Siblings in Zion: Recent Episodes
Siblings in Zion
Ex-Mormon siblings Brother Dan and Sister Lisa discuss Mormonism, LDS culture, religiosity, atheism, mortality, personal growth & the examined life.
Is this the end?! In this season 5 finale, we discuss the decision to intensionally end the production of this podcast, reflect on why we started it, our current positions on faith and disbelief after these last 5 years, how doing this has changed our lives and our relationship to each other, and where we intend to go from here.
We also discuss the experience of watching the film ‘Heretic’ and how it was very different for both us, especially for Lisa as a former Sister Missionary.
To all the people who have listened to us, wherever you came from, however you came away from it - thank you.
Thank you especially to those who have reached out to us with messages of support, encouragement and gratitude, it has meant a great deal to us.
Until we meet again!
Love,
Brother Dan & Sister Lisa
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The siblings are joined by special return guest Brother Jordan to talk about the predatory organization (or cult) known as Twin Flames Universe, which claims that ‘You can have Harmonious Twin Flame Union if you choose to take the spiritual journey all the way to your natural destination of eternal love’ … also, make a lot of personal sacrifices and of course pay a bunch of money.
They discuss the leaders of the group, their manipulative tactics and schemes, the victims who have spoken out, comparisons with other modern cults like Scientology, NXIVM, and of course the LDS Church.
Escaping Twin Flames (Netflix) - https://www.netflix.com/watch/81658403
Desperately Seeking Soulmate - https://www.amazon.com/Desperately-Seeking-Soulmate-Escaping-Universe/dp/B0CG7C7N1C
’Twin Flames’ podcast - https://wondery.com/shows/twin-flames/
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The siblings discuss the documentary series ‘Love Has Won: The Cult of Mother God’, the cast of characters, their motivations, the grotesque circumstances of their leader’s demise, and the consequences of her absence. And of course they make comparisons to other religions, cults, and the rise of their female leaders in particular. They also discuss the spread of ideas through the internet, the concept of free will, and judgement of human actions.
Love Has Won - https://tinyurl.com/2p9fs844
The Way Down (Gwen Shamblin) - https://tinyurl.com/yc3rcah4
Lori Vallo - https://tinyurl.com/4wpmhtcc
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Sister Lisa shares the story and meaning of her first tattoo, an update on her feelings around her grad school experience, and her thoughts on reading ‘The Testaments’ by Margaret Atwood.
The siblings then discuss recent thoughts around death and the treatment of remains, and their potential preferences for their own bodies.
—
The Common Mormon: Papilio_polytes
The Testaments: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Testaments
From Here to Eternity: https://caitlindoughty.com/books/from-here-to-eternity/
Stiff: stiff.html
Six Feet Under: https://www.hbo.com/six-feet-under
‘Hell Together’: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bAysF5mJjM0
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Sister Lisa shares her struggles and thoughts on her grad school experience as she prepares to be a therapist, and how her religious past informs her approach and understanding of the system.
The siblings read some fascinating articles on tithing from the most recent issue of Liahona, and discuss how much they think about this whole Mormonism thing these days and how much they really need to talk about it going forward …
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Sister Lisa shares more eyebrow-raising notes from her BYU-Idaho classes. Dating, sexuality, gender and marriage roles, revelation, ’NCMO’, suppressing desire, boundaries, bogus statistics, terrible advice & more!
—
Christopher Columbus episode of Everywhere You Go is Bullsht*: http://tinyurl.com/ymnp8aw8
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Sister Lisa shares highlights from her notes taken during several classes at BYU-Idaho, including some real whoppers from ‘Prep for Temple Marriage’ that drive Brother Dan to bewilderment and the both of them to giggles.
The ExMo Candle Co. - https://exmocandles.com/
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Bonus material from our episode ‘Christian & Atheist Walk Into a Bar’ - Comparing Christian and Mormon hymns, the power of music and art in relation to faith in God, as well as a Christian perspective on Stoicism and the precariousness of interpreting the Bible.
Bonus points to those who have seen SLC Punk! - https://youtu.be/6qr-wDh95TM
Dan and Lisa welcome Brother Bryan, a Christian who was previously involved with the Four Square church and now associates with the Church of the Nazarene.
Bryan and Dan have had several fruitful discussions around Faith, Atheism, Christian denominations, biblical literalism, similarities and contrasts in their respective religious experiences, and have have found friendship and comradery in them. So, we gave him an open invite to have one of those discussions on the show. We also welcome our mutual friend Brother Armando, a former Christian who told his story on the previous episode ‘Confessions of a Former Shi**y Youth Pastor’.
We appreciate Bryan’s willingness to express his faith, his vulnerability in sharing his personal experience, and his willingness to recognize the shortcomings in religious organizations and inappropriate applications of personal beliefs. We hope anyone who cares to comment on our discussion will show the same courtesy and respect we show each other.
