your profit margin on the services you provide, that makes it even harder.”

[25:15] Brad: Talk about how you can judge what is worth your time versus when you might need to walk away from an RFP.

[26:12] Dominic responds: “If you’re less than a million dolars, I don’t think you should play in the RFP world because there’s too much rent. As you get larger, that’s fine, you can take that risk.”

RFP’s will take up time and energy that most likely won't’ work for smaller companies.
RFP’s have procurement specialists, etc. if this is going to be the way you build relationships.
Working with ESPN came through an RFP that they introduced based on relationship building- it was a year worth of relationship building.

[30:00] Ken adds that his perspective is a bit different. “It’s basically gambling with a lot of money and a lot of time, time being even more expensive than they money side of it.”

[30:25] Brad adds that he only participates in RFP’s if a client has already told him they were in the running- there has to be a sense of possibility in it in order for it to be worth it.

[31:37] Ken adds that RFP’s are notoriously a pain, as they set up the relationship dynamic very poorly. One party will invest a lot of time and effort to “the royalty” in hopes of getting “knighted”... this creates an imbalance in the relationship.

[32:54] Bob: “If I’m a business owner and I want to get a bunch of work done, I need to shop around to get the best price.”

[33:23] Ken: “There is a bar that the RFP process often goes over in pitching, which is beyond ‘here’s what i think it will cost’ to the point where you’re spending $50K to send 5 peopel out there and throw a pitch at them along with the RFP.”

[34:00] Dominic adds: Often RFP’s are used a lot in the government, when vetting of security clearances is necessary, etc.

[35:48] Brad asks: “What advice would you give someone who doesn’t have a ton of money to send people out and fly around… where woudl you put the energy?”

[37:00] Dominic responds: “Work your network… stay close to people and talk to them.”

Ask those close to you for their opinions, get their buy-in and keep them in the loop about what you’re up to, what you’re looking at.
Recalls a Robert Collier letter- asking for a favor. “That principle of just going to the people that you know and asking a simple question, would you do me a favor.”
People love to give you their opinion, people love to do favors. Work your network and focus on that.

[42:36] Brad: “I seem to avoid that human contact because I’m kind of afraid of rejection.”

Learn from it, refine.

[43:15] Dominic adds that when you do meet people in person, think of it the same way you do with CTA’s on a landing page. That landing page isn’t meant to make the sale, it’s meant to encourage the visitor to opt-in. So when you meet someone in person, think of it as trying to get them to “opt-in” instead of making a hard sale.

Will you opt-in to having lunch?
Will you opt-in on giving me your opinion?

[44:50] Ken adds that: “If you switch the idea or the mindset- when I meet someone I’m not trying to sell them, talk about my resume, make them think I’m awesome. I’m just trying to gather information- then you don’t have to fear the rejection so badly.”

“I’m curious to know if there are any tactics specifically that you can do to help increase your tolerance for rejection as a human being.”

[46:39] Dominic: “It feels less like rejection when all you’ve done is offered to help. If they choose not to take your help, that’s not rejecting you. They’ve rejected the help… which doesn’t make sense to most people.”

You’re just providing Value in Advance- you’re earning more time with them by giving them value and have those conversations with them.
“It feels less like a transaction and more like a natural flow.”
“The best salespeole that I know are introverted. I am an introvert. But I know that I can provide help for agency owners. I know I can make them better, and that passion drives me, and so I offer that help in as many ways as I can.”

[48:40] Brad adds that changing the mindset is super helpful. Asks “Who is the right team when you’re pitching?”

[50:10] Dominic: “Avoid founder selling syndrome, where the founder is really the only one who can make the sales- and that’s because your sales process isn’t good enough, you’re not articulating it well enough to teach other people to do it.”

[50:45] Dominic mentions Make RC who runs large podcasts and has an agency that caters specifically to certain kinds of gyms.

His model is that everyone on his team is a salesperson. He does sales training for the entire company every morning- 15 minutes every morning and they’re all getting training. “Nothing but good for your company.”

[52:19] Bob asks one final question: What would you say is the one thing that any business of any size could do that could generate more referral business for them?

[52:54] Dominic: “Treat them well. We are very good at following up on a sales basis.”

“Look for any opportunity to just have a conversation that doesn’t have anything to do with your fulfillment… find reasons to talk to them and just general relationship reasons because you want to become invaluable… Stay on top of mind from a sales perspective.”
Treat your customer base like you would your telemarketing base. Stay in touch. Call them all the time.”

[55:13] Dominic plugs his website: apexpath.com or follow him on LinkedIn!

View Details

Summary:

We talk about "disruption" in business all the time, but we rarely expect disruption to come from the external. The population's reaction to Coronavirus / COVID-19 has disrupted everything including business. Some businesses are being affected in immediate ways, and others will see lagging affects, but no business is immune. Regardless, we know that seasons will come and go. Winter will always come, it will be hard, but the shedding will produce fruit IF we adapt appropriately.

In this special episode we unpack how we are seeing the effects of Coronavirus in our businesses and how we are processing dealing with them.

Resources Mentioned:

Ford vs Ferrari (Available on Amazon Prime)
Remote - Office Not Required by Jason Fried (Founders of Basecamp )
A 4 Step Leadership Framework for Making Healthy Decisions Not Based in Fear
Slack: https://slack.com/
Basecamp: https://basecamp.com
Zoom: https://zoom.us/
Dropbox: www.dropbox.com

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Radically recognize that your business WILL be affected from this situation in some way. The sooner we accept this fact, the sooner we can go from reacting and surviving to responding and thrivin in this experience (this applies to all times in life, not just a global pandemic).
- Slack
- Basecamp
- Dropbox
- Zoom
Maximize your team’s work-from-home productivity with systems and processes, then of course the tools that we all use and love:
It is vital to seek out balance between what we can control and what we can’t. Don’t live life in fear. Commit to live in abundance and adapt.

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:35] Bob mentions the Coroniavirus (Covid-19) and refers to his recent article. “We talk a lot about disruption, right… this disruption is coming from the outside that we have no control over this time… It’s not Facebook being disruptive or Apple being disruptive… Let’s discuss how we’re being affected by it, by our clients that are being affected by it.”

[2:13] “Anytime you’re disrupted by anything, it’s hard but it causes you to adapt and that ultimately is a good thing. And so how are we doing that?”

[2:16] Bob: “How are we learning from this? This is a huge lesson that we are being given whether we like it or not.”

[2:24] Brad: “Is this a gift? Is that what you’re saying?”

[2:41] Bob: “I know that there’s the reality of people dying in pain and there’s a lot of negative things that go along with it. But when it’s all said and done… I think we’ll look back and say wow the Coronavirus was the end of… fill in the blank. And those are the things maybe that we can learn from this and adapt as well.”

[4:32] Ken speaks on the widespread business effects of the virus- tourism, music, restaurants, etc- “But in our world, the agency world, we often operate in the digital world… but our clients maybe not right? So that’s why we’re here today- to talk about we as agency owners can help other businesses that are being affected… And then the other area that might be interesting is Are we being affected right now?”

[5:04] Ken speaks on how it’s important to understand that just because you work in the digital world, or just because you can go remote quickly or easily doesn’t mean that you won’t be impacted. It’s important as a business leader that you are looking ahead. “If we’re not looking ahead, that’s probably very naive and unwise. And so today we want to sort of looking ahead to that.”

[5:44] Brad gives his take and the way his business is being impacted. “I think within the next week or so I’ll begin seeing some immediate effects.”

Currently he can feel some clients scrambling to make changes, to prepare for what is to come. They want to ensure that their business is able to survive, but if that survival include financial cuts in the coming months, how will that impact his business relationship with them?
Brad is asking himself questions about their busienss model- What time of year is their revenue strongest? Is this going to hurt that period of time or the work that we have forecasted for them down the road?
Many scenarios could be played out, but ultimately “Everybody seems to be on a day by day basis.”

[8:00] Brad: “Its really hard to manage a business when you don’t know what tomorrow may look like… it’s a challenging time for clarity. It’s a major challenge for me because I have to be reactive. And I don’t like being reactive, I like being proactive. And there’s a certain level of, you just have to trust that humans are going to figure this out.”

[9:51] Brad: “I don’t fear for my life, but I fear that I could pass it on to somebody else.”

[10:13] Brad speaks on other financial happenings that will eventually impact every business, regardless of your exposure. The stock market tanking is one example.

[11:32] “I feel like if you could take the financial crash of 2008- 2009 and mix that with Y2K, add some bird flu, add some swine flu… you got this perfect storm.”

[11:46] Bob reflects on the panic surrounding Y2K in the 90’s and relating the very real fear of specific impacts versus the panic about planes falling out of the air and people getting stuck in elevators. This is similar, with people stockpiling toilet paper and creating a panic around that. People have been arrested for claiming to have a cure for the Coronavirus.

“As you walk that middle ground to try to parse what is real and what is not, how do you live above it all?”

[14:00] Bob asks: “How do I learn from this as a business? How do I survive and not just follow the herd?”

Bob shares about Ford vs Ferrari, a movie about Henry Ford and how a large group uniting over common interest led to an intense, fast period of innovation that disrupted an entire industry, all because one man decided it could happen.
This is the way that humanity will step up to tackle the vaccination process for Covid-19.

[16:29] Ken speaks on accepting the reality of the situation and not being resistant to your business changing. Radical acceptance of having NO control or clarity on life is a journey and process that builds strength and resistance to the pains of life over time.

[20:39] Ken: “The biggest challenge [with older, traditional clients] is cracking through the mindset that this is just how it works. We can’t change… if you’re in that mindset, you’re probably going to be disrupted by this and you will not get out of it until you change that mindset.”

So acceptance is first, then gaining energy out of it is second. Be energized by the fact that now we have to innovate.
A lot of good things come in winter, and this is a winter for a lot of people. There is going to be a shedding of things, and space for new growth.

[24:00] Brad: “I don’t think we give ourselves enough credit as humans, we can figure things out pretty quickly if we need to… like in that movie you were talking about Bob, he probably wasn’t focused on the time constraints, just on focused on the end result.”

Brad provides assurance for new agency owners who may be experiencing their first real challenge as a business owner- we will all get through this. We are being sharpened and although that is painful, you will come out wiser for this experience.

[30:35] Ken speaks on the importance of project management tools, to get your workforce at home and safe if possible.

Basecamp for Project Management Communication
Slack for messaging internally, as well as about specific clients or internal projects
Zoom for video conferencing calls
Dropbox for large files

[34:05] Brad mentions GoToMeeting, his company is very comfortable with that as a video call resource.

[35:00] Brad speaks about planning for future projects in your own business. “Just be really thoughtful financially about where you are… every business you’re deciding your next step and what you’re going to invest in… prioritize what’s important in the long run. Also: How do we leverage time? How do we see this as an opportunity to leverage this time in our business?”

How do you figure out how to not only survive, but thrive in the midst of this chaos?

[36:04] Ken mentions resources on getting the most out of working from home, including a boo written by the creators of Basecamp.

[38:00] Bob asks “What are some things you guys know you are going to throw away during this time, and how are you trying to thrive through this?”

[39:45] Ken: “We’re considering how to offer genuine help in genuine ways to businesses that are actually affected… so we’re considering… retail vs online… we may be offering some support for no charge for a little bit.”

Perhaps some businesses who didn’t have an online presence prior to this could try during this time to transition over. This won’t be the case for all, but some businesses might view this as an opportunity to diversify.

[42:59] Bob: “I think there’s going to be a huge boom in virtual reality through this… we may be forced at home in our cocoons, but we have eyes to see more than ever before.”

[45:34] Brad reflects on technology and the speed of communication having an impact on this situation: “Is it the actual virus or is it the information that is actually traveling faster? You only realize it when something like this happens, just how deeply entwined we are with everyone these days… supply chains in china are impacting our direct daily lives here.”

[46:41] Brad: “We try not to drive our businesses out of fear, right? But the reality is, is that when stuff like this happens, you realize how much out of control we all kind of are in our businesses that we do have to be reactive.”

[49:50] Bob talks about how there is a fine line between benefiting from a terrible thing and being opportunistic, but also balancing the reality that we are all humans and all interconnected. It’s important to keep clarity on that fact in the distance as we make day by day decisions that have a rippling impact.

[52:56] Ken speaks on balance.

Some personalities almost seem to enjoy adversity, because they know that there is immense growth at their fingertips. But having the self control to step back and keep the human element alive in your process of not only surviving but thriving is so important.
Being forced to look yourself in the mirror during these times of stress often brings revelation and growth. Because every other businessperson on the planet is experiencing the same thing, there is an incredible sense of beauty about this time as well.

View Details

Summary:

David is a self-made solo-preneur from right here in Nashville. With massive achievements inbusiness, marketing, celebrity branding, book publishing and more, David is helping us understand the other side of agency life. As someone who’s passion for business growth has propelled him to the forefront of his field, David helps us dig into the role agencies have played in his journey and drops some great marketing advice around value propositions, and using buyer skepticism to your advantage (even writing entire marketing campaigns based on those skepticisms!).

Resources Mentioned:

More about David: https://www.linkedin.com/in/davedutton/
David’s Book
Influence by Robert Cialdini
psychotactics.com
Dean Jackson from ilovemarketing.com, MoreCheeseLessWhiskers podcast
Gun to the Head Marketing by Kamron Karington
The Way of the Wolf by Jordan Belfort

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Practice what you preach! If you, as an agency, aren’t practicing your own strategies within your business, how can you expect anyone to trust you with theirs?
Recognize the type of business you are talking to and the role that you need to play in their business. You need to be the expert in your area. If you are just hands and feet, you are disposable.
Speak to the skepticism in your audience, don’t run from it! The humanity in us all means we are suspicious of perfection, and we recognize BS when we see it. Lead with the skeptical belief, and break it down with your value proposition and trust elements.

About Our Guest:

Author of seven books and a millionaire entrepreneur, David Dutton’s story and knowledge of marketing will astound you. From starting with nothing to building a multi million dollar business from scratch in just four years, you are surely going to get some takeaways from our sit down interview with him.

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[1:00] Bob introduces David Dutton

[1:25] David gives an overview of his life and the road that led him to Ecommerce. Speaks on the Ecommerce wave of the early 2000’s.

Fell into the ecommerce space and began making money from it quickly!
“I’m going to pick a niche and I’m going to make $500 a month passively.”

[8:00] In 2001 David started replaceyourmortgage.com to teach people to pay off their mortgage in 5 to 7 years.

[9:35] Ken clarifies: “The thing you’re selling is education.”