‘Instead of coming from the gratitude and the place of - God loves me, and taking that love and sharing that with other people, they beat them over the head with a Bible and say - God hates you! It’s terrible irony. And that breaks my heart more than anything’
—
Church_of_the_Nazarene
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For those who have already read or are quite familiar with the 'King Follett Discourse', this episode of our reading and commentary is abridged to contain less of the text read aloud. You can find the complete version previously published ...
In this episode the siblings read and comment on 'The King Follett Discourse', its theological significance, and its influence on Mormonism.
In April of 1844, Joseph Smith spoke to a crowd of many thousands (saints and detractors alike) and delivered what would be the most directly recorded public address of his life, and the last such address he would give before his death in June.
The sermon is also one of the most consequential and controversial in regards to the unique doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, as it contains the theology of man’s potential progression to Godhood, the origin of our Heavenly Father as a man and not an otherwise eternal entity, the council of Gods that planned this world and its salvation, the physical stature of those in the afterlife who died as children, and the eternal nature of matter and intelligence.
However, despite its significance and pedigree of record, it has never been canonized by the church and it seems many members are unaware of the event or the origin of these themes …
In this episode, we read the amalgamated text published by BYU Studies in its entirety and commentate throughout.
The King Follett Sermon (BYU Studies) - https://bit.ly/3H6VlYZ
LDS Church History Topics essay - https://bit.ly/3H4HPoG
1960s pamphlet version - B001L3RLPW
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In this episode the siblings read and comment on 'The King Follett Discourse', its theological significance, and its influence on Mormonism.
In April of 1844, Joseph Smith spoke to a crowd of many thousands (saints and detractors alike) and delivered what would be the most directly recorded public address of his life, and the last such address he would give before his death in June.
The sermon is also one of the most consequential and controversial in regards to the unique doctrine of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, as it contains the theology of man’s potential progression to Godhood, the origin of our Heavenly Father as a man and not an otherwise eternal entity, the council of Gods that planned this world and its salvation, the physical stature of those in the afterlife who died as children, and the eternal nature of matter and intelligence.
However, despite its significance and pedigree of record, it has never been canonized by the church and it seems many members are unaware of the event or the origin of these themes …
In this episode, we read the amalgamated text published by BYU Studies in its entirety and commentate throughout. For those who are already familiar with the sermon, or don’t have the patience to hear the entirety of a mid 19th century ‘prophet’ in fear of losing his power or his life (we can’t blame you), there will be an abridged version published as well.
The King Follett Sermon (BYU Studies) - https://bit.ly/3H6VlYZ
LDS Church History Topics essay - https://bit.ly/3H4HPoG
1960s pamphlet version - B001L3RLPW
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The siblings return to kick off Season 5! No plan, just going for it.
They talk about what is 'working for them', current events in Mormon world, 'Keep Sweet' and the FLDS, Book Reports!, how they've changed since starting this podcast, and how they will be approaching this season's content and schedule.
AP article on abuse in the LDS church - https://bit.ly/3dHuQNE
LDS donation - https://bit.ly/3SoI8gP
Columbia MTC closing - https://bit.ly/3BzIA5b
The Hero with a Thousand Faces - https://bit.ly/3S5RUVz
No Man Knows My History - https://bit.ly/3R3sLcv
Rm Brown - https://bit.ly/3DJ7y4P
Keep Sweet - https://www.netflix.com/title/81292539
Jon Heder on You Made it Weird! - https://youtu.be/H70ZXdIbC1I
Rina Sawayama: This Hell - https://youtu.be/ekauErew4Bs
Duncan Sheik: There's No Telling - https://youtu.be/IZL-XeZvv5k
Leave a review on Apple Podcasts - https://bit.ly/sizapple
Subscribe to SIZ on YouTube - https://bit.ly/sizyoutube
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The siblings return to kick off Season 5! No plan, just going for it.
They talk about what is 'working for them', current events in Mormon world, 'Keep Sweet' and the FLDS, Book Reports!, how they've changed since starting this podcast, and how they will be approaching this season's content and schedule.
AP article on abuse in the LDS church - https://bit.ly/3dHuQNE
LDS donation - https://bit.ly/3SoI8gP
Columbia MTC closing - https://bit.ly/3BzIA5b
The Hero with a Thousand Faces - https://bit.ly/3S5RUVz
No Man Knows My History - https://bit.ly/3R3sLcv
Rm Brown - https://bit.ly/3DJ7y4P
Keep Sweet - https://www.netflix.com/title/81292539
Jon Heder on You Made it Weird! - https://youtu.be/H70ZXdIbC1I
Rina Sawayama: This Hell - https://youtu.be/ekauErew4Bs
Duncan Sheik: There's No Telling - https://youtu.be/IZL-XeZvv5k
Leave a review on Apple Podcasts - https://bit.ly/sizapple
Subscribe to SIZ on YouTube - https://bit.ly/sizyoutube
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In this season’s finale, the siblings welcome special guest Brother Jordan to tell his story of converting to the LDS church at 18, going the Missionary Training Center twice, serving a mission in Buenos Aires where he was held at gunpoint multiple times and suffered from ‘Jeep Butt’, attended BYU for a year before finally deciding to stop playing the game, how he eventually befriended Brother Dan, and how they recently reconnected via the influence of ‘caps’!
This episode is also available entirely on video on YouTube - Check it out and subscribe for more - https://bit.ly/sizyoutube
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Sister Lisa concludes the journey of reading from her past as she shares exchanges between herself and the President of the Florida Jacksonville Mission, where she devoted 18 months to proselytize for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Stress, fear of failure, indoctrination, cognitive dissonance, rejection, judgement, repression, and 'love' ...
Lisa also has Brother Dan read a ridiculous document entitled 'The Fellowship of the Unashamed'.
This episode is also available entirely on video on YouTube - Check it out and subscribe for more - https://bit.ly/sizyoutube
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Sister Lisa concludes sharing excerpts from the many emails she sent to family and friends each 'Preparation Day' while she served a mission for the LDS church.
Training other missionaries, feelings of inadequacy, ‘dying’ a missionary death, explaining the mormon slang term ‘trunky’, and convincing herself that it all was worth it … somehow …
This episode is also available entirely on video on YouTube, complete with helpful (and funny) visual aids - Check it out and subscribe for more - https://bit.ly/sizyoutube
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Sister Lisa shares excerpts from the many emails she sent to family and friends each 'Preparation Day' while she served a mission for the LDS church. Stories of drunk men giving blessings, flat tires, slammed doors, cognitive dissonance, snake bites, and stalking the local Florida population.
This episode is also available entirely on video on YouTube, complete with helpful (and funny) visual aids - Check it out and subscribe for more - https://bit.ly/sizyoutube
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In this bonus episode you will hear a special presentation of the Latter-Day Lesbian podcast on which Brother Dan was a guest!
LDL is a podcast about an 'Ex-Mormon gay girl trying to figure out her life'. That girl is Shelly and her partner and co-host is Mary, a former evangelical christian. For more than three years Dan has been the audio producer for the show. In episode 108 (January 2021) he joined them to talk about how they ended up working together, his relationship with Mormonism past and present, navigating family relationships, and how he became known to their audience as 'Leave it in Dan'.
https://latterdaylesbian.org/
LDL on Apple Podcasts: https://apple.co/3Mp9z7l
LDL on Spotify: https://spoti.fi/3k5K9j1
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We return to Sister Lisa's journals as she shares from her time serving a mission in Jacksonville, Florida for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
Many companions, many breakdowns, many prayers, many letters, many tears. Much indoctrination ...
This episode is also available entirely on video on YouTube, complete with helpful (and funny) visual aids - Check it out and subscribe for more - https://bit.ly/sizyoutube
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In this episode, Brother Dan concludes in sharing his written ‘Shower Thoughts’ beyond Mormonism. This set of musings trend towards mortality, atheism, philosophy, religiosity, logical fallacies, nature, humanism, and the future.
‘Religion really is a further complication on top of something we don’t understand truly, but we as humans have a problem with that. We gotta explain it somehow. And for a lot of people the easiest answer is that there is a God who made me and that I am beholden to.
How could you believe in a god that created all that is, love him, and hate ANYTHING he created?’
This episode is also available entirely on video on YouTube, complete with helpful (and funny) visual aids - Check it out and subscribe for more - https://bit.ly/sizyoutube
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In this episode, it is Brother Dan’s turn to share his own writings - ‘Shower Thoughts’ you might call them. This set of musings came while studying The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, its history and doctrine, and contemplating its validity in the real world as well as its role in his life.
‘I want to study Joseph Smith because I want to know him, and understand how he got away with being ‘Joseph Smith, the prophet’. Because if I am ever around a Joe in my life, I want to know it before he knows me.’
This episode is also available entirely on video on YouTube, complete with helpful (and funny) visual aids - Check it out and subscribe for more - https://bit.ly/sizyoutube
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As we continue in Sister Lisa’s journals, we arrive at the Missionary Training Center in Provo, Utah - where young men and women encounter a kind of ‘indoctrination bootcamp’ before heading out for 1.5-2 years to spread 'the gospel' 24/7.
She shares her experience of acquiescing to the control over her life including her communications, reading materials, schedule, talking points, and especially her privacy.
This episode is also available entirely on video on YouTube, complete with helpful (and funny) visual aids - Check it out and subscribe for more - https://bit.ly/sizyoutube
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Sister Lisa continues her journey through the many journals she kept during her young life as a Mormon. She recalls her time at BYU-Idaho, the insulation it encouraged, her decision to leave and serve a mission for the church, and her first experience with the LDS temple endowment.
‘They have you surrounded on all sides, so you might as well surrender.’