David’s site is a membership site, with a 1-time fee that pays for itself.

[9:56] Bob remarks on David’s self-teaching. Oftentimes people hire agencies to do the things that David has done, so his view of agencies is a unique one, as both the customer and the provider.

[10:55] Brad asks: How is your style different from what agencies have done? How does your passion and “having skin in the game” impact the way you do business?

[11:48] David: “Bottom line, I look for results… branding and direct response is important… when I interview an agency I need to know that we’re going to geta result. That’s teh biggest thing for me.”

[12:20] David’s rule for salespeople:

Don’t sign up someone that doesn't need to be signed up.
Respect our brand.
Sell stuff.

[12:49] Ken asks about David’s role within his team.

[13:00] David: “I have an assistant, my partner has an assistant, then 8 salepeople and a couple support roles.”

Internal sales people and external as well.
To help pay for advertising, he has some external salespeople that pay them for leads and appointments.

[14:55] Bob: Talk about how you value cost of acquisition and lifetime value of customer.

[15:30] David: “Once a human being has handed you their visa, they’re 6x more likely to do it again.”

It’s vital that once you get them as a customer, to sell them more stuff.
He leads with a free book, because people trust people with books.

[17:18] Brad: “So that’s how you get that authority, with that book. Understanding those strong concepts is the way to go… How do you overcome the naysayers with proof?”

[18:25] David: “If I want to convince someone to hand me their Visa… you have to knock the walls down to get to that point.”

[19:00] David: “I try to make it so that there is a preponderance of truth...I try to stack that so it’s obvious.”

There is a page on their website that is 150 case studies of PROOF for clients.
Writing a book builds that preponderance of proof.

[20:45] David: “When I write a book, I want you to walk away with innate value from that book.” Even if someone doesn’t make a sale, he wants there to be inherent value in that book so that his brand is associated with their understanding of that concept.

[22:15] Bob brings the point back around: “So you’re building this case to deal with the naysayers. What you’re saying is that you’re doing that work so that other people tell them and convince them as well.”

This social proof is vital and effective.

[25:30] Ken emphasizes the barrier that David’s business has to pull down- it’s large and difficult to do.

He “de-risks” the sale super effectively, especially within his industry.

[27:13] David speaks on the danger of blending in with the crowd: “Don’t be white noise… grab their attention first and build that desire. You NEED to use my agency to grow your business, and here’s why.”

[27:55] David suggests creating a spreadsheet of your top 5 or 10 competitors and noting their strengths and their weaknesses, and compete based on those. “You can be brand new and still piggyback on the knowledge that other companies have created.”

[29:43] Ken asks: “What are other things you do to de-risk your purchases and prove to customers that you are legit?”

[29:46] David: “I use math, #1. You can’t argue logic.”

6-month moneyback guarantee

[31:25] Brad asks: How do you simplify for those who aren’t particularly math-savvy?

Give them the worst-case scenario, and soothe their pain points. (Fear of interest rates skyrocketing is one example.) Risk-reversal.
“Can you live with the worst-case scenario?”

[34:29] Brad adds that David brings a lot of authority to the table when it comes to verbiage surrounding mortgage rates and loan lingo- for a lot of people these terms and this world is scary and unpredictable, but David has a way of bringing out those fears and speaking directly to them.

“You do what we encourage our clients to do, you build strong narratives, you have authority. You provide social proof.”

[35:10] David: “We’re all trying to move up, to elevate ourselves in society. So if you know that someone can provide that for you, and you trust them.”

“Trust triggers” like books, word of mouth- people trust those who’ve written books.

[35:31] Brad speaks on the power of getting referrals and the reliability of leads that come through referrals. “How do you get those stories for your case studies?”

[36:02] David: “Typically it’s hard to get people to post anything- much less something positive.” Getting people in the moment to give their honest feedback after they’ve had a good experience.”

While sugary testimonials are great, getting a before and after picture of how their problem has changed. What was your mindset about us prior to working with us? What is your mindset now? How did you feel when you were paying us? Would you recommend us to someone and why?
Capturing this before and after while the situation is fresh.
Mention the negative view the client had before, and follow it up with how you changed that perspective for them. This draws in the naysayers with a surprise ending.

[38:05} David: “So if you’re an agency, go out and get your top 5-10 objections. And then get testimonials that answer those questions.”

Speak to their fear and then provide a solution.

[38:15] Brad asks: “Why do you think humans are drawn to negativity and skepticism?”

38:40 David: “I’m not sure why… and I don't like it. But it’s never going to change. And so I use that.”

[39:10] Bob recalls a study that he read about, that negative information stick to the human brain instantly, whereas positive information takes about 20 seconds to fall away. This is essentially survival, fight or flight in our psyche.

We may not have bears chasing us, but we do have people saying negative things about us.

[40:26] Bob: “ When I see something positive and I like it, I know it’s not going to stick in my brain. So I try to reread it. And meditate on it and sit with it so that it does stick and overcome the negative things that automatically stay.”

[40:55] Ken: “Just being different is important too, right?” Many websites are using positive reviews to convince people to buy, so putting a spin on it (negative headline followed by how the biz answers that pain point) is different and pattern-interrupting.

[42:03] Ken adds that also just being genuine makes a huge difference. “...there’s obviously skepticism in every single sale. And so saying it and calling attention to it actually makes it more believable.”

[44:15] Brad and Bob discuss using negativity that is inevitable in your business to your advantage. When most people see nothing but good reviews with no negative, the human discernment kicks in and skepticism takes over, because it doesn’t seem real.

[45:00] David circles back around to authority and proof. “I literally just think about who the person is that I want to hand me money. And what can I do to make it SO obvious.”

Write to the person who is in the MOST desperate need of your help, pack your offer FULL of a story, powerful proof and data that will convince ANYONE who falls under your prospect umbrella.

[47:00] Ken: “So the prerequisite for that is knowing your customer persona, avatar, etc with great detail… Often agencies are the worst at that, because there’s the mindset that ‘Everyone is my client!’ which makes it hard to speak to that one person with specificity about their pains and also do what you’re saying… shoot for the worst-case scenario person.”

[47:42] David: “one of the emails that I came up with that can help any agency, any biz. The subject line is ‘Your top 3 Questions answered about____ (today only)’ that just offers answers to questions they may have in a future newsletter.”

This creates a backlog of topics that you can then put into a google sheet and begin collecting more information about what topics come up and what the pain points are within each. And it allows you to create images of each persona and the specific pain points within that grouping. It allows you to see the verbiage and EXACT points that you can then use in your copy to speak to those pain points.
This ALWAYS boils down to a small set of topics.

[50:50] Ken recounts a story in Jordan Belfort’s book- objections were listed en masse and they all boiled down to a small list of basic objections.

[51:57] David: “You can even write a whole article about those- speaking to those pain points directly.”

[52:55] Bob asks: “When you are outsourcing, do you look for specialists or generalists?”

[53:03] David says mostly specialists, but sometimes specific skills are required. But specialists are preferred, someone who “nerds out” on what they do.

[54:02] Bob asks for advice for agency owners.

[54:28] David says he wrestles with real experience within agencies, he wrestles with getting results, getting paid on spend (instead of results).

He wants to feel like the agency is in the boat with him, that his money is being used by a TEAM member, not someone who’s trying to screw them over.

[56:58] Ken speaks on the validity of these concerns.

[58: 57] Brad: “The old agency way is that we make money on media and we give away the creative for costs that are almost free now.”

[1:02:33] Ken speaks on the flaws in a straight ad-spend model. “At the end of the day you do have to figure out how does the value that I contribute scale in a nice proportion to the value that you’re creating inside of the company you’re working for? I do think there are some flaws in a straight ad spend model.”

[1:04:35] Ken speaks on a cool takeaway: “You’ve done the thing for yourself, you are the master. And you can do it for other people. A lot of the time agencies don’t focus on doing the things for their own business that you’re offering to do for other clients.”

[1:05:20] Bob: “I think that’s a good marker for choosing an agency- are they doing for themselves what they’ve promised you they’ll do?”

Influence: The Psychology of Persuasion, Revised Edition

Way of the Wolf: Straight Line Selling: Master the Art of Persuasion, Influence, and Success

View Details

Summary:

Fear - the most detrimental emotion. What’s worse is making decisions in this irrational state. Yet so many people live and operate in this state daily. In business and in life, there is no shortage of things to incite fear. As an agency leader, you know more than most about the dangers of fear-based decision making. Honestly, most days you probably feel like King Solomon… “cut the baby in half!”. Balancing demanding clients, financial challenges, personnel issues, taxes, accounting, market shifts, and about 1 million other situations while inspiring an encouraging and transparent office culture that inspires great work on a high level can seem impossible. Well, it turns out leadership is not for the faint of heart. It’s downright hard. This is no easy task, and there is A LOT of room for fear to sneak in and sabotage your decisions. How can you create the financial stability that your business needs without turning off clients or putting your personal finances in jeopardy? Where do you turn when your brain is stuck in a state of unreality? We get vulnerable about some of our fears. We dive into strategies we have learned for coping with this pressure and what has given us the most relief and encouragement through this process.

Resources Mentioned:

A 4 Step Leadership Framework for Making Healthy Decisions
Keith Cunningham CPA Masterclass: https://keystothevault.com/

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Fear is useless beyond the flag it raises about a potential threat and puts you in an irrational state not optimal for making sound decisions. Learning to control that fear and put it in its place means freedom.
Health (physical, emotional, spiritual) and Preparation (planning) is the first step to clearer and more level-headed decision making.
By recognizing fear and having the tools to manage it, you will be able to make better decisions and take healthier action that allow you to thrive rather than react in any situation in life and in business.

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[1:25] Bob: “We wanted to talk today about fear, anxiety, and not being controlled by it… How does it control you in the business situation, for those of us who are running agencies, work at agencies, engaged with agencies, whoever you are…”

[2:06] Bob: I failed at this miserably in my business and I was driven by fear many times and made a lot of bad decisions that cost my business, myself, my people that work for me… I learned a ton, I am thankful for that… I know I was not alone, even though I felt like I was.”

Fear-based decision making is something that “plagues and can wreak havoc… but can also be a really good way to shore up and protect your business.”

[2:57] Brad relates fear in business with thinking about the unknown.

“For me personally, it’s not having clarity on my business that immediately brings me fear… I have to get to the point where I don’t have to know everything because I can’t control everything.”

[3:25] Brad: “I can’t control whether a client decides to do something different and no longer wants to work with us… or if the economy tanks and we go through a recession and people quit spending, I can’t control a lot of that… from the unknown.”

Brad asks about things that others have done to be proactive instead of reactive based in fear.

[4:10] Ken speaks about how not making fear-based decisions is a core personal value.

“Fear is a really detrimental emotion, right? When it pervades past the initial emotion of showing you that there’s a situation that needs your attention, that’s great but beyond that, if you’re not aware of it, it just takes over.”

[5:07] Ken asks: “Have you ever made a really good decision based in fear? Probably not… How many things have you NOT done out of fear? Because fear is one of those emotions that actually stops you- it’s used strategically sometimes in the marketplace to stop you from doing something.”

“Getting a handle on fear, I think is one of the most practical things you can do as a business owner and a leader.”

[5:50] Ken: “I don’t think anyone can control their fear… that’s a hard thing to do. What you can do is be aware of it and once you’re aware of it you can manage it appropriately. That takes a lot of conditioning… it’s like a muscle, not like a switch that you flip on an off, but a willpower that you build up over time.”

[6:25] Bob: “I think we should talk briefly about some of the psychology around it… one of the most helpful things for me is understanding that your brain doesn’t know if something is really happening or not. It’s all about what your senses are, what you’re thinking and feeling, and then your brain acts accordingly. And so that’s where fear can paralyze us as business owners.”

This is a state of unreality that your brain goes into, this world of possibility that anything could happen. But your brain doesn’t know it’s unreality- it thinks it’s happening.

[7:55] Bob tells us a story about a new VR game that simulates falling off of a building, and relates it to the idea that your brain doesn't know what’s real or not- you know you’re safe but your body still produces the adrenaline and sensation of falling.

“I really think if enough people could understand that small part of how fear affects us, it would be really helpful.”

[8:54] Brad adds: “If you have fear, you’ve somehow experienced something similar in the past where it wasn’t a positive thing. So the more you can overcome the fear and go through experiences and see the positive outcome, the next time you go through that, it’s not going to be so fearful.”

If you think about the things you deal with on a day to day basis that are rooted in fear, then take a totally opposite perspective of those things, think about what’s the worst that could happen.

[9:52] Brad: “If the worst were to happen, you might have to go through a little bit of hardship, but comparable to other people in this world, all three of us have it made. So it’s this attitude of gratefulness that we’re grateful for what we have and that we really don’t need all that much to be beautiful human beings.”

[10:33] Brad continues: “For me, it’s a constant battle with myself of really, how should I react to this and how can I have a sound mind going into this so that I know I’ll be clear-headed through the process where I’m not owning that fear to the point where it becomes unrealistic.”

[10:57] Ken: “I think that’s an important aspect of combating fear is identifying the source of information that’s creating the fear in you… Seeking truth is really important right? In business and in life… Can you trust opinion? Are your interests aligned with the people that are giving you those opinions?”

Ultimately, your brain doesn’t know what is true and what isn't. So the worry that you allow yourself to have, the rabbit trails you go down actually tell your brain that these things ARE happening.
Step 1 is figuring out what the Truth is.

[13:00] Bob adds: “The only person that has your best interest at heart concerning your mental

wellbeing is you.”

OWNING this truth is the next step.

[13:53] Bob: “Don’t isolate yourself- talk about your fears… As a business owner you carry so much internally… those narratives can go to some pretty crazy places in your head… Sit down with trusted friends and advisors to talk them through.”

[14:34] Brad speaks on when he feels the most fear. When there’s already a lot going on in your business and you’re already running on low fuel, the fear and anxiety can really take over. So it’s important to take a look at your calendar and start removing the things that aren’t necessary, to give yourself space to think clearly.

He suggests first looking at the way you’re taking care of yourself and work from there.

[16:15] Ken speaks on how intentional you have to be with this- taking care of yourself and your body has to become an initiative in your life.

[18:00] Ken: “Whether you like it or not, you're in that position where you need to come prepared, be conditioned to lead your organization appropriately. That’s just the role you’re in… and you have to accept that. And once you do, it’s like okay that means I have to live a life that has these qualities to it because I need to be conditioned.”

[18:46] Brad: “It’s really hard to lead a company when you’re just reactive.”

How do you become proactive so that you can prepare for these moments.
“How do you take that fear and flip it on its head and have it become an experience that’s positive?”