This episode is also entirely on video! It is available on YouTube, complete with helpful (and funny) visual aids - Check it out and subscribe for more : https://bit.ly/sizyoutube
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The first in a series of episodes in which Sister Lisa presents entries from the many journals she kept during her young life, essentially documenting her indoctrination in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints. Girl’s summer camp, Personal Progress, Seminary, Father’s blessings, and the intervention that convinced her to go to BYU Idaho instead of following her intuition.
This episode is the first to be produced entirely on video! It is available on YouTube, complete with helpful (and funny) visual aids - Check it out and subscribe for more : https://youtu.be/u17uoQu6CN4
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Before the next season starts, the siblings present a bonus chat to get things rolling: What they’ve been reading, watching, thinking about … Talking their way through the cognitive reframing of Christmas traditions outside of religion, and a preview what’s ahead in Season 4!
Alan Watts 'The Book' - https://bit.ly/3GOxQkn
Freaks & Geeks - https://bit.ly/3GN5vLe
Undeclared - https://bit.ly/3se0zLw
Why We Sleep - https://bit.ly/32c04Gx
In this third season finale: the siblings use a random scripture generator to compare the text, tone, and perceived value of verses from the books of the Bible and the Mormon scriptures: The Book of Mormon, Doctrine & Covenants, and The Pearl of Great Price. Lisa also applies her Mormon missionary brain to provide the perception of the believer.
They also share some verses of scripture from outside of Christianity, and philosophies they find valuable without religion entirely.
They conclude with a preview of next season of the podcast, including Lisa’s old journals and path of indoctrination … Until we meet again!
Random Scriptureverse - https://randomscriptureverse.com
‘Meditations’, Marcus Aurelius - https://bit.ly/3CjXifg
The Bhagavad Gita - https://bit.ly/2VSfeOF
Buddhist Scriptures - https://bit.ly/3krYgQN
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The siblings conclude reading the Mormonism 101 article published by the LDS church which presents a series of ‘frequently asked questions’ and answers that leave a lot to be desired when it comes to honesty and candor.
Topics covered include: garments, polygamy, race relations, the location of the garden of eden, baptism for the dead, missionaries, and the word of wisdom …
Mormonism 101 Article - http://tiny.cc/lds101
Gospel Topic Essays - https://bit.ly/3skpo6d
The CES Letter - https://cesletter.org
Brigham Young on Polygamy - http://tiny.cc/byp
Spencer W. Kimball on ‘white & delightsome’ - https://bit.ly/2XkiVge
1949 Statement - https://bit.ly/3jOyLHG
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©2021 Siblings in Zion
An FAQ article was published by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints nearly a decade ago in an effort to help educate the news media and the curious public about their particular brand of Christianity.
This recently became the source of some hubbub around the unique Mormon teaching that faithful members may become gods of their own planets, and the church’s apparent denial of it … kind of. They choose their words carefully.
So, to be fair, the siblings start from the beginning of this article and read the questions as presented, the answers they chose to give, and discuss them and their accuracy from the Ex-Mormon perspective.
Mormonism 101 article - http://tiny.cc/lds101
‘Becoming Like God’ - https://bit.ly/3rLneMJ
Improvement Era 1919 - https://bit.ly/379LEGb
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After Armando’s interview (in the previous episode), Dan left the microphones on as they kept talking into the evening …
The nature of God, the possibility of alien visitation, virtual reality and simulations, evolution, gullibility, purpose, what makes other lifeforms special to humans or Gods & more in this bonus episode.
This conversation was brought to you by Tito’s™.
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In this episode, the siblings invite one of Brother Dan’s oldest friends to talk about being a former Pentecostal Christian and Youth Pastor.
Armando Santoyo discusses his connection to Dan over the last 20+ years, the faith he used to have, how he was converted to the Foursquare Church and groomed to be a leader, the challenges it presented to his friendship with Dan, the blessings and hardships it brought to his life, and the way he lives his life now that he has moved on.
These days, Armando is an aspiring stand-up comedian living in Oregon with his lovely wife Alisha and two awesome children - ultimately a much healthier and happier version of himself.
Aimee Semple McPherson and the Four Square Church - https://bit.ly/31qOyXr
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©2021 Siblings in Zion
The siblings convene for a mid-season check-in and catch-up!
They review the recent episode featuring their faithful Mormon sister and what they took away from it. Dan shares points of interest from his current reading of ‘American Crucifixion: The Murder of Joseph Smith’ and Lisa shares hers of ‘A Short History of Nearly Everything’ as well as the existential terror of ’The Handmaid’s Tale’.
They also read and react to a recent 'faith-promoting' article from the LDS magazine Liahona titled ‘Staying Strong When Loved Ones Leave the Church’. Appropriate, right? You can read a long here: http://tiny.cc/sizliahona
‘Why would you want to follow something that isn’t honest, real, or true?’ - Steven Hassan
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For the first time, Dan & Lisa are joined by the other sibling of the family - Lacey!