[20:10] Brad speaks on the power a client has to put additional pressure on a team, and how important it is to communicate with the client early on to put more demands on how they will work with you.

“So it’s just being more clear, clarity is always key. Understanding what we will do and what we won’t do… so that in the case that their expectations are different, we can try to eliminate that.”

[21:41] Bob asks the guys to speak on the “guard rails” that they keep in place to keep them on a healthy track.

Belong in 2 buckets: Financial guards for your business health, and then relational and client guards.

[22:24] Ken: “I believe the business world has some potentially fatal, or sort of toxic relationships that happen, or modes of operation…. They don’t come from a bad place, they’re almost accepted.”

[24:43] Ken speaks about the way Metacake approaches client relationships “Hey, we want to be able to serve your and over-deliver with the value that we create… we have to be extremely excited at the end of whatever we do. And the only way we can do that is if we can focus on that and not have to worry about being paid.”

[25:45] Bob: “That comes down to processes right? So a clear statement of work, clear agreements… not just that you create them and your clients sign them, but that you go through a reading process and an understanding of what hours you work, when, how you communicate, what’s expected from them.”

[28:02] Ken: “I think that it’s important to challenge traditions appropriately, to make sure they’re actually done in healthy ways.”

[28:15] Bob asks Ken how Metacake figured out how to solve the billing issues that plague a lot of agencies.

[28:36] Ken was told by a mentor that the #1 threat to your existence is cash flow.

Oftentimes, cash in the bank is seen as a sort of nebulous thing that is always pushed off and away. You have clients that don’t pay in 60, 90, 120 days and so mentally you think there is a lot more cash in the bank than there actually is. And it can be devastating for small and large agencies alike.
“The reality of what it is, that means you don’t get paid for 3 months, can you float everything for 3 months? Arguably, that’s more of a loan and you should be getting paid interest on it, right?”

[31:15] Ken continues: We wanted to solve the cash flow issue… we went to electronic payments and split the payments appropriately over the months of the engagement. So whether that’s a retainer or whether that’s a project, we just spread it out sort of evenly.”

[32:53] Bob asks Ken how long it took Metacake to transition away from the traditional pay structure of agencies.

[34:15] Brad speaks on the pain of back and forth to get payment from some clients, and how much time, energy, and attention that this process that take/waste.

[35:00] Ken adds that when you’re in this back and forth with a client, it’s a big and important unknown detail that you’re not in control of- and THIS allows fear into the equation immediately.

“One of the things you can do to combat fear-based decisions is preparation… and one of the main areas where fear manifests is in finances… if you can find some security around that, it’s worth it… I shoot for having one year of operating capital in the bank. That is a lore more than most financial advisors say you need, but for us that’s one of the things that allows us to say ‘Hey I don't’ want to be hiring and firing staff all day long.’”

[39:23 ] Bob asks Brad: “What about Anthem Republic? What are some key things that have eliminated fear and anxiety for you?”

[39:38] Brad responds: Service agreements that have more guidelines and guardrails, early communication.

“I’m making sure that that capital is being invested so it’s making money while it’s sitting there.”

[42:50] Ken adds: “That’s one area I think most business owners may or may not be first in… but either you’re really versed in it or you have no clue… Should you have a financial advisor?”

[43:09] Brad: “A business owner has to be financially healthy in order for the business to be healthy financially.

[44:33] Ken: “You being healthy first is the only way that you can lead a company that makes everyone else healthy.”

[44:37] Brad: “And that helps me as well with my fear personally. If I feel as a whole, I’m okay, for the time being, then even if my business feels like it’s struggling or you feel like you might be losing a client or some financial resources… it’s not 2 ships that are sinking, right? And that helps alleviate some of that pressure for me.”

[45:14] Bob asks: “If you are working on yourself and you want that to permeate your atmosphere at work as well? Do you guys provide any opportunities for your staff? Because they might be internalizing a lot of this themselves, right?”

[47:22] Brad: “The challenge is how to you be transparent with employees so they understand.”

[48:13] Ken responds: “I believe fear is spread so easily and it’s almost like as human beings, it’s like we want to spread it… for a lot of people it’s sorta like gossip or anything else, maybe it helps us feel better… but as a business leader, it’s not rational.”

Ken invites a friend and local pastor as a counseling resource for his team, on a private basis.
Internally, Metacake has a culture of not spreading fear and anxiety. Not suppressing it, but dealing with it in mature and healthy ways.

[51:07] Bob asks about the way The Guys deal with anxiety and fear personally. “I know for me, I’m learning how to be present and breathe in those situations… Do you realize how shallow your breathing becomes when you are doing this kind of stuff?”

[52:21] Brad adds that turning back to scripture is incredibly helpful. That and “having a heart of gratefulness… to look at everything I do have and not what I will lose.”

Sometimes our anxieties and fears actually revolve around things that are not that valuable in life. So returning to gratitude has really helped to relieve stress.

[53:55] Ken speaks on how there was fear in his formative years concerning immediate safety, so he realized early on that the only way to take control of that fear is through seeking health in every aspect of his life: mentally, spiritually, physically.

“To me, being a leader, in a family or a business or whatever, is a very high calling. If pro athletes train and condition for a game, how much more important is your own training and conditioning in life?”

[56:58] Ken: “I don’t think God has fear for you- I don’t think that comes from God… and you might even say that faith and fear can’t coexist.”

Faith is a big component because, like we’ve discussed before, when your decisions are based on something that is greater than you, whether that’s a purpose or a mission or a connection to a higher power, that takes the pressure off you, and that can help balance out any fears that come.”

[58:34] Bob speaks on how releasing responsibility can be freeing- “I’m only responsible for me, not my employee’s lives or clients lives. And I’m not responsible for the way my clients feel about me or how they respond to me. My job is to know that what I’m doing is the right thing to do.”

View Details

Summary:

If you’re an agency leader, you’ve got a “how it all began” story. Whether you set out to be a mega-influencer in your field, or like many, you stumbled into owning a running a company as an afterthought of following your passion. Yet we’re all inundated with the notion that we HAVE to be getting bigger. If you’re not growing you’re dying, right? While that is true, growth doesn’t necessarily mean size growth. There is a point when you have to ask yourself “Should I be scaling this?” In today’s episode we break down this question and dig into the WHY behind what we all do. Contrary to popular belief, scaling is actually NOT a necessity, and size doesn’t coincide with success or profit! In fact, it’s quite the opposite. So we all must ask ourselves, “Should I scale the business, stay where we’re at, or stop this business ownership altogether?”

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Agency leadership is innately fraught with hardship and challenges, so having a strong foundational WHY behind everything you do is what will pull you through those hard days.
Growing your business to be the BIGGEST isn’t always the way to go- in fact, growth purely for the sake of growth is one of the fastest ways to kill your joy, culture, and bank account.
Get mentors! Bring in outside people. Whether that means hiring someone you trust to break down the financial side of things for you or having a group of peers (like this podcast!) that can speak to your pain points and expose them alongside you- it is VITAL to allow yourself to hear and receive feedback in areas that aren’t your expertise.

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[1:47] Ken: Oftentimes, people fall into agency ownership. “If you're a plumber, you’re not going to fall into being a plumber, it’s laid out for you.”
- You’ll be searching for freedom at first then fall into ownership.
- Brad: You fall in love with the craft, and either you’re good or you aren’t. And as you try to make a life of it, the process of growth and longevity become the true.
[3:03] Bob introduces the topic: How, Why, and Should you Scale your Business?
- Cultural default is growing to be the biggest and the best.
- Knowing your limitations and motivations changes the way you go into ownership.
[3:53] Bob’s mindset was to create a life worth living & that he wanted to live outside of work. So he wanted to create a boutique agency, keep it smaller and be a thought leader in the space & serve clients well.
- “My motivation was always to be a thought leader in a space, to serve my clients well, and to fund what was most important to me.”
[5:00] Ken adds that that level of self-awareness is rare in this space- understanding why you’re doing what you’re doing and making sure that THAT is at the core of what pulls you through the business growth process. This goes against the idea that entrepreneurship and massive influence is the goal for everyone.
[6:16] “The grass is always greener” mentality is pervasive “It’s greener if I can grow it that way.”
- The REASON for all of this is so important.
[7:10] Brad speaks on business ownership as a young person. It includes being able to support your family and the pressure of keeping that stability underneath them.
- Brad went into business without a long-term exit strategy. Some people start with that in mind. It’s important to know what you want, even if it’s not an exit strategy per se.
- Your company should serve you as well as those who work within it- defining it early on is great and important but also knowing yourself and finding your Why is just as important.
[9:23] Bob: Starting a biz when you’re in your early 20’s compared to your early 40’s is very different.
[10:15] Brad: Starting biz means that as you grow there will have to be casualties in other parts of your life. Young people in biz don’t often realize that. The reality of humanity in business is that there will be sacrifices you have to make, choices you have to make.
[10:57] Ken: Speaks on knowing what you’re best at and staying in that wheelhouse. Culturally, we put certain personality types on a pedestal, but truly we need all types and all wheelhouses in a business.
- “There is danger in having people in leadership roles who don’t need to be leaders, who aren’t aware of their limitations and strengths.”
- There are things you’ll HAVE to be good at in order to succeed in business. Some will enjoy that process, others will not.
[13:00] Bob speaks on leadership skills, “I believe leadership skills can be developed, 100%.”
[13:15] Brad says that leadership has to be INTENTIONAL about learning and growing. The more you can pick it apart and figure out where you can grow, the better.
- “They say the best leaders are spending 25% of their time learning and growing themselves.”
[14:15] Ken: There is danger in doing something because you believe it’s what you should be doing- it’s a trend.
- Headcount is a status symbol in agencies these days- falling into the pressure of increasing headcount just to increase it
- Often what culture idolizes is wrong, and that reflects in business
[17:15] Brad speaks on how growing has taken more money, growth means more responsibilities and maintenance internally. Office culture is challenging to maintain as the company grows.
- When asking how your business is, everyone wants to talk about growth as a status symbol
[18:15] Brad: “Maybe the culture should be that it’s good to stay steady, produce great products, create great profit, and also have your company serve you and your employees well.”
[18:20] Bob: Positive Growth is a metric today for ecommerce, but other things are
- “What’s your motivation for having the business and what are you gonna do with it? This will trickle down in culture, and it can be destructive if you’re not careful.”
[19:56] Ken: “Those metrics are important. But they shouldn’t be how you measure your own success.”
[21:00] Brad speaks on capitalizing on growth- “Looking at why you want to grow reveals a fear; that a client may leave, even for reasons that have nothing to do with you, and you always want to make sure you can support your staff… so that you don’t lose resources… that are part of your awesome culture. Businesses run on people, and they take a long time to grow and build into your business. I need to always have a ‘new business’ mentality.”
[22:48] Ken iterates: “Your business needs to be healthy, regardless of size, and it needs to innovate. These are requirements, and then you have the choice of goals and THEN the questions of should you be scaling really comes into play. You can not scale and still be healthy and innovating.”
- You want to tailor your growth plan to your own agency, and understand that your portfolio of clients is as even as possible, so that you're never relying totally on one client to support you.
[25:30] Bob asks if it’s a value to bring in someone that can help you understand scaling.
- There is great value in having conversations with third party people and outsiders to think through the health of your culture and your business.
[28:13] Ken speaks on large shifts at Metacake: “I hired a friend who came in and started asking questions… that I’d never thought of before. Are you tracking time? How do you categorize your expenses?”
- It created awareness around what is accepted as status quo in the agency world but is very dysfunctional in the rest of the world.
[30:00] It’s important to bring in third-party perspectives because sometimes you need that outside opinion to be further away from the heart of the business. It’s important because when you have someone giving you advice that you know you can trust, you begin to have the confidence to be YOU.
[31:00] Ken: “Someone once told me that comparison is the enemy of joy. And that’s so true in life and in business… If you’re leading a business, you might see others and they look so cool from the outside… but turns out they all struggle with the same things. They’re NOT cool, and they’ve got the same problems, maybe even bigger problems. So don’t just do something because you see it and you think you should. For me, outside advice has given me the confidence to be who we were made to be and do it really well.”
[32:00] Bob: “Finding your own individuality, and your own agency collectively who you are as a team is so important because you can try to imitate and learn best practices, but… Ken you’re always saying you can be the cheapest, the only, or the best. You need to choose which one you want to be because those are the only ways you’re going to scale and grow and be successful as a business.”
[33:45] Brad: Part of the growth that agency owners go through requires asking for extra help and guidance. It’s important in making the correct decisions, learning to let your guard down at first and jump over that fear of admitting that you don’t know everything.
[35:42] Bob: How do you know if you’re really ready to start a business?
[36:30] Ken: “I think being self-aware and confident enough to say ‘Hey here’s what I’m best at. Maybe I should be scaling this. Maybe we should be staying right where we’re at, or maybe this is not for me.”
[37:03] Brad asks Ken: “Would you do it over again, knowing what you know now, would this be the right type of business?”
[37:15] Ken responds: “I have this abstract feeling that I should be maximizing talents… whatever talents I’m given, I should be doing the most with that… and that’s what drives me. I’m excited to get up and chase that.”
[40:20] Bob speaks on the manifestation movement in the last 10-15 years. “Visualizing success, for athletes… works very well. If that was the key to their success, that would be one thing… People think you just get clients and hire smart people, make a ton of money and get on Forbes… dreaming and visualizing is healthy for that athlete but he’s also conditioning all day every day… that work they’re putting in is more than just visualizing. None of them would ever say it was easy.”
[42:45] Ken: “I think business ownership or really doing anything at an excellent level, just being a great husband, wife, whatever, takes intentional conditioning over time… and the truth is, it’s hard work.”
[43:20] Brad talks about how the decision to start a business impacts others as well. Those that are doing life with you have to be bought in and supportive if you want to maintain healthy relationships with your family.
- Are those people supporting you knowing there WILL be hard times?
- You’ll bring some of that stress home, how will that impact them?
[45:00] Ken: All of this ties back into the question of why you’re doing it. “If you don’t like WHY you’re doing it, then all that stuff sounds insane.”
[46:00] Ken speaks on the health of your internal team- your income must serve not only you but your team. If your business can’t serve you and your team, if it can’t be self-serving in a way, then what’s the point of trying to effectively serve others?
[48:00] Bob brings the conversation back around to the love of business and the joy in ownership. “I am unemployable from the sense of- I can’t go to a corporate setting, sit in a desk, push paper all day long, check in at eight, and check out at 5… I would get fired in the first week. I have to be doing something creative, I have to be with people, I have to be having some sort of strategy and I have to be challenged every day. It’s a joy, and there are a lot of positive things to think about.”
[49:00] Ken: “It’s important to be aware that you’re not doing something because someone else says you should do it.”
[49:20] Brad: “I feel like I own a little bit more of my future, I determine if it sinks or floats… and so even though sometimes I don’t do well with the stress, I still love that flexibility to determine where i feel I need to go and what I want to do.”
- “I think that’s what makes me do what I do so well, that I have such a joy to work and feel an ownership to my clients’ products and services… I kind of live vicariously in my own business to other businesses that we serve.”
[51:07] Bob: “Those things are, if we’re honest, that creativity of creating something out of nothing and… to be a part of that, to be a catalyst for that, is a huge source of joy and satisfaction.”

View Details

Summary:

In today’s episode we break down how increased self-awareness has had a positive impact on the way we do business. But what does self-awareness really mean? With a plethora of personality tests available these days, there is little excuse for having low self-awareness. When you know your personality type, your strengths and weaknesses, you have a more accurate picture of how you can improve and grow. Today's episode discusses the pros and cons of self-awareness, how better understanding yourself leads to greater understanding of others, and how self-awareness can lead to greater, more lasting success in business and creating companies that have a positive impact on the world.

Resources Mentioned:

DISC Personality assessment: https://www.tonyrobbins.com/disc/
Riso-Hudson Enneagram Type Indicator Test: https://tests.enneagraminstitute.com/

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Having self-awareness is KEY to knowing your true strengths and weaknesses as well as what gives you energy versus what drains your energy.
Being aware of your personality type’s strengths and weaknesses allows you to be a better leader, a better parent, a better human! This makes you more effective and have more enjoyment. You have more empathy for others and it changes the reason that you do the things that you do, and gives you insight to the same for others in your life.
The more self-awareness you can have, the better and more impactful your company can be. “If this company became great when you’re unhealthy, imagine how great it could be when you are healthy!”

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[2:06] Ken reflects on last week’s episode with Hannah Paramore Breen, and speaks on how it ties into this week’s episode: “She even talked about the topic for today, her personality type and how personality types play into what you do and knowing how you’re made up helps you navigate business a little bit better.”

[2:27] Bob asks: “When you guys were starting out, do you all feel like you had a strong sense of self-awareness going in? How much did that play into your business?”

[2:41] Brad: “I think I had zero self-awareness, it felt like that anyways. I had awareness in my talent, but not who I was outside of my talent. That’s been the biggest struggle, and is something I think we all deal with… Every day I learn more and more about how I deal with people, and how I deal with stress, and things that I’m learning about myself. It’s hard to sometimes see things that are kind fo ugly about yourself… that’s the beauty, that you can make a change and work on things about yourself that are not positive to other people or your business or yourself.”

[3:44] Ken: “I would say when I was growing up I had no self-awareness or very little. God, the way he’s led my life... there were so many cliffs that I could have gone off… and if I didn’t it wasn’t because of me because I wasn’t self-aware… I did have personality traits that were advantageous for doing business…

…”But as I’ve become more self-aware it’s like reverse-engineering what’s good and also what’s bad and keeping that in place.”
Attending events and gaining more tools have allowed him to be more proactive in adjusting course and making decisions based on growth and self-improvement, but it all starts with self-awareness.

[5:35] Bob: “We need to define self awareness… the ability to look at why you do the things you do, why you see the world in the way that you do, without any attachment to it being right or wrong… it just IS… and then move forward in the best lane with that awareness?”

[7:17] Brad: “Sometimes I look at the things that I’m not and think… I don’t have that in me, that’s not how I’m built. And I spend a lot of time shaming myself with it, instead of trying to align myself with people who ARE that…”

[8:23] Ken speaks on how a lack of self awareness can make it seem like things are never working out in your favor, when really you’re walking into a wall over and over again, waiting for a different result that could come from some self-reflection and self-awareness.

[8:42] Bob: “The biggest problem [with a lack of self-awareness] is that you don’t understand why you see the world the way that you do, and so you think everyone sees the world the way you do.”

[9:18] Brad: “I always struggle because I find myself hitting walls a lot, and I wonder if I need to do hard things and get through it or am I just not the right person to be doing that? It’s just not in me, sometimes I feel like I can just overpower it, but I definitely get hit by that self-doubt a lot.”

Brad asks: “Do you guys feel like when you do that too many times, it's time to take a different road? It’s time to get away from that wall?”

[10:42] Bob and Brad ask Ken if this experience feels any differently with a business partner. In their businesses they wear many hats and have to do things they’re not good at naturally because it’s the only option. Does throwing an additional “boss” into the mix change that dynamic?

[13:05] Ken: “Bob Strachan is my business partner… and for us it works well. And I’ve looked at why because there’s always a downside, and an upside. There’s never a perfect scenario, right? We’re actually complete opposites… we’re literally the opposite on every personality test and I think that’s actually why it works- also I think it takes respect and humility. I think ego is a lot of times what gets in the way of most business partnerships. Everyone wants to be ‘The Guy’ for the reason of ego rather than what’s the best thing.

“It’s taken a while to get here for us, but we realized our giftings and sort of stay inside of those and so Bob is extremely personal...he gets energy out of being around people and caring, all to the nth degree… those are things I can do but they don’t give me energy… My personality is more geared towards visioning and growth and I have a passion that I can see and I can bring energy to the team by doing that. And it works, because it would wear me down to be doing everything, for sure.”

[15:17] Bob: “You hit on one thing that I ''ve been trying to keep in front of mind. What gives you energy versus what drains you or exhausts you? And I think we would be remiss if we were to say, ‘Don’t ever do things that drain you’ because in business, especially as agency owners, you’ve got to do the hard stuff. You’ve got to do the spreadsheets and the balance sheets and the things that I hate.”

[15:48] Brad: “I like those things.”

[15:49] Bob: “I know you do! But it drains me. However the point is that you should gravitate toward those things and be self-aware enough to say, ‘I don’t feel tired when I do this, in fact I get energized when I do it. It gives me creativity and motivates… be self-aware enough to note that and say ‘What is it about this? I need to be devoting my time and my energy to this. And the things that drain me, I need to surround myself with people that it does give them energy to do this.’ “

[18:34] Brad speaks on his own introversion and how sometimes he feels out of his own skin because of the social anxiety that impacts his business decisions.

“I think it makes you very prepared. Because it drains you, and it’s exhausting. And you have that anxiety. It’s like you work harder to show up.”

[19:35] Ken: “Personality is really more about what gives you energy than what you’re good at. Because you could be good at something that drains you. But that personality is more about positive and negative energy. I feel like there’s two categories of things- you have your strengths- the things that give you energy would be smart, would be strategically smart to align yourself with those things. And then there are OTHER things that are universally draining… that 1% of things that everyone hates, everyone hates to get up at 5am, so if you’re the guy that gets up at 5am you’ve got an advantage. You do those and you can do those with consistency and repetition. And all of a sudden the hard things become just how you operate and that’s how you operate at a high level.

[21:01] Brad: “So one thing which has been really helpful for me is I know that my energy level is great from like 8am till about noon, and I can run hard and do all the things that I’m not built to do but do them anyways. But after lunch if I’ve had to talk to a lot of people or really had to interact with people, I lose a lot of my energy because I’m drained… mentally I’m just spent.”

“And so what I do is I actually divide up my work and I do certain types of work… in the afternoons that actually fill me back up, not drain me more. That way, when I get home Im not so exhausted that I can’t even function and spend time with my family because I don’t want my family to get leftover Brad, right? Understanding yourself and actually putting boundaries, you can still do the things that drain you, but only during certain times of day.”

[23:01] Ken adds: “If there is one action item from this podcast it would be- be intentional about your schedule based on when you’re at your best.”

[24:15] Brad speaks about the Enneagram: “I’m an enneagram five, which is considered to be the investigator right, so I get completely in my head...there’s certain things that exhaust me and if I overthink and I think too much on something I can also get burnout where my brain just won’t shut off.”

In this way, it is even more important to recognize your limitations and strengths/weaknesses within your personality type, and use those things to your advantage.

[25:38] Ken asks: “Given a person of that type… is that something you have to be more aware of defending against? Overanalysis like that?”

[25:53] Brad: “Yes, overthinking. And once you’re aware of it, it’s… my silver bullet, but it can also be my kryptonite.”

Brad goes on to point out that this often gets in the way of being present in the moment and having good, soul-filling conversations. So blocking out periods of time to give him an extra cushion so he doesn’t have to feel so rushed would be very beneficial.

[27:32] Brad speaks on the power and importance of exercise with his personality type: “The thing about exercise is that it’s not just for my body, it’s for my head. It’s so that I’m thinking more about my body and not about things in my head.”

[27:54] Bob gives a quick synopsis of the Enneagram Personality test and how it differs from others.

Personality identification based on 9 personality types. It includes areas of growth for each personality type, and how they show up in the world based on stress and growth.
“It helps ME to know what your personality type is (as a co-worker, peer, boss, etc) so that I can not only engage with you but also know how to bring the best out of you and the best out of me.”

[28:40] Brad: “As an enneagram five, you know every type has their kryptonite, and mine is avarice. And I had to look it up, what the heck does avarice mean? And it means that I feel like I won’t have enough of something, typically its time or money… I realized everything I do all day is trying to maximize time so I can get everything done.”

Brad gives an example of how he plans things that he’s done before to be as efficient as possible. And while in some situations that’s a good thing, he’s also realized that it is a manifestation of anxiety.

[30:50] Brad continues: “That’s avarice… now that I have awareness of that I can be proactive and when I notice it, I think ‘What can I do differently’ and sometimes that’s just putting myself in the position that I don’t know what’s going to happen next, and that’s okay. And just allow things to happen as they do, and love that, and enjoy just being in the present, without having to care about what will happen tomorrow. Today has enough challenges of its own, why are we caring about the challenges of tomorrow, or the next day? It’s a constant anxiety that I’ve lived with my whole life and I’ve just never dealt with it. But now that I am, it’s hard. It’s hard work. But worth it.”

[31:55] Bob asks: “What about you Ken? What is your kryptonite?”

[31:57] Ken: “I’ve taken a lot of personality tests, and they all seem to align. On the enneagram I’m an 8 with a 9 wing. And 8 is ‘The Challenger’. And on the DISC test I’m a D-I, D-C, something like that… Enneagram 9 is the Peacemaker… The challenger is typically someone who is pushing forward and challenging things… there can be a dark side of that that...”

The dark side meaning getting into arguments with people for no reason, badgering someone as a test. Someone who enjoys a good argument and doesn’t run from it.

[34:00] Ken continues: “The benefit for me is that I get energy out of running after something, I enjoy figuring something out, I have this basic premise in my life that nothing is impossible. I don’t necessarily believe that I can do everything… but with the right resources you can… I really think that for a challenger, that dark side really depends on whether your intention is in the right place… Generally I’m pushing forward for what I believe is better for everybody. When I’m leading a team or my family… it’s not out of my ego. In the past it has been, when I was more immature.”

[35:31] Bob interjects: “Another quality of an 8 is that they root for the underdog, do you find that to be true for you?”

[35:36] Ken: “Yeah, I would say that that’s accurate for me. I’m also a 3, 1 point off, which is I like performing. Which is another part of my personality.”

[35:40] Brad: “My brother is an 8 and one thing about him is that he always wants to take care of everyone. And that’s kind of their main motivation, they really do care about everyone. Sometimes it’s a ‘my way or the highway’ kinda thing, but they do it because they want to protect their clan. And that’s an honorable thing- that’s a lot of responsibility.”

[36:15] Ken: “I tell my wife all the time, it doesn't always come across the same way, but I feel like I’m made to provide and protect… Those two words resonate with me and I’m not saying I’m best at them, but I’m driven by leading a charge for justice, for a better way, especially when there’s people that I care about inside of that. That leads me to do business, to be the best I can be in health. There are positive sides.”

Negative sides are frustration with lack of progress, which may not be obvious or measurable. That is his downside, that he gets frustrated with people’s lack of progress. But he holds himself to a high standard, and commits to his word. A 21-day fast earlier this year was bolstered by telling others what he was doing, and holding himself accountable in that way.

[39:10] Bob: “I’m an enneagram 7… the Optimist, the Visionary. It’s somebody who alwasy sees the glass half-full. Experiences are everything, as a visionary and a builder with an 8 wing, entrepreneurial spirit. Relationships and people skills are strong. I get energy from rooms full of people, and I don’t mind speaking in front of people.”

The dark side of that is that because the glass is half full, 7’s can run on that optimism without actually having gas in the tank. The kryptonite is not dealing with things as they happen.
“Part of self-awareness for me over the years has been to have awareness when something is bad, and just letting it be without having to spin it into something good. That can be destructive in business, not acknowledging that there’s something going on.”
“The enneagram tells you who you are when you’re healthy and who you are when you’re really stressed out, and to be able to recognize those things is valuable.”

[41:14] Bob continues: “In stress, the 7 goes to a 1, which is the perfectionist… so I know when I start getting frustrated with people… for not doing things right, I know I’m not in the right headspace.”

“In the direction of health, I go to a 5. When I’m healthy, i can be calm, I can sit and contemplate things. I can think through things rather than always running ahead for the next experience.”

[42:00] Ken asks: “What was it like for you guys before you were aware of these things, and after, in the context of being a leader? Because over the years, I get to interact with lots of leaders of big businesses, and things that are just viral. The ones that are aware of this stuff are able to lead a team that actually makes a positive impact on the world. The ones that are not aware often are the boss, not the leader, the guy that hurts people and doesn’t lead through example. Doesn’t know it, but they’re not full or healthy, and are actually doing a disservice to people. There is such a difference between a leader and a boss.”

[43:57] Bob: “The value of self-awareness isn’t just for yourself… because then you begin to see other people in the same light.”

There is power in being aware of the way that others are processing the world and their work, it allows you to slow yourself down if necessary, it allows you to show grace and mercy for others as well as yourself.
“With team members, with clients, I can stop expecting things from them that they shouldn’t be giving me, or they don’t have the capability to give… or at least I know their WHY.”

[45:30] Brad speaks on human complexity: “We’re all one number, but we’re all so different within that… I spent so much of my career thinking everyone should be every number, or thinking that we should all have all types of personalities… it’s putting too much on one human to do… I want to work with superhumans because for some reason I think I’m a superhuman… but the reality is… you think everyone’s an idiot but they’re just gifted in certain areas…”

[46:40] Ken speaks on the importance of understanding that a team is made of people with different strengths- that’s the beauty of it. Being aware of those and working together in those strengths (and weaknesses) is what makes being a part of a Team so great.