Lacey is still an active, believing member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, while Dan & Lisa are very much Ex-Mormons.
They discuss their experiences growing up in the faith, how their relationships have changed and improved as they have evolved and become more honest with each other, how Lacey has felt about her siblings leaving the religion, and why she chooses to stay.
They also discuss various topics of interest and controversy regarding the church - tithing, testimonies, temple work, death, the afterlife, Utah culture, sexual and religious taboos, church finances, family dynamics, being a single adult in a family oriented social structure, and more!
'We expect to see the day when we will not have to ask you for one dollar of donation for any purpose, except that which you volunteer to give of your own accord' - Joseph F. Smith - General Conference, April 1907 : https://bit.ly/3if9RSq
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In this special episode, the siblings ask each other a series of questions about their lives, their Mormon upbringing, and their self-reflection that they don't already know the answers to.
From 'Who is your favorite comedian' to 'Have you ever contemplated suicide?' - there's introspection, revelation, and laughs!
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In this bonus episode - after the discussion of 'A New Earth' and its concepts Lisa has some questions about attention, perception, emotional responses, acceptance, and making 'right' choices.
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The siblings discuss their reading of 'A New Earth' by Eckhart Tolle - author of 'The Power of Now', spiritual 'teacher', proponent of mindfulness, and friend of Oprah ...
They share the passages and ideas that made them say 'Hmm!' as well as those that made them say 'Hmmm ...'
They also talk about the industry of spirituality and self-help, and navigating this sort of literature with healthy skepticism.
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The siblings discuss common misconceptions and misattributions of atheism, especially from theists. Primarily they discuss the exemplary debate between renowned atheist Christopher Hitchens and christian apologist William Lane Craig, as well as the chapter entitled ‘Are Atheists Evil?’ in the short book ‘Letter to a Christian Nation’ by Sam Harris. They also present their own positions toward atheism after Mormonism.
Christopher Hitchens v. William Lane Craig - https://youtu.be/0tYm41hb48o (Many more great Hitchens debates will no doubt be suggested by YouTube - enjoy!)
Letter to a Christian Nation - http://tiny.cc/sizltacn
Epicurean Paradox - http://tiny.cc/sizepicurean
Russell’s Teapot - http://tiny.cc/sizteapot
What is Atheism? - http://tiny.cc/sizatheism
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In this third season premiere episode, the siblings discuss the recent documentaries on NXIVM: 'The Vow' and 'Seduced', the crimes of convicted leader Keith Raniere, and the parallels they draw with their experience inside and out of the The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints - especially Lisa's 18 months on a mission for the church and how she relates to the power dynamics as a woman with male leadership figures.
They also repeatedly mispronounce the name of Steven Hassen, author of 'Combatting Cult Mind Control'. Sorry, Steve.
'The Vow' on HBO - hbo.com/the-vow
'Seduced' on Starz - https://starz.tv/3ojNnlX
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In the second season finale: the siblings discuss passages and themes from the book 'The Universal Christ' by Richard Rohr. They compare this larger, more inclusive, more inviting and unifying view of the Christ with the one they grew up with, and those that seem to permeate the modern Christian population.
'If the overly personal (even sentimental) Jesus has shown itself to have severe limitations and problems, it is because this Jesus was also not universal. He became cozy and we lost the cosmic. History has clearly shown that worship of Jesus without worship of Christ invariably becomes a time- and culture-bound religion' - Richard Rohr
'I can't believe what you say, because I see what you do' - James Baldwin
Thank you for joining us this year. Talk to you in 2021! With love - Brother Dan & Sister Lisa
The Universal Christ by Richard Rohr: https://bit.ly/3lwu5YB
Latter-day Lesbian podcast - http://latterdaylesbian.org
Mormon Stories - Enjoying Christmas after a Mormon Faith Crisis - https://bit.ly/37YvrVJ
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The siblings read the first of Ezra Booth's letters, which were written following his short but notable membership in the LDS church in 1831. He was convinced of Joseph's prophetship after he witnessed what he considered a miraculous healing. However, after his expectations of further miraculous events and prophecies were unfulfilled, he quickly saw through the delusion he was under and sought to warn others of the deception he witnessed.
His story is an example of how one can find themselves needing to reluctantly but honestly face the facts and admit the truth of their misapprehension. This is unfortunately as relevant in our current political atmosphere as it was in the religious fervor of the 19th century.
This leads to a conversation about honesty, self-deception, cognitive dissonance, and the conundrum of attempting to live without lying. Sister Lisa provides examples she heard recently about the nature of lying, how more white matter in the brain can be an indication of ones ability to lie more effectively, and how honesty has become more important to her in her post-Mormon life.