[47:11] Brad: Sometimes you find those gifts… later on. They start taking on other responsibilities and you realize their strengths lay somewhere else.... You have to be patient, #1, you have to SEE the value in it, #2, and then you have to #3, pour into that and grow it and encourage it in them”

It takes a certain kind of person with a keen eye to see that and say “How do we craft an environment and a team where everyone is using their gifts the best.”
“I want to make sure everyone in my organization FEELS at their best, that’s important to me. And it’s hard.”

[49:00] Ken: “Just being aware and valuing that is so much further down the road than others… it creates so much more success even if you think you’re not good at it. Just be AWARE of that.”

Everyone at Metacake takes the DISC test, standing for Decisive, Influential, Stable, and Cautious. “So now we all have tools to better understand one another.”
Even those who interview take the test, just so that they can get a snapshot of how they will integrate into the organization.
Learning how clients fall on this scale is also helpful.

[51:40] Bob: “Interpersonal relationships and conflicts, and getting the most out of employees… as well as asking how to engage with certain clients…” allows you to speak with clients in a better way. There is potential to eliminate a lot of stress and issues by attempting to identify their personality type.

[52:38] Brad: Speaks on having a client that asked a lot of questions and it appeared that he was attempting to find fault within the organization, but he was strong-willed and curious and an Enneagram 8. “And now that we’ve earned his trust, we are part of his clan. And he protects and defends us as a client.”

[53:37] Ken can relate: “Are you here to help or hurt me? That question has to be answered, but how you go about answering can be really different from person to person.”

[54:37] Brad: “Some people who are the toughest upfront end up being the people that care the most for you… they’re just trying to vet you and make sure you’re the real deal.”

[55:00] Bob speaks on the difference between Bill Gates and Steve Jobs. “From what we understand of his biography, really for most of his career Steve Jobs lacked a lot of self-awareness. He drove a lot of people away but made a great product.”

Compare that to Bill Gates, who is steady and consistent, he has made billions to give it away and make lasting changes for humanity. He has truly left the world a better place.

[56:50] Brad: “You can be in something and not be the best version of yourself and still grow a successful company.”
[57:19] Ken: “I would argue that the more you are aware and the better that you can be, how much better could that thing be? If this company became great when you’re unhealthy, imagine how great it could be when you are healthy and what it could do.”

View Details

Summary:

There are only 2 ways to gain wisdom: 1) learn from your own experiences and failures or 2) learn from the experiences of others. In this episode we discuss the reality of building and selling an agency with Hannah Paramore Breen, founder of Paramore Digital and author of Business Ownership- The Joy, The Pain, The Truth: A Survival Guide. This is a topic on the mind of any business leader. It’s something that’s often idealized, but rarely understood.

Resources Mentioned:

Business Ownership- The Joy, The Pain, The Truth: A Survival Guide by Hannah Paramore Breen

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Understand from the beginning that you’re building an asset that will help create a life that you want to live in the future. Run your business with the intention of building a healthy business that will provide the life you want!
As a business owner, the process of selling can be exhausting and emotional. The importance of relationships and mentors is more important in this season than ever.
If you’re a business owner, get a hobby! Something that will take up brain space and ensure that you have a life outside of the office- this work-life balance is absolutely necessary to mental health.

About Our Guest:

Hannah Paramore Breen: Former CEO of Paramore Digital, a digital agency she ran from 2002- 2016. Through the years she navigated the world of business ownership- including the highs and lows that inspire you to achieve and make you want to quit. Fast Company, Business Insider, The Wall Street Journal, Bloomberg business week, and the New York Times have all profiled Hannah’s candid, no-nonsense style and approach to leadership and the daily struggles that come with owning a high growth digital agency. She also has a 12.3 handicap on the golf course!

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[3:38] Bob asks Hannah: What was the motivation behind writing your new book?

“Adam Bryant wrote the foreword of the book, his first line… says there’s too much happy in business. And I agree with that…. It’s hard to get your peers to tell you the truth.”

[5:00] Hannah: “I feel like I have something to say, particularly to business owners who want to know what to do with what they’ve built, because that was my big question the last three years or so… have I become the limiting factor to the company?”

[7:33] Bob asks Hannah to speak on business being “a process of continual shedding”

The positive side of this shedding process is that eventually all owners begin to shed their responsibility and delegate to others, allowing growth to be broad instead of deep. This allows the company to be structured
The negative side of this shedding is that eventually you do transition away from direct 1-on-1 relationships with the staff and instead hand those roles over to managers and directors, etc.
“It took me a long time to learn the difference between a CEO and a President of the company… If I had found that President for my company in time, maybe I would have had an additional choice.”

[10:05] Bob asks: “In your book you discuss trying to find your #2 within the first 5 years- is that what you’re talking about here?”

Hannah: When you’re a business owner in any type of business round table, they always want to know what your exit plan is and who your number two is.
“When I got to the point that I knew I needed it (a President), it was hard to hire it because we had a legacy of promoting from within… to hire outside felt like that would be really disruptive to the culture of the company.”
Had she had a partner in this, the process would have been a lot less lonely.

[13:00] Ken asks: “Where did you go outside of your company, or could you go anywhere to find those peers?”

Hannah: “I had been in business for four years or so by the time I got an EO… that was good for me in a lot of ways.The good thing about EO is that it’s non competitive… the bad thing is that it’s non competitive,” meaning that while you can learn from people there, the lack of competition means learning is slower paced and not exact.

[14:35] Bob asks: “Being early in the digital agency space and seeing this whole world transform and being a part of it- What was it like engaging and interacting with generational differences?”

As the age gap between herself and the people she was hiring got wider and wider, “...there was just a huge disconnect… I cared about them as people, but I couldn’t take the time to get to know them at that many years in business… it’s hard on relationships and especially on the owner when you feel alone… you begin not to trust.”

[15:42] Hannah: “You begin to not trust your staff because you know that at that age, you’re a pit stop on their way to somewhere else and turnover is very hard on project work.”

[15:50] Ken asks: “It seems more often than not in the agency world or even maybe other service businesses as well… you might end up in business without wanting to be in business, is that right? And so you don’t have that ‘thing’ that pulls you through.”

[16:41] Hannah: “Exactly… people get into marketing or creative jobs because it seems like fun… a good place to start… and I do think in the agency world you have a lot more turnover. And the thing is… clients expect it.”

“I think that there’s also a lot of misconceptions on their side or just… wrong expectations on the employee’s sides that it will always be fun...they expect to continue their college years inside the business...there will come a point where it’s just work, man, it’s time to run a business.”

[18:35] Ken asks Hannah why she chose to start an agency

[18:52] Hannah: “I was a classical piano major in college. My dad was a preacher, and my mother was a housewife… I didn’t have any kind of career aspirations… I was just on the borderline when women took off in the 70’s… some things happened that sent me off on a different path. I worked a lot of soul-sucking jobs in my career… so I’ve never had a business class or a marketing course in my life.”

Eventually she was laid off in a large corporate restructuring and a headhunter offered her a job at Citysearch, an online city guide. She understood the company’s mission quickly and flourished there.

[20:36] “I loved that job and that job changed my life. And it was so early in the industry that you were just learning on warp speed every single day.”

She was with Citysearch for 3 years, and because her role there was high profile she had no problem getting other jobs- the difficulty was keeping them through the recession of the late 2000’s.

[22:35] Ken: “So would you say, the reason you got into your agency was because of the excitement and the freedom?”

The industry was inherently exciting because it was so new.
The process of finding a job that was sustainable that also offered her the freedom she wanted and allowed her to truly trust the people running the agencies- this lasted through 4 jobs. Meanwhile, she built contacts and knowledge in a niche market and was acutely aware of the holes in the market.

[23:30] “The core values of my company that I eventually wrote like three years in, they reflected so much of frustration from the industry.”

One of those things was 100% delivery on the promises made to clients. At the time, it was hard to get that result because “Traditional agencies had the clients, but they did not have the digital talent and they didn’t understand it… they couldn’t get good digital people to work for them because even if they grew digital to be 20% of their revenue, it was only 20% of their revenue. So it was always disrespected. It was given the short sheet… and you can’t get good talent to work for you like that… So that was the hole in the market that I saw. And so I really thought that I would consult for a while… but that frustrated me because I want to see the ideas finished.”

[25:00] “So I hired a project manager, and then I hired a developer, and I needed two, and then it’s over. Then you have a company.”

[28:30] Bob asks: “What was it like being a woman-owned digital agency starting back then?”

Hannah speaks on how natural it was. In the beginning she won “woman in the industry” awards but eventually stopped applying for them because “I don’t want anything in front of business owner… it offends me to be called a woman business owner. Anything else just lowers the bar… I wanted to just compete.”
She speaks on understanding the reality of being a “woman in the industry” but just never paid attention to it.

[31:00] Ken asks about the process of actually selling her business. “So from the outside, you start a business, you grow it to $5, $6 million, which is awesome. And you sell it. That looks awesome and exciting- and I guess a lot of people would idealize that. But talk about some of the ups and down in that?”

“In our industry that is so project-focused, it can be hard to find a place to celebrate… it felt the same selling the business. I sold it fast, I was not marketing it out. But in the back of my mind...I’d love to sell but I didn’t think it was possible.”

[32:30] Ken and Bob ask where that lack of belief came from.

“... because of the fact that it’s a project oriented industry and there aren’t any longterm contracts… so what’s the value? I couldn’t understand how to quantify that value… but there are strategic buyers out there.”
“I had a strategic buyer who… saw the value that I couldn’t see in the business… they wanted to be in Nashville, and wanted the diversity in their client base, and they needed digital talent.”
“Most of these deals fall apart… like in the last few weeks. It is extremely scary.”

[34:15] Bob: “Was that something that kept you up at night? Like… this is either a home run or it’s going to fall flat.”

Hannah: “Yes. Because you cannot do it in secret.”
Hannah speaks on the risks of letting other in on the process of selling. Bringing VP’s into the discussion leaves room for them to doubt your commitment to the business if the deal doesn’t go through.

[36:00] “You spend months going down that road to sell, which means that you are choosing to not engage in business development like you normally would… so your business development pipeline starts to dry up… everything makes you angry, you’re emotionally wrung out… it’s not fun anymore… If you have a vision for something else, if you have the opportunity to sell your business and make good money and good multiple on your business… it takes serious consideration at least.... Because there are very few times in your life that you have the opportunity to do a deal of that size… and in the kind of industry which changes so rapidly, your skillset can be antiquated.”

She met her buyer in December and the papers were signed the following November 31st. She had a 2-year workout process. Tip: Negotiate a shorter workout!

[38:14] Brad asks about the relationship with her staff and what their response was to her.

The process of deciding to sell, telling her staff, and then working out her tenure with the company was a challenging process. It took her 6 months to truly accept that the business was no longer hers after the papers were signed.
“Whether someone wants to work for new owners is the question.”

[43:00] Ken asks Hannah: “Are there any things you would do differently? What are the top 3?”

1: “I would work longer on understanding that I was building an asset that was supposed to enable my life… I didn’t have high enough expectations for that, so I gave everything to the business… If you are 35 years old and own business, when you are 45 years old, you’re going to feel differently about that business than you do now.”
You are GOING to want to spend your days differently, so make sure you’re building a business with that reality in mind and enable that life rather than keeping you sucked in.

[45:51] Ken reiterates 2 awesome points: “Number one, make sure you’re enjoying what you’re doing… we spend more than half our lives in business, so it has to be something you enjoy… And number two… you’ve got to build it so that it’s a smart business. It creates a profit. It’s built assets… so that ultimately, like you said, it can not only fulfill your destiny where you need to be but also everyone who works for you… this business has to be on the rails.”

[46:41] Hannah: “A lot of time the right reason for making decisions is a financial reason. The company needs to make profit.”

The most fun part of owning a business is watching people grow, along with watching your bank account grow. It’s necessary!

[48:00] Bob asks: What one thing could 60 year old Hannah tell 42 year old Hannah?

Hannah: “I was told that every agency owner should have a hobby that takes a lot of time, that’s expensive, and that’s preferably dangerous…. The danger meaning that it needs to be something that if you don’t concentrate on it absolutely to the exclusion of everything else, you can’t do it well.”
“I got a passion that made me impatient with overwork. You need to love this hobby so much that it makes you impatient to get out of the office because that creates the balance in your life because your business is going to take from you anyway. You’re going to spend a lot of time there, it’s going to get the best of your thought process. It’s going to get the best part of your time, and you have to have something that competes against that.”

[51:23] Bob asks: “What are the things you see… starting new digital agencies these days. What are some things that you’re seeing and want to advise them about?”

[52:02] Hannah: “The lack of business acumen… there’s no way in life that a 20 something year old is right around a business… young owners are too altruistic by nature and aren’t ready to navigate the waters you get into when you start doing real business… Lean into humility.”

[54:00] Ken mentions mentoring as a way to open yourself up to be the shortcut for new people in the industry.

“There’s two ways to gain wisdom, by other experiences or your own experiences. The normal way is to make your own mistakes, which is great… but the smarter way is to find other people who have done it and learn from them.”

[55:43] Hannah: “I’d love for my legacy to be to change the relationships between business owners so that we have a much more collaborative culture.”

[56:07] Bob adds: “That’s our dream. And I think… you’ve got to get beyond the business principles and you’ve got to be willing to and be vulnerable into the personal, the psychological, the emotional, because that is the emotional intelligence around business ownership.”

[1:06:55] Hannah: “... a strong spiritual foundation for me is a reason outside of what we see every day… we’re supposed to leave the world a better place. Accepting that you’re not going to have perfect balance in your life every day is a process… so you have to let go of your own expectations of what your life is supposed to be like and reframe that for yourself.”

It can be sad and even scary to think that your company will run just fine and even expand without you, but it’s also a really great thing. Because if you sell your company and it immediately fails, you haven’t built a very stable company.

View Details

Summary:

Bob Hutchins, Brad Ayres, and Ken Ott are talking about how to innovate, grow and serve fast-growing clients in an agency world that is both ever-changing and also static. Hyper-growth is idealized, but the truth is scale isn’t always good. You need healthy scale. How do you help businesses see the forest through the trees? How do you inspire some to think bigger? How do you get clients who are moving too fast to slow down and pay attention to what will create healthy growth? There is a delicate balance to establishing a strong, influential role with a client, regardless of the type of business they are in.

Resources Mentioned:

Blitzscaling: The Lightning-Fast Path to Building Massively Valuable Companies
https://www.anthemrepublic.com/- Brad’s Ad Agency
https://metacake.com/- Ken’s Ecommerce Agency
Metacake’s Ecommerce Growth YouTube Channel

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Serving fast-moving, viral clients means providing advice and guidance for them, creating an alignment with their leadership and encouraging healthy scale and growth from an “advisor” role. This takes slowing down and creating systems and processes, which takes experience.
When serving older, larger clients it is important to focus on innovating and making sure they understand that innovation is a requirement for growth.
Growth in your agency means those same things: innovation, systems, and processes.

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[1:26] Bob asks: "There's this new business model of failing fast and scaling quick and getting stuff out. It seems like the fastest wins. What does that mean for agencies who try to lead that charge?"

[1:56] Brad: “we do have clients that are over a hundred years old… they built such a strong legacy, but they can’t move as fast as they need to.”

Technology makes it hard for larger, older companies to keep up and pivot appropriately.

[2:49] “So they’re looking at acquiring companies who could scale faster.”

[3:17] “We can talk more about how, as an agency, how you can prepare your infrastructure, and your processes to move that quickly and to understand that things pivot. And sometimes that’s really hard.”

[3:39] Bob asks Ken: How have quick pivots and “failing fast” impacted Metacake and their clients?

[4:05] Ken: “We preach innovation to our clients because ultimately, that is something that is never urgent and always important.... Innovation needs to happen whether you’re a big company or a small company.”

“As an agency, you have to innovate and innovate quickly, and maybe even in the agency world more so than some of your clients because you’re in a world that is typically stagnant. There’s not a lot of innovation happening in that world.”

[5:34] Ken: “Just because other people are doing it [innovating] doesn’t mean you should be doing it NOW, but you should be doing it, you just have to figure out when.”

[6:46] “Just like people have personalities, agencies and businesses have personalities. Knowing what your strength is is important.”

“Are you good at coming behind a founder of a company that has a really giant vision and you’re really good at helping them get there?”

[7:30] Brad: “We have companies that we lead, and companies that we serve. The fear with companies that we serve is that we become a commodity… if we’re not leading and innovating they won’t work with us… and sometimes they’re just not a good fit.

[8:45] “Even those companies that don’t give you a seat at the table… maybe you can still add table value by indirectly giving them suggestions and helping them to ‘see the beach’.”

[9:05] Ken: “Even in a role of service… the way you avoid becoming a commodity is by being a really great advisor to them… We work with viral entrepreneurs as well as global brands. With those global brands they need to be led with innovation, with those viral entrepreneurs we want to advise wisely.”

[10:13] Brad speaks on having a strong understanding of your client and being aligned with them and an extension of their leadership.

[12:10] “How as an agency do you follow the culture of a client when they are averse to pivoting, change?”

[12:45] Ken “Even an industry that your agency doesn't have experience in, the reason that you’re brought on it because you do have a speciality in some other area… if you don’t have that, maybe you shouldn’t be there… but you should be able to use your specialty to push that innovation.”

[13:27] Bob: “I think a good agency… gets over those humps is with data.”

This day and age allows instant results and data that you can lead with. And if a decision maker chooses to not respect the data, there’s not much else you can do.

[14:30] Ken: “that implies that you’re investing in acquiring data… could mean getting experience outside of client work. Being in eCommerce, we have several product companies that we run the stores of and so we can learn from them.”

If you’re only always working in your speciality for someone else and don’t do things that let you test, then you don’t have that data to present that gives you an edge.

[15:56] Brad: “You’ve got to be open to agile testing…. You've got to be able to think outside of the box and

[28:00] Brad: “... one of our clients… only works his business plan 3 months out. That’s it. And what he told me is that he’s going to pivot if he has to… either you’re with him and you are running right beside that pivot, or you’re going to get left behind.”

[29:05] “In this case, this individual knows exactly where his business is going… and how does an agency support somebody like him that is running that fast?”

[30:15] Brad: “Some clients want to make money TODAY, and some… care about their market share and they want to be leaders in their market… they’ll have a technology that noone else has.”

[30:40] Bob: “How do you get your staff to see and to develop that mindset [of quick pivots and change] when they might be people who are creatives or they’re perfectionsists… that you need to function well.”

[31:45] Ken: “In this type of example where companies are moving fast and you as a founder may not even realize what their full vision is.”

In this case, when this is happening and they start failing fast, that can burn your team out. It de-motivates them.
So your job as the leader is to become the thermostat- regardless of how hot it gets on the outside, inside the temperature is all the same.

[34:50] Brad: “For us, #1, I think constantly talking about business practices with your team...allows them to go Okay there’s multiple ways to get a business off the ground.”

And #2, “If something does pivot where three months of your employees work goes out the door, it’s still being aware that for us, that’s still a win. Maybe not for the client, but for us, it’s a win.
“Showing them that our client now has made a jump and that somehow we were a part of that is always beneficial because that that work isn’t for nothing. That’s companies being successful.”

[36:00] So even if we do pivot, it’s all about communicating… that our goal is not just to serve a customer, it’s to see that customer’s objective met and their business objective met… trying to bring value to that leadership and have a seat at that table.”

[37:00] Bob asks: What do you guys feel like the value is for Agencies moving forward in the near future, in the next five years, 10 years? Because I think what we’re talking about is everybody's moving at the speed of light.

[37:43] Ken: “I think it’s experience and driving results… if you look at the trajectory, you’ve got agencies that were hired in to do everything and they were responsible for figuring out how to do this thing. Everything from strategy to implementation.”

Bringing those things in-house is becoming a better and better option for companies. “I think that if your strategy is purely implementation then your value is going to be challenged… the biggest benefit to having an outside agency is experience that you don’t have as a company.”
“The thing that no one else can rip off is your experience… so if that is valuable to somebody, that is the biggest barrier to entry.”

[41:00] Brad: “For us, learning to balance the bent towards perfectionism is a challenge… we want really high-end success and I think that’s why we’ve kept a lot of clients.”

But balancing the slow down that perfectionism brings with the speed necessary for quick pivots is the biggest challenge we try to manage.

[42:50] Bob reflects: “In the past, it was a liability (putting out a less-than-perfect product)... so now if you release something that is a little bit imperfect just to get it out there, you have more room to improve and shift the focus later on.”

The guys talk about the new Tesla truck and Elon Musk’s presentation. The idea of him testing the glass and it breaking during the presentation actually shows that he is human and that his ideas aren’t perfect. Everyone is aware of this, but he gets a pass because that is the standard he has set for himself. Quick but imperfect delivery.
Companies like Apple do not get a pass like this because they have already set the standards so high for themselves. They have a glitch during a presentation and suddenly it’s “Apple’s going downhill, they’re gonna fail.” They don’t get a pass for imperfect products at this point.
So the lesson here is if you’re gonna fail, fail fast, and be transparent about it.

[45:37] Brad: “What Elon Musk has done is he’s created a culture, not only with his company, but the brand and his loyalists that say ‘I’m going to be first, but you’re going to have to give a little time. Forgive me, cause we’re not going to hit it. You’re not going to hit a home run every time, but I’m going to get you on third base and then we’ll sneak in into homebase and we’ll get it fixed.”

[54:03] Ken: “Don’t blitz scale or innovate or feel like you have to be a high risk taker just for the sake of doing it because these other companies do it. What you really need to figure out is what is the why behind where they need to go and where you need to go.”

[55:50] Brad “Sometimes educating your client on the lifetimes values of your customers so that we’re no here just to make a dollar today, but we’re actually looking at the future of your lifetime value and going okay we’ll spend money right now to acquire a customer because we know that the lifetime value is X, and you’re going to make that up in a year from now.”

[57:40] Brad: “The customer needs to know that you’re running with them and you’re right next to or right beside them. Otherwise you don't’ have a seat at their table. And if you can’t get a seat at their table, it’s really hard to convince your clients to do anything.”

Blitzscaling: The Lightning-Fast Path to Building Massively Valuable Companies

View Details

Summary:

Bob Hutchins, Brad Ayres, and Ken Ott are back with Episode #3 of Agency Exposed! Today they’re talking about funding agency growth- both fiscally and psychologically as well. They break down how important it is to have your team on your side and be profitable. We discuss the difficulties of maintaining a long-term vision with your team as they complete short-term goals, and how keeping your team motivated makes a world of difference.

Resources Mentioned:

The 4 Disciplines of Execution Resource
The 3 Business Archetypes by Tony Robbins
https://www.anthemrepublic.com/- Brad’s Ad Agency
https://metacake.com/- Ken’s Ecommerce Agency
Metacake’s Ecommerce Growth YouTube Channel

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Fail Fast- When you make a mistake, learn to pivot quickly to an alternative solution.
Self-Capitalization means being highly profitable with your current income/clients. Get your financial health in check so that you can lead people with authority and vision.
As a business owner, it is YOUR responsibility to cast a vision of your company’s future, encourage your employees to believe in that vision, and give them certainty through it all.

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[1:45] The Guys Discuss the name Agency Exposed and what interested them most about going the Podcast

Ken: In the agency world, it’s common for people to struggle in silence. “I would have loved to have been able to hear other people talk freely about… pain points.”
Brad: Fail and Fail Fast- this will teach you more in the early years than anything else.
- “Your company can be disrupted overnight… and we need to be more open to change.”
Bob: “This is a biz of putting the best foot forward at all times.. This is what we’re selling… the other side of that coin is that you can easily take on that persona and thought process in your agency… it’s a facade. Talking about failures is what people are hungry for!”

[6:25] Brad: “Fail fast. Get back on your feet. And that’s where you learn and grow.”

Learning from others going through the same pains is the point of this podcast!

[10:47] Last episode The Guys discuss marketing your business and getting new clients, and this week they’re unpacking how to finance it all. What are they using to market and promote their businesses right now?

Ken: Facebook Ads are a heavy part of Metacake’s mechanism. At the end of the day, MC relies heavily on teaching and content. MC has a particular philosophy, and that’s what we teach.

[15:21] Brad: How much of your resources do you spend on new business?

MC is invested in a LOT of educational content- what are the mechanics of how this works for Metacake’s business model?

[18:55] The Guys discuss Social Proof and the value of that in today’s social media-fueled world.

In this space, it’s a challenge to get people to talk positively about you. The community tends to be tight-lipped about who they’re working with and what they’re working on. Ken likes to disrupt this tradition! Asking clients for testimonials, asking customers for reviews, etc.

[23:12] Bob asks Brad how Anthem uses his strengths in visual and creative aspects to make his agency memorable.

Strong case studies within different industries can be challenging but rewarding.
Highlighting these so that all companies can see themselves in the results, not just those in the same industry.
LinkedIn has been a focus to publish content and ideas- algorithm works better for your business because roughly 50% of people are seeing those results- much higher percentage than anywhere else.

[26:27] What specifically is Brad doing to use LinkedIn to the fullest?

Industry-specific blog posts, thought leader
Repurposing content from other platforms
Starting an ad campaign on LinkedIn soon- will update us on how that goes.

[28:12] Bob asks Ken how Metacake uses YouTube for content creation.

On YouTube you can get views for fractions of a cent if done well.
MC strategy: Videos as ads to interrupt the viewer’s experience- get them to remember your name.
Measure of success is seeing Google searches for Metacake; ultimately attempting to get Google Trends up- playing that game for name recognition.

[33:26] Discussing and even showing off your other specialities to clients is always a good idea- you don’t want to find out that your client is using another company for a service that you provide.

[37:30] “People make 80% of their buying decision before they talk to you.” - Bob Strachan, Sales Coach @ Metacake
There’s an idea that the only way that clients can get anything from their vendor is if they beat it out of them- flipping this mindset changes EVERYTHING.

[39:20] Brad talks about the 4 Disciplines and how it has impacted his daily work within Anthem Republic.

Making self-promotion a Goal through the 4 Disciplines has helped him to put his business in front of more of the right kind of people.
Don’t be afraid to look at what your company is doing already and bolstering those efforts.

[43:40] Talk about how you capitalize on your own business- how to take advantage of the funds you do have and what you have struggled with in terms of capitalizing.

Brad: How are we doing and how are we able to grow? Growth takes money “We can only grow as fast as we can have the funds and the means to do it.”
Current struggle is adding staff wisely as business grows “I don’t want to get access to money and not use it properly… I want the business to run on it’s own in a very healthy way… without that constant cash infusion via debt.”

[49:24] Ken shares the ways that Metacake has approached self-capitalization.

According to Tony Robbins: In a business, you’re 1 of 3 people: the entrepreneur, the artist, the manager- most agency owners are likely artists. Being aware of your place here and who else in your organization might be able to fill in for the rest.
Self-capitalization means looking at your profit margins. Ken hired a CFO consultant who helped direct MC through specifics of net profit of every project.

[54:51] Brad talks about Time Tracking, and how important that is in terms of keeping real track of how your time is being spent.

[55:57] Bob shares advice from his mentor

Weekly reports from your staff every Friday that list 5 goals achieved for the week, 5 goals in place for next week, their quarterly goals, etc.
This allows you to be in tune with your team in a more sustainable, growth-centered way and serves as a check-in for them to re-establish their purpose and overall objective in the business.

[59:11] Brad speaks on the challenges of being the sole business owner, and being responsible for the long-term vision of the company.

Using processes like weekly/quarterly goals that Bob mentioned will help every member of organization buy into long-term goals and have an eye on the horizon as they fight daily battles.

[1:03:09] Ken speaks on staying inspired for the sake of the team.

“The challenge is… casting that vision, believing in it, and giving them certainty through it.”
Basic human need of certainty is one of the things that any long-term thinker should consider when expecting support/agreement from a team.

[1:07:25] Brad speaks on allowing your team to understand the value of long-term goals/growth

“If I’m going to Mars, they need to see the value of why we’re going there. And they need to value that so deeply that they’re behind it 100%.”

[1:08:37] Ken talks about developing your own passion before expecting passion from your team.

What is your REASON for running your business.
“As long as your intentions are true… that can come through.”

View Details

Summary:

Bob Hutchins, Brad Ayres, and Ken Ott discuss the art and struggle of getting client feedback, giving client feedback, and receiving client feedback in an agency. As you peel back the layers there is so much under this seemingly simple task.