'Mormonism Unvailed', Signature Books - https://bit.ly/2LS6jaC
Elsa Johnson's healing - https://bit.ly/2J3nGEa
Radiolab story 'Deception' - https://bit.ly/3mzC6tq
'Lying' by Sam Harris - https://samharris.org/books/lying/
Latter-day Lesbian podcast - http://latterdaylesbian.org
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The siblings check in to share what they are grateful for, some very nice messages sent in by listeners, thoughts on the election, the NXIVM cult documentary series 'The Vow', fear of strangers, and the progress Lisa has made in her existential crisis by decreasing anger, increasing acceptance, and 'choosing new prophets'.
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The siblings discuss their reading of 'The Denial of Death' by Ernest Becker; how it contradicts their old Mormon understanding of an eternal self and how it informs the realistic understanding of the immediate, natural, fearful, fascinating, transient life in a human body.
'This is the terror: to have emerged from nothing, to have a name, consciousness of self, deep inner feelings, an excruciating inner yearning for life and self-expression -- and with all this yet to die. What kind of deity would create such a complex and fancy worm food?'
The Denial of Death (paperback) : https://bit.ly/3rw0z92
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The siblings finally return ... with no agenda but to catch up. What have they been doing instead of making new episodes?
Answers include: watching the entire series of 'Lost', reading books like The Denial of Death, Mormonism Unvailed, and The Universal Christ (future episode material) ... experiencing multiple existential crises, dealing with family members learning of the show and completely butchering the message, dreading the upcoming election ... you know, basic stuff.
Richard Rohr on 'You Made it Weird with Pete Holmes' - http://youmadeitweird.nerdistind.libsynpro.com/richard-rohr-returns
The Denial of Death - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Denial_of_Death
Waking Up meditation app - https://www.wakingup.com/
(try 30 days free: https://dynamic.wakingup.com/redeemMonth/dfc2a4?optionValue=2)
The siblings discuss some of Sister Lisa’s favorite passages of ‘21 Lessons for the 21st Century’ by Yuval Noah Harari, author of ‘Sapiens’ and ‘Homo Deus’.
Subjects covered include: Technology evolution and data privacy, the pursuit of happiness, globalization, immigration, ethics before the Bible, monotheism, racism, and intellectual honesty.
‘I gather together the different threads and take a more general look at life in an age of bewilderment, when the old stories have collapsed, and no new story has emerged so far to replace them. Who are we? What should we do in life? What kinds of skills do we need? Given everything we know and don’t know about science, about God, about politics and about religion – what can we say about the meaning of life today?’ …
... ‘That’s everything I care about right there. I was hooked. After leaving Mormonism, those are pretty much all your questions’ - Sister Lisa
More from Yuval Noah Harari – https://www.ynharari.com/
‘Sentient World Simulation’ episode from Everywhere You Go is Bullsh*t podcast – https://bit.ly/3og1OqY
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They say the gospel is so simple that a child can understand it. Let us see how well Sister Lisa, former missionary for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints, having ingested marijuana drugs into her brains, can explain the timeline of events once Jesus returns and the real party begins: Resurrection!!
After attempting to lay out the trajectory of our promised life after this life from the Mormon perspective, the siblings take the opportunity to bear their testimonies of dropping the denial of death and the liberty in accepting the finite existence we have.
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With all this scariness in our current earthly existence, death might be on the brain a little more lately. But don't worry, you will live again! Also, you already lived before!
In this episode, the siblings intend to speak on the concept of resurrection and the Mormon teachings about it but end up being sidetracked into first talking about the unique take on what happened before we were born (Premortal Life) and what happens while we wait to finally get our body back (Spirit Prison and Spirit Paradise).
Along the way they touch on Adam & Eve in the garden, who were definitely real people in a real place, the Plan of Salvation and how participation in it is essentially a spiritual suicide, Judgement Day, ‘outer darkness’, and what it could possibly mean to have a ‘perfect body’.
Sister Lisa also shares an inspirational message from Tanner of Zelph on the Shelf about considering mortality after letting go of faith, and how she now views mortal life and conscious experience without religious prescription.
Join us next time for Part 2, when we’re all finally dead! YAYYYY!
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Heavenly Father, are you really there?
The siblings discuss the act of praying, the mechanics of a Mormon prayer, and interpreting results as God's answer or the outcome of probability.
They also discuss their experiences with prayer as believers, confronting the call to pray as non-believers, the seemingly nonsensical act of praying at all when God already knows all that will happen from beginning to end, and the concept of foreordination.
Sister Lisa also describes all the recent positivity in her life, with no help from prayer or tithing blessings, and how unfair it would be to take away from one's own accomplishments due to their efforts by attributing them to divine intervention or allowance.
Eventually, they veer into a debate on the point of the 'plan of salvation' and after getting pretty fired up, they end with the positive results of meditation and compassion for others, and introduce a new segment where they share a passage of uplifting prose that is not traditional scripture.