Resources Mentioned:

7 Ways To Build A Happy & Healthy Agency Culture
The (un)Agency Guide to Serving Clients
Grow Brands That Matter t-shirt
https://www.anthemrepublic.com/- Brad’s Ad Agency
https://metacake.com/- Ken’s Ecommerce Agency
Metacake’s Ecommerce Growth YouTube Channel

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Establishing mutual respect between yourself and your clients is so important for getting valuable feedback from them. Toxic, fear-based relationships DO NOT WORK!
Let go of your EGO! In order to truly create value from feedback, you have to be prepared to take hard truths and turn them into actionable improvements. Don’t let hurt feelings get in the way of true communication!
The ONE thing every client should know about motivating people- GRATITUDE. Unsolicited encouragement or positive feedback is the magic way to get waht you want. It will ultimately drive your team / agency to do better and work even harder.

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[1:21] Bob Asks: How do we solicit value and use client feedback reviews?

“Can be a real positive thing… learn what is going on in the client’s head and better improve your creativity and service that you deliver.”
“Can also be a very controversial thing… how far do you let clients be in control of that type of feedback? And do you have mutual feedback for client relationships?”

[2:24] Brad Ayres Responds

“I look at communication based on subtext more than what they’re saying… tone of voice, body language. 80% of communication is body language.”
What about when body language isn’t an option? “You talk to a client… on the phone, they’re bringing a lot of other stresses that have nothing to do with you, but they can take it out on you… the feedback loop is a difficult thing.”

[4:30] Ken discusses the importance of trust-building elements

between agency and clients/ client and customers. The traditional relationship is that it would be rude or disrespectful to ask a client for feedback- what are other perspectives of this relationship?

[6:00] Brad on asking clients for feedback: “The first thing they ask is ‘What would you like us to say about you?’”

“I know this sounds strange, but we actually write the quote…. And have them look at it and go, ‘Yeah that’s perfect, that’s what I would say,’ or they can tweak it if they want to… we’ve seen the best results because I feel like otherwise it’s an assignment that we’re giving them.”
“To get a quote, that’s more of a promotional thing. But to really get client feedback has been really difficult for us.”

[8:11] Brad: “What I’m trying to do all the time is trying to understand the temperature and pulse of our clients.”

As a very empathetic person, it is easy to have empathy for your clients, and for your client’s customers. Especially when building a marketing strategy for them!

[9:20] “...it’s a two way street and you want that mutual respect. And that’s really what is hard to build- this mutual trust where they’re giving back to the agency and giving feedback that is helpful.”

At the same time, you’re giving them something that is very valuable and transparency means discussing when things are not working well- like any balanced and healthy relationship, having that open communication is key to be effective.

[10:08] Ken: “The key thing that you said is relationship… it’s not easy to build all the time.”

“...we go to great lengths to produce work that is quality and successful… we’re super high attention to detail and have a lot of integrity and we expect those same things from our clients- not because it’s arbitrary, but because those are things that are important to get to those results that they need.”
You may run into clients who don’t agree, or don’t think it should be that way.
“The only way to get a great result out of a partnership is to have a good partnership, which comes from some sort of relationship- there needs to be mutual respect.”

[11:40] Brad: “I always go back to the Jerry Maguire quote- ‘Help me help you’... sometimes you feel like your client isn’t helping you. They’re actually not an advocate for you. They’re the adversary. And sometimes it can feel like…. Even your employees start feeling like… the client is the bad guy.”

The feeling of “they’re not happy, they’re never happy, they’ll never be happy” can be prevalent.

[12:30] Sometimes clients are difficult and you work with them for 6 months and reach a breaking point.

“All of a sudden something breaks where you start to make them look like superstars in their business internally and they start to switch… they become more trustworthy of you, all of a sudden they become a different person and they’re like ‘Wow we’re going through a tough spot and we didn’t even know when we first started working with you.’”
As an agency, you have gone through that tough spot with them and helped them through it and the trust begins to build. In this case, the question is “How far are you willing to go?”
How long do you keep working before you say enough is enough we can’t keep doing this, this client is a really bad fit for us- and when do you say okay let’s keep showing them love and working hard for this.

[14:00] Bob: “In my past… I’ll tell you what I did wrong… the degree to which you will put up with a difficult client is many times in direct proportion to the amount of money that client was paying us.”

“So if they’re a small to medium sized client, it’s easy to be like ‘I’m going to fire you,’ because it’s not worth the headache. If they’re 15, 20, 30% of your revenue for the year, you’re going to hesitate more.”
When you “stick it out” with a client for too long and allow them to enter into almost abusive relationships with your employees- that’s letting them stay for too long.
“What you’ve done is you’ve destroyed the relationship and trust of your employees- and that’s irreparable.”

[16:43] Ken discusses Metacake’s philosophy on difficult clients:

“We have a strict no bullying policy- we don’t allow that to go on, because there are people on the other side of this thing. We work to operate with utmost respect and we expect the same in return. And so… sometimes the way of serving everybody is by, in love, not allowing consistently rude and disrespectful behavior that is hurting your team to go on.”

[18:02] “One tip- I’m extremely big in working towards not making decisions based on fear. Fear-based decision making is the worst kind of decision making.”

[19:23] Brad: “I do find myself making decisions based on fear and fear of losing a client, fear of losing the ability to support our payroll, fear to support my personal income.”

“I think there’s a certain amount of fear that is healthy, but a lot of times I’ve lived in the unhealthy part… and I try to combat that.”

[20:15] Ken discusses conditioning yourself to not make decisions based on fear.

It’s a choice, it doesn’t just happen.

[21:15] Brad discusses the natural anxiety associated with determining how happy your client is- you are acutely aware of their expectations in regards to ROI.

1- are we making the clients money? Are we a value? Then #2, is the direct customer being taken care of? Are their needs being taken care of. Human vs human means true feedback without emotions getting in the way is nearly impossible.
“And so for me, it always brings a sense of anxiety when I don’t know- when I have no clarity and I feel I don’t have a strong feeling, I start getting anxious.”

[23:55] Bob speaks on creating false narratives for your client- “You’re trying to project your own thoughts into their head and say, ‘They must be feeling this’ and you begin to create narratives.”

“The other side of the coin is to be willing to say ‘how are we doing? Rate us, give us feedback, what are we doing wrong? What are we doing right? That can create a lot of anxiety depending on your personality type, because that can potentially hit your ego really hard, right? So the trick is… am I going to live out of our ego or are we going to live out of our soul?”
“A bad day for your ego is a really good day for your soul. So, I’m going to train myself to say ‘I’m going to ask them to be honest and transparent, even if it hurts,’”

[25:00] “One questions I always ask is how would you- if you were to hire us- what would you consider success a year from now? How would you define success. And 9 times out of 10, they will stop for a second and say that’s a really good question.”

This allows you to get honest feedback on hard expectations from your client, and also gives you the opportunity to address any unrealistic expectations.
Record this interaction, write it down- this helps to eliminate some of the unknown.

[29:00] Brad asks “What if you’re working with a marketing director and a CEO as well, but their visions are not aligned. Maybe you’ve worked with one for longer than the other… if you satisfy one, you’ll actually not be satisfying the other… who do you serve? Your bosses boss, when you have a rapport? Or do you serve your direct contact?”

[30:15] Ken: “As an agency owner, you don’t realize the level of responsibility that you might actually have…”

[31:06] Brad discusses “showing them the beach” meaning, show them the results that they’re both seeking so as to contrast their visions for them. Show them that they aren’t aligned and let them say ‘Yes this is my vision’ or ‘No this isn’t what I want’, let them connect those dots on their own.

[32:20] Bob asks “Do either of you guys have a process for getting client feedback? And if you do, how do you implement that feedback int productive ways within your organization?

[32:36] Ken: “We use a few different methods- a survey midway through that we try to get someone to fill out and then discuss in-person.”

Long-term engagements are relationships that are trying to get to a unified goal.
Discussing with clients that they have a responsibility to follow through, “We aren’t you and we can’t be you- we can only do our best to help you get there.”
By nature of a long-term engagement you don’t want feedback at the end, but throughout so that you can adjust for their success.
“You want that feedback, and then also you need to have your metrics for success that are mutually agreed upon.”

[36:00] Brad asks “What if you feel like your client doesn’t even value filling that out for you? Do you press hard into them and say ‘You need to fill this out, or do you finally just say, you know what, you’re just not going to be able to give us any feedback and therefore we can’t help you if there’s an issue.”

Ken: “...if you can frame it in a way that allows them to know that the feedback allows us to be better, to adjust and serve you better…”

[37:52] Bob stresses the importance of HOW you ask for feedback. “The Google review is a powerful way for you to let the world know what you think of our team and our company. This helps promote our unique business model, therefore, is priceless to us.”

This is putting the power back in their hands- it’s all in “the ask.”

[39:40] Ken talks about another strategy: “If you serve a higher purpose, you’re in a much greater position of strength. When you say, Okay this thing is not just here to generate some money, it’s here for a purpose and it’s fulfilling that purpose and we’re pursuing that purpose and that purpose is valuable and beneficial to the world… that helps on the fear-based side of things a lot and the strength side of things.”

Client video testimonials- are a weird concept that aren’t often very passionate and energetic.
“We talk about Growing Brands that Matter- what if we do a podcast-style video towards the end of the project when the relationship has been established. So you tell them ‘Your brand is a brand that matters, and it’s important. Let’s sit down and discuss that the purpose of it would be to help other people on the journey that you’re on.’”
Those mindset changes that allow them to open up and talk about their challenges and victories are invaluable.

[44:00] Brad: Having clients on your Podcast, in a video with you, they become a true cheerleader for your agency.

It builds a relationship that allows them to see past “I’m spending X amount of dollars on one X amount of return”, and instead see you as real people that really care about them and their brand.

[45:22] Bob on the psychology of internal/external reactions.

“If you have a client that you’re not happy with, they’re always complaining and giving you negative reviews or being a problem client- You’ve got to step back and instead of taking it personally, you have to realize… Nine times out of Ten they’re simply mirroring what’s going on in their own psyche. So whatever fear you have, remember… there’s a good chance that they’re just mirroring what’s going on inside of them and to be able to be present in the moment and… try to decipher what’s really going on.”
Getting to a point where you can look at a review and say “Am I mature enough and wise enough to say there’s something else going on here and I can’t take it personally.”
Being able to come before your team and say “Okay we got some really negative feedback, but here’s what I think it going on. We have to own this. But then there’s some other stuff that maybe is not really what’s going on with us.”

[47:45] Ken: “We can only control ourselves- what are we doing and going to do at an excellent level?”

Obviously we want to align our happiness AND the happiness of our clients- but that isn’t always the case. And in those situations, it isn’t our job as an agency to bring that person happiness. That’s not part of our job description. No one can make someone else happy. Ultimately you can only control what you can control and that is how you act and the work you produce. On those fronts, we run HARD for our clients.
“It takes the pressure off of you, it takes the anxiety and kind of egocentric side of it away when you realize that they are people, they have good days and they have bad days.” And it’s not always your job to make their day good!

[49:33] Bob asks: “Do you guys have a process to regularly sit down with your team or your staff and go through these reviews- positive or negative- do you sit down and process it? What’s the value for your whole team?”

Brad: “If it’s constructive feedback, that’s definitely something we want to do. Or if it’s feedback because you were all on a conference call with a client and she wasn’t very nice.”
We want to create an atmosphere that isn’t just a time for my team to bellyache and complain, or develop a negative sentiment around the client. We want to be intentionally constructive with helping our business AND their business.

[52:45] Brad gives clients a “bat phone” number, for use in emergencies when they feel like nobody on your team is hearing them. Allow them the opportunity to reach out so you can meet them halfway and get the communication going. Use your experience and people-reading skills to your advantage.

[55:23] Brad: “give people props- even if they’re doing what you expect, still give them props. Because what it does is it empowers them to do an even better job.”

[56:32] Ken: The ONE thing that magically can motivate people:

GRATITUDE. “When people give you unsolicited positive feedback, it can go so much farther than all the negative feedback.”
“As a leader, the way you motivate someone is not by only beating them down. That doesn’t help you get to where you want to be… Don’t hold back your frustrations and negative feedback, but balance it in a way that gets you to your goal… you need to give them positive feedback and tell them when they’re doing really, really great. Do more of this, do less of this, this was okay, but it can be done better.”

[59:00] Ken: “Think about when your clients give you gratefulness, how much more are you willing to go above and beyond.”

[1:00:05] Bob discusses being genuine: “The key I think is being genuine… look for opportunities to be genuine, to really be human and engaged and empathetic with your team member or your client.”

Model the way that you’d like for them to treat you and you will hopefully see that in return.

View Details

Summary:

Bob Hutchins, Brad Ayres, and Ken Ott discuss the practice of setting a purpose and direction for your agency this year. In a world where you’re always worrying about your clients, it’s important to take the time to be intentional about your own business.

Resources Mentioned:

https://www.anthemrepublic.com/- Brad’s Ad Agency
https://metacake.com/- Ken’s Ecommerce Agency
Metacake’s Ecommerce Growth YouTube Channel
Metacake’s 2020 Theme Team T-Shirt
The Big Leap by Gay Hendricks

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Ken’s word for 2020: GO. Go Public with your purpose, mission, and work. Be intentional with your purpose and share it - boldly!
Brad’s word for 2020: CLARITY. Gaining clarity about the 5-year snapshot of your agency and who you want to be is vital to long-term growth and success. In an industry that is being disrupted every day, gaining clarity on your services, value proposition, and mission and pivoting accordingly is a must.
Bob’s word(s) for 2020: TRANSFORMATION and LEAP. In keeping with the forward-thinking trajectory of this episode, Bob speaks on having the bravery to transform your business and take leaps into new territory.

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:52] What’s the 1 word that will be your focus in 2020? What word do you want to define YOU and your company this year?

Ken: “For me and for Metacake, our word is GO… the reason is that for us, we’ve been really good at creating concepts. We’re traditionally more reserved when it comes from shouting from the rooftops. 2019 was a big push towards syndicating our message about our services that we provide… and now we’re boldly, publicly, talking about that message.”

[8:00] Going Public with Metacake’s unique purpose:

“The number with any business or anything you’re doing is to figure out the why and purpose behind it… when you do have that, you have true genuine raw human nature fire underneath what you’re doing… it allows you to enjoy what you do and push you through the hard times… money and success only fulfills you so much.”

[10:00] Go Public with Purpose means being intentional about your message regardless of the circumstances

“We’re talking to brands and trying to help them become healthier organizations and grow in healthy ways… Your ability to push through roadblocks is only relative to the why and the reason behind why you’re going public.”
“We have a purpose and our purpose is greater than just the services we provide…
“Helping those brands be just 1% better with their message, their mission, their success in a healthy way… has an exponential impact on the world in a positive way.”