'The power of our prayers depends on us' - LDS Gospel Topic Essay on Prayer - https://bit.ly/2ZMoAgH
'It could have been worse' ... No, it was exactly as bad as it was ever going to be. - Brother Dan
'Meditations' by Marcus Aurelius :
Free - https://bit.ly/3DmQyNH
Best printed version - https://bit.ly/3DgjvLl
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To kick off season 2, Brother Dan and Sister Lisa discuss the experience of 'feeling the spirit', and how it is not exclusive to any religion or faith-based reward system.
Often referred to as The Holy Spirit in Christianity, Mormons like to call the third personage in the Godhead 'The Holy Ghost'. What's his story? How can he be everywhere we want him to be? If you don't feel his presence, what is wrong with you?!
They talk about how they have recognized the spirit both under the banner of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints as well as other 'holy' places, and especially in nature. How confirmation bias can confuse and distort one's search for that feeling. And ultimately, how one who no longer believes that it results from certain beliefs or behavior might recognize it in their lives.
The Holy Ghost ... he dwells!
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Theme Music: 'The Falls' by Umbrellaman - http://umbrellamanband.com
In this bonus episode, the siblings are reunited after Sister Lisa returns early from China (news of the coronavirus broke right after this was recorded).
Over some traditional Chinese Baijiu, they talk about her experience in China and Hong Kong, her reasons for returning early, being triggered by The Handmaid's Tale, reading The Universal Christ by Richard Rohr, and what's ahead for season 2 of our podcast.
Cheers! - SIZ
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Early in production of this season, we recorded a special addendum to shout-out some other Ex-Mo creators that have been influential in our journeys but, forgot to include it!
Today we thank them, and you. Check out the various links below. Talk to you next year!
Heart of the Matter: https://bit.ly/3EkTgoi
Mormon Stories: https://www.youtube.com/mormonstories
Zelph on the Shelf: https://www.youtube.com/ZelphOntheShelf
Naked Mormonism: https://nakedmormonismpodcast.com/
Latter-day Lesbian: http://latterdaylesbian.org
Dan Vogel: https://bit.ly/3ogJoGE
CES Letter: https://cesletter.org
In this first season finale, the siblings further examine the Word of Wisdom - a health code of sorts which was presented to the members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in 1833. Since then, parts of the WoW have been further elaborated and treated more or less as commandments (alcohol, tobacco, hot drinks), while others seem to be overlooked or ignored (meat used sparingly, barley for mild drinks, and wine of your own make). It has continually been a source of confusion for both members and non-members alike.
In August of 2019, an attempt at clarification was made in the church publication 'New Era', which is primarily aimed at the Mormon youth. This attempt only further muddied the waters. They elaborate in childish terms that coffee and tea are evil for some unspecified reason. But, with no mention of caffeine, soda and energy drinks are fine? Hot drinks are not for the body, but hot chocolate for all?! And apparently, prescribed marijuana use is acceptable ...
After examining all this, they wrap up with their thoughts on the first season of the show, how they are feeling about the church today, and what is in store for the future.
Brothers and Sisters, we thank thee for listening to our podcast. We shall return in early 2020 for another season of Siblings in Zion. Cheers!
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The siblings conclude their overview of the Mormon temple ceremonies with discussions on the 'prayer circle', 'sealings', and 'conversing through the veil' with 'signs and tokens' (secret handshakes). They watch and react to some of the videos of these ceremonies on YouTube and Lisa relates her own personal experiences of her many times participating in these very cult-like scenarios.
They also discuss the comparison between many of these ceremonies and those of the Masonic traditions, including the symbols on the Mormon garments (magic underwear) and some parts that have been changed such as the Five Points of Fellowship and the miming of one's own death as punishment for divulging the 'sacred, not secret' activities. They also watch the video that sent Dan on his journey to learn his way out of his church membership.
Also ... people pay 10% of their gross income to end up voluntarily going to the temple and raking the carpet ... because footprints ...
This episode is brought to you by Sailor Jerry's Spiced Rum and the Hokey Pokey.
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'I'm learning to be a less anxious person after leaving Mormonism'
Sister Lisa is indoctrinated into the cult of cannabis. The siblings discuss the conservative demonization of the substance, the attitude they have towards it now, how it truly affects them both, experimenting with conscious thought, dealing with mortality after leaving religion, and fear in general.
Philosophy of consciousness, the possible choice to exist or not exist, the choice to bring more life into the world, the concept of eternity, reincarnation, memories ...
They get far out, maaaaan! Not that far out ... but they do consider just how far out they may be willing to go ...
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The siblings discuss the 'sacred not secret' temple practice of Washing & Anointing, sister Lisa's personal experiences in the temple, the evolution of these practices over the lifetime of the LDS church - such as head to toe washing of water and olive oil to just a drop of each on the head. And then comes the 'Endowment of Power'...
We're talkin' ponchos, jumpsuits, temple dresses, aprons, silly hats, multiple versions of super boring and repetitive movies, healthy breasts and bowels and marrows, the ridiculousness of believing Adam & Eve were real, women giving priesthood blessings (what ?!) ...
Mormon trigger warning: you will hear recordings of the temple endowment ceremony ... and some loud laughter!
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Since the 1840s, the most common temple activity in which a Mormon person can participate is proxy baptism, or 'Baptism for the Dead'. Why do they do this? Good question. It's not as creepy as it may sound to the uninitiated, but it's still creepy.
In this episode, the siblings talk about their own experiences being baptized in the name of dead people over and over as adolescents, the significance of being baptized by their father, and feeling the 'spirit' while being dressed in white and surrounded by marble and gold.
The list of famous names who have been posthumously baptized into the LDS church may surprise you.
They also discuss the invasive questions asked of young people in 'worthiness interviews' before being allowed in the temple, examine arguments for and against the validity of such a practice from the biblical Christian and LDS perspectives, and preview the other weird activities that occur in the temple that will be covered further.
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In this special edition of the show, we present a condensed version of the two episodes of Dan's educational entertainment podcast The Fundamentals (now known as Everywhere You Go is Bullsh*t) in which Lisa was a guest, discussing Mormonism.
Lisa joins Brother Dan, Darren McCarthy & Martin Wallace to share her personal story of growing up in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, being baptized by her brother, attending BYU-Idaho, and serving a full-time mission for 18 months before eventually beginning to question the claims of Joseph Smith, the origins of the Book of Mormon, and the history of the church.
She also talks about the structure of missionary life bleeding over after she returned, her struggle to conform to the expectations of women in the church, some of the very weird things she used to believe, and the process of learning and accepting the incompatible truths that would lead her to resign her membership and seek a life of her choosing.
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Hear more episodes on a variety of interesting subjects from The Fundamentals, now known as Everywhere You Go is Bullsh*t: everywhereyougoisbullshit.com
It’s the end of the first recording session for the show, and the siblings have partaken of the sweet berry wines throughout the evening. So, they discuss their relationship with the things the church has prohibited and demonized through the Word of Wisdom (more on that in a future episode), the further interpretation of it over time, and the seemingly arbitrary adherence to it as written.
They note the hypocrisy of demonizing marijuana while swallowing prescription drugs and diet coke, virtue signaling in the congregations, and spill the tea on when they started swearing as kids and drinking caffeine … and worse!
They weigh the positives and negatives of alcohol use in particular, and the differences in the views of someone who is experienced and someone who is new to the experience. Dan describes the highest he has ever been ... in front of his Mother ...
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In June of 2019, Dan & Lisa met in Japan after being apart for about 10 months. Lisa had taken the opportunity to work as a teacher in China after her shelf began to break in order to contemplate the act of removing herself from the church. Before she came back, she wanted to spend time with the only person she knew who truly understood the struggle and they arranged to spend time in Japan before she returned home.
They recap their experience in Tokyo, Kyoto & Fukuoka; and express their love for the culture, food, temples, vending machines, metro system, musical toilets, Highballs, and the unusual quiet. Also, they walked their asses off.
Following that, they present a candid conversation recorded on the last night in Japan, just after deciding to produce this podcast. They discuss eternal progression, testimonies, faith before reason, seer stones (magic rocks), and burning garments (Mormon underwear).
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In this episode Dan and Lisa read their super special, verrry unique Patriarchal Blessings (also known as Mormon horoscopes) and dissect them into what is standard Mormon jargon, what is total BS, and what is likely influenced by knowledge provided to the patriarch beforehand. As you might expect, there are some differences between blessings and expectations for males and females.
They also hit some serious mental hurdles attempting to make any sense of what the pre-mortal life could possibly have been. What the hell is a spiritual body?!
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Welcome to Siblings in Zion! In this inaugural episode, Brother Dan & Sister Lisa introduce themselves and their intentions for this podcast. They were both born & raised in The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, ten years apart. Within the last year, both have found themselves officially resigned as members of record, and now officially apostates!
*Let us be clear: we are not 'anti-Mormon' and we do not accept this designation. We are opposed to bad ideas and the behaviors they facilitate.
Lisa is a returned missionary, and was much more devout than Dan ever was. After Dan avoided the topic of Mormonism for years on his educational entertainment podcast The Fundamentals (now known as Everywhere You Go is Bullsh*t), he finally decided to dive in and learned all about what he was really supposed to believe, just how much he did not know, and started asking Lisa about the major issues from a believer's perspective.
In this episode we talk about experiences of Mormon gossip, racism, superiority complexes, and the male childhood anxiety of knowing the pressure of serving a mission is building. They also spontaneously break out in hymns.
Website: siblingsinzion.com
Facebook: facebook.com/siblingsinzion
Instagram: instagram.com/siblingsinzion
Twitter: twitter.com/siblingsinzion
YouTube: https://bit.ly/sizyoutube
The Fundamentals (now Everywhere You Go is Bullsh*t): everywhereyougoisbullshit.com