[11:12] Metacake Store / 2020 T-Shirt

If you want to see our 2020 theme team shirt, you can check it out here: store.metacake.com

[15:35] Brad’s New Years word: Clarity

“We’re in an industry that is hyper-disrupted at this point. Two years is a lot of time for change.”
Brad speaks on the value of integrating new products and services with the next 5 years in mind, thinking about how to keep his company valid and current along with the changing industry. Getting Clarity on the long-term vision as the industry shifts.

[17:44] Bob Hutchins reflects on his past in running an agency and fighting the same mental battles.

“There’s a difference between goals and priorities… We can have goals for the new year, but those only go so far. If you don’t integrate them into your priorities for your business or don’t have clarity about what’s really important… Those goals just become another service that you perform. They don’t get integrated into who you are.”

[20:00] Ken on aligning your business with a purpose regardless of the business beginnings.

“Some of the struggles of being in an agency is that, without realizing it, you didn’t necessarily start it with a purpose or out of a need.”
When your USP (unique selling proposition) is based on services, the true scope for competition is decreased. But from a business strategy standpoint, having a mission and a vision and a purpose and capturing that passion with the way you run a business- this is the key to long-term, impactful success.

[22:45] Brad asks Ken what he does to measure the effective success of a yearly mantra or vision.

[23:50] “...it influences the actions and the vision and priority. Maybe not of everyone in the entire company, but certainly myself and the tip of the spear.”
“I have to be completely bought into the idea and have it come from a genuine place and that influences other people, but most likely my actions more than anything else.”
“In 2020 with greater intention, we’re going out and booking speaking engagements and conferences.”

[27:00] Bob speaks on how the mentality of the leader impacts the entire team.

“I think what you guys are talking about- Brad with clarity- as you push into that, you’ll see that with your team.”

[28:10] Bob references The Big Leap by Gay Hendrixson.

“The upper genius- what’s that ceiling that keeps you from breaking through? They get it, but then somehow sabotage it. He talks about how to leap and get over these things.”

[30:17] Bob’s words for the New Year: Leap and transformation

How do you stay in the transformation process continually while also making leaps and strides forward, always?
“Where do I need to be placing my skills and abilities?”

[31:45] Ken asks how Bob will make this happen in 2020.

“I can take those lessons of human personality and business and management and technology and… it’s a wide open universe to apply those kinds of things and explore and be willing to explore than in the leap when needed… not everyone has the freedom or luxury to do it and maybe it’s not about the highest paying gig but the most purposeful.”

[35:00] Sometimes taking a leap means a leap of faith- having the guts to leap and trust that the net will appear.

[36:25] On the importance of receiving advice and feedback:

“It’s important to get advice and feedback from people you trust.”

[40:00] Ken’s reflections on the true role of a leader

TD Jakes quote “As a leader your job is often to be crushed while being consistent.”
There is a delicate balance between the pressures of the outside world and the inner workings of a business. The leader has to be able to honestly portray risks when taking a Leap, but also fortify their team with confidence that they can lead properly and with enthusiasm about the risks and rewards of the Leap.

[45:00] Diving into transformation with confidence also means having the right team around you.

“Loyalty can be the best thing in an agency, but it can also be the worst thing in an agency. You’re an entity, and you’re only going to grow as an entity. You can grow all you want as a leader, but if people aren’t following then there’s no point.”

[48:09] Brad speaks on clarity

“For me, clarity comes with time to isolate myself, to be able to focus and get away from the day in, day out stuff. So part of my clarity is protecting my time so that I can get clarity, number one.”
Spending time alone to compare notes with yourself, take stock of ideas, and bounce ideas off of those that you trust means gaining clarity of your purpose, which then equips you to better lead your team and inform them of the reality of the work that they’re doing.

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Summary:

Bob Hutchins, Brad Ayres, and Ken Ott talk about (the struggle) of getting new business in episode #2 of Agency Exposed. They talk about their own pain points within their businesses, tools they can’t live without when it comes to new client acquisition, and maintaining balanced relationships with clients as a young agency.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Referrals are always going to be the most powerful customer acquisition tools- the Power of Word of Mouth.
No one client should make up too much of your overall revenue- work to balance out this trend in the early years of your business.
Long-term, deep business relationships will ALWAYS be your best advocates.

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:34] Bob on Getting New Business

“Reality of an agency owner is keeping enough biz in pipeline to keep up with overhead first of all, to keep your team busy, and ultimately to be profitable.”

[1:14] What are your specific pain points? Other than salespeople, what are other tools and methods you use to drum up business?

[1:43] Ken: Metacake is constantly trying and testing new ways to get business

Ultimately “building some sort of relationship at scale with people” where people associate you with expertise in your field. Create authority in their minds when they think of you.

[3:32] Brad: At Anthem, the difficulty is “Communicating to potential clients exactly what will benefit them.”

More services = more complexity when explaining what Anthem can do for any given potential client.

[6:25] From high level, what is the best way to get clients?

[6:50] Ken: Metacake has 3 main channels: cold leads, partners, & referrals.

Referrals are not good to rely on completely, they are not repeatable, scalable, and consistent. Instead create a sales ENGINE that can be maintained and kept up regularly, with a combination of all 3.

[10:29] Bob: Write a book!

And market the heck out of it. This will create a built-in lead mechanism thats perpetual long-term because someone is going to pass that book on to somebody.

[13:40] Brad: Take note of where your current or past clients found you- and follow up.

“I always look back at the clients we get and try to analyze where they first came from, where they first heard of us- I always ask them those questions… how they heard about us, what they thought about us, how that perspective changed after working with us…”

[14:18] Bob: Is there a tool in your tool box that you absolutely cannot do without? A tool that your business would be nothing without?

[14:35] Brad: Word of Mouth.

Be bold enough to start asking those questions! 1st person referrals are GOLD. Hubspot mentioned, link?

[15:35] Ken: Highest quality lead sources are referrals.

First you have to be really really good at something and being specialized.
Second, you have to be able to apply it to client’s needs. Use word of mouth to show off that proof. Speak, get on stage, market yourself and your knowledge.

[17:56] Bob: Create content about your work.

Press releases about projects you’ve launched will let the industry know what you’re doing. Those projects will be searchable online forever!

[18:56] Content Creation: How to do it, what types, how to use it

[19:10] Brad: Planting seeds of content creation along the way is a great way to sow seeds for the future.

Sometimes it might feel like a press release for a project is not worth it, but you may just be too close to the content to recognize the value.
Press releases aren’t really to get into the news, but to be juice for the Google algorithm. Do this often and the likelihood of someone coming across your content increases.
Doing more written articles that are being published on LinkedIn and other channels to drive traffic further. Articles aren’t necessarily about the work you’re doing, but maybe even about your client’s industry to draw new perspectives.
Getting a “seat at the table” in an industry that you specialize in gets you recognition and helps you promote yourself as a thought leader.

[25:09] Ken: Let’s talk RFP’s. (Requests for Proposal) Do you do these things and is it worth it?

[25:49] Brad: RFP’s come by word of mouth for Anthem, and usually we only take those.

Helps to compare cost/time expense vs reward/returns from that project.

[27:31] Bob: RFP model is at one end of spectrum, versus charging for a proposal.

“We will create an RFP and it will cost you. Value to you is that even if you don’t hire us, you can use our detailed plan to do it all yourself.”

[29:25] Ken: My #1 goal is financial independence.

From a business standpoint that means… having operating capital in the bank at any given time. We don’t want any 1 client to be so big that they dictate everything we do…so that we can make healthy decisions”

[30:40] Bob: As a young agency, how do you maintain healthy boundaries with clients without putting 1 above the others because they are paying your bills?

Ken: “No 1 client can be more than 10 percent of our revenue”
WHEN this does happen, it’s a challenge to intentionally increase revenue everywhere else and be aware of not allowing 1 client to dominate the work of every other.

[33:40] Brad: The way many agencies pop up:

Often freelancers start agencies with a big client that they use to create a business around. Adding new clients quickly becomes necessary, so they’re not in a compromised position if that big client becomes unhappy.

[38:00] What tool/s do you use to aid client management?

[38:33] Hubspot

Bob: Making your business your #1 client and changing your mindset around internal marketing is necessary to grow your business and get the clients that you want.
Ken: “Any business needs to grow its business and grow it’s brand.” Discusses blocking out time to work on internal marketing plans and building the business.
Brad: Uses Calendly to book meetings with clients or co-workers. Allows people to set up appointments based on your free time and schedules time to invest in biz dev.

[49:36] Bob’s #1: “Spend more time with your current/existing clients- take them to lunch and continuously educate them. Create case studies about other clients doing different things.”

[51:00] Brad: “Send existing clients a newsletter to let them know what we’re doing for other clients.” Discusses letting clients know that you’re experts in other services, let them know what you’re up to so that they don’t go somewhere else for a service that you offer!

[52:58] Ken on the Real Value of an Experienced Agency:

“Being able to tell clients ‘We know this works this way because we’ve done it here and here… maybe think about doing it this way?”
Be INTENTIONAL about flipping typical perspective that agencies only have 1 client and should be afraid to let clients know about others.

[54:00] The power of LinkedIn

Ken: “The percent of the population that is an ideal client… is extremely small. So finding those pockets of people… on these consumer-based social network would take forever… LinkedIn is a much smaller pool that’s much more specialized.”
Metacake FB strategy is brand building and brand recognition. Content there is created for those who are interested in starting their own business.

[58:35] Brad: What is your #1 thing for generating new clients

Bob: Build good relationships in person and online. Long-term and Deep relationships will be your biggest advocates.
Brad: “Serve someone well and if they change jobs or move, the odds of them bringing you into new biz is high.”
Ken: “Important but not urgent things that will make you successful include truly finding your voice and what you’re good at, then creating content through that, for the sake of telling the world your perspective on things… in terms of tactics, maintaining our high-quality partner network is 100% our focus… peers that always generate high-quality leads.”

View Details

Summary:

Bob Hutchins, Brad Ayres, and Ken Ott talk about their Marketing Superpowers in the very first episode of Agency Exposed! They share how they wound up in Nashville, discuss running your business based on your strengths and staying in your lane of expertise when it comes to working with new clients.

Top 3 Curtain Pulls in this episode:

Stay in your lane of expertise, play to your strengths and develop those to be the BEST at that thing.
Cultivate a mindset of ABUNDANCE (not scarcity) within your organization.
Creating internal processes are a NECESSITY for growth.

About The Guys:

Bob Hutchins: Founder of BuzzPlant, a digital agency that he ran from from 2000 -2017. He is also the author of 3 books. More on Bob:

Bob on LinkedIn
twitter.com/BobHutchins
instagram.com/bwhutchins
Bob on Facebook

Brad on LinkedIn
Anthem Republic
twitter.com/bradayres
instagram.com/therealbradayres
facebook.com/Bradayres

Ken on LinkedIn
Metacake - An Ecommerce Growth Team
Growth Rebel TV
twitter.com/iamKenOtt
instagram.com/iamKenOtt
facebook.com/iamKenOtt

Show Notes:

[0:20] - Brad Ayres shares about growing up in Detroit, what brought him to Nashville, and the origin of Anthem Republic.

“Helping companies really see who they are… define what their anthem is and to help get their employees, their constituents, and their customers behind it.”

[4:24] - Ken Ott tells us about his childhood in Queens and how the tough lessons he learned early on have informed the growth of Metacake and his passion for GROWTH in every aspect of life.

Metacake is an ECommerce Growth Team that offers expertise in 3 areas: Paid marketing, Site building (optimization), & Email marketing.

[12:00] - Bob Hutchins tells us about his early passion for technology, early days in Christian ministry and transition to entrepreneurship, moving to Nashville and 17+ years of agency experience.

[15:20] - Question #1: What is your Superpower?

These are things that are natural gifts/strengths that have helped in developing business/career and give you the opportunity to do something unique.

[17:30] - Ken loves GROWTH!

“I’m relentless and I seek it out… that’s part of the fiber of who we are as a company.”
Sharing ideas, pain points, and lessons learned with other agencies is something that has been frowned upon in the past. Metacake believes that collaboration and communication with companies that would typically be considered competition is a NECESSITY.

[20:07] Bob, Ken, & Brad talk about Transparency, Collaboration, and why entrepreneurs are drawn to the Greater Nashville area.

Open minded and more collaborative than other cities, where competition and a “we’re experts in everything” mindset.

[23:07] Brad talks about The Active Antagonist

“We always have to create an active antagonist, someone that’s gonna be against you. I’ve let that down here… The only person who is against me, is me. And my own limitations and the box I put myself in."

[23:34] Scarcity vs Abundance

[24:56] Bob asks: How much does the local/regional culture impact your mindset & the way you do business in a connected, international world?

Scarcity vs Abundance: The Guys discuss the importance of your Business/Living Culture and how it influences your Business Success
Often client expectations do not meet up with reality, so it’s important to be aware of how a client expects to communicate and work with you.

[33:21] How to say no when you feel out of your lane/expertise.

Metacake’s business evolution and client philosophy
Ken on options vs creating your own standards. “There are 3 basic business models, be the best, be the only one, or the cheapest.” Only 1 leads to lasting impact and high levels of expertise.

[39:00] Making yourself indispensable to your clients

Brad: “Make yourself indispensable and you’ll never be out of a job.”

[42:00] Is the customer "always right" in 2019?

[44:20] In order to be the best at what you do, internal/business health comes first.

Service does not mean servant!
The Guys discuss processes and policies within your business and how it impacts your long-term internal health. Processes help to remove your personality and emotions from the business atmosphere.
Brad: “Your business is run by processes, and people run the processes.”
Bob on the challenge of creating internal processes: “How do you provide an environment of freedom, creativity, and ultimately a beautiful product at the end for the client or service, whatever it may be.. That functions head and shoulders above what they have, and put restrictions on that.”

[52:29] The Guys wrap up by discussing strengths, weaknesses, and partnership.

“Rather than trying to work overtime on the things you’re really bad at to kinda get yourself even, work more on the things you’re really good at and become the best at those things. Be aware of what you’re not good at… but when you know you’re not the best, find other people that are.”

Agency Exposed Podcast: Recent Episodes

Bob Hutchins, Brad Ayres & Ken Ott

1: Don’t be afraid to talk to your competitors. They have skillsets that help your ability to reach bigger audiences.

2: “Always take the sale, then price yourself out it rather than saying no.” Say yes, then fall back on your connections within your network to help you execute things you could never do by yourself.

1- are we making the clients money? Are we a value? Then #2, is the direct customer being taken care of? Are their needs being taken care of. Human vs human means true feedback without emotions getting in the way is nearly impossible.